The Ford Strike: Where Does It Take

34 MARXISM TODAY, FEBRUARY, 1979 The Ford Strike: Where does it take us? An Interview with Dan Connor (Dan Connor is the convenor of Ford's Dagenham Body Plant and the Communist Parliamentary Candidate for the Dagenham constituency. The interview was conducted for Marxism Today by Martin Jacques, its Editor, and Brian Nicholls, a member of the South Essex District Committee of the Communist Party and politically active for many years in the Dagenham area.) Could you tell us something about Ford's—its Welsh miners, the Welsh marchers from South Wales, workforce, diversity and so on ? a number of whom settled in Dagenham, and others from the North of England. So we have a long We can only talk about Dagenham here but it is history of absorption of people and our shop duplicated elsewhere. We have got on the Dagenham stewards have got very much a cosmopolitan view. estate about 26,000 workers. An interesting feature is We've got lots of lads from Scotland, the North of that Ford can no longer get local workers to work in England, South Wales and in increasing numbers the factory and they have to scour literally for miles nowadays we are getting coloured shop stewards, around; workers come from 25-30 miles away from so we have a very good representation in all the Dagenham. There is a very high proportion of col plants of Dagenham. The proportion of women is oured workers and I would think that in my own plant, very very low, they are concentrated in one part, for example, we have about 60 per cent coloured largely on trim work. workers from different ethnic backgrounds. With regard to the nature of the work I think it is right THE STRIKE to say that over the years the physical drudgery has been taken out of the job as a result of automation, Can we talk about the strike now. One of the things but the tedium of the job, the continuous repetitive that was widely commented on was what seemed to be work, day after day, night after night, is one of the the spontaneity of the strike, the speed and relative major problems people face. unanimity with which people came out. What would The productivity of Ford workers, compared with you say about this ? most of British industry, is extremely high: indeed the company is one of the most profitable units in I don't think it was spontaneous—I think it was the whole of Europe. As far as the work itself is a very quick reaction on the ground that had been concerned, there are foundry workers, there is the evolving for some years. It must be remembered, of highly automated engine production, and there is the course, that Ford's is a very highly profitable com more manual worker who is involved in the manu pany and, to talk about labour costs being the prime facture of car bodies, that is the whole building and mover of inflation, it was clearly being demonstrated fixing together of steel bodies and the equipment, to Ford workers that this was not so. It was seen that trim etc., which is very labour intensive at present. during the last twelve months, for example, that whereas wages had stood still since October 1977, What about trade union organisation in the various yet nonetheless Ford had put their prices up four plants? times and profits had risen from £121 million to £240 million; that was the key, the background, the It varies, of course, because of shift patterns but conditions in Ford's. again, to quote my own plant with about 6,500 Now having said that, very detailed preparations people, we have 95 stewards and that seems to be took place and the claim itself was formulated very the ratio in all the six plants in Dagenham. Very early in the year. Our claims are not based on what good representation, again made up of different the unions think should be done. We take into ethnic groups. account the views of the TUC obviously, and our Dagenham, of course, has got a history of immi individual trade unions, but in addition to that we grants; in the pre-war days Ford was notorious for consistently consult our members the whole time. bringing people over from Ireland where there was Before submitting a claim to the unions themselves, no employment at all to an area where there was in fact, we go back to our members on the floor for unemployment, it is true, but nevertheless the situa their endorsement. tion was better than it was in Ireland. We also had As I say than, I think the question of profit levels MARXISM TODAY, FEBRUARY, 1979 35

and the way that people had had clearly demon Can you tell us something about the relationship strated to them that wages were not the prime cause between the different unions? of inflation, plus the constant harassment that goes on about speed-up, I think that laid the objective We have fought for unity between the different basis for the response to what they saw as a legiti unions over many years—it isn't just something mate claim, carefully researched and carefully pre which has grown up overnight. 1 think it is right to pared. I think the idea of spontaneity could be mis mention the role of the Communist Party in this leading as one feels that all you have got to do is connection, going back 25-30 years there has been to wave the flag and everyone will walk out. I don't this view that we have wanted a joint shop stewards think that is likely to happen unless people have committee and you push the same policy through got a great sense of indignation and real under every union. standing of where they are going and why they are The unity achieved between the AUEW and the going there. TGWU is very much the result of grassroots under standing and the joint activity between the unions In the recent period a lot of attention, especially themselves. There were problems of course—the ETU in the car industry, has been focused on the problem played a retrogressive role during our claim—but we of differentials, notably concerning toolroom workers. overcame these problems at a local level. At Ford's you had a united movement. And the white-collar workers? Ford craft workers aren't immune from this con cern about differentials. But because we have a joint It would be easy to attack them for the rather negotiating committee, we tried to iron these dormant attitude they took during the dispute, but problems out in advance and the claim was so for if you look at that in isolation it could be misleading. mulated as to take care of that. We were quite One has got to recognise that over the last ten or clear that there are problems amongst craft workers— fifteen years a tremendous organisation has taken one cannot deny that the extensive period of training place amongst white-collar workers; one has got to a man undergoes as an apprentice, plus of course recognise that amongst manual workers it has been a the very advantageous rates of pay which are being long historical process which has got to the level it offered by other areas—that the Ford rates were not has, but for white-collar workers it is all a fairly high for craft workers, and therefore the claim recent innovation. Certainly amongst our supervisors, was formulated to take care of that. organised in the ASTMS, in many ways they did We were looking for a minimum increase for what they could to assist in the dispute. everybody to take care of inflation, to take care of company profitability, and over and above that there You said earlier that black workers made up about were a number of areas that needed special attention. half the labour force at Dagenham—what about their Amongst these were toolroom workers, and that was involvement in the strike? generally agreed by the TGWU. By the same token craft unions also accepted that the people working I think we have to differentiate a bit. We have on lines and tracks also had a special claim. A different groups of coloured workers: large numbers major problem, of course, and I am speaking parti of Caribbean workers, large number of Asians. Then cularly of Dagenham, is that we cannot get tool- you've got the East African Asians, West Africians, makers to work in Dagenham: the wage freeze has a smattering of Maltese, Cypriots, a few Turks, so aggravated the situation to a degree that unless we it is a very broad grouping. get toolmakers to do jobs, the jobs will go abroad Because we go for shop floor democracy, because and we will lose not only that sort of work, but also we hold meetings within the plants at shop level, and the investment to do it. in that way ask people to voice their feelings, then all workers, irrespective of colour, are automatically Why do you think the toolroom workers at Leyland involved. You don't just ask them to go along to a have had a relatively more separatist attitude? trade union branch, which might be in some remote spot, but we ask them to attend their shop meetings It is a different wages structure of course. Leyland which are on the premises. They are speaking to is made up of a number of different companies people they know, people they have elected as shop and different wage structures all over the country. stewards and therefore this is the key to the involve Ford grew up in a different manner. We grew up in ment of people; they are with people they know, they a wages structure that was national in character; work in that shop, in that department, and therefore we've never known anything different, but I think they do get involved on a very large scale. During against the multinational we have probably had to the strike itself, 1 had an interesting personal develop the way we have. experience, though it may not be relevant to every 36 MARXISM TODAY, FEBRUARY, 1979

site outside of Dagenham, but my experience was arguing about the politics of the strike. We also that there was a tremendous amount of loyalty sold Stars where possible and there was a leaflet. displayed by coloured workers, to the degree that one could argue that they were less questioning than During the long strike to what extent did you succeed some of the older labour force. People have been in involving workers in activity around the strike? brought up with 25-30 years of social democracy in this country, with all the political debate that goes I think we should pay some tribute to the workers on, the old loyalties to the labour movement etc., outside of Ford's. In actual fact our workers res but this is absent amongst these immigrant workers. ponded to the needs of the hour—if I can put it Their minds are very much fresher in many ways. that way. Ford workers are traditionally very dif They see things with a bit more clarity, and therefore ficult to organise on big pickets; we haven't had there is a lot more loyalty from them. massive pickets in Dagenham since the early fifties, when we had the problems of trade union recogni Apart from the differences you have talked about, tion. Since then there has been a high level of labour would you say that sections of black workers tend to discipline and it is one of the features of Dagenham be more political than the white workers? that once a strike is called, people just go away. Looking around Dagenham it was incredible really, This again would be bit of a subjective judgment. there were about 25 ways of getting into those Of my own experience of workers, I find there is a factories at Dagenham yet no one attempted it. high level of political awareness amongst Indian and Of course we maintained 24-hour pickets in dozens Pakistani workers. Of West Indian and Caribbean of locations in Dagenham and that is when you workers generally that isn't true because most of would turn away external people. Ford's strategy them came over before the big political battles in was to bring in cars from abroad, but we had very the West Indies. I think it is true, certainly amongst good support from delivery drivers, train drivers, Asian workers, that there is a very high level of seamen and so on. There was massive support from understanding. them and I think in many ways it turned the course of the strike. It could have been a much harder What proportion of black and Asian workers are battle if we had not had that sort of support, because shop stewards ? Ford's would have flooded this country from the Continent, so we owe quite a debt to those people. I cannot talk for the whole estate, but amongst my shop stewards—95—a quarter of those are black. Are you saying that there was no solidarity with the Ford plants in Western Europe? Does the average age of shop stewards roughly correspond with the work force as a whole ? Well, initially, there would have been no under standing of the fact that there was a Ford strike on. I think we are going through a cycle now where But within weeks of the strike starting there was a we are throwing up a lot of younger stewards. It is conference at Transport House called by the Inter beginning to express itself now. I don't think it has national Metal Workers' Federation in which pledges done—there have been more mature elements playing of solidarity came from the Spanish workers, French the key role—but what you are getting now is a much workers from Bordeaux, Belgium, Holland and younger age group amongst the stewards. It is very Germany—the German workers refused to take into noticeable. We had meetings of shop stewards every Ford's German plants any work which was nor week in Dagenham from all six plants, which are mally done in the U.K. So the situation got steadily large units in themselves, 6,500 in one, 5,000 in better. But it took time to develop. another, very large factories in their own right, but once a week we had all the stewards together from The demonstration the stewards organised into every plant and looking at those meetings it was Central London was rather small. noticeable that the age groups were in their early Yes—it is part of our problem. twenties—there was quite a high proportion of those. Was that because of a lack of priority attached We want to talk more about the role of the to that kind of activity during the period of the strike ? Communist Party branch later. But can you say some thing briefly about its role in the strike now? No, I think it was the fact that Ford workers come from a massive area, go from here eastwards, thirty Yes. Communists were very active at all levels—on miles away—they come from Southend, Sheerness, the negotiating committee, on the stewards commit out to Billericay, and going this way we've got large tees, helping to produce the regular news bulletin, numbers coming from Brixton; our labour force is MARXISM TODAY, FEBRUARY, 1979 37

over such a massive area and we've got no contact. one company, it must be achieved throughout Going back to the early big demos that they used Europe. A number of our trade union leaders have to have in Dagenham in the fifties, 60-70 per got the view that we cannot place this burden on cent of our people actually lived in Dagenham, and British industry—it would leave us at a disadvantage. all you had to do in the old days was to go into a local pub or the working men's club and you made You don't think the penalty clauses were that all your contacts there, but that is no longer the important—though the Company made quite a thing reality and therefore we didn't have that sort of day- of them ? to-day liaison with our people. What we did do though, to make sure that they were kept up-to- It is interesting that during the negotiations we date with events, was to issue a weekly bulletin; asked the Company to identify the causes of their every time people came down for their tax rebates production losses. We wanted to try and put some and their strike pay, there was a bulletin put out of the onus for this on the Company. We wanted to once a week. Of course it should be emphasised that show that the cause of job loss was not due to the situation varied from plant to plant. At Swansea, recalcitrance or obstinacy in our people, but that a for example, the workforce is much more local. great deal of it sprang from poor and badly designed equipment and inadequate investment. We wanted to THE RESULTS find out if we get more problems of absenteeism in uncongenial and boring jobs. If we do, the answer To the settlement—obviously you did extremely well is not to pay people bonuses to put up with these on the wages question, and not so well on the hours. uncongenial jobs but to engineer them out. Now that How do you assess the settlement you got ? was the perspective the trade unions had. We tried I think looked at objectively, the gains were fairly to identify with a view to making conditions better substantial but they still don't reflect Ford's ability and trying to eliminate unnecessary loss. But the to pay. I think if you weigh it against Ford's ability Company refused point blank to respond to that, so to pay, we could have gone a lot further. But we they clearly had something to hide there about the got as far as we could in our opinion, the gains we equipment, something they wanted to conceal. made were sufficient to hold the labour force together and make a settlement at that stage; if we had car From what you have just said, the Ford workers ried on much longer it might have disintegrated. It saw the strike as primarily around the wages question. was important to us having made these gains to take Would that be a fair statement ? the lads back in a united manner so that we could carry on another day. Yes—I think there was a physical need. Ford On the question of the shorter working week, 1 wages are relatively low. My take-home pay, for think we were disappointed. As for the penalty 44 hours a week (including four hours overtime), clauses, it was a red herring as far as we were con was normally £51 a week, which by any standards cerned, and I believe the unions reacted far too was bloody low for a family; there was a real strongly to the penalty clauses. I think they were physical need for more money. So 1 think that wages, things that could have been left to be fought at local in that sense, led to the action we got. It was also level. The company can't operate these penalty recognition that the profitability of the Company clauses—it's as simple as that. The rank and file here was extremely high. There was very widespread could have taken care of the so-called penalty clauses. recognition of that. People were saying, "We are What we should have done obviously was to build being milked day by day" and I think that played our case for the shorter working week, which is more a very tangible part. important, particularly for the Ford workers, because with the coming models, micro-electronics will play What was the attitude of Ford workers towards the an increasing role in our struggle. But we only Government's position on the 5 per cent. How did really paid lip-service to this issue. The unions are they see the Government fitting into the picture? not geared to undertake an ideological battle on it. I think amongst Ford workers there was a view What do you see as the main problem here ? that they are hard-working, producing the goods, producing the profits, and why should the Govern There is a big ideological problem. The Ford ment now interfere on the side of the Ford Motor Motor Company, for example, quoted back to us on Company. They saw government intervention as our claim, what Jack Jones had written two years only producing more profits for a multi-national com ago. They said that Jack Jones, your own General pany, and I think there was a lot of disillusionment Secretary, in his pamphlet called "The Thirty-Five that "our" government, the Labour government, a Hour Week" said it is not going to be achieved in working-class government could do this. Having said 38 MARXISM TODAY, FEBRUARY, 1979

that I think the other view was, "Well, those people as necessary as our electricity workers, coal miners who don't make a profit, who work in other areas and railway workers. and so on, if they want to freeze their wages, well do Clearly there is always going to be the difficulty so, but in relation to ours, we are churning out the of how you rate the work of a road sweeper, for goods so why should you intervene against us". example, and it's got to be one of those things that there's always got to be a debate on—there are What's the morale of the workers after the strike ? difficulties which I don't think we have really defined. Nevertheless, I think what is indicated is that there I think there's a very interesting relationship must be a free-going debate on the trade union side, between people now. I think the morale amongst recognising the priority of a particular group of Ford workers is extremely high and that's their workers, whether in local government or whether any general sort of demeanor, and that's unusual after a sort of government employees. That is the way to nine-week strike, which has led to direct hardships, try and sort these problems out. yet morale and the general mood of people is Notwithstanding these problems though, it seems extremely high. And I think, even more important to me that one of the key questions is organisation— than that, is the tremendous rapport between the that is one of the lessons of the Ford experience— workers and their trade unions. In other words they and if the Ford workers had been defeated it cer feel that at last there is organisation which is not tainly wouldn't have benefited the lower paid. As a only prepared to back them, but which has also gone matter of fact if the Government had been able to out of its way in terms of strike pay and so on. take on the people with muscle and smash those, they would have got hold of the weaker sections of workers and literally wrung their necks. What I am What do you think the long-term ideological impact really saying is that we at least stopped this imposi of the strike will he on the workforce? tion of greater and greater authoritarianism and this sort of corporate state line. That is very important. We in Ford have been through strike after strike —including some very lengthy ones—but I wouldn't necessarily say that the result of those strikes, say of What do you think the significance of the present the last five or ten years, has been that people have wages struggle is ? automatically learnt the lessons. This is obviously a big political and ideological problem. I think the wages battle alone is bloody nonsensi cal; it's got to be done for purely economic reasons THE FORD STRIKE AND ITS WIDER IMPACT anyway, that goes without saying. In our case work ing for a private employer that's a right of ours. But What do you think the Ford strike means for other I think going beyond there the important thing is sections of workers ? that you begin to mobilise people, and it depends on whether we can capitalise on the mobilisation achieved. We have to lead people now into a broader Well I think on a national basis we've acted as a sort of social challenge. Now if you challenge the spearhead. authority of government, and having challenged the authority of government and opened it out, can you Obviously that's true, that's clear. One point though. go further than that? I believe that is what we have Ford workers, as you have said, are in many ways got to develop. In my opinion, working for a multi in a special position—in a very profitable firm, plenty national company, one of the problems is that if of industrial muscle and so on. It won't de so easy Ford's decide to invest elsewhere, the next year you for some other sections. They won't see themselves as won't be going for a 10.5 or 5 per cent, you may be in the same situation. And that must have affected struggling for jobs. It seems to me that on the basis their attitudes toward Ford's. Take local authority of having freed the trade unions from government workers, for example, where, amongst other things, shackles, you now release trade unions to start wages have a direct impact on rates. developing other forms of activity which is not only in the interests of their members but is basically part Yes, the Ford situation couldn't exist at a local of the society we live in, in the interests of the authority level could it. Because obviously the rate society we're in and in that sense I see the breaking payer would get involved, the local ratepayer would of the social contract as important, it is something be fighting people like me, maybe. It's obviously a that we want to try and develop now. It seems the very complex ideological battle. It needs examination; essence of breaking the social contract for us was to it needs looking at. Obviously, the answer is bound allow the trade unions that freedom to start diver up with the role they play in society; they are just sifying in all sorts of areas. MARXISM TODAY, FEBRUARY, 1979 39

So what do you see the recent struggle at Ford's In a letter which you and Bernie Passingham sent to leading to now? Callaghan during the strike you wrote: "What has been made abundantly clear to us during our discus It seems to me now that we have got to try and sions with the Dagenham workers is not only the spread the impetus into new directions; the shorter irreparable damage to the Labour Party but a growing working week is an important battle, and also the hostility to the continuation of a Labour government. general quality of life. We have now got to try and Proposals that we should work for the return of Labour lead people in a broader direction. In other words, MPs are now being openly derided". Could you say we can't just sit back now and rest on our laurels something about this? until the next wages battle comes up; it seems to me that this is an ideological question which commun Amongst our people during the strike, traditional ists have got to take up. You just can't go from year Labour supporters or voters were more than dis to year within the mass organisations on the wages gruntled and were saying that is the lot. I think it is question; we have got to utilise the organisations right to say now that we are going to have a very which have proved successful on the wages battle in a difficult job, notwithstanding the end of this strike, to forward direction. get these people to continue to support the Labour In the case of us Ford workers, of course a major government. I have no doubt about there being feature for us will be the question of what is going immense political damage done which we have now to happen with regard to the technical developments got to try and retrieve and it might take years to which are going to take place in the next two to recompense that. three years in micro-electronics. We have got to try to One of our stewards has recently got some pub get the same awareness that they had about wages licity, as an individual, about withdrawing the on this question of future technology. It might be political levy. As far as my branch is concerned— more difficult as it is a new level for people to struggle, it is a very large branch—we've had one applicant, but nonetheless it seems to me that we have got to do and the rest of them we are going to approach, but that. The question of the right of monopolies, a the Secretary of the Foundry Workers' Branch has multinational, to put its investment just where it suits had fifty applications to withdraw their political levy. it. In other words, if it wants to withdraw invest ment here at Dagenham and put it elsewhere, we So it's not essentially a pro-Tory development but a have got to gear our people and their membership distancing between the workers and the Labour Party ? to start taking part in these other struggles, and it seems to me that it is one of the areas we've tended People have accepted the Labour Party in the to fall down on in the past. trade union movement, we financed it, and clearly this is a very retrogressive step where people are The Ford strike has taken place during a period in now saying, "Well, instead of the Labour Party which there has, it can be argued, been some kind of representing us as trade unionists, we pay them to shift to the right. . . . do that, people are now saying they don't represent us; in fact we go back further than the 1900s in I am not sure about that. It seems there would be that sense. a bit of a contradiction really to say people have moved to the right and yet are winning the battle When first reading the letter which we have just for wages. They would have fought a Tory or Labour quoted, two things sprang to mind about this strike, government. I think the real danger is not people which were different from, say, the 1970-4 period; voting Tory but just abstaining and allowing the firstly, the economic situation, that is we are now Tories in. This seems to be posing a big problem experiencing something of a recession and, secondly, for us as a Party as to why we aren't able, through that we now have a Labour government. Historically our parliamentary candidates, why we are not able to the relationship between militancy and a Labour capture that mood. government has always been that much more com Looked at objectively, all the things people are plicated than in a period of Tory government where fighting for—wages, against cuts and closures, child the traditional anti-Toryism of the trade union move welfare, we have been involved in all these—are the ment comes into play. Inevitably a fight like you have policies which we in the Party have been putting had in a situation of Labour government, a minority forward, yet people won't vote us into Parliament to Labour government in a pre-election atmosphere more execute these policies. Now it seems to me that there over, is going to have quite a complex political effect. is a contradiction which we in Dagenham have got to work out. I am quite convinced that basically there That's true—because you had the same anti- is a lot of suspicion about what communists do government feeling being generated here that you when they get into power. That's a big problem. had during the mineworkers' dispute. No less veno- 40 MARXISM TODAY, FEBRUARY, 1979

mous—just as the mineworkers hated Heath and all going to be one of the battlegrounds for the unions. he stood for, there was that sort of build-up among a lot of our people when you spoke to them. It was So the position has not just got to be more invest a mirror reflection and that was a tragedy I think. ment, but where the investment goes, the type of invest You wouldn't expect a working class government to ment and what kinds of things are produced. react in the same way as a Tory government. Yes, the type of investment in particular, and it should be added that this is something that affects PERSPECTIVES FOR FORD not just the traditional blue collar workers, but also Do you think this strike will have any effect on the the design staff and the technologists at all sorts of long-term operation of Ford in Britain? levels and obviously ultimately affects the sort of education provided for our young people. If we don't I think it is unlikely. British labour is still very cheap need technologists, we won't raise the level of tech indeed and I wouldn't think that the threatened nology in our colleges. sanctions will in any way touch on Ford investment. The Ford shop stewards at Dagenham are on record This raises the general problem, which we know for nationalisation. What does nationalisation mean in you have been very concerned with, of how workers the context of an international firm like Ford's? can extend their control over a major international You've put the problem. Precisely, it means taking firm like Ford's which enjoys such enormous and over the facilities of that particular company in this independent power. How do you see perspectives in country and then trading on the same basis as at this area as far as you're concerned at Ford in Britain ? present. Each Ford unit, taking Ford as an example, I assume this is the practice elsewhere, each unit I think this is an area that should be explored actually manufactures and sells to a brother plant more fully by the trade unions but I think there has overseas. Now I can see no great contradiction been a failure nationally of most of the unions to between my manager, for example, still working out take up this problem and have a proper look at it. his costs and selling to Ford in Cologne, even if, in Ford, for example, are now going to use Austria as a fact, that particular plant or complex is owned by the base for relatively cheap mass production. I think British government. 1 can't see too many contradic the unions must get themselves concerned and they tions in this as an immediate interim step. But, of have got to equip themselves in the proper way to course, Ford of Europe or any multinational cor carry on this ideological battle among their members poration would not allow that situation to develop and convince their members that investment is as much longer. They might, for example, decide to try much in their interest as wages and hours of work is. and kill the thing. On the other hand, would they In addition to that I think we have also got to want to risk being cut off entirely from the profitable maintain contact with unions overseas, particularly in Ford operation in Britain? The pros and cons would Europe, to ensure Ford doesn't play us off against need to be examined. each other. It would be the easiest thing in the world to force Spanish workers or French workers at Ford Under Labour government legislation it is now pos to produce a little bit more because in that way they sible to ask during a wage claim for certain informa will get investment and then come back to the tion from the employer: you did this during the present British worker and play them off and say they must claim. To what extent do you think this sort of work harder. legislation in the direction of "opening the books" It is worth making the point here that it is not will help put the Ford workers in a better position with only the manufacture of motor cars which is at stake regard to control over the company? but, with particular models becoming European- wide, Ford will tend to have one set of tools for I have got no faith in any legislation any way, them, so it will affect the machine tool industry as whoever it is enacted by—I've got to say that in well and likewise the steel industry. To take an view of the Grunwick and Sanderson disputes. The example, some very heavy new presses have recently fact is though, it is a key question and very much to been installed in the Dagenham plant and each one do with where we are going in the coming decade. of these has come from the Continent and yet we Ultimately some will say, those on the extreme left, have foundry workers and technologists in this that such demands are really propping up capitalism country out of work. The point I would make here and we shouldn't go down that road and rather is that there is a need for the unions, and the TUC should talk about the immediate battle for national in particular, to start taking hold of this particular isation. I don't agree with that. My own view is problem of not only investment in general in the that given the current situation prevailing in the UK country, but also the nature of the investment. It is what we have got to do during the period of trans- MARXISM TODAY, FEBRUARY, 1979 41

formation before we get a left-wing orientated social POLITICS AT FORD'S ist government is grasp the maximum advantage throughout and mobilise people around it. I think Could you tell us something more about the Com the disclosure of information to us would be impor munist Party branch at Ford's. tant. We have had access to a certain amount of information from the company which has been made The party branch has got a long history which available and I think this may account for the goes back to the war years and there hasn't been a sophistication of the Ford claims. The unions have major issue at Ford's in which communists haven't to be prepared to mobilise our members and point played an active part. We have over 30 members out to the men that the disclosure of this informa organised in the branch and more who belong to tion, particularly certain kinds of information, is other branches. In the current dispute, as I said, we just as vital as fighting for wages and fighting for have played a leading role; our comrades not only shorter hours. I think it is a vital part of the interests were active shop stewards, but they played an active of our members. It's a new dimension of the trade role on the various works committees, the joint unions, as I see it. negotiating committee, and were active in promoting the whole concept of this claim. I think we can say that we are the only political organisation which is You regard these kinds of developments as the next firmly established on an historical basis in any form step. . . . in the complex at Dagenham. It is a question of encroaching more and more on How would you see the distinction between the role the prerogative of the employer, whoever it is. That of the party workplace branch and the trade unions. doesn't mean to say that you carry on with that situation for ever and ever; it doesn't mean that is Within Ford's there are 30 national unions repre the sort of society we want, where we always share senting Ford workers, and each one of those is based information. But at this stage of the game it is where upon a craft or trade or a particular skill and I we are. We need more information and more say so think if they were left to their own devices they we become less of a tool of the multinationals. would tend to pursue their craft or specific interest. Similarly they would be tied to their union con You see this as the next stage and nationalisation as ference decision. The party branch has to move a more distant object. beyond this. It has to deal with the broad ideolo gical questions. Yes, I think that would be right. Two of the most difficult problems as far as party workplace organisation is concerned are firstly, not A final point. To what extent do you think Ford simply working as a ginger group in relation to the shop stewards should campaign to force Ford's to put trade union organisation in the factory, and, secondly, much more into the local community that they are striking the correct balance (including in terms of doing at present ? personnel resources) between people working in the branch and operating within the shop steward struc 1 think this is again something we haven't really ture. To what extent has this been a problem at examined enough; we have councillors elected from Ford's and how do you try to overcome it? the locality and I wonder whether there isn't a case to be made out for having councillors elected from I don't think we should disguise the fact that the large industrial establishments. Maybe where there leading activists of the party have tended to gravitate are large industrial establishments there should be a towards the trade union set-up in there because that direct link between the shop stewards committees or is where the battles take place. The only way of over whatever and the Council itself. As far as local coming this problem, it seems to me, is by constant industry is concerned, Dagenham is, of course, dialogue and by making aware to all comrades what dominated by half a dozen multinational corpora stage the trade union struggle has reached. I think tions and they have no responsibility at all to our one of the weaknesses has been the tendency of local authority. Our local authority educates our party members involved in trade union work to be young people, or partly educates them any way; but so tightly involved in it, taking that as their party the point about it is that they have no guarantee about responsibility, and not disclosing that to other com what is going to happen in ten or fifteen years' time: rades. In other words they operate in a watertight it could well be that within 10 or 15 years Dagenham compartment. We have tried to promote a twofold will just be an industrial desert. So the stewards must exchange to make sure comrades are not isolated, be involved in these questions. that we don't get particular specialists, that we don't 42 MARXISM TODAY, FEBRUARY, 1979

have trade union specialists, we don't have some getting too deeply engrossed in and getting bogged other sort of specialists, we are getting comrades, down with routine matters: I think that is the major communists who are doing all sorts of work, dilemma we have. But you can't step aside from I think the fundamental thing that needs to be these problems and concentrate on the big political absorbed by all of our comrades is the idea of the issues. I think there is a danger either way. I think trade union struggle as only part of the general this is a balance that faces most comrades and the struggle. more they get involved in the trade union move I think this is the real danger—that comrades get so ment as shop stewards, the more they are going to wrapped up in it, because of the time involved in it, run into that particular dilemma. that they sometimes forget that what they are doing in the trade union movement is actually trying to There are obviously quite a few Labour Party implement an idea, a political aspiration and I think members in the factories—activists, councillors and so that is the one thing that needs to be said over and on. But not organised as such. Do you think the over again, that trade union struggle in itself, with Labour Party should be organised in the workplace ? out this political and ideological basis, will ulti mately come to nothing. Yes, I believe that wherever political battles are, One of the things we have got to try and do is to where people are involved in action, the politics go beyond the immediate. We, as a party branch, should be there—for the Labour Party like the have got to develop the political struggle within the Communist Party. factories and the largest opportunity is through the Certainly, the Labour Party would be a lot stronger trade union machine, but there is a danger of seeing if they tried to find some organised base in industry that as being the only way of doing it, just utilising because clearly at the moment it is losing individual the trade union machine. All I can add to that membership, losing political touch with people. I really is that we have endeavoured to avoid that think that if they are going to become more effec pitfall. Some of our comrades have succumbed, we've tive, the Labour Party should certainly be based on got to say that, we've had our degree of failures, the factory. It would help to strengthen the whole we've had lads who say that trade union work is all, labour movement. Just as communists and non- is the only way to operate, but by and large, the communists unite in the trade union movement to history in Dagenham, anyway, is that most of our hammer out their joint policies and come to some comrades have also been involved in the full political accord, so I believe that politically it would be an struggle: we have always had some of our comrades immense strength if we had parallel organisations serving on the district committee of the party and fighting within the plants. Clearly there are ideo working in local organisations. logical differences but they would be debated about The big danger that we do have, because of the the same as in the localities nowadays. 1 think not nature of the struggle which is very intense and I only would it enhance the Labour Party itself but suppose this goes for any large factory, is that of it would enhance the political struggle in this country.