Monday Volume 499 9 November 2009 No. 138

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Monday 9 November 2009

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT

MEMBERS OF THE CABINET

(FORMED BY THE RT.HON.,MP,JUNE 2007)

PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY AND MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE—The Rt. Hon. Gordon Brown, MP LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS,LORD PRIVY SEAL AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITY—The Rt. Hon. , QC, MP ,SECRETARY OF STATE FOR BUSINESS,INNOVATION AND SKILLS AND LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL—The Rt. Hon. The Lord Mandelson CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR JUSTICE AND LORD CHANCELLOR—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENVIRONMENT,FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR CHILDREN,SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE—The Rt. Hon. Edward Miliband, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR HEALTH—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR NORTHERN IRELAND—The Rt. Hon. , MP LEADER OF THE AND CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER —The Rt. Hon. The Baroness Royall of Blaisdon MINISTER FOR THE CABINET OFFICE AND FOR THE OLYMPICS, AND —The Rt. Hon. , MP ()* SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SCOTLAND—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WORK AND PENSIONS—The Rt. Hon. , MP CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WALES—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE—The Rt. Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR TRANSPORT—The Rt. Hon The Lord Adonis SECRETARY OF STATE FOR CULTURE,MEDIA AND SPORT—The Rt. Hon. , MP

DEPARTMENTS OF STATE AND MINISTERS Business, Innovation and Skills— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. The Lord Mandelson § MINISTERS OF STATE— Minister for Business, Innovation and Skills—The Rt. Hon. Pat McFadden, MP Minister for Science and Innovation—The Rt. Hon. The Lord Drayson § Minister for Regional Economic Development and Co-ordination—The Rt. Hon. , MP (Minister for Yorkshire and the Humber)* § Minister for Trade, Investment and Small Business—The Lord Davies of Abersoch, CBE § Minister for Higher Education and Intellectual Property—The Rt. Hon. , MP Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships and Consumer Affairs—Kevin Brennan, MP § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— The Rt. Hon , MP § The Lord Young of Norwood Green , MP Cabinet Office— MINISTER FOR THE CABINET OFFICE AND FOR THE OLYMPICS, AND PAYMASTER GENERAL—The Rt. Hon. Tessa Jowell, MP (Minister for London)* MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Angela E Smith, MP PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY—Dawn Butler, MP Children, Schools and Families— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Ed Balls, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Minister for Children, Young People and Families—The Rt. Hon. , MP Minister for Schools and Learners—, MP Kevin Brennan, MP § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP The Baroness Morgan of Drefelin Diana R Johnson, MP ii HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

Communities and Local Government— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. John Denham, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Minister for Regional Economic Development and Co-ordination—The Rt. Hon. Rosie Winterton, MP (Minister for Yorkshire and the Humber)* § Minister for Housing—The Rt. Hon. , MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Barbara Follett, MP (Minister for the East of )* Shahid Malik, MP , MP (Minister for the West Midlands)* The Lord McKenzie of Luton § Culture, Media and Sport— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Ben Bradshaw, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. , MBE, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Gerry Sutcliffe, MP Siôn Simon, MP Defence— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Bob Ainsworth, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Minister for the Armed Forces—Bill Rammell, MP The Rt. Hon. The Lord Drayson § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— The Rt. Hon. The Baroness Taylor of Bolton § Quentin Davies, MP , MP Duchy of Lancaster— CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER AND LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS—The Rt. Hon. The Baroness Royall of Blaisdon Energy and Climate Change— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Edward Miliband, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt. Hon. The Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, OBE , MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE— David Kidney, MP Environment, Food and Rural Affairs— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Hilary Benn, MP MINISTER OF STATE— Jim Fitzpatrick, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Huw Irranca-Davies, MP Dan Norris, MP The Rt. Hon. The Lord Davies of Oldham § Foreign and Commonwealth Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. David Miliband, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Minister for Africa and the UN—The Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead Minister for Trade, Investment and Small Business—The Lord Davies of Abersoch, CBE § , MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Minister for Europe—, MP The Rt. Hon. The Baroness Taylor of Bolton § Government Equalities Office— MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITY—The Rt. Hon. Harriet Harman, QC, MP § MINISTER OF STATE—, MP § PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY—Michael Jabez Foster, MP (Hastings and Rye) Health— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Andy Burnham, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt. Hon. Mike O’Brien, QC, MP Phil Hope, MP (Minister for the East Midlands)* Gillian Merron, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE— Ann Keen, MP HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont. iii

Home Office—

SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Alan Johnson, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Minister for Borders and Immigration—, MP (Minister for the North West)* § , Crime and Counter-Terrorism—The Rt. Hon. David Hanson, MP

PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Admiral The Lord West of Spithead, GCB DSC , MP Alan Campbell, MP The Lord Brett § International Development— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Douglas Alexander, MP MINISTER OF STATE—Gareth Thomas, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE— Michael Foster, MP (Worcester) Justice— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Jack Straw, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt. Hon. Michael Wills, MP Maria Eagle, MP § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Bridget Prentice, MP The Lord Bach Claire Ward, MP Law Officers’ Department— ATTORNEY-GENERAL—The Rt. Hon. The Baroness Scotland of Asthal, QC SOLICITOR-GENERAL—Vera Baird, QC, MP ADVOCATE-GENERAL FOR SCOTLAND—The Lord Davidson of Glen Clova, QC Leader of the House of Commons— LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS,LORD PRIVY SEAL AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITY—The Rt. Hon. Harriet Harman, QC, MP § PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY,OFFICE OF THE LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS— , MP Northern Ireland— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Shaun Woodward, MP MINISTER OF STATE— The Rt. Hon. Paul Goggins, MP Privy Council Office— LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL,FIRST SECRETARY OF STATE AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR BUSINESS,INNOVATION AND SKILLS—The Rt. Hon. The Lord Mandelson § Scotland Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Jim Murphy, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE— Ann McKechin, MP Transport— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. The Lord Adonis MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. , MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Paul Clark, MP Chris Mole, MP Treasury— PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY AND MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE—The Rt. Hon. Gordon Brown, MP CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt. Hon. Alistair Darling, MP CHIEF SECRETARY—The Rt. Hon. Liam Byrne, MP FINANCIAL SECRETARY—The Rt. Hon. Stephen Timms, MP § MINISTER OF STATE—Phil Woolas, MP (Minister for the North West)* § ECONOMIC SECRETARY—Ian Pearson, MP EXCHEQUER SECRETARY—Sarah McCarthy-Fry, MP PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY—The Rt. Hon. Nicholas Brown, MP (Minister for the North East)* FINANCIAL SERVICES SECRETARY—The Lord Myners, CBE iv HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

LORDS COMMISSIONERS— Frank Roy, MP Steve McCabe, MP Dave Watts, MP Tony Cunningham, MP Bob Blizzard, MP ASSISTANT WHIPS— Mark Tami, MP George Mudie, MP John Heppell, MP Lyn Brown, MP , MP , MP Kerry McCarthy, MP David Wright, MP Wales Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Peter Hain, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE— , MP Work and Pensions— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt. Hon. Yvette Cooper, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Minister for Employment and Welfare Reform—The Rt. Hon. , MP (Minister for the South West)* Minister for Pensions and the Ageing Society—, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Jonathan Shaw, MP (Minister for the South East)* , MP The Lord McKenzie of Luton § Her Majesty’s Household— LORD CHAMBERLAIN—The Rt. Hon. The Earl Peel, GCVO, DL LORD STEWARD—The Earl of Dalhousie MASTER OF THE HORSE—The Rt. Hon. The Lord Vestey, KCVO TREASURER—The Rt. Hon. Thomas McAvoy, MP COMPTROLLER—The Rt. Hon. , MP VICE-CHAMBERLAIN—Helen Jones, MP CAPTAIN OF THE HONOURABLE CORPS OF GENTLEMEN-AT-ARMS—The Lord Bassam of Brighton CAPTAIN OF THE QUEEN’S BODYGUARD OF THE YEOMEN OF THE GUARD—The Rt. Hon. The Lord Davies of Oldham § LORDS IN WAITING—The Lord Tunnicliffe, The Lord Young of Norwood Green, The Lord Brett §, The Lord Faulkner of Worcester BARONESSES IN WAITING—The Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton, The Baroness Thornton, The Baroness Crawley § Members of the Government with responsibilities in more than one area * Regional Ministers (in addition to other ministerial responsibilities)

Full list: Ministers for the English Regions— Ian Austin, MP (Minister for the West Midlands) The Rt. Hon. Nicholas Brown, MP (Minister for the North East) Barbara Follett, MP (Minister for the East of England) Phil Hope, MP (Minister for the East Midlands) The Rt. Hon. Tessa Jowell, MP (Minister for London) The Rt. Hon. Jim Knight, MP (Minister for the South West) Jonathan Shaw, MP (Minister for the South East) The Rt. Hon. Rosie Winterton, MP (Minister for Yorkshire and the Humber) Phil Woolas, MP (Minister for the North West)

SECOND CHURCH ESTATES COMMISSIONER,REPRESENTING CHURCH COMMISSIONERS—Sir Stuart Bell, MP HOUSE OF COMMONS

THE SPEAKER—The Rt. Hon. John Bercow, MP CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—The Rt. Hon. Sir Alan Haselhurst, MP FIRST DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—Sylvia Heal, MP SECOND DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—Sir Michael Lord, MP CHAIRMEN’S PANEL Mr. David Amess, MP, , MP, Mr. Peter Atkinson, MP, Hugh Bayley, MP, Miss Anne Begg, MP, Mr. Joe Benton, MP, Mr. Clive Betts, MP, Mr. Graham Brady, MP, Sir John Butterfill, MP, Mr. Martin Caton, MP, Mr. Christopher Chope, MP, Frank Cook, MP, John Cummings, MP, Mrs. Janet Dean, MP, Mr. Nigel Evans, MP, Christopher Fraser, MP, Mr. Roger Gale, MP, Mr. Mike Hancock, MP, Mr. Jim Hood, MP, The Rt. Hon. George Howarth, MP, Mrs. Joan Humble, MP, Mr. Eric Illsley, MP, Mr. Martyn Jones, MP, Robert Key, MP, Dr. William McCrea, MP, Mr. Eric Martlew, MP, Mr. Edward O’Hara, MP, Mr. Bill Olner, MP, Mr. Greg Pope, MP, Bob Russell, MP, Jim Sheridan, MP, Mr. Gary Streeter, MP, David Taylor, MP, Joan Walley, MP, Mr. Mike Weir, MP, Hywel Williams, MP, Mr. David Wilshire, MP, Ann Winterton, MP, Sir Nicholas Winterton, MP HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION The Rt. Hon. The Speaker (Chairman), Sir Stuart Bell, MP, The Rt. Hon. Harriet Harman, QC, MP, Nick Harvey, MP, The Rt. Hon. , MP, The Rt. Hon. Sir George Young, MP SECRETARY OF THE COMMISSION—Dorian Gerhold ASSISTANT SECRETARY—Robert Cope ADMINISTRATION ESTIMATE AUDIT COMMITTEE The Rt. Hon. Sir George Young, MP (Chairman), Clive Betts, MP, Nick Harvey, MP, Mark Clarke, Alex Jablonowski, David Taylor SECRETARY OF THE AUDIT COMMITTEE—Hannah Weston, PhD MANAGEMENT BOARD Malcolm Jack, PhD (Chief Executive), Robert Rogers (Director General, Chamber and Committee Services), John Pullinger (Director General, Information Services), Andrew Walker (Director General, Resources), John Borley, CB (Director General, Facilities), Joan Miller (Director of Parliamentary ICT) (External Member), Alex Jablonowski (External Member) SECRETARY OF THE MANAGEMENT BOARD—Philippa Helme SPEAKER’S SECRETARY—Angus Sinclair SPEAKER’S COUNSEL—Michael Carpenter SPEAKER’S CHAPLAIN—Rev. Canon Robert Wright MEDICAL ADVISER TO THE SPEAKER—Dr. Ron Zeegen, OBE, FRCP, MRCS, DObst, RCOG PARLIAMENTARY COMMISSIONER FOR STANDARDS—John Lyon, CB PARLIAMENTARY SECURITY CO-ORDINATOR—Peter Mason

9 November 2009

THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES OFFICIAL REPORT

IN THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE FIFTY-FOURTH PARLIAMENT OF THE OF AND NORTHERN IRELAND [WHICH OPENED 11 MAY 2005]

FIFTY-EIGHTH YEAR OF THE REIGN OF HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II

SIXTH SERIES VOLUME 499 FIFTEENTH VOLUME OF SESSION 2008-2009

signed a memorandum of understanding with English House of Commons Heritage on marketing and the display of objects. Please will the Secretary of State urge English Heritage to go Monday 9 November 2009 the extra mile, and help both the museums and local people, to encourage this wonderful new project?

The House met at half-past Two o’clock Mr. Bradshaw: I shall be very happy to do that. I know that English Heritage is engaged in active discussions, and, as the hon. Gentleman said, has already signed a PRAYERS memorandum of understanding. I believe that discussion is still taking place about the amount of support that [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] will become available, but I am confident that both museums will be pleased with the outcome.

Mr. James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): Those of Oral Answers to Questions us who represent the other side of Salisbury plain are immensely proud of the fact that our area contains the Wiltshire historical records centre in Chippenham. Does CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT the Secretary of State agree that now is the right time for it to be balanced by a suitable museum and visitor The Secretary of State was asked— centre south of the plain, covering the heritage of which we on the northern side are so proud? Stonehenge Galleries Mr. Bradshaw: I shall be happy to look into the 1. Robert Key (Salisbury) (Con): Whether his matter, and either my right hon. Friend the Minister of Department’s proposed funding for the visitor centre at State or I will write to the hon. Gentleman. Stonehenge includes provision for partnership joint funding of Stonehenge galleries at (a) Salisbury and Spoliation (b) Devizes museum. [298009] The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport 2. Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon) (Lab): What his (Mr. Ben Bradshaw): The specific £10 million that we policy is on the return from UK collections of items announced last month does not, but English Heritage looted during the Nazi era; and if he will make a has agreed funding for the Salisbury and Devizes museums statement. [298010] as part of a separate partnership agreement, and the two museums together have received over £500,000 The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media since 1999 as part of the Government’s support for and Sport (Margaret Hodge): I congratulate my hon. regional museums. Friend on his achievement in piloting the Holocaust (Return of Cultural Objects) Bill through the Commons. Robert Key: That is very good news, for which I thank I also congratulate Lord Janner on leading the support the Secretary of State. for it in the other place. I am delighted that the Bill, The Salisbury and South Wiltshire museum is making which the Government were pleased to support and a tremendous effort to co-ordinate its fundraising for which received all-party support throughout, will receive new galleries with the visitor centre operation. It has Royal Assent shortly. 3 Oral Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 4

The 17 institutions named in the Bill will be allowed Mr. Sutcliffe: I am sure that my hon. Friend would to return objects lost during the Nazi era, in response to want me to read the report before embarking on any a claim and when the return of the object is recommended deliberations. by the Spoliation Advisory Panel and agreed by Ministers. Hugh Robertson (Faversham and Mid-) (Con): Mr. Dismore: Will my right hon. Friend say what she As a result of the de-listing of cricket, we now have a can do to try to encourage people with potential claims women’s cricket team that leads the world. We have also to come forward, and what attitude she will take when poured an awful lot of money into disability cricket and the Spoliation Advisory Panel recommends restitution? grass-roots schemes such as the Chance to Shine scheme, which is active in almost every Member’s constituency. Margaret Hodge: I hope that, in co-operation with What assessment has the Department made of the my hon. Friend—because of his efforts in steering the amount that it has been possible to invest in such Bill through Parliament—we shall be able to provide schemes as a result of the de-listing of cricket? the maximum publicity when the Bill finally receives Royal Assent. I can tell him that Ministers have never Mr. Sutcliffe: I acknowledge all that the hon. Gentleman turned down any advice from the Spoliation Advisory has said. It was this Government who introduced the Committee in the past, and I do not expect that to system, which was last examined in 1998. Controversial change in the future. issues are clearly involved, but we want to ensure that we protect sport in the way that he has described while Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): I congratulate also meeting the needs of the public. We will read the the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) on steering report with great interest, and we look forward to our the Bill through the House. I also congratulate the deliberations on it. Government on their efforts to bring it to fruition as soon as possible. Product Placement Can the Minister assure me that, when people would rather receive compensation than have their belongings 4. Paul Rowen (Rochdale) (LD): What recent discussions returned to them, the Government will examine individual he has had on product placement in UK-made television cases carefully to ensure that the wishes of the families, programmes. [298013] who are, no doubt, those most affected by the holocaust, are listened to and acted on as swiftly as possible? The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr. Ben Bradshaw): I have had a number of discussions Margaret Hodge: I agree that we should act as swiftly on product placement, and we have today issued a as possible. The ability to receive financial compensation consultation document on the matter. rather than the return of artefacts already exists; indeed, the problem was that financial compensation was the Paul Rowen: I welcome the Secretary of State’s only form of compensation that people could receive. announcement today, but, as he said in his press statement, My hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) other European Union countries have already introduced and I felt that that was grossly unfair. The issue was a new regime and he does not want our commercial brought to our attention by a case in which the Fitzwilliam programme makers to be put at a disadvantage. Can he museum was able to return a particular object, whereas therefore tell us when he expects a new regime to be the British Museum was not able to return another that in place? belonged to the same family. That was one of the reasons for our seeking this change in the legislation. Mr. Bradshaw: I do not think the hon. Gentleman is quite right in saying that all other EU countries have Davies Committee already introduced it. Certainly, however, the vast majority of EU countries have indicated that, like us, they intend 3. Mr. John Grogan (Selby) (Lab): When he plans to to move in that direction, and we would hope that, with publish the report of the Davies committee review of the consultation launched today, we would be able to listed sporting events. [298011] make a decision in January and a new regime would be introduced early in the new year. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): We look forward David Cairns (Inverclyde) (Lab): With your permission, to receiving the David Davies report, which will be Mr. Speaker, may I congratulate my right hon. Friend published in due course. on winning—this is long overdue—the politician of the year award? Mr. Grogan: Will my hon. Friend view favourably the Knowing this question was coming up, over the weekend rumoured recommendations of the Davies committee I started counting how often products were placed on that Ashes cricket, the entire Wimbledon tennis tournament, the television programmes I was watching, which were the football qualifying matches of the home nations mainly imported from the United States, and I gave up and Welsh international rugby should be returned to after counting well over 20 occasions. I am not remotely the A list, thus putting the opinions of ordinary viewers corrupted by this. We should stop being so prissy, get on and sports fans above, say, those of the Murdoch family? with it, and give some money to ITV to make up for the huge drop in advertising revenue it has experienced. Mr. Sutcliffe: I congratulate my hon. Friend, who I believe has written to David Davies expressing his views. Mr. Bradshaw: It was for those very reasons that I took a different view from my predecessor, although Mr. Edward Vaizey (Wantage) (Con): Answer! I think the arguments were finely balanced. However, 5 Oral Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 6 the reason why we are having a consultation is because of State agree that product placement should not be there are at the same time important safeguard issues, allowed in news programming, as people want to ensure and important health issues around the protection of the neutrality of programmes in that area? children and so forth. We want to make sure that we get this right so that we maximise income for producers and Mr. Bradshaw: Yes, I do agree with that, but I do not for commercial television, which is going through a very agree that the hon. Gentleman’s area has better beers hard time at present, while at the same time ensuring than mine, Mr. Speaker, as you cannot beat a pint of that we have the correct safeguards in place. Otter ale.

Mr. (Maldon and East Chelmsford) Illegal File Sharing (Con): I welcome the consultation paper, and all of this does, of course, represent a complete reversal of the 5. Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): What position of the Secretary of State’s predecessor. Does plans he has to reduce levels of illegal file sharing; and the Secretary of State accept, however, that product if he will make a statement. [298015] placement will do only a small amount to assist commercial broadcasters, who are facing huge economic difficulty, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, and that we will need to go further and look at other Media and Sport (Mr. Siôn Simon): We intend to introduce deregulatory measures that will assist all the commercial legislation to address this serious problem in the next public service broadcasters to survive? parliamentary Session. Our proposals include a system of notifications to those infringing copyright online Mr. Bradshaw: Yes, the hon. Gentleman is absolutely and action against the most serious infringers. right to highlight that this will not be a panacea for commercial broadcasting. There are a number of things Jo Swinson: I thank the Minister for that answer. we can do to help ease the plight of commercial There is genuine public concern about the Government’s broadcasting further, and we are looking into them. proposals, and in particular the prospect that people has in the last year relaxed the rules on the who have done nothing wrong could have their internet responsibilities of commercial broadcasting, such as in disconnected. An appeal system has been announced by respect of news in the regions. As the hon. Gentleman the Government, but will the Minister give an assurance will know, we have imaginative, sensible and practicable that people will have a chance to defend their innocence solutions to the problems and pressures facing regional before any decision is taken to disconnect their internet news and other important areas of commercial connection? broadcasting. Mr. Simon: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that Mr. Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley) (Lab): Product placement question. People who have done nothing wrong should is the way forward. Who knows? We may have something not be in any danger of having their internet interfered above the Speaker’s Chair. This is a welcome move and with at all. Hardly anybody, other than the most serious goes a small way to ensuring that there is programme and egregious recidivistic offenders, should ever be in making within the great Granada region. However, will danger of having any of their internet affected, and the Secretary of State do even more—he has touched nobody will have their bandwidth squeezed or their on this—to make sure that regional news and current account suspended until they have had repeated letters, affairs programmes will continue to be made within been given a healthy notice period and then had a right “Granadaland”? of appeal—indeed, two rights of appeal—as she requests.

Mr. Bradshaw: Given the conservatism of this place, I Mr. Brian Jenkins (Tamworth) (Lab): I welcome, as suspect, Mr. Speaker, that your Chair is the last place anyone does, the warm words spoken by my hon. Friend, where we will see a product placed. As far as I am but he must realise that when we set these organisations aware, under the EU directive, products would not be up they grow like Topsy; they start impinging and allowed to be placed in news and current affairs programmes pushing the rules. Will he ensure that it is implicit in the anyway. My hon. Friend’s point about regional television Bill that that will not happen and that we will not create news is very important. Many of us have seen our news a large sledgehammer to crack a small nut? regions amalgamated and journalists lose their jobs, and the quality and localness of news provision suffer Mr. Simon: I can assure my hon. Friend of that. We as a result. That has happened in my own region of the are not creating a sledgehammer; we are creating a south-west. The Government have come up with a light-touch regime to enforce the existing law. sensible and imaginative way of securing the future of regional news, and it would be nice if we felt we had Mr. (South-West Surrey) (Con): Everyone support from hon. Members on both sides of the House understands the need for safeguards, but will the Minister for that proposal. confirm that, assuming the successful passage of the digital economy Bill, the earliest an illegal file sharer Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con): Berry’s in the could have their internet connection temporarily cut off Ribble valley make good chairs, Mr. Speaker, if you are is February 2012? That is hardly an example of the thinking of going down the route just mentioned. Government at their most decisive. Clearly, we might see the end of Newton and Ridley beer being served at the Rover’s Return on “Coronation Mr. Simon: First, no I cannot confirm that; how long Street”, but we have some very good brews around my it will take to reach that point will depend on how constituency—Bowland, Thwaites, Moorhouse’s and the things go. In any case, how long it takes to get to a tiny like—which could be served there. Does the Secretary number of very serious infringers having their internet 7 Oral Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 8 interfered with is not the measure of success. If everything believe that more can be done. I am looking forward to goes well, nobody will reach that point because earlier raising these issues with these organisations in the very measures will do the job. I would be grateful if the hon. near future. Gentleman could confirm to the House that he supports the proposals as they stand. Listed Buildings

Mr. Hunt: I am happy to confirm that the Conservatives 7. Ann Coffey (Stockport) (Lab): What recent support the proposals. We just do not think that they, representations he has received on the level of Government on their own, will do the job. Does the Minister accept spending on listed buildings; and if he will make a that if we are to tackle this problem, we also have to statement. [298017] look at reforming the outdated intellectual property laws on digital content? If we do not do that, we will The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media not, in the end, deal with the nub of the problem. Will and Sport (Margaret Hodge): Ministers and officials the Secretary of State be addressing intellectual property regularly receive representations on listing issues, including laws or will that issue be put in the file marked “Post- funding, from a wide range of partners. More than election: someone else’s problem”? £26.5 million was made available via English Heritage grant schemes in 2008-09 for the repair of listed buildings Mr. Simon: That issue is very firmly in the file marked and other heritage assets. “Announced by my right hon. Friends at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills last week.” As the Ann Coffey: I thank my right hon. Friend for that hon. Gentleman says, we need reform of licensing and answer. The current system of listing buildings can hold copyright legislation to bring the system into line with up development and lead to additional costs. In the case the new technology. That goes hand in hand with the of Stockport college, in my constituency, that meant measures to enforce copyright online, as does the message that a capital grant from the Learning and Skills Council sent out clearly from the Government that the content for phase 2 development was almost entirely spent on industries, which will profit from these measures, need improving two listed buildings with no educational to step up to the plate and put some work in to develop benefit to any young person. That cannot be right. Will new business models and new technology to give people my right hon. Friend meet me to discuss my concerns what they need, at a price they can afford. about the current system of listing buildings? Margaret Hodge: I am very happy to meet my hon. Football Association Friend in the near future to discuss the issues and I know that she has written to me about them. She raised 6. David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): two issues of substance. The first is the delay in considering What recent discussions he has had with the Football the listing of buildings. We try to get the decisions out Association on reforms to its (a) management structure within six months, but that does not always happen and and (b) role; and if he will make a statement. [298016] we should strive continuously to improve that. The second issue is the balance that has to be struck between The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, ensuring that we protect our heritage, particularly buildings Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): I wrote to the of historic and architectural value, and that buildings Football Association, as well as the and are fit for purpose and can be used, particularly by the Football League, on 23 September, outlining the public bodies. Government’s views on their responses to the seven governance and regulation questions put to them by a Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire) (Con): former Secretary of State. In that letter, I asked those Bearing in that Canterbury, Lincoln and Lichfield bodies to work more closely together on key issues in cathedrals alone—to name but three—are looking for football and to support the full implementation of Lord more than £26.5 million, will the right hon. Lady accept Burns’ recommendations in his 2005 report. I will be that that is not an enormous sum in the face of the meeting all three organisations in the very near future problem? Will she encourage her Treasury colleagues to to discuss these issues. reconsider allowing private owners to offset the cost of maintenance against tax, freeing more money for public buildings? David Taylor: The FA is not implementing the 2005 Burns report and still has a management board that Margaret Hodge: I hope that the hon. Gentleman, fails to respect and reflect the diversity of those involved with his great interest in these issues, will accept that the in our national game. What more can the Minister do, investment that we have made in churches and cathedrals given the FA’s attitudes, to protect the interests of over the past decade or so has been successful in dealing supporters, players and clubs by dragging this antediluvian, with some of the worst dilapidations that have occurred dysfunctional clique out of the 1950s? in those wonderful heritage assets. I assure him that I make constant representations to my right hon. and Mr. Sutcliffe: My hon. Friend should say what he hon. Friends in the Treasury to see whether we can get means. Clearly, there are issues to address, and the some leeway to ensure that more resources are given to whole purpose of this correspondence and these meetings, conserve our heritage assets. and the Burns recommendations in particular, is to do that. has been made—there is now an independent Mr. Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op): Will my chairman of the FA, which is a step in the right direction, right hon. Friend resist any temptation to list Preston and we have seen support for women’s football—but I bus station, which has little or no architectural merit 9 Oral Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 10 and has had an application rejected in the past? The scenes. Given the recommendations of the Byron review, current application is being used purely as a tactic to specifically paragraphs 32 and 33, what steps do the stop the redevelopment of Preston city centre. Government propose to take to ensure that such violent games do not fall into the hands of children and young Margaret Hodge: I thank my hon. Friend for his people? This is not about censorship—it is about protecting question. That particular building has not been drawn our children. to my attention so far, so I am grateful to him for doing so. I shall look in detail at all the representations I Mr. Simon: The clearest recommendation of the Byron receive in coming to my decision. review is that content suitable for adults should be labelled and sold as such, and that it should be an Mr. Edward Vaizey (Wantage) (Con): Listed buildings offence to sell such content to children. That is the case are part of our national heritage—a national heritage under current law and it will be the case when the law that the Secretary of State described last week in disparaging changes under the digital economy Bill. The game to terms as “the past, old buildings” and “monuments”. which my right hon. Friend refers is certificate 18 and Does that explain why the Minister’s Department has should not be sold to children. The Government’s job is cut funding to English Heritage by £100 million, more to ensure that what adults should be able to get is than halved lottery funding for heritage and withdrawn clearly labelled, and that children are not in danger of the draft Heritage Protection Bill? being subjected to adult content.

Margaret Hodge: Let me talk first about heritage Mr. Tom Watson (West Bromwich, East) (Lab): I funding. I would have thought that Opposition Members have seen the content of the video game. It is unpleasant, would support the Government as we try to ensure that although no worse than in many films and books. The investment in our heritage goes to supporting the assets game carries a content warning. It is an 18-plus game, rather than the bureaucracy of particular organisations. and carries the British Board of Film Classification Although it might be true that English Heritage’s funding 18-plus rating as well. Does the Minister agree that it has kept level over the past few years, the investment would be better for Members of the House to support in our buildings has increased. We now invest some the many thousands of game designers and coders, and £600 million per annum in heritage across the piece. I the many millions of game users, rather than collaborating do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s assertion that there with the Daily Mail to create moral panic over the use has been a decline in the funding of heritage. Indeed, I of video games? look forward to what he will say in his manifesto about the investment that we will have in heritage rather than Mr. Simon: I was in Dundee last week visiting the the cuts that we will have in the Department for Culture, video games industry, and I certainly agree that it is Media and Sport and its bodies. a large and important industry in which we have a On the Bill that failed to get time in Parliament, I national competitive advantage. It is important that all regret that that happened but I am taking forward a lot Members of the House and the Government continue of the propositions in it. Earlier, we discussed the Bill to support it. on spoliation that my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) has successfully piloted through Lottery Grants both Houses. We are managing to put other elements of the Bill into effect without the legislation, but we will 9. Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk) (Con): continue to look for an early legislative opportunity When he next expects to meet representatives of the both in this Parliament— national lottery distributors to discuss lottery grants to community halls. [298019] Mr. Speaker: Order. I think that we have the gist of the right hon. Lady’s reply. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr. Siôn Simon): I meet lottery Byron Review distributors regularly. The Big Lottery Fund and its predecessors alone have made grants totalling £450 million 8. Keith Vaz (Leicester, East) (Lab): What steps his to community buildings across the UK. Department has taken to implement the recommendation of Professor Byron’s review on safer children in a digital Mr. Bellingham: During this week of remembrance, world. [298018] does the Minister agree that a group we should not forget is the one looking after the interests of many The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, veterans, both young and old—namely, the Royal British Media and Sport (Mr. Siôn Simon): Professor Byron’s Legion? Can he tell the House why numerous British wide-ranging recommendations require cross-Whitehall Legion bids to the national lottery for new premises or co-operation. My Department is working as part of the repairs to existing premises have been turned down? UK Council for Child Internet Safety, as well as providing the new legislative framework we announced in “Digital Mr. Simon: As the hon. Gentleman knows, I cannot Britain”to enable implementation of her recommendations. comment in detail about individual bids. I can tell him that the money currently used to support veterans, Keith Vaz: The Minister will be aware that at midnight partly in the way he describes and partly, for instance, in a new and violent video game, “Call of Duty: Modern enabling them to take trips back to their battlegrounds Warfare”, is to be released. It contains scenes of such with their comrades in their declining years, would brutality that even the manufacturers have put warnings unfortunately all be cut under the rather ill-thought-out in the game telling people how they can skip particular plans of members of his Front Bench. 11 Oral Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 12

Competitive Sport (Schools) The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): In the run-up to 10. Mr. Adam Holloway (Gravesham) (Con): What the 2012 Olympics and Paralympics, as part of our his policy is on the promotion of competitive sport in legacy promises, we want to create a world-class system of PE and sport for young people in England. We have schools; and if he will make a statement. [298020] raised our ambitions to offer every child five hours of high quality PE and sport per week, with three hours The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, for 16 to 19-year-olds. Between 2008 and 2011 we are Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): Under this investing over £780 million through the PE and sport Government, there has been record investment in school strategy for young people, bringing total Government sport—more than £2 billion since 2003. From an estimated investment to more than £2.4 billion since 2003. one in four young people doing two hours a week of sport in school in 2002, 90 per cent. are now doing two David T.C. Davies: I wonder whether the Minister hours, and more than half are doing three hours. We shares my concern that some of the money that could have raised admission to offer every young person five be spent on building good sports facilities for young hours per week, with three hours for 16 to 19-year-olds; people is being spent on paying very large salaries and 32 per cent. already do that amount, and we are making expenses for people running the Olympic games, and access to regular competitive sport a key part of our some of the money finding its way into schools is being proposed new pupil guarantee. spent on computer games consoles. Does he think that that is a good use of public money? Mr. Holloway: How can we give support to competitive sport in schools when national lottery funding has gone Mr. Sutcliffe: Investment in the Olympics is superb down by more than 50 per cent. since 1997? and the whole country will benefit from the Olympic games being held in London. The people contributing Mr. Sutcliffe: We fund school sport in a variety of to the success of the building of the stadiums and the ways, including direct funding from Government. The people involved in organising and running the games hon. Gentleman will congratulate the Government on are doing a fantastic job. The inspiration from the the £100 million we are spending on school sport, Olympic games as well as the decade of sport that we although he may be embarrassed by the performance of are undertaking will mean that young people from all the previous Conservative Government on school sport. over the UK benefit from sport and have the opportunity I hope he will support all the initiatives that we are to lead healthier lives. taking forward. Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester, South) (Lab): I welcome Mr. Don Foster (Bath) (LD): Regarding the Minister’s the Minister’s statement in response to the question. target for 16 to 19-year-olds, will he confirm that currently Does he agree that it is particularly important to give 63 per cent. of 16-year-olds and 81 per cent. of 19-year-olds support to sport for young people with special needs? are not meeting the target? With fewer than 1,000 days Will he join me in welcoming the work of the Special to go before the target is meant to be achieved, what Olympics movement in the UK and the very successful new policies does he have? Will he at least look at young Special Olympics that were held in my constituency in offender institutions, where the target is already being Leicester this year? exceeded? Mr. Sutcliffe: I am happy to praise the Special Olympic Mr. Sutcliffe: I was previously the Minister with movement and Leicester, the people of Leicester and responsibility for prisoners and young offenders, so I my hon. Friend for the work that they carried out in am pleased that sport is taking place in young offender order to hold successful games in July. My right hon. institutions. I am able now, in the role of Minister for Friend the Minister for the Olympics was at the opening sport, to make sure that a growing number of children ceremony and I was heavily involved in the organisation participate in school sport. The 16 to 19 age group is of the games. It shows that sport should be available to difficult but we are making sure, through investment in everybody. The Special Olympics is a movement that whole sport plans, that governing bodies tackle those I want to support to make sure that sport can reach areas where there are difficulties in recruiting people all parts. into sport. The good news is that we are offering a diversity of sport. Gone is the stereotyping whereby Mr. Humfrey Malins (Woking) (Con): May I stress to boys played cricket, football and rugby, and girls played the Minister the importance of team sport, especially netball and hockey. We are offering many more sports for young men? Those who play team sport in our so that young people have alternatives and can have a young offender institutions are less likely to reoffend go at different sports, rather than only the traditional when they come out. Given the importance of team ones, because there are many other things that young sport, what can he tell us about promoting team sport, people can do. especially among young men? Mr. Sutcliffe: It is important that we promote sport Sport (Young People) in all its forms because sport can raise individual self-esteem, teach people about team work and help us with other 11. David T.C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): What life skills that we need. We have made it the responsibility steps he is taking to encourage young people to of sports governing bodies to develop and grow their participate in sport; and if he will make a statement. sports. They know their sports best. We are looking to [298021] them and we will measure how successful they are in 13 Oral Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 14 making sure that team and individual sports grow, so Sir Nicholas Winterton: Does the Minister accept that everybody has the opportunity to reach our ambitious that that is a tragedy? In many urban areas outside target of 2 million more people being involved in sport towns and in many rural areas, the pub is the only social and physical activity by 2012. community facility. Will the Government introduce some policies to try to preserve pubs in this country, even if Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab): Racism that goes against their inclination to increase tax on in sport is one thing that can put off young people and beer? Beer is a popular British tradition. I like it, people others. The Commission for Equality and Human Rights like it, let us keep it. seems completely uninterested in doing anything whatever about that under the useless . Can the Mr. Sutcliffe: Of course, tax is a matter for the Minister do anything to encourage the CEHR to take Chancellor and the Treasury, and I am sure that the the issue seriously? Chancellor will have heard the hon. Gentleman’s comments. However, I agree that pubs play a major role in our Mr. Sutcliffe: I congratulate my hon. Friend on being communities, whether in urban or rural areas. We have a marvellous advocate for sport free of racism. I am been happy to support the community pubs initiative; concerned about his feelings and will write to him in we are supporting the sector where we can; and I due course and make sure that we raise the issue in the was happy to respond to and, indeed, accept most of appropriate places. the recommendations concerning pub closures from the all-party beer group, chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Selby (Mr. Grogan). We have to accept that Overseas Tourists there has been a change in drinking culture, with people having different drinks, but we certainly want to support 13. Mr. Hugo Swire (East Devon) (Con): How many community pubs, and we will do our best to make sure overseas tourists visited England in each of the last thatwedoso. three years; and if he will make a statement. [298023] Football Stadiums The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Margaret Hodge): The number of overseas 15. Mr. Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Whether tourists who visited England in each of the past three the Government provide support to football clubs to years is as follows: in 2006, 27,586,288; in 2007, 27,794,425; improve or develop their stadiums. [298025] in 2008, 27,291,584. Figures for 2009 show a downward trend in numbers, reflecting the global recession and particularly a downturn in business tourism. However, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, spend by those tourists is up by 2 per cent. compared to Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): The Government last year. In the month of July, domestic tourism increased currently do not provide any financial support to improve by 20 per cent. compared with July 2008, which is the or develop professional football club stadiums. However, best figure we have had for quite a long time. the football stadia improvement fund, which is funded equally by the premier league and the Football Association and administered by the Football Foundation, has to Mr. Swire: I am glad to say that many of those date invested more than £100 million in 1,099 projects. tourists from overseas are coming to this country, not My Department also sponsors the work of the Football least on account of the euro, and coming to the south-west, Licensing Authority, which, by working with clubs, where we have a huge amount of furnished holiday local authorities and the emergency services, will help lettings. The Minister will be aware that the Government to ensure that our football stadiums are some of the have said that the furnished holiday lettings tax regime safest in the world. needs to change. Why does she think that it needs to change, with the European view having been taken on Mr. Hollobone: Would the Minister for Sport accept so quickly? Has she heard from her European counterparts an invitation from me to visit Kettering Town football about whether they wish to implement those tax changes? club for its FA cup second round clash with Leeds United, when he might be able to discuss with the club Margaret Hodge: I have not heard from my European and its fans potential Government support, through counterparts, but I reassure the hon. Gentleman that I planning guidelines or finance, for the redevelopment of am in close discussion with Treasury colleagues on that the stadium? issue. Mr. Sutcliffe: I might take the hon. Gentleman up on Public Houses (Closures) his offer, as the next game is against Leeds United, and Kettering beat Hartlepool 1-0 on Saturday. That shows 14. Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): that the Sport Minister is well informed. The serious What estimate he has made of the number of public point is that clubs such as Kettering Town act as a houses that have closed in the last 12 months. [298024] strong community focus, and if there are issues about planning or any other areas where we can offer support, we will do that. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): We understand that in June this year, CGA Strategy, the pub and drinks Topical Questions market analyst that tracks the pub closure rate on behalf of the British Beer and Pub Association, estimated T1. [298029] Mr. John Grogan (Selby) (Lab): If he will that 2,377 pubs had closed over the previous 12 months. make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. 15 Oral Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 16

The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport T3. [298031] Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk) (Mr. Ben Bradshaw): My Department has a broad range (Con): Is the Secretary of State aware that numerous of responsibilities. Today I had the privilege to open grass-roots community groups in my constituency have with the German ambassador an art installation by a received welcome grants from the excellent Awards for young Welsh artist and a young German artist to All scheme? Why has that scheme now been scrapped? commemorate the happy events in 20 years ago. It is an ice wall in the middle of the street outside the Margaret Hodge: It has not. German embassy in Belgrave square, not far from here; and, if hon. Members get the chance, it is well worth T6. [298035] Ann Coffey (Stockport) (Lab): My right seeing before it melts. hon. Friend will be aware of the strong interest of north-west publishers, including the publishers of the Mr. Grogan: Will Ministers urge Ofcom to press Manchester Evening News and the Stockport Express, ahead with remedies for excessive concentration in the in becoming the English pilot for regional news. Can he pay TV market—BSkyB accounts for 85 per cent. of all give me any further information as to the time scale for subscriptions—and so increase choice, value and making that decision? competition for TV viewers across the range of cable, satellite and broadband platforms? Mr. Bradshaw: I am well aware of, and gratified by, the strong interest in the north-west—as in most of Mr. Bradshaw: I am sure that Ofcom will have heard the English regions and in Scotland and Wales—in the the words of my hon. Friend, who has submitted his Government’s proposals to help to save the very important own representations to its review. It is not up to me to service of regional news. We hope to proceed with this tell Ofcom how to conduct its reviews—it is an independent as soon as possible. We will be going out to tender regulator—but so far it has conducted them well and shortly, and we hope to announce by March the preferred speedily, and I expect this one to be no different. bidders for the English region chosen and for Wales and Scotland. T2. [298030] Mr. (Forest of Dean) (Con): Rural areas such as mine often have slower broadband T5. [298033] David T.C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): speeds than in urban areas, which damages consumers Could one of the Ministers tell us why people who are and business. The Secretary of State’s solution is a registered blind still have to pay 50 per cent. of their broadband tax. We do not support that, but since he TV licence? Is it so that the BBC can continue to bribe does, can he confirm that the £150 million or so that people with London living allowances to live in it will raise each year means that it will take some Manchester? 20 years to pay for the necessary investment? Mr. Bradshaw: The hon. Gentleman will be aware Mr. Bradshaw: No. The hon. Gentleman is assuming that that issue was discussed in great detail at the time that that will be the only source of funding, but it will of the last licence fee review. As he will be aware, this be pump-priming. We have come up with the idea of a Government introduced concessions for TV licences for modest levy which represents a smaller amount than the elderly, but there was no consensus, in this House or that which people have saved from their fixed lines among several different organisations representing different because of the reductions in bills over recent years, yet interest groups, on who else should be added to the his party has come up with absolutely no solutions list—so none was added. The time to make those for funding. It is amazing to me that Conservative representations is during the next licence review; given Members, who represent rural areas in particular—it is what he says, I am sure that he will do that. the rural areas that will lose out, because the market will not deliver broadband to them—have so far offered Miss Anne Begg (Aberdeen, South) (Lab): Have my no solution. We have a solution; I hope that he will right hon. and hon. Friends had a discussion with STV support it. about the reconfiguration of its news programmes? People are very concerned about that in the north-east T4. [298032] David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) of Scotland, particularly in my constituency, where (Lab/Co-op): Tory-dominated Leicestershire county broadcasts are made under what used to be the Grampian council is ignoring Disraeli’s aphorism, “The most licence—the studios are in my constituency.I am concerned successful man is he who has the best information”, in that that area of news will be sucked into Glasgow and planning to slash spending by replacing dozens of have a central-belt bias. professional librarians with self-service machines. Will the Minister ensure that library services in Mr. Bradshaw: I was in Glasgow last week discussing Leicestershire and elsewhere are protected from such that very matter with the director of STV, who assured miserly cuts by making this vital service a statutory me that its plans for the future would safeguard and one? build on the local and sub-regional provision to which STV is committed. In order to do that, however, it needs The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media to have a sustainable funding model. That is why it is and Sport (Margaret Hodge): The service is already important that Members in all parts of the House get statutory under the Public Libraries and Museums behind and support our proposals for these regional—or, Act 1964. Local authorities have a duty to provide a in the case of Scotland, independently funded—news comprehensive and efficient library service. I hope shortly consortiums to put regional news on a long-term sustainable to publish a consultation paper so that we can discuss footing. Without some level of intervention, the market how libraries can be fit for purpose in the 21st century. will not sustain it for the long term. 17 Oral Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 18

Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): T9. [298038] Mr. Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Does the Secretary of State agree that, if we are serious Rugby has Twickenham, football has Wembley, and about growing our creative economy and determined now volleyball has Kettering. Would the Minister like that artists and creators are properly rewarded for their to congratulate the English Volleyball Association on work, we must effectively challenge illegal file sharing choosing Kettering for its national training and and end the something-for-nothing culture that exists competition centre, which opened at the weekend? online? Will he assure me that when he brings forward the digital economy Bill he will consider all necessary The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, measures to protect the 2 million jobs in the creative Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): Of course I industries and ensure that creators are properly rewarded would love to do that—congratulations to Kettering. for the work that they produce? The world-class facilities that we now have up and down the country show that the investment that we have Mr. Bradshaw: I am delighted to have that level of put into sport is coming to fruition. There are world-class support from the hon. Gentleman, which is perhaps not facilities not only for elite sport but for community and surprising given his previous career. Yes, I will do that, school sport. and he is right to highlight the importance of the creative industries to the UK economy. Not many people Mr. Tom Watson (West Bromwich, East) (Lab): Following realise this, but the United Kingdom is No. 1 in the on from the question asked by the hon. Member for world in the proportion of gross domestic product in Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), can the the creative industries. This Government want to ensure Secretary of State guarantee that if the additional income that we stay that way. generated by his measures to cut off illegal file sharers does not exceed the cost of the regulatory burden, he David Cairns (Inverclyde) (Lab): On his visit to Glasgow, will shelve his plans? the Secretary of State heard the good news from BBC Scotland about the increase in programmes made in Mr. Bradshaw: I would think that that is highly Scotland that are shown throughout the network. Does unlikely in practice. As my hon. Friend knows, the film he agree that the timetable for meeting its target by 2016 industry alone estimates that it is currently losing is a bit generous, and that it could do it more quickly? £200 million a year because of theft from illegal file sharing. I suggest that the regulatory costs of introducing Mr. Bradshaw: I have some sympathy with that, and the legislation will not get anywhere near that amount. in my conversations with the senior BBC management in Scotland they seemed to acknowledge that they Christopher Fraser (South-West Norfolk) (Con): During could do it a bit quicker than that. business questions last week I called for a debate on the legacy of the London Olympics and was told to bring T7. [298036] Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) up the subject today, so I am. Given that there is (Con): A redundant church in Macclesfield, Christ genuine concern about the promise of increased grass-roots church, in the centre of the town, is a magnificent participation in sport not being delivered upon, and the part of Macclesfield’s heritage. With a certain amount fact that there are 1,000 days between now and the of money spent on it, it could become a wonderful Olympics, will the Secretary of State join my call for a community facility. The Churches Conservation Trust debate on this very important subject as soon as possible? does not have a great deal of funds. Will the Minister meet me and the CCT to discuss the matter, so that that Mr. Bradshaw: The hon. Gentleman is wrong. Both building can be saved and used for the benefit of our targets—1 million extra people becoming physically people? active and 1 million extra people becoming involved in sport—are on target, and we will deliver them. Margaret Hodge: I would be delighted to meet the hon. Gentleman, and of course there are other opportunities Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab): There for funding to turn some of our churches into facilities are huge discrepancies in Arts Council revenue and that are open to the community. grant funding in and the black country boroughs. For example, Birmingham receives 15 times Linda Gilroy (Plymouth, Sutton) (Lab/Co-op): In per capita the amount that Wolverhampton does. Will considering regional news pilots, will my right hon. the Minister please look into that? Friend the Secretary of State take into account the experience of the consolidation of ITV news programmes, Margaret Hodge: Indeed I will. It is really important and also the quality of media such as we find in the that there is a proper regional spread of Arts Council south-west? funding, and more important that funding is not concentrated in the regional cities but goes out to all the Mr. Bradshaw: Yes. My hon. Friend and her constituents surrounding areas. in Plymouth have suffered in the same way as mine in from the deterioration in both the quality and Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I congratulate localness of regional news provided by ITV in the past the Secretary of State on being voted Stonewall politician 12 months. That is exactly why the Government have of the year, but I am somewhat disappointed to find brought forward our proposals. Not only do I think that in the annual review for ministerial responsibilities, that we can avert any further decline, but I think that we he has been demoted to the bottom of the Cabinet. can return to much higher-quality and more local news Does the Prime Minister not share the other organisation’s provision on ITV with those proposals. view of him? 19 Oral Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 20

Mr. Bradshaw: I do not know to what list the hon. best possible market conditions, but the formula for Gentleman is referring, but I suspect that it is the list distribution and reimbursement of the lottery remains that is regularly published. I suspect the reason why I the same. am 14th or last or whatever it is in the list is that I am the most recently appointed. Site Landscaping

4. Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York) (Con): What recent developments there have been in landscaping the OLYMPICS site of the London 2012 Olympics. [298004]

Tessa Jowell: I know that the hon. Lady has a great The Minister for the Olympics was asked— interest in the matter of landscaping in the Olympic park, which is progressing well. Land is being prepared Budget for planting, including the installation of drainage and extensive irrigation systems. Last week Her Majesty the 1. Mr. David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) Queen planted the first of what will be 2,012 trees in the (Con): What recent discussions she has had on the size park—a mature willow tree grown in Milton Keynes. In of the Olympic budget; and if she will make a fact, the plants for the park have been sourced from statement. [298001] Hampshire, Thetford and Wales. I will shortly announce the result of the great British garden competition run in The Minister for the Olympics (Tessa Jowell): The collaboration with the Royal Horticultural Society. budget of £9.325 billion that I announced in March 2007 remains unchanged. I publish regular quarterly Miss McIntosh: I am delighted that some nurseries economic updates, the next being due at the end of and horticultural companies from the United Kingdom November, and I provide regular financial briefings, will benefit, but can the Minister say for what reason which are sometimes commercially sensitive, to Opposition companies such as Johnsons of Whixley in the north of spokesmen. England, which can source excellent plants for a showcase for the landscaping of the games, have not been chosen? Mr. Evennett: I thank the Minister for her response Will she assure me that such companies are just as on an issue that is of considerable concern to my eligible for the competition as others in the UK? constituents, who will be paying quite an amount and footing a lot of the bill for the Olympics, which we Tessa Jowell: Obviously, I cannot specifically comment strongly support. However, will she give details about on that business, which I believe is local to the hon. which operations will be scaled back if there is a shortfall Lady’s constituency, but all such contracts will be advertised in sponsorship or private sector investment? on the CompeteFor website. We are very fortunate with the very wide range of horticultural suppliers, and I Tessa Jowell: First, I am quite sure that the hon. urge all horticulturalists in her constituency to bid Gentleman’s constituents will celebrate with the rest of again. London when the games are held. It is important to remember that 89 per cent. of the budget is being borne Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): What by sources other than London. Every host city makes a assessment has the Minister made of the role that contribution. volunteers could play in the landscaping of the site? She On the hon. Gentleman’s point about scaling back, will be aware that 250,000 people have already volunteered. the London Organising Committee, which is a private Will she ensure that they are brought into use as soon as company, is on target, even during a recession, with its possible—indeed, given those volunteering opportunities sponsorship income budget. Of course, we keep these immediately? things under regular review, but the committee should be congratulated on its success. Tessa Jowell: I agree with the hon. Gentleman that there is a tremendous enthusiasm for people giving their Hugh Robertson (Faversham and Mid-Kent) (Con): time as part of the Olympics, not only in London but According to the memorandum of understanding signed around the country. We want to ensure that that energy between the Minister and the previous Mayor in June and that will to give time, motivated by the Olympics, is 2007, the national lottery is due to be repaid once the fully utilised in a variety of ways, and we will make London Development Agency has recovered its land announcements about that at the beginning of next acquisition and disturbance costs. In that memorandum year. On his point about involving volunteers in the of understanding, it was explicitly stated that those park, some 20 primary schools—the construction crew— costs were not expected to exceed £650 million. Is that take part in such activities. I know that the organising estimate still accurate? committee and the delivery authority will want to maximise that. Tessa Jowell: The figure that was used in the memorandum of understanding, as the hon. Gentleman Educational Materials will remember, was the most conservative figure at the time, which represented the lowest point in performance 5. Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): What discussions she of land sales for a 20-year period. Obviously, given the has had with the Secretary of State for Children, Schools impact of the global downturn on land prices, decisions and Families on the development of educational materials about the sale of the Olympic lands will be taken in the based on the London 2012 Olympics. [298005] 21 Oral Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Oral Answers 22

Tessa Jowell: The opportunities for children in schools Tessa Jowell: My hon. Friend has a great record in are enormous. We have already announced the Get Set championing tough action against the exploitation— programme, which is in 12,000 schools. It involves young [Interruption.] people in Olympic-related projects, which are a reflection of Olympic and Paralympic values. I encourage hon. Mr. Speaker: Order. I apologise for interrupting the Members to encourage their local schools to become Minister. I do not know how detectable it is elsewhere, involved in the programme if they have not already but within the Chamber there are far too many private done so. conversations taking place—[Interruption.] Order. I need no help from the hon. Member for Wantage Nia Griffith: Does the Minister agree that, in addition (Mr. Vaizey). To put it bluntly, it is straightforward bad to the economic benefits that can come to Wales and manners for people to witter away from a sedentary other parts of the UK through hosting Olympic teams, position when a question is being asked or answered. we should do everything that we can to encourage community groups and schools to take advantage of all Tessa Jowell: Major sporting events in the past have the possible cultural exchange and understanding that seen increases in sex trafficking and the exploitation of can take place? young men and women. We are absolutely determined to take every pre-emptive action that we can, with the Tessa Jowell: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and Metropolitan and with established voluntary I know that she regularly raises this point on behalf of organisations, to ensure that the London 2012 Olympics her constituents. There are benefits to be gained for the do not become a target for that vile trade and are not whole country. She rightly refers to the cultural Olympiad tainted as a result. and I am sure that her constituents will have noticed that the steel for the aquatic centre was rolled in Neath. : The Minister will be aware that The whole country is supplying materials for the Olympic last week the House of Lords concurred with this park, and that can be an inspiration for communities House that if a man seeks to pay for sex with a woman and constituencies such as hers. who is trafficked or bullied into prostituting herself, he is thereby committing an offence. Will my right hon. Budget Friend convene a meeting with the Mayor of London and others involved in the Olympics to consider how 7. Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk) (Con): they can publicise that new offence in advance of the When she next expects to meet the London Organising Olympics, so that people are not inadvertently caught Committee for the Olympic games to discuss the because there is sex trafficking associated with it? budget for the London 2012 Olympics. [298007] Tessa Jowell: I am very happy to accept my hon. Tessa Jowell: I meet the chairman and chief executive Friend’s suggestion of convening a meeting of all interested of the London Organising Committee of the Olympic parties, to ensure both that we take effective action to Games and Paralympic Games on a regular basis. We deal with that potential problem and that men and discuss a range of issues, including its budget for staging women—young men may be open to exploitation as the games, and the Government’s budget for construction, well as young women—are aware of their rights. The security and wider delivery. other important thing is to ensure that a clear message goes out to the traffickers that there is no point in Mr. Bellingham: Can the Minister confirm that the coming to London. LOCOG budget will be met 100 per cent. by the private sector, and that there will be no recourse to funding Mr. Anthony Steen (Totnes) (Con) rose— from taxpayers’ funds? Mr. Speaker: If it is to be brief. Tessa Jowell: The organising committee is confident that its budget is secure. There are obviously aspects of Mr. Steen: As always, Mr. Speaker. staging the games that rightly fall to the public sector The Minister says that she will work with the Met, yet and some are shared responsibilities, including some the Met is planning to disband the Human Trafficking aspects of security and other areas that we are working Centre in London. Bearing in mind that the traffickers through with the organising committee at the moment. see the Olympics as a honeypot, how can she tolerate There is general confidence in the excellent success that that? it has had in raising money. Tessa Jowell: The hon. Gentleman has a strong record Sex Industry in this area, and I would be happy to talk with him further about the issue. There is already a dedicated 8. Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): Whether she has group in the Met working with the five boroughs, but I commissioned any research on the effect of increased want the House to be under no misapprehension about visitor numbers for the London 2012 Olympics on how seriously the threat is taken. It is planning, well in demand for the sex industry; and if she will make a advance of the games, that will ensure that it does not statement. [298008] materialise. 23 9 NOVEMBER 2009 FOI Request (Immigration) 24

FOI Request (Immigration) clearing immigration applicants so that those who had been waiting more than 12 months would be granted clearance to stay without any further investigation into 3.32 pm their cases? Will he also confirm that the head of the (Epsom and Ewell) (Con) (Urgent Immigration and Nationality Directorate said in an Question): To ask the Minister for Borders and Immigration e-mail to the then Minister that that involved if he will make a statement on the Freedom of Information “pragmatic grants, i.e. not pursing every angle which could conceivably Act investigation into the withholding of immigration justify a refusal”, documents. and that the policy meant that “some risks would have to be taken”? The Minister for Borders and Immigration (Mr. Phil Will he also confirm that Ministers were aware of that Woolas): This relates to a policy to clear a backlog of policy change and that they accepted that it involved general immigration cases between 2002 and 2004. The taking risks with immigration applications? incidents in question happened more than five years Then there was the cover-up. Will the Minister confirm ago and were the subject of a full inquiry by Ken Sutton that the tried to withhold documents at the time, in 2004. The Home Office accepted that outlining that policy change from the Information report in full and implemented all the recommendations Commissioner? I have copies of those documents, and made. The report can be read on the website and has they are clearly marked “withold” at the top. Will he been there since 2004. also confirm that the Information Commissioner found A request for information from a Mr. Steve Moxon the Home Office guilty of breaking the law, and ordered was received in January 2005. We have followed the the documents marked “withhold” to be released? Will processes as set out in the Freedom of Information Act. he tell the House why Ministers broke the laws that this Some information was released when first requested. As Government had passed? the Act allows, some information was initially withheld The says that he wants a rational on the basis of an exemption under the Freedom of debate on immigration, but why on earth does he think Information Act 2000. The exemptions used were anyone will take him seriously in that debate when it is sections 36(2)(b)(i) and (ii), which relate to prejudice to now clear that this Government have set out deliberately the free and frank provision of advice and exchange of to deceive the British people, and have proved utterly views. Those are qualified exemptions, subject to a incapable of telling them the truth about their policies public interest test, which means that they can be applied on immigration. only where the public interest in disclosure is outweighed by that against. The decision was appealed by the individual under the process laid out in the Act. After Mr. Woolas: Mr. Speaker, I seek your guidance on the consideration of that appeal, we upheld our decision. hon. Gentleman’s accusation that Ministers deliberately deceived the British public. In line with the procedures set out in legislation, the appellant exercised his right to appeal to the Information Commissioner. In March 2009, the Information Mr. Speaker: My understanding is that no personal Commissioner ruled that further information should charge against an individual Minister has been levelled— be disclosed. We then released that information in [Interruption.] Order. Secondly, the hon. Gentleman is April 2009. absolutely entitled to seek a ruling on the matter. The infraction occurs if a Member accuses another Member of misleading the House or of dishonesty to the House. Chris Grayling: This morning the Home Secretary I was listening intently, and I have quite big ears, but I used the front page of a national newspaper to say that did not hear that. he wanted to start a national debate about immigration. It is a shame that he is not here to start that debate this afternoon. Mr. Woolas: I am very grateful, Mr. Speaker, for your confirmation that that was not the accusation by the More and more evidence is now emerging to suggest Opposition spokesman, who has just, in this House, that the Government broke freedom of information accused Ministers of breaking the law. laws and tried to cover up a deliberate change of policy designed to encourage much higher immigration, very Perhaps I could address what is clearly the hon. probably for party political purposes. Gentleman’s latest political gimmick. He seems to ascribe to Ministers a motive that he had when he made his Two weeks ago, a former Home Office adviser, Andrew rather embarrassing gaffe at the Conservative party Neather, was widely reported as saying that Ministers conference. He has brought before the House this had covered up a secret plan to allow in more immigrants afternoon—[Interruption.] These are serious accusations. and to make Britain more multicultural. When I put those allegations to the Minister, he said, quite extraordinarily, that he had not and that he did Mr. Speaker: Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Gentleman. The hon. Member for , South “not know to whom or to which reports the hon. Gentleman (Richard Ottaway) has relatively recently toddled into refers.” the Chamber—[Interruption.] —[Official Report, House of Commons, 26 October 2009; Vol. 498, c. 7.] Richard Ottaway (Croydon, South) (Con) rose— Let us hope that he can do better today. First, there was what was originally a secret plan. Mr. Speaker: Order. If the hon. Gentleman came in Will the Minister confirm that what he was talking earlier, so be it—I am happy to concede the point—but about back in 2002 was a relaxation of the rules for I am concerned with the issue of substance. I do not 25 FOI Request (Immigration)9 NOVEMBER 2009 FOI Request (Immigration) 26 want sedentary chuntering of the kind in which he fact is that there are those on the Conservative Benches regularly indulges. I do not want to hear that. who talk about civil liberties, and others who talk about the need for databases to control migration. The Mr. Woolas: Let me explain the background to the Conservatives have to make their minds up. At least the House. As I said in my answer to the urgent question, hon. Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne) is consistent. the policy issues were dealt with thoroughly and comprehensively by the Sutton inquiry, and are not the Keith Vaz (Leicester, East) (Lab): The Minister and subject of the question tabled today. That rather reveals the head of the UK Border Agency gave evidence to the the motive for asking the question. The hon. Gentleman Select Committee last Tuesday, and the Minister gave us referred to Mr. Neather, the a number of important facts and figures. Will he confirm correspondent, who wrote in that paper on 26 October: that none of the issues that are before the House today “My views have been twisted out of all recognition.” will have any effect on the veracity of the information that he gave last Tuesday, and that he stands by the That is what Mr. Neather, whom the hon. Gentleman figures that he gave us? There are also some outstanding prays in aid, said. points from that meeting. Will he ensure that a reply On the freedom of information request, the serious to those points reaches the Committee by Friday of allegation was that we broke the law. In fact, the instruction this week? from the Information Commissioner was issued on 5 March 2009, and on 9 April, in line with that ruling, Mr. Woolas: I am grateful to the Chairman of the we disclosed the information—to little or no comment Select Committee. The answer to his first question is at the time, if I may say so. That again calls into yes. Nothing in the question and answer today in any question the hon. Gentleman’s motive in asking this way affects the veracity of the evidence given to the question. Select Committee last week. Indeed, the question today The plain fact about the policy issue in 2004, which is about the allegation that we have broken the law in was the subject of debate at the time, is that the then applying the Freedom of Information Act, and that is Minister acted entirely honourably. I do not know something that I absolutely reject. It is a very serious whether she is in her place now, but hon. Members will accusation. The policy that I have been asked about recall that my right hon. Friend the Member for Stretford today relates to incidents between 2002 and 2004. Regarding and Urmston () acted entirely honourably the specific answers that my right hon. Friend requested and took full responsibility for what happened at the by his deadline of Friday, or a week Friday, I hope that time. The backlog legacy programme that was put in he will forgive me if—he is not nodding; he will not place was designed to deal with a backlog that had forgive me. I will do my very best to comply with the accumulated not only under this Government; as I said request of the Chairman of the Select Committee, as I in the House last week, it went back to Willie Whitelaw’s always do. time. Once again, we are having to clear this matter up. David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): In a Chris Huhne (Eastleigh) (LD): We will sustain public spirit of forgiveness, I say this to the Minister: at the consensus behind the value of legal immigration only if time leading up to the resignation of the right hon. controls are effective and illegal immigration is firmly Member for Stretford and Urmston (Beverley Hughes), countered. That has clearly not been the case. First, there were a large number of different failures in the there is clear evidence that immigration policy was to immigration and related systems. If it is true, as has grant applications rather than to refuse them, and to been asserted in the newspapers, that decisions were give the benefit of the doubt to the applicant—a policy taken for political reasons, one of the most important that was never made public or debated in the House. aspects of the matter will have been the reduction or Secondly, throughout this period, the Government did relaxation of the citizenship process, which we know nothing to reinstate the exit checks that the Conservative took place. Did Mr. Ken Sutton investigate that? Administration had begun to abolish. As a result, we have not been able to check whether nearly 2 million Mr. Woolas: There is a conflation of two points people a year who have been issued with short-term there—I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his visas have left again. That is just a large a relaxation of political imagination, but he is talking about different policy as the decision to lean towards approvals. Given things. The issue of controversy was over the then A2 that just 60 per cent. of those leaving this country this applications and how they were dealt with— year can be identified, will the Minister make an urgent commitment to introducing manual exit checks until David Davis: I was there. the e-borders scheme is complete? Will he also estimate how many short-term visa holders have definitely left Mr. Woolas: The right hon. Gentleman says from a the country, and how many have overstayed? Will he sedentary position that he was there; I remember it very commit to managing immigration properly, so that well. He extrapolates from that the accusation that public confidence can be restored? there was a political plot. There is no evidence of such a plot; indeed, the Government’s Immigration and Asylum Mr. Woolas: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for Act 1999 was criticised for being too authoritarian on his support for the border control measures that we are the issue of immigration—[Interruption.] Some right putting in place. Indeed, he and I agree on the need for hon. and hon. Members in their places today criticised those border controls. I wonder whether he will join me it from that point of view. A good effort is going on to in asking the hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris raise a straw man, if I may say so, but as ever with the Grayling), who has tabled the question today, whether Opposition party, there is no substance to the policy he has dropped his opposition to border controls. The because there is no policy. 27 FOI Request (Immigration)9 NOVEMBER 2009 FOI Request (Immigration) 28

Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): Would the Minister Mr. Woolas: I hope that the whole House agrees that agree with me that one of the real sources of poor immigration and customs officials in the UK Border administration in the immigration system are these Agency do an important job professionally and well, delays that the policy which was the subject of the often in very dangerous circumstances, and have to take freedom of information request was designed to address? some very difficult decisions. I remind the House that I have a pile of letters with me that my researchers 285 million people were transited in and out of the expected me to sign, three of which inform my constituents United Kingdom last year, which represents a significant that they should not expect a decision before 2010 in challenge in immigration and customs control. one case and before 2011 in the other two, so what is the Minister doing to speed up this process right now? Anne Main (St. Albans) (Con): The information that was suppressed, and to which we are now privy, contained Mr. Woolas: Again, that question is about current a warning that the policy was not without risk. Has the policy, not about freedom of information. With your Minister made any evaluation of those persons who agreement, Mr. Speaker, may I say that if Members are were let in, and of whether any of that risk has come concerned as to why we are here five years after the to light? events, the timetable of compliance with the FOI shows the Home Office in very good light indeed. Indeed, I Mr. Woolas: I thank the hon. Lady for that question, was surprised that I was able to do to comply so and I take it that she has read the information that has quickly; the delays were not down to the Home Office. been disclosed— On the substance of the question, as I hope my hon. Friend knows, the measures put in place to clear the Anne Main indicated assent. backlog are substantial and, indeed, as I was able to tell the Select Committee, a further 350 extra members of staff are now being deployed. The date to which she Mr. Woolas: She indicates that she has, in which case refers is the end-date, the date by which we will have she will be able to confirm that the information was cleared all the backlogs. Again, we recognised the problem checked for all people, as is always the case, against the and took action to address it. The MPs correspondence watch lists. That was said at the time. The Brace—backlog tracker system, which I will take this opportunity to reduction accelerated clearance exercise—operation, as advertise, is a superb service to Members who currently it was known in 2002-04, replicated guidelines that had send 60,000 letters a year to me and my colleagues. been used in the past by Governments of all persuasions. However, I can reassure the hon. Lady on the point that she raises. Mr. Speaker: Order. May I just say to the Minister of State that the dividing line between comprehensiveness and prolixity is thin, but I fear that he has just crossed Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab): Does it? my hon. Friend agree that the major issue is not the alleged cover-up of an alleged immigration policy, but Mr. James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): Does not the problem of the overt immigration policy of unrestricted this information reveal a culture of risk-taking and free movement of labour in the European Union? laxity in government? Is there not a danger of this culture continuing when, as the Home Affairs Select Mr. Woolas: At the time, the A2 countries were not Committee learned last week, the points-based system members. My hon. Friend follows such issues carefully, overrides the discretion of individual immigration officers and he will have noted the statement that I laid before even when they entertain the gravest of doubts about the House last week on extending the restrictions to A2. people seeking to enter the United Kingdom. May we I note that he welcomes that. I am grateful to him for have an immediate review rather than have to wait for giving me the opportunity to bring that to your attention, another sorry performance like the Minister’s today? Mr. Speaker—[Interruption.] No, I am grateful, because it is a good policy, and I suspect that no one was aware Mr. Woolas: The hon. Gentleman has reported back of it before now. from the Select Committee in a way that does not reflect what I told that Committee. The allegation that immigration Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Why did the officers and entry clearance officers do not have those Government change policy in a way that led to such a powers is simply not the case. If the hon. Gentleman is huge increase in inward migration? suggesting that an immigration officer should be able to refuse entry into this country—without any reason, Mr. Woolas: One of the pieces of propaganda being when that is the point in guidance and indeed in law—then put around is that, somehow or other, there was a let him say so. I would bet that those on my side of the deliberate Act of Parliament, or policy decision, to House for one would not wish to see that. expand immigration. As I said a moment ago, the legal framework under which the Government operated in Nigel Griffiths (Edinburgh, South) (Lab): May I welcome 1997 was the British Nationality Act 1981 brought in by the Minister’s statement? At a time when visa and entry the Conservative party. We introduced the Immigration clearance officers are under criticism, often unfairly, and Asylum Act 1999, which strengthened our immigration may I ask him to convey to his staff my deep gratitude controls, and some years later reintroduced the very for their compassionate handling of the case of Kenny border controls that allow us to control and manage Chan in my constituency, whose funeral I am attending migration and that the Conservative party got rid of in tomorrow? His Chinese girlfriend, and main carer, Bo 1994. Will the hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell Ji, has been allowed through discretion to come into the therefore drop his opposition to our electronic border country, and we are deeply grateful to those staff. system—the very system that protects our borders? 29 FOI Request (Immigration) 9 NOVEMBER 2009 30

Mr. Speaker: Order. I do not think that we will go Energy National Policy Statements into that today.

Mr. Andrew Pelling (Croydon, Central) (Ind): There 3.56 pm are no more Conservatives who would be able to answer The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change such a question. Will the Minister accept, however, that (Edward Miliband): With permission, I shall make a the shadow Home Secretary put the question in the statement about the energy national policy statements context of the Home Secretary’s desire to have a much and our proposals on clean coal. more open, tolerant debate about the issue of migration, which is healthy in terms of trying to ensure that people In the summer we published the low carbon transition do not vote for extremist parties at the next election? In plan, which explained how we would meet our commitments doing so, is it right to recognise that immigration policy to carbon reduction for 2020 and beyond. New was too liberal, with too many mistakes, which puts infrastructure is being provided for the coming years, stresses and strains on the provision of services to with 20 GW under construction or consented to—more others, especially in Croydon where the immigration than the amount that will close by 2018—but in order service is based? to meet our low-carbon energy challenge, and owing to the intermittency of wind, we shall need significantly more generating capacity in the longer term. As our Mr. Woolas: We are very grateful to the good people documents explain, over the next 15 years to 2025, one of Croydon, which, as the hon. Gentleman says, is our third of that larger future generating capacity must be major base. The fact is that the major pieces of consented to and built. Given that challenge, the imperative legislation—the 1961 Bill that led to the Commonwealth of reform in the planning system is clear. Immigrants Act 1962, the Immigration Act 1971 and the British Nationality Act 1981—are the framework The current system is characterised by duplication, for immigration in this country, and since 1997 the with several bodies responsible for different aspects of Government have introduced a number of Bills— consent, overlapping responsibilities for politicians and [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Epson and Ewell independent decision makers, and delay. Today, to guide is keen on chunnering—I think that was your phrase, the decision making of the new Infrastructure Planning Mr. Speaker. [Interruption.] Chuntering. I must be Commission, we are setting out for consultation six careful—that is not chumpering, is it? In the debate on draft policy statements on energy, the most important the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill, he criticised being those on the trinity of fuels of our low-carbon the Government for introducing too many immigration future: renewables, nuclear power and clean fossil fuels. Bills. Which is it? Is it that we did not have enough We need all of them in the long term, because the immigration Bills, or too many? He must make his challenge of the low-carbon transition is so significant. mind up. We need renewables, which are a home-grown and plentiful source of supply and are already powering Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): It would be entirely 2 million homes in the UK; we need nuclear power, wrong to cast aspersions on the Minister’s integrity, which is a proven, reliable source of low-carbon energy which is beyond reproach in respect of this and other and an important base load in the system; and we need matters. I am ashamed that Opposition Members should fossil fuels—with carbon capture and storage—which seek to do that. However, will the Minister consider the make possible a flexible peak-load response. uncontrolled immigration from the European Union Last year, offshore wind generation increased by two countries, which may not be totally in the British interest, thirds and onshore wind generation by one quarter. and seek to find a way of reining it in? However, we need to increase the rate of progress significantly in order to meet our objective of 30 per Mr. Woolas: I am grateful for what the hon. Gentleman cent. of our electricity coming from renewables by 2020. has said. The national policy statement on renewables covers The debate on European Union immigration is a onshore renewables over 50 MW and offshore wind debate in which I am more than happy to engage. I am over 100 MW. Other onshore decisions remain with more than happy to justify the benefits gained by the local authorities. The policy statement seeks to strike United Kingdom. I am thinking of, for example, the the right balance between achieving national objectives half million British people who live in Spain, the work and avoiding adverse impacts on the local environment and study opportunities that we have in the European and biodiversity.While Government set out the framework Union, and the story of migration from European in the policy statements, each application will be decided Union countries: migration that has benefited mutually, upon by Infrastructure Planning for instance, Ireland and the United Kingdom, Spain Commission. The IPC will have to take account of and the United Kingdom, and east Europe and the regional and local plans drawn up by local authorities, United Kingdom in the current year, and will no doubt and developers will have to ensure that they have consulted do so in future years. That, however, is a debate from locally before any application is made, with local authorities which the hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell will run a submitting local impact reports. million miles, because it will open up the question of The Infrastructure Planning Commission will make Europe. its decisions on the basis of a clear timetable of a year from the acceptance of an application to a decision. That is a crucial change from the system that operated in the past. This system is right for energy security. By meeting our commitments on renewables we can limit the need for gas imports, holding them at 2010 levels for the rest of the decade. It is also the right thing to do for 31 Energy National Policy Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Energy National Policy Statements 32

[Edward Miliband] without CCS. With immediate effect, in order to gain development consent all new coal plant will have to the environment, because there is no bigger threat to show that it will demonstrate CCS from the outset on our countryside than climate change. But, according to around 400 MW of total output. the estimates that we are publishing today, even given Our plans are based on up to four projects between our ambitious targets for renewables there will be a now and 2020, including up to two post-combustion need for additional new non-renewable power. We need projects and up to two pre-combustion projects. The to use all available low-carbon sources, which is why we pre-combustion demonstration projects are expected to were right to end the moratorium on new nuclear power have 100 per cent. CCS on their coal capacity from day stations in this country last year. In response, energy one. The post-combustion projects will be expected to companies have announced intentions to build 16 GW retrofit CCS to 100 per cent. of their capacity within of new nuclear power. In the spring, we invited comments five years of 2020. That will be enforced by the Environment on the 11 sites that had been nominated for new nuclear, Agency, and there will be a review to confirm it by 2018. all of which are on or near existing nuclear sites. I can If we conclude at that time that CCS will not be proven, tell the House that 10 of the 11 sites have been judged we believe further regulatory measures will be required potentially suitable and have been included in the draft to restrict emissions from these plants, such as through policy statement. The next step will be consultation in an emissions performance standard. the 10 selected sites, as well as nationally. The consultation Even with the right regulation, however, if we leave proposes that the 11th site, Dungeness, not be included the funding of CCS simply to private companies, it will in this national policy statement. That is because, following not happen in time. To make CCS financially viable, our advice from Natural England and others, the Government proposed energy Bill contains powers to introduce the do not believe that a new nuclear power station can be levy to support demonstration that the Chancellor built there without causing an adverse effect on the announced in the Budget; and, in response to points integrity of the internationally unique ecosystem. made in the consultation, the levy will also be available Under the habitats directive, we are obliged to consider to support the move to 100 per cent. retrofit of CCS. alternative nuclear sites. An independent study has suggested Taken together, these policies are the most environmentally that three—Kingsnorth, Druridge Bay and Owston ambitious set of coal conditions of any country in the Ferry—are “worthy of further consideration”. We have world, and they provide the opportunity for Britain to concluded, however, that all of them have serious create thousands of jobs in carbon capture and storage impediments and none of them is credible for deployment throughout our country. by the end of 2025, the period of the policy statement; On coal, nuclear and renewables, the aim of our nor do we believe they are necessary for our plans for national policy statements is clear: consistent with the new nuclear. Therefore, we have excluded all of them advice of the Committee on Climate Change, we need from being potential sites in the draft policy statement. to be on course for the long-term goal of near-zero On waste management, the Government are satisfied carbon emissions from power. In the spring, we will that, on the basis of the science and international publish further work on the pathway from 2020 to 2050 experience, effective arrangements to manage and dispose consistent with this trajectory. of the waste from new nuclear power stations can be Alongside the overall policy statement and those for put in place. In addition, today we are opening consultation nuclear, renewables, fossil fuels and gas storage, we are on the proposed regulatory justification for two different also publishing the policy statement for electricity networks. reactor designs. Together, these documents represent a framework for New nuclear is right for energy security and climate the future of our energy supplies. change, and it will be good for jobs too, creating up to In every area—onshore and offshore wind, and other 9,000 jobs to build and operate power stations at each renewables; nuclear; and clean fossil fuels—there will be site and helping leading companies to access the people who wish to oppose specific planning applications. international market. Their voice must be heard in the process, and we believe As well as renewables and nuclear, the third part of that it will be. The planning process must ensure that we our low-carbon future is clean fossil fuels. There is no give consent to the right projects in the right sites. solution to the problem of climate change either at Although of course we need a process that can turn home or abroad without a solution to the problem of down specific applications, saying no everywhere would coal—cheap and reliable, but the most polluting fuel. not be in the national interest. As a country, we need Already, ¤180 million has provisionally been offered nuclear, renewables and clean coal for our energy future. from the European budget to assist Hatfield power They are necessary for security of supply, tackling station to fit carbon capture and storage, and I can climate change and the future of our economy. That is confirm that we have received bids from E.ON and why we are reforming the planning system and publishing Scottish Power for the next stage of the current CCS our statements today. I urge all those in all parts of the competition for a post-combustion power station. Early House to unite behind these proposals, and I commend next year, we will allocate the up to £90 million that has this statement to the House. been set aside for the bid or bids that will go forward to the detailed design and engineering stage. Our aim is Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con): What we have clear: for carbon capture and storage to be ready to be heard softly spoken is a declaration of a national emergency deployed 100 per cent. on all new coal-fired power for our energy security. The question that the Secretary stations by 2020. We are determined to ensure that, with of State must answer is why did the Government leave the right combination of regulation and incentives, we it so late? The statement is made necessary by the make this happen, so I can confirm that, under our new Government’s admission in July that they expect power framework, there will be no new coal-fired power stations cuts in 2017—that was the first time since the 1970s that 33 Energy National Policy Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Energy National Policy Statements 34 a British Government have had to make such a disclosure. supply on rural district councils, rather than on the void The cause of this national emergency has been obvious in energy policy, will he say why he his statement for many years. Over 12 years, 15 successive Energy proposes no reforms to allow communities to benefit Ministers—a new one every nine months—have behaved from wind farms? A decade on from the renewables like the ostrich and stuck their head in the sand rather target, will he tell us why he left it so late? than face up to the action that was needed to address Britain’s consumers and businesses will pay through our energy black hole. the nose for the last-minute scramble that the Secretary Will the Secretary of State say whether the Government of State has announced today to cope with the black-outs knew that most of our nuclear power stations would that he predicted in July. Will he explain, clearly and reach the end of their planned life before 2017? Will he simply, why the Government have allowed us to get into tell us whether anyone in his Administration was informed this state and will he accompany his response with an that North sea oil and gas production would peak and apology to the British people for 12 years of negligence, fall away? Did anyone tell them that our most polluting for which we are now paying the price? coal-fired power stations were about to close? Every one of the measures contained in this statement should Edward Miliband: It is hard to know where to start have been brought forward 10 years ago, when the with the hon. Gentleman, and not for the right reasons. Government had the chance to secure the investments In the course of the day, he has managed to show a that are so desperately needed to keep the lights on, to unique combination of alarmism and complacency. I keep prices down and to cut carbon emissions. So will say that he has shown alarmism because, if he had he answer the question: why did they leave it so late? listened to my statement, he would have heard me say On the planning statements themselves, we support that if we look ahead to 2018 we will replace the 18 GW the Government, but does the Secretary of State accept of infrastructure that is closing with 20 GW of that to give the certainty that investors require they infrastructure. I know that he is interested in the issue of should be endorsed by a full vote of this House, so that energy unserved, so I direct him to the Redpoint analysis they have the democratic legitimacy that will entrench that we are publishing today, which will show him the them against future judicial review? We agree with him updated figures as a result of the more recent data we that it is absolutely right to create a fast-track planning have. I think that will put him right. process for large infrastructure projects, with a dedicated The hon. Gentleman showed both alarmism and secretariat and time-limited decisions, but does he agree complacency because what he did not say was that he that the final decision should be taken not by an unelected, wants to abolish the Infrastructure Planning Commission. unaccountable official, but by a Secretary of State We have gone through this process of years of reform, responsible to this House? and the business community likes the system and says Nuclear power must be part of a diverse energy mix, that it is the right thing to do. We know that it is provided it is commercially viable, but does the Secretary necessary, as I said in my statement, to make the low-carbon of State accept that it is now too late for nuclear to transition, but now the hon. Gentleman comes along come on stream fast enough to replace our current and says that he wants to abolish the IPC. capacity before it shuts down, and that this will increase What do we have from the Conservative party? The our dependence on gas imports before 2020? The Conservatives say that the Secretary of State would set moratorium was this Government’s and they are responsible the national policy statements and also decide on the for that. Why did they leave things so late? specific applications. What kind of separation of powers On coal, will the Secretary of State confirm that the is that? It would not only be wrong because it would large combustion plant directive will close a third of disrupt a system that is coming into place, and rightly our coal capacity, and that since it was agreed by the so in my view—it will hasten the low-carbon transition Government in 2001 not a single carbon capture and that we need—but wrong in principle, too. storage plant has been authorised to replace that capacity? The hon. Gentleman asked a series of other questions. Will he say which countries, in addition to China, On carbon capture and storage, we still do not know Australia, Canada, Germany, Norway and Belgium, whether the Conservative party supports the levy that have used this delay to overtake Britain in CCS? Will he the Chancellor announced in April. My right hon. say whether 2014 is still the date by which any entry into Friend announced a levy in the Budget in April and the his chaotic CCS competition must be up and running, Opposition say that they will fund CCS from the proceeds or will he confirm what the industry tells me, which is of the EU emissions trading scheme. For six months, I that it has been put back yet again? I note that his have told the hon. Gentleman—as the Treasury has told statement was silent on this. Why did the Government his hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Charles leave it so late on CCS? Hendry)—that those funds are already accounted for in Will the Secretary of State confirm that Germany the national accounts, so it is funny money that the keeps 100 days’ worth of gas in storage and France Conservative party wants to use and we still do not keeps 120 days’ worth, but that Britain has just 15 days’ know whether it supports our carbon capture and storage worth of gas storage? Was his colleague Lord Hunt of levy. Kings Heath right when he said that the current measures The truth is that what we heard from the hon. Member would increase that by just five hours? Why did the for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) is a clear example of Government leave it so late? why the Conservative party is not fit for government. On renewables, will the Secretary of State confirm that Britain has the lowest proportion of energy coming Simon Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) from renewable sources of any EU country, apart from (LD): I thank the Secretary of State for his statement, Malta and Luxembourg? If he intends, once again, to but can he tell us why the press were clearly briefed on entertain us by blaming the gaping hole in our energy Friday, contrary to Mr. Speaker’s ruling, and why the 35 Energy National Policy Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Energy National Policy Statements 36

[Simon Hughes] Edward Miliband rose— statements were supplied to our Whips Office only Mr. Speaker: Order. Before the Secretary of State about 18 minutes before the statement was given in the replies, may I gently say to the hon. Member for North House? Southwark and Bermondsey (Simon Hughes) that he Although the Liberal Democrats have, as the Secretary did somewhat exceed his time? This is not an example of State would expect, consistently supported, and continue that should be imitated by other colleagues. to support, a future with clean fossil fuels and renewable energy, nothing that he has said today about nuclear Edward Miliband: I will try to be brief in reply, power persuades us that the arguments that it is safe Mr. Speaker. Obviously, it pains me to disagree with the and secure have been made in any way that is different hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey from how they have been made in the past. (Simon Hughes), but let me deal with the three specific Will the Secretary of State make it clear that what he points he made. He has an anti-nuclear position. I has announced today are draft policies, and will he tell disagree with it and I shall briefly explain why. us what the timetable is for consultation? Will all We have very ambitious targets for renewables in this the evidence supplied in response be published, and do country. We all know the targets are ambitious, so to the Government still have an open mind on arguments ask—as the hon. Gentleman did—why we are not more that might persuade them that they are going down the ambitious is, frankly, not realistic. We know that we wrong road? Does today’s draft hide within itself the have tough commitments, but looking at our needs in necessary justification of the nuclear policy for European terms of low-carbon energy in the future, it is wrong to Union requirements, because he did not mention that in rule out nuclear power, because I think it can make a his statement at all? real difference. As for the hon. Gentleman’s point about How can the Energy Secretary say that the next nuclear not making a contribution, companies have generation of nuclear power stations are any more already put forward plans—as I said in my statement—for likely to be built without taxpayer subsidy than the last 16 GW of new power, which is significant. generation when he has not decided which sort of The hon. Gentleman made some specific points about power station design to choose or where the sites will nuclear. He said that we had not decided about the be, and when there is no scientifically justified and stations. Actually, we are saying that there is a choice of secure way of disposing of the waste? How can he tell two stations—the Westinghouse station or the AREVA us that he will go ahead with the plan when the Health station. We shall benefit from the fact that the stations and Safety Commission has expressed serious concerns are being built elsewhere, because many of the issues about the proposed designs that are on the table? that could be faced will have already been gone through. How can the Secretary of State tell us that this is the On for coal, let me be absolutely clear: we have said right mix when nuclear power would make so small a that there will be no new coal without CCS. That is contribution to our energy future, and so late in terms absolutely clear. We are absolutely clear about that— of the timetable that he has set out? If he were far more [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman says, “Expected”. ambitious about renewables and willing to invest in No, CCS will have to be demonstrated from the outset them in the way that he has invested in the nuclear in any new coal-fired power station. That is very clear industry in the past, could we not have a safe, reliable from my statement, and he will see it from the and publicly much more acceptable future? Why did he documentation as well. talk about jobs in the nuclear industry but not say a The hon. Gentleman mentioned democratic oversight, word about the much greater potential for jobs in the which comes in the national policy statements, but renewables sector, which is evidently known and supported when those statements are put forward by Ministers it is around the country? right to leave specific questions about specific applications On CCS, can I be clear that the Secretary of State is and developments to an independent body. I think that saying to the House as before that there will be a new will give more assurance in the process, and I wish the generation of coal-fired power stations but they will not hon. Gentleman had supported our proposals today. all have to be CCS-compliant from the beginning of their operation? Some of the next generation will, therefore, Mr. (Kingston upon Hull, East) (Lab): be dirty power stations from the beginning rather than May I congratulate the Secretary of State on his statement? the necessary clean stations. It arises from the planning delay over important national Was there a commitment in the statement to a UK energy requirements. I should like to ask him specifically grid supported and funded by the Government? Was about wind turbine power. As he is aware, we are doing there a commitment to the European supergrid, which well on offshore investment, but not so well in onshore we need if we are to have energy security across the investment, where a great deal more will have to be continent? done. It appears that recently 75 per cent. of applications Finally, as a Labour Minister with all his good democratic have been rejected, often against the advice of planning credentials, the Secretary of State must find it difficult officers, by the elected officials who appear to feel that to come to the House and argue that in future the major they will be overruled anyway. Will my right hon. Friend energy decisions in this country will be taken by an comment on that? We welcome his investment in Yorkshire independent body, not even answerable to Ministers of in the Hatfield plant. the Crown, let alone to the Parliament of the United Kingdom. Is it not the truth that the one thing that has Edward Miliband: My right hon. Friend played an been disposed of is not nuclear waste, because the important role in Kyoto and his advice has been very Secretary of State has no solution for that, but the helpful in the run-up to Copenhagen. He is absolutely democratic process in coming to all those difficult decisions? right. He has been very brave, and has stood up for the 37 Energy National Policy Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Energy National Policy Statements 38 issue of onshore wind and said that we need to go and getting an ambitious deal at Copenhagen. He was ahead with it. He is absolutely right about that. Part of also right, in my view, to rule out a specific public the argument we need to advance in the House and in subsidy for new nuclear, but our focus is on getting that the country is not just for planning reform but for going deal at Copenhagen so that we can ensure a more robust ahead with onshore wind, which is why I wish the carbon price. shadow Business Secretary had not said that he was against all onshore wind. I think it is right that all of us Mr. Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): stand up and say that we need onshore and offshore The Secretary of State said that he foresaw 150 MW of wind. We cannot say no to any of the low-carbon wind power capacity being installed. Can he confirm alternatives. that on average 27 per cent. is the typical usage, so that typically 100 MW of that 150 MW will not be in use at Several hon. Members rose— any one moment?

Mr. Speaker: Order. Thirty hon. and right hon. Members Edward Miliband: I think the right hon. Gentleman are seeking to catch my eye, so brevity is of the essence. has got his megawatts and gigawatts a little confused, if I know that a good example will now be set by the right I may say so. The point I was making in my statement hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and Hythe was the scale of application that would be below or (Mr. Howard). above the threshold. He is right in that wind power is what we call de-rated in terms of its impact on the Mr. (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): electricity system, and the calculations that we put Is the Secretary of State aware that his decision to forward take account of that. exclude Dungeness from his list of preferred sites will be greeted with consternation by many of my constituents, Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent, North) (Lab): What is who will be bemused by the objection of Natural England, there in place to ensure that there will be full environmental having regard to the fact that there are already two impact assessments in order that there can be a level nuclear power stations at Dungeness? Will he assure me playing field for deciding whether to invest in nuclear or that he will continue to consult on the possibility of renewables? I have concerns about investment in nuclear. restoring Dungeness to the list, and will he confirm that Natural England will not have a veto on that possibility? Edward Miliband: I know that my hon. Friend feels Edward Miliband: I know from our conversations strongly about these issues. Local environmental impacts that the right hon. and learned Gentleman feels strongly are built into the assessments. Whether on renewables about these questions. I can confirm that this is a or on nuclear, those decisions are for the IPC. It is consultation. No, Natural England does not have a important to say that the advance of the planning veto. We act on its advice and the advice of others. The reforms is so that the question of need is settled in specific issue with respect to the proposal for Dungeness consultation at this stage in the national policy statements. was that the site was adjacent to the existing power The question of specific applications and their impact station, which causes a lot more difficulties in relation on biodiversity and other matters is then a decision for to habitats than the existing power station. It is a the IPC, so I can reassure my hon. Friend that the IPC question not simply of new habitats rules coming into will have to make judgments on those questions. place since the original station at Dungeness was built, but of the specific siting of any new station at Dungeness. Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): May I As I say, there is a consultation and we look forward to welcome the Secretary of State’s well justified refusal to hearing the views of the right hon. and learned Gentleman put Druridge Bay in Northumberland back on the list and others. of potential nuclear sites, and, as someone who has campaigned for 20 years ago to get it off that list, assure Mr. John Hutton (Barrow and Furness) (Lab): I him that any future Secretary of State who sought to warmly congratulate my right hon. Friend on his statement put a nuclear station on such a magnificent and and the plans that he announced for accelerating our environmentally diverse site will face a similarly intense plans for new nuclear power stations, which will be and successful campaign? warmly welcomed in the country as a whole. His statement updates us on the planning reform changes that the Edward Miliband: Again, I know from speaking to Government have introduced, which will de-risk a lot of the right hon. Gentleman that he feels strongly about the investment that is necessary. Does he have an open these matters. We made a judgment about Druridge Bay mind about whether it might be necessary to go one and, indeed, the other two sites identified as worthy of step further at some point in the future, either in the further consideration—both that there were serious form of a minimum floor price for carbon or in the impediments to their being placed on the list, and that form of a new low-carbon obligation on the power they were not necessary for our plans for new nuclear. generators? Hence, they have been excluded from the national policy statements. I hope that that acts as reassurance to the Edward Miliband: Let me pay tribute to my right hon. right hon. Gentleman and his constituents. Friend because he took the very brave decision on nuclear power, which has not quite a universal consensus, Mr. Michael Meacher (Oldham, West and Royton) although perhaps a growing consensus, in this House. (Lab): As French, Finnish and UK regulators have all As for the carbon price, we do want a more robust recently agreed that the current control systems for the carbon price than we have at present. The best way of evolutionary EPR reactor are to be subject to architectural achieving that, in my view, is plan A, which is Copenhagen, change—in other words, the reactor is still being designed— 39 Energy National Policy Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Energy National Policy Statements 40

[Mr. Michael Meacher] dropped to two. I hope that that, together with the delay in construction at Kingsnorth, does not mean that the how can the Government possibly sanction the justification 2014 deadline will be put back. of nuclear plant before reactor design is finally decided? Is that not a classic case of putting the cart before Edward Miliband: The hon. Gentleman has an the horse? understandable interest in a particular competitor in the competition, and he will understand that we have to Edward Miliband: No, it is not. I said earlier that we go through a due process before making decisions. I were benefiting from the fact that other countries are said that early in the new year we will announce the next constructing and using power plants—in the case of stage, including the allocation of £90 million, so he will both Westinghouse and AREVA—before they are have to wait until then. To be clear about the matter, constructed here. That and the generic design assessment however, let me say that we are absolutely not downgrading represent precisely the advantage that we in this country our ambitions on CCS; indeed, we are upgrading them. have of being able to get the design right, so that we can I have said today that we will have up to four demonstration stick to the timetable and avoid the cost overruns that projects: up to two of them will be post-combustion, would otherwise result. and two of them will be pre-combustion.

Mr. David Heathcoat-Amory (Wells) (Con): Instead (Croydon, North) (Lab): I very much of being a world beater regarding civil nuclear power, welcome the statement, but, given the inevitably long we are now a client state because of 10 years of drift time scales for the development of new nuclear and and neglect. Will the right hon. Gentleman atone for carbon capture and storage, and getting to where we that, at least in part, by working with the further need to be in relation to our renewables needs, is there education colleges of Somerset to make our county a not a danger that up to 2020 we could see a new dash centre of British nuclear engineering, particularly as for gas? Will that not inevitably increase import dependency, Somerset is likely to be the site of the first of the new at a time when the world will be thirsty for energy; and generation of nuclear power stations? will the Secretary of State comment on the national security implications of that scenario? Edward Miliband: I have to say that the right hon. Gentleman has a funny way of advancing his constituents’ Edward Miliband: The Wicks report makes very good interests, but I am not going to engage in the question reading; I am glad to have the chance to plug it, as my of atonement. I welcome the work that local organisations right hon. Friend rather modestly did not do so. We in Somerset and elsewhere are doing as part of the showed in the low carbon transition plan that if we nuclear renaissance and to push nuclear skills. As I said make the progress on renewables that we have set out—that in my statement, I think that there are big opportunities is an “if” because it relies on planning reform, public in this country in terms of new nuclear and employment consent, finance and grid connection, all of which we and skills. are acting on—then we will stabilise gas imports at 2010 levels. However, that requires a Government who support (Holborn and St. Pancras) (Lab): Will the drive to renewables, who do not have qualms about my right hon. Friend make sure that the reduction in it, and who do not start saying that onshore wind is not the time taken up by the planning process is not portrayed part of the energy mix. That is why, in my view, we have by the nuclear industry as guaranteeing that nuclear to drive ahead with renewables and nuclear. power stations will be completed shortly? The fact is that apart from at Sizewell B, the principal cause of Mrs. Jacqui Lait (Beckenham) (Con): I welcome the delay in getting electricity out of nuclear power stations introduction of the first national policy statements, but was the vast delay in construction. For instance, Dungeness may I press the Secretary of State on the timetable for B was actually a decade late before it started producing ending consultation, both in the wider world and within any electricity, and it has never produced the amount Parliament? How does that fit in with Sir Michael Pitt’s for which it was designed. timetable inviting the energy producers to come forward with their plans? Edward Miliband: My right hon. Friend speaks with great authority on this matter. Indeed, I believe that he Edward Miliband: It is worth saying that the IPC will was shadow energy spokesman when some of those be up and running and fully operational from next questions were being debated. I take his point, but I spring. Pre-designation of the NPSs, it will be making have to say this about the specific planning process at recommendations to Ministers, and post-designation it Sizewell: my understanding is that there were 300 and will be making the decisions itself. As the hon. Lady will something days of inquiry at Sizewell; that only 30 were see from the documentation, we have allowed extra time taken up with the specific issue of the Sizewell proposal; for consultation. We fought long and hard about this. and that the rest were taken up with the debate about We thought that it was the right thing to do, not least need. The virtue of our proposals is precisely that they because of the big interest in nuclear, for example. The try to make some progress on need, so that people’s 15-week consultation period takes us to about February, points about specific, local applications can be considered. and then the Select Committee has to deliberate. We want to move as far and as fast as we can by next spring. Willie Rennie (Dunfermline and West Fife) (LD): I noticed that the Energy Secretary did not answer the Mr. Ian Cawsey (Brigg and Goole) (Lab): I thank my question from the Conservative Front Bencher about right hon. Friend for his courtesy in letting me know the 2014 deadline for the carbon capture and storage that Owston Ferry in my constituency was to be mentioned pilot. I also noticed that the number of bidders has in his statement, and for his swift decision not to 41 Energy National Policy Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Energy National Policy Statements 42 include it as part of the list put forward by the independent Edward Miliband: It was not leaked to the press, and I consultants, who said that it was a site worthy of serious take our responsibilities in the House very seriously. It consideration. My constituents will very much welcome was right that Parliament was the first to hear about the the swift decision announced today. However, can he details of the statement. assure the House that his Department has not spent a large amount of money on those independent consultants, Dr. Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): I am who came up with recommendations that he, I and sure that my right hon. Friend will agree that the everyone else can see are just plain daft? investment in and strengthening of the grid and the emergence of new connection points is an essential part Edward Miliband: I am sure that my hon. Friend’s of delivering a renewable energy strategy, and of renewing constituents and the independent consultants will have other forms of energy in future. What plans are there in heard his views on the report. In all seriousness, I can the documents he has published today to ensure that assure him that we see serious impediments regarding linear planning applications and associated applications all three sites, which is why they have not been included can receive the attention of the IPC, for example, in the in the national policy statement. We want to offer same way that it is intended larger, single-site applications reassurance to his constituents on that point. Also, as I will? said earlier, we do not need see the need for them as part of our nuclear plans. Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend is absolutely right Mr. Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater) (Con): May I about the importance of that matter as part of the say that Hinkley Point is delighted with the Minister’s IPC’s work. That is why networks are part of the IPC’s announcement? One of the integral aspects of this is consideration and remit. He is also right on his more the infrastructure needed to get to the plant: we need a general point about grid connection. new bridge and a new road. Can he confirm or deny that that will be part of the planning application? If it Steve Webb (Northavon) (LD): The proposed Oldbury B is, will it come under the new planning rules? power station, unlike the existing one next to it in my constituency, would have a very high cooling tower. If Edward Miliband: The hon. Gentleman gives me a my constituents objected to that because of the visual good opportunity to plug the benefits of the new system. impact and other factors, would they actually be listened He is right. At the moment, multiple consents have to to—not just heard—or would their views be overridden? be applied for from different organisations, but now a The document states that the national need for stations single set of applications will made to one body. That is is the most important factor. a necessary part of proceeding on the basis of the timetable we have set out. Edward Miliband: The distinction I have tried to draw is between the national need, which is important to Mr. (Coventry, North-West) (Lab): establish, and specific developments, on which it is I compliment my right hon. Friend on so clear-sighted important that the IPC can take a view. To reassure the and realistic a statement, but is he aware that the targets hon. Gentleman, the IPC will absolutely take a view on he sets for all three areas of energy supply are very whether that specific development is appropriate. ambitious, not least in respect of carbon capture and storage? I accept entirely what he says about the private sector, left to itself, not doing this on time, but could he Rob Marris (Wolverhampton, South-West) (Lab): set up a small team of capable officers in the Department Climate change is accelerating and sea levels are rising. to drive matters forward? Of the 10 potentially suitable sites for new nuclear power stations, how many are less than 20 metres above sea level? Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend speaks with great knowledge about these issues. We have set up the office of carbon capture and storage precisely to do what the Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend asks a Office for Nuclear Development has done in our characteristically important question. Let me put it to Department, which is to drive this forward on a proper him this way: flooding and coastal erosion issues are timetable. He is right that we need to make progress. taken account of, as he will see from the documents, in The next stage has been reached today with the bids for all specific site representations. The question for us is the competition, and the so-called feed studies—the whether to rule out any of those applications on the engineering demonstration projects—will be awarded grounds that he mentions, which we have not done. early next year. Although we raised the issue of flooding and coastal erosion in relation to Dungeness, we did not feel that it Several hon. Members rose— was enough to rule it out. It is a matter to consider, and he will see that we commented specifically on it in Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): Order. May I relation to a number of the applications that the IPC appeal to the House for very brief questions and brief will have to take a view on. answers, so that we get as many people in as we possibly can? Christopher Fraser (South-West Norfolk) (Con): In South-West Norfolk there is a growing number of wind Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Can the turbines, without any tangible local benefit. Will the Secretary of State say why the contents of his statement Secretary of State allow communities that host wind were leaked to the press over the weekend before it was farms to keep all the business rates, to ensure that there made to Parliament? is true local benefit from the local energy supplied? 43 Energy National Policy Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Energy National Policy Statements 44

Edward Miliband: We are always on the look-out for Edward Miliband: The hon. Gentleman asks an important ways to encourage local authorities to support wind question. The most important thing we can do at turbines. Copenhagen is to get an ambitious deal that enables Europe to go from a 20 per cent. reduction in its Christopher Fraser: Say yes. emissions by 2020 to 30 per cent. If we do that, it will most likely lead to a more robust carbon price. That is Edward Miliband: I am not going to make up policy the most effective thing we can do. on the hoof, tempting as it is. The hon. Gentleman’s general point about local people having an interest in Mr. Parmjit Dhanda (Gloucester) (Lab): Will my wind turbines and in having them in their area is absolutely right hon. Friend join me in congratulating employees right. at British Energy in my constituency? More than 1,000 will benefit from this announcement. Will he also join Paddy Tipping (Sherwood) (Lab): Should the me in congratulating E.ON and RWE, which want to Copenhagen summit not produce a robust price of create more than 200 jobs in the nuclear industry at carbon—the Secretary of State’s plan A—will he look Gloucester business park? Will he resist any attempt closely at other, domestic measures that will secure the from the Opposition to do away with the IPC, because price of carbon and secure new investment in new ultimately, that will result in greater instability in the technology in this country? nuclear jobs market?

Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend tempts me towards Edward Miliband: I agree with my hon. Friend. He is plan B, and I shall try to resist the temptation. We need right to say that nuclear can create big job opportunities to focus on plan A, which is getting a more robust price in this country and that we should capitalise on them. I for carbon. We have recommendations from the Select pay tribute to the employees in his constituency for the Committee on Energy and Climate Change, as he knows, work they are doing. I hope that, even at this late stage, and we will obviously consider them as part of the 2020 the Opposition will, having pondered the issues, think to 2050 road map that we will produce in the spring. again about abolishing the IPC, which I think is the wrong thing to do. Mr. Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): What has been the involvement and input of the devolved Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): The Secretary nations in drawing up the national policy statements? of State claimed that his statement was consistent with They are likely to be required to provide a disproportionate the Committee on Climate Change’s projections, but amount of the UK energy need. actually, it said last month that unabated coal should not form any part of our energy generation plans after Edward Miliband: As the hon. Gentleman will know, 2020, whereas the statement only compels clean carbon many of these matters are devolved, including specific capture and storage on 400 MW for each power station, planning issues. I wish that we had more of a consensus and only expects the rest to be retro-fitted later. Does in some parts of our nations and regions, for example that not leave exactly the same dirty great loophole in on nuclear power, but he will be pleased to hear that we his policy as existed before? have been in contact with the devolved nations to consult them on the specific proposals. Edward Miliband: I disagree with the hon. Gentleman. The Committee on Climate Change is very clear that Mr. Paul Truswell (Pudsey) (Lab): Can my right hon. there is a limited role for unabated coal in the 2020s, Friend give an assurance that the NPSs before us today and we agree. have been fully assessed for their carbon impact, so that they transmit a clear message to the IPC about the need to meet national climate change targets and priorities? Mr. Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op): I welcome my right hon. Friend’s commitment to 16 GW of new Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend makes a very nuclear energy. He knows, as I do, that nuclear is now important point. In drawing up the national policy clean, green and safe. May I also welcome the thousands statements, we are very clear about the need to decarbonise of jobs that will be brought into the industry, including our power supply and take the carbon out of our high-tech jobs, and in particular the hundreds of jobs energy. That is why I emphasised in my statement the that will be created at the nuclear fuels plant at Springfields importance of the new generating capacity we need by near my constituency? 2025. The truth is that we could carry on producing more gas-fired power stations—that is a high-carbon Edward Miliband: In a sense, we see from the lock-in way of proceeding. The real challenge for us is, contributions of hon. Members the jobs impact that in my view, not above all a security of supply challenge, new nuclear can have in this country, as well as on because we are making progress in building new energy security and our climate change targets. My hon. infrastructure, but low-carbon security of supply—meaning Friend spoke very eloquently about what it will do in his nuclear, renewables and other low-carbon sources constituency. of fuel. Ms Sally Keeble (Northampton, North) (Lab): Does Bob Spink (Castle Point) (Ind): What specifically will my right hon. Friend agree that a lot of people want to the Government do, however, at Copenhagen on emissions know not only that the lights will stay on, but that they trading to ensure that carbon pricing is fixed at a can also afford the bills? What assurances can he provide sufficiently high level to ensure that the base supplies of to people that the energy mix he set out will provide clean coal and nuclear are made viable? secure and affordable energy supply? 45 Energy National Policy Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Energy National Policy Statements 46

Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend raises a very important increase in nuclear power we are talking about. My hon. issue. That is why, in the energy Bill, which was in the Friend the Under-Secretary is working on this with the draft legislative programme, we want to propose social Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. tariffs on a mandatory basis—precisely to help the hardest-pressed consumers. At a time of rising prices Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): Much as I and when pressures on prices are upwards, we need have concerns about the IPC process, I welcome what tough regulation, and help for the most vulnerable. my right hon. Friend has said about nuclear. Following on from what my hon. Friend the Member for South Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab): Will my right Thanet (Dr. Ladyman) said, will my right hon. Friend hon. Friend guarantee that the nuclear industry will not put into the final national policy statement a clear be given an insurance indemnity subsidy from the taxpayers? requirement for an investment in British jobs if we are to have new nuclear power stations? Edward Miliband: We have made clear that on the question of public subsidy for nuclear—it was clear in Edward Miliband: It is tempting on these occasions to the White Paper produced by my right hon. Friend the load the IPC with a huge number of responsibilities. Member for Barrow and Furness (Mr. Hutton)—we are Part of what I have tried to set out is a balance of not going to provide public subsidy for the construction, powers, so that it is the role of Government to set out operation and decommissioning of nuclear power stations. need, get the skills strategy right and obtain the investment. The job of the IPC is to make a specific judgment about specific developments. That said, I am sympathetic to John Robertson (Glasgow, North-West) (Lab): My the point my hon. Friend makes about ensuring that we right hon. Friend will be aware that during the two-week get the jobs in this country. cold spell in Scotland last year, renewables contributed only 0.01 per cent. of Scottish needs. What guarantee can he give me that the base load that keeps this country BILL PRESENTED running will be maintained when the wind does not blow? INSTALLATION OF LETTER BOX GUARDS (PROTECTION FROM DOGS)BILL Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend is a passionate Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) advocate for the new nuclear industry and the role that it can play in this country, and he is right. I have tried to Ann Coffey, supported by Ms Karen Buck and Janet set out in my statement the combination of low-carbon Anderson, presented a Bill to require householders to fuels that we need, with nuclear providing the base load, fit a letter box guard if they are in possession of a dog; renewables as a plentiful source of supply, but intermittent, and for connected purposes. and flexible peak load response. Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 161). Mr. Tom Watson (West Bromwich, East) (Lab): My right hon. Friend has made a big call today and I commend him. On his proposals for the management of CORONERS AND JUSTICE BILL radioactive waste, can he comment on proposals for the (PROGRAMME) (NO.4) deep waste repository, and what date does he think that Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing it might be constructed, as it is important to building a Order No. 83A), public consensus around nuclear rebuild? That the following provisions shall apply to the Coroners and Justice Bill for the purpose of supplementing the Orders of Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend asks an important 26 January and 4 and 23 March 2009 (Coroners and Justice Bill question, and there is more information in the (Programme), Coroners and Justice Bill (Programme) (No. 2) and documentation we have provided. The truth is that deep Coroners and Justice Bill (Programme) (No. 3)): geological storage is a long way off, because—as I said Consideration of Lords Amendments to the hon. Member for North Southwark and Bermondsey 1. Proceedings on consideration on Lords Amendments shall (Simon Hughes)—waste will stay on the site for many (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at years to come after decommissioning and will then go the moment of interruption at this day’s sitting. into deep geological storage. It is also worth saying that 2. The proceedings shall be taken in the order shown in the first several councils in west Cumbria have expressed an column of the following Table. interest in being the site for the deep geological storage. 3. The proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at specified in the second column of the Table. Dr. Stephen Ladyman (South Thanet) (Lab): With the single caveat that my right hon. Friend should revisit TABLE the decision about Dungeness, I warmly welcome his Time for conclusion of statement today. Can he assure me that he will talk to Lords Amendments proceedings those colleagues responsible for higher education to Nos. 1, 2 and 216 One and a half hours after the ensure that we create the training places to produce commencement of British graduates in physics and engineering to man this proceedings on consideration industry in the future? of Lords Amendments. No. 55 Three hours after the Edward Miliband: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. commencement of those We need to ensure, both for reasons of national prosperity proceedings or the moment of interruption, whichever is and, frankly, energy security and climate change, that earlier. we have a supply chain that can accommodate the 47 Energy National Policy Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Energy National Policy Statements 48

TABLE Follett, Barbara Lucas, Ian Time for conclusion of Foster, Mr. Michael Mackinlay, Andrew Lords Amendments proceedings (Worcester) MacShane, rh Mr. Denis Foster, Michael Jabez Mactaggart, Fiona No. 59, 119, 121, 236 and 239 Five hours after the (Hastings and Rye) Mahmood, Mr. Khalid commencement of those Francis, Dr. Hywel Malik, Mr. Shahid proceedings or the moment of Gapes, Mike Mallaber, Judy interruption, whichever is Gardiner, Barry Mann, John earlier. George, rh Mr. Bruce Marris, Rob Nos. 66, 3 to 54, 56 to 58, 60 The moment of interruption. Gerrard, Mr. Neil Marsden, Mr. Gordon to 65, 67 to 118, 120, 122 to Gilroy, Linda McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas 215, 217 to 235, 237, 238, 240 Goggins, rh Paul McCabe, Steve to 244 Goodman, Helen McCafferty, Chris Griffith, Nia McCarthy, Kerry Subsequent stages Griffiths, Nigel McCarthy-Fry, Sarah 4. Any further Message from the Lords may be considered Grogan, Mr. John McDonnell, John forthwith without any Question being put. Gwynne, Andrew McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne 5. The proceedings on any further Message from the Lords Hain, rh Mr. Peter McKechin, Ann shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion Hall, Mr. Mike McNulty, rh Mr. Tony one hour after their commencement.—(Mr. Heppell.) Hall, Patrick Meacher, rh Mr. Michael The House divided: Ayes 282, Noes 213. Hamilton, Mr. David Merron, Gillian Hanson, rh Mr. David Michael, rh Alun Division No. 240] [4.49 pm Harman, rh Ms Harriet Miliband, rh Edward Havard, Mr. Dai Miller, Andrew AYES Healey, rh John Mitchell, Mr. Austin Abbott, Ms Diane Chapman, Ben Henderson, Mr. Doug Moffatt, Laura Ainger, Nick Chaytor, Mr. David Hendrick, Mr. Mark Mole, Chris Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Clapham, Mr. Michael Hepburn, Mr. Stephen Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Clark, Ms Katy Heyes, David Morden, Jessica Allen, Mr. Graham Clark, Paul Hill, rh Keith Morgan, Julie Anderson, Mr. David Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Hillier, Meg Morley, rh Mr. Elliot Anderson, Janet Clarke,rhMr.Tom Hodge, rh Margaret Mudie, Mr. George Armstrong, rh Hilary Clelland, Mr. David Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon Mullin, Mr. Chris Atkins, Charlotte Clwyd, rh Ann Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Munn, Meg Austin, Mr. Ian Coaker, Mr. Vernon Hope, Phil Murphy, Mr. Denis Austin, John Coffey, Ann Hopkins, Kelvin Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Baird, Vera Cooper, Rosie Howarth, rh Mr. George Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Balls, rh Ed Cooper, rh Yvette Howells, rh Dr. Kim Naysmith, Dr. Doug Banks, Gordon Corbyn, Jeremy Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay Norris, Dan Barlow, Ms Celia Cousins, Jim Humble, Mrs. Joan O’Hara, Mr. Edward Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Crausby, Mr. David Hutton, rh Mr. John Olner, Mr. Bill Battle, rh John Creagh, Mary Iddon, Dr. Brian Osborne, Sandra Bayley, Hugh Cruddas, Jon Illsley, Mr. Eric Palmer, Dr. Nick Beckett, rh Margaret Cryer, Mrs. Ann Irranca-Davies, Huw Pearson, Ian Begg, Miss Anne Cummings, John Jackson, Glenda Plaskitt, Mr. James Bell, Sir Stuart Cunningham, Mr. Jim James, Mrs. Siân C. Pope, Mr. Greg Pound, Stephen Benn, rh Hilary Cunningham, Tony Jenkins, Mr. Brian Prentice, Bridget Benton, Mr. Joe Curtis-Thomas, Mrs. Claire Johnson, Ms Diana R. Prentice, Mr. Gordon Berry, Roger David, Mr. Wayne Jones, Helen Prescott, rh Mr. John Betts, Mr. Clive Davies, Mr. Quentin Jones, Mr. Kevan Blackman, Liz Dean, Mrs. Janet Primarolo, rh Dawn Jowell, rh Tessa Prosser, Gwyn Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta Denham, rh Mr. John Joyce, Mr. Eric Borrow, Mr. David S. Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Purchase, Mr. Ken Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Dismore, Mr. Andrew Purnell, rh James Keeble, Ms Sally Brennan, Kevin Dobbin, Jim Rammell, Bill Keeley, Barbara Brown, Lyn Dobson, rh Frank Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Keen, Alan Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. Reed, Mr. Andy Brown, Mr. Russell Doran, Mr. Frank Keen, Ann Robertson, John Bryant, Chris Drew, Mr. David Kelly, rh Ruth Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Buck, Ms Karen Eagle, Angela Kemp, Mr. Fraser Rooney, Mr. Terry Burden, Richard Eagle, Maria Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Roy, Lindsay Burgon, Colin Efford, Clive Kidney, Mr. David Ruane, Chris Burnham, rh Andy Ellman, Mrs. Louise Knight, rh Jim Ruddock, Joan Butler, Ms Dawn Engel, Natascha Kumar, Dr. Ashok Russell, Christine Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Ennis, Jeff Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Salter, Martin Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Etherington, Bill Laxton, Mr. Bob Seabeck, Alison Cairns, David Field, rh Mr. Frank Lepper, David Sharma, Mr. Virendra Campbell, Mr. Alan Fisher, Mark Levitt, Tom Shaw, Jonathan Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Fitzpatrick, Jim Lewis, Mr. Ivan Sheerman, Mr. Barry Caton, Mr. Martin Flello, Mr. Robert Linton, Martin Sheridan, Jim Cawsey, Mr. Ian Flint, rh Caroline Lloyd, Tony Simon, Mr. Siôn Challen, Colin Flynn, Paul Love, Mr. Andrew Singh, Mr. Marsha 49 Energy National Policy Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Energy National Policy Statements 50

Skinner, Mr. Dennis Truswell, Mr. Paul Harvey, Nick Redwood, rh Mr. John Slaughter, Mr. Andy Turner, Dr. Desmond Heald, Mr. Oliver Reid, Mr. Alan Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Turner, Mr. Neil Heath, Mr. David Rennie, Willie Smith, Ms Angela C. Twigg, Derek Heathcoat-Amory, rh Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm (Sheffield, Hillsborough) Ussher, Kitty Mr. David Robathan, Mr. Andrew Smith, Geraldine Vaz, rh Keith Hendry, Charles Robertson, Angus Smith, rh Jacqui Vis, Dr. Rudi Hoban, Mr. Mark Robertson, Hugh Snelgrove, Anne Walley, Joan Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas Robertson, Mr. Laurence Southworth, Helen Waltho, Lynda Hollobone, Mr. Philip Rogerson, Dan Spellar, rh Mr. John Ward, Claire Holloway, Mr. Adam Rowen, Paul Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Watson, Mr. Tom Holmes, Paul Ruffley, Mr. David Stewart, Ian Watts, Mr. Dave Horam, Mr. John Russell, Bob Stoate, Dr. Howard Whitehead, Dr. Alan Horwood, Martin Sanders, Mr. Adrian Straw, rh Mr. Jack Wicks, rh Malcolm Howard, rh Mr. Michael Scott, Mr. Lee Stringer, Graham Williams, rh Mr. Alan Howarth, David Selous, Andrew Stuart, Ms Gisela Williams, Mrs. Betty Howarth, Mr. Gerald Shapps, Grant Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Wills, rh Mr. Michael Howell, John Shepherd, Mr. Richard Tami, Mark Wilson, Phil Hughes, Simon Short, rh Clare Taylor, Ms Dari Winnick, Mr. David Huhne, Chris Simmonds, Mark Taylor, David Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Hunt, Mr. Jeremy Simpson, Mr. Keith Thomas, Mr. Gareth Woolas, Mr. Phil Hunter, Mark Smith, Chloe Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Wright, David Hurd, Mr. Nick Smith, Sir Robert Tipping, Paddy Wright, Dr. Tony Jack, rh Mr. Michael Spelman, Mrs. Caroline Todd, Mr. Mark Tellers for the Ayes: Jackson, Mr. Stewart Spicer, Sir Michael Touhig, rh Mr. Don Mr. Bob Blizzard and Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Spink, Bob Trickett, Jon Mr. John Heppell Kawczynski, Daniel Spring, Mr. Richard Keetch, Mr. Paul Stanley, rh Sir John Key, Robert Streeter, Mr. Gary NOES Laing, Mrs. Eleanor Stuart, Mr. Graham Afriyie, Adam Conway, Derek Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Stunell, Andrew Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Laws, Mr. David Swayne, Mr. Desmond Amess, Mr. David Crabb, Mr. Stephen Leech, Mr. John Swinson, Jo Curry, rh Mr. David Leigh, Mr. Edward Swire, Mr. Hugo Ancram, rh Mr. Michael Davies, David T.C. Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver Syms, Mr. Robert Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James (Monmouth) Lewis, Dr. Julian Taylor, Mr. Ian Atkinson, Mr. Peter Davies, Philip Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Taylor, Dr. Richard Baker, Norman Davis, rh , Mr. David Teather, Sarah Baron, Mr. John Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Lilley, rh Mr. Peter Thurso, John Beith, rh Sir Alan Duddridge, James Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn Turner, Mr. Andrew Loughton, Tim Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Bellingham, Mr. Henry Duncan, Alan Dunne, Mr. Philip Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew Vaizey, Mr. Edward Benyon, Mr. Richard Durkan, Mark Maclean, rh David Vara, Mr. Shailesh Blunt, Mr. Crispin Evans, Mr. Nigel Main, Anne Viggers, Sir Peter Bone, Mr. Peter Evennett, Mr. David Malins, Mr. Humfrey Villiers, Mrs. Theresa Boswell, Mr. Tim Fabricant, Michael Maples, Mr. John Walker, Mr. Charles Bottomley, Peter Fallon, Mr. Michael Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert Walter, Mr. Robert Brake, Tom Farron, Tim Mason, John Waterson, Mr. Nigel May, rh Mrs. Theresa Watkinson, Angela Brazier, Mr. Julian Featherstone, Lynne Field, Mr. Mark McIntosh, Miss Anne Webb, Steve Breed, Mr. Colin Foster, Mr. Don McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Whittingdale, Mr. John Brokenshire, James Fox, Dr. Liam Mercer, Patrick Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann Brooke, Annette Francois, Mr. Mark Miller, Mrs. Maria Wiggin, Bill Browne, Mr. Jeremy Fraser, Christopher Milton, Anne Willetts, Mr. David Browning, Angela Gauke, Mr. David Mitchell, Mr. Andrew Williams, Hywel Bruce, rh Malcolm George, Andrew Moss, Mr. Malcolm Williams, Mark Gibb, Mr. Nick Mulholland, Greg Williams, Mr. Roger Burns, Mr. Simon Gidley, Sandra Neill, Robert Williams, Stephen Burrowes, Mr. David Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl Newmark, Mr. Brooks Willis, Mr. Phil Burt, Alistair Goldsworthy, Julia Osborne, Mr. George Willott, Jenny Butterfill, Sir John Goodman, Mr. Paul Ottaway, Richard Wilson, Mr. Rob Cable, Dr. Vincent Gray, Mr. James Pelling, Mr. Andrew Winterton, Sir Nicholas Cameron, rh Mr. David Grayling, Chris Penning, Mike Wishart, Pete Penrose, John Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Green, Damian Wright, Jeremy Pickles, Mr. Eric Carmichael, Mr. Alistair Greening, Justine Yeo, Mr. Tim Greenway, Mr. John Price, Adam Carswell, Mr. Douglas Young, rh Sir George Grieve, Mr. Dominic Prisk, Mr. Mark Cash, Mr. , rh Mr. William Pritchard, Mark Tellers for the Noes: Chope, Mr. Christopher Pugh, Dr. John Lorely Burt and Hammond, Mr. Philip Randall, Mr. John John Hemming Clappison, Mr. James Hammond, Stephen Clark, Greg Hancock, Mr. Mike Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth Harper, Mr. Mark Question accordingly agreed to. Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey Harris, Dr. Evan 51 9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 52

Coroners and Justice Bill Mr. Graham Allen (Nottingham, North) (Lab): For those of us who are not distinguished lawyers and who Consideration of Lords amendments come to the debate as lay people, will the Secretary of State please tell us what arrangements exist so that Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): I draw the highly sensitive information can be discussed or divulged attention of the House to the fact that financial privilege in camera? Is there not already provision that would is involved in amendments 12, 14, 28, 54, 66, 131, 145, cover most of the cases that he refers to? 149, 150 and 185. If the House agrees to any of these amendments, I shall ensure that the appropriate entry is Mr. Straw: In a sense, my hon. Friend makes my made in the Journal. point. There is potential for any tribunal—with a small “t”—to go into camera. In many cases, that provides After Clause 5 the answer. For sure, there are long-established rules so that in cases where human intelligence is involved evidence can be given by the staff of the security and intelligence 5.3 pm agencies from behind screens—or otherwise their identities The Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor can be withheld. In most cases, that is satisfactory. There (Mr. Jack Straw): I beg to move, That this House is, however, a tiny number of cases—there is one we disagrees with Lords amendment 1. know of at the moment; only one—for which the central evidence arises from intercept. There is a grave anxiety—this Mr. Deputy Speaker: With this it will be convenient is a central issue in the whole question of the disclosure to discuss the following: Lords amendment 2, and of intercept—that if that evidence were made available Government motion to disagree. as intercept transcriptions in closed court, it would have to be made available to those present, including many Lords amendment 216, and Government motion to who had not been cleared for these purposes. disagree, and Government amendments (a) and (b) in lieu. This issue was examined in great detail by the Chilcot inquiry. As I will explain, it came forward with nine Lords amendments 112 and 127. conditions in which intercept material in our environment Lords amendment 128, and Government amendment (a) —not in other people’s environments—could be made in lieu. available to the court. I am glad to see in their places Lords amendment 129, and Government amendment (a) today the right hon. and learned Member for Folkestone in lieu. and Hythe (Mr. Howard) and the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith), both of whom Mr. Straw: This group of amendments concerns an sat on the Chilcot inquiry and the subsequent advisory extremely important issue. It relates to the question of panel, so they know a huge amount about this issue. whether an investigation into the cause of death can take place within the coroners system, and in compliance Mr. Robert Marshall-Andrews (Medway) (Lab): This with article 2 of the European convention on human assessment must have been made so will the Secretary rights, in circumstances involving highly sensitive of State please tell us how many inquests—shall we say information, such as intercept material, which cannot in the last five years—he estimates would have been be made public. It is only in a very small number of affected by this Executive intervention? inquests—fewer than 2 per cent. of all inquests—that the coroner has to sit with a jury. Those are often the Mr. Straw: As far as I know—if I am wrong, I will try most controversial cases, where someone has died potentially to correct the record before the debate is concluded—there at the hands of the state. Of that 2 per cent., there are is one outstanding case, the Azelle Rodney case, which only a tiny number where article 2 is engaged and there goes back four years. We are dealing with a tiny number is sensitive material that should not be publicly disclosed. of cases, but the problem is that unless we find a way I should say right at the beginning that every effort is through this problem, there will be no satisfactory made by this Government—and will be by any Government investigation into the cause of death in an equivalent case and by law enforcement agencies—to push for the standard —I make no prejudicial remarks about that particular case. coronial system with a jury in this kind of case to ensure The original proposals for so-called secret inquests that, if humanly possible, it is a normal coroner’s inquest came from my right hon. Friend the Member for Airdrie with a jury that holds the investigation. There was some and Shotts (John Reid), when he was Home Secretary. suggestion with the de Menezes case that it would not They did not find favour and were withdrawn, as it was be possible, because of the sensitive material, to hold the Secretary of State deciding on whether an inquest such an inquest, but in the event it was, as ways round should be held without a coroner. It was thought the problems were found. That was to the general inappropriate—I understand the arguments and agree approbation of everybody—not least and above all to with them—for the decision in such a sensitive matter the families and the community concerned. There is no to be made by a Home Secretary alone. After much intention whatever—by the agencies, by the police, by consideration and discussion, I proposed a different the Government, by the Law Officers—that any provisions scheme that found its way into clause 12 of the Bill as it in this Bill should ever be used as an alternative to a left the House: a Home Secretary would form a view normal inquest where such a normal inquest can, by that a non-jury inquest was required, and the Lord stretching the envelope as far as possible, be used. Chief Justice would nominate a senior judge to hear it, Where intercepted evidence is available, every effort is but a prior hearing by that judge would determine, on made to gist that material and if the coroner is satisfied application by the Secretary of State and on hearing the that the gist provides a fair summary of the evidence, other parties, whether to accede to that application on that is regarded as satisfactory. clear criteria. 53 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 54

David Howarth (Cambridge) (LD): Will the Secretary 5.15 pm of State also confirm that clause 13, as originally drafted, When clause 12 failed to find favour, I announced, allowed the use of intercept evidence? along with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, that as an alternative he would use the provisions in the Mr. Straw: Section 18 of the Regulation of Investigatory Inquiries Act 2005 to establish an inquiry. That had Powers Act 2000 also allows the use of intercept evidence been suggested to us informally as an alternative. Provisions in certain cases, but the difference is that in neither introduced in the other place make it clear that the scheme was intercept evidence to be made available to a matters before any such inquiry must be those matters wide variety of parties in the courts, or to a jury. We are which would have been before any inquest, as an irreducible not digging in—we never have—and saying that in no minimum. There is also provision, in schedule 1, for the circumstances should intercept evidence be available to inquest itself to be formally adjourned while an inquiry a court, prior to the Chilcot recommendations being takes place, and general provision for it to be resumed. implemented. I was the Home Secretary who introduced, In some cases it may be decided that there is no need for in 1999-2000, the Regulation of Investigatory Powers it, while in other cases it will be resumed. Act. The central issue is how to ensure that such sensitive material, and all the techniques behind it, are protected. Mr. Elfyn Llwyd (Meirionnydd Nant Conwy) (PC): Everybody who has been in the position—as have I, In earlier debates, I put to the Secretary of State the the right hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and possibility of introducing public interest immunity Hythe, and the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed certificates into the whole scenario, thereby excluding as a member of the Chilcot committee and the Intelligence the detail of intercept evidence. To this day I am not and Security Committee—of operating or supervising sure what the explanation is, whether it holds good, and the system is alive to the dangers and invites others to whether it could apply. Will the Secretary of State take on trust the nature of the dangers. I hope that please address that point? colleagues will accept, from a wide variety of sources, and from right hon. Members who do not necessarily Mr. Straw: Public interest immunity certificates are agree on everything, that a serious issue needs to be used to withhold from a jury information that would addressed. If I felt otherwise, I would say so, as would otherwise be disclosable, but not in a case in which it the other right hon. Gentlemen involved. could lead to an injustice. The right hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and Hythe signed plenty of Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): There is PIIs, and I signed plenty of them both as Home Secretary another complication to the problem, which is not just and as Foreign Secretary. The difficulty in this instance awareness of the dangers, but certainty that a particular is that if we leave it to a jury to consider the matter—as step will not necessarily lead to others that expose the even those who support the idea, such as Lady Miller dangers. Although it might prove entirely reasonable to and certain interest groups outside, will accept—the use intercept in particular circumstances, the rules to finder of fact, the jury in this case, will be expected to make that possible do not have to create a situation in find the facts when some of the key facts are being which intercept is used in circumstances in which that withheld. Surely that is far less just than allowing a would be dangerous to national security. senior judge of High Court status or above to examine the issue. Mr. Straw: I accept that, and in our debates about intercept some people have taken the view that we Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon) (Lab): Schedule 1(3)(2) should just make it available. The Chilcot committee to the Inquiries Act states: looked in some detail at the systems in other countries, but our system is much more adversarial, and the rules “The coroner need not suspend the investigation if there relating to the disclosure of unused material, and the appears to be an exceptional reason for not doing so.” police techniques behind it, are much tougher in most Will my right hon. Friend confirm that an exceptional cases than those in other jurisdictions. That is fundamental reason might be that the inquiry did not comply with to the problem that Chilcot was trying to deal with. article 2 of the European convention on human rights? We have to find some way of achieving a solution If a coroner took the view that it did not, would he be when there has been a death at the hands of the state within his rights if he refused to suspend the investigation, and article 2 is involved, as are the requirements that, in and would my right hon. Friend support him in that every other circumstance, a jury inquest would take decision? place. There can be a satisfactory finding of fact about the cause of death. There is a fundamental difference Mr. Straw: With great respect to my hon. Friend, I between such an investigation into a death, and any think that the idea of inquiries is that they should investigation leading to a criminal trial. In extremis—this comply with article 2. There would be scarcely any has happened—the prosecution have the discretion to reason for proceeding if they did not. I shall say more withdraw a prosecution, as they can balance the public about this when I sum up the debate, but if that were the interest if they think that they are being required to case, the matter would fall to be resolved in the normal disclose material that would damage national security. way, and it might well be for the court to decide whether In the context of an inquest or an investigation of a the inquiry was compliant with article 2. death under article 2, that is not an option, because it is the death that triggers investigation in the circumstances. Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Con): As I shall There is no discretion. The investigation must be held. make clear in a moment, I am conscious that the The only issue before the House—and it is an important Secretary of State has a real problem, and that it is for one—is what the environment of that investigation us in the House to try to help rather than hinder him. should be. Will he confirm, however, that there may already be all 55 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 56

[Mr. Dominic Grieve] implementation of Chilcot, and achieving this end is very difficult. Secondly, I say, with respect to Baroness sorts of trials—inquests and, indeed, criminal trials— Miller, that I do not believe that she had read Chilcot’s that might be helped by the admissibility of intercept nine conditions. The second of them, for example, says: evidence? “Intercepted material originating from the intelligence agencies Let us be clear about this. The category of case to shall not be disclosed beyond cleared judges, prosecutors, or which the Secretary of State is referring is not a category special (defence) advocates, except in a form agreed by the originator.” of case in which intercept evidence might be available There are various other restrictions on disclosure, that would help but, I assume, a category of case in too, so we are back in the same box. In a criminal trial, which intercept evidence goes to the very heart of the even where there are PIIs, it is fundamental that the trial decision of an inquest or inquiry. That already narrows judge ensures that there is a fair trial in every circumstance, it down considerably. and if he thinks there will not be a fair trial, including in respect of taking account of material he has seen under Mr. Straw: Yes, it does. Typically, the intelligence the PII, he can abort the trial. I say again that that is not agencies or the police have available to them intercept a possibility in an inquest, which is an investigation into evidence which is highly incriminatory. That is, indeed, a death that has taken place. the argument in its favour, and the reason for its use in cases abroad. It has been judged to be in the wider David Howarth: Is the Secretary of State saying the public interest not to make it available up to now. following? On the one side, there is some risk—although Chilcot has come forward with his nine conditions, but presumably a very remote one—that a coronial judge on the whole we manage to find other means of ensuring might reveal information to the parties the revelation of that evidence is found. which would be damaging to a party, or that a jury that contains people who are not secure might receive certain I should just point out to the House—this is not information. On the other side, there is a risk that remotely a theological issue—that it has long been sometimes information will not be disclosed to the jury accepted that evidence obtained through recordings, which it would need to make a perfect decision on the such as hidden microphones, is adducible in court, and facts. Surely the problem is that that is making the best that is often used. The point here is that the compromise the enemy of the good. There is no perfect solution to of techniques is far less. The balance in respect of this, but surely a system that allows, in general, the public interest lies in favour of disclosure. We therefore disclosure of intercept evidence will, in general, produce put forward these proposals, and we sought to strengthen the best results. them in the interests of the parties not least by ensuring that a senior judge should be appointed to hold such Mr. Straw: The issue of whether and, if so, how inquiries. intercept evidence can be used in our trial system has A series of amendments were put forward in the exercised senior politicians and senior members of the other place, which I am inviting the House to reject judiciary for a long time. It is not for the want of trying today. They propose that this evidence should be made that we have yet, finally, to pin down a solution. That is available to a normal inquest court, save in certain very the purpose of Chilcot’s report and we have got closer limited circumstances where the court has a power to to a solution through it than we have ever got before. I withhold it from the inquest jury. The difficulty here is am extremely grateful to those who have been burning that under the amendments the coroner could disclose their brains out on how to ensure that we arrive at the the material to the interested parties even if that could correct solution. cause very considerable damage to other parties. I say However, we cannot suddenly say, in a rather blasé with respect that this is where I identify the central flaw way, that we are just going to adopt Chilcot’s approach in the argument of Baroness Miller and her supporters, for coroners’ inquests, without having a proper scheme such as Inquest, Liberty and Justice, with whom I have for every other circumstance. Precisely because of the talked and for whom I have great respect—and my fact that there is no discretion about whether or not to clause 12 is an attempt to square this circle. Those three proceed with an investigation into a death whereas there supporters have said that is that long-stop protection of discontinuing a prosecution “it will remain possible for a judge conducting an investigation to in a criminal trial, we have to ensure that the inquests ban or restrict the jury’s or public’s access to material that would system is more robust than any other—that is so by be contrary to the interests of national security.” definition, because it has to be used in every case where If that is so, we return to the central problem here: in there is a relevant case; there is no alternative but to these cases, where the evidence from the intercept is key hold an investigation. That is the point I make. I should to the cause of death—because if it were not, it would say, as I was about to say in a moment, that what I have be possible to offer other information—we are expecting done, and so my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary juries to come to a decision based on facts that have not has to have done, is ask the advisory panel on intercept been disclosed to them. Baroness Miller inadvertently evidence, which includes hon. Members here, whether made the same admission herself. On Report, she said they will particularly examine the issue of evidence in of the Chilcot inquiry conditions that coronial matters, because we need to find a specific way “it must be possible for the Government and all their advisers to forward. work out a way to put those nine conditions into the Bill in such a I wish to illustrate the point some more for the way…that they can stay within the inquest system and the conditions benefit of the House. Amendment 2, which I am proposing can be fulfilled.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 21 October to delete, includes a subsection that states: 2009; Vol. 713, c. 733.] “A coronial judge shall not order a disclosure…except where I have two things to say about that. First, some very the judge is satisfied that the circumstances of the case make the assiduous and imaginative individuals—including two disclosure necessary to enable the matters required to be ascertained in this House—are sitting on the advisory panel on the by the investigation to be ascertained.” 57 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 58

It does not say, “Save where they believe that national power is quite important. The Lord Chief Justice can security considerations apply.” That simply makes my speak for himself, but I suggest that he would wish to be point; if this material is necessary for the finders of satisfied about the conditions under which any inquiry fact—the jury—it will go to the finders of fact. The were to take place and about what the level of judicial amendment provides absolutely no protection for national discretion would be for such an inquiry before he made security, notwithstanding the fact that the outside pressure an appointment. groups have accepted that there should be, as has Baroness Miller, in this kind of throwaway line. Mr. Marshall-Andrews rose—

Mr. Grieve: I hope that I am not intervening at the Mr. Straw: I shall just finish my comments on Lords wrong moment, but the Secretary of State may have amendment 128, if I may. I shall then give way to my noticed from the amendments that have been tabled hon. and learned Friend and, afterwards, I shall finish that there appears to be an acceptance by those who my speech, as time is limited. have tabled amendments in lieu that the principle of the The hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield suggests problem that he identifies about the use of intercept that the judge should consent to the Lord Chancellor’s evidence may well be widely accepted across the House. request, and I understand exactly why. If it is about The question then arises: what safeguards can the agreeing to the appointment qua appointment, I can Government offer that the inquiry process will not be say that, with respect, that ought to be done by the Lord used in a way that would undermine the coronial process Chief Justice. Perhaps we should have put that in the and be seen to be unfair? On that, may I simply remind Bill. We have not, but I give an absolute undertaking on him that in Committee, Lord Kingsland—before he that understanding and anyway, in practice, the Lord died—provided a good steer as to the sort of protections Chief Justice has a veto, quite properly, over whether that ought to be in the inquiry process to ensure that it somebody is or is not appointed. Of course he does. He would command confidence? The Government have might just say, “I’m sorry, there isn’t anybody available,” not adopted all of those. The Secretary of State may or, “I’m sorry, I will not appoint anybody because this is comment about this in a moment, but I should say that not an appropriate article 2-compliant tribunal and the they might go to the heart of being able to resolve this learned judge will be compromised.” issue. At the moment, the problem we face is that the situation remains unsatisfactory and that confidence in As the hon. and learned Gentleman would expect, I the inquiry process as it appears in the Bill is not have looked carefully into whether I could accept his sufficient. amendment. At first blush, it appears rather similar to the scheme that was in clause 11 of blessed memory, on Mr. Straw: I have been up hill and down dale on this, page 7 of the Bill as it left the Commons, which spelled as I know others have. I thought that clause 12 was a out that the judge would have to make a decision, based way of resolving this, because it would have placed in on certain criteria, about whether the application from the hands of the senior judge the decision as to whether the Secretary of State was to be accepted. or not to proceed with a certain investigation, they To some extent, my objection is technical but I promise would then have run the investigation and it would have the hon. and learned Gentleman that it is serious. We been within the coronial system. That was parodied as a are at a late stage in the proceedings on the Bill, and secret inquest, and we have now gone down the route of although I had a lovely scheme in mind, there were no an inquiry under the Inquiries Act 2005. We have sought takers for it, so if the only proviso in the Bill is that the to ensure that only a senior judge can sit on this—other consent of the judge is required, he or she must work clear criteria are set down. out how to exercise that consent. He or she cannot just This matter has gone round and round for two years say, “Yes, I’m available. I’ll do it,” but will have to say, “I now and I am certainly ready to promise the House— will have to hold a hearing.” Members will have to take it on trust, but there is no Another matter to consider is which criteria should reason not to trust me—that the inquiry will be used be used. Clear criteria were set down in my proposals, only in exceptional circumstances. The facts speak for but now there is only the hon. and learned Gentleman’s themselves—there is only one extant case in which it is amendment to consider. He could simply have pulled likely to be used, and that is a very rare case. Secondly, I out the old clause 11(6) and plonked those criteria in. It will ensure that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary is a bit late to do so, although I am not trying to make a and I bring forward a protocol to set out the circumstances point about that. Just so the hon. and learned Gentleman in which such an inquiry would take place. They would knows, the alternative I considered was whether there be very limited, too. was any provision for the court to make rules, but we are not talking about a criminal case, so the criminal 5.30 pm rules committee cannot make such rules. There does not It might be useful to deal with amendment (a), tabled appear to be any appropriate rule-making power. by the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield I hope the hon. and learned Gentleman will accept (Mr. Grieve), to Lords amendment 128. It suggests that that the point about consent will be dealt with by the any appointment by the Lord Chancellor of a senior clear undertakings I have given in respect of the Lord judge should be made with that judge’s consent. First, Chief Justice, but that for practical reasons it is not there could and would be no appointment without the really appropriate to accept the amendment. consent of the Lord Chief Justice. It is important that I should say that, and it goes without saying that I have to Mr. Marshall-Andrews: Does my right hon. Friend ask the Lord Chief Justice from time to time to nominate not understand that it is a question of scale? In any jury a judge; if he or she were to decide that no judge were to system there are always problems with public interest be nominated that would be the end of the matter. That immunity—there always have been—and we get round 59 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 60

[Mr. Marshall-Andrews] that material should be kept back. She referred to the Chilcot criteria, although the withholding would be them by a mixture of evidential routes that has served rather more extensive than she anticipated. In any event, us extremely well. We now have a problem in one we cannot do it within the scope of the Bill. case—just one case in five years—and to rectify that The issue is whether we do or do not come up with a evidential problem the Government propose to hand a scheme that allows an article 2-compliant investigation massive new power to the Executive. The disproportionate to take place, where the finder of fact has access to all remedy in the circumstances is obvious to everybody. I the relevant facts. The alternative that has been put to know there is judicial oversight, but my right hon. the House is a jury inquest from which material would Friend will forgive me for saying that he adulates the be withheld, but, I suggest, on unsatisfactory grounds. higher judiciary only when they are being used as a That is not a way of reaching at the truth for the benefit mechanism to withdraw jury trial. Otherwise, he is of the parties—above all the aggrieved relatives. That is rather more critical of them and on occasion has described our overwhelming concern. them both as unelected and unregulated and in various In conclusion, I sense from the sombre atmosphere in other ways. To say that there is a higher judicial role is the House that everybody is addressing themselves to not an adequate response. Does my right hon. Friend the issue. Even at this late stage, I invite the House to not understand that that is what concerns most of us in acknowledge that the issues that I have tried to deal the House? with are extremely difficult. They will, I repeat, arise only in rare exceptions. It is in the interest of all of us Mr. Straw: My hon. and learned Friend is an infinitely that those exceptions are kept to a minimum, but more experienced criminal practitioner than ever I was—I occasionally they will arise. The scheme that we propose say that seriously, without condescension. However, is a way of achieving justice, not least for the aggrieved there is a very big difference. In a criminal case, the trial parties. judge can say, “I am not going to proceed, because it would be unjust”, or the prosecution can say, “We are about to have crucial evidence that is sensitive and Mr. Grieve: I shall be brief. I repeat what I said: I compromised. We will withdraw the prosecution”, and acknowledge that the Government have a problem. In sometimes does so, because there is no option. But with the other place, amendments were tabled by Baroness great respect, there will not be a massive new power in Miller. As the Secretary of State knows from my earlier the hands of the state; it would be used extremely remarks, and as is implicit in the amendments tabled in sparingly. lieu, there is an acknowledgement that to allow intercept evidence would be very difficult at this stage. I feel extremely frustrated, because my scheme was to give the decision to a senior High Court judge, but that My party is on the record on countless occasions as did not find favour. We tried plan A. That did not work. wishing to see intercept evidence available in criminal We tried plan B and that did not work, so now we have trials and at inquests. That is desirable and it is a shift plan C. To those who say they do not like the idea of that needs to take place. I regret that the movement on non-jury inquests, I say that I do not like the idea either, this is so slow. We subscribed to the Chilcot process so but I am trying to square an extraordinarily difficult that it could be reviewed, and the Chilcot process is not circle, and I have not yet found a way of doing so except yet complete. Therefore I acknowledge that to ride a by a route similar to the proposal. coach and horses through that would be unsatisfactory, even though it is an end that I would wish to see, Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): The Lord Chancellor properly arrived at. has told us that he is trying to square an extraordinarily The question then is how we solve the conundrum. difficult circle. He has indicated that he has a problem The Secretary of State is right that the Bill has been up and the Opposition spokesperson has indicated that he hill and down dale. He wanted to have a provision for acknowledges that the Lord Chancellor has a problem, secret inquests that could hear evidence secretly. He and we have heard about the problems of the intelligence received universal opprobrium for that, partly because services. Does the Lord Chancellor accept that it is it debased the entire coronial system. As he will recollect, important that the House focuses on the real people when the matter came to be discussed on Report, I who may have a problem, who could be a grieving, and suggested to him that it would be better if we called a potentially aggrieved, family in the future? It could be a spade a spade, and if we could not have an inquest in perturbed public, who are concerned and suspicious proper form, it would be better to look at the inquiry about the circumstances of a death. Is he not at least a route, which already existed, as an alternative. At least little bit uncomfortable that on a day when the Prime the Secretary of State or some other Minister would Minister is off in Berlin, celebrating the end of the have to explain to the House why an inquest was Berlin wall, and the end of control and secrecy and all it impossible, answer the hostile questioning of the House represented, the Government are trying to put such and enable Members to express a view, and then and measures through the House? only then, with probably a great deal of public debate surrounding the matter, would an inquiry go ahead. Mr. Straw: None of us is comfortable about departing It is also true, as I hope I made clear on Report, that in any case from jury inquests. I hope my hon. Friend when the matter went to the Lords in Committee, Lord will concede that none of us would be going down that Kingsland argued that if an inquiry route were to be route unless we felt that it was absolutely necessary, but pursued where normally an inquest would take place, as I said, Inquest, Justice and other groups accept that there were a great many flaws in the inquiry procedure. there is material that should be kept from an inquest He tried to rectify that. It was virtually the last speech jury. It may be absolutely central to the case, and the he ever made. The Government accepted some of what investigation still has to proceed. Baroness Miller accepts he suggested, including the need for a High Court 61 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 62 judge, and some other safeguards concerning the scope suspend our critical faculties. We are considering Lords of the inquiry. What the Government did not do was to amendments, and, if we do not wish the issue to be listen to Lord Kingsland’s calls that that had to be a dropped completely, the proper course of action will be judicial process, not an administrative process. to ensure that it stays in play, so that when the Bill goes The Secretary of State highlighted my amendment (a) back to the other place the Government can take on to amendment 128, and I am the first to accept that it is board what has been said here and, I dare say, what will probably desperately inadequate. The procedures that be said there and come up with a constructive solution we have in the House are now so barmy—there is no that respects its concerns as well as those of Members other way to describe them—that I had to draft the from all parts of this House. amendment even before the Bill had come back from Mr. Dismore: I shall speak to the amendments in lieu the Lords. All I could do, with the help of the Clerk in that are in my name and those of other Members who charge of the legislation, and with the anxiety that as an have signed them on a cross-party basis. I, like the hon. amendment in lieu, anything more would probably not and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve), be accepted, was to find some way of bringing back to accept that there is a problem with intercept evidence, the House the issue of judicial control. Imperfect though and it needs a comprehensive solution. In trying to table the amendment may be, its purpose was simply to give sensible amendments in lieu, I was handicapped by the the House the opportunity to say, “Perhaps if we have procedures of the House, which meant that the only to have an inquiry, there should be a judicial lock on it.” possibility was to propose the removal of paragraphs (3) Interestingly, that is exactly what the Secretary of State and (8) from schedule 1. hinted he was minded to grant in the original draft of On 30 April 2005, Azelle Rodney was in the rear seat clause 11(6). I am a little mystified about why he did not of a car in Hale lane, Edgware, in my constituency. A pursue the road that Lord Kingsland identified for him, police officer fired eight shots at the car, six of which hit because, if the Secretary of State had, we would not Rodney, killing him. There is no evidence that Rodney have ended up with the situation that we had in the was holding a gun when he was shot, although the other House of Lords on Report, when everything went in all occupants were successfully prosecuted, firearms having directions. I hope that I am not being unfair, but the been found in the vehicle. The suggestion was that it anxiety that their lordships clearly manifested finally was part of a drugs operation, not, I have to say, a expressed itself in allowing intercept evidence. national security issue, and that covert surveillance was used. 5.45 pm The Independent Police Complaints Commission report Mr. Straw: I did not intend any criticism of the hon. has not been published, but it recommended no action. and learned Gentleman’s drafting of his amendment in Four-and-a-half years on, there has been no inquest lieu. As he knows, I spent 18 years in opposition, 17 of and no explanation, and Azelle Rodney’s mother, Susan them as an Opposition spokesman for one thing or Alexander, wants, needs and has a right to know what another, and I used to have to draft such amendments. I happened to her son. So do constituents, because they hope, however, that I have given him a lot of comfort—albeit were made fearful by the incident having taken place in not in the Bill—about the practice, which will be inevitable, broad daylight at a busy junction. They, too, would like in circumstances where there is an appointment. Of to know what was going on. course I accept that the noble and much lamented Lord I was pleased when my right hon. Friend the Justice Kingsland was searching constructively for a solution, Secretary announced that the secret inquest proposals and we were trying to find one, but it is also fair to say in the Bill were to be dropped, but I am disappointed that some who have objected at each stage to what we that they have been replaced by secret inquiries. This have tried to do, not including the hon. and learned debate seems to be something of a “Groundhog Day” Gentleman at all, will object in any circumstances to in terms of the issues that we may have to cover. there not being an inquest jury in full possession of the Schedule 1(3), which my amendment would remove, facts. That is the central difficulty with which we are provides for the suspension of inquests trying to grapple. “on the ground that the cause of death is likely to be adequately investigated by an inquiry under the Inquiries Act 2005”. Mr. Grieve: I appreciate the Secretary of State’s However, there are no criteria or grounds for superseding comments, but I shall bring my remarks to a close. an inquest specified in the Bill. On that basis, the It seems to me that the amendment in lieu tabled by proposals before us are worse than those that were the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore), which the withdrawn for secret inquests. Secretary of State has not signed, but which would Article 2 of the European convention on human leave out paragraphs (3) and (8) from schedule 1, has rights provides a positive obligation to provide an adequate this great merit: it would ensure that the Bill went back and effective investigation when individuals are killed as to the other place, where the issues that I have just a result of the use of force, particularly where the death raised could be addressed. If we go along the route that is a result of the use of force by state agents. The person the Secretary of State has advocated, and we do not conducting the investigation must be independent of support the amendment, the Bill will effectively go on those implicated in the events, there has to be a sufficient to the statute book in its present form. That would be element of public scrutiny to secure accountability in unsatisfactory, so with that in mind I intend to support practice as well as in theory, and the investigation must the amendment in the name of that hon. Gentleman involve the next of kin to the extent necessary to protect and those who have signed it. their legitimate interests. We may be at a late stage, but just because we happen According to the schedule, the coroner may not suspend to be discussing it on the Monday before Parliament is the inquest if there is an exceptional reason for not due to prorogue on the Thursday, we should not suddenly doing so. In an intervention, I asked my right hon. 63 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 64

[Mr. Andrew Dismore] make a decision about it in the next week. I suggest that he is moving away from the central issue. Whenever I Friend whether, if the investigation was not going to be put it to him, “This is the heart of the issue—what article 2 compliant, that would justify the coroner’s would you do?”, he says that it would not arise very refusal and whether he would uphold the coroner in often. It does indeed not arise very often—it is very making that decision. I was given a rather ambivalent rare—but when it does, what would he do? answer. If the procedure was going to be article 2 compliant in the first place, one would not need to use Mr. Dismore: I think my right hon. Friend is putting the provision—it is only the implication that something a false prospectus before the House in this respect. My would be missing from the inquest that puts matters in main concern is to ensure that there is an article 2 the article 2 questionability arena. If the coroner considers compliant investigation. I have given indications of how that it is an exceptional circumstance, then presumably that can be achieved in these circumstances; it may well he should be able to refuse the request. I canvassed this be that there are other ways round it. The hon. and issue in correspondence on behalf of the Joint Committee learned Member for Beaconsfield has given my right on Human Rights with my right hon. and learned hon. Friend a way forward by saying that if the amendments Friend the Leader of the House, who was then Minister in lieu are accepted, the Bill could go back to the Lords of State at the Department for Constitutional Affairs. with some reassurances to try to deal with some of She replied on 22 January 2007: these problems. “the Government does consider that a reasonable belief that the This system has operated before, in Northern Ireland. inquiry proposed by the Lord Chancellor would not meet Article 2 British Irish Rights Watch has written to Members requirements because of its scope, would be an exceptional reason to say: which would justify a coroner’s refusal to suspend an investigation.” “We have monitored the use of the Inquiries Act in Northern Ireland and have found it lacking in its ability to deliver truth and Mr. Straw: I am listening to my hon. Friend with justice to the bereaved, build confidence in the rule of law and to care. Aside from the inadvertent impact that the comply with the UK’s human rights obligations.” amendments would have, although I understand the So this may not just be a one-off, because it has happened problems about drafting, how would he propose to before in Northern Ireland on several occasions, and it address the central question at issue, which is how one has been shown not to have worked in terms of providing would deal with highly sensitive intercept material where article 2 compliance and building confidence in the rule some of the facts of the intercept—the techniques of law. behind it, as the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon- Tweed (Sir Alan Beith) put it—should not, for very Mark Durkan: In relation to the experience of inquiries good reasons, be disclosed to the inquest jury? under the Inquiries Act 2005 in Northern Ireland, were not some of the most critical spokespersons in relation Mr. Dismore: We run the risk of rehearsing debates to how those inquiries worked Government Ministers that we had before on secret inquests. The starting point themselves? is that an inquest is not intended to prove something beyond all reasonable doubt. Public interest immunity Mr. Dismore: My hon. Friend knows far more about applies to inquests, subject to judicial review by either Northern Ireland than I do, and I would certainly pray side, and the Government can persuade the coroner to in aid his intervention in my argument. withhold sensitive material, as happened and was upheld in the Jordan and McCann cases, for example. My right Jenny Willott (Cardiff, Central) (LD): So far there hon. Friend has already mentioned gisting. Such restrictions has been only one case to which this relates—the one are compatible, in principle, with an article 2 compliant that the hon. Gentleman mentioned involving his inquiry. My concern is that what is being proposed is a constituent—and people have had to find their way secret inquiry at the behest of the Executive. through the system to be able to hold inquests in all the other cases. Does he share my concern that if there were Mr. Straw: I cannot allow my hon. Friend to gloss an opt-out, we might find that under these proposals a over this issue. There is no question of these proceedings larger number of cases were being held in secret? being secret. Most of it would be entirely public, although of course part would be secret. What he says is all true. Mr. Dismore: That is a real fear. My right hon. Friend However, what if we are in a situation, which appears to rightly said that the de Menezes case was dealt with be so in the case of Azelle Rodney, where these devices under the inquest procedure. That is because there was are not possible? They were, happily, possible in the case no other way of dealing with it. If these arrangements of Charles de Menezes, but what if they are not? What had been available, perhaps the de Menezes case might do we do then? not have seen the light of day in the same way— similarly with the Dyson case, which dealt with depleted Mr. Dismore: As I have indicated, there are other uranium victims from the first Gulf war, or the Mubarak options. We simply do not know enough about the case, where the Government resisted tooth and nail Rodney case to answer that question; that is part of the proper inquiries into the death of that young man in problem. Feltham young offenders institution.

Mr. Straw: I am sorry, but I must press my hon. Frank Dobson (Holborn and St. Pancras) (Lab): My Friend. He is coming to some clear conclusions about hon. Friend is a lawyer and understands these things one option, on the basis of the Rodney case, but the rather better than I do. Does he share the concern and moment I put to him the heart of the issue, he says that puzzlement of quite a few people that in the de Menezes we do not know enough about it, although we have to case, where some of the evidence was clearly related to 65 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 66 national security, the existing law worked, whereas in the sort of cases that should be held in the open—those the Azelle Rodney case, where we are told that national in which the state is potentially implicated and independence security is not at stake, we are also told that there is is essential. something so deadly secret that it cannot be disclosed? Amendment (a) in lieu is a consequential amendment We should bear it in mind that we were told, not on the to allow for the suspension of a normal inquiry, for Floor of the House but by Ministers, that there was no example into a big rail accident, in which there will be chance of an inquest in the de Menezes case unless we none of the implications that I have mentioned. The changed the law—but we did not change the law, there proposals in the Bill cannot be allowed to become part was an inquest, and it was carried out quite satisfactorily. of our law. We have to provide a proper, article 2 compliant process for relatives and the public. Mr. Dismore: My right hon. Friend makes his point. The Rodney case was a police operation to try to bust a David Howarth: I shall deal first with the amendments drug gang. It was a very dangerous gang by the sound tabled by the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore), of it—firearms were involved—but it was not an issue which I support, and then with the Government motion of national security in terms of intercept evidence. to disagree to the Lords amendment introduced by my Given the way that the Bill is currently phrased, there noble Friend Baroness Miller. will be secret inquiries at the behest of the Executive. I have tried to emphasise throughout the debates on The Executive will set the terms of reference, the Minister this part of the Bill that the question is not whether will choose the judge, the Minister or the judge can there are circumstances in which certain things have to restrict attendance at the inquest, the Minister or the be heard out of the public gaze—for example, when judge can restrict the disclosure or publication of evidence important matters of national security arise in the or documents, the Minister can redact reports and course of a coronial investigation—but whether there recommendations at the end of the inquiry, and the should be a jury in important cases of deaths at the Minister can suspend the inquiry merely on the grounds hands of state officials. That is the central question, and that it is in the public interest to do so. That is far more it is why the hon. Gentleman has to be right that it is no broad and generous to the Secretary of State and to solution at all to move from a proposal to have inquests Ministers than the original super-inquest proposals were. without a jury to one to have inquiries without a jury. That is why I am worried that there are no safeguards in That is just as bad, and as he pointed out, it is worse in the Bill that deal with this issue. many respects. Similarly, if the inquest is resumed after the inquiry, The key is public confidence. How can the public be the findings of the inquest are not allowed to be inconsistent confident when someone has died at the hands of a with the outcome of the public inquiry, even if the jury state official—a police officer, a prison officer or an comes to that conclusion. So if a judge is conducting a officer of one of the security services—if the investigation public inquiry and the inquest is later resumed at the into their death is carried out by someone chosen by the behest of the coroner, the jury is not allowed to make a Government, with terms of reference chosen by the certain finding even if that is where the facts take it. Government, and in circumstances in which, as he said, Secret inquests are being replaced by the prospect of the process can be suspended by the Government? The secret inquiries, which will not be adequate and effective Government could also determine the terms of the final investigations. They will not be independent or provide report to some extent. The independence of such an public scrutiny, and they will not involve the next of kin inquiry would be suspect from the start, and the public in the way that they should. would have no confidence in it.

6pm Mr. Allen: Would the hon. Gentleman also say that In the 16th report of the Joint Committee on Human deaths at the hands of state officials sometimes do not Rights, we particularly considered the use of the 2005 take place in public gunfights in broad daylight? They Act and came to the conclusion that may take place in a cell out of the public eye, or when “any Inquiries Act 2005 inquiry specifically designed to circumvent rendition or a severe form of interrogation such as an inquest, in order to meet the Government’s concerns about waterboarding is taking place. Those cases are much disclosure of sensitive information would raise the same or similar harder to bring to public attention, so the safeguards issues as Clauses 11-12”— need to be even tougher. the inquest provisions— “about the independence and effectiveness of that inquiry for the David Howarth: I fully take the hon. Gentleman’s purposes of Article 2”. point. The whole purpose of investigations is to make The current proposals will not give closure to relatives state officials accountable in a way that they would or create public confidence that lessons have been learned. otherwise avoid. To the extent that we do not go along Are families expected to take seriously a secret inquiry the route that the hon. Member for Hendon suggests, chair’s findings as to what happened to their loved one? we will allow unaccountable state action of that sort to It is sometimes difficult enough under the existing open take place. arrangement to convince them that justice has been The Government talk about national security, but as done. Are the public expected to accept the findings of we have argued all along, there is no reason why an a secret inquiry? We have seen the reaction that there ordinary coroner’s court could not carry out the task of has been to recent inquiries—the public have simply protecting national security. It has the power to exclude said that they have been whitewashes. That would happen the press and public or to issue public interest immunity particularly if reports were redacted and the family and certificates, and there is no reason why coroners or even pubic excluded from hearings or from seeing documentary juries should not be security vetted, as juries already are or other evidence. The secret inquiries will cover exactly in espionage and treason trials. The question is, what is 67 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 68

[David Howarth] presenting them as though they were inevitable and would happen on many occasions. Of course, they also the size of the risk, which the Secretary of State keeps say, “These things very rarely happen”, so it does not coming back to, that there will be errors by judges or in strike me as an enormous risk. However, on the other the security vetting of juries? I believe that he exaggerates side there is a risk that provisions such as those in the it. There must be a risk, but to exaggerate it to justify Bill will be used in other cases in which a jury has been the removal of a jury from the process is the wrong way used in the past. That is precisely what the debate about to go. the Menezes case is about—the availability of such The Government keep coming back to the difference provisions and their use much more broadly than the between criminal trials and coroners’ proceedings, and single case to which the Government have pointed they make the point that there is always the option of throughout the debate. stopping a trial, whereas there is no such possibility in a coroner’s inquest. That has never struck me as a particularly Mr. Michael Howard (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): strong argument, because if there were a very important I am trying to follow the hon. Gentleman’s argument, treason or espionage trial, how would it be in the public but I am not at all clear whether his strictures are based interest for prosecutors to believe that the right thing to on the Secretary of State’s reluctance to accept the do was to let someone they believed to be a spy, or amendments put forward by the hon. Member for Hendon worse, go free? In reality, stopping the trial is an option (Mr. Dismore), or whether they relate to the admissibility only in cases in which Government embarrassment is at of intercept evidence. If he is addressing the latter, I stake, rather than real problems of spying, or worse. So must say that the risk may be small and may arise out of that option does not really exist in criminal trials, either. the occasional, rare case, but very significant damage could none the less be done to our national intelligence Sir Alan Beith: I have the utmost respect for my hon. capability. I am not clear whether the hon. Gentleman Friend and his judgment, but I actually think he is has that in mind in the strictures he is making, or wrong about this. A number of cases have arisen over whether he is limiting himself to the proposal of the the years in which prosecuting authorities, security and hon. Member for Hendon. intelligence services and in some cases the police have had to make a judgment that proceeding would cause so David Howarth: In what I have said so far, I have much harm to the chance of collecting intelligence in spoken solely about the proposal of the hon. Member future that it was not the right course of action. for Hendon, without considering the wiretap point, to which I will come separately. Both situations involve the David Howarth: I believe that my right hon. Friend is same sort of judgment, although different levels of risk talking about cases that never start, but I am talking might be involved, as the right hon. and learned Gentleman about trials that are halfway through. Perhaps we should says. study those cases in detail, but the cases in which that I can understand the point made by the hon. and has happened have struck me as being more of a learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) about political nature than those he describes. waiting for Chilcott, and the Secretary of State’s argument that we cannot just insert the Chilcott criteria into the Mr. Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con): I Bill; in fact, that probably would not produce the result am reminded of a former Foreign Secretary in the ABC that my noble Friend was looking for. However, some of case of the late ‘70s, who felt that he had been assured the things I have been hearing about the legal objections that witnesses would not be exposed. The judge took to which Chilcott referred elliptically in his last report a contrary view and the Government dropped the do not make any sense to me. If there are human rights prosecution, having maintained that it was essential for objections or any sort of objections to schemes of national security reasons. partial disclosure, how much more do they apply to schemes of no disclosure at all? That is the argument I David Howarth: That is the type of case I had in have been unable to follow throughout the entire debate. mind. If right hon. and hon. Members have different I also cannot understand why anyone on the Government examples in mind, perhaps they should mention them. side, as the Secretary of State has rightly acknowledged, I believe that for the most part, the Government are says that we must wait for Chilcott, because the original taking comfort in an illusion. The comfort that they version of clause 13 included a scheme that would allow believe they feel does not really exist, because coronial an inquest—admittedly a juryless inquest—to hear wiretap cases and criminal trial cases are much closer than they evidence. There are other examples of wiretap evidence imagine. In the end, it comes down to their distrust of being used by various tribunals—for example, in control the jury as an institution. They keep asking themselves, order and financial restriction proceedings—so the “Who are these people? Where do they come from? We Government have not waited for Chilcott and have don’t know who they are. We didn’t choose them. We done those things already. don’t control them.” Yes, but that is the whole point of This issue comes down to not trusting jurors—and, a jury and it is where the public confidence in using a by the way, not trusting coroners. The idea is that there jury comes from—it is not made up of people under the is some security risk specifically in the coroner’s court control of the authorities. The amendments tabled by and in the jury. The problems one hears about, such as the hon. Member for Hendon are important because fishing expeditions and certain information coming out they would re-establish that principle. if some forms of wiretap were admissible, already apply The question is one of balancing risks and what the in the cases where wiretap evidence is already admissible, reality is of the risks that the Government keep putting and would also apply under the original clause 13. It forward. They keeping giving worst-case scenarios and comes down to whether the Government are right to 69 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 70 distrust the jury in the coroner’s court so much, and a devastating indictment of our system and of the use whether the risks arising simply from the jury are worth of Executive power. Despite the engaging way in which taking. The Government have not yet proved their case my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State talks about on that. How do we know that juries are so unreliable? judicial oversight and superior judges—as I said in an My view is that the House should support the intervention, it is always nice to hear him adulating amendments put forward by the hon. Member for Hendon. superior judges on the occasion that he wishes to enlist I do not want to take up the House’s time with a their assistance in taking over jury trial—the measure is Division on the Government motion to disagree, because no counterweight or counterbalance to a jury sitting in we have already heard that the official Opposition will an open inquiry, listening to how something has gone not be opposing it, so there is no chance of defeating terribly and demonstrably wrong at the behest of the the Government. However, there is a serious chance of Executive. defeating them on the hon. Gentleman’s amendments, My right hon. Friend says that the power will be and I urge all my right hon. and hon. Friends to support exercised only rarely, but we have heard that before on those amendments in a few moments. many occasions—I am going to stop in a moment to give the right hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and Hythe a decent rein—such as when the House 6.15 pm debated giving up jury trial in tampering cases. It was Mr. Marshall-Andrews: I will be very brief—briefer said in this House and in the other place that it would than I would otherwise be—one reason being that like only happen in the rarest of cases, and only when the many Members of the House, I would like to hear the defence had been heard in full on the basis of all the views of the right hon. and learned Member for Folkestone evidence. That has simply not happened. There are two and Hythe (Mr. Howard), if, indeed, Mr. Deputy Speaker, cases now in which the defence has simply not been you were minded to call him at any stage. In that hope, I informed of the reason why jury trial has been denied. will be as brief as I can be. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State may I am grateful to be able to make a contribution in believe that it will happen rarely or will never be used, order to deal with what is a grotesquely overstated but the power that we would be giving to the Executive problem on the part of the Government. My good and should never be given by this House, unless we were right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has always been told in the clearest possible terms that to do so was a a master at creating theoretical, if not to say theological, grave and immediate necessity. No one has made that problems with which he is able to torment Labour Back case today, and in those circumstances I will take great Benchers—he has had a good go at my hon. Friend the pleasure in supporting the ingenious amendment tabled Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore)—and at trying to by my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore). get them to sort out such problems. The plain fact is I could not get it past the Vote Office, but it is a brilliant that by the Secretary of State’s own admission, the idea. problem that this draconian measure seeks to remedy either does not exist or is so infinitesimally small that it Mr. Howard: I must first correct the Secretary of would be a grotesque misuse of the House’s power to State. He said that I was a member of the Chilcot hand the Executive such a very large extension of their committee, but I was not a member of the original powers. committee. The Conservative representative on that committee was Lord Hurd of Westwell, and I took his May I explain why? Juries know all about covert, place when the committee changed its responsibility intercept, intelligence-based evidence. Let us take for and began to supervise the work of the officials in the the moment the example of juries in criminal trials. If a Home Office who have sought a way to meet the nine jury sits down and hears that a massive police operation tests set out by the original committee. Although we nipped a huge bank robbery in the bud, they know have not yet achieved the objective of finding a scheme perfectly well that covert information and intelligence that meets those tests, those officials have been carrying was behind it, unless they are barking mad and come to out their work thoroughly and conscientiously in their the conclusion that the entire flying squad happened to attempt to meet that objective. be assembled at that particular point. Of course, if that I decided that I should contribute to this debate arrangement is successful, there is no problem. The because of my membership of the committee and I am problem does not arise, and we do not have to worry therefore primarily concerned with the question of the about public interest immunity in a criminal court if admissibility of intercept evidence. Until the contribution there is a successful operation and people are caught by the hon. Member for Cambridge (David Howarth), red-handed. it looked as if I need not trouble the House with my It is exactly the same with a coroner’s inquest. If contribution, because—in sharp contrast to what happened somebody has been shot by agents of the state because in the other place—there seemed to be a splendid degree they were believed to be a terrorist, there is no problem of consensus this evening on this subject. Indeed, until if it turns out that the person is a terrorist who was this happy consensus descended on the House, I thought carrying bombs or was in the process of plotting. Such at one point that I would be in the very unfamiliar problems do not exist. Coroners will not be asked to position of voting with the Government against my investigate that kind of evidence. The problem happens own party. Happily, that will not be necessary. when something goes terribly and demonstrably wrong, It is worth setting out the history of the matter, partly which is why it is so rare. to excuse the fact that my contribution lacks all novelty. However, when something goes that wrong, and when I am here to repeat the arguments that I put before the something goes as wrong as it did the Jean Charles de House on the Second Reading of the Counter-Terrorism Menezes case, there must be a public inquiry. Having a Bill on 10 June 2008 and the Second Reading of this Bill private, secret inquiry in those circumstances would be on 23 March this year. After I made my intervention on 71 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 72

[Mr. Howard] to look at the possibility of admitting intercept evidence in coroners’ inquests. I cannot speak for the right hon. the former, the provisions that would have made intercept Gentleman, but I would happily agree to the remit of evidence admissible at coroners’ inquests were removed the committee being widened in that way. from the Bill. I do not lay claim to a causal connection I have listened with great care and interest to the between my intervention and the removal of the provisions: arguments on the amendment tabled by the hon. Member I merely set out the facts. I was therefore somewhat for Hendon (Mr. Dismore). The Secretary of State put surprised when this Bill appeared and those provisions a reasonable question to the hon. Gentleman, which he reappeared. Once again, I voiced my opposition on was not entirely capable of answering, but on balance I Second Reading, and once again—this time at Committee shall support the hon. Gentleman and my hon. Friends stage in the other place—the Government removed in the Lobby, if only because it will provide another them from the Bill, and I was happy to see that. It is week for the Secretary of State to take the opportunity noteworthy that on that occasion they were removed to answer the question that he posed to the hon. Gentleman from the Bill without a Division. and to come forward with a satisfactory regime that It therefore came as an even greater surprise that, on would deal with some of the mischiefs that were identified Report in the other place, those amendments designed so eloquently by many of the contributors to this debate, to provide for the admissibility of intercept evidence not least the hon. and learned Member for Medway were put back into the Bill, this time against the wishes (Mr. Marshall-Andrews). of the Government but at the behest of both the principal Opposition parties in the other place. I am especially Mr. Straw: With the leave of the House, I wish to grateful to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for reply to the debate. Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) for accepting the Government’s I thank the right hon. and learned Member for view that to put those provisions in this Bill would have Folkestone and Hythe (Mr. Howard) for his remarks. I damaging and profound consequences for our intercept wondered how he would conclude, because I understand regime, which makes it unnecessary for me to take the his discomfort in abstaining or not supporting those on very unfamiliar position of supporting the Government his Front Bench. He went in for some wonderful casuistry in the Lobby this evening. to move from the position that he had adopted to the It is important that the House understands that I do position that he now supports. not take this position because I object in principle to the admissibility of intercept evidence. On the contrary, I I say to my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon have made it clear on numerous occasions, both in the (Mr. Dismore) and others who spoke that I am glad House and outside, that I would very much like to see that there is a profound difference between the view of provision made for intercept material to be admitted in this House and that of the other place. The view from evidence, especially in cases of those accused of terrorism all parts of this House—my hon. Friend added his and other serious criminal offences. But things are not name to my amendment to delete the additional provisions as simple as that. They are certainly not as simple as put forward by Baroness Miller in the other place—is was suggested by the hon. Member for Cambridge. that everybody accepts that there have to be circumstances where intercept evidence is kept from a jury hearing an The work that has been carried out by the officials in inquest, so that at least is progress. the Home Office, and which has been supervised by the Chilcot committee in its present form, has been exhaustive, Then we hear suggestions that there are ways round and it continues. The nine tests that were set out by the that. My hon. Friend the Member for Hendon and my original Chilcot committee were necessary if we were to hon. and learned Friend the Member for Medway protect a capability of the greatest importance in keeping (Mr. Marshall-Andrews) say, “Well, we can do it through the people of our country safe. It is one of the frustrating the existing measures.” We have been through that. things about the argument that one cannot go very far There are some cases—I assure my hon. Friend that into the details of justifying the need for those tests they are indeed few and far between—where having a without getting perilously close to putting the capability jury trial will result in an injustice, because there will be at risk. I am sure that the right hon. Member for key evidence that cannot go before the jury as a finder Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith), who sits on the of fact. With respect, where he is wrong is in suggesting committee with me, would agree, although I must point that an inquiry headed by a senior judge would not be out that I do not speak for the committee. It would be article 2 compliant. What would not be article 2 compliant foolhardy to retain in the Bill the provisions that were in those circumstances would be the inquest jury, which inserted on Report in the other place. They do not meet would not be able to conduct a proper examination. the tests of the original Chilcot committee and, if they were to remain in the Bill, they would be a risk to this 6.30 pm country’s strategic intelligence capability that no responsible There is another important point that I would make Government should take. to the House, as the Opposition, as well as my hon. Sir Alan Beith: I hope that the right hon. and learned Friends, need to apply themselves to that which they Gentleman would agree that neither of us wishes to seek to vote on in a moment, although I would advise exclude the possibility of finding a way to bring such my hon. Friends not to do so. My hon. Friend the evidence to bear in cases in which the object is to Member for Hendon proposes that we delete paragraphs 3 establish a cause of death. What we have at the moment and 8 of schedule 1. Paragraph 3 allows for a suspension does not achieve that. of an inquest where there is an inquiry appointed under the Inquiries Act 2005 and where a judge has been Mr. Howard: I agree, and as the right hon. Gentleman appointed to hear that inquiry. I have already made it will know, we have today been invited by the Home clear that in practice—I am happy to put this on the Secretary to extend the remit of the advisory committee record again, and everybody who knows the practice 73 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 74 knows this to be true—there could be no such appointment Mr. Deputy Speaker: The right hon. Gentleman without the consent of the Lord Chief Justice, and his anticipates me. The only way in which amendment (a) consent would be forthcoming only where he was satisfied in lieu can be put to the vote is if he is prepared to about the circumstances and the discretion available to move it. the learned judge. Those undertakings are absolutely clear. Mr. Straw: Provided that the House understands that I should also make it clear that if we were to pass the I shall vote against it. proposed amendments, that would not result in there Amendment (a) proposed in lieu of Lords amendments 1, being no inquiry under the Inquiries Act 2005. Rather, 2 and 216.—(Mr. Straw.) it would simply result in an inquest, which could not Question put, That the amendment be made. hear the evidence, running in parallel with an investigation that could hear the evidence. I suggest that that is the The House divided: Ayes 266, Noes 274. worst of all possible worlds—[Interruption.] I am being Division No. 241] [6.35 pm told to keep speaking. I am always happy to keep speaking. Although I appreciate his motives, I would AYES ask my hon. Friend to appreciate what exactly he is Abbott, Ms Diane Crabb, Mr. Stephen proposing. He would end up with a muddle, where there Afriyie, Adam Curry, rh Mr. David would still be a requirement— Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Davey, Mr. Edward Allen, Mr. Graham Davies, Mr. Dai Amess, Mr. David Davies, David T.C. 6.33 pm Ancram, rh Mr. Michael (Monmouth) One and a half hours having elapsed since the Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Davies, Philip commencement of proceedings on consideration of Lords Atkinson, Mr. Peter Davis, rh David amendments, the debate was interrupted (Programme Austin, John Dismore, Mr. Andrew Order, this day). Baker, Norman Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Baldry, Tony Dobson, rh Frank The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question already Barrett, John Drew, Mr. David proposed from the Chair (Standing Order No. 83F), Beith, rh Sir Alan Duddridge, James That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 1. Bellingham, Mr. Henry Duncan, Alan Question agreed to. Benyon, Mr. Richard Durkan, Mark Beresford, Sir Paul Ellwood, Mr. Tobias Lords amendment 1 accordingly disagreed to. Blunt, Mr. Crispin Evans, Mr. Nigel The Deputy Speaker then put forthwith the Questions Bone, Mr. Peter Evennett, Mr. David necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded Boswell, Mr. Tim Fabricant, Michael at that time (Standing Order No. 83F). Bottomley, Peter Fallon, Mr. Michael Brady, Mr. Graham Farrelly, Paul Lords amendment 2 disagreed to. Brake, Tom Farron, Tim Lords amendment 216 disagreed to. Brazier, Mr. Julian Featherstone, Lynne Breed, Mr. Colin Field, rh Mr. Frank Mr. Dismore: With the leave of the House, I would Brokenshire, James Field, Mr. Mark like to move amendment (a) in lieu. Brooke, Annette Fisher, Mark Browne, Mr. Jeremy Foster, Mr. Don Browning, Angela Fox, Dr. Liam Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Ihaveto Bruce, rh Malcolm Fraser, Christopher inform the House that it is not possible under the terms Buck, Ms Karen Garnier, Mr. Edward of the programme order for the hon. Gentleman’s Burgon, Colin Gauke, Mr. David amendment to be put to the House. That is quite clearly Burns, Mr. Simon George, Andrew laid down in the programme order and is backed by the Burrowes, Mr. David Gerrard, Mr. Neil appropriate Standing Order, so we have to move on. Burstow, Mr. Paul Gibb, Mr. Nick Burt, Alistair Gidley, Sandra Burt, Lorely Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl Mr. Grieve: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Butterfill, Sir John Goldsworthy, Julia I have to express some amazement that this has happened. Cable, Dr. Vincent Goodman, Mr. Paul If that is indeed the case, it is contrary to my earlier Cameron, rh Mr. David Gove, Michael understanding that it would be possible to vote on Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Gray, Mr. James amendment (a) in lieu. Indeed, the whole reason for Carmichael, Mr. Alistair Grayling, Chris that, as you will have appreciated from the tenor of the Carswell, Mr. Douglas Green, Damian House, was that we should be able to vote on that Cash, Mr. William Greening, Justine precise amendment. Caton, Mr. Martin Greenway, Mr. John Challen, Colin Grieve, Mr. Dominic Mr. Deputy Speaker: I was all too aware that that was Chope, Mr. Christopher Grogan, Mr. John the consequence, but once the Justice Secretary spoke Clappison, Mr. James Hague, rh Mr. William Clark, Greg Hammond, Mr. Philip until 6.33 pm, that left the Chair with no option on this Clark, Ms Katy Hammond, Stephen matter. Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth Hancock, Mr. Mike Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey Hands, Mr. Greg Mr. Straw: Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Conway, Derek Harper, Mr. Mark Speaker. I had no intention of doing that. I think that Corbyn, Jeremy Harris, Mr. Tom there ought to be a vote on amendment (a) in lieu, and Cormack, Sir Patrick Harvey, Nick if it requires me to move it, I will move it. Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Havard, Mr. Dai 75 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 76

Hayes, Mr. John Newmark, Mr. Brooks Willetts, Mr. David Winterton, Ann Heald, Mr. Oliver Osborne, Mr. George Williams, Hywel Winterton, Sir Nicholas Heath, Mr. David Ottaway, Richard Williams, Mark Wishart, Pete Heathcoat-Amory, rh Pelling, Mr. Andrew Williams, Mr. Roger Wright, Jeremy Mr. David Penning, Mike Williams, Stephen Yeo, Mr. Tim Hemming, John Penrose, John Willis, Mr. Phil Young, rh Sir George Hendry, Charles Pickles, Mr. Eric Willott, Jenny Tellers for the Ayes: Hoban, Mr. Mark Prentice, Mr. Gordon Wilshire, Mr. David Mr. John Baron and Hoey, Kate Price, Adam Wilson, Mr. Rob Mr. Philip Dunne Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas Prisk, Mr. Mark Hollobone, Mr. Philip Pritchard, Mark Holloway, Mr. Adam Pugh, Dr. John NOES Holmes, Paul Randall, Mr. John Ainger, Nick Cunningham, Mr. Jim Hopkins, Kelvin Redwood, rh Mr. John Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Cunningham, Tony Horam, Mr. John Reid, Mr. Alan Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Curtis-Thomas, Mrs. Claire Horwood, Martin Rennie, Willie Anderson, Mr. David Darling, rh Mr. Alistair Howard, rh Mr. Michael Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Anderson, Janet David, Mr. Wayne Howarth, David Robathan, Mr. Andrew Armstrong, rh Hilary Davies, Mr. Quentin Howarth, Mr. Gerald Robertson, Angus Atkins, Charlotte Dean, Mrs. Janet Howell, John Robertson, Hugh Austin, Mr. Ian Denham, rh Mr. John Hughes, Simon Robertson, Mr. Laurence Baird, Vera Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Huhne, Chris Rogerson, Dan Balls, rh Ed Dobbin, Jim Hunt, Mr. Jeremy Rosindell, Andrew Banks, Gordon Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. Hunter, Mark Rowen, Paul Barlow, Ms Celia Doran, Mr. Frank Hurd, Mr. Nick Ruffley, Mr. David Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Eagle, Angela Jack, rh Mr. Michael Russell, Bob Battle, rh John Eagle, Maria Jackson, Glenda Sanders, Mr. Adrian Bayley, Hugh Efford, Clive Jackson, Mr. Stewart Scott, Mr. Lee Beckett, rh Margaret Ellman, Mrs. Louise Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Selous, Andrew Begg, Miss Anne Engel, Natascha Jones, Mr. David Shapps, Grant Bell, Sir Stuart Ennis, Jeff Jones, Lynne Shepherd, Mr. Richard Benn, rh Hilary Etherington, Bill Kawczynski, Daniel Short, rh Clare Benton, Mr. Joe Fitzpatrick, Jim Keetch, Mr. Paul Simmonds, Mark Berry, Roger Flello, Mr. Robert Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Simpson, Alan Betts, Mr. Clive Flint, rh Caroline Key, Robert Simpson, Mr. Keith Blackman, Liz Flynn, Paul Knight, rh Mr. Greg Smith, Chloe Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta Follett, Barbara Laing, Mrs. Eleanor Smith, Sir Robert Blears, rh Hazel Foster, Mr. Michael Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Soames, Mr. Nicholas Blizzard, Mr. Bob (Worcester) Lamb, Norman Spelman, Mrs. Caroline Borrow, Mr. David S. Foster, Michael Jabez Lansley, Mr. Andrew Spicer, Sir Michael Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben (Hastings and Rye) Laws, Mr. David Stanley, rh Sir John Brennan, Kevin Francis, Dr. Hywel Leech, Mr. John Steen, Mr. Anthony Brown, Lyn Gapes, Mike Leigh, Mr. Edward Streeter, Mr. Gary Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Gardiner, Barry Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver Stuart, Mr. Graham Brown, Mr. Russell George, rh Mr. Bruce Lewis, Dr. Julian Stunell, Andrew Bryant, Chris Gilroy, Linda Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Swayne, Mr. Desmond Burden, Richard Godsiff, Mr. Roger Lidington, Mr. David Swinson, Jo Burnham, rh Andy Goggins, rh Paul Lilley, rh Mr. Peter Swire, Mr. Hugo Butler, Ms Dawn Goodman, Helen Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn Syms, Mr. Robert Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Griffith, Nia Loughton, Tim Taylor, Mr. Ian Cairns, David Griffiths, Nigel Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew Taylor, Dr. Richard Campbell, Mr. Alan Gwynne, Andrew Mackinlay, Andrew Teather, Sarah Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Hain, rh Mr. Peter Maclean, rh David Thurso, John Cawsey, Mr. Ian Hall, Mr. Mike Mactaggart, Fiona Timpson, Mr. Edward Chapman, Ben Hall, Patrick Main, Anne Tredinnick, David Chaytor, Mr. David Hamilton, Mr. David Malins, Mr. Humfrey Truswell, Mr. Paul Clapham, Mr. Michael Hanson, rh Mr. David Maples, Mr. John Turner, Mr. Andrew Clark, Paul Harman, rh Ms Harriet Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Healey, rh John Mason, John Vaizey, Mr. Edward Clarke,rhMr.Tom Henderson, Mr. Doug May, rh Mrs. Theresa Vara, Mr. Shailesh Clelland, Mr. David Hendrick, Mr. Mark McCrea, Dr. William Viggers, Sir Peter Clwyd, rh Ann Hepburn, Mr. Stephen McDonnell, John Villiers, Mrs. Theresa Coaker, Mr. Vernon Heppell, Mr. John McIntosh, Miss Anne Walker, Mr. Charles Coffey, Ann Hesford, Stephen McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Wallace, Mr. Ben Connarty, Michael Heyes, David Mercer, Patrick Walter, Mr. Robert Cooper, Rosie Hill, rh Keith Miller, Mrs. Maria Wareing, Mr. Robert N. Cooper, rh Yvette Hodge, rh Margaret Milton, Anne Waterson, Mr. Nigel Cousins, Jim Hood, Mr. Jim Mitchell, Mr. Andrew Watkinson, Angela Crausby, Mr. David Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Moss, Mr. Malcolm Webb, Steve Creagh, Mary Hope, Phil Mulholland, Greg Whittingdale, Mr. John Cruddas, Jon Howarth, rh Mr. George Mullin, Mr. Chris Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann Cryer, Mrs. Ann Howells, rh Dr. Kim Neill, Robert Wiggin, Bill Cummings, John Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay 77 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 78

Humble, Mrs. Joan Olner, Mr. Bill Watts, Mr. Dave Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Hutton, rh Mr. John Osborne, Sandra Whitehead, Dr. Alan Woolas, Mr. Phil Iddon, Dr. Brian Owen, Albert Wicks, rh Malcolm Wright, David Illsley, Mr. Eric Palmer, Dr. Nick Williams, rh Mr. Alan Wright, Dr. Tony Irranca-Davies, Huw Pearson, Ian Williams, Mrs. Betty Wyatt, Derek James, Mrs. Siân C. Plaskitt, Mr. James Wills, rh Mr. Michael Tellers for the Noes: Jenkins, Mr. Brian Pope, Mr. Greg Wilson, Phil Mark Tami and Johnson, rh Alan Pound, Stephen Winnick, Mr. David Mrs. Sharon Hodgson Johnson, Ms Diana R. Prentice, Bridget Jones, Helen Prescott, rh Mr. John Jones, Mr. Kevan Primarolo, rh Dawn Question accordingly negatived. Jowell, rh Tessa Prosser, Gwyn Joyce, Mr. Eric Purchase, Mr. Ken Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Purnell, rh James Clause 45 Keeble, Ms Sally Rammell, Bill Keeley, Barbara Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick MEANING OF “QUALIFYING TRIGGER” Keen, Ann Reed, Mr. Andy Kelly, rh Ruth Reed, Mr. Jamie The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Kemp, Mr. Fraser Reid, rh John Justice (Claire Ward): I beg to move, That this House Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Robertson, John Kidney, Mr. David Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey disagrees with Lords amendment 55. Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Rooney, Mr. Terry Knight, rh Jim Roy, Lindsay Mr. Deputy Speaker: With this it will be convenient Kumar, Dr. Ashok Ruane, Chris to discuss the following: Government amendment (a) in Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Ruddock, Joan lieu of Lords amendment 55. Lammy, rh Mr. David Russell, Christine Laxton, Mr. Bob Ryan, rh Joan Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): On a Lepper, David Salter, Martin point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We had an Levitt, Tom Seabeck, Alison unsatisfactory end to the previous debate due to the Lewis, Mr. Ivan Sharma, Mr. Virendra terms of the programme motion. The amendment in Linton, Martin Shaw, Jonathan lieu, on which the whole House had expected to vote, Lloyd, Tony Sheerman, Mr. Barry could be properly considered only if the Lord Chancellor Love, Mr. Andrew Sheridan, Jim was prepared to move it from the Dispatch Box. Is it not Lucas, Ian Simon, Mr. Siôn MacShane, rh Mr. Denis Singh, Mr. Marsha the case that the same will apply with the forthcoming Mahmood, Mr. Khalid Skinner, Mr. Dennis group of amendments, and that the amendment in lieu Malik, Mr. Shahid Slaughter, Mr. Andy cannot be taken if the Minister is still speaking when Mallaber, Judy Smith, rh Mr. Andrew the knife falls? Would it not be in the interest of proper Mann, John Smith, Ms Angela C. debate if the Minister sat down before that point, or Marris, Rob (Sheffield, Hillsborough) adopted the same principle of moving the amendment Marsden, Mr. Gordon Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon) in lieu, so that the House may have a voice on the McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Smith, Geraldine matter? McCabe, Steve Smith, rh Jacqui McCarthy, Kerry Snelgrove, Anne Mr. Deputy Speaker: The hon. Gentleman’s assumption McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Southworth, Helen is correct. On the previous occasion we got into a McDonagh, Siobhain Spellar, rh Mr. John difficulty by accident, but we were rescued in a way that McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Spink, Bob satisfied the House, and enabled the vote to take place. McFall, rh John Starkey, Dr. Phyllis McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Stewart, Ian That is the position. McKechin, Ann Stoate, Dr. Howard McKenna, Rosemary Straw, rh Mr. Jack Claire Ward: The Government cannot accept the McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Stringer, Graham amendment passed in the other place to remove the Meale, Mr. Alan Stuart, Ms Gisela sexual infidelity exclusion in the new partial defence of Merron, Gillian Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry loss of control. The history of the partial defence of Michael, rh Alun Taylor, Ms Dari provocation has led to a commonly held belief that this Miliband, rh Edward Taylor, David defence can be abused by men who kill their wives out Miller, Andrew Thomas, Mr. Gareth of sexual jealousy—[Interruption.] Mitchell, Mr. Austin Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Moffatt, Laura Tipping, Paddy Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I am sorry to interrupt Mole, Chris Todd, Mr. Mark the Minister. We have moved on to other business, and I Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Touhig, rh Mr. Don must ask hon. Members who do not intend to stay for Morden, Jessica Trickett, Jon this debate to leave as quickly and quietly as possible. Morgan, Julie Turner, Dr. Desmond The noise is quite unfair to the Minister and those who Morley, rh Mr. Elliot Turner, Mr. Neil are trying to listen to her. Mudie, Mr. George Twigg, Derek Munn, Meg Ussher, Kitty Murphy, Mr. Denis Vaz, rh Keith Claire Ward: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Vis, Dr. Rudi The history of the partial defence of provocation has Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Walley, Joan led to a commonly held belief that this defence can be Naysmith, Dr. Doug Waltho, Lynda abused by men who kill their wives out of sexual Norris, Dan Ward, Claire jealousy or revenge for infidelity.This erodes the confidence O’Hara, Mr. Edward Watson, Mr. Tom of the public in the fairness of the criminal justice 79 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 80

[Claire Ward] infidelity. What has the Minister got into her head that is making her want to withdraw that historic right from system. Even accepting that a great deal has been done a jury? in recent years to address this problem, and that pleas of provocation generally do not succeed on the basis of Claire Ward: Frankly, we do not think that it is sexual infidelity, it is still true that under current law appropriate, in this day and age, for a man to be able to that defence can be raised and could succeed. say that he killed his wife as a result of sexual infidelity. That is essentially the reason. If other factors come into Mr. Grieve: The hon. Lady will be aware that, only play, the court will of course have an opportunity to two weeks ago, there was a case in which a jury came to consider them, but it will not be able to make the precisely that conclusion under the existing rules and decision exclusively on the ground of sexual infidelity. reduced the offence of murder to manslaughter on the The sexual infidelity exclusion applies in relation to the ground of sexual infidelity as part of the provocation. words and conduct limb of the new partial defence to Will she identify from where the outcry came, as a result murder of loss of control. of that difficult decision for the jury, to suggest that it has undermined confidence in the criminal justice system? Why is she suggesting that we should not leave to Mr. Grieve: Let us just take a quick example. A members of the public sitting on juries the difficult task woman is abused by her husband over a long period, at of making a judgment in these matters? What is the the end of which they are reconciled. He says that he basis on which the Government wish to withdraw that will moderate his behaviour and promises to be faithful right from the jury? to her in future. She comes home the following weekend to find him in flagrante with his lover. He tells her that Claire Ward: The hon. and learned Gentleman is the marriage is now at end, and she kills him. How is the right to raise that recent case, but the reality is that there jury going to be invited to disentangle the elements that is still an opportunity under existing law for that defence went into causing that act? How is it supposed to to succeed. The jury in that case decided that it was not disentangle the abuse, which it will be entitled to take appropriate, but it remains possible that a different jury, into account, from the sexual infidelity, which the Minister in different circumstances, might decide that it could now tells us that the Government, in their wisdom, have succeed. decided to deny it the opportunity to consider?

Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham) Claire Ward: The court may of course take into (Con): The hon. Lady will know that, in 2004, the Law account whether there has been abuse, as well as other Commission published its report “Partial Defences to factors, but it will not be able to take into account a set Murder” and, prior to that, a consultation paper. I am of circumstances in which the defendant kills someone not aware that either document suggested that sexual in an attempt to punish them or carry out some form of infidelity should be removed from the classes of conduct revenge purely as a result of sexual infidelity. I am really capable of amounting to the defence of provocation, quite surprised that the hon. and learned Gentleman should the jury so decide. thinks that it is acceptable, in this day and age, for someone to use the partial defence that sexual infidelity Claire Ward: The general issue around provocation, is an acceptable reason for killing. and the change of defence, has been accepted by both Houses. The issue here is in respect of sexual infidelity. In respect of the particular case that the hon. and Mr. Grieve: This is not just my view. Perhaps the learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) mentioned Minister would like to be candid with the House about a moment ago, the jury came to a considered view on what the Law Commission was advising the Government, the attempted use of the defence of sexual infidelity, even up to a few weeks ago, on the coherence of their but that case also specifically referred to diminished proposals. My understanding is that the Government responsibility. have received the clearest, most unequivocal advice from the Law Commission that this particular proposal— Mr. Hogg: The Minister is slightly misunderstanding which was never in the commission’s proposals—is my point, and that might be my responsibility. The nonsense. point that I am making is that the Law Commission did not—either in its final report or in its consultation Claire Ward: The Law Commission has said that such document—suggest that sexual infidelity should be excluded cases should not be left to the jury. Perhaps the hon. from the classes of case that were capable of amounting and learned Gentleman would like to refer to page 65, to provocation. paragraph 3.143. Now perhaps I can move on—

Claire Ward: However, there is now a commonly held Mr. Hogg: Page 65 of what? belief that cases exist in which that defence has been used successfully. We want to put the matter beyond Claire Ward: Of the Law Commission report. Now any doubt. perhaps I can move on— Mr. Grieve: I still do not understand why the defence should not be used successfully. Why does the Minister Mr. Hogg: I have the Law Commission’s report here. wish to deny to a jury the right to make an assessment as to whether the offence should be reduced from Claire Ward: It is on page 65, paragraph 3.143. I am murder to manslaughter on the basis of provocation? In happy to take further interventions as I proceed through virtually every other area, it will be allowed to make my speech, which will perhaps give the right hon. and that decision, but apparently not in the case of sexual learned Gentleman an opportunity to consider the report. 81 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 82

Mr. Grieve: The Minister knows that the Law Claire Ward: I think that a very important principle is Commission’s original proposals were cherry-picked at stake here: whether or not this House believes—it has by the Government. They decided not to adopt the already put its views on this matter on the record—that commission’s proposals for the categories of murder 1 when a person commits sexual infidelity they in some and murder 2. I say again to the Minister that my sense bring upon their own death at the hands of their understanding is that, at a meeting that took place— partner, husband or wife. That surely cannot be the way certainly not under Chatham House rules—between the in which we should proceed. The reality is that in many Government, their advisers and the Opposition in the court cases, it was decided that that was not an appropriate Lords, the representative of the Law Commission publicly partial defence, so we wish to make it absolutely clear in urged the Government to desist from this course of the Bill that it cannot be a partial defence in those action. circumstances. Claire Ward: Perhaps I can refer to page 65 of the Law Commission report. It states: Mr. Llwyd: May I tell the Minister about a case I was involved in not so long ago? A person was bragging “In Smith (Morgan), Lord Hoffmann, agreeing with the decision, said: about having had relations with a man’s wife. The man who was offended went out, bought a knife and stabbed Male possessiveness and jealousy should not today be an acceptable reason for loss of self-control leading to homicide, the other person to death. Would the person using the whether inflicted upon the woman herself or her new lover.” knife have a defence or not? The man killed had said That, I think, provides some support across a number that he had been with the man’s wife and various rude of areas. things, so would the new defence be open to the individual who killed the man immediately with the knife? Several hon. Members rose— Claire Ward: I do not think it is a matter for me to set Claire Ward: I will take some more interventions in a out the circumstances; it would depend on the context, few moments, but I want to proceed a little further. which is what the court would have to consider. We are simply saying that sexual infidelity in itself cannot and 7pm should not be an acceptable reason for a defence for The sexual infidelity exclusion applies in relation to murder. the words and conduct limb of the new partial defence to murder of loss of control. For that limb of the partial Anne Main (St. Albans) (Con): Does not the Minister defence to succeed, the defendant must persuade the accept that the sexual bond between two people gives jury of the following: that he or she killed, or was a them a greater closeness and involvement than with any party to killing another as a result of losing their other people in their lives, which is why people would self-control; that this loss of self-control was triggered use this as a plea—because the betrayal is so much by a thing or things done or said—or perhaps both—that, greater and the anger may be so much more than in any first, constituted circumstances of an extremely grave other situation? character and, secondly, caused them to have a justifiable sense of being seriously wronged. Finally, the defendant must show that a person of their sex and age with a Claire Ward: I do not for a moment deny that passions normal degree of tolerance and self-restraint and in will be incredibly high when such personal relationships their circumstances might have reacted in the same or in are under pressure in the circumstances that many a similar way to the defendant. Members are describing, but surely the hon. Lady would This is a purposely high threshold designed to narrow agree that this House and our legislation should not say the circumstances in which a partial defence to murder that dealing with such matters in such a violent way is can be made out based on anger. However, in order to acceptable. It is not and cannot be acceptable—and we put the matter beyond any doubt, the Bill as introduced want to make it perfectly clear in the legislation that it is in this House also made specific provision that in assessing unacceptable. whether the things said or done constituted a trigger for loss of self-control, the fact that a thing done or Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North) (Lab): At a time said constituted sexual infidelity is to be disregarded by when we are very concerned about so-called “honour the jury. killings”, which in no way involve honour, is it not very important that this House should send out a perfectly Miss Ann Widdecombe (Maidstone and The Weald) clear message, as my hon. Friend has said, that sexual (Con): I am grateful to the hon. Lady who has given infidelity can never be an excuse—no matter what the way very generously. I am not a lawyer, so perhaps we links in a marriage or partnership, as described by the can put this into terms that a layman can understand. hon. Member for St. Albans (Anne Main)—for what is, The difference between murder and manslaughter is after all, murder? essentially the difference between premeditation and instantaneous reaction. If a man or woman comes home and finds her spouse in flagrante and loses control Claire Ward: I certainly agree with my hon. Friend. on the spot—not having premeditated finding such a Of course we do not believe that fidelity, however thing—and hits the spouse over the head with a saucepan, desirable, is appropriately or effectively championed by which, instead of merely silencing, kills that spouse, treating the victims of infidelity, who go on to kill their most rational people would say that that was manslaughter, unfaithful partner, more leniently. That is essentially the not murder. If we are completely to disregard the sexual issue. infidelity in that situation, it removes a defence that would be reasonable in all other circumstances. (Rugby and Kenilworth) (Con) rose— 83 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 84

Claire Ward: I shall give way for the very last time, as words to achieve the Government’s purposes in clause 45. I need to make some progress. However, the way in which the amendment is drafted is unacceptable, for two reasons. First, the amendment Jeremy Wright: I am grateful. May I bring the Minister restricts the possible motives to three: punishment, sexual back to the wording of the Bill? Surely the difficulty jealousy, or sexual envy. Therefore, in cases where sexual here is not that we are asking for new law that would infidelity is involved, if the defendant argued that the make sexual infidelity of itself and solely a qualifying action he or she took was due not to one of those trigger in this context; rather, the problem is that the motives, but to betrayal, breach of honour, or outrage Bill provides that a thing done or said that constitutes to morality or decency, they could rely on the partial sexual infidelity is to be disregarded. The Minister defence. Therefore, if the intention behind the hon. would be right if the Bill set this out as solely sufficient Gentleman’s amendment is what I would hope it to be, for a qualifying trigger, but it does not; surely what is it has a loophole. unrealistic is, as my hon. and learned Friend the Member Secondly, the terms of the amendment are drafted for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) said, that the jury is being too widely: punishing a person for any act perceived as invited to take no notice at all of something that must sexual infidelity would not qualify for the partial defence. count as relevant circumstances. The Government’s amendment would ensure that a Claire Ward: We need to look at the reality and at partial defence could be used, for example, in the extremely what we believe is acceptable. I have to say again that it grave circumstances in which a woman killed her husband cannot be acceptable for a man, for example, who finds after she came home and found him raping her child. his wife in a state with her lover and decides to kill her However, under the hon. Gentleman’s amendment, if to use the fact of her sexual infidelity as a partial the act was perceived as sexual infidelity, even though defence. That is not an acceptable way for our legislation that might not have been the main consideration in the to proceed. loss of control, its existence would exclude reliance on the partial defence. Several hon. Members rose— David Howarth: Under my amendment, all such issues Claire Ward: I want to make some progress and deal would be for the jury to decide. I find it difficult to with a couple of other issues that have been raised in the believe that the jury would find in the direction that the debate. Minister suggests. The core argument against this provision, as put forward in the other place, centred on the notion that Claire Ward: The hon. Gentleman would therefore the Government were not prepared to trust the common leave in some doubt whether there were circumstances sense of the jury. I believe that that is essentially the in which sexual infidelity would be acceptable as a argument put by the hon. and learned Member for defence for murder. Beaconsfield. That argument is simply misplaced. The provision does not reflect a lack of trust in the jury; David Howarth: The Minister cannot have it both what it does reflect is the Government’s determination ways. First she says that my amendment catches more to ensure that the law in this matter keeps pace with the cases of sexual infidelity, and now she claims that it times. In this day and age, it should not be possible for catches too few. I wish the Government would make up any person, regardless of gender or sexuality, to stand their mind. up in court and blame their partner—let us not forget that it is the partner that they themselves have killed—for Claire Ward: That is not what I am saying. There are having brought on their own death by having had an circumstances—the prime example is of a wife seeing affair. her husband having sex with their child or a stepchild—in which sexual infidelity has taken place, but that would Mr. Grieve: Will the hon. Lady give way? not be the primary issue on which the defence would, or Claire Ward: I am going to make some progress; I will could, rely under our legislation. They would rely on come back to the hon. and learned Gentleman. the extremely grave set of circumstances of the abuse of that child. In modernising the law in this matter, we have purposely set a very high threshold for the circumstances in which killing in anger could ever be treated as manslaughter David Howarth: But that is the whole point of the rather than murder. The words and conduct limb of the words, partial defence is the main plank for achieving this, but “where D acted principally out of”. we also believe that in relation to sexual infidelity, it The Minister’s example does not work. is important to set out the position precisely and uncompromisingly—namely that sexual infidelity is not Claire Ward: The example does work, because the the kind of thing done that is ever sufficient on its own hon. Gentleman’s amendment would still allow sexual to found a successful plea of loss of control so as to infidelity to be used as a partial defence. [Interruption.] reduce the verdict from murder to manslaughter. Having looked at the matter carefully, I am afraid that I want to express one or two concerns about the that is the case. Under the amendment as drafted, the amendment in lieu proposed by the hon. Member for moment that a person perceived that sexual infidelity Cambridge (David Howarth). There may not be sufficient had taken place—as they would if they saw their husband time at the end of the debate—I hope there will be—so I have sex with their child—they would rely on that will say a few words about it now. I think I should be defence. That would not be an acceptable defence, but grateful to the hon. Gentleman for an amendment in there would be an acceptable defence on the grounds of which I believe he is trying to find an alternative form of those extremely grave circumstances of sex with a child. 85 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 86

Miss Widdecombe: I thank the hon. Lady for generously that sexual infidelity can never justify violent behaviour. giving way to me a second time. The Minister decided to pick some examples, but in I doubt that I am the only Member who is getting doing so she started to undermine her case very quickly. very confused. The hon. Lady appears to be saying that Most reasonable people might have no difficulty concluding sexual infidelity can never be a reason for pleading that the fact that one’s partner is sexually unfaithful provocation to murder. We all accept that, but that is would not in itself constitute a ground on which anybody also the case with all the other reasons why people should raise a finger against them. However, human might plead provocation. The fact that somebody comes nature, and the nature of sexual relationships, shows home drunk seven days a week is not a good enough that, unfortunately, that happens very frequently. Juries reason to kill them, but we know that sometimes that have to apply their mind to that, and in my experience can happen. What is unique about sexual infidelity that they will tend very quickly to put things in different it must be removed from the almost endless list of categories. They will take account of the circumstances circumstances in which somebody might be provoked? in order to establish the extent to which a person has been deceived, the extent to which a person has been 7.15 pm treated badly, or the extent to which general tenets relating to the reasonable humane behaviour that we Claire Ward: The circumstances are quite different. owe each other have been violated. Perhaps the right hon. Lady is suggesting that when The Minister said that if someone came home and somebody sees their husband or wife having an affair, found his or her partner was being sexually unfaithful that would be a partial defence for committing extreme with a child, that would not matter. What about the violence—killing somebody. The right hon. Lady is circumstances in which someone came home and found clearly not in a position to be convinced, but the that his or her partner was being sexually unfaithful Government are clear that that cannot be an acceptable with a sibling, or a parent? Those things could happen, partial defence. Although many juries might disagree, but they would not constitute a breach of the criminal there have been examples in the past in which a court law, unlike the Minister’s example involving a child. has considered that sexual infidelity was a sufficient I suggest to the Minister that all those examples are provocation to allow murder to be reduced to manslaughter. of a kind that might lead a jury, particularly if there That is unacceptable. are other circumstances that merit consideration, to I have been on my feet for nearly half an hour, and I —[Interruption.] The Minister says that that would be want to ensure that hon. Members have an opportunity incest, but if a sibling were involved and both parties to speak in the debate. If the right hon. Lady has more were adults, there would be no breach of the criminal law. to say, she will be able to do so if I finish my speech I have no idea whether the Minister has brothers or quickly. I hope that the hon. Member for Cambridge sisters, but it seems to me that if the Minister turned up will see the flaws in his amendment, in relation to and found that the person with whom she was currently restricting and disregarding sexual infidelity as a partial having a sexual relationship—her partner—was having defence. However, I look forward to listening to his a sexual relationship with a close relative, a court would argument for his amendment. be entitled to take that factor into account. In such circumstances, it would be an aggravating feature because Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Lady will have of the breach of trust. [Interruption.] I am sorry if the to wait a little longer, because I call Mr. Dominic Minister does not understand what I am saying, but I Grieve. think that I have made myself fairly clear. [Interruption.] Incest would be a different issue altogether. [Interruption.] Mr. Grieve: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The trouble is that the Minister did not listen to what I The first problem is that this is the first opportunity said. I was referring to circumstances in which someone that we have had to consider the matter on the Floor of is not only sexually unfaithful to his or her partner but the House. It is a scandal that our procedures are so sexually unfaithful within the context of that partner’s rotten, hopeless and archaic that, despite the Government’s wider family, including close relatives. That can happen so-called modernisation, we were deprived of giving the without any breach of the criminal law. [Interruption.] matter any scrutiny before it went to the other place. I fear that if the Minister has not understood that by From that, in my judgment, stems a great deal of the now, even an attempt by me to explain it behind the difficulty that we are experiencing. Speaker’s Chair will probably be unsuccessful. The second problem is that the Minister’s arguments Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I am sorry to interrupt this evening are utterly incoherent. Having practised in the hon. and learned Gentleman, but I feel that I ought the courts, I am the first to accept that the vast majority to intervene on behalf of the Official Reporters. The of the partial defences advanced to the wicked act of introduction of matters by Members from a sedentary killing another human being are largely untenable. Every position may make it much more difficult for them to day of the week in our courts, those arguments are produce a reliable account of our proceedings. trotted out and correctly rejected by juries. I have never been left in any doubt that juries are able to make up Mr. Grieve: The Minister said, from a sedentary position, their own minds as to what reasonably constitutes the that I was not referring to the defendant. Of course I partial defence that may reduce murder to manslaughter was referring to the defendant. The defendant is the on the grounds of provocation, and they have to do it person who has put the defence forward, and if the all the time. Minister has not understood that, it is beyond my For reasons that I find most peculiar, the Government comprehension. have decided that thousands of years of human history Let me move on. The point at issue is this: why and experience should be jettisoned for a piece of political should the jury be deprived of the opportunity to take correctness and proclamation: a declaratory statement that factor into account? All I can say to the Minister is 87 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 88

[Mr. Grieve] Commission has made plain, the coherence of its proposals has been entirely undermined by their action. That that it seems to me that the Government’s argument is constitutes a major problem in the way in which the entirely incoherent. They wish to issue a statement, but Government have approached the legislation. I think I I think that in doing so they risk grave injustice in a very am correct in saying that for those reasons the Law small minority of cases. Commission has indicated to the Government—and The second issue that the Minister has not been able the Minister has not answered my questions since then to address properly is how a judge will direct a jury in during the passage of the Bill—that it believes that the cases in which sexual infidelity is one component of the decision should be left to the jury. story, but other components are also involved. How, logically, will juries be able to disregard the sexual Mr. Winnick: Even if the hon. and learned Gentleman infidelity component? It beggars belief that the Minister does not accept the Government’s view, there are pretty thinks that that will be easy. good arguments on both sides, but given the violence When I intervened on the Minister, I gave an example that is perpetrated against women and given that far which I think is worth repeating. One of the good more women than men are murdered as a result of things that the Government have done in the Bill is to affairs and sexual infidelity, would it not be right—I enable people who have been battered and abused for speak as a layman, not a lawyer—for the House to many years to advance the partial defence, even in convey the message that sexual infidelity must not lead circumstances in which currently they have been prevented to a manslaughter charge, because it constitutes outright from doing so because they did not act in the immediacy murder? After all, we convey messages on all kinds of of the violence meted out to them. I welcome that—I issues. That would strengthen the opinion held by so think it is an important development—but, as I said to many of us that women should be protected against the Minister, there will be cases in which the final violence and, obviously, should be protected first and trigger is the discovery of sexual infidelity in that context. foremost against being murdered. It is beyond my understanding how a jury will be properly directed to put that issue out of their minds, Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I realise that the hon. but will be allowed to consider the other issues. Gentleman has some knowledge of these matters to contribute to the debate, but that was a very long Mr. Hogg: What my hon. and learned Friend has said intervention and we have a limited amount of time left. is, in fact, the considered view of the Law Commission, which eventually decided not to impose the formulae Mr. Grieve: I am grateful to the hon. Member for advocated by the Minister, but to leave it to the good Walsall, North (Mr. Winnick), but I wish to bring my sense of the judge to determine what could properly be speech to a close. left to the jury. I certainly do not wish to see circumstances in which the House provides an excuse for men to kill women Mr. Grieve: I am grateful to my right hon. and simply because they perceive that the women have been learned Friend. Listening to the Minister, I began to unfaithful to them—or, for that matter, vice versa: I do think that I must have completely misread the Law want to see women killing men. On that I am sure we Commission’s report—yet that is what she told us, and I can all agree. That, however, does not justify the remarkable must tell her that that does not raise my level of confidence step that the Government will take if they decide that that she actually knows what she is talking about. this is one of the components that can be entirely Claire Ward: Perhaps I can enlighten the hon. and disregarded by a jury when it comes to consider the plea learned Gentleman. Section 3.144 of the Law Commission’s of provocation and the partial defence. I simply do not report, on page 65, states: understand the logic. “Under our approach provocation should not be left to the History suggests—certainly, the cases that I have seen jury in such a case because we do not see how any reasonable jury, suggest—that although on occasion the defence may be properly directed, could conclude there had been gross provocation advanced as a mere cover for the violence of one party or that a person of ordinary tolerance and self-restraint might to another, sexual infidelity is sometimes an important have acted in the same way as the defendant.” and relevant component of the cocktail of events that Perhaps the hon. and learned Gentleman would like to combine to make a reasonable person snap. For those look at the report in a little more detail. reasons, I think it is very dangerous for this House to deprive juries of the opportunity to use their good sense Mr. Grieve: It is the Minister who is being selective. If to evaluate that evidence, but I am afraid that that is she turns the page, she will see the precise exceptions—in what the Government have chosen to try to do, and I do sections 3.146 to 3.150—which appear to me to undermine not understand the rationale behind that. I am very everything that she has said. Section 3.150 states: wary of legislating in a symbolic fashion. Juries are “Our approach has been to seek to set out broad principles, to entitled to consider these points and, in my experience, rely on the judge to exercise a judgement whether a reasonable if we allow them to do so, they will come up with the jury could regard the case as falling within those principles and right answers. For those reasons, the Lords amendment then to rely on the jury to exercise its good sense and fairness in deserves to be supported. applying them.” Further up the page, the report provides the precise examples that I cited to the Minister. 7.30 pm Let me return to a point that I made earlier. These are David Howarth: First, I agree with what the hon. and the Law Commission’s original proposals. Since then, learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) said the Government have cherry-picked those proposals. I about this being the first time that the Bill’s murder understand why they have done so, but, as the Law provisions have been considered on the Floor of the 89 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 90

House. It is extraordinary that the business was arranged think it will be very easy for a jury to disregard a judge’s in such a way that we could not discuss these and many direction in this regard if that jury happens to disagree other important issues about the law of murder. with it, because that direction will usually be merged I also associate myself with the hon. and learned with other issues that fall to be considered, and it will Gentleman’s remarks on what has happened in respect therefore be impossible to disentangle how the jury of the Law Commission. It was given a very narrow arrived at its decision. remit in the first place, in that it was not allowed to consider the question of a mandatory life sentence for David Howarth: One of the most important aspects murder; it then produced the best possible report it of the jury system is that the jury gives no reasons, so could in the circumstances—even though it might not we never know the answer to such questions. have been what it wanted to do had it been left to its I agree with the Government that there is no reason own devices—and then the Government cherry-picked in principle why the legislature should not set the criminal even that. I must say that it is hardly convincing for law. It is for Parliament to say what the law should be, Members on either side of the debate to cite what the and Parliament is perfectly entitled to say that certain Law Commission said in its reports, as I do not think excuses should not count. That in itself is not an they reflect in any way what it thinks. argument against the Government’s position. There are three different kinds of reason on offer in Members seem to have missed the point that this part this House and the other place in favour of dropping of the Bill already includes another substantive restriction the sexual infidelity provision the Government originally on what can count as a justifiable lack of control. It is proposed—clause 45(6)(c). I want to make it clear from contained in clause 44(4), which says that the loss of the start that I do not agree with the major reason given control defence does not apply where the defendant today, which was implicit in what the Lords said, which “acted in a considered desire for revenge.” is that somehow it is all right for men to use sexual infidelity as an excuse for murder. That is unacceptable. Revenge is therefore also excluded in the same way. However, two other reasons were on offer, and I shall Perhaps a jury will think otherwise, and consider that need to talk about them as well. there should have been such a defence in the circumstances before it. No one has yet complained that that provision Some Members have rightly said that it is a matter of should be removed simply because it interferes with the fact that there are cases when men especially—although rights of the jury. I am not entirely convinced by the this can happen the other way around—kill in a rage jury point, therefore. The Government are entitled to about sexual infidelity. The issue is not whether that is a propose changes in the substantive law, as long as they fact, but whether it is an excuse; it is a question of value, admit that in the end these questions of fact will, even not of fact. On the question of value, I am entirely with in their own version, be decided by a jury. the Government. I do not agree that that is a proper reason to offer in defence against a charge of murder, The third reason was more persuasive. It has been especially given that a charge of murder is one where alluded to here, but it was discussed at great length in there is a requisite intention to kill. The defendant is the other place. It takes us back to the evidence the Law therefore saying, “Yes, I did have that intent. I had all Commission gave to the Public Bill Committee. It is the the requisite intention to murder, so it was not that I did argument that the drafting of clause 45(6)(c) was not know what I was doing. I did know what I was defective—or, to borrow a word used by one commissioner, doing, but the action arose out of these circumstances.” “bizarre”. That clause said: That is an unacceptable excuse. “In determining whether a loss of self control had a qualifying trigger…the fact that a thing done or said constituted sexual I have slightly more sympathy with the second reason infidelity is to be disregarded.” raised both here and in the other place, which has to do with the jury. I think the jury does have a place in these There is an enormous number of things wrong with cases. I do not think the Government have excluded the that formulation. We do not have time to go through jury in the current version of the clause in question them all, but the first thing that is not at all clear is either, because they do not say that the judge shall tell whether it does the job the Government want it to. the jury how to decide any case where there is sexual What is to be disregarded? Is it sexual infidelity? No, the infidelity. They simply say that the sexual infidelity is to clause does not actually say that. It is merely the fact be disregarded. To whom is that clause addressed? The that something Government are not entirely clear about that. “done or said constituted sexual infidelity”. In other words, the infidelity itself is not to be disregarded, Mr. Hogg: Are the Government not saying that the but merely the mental process going through the head judge must direct the jury that it must disregard questions of somebody else, who comes to the conclusion that of sexual infidelity? something constitutes sexual infidelity—that is what is to be disregarded. It is not clear that that is what the David Howarth: Precisely, but there is still the judge Government wanted. Secondly, how can a thing that is saying those words to the jury, and it is for the jury to said constitute sexual infidelity? What words constitute decide what they mean in a particular case. Therefore, sexual infidelity? I cannot see how that works. even the Government have not succeeded in taking the Thirdly, what counts as sexual infidelity anyway? The case entirely away from the jury. What does “disregard” Minister’s examples show the problem is a difficult one mean? It is for the jury to make that assessment. to resolve. She put forward lots of examples of what she claimed was sexual infidelity, although it is not clear Mr. Grieve: There is a point that I should perhaps whether a jury would agree. What about unmarried have made. Ironically, I actually think the impact of couples? What about situations in which the couple these proposals on juries will probably be minimal. I disagrees about the degree of fidelity that is expected in 91 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 92

[David Howarth] Mr. Hogg: I think that my right hon. and hon. Friends wish to contribute to the debate, as perhaps do their relationship? This takes us back to the point the some Labour Members, so I shall be brief and compress law commissioners made, which is that presumably my remarks to something shorter than I originally had what the Government meant was something like sexual in mind. jealousy or envy, rather than infidelity as such. There The law of provocation has always been one of the are other ways of drafting the clause that get out of at most difficult aspects of the law of homicide, and over least some of these problems. I do not say that the the years it has given rise to a great deal of judicial amendment we offer solves all the problems, but I think comment and controversy. Broadly speaking, the it solves at least some of them. recommendations of the Law Commission, which are On Report, had we been allowed to debate it, we encompassed in this Bill, are to be welcomed, but there would have offered an even more comprehensive solution is one exception: the proposal to exclude from the that would have separated out the various problems in triggering event the conduct entitled “sexual infidelity”. this entirely unsatisfactory area of the law. One area in I am very much with my hon. and learned Friend the which the Bill fails is that it does not distinguish between Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve), who speaks loss of control through anger and cases of long-term from the Front Bench, in believing that this is essentially violence where people—especially women—fear repetition a matter for a jury. of the violence. Those are entirely different cases. The Perhaps the House will forgive me if I recount a case second sort of case is not really about loss of control at that I dealt with some three or four years ago—I was all, and should be subject to a separate defence. None of acting for the defendant, who was charged with murder. our proposals were discussed, and it is not possible at He was impotent, and he often tried to have sexual this stage to rewrite the whole of the murder provisions— relations with his wife and failed because of his impotence. although if that were possible, it should have been done. The wife then developed a long-standing sexual relationship It is possible, however, to offer a cut down version of with a lover, and that was known to my client. There what we offered on Report, by way of amendment (a). was then an occasion when my client tried to have That amendment deliberately ties the issue of sexual sexual intercourse with his wife, but because he was infidelity to a specific part of the trigger provisions, impotent he could not achieve that, at which point the namely that the circumstances should be wife began to abuse him, laugh at him and say that he “of an extremely grave character”. was not a patch on the lover. My client lost self-control and strangled his wife. It ties it down to how the Bill works, rather than being at large which is how the current drafting works. It Within that cocktail of events, the sexual infidelity of avoids the “constitute” problem by concentrating not the wife played a prominent part, but if we are to accept on the thought processes of the court, but on the the Government’s position, that sexual infidelity would actions and intentions, or reasons for action, of the have to be disregarded. I see absolutely no justice in defendant. We hope that it adds more comprehensibility providing in statute law that what was clearly, on the to the sexual infidelity language by referring to “sexual face of it, a relevant fact should be disregarded. My jealousy”, which is slightly clearer. client was convicted of murder—that is to say, the jury in that case determined that the conduct did not amount The Minister said that what was wrong with our to provocation within the meaning of the law, and he amendment was that there were circumstances in which was convicted of murder. I was very unhappy about the defendant might “perceive”—she used the language that verdict, but that is a wholly different matter. What of the amendment—that what was going on was sexual the case shows is that a jury is perfectly capable of infidelity whereas, in reality, it was not, or someone else addressing this issue and taking a broad view of what might think that it was not. That ignores, first, that this is just. is a jury question in the end—that cannot be got away The Minister has said that her views were in accord from; this is criminal law, so the jury decides this kind of with those of the Law Commission, but that is not so. issue. It also ignores the fact that the amendment starts What is correct is that the Law Commission said in its with the words report that male possessiveness and jealousy should “where D acted principally out of a desire”. not, of themselves, constitute good cause. It relied, The key phrase is “acted principally”. The jury decides perfectly understandably, on the judgment of Lord whether someone acted principally out of the various Hoffmann in the very important case of Smith (Morgan), matters referred to in the amendment. The Minister’s when he commented on the Australian case of Stingel. problem with the subjective nature of “perceived” does If the Minister were to read further on in the report, to not arise unless the jury thinks that that is the principal the following page—this is the point to which my hon. reason. No reasonable jury could possible believe that and learned Friend the Member for Beaconsfield was in the circumstances she put forward the principal drawing attention—she would see that it makes it clear reason for the action of the killer was sexual infidelity—even that where additional material comes into play, for the perception of it. example, taunting somebody about their impotence, it The objections that the Minister raised do not work. is right that consideration of that combination of events I simply add that whatever the problems with our should be left to the jury. drafting, they are as nothing compared with the problems in the Government’s drafting. Faced with a choice 7.45 pm between something slightly imperfect and something That is why the Law Commission, in its considered plainly bizarre, we should choose the slightly imperfect. view, held against the Minister’s position of excluding a Thus, if circumstances arise in which it is possible to particular category of event from the triggering events. vote on amendment (a), I request that we do so. If she would be good enough—I am sure she will—to 93 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 94 examine paragraph 3.168 on page 70, where its detailed as drunk as an owl and the woman involved just pushed recommendations for inclusion in statute law are set him and he fell, hit his head and died—since we can out, she will not find a recommendation that sexual infer from what she said that there was no intention to infidelity should be excluded from the triggering categories. commit either murder or grievous bodily harm, no She will not find it, because that was not the Law charge of murder would lie, still less be followed by Commission’s view. Its view—it happens to be my view, conviction. too—is that these are matters best left to the jury. Very often, the jury will decide that the conduct does not Miss Widdecombe: That is the whole point and I am amount to provocation, as in the case I told this House sorry that the Lord Chancellor somehow cannot understand about, but sometimes it will decide that it does. If we it. The whole point is that an intention to kill is not exclude that fact from the jury’s ability to take account formed. of the matter, we bring about a profound injustice. I believe that the views expressed in the other place are Dr. William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): Leaving wholly right and that this provision has been added— aside the example of drunkenness that has been given, probably at the suggestion of the Solicitor-General, as we are talking about sexual infidelity, is it not true who is no longer in her place—out of a desire to be that we are not talking about somebody who intended politically right. I do not think it just and this House to kill or who was out for revenge? We are talking about should not go along with it. someone who snapped and lost control, and a jury should therefore have all the facts. Miss Widdecombe: What I have been totally unconvinced about tonight is why this particular motivation and Miss Widdecombe: The hon. Gentleman sums it up provocation should uniquely be removed from a jury’s exactly. Somebody snaps and loses control, and whether discretion in deciding whether or not it was, in the or not a circumstance is sufficient to cause that snap circumstances rehearsed, an understandable ground for will be decided by the jury in every circumstance, no somebody losing control. The Minister has said that matter how trivial, other than sexual infidelity. I do not sexual infidelity cannot be, on its own, a cause for hear the case made for an exception for that single killing, and we would all agree with that. However, the category of provocation. whole point about loss of control is that the person does not make a rational assessment at the time of what he is Mr. Straw: I understand the right hon. Lady’s concerns doing and does not necessarily intend to kill, but is and this is an inherently difficult issue, but let me say provoked into making an attack. On that basis, just that it is nothing to do with political correctness. To say about every single reason for losing control would have that is to trivialise this difficult issue. She chose the to be taken away from a jury’s discretion. The Minister example—I did not—and in that case no charge of murder has not shown that there is some factor in this one cause would lie and, if there were a charge and that was the of loss of control that justifies its uniquely being taken totality of the evidence, it would not go to the jury. away from a jury’s discretion. Miss Widdecombe: So, if a woman taunts her husband It is no reason to kill somebody if they get drunk, but about her sexual activity with a third party and he, in let us consider a situation where a man comes home his fury, moves towards her and shoves her hard and she night after night as drunk as an owl. If his wife says to falls over, hits her head and dies, that is not a provocation him “Don’t do it again” and then moves towards him, because, uniquely, the jury will be told that it cannot pushes him in her fury at his being drunk as an owl and take sexual infidelity into account. It is nonsense. I shall he falls over, hits his head and dies, she will say, “Of not go on repeating the same point, because it has course it was not a good enough reason, but I lost repeatedly failed to be answered and I am aware that we control.” Why somebody—it could be a man or a would quite like to vote on the amendment. woman; it does not have only to be a man—coming home and finding his spouse of x years in bed with Claire Ward: The hon. and learned Member for somebody else shall not trigger a similar loss of control Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) has suggested that this is is beyond me. essentially about the Government trying to remove a The fact is that one cannot specify what is and is not responsibility from juries simply because juries would a reasonable ground for loss of control for the simple find it too difficult to deal with and because it is too reason that nothing ever seems reasonable when one difficult for judges to direct juries. I disagree that judges looks at it from the point of view of somebody who is will not be able to direct juries. Judges are perfectly used totally in control and rational. It is for a jury to decide to directing juries about what they can and cannot the following question: was the provocation in this consider—they do it every day in court. It is not beyond incident—whatever that incident may be—sufficient to the ability of judges to tell juries that sexual infidelity cause that person, on the spur of that moment, to kill in cannot be a qualifying trigger for a loss of self-control. that way? That is entirely a matter for the jury to decide. If something else is relied on as the qualifying trigger, The hon. Lady has not made any case tonight for the any sexual infidelity that forms part of the background argument that, quite uniquely, the one circumstance in can be considered but it cannot be the trigger. That is which the jury cannot make that assessment should be essentially what the legislation seeks to do—to stop the sexual infidelity. act of sexual infidelity being the trigger that enables people to say that these are extremely serious and grave Mr. Straw: I was racking my brains on this, and got a circumstances. bit of approval from those on the Liberal Democrat Benches who are better versed on this than I am. I think Mr. Grieve: My reading of clause 45(6)(c) does not that the right hon. Lady would find that in such match the comment that the Minister has just made circumstances—if, in her delightful phrase, a man was about being able to consider it in the background as 95 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 96

[Mr. Grieve] 8pm Claire Ward: The right hon. and learned Gentleman long as there are other factors. There is a clear contradiction and I are clearly not going to agree on the issue, and between the wording of subsection (6)(c) and her intention. unfortunately the right hon. Member for Maidstone That is why I urge her to be so cautious about the and The Weald (Miss Widdecombe) and I are not going clause, which I think has been very poorly thought to agree either—whether it is on sets of circumstances, through. sexual infidelity or drunken owls. Claire Ward: The partial defence for loss of control In the remaining time, I want to deal with some of exists on the basis that there will be certain sets of the other points. The hon. Member for Cambridge triggers—things that take place that cause the loss of referred to the issue of whether sexual infidelity is a control. Sexual infidelity is being disregarded as an thing done, a thing said or both. We have used the acceptable trigger that can play into the loss of self-control. words “done” or “said” in the provision, to the effect We believe that it is acceptable to do that precisely that the fact that a thing done or said constituted sexual because we do not think that sexual infidelity, in itself, infidelity is to be disregarded. By doing so, we are should be considered an acceptable reason for somebody making it clear that the subsection relates back to the to have killed their partner, husband, wife or whomever earlier subsection, which refers to the circumstances might involve. The background “things done or said…which…constituted circumstances of an information might well form part of the case, but sexual extremely grave character, and caused”— infidelity will not be the trigger for allowing the defence the defendant— of that partial loss of control. “to have a justifiable sense of being seriously wronged.” Mr. Grieve: I am grateful to the Minister for giving Although it might be difficult to understand how “things way. At the risk of taking up more of her time, I point said” would of themselves amount to sexual infidelity—I out that she knows that clause 44(1) already does not understand the point that the hon. Member for Cambridge apply if is making—if we were to remove that term we could leave a loophole that might be exploited in the future. “in doing or being a party to the killing” For clarity, and to ensure that the provision is seamless, somebody the provision refers to the words in the original “acted in a considered desire for revenge.” subsection—“things said or done.” That is a very important clause that I entirely agree with, but the fact that it is there means that the examples David Howarth: That is precisely why it is important she has been giving about killing on the ground of that if there is to be a subsection 6(c), it refers to 4(a), as sexual infidelity based on a feeling of vengeance could my amendment does, or to 4(b) rather than to the first not come into the picture anyway. That is why it is such words in subsection (4) because those words cannot nonsense to include this provision, and why it will be possibly apply in terms to sexual infidelity. impossible for a judge and jury to disentangle the facts when they are all mixed up together. Claire Ward: That is why we are ensuring that there is seamlessness between the subsections with the words Claire Ward: I completely disagree with the hon. and “things said or done”. That will ensure that sexual learned Gentleman. The judge and indeed juries are infidelity cannot be relied on in those circumstances. quite capable of considering the information that is The hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield seemed available to them as background information. We are to suggest that there is no support for the amendment, saying that it is completely unacceptable that sexual beyond some form of political correctness. I have to tell infidelity in itself should be used as the trigger to allow him that is quite contrary to the reality of the situation. the defence of loss of self-control to come into play. We have received more than 40 representations, from That is essentially what this is about, and I am quite individuals and groups, asking the Government to seek surprised that the right hon. and learned Member for to overturn the vote taken in the other place. Those Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hogg) feels that it organisations are significant and varied. They include is appropriate—indeed, this featured in the case he the Women’s National Commission, Amnesty International, discussed—for somebody who has committed sexual the Eaves group, Justice for Women, violence intervention infidelity to be told by their killer, or for it to be programmes and a range of other rape crisis organisations determined in a court case by their killer, that that is and other groups that support women who have been essentially just cause. “You have committed sexual infidelity raped. and that is just cause for me to commit murder,” is not an acceptable claim. All the representations we have received have stated clearly that in the killing of a wife or girlfriend by a Mr. Hogg: That is not what I was saying. I was saying partner, actual or suspected infidelity has often been that when there is a cocktail of events—in the case I used in the past to reduce murder to manslaughter. The cited, they included the sexual infidelity that formed the law should be clear that that is no longer acceptable. background, together with abuse and taunting of the The penalty for infidelity should not be death, and defendant—the combination is capable of amounting partners who believe it is their right to kill should to an appropriate trigger. Incidentally, that is also the always go on trial for murder. In this instance, our view of the Law Commission, and when it took that concern is that men who kill women should not be able question out to sample—I think the Minister will find it to plead the traditional argument that she was unfaithful. on page 66 of the report, but I could be wrong—that was also the view of the focus groups to which the David Howarth claimed to move the closure (Standing question was addressed. Order No. 36). 97 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 98

Question put forthwith, That the Question be now Hendrick, Mr. Mark Meacher, rh Mr. Michael put. Hepburn, Mr. Stephen Meale, Mr. Alan Hesford, Stephen Merron, Gillian Question agreed to. Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia Michael, rh Alun Question put accordingly, That this House disagrees Heyes, David Miller, Andrew with Lords amendment 55. Hill, rh Keith Mitchell, Mr. Austin Hillier, Meg Moffatt, Laura The House divided: Ayes 299, Noes 145. Hodge, rh Margaret Mole, Chris Division No. 242] [8.3 pm Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Hood, Mr. Jim Morden, Jessica AYES Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Morgan, Julie Hope, Phil Morley, rh Mr. Elliot Abbott, Ms Diane Cousins, Jim Hopkins, Kelvin Mudie, Mr. George Ainger, Nick Crausby, Mr. David Howarth, rh Mr. George Mullin, Mr. Chris Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Creagh, Mary Howells, rh Dr. Kim Munn, Meg Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Cruddas, Jon Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay Murphy, Mr. Denis Allen, Mr. Graham Cryer, Mrs. Ann Humble, Mrs. Joan Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Anderson, Mr. David Cummings, John Hutton, rh Mr. John Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Anderson, Janet Cunningham, Mr. Jim Iddon, Dr. Brian Naysmith, Dr. Doug Armstrong, rh Hilary Cunningham, Tony Illsley, Mr. Eric Norris, Dan Atkins, Charlotte Curtis-Thomas, Mrs. Claire Ingram, rh Mr. Adam O’Hara, Mr. Edward Austin, Mr. Ian David, Mr. Wayne Irranca-Davies, Huw Olner, Mr. Bill Austin, John Davies, Mr. Quentin Jackson, Glenda Osborne, Sandra Baird, Vera Dean, Mrs. Janet James, Mrs. Siân C. Owen, Albert Balls, rh Ed Denham, rh Mr. John Jenkins, Mr. Brian Palmer, Dr. Nick Banks, Gordon Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Johnson, rh Alan Pearson, Ian Barlow, Ms Celia Dismore, Mr. Andrew Johnson, Ms Diana R. Plaskitt, Mr. James Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Dobbin, Jim Jones, Helen Pope, Mr. Greg Battle, rh John Dobson, rh Frank Jones, Mr. Kevan Prentice, Bridget Bayley, Hugh Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. Jones, Lynne Prentice, Mr. Gordon Beckett, rh Margaret Doran, Mr. Frank Jowell, rh Tessa Prescott, rh Mr. John Begg, Miss Anne Drew, Mr. David Joyce, Mr. Eric Primarolo, rh Dawn Bell, Sir Stuart Durkan, Mark Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Prosser, Gwyn Benn, rh Hilary Eagle, Angela Keeble, Ms Sally Purchase, Mr. Ken Benton, Mr. Joe Eagle, Maria Keeley, Barbara Purnell, rh James Berry, Roger Ellman, Mrs. Louise Keen, Alan Rammell, Bill Betts, Mr. Clive Engel, Natascha Kemp, Mr. Fraser Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Blackman, Liz Ennis, Jeff Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Reed, Mr. Andy Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta Etherington, Bill Kidney, Mr. David Reed, Mr. Jamie Blears, rh Hazel Farrelly, Paul Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Reid, rh John Blizzard, Mr. Bob Fisher, Mark Knight, rh Jim Riordan, Mrs. Linda Borrow, Mr. David S. Fitzpatrick, Jim Kumar, Dr. Ashok Robertson, John Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Flello, Mr. Robert Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Brennan, Kevin Flint, rh Caroline Lammy, rh Mr. David Rooney, Mr. Terry Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Flynn, Paul Laxton, Mr. Bob Roy, Lindsay Brown, Mr. Russell Follett, Barbara Lepper, David Ruane, Chris Bryant, Chris Foster, Mr. Michael Levitt, Tom Ruddock, Joan Buck, Ms Karen (Worcester) Lewis, Mr. Ivan Russell, Christine Burden, Richard Foster, Michael Jabez Linton, Martin Ryan, rh Joan Burnham, rh Andy (Hastings and Rye) Lloyd, Tony Salter, Martin Butler, Ms Dawn Francis, Dr. Hywel Love, Mr. Andrew Seabeck, Alison Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Gapes, Mike Lucas, Ian Sharma, Mr. Virendra Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Gardiner, Barry Mackinlay, Andrew Shaw, Jonathan Cairns, David George, rh Mr. Bruce MacShane, rh Mr. Denis Sheerman, Mr. Barry Campbell, Mr. Alan Gerrard, Mr. Neil Mactaggart, Fiona Sheridan, Jim Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Gilroy, Linda Malik, Mr. Shahid Simon, Mr. Siôn Caton, Mr. Martin Godsiff, Mr. Roger Mallaber, Judy Singh, Mr. Marsha Cawsey, Mr. Ian Goggins, rh Paul Mann, John Skinner, Mr. Dennis Challen, Colin Goodman, Helen Marris, Rob Slaughter, Mr. Andy Chapman, Ben Griffith, Nia Marsden, Mr. Gordon Clapham, Mr. Michael Griffiths, Nigel Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Clark, Ms Katy Grogan, Mr. John McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Smith, Ms Angela C. Clark, Paul Gwynne, Andrew McCabe, Steve (Sheffield, Hillsborough) Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Hain, rh Mr. Peter McCafferty, Chris Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon) Clarke,rhMr.Tom Hall, Mr. Mike McCarthy, Kerry Smith, Geraldine Clelland, Mr. David Hall, Patrick McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Smith, rh Jacqui Clwyd, rh Ann Hamilton, Mr. David McDonagh, Siobhain Snelgrove, Anne Coaker, Mr. Vernon Hancock, Mr. Mike McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Southworth, Helen Coffey, Ann Hanson, rh Mr. David McFall, rh John Spellar, rh Mr. John Connarty, Michael Harman, rh Ms Harriet McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Spink, Bob Cooper, Rosie Havard, Mr. Dai McKechin, Ann Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Cooper, rh Yvette Healey, rh John McKenna, Rosemary Stewart, Ian Corbyn, Jeremy Henderson, Mr. Doug McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Stoate, Dr. Howard 99 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 100

Straw, rh Mr. Jack Ward, Claire Pelling, Mr. Andrew Timpson, Mr. Edward Stringer, Graham Watson, Mr. Tom Penning, Mike Turner, Mr. Andrew Stuart, Ms Gisela Watts, Mr. Dave Penrose, John Tyrie, Mr. Andrew Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Whitehead, Dr. Alan Price, Adam Vaizey, Mr. Edward Tami, Mark Wicks, rh Malcolm Prisk, Mr. Mark Vara, Mr. Shailesh Taylor, Ms Dari Williams, rh Mr. Alan Pritchard, Mark Viggers, Sir Peter Taylor, David Williams, Mrs. Betty Randall, Mr. John Walker, Mr. Charles Thomas, Mr. Gareth Wills, rh Mr. Michael Redwood, rh Mr. John Wallace, Mr. Ben Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Wilson, Phil Robertson, Hugh Walter, Mr. Robert Todd, Mr. Mark Winnick, Mr. David Robertson, Mr. Laurence Waterson, Mr. Nigel Touhig, rh Mr. Don Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Rosindell, Andrew Watkinson, Angela Trickett, Jon Woolas, Mr. Phil Selous, Andrew Whittingdale, Mr. John Truswell, Mr. Paul Wright, David Simmonds, Mark Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann Simpson, Mr. Keith Wiggin, Bill Turner, Dr. Desmond Wright, Dr. Tony Turner, Mr. Neil Smith, Chloe Williams, Hywel Wyatt, Derek Twigg, Derek Soames, Mr. Nicholas Wilshire, Mr. David Younger-Ross, Richard Ussher, Kitty Spicer, Sir Michael Wilson, Mr. Rob Vis, Dr. Rudi Tellers for the Ayes: Stanley, rh Sir John Winterton, Ann Walley, Joan Lyn Brown and Steen, Mr. Anthony Winterton, Sir Nicholas Waltho, Lynda Mr. John Heppell Streeter, Mr. Gary Wright, Jeremy Stuart, Mr. Graham Yeo, Mr. Tim NOES Swayne, Mr. Desmond Young, rh Sir George Swire, Mr. Hugo Younger-Ross, Richard Afriyie, Adam Hammond, Mr. Philip Syms, Mr. Robert Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Hammond, Stephen Tellers for the Noes: Taylor, Mr. Ian Amess, Mr. David Hancock, Mr. Mike Mr. John Baron and Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Hands, Mr. Greg Taylor, Dr. Richard Mr. Philip Dunne Atkinson, Mr. Peter Harper, Mr. Mark Baldry, Tony Hayes, Mr. John Question accordingly agreed to. Bellingham, Mr. Henry Heald, Mr. Oliver Lords amendment 55 disagreed to. Benyon, Mr. Richard Heathcoat-Amory, rh Blunt, Mr. Crispin Mr. David Bone, Mr. Peter Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas Bottomley, Peter Hollobone, Mr. Philip Clause 61 Brazier, Mr. Julian Holloway, Mr. Adam Brokenshire, James Horam, Mr. John HATRED AGAINST PERSONS ON GROUNDS OF SEXUAL Browning, Angela Howard, rh Mr. Michael ORIENTATION Burns, Mr. Simon Howarth, Mr. Gerald Burrowes, Mr. David Howell, John Claire Ward: I beg to move, That this House disagrees Burt, Alistair Hurd, Mr. Nick with Lords amendment 59. Butterfill, Sir John Jack, rh Mr. Michael Cable, Dr. Vincent Jackson, Mr. Stewart Carswell, Mr. Douglas Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): With this it Chope, Mr. Christopher Kawczynski, Daniel will be convenient to discuss the following: Lords Clappison, Mr. James Key, Robert amendment 119, and Government motion to disagree. Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Knight, rh Mr. Greg Lords amendment 121, and Government motion to Crabb, Mr. Stephen Laing, Mrs. Eleanor disagree. Curry, rh Mr. David Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Lords amendment 236, and Government motion to Davies, Mr. Dai Lansley, Mr. Andrew Davies, David T.C. Leigh, Mr. Edward disagree. (Monmouth) Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver Lords amendment 239, and Government motion to Davies, Philip Lewis, Dr. Julian disagree. Davis, rh David Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Lidington, Mr. David Claire Ward: In inviting the House to reject the Lords Duddridge, James Lilley, rh Mr. Peter amendments, we are seeking to complete unfinished Ellwood, Mr. Tobias Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn business from the last Session. The House will recall Evans, Mr. Nigel Loughton, Tim that we introduced offences of inciting hatred on grounds Evennett, Mr. David Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew of sexual orientation in the Criminal Justice and Fabricant, Michael Maclean, rh David Immigration Bill. During its passage, the other place Field, Mr. Mark Main, Anne passed an amendment that inserted what is now Fraser, Christopher Malins, Mr. Humfrey section 29JA into the Public Order Act 1986. That Garnier, Mr. Edward Maples, Mr. John section contains a so-called freedom of speech saving Gauke, Mr. David McCrea, Dr. William Gibb, Mr. Nick McIntosh, Miss Anne “for the avoidance of doubt”. Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Regrettably, for want of time, we were unable to Goodman, Mr. Paul Mercer, Patrick overturn the Lords amendment, but the Minister of Gray, Mr. James Miller, Mrs. Maria State, Ministry of Justice, my hon. Friend the Member Green, Damian Milton, Anne for Liverpool, Garston (Maria Eagle) made it clear that Greenway, Mr. John Moss, Mr. Malcolm when the opportunity arose, we would return to the Grieve, Mr. Dominic Neill, Robert issue. To this end, a clause in this Bill sought to repeal Gummer, rh Mr. John Newmark, Mr. Brooks section 29JA of the 1986 Act. The House approved that Hague, rh Mr. William O’Brien, Mr. Stephen clause by a majority of 152 on Report in March. That 101 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 102 was the third occasion on which the House has made it of the offence itself, and we do not wish to see that. If clear, by a substantial margin—202 on 6 May 2008—that he accepts that bigotry and hatred on the ground of there was no need for the freedom of speech saving sexual orientation is completely unacceptable, he should provision. see that we will do nothing to water down that offence. The other place has seen fit to strike out the clause, The offence already has an incredibly high threshold. thereby seeking to retain the unnecessary, unwanted and potentially harmful saving provision. We should Dr. (Oxford, West and Abingdon) (LD): send a clear message back to the other place that it is ill I am grateful for what the Minister says, and I hope that conceived, ill judged and ill advised. Furthermore, that she will join me in continuing to point to those who has been the settled will of the elected House on three raise valid concerns about the Norfolk and Lancashire occasions to date. cases that the problem is the police’s treatment of section 5 of the 1986 Act, which contains an “insulting” provision. Mr. Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): Let there Will she say anything more about her Department’s be no mistake: people who stir up violence and hatred undertaking to review whether she would accept, in against homosexuals are completely wrong. But there is some later legislation now, the amendment that I and nothing in the Waddington amendment that does that. my colleagues proposed to remove “insulting” from the All the Waddington amendment allows is a offence and raise the threshold in that legislation? It “discussion or criticism of sexual conduct or practices or the would deal with all the mischief in the examples that urging of persons to refrain from or modify such conduct”. other hon. Members have given—rightly in that context, although not in this one. Lord Waddington is not trying to stir up hatred. He just wants free speech. If people want to say that Roman Catholicism is wrong, let them. That is free speech, and Claire Ward: I wish to ensure that we deal with the the House should be very careful when it attacks free legislation before us. What is before us is an opportunity speech. to make sure that the will of this elected House, which has had an opportunity on three occasions to state that Claire Ward: The House is not attacking free speech. it does not believe that this so-called freedom of expression It is clear that people retain their right to freedom of section is a necessary or wise addition to our legislation. speech. The clause is unnecessary because the threshold We have got the balance right already. of the offence is already set incredibly high. We introduced We looked at existing models in legislation to decide these new offences in the Criminal Justice and Immigration which way we wished to proceed. The first model is used Act 2008 to protect a group in our society who are at for race hate offences. In the case of racial hatred, the times the victims of bigotry and hatred. We considered 1986 Act criminalises threatening, abusive or insulting carefully how to formulate the offences, recognising the words or behaviour that are intended or likely to stir up particular sensitivities about offences that impact on racial hatred—a low threshold. In contrast, the second freedom of speech. We believe that we have got the model, provided by the religious hatred offences, sets a balance right without the so-called freedom of expression much higher threshold. In that case, an offence is committed saving provision. In introducing those new offences to only when threatening words or behaviour are used protect victims of that bigotry and hatred, we looked with the intention of stirring up hatred. It is not enough very carefully before we proceeded. that the words or behaviour are abusive, insulting or merely likely to stir up hatred. We have adopted that Mr. Grieve: I have listened carefully to the Minister, model for the offences of stirring up hatred on the and the argument that everything is all right is one to ground of sexual orientation. which the House must pay considerable attention. She will be aware that only two weeks ago, under existing Mr. Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con): The Minister law, a case in gave substantial cause for concern. refers to the religious hatred provision, but she will be The right of freedom of expression—the right of people aware that it contained a further protection, which she to express views that might appear unpalatable and has not mentioned. That is what we seek in the legislation with which one might disagree—is being visited not before us—the same protection as that which is in the with the reply, “I disagree with you,” but with a visit religious hatred provision. from the police. That must be a subject of concern for the Minister, and the fact that it has happened only Claire Ward: And the hon. Gentleman will recall that recently, following the case in Lancashire some years the Government did not approve the extent of the ago, suggests that there is still a real problem. Individuals Lords amendment on that occasion, either. are finding that they cannot express themselves with views that are certainly not about hatred, but about We have set a very high threshold for the offences, freedom of expression and conscience. which can be prosecuted only with the consent of the Attorney-General. The reason why the so-called freedom Claire Ward: There is nothing to prevent freedom of of expression section is not required is that the Attorney- expression, and many of the incidents to which the hon. General already has a duty under the Human Rights and learned Gentleman refers, as he well knows, fall Act 1998 to consider rights in the European convention under the Public Order Act 1986, in which there is a on human rights. The provision does not need to be in much lower threshold. Therefore, it is not the basis of the Bill, and therefore we must question why those the offence under discussion, which involves a high Lords who supported the amendment wanted it made threshold and is exactly the reason why the so-called to the Bill. Such freedom of expression already exists. freedom of speech section is not necessary. It is simply unnecessary and has the potential to remove the impact Miss Widdecombe: It is for the avoidance of doubt. 103 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 104

Claire Ward: The right hon. Lady says that it is for Miss Widdecombe: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for the avoidance of doubt, but I am quite sure that in her customary grace in giving way. I have said in this other circumstances, perhaps she, and certainly many of House that I do not believe that homosexual couples her right hon. and hon. Friends, would say that provisions should adopt children. No police appeared on my doorstep. should not be added to Bills—creating more legislation— When a children’s author gave exactly the same opinion simply for the avoidance of doubt. Indeed, I am well on a radio programme—under questioning; they did aware that they have criticised it when they have believed not just volunteer it—the police got involved. that it has happened in the past; yet, on this occasion, they think it acceptable to make an amendment that is simply not needed. Even more than that, it has the 8.30 pm potential to do harm. It may well result in the offence Claire Ward: The right hon. Lady is not entitled to not being prosecuted, because somebody believes that express her views on matters only because she is a they can rely on the provision. I hope that that is not Member of this House and entitled to parliamentary the case. privilege. Many of the incidents to which she refers come under the Public Order Act 1986, and therefore David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): the threshold is considerably lower than in the Bill. The It is true that the section would not change the threshold high threshold in the Bill relates only to threatening of the offence, but that is not at all the same as saying words and behaviour intended to stir up hatred. People that it either has no effect or would not be useful. are perfectly entitled to express their views about Would it not at the very least provide a signpost to homosexuality. Some will find those views distasteful, police and prosecutors, saying that they should lay off offensive or even insulting, but there is nothing in these innocent people who merely discuss or criticise sexual offences that prevents that expression of opinion. Those conduct? That is what we see in case after case. That is uttering such threatening words or exhibiting such the purpose of the section and why we should retain it, behaviour intended to stir up hatred should not have and later on I shall certainly seek to catch your eye, the cloak of a so-called freedom of expression clause Mr. Deputy Speaker, to make those points in more to protect them. Frankly, I am surprised that so many detail. hon. Gentlemen on the Opposition Benches—and indeed the right hon. Member for Maidstone and The Claire Ward: The legislation before us is not the Weald, who is sitting there on her own—think that appropriate place in which to put the police guidance to people should be entitled to protection where they have which my hon. Friend refers. Indeed, legislation is not used threatening words that are intended to stir up necessarily the place for it. Guidance may well be the hatred. place to put it, and we will seek in due course to look at the guidance. The right hon. Lady said earlier from a Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): The public record sedentary position that the section purports to be for speaks for itself on my position on protecting and the avoidance of doubt, but in effect it creates doubt standing up for the rights of homosexuals. What does where there should be none. In that way, we believe that the Minister think would lead to a vicar, for example, or it is not simply unnecessary, but potentially damaging perhaps an imam in the constituency of the Lord to the effectiveness of the offence itself. Chancellor, falling foul of the legislation that she has put before the House? People with strongly held religious or moral beliefs must of course be free to express their views. [Interruption.] Claire Ward: In order to fall foul of the Bill, the The right hon. Lady says that she does not have the person’s words would have to be threatening and their right to express her strongly held religious or moral behaviour intended to stir up hatred. If they did intend beliefs. I contend that she certainly does, but not where to stir up hatred, I believe, and the Government believe, it breaches the level of the offence, which has an incredibly that they should be guilty of the offence—that the high threshold. threshold should have been reached. If the hon. Gentleman does not believe that, he is saying that it is acceptable Miss Widdecombe: I probably do have the right, and I for people to stir up hatred on the ground of sexual regularly use this place to exercise it. But those who do orientation and that that is freedom of speech. not enjoy parliamentary privilege, and, instead, express the same views on the radio, in letters to their council Mark Pritchard: I am grateful to the Minister for and in the literature that they give out, find that they do giving way; she is being very gracious. In order to have not have that right. clarity, does she think that the Old Testament or the New Testament, the Koran or the Hadith, or the Torah, Claire Ward: I am afraid that I do not agree with the for example, would fall foul of this legislation? right hon. Lady. One does not need parliamentary privilege to express one’s views. Freedom of expression Claire Ward: I think that the hon. Gentleman is is permitted, allowed and encouraged, the difference trying to find out whether I wish to have a religious and being when it is intended to incite hatred. There will be philosophical debate on the holy books. As a Roman people who hold a religious or moral belief and have Catholic, I can make reference to only one book. The objections to homosexuality or to certain sexual practices. reality is that if somebody uses the words that may be They are perfectly entitled to hold those opinions, and contained in a religious book with a clear intention to nothing in the Bill changes that; rather, it ensures that at stir up hatred, they will fall foul of this offence. Someone the point where their words are threatening and their may simply express a view that they do not agree with behaviour is intended to stir up hatred, the offence homosexuality or with certain sexual practices—they will bite. can have freedom of speech and expression—but that is 105 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 106 entirely different from taking it to a level where they The Minister has studiously avoided debating why intend to be threatening and to stir up hatred on the the offence in question cannot be successfully prosecuted ground of that sexual orientation. under Lord Waddington’s amendment, because she has no case to make about that. If there were a problem, the Dr. McCrea: Does the Minister realise that, if the Bill Government could at least have allowed the offence to is passed, it will become more and more difficult in this be tested. If it had then turned out that it was causing United Kingdom for a preacher to express biblical problems when it got to court, they would have had a standards? Someone could be perceived to be stirring greater justification for asking the House to reconsider up hatred if they were simply quoting the Scriptures the matter. and preaching from God’s precious word. That is a disgraceful situation. Mr. Leigh: Is it not interesting that the Minister never actually discussed Lord Waddington’s amendment? We Claire Ward: I am afraid the hon. Gentleman is not all agree that it is wrong to threaten or stir up hatred, correct. A person would have to intend their words to but Lord Waddington’s amendment said simply: be threatening and stir up hatred. That would have to be “For the avoidance of doubt, the discussion or criticism of their intention, not the perception. Nothing in the Bill sexual conduct or practices or the urging of persons to refrain will prevent a preacher or follower of any religion from from or modify such conduct or practices shall not be taken of expressing their views, provided that they are not intending itself to be threatening or intended to stir up hatred.” to stir up hatred. That is quite different. That is all that we are saying—simply discussing the I want to make it absolutely clear that those who hold matter is not threatening behaviour or worse— views different from mine or those of other Members, [Interruption.] and who do not believe that homosexuality is acceptable and have objections to certain sexual practices, are Mr. Grieve: I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. I entitled to continue to hold and express them. They heard from a sedentary position the hon. Member for may not use threatening words and intend to stir up Oxford, West and Abingdon (Dr. Harris) saying, “Not hatred on the ground of sexual orientation, but that is if it is threatening,” but the words “of itself” make it quite different from the reality of what goes on in quite plain that if it were threatening language in that churches, mosques and other religious places up and context, the freedom of speech defence would not be down the country. The hon. Gentleman, and indeed open to the individual concerned. Therefore, his anxiety many Opposition Members, may well be doing a disservice is misplaced. to many people of strong religious and moral views on I say this to the hon. Gentleman, seeing as he is such matters who hold different views but do not intend participating in this debate: we have in the past worked to stir up hatred. It is a really high-level offence. together on similar issues regarding religious hatred. One comment that he often made then—indeed, I even Mr. Gerald Howarth: Will the Minister give way? remember him conceding in the context of this offence—was that such offences, which the House creates, can have Claire Ward: I am going to proceed, and then the a chilling effect on freedom of speech. He may have hon. Gentleman will have a better opportunity to express been the first person to use the words “chilling effect” in his views. the House. I certainly remember them coming first from him. If we had set the bar for the offence too low or had not afforded sufficient protection for freedom of speech, The fact of the matter is that there is plenty of I am quite sure that the Joint Committee on Human evidence, unfortunately, in the context of the Public Rights and the Equality and Human Rights Commission Order Act 1986, that the offence is having a chilling would have been the first to say so. Both bodies have effect. Its interpretation, based upon a form of political carefully examined the offence and separately concluded correctness handed down by what is perceived to be the that there is sufficient protection for freedom of speech line taken by those in authority, is leading to abuse in a without the need for section 29JA of the 1986 Act. number of circumstances by the police who threaten individuals with prosecution unless they desist from We should send a clear and unequivocal message to expressing perfectly legitimate views. That causes me the other place. It made a wrong call in the last Session great concern, but I am glad to say that that has in no in passing the so-called freedom of expression saving case led to prosecution and that in one case it led to the provision. It has made the wrong call again this Session police subsequently providing an apology for their conduct. in seeking to block its repeal. On three occasions, this Nevertheless, we must bear that point in mind, because elected House has rejected the need for it, and I invite it the Government intend—I do not think the Minister to do so again by rejecting the Lords amendment. disagrees with this—the offence to be far more serious, although I accept that the test for it may be different, as Mr. Grieve: We are certainly revisiting an old topic. I she said. rather disagree with the Minister in her view about the behaviour in the other place the last time this matter Dr. Evan Harris: If I catch Mr. Deputy Speaker’s eye, came up for consideration. On the face of it, whatever I will respond and show how much the hon. and learned the Government may have felt about the matter, they Gentleman and I agree on various points. There has, in were prepared to accept the Lords amendment on fact, been a prosecution along the lines that he hoped that occasion. One can only conclude that, in their there would not be. However, how can the words willingness to do so, they made the evaluation that Lord Waddington’s amendment was innocuous. In my “discussion or criticism of sexual conduct”— judgment, that is exactly what it was. and so on— 107 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 108

[Dr. Evan Harris] operate to do what she claimed it would. The saving clause, given its plain English meaning, cannot achieve “shall not be taken of itself to be threatening or intended to stir the mischief that the Minister claims. It is noteworthy up hatred” that when this matter was considered in the other place, avoid doubt if what is said in that context is threatening it was supported by a large number of lawyers, who and intends to stir up hatred? It may not be a problem would therefore have some understanding of how this to his forensic mind, but most people out there would clause would be interpreted in the courts. see it as totally inconsistent. It is a get-out: as long as a person is threatening and intentionally threatening while Mr. Gerald Howarth: In the absence of this protection discussing sexual conduct, they are okay, but when they that my hon. and learned Friend and I both support, is discuss other things, they are not. it not the case that various examples have been cited by my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and Mr. Grieve: The way I read the saving clause that The Weald (Miss Widdecombe) and, I might add, Lord Waddington drafted— Sir Iqbal Sacranie and the Bishop of Chester, both of whose collars were felt by the police? The public feel Dr. Harris: Only the way you read it. intimidated, and there is nothing in the Government’s line that would remove that sense of intimidation. The Mr. Grieve: I must say, it is not only the way I read it, Government are resisting the one, modest amendment but any sensible person who gives the words their plain that would reassure the public. We do not need that English meaning must come to the same conclusion. reassurance because we are Members of Parliament Clearly, if I make an expression which “of itself”amounts and we can fight for ourselves, but many of my constituents to no more than a reasoned criticism, it cannot be feel very threatened that if they put a foot out of line, threatening, but it is perfectly plain from Lord Waddington’s they will lose their jobs. amendment—indeed, I have not heard the Government challenge this or suggest otherwise—that if the words Mr. Grieve: I agree with my hon. Friend. The other constituted threats, anyone standing up in court and factor that is worth bearing in mind is that as this saying, “Well, I was justified in making the threat debate has gone on—the Minister cannot escape this—more because it was just part of a criticism of somebody else’s people have come forward to express their concerns way of life or habits,” would not get off the hook. I about this proposal. They include, in many cases, people entirely concur that it would be grossly improper if they who may have different sexual orientations from the did. For those reasons, Lord Waddington’s amendment majority, but think that the provision is entirely unnecessary provides considerable comfort to those who happen to to provide them with protection. They have also expressed have to strong views about how people should conduct the view that the saving clause introduced by Lord themselves, and it does nothing to diminish the ability Waddington is a modest and moderate way to provide to prosecute this offence. reassurance that freedom of expression will be maintained. The Government do not help the cause of reducing Claire Ward: On the contrary, this provision gives bigotry and improper or violent behaviour against people comfort to those who wish to incite hatred or to be of a different orientation by fettering freedom of expression. threatening. They will believe that they can do those That is why this House should be so careful before it things if they are given this freedom of expression embarks on such a course of action, and that is why clause. It is completely unnecessary if they are not Lord Waddington has been sensible in trying to find a threatening or intending to stir up hatred. The hon. and formula that would provide reasonable reassurance that learned Gentleman refers to a range of circumstances this provision would not be misused—not just in terms that have occurred in the past, but that was not under of who eventually gets convicted in court, but above all this legislation. It was under the public order legislation, in terms of who is oppressed by those in authority which is quite different. arguing that they have transgressed by expressing legitimate opinions. The Minister cannot get away from the fact that that is a current problem and has not been concocted 8.45 pm out of thin air. Mr. Grieve: I would be more reassured if the Government Mark Pritchard: My hon. and learned Friend touches were taking the public order legislation problems that on the important point of precedent, and we have have arisen more seriously, but there is no sign that they already seen that with the public order legislation. I do have tabled amendments to try to deal with that problem. not wish to put him on the spot, but—given his concern As we know from a recent case, the problem is continuing. about the public order legislation and the crossover Indeed, if I understood the hon. Member for Oxford, with this Bill—perhaps I shall invite him on to the spot West and Abingdon correctly, he knows of an instance to say what he would do as Justice Secretary should we in which a prosecution was brought, although it was not form the next Government in May. completed. For that reason, we should be very wary of legislation that fetters freedom of speech. Mr. Grieve: It is quite plain that the way in which The Minister cannot have it both ways. On the one public order legislation has been applied needs to be hand, she says, “The legislation’s fine; you shouldn’t reviewed. That is something that many hon. Members worry about it.”Then she suddenly starts saying, “Actually, across the House would agree on, including, I suspect, the saving clause will encourage people to commit this the hon. Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon. That offence, not deter them from doing so.” If that is the does not necessarily mean that the legislation needs to case, she will have to provide a much better argument be altered, but the guidelines certainly need to be reviewed, than she has done this evening. From what she had to because there is a continuing failure to understand what say, it was not apparent how this saving clause would the offences that it is intended to deal with are. 109 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 110

However, I hope that my hon. Friend will forgive me The clause would not provide a defence, which is what if I bring us back to Lords amendment 59. I wish to the Minister implied at one point. It would not narrow bring my remarks to a close, as other Members wish to or alter the scope of the offence, which is what she tried participate in this debate. We on the Opposition Front to say earlier. However, if threats and an intention to Bench will vote to support Lord Waddington’s amendment. stir up hatred are not present, the discussion falls outside We believe that it is innocuous, that it provides much-needed the new offence, and the free speech clause simply reassurance in a difficult area and above all—I emphasise makes that plain. It is, as it says, for “the avoidance of this to the Minister—that it will not prevent the successful doubt”, and would help to protect innocent people prosecution of somebody who intends to incite hatred from unnecessary and intimidating police investigations. through threats. We need that protection, because there seems to be David Taylor: There is indeed a strong sense of déjà quite a lot of doubt, and as a result quite a lot of vu about this debate, given that it is the fourth time that unnecessary investigations. In fact, people seem to make we have discussed the free speech clause. We have also complaints to the police as a tactic to silence opinions discussed a previous attempted free speech clause, as that they do not like. I am sure that hon. Members from proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Heywood all parts of the House would agree that we should and Middleton (Jim Dobbin) in January 2008. I do not deprecate that. That is not what the criminal law is there want to add to the sense of déjà vu by repeating all the for, nor is it what the police are there for. We should arguments that have been made before, but I want to make that clear when there is doubt. explain why I think the Government are still wrong on Who wants the criminal law to be used to silence the matter and why I wish they would let the free speech discussion or criticism of sexual conduct? Who wants clause remain on the statute book, where it has been for the new homophobia offence to be used against those the past 18 months. who merely urge people to modify their conduct or, in The other place has voted for the clause three times, religious language, to repent of their sins? There have most recently in July, by 186 votes to 133, giving a been countless cases, and several more since we last majority of 53. I unsuccessfully moved an amendment discussed the matter in the House seven or eight months in this place on 24 March to retain the free speech ago, of exactly that happening. clause, so I was obviously pleased with the vote in July. I Andy Robertson is a street preacher. There is a video was especially pleased that more and more Back Benchers of him on YouTube, which hon. Members may watch in in the Lords from my party seemed to see the sense in a their offices before the vote. He comes across as an free speech clause. They either voted for it in greater eminently calm and sensible man, and he has preached numbers or abstained. I had hoped that the Government in the streets of Gainsborough, Lincolnshire for 10 years would start to see the sense in the free speech clause too. with no complaints whatever to the police or civil I find it hard to accept that we are again being asked authorities. Yet police officers were sent in by a council to vote against the free speech clause. I thought that free employee to move him on, and told him that describing speech, civil liberties and human rights were exactly the homosexuality as a sin falls foul of section 5 of the sorts of things that we were supposed to be in favour of. Public Order Act 1986. I shall return to that. The I am sure that they brought my hon. Friend the Minister preacher had not even mentioned homosexuality, but into the Labour party, among other things, and they the police, having failed to move him on by citing certainly did me in North-West Leicestershire. We should irrelevant council byelaws, seemed to seize on unfounded say that we support civil liberties. We all quote Voltaire and unsubstantiated allegations of homophobia as a and proclaim our tolerance, but here we have an opportunity device for shutting him up. If they can do that with to uphold tolerance for people whose views we may not section 5 of that Act, which is a general offence covering agree with, but who have a right to those views and a harassment caused by threats, abuse or insult, who can right to express them in a reasonable way. doubt that they would use the new offence, which Before anybody intervenes with a dreadful example specifically covers homosexuality? of incitement to violence against gay and lesbian people I look forward to hearing the hon. Member for that they claim would be protected by the free speech Oxford, West and Abingdon (Dr. Harris) if he catches clause, let me remind hon. Members—for the third your eye, Mr. Deputy Speaker. He believes that we time, and briefly—what it says: should remove the word “insulting” from the section 5 “for the avoidance of doubt, the discussion or criticism of sexual offence. I think he probably has a point, and I hope that conduct or practices or the urging of persons to refrain from or the Government will listen to it, but that will not solve modify such conduct or practices shall not be taken of itself to be the problem of how to stop the new homophobia threatening or intended to stir up hatred.” offence being abused in similar ways. Recent cases have The clause does not remove any mention of the context shown that a dangerous attitude to gay rights is prevalent of the remarks. We are not talking about protecting foul among the police and that makes it important to include rap lyrics or violent rants; we are talking about protecting the free speech clause. discussion, criticism or the urging of people to modify Another example with a little more detail is that of their conduct. If someone uses threatening words and Pauline Howe, which is the most recent case to hit the intends to stir up hatred, that is of course not mere headlines. She is a 67-year-old grandmother who wrote discussion, but discussion with threats and intent to stir to her council complaining about a gay pride march at up hatred, which falls squarely within the offence, and which she says she was verbally abused. She used old- so it should. fashioned, politically incorrect words and several biblical The free speech clause is irrelevant in one sense. As references, and I doubt whether many of us in the paragraph 392 of the explanatory notes makes clear, it House would have written a letter in those terms. I hope would not affect that the Minister is listening to my comments, and not “the threshold required for the offence to be made out.” just to Front Bench conversations. Pauline Howe’s letter 111 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 112

[David Taylor] free speech without putting the actual term into the text. The Waddington clause protects free speech by certainly did not merit two officers interrogating her in defining a range of moderate expressions—discussion, her living room, and apparently frightening the living criticism and urging—that already fall outside the offence, daylights out of her, but that is what happened. and by drawing them to the attention of the police and prosecutors. It is therefore signposted. Miss Widdecombe: Will the hon. Gentleman tell me whether he has any comprehension of how merely 9pm writing a letter to an official body could constitute an offence against public order? Mark Durkan: My hon. Friend has given a number of examples—albeit from different legislation—to support David Taylor: I am not a lawyer, but merely a humble his concerns. Has he heard any examples from the accountant, if that is not an oxymoron. I cannot explain Minister, or from anyone else in the Government, of that, but we have an eminent lawyer on the Front how the existing provision on free speech has either Bench—the Secretary of State—who may be able to confounded or frustrated the basic intent of the current explain that in an intervention or in some other way. legislation?

Mark Pritchard: Does the hon. Gentleman share my David Taylor: No, I have not. We have not heard any concern that without protection the Bill could be enforced convincing arguments at all. We have seen some smoke in areas such as home schooling, when some people and mirrors, and some hand-waving, but we have heard bring their children up in a particular faith, whether no evidence. Jewish, Muslim, Christian or another faith?— The Minister said tonight—I paraphrase slightly—that [Interruption.] The Minister may think that that is the clause has no effect and that we can therefore nonsense, but I am reflecting some of my constituents’ dispense with it. It is true that it does not change the concerns, and I am entitled to do so. If she has something threshold of the offence, but that is not the same as to say, she should say it from the Dispatch Box or from saying that it has no effect. It provides a signpost to the Back Benches and not from a sedentary position. police and prosecutors that they must leave innocent The point is serious. Does the hon. Gentleman agree people alone if all they have done is discuss or criticise that there is concern that the provision could be extended sexual conduct. There is plenty of evidence that there is to home schooling, and that people in their own homes a real problem with the police’s handling of these cases, could be restrained from teaching their children in a and the effect of the clause will be to tackle that particular faith course? problem. The Minister also said a moment ago that bad people David Taylor: There is a risk of that—I am not sure would try to hide their actions behind the clause. I can that there is any evidence that it is happening yet— say, even as a non-lawyer, that they would not have depending on the atmosphere within which the police much luck. The explanatory notes make it clear that the interpret the new legislation, and the pressures to which clause does not affect the threshold of the offence. If they will no doubt be subjected. someone breaches the threshold of the offence, the free Pauline Howe has been the subject of a considerable speech provision will do them no good whatever. I public outcry, and her freedom of speech has been believe that the Minister is demonstrating what psychologists defended by people across the political and philosophical call cognitive dissonance, in that she is holding two spectrum. I am sure that Ministers have heard or know mutually conflicting opinions at the same time. She is of Ben Summerskill of Stonewall, who said that the struggling with the tussle that they are causing in her police response in her case was “disproportionate”, brain. The free speech clause either achieves nothing or although I do not know where he stands on free speech. it allows bad people to get away with things that they One minute he is giving evidence to Parliament that he would otherwise not get away with—she cannot have it does not mind having a free speech clause in the both ways. It is either one or the other. It is a binary, homophobia offence, but the next minute he is campaigning black or white, zero or one, yes or no. There is no against it. However, he said that the police response to middle way that the Minister, as part of the Pauline Howe was “disproportionate”, and I agree, but intake into this place, would like to see. in 2007 he said that he was shocked that the police Nasty people who are facing prosecution will always allowed Christians to demonstrate outside Parliament cast about looking for a way to get off. They often against the sexual orientation regulations. We rightly falsely cite the Human Rights Act 1998, but I do not allow all sorts of demonstrations, some of them pretty think that any hon. Members believe that that is a unpleasant, outside this place, and I do not think that a reason to repeal that Act. Similarly, the fact that people few hundred hymn-singing Christians should be deprived will falsely, and unsuccessfully, cite the free speech of the democratic rights that the rest of the population clause is not a reason to repeal it. We are told that use of enjoy. Mr. Summerskill might not be the most reliable the phrase “of itself” might mean that people can guide on the subject of free speech. ignore the context of the remarks. That argument did We were told in the debate in the other place—and, not make any sense to me when the Lib Dems last by inference, this evening—that the Waddington clause raised it, and it still does not. I recall that the hon. and says nothing about free speech and that we should learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) dealt therefore not retain it. That is a silly, specious argument. with it fairly deftly at that time, although he did not get Just because something does not contain the term “free the chance to do so again tonight. I do not believe that speech” does not mean that it does not protect free it strips the context from the remarks that have been speech. We legislate in all kinds of ways to protect made. 113 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 114

We are also told that we can deal with the cases that I want to make it very clear that I support free speech we are worried about by amending section 5 of the for homophobes. I believe that people who are Public Order Act. The Government are apparently homophobic—that will include some religious people consulting on section 5; perhaps the Minister will confirm who may not necessarily intend any offence, but they where we are on that. Perhaps changes will be are perceived as homophobic by some people—should recommended, but that is not the offence we are dealing have the right to free speech without great restriction, with here. We are dealing with the homophobic hatred albeit within certain limits. It is a good thing that we are offence. If a general offence, such as section 5, can be discussing homosexuality in the context of free speech used against people for expressing views on homosexuality, rather than the rights and wrongs of homosexuality. I it is inevitable that an offence that specifically deals with think that that is a sign of how things have progressed homosexuality will be used even more often. So we during my time in the House. must pay special attention to the need to protect free I have to say to supporters of the Waddington speech in this area. amendment, however, that they are promoting the wrong There is a lot of public sympathy for these victims of amendment. If they want to tackle the existing mischief police heavy-handedness in the area of gay rights, and I and the future mischief of over-policing of comments think that people would like to see us make provision to that might be taken to be homophobic, they have to try to stop this sort of trampling on people’s civil ensure that our law does not criminalise insulting speech, liberties. The free speech clause does nothing whatever whether intentional or not, that is short of threatening—or, to reduce the level of protection that the Government— in the case of directly causing harassment, distress and quite rightly, and with widespread support—aim to give alarm to someone, something that is short of abusive. to gay people. While “insulting” exists in the Public Order Act, inserting this provision into it will, with or without the Waddington The Government admit that the clause does not amendment, still make people feel that they cannot affect the threshold of the offence; it cannot therefore insult people on the basis of sexual orientation and will be used to defend actions that fall within the ambit of still make the police believe—perhaps the police should the offence. It does not remotely affect any of the other think much more carefully about this, but the “insulting” criminal offences that can be used to target those who provision is on the statute book—that they have to perpetrate or encourage acts of violence towards any investigate complaints, particularly given the fact that members of our society or to target words that cause people feel that the police should take seriously complaints “harassment, alarm or distress”. We should find the about incitement to hatred or insulting behaviour on guilty and prosecute them—who would not endorse the grounds of race, sexual orientation or religion. I that sentiment?—but we should not catch the innocent thus urge the House to recognise that in a sense we are in the crossfire of that approach. debating the wrong amendment. I will come on in a few The free speech clause does no harm whatever; it moments to the right amendment to remove the insulting does only good. If we remove this free speech clause, we provisions from the statute book, but it has been put to send out the message that we are quite happy to take a this House—although not debated—and is supported risk with the freedom of people like Andy Robertson by the Joint Committee on Human Rights. and Pauline Howe. I, for one, am not prepared to take that risk: I will vote against the Government and I urge David Taylor: The hon. Gentleman may have heard other hon. Members to do exactly the same. that I anticipated his bringing up this point. I think that his point should be supported and that the word “insulting” should be removed. Is he firmly of the opinion, however, Dr. Evan Harris: It is good to be back on this subject. that that is all that is necessary to improve this particular I always predicate my remarks on these issues with the legislation and that the chance of further over-the-top words of the late and greatly missed Linda Smith, who and heavy-booted action by the police and other authorities said. “I’m not religious; I get on with everyone.” I doubt would be much less if that one word were removed? whether that could apply to me, but it is fair to say that I have a record of protecting free speech. That is true in Dr. Harris: It would be much less, because the police respect of religious hatred—as the hon. and learned clearly would not investigate in the outrageous cases Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) will remember, about which we have heard. The treatment of Pauline we worked together on curtailing what would have been Howe, whom the hon. Gentleman mentioned earlier, an overly broad offence. I have also worked on proposing was not disproportionate but absurd. It was disgraceful the repeal of blasphemy, on opposing the criminalisation that the police wasted their time on such a matter. If the of the so-called “glorification” of terrorism, on calling “insulting” provision was not there, I am certain that for libel law reform and, indeed, on proposing an the problem would be less. We cannot legislate for every amendment to get rid of the “insulting” provisions in over-officious police officer, but we can make a clear section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986, which we were statutory change to get rid of that provision. Although not able to debate during the passage of this Bill through we are not debating that provision now, it is relevant. the House because of the use, yet again, of a preposterous undemocratic programme motion, which denied us the Miss Widdecombe: What the hon. Gentleman says opportunity to provide due scrutiny to Government may be true, and the menace may be section 5 of the legislation. I should add that owing to yet another Public Order Act, but it is not before us tonight, it is not programme motion that has not been consulted on—at for amendment, and there is no immediate proposal by least not with Liberal Democrat Members—the provision the Government to amend it. We must therefore use passed in the other place to repeal seditious libel and what is at our disposal to try to guarantee free speech. criminal libel is one that once again we cannot debate. I Given the circumstances that we are in—rather than hope the House will therefore accept that I have a those he wishes us to be in—he should support this record of supporting free speech. amendment. 115 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 116

Dr. Harris: I am an eternal optimist, and I believe Dr. Harris: This offence has not existed for long while that we should aim for the right legislation, not create the free speech saving clause has been in place, so I do the wrong legislation on the way to getting the right not think that there has been an issue in that regard. legislation. My hon. Friends and I will support the What we must deal with is the existing mischief, rather Government in the Lobby tonight, and I suspect that than hypothetical situations. There is a real threat of there will be another large majority in favour of deleting incitement to homophobic hatred by extremist political the provision, so the matter will go back to the House of parties, as opposed to the religious. The example that I Lords. However, their lordships should apply themselves gave would not currently constitute an offence because to the specific legislation where the problem lies. it does not directly incite violence, but incites hatred Let me set out the reasons for the position taken by and involves the use of threatening language. Until we the Liberal Democrats. As the Minister said, the incitement have this law, there was no provision to deal with to racial hatred provision currently has a low threshold. incitement to hatred on grounds of sexual orientation. However, the religious hatred provision rightly has a Let me turn to the so-called Waddington amendment. much higher threshold—it was important that that was I do not doubt the sincerity of Members who support restricted to threatening language, and that “intentional” it, but I note that its sponsors in the Lords were not very was a requisite part of the offence. Given the importance keen on free speech when it came to the repeal of the of being able to proselytise freely, or to criticise religion, blasphemy laws, and generally have not been defenders there should be a broad free speech saving that was not of free speech when it comes to terrorism law. There is about religious conduct or practice but about the arenas clearly a lobby in favour of extra provisions for free in which speech would take place, such as those of speech in one area, the area of sexual orientation, but political discourse, comedy, performance or broadcast. we must take that on its merits. What concerns me Clearly, that would not be in the nature of language that about that amendment is that its wording creates confusion. was threatening and intended to incite hatred such as Let me give the hon. and learned Member for when talking to a bunch of skinheads in a pub. The Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) an example, because he invited measure that we agreed for religious hatred is therefore me to do so. The amendment states that the the right one. “criticism of sexual… practices or the urging of persons to refrain In relation to hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation, from or modify such conduct or practices shall not be taken of the Government have done what is essential: they have itself to be threatening or intended to stir up hatred.” ensured that the measure deals with threatening only, Does that mean that if some extremist group, probably and intentional language only. I can think of no pastor political rather than religious, says, “These gays should or street preacher who is so extreme that they would keep their dirty practices away from our children or seek to incite hatred and use threatening language. They they will get what is coming to them,” that would be might do one or the other, but it is hard to imagine a covered by the clause? They might think, rightly or preacher who would do both. I do not necessarily have wrongly, that because they were restricting their language good views of religious extremists, but I cannot think of to criticism of practices—and it is clearly critical of a one who is likely to do that. Some religious extremists sexual practice—and urging people to refrain from such incite violence directly, and that is already an offence, practices, albeit in an outrageous and distorted way, but they do not go the roundabout way of intending to they would benefit from the protection of the clause. stir up hatred using threatening language; they usually They might say that their language should not of itself talk about measures that incite violence directly. No be taken to be threatening or intended to stir up hatred, example has been given of the sort of religious speech although it clearly is threatening and does stir up hatred. that would be covered, without the so-called saving. The saving is unnecessary to protect religious speech. I think it is a bit too late for the hon. and learned Gentleman to get out his law books after the damage However, there is a real danger out there of extremist has been done, and to say, “No, actually they do not political parties using threatening language about sexual benefit from the saving clause”, but I should be grateful orientation that is intended to stir up hatred, without if he could address the issue. otherwise breaching another part of the statute. Again, let us imagine the British National party saying something Mr. Grieve: I do not think they would benefit from homophobic in the context of paedophilia, which is, of the saving clause, because their language would be course, a myth about homosexuality. However, if it is threatening. That is clear from the expression, “They inciting, and if it uses the words, “And they’ve got it will get what is coming to them.” I do not think that, coming to them,” that adds the threat, and that is the given those circumstances, that is a valid criticism of the real mischief. We know how child abuse is sometimes operation of the saving clause. It is, of course, right to dealt with in the popular press, and how that can create say—we have debated this in the past—that incitement the sort of mob mentality that is the execution of the to hatred should not be construed as the same as incitement of hatred. That would rightly be caught by expressing a dislike of something, including quite an the offence. intense dislike. There is a dividing line between the two, and in my experience courts, and indeed police officers, ought to have no difficulty in telling the one 9.15 pm from the other. Mark Durkan: The hon. Gentleman has touched on an attempt to answer the basic question that I was going Dr. Harris: What if I say to the hon. and learned to ask him. Does he know of any case in which the Gentleman that the wording was, “These gays had existing free speech saving clause has prevented investigation better keep their dirty practices away from our children”? or a prosecution when it might have been suggested that There is a threat in that wording, but is the hon. and one should have taken place in the broad public interest? learned Gentleman saying that that of itself should not 117 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 118 be taken to be threatening or intended to stir up hatred? Finally, I want to move on to the alternative way of This is the difficulty, and I note that the hon. and dealing with this. There have been occasions—including learned Gentleman is not rising to deal with it. There is all the examples that have been given, such as the not a direct threat in the words “had better”, but there is Lancashire and Norfolk cases, Iqbal Sacranie and Lynette an implicit threat. I could also have used the words “or Burrows—when the people concerned have been questioned else”. In the context of a mob or crowd of skinheads, by the police. That must stop. The Joint Committee on for example, in a pub back room, that is a problem. Human Rights has made it very clear in its considerations of this matter that it is time for the “insulting” provision Mr. Grieve: I do try to listen to an argument before I to be removed from the Public Order Act. It said that in intervene, and I think that those words would be caught the policing and protest inquiry, which was in the in exactly the same fashion. seventh report of 2007-08, and it said it in its eighth report, on this Bill. Dr. Harris: That is the opinion of the hon. and It is welcome that the Government are looking at learned Gentleman, but it is not apparent in the wording this. However, I hope the Minister will be able to say in of the saving clause. It could be taken to lead people to winding up that they have stopped looking and are now believe that as long as they talked only about sexual going to start doing, because I do not think there is conduct or practices and not about homosexuality itself, opposition to this anywhere in the House. The police nor about people themselves, that was a get-out. It is no may object, because they want the ability to start questioning good saying, “Well, when the first case is prosecuted, anyone who insults anyone else short of being threatening this will filter out to the mobs,” because that is not the or abusive, but that is not good enough. way these things work. I therefore think this is unnecessary If the Government are serious about protecting free and, as the Minister said, it could cause confusion. I speech, they have to deal with this, because there has disagree about whether it would be covered, but we do been a prosecution. The case of Hammond v. DPP not have to agree on that; rather, we have to recognise involved that it is not clear law. “an elderly street preacher who preached in the centre of Bournemouth on a Saturday afternoon while holding a large sign with the Mark Durkan: Will the hon. Gentleman not agree words: ‘Stop Immorality’, ‘Stop Homosexuality’, ‘Stop Lesbianism’ that the example he has given is of people not talking and ‘Jesus is Lord’. A hostile crowd of some 30 to 40 people had about the actual sexual practices of homosexuals, but formed, some of whom reacted violently by assaulting Mr. Hammond. alleging criminal behaviour and the threat of criminal After his refusal to desist from preaching, and following substantial debate among themselves…the police decided to arrest Hammond activity—which he has rightly said they are not involved rather than his opponents and he was duly convicted of displaying in, because he said that paedophilia is a completely an ‘insulting’ sign causing ‘alarm or distress’…contrary to section 5 misdirected accusation that comes from people of prejudice of the Public Order Act 1986.” against people of homosexuality? Therefore, by the The divisional court upheld the conviction, despite a hon. Gentleman’s own explanation, this is not of itself a human rights claim. That means we cannot rely even on discussion of their sexual practices. article 10 of the convention. We need to get rid of this statute. I understand that, unfortunately, the gentleman Dr. Harris: What matters is whether the mob stirred died before he was able to take his appeal further. I up thinks it is, because that is what causes the damage. think that even if just one person is treated like this, it is It is not for the court to decide whether it is a reasonable unacceptable. statement. The court has to decide whether it stirs up hatred, whether it was intended to stir up hatred and Dr. McCrea: But surely the hon. Gentleman understands whether the language was threatening; and after the that this is the dilemma that preachers face. Here was a damage has been done it is too late for Members to person simply standing with a placard, and yet there come back and say, “Well, the saving clause wasn’t was no protection for him. The Government know really intended to cover this, and on a narrow argument.” about this. They say they are looking at it, but they are It looks as though it does give a let-out; and it is not an certainly acting in some circumstances where action is offence to accuse other persons unnamed of criminal not needed. Why are they not doing something that is offences—we do that all the time—so there is no alternative needed to protect people exercising their lawful right prosecution. to preach? Dr. Harris: I do not think that any of these people Mark Durkan: The hon. Gentleman has just would be prosecuted under the law before us, but they acknowledged that in the example he has given, hatred clearly remain at risk of being investigated, and potentially had been stirred up. Although the mob would not prosecuted and convicted, under section 5 of the Public understand this, if the mob had been stirred up, even Order Act. The Minister could do us all a favour by with the saving clause, an offence would clearly have helping those of us who want to help the Government been committed. by saying something substantive on that point. I think that she and her right hon. Friend the Secretary of State Dr. Harris: I do not accept that that is clear, but I also will accept that it has been raised by me on several feel strongly that whether or not that is the case, it is not occasions. It is the real problem. Her doing so would apparent to people reading the statute what the saving unite and Daily Mail, the right hon. clause does and does not allow; that is simply not clear. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Miss Widdecombe) To put the words and me—nothing else that I can think of does that—as “for the avoidance of doubt” well as solving her problem in the other place. I urge her in front of the provision does not make it any clearer. In to say something on that, so that we get the right law fact, it makes it seem that it should be obvious, and and the right amendment passed. Otherwise, I urge the when it is not obvious, one is puzzled. House to support the Government in this matter. 119 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 120

Miss Widdecombe: First, may I say to the Minister children’s author Lynette Burrows, to Iqbal Sacranie that neither she nor her right hon. Friend the Secretary himself—no preacher, said the hon. Lady, is in any of State, or any Minister involved in this law, has the danger, but what is Iqbal Sacranie if he is not a religious smallest appreciation of how threatened people out leader and preacher?—and lately of course in the Norfolk there feel when it comes to the exercise of free speech? case. There has to be a signal from us that enough is One of the most common phrases that we hear now, on enough; that guidance will not suffice, because it has a wide range of topics, not just this one, is “Of course, not sufficed; and that condemnation from this House you can’t say that these days.” Normally, it is said to and from those on the Government Front Bench does indicate that the person has a view but is afraid, under not suffice, because it has not sufficed. We must make it current state orthodoxy, to express it. explicit that there is freedom of opinion, freedom of Interestingly, when we last debated this particular conscience, freedom of religious belief and, above all, amendment from the other place—I hope that the other freedom of the ability to express any of them. place insists on it, as it has done in the past—many of the same examples were cited, although the most recent Claire Ward: This has been an interesting debate. Norfolk one was obviously not available then. The However hard I try to make it absolutely clear to the Minister at the time—not this one, I hasten to add—stood right hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald at that Dispatch Box and told us categorically, “Of (Miss Widdecombe) and the hon. and learned Member course, this was unreasonable. None of that police for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) and, indeed, to my hon. action should have taken place.” Let us forget for a Friend the Member for North-West Leicestershire moment which particular law it took place under. She (David Taylor), who has shifted his place— said that it was all due to misplaced interpretation and all that would be cleared up by guidance. Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): Yes, he is Several incidents have taken place in which police always like that. action has resulted in very severe criticism, including from Ministers. Despite that, despite the publicity given Claire Ward: Indeed, he is capable of doing so. to it and despite the Government apparently distancing It is easily possible to outline both the existing provisions themselves from that sort of action, recently there was and the reasons that make the measure unnecessary. an exact repeat of the problem in the case of the It is not necessary to put on the face of the Bill that 67-year-old pensioner from Norfolk. In other words, freedom of expression should be protected. We do not not all the guidance that is being issued is stopping this legislate for that in a range of other areas where we particular menace. It may be that the hon. Member for believe that we all have a right to express our views, and Oxford, West and Abingdon (Dr. Harris) is right when in this instance we need not do it because the Attorney- he says that the most satisfactory way of addressing this General, who would have to consider any prosecution, problem would be through section 5 of the Public Order has a duty to take into account the convention rights Act, but that Act is not before us tonight. It is not under the Human Rights Act 1998— promised to be before us in the near future or even in the distant future, long after this Government have Miss Widdecombe: Will the hon. Lady give way? ceased to exist—it is not promised to be before us at all. Thus we must act with the tools that we have got. Claire Ward: I will in a moment. The amendment offers some very necessary reassurance There is therefore no need for this saving provision on to people who seriously believe at the moment that their freedom of expression. freedom of expression is restricted and that it is now possible—we have seen from those examples that indeed The provision might be harmful because it might well it is—that the police will arrive on their doorstep not give some comfort to those people who wish to stir up because of something that they have done, but for an hatred and who wish intentionally to use threatening opinion that they have expressed. That properly belongs words to stir up hatred. They might well be able to to totalitarian states; it should not belong to free countries. argue that it is simply a use of their freedom of expression It should never be a feature of a free country that if one to do so, and that cannot be acceptable when we have writes to a council to express a view on something— already set the threshold of the offence so high. For that anything at all—it should result in the police arriving reason, I believe that it is perfectly possible, perfectly on the doorstep. logical and perfectly legitimate to argue not only that it is unreasonable and unnecessary to have this clause but The amendment seeks to reinstate a clause that simply, that it could be harmful to do so. for the avoidance of doubt, endeavours to put on the face of the legislation freedom of conscience and freedom Miss Widdecombe: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for of the expression of religious and other views. When giving way, but the point has almost passed. She was such a provision was last opposed by the Government, the referring to the unlikelihood of a prosecution. We are entire argument—it is all there in Hansard—was based on seeking to avoid the likelihood of even the earliest its being unnecessary. If it was merely unnecessary, there stages of an investigation for a mere expression of would not be such movement tonight to remove it, and opinion—in other words, the police on the doorstep. so now the Minister has changed the position. Now, it is not so much that it is unnecessary, but that it might produce the sort of behaviour that we are trying to curtail. Claire Ward: I perfectly appreciate what the right hon. Lady is saying, but we heard misconceptions about 9.30 pm how the offence might be used. The ground has shifted, but there needs to be protection It has been said that without a freedom of expression for ordinary Britons from having the police on their provision, the offence will have a chilling effect and may doorsteps, as happened to the Lancashire couple, to the prevent people from proselytising against homosexuality 121 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 122 or from expressing their distaste for certain sexual practices. David Taylor: Will my hon. Friend give way? It has been alleged that the offence would prevent people from preaching religious doctrine. It has even Claire Ward: I shall make a little more progress. been suggested—by the hon. Member for The Wrekin Those incidents of purported over-zealous policing (Mark Pritchard)—that somehow it will fetter the ability have probably taken place under section 5 of the Public of people who want to home-school or to bring up their Order Act. Without seeing the details, it is not for me to children in a particular faith. say whether the police acted appropriately in those The offence does not do that. If parents or home cases. There are opportunities for people to object and educators wish to teach their children, for example, that express grievances against the police, should they wish homosexuality is wrong or that certain sexual practices to do so. The hon. Member for Oxford, West and are wrong or unacceptable, or if they wish to be insulting Abingdon (Dr. Harris) is right to make it clear that the about such practices or about homosexuality, it would Government have said that they intend to examine the not be covered by the offence, which is simply about issue. In his letter to my hon. Friend the Member for threatening words that are intended to stir up hatred. Hendon (Mr. Dismore), the Chair of the Joint Committee The right hon. Lady and the hon. Gentleman have on Human Rights, my right hon. Friend the Minister simply not understood or accepted the high threshold for Policing, Crime and Counter-Terrorism stated: level in the clause. Let me repeat that the offence can “In our reply to your report and in oral evidence to the bite only when the words or behaviour are threatening Committee, the Home Office also gave undertakings to consult and intended to stir up hatred against a group of people on amendments to section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986...We on the grounds of sexual orientation. have sought views from a range of stakeholders on section 5 and Evangelical preaching against homosexuality or are currently collating the responses”. portraying gay characters in comedy sketches could So we are looking seriously at those issues. only be caught up if it was done in a threatening way, intended to stir up hatred. Any words or behaviour that Several hon. Members rose— fall into that category should rightly be caught by the law. If the hon. Gentleman or the right hon. Lady are Claire Ward: I want to deal with a few other issues. I suggesting that they should not be, clearly they are shall give way to the hon. Member for Oxford, West and suggesting that it is acceptable to incite hatred against Abingdon, then I intend to make progress so that there homosexuals. I do not believe that is what the right hon. is an opportunity to discuss other points that were Lady is saying, but if that is not what she is saying, she raised. needs to give credit to the assurances from the Dispatch Box that the offence is not about criminalising people Dr. Harris: I am grateful to the Minister for re-confirming who simply preach or proselytise their religious or what the Government said in response to the Joint moral values if they do not intend to stir up hatred by Committee on the matter. I welcome that, as far as it doing so. goes, but can she give any indication of a time scale for Mr. Grieve: Quite apart from the fact that the Minister’s any legislation that might flow from that review? In remarks are rather offensive in terms of the views of other words, if there is a criminal justice Bill in the next Members on the Opposition Benches, I have absolutely Queen’s Speech—as sure as night follows day, there will no doubt that section 5 of the Public Order Act was not be—would such a measure be in time to be included in intended to be applied in the way it has been applied. I that Bill? have no doubt that if the provision had been debated in the House exactly the same assurances would have been Claire Ward: As I stated, we are considering the given. The fact of the matter is that the legislation that responses from stakeholders. We will consider that issue, is being enacted has the capacity to be misused—I do and the hon. Gentleman will have to wait and see. not have the slightest doubt about that—which is the Let me deal with the other issues that were raised. very reason why we thought it was sensible of Lord The hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) referred to Waddington to include a saving clause that ensured that the situation in Northern Ireland. It is an offence in did not happen. What can possibly be wrong with that? Northern Ireland to incite hatred on the grounds of Claire Ward: I have already explained that it is completely race, religion, disability or sexual orientation. There is unnecessary to provide such a clause. We do not provide no such offence in Scotland, although the Administration saving clauses or freedom of expression clauses on a are considering introducing aggravating factors there range of other forms of offence, where it is not necessary. similar to those that already exist in England and Wales. It is not something that we would advocate. It is simply The law in Northern Ireland does not have a freedom of wrong to imply that the offence could cover anything expression provision of the kind under discussion. else, as some Members have suggested this evening. It is important that we make it clear to the public and Freedom of expression or saving clauses imply that to those who have strong religious and moral views that there is room for doubt and make the position less clear. we are in no way fettering their freedom of speech. The police and prosecutors, and indeed the public, need However, we are making it equally clear that those clarity and certainty about the scope of the criminal views cannot be used to justify threats or words intended law, and the offence as it stands, without the saving to stir up hatred. The section currently in the legislation provision in section 29JA of the Public Order Act, is unnecessary. It is appropriate to send a clear message, creates uncertainty. It clouds the issue and it should be for the fourth time, back to the other place that this removed. House does not agree with the amendment. This House Many Members have made reference this evening to is making it clear that we do not require a freedom of the concerns that have been expressed about purported expression clause, and that the threshold for the offence incidents of over-zealous policing— is already high. 123 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 124

Question put, That this House disagrees with Lords Goggins, rh Paul Ladyman, Dr. Stephen amendment 59. Goldsworthy, Julia Lamb, Norman Goodman, Helen Lammy, rh Mr. David The House proceeded to a Division. Griffith, Nia Laws, Mr. David Griffiths, Nigel Laxton, Mr. Bob Mr. Speaker: I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate Gwynne, Andrew Leech, Mr. John the delay in the Aye Lobby. Hain, rh Mr. Peter Lepper, David The House having divided: Ayes 342, Noes 145. Hall, Mr. Mike Levitt, Tom Hall, Patrick Lewis, Mr. Ivan Division No. 243] [9.44 pm Hamilton, Mr. David Linton, Martin Hamilton, Mr. Fabian Lloyd, Tony AYES Hancock, Mr. Mike Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn Abbott, Ms Diane Clapham, Mr. Michael Hanson, rh Mr. David Love, Mr. Andrew Ainger, Nick Clark, Ms Katy Harman, rh Ms Harriet Lucas, Ian Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Clark, Paul Harris, Dr. Evan MacShane, rh Mr. Denis Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Harvey, Nick Mactaggart, Fiona Allen, Mr. Graham Clarke,rhMr.Tom Havard, Mr. Dai Malik, Mr. Shahid Anderson, Mr. David Clelland, Mr. David Healey, rh John Mallaber, Judy Anderson, Janet Clwyd, rh Ann Heath, Mr. David Mann, John Atkins, Charlotte Coaker, Mr. Vernon Hemming, John Marris, Rob Austin, Mr. Ian Coffey, Ann Henderson, Mr. Doug Marsden, Mr. Gordon Austin, John Connarty, Michael Hendrick, Mr. Mark Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert Baird, Vera Cooper, Rosie Hepburn, Mr. Stephen McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Baker, Norman Cooper, rh Yvette Hesford, Stephen McCabe, Steve Balls, rh Ed Corbyn, Jeremy Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia McCafferty, Chris McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Banks, Gordon Cousins, Jim Heyes, David McDonagh, Siobhain Barlow, Ms Celia Crausby, Mr. David Hill, rh Keith McDonnell, John Barrett, John Creagh, Mary Hodge, rh Margaret McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Cruddas, Jon Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon McFall, rh John Battle, rh John Cryer, Mrs. Ann Hood, Mr. Jim Bayley, Hugh Cummings, John McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Beckett, rh Margaret Cunningham, Mr. Jim McKechin, Ann Hope, Phil Begg, Miss Anne Cunningham, Tony McKenna, Rosemary Hopkins, Kelvin Bell, Sir Stuart Davey, Mr. Edward McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Horwood, Martin Benn, rh Hilary David, Mr. Wayne Meacher, rh Mr. Michael Berry, Roger Davies, Mr. Quentin Howarth, David Meale, Mr. Alan Betts, Mr. Clive Dean, Mrs. Janet Howarth, rh Mr. George Merron, Gillian Blackman, Liz Denham, rh Mr. John Howells, rh Dr. Kim Michael, rh Alun Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay Miller, Andrew Blears, rh Hazel Dismore, Mr. Andrew Hughes, Simon Mitchell, Mr. Austin Blizzard, Mr. Bob Dobson, rh Frank Huhne, Chris Moffatt, Laura Borrow, Mr. David S. Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. Humble, Mrs. Joan Mole, Chris Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Doran, Mr. Frank Hunter, Mark Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Brake, Tom Eagle, Angela Hutton, rh Mr. John Morden, Jessica Breed, Mr. Colin Eagle, Maria Iddon, Dr. Brian Morgan, Julie Brennan, Kevin Efford, Clive Illsley, Mr. Eric Morley, rh Mr. Elliot Mountford, Kali Brooke, Annette Ellman, Mrs. Louise Ingram, rh Mr. Adam Mudie, Mr. George Brown, Lyn Engel, Natascha Irranca-Davies, Huw Mulholland, Greg Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Ennis, Jeff James, Mrs. Siân C. Mullin, Mr. Chris Brown, Mr. Russell Etherington, Bill Jenkins, Mr. Brian Farrelly, Paul Munn, Meg Browne, Mr. Jeremy Johnson, rh Alan Featherstone, Lynne Murphy, Mr. Denis Bruce, rh Malcolm Johnson, Ms Diana R. Fisher, Mark Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Bryant, Chris Jones, Helen Fitzpatrick, Jim Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Buck, Ms Karen Jones, Mr. Kevan Flello, Mr. Robert Naysmith, Dr. Doug Jones, Lynne Burden, Richard Flint, rh Caroline Norris, Dan Burnham, rh Andy Flynn, Paul Jones, Mr. Martyn O’Hara, Mr. Edward Burstow, Mr. Paul Follett, Barbara Jowell, rh Tessa Olner, Mr. Bill Burt, Lorely Foster, Mr. Don Joyce, Mr. Eric Osborne, Sandra Butler, Ms Dawn Foster, Mr. Michael Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Owen, Albert Byrne, rh Mr. Liam (Worcester) Keeble, Ms Sally Palmer, Dr. Nick Cable, Dr. Vincent Foster, Michael Jabez Keeley, Barbara Pearson, Ian Caborn, rh Mr. Richard (Hastings and Rye) Keen, Alan Plaskitt, Mr. James Cairns, David Francis, Dr. Hywel Keetch, Mr. Paul Pope, Mr. Greg Campbell, Mr. Alan Gapes, Mike Kelly, rh Ruth Pound, Stephen Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Gardiner, Barry Kemp, Mr. Fraser Prentice, Bridget Campbell, Mr. Ronnie George, Andrew Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Prentice, Mr. Gordon Carmichael, Mr. Alistair George, rh Mr. Bruce Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Prescott, rh Mr. John Caton, Mr. Martin Gerrard, Mr. Neil Kidney, Mr. David Price, Adam Cawsey, Mr. Ian Gidley, Sandra Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Primarolo, rh Dawn Challen, Colin Gilroy, Linda Knight, rh Jim Prosser, Gwyn Chapman, Ben Godsiff, Mr. Roger Kumar, Dr. Ashok Pugh, Dr. John 125 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 126

Purchase, Mr. Ken Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Grogan, Mr. John Prisk, Mr. Mark Purnell, rh James Swinson, Jo Gummer, rh Mr. John Pritchard, Mark Rammell, Bill Tami, Mark Hague, rh Mr. William Randall, Mr. John Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Taylor, Ms Dari Hammond, Stephen Redwood, rh Mr. John Reed, Mr. Andy Teather, Sarah Hands, Mr. Greg Robertson, Hugh Reed, Mr. Jamie Thomas, Mr. Gareth Harper, Mr. Mark Robertson, Mr. Laurence Reid, Mr. Alan Thurso, John Heald, Mr. Oliver Rosindell, Andrew Reid, rh John Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Heathcoat-Amory, rh Selous, Andrew Rennie, Willie Todd, Mr. Mark Mr. David Simmonds, Mark Riordan, Mrs. Linda Touhig, rh Mr. Don Hendry, Charles Simpson, Mr. Keith Robertson, John Trickett, Jon Hoey, Kate Smith, Chloe Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Truswell, Mr. Paul Hollobone, Mr. Philip Smith, Geraldine Rogerson, Dan Turner, Dr. Desmond Holloway, Mr. Adam Soames, Mr. Nicholas Rooney, Mr. Terry Turner, Mr. Neil Horam, Mr. John Spelman, Mrs. Caroline Roy, Lindsay Twigg, Derek Howarth, Mr. Gerald Spicer, Sir Michael Ruane, Chris Ussher, Kitty Howell, John Spink, Bob Ruddock, Joan Vaz, rh Keith Hurd, Mr. Nick Spring, Mr. Richard Russell, Bob Vis, Dr. Rudi Jack, rh Mr. Michael Stanley, rh Sir John Russell, Christine Walley, Joan Jackson, Mr. Stewart Steen, Mr. Anthony Ryan, rh Joan Waltho, Lynda Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Streeter, Mr. Gary Salter, Martin Ward, Claire Kawczynski, Daniel Stuart, Mr. Graham Sanders, Mr. Adrian Watson, Mr. Tom Key, Robert Swayne, Mr. Desmond Seabeck, Alison Watts, Mr. Dave Knight, rh Mr. Greg Swire, Mr. Hugo Shaw, Jonathan Whitehead, Dr. Alan Laing, Mrs. Eleanor Syms, Mr. Robert Sheerman, Mr. Barry Wicks, rh Malcolm Lait, Mrs. Jacqui Taylor, David Sheridan, Jim Williams, rh Mr. Alan Lansley, Mr. Andrew Taylor, Mr. Ian Simon, Mr. Siôn Williams, Mrs. Betty Leigh, Mr. Edward Taylor, Dr. Richard Skinner, Mr. Dennis Williams, Hywel Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver Timpson, Mr. Edward Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Williams, Mr. Roger Lewis, Dr. Julian Turner, Mr. Andrew Smith, Ms Angela C. Williams, Stephen Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian Tyrie, Mr. Andrew (Sheffield, Hillsborough) Willis, Mr. Phil Lidington, Mr. David Vaizey, Mr. Edward Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon) Willott, Jenny Lilley, rh Mr. Peter Vara, Mr. Shailesh Smith, rh Jacqui Wills, rh Mr. Michael Loughton, Tim Viggers, Sir Peter Smith, Sir Robert Wilson, Phil Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew Walker, Mr. Charles Snelgrove, Anne Winnick, Mr. David Mackinlay, Andrew Wallace, Mr. Ben Southworth, Helen Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Maclean, rh David Walter, Mr. Robert Spellar, rh Mr. John Wright, David Main, Anne Waterson, Mr. Nigel Maples, Mr. John Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Wright, Dr. Tony Watkinson, Angela Stewart, Ian McCrea, Dr. William Wyatt, Derek Whittingdale, Mr. John Stoate, Dr. Howard McIntosh, Miss Anne Younger-Ross, Richard Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann Straw, rh Mr. Jack McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick Wiggin, Bill Stringer, Graham Tellers for the Ayes: Mercer, Patrick Wilson, Mr. Rob Stuart, Ms Gisela Mr. John Heppell and Miller, Mrs. Maria Winterton, Ann Stunell, Andrew Kerry McCarthy Milton, Anne Winterton, Sir Nicholas Moss, Mr. Malcolm Wright, Jeremy Neill, Robert NOES Yeo, Mr. Tim Newmark, Mr. Brooks Young, rh Sir George Afriyie, Adam Crabb, Mr. Stephen O’Brien, Mr. Stephen Ainsworth, Mr. Peter Davies, Mr. Dai Pelling, Mr. Andrew Tellers for the Noes: Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James Davies, David T.C. Penning, Mike Mr. John Baron and Atkinson, Mr. Peter (Monmouth) Penrose, John Mr. Philip Dunne Baldry, Tony Davies, Philip Davis, rh David Beith, rh Sir Alan Question accordingly agreed to. Bellingham, Mr. Henry Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan Benton, Mr. Joe Dobbin, Jim Lords amendment 59 disagreed to. Benyon, Mr. Richard Drew, Mr. David Blunt, Mr. Crispin Duddridge, James Ellwood, Mr. Tobias Bone, Mr. Peter Evans, Mr. Nigel 10.4 pm Bottomley, Peter Fabricant, Michael Brazier, Mr. Julian Proceedings interrupted (Programme Order; this day) Field, rh Mr. Frank Brokenshire, James The Speaker put forthwith the Questions necessary for Fraser, Christopher Browning, Angela the disposal of the business to be concluded at that time Garnier, Mr. Edward (Standing Order No. 83F). Burns, Mr. Simon Gauke, Mr. David Burrowes, Mr. David Gibb, Mr. Nick Lords amendments 119, 121, 236 and 239 disagreed to. Burt, Alistair Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl Butterfill, Sir John Goodman, Mr. Paul Carswell, Mr. Douglas Gray, Mr. James Cash, Mr. William Green, Damian Chope, Mr. Christopher Greening, Justine After Clause 103 Clappison, Mr. James Greenway, Mr. John Motion made, and Question put, That this House Cox, Mr. Geoffrey Grieve, Mr. Dominic disagrees with Lords amendment 66.—(Bridget Prentice.) 127 Coroners and Justice Bill9 NOVEMBER 2009 Coroners and Justice Bill 128

The House divided: Ayes 290, Noes 67. Irranca-Davies, Huw Olner, Mr. Bill Division No. 244] [10.06 pm James, Mrs. Siân C. Osborne, Sandra Jenkins, Mr. Brian Owen, Albert AYES Johnson, rh Alan Palmer, Dr. Nick Abbott, Ms Diane Dean, Mrs. Janet Johnson, Ms Diana R. Pearson, Ian Ainger, Nick Denham, rh Mr. John Jones, Helen Plaskitt, Mr. James Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Jones, Mr. Kevan Pope, Mr. Greg Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Dobbin, Jim Jones, Lynne Pound, Stephen Allen, Mr. Graham Dobson, rh Frank Jones, Mr. Martyn Prentice, Bridget Anderson, Mr. David Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. Jowell, rh Tessa Prentice, Mr. Gordon Anderson, Janet Doran, Mr. Frank Joyce, Mr. Eric Prescott, rh Mr. John Atkins, Charlotte Drew, Mr. David Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Primarolo, rh Dawn Austin, Mr. Ian Eagle, Angela Keeble, Ms Sally Prosser, Gwyn Austin, John Eagle, Maria Keeley, Barbara Purchase, Mr. Ken Baird, Vera Efford, Clive Keen, Alan Purnell, rh James Balls, rh Ed Ellman, Mrs. Louise Kelly, rh Ruth Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Banks, Gordon Engel, Natascha Kemp, Mr. Fraser Reed, Mr. Andy Barlow, Ms Celia Ennis, Jeff Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Reed, Mr. Jamie Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Farrelly, Paul Kidney, Mr. David Reid, rh John Battle, rh John Fisher, Mark Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Riordan, Mrs. Linda Bayley, Hugh Fitzpatrick, Jim Knight, rh Jim Robertson, John Beckett, rh Margaret Flello, Mr. Robert Kumar, Dr. Ashok Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey Begg, Miss Anne Flint, rh Caroline Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Rooney, Mr. Terry Bell, Sir Stuart Flynn, Paul Lammy, rh Mr. David Roy, Lindsay Benn, rh Hilary Follett, Barbara Laxton, Mr. Bob Ruane, Chris Benton, Mr. Joe Foster, Mr. Michael Lepper, David Ruddock, Joan Berry, Roger (Worcester) Levitt, Tom Russell, Christine Betts, Mr. Clive Foster, Michael Jabez Lewis, Mr. Ivan Ryan, rh Joan Blackman, Liz (Hastings and Rye) Linton, Martin Salter, Martin Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta Francis, Dr. Hywel Lloyd, Tony Seabeck, Alison Blears, rh Hazel Gapes, Mike Love, Mr. Andrew Sharma, Mr. Virendra Blizzard, Mr. Bob Gardiner, Barry Lucas, Ian Shaw, Jonathan Borrow, Mr. David S. George, rh Mr. Bruce Mackinlay, Andrew Sheerman, Mr. Barry Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Gerrard, Mr. Neil MacShane, rh Mr. Denis Sheridan, Jim Brennan, Kevin Gilroy, Linda Mactaggart, Fiona Simon, Mr. Siôn Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Godsiff, Mr. Roger Malik, Mr. Shahid Singh, Mr. Marsha Brown, Mr. Russell Goggins, rh Paul Mallaber, Judy Skinner, Mr. Dennis Bryant, Chris Goodman, Helen Mann, John Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Burden, Richard Griffith, Nia Marris, Rob Smith, Ms Angela C. Burgon, Colin Griffiths, Nigel Marsden, Mr. Gordon (Sheffield, Hillsborough) Burnham, rh Andy Grogan, Mr. John Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon) Butler, Ms Dawn Gwynne, Andrew McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Smith, Geraldine Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Hain, rh Mr. Peter McCabe, Steve Smith, rh Jacqui Caborn, rh Mr. Richard Hall, Mr. Mike McCafferty, Chris Snelgrove, Anne Cairns, David Hall, Patrick McCarthy, Kerry Soulsby, Sir Peter Campbell, Mr. Alan Hamilton, Mr. David McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Southworth, Helen Campbell, Mr. Ronnie Hamilton, Mr. Fabian McCrea, Dr. William Spellar, rh Mr. John Caton, Mr. Martin Hanson, rh Mr. David McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Starkey, Dr. Phyllis Cawsey, Mr. Ian Harman, rh Ms Harriet McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Stewart, Ian Challen, Colin Havard, Mr. Dai McKechin, Ann Stoate, Dr. Howard Chapman, Ben Healey, rh John McKenna, Rosemary Straw, rh Mr. Jack Clapham, Mr. Michael Henderson, Mr. Doug McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Stringer, Graham Clark, Ms Katy Hendrick, Mr. Mark Meacher, rh Mr. Michael Stuart, Ms Gisela Clark, Paul Hepburn, Mr. Stephen Merron, Gillian Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Hesford, Stephen Michael, rh Alun Tami, Mark Clarke,rhMr.Tom Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia Miller, Andrew Taylor, Ms Dari Clelland, Mr. David Heyes, David Moffatt, Laura Taylor, David Coaker, Mr. Vernon Hill, rh Keith Mole, Chris Thomas, Mr. Gareth Coffey, Ann Hodge, rh Margaret Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Connarty, Michael Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon Morden, Jessica Tipping, Paddy Cooper, Rosie Hood, Mr. Jim Morgan, Julie Todd, Mr. Mark Cooper, rh Yvette Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey Morley, rh Mr. Elliot Touhig, rh Mr. Don Cousins, Jim Hope, Phil Mountford, Kali Trickett, Jon Crausby, Mr. David Hopkins, Kelvin Mudie, Mr. George Truswell, Mr. Paul Creagh, Mary Howarth, rh Mr. George Mullin, Mr. Chris Turner, Dr. Desmond Cruddas, Jon Howells, rh Dr. Kim Munn, Meg Turner, Mr. Neil Cryer, Mrs. Ann Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay Murphy, Mr. Denis Twigg, Derek Cummings, John Humble, Mrs. Joan Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Ussher, Kitty Cunningham, Mr. Jim Hutton, rh Mr. John Murphy, rh Mr. Paul Vis, Dr. Rudi Cunningham, Tony Iddon, Dr. Brian Naysmith, Dr. Doug Walley, Joan David, Mr. Wayne Illsley, Mr. Eric Norris, Dan Waltho, Lynda Davies, Mr. Quentin Ingram, rh Mr. Adam O’Hara, Mr. Edward Ward, Claire 129 Coroners and Justice Bill 9 NOVEMBER 2009 130

Watson, Mr. Tom Winnick, Mr. David Question agreed to. Watts, Mr. Dave Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Committee to withdraw immediately; reasons to be Wright, David Whitehead, Dr. Alan reported and communicated to the Lords. Wicks, rh Malcolm Wright, Dr. Tony Williams, rh Mr. Alan Wyatt, Derek Williams, Mrs. Betty Tellers for the Ayes: Business without Debate Wills, rh Mr. Michael Mr. John Heppell and Wilson, Phil Lyn Brown SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE NOES Ordered, That— Baker, Norman Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Barrett, John Lamb, Norman (1) at the sittings on Wednesday 11 and Thursday 12 November, Beith, rh Sir Alan Laws, Mr. David the Speaker shall not adjourn the House until any Message from the Lords has been received and any Committee to draw up Bottomley, Peter Leech, Mr. John Brake, Tom Reasons which has been appointed at that sitting has reported; Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn and Breed, Mr. Colin Mason, John (2) at the sitting on Thursday 12 November, the Speaker shall Brooke, Annette McDonnell, John Browne, Mr. Jeremy not adjourn the House, if a Message from the Lords Commissioners Mulholland, Greg is expected, until that Message has been received.—(Mary Creagh.) Bruce, rh Malcolm Pelling, Mr. Andrew Burstow, Mr. Paul Price, Adam Burt, Lorely Pugh, Dr. John DELEGATED LEGISLATION Cable, Dr. Vincent Reid, Mr. Alan Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Rennie, Willie Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Carmichael, Mr. Alistair Order No. 118 (6)), Corbyn, Jeremy Rogerson, Dan Davey, Mr. Edward Rowen, Paul SECURITY INDUSTRY Davies, Mr. Dai Russell, Bob Durkan, Mark Sanders, Mr. Adrian That the draft Private Security Industry Act 2001 (Amendment) Featherstone, Lynne Spink, Bob (Northern Ireland) Order 2009, which was laid before this House Foster, Mr. Don Stunell, Andrew on 21 July, be approved.—( Mary Creagh.) George, Andrew Swinson, Jo Question agreed to. Gidley, Sandra Taylor, Dr. Richard Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Goldsworthy, Julia Teather, Sarah Order No. 118 (6)), Hancock, Mr. Mike Thurso, John Harris, Dr. Evan Webb, Steve SECURITY INDUSTRY Harvey, Nick Williams, Hywel Heath, Mr. David Williams, Mark That the draft Private Security Industry Act 2001 (Amendments Hemming, John Williams, Mr. Roger to Schedule 2) Order 2009, which was laid before this House on 12 October, be approved.—( Mary Creagh.) Hollobone, Mr. Philip Williams, Stephen Holmes, Paul Willis, Mr. Phil Question agreed to. Horwood, Martin Wishart, Pete Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Howarth, David Younger-Ross, Richard Hughes, Simon Order No. 118 (6)), Huhne, Chris Tellers for the Noes: Hunter, Mark Sir Robert Smith and BANKS AND BANKING Keetch, Mr. Paul Jenny Willott That the draft Scottish and Northern Ireland Banknote Regulations 2009, which were laid before this House on 13 October, be Question accordingly agreed to. approved.—( Mary Creagh.) Lords amendment 66 disagreed to. Question agreed to. Government amendment (a) made in lieu of Lords Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing amendment 66. Order No. 118 (6)), Lords amendments 3 to 54, 56 to 58, 60 to 65, 67 to 118, 120, 122 to 215, 217 to 235, 237, 238 and 240 to 244 FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE FOR INDUSTRY agreed to, with Commons privileges waived in respect That this House authorises the Secretary of State to undertake of Lords amendments 12, 14, 28, 54, 131, 145, 149, 150 to pay, and to pay by way of financial assistance under section 8 and 185. of the Industrial Development Act 1982, in respect of the UK Innovation Fund, sums exceeding £10 million and up to a cumulative Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing total of £150 million.—( Mary Creagh.) Order No. 83H), That a Committee be appointed to Question agreed to. draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their amendments 1, 2, 55, 59, 119, 121, 216, 236 Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing and 239; Order No. 118 (6)), That Mr. Bellingham, Mr. Mike Hall, David Howarth, Helen Jones and Bridget Prentice be members of the FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE FOR INDUSTRY Committee; That this House authorises the Secretary of State to undertake to pay, and to pay by way of financial assistance under section 8 That Bridget Prentice be the Chairman of the Committee; of the Industrial Development Act 1982, in respect of the Car That three be the quorum of the Committee. Scrappage Scheme, an additional sum of up to £100 million.—(Mary That the Committee do withdraw immediately.—(Mary Creagh.) Creagh.) Question agreed to. 131 Business without Debate9 NOVEMBER 2009 Business without Debate 132

REGIONAL SELECT COMMITTEE PETITION (WEST MIDLANDS) Resumption of adjourned debate on Question Equitable Life (Northavon) (2 November), That Mr David Kidney be discharged from the West Midlands Regional Select Committee and Mrs Janet Dean be added. 10.23 pm Hon. Members: Object. Steve Webb (Northavon) (LD): This petition relates Debate to be resumed tomorrow. to the Government’s response to the parliamentary ombudsman’s report on Equitable Life. The petitioners REGIONAL SELECT COMMITTEE are policyholders, their survivors and their supporters. (SOUTH WEST) The policyholders have suffered maladministration leading Resumption of adjourned debate on Question to injustice, as found by the parliamentary ombudsman (29 October), in her July 2008 report. Furthermore, they and those That Linda Gilroy be discharged from the South West Regional whom they represent have suffered regulatory failure on Select Committee and Roger Berry be added. the part of the public bodies responsible from 1992 Hon. Members: Object. onwards, but have not received compensation for the resulting losses and outrage. Debate to be resumed tomorrow. The petition states: TAX LAW REWRITE BILLS The Petition of residents of the constituency of Northavon in (JOINT COMMITTEE) South Gloucestershire, Ordered, Declares that the petitioners either are or they represent or That Mr be discharged from the Joint Committee support members, former members or personal representatives of on Tax Law Rewrite Bills and Mr be added.— deceased members of the Equitable Life Assurance Society who (Rosemary McKenna, on behalf of the Committee of Selection.) have suffered maladministration leading to injustice, as found by the Parliamentary Ombudsman in her report upon Equitable TRANSPORT Life, ordered by the House of Commons to be printed on 16 July Ordered, 2008 and bearing reference number HC 815; and further declares that the petitioners or those whom they represent or support have That Sammy Wilson be discharged from the Transport Committee suffered regulatory failure on the part of the public bodies and Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson be added.—(Rosemary McKenna, responsible from the year 1992 onwards, but have not received on behalf of the Committee of Selection.) compensation for the resulting losses and outrage. STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons (JOINT COMMITTEE) urge the Government to uphold the constitutional standing of the Parliamentary Ombudsman by complying with the findings and Ordered, recommendations of her Report upon Equitable Life. That David Simpson be discharged from the Joint Committee And the Petitioners remain, etc. on Statutory Instruments and Mr Nigel Dodds be added.—(Rosemary McKenna, on behalf of the Committee of Selection.) [P000409] 133 9 NOVEMBER 2009 Mental Health Services 134

Mental Health Services ensure that they get excellent respite care, so that they can continue their excellent work on behalf of those Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House whom they love. do now adjourn.—(Mary Creagh.) I also accept that we are closing beds for the best of reasons, but the truth is that for every three beds that close in hospital wards that do not deal with mental 10.24 pm health, six close in mental health wards. I am not going Mr. Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con): Thank you to stand here tonight and argue that mental health for calling me this evening for the Adjournment debate, wards are particularly nice places to be. In truth, many Mr. Speaker. It is a great honour for me to speak are not and in fact I have never met anyone who looks tonight on mental health. forward to going into hospital. Mental health wards are important, however, and they do fulfil a need. Earlier today, I visited a unit delivering mental health services to my constituents in Hertfordshire. It was a There are problems with existing mental health wards, fantastic and enlightening visit. I met a wonderful lady as I have touched on. About 20 per cent. of patients feel called Sally Pegrum, a nurse who has been in the NHS physically threatened in them, while a further 50 per for 34 years delivering services to mental health sufferers. cent. feel threatened at times. A mental health ward is She trained at 17 and became a mental health nurse at three times more likely to be assessed as being unsatisfactory 18. She is still only in her early 50s, so I hope that we than a ward treating people with heart disease or cancer, will have another eight years of her excellent service. for example. Unfortunately, as my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest, East (Dr. Lewis) knows, such I asked Sally what changes she had seen in her wards are too often located a long way from people’s 34 years of service, and she said that the delivery of homes. mental health services to the most ill in our society has changed out of all recognition. That is a credit to Dr. Julian Lewis (New Forest, East) (Con): I know a previous Governments and to this Government. When cue when I hear one. Not for the first time, my hon. she started 34 years ago, she worked in an institution—and Friend makes a remarkably eloquent case on the plight in those days, they were institutions—where she discovered of the mentally ill. I was delighted that the brand-new a woman in her 70s who had been there for 60 years for Woodhaven hospital was built and opened in the past committing the crime of having a child out of wedlock few years in my constituency. One reason why its acute in her early teens. This is recent history—it was not the ward is not a threatening place to be is that it has turn of the century but 34 years ago. Let me start by alongside it a psychiatric intensive care unit, so that if saying, then, that things have moved a long way in the people get into a threatening state, they can be looked past 34 years. after there—except for the fact that that unit has been temporarily closed and might never reopen. Does my I fully support the idea behind keeping ill people in hon. Friend agree that to lose a psychiatric intensive the community and in intermediate care wherever possible. care unit, which functions as a complement to an acute We have crisis resolution teams working towards that ward, is to make things worse not only for the people in aim. The truth is, however, that the reality of crisis need of the intensive care beds, but for those who need resolution teams does not always match the ambition to go from the acute ward, at short notice, into intensive we have set for them. Such teams are often overworked. care, and who will now be sent, as he says, a long They have very large case loads, which makes it difficult way away? for the professionals comprising them to give mental health patients the attention they deserve. Mr. Walker: My hon. Friend makes a valuable point. There is often a shortage of intermediate and crisis It is no coincidence that today I visited a PICU—as housing, so even if we want to keep mental health they are called—an outstanding facility that aids the patients in the community or near their homes, there recovery of some of the illest in our society. I wish my are not the facilities to do so. I fully appreciate that hon. Friend the best of luck in his campaign, and I hope efforts are being made to bring this up to speed, but at that the primary care trust reconsiders its position. the moment, those facilities do not exist in many places. Hertfordshire has an excellent, brand-new facility, which aids recovery. More worryingly or as worryingly, emergency telephone I am not in favour of keeping acute wards open for numbers that are meant to operate 24 hours a day are the sake of it. However, we must accept that there is a often not manned in the evenings and at the weekend. If danger of closing wards before the facilities are available someone is having a mental health crisis, it does not in the community to pick up the slack and the patient always happen in business hours or during weekdays. load. The truth is that in most acute wards, occupancy We need these telephone lines to be staffed 24 hours a rarely stands at 85 per cent. In most cases, it is far day to meet the cries for help. It is also the case that nearer 100 per cent., averaging 98 to 99 per cent., and before being admitted to an acute unit with beds, mental can go as high as 125 per cent. when one counts people health patients are expected to get assessed by these on leave who are trying to rehabilitate themselves into crisis teams, but in 50 per cent. of cases that is not the community at an intermediate stage, but with the happening. Again, we need to address this flaw in the option of a bed remaining open if they have a crisis system. during that process. My final plea is on behalf of carers of people who are As I am sure the Minister is aware, the pressure on mentally ill. I have met many carers who look after such beds creates problems. When a higher threshold people who are extremely ill, and without their help the for admittance applies, such acute beds have a higher full burden would fall on the NHS and the taxpayer. concentration of seriously ill patients. Staff numbers do We, as a civilised society, need to look after the mental not always reflect that situation. The overall number of and physical health of these carers, and we need to patients might be the same, but their health needs are 135 Mental Health Services9 NOVEMBER 2009 Mental Health Services 136

[Mr. Walker] I have been speaking for 13 minutes, so I will start to wind up my speech. Being mentally ill is not a punishment. far greater because the admittance threshold is raised. If someone has cancer or heart disease, that is not a Therefore, more staff need to be in place, because too punishment, but too often being mentally ill becomes a often they feel that they are managing patients, as punishment, and it should not. We should show the opposed to treating and making them better, which is same warmth and compassion to people with mental what mental health staff want to do. illness as we show to people with any other disease. I mentioned the issue of leave: many patients leave It is not going to happen, but if I were Prime Minister acute mental hospitals to have a couple of days in an this would be my manifesto. We want appropriate, intermediate setting to help them to integrate back into well-resourced community services: the very best services their community. However, many patients are frightened possible, which meet the needs of our constituents, help to go on leave because they fear that if they have a crisis them to get well, and give them the reassurance they they will never get back into hospital, as the demand for need that the community is ready to embrace them. We their bed becomes so pressing while they are on leave need acute beds in modern buildings that promote that it is given up. Psychiatrists report anecdotally a wellness and recovery. My local trust, Hertfordshire greater pressure to discharge patients early, which results mental health trust, makes no bones about the fact that in far higher rates of readmission. Also—I hope the its acute wards need to be made a lot better. I visited the Minister does not think that I am arguing against PICU today, and it is fantastically modern. It aids myself—bed blocking can occur, because the patient is recovery, and we must ensure that our hospital beds aid at a stage at which they can be moved on, but the recovery. intermediate services between them and the community We need wards that are safe and clean. The mentally are not in place to take them on board. I notice my hon. ill do not deserve second best. There should be the same Friend the Member for New Forest, East getting restless, focus on cleanliness in mental health wards as there is in and I will allow him to intervene again. any other ward. We also need wards that are age and sex-appropriate. I know that the Minister has personally Dr. Lewis: I promise that this will be my last intervention. made enormous strides during his tenure in ensuring I had not intended to make it, but as my hon. Friend that children do not end up on adult mental health has referred to rehabilitation in intermediate stages, I wards. Nevertheless, about 400 children a year do end must draw attention to the fact that Crowlin house—a up on adult mental health wards, and as we all know, state-of-the-art rehabilitation centre in Totton, in my that number is too high and must be reduced. We also constituency—is threatened with closure. It has been need to ensure that we do not have mixed-sex mental reprieved for the moment because no places have been health wards. Again, we need to ensure that patients feel found for residents to be sent in the meantime, but once safe and secure. again, exactly the scenario that my hon. Friend is describing in theory is developing in practice in my Hampshire Finally, we need to ensure that mental health staff are constituency. properly rewarded and motivated. I want an NHS that is full of Sally Pegrums. I want an NHS full of people Mr. Walker: As the Minister knows, such intermediate who have given 30-plus years to something that they services are critical. The closure of wards works only love. Working with the mentally ill means working in is when there are good intermediate services that ease a hugely difficult environment, and it is hugely demanding. patients’ return to the community. Sally has been assaulted verbally and physically on a One of my concerns about the additional pressure number of occasions, but she still cares passionately being placed on acute wards relates to staff turnover. If about her patients because she knows that they are ill. staff no longer feel that they are in control of the We need to reward such people, not just with gratitude situation—if they feel under intolerable pressure—they but by ensuring that the job allows them to earn a are tempted to move on, and many staff who are living. experienced in hospital settings are now moving to This is not a party political issue. Regardless of which crisis management teams. That is no bad thing, because party wins the next general election, mental health must they bring their experience with them, but we need be at the top of the list. It has been at the back of the equality of service. We need excellent people in the queue for far too long. Successive Governments have community, but we need excellent people in our hospitals brought it forward, and this Government have done as well. very good things—I do not deny that—but we need to I never thought that in my parliamentary career, I make sure that it remains at the top of the list and would talk about a balanced score card—it sounds very pushes to the head of the queue. We face difficult exciting and new—but I think we need one in this in the years ahead. NHS budgets will instance. When we are, rightly, closing hospital beds come under pressure, but too often the first budget to and reducing a hospital ward’s capacity from 22 to 16, come under pressure is the mental health budget. In as is suggested by best practice, we should have that future, it must be the last to come under pressure. balanced score card. We should ensure, before the closures I would like to thank the Royal College of Psychiatrists. happen, that there are community facilities to take the I would also like to thank Rethink and Mind for briefing increased load that will be moved back into the community. me this evening, and Hertfordshire Viewpoint and the We should ensure that we have the intermediate beds, Hertfordshire mental health trust. I thank the Minister, the safe houses and the respite care for carers that will too, with whom I have had a great relationship during make the transition work. We in this place want to be his time as Minister with responsibility for mental health. confident that the system works. We want to be confident I may not face him across this Chamber again, and in that our constituents are being given the very best care, case he does not return to this place after the next and that applies across the House this evening. election, I would like to say that he has made a fantastic 137 Mental Health Services9 NOVEMBER 2009 Mental Health Services 138 contribution to the cause of mental health, and I hope description of the unit that he visited, and I join him in that if he leaves this place he will continue to give that his comments. The hon. Member for New Forest, East area the benefit of his expertise. I thank him for everything (Dr. Lewis) also described excellent work by staff in he has done. these units, which are a key part of the mental health landscape. I am committed to continuing to raise standards and to improving the facilities available for in-patients 10.41 pm into the future. The Minister of State, Department of Health (Phil The hon. Member for Broxbourne will know that Hope): I congratulate the hon. Member for Broxbourne since 2006 the Government have put £130 million into (Mr. Walker) on securing the debate. I know that he has improving those psychiatric in-patient facilities—these a very keen interest in this issue, stretching back to the PICUs—and acute in-patient wards. He may be interested work he did on the Mental Health Bill Committee two to learn—he made a specific reference to this—that years ago. I also thank him very much for his extraordinarily about £30 million of that money is being used specifically generous remarks. If he were to sit on my side of the to improve safety for women in-patients. That sits alongside House, I would have no doubt he could be an excellent our broader efforts to eliminate mixed-sex accommodation candidate for the highest ministerial office in the land, in these facilities and to ensure that every patient’s but we will see how things progress in the years to come; dignity is fully respected. I shall watch his career with interest. Mental health was once a forgotten service, which I am pleased to say that we know that patients think was poorly funded, highly reactive and focused on highly of the care that they receive in these units. Earlier institutionalised care to support only those with the this year, a Care Quality Commission survey of more most severe illnesses. There were welcome, if rather than 7,000 recent in-patients found that nearly three flawed, attempts to transfer more mental health services quarters rated their care as good or better. That is a into the community throughout the 1980s and 1990s, strong vote of confidence in the quality of acute services, but it was the national service framework, established but the question that the hon. Gentleman has really by the Government 10 years ago, that really moved raised before the House tonight has been that of capacity: mental health into a different place. It did this by are there are enough in-patient beds to meet demand? I expanding community services and developing a more shall now address that key question. proactive, preventive and personalised approach to treating The essential point is that not everyone needs care in people with severe mental illness. a psychiatric bed, even in an emergency. Admitting As a result of the framework, and the £2 billion someone to hospital when they are in crisis is a decision real-terms increase in mental health spending since that nobody takes lightly. As the hon. Gentleman knows, 2002—there have been nine consecutive years of increased a judgment has to be made on whether hospital admission spending—we now have 67 per cent. more consultant is the only way to get a person the treatment they need psychiatrists, 79 per cent. more clinical psychologists at that moment to avoid the risk of harm to themselves and at least 23 per cent. more mental health nurses than or others. I have indicated, as he has done, that there are in 1997. Crisis resolution and home treatment teams, now strong alternatives to in-patient care, including and assertive outreach workers and early intervention community mental health teams, new models of practice, teams are now helping more people with serious mental more robust care pathways, and supported accommodation illness to manage their condition in the community. or respite care in ordinary settings. I am pleased, as I am sure he is, that we are reducing demand for in-patient I would also like to place on record my thanks to the psychiatric care. For example, there were some 118,000 carers, whom the hon. Gentleman mentioned in his episodes of treatment last year for people who would remarks. The carers strategy, which we published last otherwise have been admitted to hospital. year, placed extra resources in primary care trust baseline budgets. I have recently met carers’ organisations, which So although the national picture is one of falling are keen to make sure that that money is spent in the mental health bed numbers, occupancy rates—I heard community on services such as respite care for those what the hon. Gentleman had to say about those and I people who are doing such an important and invaluable understand the point he is making—have remained job in helping to deliver support and care in the community. steady over several years, which indicates provision The improving access to psychological therapies against demand is on an even keel. I understand, of programme has increased access to talking therapies to course, that in a particular locality these decisions, more people with lower level mental health needs, again which are a matter for the local primary care trust and helping to address problems before they escalate. I agree health trust providers, are a matter for local balance with the hon. Gentleman, and the nurse to whom he and local decision making. The balance between in-patient referred, that mental health services have changed beyond services, intermediate settings and community services all recognition. That verdict of improvement has also is a matter for local determination. That has to be based been reached by the World Health Organisation. It has on those local health organisations’ determinations, on said that England now has some of the best mental the basis of their consideration of what is needed locally health services in Europe. We want to maintain those and what units are available locally. We have had a high standards and keep mental health services at the debate in Westminster Hall on the particular issues that forefront of a preventive NHS. the hon. Member for New Forest, East mentioned. I know that he has met his local trust representatives, and Even with stronger prevention, about one in 10 of that the hon. Member for Broxbourne has done the those who receive specialist mental health care each same, to examine in detail the local situation. year are admitted as in-patients, so the hon. Gentleman is right to say that in-patient facilities remain an important part of the jigsaw of services. He gave an excellent Dr. Julian Lewis rose— 139 Mental Health Services9 NOVEMBER 2009 Mental Health Services 140

Phil Hope: Iamhappytogiveway,butIdonothave I believe that the hon. Gentleman has not changed that much time available. his view from what he said two years ago when we discussed the Mental Health Bill. He said that we Dr. Lewis: I just say to the Minister that Hampshire needed to care about the welfare of people who are county council’s health overview and scrutiny committee mentally ill—he has repeated that this evening— and chairman is as alarmed as I am at the proposal to close about alleviating their troubles and ensuring that they the PICU and the intermediate beds in the rehabilitation are treated in ways that best meet their needs as ill centre. What can the Minister do if that committee, the people and as patients. That was an enlightened view local Member and the experts all say that the foundation two years ago; he has repeated it this evening and I trust is getting it wrong? know that he stands by it. As community services improve and we can offer Phil Hope: I do not want to repeat the debate that we more support outside the hospital, then the need for had in another Adjournment debate on another occasion. in-patient provision will change. It is only right then to The truth is that these PICU beds are assessed on the review the size and location of that provision and local needs by the trust and the clinical leaders of that achieve the right balance between in-patient and community trust. It must be for local determination to achieve the services to meet local needs. That is what is happening balance between acute beds, community services and in many parts of the country.As we have heard, discussions intermediate services. The important thing is that there are under way on what may seem on the surface to be needs to be spare capacity to cater for acute admissions, difficult, perhaps controversial, decisions. We need to as and when they arise—that point was made by the have a sensible debate, as we have had tonight. We do hon. Member for Broxbourne. not want to go backwards or to scare people, but we The truth is that we are simply getting better at need to talk openly about the issues. treating people effectively in the community. That is On the question of mental health services in what people say they prefer, and what experts say provides Hertfordshire, we know that the Hertfordshire Partnership better long-term outcomes for them. This is something NHS Foundation Trust has over the past six months to celebrate, not criticise—not that I believe that the reduced its average bed occupancy by improving its hon. Gentleman was doing so. crisis resolution services. I listened carefully to what the There will always be people who need to be admitted, hon. Gentleman said about staffing and the demand for so we have to arrive at the right blend of community such services, and the trust is now working with and in-patient services. I want to counter any impression commissioners to look at other alternatives to in-patient that might be left that the decline in bed numbers, which care, including an acute day treatment unit, crisis beds we welcome, has meant that some patients were being and host family arrangements. It has assured the strategic forced out of in-patient units before they were ready. health authority that pilots will take place before it Let me say this straight off: just as admitting someone is reduces any bed numbers—in effect, it will “double subject to very careful scrutiny, so is discharging them run”community and in-patient services until it is confident back into the community. that no patients will lose out from a reduction in bed numbers. In conclusion, mental health services must Decisions about discharge are always made on clinical continue to evolve and continue to improve if we want grounds, after full discussion with the patient and taking to give more people the best chance of recovery. The into account any community support that can be offered. sun is setting on the national service framework but we So, decisions are not driven by bed numbers or targets; can look forward to an even brighter future for mental the safety of the patient is the only concern. However, health services through a new programme of work as the hon. Gentleman has said, the debate is a little called “New Horizons”. We are considering more than more complex than in-patient care versus community-based 1,000 consultation responses on our new mental health care. There is not such a clear divide. Community strategy, which will deepen our commitment to preventing services frequently work hand-in-hand with in-patient mental illness and to treating people in the home and in units to give patients intensive support after their discharge. the community as much as possible. The introduction of supervised community treatment in the Mental Health Act 2007 gives clinicians added Question put and agreed to. reassurance that if someone disengages from their treatment or from services, or if their condition deteriorates, they 10.53 pm can immediately be recalled and treated as an in-patient. House adjourned. 1WS Written Ministerial Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 2WS Written Ministerial Corporate Taxation

Statements The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen Timms): I am today announcing the Government’s intention to introduce in the next Finance Bill a further change to Monday 9 November 2009 the rules on how groups of companies are taxed when they buy back their issued debt at a discount to the TREASURY amount borrowed. The further change is in addition to the changes I previously announced in my statement on ECOFIN 14 October. In my statement on 14 October, I announced that the The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Alistair Darling): Government proposed to deal with the circumstances in The Economic and Financial Affairs Council will be which companies could buy back their debt at a discount held in Brussels on 10 November 2009. The following to the amount borrowed without being taxed. I announced items are on the agenda: changes that would tighten the rules dealing with debt Follow-up to the October European Council buybacks to ensure that only those debt buybacks that are undertaken as part of genuine corporate rescues will The presidency will provide a de-brief following the benefit from discount not being subject to tax. meeting of the European Council in Brussels at the end of October. This should focus on work to be taken The statement made clear that even if a company forward by ECOFIN on financial supervision, fiscal benefited from the discount not being taxed under the and financial exit strategies, crisis management and the new proposals, any subsequent cancellation of the debt successor to the Lisbon strategy. by the new creditor will result in the debtor being taxed Follow-up to the G20 meeting on 6 and 7 November on the previously untaxed discount. The presidency and the UK will provide a de-brief on HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) published more the meeting of G20 Finance Ministers and Central detail on these proposals on 22 October, available at: Bank Governors in St. Andrews. www.hmrc.gov.uk/drafts/debt-buyback.htm, which clarified Sustainability of public finances the circumstances in which the discount on the debt buyback would not be taxed and the mechanism by Ministers will discuss next steps following the publication which a subsequent release of such a debt would result of the Commission’s sustainability report. The Government in the debtor being taxed on the discount. recognise the importance of sustainable public finances, and are committed to the consolidation path set out in It has since come to light that groups of companies Budget 2009. may be able to avoid the discount, that was not taxed at Better regulation—Reduction of administrative burdens the time of the buyback, being taxed on the subsequent release of the debt. Groups may be able to achieve this Ministers will discuss and agree conclusions on a by means of the new creditor accepting ordinary shares Commission action programme, calling for more work in the debtor in order to release the debtor from its to reduce administrative burdens by 25 per cent. by liability. 2012. The Government support progress in this area and have pledged their own commitment to meet the The Government are therefore proposing to introduce 25 per cent. reduction target by 2010. additional legislation to prevent this. The new legislation Taxation will ensure that where the discount on a buyback is not taxed, any subsequent release of the debt where the a) Proposal for a Council directive on administrative consideration for the release is ordinary shares in the debtor co-operation in the field of taxation or the entitlement to any such shares then the debtor The Council will be asked to agree a general approach will be taxed on the previously untaxed discount arising on the directive, which improves exchange of information on the debt buyback. and brings the EU into line with OECD standards by removing the right to refuse information on grounds of The further legislation announced today will have bank secrecy. The UK supports the proposal and further effect in relation to releases of debt that occur on or work in this area, which links to the wider G20 agenda after today in relation to any debt that was the subject on good governance in taxation. of a debt buyback occurring on or after 14 October and to which the proposed legislation announced on 14 October b) VAT treatment of postal services will apply. ECOFIN will be asked to provide political guidelines on how to take further the issue of the VAT treatment Draft legislation will today be published on HMRC’s of postal services. website covering both the 14 October and today’s announcements. c) Proposal for a Council directive amending Directives 92/79/EEC, 92/80/EEC and 95/59/EC on the structure I am also today announcing the Government’s intention and rates of excise duty applied on manufactured tobacco to present to Parliament in the next Finance Bill The Council will be asked to reach a political agreement amendments to the “debt cap” provisions set out in on the tobacco directive, which will set out the structure Schedule 15 of Finance Act 2009. and rates of excise duties applied on manufactured The debt cap forms part of the important reforms to tobacco products as well as implementation dates. The the taxation of the foreign profits of UK companies, UK supports work in this area, which has the potential which the Government introduced in Finance Bill 2009. to reduce revenue lost from cross-border shopping and The cornerstone of the foreign profits package was the smuggling of tobacco products into the UK from low wide-ranging dividend exemption, effective from July tax EU member states. this year, which was strongly welcomed by business. 3WS Written Ministerial Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 4WS

This allows UK companies to bring profits back to the A new power will be introduced to allow the definitions of the UK free of UK tax. To make the dividend exemption available amount and the tested expense amount to be changed affordable, the Government worked closely with business or added to through secondary legislation. Regulations made to introduce a debt cap guarding against excessive debt under this power will be capable of having effect from 1 January of the calendar year in which they are made. This will ensure funding of UK companies, which will be effective from that difficulties arising where the accounting treatment for 1 January 2010. external borrowing in the consolidated accounts differs from The amendments announced today will ensure that that in a UK company’s individual accounts can be addressed the debt cap functions as intended, providing Exchequer through regulations. revenue protection while at the same time keeping the A technical paper providing further details of all of compliance burden as small as possible. Specifically, these changes is being issued on HMRC’s website today. there will be the following amendments made: Draft legislative amendments will be published alongside Legislation will be introduced to remove accountancy mismatches the 2009 Pre-Budget report for comment. in the application of the gateway test to ensure that a consistent way of measuring liabilities is used in arriving both at the Monetary Policy Committee worldwide group’s gross debt and the net debt of UK companies. Legislation will be introduced to put beyond doubt that preference The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Sarah shares are excluded from the relevant liabilities both of the McCarthy-Fry): A Treasury minute on the contingent worldwide group and of UK companies when applying the gateway test. liabilities arising from the extension of the Asset Purchase Facility is being published today. Copies are available in Legislation will be introduced to extend the definition of “financial instrument” to include all derivatives, such as options, the Library of the House. swaps, futures, forwards and contracts for differences. This is because the current definition, which relies on the FSA handbook, BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS may exclude certain derivatives which are routinely traded by many banks and other financial institutions. The change will ensure that groups are not disqualified from the “qualifying Higher Education Funding and Student Finance financial services groups” exemption because they undertake (Review) such dealings. Legislation will be introduced allowing companies to elect that The Minister for Higher Education and Intellectual no debt cap disallowance is allocated to them. This will benefit Property (Mr. David Lammy): My noble Friend the companies, such as those involved in whole business securitisations, Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills that need certainty of tax treatment in order to protect their credit ratings. This legislation will also mandatorily restrict the has today made the following statement: allocation of disallowances to dual resident investment companies. Today I have appointed Lord Browne of Madingley to chair an independent review of higher education funding and student Legislation will be introduced to extend the definition of finance. In addition to Lord Browne, the review will have six other “financing income”, so that guarantee fees are included as members chosen for the breadth and depth of their experience financing income. This provides consistency of treatment where and expertise. These are Michael Barber, Diane Coyle, David guarantee fees are paid within a group, or are deemed to be Eastwood, Julia King, Rajay Naik and Peter Sands. I have paid under transfer pricing legislation, since a guarantee fee is discussed these appointments and the terms of reference for the already treated as a financing expense of the payer. review, set out below, with the hon. Member for Havant (Mr. Willetts). Legislation will be introduced to refine the definition of a We are both committed to ensuring the independent nature of group treasury company for the purposes of the debt cap rules this important piece of work. the review fulfils the commitment so as to exclude trading companies performing a peripheral made by the Government during the Commons stages of the group treasury company function. Higher Education Act 2004 to review the operation of variable Legislation will allow interest paid by UK subsidiaries of tuition fees after these had been in force for three years. tax-exempt non-departmental public bodies to disregard interest Variable tuition fees have provided institutions with a secure they pay to that body for debt cap purposes. income stream worth £1.3 billion per year, which has helped to sustain the long-term financial health and viability of this crucially Legislation will be introduced to clarify what is meant by important sector. Over this time, the number of students attending “ancillary costs” relating to amounts borrowed, for the purpose university has continued to rise, as has the number coming from of computing the available amount. lower-income backgrounds. Legislation will be introduced to deal with the case where To continue to thrive in the coming decade, institutions will external borrowing is undertaken by a partnership in which a need to respond to the changing needs of students, businesses and UK company is a partner. This will ensure that the available the wider community as well as adapt to demographic changes amount reflects the economic cost to the group of borrowing and growing international competition. by partnerships in which it has an interest, and is computed in The independent review will consider the balance of contributions a way consistent with the UK tax treatment of partnership from all those who benefit from the higher education system. It debts. will consult with all those with an interest in higher education in Legislation will be introduced to ensure that certain partnerships, this country, including current and potential students. The review formed under the laws of an overseas territory, qualify for the will also convene an advisory forum to draw on the views and collective investment scheme exclusion for the purposes of expertise of a range of representatives with interests in higher identifying an ultimate parent company under the debt cap education. rules. Where an overseas corporate fund vehicle has a majority The review will report to Government with recommendations stake in a number of commercially unrelated groups of companies, next year. Any changes implemented following the review would this will minimise the possibility of all of its controlled holdings come into effect in the academic year 2011-12 at the earliest. being treated as a single group for debt cap purposes. TERMS OF REFERENCE Legislation will be introduced to ensure that securitisation “The review will analyse the challenges and opportunities companies, which come within the special tax regimes we introduced in 2005, are excluded from the debt cap rules. This facing higher education and their implications for student will ensure that the “tax-neutral” status of these companies is financing and support. It will examine the balance of not jeopardised and will avoid any adverse effect on their credit contributions to higher education funding by taxpayers, ratings. students, graduates and employers. Its primary task is 5WS Written Ministerial Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 6WS to make recommendations to Government on the future Given the ongoing threat faced by our forces and the of fees policy and financial support for full and part-time local Afghan population, this information is critical, undergraduate and postgraduate students”. and in some cases 96 hours will not be long enough to Notes: gain that information from the detainee. Indeed, many 1. In assessing options the review will be expected to insurgents are aware of the 96 hours policy and simply take into account: say nothing for that entire period. In these circumstances, The goal of widening participation to ensure that the benefits of the Government have concluded that Ministers should higher education are open to all who have the talent and be able to authorise detention beyond 96 hours, in motivation to succeed; the avoidance of the creation of barriers British detention facilities to which the ICRC has access. to wider access; the impact of the system of bursary payments; Each case will be thoroughly scrutinised against the promoting fair access to all institutions; facilitating choice and relevant legal and policy considerations; we will only do a diversity of access routes to higher education, including this where it is legal to do so and when it is necessary to through links with further education colleges; and the scope support the operation and protect our troops. for a greater diversity of models of learning, such as modular and part-time study and the availability of student support for Following a ministerial decision to authorise extended such courses. detention, each case will be thoroughly and regularly Affordability for students and their families during their studies monitored by in-theatre military commanders and civilian and afterwards; impact on public finances including affordability, advisers. Individuals will not remain in UK detention if sustainability and value for money for the taxpayer. there is no further intelligence to be gained. We will then The desirability of simplification of the system of support. either release the detainee or transfer the detainee to the 2. The review will take evidence from within higher Afghan authorities. Wehave a memorandum of understanding education and among those with an interest in its (MOU) with the Government of Afghanistan, requiring success, including an advisory forum to be convened by that individuals detained by UK forces and transferred the chair. to the Afghan authorities are treated properly.Following 3. The review will work with the Office for Fair Access transfer, we continue to work with the Afghans in support and HEFCE and collaborate with Professor Adrian of their judicial processes, maintaining close links and Smith’s review of postgraduate study. Its work will also monitoring the application of the MOU, including through take into account the conclusions of Professor Sir Martin regular visits by Royal Military Police and British embassy Harris’s review on promoting access to higher education. staff to transferred detainees. The ICRC also has access 4. The review is expected to report by the autumn of to the Afghan system. 2010. We ask our armed forces to operate in highly dangerous environments. In Afghanistan the capacity of the local DEFENCE agencies to enforce security and the rule of law is growing by the day, but it is vital that our forces have the authority Detention Policy and the capability to deal effectively with the serious threat to troops and those they are there to protect. I recognise the sensitivity of detention operations, but they are fundamental The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): to the success of our military operations in Afghanistan, UK forces in Afghanistan form part of the NATO-led as has been proven in other operational areas. International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and UK forces in Afghanistan operate, and will continue contribute to the efforts of the international community to operate, in accordance with international law and with the to assist the Government of Afghanistan to expand highest standards of conduct that we rightly expect security and build the rule of law. of them. The Taliban insurgents are ruthless and indiscriminate in their attempts to kill and maim our troops and the Afghan people. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE In his statement on the 26 February 2009, Official Environment Council Report, column 394 on the detention and transfer of persons captured by UK forces in and Afghanistan, my right hon. Friend the then Secretary of State for The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Defence set out the value of detention operations to our Affairs (David Miliband): The Secretary of State for campaign in Afghanistan. Detention operations by UK Energy and Climate Change, and Andy Lebrecht, UKRep, forces are conducted in accordance with, and the holding represented the UK at the Environment Council on of detainees in UK facilities meets the standards required 21 October in Luxembourg. by, the relevant provisions of international law. Member states reached agreement on the Council In the light of the evolving threat to our forces, we conclusions concerning the EU position for the forthcoming have continued to keep our approach to these operations Copenhagen climate conference. Dinner discussions on under review. Under NATO guidelines individuals detained 20 October saw early positioning of member states for by ISAF are either transferred to the Afghan authorities the following day’s debate and the UK was among those within 96 hours for further action through the Afghan arguing for ambitious conclusions to send a clear signal judicial process or released. And in the majority of of intent prior to the international negotiations in cases, the UK forces will operate in this manner. However, December. The Council agreed on a text containing in exceptional circumstances, detaining individuals beyond three compromises relating to the long-term EU emissions- 96 hours can yield vital intelligence that would help reduction target, bunker fuels and assigned amount protect our forces and the local population—potentially units (AAUs). At lunch, the discussion centred on the saving lives, particularly when detainees are suspected need to engage with business and expertise as well as of holding information on the placement of improvised co-ordinating EU messaging and maintaining contact explosive devices. in the run-up to Copenhagen. 7WS Written Ministerial Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 8WS

Ministers also adopted Council conclusions relating i) provisions to impose obligations on CSPs relating to the to the role of a low-carbon, resource-efficient economy collection and retention of specified communications data in the post-2010 Lisbon strategy. The UK welcomed the which cross their networks (including third party and other aims of the conclusions. data which are not currently retained for business purposes or under existing legislation); and On the subject of ship dismantling, the Council also ii) provisions to impose obligations on CSPs to organise the approved conclusions calling for the early ratification communications data they retain in a specified way enabling and implementation of the Hong Kong international specific lawful requests for data by public authorities to be convention for the safe and environmentally sound processed efficiently and effectively. recycling of ships and inviting the Commission to consider The Home Office received 221 responses to the EU legislation in this area. consultation exercise. As explained in the Summary and A policy debate reviewing the restriction of hazardous Responses, the Government’s rejection of a central substances (RoHS) and waste electrical and electronic database for all communications data was welcomed. equipment (WEEE) directives highlighted different views There was also recognition of the importance of among member states regarding the scope of the directives. communications data and agreement that the capability The UK raised concerns about moving to an “open” of communications data to protect the public should be scope for both directives without proper assessment of maintained. the impacts of such a move and this was supported by As we develop the approach proposed in the consultation several other member states. The presidency concluded in the light of the responses received, we will continue that most delegations were open to separate scopes for to work closely with communications service providers RoHS but that the scope of WEEE need further reflection. in order to minimise as far as possible any impact on Ministers also discussed several AOB items: A number them. We will also ensure that any new proposals will of member states highlighted the problem of forest include strong safeguards to minimise the potential for fires. In response to concerns about the “cocktail” effect abuse and to ensure the security and integrity of the of mixtures of chemicals, the presidency confirmed data. they would present conclusions to the December Environment Council. Several delegations shared their A copy of the Summary of Responses will be placed concerns about “plastic soup”—plastic marine debris in the House Library. floating in the oceans.

HOME DEPARTMENT JUSTICE Communications Data Consultation Data Protection The Minister for Policing, Crime and Counter-Terrorism (Mr. David Hanson): On April 27 the Home Office The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Mr. Michael published a consultation, “Protecting the Public in a Wills): I am today publishing a consultation paper Changing Communications Environment”, which set entitled “Civil Monetary Penalties, Setting the Maximum out the importance of communications data in helping Penalty”. The paper explains the Government’s proposal to protect and safeguard the public; how the rapidly to set the maximum penalty for civil monetary penalties changing communications environment means the existing at £500,000. Civil monetary penalties, as set out under capability of the police, the security and intelligence agencies sections 55A-E of the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA) and other public authorities is declining and why change would be imposed by the Information Commissioner is necessary. Today I am publishing the Summary and for serious breaches of the data protection principles. Responses submitted as part of this consultation exercise. The Government are particularly seeking views from Communications data are information about a data controllers on the level of the proposed penalty, communication but do not include the content of a but responses to the consultation are welcome from communication. anyone with an interest. The Government’s proposal to Used in the right way, and subject to important introduce civil monetary penalties reflects the importance safeguards to protect individuals’ right to privacy, that Government place on safeguarding personal data communications data can play a critical role in keeping effectively and processing them responsibly and lawfully. all of us safe. It enables investigators to identify suspects The proposals will potentially affect data controllers in and their associates; provides vital clues in solving England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, so this life-threatening situations such as kidnaps, and evidence consultation is UK-wide. supporting alibis and prosecutions; supports lawful interception of communications; and assists the emergency Before imposing any civil monetary penalties the services to help or locate vulnerable people. It is also Information Commissioner has a statutory obligation critical to safeguarding our national security, and in to publish detailed guidance setting out the criteria it particular to countering the terrorist threat. will use when imposing a civil monetary penalty, and circumstances it will take into consideration. The consultation paper sought views on options for maintaining our vital communications data capabilities The Information Commissioner’s Office has published to protect the public against a background of rapid on its website the latest draft of its guidance on civil technological change. It rejected options for both a monetary penalties and would welcome comments on it. single database holding all communications data and a The introduction of civil monetary penalties should “do nothing” option. Instead it proposed a “middle contribute to increased compliance with the data protection way” approach involving two main elements for which principles and greater confidence for data subjects that new legislation would be required. These elements were: their information is being handled correctly. 9WS Written Ministerial Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 10WS

Copies of the consultation paper and associated impact how ports can support the development of low-carbon assessment will be placed in the Libraries of both energy sources and a low-carbon economy.And it provides Houses and on the Department’s website at: www.justice. guidance about how the Infrastructure Planning gov.uk Commission must weight any residual impacts in considering applications for nationally significant port Body Orifice Security Scanners developments, including in setting requirements and agreeing obligations for consented developments. The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Maria The Department is also publishing, in parallel, its Eagle): I am making this statement to update the House Appraisal of Sustainability of the draft national policy about the roll-out of Body Orifice Security Scanners statement, incorporating a strategic environmental (BOSS chairs). assessment, as well as an impact assessment and an In my written ministerial statement of 13 July 2009, assessment of the NPS under the habitats and wild Official Report, column 4WS stated that we had equipped birds directives and regulations. Consultees will be able all prisons with a Body Orifice Security Scanner (BOSS to comment on these if they wish. I am placing copies chair) and that the roll-out was completed in May. It of the main Appraisal of Sustainability in the House has now been brought to my attention that five out the Library. 128 BOSS chairs were not delivered on time and I wish The public consultation being launched today invites to update the House. All chairs have now been delivered; views on the extent to which this national policy statement one in June, three in July and one in September. The provides a suitable framework for the Infrastructure relevant Prison Service Instruction (PSI) mandates that Planning Commission in making decisions about consents governors must ensure that use of the BOSS is incorporated for new port developments. Their decisions will be into local security strategies in the light of local operational based primarily on national policy statements, so it is priorities. all the more important that people have a full opportunity to comment on the detailed drafting. The consultation TRANSPORT closes on 15 February but I encourage people to respond earlier where possible in order to allow their comments National Policy Statement for Ports to be taken into account in parliamentary scrutiny of the policy statement. Consultees are also invited to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport participate in consultation events to be organised by my (Paul Clark): My right hon. and noble Friend the Department in London, Leeds and Cardiff. The Secretary of State for the , consultation is at: www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/open/ Lord Adonis, has made the following ministerial statement: portsnps. The Department for Transport is launching today the Section 9(7) of the Planning Act requires the Secretary public consultation on a draft “National Policy Statement of State to stipulate the “relevant period” in which, if for Ports” in England and Wales. I am laying the draft either House makes a resolution or a Committee of before the House and placing copies of the consultation either House makes recommendations with regard to in the House Library. the proposal to designate an NPS, he will lay a statement This national policy statement forms a key element of in response. I hereby stipulate the relevant period as the Government’s programme to deliver the reforms to that beginning today and ending on 6 May 2010. the planning system included in last year’s Planning The House may wish to be aware that the Department Act. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for for Transport is continuing to work up for consultation Energy and Climate Change has announced in the a draft NPS for England’s strategic road and rail networks. other place, the Government are also today publishing The advice I have commissioned from High Speed 2 on for consultation a series of national policy statements high speed rail services is likely to be a significant factor for energy infrastructure. in determining future policy. I have now concluded that The aim of the reforms to the planning system set out it would be appropriate to publish this NPS early next in the Planning Act is to make the planning system year, having considered the HS2 report. In addition, I more responsive to challenges such as climate change, still expect to publish a draft NPS for airports by 2011. more streamlined, efficient and predictable, and more transparent and accountable with full and fair opportunities for public consultation and community engagement. WORK AND PENSIONS The draft “National Policy Statement for Ports” sets out the broad need for ports capacity looking ahead to 2030 and beyond, taking account in particular of our Pension Protection System forecasts of port freight demand and the regional and local economic benefits of port activity. It also restates the Government’s long-standing policy that this need The Minister for Pensions and the Ageing Society can be best met by an efficient and competitive ports (Angela Eagle): As hon. Members are aware some of industry operating in a free-market environment. It the administrative resource costs of the pensions regulator further sets out, in the context of the Government’s (tPR), the Pension Protection Fund (PPF), the Pensions overall objectives for sustainable development, including Advisory Service (TPAS) and the pensions ombudsman mitigating and adapting to climate change and the (PO) are recovered through levies raised on pension achievement of good design, how the various potential schemes. The rates for these levies are set in regulations. adverse impacts of port development should be addressed The PPF administration levy recovers the administration by applicants with a view to avoiding, mitigating and costs of the board of the PPF only in relation to its PPF where necessary compensating for such impacts. It notes activities. Any administration costs in relation to PPF’s 11WS Written Ministerial Statements9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 12WS financial assistance scheme responsibilities are funded I am pleased to announce that for 2010-11 we will separately and there is no cross-subsidy from the PPF levy. continue to freeze the rates for both the PPF administration The general levy provides for some of the administration levy and the general levy at the same levels set for costs of tPR and those of TPAS and the PO. Activities the 2008-09. regulator is undertaking in relation to the employer This will be the third year that we have kept rates compliance regime are not met from the general levy stable and delivers on the Government’s intention to and are funded separately. There is no cross-subsidy provide levy cost stability for pension schemes. between the two funding sources. 1W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 2W

Jim Fitzpatrick: At the 7 September EU Agriculture Written Answers to Council meeting, the Secretary of State expressed concern at the unnecessarily long journeys some animals undertake Questions within Europe, particularly to slaughter. He urged the European Commission to give due consideration to shorter journey times and improved enforcement of Monday 9 November 2009 welfare in transport rules when putting forward proposals to review the legislation. Commission proposals for an early review have not come forward this year as expected. HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION It is not now known when new proposals may be drawn House of Commons: Energy up although the Commission is obliged to review the Regulation by 2011. Mr. Amess: To ask the hon. Member for North Devon, representing the House of Commons Commission Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control what assessment the House of Commons Commission has made of the potential contribution of use of (a) Dan Rogerson: To ask the Secretary of State for micro-generation and (b) combined heat and power to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what culling improving the energy efficiency of the House of Commons methods have been used in trials for culling tuberculosis- part of the parliamentary estate; and if he will make a infected badgers; and if he will make a statement. [297486] statement. [297028] Nick Harvey: Studies have been undertaken to assess the potential for micro-generation and combined heat Jim Fitzpatrick: Gassing of badgers in setts with and power to improve energy efficiency across the estate. hydrogen cyanide gas was carried out between 1975-1982, These include assessments of the potential for solar, when it was discontinued due to studies which showed it wind and tidal power generation, borehole water cooling to be inhumane. Trapping and shooting has been the and combined heat, power and cooling for the Palace of culling method used since, during the clean ring (1982-1986) Westminster. Solar, wind and tidal power generation for and interim (1986-1997) control strategies and the the Palace have, at this stage, been discounted due Randomised Badger Culling Trial (1998-2005). Both mainly to heritage restrictions and unfavourable local tuberculosis-infected and uninfected badgers were removed conditions. Combined heat, power and cooling is now in all of these operations. It was also the manner of being subjected to an in-depth feasibility study the culling used during the live test trial (1994-1996), which outcome of which will determine a way forward. initially aimed to remove individual infected badgers Portcullis House operates a borehole water cooling that tested positive to a diagnostic test (known as the system. Brock Elisa test). However, due to the poor performance of the test in detecting infected badgers, the trial was Additional opportunities are also being reviewed suspended in 1996. including connection of northern outbuildings to the Whitehall District Heating (combined heat and power) System and resolving the long-standing problems preventing Business: Rural Areas the use of the existing combined heat and power plant in Norman Shaw South. Mr. Prisk: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much was spent in (a) 2007-08 and (b) 2008-09 on the Rural Development ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Programme for Business Support Scheme; and how Agriculture: Subsidies many businesses received assistance from the scheme in each of those years. [298138] Mr. Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what appeals Dan Norris: The information requested is detailed in process may be invoked by farmers who face deductions the following table1: from their single farm payments for (a) cattle passport 1 These figures relate to activity supported under Rural Development contraventions, (b) breaches of the conditions of the Programme for England (RDPE) business support measures as Rural Stewardship Scheme and (c) other matters. defined under Solutions for Business. RDPE is part of Solutions [297807] for Business, the Government’s package of publicly funded business support designed to help companies start and grow. Jim Fitzpatrick: A farmer facing a deduction from their Single Payment Scheme claim may appeal against Number of the decision to apply the reductions under the Single Spend (£ million) businesses supported Payment Scheme Appeal Procedure. Full details of this 2007-08 13 4,555 procedure can be found on the RPA website 2008-09 12.5 8,058 www.rpa.gov.uk Animals: Transport Charities Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps his Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Department is taking at EU level to seek to improve Food and Rural Affairs what grants his Department welfare standards for animals in transit in the EU. made to charitable organisations in each of the last five [298183] years. [292655] 3W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 4W

Dan Norris: DEFRA does not hold this information Information on expenditure on overnight centrally. The Department’s grant programmes are accommodation for Ministers is not held centrally and administered by a wide range of delivery bodies. To could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Travel collect the information centrally would incur by Ministers and civil servants is undertaken in accordance disproportionate cost. with the and the Civil Service Management Code respectively. The Cabinet Office Commission for Rural Communities: Finance produces an annual list of overseas travel over £500 undertaken by Ministers. The 2008-09 list was published Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for on 16 July and can be viewed at: Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much grant www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/propriety_and_ethics/ministers/ in aid was provided by his Department to the Commission travel_gifts.aspx for Rural Communities in each of the last three years. [298262] Drinking Water: Fluoride Dan Norris: The grant in aid provided by DEFRA to the Commission for Rural Communities (CRC) in each Dr. Iddon: To ask the Secretary of State for of the last three financial years was as follows: Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the average level of fluoride ions in parts per million was in water £ supplied to households by each water company in the Revenue Capitalised Total grant-in-aid latest period for which figures are available. [297805] 2008-09 6,734,000 5,000 6,739,000 2007-08 8,902,000 7,000 8,909,000 Huw Irranca-Davies: Water companies have provided 2006-07 8,511,000 88,000 8,599,000 sample results giving actual fluoride levels in treated Source: water since 2004 to the Drinking Water Inspectorate. CRC Annual Report 2008-09 and CRC Annual Report 2007-08. The average levels of fluoride in tap water samples Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 taken in each year from 2004 to 2008 by company are provided below. These data are published on the Drinking Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Water Inspectorate’s website. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment he has made of the effect of the measures in the Average fluoride in parts per million Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 on (a) the prevalence of pit Company 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 bull terriers and similar breeds and (b) trends in the number of attacks on humans by dogs in the last 10 Albion Water 0.04 0.04 0.04 0.02 0.03 Anglian Water 0.36 0.36 0.36 0.38 0.38 years. [297280] Bournemouth and West 0.13 0.11 0.12 0.11 0.11 Hants Water Jim Fitzpatrick: No assessment has been made of the Bristol Water 0.13 0.13 0.13 0.14 0.13 effect of the measures in the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 Cambridge Water 0.14 0.11 0.12 0.13 0.13 on the prevalence of pit bull terriers and similar breeds Cholderton Water 0.09 0.07 0.07 0.06 0.07 and trends in the number of attacks on humans by dogs Dwr Cymru Welsh Water 0.04 0.04 0.04 0.02 0.01 in the last 10 years. However, following a spate of high Dee Valley Water 0.06 0.10 0.07 0.05 0.06 profile dog attacks in 2007, DEFRA consulted police Essex and Suffolk Water 0.29 0.26 0.27 0.27 0.25 forces for their views on the current dangerous dog Hartlepool Water 1.19 1.13 1.11 1.09 1.04 legislation. Responses indicated that more guidance Northumbrian Water 0.31 0.46 0.47 0.46 0.48 should be made available to the police. In April of this Portsmouth Water 0.10 0.08 0.12 0.14 0.14 year, DEFRA made available additional guidance on Scottish and Southern n/a n/a n/a n/a 0.1 the law. We also provided the Association of Chief of Energy1 Police Officers £20,000 towards the training of specialist Severn Trent Water 0.35 0.38 0.34 0.36 0.36 dog legislation officers. South East Water 0.13 0.11 0.13 0.17 0.17 Departmental Visits Abroad South Staffordshire Water 1.08 1.05 0.99 0.84 0.90 South West Water 0.04 0.04 0.04 0.04 0.04 Southern Water 0.13 0.11 0.11 0.10 0.11 David Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for Sutton and East Surrey 0.13 0.11 0.13 0.10 0.13 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much his Water Department has spent on overnight accommodation Thames Water 0.18 0.18 0.17 0.16 0.16 for (a) Ministers and (b) officials while overseas in United Utilities 0.08 0.08 0.10 0.08 0.06 each of the last three years. [294685] Veolia Water Central 0.19 0.20 0.19 0.19 0.19 Veolia Water East 0.53 0.60 0.55 0.66 0.55 Dan Norris: From information held centrally, and Veolia Water South East 0.12 0.12 0.11 0.11 0.12 from April 2006 to 20 October 2009, expenditure on Wessex Water 0.15 0.15 0.14 0.14 0.16 accommodation for officials while overseas is: Yorkshire Water 0.09 0.08 0.08 0.07 0.07 1 Scottish and Southern Energy was a new supplier in 2008 £

April 2006 to March 2007 20,938 Dr. Iddon: To ask the Secretary of State for April 2007 to March 2008 90,530 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many of the April 2008 to March 2009 92,715 sources of water used by water companies contain April 2009 to 20 October 2009 48,571 fluoride ions at a level above one part per million. [297806] 5W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 6W

Huw Irranca-Davies: In England and Wales, there are local authority was allocated for flood defence a total of 1,692 water supply zones. 18 zones have on maintenance and upgrading in each year since 1997. average fluoride level greater than one part per million [298519] of fluoride (based on data from 2004-08). Of these 18 zones, 10 receive water from artificial fluoridation schemes. Huw Irranca-Davies: Over the last decade the level of Average levels in the remaining eight zones are the investment in flood defences has increased. In the 2010-11 result of naturally occurring fluoride in the water sources. financial year, a total of £780,000,000 is expected to be The map indicates the average level of fluoride in spent nationally, in comparison with £600,400,000 in water supply zones in England and Wales. The map is 2007-08, and £310,000,000 in 1997-98. published on the Drinking Water Inspectorate’s website Table 1 shows the breakdown of funding allocated to and updated annually. all local authorities from 1996-97 to 2007-08 for flood defences. It is not possible to provide details of what Flood Control proportion of this is spent on flood defence maintenance and upgrading as this is at the discretion of the local Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for authorities, and information is not supplied in local Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much each authority outturns.

Table 1: Funding allocated to local authorities 1996-97 to 2007-08 £ million Capital Grant and Capital Grant to SCE(R)2 to LAs Funding to EA for LAs for coastal Direct Funding to LAs LA Expenditure1 and IDBs3 LAs and IDBs2 protection Total

1996-97 205.2 — — — — 205.2 1997 98 223.3 — — — — 223.3 1998-99 233.2 — — — — 233.2 1999-2000 246.6 — — — — 246.6 2000-01 262.7 — — — — 262.7 2001-02 281.4 — — — — 281.4 2002-03 299.4 — — — — 299.4 2003-04 322.0 — — — — 322.0 2004-05 — 80.3 46.9 — — 127.2 2005-06 — 84.4 79.5 — — 163.9 2006-07 — 84.5 — 12.7 65.7 162.9 2007-08 — 86.0 — 21.2 49.0 156.2 1 Local authority expenditure is funded from a number of sources including central government grant, council tax and reserves. The primary source is Revenue Support Grant from the Department of Communities and Local Government (CLG). More information is available from the CLG website, including the page onthe revenue support grant settlements. 2 Between 2004 and 2006 local authority projects were funded through a mix of direct capital grant and Supported Capital Expenditure (Revenue) (SCE(R)). SCE(R) counted against DEFRA’s Departmental Expenditure Limit for the year in which it was approved and supported local authority expenditure in that year. However, the funding resulting from SCE(R) was actually provided to the local authority over several years through Revenue Support Grant from the Department of Communities and Local Government. From 2006-07 onwards the mixture of grant and SCE(R) was replaced by a direct DEFRA grant. 3 We are unable to split this funding further into the level of funding which went to local authorities and that which went to Internal Drainage Boards (IDBs).

Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for Local authority allocation is much higher in 2003-04 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much and previous years because during this time the funding was allocated to each local authority for flood Environment Agency was largely funded through levies defences in each year since 1997. [297273] on local authorities, with DEFRA part-funding capital improvement projects and national initiatives such as Huw Irranca-Davies: Over the last decade the level of public awareness campaigns and Catchment Flood investment in flood defences has increased. In the 2010-11 Management Plans. Although local authorities still pay financial year, a total of £780,000,000 is expected to be levies to the Environment Agency, this form of funding spent nationally, in comparison with £600,400,000 in has largely been replaced by direct funding to the 2007-08, and £310,000,000 in 1997-98. Environment Agency from DEFRA, through grant in Table 1 shows the breakdown of funding allocated to aid which has increased from £358,600,00 in 2004-05 to all local authorities from 1996-97 to 2007-08 for flood £435,900,000 in 2007-08. defences. It is not possible to provide details of funding to each local authority individually.

Table 1: Funding allocated to local authorities 1996-97 to 2007-08 £ million Capital Grant and Capital Grant to SCE(R)2 to LAs Funding to EA for LAs for coastal Direct funding to LAs LA expenditure1 and IDBs3 LAs and IDBs2 protection Total

1996-97 205.2 — — — — 205.2 1997-98 223.3 — — — — 223.3 1998-99 233.2 — — — — 233.2 1999-2000 246.6 — — — — 246.6 2000-01 262.7 — — — — 262.7 7W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 8W

Table 1: Funding allocated to local authorities 1996-97 to 2007-08 £ million Capital Grant and Capital Grant to SCE(R)2 to LAs Funding to EA for LAs for coastal Direct funding to LAs LA expenditure1 and IDBs3 LAs and IDBs2 protection Total

2001-02 281.4 — — — — 281.4 2002-03 299.4 — — — — 299.4 2003-04 322.0 — — — — 322.0 2004-05 — 80.3 46.9 — — 127.2 2005-06 — 84.4 79.5 — — 163.9 2006-07 — 84.5 — 12.7 65.7 162.9 2007-08 — 86.0 — 21.2 49.0 156.2 1 Local authority expenditure is funded from a number of sources including central Government grant, council tax and reserves. The primary source is Revenue Support Grant from the Department for Communities and Local Government (CLG). More information is available from the CLG website, including the page on the revenue support grant settlements. 2 Between 2004 and 2006 local authority projects were funded through a mix of direct capital grant and Supported Capital Expenditure (Revenue) (SCE(R)). SCE(R) counted against DEFRA’s Departmental Expenditure Limit for the year in which it was approved and supported local authority expenditure in that year. However, the funding resulting from SCE(R) was actually provided to the local authority over several years through Revenue Support Grant from CLG. From 2006-07 onwards the mixture of grant and SCE(R) was replaced by a direct DEFRA grant. 3 We are unable to split this funding further into the level of funding which went to local authorities and that which went to Internal Drainage Boards (IDBs).

Floods: West Midlands In Herefordshire, £150,000 has been identified to raise existing defences at Hampton Bishop. This is in Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for addition to the £1,240,000 maintenance work identified Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much the for this year and £990,000 maintenance work identified Government have provided towards the maintenance for 2010-11. and upgrading of flood defences in (a) the West In Worcestershire, £2,400,000 has been identified to Midlands, (b) Herefordshire and (c) Worcestershire in protect 34 houses in Upton upon Severn in 2010-11. each of the last five years. [298518] £1,000,000 (plus a contribution from Local Levy funding) has been identified to address problems in Childswickham Huw Irranca-Davies: In total, the Environment Agency and Wickhamford to protect 50 houses on the Badsy Midlands Region has spent £114,260,000 designing and Brook. In Bewdley, £400,000 has been identified to constructing new defences and maintaining existing protect 100 houses at the Quayside and in Worcester ones in the West Midlands. Excluding Herefordshire £100,000 has been identified to reduce flood risk to and Worcestershire, £88,930,000 has been spent. 71 houses on the Barbourne Brook. Major capital schemes at Burton, Cannock, Cheltenham Lighting: EU Law and Kidderminster have reduced flood risk for 8,174 properties in the West Midlands. Significant additional funds have been provided to improve flood modelling, Kate Hoey: To ask the Secretary of State for forecasting, warning and incident response. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the answer to the right hon. Member for Wells of 26 January In Herefordshire, £7,000,000 has been spent on a new 2009, Official Report, columns 48-49W, on lighting, flood defence scheme in Hereford and £6.1 million on what the title is of the implementing measure agreed by maintaining existing flood defences. Expenditure in the EU member state experts in December 2008; if he will area totals £13,100,000 in the last five years. place in the Library a copy of the measure adopted by In Worcestershire, £2,660,000 has been spent completing the European Parliament and the European Council; the Bewdley defences and £870,000 on new defences at what steps have been taken to implement the measure in North Littleton. An estimated £8,700,000 has been UK law; and if he will make a statement. [297689] spent maintaining flood defences, with total expenditure amounting to £12,230,000 over the last five years. Dan Norris: EC Regulation 244/2009 implementing Directive 2005/32/EC with regard to ecodesign requirements Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for for non-directional household lamps entered into force Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps the in April 2009. A copy will be placed in the Library. Government plans to take to prevent wide scale As an EC regulation it required no transposition into flooding in (a) the West Midlands, (b) Herefordshire UK law. Enforcement of this regulation lies within the and (c) Worcestershire. [298520] responsibility of the Secretary of State in accordance with the Ecodesign for Energy-Using Products Huw Irranca-Davies: The Environment Agency has (Amendment) Regulations 2009 (SI 2009 No. 2560). identified projects to reduce the risk of flooding for 11,109 houses in the West Midlands between 2010 and Local Government Services 2020. Excluding planned schemes in Worcestershire and Herefordshire, flood risk reduction is planned for 10,854 Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for houses. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what his There will also be continued investment to improve Department’s policy is on participating in the Total flood modelling, mapping, forecasting and warning. Place initiative with local councils. [298438] The development and testing of flood response plans will also continue in partnership with local authorities Dan Norris: Total Place is a joint initiative challenging and emergency services. central Government and local areas to work together to 9W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 10W find better ways to achieve outcomes. Members of In the last month, Ministers from DEFRA and the DEFRA’s management board are representing central Department of Energy and Climate Change met with Government in the pilot projects in Birmingham, central UK based businesses that are members of the RSPO, Bedfordshire and Luton, and Kent. and with international NGOs on forestry and palm oil. Engagement with these groups in the UK and Origin Marking: Israel internationally, including with other Governments, will continue as the UK Government work to support sustainable production and consumption of palm oil. Lynne Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for This includes funding a project to help the RSPO Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the secretariat strengthen and expand its certification. answer of 20 July 2009, Official Report, columns 956-57W, on Israel: imports, (1) for what reason no Renewable Energy: Fuel Oil reference was made to the planned public consultation on the labelling of produce from the occupied Tom Levitt: To ask the Secretary of State for Palestinian territories in the letter dated 13 October Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what his 2009 to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak, Department’s policy is on the use of recovered fuel oil ref: MC126368/MA; [297001] as a substitute for the use of fossil fuels. [298887] (2) when he expects the draft voluntary guidance on origin labelling of produce from the occupied Dan Norris: DEFRA’s policies on waste oils and Palestinian territories to be placed on his Department’s recovering energy from waste are set out in Waste website. [297002] Strategy for England 2007. This Department does not have a specific policy on the use of recovered fuel oil. Jim Fitzpatrick: DEFRA still intends to hold a consultation about the terms of the voluntary guidance Tom Levitt: To ask the Secretary of State for referred to by my hon. Friend. The Government are still Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proportion carefully considering the arrangements for consultation, of plants compliant with the Waste Incineration and what guidance might be placed on DEFRA’s website. Directive can accept recycled fuel oil as a fuel. [298888] Dan Norris: In England and Wales, six out of 126 plants Palm Oil regulated by the Environment Agency, or 5 per cent. of Waste Incineration Directive (WID) compliant Plants, Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for are permitted to receive recovered fuel oil (RFO) for use Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on how many as a fuel. The plants using RFO are: four sewage sludge occasions the Cabinet discussed palm oil since 2005; incinerators, one clinical waste incinerator and one and if he will make a statement. [298523] hazardous waste incinerator. RFO is used usually as a support fuel to maintain furnace temperatures if waste Dan Norris: The minutes of Cabinet meetings are burning does not remain self-sufficient. It would be confidential. Ministers and Departments are working very unusual for any of these plants to continue to burn together to advance the sustainable production and RFO for prolonged periods. consumption of palm oil, including through engagement Water with businesses, NGOs, the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil and other governments. Mr. Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for assessment he has made of the improvements to (a) Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) whether his lakes, (b) estuaries and (c) coastal waters required by Department was represented at the most recent the draft Regional Management Plans; and if he will Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil meeting; and if he make a statement. [298153] will make a statement; [298529] (2) when he last discussed the use of sustainable Huw Irranca-Davies: The Environment Agency submitted palm oil with (a) Ministerial colleagues, (b) its proposed final River Basin Management Plans to representatives of the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm DEFRA on 22 September and they are available on its Oil, (c) representatives of the palm oil industry, (d) website. representatives of environmental non governmental DEFRA is currently in the process of considering its organisations and (e) officials of other Government proposals and the final plans are due to be published by departments; and if he will make a statement; [298530] 22 December 2009, as set out in the Water Framework (3) what steps his Department is taking to support Directive. the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil; and if he will make a statement. [298533] SCOTLAND Dan Norris: The Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO) annual meeting which took place from Departmental Aviation 2-4 November was attended by a Government official from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland posted to the South East Asia region. FCO officials how many first-class flights were taken by each work closely with counterparts in the UK to represent Minister in his Department in 2008-09; and what the wider government interests and to keep policy makers (a) origin, (b) destination and (c) cost was of each informed of relevant developments abroad. such flight. [298747] 11W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 12W

Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office does not separately (2) how much additional funding the EU allocated in record journey information and expenditure on first respect of Northern Ireland other than its planned class flights. It is Scotland Office policy not to use first allocation in each financial year since 2005. [298690] class air travel. All air travel is undertaken by the most efficient and cost-effective way, in accordance with the Paul Goggins: These are matters for the Northern Ministerial Code, a copy of which is available in the Ireland Administration. Library of the House. Firearms: Licensing Departmental Postal Services Mr. Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern David T.C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Ireland how many applications there have been for (a) Scotland with which providers his Department held new and (b) renewal of firearms certificates in Northern contracts to provide postal services (a) in 2007, (b) in Ireland in each year since 2005. [297581] 2008, (c) between 1 January 2009 and 1 July 2009 and (d) after 1 July 2009. [298766] Paul Goggins: That is an operational matter for the Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office has contracts in Chief Constable. I have asked him to reply directly to place with Royal Mail for a range of postal services. the hon. Member and a copy of his letter will be placed These arrangements have been in place since 2007. The in the Library of the House. services are subject to annual renewal. Offensive Weapons Departmental Travel Mr. Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many offences involving a knife Scotland how many miles (a) Ministers and (b) in Northern Ireland resulted in convictions in each year officials in his Department and its predecessor travelled since 2005. [298892] by (i) car, (ii) rail and (iii) air on Government business in each year since 1997. [298547] Paul Goggins: The information is not available in the format requested as it is not possible to separately Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office was established identify the number of convictions for certain offences, on 1 July 1999. The Office does not hold the information for example murder in which a knife was involved. It is requested. only possible to provide conviction statistics for those offences which, in their definition, refer to an “offensive weapon” (of which knives will be one sub-category) or PRIME MINISTER “article with blade or point”. Ministers: Taxation These are: armed with offensive weapon with intent to commit offence; Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Prime Minister possessing offensive weapon in public place; whether a member of the Government is required to be possessing article with blade or point in public place; a UK resident for tax purposes. [298156] possessing article with blade or point on school premises; The Prime Minister: Ministers are required to handle possessing offensive weapon on school premises. their financial interests in accordance with the requirements There were 209 such convictions in 2005 and 242 in of the “Ministerial Code”. 2006 (the latest year for which figures are available). Data are collated on the principal offence rule; so only the most serious offence with which an offender is NORTHERN IRELAND charged is included. Departmental Homeworking Police David Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many staff of his Department Mr. McGrady: To ask the Secretary of State for have been authorised to work from home in the last Northern Ireland what the content was of (a) 12 months. [297737] correspondence sent by and (b) other communications made by him to the First and Deputy First Ministers of Paul Goggins: The Northern Ireland Office enables the Northern Ireland Executive since 1 October 2009 staff to work from home when circumstances permit on issues related to policing and justice in Northern and with prior agreement from their local management. Ireland; and if he will place in the Library a copy of Details are not held centrally. each such communication. [297605] EU Grants and Loans Mr. Woodward: The Secretary of State has continued Mr. Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern to meet and engage regularly with the First and Deputy Ireland (1) how many applications for EU funding First Minister and other party leaders in Northern submitted in respect of projects based in Northern Ireland, on a range of financial and other matters Ireland there were in each year since 2005; and how relating to policing and justice. A copy of a letter sent much EU funding was allocated to such projects in each by the Prime Minister on 21 October has been placed in such year; [298623] the Library. 13W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 14W

Mrs. Iris Robinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Woodward: The Financial Services Authority Northern Ireland what is the planned number of police (FSA) indicated in a statement on 9 April 2009 that the officers in Northern Ireland for 2010-11. [298180] Presbyterian Mutual Society “...was conducting regulated activities without the necessary Paul Goggins: Decisions on force complement in the authorisation or exemption. However, on the basis of the information PSNI have been guided in recent years by Government currently available to us, and applying the criteria in the Code for policy (in line with the recommendation of the Patten Crown Prosecutors, we have decided that it would not be right for us to take a case against any of those involved in running the report) that there should be an establishment of 7,500 PMS. However, we remain in touch with the administrator and, if regular officers. In coming years the Chief Constable further information comes to light relating to the issues we have will have greater flexibility around the number of officers investigated, we will look into it.” in PSNI, and the establishment size will be an operational As the FSA is an independent non-governmental matter for the Chief Constable. I have asked him to body given statutory powers to make such decisions by reply directly to the hon. Member on this point, and a the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000, the copy of his letter will be placed in the Library of the Government do not normally offer comment on the House. conclusions it reaches on individual investigations, but we shall take account of its report as we take forward Mrs. Iris Robinson: To ask the Secretary of State for our work on the Presbyterian Mutual Society. Northern Ireland how many police officers there were in Northern Ireland in each of the last 10 years. Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for [298181] Northern Ireland what assistance his Department has provided to the Prime Minister’s working group on the Paul Goggins: That is an operational matter for the Presbyterian Mutual Society. [297180] Chief Constable. I have asked him to reply directly to the hon. Member, and a copy of his letter will be placed Mr. Woodward: The Ministerial Working Group, chaired in the Library of the House. by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, expects to produce a draft report to the Prime Minister in the coming Police: Devolution weeks. I have attended both meetings of this group which have taken place to date, and have discussed the Mr. McGrady: To ask the Secretary of State for matter with Treasury colleagues on a number of separate Northern Ireland what costed proposals he has occasions. Officials from my Department continue to received from the Northern Ireland Executive on the play a full part in the work being undertaken by the devolution of powers for criminal justice and policing officials’ working group, alongside officials from Her to the Northern Ireland Assembly since 1 September Majesty’s Treasury and the relevant Northern Ireland 2009; and if he will publish the proposals. [297189] Executive departments.

Mr. Woodward: The Government have not received Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for any costed proposals from the Northern Ireland Executive Northern Ireland what recent discussions he has had since 1 September 2009. with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on steps to assist members of the Presbyterian Mutual Society. [297325] Mr. McGrady: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he has agreed with the First Mr. Woodward: I have had a number of recent discussions and Deputy First Ministers of the Northern Ireland with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, who chairs the Executive a date for the proposed devolution of powers Ministerial Working Group set up by the Prime Minister for criminal justice and policing matters to the to examine this issue. Northern Ireland Assembly. [297606] Prostitution Paul Goggins: The Government believe that the time is right for the Northern Ireland Assembly to complete the process of devolution by requesting the transfer of David Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for policing and justice powers. However, the actual timing Northern Ireland how many people have been (a) of devolution remains for the Assembly itself to decide arrested, (b) prosecuted and (c) convicted on charges upon, as set out in section 4 of the Northern Ireland related to vice in Northern Ireland in each of the last Act 1998. Progress continues to be made towards the three years. [297726] completion of devolution and I believe that the financial package set out by the Prime Minister should enable the Paul Goggins: Table 1 gives the number of persons parties to move forward with the process. arrested for vice-related offences for the calendar years 2007-09 (to date). Table 2 documents the number prosecuted Presbyterian Mutual Society and number subsequently convicted for the calendar years 2004-06 (the latest available year). Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for It is not possible to reconcile arrest data directly with Northern Ireland what assessment he has made of the prosecution and conviction data, as PSNI arrest data conclusions of the Financial Services Authority on the denote the offence as it has been initially recorded and conduct of the Presbyterian Mutual Society in this may differ from the offence for which a suspect is undertaking regulated activities. [297171] subsequently proceeded against. 15W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 16W

Table 1: Number of persons arrested for vice-related offences 2007-09 Michael Jabez Foster: The Government Equalities (to date) Office was created on 12 October 2007. Since then, the Number of persons arrested following totals have been incurred on travel related 2007 8 expenditure: 2008 13 £ 2009 9 Ministers GEO staff Note: Arrests relate to the offences ‘brothel keeping’, ‘causing or inciting 2007-08 (12 October child prostitution or pornography’, ‘trafficking within the UK for 2007-31 March 2008) sexual exploitation’ and ‘controlling prostitution for gain’. Car hire 6,343 — Source: PSNI Train travel — 1,768 Table 2: Number prosecuted and convicted for vice-related offences Eurostar — 167 2004-06 Air travel — 5,785 Prosecutions Convictions Hotels/meals1 — 4,817 Total 6,343 12,537 20041 22 20052 33 2006 0 0 2008-09 1 One prosecution was for die offence ‘brothel keeping’ and one for Car hire 97,241 53 prostitute-soliciting’. Train travel 546 20,189 2 All three prosecutions were for the offence of ‘brothel keeping’. Eurostar 453 4,939 Note: Prosecutions and convictions are collated on the principal offence Air travel 378 18,292 rule; so only the most serious offence with which an offender is Hotels/meals1 900 7,334 charged is included. Total 99,518 50,807 Source: NIO 2009-101 Car hire 2,710 456 WOMEN AND EQUALITY Train travel — 8,617 Departmental Freedom of Information Eurostar — 2,522 Air travel 6,945 6,976 Mrs. Laing: To ask the Minister for Women and Hotels/meals1 910 4,329 Equality how many staff in the Government Equalities Total 10,565 22,900 Office were employed on the management of freedom 1 We are unable to separate the figures for hotel charges, meals and of information requests submitted to her Department incidentals as these are accounted for collectively using the in each year since 2005; and how much that office spent Department’s on-line travel and subsistence claiming system or via a on the management of such requests in each such year. government procurement (Visa) card. [299132] Note: Figures current to 31 August 2009. Michael Jabez Foster: It is not possible to calculate exact costs as management of freedom of information requests forms only part of the roles of: OLYMPICS one admin officer one senior executive officer Legacy: North-West one corporate services manager policy and other staff dealing with specific requests 3. Andrew Miller: To ask the Minister for the a small part of the time of one legal adviser. Olympics what assessment she has made of the legacy for the North West of the London 2012 Olympics; and if she will make a statement. [298003] Departmental Home Working David Simpson: To ask the Minister for Women and Tessa Jowell: The North West will gain from sporting, Equality how many staff of the Government Equalities commercial and other opportunities created by the Office have been authorised to work from home in the London 2012 Games. last 12 months. [297733] For example, Old Trafford will host rounds of the football competition in 2012 and the Australian Olympic Michael Jabez Foster: The Government Equalities swimming team, the Thailand Olympic and Paralympic Office (GEO) operates a flexible working policy which team and the Oceania National Olympic Committees is available to all staff. Staff are allowed to work from have all signed agreements to base their pre-Games home, subject to line management agreement based on training camps in the North West. 13 cultural projects business need, however central records on the amount in the North West have also been awarded the Inspire of time worked from home are not held. Mark and 5,018 businesses in the North West are registered Departmental Travel on CompeteFor. : To ask the Minister for Women Construction Programme and Equality how much her Office spent on (a) car hire, (b) train travel, (c) air travel, (d) hotels and (e) Ann Winterton: To ask the Minister for the Olympics restaurant meals for (i) Ministers and (ii) staff in her what recent progress has been made on the London Office since its inception. [289970] 2012 Olympics construction programme. [298002] 17W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 18W

Tessa Jowell: Excellent progress is being made on the Olympic Games 2012: Construction Olympic Delivery Authority’s construction programme, both at the Olympic Park in East London, and other Pete Wishart: To ask the Minister for the Olympics venues around the country. The Queen visited the site pursuant to the answer of 29 October 2009, Official last week to witness the transformation. Report, columns 517-18W, on the Olympic Games: Order books are being filled all around the country, construction, what the value was of the contracts awarded with 98 per cent. of construction contracts having gone to firms in (a) Scotland, (b) Wales, (c) Northern to UK companies. Ireland, (d) England and (e) elsewhere. [297969] The programme is on time and within budget. Tessa Jowell: The Olympic Delivery Authority is Contracts: Hertfordshire compiling the requested information. I will write to the hon. Member upon receipt, and I will place a copy in Anne Main: To ask the Minister for the Olympics the Libraries of both Houses. how many contracts related to the London 2012 Olympics have been awarded to businesses and Olympic Games 2012: Contracts organisation in (a) St Albans constituency and (b) Hertfordshire; and what the monetary value of such Mr. Tom Clarke: To ask the Minister for the contracts is. [297532] Olympics what proportion of contracts for the London 2012 Olympics have been awarded to companies based Tessa Jowell: To the end of September 2009, 32 suppliers outside London; and if she will make a statement. registered in Hertfordshire had been awarded contracts [298063] by the Olympic Delivery Authority (ODA), five of these businesses were registered in St. Albans. The total spend Tessa Jowell: To date the Olympic Delivery Authority to date for these contracts stands at £54,225,666. (ODA) has directly awarded contracts to over 1,000 These figures do not include those contracts awarded suppliers in the UK, 46 per cent. of these are businesses to sub-contractors based in Hertfordshire. Many other registered outside of London. Many more businesses companies will have won work from 2012 projects further are helping to deliver the Games in the supply chains of down the supply chain. The ODA has this month the ODA’s contractors: the ODA has this month produced produced a map showing how companies across the a map showing how companies across the UK are UK are helping to deliver the games, details of which contributing to the Games, details of which are available are available on the London 2012 website. on the London 2012 website. Businesses interested in supplying the Games should register on CompeteFor, Departmental Telephone Services the electronic brokerage service for Games-related contracts, to date over 4,300 contracts have been made accessible Mr. Oaten: To ask the Minister for the Olympics how in this way. many helplines the Government Olympic Executive operates; how much revenue it has received from the Olympic Games 2012: Countries operation of such helplines in each of the last three years; if she will consider the merits of securing the Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Minister for the Olympics accreditation of such helplines to The Helplines what her most recent estimate is of the number of Association’s quality standard; and if she will make a nations that will compete in the London 2012 (a) statement. [298395] Olympic and (b) Paralympic Games. [296820]

Tessa Jowell: The Government Olympic Executive Tessa Jowell: Today there are 205 National Olympic does not operate any helplines. Committees (NOC). 204 NOCs were represented at the Members: Correspondence 2008 Beijing Olympics, which is the highest number of NOCs ever to take part in an Olympic Games. Miss McIntosh: To ask the Minister for the Olympics There are currently 162 National Paralympic Committees when she plans to reply to Question 291993 on (NPC). 146 nations took part in the 2008 Beijing acquisition of cut Christmas trees, tabled on 9 October Paralympics. 2009. [297487] Olympic Games 2012: Finance Tessa Jowell: I replied to the hon. Member’s question on 4 November 2009, Official Report, column 994W. Mr. Wallace: To ask the Minister for the Olympics what her most recent estimate is of the contribution Olympic and Paralympic Games 2012 from the Exchequer to the costs of the London 2012 Olympics. [297883] Hugh Robertson: To ask the Minister for the Olympics what the reasons are for the increase in the Tessa Jowell: Chapter 20 of the comprehensive spending estimated cost to the public purse of hosting the review (CSR) White Paper, published on 9 October London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games between 2007, announced total grant in aid (within the £9.325 billion) (a) March 2007 and (b) July 2009. [284496] from Government of £1,559/£1,104/£1,050 million in 2008-09 to 2010-11. The distribution of the remaining Tessa Jowell [holding answer 6 July 2009]: The forecast Government contribution (within the £9.325 billion) for final cost of the programme remains within the £9.325 2011-12 to 2013-14 will be confirmed in subsequent billion budget announced in March 2007. spending reviews. The balance of the funding requirement 19W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 20W will be met, as announced in March 2007, by contributions to deliver independently funded news consortia on a from the Mayor of London (GLA and LDA); and from pilot basis to start with to help secure the plurality of the Lottery. nations, local and regional news. Details of progress across the Olympic programme, and sources of funding, can be found in the July 2009 Library Services Quarterly Economic Report on the games. The next Quarterly Economic Report on the games will be published 18. Richard Ottaway: To ask the Secretary of State later this month. for Culture, Media and Sport when he plans to publish Olympic Games 2012: Land his Department’s report on the modernisation of library services. [298028] Hugh Robertson: To ask the Minister for the Olympics what her most recent estimate is of the land Margaret Hodge: We plan to publish the library acquisition and disturbance compensation costs report as a consultation document very soon. We are incurred by the London Development Agency on the grateful for the work of the Library Review Project Board and the Advisory Council on Libraries, which Olympic Park. [296543] provides a good foundation for further discussion of Tessa Jowell [holding answer 29 October 2009]: The key issues and concerns. I now want to consult on these latest London Development Agency (LDA) land issues, with a view to publishing a response and proposals commitments budget was discussed by the LDA Board in the spring. on 16 September 2009. I am arranging for copies of the minutes of that meeting to be deposited in the House BBC Trust Libraries. The minutes can also be found on the LDA website: Mr. Dunne: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, http://www.lda.gov.uk/upload/pdf/Public_Item_02_1_ Media and Sport what recent representations he has Olympic_Land_commitments_ and_revised_budget_2009_10.pdf received on the future of the BBC Trust; and if he will The funding for LDA Olympic land commitments is make a statement. [298022] not part of the £9.325 billion public sector funding package for the games but has always been self-funded Mr. Bradshaw: I regularly receive representations on expenditure. all aspects of the BBC, including the BBC Trust. I have already said that I have concerns about the Corporation’s regulatory structure and I am clear that this must be a key issue for the next Charter review. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Inbound Tourists Arts Council of England: Internet

16. Mr. Swayne: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Culture, Media and Sport what estimate he has made Media and Sport how many page hits have been of the number of inbound tourists in the latest period recorded by the (a) and (b) for which figures are available. [298026] British Film Council website in each year since their creation. [298847] Margaret Hodge: In the three months to August 2009 (the latest period for which figures are available), there Margaret Hodge: The information is as follows: were 7.7 million visits to the UK, an increase of 3 per (a) Arts Council England have supplied the data cent. when compared with the previous three months, below. The figures from the 2009 server log are not yet and a decrease of 5 per cent. when compared with the available. three months to August 2008. Expenditure by overseas visitors in the three months Hits per year to August 2009 was £4.1 billion which increased by 1 per cent. when compared with the previous three months 2004 25,961,462 and increased by 2 per cent. when compared with the 2005 40,205,728 three months to August 2008. 2006 47,773,873 2007 54,871,141 Regional Television News 2008 96,473,086

17. Linda Gilroy: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) The UK Film Council have supplied the data Culture, Media and Sport what recent assessment he below. They undertook a major re-development of their has made of the level of provision of regional website with a new service provider which went live in television news programmes. [298027] January 2008. They have not kept statistics related to the former website and service provider prior to this Mr. Bradshaw: The Government assessed the level date. and importance of regional news on television during the development of the Digital Britain White Paper Hits per year published in June 2009, which was informed by Ofcom’s 2008 26,964,428 second public broadcasting review and statement on 2009 (to date) 23,553,089 short term regulatory decisions. The Government propose 21W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 22W

Arts: Finance broadband to 10,000 homes in Ebbsfleet and have a 40Mbps service pilot scheme to 15,000 homes in Muswell John Barrett: To ask the Secretary of State for Hill and Whitchurch. Culture, Media and Sport what steps he is taking to Other high speed broadband developments include maintain levels of funding for the arts during the H20’s Fibrecity scheme to 88,000 homes in Bournemouth recession. [298014] and Dundee and Redstone’s scheme serving 5,000 homes in Belfast. Margaret Hodge: Government continue to provide strong financial support to the arts throughout the Correspondence Management Unit recession. It is investing nearly £450 million in the arts this year through Arts Council England. This represents John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for a real-terms increase of 83 per cent. since 1997. This Culture, Media and Sport how much his Department will rise to £463 million in 2010-11. spent on employing an independent consultant to Arts Council England have made a swift and innovative review and report on the Correspondence Management response to the economic situation by introducing the Unit in his Department in September 2009. [298159] sustain scheme. This is providing an additional £40 Mr. Bradshaw: Over the summer the Department million to enable arts organisations to continue to provide commissioned an independent consultant to look into a high quality artistic programmes despite the current range of issues across the Department including the economic situation. handling of correspondence. Arts: Young People The cost of this consultancy, at a discounted Government rate, was £9,639.60. Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture Culture, Media and Sport how much his Department has spent on arts bursary awards for people aged under Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for 25 in each of the last five years. [296492] Culture, Media and Sport how much his Department has spent on the UK City of Culture programme in the Margaret Hodge: The Government support awards last 12 months; and if he will make a statement. for young people through the Arts Council and their [297259] Art Award scheme. This scheme enables young people aged 11 to 25 to develop their creative skills. 22,000 Margaret Hodge: In the last 12 months, my Department young people have gained an Art Award since the has spent £55,690 on the UK City of Culture programme. qualification began in 2005. The scheme is growing The programme is intended to encourage bidding cities quickly in popularity with almost 13,000 awards gained to work within existing resources and budgets. DCMS in this calendar year. funding has therefore been used to support bidding Since its inception in 2005, Arts Council England cities so to minimise their local expenditure. This money have spent the following on Art Awards: has been spent on paying expert assessors who work with bidding cities and on hosting events where cities Financial year Total (£) can learn from the success of Liverpool as the European Capital of Culture. 2005-06 350,000 2006-07 550,000 Licensing Act 2003 2007-08 550,000 2008-09 700,000 Susan Kramer: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009-10 772,000 Culture, Media and Sport what timetable he has set for a public consultation on exemptions from the provisions of the Licensing Act 2003 for low risk live Broadband entertainment. [298884]

Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Sutcliffe: We hope to publish the consultation Culture, Media and Sport what percentage of this year and will consult for the usual 12-week period. households in the United Kingdom have access to high-speed broadband internet. [293417] Lithuania

Mr. Timms: I have been asked to reply. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what official visits he has While there is currently no overall percentage figure made to the European Capital of Culture in 2009; and on the number of households in the United Kingdom at what cost to the public purse. [298239] that have access to high speed broadband internet, approximately 12 million households have connection Mr. Bradshaw: None. to fast broadband via Virgin Media’s cable network. This covers approximately 50 per cent. of all UK National Heritage: Expenditure households. BT announced its plans to invest £1.5 billion in a fibre-based super-fast broadband network. Mr. Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, They plan to have the service available to one million Media and Sport how much his Department has spent households by March 2010 and the service should be on its aims related to heritage (a) in cash terms, (b) in available to around 40 per cent. of the UK’s homes and real terms and (c) as a percentage of its annual businesses by 2012. They are currently rolling out super-fast expenditure in each year since 1997. [295337] 23W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 24W

Margaret Hodge [holding answer 26 October 2009]: English Heritage on the designation of the Purton The table was calculated from published outturn figures: Hulks site as an ancient monument since July 2009; and if he will make a statement. [293891] Percentage of annual DCMS FY ending Actual cost (£ Cost in real terms1 voted spend Margaret Hodge: I discussed the protection and 31 March million) (£ million) excluding BBC conservation of the Purton Hulks at a meeting with Baroness Andrews and Simon Thurley of English Heritage 1997-98 398.1 517.8 45 on 13 October. I have also visited the site where the 1998-99 377.9 481.3 43 Friends of Purton presented me with a petition and 1999-2000 390.4 487.7 41 previous correspondence. 2000-01 404.3 498.4 41 2001-02 428.9 517.2 40 English Heritage is still gathering information to help 2002-03 452.8 529.0 39 determine the significance of the Purton Hulks in a 2003-04 483.4 549.3 27 national context, and to inform its advice to the Secretary 2004-05 505.9 559.3 37 of State on their suitability for designation as a scheduled 2005-06 528.9 574.0 36 monument. It is also working with Natural England to 2006-07 568.1 598.9 34 explore how natural heritage designations applying to 2007-08 614.9 629.9 33 the site, including its status as a Site of Special Scientific 2008-09 640.8 640.8 29 Interest, might best take account of its cultural value. 1 Costs in 2008-09 prices. Calculated using GDP deflators A further option would be for the local authority to The table shows that spend on heritage matters has purchase the land under a compulsory purchase order. increased by more than £120 million in real terms since 1997. This spend is primarily attributable to—Churches Conservation Trust, CABE, Chatham Historic Dockyard, RMS Titanic Greenwich Naval College, The Royal Parks, Occupied Royal Palaces, Historic Royal Palaces, Listed Places of Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Worship, Memorial Grant Scheme, National Heritage Culture, Media and Sport if he will bring forward Memorial Fund, English Heritage, Museums and Galleries proposals to mark the 100th anniversary of the sinking and Renaissance in the Regions. of the Titanic. [297661] It should be noted that the percentage decrease in spend on Heritage as a proportion of DCMS voted Margaret Hodge [holding answer 3 November 2009]: spend in 2003-04 reflects one-off additional funding for The Department is aware of the public interest in the the transfer of pension costs across DCMS sectors. As 2012 centenary of the sinking of RMS Titanic. Some an administrative cost, this is included in the total national and regional museums and heritage centres spend but excluded from the proportion of that total have plans to mark the centenary, including the National considered here as ‘aim-related’ Heritage expenditure. Maritime Museum. Southampton, where RMS Titanic The above data have been drawn from the published embarked, and Belfast, where she was built, also plan to DCMS Appropriation accounts and resource accounts, mark the centenary. In 2008 the Heritage Lottery Fund the accounts are audited by NAO. awarded a grant of £50,000 to Northern Ireland Science Ofcom: Internet Park (NISP) for a project based at the Titanic’s Dock and Pump-House in Belfast and also awarded a grant of £174,500 to National Museums Northern Ireland (Ulster Mr. Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Folk and Transport Museum)—towards the development Media and Sport how many page hits have been of‘ its collection “Titanic: Built in Belfast”. recorded by the Ofcom website in each year since its creation. [298846] Sports: Internet Margaret Hodge: The running and maintenance of Ofcom’s website is the responsibility of Ofcom, who operates independently of Government. Mr. Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, I have therefore asked Ofcom’s chief executive to Media and Sport how many page hits have been (a) (b) consider the question raised by the hon. Member and to recorded by the Sports England, UK Sport, (c) (d) write to him direct. Football Foundation and Youth Sport Trust website in each year since their creation. [298848] Copies of the reply will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. Mr. Sutcliffe: The information is as follows: Purton Hulks (a) Sport England (b) UK Sport and (c) the Football Foundation have advised that they hold data on the Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, annual number of page hits to each of their websites for Media and Sport what discussions he has had with the following years, as shown in the table:

Annual number of page hits

Organisation 2006 2007 2008 2009

Sport England — 5,001,019 7,343,919 15,065,702 UK Sport 21,147,092 3,547,455 4,968,305 35,183,788 25W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 26W

Annual number of page hits Organisation 2006 2007 2008 2009

The Football Foundation — 6,757,949 424,888,355 538,613,738 1 Figures relevant to end October 2009. 2 Figures represent data captured between July and December 2006. 3 Figures represent data captured up to 5 November 2009. 4 Figures for the Football Foundation website increased dramatically when in September 2007 the new website was launched to allow applicants to apply for grants on-line. 5 These figures are predicted based on data capture to date.

(d) The Youth Sport Trust have advised that from World Heritage Sites 2007 they introduced a new data capture system and began to record numbers of visitors to its site, rather Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for than page hits. Culture, Media and Sport what support his Department has given to young people’s activity Annual number of visitors connected with UK world heritage sites in the last 1 Organisation 2006 2007 2008 2009 month; and at what cost to the public purse. [297250] The Youth Sport 525,767 362,183 609,426 518,844 trust Margaret Hodge: My Department provided £6,000 1 Figures for 2006 represent page hits. for a conference to promote the UK-wide World Heritage Site education programme conference—‘Making Sense Television: North Yorkshire of Our Sites’ and a further one-day Youth Summit held at the Dorset and East Devon World Heritage Site in Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for May this year. This education programme aims to engage Culture, Media and Sport what recent representations young people with their World Heritage Site. he has received on the reception of analogue television broadcasts in North Yorkshire. [298186] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what official visits he has Mr. Bradshaw: The hon. Member for Vale of York made to each UK world heritage site in the last 12 wrote to my predecessor, my right hon. Friend the months. [298466] Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham), in April this year, on behalf of a constituent, concerning the BBC digital Mr. Bradshaw: I have not visited a UK World Heritage reception in York. Site in an official capacity since my appointment, but I am not aware of any other recent representations on look forward to doing so at the first available opportunity. the reception of analogue television broadcasts in North My predecessor visited the Tower of London World Yorkshire. Heritage Site in November last year.

VisitBritain: Finance

Mr. Don Foster: To ask the Secretary of State for HOME DEPARTMENT Culture, Media and Sport how much Visit Britain has (a) taken in fees for and (b) spent on administering Asylum each of its quality assessment schemes for accommodation businesses in each of the last five years; and what information his Department has obtained on the additional Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for the revenue generated for businesses participating in each Home Department on what date the requirement for of the schemes. [296455] fresh submissions in asylum cases to be dealt with by personal interview in Liverpool will come into force; Margaret Hodge: The Quality Schemes are now the and whether financial assistance will be provided to responsibility of VisitEngland. VisitEngland was established asylum seekers for travel to Liverpool for this purpose. as a separate body on 1 April 2009 and before that date [296183] the quality schemes were the responsibility of VisitBritain. The income and costs figures for the Quality Schemes Mr. Woolas [holding answer 27 October 2009]: On are as follows: 14 October, we introduced a requirement for failed asylum seekers to make further submissions about their 2005-06—Income £2,681,000, Costs £3,988,000 (Actual) case in person, bringing the process in line with the 2006-07—Income £3,976,000, Costs £3,963,000 (Actual) process for making initial applications. 2007-08—Income £4,410,000, Costs £4,254,000 (Actual) Failed asylum seekers who claimed asylum before 2008-09—Income £5,003,000, Costs £4,898,000 (Actual) 5 March 2007 are required to make any further submissions 2009-10—Income £5,300,000, Costs £5,200,000 (Budget) by appointment and in person at Liverpool Further VisitEngland have made no estimate of the additional Submissions Unit. We have been making appointments revenue generated for businesses participating in the from 14 October. schemes. Failed asylum seekers who claimed asylum on or The aim of the schemes is to increase the quality of after 5 March 2007 will be required to make further accommodation in England and thus the profitability submissions in person at a specified reporting centre in and strength of the tourism sector. their region. 27W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 28W

We will not make available travel expenses for people Asylum initial decisions: Cases1, 2 recognised as refugees and granted asylum, excluding dependants, by country of nationality, 2004 to 2008 as a proportion of to travel to Liverpool to make further submissions as total cases granted asylum we do not do so for initial applications. Percentage of total asylum grants, principal applicants Country of Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the nationality 2004 2005 2006 2007 20083 Home Department how many people have been granted asylum in the UK in each of the last five years. Total Americas 1 1 0 0 0 [296245] Algeria 1 0 0 0 0 Mr. Woolas: Information on the number of persons Angola 1 0 0 1 0 granted asylum at the initial decision stage of their Burundi 1 1 0 0 0 application are available from table 2.2 of the Control Cameroon 1 1 1 1 0 of Immigration: Statistics United Kingdom 2008. This Congo 1 0 0 0 — information excludes persons granted humanitarian Dem. Rep. of Congo 4 3 2 2 1 protection and discretionary leave, the outcome of appeals Eritrea 5 29 36 31 31 or other subsequent decisions. Ethiopia 1 1 1 1 0 Information on asylum are published annually and Gambia — 0 0 0 0 quarterly. Annual statistics for 2008 is available from Ghana 0 0 — — — the Library of the House and from the Home Office Ivory Coast 0 1 0 0 — Research, Development and Statistics Directorate website Kenya 0 0 — 0 0 at: Liberia 0 0 0 0 — Libya 1 1 0 0 0 http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum- Nigeria 0 0 0 0 0 stats.html Rwanda 1 — 0 0 0 Sierra Leone 0 0 — 0 0 Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the Somalia 29 34 30 23 13 Home Department what proportion of persons Sudan 8 3 1 2 1 granted asylum in the UK in each of the last five years Tanzania 0 0 — — — were of each nationality. [296290] Uganda 2 1 0 0 0 Mr. Woolas: The following table provides the proportion Zimbabwe 14 4 6 7 14 of persons granted asylum at the initial decision stage Other Africa 1 1 0 1 1 of their application, as a proportion of all persons Total Africa 71 80 80 69 64 granted asylum at their initial stage. This information excludes persons granted humanitarian protection and Iran 5 4466 discretionary leave, the outcome of appeals or other Iraq 1 0145 subsequent decisions. Syria 1 1 1 1 0 Information on asylum is published annually and Other Middle East 1 1 3 3 2 quarterly. Annual statistics for 2008 are available from Total Middle East 7 6 9 13 14 the Library of the House and from the Home Office Research, Development and Statistics Directorate website Afghanistan 2 2 2 2 3 at: Bangladesh — 0 0 0 0 http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum- China (inc. Taiwan) 1 1 1 2 2 stats.html India 0 0 — 0 0 Asylum initial decisions: Cases1, 2 recognised as refugees and granted asylum, Pakistan 4 2 2 2 2 excluding dependants, by country of nationality, 2004 to 2008 as a proportion of Sri Lanka 1 0 0 2 4 total cases granted asylum Vietnam 0 0 0 0 — Percentage of total asylum grants, principal applicants Other Asia and 2 2278 Country of Oceania nationality 2004 2005 2006 2007 20083 Total Asia and 10 7 7 15 18 Albania — 0 — 0 — Oceania Macedonia — — — — — Moldova 0 0 — — 0 Other and not 0 2112 Russia 1 1 1 0 0 known Serbia and 1 0 0 n/a n/a Montenegro4 Grand total 100 100 100 100 100 Turkey 5 2 1 1 0 (percentage) Ukraine 0 — — — — n/a = Not applicable EU Accession 0 ————1 Percentages rounded to the nearest 1 ((—) = 0 per cent., (0) = less than States5 0.5 per cent., but greater than 0 per cent.) and may not sum to the totals Other Former USSR 2 1 1 1 1 shown because of independent rounding. Figures rounded to the nearest five. 2 Initial decisions do not necessarily relate to applications made in the same 4 Other Europe 00000period and exclude the outcome of appeals or other subsequent decisions. Total Europe 10 5 2 2 2 Figures exclude cases granted humanitarian protection and discretionary leave. 3 Provisional figures Colombia 0 0 0 0 0 4 Serbia (inc. Kosovo) and Montenegro counted under “Other Europe” from Ecuador — 0 — — — 2007. 5 EU Accession States: Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Jamaica 0 0 0 0 0 Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia. In 1999 Other Americas 0 0 0 — 0 and 2000 it excludes Malta but includes Cyprus (Northern part of). 29W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 30W

Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr. Alan Campbell: None. Compliance with the relevant Home Department how many asylum seekers were British Standards Institute standards is a matter for subject to age assessment procedures in each of the last local installers and users of CCTV.The National CCTV five years. [297611] Strategy focuses on standards, better training, improved partnership working and more co-ordinated use of Mr. Woolas: The number of individuals whose age technology. We will work with partners at national and was officially recorded as “disputed” in the annual UK local level to ensure that best use is made of CCTV to asylum statistics was as follows: help prevent and detect crime and to help bring offenders to justice. Age disputed cases

2004 2,345 Community Resolutions 2005 2,425 2006 2,270 Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2007 1,915 Home Department how many community resolutions 2008 1,400 have been issued in (a) Staffordshire and (b) England These figures will not include all those whose age has been assessed, since the inception of the scheme. [296818] as we do not record initial “visual” assessments on arrival, either by UKBA staff or social workers assisting them; nor do we record when local authorities conduct age assessments for their own purposes. Mr. Alan Campbell: The information requested is not collected centrally. Community resolutions are not an Asylum: Children identified method of detection in the police recorded crime statistics collected by the Home Office. Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many unaccompanied asylum- Departmental Advertising seeking children from each ethnic group in each local authority area were being looked after by local Mr. Scott: To ask the Secretary of State for the authorities on the latest date for which figures are Home Department how much his Department spent on available. [297490] advertising (a) in the printed press, (b) on television and (c) on radio in each of the last three years. Mr. Woolas: Data on the specific ethnic group of [295207] asylum seeking children are not held centrally. Asylum: Liverpool Mr. Woolas: The following table outlines Home Office spend on advertising in (a) the printed press, (b) on Richard Ottaway: To ask the Secretary of State for television and (c) on radio in each of the last three the Home Department pursuant to the oral answer of years. 26 October 2009, Official Report, column 13, on asylum During this time, the advertising addressed the important applications, whether he plans to end the provision of issues of acquisitive crime reduction, alcohol harm, facilities in Liverpool for face-to-face interviews in respect child protection on the internet, community safety, of applications for asylum. [297458] domestic violence, drug misuse, human trafficking, Mr. Woolas: With effect from 14 October 2009 Liverpool immigration, knife crime, police community support was re-designated to accept further submissions in person officers and immigration. and with face to face interviews but will no longer This advertising spend amounts to less than 1 per accept initial applications for asylum or conduct face to cent. of the Home Office overall budget. In order to face screening interviews. There is a transitional arrangement match resources to priorities we focus on where we will until March 2010, to screen the initial asylum applications get the most impact and value and where we will deliver for a small number of unaccompanied asylum seeking the greatest return on investment. children. Recruitment advertising is not done centrally but Borders: Personal Records carried out across the Department and hence spend could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. : To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many contracts let by his £ Department in the last 12 months were related to the Media 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 e-borders programme; and what the monetary value of Press 1,688,416 1,634,210 2,700,226 each such contract was. [297619] Television 5,412,325 2,434,300 4,756,502 Mr. Woolas: In the last 12 months, there have been no Radio 3,045,302 2,383,202 1,864,940 new contracts let which relate to the e-Borders programme. Departmental Correspondence Closed Circuit Television

James Brokenshire: To ask the Secretary of State for Lynne Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for the the Home Department what recent assessment he has Home Department if he will make it his Department’s made of the proportion of publicly-owned closed circuit policy to use two-sided printing for its correspondence; television systems which comply with (a) relevant British and whether he has made an estimate of the potential Standards Institute standards and (b) provide images savings in respect of paper use consequent on the of a quality suitable for use as evidence in court. [297147] implementation of such a policy. [291880] 31W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 32W

Mr. Woolas: The Home Office is working to reduce Applications Applications Percentage all forms of waste, in line with the Sustainable Operations received refused refused on the Government Estate targets. Accordingly a wide range of initiatives are currently in place within the 2008 2,456,903 441,710 18 Department to minimise the use of paper. Specific Note: examples include: setting printers to print double sided The data are unpublished and should be treated as provisional. by default, making some Home Office publications Source: Central Reference System. available only online and encouraging staff to avoid printing e-mails. Single sided printing may sometimes Mr. Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for the be appropriate and this is an issue we shall continue to Home Department what recent estimate he has made focus on. of the number of people resident in (a) Bexleyheath It is not possible to provide estimated savings generated and Crayford and (b) the London borough of Bexley by the adoption of a policy of two sided printing for who do not have leave to remain in the United correspondence, as records on print volumes are not Kingdom. [297094] held centrally. Deportation Mr. Woolas: The information requested is not available. By its very nature, illegal immigration is exceptionally Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for the difficult to quantify and no government has previously Home Department how many people have taken up been able to produce a definitive figure for the number (a) facilitated return and (b) assisted voluntary return of people who are in the country illegally. in each of the last five years. [297083] By next year, the phased implementation of e-borders will ensure that the vast majority of non-EEA nationals Mr. Woolas: The chief executive of the UK Border will be counted in and out of the UK, with all such Agency has provided the Home Affairs Committee with movements being counted by 2014. regular updates on the number of foreign nationals Local immigration teams are being established to removed under the facilitated returns scheme (FRS) serve every community in the UK. Each team will work since its launch in October 2006. closely with police, local authorities and many other Statistics on the number of foreign nationals removed local partners to target immigration crime, including under the Assisted Voluntary Returns programme for working to detect and remove those who have overstayed. the last five years can be found at: The local immigration team covering the London borough http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum- of Bexley (including Bexleyheath and Crayford) began stats.html operating on 14 September 2009. Deportation: Northern Ireland Entry Clearances: Children Mr. Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many people have been Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the deported from Northern Ireland in each year since Home Department how many children were granted a 2005; and for what reasons. [297646] visa to enter the UK in each of the last five years. [296210] Mr. Woolas: Information relating to the number of individuals deported from a specific area within the UK Mr. Woolas: The total number of children (i.e. persons as well as the reason for deportation can be obtained aged under 18 on the date of application) granted a visa only through the detailed examination of individual to enter the UK in any visa category in each of the last case files which would incur a disproportionate cost. five calendar years is shown in the following table: The chief executive of the UK Border Agency writes to the Home Affairs Committee on a regular basis with Issued the most robust and accurate information on immigration 2004 260,308 issues. Copies of the letters can found in the Library of 2005 287,637 the House. 2006 313,836 Entry Clearances 2007 291,375 2008 274,404 Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the Note: Home Department how many applications for visas to The data are unpublished and should be treated as provisional. enter the UK were refused in each of the last five years. Source: [296209] Central Reference System. Entry Clearances: Fees and Charges Mr. Woolas: The total number of visa applications refused in each of the last five calendar years is shown Sir Peter Soulsby: To ask the Secretary of State for in the following table: the Home Department what criteria govern the currency exchange rates used in High Commissions Applications Applications Percentage received refused refused and embassies in relation to fees charged for visas. [297186] 2004 2,534,532 419,637 I7 2005 2,594,849 460,220 18 Mr. Woolas: Visa fees are payable in local currency. 2006 2,772,599 480,599 I7 The principles for conversion are set by the Consular 2007 2,574,225 471,384 I8 Fee Regulations (1981) which allow for the rate of 33W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 34W exchange to be adjusted in the interests of administrative Immigration efficiency. This is mainly to avoid frequent changes in fees, and to help in giving change, and is the agreed way of translating fees set in sterling by Parliament into Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the local currency. The consular rate of exchange is based Home Department how many immigration cases had on the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s corporate not been resolved on 31 March in each of the last five exchange rate, from which it may vary by up to 10 per years. [296291] cent., and it is kept under regular review to ensure that it stays within the required range. Mr. Woolas: The information requested is not regularly reported on by the UK Border Agency and could be Entry Clearances: Pakistan obtained only at a disproportionate cost through the examination of individual case files and records. Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Immigration Controls the Home Department how many applicants from Pakistan for family settlement visas have won appeals against refusal which have not yet been implemented. Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the [291872] Home Department how many migrants entered the UK under each tier of the points-based immigration Mr. Woolas: The Visa Section in Islamabad has a system in 2008. [294097] total of 1,870 settlement visa cases which require further processing following the allowing of an appeal. There Mr. Woolas: The requested information is provided are further cases (less than 20) in the UK Visa Section, in the following table. which has processed Pakistan settlement visa applications Passengers1,2 entering the United Kingdom under the Points Based since 1 February 2009. System, 20083: United Kingdom Upon notification of the appeal decision, and before Number of journeys the issue of a visa, checks will be made to ensure the applicant still wishes to travel and that there have been Total Points Based System (inc dependants)4 4,300 no material changes in his circumstances since the original Of which: decision. Main applicants Tier 1 Highly Skilled Workers 3,220 Tier 2 Skilled Workers General * Tier 5 Temporary Workers and YouthMobility 25 Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the Total PBS main applicants 3,240 Home Department what discussions have taken place between the Chief Executive of the Forensic Science Dependants Service (FSS) and his Department on the future of the Tier 1 Dependants 1,050 FSS since July 2009. [296011] Tier 5 Dependants 5 Total PBS dependants 1,060 Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 27 October 2009]: 1 Figures rounded to the nearest three significant figures, except As shareholder in the FSS Ltd., it is normal practice for for figures less than 1,000, which are rounded to the nearest 5 (- = 0, * the Home Office Minister to hold regular bilateral = 1 or 2). Figures may not sum to the totals shown because of independent rounding. meetings with the chairman of the FSS (who held the 2 Excludes EEA and Swiss nationals. post of executive chairman, covering both the chairman 3 Provisional figures. and CEO roles until earlier this month) and the chief 4 The phased implementation of Tier 1 of the Points Based System executive. They have met once since July. took place between February 2008—June 2008 and Tiers 2 and 5 were implemented in November 2008. Source: Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the Migration Statistics, Home Office Home Department how many cases each Forensic Science Service centre dealt with in each of the last five Immigration Controls: Ports years. [296013] Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 27 October 2009]: Home Department what proportion of private vehicles Each of the Forensic Science Service laboratories has entering the UK were searched by UK Border Agency dealt with the following number of cases in each of the officials at the (a) Hull, (b) Dover, (c) Portsmouth last five years. and (d) Southampton port of entry in the latest period for which figures are available. [297615] 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Chepstow 7,108 5,995 6,394 6,492 5,721 Mr. Woolas: It is not possible to provide accurate Chorley 29,890 27,710 23,596 21,766 20,455 figures relating to the number of private vehicles searched Birmingham 12,999 7,014 7,273 6,452 5,710 at UK ports. Records relating to vehicle searches do not Priory routinely reflect whether the vehicle is privately owned. Wetherby 9,658 9,811 9,644 9,922 10,643 Huntingdon 51,100 60,197 52,675 45,614 40,415 It is not possible to provide the proportion of vehicles London 16,623 18,087 15,766 12,911 13,279 searched by the UK Border Agency at UK ports without excessive bureaucracy and disproportionate cost. 35W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 36W

Immigration: Tibet Mr. Woolas: In response to the letters of 20 July and 9 September 2009, the deputy director for family and Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for the economic migration of the London and south east Home Department how many individuals of Tibetan region wrote to the hon. Member on 29 October 2009. origin have been (a) granted and (b) refused (i) asylum and (ii) indefinite leave to remain in each year since 1997. [296882] DEFENCE

Mr. Woolas: The requested information is unavailable. Afghanistan: Armed Forces Information on asylum and settlement is published annually and quarterly. Annual statistics for 2008 and Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence statistics for Q2 2009 are available from the Library of what percentage of the current roulement were unable the House and from the Home Office Research, to complete pre-deployment training prior to Development and Statistics Directorate web site at: deployment in Afghanistan. [297930] http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum- Mr. Bob Ainsworth: No armed forces personnel deploy stats.html to Afghanistan without being fully trained for the job Robbery they are required to do. Pre-deployment training is mandatory for all personnel. The quantity and nature : To ask the Secretary of State for of this training varies between individuals and units the Home Department what recent estimate he has depending on existing skill levels and the role to be made of cash-in-transit robberies; and what common filled on deployment. characteristics of such crimes his Department has Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations identified. [297149] Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Mr. Alan Campbell: The Government have been working what plans there are for the deployment of the very closely with key stakeholders from the police, Gibraltar regiment to Afghanistan; and if he will make security and banking industries, the retail sector and the a statement. [296910] trade unions on the tackling of cash in transit robberies and through this partnership approach have developed Bill Rammell [holding answer 2 November 2009]: The a good understanding of the extent and nature of these primary role of the Royal Gibraltar Regiment is to offences. Through this work we are aware that there support the defence and security of Gibraltar. Deployments were 1,000 cash in transit attacks in 2008. A wide in support of other tasks have been undertaken by variety of data is shared among these stakeholders individual volunteers; 15 personnel from the Royal Gibraltar including not only police intelligence but also data from Regiment have deployed on operations in Afghanistan the British Security Industry Association on the number between August 2004 and February 2009. Since then of cash in transit robberies that take place on a daily there has been a temporary suspension in volunteers basis, the location of these offences, the type of premises being deployed while we investigated a potential issue attacked and the time of day that they take place. This with compensation arrangements covering such data helps to inform the action that needs to be taken deployments. The Royal Gibraltar Regiment are entitled by ourselves and our partners to tackle these offences. to compensation benefits under their own terms and Small Retailer Grant Fund conditions of service including when deployed to Afghanistan. Work has commenced to bring these Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for the compensation arrangements in line with the Armed Home Department how many grants from the Small Forces Compensation Scheme through legislation. The Retailer Grant Fund have been (a) applied for and (b) temporary suspension has now been lifted. awarded since the fund’s inception; and what average Armed Forces: Hepatitis C amount has been awarded. [296075] Mr. Breed: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 28 October 2009]: what estimate he has made of the number of service The grants administrator for the Small Retailers Capital personnel who contracted hepatitis C virus through Grants Fund has received 1,851 small grant, and treatment in hospital in each of the last 30 years. 95 partnership grant, applications. [298065] The applications are still being assessed and therefore no awards have yet been made. Mr. Kevan Jones: It is estimated that the number of Applicants for the fund could receive up to £3,000 for such cases in the UK in recent years is very small, but individuals and up to £50,000 for partnerships. definitive information is not held centrally. To provide the information requested would require the identification UK Border Agency: Correspondence and examination of the individual medical records of service patients who contracted hepatitis C and had Mr. Hands: To ask the Secretary of State for the received in-patient treatment in any hospital worldwide Home Department when the UK Border Agency plans during the last 30 years. Such records should only be to respond to the letters of 20 July and 9 September viewed for non-clinical reasons with the express consent 2009 from the hon. Member for Hammersmith and of each individual concerned in order to protect patient Fulham sent on behalf of his constituent Mrs Brenda confidentiality, and the information could therefore be Williams. [297118] obtained only at disproportionate cost. 37W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 38W

Armed Forces: Housing as a result of the closure of British Forces Post Offices at (a) SHAPE, (b) Brussels, (c) Brunssum, (d) Ramstein, Mr. Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for (e) Stavanger, (f) Karup, (g) Rome, (h) Milan, (i) Defence how much the London living-out allowance Lisbon, (j) Valencia and (k) Norfolk, Virginia; and if cost his Department in each year from 1992 until the he will make a statement. [298073] end of that scheme. [297384] Mr. Kevan Jones: Basic Forces Post Office services Mr. Kevan Jones: We have been unable to locate any will be retained at the locations stated. When families records corresponding to a “London living-out allowance” are posted to locations which do not have access to the and therefore cannot provide the costs to the Department. full Forces Post Office service, their local overseas allowance is calculated to take account of the increased expense of In 1997 living allowances were reviewed and over using the international postal service. This also reflects time have become progressively harmonised. At that the charges levied by mail order companies posting out time allowances for London consisted of London allowance, to international locations, including the cost of delivery lodging allowance and meals out allowance. Costs services which provide secure delivery of mail or parcels. attributable to each of these allowances are not held centrally and could be obtained only by searches of Armed Forces: Secondment legacy systems and manual records thus incurring disproportionate costs. Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for London allowances currently consist of recruitment Defence how many UK military personnel are (a) on and retention allowance (London), for all those service secondment to foreign governments and (b) on personnel that work within five miles of Charing Cross, attachment to the armed forces of other countries. and food and incidental allowance for those personnel [291974] living in substitute service single accommodation. Bill Rammell: The information required is not held in Armed Forces: Pensions the exact format requested. However, as at 1 November 2009, some 580 military personnel are either on loan, Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for secondment or part of an individual exchange, with Defence whether a retired former regular member of other Governments or Armed Forces. An additional the armed forces who is now a member of the regular 147 military personnel fill Defence Attache posts. reserve force is entitled to additions to the existing Armed Forces: Training pension on completion of additional service. [298468] Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Mr. Kevan Jones: Former members of the regular what the (a) required, (b) actual and (c) fit for task armed forces who undertake a period of mobilised strength of each corps of the Army is. [297924] reserve service are eligible for membership of the Reserve Forces Pension Scheme (RFPS). Under this scheme, all Bill Rammell: In the following table “required strength” benefits accrued will be paid at age 60 for those who and “actual strength” figures are shown as “funded serve until the age of 60. If they leave before aged 60, liability” and “trained strength” respectively. their benefits will be preserved and paid at age 65. All figures shown in the table are from the Army Under the RFPS periods of mobilised reserve service Personnel Statistics Report (APSR), published on the cannot be added to an existing armed forces pension. Defence Analytical Services and Advice (DASA) website: Armed Forces: Postal Services www.dasa.mod.uk APSR data is derived from the Joint Personnel Mr. Breed: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Administration (JPA) system. if he will make an assessment of the merits of subsidising As at 1 September 2009 figures for the Regular Army overseas postage costs for British forces personnel incurred are provided in the following table.

Organisation Funded liability Trained strength1

Staff 763 840 Royal Armoured Corps 5,772 5,810 Royal Artillery 7,476 7,570 Royal Engineers 9,529 9,290 Royal Signals 8,319 7,630 Infantry 24,519 23,980 Army Air Corps 2,047 2,120 Royal Army Chaplains Department 148 130 Royal Logistics Corps 15,848 15,190 Royal Army Medical Corps 3,190 2,990 Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers 9,820 9,580 Adjutant General’s Corps Provost 1,756 1,700 Staff and Personnel Support 3,911 3,530 39W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 40W

Organisation Funded liability Trained strength1

Military Provost Service 101 110 Educational and Training Services 344 340 Army Legal Services 114 100 Unknown2 —60 Royal Army Veterinary Corps 222 310 Small Arms School Corps 151 150 Royal Army Dentistry Corps 436 380 Intelligence Corps 1,648 1,450 Army Physical Training Corps 448 460 Queen Alexandra’s Royal Auxiliary Nursing Corps 1,136 840 Corps of Army Music 901 810 1 Trained Strength figures are rounded. 2 These are trained members of the AGC who, due to data input errors in the JPA system, are not allocated to a sub Regimental Corps.

Not recorded in the table are Long Service List (LSL) £ soldiers and Gurkhas. LSL are those soldiers who have FY completed over 22 years’ service and have extended Inquiry FY 2006-07 FY 2007-08 2008-09 their commitment to Army. LSL are treated as a cap badge in their own right for career management purposes. The Rosemary Nelson n/a 35,106 99,466 As at 1 September 2009, LSL funded liability was 570, Inquiry and trained strength 500. Current Gurkha liability is The Billy Wright Inquiry n/a 12,149 4,118 2,991. Gurkha Trained strength is currently 3,499. n/a = Not available. The costs incurred for the Rosemary Nelson and “Fit for Task” has been interpreted as fit to deploy Billy Wright Inquiries in 2006-07 were not recorded for any form of duty on deployment, including personnel separately from other work carried out by the same listed as having limited deployability. Data is calculated solicitors and cannot be individually identified. Other from Personnel Unable to Deploy (PUD) which is costs to the MOD arising from these inquiries are not derived from unit returns and includes Gurkha manpower. recorded separately. As at 1 October, Infantry “Fit for Task” strength, In addition, the MOD incurred legal and other costs excluding 1 Parachute Regiment was 20,340. Royal Armoured arising from the Nimrod Review in 2008-09. Corps “Fit for Task” strength (excluding 1 Royal Tank Regiment (RTR)—element belonging to Joint Chemical, Armoured Fighting Vehicles Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment—and Household Cavalry Mounted Regiment) was 4,328. Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence “Fit for Task” figures for other corps are not held how many broken axles were recorded for each centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate armoured vehicle type deployed in (a) Afghanistan cost. and (b) Iraq in each year since 2006. [297931] As funded liability and trained strength data is collected at different times on a different basis for different purposes Mr. Quentin Davies: I refer the hon. Member to the to fit for task data, comparisons between the two data answer the Secretary of State for Defence gave on sets may be misleading. 22 June 2009, Official Report, column 624W. Army: Manpower Armed Forces: Tribunals Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mrs. Humble: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Defence what the (a) trained strength, (b) actual on which tribunals of inquiry his Department was strength and (c) numbers fit for duty is of the (i) Royal represented in (a) 2006, (b) 2007 and (c) 2008; on Regiment of Scotland, (ii) Scots Guards, (iii) Royal what occasions his Department was legally represented; Scots Dragoon Guards, (iv) 1st Royal Tank Regiment, and what his estimate is of the cost to his Department (v) 19th Regiment Royal Artillery and (vi) 40th of each such inquiry in each such year. [294994] Regiment Royal Artillery. [296035]

Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The MOD incurred the costs Bill Rammell: As at 1 October 2009, the figures were: shown for legal representation at three statutory public inquiries, which have replaced tribunals of inquiries, in Trained 2006, 2007 and 2008. Most of the costs were for legal Unit requirement Actual strength Fit for duty representation for former and current soldiers, rather Royal Regiment of 3,230 2,825 2,806 than the MOD itself. Scotland Scots Guards 753 665 664 £ Royal Scots 589 511 510 Dragoon Guards FY Inquiry FY 2006-07 FY 2007-08 2008-09 19th Regt RA 552 569 560 40th Regt RA 467 502 497 The 305,206 269,962 174,300 41W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 42W

Figures for 1 RTR, an element of which forms part of Name of site Constituency a tri-service organisation, are not held centrally and can be provided only at disproportionate cost. NATO POL Depot Loch Striven Argyll and Bute “Trained Requirement” has been interpreted as the Ru Stafnish Radio Station Argyll and Bute maximum number of trained posts in a battalion’s Tiree Comms Site Argyll and Bute peace time configuration. DSCA Radio Brown Carrick Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock “Actual strength” has been interpreted as the number RAF Buchan Banff and Buchan of personnel assigned to a battalion for its planned Mormond Hill Comms Site Banff and Buchan duties. It will also include augmentees who are temporarily ISS Radio Crimond Banff and Buchan assigned if needed to support the role of the battalion Dunion Hill Mould Comms Site Berwickshire, Roxburgh and (for operational military tasks and events that cannot Selkirk be achieved within required strengths). Similarly, the Cape Wrath Bombing Range Caithness, Sutherland and figures exclude those assigned out of the battalion to Easter Ross augment other units. Invergordon Burial Rights Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross “Fit for duty” has been interpreted as fit for primary Vulcan Naval Reactor Test Caithness, Sutherland and role, including personnel listed as having limited Establishment Easter Ross deployability, plus personnel who are unfit for deployment Tain Training Area DTE Caithness, Sutherland and but who can perform a role in an alternative capacity. Easter Ross The difference between the Actual Strength and Number Old Man of Wick Rifle Range Caithness, Sutherland and Fit for Duty represents those who are medically non- Easter Ross effective, i.e. are unfit for any form of duty. Wyvis Training Area Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross/Ross, Skye and Defence: Scotland Lochaber Dundonald Hill Comms Site Central Ayrshire HMS Gannet Central Ayrshire Mr. Davidson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Procurement Agency Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale Defence pursuant to the answer of 26 October 2009, Seismic Stations Eskdalemuir and Tweeddale Official Report, columns 31-3W, on defence: Scotland, Eastriggs Storage Depot Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale what defence establishments in Scotland are presently and Tweeddale operated by his Department in each parliamentary Green Lowther Hill Radio Station Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale constituency. [298459] and Tweeddale Ballscalloch Radio Station Dumfries and Galloway Mr. Kevan Jones: The following table lists Ministry of Castle Kennedy Training Area Dumfries and Galloway Defence sites in Scotland by parliamentary constituency. Cambret Hill Mould Site Dumfries and Galloway It should be noted that this list does not include the Volunteer Estate, Army Career and Information Offices, Kirkcudbright Training Area Dumfries and Galloway Armed Forces Careers Offices or Service Family West Freugh Dumfries and Galloway Accommodation. Galloway Training Area Dumfries and Galloway/Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock Name of site Constituency Barry Buddon Training Camp Dundee East Burgh Craigowl Hill Mould and Comms Dundee West Burgh Kirk O Shotts Mould and Comms Airdrie and Shotts Site Site DMC Crombie Dunfermline and West Fife Royal Marines Condor Angus HMS Caledonia Dunfermline and West Fife Royal Naval Armament Depot Argyll and Bute Coulport DE Rosyth Dunfermline and West Fife Defence Munitions Centre (DMC) Argyll and Bute DE South Arm Rosyth Dunfermline and West Fife Glen Douglas Edinburgh Castle Edinburgh East Burgh Ardgarten Training Area Argyll and Bute Dreghorn Barracks Edinburgh South West Blarbuie Rifle Range Argyll and Bute Inchdrewer House Edinburgh South West Clynder Comms Site Argyll and Bute Redford Cavalry Barracks Edinburgh South West Colonsay Comms Site Argyll and Bute Redford Infantry Barracks Edinburgh South West Loch Fyne Argyll and Bute Kirknewton Airfield Edinburgh South West Loch Goil Argyll and Bute Castlelaw Ranges Edinburgh South West and Oil Fuel depot Garelochhead Argyll and Bute Midlothian Finnart Ocean Terminal Argyll and Bute Craigiehall Edinburgh West Burgh Garelochead Training Area Argyll and Bute Cerium Building Glasgow Central Burgh Islay Comms Site Argyll and Bute Kentigern House Glasgow Central Burgh Rhu Port Logistics Unit Argyll and Bute Museum RHF Glasgow Glasgow Central Burgh Defence Estates (DE) Argyll and Bute Black Dog Range Gordon Machrihanish Scotstown Moor Gordon Mullach Dubh Comms Site Argyll and Bute Cameron Barracks Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch Iss Radio Meall Mor Argyll and Bute and Strathspey Camrhu Monitor Station Argyll and Bute Fort George Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch Mull Communications Site Argyll and Bute and Strathspey Her Majesty’s Naval Base Clyde Argyll and Bute Foyers Comms Site Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch NATO POL Depot Campbeltown Argyll and Bute and Strathspey 43W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 44W

Mr. Bob Ainsworth: Following my appointment as Name of site Constituency Defence Secretary on 5 June 2009, I visited the Royal Inverness Training Camp Kingussie Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch Centre for Defence Medicine, Selly Oak, on 2 July. I abd Strathspey also visited both the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine Greenock Navy Buildings Inverclyde and the Defence Medical Rehabilitation Centre a number ISS Radio Greenock Inverclyde of times when I was Minister for the Armed Forces. Burntisland Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath Ministers have offered to attend repatriations on Craigkelly Comms Site Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath many occasions but have deferred to the advice of the Cullaloe Hills NATO Relay Station Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath Service Chiefs that these ceremonies are very much an Glencorse Barracks Midlothian occasion for the families and the military to pay their Burgie Hill Radio Station Moray respects. RAF Kinloss Moray RAF Lossiemouth Moray Departmental Electronic Equipment RAF Aird Uig Na h-Eileanan an Iar DE Hebrides Na h-Eileanan an Iar Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many of his Department’s (a) computers, (b) RAF Benbecula Na h-Eileanan an Iar laptops and (c) memory sticks were (i) lost and (ii) Isle of Lewis Mould and Comms Na h-Eileanan an Iar Site stolen in each month in 2009 to date. [297939] Barvas Rifle Range Na h-Eileanan an Iar Mr. Kevan Jones: The MOD takes any loss of Stornoway DRDF Site Na h-Eileanan an Iar information and associated media storage devices very DMC Beith North Ayrshire and Arran seriously and has robust procedures in place to mitigate RAF Leuchars North East Fife against such occurrences. New processes, instructions Tighnablair Training Area Ochil and South Perthshire and technological aids are also being implemented to Collafirth Hill Forward Scatter Site Orkney and Shetland mitigate human errors and raise awareness of every Fair Isle Mould Comms Site Orkney and Shetland individual in the Department. Rams Dale Range Orkney and Shetland The following table details how many computers, RAF Saxa Vord Orkney and Shetland laptops and USB flash memory devices were reported UGSAS Glasgow Paisley and Renfrewshire as lost and stolen in each month in 2009. North Balduff Training Area Perth and North Perthshire Lost/stolen CIS for 2009 Pitlochry Mould and Comms Site Perth and North Perthshire Device type Lost Stolen Aultbea Training Camp Ross, Skye and Lochaber January Laptops 1 10 Applecross Ross, Skye and Lochaber Desktop Computers 1 4 Rona Ross, Skye and Lochaber USB Flash Memory 41 Kyle of Lochalsh Ross, Skye and Lochaber Devices Glendocherty Mould and Comms Ross, Skye and Lochaber Site February Laptops 2 2 Inverness Training Camp Ross, Skye and Lochaber Desktop Computers 6 1 Dundonnell Inverness Training Camp Tulloch Ross, Skye and Lochaber USB Flash Memory 30 Devices Balmacara House Ross, Skye and Lochaber Kinlochleven Training Area Ross, Skye and Lochaber March Laptops 5 4 Loch Eyenort Comms Site Ross, Skye and Lochaber Desktop Computers 0 2 Loch Ewe Training Area Ross, Skye and Lochaber USB Flash Memory 10 NATO POL Depot Loch Ewe Ross, Skye and Lochaber Devices Forthside Stirling Stirling HQ 51 Highland Brigade Forthside Stirling April Laptops 4 7 Queen Victoria School Stirling Desktop Computers 0 0 Stirling Castle RHQ and Museum Stirling USB Flash Memory 15 1 DSG Forthside Stirling Devices ISS Radio Bruxie Hill West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine May Laptops 1 8 Victoria Barracks West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine Desktop Computers 2 1 USB Flash Memory 12 Devices

Departmental Domestic Visits June Laptops 2 6 Desktop Computers 0 0 USB Flash Memory 20 Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State Devices for Defence how many visits he has made to (a) repatriation ceremonies for the remains of servicemen, July Laptops 3 5 (b) the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine, Selly Oak Desktop Computers 0 4 and (c) the Defence Medical Rehabilitation Centre USB Flash Memory 90 Headley Court in the course of his official duties since Devices his appointment. [298403] 45W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 46W

Lost/stolen CIS for 2009 Departmental Travel Device type Lost Stolen

August Laptops 4 19 Norman Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for Desktop Computers 0 0 Defence how many miles (a) Ministers and (b) USB Flash Memory 30officials in his Department travelled by (i) car, (ii) rail Devices and (iii) air on Government business in each year since 1997. [298539] September Laptops 2 1 Desktop Computers 0 2 Mr. Kevan Jones: This information is not held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. USB Flash Memory 30 Devices Nuclear Submarines

October Laptops 1 4 Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Desktop Computers 0 0 Defence for what reasons his Department has decided USB Flash Memory 11 Devices to reduce the radius of the emergency pre-planning zone around a berthed nuclear-powered submarine from two kilometres to 1.5 kilometres. [297796] November (as of 2 Laptops 0 0 November 2009) Desktop Computers 0 0 Bill Rammell: Any decision to reduce the radius of an emergency planning zone is not made by the Ministry USB Flash Memory 00 Devices of Defence. The Health and Safety Executive’s nuclear installations Total Laptops 25 66 inspectorate is the national authority responsible for Desktop Computers 9 14 determining the radius of the emergency planning zone. The radius is based on assessments of the hazards USB Flash Memory 42 5 Devices associated with berthing nuclear submarines, as submitted by the Ministry of Defence, to meet the requirements of Departmental Finance the Radiation (Emergency Preparedness and Public Information) Regulations 2001 (REPPIR 2001). Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Reserve Forces what the estimated monetary value was of his Department’s spare parts which have been lost in Dr. Murrison: To ask the Secretary of State for transit in each year since 2001. [297944] Defence what niche reserve forces skills have been identified as having the potential to contribute to Mr. Quentin Davies: Data on losses is not held in the projects undertaken by the Department for format requested, to enable the separate identification International Development. [297524] of ‘spare parts’. This information could therefore be provided only at disproportionate cost. Bill Rammell: Over recent months, the Department has been working closely with DFID on how reservists Departmental Pay can contribute to stabilisation operations. The two Departments are developing a framework for reservist Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence employment that includes the identification of necessary how much has been paid in bonuses to civil servants in niche skills from 14 functional areas ranging from security his Department in each year since 1997. [297929] to reconstruction. This work is expected to conclude over the next few months. Mr. Kevan Jones: Total amounts of all types of bonus Reserve Forces: Manpower paid to MOD civilian personnel in each financial year since 2003-04 are provided in the following table: Mr. Gerald Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State Bonus total (£) for Defence what the (a) required and (b) actual strength of the (i) Territorial Army, (ii) Royal Marines 2003-04 24,866,213 Reserves, (iii) Royal Naval Reserve and (iv) Royal 2004-05 34,106,162 Auxiliary Air Force is. [289999] 2005-06 43,317,178 2006-07 39,147,749 Bill Rammell: I refer the hon. Member to the Ministry 2007-08 46,103,238 of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2008-09 which 2008-09 52,984,656 was laid before Parliament on 21 July 2009. 2009-10 47,283,853 Reserve Forces: Training Figure for 2009-10 is a partial year figure covering the period 1 April 2009 to 31 October 2009. Mr. Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State We are unable to provide details of bonus payments for Defence whether he expects any changes to paid during the period April 1997 to March 2003 as the Territorial Army operational training in Northern data is no longer available electronically and could be Ireland to result from the restoration of the training provided only at disproportionate cost. budget. [298599] 47W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 48W

Bill Rammell: The Government have repeatedly made Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The UK has no plans to arm its clear that no one in the armed forces will deploy on Trident missiles with conventional warheads or to operations without being trained for the role they are participate in the United States’ Conventional Trident being asked to perform. Training for Territorial Army Modification programme. (TA) personnel preparing for mobilisation was specifically exempted from the decision to reduce TA activity for Unmanned Air Vehicles the remainder of the current financial year. Neither this decision, nor the subsequent decision to restore training for all TA personnel this year, has therefore affected the Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence preparations of those in the TA who are currently how many unmanned aerial vehicles of each type are earmarked for operations. (a) in service and (b) operationally deployable. [297925] Review of Defence Airfields Mr. Quentin Davies: There are 176 Desert Hawk III unmanned air vehicles (UAVs) in service. Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if The Hermes 450 UAV capability is procured on a he will implement the recommendations of the service provision basis. The service specifies the number Tri-Service Review of Defence Airfields in the United of flying hours to be provided, not the number of air Kingdom. [297901] vehicles. The service is, however, currently supported by 10 air vehicles. Bill Rammell: We have implemented a number of recommendations from the Tri-Service Review of Defence Four Reaper UAVs have been delivered into service, Airfields in the United Kingdom. Other findings from one of which was lost on operations in April 2008. Two this work have been taken into account when drawing others are on order. up future plans for the defence estate. These are kept I am withholding information on the number of under constant review to ensure that the best use is UAVs that are operationally deployable as its disclosure made of the defence estate for our armed forces. would, or would be likely to prejudice the capability, effectiveness or security of the armed forces. Territorial Army: Deployment

Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many Territorial Army personnel have been TRANSPORT mobilised for three or more overseas deployments. [297895] A1: Speed Limits

Bill Rammell: Territorial Army personnel are protected Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Minister of State, by the Reserve Forces Act 1996 which restricts a reservist Department for Transport for what reason a temporary from being re-mobilised for a specified period depending 50 mph speed limit has been introduced on the A1 at upon the operation on which they have served. Wyboston at times when no road works are taking Information on the number of personnel mobilised place and no lanes are coned off; on what date the for three or more deployments is not held centrally and temporary speed limit was introduced; what the reason could be provided only at disproportionate cost. is for the duration of the restriction; for what reasons the limit has been in place for several weeks; and if he Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence will make a statement. [298246] how many personnel in the Territorial Army are liable to be deployed on service overseas. [297897] Chris Mole: This temporary 50 mph speed limit came into effect on the A1 between Wyboston and the junction Bill Rammell: As of 1 September 2009 the strength of for Little Paxton on Friday 4 September to coincide the Territorial Army was 34,380. Of these approximately with the start of the A1 Eaton Socon Bypass resurfacing 19,000 had completed phase 2 training, were not bound scheme. Most of the works are undertaken at night or at by limitations of the Reserve Forces Act 1996 and were weekends and the limit will remain in place until the therefore available for mobilisation, subject to their completion of the works in December 2009. being releasable from their civilian commitments and The speed limit is permanently in force for safety completing additional pre deployment training. The reasons since there can still be incomplete safety fencing, figure of 19,000 does not include the 1,200 TA personnel temporary road surfaces, raised iron work and unprotected currently mobilised in support of operations. The figure drainage ditches on both the northbound and southbound of 34,380 includes University Officer Training Corps carriageways. In addition, the workforce can still be Cadets who are, of course, non deployable. present on the road at any time carrying out routine tasks such as surveying and preparation work for the Trident next carriageway closure. The Highways Agency has concluded that the speed Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for limits need to be in place for the duration of the works, Defence whether his Department plans to (a) given these safety reasons and that it would not be participate in the US Navy Conventional Trident practicable to keep removing and reinstating the speed Modification programme and (b) equip Trident limit to reflect whatever is happening on site at any missiles with conventional warheads. [298617] given time. 49W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 50W

A1079: Repairs and Maintenance economic analysis regarding our 2020 renewable transport energy targets. The potential uptake of different renewable Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Minister of State, transport fuels, including high blends of biofuel will be Department for Transport what recent assessment his assessed as part of this analysis. This will inform our Department has made of the state of the A1079 in East National Action Plan, due for publication next summer, Yorkshire; and what plans he has to upgrade it. in which the Department will set out a clear strategy for [298250] meeting our targets. Cycling: Accidents Mr. Khan: The Department for Transport has not made any assessment of the state of the A1079 in East Yorkshire and has no plans to upgrade it. As a local Annette Brooke: To ask the Minister of State, authority road this is the responsibility of the East Department for Transport how many people aged (a) Riding of Yorkshire council. 16 years and under and (b) over 16 years (i) received serious head injuries and (ii) died as a result of Airports accidents involving bicycles in each year since 2003. [297964] Mr. Amess: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport when he plans to publish his national Paul Clark: The number of people aged (a) 16 years policy statement within the framework envisaged by old and under and (b) over 16 years old killed or the Planning Act 2008 on airports; what recent seriously injured as a result of personal injury road representations he has received on this issue; what accidents involving bicycles between 2003-08 (the latest recent discussions he has had on this issue; and if he year for which figures are available) is given in the table. will make a statement. [298268] Reported casualties1, killed or seriously injured in personal injury road accidents involving pedal cycles, by age, Great Britain, 2003-08 Paul Clark: The Department for Transport plans to Killed Seriously injured publish a draft National Policy Statement on Airports 17 and 17 and by 2011 with a view to designating it later that year. I 0-16 over Total2 0-16 over Total2 have had no recent representations or discussions specifically 2003 20 99 120 646 1,717 2,404 on this issue. 2004 25 114 139 615 1,626 2,275 Airports: Expansion 2005 25 131 157 573 1,710 2,334 2006 34 118 153 547 1,826 2,415 2007 16 125 142 591 1,900 2,543 Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what representations he has 2008 16 103 119 462 2,049 2,559 1 Includes pedal cyclists and other casualties. received from hon. and right hon. Members of each 2 Includes casualties where age was unknown or unspecified. party in favour of (a) a third runway at Heathrow Information on people who received serious head Airport, (b) a second runway at Gatwick Airport, (c) injuries as a result of a cycling accident is not available. further expansion of Stansted Airport and (d) anew airport in the Thames Estuary. [298409] Departmental Advertising

Paul Clark: No central records are held on any such Mr. Scott: To ask the Minister of State, Department representations and to search for the information would for Transport how much his Department spent on involve disproportionate cost. advertising (a) in the printed press, (b) on television Bedford Station and (c) on radio in each of the last three years. [295206]

Patrick Hall: To ask the Minister of State, Chris Mole: The majority of press, television and Department for Transport when he expects Bedford radio advertising media investment by the Department station to have capacity for 12 carriage trains as a result for Transport is in support of the THINK! road safety of the Thameslink programme. [299196] and the Act on CO2 campaigns. Major advertising investment by executive agencies has been by the Driver Chris Mole: is currently forecasting and Vehicle Licensing Agency, in support of Electronic that work to enable 12 car operation at Bedford station Vehicle Licensing, Sale of Marks and Vehicle Excise will be complete by late 2011. This will enable a 12 car Enforcement (Continuous Registration). service to operate on this route from December 2011 as originally planned. The information sought is not held in the format requested by all parts of the Department and can be Biofuels: Carbon Emissions provided only at disproportionate cost. Information available is included in the following table: Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what his assessment is of the £000 potential contribution of users of high blend biodiesel 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 towards the UK’s energy target of a 34 per cent. (a) Printed press advertising reduction in greenhouse gases by 2020. [296796] DfT(C) 2,136 2,184 1,105 DSA 148 91 43 Mr. Khan: The Department for Transport is currently DVLA n/a n/a n/a engaging with stakeholders, and undertaking wide ranging 51W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 52W

initiative that is underway (A) started and (B) is expected £000 to be completed; what the purpose is of each; and what 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 the estimated cost of each is. [298340] GCDA n/a n/a n/a HA n/a 117 41 Chris Mole: Details of the Department for Transport’s MCA 71 50 73 current consultations and reviews have been placed in VCA n/a n/a n/a the Libraries of the House. The Department has no VOSA 0 0 0 taskforces. Information about the cost of each consultation and (b) Television advertising review is not held centrally and could be obtained only DfT(C) 5,171 8,002 8,171 at disproportionate cost. DSA 0 0 0 DVLA n/a n/a n/a GCDA 0 0 0 Driving: Licensing HA 0 0 0 MCA 4 15 13 VCA n/a n/a n/a Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how many driving licences VOSA 0 0 0 were suspended following the accumulation of penalty points in each of the last five calendar years. [298251] (c) Radio advertising DfT(C) 2,578 2,511 3,089 Paul Clark: The requested data are only available for DSA 0 0 41 the last four years: DVLA n/a n/a n/a GCDA 0 0 0 Number HA n/a 40 66 MCA 0 0 0 Driving licence disqualifications through totting-up 12 penalty points VCA n/a n/a n/a 2006 41,035 VOSA 0 0 0 2007 34,965 Marketing advertising expenditure across all media 2008 32,568 types is available and is set out in the following table for 2009 to date 20,659 each of the last three years. Marketing advertising expenditure Driving licences revoked under the New Drivers Act with six or more penalty points £000 2006 17,273 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2007 18,691 DfT(C) 16,395 15,611 16,588 2008 18,417 DSA 148 91 530 2009 to date 6,999 DVLA 7,098 7,716 9,484 GCDA <1 0 3 Total of penalty point disqualifications and revocations HA 229 157 295 2006 58,308 MCA 74 66 86 2007 53,656 VCA 23 24 19 2008 50,985 VOSA 0 0 0 2009 to date 27,658

Departmental Postal Services Driving: Mobile Telephones Mr. Scott: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what percentage of postal services provided for his Department and its agencies were provided by Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, (a) Royal Mail and (b) other postal service providers Department for Transport if he will estimate the (i) in 2007, (ii) in 2008, (iii) between 1 January and 1 number of drivers who regularly use a mobile July 2009 and (iv) after 1 July 2009. [298727] telephone while driving. [298367]

Chris Mole: The requested information is not available Paul Clark: No such estimate has been undertaken in the format requested and could be obtained only at but the Department for Transport undertakes an annual disproportionate cost. observational survey of drivers using mobile phones. The results of the most recent survey in September 2008 Departmental Responsibility are summarised in the answer provided to the hon. Member by my predecessor the hon. Member for Poplar Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department and Canning Town (Jim Fitzpatrick) on 24 March Official Report, for Transport what (a) review, (b) consultations and 2009, columns 203-4W. (c) taskforces his Department is (i) responsible for and The results of the 2009 survey will be published when (ii) scheduled to undertake; on what date each such they are available. 53W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 54W

Hard Shoulder Running Projects place of the goods vehicle testing centre operated by the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency. [298054] Mr. Vaizey: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what decisions his Department has made Paul Clark: The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency on what technology to use to facilitate the forthcoming (VOSA) has no plans to use private goods vehicle hard shoulder running projects. [298511] testers in Preseli Pembrokeshire constituency in place of the goods vehicle testing centre operated by the VOSA. Chris Mole: The technology used for hard shoulder running Managed Motorway schemes will be based on Motorways: Noise standard proven technology including variable message signs (type MS4 for text and pictograms), advanced John Howell: To ask the Minister of State, motorway indicators (type Advanced Motorway (lane) Department for Transport if he will make an Indicator for mandatory speed limits and other signs), assessment of the effectiveness of treatment by specific digital safety speed enforcement cameras and CCTV. surface preservation treatments in reducing surface All early schemes will use a proven fixed camera solution noise levels on motorways. [298692] for monitoring the hard shoulder prior to opening. These solutions will be similar to those used for the M42 Active Traffic Management pilot. Chris Mole: The Highways Agency is currently investigating a number of different surface preservation Heathrow Airport: Safety treatment processes for existing road pavements on the trunk road network. The treatments are intended to John McDonnell: To ask the Minister of State, increase the service life of the pavement before the Department for Transport (1) what plans he has to existing surface requires replacement due to surface review his policy on airport public safety zones with disintegration or unacceptable reduction in skidding particular reference to (a) their boundaries and (b) resistance. Investigations on the overall performance of the buildings which are allowed within them; [298390] these treatments is ongoing, to examine all aspects of (2) what consideration he has given to the their effectiveness. Initial assessment suggests that the application of his Department’s public safety zones treatments are likely to be either neutral or result in policy in respect of Heathrow Airport; [298391] slight reductions in traffic noise levels over the lifetime of the treatment when compared with the current surfacing. (3) what consideration was given to his Department’s public safety zone policy when it was decided to Network Rail: Finance support a third runway at Heathrow Airport; [298392] (4) what area would be encompassed by a public safety zone if the third runway and sixth terminal at John McDonnell: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how much funding his Heathrow Airport were to be constructed; [298393] Department plans to provide to Network Rail in each (5) what buildings are located in the public safety year from 2009 to 2014. [296976] zones area to be established if a third runway at Heathrow Airport is constructed; and what the estimated cost of Chris Mole [holding answer 2 November 2009]: The the compulsory purchase of these buildings by the schedule of direct payments from the Secretary of State airport operator is under existing legislation. [298397] to Network Rail under the Network Rail Deed of Paul Clark: The Department for Transport currently Grant is as follows: has no plans to review its Public Safety Zone (PSZ) policy, which is set out in the DFT circular 1/2002 on £ million “Control of Development in Airport Public Safety Zones”. 2009-10 3,366 The Department only establishes PSZs for existing 2010-11 3,386 airport runways. For proposed new runways it would be 2011-12 3,411 a matter for the airport operator—BAA in the case of 2012-13 3,347 Heathrow—to produce draft Public Safety Zone contours 2013-14 3,071 as part of any future planning application and to identify any properties that might be affected. This would then Figures for 2010-11 and beyond are subject to indexation be subject to consultation as part of the normal planning with reference to the retail price index. In addition, process. these figures do not include any contracted payments in In relation to the decision to support a third runway respect of the rail network in Scotland which are subject at Heathrow airport, reference was made to PSZ policy to separate arrangements between Network Rail and both in the consultation document and in the safety Scottish Ministers. section of the “Adding Capacity at Heathrow Airport” Network Rail also receives income from other sources impact assessment (available on the DFT including passenger train operators, freight operators, website at: retail and property. It also accesses further funding via borrowing. Its total revenue requirement for England http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/aviation/heathrowconsultations/ heathrowdecision/impactassessment/ and Wales, as determined by the independent Office of Rail Regulation (ORR) is as follows: Lorries: Testing £ million

Mr. Crabb: To ask the Minister of State, Department 2009-10 4,764 for Transport what plans he has to use private goods 2010-11 4,805 vehicle testers in Preseli Pembrokeshire constituency in 55W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 56W

railway lines which would be suitable for reopening; £ million and if he will make a statement. [298400] 2011-12 4,836 2012-13 4,817 Chris Mole: The report ’Connecting Communities’, 2013-14 4,806 published by the Association of Train Operating Companies in June 2009, identifies a number of links where re-instating The ORR has indicated that this level of income will railway lines may offer value for money and also those be sufficient for Network Rail to deliver the outputs where re-opening the line is unlikely to be a viable required by the Government’s High Level Output option. The report provides an indication to interested Specification. local authorities on where it might be worthwhile to explore further the potential of a re-opened rail line as a Postal Services means of improving links to places currently without a rail service. Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Railways Department for Transport what estimate he has made of volume of mail which has been transported by (a) Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, road, (b) rail, (c) air and (d) sea in each year since Department for Transport pursuant to the answer to 2002. [296742] the hon. Member for Richmond Park of 21 October 2006, Official Report, column 1447, what consideration Paul Clark: The Department for Transport does not is being given to the diversion to platforms 20 to 24 of hold data for mail transported by rail or by sea. trains currently terminating at London Bridge, with a The following tables show the amount of mail transport view to expanding capacity for trains from the Sussex by road and by air. Comparable data for 2002 and 2003 coast at that station. [298510] for road are not available due to a change in collection methodology in 2004. Chris Mole: There are no plans to divert Sussex route UK registered road hauliers trains which currently terminate at London Bridge station Tonnes lifted (thousand) to Waterloo International Terminal platforms 20 to 24. 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Sussex route trains can only reach Waterloo by means of the circuitous route via Herne Hill. There are no Mail pouches/ 11,044 14,155 13,643 16,420 15,999 spare paths available on that route in the peaks, and other mail very few off-peak. items Parcels 25,423 17,540 18,431 13,473 15,562 Railways: Standards Total 36,468 31,695 32,074 29,893 31,560 Note: Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department Only includes road goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes, therefore mail for Transport what information his Department holds carried in vans under this weight are not included. on the number of trains which were cancelled in each of Source: the last five years by each train operating company; and Continuing Survey of Road Goods Transport, DFT how many of these cancellations occurred on (a) peak, UK airports (b) weekday off-peak and (c) weekend services. Tonnes set down and picked up (thousand) [298420] 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Chris Mole: The information held is given in the Mail 188 177 219 210 188 206 234 following tables. This comprises the total number of Note: trains cancelled by each franchised train operator in Includes mail carried on both domestic and international flights each of the five most recent financial years, including to/from UK airports. 2009-10 up to October 2009. In the case of London and Source: south east operators, the number of peak-hour trains Civil Aviation Authority cancelled is also held. Railway Network The Department for Transport does not hold information on the number of trains cancelled on any specific day of Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, the week, requested in (b) and (c) above. Department for Transport what assessment he has The number of trains cancelled in each of the last five made of the identification by the railway industry of years by franchised train operating company:

All trains Full cancellations 2009-10 (to Train operator 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 October 2009)

ATW 2,837 2,214 1,394 1,136 381 c2c 1,343 1,152 1,249 946 349 Chiltern 1,366 938 715 738 410 CrossCountry 1,435 1,382 1,267 1,157 615 East Midlands Trains 1,952 1,970 2,197 1,351 582 FCC 5,565 5,166 4,280 5,533 2,476 FGW 4,609 7,045 8,153 4,509 1,783 57W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 58W

All trains Full cancellations 2009-10 (to Train operator 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 October 2009)

London Midland 6,203 6,198 5,623 7,558 2,714 London Overground 2,753 2,301 2,376 1,339 623 Merseyrail 3,038 2,077 1,847 1,613 688 Northern Rail 6,116 7,626 8,670 6,920 3,362 NXEA 7,261 9,207 7,307 6,493 2,856 NXEC 546 805 997 625 284 Southeastern 6,341 5,227 5,102 7,326 2,071 Southern 6,892 5,954 5,627 9,629 3,083 SWT 5,663 6,034 3,890 6,327 1,184 TPE 856 981 897 1,001 268 Virgin Trains 688 878 678 2,205 775 Total 65,464 67,155 62,269 66,406 24,504

The number of peak-hour trains cancelled in each of the last five years by franchised train operating company :

Peak services Full cancellations 2009-10 (to Train operator 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 October 2009)

ATW 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— c2c 268 278 222 219 65 Chiltern 278 240 185 192 84 CrossCountry 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— East Midlands Trains 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— FCC 1,069 962 773 1,067 368 FGW ‘Link’ only 238 316 330 260 75 London Midland 63 109 76 276 62 London Overground 57 47 49 37 23 Merseyrail 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— Northern Rail 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— NXEA 1,045 1,239 1,025 819 406 NXEC 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— Southeastern 1,089 986 953 1,431 429 Southern 911 801 652 938 347 SWT 877 582 582 981 181 TPE 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— Virgin Trains 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— 1 No data available.

Roads: Accidents Mr. Evennett: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how many road traffic accidents were reported on (a) the A2 in Bexley borough, (b) the A20 Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Minister of State, in Bexley borough, (c) Brampton Road, Bexleyheath, Department for Transport whether his Department has (d) Okehampton Crescent, Welling, (e) Gravel Hill, conducted research on trends in the average length of Bexley, (f) Upper Wickham Lane, Welling, (g) Knee time it takes to reopen a road following a collision in Hill, Abbey Wood, (h) Park View Road, Bexleyheath, the last five years. [294711] (i) Broadway, Bexleyheath, (j) Avenue Road, Bexleyheath, (k) Pickford Lane, Bexleyheath, (l) Long Lane, Bexleyheath, Chris Mole: The Highways Agency records and (m) Colyers Lane, Erith, (n) Thames Road, Crayford, undertakes analysis of incident clear-up times on (o) North End Road,Erith and (p) Erith Road,Bexleyheath motorways. On heavily trafficked roads in December in (i) 2007-08 and (ii) 2008-09. [298556] 2008, 91 per cent. of incidents were cleared within 40 minutes and 97 per cent. were cleared within 90 minutes. Paul Clark: The information requested is given as The Highways Agency defines clearance of an incident follows. Data from 2009 will be available in the summer as the period from when it takes control of that incident, of 2010: to when the live carriageway and traffic flow is restored. Reported personal injury accidents on selected roads: 2007 and 2008 The Highways Agency has therefore not conducted Road name 2007 2008 specific research on trends in the average length of time taken to re-open a road in the last five years. (a) A2 in Bexley Borough 23 25 59W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 60W

Reported personal injury accidents on selected roads: 2007 and 2008 Borough of Bexley, (b) Greater London and (c) Kent. Road name 2007 2008 [298557] (b) A20 in Bexley Borough 14 12 Paul Clark: A key comparison between local areas (c) Brampton Road, Bexleyheath 7 10 has been the percentage reduction in the number of (d) Okehampton Crescent, Welling 0 2 people killed or seriously injured (KSIs) achieved since (e) Gravel Hill, Bexley 1 7 the 1994 to 1998 period. This measure corresponds to (f) Upper Wickham Lane, Welling 10 10 the headline target in the 2000 national road safety (g) Knee Hill, Abbey Wood 2 7 strategy. (h) Park View Road, Bexleyheath 8 9 Table 1 shows the percentage change from the 1994 to (i) Broadway, Bexleyheath 11 10 1998 annual average number of KSIs to the 2006 to (j) and (k) Avenue Road and Pickford 712 Lane, Bexleyheath1 2008 annual average number in each of the areas and in Great Britain as a whole: (l) Long Lane, Bexleyheath 6 4 (m) Colyers Lane, Erith 4 3 Table 1: percentage change in KSIs from 1994-1998 average to 2006- 2008 average (n) Thames Road, Crayford 11 6 Percentage (o) North End Road, Erith 4 3 (p) Erith Road, Bexleyheath 12 16 Bexley -34 1 It is not possible to distinguish between Avenue Road and Pickford Greater London -43 Lane. Kent (County Council Area) -37 Source: Transport for London. Great Britain -34

Charles Hendry: To ask the Minister of State, Safer City Funding Department for Transport how many deaths in road traffic accidents there were in each (a) district, (b) Mr. Drew: To ask the Minister of State, Department local authority and (c) metropolitan borough in each for Transport which urban areas have received Safer of the last five years; and what proportion of those City funding; and which of them have produced an deaths were of people under 25 years old. [298616] evaluation report on the use of that funding. [298952]

Paul Clark: The information requested has been Paul Clark: Gloucester is the only area which has deposited in the Libraries of the House. received Safer City funding. The funding was provided during the period 1996 to 2001. Tom Brake: To ask the Minister of State, A project report is available on the Department for Department for Transport how many road traffic Transport website at: accidents in the UK involved (1) drivers with driving http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/laguidance/ licences from each other EU member state in 2008; reportonthegloucestersaferci4679 [299063] A further evaluation report (TRL Report 589: Gloucester (2) a foreign driver who did not hold a driving Safer City Final Report) was produced in 2003 and is licence issued in the UK or another EU member state, available from the Transport Research Laboratory at: broken down by nationality of driver. [299064] www.trl.co.uk Paul Clark: The information as requested on licences Sustrans: Finance and road traffic accidents is not collected. However, figures relating to the numbers of foreign Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Minister of State, registered vehicles involved in reported personal injury Department for Transport how much Sustrans has accidents in Great Britain and the resulting casualties received from his Department in each of the last five are published in table 53 of Reported Road Casualties years; and what information his Department holds on Great Britain which is available on the Department for the amount Sustrans has raised for funding projects in Transport’s website: respect of which matching funds were provided by his http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/ Department in each such year. [297016] accidents/casualtiesgbar/rrcgb2008. Mr. Khan: The following table shows how much the Roads: Safety Department for Transport has paid Sustrans in each of the last five years and what information the Department Mr. Evennett: To ask the Minister of State, holds on the amount Sustrans has raised for funding Department for Transport what recent assessment he projects in respect of which match funding was provided has made of the level of road safety in (a) the London by the Department.

£ 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Sustrans’ projects

Links to Schools 2,000,000 4,205,000 2,010,000 3,500,000 1— Match funding 3,870,700 7,668,035 3,695,331 7,948,772 1—

Bike It 2— 2— 2— 700,000 397,500 61W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 62W

£ 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Sustrans’ projects

Match funding 2— 2— 2— 510,000 610,000

Cycling Demonstration Towns (CDTs) Monitoring 11,698 28,698 27,407 73,017 1— Match funding n/a n/a n/a n/a 1—

Selection of Cycling Demonstration Towns (CDTs) and 12,148 4,948 4,474 11,627 1— support for set-up Match funding n/a n/a n/a n/a 1—

Safe Routes to Schools/School Travel Information 114,709 145,000 60,000 100,000 50,000 Service Match funding 3— 3— 3— 3— 3— n/a = not applicable 1 No money paid so far this financial year. 2 Prior to 2008-09 Bike It grant paid directly to Bicycle Association. 3 Information not available.

Thameslink as a whole. This information is not broken down by route or service group and therefore, we are unable to Patrick Hall: To ask the Minister of State, provide the statistics requested. Department for Transport when he expects the first new train to enter into passenger service under the Patrick Hall: To ask the Minister of State, Thameslink rolling stock project. [299200] Department for Transport what recent assessment he has made of the proposed changes to Blackfriars station under the Thameslink programme. [299208] Chris Mole: The first new Thameslink train is expected to enter passenger service by late 2013. Chris Mole: Officials from the Department for Transport are closely monitoring all works covered by the Thameslink Patrick Hall: To ask the Minister of State, Programme, including works at Blackfriars Station. Department for Transport what his most recent assessment is of the total cost of the Thameslink Work is now well under way at Blackfriars station, programme. [299201] with a number of new temporary measures that are designed to aid the flow of passengers during the Chris Mole: The Department for Transport is continually construction works. reviewing the costs associated with the Thameslink On completion the station will span the River Thames, Programme. The current forecast of the total costs for with a new entrance on the south bank. In addition, the the programme is around £5.5 billion to £6 billion. London Underground station will be completely modernised with an enhanced interchange between the Patrick Hall: To ask the Minister of State, National Rail and London Underground stations. Department for Transport what his most recent estimate is of the level of passenger overcrowding on Patrick Hall: To ask the Minister of State, the Thameslink route of the First Capital Connect Department for Transport what recent discussions he franchise. [299206] has had with representatives of Bedford borough council on changes to Bedford station under the Chris Mole: Based on data the Department for Transport Thameslink programme. [299209] collected in autumn 2008, levels of passenger overcrowding on the Thameslink route of the First Capital Connect Chris Mole: The only recent meeting that Department Franchise during the peak periods are shown in the for Transport officials have had with representatives of following table. Bedford borough council has been regarding the location of stabling facilities near to Bedford station. This meeting, First Capital Connect Thameslink convened by Network Rail, took place during spring Percentage 2009. Peak (AM) 2008 PiXC 5.7 Thameslink: Manpower Peak (PM) 2008 PiXC 1.7 Overall 2008 PiXC 3.8 Patrick Hall: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how many construction jobs Patrick Hall: To ask the Minister of State, the Thameslink programme has created. [299197] Department for Transport what the most recent performance statistics are for the Thameslink route of Chris Mole: Network Rail estimate that there are the First Capital Connect franchise. [299207] approximately 1,500 people currently working full-time in construction related jobs on the Thameslink Programme, Chris Mole: The official industry performance data with approximately a further 500 to 700 working on a provided by Network Rail is for First Capital Connect part-time basis. 63W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 64W

Patrick Hall: To ask the Minister of State, Waterloo Station Department for Transport how many additional train drivers will be employed in order to operate the full Justine Greening: To ask the Minister of State, Thameslink service on completion of the Thameslink Department for Transport what assessment his programme. [299198] Department has made of the effect on the economy over (a) five, (b) 10 and (c) 20 years of integrating Chris Mole: The Department for Transport estimates Waterloo International terminal into the domestic that about an additional 80 drivers will be required to terminal. [297403] operate the enhanced Thameslink service. Chris Mole: It is the Government’s intention that the The exact number of additional drivers will be former Eurostar terminal at Waterloo is used to provide determined by the final train service pattern and the increased capacity for domestic passengers. The Department associated detailed operational plan and timetabling for Transport is in discussion with Network Rail and work which will be undertaken in due course. Stagecoach South West Trains to establish what would be the most cost-effective way to integrate Waterloo International terminal into the domestic station that Vehicle and Operator Services Agency: Haverfordwest maximises benefits for the short, medium and long term. Mr. Crabb: To ask the Minister of State, Department The former Eurostar terminal and platforms are also for Transport (1) what recent discussions he has had likely to be central to the wider redevelopment of Waterloo with road hauliers and bus operators on the future of which would be a key to transform the station environment the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency goods and accessibility, while also increasing capacity significantly. vehicle testing station in Haverfordwest; [297816] The Secretary of State has asked his station advisors to (2) what recent representations he has received on make early recommendations on the scope and options the future of the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency for the long-term development of Waterloo, including goods vehicle testing station in Haverfordwest. [297817] the former international terminal. Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Paul Clark: No discussions have taken place with any Department for Transport for what reason the party regarding the future of Haverfordwest testing Waterloo International Terminal has been allowed to station and no representations have been made regarding remain in the ownership of the British Rail (Residuary) the future of the Haverfordwest testing station. Body. [298458] Chris Mole: The former Eurostar terminal at Waterloo Waterloo International Terminal station is a vital strategic asset of the Department for Transport and is being held pending decisions on its Justine Greening: To ask the Minister of State, future use as an operational rail facility. BRB (Residuary) Department for Transport what expenditure on (a) the Ltd. are holding the facility on behalf of the Department operation of, (b) the maintenance of, (c) security at of Transport as the company has the relevant expertise and (d) other matters at Waterloo International in managing such assets. terminal British Rail Board (Residuary) incurred in the most recent 12-month period for which figures are available. [295308] TREASURY Alcohol: Excise Duties Chris Mole: It is the Government’s intention that the former Eurostar terminal at Waterloo is used to provide Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Chancellor of the increased capacity for domestic passengers. Exchequer what his most recent estimate is of the level The former Eurostar terminal and platforms are also of fraud in respect of duty on (a) beer, (b) wine, (c) likely to be central to the wider redevelopment of Waterloo spirits and (d) cider. [297957] which would be a key project to transform the station Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The most recent estimate of environment and accessibility, while also increasing capacity the spirits level of fraud was published by HMRC in significantly. The Secretary of State has asked his station “Measuring Indirect Tax Gaps—2008” in October 2008 advisers to make early recommendations on the scope and is available in the House of Commons Library. and options for the long-term development of Waterloo, including the former international terminal. The Department’s most recent estimate of the level of fraud in beer for 2006-07 gives a range of between The costs that BRB (Residuary) Ltd. have incurred in £270 million and £490 million in respect of duty. This is managing the former Eurostar terminal at Waterloo in a provisional internal estimate that may be subject to the 12 months to 31 March 2009 are as follows: revision. £ Estimates for the level of fraud in wine and cider are not available. Operations1 1,232,000 Bank Services Maintenance 673,000 Security 36,000 Dr. Cable: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Other 52,000 (1) what recent discussions he has had with Lloyds 1Operations costs quoted are net of income from rent and service Banking Group on competition in the retail banking charges of £1,255,000. sector; and if he will make a statement; [298841] 65W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 66W

(2) what recent discussions (a) he, (b) officials of his (2) what assessment he has made of the effect of the Department and (c) the Competition Commission sale of subsidiaries of RBS and Lloyds Banking Group have had on competition in the retail banking sector; on retail lending and banking activities in Doncaster and if he will make a statement; [298842] and the Yorkshire region. [298628] (3) what discussions he has had with Lloyds Banking Group on divestments of its retail banking operations Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Government are confident further to those announced on 3 November 2009; and that the proposed package of restructuring for RBS if he will make a statement. [298843] and Lloyds will increase competition throughout the UK retail and SME banking markets benefiting consumers, Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Treasury Ministers and officials businesses and the wider economy, including Doncaster have meetings with a wide variety of organisations in and the Yorkshire region. the public and private sectors as part of the process of policy development and delivery. As was the case with Child Care Vouchers previous Administrations, it is not the Government’s practice to provide details of all such meetings. Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Chancellor of the Dr. Cable: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Exchequer how many companies in Slough which indicators of competition in the UK retail constituency claimed tax and national insurance banking sector his Department monitors; and if he will contribution exemption for childcare vouchers in the make a statement. [298844] latest period for which information is available. [297905]

Sarah McCarthy-Fry: HM Treasury has a departmental Mr. Timms: Companies are not required to make a objective to support fair, stable and efficient financial tax return reporting the provision of childcare vouchers markets. In pursuit of this objective the Department for use by their employees. As such HM Revenue and has regard to a range of quantitative and qualitative Customs does not hold information about which companies information including from the Office of Fair Trading, are providing childcare vouchers or in which constituency Financial Services Authority and other bodies. they are based. Banks Annette Brooke: To ask the Chancellor of the : To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Exchequer if he will estimate the number of employees what (a) financial and (b) due diligence checks will be who have taken part in a childcare voucher scheme undertaken in relation to any new entrant into the UK since the introduction of such schemes; and if he will financial services market arising from the sale of branches make it his policy to collect data on employer- or subsidiaries of RBS or Lloyds Banking Group. supported childcare. [298786] [298629] Mr. Timms: HM Revenue and Customs commissioned Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The package of restructuring research in 2006 to collect data on employer supported and other measures is now subject to agreement by the child care, which was carried out by the National Centre College of Commissioners. The Financial Services for Social Research and is available at: Authority (FSA) will scrutinise any potential purchasers http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/research/research-report23.htm. of the divestments and, in doing so, consider the buyer’s intention for the business. Any purchaser will have to This published research estimated that there were satisfy the FSA as to the adequacy of its financial 174,000 employees using child care vouchers in late resources, the competency and experience of its leadership, 2005. the adequacy of its risk and control standards, and the long-term viability and sustainability of the entity as Child Trust Fund assessed by reference to its business plan. Banks: Debts Julia Goldsworthy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many children were eligible for a child Mr. Meacher: To ask the Chancellor of the trust fund account in each year since the policy was Exchequer what the level of indebtedness of (a) RBS, introduced. [298411] (b) Lloyds Banking Group and (c) Northern Rock is. [298247] Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The annual statistical information on child trust fund accounts can be viewed on HM Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Details of the banks’ liabilities Revenue and Custom’s website: can be found in their published accounts, available on http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ctf/statistical-report-2006.pdf their websites at: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ctf/statistical-report-2007.pdf http://www.investors.rbs.com/ http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/ http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ctf/statistical-report-2008.pdf http://companyinfo.northernrock.co.uk/ http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ctf/statistical-report-2009.pdf Banks: Yorkshire and the Humber Children: Day Care Caroline Flint: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what assessment his Department has Annette Brooke: To ask the Chancellor of the made of the effect of the sale of subsidiaries of RBS Exchequer what the cost to the Exchequer of tax relief and Lloyds Banking Group on employment in on employer-supported childcare has been in each year Doncaster and the Yorkshire region; [298627] since the scheme’s inception. [298469] 67W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 68W

Mr. Timms: The estimated costs of employer supported Economic Situation child care were published in the Tax Ready Reckoner and Tax Reliefs supplementary document alongside the Mr. Amess: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 2008 pre-Budget report, available at what recent assessment he has made of the http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/pbr08_taxready reckoner_287.pdf. performance of the UK economy; and if he will make a statement. [298270] Council Tax: Valuation Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Government will publish Robert Neill: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer updated forecasts for the UK and world economies in pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for the pre-Budget report later this autumn, as is usual Meriden of 27 February 2009, Official Report, column practice. 1180W, on council tax: parking, how many domestic dwellings in each local authority in England, or the Equitable Life Assurance Society closest local administrative unit used, have been assigned the dwellinghouse coding for parking of (a) Ben Chapman: To ask the Chancellor of the G1, (b) G2, (c) G3, (d) G4, (e) G5, (f) G6, (g) G7, Exchequer if he will make financial assistance available (h) G8 and (i) G9 according to records held by the to pensioners in Wirral South constituency who have Valuation Office Agency. [298482] lost money as a result of their investments with Equitable Life. [297119] Ian Pearson: The information requested is publicly available in the Freedom of Information Disclosure Mr. Byrne: The Government have appointed Sir John Log on the VOA’s website. Chadwick to advise on the relative losses suffered by Debts policyholders and their impact. As I announced in the House on 21 October, the Government expect Sir John Mr. Amess: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to submit his final advice by spring 2010. We will what estimate he has made of the level of personal debt consider his advice as quickly as possible and announce in the economy; what estimate he has made of the a payment scheme that is practical to deliver and fair to likely level of personal debt in the economy in May both policyholders and taxpayers. 2010; and if he will make a statement. [298321] Financial Services: Regulation Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Bank of England collects and publishes statistics on the level of personal debt. Lady Hermon: To ask the Chancellor of the The full Bank of England dataset can be found at: Exchequer what reviews his Department has carried http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/mfsd/iadb/ out of the role of the Financial Services Authority in FromShowColumns.asp?Travel=Nlx&SearchText=VTXC identifying breaches and preventing losses to savers in The Government do not publish forecasts for personal respect of the conduct of regulated activities by debt. industrial and provident societies in (a) Northern Ireland and (b) the UK in the last three years. [297411] Departmental Freedom of Information Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Industrial and Provident Societies Mrs. Laing: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (IPSs) in Northern Ireland are registered under the how many staff in his Department were employed on Industrial and Provident Societies Act (Northern Ireland) the management of freedom of information requests 1969. In July 2009 the Treasury issued a ‘Review of the submitted to his Department in each year since 2005; Legislative Framework for Credit Unions and Industrial and how much his Department spent on the management Provident Societies in Northern Ireland’. The Review of such requests in each such year. [299130] recommended that the Northern Ireland authorities should consider what can be done to improve Northern Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Treasury has a central Ireland legislation governing IPSs, with the aim of team of seven (full-time equivalent) that co-ordinates improving member information and governance. work on information rights. A substantial part of their In Great Britain, Industrial and Provident Societies work is managing FOI requests; however, the Treasury are subject to the Industrial and Provident Societies Act does not operate a time recording system that would 1965. The ‘Review of the Legislative Framework’ enable costs for this element to be determined. recommended that, in Great Britain, the Financial Services Economic Growth Authority and the sector should identify an appropriate approach to minimise the risk of money laundering and Mr. Amess: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer improve transparency between IPSs and their members. how much the British economy grew on average each The Review concluded by recommending that the year (a) in total and (b) per capita in the period (i) Northern Ireland authorities, the Treasury and the FSA, 1983 to 1987, (ii) 1987 to 1992, (iii) 1992 to 1997, (iv) working together to develop a unified regime that protects 1997 to 2001, (v) 2001 to 2005 and (vi) 2005 to 2008. societies and their members, should achieve an integrated [298225] approach across the UK.

Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Data on the UK economy is Government: Assets publicly available from the website of the independent Office for National Statistics (ONS). Calculations of Mr. Evans: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer GDP per capita are available online from international what estimate he has made of the monetary value of organisations such as the IMF and World Bank. the portfolio of non-financial assets the Government 69W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 70W proposes to sell (a) when they were acquired by the Mortgages: Bexley Government and (b) at the time of the proposed sale. [296935] Mr. Evennett: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what information his Department holds on Mr. Byrne [holding answer 2 November 2009]: As I the number and proportion of mortgage applications announced on 12 October, a portfolio of assets for sale, by residents of (a) Bexleyheath and Crayford and (b) and assets where there is the potential for alternative the London Borough of Bexley which were granted in ownership options, will be published in the coming each of the last 24 months. [298109] months. The publication of the value of Government assets Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Government do not hold ahead of any commercial negotiations would undermine this information. The Bank of England publishes data the value for money of any disposal. Departmental and on mortgage approvals. These are available at: national accounts provide some details of the book http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/li/current/ values of Government assets. index.htm Northern Rock Robert Neill: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what discussions officials of his Department had with Caroline Flint: To ask the Chancellor of the local government officials on the proposed sale of Exchequer how much Government lending to Government assets. [296992] Northern Rock has been repaid to date. [298630]

Mr. Byrne: Treasury Ministers and officials have Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Northern Rock published its discussions with a wide variety of organisations in the third quarter trading statement on 4 November 2009. public and private sectors as part of the process of This reported that the gross loan outstanding to the policy development and delivery. As was the case with Government stood at £14.5 billion at 30 September previous Administrations, it is not the Government’s 2009. After deducting liquidity balances held with the practice to provide details of all such representations. Bank of England the net loan at 30 September 2009 stood at £10.9 billion. The gross and net loan outstanding at 31 December 2007 was £26.9 billion. To date, Northern Income Tax Rock have repaid £12.4 billion and £16.0 billion in gross and net terms, respectively. Mr. Dodds: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer The Government announced in February of this year how many people are (a) in each income tax band and that in order to enable Northern Rock to undertake (b) paying no income tax in 2009-10. [298939] increased levels of new lending, the bank will be restructured so that the back book of mortgages are managed separately Mr. Timms: Estimates for 2009-10 of the number of to its other business. The Government also announced taxpayers by marginal rate of tax are shown in Table 2.1 at the time that they will increase the loan to Northern “Number of individual income taxpayers”, available at: Rock and extend the repayment schedule as part of http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/income_tax/menu.htm plans to restructure the company. The information is based on the Survey of Personal Following last month’s state aid approval from the Incomes of which 2006-07 is the latest available, and European Commission, the Government are working projected in line with Budget 2009 assumptions. with the company to finalise the details of the restructuring, including the revised repayment schedule for the The estimated number of non-taxpayers can be found Government loan. by subtracting the number of taxpayers from the latest population projection published on the Office for National Public Expenditure: Northern Ireland Statistics website at: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/Product.asp?vlnk=8519 Mr. Dodds: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much has been contributed from the Exchequer to EU programmes in Northern Ireland in each year since Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander 2005. [297446]

Mr. Gale: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr. Byrne: EU Programmes in Northern Ireland are when he plans to take steps to assist UK citizens who funded by the European Commission and are paid by have lost funds invested in Kaupthing Singer, Isle of the EU to the Northern Ireland Executive. Since 2005 Man which were subsequently transferred to London. EU receipts have been treated as negative public expenditure, [298895] which offsets the spending of the receipts within the Departmental Expenditure Limits (DEL). The effect of Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander this is that the funds are fully additional to the DEL Isle of Man (KSF IoM) is not a subsidiary of KSF in spending funded by the Exchequer and determined by the UK, but of the Icelandic parent company. Oversight the Barnett Formula. of KSF IoM is the responsibility of the Isle of Man’s Public Expenditure: South West Financial Supervision Commission. Arrangements for depositors in KSF IoM are a matter for the Isle of Man Andrew George: To ask the Chancellor of the Government. Exchequer how much public funding has been Both KSF IoM and KSF UK are subject to insolvency allocated to (a) Cornwall and (b) the Isles of Scilly in proceedings in their respective jurisdictions. each year since 1997. [297274] 71W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 72W

Mr. Byrne: Public funding from central Government Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Receipts from air passenger grants allocated to Cornwall county council and the duty, insurance premium tax and the total for indirect council of the Isles of Scilly for the years 1997-98 to taxes are published on a monthly basis in the National 2007-08 is set out in the following table. Statistics Table 1.3a available from the HMRC website at £000 http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/tax_receipts/table1-3a.xls Cornwall Isles of Scilly Taxation: Corporate Hospitality 1997-98 235,095 2,132 1998-99 248,609 2,107 Jo Swinson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 1999-2000 273,730 2,215 pursuant to the answer of 2 November 2009, Official 2000-01 298,121 2,438 Report, columns 783-84W, on taxation: corporate 2001-02 327,356 2,815 hospitality, when his Department plans to publish its 2002-03 349,280 3,512 guidance on businesses claiming tax back on corporate 2003-04 386,681 3,533 entertainment in lapdancing clubs referred to by the 2004-05 435,398 3,832 Minister for Women and Equality in media interviews 2005-06 453,576 4,117 in September 2009; and what steps his Department is 2006-07 464,067 4,467 taking to prevent the use of receipts which do not 2007-08 499,465 4,877 disclose the nature of the entertainment provided in order to reclaim VAT paid on corporate entertainment The lowest level at which total public expenditure in lapdancing clubs. [298241] information is available is the region. Total identifiable expenditure on services in the South West can be found Mr. Timms: As covered by my answer of 2 November in the Public Expenditure Statistical Analysis 2009 (CM 2009, Official Report, columns 783-84W, HM Revenue 7630). Please see the following link for the relevant and Customs’ (HMRC) published guidance at chapters of PESA 2009: www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/BIM45000.htm http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/pesa09_chapter9.pdf deals with the issue of how the tax system treats business Taxation entertainment expenses (including any incurred in lapdancing clubs). Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Chancellor of the VAT incurred by business in respect of corporate Exchequer what tax schemes have been closed as a entertainment is not recoverable regardless of the nature result of the retrospective application of legislation of that entertainment. Guidance on that was published since 1997. [298739] in HMRC Notice 700/65, Business entertainment, available at: Mr. Timms: Legislation enacted with retrospective http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/ effect (to a date before the announcement date) is rarely channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=;true&_pageLabel=page used. A separate record has only been kept since 2004. VAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000092&propertyType= Since December 2004 the following schemes have document been closed by legislation enacted with retrospective Where a business seeks to recover VAT, HMRC insist effect: that a VAT invoice is retained to evidence the tax paid. Section 92 Finance Act 2006 (avoidance using options etc); That invoice must in all circumstances contain a description sufficient to identify the goods and services supplied. Section 58 Finance Act 2008 (UK residents and foreign partnerships); Wikimedia UK: Taxation Section 67 Finance Act 2009 (deductions for employee liabilities); Section 68 Finance Act 2009 (employment loss relief); and Stephen Pound: To ask the Chancellor of the Section 61 and schedule 30 FA 2009 (Financial arrangements Exchequer what stage has been reached in the appeal avoidance). lodged with HM Revenue and Customs by Wikimedia Taxation: Aviation UK in respect of its application for charitable tax status. [298464] Mr. Dodds: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr. Timms: I am not able to provide information what assessment has been made of the effect of about the affairs of individual taxpayers. increases in air passenger duty on small regional airports. [298940]

Sarah McCarthy-Fry: In line with Cabinet Office COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT guidance, HMRC conducted an impact assessment of the new banding system and published it on its website Council Housing at: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ria/apd-reform-ia.pdf Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government on what date the Mr. Dodds: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer consultation on draft statutory guidance on social how much revenue was received from (a) air passenger housing allocations for local authorities in England duty, (b) tax on insurance and (c) all indirect taxation closed; how many responses to the consultation were in the latest period for which figures are available. received; if he will place in the Library a copy of each [298941] response; and if he will make a statement. [297695] 73W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 74W

Mr. Ian Austin: The consultation period for the draft (5) what total premium was paid by housing statutory allocations guidance closed on 23 October; associations for insurance cover in each year since over 130 responses have been received. A summary of 1997; [298499] the responses to consultation will be published on the (6) how many insurance claims were made by Department’s website within three months of the close housing associations in each year since 1997; [298500] of consultation. Individual responses will be made available on request, unless respondents have asked that they be (7) what recent consideration he has given to treated as confidential. extending the liabilities covered by housing associations; and if he will make a statement; [298501] Council Housing: Property Transfer (8) when he last discussed housing association insurance with representatives of housing associations; Mr. Neil Turner: To ask the Secretary of State for and if he will make a statement. [298502] Communities and Local Government how many local authorities have transferred housing to registered social Mr. Ian Austin: I refer the hon. Member to the landlords through large-scale voluntary transfers since answers I gave him on 4 November 2009, Official Report, 1997; how many dwellings have been so transferred in columns 1067-1068W. the period; and how much debt was written off as part The Government do not hold any information pertaining of such transfers. [297191] to insurance cover for the activities of housing associations. Social landlords will wish to ensure that they have Mr. Ian Austin: Since 1997 there have been 226 transfers appropriate arrangements for their circumstances. by 140 local authorities with 939,347 dwellings transferred. The amount of debt the Department has paid to the Public Works Loans Boards in respect of completed Housing Corporation: Public Relations housing stock transfers to date is £4.124 billion.

Departmental Air Travel Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for answer of 4 June 2009, Official Report, column 678W, Communities and Local Government how many on the Housing Corporation: public relations, if he will domestic flights within Great Britain officials from his place in the Library a copy of the article written by the Department made in 2008-09; and at what cost. Chairman of the Housing Corporation; and what the [298744] nature was of the consultancy work undertaken in respect of transition. [295859] Barbara Follett: The information requested could be provided only at disproportionate cost. John Healey: I have placed a copy of the article written by the consultancy firm ACPO for the Chairman Fraud of the Housing Corporation in the Library of the House. Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for No further details are available on the nature of the Communities and Local Government how many consultancy work undertaken in respect of transition. employees of his Department and its predecessors were convicted of an offence of fraud in each of the last 10 years. [297037] Housing: Sustainable Development

Barbara Follett: Our records, which do not go back further than 2003, show that, since that date two members Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for of staff have committed fraud against the Department. Communities and Local Government how much has Both were successfully prosecuted. Another member of been spent by the Homes and Communities Agency staff was convicted of a fraud not connected with the Academy on (a) developing, (b) publicising and (c) Department’s business. providing continuing support for the foundation degree in sustainable communities offered by Salford Housing Associations: Insurance University; and if he will make a statement. [298675]

Bill Wiggin: To ask the Secretary of State for John Healey: The development costs associated with Communities and Local Government (1) how long it the foundation degree in sustainable communities at takes on average for insurance claims to be processed Salford university are £1,980, covering the costs of the by housing associations; [298495] HCA’s university adviser. The majority of the publicity has been covered by Salford university through their (2) what measures housing associations have in place normal marketing and promotional channels, however to prevent insurance fraud; [298496] the cost of a promotional video associated with Salford (3) what recent guidelines his Department has issued university was £1,681. The continued support costs are in respect of insurance coverage and liabilities for £5,000 for 2009-10. The total costs are therefore £8,661, housing associations; [298497] which equates to a cost per person to date of £376.57. (4) what his most recent estimate is of the total The foundation degree aims to develop the practical amount of liabilities for which housing associations are skills and values necessary for success in delivering charged; and if he will make a statement; [298498] regeneration and sustainable communities. 75W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 76W

Non-Domestic Rates: Ports Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government in what ways the Mrs. Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for Valuation Office Agency’s methodology and guidance Communities and Local Government what recent for valuing car parking spaces has changed since May representations he has received on the payment of 1997. [294090] backdated business rates in ports; and if he will make a Barbara Follett: There have been no significant changes statement. [297908] since May 1997 in the Valuation Office Agency’s methodology and guidance for valuing car spaces, which Barbara Follett: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer is set out in Rating Manual Volume 5 Section 200 for given to my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby Car Parks and in the individual practice note issued for (Mr. Mitchell) on 16 September 2009, Official Report, each five yearly revaluation. The methodology has remained columns 2218-19W. one of Rental Comparison by parking space. Current Since that date, the Department of Communities and and earlier practice notes can be compared on the Local Government has received further representations, Valuation Office Agency’s web site at: from a trade association, and from two MPs, on behalf www.voa.gov.uk of businesses in Ports. Playing Fields: Planning Permission Non-Domestic Rates: Public Houses Hugh Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government whether he plans Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for to update Planning Policy Guidance 17, with particular Communities and Local Government whether a public reference to provisions for playing fields. [297911] house which has diversified to offer (a) post office or banking facilities and (b) limited retail sales, will have Mr. Ian Austin [holding answer 5 November 2009]: the income from such activities taken into account, As part of the reform of the planning system, we intend when the Valuation Office Agency rates the to consolidate and streamline planning policy on open hereditament for the 2010 business rates revaluation; space, and sport and recreation (PPG17); biodiversity and whether such facilities may act as a material and geodiversity (PPS9); and landscape and soil (part consideration in affecting the rateable value. [295867] of PPS7). We aim to consult on our proposals by the end of the year. Barbara Follett: The contribution of any ancillary activities to the effective use of a property as measured Property Development: Green Belt by the rental market is used as the reference point for the rating assessment. Circumstances will vary, but Dr. Kumar: To ask the Secretary of State for unless the ancillary activity yields significant potential Communities and Local Government (1) what his for additional maintainable trade in its own right, it is policy is on the provision of open spaces in proposed unlikely to result in an increased rating assessment on developments on green belt land; [297226] the pub. (2) what requirements must be satisfied before The five-yearly business rates revaluations make sure planning approval is given for development on green each business pays its fair contribution and no more by belt land. [297307] ensuring that the share of the national rates bill paid by any one business reflects changes over time in the value Mr. Ian Austin: Planning policy guidance note 17, of their property relative to others. The 2010 revaluation Planning for Open Space, Sport and Recreation, states will not raise a single extra penny for Government. that local planning authorities should undertake rigorous Over a million properties will see their business rate assessments of the needs of their communities for open liabilities come down as a result of revaluation. The space. This enables them to set their own open space Government intend to put in place a £2 billion relief standards which take into account local circumstances, scheme to limit the impact on the minority with bill including the extent of development. It is for local increases. This is on top of the wider support authorities to determine how much open space should available to help ease business pressures including be provided as part of a new development, whether in discounted rate bills for small businesses and deferring the green belt or elsewhere. tax payments. Under our plan-led system, all development in the countryside is strictly controlled, but in green belt there Non-Domestic Rates: Valuation is an additional restraint—the presumption against inappropriate development. This is explained in planning policy guidance note 2, “Green Belts”. Only where the Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for harm that inappropriate development may cause to the Communities and Local Government whether the 2010 green belt would be clearly outweighed by other non-domestic rate revaluation is to be revenue-neutral considerations, and where there are very special (a) in the first year of operation and (b) over the circumstances to justify the development, should permission five-year rating cycle. [294550] be granted by the planning authority.

Barbara Follett: I refer the hon. Member to the Refuges: Domestic Violence answer given to the hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr. Jackson) by my right hon. Friend the Minister for Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Housing on 12 March 2009, Official Report, column 752W. Communities and Local Government what recent 77W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 78W estimate he has made of the number of victims of Movement out of the social rented sector1, England domestic violence who are in refuge accommodation. thousand [298319] Moved into owner Moved into private occupation2 renting

Mr. Ian Austin: The Department does not collect this 1997 n/a 55 information and it has not made an estimate of the 1998 87 50 numbers in refuge accommodation. 1999 102 52 2000 102 54 Rented Housing 2001 103 58 2002 96 53 Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for 2003 99 48 Communities and Local Government what estimate his 2004 95 46 Department has made of the average length of (a) 2005 76 47 social and (b) private domestic tenancies in each of the 2006 51 51 last five years. [297711] 2007 37 47 1 Due to small sample sizes, figures are based on a three-year rolling Mr. Ian Austin: Estimates of the median length of average. 2007 represents the average for the period 2005-06, 2006-07 time that social and private renters had occupied their and 2007-08. 2 current accommodation to date for each of the years Includes purchases by sitting tenants. Source: 2003-04 to 2007-08 are provided in the following table. Survey of English Housing. These estimates are based on data from the Survey of English Housing. Reliable data on the average length of Social Rented Housing: Chorley completed tenancies is not available. The median is provided as it is a better indicator than Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the mean/average due to the small number of very long Communities and Local Government what recent tenancies which affect the mean. assessment he has made of the adequacy of the provision of social housing in Chorley; and if he will Median length of rental tenancies to date, England, 2003-04 to [296912] 2007-08 make a statement. Social renters Private renters Mr. Ian Austin [holding answer 2 November 2009]: In 2003-04 7.5 1.6 2007 the council transferred its stock to Chorley Community 2004-05 7.4 1.5 Housing. Earlier this year Chorley Community Housing 2005-06 7.7 1.6 carried out a resident survey which indicated very high 2006-07 7.8 1.7 levels of satisfaction. 2007-08 7.8 1.5 The number of households on the housing waiting Source: list in Chorley has been reduced from 1,897 in April Survey of English Housing 2007 to 1,370 in April 2008; this represents a 27.8 per cent. reduction. Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Additional social housing is being provided through Communities and Local Government what the National Affordable Housing Programme (NAHP). information his Department holds on the number of So far Chorley has been allocated a provisional £9.58 social housing tenants in each local authority area who million under the 2008-11 Programme to deliver an have requested an exchange in the last 12 months. estimated 252 new affordable homes, of which 118 will [297824] be for social renting and 134 for low cost home ownership. Mr. Ian Austin: The number of requests for exchanges Social Rented Housing: Foreigners is not collected centrally. There were 14,300 local authority dwellings let through Mr. Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for mutual exchanges between 1 April 2007 and 31 March Communities and Local Government with reference to 2008, reported through the 2007-08 Housing Strategy the answers of 16 May 2008, Official Report, column Statistical Appendix (HSSA). The 2008-09 HSSA will 1801W, and to the hon. Member for Hertsmere, be published on 26 November, 2009. Information on column 1800W, on social rented housing: foreigners, registered social landlord dwellings let through mutual how many new (a) local authority social lettings and exchanges is not collected centrally. (b) registered social landlord lettings in England were made to foreign nationals from (i) EU member states Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for and (ii) non-EU member states in (A) 2006-07 and (B) Communities and Local Government how many social 2007-08. [297470] housing tenants left the sector for accommodation in (a) the private rented sector and (b) owner occupancy John Healey: Information on the number of foreign in each year since 1997. [297965] national households receiving social housing is collected through the Continuous Recording of Letting form Mr. Ian Austin: Estimates of the number of social (CORE). Historically CORE has only collected information renting households that moved into private renting and from registered social landlords. An increasing number owner occupation in each year since 1997 are provided of local authorities are now providing information through in the following table. These estimates are based on data this process as well, but there are still some gaps in the from the Survey of English Housing. data. Information on lettings to foreign nationals can 79W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 80W only be supplied in terms of European economic area Number of waste planning applications that have been decided and granted since (EEA) countries and not EU member states. EEA countries 2005 also include Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. Period Decisions Granted A question on nationality was first introduced to the 2008-09 1,045 955 form for the 2006-07 data collection period. For 2006-07, Note: The applications granted in the year are not necessarily the same facilities for I refer the hon. Member to the answer given to the hon. which applications have been made in the period. Member for Hertsmere (Mr. Clappison) on 16 May Source: 2008, Official Report, column 1800W.For local authorities, Communities and Local Government, Development Control Annual Publication. a split between lettings to EEA and non-EEA foreign The number of applications refused is not published. nationals is not available. Estimates for 2007-08 are published on the Communities and Local Government website at: CABINET OFFICE http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/xls/ 1228921.xls Childbirth These are based on an improved imputation method to adjust for missing local authority data. Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office how many live births there were to mothers in each income decile in (a) 2007 and (b) the Social Rented Housing: Rents most recent year for which figures are available. [298286] Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government if he will provide Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls guidance on the determination of rents to those within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. housing associations whose rent reviews are linked to I have asked the authority to reply. the retail price index. [298238] Letter from Jil Matheson, dated November 2009: As National Statistician I have been asked to reply to your Mr. Ian Austin: In July the Government launched a request on what information the Office for National Statistics consultation on draft directions to the Tenant Services holds on the number of live births there were to mothers in each Authority (TSA), the new independent social housing income decile in (a) 2007 and (b) the most recent year for which regulator. The Government proposed to direct the TSA figures are available. (298286) to set a standard on rent levels for registered social In England and Wales parental income is not collected at birth landlords that would apply from 2010-11 onwards. registration. I am, therefore, unable to provide you with the The consultation closed on 9 October and we are statistics you have requested. currently considering the responses received. We will Civil Servants: Compensation publish our final decisions shortly. Mr. Laurence Robertson: To ask the Minister for the Temporary Accommodation Cabinet Office (1) what discussions she has had with trades unions on proposed changes to the Civil Service Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Compensation Scheme; and if she will make a Communities and Local Government which local statement; [298503] authorities apply a flat rate charge to tenants of (2) what legal advice on employment law she took temporary accommodation; and what the amount of before making proposals to change the Civil Service that charge was in each such local authority. [296131] Compensation Scheme; and if she will make a statement. [298504] Mr. Ian Austin: We do not keep a central record of the charges local authorities make for temporary Paul Holmes: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet accommodation. Office (1) what representations her Department has received in response to the proposals for the Civil Waste Disposal: Planning Permission Service Compensation Scheme contained within Fairness for All; and if she will make a statement; [298740] Dr. Whitehead: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many waste (2) what account she took of other severance handling facility planning applications have been (a) arrangements in the public sector when proposing approved and (b) rejected by local authorities since changes to severance arrangements in the Civil Service Compensation Scheme. [298882] 2005. [297567]

Mr. Ian Austin: The number of waste handling facility Tessa Jowell: The Prime Minister’s statement on 31 planning applications that have been approved by local March 2009, Official Report, column 60WS, announced authorities since 2005 is set out in the following table. the Government’s intention to reform the Civil Service Compensation Scheme. My officials held discussions Number of waste planning applications that have been decided and granted since with the trade unions and consulted legal advisers before 2005 we brought forward proposals on 31 July. In developing Period Decisions Granted these proposals we took account of the range of terms 2005-06 1,200 1,076 available elsewhere in the public sector. Alongside the 2006-07 1,107 991 Cabinet Secretary and officials I met with the Council 2007-08 1,050 969 of Civil Service Unions on 22 September 2009. 81W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 82W

The Cabinet Office has received around 18,000 comments Box l on the Fairness for All proposals, from civil servants, Description ICD-9 ICD-10 civil service unions, employers and others. We are Intentional self-poisoning by drugs, E950.0- X60-X64 considering the points made and will publish our response medicaments and biological substances E950.5 in due course. Assault by drugs, medicaments and E962.0 X85 biological substances Death: Drugs Poisoning by drugs, medicaments and E980.0- Y10-Y14 biological substances, undetermined intent E980.5 Chris Grayling: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for the Isle of Wight of 2 November 2009, Official Report, Downing Street Budget columns 687-88W, on drugs: death, what the equivalent figures to those contained in Table 1 were in each year Mr. Hurd: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office since 1997. [298163] what the planned budget for the (a) Cabinet Office and (b) Downing Street budget, in cash terms is in each of Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls the next three years. [290155] within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Tessa Jowell: The planned budget for the Cabinet Letter from Jil Matheson, dated November 2009: Office for 2010-11 is set out in Public Expenditure Table As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your 1 on page 119 of the Cabinet Office Annual Report and recent question pursuant to the Answer to the hon. Member for Accounts 2008-09. Allocations for the individual units the Isle of Wight of 2 November 2009, Official Report, columns within the Cabinet Office have not yet been set. 687-88W, on drugs: death, what the equivalent figures to those contained in Table 1 were in each year since 1997. (298163) Comprehensive Spending Review 2007 set the budget Figures provided in the previous Answer were the number of for the financial years 2008-09, 2009-10 and 2010-11. drug misuse deaths of persons aged (a) below 16, (b) 16 to 18, (c) The budgets for 2011-12 and 2012-13 will be set during 19 to 25 and (d) over 25 years of age, in England and Wales, for the next spending review. 2008 (the latest year available). Drugs classified under the Misuse of Drugs Act (1971) are termed ‘controlled substances’, and unlawful possession of a Government Departments: Data Protection controlled substance is illegal, as is possession with intent to supply. Lawful possession of a controlled substance would include when the drug was in the possession of a person it had been Mr. Wallace: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet prescribed to. It is not possible to ascertain from information Office what areas in which improvement might be collected at death certification whether a drug was obtained made in government information security policy her lawfully or not. Department has identified since 1997. [288868] The table attached provides the number of drug misuse deaths of persons aged (a) below 16, (b) 16 to 18, (c) 19 to 25 and (d) over 25 years of age, in England and Wales, for the years 1997 to 2008. Tessa Jowell [holding answer 21 July 2009]: Since 1997, my Department has identified a number of significant Table 1: Numbers of deaths related to drug misuse1, by age group, England and Wales2, 1997-20083 areas of improvement made in information security Deaths (persons) policy across government. The Office of the e-Envoy Year Below 16 16-18 19-25 Over 25 was established in 1999 within the Cabinet Office and produced security policy guidance on e-government 1997 8 51 356 897 development. Sir Edmund Burton’s 2001 review into 1998 4 57 318 1,078 information security policy provision across government 1999 6 51 313 1,258 recommended a central policy unit be established at the 2000 2 46 297 1,259 centre to lead on information security policy for 2001 4 43 335 1,424 government. The Central Sponsor for Information 2002 6 44 317 1,246 Assurance (CSIA) was duly established in 2003. CSIA 2003 5 30 240 1,157 published the refreshed National Information Assurance 2004 4 24 248 1,219 Strategy in 2007 outlining the Government’s strategic 2005 8 19 222 1,359 approach to improve professionalism, capability, awareness 2006 6 23 222 1,322 and education in information security and assurance. 2007 4 21 204 1,375 2008 9 25 206 1,498 In June 2008 the Cabinet Secretary published the 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Diseases, Data Handling Report (DHR) on the security of cross- Ninth Revision (ICD-9) for the years 1997-2000, and the International Classification government data handling procedures which identified of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) from 2001 onwards. Deaths were included key areas for improvement in data security and outlined where the underlying cause was due to drug poisoning (shown in Box 1 below) and where a drug controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 was mentioned specific measures that Departments must take. In addition, on the death certificate. the Security Policy Framework (SPF) was introduced in 2 Figures for England and Wales includes non-residents. December 2008 to replace and update the Manual of 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. Box l Protective Security which had been in place since 1995 Description ICD-9 ICD-10 and is now the sole source upon which all departmental security policy should be based. These recent measures Mental and behavioural disorders due to 292, 304, F11-F16, further reinforce the Government’s strong commitment drug use (excluding alcohol and tobacco) 305.2-305.9 F18-F19 to review and address information assurance concerns Accidental poisoning by drugs, E850-E858 X40-X44 medicaments and biological substances and to the securing of personal data held by public authorities. 83W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 84W

Honours: Banks Helen Goodman: I have been asked to reply. Poverty statistics, published in the households Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Minister for the below average income series, only allow a breakdown of Cabinet Office which individuals have been awarded an the overall number of people in relative poverty at honour for services to banking since 1984. [297099] Government office region level or for inner or outer Tessa Jowell: Short citations giving brief details of London. Therefore, information for the Tees Valley, or the reasons for awards to those receiving honours in the Middlesbrough, South and East Cleveland constituency Queen’s Birthday and New Year’s Honours Lists are is not available. published in the London Gazette. Estimates of the number of households who have left Ministers poverty are not available, as each year different households are surveyed to produce low income statistics in the Mr. Bone: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office households below average series. However, I am able to pursuant to the answer from the Secretary of State for provide information about the net change in the number Defence of 2 November 2009, Official Report, column of households with incomes below 60 per cent. of 576, and the answer of 28 October 2009, Official Report, contemporary median income over the period requested columns 272-73, what the evidential basis was for the for England and the north-east. statement made by the Secretary of State for Defence Between 1997-98 and 2007-08, the number of households that the Government had not amended the ranking of with incomes below 60 per cent. of contemporary median ministerial offices; and if she will make a statement. income in England rose by 100,000 before housing costs [298606] and fell by 400,000 after housing costs. Over the same Mr. Bob Ainsworth: I have been asked to reply. period, the total number of households in England rose by 1.4 million. There has been no downgrading of the Ministry of Defence. The List of Ministerial Responsibilities, published For the north-east, three years of data have had to be by the Cabinet Office, is an administrative document combined due to survey volatility. Between 1997-98 to which lists Departments in alphabetical order. The 1999-2000 and 2005-06 to 2007-08, the number of document also lists Cabinet Ministers on the basis of households with incomes below 60 per cent. of the date they are appointed to Cabinet. contemporary median income in the north-east stayed National School of Government at the same level before housing costs, but fell by 100,000 after housing costs. Over the same period, the Mr. Hayes: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet total number of households in the north-east stayed at Office which companies purchased consultancy the same level. services from the National School of Government in Notes: 2008-09; and if she will make a statement. [287747] 1. These statistics are based on households below average income, Angela E. Smith: This is a matter for the National sourced from the Family Resources Survey. The Family Resources School of Government. I have asked the principal and Survey is available in the Library. chief executive to respond. 2. Small changes should be treated with caution as these will be Letter from Rod Clark, dated 3 November 2009: affected by sampling error and variability in non-response. In the Written Ministerial Statement to the House on 9 January 3. The reference period for households below average income 2007 (Official Report Col 5WS), the then Parliamentary Secretary figures are single financial years. For the north-east, three years of for the Cabinet Office (Pat McFadden MP) announced that the data have had to be combined due to survey volatility. National School of Government was now a Non Ministerial 4. The income measures used to derive the estimates shown Department. Consequently, the Minister for the Cabinet Office employ the same methodology as the Department for Work and has asked me to reply to your Parliamentary Questions about the Pensions publication “Households Below Average Income”(HBAI) National School of Government. series, which uses disposable household income, adjusted (or The National School has income from consultancy of £2,616,000 ‘equivalised’) for household size and composition, as an income in 2008-09 out of total income of £29,368,000. (PQ 287739). measure as a proxy for standard of living. The National School does the large majority of its business 5. For the households below average income series, incomes have with the public sector. In 2008-09 the only consultancy work we been equivalised using Organisation for Economic Co-operation carried out for private sector companies was with Liberata UK and Development (OECD) equivalisation factors. Limited and Logica. Copies of the table showing the full list of organisations for 6. Change in numbers of households in low income and overall which we did consultancy work in the year will be placed in the have been rounded to the nearest hundred thousand. house Library. In addition I would note that the Department for International Development commissions the School to carry out international Vacancies work as part of the UK aid programme and thus some of the work paid for by DfID was carried out for foreign governments. (PQ 287747). Mr. Amess: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Poverty Office what the latest estimate is of the number of job vacancies in the UK; and if she will make a statement. Dr. Kumar: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office [298267] what estimate the UK Statistics Authority has made of the number of households in (a) England, (b) the North East, (c) Tees Valley and (d) Middlesbrough Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls South and East Cleveland constituency which have left within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. poverty since 1997. [297144] I have asked the authority to reply. 85W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 86W

Letter from Jil Matheson, dated November 2009: Attendance Allowance: St. Albans As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking what the latest estimate is of the Anne Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Work number of job vacancies in the UK. (298267) and Pensions how much was paid in attendance The Office for National Statistics estimates the number of allowance to residents of St. Albans constituency in vacancies from the Vacancy Survey for the United Kingdom. each of the last five years. [297534] The latest, seasonally adjusted estimate is that there were 434,000 vacancies in the United Kingdom over the 3 month period from July to September 2009. Jonathan Shaw: The available information is in the table. Young People: Fathers Attendance allowance expenditure in St. Albans parliamentary constituency Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Cash 2009-10 prices Office what information the Office of National 2004-05 4.2 4.7 Statistics holds on the number of teenage fathers in 2005-06 4.6 5.0 each of the last five years. [297959] 2006-07 4.8 5.1 Angela E. Smith: The information requested falls 2007-08 5.0 5.2 within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. 2008-09 5.4 5.4 I have asked the authority to reply. Notes: 1. Figures are in £ million and rounded to the nearest £100,000. Letter from Jil Matheson, dated November 2009: 2. Tables containing benefit expenditure by benefit, departmental As National Statistician I have been asked to reply to your strategic objective, local authority and parliamentary constituency request on what information the Office for National Statistics can be found at the following link and a copy has been placed in the Library: holds on the number of teenage fathers in each of the last five http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd4/medium_term.asp years. (297959) Source: The Office for National Statistics publishes figures compiled DWP Statistical and Accounting Data. from data collected at birth registration. Figures on the number of births registered to teenage fathers in England and Wales each Carer’s Allowance year can be found in the annual publication FMl Birth Statistics: www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/Product.asp?vlnk=5768 Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Volumes covering the five years up to 2007 are currently available and the 2008 volume is provisionally due for release in and Pensions what plans her Department has for the December 2009. future of the carer’s allowance; and if she will make a statement. [298188] Table 3.4 in each volume of FMl Birth Statistics shows the number of live births by age of father (single years of age) for births within marriage and births jointly registered by both parents. Jonathan Shaw: I refer my hon. Friend to the written In 2007, for example, there were 590 live births registered within answer I gave the hon. Member for Edinburgh, North marriage to fathers aged under 20 in England and Wales and and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz) on 28 October 2009, 12,994 live births outside marriage jointly registered to fathers Official Report, columns 355-56W. under 20. Please note that information on father’s age is not available for births registered solely by the mother. Therefore the number of Children: Maintenance births registered to fathers aged under 20 (within marriage and jointly registered outside marriage) does not represent the total Mr. Fallon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work number of births to teenage fathers in England and Wales. and Pensions how much (a) the Child Support Agency and (b) the Child Maintenance Enforcement Commission have outstanding in child support payments; and by how many people these sums are owed. [292508] WORK AND PENSIONS

Social Fund: Working Tax Credit Helen Goodman: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is responsible for the child maintenance system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Lynne Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Commissioner to write to the hon. Member with the and Pensions if she will make it her policy to extend information requested and I have seen the response. access to the social fund to those on working tax credit; and if she will make a statement. [296861] Letter from Stephen Geraghty: In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Helen Goodman: There are no plans at present to Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive extend access to the discretionary social fund to those reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child in receipt of working tax credit. However, people in Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance receipt of working tax credit have access to crisis loans and Enforcement Commission. if they have insufficient resources to meet their immediate You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how short-term needs. much (a) the Child Support Agency and (b) the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission have outstanding in child support People in receipt of working tax credit that includes a payments; and by how many people these sums are owed. [292508] disability element or who are also in receipt of the The information requested is provided in the attached table highest rate of child tax credit are eligible to apply for which shows the amount of arrears owed by non-resident parents funeral payments and maternity grants available (NRPs) to the Secretary of State (SoS) and the parent with care through the regulated social fund. (PWC) and the number of NRPs the arrears are owed by. 87W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 88W

Arrears outstanding: September 2009 Total SoS PWC CS2 CSCS CS2 CSCS CS2 CSCS

Number of NRPs 678,500 308,300 353,200 173,600 586,800 205,700 Arrears (£ billion) 1.98 1.89 0.85 1.04 1.13 0.86 Notes: 1. The Child Support Agency operates cases under two computer systems, CSCS and CS2. 2. The breakdown of non resident parents (NRPs) with outstanding arrears owed to Secretary of State (SoS) and Parent with Care (PwC) will be greater thanthe total number of non resident parents with arrears as some NRPs will owe money to both SoS and PWC. 3. In the information provided some cases have been excluded where the parent with care owes money. These cases are accounted for in Agency arrears figures, including those used in the Agency’s Quarterly Summary of Statistics, which will therefore differ from figures in this response.

Cold Weather Payments: St. Albans Postcode district Weather station Years Anne Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Work AL1-4 Andrewsfield 2002-03 onwards and Pensions how many cold weather payments have HP3 Bracknell 2002-03 been made to residents of St. Albans constituency in HP3 High Wycombe 2003-04 onwards each year since 2003. [297592] WD2, 4-5, 7, 25 Heathrow 2002-03 onwards Helen Goodman: The St. Albans constituency is currently linked to three weather stations. The postcode districts The numbers of times cold weather payments have in St. Albans constituency and the associated weather been triggered at these weather stations in each year station for each year are shown in the following table. since 2002-03 are given in the table.

Cold weather payment triggers at each weather station Andrewsfield Bracknell High Wycombe Heathrow

2002-03 1 1 1—0 2003-04 0 1—00 2004-05 0 1—00 2005-06 0 1—00 2006-07 0 1—00 2007-08 0 1—00 2008-09 3 1—31 1Denotes not applicable: the weather station was not used in the cold weather payment scheme in that year. Source: DWP records.

It is not possible to give the estimated number of Council tax benefit expenditure, by country since 1997 in cash terms payments made in 2002-03 and 2008-09 to residents of £ million, cash St. Albans constituency as this information is not available Great at constituency level but by weather station only (and England Wales Scotland Britain the above weather stations cover a wider area than just 2006-07 3,386 184 373 3,943 this constituency). 2007-08 3,468 189 366 4,023 Council Tax Benefit Note: Includes all expenditure whether funded by central or local government. Source: Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Local Authority Council Tax Benefit subsidy claims and Pensions how much was paid out in council tax Council tax receipts in England are a matter for my benefit as a proportion of council tax receipts in each right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities year since 1997. [297211] and Local Government; in Scotland they are a matter for the Scottish Parliament; and in Wales they are a Helen Goodman: The available information on council matter for the National Assembly for Wales. tax benefit expenditure is in the following table. Council tax benefit expenditure, by country since 1997 in cash terms Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Work £ million, cash and Pensions what percentage of households in each Great (a) region and (b) local authority area were in receipt England Wales Scotland Britain of council tax benefit in each of the last three years. [297253] 1997-98 2,014 94 287 2,395 1998-99 2,046 103 303 2,452 Helen Goodman: The available information has been 1999- 2,096 108 307 2,511 placed in the Library. 2000 2000-01 2,146 119 310 2,575 Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2001-02 2,246 124 316 2,686 and Pensions how many households in (a) private, (b) 2002-03 2,381 131 322 2,834 local authority and (c) registered social landlord 2003-04 2,744 142 337 3,223 rented homes were in receipt of (i) housing and (ii) 2004-05 3,039 160 358 3,557 council tax benefit in each region in each year since 2005-06 3,230 176 368 3,774 1997. [297254] 89W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 90W

Helen Goodman: The available information has been were in receipt of council tax benefit in each year since placed in the Library. 1997. [297290]

Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Helen Goodman: The available information is in the and Pensions how many households in each region following tables.

Number of households receiving council tax benefit by Government Office Region in Great Britain: May 1997 to May 2009 May 1997 May 1998 May 1999 May 2000 May 2001 May 2002 May 2003

Great Britain 5,498,250 5,325,660 5,166,070 4,830,060 4,673,370 4,601,730 4,627,780 North East 333,100 321,980 316,160 301,800 296,110 289,750 288,820 North West 790,900 764,200 735,230 690,890 658,710 649,100 639,210 Yorkshire and The Humber 524,430 507,130 494,770 454,910 437,500 428,430 434,520 East Midlands 359,650 344,010 336,800 316,180 305,450 288,990 296,330 West Midlands 538,660 524,940 505,820 474,790 463,370 458,530 462,340 East 408,580 390,820 377,670 353,800 341,240 335,910 342,330 London 759,720 728,260 692,540 628,650 607,160 615,320 633,530 South East 525,200 500,740 480,300 448,720 431,710 424,700 432,000 South West 385,960 370,780 354,930 338,910 326,180 320,080 321,860 Wales 287,000 282,680 277,240 267,200 263,930 260,290 257,440 Scotland 585,050 590,130 594,610 554,230 542,000 530,640 519,390

May 2004 May 2005 May 2006 May 2007 November 2008 May 2009

Great Britain 4,800,220 4,959,690 5,049,970 5,076,940 5,152,270 5,428,230 North East 291,340 294,480 294,770 294,630 296,580 309,980 North West 662,830 676,150 679,830 682,560 685,800 712,430 Yorkshire and The Humber 436,650 448,750 457,810 460,700 464,280 491,470 East Midlands 309,810 324,080 334,860 336,400 349,430 375,020 West Midlands 468,410 482,030 499,200 503,850 514,480 544,370 East 357,400 371,370 383,960 391,350 405,300 429,980 London 672,070 708,440 717,610 724,440 728,320 751,040 South East 457,360 481,010 497,190 502,220 520,140 556,400 South West 337,770 354,720 365,610 368,860 377,750 406,240 Wales 266,870 274,800 282,290 282,250 289,440 304,000 Scotland 539,710 543,870 536,850 529,680 520,760 547,300 Notes: 1. The data refers to benefit units, which may be a single person or a couple. 2. The figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. 3. Figures may not sum due to rounding. 4. Council Tax Benefit figures exclude any Single Adult Rebate cases. Sources: Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Management Information System Quarterly 100 per cent. taken in May 1997 to May 2007; and Single Housing Benefit Extract (SHBE) for November 2008 and May 2009. For an understanding of improvements in methodology for Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit caseload National Statistics, please visit: http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/hb_ctb/Methodology_revision_webpage.pdf

Credit Unions Crisis Loans Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for and Pensions how many crisis loans in each of the last Work and Pensions in which local authority areas credit 24 months were for (a) living expenses, (b) items and unions and similar organisations have received funding (c) living expenses and items; and if she will make a from the Growth Fund in all rounds of funding to date. statement. [298850] [295491] Helen Goodman: The information requested is not available. Helen Goodman [holding answer 26 October 2009]: Departmental Motor Vehicles The information has been placed in the House of Commons Andrew Stunell: To ask the Secretary of State for Library. It provides details of local authority areas Work and Pensions how much her Department spent where Growth Fund contracted organisations, including on hire vehicles in each of the last five financial years. Credit Unions and Community Development Finance [291509] Institutions, are located. Jim Knight: Information is not available for 2004-05 Over 184,000 people have benefited from affordable or 2005-06. The amount spent on the hire of vehicles in loans with coverage extending beyond named local the last three years is as follows: authority boundaries. Growth Fund is focused on the areas of highest £ million financial exclusion and an extra £18.75 million from the 2006-07 1.5 April budget is helping us reach more of these areas and 2007-08 1.5 help more people. 91W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 92W

Estimate of income support lone parents with school-aged children who moved £ million from welfare to work in a recent five-year period Doncaster local area England 2008-09 2.3 2004-05 460 51,500 Please note that these figures do not include use of 2005-06 440 54,000 the Government Car Service. 2006-07 400 50,600 The increase in hire costs of £0.8 million is offset by a 2007-08 420 54,700 reduction of £3.6 million in 2008-09 of personal car 2008-09 460 59,100 costs, reflecting a policy to reduce personal car use. Notes: 1. The England figures include Doncaster. 2. The data includes only those lone The figures provided should be read in the context of parents who leave income support (IS) into employment. a Department of over 100,000 staff operating from over 3. The data excludes lone parents who move into employment but remain on benefit. 1,000 office locations across the country. 4. School-aged children are taken to be those children aged 5 to 15. Source: Estimates based on Department for Work and Pensions benefits administrative Employment Support Allowance data and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs P45 employment data.

Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what steps her Department has taken to Housing Benefit ensure that autistic people are informed about entitlement to employment support allowance. [295219] Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what percentage of households in each Jonathan Shaw: The Department is working with a (a) region and (b) local authority area was in receipt wide range of organisations, including the Department of housing benefit in each of the last three years. of Health and the National Autistic Society, to identify [297257] ways in which its services can be improved for people with autism. In particular, the Department is working Helen Goodman: The available information has been with both organisations following the recent consultation, placed in the Library. led by the Department of Health, ‘A better future: a consultation on a future strategy for adults with autistic spectrum conditions’ and the publication on 15 October Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009 of the Public Accounts Committee report ‘Supporting Work and Pensions when she plans to publish the people with autism through adulthood’. Both these results of her Department’s consultation on changes to publications make wide-ranging recommendations and the local housing allowance. [297402] formal responses to both will be made in due course. Jobcentre Plus, an of the Department Helen Goodman [holding answer 2 November 2009]: for Work and Pensions, delivers services to a wide range The Department consulted on proposals to remove the of customers, including those with autism. Disability up to £15 weekly housing benefit excess that customers Employment Advisers within Jobcentres have received can receive over and above their contractual rent under formal training which includes autism interview skills the local housing allowance arrangements. In addition and all Jobcentres have access to their services. to the consultation carried out by the Department, the Social Security Advisory Committee also carried out a Employment: Autism consultation. We are considering carefully the responses to the consultation and the recommendations made by the Social Security Advisory Committee, and will announce Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for our response in due course. Work and Pensions (1) how many and what proportion of people with autism are in employment in Birmingham; [296202] Lynne Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what the cost of housing benefit rent (2) what assessment she has made of levels of access rebates was in (a) England and (b) London in (i) 1980, to employment for adults with autism; and if she will (ii) 1990, (iii) 1995 and (iv) in each of the last five years make a statement. [296203] for which figures are available. [299117] Jonathan Shaw: The information requested is not available. Helen Goodman: The available information is in the following table: Employment: Lone Parents Housing benefit rent rebate expenditure £ million England London Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many lone parents with school-age 1980-81 2,306 — children have moved from welfare into work (a) in the 1990-91 2,709 — Doncaster local authority area and (b) in England in each of the last five years for which figures are 1995-96 4,537 1,149 available. [298655] 2003-04 4,220 1,317 Helen Goodman: The available information is in the 2004-05 4,373 1,480 following table: 2005-06 4,419 1,579 93W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 94W

Housing benefit rent rebate expenditure Housing Benefit: Council Tax Benefit £ million England London Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2006-07 4,505 1,671 and Pensions how many and what percentage of (a) 2007-08 4,579 1,742 housing benefit and (b) council tax benefit recipients Notes: 1. Figures include all rent rebate expenditure, whether funded by central or local were (i) of working age and (ii) elderly in each year government. since 1997. [297210] 2. Figures are in millions of pounds. 3. Figures are in cash terms. 4. Information for London is not available for 1989-90 and 1990-91. Source: Helen Goodman: The available information is in the Local authority subsidy claims. tables.

Number and proportion of housing benefit recipients by working/pension age: Great Britain May 1997-May 2003 Percentage of recipients aged Aged 60 and over Aged under 60 60 and over Under 60

May 1997 1,853,000 2,786,000 39.9 60.1 May 1998 1,826,000 2,649,000 40.8 59.2 May 1999 1,769,000 2,544,000 41.0 59.0 May 2000 1,693,000 2,340,000 42.0 58.0 May 2001 1,664,000 2,211,000 42.9 57.1 May 2002 1,627,000 2,186,000 42.7 57.3 May 2003 1,598,000 2,198,000 42.1 57.9

Number and percentage of housing benefit recipients by working/pension age: Great Britain May 2004-May 2007 Percentage of recipients aged Aged 60 and over Aged under 60 60 and over Under 60

May 2004 1,550,790 2,328,630 40.0 60.0 May 2005 1,518,010 2,438,800 38.4 61.6 May 2006 1,491,060 2,498,970 37.4 62.6 May 2007 1,495,140 2,536,670 37.1 62.9

Number and percentage of housing benefit recipients by working/pension age: Great Britain November 2008-May 2009 Percentage of recipients aged Aged 60 and over Aged under 60 60 and over Under 60

November 2008 1,512,650 2,638,680 36.3 63.3 May 2009 1,522,930 2,854,230 34.6 64.8

Number and proportion of council tax benefit recipients by working/pension age: Great Britain May 1997-May 2003 Percentage of recipients aged Aged 60 and over Aged under 60 60 and over Under 60

May 1997 2,646,000 2,853,000 48.1 51.9 May 1998 2,614,000 2,712,000 49.1 50.9 May 1999 2,542,000 2,624,000 49.2 50.8 May 2000 2,419,000 2,411,000 50.1 49.9 May 2001 2,403,000 2,270,000 51.4 48.6 May 2002 2,362,000 2,240,000 51.3 48.7 May 2003 2,357,000 2,271,000 50.9 49.1

Number and proportion of council tax benefit recipients by working/pension age: Great Britain May 2004-May 2007 Percentage of recipients aged Aged 60 and over Aged under 60 60 and over Under 60

May 2004 2,406,780 2,393,440 50.1 49.9 May 2005 2,444,610 2,515,090 49.3 50.7 May 2006 2,470,760 2,579,210 48.9 51.1 May 2007 2,519,820 2,557,120 49.6 50.4

Number and proportion of council tax benefit recipients by working/pension age: Great Britain November 2008-May 2009 Percentage of recipients aged Aged 60 and over Aged under 60 60 and over Under 60

November 2008 2,542,440 2,600,860 49.3 50.5 95W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 96W

Number and proportion of council tax benefit recipients by working/pension age: Great Britain November 2008-May 2009 Percentage of recipients aged Aged 60 and over Aged under 60 60 and over Under 60

May 2009 2,564,580 2,822,800 47.2 52.0 Notes: 1. The data refer to benefit units, which may be a single person or a couple. 2. Information for 1997-2003 is based on a 1 per cent. sample and is therefore subject to a degree of sampling variation. 3. The data refer to benefit units, which may be a single person or a couple. 4. Figures for 1997-2003 have been rounded to the nearest thousand. Figures for 2004-2009 have been rounded to the nearest ten. 5. Figures for any non-responding authorities have been estimated. 6. Housing benefit figures exclude any extended payment cases. 7. Council tax benefit figures exclude any single adult rebate cases. Sources: Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Management Information System, Annual 1 per cent. sample, taken from May 1997-May 2003: Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Management Information System Quarterly 100 per cent. taken in May 2004-May 2007: and Single Housing Benefit Extract (SHBE) for May 2009 taken from table 8 and table 14 of publication at http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/hb_ctb/HBCTB19082009.xls

For an understanding of improvements in methodology Helen Goodman: The Department has not undertaken for housing benefit and council tax benefit case load a specific exercise to identify the costs of implementing National Statistics, please visit: this proposal to local authorities. However, local authorities http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/hb_ctb/ are normally expected to absorb the cost of such Methodology_revision_ webpage.pdf amendments. Members: Pensions Local Housing Allowance Dr. Richard Taylor: To ask the Secretary of State for Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether the Pension Protection Work and Pensions how many people are in receipt of Fund Levy has received contributions from the local housing allowance in each local authority area. Parliamentary Pension Scheme since 2004. [294226] [298412] Angela Eagle: The Parliamentary Contributory Pension Helen Goodman: The available information has been Fund is not an eligible occupational pension scheme for placed in the Library. the purposes of qualification for the Pension Protection Fund and therefore does not pay the pension protection Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for levy. Work and Pensions how many responses she has New Deal for Lone Parents received to the consultation document Changes to the local housing allowance: consultation on draft regulations. [298648] Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether any financial penalty applies to Helen Goodman: The Department for Work and Pensions claimants in respect of the New Deal for Lone Parents consulted over the summer on proposals to remove the if the interviewer does not consider the interview was up to £15 weekly excess that customers can receive over satisfactory. [296764] and above their contractual rent under the local housing allowance arrangements. In addition, the Social Security Helen Goodman: If a lone parent agrees to take Advisory Committee also carried out a consultation. advantage of the support available via the new deal for The overall number of responses to both consultations lone parents they will be invited to a series of non- amounted to 38 of which 24 were specific to the Department mandatory meetings with their personal adviser to discuss for Work and Pensions. what they will need to do and the support available to them, to help them into work. Non-attendance or non- Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for participation at these meetings, or non-compliance with Work and Pensions how many local housing allowance the actions agreed, does not result in a financial sanction claimants receive the maximum excess payment of £15. to benefit. [298650] Pension Credit

Helen Goodman: This information is not available. Mr. McLoughlin: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many households in (a) the Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for UK, (b) Derbyshire and (c) West Derbyshire received Work and Pensions what estimate she has made of the pension credit in each year since its inception. [297977] cost to local authorities of administering the proposed withdrawal of excess payments to local housing Angela Eagle: The information requested is in the allowance claimants. [298651] following table.

Households in receipt of pension credit

Great Britain Derbyshire county West Derbyshire parliamentary constituency

November 2003 2,084,700 25,700 2,470 97W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 98W

Households in receipt of pension credit Great Britain Derbyshire county West Derbyshire parliamentary constituency

February 2004 2,282,290 28,620 2,840 February 2005 2,654,670 34,400 3,550 February 2006 2,709,220 35,130 3,550 February 2007 2,730,940 35,280 3,570 February 2008 2,723,140 34,900 3,500 February 2009 2,723,610 34,670 3,520 Notes: 1. The number of households in receipt are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. Household recipients are those people who claim pension credit either for themselves only or on behalf of a partner. Source: DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study.

Social Security Benefits queries. Jobcentre Plus will offer a call back service should any MP express their concerns in respect of John Mason: To ask the Secretary of State for Work charges. and Pensions how many people claimed each type of The Pension, Disability and Carers Service provide a benefit in (a) each parliamentary constituency in dedicated telephone service for the express use of Members Scotland and (b) the UK in the most recent period for of Parliament who require information on pensioner or which figures are available. [288940] disability and carer-related matters. The helpline numbers are 0113 232 4279 (Pensions) and 01253 333233/333533 Jim Knight: The requested information has been placed (Disability/Carers), both geographic numbers. PDCS in the Library. will also offer a call back service should any MP express their concerns in respect of charges. Social Security Benefits: Bexley Unemployment Benefits Mr. Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many residents in (a) Bexleyheath Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Crayford and (b) the London Borough of Bexley and Pensions how many households were in receipt of are in receipt of (i) housing benefit and (ii) council tax both council tax benefit and housing benefit in each benefit. [298115] year since 1997. [297398]

Helen Goodman: The available information is in the Helen Goodman: Information is not available for table. 2005-07; the available information is in the following Recipients of housing benefit and council tax benefit in the London tables. borough of Bexley, May 2009 Recipients of both housing benefit and council tax benefit: Great Number Britain May 1997 to May 2004 Number Housing benefit recipients 12,330 Council tax benefit recipients 16,060 1997 3,990,000 Notes: 1998 3,890,000 1. The data refer to benefit units, which may be a single person or a 1999 3,790,000 couple. 2000 3,570,000 2. The figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. 3. Housing benefit figures exclude any extended payment cases. 2001 3,460,000 4. Council tax benefit figures exclude second adult rebates. 2002 3,430,000 Source: 2003 3,450,000 Single Housing Benefit Extract (SHBE) for May 2009 taken from 2004 3,550,000 Table 1 of publication at: http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/hb_ctb/ HBCTB19082009.xls Notes: 1. The figures are based on a 1 per cent sample and are therefore Telephone Services subject to sampling variation. 2. Caseload data are rounded to the nearest ten thousand due to the estimation procedure used to produce the figures. Mark Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for 3. The data refer to benefit units, which may be a single person or a Work and Pensions what her Department’s policy is on couple. call charges for hon. Members for use of a telephone Source: Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Management Information hotline on behalf of their constituents; and if she will System annual 1 per cent make a statement. [292830] Recipients of both housing benefit and council tax benefit: Great Britain November 2008 and May 2009 Jim Knight: In Jobcentre Plus (part of the DWP) Number district managers are in regular contact with their local MPs in order to offer the personal assistance they need. 2008 3,713,010 Any hon. Member with a query about any benefits 2009 3,904,620 should contact the Jobcentre Plus district manager who Notes: has overall responsibility for the service to local residents. 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. Figures are at November 2008 and May 2009. This service is provided through the district manager’s 3. Recipients are as at second Thursday of the month. office using geographic numbers and will give hon. Source: Members effective support for a range of different Single Housing Benefit Extract (SHBE) 99W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 100W

Welfare to Work: Standards Mr. Douglas Alexander: I refer the hon. Member to the Cabinet Office annual list of overseas travel in Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for Work excess of £500 undertaken by Ministers. The 2008-09 and Pensions what age-based criteria there are in list was published on 16 July 2009 and can be viewed at: contracts between her Department and private sector http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/propriety_and_ethics/ welfare-to-work providers. [296849] ministers/travel_gifts.aspx Travel by Ministers is undertaken in accordance with Jim Knight [holding answer 2 November 2009]: the Ministerial Code. Contracted employment provision may be targeted at specific benefit claimants and or specific customer groups. Mr. Andrew Turner: To ask the Secretary of State for Age based criteria apply to some benefits and some International Development how many first-class flights provision, and this will necessarily be reflected in the (a) he, (b) the Minister of State and (c) the contracts. Department for Work and Pensions contracts Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State took on comply with all relevant legislation including that related official business between 1 January and 1 October to age. 2009; and what the (i) destination, (ii) purpose and (iii) Additional information can be found in the Library. cost of each flight was. [298881] Mr. Douglas Alexander: I refer the hon. Member to the Cabinet Office annual list of overseas travel in excess of £500 undertaken by Ministers. The 2008-09 INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT list was published on 16 July 2009 and can be viewed at: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/propriety_and_ethics/ Afghanistan: Overseas Aid ministers/travel_gifts.aspx The 2009-10 list will be published as soon as possible Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for after the end of the financial year. International Development how much has been spent Travel by Ministers is undertaken in accordance with on the alternative livelihoods programme in the Ministerial Code. Afghanistan in each year since 2001. [297884] Departmental Freedom of Information Mr. Douglas Alexander: The Department for International Development (DFID) funds a range of Mrs. Laing: To ask the Secretary of State for programmes to support the promotion of alternative International Development how many staff in his livelihoods in Afghanistan. These include funding for Department were employed on the management of agriculture, rural and private sector development. DFID freedom of information requests submitted to his spend on these programmes since 2001 is as follows: Department in each year since 2005; and how much his Department spent on the management of such requests £ in each such year. [299122] 2002 354,000 2003 3,000,000 Mr. Michael Foster: The requested information could 2004 4,500,000 be provided only at disproportionate cost. Since 2005 a 2005 18,300,000 number of staff have worked on freedom of information 2006 30,500,000 (FOI) management; however, they were also engaged in other duties and it is not possible to disaggregate time 2007 14,100,000 and expenditure on each activity. 2008 25,700,000 Departmental Postal Services Last year DFID helped provide alternative livelihoods to farmers in Helmand by distributing wheat seed to over 13,000 farmers in the province. In addition, the Mr. Scott: To ask the Secretary of State for UK participated in a voucher scheme providing seed International Development what percentage of postal and fertiliser to a further 147,000 farmers in nine provinces services provided for his Department were provided by in Afghanistan. (a) Royal Mail and (b) other postal service providers (i) in 2007, (ii) in 2008, (iii) between 1 January and There have been real signs of progress in farmers 1 July 2009 and (iv) since 1 July 2009. [298733] moving away from poppy cultivation. In September, the UN confirmed a 22 per cent. fall in opium cultivation in David T.C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Afghanistan from 2008—this includes a 33 per cent. fall International Development what percentage of postal in Helmand, the heart of poppy cultivation. services for his Department were provided by (a) Royal Mail and (b) other postal service providers (i) in Departmental Air Travel 2007, (ii) in 2008, (iii) between 1 January and 1 July 2009 and (iv) after 1 July 2009. [298730] Mr. Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how many first-class flights Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International were taken by Ministers of his Department in 2008-09; Development uses the Royal Mail for the majority of its which Minister took each such flight; what the (a) postal services, the remainder being a direct mail service origin and (b) destination was of each such flight; and between its two UK offices and a small volume of what the cost to the public purse was in each case. ad-hoc couriered post. The relevant proportion of post [298366] is as follows: 101W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 102W

between Government and the voluntary and community Percentage sector which recognises shared values, principles and Royal Mail Other commitments and sets out guidelines for how both 2007 82 18 parties should work together. 2008 84 16 The Compact includes guidelines on consultation January to 1 July 2009 86 14 which DFID strongly supports. For any new centrally After 1 July 2009 84 16 managed DFID funding scheme, which potentially impacts on civil society, we ensure that we hold a full and open Developing Countries: HIV Infection consultation process which specifically seeks the views of the sector. Our direct spend through our country offices is governed Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for by Country Plans. These plans set medium-term strategic International Development what steps his Department priorities for our work at country level and determine is taking to encourage pharmaceutical companies to key programming choices that will make best use of participate in the UNITAID patent pool to make HIV DFID resources in a particular country to meet identified medicines more affordable. [298905] development needs. Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International All DFID country offices producing a Country Plan Development (DFID) has taken every opportunity—in must follow the ‘Best Practice Guide’. This guide states speeches, statements to the press and in private that DFID country offices must include a 12 week meetings with company representatives—to encourage consultation via the DFID website and that the target pharmaceutical companies to engage with UNITAID audience must include civil society and the voluntary while it is in the process of developing an operational sector. plan for a patent pool for HIV medicines. The UK Government, as a member of the board, looks forward Overseas Aid: Education to considering UNITAID’s completed proposals for a patent pool in the UNITAID board meeting in December. Mr. Tom Clarke: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what recent steps his Developing Countries: Zinc Department has taken towards achieving universal (a) basic education and (b) literacy in the developing Mr. Tom Clarke: To ask the Secretary of State for world. [298333] International Development what recent steps he has taken to increase the supply of zinc tablets to Mr. Michael Foster: The information is as follows: developing countries. [298336] (a) The Department for International Development (DFID) supports partner governments by providing Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International long-term predictable funding to enable them to develop Development’s (DFID) new evidence paper, “The neglected and implement their education sector plans. The UK is crisis of undernutrition: Evidence for action”, acknowledges actively engaged in galvanising action through international the importance and cost effectiveness of zinc bodies such as the G8. Recent successes include last supplementation for maternal and child nutrition and September’s Education Partnership meeting in New health. This is available on-line: York where UK Government activity helped the delivery http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Documents/publications/nutrition- of international pledges and commitments to education evidence-paper.pdf totalling over $4.5 billion. This year DFID is supporting, The forthcoming Nutrition strategy will also include in part by providing up to £1 million, the Global support to scaling-up direct nutritional interventions, Campaign for Education’s “1 GOAL” campaign, which including zinc. aims to use the power of the 2010 football World Cup DFID provides £21 million a year to UNICEF which to raise the profile of education. leads efforts to increase zinc supply to developing countries. (b) DFID is committed in partnership with other Although there is still a vast unmet need, the number of donors, to the realisation of all six goals of the Education tablets distributed has increased from 20 million in 2006 for All (EFA) agenda. Through our long-term commitment to 91 million in 2008. At a national level, DFID has also to provide £8.5 billion in support of education overseas provided support to increase supply. For example, we to 2015, we are supporting poor countries to invest in are currently providing £7.5 million over five years to quality basic education, including lower secondary, to the International Centre for Diarrhoeal Disease Research ensure that children attain the fundamental skills they in Bangladesh, which has carried out extensive trials on need to participate in social and economic life. In addition ‘baby zinc’—a medicine for young children. to mainstream school education, DFID has recently supported adult literacy programmes in Uganda, Kenya, Overseas Aid India and Yemen, as well as through humanitarian aid programmes. Mr. Tom Clarke: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what steps his Department Peru: Dams takes to engage with civil society in developing countries when distributing aid. [298332] Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what financial contribution Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International the UK has made to hydroelectric dam projects in Peru Development (DFID) is a signatory to the Cabinet via the (a) World Bank Group, (b) European Bank for Office managed Compact. The Compact is an agreement Reconstruction and Development, (c) European 103W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 104W

Investment Bank and (d) other financial institutions nations includes a strong chapter on sustainable funded from the public purse; and if he will make a development, and are working with other member states statement. [297406] to improve the Sustainability Impact Assessment process. Officials are also working to ensure that a human rights Mr. Thomas: The UK has made no recent bilateral clause will be included as an essential element. financial contribution to hydroelectric dam projects in Peru via (a) World Bank Group, (b) European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD), (c) CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES European Investment Bank (EIB) or (d) other financial institutions. Academies The UK holds shares or capital in the World Bank Group, EBRD, EIB and Inter-American Development Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Bank. It is not possible to allocate these pooled Children, Schools and Families (1) what estimate he (a) (b) contributions to specific projects. Information on financial has made of the number of and the cost to his contributions made to hydroelectric dam projects in Department of unfilled places for 16 to 19 year-olds in Peru via these or other financial institutions using UK academies; [297039] funding is not held centrally. (2) what mechanism exists for the return to his Department of funding allocated to academies for 16 The EBRD is not active in Latin America, so has to 19 year-olds that remains unused at the end of made no financial contribution to any projects in Peru. financial year 2008-09. [297046] Peru: EC External Trade Mr. Coaker: The Department identifies unfilled places in local authority maintained schools and academies Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for through an annual surplus places survey. In 2008 the International Development what discussions he has survey established that there were 2,673 or 8 per cent. of had with (a) the European Commission and (b) his unfilled 16 to 19-year-old places in academies with all European counterparts on the environmental and year groups present. However, each year academy 16 to social effects of the EU free trade agreement with Peru; 19-year-old funding is normally allocated on the basis and if he will make a statement. [297405] of estimates by the academy of the number of pupils aged over 16 that are on roll for the next September Mr. Thomas: The Secretary of State for International (except for that small minority of academies where Development has not personally had discussions with these are based on actual census numbers). Each academy’s European colleagues regarding the European Union estimate is considered in the light of its actual recruitment (EU)—Andean Nations multiparty trade agreement. against funded numbers, with a view to ensuring that The UK Government regard the environmental and unfilled funded places for 16 to 19-year-olds are kept to social impacts of all free trade agreements as important an absolute minimum. This process takes account of considerations. Officials in the joint Department for local Learning and Skills Council information on provision International Development/Business, Innovation and in the relevant area. Skills (DFID/BIS) Trade Policy Unit have worked with For those academies where funded places are based the EU to ensure a strong chapter on sustainable on estimates, a clause in their funding agreement stipulates development, and are working with other member states that an adjustment will be made to the following year’s to improve the Sustainability Impact Assessment process. formulaic grant allocation if the actual numbers recruited Officials are also working to ensure that any trade across all year groups are more than either 10 per cent. agreement with the Andean nations will contain a human or 2.5 per cent. (depending on the funding agreement) rights clause as an essential element. The UK Government below the total estimated numbers on roll, 16 to 19-year-old regard agreements of this nature as important for economic pupils are included in this calculation. growth in developing countries, which by helping to Academies: Sponsorship reduce poverty will improve social welfare in these countries. Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families what the monetary Gregory Barker: To ask the Secretary of State for value is of sponsorship funds provided by his International Development what his policy is on the Department for united learning trusts, broken down by suspension of EU free trade agreement negotiations (a) year of funding and (b) academy school in receipt with Peru; and if he will make a statement. [297407] of the funds in the last three years. [296534] Mr. Thomas: The negotiations on the EU-Andean Mr. Coaker [holding answer 29 October 2009]: The Nations (comprising Peru and Colombia) multi-party Department does not provide funding for sponsors. trade agreement have not been suspended. We support Sponsors establish not-for-profit charitable companies the negotiations and believe that the agreement will be to set up and run the academies; and these companies important for further economic, and hence social, receive funding from the Department and sponsors. development in the region. There are two models for sponsors’ payments: traditional The UK Government regard the environmental and procurement and the endowment model. On the first of social impacts of all free trade agreements as important these, the sponsorship payment is a contribution to the considerations. Officials in the joint Department for construction cost of academy buildings, normally of International Development/Business, Innovation and £2 million, but in the case of sponsors with their fourth Skills (DFID/BIS) Trade Policy Unit have worked with or more academy, £1.5 million. The timing of this the EU to ensure any agreement with the Andean payment is usually phased and varies from academy to 105W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 106W academy and is agreed between the Department and the Support Service practitioners has been (a) in total and Academy Trust. ULT sponsors 13 traditional procurement (b) per head in each of the last two years. [298688] academies: Manchester; Dawn Primarolo: CAFCASS’ total spend on training ; was £1.119 million in 2008/09 and £1.171 million in Northampton; 2007/08. Salford; CAFCASS does not hold information on the split of Barnsley; these amounts between practitioners and other staff groups so cannot give an accurate per head figure. Paddington; Sheffield Park; Children: Communication Skills Sheffield Springs; Walthamstow; Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for North Oxfordshire; Children, Schools and Families if he will take steps to Swindon; assist more local authorities to implement the William Hulme; and recommendations of the Bercow review of services for Stockport children and young people with speech, language and The traditional procurement model was changed to the communications needs; and if he will make a endowment model when responsibility for the provision statement. [298787] of academy buildings was transferred to Partnerships for Schools (PfS). Ms Diana R. Johnson: Following the Bercow review With the endowment model, sponsors establish an of services for children and young people with speech, language and communication needs (SLCN), the endowment fund which generates revenue for the Academy ″ Company to use to counteract the impact of deprivation Government published Better Communication: An action plan to improve services for children and young people on the communities they serve. This revenue is not used ″ for either capital costs or to meet the academy’s running with SLCN , backed by £12 million investment. costs, which are funded by the Department. As part of the action plan, the Department and the With the endowment model, payments by sponsors Department of Health have chosen 16 local areas to begin only after the academy has opened, and are become SLCN commissioning pathfinders. The 16 pilot usually phased over a period of five years. ULT currently areas have been chosen to identify good practice in sponsor four endowment model academies: providing support for children with SLCN through the joint working of organisations such as primary care Accrington; trusts and local authorities. This will be used to develop Midhurst Rother; a national framework to improve the way services are Kettering Buccleuch; and delivered for children across the country. Shoreham. Jean Gross was announced as the communication In some traditional procurement model academies champion on 15 October 2009, and we have established (including some ULT academies), particularly where a the Communication Council, which met for the first sponsor has several academy projects and needs time to time on 21 September 2009, to support initiatives to raise sponsorship contributions, the Department has improve services for children with SLCN. As agreed to pay an additional grant to the Academy Trust communication champion, Jean Gross will raise awareness to cover part of a sponsor’s agreed sponsorship payment. of the importance of communication, share good practice This is then recovered by the Department through and lead delivery of a national year of speech, language deductions from the academy’s ″General Annual Grant and communication. (GAG)″, which academies receive to meet their running In addition, the University of Warwick has been costs. Academy sponsors then make contributions to selected to lead a consortium delivering a three-year, the academies to make good these deductions. £1.5 million research programme on the cost-effectiveness For some multiple academy sponsors, such as ULT, of interventions and to guide the development of future who have already committed £2 million to a number of policy and practice in providing services for children academy projects, we have agreed that the sponsor can and young people with SLCN. use ″reasonable endeavours″ to raise funds. To date, 12 organisations working to support children with payments made by sponsors to academy companies in alternative and augmentative communication needs have relation to the traditional procurement model amount been chosen to share grants totalling £500,000 this year to almost £100 million, of which ULT have paid almost as part of BECTA’s commitment to provide £1.5 million £11 million. of funding over the next three years. These grants aim A table setting out the Department’s funding for each to support delivery and provision of services. ULT academy from 2001/02 to 2009/10 has been placed in the Libraries. Children: Day Care

CAFCASS: Finance Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families what estimate he has Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for made of the annual cost of providing 10 hours of free Children, Schools and Families what the training childcare to 250,000 two year olds; and in which year budget for Children and Family Court Advisory and he expects such provision to commence. [298467] 107W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 108W

Dawn Primarolo: The extension of the free early Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, education entitlement to 250,000 two-year-olds will be Schools and Families how many teachers employed in in place by 2015. This extension is being fully funded the European Schools are paid the threshold. [297904] through savings from phasing out tax relief on child care vouchers. More details will be set out in the pre-Budget Mr. Coaker: 50 teachers employed in the European report. Schools system receive threshold pay. Children: Protection European Union: Primary Education

Tim Loughton: To ask the Secretary of State for Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many people Children, Schools and Families pursuant to the answer previously convicted of crimes have successfully of 30 June 2009, Official Report, column 232W, on the appealed against a decision to bar them from working European Union: primary education, what information with children, broken down by type of offence on the European Union his Department permits EU committed. [294119] institutions to distribute to primary schools. [295596]

Dawn Primarolo [holding answer 19 October 2009]: Mr. Coaker: The Department does not endorse any Information on appeals can be found on the First Tier specific teaching resources and it is for teachers to use Tribunal’s website at: their professional judgment in determining which materials www.carestandardstribunal.gov.uk to use in the classroom. This contains information on the decisions made by the In addition, European Union institutions have a policy Tribunal on all appeal cases which have received a of distributing publications only on demand. They do hearing since 2001. There are 94 cases where people not send out unsolicited information. have appealed against decisions to bar them from working with children. Of these, 34 appeals were upheld by the Families: Prison Tribunal. Locating and retrieving the information requested on whether the individuals had been convicted of offences, Mrs. : To ask the Secretary of State for and the type of offence would require detailed checks to Children, Schools and Families (1) what programmes be made of individual case records and this would incur his Department has to support the families of those disproportionate cost. who are in prison; [298706] European Schools (2) how many Sure Start children’s centres have programmes in place to provide appropriate support Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, for the families of those who are in prison. [298707] Schools and Families how many teachers working in the European Schools obtained the threshold as a Dawn Primarolo: The Department recognises that result of the Employment Appeals Tribunal’s ruling in many children of offenders are vulnerable and is working favour of John Mason. [297882] closely with the Ministry of Justice and National Offender Management Service to meet their needs. Mr. Coaker: One teacher received threshold pay as a The Department for Children, Schools and Families result of the Employment Appeal Tribunal’s ruling in and the Ministry of Justice have just published (on 3 favour of John Mason. November 2009) a cross-government framework setting out recommended practice by local agencies and offender Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, management services in identifying and supporting these Schools and Families how many applicants applied for families. each UK post in the European Schools in each of the We have significantly expanded funding for parenting last 10 years. [297902] and family support and have just announced indicative local authority allocations for 2010-11 totalling £89 Mr. Coaker: The information requested is shown in million. Many of the projects delivered with this funding, the following table. such as family intervention projects, work with prisons and the probation service to support this group of Number of posts Number of applications 1 families. The Department also directly funds a range of advertised received organisations such as Action For Prisoners’ Families to 2000 11 265 deliver projects to support the families of offenders 2001 14 165 through the our third sector grant programmes. 2002 28 345 The Sure Start children’s centres practice guidance 2003 24 240 highlights families with a parent in prison or known to 2004 28 480 be engaged in criminal activity among those vulnerable 2005 20 270 families for whom additional support should be available. 2006 19 475 It includes a separate section with good practice examples 2007 22 160 on how services can be tailored to meet the needs of 2008 27 240 partners and families of prisoners. Together for Children, 2009 32 400 the Department’s delivery partner, have also produced a Total (2000-09) 225 3,040 support product “Working Effectively with Families in 1 Figures are based on the number of applicants recorded on tables who Sure Start Children’s Centres” which includes a checklist applied for posts in any given year. The Department only keeps applications for one year after each annual recruitment exercise so figures should therefore and links to resources to help centres working with be regarded as approximate. families of prisoners and is available online at: 109W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 110W

http://www.childrens-centres.org/Topics/ Mr. Coaker: The figures requested are given in the AllTfCSupportProducts.aspx#WorkingwithFamilies following table. Information on how many Sure Start children’s centres Number of pupils in Birmingham who achieved selected grades at have programmes in place to provide appropriate support GCSE or equivalent in each year since 1998 for families of those who are in prison is not collected 5 A*-C 5 A*-C including English centrally. Local authorities, working with their partners and mathematics in children’s trusts, are responsible for decisions on Number Percentage Number Percentage services to be delivered in children’s centres in response to local needs and demands. 1998 4,137 35.9 2,982 25.9 1999 4,435 38.1 3,335 28.6 GCSE 2000 4,672 40.8 3,584 31.3 2001 4,879 41.2 3,683 31.1 : To ask the Secretary of State for 2002 5,359 45.3 4,036 34.1 Children, Schools and Families (1) how many pupils 2003 5,963 49.4 4,217 35.0 obtaining five GCSEs at grades A* to C including 2004 6,218 51.2 4,448 36.6 English and mathematics also received an equivalent 2005 6,797 56.6 4,678 39.0 qualification worth four GCSEs in the latest period for 2006 7,336 58.8 5,090 40.8 which figures are available; [295280] 2007 7,813 61.8 5,266 41.6 (2) how many pupils obtaining five GCSEs at grades 2008 8,429 66.6 5,762 45.5 A* to C including English and mathematics also 2009 8,885 72.0 5,829 47.2 obtained an equivalent qualification worth two or Notes: more GCSEs in the latest period for which figures are 1. 1998 to 2004 data relate to 15-year-olds at the start of the school available. [295281] year. 2. 2005 to 2009 data relate to pupils at the end of key stage 4. 3. 2009 figures are provisional. Mr. Coaker: Provisional figures for 2009 show that of Source the 314,158 pupils who achieved five or more GCSEs at Achievement and Attainment Tables’ database. grades A* to C including English and mathematics (including equivalents), 33,867 of these pupils achieved Learning and Skills Improvement Service: Finance at least one individual equivalent qualification worth four GCSEs at grades A* to C. Of these, 5,351 would not have met the threshold without the equivalent Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for qualification. Children, Schools and Families how much funding his Department is providing to the Learning and Skills 98,437 pupils who achieved five or more GCSEs at Improvement Service in 2009-10; and what proportion grades A* to C including English and mathematics this constitutes of the total budget of the Learning and (including equivalents) obtained at least one individual Skills Improvement Service. [296879] equivalent qualification worth two or more GCSEs at grades A* to C. Of these, 9,889 would not have met the threshold without these equivalent qualifications. Mr. Coaker: In 2009-10 the Department for Business Innovation and Skills will receive funding from DCSF Notes: in respect of the Learning and Skills Improvement 1. Figures cover pupils at the end of Key Stage 4 in all schools. Service of £36.634 million, which represents 25 per 2. Qualifications counted as GCSEs for this answer include full cent. of the total LSIS income for that financial year. GCSEs, short course GCSEs, GCSE double awards, GCSEs in applied subjects and GCE AS levels that have been taken early. All other accredited qualifications that are approved for pre-16 Primary Education: Pupils use are counted as GCSE equivalent qualifications. GCSE: Birmingham Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how many primary Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for schools in each region had more than (a) 400, (b) 500, Children, Schools and Families how many school (c) 600 and (d) 700 pupils in the latest period for pupils in Birmingham achieved (a) five A* to C grades which figures are available. [298315] at GCSE or equivalent and (b) five A* to C grades at GCSE or equivalent including English and Ms Diana R. Johnson: The information requested is mathematics in each year since 1998. [296278] shown in the table.

Maintained primary schools: Number of schools By size1, 2, 3, January 2009, England Of which: Number of schools with more than: Total number of maintained primary schools 400 pupils 500 pupils 600 pupils 700 pupils

North East 896 90 19 4 0 North West 2,498 228 45 16 4 Yorkshire and the Humber 1,843 218 49 17 4 East Midlands 1,660 141 25 10 1 West Midlands 1,805 281 80 44 14 East of England 2,022 178 41 16 1 Inner London 691 209 44 22 11 111W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 112W

Maintained primary schools: Number of schools By size1, 2, 3, January 2009, England Of which: Number of schools with more than: Total number of maintained primary schools 400 pupils 500 pupils 600 pupils 700 pupils

Outer London 1,113 462 113 84 29 South East 2,631 333 68 28 5 South West 1,905 140 19 9 1 England 17,064 2,280 503 250 70 1 Based on headcount of pupils, excludes dual registrations. 2 Includes middle schools as deemed. 3 Schools are counted against each relevant column e.g. those in ‘more than 500’ are also in ‘more than 400’. Source: School Census.

Pupil Exclusions (2) pursuant to the answer of 16 October 2009, Official Report, columns 1104-05W, on pupil exclusions: disadvantaged, what the rate of permanent exclusion from (a) primary, (b) secondary and (c) Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for special schools was in each income deprivation Children, Schools and Families (1) how many and what affecting children index decile of deprivation in the proportion of pupils have been given (a) fixed period latest year for which figures are available. [296289] and (b) permanent exclusions from schools in each decile of deprivation in the latest period for which Mr. Coaker: The available information is shown in figures are available; [296260] the table.

Primary, secondary and special schools1, 2, 3, number and proportion of pupil enrolments with fixed period or permanent exclusions by level of deprivation of school4, 5, England, 2007/08 (estimates)6 One or more fixed period exclusions Permanent exclusions6 Rate of permanent exclusion6, 8 Level of deprivation of Percentage of Percentage of school based on Number of pupil the school Number of pupil the school Primary Secondary IDACI5 enrolments4 population7 enrolments4 population8 schools1 schools1, 2 Special schools3

0-10% most 21,070 2.90 900 0.12 0.04 0.29 0.23 deprived 10-20% 21,070 3.08 870 0.13 0.04 0.28 0.08 20-30% 24,980 3.24 1,110 0.14 0.03 0.28 0.16 30-40% 21,410 2.88 830 0.11 0.03 0.22 0.16 40-50% 24,760 3.06 970 0.12 0.02 0.23 0.15 50-60% 18,690 2.57 750 0.10 0.02 0.21 0.14 60-70% 21,100 2.70 700 0.09 0.02 0.16 0.22 70-80% 19,090 2.52 700 0.09 0.01 0.18 0.33 80-90% 17,080 2.28 630 0.08 0.01 0.16 0.23 90-100% least 15,640 2.17 670 0.09 0.01 0.17 0.19 deprived Total for all 204,890 2.74 8,130 0.11 0.02 0.21 0.19 schools 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. 2 Includes city technology colleges and academies (including all-through academies). 3 Includes maintained and non-maintained special schools. Excludes general hospital schools. 4 Pupils may be counted more than once if they were registered at more than one school or moved schools during the year. 5 2007 Income Deprivation Affecting Children Index at Super Output Area level based on the location of the school. 6 Figures relating to permanent exclusions are estimates based on incomplete pupil-level data. 7 The number of pupil enrolments with one or more fixed period exclusions as a percentage of the number (headcount) of pupils (excluding dually registered pupils), in each IDACI band, in January 2008. 8 The number of pupil enrolments with a permanent exclusion as a percentage of the number (headcount) of pupils (excluding dually registered pupils), in each IDACI band, by school type, in January 2008. Note: Figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. Source: School Census.

Pupils: Bullying behaviour, respect for others and to prevent all forms of bullying among pupils. Schools’ legal duties also include promoting community cohesion which is about building Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for an appreciation of diversity, developing shared values Children, Schools and Families what steps he is taking and fostering good relations between different groups to prevent bullying and intimidation of Jewish children of pupils. Ofsted has inspected schools against this duty in schools; and if he will make a statement. [298343] since September 2008. Mr. Coaker: The DCSF has made it clear to schools In March 2006 we published specialist guidance on that all forms of bullying, including those motivated by bullying around race, religion and culture which focused prejudice, should not be tolerated. Schools have the on preventing and tackling racist and religious bullying legal duty to put measures in place to promote good in schools and included specific material on bullying 113W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 114W related to anti-Semitism. We are funding the Anti-Bullying http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000860/ Alliance and the National Strategies to ensure the guidance index.shtml is effectively embedded in local authorities and schools. Data on fixed period exclusions was collected for the first time in 2003/04; in 2005/06 it was collected for Pupils: Special Educational Needs secondary schools only. The available information relating to the number of Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for fixed period exclusions (not the number of pupils) by Children, Schools and Families (1) how many pupils SEN status between 2003/04 and 2006/07 is published with special educational needs have been given (a) in table 8 of the Statistical First Release published at: fixed-period and (b) permanent exclusions in each http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000793/ year since 1997; [296257] index.shtml (2) how many and what proportion of pupils (a) The number of fixed period exclusions by SEN status eligible for free school meals, (b) who speak English as for 2007/08 is available in table 8a of the Statistical First an additional language and (c) who have special Release published at: educational needs were given (i) fixed-period and (ii) http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000860/ permanent exclusions from schools in the latest period index.shtml for which figures are available. [296259] A pupil’s SEN status can change between periods of exclusion; data relating to the SEN status of excluded Mr. Coaker: Data on the special educational needs pupil enrolments, based on their SEN status at the time status of excluded pupils is collected at the time of of their most recent fixed period or permanent exclusion, exclusion. Information relating to the number of permanent has been determined for the first time for 2007/08. The exclusions by SEN status since 1997 is published in available information on pupil enrolments is shown in table 7 of the Statistical First Release published at: the following table.

Primary, secondary and special schools1,2,3 number and percentage of pupil enrolments receiving one or more fixed period exclusions or a permanent exclusion by pupil characteristics4 England, 2007/08 (estimates)5 One or more fixed period exclusions Permanent exclusion5 Number of pupil Percentage of applicable Number of pupil Percentage of applicable enrolments4 school population6 enrolments4 school population6

Eligible for free school meals7 62,090 5.66 3,050 0.28 Speak English as an additional language8 18,570 2.25 640 0.08 Have special educational needs9 114,260 7.42 5,780 0.38 All pupils 204,890 2.74 8,130 0.11 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. 2 Includes city technology colleges and academies (including all-through academies). 3 Includes maintained and non-maintained special schools. Excludes general hospital schools. 4 Pupils may be counted more than once if they were registered at more than one school or changed schools during the year. 5 Figures relating to permanent exclusions are estimates based on incomplete pupil-level data. 6 The number of pupil enrolments who received exclusions expressed as a percentage of the number (headcount) of all pupils (excluding dually registered pupils) by pupil characteristic, in January 2008. 7 Free school meal eligibility as at the time of the January 2008 School Census. 8 Includes only pupils of compulsory school age and above. 9 Pupils’ SEN status at the time of their most recent fixed period or permanent exclusion. Includes pupils whose status is School Action, School Action Plus and those who have statements of special educational needs. Note: Figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. Source: School Census

Schools The decision-making process for independent schools is dealt with by the Department. The whole registration Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for process will take a minimum of three months, but can Children, Schools and Families what the average time take longer, depending on the applicant’s readiness to taken for a school to receive an official registration meet the regulatory standards. number from his Department was in the latest period Once the Department is satisfied the standards are for which figures are available. [298317] met an application for an official registration number may take up to 10 working days which is then notified Ms Diana R. Johnson: A new maintained school’s directly to the proprietor. registration number is normally issued from the Department within five working days of it being notified by the Decision Maker, either the local authority or the schools Schools: Astrophysics adjudicator, that the required statutory process has been followed and a decision has been made to approve Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for the statutory proposals for the establishment of the new Children, Schools and Families how much of the school. Government’s expenditure from its budgets allocated Once notified of its registration number, it is for the to space has been spent on space education in (a) Decision Maker to make sure these details are passed primary and (b) secondary schools in each of the last on to the relevant person at the new school. 10 years. [297326] 115W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 116W

Mr. Coaker [holding answer 2 November 2009]: The 1,115 of these schools were Catholic schools which Department does not hold the information requested. represents 69 per cent. of all Catholic primary schools. Schools: Standards At Key Stage 4 (KS4) the expected CVA score is 1,000, therefore any school with a lower confidence bound greater than 1,000 could be described as having a John Battle: To ask the Secretary of State for high value added score. There were 912 such schools2 in Children, Schools and Families what proportion of (a) 2008, the latest period for which figures are available schools and (b) Catholic schools had (i) value-added (representing 29 per cent. of all secondary schools). 129 scores and (ii) points scores above the national average of these schools were Catholic schools which represents at each level of assessment in the latest period for 34 per cent. of all Catholic secondary schools. which figures are available. [293938] The average KS4 point score is also published for Mr. Coaker: The performance of all schools is published every school. In 2008 the national average point score annually in the Achievement and Attainment Tables. was 390.2. There were 1,603 schools (51 per cent. of all This is available at: secondary schools) with average point scores above this http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/performancetables/ figure. 234 of these schools were Catholic schools which represents 62 per cent. of all Catholic secondary schools. This publication includes the contextual value added 1 (CVA)score for every school, together with a confidence All KS2 figures are based on 14,768 maintained mainstream interval around that score. primary schools of which 1,616 are Catholic schools. 2 All KS4 figures are based on 3,159 maintained mainstream At Key Stage 2 (KS2) the expected CVA score is 100, secondary schools of which 378 are Catholic schools. therefore any school with a lower confidence bound greater than 100 could be described as having a high value added score. There were 3,966 such schools1 in Secondary Education: Pupils 2008, the latest period for which figures are available (representing 27 per cent. of all primary schools). 498 Michael Gove: To ask the Secretary of State for of these schools were Catholic schools which represents Children, Schools and Families how many secondary 31 per cent. of all Catholic primary schools. schools in each region had more than (a) 1,000 and The average KS2 point score is also published for (b) 2,000 pupils in the latest period for which figures every school. In 2008 the national average point score are available. [298314] was 27.9. There were 8,357 schools (57 per cent. of all primary Ms Diana R. Johnson: The information requested is schools) with average point scores above this figure. shown in the table.

State funded secondary schools: Number of schools by Size1, 2, 3, 4, January 2009, England Of which: Total number of state funded Number of schools with more Number of schools with more secondary schools than 1,000 pupils than 2,000 pupils

North East 203 65 2 North West 464 179 0 Yorkshire and the Humber 319 155 4 East Midlands 303 142 4 West Midlands 401 146 1 East of England 421 180 1 Inner London 148 58 0 Outer London 278 169 4 South East 498 243 7 South West 326 157 3 England 3,361 1,494 26 1 Based on headcount of pupils, excludes dual registrations. 2 Includes middle schools as deemed. 3 Includes CTCs and academies (including all through academies). 4 Schools are counted against each relevant column e.g. those in ‘more than 2,000’ are also in ‘more than 1,000’.

Teachers: Derbyshire Trust Schools

Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Galloway: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families how much his Children, Schools and Families how many Trust Department has spent on additional teachers in (a) schools have been created since the entry into force of Derbyshire and (b) North East Derbyshire the Education and Inspections Act 2006; and how constituency since 1997. [296070] many such schools have (a) more than one elected parent governor and (b) a Parents’ Council. [297865] Mr. Coaker: The Department does not hold the information requested. It is a matter for each local Mr. Coaker: To date 243 Trust schools (foundation authority and its schools to determine locally. schools with a foundation) that the Department has 117W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 118W been advised of, have been established or acquired their expenditure on identifying trust under the Education and Inspections Act 2006. and treating those with coeliac disease is not collected The Department does not hold records of the number centrally. of parent governors. Any Trust school with a foundation majority—where the Trust appoints the majority of Dental Services governors to the Governing Body—must set up a Parent Council. Our records show that 15 schools have acquired Ben Chapman: To ask the Secretary of State for this model so far. Health (1) what assistance and advice his Department provides to NHS dentistry practices which have United Learning Trust difficulty meeting demand for their services; [297955] Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) what steps his Department is taking to ensure Children, Schools and Families if he will place in the that there is sufficient provision of NHS dentistry in Library copies of each contract or agreement made rural areas. [297956] between his Department and united learning trusts. [296538] Ann Keen: Dental practices contract with their local primary care trusts (PCTs) to deliver an agreed level of Mr. Coaker [holding answer 29 October 2009]: Copies annual dental service. It is for each PCT to ensure that it of all contracts and agreements with the United Learning contracts with sufficient practices at sufficient levels of Trust are on the Department’s website at: service to meet local need for national health service http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/foischeme/ dental care. Dentists who are able and willing to do more NHS work can approach their local PCT, or bid for extra work where local PCTs are inviting tenders. HEALTH Access to NHS dental care is growing steadily, with 721,000 more patients seen in the 24 months ending Cancer: Drugs June 2009 than in the 24 months ending June 2008. But we recognise there is further to go. The NHS has Mark Simmonds: To ask the Secretary of State for committed itself to ensuring that, by March 2011, all Health what discussions his Department has had with those who actively seek NHS dental care can access it. Birmingham East and North Primary Care Trust since We have put in place the Dental Access Programme to 1 January 2009 on the availability of cancer medicines support the NHS in achieving this commitment. from the NHS; and if he will make a statement. [297713] Departmental Rail Travel Mr. Mike O’Brien: None. National health service organisations are statutorily Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State required to make funding available for treatments for Health how much his Department spent on first recommended by the National Institute for Clinical class rail travel for officials in (a) 2004-05 and (b) Excellence’s (NICE) technology appraisal guidance within 2005-06. [298394] three months of final guidance unless the funding direction has not been amended or waived. Where NICE guidance Phil Hope: The Department has spent the following does not exist for a treatment, NHS patients have a on first-class rail travel. right to expect local funding decisions to be made rationally on the basis of the available evidence. £ 2004-05 5,377,271.00 Coeliac Disease 2005-06 4,101,667.18 Mr. Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of It should be noted that the above figures represent State for Health what estimate he has made of the travel booked through the central booking system which number of people diagnosed with coeliac disease; what constitutes the vast majority of how travel is booked screening takes place to identify those with the disease; and paid for. how much the NHS spent on (a) identifying and (b) treating those with coeliac disease in the latest period Departmental Telephone Services for which figures are available; and if he will make a statement. [298150] Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State Ann Keen: We have made no estimate of the number for Health (a) how many and (b) what proportion of of people diagnosed with coeliac disease. telephone calls made to lines operated by (i) his The United Kingdom National Screening Committee, Department and (ii) the NHS were classified as prank which advises Ministers and the national health service calls in the latest period for which figures are available. on screening policy and its implementation, has [298208] recommended that whole-population screening for coeliac disease should not be offered. Guidelines published by Phil Hope: The Department does not collect information the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence on the number of prank calls to Department of Health recommend that serological testing is offered, or that operated phone lines in the requested format. clinicians consider offering serological testing, to children Records on such calls to the Department’s and adults presenting with specific signs, symptoms or communications directorate phone lines are maintained existing conditions as defined in the guidance. but those figures also include wrong numbers, people 119W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 120W who put the phone down before speaking to an operator pension credit and (b) with no upper capital limit; and and people who have misjudged the services offered by whether any payment is to be made to an individual in the line they called. the lower two quintiles who is in receipt of care and The Department’s communications directorate phone support. [298210] lines overall are within the industry average of around 10 per cent. calls of this type. Phil Hope: The Government are currently consulting on proposals to reform the care and support system for Information on national health service or any other adults in England. As part of that consultation, we are telephone services that may be run on behalf of the considering the case for bringing together elements of Department are not held centrally and cannot be provided some disability benefits, such as attendance allowance, except at disproportionate cost. with social care funding, to create a new care and Direct Payments support system to provide for the needs of older and disabled people. The assumptions used in the economic Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State modelling were published by the Personal Social Services for Health (1) how many people received payments Research Unit in July 2009 at under the direct payment scheme in each year since www.pssru.ac.uk/pdf/dp2644.pdf 2000; and how much was paid out in each such year; No decisions have yet been made around how this [298326] should be achieved in practice. (2) how much his Department spent on the direct payments scheme in each year since 2000. [298327] Drugs: Prisons

Phil Hope: Financial data on the total running cost of John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for the direct payments scheme is not collected centrally by Health what assessment has been made of the merits of the Department. quality assurance for drug treatment services in prisons However, the NHS Information Centre for health provided through the National Treatment Agency for and social care collects and publishes information on Substance Misuse. [297368] the number of adults receiving direct payments provided by Councils with Adult Social Services Responsibilities Phil Hope: In April 2008, the National Treatment (CASSRs) and the gross current expenditure on these Agency for Substance Misuse (NTA) was given direct payments. responsibility for the implementation of the Integrated Drug Treatment System (IDTS) in prisons. The NTA The following table shows the number of adults (aged put in place a range of performance and quality assurance 18 and over) in receipt of direct payments and the total arrangements to support the delivery of the programme. gross current expenditure by CASSRs in England on direct payments during the year from 2000-01 to 2008-09. At a local level, all prison partnerships implementing IDTS in prisons are required to submit Annual Treatment Number of adults (aged 18 and over) in receipt of direct payments and Plans to their regional NTA team setting out key priorities, the total gross current expenditure in England on direct payments during the year from 2000-01 to 2008-09 objectives, actions and milestones for the delivery of Rounded numbers effective treatment, including a financial budget for the year. Progress against these plans is reviewed quarterly. Gross expenditure on 1 April to Clients in receipt of direct payments NTA are responsible for the IDTS prison treatment 31 March: direct payments (£000) data, which is reported through the National Drug 2000-01 5,000 49,800 Treatment Monitoring System (NDTMS) and includes data from the Drug Interventions Record. The collection 2001-02 6,300 57,700 of IDTS prison treatment data began in April 2009 and 2002-03 9,600 84,500 from April 2010 will be part of PSA 25 activity data, 2003-04 17,300 126,300 whereby all primary care trusts have to ensure the 1 2004-05 24,500 192,300 provision of effective treatment as one of the Tier 2 2005-06 37,400 274,200 Vital Signs indicators within the 2009-10 NHS Operating 2006-07 48,500 356,700 Framework. 2007-08 66,800 452,500 2 New Government guidance, covering issues around 2008-09 86,100 605,100 quality assurance for prisons commissioners, service 1 Data on the number of people receiving community based services from 2004-05 is not comparable to previous years. In 2004-05 restated providers and practitioners on continuity of care for guidance was issued to exclude people receiving services from grant people on release from prison (“Drug Misusing Offenders: funded organisations who had not had a community care assessment. Ensuring the continuity-of-care between prisons and 2 Data for 2008-09 is provisional. community (June 09)”) and on the management of dual Source: diagnosis in prisons (“A Guide for the Management of RAP P2f and PSS Ex1 Dual Diagnosis for Prisons (March 2009)”) have also Disabled: Social Services recently been published. The implementation of these guidance documents, and assuring quality, will also be Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State led by the NTA at a local level. for Health pursuant to the proposals in the Social Care Green Paper on disability benefits, whether the removal Elderly: Ethnic Groups of attendance allowance is to operate beyond the top three wealth quintiles after 2014; whether payment to Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State those in the lower two wealth quintiles is to be based on for Health pursuant to the Answer to Question 290279, a means test (a) equivalent to the means test for which councils (a) have and (b) have not made use of 121W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 122W the audit tool for developing services for minority Herbal Medicine ethnic older people in each year. [298303] Mr. Fallon: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Phil Hope: The Audit Tool was produced as practice what timetable he has set for statutory registration of guidance for all councils with social services responsibilities. professional herbalists; and if he will make a statement. It was intended for use as a local resource and there has [298157] been no central monitoring as to which councils have or have not made use of it. Ann Keen: The Department is currently undertaking a consultation exercise on whether acupuncture, herbal Health Education medicine and traditional Chinese medicine practitioners should be regulated and if so how. Once the consultation period has ended, and the responses have been analysed, Norman Lamb: To ask the Secretary of State for a decision on the way forward will then be made. Health if his Department will publish the evaluation it made of the effectiveness of each health promotion Home Care Services campaign that it (a) ran itself and (b) it commissioned from other organisations in (i) 2005-06, (ii) 2006-07, Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State (iii) 2007-08 and (iv) 2008-09. [297863] for Health how many people received home help funded from the public purse during the sample week Phil Hope: The Department publishes summaries of used for his Department’s survey on home care services research relating to health promotion campaigns it runs in September 2009. [298376] or commissions. These can be found on the Department’s website at: Phil Hope: We are informed by the NHS Information Centre for health and social care that it no longer www.dh.gov.uk/en/FreedomOfInformation/ collects data on the number of people receiving home Freedomofinformationpublicationschemefeedback/ Classesofinformation/Campaignresearch/index.htm help funded by councils with adult social services responsibilities (CASSRs) during a sample week in categorised by issue. The summaries are currently published September. The result of a new data collection on the on an annual basis. Summaries for July 2007-July 2008 home care services is expected to be published by the will be published by the end of 2009. Thereafter the Information Centre in early 2010. summaries will be published on a six monthly basis. The most recent data available shows that, during the survey week in September 2008, 340,600 service users Health Services: Social Services received home care funded by CASSRs in England. Hospitals: Ashford Kent Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State for Health on what dates the Ministerial Group on Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Integration of Health and Social Care Services has met Health what his plans are for the future of the King’s since its creation. [298285] Avenue, Ashford site as an NHS facility. [297607] Phil Hope: The ministerial group on integration of Mr. Mike O’Brien: The provision and development Health and Social Care Services has met three times of local health services and facilities are the responsibility since its creation on 10 March 2009, 15 June 2009 and of the local national health service. The future of the 20 October 2009. King’s Avenue, Ashford site is therefore a matter for Eastern and Coastal Kent Primary Care Trust. Health: Screening Hospitals: Parking

Sandra Gidley: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the answer of 21 July 2009, Official Health what assessment he has made of the likely effect Report, column 334W, on cardiovascular system: on (a) Barnet and Chase Farm Hospitals NHS Trust screening, when his Department intends to begin and (b) the Royal Free Hospital of the proposed collecting information through the national minimum abolition of car parking charges; and if he will make a data set on NHS health checks; what information will statement. [296644] be included for collection in the national minimum data set; which organisation will be responsible for Mr. Mike O’Brien: National health service organisations administering it; whether he intends the information to provide car parking to patients and visitors based on be published; and if he will make a statement. [297377] their local plans, needs and circumstances. The details and effects of implementing free car parking for in-patients will vary between different NHS organisations. It is Ann Keen: Primary care trusts are beginning phased therefore for each local NHS organisation to assess the implementation of their NHS Health Check programme effect of the abolition of car parking charges. and there is strong support for the development of a national data set. We are currently working with the Influenza: Vaccination Information Standards Board for Health and Social Care to develop a National Data Set for the NHS Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Health Check programme. It is too early to give details what steps his Department is taking to increase the about exactly what information will be collected, who number of people who have been inoculated against will be responsible for administering it or if the information influenza and pneumococcal disease; and if he will will be published. make a statement. [298762] 123W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 124W

Gillian Merron: The H1N1 (swine flu) vaccination indicator to monitor and increase uptake of the programme which started in October is supported by a pneumococcal vaccine in the childhood immunisation comprehensive programme of communications to the programme. general public and a major, leadership-driven campaign to encourage national health service and social care Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Health staff to take up the vaccine. how many people have been inoculated against This year’s seasonal flu campaign is being delivered influenza in (a) Ribble Valley constituency, (b) in a highly targeted way to the usual at-risk groups in Lancashire and (c) England in each of the last five order to minimise confusion, particularly where there years. [298763] are differences from the swine flu priority groups (for example, over-65s who are otherwise healthy). The message Gillian Merron: Data on the number of people who “Don’t underestimate seasonal flu” features in leaflets, have received seasonal influenza vaccine are available surgery posters and pharmacy bags, on the basis that nationally and at the strategic health authority (SHA) people in the seasonal flu at-risk groups are often in and the primary care trust (PCT) levels. No data are contact with primary care. available for individual parliamentary constituencies. Pneumococcal vaccines are offered to older people Data for the years 2005-06 to 2008-09 are given in the and to babies and infants. The programme for older following table for the PCTs that have included the people is supported by a leaflet entitled “Age 65 or Ribble Valley constituency, and for Lancashire and Over? Make sure you get your pneumo” that is available England. from surgeries. The data are presented for (i) patients over 65 years For children, pneumococcal vaccine is offered as part of age (table 1) and (ii) for patients under 65 years of of the routine childhood immunisation programme. age in clinical at risk groups (table 2), the total number This is supported by a range of information resources. of eligible people that received vaccine and the percentage As part of the Operating Framework for the NHS in uptake of vaccine by those eligible by the end of the England, the Department has adopted a Vital Signs influenza season in each year.

Table 1: Vaccination percentage uptake among the 65 years of age and over 65 years and over Survey year PCT name Number vaccinated Vaccine uptake (percentage)

2005-06 West Lancashire PCT 14,123 77.8 Cumbria and Lancashire Strategic HA 256,393 75.5 England total 6,122,744 75.3

2006-07 Central Lancashire PCT 54,882 74.9 East Lancashire PCT 41,585 73.9 North Lancashire PCT 51,695 76.4 Total of above PCTs 148,162 75.1 England total 5,779,145 73.9

2007-08 Central Lancashire PCT 53,990 75.1 East Lancashire PCT 43,296 72.4 North Lancashire PCT 52,028 76 Total of above PCTs 149,314 74.6 England total 5,934,370.0 73.5

2008-09 Central Lancashire PCT 55,263 75 East Lancashire PCT 44,565 73.4 North Lancashire PCT 52,911 76.4 Total of above PCTs 152,739 75.0 England total 6,130,532 74

Table 2: Vaccination percentage uptake among the under 65 years of age in clinical risk Under 65 years and at risk1 Survey year PCT name Number vaccinated Vaccine uptake (percentage)

2005-06 West Lancashire PCT 6,140 66.9 Cumbria and Lancashire Strategic HA 112,922 59.2 England total 1,443,893 48.0

2006-07 Central Lancashire PCT 21,454 45.1 East Lancashire PCT 16,783 45.8 North Lancashire PCT 13,698 45.9 125W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 126W

Table 2: Vaccination percentage uptake among the under 65 years of age in clinical risk Under 65 years and at risk1 Survey year PCT name Number vaccinated Vaccine uptake (percentage)

Total of above PCTs 51,935 45.5 England total 1,770,840 42.1

2007-08 Central Lancashire PCT 20,424 47.4 East Lancashire PCT 17,908 51.9 North Lancashire PCT 15,317 48.6 Total of above PCTs 53,649 49.2 England total 1,977,509 45.3

2008-09 Central Lancashire PCT 22,008 52.8 East Lancashire PCT 19,025 52.9 North Lancashire PCT 16,079 50.9 Total of above PCTs 57,112 52.3 England total 92,216 52.2 1 Data for individuals aged under 65 years and in a risk group has only been collated since the 2005-06 season. Source: Influenza Immunisation Uptake Monitoring Programme HPA/DH, ImmForm reporting website.

Uptake data for this year’s seasonal and swine flu Mr. Gale: To ask the Secretary of State for Health vaccination programmes are not yet available. what provision has been made for the (a) respiratory care and (b) cardiac screening of muscular dystrophy Mental Health Services patients living within the area covered by the South East and Coastal Regional Health Authority; and how Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for Health much funding for (i) 2009-10 and (ii) each of the previous what assessment he has made of the effect on (a) five years was allocated to these services. [296728] patient safety and (b) waiting times of proposals to differentiate standards of proficiency for counselling Ann Keen: It is the responsibility of health professionals and psychotherapy; and if he will make a statement. to use their clinical judgment, working with patients [298363] and their families, to decide on the most appropriate health care for those living with muscular dystrophy Ann Keen: The Government have not yet received (MD). Local health bodies have the responsibility to proposals for the regulation of psychotherapists and commission appropriate levels of health care to meet counsellors from the Health Professions Council (HPC). the needs of all their patients, including those with MD. The Government will give careful consideration to the Funding is not allocated specifically for MD. HPC’s recommendations, including impact assessments, However, the Department is aware of variations in once these have been presented to the Secretary of service provision for those living with muscular dystrophy. State. We have therefore asked the national commissioning team to work with the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign Mental Health Services: Waiting Lists to run a workshop on best practice commissioning.

Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Gale: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Health how many people aged (a) under 18 years and with what frequency a muscular dystrophy patient (b) 18 years or over are on waiting lists to receive living within the area covered by the South East and treatment for a mental health problem in the Milton Coastal Regional Health Authority should receive Keynes area. [297811] specialist physiotherapy. [296729]

Phil Hope: The information requested is not collected Ann Keen: There is no recommended level of centrally. physiotherapy services—patients living with muscular dystrophy will have differing needs, and services should Muscular Dystrophy: South East be provided based on an individual assessment of a patient’s needs. Mr. Gale: To ask the Secretary of State for Health However, the Department is aware of variations in how many care advisers are available for muscular service provision for those living with muscular dystrophy. dystrophy patients within the area covered by the South We have therefore asked the national commissioning East and Coastal Regional Health Authority. [296723] team to work with the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign to run a workshop on best practice commissioning. Ann Keen: The information requested is not collected National Assistance Act 1948 centrally. However, the Department is aware of variations in service provision for those living with muscular dystrophy. Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State We have therefore asked the National Commissioning for Health how many adults have received support team to work with the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign under section 21 of the National Assistance Act 1948 to run a workshop on best practice commissioning. in each year since 1997. [298302] 127W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 128W

Phil Hope: Section 21 of the National Assistance Act Table 1: Total1 number of clients aged 18 and over in receipt of local 1948 empowers local authorities to support people in authority funded residential or nursing care as at 31 March, England residential and nursing care. Data on the number of Rounded number adults—aged 18 and over—in local authority supported Total of all supported residents, registered residential and nursing care is collected and England published by the NHS Information Centre for health 2002 264,800 and social care via the Supported Residents (SRI) return. 20032 284,100 Table 1 shows the numbers of adults—aged 18 and 20042, 3 278,000 over—in local authority funded residential and nursing 20052, 3 266,200 care, including numbers in adult placements/Shared Notes: Lives, as at 31 March for the years 1997 to 2005 in 1 Includes people in voluntary and private registered residential, general and mental health nursing homes, adults in un-staffed homes England. and adult placements/Shared Lives. Table1:Total1 number of clients aged 18 and over in receipt of local 2 Includes clients formerly in receipt of preserved rights. authority funded residential or nursing care as at 31 March, England 3 Includes Boyd loophole residents. Rounded number Source: SRI Return, table S1. Total of all supported residents, England From 2006, the numbers in adult placements/Shared Lives were collected separately. Table 2 shows the numbers 1997 242,100 of adults—aged 18 and over—in local authority funded 1998 255,500 residential and nursing care and numbers in adult 1999 260,700 placements/Shared Lives, as at 31 March for the years 2000 265,400 2006 to 2008 in England. Information for 2009 is expected 2001 261,800 to be published in early 2010.

Table2:Total1 number of clients aged 18 and over in receipt of local authority funded residential or nursing care as at 31 March, England Rounded number Total of all supported residents in Total of all supported residents1 registered2 accommodation Adult Placements/Shared lives

20063, 4 259,200 256,900 2,200 20073, 4 250,200 247,300 2,900 20083, 4 239,100 236,100 2,900 Notes: 1 Includes people in voluntary and private registered residential, general and mental health nursing homes, adults in un-staffed homes and adult placements/Shared Lives. 2 Registered accommodation excludes adult placements/Shared Lives. These data were collected separately from 2006 onwards. 3 Includes clients formerly in receipt of preserved rights. 4 Includes Boyd loophole residents. Source: SRI Return, table S1.

Nutrition produced on the understanding that the Government would not have any editorial control over the content. Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State When a response to the report’s recommendations is for Health (1) pursuant to the answer of 27 October finalised, a copy of the report, as drafted by the chair of 2009, Official Report, column 260W, on care homes: the board, together with the Government’s response, food, in what ways Ministers are considering the will be placed in the Library. Nutrition Action Plan Delivery Board’s report; Organs: Donors whether his Department is to exercise any editorial control over the content of the report as it is to be published; and if he will make a statement; [297973] Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will place in the Library a copy of his (2) pursuant to the answer of 27 October 2009, response to the review of allocation of organs to Official Report, column 268W, on nutrition, in what non-UK EU residents conducted by Elizabeth Buggins. ways Ministers are considering the Nutrition Action Plan Delivery Board’s report; and if he will make a [298289] statement. [298290] Ann Keen: The Department issued a press release on 31 July 2009 setting out the immediate steps it would Phil Hope: The Nutrition Action Plan Delivery Board’s take to implement the recommendations in Elizabeth report contains 21 recommendations, covering various Buggins’ report. A copy of the press release has been aspects of nutrition, some aimed at Government and placed in the Library. some at organisations outside Government. In order to prepare a response to these recommendations, it has Social Services been necessary to consult with the relevant policy interests, within Government and outside organisations. Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State The report was written by the chair of the Nutrition for Health when he plans to publish the social care Action Plan Delivery Board, in collaboration with the workforce action plan announced in the Social Care board membership. It is an independent report and was Green Paper. [298284] 129W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 130W

Phil Hope: “Working to Put People First: The Adult Swine Flu Social Care Workforce Strategy in England”, was launched in April 2009. The strategy has been jointly produced Mr. Greg Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for between the Department and its key sector partners Health what advice he has given to NHS trusts on through the Adult Social Care Workforce Strategy Board. maintaining sufficient capacity to deal with swine The Strategy sets out the intention to ‘commission a influenza cases; whether any such advice is mandatory renewed sector workforce action plan from our delivery or advisory; and if he will make a statement. [298248] partners to take account of Department of Health workforce policy priorities’. Gillian Merron: We continue to base our planning The Department is currently working closely with work with the national health service for the H1N1 our key partners in the social care sector to develop an pandemic on independent expert advice. The latest action plan for the adult social care workforce of the assumptions that we published on 22 October assume future. that, over this pandemic wave, up to a further 35,000 The Department will aim to publish this plan later people who become ill with H1N1 may require this year. hospitalisation. This would be above normal winter levels of flu activity and all NHS organisations have Mr. Stephen O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State been planning to handle this if necessary, for both adult for Health whether the (a) assessment and (b) funding and paediatric services. proposals in the Social Care Green Paper are based On 22 October, the National Director of NHS Flu solely on the level of need. [298374] Resilience wrote to NHS trusts to inform them of the revised assumptions and reiterate the need to maintain Phil Hope: In developing the Green Paper, the services for all patients over the winter period. A copy Department asked the Personal Social Services Research of the letter has been placed in the Library. Unit (PSSRU) to forecast the likely levels of need for In April this year the Department published guidance care and support until 2026. The methodology used to on “Managing Demand and Capacity in Health Care do this was published by PSSRU in July 2009 at: organisations (Surge)”. The document gives guidance www.pssru.ac.uk/pdf/dp2644.pdf on measures the NHS can take to handle the pressures The funding options look at different ways to bring it will face, including in providing paediatric care during money into the system to meet the forecasted levels of a pandemic. A copy of the guidance has already been need. The different funding options consider both needs placed in the Library. and means. The options under consideration are: To further support local planning, on 10 September a Pay for yourself—where all individuals are responsible for strategy for critical care services entitled, “Critical care meeting their own care costs. This was ruled out because it would strategy: managing the H1N1 flu pandemic (September leave many people without the care and support they need; 2009)”, was published that in part sets out how the Partnership—where everyone who qualified for care and support NHS would work to substantially increase availability would be entitled to have a set proportion, for example a quarter of paediatric intensive care beds should this be required or a third of their costs paid for by the state. People who were less at the peak of the pandemic. A copy has already been well off would have more care paid for, while the least well off people would continue to get all their care free; placed in the Library. Insurance—under which everyone would be entitled to have a The local NHS will take steps locally to manage share of their costs of their care and support met by the state but demand from swine influenza following guidance and would go further to help people cover the additional costs of their advice, as they do with all other pressures at other times. care and support through insurance if they wanted to; Comprehensive—where everyone over retirement age who had West Hertfordshire Hospitals NHS Trust the resources to do so would be required to pay into a state insurance scheme. Then everyone whose needs meant they qualified for care and support would get all of their basic care and support Anne Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Health free when they needed it. It would be possible to vary how much how many finished consultant episodes there were (a) people had to pay according to how much they could afford. The in total and (b) in each speciality at West Hertfordshire size of people’s contribution could be set according to what Hospitals NHS Trust in each of the last five years. savings or assets they had so that the system was affordable for people who were less well off; and [297527] Tax funded—where people would get all of their basic care free and would pay throughout their lives through tax. This was ruled Mr. Mike O’Brien: The information requested is provided out because it places a heavy burden on people of working age. in the following table.

Number of finished consultant episodes in West Hertfordshire Hospitals NHS Trust by main specialty, 2004-05 to 2008-09 Numbers Main specialty description 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Total 91,662 89,579 86,439 84,831 87,469 Accident and Emergency (A&E) 3,334 4,800 4,674 4,375 2,847 Allied Health Professional Episode 000*0 Anaesthetics 442 506 511 509 676 Cardiology 3,308 3,691 3,889 4,672 4,374 Clinical Haematology 2,583 1,928 2,228 2,384 2,244 Clinical Oncology (previously Radiotherapy) 4,768 820 530 504 422 Critical Care Medicine 000034 131W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 132W

Number of finished consultant episodes in West Hertfordshire Hospitals NHS Trust by main specialty, 2004-05 to 2008-09 Numbers Main specialty description 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Dermatology 551 252 27 26 11 Ear, Nose and Throat (ENT) 1,090 1,236 1,264 1,247 1,366 Endocrinology 200j 129 95 309 391 Gastroenterology 5,767 5,872 6,946 6,518 8,564 General Medicine 8,914 9,313 9,207 4,740 4,366 General Surgery 9,900 9,697 9,829 9,454 9,357 Genitourinary Medicine *0000 Geriatric Medicine 7,501 7,313 6,197 8,810 8,080 Gynaecology 4,487 4,379 4,547 4,110 3,789 Immunopathology 112 138 127 126 133 Learning Disability (previously Mental Health) *0000 Medical Oncology 748 292 69 108 87 Midwife episode 0 0 148 95 1,426 Nephrology 46 20 * * 9 Neurology 17 17 31 35 9 Notknown *0*00 Obstetrics 8,794 8,619 8,613 9,959 9,682 Ophthalmology 1,841 2,074 2,037 2,353 2,563 Oral Surgery 706 613 602 675 2,110 Paediatrics 4,998 5,430 7,112 8,378 9,008 Palliative Medicine 331 0 0 * 0 Plastic Surgery 7,712 8,018 3,899 0 0 Respiratory Medicine (Thoracic Medicine) 1,225 1,714 1,727 2,786 2,773 Rheumatology 502 816 852 590 642 Trauma and Orthopaedics 7,246 7,390 7,156 7,888 8,266 Urology 4,532 4,502 4,109 4,167 4,240 Notes: 1. A finished consultant episode (FCE) is defined as a continuous period of admitted patient care under one consultant within one health care provider. FCEs are counted against the year in which they end. It should be noted that the figures do not represent the number of different patients, as a person may have more than one episode of care within the same stay in hospital or in different stays in the same year. 2. ‘Consultant main speciality’ is defined as the specialty under which the consultant responsible for the care of the patient at that time is registered. Care is needed when analysing hospital episode statistics (HES) data by specialty, or by groups of specialties (such as “acute”). Trusts have different ways of managing specialties and attributing codes so it is better to analyse by specific diagnoses, operations or other patient or service information. 3. A provider code is a unique code that identifies an organisation acting as a health care provider (e.g. NHS trust or primary care trust). Hospital providers can also include Treatment Centres (TC). TCs (also known as Diagnostic Centres) provide elective (planned) surgery for a range of conditions, mainly for day surgery or short-term hospital stay patients. Some Treatment Centres are attached to hospital trusts and HES enables data for these to be separately identified from the rest of the health care provider’s data. It does this by adding TC to the trust code; if there is more than one per trust T1, T2, T3 etc. are suggested unless alreadyinuse by the trust. Activity performed in the remainder of the trust is identified by the health care provider code being followed by an ‘X’. Hospital providers beginning with an ‘N’ indicates an independent sector health care provider. 4. To protect patient confidentiality, figures between one and 5 have been suppressed and replaced with “*” (an asterisk). Where it was possible to identify numbers from the total due to a single suppressed number in a row or column, an additional number (the next smallest) has been suppressed. 5. HES figures are available from 1989-90 onwards. The quality and coverage of the data have improved over time. These improvements in information submitted by the national health service have been particularly marked in the earlier years and need to be borne in mind when analysing time series. Some of the increase in figures for later years (particularly 2006-07 onwards) may be due to the improvement in the coverage of independent sector activity. Changes in NHS practice also need to be borne in mind when analysing time series. For example, a number of procedures may now be undertaken in outpatient settings and may no longer be accounted for in the HES data. This may account for any reductions in activity over time. 6. HES are compiled from data sent by over 300 NHS trusts and PCTs in England. Data are also received from a number of independent sector organisations for activity commissioned by the English NHS. The NHS Information Centre for health and social care liaises closely with these organisations to encourage submission of complete and valid data and seeks to minimise inaccuracies and the effect of missing and invalid data via HES processes. While this brings about improvement over time, some shortcomings remain. 7. Activity in English NHS Hospitals and English NHS commissioned activity in the independent sector. Source: HES, The NHS Information Centre for health and social care.

JUSTICE national media. The total cost of the function was £1,199.90 (excluding VAT). This expenditure included Christmas the provision of finger food and beverages, and the cost of staffing and equipment. Mr. Prisk: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice I did not attend any Christmas functions arranged by how many Christmas functions arranged by his the Ministry or its agencies other than the one I hosted Department and its agencies (a) he, (b) officials of his above. Department and (c) officials of its agencies (i) hosted and (ii) attended in 2008; what the cost to the public Officials at the Department and its agencies purse was; and if he will make a statement. [295452] The Department and its agencies do not fund Christmas parties, although staff may personally contribute towards Mr. Straw: The information requested is set out as the cost of such an event. follows: Attendance at and hosting of hospitality events, including Secretary of State Christmas parties, by Department and agency staff is I hosted one Christmas function in 2008. This was an recorded in local hospitality registers, in accordance event attended by approximately 50 members of the with Ministry of Justice policy. This data is not collated 133W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 134W centrally, and gathering information from local registers The statutory responsibilities of the Court Funds (including operational establishments) would be possible Office are set out in the Supreme Court Act 1981 and only at disproportionate cost. the Administration of Justice Act 1982 (AJA). CFO’s Details of the Corporate Management Board hospitality operational responsibilities are defined further in the register 2007, for hospitality received, has been published Court Funds Rules 1987. These pieces of legislation do externally on the Cabinet Office website at: not give CFO the power to levy any fees on its clients. http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/propriety_and_ethics/ civil_service/hospitality.aspx Courts The hospitality register has not been updated for 2008 yet. Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what recent assessment he has made of the At any time of year, awards may be made through the merits of using virtual courts; and if he will make a reward and recognition scheme in line with departmental statement. [297537] guidelines for team celebrations, including modest parties. Claire Ward: A pilot of Virtual Courts began in May Court Funds Office: Fees and Charges 2009 and is currently operating at 15 police stations in London, linked to Camberwell Green magistrates court; Mr. Bellingham: To ask the Secretary of State for and one police station in Kent, linked to Medway Justice what the fee income of the Court Funds Office magistrates court. was in 2008-09. [297988] Virtual Courts enable defendants to appear in a magistrates’ court for a first hearing while still physically located in the police station where they are charged. As Bridget Prentice: The Court Funds Office did not at 30 October 2009, the pilot had dealt with 263 cases. receive any fee income in 2008-09. CFO has no statutory Where cases can be heard on the same day that the ability to charge fees so does not receive an income from defendant is charged, the average time from charge to fees. first hearing is four hours. More than half of defendants The statutory responsibilities of the Court Funds have been sentenced at their Virtual Court hearing. Office are set out in the Supreme Court Act 1981 and The evaluation of the pilot is now underway and is the Administration of Justice Act 1982 (AJA). CFO’s due to report in September 2010. This will provide an operational responsibilities are defined further in the assessment of the extent to which Virtual Courts enable Court Funds Rules 1987. These pieces of legislation do resources to be used more efficiently. It will also explore not give CFO the power to levy any fees on its clients. the wider impact of the Virtual Court process to ensure that there is no adverse impact on the fairness of the Mr. Bellingham: To ask the Secretary of State for process for defendants, and gather feedback from victims, Justice what fees and charges were covered by the witnesses and practitioners. reference to fees and charges levied by the Court Funds Office on page 96 of his Department’s Resource Departmental Visits Abroad Accounts 2008-09. [297990] David Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for Bridget Prentice: The reference to fees and charges in Justice how much his Department spent on overnight the 2008-09 MoJ Resources Accounts is for accounting accommodation for (a) Ministers and (b) officials purposes. CFO has no statutory ability to charge fees to while overseas in each of the last three years. [294692] its clients. As set out on page 97 of the 2008-09 MoJ Resource Mr. Straw: Since 1999, the Government have published Accounts, the CFO generally recovers the full cost of a list of all overseas travel by Cabinet Ministers costing operations from the UK Debt Management Office each over £500 which can be found at the following link: year on a reimbursement basis, in accordance with the http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/propriety_and_ethics/ Administration of Justice Act 1982. The large surplus ministers/travel_gifts.aspx in 2008-09 has arisen because of a change in the basis The Ministry’s accounting system does not separately on which income is recognised from cash to accruals. identify the amount spent on overnight accommodation The income reflects £7.5 million in relation to costs overseas. These costs are subsumed within the broader incurred in 2007-08 and £5.8 million in relation to costs category of “overseas travel and subsistence” which incurred in 2008-09. In future, fees and expenditure will includes travel and meals as well as accommodation be on the same basis and will be aligned. costs, and includes costs incurred by Ministers as well as officials. Expenditure on this ‘wider’ category of Mr. Bellingham: To ask the Secretary of State for expenditure in the first two financial years of the Ministry’s Justice what proportion of the fee income of the Court existence, rounded to the nearest £000, is as follows: Funds Office in 2008-09 related to (a) Court of Protection cases, (b) payments into court and (c) £000 unclaimed balances. [297991] 2008-09 420 2007-08 524 Bridget Prentice: The Court Funds Office did not receive any fee income in 2008-09. CFO has no statutory These figures exclude the 42 local probation boards ability to charge fees so does not receive an income from and trusts as this information is held locally and could fees. be collated only at disproportionate cost. 135W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 136W

All overseas travel and subsistence is completed in on these issues, including the possibility of an employers’ line with the Staff Pay and Allowances Handbook, liability insurance bureau, have been received from a which states that all travel and accommodation should number of interested organisations and individuals. be by the most economical means possible, bearing in mind business need. Housing: Sales Employers’ Liability: Insurance Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many domestic property transactions were Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for recorded by the Land Registry in each region in each of Justice what representations he has received on the the last four quarters for which figures are available. establishment of an employers’ liability insurance [298672] bureau as an insurance fund of last resort for persons disabled by asbestos; and if he will make a statement. Mr. Wills: The following table shows the total number [297719] of registered residential properties sold at full value1 in each region of England and Wales in the requested Bridget Prentice: As part of its considerations on timeframe: pleural plaques and other issues relating to asbestos-related 1 Full value = residential property transactions where the full diseases the Government are examining the process for price has been paid. The figures exclude a number of transactions tracking and tracing employment and insurance records, including, Right to Buy sales at a discount, properties sold by way as well as looking into the support given to individuals of a gift, and properties sold under a compulsory purchase order who are unable to trace such records. Representations or a court order.

Region name July to September 2009 April to June 2009 January to March 2009 October to December 2008

North 7,660 7,214 5,069 6,846 North West 15,649 13,999 9,932 13,472 Yorks and Humber 13,839 12,493 8,667 12,315 Wales 7,590 6,845 4,558 6,421 West Midlands 13,794 11,639 8,227 11,078 East Midlands 13,536 11,854 7,827 11,017 East Anglia 9,080 7,543 4,724 6,433 South West 20,562 17,034 10,630 14,111 South East 43,539 34,551 22,573 29,127 Greater London 21,105 15,284 10,744 13,984 All regions 166,354 138,456 92,951 124,804

Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Legal aid Justice how many properties registered with the Land Registry changed ownership in each of the last six months. [298673] Anne Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mr. Wills: Land Registry is able to provide information how many applications for legal aid from residents of on the total number of registered residential properties (a) St. Albans constituency, (b) Hertfordshire and (c) sold at full value1 in each of the last six months for the East of England there were in each of the last five which figures are available. As these figures are extracted years. [297530] using price paid data, no information is available for any properties which have not been sold. The only way to identify other changes of ownership would be to Bridget Prentice: Applications for civil legal aid advice extract data regarding every application over the time are made to individual providers, and we record the period asked for. This could be provided only at number of instances of advice provided, rather than the disproportionate cost. number of applications made. Applications for civil 1 Full value = residential property transactions where the full legal aid representation are made to the Legal Services price has been paid. The figures exclude a number of transactions Commission. Not all applications are granted. The including, right to buy sales at a discount, properties sold by way applications received for representation for the last five of a gift, and properties sold under a compulsory purchase order or a court order. years in the requested areas is as follows:

Total sales (as at East of Financial year St. Albans1 Hertfordshire England 31 October 2009)

April 2009 39,754 2004-2005 356 2,120 15,732 May 2009 45,716 2005-2006 347 2,114 15,498 June 2009 52,986 2006-2007 415 2,000 14,935 July 2009 61,483 2007-2008 346 1,691 13,365 August 2009 55,146 2008-2009 330 1,848 13,670 September 2009 49,725 1 This covers the St. Albans local authority district area. 137W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 138W

Magistrates Courts: Wales past. Revised operational guidance to forces on the issue of PNDs for retail theft and criminal damage was Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice issued on 16 July 2009, making it clear that, for these what steps he is taking to reduce the costs of offences, only one ticket is appropriate. Guidance on enforcement and collection at magistrates courts in PNDs for cannabis possession makes it clear that only Wales. [297791] one ticket should be issued, as part of the police three-stage escalation enforcement procedure for the offence. Bridget Prentice: HMCS is currently in the process of implementing the HMCS Criminal Compliance and Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Enforcement Services: A Blueprint for 2008 to 2012 Justice whether he has made an assessment of the across England and Wales. The Blueprint sets out HMCS’s efficiency gains made by police forces consequent on strategic objective for enforcement which is for a cheaper, the introduction of penalty notices for disorder; and if faster and more proportionate system that primarily he will make a statement. [297533] focuses on ‘first time’ compliance while continuing to apply the principles of rigorous enforcement to the hard core of defaulters. Wales is currently developing Mr. Straw: I refer the hon. Member to the reply given and implementing plans to increase compliance with by my hon. Friend the then Minister of State for the court orders and make more efficient use of resources. Home Department (Mr. Coaker) on 5 March 2009, Official Report, column 1772. The rollout of the HMCS Modernising Money Handling Project (MMHP) in Wales has also contributed to reducing costs associated with collection of financial Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for penalties. The objective of the MMHP was to provide Justice what recent assessment he has made of the an enhanced range of payment methods that optimise merits of amending the operational guidance issued to accessibility, convenience and low cost for the fine payer police forces to ensure that penalty notices for disorder and HMCS by maximising the use of electronic payment are issued in police custody; and if he will make a methods. The automated systems introduced have reduced statement. [297535] the costs associated with cash handling and processing of payments. Mr. Straw: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I National Victims Service gave on 12 October 2009, Official Report, column 91W.

Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what recent discussions he has had on the Justice what the outcomes were of his Department’s effectiveness of the National Victims Service; and if he study of criminal histories and re-offending rates of will make a statement. [298217] penalty notice for disorder recipients for shop theft; and when that study will be published. [297538] Mr. Straw: On 29 September at the I announced my intention to create a national Mr. Straw: Provisional, unpublished results from a victims’ service. I and my officials have discussed the study of recipients of penalty notices for disorder (PNDs) development of the national victims’ service with a show that of a sample of 13,800 juvenile and adult range of partners including: Gillian Guy, chief executive offenders given a PND for theft during 2005, 33 per of Victim Support, the Commissioner of Metropolitan cent. reoffended within 12 months of receiving the Police and , the Victims’ Champion. This PND. 35 per cent. of offenders receiving a PND for service is currently being developed and the effectiveness theft in 2005 had no previous convictions or cautions. of the service in meeting victims’ needs will be core to its development. This study used data recorded on the police national computer and counted as a ’reoffence’ any offence Penalty Notices for Disorder committed during the 12-month period that resulted in a conviction or caution. This estimate of reoffending Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for cannot be directly compared to the published reoffending Justice what steps are being taken to increase levels of rates for three reasons: co-ordination between police constabularies to ensure it includes offences leading to a caution as well as a conviction that penalty notices for disorder are not repeatedly while the published National Statistics on adult reoffending issued to the same offender. [297536] counts only convictions; it covers offenders who in general have very different offending Mr. Straw: A 24-hour fixed penalty database (PentiP) backgrounds to those in the published cohorts; which cover will be available nationally from 2011. The system will offenders discharged from prison and offenders commencing a record details of all PNDs and road traffic fixed penalties. court order under probation supervision; and At present, police officers can access the Police National it covers both juvenile and adult offenders together, whereas Computer which records some, but not all, PNDs, as reoffending data are published separately for adults and juveniles. well as local records to identify if someone has previously The Ministry of Justice will, by the end of 2009, received a PND. consult on plans to publish a range of reoffending Operational guidance issued to the police states that related analyses that are not currently published. This a penalty notice may not be appropriate for issue where consultation will include data on the criminal histories it is known that the suspect has been issued with a and reoffending of recipients of penalty notices for number of tickets for disorder offences in the recent disorder. 139W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 140W

Prisoners Release: Reoffenders Prisons: Inspections

Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice : To ask the Secretary of State for pursuant to the answer of 2 November 2009, Official Justice pursuant to the written ministerial statement of Report, column 742W, on prisoner release reoffenders, 20 October 2009, Official Report, columns 53-54WS, what the original conviction was of the two offenders on temporary transfer of prisoners prior to inspection, released on end of custody licence who were later whether the prisoners moved between HMP convicted of murder. [298386] Pentonville and HMP Wandsworth were transferred by private contractors; and what record was kept of (a) the transfer of each prisoner and (b) the physical Mr. Straw: The original offences of the two offenders condition of each prisoner upon (i) departure and (ii) released on end of custody licence and who were later arrival. [297722] convicted of murder were assault (two counts) and possession of an offensive weapon respectively. Mr. Straw: All but two of the prisoners subject to temporary transfers between Wandsworth and Pentonville Prisons: Drugs during May and June of this year were transferred by private contractors. Two prisoners were originally due to be transferred by private contractors from Wandsworth Mr. Garnier: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice to Pentonville but, according to the investigation into how many (a) adult prisons and (b) young offender these matters, were transferred by taxi, and escorted by institutions (i) had a body orifice security scanner prison officers. (BOSS) chair and (ii) were using a BOSS chair on 1 All prisoner movements, within and between prisons, June 2009; and how many discoveries of (A) illegal are recorded on the local inmate database. Furthermore, drugs and (B) mobile telephones had been made using policy requires that all prisoner movements should have those chairs on the latest date for which figures are a prisoner escort record (PER) which contains all relevant available. [290753] information about a prisoner in addition to a documented chain of custody. It has not been possible, in the time Maria Eagle: I have today issued a written ministerial available, to obtain the PERs of all the prisoners. statement to clarify details around the roll-out of the All the prisoners involved in these transfers were seen BOSS chairs. NOMS has now purchased and delivered by a health care professional either on departure, arrival at least one BOSS chair to every prison that did not or both and had entries in their patient records to that already have one (five extra BOSS chairs were purchased effect. The substance of these records is covered by for prisons with split sites)—128 in total. This includes patient confidentiality. the female, open and contracted estate, and nine prisons which have a main function as a young offenders’ institution. Immigration removal centres were not included, Reoffenders as the use of mobile phones is not prohibited in those sites. David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for NOMS headquarters have not mandated how BOSS Justice (1) if he will place in the Library copies of the chairs must be used. As is the case for many searching power point presentations the Prime Minister has technologies and techniques, the decision on how to use received since January 2007 on the effectiveness of the BOSS chairs is for individual Governors to make, policies to reduce re-offending rates; [297520] and will depend on their local circumstances, including their existing local searching strategies. The relevant (2) if he will place in the Library copies of the power Prison Service Instruction (PSI) states: “The frequency point presentations he has received since January 2007 of searches using the BOSS and policies for its use are on the effectiveness of policies to reduce re-offending for local discretion”. rates. [297521] The pattern of use will vary over time and it is not possible to say how many BOSS chairs are operational Mr. Straw: PowerPoint presentations form part of on any given day. According to a recent survey of BOSS the advice Ministers receive on the development of chair usage, 115 prisons reported that the BOSS chair policy. This policy development continues to evolve, was in use. Reasons for non-operation include chairs and as such it would not be appropriate to place them in awaiting repair or return from repairs and awaiting the Library at this time. building work to accommodate the chair. Steps have Reoffending rates are published annually as National been taken to improve the .provision of maintenance Statistics in accordance with arrangements approved by services. Prisons deploy hand-held detection wands as the UK Statistics Authority. The latest statistics were an effective alternative. published on 21 May 2009 and show that the rate of NOMS does not hold records centrally of the number reoffending in 2007 has fallen by 11.1 per cent. for adult of mobile phones discovered using the BOSS chair. In offenders and 7.5 per cent. for juvenile offenders compared order to provide the information requested, we would to 2005 (this is set against a target to reduce reoffending need to contact all Prison Service establishments, ask by 10 per cent. between 2005 and 2011). The results of them to check their local records and to submit this research evidence on the effectiveness of policies to information to headquarters. This would incur reduce reoffending rates can be found on the Ministry disproportionate cost. BOSS chairs are not designed to of Justice website: detect illegal drugs. http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/research.htm 141W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 142W

Reparation by Offenders Shoplifting: Convictions

Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Mrs. Maria Miller: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many convictions there were for shoplifting Justice what progress has been made in the in each of the last three years. [297554] implementation of reducing re-offending pathways. [298709] Mr. Straw: Information showing the number of defendants found guilty at all courts for stealing from Maria Eagle: The reducing reoffending pathways were shops and stalls (shoplifting) in England and Wales first proposed by the Social Exclusion Unit in their from 2005 to 2007 (latest available) can be viewed in the 2002 report ‘Reducing Reoffending by Ex-Prisoners’. table. Data for 2008 are planned for publication at the The concept was developed in the NOMS National end of January 2010. Reducing Reoffending Action Plan (2004) and Delivery Number of defendants found guilty at all courts for shoplifting1, Plan (2005). The pathways have been embedded in the England and Wales, 2005 to 20072,3 cross-government work informing the Delivery Plan for Offence Statute 2005 2006 2007 PSA 23: Priority Action 4 which seeks to reduce the volume and seriousness of adult reoffending. Stealing Theft 64,076 58,536 62,565 from shops Act 1968 The National Offender Management Service’s ‘Annual and stalls Section 1 Report and Accounts 2008-09’ states that all 16 of the (shoplifting) targets relating to the reoffending pathways, were met. 1Stealing from “shops and stalls” (shoplifting) is an offence under These included: Theft Act 1968, section 1. 2The statistics relate to persons for whom these offences were the providing over 27,000 places on cognitive behavioural programmes; principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences the principal offence providing over 12,000 places on drug programmes and Drug is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the Rehabilitation Requirements; same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence ensuring that over 40 per cent. of offenders were employed at selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the termination of their licence; the most severe. 3Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are ensuring that 26 per cent. of prisoners entered employment on accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these release; data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care ensuring that 70 per cent. of offenders are in settled and should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their suitable accommodation at the end of their order or licence; inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are and used. Source: ensuring that 80 per cent. of prisoners move into settled Evidence and Analysis Unit—Office for Criminal Justice Reform. accommodation upon release. The Government will shortly publish ‘Improving Health, Supreme Court: Costs Supporting Justice’, a national delivery plan for improving health and social care services for all those in touch Mr. Bellingham: To ask the Secretary of State for with the criminal justice system. This follows the publication Justice how many employees there are in the new of Lord Bradley’s report looking at the needs of offenders Supreme Court; and what their total wage bill is for with mental health and learning difficulties in April 2009-10. [296914] 2009. A framework document ‘Reducing Reoffending, Mr. Straw: There are 39 employees of the Supreme Supporting Families, Creating Better Futures’was launched Court. The total pay wage bill for the first six months of last week by the Department of Children Schools and the Court (October 2009 to March 2010) is £910,000. Families (DCSF) and The Ministry of Justice (MOJ). This figure is inclusive of ERNIC (earnings-related The framework sets out the Departments’ shared national insurance contributions) and ASLC (liability commitment to working in partnership to improve the charges, including pension contributions). delivery of services to the children and families of offenders. Mr. Bellingham: To ask the Secretary of State for Work with the Financial Services Authority, Legal Justice what the salary is of the Chief Executive of the Services Commission and the Department for Work new Supreme Court. [296917] and Pensions has helped to develop a consistent approach which will enable offenders to manage their finances. Mr. Straw: The salary of the chief executive of the Supreme Court is £107,000 per annum. The work that has been done within the pathways supports the Government’s target to reduce the number of reoffences by 10 per cent. between 2005 and 2011. Young Offender Institutions Reoffending rates are published annually as National Statistics in accordance with arrangements approved by Mr. Pelling: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice the UK Statistics Authority. The latest statistics were what his estimate is of the monetary value of the (a) published on 21 May 2009 and show that the rate of fixed and (b) working capital contained in (i) prisons reoffending in 2007 has fallen by 11.1 per cent. for adult and (ii) young offender institutions (A) in total and (B) offenders and 7.5 per cent. for juvenile offenders compared per person in custody in each case; and what to 2005 (this is set against a target to reduce reoffending methodology is used to calculate the values of land and by 10 per cent. between 2005 and 2011). buildings for these purposes. [296972] 143W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 144W

Maria Eagle: Calculations for (a) fixed capital and “It is thought around 108Kt/yr of UCO is currently collected (b) working capital are not produced for Prisons or from catering premises” Young Offender Institutions because the main financial and: ledgers (bank, accounts payable and accounts receivable) “UCO from food factories is thought to be around 20Kt/yr.” are held centrally. As a result we cannot give estimates The report points out that this latter material is of per person in custody either. The National Offender higher quality and is primarily used for animal feed. Management Service (NOMS accounts for 2008-09 have The report also quotes independent analysis by the been prepared in accordance with the 2008-09 Government university of Swansea (Jones, P. (2004). The Collection Financial Reporting Manual (FReM) issued by HM of Used Vegetable Oil at Civic Amenity Sites. MRES Treasury, and the Accounts Direction issued by HM Thesis, university of Swansea) which suggests that up to Treasury. The accounting policies in the FReM follow 30,000 tonnes per year could be available from households. UK generally accepted accounting policies for companies However, WRAP considers that domestically-derived (UK GAAP) to the extent that it is meaningful and used cooking oil is likely to be contaminated and of appropriate to the public sector. poor quality, requiring considerable cleaning and blending In accordance with accounting standards the custodial before it is suitable for conversion to biodiesel. In total, estate was subject to external revaluation at 31 March the report estimates that: 2009. Land and Buildings relating to the custodial “across all sources total UCO arisings are at least 250Kt/yr,” estate were valued by the Valuation Office Agency at £5.2 billion. Prisons are valued at depreciated replacement much of which is poured down the drain or landfilled. cost adopting where appropriate alternative site locations. The report further estimates that approximately 82,000 The valuation was in accordance with the RICS Valuation tonnes of waste vegetable oil is being transformed into Standards 6th Edition. biodiesel each year for use in the transport, heat or The NOMS Accounts for 2008-09 show details of power sectors, with approximately 20,000 tonnes/yr being fixed and working capital at total NOMS level and exported, 5,000 tonnes/yr used in the oleochemical industry Note 7 provides full details of the most recent valuation and 1,000 tonnes/yr either incinerated or used in CHP. of the land and buildings. A copy of the accounts is available in the House of Commons Library. Carbon Emissions

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Lembit Öpik: To ask the Secretary of State for Biofuels Energy and Climate Change whether he has received any recent representations on proposals for a zero- David Taylor: To ask the Secretary of State for carbon economy. [296969] Energy and Climate Change what steps his Department is taking to promote the production of Joan Ruddock: I am not aware of any recent sustainable biofuels in the UK. [298368] representations to the Department on proposals for a Joan Ruddock: The UK was instrumental in ensuring zero-carbon economy. the EU renewable energy directive contains sustainability criteria that will apply from December 2010 to biofuels Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for for transport and bioliquids for heat and electricity, Energy and Climate Change what recent discussions he used in the UK and in other European member states. has had with the Swedish Presidency of the Council of The directive also placed a requirement on the Ministers on proposals for an international climate Commission to report on the need for sustainability change agreement on carbon emissions. [298059] criteria for the solid biomass used for heat and electricity by 31 December 2009, and to bring forward proposals Joan Ruddock: My right hon. Friend the Secretary of as appropriate. Ahead of this, in April 2009, we introduced State is in frequent contact with the Swedish Environment a sustainability reporting requirement to the Renewables Minister, Andreas Carlgren concerning all aspects of an Obligation for electricity generators over 50kW combusting International Climate Change Agreement, including biomass. In addition, grant applications to our energy emissions reduction proposals and targets. The Ministers crops scheme are subject to an environmental assessment. most recently met to discuss this in Barcelona on 31 October David Taylor: To ask the Secretary of State for and at Environment Council in Brussels on 21 October. Energy and Climate Change what estimate his Department has made of the potential contribution of Coal biodiesel produced from used cooking oil to the production of renewable electricity and heat. [298370] Mr. Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Joan Ruddock: Estimates of the availability of used Energy and Climate Change how many tonnes of coal cooking oil (UCO) for biodiesel production were made have been produced in the UK in each of the last five as part of the WRAP/EA 2008 financial impact assessment years. [298352] report for the production and use of biodiesel derived from cooking oil and rendered animal fat (tallow). This Mr. Kidney: The following table shows published states: figures on UK coal production for the last five years.

Thousand tonnes Deep-mined production Opencast production Total production1

2004 12,542 11,993 24,535 145W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 146W

Thousand tonnes Deep-mined production Opencast production Total production1

2005 9,563 10,445 20,008 2006 9,444 8,635 18,079 2007 7,674 8,866 16,540 2008 8,096 9,509 17,604 1 These figures exclude estimates of slurry recovered from ponds, dumps, rivers etc. Source: Digest of UK Energy Statistics 2009, Table 2.7, available at: http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/source/coal/coal.aspx

Mr. Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Joan Ruddock: Since DECC’s inception, the Department Energy and Climate Change how many people have for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) been employed in the UK coal industry in each of the and the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills last five years. [298353] (BIS) manage the Department’s estate, including mail services. I refer the hon. Member to the answers given Mr. Kidney: The following table shows UK coal by my hon. Friends the Parliamentary Under-Secretary employment figures for the last five years. of State for Rural Affairs and Environment at DEFRA on 3 November 2009, Official Report, column 800W Average UK coal industry and the Minister of State for Employment Relations employment and Postal Affairs at BIS on 3 November 2009, Official 2004 7,909 Report, column 967W. 2005 6,536 2006 5,562 Electricity 2007 5,411 2008 5,805 Source: Mr. Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for UK Coal Authority, available at: Energy and Climate Change what percentage of http://www.coal.gov.uk/publications/miningtechnology/index.cfm electricity has been generated from (a) coal, (b) Departmental Postal Services nuclear power, (c) renewables and (d) gas in each of the last five years. [298356] Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change which companies are Mr. Kidney: The percentage shares of UK electricity under contract to his Department to provide mail generation by coal, nuclear, renewables and gas, from services; and when each such contract expires. [296079] 2004 to 2008 are given in the following table:

Coal-fired electricity Nuclear electricity Renewables sourced Gas-fired electricity generation in the UK generation in the UK electricity generation in the generation in the UK UK Total electricity Percentage Percentage generation in the share of share of Percentage Percentage UK GWh total GWh total GWh share of total GWh share of total

393,929 GWh 131,788 33.5 79,999 20.3 14,147 3.6 157,064 39.9 398,303 GWh 134,637 33.8 81,618 20.5 16,940 4.3 152,642 38.3 397,292 GWh 149,214 37.6 75,451 19.0 18,116 4.6 140,828 35.4 397,044 GWh 136,545 34.4 63,028 15.9 19,646 4.9 165,784 41.5 389,649 GWh 125,315 32.2 52,486 13.5 21,597 5.5 176,749 45.4

Energy Supply Domestically, the UK has only recently passed an ambitious Climate Change Act and DECC has recently published the UK low carbon transition plan. Our John Hemming: To ask the Secretary of State for climate change and energy security policies outlined Energy and Climate Change what the Government’s there are not only reducing the UK’s carbon emissions, latest estimate is of the (a) date and (b) level of peak but are consistent with the need to reduce our use of global production of (i) oil, (ii) gas, (iii) coal and (iv) fossil fuels. In addition, the Government are reforming uranium-235. [297575] the regulatory framework for planning and consents through the Energy and Planning Acts 2008, which will help to improve the security of our energy supplies. Mr. Kidney: The Government do not estimate global resources. Data are available from a range of For information, the following provides information publications—the International Energy Agency (hereafter on future supplies for each fuel. IEA) is an authoritative source. The Government do, (i) Oil however, publish the Energy Markets Outlook, an annual The IEA’s view1 is that there are reserves to meet report on UK Security of Supply, which includes discussion demand at least through to 2030, if sufficient investment of longer term availability of fuels. in production capacity is forthcoming. Thus the immediate 147W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 148W risk to oil production is not the level of resources and Housing stock (England) by energy efficiency rating band, 2005 to reserves, but the world’s ability to convert these reserves 2007 into production now and in the long run. The UK Band Band Band Band Band Band recognises that tight oil markets could lead to high and A/B C D E F G volatile oil prices with potential negative effects on the 2005 0.1 6.8 27.7 41.7 19.3 4.4 economy. 2006 0.2 7.0 29.8 41.3 17.5 4.3 (ii) Gas 2007 0.2 7.7 33.0 39.9 15.3 4.0 As with oil, the IEA foresees that gas reserves are Note: more than sufficient to meet demand to 2030, with The rating bands are based on the energy efficiency (SAP) rating with band A indicating the most efficient and band G the least efficient remaining reserves more than doubling since 1980, and housing. The number of dwellings in band A is too small for the by more than 15 per cent. for every year since 2000. sample survey to provide a robust estimate and therefore bands A and Moreover, despite rising annual production, new discoveries B have been combined. presently exceeded production. The IEA therefore forecasts Source: that production will be able to meet the growth in English House Condition Survey. demand until at least 2030. The proportion of housing in more energy efficient bands A to D increased from 35 per cent. to 41 per cent. (iii) Coal of the whole stock over this period. Over the same According to the Department of Energy and Climate period, the proportion in the less efficient bands F and Change’s December 2008 Energy Market Outlook, coal G fell from 24 per cent. to 19 per cent. is the most abundant fossil fuel in terms of reserves. In line with procedure for the publication of official These reserves are geographically well dispersed, with statistics, the data for the average SAP rating of new-build economically recoverable reserves in more than 70 countries housing is being published on 10 November. worldwide. The IEA similarly suggests that there are more than enough coal reserves to meet the growth in The Department recently completed a joint project global demand until 2030. However, sufficient investment with the Energy Efficiency Partnership for Homes (EEPfH) will be needed in new mining projects and prospecting. looking at compliance levels for new homes built to the standards required by the 2006 amendment of Part L (iv) Nuclear (Conservation of fuel and power) of the Building The OECD/NEA and IAEA collates information Regulations. Two reports have been published at the about uranium resources and publishes a comprehensive EEPfH website at 2 report every two years. The OECD/NEA concluded in www.eeph.org.uk. a forward looking report on nuclear energy in November 20083 that identified uranium resources are sufficient to The Department has received representations from a fuel an expansion of global nuclear generating capacity, range of interests about compliance with the Building without reprocessing, at least until 2050. Based on Regulations. regional geological data, resources that are expected to exist could increase uranium supply to several hundreds Fuel Poverty of years. References: Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 As outlined in their World Energy Outlook 2008 (published in Energy and Climate Change how many households in November 2008). Any references to the IEA are taken from this (a) Mid Bedfordshire constituency, (b) Bedfordshire, publication. (c) the East of England and (d) England are living in 2 The most recent report was published in June 2008. Uranium fuel poverty. [295410] 2007: Resources, Production and Demand (“The Red Book”). 3 Nuclear Energy Outlook. OECD/NEA, November 2008. Mr. Kidney: The most recently available sub-regional split of fuel poverty relates to 2006, and shows that Energy: Housing there were around 2,900 fuel poor households in the Mid-Bedfordshire constituency and around 12,500 fuel poor households in Bedfordshire. Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what change in average Standard More recent figures are available for England and the Assessment Procedure (SAP) ratings of (a) all and (b) regions. These show that in 2007, there were around new-build housing stock in England has been achieved 253,000 fuel poor households in the east of England in each SAP band A to G in each year since 2005; what and 2.8 million fuel poor households in England. assessment he has made of how the actual energy rating of new-build houses corresponds with that Hydrogen predicted by their developers; what representations he has received on the post-build level of energy efficiency Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy in new-build houses; and if he will make a statement. and Climate Change what assessment his Department [297459] has made of the merits of underground storage of hydrogen fuel cells. [297461] John Healey: I have been asked to reply. The English House Condition Survey reports Mr. Kidney: We have assumed that the question is annually on the energy efficiency of the housing stock intended to refer to the underground storage of hydrogen, as a whole. The proportion of housing in England in not hydrogen fuel cells. each energy efficiency rating band between 2005 and The Department of Energy and Climate Change has 2007 (the latest estimates available) are set out in the not made an assessment of the merits of underground following table. storage of hydrogen. 149W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 150W

Underground storage of hydrogen in geologically heat technologies. Like the feed-in tariffs, our aim is to suitable sites could provide a useful buffering capacity make the RHI as accessible, flexible and user-friendly as to enable supply to be matched to demand. Such a possible to potential investors in renewable heat at all situation could arise if the UK were to achieve a high scales, from the household scale up to the large industrial market penetration of fuel cell powered vehicles, but scale. this is not expected to occur until 2020 or later. Hydrogen Natural Gas: Prices is in widespread use in oil refineries and as an industrial chemical. Hydrogen has been stored successfully in salt Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy caverns in Teesside to meet the demands of the and Climate Change if he will make it his policy to (a) petrochemical industry. estimate the level of profits made by gas companies Microgeneration: Government Assistance which do not adjust their charges in line with a reduction in energy prices and (b) assess the effects on consumers of the practices of such companies. [297299] Anne Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what steps his Department is Mr. Kidney: Energy suppliers often buy gas and electricity taking to promote on-site micro-generation projects. many months in advance in order to protect from [297709] short-term fluctuations in wholesale costs. This generally results in a time lag between wholesale and retail price Joan Ruddock: The Low Carbon Buildings Programme movements. In response to a request from the Government, (LCBP) is our £131 million grant programme offering the regulator Ofgem now reports on a quarterly basis funding for small scale onsite energy technologies to on movements in wholesale costs, suppliers’ margins householders, public, community and not-for profit-sectors. and retail prices. This is leading to a greater transparency Phase 1 (currently open to householders) was recently extended in the relationship between these factors. Ofgem is also from 1 July 2010 until March 2011 with an additional budget of responsible for monitoring and promoting competition £1 million for 2009-10 and £5 million for 2010-11. To date Phase 1 in these markets. of the programme has committed £24.6 million to 12,175 projects. Phase 2 of the programme (community, public/non profit Nuclear Power Stations sector)—has already allocated over £62 million to 2,851 projects. This part of the programme was also extended from 1 July 2009 Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy until 30 March 2011 with a budget of £39 million for 2009-10 and and Climate Change what discussions he has had with £10 million for 2010-11. The extension will continue to provide each company which has expressed an interest in building grant funding to charitable, community groups and public sector new nuclear power plants on (a) setting a floor price organisation projects. for carbon, (b) updating insurance arrangements for Working with the Energy Saving Trust (EST) we are new-build reactors and (c) the financing of radioactive publicising the Phase 1 householder funding stream waste management and decommissioning of new nuclear through a network of local energy advice centres providing power plants in the last 12 months; and if he will information and the Act on CO2 website and helpline to publish the minutes of each meeting with each such inform and assist consumers. company. [297543] We will shortly be implementing a promotional campaign for Phase 2 through a series of ‘road shows’ and Mr. Kidney: Ministers meet regularly with a range of presentations in all English regions, Scotland, Wales energy companies and other organisations, and discuss and Northern Ireland—raising awareness of the fact a large number of issues, including issues related to new that organisations can apply for 50 per cent. of the cost nuclear power stations. Ministers will continue to do so for installing approved technologies up to a maximum in the future. of £200,000 per application. We hope to see as many Oil Fired Power Stations projects as possible coming forward to achieve their ambitions and install small scale onsite technologies. Dr. Whitehead: To ask the Secretary of State for Planning regulations for domestic small scale renewable Energy and Climate Change how many tonnes of oil energy installations which have little or no impact beyond were burned to produce electricity in oil-fired power the host property have been relaxed and we have introduced stations in the UK in (a) 2005, (b) 2006, (c) 2007 and the Microgeneration Certification Scheme (MCS) providing (d) 2008. [298061] improved consumer confidence in the quality and reliability of microgeneration products and installations. Mr. Kidney: The following table shows published figures on the oil used in UK power stations for 2005 to We have enhanced incentives to install microgeneration 2008: technologies with increased support through the Renewables Obligation (which places an obligation on UK suppliers Million tonnes of electricity to source an increasing proportion of their Oil used by major Oil used by other Total oil used in electricity from renewable sources). Going forward, two power producers generators generation new financial incentives will have a real impact on pushing small scale onsite energy technologies into the 2005 0.79 0.42 1.22 forefront of our energy future. Feed-in tariffs for electricity 2006 0.81 0.47 1.28 will act as a major incentive for the development of the 2007 0.54 0.44 0.99 market up to 5 MW, and we are working to have feed-in 2008 0.84 0.41 1.25 Note: tariffs in place in April 2010. This also includes oil used in power stations where co-fired with coal, gas and Our Renewable Heat Incentive or payments for every biomass. Source: kilowatt of renewable heat produced will be one of the Digest of UK Energy Statistics, 2009, Table 5.4, available at: http://decc.gov.uk/ world’s first financial mechanisms to support renewable en/content/cms/stallstics/source/electricity/electricity.aspx 151W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 152W

Dr. Whitehead: To ask the Secretary of State for Renewable Energy Energy and Climate Change how many kilowatt hours of electricity were produced via oil-fired power stations produced in (a) 2005, (b) 2006, (c) 2007 and (d) 2008. [298062] Mr. McLoughlin: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has Mr. Kidney: The following table shows the amount of made of the relative costs and benefits of (a) oil-fired generation between 2005 and 2008. photovoltaic tiles and (b) wind turbines. [295872]

GWh Major power Other Total oil-fired Mr. Kidney [holding answer 26 October 2009]: The producers generators generation analysis underpinning Renewable Energy Strategy, 2005 2,921 2,417 5,388 published in July 2009, used assumptions on the generating 2006 3,359 2,450 5,809 costs of different electricity generating technologies to 2007 2,401 2,331 4,732 2020, full details of which are set out in Element (2009) 2008 3,667 2,434 6,101 and Redpoint/Trilemma (2009), which are available on Note: the DECC website. The following table summarises This also includes oil’s share of generation when co-fired with other these assumptions with respect to solar photovoltaic fuels. and wind generation in 2009. Source: Digest of UK Energy Statistics, 2009, Table 5.6, available at: http:// decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/source/electricity/ electricity.aspx

Operating Capital expenditure expenditure (£/kW/ Load factor Technology life Technology (source) (£/kW) year) (percentage) (years)

Solar photovoltaics up to 5000kW in size (Element, 2009) 4,000-5,300 20-44 ~10 25 Wind 15kW to 5000kW in size (Element, 2009) 1,500-3,000 44-74 2-32 10-20 Onshore wind large-scale (Redpoint/Trilemma, 2009) 1,172-1,329 40 21-29 20 Offshore wind (Redpoint/Trilemma, 2009) 2,159-3,036 68 35-41 20

Wind generation in the UK generally faces lower harness renewable energy and combat climate change. capital costs and higher operating costs than solar [297914] photovoltaic generation. Each unit of energy from new wind and photovoltaic Joan Ruddock [holding answer 5 November 2009]: installations are assumed to replace an equivalent supply The Government are pushing for an ambitious, effective of conventional electricity generation. The conventional and fair agreement at the 15th Conference of Parties of electricity would be produced at a lower generation the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate cost, and wind and photovoltaic generation thus impose Change, in Copenhagen; the agreement will drive the a resource cost on the UK economy. development of climate technologies and their deployment However, both wind and photovoltaic generation in developing countries. My ministerial colleagues and I involve very low level of carbon dioxide emissions over have had many discussions with counterparts in other their lifetimes. By replacing conventional electricity countries’ Governments over recent months on the issue generation, wind and photovoltaics reduce the carbon of technology and climate change. These have been dioxide emissions from the electricity sector, and thus a through multilateral fora such as the Major Economies unit of energy from either creates the same carbon-related Forum and the Danish-hosted Greenland Dialogue, as benefits through reducing the number of EU Allowances well as bilaterally. In October, Lord Hunt attended the for greenhouse gas emissions the UK electricity sector “Delhi High Level Conference on Climate Change: has to buy within the EU Emissions Trading Scheme Technology Deployment and Transfer” hosted by the (or increasing the number to sell). Other costs and Indian Government. benefits of renewables deployment, such as those relating to security of supply and the wider economy, are considered Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy in the impact assessment for the Renewable Energy and Climate Change what discussions he plans to have Strategy. before the United Nations Climate Change Conference with his international counterparts on technology Both wind and solar photovoltaics are expected to transfers to developing nations to enable them to play important roles in achieving the UK’s 2020 renewables harness renewable energy and combat climate change. target. [297916]

Renewable Energy: Developing Countries Joan Ruddock [holding answer 5 November 2009]: The Government are pushing for an ambitious, effective Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and fair agreement in Copenhagen that will drive the and Climate Change what recent discussions he has development of climate technologies and their deployment had with his international counterparts on technology in developing countries. Ministers from the Department transfers to developing nations to enable them to of Energy and Climate Change have had many discussions 153W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 154W with their international counterparts on the issue of compared with those who did not (79 per cent. compared technology and climate change and will continue to do to 58 per cent.), as had been found in previous years of so in the run-up to the 15th Conference of Parties of the the same survey. United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, in Copenhagen. Mr. Moss: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has made of Warm Front Scheme progress on installation of wind powered generation to contribute to his 2020 targets. [298378] Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of 16 Mr. Kidney: We currently have 4 gigawatts (GW) of October 2009, Official Report, column 1152W, on the operational wind power. Electricity generation from Warm Front Scheme, what proportion of households offshore wind increased by 67 per cent. from 2007 to received second surveys in each month since July 2009. 2008 alone. We also achieved a 29 per cent. increase in [297131] electricity generation from onshore wind over the same period. Mr. Kidney [holding answer 2 November 2009]: The The UK does not have any targets for wind power following table indicates the proportion of second surveys generation in 2020. However, under the lead scenario in carried out as percentage of the total surveys in each the recently published Renewable Energy Strategy, more month since July 2009. This proportion is considerably than 30 per cent. of our electricity could be generated higher than the overall proportion referred to in my from renewables by 2020. Much of this would be from previous answer because the increases in the Warm onshore and offshore wind. Front grant maxima, announced in April 2009, have meant that more households have been able to return to Mr. Moss: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy the scheme for additional measures. and Climate Change what the declared net capacity is of onshore windfarms in the UK; and what percentage Month Proportion (percentage) of his wind targets for 2020 that figure represents. July 2009 17 [298379] August 2009 15 September 2009 13 Mr. Kidney: The total declared net capacity of wind power in 2008 was 1,432 megawatts (MW). Onshore 1 Warm Front Scheme: Mobile Homes wind’s share of this was 1,188 MW . The UK does not have any targets for wind power generation in 2020. However, under the lead scenario in the recently published Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Renewable Energy Strategy, more than 30 per cent. of and Climate Change what products are being trialled our electricity could be generated from renewables by for inclusion in the Warm Front scheme for the heating 2020. Much of this would be from onshore and offshore and insulation of park home properties; where such wind. trials are taking place; and what criteria are being used 1 Source: to assess their suitability for inclusion in the scheme. [296858] DUKES 2009, table 7.1.1: http://decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/source/ Mr. Kidney: Warm Front will be undertaking a piloting renewables/renewabkes.aspx exercise of insulation technologies for park home properties. Technologies will be assessed against a variety of criteria, including cost of installation, energy savings and customer FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE satisfaction. Details of the pilot, including the specific technology types and target areas, are currently being Afghanistan: Dams finalised. Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Wind Power and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has received on whether the Kajaki Dam in Afghanistan is Mr. Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy fully operational. [297885] and Climate Change what recent assessment he has made of the effects on local communities of the siting Mr. Ivan Lewis: The United States Agency for of wind turbines near them. [297968] International Development (USAID) has completed the rehabilitation of the two existing Kajaki Dam Mr. Kidney: The Department has not made any recent hydroelectric turbines, restoring them to their full assessment on the effects on local communities of the operational capacity. Their combined generation produces siting of wind farms near them. approximately 33 megawatts of electricity, which is However, DECC carries out an annual survey on enough electricity for about 200,000 people. renewable energy awareness and attitudes. The results The rehabilitation of the second of these turbines of the 2009 annual survey were published on 5 November was completed in October 2009, and will double the 2009. It revealed that 62 per cent. of the general public generation capacity available to Helmand and Kandahar would be happy to live within five kilometres (three Provinces. Additionally, in September 2009 the construction miles) of a wind power development. Those who reported of a new substation and electricity grid was completed, being influenced by living near to a renewable energy improving the electrical distribution efficiency for Lashkar development were more likely to agree with this statement Gah city. 155W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 156W

USAID is committed to installing a third unit at Anti-Semitism: Eastern Europe Kajaki which would increase the generation capacity to 51 megawatts, and to constructing a new transmission Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign line from Kajaki to Kandahar when the security situation and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has becomes permissive. received in 2009 on levels of anti-Semitism in (a) Ukraine, (b) Latvia and (c) Estonia; and if he will Afghanistan: Drugs make a statement. [298224]

Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Chris Bryant: We are aware of a number of localised and Commonwealth Affairs how much the anti-Semitic incidents in Ukraine, including desecration Government has spent on counter-narcotics work in of cemeteries, synagogues, private properties and Holocaust memorials, which have been reported in the local media Afghanistan in each year since 2001. [297945] this year. We take a serious view of these dreadful Mr. Ivan Lewis: Before 2004, the UK did not have a incidents and continue to urge the Ukrainian authorities dedicated counter-narcotics (CN) programme in to tackle them in a determined way in accordance with Afghanistan; projects targeting the drugs trade were Ukraine’s international commitments. The British embassy funded from other programmes. in Kyiv remains in contact with local human rights organisations and senior representatives of Ukraine’s In 2005, the Afghan drugs interdepartmental unit Jewish community. The British ambassador met the was created to manage the UK’s increasing counter- Chief Rabbi of Ukraine in October 2009. We have not narcotics effort. Since then, UK expenditure on the CN received reports of violent attacks on Jewish people, programme in Afghanistan has been as follows: synagogues or property in Latvia or Estonia in 2009, but we keep a close eye on any anti-Semitic political £ million developments. 2005-06 46.8 British Council: Manpower 2006-07 45.8 2007-08 43.8 Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-09 49.2 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the 2009-10 136.7 answer of 27 October 2009, Official Report, column 1 Forecast figure. 253W, on the British Council: manpower, how many The majority of this funding is drawn from the temporary staff are employed by the British Council; FCO’s Strategic Programme Fund. and if he will make a statement. [298416] CN is a crucial component of our counter-insurgency Chris Bryant: On 9 September 2009 the British Council effort. Our CN programme includes support for the had 199 temporary workers in the UK. However it is interdiction and prosecution of major drug traffickers unable to provide this information for its overseas office and the provision of alternative livelihoods for farmers, without incurring disproportionate cost. including support to Governor Mangal’s Helmand Counter-Narcotics campaign. There have been some Chevening Scholarships Programme successes. In September, the UN Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) confirmed a 22 per cent. decrease in Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign opium poppy cultivation in Afghanistan in 2008—including and Commonwealth Affairs how many Chevening a 33 per cent. reduction in Helmand. This builds on last scholarships were awarded to individuals from (a) year’s success, when UNODC recorded a 19 per cent. Bangladesh, (b) Nepal, (c) India, (d) China and (e) fall in cultivation. Growing Afghan law enforcement Pakistan in each of the last 10 years. [298770] capacity is increasingly having an impact on corruption and on the insurgency, with steady increases in the Chris Bryant: The number of Chevening scholars number of significant drug traffickers convicted and the from each country over the last 10 years is set out in the amount of drugs seized. following table:

Chevening scholars Number 1999- 2000 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Bangladesh 10 6 9 15 15 10 8 12 7 10 Nepal510861034432 India 125 135 130 133 121 130 80 77 51 33 China 186 177 171 230 311 277 216 163 172 111 Pakistan 50 51 51 57 62 52 39 41 38 26

Colombia: Political Prisoners has received estimating the number of political prisoners held in Colombia. [297703]

Alun Michael: To ask the Secretary of State for Chris Bryant [holding answer 5 November 2009]: Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he There is a wide variety of reports from different sources 157W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 158W with diverging estimates of alleged political prisoners in £ Colombia. We wholly condemn any government that targets or imprisons individuals for their political 2001-02 754,939.00 orientation. 2002-03 616,447.00 We are aware of allegations that Colombian individuals 2003-04 811,819.00 are being imprisoned or charged with offences, as a 2004-05 683,900 result of their political views or activities. We have 2005-06 940,570 pointed out to the Colombian authorities that those 2006-07 924,000 charged with crimes should have their legal rights fully 2007-08 1,132,768 respected, including to a fair trial. We regularly make 2008-09 1,494,126 representations to the Colombian Government on human rights. The know Before You Go campaign is self-funded by a percentage of the revenue generated from passport sales. The Know Before You campaign (KBYG) is Colombia: Trade Unions evaluated on a six monthly basis to ensure that targets are being met and that we are getting value for money. : To ask the Secretary of State for In 2008-09, the Know Before YouGo campaign achieved Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he a return on investment of 20:1 (against a target of 6:1). has received on the number of convictions secured in Through media campaigns in 2008-09, 64 per cent. of cases where trade unionists in Colombia have all UK adults were reached an average of 2.3 times a disappeared. [297704] month. Departmental Telephone Services Chris Bryant: Many vulnerable groups, including trade unionists, face constant violence and intimidation in Colombia. Every murder, threat or forced disappearance Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for of a trade unionist or human rights defender is one too Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the many. We call on the Colombian Government to do answer of 28 October 2009 to the hon. Member for everything they can to ensure that those in Colombia Winchester, Official Report, column 381W, on who fight to defend human rights are able to do their departmental telephone services, how many call work safely and without fear, and that the perpetrators handlers are employed to operate his Department’s of crimes against them are pursued and held accountable travel advice telephone information line. [298625] for their actions. Chris Bryant: The call centre, operated by The level of impunity in Colombia is of real concern Teleperformance, utilises a rotational shift pattern. At which is why the UK has committed £250,000 to projects any one time, at least six call handlers are available to to help tackle this particular problem. answer calls relating to Foreign and Commonwealth Office travel advice. The shift pattern is under constant Departmental Publicity review, and is amended according to demand. In periods of high pressure, on-call staff are available to reinforce Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign those already available and Commonwealth Affairs with which countries his Diplomatic Service: Databases Department has liaised about the Know Before You Go campaign. [298413] Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the Chris Bryant: The Know Before You Go (KBYG) answer of 14 July 2009, Official Report, column 334W, campaign is aimed at providing travel guidance to British on the Locate system, if he will place in the Library a nationals before they travel to their destinations. As copy of the audit of the system undertaken in March such the KBYG campaign itself is targeted at UK 2009. [298415] audiences and does not directly involve other country participation within the UK. However, to ensure the Chris Bryant: No. The audit was simply a process to KBYG messages are relevant, and to help in producing collate feedback on Locate from our network of overseas bespoke media campaigns to reach our key target audiences, posts and was for internal purposes only. It is not we often require feedback from our overseas posts presented in a formal audit format. which may involve liaison with the host country. The Department could obtain this information from its UK Hezbollah Departments and 250 overseas posts only at disproportionate cost. Mr. Dismore: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign reports he has received on the extent to which and Commonwealth Affairs how much money his Hezbollah has rearmed in south Lebanon; and if he Department has spent on the Know Before You Go will make a statement. [296610] campaign in each year since its inception in 2001. [298414] Mr. Ivan Lewis: Hezbollah have themselves claimed that they have rearmed in South Lebanon. However, Chris Bryant: Spending on the Know Before You Go there have not been any independently corroborated campaign since 2001 is as follows: reports. 159W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 160W

This remains a serious concern. We expect a further embassy in Pristina will also conduct its own monitoring report from the United Nations on recent security on election day, consisting of an estimated 20 members incidents in southern Lebanon during their regular of staff (UK-based and locally engaged staff, including report on the implementation of UN Security Council volunteers from other British embassies in the region). Resolution 1701 on 10 November. We continue to call We are currently in discussions with the International upon all parties to implement UN Security Council Civilian Office in Kosovo to ensure that we co-ordinate Resolution 1701 fully. our activity with that planned by other organisations and embassies. Honduras: Human Rights Middle East: Armed Conflict Mr. Tom Clarke: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps his Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Department takes to monitor the human rights and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports he has situation in Honduras. [296813] received of allegations of vandalism by Palestinians of (a) synagogues and (b) other structures in settlements Chris Bryant: We are concerned about reports of in Gaza evacuated by the government of Israel in 2005; human rights violations in the Honduras since the whether he has made representations to the political crisis began in June—in particular the growing governments of Arab countries on this matter since restrictions imposed on the Honduran population since 2005; and if he will make a statement. [R] [298349] President Zelaya’s return to Tegucigalpa on 21 September 2009 Mr. Ivan Lewis: We have not recently received specific We continue to monitor the situation through discussions reports of such allegations of vandalism by Palestinians with those EU Partners who have embassies in Tegucigalpa in Gaza. and with UK-based non-governmental organisations operating in Honduras. UK officials from our embassy Pakistan: Religious Freedom in Guatemala City have visited Tegucigalpa periodically since the crisis began, most recently between 21 September Lembit Öpik: To ask the Secretary of State for and 2 October 2009. A Mission representing the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what monitoring Organisation of American States Inter-American his Department has undertaken of (a) compliance Commission on Human Rights visited Honduras last with international human rights standards and (b) month. We await the report of their visit. instances of religious persecution in Pakistan. [297216] We hope that the signing, by representatives of President Mr. Ivan Lewis: We are encouraging human rights Zelaya and the de facto government, of an accord on 30 reform through our regular dialogue with the Government October will lead to the establishment of a power of Pakistan, both bilaterally and through the European sharing government, and a return to full democratic, Union. It is a vital part of our commitment to support constitutional order and respect for human rights in the the Government of Pakistan in building a prosperous country. and stable society based on parliamentary democracy Israel: Foreign Relations and the rule of law. Along with our EU colleagues, we regularly raise our Mr. Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign concerns with the Government of Pakistan over the and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he has taken to situation of human rights and religious minorities. The develop UK relations with Israel during the last 12 most recent EU demarche called upon the government months; what such steps he plans to take in the next six of Pakistan to promote religious tolerance, to protect freedom of expression and to reform discriminatory months; and if he will make a statement. [298347] legislation such as the blasphemy laws. Mr. Ivan Lewis: Israel is a close ally of the UK and we Syria have regular productive exchanges at all levels, going far beyond relations between governments. Our political Mr. Davey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign relations allow us to address openly issues both of and Commonwealth Affairs (1) whether he has made common concern and where we disagree. Most recently, an assessment of the conditions in which Kamal on 27 October, I met the Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister al-Labwani is being detained in Syria; and if he will Danny Ayalon. We will continue to foster this relationship make a statement; [296471] and use it to further the interests of both countries and the wider region. (2) whether he has received reports on the disappearance of human rights lawyer Haythem Kosovo: Elections al-Maleh in Syria on 17 October 2009; and if he will make a statement; [296472] Mr. Moore: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign (3) what recent assessment he has made of Syria’s and Commonwealth Affairs what (a) funding and (b) record on human rights, with particular reference to personnel the Government have provided to support (a) civil and (b) political rights; and if he will make a the monitoring of the municipal elections in Kosovo; statement; [296473] and if he will make a statement. [297623] (4) what recent reports he has received on (a) numbers of people detained by the Syrian government Chris Bryant: The UK will contribute two short-term and (b) compliance by the Syrian government with the observers to the European Network of Election Monitoring International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights in Officials (ENEMO) Observation Mission. Our British respect of such people; [296474] 161W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 162W

(5) what discussions he has had with his EU to the UK’s Caribbean Overseas Territories and Bermuda, counterparts on the EU-Syria Euro-Mediterranean who visit TCI regularly but are based elsewhere in the Association Agreement in relation to Syria’s human region or in the UK. rights record; and if he will make a statement; [296475] (6) by what mechanisms the EU-Syria Euro- USA: Terrorism Mediterranean Association Agreement may be suspended in circumstances in which human rights Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for violations are identified. [296476] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what information his Department has received from the US David Miliband: Syria’s human rights record is a administration in respect of the coroner’s reports on cause for concern. In the past year we have seen a the British citizens killed in the 11 September 2001 worrying deterioration. Critics of the Government, attacks in the United States; and whether he has including those who call for peaceful democratic reform, received any representations from the families of and some individuals who have posted dissenting comments British victims of the attacks in respect of the on internet blogs, have been imprisoned. Disappearances, circumstances that caused their death. [298360] travel bans and arbitrary detention are increasingly common. There are reports of torture during interrogation Mr. Ivan Lewis: The US coroner/authorities were and deaths in police custody. We do not know how unable to perform autopsies as in the majority of the many people are in detention but we continue to press cases very little or none of the victim’s remains were Syria to abide by its international obligations on human recovered. Where identifiable remains were recovered, rights. the cause of death was recorded on the death certificate as blunt trauma. If no remains were found, the cause of I share the hon. Member’s concern about the continued death was recorded as physical injuries (body not found). imprisonment of Dr. Labwani. He is currently held in If remains were found at a later date, the cause of death Adra prison in Damascus in the same conditions as would be amended to blunt trauma. other prisoners, which are poor and involve sharing a cell. Dr. Labwani also suffers from serious medical We have not received any representations from the condition which, given his medical expertise, he is reportedly families of British victims about the circumstances that treating himself having managed to obtain the necessary caused their death. medication. I am also concerned at the recent arrest of lawyer Haythem al-Maleh and, as we made clear in a Foreign BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS and Commonwealth Office press statement on 19 October Apprentices 2009, we call on the Syrian Government to release him. I have raised my concerns with the Syrian Foreign Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Minister of State, Minister. Our embassy in Damascus, working with Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how other EU missions, continues to press the Syrians to many apprentices did not obtain work-based improve conditions in general as well as raising the placements during the academic year 2008-09. [295999] cases of Dr. al-Labwani, Mr. al-Maleh and others of Kevin Brennan: Work experience is an important aspect concern. of all apprenticeships. The Government do not collect When the EU-Syria Association Agreement is in data at a national level about apprentices who have not force, we will ensure that we use the dialogue established been successful in gaining a work placement. to press for action. Respect for human rights is an essential element of the agreement. The agreement provides Broadband that where a party considers that the other party is in breach of it obligations under the agreement it may take Tim Farron: To ask the Minister of State, appropriate measures which could include suspension Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what or termination of the Association Agreement. estimate he has made of the number of (a) rural and (b) non-rural households that do not have access to broadband. [293203] Turks and Caicos Islands Mr. Timms: The matter raised is the responsibility of Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for the independent regulator, the Office of Communications Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs for how many (Ofcom), which is accountable to Parliament rather advisers to the Turks and Caicos Islands his than Ministers. Accordingly, I have asked the chief Department provides funding; what the cost to the executive of Ofcom to reply directly to the hon. Member. public purse is of the annual salaries of such advisers; Copies of the chief executive’s letter will be placed in and if he will make a statement. [298641] the Libraries of the House. Business: South West Chris Bryant: The number of UK funded advisers in the Turks and Caicos Islands (TCI) is not constant. At Julia Goldsworthy: To ask the Minister of State, present, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is funding Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how four advisers to provide advice in TCI solely for that many businesses in each location in the South West Territory. One is on loan from the Department for have received assistance from the South West Regional Business, Innovation and Skills. The others visit TCI for Development Agency’s small business loan fund; and short periods, and are not therefore paid an annual how much on average each such business received. salary. The FCO also funds advisers to provide advice [297858] 163W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 164W

Ms Rosie Winterton: South West RDA facilitated the the economy, the industry has benefited from the formation of the South West Loans Fund which is Government’s “Real Help for Business Now” initiative, funded jointly by South West RDA and European including: Regional Development Fund (ERDF) monies. In the The Enterprise Finance Guarantee Scheme: enabling banks to first six months of operation, nine businesses have lend an extra £1.3 billion to small and medium-sized businesses received assistance (three in Cornwall; two in Devon; with viable business plans that can not access normal commercial two in Somerset; one in Wiltshire and one in Bristol). lending; The average level of grant provided is £107,089. A Extra lending capacity: made available through the European further five offers of finance are in place with an average Investment Bank; value of £84,000. The Working Capital Scheme: provides guarantees to banks for existing business lending, so freeing up more capital for new The fund provides loans to growth or growth potential loans; businesses in the South West which have viable business Up to six months’ Trade Credit Insurance Top-Up, backed by proposals but who are unable to secure all the finance the Government and available for businesses where cover has they need from traditional commercial finance sources. been reduced due to the recession. The Government would shortly appoint a Chief Construction Adviser to lead the low carbon review of Construction: Government Assistance the Construction Industry to ensure the industry is “fit for purpose” for delivering a low carbon future. The Mr. Peter Ainsworth: To ask the Minister of State, Chief Construction Adviser will also chair a new Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (1) Construction Category Board, which will build on the what financial support the Government have offered to work of the existing Public Sector Construction Clients the construction industry during the current economic Forum, to oversee the implementation and further the downturn; and if he will make a statement; [298404] development of best value in Government construction (2) what recent assessment he has made of the procurement. contribution of the construction industry to the Departmental Information and Communications economy; and if he will make a statement; [298405] Technology (3) what steps the Government are taking to support the construction industry; and if he will make a Grant Shapps: To ask the Minister of State, statement. [298406] Department for Business, Innovation and Skills with which organisations his Department and its Ian Lucas: The Government recognise the importance predecessors have had exclusivity agreements relating of the Construction Industry to the economy. In 2007 to information technology (a) hardware and (b) the construction industry, including contracting, products software in each of the last five years. [298365] and services, accounted for 9 per cent. of GVA. Construction contracting by itself contributed 6 per Mr. Timms: While the Department’s main IT cent. of GVA. These figures are based on the Annual infrastructure services are provided through agreements Business inquiry published by ONS in June 2009, which with Fujitsu Services, covering desktop services, web is the latest data source the Department has at hand. infrastructure services, and document management, these The public sector is especially important to the construction agreements are not exclusive. The Department also has industry. Some 30 per cent. of all construction work is in place alternative framework contracts with a number procured by the public sector, rising to 40 per cent. if of other IT suppliers (following competitive tendering) PFI projects are included. and also has access to a number of OGC framework In order to help preserve jobs and skills, at the time of contracts should specific and specialised services be the 2008 pre-Budget report the Government announced required. that it was bringing forward £3 billion of capital expenditure from financial year 2010-11 to financial years 2008-09 Departmental Internet and 2009-10, to be spent on motorways, schools, GPs’ surgeries, flood defences and improving the energy efficiency Adam Afriyie: To ask the Minister of State, of the existing housing stock. Department for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer of 26 October 2009, Official In addition, in the Budget the Chancellor announced Report, column 116W, on departmental internet, what a £600 million cash injection for the housing market to accounts are maintained by his Department; help kick-start stalled projects and to build more energy and what estimate he has made of the cost of efficient homes, including £50 million to modernise maintaining and updating each such account in armed forces’ accommodation. 2009-10. [296856] The Construction Industry like other sectors has benefited from the Government’s recapitalisation of the Mr. McFadden: The Department for Business, Innovation banks and the restoration of stability to the financial and Skills manages three Twitter accounts: @bisgovuk; sector. The UK is the first country in the world to have @digitalbritain; and @BIS_Science negotiated legally binding lending commitments with The estimated cost of staff time in maintaining and banks receiving state support, and both RBS and the updating all three accounts is £3,175 a year. The task is Lloyd’s Banking Group have committed to additional the shared responsibility of the Department’s Digital net lending over the next 12 months. Communications team as part of their overall range of The Construction Industry is dominated by Small duties and the total effort is estimated as half an hour and Medium Sized Enterprises. Like other sectors of per day. No staff are assigned to Twitter work specifically. 165W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 166W

Departmental Responsibilities public relations, public affairs and marketing agencies in each year since its establishment; to which firms such Adam Afriyie: To ask the Minister of State, payments were made; for what services each such Department for Business, Innovation and Skills payment was made; and what the value was of each pursuant to the answer of 12 October 2009, Official such payment. [289780] Report, column 650W, on ministerial responsibility, how many hours per week and what proportion of his Ms Rosie Winterton: The following table gives a full working time the Minister for Digital Britain spent breakdown of payments to external public relations, discharging his ministerial duties as Minister for marketing and public affairs agencies made since 2002.1 Digital Britain. [296857] EEDA has an in-house team that manage the corporate Mr. Timms: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I communications of EEDA. However, we do use agencies gave on 12 October 2009, Official Report, column 650W. to provide support across EEDA’s wide range of activities and services on a project basis. This is to help publicise East of England Development Agency: Consultants EEDA’s full range of support services to businesses in the region, support major campaigns to promote services Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Minister of State, and products and assist in production of key publications Department for Business, Innovation and Skills with including the Regional Economic Strategy (RES). The reference to the answer of 1 May 2008, Official Report, majority of the agencies used provide marketing support. column 574W, on the East of England Development 1 2002 is the earliest we are able to provide a fall breakdown from. Agency: Fishburn Hedges, how much the East of Please note, these figures have been extracted from financial England Development Agency has paid to external records and are excluding VAT.

Supplier name 2002/03 (£) 2003/04 (£) 2004/05 (£) 2005/06 (£) 2006/07 (£) 2007/08 (£) 2008/09 (£) Service

Band & Brown 17,400 7,050 39,235 26,164 734 — — Marketing support for (formerly Barker EEDA’s business support Johnson Peal) campaigns and regional promotion. Black Orchid ————15,265——Marketingsupport for Marketing Ltd. major business event. Camargue — — 12,604 43,849 — — — Marketing support for business support campaign Communications ————87,574200,583 323,828 Marketing support for Management development of major business campaigns including TakeITon - an IT support campaign, Business finance products including Grants for Research and Development and other business support products Different 196,525 88,615 —————Marketingsupport for Advertising Ltd. regional advertising campaign Direct Approach 10,545 — — 280 — — — Marketing support for Design & Marke EEDA publications including annual reports Fishburn Hedges — — 30,107 110,511 224,818 61,153 66,444 Public affairs and project specific marketing support including major business support event Flag ————8,28510,765Marketingandwriting Communication support for EEDA Ltd. publications IF ——————10,000Marketingsupport for Communications business support campaign John Turner — 70 133 14,631 16,832 25,943 24,320 Marketing support for Direct Marketing mailings to businesses and public partners Lillian May — — — 27,237 43,485 4,570 Marketing support for Design EEDA publications Linstock — — — 47,822 105,614 156,965 60,224 Marketing support for Communications EEDA’s spatial economy Ltd. programme including transport and regional cities east Markettiers 4DC —————9,075—Marketingsupport for Running the Gauntlet business campaign Media ————10,6096,2949,501Marketingsupport for Communications EEDA publications, business support and carbon cutting campaign Media Matters 23,288 100 —————Marketingsupport 167W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 168W

Supplier name 2002/03 (£) 2003/04 (£) 2004/05 (£) 2005/06 (£) 2006/07 (£) 2007/08 (£) 2008/09 (£) Service

Milk no Sugar — 2,750 —————Regional marketing support Mission 21 — 30,228 —————PRsupport for regional ideas campaign Nexus — — 37,599 — — — — Marketing support Omobono Ltd. 288,201 301,849 339,778 188,000 — 903 1,242 Marketing support for various business support campaigns, including Demand Broadband PoulsenSelleck—————6,795108,433 Marketing support for production of RES, Insight East intelligence centre and Business Map campaign to help simplify business support Project PR — 32,186 1,900 — — — — PR and media relations support Proof ——————3,147Writing support for EEDA Communications website Red Hat Creative ————20,73844,56420,570Writing support for Limited business campaigns Sherry Design — — — 8,094 6,041 — — Marketing support for Limited Regional Cities East Shorthose — — — 72,402 49,679 41,094 — Marketing support for Russell promotion of EU funding opportunities SmithUKLtd.—————24,4799,498Marketingsupport for production of the RES and annual report Taylor-made ————20,00040,1504,800Writing support Communications WAR — — 11,500 — — — — Marketing support for international business services Total 535,958 462,848 472,124 555,979 535,958 780,475 642,007 Grand total 3,985,349.66

Fireworks http://www.dius.gov.uk/news_and_speeches/press_releases/~/ media/publications/L/LSC_GRANT_LETTER_ FINAL_18_NOV Mr. Amess: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what legislation Estimated spend for all adults in 2009-10, through regulates the sale of fireworks over the internet; and if the Adult Learner Responsive (ALR) budget is £259 he will make a statement. [298462] million for full level 2 qualifications and £379 million for full level 3 qualifications. Kevin Brennan: The same legislation applies to internet Within the ALR budget we provide full funding for sales as applies to retail sales. Companies selling fireworks adults to gain their first full level 2 and full level 3 (for over the internet either deliver to a pick-up point, or to those aged 19 to 25 years) qualification so that they do the buyer by special carrier; they are not allowed to not have to pay course fees. deliver through the Royal Mail. The actual amount spent at each level and on particular age groups will depend on learner and throughout the Further Education: Finance year.

Stephen Williams: To ask the Minister of State, Higher Education Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how much of the adult further education budget managed Mr. Evans: To ask the Minister of State, Department by the Learning and Skills Council in 2009-10 is for Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what estimate he planned to be allocated to (a) adult Level 2 and adult has made of (a) the greatest, (b) the lowest and (c) first Level 2 courses, (b) adult first Level 2 and adult the average number of hours spent by an first Level 3 courses, (c) adult Level 2 and adult first undergraduate in contact with teaching staff at Level 2 courses for 19 to 24 year olds and (d) adult institutions of tertiary education in each year since Level 3 and adult first Level 3 courses for 19 to 24 year 1997; [298417] olds. [296876] (2) how many hours of contact time with education staff his Department uses to define full-time study in Kevin Brennan: The Learning and Skills Council Grant institutions of tertiary education; [298418] Letter 2009-10 sent in November 2008 sets out planned (3) what criteria institutions of tertiary education use expenditure across our funding priorities based on estimated to define student-faculty contact time. [298419] volumes of activity. A copy of this letter is available publicly at the Mr. Lammy: Full-time higher education is not defined following address: in terms of hours of contact time between students and 169W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 170W academic staff and no information is held centrally on University of Sunderland contact hours for higher education courses. University of Surrey It is for higher education institutions (HEIs) as University of Teesside autonomous organisations to define the amount of Thames Valley University student contact time with teaching staff, including lectures, Trinity Laban Conservatoire of Music and Dance group or individual tuition, online or distance learning; University College London and other planned discussion time about academic work. University of Warwick Contact time will also vary depending on the subject, University of West of England, Bristol course content and nature of delivery. University of Westminster As we set out in the HE Framework, “Higher University of Winchester Ambitions,” published on 3 November, the Government expect HEIs to make transparent information available University of Wolverhampton for students, so they have a better understanding of Writtle College what to expect before they choose a course. This information should include the number and nature of the contact York St. John University. hours they should have for each course, the amount of personal learning which will be required, and the academic Higher Education: Intellectual Property support which will be available from staff. Higher Education: Historic Buildings Mr. Wallace: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent research his Department has undertaken into Mr. Frank Field: To ask the Minister of State, assistance given to universities in exploiting intellectual Department for Business, Innovation and Skills which property. [297859] universities received Higher Education Funding Council for England funds to support old and historic Mr. Lammy: In the year since my hon. Friend last buildings as a fixed targeted allocation in the latest asked me this question, I am pleased to say that the period for which figures are available; and if he will Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and its make a statement. [298723] predecessor have published Professor Paul Wellings’ report on Intellectual Property and Research Benefits, Mr. Lammy: The institutions eligible for this funding and HEFCE have released an independent Evaluation stream in 2009/10 are: of the Effectiveness and Role of Third Stream Funding. Anglia Ruskin University A report on Metrics for the Evaluation of Knowledge Aston University Transfer Activities at Universities, funded by HEFCE Bath Spa University and the Research Councils, has been published by Library University of Bedfordshire House. The Higher Education Business Community Birkbeck College Interaction Survey for 2007-08 was released in July University of Birmingham 2009 showing a continued increase in income from IP. This has been supported in England by the Higher Birmingham City University Education Innovation Fund. Bishop Grosseteste University College, Lincoln University of Bolton Higher Education: Peterborough University of Bradford University of Brighton Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Minister of State, University of Bristol Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how Brunei University many people aged (a) 21 years and under and (b) over Buckinghamshire New University 21 years old in each socio-economic group resident in University of Cambridge (i) Peterborough constituency and (ii) Peterborough City Council area attended university in each of the Institute of Cancer Research last five years. [297799] Canterbury Christ Church University University of Central Lancashire Mr. Lammy: The latest available information from Central School of Speech and Drama the Higher Education Statistics Agency is shown in University of Chester tables 1 and 2. University of Chichester The figures are for full-time undergraduate entrants City University, London as socio-economic class information is not available for University of Cumbria part-time higher education students. Figures are provided De Montfort University for entrants aged under 21, and 21 and over, as socio- University of Derby economic class data has a different basis for these two distinct age groups. Socio-economic class is based on University of Durham occupation information: those aged under 21 provide University of Salford their parent’s occupation, and those aged 21 and over University of Sheffield provide their own occupation. Sheffield Hallam University Figures for the 2008/09 academic year will be available University of Southampton from the Higher Education Statistics Agency in January Southampton Solent University 2010. 171W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 172W

Table 1: Full-time undergraduate entrants from Peterborough parliamentary constituency1, by age and socio-economic classification2, UK higher education institutions3, academic years 2003/04 to 2007/08 Socio-economic classification 2003/04 2004/05 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 <21 21+ <21 21+ <21 21+ <21 21+ <21 21+

Higher managerial and professional 65 5 60 5 50 0 50 5 50 5 occupations Lower managerial and professional occupations 75 5 65 5 95 10 80 5 85 5 Intermediate occupations 40 10 40 10 55 5 50 5 40 10 Small employers and own account workers 15 0 25 0 20 0 20 0 35 5 Lower supervisory and technical occupations 25 0 10 0 10 0 15 0 20 0 Semi-routine occupations 40 5 40 10 55 5 50 5 30 10 Routine occupations 25 0 20 5 15 0 25 0 15 5 Total 280 25 255 35 295 30 285 25 270 45 Missing4 80 70 85 65 75 60 85 45 105 65 1 The table does not include entrants where the constituency of the student cannot be established due to missing or invalid information. 2 This field collects the socio-economic classification of students participating in HE if 21 or over at the start of their course or parental classification if under 21. 3 Figures exclude the Open university due to inconsistencies in their coding of entrants across the time series. 4 Covers students whose socio-economic classification was missing, not classified or ‘Never worked and long-term unemployed’. Note: Figures are based on a HESA standard registration population and have been rounded up or down to the nearest five, therefore components may not sum to totals. Source: Higher Education Statistics Agency. Table 2: Full-time undergraduate entrants from Peterborough local authority1, by age and socio-economic classification2, UK higher education institutions3, academic years 2003/04 to 2007/08 Socio-economic classification 2003/04 2004/05 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 <21 21+ <21 21+ <21 21+ <21 21+ <21 21+

Higher managerial and professional 125 10 100 5 110 0 100 5 115 5 occupations Lower managerial and professional occupations 130 10 120 10 165 15 140 10 155 10 Intermediate occupations 70 10 60 15 85 15 65 10 80 20 Small employers and own account workers 30 0 35 0 30 0 35 0 45 5 Lower supervisory and technical occupations 30 0 20 5 20 0 30 5 30 5 Semi-routine occupations 55 10 65 10 75 20 65 15 50 20 Routine occupations 30 0 20 5 20 5 30 5 20 5 Total 465 45 415 55 505 55 470 45 500 70 Missing4 120 120 125 115 120 105 135 90 180 120 1 The table does not include entrants where the constituency of the student cannot be established due to missing or invalid information. 2 This field collects the socio-economic classification of students participating in HE if 21 or over at the start of their course or parental classification if under 21. 3 Figures exclude the Open university due to inconsistencies in their coding of entrants across the time series. 4 Covers students whose socio-economic classification was missing, not classified or ‘Never worked and long-term unemployed’. Note: Figures are based on a HESA standard registration population and have been rounded up or down to the nearest five, therefore components may not sum to totals. Source: Higher Education Statistics Agency.

Learning and Skills Council for England: recent assessment he has made of the (a) contribution Correspondence to the economy of the UK lime manufacturing industry and (b) the economic viability of that Mr. Oaten: To ask the Minister of State, Department industry; and if he will make a statement. [298372] for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the Mr. Timms: While the Department’s main IT answer of 21 October 2009, Official Report, column infrastructure services are provided through agreements 1523W, on further education: Hampshire, if he will with Fujitsu Services, covering desktop services, web ensure that copies of letters from the Learning and infrastructure services, and document management, these Skills Council responding to Parliamentary Questions agreements are not exclusive. The Department also has are always sent to the Official Report for publication. in place alternative framework contracts with a number [298685] of other IT suppliers, (following competitive tendering), and also has access to a number of OGC framework Kevin Brennan: I can confirm that letters from the contracts should specific and specialised services be Learning and Skills Council (LSC) responding to required. parliamentary questions should always be placed promptly in the House of Commons Library. Due to an Post Offices: Public Consultation administrative error the answer to which the hon. Member refers was placed in the House of Commons Library on Mr. Djanogly: To ask the Minister of State, 3 November 2009. I have asked the LSC to review its Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what procedures to prevent a recurrence. the timetable of the new proposed consultation on the future provision of services by the Post Office will be. Manufacturing Industries: Minerals [298560] Mr. McFadden: We are aiming to launch this consultation John Thurso: To ask the Minister of State, in late November/early December. This will be a full Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what 12-week consultation. 173W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 174W

Research: Energy Mr. Lammy: The Student Loans Company has released figures to show the levels of processing and payment of Mr. Andrew Smith: To ask the Minister of State, Student Support in England for the 2009/10 academic Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how year. The information is available on the Student Loans much funding from the public purse has been allocated Company website and includes information on to research into fusion energy in each of the last five “applications approved with interim assessment”. years; and how much funding he plans to allocate for The figures for new and returning students in this such purposes in each of the next five years. [298000] category stand at 35,000 as at 25 October 2009. Some changes to the way applications are processed Mr. Lammy: The Government provide support for have been introduced for the 2009/10 application processing nuclear fusion research in the UK through the Engineering cycle which means there is no comparable data for the and Physical Sciences Research Council (EPSRC). The previous five years. EPSRC funding for fusion research over the last five years was: Students: Loans £ million Andrew Stunell: To ask the Minister of State, 2004/05 19.4 Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how 2005/06 17.3 many people in each age group resident in (a) each 2006/07 22.3 local authority area in the North West and (b) 2007/08 21.7 England had not repaid their student loan at the latest 2008/09 32.6 date for which figures are available. [296433]

Funding in 2009/10 is expected to total about £25 Mr. Lammy: Borrowers become liable to repay their million. Funding for subsequent years will depend on loans in the April after they leave their course (the the outcome of spending reviews and the quality of statutory repayment due date, SRDD). After that date science case proposals. those with earnings of over £15,000 will repay, usually Euratom also fund fusion research in the UK through by deductions from salary. Those liable to repay who the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority. The have not yet made a repayment will include borrowers UK also contributes indirectly to the Euratom European whose earnings are below the repayment threshold, fusion research programme through its payments to the have gone on to further study or are doing voluntary EU budget. work. Royal Mail: Pay The tables cover income contingent loan borrowers past SRDD with a known repayment or non-repayment Colin Burgon: To ask the Minister of State, position by whether or not they have made a repayment. Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what Tables containing the requested information have criteria were applied to the award of a bonus to the been placed in the Library. Chief Executive of Royal Mail in 2008. [298312] Andrew Stunell: To ask the Minister of State, Mr. McFadden: The criteria for the bonus award to Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how the chief executive of Royal Mail in 2008/09 were profit much has been deducted in student loan repayments and service quality. from the salaries of individuals in each income group resident in (a) each local authority area in the North Colin Burgon: To ask the Minister of State, West and (b) England in each of the last five years. Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what [296434] the average bonus paid to Royal Mail staff at the lowest grade was in 2008. [298313] Mr. Lammy: Deductions from salaries are made when the borrower’s income is above £15,000 per year, £1,250 Mr. McFadden: Under Royal Mail’s Colleague Share per month or £288 per week. A borrower who starts scheme, each Royal Mail staff member received a work late in the tax year on an annual salary above stakeholder dividend payment of £400 in 2008/09. The £15,000 will have deductions made but may have earnings total cost of payments under the scheme was £70 million. during the tax year of less than £15,000. Royal Mail staff were also eligible to receive local Tables containing the requested information have productivity bonuses. My Department does not hold been placed in the Library. this information and I have therefore asked the chief executive of Royal Mail, Adam Crozier, to reply to you Train to Gain Programme direct. A copy of the response will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. Stephen Williams: To ask the Minister of State, Students: Grants Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how much of the Train to Gain budget managed by the Mr. Evennett: To ask the Minister of State, Learning and Skills Council in 2009-10 is planned to be Department for Business, Innovation and Skills how allocated to (a) adult Level 2 and adult first Level 2 many students have received provisional payments in courses, (b) adult first Level 2 and adult first Level 3 advance of full student support payments from Student courses, (c) adult Level 2 and adult first Level 2 Finance England in (a) the 2009/10 academic year and courses for 19 to 24 year olds and (d) adult Level 3 and (b) each of the five previous years. [294702] adult first Level 3 courses for 19 to 24 year olds. [296877] 175W Written Answers9 NOVEMBER 2009 Written Answers 176W

Kevin Brennan: The Grant Letter to the Learning and each academic year, setting out the rules and principles Skills Council for 2009-10 sent in November 2008 sets for funding through Train to Gain. Guidance for 2009/10 out planned expenditure across our funding priorities was issued on 23 January, and is regularly updated. The based on estimated volumes of activity. latest version is available on the LSC website. A copy of this letter is available publicly at the Geoff Russell, the chief executive of the LSC, sent following address: letters to all Train to Gain—contracted providers on 19 http://www.dius.gov.uk/news_and_speeches/press_releases/~/ June, informing them of their funding and contract media/publications/L/LSC_GRANT_LETTER_FINAL_19- arrangements for the 2009/10 academic year. Since then, NOV regional and local LSC partnership teams have been Estimated spend for all adults in 2009-10 through working closely with individual providers to finalise Train to Gain is £626 million on full level 2 and £161 their contract documentation, including maximum contract million on full level 3 qualifications. Funding through values. Train to Gain is prioritised on supporting adults in In addition, the LSC publishes regular guidance to employment to gain basic literacy and numeracy skills, employers and learners who access Train to Gain, including full level 2 and full level 3 qualifications. For 2009-10 in information on new flexibilities, funding that may be response to the economic downturn we have provided available and where to go for further information. This increased flexibilities for small and medium sized enterprises guidance is also available on the LSC website. to support retraining through access to funding for Work Experience units and part qualifications in areas described as business critical by Sector Skills Councils. Mr. Hands: To ask the Minister of State, Department The actual amount spent at each level and on particular for Business, Innovation and Skills what his age groups will depend on learner and employer demand Department’s definition is of a skilled internship; how throughout the year. many skilled internships his Department plans to Vocational Training: Finance create by (a) 2010, (b) 2011, (c) 2012, (d) 2013, (e) 2014 and (f) 2015; how long each skilled internship will last; and whether people on a skilled internship will David Taylor: To ask the Minister of State, be paid. [298942] Department for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of Mr. Lammy: By March 2010, 20,000 graduate internships guidance issued by the Learning and Skills Council to overall will have been created in the private, public and participants in the Train to Gain scheme enquiring third sectors to help young people develop the skills about their use of funds for the 2009-10 contract; and if they need to improve their employability. There will be he will make a statement. [291348] different models for these internships. Of these, up to 10,000 will be delivered in collaboration with the Federation Kevin Brennan [holding answer 16 September 2009]: of Small Businesses as part of Backing Young Britain. The Learning and Skills Council (LSC) is responsible These will last for 13 weeks and will be paid. There are for issuing national funding guidance to providers for no targets for the following years. 1MC Ministerial Corrections9 NOVEMBER 2009 Ministerial Corrections 2MC

National School of Government: Income Ministerial Corrections £ Organisation 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Monday 9 November 2009 Defence Storage and 3,940.98 0.00 2,500.00 Distribution Agency Defence Support Group 0.00 0.00 450.00 Department for Business, 533,439.83 636,858.63 1,094,762.88 Innovation and Skills CABINET OFFICE Department for Children, 770,205.47 702,053.29 737,187.63 Schools and Families National School of Government Department for Culture, Media 204,312.35 270,726.45 240,528.80 and Sport Department for Employment and 18,410.00 3,800.00 1,850.00 Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Learning (NI) (1) what the estimated running costs of the National Department for Environment, 789,963.79 816,484.64 592,635.09 School of Government are in 2009-10; [283581] Food and Rural Affairs (2) how much funding the Government is providing Department for International 1,295,474.76 1,683,721.55 1,735,146.65 to the National School of Government in 2009-10; Development Department for Regional 15,819.00 19,010.00 20,110.00 [283582] Development (NI) (3) how much the National School of Government Department for Social 259,753.28 111,723.69 14,207.07 received from each Government Department in Development, N. Ireland payment for courses for their staff in each of the last Department for Transport 565,741.01 521,764.10 498,985.41 three years. [283588] Department for Work and 399,109.84 796,729.52 1,477,014.74 Pensions [Official Report, 8 July 2009, Vol. 495, c. 825-31W.] Department of Culture, Arts and 3,998.99 0.00 425.00 Letter of correction from Tessa Jowell: Leisure NI Department of Education NI 18,605.00 14,740.00 146.00 Errors have been identified in the written answer Department of Energy and 0.00 0.00 12,904.00 given to the hon. Member for Chorley (Lindsey Hoyle) Climate Change on 8 July 2009. It has come to my attention that the Department of Enterprise, Trade 16,465.00 16,015.00 1,845.00 table included with the letter from the Principal and and Investment NI Chief Executive of the National School of Government Department of Finance & 127,356.06 42,680.28 49,710.60 contained a number of classification errors and other Personnel Northern Ireland inconsistencies. Department of Health 379,172.96 489,235.82 568,525.99 Department of Health Social 28,333.66 650.00 18,365.00 The National School of Government has checked the Services and Public Safety NI classification of the organisations and the correct table Department of the Environment 16,944.00 8,610.00 4,210.00 is as follows: (NI) Drinking Water Inspectorate 0.00 0.00 1,570.00 National School of Government: Income Driver and Vehicle Agency (NI) 1,125.00 0.00 0.00 £ Driver and Vehicle Licensing 142,469.64 111,404.55 110,443.70 Organisation 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Agency Accountant in Bankruptcy 0.00 6,295.00 6,900.00 30,089.26 22,323.00 42,775.00 Animal Health 3,125.00 21,192.00 29,000.00 Emergency Planning College 13,517.75 0.00 0.00 Army Training and Recruiting 0.00 75,000.00 0.00 Export Credits Guarantee 26,015.84 51,151.50 26,769.00 Agency Department Attorney-Generals Office 3,662.00 2,857.00 7,880.00 Fire Service College 11,793.50 8,620.00 4,520.00 Buying Solutions 38,781.06 16,906.00 5,658.40 Fisheries Research Services 7,980.00 10,901.00 1,525.00 Cabinet Office 695,382.05 746,434.78 704,425.27 Food and Environment Research 0.00 4,170.00 1,825.00 Central Office of Information 58,522.00 57,571.00 55,719.20 Agency Central Science Laboratory 2,100.00 6,995.00 6,715.00 Food Standards Agency 325,528.19 406,997.81 282,230.01 Centre for Applied Learning (NI) 14,608.00 34,669.79 17,275.00 Foreign and Commonwealth 975,577.45 993,019.34 1,452,446.94 Office Centre for Environment Fisheries 4,290.00 10,180.00 16,365.00 and Aquaculture Science Forestry Commission 31,575.50 65,366.00 78,434.86 Charity Commission 6,647.00 8,445.00 20,926.00 General Register Office 7,830.00 3,815.00 2,380.00 (Scotland) Child Support Agency 49,012.98 43,810.25 18,097.00 Government Actuary’s 370.00 370.00 6,750.00 Communities and Local 696,004.58 658,672.50 627,285.50 Department Government Companies House 13,594.00 12,544.00 12,767.50 Government Car and Despatch 1,980.00 5,360.00 1,000.00 Agency Criminal Justice System 655.00 957.50 3,750.00 Government Communication 29,150.00 19,525.00 5,675.00 Criminal Records Bureau 69,569.66 11,435.00 16,321.25 Bureau Crown Office 2,860.00 295.00 0.00 Government Communications 5,400.00 20,160.00 24,980.50 Crown Office and Procurator 32,445.00 15,135.50 14,185.00 Centre Fiscal Service Government Communications 104,196.09 177,503.93 198,401.70 Crown Prosecution Service 103,600.22 132,822.70 110,068.00 Headquarters Crown Solicitor’s Office for NI 825.00 300.00 640.00 Government Communications 30,705.32 19,141.56 22,863.78 Defence Bills Agency 0.00 0.00 19,200.00 Planning Directorate Defence Estates 87,731.27 2,850.00 5,130.00 Government Equalities Office 0.00 0.00 9,949.50 Defence Procurement Agency 1,550.00 0.00 0.00 Government Office for London 70,741.24 13,055.00 12,708.00 Defence Science and Technology 57,834.00 30,215.00 42,155.96 Government Office for 18,000.00 0.00 0.00 Laboratory Merseyside 3MC Ministerial Corrections9 NOVEMBER 2009 Ministerial Corrections 4MC

National School of Government: Income National School of Government: Income £ £ Organisation 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Organisation 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Government Office for the East 7,490.00 6,660.00 48,755.00 Office of Fair Trading 73,978.25 38,533.00 55,756.86 Midlands Office of Gas and Electricity 32,274.00 20,722.00 8,970.40 Government Office for the East 0.00 3,975.00 975.00 Markets of England Office of Government Commerce 112,563.69 136,065.35 146,958.60 Government Office for the North 1,860.00 16,197.10 3,800.00 Office of Rail Regulation 43,506.00 52,744.00 35,532.50 East Office of the First Minister and 6,070.29 1,889.50 585.00 Government Office for the North 105,279:84 125,066.19 104,368.29 Deputy First Minister (NI) West Office of the Legal Services 8,790.00 4,580.00 895.00 Government Office for the South 9,934.50 8,766.00 3,595.00 Complaints Commissioner East Office of the Public Guardian 4,183.00 12,443.00 18,901.00 Government Office for the South 29,900.27 18,010.00 4,015.00 West Office of Water Services 9,777.50 2,200.00 6,061.00 Government Office for the West 8,787.00 22,500.00 25,655.00 Offices of Court Funds, Official 0.00 0.00 2,235.00 Midlands Solicitor & Public Trustee Government Office for Yorkshire 0.00 2,783.50 11,350.00 Ordnance Survey 12,601.50 24,065.00 16,755.50 and the Humber Ordnance Survey of Northern 0.00 4,680.00 841.00 Government Skills 0.00 4,385.00 32,549.50 Ireland Health and Safety Commission 0.00 305.00 0.00 Pensions Transformation 1,500.00 0.00 0.00 Programme Health and Safety Executive 247,182.20 298,267.57 221,732.00 Pesticides Safety Directorate 805.00 450.00 0.00 Health and Safety Laboratory 6,746.00 1,700.00 6,525.00 Planning Inspectorate 4,164.00 18,295.00 51,036.00 Highways Agency 147,286.52 128,602.50 116,830.00 Postal Services Commission 12,755.00 64,548.50 51,648.00 Historic Scotland 3,728.00 2,495.00 4,102.50 (Postcomm) HM Courts Service 36,025.40 85,219.50 101,623.00 Prime Minister’s Delivery Unit 2,420.00 0.00 750.00 HM Inspectorate of Probation 0.00 0.00 10,000.00 Prime Minister’s Office 3,915.00 2,585.00 17,991.00 HM Land Registry 200,159.78 305,461.00 187,680.50 Prison Service College 2,720.00 0.00 0.00 HM Prison Service 186,780.94 325,205.71 340,630.61 Privy Council Office 36,865.00 17,850.00 4,100.00 HM Revenue and Customs 672,134.69 569,235.05 1,108,759.88 Public Prosecution Service (NI) 4,660.00 2,479.00 5,940.00 HM Treasury 438,574.84 428,926.99 566,797.00 Public Service Management 0.00 10,000.00 0.00 Home Office 1,333,578.42 1,059,906.73 1,328,925.68 Wales Identity and Passport Service 148,643.45 150,221.94 175,972.20 RAF High Wycombe 0.00 0.00 350.00 Insolvency Service 33,789.00 36,294.50 54,605.00 Regional Co-ordination Unit 0.00 15,766.67 4,000.00 Intellectual Property Office 44,333.24 79,059.75 114,944.08 Registers of Scotland 41,321.50 38,880.00 54,444.00 Jobcentre Plus 87,214.85 55,355.17 103,064.50 Revenue and Customs 25,220.00 72,941.50 53,264.00 Lands and Property Services 470.00 0.00 0.00 Prosecutions Office (NI) Royal Mint 2,050.00 2,350.00 350.00 Law Officers’ Departments 0.00 0.00 705.00 Royal Parks 12,214.50 8,175.00 10,740.00 Marine and Fisheries Agency 0.00 555.00 12,575.00 Rural Payments Agency 66,269.88 71,265.50 57,441.00 Maritime and Coastguard 26,624.25 17,717.50 14,329.00 Scotland Office 7,245.00 2,755.00 5,895.00 Agency Scottish Agricultural Science 2,475.00 2,425.00 4,345.00 Meat Hygiene Service 14,807.00 3,450.00 12,750.00 Agency Medicines and Health Care 17,336.80 7,872.00 31,809.50 Scottish Executive Health 1,445.00 0.00 0.00 Products Regulatory Agency Directorate Met Office 57,541.63 54,230.20 30,139.80 Scottish Fisheries Protection 0.00 1,580.00 10,395.00 Ministry of Defence 2,100,259.72 2,384,843.86 2,557,269.07 Agency Ministry of Defence - Defence 0.00 0.00 6,400.00 Scottish Information 0.00 0.00 3,005.00 Equipment and Support Commissioner Ministry of Defence Police and 0.00 0.00 9,722.72 Scottish Public Pensions Agency 11,275.05 12,825.00 19,360.49 Guarding Agency Serious Fraud Office 17,024.00 47,941.50 31,097.00 Ministry of Justice 510,574.76 721,903.11 681,247.05 Service Personnel and Veterans 0.00 1,025.00 2,000.00 National Archives 32,139.50 19,977.50 34,706.00 Agency National Archives of Scotland 0.00 990.00 270.00 Social Security Agency (NI) 1,737.50 0.00 0.00 National Offender Management 0 1,760.00 14,150.00 Specialist Procurement Services 0.00 95.00 0.00 Service Agency National Savings and 4,345.00 10,288.00 7,847.00 The Advocate General for 1,825.00 0.00 0.00 Investments Scotland Northern Ireland Civil Service 4,710.00 1,870.00 1,060.00 The Crown Estate 285.00 0.00 0.00 Northern Ireland Court Service 36,195.00 28,966.00 38,647.00 The National Assembly for 324,061.86 172,351.50 64,490.00 Northern Ireland Environment 355.00 95.00 3,000.00 Wales Agency The Pension Service 70,013.23 8,665.00 32,434.00 Northern Ireland Office 172,310.12 155,719.05 145,076.75 The Planning Service (NI) 0.00 95.00 125.00 Northern Ireland Prison Service 5,850.00 3,550.00 4,725.00 The Rent Service 34,092.10 10,990.00 16,013.00 Office for Criminal Justice 0.00 2,280.00 36,054.50 The Scottish Government 189,504.80 237,124.79 280,116.91 Reform The Scottish Parliament 17,805.00 6,356.00 14,754.00 Office for National Statistics 83,336.65 117,414.00 141,930.01 The Security Service 0.00 15,457.00 2,450.00 Office for Standards in 59,350.00 69,080.00 63,075.00 Transport Scotland 2,770.00 2,358.00 3,295.00 Education, Children’s Services and Skills Treasury Solicitor’s Department 218,860.65 255,764.75 230,353.50 Office of Climate Change 0.00 7,448.00 2,950.00 Tribunals Service 1,055.00 37,867.86 26,502.00 5MC Ministerial Corrections9 NOVEMBER 2009 Ministerial Corrections 6MC

National School of Government: Income [Official Report, 27 October 2009, Vol. 498, c. 155.] £ Letter of correction from Rosie Winterton: Organisation 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 An error has been identified in the oral answer given UK Border Agency 75,433.30 45,302.00 13,313.25 to the hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Shona McIsaac) UK Trade and Investment 96,541.83 42,649.75 87,350.82 on 27 October 2009. The full answer given was as United Kingdom Debt 1,065.00 500.00 0.00 follows. I have notified the MP of the error. Management Office United Kingdom Hydrographic 7,253.11 13,215.00 9,915.00 Office 15. Shona McIsaac (Cleethorpes) (Lab): What recent Valuation Office Agency 22,910.50 22,120.00 11,590.00 discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Vehicle and Operator Services 62,287.25 43,570.00 40,554.44 Culture, Media and Sport on rates of local authority Agency participation in the Government’s free swimming Vehicle Certification Agency 1,355.00 3,525.00 0.00 scheme. [295535] Veterinary Laboratories Agency 11,076.50 11,479.00 2,650.00 Veterinary Medicines Directorate 10,909.50 19,135.50 16,403.00 The Minister for Regional Economic Development and Wales Office 3,975.00 4,596.00 1,617.00 Co-ordination (Ms Rosie Winterton): There are regular Welsh Assembly Government 14,609.30 166,689.74 247,743.84 discussions across Departments on the free swimming Wilton Park 360.00 0.00 395.00 scheme. Of the 553 eligible local authorities, 260 are offering free swimming under the free swimming scheme, and 4.5 million people have used the programme across England. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT The correct answer should have been:

Free Swimming Scheme The Minister for Regional Economic Development and Co-ordination (Ms Rosie Winterton): There are regular 15. Shona McIsaac (Cleethorpes) (Lab): What recent discussions across Departments on the free swimming discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for scheme. Of the 353 eligible local authorities, 260 are Culture, Media and Sport on rates of local authority offering free swimming under the free swimming scheme, participation in the Government’s free swimming and 4.5 million people have used the programme across scheme. [295535] England.

ORAL ANSWERS

Monday 9 November 2009

Col. No. Col. No. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 1 CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT—continued Byron Review...... 9 Spoliation...... 2 Competitive Sport (Schools) ...... 11 Sport (Young People)...... 11 Davies Committee...... 3 Stonehenge Galleries...... 1 Football Association ...... 7 Topical Questions ...... 14 Football Stadiums...... 14 Illegal File Sharing...... 6 OLYMPICS ...... 19 Listed Buildings ...... 8 Budget ...... 19 Lottery Grants...... 10 Budget ...... 21 Overseas Tourists...... 13 Educational Materials...... 20 Product Placement ...... 4 Sex Industry...... 21 Public Houses (Closures) ...... 13 Site Landscaping...... 20 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Monday 9 November 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 4WS JUSTICE...... 8WS Higher Education Funding and Student Finance Body Orifice Security Scanners ...... 9WS (Review)...... 4WS Data Protection...... 8WS

TRANSPORT ...... 9WS DEFENCE...... 5WS National Policy Statement for Ports ...... 9WS Detention Policy ...... 5WS TREASURY ...... 1WS ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 6WS Corporate Taxation...... 2WS Environment Council...... 6WS ECOFIN...... 1WS Monetary Policy Committee ...... 4WS

HOME DEPARTMENT...... 7WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 10WS Communications Data Consultation...... 7WS Pension Protection System ...... 10WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Monday 9 November 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 162W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Apprentices...... 162W Vocational Training: Finance ...... 175W Broadband ...... 162W Work Experience...... 176W Business: South West ...... 162W Construction: Government Assistance...... 163W CABINET OFFICE...... 80W Departmental Information and Communications Childbirth ...... 80W Technology ...... 164W Civil Servants: Compensation ...... 80W Departmental Internet ...... 164W Death: Drugs ...... 81W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 165W Downing Street Budget...... 82W East of England Development Agency: Government Departments: Data Protection ...... 82W Consultants...... 165W Honours: Banks...... 83W Fireworks...... 167W Ministers...... 83W Further Education: Finance...... 167W National School of Government...... 83W Higher Education...... 168W Poverty...... 83W Higher Education: Historic Buildings ...... 169W Vacancies ...... 84W Higher Education: Intellectual Property ...... 170W Young People: Fathers ...... 85W Higher Education: Peterborough ...... 170W Learning and Skills Council for England: CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES ...... 104W Correspondence ...... 171W Academies...... 104W Manufacturing Industries: Minerals...... 171W Academies: Sponsorship ...... 104W Post Offices: Public Consultation...... 172W CAFCASS: Finance...... 105W Research: Energy ...... 173W Children: Communication Skills ...... 106W Royal Mail: Pay...... 173W Children: Day Care ...... 106W Students: Grants ...... 173W Children: Protection...... 107W Students: Loans ...... 174W European Schools ...... 107W Train to Gain Programme ...... 174W European Union: Primary Education ...... 108W Col. No. Col. No. CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES—continued DEFENCE—continued Families: Prison ...... 108W Armoured Fighting Vehicles ...... 40W GCSE ...... 109W Army: Manpower ...... 40W GCSE: Birmingham...... 109W Defence: Scotland ...... 41W Learning and Skills Improvement Service: Departmental Domestic Visits ...... 43W Finance...... 110W Departmental Electronic Equipment ...... 44W Primary Education: Pupils ...... 110W Departmental Finance ...... 45W Pupil Exclusions...... 111W Departmental Pay ...... 45W Pupils: Bullying...... 111W Departmental Travel ...... 46W Pupils: Special Educational Needs ...... 113W Nuclear Submarines...... 46W Schools ...... 113W Reserve Forces ...... 46W Schools: Astrophysics...... 114W Reserve Forces: Manpower ...... 46W Schools: Standards...... 115W Reserve Forces: Training ...... 46W Secondary Education: Pupils ...... 116W Review of Defence Airfields...... 47W Teachers: Derbyshire...... 115W Territorial Army: Deployment ...... 47W Trust Schools ...... 116W Trident ...... 47W United Learning Trust ...... 117W Unmanned Air Vehicles ...... 48W

COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 72W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 143W Council Housing...... 72W Biofuels...... 143W Council Housing: Property Transfer ...... 73W Carbon Emissions...... 144W Departmental Air Travel ...... 73W Coal ...... 144W Fraud ...... 73W Departmental Postal Services...... 145W Housing Associations: Insurance ...... 73W Electricity...... 146W Housing Corporation: Public Relations ...... 74W Energy: Housing ...... 147W Housing: Sustainable Development ...... 74W Energy Supply...... 145W Non-Domestic Rates: Ports...... 75W Fuel Poverty...... 148W Non-Domestic Rates: Public Houses ...... 75W Hydrogen ...... 148W Non-Domestic Rates: Valuation ...... 75W Microgeneration: Government Assistance...... 149W Playing Fields: Planning Permission ...... 76W Natural Gas: Prices...... 150W Property Development: Green Belt ...... 76W Nuclear Power Stations...... 150W Refuges: Domestic Violence...... 76W Oil Fired Power Stations ...... 150W Rented Housing ...... 77W Renewable Energy...... 152W Social Rented Housing: Chorley ...... 78W Renewable Energy: Developing Countries...... 151W Social Rented Housing: Foreigners ...... 78W Warm Front Scheme ...... 153W Social Rented Housing: Rents...... 79W Warm Front Scheme: Mobile Homes...... 153W Temporary Accommodation ...... 79W Wind Power ...... 153W Waste Disposal: Planning Permission ...... 79W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 19W AFFAIRS...... 1W Arts Council of England: Internet ...... 20W Agriculture: Subsidies ...... 1W Arts: Finance ...... 21W Animals: Transport ...... 1W Arts: Young People ...... 21W Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control...... 2W BBC Trust...... 20W Business: Rural Areas ...... 2W Broadband ...... 21W Charities ...... 2W Correspondence Management Unit ...... 22W Commission for Rural Communities: Finance ...... 3W Culture...... 22W Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 ...... 3W Inbound Tourists ...... 19W Departmental Visits Abroad ...... 3W Library Services ...... 20W Drinking Water: Fluoride ...... 4W Licensing Act 2003...... 22W Flood Control...... 5W Lithuania ...... 22W Floods: West Midlands ...... 7W National Heritage: Expenditure ...... 22W Lighting: EU Law ...... 8W Ofcom: Internet ...... 23W Local Government Services...... 8W Purton Hulks ...... 23W Origin Marking: Israel ...... 9W Regional Television News ...... 19W Palm Oil...... 9W RMS Titanic ...... 24W Renewable Energy: Fuel Oil ...... 10W Sports: Internet...... 24W Water ...... 10W Television: North Yorkshire ...... 25W VisitBritain: Finance...... 25W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 154W World Heritage Sites ...... 26W Afghanistan: Dams ...... 154W Afghanistan: Drugs...... 155W DEFENCE...... 36W Anti-Semitism: Eastern Europe...... 156W Afghanistan: Armed Forces ...... 36W British Council: Manpower...... 156W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 36W Chevening Scholarships Programme ...... 156W Armed Forces: Hepatitis C...... 36W Colombia: Political Prisoners...... 155W Armed Forces: Housing ...... 37W Colombia: Trade Unions...... 157W Armed Forces: Pensions...... 37W Departmental Publicity...... 157W Armed Forces: Postal Services ...... 37W Departmental Telephone Services ...... 158W Armed Forces: Secondment ...... 38W Diplomatic Service: Databases...... 158W Armed Forces: Training ...... 38W Hezbollah ...... 158W Armed Forces: Tribunals...... 39W Honduras: Human Rights...... 159W Col. No. Col. No. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT—continued continued Developing Countries: Zinc ...... 101W Israel: Foreign Relations ...... 159W Overseas Aid...... 101W Kosovo: Elections ...... 159W Overseas Aid: Education...... 102W Middle East: Armed Conflict...... 160W Peru: Dams ...... 102W Pakistan: Religious Freedom...... 160W Peru: EC External Trade ...... 103W Syria...... 160W Turks and Caicos Islands ...... 161W JUSTICE...... 131W USA: Terrorism ...... 162W Christmas...... 131W Court Funds Office: Fees and Charges...... 133W HEALTH...... 117W Courts...... 134W Cancer: Drugs...... 117W Departmental Visits Abroad ...... 134W Coeliac Disease ...... 117W Employers’ Liability: Insurance...... 135W Dental Services ...... 118W Housing: Sales ...... 136W Departmental Rail Travel...... 118W Legal aid ...... 136W Departmental Telephone Services ...... 118W Magistrates Courts: Wales ...... 137W Direct Payments...... 119W National Victims Service...... 137W Disabled: Social Services...... 119W Penalty Notices for Disorder...... 137W Drugs: Prisons ...... 120W Prisoners Release: Reoffenders...... 139W Elderly: Ethnic Groups ...... 120W Prisons: Drugs ...... 139W Health Education...... 121W Prisons: Inspections ...... 140W Health: Screening...... 121W Reoffenders...... 140W Health Services: Social Services ...... 121W Reparation by Offenders ...... 141W Herbal Medicine ...... 122W Shoplifting: Convictions ...... 142W Home Care Services ...... 122W Supreme Court: Costs...... 142W Hospitals: Ashford Kent ...... 122W Young Offender Institutions...... 142W Hospitals: Parking ...... 122W Influenza: Vaccination ...... 122W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 11W Mental Health Services ...... 125W Departmental Homeworking ...... 11W Mental Health Services: Waiting Lists ...... 125W EU Grants and Loans...... 11W Muscular Dystrophy: South East...... 125W Firearms: Licensing ...... 12W National Assistance Act 1948 ...... 126W Offensive Weapons...... 12W Nutrition...... 127W Police ...... 12W Organs: Donors ...... 128W Police: Devolution...... 13W Social Services...... 128W Presbyterian Mutual Society ...... 13W Swine Flu...... 130W Prostitution...... 14W West Hertfordshire Hospitals NHS Trust...... 130W OLYMPICS ...... 16W HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 26W Construction Programme...... 16W Asylum ...... 26W Contracts: Hertfordshire ...... 17W Asylum: Children...... 29W Departmental Telephone Services ...... 17W Asylum: Liverpool ...... 29W Legacy: North-West...... 16W Borders: Personal Records ...... 29W Members: Correspondence ...... 17W Closed Circuit Television ...... 29W Olympic and Paralympic Games 2012...... 17W Community Resolutions ...... 30W Olympic Games 2012: Construction ...... 18W Departmental Advertising...... 30W Olympic Games 2012: Contracts...... 18W Departmental Correspondence ...... 30W Olympic Games 2012: Countries...... 18W Deportation ...... 31W Olympic Games 2012: Finance...... 18W Deportation: Northern Ireland ...... 31W Olympic Games 2012: Land...... 19W Entry Clearances...... 31W Entry Clearances: Children ...... 32W PRIME MINISTER ...... 11W Entry Clearances: Fees and Charges ...... 32W Ministers: Taxation ...... 11W Entry Clearances: Pakistan ...... 33W Forensic Science Service...... 33W SCOTLAND...... 10W Immigration...... 34W Departmental Aviation ...... 10W Immigration Controls ...... 34W Departmental Postal Services...... 11W Immigration Controls: Ports ...... 34W Departmental Travel ...... 11W Immigration: Tibet...... 35W Robbery ...... 35W TRANSPORT ...... 48W Small Retailer Grant Fund ...... 35W A1: Speed Limits...... 48W UK Border Agency: Correspondence...... 35W A1079: Repairs and Maintenance ...... 49W Airports ...... 49W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION ...... 1W Airports: Expansion...... 49W House of Commons: Energy...... 1W Bedford Station...... 49W Biofuels: Carbon Emissions ...... 49W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 99W Cycling: Accidents ...... 50W Afghanistan: Overseas Aid...... 99W Departmental Advertising...... 50W Departmental Air Travel ...... 99W Departmental Postal Services...... 51W Departmental Freedom of Information ...... 100W Departmental Responsibility ...... 51W Departmental Postal Services...... 100W Driving: Licensing...... 52W Developing Countries: HIV Infection ...... 101W Driving: Mobile Telephones...... 52W Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT—continued TREASURY—continued Hard Shoulder Running Projects ...... 53W Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander...... 69W Heathrow Airport: Safety ...... 53W Mortgages: Bexley...... 70W Lorries: Testing ...... 53W Northern Rock...... 70W Motorways: Noise...... 54W Public Expenditure: Northern Ireland...... 70W Network Rail: Finance...... 54W Public Expenditure: South West...... 70W Postal Services...... 55W Taxation...... 71W Railway Network ...... 55W Taxation: Aviation ...... 71W Railways...... 56W Taxation: Corporate Hospitality ...... 72W Railways: Standards...... 56W Wikimedia UK: Taxation...... 72W Roads: Accidents ...... 57W Roads: Safety ...... 59W WOMEN AND EQUALITY...... 15W Safer City Funding ...... 60W Departmental Freedom of Information...... 15W Sustrans: Finance...... 60W Departmental Home Working...... 15W Thameslink ...... 61W Departmental Travel ...... 15W Thameslink: Manpower ...... 62W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 85W Vehicle and Operator Services Agency: Attendance Allowance: St. Albans...... 86W Haverfordwest...... 63W Carer’s Allowance ...... 86W Waterloo International Terminal...... 63W Children: Maintenance ...... 86W Waterloo Station ...... 64W Cold Weather Payments: St. Albans...... 87W Council Tax Benefit ...... 87W TREASURY ...... 64W Credit Unions ...... 89W Alcohol: Excise Duties...... 64W Crisis Loans ...... 90W Bank Services...... 64W Departmental Motor Vehicles...... 90W Banks...... 65W Employment: Autism ...... 91W Banks: Debts...... 65W Employment: Lone Parents...... 91W Banks: Yorkshire and the Humber...... 65W Employment Support Allowance ...... 91W Child Care Vouchers ...... 66W Housing Benefit ...... 92W Child Trust Fund ...... 66W Housing Benefit: Council Tax Benefit...... 94W Children: Day Care ...... 66W Local Housing Allowance...... 95W Council Tax: Valuation ...... 67W Members: Pensions ...... 96W Debts ...... 67W New Deal for Lone Parents...... 96W Departmental Freedom of Information ...... 67W Pension Credit...... 96W Economic Growth...... 67W Social Fund: Working Tax Credit ...... 85W Economic Situation...... 68W Social Security Benefits...... 97W Equitable Life Assurance Society...... 68W Social Security Benefits: Bexley...... 97W Financial Services: Regulation ...... 68W Telephone Services...... 97W Government: Assets ...... 68W Unemployment Benefits...... 98W Income Tax ...... 69W Welfare to Work: Standards ...... 99W MINISTERIAL CORRECTIONS

Monday 9 November 2009

Col. No. Col. No. CABINET OFFICE...... 1MC COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 5MC National School of Government ...... 1MC Free Swimming Scheme ...... 5MC Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Monday 16 November 2009

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Members may obtain excerpts of their Speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), on application to the Stationery Office, c/o the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons, from whom the terms and conditions of reprinting may be ascertained. Application forms are available at the Vote Office.

PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords, £3·50. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords, £525. WEEKLY HANSARD Single copies: Commons, £12; Lords, £6. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £440. Lords, £225. Index—Single copies: Commons, £6·80—published every three weeks Annual subscriptions: Commons, £125; Lords, £65. LORDS CUMULATIVE INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £40. Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volumeof House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. WEEKLY INFORMATION BULLETIN compiled by the House of Commons, giving details of past and forthcoming business, the work of Committees and general information on legislation, etc. The Annual Subscription includes also automatic despatch of the Sessional Information Digest. Single copies: £1·50. Annual subscriptions: £53·50. All prices are inclusive of postage Volume 499 Monday No. 138 9 November 2009

CONTENTS

Monday 9 November 2009

List of Government and Principal Officers of the House

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 1] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport Minister for the Olympics

FOI Request (Immigration) [Col. 23] Answer to urgent question—(Mr. Woolas)

Energy National Policy Statements [Col. 30] Statement—(Edward Miliband)

Installation of Letter Box Guards (Protection from Dogs) [Col. 46] Bill presented, and read the First time

Coroners and Justice Bill (Programme) (No. 4) [Col. 46] Programme motion (Mr. Heppell)—on a Division, agreed to

Coroners and Justice Bill [Col. 51] Lords amendments considered

Petition [Col. 132]

Mental Health Services [Col. 133] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 1WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 1W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Corrections [Col. 1MC]