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Why is it a popular career move for attorneys to become stand-up comedians? Other professions don't have similar career chang~s-there isn't a preponderance of dentists who become jazz trumpeters, for example. Subway motormen don't often become tap dancers.

ut Al Lubel left trial law for the stage, win- just finished touring the country performing with his stand- ning "Star Search" and appearing on "The up comedy troupe Axis of Evil, a group of professional come- Tonight Show" with both Johnny Carson dians with Middle-Eastern ancestry, The group was recently and Jay Leno, and Dan Naturman went featured on their own CComedy Central. Is there something particular about stand-up comedy that Jeff Kreisler,another lawyer turned stand-up comedian and attracts people from the practice of law, or is it simply that comedy writer, recently won the Bill Hicks Spirit Award for law and comedy have similar skill sets? Is structuring a joke Thought-Provoking Comedy at the New York Underground a bit like structuring a legal argument? You put down a Comedy Festival. Karen Bergreen also left corporate law for bunch of facts directing people to a conclusion, and then you the stage. In addition to making regular appearances at top make a wrong turn to a faulty conclusion, or a punch line, in New York City comedy clubs, Bergreen teaches comedy, to order to prove your point. Courtroom theatrics may look children. Maybe some of these children will skip law school good on TV, but it's often just emphasizing the law, or the and go straight into comedy, as did comedian Jill Twiss, who facts of the case, that wins. There's very little pounding the decided a few days before law school that she would be better table. And similarly in stand-up comedy-it's stating the evi- suited to making people laugh. And she does, appearing fre- dence, telling the story, making the observation, that leads to quently at comedy clubs in New York City, upstate New York the funny conclusion. and in her former home state of South Dakota. Perhaps, too, it's the Professor Charles Kingsfield factor Dean Obeidallah went from law to stand-up comedy and from "The Paper Chase"-students choose law school because

32 NEWJERSEYLAWYER IDecember 2007 they think they're smarter than the pro- can become a comedian, all can reap seen. For the first time, I think the idea fessors and will easily be able to defend the benefit of the career change of of creating something from nothing and themselves during the abuse we've all some of their ex-colleagues. seeing people react cwas exciting and been led to expect when we show up on Following are interviews I conducted appealing to me. As I was writing, I day one. Similarly, comedians are often with attorney-comedians Paul Mecurio, started thinking about performing. So, just one step ahead of the audience-we Karen Bergreen and Don Petersen: I'd sneak out of work at night to dive know where the joke is going, so it's no bars in New York City on open-mike surprise to us, just to the audience, until PaulMecurio nights, because that's where you can get we lead them th~re. Every time the audi- A graduate of Georgetown University work at the beginning. I'd sneak out, ence laughs it's like getting an opposing Law School, Paul worked as a corporate then go back to work on M&A transac- witness to recant on cross. An applause attorney for Willkie Farr & Gallagher in tions. It got nerve-wracking because break is like having the judge threaten New York, and as an investment banker deals would blow up and I'd get back, to hold opposing counsel in contempt. for CS First Boston. As a comedian he's smelling of beer and cigarette smoke Appearing on "The Tonight Show with made dozens of national television and the senior partner would be yelling. Jay Leno" or "Late Show with David Let- I'd claim I was in a conference room on terman?" That's like making partner. Every time the audience a conference call, but I smelled like a Plus, we get paid for it. It's a great bar. One night I was at a downtown bar way to make a living, although it does laughs it's like getting an in New York City called Downtown take a number of years before a comedi- opposing witness to Beirut 2-a real dive, with drug pushers, an's income reaches even a first-year recant on cross. An pimps-and a drunk patron got s]ashed. associate's starting salary. Of course first- I opened with "Nice to be here at Down- year associates have to wear business applause break is like town Beirut 2, I always wanted to follow suits, and may have to put up with abu- having the judge threaten a slashing," and the guy who got cut sive senior partners, whereas comedi- threw bloody napkins at me. At the time, ans, even if we suffer from the to hold opposing counsel I would take off my jacket and tie on the occasional heckler (and it's less com- in contempt. Appearing on way t~ the club then get re-dressed in a mon, and less tolerated than you think), cab going back to the office. My boss we get to retaliate. Whether it's facing a "TheTonight Show with ~aw my bloody shirt and wanted to cold, unfriendly audience or just a Jay Leno" or "Late Show know what happened-remember he didn't know I'd left the office. I told him plain, old-fashioned, drunk heckler, with David Letterman?" possessing the microphone as well as I was working oner VERYhostile merger years of experience gives us the upper That's like making partner. deal. . hand. Unlike lawyers, comics almost Shaun: Do you -talk about law on always win. And there are no ethical appearances and has won an Emmy and stage? rules against comedians dating clients. a Peabody for his writing on "The Daily Paul:Yeah, I do, I talk about what it For more than 20 years, Jay Leno has Show" with Jon Stewart. was like. I didn't hate the law, I had a been happily married to a woman he Shaun: When did you start perform- great experience at my firm, worked on met in a comedy club. ing? fun deals, was given a lot of responsibil- One thing that many attorney- Paul: 1996. I was doing banking but ity at a young age, I just got drawn to comedians have in common is that had a real pull to try stand-up full-time, comedy. It was a hard decision. I had their material might be a bit more so I was arranging to do comedy full- security, but then all of a sudden I'm intellectual than typical comedian fod- time, I sold my New York City apart- gonna give all this up. This was not a der. Another thing many-such as ment and started to live the life of a negative reaction to anything I did as a Bergreen, Kreisler and Naturman- struggling comic. lawyer at all. I grew up middle-class, so have in common, is that they attended Shaun:What made you decide to try being a lawyer was a great thing for me. Ivy League schools and have been fea- comedy? Shaun: Did you talk about law when tured in the Ivy League Comedy Show- Paul: I sold some jokes to Jay Leno, you started out and were still working as caseSM, a show I put together and got taken by seeing him perform an attorney? specifically to promote smart, clean my jokes on "The Tonight Show"-it Paul:No, I was living a secret life, and comedy. So while not every attorney was the most powerful thing I'd ever I didn't want to alienate the other

NEW JERSEYLAWYER IDecember 2007 33 comics, didn't want struggling artists to logical thing to do. Parents are parents, dy Central's "Tough Crowd" with Colin think I was just some rich dude, and I and they worry about you. Quinn. She's a frequent performer at didn't want the people at the law firm to Shaun:And what do they say now? New York City's top comedy clubs, and think I wasn't serious. My girlfriend, now Paul:Now, with the success and "The a much-sought-after emcee, as well as a my wife, didn't know either. I didn't Daily Show" and the Emmy, when my regular feature, in the Ivy League Com- want to tell anybody, but the people on mother saw the Emmy Award she was edy,Showcase. Wall Street, the lawyers, were the coolest really impressed and people would Shaun: When did you start perform- about my decision. They said they always come into her furniture store talking ing stand-up comedy? wanted to write the great American about "The Daily Show"...she would tell Karen: I was clerking for a federal novel, etc. It was incredible support them I worked on it and they were judge when I really started, but the which helped fuel me and keep me posi- impressed and so she'd be impressed. So lifestyle terrified me. Then, after being a tive when things weren't necessarily that through other people she saw that I've lawyer for four years, I wasn't crazy positive when you're starting out. It's a achieved that level of success. about that lifestyle either. struggle. I remember the managing part- Shaun: Telling jokes for money Shaun: Do you remember your first ner said, "Good for you, I'm really proud sounds like a glamorous job. What's the show? of you, now you have a career, not just a down side? Karen:I had done it a couple of times job." They were very supportive and Paul:Unpredictability, the subjective right after college. It's a weird feeling, like understanding, and admired the guts to nature of it. being in a pageant or at your wedding. walk away and go for it. Shaun: How has your life changed Your friends are all there watching you. Shaun: Did anything about law or since you went from attorney to work- Shaun:Do you ever talk about law on law school prepare you for a career in ing comic? stage? comedy? Paul: Creatively it's very fulfilling, Karen:Never, it's a turn-off (for the Paul:Yes,I think that in the craft of but it's less predictable and less secure. audience). I'll talk about it only if it's a writing jokes you have to be creative In that way it's more stressful, but more prrvate event for lawyers or people who and look at all different angles of an rewarding to me to be creating stuff deal with lawyers-like a corporate issue to get the best joke, so in that way that's my own, that has my stamp on it. ~how for finance or consulting profes- it really' prepared me. And also in a It's changed mainly for the better. sionals. But at a comedy club, for people business sense-having a business plan There's a price you pay, but it's defin~te- out on the town, no. The impression of and an organizational sense. Having a ly worth it. lawyers is different from what it really is, great legal education and law experi- Shaun: Do you have any advice for so real jokes won't work-it's too inside. ence was helpful. Having a law degree is lawyers who want to become comics? I'll do jokes about a job interview, office a good education to get because it trains Paul:Beprepared. If you want to do it politics, that kind of thing. But that you to work in a certain way. You're as a hobby, there's not much advice to could be any office, or working in a taught to think differently and no other give. If you want to do it as a profession, restaurant, or a school. graduate degrees do that. They make try to discover what your point of view is, Shaun: Did anything about law or you more proficient in an area but they make sure it's as unique aspossible, try to law school prepare you for a career in don't alter who you are. If you take that hone it, then be ready, when you make comedy? into this business it's a plus, because a the leap, to give up the security to pursue Karen:Writing a joke is like writing a lot of people don't have the ability to something you're passionate about. legal argument-framing a set of facts to think that way. achieve a certain end. Shaun: What did your family say Karen Bergreen Shaun: What kind of law did you when you quit Wall Street to pursue Karen is a Harvard graduate and for- practice? comedy full time? mer corporate litigator who describes Karen:I started out working at a big Paul: They couldn't understand it. herself as a dictatorial mother of two, firm doing commercial litigation, then I They weren't on Wall Street. They saw but given her calm exterior and peace- clerked for a judge, then I did some me make it, achieve what I wanted to ful demeanor on stage it's hard to criminal defense work while making the achieve, why would you give that up? It believe she's a dictator at home. She has transition to working comic. was certainly legitimate what they were performed stand up on Comedy Cen- Shaun:Is litigation at all like comedy? saying, and I could understand what tral's "Premium Blend," on "New Joke Karen:In the sense that you have to they were saying, because it wasn't a City" with Robert Klein and on Come- figure out how to win your audience-

34 NEWJERSEYLAWYER IDecember 2007 the mOQdis different but the goal is the comedian performing primarily in the Shaun: Has teaching helped your same, you want people to pay attention Midwest. comedy? to what you're saying. Shaun:How did your stand-up career Don: Comedy helps my teaching- Shaun: You talk about your family a get started? stage presence is helpful when I'm in lot on stage. Do you find that your kids Don: I went through Second City front of students. And I've learned to have your sense of humor? Conservatory, which was probably the look at the audience to learn how Karen:The three-year-old says things hardest thing I ever had to do-it's two they respond, and I change my act that he knows I don't want to hear years worth of classes, strictly improv on-the-go, depending upon their because he t~inks it's funny, like comedy until the very end, then we put response. Similarly, I have learned to "Should I make a lot of noise?" Both on a sketch comedy show of sketches read students to see if they under- kids are funny, even the one-year-old that we wrote. I was at least 10 years stand their secured transactions. makes me laugh, likes to play tricks, older than anyone else. Teaching helps me write some materi- stuff that makes a one-year-old laugh. Law school was easy compared to al, though, because I discover what He calls me daddy instead of mommy Second City, no question about it. We 2S-year-olds are thinking. It helps me because he thinks it's funny. used to practice all the time, there with young audiences. Really, though, Shaun: How has your life changed were fights, we started with 100 stu- comedy has helped me be a better since you went from attorney to work- dents and ended with six-some quit lawyer-talking to a jury, talking to ing comic? and some were asked not to continue. clients. My partner didn't want clients Karen:People say mean things about I think they kept me on because I was to know that I was performing lawyers, but I like maintaining my con- a good mediator and kept people from because he feared they would think it tacts with my lawyer friends-that going at each other. After graduation meant I wasn't serious about the law. world is more stable, it provides more we started a troupe and performed, but But they loved it. They all wanted to intellectual stimulation, a nice balance it was too hard to co-ordinate our come see me. And now it's proudly on to have in addition to having friends in schedules since I was working as an my reSj.lme. Performing is a release the entertainment world. attorney. I decided to try stand-up from a high-pressure law job. Comedy Shaun: Do you have any advice for comedy because I could do it by is high-pressure too, but you get lawyers who want to become comics? myself. I went to an open-mike night, instaht gratification-positive feed- Karen:For anyone-just do it. and started from there. back-when people laugh. In law Shaun: Did people tell you that you Shaun:What's your act like? 'nobody thanks you for a good job, were funny when you were younger? Don: My goal is to work every show you only hear about it when you do a Karen:Absolutely. clean. I used to do political humor, but I bad job. I know ~ust walking on stage Shaun:Is being on stage the same as seemed to alienate too much of the that they'll like me, and then when being funny with your friends? audience. I'm off stage they'll want to know me. Karen: No, nothing beats being Shaun: Do you talk about law on Whereas when you walk into a room funny with your friends. Now that I per- stage? and tell people you're a lawyer, well, form professionally, it's more organic Don: Yes, a little bit, but I don't do people just don't like lawyers. making friends laugh. lawyer jokes, per se. First, I discuss Shaun:What do you think about per- Shaun: Do you find they expect you what it's like to be a member of a pro- forming for lawyers? to be funny all the time? fession that everybody hates. Second, Don: I've performed for law stu- Karen:No, not with my friends. I do some fish-out-of-water jokes. I dents-they're a good audience, more Shaun:What about others? talk about going from a welfare child- so than lawyers. I prefer to perform for Karen: When I meet new people hood in Detroit to Harvard Law students-they study so hard that they're shocked when I say I'm a come- School. I also talk about going to my they're looking for a break. If you can dian because they don't find me funny. law school reunion. I had my own lit- make them laugh they're very happy. tc Then they come to a show, and its tle firm, but all my classmates were "Wow, yeah, I see it now." working for the top firms in the coun- Shaun Eli Breidbart, a comedian, is try. And they looked up to me because the producer of the Ivy League Comedy Don Petersen they wanted to be doing what I was Showcase'M, which promotes clean, clever Petersen is a professor at Michigan's doing! Of course, now I'm a professor comedy. His personal comedy material is Cooley Law School and a working and a comic. available at www.BrainChampagne.com.

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