WHO ARE YOU CALLING A COUGAR? When TV presenter Caroline Flack, 32, dated , 17, she became tabloid fodder overnight – and the victim of an online hate campaign. Two years on, she talks to Polly Vernon about how it changed her life

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et’s just say I think it’s a silly word,” says Caroline Flack, the TV presenter who became (and remains) most famous for having a relationship with boy band member Harry Styles. It happened in 2011, when Styles was 17 and Flack was 32 (she’s now 33). The “silly word” in question is “cougar”, the vernacular used to Ldescribe an older woman who is romantically involved with a younger man. It’s a sniggery, reductive bit of terminology with which Flack has become synonymous. “Which is strange, because I used only to date older men. My first boyfriend, when I was 17 or 18, was in his thirties. Exactly the same age gap, but the other way round. I remember telling my mum, ‘I’ve got this new boyfriend,’ and she was like, ‘Is he nice to you?’ I didn’t even think about his age.” Flack and the cougar notion remain intertwined, even though the relationship with Styles ended, amicably, “a couple of years ago” and the raucous media storm that engulfed it and had Flack celebrated, vilified and fetishised on everything from Twitter to This Morning and the Daily Mail has calmed down. The paparazzi stopped trailing her a while ago, although the impact of their attention remains. “I’ve never really been a vain-y person. But you can’t help it, when you start seeing yourself [in paparazzi photographs] all the time. And also people were saying, ‘You’re an ugly witch: die!’ I started making an effort when I went to the shops. Now I put on sunglasses to get some sausages. I find myself thinking: ‘Who am I? Who have I turned into?’” What is it about the cougar label that particularly bothers you, I ask. “The whole idea of being predatory…” She grimaces. Caroline Flack does not seem especially predatory, to be fair. She is flirty, certainly; flirtation is part of her on-screen schtick. Me Out of Here! – “I loved that job. I really “I flirt. I am a flirtatious kind of person. loved that job” – in 2009 and 2010. She left I’m Although it depends what people mean by WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE a Celebrity in 2011 to present The Xtra Factor, flirty. I sometimes think people take flirty ITV2’s X Factor spin-off, which is where she as a bit, I’m not saying ‘promiscuous’, but COUGAR LABEL THAT met Styles; One Direction were runners-up they can take it as meaning that I’m… That the previous year. She’s reprising the Xtra I use it. But I don’t.” She is dark blonde and BOTHERS YOU? ‘THE IDEA Factor gig for the third time this summer. pretty – younger and softer-looking than I’d It’s The Xtra Factor that Flack wants to talk thought while clicking compulsively through OF BEING PREDATORY’ about today: the sheer graft involved (“Waking the myriad paparazzi shots of her that flooded up at, like, half five. Finishing at, like, ten, gossipy websites at the time of her relationship eleven,”), the social aspect (“Production is like with Styles. traits better suited to presenting primetime telly. a group of friends”) and the latest co-host, She’s perky and sensible, rather sweet, Flack has been doing just that since who took over from 2009 X Factor runner-up quick to self-denigrate, excitable and the very early 2000s. She worked her way after Murs left to pursue his pop enthusiastic, low on cynicism, yet not entirely steadily up the youth-telly ranks, fronting a career. Flack and Murs were rumoured to without edge, which keeps her the right side 2002 Norwegian chart-music show (“I was have been romantically involved at one point, of anodyne. She’s a people-pleaser. dubbed”), the 2007 children’s coverage of but Flack denies this. “After my going out with “I like being liked,” she says. Comic Relief Does Fame Academy and the Harry, people are very interested in my next

PREVIOUS SPREAD: PHOTOGRAPHED AT SPRING STUDIOS. THIS PAGE: PLANET PHOTOS, REX PLANET FEATURES PHOTOS, SPRING THIS STUDIOS. PAGE: PREVIOUS AT SPREAD: PHOTOGRAPHED I can’t imagine a combination of personality companion show to ITV’s I’m a Celebrity… Get person. Or as they put it, my next victim.”

32 The Times Magazine From left: with Harry Styles from One Direction (right) and Olly Murs on The Xtra Factor, 2011; Flack and new Xtra Factor co-host in July

Flack did not originally want to be a So Flack is a contender. She might be the TV presenter. She wanted to act in musical next Davina McCall; that’s certainly her aim. theatre, specifically in Cats, the Andrew ‘DO YOU KNOW WHAT? WITH Except that the whole Harry Styles debacle Lloyd Webber extravaganza. As a kid, she threatens to overshadow her potential and “did a lot of ballet and a lot of shows, and PRINCE HARRY? I CAN’T turn her into a saucy cipher, an inconsequential I used to get a buzz out of it”. Did she want to bit of celebrity fluff, a professional girlfriend. be famous? “I didn’t really know what fame TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE No one seems to be able to get over it; was. I was just very smiley, very keen.” She I know I can’t. Oh, I really want to talk to grew up in a small village outside . IT’S NOT FAIR ON HIM’ Flack about the relationship with Styles. Her speaking voice is classless and moderate, I’m fascinated, partly for scurrilous reasons. punctuated with moments of excitable Styles, whom I happened to have interviewed squeakiness that play well on telly. Very All the pizzas.” You sound like a grafter. “I am.” a fortnight earlier, is inarguably beautiful, occasionally, a hint of accent creeps When she was 22, Jo, who was by then but also (still) inarguably young. Yet I do think in. She was raised by a mother and a father working in London as an assistant film editor, that relationship represents a greater tipping who met and fell in love when they were “but had nothing to edit”, suggested that point on gender dynamics. Increasingly, 14 and 16 respectively, has an older brother she help her sister film a show reel, which older women are dating younger men. and sister and a non-identical twin called Jo, Caroline could send out to presenters’ agents. There are obvious high-profile examples: who, she says is, “a lot more talented than me. “So we got together this weird show Sam Taylor Wood, 46, and Aaron Taylor- I was the underdog. But she got bored with it, reel, on VHS, of me walking around our old Johnson, 23, who are now married with went to uni.” village.” Flack was promptly signed by John two daughters; Madonna, 54, who appears Flack left home at 16 and went to study Noel Management, a major talent agency uniquely interested in relationships with men musical theatre at a college in . that lists Russell Brand and Dermot O’Leary in their early twenties. That’s very young, I say (and hints at raging, among its clients; the Norwegian chart show But I see it in my friends and acquaintances precocious ambition, I think). “I guess so,” says gig followed reasonably swiftly and Flack’s too, a significant and growing proportion of Flack. “But I wasn’t like, ‘I need to break presenting career began in earnest. whom have been, or still are, involved with out of here; it’s too boring for me.’ I was just She is an unusually good TV presenter: men at least a decade younger than they are. obsessed by Kylie Minogue.” dedicated, diligent (“I don’t leave a rehearsal This shift in our behaviour, in our romantic In Cambridge she shared a house with until I get it right”) and watchable. She has wit culture, which originally seemed like a joke, other students. “There were 20 of us. All and instinct – an agreeable hint of bitchiness, a pornographic archetype come to life, now, dancers, all girls. Best years of my life. It was even – that distinguishes her from the masses increasingly, is a reality. If Styles’s extreme just like Fame.” of pretty-poppet telly wannabes who swamp youth makes Flack’s behaviour extraordinary At 19, “maybe 20, actually”, she moved to our screens. , the entertainment – and perhaps it does – it’s worth remembering London, and started auditioning for big West superpower behind machine, has that many famous thirtysomething men have End musicals. “I just wanted to be in Cats. I renewed Flack’s contract without blinking for dated many girls in their late teens without auditioned so many times. Got down to the the past three years. An accomplished anyone turning a hair. last two, the last three. And Les Mis, Starlight primetime TV presenter friend of mine tells I return to the subject of Styles over and Express. Never got any of them.” She subsidised me she’s slightly obsessed by watching Flack over. Flack attempts to sidestep it politely. the auditioning with a series of waitressing because, “She is really, really good at live TV, jobs: “Pizza Express, Pizza Hut, Pizzaland. which is not easy.” Continues on page 45

The Times Magazine 33 Continued from page 33 So you clung to a relationship you should have abandoned? “Exactly. And it got toxic. “I have talked about it so much. There’s really SHE WANTS TO AVOID And I was a stereotype heartbreak girl. You not much more to say about the relationship,” know the stereotype heartbreak girl you read she says. “It’s very hard to talk about it AGGRAVATING THE TWITTER about in books and magazines? I did everything without every single thing I say being taken you’re not supposed to do when you’re out of context and made into another story. HOARDS AND ONLINE TROLLS heartbroken. I really went through A Break-up.” I learnt very quickly that the less I said the But therapy, when she finally sought it better it was.” Yes, but… I say, and try again. AND ONE DIRECTION FANS – after some years and only because she was We eventually compromise on discussing scared “that I was really boring all my friends” the fallout from the affair, which was extreme so singularly defined by your love life. Flack – did the trick. “The word ‘content’ is a really and ranged from semi-criminal (death threats) says that while she does feel “a little bit” nice word,” Flack says. “And I am content.” to puerile (One Direction fans carried signs exploited by the media, she also wants to stop Her parents are better off apart, she tells me. reading “Flack Off” at concerts), arch (“Is complaining about it. “I do my job, I really She’s set up her dad on online dating. Harry from One Direction’s romance all it enjoy it and I’ve had no complaints about We wind up the interview. The shoot is seems?” ran a broadsheet headline before what I do. I’d rather someone made up a silly about to begin. This is good news, apparently. positing that it was all a publicity stunt story about some romance than saying, ‘She’s Flack says she “loves shoots”. Before she goes I engineered by Cowell) and offensive (shortly not very good at her job.’” ask her what she thinks people misunderstand after the relationship ended, a One Direction But the press remains fixated by your love about her. “That I think higher of myself than fanzine ran a full-page image of a voodoo doll life, I say. Flack is constantly being linked with I do. Maybe. A bit. Yes. But. You can’t shout: of Flack with annotations about her “crow’s men – everyone from Murs to last year’s X ‘I’m not as confident as you think I am!’” Do feet” and her lack of wedding ring, “because Factor winner to Prince Harry. you want to? “A bit.” no one wants to be with her”). “It’s funny!” What proportion of the rumours She must be confident about her image. I You really get it, don’t you, I say. “Yeah,” are true? “Ninety-eight per cent is complete ask her about all those paparazzi shots of her she replies. “Well. I got it.” Why? “The thing nonsense. They pluck it out of nowhere. But in leather shorts, and she says, “My legs are with Harry. I’d never experienced it before.” you can make something look a lot more not that great. They’re short and funny. It’s Has anyone? “Ha! No.” Why do you think interesting than it actually is, and you can chop hilarious when people call me ‘leggy’. Look people were so outraged? “Ummm…” people out of photos. Especially in a taxi. You how short I am [she’s 5ft 4in]. Leggy?” She won’t speculate, so I do. I think it was can be in a taxi with four girls and one boy, but Flack could well be sidestepping questions partly a lot of young girls expressing their those four girls aren’t there in the picture.” about her appearance because she wants to jealousy, but I think you also touched a nerve, OK, but let’s take the Prince Harry thing, seem humble, because she wants to avoid I tell her. I think you messed with people’s which made the gossip columns in summer expressing anything that might be interpreted idea of the natural order of things and they 2009. No one has spread any rumours about, as arrogance or vanity, or even mild self- found that threatening. I think you epitomised for example, me and Prince Harry – how confidence. This may seem disingenuous, people’s fears about what happens when a did it happen to you? “Well, we were friends, dishonest even, the response of the media- woman just does exactly what she wants. and we, um… I met him through a friend trained modern celebrity; until you reflect on “Maybe. I do think it was about women.” called Natalie Pinkham [the Formula One the recent terrifying, mounting aggression of Do you regret the relationship? “Not at all. presenter].” How does one meet a prince? online trolls, and remember that One No.” You’d do it again? “Absolutely.” One “I know! And that was weird: I was out with Direction has 14 million Twitter followers, could say you’re something of a feminist icon. Natalie one night, and we met…” She trails off. many of whom have spent much of the last “I like to think women would think that of But it was never a sexy thing? Flack has two years expressing fierce antipathy toward me.” Are you a feminist? “I guess I am. I in the past denied any sort of romance with Flack. Last month, they redirected their rage wouldn’t go out and say: ‘I’m a feminist!’” She the prince. “I’m not going to… Do you know at the men’s magazine GQ after it ran an pumps her clenched fist, faux stridently. “But what? With Harry? With Prince Harry? I can’t interview with the band, and referenced One I’m definitely pro-women. I think women have talk about it because it’s not fair on him. It’s Direction’s fans in disparaging terms. “GQ a hard time. Not just in the media. In general. best if I…” She trails off again. OK then. needs to shut the f*** up before I break my You’ve got to stick up for your fellow women. But look: there I go, contributing to the glass nail file in two and stab them in the I like it when I hear women saying: ‘I’m exactly problem, focusing on Flack’s love life and eyes,” commented one, in response to the C A the same as you.’ Like I’m always with really ignoring the rest of the woman. And anyway, article. “I am going to find GQ and f***ing M younger men. I find it funny. I find it all quite Flack is single at the moment. “I’ve been bomb them. See you in jail,” said another. funny. I do see the funny side – now. You dating. But I’m single.” She is also “happy; the It was all rather awful, but it must have ARE AND C forget, don’t you? What it was like at the time.” happiest I’ve been in ages”. What happened to come as a relief to Flack not to be the prime IN

SK How long were you together? “Longer than make her happy? “Therapy. Like. Quite a lot.” target for a little while. If she wants to avoid

URPHY. I think people thought. [The reports] never got A bad and prolonged break-up some years reigniting Harry Styles’ fans’ fury, you can LEMIS M E it right. They never really knew what was ago (pre-Styles, from “a musician who was hardly blame her. going on.” exactly the same age as me”) coincided with You could tell me everything now if you her parents’ divorce, those parents who had The Xtra Factor returns this month on ITV2 ROFT USING USING KEVIN K C wanted. Set the record straight. She laughs, been together since they were 14 and 16. but she won’t. Would you go out with a “I don’t know what it’s like to go through your PAGES 30-31, FROM LEFT: jumper, £29.99, H&M, trousers, £620, ERMAU

V younger man again? “Yes. Absolutely. And I’d parents’ divorce as a child, but as an adult muubaa.com, shoes, £950, Jimmy Choo, necklace, £240, go out with an older man again. I might go it is really quite upsetting. I got a lot more lulufrost.com; jacket, Dior; knickers, £395, Burberry, shoes, EMMA WHEAT G out with someone in his seventies.” involved than I should have. I knew a lot more £445, rupertsanderson.com; dress, £3,839, Hervé Léger; body,

E-UP: I wonder how it feels to have such a than I should have. I understood more than £160, dMondaine (net-a-porter.com), skirt, £795, Burberry, K A AIR: CHRISTIAN AIR: CHRISTIAN

H M highly sexualised profile foisted on you, to be I would have if I’d been younger. So.” shoes, £250, Kurt Geiger

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