MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

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MAUI ISLAND GENERAL PLAN ADVISORY COMMITTEE FEBRUARY 28, 2009

REGULAR MEETING

Held at the Kaunoa Senior Citizens Center Cafeteria, 401 Alakapa Place, Paia, Maui, Hawaii, commencing at 10:10 a.m., on February 28, 2009.

Reported by: Tonya McDade Hawaii Certified Shorthand Reporter #447 Registered Professional Reporter Certified Realtime Reporter Certified Broadcast Captioner

IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 2 Page 4 1 ATTENDANCE 1 MAUI ISLAND GENERAL PLAN ADVISORY COMMITTEE 2 COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: 2 FEBRUARY 28, 2009 3 Tom Cannon, Chair 3 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 4 Dick Mayer, Vice-Chair 4 *** 5 Joe Bertram, III, Member 5 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. If everyone is ready, I 6 John Blumer-Buell, Member 6 call the meeting to order. And Carl has volunteered to 7 Lesley Bruce, Member 7 give the olelo for us today. I call the meeting to 8 Lucienne deNaie, Member 8 order. And Carl has volunteered to give our olelo 9 Kehau Filimoeatu, Member 9 today. 10 Stanley Franco, Member 10 And thank you for that, Carl. You're on. 11 Lisa Hamilton, Member 11 MEMBER LINDQUIST: I'm not a Hawaiian speaker, 12 Carl Lindquist, Member 12 so, remember, it's the thought that counts. (Hawaiian.) 13 Doug MacCluer, Member 13 We will finally finish this work. It is something to 14 Hans Michel, Member 14 lead to peace or agreement. 15 Susan Moikeha, Member 15 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Carl. 16 Wallette Pellegrino, Member 16 Next up is public testimony. And we have Mike 17 Hinano Rodrigues, Member 17 Atherton, followed by Robin Newbold. 18 Warren Shibuya, Member 18 Could someone give Mike an indication of where 19 Jeanne Skog, Member 19 he might -- Mike, you'll have three minutes. At two 20 Warren Suzuki, Member 20 minutes, 45 seconds, the timekeeper will give you a 21 Frank Sylva, Member 21 little warning, and you'll have 15 seconds to wrap it 22 Stacie Thorlakson, Member 22 up. If you go past that, then you'll have -- I'll just 23 Trevor Tokishi, Member 23 ask you to finish your sentence and you will be done. 24 Chubby Vicens, Member 24 MR. ATHERTON: Thank you. 25 Warren Watanabe, Member 25 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you. Page 3 Page 5 1 STAFF PRESENT: 1 MR. ATHERTON: Good afternoon -- good morning, 2 Jeffrey Hunt, Planning Director 2 everybody. I want to, first of all, apologize for being 3 John Summers, Long Range Division Administrator 3 late in this proposal, but a lot of things changed for 4 David Michaelson, Planner 4 us in the last year. And I also want to thank you very 5 Mel Meleka, Planner 5 much for allowing me a few moments this morning to 6 Julia Staley, Planner 6 introduce myself and mention a few things about the plan 7 Mark King, GIS Analyst, Long Range Division 7 I have for Waikapu community, Waikapu Country Town. 8 Daniel McNulty Huffman, GIS Supervisor, Long Range 8 I handed out -- with the help of Mr. Hart and 9 Division 9 his associates, I handed out a brochure at the last 10 10 meeting or a meeting earlier last week. I hope you all 11 11 have a copy. If you don't, there's one in the back. 12 12 Also, Mr. Hart produced a letter addressed it to 13 13 Mr. Cannon. And I have it here this morning. I would 14 14 like to review a few things that's in the letter and go 15 15 over it with you. 16 16 Again, my name is Mike Atherton. We purchased 17 17 some property from Wailuku Agribusiness in Waikapu. We 18 18 had a couple ideas, we had one proposal. The proposals 19 19 have changed. And I have a large agricultural company 20 20 that I do and I farm quite a bit. And my farming 21 21 proposals have changed, also. The farming is still 22 22 actively going forward, but I've just changed locations 23 23 based on a lot of information I've learned in the last 24 24 couple years. 25 25 I would like to bring to your attention first 2 (Pages 2 to 5) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 6 Page 8 1 the amount of affordable housing. I've learned in Maui 1 but I suggest you take a slight -- take that just a step 2 that it's very important to have workforce housing and 2 further. I believe that our island can sustain a larger 3 affordable housing. And I felt that Waikapu was a good 3 population, but not now. Currently, our infrastructure 4 location, centrally located to the urban work areas of 4 can't handle it. Our roads, wastewater treatment 5 Kahului, Wailuku, South Maui and West Maui. There's -- 5 facilities, injection wells, water supply, ability to 6 at least 70 percent of Waikapu Country Town will be 6 deal with disaster simply can't handle it. We don't 7 affordable to Maui residents making between 90 and 160 7 grow enough of our own food. We rely too much on oil. 8 percent of the County's median income as determined by 8 Our electricity goes out when the wind blows. There is 9 the U.S. Department of Housing. 9 no adequate escape route from West and South Maui. When 10 Also, I wanted to bring to your attention that 10 you consider expanding urban growth at this time, please 11 there are complete neighborhoods. Residents will be 11 keep in mind that we're going to be in a real pickle 12 able to live, work, shop, play and attend school, all 12 when a disaster hits, even with our current population 13 within a traditional neighborhood setting, without 13 size. Maui has only one hospital. Often, our store 14 having to rely on long vehicle commutes. Again, that's 14 shelves are bare. So until we're able to address these 15 to emphasize the location for Waikapu. 15 issues, we need to be judicious about expanding our 16 Waikapu is an existing community, has been 16 Urban Growth Boundaries. 17 there for quite a few years. This proposal brings an 17 I know you get a lot of pressure from 18 identity in the form of a commercial core primarily 18 developers who just want their particular project to be 19 based where the current Maui Tropical Plantation is. My 19 permitted. But please apply a couple of criteria until 20 vision would be to turn the store into a post office and 20 we have infrastructure to handle a larger population. 21 more of a retail type operation. And the restaurant 21 I recommend that, number one, you allow growth 22 would eventually become the new Waikapu Community 22 in areas that are convenient and affordable for local 23 Center, and work with the Waikapu community in order to 23 people to live and work. 24 be able to have that location for functions and meetings 24 Development in Makena and Olowalu will not be 25 and weddings. 25 convenient, nor affordable, nor safe during a disaster Page 7 Page 9 1 And the surrounding areas, if you notice on 1 for our local people. So I recommend that they not be 2 the map, has a greenbelt that would insist -- would 2 urbanized at this time. 3 include all existing landscaping in the central core of 3 And number two, please protect our cultural, 4 the MTP. So the MTP would always remain. It would just 4 natural and marine resources as your goals and 5 change in flavor and its use. And it would become a 5 objectives encourage. 6 park in the future. 6 I applaud you for protecting Makena. I 7 Also, I would like to bring -- 7 encourage you to protect the wetland area in 8 CHAIR CANNON: Could you finish up with one 8 Spreckelsville and the open spaces -- the open space 9 last sentence? 9 across from Baldwin Beach. Wetlands are a critical part 10 MR. ATHERTON: Okay. I would like to bring to 10 of our marine ecosystem. They protect the reef from 11 your attention the outdoor recreation with over eight 11 land-based pollution. In the area between town and 12 miles of green trails, the sustainability, the protected 12 Kailua Gulch carries runoff from way above Makawao. By 13 agriculture. There was 1,100 acres of agriculture 13 leaving that as open space, you'll protect the off-shore 14 there. It's a better location for ag. It's a permanent 14 reef. 15 ag buffer and it will always be agriculture. And we're 15 You've already entitled areas in Kihei, West 16 committed to agriculture. And -- 16 Maui and Central Maui. And I really believe that that's 17 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Mike. 17 enough for now. Our population can grow, but not 18 MR. ATHERTON: Thank you. 18 without the infrastructure improvements. 19 CHAIR CANNON: Next up is Robin Newbold. 19 Thank you. 20 MS. NEWBOLD: Thank you for letting me testify 20 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Robin. 21 again today and for the time you've each given to our 21 Next up is Randy Ragan, followed by Dave 22 community. 22 DeLeon. 23 Others have testified that GPAC recognize that 23 MR. RAGAN: Hi. I'm Randy Ragan. And I'm 24 Maui cannot sustain unlimited population growth and have 24 testifying to the Olowalu Mauka residents. 25 recommended that your goals include a limit. I agree, 25 All I really want to do is just kind of put a 3 (Pages 6 to 9) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 10 Page 12 1 cap on what we testified about last Thursday night and 1 We propose keeping the oceanfront as it is on 2 so there is no misunderstanding, just clears up our 2 the plan, which is open area in the front of the town 3 position. So I'm just gonna read what we all came up 3 and oceanfront lots on the Lahaina side. The 4 with in a meeting last night. Thank you. 4 residential density should be drastically reduced to the 5 The residents of Olowalu Mauka would like to 5 size that the existing local residents feel is 6 take this opportunity to clarify our position regarding 6 appropriate to meet their needs, to keep the old 7 inclusion of Olowalu Town in the General Plan. We are 7 Hawaiian village charm. The remaining ag lots should 8 not in favor of Olowalu Town in the format that it has 8 stay as they are and be farmed for agriculture. 9 been presented to the community. We are, however, in 9 I'm almost done. Just bear with me, please. 10 favor of Olowalu Village. 10 Sites should be designated to rebuild the 11 So something needs to be passed, and we're 100 11 church, build a museum and put in schools, as well as a 12 percent behind that. 12 site for a small town center that faces the ocean. 13 We believe that a small historic Hawaiian 13 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. That is your -- you had 14 village and agriculture community designed by and for 14 your time limit and you had your last sentence. 15 the local residents would best serve the needs of 15 MR. RAGAN: Okay. 16 Olowalu community and Maui County. The existing plan is 16 CHAIR CANNON: I think we got the gist of it. 17 far too large in scale and population base and far too 17 MR. RAGAN: Okay. 18 dangerous for the health, safety and welfare of the 18 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you very much, Randy. 19 residents of Olowalu, the citizens of Maui and for the 19 MR. RAGAN: And I will be handing out this if 20 environment in general. This has already been proven in 20 anybody wants to finish taking a look at it. But the 21 Olowalu Mauka where many conditions of the Subdivision 21 rest of the proposal is how we're gonna pay for it. 22 Approval have not been met over six years later. As a 22 Okay. Thank you very much. 23 result, much of the infrastructure is still not in 23 CHAIR CANNON: Next up is Dave DeLeon. 24 place, and it appears the owners will have to litigate 24 MR. DELEON: Good morning and aloha. There's 25 with the developers, planners and the Planning 25 a written text to go along with this that is very brief. Page 11 Page 13 1 Department to get what we were promised. 1 And I'll keep my comments very brief as well. And that 2 For example, the highway construction plan 2 is because we're running out of time, it's really not 3 negotiated and promised by Dave Ward and Peter Martin, 3 enough time to deal with the rural lot question that I 4 back in 2003, will likely not even begin construction 4 brought up to you earlier, especially when you want to 5 until at least 2012 because they neglected to do the 5 consider lot by lot. It's very complex if you try to 6 required environmental assessment that takes a couple 6 approach it that way. 7 years to complete. That's in your Exhibits 9, 10 and 16 7 So I'd like to suggest that the following 8 of the petition that was submitted last Thursday night. 8 language be put in the plan, in the appropriate 9 We strongly believe there is a win-win 9 location. And that is: "The question of which 10 scenario that addresses every concern expressed at the 10 properties are truly farms and which are really rural is 11 Thursday meeting. We believe the GPAC Committee has it 11 a complex issue that requires more specific review of 12 within their powers to set the planning formula that 12 particular land uses than the General Plan Advisory 13 will result in giving the Olowalu community and the Maui 13 Committee is tasked to perform. Therefore, it is the 14 community what they have been asking for as well as 14 finding of the General Plan Advisory Committee that this 15 meeting the concerns of the County planners. 15 is an important land use question that should be 16 In addition, the developers will have a 16 actively reviewed in the context of the Community Plans. 17 marketable plan that could be sold in these difficult 17 Of particular concern are the many two-acre properties 18 financial times to local developers like Jesse 18 that are currently zoned as agricultural which are, in 19 Spencer -- who did a great job with Waikapu and really 19 fact, rural in character. Proper classification of 20 cared about the local people and left about $100 million 20 these properties should be" considered -- "should be 21 on the table -- and the Olowalu Mauka transplants, as 21 actively considered." 22 they so politely refer to us as. We're really Maui 22 Thank you for your attention in this matter. 23 developers, we're Maui contractors, we're Maui builders 23 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Dave. 24 and we're Maui restaurant owners. And we have been 24 Is there anyone else who would like to 25 here, many of us, well over 30 years. 25 testify? 4 (Pages 10 to 13) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 14 Page 16 1 Please come forward. And start with your 1 tell you that the plan is an award-winning plan. It's, 2 name. 2 actually, right now, on exhibit in the Smithsonian 3 MR. BOSSERT: Good morning, everyone. I'm 3 representing a very sustainable community. It's gonna 4 Karl Bossert representing Maui Land and Pineapple. 4 recycle water, it's gonna generate its own power. It's 5 Let me just say congratulations today on your 5 not gonna affect nearshore water quality. It will -- 6 last day, and for all of the work over the last several 6 Dave, just open the other file, then. That 7 years. 7 would probably be the easier thing. Sorry about that. 8 Real briefly, I want to, unfortunately, throw 8 And I'm done? 9 a few more numbers at you, just in case you haven't had 9 So, anyhow -- I'll have my last sentence -- 10 enough numbers for the last few months. 10 please consider more flexibility in your plan just in 11 One of the things I wanted to touch on was the 11 case some of these assumptions don't quite work out. 12 population forecast, the DBEDT forecast. And you've 12 Thank you. 13 seen a static number, but, actually, the DBEDT forecast 13 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you. 14 comes in a range. There's a lower range and an upper 14 Next up is DeGray Vanderbilt, followed by 15 range, and their actual forecast. So let me just give 15 Gladys Baisa. 16 you an idea of what the range looks like. 16 MR. VANDERBILT: Aloha, everybody. My name is 17 From the forecast, the lower range is only 2.5 17 DeGray Vanderbilt, resident of Molokai. You're all 18 percent lower, and the upper range is 21.7 percent 18 invited to our GPAC meetings. But I'll keep it real 19 lower. That gives you some idea of how confident DBEDT 19 short. 20 is on where these numbers can go. They don't think it's 20 You guys have put in a lot of work. And we're 21 gonna be down much, but they think it could go up quite 21 up next for our Island Plan which will also be our 22 a bit. 22 Community Plan. And I would hope that you would ask the 23 Just in context, if the population -- if the 23 Planning Department to put as much of your stuff that 24 forecast is off by five percent, your plan is short by 24 comes out of today's meeting on the web as soon as 25 4,000 -- over 4,000 units. 25 possible just so we can get a feel. We've been Page 15 Page 17 1 Another thing to consider is this -- the plan 1 following this pretty closely, but it will be a lot of 2 that you've developed here is based on an assumption 2 help to us to get off on a running start. 3 that all of the zoned lots will be built, all of the 3 And the other thing, just sitting there, I 4 entitled lands will be built. Right now, that 4 hear about all this population and the need for housing. 5 represents about a third of all of the -- of the units 5 Now, I'm a big proponent of affordable housing. And I 6 that can be built today. Your plan calls for zero of 6 would hope as the bill's being reviewed again now, that 7 those to be left in 20 years. If that assumption is not 7 affordable housing, when it's put out there, hopefully, 8 correct, and if it's only five percent of the units 8 it will be on decent sized lots, and that it will be in 9 instead of 33 percent of the units unbuilt in 20 years, 9 perpetuity. Because if you start selling off all the 10 you're short by another 4,000 units. 10 affordable housing, in 20 years or 25 years, you're just 11 And then, remember, half of you agreed with 11 always gonna have a need for that. And things are gonna 12 the Planning Department, 2.7 was the magic number for 12 get more expensive. So, hopefully, once we create 13 people per household versus 2.8. If half of you and the 13 affordable housing, it will be in perpetuity. 14 Planning Department is right, you're short by another 14 And I also want to say that I'm still a little 15 2,000 units. 15 excited about Molokai winning the state basketball 16 And, in total, that's 10,000 units just there. 16 tournament. So, anyway -- 17 So that brings me to Upcountry and a request 17 (Applause.) 18 to put more flexibility into the plan and consider the 18 MR. VANDERBILT: Thank you. Thank you for 19 Hali'imaile proposal that we have to expand the Country 19 your time. 20 Town Center that you have drawn there, and with a new 20 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, DeGray. 21 town that is separated from Makawao. 21 Next up is Gladys Baisa, followed by Jocelyn 22 Dave, can you just click on that and we'll 22 Perreira. 23 kind of drill down to the master plan? It didn't work. 23 COUNCILMEMBER BAISA: I promise I will be very 24 MR. MICHAELSON: Hang on. 24 brief. And thank you for the opportunity to say a few 25 MR. BOSSERT: While my time is ticking, I will 25 words. 5 (Pages 14 to 17) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 18 Page 20 1 I definitely wanted to be here to celebrate 1 testimony about Rural Residential designation and state 2 with you today the end of this long journey. I know a 2 that we think more details need to be developed on this. 3 lot of what has gone on. I'm sorry I missed some of it, 3 Specifically, what's a consistent definition so we can 4 but, you know, I have kind of a crazy life. But I did 4 understand what needs to go into that, especially as 5 save today because I wanted to be here. 5 comprised to two-acre. 6 I wanted to thank every single member of the 6 We also would like to see more work done on 7 GPAC for all the stick-to-it'iveness that you have. 7 the tax rate, the water rate, implications for that. 8 When I was a child, my mother used to tell me, 8 And our community needs the time to study the issue so 9 "Initiative is good, Gladys, but fininitiative is what 9 that we can fully understand the implications. So, 10 you need." And you made it. So I want to thank all of 10 therefore, we see that there needs to be some 11 you for all your sacrifices, all the mana'o that you've 11 flexibility, especially in the Community Plan, when it 12 shared with us. It's been a tough journey, but you're 12 comes to that, so we can address it. 13 here at the end of it. And I'm real proud of you. 13 And I think there needs to be a little more 14 I'm proud of the staff and the Planning 14 work done at the State level since some of these 15 Department, all the folks that have helped. All the 15 designations will need some State laws put on that. And 16 community members that have come out to share their time 16 that will give the time for the State to really address 17 and their feelings with us. That's what makes Maui 17 that and then give the time to the communities which are 18 Maui. 18 most affected by this time to understand it. I'm not 19 So on behalf of myself, and I'm sure my 19 saying it's a bad thing. I think it's actually a good 20 colleagues at the Maui County Council, mahalo nui and 20 thing for our communities. We just want to develop it 21 God bless all of you. And let's hope that this plan 21 out a little more. 22 will be good for Maui County when you're done. Thank 22 Thank you. 23 you. 23 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Gina. 24 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Gladys. 24 Is there anyone else who would like to 25 Next up is Jocelyn Perreira. 25 testify? Please start with your name. Page 19 Page 21 1 MS. PERRIERA: Good morning, Members of the 1 MS. ENGLISH: Thanks. If you could put Carl's 2 GPAC. I made a special effort to be here today because 2 second slide back up. 3 of you and to be here to honor you and show you the 3 Good morning. My name is Pam English. I'm 4 respect each and every one of you deserve. 4 with Maui Land & Pineapple Company. I wanted to speak 5 On behalf of the small towns and the thousands 5 this morning, a little bit of follow-up on what Karl 6 of people that we've worked with over the course of the 6 Bossert spoke to you about Hali'imaile. 7 three years to come and bring this process together, 7 I am really passionate about what we're doing 8 words is hard to express the deep appreciation that we 8 up at Hali'imaile. What we started there with was an 9 feel towards you for taking so much of your personal 9 intention, an intention to produce more than the 10 time to come and try to forge a wonderful plan. 10 community will use. We started with community meetings. 11 Likewise, the Planning Department deserves great credit 11 I think some of you were even participants there. This 12 for their professionalism and their good, wise, sound 12 crystallized into a vision of an integrated working 13 stick-to-it'iveness in trying to get to the heart of the 13 community vision. 14 matter in sometimes very challenging circumstances. 14 We asked what could it produce, what could it 15 We thank you for giving us the respect of 15 export. Some of the answers were food, energy, of 16 including a lot of what we worked so hard to give back 16 course, education came out of that charrette. That 17 to you, likewise, over the span of those three years. 17 began the birth or, in this case, I guess, the rebirth 18 And mahalo nui loa from the heart of our hearts. We 18 of Hali'imaile Town. We've since seen the Scout Hall 19 thank you so much. Aloha. 19 renovation, what a gem that is, community farms, which 20 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Jocelyn. 20 we subsidized in the beginning, now they're nearly 21 Is there anyone else who would like to 21 self-sufficient. 22 testify? Yes, please come forward. 22 We've even been asked to showcase the 23 MS. FLAMMER: Thank you very much. My name is 23 Hali'imaile vision at the Smithsonian. With only five 24 Gina Flammer. And I'll be very brief. 24 communities from around the world, our little 25 I just want to follow up on Dave DeLeon's 25 Hali'imaile is in that exhibit. It's pretty cool. 6 (Pages 18 to 21) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 22 Page 24 1 I didn't -- I didn't have an intention to fall 1 I've lived on the North Shore for 30 years, so 2 flat on my face on this curb. And it was a mistake and 2 I am concerned with maintaining open space across from 3 it hurt. But imagine if that contractor had started 3 Baldwin Beach. Kailua Gulch does drain a huge amount 4 with the intention, a little bit more concealing, a 4 where the water comes down there. So those floods occur 5 little bit more rounded here, with that as an intention. 5 regularly at this time of the year, and to wash out over 6 I bet everyone that walked by that curb would have 6 Baldwin Beach and really contaminate the ocean along 7 tripped and fall. 7 that shore. That area needs to be preserved. And we 8 You've volunteered for GPAC, I hope, with the 8 need to take a good look at the entire North Shore. As 9 intention to help form a vision for Maui's future. That 9 a regular beachgoer, I can tell you that all those 10 intention shows with items like your alternative transit 10 beaches get an enormous amount of use. So open space 11 corridor. 11 from Hookipa all the way down through Kanaha is 12 At Hali'imaile, the process is years in the 12 critically important. 13 making, but we started with that intention of creating a 13 And I want to just put in a little reminder to 14 community that produces more than it consumes. Give us 14 you from my experience in real estate. I recently 15 the chance to continue our investigation. I ask that 15 checked the amount of inventory that's available by 16 you add the Hali'imaile Country Town to your Rural 16 price category. And you should know that there are more 17 Growth Boundary as depicted on this map that we have 17 homes for sale over $10 million than under $300,000. 18 passed out to you. 18 There are more homes for sale over $4 million than under 19 Thank you very much. 19 $400,000. There are more homes for sale over $2 million 20 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Pam. 20 than under $500,000. 21 Is there anyone else who would like to 21 So as we plan these projects, you need to kind 22 testify? Please come forward. 22 of keep an eye on how important it is to really have 23 MR. SHEEHAN: Good morning. My name is Mark 23 truly affordable housing. The wealthy people who we 24 Sheehan. Good morning. My name is Mark Sheehan. I'm 24 think are paying all of the taxes are leaving. There 25 the president of Maui Tomorrow whose motto is protecting 25 are more than 235 homes for sale over $2 million and Page 23 Page 25 1 Maui's future. I want to thank you for all the 1 almost 500 homes for sale over $5 million. 2 attention you have given to protecting Maui's future. 2 Thank you. 3 I have some general concerns. And I'm sure 3 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you. Thank you, Mark. 4 you share them all. And, yet, it's nobody's kuleana. 4 Is there anyone else who would like to 5 But I wonder, in approving these projects, where the 5 testify? Yes, please come forward. 6 water will come from, and all the other infrastructure 6 MR. KANAHELE: Aloha Kakou. GPAC Members, 7 issues that we are all concerned with. It seems to me 7 mahalo to you and to your staff for all your hard work 8 that we're -- looking at the past, the plans have 8 that you have put in all these many years. 9 greatly out stripped our ability to develop the 9 My name is Daniel Kanahele. I live in South 10 infrastructure. And I just wonder how many of these 10 Maui. I spent the past week walking much of this island 11 projects can actually be improved. 11 in the Ka'apuni Ho'a Kukui o na Moku 'aina. We started 12 I also know the people are not gonna move 12 in Lahaina last Friday and finished yesterday afternoon. 13 someplace where there are not jobs. And I wonder where 13 So I'm really tired. And maybe not as tired as you 14 the jobs are for people who are gonna be living in all 14 folks because you have been walking this path for years. 15 these projects. 15 I don't really know what I want to say to you, 16 And, finally, I wonder where the food comes 16 I just prayed that I may have a moment, that I may 17 from. Water and food are things that I have been more 17 something of worth to you. 18 and more concerned with. Not just me, it turns out that 18 And it was a very enlightening experience for 19 the entire planet is concerned with food security. And 19 us who participated. It was a spiritual experience 20 the primary issue there is what happens when there's an 20 where we were strengthened and revitalized as Kanaka 21 interruption in the food supply. Chuck McLean says that 21 Maoli. It was a walk open to anybody. Much of the 22 we're only a boat accident away from being Amish. The 22 marches took place at night in the cool of the evening, 23 problem is that we don't have the Amish knowledge, nor 23 under the stars, the wind was strong and there wasn't as 24 do we have the tools. And I think that we need to 24 much traffic. 25 really be concerned with developing them. 25 Maui is so beautiful. To see it by foot, hard 7 (Pages 22 to 25) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 26 Page 28 1 to put into words. There is so much beauty left on this 1 will be the community plan, or the community's plan. 2 island. But at the same time, I felt some grief for -- 2 I also wanted to thank all the citizens. 3 there were places that have evolved into something 3 Citizen input is likewise -- or public testimony is 4 that's very un-Hawaiian. I was shocked, when I walked 4 likewise very critical to the success of any community 5 through some areas, how much it had changed, and then 5 planning process. 6 buoyed up and lifted up when I walked the open spaces 6 And then, finally, I would like to thank the 7 that were still dark, so much mana. And we were 7 Long Range staff, Mark, and Mel, Julia, Simone. 8 welcomed by the people in the different mokus. 8 (Applause.) 9 I'm just going to ask at this point you folks 9 MR. HUNT: You guys have done such a good job, 10 try as hard as you can to be sensitive to our historic 10 I'm giving you the day off tomorrow. 11 and cultural sites and to our kupuna, wherever they are. 11 In particular, I would like to thank John and 12 Please. I don't really have much more to say than that, 12 Dave. They have taken the lead on this project. And I 13 but I know you've done your best. Let your na'au guide 13 think they've really done an outstanding job. 14 you. 14 So mahalo to everybody. 15 Mahalo. 15 (Applause.) 16 CHAIR CANNON: Mahalo, Daniel. 16 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Jeff. 17 Is there anyone else who would like to 17 Next up is Tom Blackburn Rodrigues. 18 testify? 18 MR. RODRIGUES: Thank you very much, 19 Tom, you will be right after the director. 19 Mr. Chairman. 20 MR. HUNT: Tom can go first. 20 Aloha. I appreciate the opportunity to 21 MR. RODRIGUES: Go ahead. 21 testify before the group, before a group of my friends 22 MR. HUNT: I thought I would say a few words 22 whom I've come to know for the last three years. I've 23 before we get pressed for time as the day goes on and 23 brought you food, I've brought you water, and I have 24 the patience gets short. 24 tried to sustain you with good thoughts as well and 25 In the community planning field, advisory 25 prayer. So I would like to say aloha to each and every Page 27 Page 29 1 committees are generally under the heading of citizen 1 one of you. 2 participation. And when we study comprehensive 2 I want to just touch on one element that I 3 planning, citizen participation is absolutely critical 3 think is very important, which may not be yet in the 4 to the success of community planning. 4 public conversation. And that is, over the last three 5 And from that perspective, I think after three 5 years, collectively, you have changed the conversation 6 years, perhaps I estimate maybe 100 meetings, countless 6 about planning in Maui County. We will never be able to 7 hours of review and deliberation, I think we can 7 go back to the way it was done before. There was a 8 conclude that the General Plan Update will be a success 8 vision in the late fifties and the early sixties in 9 in a large part to the efforts of this Committee. 9 which there were economic needs that were attempted to 10 And a lot of people have spoken about your 10 be met. And we've seen both the positive and the 11 level of dedication. You've heard all sorts of 11 negative impacts of those decisions. But those 12 accolades. I would like to throw out one fact. During 12 decisions were made for the benefit of the people of 13 this three-year period, over three years, 25-person 13 Maui County as your passion has led you to always keep 14 committee, very large committee, not one person has 14 the people of Maui County first. 15 resigned. Not one person. So I think that really 15 I want to just say that, as you go forward, I 16 speaks to your level of dedication. 16 hope your document is a consensus document because your 17 I want to thank each of you for your 17 three years of work is important, not only the specific 18 contribution. There have been some challenging moments 18 areas, but because you are now in the public square and 19 along the way, but I think we've persevered. 19 the conversation can never be changed. We will never be 20 And we can all look forward to the continued 20 able to go back to the way it was done before. And 21 Maui Island Plan Review. There's several steps along 21 that, I think, ultimately will be your legacy of the 22 the review of the process and the adopted County-Wide 22 three years of work that you have put in. 23 Policy Plan. And the Maui Island Plan will be highly 23 I would also like to say a very heartfelt 24 influenced by the efforts of this Committee. It won't 24 thank you to my friends in the Planning Department, to 25 be the GPAC plan, it won't be the Department plan, it 25 Mr. Hunt, to his staff, who have listened, who have 8 (Pages 26 to 29) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 30 Page 32 1 worked hard. And as a person who has both commented on 1 public testimony. And I want to thank all you out there 2 the meetings and sat in the audience, felt your 2 in the public who have been here so many times before 3 frustrations, been exasperated at times, I've been 3 and helped us get through this process. Your input, as 4 honored to be able to be in the room at times when there 4 Jeff mentioned, is critical to a good process. And we 5 were only two or three of us out there listening and 5 thank you very, very, very much. 6 commenting as you all did your work. 6 Okay. Do you want a break? Five-minute 7 But, again, I would just like to conclude by 7 recess. 8 saying that I think that what you have done is you have 8 (Recess, 10:49 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) 9 changed the way that Maui County will think about 9 CHAIR CANNON: If everybody is ready, we'll 10 planning from this point on. We are now in a new era. 10 get started again. I call the meeting back to order. 11 We have entered the 21st Century. And community grass 11 And Dick and Susan are gonna be helping us 12 roots planning will be the standard by which all 12 with this portion of the meeting. We are on Agenda Item 13 projects, all ideas, are forever viewed. And, for that, 13 Number E, Letter E, on E1, Directed Growth element. 14 each and every one of you should be very, very proud. 14 Dick or Susan. 15 Mahalo. 15 MEMBER MOIKEHA: We're gonna use the same 16 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you very much, Tom. 16 review process except we're gonna go back to the way we 17 Is there anyone else who would like to 17 did it in West Maui. 18 testify? 18 CHAIR CANNON: Excuse me, Susan. 19 (Silence.) 19 Could we have quiet back there? Thank you. 20 CHAIR CANNON: Seeing none, yes, Stacie. 20 If you need to talk, you can go outside. Thanks. 21 You're a member of the Committee. Oh, you have 21 Okay, Susan. 22 something. Oh, go ahead. Why don't you do that? 22 MEMBER MOIKEHA: So we'll give you a brief 23 MEMBER THORLAKSON: Before we get started -- 23 introduction, then we'll ask you to pose a motion on the 24 Stacie Thorlakson from Kihei -- I just wanted to echo 24 floor with a second. We'll start -- the Chair will 25 what Director Hunt had to say in regards to 25 point to one end of the room, doesn't matter where it Page 31 Page 33 1 complimenting the staff. I'm sure I talk on behalf of 1 is, we will go around the room, you'll have an 2 all of the fellow GPAC Members that we really thank you, 2 opportunity to make your comments to the motion or 3 the staff, the court reporters, for all of your effort 3 question of clarity, if you need to, to the motion only. 4 in making this plan, in listening to us. And even 4 You will get one opportunity to speak your piece to 5 though we sometimes tend to disagree, it's moving 5 that, then we'll call for the question. So as Tom 6 forward. And today is the last day. And the 6 points out, wherever he starts, just raise your hand so 7 friendships that have been built and the educational 7 he knows that you want to speak. If he doesn't see your 8 learning experience have been wonderful for me. 8 hand up, he'll keep moving along. But we need to do 9 So I also wanted to present a card to Director 9 that for time and efficiency. And it seemed to work 10 Hunt and to his staff on behalf of all of us as a thank 10 better the way we did it on the west side. 11 you. 11 Dick and I have a different opinion about 12 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Stacie. 12 where we should start. He would like to do Kula, 13 MEMBER THORLAKSON: Sorry. Just one other 13 Upcountry, I would like to start with Central. So we're 14 thing. 14 going pose it to the group as to your desire where you 15 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 15 want to go next. Please put it in the form of a motion. 16 MEMBER THORLAKSON: And then for my fellow 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I believe we had -- 17 GPAC Members, as a friendship and a thank you, I wanted 17 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 18 to let you know that I baked Tollhouse chocolate chip 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The proposal is we start 19 cookies with some milk. So help yourself over here. 19 Upcountry, do the rural areas first, get those out of 20 Thank you. 20 the way and then we'll be able to concentrate on Central 21 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you. 21 Maui thereafter. 22 Is there anyone else who would like to 22 CHAIR CANNON: Luci. 23 testify? 23 MEMBER deNAIE: I would like to make a motion 24 (Silence.) 24 that we start Upcountry because I think it will take 25 CHAIR CANNON: Seeing none, we will close 25 less time. And I think in Central Maui, we have some 9 (Pages 30 to 33) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 34 Page 36 1 things to discuss, we have new projects that have been 1 is being separated from Makawao by a -- by the 2 proposed, all kinds of things. So I would move that we 2 highway -- bypass, highway, with a greenbelt between the 3 start with Upcountry. 3 two. And there's a small area on the upper part of 4 Also, point of information, Mr. Chair. It 4 Pukalani, which is in geography terms, below Pukalani 5 would be better if you sat up here because you can't 5 Terrace. You'll see a pineapple field there which is 6 always see the people like right to the right of you. 6 being -- is one area that's being expanded for the Urban 7 And since it's gonna be about people waving their hands 7 development. 8 and everything, I think you would want to have maximum 8 In Makawao Town, one area that's being 9 visibility of who has got their hands up. Just a 9 recommended for expansion is the area that's labeled 10 suggestion. 10 Seabury Hall, in the lower right-hand side corner there, 11 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. I'll try here first. 11 which it includes the Seabury Hall campus. And around 12 And if it becomes a problem, I'll move. 12 the Seabury Hall campus is a Rural Residential area that 13 Is there a second? Seconded by Stan. 13 would be an expansion of Makawao Town. 14 Further discussion? 14 Going up to Kula, the next area up -- I don't 15 (Silence.) 15 have my Map 15. In -- continue Upcountry, this map, U2, 16 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor of the 16 Map 19. In your numbers, Kula is U2. Okay. I'm sorry. 17 motion, raise your hands. Thirteen in favor. 17 Start with U1, Upcountry Number 1, U1. That's Map 18. 18 All opposed? Six opposed. 18 This is the upper area of Pukalani. And there's one 19 Any abstentions? 19 expansion area there. It's not clearly seen. What you 20 The motion carries. You're on, Dick and 20 will see, in the very top, the word "Pukalani Urban" is 21 Susan. 21 written, just to the right of that is an area that you 22 MEMBER MOIKEHA: So Dick will take you through 22 can see no houses in. And that area is recommended for 23 this. 23 expansion in addition to what is already existing in and 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: What we're going to try to 24 around the Pukalani area. 25 do, in going line by line, we'll look at the whole 25 Pukalani -- across from that, Pukalani Urban Page 35 Page 37 1 region Upcountry, that includes Makawao, Pukalani and 1 area, is -- is like a little bubble in red. That's King 2 Kula, and ask if there are any glaring errors in the IRC 2 Kekaulike High School. Kula 200, which is now 3 report or things that need to be added or subtracted 3 agricultural two-acre lots being recommended as Rural 4 from the thing, rather than looking at each community 4 Residential. Then moving up into Kula itself, at the 5 and going through detail. 5 bottom of that map, you'll see several areas, large 6 I will give a rundown what we have. If you 6 areas there that are all being recommended for Rural 7 take a look at Map 14, you'll see the area that -- 7 Residential. Those are existing Rural Residential 8 excuse me. Makawao is N3. N3, Makawao. And I will 8 areas, but they have many vacant lots in that area 9 describe what the IRC's recommending in that area. N, 9 awaiting water meters. 10 neighbor 3, N3. It includes Makawao and a portion of 10 Then on the next map, down to the south of 11 Pukalani on the left. Basically, the recommendation is 11 that previous one, is Map U2, Map Number 19. Is it Map 12 that Makawao be designated as a Country Town, the large 12 19? 13 area there in yellow, that there be a portion in blue, 13 MEMBER MICHEL: 18. 14 which is already existing, Makawao Ag, it's Rural 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: 18? Okay. I guess people 15 Residential. It's agricultural two-acre lots that are 15 have numbered them differently. It's U2, Kula U2. You 16 gonna be put into Rural Residential. 16 will see there primarily rural areas throughout Kula. 17 Hali'imaile, there was a recommendation there 17 Those are Rural Residential areas with the exception, 18 be no change. There's an existing community on the 18 there in the middle, where you see Waiakoa, that's where 19 right side of Hali'imaile and there's an additional 19 Morihara Store is, Kula School, et cetera, which is 20 parcel on the left side which you can see is undeveloped 20 being indicated as a Rural Service Center. There are 21 at this stage, but has entitlement to it. Over to the 21 several stores there, post office, school, et cetera. 22 right of Makawao Town is Kokomo rural area. And way 22 And then, finally, moving down to the next 23 over to the far right in the top of that map, you'll see 23 map, which would be Map Number 20 -- or 19, depending 24 Hanzawa Store area, a small Rural Service Center. 24 how you numbered them -- U3. And in U3, you'll see, 25 On the left is Pukalani. You'll see Pukalani 25 there again, more Rural Residential areas, with one 10 (Pages 34 to 37) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 38 Page 40 1 small exception. And that's all the way down to Keokea 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: N3 is the first of our 2 where there is a store there, coffee shop, et cetera, 2 Upcountry areas. 3 which is indicated as a Rural Service Center, small 3 MEMBER SUZUKI: What about 2? 4 Rural Service Center at that end of Kula. 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: 2 is Haiku. Different 5 That summarizes the main characteristics of 5 Community Plan District. We're trying to do one 6 the recommendations for the Upcountry region. What I 6 Community Plan District after another. So N3 is the 7 think we'll do is going around the circle, Tom, we'll 7 district that includes Makawao and Pukalani. 8 take a motion first and then we'll -- 8 CHAIR CANNON: Any input on N3? 9 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair? 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let me explain, the 10 MEMBER FRANCO: Point of information. Stan 10 question was asked, what is being recommended by the IRC 11 Franco. 11 in that area. And it's two areas that are on this map. 12 CHAIR CANNON: Stan. 12 One is the area north of -- excuse me -- south of 13 MEMBER FRANCO: Of all the, you know, lines 13 Makawao Town labeled Seabury Hall. 14 that we have on these maps, what are, just in summary, 14 MEMBER SUZUKI: 3 on the map? 15 the IRC recommending for expansion? If you can just go 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Can you get N3? 16 over those. 16 MR. MICHAELSON: I could put it on. 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Will do. 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: It's this area here. 18 The recommended areas for expansion include 18 Seabury Hall. This is Makawao Center. This will be the 19 Seabury Hall area, small extension to Makawao Town with 19 center of Makawao Town. That's Hali'imaile up at the 20 Rural -- 20 north end up there. This is the Seabury Hall extension 21 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, you know, we are 21 that's being recommended Rural Residential. The other 22 having a hell of a time following what is going on, 22 area that's on this map that's being -- is this area 23 we're jumping from map to map. You know, for me, I 23 here. 24 would want us to go map to map, what we have and the 24 Can you turn the bright light off? There you 25 locations. It may take us a little more time, but I 25 go. Page 39 Page 41 1 think, for me, easier to follow so we can look at the 1 It keeps going out. Okay. This is -- at the 2 details on each of the maps. Because we may have our 2 lower end of the Pukalani Town, Pukalani Terrace, 3 own feelings, you know, about certain areas on each map 3 pineapple field, 45 acres, 250 units being recommended. 4 that may not be reflected on the item the Planning 4 This is the bypass road and this would be a greenbelt 5 Department came up with or what the IRC came up with. 5 separating Makawao and Pukalani Town. 6 So I don't feel real comfortable with this jumping all 6 Up here at this end of Pukalani -- it's not on 7 around. 7 this map, it will be on the next map -- you'll see 8 I want to start with Upcountry. If we are 8 another addition to Pukalani Town. 9 gonna start with Upcountry, let's start with N1 and go 9 So the three additions being recommended, 10 in order and go Upcountry. 10 Pukalani here, Pukalani here and upper Makawao over 11 CHAIR CANNON: You're suggesting we go map by 11 here. 12 map? 12 CHAIR CANNON: Do I hear a motion with regard 13 MEMBER SUZUKI: Yes. 13 to the Map N3? 14 CHAIR CANNON: Is that okay with you two? 14 MEMBER SUZUKI: I got a question. 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I think we should take a 15 CHAIR CANNON: Warren Suzuki. 16 look at the whole region, but it's up to the group. 16 MEMBER SUZUKI: I want to make a motion to 17 CHAIR CANNON: It's difficult to go back and 17 include the Puukoa subdivision into the Makawao Country 18 forth. 18 Town area. Puukoa subdivision is that bottom right-hand 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Then let's do -- 19 side corner of the Makawao Country Town area, right off 20 CHAIR CANNON: N3? 20 of Makawao Avenue. Do you see it? 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: -- N3 first. 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This area? 22 MEMBER MOIKEHA: What about N1? 22 MEMBER SUZUKI: That's a residential area that 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's Haiku side, Paia. 23 was done for Maui Land & Pineapple Company employees. 24 That's North district. 24 That's a residential subdivision. 25 CHAIR CANNON: So N3. 25 So I'm a little bit -- for one thing, it needs 11 (Pages 38 to 41) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 42 Page 44 1 to be included, but, at the same time, I'm a little bit 1 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, I'm just clarifying 2 concerned that obvious subdivisions that should be 2 the motion. 3 included in the Makawao Town area is not. And I have a 3 CHAIR CANNON: Can you wait until the Chair 4 question in my mind in terms of are there other 4 recognizes you, please? Okay, I'm recognizing you now. 5 situations that are out there that we may not notice or 5 Speak. Just don't speak out of turn. It will make the 6 be aware of. But I want to make a motion to include 6 meeting much less controlled. Go ahead, Warren. 7 Puukoa. 7 Now you're going to take your ball and go home 8 MEMBER deNAIE: Second. 8 or what? 9 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Seconded by Lucienne, 9 MEMBER SUZUKI: Yeah. 10 moved by Warren Suzuki. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. 11 Warren, previously -- I have a question for 11 MEMBER SUZUKI: Chair? 12 you -- you recused yourself on another Maui Land & Pine 12 CHAIR CANNON: Anyone else on this? 13 project. So I'm curious as to why you wouldn't do that 13 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair? 14 here. 14 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 15 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, the subdivision was 15 MEMBER SUZUKI: The comment that you just made 16 done a long time ago. Maui Land & Pine is the longest 16 is not an appropriate comment, similar to a comment that 17 ownership in the Puukoa subdivision, all the lots are 17 you made the other night. You know, keep your comments 18 owned by private individuals. 18 to yourself. We are each individuals, we can offer our 19 CHAIR CANNON: I see. Thank you for 19 own comments, but we shouldn't be commenting about 20 clarifying that. 20 somebody else. 21 Yes, Lucienne. 21 CHAIR CANNON: I'm offering you an opportunity 22 MEMBER deNAIE: Speaking to the motion, I 22 to speak, Warren. If you want to, great; if not, that's 23 think we need to adopt a general policy. I share 23 okay. 24 Warren's concerns that we're overlooking little details 24 MEMBER SUZUKI: Chair, you made a comment 25 that later on kind of -- someone will say, "Well, GPAC 25 about take my ball and go home. You know, that is a Page 43 Page 45 1 didn't include that in." And, yet, we would have if we 1 very inappropriate comment. Keep to the issue. 2 were more aware of it. 2 CHAIR CANNON: Next. Anyone? 3 For instance, the Kula area, around Kula 3 Frank. 4 Hardware, you know. It's great that citizens have 4 MEMBER SYLVA: Mr. Chair, I think you have 5 brought that all up, but could we have a general policy, 5 been out of order and kind of sarcastic. Today is our 6 would this be acceptable to staff, that if areas are 6 last day -- 7 discovered within these community growth boundaries that 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Microphone. 8 are existing residential areas that they put -- put in 8 CHAIR CANNON: Please use the mike, Frank. 9 either the appropriate Country Town or Rural Growth or 9 MEMBER SYLVA: Yeah. Where's the mike? 10 whatever it is? So that we reflect the fact they're 10 Mr. Chair -- I'm Frank from West Maui. 11 really there and are not -- you know, are not putting 11 Mr. Chair, you being kind of sarcastic this morning to 12 forth something that's kind of an incomplete work. 12 Warren. Today is our last day. And I don't think it's 13 CHAIR CANNON: So, Warren, is there a motion 13 called for. 14 to accept what's -- what's pictured up there with this 14 CHAIR CANNON: Anyone else? 15 addition? Oh, just the addition? Okay. 15 (Silence.) 16 Is there more discussion on that? 16 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor of the 17 Can you point out the location for us so 17 motion, please raise your hand. 18 everybody knows what we are talking about? Do you see 18 MEMBER SKOG: What is the motion? 19 that there? That was somehow excluded from the growth 19 CHAIR CANNON: The motion is to add the area 20 boundary. 20 that Warren is talking about. 21 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, just to clarify. 21 Do you know where it is? 22 Apparently, there are some Members of the -- 22 Nineteen in favor. 23 CHAIR CANNON: Warren, can you wait until 23 All opposed? 24 you're -- 24 The motion carries. 25 MEMBER SKOG: He's clarifying the motion. 25 The Chair abstains. 12 (Pages 42 to 45) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 46 Page 48 1 Anything else on this area? 1 mean, we made a motion. The other motion that Warren 2 Yes, Stacie. 2 made has passed. So we've included that area. Just to 3 MEMBER THORLAKSON: I think Lucienne is 3 let -- keep people kind of abreast. 4 actually before me. 4 CHAIR CANNON: Sure. 5 MEMBER deNAIE: Sorry, Chair, you can't see 5 MEMBER deNAIE: We made a motion to consider 6 over here. 6 everything that's on the map as included. Stan has 7 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Lucienne. 7 suggested we add an area that is not developed. And the 8 MEMBER deNAIE: I just wanted to make a motion 8 IRC did consider this and we -- we were talked out of it 9 to accept the map as amended with the caveat that we 9 by Doug MacCleur, for better or for worse. He had 10 have a policy that addresses, in any of the maps here, 10 farmed that area and said it had really bad drainage 11 if there are existing developed areas that have not been 11 problems and that it had deep gulches. And he just felt 12 included in the appropriate growth boundaries, that 12 that it was going to be an area that was going to cause 13 those maps be adjusted to include those existing 13 more impacts to runoff and so forth if it was developed. 14 neighborhoods. 14 Although, of course, it's right, you know, next to 15 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? Seconded by 15 Makawao Town. We all thought it was logical, but, you 16 Dick. 16 know, Doug brought those things up. So I don't know if 17 Further discussion? Stan. 17 he is here today. I don't see him. So I -- I'm just 18 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 18 going to, you know, mention that this was the discussion 19 I do want to amend the motion. It was 19 in the IRC, the 12 of us -- 11 -- 12 of us who discussed 20 suggested by the Main Street folks that an Urban Growth 20 it. And that's why we did eventually decide to put that 21 area be developed on -- off of Aala Place across from 21 aside because Doug had farmed the land and seemed to 22 the Veterans' cemetery. And I would like to add that 22 know it very well. So I'm not speaking to against or 23 section to the Urban Growth or Makawao Town. 23 for the motion; I'm just giving some background that 24 MEMBER VICENS: I will second. 24 would not otherwise be available. 25 CHAIR CANNON: Is that that area you are 25 CHAIR CANNON: Chubby. Page 47 Page 49 1 talking about there? Do you want to point at that, 1 MEMBER VICENS: Good morning, Chair. 2 Stan? 2 Chubby Vicens. 3 And who seconded that? 3 Yes, we did have the discussion. And I 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Point of information. 4 respect Doug for his position. However, the community 5 CHAIR CANNON: Chubby seconded. Move to amend 5 is reaching out to us and asking us to let this get 6 by Stan. 6 included so that it can have a discussion on it when we 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's an amendment to this 7 get there at the CAC level. And I think that -- I think 8 one? It's so different from the previous motion, that's 8 it's a very prudent consideration. 9 why I'm asking if it could be done as a separate motion. 9 Thank you very much. And I will be supporting 10 MEMBER SKOG: Once it's accepted. 10 it. 11 MEMBER deNAIE: It would be. 11 CHAIR CANNON: Frank Sylva. 12 CHAIR CANNON: One is to accept the motion as 12 MEMBER SYLVA: Frank, West Maui. 13 amended and this is with the addition of the area that 13 Mr. Chair, I move to accept the map with the 14 Warren Suzuki pointed out, and this one is to amend that 14 addition of approximately -- 15 motion to include this area that's being pointed at. 15 CHAIR CANNON: Wait a minute. There's a 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's not a developed 16 motion on the floor, Frank. Are you gonna amend the 17 area. It's inconsistent with the motion. That's what 17 amendment? We're discussing the amendment to the 18 I'm saying. 18 original motion. 19 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Expanding the area. 19 MEMBER SYLVA: Okay. 20 CHAIR CANNON: Any other discussion on the 20 CHAIR CANNON: Any other discussion of that? 21 amendment? 21 Yes, Warren Suzuki. 22 Yes, Stacie -- Lucienne. 22 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, can we follow the 23 MEMBER deNAIE: Just point of information, 23 procedure that Susan outlined for us, before we get into 24 Mr. Chair. 24 discussions, where a motion is made and we move around 25 So we made an amendment. This would be -- I 25 similar to how we did in West Maui? Whether you want to 13 (Pages 46 to 49) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 50 Page 52 1 start from there, from there, or here or whatever, but, 1 MEMBER MOIKEHA: First of all, I'm gonna be 2 you know, give each Member an opportunity to speak on 2 consistent with what I've said throughout this entire 3 the motion if they wish to. Because, right now, seems 3 process. One of the things I do weigh in the criteria 4 like we just kind of jumping around. And if we do that, 4 of whether I think something is appropriate for growth 5 we never gonna get through these maps. 5 is public input in that particular community. I did 6 CHAIR CANNON: Stan. 6 that consistently with the west side, south side. And I 7 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 7 will support this motion on Makawao. 8 As the maker of the motion, I would hope that 8 CHAIR CANNON: Others? 9 I could speak first on the motion so that people 9 (Silence.) 10 understand my rationale. 10 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor of the 11 Am I on? 11 motion, please raise your hand. Fourteen in favor. 12 Again, what Chubby said, this is the community 12 All opposed? Three opposed. 13 that's asking for this development. We've heard over 13 Any abstentions? One, two, and the Chair 14 and over again that we don't want to limit where people 14 abstains. That's three. 15 live, other people want to live in a rural area. It 15 The motion passes. 16 gives an opportunity for people that don't want to live 16 So now we're back to the original motion. 17 in Kahului or Wailuku or urbanized areas to have to be 17 MEMBER BRUCE: I have a friendly amendment. 18 in a Country Town. It makes sense, it's contiguous to 18 CHAIR CANNON: We'll now include that, this 19 developments in that area. And so I think we have to 19 new area. 20 give the community an opportunity to grow a little bit, 20 Lesley. 21 but, also, to have that opportunity to live in an area 21 MEMBER BRUCE: I have a friendly amendment to 22 that they want to live. 22 make. A greenway, a green space to separate Olinda from 23 So that's the reason I'm making the request 23 Makawao at the Seabury Hall extension. Because Seabury 24 for this amendment. 24 Hall is in Olinda and -- 25 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion on the 25 CHAIR CANNON: Is that the area you're talking Page 51 Page 53 1 amendment? All -- 1 about, where the red pointer is? 2 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chair? 2 MEMBER BRUCE: Olinda is the name of the 3 CHAIR CANNON: Susan. 3 Alexander home that was built. And it is a Spanish word 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: If you would, go to Wallette 4 and it refers to that area. People that live there 5 and just go right around and see if anybody has a 5 perceive themselves as being in Olinda. 6 comment on the motion. 6 CHAIR CANNON: Right where the pointer is? 7 CHAIR CANNON: Lesley. 7 MEMBER BRUCE: Yes. Along the boundary that 8 MEMBER BRUCE: Lesley Bruce, Hana. 8 separates Olinda from Makawao. I feel we need a 9 I will be voting against this amendment 9 separation so that the people who perceive themselves as 10 because Makawao is gridlocked. Baldwin Avenue is unsafe 10 being in Olinda will be in Olinda. If there is some -- 11 and people get hit on it. And adding people to that -- 11 if I am wrong, I stand corrected. 12 those critical corners is -- would put them in harm's 12 Thank you. 13 way. 13 CHAIR CANNON: You're asking for a greenbelt 14 Thank you. 14 between Makawao Town and where the Seabury Hall addition 15 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 15 is, is that correct? 16 Jeanne. 16 MEMBER BRUCE: I believe Olinda Road starts at 17 Warren. 17 the intersection of Baldwin Avenue and Makawao -- 18 MEMBER SKOG: Carl? 18 Makawao. And is the -- maybe the question is Jonathan 19 MEMBER LINDQUIST: No. 19 Green's church, Pookela, is that in Olinda or Makawao? 20 CHAIR CANNON: Anyone on this side? You've 20 Okay. So I may be wrong. People will have 21 already -- okay. I call the question. All those in 21 their own perception of where they're at. 22 favor -- 22 Thank you. 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chair, I have a comment. 23 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Anything more on the 24 Waiting for my turn. 24 motion, the main motion? The main motion? The motion 25 CHAIR CANNON: Go ahead. 25 is to accept these areas that you see on your map here 14 (Pages 50 to 53) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 54 Page 56 1 and on the map N3 with the addition of the two areas 1 Anyone else? 2 that have been added. 2 Trevor. 3 MEMBER VICENS: Mr. Chair? 3 Yes, Warren Shibuya. 4 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Chubby. Oh, Frank Sylva. 4 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Thank you, Chair. 5 MEMBER SYLVA: Thank you, Chair. Frank from 5 My name is Warren Shibuya. 6 West Maui. 6 I just wanted to say that the land adjacent to 7 I move to accept the map with the addition of 7 the Hali'imaile area is actually entitled by A&B for 8 approximately 376 acres of Rural Growth, Country Town 8 development. So those are some of the things that we 9 bordering above the existing Rural Growth Boundary in 9 need to understand, too, in addition to what is being 10 Hali'imaile. Instead of Urban, I think it is okay for 10 proposed as already been entitled, already approved for 11 keep the Rural Growth Boundary and give the community 11 building. 12 the proper size to allow infrastructure to be built. 12 Thank you. 13 CHAIR CANNON: So you're making an amendment? 13 CHAIR CANNON: Moving around. Hans. 14 MEMBER SYLVA: Yeah. 14 John Blumer-Buell. 15 CHAIR CANNON: You're moving for an amendment 15 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: John from Hana. 16 to add the area which is where Dick is pointing at? 16 This is for point of clarification. On the 17 MEMBER SYLVA: That's correct. 17 new map that we got with the IRC, existing Rural Growth 18 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 18 Boundary, can you explain the acreage and number of 19 MEMBER VICENS: Second. 19 units in that yellow area right now? 20 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Chubby. 20 CHAIR CANNON: The solid line area? It says 21 Further discussion on the amendment? 21 up there 70 acres and 148 units. 22 Warren Suzuki. 22 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's not the -- 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Start on one end. 23 CHAIR CANNON: That's the area you're talking 24 CHAIR CANNON: I'll start with Warren Suzuki. 24 about, right? 25 MEMBER SUZUKI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 25 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Yeah. Page 55 Page 57 1 I will be recusing myself from participating 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let me try to -- 2 in the vote on this particular item, but I would like to 2 CHAIR CANNON: That's the one he was talking 3 offer a couple comments. 3 about. 4 I was born and raised in Lower Paia. And 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This one is A&B's 70 acres, 5 while growing up, you know, I had the opportunity and 5 148 units right there. And this -- the proposal that's 6 the privilege of sharing the experiences of all of 6 being now made is for a much larger area in this area 7 Upcountry. I remember distinctly as I was growing up 7 here. We don't have a unit count or acreage. 8 going to Hali'imaile, going to the Scout Hall and 8 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Moving around. Chubby. 9 sharing in the soup kitchen that the unions would put 9 MEMBER VICENS: Mr. Chair, Chubby Vicens. 10 together whenever the members were on strike, and 10 I participated in almost all of the charrettes 11 recognizing the membership unable to be able to afford 11 that took place up there. What started out was a lot of 12 to feed their families. Hali'imaile was a thriving town 12 concerns by the people that lived in the area that this 13 primarily because -- a community, because of Maui 13 was a little too much. And I think that after several 14 Pineapple Company's operations there. There was a 14 months of intense community participation, the mood 15 service station that's there -- was there right above 15 changed. And I would say that 98 percent of the people 16 the ballpark, no longer there. You can probably see 16 that participated bought into this particular 17 remnants on it -- of it. But I think, you know, there's 17 subdivision. There's all the things you want. You have 18 a -- there's a -- there is a great opportunity to create 18 affordable housing, you've got sustainability, you've 19 something up there as far as Hali'imaile. And doing 19 got the wind and energy concepts strengthened in here. 20 something would probably provide the residents of Maui 20 And, to my surprise, it wasn't -- it wasn't on the -- on 21 an opportunity to continue to live in an area that they 21 the maps earlier, but that's -- that's not my choice, 22 grew up in and be able to share in the experiences that 22 that's Maui Land & Pine's call. But since they have 23 the residents that lived there for a long time may be 23 come before us, I will support Frank in his motion to 24 able to offer. 24 include that in the future Upcountry because I think 25 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Moving around this way. 25 that's where growth can and should take place. 15 (Pages 54 to 57) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 58 Page 60 1 Thank you. 1 and perhaps really realize who the community is, what 2 CHAIR CANNON: Moving around. Hinano. 2 they're asking for, and if they changed their minds, 3 MEMBER RODRIGUES: If the community has 3 then how come they changed. 4 spoken, then we shall act. 4 I mean, for those of us born and raised here, 5 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 5 we look at the community that was thriving. It may have 6 MEMBER deNAIE: I've heard a number of 6 been 300, it may have been 510. And that is what we 7 discussions about this particular area, including the 7 look at preserving the small village type of concept. I 8 joint proposal by A&B and Maui Land & Pine, which I 8 think once we start to urbanize things, and then give -- 9 believe was for something around 3,000 residences, 9 you know, my fear is that we -- if we could be sure that 10 something like that. So I think it would be very 10 we would revive and rejuvenate what once was there, it 11 helpful for us to know the number of residences that are 11 would be great. But we cannot guarantee that simply 12 proposed here. So perhaps one of our GPAC Members could 12 because the iwi is there, but the mana is not, perhaps. 13 provide us that information. 13 Especially if you have the turn-of-the-century kind of 14 Also, you know, we have policies about trying 14 concepts that come about and the financial things that 15 to keep our best agricultural land for future 15 happen. We don't want to be able to give the off-shore 16 agriculture. Now, it's my understanding that this is 16 market that opportunity to come in and usurp that once 17 some of our primest, primest agricultural land, so I 17 small village concept. That's my concern. So I'm kind 18 think we should keep that in mind. 18 of conflicted on whether or not this is a good thing to 19 And, also, the water supply that was planned 19 add on 3,000 or whatever more. 20 for this area. The well that's along the Piiholo Road, 20 CHAIR CANNON: Does staff know how many units 21 it is my understanding that that well is not proving as 21 were proposed for this? 22 productive as was once thought. And we don't have that 22 MEMBER deNAIE: Chubby does. 23 information, either. But in speaking with the County's 23 MEMBER VICENS: I'm trying to tell you. 24 water consultants, the amount of water that was being 24 MEMBER deNAIE: Chubby does. 25 surmised could be obtained from that well, that figure 25 CHAIR CANNON: Chubby has the number, so shall Page 59 Page 61 1 did not seem like it was gonna pan out at all. So that 1 we break our process here? 2 is the water source, it's my understanding, for this 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I just think if we can get 3 particular project. And, I guess, maybe for other 3 quick information, acreage and numbers. 4 future Upcountry projects. But I -- I think that we 4 MEMBER VICENS: I have a memo from Ryan 5 need to keep these matters in mind. 5 Churchill, last week on the 24th, he points out that 6 Yes, we received a presentation September of, 6 this consists of 376 acres and about 1,450 units. It's 7 you know, last year about many, many different projects, 7 on the memo that was presented by Maui Land & Pine last 8 including, I guess, a portion of this. And it would be 8 week. 9 good to know how many units we're looking at because 9 Thank you. 10 that's the number of cars that are gonna be on Baldwin 10 CHAIR CANNON: Dick, did you have a comment? 11 Avenue. And so -- and Hali'imaile Road and -- and 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yes. Previously, before 12 Haleakala Highway and so forth and so on. So that's -- 12 being sentenced to this task of GPAC, I was on the 13 hopefully, someone will come forward with that 13 Upcountry Community Plan. And more than 15 years ago, 14 information. 14 we discussed Hali'imaile. And we added -- we added this 15 CHAIR CANNON: Chubby, I see you, but we're 15 area here to the Hali'imaile community. And right -- 16 doing a process where we're moving right around. 16 previously -- presently, it's this area. This area was 17 MEMBER VICENS: I have some numbers for you. 17 added to it. And we felt that it would be a worthwhile 18 CHAIR CANNON: Each one has one comment. Is 18 addition to make that a larger community. It has not 19 there anyone else on this side as we speak? 19 yet been developed, still has 146 units that, over the 20 Yes, Kehau, please. 20 next two years, I hope, will be doubled to make 21 MEMBER FILIMOE'ATU: Thank you. 21 Hali'imaile larger. 22 Kehau from Kahului. 22 I feel strongly that this would not be an 23 I think when we look at what we intend and 23 appropriate area to develop at this point as an addition 24 what our policies are and then what we're looking at and 24 that is being suggested today. I think it's talking 25 what we add on, it sometimes behooves us to step back 25 about the very, very best agricultural lands on Maui. I 16 (Pages 58 to 61) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 62 Page 64 1 think that it would totally change the Hali'imaile 1 So I will be voting against this. 2 community from the type of small residential community 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I give you back the Chair. 3 it is now into a much larger -- as was just mentioned, 3 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Dick. 4 1,450 additional units. 4 MEMBER SKOG: Point of order. 5 We've gotten very little information on this 5 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 6 about the commitment of the owners of the land or the 6 MEMBER SKOG: I believe once you relinquish 7 developer as to what they would add to infrastructure. 7 your chairmanship on a matter, you need to be off as 8 Whereas, for example, in Olowalu, the highway and other 8 Chair until the matter is settled. So Dick needs to 9 things were mentioned, in terms of, you know, protection 9 remain Chair until this matter is settled. 10 of wastewater, et cetera, et cetera. Whether we agree 10 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, but I wish we had Corp 11 or disagree, a lot of information came there. We have 11 Counsel here. 12 very little information. 12 MEMBER SKOG: There is no but, that is the way 13 And I'll strongly vote against this. 13 it goes, once you give up your chair position on an 14 CHAIR CANNON: Susan. 14 issue. 15 MEMBER MOIKEHA: As I said before, I try to be 15 CHAIR CANNON: Right. I know that. 16 consistent with what I've done throughout. Yes, I weigh 16 MEMBER SUZUKI: Second. 17 heavily on the vision, the objectives, goals and 17 CHAIR CANNON: Our committees are of citizens 18 policies, and the site criteria that was given to us. 18 that still have -- 19 Which we weighted, believe it or not, in the IRC of most 19 MEMBER SKOG: Mr. Chair, are we following -- 20 importance. I did participate in the charrettes up in 20 CHAIR CANNON: -- the ability to have input. 21 this area with this project. I did so when I was on the 21 MEMBER SKOG: Are we following the order or 22 Planning Commission. 22 not? 23 One thing I have never done was to weigh 23 If we are following it, once you give up your 24 publicly in testimony for or against a project since I 24 Chair position, in order to participate in discussion on 25 became a member of this GPAC. And I deliberately 25 a matter, you've given it up for the duration of that Page 63 Page 65 1 withheld from doing that because I wanted to remain open 1 matter. 2 to all information that was coming my way. 2 CHAIR CANNON: I understand your point, but 3 I would support this motion. And I would also 3 Dick has also given comment. 4 say if you don't want the full acreage or the full 4 MEMBER SKOG: Then maybe it needs to go to 5 number of units, that could be adjusted. But for me, 5 Susan or someone else. 6 it's going back to is it an appropriate place or not. 6 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Tell you what -- 7 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. It's to me now. And I 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The important thing right 8 will hand the Chair to Dick while I comment. 8 now is to keep order here and keep the discussion going. 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Go ahead. 9 I'll remain Chair right now until we finish this item, 10 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you. 10 and then I will give it back to the Chair. 11 I -- I have problems with this -- with this 11 CHAIR CANNON: That would be fine. 12 project. One is that it would be 10 times what the IRC 12 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Stan. 13 had intended to allow for this area. In fact, with the 13 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 14 area we're allowing, it would be more than 10 times the 14 When we talked about, at the start of this 15 number of units that IRC had envisioned for this area. 15 process, that we are reviewing the maps, we said to be 16 Also, one of our policies in our County-Wide 16 guided by our Land Use Principles. And Principle 4 says 17 Policy Plan is to preserve the unique character of each 17 here, I'm just going to read one sentence, "Protecting 18 distinct community, small town, neighborhood in Maui 18 agricultural lands and natural and scenic landscapes is 19 County. And what I see in the -- in the map that was 19 critical if Maui's strong economy and lifestyle are to 20 handed to us by the developer is this project would come 20 be perpetuated." I think this really creates a real 21 three quarters of the way to Makawao, taking away the 21 problem of that particular principle that we have 22 open space which now exists between Makawao and 22 already stated. The IRC did not recommend this. There 23 Hali'imaile. And that would not be in keeping with our 23 is no community recommendation of developing this site. 24 policies, I believe, by taking away that -- that open 24 We, as it was mentioned already, in this area have a 25 space between communities. 25 surplus of units as recommended by the IRC. 17 (Pages 62 to 65) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 66 Page 68 1 I think, you know, we go against what the work 1 Hali'imaile. 2 has been done by the IRC and we going against our own 2 I have a totally different opinion about 3 principles that we have established in reviewing these 3 what -- the local people that I talked to at the 4 maps. If this is the way we gonna go, it does not make 4 charrettes, they didn't want this overwhelming city next 5 any sense of what -- why create the principles? 5 to them. They liked the community they have. And they 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Anybody else? 6 were sad to see this, the people I talked to and 7 Lesley. 7 listened to. And, of course, at every meeting there are 8 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: Wallette Pellegrino. 8 all views being addressed. 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Mike, please. 9 Also, there's a huge flood problem in this 10 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: Wallette Pellegrino. 10 area and big water comes down this gulch, which I call 11 This is another tough one over here because 11 Pahole (phonetic). I'm not sure what its name is. 12 what we've heard is -- well, what we've seen, first of 12 Thank you. 13 all is, that the IRC proposed just that one section of 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Anybody else? 14 Hali'imaile, and now, today, we come together and we 14 Carl. 15 hear everybody wanting to add on. I understand that 15 MEMBER LINDQUIST: Based on the size, the 16 there was a great deal of community involvement in this, 16 massive size of this expansion, I'll be voting against 17 in the planning of that community, but I am very 17 this motion. 18 concerned, also, along with others, about having this 18 CHAIR CANNON: Jeanne. 19 development come all the way up to and abut Makawao 19 MEMBER SKOG: I actually was born in 20 Town. And I know that the developer has proposed an 20 Hali'imaile. And I grew up there. Because of my 21 agricultural buffer. 21 parents having a lot of ties to that town through Maui 22 Once again, my point is, if this is approved, 22 Land & Pine, I mean, as an employee of Maui Land & Pine. 23 with the addition of this particular section, it is up 23 We just grew up in that neighborhood. And, you know, 24 to the community to be watchful, to be mindful and to 24 we've talked a lot about sense of place, et cetera. 25 make sure that they watch this every step of the way so 25 This is -- it's -- it's given in there. I understand Page 67 Page 69 1 that the developer is held to their promises. Okay? 1 what Stan is saying in terms of principles, et cetera, 2 Thank you. 2 but I think our charge is to look at a balancing of all 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Lesley. 3 of those principles. We didn't end up with just one 4 MEMBER BRUCE: Lesley Bruce, Hana. 4 principle or one policy. We ended up with a multiple 5 Between 1944 and 1994, I lived a couple miles 5 set of principles and policies that have to do with 6 down the road. And I am familiar with this 6 certainly our society, but, also, our environment and 7 neighborhood. Manolo (phonetic) Plantation went in down 7 our economy. So we were charged with looking at the 8 below. And when the State tested their two wells, it 8 full picture of it. 9 was the most polluted water in the State of Hawaii. 9 So I'm in favor of this. I think it is 10 That was a former pineapple field. When I was eight 10 possible to build on the sense of place that is already 11 years old, I was hit by a truck on Baldwin Avenue. The 11 there. We are about doing a boundary, we're not 12 charrette which I attended all of the events for this 12 designing the town. I think it's left to the rest of 13 proposed Hali'imaile suggested there be three roads that 13 the process, that whoever owns land there has to go 14 linked to Baldwin Avenue. And they are not shown on 14 through to come up with something that is acceptable and 15 this map. The Hali'imaile Road is pretty much 15 that has the input of the community as it moves forward. 16 gridlocked couple times a day now. And there is -- the 16 CHAIR CANNON: Point of order, Mr. Chair. 17 former grove ranch lands are already, as I understand 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Go ahead. 18 it, approved to be developed by A&B across from the Hui 18 CHAIR CANNON: We -- there are a number of us 19 No'eau. The existing IRC Rural Growth Boundary that's 19 that have recused ourselves due to conflicts or apparent 20 marked adjacent to old Hali'imaile was on the last 20 conflicts or potential conflicts of interest. You know, 21 Community Plan. I went to all the meetings in Paia, 21 I did on one project, Chubby has, Lesley has, Warren 22 regarding that Community Plan. And the people agreed to 22 Suzuki has. There's only one Member that I know of on 23 have that expansion. I believe the A&B proposed 23 this Committee that's a paid consultant to the Council 24 expansion at all the charrettes is not on this map that 24 and -- I mean, to the Planning Department, a paid 25 we were given today. So I am voting against expanding 25 consultant to the Planning Department that relates to 18 (Pages 66 to 69) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 70 Page 72 1 projects that this GPAC has been dealing with. And 1 This is darn good ag land. And if we're going 2 that's Jeanne. And I'm just wondering why she isn't 2 to protect good ag land -- I grew enough white rose and 3 recusing herself from some of these issues that -- 3 red rose potatoes there years ago to flood the market. 4 MEMBER SUZUKI: Come on, Chair. 4 I also grew lettuce. I grew -- and corn. This is darn 5 CHAIR CANNON: -- relate to Planning 5 good ag land. 6 Department recommendations. 6 And I also went to the charrettes. This 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I think the rule that we 7 wasn't a unanimous thing that was for the -- had the 8 have says that people should recuse themselves if they 8 support of the community. It was a clown show, or it 9 have -- of voting if they have things. And that's 9 was a -- excuse me. I retract that. It was somebody 10 self-enforcing. We don't have a requirement per se. If 10 trying to sell the development of Hali'imaile. And in 11 the person feels that they have a conflict, they must 11 my opinion, this is not a good place to expand the town. 12 recuse themselves. I leave it up to each Member to 12 Either you do it makai or this is above the ditch. 13 decide that. Several people have said that they have. 13 The traffic that goes through what we used to 14 And your point's taken, but I think we'll leave it up to 14 call Polo Field Gulch is terrible now. I know because I 15 the Members to do that. 15 drove it to work every day. And this is, in my opinion 16 Thank you. 16 -- and I was on the IRC. And we did not address it. 17 MEMBER VICENS: Ask for the question. 17 And we said that we wanted to protect the good ag land. 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Warren. 18 So I will not be supporting this. 19 Anybody else? 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I think we've gone through 20 We have one last person. Doug just -- oh, 20 everybody. And I would like to call for the question. 21 Warren Watanabe, anything? Okay. Doug. 21 All in favor of -- all in favor of adding this area to 22 MEMBER VICENS: Warren wants to speak. 22 the boundary, please raise your hands. 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Oh, Warren wants to speak, 23 MEMBER VICENS: What is the question? 24 okay. Please. 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Your motion is to add this 25 MEMBER WATANABE: Warren Watanabe. 25 area to the -- I think Country Town boundary line. In Page 71 Page 73 1 I recognize, you know, we are -- you know, I'm 1 other words, it would be a Rural County Town boundary 2 related to the agricultural industry and we recognize 2 line sort of in this area, this rectangle area above 3 the value of preserving prime agricultural lands, but I 3 Hali'imaile Town here. 4 think when you look at, you know, projects -- and I 4 MEMBER VICENS: As proposed, yeah. 5 think, you know, you haven't established the Hali'imaile 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: As proposed by Maui Pine & 6 area. And I would prefer that you concentrate the 6 Land -- Maui Pine. Okay. 7 developing in that area. It gets worse when you try to 7 All in favor, please raise your hands. Seven. 8 fragment ag lands. Then it all becomes nonviable. 8 All opposed, raise your hands. 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Doug, let me just 9 Abstaining? One. 10 tell you what the motion is because I think -- were you 10 Okay. I will turn the chairmanship back over 11 here? You just came in, Doug, right? The motion is, 11 to the -- 12 right now, to take this area that's on the map that was 12 MEMBER VICENS: What was the count on against? 13 given out to us, above the town, in this area here, to 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: One abstention, seven -- 12 14 put it within a Rural Country Town -- in Rural Country 14 I believe. 15 Town area. Is that the motion, I think? Country Town, 15 MEMBER MOIKEHA: There was more than one 16 right. Doug. 16 abstention. 17 MEMBER MacCLUER: I would like to speak to the 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: What was the count? 18 motion. 18 MEMBER FILIMOE'ATU: Fifteen. It passes. 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Please. 19 MEMBER VICENS: We have 22 people. 20 MEMBER MacCLUER: Having had an office in 20 MR. HUNT: Seven in favor, 12 against, which 21 Hali'imaile for 35 years and having farmed this 21 adds up to 19. You have 22 Members. So you had three. 22 particular parcel for the same amount of time, I'm 22 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I will ask for the vote 23 intimately aware of the parcel and its ag value. If 23 again because we didn't get an accurate count. Please 24 there was to be development in Hali'imaile, I think that 24 raise your hands -- all in favor, please raise your 25 it should be below the current village which is makai. 25 hands. Seven. 19 (Pages 70 to 73) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 74 Page 76 1 MR. HUNT: Seven. 1 there. So I have a -- I have a motion as relates to RR, 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: All opposed, please raise 2 but, you know, it shows up there and not here. So if 3 your hands. Thirteen. 3 it's not on here, I'm going to defer making the motion 4 Abstaining? One. Is there one abstaining? 4 to a later point in time. But I just need some 5 MEMBER VICENS: We have 22 people. 5 clarification as to when would be the most appropriate 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Somebody is not voting. 6 time to make that motion. 7 MEMBER deNAIE: And one recusal. 7 CHAIR CANNON: With regard to Kula 200 RR? 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Warren's recusal. Thank 8 MEMBER SUZUKI: Relative to the issue of the 9 you very much. 9 RR. 10 I turn the chairmanship back over to Tom. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Jeff. 11 CHAIR CANNON: Before you pass the Chair, did 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Could I clarify that? 12 the motion pass? 12 CHAIR CANNON: Jeff. 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The motion did not pass. 13 MR. HUNT: I would suggest that people focus 14 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you. 14 on the maps and refer to those numbers and refer to the 15 Is there any other motion with regard to Map 15 letter and the number, not the earlier number that was 16 N3? 16 scribbled up in the corner. And that's what you folks 17 MEMBER SKOG: Point of order, Mr. Chair. I 17 need to act on. The information up there is -- that's 18 just want to make a point of -- of clarifying your 18 what it is, that's information. We can move it around, 19 erroneous statement. I am not a consultant to the 19 we can manipulate it, et cetera. But your actions 20 Planning Department. 20 should be focused on a motion to do something about a 21 CHAIR CANNON: Jeanne, didn't you do Focus 21 map, N3 or whatever. 22 Maui Nui? Isn't that something -- 22 CHAIR CANNON: Dick, does that take care of 23 MEMBER SKOG: I'm not currently a consultant 23 your comments? 24 to the Planning Department. 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. This is -- this is 25 CHAIR CANNON: Not currently. 25 the whole Island of Maui, just focused in. This map Page 75 Page 77 1 MEMBER SKOG: But that was declared early on. 1 focused in includes areas beyond this Map N3. 2 We helped with community outreach, that's all we did. 2 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair? 3 CHAIR CANNON: I'm not currently a consultant 3 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 4 to Olowalu, and I still recused myself from the vote 4 MEMBER SUZUKI: I have a question in terms of 5 regarding Olowalu. 5 appropriateness on whether or not this action is 6 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Point of order. 6 appropriate at this time or not. Similar to the motion 7 CHAIR CANNON: Anyone else? 7 that was made by Lucienne, where she asked for just a 8 Yes, Warren Suzuki. 8 caveat that Planning Department staff, you know, look at 9 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, I have a question. 9 all those areas that might have been overlooked that 10 I'm looking at the N3 map that we have as Members of 10 might be consistent with the -- the designation on the 11 GPAC. And I'm looking at the map that was projected on 11 -- on the N3 map. I have a similar request as it 12 the wall. And the information on the wall is not 12 relates to the RR, you know, because I raised this 13 consistent with what we have on the map in terms of just 13 concern on Thursday evening relative to some of the 14 the limits of what is on the map. I have a question 14 two-acre lots as shown as RR, other two-acre lots are 15 regards to the Kula 200 RR. You know, on our map, it 15 not shown as RR. So I -- I'm -- I would like to make a 16 doesn't show up. It shows up here. So -- 16 motion to accept the language that the realtors came up 17 CHAIR CANNON: Wait, wait. We're on Map N3 17 with, but I'm concerned as to when would be the 18 now. 18 appropriate time to make that particular motion. 19 MEMBER SUZUKI: That's the question I have. 19 CHAIR CANNON: Dick. 20 CHAIR CANNON: That's not on here, is it? 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. I would suggest that 21 MEMBER SUZUKI: That's my question, Mr. Chair. 21 it's appropriate with -- along with Lucienne's -- and I 22 If you would let me finish, I can clarify. 22 think the broader motion -- you may want to make an 23 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. 23 amendment to hers -- her motion is still on the floor -- 24 MEMBER SUZUKI: Our map here does not show 24 that areas which are incorrectly mapped, whether they be 25 Kula 200 RR. It's shown on the wall, on the projection 25 RR, Urban, any class, that isn't correct should be 20 (Pages 74 to 77) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 78 Page 80 1 pointed out to the staff. We will not be able to go 1 mixed parcel sizes, two-acre lots, five-acre lots, 2 through them today. That they will amend the maps using 2 10-acre lots, 12 and 15-acre lots and determined that 3 their discretion to correct all errors on the map. And 3 given the land use pattern, given the nature of the use, 4 leave it up to them to make that -- including what 4 that some of those areas would better be served with a 5 you're saying. And I agree with you that there are 5 second designation in the Ag District called Community 6 several places, so if you want to make that motion I 6 Agriculture. So we do have a map that identifies those 7 think it's appropriate. 7 areas that are Ag 1, 2 and 3, and a table that describes 8 CHAIR CANNON: Warren Suzuki. 8 that as well which is projected. And you should have it 9 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, I would like to 9 in your packets. 10 make the motion to amend the main motion to reflect, you 10 Regarding technical glitches, there are gonna 11 know, what Dick said from the standpoint of going back 11 be some areas like we discovered last -- at the last 12 and cleaning up the maps to apply consistent criteria to 12 meeting, around Maui Meadows, where you've got these 13 the so-called two-acre lots, or whatever, that fall 13 little slivers and things. We're gonna continue to 14 within the so-called RR growth boundary area. 14 uncover that type of situation over the next 18 months. 15 MEMBER VICENS: Second. 15 It's not gonna just be rural areas. There are going to 16 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 16 be little areas where we've got a regional park or an 17 MEMBER VICENS: Second. 17 open space. There is some areas in Maui Lani that we 18 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Chubby. 18 have concerns about where maybe one of the regional 19 Further discussion? 19 parks crept into a fully entitled area. 20 Lucienne. 20 So staff will be focusing on these kinds of 21 MEMBER deNAIE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 21 detailed items and clean those up over the next 18 22 For those of -- for those who didn't serve on 22 months. And we welcome any of the Members' input as we 23 the IRC, the staff went through a laborious explanation 23 go through that, and the community at large. 24 of how the RR sections that are currently two-acre lots 24 So thank you, Mr. Chairman. 25 were chosen. I think it might be helpful for the 25 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, John. Page 79 Page 81 1 benefit of the entire GPAC Maui Island Plan if that was 1 Question. Will those be handled, then, when 2 explained. It appeared -- and, you know, I am all with 2 the Planning Commission looks at this? 3 Warren, that, you know, we want to have good consistency 3 MR. SUMMERS: That is correct. That will be 4 here and we don't want to like miscategorize anything 4 handled in the departmental draft, they will be handled 5 and so forth and so on. However, it appeared to me, 5 at the Planning Commission level, and, I'm sure we'll 6 from the description that was given by staff, that they 6 get additional items up at Council. So it will occur 7 went through a laborious parcel by parcel effort. And I 7 throughout the remaining process. 8 would just like to hear, you know, what their process 8 CHAIR CANNON: Dick. 9 was so that we could all have that information at our 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I just want to clarify with 10 understanding before we vote here. 10 the Chair. We're still working on Lucienne's original 11 CHAIR CANNON: John. 11 motion. Perhaps I should probably have this since you 12 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 12 gave up the Chair for this overall, to the amendment as 13 Staff did go through an extensive analysis of 13 well as the motion. I just want to -- 14 our rural areas. When we focused on those areas that 14 CHAIR CANNON: That would be fine. 15 would be appropriate for our Rural Residential 15 MEMBER VICENS: Call for the question. 16 designation, we looked at those areas where we had a 16 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Go around. 17 wide swath of land that was in the Ag District that had 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: On the motion now to add 18 primarily been subdivided down to lots of two to three 18 what Warren has suggested, anybody else want to make 19 acres, lots generally less than four acres, which would 19 comments? Okay. No. I'm asking if anybody else does. 20 mean they couldn't be subdivided. And those areas where 20 Nobody else does? No, I'm not gonna call each person. 21 we had that condition and they were adjacent to or 21 Just ask, anybody else, and go around the circle. 22 proximate to an existing Country Town or Urban area. 22 Good, I have a comment. 23 We also analyzed the rural areas in Haiku and 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: This is why we get out of 24 Kula to do an analysis to the extent of diversified 24 control, because we don't follow the same procedure. 25 agriculture in these areas, the extent to which we had 25 I'm sorry. 21 (Pages 78 to 81) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 82 Page 84 1 I have a concern. I understand what Warren 1 confused on this. The other night I voted for the 2 says. And I'm understanding, they seem to be on the 2 amendment that Warren Suzuki made for the Maui Meadows. 3 same page as Lucienne, correcting things, like, for 3 And that was to take some remnant two-acre ag pieces and 4 example, what we saw in Maui Meadows. But I think Dave 4 bring them into the Maui Meadows with the condition that 5 DeLeon's question and testimony raises it a level up. 5 they were not subject to further subdivision. So I 6 Now the criteria stated was if it was close to or 6 supported that. And I don't think that it is clear at 7 abutting a town. That was the Department's criteria for 7 this point that what we're intending to do is include 8 calling out the RR existing. I don't know if -- if that 8 additional two-acre pieces without further entitlements. 9 should be the criteria. I mean, you've got a lot of 9 If we're talking about giving two-acre remnant pieces of 10 existing stuff out here on the Haiku side that why 10 rural status with the ability to further subdivide, I 11 aren't we just calling out what it is? I'm not saying 11 don't support it. If it's what Warren was -- said the 12 they should have opportunity to further subdivide, but I 12 other day, which is to bring it into Rural, without the 13 think it still should come under this motion. And I 13 ability to further subdivide, I support it. 14 don't want to confuse that motion. So if the two people 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Continue around the circle. 15 that are making it agree that that should be included, 15 We're going to let everybody -- go around the circle. 16 then I would ask that you amend that. But I think 16 Anybody else? I'm going to call for the question -- 17 there's another issue here. And I know Dave raised it 17 MEMBER deNAIE: Dick. 18 in his testimony and he did ask that it be looked at in 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I'm sorry. 19 the context of the Community Plans. But if these things 19 MEMBER deNAIE: This is just a point of 20 are rural and they're rural in character, we're not 20 information. 21 saying we're giving them license to continue to 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Lucienne. 22 subdivide, they should be on the map. I don't 22 MEMBER deNAIE: This is just point of 23 understand why they are not. 23 information. I believe I made a motion and it was 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Stan. 24 seconded, and everything else has been an amendment 25 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 25 since. Page 83 Page 85 1 I must be Portuguese, so I don't understand. 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Correct. 2 MEMBER OF PUBLIC: Speak for yourself. 2 MEMBER deNAIE: So this an amendment to the 3 MEMBER FRANCO: No comments from the 3 original motion, like the other ones that have been 4 community. 4 disposed of. 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Stan, please, go ahead. 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: My understanding is, 6 MEMBER FRANCO: I think we have two motions. 6 Lucienne, you made an amendment, we already had a motion 7 I heard the first motion was that we were trying to 7 on the floor, when you made your motion, and that was -- 8 approve this Map N3 and we haven't even taken action on 8 so yours is really an amendment to the approval of. 9 that, that I know of. Did we? 9 MEMBER deNAIE: No. We disposed -- we 10 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: No. 10 disposed of an earlier motion. I made a second motion, 11 MEMBER FRANCO: Then we have now another 11 just to keep it straight, just point of information. 12 motion. So I'm wondering which motion is on the floor 12 And my motion is to accept the map, you know, as it 13 now. Because we started first with the motion to 13 was -- several amendments have been passed that changed 14 approve N3, and there were two amendments that were -- 14 the map. And so the motion now is to, you know, deal 15 that we accepted. Can we vote on that and then go on to 15 with the language that Warren is proposing. 16 the other motion? 16 Would it be helpful for everyone to read that 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: An amendment on an 17 language before we vote on it? We have it written. I 18 amendment on a motion. And right now, we're voting on 18 just think that we should hear it out loud because I 19 Warren's amendment to Lucienne's amendment to the basic 19 think John's concern is true. In the areas that we are 20 motion for N3. Okay? 20 looking to consolidate as Rural areas, we are specifying 21 Any other comments? Go around the table. 21 that there they're gonna remain at the same lot level. 22 Anybody else? 22 I did not get the impression from the statement that 23 John. 23 Dave DeLeon submitted that was part of the discussion 24 MEMBER deNAIE: Point of information. 24 process, it was just that more -- more work had to be 25 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: I'm -- I'm a little 25 done on it beyond what we're doing here. That was my 22 (Pages 82 to 85) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 86 Page 88 1 understanding of it. But, you know, Warren may have 1 next door to it there is maybe a 10-acre lot, and next 2 more -- a clearer view. 2 door to that a 12-acre lot, and then a five-acre and a 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: As Chair, let me try to get 3 couple of two acres, it's -- it's problematic from just 4 myself straight here. I thought we had a motion to 4 a land use planning perspective. 5 approve N3 originally. Was that disposed of? 5 I think the bigger question is whether we want 6 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 6 to take these -- these areas that are delineated here as 7 MEMBER SKOG: No, that's Lucienne's. 7 Ag 2, which are areas that have been fractured into 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: But with the -- your motion 8 smaller lots, and whether these areas should be 9 also was to correct? 9 designated into a Rural category or remain in an 10 MEMBER deNAIE: And I added that to the 10 agricultural category. There are a number of 11 motion. 11 implications either way. But to have that debate, I 12 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Added to that, okay. I'm 12 think it should occur within the context of this map, 13 sorry. Thank you. Okay. 13 and that we would have appropriate analysis for that to 14 Anybody else, going around the circle? Okay. 14 occur. The staff feels -- 15 Warren, did you already -- 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Can you speak directly to 16 MEMBER SUZUKI: Point of information, 16 the motion itself? 17 Mr. Chair. 17 MR. SUMMERS: Sure. 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yes. 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: About correcting the 19 MEMBER SUZUKI: To respond to the concern 19 potential RR ag -- the potential agricultural two-acre 20 raised by John Blumer-Buell, the intent is to -- when 20 subdivisions -- we have several on the island -- and 21 you include those areas within the RR boundary area, the 21 whether they should be all within the RR. Just that 22 intent is that it could not be further subdivided, that 22 part of it. 23 you are limited to the parcel, the size that it is right 23 MR. SUMMERS: Right. Staff has concerns about 24 now. 24 that. There will be some technical areas. The original 25 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Also, my understanding from 25 motion that was made was to correct some of these Page 87 Page 89 1 the IRC discussions is that just because something is 1 technical areas like Maui Meadows, the sliver there, 2 being put into Rural Residential, many of these two-acre 2 which is fine, but this larger policy debate about 3 ag lots, that no way means that they could be 3 moving all these two-acre lots to a Rural Residential 4 subdivided. These are just two-acre ag lots, but in an 4 category, staff would be troubled by that. And I think 5 area called Rural Residential. That's not rezoning. 5 you would understand that once we zoom into these areas. 6 That does not give any rights to rezoning per se. That 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Thank you. 7 was my understanding of it. 7 Okay. Let's call for the question. Warren's 8 John. 8 motion is to take these Rural Residential -- these 9 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 9 two-acre lots around the island and correct all into RR, 10 The Members should have a map in their packet 10 Rural Residential. 11 that delineates the location of these Ag 1, 2 and 3 11 Is that correct, Warren? 12 areas. And staff just has a concern that if we're gonna 12 Without further debate on individual parcels, 13 debate this particular policy, which will have 13 but recommended to the staff to do that. All in favor, 14 widespread policy implications -- we're talking about 14 please raise your hands, without further subdividing. 15 probably on the magnitude of 15,000 to 20,000 acres 15 Eleven. 16 throughout Haiku and Upcountry that have been subdivided 16 All opposed? Six opposed. 17 down into smaller lots of less than, say, 25 acres -- 17 Abstaining? One, two, three, four. 18 that that broader debate maybe occur when we talk about 18 Does that add up? 19 this map. 19 MEMBER VICENS: We have 23 people now, sir. 20 And the reason I say that is if you zoom in 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: What do we get? 21 and you start looking at the land use pattern in these 21 MEMBER VICENS: Joe came in. We have 23. 22 areas, there's a mixture of two-acre lots, four-acre 22 MR. HUNT: The vote was 11 to six. That 23 lots, five-acre lots, eight-acre lots, 10-acre lots. 23 equals 17. You have 23 people. Any abstention is a yes 24 And to individually go around each lot and draw, say, a 24 vote. So the vote turns into 17 to six. The motion 25 little Rural Residential Growth Boundary, when right 25 passes. 23 (Pages 86 to 89) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 90 Page 92 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Motion passes. 1 classification for certain areas to be set aside on the 2 Now on to the main motion that Lucienne 2 maps for -- as being Rural Residential, but not with any 3 offered. Lucienne, could you state it please? 3 further rights at all to be subdivided. I would like to 4 MEMBER deNAIE: The motion is to accept Map 3 4 make that as a policy. 5 as a map -- excuse me -- N3 as we have it before us, not 5 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? John 6 as projected on the screen, but as we have it before us, 6 Blumer-Buell. 7 with the amendments that have already been disposed of, 7 Further discussion? 8 and pass it out of our Committee. 8 Warren Suzuki. 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: We've gone around once 9 MEMBER SUZUKI: I don't really have any 10 already, I think, on this point. I would like to call 10 concern with the motion that's made, just as long as 11 for the question. 11 everyone understands, too, that it doesn't give you any 12 All in favor, please raise your hands. 12 further rights as far as subdivision, but, at the same 13 CHAIR CANNON: This is the original motion, 13 time, it doesn't take away any rights that you might 14 correct? 14 have right now for subdivision. So it doesn't give you 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The original motion. 15 more or take away anything. 16 Please keep your hands up if you're in favor. 23. 16 MEMBER VICENS: Is that true? 17 MR. HUNT: 22. 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I would like to have staff 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: All opposed? No one. 18 try to explain to me during the break. I just wanted to 19 Abstaining? One abstention. 19 make sure it's clear. 20 MEMBER MOIKEHA: That means we have 24 people. 20 CHAIR CANNON: John. 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Turn it back over to the 21 MR. SUMMERS: That's clear. If these are lots 22 Chair. 22 coming from the Ag District, most of them will be two 23 CHAIR CANNON: To clarify, that vote was 22 23 acres that we're dealing with. So we understand. 24 with one abstention. 22 for, with one abstention, 24 Thank you for the clarification. 25 correct? So total of 23 people here. 25 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? Page 91 Page 93 1 Jeff. 1 (Silence.) 2 MR. HUNT: Just to help us count the votes, 2 CHAIR CANNON: What if a lot was, say, four 3 it's difficult to see hands when they're down like this, 3 acres and it was in RR? 4 or you're eating. You know, I know it's a long day, but 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: My understanding is it 5 hands above the head and hold 'em up. I know it's 5 would be allowed to subdivide into Ag lots. 6 tough, but -- 6 CHAIR CANNON: So we're talking Rural 2. 7 CHAIR CANNON: Dick, what was the next map 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: No. Well, either Rural 2 8 we're looking at? 8 or two Ag lots -- two-acre lots. 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: U1. 9 MR. SUMMERS: It was our understanding we were 10 CHAIR CANNON: We're on U1 now. 10 talking about all of the two-acre lots. And there are 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The stenographer may need a 11 some lots that are actually smaller than two acres. 12 break. 12 CHAIR CANNON: Uh-huh. Thanks for clarifying. 13 MEMBER VICENS: Lunch. 13 John. 14 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. 10-minute recess. 14 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: During our last jaunt 15 (Recess, 12:16 p.m. to 12:37 p.m.) 15 from Hana, during our discussion of this issue 16 CHAIR CANNON: I call the meeting to order. 16 previously, John Summers said "staff has concerns about 17 And, Dick, we are on Map U1, is that correct? 17 that." And I voted against it because of the concerns 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I'd like to make a motion 18 you had. I would like to know what concerns you have. 19 before that, something the staff alerted me to. And 19 What is going down a slippery slope with this or what 20 there was some confusion over that RR, what it means. 20 are your concerns? 21 And we had said what it means, but we didn't have it in 21 Thanks. 22 a policy. So I want to make sure it's clarified in 22 CHAIR CANNON: John. 23 policy that RR -- I'm gonna make a motion to that 23 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 24 effect -- does not mean you can subdivide, gives you no 24 If you go into most of these areas, in Haiku 25 rights per se to subdivide. And that should be a 25 and Upper Kula, again we have a -- we have sort of a 24 (Pages 90 to 93) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 94 Page 96 1 quilt of smaller ag lots, midsize ag lots, five to, say, 1 end of Kula. 2 15 acres, and some larger ag lots. And to go in 2 CHAIR CANNON: Jeanne. 3 surgically and provide Rural zoning, in this case it 3 MEMBER SKOG: Point of order. I think -- to 4 would be a Rural Residential Growth Boundary, but, in 4 avoid a messy situation, I think it would be helpful if 5 the future, it might be Rural zoning, that would create 5 you were to determine, Chair, as we go map to map, 6 a situation where we have spot zoning all over the place 6 whether you're going to be speaking on that map or not 7 in these agricultural areas. And we are also 7 ahead of our discussion so that we can transfer the 8 introducing perhaps conflict with a lot of diversified 8 Chair role for that map. So if you could declare it 9 agriculture that exists in these areas. So it's -- it's 9 ahead of time. 10 a very complex debate, something that certainly is 10 CHAIR CANNON: I may not know ahead of time. 11 worthy of debate. But to just kind of quickly go in and 11 Hans. 12 make that kind of decision, I think it just leads to a 12 MEMBER MICHEL: Can you catch the light, 13 lot of uncertainties. 13 please, for we can see the map? 14 We'll do additional research and see if 14 CHAIR CANNON: Sure. 15 there's a way we can map some of those small ag lots in 15 MEMBER MICHEL: Thank you. 16 the way that doesn't perhaps threaten some of the larger 16 CHAIR CANNON: Warren, did you have something, 17 lots. But, again, it's a complex exercise. 17 Warren Shibuya? 18 Staff thought we could achieve sort of a 18 MEMBER SHIBUYA: No, no. 19 win-win with this Ag 2 category which would allow for 19 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Lucienne. 20 small-scale diversified agricultural operations, 20 MEMBER deNAIE: To open the discussion, I 21 conservation subdivision design and other land use 21 would like to move that we accept the Urban and -- or 22 management tools to protect the agriculture that's 22 the Urban and, I guess, it's Rural designations on Map 23 occurring in the area, set aside lands for future 23 U1 as we have it before us in the printed maps. 24 agriculture, and allow good site planning to protect the 24 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 25 residential uses in the area. 25 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Second. Page 95 Page 97 1 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion of the motion? 1 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by John Blumer-Buell. 2 Stan. 2 Further discussion? 3 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 3 Warren Shibuya. 4 I'm a little bit concerned that we are going 4 MEMBER SHIBUYA: I would like to make an 5 down this road because the maps are what we need to work 5 amendment to include a Rural Service Center at the 6 on. And it is already quarter to one. And I told my 6 bottom of that where the Lower Kula Road and the Kula 7 family I might be home by midnight. So if we don't get 7 Highway actually parallel each other. It's on the lower 8 to the maps -- this is the primary thing. And all the 8 end. And that's where we have the Kula Hardware, we 9 other stuff that has to be adjusted, you know, there are 9 have the real estate office, restaurant, and a vehicle 10 going to be opportunities to adjust it both at the 10 repair shop there. 11 Planning Commission and at the Council level. So I'm 11 CHAIR CANNON: Dick. 12 concerned we are not getting to the maps. 12 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. Actually, that's on 13 CHAIR CANNON: Discussion of the motion? 13 the next map. It's just at the very bottom of that map. 14 (Silence.) 14 It's, actually, on the U2 map. So I think we should 15 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor, indicate by 15 wait. The motion is in order, but I think it should be 16 raising your hand. Could you raise your hand higher, 16 put -- in the order for U2 map, not for U1. 17 please? People doing the counting, please stand up. 17 CHAIR CANNON: Joe. 18 Eighteen. 18 MEMBER BERTRAM: Yes. I'm also wondering 19 All opposed? Two opposed. 19 where Kulamalu project is in this, why it's not 20 All abstentions? Three abstentions. 20 included. 21 Does that add up? 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: It is. 22 So the motion carries. 22 MEMBER BERTRAM: Is it? Is it the one below 23 Dick. 23 Kula 200? 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The next area would be Map 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yes. This area. 25 Number U2 -- U1. U1. You have Pukalani and the north 25 MEMBER BERTRAM: Okay. 25 (Pages 94 to 97) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 98 Page 100 1 CHAIR CANNON: Anyone else on this side that 1 both the IRC and other discussion, this concern about 2 wants to speak on the motion? Any on this side? All 2 turning that whole triangle into urban. I was just 3 those in -- John. 3 talking about -- I think the recommendation was like 200 4 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: I have a point of order. 4 feet in from Makawao Avenue. 5 I'm curious if the proposed Kula Ridge project is on Map 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I would like to speak 6 U1 or if that's U2? 6 against the motion. I think this whole triangle should 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: U2. 7 remain as an open space area. There's -- there is the 8 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Thank you. 8 small old village here that's being preserved here. And 9 CHAIR CANNON: Are you speaking to the motion, 9 this street, between the -- between the Superette here 10 Jeanne? 10 and across the street is very narrow and congested. And 11 MEMBER SKOG: This is to accept that, the map, 11 we have had very, very long discussions, when the 12 right? 12 Upcountry plan that was put together, to make a choice 13 CHAIR CANNON: That's what we are talking 13 whether the commercial area in this should be at this 14 about, yeah. 14 triangle which was proposed at that time by Maui Pine or 15 MEMBER SKOG: Yeah. I wanted to propose an 15 right here where now you have Longs located right here 16 amendment or make a motion for an amendment to add, I 16 and a growing shopping center here. And the decision 17 think, the advice from Wailuku Main Street was 200 feet, 17 was made to put the shopping area in this area here 18 but where the Pukalani Superette is -- that's on this 18 where there's parking for the traffic and better site 19 map, right? 19 for it. And so that decision was made at that time. 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. 20 This would add another commercial area very close by to 21 MEMBER SKOG: So on the opposite side, so add 21 it. And then there is the super -- the Foodland 22 enough so that there could be -- to add that into the 22 shopping center located about where this would be about 23 Urban Growth Boundary so that there could be the 23 here. 24 possibility of more commercial activity across the 24 So I would speak against this. And leave this 25 street. Because that -- that already is a gathering 25 as a green space between the high school and the area Page 99 Page 101 1 place. There's the bank there, there's some doctors' 1 down below down here, Pukalani. And there are real 2 offices, there's like a little mini place with pharmacy 2 concerns about that area being developed and urbanized 3 and stuff in it. I think there's a cultural piece. 3 by the Upcountry community, I think. 4 There was some cultural piece at the edge, yeah. But it 4 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion of the 5 just seems like if we're creating neighborhoods in sense 5 amendment? 6 of places and all of that, that it made sense to carry 6 Okay. I'm starting with Dick and I'm moving 7 it across the street. 7 around this way. 8 CHAIR CANNON: So that's a motion to amend? 8 MEMBER BERTRAM: Oh, Susan. 9 MEMBER SKOG: Yes. 9 MEMBER MOIKEHA: You're going that way. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 10 CHAIR CANNON: I will come back to you. 11 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chair? 11 MEMBER MOIKEHA: That's fine. 12 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Joe. 12 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 13 Yes, who said Chair? 13 MEMBER deNAIE: So I am trying to figure out, 14 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I did. I was going to second 14 so 210 feet stripped, do we know exactly how many acres 15 it, but that's fine. 15 that would be? I mean, I -- I can understand why, you 16 CHAIR CANNON: Oh, okay. Seconded by Joe. 16 know, it makes sense to sort of see small businesses on 17 Further discussion on the amendment? 17 both sides of the street, but if you've ever tried to 18 Yes, Dick. 18 back out of the Pukalani Superette or even pull out of 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Thank you. 19 the Pukalani Superette, you know, there is a lot of 20 What we're talking about is that triangle 20 traffic on that street now. Now, whether having -- you 21 piece of land, just for clarification, or are you only 21 know, whether having that as a future expansion is going 22 talking about a small strip right across the street from 22 to make sense in terms of, you know, where that traffic 23 it? 23 goes, I have some doubts. 24 MEMBER SKOG: No. I'm not talking about 24 I also sat through the Upcountry Community 25 putting the whole triangle, because I understand from 25 Plan meeting where that particular triangle as a whole 26 (Pages 98 to 101) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 102 Page 104 1 was hotly, hotly debated. And that was, you know, part 1 we went around the community and talked to 'em. And 2 of the reason, is just the -- the already crowded nature 2 certainly the last time that Dick was part of the 3 of Makawao Avenue in that particular region. So I think 3 planning process, he and Elmer and that group supported 4 it would be helpful to know what the amount of acreage 4 Kulamalu and didn't support the Pukalani Triangle, which 5 that might be considered for me to know, you know, how I 5 is what this is. But that is a very slow road. There's 6 would want to vote it up or down. And I'm glad that, 6 an intersection right there. And I would support adding 7 you know, Corn Mill Camp is not in the discussion. I 7 200 feet to commercial along the road because it makes 8 think that is a great preserve area. 8 sense. 9 But as I recall during the Community Plan, 9 Kulamalu, which I drive probably by that 10 just for edification of those who might not have been 10 stoplight twice a day or three times a day, is the pits 11 involved, this was seen as an area possibly in future 11 in the morning when Kamehameha Schools and Kekaulike 12 for some sort of a, you know, quasi-public sort of 12 Schools are in session. You can't go to the Longs Drugs 13 function. And, you know, the -- the idea that it would 13 without standing in -- or being clogged up in the line. 14 be kept something that could be used for something that 14 So I support this. 15 was useful for community purpose. So it might be good 15 CHAIR CANNON: Warren Suzuki. 16 to just, you know, let the next -- next round of 16 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, I, too, also 17 planning debate that. 17 support what is being proposed here. Dick did share a 18 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Moving around this way 18 comment about the community, you know, being in 19 from Lucienne. Any others want to speak? 19 opposition to development of Pukalani Triangle. I don't 20 Joe. 20 necessarily agree that's the situation. I think the 21 MEMBER BERTRAM: I'm supportive of this 21 community had concerns that if the entire Pukalani 22 because one thing that Pukalani lacks is downtown. I 22 Triangle parcel was developed, it would create an 23 understand the idea of, you know, shopping areas, we 23 opportunity for another market, like a Star or a 24 have a Pukalani Terrace Center, we have now a Kulamalu, 24 Foodland, or even a Safeway, to come in, which would 25 which has better design to it, but it's still basically 25 provide huge competition to Pukalani Superette and, Page 103 Page 105 1 a shopping center. What -- if you can think of Makawao, 1 thereby, leading to the demise. But at the same time 2 people are backing out into Makawao Avenue, it's a slow 2 they recognized that, you know, some commercial would be 3 area, it is congested, but that adds to it. That's what 3 good. But, basically, it was a choice of the whole 4 kind of creates the traffic to slow down. That's why 4 triangle area or not, and what sort of potential threat 5 people feel safer and it creates that whole idea of a 5 it might have to Pukalani Superette. If you provide a 6 downtown area. Pukalani has lacked that, basically, its 6 200-foot strip parallel to Makawao Avenue, providing for 7 existence by creating this strip along here or even just 7 commercial space, but not providing enough space for 8 looking at this triangle. What it does is it allows 8 grocery store supermarket that could provide competition 9 for -- finally, for Pukalani to get a real downtown. 9 to Superette that might lead to their demise. 10 And I think that's what we're trying to accomplish here. 10 Thank you. 11 So we got to take our minds out of the old 11 CHAIR CANNON: Others, coming this way. 12 style of thinking a shopping area, but, rather, a 12 Jeanne. Jeanne, does that orange area depict 13 downtown. So I didn't know this was an amendment just 13 what you were talking about? 14 to put in a strip. I think that whole triangle could be 14 MEMBER SKOG: No. I was -- that's the only 15 looked at more comprehensively looking at a strip there 15 reason I was going to talk. I meant it to go from -- 16 but, also, housing that would be part of it, just like a 16 not Haleakala -- 17 regular town with, most likely, housing above the stores 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Old Haleakala. 18 and so on and so forth. But that's why I'm supportive 18 MEMBER SKOG: Old Haleakala. Thank you. All 19 of this. Pukalani needs a character and it needs a 19 the way to that cultural -- yeah. Top -- yeah. There. 20 community. And a downtown is what provides that. 20 Because it's commercial all along there on the other 21 CHAIR CANNON: Others, coming this way? 21 side. So I just wanted to clarify that. 22 Doug. 22 CHAIR CANNON: Is that -- Mark, is that 210 23 MEMBER MacCLUER: I support Jeanne's 23 feet there, that width? 24 amendment. And that's because the Pukalani Superette 24 Others around this way? 25 people desire to have more parking. Or the community -- 25 Lesley. 27 (Pages 102 to 105) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 106 Page 108 1 MEMBER BRUCE: Lesley Bruce from Hana. 1 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor, indicate by 2 What I'm hearing from my mother -- I shop at 2 raising your hand. 22 in favor. 3 that corner, I call it Kanseki's Corner, frequently. 3 All opposed? Zero. The motion carries. 4 And I have been asking the people who are at the cash 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Abstentions? 5 register about this situation across the street. 5 CHAIR CANNON: On U2 -- 6 Actually, what they want is pineapple. And I have 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Abstentions? 7 explained to them it's highly unlikely they will ever 7 CHAIR CANNON: Abstentions. Any abstentions? 8 get pineapple again. But they -- the ones that I have 8 One. One abstention. 9 spoken to don't want the competition. I can understand 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Map of U2 now. This is 10 that because when you come along there, Makawao Avenue 10 where Warren's motion about the Superette -- the Kula 11 is pretty much gridlocked, block-out, and you are very, 11 Hardware probably is appropriate. 12 very endangered by too many cars without an adequate 12 CHAIR CANNON: Can you point to where that is, 13 infrastructure for a highway there. And I think adding 13 Dick? Do you know where that is? Oh, we are not on 14 more people there would kill people in the Superette 14 that map. Mark has to bring it up. 15 with competition and add to the congestion, which is 15 MEMBER SHIBUYA: I would like to move that we 16 already gross. 16 accept this map at U2 with the following changes: That 17 Thank you. 17 would be -- 18 CHAIR CANNON: Stan. 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: It's 1, U1. 19 Susan. 19 CHAIR CANNON: U2. 20 Okay. Ready for the question? All those in 20 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Kula, U2. And with the 21 favor, indicate by raising your hand. Sixteen in favor. 21 amendments or the changes to designate the Rural Service 22 Opposed? Five -- six opposed. 22 Center at the Kula Hardware and to include, also, the 23 So the motion carries. 23 vehicle repair shop as well as the restaurant and 24 Mark needs clarification on -- I think you've 24 realtor shop there. And, also, along around the post 25 got it there. Is that 200 feet wide, that long 25 office, the Kula post office area, I would like to Page 107 Page 109 1 rectangle? 1 designate that as -- since I had a question in terms of 2 MR. KING: No. 2 Rural Service Center would include light industrial type 3 CHAIR CANNON: Here you go. 3 of operation, staff would you be able to verify that? 4 MR. KING: Aloha. Mark King, Planning 4 CHAIR CANNON: John. 5 Department staff. 5 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Because I would like to put 6 The area directly across from the Superette is 6 light industrial right around where the post office is, 7 200 feet deep, if that was what I was trying to 7 too. 8 interpret from what you were saying. 8 CHAIR CANNON: John. 9 CHAIR CANNON: That's correct. 9 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 10 MR. KING: This length is 800 feet long. 10 Yes, it could. Yes. 11 MEMBER SUZUKI: That's fine. 11 MEMBER SHIBUYA: So, therefore, then, I would 12 CHAIR CANNON: That's it. Can you just -- is 12 be adding that as a Rural Service Center around where 13 it easy to tell us how many acres that is? 13 the post office is. And the reason for that is that you 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Four acres. 14 have heavy equipment, farm equipment, welding and engine 15 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. On to the Map U1 which 15 repair that is actually done someplace. It has to be 16 is the one we were on here. I don't believe that motion 16 done someplace. And it's not done in the fields. 17 was for the whole map, right? We are still dealing with 17 Fields have to be productive. So this would be a good 18 this map. Do I hear a motion or -- 18 location for that. 19 MEMBER deNAIE: I already moved. 19 Thank you. 20 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Thank you. 20 CHAIR CANNON: Is that kind of L-looking area 21 MEMBER deNAIE: It was seconded. 21 there -- 22 CHAIR CANNON: So that was an amendment. 22 MEMBER VICENS: Yes. 23 Okay. So now we're back to the original motion. Any 23 CHAIR CANNON: -- that seems to be contiguous 24 other discussion? 24 with the Waiakoa Rural Service Center? Can they just be 25 (Silence.) 25 combined into one? 28 (Pages 106 to 109) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 110 Page 112 1 MEMBER deNAIE: Second. 1 replace the post office. 2 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Lucienne. 2 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. More comments? 3 Further discussion on the motion? 3 Joe. 4 Hans. 4 MEMBER BERTRAM: I support this. I just 5 MEMBER MICHEL: The area Warren was speaking 5 wanted -- and I talked a little bit with Warren about 6 of, what is the acreage so we no make it too small, they 6 it, if there could be a slight increase in the service 7 won't be able to park their tractors. You need room for 7 center that he's proposing around Ace Hardware. Just a 8 load to turn around and so forth. Otherwise, you in 8 sense of rather than just accommodating the businesses 9 trouble. 9 that are there, to accommodate a slight expansion in 10 CHAIR CANNON: Is it possible to get the 10 that area, so it, too, can become a real town. Because, 11 acreage of that area, Mark? That L, that little 11 right now, there's just a few businesses kind of 12 L-shaped area there? 12 scattered right in the area of Kula Ace Hardware. So it 13 MR. KING: No. 13 would be nice if we could get a few more in there to 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Could you enlarge that 14 actually create -- to create a town. And he seemed to 15 area? Could you enlarge that area? 15 be amenable to that. So I'm not sure what the acreage 16 CHAIR CANNON: That's difficult. 16 was. 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Excuse me. I think there 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's this area here. 18 is an error here. Could I try to clarify? 18 MEMBER BERTRAM: Right. 19 This is the post office, I think, here, this 19 CHAIR CANNON: You want to increase that, but 20 area here, outside the area. This is the separate piece 20 you don't know how much? 21 of parcel that is on the Community Plan map for light 21 MEMBER BERTRAM: Right. Maybe just -- he had 22 industrial for agricultural purposes. So it already 22 just mentioned just existing. Maybe if we could just 23 meets the, I think, needs that Warren was trying to -- 23 add in, you know -- I don't know if we could put it on 24 that's this area -- that's this area here that's light 24 the map. But I will leave it to -- there is somebody 25 industrial for -- meant for light industrial for 25 else who has his hand up. Page 111 Page 113 1 agriculture. Just exactly what Warren was talking 1 CHAIR CANNON: Is anyone else coming this way 2 about. The post office is located there right next to 2 from Joe? 3 it as a public/quasi-public area right there. 3 Doug. 4 CHAIR CANNON: So is your motion, Warren, to 4 MEMBER MacCLUER: Right above the gas station 5 include the post office in the -- 5 and garage is an old church, very old church. And that 6 MEMBER SHIBUYA: We could. I thought that was 6 area should be incorporated, also. 7 public/quasi as well. If you bring out the Community 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: As cultural? 8 Plan, the Kula Community Plan -- 8 MEMBER MacCLUER: It should be designated 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is -- 9 somehow, whatever. 10 MEMBER SHIBUYA: That would be better. 10 MEMBER BERTRAM: The strip just like we did, 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is the agricultural, 11 200 feet. 12 light industrial zone here, meant for feed stores, you 12 MEMBER MacCLUER: It should be part of the 13 know, equipment repair, agricultural type light 13 parcel. 14 industrial. That's what this is for. But there was a 14 CHAIR CANNON: Part of the Rural Service 15 greenbelt put along the highway intentionally just to 15 Center? 16 separate it slightly from the highway. The post office 16 MEMBER MacCLUER: Sure. Yes. 17 is located here. Whether it's included with this one or 17 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. That would be an 18 not, it could -- the -- an area could be put around the 18 amendment, I guess, to -- to -- 19 post office. I don't think we need to put that. 19 MEMBER MacCLUER: That would be a friendly 20 CHAIR CANNON: So it was your intent to 20 amendment, warren? 21 include the post office in the -- in your motion? 21 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Sure. 22 MEMBER SHIBUYA: No. 22 CHAIR CANNON: Warren is friendly. 23 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Further discussion? 23 Is that okay with you, Lucienne, as the 24 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Could, if you wanted to. But 24 seconder? 25 there is no intention, because nobody is going to 25 MEMBER deNAIE: Uh-huh. 29 (Pages 110 to 113) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 114 Page 116 1 CHAIR CANNON: Okay with everyone else? Is 1 MEMBER SHIBUYA: That's correct. That's about 2 there any dissent? 2 right. Because if we continue as Joe is mentioning 3 MEMBER BERTRAM: No dissent, but -- 3 here, those are -- they have two residences there. 4 CHAIR CANNON: Seeing none -- oh, yes. Mark 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I don't think we have time 5 has a question. 5 to go -- describe -- you want to include the church, the 6 Mark. 6 church property? 7 MR. KING: Mark King, Planning Department 7 MEMBER SHIBUYA: The church as well as the 8 staff. 8 repair -- 9 The minutes won't reflect polygons that we're 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: And the vehicle -- and the 10 looking at visually. So to reread the minutes doesn't 10 boundary lines around this area here? 11 help me. We need to very clearly on the record say 11 MEMBER SHIBUYA: That is correct. That's good 12 where I'm drawing the square or the circle so that I do 12 enough. 13 it exactly the way you guys want. Because I guarantee 13 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. 14 you after I take my month vacation in March, I try and 14 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Thank you. 15 come back in April and draw some of these things, 15 CHAIR CANNON: Further discussion, moving this 16 reading the minutes isn't going to help me draw these 16 way? 17 polygons. 17 Jeanne. 18 Thank you. 18 MEMBER SKOG: I had a question and then a 19 CHAIR CANNON: Warren, can you describe in 19 comment. At the bottom of that, where there are 20 words the area you're trying to include? 20 residences, if we put that in an urban area, how does it 21 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Go ahead, Dick. 21 affect that -- those residences? 22 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is the hardware store, 22 CHAIR CANNON: John. 23 gas station here, this is the car repair place. The 23 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 24 church that was just talked about is, I think, in here, 24 It wouldn't affect the residences. And this 25 in this area here. It's -- and I don't know what the 25 would be a Rural Service Center, an expansion of that, Page 115 Page 117 1 boundary lines on that property would be. It wouldn't 1 that's right there on the other side of the road. 2 -- it does not go up that high in here. These are 2 MEMBER SKOG: And where is the restaurant? 3 residential houses here that I don't think you probably 3 Where is the restaurant? Right there. I am just -- 4 want to put into a service center. But that -- 4 MR. SUMMERS: Looking at this area here. 5 CHAIR CANNON: Does that look like it? 5 MEMBER SKOG: I will leave it up to Warren, 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is probably excessive 6 but I would be advocating for just going ahead and 7 here. This is excessive up here. That doesn't need to 7 including those residences. I mean, if it doesn't 8 be there. Follow the church boundary line is fine. 8 affect them, it actually gives them a little more 9 That would be, more or less, in this area here and 9 opportunities, if they ever wanted to do something else. 10 following the church boundary line and include the gas 10 The other -- the other thing was on the post 11 -- the car repair place, the gas station here and the 11 office, I wasn't clear on why Warren wouldn't put that 12 French restaurant here. Maybe I'll get a free meal out 12 into the Rural boundary. I'm just thinking that -- I 13 of that advertisement. 13 think post offices are subject to County rules and regs 14 CHAIR CANNON: Does that look right now? 14 and procedures just like anybody else. And if they are, 15 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Can you go a little bit 15 does it ease -- if the post office ever wanted to do 16 above? Let's say where the motor vehicle repair area -- 16 something else, does it make it easier for them to do it 17 just go up a little bit more. 17 if you put it into the Rural versus Ag? 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: You mean there? 18 CHAIR CANNON: John, does it make it easier 19 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Right there. That's correct, 19 for the post office to have any changes if they're 20 Dick. Up some more. Yeah. 20 within the boundaries? 21 CHAIR CANNON: How is that? 21 MEMBER SKOG: Because, right now, they're not 22 MEMBER SHIBUYA: That there is residential 22 -- they're not in the Rural, right? 23 highway. There's two more houses there. 23 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, it does make it easier. 24 CHAIR CANNON: How is that? Warren, does that 24 MEMBER SKOG: So, Warren, that would be two 25 look all right? 25 questions. Would it include the bottom there, to, you 30 (Pages 114 to 117) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 118 Page 120 1 know, those residences within the Rural Service Center 1 Rural Service Boundary, but it would be the -- the -- it 2 area? And then the other question would be whether to 2 would remain Public/Quasi-Public. 3 include the post office because if anything ever happens 3 MEMBER SKOG: Mr. Chair? 4 to the post office, that it might be easier for the post 4 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Jeanne. 5 office. 5 MEMBER SKOG: Just going off what Lucienne 6 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Thank you, Jeanne. I think 6 said, and to make things cleaner, what I'm making is a 7 your suggestions are valid. And they're good. And I 7 motion to amend Warren's motion and it's to add the post 8 accept them both. 8 office area into the -- into the boundary and to add 9 CHAIR CANNON: So that would -- is that okay 9 that portion into the Rural Service Center area. So 10 with you, Lucienne? 10 that's my motion. 11 MEMBER deNAIE: Yeah. But we -- we have 11 MEMBER SHIBUYA: I second it. 12 determined that you just vote these up and down, it's 12 CHAIR CANNON: And Warren seconds it, Warren 13 not like you agree with it or don't agree with it, the 13 Shibuya. 14 mover and seconder. I mean, I'm fine with it, but I 14 Further discussion? This is on the amendment 15 think we should just follow that procedure. 15 that we're gonna add these two areas as shown. 16 CHAIR CANNON: Is everyone else okay with 16 Hans. 17 those changes that were just mentioned, including those 17 MEMBER MICHEL: It looks good to me, 18 residences in the Rural area? 18 especially the Kula Hardware Store. My question is, how 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I think we should get it on 19 many residential house lots we got that pay more 20 the map more accurately -- if you can come out 20 property tax when the zoning change to higher type of 21 slightly -- how far those residences go down to the 21 business, the people pay more property tax. We should 22 intersection. Okay. That's good. That would be down 22 ask the people are you willing to go that route, because 23 to this point here, that whole -- 23 we don't. So why should we put something which they 24 MEMBER SUZUKI: Not there. 24 don't want to pay for it afterwards? 25 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's all the residences 25 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. Anyone else, comments? Page 119 Page 121 1 that go down to that corner. 1 Lucienne. 2 CHAIR CANNON: Those residences are also a 2 MEMBER deNAIE: I was just going to ask staff 3 buffer, too, in a sense. Is that what you intend? 3 to respond to that. My friends rent a house right next 4 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Yes. 4 door to that, so I don't want her rent to go up. 5 CHAIR CANNON: Is that okay with you, 5 CHAIR CANNON: Jeff. 6 Lucienne, and the rest of you? Any problems with that? 6 MR. HUNT: It could go up. The other factor 7 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Then draw the post office 7 is with the Rural Center zoning, they could change their 8 area, too. 8 use of industrial or commercial use. 9 CHAIR CANNON: And the post office across the 9 CHAIR CANNON: So others? Other comments? 10 street. 10 MR. HUNT: I have another comment. I'm sorry. 11 MEMBER SHIBUYA: No. That's up the street. 11 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Jeff. 12 CHAIR CANNON: I think there's buildings just 12 MR. HUNT: In drawing these lines, the 13 below the L, on your left. 13 Planning Department generally follows property lines. 14 MEMBER SHIBUYA: That's not the post office. 14 So we just want to be clear that the lines that Mark is 15 MEMBER MOIKEHA: It's down further, isn't it? 15 drawing are not precise. Unless there's some huge 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. 16 deviation from a property line, we'll adjust it to 17 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Farm and residences. 17 follow the property lines. 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Post office is down here, 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I would like to call for 19 lower down. 19 the question. 20 MR. SUMMERS: That piece there. 20 CHAIR CANNON: Other comments? 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I would suggest that if you 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I would like to call for 22 want to include the post office, that this line here, 22 the question. We have a lot of things to do. 23 approximately here, go across and come back like this 23 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor of the 24 and include the post office. This area here be included 24 amendment, please raise your hands. Eighteen in favor. 25 into -- it's actually -- it would be within the same 25 All opposed? Two. 31 (Pages 118 to 121) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 122 Page 124 1 Any abstentions? One, two, three. 1 the Upcountry region. And the one thing I want to call 2 Okay. The motion carries. 2 to your attention is that what is not mentioned on this 3 Now back to the original motion, which is to 3 map is this very, very large area beginning 4 accept the U2 map as amended. Further discussion? 4 approximately along the boundary, along the Kula Highway 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Call for the question. 5 here, going downhill which is the Hawaiian Homelands 6 CHAIR CANNON: I have just a question before 6 area, which has not been designated on this map. You 7 we vote. Is the Kula Ridge project included on this 7 can see the roads there for the project here. There are 8 map? 8 already 300, I think, units there, that's eventually 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yes, it is. The area -- 9 planned for up to 3,000 more units. And that's a major 10 Kula Ridge would be located in this area. I'm trying -- 10 development in the Upcountry area that's not mentioned 11 could you come in closer in this area? It was a little 11 on this map and it's progressing, steadily, this 12 bit unclear as to -- unclear as to whether it is or is 12 development taking place right now there. 13 not. This area right here. Okay. 13 There is also some agricultural lot -- here's 14 CHAIR CANNON: Is it inside the border or 14 Keokea here. And there is some Hawaiian Homelands 15 outside? 15 agricultural lots in this area, which are not mentioned. 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's what I'm trying to 16 And eventually, these will tie all the way across, the 17 find out. Could you put the Community Plan map on that? 17 Hawaiian Homelands will be going down, covering this 18 Okay. Let's see now. This is the community center 18 whole area, around 5,000 acres, 6,000 acres. 19 here. It's tough to tell. I think, though, this -- 19 CHAIR CANNON: Do I hear a motion with regard 20 CHAIR CANNON: Mark, do you have the Kula 20 to map U2, U3? 21 Ridge project on your databases? 21 Lucienne. 22 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Yeah, this is the 22 MEMBER deNAIE: I would move to accept Map U3 23 Holy Ghost Church here, this blue here. This is the 23 as we have it printed as the boundaries are delineated. 24 community center here. And these are two parcels within 24 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? Carl 25 the Community Plan map that had been designated for some 25 seconds. Page 123 Page 125 1 kind of development. So Kula Ridge is outside. Kula 1 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Second. 2 Ridge is outside the area. This was their proposed 2 CHAIR CANNON: Further discussion? 3 project, this area here. And this is the community 3 Stan. 4 center. These are residences here. And they also had a 4 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 5 second project, which would include all of this area, 5 I just have a question because Our Lady Queen 6 all the way up to here, plus all this area called Kula 6 of Angels is right across this RSC. There's 7 Ridge Mauka. They have two separate developments that 7 approximately three acres, I guess, adjoining the church 8 they are proposing. And the County Council took up this 8 right now that there has been consideration by the 9 one in particular about four months ago and turned it 9 Diocese of Honolulu putting a spiritual life center in 10 down unanimously because the Kula Association and other 10 there with the current lines as it's shown. Would that 11 people's concern with water and traffic in the area. 11 be able to be accommodated? 12 But the developer is coming back now and trying to 12 CHAIR CANNON: Does this -- do you know if 13 redesign it. 13 this map includes the entire church site? 14 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Dick. 14 I guess that's the question, right? 15 Any other discussion on the motion? 15 MEMBER FRANCO: Yeah. And whether to -- 16 (Silence.) 16 CHAIR CANNON: Stan. 17 CHAIR CANNON: All in favor, raise your hand. 17 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Which motion is this now? 18 The first question is whether that blue line 19 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Main motion. 19 around that upper -- the mauka side of the RSC includes 20 CHAIR CANNON: This is map U2 with the changes 20 Our Lady Queen of Angels entire property. And the 21 that we made. Nineteen in favor. 21 second question is whether a spiritual life center, if 22 All opposed? One. 22 that happens in the future, would that be able to be 23 All abstentions? Three. 23 accommodated in the present designation? 24 Are we on U3? 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let me try it again. This 25 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: U3. U3 is the south end of 25 is, I believe, the church right here, church complex. 32 (Pages 122 to 125) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 126 Page 128 1 And it seems to have quite a bit of land mauka from that 1 center or something? 2 church site there. So I would presume this is a 2 MR. HUNT: Conceivably. 3 boundary line of the property. But, I couldn't 3 MEMBER deNAIE: Okay. Thank you. 4 guarantee that. This is the Kula park, the Keokea Park 4 CHAIR CANNON: Discussion of the motion? 5 there, located here. 5 Lesley. 6 CHAIR CANNON: Do you know, Mark, if that's on 6 MEMBER BRUCE: Lesley Bruce, Hana. 7 the property line? Probably would be, yeah? 7 If it's convenient, I would like to see 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah, this is -- this looks 8 Keokea, an outline of these Hawaiian Homelands, if it's 9 like the entire property is on there. 9 easy for Mark to do, just so that we can visualize that. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. And the second question 10 Thank you very much. 11 was whether a -- 11 CHAIR CANNON: Other comments on the motion, 12 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Whether they would be 12 moving from Lesley this way? 13 permitted in that type of a zone. 13 Joe. 14 MEMBER FRANCO: Right. Creating a spiritual 14 MEMBER BERTRAM: It does appear that the 15 life center place where retreats and other things like 15 service center that they put in is -- does allow for 16 that could happen. 16 expansion. 17 CHAIR CANNON: John, does that fit within RR? 17 And just following up on this -- you know, 18 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 18 this Hawaiian Homelands. If there's that many homes 19 I think, generally, yes. The Community Plan 19 coming in, it would seem prudent to put in enough 20 process will delineate precisely the types of activities 20 expansion so you can actually accommodate the folks 21 that would be allowed in those areas. You know, we've 21 living in the area for some of the basic needs, not just 22 talked about Rural Residential as the principal use in 22 a chain store, but more stores. I notice that there is 23 the area. The Community Plan designation there would be 23 room, it looks like it, but I'm just -- I'm wondering if 24 respected. And through that Community Plan process 24 that discussion took place and they actually tried to 25 individual uses like that would be accommodated. 25 accommodate for the future growth and to accommodate all Page 127 Page 129 1 CHAIR CANNON: Can you tell us what the blue 1 these families. 2 is? 2 CHAIR CANNON: Do you want to respond to that, 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Quasi Public. 3 Dick. 4 Public/Quasi-Public. 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: May I? I think the 5 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Thank you. 5 Hawaiian Homelands has full rights. They can put in the 6 Lucienne. 6 type of commercial uses they would want in the area, 7 MEMBER deNAIE: Just, also, a second question 7 they can put a school, parks, community centers, 8 for staff. I think that this is great that Stan brought 8 commercial areas in there, really outside of the County 9 this up. I was one of the ones in the IRC in Economic 9 thing. And we don't really know as a community 10 Development and Housing to indicate that we needed more 10 Upcountry what they plan and what they will do. But I 11 place for retreat centers, you know, in all locations of 11 suspect over the -- over the longer term, they will have 12 the island because it's an important educational 12 many of the amenities that they will need on their own, 13 function. Because it's Public/Quasi-Public in the 13 most of the 6,000 acres, whatever it is, property that 14 Community Plan, would it make sense to put it in the 14 they have. It almost goes down to Kihei down here. 15 Country Town designation, or is that kind of mutually 15 CHAIR CANNON: Joe. 16 exclusive? If staff could just answer that, you know, 16 MEMBER BERTRAM: I understand that. It's just 17 if -- if those kinds -- like we just put the post office 17 that it seems like we should still accommodate and plan 18 in because it's Public/Quasi-Public, would it make sense 18 ahead. Not just wait, but actually look at those issues 19 to also do that just to, you know, acknowledge the fact 19 and to accommodate these in the area, hopefully within 20 that it's a church with public use? 20 walking, biking, horse-riding distance from where they 21 CHAIR CANNON: Jeff. 21 live. 22 MR. HUNT: The problem with increasing it to 22 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion of the motion? 23 Business Country Town is, then, you are allowing all the 23 I think I already passed you, but if you want to have it 24 uses that are allowed in that type of zoning. 24 more back and forth, I can do that, too. 25 MEMBER deNAIE: So it could become a shopping 25 MEMBER SKOG: I had to step out. 33 (Pages 126 to 129) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 130 Page 132 1 CHAIR CANNON: Oh, okay, you had to step out. 1 motion, please raise your hand. Nineteen in favor. 2 Go for it, then. 2 All opposed? 3 MEMBER SKOG: So -- I'm sorry. So the motion 3 All abstentions. Four, I believe. Four 4 is just to accept the whole map? 4 abstentions. 5 CHAIR CANNON: That's correct. 5 The motion carries. 6 MEMBER SKOG: So the discussion right now is 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Let's move on. 7 about whether to broaden the Rural Service Center? 7 CHAIR CANNON: Next map. 8 CHAIR CANNON: That was Joe's discussion, yes. 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let's move on to Hana which 9 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. So I want to make a 9 is, basically, one map. It's Map E1. Map Number 20, if 10 motion to broaden the service center. 10 you put numbers on the top. 11 CHAIR CANNON: In what manner? 11 MEMBER VICENS: E1? 12 MEMBER SKOG: Well, I need guidance from 12 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: E1. East 1. 13 Planning on how and where we can stretch, maybe other 13 CHAIR CANNON: Dick, you want to describe 14 people from the area. Can you blow up the map? 14 this? 15 CHAIR CANNON: Mark. 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. What we have here is 16 MR. KING: Aloha. Mark King, staff. 16 this is Hana Bay here, just to locate it, this is Hana 17 When we considered this area, it was beyond 17 Town, which would be designated as a country -- Business 18 the 2030 forecast. So remember we're just planning for 18 Country Town area here. Then around that area are 19 -- not forever. 19 several existing areas on the Community Plan map that 20 Thank you. 20 are zoned and set aside for rural areas, Rural 21 MEMBER SKOG: Right. But the point on the 21 Residential areas all through here, scattered -- well, 22 Hawaiian Homelands, I think, is a good one that Joe 22 they are not contiguous. This is the airport way out 23 made. So if the current rural service center is just 23 here. The one addition that the IRC recommended is that 24 what is existing, I was just wondering if there is a way 24 an additional 100 acres be set aside mauka of the road. 25 we can -- it's not just existing? So how many acres is 25 Now, as you come -- if you were coming from Page 131 Page 133 1 that in the current configuration? 1 Kahului, you are coming here to the fire station, police 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: It's a business -- 2 station here, medical center here, then you would either 3 CHAIR CANNON: It looks beyond what is 3 -- either go along this road to the bay or you could 4 existing. Is that Ching's store right there? 4 continue straight to the hotel area here. On this side 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. 5 of the road here, there should be an additional 100 6 CHAIR CANNON: So it did get bigger. It is 6 acres set aside. And we did not designate. We heard 7 quite a bit bigger there. 7 several issues in the IRC process about water coming 8 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. Okay. Then I would -- 8 down, flooding, et cetera. So we did not want to 9 CHAIR CANNON: So it's already taken care of, 9 designate the exact 100 acres, but are making the 10 yeah. You think? 10 recommendation that the Hana Advisory Committee and the 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I think it's quite -- in 11 Hana Community Association give advice to the Planning 12 fact, yeah, this is -- this -- this is an old school 12 Commission exactly where that 100-acre parcel should be 13 site here next to St. John's Church. This is -- this 13 set aside for a Rural Residential affordable homes 14 area potentially could be developed here and behind the 14 subdivision for approximately 210 units. And that -- 15 store, as well behind the stores here. This just for -- 15 CHAIR CANNON: Your motion with that regard -- 16 this is the Kula Hospital here. 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: -- that would have been on 17 MEMBER SKOG: Kula Hospital, right. Okay. 17 the mauka side between the hotel and the fire station on 18 Then I withdraw my motion. 18 the mauka side of that road. And we did not want to 19 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Moving from Joe this 19 designate whether that would go uphill 100 acres in the 20 way, any other comments on this side? 20 rectangle or along the road 100 acres this way. A lot 21 Coming around, Dick. 21 depends on the configuration and on the flooding. 22 Susan. 22 CHAIR CANNON: Do I hear a motion with regard 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: No. 23 to this map? 24 CHAIR CANNON: Any around here? Okay. 24 John. 25 Ready for the question? All in favor of the 25 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: I'll make a motion. 34 (Pages 130 to 133) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 134 Page 136 1 CHAIR CANNON: Motion to approve? 1 not going to take the entire 100 acres. And we have 2 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Second. 2 been talking about, in round numbers, a 10-acre site for 3 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 3 a senior center in a housing complex. So it is going to 4 MEMBER deNAIE: Second. 4 be community use land. The primary use is going to be 5 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Warren Shibuya. 5 for affordable housing, but there may be other uses on 6 Further discussion? 6 it as well. 7 John. 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: So maybe I should amend my 8 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Carl and I and Lisa and 8 comment to say that the 100 acres would be used for both 9 Lesley have discussed with Mark King some of the 9 affordable housing and senior housing for the community. 10 inconsistencies in the map. We don't need to try to 10 And I should also add that when -- the Hana Advisory 11 correct them now. They can be easily corrected with the 11 Committee and the ranch would be meeting together for 12 existing Hana Community Plan and going over the actual 12 delegate which -- which area it would exactly be, 13 TMKs. So we have -- I think we've talked about, you 13 boundary lines. 14 know, getting that together and giving it to the 14 MEMBER LINDQUIST: I would be more comfortable 15 Planning Department so there's no misunderstanding. 15 with it saying that it's gonna be used for affordable 16 I mean, for example, the marks where it may be 16 housing, senior center and other possible community 17 taken off, but the Hana Airport was Rural Residential, 17 uses, because that could change. 18 the Hana School was Rural Residential. So those are 18 CHAIR CANNON: Are you okay with that, 19 incorrect, but there's -- it's not controversial. 19 everyone? Any dissent with that? 20 Dick's characterization of the 100 acres for local 20 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Yes. I'm glad Carl made 21 housing is reflected in the 200 units which we have in 21 that clarification, because I amend it to include the 22 the -- on the map there. So -- 22 proposed senior housing as well. 23 CHAIR CANNON: So does Dick's comments go 23 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Any other discussion? 24 along with your motion, as part of the motion? 24 Lesley. 25 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Yes. And we did just 25 MEMBER BRUCE: Lesley Bruce, Hana. Page 135 Page 137 1 informally -- I mean, Carl -- I think Carl and I and 1 I wanted to remind everyone that this is an 2 Lisa and Lesley are gonna get together with the 2 area that's been overlaid by cultural significance. And 3 information, be sure we all agree upon it before it gets 3 on the Heritage maps, that's indicated. And some of 4 submitted to the mapping people. 4 these RRs have very special places of cultural sites to 5 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. So you will -- your 5 the community and to our island as a whole and to Kanaka 6 motion is to accept this map as corrected and with 6 Maoli. And Hana will need to be a very specially 7 Dick's point about the 100 acres? 7 considered area for these reasons. 8 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Yes. 8 Thank you. 9 CHAIR CANNON: Carl. 9 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion coming this 10 MEMBER LINDQUIST: I have just a little 10 way? 11 reservation about the specificity of the 100 acres being 11 Susan. 12 used for residential use only because there is a senior 12 Dick. 13 center also being planned in that area. It will have a 13 Anyone else? 14 housing component, but there will be a senior center in 14 John. 15 that area as well. So -- 15 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Warren just raised a 16 CHAIR CANNON: I believe Dick even went 16 good point with me. And that's that we haven't looked 17 further than that, to that it was affordable, that 17 at Keanae, Wailua Nui. And I think we should, as part 18 whole -- 18 of the mapping. 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah, the 100 acres the IRC 19 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. That would -- 20 recommended would be 100-acre affordable housing project 20 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: The other thing that's 21 in that area. Is the senior center you're talking about 21 just for the record, as so that it's clear for Mark in 22 separate from the 100 acres? 22 the minutes, is that a lot of the Rural Residential is 23 MEMBER LINDQUIST: It's in the same -- it's -- 23 from Hana Town towards Kipahulu, the Koele area. The 24 the Hana Ranch has said that they will donate 100 acres 24 actual zoning of that right now is actually Interim 25 for community use. The affordable housing project is 25 Rural. Just so that's clear. 35 (Pages 134 to 137) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 138 Page 140 1 CHAIR CANNON: I think that may be on our next 1 Hana Town along the coast down towards Seven Pools, for 2 map. 2 about five or six miles along the coast there. And all 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: It'll be on the E2 map. 3 of the areas that are indicated in blue are Rural 4 CHAIR CANNON: So other discussion of this 4 Residential areas outlying the residential areas along 5 motion, E1? 5 that road. 6 Yes, Lucienne. 6 CHAIR CANNON: Do I hear a motion with regard 7 MEMBER deNAIE: Just a clarification. 7 to this map, E2? Moved by Carl, seconded by John 8 So it appears that some of the areas here are 8 Blumer-Buell. 9 areas that are not currently having any development, but 9 Further discussion? 10 were these areas that were specified as rural as a 10 Stan. 11 Community Plan? Is that the derivation of Hana folks? 11 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. Stan Franco. 12 Because I hear what Lesley says. And I, too, have read 12 I'm a little bit confused. Because in the 13 some of the studies about this area. There are some 13 description of the 2.8 household size, there's 200 units 14 very, very significant sites and complexes and clusters. 14 demanded and it says 200 units proposed. But I look at 15 So we want to make sure that that is being acknowledged. 15 the map, I cannot see where this proposal is. Could 16 And we do have our overlay map that says, you know, 16 that be explained? 17 everything is culturally significant, but Hana, in 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Shall I try it? That -- 18 particular, just has, you know, very, very high 18 CHAIR CANNON: Dick. 19 concentrations. So I want to make sure that our 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That was the area that I 20 policies are gonna be reflected in our land use 20 mentioned, the 100 acres that would be set aside near 21 decisions here. 21 Hana Town. That would be 100 acres that the -- there 22 Any clarification from Hana folks on how much 22 has been a long-standing demand. The question came up 23 of this is land that was already proposed in the 23 that I -- the ISE, where it should be, and we decided 24 Community Plan that the community agrees is a good, you 24 that we didn't know the exact location. So we thought 25 know, place for future housing? 25 it should be worked out between the ranch and the -- and Page 139 Page 141 1 CHAIR CANNON: John. 1 the Hana Advisory Committee. 2 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: I appreciate Lucienne's 2 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 3 comments. I think that part of what she's saying is 3 Yes, Lisa. 4 some of the confusion was near the Hana Landfill. And 4 MEMBER HAMILTON: Yeah, I'd just like to 5 if you look in the Community Plan maps, there's -- near 5 mention one. 6 the landfill, there's a number of different designations 6 CHAIR CANNON: Lisa Hamilton. 7 from conservation to park to light industrial to rural 7 MEMBER HAMILTON: I would like to make a point 8 to open space. And so these were the kinds of things we 8 there on the map, if you know where it is, that's all in 9 want to clarify for the maps that go to the Planning 9 a tsunami inundation zone. And it seems to me, in this 10 Commission. And rather than take the time to go through 10 State, to consider that appropriate for development -- 11 the whole exercise now, to save time, we thought we 11 because I lived in another area where the land slid out 12 could just get together and get everybody to sign off on 12 after it was permitted to be built on and the County had 13 it. 13 to pay for it. So I just want to think that where 14 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. All in favor of the 14 there's tsunami inundation, I don't think there should 15 motion, please raise your hand. 20 in favor. 15 be rural development. 16 All opposed? Zero. 16 CHAIR CANNON: John. 17 All abstentions? Two. 17 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: We will provide the 18 Motion carries. 18 County with the same kind of exercise just to be sure 19 We'll take a five-minute recess. It's for the 19 that these are correct in the final maps that go to the 20 stenographer. 20 Planning Commission. 21 (Recess, 1:40 p.m. to 1:50 p.m.) 21 Secondly, for Stan, this is not, you know, 22 CHAIR CANNON: I call the meeting back to 22 exact science, estimating the 200 units. And I recall a 23 order. Ask for quiet, please. And we are on Map E2. 23 the number of people in Hana that were involved with the 24 Want to describe this one, Dick? 24 housing situation. And the best feedback that I got was 25 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is the area south of 25 based upon how many people we -- how many kids we have 36 (Pages 138 to 141) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 142 Page 144 1 graduating from Hana School every year, which is about 1 and Haiku, N2. That's Map 12 if you numbered them. 2 20. So we -- we took that as a basis for projecting the 2 CHAIR CANNON: That would be N as in Nancy, 2? 3 need for housing over -- so that's how that figure was 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yes. 4 arrived at. I mean, if you said every person that 4 CHAIR CANNON: Do I hear a motion with regard 5 graduated from Hana School or over the next 20 years 5 to N2? Lucienne? 6 would need a house that's 400, we thought maybe half. 6 MEMBER deNAIE: I move to accept Map N2 as we 7 And there's a pent-up demand already. So that's how we 7 have in our packet. 8 got that number. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 9 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 9 MEMBER deNAIE: Actually, so we are not going 10 Lucienne. 10 to start with N2? We're going to start with N2? 11 MEMBER deNAIE: Just another clarification 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: We're gonna start with N2. 12 question. 12 MEMBER deNAIE: Then I move to accept N2, 13 So the area in the -- and I do appreciate the 13 Haiku and Paia. 14 Hana contingent like following through on these things, 14 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? Seconded by 15 like the inundation area. We should be giving some 15 Warren Shibuya. 16 thought to that. The area that's along the coast that's 16 Further discussion? 17 all Rural Residential, is that because it's Interim 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let me explain it. 18 Rural now? Could anybody clarify that? 18 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, please. 19 MR. MICHAELSON: Yes. 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: What you have on the left 20 MEMBER deNAIE: So this is just moving that 20 side of that map in yellow is the town of Paia, which is 21 forward. And does anyone from Hana think that perhaps 21 a Country Town. We're recommending that there be two 22 having it right along the coast at rural density is a 22 areas of expansion down below in what might be called 23 good or bad idea? 23 Lower Paia. To the east and west of the town, you'll 24 CHAIR CANNON: Lisa. 24 see that those yellow bubbles going out from the town, 25 MEMBER HAMILTON: I would start to make the 25 and from Baldwin Avenue to close up the middle of that Page 143 Page 145 1 point that whole area was supposed to have a cultural 1 town. And those two would be two areas of expansion for 2 overlay because there's a lot of cultural resources in 2 Paia Town. Then up above, in what used to be called 3 that area. That has never happened and that would be 3 Upper Paia, you will see the residential area there. 4 part of our process after this is over with. But I just 4 And then in the upper part of that residential area, on 5 want to alert everybody that is -- we're supposed to be 5 the -- on the right-hand side of that, going uphill, you 6 a cultural overlay there. 6 would see the open space there, that would be an 7 CHAIR CANNON: Any other comments on the 7 additional area for future growth of the community in 8 motion? 8 Paia. 9 Yes, Lisa -- Lesley. 9 Moving over -- 10 MEMBER BRUCE: I think the General Plan needs 10 MEMBER deNAIE: Dick? 11 to reflect the conservation land that the last owners of 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yes. 12 the hotel set aside and that was promised when Kato was 12 MEMBER deNAIE: Could you use your little 13 part of the Hotel Hana Ranch operation, and the Hoolea 13 pointer when you do that? Because not everybody knows 14 Point. Those places should be on the General Plan. 14 what you're talking about. 15 They are very significant and it should be specified. 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Thank you. Thank 16 Thank you. 16 you, yeah. 17 CHAIR CANNON: Other comments on the motion? 17 This area would be one area of expansion here 18 (Silence.) 18 in Lower Paia. And here would be a second area for 19 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor, indicate by 19 expansion in Lower Paia. And the third area in Upper 20 raising your hand. Nineteen in favor. 20 Paia would be this area right in here, here. You will 21 All opposed? Zero. 21 notice there's a break between the two communities here, 22 Abstentions? Three abstentions. 22 a very narrow break here for a transportation corridor 23 Motion carries. 23 to come through that area where the old railroad tracks 24 Where are we going now? 24 were. 25 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: We're now gonna go to Paia 25 Over here, we have two items on the map. This 37 (Pages 142 to 145) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 146 Page 148 1 is the old Maui High School, H-Poko here, which has been 1 Yes, Lesley. 2 designated as a Rural Service Center, then across the 2 MEMBER BRUCE: I would like to ask Mark to 3 street from that, on the sugarcane fields here, is a 3 please superimpose various transit corridors because 4 Rural Residential area being proposed to go alongside 4 this area is heavily gridlocked now with transportation 5 it. 5 problems. And the -- I believe that one shows the old 6 Over here, in Paia, here was -- excuse me. 6 post office as the station. And I would suggest that 7 Haiku -- excuse me -- Haiku Town, here is a service 7 the station go between the mill and Skill Village 8 center here, and a second service center over in 8 because you are knocking out homes by doing it there. 9 Pauwela, next to the cannery here, the cannery area 9 And just above East Maui Irrigation Company office, you 10 here. And then throughout Haiku in several spots here 10 wouldn't be knocking out homes, if you moved the transit 11 are Rural Residential areas reflecting the Community 11 corridor up a little bit. And it's still within 12 Plan areas there. 12 walkable distance. I walk from Rainbow Park to Lower 13 CHAIR CANNON: Any discussion? 13 Paia to catch the bus, the public bus. And then it's 14 Stan. 14 only three miles up and three miles down from where I 15 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 15 usually walk. So you are still within walking distance 16 I'm not sure how to handle this because I have 16 of Skill Village and Lower Paia if you move the transit 17 a lot of questions. This is an area I come from. Born 17 station. 18 and raised in Haiku. My wife is from Paia, spent a lot 18 CHAIR CANNON: I believe, Lesley, that the 19 of time in Hamakuapoko. So this is a very dear place to 19 Paia station that was intended by the Committee was the 20 me. 20 old Paia train station. 21 So the first question I have for 21 MEMBER BRUCE: That's the one that you would 22 clarification, in Paia Town, did we know where the 22 have to be -- some people would lose their homes. 23 boundaries are, what -- if there's any streets we are 23 CHAIR CANNON: Oh. 24 locating on this, how much acreage we are talking about. 24 MEMBER BRUCE: Thank you. 25 Then, above Paia Town, what is called Upper Paia at one 25 CHAIR CANNON: Thanks. Page 147 Page 149 1 time, do the boundaries include Holy Ghost -- not Holy 1 Yes, Warren Suzuki. 2 Ghost, but Holy Rosary Church. 2 MEMBER SUZUKI: Warren Suzuki. 3 And another question is, what is the sliver of 3 As Stan indicated, I, too, was born and raised 4 developable area that you are proposing for future 4 in Paia. And I have very strong passionate feelings 5 development, where is that in particular? Is that in 5 about Paia. 6 the Paia School area or is it below the Paia School 6 And I guess the question that I have is when 7 area? Where is it exactly? 7 we -- when we talked about expansion in other areas, we 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Here's the school. The 8 clarified that the units would be workforce housing or 9 school area is up here in this area here. So this is 9 affordable housing. And I would like to, you know, make 10 below -- this is a church across the street from the 10 that clarification that those units that are being 11 school. And here's the school area here. There's both 11 proposed, 166 and the 180, you know, be for workforce 12 Public/Quasi-Public areas that have been left off the 12 housing because the reality -- the reality is, is that, 13 Urban boundaries, or any kind of boundaries at this 13 in Paia right now, you know, a lot of the -- lot of the 14 point on our -- in our exercise. So this is an area 14 people that I grew up with, and were born and raised in 15 below that. Here is the old sugar mill here and the 15 Paia, can no longer afford to live there because the 16 industrial land that surrounds it. 16 prices have gotten utterly ridiculous. So they can't 17 MEMBER deNAIE: Skill Village. 17 afford to live there. And if you want to create a 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is Skill Village here, 18 community, you need to make sure that the demographics 19 here. 19 of the community include those that live there 20 And this is, of course, Paia Town itself here. 20 permanently and not just come and visit during sporadic 21 And the two areas being urged for -- recommended for 21 times of the year. 22 expansion are here to the west. And then an area to the 22 So I would like to make a clarification that 23 east over here. This is the Paia Community Center down 23 those units be for workforce housing. 24 here and the temple across the street. 24 CHAIR CANNON: Is that an amendment to the 25 CHAIR CANNON: Other comments? 25 motion? 38 (Pages 146 to 149) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 150 Page 152 1 MEMBER FILIMOE'ATU: I don't know. 1 motion. I mean, I don't know about workforce, but it's 2 MEMBER SUZUKI: It could be a friendly 2 gonna be affordable. It's eight acres of the 15, too, 3 amendment. 3 so the other seven acres -- I'm not sure, you know, what 4 MEMBER deNAIE: Second. 4 the other seven acres is going to be for. But their 5 MEMBER SUZUKI: I'll make a motion to that 5 proposal was around eight acres. 6 effect. 6 CHAIR CANNON: Would you say workforce and 7 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. And seconded by 7 affordable, then? No. Just workforce. So that would 8 Lucienne. 8 not fit, I guess. The seven acres wouldn't fit with 9 Discussion on the amendment? 9 workforce. So if you'll remove that, is that okay with 10 (Silence.) 10 you? 11 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor of the 11 MEMBER deNAIE: Yeah. 12 amendment, please -- the amendment is to state that 12 CHAIR CANNON: Is that okay with everyone 13 these 166 units and 180 units to the east and west of 13 else? Anyone have a dissent? 14 existing Paia Town be reserved for workforce housing. 14 Chubby. 15 Would you say they're affordable, then? Just workforce 15 MEMBER VICENS: I don't have a dissent, but I 16 housing? Okay. 16 have been -- that's the property that at one time was 17 Further discussion? 17 designated as part of Maui Business Park, Phase 1. And 18 Hans. 18 it was supposed to be for affordable housing. However, 19 MEMBER MICHEL: If there's one more place in 19 the group that is now considering it and has gotten -- I 20 Upper Paia, it also would include for workforce housing? 20 think they've gotten County permission to move forward, 21 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 21 it would be having special needs, young adults, doing 22 Yes, Lucienne. 22 farming, living on the property, and trying to make 23 MEMBER MICHEL: Thank you. 23 themself sufficient and aware of the environment around 24 MEMBER deNAIE: Yes. 24 them, but in kind of a protective manner. So I think 25 CHAIR CANNON: Those three areas, then. The 25 the whole site is earmarked for this particular special Page 151 Page 153 1 other is a 15-acre parcel with 68 units. 1 needs farm. 2 Other discussion of the motion? 2 Thank you. 3 Lesley. 3 CHAIR CANNON: So that area has been removed 4 MEMBER BRUCE: I believe that area where the 4 from the motion and we're only including the two areas 5 Japanese congregational church used to be at, the 15 5 east and west of existing Paia Town. 6 acres that we were just talking about, has -- that's a 6 Susan. 7 planned place for the units that would be for 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Just so I'm clear, so 8 handicapped adults. I'm not sure how they call 8 Warren's amendment is to approve this, but make a 9 themselves. We heard testimony from those people very 9 reservation for workforce housing in those two areas? 10 early on. And the signs are there designating that the 10 CHAIR CANNON: Correct. 11 plantation was sharing that land with them somehow. 11 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I have a little concern about 12 CHAIR CANNON: So that was for handicapped. 12 that, especially serving on the Housing element IRC. We 13 MEMBER BRUCE: I don't know what they call 13 have an ordinance that calls that out for everyone. So 14 themselves. 14 I'm a little concerned that now we're getting really 15 MEMBER SUZUKI: Special needs. 15 specific on this particular growth -- this particular 16 CHAIR CANNON: Special needs people. So you 16 area. And I understand the intent. So does that mean 17 want to remove that from your motion? 17 there's no market rates to offset their homes in this 18 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, now it's been 18 area? I mean, how -- because I could read that many 19 clarified, I wouldn't have any objection to deleting 19 ways. I'm real concerned about -- maybe if you could 20 that from the motion. 20 give more clarification. I understand your intent, 21 CHAIR CANNON: How about you, Lucienne? 21 though. 22 MEMBER deNAIE: Well, I know the people that 22 CHAIR CANNON: Warren Suzuki. 23 are working on that community. And it's my 23 MEMBER SUZUKI: I would just say it's for 24 understanding it's gonna be affordable for people. So I 24 workforce housing. Workforce does include individuals 25 don't think it would be out of keeping with Warren's 25 that are able to purchase units that are in excess of 39 (Pages 150 to 153) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 154 Page 156 1 what is considered to be affordable. So it could be 1 in, the next time they -- the next committee will say, 2 affordable, it could be gap, it also could be market, 2 well, we'll add to this. I don't think we want to have 3 but it's for the workforce. 3 the North Shore with, you know, these kind of 4 CHAIR CANNON: Any further discussion? 4 residential communities. We have too much already in 5 Yes, Dick. 5 Haiku and other areas. So I will be speaking against 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Warren's last statement 6 the rural expansion for Hamakuapoko, and then I want to 7 would be very confusing, because our ordinance talks 7 talk about Haiku when that comes up. So I move -- I -- 8 about workforce housing as being a certain income 8 I move to amend -- to take out the rural expansion for 9 category. He is saying workforce. That could imply to 9 Hamakuapoko. 10 somebody who is making a million dollars a year and 10 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 11 working, as he defined it. And I don't think that's 11 Lesley. 12 what he intends. So I wish you would clarify what 12 MEMBER BRUCE: I second the motion. 13 workforce housing is, at least. If it's different from 13 CHAIR CANNON: She seconds. 14 the ordinance, then we need a different word. 14 Further discussion? 15 CHAIR CANNON: I think you just said that we 15 Chubby. 16 included all three categories, gap, affordable and 16 MEMBER VICENS: Mr. Chair? 17 market price. So -- 17 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I think in the ordinance, 18 MEMBER VICENS: Chubby Vicens. 19 market prices are not considered part of the workforce 19 The reason we wanted to create or recreate a 20 housing. It's a group of housing that can help 20 rural village was the fact that the Rural Service Center 21 subsidize the affordable housing group. It would get 21 area that's posted up there is the old school. And 22 confusing. 22 there is a movement to try and revitalize that 23 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 23 particular area. Our thought was that without a village 24 (Silence.) 24 supporting that particular effort, that effort would 25 CHAIR CANNON: All in favor of the motion, 25 fail. And there are a lot of people that are involved Page 155 Page 157 1 please raise your hand. Sixteen in favor. 1 in trying to recreate that as a -- as a memorial, if you 2 All opposed? Two opposed. 2 will, to the old school that was there a long time ago. 3 Any abstentions? Four abstentions. 3 So the idea was to support it, and support it, the 4 Motion carries. 4 caveat was that nothing could be built out there until 5 On to the original motion, which is to accept 5 the bypass was completed, which is, you know, really 6 those areas delineated on Map N2. 6 slated for somewhere around 2014. And I might add, 7 Any discussion, Stan? 7 along those lines, that the very first meetings for that 8 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 8 bypass will start on March the 3rd. So it's a reality. 9 I just was mentioning that I -- each of these 9 It's going to happen. But it was more of a opportunity 10 communities are unique. So we went to Paia, now we're 10 to make sure that there was something around the service 11 at Hamakuapoko. I want to talk about, also, Haiku, at 11 center that could make it a viable project. 12 some point in time, where I grew up. But I want to talk 12 Thank you. 13 Hamakuapoko first. 13 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion of the motion? 14 We are, on this map, doing a rural expansion 14 Yes. 15 on ag lands. You know, unless we going to create what 15 MEMBER BERTRAM: So this is a discussion to 16 we said we were going to create, town centers, small 16 the amendment to the motion? 17 towns, this is just rural expansion on ag land that is, 17 CHAIR CANNON: Correct. 18 I think, good ag land. It, to me, is spot zoning. And 18 MEMBER BERTRAM: Okay. Yeah. I would not 19 I cannot appreciate or understand why we doing this. 19 want to support that amendment, mainly because it's just 20 It's a real concern for me that we talk about 20 as Chubby brought up. There is -- it's not just gonna 21 food security and we have had a lot of discussion and 21 be a memorial to the old high school. They're actually 22 people come talk to us about that, and then we take land 22 going to make it an active place that's going to include 23 that's good ag land and just plop homes on it. It's -- 23 community services and those types of things. 24 what will do -- what will happen is, in the future, 24 Hamakuapoko, if you go up to the place now, you have a 25 we'll have a big town around this, we say we put this 25 picture, they have a map of what was the town there 40 (Pages 154 to 157) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 158 Page 160 1 before. 1 place where people might be employed at the service 2 Now, the only thing I -- the only thing I see 2 center -- I mean, at -- you know, at the revitalized Old 3 is that, yeah, I was just confused as to what a rural 3 Maui High, although probably it won't be hundreds of 4 expansion is in the sense of does it include the various 4 people. It might be a dozen people. I -- I'm very torn 5 services that would recreate a town here. But I am very 5 because it is an area that has been traditionally 6 supportive of recreating a town. It was there, it could 6 agricultural, too. And, of course, developing in this 7 be there again. Not just as a memorial, but as an 7 area does have impacts on what goes below, which is 8 actual living entity that represents, again, the old 8 Hookipa and so forth and so on. We already have a 9 town coming back. 9 terrible runoff problem there from just the nearshore 10 The only thing that I can put as a caveat is 10 ag. So I -- I -- I think it's kind of a caveat. But it 11 just I'm really disappointed we don't show where the 11 -- it would give people a choice to live near a place 12 train stations are gonna be because they had one there. 12 that is something new. 13 And that's actually where it ran all the way into 13 You know, we do not have an environmental 14 Kahului. So it would really be helpful if parts of our 14 education center on Maui. This is in memory of Patsy 15 General Plan discussion was that we actually talk about 15 Mink, because she went to high school here. I have many 16 the train when that would be coming in rather than -- 16 friends, too, who are working on the Old Maui High 17 well, there it is. And where will you put the station 17 concept, from graduates to folks that, you know, have an 18 so that we could really plan it correctly. 18 interest in just the area's history. 19 So I would be against the amendment myself. 19 And I am inclined to feel that since it was in 20 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion of the 20 the Community Plan, and that I know that CIC was very, 21 amendment? 21 very thorough. I attended many of their meetings, and 22 Yes, Lucienne. 22 there was support to have something around the high 23 MEMBER deNAIE: Just a little historical 23 school there. Of course, you know, we heard a larger 24 background here. This was widely debated in the IRC. 24 proposal earlier, but I think I'm going to support this 25 And in the existing Haiku Community Plan, there is an 25 just because it has been vetted by a community process Page 159 Page 161 1 area that's on the mauka side of the Old Maui High that 1 that was pretty fair and balanced. And not everything 2 kind of wrapped around it that was designated for a 2 that's discussed and gets in the Community Plan gets in 3 affordable housing type of project in the Community 3 through a fair and balanced discussion, I will say that. 4 Plan. I forget how many acres it was, maybe 89 or 90 or 4 CHAIR CANNON: Other comments? 5 something. It wasn't huge, but it was on -- yeah, the 5 Trevor. 6 back side of Old Maui High. It wasn't in the original 6 MEMBER TOKISHI: Trevor Tokishi, Kahului. 7 draft of the plan. Chubby suggested that, you know, 7 I want to disclose that I'm on the board for 8 gee, this is a place, if -- if you're gonna be 8 Friends of Old Maui High School, so I will be recusing 9 revitalizing Old Maui High as an environmental education 9 myself from this. But in a few less words, I agree with 10 center, training center and so forth, it might be good 10 Lesley -- Lucienne, that this is village concept is 11 to have a little bit of a community there. The 11 consistent with the laws that we have. And I would be 12 Community Plan had agreed that it would be good to have 12 in favor of it. 13 something here. Lesley pointed out that the land that 13 CHAIR CANNON: Warren Suzuki. 14 is more makai of the high school is better climate-wise. 14 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, I'm probably one of 15 And, of course, it gets you nearer the bypass, too, if 15 the few Members here who graduated from Maui High 16 that's gonna be anywhere near the route. There are also 16 Hamakuapoko. But just as a matter of information, when 17 a series of bike paths and so forth that follow Holomua 17 you went to Maui High School, Paia community was a 18 Road which is the road that divides between the proposed 18 fairly thriving community. And there are people that 19 rural expansion and the service center. 19 you know lived in the area. In fact, the banyan tree in 20 I hear Stan's concerns. I'm kind of torn 20 the back, a lot of afternoons after school I went there 21 because this is a historic community that actually was a 21 for a little fun and games. But in any case, one of the 22 very viable community for a while, while it had a train 22 reasons why the school eventually was relocated was 23 and while it had a mill. Now, of course, whether we 23 because it was there by itself. It just didn't make 24 will ever see a train here or not, I don't know. We're 24 sense to continue having a school in the middle of the 25 not likely to see a new mill here. But we do have a 25 cane field with nothing else around. 41 (Pages 158 to 161) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 162 Page 164 1 So as Chubby said, if you're to add 1 MEMBER FRANCO: Yeah, we're looking at this 2 opportunities for residential use in that area, it would 2 area, this strip of land in here that would just add to 3 somehow revitalize that area, and add to maybe -- add to 3 -- I think this is the reservoir down here. And then it 4 the redevelopment of Maui High School. 4 goes up, actually, out to -- just someplace in here. 5 And, again, for myself, because I am a 5 Right behind the cannery is Lowrie Ditch. 6 graduate of Maui High School, Hamakuapoko, I have very 6 CHAIR CANNON: Up to Lowrie Ditch? 7 passionate feelings about the school and the campus and 7 MEMBER FRANCO: Yeah. 8 trying to keep it going. 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Here's the -- here's the 9 Thank you. 9 ditch. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion of the motion? 10 MEMBER FRANCO: Then land right in here. 11 MEMBER BERTRAM: Just a clarification. So the 11 MEMBER BRUCE: So that's Kent Smith's 12 motion -- 12 Residential District right there -- subdivision. Oh, 13 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Clarification, Joe. 13 whoever people lived there. 14 MEMBER BERTRAM: So right now, is the motion 14 MEMBER FRANCO: I was raised here. And this 15 on the amendment -- 15 adds more land to this little town here that's trying to 16 CHAIR CANNON: The motion is on the amendment, 16 make itself into a town center, with Haiku Cannery being 17 to remove that from Map N2. 17 converted to several businesses. This will give extra 18 MEMBER BERTRAM: So just to make clear. If 18 room for residential and business development, to make 19 you like the idea of a town there, then you have to vote 19 this a real town center. 20 against this motion. Okay. That's all. 20 CHAIR CANNON: Stan, then just to clarify, you 21 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Joe. 21 don't mean going all the way to Maliko, I guess, right? 22 All those in favor of the motion, indicate by 22 MEMBER FRANCO: No. 23 raising your hands. Three in favor. 23 CHAIR CANNON: Can you see it? Is that the 24 All opposed? Fourteen opposed. 24 ditch? 25 And abstentions? Five with the Chair. 25 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The ditch is here. The Page 163 Page 165 1 The motion fails. 1 ditch is at the bottom. 2 One recused. And one recusal. 2 CHAIR CANNON: Ditch is at the bottom. I 3 Anything more on Map N2? 3 thought -- yes, Stan. 4 Yes, Stan. 4 MEMBER FRANCO: Well, there is some housing 5 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 5 that is below, you know, Lowrie Ditch. But, yeah, 6 I beg your indulgence here. On the proposed 6 whatever is in that whole area should be -- I'm not sure 7 Haiku Urban Growth Boundary by Tri-Isle Main Street 7 what the designation is right now, but that should be 8 Resource Center -- and we had several people testify 8 included to make that whole area -- across the street is 9 from the Haiku Town -- there was a request to have a 9 the cannery, so that whole area on that side will add to 10 Urban Growth area from the Haiku Reservoir up to Lowrie 10 make that whole section -- you know, add another section 11 Ditch to make the Haiku Town area more complete as a 11 for development for business and for homes. 12 center where there will be housing and commercial area 12 MEMBER VICENS: How far down is it? 13 that could be incorporated, to make this more a Country 13 MEMBER SKOG: Not above it? 14 Town Center. And I would like to make a motion to add 14 CHAIR CANNON: Is it that whole -- is it just 15 that portion of land as recommended by Tri-Isle Main 15 that area there where they're pointing? No. It's -- 16 Street Resource Center to this map. 16 it's halfway to Maliko and comes from the point of, it 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Expand the area? Where is 17 looks likes, on this map. 18 that? I'm not sure where it is. 18 MEMBER FRANCO: Okay. It goes all the way. 19 MEMBER BRUCE: Mark, would you pull it up? 19 CHAIR CANNON: There. 20 MEMBER FRANCO: Where is Haiku Town? 20 MEMBER FRANCO: There's a reservoir. 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Here's the town center. 21 MEMBER SUZUKI: One person -- 22 CHAIR CANNON: Here's the cannery. 22 MEMBER SKOG: One person at a time, please. 23 MEMBER BRUCE: Where is Shishido cannery? 23 MEMBER FRANCO: Again, Stan Franco. 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Here's the intersection in 24 There's a reservoir and you're going out to 25 front of the intersection. 25 the ditch and right here, so that -- that strip of land 42 (Pages 162 to 165) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 166 Page 168 1 in there. I'm not -- I'm not sure the dimension of the 1 that would put people in danger. Perhaps the mauka 2 land, but it's that -- this portion in here. 2 section of the field, as Mr. MacCluer suggested, would 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I think what you're saying 3 be more safe. 4 is you want to stake this boundary line and move it over 4 CHAIR CANNON: So where would you draw the top 5 parallel to something of this sort. And you say that 5 line, then, the north line? 6 whole area in there, that's what you are suggesting? 6 MEMBER MacCLUER: It's the bottom line. 7 That -- the ditch is up here? This is uphill, this is 7 MEMBER BRUCE: Makai line? 8 uphill here. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Yeah, that line there. You 9 MEMBER BERTRAM: Lowrie Ditch, down. 9 move it -- you would move it mauka, right? 10 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: All the way from the Lowrie 10 MEMBER BRUCE: I think we would have to check 11 Ditch, here, all the way down, straight like that. 11 with historic documents to see what is safe. 12 MEMBER MacCLUER: You can't -- 12 CHAIR CANNON: Doug, you want to -- 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I'm just asking what you 13 MEMBER MacCLUER: I would say that if it was 14 want. 14 moved from the makai side, right where the blue dots 15 MEMBER MacCLUER: You can't do -- 15 are, about another 50 feet up would be safe. 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Doug. 16 CHAIR CANNON: Is that right? 17 MEMBER MacCLUER: Having farmed that for over 17 MEMBER MacCLUER: That would be safe. 18 30 years, you can't. That white line going down to the 18 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second to the motion 19 reservoir is a ditch. And that's what fills the 19 to amend? Joe, okay. 20 reservoir. So you can take from there to the right 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Probably getting rid of 21 towards Haiku Town and develop that, but that white line 21 this here? Just go straight across? 22 is a -- is a water conveyance system. That could be 22 MEMBER MacCLUER: The access is at the bottom. 23 dangerous if it isn't fixed. At the bottom of that 23 CHAIR CANNON: So straight across. Cut off 24 pineapple field, when the reservoir fills up, about 50 24 that point. 25 feet into the pineapple field gets flooded. 25 MEMBER MacCLUER: That's the problem with that Page 167 Page 169 1 CHAIR CANNON: So that's the area you're 1 parcel, is the access is at the bottom below the houses 2 intending, Stan? 2 that sometimes gets flooded. But that -- that could be 3 MEMBER FRANCO: Yes. 3 mitigated with a -- with a elevated road. 4 CHAIR CANNON: So up to the ditch, that 4 CHAIR CANNON: As it's shown now, is it okay? 5 triangular piece there. Right there. Yeah. So that's 5 MEMBER MacCLUER: Yes. 6 a motion to amend? 6 CHAIR CANNON: Further discussion on the 7 MEMBER SKOG: Plus the bottom, right? 7 amendment? 8 CHAIR CANNON: Plus the bottom houses, too? 8 Yes, Lucienne. 9 MEMBER SUZUKI: One person, please. 9 MEMBER deNAIE: Could we see where the 10 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is where the ditch -- 10 proposed transit corridor might go in this area? 11 this is where the reservoir expands here when it fills 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Could you come out a little 12 up. 12 bit? What is this? 13 MEMBER MacCLUER: No. It goes all the way 13 CHAIR CANNON: That was an alternate route 14 into the pineapple field. 14 perhaps in the future, or an additional route perhaps in 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Here? 15 the future. 16 MEMBER MacCLUER: Yeah. 16 Lesley. 17 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, point of order. 17 MEMBER BRUCE: I will be supporting this 18 Please control the discussion during this meeting. 18 motion because I know Horizons School at times has been 19 CHAIR CANNON: Lesley. 19 looking for a place to expand and its back yard is close 20 MEMBER BRUCE: May I share -- Lesley Bruce 20 to where Stan is proposing. 21 from Hana. One time that reservoir's outlet gate was 21 Thank you. 22 frozen. And we had to swim under and put in dynamite 22 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 23 and blow up the gate so that the area wouldn't get 23 (Silence.) 24 flooded in my childhood. My father was working for East 24 CHAIR CANNON: All in favor of the motion to 25 Maui Irrigation Company. So that looks as if part of 25 amend? 43 (Pages 166 to 169) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 170 Page 172 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Is this to make it a 1 MEMBER SKOG: Just point of information. So 2 Service Center or Country Town? What is the boundary 2 we're -- on the map, it would change it from a blue, 3 line we're talking about now? 3 dark blue boundary to a yellow one? 4 MEMBER BRUCE: Would a school be appropriate 4 CHAIR CANNON: Correct. Other discussion? 5 in that place? 5 (Silence.) 6 CHAIR CANNON: Stan. 6 CHAIR CANNON: All in favor of the motion, 7 MEMBER FRANCO: One of our -- one of the 7 please raise your hand. Nineteen in favor. 8 things that -- being a principle of ours is to create 8 All opposed? One opposed. 9 towns. So it would be Country Town, to add -- oh. No, 9 Abstentions? Two abstentions. 10 it's Country Town. We want to make Haiku a Country Town 10 The motion carries. 11 like we have Paia, Makawao. So we've created more space 11 Anything more on Map N2? 12 for that town to grow into a Country Town. 12 Jeanne. 13 CHAIR CANNON: So that would -- that would 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Could I clarify something, 14 actually be another portion of the amendment, then, 14 please? That motion, was it to only expand the boundary 15 because it's -- right now, it's depicted as a Rural 15 or was it to expand and to create a Country Town in 16 Service Center. So you are also suggesting that becomes 16 Haiku? 17 Country Town? Okay. And is that okay with the 17 CHAIR CANNON: Both. 18 seconder? 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. I just want to 19 MEMBER BERTRAM: That was me. That was me. 19 clarify that. 20 MEMBER SKOG: Point of information. 20 CHAIR CANNON: Yeah, both. 21 CHAIR CANNON: Who was the seconder? Okay, 21 Jeanne. 22 thank you. 22 MEMBER SKOG: I want to go back to the area 23 MEMBER SKOG: Point of information. So from 23 above Upper Paia where the church and school are, again 24 the Planning Department, is that pretty synonymous, 24 with the concern that if the school or the church wanted 25 Country Town and Rural Service Center? 25 to do anything else, that it would be cumbersome with Page 171 Page 173 1 CHAIR CANNON: No. There's two descriptions 1 the way it would be currently configured. So I want to 2 in the matrix we were given. They're pretty different. 2 propose a motion that would give it more flexibility. 3 MEMBER VICENS: Very different. 3 So I think that would be rural. Because, right now, 4 CHAIR CANNON: One is like Keokea, one is like 4 it's -- it just would be considered Ag, is that correct? 5 Makawao. 5 CHAIR CANNON: John. 6 MR. HUNT: Rural center is more smaller and 6 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you Mr. Chairman. 7 the services are generally more limited, especially to 7 Mark, can you go to that area in the Community 8 the immediate area. 8 Plan? 9 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. So Country Town, expand 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Could I -- that would be 10 the uses that can go in there? 10 the Paia Elementary School site. 11 MR. HUNT: Correct. 11 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 12 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: It would also have sewage 12 The site is currently Public/Quasi-Public in 13 systems usually in -- Country Towns would have a sewage 13 the Community Plan. We don't view that it would be a 14 system. 14 challenge for the school site or the church to not be 15 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 15 included within a Rural Growth Boundary. 16 Yes, Lucienne. 16 MEMBER SKOG: What is the purple part? 17 MEMBER deNAIE: Well, Haiku doesn't have a 17 CHAIR CANNON: Public/Quasi-Public. 18 sewage system, but Country Town, the definition, it's 18 MEMBER deNAIE: No. That was the old Project 19 more self-sufficient than Rural Service Centers, more 19 District. 20 diversified goods and services, often contain civic and 20 MR. SUMMERS: The purple part was a Project 21 public uses, schools, parks, recreational facilities, 21 District. 22 primary employment opportunities, et cetera. So it 22 CHAIR CANNON: The blue? 23 seems fitting. 23 MR. SUMMERS: Right. And in lieu of that, the 24 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 24 idea was to focus residential expansion in Paia Town, 25 Yes, Jeanne. 25 makai portion of the town, in lieu of the upper portion, 44 (Pages 170 to 173) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 174 Page 176 1 since would you have got services and jobs in that 1 MEMBER BRUCE: I recollect -- Lesley Bruce 2 alternative location. 2 Hana. My recollection regarding this area, in the 3 MEMBER SKOG: So my question is, in the area 3 Community Plan, was to put stores on either side of 4 that is sort of blue within that purple, if -- let's say 4 Baldwin Avenue to support the school and the church. 5 the church decided to do some other type of activity 5 And a lot of people remember, a very excellent 6 that wasn't church-like, it was like a service to 6 elementary school there. And then have some kind of 7 community in some other way, or maybe they set up some 7 Project District town so that would be a cluster of 8 sort of commercial activity to support the -- the church 8 things that might be appropriate for people who want a 9 operations or something like that, would they -- or the 9 place to live and fit into what Jeanne is suggesting. 10 same with the school, would there be some challenge to 10 So I will support the motion. 11 them doing that? Or should we create like a rural area 11 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 12 within that to -- to facilitate that happening? 12 Warren Suzuki, then we'll move around the 13 CHAIR CANNON: Jeff. 13 room. 14 MR. HUNT: You're getting into almost zoning 14 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, I'm not gonna not 15 code interpretation. And I don't want to go there. And 15 talk about the fact that I have graduated Paia School. 16 I certainly don't want to make an interpretation. 16 But in any case, one of the things about Paia School -- 17 There's a good chance that if that use that you just 17 and I have a question for Planning staff -- is back when 18 described was ancillary to the school or the church, and 18 I went to school at Paia School, they had teachers' 19 the use remained the school or the church, that they 19 cottages on the property. And I -- they still maybe 20 would be allowed to do that. But that's not a 20 have some teachers' cottages, I haven't driven that area 21 determination. 21 for a long time. But I'm curious, would teachers' 22 MEMBER SKOG: It's not a -- okay. Then I want 22 cottages be a permitted use of the property? 23 to make a motion to make that area Rural. 23 CHAIR CANNON: John. 24 CHAIR CANNON: The blue area there, huh? 24 MR. SUMMERS: The thing is, teachers' 25 MEMBER SKOG: Yeah. Just because I have heard 25 cottages, that would be ancillary to the school use. Page 175 Page 177 1 of other things that they have tried to do in that area. 1 And the service center, as we participate it, 2 It's just a natural area for activity to the church, 2 would follow the boundaries of that Public/Quasi-Public, 3 it's still a vibrant parish and certainly the school is 3 Jeanne, just for clarification. 4 very active. 4 Go back to the Community Plan, Mark. 5 CHAIR CANNON: Do you mean Rural Service 5 We're following this boundary here. 6 Center? 6 And, Warren, yes, the teacher cottages would 7 MEMBER SKOG: No. Rural. 7 be secondary and accessory to principal use. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Rural is housing. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Warren Suzuki. 9 MEMBER SKOG: Rural Service Center, yes, then. 9 MEMBER SUZUKI: Just to clarify, looking at 10 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Is there a second to 10 the maps right now, it doesn't seem like the entire 11 that motion? Seconded by Stan. 11 church itself and the parking lot is included within the 12 Further discussion? 12 area. I think the intent is to have it designated, you 13 Stan. 13 know, as Jeanne had kind of indicated. And you got the 14 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 14 parking lot below, Dick. 15 I thank Jeanne for making this motion because 15 CHAIR CANNON: John. 16 Holy Rosary Church has been talking about expanding its 16 MR. SUMMERS: Perhaps it would be appropriate 17 properties there. If you don't know, Holy Rosary is a 17 to follow sort of that ravine, the upper edge. 18 major Damien site on Maui because they have a Damien 18 MEMBER SKOG: And also above. 19 statue there. A lot of people visit that place. Damien 19 CHAIR CANNON: Jeff. 20 is going to be canonized October 11th, becoming a saint. 20 MR. HUNT: We need to realize the limitations 21 There's going to be a lot of people going to that 21 of our excellent Geographic Information System, and 22 particular place. So there is already discussions about 22 sometimes the overlays and the layers that we place up 23 some expansion to that church site. So I appreciate the 23 there are not precise. 24 motion. 24 CHAIR CANNON: This is one of those cases. 25 CHAIR CANNON: Lesley. 25 MEMBER deNAIE: Okay. 45 (Pages 174 to 177) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 178 Page 180 1 CHAIR CANNON: Was the area closer to what was 1 And it just seems that to separate out this particular 2 shown on the aerial photograph as being developed 2 piece of land so the school -- everyone still has to 3 already? Yeah? That was a closer one? 3 drive or walk along Baldwin Avenue, they can't live near 4 Could you turn that back on, Mark, the aerial 4 it, or this church. It would seem more appropriate to 5 you had? 5 continue what you did in connecting, so it connects as 6 Yes, Wallette. 6 much as Paia, then, becomes kind of linear. But that 7 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: Wallette Pellegrino. 7 space -- I'm not saying it was perfect, but if it's 8 Also up there in Paia School is the Hawaiian 8 connected, perhaps people can live next to the school 9 language immersion program which feeds into Kalama 9 and next to their church and next to whatever ancillary 10 Intermediate and then up to the high school level. And 10 things could be there. 11 there may be occasion currently or in the future for 11 I know it's not in the motion, but I'm just 12 them to use the space, school space, for various 12 supporting the motion in that sense, that the more we 13 protocols, et cetera. So would that be considered 13 can get back to what had been there. The hospital was 14 ancillary to the educational components? 14 along Baldwin Avenue, we can see the sidewalk that goes 15 CHAIR CANNON: John. 15 all the way down. 16 MR. SUMMERS: Yes. Yes. 16 So that's it. 17 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: Okay. I just wanted to 17 CHAIR CANNON: Chubby. 18 share with you, because Warren brought up the teachers' 18 MEMBER VICENS: Chairman, the property on the 19 cottages, my mother lived in the teachers' cottages. 19 mauka side of that green strip, that grass strip that 20 That's where she met my father. 20 you see, that was kind of a no man's land maybe eight, 21 CHAIR CANNON: By the mango tree. 21 10 years ago. And the church came to HC&S and asked to 22 Warren Shibuya. 22 be able to utilize that property. And I don't know if 23 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 23 it's completed yet because it's kind of diocese thing 24 I just wanted to suggest a dark blue type 24 that's got to go to Honolulu and get approval. But they 25 border, which would be Rural Service Center designation 25 are, in fact -- they, in fact, included that in their Page 179 Page 181 1 as well as following the perimeter roads all around that 1 property now. The property adjacent to it is all cane. 2 area. And that would be generally the good description 2 So, you know, the plantation still is a viable entity, I 3 for Mark to follow. 3 would hope. 4 Thank you. 4 Thank you. 5 CHAIR CANNON: As Dick just outlined there, 5 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion of the motion? 6 did you see that? Right there. 6 Lesley. 7 Okay. They got it. 7 MEMBER BRUCE: Lesley Bruce, Hana. 8 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, you got to be 8 Just to clarify the water situation in that 9 careful. There's lands mauka of the church that may 9 neighborhood. The wells at Hamakuapoko, Maui High 10 indicate to be in cane that -- back when I went to 10 School, have a huge waterline that runs from where the 11 school, that was Holy Rosary School. But, you know, 11 school at Maui High was down to Mrs. Moody's house at 12 it's not -- you know, it might be church property, so 12 the intersection of the Kaheka Road. You can see it on 13 let's not just -- we can't just -- we were talking about 13 that map. So it's in that polygon on the lower 14 the perimeter road. We need to also recognize the 14 right-hand corner. And so there is a huge waterline 15 property line. 15 coming to that point. The water is platted. And Paia 16 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Understood. 16 didn't want it, so it's -- they said they could filter 17 Joe. 17 it and clean up the water. Just for a point. 18 MEMBER VICENS: Tom? 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let's vote on this, 19 CHAIR CANNON: Joe. 19 otherwise -- 20 MEMBER VICENS: Tom? 20 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor of the 21 MEMBER BERTRAM: I support this except for, 21 motion, which is to amend Map N2 to include the area you 22 you know, Paia traditionally was a very linear town. 22 see up there in blue -- 23 So, basically, it followed Baldwin Avenue right on down 23 MEMBER SKOG: Point of -- 24 straight to the ocean. There was Upper Paia and Lower 24 CHAIR CANNON: -- I think, plus -- 25 Paia. And there were homes and stuff near the school. 25 MEMBER SKOG: Point of order. I just want to 46 (Pages 178 to 181) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 182 Page 184 1 make, yeah -- 1 to make sure that we recognize that's on the official 2 CHAIR CANNON: Plus -- 2 version. 3 MEMBER SKOG: I don't think it's just the area 3 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. So, Mark, when you get a 4 in blue -- 4 chance, you can back up and zoom out, I suppose. 5 CHAIR CANNON: No. 5 MEMBER deNAIE: That was already there. 6 MEMBER SKOG: -- given what we've discussed. 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: It's not on this map. It's 7 CHAIR CANNON: Yeah, there. Where Dick is 7 not on this map. 8 pointing. 8 MEMBER SUZUKI: One at a time, please. 9 MEMBER SKOG: And, also, the mauka lands that 9 CHAIR CANNON: The area you're looking for is 10 Chubby referred to. 10 down by the ocean, Dick? 11 CHAIR CANNON: Those are there. That's in 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Just mauka of the highway, 12 blue. 12 in Paia. I believe it's the -- I may be wrong. 13 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. Then you're going to 13 MEMBER deNAIE: Next map. 14 clean up the edges up above? 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This -- this whole area and 15 CHAIR CANNON: Yeah. 15 this green area here, were those all on our map? 16 MEMBER SKOG: The jagged area won't be jagged 16 MEMBER deNAIE: Next map. 17 anymore, right, Mark? 17 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Yes, it is. 18 CHAIR CANNON: John says yes. 18 CHAIR CANNON: I remember discussing that -- 19 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's why. 20 CHAIR CANNON: Further discussion? 20 CHAIR CANNON: -- green area remaining green. 21 (Silence.) 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: No. It's not on the end -- 22 CHAIR CANNON: All in favor, say aye -- or 22 on Map 11, N1 map. 23 raise your hands, please. Nineteen in favor. 23 CHAIR CANNON: That's correct. Oh, it is. 24 All opposed? Zero opposed. 24 It's just on the very corner. 25 Any abstentions? Four abstentions. 25 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. This -- this Page 183 Page 185 1 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair? 1 boundary line has changed. 2 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 2 CHAIR CANNON: It was to go all the way 3 MEMBER SUZUKI: Call for the question on the 3 through there. 4 main motion. 4 Lesley. 5 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. All those in favor of 5 MEMBER BRUCE: I'm not sure which map it is. 6 the main motion, which is to accept the Map N2 with 6 I want to be sure the wetlands get included as to 7 these changes that we made, please raise your hand. 22 7 Pu'unene. 8 in favor. 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This -- 9 All opposed? Zero. 9 CHAIR CANNON: Yeah. That's what that green 10 Any abstentions? One abstention. 10 area is. 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Point of information. 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This green area should be 12 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 12 -- it's not all on here. 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The map that we have in 13 MEMBER BRUCE: That's the -- 14 front of us was -- there was a slight change on the one 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Put on N1, then. 15 up above. I just want to bring that to our attention, 15 Okay. 16 we should be aware of it. The N2 map. 16 CHAIR CANNON: N1? 17 Mark, N2 map of the service center. The whole 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: N1 next, which is really 18 area, in other words. 18 Spreckelsville, continuation of Paia area. 19 CHAIR CANNON: What was your point, Dick? 19 MR. KING: Is N2 done? 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I know you passed the whole 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: N2 is pau. 21 thing. And I wanna clarify. It's something that we 21 CHAIR CANNON: So are you gonna to describe 22 voted on just now, the map up on the board here had 22 N1, Dick? 23 difference from the map on our thing here. And that was 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yes. I'll try to do that. 24 the area to the west of Paia Town, drainage area along 24 N1 is Spreckelsville/airport area. We're going to 25 the Hana Highway that was added on there. And -- I want 25 particularly concentrate right now on the Spreckelsville 47 (Pages 182 to 185) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 186 Page 188 1 side of it. There are no suggested -- no 1 And there's a small Residential zone up here that's been 2 recommendations for change in this area. 2 included in here. And I would only question whether 3 Well, the one exception that I was just trying 3 that should be Urban Growth -- or Rural Growth Boundary 4 to point out and that was over here in Paia. This -- 4 there along the ocean. 5 this small green area has -- it's that shows only on the 5 CHAIR CANNON: Mark, could you turn on the 6 N2 map should come down like this. It's a larger area 6 transit map? 7 now coming all the way down to here, east -- west of 7 MR. KING: Yes. 8 Paia Town. Yeah, that was the change. Right there. 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is the -- the yellow 9 This area here should now be carried over onto N1 map. 9 lines -- yellow-green lines are the proposed -- they 10 And then this area, I believe, is a cultural site, here 10 came out of the IRC on transit. Come out of the airport 11 in the middle of the cane field, a heiau site there. 11 and go along this route here. That's one transit 12 CHAIR CANNON: So N1 has to be corrected. 12 corridor. The second one, which I just want to call to 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: To reflect this rectangle 13 your attention, which was looked at by the Planning 14 here. 14 Commission just this week, is a road that would go from 15 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Got that, Mark? 15 the airport, here, across Hana Highway, here, go behind 16 MR. MICHAELSON: I got it. 16 Lowe's and behind -- between Walmart and the -- between 17 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. 17 Walmart here and the motorcycle place here. And it 18 MR. KING: It was corrected after the map was 18 would intersect Dairy Road approximately here. And that 19 printed. 19 would become the main road where people from Lahaina, 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's all on the right 20 going to the airport, would come and go like that along 21 side of that map. On the left side, the airport, 21 that road, and not go along Dairy Road anymore. And 22 obviously now we're getting into the Kahului area. And 22 this is a separate transit road corridor that is being 23 let's just save those comments. Let's do -- just take 23 proposed by the IRC. 24 care of the right side. Are there any -- I would say 24 CHAIR CANNON: Susan. 25 anything from the middle of that map to the right, vote 25 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Are you done? Page 187 Page 189 1 on that, then -- want to do the whole map? Okay. Then 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. 2 I'll describe the whole map. 2 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Can you show me where Hansen 3 Okay. The airport zone is -- obviously, the 3 Road intersects with Pulehu Road on the map? 4 airport runways are shown. Then the Urban Growth 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Right here. 5 Boundary around it is quite large and goes out. And 5 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Mark? 6 that's something I just want to call to your attention. 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Right here. Okay. Can you 7 And then when you get closer to the -- to what's -- the 7 show me where the old hospital, Pu'unene Hospital is? 8 Walmart area there, you'll notice that -- let me show 8 Would it be right there? Okay. 9 you on this map here. This area here is the Maui 9 I have a letter here, dated January 29, 2009. 10 Business Park that's been approved by the Council and 10 It was addressed to Mr. Hunt. It is from a consultant, 11 Land Use Commission. And here is Home Depot, Walmart. 11 Chris Hart, on behalf of Mr. Freitas, Jack Freitas. And 12 Lowe's is over here. This will be a quite large 12 it's a request for inclusion within the Urban Growth 13 expansion of the area over in this direction here that's 13 Boundaries. You know, when we're looking at these Urban 14 already been approved. And it goes out here to the Hana 14 Growth Boundaries, what I've noticed is we really have 15 Highway. This is the road that leads up to Kula, the 15 been focused on Residential. But when it came to 16 Omaopio Road. And it's proposed that this road be cut 16 Commercial, or whether it's Light Industrial or Heavy, 17 at this point -- what's that? 17 we haven't really had a lot of discussion. To be 18 MEMBER MOIKEHA: It says it's Pulehu. 18 consistent, what we did out on Mokulele, with Pu'unene 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I'm sorry. Pulehu Road 19 Urban, that's all Industrial, Commercial -- and that's 20 that goes up the hill. And that road would no longer go 20 reflected on your Maalaea C4 map. I would like to have 21 into the Hana Highway here, but, rather, people coming 21 this incorporated into an Urban boundary. That whole 22 downhill would either have to go left or right at Hansen 22 parcel, the whole parcel of 12.778 acres. It was titled 23 Road over here. That road would no longer continue into 23 as a Pu'unene Baseyard Project site. 24 that. At least that's the plan. Costco is over here. 24 And I'm reading these notes from this letter. 25 Kealia Pond here. And Kanaha Beach Park along here. 25 I don't think we received this as a GPAC Members. If we 48 (Pages 186 to 189) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 190 Page 192 1 did, I didn't find it. And I actually got this from the 1 before the Planning Commission, too, for Heavy 2 owners. 2 Industrial. 3 It is Ag District, State Land Use. In the 3 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion on the motion? 4 Wailuku Community Plan it is Light Industrial 4 Yes, Lesley. 5 designated. The zoning designation is Ag. They are 5 MEMBER BRUCE: Lesley Bruce, Hana. 6 requesting for growth boundary for -- from Light 6 It's not clear to me where the boundaries are. 7 Industrial to Heavy Industrial. 7 Jack and Suzanne Freitas also own the composting 8 Background on this, this was the Pu'unene 8 operation that's adjacent to that hospital site. 9 Hospital, constructed in approximately 1913. Hawaii 9 MEMBER VICENS: No. 10 became a state in 1959, the first Hawaiian Land Use Act 10 MEMBER MOIKEHA: No. 11 was Act 187, was enacted in 1961. While the Land Use 11 CHAIR CANNON: So you're wondering if the 12 designation of a project site may have been agricultural 12 compost is on the same site that's shown in purple 13 in the past, the project site has been in Urban use for 13 there? 14 approximately 96 years. And I think before the 14 MEMBER BRUCE: No. Does that include a 15 Freitases purchased this parcel with the 12 -- 15 compost site, the second part of the -- 16 approximately 12 acres, that baseyard, the hospital was 16 MEMBER VICENS: Mr. Chairman? 17 being leased out to individuals for, you know, business 17 MEMBER BRUCE: -- experimental use by the 18 use, commercial use. 18 plantation, does it overlap the plantation experiments, 19 So to me, it supports that it does have Urban 19 HC&S experiments? 20 use. I think it's appropriate. I -- they are friends 20 MEMBER VICENS: Mr. Chairman? 21 of mine. I have not discussed with Suzanne whether or 21 CHAIR CANNON: Chubby. 22 not, you know, I would propose this on their behalf. I 22 MEMBER VICENS: Mr. Chairman, Chubby Vicens. 23 did not do that. But I think it's consistent with what 23 The composting plant next door is owned by -- used to be 24 we're trying to do when you call out things for 24 owned by Decoitte and another partner. Decoitte has 25 commercial, whether it's Light or Heavy Industrial. And 25 since left and the other partner is still doing that Page 191 Page 193 1 we did that on Mokulele. So I would like to propose 1 particular work. The Freitases have no ownership in 2 that as a motion. 2 that particular -- in that particular property. 3 MEMBER VICENS: Second. 3 But I will just call your attention to 4 MEMBER SKOG: Second. 4 directly across the street, where you see kind of a 5 CHAIR CANNON: Who seconded? Chubby. 5 circular motion at Pulehu and Hansen Road -- maybe, 6 Further discussion? 6 Dick, you can put the pointer on the corner. 7 (Silence.) 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Which corner? 8 CHAIR CANNON: So you are including this, is 8 MEMBER VICENS: Just right -- come back to 9 it contiguous with the -- where the boundary is now? 9 your right. Right there. Right there. On the makai 10 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I have a map. I will give it 10 side of Hansen Road. Right there. 11 to Mark. 11 One of the things that has been talked about 12 CHAIR CANNON: So it would be an island away 12 throughout the several years as a result of Maui 13 from the other Urban Growth Boundaries. 13 Business Park is that the County is looking for sewer 14 MEMBER MOIKEHA: They're asking for their 14 treatment lands. And we have agreed -- and "we" meaning 15 portion that they own, which is 12.77. I don't know who 15 they, A&B -- has agreed in principle that they would 16 else -- how big that parcel is or who else owns the 16 supply land outside of the tsunami zone. And this is an 17 rest. 17 area that they are considering. 18 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. So the motion is to make 18 I might also add that if you go up above 19 an Urban Growth Boundary around that purple area at the 19 Hansen Road, you'll have the -- the County refuse 20 junction of Pulehu and Hansen Road? 20 facility. And across the street from the County refuse 21 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Again, that's for industrial, 21 facility would be the -- would be MECO's industrial 22 commercial type use. 22 area. 23 CHAIR CANNON: For Light Industrial. Okay. 23 At one time, our Mayor, Linda Lingle, was 24 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Well, I should also add they 24 trying to create an enterprise zone. And the enterprise 25 are seeking a Special Use Permit, I think, in March, 25 zone would have run from the MECO plant all the way down 49 (Pages 190 to 193) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 194 Page 196 1 to Hansen Road on the left and from the County dump all 1 CHAIR CANNON: Just that purple plot which is 2 the way down to Hansen Road on the right. So create a 2 not in the present Urban Growth Boundary. Yeah, just 3 -- kind of area where noxious and non-noxious uses would 3 around that one purple plot. That one there. 4 be, would be out of the way surrounded by plantation. 4 Any further discussion on the motion? 5 And I think what is happening with the corner over 5 Yes, John. 6 there, it's falling in line with what the plan 6 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: John from Hana. 7 originally set forth a long time ago. So -- 7 I would like to ask the Planning staff if they 8 And Susan is right. I think March 10th, they 8 have any comments on this proposal? 9 go before the Planning Commission for special use or 9 CHAIR CANNON: John. 10 conditions of use permit. 10 MR. SUMMERS: We have no objections to 11 Thank you. 11 including that within the Urban Growth Boundary. 12 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion on the motion? 12 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 13 Joe. 13 Hans. 14 MEMBER BERTRAM: Just a quick question. So 14 MEMBER MICHEL: I was wondering how the mass 15 the Urban Growth Boundary that encompasses now the 15 transit going to come from Lahaina through these since 16 proposed A&B thing and then also the area just to the 16 you gonna make a lot of changes. Would you put it on 17 right or to the left of the airport, so all of that will 17 the map, the picture we had before, the mass transit 18 be urbanized as well? 18 corridor? 19 CHAIR CANNON: The motion is to urbanize the 19 CHAIR CANNON: Oh. 20 purple section. 20 MEMBER MICHEL: Could you show again so we 21 MEMBER BERTRAM: I know. But the question -- 21 more or less know how it's going to work together? 22 I'm just -- and just to get to that, then, so all this 22 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Here's the airport up 23 area that is now within that is also gone be urbanized, 23 there. 24 right? I mean, on the map that we're looking at, if -- 24 CHAIR CANNON: So it doesn't really affect the 25 yeah. Okay. Thank you. Right. So all of that is 25 little purple area we're talking about right now. Page 195 Page 197 1 gonna be urbanized as well, right? I mean, that's what 1 MEMBER MICHEL: Thank you. 2 the proposal is, although there is no proposals to 2 CHAIR CANNON: Any more discussion on the 3 actually build in that area, it would be urbanized. Is 3 motion? 4 that a yes? Okay. Thank you. All right. 4 Jeanne. 5 So I just -- I have a problem with would we be 5 MEMBER SKOG: I thank Susan for bringing this 6 continuing to expand the Urban Growth area and even that 6 up because it does bring up another thing, that -- so 7 to me is an expansion that I guess we'll have to fill in 7 that whole area in there is part of the landfill, if you 8 sooner or later. But Kahului already has expanded quite 8 go back to the other aerial. 9 a ways. And we really need to look at infilling Kahului 9 CHAIR CANNON: The landfill is there where the 10 and redeveloping it into actual town rather than the 10 red dot is now. 11 land uses that we're looking at, Light Industrial, 11 MEMBER SKOG: Not the part that Susan was -- 12 Industrial, those types of things. So I would prefer 12 but what I was going to suggest, I think -- isn't 13 not to even expand it that far and look at how we can 13 Pacific Biodiesel in that landfill -- I mean in that 14 better use the land that we have there. And I think 14 area as well as Pacific Biodiesel's plant? 15 that at least the project sounds like it's on its way 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's MECO. 16 already by the time -- at this point. And it actually 16 MEMBER SKOG: I thought it was next to the 17 gets adopted, we're talking two or three or four years 17 landfill. 18 down the road. Hopefully, they would have already been 18 MEMBER VICENS: Across the street. 19 established whatever, you know, entitlements that 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is Maui Electric here. 20 they're going to be getting. So I just think it's 20 MEMBER SKOG: But the -- Pacific Biodiesel 21 probably not necessary. So I won't be voting for it. 21 also has operations, I think, near there. And from our 22 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. You may -- you may want 22 expirations on municipal solid waste and trying to turn 23 to make a motion after this one. This one is for 23 that to waste to energy and that kind of stuff, my 24 that -- 24 understanding is that, you know, whatever company, you 25 MEMBER BERTRAM: I know. 25 know, tries to do that, they really need the proximity 50 (Pages 194 to 197) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 198 Page 200 1 to the landfill. And so -- 1 this simply because I agree with the argument that there 2 CHAIR CANNON: Does this -- 2 are a number of uses in that area that are Industrial. 3 MEMBER SKOG: I want to propose -- I'm not 3 I've gone there and gotten compost. And it is a busy 4 sure if I want to do this separate. Maybe I will do it 4 little corner there. And especially if Pulehu Road is 5 as a separate -- as a separate -- 5 going to end and Hansen Road is going to be the primary, 6 CHAIR CANNON: They're pretty separate. 6 you know, route through there, I imagine Hansen Road is 7 MEMBER SKOG: Well -- 7 going to get a little bit bigger. So that might be 8 CHAIR CANNON: Quite a ways away. 8 appropriate, too. So I'm going to be supporting the 9 MEMBER SKOG: That whole part is landfill, but 9 motion. 10 I will do it as a separate one. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Chubby, have you spoken before? 11 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Anything more on this 11 MEMBER VICENS: Yeah. One last comment on 12 motion? 12 that Hansen Road from Pulelehua and Hansen going east, 13 Dick. 13 if you will. That particular road is planned to be 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: My only concern is we have 14 taken out. So you'll come around Hana Highway and go 15 a tremendous amount of Industrial land that has not yet 15 above the proposed project that you're talking about 16 been developed. This whole business park area. Here's 16 now, and then it will swing back into Pulehu Road. So 17 Costco over here. This land behind Costco has got 17 the corner between Pulehu and Hansen and Hana Highway 18 roughly 30 acres. Another 130 acres of Industrial land 18 will become a quiet highway. It will become a private 19 that's already been set aside here behind Walmart, et 19 road in the future. So the connection from Hana Highway 20 cetera. Plus, the sugar mill has a lot of Industrial 20 with, if you will, the new Hansen bypass, coming into 21 land here that I don't think has been yet developed to 21 Pulehu, would change the dynamics of that area. So 22 the degree it has. I'm a little concerned about putting 22 you'll -- you're going to end up with an Industrial use, 23 that much -- as Joe commented, that much Industrial 23 anyway. 24 lands in addition now over here as well. So I'm going 24 Thank you. 25 to vote against this. 25 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion on the motion? Page 199 Page 201 1 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 1 (Silence.) 2 Lucienne. 2 CHAIR CANNON: All in favor of adding that 3 MEMBER deNAIE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 3 purple area at Hansen and Pulehu Roads with an Urban 4 This is an interesting proposition. I 4 Growth Boundary, please raise your hand. One more time. 5 appreciate that Chubby explained about the possibility 5 Fifteen in favor. 6 of having the new sewage treatment plant here. And, of 6 All opposed? Four opposed. 7 course, what you would want is places that could then 7 Abstentions? Four abstentions. 8 utilize the reclaimed water. And those would be either 8 The motion carries. 9 agriculture or landscaping or, you know, green spaces. 9 Anything more on Map N1? 10 And so we want to make sure that -- what kind of 10 Lesley. 11 planning we do -- I know the composting does use water 11 MEMBER BRUCE: Lesley Bruce, Hana. 12 and they could possibly use R-2 water. 12 I would like the General Plan map to reflect 13 But I agree with Joe that we've kind of 13 the wetlands near the former Pu'unene which is just 14 adopted the old model of we just have all the industry 14 makai of the Old Sunny Side Road. And it's about on a V 15 in one place, then all the housing in another place and 15 line to the little reef where you see Baby Beach and 16 then somehow everybody just drives from one to the 16 Spreckelsville. If you go mauka from there -- 17 other. I would like to see something -- I don't know if 17 MEMBER deNAIE: Further over, right. 18 we can do it at this level -- it may have to be done at 18 MEMBER BRUCE: Dip in the land next to Sunny 19 the Community Plan level -- that kind of brings in the 19 Side Road, which is now a hole in the ground. It used 20 Industrial so that it kind of connects to the housing 20 to be Pu'unene and the pu'u was removed to make NASKA 21 and things like the sewage treatment plant. I would 21 Naval Air Station during the war. And just mauka of 22 love to see a sewage treatment plant that wasn't a big, 22 that, you will see some water. If you go up there, 23 smelly sewage treatment plant but was more these ponds 23 you'll see lots of stilts and things. The plantation 24 with digesters and so forth and so on. 24 uses it partly as a reservoir. But that is a 25 Anyway, I think I'm going to be supporting 25 traditional wetlands area. I don't know if you can find 51 (Pages 198 to 201) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 202 Page 204 1 it by my description. 1 Any ab -- oh, two opposed. Did you raise your 2 CHAIR CANNON: I think that would be on a 2 hand, Susan? 3 different map, right? 3 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Yeah. 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yes. 4 CHAIR CANNON: Two opposed. 5 MEMBER BRUCE: It's on this map. 5 Abstentions? One, two -- two abstentions. 6 CHAIR CANNON: Further discussion on N1? 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Three abstentions. 7 Stan. 7 CHAIR CANNON: Three. The motion carries. 8 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 8 That right there, that just changed to Rural, Rural 9 Just an explanation, because I'm real curious 9 Residential, RR. 10 about it. The beach park, there's looks like a 10 Dick. 11 Residential -- some kind of designation that says 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. The question I have 12 Kahului there on the top. What is that? I have no idea 12 for staff is you left the -- the dump, Central Maui dump 13 what that is. 13 as well as the future power plant out of any 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That was Spreckelsville, 14 designations. Should those be Urban boundaries around 15 the houses along the ocean. The old road there -- 15 those? They're fixed as urban type use, just like the 16 what's the road there, along old Stable Road. Here's 16 Pu'unene area is. 17 Stable Road, leaves Hana Highway here and goes along 17 MEMBER VICENS: I think they're 18 here. These are houses that are still remaining after 18 Public/Quasi-Public. 19 the runway took these houses out here. There were some 19 MEMBER deNAIE: Yeah, I think they're public. 20 houses here. 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: They're Public/Quasi-Public 21 CHAIR CANNON: So now that has an Urban 21 but not the old power plant. The old power plant is 22 boundary around it? 22 Industrial zoned. I think that -- it will be sizable 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. And the suggestion I 23 and have quite a bit of effect. Should it be Urban? 24 made is should this be Rural as opposed to Urban. That 24 CHAIR CANNON: John. 25 was the question I asked. 25 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Page 203 Page 205 1 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 1 Yes, we would support that. Yes, we would 2 MEMBER deNAIE: I would like to make a motion 2 support that. 3 that we accept the whole map as already amended. I 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I would like to make a 4 don't think anyone has made that motion yet. So I think 4 motion, then, if we go up to Pulehu Road, that both the 5 we should be rolling in that direction. 5 dump area, solid waste dump, as well as the power plant 6 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 6 across the street be put into Urban zones, Urban Growth 7 MEMBER VICENS: Yes. 7 Boundaries. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Chubby. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 9 Further discussion? 9 MEMBER SKOG: Second. 10 Dick. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Jeanne. 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. I think that this 11 Further discussion? 12 area seems to me to be a Rural Residential area. That's 12 Yes, Jeff. 13 all it is here. It's near the Urban area, but it's 13 MR. HUNT: As John indicated, we're not 14 still Rural Residential area. And probably 14 against that, but you should just be informed that the 15 Spreckelsville itself, this area we're in right now, is 15 process right now for the landfill is it requires 16 more Rural Residential and not an Urban area. I make a 16 special permits. And that gets a great deal of review 17 motion just that this area be declared Rural Residential 17 to the community. If you make it an Urban area and the 18 here along the ocean. 18 Land Use Commission changes it to Urban and the County 19 CHAIR CANNON: The Stable Road area. Is there 19 changes it to some kind of Industrial, it does remove 20 a second? Seconded by Lucienne. 20 that layer of review. So I'm not advocating one way or 21 Further discussion? 21 another. In some ways, it would be a benefit to remove 22 (Silence.) 22 that layer of review because it would expedite their 23 CHAIR CANNON: All in favor, raise your hands, 23 permitting. On the other hand, the argument would be 24 please. Eighteen in favor. 24 that -- would be how much oversight of the operations. 25 All opposed? One opposed. 25 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 52 (Pages 202 to 205) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 206 Page 208 1 MEMBER deNAIE: I think Chubby was first. 1 use permits. Again, you have three layers of 2 MEMBER VICENS: Go ahead. 2 entitlements. If you put it in Urban Growth Boundary 3 MEMBER deNAIE: Point of information. I'm not 3 and we went to the State and they put it in Urban, you 4 sure if those two areas are actually on the physical 4 would put some kind of zoning and Community Plan that 5 printed map that we have. It sort of stops by, it looks 5 made it all Urban, then they conceivably could be 6 likes, Ameron there. 6 permitted outright as an Industrial use. 7 MEMBER VICENS: That's where it is. 7 MEMBER VICENS: So as a follow-up to that 8 MEMBER deNAIE: No. But, see, our map only 8 question, is it easier for the County of Maui to have 9 shows a part of that area. So where is the power plant? 9 one kind of designation as opposed to another? 10 Is it right above there? 10 MR. HUNT: Uses that are -- 11 MEMBER VICENS: Across the street, right. 11 CHAIR CANNON: Go ahead, Jeff. 12 Right there. 12 MR. HUNT: Uses that are permitted outright 13 MEMBER deNAIE: That's not on our map right 13 are far easier to get through the permitting process. 14 now. 14 MEMBER VICENS: Thank you very much. 15 MEMBER VICENS: Right there. 15 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Vice-Chair. 16 MEMBER deNAIE: Just point of information. 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: It seems that there is some 17 That is not on the map that we were physically looking 17 confusion. I don't think we're in a position where we 18 at -- 18 can say what's the best position for the County. I 19 MEMBER VICENS: That's correct. 19 would like to almost -- I would like to withdraw the 20 MEMBER deNAIE: -- in that discussion. 20 motion and just ask that the County, in its 21 Also, I want to bring up that, you know, we 21 recommendation to the Planning Commission, find out what 22 have an area of Spreckelsville, actually across the 22 would be the most appropriate thing for the public in 23 street from where we are, that has ag lots, and, yet, 23 both these two sites and take it from there, rather than 24 it's being designated as Rural -- I mean, as Urban. Is 24 us be forced into making a decision. Some are not quite 25 that consistent, or do we want to have Spreckelsville in 25 sure what the best methods would be, so I would like to Page 207 Page 209 1 any future that might be here more of a -- like a Rural 1 withdraw my motion. 2 Residential? 2 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. We're back on N1. Back 3 MEMBER SKOG: Point of order, Mr. Chair. I 3 up a little bit. 4 think there's a motion to do with the urbanization -- 4 Dick, could you take the Chair? I want to 5 Urban designation for the power plant and the sewage 5 bring up something. 6 treatment. 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Please do. 7 CHAIR CANNON: There is. So we should speak 7 CHAIR CANNON: Mark, could you put on the 8 to that motion. 8 transit map one more time? 9 Any further discussion on that motion? 9 The Transit Committee envisioned the main hub 10 Chubby. 10 for the whole system across the street from the existing 11 MEMBER VICENS: Chubby Vicens. 11 mill in what is now cane field, or used to be. I think 12 My only concern is that within the confines of 12 it's still cane field, right there. And I think that 13 the County refuse is Ameron who has got a chlorine 13 would be appropriate to be in an Urban Growth area, 14 permit. So I don't know how you -- maybe this is for 14 especially since transit-oriented developments, such as, 15 staff or Jeff to answer, but as land is, as rock is 15 you know, an old folks home or day care centers and the 16 being expelled from the area and it leaves a void, the 16 like, would be very appropriate around a central transit 17 County has, over the many years, followed behind, and 17 hub. So I would make a motion to include that area 18 this is where the landfills take place. So I would 18 within the Urban Growth Boundaries if -- if -- 19 assume that the County part of it would be 19 contingent upon the -- the Committee approving -- the 20 Public/Quasi-Public. I'm not sure how the Department of 20 Transit investigate the community's routes and there 21 Planning treats the quarries. I know they have a 21 being a central hub there. If there is no central hub 22 Special Use or Conditional Use Permit, but is that Urban 22 there, then that could be just like it is now, without 23 or is that some other designation? That's a question. 23 any urbanization around it. But if it is, if it does 24 CHAIR CANNON: Jeff. 24 become the central hub, then it needs to be within the 25 MR. HUNT: They have several permits, special 25 Urban Growth Boundaries. So I would put an area -- I'm 53 (Pages 206 to 209) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 210 Page 212 1 not sure what the size of that -- Pu'unene on the right 1 Maui Electric part. 2 there, where the mill is, but maybe half that size. So 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: It's up here. 3 I make that motion. 3 MEMBER deNAIE: It's not on this map. 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Do we have a second 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: There it is. 5 on that motion? 5 MEMBER SKOG: So I don't know is what to -- 6 MEMBER deNAIE: Second. 6 what the boundary would be on the -- yeah. Would it be 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Lucienne. 7 the part without the County or would it include the 8 Any discussion? 8 County in my motion or what? 9 MEMBER deNAIE: Let's see where it is. 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Could I suggest perhaps 10 MEMBER BERTRAM: I would be absolutely against 10 that that's what the -- what I recommended to them, they 11 this motion. I think we could just move the central hub 11 decide what the exact boundaries should be, they know 12 into the Urban Growth Boundary. We keep wanting to 12 what they may want for the increase, and they recommend 13 expand this Urban Growth Boundary further and further 13 that to the Planning Commission, rather than us trying 14 out. And every time we put even a little island of it 14 to figure it out exactly today. They are not making -- 15 here and there, it tends to then just keep moving it 15 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. So can my motion be that 16 out. And we have already sprawled. Coming in every 16 that be common Urban Growth Boundary and the boundaries 17 time on the plane, you can see how far we've gone into 17 be determined by the Planning Commission -- Planning 18 the Central Valley. So it seemed to make more sense to 18 Department? 19 put the central hub, since we're just kind of imagining 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That would be one way of 20 it right now, into the Urban Growth Boundary. They have 20 doing it. The other way would be to leave it neutral at 21 this whole new Light Industrial area that A&B is going 21 this point and let them make a recommendation what they 22 to be putting in right along that corridor. Just put it 22 think exactly should be done in that area and they can 23 in there. It's just a little bit of a little backward 23 recommend an Urban Growth Boundary. That gives me more 24 thing into there, but let's keep the boundaries where 24 flexibility to -- but that's your motion. 25 they are. I don't just want to keep going out and out 25 MEMBER SKOG: Yeah. No, I understand that. Page 211 Page 213 1 and out. And it just seems to go against what we 1 So, Planning Department, if -- if you did do some kind 2 actually intended. 2 of Urban Growth Boundary in that area, and I realize 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Anyone else? 3 that it would be good to get your feedback on that, 4 CHAIR CANNON: Chair? I would like to -- 4 would it in fact facilitate commercial activity to do 5 could you turn on the route one more time, please, Mark? 5 that work in that area? 6 Okay. I would agree with Joe and I'll withdraw my 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Jeff. 7 motion. The hub would be moved and put in that area 7 MR. HUNT: Yes, I think it would. 8 there. 8 MEMBER SKOG: So that's my motion. So we 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I would add, just for 9 would defer to you on the precise boundaries, but I 10 information, I believe this spot here is -- MEO is now 10 would like to propose an Urban Growth area in that area. 11 building its transportation. So it would be consistent 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Both the power plant and 12 to have a hub in proximity to that. 12 the -- 13 Anybody else? 13 MEMBER SKOG: Yes. 14 Jeanne. 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: So the motion, as I 15 MEMBER SKOG: I want to go back to that area 15 understand it, is to create an Urban Growth Boundary 16 where the solid waste is. Okay. And I'm trying to 16 around the power plant, then a less clear, but one to be 17 understand what the staff is going to do. Because I -- 17 defined, area by the County in this area around the 18 I really think that the County is gonna move toward 18 solid waste area that would allow for energy conversion 19 municipal -- I mean a waste to energy. And I want to 19 activities as well, is that correct? 20 facilitate that happening. And I know that proximity to 20 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Second. 21 municipal solid waste is going to be a really important 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Susan seconds. 22 part of that. And I believe that the -- the direction 22 MEMBER SKOG: It should encompass like Pacific 23 is toward contracting out for that waste to energy 23 Biodiesel. That's their -- 24 activity to happen. So what I want to propose is a 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Any energy activity. Okay. 25 motion to include that area within Urban, including the 25 Any comments, questions? 54 (Pages 210 to 213) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 214 Page 216 1 (Silence.) 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: All those opposed, please 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay, call for the 2 raise your hands. Three opposed. 3 question. All in favor? 3 Those abstaining, please? Two. 4 MR. HUNT: One more time. Sorry. 4 18-3-2, motion passes. 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: 20. 5 I would like to turn the mike back over to the 6 All opposed? 6 Chair, Tom. 7 MEMBER VICENS: How many for? 7 Do we take a break? Do we take a break? 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Opposed, one. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. We need to take a break 9 Anybody abstaining? One, two, three, four 9 for the stenographer, 10-minute recess. 10 abstaining. 10 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Thank you. 11 Chubby, 21 and 4. 11 (Recess, 3:35 p.m. to 3:50 p.m.) 12 Those abstaining, raise your hands. One, two, 12 CHAIR CANNON: Call the meeting back to order. 13 three, four. 13 Stacie. 14 MEMBER VICENS: How many were for? 14 MEMBER THORLAKSON: Thank you, Chair. 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Nineteen, I think. How 15 In lieu of the time, it's 4:00, and because 16 many people in favor? 16 I'm a planner, I would like to plan and figure out -- 17 MR. HUNT: I would suggest we take the vote 17 and correct me if I'm wrong, but we've got four maps, we 18 again. I don't think it will matter, but it's not 18 have to go back to the West Maui, we've got Hazards, 19 accurate. 19 Harbors and Airports, minutes, we got to have an overall 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. All in favor, please 20 vote and the introduction. And I'm concerned. So can 21 raise your hands. All in favor. 21 we -- and I'm not sure how many people are going to stay 22 MR. HUNT: Eighteen. 22 for how much longer. I think we need to kind of be 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Eighteen in favor. 23 cognizant of all of this. And, also, hold our comments 24 All opposed? One. Two. 24 down. 25 MEMBER deNAIE: I'm going to join with Joe. 25 So, Chair, as you're the leader, could you Page 215 Page 217 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Two opposed. 1 maybe give me some sights on when you think we're gonna 2 All abstaining? 2 be done and how this is gonna move along? 3 Eighteen to three. Thank you. Okay. 3 CHAIR CANNON: As you mentioned, we have a lot 4 I would like to turn this -- we still are on 4 to go through. And I think there is even more than what 5 the main motion now. 5 you mentioned. I have no idea how long it will take. 6 MEMBER deNAIE: Call for the question. 6 MEMBER MOIKEHA: So let's get started. 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Call for the question. 7 CHAIR CANNON: I think your point is 8 MEMBER SUZUKI: Call for the question, 8 well-taken, though, to try to keep our comments short, 9 Mr. Chair. 9 to the point and we move forward. 10 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yes. Okay. All in favor 10 Dick. 11 of the main motion now, to accept this map with the 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. The next map is C1. 12 changes, N1, with the changes that were amended. All in 12 There were no recommendations for any changes in that 13 favor, please raise your hands. 13 area. It's Kahakuloa down to Waihee residential on the 14 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: What about 14 right, along that windy road. 15 Spreckelsville? 15 Warren. 16 MEMBER VICENS: That was part of it. 16 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair? 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: All the changes that were 17 CHAIR CANNON: Warren. 18 made. 18 MEMBER SUZUKI: Move to accept the map as 19 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: What was made to 19 presented. 20 Spreckelsville? 20 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Spreckelsville was the 21 MEMBER deNAIE: Second. 22 Rural area. 22 CHAIR CANNON: Who was seconding? Lucienne. 23 MEMBER SUZUKI: Call for the question. 23 Discussion on accepting Map C1? 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Quiet, everybody. 24 MEMBER FRANCO: Call for the question. 25 MR. HUNT: Eighteen. 25 MEMBER FILIMOE'ATU: Right. 55 (Pages 214 to 217) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 218 Page 220 1 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Move on. 1 lower right-hand corner of the map where it says "draft 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: We want to hurry. 2 GPAC product," just to the left of that, you'll see the 3 MEMBER VICENS: Call for the question. 3 word "Kahului Urban." That Kahului Urban is on the MCC 4 CHAIR CANNON: Everyone had time to find the 4 campus. 5 map? 5 What we did do is draw Urban Growth Boundaries 6 All those in favor of the motion, please 6 around Wailuku and Kahului to give each of the 7 indicate by raising your hand. 7 communities some separation, so people are aware of it. 8 MEMBER SUZUKI: 23. 8 And you'll see, then, that the -- where the pier is that 9 CHAIR CANNON: 22 in favor. 9 sticks out into the harbor there and then to the left of 10 All opposed? Zero. 10 that, that area is Keopuolani Park. And that would be a 11 All abstentions? One abstention. 11 dividing area between Wailuku and Kahului. And that 12 Motion carries. 12 line that you will see drops off on the lower left 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Next map, C2. And we can 13 corner of the map there, that area, is going to continue 14 go through that one, please. 14 up into and around, between Wailuku and Kahului. Okay I 15 The major recommendations deal with the area 15 think those are the major things that we did. 16 in the upper left-hand corner of the map in Waihee. 16 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 17 There are two expansion areas. The wording, where you 17 MEMBER deNAIE: Mr. Chair, I move to accept 18 see Waihee Country Town, and the area just below that, 18 Map C2 as we have it before us. I would like to 19 Waihee Expansion, are the two areas being recommended by 19 suggest, as part of this motion, that the area where it 20 the IRC for expansion in Waihee. 20 says Wailuku RR, the Urban Growth Boundary there -- I 21 The idea is to -- the concept was to expand 21 believe that's the Sterling Kim project. Could that be 22 Waihee Town and to give it more of a full-size town 22 considered as a Country Town to encourage that to have 23 area. Then I just want to call to your attention -- 23 more than just houses, rather than just Urban? 24 this is the present -- the present area of Waihee Town 24 CHAIR CANNON: Are you asking staff? 25 here, we're suggesting two areas of expansion. That's 25 MEMBER deNAIE: Yes. Page 219 Page 221 1 this area here, 80 units -- is it 86 units -- and this 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is the area that's 2 area here, 68 units here. Those would be the two areas 2 blue on our written map? 3 of expansion in that area. 3 MEMBER deNAIE: Right below it, the area that 4 Then across the road from that is the existing 4 has the red and white dotted -- I believe that's the 5 area. This land is not vacant anymore, but, rather, 5 Sterling Kim project. 6 this urban development. Waihee Hawaiian Homelands area 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's Hale Mua. 7 has now been expanded down to include this whole area. 7 MEMBER deNAIE: Hale Mua, yeah. Could it be 8 So that would not be an expansion area. And then in 8 possible to make that a Country Town and still keep the 9 addition to that, just for your information, there are 9 density that -- because my understanding is it's a 10 some ag subdivisions up in this area that have been 10 mixture of density of Ag, Rural, and then higher density 11 authorized and entitled already. So there is a large -- 11 zero lot lines, affordable sort of thing. 12 I'm not sure exact location, we don't have them on the 12 CHAIR CANNON: John, do you have a response to 13 map, but I think they have been entitled already. 13 that, or Jeff? 14 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 14 MR. HUNT: Lucienne brings up a good point. 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I should probably go 15 There are some large agricultural lots that go around 16 through the whole map first, describe it, then come back 16 the more urbanized residential core, and we could 17 over and do the -- go back over separate areas. 17 delineate those two. 18 MEMBER deNAIE: I just wanted to make a 18 CHAIR CANNON: And make a Country Town out of 19 motion, but if Dick wants to finish, that's fine. 19 it? 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. I think those are 20 MEMBER deNAIE: Would it be appropriate to 21 the only areas of expansion on this Map C2. And we'll 21 have that section be Country Town? Because, in 22 be moving down after this, down into Central -- the more 22 essence -- I mean, I don't know why we are not making 23 Central part of the island. 23 Waiehu a country town or making Makawao a country town. 24 The other thing I would like to call to your 24 I mean, they're both country towns, you know. I don't 25 attention is the area, if you look in the -- in the 25 see much -- much difference except, you know, we have a 56 (Pages 218 to 221) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 222 Page 224 1 school. We don't have as much services, we don't have 1 Warren -- Susan. 2 as much commercial services, but this would be the 2 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Just so I'm clear, are we 3 encouragement to have a real town there. 3 only talking about that Wailuku RR, near ocean? 4 CHAIR CANNON: Jeff. 4 MEMBER deNAIE: No, below it. 5 MR. HUNT: Again, we're starting to use our 5 CHAIR CANNON: There. 6 site planning to draw our lines, but then we need to be 6 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Isn't it Hale Mua and isn't 7 careful to step back out. The development is simply 7 it fully entitled? 8 residential with an urban density core and then large ag 8 MR. SUMMERS: Yes, it is. Staff's concern is 9 lots around it. If you want to suggest 9 that it's a wholly-entitled project with a site plan 10 locationally-wise that commercial uses be allowed, also, 10 that's very suburban in nature. And -- and that could 11 you could designate it as a Business Country Town. 11 be construed as a problem. But to have them change it 12 That's not -- that doesn't match what the existing 12 to Country Town -- Country Town has a unique -- 13 development is. 13 CHAIR CANNON: No, they are talking Rural. 14 MEMBER deNAIE: Well, I'd like to suggest 14 MR. SUMMERS: Rural Service Center or a 15 that. And I guess, at the Community Plan level, they 15 Country Town, both of those are unique. And when we 16 can decide -- well, actually, this is already permitted. 16 start to blur that with something that may be more 17 So I don't know where it's gonna be decided. But just, 17 suburban in nature, I think it starts to undermine the 18 you know, that road is choked with people that are all 18 purpose and intent of the Service Center and the Country 19 going Sack N Save. And, you know, there's no other 19 Town. 20 place to go. 20 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chair, to follow up, if this 21 Anyway, I move to accept the map. I would 21 project is fully entitled, and they're in the process of 22 like to amend that boundary to be Country Town if it is 22 starting to build, how is it that we can go in here and 23 appropriate for our -- you know, our guidelines. And if 23 start screwing around with that? Is this a duplication 24 not, I just move to accept the map as is. 24 of what we did in Makena and is this gonna be a 25 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? Seconded by 25 duplication behalf we did in Maui Lani, in Central, C3? Page 223 Page 225 1 Joe. 1 Because if it is, you better pull it out because I will 2 MEMBER BERTRAM: Yes. And discussion? 2 not support that. 3 CHAIR CANNON: Discussion. 3 I am so tired of us thinking that we're bigger 4 MEMBER BERTRAM: Just to back up what Lucienne 4 than life here, that we can go in here on fully entitled 5 is saying, is that I would -- I was even going to 5 parcels that are building now and start adjusting this 6 suggest we just take that out. Because, you know, here 6 map. That bothers me to no end. 7 we are again expanding more just residential, single use 7 We have policies after policies that we worked 8 into -- and making it something that now people have to 8 on for three and-a-half years, labored intensively over 9 like just always thinking about traffic. And here we 9 them, and called out what we want here to do with what 10 are, still expanding. The same type of land use that 10 is proposed. And now we're throwing them at the door. 11 has gotten into this problem we have right now. If this 11 And we're going to go in here and just change somebody's 12 is going to be a viable neighborhood, it has to have 12 entitled parcels? I disagree with that and I want the 13 some kind of commercial element, a store you can get 13 record to reflect my name will not support it because I 14 your bread at, you know. And so maybe not Country Town, 14 think that's ridiculous. 15 but perhaps the -- that other designation. 15 It's an insult to the credibility of this 16 CHAIR CANNON: Rural Service Center. 16 entire body when we go into fully entitled projects that 17 MEMBER BERTRAM: Rural Service Center may be 17 are building right now. This project has millions of 18 more appropriate. They don't need anything big, but we 18 dollars worth of infrastructure to put on naming a 19 do need something so this can be more of a neighborhood 19 bridge based on what kind of density he has here. And 20 and can be more of its own self. So -- but only that. 20 now we're gonna go in there and we're going to screw 21 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. You are seconding Joe, 21 around with that? Huh-uh. 22 but with that being a Rural Service Center? 22 CHAIR CANNON: Warren Suzuki. 23 Is that okay with you, Lucienne? 23 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, Warren Suzuki, 24 MEMBER deNAIE: Yes. 24 Wailuku. 25 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Further discussion? 25 I think this proposal is totally unreasonable. 57 (Pages 222 to 225) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 226 Page 228 1 To think to try to create another Country Town in that 1 MEMBER BERTRAM: I won't be voting for that. 2 particular area doesn't make a whole lot of sense. 2 I think the IRC did a good job. I think what Tom is 3 CHAIR CANNON: It's a Rural Service Center. 3 talking about is true, it does seem to, all of a sudden, 4 MEMBER SUZUKI: Well, it could be a Country 4 run these two into each other. Although, they do 5 Town. But you got Waihee, you got Happy Valley, 5 already, basically, run into each other. But it's 6 Wailuku, and that's a town. You think you're going to 6 single family on the other side of there. And it 7 create another town in between? It would be totally 7 already is -- basically runs right into Waihee Country 8 unreasonable. And it is designated for Urban. It's 8 Town. So I -- I don't see a problem with the expansion. 9 fully entitled, as Susan said. So we should just leave 9 It's -- it's separate than what we had down in Sterling 10 it and just move forward with what we have here. 10 Kim's thing, which is different as well. So I -- I 11 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 11 won't be supportive of it. 12 MEMBER deNAIE: Mr. Chair, I said that if it 12 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Anybody else? 13 wasn't appropriate, my motion was just to leave it out. 13 Stan. 14 But just, you know, we -- we have these policies of 14 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 15 having small towns and so forth and so on. I just 15 Sorry. I have been eating crackers. 16 brought it up. And my understanding is, is that there 16 You know, the reason I support this amendment 17 are many reasons why it's not moving forward right now, 17 is that it moves away from Waihee Town. If it was on 18 including native Hawaiian land claims. So I'm not sure 18 the other side of Waihee Town -- because there have been 19 if anyone is building right now and I'm not sure if the 19 plans by the owner of that property, where the town is, 20 project is gonna stay the same or change. But, you 20 to move towards Kahakuloa -- that would make much better 21 know, I support there being affordable housing there. 21 sense as far as, you know, creating that Country Town 22 And let's just leave it off and work on the rest of the 22 Center. Just like Tom says, it moves away and gets into 23 map, you know, under the motion to approve. So I 23 another area. So I'm going to vote in favor of his 24 withdraw that part of my motion and say let's just look 24 amendment. 25 at this map and approve it as it stands. 25 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Anybody else? Page 227 Page 229 1 MEMBER SUZUKI: Call for the question. 1 Jeanne. 2 CHAIR CANNON: Dick -- 2 MEMBER SKOG: Could the staff blow that up so 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: No. 3 we can see the aerial? 4 CHAIR CANNON: -- could you take the Chair on 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: As I said, just to clarify 5 this one? I just want to mention one other thing here. 5 again, this area has now been built out. So what I 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Tom. 6 think Tom is trying to say, by way of an explanation, 7 CHAIR CANNON: I would like to amend the 7 this area would just make it very urbanized all the way 8 motion to remove Waihee Expansion, the one that's just 8 through Waihee, right through Waiehu because of this 9 below what is called Waihee Country Town. And my 9 connection here. 10 reasoning there in making this motion to amend is that 10 Jeanne. 11 Waihee Expansion blurs the line between Waiehu and 11 MEMBER SKOG: Thank you. 12 Waihee by just being on the other side of the road. 12 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Anybody else? 13 That's not enough space between a town and another town. 13 (Silence.) 14 And Waihee Expansion, even though it's got houses where 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Call for the 15 they don't show houses right now, but right up against 15 question on Tom's motion to delete this area from the C2 16 the park, I guess, at least the park is there to 16 map. All in favor? Nine. 17 separate the two. So I would like to amend the motion 17 All opposed, raise your hands. Eleven. 18 to remove Waihee Expansion. 18 Abstaining? Two. 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Is there a second for that 19 It was 9-11-2, the motion is defeated. 20 motion? Stan seconds. 20 On to the main motion now. Main motion is to 21 Any other discussion on that motion? 21 approve this entire map as it is. 22 MEMBER BERTRAM: I -- 22 Jeanne. 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. All in favor -- 23 MEMBER SKOG: I want to take a look at that 24 MEMBER BERTRAM: Oh -- 24 area where there's that finger in the harbor. And first 25 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Joe. 25 ask Planning Department, what's the significance of 58 (Pages 226 to 229) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 230 Page 232 1 leaving that whole -- that finger plus the area across 1 that into account, if that part were ever developed. So 2 from it out of Urban? 2 I -- I still want that motion, but it would be with that 3 MR. HUNT: That means that urban type 3 understanding. 4 developments would not be allowed on that. That is some 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Anybody else? 5 kind of special permitting. 5 Okay, John Blumer-Buell. 6 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. So right in that area 6 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: I don't support the 7 right now is where -- is that where the college -- 7 motion. I feel like this -- the issue of urbanizing the 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is the MACC right 8 West Maui -- the breakwater there should be part of the 9 here. 9 overall discussion of the Kahului Harbor expansion. And 10 MEMBER SKOG: Can you blow that up, staff? 10 part of the discussion is even using that as a park. 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The MACC -- the MACC -- the 11 And so I would like to leave it open to the overall 12 MACC has been included within the Urban Boundary, as is 12 discussion rather than trying to nail it down here. 13 MCC. The park area has not been included. It's meant 13 It's under discussion right now. 14 to be a greenbelt. 14 Thank you. 15 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. I wanted to make a motion 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Thank you. 16 to include that finger that's going out. 16 Anybody else? Anybody else? 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's breakwater. 17 (Silence.) 18 MEMBER SKOG: Yeah. Because I know in the 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let's vote on the -- the 19 harbor plans, there is the potential for that becoming 19 vote right now is whether you would like to include the 20 -- well, a variety of uses. So I -- I mean, it's going 20 breakwater area into the Urban zone. All in favor, 21 to take long enough to get something there, anyway, and 21 please raise your hands. Seven. 22 I wouldn't want the lack of that being Urban to get in 22 All opposed? Eleven. 23 the way of that. 23 Abstaining? Three abstaining. 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: What Jeanne is suggesting 24 Seven-eleven, motion is defeated. 25 is that an Urban Boundary be put around this area here. 25 We're back now to the main motion for the Page 231 Page 233 1 Any second on that motion? 1 whole area. 2 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Second it. 2 MEMBER SUZUKI: Call for the question. 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Warren, okay. 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: All in favor -- 4 Is there any discussion on that motion? 4 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Eleven and three 5 Lesley. 5 abstaining? 6 MEMBER BRUCE: I want to point out that that 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Seven-eleven. 7 area on the cannery side of that west breakwater is one 7 Seven-eleven. 8 of the best sites for surfing for the children in the 8 MEMBER deNAIE: Seven for, eleven against, 9 area and the canoe clubs to practice. And on the other 9 three abstentions. 10 side of the breakwater is very important for more 10 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: What was the vote, 11 advanced surfers. So both sides of that breakwater have 11 seven-eleven-four? 12 important surfing sites. 12 CHAIR CANNON: Four abstentions. 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Anybody else, any other 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Seven-eleven-four. 14 comments? 14 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Abstentions are a yes, 15 Hans. 15 is that right? 16 MEMBER MICHEL: Since we on C2 map, I would 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Now the motion is to 17 like to see infill in Wailuku. 17 approve the entire map now with no -- no amendments. 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Wait. Let's just take this 18 All in favor, please raise your hands. 19 motion right now before we make -- that one will confuse 19 MEMBER MICHEL: Wait. Wait. I asked a -- 20 it. You can come back to that in a minute. 20 MEMBER SUZUKI: Call for the question. 21 Jeanne, speak to the motion. 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Hans, go ahead. 22 MEMBER SKOG: I just wanted to comment. I 22 MEMBER MICHEL: I ask you a question early 23 totally agree with you that that is a concern. And I 23 part, and since we on the Map C2, we do need to have 24 would not be supporting any of those being impacted. I 24 infill in Wailuku and Kahului, but you told me talk to 25 just want -- I think there are policies that would take 25 you later. So now let's put it up. 59 (Pages 230 to 233) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 234 Page 236 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I'll try to explain that. 1 infill over the 20-25 year period in Kahului and 2 The infill is not designated on the map per se, but, 2 Wailuku. And that's why I seconded Hans' motion. 3 rather, it's to account for the fact that there would be 3 I think this concept is a good one. We have 4 areas in Wailuku and Kahului where people might tear 4 no control over it and there is no minimum or maximum. 5 down, let's say, some single-family homes and put up a 5 No one would be confined to when we -- when we -- when 6 two-story building. And that would be infill in the 6 we got 100 or 300 that we couldn't allow anymore infill. 7 area, would add units, but we do not know which owners 7 That's not the thing. It's an estimation. So the 8 might do that over the years. We assume that within 8 motion is just to accept the fact that it would be good 9 Wailuku and within Kahului that probably will be done 9 to have redevelopment and infill in some areas of 10 with the older residences. The question, though, is how 10 Kahului and Wailuku. It's a very successful strategy in 11 many units. 11 all urban areas. And we just wanted to, you know, go on 12 The Department originally suggested a much 12 record accepting that. So that -- that is how I read 13 larger number. The Investigative Review Committee came 13 this, anyway. 14 back with a lower number. And that's the number you 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Stan. 15 have on your spreadsheet right now. So you could raise 15 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 16 the number or you could delete the number or you could 16 Just for your information, the group that I'm 17 go along with it. That's the concept. 17 with, Housing for the Local Person, has suggested, and 18 MEMBER MICHEL: Wailuku, I would like to have 18 Mike Molina has presented a ordinance to the Council, to 19 a higher number because they have a lot of (inaudible) 19 add ohana units to 6,000 square foot lots, which is not 20 houses up there. 20 allowed right now. So the idea is, again, to infill, to 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Very good. Do you want to 21 allow families to have -- you know, have their loved 22 make a motion? 22 ones or elderly parents and that kind of thing. So I 23 MEMBER MICHEL: I do. 23 think we can do a lot of things like that. Including, 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Make it. 24 now, A&B is doing infill with their Kahului Town 25 MEMBER MICHEL: I would say 300. 25 Shopping Center. They're adding housing in there. So I Page 235 Page 237 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. We have 300. 1 think it's possible. Even though the zoning currently 2 Warren Suzuki -- wait a second. 2 is something else, but it is possible. 3 Any second on -- 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let me try to also add, I 4 MEMBER deNAIE: Second. 4 think Susan -- Lucienne was correct. The number is not 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Lucienne seconds. 5 meant to be a confining number, the first 100 or the 6 Warren. 6 first 300 would get it, but, rather, through some kind 7 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, I have a huge 7 of an estimate so that we do our total counts what we 8 problem with we trying to impose a unit count in an 8 think might be the likely number to be in there. So I 9 infilled area that is already zoned and already 9 think perhaps Hans' suggestion that I asked him to give 10 developed. So are we telling people that -- let's say 10 me a number probably was mistaken. Rather, that we 11 we put a unit count in Wailuku, let's say 100. So if 11 should have the infill and that we can put in our 12 the first people -- the first individuals that come in 12 spreadsheet approximately 100 or 300-plus, something of 13 and utilize that amount, then you telling me that 13 that sort, as to give us a count, a rough number what we 14 everybody else who wants to come in, redevelop and 14 think might be a logical number. I think that was the 15 create additional infill cannot, it's already zoned, 15 idea. 16 already entitled? To me, I don't think it's appropriate 16 Warren. 17 for us to put a unit count for infill within an area 17 MEMBER SUZUKI: So you're using the term 18 that's already zoned. 18 logical again. I think it's -- it's a number that could 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Thank you. 19 potentially be achieved with infill. But if you say 20 Lucienne. 20 logical, since you were saying this is the amount of 21 MEMBER deNAIE: Just by way of explanation -- 21 units that should be provided as infill -- and as Stan 22 and I appreciate, you know, what Warren has to say -- 22 said, you know, the zoning ordinance may be such where 23 when we discussed the various amounts that might be 23 it may allow for additional ohana units. You know, we 24 added to the different communities in the IRC, we had an 24 always talk about infill, preventive urban sprawl. And 25 estimate of about 1,200 that might be added through 25 here we are, right now, talking about infill 60 (Pages 234 to 237) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 238 Page 240 1 development, but putting a logical number that we should 1 fill that deficit? So regardless of what you say about 2 be looking at. You know, let's just take the position 2 how numbers should not be used, I think, as human 3 to promote infill and end there and not talk about 3 beings, we're going to look at them no matter what. 4 units. 4 Okay. I think we need to listen to the input from 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Susan. 5 organizations like Wailuku Main Street as well as 6 MEMBER MOIKEHA: You know, this first appeared 6 individuals who say that we need more infill in Wailuku. 7 in our last meeting discussion. And the Department 7 And so the number that I see there, again, not 8 threw it in there on the IRC. It has never been a 8 supposed to be looking at it, but we all do, right, 9 discussion until that point in time. And the example 9 needs to be increased as Hans is recommending. 10 that was used, Jeff used, the cannery by the mall, 10 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. I think we've had a 11 suppose that was torn down and they built an apartment 11 lot of discussion. The motion is, right now, as Hans 12 building or whatever. 12 stated it, to say 300 units on the thing, we can vote it 13 I have a problem with this because of the 13 up or down, and take up another motion after that. 300 14 numbers. The only reason we're putting numbers in here 14 units infilled within Wailuku, right? 15 is because we're playing the number game. That is the 15 MEMBER MICHEL: Yeah. 16 only reason. I would much rather see a policy. I don't 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That was -- all in favor of 17 think we have to deal with these kind of numbers, but we 17 the motion? 18 should call it out as awareness. 18 We are not doing Kahului right now. This 19 Because, right now, you're assuming that every 19 motion was 300 units in Wailuku infill. All in favor, 20 existing entitled project is being built on this island 20 please raise your hands. 21 right now. And that's not true. So whether there's a 21 All opposed? 22 new ordinance that allows for an ohana unit on 6,000 22 Abstaining? 23 square feet, or whatever it was, great. I think it's 23 MEMBER VICENS: What is the vote? 24 already taken care of in the fact that there are many 24 MEMBER deNAIE: In favor of Hans' motion. 25 projects that have been ongoing for 10, 15, 20 years, 25 MEMBER VICENS: What's the numbers? Page 239 Page 241 1 that have not been fully built out because of many 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: How are we doing? 2 reasons. And those numbers are gonna be covered here. 2 MR. HUNT: Let me do a headcount. 3 I would much rather you see -- get rid of 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Headcount. 4 these numbers, stop getting dragged into it, and just 4 MR. HUNT: 8-9-4. 5 put a policy indicating what your concerns are. Because 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: 8-9-4, motion is defeated. 6 I think this is wrong. 6 We had eight, plus four would have only given us 12. So 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Is there any -- Hans. 7 the motion is defeated. 8 MEMBER MICHEL: Because I was mentioned a 8 Do I go back -- any other motions? 9 number. Well, what we can do is put 300, plus or minus. 9 MEMBER deNAIE: Main motion. 10 Then makes no difference, you can go either way. 10 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Main motion now. I would 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. I think I get a 11 like to go back to the main motion. 12 sense of -- let me, as Chair, exercise that we leave the 12 Any discussion before we vote? 13 number out at this point. And I think that's proper. 13 MEMBER FILIMOE'ATU: No. 14 And, Wallette. 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. All in favor of 15 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: Wallette Pellegrino. 15 approving this map as it's put up here? And there is no 16 You know, I read through all of the material 16 amendments on that map. Wailuku, C2, Central Valley. 17 that Wailuku Main Street and the Tri-Isle Main Street 17 MEMBER VICENS: Announce the vote. 18 Resource Center gave. And in so many different places, 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Eighteen in favor. 19 they identified the need for infill in our different 19 Opposed? One opposed. 20 communities. I hear what you are saying about trying 20 All abstaining? Two abstaining -- three 21 not to use numbers because, whatever reason, numbers can 21 abstaining. 22 cause us to stray. But I think the reality is all of us 22 Thank you. Okay. Motion passes. 23 look at the numbers. Okay. Numbers can also be a way 23 I pass the mike back over to our Chair. 24 for developers to say, well, look. And in Wailuku's 24 We are now on to Map C3. Tom, do you want me 25 case, you see a deficit, right? So how are we going to 25 to describe it? 61 (Pages 238 to 241) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 242 Page 244 1 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, please. 1 CHAIR CANNON: Do I hear a motion with regard 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I'll go ahead and try to 2 to C3? 3 describe the map. This is the one that has the most 3 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chair? Chair? 4 projects sort of touching on each other. If you look 4 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Susan. 5 all the way up here on the -- can you turn off the 5 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I have something to add. 6 lights, please? Okay. Just for orientation, this is 6 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 7 the intersection at the middle of Wailuku Town, up here 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. On this entitled 8 in the top part of the map, up here. This is Kaahumanu 8 parcel, I think Mark has the correct outline of what is 9 Shopping Center over here. This is Kuihelani Highway. 9 already entitled. And if you could, for a moment, take 10 The sugar mill would be located about here. This is 10 your Map C2 and your -- and put it right above your C3. 11 Kuihelani Highway going towards Maalaea in this 11 And what you're gonna see from the harbor, encompassing 12 direction. This is High Street coming out of Wailuku 12 Keopuolani Park, okay, you're gonna see those red lines 13 Town right here like this. And here is Waikapu Town 13 and how they kind of border and fall into this green 14 here, again going towards Maalaea. Parallel to the 14 area. During the IRC, it was the intention to -- 15 Wailuku -- coming out of Wailuku Town is Waiale Road 15 because Kahului and Wailuku have grown together, and 16 under the bridge here. And then continuing out here to 16 they pretty much have, it was -- some of the Members 17 Waiko Road at this point here where it stops at this 17 felt there should be some kind of border there or space 18 point. Waiko Road in the middle of Wailuku Town -- 18 or something to delineate a separation. And then we 19 wait. Wait. Excuse me. Waiale Road continues down 19 fell into this green area below. And there's the 20 here -- I'm sorry -- down to Waikapu here. Here is 20 reservoir also listed there in that green area. 21 Waiko Road that comes in here like this at this point 21 Now, when this discussion came up, there may 22 here. Maui Lani is this area in here. 22 have been people in the IRC who fully knew that there 23 And the proposed projects include this area 23 were entitled lands here. 24 here, Waiale here, and, also, this area is also part of 24 And I will only speak for myself. I did not. 25 Waiale here, even though it's attached to Maui Lani. 25 You have to remember the maps we were looking Page 243 Page 245 1 The proposal is to put a greenbelt between Maui Lani and 1 at showed this as all open space. These maps were four 2 Waiale in this area here. This is the existing Waikapu 2 years old that we were working with. As I said before, 3 community, town here. In addition to that, you'll see 3 I think our GIS, Mark King, has done an excellent job, 4 here the -- what is now the Spencer affordable housing 4 but he did call that out to us. 5 project located in this area here. This is the Tropical 5 And so my motion on the floor right now is to 6 Plantation down here. And you will see it's within -- 6 deal with this entitled land, and that this open space 7 right now, at least on this map, within the Urban Growth 7 that we've created here, that it go around anything that 8 Boundary here. 8 is entitled in that lower portion. 9 Another addition would be this area right here 9 MEMBER SUZUKI: Second. 10 on the makai side of the highway, that would be an 10 CHAIR CANNON: Moved by Susan, seconded by 11 addition to Waikapu Town here. This project has been 11 Warren Suzuki. You mean fully entitled, Susan? 12 proposed to us. It was -- with the testifiers coming 12 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Fully entitled. Fully 13 the last couple of days, town development coming in here 13 entitled means they are building and they have been to 14 with a proposal of 754 units there which the IRC did not 14 Commission, are ready and they are doing their VMX on 15 recommend. The Maui Lani folks came to us and said that 15 one side of the portion. 16 some of this area that was now indicated here as a 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let me try to show it here 17 greenbelt here actually in fact is encumbered, something 17 on the map. The area -- this whole area was put in 18 we may want to talk about. 18 green on the map that came out of the IRC. And I, like 19 Those are the main -- this whole area, this 19 Susan, did not realize it was entitled until the folks 20 whole hillside now has become Kuilani up here. And it's 20 came to us this week. This is the area here that -- go 21 now moved up the hill, including many of these areas, 21 back to the other map you just had a second ago, the 22 but it certainly hasn't been finished up yet. This is 22 gray area. This area -- Mark, please correct me if I'm 23 Wailuku Heights up in this area here. 23 wrong. This area in gray is now entitled. Is that 24 MEMBER SUZUKI: Speak up, Trevor. 24 correct? 25 MEMBER TOKISHI: Mr. Chair? 25 MR. MICHAELSON: Yes. 62 (Pages 242 to 245) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 246 Page 248 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay, that's entitled. So 1 this way? 2 what Susan's recommendation is, is that this large green 2 Hans. 3 area that you see on the maps in front of you be 3 MEMBER MICHEL: If this is a water reservoir, 4 modified to move this line here over to this point here 4 how much colors you have in there and how come you 5 and follow here. It would leave a greenbelt here where 5 didn't paint them blue so we know what we are looking 6 the reservoir is located here and it would continue on 6 at? 7 to this point here. So it would include this whole area 7 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Trevor. 8 here. That's her motion. 8 MEMBER TOKISHI: Trevor Tokishi, Kahului. 9 Is that correct? 9 If this property is already entitled, then it 10 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Yeah. 10 shouldn't even be a discussion. I think we should call 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Okay. So, Tom, do 11 for the question and get on with it. 12 you want to take it? 12 CHAIR CANNON: Anyone else? All those in 13 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 13 favor -- Susan. 14 Discussion anyone? 14 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I didn't have any comment on 15 Lucienne. 15 the motion, so I'm gonna to give it to you now. This is 16 MEMBER deNAIE: I just want to point out, I 16 entitled property, so stay focused on that. If this 17 don't know if any of you hiked or anything, walked in 17 thing -- it has been through its entitlement process. 18 that area, you know, I think none of us kind of knew 18 You can be assured of Lucienne's concerns that all that 19 where the entitlement was. There's a little strip of 19 was taken into fact. 20 golf course there. And the VMX is down below that, so 20 And I think what Lucienne also needs to convey 21 that's where the building is, the lower area. There's 21 to everyone is how many of these projects she has 22 nothing going on. And I walk there frequently. But I 22 testified personally on and against. Because I have a 23 have a concern that there's a reservoir there and that 23 concern about that. 24 reservoir is supposedly going to be part of our future 24 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 25 water system and have a capacity to hold or to process 25 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I'm sorry, Chair, there's a Page 247 Page 249 1 water that eventually will produce nine million gallons 1 point of order. There is no debate here. 2 a day. Now, our existing water treatment plants at 2 MEMBER SUZUKI: Call for the question. 3 Kamaole and Kahakapao have about that same capacity, 3 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor of the 4 eight million gallons a day. So, you know, it's a 4 motion, please indicate by raising your hand. 5 pretty large amount of capacity. If that reservoir is 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Sixteen. 6 actually going to be used or if it's gonna be continued 6 CHAIR CANNON: Sixteen in favor. 7 to be used for ag, I just have a concern. It's uphill 7 All opposed? Three opposed? Again, all 8 from where all those residences are planned. I mean, 8 opposed? One, two, three, four. Four opposed. 9 I'm not going to support Susan's motion, but I'm just 9 Abstentions? One -- two, I see. 10 going to say as a person that walks in this area, it 10 So the motion carries. 11 seems a really kind of silly idea, for me, to build 11 Next. 12 houses downhill from an existing reservoir. But, you 12 Yes, Trevor. 13 know, just a thought. 13 MEMBER TOKISHI: Trevor Tokishi, Kahului. 14 CHAIR CANNON: Any other discussion? 14 I know that we're not supposed to be focusing 15 Joe. 15 on the numbers, but I am born and raised in Kahului, 16 MEMBER BERTRAM: Yes. If this did pass, I 16 family has been there for generations. And when I look 17 would love to see it with some kind of way of still 17 at this growth area unit count, you know, the 2.8 18 maintaining some kind of lateral connections to the 18 household, I see a blaring deficit for the Central Maui 19 areas that go towards Kahului. You know, whether they 19 area that I'm a little concerned about. Let me tell you 20 can incorporate it into their plans or what, but I think 20 why. 21 the idea that a lateral connection of, you know, 21 For one thing, that number might be 22 corridor of some sort -- just so that idea of separation 22 understated. You know, if all those entitled properties 23 could still be maintained even within the development 23 that we assume are gonna be built are not built by 2030, 24 that they're proposing. 24 that deficit number could be even bigger from my 25 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion, coming around 25 understanding. What I'm worried about is basic 63 (Pages 246 to 249) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 250 Page 252 1 economics, supply and demand. You know, if our supply 1 Wailuku Heights won't be built out? I mean, I think we 2 is so low in Central Maui, it may drive the prices up, 2 need to look at the other side, too. What if all the 3 you know. And my brother, my sister, they don't have a 3 people who are here now pushing the demand for housing 4 house yet, you know, and they're going to come back and 4 decide that it's too expensive to live here? And that, 5 live in Maui, they're gonna live in Central Maui. But 5 you know, the number of people that relocate here drops 6 with this huge deficit, they may not be able to. 6 over the next 10-year projection? We really don't know. 7 So I just, I guess -- well, first of all, I 7 I think we've given enough wiggle room, but we need to 8 had a question as to how that deficit is justified, 8 have some quality of life as well as quantity of life. 9 maybe the IRC or the staff? 9 And I'm sorry if people like Susan think I 10 CHAIR CANNON: Susan. 10 testify against things. You know, I did testify about 11 MEMBER MOIKEHA: In our discussion with the 11 the VMX, but I never said anything about the area by the 12 IRC, there were some Members that wanted this area 12 reservoir. It's just the VMX was digging up people's 13 shrunk to give way to a bigger green buffer. And that 13 burials. What can I say? You know, I feel sad about 14 was the only justification. They felt that it should 14 that and I'm just a soft touch here. 15 shrink. And I guess, more appropriately, those who felt 15 CHAIR CANNON: Warren Suzuki. 16 that way should probably address it from the IRC. But 16 MEMBER SUZUKI: Mr. Chair, Warren Suzuki, 17 that's what I recall. 17 Wailuku. 18 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 18 You know, many years ago, I had the fortunate 19 Lucienne. 19 opportunity of purchasing a home for myself. And that 20 MEMBER deNAIE: Well, I think the idea was to 20 is something for me that was always a dream. You know, 21 try to keep with our principles of we are a series of 21 when you look back as far as my parents and coming and 22 towns, of small towns that have character, that have a 22 living and working in a plantation and being able to 23 sense of place, that have a places for people to live, 23 purchase a home for $1,500 by making only a dollar a 24 places for people to shop, places for people to 24 day, that was their dream. And they sacrificed a hell 25 recreate, and so forth and so on. What we've seen in 25 of a lot to be able to achieve their dreams. And other Page 251 Page 253 1 the past is Kahului was master planned as a town, then 1 individuals, you know, had the opportunity to purchase 2 it kind of just kept adding with no thoughts of there 2 homes in Wailuku, Kahului. 3 being side visions -- villages. In fact, they probably 3 I have a huge concern that we may not be able 4 have more distinctive neighborhood in New York City than 4 to provide -- we will not be providing opportunities for 5 you do in Kahului, I hate to say it. So the idea is, 5 our children to be able to achieve their dreams, you 6 you know, as Susan suggested in South Maui, maybe we 6 know, to own their own property, to live in their own 7 don't have to repeat the same thing that happened in 7 homes. 8 Kihei above the highway. Maybe we don't have to repeat 8 I have two kids. They live on the mainland. 9 the same thing in Kahului and have it run into Waikapu 9 I would like for them to, hopefully, at some point in 10 at one side and Waiehu on the other side, and try to 10 time, come back to Maui. But if you put huge 11 keep some separation and so forth. 11 restrictions on homes in Central Maui area, because 12 It's my personal belief that when we are 12 that's where they want to live -- as Trevor said, when 13 finished with our work, a number of other projects will 13 you have generation and generation of families, you 14 be presented to the Council and the Planning Commission 14 know, living and growing up in the Central Maui area, 15 for inclusion. And they will have a chance to do that. 15 that's where the kids want to live. I mean, they don't 16 I mean, our scope was very huge. And we had a 16 want to live in Kula, nothing against Kula, they don't 17 limited amount of chance to really look at project by 17 want to live in West Maui, because their families live 18 project, you know. It was useful that we had some, I 18 in Central Maui. Our culture is such where families 19 think, guidelines from organizations like, you know, 19 like to live close to each other so we can be there to 20 Tri-Isle Main Street and so forth, because they went out 20 help and support each other. So if we are not going to 21 to the community and did some analysis. But, you know, 21 provide opportunities for our next generation to be able 22 frankly, I believe that there were already entitled like 22 to live in the area, to me that will be very unfortunate 23 6,000 projects in the Central Maui area. 23 and it would be very sad. 24 Now, I mean, does anyone think that Kuilani 24 So for those that maybe don't understand local 25 really won't be built, does anyone really think that 25 culture, understand who live here -- we want to continue 64 (Pages 250 to 253) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 254 Page 256 1 to live here. We want to continue to live close to our 1 up? I'm trying to understand what that -- again, of 2 families. But to put limitations that we prevent our 2 what that greenbelt is between Waikapu and Kahului 3 kids and future generation from living in the area that 3 Urban. Right there. Yeah. 4 they grew up in, because other people may think that 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That was put there because 5 that might be the right thing to do, not knowing the 5 Kahului had grown, Maui Lani was attached to it. And 6 culture, to me is very, very wrong. 6 rather than having one large urban area all the way 7 CHAIR CANNON: Joe. 7 across here, it was thought best to be consistent with 8 MEMBER BERTRAM: I think that the discussion 8 the statement we kept making about having separate 9 here is just a little bit off the mark of what we're 9 towns, identifiable communities, that Waiale should not 10 trying to, at least in my estimation. It's not how many 10 be cheek to jaw to Maui Lani, Kahului, but should have 11 units, it's how we grow, not how big we grow. It keeps 11 its own identity. And, therefore, a greenbelt was 12 coming back to, if we're going to accommodate more 12 inserted on the map. That's the reason. 13 units, we have to spread out. And that's the old model. 13 MEMBER SKOG: Is there some proposed -- is 14 We don't have to do that anymore. The infill project 14 there some proposed development in that area otherwise, 15 they're doing at Kahului Shopping Center, we could do 15 Department? 16 through out Kahului. 16 CHAIR CANNON: I've heard a regional park 17 When you look at the demographics of what 17 brought up. 18 people want right now, they really do want to live in a 18 Jeff. 19 town, that they don't have to take care of the yard. 19 MR. HUNT: Yes, there's a proposal to develop 20 It's usually smaller families, two and three, and people 20 that area. There is some green areas within that 21 retired and stuff. 21 proposal, regional park, et cetera, civic center, a 22 If we do it in a beautiful, good way, we could 22 school. It doesn't exactly match that. 23 actually recreate Kahului into a real town that could 23 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. You know, having grown up 24 accommodate all of this growth. But we keep thinking 24 here -- you know, I really think, contrary to some other 25 along the old style, that, no, we have to keep going 25 statements, that Wailuku does have distinct areas in Page 255 Page 257 1 out, we have to -- and all it's gonna do is just keep 1 spite of areas having meshed together. And I was just 2 repeating the same mistakes. That means we gotta deal 2 thinking like the Pukalani Terrace area, you have Sand 3 with all the traffic, people have to drive in to get to 3 Hills, you have Happy Valley, you have Waikapu. I mean, 4 the place. We did bad land use. 4 they are distinct neighborhoods that all have a 5 We need to correct that. And that is what 5 character of their own. So I don't think physically 6 this is about, to now correct it and redo Kahului, redo 6 sticking in a greenbelt makes -- makes the difference. 7 Kihei, these commercial areas, these Light Industrial 7 And I am as concerned as Trevor is about us -- 8 areas, where nobody lives and make it into a town where 8 you know, we have been looking at numbers and 9 everybody can live there in beautiful areas. If you 9 everything, but we haven't really -- I think we forget 10 look at the maps for Kahului right now, there's a 10 that they're about where -- where people really want to 11 complete main system running through the Light 11 live, where residents really want to live. And I think 12 Industrial area. So there could be quite the 12 Trevor, you know, brought that point up very well. 13 infrastructure for neighborhoods and where people can 13 Because I know, you know, similarly my family, 14 live. They could be beautiful. Right now, we have 14 nobody wants to live in Lahaina. It wouldn't matter if 15 ugly. And all we're gonna be doing is spreading out 15 they worked there or whatever. They just don't want to. 16 further and leaving that ugly and creating more sprawl. 16 I mean, the desirability would be in town or Upcountry. 17 So I don't understand it. I wish people could 17 That's just the way it is. So I think by creating this 18 start thinking along the lines of redoing what we did 18 deficit in the Central Maui area, we're not 19 wrong in putting folks right -- still right here in 19 acknowledging that desire to really just simply be in 20 Kahului. 20 town. 21 CHAIR CANNON: Others? Okay. Move around 21 What is the current motion? Is there an 22 this way. 22 amendment? 23 Jeanne. 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: There's no motion. 24 MEMBER SKOG: I have a comment, but I need to 24 MEMBER SKOG: There is no motion? So what are 25 get some information. Woops. Can you put the map back 25 the -- I'm trying to remember -- huh? 65 (Pages 254 to 257) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 258 Page 260 1 CHAIR CANNON: Trevor. 1 Stan. 2 MEMBER TOKISHI: Would it be possible, staff, 2 Discussion? 3 to overlay, I guess, what projects were cut out of this 3 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 4 area, proposed projects? Like maybe part of the Waiale 4 I would like to amend the map as it is 5 or Waikapu Village or whatever, to overlay to see how 5 designed, that we have in front of us. We have talked 6 much was cut out from those proposed projects? 6 about creating small towns with hard edges. And to me, 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chair? 7 I would like to see -- and like Susan said, there are 8 CHAIR CANNON: I think Stan was first. He's 8 green areas in this block of development. So I would 9 been waiting. 9 not like to see the Waiale development sprawling past 10 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Mine was just a comment on 10 Waiko Road to create a hard edge to the project because 11 the IRC from the rest of this. But you're going to see 11 what we have now, we have a sprawl that's happening and 12 it when you pull up the overlay. Can I comment while is 12 that was -- I think Dave Ward made this comment. He had 13 he doing that? 13 some pictures that he showed us back in September of the 14 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 14 development growing and if it continued developing. 15 MEMBER MOIKEHA: You see where it says Waiale 15 What is happening is moving Kahului and Wailuku all the 16 workforce of 54 acres, that was pulled back more into 16 way down to Maalaea at some point in time. That's the 17 the initial project. And, really, what got cut off is 17 direction we're going as an island. So we have to -- if 18 up to the left there. There is some more development 18 we're gonna have green spaces and places that people -- 19 there as part of Waiale. This front piece was their 19 I understand the feeling that we need to develop housing 20 design for the regional park that borders the highway. 20 for local people, because that's the organization I'm 21 So things kind of -- see, you can see up in the corner, 21 involved with. But we need to make some sense out of 22 all of that got cut off. And then the initial 40 acres, 22 this planning so that we don't have everything just 23 I'm not sure, somewhere close to here, was moved out 23 running together. 24 into Maui -- Kahului. So there was a decision to make 24 We don't want to be like leeward Oahu or 25 -- move that out. Now, that came as a condition of 25 Kapolei. If you go down there, my -- my cousin lives in Page 259 Page 261 1 A&B's business park over by Zippy's, that area. They 1 Ewa Beach. And I don't even want to see her now because 2 were conditioned with, I think it was, 50 acres of -- 2 it's so darn crowded just getting to where she lives. 3 for affordable housing. So that got moved to Kahului. 3 So we don't want that to happen. I think that's the 4 And then the extension of the initial regional park in 4 whole planning purpose of this planning process. 5 the front got pushed all the way to the back and up to 5 So I would like to amend the plan to create a 6 the left. 6 hard edge so that Waiale -- the Waiale development ends 7 CHAIR CANNON: The concept was to put a 7 at Waiko Road. 8 separation between Kahului and Waikapu, basically, and 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Which side of Waiko Road? 9 Waiale, which is kind of becoming Waikapu, also. 9 Right now it goes through it. 10 Stan. 10 MEMBER FRANCO: Kahului side of Waiko Road. 11 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I think, Chair, just to add 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The suggestion is that -- 12 to that, too -- and this is what we heard, too, during 12 Stan, please correct me. What you're suggesting is that 13 the IRC, if you recall -- within your project design, 13 Waiale begin here at the north and extend it down 14 you call out these buffers. So it's not only that we 14 through here, across Waiko Road, along Kuihelani Highway 15 have to do it on the map, but it's most appropriate that 15 to this area here, and delete this area you're asking to 16 it's done. And if you look at their project, that's 16 be deleted, is that correct? 17 what they did. They called out the buffers right there 17 MEMBER FRANCO: No, I'm not saying that. I'm 18 in towards the front of the parcel. 18 saying that the proposal by A&B is to develop the entire 19 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 19 area from where Maui Lani stops all the way down to 20 I'm just wondering -- I want to ask a 20 where they have it beyond Waiko Road. I want it to stop 21 question, and then I want to create an amendment, if 21 at Waiko Road. The current development, take out the 22 possible. Is there an approval of this map? Is there a 22 greenbelt, they have green zones like a regional park in 23 motion to -- I move to approve this map. 23 the plan, but don't go any further than Waiko Road. 24 MEMBER deNAIE: Second. 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Let me ask one 25 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Lucienne, moved by 25 question. What about the unit size, the number of 66 (Pages 258 to 261) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 262 Page 264 1 units? They have 25, 52 now in units. Do you -- 1 Pellegrino. Just to let you know that, what Stan is 2 MEMBER FRANCO: The answer will be 2 proposing, East Waiko has a natural boundary of the 3 recalculated. I didn't do the recalculation as to how 3 Waikapu Stream. Actually, it's a dry streambed right 4 many units would be then created compared to what we 4 now because the water is diverted west of Honoapiilani 5 have now. 5 Highway. But that would, I think, help with what you're 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The reason I asked that, 6 talking about, Stan. But below that, then, it is open 7 because the area you're adding -- could we go back to 7 field. So that there would have to be some other kind 8 the other one, just to be clear? This area that you're 8 of separation or a buffer. But there's a natural 9 adding, this greenbelt, is considerably larger than this 9 feature there that does separate East Waiko Road from 10 area that you're taking out here. So this would mean -- 10 the Wailuku side and Waiale side and then going towards 11 if -- what you're saying, that a lot more units would 11 Kihei. 12 fit in that area. So I just want to know what you want 12 CHAIR CANNON: So your motion -- that's a 13 to do about the unit count? 13 motion, Stan? 14 CHAIR CANNON: Are you suggesting to remove 14 MEMBER FRANCO: Yes. 15 the greenbelt? 15 CHAIR CANNON: Was there a second? Seconded 16 MEMBER FRANCO: I am saying -- yes. I'm 16 by Carl. 17 saying that A&B has proposed a development beyond Waiko 17 Further discussion? 18 Road. I'm just saying that we should -- if we want to 18 Hans. 19 create hard edges on our developments, as we have said 19 MEMBER MICHEL: Please show us exactly where 20 in our documents, then the development should not go out 20 the Waiko Road comes down from the garbage dump, coming 21 beyond Waiko Road. So that we don't create a area 21 down from the old garbage dump. It comes down to the -- 22 where -- it's right now in agriculture, and take that 22 okay. If you take away that pipe which Stan was talking 23 out of agriculture. 23 about, will be a good idea because we have cane field 24 Now, as far as the greenbelt, I have no 24 up, we have cane field down, people talks about the 25 feeling one way or the other how you folks want to do 25 smell, no can breathe, asthma, dust, all kind of things. Page 263 Page 265 1 that. I'm just telling you that I believe that it 1 And in turn, we give them the greenbelt, which you was 2 should be a hard edge to Waiale. 2 talking going towards Maui Lani. But Maui Lani, if you 3 CHAIR CANNON: So your proposal leads to a 3 put on the map, I think that was the old rubbish dump, 4 greenbelt there, just reduces the size of Waiale, is 4 you no can build on top there. 5 that correct? 5 How big is that area, Mark? Would you show us 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: No. 6 that? That was part of the old Maui County rubbish 7 MEMBER VICENS: Putting words in his mouth. 7 dump. And how big is that area? No, no. 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: He wants to include this 8 Instead, you put park. Because whenever it 9 area all the way through here, that would be all 9 sinks, you can always repair and fix, yeah. But if you 10 potentially developed, and delete this area down here. 10 put house on top there and it sinks, you never get the 11 So Waiale's boundary would go like this, across here. 11 guys back out there. So we have to look which way we 12 The question is whether -- 12 want to go. But I think we could give Waiale the rest 13 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Across that. 13 of the greenbelt which is all the way down to the 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Across the whole area here 14 highway, going to build houses. 15 down to here. So the whole area would be Waiale. 15 CHAIR CANNON: I just want to ask the 16 CHAIR CANNON: Stan. 16 question, because I'm a little confused. Stan, the 17 MEMBER FRANCO: I think, for me, I don't know 17 reason to put that greenbelt was to separate Waiale from 18 how far it gets up into Waikapu, but I want -- I do want 18 Maui Lani, I guess it's called, up above. And what 19 to separate Waikapu out. And, you know, if we could put 19 you're saying -- or are you saying that you would fill 20 a green area in there to separate Waikapu out, that 20 that greenbelt in, as far as Waiko in, or do you still 21 would be my preference. We are just getting too sprawl 21 want that separation? I know you said you wanted a 22 like. I want to keep Waikapu Town in itself. So we can 22 separation to Waikapu, but there's none on the map yet. 23 put a greenbelt around that, that would be great. 23 So we would have to show where that might be. One of 24 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Wallette. 24 the reasons for the greenbelt is to separate Waikapu, 25 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: Just -- Wallette 25 also. 67 (Pages 262 to 265) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 266 Page 268 1 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco, again. 1 amendment, that we just cleanly bring that down, Waiale 2 You know, we can put regional parks, you know, 2 Road to Waiko Road, and just delete everything mauka of 3 as greenways, between those two town areas. You know, I 3 that. 4 don't know the full extent of A&B's development, maybe 4 CHAIR CANNON: Is that a motion? 5 Chubby can respond to that. How much green areas they 5 MEMBER BERTRAM: Well, it's a suggestion to 6 have between Maui Lani and the proposed Waiale 6 the motion maker. 7 development. I think we need green areas, no doubt, 7 CHAIR CANNON: Stan. 8 between, you know, towns and so that we create 8 MEMBER SKOG: Point of order. I think he 9 separation, but, you know, how extensive it is -- we 9 should just make a motion, be really clean about this, 10 don't want to create such small numbers, looks like we 10 we vote it up or down and then go from there, rather 11 have a deficit. I'm hearing from people in Kahului that 11 than doing friendly amendments. Because it should not 12 they want to have housing, but, you know, I think one of 12 be up to the maker of the motion. 13 the principles that we have been dealing with is what 13 MEMBER BERTRAM: I make a motion now. 14 Joe talked about. We are talking about trying to 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Stan has a motion on the 15 prevent sprawl and we want to create towns and limited 15 floor. 16 town areas. And I'm trying to limit this now to just 16 MEMBER BERTRAM: So do I. 17 Waiko Road as -- as was shared that there is a natural 17 CHAIR CANNON: Motion to amend. 18 boundary there that we can -- you can utilize to signify 18 MEMBER BERTRAM: Okay, motion to amend. I 19 the area. 19 make a motion to amend Stan's motion to just cleanly cut 20 So that's what my thoughts are. 20 it right there and -- 21 MEMBER BERTRAM: Tom. 21 CHAIR CANNON: Can you get the pointer? 22 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 22 MEMBER BERTRAM: Waiko Road down to -- I mean 23 MEMBER BERTRAM: Chair? 23 Waiale Road down to Waiko Road and delete everything. 24 CHAIR CANNON: Joe. 24 CHAIR CANNON: Delete what's on the right? 25 MEMBER BERTRAM: I think a cleaner way of 25 MEMBER BERTRAM: Yes. Page 267 Page 269 1 looking at that would just be to extend the Waiale Road 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That, I believe, is his 2 boundary, you know, at Waikapu. At the bottom, yeah, 2 motion. His motion is to delete this section. 3 just go all the way down, and then just take out Waikapu 3 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 4 Urban. When you look coming in, then you're seeing a -- 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I don't think there's a 5 actually a nice small town in Waikapu, you're seeing 5 change. 6 Kahului being developed as is, Wailuku Urban as is, and 6 MEMBER SKOG: It is. It was just -- 7 you are leaving the Central Valley still pretty much 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: In this? 8 open. Again, I think this is something I remember as a 8 CHAIR CANNON: Who seconded. 9 kid, people saying they're gonna fill the Central Valley 9 MEMBER BRUCE: I'll second. 10 with homes, you know, if we don't support cane, the 10 CHAIR CANNON: Lesley seconds. 11 Central Valley is going to be paved over. And that 11 Further discussion? 12 first Waikapu Urban is actually doing that. 12 Joe moves to amend, and Lesley is seconding. 13 So I love the Waikapu, expanding that, and 13 Further discussion? 14 allowing that to become a town again. But this whole 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Is that correct, Joe? 15 bell at the bottom, just it is more of an expansion into 15 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Wallette. 16 the Central Valley that isn't necessary. And it will 16 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: It's really confusing 17 help to still keep Kahului and Wailuku under half of the 17 right now. 18 valley. 18 MEMBER deNAIE: I don't know what we're voting 19 I've been looking at this every day. I come 19 on. 20 in by plane now once a week. I look down there and I 20 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: Goes from Honoapiilani, it 21 can see where Wailuku, Kahului comes down is halfway 21 winds a bit and it ends up at Kuihelani. On the -- on 22 into the valley. If we go any more, other than giving 22 the east side of East Waiko Road, you have the Waikapu 23 Waikapu a nice -- its own nice town, we're there, we're 23 streambed, right, and then you go into an area of what 24 going to be in Maalaea before we know it. So that would 24 used to be the old sugarcane fields. On the left-hand 25 be mine to make as a friendly amendment to his 25 side of East Waiko, once you get out of the residential 68 (Pages 266 to 269) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 270 Page 272 1 area, you get into a cemetery, you hit the Waiale 1 think. I would like to hear what the Planning 2 intersection which is where Spencer homes subdivision 2 Department -- what they would suggest as far as maybe 3 ends up. It's a dead end right there, Waiale and East 3 proposed plans that have been cut out or where -- where 4 Waiko. And just below that is the beginning of a new 4 they would, if they had their wishes, propose. 5 Industrial area. Then you have what used to be the old 5 CHAIR CANNON: Jeff. 6 Wailuku Agribusiness buildings. Then if you go further 6 MR. HUNT: We would generally support more of 7 down, that's where you see the old Apana dump, which is 7 just an urban growth area and leave the actual site 8 in the process of being cleaned up and is probably going 8 planning to the community. So our proposal would be 9 to take until I'm dead and gone. And then beyond that 9 more to just include the Urban Growth Boundary down like 10 is the road that leads to a composting area. And then 10 this and, with policies and site planning, there may be 11 there's another new Industrial park that has just opened 11 a greenbelt in here or series of green spaces. But that 12 up and is being filled with tenants. So we're dealing 12 would be at the site planning level. 13 with all sorts of things here. So while I understand 13 MEMBER TOKISHI: So given that, that's exactly 14 what Stan is trying to do, you know, to set a real hard 14 where I was going with that, too, I'm gonna be voting 15 line there, you're dealing with lots of things that 15 against Joe's amendment and would make -- if that 16 already exist that would have to be addressed. 16 amendment fails, would make a motion similar to what 17 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion of the motion? 17 Jeff describes. 18 Yes, Trevor. 18 MR. SUMMERS: If I may add to what Jeff said. 19 MEMBER TOKISHI: Trevor Tokishi. 19 The Department is concerned about basic lack of 20 So if I got that motion correct, we would be 20 potential workforce housing in Central and South Maui. 21 losing another 2,300 units or 2,200 units, is that 21 If you look at the numbers, we've got a fairly 22 right? 22 significant deficit in Central and a smaller deficit in 23 MEMBER BERTRAM: As it is based on the 23 South Maui. We do agree with Joe that we can achieve 24 Planning Department's determination that units are based 24 more infill potential. And we'd like to take a chunk of 25 on land use that we currently are employing. So what 25 that through infill, both in Wailuku, Kahului and Kihei. Page 271 Page 273 1 I'm saying is that if we do that, we can look at 1 We don't think we can get all of it through infill, but 2 different land use within the areas we have now so we 2 we'd like to achieve more infill. We had recommended 3 can actually increase units without having to use up 3 about 800 infill units in Kahului and about 400 in 4 more land. 4 Wailuku. We think that's easily achievable during the 5 MEMBER TOKISHI: So your assumed density per 5 plan period. But we -- we do have some concerns about 6 acre would skyrocket? 6 not having enough housing for residents in Central Maui. 7 MEMBER BERTRAM: Not necessarily skyrocket. 7 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion of the motion? 8 When you look up at the Commercial areas as well as 8 Hans. 9 Light Industrial areas, and even the current 9 MEMBER MICHEL: What is the Board of Health 10 neighborhood, basically in the current neighborhood it 10 position to build the subdivision up to the cane field 11 skyrocketed. The homes have gotten so big. We need to 11 which was never here? 12 recreate these neighborhoods so that they are -- 12 CHAIR CANNON: Say again, Hans. 13 actually incorporate what people are doing right now, 13 MEMBER MICHEL: What is the Board of Health 14 which is much more of a multifamily as well as single 14 position building new subdivision up the cane field 15 family and some kind of neighborhood stores. But I'm 15 which never was a town before? 16 just -- my point is just that if we continue to plan 16 CHAIR CANNON: What does the Board of Health 17 along the land use patterns and policies that have 17 think about that? 18 driven us to sprawl. And if we continue that, then 18 MEMBER MICHEL: Yeah. Because the haoles are 19 that's what we're going to get. 19 all complaining about smoke, dust, pollution and noise. 20 MEMBER TOKISHI: I can appreciate the 20 We going to weigh all that on the west side. There's 21 anti-sprawl and I can appreciate the buffer zones, but 21 none in Olowalu, there's none in Ukumehame, there's 22 what I feel is it's pretty dense already in that Maui 22 nothing anywhere in Lahaina. And everybody was talking 23 Lani area, the Legends and everything. Zero lot lines 23 about building house on the west side of. And here you 24 on 4,000 square foot lots, it's pretty tight. Taking 24 guys like to build new towns into the dirt, into the 25 out that many units is gonna make it a lot denser, I 25 dust and the noise. 69 (Pages 270 to 273) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 274 Page 276 1 CHAIR CANNON: Good point. Anyone else? 1 south of that particular area. And so the total area on 2 Joe -- John. 2 the Kahului side of Waiko Road is approximately 479 3 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: John from Hana. 3 acres. The property east of Waiko Road is around 385 or 4 Does anyone have a compromise? I mean, I'm 4 400. Something in that -- in that vein. So that was 5 sympathetic to what Trevor and the Planning Department 5 the compromise. The compromise was to be able to 6 are saying, and I also am sympathetic to what Stan and 6 maintain a greenbelt. And, as Luci said, when I -- at 7 Joe, I think, are trying to do. And that's to make a 7 IRC, I lobbied that actually that that project belongs 8 hard edge to Kahului, once and for all. So is there -- 8 in Kahului. It is a Kahului project. And, you know, 9 does somebody have an in-between suggestion? 9 the IRC felt differently about it. So I don't think 10 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 10 that -- you know, the question is, do you want 700 or 11 MEMBER deNAIE: Sorry, I don't have an answer 11 800 acres in the middle of our -- of our town to be 12 to that, but I have one question. I'm not quite sure 12 developed, because that's exactly what you're saying. 13 what the actual motion is, one. And, two, I -- I 13 And it's exactly what may happen. 14 believe that the landowners consider Waiale an extension 14 Thank you. 15 of Kahului, but I wonder if we should look at it as a 15 CHAIR CANNON: You're referring to the 16 new town that is neither Waikapu nor Kahului, but is its 16 greenbelt, Chubby? 17 own town. And if so, you know, just look at the things 17 MEMBER VICENS: I'm referring to the total 18 that we want to see in a new town there and look at it 18 area. Joe wants to take it all out, he wants to take it 19 that way. Maybe that's the compromised position that 19 all out. And Waiale is already fallow. The green 20 you're talking about here, John. But I'd like to -- I'd 20 section -- that whole green section is not in 21 like to know exactly, after Joe and -- I thought Joe and 21 agriculture. It's never been in the 20 years I've been 22 Stan said the same thing, but, evidently, we have two 22 here. So, you know, those are the choices, I guess. 23 motions. And I would just like to know what is being 23 CHAIR CANNON: Susan. 24 proposed before we vote. 24 MEMBER MOIKEHA: For clarity purposes, you 25 CHAIR CANNON: Mark, could you turn on the 25 were talking, also, Jeff, to take out that Waiale Page 275 Page 277 1 green triangle again that you have right there? 1 workforce, 54 acres, also? No? 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I think Joe was saying he 2 I'm not going to support the motion. I think 3 essentially wants the border line to stop right here and 3 the way we had projected it and it came out of the IRC, 4 wipe out all of this. That's Joe's thing. And his 4 I think, is good. And so I will not be supporting your 5 amendment to Stan's idea was different than that. Stan 5 amendments. 6 wanted to include up to here and stop and go down to 6 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion of the motion? 7 Waiko Road, and include this whole area in the proposal. 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I would like to call the 8 So Joe wants to wipe it all out. Stan wanted to keep 8 question. 9 this in there. 9 CHAIR CANNON: The motion is to remove what is 10 CHAIR CANNON: Everyone clear on the motion? 10 called Waikapu Urban there. All those in favor of the 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: First we got -- 11 motion, indicate by raising your hand. Three in favor. 12 CHAIR CANNON: Hans, you had a chance. 12 All opposed? Twelve opposed. 13 Chubby. 13 Abstaining? Six abstaining. 14 MEMBER VICENS: Chubby Vicens. 14 So the motion fails. 15 The concept of the greenbelt was one that 15 MEMBER BERTRAM: Back to the original motion. 16 Alexander & Baldwin has been talking to the County for a 16 CHAIR CANNON: Oh, we're back on the original 17 long, long time, to be able to develop a regional park 17 motion, which is Stan's, to stop Waikapu Urban at Waiko 18 from Kuihelani up the valley and surround it. So 18 Road. And is that to leave the greenbelt in or not? I 19 that -- because on the top part of the -- of that green 19 still am mixed up on that. Take it away? 20 area, there are burials, approximately anywhere between 20 MEMBER FRANCO: Yes. 21 11 and 20 acres of AV that has to be respected. So that 21 CHAIR CANNON: To allow Waikapu Urban to go up 22 was one of the reasons that they had talked about 22 and touch the existing, whatever that is, Maui Lani 23 leaving a greenbelt to separate the Maui Lani project 23 Extension of Dream City, and to stop at Waiko Road. 24 from the Alexander & Baldwin project. 24 Dick. 25 The tradeoff there was to go further east and 25 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I would like to amend that 70 (Pages 274 to 277) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 278 Page 280 1 motion. I would like to see a greenbelt kept between 1 straight down to the highway this way. Look. Here, 2 Kahului and Waiale. I don't think it necessarily has to 2 look. You come down this way now. 3 be as wide as this. I would like to see the old dump 3 CHAIR CANNON: He is working on what Dick has 4 area -- this is the dump area -- across here and then 4 proposed, that that -- what is red is actually -- there 5 across here, leaving some space here between the two. 5 you go. So that's what Dick is proposing. 6 In other words, I would like to see a greenbelt -- I'm 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: And continuing down to this 7 not sure what that is. 7 point here. Total separation of Waiale from Waikapu. 8 CHAIR CANNON: He's taking away the greenbelt. 8 CHAIR CANNON: 200-yard greenbelt. 9 MR. HUNT: It's Stan's motion. 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: 200-yard greenbelt. This 10 CHAIR CANNON: That's Stan's motion. 10 is from the IRC proposal, this is expanding the Waiale 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Stan's motion comes all the 11 community to include this area up in here. 12 way down to here. 12 MEMBER MICHEL: Excuse me? 13 MEMBER MOIKEHA: That's why it's all in the 13 CHAIR CANNON: Hans. 14 same color. 14 MEMBER MICHEL: I would like to indicate by 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Two reds. Two reds, okay. 15 the greenbelt a little more down to the main highway, 16 And I'm saying I would like to see some kind of 16 because the solar system is going on the main road 17 greenbelt kept between Waiale here and Waikapu here and 17 someplace in the middle. So you have to be more 18 between Waiale and Maui Lani up here so that there be a 18 practical and bring that brown spot more down. I don't 19 greenbelt here, down like this, and, also, a greenbelt 19 have the light for show you. 20 across here, not necessarily as wide as this big one is 20 Thank you. 21 right now. 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I couldn't hear you. Which 22 CHAIR CANNON: Is there -- 22 area? 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: And I would like to propose 23 MEMBER deNAIE: May I clarify, Dick? 24 it. And I'm going to give a number to stay 200 yards, 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Please. 25 600 feet here and 600 feet along this boundary here, and 25 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Lucienne. Page 279 Page 281 1 the rest of it all the way down to here be Waiale. 1 MEMBER deNAIE: The area that's above the 2 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 2 green there, if you brought that down to the highway -- 3 MEMBER SKOG: Second. 3 MEMBER MICHEL: Straight down. 4 CHAIR CANNON: Joe. 4 MEMBER deNAIE: No. To Kuihelani Highway, 5 MEMBER BERTRAM: I would like to second except 5 that's what Hans is saying. So that you have the sewer 6 I don't want to include -- I like keeping the 6 and everything. 7 separation, but not addressing in -- 7 MEMBER MICHEL: And water. The sewer and the 8 CHAIR CANNON: Say again. 8 water comes from the main line. 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I will do the motion again 9 MEMBER deNAIE: That's what he is saying. 10 just so people are clear. I would like to see a 10 MEMBER MICHEL: Straight down, they can extend 11 200-yard belt of green right here, right -- separating 11 maybe another 75 or 80 houses more to build since we 12 Waiale over on this side from Waikapu. Then I would 12 take away the pie piece down here. 13 like to see another 200 yards barrier along here to 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: My motion did not take away 14 separate Waiale from Maui Lani. 14 the pie piece here. My motion was that Maui Lani -- my 15 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 15 -- Waiale be allowed to do this way, but the only 16 MEMBER BERTRAM: Second that. 16 purpose -- my main purpose of my motion is to create a 17 CHAIR CANNON: Joe, okay. 17 greenbelt between Waiale and its two adjoining 18 Further discussion? 18 communities, here and here. 19 Can you put those greenbelts in or is that 19 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 20 difficult? 20 MEMBER deNAIE: Well, this is really confusing 21 Hans. 21 because if you look at the original plan for Waiale, 22 MEMBER MICHEL: I would like to give them a 22 they show significantly more green space than Dick has 23 little more land to build the house. I think it was 54 23 indicated. And it just isn't quite contiguous. But it 24 acre. That small little brown spot, from up side, up 24 does address the fact that there -- it's not just a 25 side. Yeah. Okay. That one. So from there, you come 25 green space, there are certain resources there which are 71 (Pages 278 to 281) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 282 Page 284 1 the reasons that the green space was instituted, you 1 and the dump higher up. But, you know, starting at that 2 know. One is the burial area and, you know, the other 2 corner -- well, I hear what you're saying, that it could 3 is the -- you know, the old landfill. And another is, I 3 figure around things, but I don't know how practical 4 guess, an area over on the -- on the Kuilani side that 4 it's going to be the way it's set up now. I mean the 5 is going to serve as a regional park and a gathering 5 way it's portrayed. 6 center, perhaps even a future civic center, you know, 6 MEMBER SKOG: Mr. Chair? 7 and all. So by doing this, we really limit those three 7 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Jeanne. 8 other areas -- or those two other areas that were 8 MEMBER SKOG: I would like to make a motion to 9 proposed and end up with less open space there. I don't 9 amend Dick's motion so it would do exactly that, but 10 know if you have the original plan and are looking at 10 with -- instead of drawing the greenbelt, the -- it 11 it, but I -- I don't think I would support this. I 11 would have a statement about wanting a greenbelt to 12 mean, your intention is good, but I don't think I would 12 distinguish the communities. And then it would take 13 support it. 13 care of Lucienne's concerns on exactly how putting the 14 CHAIR CANNON: Dick. 14 greenbelt, et cetera, the concept of the separation 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah, this is -- we're not 15 would be part of the motion. That's my amendment, 16 doing any site development within Waiale. Given this 16 versus -- 17 configuration of separating, it will be up to the 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Could I ask if the other 18 company now to configure all of that land that we would 18 one could be that it be approximately 200 yards, 19 allow within the urban growth to make it the best 19 conceptually 200 yards rather than that? I mean, that's 20 possible community there. They talk about several 20 my concept, there might be a place where it's only 50 21 neighborhoods within here, within that area. I'm not 21 yards, or 200 or 300. Just that it be approximately 200 22 looking green space, that will be decided by -- actually 22 yards so there really is a distinct separation between 23 getting more density -- excuse me -- more space to work 23 the communities, that's all I'm asking for, not a number 24 in this configuration. 24 per se. 25 CHAIR CANNON: So you've got it right, Mark, 25 MEMBER SKOG: The problem I have with the 200 Page 283 Page 285 1 except for that bottom triangle. Green triangle needs 1 yards is I don't know what that is. I don't know what 2 to come out. 2 200 yards looks like. 3 MEMBER MOIKEHA: No. Red. 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: It's to scale. 4 CHAIR CANNON: Yeah. So that -- there you go. 4 MEMBER SKOG: I know you said up to 200 yards. 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's correct. That's the 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is to scale. 6 configuration I'm saying Waiale should be just -- and 6 CHAIR CANNON: Two football fields. 7 this -- let me just say this line does not have to be a 7 MEMBER VICENS: Two football fields. 8 ruler line if it goes around this way in a little bit 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: But this is to scale. 9 and out. The main point is that there be a separation 9 MEMBER SKOG: I will change it to say up to 10 between this community and that community. Exact feet, 10 200 yards. So the concept is to put in the greenbelt 11 roughly 600 feet. 11 that allows for the separation. The greenbelt would be 12 CHAIR CANNON: So that would be a minimum 12 up to 200 yards. 13 line. 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: More than or less than. 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Correct. 14 MEMBER SKOG: You said 200. So I said up to. 15 CHAIR CANNON: At least, then. 15 CHAIR CANNON: He's saying more minimum, at 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Approximately that line, 16 least. Okay. 17 about that line. 17 MEMBER SKOG: I was just trying to get it out 18 CHAIR CANNON: Further discussion? 18 of having to draw this thing. I think the concept is a 19 MEMBER SKOG: Mr. Chair? 19 good one. So I was trying to get concepts in there. 20 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 20 And that might address Lucienne's concerns about, well, 21 MEMBER deNAIE: I also think that, you know, 21 geez, there's stuff under there so how do you put a 22 we have a problem at the corner of Waiko and Waiale 22 greenbelt when there's activity. 23 Road. You know, there's an Industrial area there, then 23 CHAIR CANNON: Chubby. 24 there's some sort of like a drainage facility and stuff 24 MEMBER VICENS: Mr. Chairman, Chubby Vicens. 25 there. There's a lot of stuff already there, you know, 25 200 yards is the length of two football 72 (Pages 282 to 285) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 286 Page 288 1 fields. I mean, that's from here -- from here to the 1 the floor that Dick has put to amend such that you have 2 golf course, guys. That's 200 yards. Okay. I think 2 what you see right there. Is there any more discussion 3 that what we're -- what we're doing now is we're 3 of that motion? 4 starting to tell the community what they need to decide. 4 Yes, Trevor. 5 MEMBER SKOG: I agree. 5 MEMBER TOKISHI: Trevor Tokishi. 6 MEMBER VICENS: My feeling is that suggest a 6 So can someone calculate out for me, with this 7 greenbelt, I agree, but, at the same time, allow the 7 200-yard buffer, what the green space is now versus what 8 community groups to talk about what they want and how 8 the green space was prior to? So did we net gain or 9 they want to see it. Okay. Because it may be more here 9 lose? 10 and less there. But I agree with separation. I can -- 10 MEMBER FILIMOE'ATU: Yeah, we lost. 11 I can see that it can happen. But you want to -- you 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This polygon now, this 12 can't make their decisions 100 percent. And I'm 12 whole area here, how many acres is that? 13 speaking for the community. 13 MEMBER TOKISHI: Right. 14 Thank you. 14 CHAIR CANNON: Is that difficult to figure 15 CHAIR CANNON: Mark, is that 200 now? 200 15 out, Mark? 16 yards, Mark, or are you measuring? You have to narrow 16 MEMBER FILIMOE'ATU: Could be one or two. 17 in on it. 17 CHAIR CANNON: It will take a minute. 18 Other discussion of Dick's motion? 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Want to take a two-minute 19 MEMBER SKOG: No, it's my motion. 19 break? No? Mark is bringing the green line in. It was 20 CHAIR CANNON: Huh? 20 out too far. And so he's bringing the green line in so 21 MEMBER SKOG: I made a motion to amend Dick's 21 he will be able to measure the whole area. 22 motion, so that it's -- 22 CHAIR CANNON: Just eye-balling it, it looks 23 CHAIR CANNON: Dick's motion was amending 23 about the same. 24 Stan's motion. 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Looks bigger. 25 MEMBER SKOG: Right. 25 CHAIR CANNON: Pretty close. Maybe a little Page 287 Page 289 1 CHAIR CANNON: You're amending the amendment. 1 less. Looks pretty close. Do you want it exact? Mark, 2 MEMBER SKOG: Yes. And I'm amending -- I'm 2 is that something you can do? 3 moving to amend Dick's motion so that it doesn't draw 3 MR. KING: No. 4 the greenbelt, it just includes the direction that the 4 CHAIR CANNON: Can't do that. Just eyeball 5 plan includes a greenbelt and the separation between the 5 it. It looks -- 6 two. And I will -- I remove the part about the 200 6 MEMBER TOKISHI: Eye-balling, it looks pretty 7 yards and leave it up to the community. So that's my 7 similar. So I like Dick's concept, but I'm going to 8 motion. 8 vote against this amendment because, like Chubby has 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Can I ask, "up to the 9 said, and everyone else said, I think I'm going to -- I 10 community" meaning what? 10 would like to leave it up to the community with the 11 MEMBER SKOG: Community Plan. 11 concept we want to greenbelt in there, but leave it up. 12 CHAIR CANNON: Are we -- are we -- I thought 12 In fact, I would still move to make it all be Urban in 13 we, at some point, didn't want to have amendments to 13 there and just have the community decide. So I will be 14 amendments. 14 voting against the motion. 15 MEMBER FILIMOE'ATU: Exactly. 15 CHAIR CANNON: Other comments on the motion? 16 MEMBER deNAIE: Yeah, we wanted to vote on 16 (Silence.) 17 them. 17 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor of the 18 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Trying to get there. 18 motion, which is up on the screen before you, please 19 CHAIR CANNON: So we already have one 19 raise your hands. Eight in favor. 20 amendment. 20 All opposed? Eleven opposed. 21 MEMBER FILIMOE'ATU: Yeah. 21 Any abstentions? One abstention. 22 CHAIR CANNON: Let's vote on that one up or 22 So the motion fails. 23 down. If it doesn't work, then we'll go to the next 23 Is there another motion? Stan's motion is the 24 one. If we get amendments on amendments on amendments, 24 one on the floor. So Stan's motion was to stop at 25 it's going to get too confusing. So there's a motion on 25 Waiale Road. 73 (Pages 286 to 289) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 290 Page 292 1 MEMBER FRANCO: Waiko Road. 1 MEMBER TOKISHI: Trevor Tokishi. 2 CHAIR CANNON: Waiko Road, rather. Sorry. 2 I would like to make a motion similar to what 3 MEMBER MICHEL: I second that. 3 Dick had with the exception of calling out a 200-yard 4 CHAIR CANNON: And everything else just stays 4 buffer, leaving a buffer up to the Community Plan. 5 as it shows right now, right? Yeah. Just blocking out 5 CHAIR CANNON: So saying roughly 200 yards. 6 that bottom, whatever is below or south of Waiko Road. 6 MEMBER TOKISHI: Not even saying that. 7 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: With no green space. 7 CHAIR CANNON: No yards, just the buffer. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a greenbelt, Stan? 8 Okay, buffer. 9 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 9 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Second. 10 The green areas, I think Chubby was saying, 10 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Susan. 11 already are part of the design for this area. They have 11 Further discussion? 12 regional parks and everything else designed. And 12 Joe. 13 there's a green space with an old dump. There's a green 13 MEMBER BERTRAM: So I was understanding that, 14 area, because nobody can build on it. So there's green 14 basically, what we have there in establishing Waikapu 15 in it now. 15 Urban asks for a pretty wide separation between Kahului 16 I wanted to make sure that there was an edge 16 and Waikapu Urban. And what this will do will then 17 to Kahului town because of the sprawl concern that have. 17 basically eliminate it off the map and just ask to 18 I might have concerns about separating the different 18 consider it as a buffer of as part of that. So I can't 19 areas, but that's not my concern. 19 support this motion. 20 CHAIR CANNON: You mentioned wanting to 20 CHAIR CANNON: Wallette. 21 separate the two, Waikapu and this -- 21 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: Wallette Pellegrino. 22 MEMBER MICHEL: Maalaea. 22 I also wanted to mention that Waiale soon will 23 CHAIR CANNON: You're not concerned with that? 23 expand all the way out to Honoapiilani Highway by the 24 Okay. All in favor of the motion, please indicate by 24 Maui Tropical Plantation. So we may want to consider 25 raising your hand. 25 including in Trevor's motion the idea of a buffer. Page 291 Page 293 1 MEMBER SKOG: Mr. Chair, I need clarification. 1 Because Waiale will then become a main thoroughfare 2 So on the -- on the top part of the green triangle, is 2 because we will bypass Wailuku. And so there will be 3 there Industrial use in that area? 3 lots of traffic, fast-moving traffic. And so we may be 4 MEMBER deNAIE: Yes. 4 a need for some kind of consideration for a buffer there 5 CHAIR CANNON: That's in what -- in the Urban 5 because of traffic. 6 Growth Boundary by Stan's proposal. It's on -- it's 6 CHAIR CANNON: Trevor. 7 north of Waiko Road. 7 MEMBER TOKISHI: I'm agreeable to that. 8 MEMBER VICENS: It's also east. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. So that's a buffer 9 MEMBER SKOG: So all the Industrial uses in -- 9 between Waikapu and Waiale, is that what you were 10 because it doesn't look like it's in there. That's why 10 requesting? 11 I'm concerned about it. 11 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: No. It would -- what it 12 MEMBER VICENS: It's right there. 12 would do is extend what Trevor is proposing, but it 13 CHAIR CANNON: It's in there. So all those in 13 would take it from that where you have the green light 14 favor, indicate by raising your hand. High, please. 14 now and taking it all the way out to Honoapiilani 15 Eight in favor. 15 Highway. Because that will be the Waiale extension. 16 All opposed? Opposed nice and high so they 16 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. So Trevor is agreeable 17 can see your hands. Twelve opposed. 17 with -- who seconded that? 18 And are there any abstentions? Two 18 MEMBER deNAIE: Susan. 19 abstentions. Three abstentions. 19 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I did. 20 MEMBER TOKISHI: No, no, no. 20 CHAIR CANNON: Are you okay with that? 21 CHAIR CANNON: No. 21 Further discussion on the motion? 22 MEMBER TOKISHI: I voted already. 22 Yes, Chubby. 23 CHAIR CANNON: Two abstentions. And the 23 MEMBER VICENS: Chubby Vicens. 24 motion fails. 24 I just want to point out that, later on, 25 Trevor. 25 you're going to get into the Waikapu and the Waiale 74 (Pages 290 to 293) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 294 Page 296 1 extension road. And I want you to note that there is a 1 shown on the map right now. 2 100-foot buffer on either side of the road proposed by 2 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 3 the Waikapu Partners. So it is not only there, but on 3 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Which is what came out 4 Honoapiilani Highway, also. So there is a buffer that 4 of the IRC, I believe. 5 goes all the way up. There will be a greenbelt along 5 MEMBER VICENS: Second. 6 the river to separate the Industrial areas from it. 6 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Lucienne. 7 Something to consider as we move forward. 7 Further discussion? 8 CHAIR CANNON: Other comments? 8 (Silence.) 9 Yes, Lesley. 9 CHAIR CANNON: All in favor, please raise your 10 MEMBER BRUCE: Lesley Bruce, Hana. 10 hand. How many you got? Thirteen in favor. 11 I would just like to ask that the -- for a 11 All opposed? Four. Four opposed. 12 point of clarification to have the slashes put on the 12 Abstentions? One abstention -- or two 13 burials so that we can see that again. Yes. Thank you. 13 abstentions. 14 CHAIR CANNON: That white, do you see that? 14 The motion carries. 15 MEMBER BRUCE: It's different than the way 15 On to -- 16 we're used to seeing that. Thank you. 16 MEMBER VICENS: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman? 17 CHAIR CANNON: Anything more on the motion? 17 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 18 All those in -- yes, Lucienne. 18 MEMBER VICENS: Just a point. 19 MEMBER deNAIE: So to restate this, we are 19 CHAIR CANNON: Chubby. 20 saying that this whole area that we're seeing, including 20 MEMBER VICENS: Mr. Chun came last week and 21 the workforce housing, should just be in the Urban 21 testified that since the property, including the green 22 Growth Boundary, and, in the Community Plan, they can 22 area and the brown area belongs to one landowner, that 23 decide, but with the idea that there should be an 23 -- and the park designation can be part of Urban, that 24 undescribed buffer zone in there, somehow, and the 24 the properties, right now they're -- as -- it's 25 community can decide where it goes? Is that -- is that 25 separated. It is a contiguous piece. And what he was Page 295 Page 297 1 it, Trevor? Is that kind of what you're saying? 1 proposing is to join along Kuihelani Highway. Right 2 MEMBER TOKISHI: Yeah, that's correct. 2 there, yes. And if you go up to the left of -- where 3 MEMBER deNAIE: Okay. You know, I like the 3 the W is in Waiale, and take it straight up. And that's 4 idea that we tried to look at connectivity. And the 4 a housekeeping matter that he wanted to propose. So I 5 only thing I see in the plan that has been presented in 5 -- I move that we accept that. 6 the charrettes on this project is there are several 6 CHAIR CANNON: We've already passed this 7 green areas, and that's good, but they're not all 7 configuration, I believe, just now. So that would be a 8 connected. So that you had that sense that you could 8 reconsideration if you were going to propose that. 9 travel through that, you know -- that this gives that -- 9 MEMBER VICENS: Can I get a reading from the 10 whatever size it is. So I probably will not be 10 staff? It's a housekeeping item. 11 supporting the motion even though it's late. 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Point of information. I 12 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor of the 12 just want to know what Chubby is suggesting is 13 motion, please raise your hand. 13 housekeeping as opposed to a change. I'm not sure. 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: No, no. I had a -- 14 MEMBER VICENS: It's not a change. 15 CHAIR CANNON: Nine in favor. 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: What are you saying? I'm 16 All opposed? Ten opposed. 16 not sure. 17 All abstentions? One abstention. 17 MEMBER VICENS: I'm saying that the -- all of 18 Motion fails. 18 that property, including the green piece, and that runs 19 Any other motions? 19 along where there's a separation now of a couple edges 20 Has everybody moved for what is showing up 20 on the Kuihelani side, that they all be one piece. And 21 there now? 21 if you move up to where the W is on Waiale, that that 22 MEMBER deNAIE: No. 22 piece continues right up to the -- to the -- where the 23 CHAIR CANNON: John. 23 sand is. So it would just close it and would make it 24 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: I would like to make a 24 all one -- make it all one Urban area. Because parks 25 motion that we approve this portion of the plan as it's 25 are allowed within that definition. 75 (Pages 294 to 297) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 298 Page 300 1 CHAIR CANNON: Dick, did you have a -- 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Where is it in relation to 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. That seems to me to 2 the highway? Here's Waikapu Center and Waikapu Town. 3 be a reconsideration of what we just voted on. We just 3 So -- 4 voted that this greenbelt be kept there, that Waiale 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Is he talking about Waiale? 5 community be this area here, and that this workforce 5 MEMBER TOKISHI: The part cut off was mauka. 6 housing -- I thought that's what we voted for. 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Up here? I'm not sure. 7 MEMBER VICENS: I agree. 7 MEMBER TOKISHI: Mauka south maybe. I got to 8 CHAIR CANNON: No. That is what we voted for. 8 see the overlying map. Is there a map that shows -- 9 MEMBER VICENS: I agree that's what we voted 9 CHAIR CANNON: Do you have that development, 10 for. I'm just suggesting that maybe staff can give us a 10 Mark? 11 reading as to whether that is a housekeeping measure 11 MR. MICHAELSON: The new one? 12 that we need to put in. And if it does, it does; if it 12 CHAIR CANNON: Site plan. 13 doesn't it, doesn't. 13 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Where is it in relation to 14 Thank you. 14 Waikapu? Where is it in relation to Waikapu? 15 CHAIR CANNON: Stan -- John. 15 MEMBER TOKISHI: I can look at that map right 16 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 16 there that Dave has, but -- 17 If I understand correctly, Chubby, you're 17 MR. MICHAELSON: Just a second here. 18 asking that this Urban Growth Boundary come through here 18 CHAIR CANNON: First of all, is there a second 19 and then back up through here? 19 to this motion? 20 MEMBER VICENS: That's correct. 20 MEMBER VICENS: Second. 21 MR. SUMMERS: And that the greenbelt remain? 21 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Chubby. 22 MEMBER VICENS: That's correct. 22 Discussion? 23 MR. SUMMERS: Staff, as Jeff noted, supports 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: On the map I see there, on 24 that concept. We do feel that it's a substantive 24 the Page 2 -- is that the one you're looking at? 25 amendment, but we support it. 25 MEMBER TOKISHI: Yeah. Page 299 Page 301 1 MEMBER VICENS: Okay. Again, is it proper 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: They're talking about areas 2 then to say that staff should look at it and then make 2 here, in this area down here, all along the highway 3 the appropriate changes for the -- before it gets to the 3 here, and then some areas up here above, as TDR sending 4 Commission, or not? 4 areas and they want to use that to -- I'm not sure where 5 CHAIR CANNON: I just heard him. 5 they went to send the -- do you know? 6 MEMBER VICENS: I don't want to. 6 MEMBER TOKISHI: No, I do not. 7 CHAIR CANNON: That it would be a subjective 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Receiving area. Where 8 change. So I -- it would have to be a reconsideration, 8 would the rights to develop go to? 9 moved by somebody on the prevailing side. 9 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 10 MEMBER VICENS: I withdraw. 10 MEMBER deNAIE: I believe if you look at their 11 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Let's move on. Stan's 11 display, you'll see that there are some Rural lots that 12 motion was to accept Map C3 with an amendment, and the 12 would be surrounding the area where the Tropical 13 amendment failed. So we've gotten this portion done. 13 Plantation is, the lighter green. So the darker green 14 And we're voting on the rest of it, everything else you 14 is the -- 15 see on C3 other than what we just approved. All those 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: You're right. I see that. 16 -- is there more discussion on that? Yes, Trevor. 16 Right in here -- 17 MEMBER TOKISHI: I would like to make a motion 17 MEMBER deNAIE: Yeah. 18 to amend, to consider including the Urban area, Waikapu 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: There's one area here, 19 Village, the portions that got cut off in the proposed 19 there's one area here, there's another's area -- yeah. 20 planning project, that was cut off where the current 20 Within -- I think within the Tropical Plantation, it 21 Urban line. So I think it goes a little bit south. Oh, 21 looks like they want to have -- it's really -- the map 22 there you go. 22 is very unclear. Let me see if there's another's map. 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This area? Where are you? 23 MEMBER VICENS: Go to Page 7. 24 MEMBER TOKISHI: I need to look at the 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Huh? 25 overlying map. 25 MEMBER VICENS: Page 7. 76 (Pages 298 to 301) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 302 Page 304 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Thank you. 1 started pouring through it, we found that there is 2 Part of the area is already designated for 2 change. And the change is that they're proposing about 3 development. This is part of their project here, on 3 1,000, 1,100 acres between the south end of the 4 this point here. And then -- and they want to -- I 4 plantation and Maalaea as a -- basically, an ag forest 5 think they want to in this area here have some expansion 5 reserve. Okay. So that was what we were looking for in 6 on the south side of Waikapu Town here. So it's both 6 open space. 7 sides, both sides of this road here. Which there seems 7 The other thing that they -- they -- that has 8 to have already -- I think -- okay. Let me try -- right 8 been changed in the concept is that, as you all know, 9 now, this is -- this area here, the Tropical Plantation 9 the Tropical Plantation is there, it's a -- it's a 10 here is a Project District, as I understand it. 10 restaurant, it's -- and it's not doing well. Okay. And 11 Dave, perhaps you might correct me if I'm 11 they're proposing to work an agreement out with the 12 wrong. 12 Waikapu Community Association to give them that 13 This is a project which has the permission for 13 particular building for a community center. So when I 14 agriculture and some Industrial ag uses that they could 14 looked at all the pros and cons, a lot of agriculture, 15 do within that Project District. What I think they're 15 there's 200 acres of coffee to be planted, I thought 16 suggesting now is they want to put some urban -- some 16 that it would -- it would be a good exchange for the -- 17 residential units into this area coupled with the area 17 for the amount of units that they were requesting. 18 that the IRC recommended on this side over here. 18 CHAIR CANNON: How many units was that? 19 Is that correct, Dave? 19 MEMBER VICENS: I think 1,100. And I did -- 20 CHAIR CANNON: So the boundary doesn't change? 20 1,171 units on both sides of the road. 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The boundaries, it looks 21 CHAIR CANNON: Does that include the 263? 22 like, would not change. But it would be giving them, I 22 MEMBER VICENS: That's right. It includes 23 guess, some urban uses here on this side of the road, 23 that and a total of 139 developable acres not including 24 above -- 24 the 15-acre Public/Quasi-Public, the 50 acres of open 25 CHAIR CANNON: Chubby. 25 space and park and the roads in which total another 35 Page 303 Page 305 1 MEMBER VICENS: Mr. Chairman, I'm looking at 1 acres. So that's why I -- I will -- I would support 2 Page 7 of their plan. 2 this effort. And everybody got a copy of this, so, at 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Right. 3 your leisure, you can take a look at it, but I think 4 MEMBER VICENS: Basically, the property kind 4 that the -- it's an appropriate exchange for what the 5 of extends upward like a finger. And that's the area 5 developer is willing to give up. 6 where you will have -- you'll have coffee planted and 6 CHAIR CANNON: Comments on the motion. Stan. 7 the -- the bounding area around it is all gonna be open 7 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 8 space and forest reserve. And then -- so that's a 8 I personally feel, you know, we have been 9 change in -- in the original. What happened here is 9 doing this for three years, we have our figures and 10 that we had absolutely no information when the IRC got 10 whatever and our maps. And to change at this last 11 it. Okay. So we looked at it and said, well, you know, 11 minute, when the IRC did not get the information until 12 there is something in it for the County with the road, 12 the last minute -- I think there's a couple more 13 you're going to donate the land for the road. And there 13 opportunities if the developer wants to make this 14 was talk about a fire department and a police department 14 proposal, the Planning Commission and the Council. I 15 in the area, which you will see on Page 7, on the bottom 15 don't think we have time to digest all of this 16 section. And because we didn't have any information, we 16 information at this time. So I would suggest that we 17 -- we decided to take it out. Okay. So they -- the 17 not approve this. 18 count, if you will, and we -- we don't like looking at 18 CHAIR CANNON: Other comments on the motion? 19 numbers, but the reason I picked it up is because the 19 Susan. 20 Waikapu area only shows 42 acres and 263 units, which is 20 MEMBER MOIKEHA: All this ag preservation and 21 a reflection of the bottom half of it. Do you see that 21 coffee farming, they still can do that. That's not 22 piece there? 22 gonna preclude them from doing it. You don't need an 23 CHAIR CANNON: Uh-huh. 23 Urban designation for that, correct, Department? Okay. 24 MEMBER VICENS: So when they came in here a 24 CHAIR CANNON: John. 25 week or so ago and gave us this project thing, and we 25 MR. SUMMERS: That's correct. It's our 77 (Pages 302 to 305) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 306 Page 308 1 understanding that they want to do a transfer of 1 MEMBER VICENS: Yes. 2 development right and move all the subdivision potential 2 MEMBER SKOG: But even below the 42, it looks 3 up mauka where the coffee is to conservation subdivision 3 like it's coming across. 4 design. So it's a little different in the sense if they 4 MEMBER VICENS: Only where it attaches to 5 want to -- from reading that material, sounds as if they 5 Honoapiilani Highway. And that is actually the Waiale 6 want to create an ag preserve of some sort. 6 extension, as I'm looking at it now. 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Is that a sending or 7 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Joe. 8 receiving? 8 MEMBER BERTRAM: As much as I respect opinions 9 MR. SUMMERS: That would be a sending area, a 9 of the various folks who are promoting this, it just 10 TDR sending area. I don't have the exact acreage. Then 10 seems like we turned down like Hali'imaile which 11 there would be receiving area up mauka of the Tropical 11 involved a lot of community input and they designed 12 Plantation. 12 something that made a lot of sense, that involved the 13 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 13 community from the get go. And I understand that this 14 Jeanne. 14 came in kind of late time and we could have had that 15 MEMBER SKOG: So, Chubby, from looking at the 15 whole thing. But I just don't feel comfortable without 16 map, it looks like the rest of it, if you look at the 16 more of a vetting by community themselves, seeing this 17 bottom part of the Tropical Plantation, it comes across 17 type of input in. Just the ideas they're putting out 18 Honoapiilani? 18 there, I think they're great. But it just seems like -- 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is -- 19 the saying is more opportunities to come along to make 20 MEMBER SKOG: What they are proposing. No, 20 the case before the Commission or the Council. 21 goes across. 21 So that's it. Thank you. 22 CHAIR CANNON: It already is across. That's 22 CHAIR CANNON: Joe -- John, rather. 23 already -- 23 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: I would like to make a 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is across. 24 motion that we accept Map C3. 25 MEMBER SKOG: No. But it looks like there's 25 CHAIR CANNON: There's a motion on the floor. Page 307 Page 309 1 more than that. Because it comes off the bottom of the 1 All those in favor of the motion, which is to -- 2 Tropical Plantation. 2 MEMBER deNAIE: Mr. Chair? 3 CHAIR CANNON: It doesn't go across. 3 CHAIR CANNON: -- amend, I believe, Stan's 4 MEMBER SKOG: Stretches across the road? 4 motion. 5 MEMBER VICENS: No, it doesn't. 5 MEMBER deNAIE: Mr. Chair? 6 MEMBER SKOG: It does not? 6 CHAIR CANNON: Oh, Lucienne. 7 MEMBER VICENS: No. The only -- 7 MEMBER deNAIE: May I make just one more 8 CHAIR CANNON: Not at the bottom. 8 comment? I understand that this is kind of a new thing 9 MEMBER VICENS: The only areas that touch the 9 for us to review. And I respect the fact that we should 10 Honoapiilani would be the exit or entry into Tropical 10 have had time to digest it in the IRC. It is the first 11 Plantation. And the -- wherever the County and the 11 project that we've seen that is proposing 70 percent 12 State decide that the bypass road will -- will zero out 12 affordable housing. I just want to note that. And, 13 is -- is gonna be there. But it does not -- on the 13 also, that is listening to the kinds of things that 14 bottom section -- south section does not come through. 14 we're saying about using transfer of development rights 15 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 15 and so forth or so on. You know, I don't know enough 16 MEMBER SKOG: Well, looking at Page 7, though, 16 about it to know if it's a wonderful project or a 17 it looks like it does. 17 questionable project or whatever. But I wondered if 18 CHAIR CANNON: Oh, it does cross the road. 18 Wallette, who does live in Waikapu, if she just would be 19 Ah. 19 willing to speak about -- if anyone in the community has 20 MEMBER SKOG: If we're looking at this 20 been approached, knows anything about it, has discussed 21 proposal. 21 it. I think that would help me know how to vote on this 22 MEMBER VICENS: Yes. Excuse me. Yes. You 22 motion. 23 mean coming out of the plantation to the bottom section 23 CHAIR CANNON: Wallette. 24 of the 42 acres? 24 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: A couple years ago, Mike 25 MEMBER SKOG: Yeah. 25 Atherton and Steve (inaudible) came to talk to the 78 (Pages 306 to 309) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 310 Page 312 1 community association to present the original plan which 1 MEMBER MOIKEHA: To make sure that open space 2 was for the Maui Tropical Plantation. Since then, many 2 in the middle outlines already entitled lands. 3 things have changed, of course, the economy. And I did 3 CHAIR CANNON: Right. Right. 4 not hear about this new proposal until Chris Hart 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: So there was only one 5 brought it to us. And after that, Chris called me to 5 amendment to the C3, Waikapu/Kahului map. 6 get some input from me as a member of the Waikapu 6 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. So Stan was here. I saw 7 Community Association. I'm not on their board of 7 him a minute ago. 8 directors, so I'm not speaking for them or on their 8 MEMBER deNAIE: Maybe he's in the lua. 9 behalf. I suggested to Chris that he and the partners 9 CHAIR CANNON: This is your motion, so I 10 go and talk to the officers and the board members. I 10 thought you ought to be here. 11 don't know offhand if they have been contacted yet, but 11 All in favor of the motion to accept C3 with 12 I think that that would be a very important point for 12 the changes, the one change that we made, please raise 13 them. 13 your hand. Seventeen in favor. 14 There are many features of this that I like 14 All opposed? Two. 15 because it will help Waikapu to keep what I consider its 15 The motion carries. 16 character in terms of being a walkable community. My 16 Where are we going now? C4. 17 children before used to be able to walk down to Furukawa 17 Yes, Stacie. 18 Store, which then came to Waikapu Stop, which is now the 18 MEMBER THORLAKSON: Abstained. 19 caterers. And if -- if that is one of the points that 19 CHAIR CANNON: You had a question? Abstained? 20 they would like to encourage, then I think a whole 20 Oh, I'm sorry. Abstained. 21 number of people would be happy to support it. 21 Who is abstaining, please? One. 22 But, again, I cannot speak for the WCA because 22 Thank you very much, Stacie. 23 I do not know if contact was officially made with them. 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: The last map that we 24 I'm just speaking for myself. 24 haven't looked at, at all, is C4, dealing with the south 25 Again, thank you. 25 end of Central Maui. It's been mistitled C. It should Page 311 Page 313 1 CHAIR CANNON: Let's take the vote. All those 1 be really S4 because it's -- it's in Central Maui, it's 2 in favor -- do you need to break right now, or can we 2 the South Maui District, and South Maui District should 3 vote? All those in favor of the motion, please raise 3 have been -- it should have been numbered -- I know it's 4 your hand. 4 got to follow the map. C4 is the map and there are no 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: What exactly -- 5 recommended changes here in this area. Maalaea 6 CHAIR CANNON: The motion is to accept the 6 community, obviously, here and the rest of it is there 7 Waikapu project that we got handed out. Do you 7 are no changes. One urban area over here entitled 8 understand? 8 Pu'unene area, which is Industrial zoned in this 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. 9 district here. 10 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor, raise your 10 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 11 hand. Seven in favor. 11 MEMBER deNAIE: Once again, I'm going to bring 12 All opposed? Ten opposed. 12 up this concept of the Country Town. You know, Maalaea 13 Any abstentions? Three. I see three. 13 is Urban. 14 So the motion fails. 14 MEMBER IWADO: Point of order. We should have 15 We will take a 10-minute recess. 15 a motion before we start discussing. 16 (Recess, 5:58 p.m. to 6:09 p.m.) 16 MEMBER deNAIE: All right. I will make the 17 CHAIR CANNON: Come in and take your seats. 17 motion to accept this map. And I would like to suggest 18 We want to get our work done. I call the meeting back 18 that we consider the Maalaea Urban area as being the 19 to order. And the motion on the floor, Stan's motion is 19 core of a Rural Service Center. I mean, there are some 20 still on the floor to accept the Map C3 with the changes 20 facilities there. There is a gas station and a Carl's 21 we've made. Have we made any changes? 21 Jr. and there, of course, is the aquarium and so forth 22 MEMBER VICENS: I don't think so. 22 and so on. And I think that Maalaea, what we've heard 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: My motion was the only one 23 from the community is that it wants to grow as a small 24 that was accepted. 24 town rather than as just sort of part of Kihei and that 25 CHAIR CANNON: Which was? 25 -- you know, that model. So -- 79 (Pages 310 to 313) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 314 Page 316 1 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 1 heard from a number of folks from Maalaea -- and I think 2 MEMBER FRANCO: Second. 2 Lesley was certainly a long time part-time resident 3 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Stan. The motion 3 there, too -- that they like more the idea of growing, 4 is to accept the Map C4 with the change that Maalaea 4 you know, in a small town variety. 5 Urban would become Rural Service Center. 5 CHAIR CANNON: Okay, Susan. Was there -- I'm 6 MEMBER deNAIE: Well, the portion of it. 6 sorry. Was there a second? 7 CHAIR CANNON: A portion of it. 7 MEMBER deNAIE: Stan seconded. 8 Lucienne. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Susan. 9 MEMBER deNAIE: The portion of it that has 9 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Discussion on the motion -- 10 commercial, you know, it has a commercial center and so 10 clarity from the Department. How does -- Maui do we do 11 forth and so on. 11 something that's already been designated Urban and 12 CHAIR CANNON: Oh, you like the triangle and 12 suddenly change it to Rural Service Center? How does 13 that portion? 13 that impact what's already there and any future 14 MEMBER deNAIE: I think that's the part that 14 entitlement of parcels in there that aren't developed. 15 would be the service center. It's not a full city, 15 CHAIR CANNON: John. 16 doesn't have a library, doesn't have a post office or 16 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 17 anything, but it is like a service center. 17 Staff does have some concerns about applying 18 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. So Rural Service Center. 18 that type of designation in that location. The land 19 Joe. 19 uses in there are pretty intense. You know, it's well 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let me try to make sure. 20 in the service center concept. And again consider 21 So you want the triangle portion here to be the service 21 precedent, other service centers, we want to ensure to 22 center and the condos that are along the coast here in 22 have this really rural feel. So I do have concerns 23 this area up here and over here to remain what? 23 about the proposal. 24 MEMBER deNAIE: I would like those to be 24 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. I'm not gonna support 25 Country Town so that, as it develops, it keeps that 25 the amendment. I appreciate Lucienne's intent here and Page 315 Page 317 1 sense of the small town. I mean, I see Country Town as, 1 I can see that if this should happen to ever expand, 2 you know, the Haiku, the Hana, the Makawao, the Kula. 2 that that's what you would want to do, do any future 3 And I think Maalaea would like to be at that same scale, 3 expansion as a Rural Service Center or Country Town. 4 you know, even if it grew to several thousand more 4 But, again, I'm having trouble with things that are 5 people. 5 already entitled in what may be perceived as unintended 6 CHAIR CANNON: It's been pointed out to me by 6 consequences. 7 staff that if we -- if we do make this a Country Town, 7 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. Other examples of Rural 8 then we're saying, in essence, you might be setting a 8 Service Centers were Keokea. So this is very unlike 9 precedent that other Country Towns can have high rises 9 Keokea. 10 which are now existing in the Maalaea. So you might 10 Lucienne. 11 want to rethink that part of it. 11 MEMBER deNAIE: Well, that's true, because of 12 MEMBER deNAIE: Oh, because they're over four 12 the condos, but, I mean, there are places -- you know, 13 stories, huh? 13 Makawao has quite a bit of Business District and so 14 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 14 forth and so on, you know, much more than Keokea and, 15 MEMBER deNAIE: I stand corrected. I know 15 you know, it's a Country Town. But I -- I see what 16 Makawao has some three stories. 16 you're saying and, you know, I'm still getting used to 17 CHAIR CANNON: Yeah, but these are six and 17 what these designations mean. I was just trying to 18 eight. 18 reflect the fact that folks in that area don't want to 19 MEMBER BRUCE: No. It has only six because of 19 see themselves as an extension of Kahului or, you know, 20 the parking lot. 20 the highly urbanized areas. 21 CHAIR CANNON: Only six because of the parking 21 CHAIR CANNON: They want to keep it small. 22 lot. 22 MEMBER deNAIE: Yeah. So if it helps to 23 MEMBER deNAIE: Okay. Well, let me just stop 23 clarify, withdraw that part of my motion, and remake my 24 with the Rural Service Center, I guess. I don't want to 24 motion to be that we adopt this map as it stands. You 25 get us into setting unfortunate precedent, but we have 25 know, I hear staff's concern. I don't want to like get 80 (Pages 314 to 317) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 318 Page 320 1 out of my pay rate here. 1 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Could we ask if the staff 2 MEMBER MICHEL: I will second that. 2 could describe why they put this Urban and what's in 3 CHAIR CANNON: Stan, you okay with that? 3 that area that makes it an Urban area? 4 Okay. 4 CHAIR CANNON: John. 5 Any further discussion on the motion? 5 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 6 Yes, Joe. 6 There are a number of public type of 7 MEMBER BERTRAM: I will be speaking against 7 facilities and uses that are currently occurring in this 8 the motion mainly because of the Pu'unene Urban. You 8 area and that are proposed in this area that may not be 9 know, I know there's been several discussions about what 9 appropriate in our existing Urban areas. There's also 10 to do with that, including a fairgrounds and other 10 been talk about moving the correctional facility. Staff 11 facilities to be placed up there. But the fact that it 11 would have concerns about eliminating this area. 12 is right in the middle of nothing, and that -- that it 12 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 13 goes against everything we talked about as far as 13 MEMBER deNAIE: My understanding is that we're 14 Economic Development, by putting our fairgrounds in a 14 talking about perhaps a new correctional facility in 15 town just like Kahului. So I would want to see the 15 this area. I mean, it's State land and we don't have, 16 Urban just brought down to only including only just the 16 you know, a lot of land that is in the public domain 17 areas that are already built, including like the drag 17 that's in accessible areas where we need public 18 strip and the -- and the armory. But everything else, 18 facilities, it could be used. So I believe the 19 we should not be putting out there. Getting 19 discussion the IRC that was in support of this is, you 20 infrastructure out there and putting something in the 20 know, if -- if we need community uses here -- Chubby was 21 middle of nowhere is just -- it's -- but that's why I'm 21 mentioning the fire department needs a training area -- 22 voting against it. 22 that you might as well have it someplace where they 23 CHAIR CANNON: That's a motion to amend or -- 23 don't have to go through 100 hoops to just get a permit 24 MEMBER BERTRAM: No, I'm just voting against 24 to do something that the community needs. So the idea 25 this motion. And I'll make the motion if it doesn't 25 was to go beyond the armory and the drag strip and Page 319 Page 321 1 pass. 1 create the whole area as a potential for these different 2 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Hans. 2 facilities and different uses. 3 MEMBER MICHEL: I like to leave what the map 3 CHAIR CANNON: Other comments on the motion? 4 shows. 4 (Silence.) 5 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Any further comments on 5 CHAIR CANNON: Seeing none, all in favor, 6 this side? 6 please raise your hand. 7 Jeanne. 7 MEMBER SKOG: What's the motion? 8 MEMBER SKOG: Can staff pull up the aerial of 8 CHAIR CANNON: The motion is to accept the map 9 that -- that Pu'unene, Pu'unene Urban? 9 as shown on C4. 10 CHAIR CANNON: There you go. 10 All those in favor, raise your hand. 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Come out a little bit. 11 Seventeen in favor. Seventeen in favor. 12 CHAIR CANNON: I assume it's zigzagging 12 All opposed? One. 13 because you're following property lines, is that true? 13 Abstentions? One, I think. One. 14 MEMBER VICENS: Yes. 14 One abstention; one opposed; 17 in favor. The 15 MEMBER SKOG: Is this -- just a couple. So we 15 motion carries. 16 have the -- that baseyard area that has a lot of 16 Are there any more maps? 17 Industrial stuff in as Urban up above, right? And so 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yes, there's one more 18 this is the -- is this the site of the proposed 18 thing, that's West Maui. We -- last time we went 19 fairgrounds? 19 through and made various acceptances, a week ago -- not 20 MEMBER BERTRAM: Yes. There is a proposal for 20 a week ago, seems like a month ago, we approved a bunch 21 that, yes. 21 -- we approved the whole West Maui map and said we would 22 MEMBER SKOG: Staff? 22 come back to it. 23 CHAIR CANNON: Where is the site of the 23 CHAIR CANNON: What map number is that? 24 proposed fairgrounds? Can you point to it? Do you know 24 MEMBER deNAIE: What map? 25 where it is? Not sure. 25 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: W1, 2, 3 and 4. 81 (Pages 318 to 321) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 322 Page 324 1 MEMBER deNAIE: I see. We didn't approve the 1 that? 2 maps. 2 Susan. 3 MEMBER VICENS: You got to make a motion to 3 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I think there was a concern 4 accept the Maps 1, 2, 3 and 4. 4 that the Members didn't feel that we were talking also 5 CHAIR CANNON: Do I hear a motion with regard 5 about what is already existing Urban, we were only 6 to these maps? 6 looking at expansion or new. So to cover all of it, as 7 Susan. 7 we've done after this experience, we're talking about 8 MEMBER MOIKEHA: If I can make a motion to 8 the whole thing. 9 approve Kapalua Map Number W1, Kaanapali Map W2, Lahaina 9 CHAIR CANNON: Further discussion? 10 Town Map W3, Olowalu Map W4. 10 Lucienne. 11 MEMBER VICENS: Second. 11 MEMBER deNAIE: I believe there was a point 12 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by -- who seconded? 12 made, too, about Kula Ridge and whether it should have a 13 Chubby? 13 Rural Growth Boundary around it even though it is ag 14 MR. MICHAELSON: Chubby. 14 lots. 15 CHAIR CANNON: Moved by Susan. 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is West Maui. 16 Further discussion? 16 MEMBER deNAIE: Kapalua Ridge. Excuse me. I 17 Joe. 17 think Warren -- 18 MEMBER BERTRAM: I appreciate us finishing 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Honolua Ridge. 19 this up so quickly. I'll just be voting against it 19 MEMBER deNAIE: Honolua Ridge. He brought 20 because of reduction of Pulelehua. I didn't want it to 20 that up, warren Suzuki. I don't know if the staff made 21 happen to begin with, so I will be voting against this 21 any notes about that. I don't know if we need to do 22 for that. 22 anything. It is ag lots. But he felt, I think, that, 23 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. One thing that doesn't 23 to be consistent, it should maybe be in the Rural Growth 24 show on this map that I -- I believe I heard as part of 24 Boundary as large lot Ag subdivision or large lot Rural 25 the motion to accept was, on W2, where there was a 25 subdivision. Page 323 Page 325 1 greenbelt between Kaanapali 2020 and the development to 1 CHAIR CANNON: Are you suggesting that as an 2 the east of it. So I just want to point that out that 2 amendment? 3 there was a greenbelt involved there and it's not shown 3 MEMBER deNAIE: Well, it was brought up and 4 on the map. So -- 4 discussed. And I think that he was assured that we 5 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chair? 5 would address that when we kind of came to the final 6 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Susan. 6 cleanup of everything. 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: As amended initially. 7 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. So are you proposing it 8 Because some of those things we amended when we were 8 as an amendment? 9 discussing. 9 MEMBER MICHEL: He went home already. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, as amended. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Dick. 11 MEMBER MOIKEHA: So accepting the whole thing 11 MEMBER MICHEL: He is not here. 12 as previously amended. 12 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I would like to make an 13 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Thank you for clarifying 13 amendment to that effect, that the Honolua Ridge project 14 that. 14 have Rural Residential boundaries put on it with the 15 And is that okay with you, seconder? Chubby? 15 same restriction that we said for other Rural 16 MEMBER VICENS: Yes. Yes. 16 Residential, that it cannot be subdivided. 17 CHAIR CANNON: As amended. 17 CHAIR CANNON: Where is that area? 18 MEMBER VICENS: Yes. 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I will show you on the map. 19 CHAIR CANNON: Further discussion? 19 It's this area, these are Rural lots up here. Large 20 Dick. 20 number of them on the original up here. In that area. 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: There was some reason why 21 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 22 we didn't do this last time. And why -- we said we had 22 MEMBER deNAIE: I'll second it. 23 Urban Boundaries or something. I just want to make sure 23 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne seconds. 24 we dot all our "I"s on that. Why we didn't accept it 24 Further discussion to the amendment? 25 last time? Can somebody give me an explanation for 25 Stacie. 82 (Pages 322 to 325) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 326 Page 328 1 MEMBER THORLAKSON: Clarification. And I 1 MEMBER MICHEL: Since you talk Honolua Bay and 2 apologize if this is out of line. But if we are even 2 the Valley for conservation, how come you never put in 3 talking about listening to our voices behind us, our 3 Honokohau Valley? You got more over there to conserve. 4 testifiers and whatnot, when we look at Honolua Bay, 4 How come it's not on the map? 5 there was a lot of people talking about how they didn't 5 CHAIR CANNON: Hans, the motion now on the -- 6 want development there. 6 on the table is to make that area there, which is 7 CHAIR CANNON: Right. 7 purple, yellow and darker purple, Rural. We're not 8 MEMBER THORLAKSON: Correct me if I'm wrong, 8 talking about Honolua or -- 9 because we've got Urban Growth. Is that the correct -- 9 MEMBER MICHEL: But, still, it concern to me 10 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Honolua Bay is further -- 10 because we never brought 'em up to the entire planning. 11 excuse me. Of the area that we're -- this is the area 11 CHAIR CANNON: It's a concern, but it's not 12 that's in red now. I'm suggesting the possibility of 12 the motion on the floor. 13 this area, the Honolua Ridge area be -- let's wait. 13 MEMBER MICHEL: Okay. 14 CHAIR CANNON: Is this -- 14 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Mark. 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: This is the Honolua Ridge 15 MR. KING: Mark, staff. 16 area right here. This is the bay that we're talking 16 On the map, the yellow is zero to five-acre 17 about, that Honolua Bay, and we are not making any -- 17 lots with the smallest that I could find was two-acre. 18 the arguments that we heard about a year ago on Honolua 18 The light brown is five to 10-acre lots. And the dark 19 Bay dealt with this peninsula over here. And that area 19 brown is 10 to 25-acre lots. Then the golf course in 20 is not being considered at all for any kind of 20 between, you can see, is greater than 25 acres. We've 21 development. 21 designated it Ag 2 within our Ag overlay. 22 CHAIR CANNON: And your motion was to put a 22 Thank you. 23 Rural Boundary around -- 23 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Mark. 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Around Honolua Ridge around 24 Can that be Rural with acreage that big, John? 25 here like this. 25 MR. SUMMERS: Yes. Yes, it could. Page 327 Page 329 1 CHAIR CANNON: What is, roughly, Ag 2 1 CHAIR CANNON: So we could have like a Rural 2 between -- 2 20? A minimum lot size, not a maximum? You can't have 3 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: It's now similar to Kula 3 that? Okay. 4 200. I believe -- I believe it's two-acre ag lots along 4 MR. SUMMERS: We wouldn't propose that. We 5 that ridge, unless staff corrects me. 5 would probably go in as this is the recommendation and 6 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. John. 6 take those areas in yellow and designate them as Rural 7 MR. SUMMERS: Mark, can you just spot that? 7 with no subdivision and make it a motion. 8 MR. KING: 60 seconds. 8 CHAIR CANNON: So I want to be clear on this. 9 MEMBER BERTRAM: Lucienne has her hand up. 9 If one of those is 10 acres, one of those yellow 10 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 10 parcels, and we -- and we -- we say this is Rural, can 11 MEMBER deNAIE: I just wanted to clarify for 11 they subdivide, then, that into smaller -- 12 Stacie's question. I appreciate her asking it. Honolua 12 MR. SUMMERS: It depends how the motion is 13 Bay and the valley, that dark green area, are all being 13 made. If it's a two-acre minimum and the lot size is 14 proposed for preservation as well as Lipoa Point, the 14 four acres or more, then they could subdivide. If 15 dark green area. And they were all left out of the 15 there's a provision that no further subdivision occur, 16 Urban Growth Boundary or Rural Growth Boundary. They're 16 then they could not. 17 left in Agriculture and Conservation. And eventually 17 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 18 probably the conservation zone there will grow once some 18 MEMBER deNAIE: Mr. Chair, I mean, we're both 19 sort of deal has been worked out with the County of Maui 19 carrying this forward for Warren because he wanted 20 and Maui Land & Pine. So we have honored the wishes of 20 consistency. And, you know, that's the only reason we 21 the community there. 21 brought it up. I could care less personally, but I -- I 22 CHAIR CANNON: Further discussion on the 22 just think that the motion that was made earlier about 23 motion? 23 Kula Rural subdivisions was that whatever the size of 24 MEMBER MICHEL: Yes. 24 the lot in the subdivision, that it was not subdividable 25 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Hans. 25 to a smaller area. In other words, the lot size is 83 (Pages 326 to 329) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 330 Page 332 1 fixed at what it is now. If this is a hassle for staff, 1 this more like Kula 200 than a farm? 2 we can just leave it as it is, Ag, but I just thought, 2 CHAIR CANNON: Kula 200 is more two-acre lots, 3 you know, out of respect for Warren bringing that up, 3 as I understand it. Right. 4 since he is not here. We said, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll 4 MEMBER BRUCE: But are the people doing -- are 5 get to that. And now we're here. So -- 5 they -- if farmers buy this place -- 6 CHAIR CANNON: It seems like the difference 6 CHAIR CANNON: I'm afraid they have to have a 7 would be that there wouldn't be as much stress on 7 farm plan in order to even put a house on it, right? 8 growing anything if it was Rural. Where if it was Ag, 8 MR. SUMMERS: That is correct. 9 then there would be an incentive to grow something 9 MEMBER BRUCE: I will support Rural. 10 there. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Dick. 11 MEMBER deNAIE: Yeah. 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Question for staff. Jeff, 12 CHAIR CANNON: Other discussion? 12 you said, if it's Ag, they could subdivide, but now was 13 Hans. 13 this subdivided before or after that law said you can no 14 MEMBER MICHEL: What it got sold for in the 14 longer subdivide? 15 first place, Ag, or what it got sold for? 15 CHAIR CANNON: Jeff. 16 CHAIR CANNON: It was sold as Ag. 16 MR. HUNT: I believe I said if you change it 17 MEMBER MICHEL: So bought 'em for Ag? 17 to Rural, they could subdivide. I don't know off the 18 CHAIR CANNON: Yeah. 18 top of my head, but I believe it's subject to the 19 MEMBER MICHEL: Keep it in Ag, make a 19 existing agricultural subdivision law. So it's probably 20 provision no subdivision and that will stop them. 20 already built out to the sliding scale given the size of 21 CHAIR CANNON: Well, it's already -- 21 the lots that are up there now. That's a conclusion. I 22 MEMBER deNAIE: They already got that. 22 can't state that absolutely. 23 CHAIR CANNON: If it remains Ag, they can't 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Thank you. 24 subdivide any further. 24 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 25 MEMBER MICHEL: Leave 'em Ag. And that way, 25 MEMBER deNAIE: I'm going to suggest we Page 331 Page 333 1 no problem. That's what they bought 'em for. 1 abandon this quest if Dick is willing to withdraw his 2 CHAIR CANNON: So you would speak against the 2 motion. After talking to Chubby and others, I think 3 motion, then? 3 that this doesn't fit the Kula model. 4 MEMBER MICHEL: Correct. 4 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. So you're withdrawing 5 CHAIR CANNON: Jeanne. 5 your second, anyway? And you're withdrawing? 6 MEMBER SKOG: So I just want to get more 6 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. 7 clarification from staff. What is the impact of making 7 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. So the motion is to -- 8 this Rural? 8 is no longer with us. And Susan's motion is back on the 9 CHAIR CANNON: Jeff. 9 floor, which is to accept Maps 1, 2 -- W1, W2, W3, W4 as 10 MR. HUNT: If you don't put a restriction on 10 amended the other night. 11 further subdivisions, then the lots could be further 11 All those in favor of the motion, please raise 12 subdivided down to the minimum lot size. 12 your hand. Thirteen in favor. 13 MEMBER SKOG: Let's say we did put the 13 All opposed? Four opposed. 14 restriction in. Now what is the difference between 14 Any abstentions? Two. I see two abstentions. 15 making it Rural and keeping it Ag? 15 The motion carries. 16 MR. HUNT: Then they are no longer under 16 Are we finished with the maps? 17 agricultural requirements. There's certain -- in the Ag 17 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Yes. 18 zone, in order to develop, there's a higher threshold of 18 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: We are finished with the 19 permitting. 19 maps. Congratulations. 20 CHAIR CANNON: You need a farm plan, that kind 20 (Applause.) 21 of thing, right? 21 MEMBER MICHEL: Excuse me, Chair. I would 22 MR. HUNT: Exactly. 22 like to ask for the mass transit plan of this whole 23 CHAIR CANNON: Lesley. 23 thing. We didn't got nothing yet. What happened with 24 MEMBER BRUCE: Lesley Bruce, Hana. 24 that? 25 I just want to ask staff to clarify. This is 25 CHAIR CANNON: Dick, could you take the Chair? 84 (Pages 330 to 333) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 334 Page 336 1 I'd like to make a motion in that regard. 1 CHAIR CANNON: Does this take time, Mark? 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Please, Tom. 2 One-minute recess, I'll be right back. 3 CHAIR CANNON: I would like to move that we 3 (Recess, 6:44 p.m. to 6:45 p.m.) 4 accept the Transit Investigative Committee's routes to 4 CHAIR CANNON: Everyone, we have it up on the 5 be put on the Maui Island Plan with the one exception of 5 screen. 6 moving the station at Pu'unene into the Urban Growth 6 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Excuse me. We are now 7 Boundary as we discussed earlier this evening. 7 reconvened. 8 MEMBER MICHEL: I second. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you, Susan. I think some 9 CHAIR CANNON: Hans seconds. 9 people are still outside. 10 Dick. 10 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Can you bring it down 25 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I have a problem with that. 11 percent? 25 percent? 12 Tom and I talked about this at length. 12 We're back in session? Do we have quorum? 13 CHAIR CANNON: You're chairing this now. 13 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Yes, we do. 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Sorry. I can't talk. 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Right now, the 15 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Let me have it. 15 routes go from the west side to Pu'unene and some South 16 Dick. 16 Maui to Pu'unene and there's a route coming down from 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Thank you. I'm not sure 17 Upcountry here, et cetera. And then there's a route out 18 how many of you even have the map in front of you. 18 to North Maui. 19 CHAIR CANNON: I can get it in a one-minute 19 CHAIR CANNON: Dick, there's two alternatives 20 recess. 20 for going Upcountry. And that's why there's two showing 21 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Or put it on the screen. I 21 there. 22 think it should be available. 22 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. 23 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. I think it is, basically. 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Let me -- there's 24 Did you scan that or did you -- 24 one route here for Upcountry and the other alternative 25 MR. MICHAELSON: No. We have it here. Mark 25 would be here. Not both of them. Either this one or Page 335 Page 337 1 has a version. 1 this one. The point I was making was that I would like 2 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I'll describe my concern. 2 to see one route that goes like this, north, from West 3 Right now, South Maui and West Maui are not easily 3 Maui down through South Maui, and that a separate route 4 connected by a route. And what I'm suggesting is that 4 would go from here to Maalaea, here, over here to 5 there be one route that would go from roughly Kaanapali, 5 Pu'unene and to the airport. So, in other words, people 6 Lahaina, Olowalu, Maalaea, over to Kihei and then down 6 from South Maui and for West Maui would be -- would go 7 south towards Wailea. That route would be one route. 7 to Maalaea, connect up with the -- with like a shuttle 8 And the second route would then run from Maalaea over 8 over here towards the airport. Rather than right now, 9 towards Pu'unene, to the airport. My guess is that 9 everything focuses in on Pu'unene here and I think it 10 those would be the only ones built in the next 15, 20 10 would be easier to have a stop here. And then from 11 years, if at all. But I would put on the map the 11 Pu'unene area, eventually there would be a route that 12 transit corridors for longer into the future out towards 12 would go Upcountry probably here and eventually out 13 Paia and up towards Upcountry. You don't have -- 13 towards North Maui here. 14 CHAIR CANNON: They're included on there. 14 I just think it makes it an easier 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Huh? Do you have the map 15 configuration. It would intersect here. Here is 16 that we have? Is it this one? 16 Kuihelani Highway coming down and Piilani Highway here. 17 CHAIR CANNON: He is bringing it up. 17 Approximately near that intersection, it would go north 18 MEMBER deNAIE: Everybody get? I got extras. 18 of Kealia Pond. So it would have a route that would 19 MEMBER MICHEL: The Planning Department wants 19 come down like that here. 20 one so he knows where he is going. 20 The other thing I wanted to say when I offered 21 MEMBER deNAIE: Do you guys have over here? 21 the mike is that the route coming down through South 22 Here you go. I don't know if it's the same thing. I 22 Maui would go between the existing urbanized areas and 23 was told to bring it over. 23 the urbanized area that we put up here, not way up above 24 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Probably easier to follow 24 it, but, rather, go through that green zone. It's a 25 it if we have it up on the screen. 25 greenbelt, transportation greenbelt that would go like 85 (Pages 334 to 337) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 338 Page 340 1 that. That's my suggestion. I will make that into a 1 facilities out in Pu'unene area, you know, at the old -- 2 motion. 2 the armory site and the old airport site, that we would 3 CHAIR CANNON: Motion to amend? 3 not have a transit linkup to them. And so I would want 4 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Motion to amend. 4 to make sure that we could have that transit linkup, at 5 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Excuse me. 5 least in our conceptual system here, because I think 6 CHAIR CANNON: I'm asking. 6 that makes sense. So that's my only comment right now. 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. So we have a motion to 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Hinano. 8 amend. And I need a second. Lucienne is seconding that 8 Chubby, comments to the motion? 9 motion. We'll have discussion on Dick's motion. And 9 Frank. 10 I'll start with Lucienne and work our way around the 10 John. 11 room. 11 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: I will support what the 12 MEMBER SKOG: Point of information. I want to 12 Committee wants to do with this. I think it's very 13 ask the Planning Department what is the ramifications of 13 important that we pass these transportation corridors in 14 approving this map or this -- this transportation 14 some form because we are advisory. People that are 15 corridor proposal unless it's advisory? 15 advocates for this and advocates for certain routes will 16 MEMBER MICHEL: It is advisory. 16 be able to do so through the Planning Commission and the 17 MEMBER SKOG: Well, but in some earlier maps 17 County Council. So I urge everyone to pass this in some 18 that were done, we had to stipulate that they were 18 form and be open to trying to get the best routes for 19 advise -- there was some language about them being 19 all of us before the end of this process. And just not 20 advisory. I don't know if the language was advisory or 20 to -- I think to obstruct this idea at this point is 21 whatever, but it had a different -- what do I want to 21 really not right. 22 say? It had a different impact on decision-makers and 22 Thank you. 23 policymakers based on language we used and characterized 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Joe or Lisa, speaking to the 24 to the maps. So I wanted clarification on the map. 24 motion? 25 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I believe that was correct 25 MEMBER HAMILTON: Yeah, I agree. I agree with Page 339 Page 341 1 because we discussed that during a cultural heritage 1 what John says, let's get on with it. This is going to 2 maps and we did add that terminology. So I want to ask 2 be -- this should be advisory. 3 John Summers if he could explain. 3 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Joe. 4 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 4 MEMBER BERTRAM: No. 5 I don't see that language on this paper map. 5 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Hans. 6 So that would be an important consideration to clarify, 6 MEMBER MICHEL: John Blumer-Buell made it 7 whether it has regulatory implications. 7 right the way he explained it. My thing is here, we 8 MEMBER SKOG: So without putting advisory on 8 have to go a little further on the west side and go all 9 there, it has regulatory implications? 9 the way to Kapalua. Why, it's easy to go all the way to 10 MR. SUMMERS: Well, what I'm suggesting is 10 Kapalua because we have Haul Cane Road from Pioneer Mill 11 that one could read into it that, when subdivisions 11 still exists all the way almost until there. That's 12 occur, we would require that the right-of-way be 12 where you can put your train system. And I believe we 13 dedicated. There are a number of different ways that 13 need a corridor, a study has to be done. And we cannot 14 this could be implemented. And so I think the Committee 14 leave it out without somebody will build something. And 15 should be clear about the purpose of the map. Is it 15 for the bypass people in Lahaina, who will come to 16 conceptual in nature or is it more definitive. 16 Lahaina two weeks from now, he wants to know how this 17 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. At this time we're 17 train system will work parallel to the bypass. And they 18 gonna go around the room, starting with Lucienne. If 18 was mentioning about at one time make a six-lane highway 19 you have questions for clarity, then you can ask it at 19 which I thought was a little bit plenty. But we can 20 the time I come to you. 20 have a four-lane highway come on through Wailuku, and 21 Go ahead, Lucienne. 21 the train system, I don't think we need much more than 22 MEMBER deNAIE: Thank you. 22 that. 23 I'm trying to figure out -- I seconded the 23 That's all I have to say. 24 motion just so we could discuss it. But I am concerned 24 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Warren. 25 that if we change the route that if we do have public 25 MEMBER SHIBUYA: It's Warren Shibuya from 86 (Pages 338 to 341) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 342 Page 344 1 Kula. 1 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. I need some advice here 2 This entire corridor was a concept both by the 2 because I -- I would support this if it's advisory, so I 3 Transit and as well as the Infrastructure group. There 3 want to put the advisory language in here. But you're 4 were two groups, actually, that considered this. And 4 saying you're an amendment already to another motion? 5 they wrote in the policies and actions that this study 5 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: My amendment would be -- 6 would be -- a study would be recommended to identify 6 and this would be conceptual. I just agree that the 7 specific easements for this corridor, for this mass 7 concept should be that -- that it come across -- where 8 transit system. They also included a study to identify 8 is that button? Come across above the north of the -- 9 at least two alternative mass transit systems. That 9 north of the pond, over to here and connect up here. 10 would be -- whatever the two systems that they would 10 And not have two routes. 11 identify, they would show and provide the public with 11 MEMBER SKOG: So at this stage -- I'm sorry. 12 information as to some advantages and disadvantages of 12 So at this stage, in order for me to get language in 13 each of the systems. 13 here about it being an advisory map, I have to wait 14 The whole idea here is that this group does 14 until we finish with this procedure? Because we cannot 15 not have the corporate knowledge for each of the 15 take another amendment, is that correct? 16 specific systems nor the geography that is best suited 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: My idea is just the 17 for these easements. So that's why the group identified 17 routing. What we do with that thing afterwards, how 18 specific studies to be released at conclusion of this -- 18 it's -- how we want to translate that into a 19 this GPAC. The maps that you see are actually 19 recommendation, advice, these are the -- this is 20 conceptual drawings developed by the first investigative 20 concrete, that would be up to the full body. So I will 21 group. And this was presented to the GPAC as a whole. 21 only talk about the routes. 22 And the GPAC at that time thought it was gonna be part 22 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. 23 of law. It had no intention of being part of law. It 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: So that everybody is clear, 24 was just an advisory thing. It just the concept that 24 we're only talking about the routes. Any additional 25 needed to be thought of and that the easements -- if we 25 information about advisory, a mode of transportation Page 343 Page 345 1 do not identify the easements, it will cost us even more 1 will be discussed after his proposed conceptual routes. 2 because we'll have the same problems that Oahu is 2 Carl. 3 experiencing now by use of eminent domain. And that is 3 MEMBER LINDQUIST: No. 4 not what we want for Maui. 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Lesley. 5 So I yield. 5 Wallette. 6 Thank you. 6 Stan. 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Warren -- Jeanne. 7 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 8 MEMBER SKOG: I just -- before I make my -- so 8 From what Jeanne is saying, I -- and what 9 there's just one motion on the floor, right? 9 Warren was saying, I will not be voting for this 10 MEMBER MOIKEHA: There's an amendment, Dick's 10 amendment. 11 amendment, to add those connected corridors. 11 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. And -- okay. If there 12 MEMBER SKOG: So there's a motion already and 12 is no further discussion, we'll call for the vote. All 13 then Dick has an amendment? 13 in favor of Dick's motion, please indicate by raising 14 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yes. 14 your hand high. Okay. So we have seven in favor. 15 MEMBER MOIKEHA: We're on the amendment. 15 All those opposed? Six opposed. 16 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. Your amendment is, again? 16 Abstaining? Four abstaining. 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: My amendment would be to 17 So that fails and we will look at other 18 delete -- I'm sorry. My amendment would be to delete 18 motions. 19 the -- this route coming up through here, over here and 19 CHAIR CANNON: We're back to the original 20 over, and just having one connecting route here, across 20 motion, right? 21 here, and there be a station here for all -- that would 21 MEMBER MOIKEHA: We're back to the original 22 be a terminus -- not a terminus, but connecting routes 22 unless there's any further amendments, amended motion. 23 that would connect. So one route up the valley instead 23 Jeanne. 24 of these two routes and this jag over. 24 MEMBER SKOG: I want to move that we accept 25 MEMBER MICHEL: Good idea. 25 this, but as -- but it should indicate that it's 87 (Pages 342 to 345) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 346 Page 348 1 advisory. And, secondly, that it be restated to say 1 MEMBER SHIBUYA: I need a little bit more 2 that these corridors are primarily for public transit 2 clarification with the words "for public transit." The 3 and remove "raised rail Maglev transit" and "where 3 basic reason why the -- the IRC at that time agreed with 4 appropriate." 4 this rail type of system was either steel wheels on 5 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. So do I have a second 5 steel rails or Maglev on rails which is -- both systems 6 to that? Stan, okay. 6 would be raised. The thing here is that you are looking 7 So we have an amendment by Jeanne, a second by 7 for the most efficient way of moving people and light 8 Stan. I will start with Tom and work our way around, 8 cargo from point to point. It is not like a bus or it 9 discussion on that amendment. 9 is not like a shuttle. It is a point to point quick 10 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. I would be voting 10 movement of people and light cargo. And these will 11 against this probably because the thought here was to 11 support and make sure that you have your workforce 12 get people into -- to move people in the long distances, 12 moving to their work sites faster, reliably and safer. 13 to get them the long distances between the communities 13 If you have ground transportation, such as highways, the 14 into regional transit. And to do that most efficiently 14 population growth will not allow for additional 15 is to do it with vehicles that don't use gasoline or 15 vehicles. You can have more buses, but they will be 16 diesel. And that was the original concept. And not to 16 congested just as much as your vehicles are because 17 divide the land by being on the ground. So I would be 17 they're gonna run on the same highways. So you have a 18 voting probably against this. 18 debate here. What do you want to do, put the people in 19 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. Stan, comments to the 19 buses and leave 'em sitting in buses or do you want to 20 motion? 20 have more lanes? If you use more lanes, then you're 21 MEMBER FRANCO: Stan Franco. 21 going to use up the precious land and limited land space 22 Are we talking all public transit, is that 22 that we have. 23 what we're talking about, or just a rail system? 23 The other part is that if you use buses and 24 CHAIR CANNON: It's multifold. 24 cars, you are stuck on the paradigm of using fossil 25 MEMBER MOIKEHA: The motion on the floor from 25 fuels. If you use another mass transit system, you will Page 347 Page 349 1 Jeanne is that she stated as all public transit without 1 use renewable energy that this GPAC has recommended that 2 specifying any specific mode of transportation. 2 we use renewable energies and we start looking at a 3 And for clarity purposes, I went back and 3 economic base which allows for this forward thinking and 4 reviewed the minutes from the January 10th, 2008, where 4 become more sustainable, self-sustaining, that we do not 5 the IRC presented and Warren gave that report and he was 5 become vulnerable to one harbor and one unloading area 6 proposing two separate motions. The first motion was to 6 where we have only fuel coming in after the tourist 7 adopt the concept without any specific mode of 7 ships leave. 8 transportation. And then he dropped even further 8 And that's the condition we have. This is the 9 discussion because that dealt with a specific mode. So 9 kind of scenario we have and that's why this is so 10 that is what the IRC came out with on January 10th. So, 10 important. Not only for us, but it's for our young 11 again, her motion is no specific mode of transportation, 11 generation to follow, our children, our children's 12 this is all public transit. 12 children. We need to keep the corridors and the 13 Is that correct, Jeanne? 13 corridors need to be identified. How they are 14 MEMBER SKOG: It's -- it's -- it should say 14 identified would be through a study, not by this group. 15 these corridors are for public transit. And I didn't 15 And that's all we're trying to do. The concept should 16 want to use the word all because that might say that 16 have a transit system easement. That's all I'm saying. 17 everything public transit has to be on these corridors. 17 Thank you. 18 So I just want to say it's for public transit. 18 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Hans, to the motion 19 MEMBER MOIKEHA: For public transit, correct. 19 amendment. 20 Stan. 20 MEMBER MICHEL: Yes. I believe Warren said it 21 Wallette, none. 21 all. And I hope the Planning Director will keep a 22 Carl. 22 record on that so he can recommend 'em to whoever wants 23 Jeanne. 23 to hear the story. 24 Warren. 24 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. Joe. 25 Warren Shibuya. 25 MEMBER BERTRAM: I hesitate because I do want 88 (Pages 346 to 349) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 350 Page 352 1 to go home, but just two things to the motion. 1 the motion is I -- I'm going to support Jeanne's motion. 2 Basically, you know, however we want to word this. This 2 I don't think we're taking anything away from what has 3 discussion is going to go on for a long time. Honolulu 3 been done as far as suggested conceptual routes here. 4 has been through 30 years of this. This has been just 4 And so I'm going to support her motion. We're going to 5 as intense in the last couple of years. And still back 5 give Dick an opportunity to speak, everyone has had one 6 and forth, you know, but I agree. This is something 6 opportunity, and then we'll call for the question. 7 that's necessary. Just the other part that we are a 7 MEMBER SKOG: I didn't speak to my own motion. 8 General Plan Advisory Committee, it's right in our 8 I made the motion, but didn't speak to it. 9 title. So to say that we have to put in various maps or 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah. I don't want to 10 documents, I don't think it's necessary. It's right 10 limit this just to rail transit. And if you notice, 11 from the get-go we're advising. 11 they always tell us read the small print right under 12 MEMBER MOIKEHA: John. 12 that where it says pedestrian walkways and trails, 13 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: I agree with what Warren 13 bicycles, equestrian community, et cetera, et cetera. 14 said. I think we can adopt the maps as advisory and 14 So it says primarily for raised rail type of transit, 15 subject to a study which Warren recommended and further 15 but then it has a whole list of other things that are 16 public input. I mean, it has to be broad enough where 16 allowed there. I would like to leave it open. I would 17 we can all support this. I think we agree this is 17 like to see that these areas include, instead of 18 important, we don't have to nail it down. That's gonna 18 transportation corridors, within which public transit 19 be done through a future study and through future 19 will be allowed. But I don't want us to define what 20 community input. 20 those technologies will be over the years to come. So I 21 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Frank. 21 vote against this motion. I will vote for the motion 22 MEMBER SYLVA: No. 22 because I want to keep it free from restrictions. 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chubby. 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Jeanne, you may speak to your 24 Hinano. 24 motion. 25 MEMBER RODRIGUES: My mind has been straining 25 MEMBER SKOG: I just want to make it clear Page 351 Page 353 1 for a few hours now, but, thanks to Warren, he brought 1 that I am proposing that we pass -- that we approve 2 me back into focus. And I agree with Warren. 2 these corridors as advisory so that we note that it is 3 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Lucienne. 3 advisory. And the change I made was that it's for 4 MEMBER deNAIE: I served on the IRC with 4 public transit. I did not remove pedestrian walkways, 5 Warren and Chubby and Joe and Tom. And I agree we need 5 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I want to also 6 real corridors that are about moving large amounts of 6 make it clear that that means the full range of public 7 people and avoiding using more fossil fuel. In terms of 7 transit solutions would be considered. And also make it 8 the amendment that Jeanne is suggesting, I totally 8 clear that, actually, buses do not have to be on fossil 9 support having the words, you know, this is an advisory 9 fuel. There's a lot that's being done in terms of 10 document that will be further refined, but I would like 10 electric cars and buses. In fact, there's some in 11 to see that it be further refined by future studies. 11 operation in Oahu already. 12 However, I wasn't one that thought we should only say 12 So I am proposing supporting these corridors, 13 that raised rail Maglev trains were the only concept 13 but as advisory and noting that they're for public 14 that we would support. I think it may be -- it may end 14 transit along with these other things below it. 15 up being the best one, but I would want a study to 15 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Is that public mass transit 16 determine that. So I guess I will not be supporting the 16 or just public transit? 17 motion quite as it is because I think the -- the 17 MEMBER SKOG: I assumed public transit meant 18 language that says -- Chubby used for public transit is 18 mass transit. 19 vague because public transit is buses, too, and I think 19 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. So we've had a 20 buses should just go on roads. 20 discussion on that. 21 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Time is up. 21 All in favor of the motion, amended motion by 22 Dick. 22 Jeanne, raise your hand. So we have nine in favor. 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let him go first. 23 All those opposed, raise your hands. 24 CHAIR CANNON: Madam Chair? 24 All those who abstained? One. 25 MEMBER MOIKEHA: One second. My comment to 25 So we have 10 to 7. That fails. 89 (Pages 350 to 353) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 354 Page 356 1 Do we have another motion? 1 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Lucienne was the second. 2 Stan. 2 Okay. Let's talk about the motion to amend by 3 CHAIR CANNON: We have a motion on the floor. 3 Stan. 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: We do have a motion on the 4 Wallette, any comments? Okay. 5 floor. Is there any other amendment before we vote? 5 Just let me know. 6 MEMBER FRANCO: What is the motion, to accept 6 Carl. 7 this as is? 7 MEMBER LINDQUIST: Do I understand that we've 8 MEMBER MOIKEHA: That, I believe, is the 8 eliminated the word Maglev? 9 motion. 9 MEMBER MOIKEHA: No, we have not. Any 10 MEMBER FRANCO: Okay. 10 comments to the amended motion by Stan that this is 11 CHAIR CANNON: Madam Chair, could I make a 11 advisory? 12 point of information? 12 CHAIR CANNON: The mover would be amenable. 13 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Yes, Tom. 13 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Excuse me. Excuse me. Hang 14 CHAIR CANNON: It's just that the reason that 14 on. 15 this was not -- one reason that this was not for 15 Jeanne. 16 automobiles is -- 16 Warren Shibuya. 17 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Do you have a microphone, 17 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Yes. Thank you. 18 Tom? 18 If we can accept the idea of advisory concept, 19 CHAIR CANNON: Oh, I'm sorry. One reason this 19 we can remove the words Maglev, but it would be 20 was -- we were trying to keep automobiles or motor 20 including raised -- I mean, it should include some sort 21 vehicles out of this corridor was that bikes and horses 21 of raised type of rail transit here, and allow for 22 and pedestrians and equestrian trails, and all those 22 pedestrian walkways, trails, bicycle paths, equestrian 23 things, don't go along with roads. You know, you get -- 23 trails beneath these easements. So this wide easement 24 you get killed if you tried to ride a bike along our 24 could also include plant nurseries and also utility 25 roads. And that is what is happening now. So these are 25 passageways, where you can put all of your utilities in Page 355 Page 357 1 pathways that are more direct than roads, they're more 1 there. It would exclude, of course, as it says, motor 2 straight because they go across what is now open space, 2 vehicles. 3 so they can be direct. And they would be for all these 3 Thank you. 4 other things other than motor vehicles so that it could 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. Hans, to the amended 5 be done safely. 5 motion, Stan's amended motion. 6 MEMBER MOIKEHA: So, Tom, let me understand. 6 MEMBER MICHEL: I stay with Warren's. 7 Your main motion is to accept everything on the map as 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Joe. 8 reflected including the language that this is for raised 8 John. 9 rail, transit, and, where appropriate, the following 9 Is Lisa still here? 10 language, is that correct? 10 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Lisa had to go home. 11 CHAIR CANNON: Correct. 11 I just beg everybody to get the right 12 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. So that is the motion, 12 language. This is really very important for all of us 13 what is represented here on the map including that this 13 for the future. And I think that the key to it is that 14 is primarily for raised rail. And that was seconded 14 we should be open to any proposals. And that means it's 15 already by Hans. We'll have one more discussion on that 15 got to be subject to the study. I mean, when we -- if 16 main motion, and then we will call for the vote. 16 there's a study done, boy, there's gonna be some real -- 17 So, Stan, comment on the main motion. 17 I think some very clear choices about whether Maglev is 18 MEMBER FRANCO: I want to make an amendment to 18 best or whether it's best to put in two more lanes of 19 the motion. I want to note on this map, at the bottom 19 highways or whatever. So for me, the key is to be 20 of this map, saying this is an advisory map for action 20 subject and open to further study. 21 by the Maui Planning Commission and the Maui County 21 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Frank. 22 Council. 22 Chubby. 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Do I have a second to Stan's 23 Hinano. 24 amendment? 24 Lucienne. 25 MEMBER deNAIE: Second. 25 MEMBER deNAIE: I support this. I also would 90 (Pages 354 to 357) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 358 Page 360 1 like to see that first line amended. But I guess we 1 motor vehicles." The idea here is that it's 2 should just dispose of this mess -- this amendment, and 2 multi-using. These are easements, land easements, that 3 then I can propose another amendment. 3 we need to identify. And it is advisory. And it's 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. Do you have -- the 4 gonna be identified, hopefully, through a study and with 5 amendment on the floor is Stan's motion to make sure 5 public input, too. So, therefore, I cannot support this 6 that the map says advisory. It did not take off the 6 idea of striking all of these corridors, primarily 7 language, "These corridors are primarily for raised rail 7 raised rail, pedestrian walkways, trails, bicycle paths, 8 (Maglev) transit." The only motion that he made was 8 equestrian trails, community gardens, commercial plant 9 advisory. 9 nurseries, utility passageways. This is very important 10 Dick. 10 to me, too. 11 I have nothing to say. 11 Thank you. 12 Tom. 12 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Hans, any comments to the 13 CHAIR CANNON: I would be amenable to removing 13 motion? 14 the word "Maglev." 14 MEMBER MICHEL: I don't go along with Stan's 15 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: We haven't got that far. 15 motion. 16 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. So let's hear -- we 16 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Joe. 17 heard from Stan. So the motion is advisory. The maps 17 Raise your hand if you would like to speak. 18 reflect an advisory position. So all in favor of that 18 John. 19 motion, indicate by raising your hand. How many do we 19 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: I agree with Warren. 20 have? 20 And I think that taking out the Maglev is enough of a 21 MR. MICHAELSON: Seventeen. 21 clarification that we're open to alternatives that will 22 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Seventeen in favor. 22 be studied. And that's it. 23 How many opposed? None. 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Along here. Frank or Chubby. 24 Abstaining? None. 24 Chubby. 25 So with that passed, we're back to the main 25 MEMBER VICENS: Chubby Vicens. I just want to Page 359 Page 361 1 motion to accept this map with the word "advisory" on 1 make a comment. 2 it, along with the rest of the information on here, 2 A number of years back, I used to run the 3 "These corridors are primarily for raised rail (Maglev) 3 Matson operation here. And we used to bring automobiles 4 transit." "And where appropriate," the rest of it. 4 in. And I'm gonna speak to the safety aspect of a 5 Can I have a motion? 5 raised rail with, for instance, pedestrian walkways and 6 Stan. 6 trails or bike paths underneath. One of the problems we 7 MEMBER FRANCO: I make another motion. I 7 found after many years of study is that during the 8 would take out the language, "These corridors are 8 course of transporting automobiles across country, with 9 primarily for raised rail (Maglev) transit," all the way 9 rails, the minute particles that were airborne at 2,000 10 down to "corridors exclude motor vehicles," all that 10 degrees would hit the paint on an automobile, seal 11 language. And leave it open to like has been said, 11 itself up, and nobody would know about it until it got 12 studies or whatever comes up with whatever system we 12 to Hawaii, and maybe five, six months you see all these 13 implement. 13 little pop-ups. Okay. So what I'm addressing is the 14 MEMBER MOIKEHA: So I have a motion of 14 safety aspect of it. If you're gonna have people 15 amendment, seconded by Jeanne. Speak to this motion. 15 underneath, you need to be able to guide the kinds of 16 Stan, anything further on your motion? 16 facilities you're gonna be using above. 17 MEMBER FRANCO: No. 17 Thank you. 18 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Going around again. Just 18 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Hinano. 19 raise your hand if you want to speak to this amended 19 MEMBER RODRIGUES: My understanding for 20 motion. 20 choosing these corridors is because we had in mind a 21 Along the back, Warren Shibuya. 21 raised kind of system. If not, these corridors would 22 MEMBER SHIBUYA: I'm not going to support 22 probably follow the existing highways. So I will be 23 this, Stan, because it's not specific enough. I'm 23 voting against the amendment. 24 willing to take off Maglev transit, but all the other 24 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Lucienne. 25 words must be included, including "corridors exclude 25 MEMBER deNAIE: I can't support this 91 (Pages 358 to 361) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 362 Page 364 1 amendment, either. I'm with Warren. But I would like 1 discussion, you know, do we see these -- do we see these 2 to suggest some other language. I don't know if this is 2 corridors as something that we put future things with 3 the appropriate time to see if Stan -- okay. 3 wheels on or do we see them as something that's very, 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Next round. 4 very separate. There may be a technology that we are 5 MEMBER deNAIE: Wait until the next round. 5 not even aware of today by the time that these are 6 Okay. 6 built. And I feel like, you know, our buses are going 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Dick. 7 on roads and we'll probably continue to go on roads, and 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I support the amendment. 8 we have many plans for roads and there's going to be 9 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I have nothing to say. 9 economic stimulus plan to build roads. And I think the 10 And, Tom, we're back to you. 10 roads and the buses are gonna be taken care of. But 11 CHAIR CANNON: I can't support the 11 this other idea, something for the rest of us to use, I 12 amendment -- 12 think is an important concept. And that's why we keep, 13 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Can you use the microphone? 13 I guess, stumbling over it. And so I think my motion 14 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, I am. I can't support the 14 sort of addresses that, and so pass or fail. 15 amendment for the reasons Warren and John and Lucienne 15 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Hinano. 16 mentioned. I would be amenable to removing the word 16 Chubby. 17 "Maglev." 17 Frank. 18 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Stan, we're back to you with 18 John. 19 the amended motion. All those in favor of the amended 19 Joe. Keep going? 20 motion to wipe out all of the language below there on 20 Hans. 21 the map, on the map that we're looking at, that includes 21 Warren Shibuya. 22 "These corridors are primarily for raised rail (Maglev) 22 MEMBER SHIBUYA: I'm not too sure about the 23 transit, and where appropriate," the rest of the 23 definition of non-vehicle, but I think I understand the 24 language. All those in favor, indicate by raising your 24 concept, the basic concept of transportation that's a 25 hand. We have five. 25 mass transit type of system that we move a lot of people Page 363 Page 365 1 Opposed? Eleven opposed. 1 and a lot of cargo quickly and efficiently. And that's 2 Abstaining? Are you abstaining? 2 the intent. And that the intent is also to obtain the 3 MEMBER SHIBUYA: No, no. I want to -- 3 system through study and from public input. And that 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: There's no abstentions. 4 this corridor that we portray here is merely advisory. 5 We're down to 16 people? One second. 5 Thank you. 6 Sixteen. 6 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Warren. 7 Okay. We're back to the main motion. 7 Jeanne. 8 Lucienne. 8 MEMBER SKOG: I need to get a point of 9 MEMBER deNAIE: Thank you, Madam Chair. 9 information from the Department again. Without -- 10 I would like to propose that we amend the 10 Lucienne, can you repeat your motion? 11 language that is on this map, then move on. Amend it to 11 MEMBER deNAIE: No. Unfortunately, I don't 12 read -- the first line, instead of saying "these 12 have that many brain cells. But I hear -- I hear what 13 corridors are primarily for raised rail (Maglev) 13 Warren says. And, for instance, if it's clearer to say 14 transit," so forth and so on, we substitute the phrase 14 non-motor vehicle -- I would just like something that is 15 "These corridors are intended for non-motor vehicle 15 about these other uses as well as alternative forms of 16 transportation systems that will be determined by future 16 transportation that couldn't possibly go on our roads, 17 studies. And will include, where appropriate," and then 17 you know. I want to leave the roads for the roads. 18 just leave all the rest below. And you can get rid of 18 MEMBER SKOG: Your motion said "these 19 "corridors exclude motor vehicles." 19 corridors are intended for." 20 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. So I have an amended 20 MEMBER deNAIE: Yes, "are intended for." And 21 motion by Lucienne. 21 I said non-vehicle, but probably it should be non-motor 22 Do I have a second? Joe was the second. 22 vehicle. 23 Let's discuss it. 23 MEMBER SKOG: So, Department, without the 24 Lucienne, discussion on your motion. 24 language in here that says that this is advisory -- 25 MEMBER deNAIE: Well, this is the same old 25 MEMBER deNAIE: No, no, no, no. We passed 92 (Pages 362 to 365) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 366 Page 368 1 advisory. 1 down, is, "These corridors are" -- taking out the word 2 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Point of order. 2 "primarily," substituting it with "intended for 3 MEMBER SKOG: We did pass it. 3 non-motor vehicle." 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Yes, advisory terminology was 4 MEMBER deNAIE: Madam Chair? 5 passed. That's the only thing we could agree on. 5 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Yes. Would you like to 6 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. 6 correct that? 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Her motion was these 7 MEMBER deNAIE: I am happy to accept the 8 corridors are intended for non-motor vehicle -- I wrote 8 language that Warren is so graciously offering now that 9 it down -- that will be determined by future studies, 9 I'm braindead. 10 and where appropriate, and the rest of the language. 10 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. Warren, please, recite 11 That was her amended motion. 11 it again so I can write it down. 12 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. Thank you very much. So, 12 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Okay. "These corridors are 13 Department, what does that mean to you? 13 intended" -- I took out the word "primarily." "These 14 MR. SUMMERS: I think it would suggest that 14 corridors are intended for non-motor vehicle transport 15 it's a conceptual map that would start the conversation 15 systems to be determined by future study." 16 for future studies. 16 MEMBER MOIKEHA: So we've added "transport 17 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. Carl, to the motion? 17 systems that will be determined by future studies." 18 Anybody on this side? 18 Everybody clear on the amendment? Okay. Let's vote. 19 Tom. 19 MEMBER SKOG: Point of information, Chair. I 20 CHAIR CANNON: Just the question, was it motor 20 just want to make sure. So you took out the last line 21 vehicle now? 21 that is in red because it was captured above? 22 MEMBER deNAIE: Yeah. 22 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Let me read again what the 23 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. Thank you. 23 amendment is. We already dealt with the advisory -- 24 MEMBER MOIKEHA: It was always motor -- it was 24 MEMBER SKOG: Right. 25 always intended non-motor vehicle. That's what she 25 MEMBER MOIKEHA: So we're done with that. Page 367 Page 369 1 originally stated. 1 That's gonna be on here no matter what we do now. 2 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you. 2 The next question is her amendment states, 3 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Taking out the word 3 "These corridors are intended for non-motor vehicle 4 "primarily." 4 transport systems that will be determined by future 5 CHAIR CANNON: Thank you. 5 studies, and where appropriate," with the rest of the 6 MEMBER MOIKEHA: All in favor of the motion -- 6 language. Is that correct? 7 oh, Dick. 7 MEMBER SHIBUYA: Okay. 8 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I am so sorry. Just so you 8 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Lucienne. 9 know, this is "The Maui News" trying to figure out 9 MEMBER deNAIE: I also intended that last 10 whether we were finished or not. 10 sentence to be deleted because it's already covered 11 MEMBER MOIKEHA: That's the point. 11 above, as Jeanne -- 12 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: That's what I told them. 12 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Which sentence? 13 Are we voting? Please explain it to me. 13 MEMBER deNAIE: That says "corridors exclude 14 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. We are voting on an 14 motor vehicles." 15 amended motion by Lucienne, seconded by Joe. The 15 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. Amended to exclude 16 amended motion states, "These corridors are intended for 16 "corridors exclude motor vehicles." That is the amended 17 non-motor vehicle that will be determined by future 17 motion. All in favor, indicate by raising your hands. 18 studies, and where appropriate," the rest of the 18 We have 15 for. 19 language reflected on here. 19 All those opposed? One opposed. 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Okay. Thank you. 20 No abstentions since we're down to 16. 21 MEMBER SHIBUYA: I need to correct that one. 21 Are we done with this matter? 22 It says, "These corridors are primarily intended for 22 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: We are done with this 23 non-motor vehicle transport systems to be determined by 23 matter. 24 future study." 24 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chair, I will relinquish back 25 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Her motion, as I wrote it 25 to you. 93 (Pages 366 to 369) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 370 Page 372 1 MEMBER LINDQUIST: Chair? 1 be clear. We've, obviously, had many votes with a split 2 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 2 decision. So I'm trying to get two people from each of 3 MEMBER LINDQUIST: I'm not feeling well. I'm 3 those sides who have really been diametrically opposed, 4 putting pressure on the rest of you that are staying. 4 and three people sort of who have been oftentimes in the 5 But I've got a long drive ahead of me and I've got to 5 middle. And I'm going to put myself and Lucienne, 6 leave. 6 having been involved in four or five IRCs, as people who 7 MEMBER deNAIE: Thank you, Carl. 7 have been on one side, Susan and Jeanne on the other 8 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: Mahalo for the sushi. 8 side, and then three people who have gone back and forth 9 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Chair? 9 on various issues, that's Wallette, Tom and Trevor. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Okay, Dick. 10 I've asked Trevor, he is not here tonight, right now. 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah, I would like to make 11 So that would be seven people. We could eliminate any 12 a motion. Obviously, it's late. We're going to lose 12 of those, we could change the mode, but I think that 13 quorum. I'm going to make a suggestion. Obviously, 13 would be very helpful to the staff, to have somebody 14 we're not going to get through all of the IRC reports. 14 that they can bounce the language off of. It would be 15 We're not going to be able to vote on Transportation, 15 helpful to the GPAC to be able to get our wording, our 16 Harbors and Energy, and all the other ones that are out 16 ideas in there. 17 there. I'm going to make a suggestion. I would have 17 I would urge that the seven people involved 18 made it no matter how far we had gone today because I 18 not try to make any changes in any recommendations that 19 know we'll still have things to do after today's 19 have been made, but, rather, to facilitate the process 20 deadline date for our group. The suggestion I'm going 20 of getting it correctly transmitted to the Planning 21 to make is that we provide the staff with some of our 21 Commission and the Council. 22 expertise to help them draft up and make sure that the 22 That's my recommendation. I would like to 23 language that we have all adopted over the last six, 23 make that as a motion. 24 eight, nine months now, in this particular plan, is put 24 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? Seconded by 25 forth to the Planning Commission as accurately as 25 Warren Shibuya. Page 371 Page 373 1 possible and as well as possible. So I'm going to 1 Further discussion? 2 suggest -- and I hope nobody takes offense. I'm going 2 Susan. 3 to suggest that there about seven of us who have worked 3 MEMBER MOIKEHA: So I can make clear, so these 4 with many of the IRCs, we've been very much involved, 4 people work two at a time with staff so they are not 5 work with the staff, that they will be able to send us 5 forming some kind of body or quorum? 6 drafts as they go through the various things, we'll be 6 CHAIR CANNON: Dick. 7 able to check it over, make sure that is what we said, 7 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Yeah, right. I don't think 8 and be able to send it back to them and say, no, this is 8 at any time would the seven get together per se. But, 9 correct, or this is a better version, or this is the -- 9 rather, they would be sent copies, drafts of the various 10 because I saw -- 10 documents as they come up, maps as well as tables as 11 I'm going to give one example here. We got at 11 well as text, and, at home, sit down and write down what 12 our last meeting two copies -- two things in our packet, 12 they think of the correct wording to be able to send it 13 one was something called introduction and the another 13 back. If the staff needs to, says, gee, I have two 14 was GPAC recommendations. In there, there were two 14 different versions, they could call, for example, Susan 15 completely separate versions of our major goals and 15 and myself to come in and meet with them and try to iron 16 mission and vision and all that kind of stuff. Two 16 it out. The whole idea is to try to get as accurately 17 complete versions. I want to make sure that we get the 17 as we can to the Planning Commission. It would not be a 18 right one in there. So I want to be able to continue 18 body that would be making any types of decisions 19 working with them. 19 overall. 20 So I'm going to suggest -- I'm going to hope 20 CHAIR CANNON: Dick, would each of these 21 the group accepts these names. What I've tried to do is 21 Members be sent the comments that other Members had, 22 get as well balanced a group as I could from our group. 22 also? 23 And I hope nobody takes offense. Also, I'm trying to 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Could be. 24 include some English majors in there as well. And I 24 CHAIR CANNON: John, do you have a comment? 25 think I'm going to say it very clearly because I want to 25 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 94 (Pages 370 to 373) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 374 Page 376 1 Staff is a little bit concerned that we're 1 John and staff. I've gone through some of the documents 2 getting -- we're moving towards the establishment of an 2 and found a few things that I think may have been 3 IRC type of vehicle. And that raises a number of legal 3 inadvertently edited out. And would it be appropriate 4 issues. Staff would be much more comfortable just 4 for us as individual Members to bring those to the 5 working with a couple of members from the individual 5 attention of the Planning Department, you know, Dave 6 IRCs in terms of as we start to package the goals, 6 Michaelson, John Summers, and so forth? Just -- just to 7 policies, objectives and actions with the background 7 -- I found versions of things where I think things were 8 information, just having one or two members review that 8 inadvertently edited out. I would just like to be able 9 and redline it. But to go beyond that, I think we would 9 to submit those concerns to staff to sort out. So I 10 be running into potential Sunshine Law problems and we 10 want to know if that's appropriate. 11 have some concerns. 11 MR. MICHAELSON: I mean, I can -- I don't have 12 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chair? 12 a mike. Can you hear me? I don't have a problem with 13 CHAIR CANNON: Susan. 13 that as long as you realize the first thing we'll do is 14 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I am, too. And I wouldn't 14 go back and look at some minutes and make sure we can 15 want to give myself sole discretion, nor anybody else. 15 connect the dots. But, I mean, this is such a massive 16 I think it's inappropriate. They have the minutes. If 16 undertaking. Those things are gonna happen. And we'll 17 they have a concern about what is going on, they should 17 fill in the pukas the best we can. 18 be looking at the minutes. I think we've been real 18 CHAIR CANNON: Susan, what was that document 19 clear about what we've said. If it needs further 19 you held up? 20 clarification, and they need to, then call someone in 20 MEMBER MOIKEHA: This we got Thursday. And, 21 the IRC. They have who those people were. I'm just 21 John, correct me if I'm wrong, these are all the things 22 concerned about giving us that opportunity to go back 22 we did go through. We gave our revisions, we have the 23 and try and reword things or -- I mean, they can clean 23 IRC recommendations, and then the GPAC final 24 up the editing stuff. All that stuff has to be done. 24 recommendation. That was after we thoroughly went 25 I am more concerned that we didn't get through 25 through it and made our changes. The only thing that we Page 375 Page 377 1 everything. And I'm not gonna give a blanket vote to 1 did not finish as part of the Harbors was Warren 2 that. We didn't finish Warren's Harbor thing, we didn't 2 Shibuya's comments. And that should be not included in 3 get to the CIP, we didn't get to the Implementation 3 this. 4 thing, either. I'm not going to support a blanket 4 But my understanding is we did complete this, 5 approval for those things. They weren't for discussion, 5 we had an IRC recommendation and we had a GPAC 6 then they should go on the list of we just didn't get to 6 recommendation. I think I feel comfortable adopting 7 it. 7 this. And they're gonna need some direction with that. 8 So you folks, Planning Commission, pick it up 8 So I would like to put a motion that we adopt this with 9 from there. 9 edit cleanup and all of that, make sure things are 10 I would approve all this draft that we did go 10 reading sensibly, coherently, so people can understand 11 over with the things we actually went and made 11 it. 12 corrections on and they gave it back to us in the draft 12 CHAIR CANNON: Can I see the front of what 13 form, and say we support that, along with the maps. But 13 you're holding? 14 the rest of that stuff, I -- I'm not going to support 14 MEMBER SKOG: There's a motion on the floor. 15 that we give a blanket vote to it. I'm gonna say we 15 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 16 tried our best, this is how far we got, please take it 16 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Wait. We have Dick's motion. 17 forward to the next reviewing body. 17 We have to dispose of that first. 18 So those are my comments. 18 CHAIR CANNON: Can you repeat your motion, 19 CHAIR CANNON: Other comments? 19 Dick? 20 MEMBER MICHEL: I'm going home. I like to 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: My motion is very simple. 21 tell everybody aloha, thank you very much. And I hope I 21 That seven people be selected, I'm not asking names to 22 see you sometime around. 22 be changed, but it's a group of people be selected, who 23 CHAIR CANNON: Thanks, Hans. 23 will really work with the Department to make sure it 24 John. 24 represents what we say. 25 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: I have a question for 25 I've seen so much text in here that I think is 95 (Pages 374 to 377) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 378 Page 380 1 not correct, that is misinterpreted or incorrect, that 1 Implementation, CIP. We never had the opportunity to 2 -- and I think there's some things in the IRCs that were 2 look at that. And I don't think that should be the 3 not recorded here, Implementation chapter. We worked 3 response of seven individuals, including myself as one 4 three years. Some of the most important things we need 4 of these. I think we've looked at this, we can safely 5 to have done is make sure that all of this work that 5 adopt it with the cleanup and edit it. If there's 6 we've done gets implemented. And right now, I see no 6 questions, go back to the IRC member and ask to clarify 7 mechanism. Otherwise, it's gonna be another document 7 that. The rest of the stuff is gonna have to go on a 8 that will sit on the shelf and perhaps be misapplied, 8 list that we just didn't finish, but this is what the 9 whatever. We have to have the tools in there to 9 IRC recommended. And then let the Planning Commission 10 implement it. And that's in the Implementation chapter. 10 take control of it. 11 We've done nothing about -- there's not been a 11 Release your control. We're done. 12 dollar sign mentioned anywhere. 12 Call for the question. Call for the question. 13 The chapter on Infrastructure, which goes 13 CHAIR CANNON: Anything more on this? 14 along with Implementation, has extensive material. 14 MEMBER SKOG: Point of information. 15 I would like to have some people working with 15 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 16 the Department so that when it goes to the Planning 16 MEMBER SKOG: For the Planning Department. So 17 Commission, we'll get the plan that we've all worked on 17 how are you going to characterize what was not done? 18 implemented and that there be some kind of a cost figure 18 Because Natural Hazards was one of them, et cetera, et 19 or, at least, when we don't have cost figures, be able 19 cetera. So how are you going to characterize what was 20 to point out to the Planning Commission what we are not 20 developed and not reviewed? 21 able to do and what we are not able to get to. 21 CHAIR CANNON: John. 22 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 22 MR. SUMMERS: The sections like Natural 23 MEMBER deNAIE: Point of information, Chair. 23 Hazards, Introduction to Island History, we would 24 It's my understanding that we are in some sense not 24 certainly indicate the Department developed that draft, 25 disbanded until, you know, in principle, until this 25 that we did not have an opportunity to get formal GPAC Page 379 Page 381 1 whole thing goes through the County Council. Can we 1 input on that. Those sections that the IRCs looked at 2 form an IRC that has -- like an oversight IRC that can 2 that we haven't yet gotten to like long-range 3 just meet periodically that can -- you know, we can all 3 implementation and monitoring and evaluation, we would 4 agree that someone -- some group of people are on it 4 indicate that we had an IRC report on those items, but 5 that can address things? Is that -- it's a little 5 the full GPAC did not have an opportunity to provide 6 different than Dick's motion, but I'm just asking for 6 comments. 7 information from staff. 7 MEMBER MOIKEHA: That's fair. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Staff, John. 8 CHAIR CANNON: Anything more on the motion? 9 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 9 Lesley? 10 I think we would have to clarify that with our 10 MEMBER BRUCE: I'm not sure this is the 11 attorneys. I do know that during the deliberations on 11 appropriate time, but -- Lesley Bruce from Hana -- I'm 12 Bill 84, they left a committee intact until Council 12 willing to advise us to move the Airports and Harbors, 13 adoption, which suggests an opportunity for some 13 Warren Shibuya papers on to the Planning Commission. 14 response. You know, before I would answer your specific 14 CHAIR CANNON: Okay. We're not there yet. 15 question, I would like to talk to James Giroux about 15 We're still on Dick's motion. 16 that. 16 All those in favor of Dick's motion, which is 17 Again, staff appreciates what -- would 17 to -- Dick, you want to just go over that one more time 18 appreciate a second set of eyes from individual Members 18 so everybody gets it? 19 of the IRCs. And, again, we do have concerns with the 19 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I'll get it right. To ask 20 idea of setting up a standing IRC, particularly with the 20 that seven people work with the Department over the next 21 way the agenda is noticed and due to Sunshine Law 21 month to -- excuse me -- to make sure that the 22 implication and lack of attorney input on this issue. 22 recommendations that we've all worked on are properly 23 CHAIR CANNON: Susan. 23 transmitted to the Department, and that some of the 24 MEMBER MOIKEHA: This is exactly why I can't 24 material which was only looked at by the IRC be also 25 support Dick's motion, because he is talking about 25 transmitted on to the Planning Commission, probably 96 (Pages 378 to 381) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 382 Page 384 1 along with all the maps and checking over the maps. 1 CHAIR CANNON: No. 2 Because I saw just too many errors coming forth. And I 2 MEMBER MOIKEHA: -- those things we never got 3 think somebody has to check it over from our side. 3 to? 4 CHAIR CANNON: All those in favor of the 4 CHAIR CANNON: Everything in here except 5 motion, please raise your hands. Four in favor. 5 Harbors and Airports, correct? 6 All opposed? Nine opposed. 6 All in favor, please raise your hand. 7 Abstentions? One abstention. 7 Thirteen in favor. 8 MEMBER PELLEGRINO: Two. 8 Opposed? One opposed. 9 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chair, I have a motion. 9 Any abstentions? None -- oh, one. One 10 CHAIR CANNON: Yes, Susan. 10 abstention. 11 MEMBER MOIKEHA: First of all, take it in two 11 So the motion carries. 12 motions. The first thing is, this Maui Island Plan GPAC 12 MEMBER MOIKEHA: My second motion, Chair. 13 draft policy recommendations dated February 2009, which 13 CHAIR CANNON: Yes. 14 we received at our last meeting. And briefly to say 14 MEMBER MOIKEHA: All the things that we did 15 it's all the elements that we had a chance to go back 15 not get to after it came out of the recommendation by 16 and comment on after it came back from the IRCs, that it 16 the IRCs, that we acknowledge we just didn't finish 17 be adopted except for the Harbors section that we didn't 17 those sections, and that when those things go to the 18 get with Warren. So that's the first motion. 18 Planning Commission, that they be noted that this was 19 CHAIR CANNON: Is there a second? 19 the IRCs recommendation only. And if you would like to 20 MEMBER VICENS: Second. 20 include those names of the IRCs, I'm okay with that, 21 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Chubby. 21 too. But we just did not have the time to get to it. 22 Further discussion? 22 CHAIR CANNON: It's only 8:00. 23 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Okay. Chair, let me clarify 23 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: I'll second that. 24 that, too. And, of course, they will be edited and 24 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Dick. 25 cleaned up so that they are accurate. And they can 25 Further discussion? Page 383 Page 385 1 refer to the minutes and they can call individuals 1 Jeanne. 2 within the IRC. So they have oversight. 2 MEMBER SKOG: What about those items that even 3 CHAIR CANNON: Lucienne. 3 the IRCs didn't see? 4 MEMBER deNAIE: Just point of clarification. 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: I'm going to say broaden it 5 I thought there was an Airports and Harbors section. Am 5 to say the things that the IRCs did not see. Okay? So 6 I correct or incorrect about that? And I don't think we 6 is that clear enough? 7 reviewed either of them. 7 MEMBER SKOG: Well, there were items that the 8 CHAIR CANNON: It's Harbors and Airports. 8 IRC did see that the general body did not. So there's 9 MEMBER deNAIE: Harbors and Airports. Okay. 9 that one. And then there are items that none of us saw. 10 If you would be willing, Susan, just to say Harbors and 10 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Right. It includes all of 11 Airports -- 11 that. 12 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Yes, Harbors and Airports 12 MEMBER SKOG: Okay. 13 excluded from my motion. 13 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Yes. 14 MEMBER deNAIE: Sure. 14 CHAIR CANNON: Including all that, noting 15 CHAIR CANNON: Further discussion? All in 15 which is which, right? 16 favor. 16 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Are you referring to things 17 MEMBER SKOG: Also, Natural Hazards. 17 like the History and Introduction? 18 MR. MICHAELSON: And Natural Hazards. 18 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Yes. 19 MEMBER SHIBUYA: There's also the 19 CHAIR CANNON: Further discussion? 20 Telecommunications section. 20 (Silence.) 21 MEMBER MOIKEHA: But that's not in the report, 21 CHAIR CANNON: All in favor of the motion, 22 is that correct, Department? It's not in here? 22 raise your hand. Fifteen in favor. 23 MR. MICHAELSON: It's not. 23 All opposed? 24 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Do you want me to really read 24 MEMBER VICENS: We only have 15 people. 25 all of this -- 25 CHAIR CANNON: The motion carries. 97 (Pages 382 to 385) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 386 Page 388 1 MEMBER BLUMER-BUELL: How do we get 15 when 1 a presentation to the Council or to the Planning 2 there's 13 here? 2 Commission of what was intended by various things. It 3 MR. MICHAELSON: There's 15 with those two. 3 gives a much more formal way for us to make 4 MEMBER MOIKEHA: And I wanted to make clear 4 presentations. And they can provide us -- 5 that we also adopted the maps, all of the maps. That's 5 CHAIR CANNON: Susan. 6 already clear, we don't need additional motion on that? 6 MEMBER SKOG: Planning Department, so we 7 Okay. 7 definitely can go as ourselves? So I'm still not clear 8 CHAIR CANNON: We do that individually. 8 that that, you know, what -- what we do or don't do as 9 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Just to be sure -- I'm done. 9 former GPAC Members in terms of testifying. 10 CHAIR CANNON: Anyone else? 10 CHAIR CANNON: John. 11 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Planning Department's 11 MR. SUMMERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 12 report? 12 It's important that, in terms of testifying, 13 CHAIR CANNON: Planning Director's report? 13 that individuals, you know, are certainly free to 14 MR. SUMMERS: Just a reminder that Doug did 14 testify, exercise some diligence as it relates to the 15 suggest at the previous meeting that there might be a 15 testimony and anything that might diverge from what has 16 potluck at his place. 16 normally been approved by the Committee. My 17 MEMBER deNAIE: Oh, there is? 17 recollection on the reason why the Council, as Dick 18 MR. SUMMERS: There is. 18 noted, retained the Committee was also in response to 19 MEMBER deNAIE: Oh, shoot. 19 what happened on Molokai where there were significant 20 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Did somebody send out an 20 changes at the Council level of the plan, and Molokai 21 email on that, with time and place? And is that just 21 didn't have a response, an opportunity to respond to 22 the membership or to include spouses and partners, 22 that. So there is a vehicle, I think, if we kind of 23 whatever -- whatever -- and what we should bring, what 23 play it by ear in terms of how that would work. 24 time, all that kind of stuff? 24 MEMBER MOIKEHA: Chair, just real quickly. If 25 MR. SUMMERS: Absolutely. 25 it's true that some body will be formed of a few Page 387 Page 389 1 CHAIR CANNON: Can you do that? 1 Members, and they are representing the GPAC Members 2 MR. SUMMERS: Yes. 2 here, that they be reading from minutes to clarify. 3 MEMBER FRANCO: Move for adjournment. 3 MR. MICHAELSON: You're pau. You lost quorum. 4 CHAIR CANNON: Move to adjourn. Is there a 4 CHAIR CANNON: We're adjourned. 5 second? 5 (Meeting adjourned at 7:51 p.m.) 6 MEMBER VICENS: Second. 6 7 CHAIR CANNON: Seconded by Chubby, moved by 7 8 Stan. 8 9 Further discussion on that? 9 10 Jeanne. 10 11 MEMBER SKOG: Yeah. I just wanted 11 12 clarification going forward because there was mixed 12 13 signals on what GPAC Members are able to do after today. 13 14 So we can go before Planning Commission or whatever, and 14 15 certainly as our own, but we should not go as GPAC 15 16 Members? 16 17 VICE-CHAIR MAYER: Let, me tell you why -- 17 18 break in two sentences why that law was put in. Our 18 19 Community Plan, years ago, ended and there was no 19 20 representation to the Planning Commission or Council. 20 21 The Council wanted to know from the GPAC Members, so 21 22 Charmaine -- I asked her and she put into the law that 22 23 provision. That will allow Jonathan Starr, let's say, 23 24 if he is chair, or Danny Mateo, Chair of the thing, to 24 25 ask Members to represent the panel, for example, to make 25 98 (Pages 386 to 389) IWADO COURT REPORTERS 808 244-9300 MAUI GPAC, REGULAR MEETING

Page 390 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 4 5 6 7 I, TONYA MCDADE, a Court Reporter of the State 8 of Hawaii, do hereby certify that the proceedings 9 contained herein were taken by me in machine shorthand 10 and thereafter was reduced to print by means of 11 computer-aided transcription; that the foregoing 12 represents, to the best of my ability, a true and 13 accurate transcript of the proceedings had in the 14 foregoing matter. 15 I further certify that I am not an attorney 16 for any of the parties hereto, nor in any way concerned 17 with the cause. 18 19 DATED this 13th day of April, 2009. 20 21 22 ______Tonya McDade, RPR, CRR, CBC 23 Certified Shorthand Reporter #447 Registered Professional Reporter 24 Certified Realtime Reporter Certified Broadcast Captioner 25

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