The minutes were confirmed on 21 June 2016 without amendment.

Minutes of the 1st Special Meeting of District Council in 2016

Date : 5 April 2016 (Tuesday)

Time : 2:00 p.m. –5:00 p.m.

Venue : Conference Room, 13/F., Yuen Long Government Offices, 2 Kiu Lok Square, Yuen Long

Present Time of Arrival Time of Withdrawal Chairman: Mr SHUM Ho-kit (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Vice Chairman : Mr WONG Wai-shun (Beginning of the meeting) (2:50 p.m.) Members : Mr CHAM Ka-hung Daniel, (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) BBS, MH, JP Ms CHAN Mei-lin (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr CHAN Sze-ching (2:10 p.m.) (2:20 p.m.) Mr CHEUNG Muk-lam (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr CHING Chan-ming (Beginning of the meeting) (4:40 p.m.) Ms CHIU Sau-han (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr CHOW Wing-kan (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr KWOK Hing-ping (Beginning of the meeting) (2:45 p.m.) Mr KWOK Keung, MH (2:30 p.m.) (3:50 p.m.) Mr KWONG Chun-yu (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr LAI Wai-hung (Beginning of the meeting) (4:20 p.m.) Ms LAU Kwai-yung (Beginning of the meeting) (2:45 p.m.) Mr LEE Yuet-man, MH (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) The Hon LEUNG Che-cheung, (Beginning of the meeting) (2:35 p.m.) BBS, MH, JP Mr LEUNG Fuk-yuen (2:10 p.m.) (4:20 p.m.) Mr LEUNG Ming-kin (Beginning of the meeting) (4:30 p.m.) Mr LUI Kin (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr LUK Chung-hung (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Ms MA Shuk-yin (2:20 p.m.) (End of the meeting) Mr MAK Ip-sing (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr SIU Long-ming (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr TANG Cheuk-him (Beginning of the meeting) (2:45 p.m.) Mr TANG Cheuk-yin (2:30 p.m.) (End of the meeting) Mr TANG Hing-ip, BBS (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr TANG Ho-nin (Beginning of the meeting) (3:45 p.m.) Mr TANG Ka-leung (Beginning of the meeting) (3:45 p.m.) Mr TANG Lai-tung (Beginning of the meeting) (2:50 p.m.) Mr TANG Sui-man (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr TO Ka-lun (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr TSANG Shu-wo (Beginning of the meeting) (2:35 p.m.) Mr WONG Cheuk-kin (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Ms WONG Wai-ling (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Mr WONG Wai-yin, Zachary (Beginning of the meeting) (4:55 p.m.) Mr YIU Kwok-wai (Beginning of the meeting) (2:45 p.m.) Mr YOUNG Ka-on (Beginning of the meeting) (End of the meeting) Ms YUEN Man-yee (Beginning of the meeting) (4:30 p.m.)

1 Secretary : Mr KONG Kwok-piu, Bill Senior Executive Officer (District Council), Office Assistant Secretary : Miss LAM Ka-hing, Alexis Executive Officer I (District Council), Yuen Long District Office

In attendance Mr MAK Chun-yu, Edward, JP District Officer (Yuen Long) Mr WONG Chi-wah, Steve Assistant District Officer (Yuen Long) 1 Mr WU Cheuk-wang, Ricky Assistant District Officer (Yuen Long) 2 Miss CHENG Siu-mui, Cyndia Senior Liaison Officer (Town), Yuen Long District

Office Mr LAM Hon-ming Senior School Development Officer (Yuen Long)1,

Education Bureau Mr CHEUNG Pui-chung District Environmental Hygiene Superintendent (Yuen Long), Food and Environmental Hygiene Department Mr Vasco Gareth Llewellyn Divisional Commander (Yuen Long),

WILLIAMS Police Force Ms WONG Lai-ying Police Community Relations Officer (Yuen Long

District), Hong Kong Police Force Ms JIM Yuk-kuen Senior Housing Manager/Yuen Long, Housing

Department Mr WONG Kin-wai, Kelvin Administrative Assistant/Lands (District Lands

Office, Yuen Long), Lands Department Miss NG Yong, Stella Senior Town Planner/Tuen Mun2, Planning

Department Ms LAM Wai-yip, Michelle District Social Welfare Officer (Yuen Long), Social

Welfare Department Miss LEUNG Pui-yin, Wendy Chief Transport Officer/ North West,

Transport Department

Item 1 Miss CHEN King-sun Assistant Principal Immigration Officer (Removal Assessment and Litigation), Immigration Department

Item 2 Mr WAI Wing-kay, Anthony Chief Structural Engineer/C, Buildings Department Mr YEE Wing-kan Senior Structural Engineer/C3, Buildings Department Mr HUI Ho-yin, Lawrence Senior Structural Engineer/Slope Safety (MW), Buildings Department Mr TSUI Heung-ming Senior Geotechnical Engineer/Mainland West 2, Civil Engineering and Development Department Mr SZETO Wing-kwok Senior Environmental Protection Officer (Regional North)2, Environmental Protection Department Mr LAM Wing-man Senior Town Planner/Enforcement 1, Planning Department

Absent

2 Mr MAN Kwong-ming (Absent due to other commitments) Mr MAN Ping-nam, MH (Absent due to other commitments) Mr TANG Yung-yiu, Ronnie

* * * * *

Opening Remarks The Chairman welcomed Members and representatives from government departments to the 1st special meeting of the Yuen Long District Council (“YLDC”) in 2016 with a view to handling two agenda items, namely “the number of torture/non-refoulement claims and police manpower in Yuen Long District” and the “follow-up actions on site formation works near ”. He especially welcomed the following persons to the meeting:

Senior Town Planner/Tuen Mun2, Planning Department Miss NG Yong, Stella (on behalf of the standing representative, Mr LAM Chi-man, David, District Planning Officer/ & Yuen Long West)

Senior School Development Officer (Yuen Long)1, Mr LAM Hon-ming Education Bureau (on behalf of the standing representative, Mr KWONG Ying-wai, Chief School Development Officer (Yuen Long), Education Bureau)

2. The Chairman asked Members at the meeting if any objection had to be raised against the agenda.

3. Mr LEE Yuet-man, MH thanked the Chairman for his assistance in various aspects and co-ordination with relevant government departments to hold this special meeting. He said that recently, the media had made two enquiries. First, he already proposed on 11 March to hold a special meeting regarding the dumping of debris in Tin Shui Wai. Meanwhile, on 24 March, many Members raised the issues of the law and order situation in Yuen Long District and the soil dump in . He queried why they did not follow the previous practice to list the agenda items in the order that Members raised them. In addition, many members of the media were very concerned that if the discussion of the first agenda item took very long, a lack of quorum and concentration would be likely when moving on to the second agenda item. He had reflected to acquainted media that the decision of the ultimate order of agenda items lied in the Chairman. Members were to put forward issues for discussion only. The date of the meeting and the preparation of the agenda even involved the work of the Secretary of the District Council. These would finally be decided by the Chairman of the District Council. He believed Members would definitely not leave the meeting after completing the first agenda item and would deal with the second item with dedication and professionalism. Also, regarding the naming of agenda items, the item he proposed focused on the so-called “Kingswood Hill” situation near Kenswood Court, , Tin Shui Wai. The agenda item was also named after this. He did not understand why the official name of the item was “follow-up actions on the site formation works near Tin Shui Wai”. There was some discrepancy between this and the original meaning of the item he proposed. He respected the Chairman and the Secretariat on handling the naming of agenda items and held the view that the scope that “near Tin Shui Wai” referred to was remarkably expansive. For example, Lau Fau Shan and , etc. could

3 also be considered the area near Tin Shui Wai. Some also proposed to him whether the dumping of debris in other places, such as the six rural areas in Yuen Long could be discussed in this agenda item at the same time. However, he only meant to focus on discussing the incident of the so-called “Kingswood Hill” by raising this item. Secondly, the term “site formation works” gave a positive perception. For example, the Government sought funding approval from LegCo to carry out site formation works, and the Government obtained funding of $200 million to carry out site formation works in the northeastern part of the New Territories and construct sewers and roads. However, he opined that the incident this time was surely a situation of “soil dump” or “dumping of debris” which was worlds apart from “site formation”, the former being “fly-tipping of debris and construction waste” which was negative and the latter being “site formation works” which was relatively positive. He reiterated that before the meeting, many members of the media did reflect lots of comments to him in relation to the ordering and naming of the agenda items, he therefore hoped to convey the messages to the Chairman and the media in the galleries at the beginning of the meeting.

4. The Chairman said that regarding the ordering of agenda items, he understood Mr LEE Yuet-man was very concerned about the incident of “Kingswood Hill” as reported by the media and his earlier request to convene the special meeting. He understood residents living in Kingswood Villas and its vicinity were also very concerned about the incident, but whether or not to hold a meeting, reference had to be made to the relevant meeting procedures. Under Section 8, Yuen Long District Council Standing Orders (“Standing Orders”), a meeting could normally be convened upon the request of over half of the Members. The Chairman, of course, had the right to decide whether to convene the meeting but there could be no deviation from the provisions in the Standing Orders. Since up to the day the Secretariat ceased to receive District Council’s proposed discussion issues for 19 April (i.e. 24 March), only Mr LEE Yuet-man requested to convene the special meeting, he did not consider it appropriate to hold the meeting at that time. Meanwhile, he even noticed government departments had been following up on the issue. Government departments were already aware of the issues without the special meeting of the District Council. Therefore, taking into account the various factors, such an arrangement was decided. In fact, Members could note from the papers that a total of 13 Members from the four groups submitted discussion items, in the hope to discuss the issues in relation to torture/non-refoulement claimants (commonly known as “bogus refugees”) and the law and order situation in Yuen Long in the meeting on 19 April. After consideration, as residents in Yuen Long District were also concerned about these two issues, he decided to convene this special meeting. As for the ordering of agenda items, since more Members were concerned about the issue of “bogus refugees”, it was placed first on the list. If Members at the meeting today proposed to discuss the issue of the “follow-up actions on the site formation works near Tin Shui Wai” first and if, according to the Standing Orders, over half of the Members at the meeting agreed, the order of the agenda items could be altered. In any event, with the experience gained this time, he would review how to improve the ordering of agenda items in the future. Concerning the naming of agenda items, i.e. why the second item was named as “follow-up actions on the site formation works near Tin Shui Wai”, he noticed a press release from the Government also using the same wording regarding the incident. Therefore, when members of the public read these words, they would understand the same incident was being referred to. As to why the term “Kingswood Hill” wasn’t used, the reason was that the site formation works in question occurred in Heung, not Kingswood Villas and there were other Members raising an incident of a similar nature concerning another site, hoping to discuss it at the meeting. Therefore, it was included in the agenda of the special meeting today to discuss together. In view of this, if the name of the item referred specifically to a place near a particular housing estate, it didn’t seem to be able to reflect the actual situation fully and so

4 the current name was adopted. In any event, under the second agenda item, Members could discuss what the outside called the so-called “Kingswood Hill” incident. He hoped the above information could address Mr LEE Yuet-man’s enquiries.

5. Mr KWONG Chun-yu said as the author of another question in Agenda Item 2, he was very concerned about the fly-tipping of debris and unauthorised development. The so-called “Kingswood Hill” had become one of the “landmarks” whereas the other “landmark” was “Lau Fau Rubbish Hill”. He held the view that the meeting today was appropriate for discussing the two issues together and even the other site mentioned in newspapers this morning. All in all, Members were concerned about the problem of illegal soil dump.

6. The Chairman said if there were no other comments, based on the considerations just now, he suggested the meeting proceed in accordance with the original agenda and discuss Agenda Item 1 first.

Item 1: The number of torture/non-refoulement claims and police manpower in Yuen Long District (YLDC Paper Nos. 23-26/2016) 7. The Chairman invited Members to refer to Paper Nos. 23 to 26 and the replies from the Security Bureau, the Hong Kong Police Force and the Immigration Department. The Chairman said that as the natures of the four questions were related, he proposed to discuss them together.

8. The Chairman welcomed the following department representatives to the meeting to respond to Members’ enquiries:

Hong Kong Police Force Divisional Commander (Yuen Long) Mr Vasco Gareth Llewellyn WILLIAMS Police Community Relations Officer Ms WONG Lai-ying (Yuen Long District)

Immigration Department Assistant Principal Immigration Officer Miss CHEN King-sun (Removal Assessment and Litigation)

9. The Vice Chairman was very disappointed that the Security Bureau (“SB”) was not represented at the meeting today. In fact the current biggest problem for Yuen Long District was insufficient police manpower which was related to allocation of resources at policy level. This problem could only be addressed by adjusting the allocation of resources led by the SB. He considered it not a long-term solution that the Hong Kong Police Force (“HKPF”) would appropriately deploy the operational resources in Yuen Long Police District and the New Territories North Region as mentioned in their written reply. According to the recent census, the population in Yuen Long District had reached over 600 000 to 607 000 which was 30 000 more than the last census. He enquired whether the authorities would increase police strength correspondingly in view of the growing population in Yuen Long District in recent years. A large population in Yuen Long District would mean a large number of refugees making torture/non-refoulement claims which would lead to law and order issues eventually.

5 Stepping up police manpower was urgent. Even though the SB was not represented at the meeting today, the Chairman could reflect Members’ opinions to the SB again through the Secretariat, urging the SB to consider stepping up police manpower in Yuen Long District. Regarding the problem of refugees, he had heard a lot of discussions in the community, including suggesting Hong Kong withdraw from the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (“Convention Against Torture”), and building a refugee camp. These long-term approaches would require some detailed study. However, in the short term, he held the view that the authorities had to expedite as much as possible the screening of some torture claims to clear the backlog that had been held up for a long time. He also hoped the authorities could step up the manpower of adjudicators and the frequency of hearings to address the pressing problems.

10. Mr CHAM Ka-hung Daniel, BBS, MH, JP requested the Police to step up manpower in Yuen Long District. As a Member, he had been raising this appeal constantly over the years. Over the past dozen years, the population in Yuen Long District kept growing. In the coming decade, the various housing development plans would even bring about a lot of people living in the region. The HKPF had to step up manpower to maintain law and order in Yuen Long Police District, especially for the problem of crimes committed by South Asians in the district recently. We could note from the information that the number of crimes committed by torture claimants increased substantially over the previous year, worrying residents in the district. The situation was evident. Most of the time, South Asians gathered to create trouble and commit criminal offences, affecting the daily life of residents. As such, the Police could not shirk the responsibility to combat these crimes. However, the root of the problem lied in the situation that these torture claimants staying in Hong Kong this way would lead to problems in law and order and also affect social stability and residents’ life. Therefore, the Immigration Department (“ImmD”) should speed up the screening procedure. He held the view that the torture claim mechanism had problems as anyone entering the territory of Hong Kong could claim that they were subjected to torture in their place of origin and raise a torture claim to stay in Hong Kong. He said many South Asians and Africans stayed in Hong Kong this way now. Foreign domestic helpers took this as the excuse to stay in Hong Kong too. He was worried that when sex workers in the district were arrested for overstaying in Hong Kong, they could also tell the law enforcement authorities that they would face torture and political persecution in their places of origin. Thus, they would stay in Hong Kong to continue to engage in activities. Therefore, he held the view that the authorities not only had to expedite the screening of torture claims but they also had to consider the need to seek exit from the Convention Against Torture, the latter would be addressing the problem at source. A more efficient solution, of course, was to have the authorities set up a “closed camp” again, requiring persons who claimed that they would be subjected to political persecution on return to their countries, to stay in the camp while pending screening so as to reduce illegal immigration and their incentives to come to Hong Kong through other means. Otherwise, they might work illegally, commit crime or even obtain allowances while staying in Hong Kong where the living conditions might be better than their places of origin. Therefore, to remove this incentive, require claimants pending screening to stay in a “closed camp”, similar to the way the “Vietnamese boat people” were treated in the past. He believed that this could reduce the law and order issues in the community and also the surging situation of illegal immigrants into Hong Kong. He hoped the SB, the ImmD and the relevant departments to consider his views.

11. Mr CHOW Wing-kan enquired whether the Police would consider increasing the number of auxiliary police officers in Yuen Long District and deploying Police Tactical Unit (PTU) officers on patrol to cope with the situation of insufficient police manpower in the

6 district as an immediate measure. There were more than 100 villages within the expansive Yuen Long District. The “refugees” were scattered in the container-type subdivisions of units (commonly known as “subdivided units”) in various villages. He hoped the Police would address Members’ enquiry regarding reinforcing police manpower as soon as possible. In addition, the SB said in the written reply that the Government would conduct a comprehensive review on the strategy in combating illegal immigration and overstaying in four areas, namely pre-arrival control, screening procedures, detention and enforcement and removal. He enquired about the current review progress, what the concrete proposals were and when the review would be completed and reported to the District Council. He recalled that in mid-2015 he had proposed to the SB to set up a “closed camp” to screen the identity of illegal immigrants. He had made reference to the provisions of the Convention Against Torture and opined that such proposed detention or restrictions on the freedom of movement of related persons did not go beyond reasonable limits; and when they entered the territory of Hong Kong illegally, the authorities did not place them under quarantine. If these illegal immigrants were scattered among the community, not only would it be a hidden risk for law and order but also hard to control other aspects, including the provision of allowances and the provision of education for children. Temporarily arranging them in a place with proper management would be a better approach. He had stationed in “closed refugee camps” and “open refugee camps” when working as a Correctional Officer previously, so he knew the former way was effective. If these people were really subjected to torture or other persecutions in their home countries, they would be very willing to co-operate with the authorities, assisting to adduce evidence as soon as possible to verify their “refugee” status, seeking asylum from other countries, unlike the current illegal immigrants who took “refugee” as an excuse and refused to co-operate with the authorities, stalling indefinitely to stay in Hong Kong. Therefore, the authorities had to screen for “illegal immigrants” and real “refugees”. The most effective approach was to require them to co-operate with the authorities within a timeframe. If they were verified to be “refugees” after screening, arrange them to stay in an “open camp”. They would have to, of course, observe all camp rules, including no working outside and returning to the camp every night, under management until other countries offered asylum. He continued to point out that the Vietnamese refugee camps set up by the Government in the past was effective. He hoped the Government would consider setting up such camps again. He added that during the time the Vietnamese refugees were repatriated, the authorities could repatriate tens of thousands of them within a short time and required them to sign some papers and required the receiving country to guarantee that the refugees would not be subjected to torture again after returning to the country. He noticed that in the recent one to two years, 40% of the torture/non-refoulement claimants were Vietnamese. The remaining 60% came from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and other such generally stable countries not at war. He suggested the Government consider exploring ways with the countries of origin of the above claimants to screen claimants and require these countries to guarantee that these people would not be subjected to torture again after repatriation.

12. Mr LEE Yuet-man, MH said that it was a humanitarian act that the international community allowed torture claimants to seek political asylum. He believed the international community would also provide temporary shelter for refugees subjected to torture to prevent their lives from being threatened. He opined that it was basically acceptable for Hong Kong, as a developed economy, to provide a temporary habitat for refugees or torture claimants. However, the biggest problem lied in two aspects: first, the authorities took quite a long time in screening torture claims which was susceptible to abuse. He believed that in order to make the screening of whether the claimants were refugees or subjected to political persecution work, the SB and relevant departments should be equipped with sufficient manpower and resources. If manpower and resources were in lack, LegCo should approve

7 funding as soon as possible to increase the resources of relevant departments to expedite the screening of claims. He held the view that the authorities should verify as soon as possible whether claimants were truly subjected to political persecution and repatriate immediately the “bogus refugees” who were not subjected to political persecution. Meanwhile, offer assistance to those subjected to political persecution. This would be the correct direction for dealing with this problem. Secondly, regarding how to settle the torture claimants in Hong Kong, the setting up of “closed refugee camps” by the Government might have been acted out of expediency in view of the influx of Vietnamese refugees flooding Hong Kong at that time. It might not be effective for the current situation, so he enquired whether the authorities would consider setting up only a “semi-closed” camp. For example, people arranged to stay in the camp could go out during daytime but would have to return to the camp before a certain time at night. Some restrictions should also be set to constrain their activity appropriately. Finally, he said torture claimants mainly concentrated in Yuen Long District. He hoped the Police would, based on this reason, discuss with the SB to increase police manpower in Yuen Long District immediately; meanwhile, he urged the authorities to establish an independent police district in Tin Shui Wai so as to have sufficient manpower and resources to deal with problems. He considered it exerting great pressure on the present police manpower constraint whether or not the claimants were real refugees as a large number of non-ethnic Chinese people would appear in Yuen Long District and hoped the HKPF representative at the meeting would reflect the views to the Secretary for Security and the Commissioner of Police. As the Chairman of District Fight Crime Committee (Yuen Long District), he would urge the Police to strengthen manpower in this regard and also hoped that the Police could deploy officers from New Territories North Region to Yuen Long District to cope with the unique law and order problems in Yuen Long District.

13. The Hon LEUNG Che-cheung, BBS, MH, JP said Yuen Long District had been beset with problems relating to torture claims, especially when there was a higher concentration of torture claimants in Yuen Long District. He had discussed with some social workers who specialised in counselling these people and understood it was a grave problem. These people did not co-operate with social workers most of the time. The social workers arranged to meet them but they were often late for or left the meeting early, or were absent from it. Hong Kong was much beset with the overstaying of torture claimants. Not only did the Government spend a lot of public funds dealing with this problem but it also had to deal with the various problems caused by torture claimants overstaying in Hong Kong. He had discussed with the Police Community Relations Officer (Yuen Long District) the situation of crimes committed by “bogus refugees” or even refugees in the district and understood the Police had contributed great efforts in dealing with the problem but the residents were still concerned. Recently, he also inspected at sea with some fishermen the routes used by illegal immigrants and understood that once the stowaways entered the waters of Hong Kong claiming to be “refugees”, the Government would have to verify their identity which was very hard to avoid, in particular, the expansive Yuen Long District made stowaways enter the territory of Hong Kong even more easily. He opined that apart from Members’ suggestions of dealing with it at source just now, including expediting the screening of torture claims, increasing the manpower of relevant departments and increasing penalties, gatekeeping by the Police was, in fact, also very important. If the Police did not allow stowaways to enter the waters of Hong Kong as much as possible, the chance that they became “refugees” would decrease. In addition, for some refugees already in Hong Kong, relevant departments, including the HKPF, could enhance some community work to help with their integration into the community, achieving the goal of building a harmonious community. Otherwise, he feared that if some of the crimes committed by the refugees turned into “ethnic conflicts”, it would be a tragedy for the society of Hong Kong. Therefore, he hoped that all sectors could communicate and connect more with the South Asians, organising activities or

8 even providing counselling for them and hoped that the relevant departments could be the coordinators.

14. Mr LEUNG Fuk-yuen said after overcoming many difficulties, the Government solved the problem of Vietnamese boat people in the past and now it was a pity that “bogus refugees” made torture claims to stay in Hong Kong, leading to law and order problems in the community, resulting in Yuen Long District, where there was a high concentration of these people, being ridiculed as the “Sin City”. He held the view that there were a few land boundary control points in Yuen Long District. Apart from stepping up police manpower in Yuen Long District, the Police had to work with Mainland authorities to tighten frontier patrol and intercept stowaways. There was quite a high concentration of ethnic minorities in Yuen Long District. Law and order as a whole was deteriorating with “bogus refugees” committing crimes. Shap was located in the periphery of . Many ethnic minorities lived in the rural squatter huts and container subdivided units. It was often heard that they got drunk, caused trouble and got into fights, making residents in the district, especially women coming home late at night, anxious. Also, he considered it a significant deterrent effect to people intending to smuggle into Hong Kong by setting up a “closed camp” and arranging claimants pending screening to stay in the camp, confining their access range to prohibit them from moving around freely in the streets. He hoped the authorities would set up such camp with emergency funding to achieve instant results.

15. Mr MAK Ip-sing said residents in Yuen Long District were very concerned due to the law and order problems in the district now. First, several recent serious crimes all involved South Asians. Secondly, residents perceived that very few police officers were patrolling streets. He enquired about the current police strength in Yuen Long District. Although the Police responded that there were 1 000 officers working on three shifts, the population in Yuen Long was around 600 000. Calculating on the basis of the population of 600 000, there would only be 1 policeman for every 600 residents. Hong Kong has a population of 6.8 million and a total of 28 000 police officers. In other words, there was 1 policeman per 243 people. The two ratios showed a significant difference. The police-to-population ratio in Yuen Long District was 45% of that of the normal ratio. As only a small number of police officers patrolled the streets, it was difficult to improve law and order and residents also felt insecure. The SB always boasted Hong Kong as a safe city. Now that there was insufficient police strength in Yuen Long District, it was difficult to achieve community safety. Yuen Long District was currently experiencing grave law and order problems but there were only 1 000 police officers on three shifts deployed to three police stations in the district, i.e. about 300 officers per station. At this level of manpower, it was difficult to maintain the frequency of patrols. The Security Bureau, in charge of the law and order policy in Hong Kong and not represented at the meeting today, should be condemned. In addition, he made enquiries of the ImmD about the number of cases of torture claims and the number of persons holding the recognisance form issued by the ImmD. He even queried if frontier controls of the Mainland and Hong Kong were slackened and so stowaways could enter Hong Kong so easily. Otherwise, if the two places had been liaising closely, the stowaways should have been intercepted at the frontiers. He opined that if there was negligence about the frontier control of Hong Kong, the SB should be severely condemned.

16. Mr LUK Chung-hung said as part of the international community, , including Hong Kong, in fact, had the responsibility to take care of some “real refugees” who were subjected to torture, but for those “bogus refugees” who had their own agenda and smuggled

9 into Hong Kong in disguise, whether it was setting up a “closed camp” or expediting screening, we would have to handle it pragmatically. He suggested that if torture claimants were repeatedly absent from screening interviews arranged by the authorities without reasonable cause, the authorities could regard them as non-refugees and speed up the screening of claims with similar means which would reduce the situation of people pending screening of their refugee status staying in Hong Kong. He opined that the “bogus refugees” did not only lead to law and order problems but they also damaged racial harmony and the image of ethnic minorities. Among the many ethnic minorities he knew, many already had the Hong Kong Permanent Identity Card, truly a Hongkonger. However, the tumult of “bogus refugees” this time had damaged their image and affected them innocently and at the same time affected Hong Kong’s multi-racial harmony. He held the view that they should face up to the situation. He also hoped that all sectors in society could distinguish clearly between the ethnic minorities who lived in Hong Kong and obeyed the law, and those “bogus refugees” who contravened the law. The Government could not shirk the responsibility to combat crimes. However, we noticed that police strength in Yuen Long Town and Tin Shui Wai had been staying weak, as Mr MAK Ip-sing said just now, not proportional to population. Coupled with the growing number of subdivided units in Yuen Long District rented to “bogus refugees” or people pending verification of their refugee status, the number of such people had increased in Yuen Long District. The law and order situation in the district had changed, consuming lots of police manpower. Under normal circumstances, police manpower in Yuen Long District was already under strain, so he hoped the authorities could strengthen police manpower in the district. In expanded form, currently, Hong Kong was facing various challenges in law and order. Strengthening police manpower should be territory-wide. He believed after strengthening police manpower, more officers would be on patrol and definitely able to respond swiftly to all kinds of emergencies and at the same time the public could live in an even safer community.

17. Mr YIU Kwok-wai said the problem of refugees was one of the problems of globalisation, involving a number of situations but the one that we were concerned most was the humanitarian issue. Whether we should receive refugees and provide them with assistance on humanitarian grounds; whether we should set a more stringent or lenient screening mechanism, etc., there was still much room for discussion. However, the emergence of the problem of “bogus refugees” in Yuen Long District showed that there were loopholes in the system in Hong Kong. In addition to loopholes, some even exploited the loopholes on purpose to cause social problems. First, some considered the mechanism relatively lenient. People could just stay in Hong Kong for some time as long as they claimed they would be subjected to torture and the screening procedures did take quite a long time. Moreover, our assessment branch was understaffed which led to the relatively long processing time of such cases of claims, or maybe the number of refugees or claimants flooding in was not in proportion and so generating a backlog and loopholes which was in dire need of the Government to proactively seek a solution. The problem of “bogus refugees” would first generate some potential or actual law and order problems. We could often notice that residents would feel unease when some non-ethnic Chinese people gathered together. Residents would worry whether they carried ill intentions. He opined that residents’ fear could only be eliminated if the Police stepped up patrol. Secondly, as a member of the union, he was concerned about the situation of claimants taking up employment illegally. The opportunity to seek unlawful employment was also an incentive for them to stay in Hong Kong. To sum up, these law and order problems could only be dealt with by stepping up manpower and patrol by the Police. However, from another perspective, he considered it unfair to only request frontline police officers to deal with the issue of “bogus refugees”. The authorities had to allocate resources to strengthen the overall manpower of relevant departments, referring the problem of law and order to the Police and

10 the problem of illegal workers to the ImmD and the Labour Department. However, in view of the frequent filibustering at LegCo, he hoped the authorities would consider addressing the above problems with administrative measures.

18. Mr TANG Ho-nin said Heung had been beset with problems relating to torture claims and “bogus refugees” for as long as six to seven years which were discussed at the meetings of rural committee every time. He felt strange that Members were suddenly concerned about these problems today because they didn’t just surface within the recent couple of years. The problems were highlighted just due to a certain newspaper recently that ridiculed Yuen Long as the so-called “Sin City” every day, criticising the incompetence of the Police. In fact, what the newspaper said was not true. He would like to take this opportunity to thank the Police, in particular, the thoroughly exhausted police officers of Pat Heung Police Station, who took stringent enforcement actions against the trouble-provoking torture claimants. Helpless as it might be, he had seen a number of examples where even if the offenders were brought to court, be it suspected drug possession or assault, they would be released eventually. He once lodged a complaint with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (“UNHCR”), but they only responded that it was being followed up; the ImmD even said the authorities could not detain them if they had not committed a serious offence. He also mentioned a serious case in Kam Tin Heung. An arson attack, carried out by an African, occurred at Cheung Chun Yuen, a Grade I historic building, destroying antique furniture and artefacts inside the building. The Police arrested the suspect but he was eventually released. He opined that even if the Police were committed to law enforcement, arriving at the scene in the first instant to arrest the suspect upon receipt of a report every time, the suspect would have to be released eventually. Problems did exist in the system. He held the view that the Africans smuggled into Hong Kong from the Mainland. He proposed that the Government should discuss with Mainland authorities on ways to intercept them. Meanwhile, the Government should not be over-cautious and should request to seek exit from the Convention Against Torture to prevent the problem from worsening, turning Hong Kong into a sin city. He also supported the setting up of a “closed camp”, adopting the approach that confined the Vietnamese refugees in the past to handle the related people to eliminate their incentive to smuggle into Hong Kong. Otherwise, after they had sneaked into Hong Kong, enjoying not bad the living conditions, the problem would be difficult to solve ultimately. He urged the Government to face up to the problem and support the work of the Police.

19. Mr TANG Ka-leung said what the Hong Kong public was concerned most today was the problem of “bogus refugees” which created anxiety and panic among the public. As to why there were so many “bogus refugees” bringing about so much nuisance and leading to the occurrence of crimes today, there were various reasons. He considered that the Police had already tried their best, so the spearhead should not be pointed at them; but if the problem had to be addressed at source, stopping the influx of “bogus refugees”, Hong Kong must withdraw from the Convention Against Torture. Having seen the concerns among so many members of the public, the Hong Kong SAR Government should seek exit from the Convention, restoring peace and prosperity in Hong Kong. As for the problem of the source of refugees, Lau Fau Shan had been a black spot of illegal immigration. He had served as a policeman stationed in Lau Fau Shan. As viewed from the manpower of the Police today, it was impossible to set up outposts along the vast coastline to intercept illegal immigrants. The Police were already strained dealing with the problem of “bogus refugees” today. Even if they had caught the illegal immigrants, they had to hire interpreters, spending lots of resources and time dealing with each case. We could also notice today that criminals organised illegal immigrants to come to Hong Kong. To address the problem at source, the

11 Government should withdraw from the Convention Against Torture as soon as possible. The problem could not continue to deteriorate.

20. Mr WONG Wai-yin, Zachary said as many Members had just mentioned, all sectors were very concerned about this problem currently, but the pace of the SB seemed very slow. Whether it was in the aspect of police manpower, the immigration policy or the handling of refugees, the SB should be the bureau dealing with this problem. However, unfortunately, only the public, Members and the media were worried and hurried. The SB was unruffled. He would like to stress particularly that in the discussion of “real refugees” and “bogus refugees”, we kept focusing on “bogus refugees”. He opined that both “real refugees” and “bogus refugees” could not commit crime and both must also be brought to justice after committing crime. The media suddenly made this problem a heated hype in the past two to three weeks. News was also widespread over short messages. He recalled that one to two months ago, there was news that knife-wielding South Asians injured passers-by along a street in Yuen Long Town, which was later clarified by the Police to be untrue. He also wrote to the Police at that time that circulating false news that caused panic should be a crime. The Police had to locate those who circulated the news. He was worried that after such news was circulated, the public would carry fear once they encountered coloured people, resulting in unnecessary panic. We couldn’t blame Hong Kong people for it because in fact most of them obtained the news from the media or short messages. The Government should clarify and explain as soon as possible. A few Members raised the questions this time but the written replies from the Police seemed to be stereotyped with contents like a “skeleton key” which could be used to answer not only this issue but also any issues relating to law and order. As Mr MAK Ip-sing said the police manpower was 1 000 on three shifts in Yuen Long District, i.e. over 300 per shift. Taking holidays into account, there should be fewer than 300 per shift. Of whom, there were even civilian staff and so the number of police officers who could be on patrol was believed to be very small. He once enquired whether the Police had stepped up manpower in Yuen Long District in the recent five years but did not receive any reply. He believed that the police manpower in Yuen Long District was definitely not sufficient.

21. Mr LAI Wai-hung said the number of South Asians and other ethnic minorities living in Kam Tin Heung and Pat Heung had increased recently. He considered it a problem of the entire society. If the Government had handled it well, there would not have been so many crimes involving these people. The reason was simple. Taking refugees as an example, they smuggled into Hong Kong, were arrested and then released. They only had $1000 to $2000 of allowance per month which made their life difficult. They needed to make a living and would have to find jobs. They didn’t have legitimate employment opportunities and so took up illegal work after a number of referrals by friends. He believed the problem could be solved if the Government had handled it properly, finding the right place for them, as in the Vietnamese refugee camps in the past, requiring them to return to the camp at night. In addition, he often saw South Asians gathering at the playground in , Pat Heung to carry out religious activities which was due to the lack of relevant venues. He suggested the Government provide them with some suitable venues so that ethnic minorities could lead a normal community life, which, he believed, could avoid many crimes.

22. Mr LUI Kin said the number of torture claimants currently in Hong Kong had surged. As a cosmopolitan city, Hong Kong should carry the duty to protect asylum seekers on humanitarian grounds. But in fact, among the torture claimants now, we saw around 1% being qualified finally, which showed that the mechanism was completely abused.

12 Therefore, the Government would have to tighten the mechanism timely to prevent people from abusing torture claims, threatening Hong Kong’s law and order. The biggest problem now was not only about the Government spending over $700 million of public funds a year to settle these people. More importantly, it was about the psychological threats these people posed to residents, causing fear in the entire society and generating conflicts and contradictions among different races. As such, he felt that intercepting these people from entering Hong Kong at source should be a solution, followed by reducing their incentive to come to Hong Kong. He was not going to repeat the various methods raised by Members just now but he had to stress that regarding interception at source, the influx of illegal immigrants in Hong Kong had decreased in the past two decades and so the manpower of neither the Marine Police nor the Border District had increased. In 2014, there were more than 3 800 cases of illegal immigration in Hong Kong, grown five to six-fold compared to over 700 cases in 2012. The Police were now facing an imminent need to increase manpower. However, he had heard a lot of the so-called pan-democratic Council representatives who opined that the number of police officers was insufficient and supported the increase of manpower. He felt that these representatives were just bragging. Their LegCo representatives rejected whatever was put forward by the Police. Whether the Police proposed to have additional equipment or manpower and retrofit with police stations, all the representatives voted against them at meetings of the Finance Committee, the Establishment Subcommittee and the Public Works Subcommittee at LegCo. They should be held partly responsible for the deteriorated law and order situation in Hong Kong, therefore. He commended Yuen Long Police District for their very efforts in combating crimes involving South Asians, including his Fung Nin Constituency. Whenever there were cases involving South Asians, the Police solved every of them. He had to take this opportunity to thank the Police. In addition, over the past two decades, there had been no influx of illegal immigrants. Border patrol in the Mainland might have slackened. The region along Hongshulin, to was all devoid of safety fences. He suggested the authorities consider strengthening liaison with the Mainland through the /Hong Kong Cooperation Joint Conference to intercept illegal immigrants and reinforce the intercepting power of the Frontier Police in the Mainland. The penalties for illegally crossing a national border were much heavier in the Mainland than in Hong Kong. The crime of organising people to cross a national border secretly carried a sentence of two years to life imprisonment, but in Hong Kong, as Members had just mentioned, the illegal immigrants would be released after a short detention. In addition, in the aspect of reducing the incentive, he was in favour of setting up a “closed camp” to restrict the freedom of movement of the people concerned. Further on, regarding handling the problem at source, the authorities should consider quitting the Convention Against Torture to prevent illegal immigrants from taking the advantage to come to Hong Kong, pursuing long-term stay in Hong Kong while pending screening, consuming our public funds and affecting Hong Kong’s law and order.

23. Mr WONG Cheuk-kin said the most frequently discussed issue in Hong Kong these ten years was what real and fake were. Regarding the differences between “real refugees” and “bogus refugees”, one should reflect upon themselves whether it was out of their likes, dislikes or failure to understand; whether all illegal immigrants had to be repatriated immediately; if there were illegal immigrants from Taiwan or Japan, whether the way we handled them would be the same as the way we handled those from the Mainland. The criteria to answer these questions, he believed, would have to be given to us one by one by the SB. In the Hong Kong Film Awards Presentation Ceremony which had just finished, an officiating guest quoted a famous saying from a politician: the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. We should ponder whether law and order in Yuen Long District was this poor, whether South Asians were very dangerous as Members just mentioned. In as early as

13 January this year, short messages spread the news that South Asians were disturbing law and order in Yuen Long. The news was actually incorrect after confirmation by the Police in Yuen Long. He recalled that the Police in Yuen Long held a meeting afterwards, mentioning some figures, pointing out that during the period of January to October, 2015, there were 31 robberies in Yuen Long District, only 7 of which involved non-ethnic Chinese, including not only South Asians but also Europeans. Non-ethnic Chinese accounted for about 5% of the population in Yuen Long. The crimes they committed were usually related to disputes among their own race of people, not local residents. Since he was a member of the Post-Release Supervision Board under the SB, he purposely made enquiries of the Correctional Services Department about the percentage of South Asian prisoners who did not hold a Hong Kong Identity Card, which was only 1.5%, also fewer than prisoners of other nationalities. Thus, the crime rate of Yuen Long District relative to other districts was not particularly bad. He could not see either that only in Yuen Long District would there be so many non-ethnic Chinese committing crime. Of course, as other Members had said, it was beneficial to step up police manpower, but other than this, he opined that with the times progressing continuously, technology could solve many things. For example, the authorities could consider the possibility of increasing the resources for the installation of more CCTVs to alleviate the workload of frontline police officers; the possibility of improving the design of roads and street lamp lighting, with the assistance of the District Council and relevant departments, at some crime black spots to reduce the likelihood of crimes occurring. Finally, he urged the SB to respond to the aspirations of Members and the New People’s Party as soon as possible. In other words, he hoped the authorities could set up a closed refugee camp for the proper management of some non-ethnic Chinese people pending screening of torture claims.

24. Mr TANG Hing-ip, BBS held the view that the problem was, in fact, very difficult to solve if Hong Kong did not make reference to the views of The Hon Ambrose Lee Siu-kwong, former Secretary for Security, to withdraw from the Convention Against Torture. People criticised the refugee screening process was slow which was, in fact, debatable. To reliably confirm the identity of a refugee who was subjected to torture, there had to be the collection of information and intelligence from all aspects which would be very difficult to complete within a short time. The SB’s work in this regard was understandable. In fact, he agreed very much with Mr WONG Cheuk-kin that according to figures, law and order in Yuen Long District had been very stable these few years with no significant increase in the number of crimes. It was a stable community. However, he had a question which was whether the occurrence of more law and order problems eventually was due to a higher concentration of South Asians in Yuen Long District. But in fact, the South Asians we saw in Yuen Long District were living quite harmoniously in the community and the village. Their intent to commit crime was not high. Otherwise, if they, in general, had the criminal intent or were violence-prone, problems would occur frequently. He opined that if Hong Kong was to solve the problem of refugees, one factor had to be considered, which was serious cooperation between Guangdong and Hong Kong to intercept illegal immigrants at source so that “bogus refugees” could not flood into Hong Kong. In fact, the problem for Hong Kong now was “bogus refugees” and the 150 One-way Permit holders every day, causing tremendous pressure to Hong Kong and leading to more crimes and violence. Hong Kong was so densely populated. Conflicts and frictions could occur anytime which Hong Kong people did not want to see. Under the existing circumstances of the Yuen Long community, the manpower of police had not increased over the years. We all agreed social stability was a basic element. More police manpower could guarantee law and order in Yuen Long District.

14 25. Mr TANG Cheuk-yin opined that the problems in question now mainly lied in the Government’s willingness to deal with them at source. If the Government was determined, other problems could also be solved accordingly. For example, the closed refugee camp that Members mentioned could, in fact, be effective. Basically, if a closed refugee camp was set up to confine the movement of the people concerned, it would reduce a lot of economic incentives, deterring those intended to smuggle into Hong Kong. From the current situation of Kam Tin Heung and Pat Heung, previously there was a tragic incident of a refugee being burnt to death in a metal hut in Ng Ka Tsuen. Various departments and UNHCR inspected the scene and found that the installations in the hut, including the supply of electricity and LPG, were all substandard. Currently, a lot of places in the rural area had been rented to these people. The Government allowed them to stay in Hong Kong and so was responsible for paying attention to their safety at home before accidents occurred. He also pointed out a few cases in Kam Tin Heung. Several recognisance-form holders caused disturbance to law and order in that district. The residents there reported it to the Police and the Police processed it immediately every time, but the court often sentenced them to just a one to two-month jail term, lacking deterrent effect, making people dissatisfied. Now the exaggerated law and order situation in Yuen Long District made headlines of newspapers. The Government should consider the need to deal with the imminent problems. The meeting was now held and we had raised a lot of opinions, but the most important thing was the Government had to actually deal with the problems.

26. Mr TO Ka-lun said the Police’s efforts and strength as a law enforcement agency and whether they handled the issues appropriately were evident. He took the opportunity to thank the Police again for their enforcement actions in Yuen Long District. We knew that with limited police manpower, they had already done their best in all respects. However, another problem was that the SB was not represented at the meeting today which was very disappointing. We would love to hear about the relevant figures and the approaches in the policy aspects. Without this information, we could only know how to react after reading the exaggerated law and order situation of Yuen Long from newspapers and magazines, similar to the public. Mr WONG Cheuk-kin had mentioned the relevant figures, but we should explore what the truth was. He also thanked Mr TANG Hing-ip for raising the issue. Only concrete figures could let us truly understand the situation of crime in Yuen Long District. If we could only rely on speculation or take some criminals as the general image of ethnic minorities, “tarring them with the same brush” or treating all South Asians and Africans as criminals, it would be an unsuccessful way of thinking. In addition, we mentioned the issue of the United Nations Refugees Convention and the Convention Against Torture. In fact, Hong Kong had never signed the Refugees Convention. The Refugees Convention and the Convention Against Torture were signed by China and so Hong Kong had to implement the relevant provisions. As for the opinion of seeking exit from the Convention Against Torture by the former Secretary for Security, he found it preposterous. The intent of that Convention was not just to protect the human rights of foreign refugees but to first protect the human rights of local citizens or residents. He hoped that Members would be deliberate when advising Hong Kong to withdraw from the Convention. Finally, he opined that the law and order problem should be handled with a law and order approach, not with struggles between political parties. Meanwhile, the authorities also needed to address the problems at source which should be handled at a diplomatic level. The SB should discuss with some places of origin of South Asians, such as India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka to deal with the problem of illegal immigration of their nationals to Hong Kong, instead of the District Council seeking ways to deal with problems that Hong Kong had to work together with other countries to address them.

15 27. Ms CHAN Mei-lin said Members had just mentioned that they had come across some non-ethnic Chinese people. For example, Mr TANG Hing-ip saw them living harmoniously in the community; another Member also came across some unlawful non-ethnic Chinese. In fact, we could see from the crime figures that the number of crimes committed by these people was not particularly high which was also reported by the Police. She found that the Police were already cracking cases in Yuen Long District with due diligence. The police officers she had come across were all very dedicated. However, the current population of Yuen Long District was 600 000, including the 300 000 in Tin Shui Wai. There were many new development projects and housing constructions in the district. The future population could increase by 80 000 or 100 000. It would be tough to take care of such a large district with the current police manpower. Therefore, several Members proposed the agenda to urge the Police to strengthen their manpower in Yuen Long District with additional resources from the SB, but unfortunately, the SB was not represented at the meeting. She hoped the SB could increase the police manpower in Yuen Long Police District, including Tin Shui Wai and , to strengthen crime prevention, boosting the confidence of residents in Yuen Long District. Secondly, the crime figures we saw involved non-ethnic Chinese, people of other nationalities and local people. The Police had taken law enforcement actions against the offenders and the court also had their justifications in their rulings. We just hoped the SB, as a policy bureau to maintain law and order in Hong Kong, could face up to the public’s concern. A few recent cases had sparked strong repercussions from society, particularly the negative impact imparted to Yuen Long District. In fact, the quality of law and order in Hong Kong and the results of Police’s work could only be maintained if the authorities performed a careful study on the remedies, for example, intercepting the continuous influx of illegal immigrants. In conclusion, she hoped the SB could intercept illegal immigrants at source at various control points and the Government could allocate more resources to deploy more manpower to support the Police so that law and order in Yuen Long District would become better.

28. Mr KWONG Chun-yu said a few months ago, there was an unconfirmed audio clip in Yuen Long District, widespread overnight. The clip was widely redistributed via short messages. It mentioned purported street robberies in Yuen Long District by knife-wielding South Asians. He recalled that he received a lot of phone enquiries in the small hours that night. In fact, he had to thank many members of the public for their concern on the incident and many friends for their instant confirmation on the authenticity of the incident which was clarified by the Police to be untrue the next day. He held the view that though the incident was untrue, Yuen Long District could not just slacken off. Police manpower in Yuen Long District absolutely needed to be strengthened to maintain law and order, not permitting anyone to break the law. A Member mentioned a famous saying just now, “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself” which came from the former President of the United States, Franklin D. Roosevelt. Roosevelt, in his first radio show “Fireside Chats”, told the Americans not to fear the economic crisis in the most intimate way and words because if the American people feared, everyone would evade problems and the economy would completely collapse. The same principle applied here. It was quite appropriate to use the situation of the US at that time to describe the current law and order situation in Yuen Long District. The question would be how to make the public not fear. A department told him Yuen Long District’s law and order was stable and where feasible, police manpower had been enhanced as much as possible to maintain law and order in the district. He hoped the authorities could later explain the relevant figures. As regards the SB not represented at the meeting today, Members expressed regrets. In fact, we all held the view that the authorities should pay more attention to the law and order situation in Yuen Long District and let Members have more handy information. In addition, the most important thing was that the authorities had to be able to locate the source of crime, taking law enforcement actions against the offenders

16 so that residents’ fear would not expand, affecting all the South Asians in the district.

29. Mr LEUNG Ming-kin said the law and order problem due to a high concentration of ethnic minorities had been affecting Yuen Long District for a long time. It would be the best approach if the authorities could, where discretion was permitted under the policies, set up a “closed camp” for “bogus refugees”. Meanwhile, in addition to daytime, he also hoped the Police could deploy more officers on patrol at night. Recently, there had been a case near La Grove, , where a woman coming home late at night was robbed of her handbag by three South Asians at 11 p.m. Therefore, he hoped that, in addition to mobile patrol in rural areas, the Police would deploy officers to patrol pedestrian walkways. He also hoped the authorities would consider seeking exit from the Convention Against Torture. Furthermore, apart from policy and law enforcement, he proposed that the authorities could deal with the issue of South Asians by starting from education. If a positive message could be conveyed to South Asians and hence their entire community, putting them on the right track, it would be an even better approach. The problem of South Asians was now imminent. There might be grey areas for criminals to take the opportunity to continue to commit crime before the authorities could implement even more stringent policies. He hoped the authorities could take corresponding measures as soon as possible, for example, stepping up patrol at black spots of illegal immigration and repatriating “bogus refugees” as soon as possible.

30. Mr Vasco Gareth Llewellyn WILLIAMS, the Divisional Commander (Yuen Long) of the Hong Kong Police Force’s consolidated response was set out below:

(1) He thanked Members for their questions and comments. As for the overall crime figures of Hong Kong, in the first two months of 2016, the Police arrested a total of 4 940 people, 703 of whom were non-ethnic Chinese, which accounted for 14.2%. As regards the figures of Yuen Long Police District, the number of people arrested in the corresponding period was 485, 69 of whom were non-ethnic Chinese, which accounted for 14.2%; comparing with the territory-wide figures, the crime figures of Yuen Long District were not particularly large;

(2) In practice, police manpower was not calculated according to the increase or decrease of population. The increase of manpower had to be based on a number of factors. The manpower in Yuen Long Police District, including plain-clothes and uniformed police officers, was about 1 000. Yuen Long Police District would also be supported by the Police Tactical Unit (i.e. blue-beret police officers) of New Territories North Region, the Quick Reaction Force of New Territories North Region and the crime officers, particularly in large-scale operations. As to a Member opining that uniformed police officers were rarely seen patrolling streets, in fact, quite a number of police officers were on duty in the district, including uniformed police officers, plain-clothes police officers of the Task Force and other plain-clothes police officers. Some officers were patrolling and performing duties, such as dealing with traffic offences. Meanwhile, some officers would be performing duties in buildings or indoors in response to members of the public. Yuen Long Police District would consider how to strengthen street patrols in response to Members’ comments;

17 (3) Regarding Members’ suggestion to install additional CCTVs, Yuen Long Police District would be very pleased to offer advice on the installation of CCTV systems and encourage the installation for rural villages and shopping malls to enhance security;

(4) As for the border, the Police intercepted illegal immigrants according to intelligence and maintained communication with Mainland authorities. However, owing to the broad waters of Hong Kong, quite a number of illegal immigrants claimed themselves to be refugees once they entered the waters of Hong Kong, pending for screening by the authorities. Therefore, there was a certain degree of difficulty for the Police to take law enforcement actions;

(5) Yuen Long Police District had launched a number of programmes to maintain communication with non-ethnic Chinese people in the district, met regularly with their community leaders and visited their churches and temples to provide crime prevention information. Their imams would also assist to explain to their believers the social customs and taboos in Hong Kong. For non-ethnic Chinese young people, Yuen Long Police District had rolled out Project Himalaya and encouraged them to join Junior Police Call, through which their ability and the confidence to integrate into society in Hong Kong could be enhanced, and young people aspiring to join the Police Force could be nurtured. Meanwhile, Yuen Long Police District had rolled out Project TRANSLINK to provide instant telephone interpretation services by volunteers proficient in non-ethnic Chinese languages to assist frontline police officers to communicate with non-ethnic Chinese people; and

(6) As for the audio clip circulated via short messages earlier, the content was fabricated and unfair to non-ethnic Chinese. On the whole, crimes involving non-ethnic Chinese in Yuen Long District were not particularly serious. They were mainly about shoplifting, unauthorised assembly and other cases on making quick money or relatively minor crimes; people should not prejudice against non-ethnic Chinese.

31. Miss CHEN King-sun, the Assistant Principal Immigration Officer (Removal Assessment and Litigation) of the Immigration Department’s consolidated response was set out below:

(1) She thanked Members for their series of enquiries and comments regarding non-refoulement claims. The ImmD understood the public’s concern on the screening of non-refoulement claims. First, regarding seeking exit from the Convention Against Torture and whether it would assist the screening of non-refoulement claims after withdrawing from the Convention, according to the Unified Screening Mechanism since the Government implemented it on 3 March 2014, not only did the authorities have to process non-refoulement claims made upon the Convention Against Torture, but also to screen the claims pursuant to the Hong Kong Bill of Rights and the two verdicts given by the Court of Final Appeal in December 2012 and March 2013. Under the Unified Screening Mechanism, the ImmD would screen the non-refoulement claims in one-go in accordance with all applicable grounds. In other words, even if Hong Kong withdrew from the Convention Against Torture, it would not relieve the Government of following the Hong Kong Bill of Rights and the verdicts of the Court of Final Appeal to screen the claims. The Government

18 was open-minded towards the proposal to withdraw from the Convention Against Torture and would continue to listen to views from all sectors in this regard;

(2) As indicated in the written reply, in view of the current abuses of the screening mechanism, the Government would conduct a comprehensive review on the strategy of non-refoulement claims by considering four areas. In relation to Members’ views on preventing potential abusers of the mechanism from entering Hong Kong, the authorities would start with pre-arrival controls, in the hope to intercept at source people intending to come to Hong Kong to abuse the mechanism. In the meeting of LegCo Security Panel on 12 April 2016, the Government would propose to revise the provisions relating to “unauthorised entrants” under the Immigration Ordinance, in the hope to expand the definition of illegal immigrants and the coverage of the Ordinance. The relevant provisions on “unauthorised entrants” were originally for illegal immigrants from the Mainland, Macau and Vietnam. However, the potential illegal immigrants now were not limited to the aforesaid three places. As and when appropriate, the authorities hoped to cover all illegal immigrants through this revision to enhance the penalties against human smuggling by sea or land and strengthen the liaison with relevant law enforcement authorities to combat smuggling syndicates and review the visa/visa-free policy as required;

(3) As for screening procedures, many Members had mentioned claimants abusing the mechanism and being uncooperative and so the authorities could not complete the screening procedures swiftly and smoothly. The authorities aimed to hope to stipulate clearly, with legal provisions, the screening procedures under the Unified Screening Mechanism, preventing the stalling tactics. For example, where the claimant failed to attend the screening interview as scheduled without reasonable cause, the authorities could decline to offer an interview opportunity again and process the screening immediately under the available information. In addition, the authorities would examine the possibility of screening out manifestly unfounded claims;

(4) Currently, most non-refoulement claimants were provided with publicly funded legal assistance. One of the authorities’ research directions was to consider the need for a cap on legal fees;

(5) In accordance with relevant laws, claimants could also lodge an appeal against ImmD’s screening decision. The authorities hoped to step up the capacity of the Torture Claims Appeal Board / Non-refoulement Claims Petition Office to process appeals/petitions, expediting the process to clear the backlog to complete the screening procedure;

(6) As for detention, the authorities were considering empowering the ImmD to detain more claimants that would conform to legal and operational requirements, and identifying and refurbishing suitable detention facilities to research into the feasibility of opening a detention centre to centralise claimants pending screening; and

(7) The Government was strengthening the liaison with local Consulate Generals (“CGs”) of major source countries of non-refoulement claimants to expedite the removal process, and stepping up the enforcement against syndicates and criminal activities relating to human smuggling. There were recent reports

19 that some criminals in India were suspected to be arranging Indian nationals to come to Hong Kong under a fictitious asylum visa, providing a range of “services”. The Government was very concerned about this and sent staff to India in December last year to liaise with their local law enforcement agents. The Government would also continue to liaise with the major source countries of other non-refoulement claimants to enhance intelligence exchange and law enforcement work.

32. The Chairman thanked department representatives for their detailed responses and said the overall crime figures in Yuen Long District were stable, not as serious as that reported by the media. He hoped neither Members nor the residents in Yuen Long District should carry any misconceptions about non-ethnic Chinese. Members had raised various views, such as increasing police manpower in Yuen Long District, strengthening cooperation with Mainland law enforcement authorities, intercepting illegal immigrants at source, setting up a “closed camp” for claimants pending screening and expediting screening procedures. As to whether Hong Kong should seek exit from the Convention Against Torture, Members held different opinions. For this controversial issue, department representatives also remarked that withdrawing from the Convention might not be able to address the current problem completely. In any event, he hoped the representatives of the two departments could reflect Yuen Long District Council’s views to the authorities and the authorities would take full account of these views when formulating the related policies.

Item 2: Follow-up actions on site formation works near Tin Shui Wai (YLDC Paper Nos. 27-28/2016) 33. The Chairman invited Members to refer to Paper Nos. 27 to 28 and the joint reply from the Environmental Protection Department (“EPD”), the Civil Engineering and Development Department (“CEDD”), the Buildings Department (“BD”), the Planning Department (“PlanD”) and the Lands Department (“LandsD”). As the content and nature of the two questions were related, the Chairman proposed to discuss them together.

34. The Chairman welcomed the following department representatives to the meeting to respond to Members’ enquiries:

Buildings Department Chief Structural Engineer/C Mr WAI Wing-kay, Anthony Senior Structural Engineer/C3 Mr YEE Wing-kan Senior Structural Engineer/Slope Safety (MW) Mr HUI Ho-yin, Lawrence

Civil Engineering and Development Department Senior Geotechnical Engineer/Mainland West 2 Mr TSUI Heung-ming

Environmental Protection Department Senior Environmental Protection Officer Mr SZETO Wing-kwok (Regional North)2

Lands Department Administrative Assistant/Lands Mr WONG Kin-wai, Kelvin (District Lands Office, Yuen Long) (Standing representative)

20 Planning Department Senior Town Planner/Enforcement 1 Mr LAM Wing-man

35. Mr LEE Yuet-man, MH thanked the Chairman again for convening the special meeting to discuss the illegal soil dump incident (commonly referred to as the “Kingswood Hill” or “waste hill” incident) in Ping Shan Heung and also thanked the media for following up on the incident over the past dozen years. Today, many residents and owners’ committees’ representatives of Kingswood Villas observed the meeting, quite a number of whom had felt frustrated about dealing with the incident, but after wide media coverage now, society was concerned about it again. Today, he hoped to pool the efforts of Members and government departments to solve the problem completely. He and the residents of Kingswood Villas, together with representatives of owners’ committees, raised a 10-point request (note: Mr LEE Yuet-man tabled at the meeting the paper of requests for the departments), in the hope that the departments would respond to their aspirations in detail after the meeting. The problem of soil dump had caused a stir for over a decade since 2003; in 2008, a mound formed, exposing soil. As seen from the photo, the entire “waste hill” was over 10 metres high. Residents of Kingswood Villas explicitly requested the relevant law enforcement authorities to conduct a cross-departmental operation to prosecute the landowners in case of violation and clear all the debris that was illegally dumped onto agricultural land, in accordance with the Town Planning Ordinance (Cap. 131) (“TPO”), restoring the land to its original form as gazetted in 1993. We could also see from the photo that in 2003, there was a little sand depot on that piece of land piled with sand and soil of 30 to 60 centimetres high only. Now it was already more than 10 metres high, a very different scale. The PlanD should institute prosecutions subject to the changes in the “existing use” of the land, but the short-term measures proposed by the Government currently were not desirable. In 2008, the Environmental Protection Department (“EPD”) even required the landowners to hydroseed the land for greening purposes. Trees grew in the next few years, full of greenery. Yet, the BD today suggested concrete spraying and we could see the situation after the little piece of land on the hill was shotcreted. If the entire “waste hill” was shotcreted, it would form into something like a “concrete grave”, which would be difficult for the residents of Kingswood Villas to accept. If the BD and the CEDD pressed ahead the concrete spraying works, residents were bound to be filled with anger. If they were to initiate any radical actions, all the responsibilities had to be borne by the BD and relevant departments. He queried why the authorities had not pointed out that the land, which had never collapsed for years and had even trees and plants holding the soil tightly, would pose a danger and need concrete spraying for reinforcement previously but now it was necessary. It was unacceptable to the residents. He hoped the departments would listen to the above 10-point request and reflect them to the Development Bureau. Residents explicitly demanded the authorities to clear the “waste hill”, as opposed to concrete spraying.

36. Mr CHAM Ka-hung Daniel, BBS, MH, JP strongly supported Mr LEE Yuet-man’s 10-point request and the aspirations raised by various owners’ committees of Kingswood Villas. The emergence of the “waste hill” was clearly due to ineffectiveness in law enforcement by the departments. The authorities only considered dealing with the problem after it was made headlines of newspapers. And what they considered dealing with the problem was only to shotcrete the “waste hill”. He queried whether it was not necessary to bulldoze the “waste hill” after works completion. The “waste hill” would become a fixed concrete structure after shotcreting, similar to a “concrete grave”; if the slope of the “waste hill” posed the danger of collapsing, the authorities should consider hydroseeding since the authorities also adopted this approach in the past when they dealt with dangerous slopes or slopes along highways. This could stabilise the slope and also carry the greening effect. In

21 addition, the Government was completely ineffective in the past in combating fly-tipping of debris. The “waste hill” was formed after years of fly-tipping. Many other places in the New Territories were having a similar situation. He queried that relevant departments had not enforced the law stringently. Since the EPD imposed a charge on the disposal of waste at landfills, dump truck drivers and subcontractors had been constantly looking everywhere for places to dump the construction waste to save money. He had proposed to the authorities to require the installation of a GPS on dump trucks to track vehicles of their dumping locations. If the dump truck driver was not disposing of the waste at landfills but elsewhere, the authorities could institute prosecutions according to the driving record. He enquired about the reasons for the authorities not implementing it after so many years. Mr LEE Yuet-man had been complaining to the authorities regarding the “waste hill” opposite Kingswood Villas, requesting follow-up, but it seemed no departments could help solve the problem. The PlanD remarked that the “existing use” of the said site was for storing sand. Even so, its scale had to be restricted, such as the height of the pile of sand. For example, even stacking a dozen containers in a container yard would not be permitted. Previously, the site was only for small-scale storage of sand. There was no reason to allow it for sand of a few storeys high now. The relevant departments were indeed ineffective in law enforcement. In the past, the authorities had revised the TPO in view of the fly-tipping of debris at agricultural land. An application had to be submitted to the Town Planning Board (“TPB”) for the dumping of debris of over 1.2 metres high. He hoped after the incident had aroused concern in society, the departments would review the work in this regard again, curbing such fly-tipping activities.

37. Mr CHOW Wing-kan said regarding the so-called “Kingswood Hill” which was the focus of the discussion today, he had conducted an on-site inspection with residents in the neighbourhood and learnt from them. It was not the same in nature as the landfilling in other New Territories places because past records clearly pointed out that it was a sand depot. He even recalled that when the authorities developed Tin Shui Wai 20 years ago, the site was indeed used for piling up sand. In the early stages of Tin Shui Wai’s development, most roads were paved with sand and the connecting fishpond in the area was also filled up with sand. The authorities should consider whether it was necessary to retain the sand depot upon the completion of development; and whether the related developers or operators should be responsible for the follow-up work, such as clearing the sand so as not to affect the environment. When the Government approved to set up the sand depot at that site, whether they had considered requiring the people concerned to handle the follow-up actions. He queried about the Government’s responsibility in this regard and, on the other hand, the sand depot was now piled up with sand, the surface of which was covered with soil. He queried where the soil came from. He had also conducted an inspection in the rural areas recently where he saw illegal excavation, levelling off the entire mountain which led to the risk of landslides. The LandsD erected warning signs at the hillside, displaying the warning message of no illegal excavation and landfilling. The Department was obviously aware of the illegal excavation and landfilling activities. He had come across similar scenarios in many New Territories places. Most used construction waste as the base and then covered it with yellow mud, cement or asphalt. In other words, they should explore that the soil covered with sand at the “waste hill” now came from nearby excavation and whether the Government was regulating it. That hill used to be green. As learnt, seeds from nearby trees floated to that area and then trees grew. Now the trees there had been removed, exposing the soil and it was found that someone covered the outside area of where the original sand depot was with sand or even filled up the nearby fishpond. If residents did not want the “waste hill” to turn into a useless fixed structure that caused adverse visual impact, the relevant departments should provide answers for dealing with the accumulation of sand today.

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38. Mr KWONG Chun-yu said the so-called “Kingswood Hill” incident this time had aroused concern in society on the problem of illegal soil dump, involving the work of the EPD, the PlanD, the BD, the CEDD and the LandsD, in various degrees. After the incident, the Government had the responsibility to drive cross-departmental collaboration to deal with the frequent illegal landfilling activities and comprehensively improve the related work. The so-called “Kingswood Hill” made the surroundings dusty, besetting residents in the neighbourhood for more than a decade. Residents did not notice the gravity of the situation until recently that the trees and vegetation on “Kingswood Hill” were all removed, revealing debris. So they self-organised the so-called “waste hill removal” operation. He recalled that the day of the operation was the deadline that the BD required the landowners to take remedial measures against the “waste hill”, but the landowners ignored the Department’s instructions and the residents’ allegations at the scene, and continued with landfilling and excavation. He considered the current regulations not deterrent enough and so the landowners concerned did not follow the law. Only recently when the media pursued things to the utmost did the landowners reluctantly reinforce a small piece of land of the “waste hill”. He stressed that even if debris and rubbish were reinforced, they were still debris and rubbish. In addition, the two-storey high so-called “Lau Fau Rubbish Hill” made of rubbish, in Lau Fau Shan, was paved with bitumen and used for parking to gain profits. Meanwhile, there was also an illegal soil dump, spanning a very large area, in Tai Tong. He held the view that the reason for Yuen Long District becoming a black spot of fly-tipping was the lack of Government’s regulation. The relevant departments had suggested the installation of a GPS on dump trucks to monitor their routes but then nothing followed. Currently, the authorities could invoke the TPO to require landowners to restore the land to its original use, but if the so-called “Kingswood Hill” was to be bulldozed, experts estimated that it would take 3 to 4 months. Coupled with the landowners’ tardiness, they only reinforced a small piece of land and considered it done. The rainy season was approaching. He did not want to see in Hong Kong the collapse of a landfill in Shenzhen earlier, but the reaction from government departments was really disappointing. More and more dumping of debris was discovered in the New Territories. He queried if it showed the lack of effectiveness in law enforcement by front-line departments. The authorities had to consider setting up a cross-departmental coordination mechanism to handle the problem so that Yuen Long District would not become a black spot of fly-tipping of debris.

39. Mr LEUNG Fuk-yuen said Yuen Long was the largest piece of land and plain of Hong Kong. In the coming 10-odd years, the Government would identify new housing sites, with focus in Yuen Long District, to resolve Hong Kong’s housing problem. As all sectors held the view that Yuen Long District was full of problems, he suggested the Government may as well freeze the development of all lands in Yuen Long District so that rural villagers and landowners could carry out farming and afforestation for generations to come. He opined that developing the lands in Yuen Long District was not going to address the housing issue of rural villagers. In addition, the development along Kung Um Road affected over 200 hectares of land, leading to the relocation of the logistics industry and warehouses in that area. He opined that the so-called “waste hill” was a legitimate sand depot 10-odd years ago for the storage of the sand and soil of construction works during the development of Tin Shui Wai New Town. Then vegetation grew, but the vegetation was recently removed. The landowners’ mismanagement and the lack of Government’s supervision resulted in the current situation. He hoped Members could deal with the problem rationally and suggested the Government improve the related monitoring and prosecution work in accordance with prevailing ordinances. Just as after coping with the fly-tipping situation in Lam Tsuen and She Shan Tsuen, , the Government restricted the height of landfilling in the New

23 Territories not to exceed 1.2 metres or an application had to be made to the authorities. After the implementation of the policy, had been discussing with the authorities how to improve the monitoring and prosecution work that would be acceptable to all parties. He opined that he didn’t want Members to politicise the so-called “waste hill” near the time of the LegCo Election to increase their political capital.

40. Mr MAK Ip-sing opined that the appearance of the dune, opposite Kingswood Villas, was akin to the Mausoleum of the First Qin Emperor and the tombs of the emperors of past dynasties. He considered the departments’ replies ironic, especially when the PlanD seemed to explain that the site used to be a sand depot and now the so-called “waste hill” was also for sand so there was no difference. However, Members were actually concerned about whether the sand at the “waste hill” was construction waste, especially when Hong Kong’s construction industry was flourishing previously, whether a proper place was assigned for the lawful dumping of construction waste. He understood the Government had lawful sites in place for dumping construction waste but the charges might be high. For example, it cost more than $1000 for each vehicle of waste; if the dump truck driver could seek the consent of a landowner to dispose of the waste at his land, the charge could be much lower. He opined that there were no farming or development activities at some land in the New Territories. When landowners found that it was profitable, they would permit dump truck drivers to dump the waste at their land with a charge. That was why there was the serious problem of fly-tipping of debris in the New Territories. We were worried today that as Mr LEE Yuet-man described, the greenish place a dozen years ago was gradually becoming the so-called “concrete grave” now. Under such circumstances, relevant departments should consider these follow-up actions: first, review whether the Government had set up sufficient lawful sites for the dumping of debris and whether the fees were reasonable; secondly, how to deal with the problem of fly-tipping of debris and step up law enforcement.

41. Mr LUK Chung-hung said the so-called “Tin Shui Wai Hill” incident was widely reported by the media. As he lived in Kingswood Villas, he was particularly concerned about the problem. As pointed out by the departments’ replies, that piece of land was a sand depot a dozen years ago. He hoped the departments could explain the differences between “sand” and “soil” and whether it was against the law for that site to be covered with soil now, and respond with clarity whether the so-called “waste hill” area currently had gone beyond the sand depot area that it used to be. In addition, if someone was suspected of breaching the law, whether the departments had taken law enforcement actions, such as performing investigation, issuing warnings and imposing penalties. He even enquired whether the departments had received or processed other complaints other than the one lodged by Mr LEE Yuet-man. In addition, he considered the concerned landowners responsible for taking actions if the said hill was involved with law-breaching situations and affecting residents nearby. However, if the landowners were not able to afford the costs of removing the sand and soil, how would the Government deal with it; would there be other options besides concrete spraying; would the sand and soil be removed after concrete spraying works, etc. He suggested that if the relevant parties did not intend to remove the sand and soil, they should consider covering the hill with green vegetation to create an attractive landscape. Also, he complained to the relevant authorities in mid-November last year, pointing out that several pieces of land in Mong Tseng Tsuen, which was outside Tin Heng Estate, were used as warehouses, suspected to be violating the TPO. After investigation, the authorities wrote to the landowners in February this year, requiring them to restore the land to its original use on 4 April. He made enquiries of the LandsD and the PlanD about the progress of the case.

24 42. Mr TANG Hing-ip, BBS strongly agreed with the self-opinionated Mr LEUNG Fuk-yuen. In fact, in this incident, some LegCo Members were aggressive. They knew that the land concerned was private and so even if there were law-breaching situations, they could not trespass on the private land. He commended the Police for stopping some LegCo Members from trespassing on the private land. He saw the confrontation between LegCo Members and the Police when the LegCo Members were stopped by the Police from breaking into the land. He lamented that as LegCo Members, they should not break the law deliberately. Now the department was discussing ways with the landowners and their appointed contractors to deal with the problem. Some Members should not make a fuss about the incident, amplifying it to create political capital. During the time the Government was developing Tin Shui Wai, if the indigenous Yuen Long District residents strongly objected, the district would not have been developed into what we saw today, arousing so much criticism now. He concurred with what Mr LEUNG Fuk-yuen said. If the Government froze all the development of the lands of indigenous New Territories residents, lots of green could be seen. However, in doing so, we had to consider where to have land for housing development to resolve Hong Kong’s housing problem. He hoped that we could understand issues from different perspectives and he strongly disagreed to some Members politicising the incident near the time of the LegCo Election.

43. Mr WONG Cheuk-kin said during the course of housing development and other large-scale projects, the sand depot had been playing its part in terms of usage and had its value of existence. After the sand and soil had been transported to Hong Kong by sea, they would not be immediately delivered to construction sites. Building construction involved a number of steps. Sand and soil might not be required in each step and so some places had to be planned for storing the sand and soil. He made enquiries of the relevant departments whether the authorities had stipulated safety regulations or guidelines for sand depots in view of their various scales in Hong Kong currently to monitor the height of the sand and soil piled up inside. Without an appropriate set of guidelines to deal with the current problem, operators of the sand depots would find it hard to follow and worry that they would be implicated, and the authorities would probably also have difficulty in law enforcement. In addition, he was more worried that in the upcoming rainy season, if the so-called “waste hill” collapsed, whether it would affect the adjacent barbecue area and carpark. Therefore, he hoped the Government would follow up as soon as possible.

44. Mr LEUNG Ming-kin agreed with Mr TANG Hing-ip very much and suggested the Government resume the land of the so-called “Kingswood Hill” for housing development to increase housing supply. Meanwhile, the Government should conserve the undeveloped land in Yuen Long District and mainly develop Tin Shui Wai.

45. Mr WONG Wai-yin, Zachary opined that we should consider the problem from the perspective of whether existing laws had been violated. He believed illegal soil dumps were frequently seen in the New Territories. He had also inspected a few pieces of landfilled land with various government departments regarding this problem and understood each department had their respective purview, resulting in the shifting of responsibilities among the departments concerned. For example, there was no stipulation on the legal height of fill soil previously and now it was stipulated to be 1.2 metres. Even if it was against the law, the PlanD only issued a Reinstatement Notice to the landowner concerned, but after the issuance, if the landowner concerned planted grass on the concerned land, the matter would be settled without the need to clear the debris. The above example caused doubt as to whether the PlanD was enforcing the law effectively. The purpose of the Reinstatement

25 Notice was to require the people concerned to reinstate the land to the condition it was in before landfilling. For example, if the fishpond was filled up, it would have to be restored to the original appearance of a fishpond, rather than planting grass on the land of the landfilled fishpond, depriving the fishpond of its original drainage function, unable to alleviate the flooding situation during rainy days. He had also made enquiries of the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department whether the soil dumping activity could be regarded as disposal of rubbish, but they replied that soil was not rubbish, so they could not enforce the law. He even tried to make enquiries of the LandsD and they replied that those were earth movement works. He felt that no departments wanted to deal with this problem, leading to the deterioration of the dumping situation in Yuen Long District. He hoped that relevant government departments could jointly deal with the problem instead of shifting it around, disabling the implementation of the law. Meanwhile, he also hoped the departments could work together to develop some guidelines so that the same set of guidelines could be adopted when facing a similar problem in the future.

46. Mr LAM Wing-man, Senior Town Planner/Enforcement 1 of the Planning Department’s consolidated response was set out below:

(1) The Government was very concerned about the illegal site formation works incident near Tin Shui Wai. Relevant departments, including the EPD, the PlanD, the BD, the CEDD and the LandsD had held a cross-departmental meeting to work out a solution. The departments were studying or had adopted some corresponding measures to deal with the problem. In terms of PlanD’s enforcement actions, first, it had to be pointed out that the first gazettal of the draft Ping Shan Development Permission Area Plan was on 18 June 1993. The PlanD based on the information of the aerial photograph provided by the LandsD at that time and recorded that the site, where landfilling and bulldozing activities were currently discovered, was used as open storage of sand. According to the aerial photograph taken even earlier, the site was a fishpond in 1990. It was filled in 1991 to 1992 and used as open storage of sand since 1993. According to the TPO, open storage of sand at the site was regarded as an “existing use” and did not constitute an unauthorised development where planning enforcement actions could be instigated. Mr LEE Yuet-man lodged a complaint in 2007 that there were suspected unauthorised landfilling works at the site which was then investigated by the PlanD and found that the site was used as open storage of sand, regarded as an “existing use” instead of an unauthorised development. However, the PlanD found that there was storage of sand to the east of the site which was regarded as an unauthorised development. The PlanD took immediate enforcement actions and the sand at the extended section was then removed. The PlanD also issued a Reinstatement Notice to the concerned landowners. Since the sand was already removed, the PlanD only required the landowners to grass the site;

(2) Sand storage activities at the site of “existing use” gradually reduced and vegetation covered the site. In 2015, quite a lot of trees grew at the site, but at the end of 2015 to the beginning of 2016, the Department received a complaint and carried out an investigation, discovering that part of the vegetation at the site had been removed. As it was not yet involved with unauthorised development under the TPO, the PlanD did not take any enforcement actions until early March, 2016 when there were reports on the removal of all the vegetation at the site and also bulldozing and landfilling

26 activities. The PlanD then conducted an on-site inspection and found that after the vegetation was removed, the original appearance as open storage of sand was revealed;

(3) The PlanD inspected the site in March repeatedly and observed that there were landfilling activities to the east of the site which was beyond the boundary of the “existing use” area, regarded as an unauthorised development. As such, an Enforcement Notice was issued to the concerned owners on 21 March 2016, requiring them to discontinue the unauthorised landfilling works. During investigation, the PlanD also suspected further landfilling works expanding to the west beyond “existing use”. If the PlanD had collected sufficient evidence, enforcement actions would be taken. As for the site regarded as “existing use”, the PlanD would serve a Notice to Require Provision of Information to the concerned owners in accordance with the TPO to understand the purposes and the proposed development of the works currently in progress at the site. If sufficient information was available to prove the case of unauthorised development, the PlanD would take enforcement actions;

(4) A Member held the view that the PlanD rarely instituted prosecutions against unauthorised landfilling activities. In fact, according to the TPO, where unauthorised landfilling activities were found, the PlanD would first issue an Enforcement Notice to require the persons concerned to discontinue the said unauthorised landfilling works. If the persons concerned continued with the works, the PlanD would institute prosecutions. The number of prosecutions was not high largely because the persons concerned had already discontinued the said unauthorised works according to the notice or dealt with it according to the Reinstatement Notice issued by the Department. That was why they were not prosecuted. The PlanD issued 512 and 311 Enforcement Notices against unauthorised landfilling works in 2014 and 2015 respectively and the numbers of prosecutions were 4 and 20 in respective years;

(5) As regards the unauthorised development cases in Mong Tseng Tsuen mentioned by Mr LUK Chung-hung, the PlanD had, in fact, instigated enforcement actions that the site was used for unauthorised storage purposes. The PlanD issued an Enforcement Notice on 4 February 2016 to require the concerned owners to discontinue the said unauthorised development, with the deadline not yet expiring. The Department sent staff to inspect the site today. The unauthorised storage had largely been cleared;

(6) Mr WONG Wai-yin, Zachary mentioned that agricultural land could be filled with soil of no more than 1.2 metres high. However, it was not applicable to all agricultural land. Only sites zoned “Agriculture” on the Outline Zoning Plan, with provisions under the Notes stating laying of soil not exceeding 1.2 metres in thickness for cultivation, could proceed with the relevant landfilling. Otherwise, an application had to be made to the Town Planning Board;

(7) During the consideration of requiring the concerned landowners to reinstate the land, the Planning Authority would consider the conditions of the concerned land, including whether there would be public safety issues arising from the land (e.g. flooding and landslides), whether the existing use of the land was consistent with planning intention, whether it would continue to deteriorate the surrounding environment, whether it was necessary to enhance the appearance

27 of the city and other factors. The PlanD would also consult relevant departments about any other special requirements; and

(8) He stressed again that the PlanD would definitely take law enforcement actions against unauthorised developments in accordance with the TPO. The enforcement and prosecution figures provided before were just reflecting that the PlanD had been sparing no effort in the enforcement against unauthorised landfilling works.

47. Mr TSUI Heung-ming, Senior Geotechnical Engineer/Mainland West 2 of the Civil Engineering and Development Department’s consolidated response was set out below:

(1) The role of CEDD in both cases was to provide other departments with advice on slope safety to ensure public safety and assist other departments to follow up on the unauthorised acts;

(2) In response to Members’ opinion on the interim measure of concrete spraying, the Department found that the fill materials near in Ping Shan Heung were loose due to the lack of proper compaction, and the vegetation on the soil fill had been removed recently which exposed the soil, increasing the risk of collapse. The situation might worsen particularly in the upcoming rainy season. Long-term upgrading works or debris removal would take some time to complete. Therefore, for safety reasons, interim measures had to be taken to cover the exposed parts. In fact, concrete spraying was a common measure to temporarily stabilise slopes, primarily for preventing rainwater from penetrating into the slopes directly. It was worth mentioning that concrete spraying was not a long-term measure. It was only to temporarily ensure that the slope safety situation would not deteriorate before the rainy season; and

(3) As regards Members’ enquiries just now about the impact to nearby areas if the said sand slope collapsed, the Department’s preliminary assessment was that the open parking lot, roads and an open warehouse nearby would be affected; therefore, relevant parties had to take interim measures to ensure public safety.

48. Mr HUI Ho-yin, Lawrence, Senior Structural Engineer/Slope Safety (MW) of the Buildings Department’s consolidated response was set out below:

(1) The BD served Dangerous Hillside Orders on 8 March 2016 to the owners of the concerned pieces of land, requiring them to commence urgent shotcreting work and undertake long-term measures for dealing with the slope safety problem. The Department already immediately contacted the owners concerned to hold meetings to explain to them the details of the order after it was served. During the meeting, the Department stressed that if the owners did not intend to carry out shotcreting work, they would have to commission professionals to submit an “alternative proposal” for the Department’s approval. The owners did not quite understand the related requirements, so after the meeting, their tenants commissioned professionals (including one authorised person and one registered geotechnical engineer) and notified the Department on 21 March;

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(2) On 24 March, they shotcreted part of the land concerned, but the relevant tenants were not satisfied with the approach. The Department told the professionals that if shotcreting work did not proceed, an “alternative proposal” agreed by the Department had to be employed to deal with the problem. At that time, the Department hoped that they could proceed with shotcreting while they were looking for the “alternative proposal”. They stopped shotcreting and submitted to the Department on 29 March an “alternative proposal” which suggested moving the debris from a higher position to a lower position and flattening the slope slightly to decrease its steepness, but not removing the soil. That proposal did not comply with the requirements of the PlanD and the CEDD and so the BD did not accept it;

(3) The Department met with them again on 29 March to explain other feasible options, for example, erecting a perimeter chain fence in the direction that the soil would flow to in case it collapsed, taking it as a buffer zone for the area in question, but this proposal would inevitably induce some excavation work. They agreed on 1 April to try this proposal and would conduct preparatory work on 2 April to excavate some soil but their reaction had still been very slow; and

(4) The Department’s order would expire soon. If they could not deal with the problem in response to the Department’s suggestions, the Department would use BD’s contractors to carry out the shotcreting work.

49. Mr SZETO Wing-kwok, Senior Environmental Protection Officer(Regional North)2 of the Environmental Protection Department’s consolidated response was set out below:

(1) The Government was very concerned about the incident and had already held a cross-departmental meeting. Various departments had also taken actions in accordance with relevant legislations and their respective purview;

(2) Regarding the piece of land near Fung Ka Wai, Ping Shan Heung outside Kingswood Villas, the EPD found that the site concerned was suspected to be undertaking site formation works, but did not adopt the dust control measures as required by the Air Pollution Control (Construction Dust) Regulation (Cap. 311R). The Department was following up the site on whether offences were involved. He took the opportunity to hope that Members would heed the view that proper storage of construction waste for reuse was, in fact, a way to optimise use of resources. Operation in practice, of course, had to comply with relevant legislations and requirements, including environmental, land use and planning, and construction safety;

(3) In August 2014, the Department revised the legislation to introduce the prior notification procedures to cope with the depositing of construction waste on a private land. The above prior notification procedures required a person to obtain the written permission of all the landowners in a specified form and submit it to the EPD before the intended date of depositing. After receiving the submission, the EPD would inform the relevant departments which would enable the relevant departments to take follow-up actions under their respective purview and applicable legislations to ensure that the depositing would comply with all the relevant legislative requirements; and

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(4) The aforesaid new regulation strengthened law enforcement of the Department. From the figures, in 2014 and 2015, there were 1 and 8 prosecutions of illegally depositing construction waste on a private land respectively. The Department would continue to step up enforcement.

50. Mr CHOW Wing-kan said that we all hoped to solve the problem, not freeze the problem. Shotcreting was required from time to time which did not solve the problem at root. According to the Ping Shan Outline Zoning Plan, the site concerned was zoned “Recreation”. He enquired whether the authorities had received planning applications, suggesting the development of the site for recreation. If so, whether the authorities could set special conditions, for example, ensuring that the slope would be safe and the soil would not collapse. If it could be done this way, the development of the site would be in line with planning intention which would also be a long-term solution.

51. Mr KWONG Chun-yu said he recalled that in 2008, someone hung a large banner, with the words “Dump Debris Here” on it, over the present location of site formation. Obviously someone was making profit from this. Even if the media had revealed the danger at the site today, the people concerned were still reacting slowly. He enquired whether anyone had to be responsible for the incident and penalised. In addition, how the authorities were going to deal with the fee-paying carpark in Lau Fau Shan which was made with the piling of rubbish covered with bitumen and was close to residential places.

52. Mr CHAM Ka-hung Daniel, BBS, MH, JP said the BD had not answered his questions, i.e. why shotcreting was employed instead of hydroseeding to stabilise the so-called “waste hill” where hydroseeding would prevent it from forming into a concrete hill. Currently, a lot of slope upgrading and landfill restoration works employed hydroseeding which was a relatively faster and cheaper way and would not affect the outward appearance. In considering how to deal with the problem in the long run, as an interim remedial measure, hydroseeding would be more acceptable in terms of appearance, so he hoped the relevant parties could consider this proposal.

53. Mr TANG Hing-ip, BBS said the pile of debris had formed for more than a decade, spanning a very large area too. To instantly restore the site, it would be difficult. Meanwhile, it was necessary to seek another place for the soil. It would not work without a long period of time. He, therefore, hoped the authorities could offer a more lenient schedule and let the people concerned remove the debris where circumstances permitted. In addition, it was learnt that a golf driving range was intended to be set up at the site, making use of the steepness there to reduce the manpower for picking up balls. He hoped the relevant departments could study the best long-term solution through the above two regards.

54. Mr WONG Wai-yin, Zachary said the PlanD constantly emphasised that the site was used as open storage for sand in 1993. In their written reply, the most frequently used word was also “sand” and so he asked about the differences between “soil” and “sand”. He added that if the site was for storing sand in 1993, trees should not have been grown there. In addition, he was aware that someone had applied to store soil at a location in Pat Heung but was rejected by the TPB, meaning that the TPB would consider various factors when approving applications regarding the storage of soil. That being the case, he enquired about

30 the suitability of the site to continue to be used for landfilling.

55. Mr LUK Chung-hung said he and other Members had just proposed to cover the site with vegetation. Previously, it was covered with vegetation too which appeared quite good. It was believed that vegetation would be more acceptable to us in terms of landscape and could effectively prevent soil erosion and collapse. He hoped the relevant parties would carry out study.

56. Mr WONG Cheuk-kin took the example of dump trucks on the roads also using canvas to cover their cargo compartments to suggest painting some patterns or encouraging young people in Tin Shui Wai to draw some artistic patterns at the site as a community art activity. These short-term relief measures would be better in appearance than the so-called “concrete grave” after shotcreting. Of course, the long-term approach had to be government departments strengthening law enforcement. Besides, the Department had just explained that some agricultural land could be filled with soil of no more than 1.2 metres high. He enquired whether there were a height limit, a slope steepness limit and other relevant civil engineering requirements on the storage of sand on a private land used as a sand depot.

57. Mr LEE Yuet-man, MH said many Tin Shui Wai residents observed the meeting today. They had two aspirations that were more obvious, namely removing the so-called “waste hill” and objecting to shotcreting. After listening to the departments’ response just now, he felt that they were like stalling the problem. He hoped the PlanD would let them know how and whether the debris could be removed. Residents had clearly expressed their aspirations of objecting to shotcreting but the BD and the CEDD still said they would continue shotcreting. He opined that no problems were found in the Department’s on-site inspection 8 years ago and the so-called “waste hill” had not collapsed over the 8 years. He did not understand why the relevant departments suddenly required shotcreting for stabilisation now. Residents of Kingswood Villas resolutely refused to accept the so-called “concrete grave” as a result of shotcreting.

58. Mr MAK Ip-sing said he had been asking the departments whether there were sufficient places in Hong Kong for dumping debris and the related charges. If no such lawful dump sites were available, the problem could not be addressed at root. Meanwhile, someone saw it profitable now and let others dump the debris on agricultural land for profit. Thus, he hoped the Government would enforce the law effectively, instituting prosecutions in case of violation.

59. Mr LAM Wing-man responded that regarding whether anyone should be held responsible and penalised for the incident as raised by Mr KWONG Chun-yu, he had already mentioned if the project was confirmed to be an unauthorised development under the TPO, enforcement actions would be taken against the persons concerned. The PlanD found earlier that there were landfilling activities to the east of the site. After having sufficient evidence on hand, the Department had issued an Enforcement Notice to the owners concerned, requiring them to discontinue their unauthorised landfilling works. Upon the expiry of the notice, if the landfilling activities at the site had been discontinued, the Department would consider requiring the owners concerned to reinstate the land. Moreover, during PlanD’s investigation, there were suspected landfilling works in progress to the west of the site. If sufficient evidence had been gathered, enforcement actions would be taken against the

31 persons concerned, including the landowners. As for the Lau Fau Shan case, as mentioned in PlanD’s reply to Mr KWONG, the site was located in the vicinity of Lots No. 2102 to No. 2106 in D.D. 129, Lau Fau Shan, and was zoned “Recreation” on the Lau Fau Shan & Tsim Bei Tsui Outline Zoning Approved Plan without restrictions on landfilling works or site formation. Therefore, the landfilling works at that site were not an unauthorised development. However, the Department found that the site was used for storage which was not yet approved by the TPB and was considered an unauthorised development. Therefore, the PlanD issued a warning letter to the people concerned in January 2016, requiring them to discontinue the unauthorised development. The PlanD conducted a site inspection on 1 March and found that the storage purposes had been discontinued. The Department would continue to monitor the site. If cases of contravention of the law were found again, enforcement actions would be taken. As regards Mr WONG Wai-yin, Zachary’s enquiry on the differences between “soil” and “sand”, the Department could only confirm, based on records, that in 1993, the said site was used as open storage of sand.

60. Mr WONG Wai-yin, Zachary held the view that the “sand” that departments mentioned should be pure sand, used in construction and water-repellent, unless the departments understood otherwise.

61. Mr LAM Wing-man said again that PlanD’s records showed that in 1993, the site was used as open storage of sand. As regards whether the departments could remove the debris at the site as raised by Mr LEE Yuet-man, he had already explained that if the site was regarded as an “existing use” under the TPO, it would not constitute an unauthorised development and the PlanD would not be able to take enforcement actions. If unauthorised expansion or other uses were found at the site, the PlanD would instigate investigations. When sufficient evidence had been gathered to confirm the unauthorised development, enforcement actions would be taken.

62. Mr LEE Yuet-man, MH believed that the current “waste hill” was higher than the sand depot at that time. Besides, the sand depot had not been in operation for many years. He queried how the site could be an “existing use” under the TPO.

63. Mr LAM Wing-man responded that the PlanD was collecting information to compare the situations of the site in 1993 and the present and hoped Mr LEE could provide for reference, after the meeting, the related photos with the time and location that they were taken. Mr LAM Wing-man said whether enforcement actions could be taken involved evidence collection. As it was about committing an offence under the TPO, investigations and evidence collection had to be conducted stringently. He hoped to study the issue with Mr LEE in this regard after the meeting.

64. Mr LEE Yuet-man, MH said he had already provided the authorities with the photos many times but he definitely felt glad to provide them again.

65. In response to Members’ proposal to hydroseed instead of shotcrete, Mr HUI Ho-yin, Lawrence said shotcreting was a short-term solution. Even if the people concerned had undertaken shotcreting works, long-term remedial measures still had to be taken according to the authorities’ orders so as to ensure the safety of the site. Shotcreting had to be completed

32 before the rainy season. If hydroseeding was undertaken, he believed that grass might not be able to grow in time before the rainy season and so it could not work as a short-term remedial measure. Besides, a Member enquired about why the authorities did not take law enforcement actions in as early as 2008. According to records, there were no parking and camping facilities surrounding that site in that year.

66. Mr KWONG Chun-yu worried that the authorities would take shotcreting as the long-term remedial measure and not make an effort to deal with the Lau Fau Shan case.

67. Mr HUI Ho-yin, Lawrence said over the past three weeks, various departments were working diligently to mediate with the owners concerned and seek “alternative proposals”. Whether the “alternative proposals” would be adopted would depend on the amount of effort that the owners and tenants concerned could make to deal with the problem. The departments would continue to require the owners and tenants concerned to deal with the problem in accordance with the prevailing law.

68. In response to Mr MAK Ip-sing’s enquiry, Mr SZETO Wing-kwok said the Government had provided fill banks in Tuen Mun and Tseung Kwan O at a charge of $27 per tonne currently. Some waste that could not be recycled, such as construction waste intermingled with lots of household refuse, could be sent to landfills for disposal at a charge of $125 per tonne currently. Contractors, in general, should make use of the above channels appropriately if construction waste had to be handled. Meanwhile, the authorities would, as far as possible, encourage proper reuse of construction waste.

69. In her reply to Mr CHOW Wing-kan, Miss NG Yong, Stella, Senior Town Planner/Tuen Mun2 of the Planning Department said that according to the Department’s record, as of now, the TPB had not received any planning applications in relation to the development of the site for recreational purposes.

70. In his conclusion, the Chairman said that many Members were very concerned about the incident. When the departments were dealing with the incident, the primary task would be to ensure the safety of the premises without the collapse of the slope which would affect residents in the neighbourhood, in particular, residents of Kingswood Villas. Secondly, if the departments found that the law had been breached, law enforcement actions had to be taken stringently. Of course, quite a number of Members and department representatives had mentioned that the so-called “waste hill” which we talked about now seemed to fit the “existing use” under the TPO to a certain extent. Therefore, he hoped the departments would not enforce the law reluctantly due to public pressure and had to act in accordance with the prevailing law to deal with the problem fairly. Finally, he hoped the authorities would understand the incident was still not resolved and they had to continue to closely follow up on it. He thanked the department representatives again for their time to attend the meeting.

Item 3: Any Other Business: 71. There being no other business, the Chairman announced the meeting was adjourned and thanked Members and department representatives for attending the meeting.

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Yuen Long District Council Secretariat June 2016

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