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Regional Oral History Office University of The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California

Edwin Philip Pister

PRESERVING NATIVE FISHES AND THEIR ECOSYSTEMS: A PILGRIM’S PROGRESS, 1950S-PRESENT

Includes interviews with Roger Samuelsen and Steve Parmenter

Interviews conducted by Ann Lage in 2007-2008

Copyright © 2009 by The Regents of the University of California ii

Since 1954 the Regional Oral History Office has been interviewing leading participants in or well-placed witnesses to major events in the development of , the West, and the nation. Oral History is a method of collecting historical information through tape-recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. The tape recording is transcribed, lightly edited for continuity and clarity, and reviewed and corrected by the interviewee. The corrected manuscript is bound with photographs and illustrative materials and placed in The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley, and in other research collections for scholarly use. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account, offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is reflective, partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable.

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All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal agreement between The Regents of the University of California and E. Philip Pister dated May 21, 2008. The manuscript is thereby made available for research purposes. All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. No part of the manuscript may be quoted for publication without the written permission of the Director of The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley.

Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to the Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, Mail Code 6000, University of California, Berkeley, 94720-6000, and should include identification of the specific passages to be quoted, anticipated use of the passages, and identification of the user.

It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows:

Edwin Philip Pister, “Preserving Native Fishes and Their Ecosystems: A Pilgrim’s Progress, 1950s—Present,” an oral history conducted by Ann Lage in 2007-2008, Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, 2009.

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Phil Pister at Fish Slough in , November 2003 Photo by Kim Milliron

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PHIL PISTER ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Donors

Alpers, Tim Placzek, Celie* American Fisheries Society (CA/NV) Powell, Frank Anonymous Randolph, Marjorie Arabian, Gary Roeske, Sarah Baldwin, Frank Rowley, Anne Becker, Dawne Samuelsen, Garin Bickler, Phil Samuelsen, Jamie Bowler, Peter Samuelsen, Jeane* California Trout Samuelsen, Roger Chappell, Mark Samuelsen, Scott & Sharon Cheatham, Dan Sayles, Bob & Judy College of Natural Resources (UC Berkeley) Severinghaus, John Dahl, Bill Shaker, Jana Deinstadt, John & Virginia Smiley, John Desert Fishes Council Starkweather, David Desert Tortoise Council Stewart, Glenn Doyle-Jones, Vicki Stranko, Brian Epstein, William Taylor, Wendy* Ernst, Gary Travis, David Ingram, Stephen U. S. Fish & Wildlife Service Kelley, Barbara Valentine Eastern Sierra Reserve Kondolf, Matt Wehausen, John Lipp, Tom and Ulla White Mountain Research Station Magowan, Cathleen Wilson, James May, Richard Wingo, Maral* Milliron, Curtis & Kim Wong, Darrell Muir, Pauli* Yesavage, Jerome Papini, Barbara* Zeidwerg, Harvey Peirano, Lawrence E Pister, Karl P. Pister, Karl S. & Rita

* Mountain Mamas

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Discursive Table of Contents—Phil Pister

Interview History xv

Interview 1, September 24, 2007

Audio file 1 1 Family background: Father’s German immigrant family, to Central Valley from Illinois via Orange, California; Mother’s family in Central Valley since 1850—Growing up on small farm near Stockton during the Depression, giving migrant worker family housing on their farm, picking tomatoes during the war—Great grandmother’s strength and independence—Mother’s education at UC Berkeley and Santa Barbara, a classmate of Horace Albright at Cal—Parents both schoolteachers—Important influence of summer-long trips to Yosemite, camping, hiking out of Tuolumne Meadows, fishing—Discussion of environmental effects of planting trout in Sierra creeks—Park Service presence at Tuolumne, fellow campers from Stockton High— Summer backpack trips with brother Karl after World War II—Reflecting on Depression-era values, wartime rationing, the value of history and family—Grandmother’s and mother’s ties to Daughters of the Confederacy—Religious affiliations—World War II in Stockton, Japanese relocation.

Audio file 2 30 More on impact of World War II—Family political affiliations—High school teachers—Coming to Berkeley, discovering Starker Leopold and the major in wildlife conservation—Recalling Starker Leopold—Pister’s first reading of Aldo Leopold’s Sand County Almanac.

Interview 2, January 22, 2008

Audio file 3 40 Childhood and youth in Stockton, continued—High school during World War II, wartime sacrifices, arranging travel for basketball team, social life (a wallflower)—At Cal with returning veterans, noting resentment of veterans’ preferences—Wife Martha, a childhood friend—Karl’s and Phil’s interest in athletics—Bowles Hall resident, frugality—Academics at Cal, Professors Usinger, Needham, Hartman—Starker Leopold, his move to Mulford Hall—Meeting Roger Samuelsen, connections with Aquatics Research Lab and White Mountain Research Station—ROTC at Cal, medical discharge after jeep outing in storm—Wartime experiences of colleagues and others.

Audio file 4 61 Education at Berkeley, cont.: wildlife conservation major structured by Starker Leopold— Discussing the curriculum with Dean Alva Davis—Studying ecology, botany with Frank Pitelka, George Papenfuss, Lincoln Constance and others—Role of molecular biology vs. field work in wildlife conservation—Growth of awareness of issues of biodiversity and ecosystems— Presenting a paper on the Owens pupfish at 1972 meeting of AAAS, Nat Reed’s talk—Getting viii

chewed out by California Department of Fish and Game brass and going underground on biodiversity concerns to avoid scrutiny—Recalling fellow students at Berkeley, Ray Dasmann, Joel Hedgpeth—Working as grad student on the Convict Creek study, studying biology of high mountain lakes, interaction with fish population, impact of planting trout—Starting career with California Department of Fish and Game, 1953, Bishop—DFG job on , birth of Anne during flood of 1955, conducting salmon study pre-California Water Plan—Move back to Bishop, permanently—Elden Vestal and , DFG unwilling to get involved in Mono Lake, but Phil’s underground support for researchers at Mono Lake—1959: first contact with golden trout, and Governor Pat Brown’s horseback trip into Big Whitney Meadows.

Audio file 5 83 Studying the efficacy of aerial planting of fingerling rainbow trout in high mountain lakes— Fighting predilection of DFG, demand from recreationists, concerns of local business community in Bishop—Relationships with Bishop community—Education of wildlife resource managers from Humboldt State and Oregon State, contrast with Berkeley—Beginnings of Phil’s enlightening re rare and endangered species: first encounter, 1954, native cutthroat trout in White Mountains—Second encounter, early sixties, visit of Miller and Hubbs, and impact of finding the Owens pupfish—Other influences on Phil: Leopold, Rachel Carson, other reading—Building and preserving refuges for the pupfish at Fish Slough, the Owens Valley Native Fish Sanctuary: role of city of MWD, Roger Samuelsen and UC Natural Reserve system, land exchange to prevent development, 1980s—Transporting the last Owens pupfish in buckets, 1969.

Interview 3, January 23, 2008

Audio file 6 108 Early years at DFG, learning about the bureaucracy—Founding Sigma Xi at Humboldt State in 1956, Linus Pauling dedicated the chapter—More on salmon studies on North Coast rivers, studies of effect of logging on streams, arrested by game wardens for putting nets in the river— Explaining his territory on east side of Sierra, back to Pliocene, multidisciplinary nature of scientific research on these ecosystems—Learning of threat to Devils Hole in National Monument, 1967: plan to pump water for development—Marking changes in interests of fisheries biologists, publication of papers about non-commercial fish—Rereading of Sand County Almanac, 1964, another step in Phil’s reawakening—US Fish and Wildlife less subject to local economic pressures than DFG—Back to Devils Hole, and misgivings of DFG supervisors about Phil’s involvement.

Audio file 7 129 Economic forces behind the destruction of Devils Hole—Contact with Fish and Wildlife Commissioner Chuck Meacham, who formed Pupfish Task Force from multiple federal agencies, some at cross-purposes with others, legal committee interest—Developing the legal case with Dept of Justice, on a shoestring, testifying in court, 1972, to seek federal injunction against the State of Nevada, introducing the ethical perspective along with scientific testimony—Emotional impact of winning the appeal to US Supreme Court, 1976—Nature Conservancy purchase of lands, now Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge—Efforts to ix

reverse the Devils Hole pupfish’s diminishing population—Ongoing management of Owens pupfish—Discussion of Judeo-Christian ethics in relation to endangered species—Role of Bob Murphy at Death Valley NM—No easy fixes in conservation biology of an organism.

Audio file 8 150 Recalling antics at Bowles Hall, water bag contests, winning the Fred P. Lumbard Memorial Trophy, bonfires at Sather Gate, dating or not, going home to milk the cows—Founding the Desert Fishes Council, 1969, key accomplishment has been to bring academic scientists and agency biologists together—Founders and members of DFC, professors, grad students, agency biologists, public conservationists—Martin Litton, Bob Simmons, PR campaign, public attitudes—Endangered species, a question of enduring values, more an ethical than a biological issue—Lecturing and writing about environmental ethics—More on Desert Fishes Council, its territory in US and Mexico, meetings and proceedings, recovery teams, funding of projects— DFC research center in Coahuila, Mexico—Interest in the desert, a special kind of appreciation.

Interview 4, January 24, 2008

Audio file 9 174 Media attention to Devils Hole pupfish, 1970 NBC report—Increased funding from federal government for endangered species after 1973, nongame species group in DFG—Energy development issues in eastern Sierra: saving Rock Creek from diversion to Crowley Lake for LADWP power generation, 1950s, predecessor to Mono Lake battle—Benefits for Bishop and Owens Valley of LA land ownership in the valley, basically good land stewards—Sid Parratt, old-school DWP engineer, assists building the spawning channel for Pleasant Valley dam— Contrast with attitudes of more recent engineers—Thoughts on Colorado River dams and introduction of nonnative fishes for sport to detriment of native fishes—Crowley Lake a small- scale counterpart to Lakes Powell and Mead: native chub seen as competitors to recreational fish, nonnative trout—Pure v. hybridized species, and biological reasons to preserve unhybridized species.

Audio file 10 195 Rescuing fish in a drying Gorge, 1953, and return of the water in 1990s— Countering attempts to dam multiple east-side rivers, in heart of the recreational resource, for private hydroelectric power development, 1980, assessing cumulative impacts, making a case on ethical grounds as well as economic—Discussion of wife Martha’s health, and children’s education, professions, and upbringing—Geothermal energy development, concern about impact on Hot Creek Fish Hatchery—Negative impacts of alternative energy resource development.

Audio file 11 212 Association with photographer Galen Rowell—Surreptitious assistance to Mono Lake Committee—Long association with the golden trout, a beautiful fish native to southern Sierra— Discovering encroachment of brown trout in golden trout waters, Upper Plateau, 1969—Building a barrier and removing all fish above barrier, restocking the golden trout— Biologic and ethical objections to chemical poisoning of brown trout—Building additional x

barriers downstream, an engineering feat in the wilderness—Reactions to restocking the Sacramento suckers—More recent objections to chemical poisoning to maintain native fish— Early transplanting of golden trout by Sierra Club and others—Continued monitoring and restoration of overgrazed Kern Plateau area as part of .

Audio file 12 234 Politics of continued cattle grazing in Golden Trout Wilderness, improved range management— Anheuser-Busch, leaseholders on Kern Plateau—Mammoth County Water District and arsenic spraying of weeds in Twin Lakes, 1950-1960s—Water supply issues for development at Mammoth—difficulties and expense of saving endangered species, need for interagency cooperation—Bucking the DFG Brass to save the Lahontan cutthroat trout in Slinkard Creek— Distinction between a refugium and a refuge.

Interview 5, May 20, 2008

Audio file 13 249 The Department of Fish and Game: reorganization in the 1950s, Charles Brown, state senator— the department’s “hook and bullet” philosophy—Work on the North Coast to mitigate effects of state water project on salmon runs—More on golden trout field trip with Governor Pat Brown, catching brood stock for fish hatcheries, 1959, phone line for Chessman commutation— Directors of Fish and Game, value of coming up through the ranks v. political appointees— Reagan governorship, Secretary for Resources Livermore and conflicts with Ray Arnett as director of Fish and Game—Philosophical underpinnings of the Endangered Species Act, and an apt quote from Alfred Russel Wallace—Importance of legislation in battles to preserve species— More on the court case preserving Devils Hole desert pupfish, based on water rights law—More on getting in hot water with his response to Nat Reed’s speech on need for change in state fish and game agencies—Getting slapped down by department brass, going underground, receiving tacit support from immediate supervisors—Livermore’s successful opposition to Road, Arnett’s opposing viewpoints.

Audio file 14 276 Relationship with Ike Livermore, and Mule Days in Bishop—Vulgarity of Ray Arnett—Changes in DFG under Jerry Brown, appointment of Charlie Fullerton as director—Claire Dedrick on DFG Governor’s field trip—The Brass, and use of department plane—Ray Arnett’s apology, on occasion of Phil’s American Motors Conservation Award.

Interview 6, May 20, 2008. Interview with Phil Pister and Roger Samuelsen

Audio file 15 284 Phil relates story of the rediscovery of Owens pupfish and eventual outreach to UC for help in preserving Fish Slough, last remaining wetland in Owens Valley—Samuelsen’s involvement in establishment of Natural Reserve System—1970 meeting of NRS advisory group at Fish Slough, xi

complicated land ownership, threats to habitat—A thirteen-year struggle to acquire private lands in the habitat area, UC’s role—Funding and establishment of Natural Reserve System, Regent William Wilson’s role—Subdivision plans in habitat area, complex negotiations with owner/developers, their influence in the county and their motivation—Working with multiple federal agencies—UC’s role as facilitator in protection of the land and in development of cooperative agreement between the public agencies, now a participant on Joint Management Committee—Samuelsen’s background and development of interest in preserving natural areas, importance of faculty advisors Mildred Mathias, Ken Norris—Plan for an artificial reservoir for boating and fishing at Fish Slough—Changes in wildlife conservation and conservation biology education—Current problems in protecting Fish Slough habitat from competing species introduced by local fishermen, from tule overgrowth, and from cattle grazing—Laurance Rockefeller’s donation to Natural Reserve System for Fish Slough.

Audio file 16 308 Some history of the Sierra Nevada Aquatic Research Laboratory, Phil’s graduate research there, helping to build facilities, then the Convict Creek Experiment Station under the US Fish and Wildlife Service—Pister honeymoons at SNARL—UC Natural Reserve System takes over when Fish and Wildlife gives up the station, managed in conjunction with Valentine Reserve, land owned by LADWP—K-12 environmental field trips at SNARL—White Mountain Research Station, a UC multicampus research unit—Pister’s role as member of White Mountain station advisory committee—Natural Reserve System’s involvement with White Mountain, NRS mission to facilitate research as well as manage and preserve land—Background to the Samuelsen & Pister/Lewis & Clark connection—Pister as fisherman and teacher of fly fishing techniques.

Interview 7, May 21, 2008

Audio file 17 335 Continuing with discussion from Interview 5 of changes in DFG: importance of funding for preservation of endangered species in determining department priorities—Awards for Pister from American Fisheries Society, indicative of a broader perspective on fisheries sciences—The Resources Agency under Governor Jerry Brown—Working with Mexican counterparts—More on pack trips with DFG, Minaret Summit Road issue—Discussions with Forest Service on grazing in Golden Trout Wilderness, illustrating Aldo Leopold’s A/B dichotomy—An aside on Jerry Brown—the Fish and Game Commission, role in determining policy, recalling department pack trips with commissioners, a slideshow on the golden trout in the backcountry, women on the commission—Fish and Game under the Deukmejian administration—More on defying department managers over Slinkard Creek refuge—Department brass, using Beechcrafts as aerial limousines—Declining public interest in sport fishing, partly shift in California demographics— Phil’s own relationship to fishing, growing interest in catch-and-release practices—Studies on effects of planting fish.

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Audio file 18 365 Planting fish, cont., changing perspectives on and history of, Will Colby and the Sierra Club— Relation of amphibian depletion to planted trout in mountain lakes—Women and minorities in DFG, difficult to attract minorities, highly positive impact of women—Decision to retire from DFG in 1990—Lecturing and writing about environmental ethics and its application to conservation biology—Hargrove, Rolston, Callicott, environmental philosophers—Visiting Aldo Leopold’s Shack, member of Aldo Leopold Foundation—Materialism, the growth economy, capitalism, and need for change to preserve the ecosystem and endangered species—Global warming and endangered species.

Audio file 19 391 Where do humans fit in thinking about preserving endangered species and environmental ethics?—Population growth and environmental ethics—Enjoyment in teaching, teaching local natural history, Deepest Valley, teaching UC Extension field study classes—Work with Desert Fishes Council, editing Proceedings, recalling a 2003 conflict within the council regarding criticism of the Arizona Department of Game and Fish.

Interview 8, May 22, 2008

Audio file 20 405 Phil’s religious background—Involvement in Mormon church in Bishop, 1960s, becoming president of local unit, role as spiritual leader—Beginning to question tenets of Mormonism and leaving the church in 1990s, objecting to environmental and political views of Mormons in Congress and elsewhere, now an “optimistic agnostic”—Belief in man’s righteous, not exploitative, stewardship over nature—Interest in biogeography, defining “native”—Tecopa pupfish, first species removed from Endangered Species list because of extinction—California’s role in saving the Colorado River cutthroat trout, maintaining an unhybridized population in the Sierra since 1930s, replanting in Colorado in 1980s—Fish poisoning efforts, effects on aquatic insects—Story of Japanese fisherman from Manzanar camp and project to preserve that history.

Interview 9, June 23 and June 24, 2008

On site in the White Mountains and Owens Valley. Interview includes Steve Parmenter.

Audio file 21 431 Onsite at the Crooked Creek Laboratory, one of four high-altitude labs of the White Mountain Research Station, a multicampus research unit of the University of California: story of the building of the log cabin facility at Crooked Creek—Scott Samuelsen and the alternative energy project at White Mountain—Nearby refuge for Paiute cutthroat trout, Elden Vestal’s role— Recording visuals of Crooked Creek—Onsite at Fish Slough, with Steve Parmenter: story of carrying last remaining Owens pupfish in buckets to safe refuge in 1969—Article for Natural xiii

History on pupfish in a bucket—Construction of original refuge in Fish Slough, and subsequent changes in design to create a better habitat—Restrictions of Endangered Species Act and effects on management—Changes in DFG support for endangered species work—Looking at pupfish habitat at BLM Spring—Recalling Elden Vestal, DFG biologist with early concern about habitat and species preservation—Restoring BLM Spring, eliminating invasive vegetation, installing low-head fish barrier to eliminate bass from pupfish refuge with BLM funding—Future of the pupfish, concern with genetic diversity, need for continuing management—Dealing with the local human species: pupfish refuge a popular swimming hole—Role of Senator Hayakawa and wife, Marge, a native plant enthusiast, in effecting the land exchange to save Fish Slough and the endangered milk vetch.

Interview 10, June 24, 2008

Audio file 22 455 Discussing Phil’s office, World Headquarters—The influence of place on mindset: developing a feeling for protecting habitat and species while living in Owens Valley—The value of interagency cooperation in resource management—Recalling Norman Clyde, legendary mountaineer—Perspectives on the need to challenge authority—Representing the Department of Fish and Game in accepting an award at the Playboy Club.

Appendix—Photographs 473

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Interview History – Phil Pister

The idea for an oral history with Edwin Philip Pister originated with his High Sierra backpacking expedition co-leader, Roger Samuelsen. Roger and other expedition members had reveled in Phil’s campfire stories of his long career as a fishery biologist for the California Department of Fish and Game. Roger knew that Phil’s tales were not just entertaining but historically valuable, illuminating a profound shift in thinking about the environment and our relationship with our fellow species. When the Regional Oral History Office agreed that an oral history with Phil Pister would enhance its series on natural resources and the environment, Roger proceeded to develop funding for the project. The list of donors alone substantiates the breadth of Phil’s associations and the regard in which he is held.

The story of Phil Pister’s eight decades of immersion in California waters and fascination with aquatic wildlife begins in the 1930s with summer-long family camping trips to Tuolumne Meadows in , where he fished in Sierra streams and hiked with his father and older brother, Karl. It continues with his education in the immediate postwar years at UC Berkeley, where he enrolled in a new major, wildlife conservation. In 1949 Professor Starker Leopold brought to class the typescript of a soon-to-be-published book completed by his father shortly before his death, and Phil first read Aldo Leopold’s Sand County Almanac. Leopold’s thinking became a profound and lasting influence.

As a graduate student at Berkeley in aquatic biology, Pister worked for the US Fish and Wildlife Service at the Convict Creek research station on the east side of the Sierra Nevada, studying the ecology and biology of high mountain lakes. In 1953 he began his career with the California Department of Fish and Game. He secured an assignment in 1958 as an associate fishery biologist in Bishop, California, a position he held until his retirement in 1990. His territory included all of Mono County and south to the Kern County line and east to Nevada. As he describes it, “the lakes and streams and marshes and aquatic systems that were my responsibility went essentially from the top of at 14,496 feet . . . down to Badwater at the floor of Death Valley below sea level. And everything in between, biologically and politically, and everything else.”

The major theme of his oral history is the evolution of Phil’s thinking about biodiversity and ecosystem integrity and his efforts to protect endangered species and their habitats. Phil’s intellectual journey both reflected and helped shape shifting public and professional attitudes about species and habitat preservation. His oral history records the epiphany he experienced when he learned that the two-inch-long pupfish, native to his home territory of Owens Valley and long thought to be extinct, were still surviving in Fish Slough, the last remaining wetland in Owens Valley. This experience was key to the shift in his thinking and the beginning of his years-long struggle to protect the Owens pupfish. He was also instrumental in a long campaign on behalf of the equally endangered Devils Hole pupfish in Death Valley National Monument, as well as in preserving the California golden trout and other native fish. As part of his species- saving focus, he worked to bridge the gap between academic wildlife biologists and fish and wildlife agency personnel and took a central role in founding and sustaining the Desert Fishes Council, a research organization of academics, agency biologists, and public conservationists.

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Throughout the oral history, Phil foregrounds his interest in the ethical aspects of species protection; he has written and lectured on environmental ethics in many venues, from classroom to courtroom. At the same time, he recognizes the thoroughly political nature of his mission. He felt the constraints of his position within the California Department of Fish and Game, whose leadership and bureaucracy were devoted primarily to enhancing the sport-fishing resource. He describes engaging in a sort of guerrilla warfare, where he occasionally had to challenge authority directly but most often stayed under the political radar as he turned from planting game fish to protecting endangered species.

A continually resurfacing theme in his oral history is the role of the University of California, not only in Phil’s life but also in the crucial task of studying and preserving California’s natural resources. In that regard, Phil has worked with UC scientists throughout his career and has had a close relationship with the university’s Natural Reserve System and the White Mountain Research Station. To discuss these interrelationships, Roger Samuelsen, founding director of the Natural Reserve System, joined Phil for a May 2008 interview session on the NRS’s role in many of Phil’s endeavors, including preserving Fish Slough in the Owens Valley. In a later session of the oral history, videotaped at Fish Slough, California Fish and Game biologist Steve Parmenter joined Phil to discuss the complex management efforts undertaken since Phil’s retirement to provide a suitable habitat for the Owens pupfish.

The oral history with Phil Pister was recorded in nine interview sessions, beginning in September 2007 and ending in June 2008, a total of more than twenty recorded hours. Phil journeyed to Berkeley on three occasions for several days of interviews, and I drove to Bishop for the final two sessions, in which we videorecorded Phil in his habitat—in Bishop, the White Mountains, and among the pupfish at Fish Slough. Following transcription of the audio files, Phil carefully reviewed the transcript, correcting errors and spelling of names, but making no substantive changes. Roger Samuelsen and Steve Parmenter also reviewed their transcribed remarks. The full-text transcripts and videoclips from this oral history and others in the Regional Oral History Office’s extensive collection of interviews relating to California’s natural resources, parks, and environmental activism can be found online at http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/ROHO/collections/subjectarea/index.html, under the heading Natural Resources, Land Use, and the Environment.

The Regional Oral History Office was established in 1954 to augment through tape-recorded interviews the Bancroft Library’s materials on the and the West. The office is under the direction of Richard Cándida Smith and the administrative direction of Charles B. Faulhaber, The James D. Director of the Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley.

Ann Lage Interviewer October 5, 2009

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E. Philip Pister Interviewed by Ann Lage, ROHO Interview #1: 09-24-2007

Begin Audio File 1 Pister_e_philip1_09-24-2007.wav

01-00:00:05 Lage: Okay. We are on the air.

01-00:00:08 Pister: Okay.

01-00:00:09 Lage: And I will give the date: September 24, 2007. And this is the first interview with Phil Pister. A first of probably a number of hours of talking about your career as a fisheries biologist. Did I get that right?

01-00:00:27 Pister: Yeah. Or conservation biologist.

01-00:00:29 Lage: Or conservation biologist.

01-00:00:30 Pister: It all fits together.

01-00:00:31 Lage: Today, we’re mainly going to talk about your personal background, particularly with an eye to the influences on who you became and what you did. But it all starts back in the family.

01-00:00:46 Pister: Well, it does. Particularly in this case. I’m a product of my own upbringing so to speak. Fortunately, had a couple of parents who appreciated these things, and spent much of my time as a child in the mountains. Born and raised in Stockton, California, over in the Central Valley; born in 1929, and grew up during the Great Depression.

01-00:01:10 Lage: Yes.

01-00:01:11 Pister: All during the thirties.

01-00:01:03 Lage: Start by giving us a little background on your parents.

01-00:01:17 Pister: My parents were—my mother’s family started in the in 1850. And Dad was born in 1892, the child of German immigrants. The family came from Germany in the late 1800s and settled in Illinois, where my 2

grandfather ran a brickyard. Dad’s father came over to the States to keep from getting drafted into the Prussian army by Kaiser Wilhelm. And they moved to in 1914. My mom’s side of the family has been in the Central Valley, as I mentioned earlier, since 1850. And they were—

01-00:02:02 Lage: So you date way back in California, as Californians go?

01-00:02:05 Pister: Oh, way back, yes. The place where I grew up and still visit frequently was acquired by my great-great-grandmother, and it began in 1850 and was finally the property settlements were all made and the land designated in 1853. Back at that time, of course, there were huge areas of acreage that the family owned. And then when my grandmother, my mom’s mom—she’s a German herself—married then into the other side of the family—that was my grandpa Smith, who was a North Carolinian, as was his grandmother, the lady who settled in Stockton. Originally, it was all grain farming that we had there. Like I mentioned, there were thousands of acres, and these two big families merged, and there’s even more acreage.

01-00:03:05 Lage: Oh, so they were both families who owned land?

01-00:03:08 Pister: Yes, and through the normal procedures of inheritances through big families back then, where we grew up my brother Karl and I, was only twelve acres of land.

01-00:03:23 Lage: I see.

01-00:03:24 Pister: And then back then, of course this was during the Depression times and up through World War II, we were pretty much dependent, in many ways, upon that land. We had the dairy cattle, not many, but enough to sell milk. It was very minimal health qualifications back in the forties. You could sell about anything. You know, nowadays it’s just all of these huge, bureaucratic constraints on people being in the dairy business for themselves. And I would go home from Berkeley on the weekends, and help take care of the cows, milk the cows, and spend all my summers there on the farm.

01-00:04:06 Lage: And that’s hard work, from what I understand?

01-00:04:09 Pister: Oh, it is. Particularly around Stockton it sure is in hot summers, you know, it’s pretty fierce.

01-00:04:14 Lage: But growing up on the farm—your parents were teachers, though. 3

01-00:04:18 Pister: Yeah.

01-00:04:19 Lage: But did they also operate this as a working farm?

01-00:04:20 Pister: Yeah, they did. But this is where my mom had grown up, and she was very devoted to her father. And he died in 1917, I think it was, either just before the First World War or during it. And my mom made a commitment to him to make sure that his wife, my mom’s mother, was cared for. So this meant then—Grandma didn’t want to leave her own home, nor did my mother—so Dad kind of assumed the proprietorship of the place. I just have nothing but huge admiration for my dad, who was able to teach full-time and then run the farm there as well. Do all of the milking and getting up well before dawn. See, during World War II, we had double daylight saving time, and it made the mornings awfully short. And so he’d go out and we’d bring in the cows and, soaking wet from the rain during the night, have to milk these things.

01-00:05:26 Lage: So this was in high school too, you were working on the farm?

01-00:05:28 Pister: Yeah. Oh yeah, definitely, all the way through high school. I started high school in 1942 and finished in ’46. And one of the reasons I’m here in this oral history is that I had just some superb teachers at Stockton High School, as I had in elementary school as well.

01-00:05:47 Lage: Before you talk about that, I want to go a little bit more back into the family, and then we’ll move up into high school.

01-00:05:51 Pister: Okay. Fine.

01-00:05:53 Lage: I know that the family had a lot of tradition. And you mentioned the Confederate connection.

01-00:06:02 Pister: Yeah.

01-00:06:03 Lage: And