Monday Volume 496 20 July 2009 No. 114

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Monday 20 July 2009

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2009 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; Tel: 0044 (0) 208876344; e-mail: [email protected] 561 20 JULY 2009 562

Mr. Simon: We are ensuring with radio switchover House of Commons that community organisations and small community radio stations, which might currently be able to broadcast Monday 20 July 2009 for only two weeks a year, will inherit the FM spectrum currently taken up by big regional and national FM broadcasters. Precisely such small, commercial, local The House met at half-past Two o’clock community organisations will be able to flourish in the digital future in a way that they are technologically constrained from doing now. PRAYERS Adam Price (Carmarthen, East and Dinefwr) (PC): The Minister is a Welsh speaker, so is he aware of the [MR.SPEAKER in the Chair] fears for the future of Radio Cymru, the BBC’s Welsh language national service? It is not currently available on digital and will not be available in large swathes of Oral Answers to Questions western Wales for reasons of topography. Mr. Simon: I have, with personal regret, to tell the hon. Gentleman that I am not really a Welsh speaker. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT [HON.MEMBERS: “Ah!”] Dwi’n dysgu, ’de? I should have been a Welsh speaker. We are alive to the particular problems of Wales. The Secretary of State was asked— There are serious problems with coverage, not just with Digital Radio Switchover respect to Radio Cymru but with digital coverage throughout Wales. We have made it clear that the nations and regions that are furthest behind in digital coverage 1. Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): What will be the first priority for the most serious intervention, his most recent assessment is of progress on digital to ensure that they are not left behind when we move to radio switchover; and if he will make a statement. digital. We have made it clear also that we will not move [287437] to digital unless 90 per cent. coverage at the very least is achieved. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr. Siôn Simon): The “Digital Britain” Mr. Jeremy Hunt (South-West Surrey) (Con): I start White Paper set out the Government’s vision for the by welcoming you to your post, Mr. Speaker—an elevation delivery of the digital radio upgrade by the end of 2015. that was only marginally more likely than man walking We have committed to a review of the progress towards on the moon, which happened 40 years ago today. I that timetable in spring 2010, and we have also asked offer you my congratulations. I am sure that you will Ofcom to review and publish progress against the upgrade want to join me in offering the congratulations of the criteria at least once a year, starting next year. whole House to the England cricket team, which won an historic victory today—their first victory over the Sir Nicholas Winterton: Is the Minister not aware Australians at Lord’s for 75 years. We would also like to that “Digital Britain” has in fact failed to address the congratulate the Minister on taking up his post in the inadequacies of digital radio broadcasting coverage? DCMS team. I am sure that he will agree with that comment. The Government’s own figures state that there are Representations made to me so far suggest that the idea 65 million analogue radios in circulation, and they hope of a switchover is currently very unpopular. Instead of that the cost of digital radios will fall to £20 a set. That rushing ahead with the switchover, will he take positive means that the cost of upgrading the nation’s analogue action to allow people to see some tangible benefits? radio stock will surpass £1 billion. Who will pay that £1 billion? Will it be the Government, or will it be Mr. Simon: I am disappointed that the hon. Gentleman consumers? thinks that we are rushing ahead. We have said that we will move Britain to digital by 2015. That gives consumers Mr. Simon: Mr. Speaker, I should apologise for having and the industry six years to make the upgrade, which forgotten to congratulate you; I thought that we were we are doing because we are committed to radio, we taking your position for granted by now, but it is my believe in radio and we love radio, and radio will not first time speaking under your chairmanship. I offer my have a future unless it goes digital. We are not switching very sincere congratulations. I never thought that your off FM, and we are putting new services on the FM elevation was unlikely. spectrum that is vacated by the services which move to digital audio broadcasting, because we want to see Mr. Edward Vaizey (Wantage) (Con): What about radio prosper and grow in the digital age. cricket?

Mr. Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Is Mr. Simon: The hon. Gentleman shouts “cricket” my hon. Friend aware that switchover is affecting valued from a sedentary position. I can tell him that the services on both radio and television? I have been Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, lobbied by Teachers TV, which fears that it will lose an my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, South enormous part of its audience because the Department (Mr. Sutcliffe), was at the cricket, which almost certainly for Children, Schools and Families is stipulating that it accounts for the first English victory at Lord’s since, I must switch over totally to digital. believe, 1934. 563 Oral Answers20 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 564

In response to what we might call the “Tory sums” of Sir Ian McKellen began his acting career in Bolton. If the hon. Member for South-West Surrey (Mr. Hunt)— the free ticket scheme inspires another actor of his [Interruption.] No, Tory sums. We do not know how calibre, it will have been money very well spent. many analogue radios are in circulation; it may be 65 million. The first point to make is that those sets will Digital Radio Switchover not become redundant. The FM spectrum will be well used for new services that are currently squeezed out. 3. Ann Winterton (Congleton) (Con): If he will We are working with industry to come up with sets that continue to provide for analogue radio broadcasting are consistently priced at £20 or less. That will enable beyond 2015. [287439] consumers to add to the 9 million digital sets— The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Mr. Speaker: Order. May I gently say to the hon. Media and Sport (Mr. Siôn Simon): The “Digital Britain” Gentleman, who has been extremely generous in his White Paper was clear that analogue radio, via FM, will remarks, that I do not want to have to press the switch-off continue beyond 2015. After the digital radio upgrade is button, but I am a bit alarmed that he has a second completed, the vacated FM spectrum will be allocated point in mind? It might be better if he kept it for the to community radio stations and a new tier of ultra-local long winter evenings. commercial radio.

Mr. Hunt: The point is that if people use their analogue Ann Winterton: I congratulate the Minister on his sets, they will be able to listen to new radio stations, but new position, not least because I am a former pupil of not the radio stations that they have been listening to Erdington grammar school in his constituency. As he for a very long time. Was it not the height of irresponsibility knows, 52 per cent. of listeners have not converted to to announce the phasing out of analogue spectrum digital audio broadcasting. Many groups of listeners, without announcing any details or any funding for a including the blind, are concerned that their analogue help scheme, similar to the one that was in place for TV radios may be turned off in due course. That includes, switchover? Will that not cause widespread concern of course, all those analogue radios in cars. What hope among millions of radio listeners, who will feel that for the future can the Minister give those groups? they are faced with the unenviable choice of either paying up or switching off? Mr. Simon: I am grateful for the hon. Lady’s congratulations, and thank her for her adornment of Mr. Simon: I shall try to squeeze in my answer at the my constituency. To answer her two questions quickly, end of that extraordinarily long question. We will do on help for the blind, there is an important issue to do exactly the same with radio as we did with television: we with audio description for radio stations along the will carry out a full cost-benefit analysis of exactly what spectrum. We have been working for 18 months—and kind of help scheme might or might not be required, continue to work—with manufacturers to make sure and we will proceed accordingly. There are 9 million that sets that provide that description for the blind are digital sets in use already. Consumers have six years to made available at an affordable price in the digital decide how much they want to pay, for what equipment, future. On cars, we are working with the car industry to to receive which services. ensure that all new cars after 2013 contain digital radios. Technology already exists to convert FM receivers to Free Theatre Initiative digital in cars.

2. Dr. Brian Iddon (Bolton, South-East) (Lab): How Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): Is it not a fact that many tickets have been distributed through the free the BBC would have more money to improve coverage theatre initiative. [287438] and content if it spent less public money on excessive salaries and excessive expenses? The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr. Ben Bradshaw): Nearly 50,000 free tickets have Mr. Simon: My right hon. Friend must take that up been issued during the scheme’s first quarter, enabling with Sir Michael Lyons and the BBC Trust. Sir Michael thousands of young people to experience fantastic theatre will perhaps be glad of the opportunity to take up those who otherwise would not have done so. matters, because I am sure that he is conscious that he and the trust need to account to the public for them. Dr. Iddon: I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his Tourism Industry new appointment, and I look forward to working with him. The Bolton Octagon theatre hopes to give away 4,000 tickets during the lifetime of the scheme. Will he 4. Mr. Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD): What steps his congratulate it on the fact that by the end of the Department is taking to support the tourism industry summer break it will have allocated a total of 718 tickets in the south-west. [287440] of its 790 ticket allocation, which I think is pretty good? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Mr. Bradshaw: I regret that I will not be working with Media and Sport (Barbara Follett): Mr. Speaker, may I my hon. Friend for as long as I would like, as I think add my congratulations on your elevation? Having served that he is standing down at the next election, which is with you on the marathon Minimum Wage Bill, I welcome very sad. I should certainly like to join him in congratulating your conversion to short contributions. the Bolton Octagon. Not only has it had remarkable Since April 2008, aside from the marketing and economic success with the free ticket scheme, but it has had its development that my Department regularly contributes most successful year ever in ticket sales. Of course, to Visit Britain and Visit England, it has made eight 565 Oral Answers20 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 566 separate grants worth over £4.2 million to the south-west Part of the legacy programme for 2012 will be to region from its Sea Change programme, which supports ensure that we leave behind a system that encourages cultural regeneration and the visitor economy. I am those of all ages, particularly children and young people, glad to say that the largest beneficiary of those grants to play sport. The five-hour offer for children aged five was Torbay, which I can confirm was awarded £2.25 million to 16 has been expanded to include three hours a week in August 2008 for projects at Cockington Court and for those aged 16 to 19. To combat the drop-off on Berry Head. leaving school, and as part of more than £780 million of Government funding between 2008 and 2011, we are Mr. Sanders: According to a recent parliamentary investing more than £15 million to create a new network answer, the number of tourists in the south-west region of sports co-ordinators for those who have left school in fell by more than a quarter in the first quarter of this order to move on to further education. Through our year, so why is that policy not working? unprecedented investment in national governing bodies, nine sports will now also work specifically to reduce post-16 drop-off by 25 per cent. for 2013. Barbara Follett: The number of tourists in the south-west region did fall in the first quarter of this year, for a Tony Lloyd: Among other things, I would like to ask number of reasons including the credit crunch and the my hon. Friend whether in the context of the question it recession. I am glad to say, however, that initial figures is better for people to sit on Cobra rather than drink Cobra. show that it is now rising. We can see from benefit My hon. Friend knows as well as I do that there is an returns that the 10 towns with the most benefit claimants enormous drop-off in sports activity by young people returning to work have been in seaside areas, and I am post-school, particularly among young women. Will he glad to say that six of them are in the south-west, where work with local authorities and perhaps with private people are getting more work. The “staycation” and sporting clubs to ensure that his Department’s marketing short breaks are providing a good result in the south-west. to encourage people into sport is taken up by those groups so that we can see our young people get back Mr. Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth, East) (Con): One into meaningful activity? issue affecting the whole country, including the south-west, Mr. Sutcliffe: It is a pleasure to sit on the Cobra is the growth of the swine flu pandemic. Hon. Members committee, and I also enjoy a pint of Cobra now and might recall that, at the time of the foot and mouth again. outbreak and after the 9/11 attacks, the Treasury granted an additional £20 million, which was match-funded by My hon. Friend is quite right about the drop-off rate. the industry, to assist UK tourism through those difficult In trying to get 2 million more people active in sport times. I notice that there is nothing on the DCMS or and physical activities by 2012—a key legacy aim—we Visit Britain websites about swine flu. May I ask the are looking at the drop-off rate post-16. I know that in Minister and, indeed, the Secretary of State what discussions my hon. Friend’s area of Manchester and in Salford the they have had with the Treasury and the Department of local authorities are doing a great deal of work with the Health to ensure that we avoid sensationalist headlines local community, in initiatives such as StreetGames and such as that in The Daily Telegraph today—“Crowds the KICKz project, to encourage people to get involved may be banned from major sporting events”? What in sport. I am particularly pleased with Sport Unlimited, plans are there to help the British tourism industry to which is aimed at 11 to 19-year-olds; that involves keep people informed and to tell them that Britain 900 young people and £36 million of investment. I hope remains a safe place to visit? that that will help to get them into more organised sport. Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): The Minister Barbara Follett: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that will know that obesity is a huge and serious problem. If question, but I would caution him against such alarmist the Minister wants joined-up thinking and joined-up talk. I would also caution him against quoting the government with the Department of Health, why is his media, which are sometimes more interested in selling Department allowing the selling-off of four more sports copies of their newspapers than in informing— fields and more school land than ever before, which of [Interruption.] The Under-Secretary of State for Culture, course prevents young people from having access to Media and Sport, my hon. Friend the Member for sports and addressing that important issue of obesity? Bradford, South (Mr. Sutcliffe), sits on Cobra, the civil contingencies secretariat, and we are in daily contact. Mr. Sutcliffe: The hon. Gentleman usually gets his We are constantly updated on the situation. At present, facts right, but he is completely wrong on this occasion. the advice is to stay calm—I urge the hon. Gentleman It is a complete myth that sports fields are being sold to do that—not to panic and to take precautions. off. This Government have put processes in place to make sure that sports fields are not sold off. In fact, we have had a net increase in the number of sports fields. It Sport (Young People) is not just about sports fields; it is about indoor sports arenas and ensuring that we have world-class facilities 5. Tony Lloyd (Manchester, Central) (Lab): What for our youngsters and sports people. The hon. Gentleman steps his Department is taking to encourage is right about obesity, which is why the Government participation in sporting activity by young people who introduced free swimming, which more than 80 per have left school. [287441] cent. of local authorities took up. I am sorry that some Tory local authorities did not do so. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Ian Stewart (Eccles) (Lab): I have made all my falderals Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): Mr. Speaker, thanking and congratulating you, Mr. Speaker, so I will may I add my congratulations to you on your new role? move straight to the Minister, who visited my constituency 567 Oral Answers20 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 568 and saw the Hamilton-Davies trust and the Barton The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Athletic club projects in partnership with Salford city Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): We have not council. Does he agree that the project to encourage received any recent representations on the future of the young people leaving school to take up non-traditional bingo industry, but I am aware that such representations sports such as boxing, wrestling and martial arts is to be are being made to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor commended? Does he also agree that the 70 and 80-year- of the Exchequer. We recognise the important social olds whom he saw training at Barton Athletic was a role that bingo plays in many of our communities, and great example to others? continue to engage with the industry on a range of issues affecting the state of the sector. Mr. Sutcliffe: It was a great pleasure to visit my hon. Friend’s constituency and to meet people at the Barton Mr. Amess: Sadly, we have not got very far with the Athletic sports club. He is right that we saw young Treasury. Many of my constituents have contacted me people getting involved in a range of different sports, to say that they are very worried about the future of but I was very happy to see a 70-year-old and an Southend Mecca, and that they thoroughly enjoy playing 80-year-old rowing and achieving fast times in preparation the game. One hundred bingo halls have already closed for entering the world senior games. As we are talking over the past three years because of the 32 per cent. tax. about older people, let me say that it was a great Will the Minister have another word with the Treasury, pleasure to see Tom Watson nearly become the British in order to establish whether it can provide parity for open champion yesterday. I congratulate the winner, the industry and lower the tax to the rightful level of but Mr. Watson’s performance gave great hope to all 15 per cent.? those older golfers.

Mr. Don Foster (Bath) (LD): The Minister has rightly Mr. Sutcliffe: We continue to have frequent discussions said that increases in sports participation are a critical with the Treasury, but the hon. Gentleman will know part of the legacy plan for 2012, but does he acknowledge how much work the DCMS itself has done to support that after a good early start there has been stagnation? bingo. He will know, for instance, that in February we Does he accept that the latest figures show that in six increased the permitted number of B3 machines in out of nine key sports there has been no increase in the bingo halls from four to eight, and also examined stake past 12 months; that in three of those sports—rugby, and prize levels for category C and D machines. football and athletics—there has been a significant fall The hon. Gentleman is wrong about the number of in participation; and that fewer women and fewer people bingo halls that have closed. In fact, between 37 and with limiting disabilities are participating in sport? The 40 have closed over the past 12 months, which represents Government must do more. Will he acknowledge that 6 per cent. of the industry. However, that is still too there are good ideas out there, such as gift aid for junior many clubs. We are aware of the important part that membership of sports clubs and the Active Generation bingo plays in our communities, and we will continue to programme by the Prince’s Trust? What are we to make work with the industry and the Treasury to try to of newspaper reports of some new scheme to be announced alleviate its problems. next year? Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): I hear what Mr. Sutcliffe: Let me say again that, although the my hon. Friend says, but surely there is a need to lobby hon. Gentleman normally gets his facts wrong, he has the Treasury to ensure that there is some consistency in unfortunately got them wrong today. He keeps criticising the tax rates. If ever there was a need for a taskforce to the legacy that we are trying to create, but he will know work on saving one of our great British institutions, that involving 2 million more people in sport and physical this is it. Would my hon. Friend consider leading such activity by 2012 has never been achieved by any other a taskforce? host of the Olympic games. There is a fantastic challenge ahead of us, but we are already making progress. As the hon. Gentleman will know, the new funding arrangements Mr. Sutcliffe: I am always happy to be involved with for Sport England are enabling the national governing a taskforce, but given my hon. Friend’s reputation for bodies to increase participation: money is going to becoming involved in key issues, he might want to chair where sport is. More than £5 billion of lottery and this one. He will know that the Prime Minister has been Government funds has been invested since 1997. involved in the discussions about bingo. He met a I hope that the Opposition will now stop carping. If deputation from the Bingo Association, along with my good ideas are emerging, let us hear them. hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, Central (Mr. Illsley), to consider the issues in greater detail. We continue to Mr. Foster: I have just given the Minister some ideas. work with the Treasury and others to ensure that we add to the work that we have already done to support Mr. Sutcliffe: The hon. Gentleman has given me one bingo. idea. I look forward to hearing more from him. The legacy will be great, and we will achieve our figures. Simon Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) (LD): When I next speak to those at the very successful Bingo Industry bingo club at the Elephant and Castle, or the very successful bingo club in Surrey Quays, will I be able to 8. Mr. David Amess (Southend, West) (Con): What tell them that the Minister’s Department will look again recent representations he has received on the future of at the taxation of bingo, and lobby the Government, as the bingo industry; and if he will make a statement. soon as we know the court decision on participation [287444] valued added tax? That will give the Government another 569 Oral Answers20 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 570 opportunity. The Department lost the last battle, but Mr. Heathcoat-Amory: That is all very interesting, can the Minister assure us that it is determined to win but is the Minister aware that although responsible the war? publicans—I am thinking particularly about such a group in the city of Wells—are doing what they can to Mr. Sutcliffe: The hon. Gentleman has made a good counter irresponsible and antisocial drinking, when big point. We await the outcome of the court case, but we retail chains sell loss-leading and discounted alcohol continue to work with the Treasury. For example, we are the pubs are blamed for the consequences? What is the discussing the current consultation on gross profits tax Minister doing to counter that? What discussions has relating to gaming machines. As the sponsoring he had with the drinks trade to stop that particular Department, we are working closely with the industry unfairness, which is undermining responsible publicans? in the sector to try to ensure that its case is heard wherever necessary. Mr. Sutcliffe: The right hon. Gentleman raises an important point. He is right that responsible publicans Digital Television Switchover ensure that they do not serve people who have had too much alcohol. Sometimes that causes problems outside their premises. We are working with the drinks industry. 9. Mr. Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): We responded to the all-party group on beer, members What lessons learned from digital switchover in the of which are present in the House today, in trying to Border TV region will be used in planning for look at the issues around pricing, and at a mandatory switchover in other regions. [287445] code to ensure that people do not have irresponsible promotions. Many such promotions are seen on the The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport high street—for example, women can drink for free, or (Mr. Ben Bradshaw): Switchover has been successfully for £5 people can drink as much as they can. They are completed in the Selkirk and Douglas transmitter group irresponsible promotions. Like him, I congratulate those areas of the Border region, with the Caldbeck group publicans who act responsibly. area due to complete on Wednesday. A number of findings resulting from research carried out during the Mr. Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley) (Lab): My hon. Friend switchover have been used to refine switchover further is aware that the pub is part of the community. It is an for the next regions to switch. important part of that fabric, but has he thought about the number of pubs that are empty? Has he considered Mr. Brown: As my right hon. Friend has said, in two the challenge of alcohol-free pubs as an alternative days switchover will be completed in the Border TV for young people? They would be a way of controlling region. I sincerely hope that my good lady wife will young people, and of giving them a new way of life and ensure that everything is in order when that happens in an outlet. my absence. I believe that the digital switchover help scheme initially caused concern. Has the uptake that we Mr. Sutcliffe: My hon. Friend raises a good idea that budgeted for been as great as my right hon. Friend has already been acted on in a number of areas. Buildings expected? are being taken over and alcohol-free pubs are in place. I do not want people to run away with the idea that we Mr. Bradshaw: It has not been as great as we expected; think that that is a substitute for good community pubs. there is a considerable underspend. We do not think We want to see good, strong community pubs, and with that, by and large, that is because the scheme is too empty pubs that may be a good idea to develop. complicated, but issues raised in my hon. Friend’s area have been looked at, and the new advice and videos that Museums are being provided are intended to make it less complicated. The main reason for the underspend is that most people have simply done it for themselves, perhaps helped by 11. James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend, East) friends or family. The help scheme has been a great (Con): What assessment has been made of the effect of success, and has been valued by those who have used it. his Department’s renaissance programme on regional Nevertheless, there are always lessons to be learned, and museums in (a) England and (b) the east of England. we hope that we are learning them from the switchover [287447] in my hon. Friend’s area. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Barbara Follett): My Department has Pub Industry invested £242 million in the renaissance in the regions programme, which aims to raise standards and participation 10. Mr. David Heathcoat-Amory (Wells) (Con): What in museums across England. Since its inception in 2002, recent representations he has received from the public visitor numbers have increased by 18.5 per cent. In the house industry on the future of that industry; and if he east of England, visits by children aged 16 and under to will make a statement. [287446] hub museums have increased by 216 per cent. In addition 72 new jobs have been created in hub museums in the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, eastern region. Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): The Department has regular dialogue with representatives of the pub James Duddridge: I thank the Minister for that reply. industry and other areas of the tourism and hospitality Perhaps it shows my ignorance but I do not know what industry. That is essential to ensure that licensing policy a hub museum is. The museums in Southend are very reduces unnecessary burdens on small businesses while good, but residents and children in particular from maintaining the necessary public protection. Southend often travel to London to visit some of the 571 Oral Answers20 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 572 larger museums. What more can be done through the something for us to do in October and November renaissance programme to encourage visits to regional before the Queen’s Speech. May I take it as read, museums, particularly by people from the east of England however, that it will definitely be in the Queen’s Speech? and other regions that are quite close to central London? Mr. Bradshaw: My hon. Friend will, of course, Barbara Follett: I know that the Department’s statutory understand that we cannot at this stage say what will body, the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council, definitely be in the Queen’s Speech—we cannot do so has been working with Southend to increase its offer. I until Her Majesty stands up and delivers her Gracious know that the council has many exciting projects, Speech—but given that it is in the draft programme and particularly concerning the Saxon King museum, and it has been heralded by the Government as one of the that a bid has been submitted for the Southend pier mainstays of our active industrial strategy, I think he head project. As Minister for the East of England, I am can be fairly confident that it has good prospects of obviously watching all those things closely and I am being there. happy to help the hon. Gentleman with that work. Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York) (Con): Given the David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): possibility that such a Bill might be in the legislative Snibston discovery park is a regional museum based on programme, will the Secretary of State confirm that it the former colliery of that name, sunk by the great will cover access to foreign language stations after the George Stephenson. Wouldthe Minister accept an invitation digital switchover for radio coverage? to come and look at the work that is done there? Creativity, energy and professionalism has enabled the Mr. Bradshaw: I am afraid that I will have to write to museum to reinvent itself in the most impressive fashion. the hon. Lady about that, if she will allow me. It is a successful museum for an area much wider than north-west Leicestershire. We could do worse than to Video Games have that as a beacon for the way ahead. 13. Keith Vaz (Leicester, East) (Lab): What recent Mr. Edward Vaizey (Wantage) (Con): As this is my discussions he has had with pan-European game first appearance under your watchful eye, Mr. Speaker, information on the age classification of video games. may I add to the legion of congratulations that have [287449] been sent your way and put on record my huge admiration for the job you are doing? [HON.MEMBERS: “More!”] I The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, still have three minutes, and I could go on. Media and Sport (Mr. Siôn Simon): I have spoken to the On Wednesday, the Minister will publish her independent Video Standards Council—the current UK agents for review of renaissance in the regions, which she will the PEGI system—about the classification of video describe as a real success. The report itself is, however, games and have another meeting scheduled with it very highly critical of the management of renaissance in the soon. I have also had discussions with the British Board regions, including the criticisms of incomplete accounts, of Film Classification. Both organisations are working a lack of financial reporting and a lack of documentation. hard to ensure the success of the new system. Is this why the report, which was given to the Minister at the beginning of March, is being published only at Keith Vaz: I thank the Minister for his answer and the end of July—the beginning of the summer recess? welcome the steps that the Government are taking on this issue. However, it is still a matter of concern that a Barbara Follett: The report is, in fact, being published game such as “RapeLay”, which shows extreme violence in two days’ time. [Interruption.] Yes, but that is not the against women, can be downloaded from the internet. end of July. It is being published on 22 July, and until it What steps are the Government taking to ensure that comes out I shall not comment on it. such games are not accessed from the internet, so that children and young people are properly protected? Broadcasting Bill Mr. Simon: We should be clear that the game was not 12. Derek Wyatt (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Lab): classified, but was briefly available on Amazon and What plans he has for pre-legislative scrutiny of the then was banned. The point that my right hon. Friend is broadcasting Bill. [287448] making is about games that, like other brutal, unpleasant, illegal content, can be available on the internet. All The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport steps that apply to any other content on the internet will (Mr. Ben Bradshaw): The digital economy Bill is not one apply to games. Specifically, as part of the Byron review of those in the draft programme proposed for pre-legislative we set up the UK Council for Child Internet Safety to scrutiny. Many of its proposals were contained in the work with content providers, internet service providers interim “Digital Britain” document that we published and all aspects of Government to make sure that such in January. They have been the subject of reports by content cannot be accessed, particularly by children. Select Committees in both Houses, and we are currently consulting on the proposals made in the final report Mr. Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) last month. (Con): The Minister will know that Britain is a great leader in video and computer games, and while I take Derek Wyatt: I thank the Secretary of State for that on board many of the concerns expressed by the right answer, and I welcome him to his new position. I am hon. Member for Leicester, East (Keith Vaz), will the sorry that that Bill will not be in the pre-legislative Minister recognise that this is a global industry, not programme, because if it were there would have been simply a European one, and in so far as we are going to 573 Oral Answers20 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 574 have the safeguards to which the right hon. Gentleman Mr. Bradshaw: I certainly share my hon. Friend’s refers, we will clearly also need to have global regulation concern about the fate of local newspapers, as I believe along those lines? we all do in this House. Those papers are the lifeblood of our local democracy, they hold local authorities and Mr. Simon: The system of regulation for which we other bodies to account and they are a very important have opted—the PEGI system—is pan-European, and part of our democracy. If he has studied the as such, we see it as the building block to moving recommendations in our “Digital Britain” White Paper, towards a global regulatory future. The key principle is he will have seen a number of proposals that will help, that the markings on games should make it clear to including the establishment of independent news parents which games are suitable for adults and which consortiums to help provide local and regional news. are suitable and unsuitable for children and young Such an approach could include ownership or part- children. Adults should be allowed to access adult ownership by existing or new newspaper organisations. content; children most certainly should not. We are examining a number of areas in order to help local newspapers, because we agree that they are vital.

Topical Questions T2. [287457] Mr. Anthony Steen (Totnes) (Con): Does the Secretary of State agree that if the entire population of Exeter were kidnapped, that would make T1. [287456] Sandra Gidley (Romsey) (LD): If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. a huge news story, yet approximately the same number of people are trafficked every year in and around Europe, be it for debt bondage or as sex slaves? Will he The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport put his name to a suggestion that the media launch a (Mr. Ben Bradshaw): We are responsible for a number of new initiative—a new crusade—to draw attention to important areas. We are announcing excellent results this worldwide evil? for our free swimming and free theatre tickets initiatives this week. I wish to add to the earlier congratulations to Mr. Bradshaw: I hope that the hon. Gentleman will Andrew Strauss and his team on their superb result at forgive me for saying that it is not my job to tell media Lord’s. In doing so, we should not forget the achievement organisations what they should investigate and what of our women’s cricket team, who have won every they should do. However, may I pay tribute to the international competition this year. We believe that they excellent work that he has done in this House to highlight have made themselves the most successful English sporting the problem of human trafficking? I am very sorry that team in a single year in history. he will not be here in the future to continue doing that. Perhaps now that he, sadly, has more time on his hands, Sandra Gidley: The Secretary of State makes a good he will be able to spend some of it persuading media point about the influence of sport, but does he think it organisations to do exactly what he has just advocated. is right that sporting events should advertise alcohol? Does he not think it is time to bring an end to that? Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab): I want to ask the Minister what the news is following my intervention Mr. Bradshaw: The hon. Lady will know that we are last Thursday with the education and skills people considering that at the moment. There will always be a about the co-location of the Royal Opera House and balance to be struck between the sort of messages that National Skills Academy for Creative and Cultural advertising sends out about healthy living and its health Skills project in Thurrock. She will have noticed that I impact—those issues will concern people a great deal—and accused the Government of not being involved in joined-up the importance of sporting events and sport generally government and of being confused and dysfunctional. being properly funded. That applies to many of the To ask a pithy question: can we have the money to get funds that go to sports at grass-roots level. this site under way this summer—yes or no?

T3. [287458] Hugh Bayley (City of York) (Lab): Local The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, newspapers make politicians and public officials more Media and Sport (Barbara Follett): To give a pithy accountable, but sadly, many titles have ceased printing answer, I am doing my utmost to get my hon. Friend the because of a fall in advertising revenue and a migration money. I am nagging, pushing and writing to the relevant of advertising to the internet. On 20 January, in Minister. I am doing everything I can to get the money, Westminster Hall, I proposed cross-subsidising local because I, too, have an interest in this. papers with the internet revenue. In its early days Channel 4 was cross-subsidised with ITV advertising T4. [287459] Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): revenue, without that undermining Channel 4’s editorial In 1934 there was a Labour Government in deep trouble freedom. Will my right hon. Friend examine the possibility in the midst of an economic recession. The only bright of applying the same principle to local newspapers spot that year was the England cricket team beating the being cross-subsidised by internet advertising revenue? Australians at Lord’s. The following year, Labour was turfed out and a Conservative Government were elected, Mr. Bradshaw rose— who led the country out of recession. Does the Minister agree that it is great news that history is repeating itself? Mr. Speaker: Order. Before the Secretary of State replies, may I say to the House that there is a tendency The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, now for topical questions to be more like discursive Media and Sport (Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe): It is great news essays? What we are seeking is a pithy question and a that the England cricket team won a test match at pithy answer. Lord’s against Australia for the first time since 1934, 575 Oral Answers20 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 576 and it is also great that the England women’s cricket a cross-party delegation with leading members from team has won everything in its path. Another thing that the creative industries in the next few months to discuss has happened that has never happened before is the their concerns? biggest investment there has ever been in sport, made by this Government. I hope that we will have more success, Mr. Bradshaw: I am sure that my hon. Friend or I built on the success that we had at the Olympics and would be happy to meet the hon. Gentleman and a Paralympics in Beijing last year—and the hon. Gentleman delegation, but he will be aware that this is primarily a should not count his chickens. matter for the Ministry of Justice. We are certainly aware of the concerns that he expresses: I understand T9. [287464] Jessica Morden (Newport, East) (Lab): that they will all be covered in a forthcoming consultation With Cardiff’s successful hosting of the Ashes and the document that the Secretary of State for Justice will Ryder cup coming to Newport next year, does the launch in the near future. Minister agree that we should take full advantage of the growing levels of expertise in Wales in hosting Mr. Graham Allen (Nottingham, North) (Lab): Can major sporting events, so that we can have more in the anybody on the Front Bench explain why the Government future? abolished the regional sports boards?

Mr. Sutcliffe: My hon. Friend is right. Not only did Mr. Sutcliffe: Yes: it was a decision to try to cut the we have a successful test match in Glamorgan, but the bureaucracy within Sport England and to put the money school games will take place later this year, and the directly into sports governing bodies, which we have Ryder cup will be in Wales next year. In Wales, and all done. We are working with county sports partnerships over the UK, expertise is being built up in sporting and local government. The regional sports bodies did events, and I congratulate all involved in Wales on well, but were not operating effectively and efficiently hosting some tremendous events. enough. That is why we made the change.

T6. [287461] Ann Winterton (Congleton) (Con): The T8. [287463] Mr. David Evennett (Bexleyheath and British amusement industry believes that the Crayford) (Con): My constituents are very concerned Government should abandon their proposed gross about the very high salaries paid to some at the BBC. profits tax as a further unnecessary administrative Does the Secretary of State share those concerns? burden, and instead work with the industry to deliver efficiencies to benefit both Government and business. Mr. Bradshaw: Those must be a matter for the BBC. Will the Minister work with the industry to benefit not It has plenty of senior managers who are well paid just the industry but the Treasury and the public, not enough to make such decisions and account for them, least in the seaside arcade sector? without it being necessary for me to micro-manage salary levels for staff. I have always made it clear, Mr. Sutcliffe: We have supported the seaside arcades. including to the BBC, that we live in an age of transparency As the hon. Lady will know, we had a review of the and accountability. We in this place have been through a category C and D machines and we have also considered painful process of moving towards that, which I welcome. category B. The gross profits tax is part of the overall In the long run it will do this place a great deal of good. issue, but we will continue to talk to the Treasury. We I am not aware of any institution or organisation that work with the industry on a regular basis and we have has not benefited by being more open. alleviated many of the problems of seaside arcades, although there is a lot more to be done. Mr. Jim Devine (Livingston) (Lab): Ronaldo sold for £80 million, Manchester City effectively owned by a Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend country and offering John Terry wages of £250,000 a agree that on a day when we have won the first Ashes week, and an English manager saying that every player test match at Lord’s since 1934, it is a shame that it was in Scotland is available at a price: is it not time we had shown only on a fee-paying channel, not a terrestrial an investigation into the running and funding of British channel where more people would have seen it and football? perhaps been encouraged to participate in the sport in the future? Mr. Sutcliffe: My hon. Friend will know that is exactly why we wrote to the premier league, the Football Mr. Sutcliffe: That is why the Government have instituted League and the Football Association with a number of a review, chaired by David Davies. We hope that his questions about the sustainability of football, together panel will respond by September. I agree with my hon. with issues around home-grown players. It is right for Friend that it is sad when people can only see edited the Government to express the concern of ordinary highlights on Channel 5, and sometimes not even those. fans and our communities about what is happening in We have to strike a balance between money going into football. The premier league is the best in the world and the game and the opportunity for a wider audience to we want it to remain so, but we need transparency and see such significant events. sustainability. I shall be writing to the football authorities in the next few weeks to try to help move this thing T7. [287462] Dr. Evan Harris (Oxford, West and Abingdon) forward, because there is great concern about the (LD): Is the Secretary of State aware of concerns in the sustainability and viability of many football clubs. creative industries that the way in which English libel laws operate, or at least London’s reputation as the T10. [287465] Mr. Andrew Mackay (Bracknell) (Con): libel capital of the world, is suppressing freedom of Following the earlier unsatisfactory exchange, will the expression and creative freedom? Will he agree to meet Secretary of State now assure the House that the 577 Oral Answers20 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 578

Government are taking the threat of swine flu to the to take particular note of a gifted young tenor who British tourism industry this year seriously? Will he tell sings “Jerusalem” at the Ashes. His name is Sean Ruane us what representations he has been making to the and he comes from Rossendale in my constituency. May industry? I also urge my right hon. Friend to give serious consideration to whether he might have a musical role in the 2012 Mr. Bradshaw: Those conversations go on all the Olympics? time. I urge Opposition Front Benchers not immediately to see parallels with foot and mouth, which involved a Tessa Jowell: I thank my hon. Friend. I am sure that completely different set of circumstances. At the time, Sean’s talents, now recorded in Hansard, will go from mistakes were made; too much of the countryside was strength to strength. I draw her attention to the consultation closed down for the wrong reasons—partly because we that is taking place around the country about the content were under pressure from the agricultural industry not of the opening ceremony, which I hope will be many to let people walk over land. In all the reviews of foot things, but in no small part a showcase for great young and mouth it has been acknowledged that that was a British talent. mistake At this stage, there is no suggestion that the swine flu epidemic need impact at all on tourism or on Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): What the sort of gatherings that my Department sponsors— recent changes have been made to the budget to support sporting or cultural, or festivals. I was at two festivals the ambitious new programme that, according to The over the weekend—[HON.MEMBERS: “Which ones?”] Independent on Sunday, the Government are apparently Latitude and the wonderful Tolpuddle Martyrs festival. launching to support grass-roots sport? How much People should carry on leading their lives as normal. sooner does the Minister think the Government will reach the target of getting 1 million more people into sport as a result of the campaign?

OLYMPICS Tessa Jowell: The budget to which I have just referred is almost entirely for construction, security and non-sport, non-participation activity. The costs to which the hon. The Minister for the Olympics was asked— Gentleman referred are being met in a variety of ways: Budget the investment in school sport, community sports clubs and the reconstruction of facilities, and the £100 million 1. Ann Winterton (Congleton) (Con): What recent a year that the Big Lottery Fund is spending on sport. changes have been made to the overall budget for the That all means that whereas in 1997, when this Government London 2012 Olympics. [287466] came to power, Exchequer investment in sport was £50 million, that figure is now £400 million, so the The Minister for the Olympics (Tessa Jowell): The campaign to get 1 million more people taking part in £9.325 billion funding package that I announced to the sport on top of the participation by young people at House in March 2007 remains the budget for the Olympics. school is being funded by a steady increase in investment. The project remains on budget and on time, and as part of my commitment to budget transparency, I have since Several hon. Members rose— May 2009 been publishing updates on a quarterly basis. The latest quarterly update was published earlier today. Mr. Speaker: Order. I would like to get through a few more questions and answers, and if we show some Ann Winterton: Bearing in mind the United Kingdom’s self-discipline, we will do just that. present economic difficulties, is the Minister confident that sufficient funds will be forthcoming from the private Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): Does my right hon. sector for the 2012 games, and that the contingency Friend agree that one way in which we will measure the fund will prove sufficient to fill the potential funding success of the Olympics is by participation in sport gap? beyond 2012? Does she recognise the important and value-for-money role that can be played by non-for-profit Tessa Jowell: Yes, I am. That is an important question, voluntary organisations in delivering that and encouraging so it is worth placing it on record that 65 per cent. of the participation in sport as we approach the Olympics? contingency remains unspent. We are confident that it is sufficient to complete construction and the other Tessa Jowell: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and commitments made in the budget. In relation to the frequently makes that point. The thousands of sports hon. Lady’s questions about the private sector, she will clubs throughout the country are the backbone of know—because I have reported to the House—that participation, and their contribution will enable us to contingency funding was used to make good the shortfall achieve the target of getting 1 million more people in private sector contributions both to the press and active in sport. broadcast centre and to investment in the Olympic village—an investment that will yield about 2,800 homes. Hugh Robertson (Faversham and Mid-Kent) (Con): The private sector contribution to the staging cost of A key element in containing the overall budget is the the games through the organising committee remains use of the stadium in legacy mode. I think that everybody well on target, at more than £500 million. would agree that Manchester showed the way after the Commonwealth games. In her initial public Janet Anderson (Rossendale and Darwen) (Lab): May pronouncements Baroness Ford, the new chairman of I add my congratulations to you on your election, the legacy company, has indicated her desire to re-examine Mr. Speaker? I urge my right hon. Friend the Minister the issue of a football use, and both the Rugby Football 579 Oral Answers20 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 580

Union and the Rugby Football League are keen to use Paralympic Games the stadium to support their bids. Given that the last four European cup finals have been played in dual-use stadiums, is the right hon. Lady prepared to re-examine 4. Mr. David S. Borrow (South Ribble) (Lab): What her opposition to such a move? steps she is taking to ensure the success of the London 2012 Paralympics. [287469] Tessa Jowell: The hon. Gentleman knows that I have discussed this with Baroness Ford. We have not yet won The Minister for the Olympics (Tessa Jowell): We are the right to host the World cup in 2018. Clearly, if our determined to ensure that there is full equivalence between excellent bid is successful, there will of course be a case the Paralympics and the summer games and that the for re-examination, but this is not cost-free, and the Paralympics are fully integrated into the organising House should understand that plans will proceed to committee’s plans, with a cross-Government Paralympic make sure that we honour our commitment to the legacy plan, which will identify how we are going to use International Olympic Committee and to athletes across the power of the Paralympics to increase opportunities the country in the bid book, that we will have, as a for disabled people more widely. legacy for the games, a 20,000-seater, grand prix-capable athletics stadium. We are making good progress in Mr. Borrow: A couple of weeks ago I attended a building the legacy. Tenants include a school, the English leavers assembly at Ashbridge school in my constituency, Institute of Sport and the National Skills Academy. at which a presentation was made by Shelly Woods Baroness Ford is eager to squeeze every last benefit of from Blackpool. Shelly won a silver medal and a bronze legacy from every single venue, and I support her in medal at the Beijing Paralympics and made a truly that, but I want certainty and planning for the legacy of inspirational presentation. What opportunities will exist the stadium. to celebrate the Paralympics, as well as the Olympics, in the forthcoming open weekend? Costs Tessa Jowell: I thank my hon. Friend and join him 2. Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): What in congratulating Shelley on her contribution. The her most recent estimate is of the cost of staging the forthcoming open weekend, which will mark three years London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic games. [287467] to go until the opening of the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic games, will be marked across the country. The Minister for the Cabinet Office and for the Olympics, Some 750 events are already registered, and I encourage and Paymaster General (Tessa Jowell): I shall answer hon. Members from all parts of the House to take part. speedily, Mr. Speaker. The cost of staging the games In the north-west, my hon. Friend can go to one of will primarily be met from the £2 billion budget of the many events, which include the academy cup at Greenbank London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games sports academy and many others besides. The open and Paralympic Games, which was raised principally weekend will be a great moment to celebrate achievements from the private sector. The costs of additional wider so far, and Olympic and Paralympic sports will both security and policing, and a £66 million public sector feature. contribution towards the Paralympic games, are contained in the £9.3 billion public sector funding package. Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): This weekend As would be expected with a major national event of a great Olympian became the world boxing champion. this kind, there will also be other attributable costs to Amir Khan is a great role model for young people in the public purse, and they will be funded from within this country, yet small boxing clubs where people like departmental expenditure limits. him will come from in future are struggling. I wonder whether the Minister or the sports Minister, the Under- Sir Nicholas Winterton: Sport transcends politics. Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, the Every party in the House wants the 2012 Olympic hon. Member for Bradford, South (Mr. Sutcliffe) would games to be an outstanding success for the benefit of like to visit a new boxing club in my constituency and our great country. Can the Minister give any further see not only the great young people coming forward, details about which operations may be scaled back if but the financial problems that they face. there is a shortfall in sponsorship and revenue from the private sector? That is important: we want a success, but we also want the facts. Tessa Jowell: I am sure that the House will want to congratulate Amir Khan. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely Tessa Jowell: The hon. Gentleman is right that the right about his dedication to providing leadership to Olympic games are being planned and delivered on a young men—and, indeed, young women—right across cross-party basis as far as humanly possible. The second the country as they take up boxing. As my hon. Friend point, however, is that as the development of the park the sports Minister has pointed out, investment is going has proceeded, decisions have been taken to put in into boxing clubs because of Amir Khan’s advocacy further public sector investment where private sector and the evident benefits to young people. financing has not been forthcoming. In staging the event, the organising committee will take full account Mr. Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): of the likelihood of meeting its budget, which it expects What progress is being made on the recruitment of to do. It is also worth the House recording that the thousands of volunteers from right across the United committee is already substantially ahead of its private Kingdom to ensure that the Paralympics and the Olympics sponsorship-raising activities, so we have cause for in 2012 are the outstanding success that we all want confidence on that point. them to be? 581 Oral Answers20 JULY 2009 Oral Answers 582

Tessa Jowell: The plans for volunteer recruitment will have already registered their interest. We in Government be announced next year and recruitment will start shortly are absolutely determined to ensure that all volunteers thereafter. However, the scale of public enthusiasm for who offer themselves for the games have an opportunity the forthcoming Olympics can be measured by the fact to get involved in their community in one way or that although some 70,000 volunteers will be recruited another. by the organising committee, more than 250,000 people 583 20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu Update 584

Swine Flu Update of flu-like illness. By 15 July, this had increased to 110 PCTs—hence our immediate decision last week to activate the national pandemic flu service. The latest 3.34 pm figures show that nine out of 10 NHS regions are now The Secretary of State for Health (Andy Burnham): showing exceptional levels of flu-like illness, based on With permission, Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a GP consultations. statement on the AH1Nl swine flu pandemic. I wish to GPs are on the front line in this pandemic. They are do three things today: to update the House on the coping admirably with the increased work load, and I spread of the virus, to provide additional details about am sure that the House will want to extend its thanks to the launch of the national pandemic flu service, and to them, to their staff and to everybody working so hard set out how Members in all parts of the House will be throughout the health service, the Health Protection kept informed during the summer recess. Agency and the Department of Health. All professionals In recent weeks, we have discovered a great deal more deserve our full support, and the best way to do this is about the swine flu virus. While it has spread quickly, to find new ways to relieve pressure on the front line. the virus has not become more dangerous. For the vast The technology to launch the national pandemic flu majority, swine flu remains a mild and self-limiting service has been available for some time, but given the illness—and let me be clear: our advice to the public latest HPA figures, and drawing on advice from the about dealing with it has not changed. However, as the field, we have now reached a point where the service is number of cases rises, it is understandable that people required. I can therefore confirm that the service will go are becoming more concerned, and all organisations live in England by the end of this week, subject to have a role to play in providing reassuring, consistent testing. It will be accompanied by a major public and clear advice. information campaign. After the launch, people will no First, I wish to deal directly with advice to pregnant longer need to ring their GP: they can either answer women, which, again, has not changed since the outbreak questions online via the new website or ring the call began. The chief medical officer says that most pregnant centre service, where trained staff will be able to assess women with swine flu will get only mild symptoms, but them over the phone. If swine flu is confirmed, they will pregnancy brings a higher risk of complications. Bearing then get an authorisation number, which their flu friend these risks in mind, at present mothers-to-be are advised can use to pick up antivirals from local antiviral collection to continue normal activities such as going to work, points. I will ensure that all Members receive information travelling on public transport, and attending events and on the location and number of collection points in their family gatherings. However, they are advised to take the area before the launch of the service later this week. following steps to reduce their risk of infection and In Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, the situation complications: first, to observe good hand hygiene, with is different. We have not seen the same rate of spread, frequent use of soap and water; secondly, wherever and, as a result, the service will not be in operation in possible, to avoid contact with someone who is known those countries this week, but they may choose to opt in or suspected to have swine flu; and thirdly, if they have at a later date. People in those regions should, therefore, flu-like symptoms, to make early contact with a general continue checking their symptoms on the NHS website, practitioner, who may advise treatment with antiviral or via the swine flu information line, and then call their drugs. If in doubt, pregnant women should seek advice, GP for diagnosis over the phone. and if they think they have symptoms, they need to contact their GP as soon as possible for antiviral treatment. The Government must be as open as possible about The chief medical officer will be reissuing this advice the potential scale of the threat, so that organisations in later today. the public and private sectors can plan effectively. Last I also understand that families with small children week’s planning assumptions set out reasonable “worst have concerns. The key characteristic of swine flu is case scenarios” for them to plan against. We published a fever. The first thing that parents should do is check range of figures covering the numbers who could get whether their child has a temperature at or over 38° C. swine flu; experience complications, and be hospitalised They should then contact the national pandemic flu or die. The assumptions also cover the number who service, once it has launched, or their GP, if their child could be absent from work because they or their family has a high temperature and any one of the following get swine flu. symptoms: tiredness, headache, sore throat, shortness Let me stress again that those are worst case scenarios, of breath, loss of appetite, vomiting and diarrhoea, not predictions—and we need the media to play their aching muscles, or limb and joint pain. part in reporting them as such. For the NHS, the Since my last statement to the House, the daily reported assumptions mean that it can now step up its preparations figures from the Health Protection Agency have been to cope with a sudden surge in swine flu cases, and it replaced by weekly estimates based on the numbers already has detailed plans in place. Similarly, infrastructure reporting flu-like illness to their GPs. The latest figures providers and other essential operators, such as food published on Thursday show how the number of cases suppliers and electricity, gas and water companies, already has grown, with 55,000 new cases of swine flu reported have continuity plans to maintain services. However, last week alone. There were 652 people in hospital, 53 of organisations of all kinds should now establish plans to whom were in critical care. There had been 26 deaths reduce the threat that swine flu poses to the economy. in England. The Government have published guidance documents The figures also confirm that the virus has now taken on continuity planning, and we have also set up a new hold around the country, rather than in isolated pockets, business advisory network for flu to provide a single and show how quickly this has happened. On 8 July, source of information and advice. Full details are available just six primary care trusts reported exceptional levels on the business link website—www.businesslink.gov.uk. 585 Swine Flu Update20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu Update 586

Let me now update the House on vaccines. The receive it. Will the Secretary of State agree to a review Department of Health has already signed contracts of that in due course, although obviously not at this with two manufacturers to supply enough vaccine for stage? the whole population. According to their delivery schedules, It is clear that there is still a considerable degree of we should begin receiving supplies from August, with confusion about what people should and should not do enough becoming available for at least 30 million people about this flu. Publishing planning assumptions and by the end of the year. Clearly, we want the vaccine to preparing for the worst is one thing, but we really do be available as soon as possible, but we cannot compromise need the Government more effectively to explain that, on safety. We will take all necessary steps to ensure that up to now, we are not experiencing the worst-case the vaccine is appropriately tested. scenario, and that we can therefore take a “business as We are also now planning the vaccination programme usual” approach, except for those who have symptoms so that we can start administering vaccines to priority or contract this influenza. Can the Secretary of State groups, including NHS and social care staff, as soon as confirm that from later this week, everyone who needs we get the green light to proceed. We will continue to to will be able to access diagnosis and antiviral treatment take the best independent scientific advice on all questions via the pandemic flu line? Will he say what are the about vaccination. maximum distances to what he describes as local antiviral Finally, I recognise that hon. Members must be updated collection points? Can he explain why pharmacists are during the parliamentary recess. I have therefore asked being used in some areas but not in others? Why cannot strategic health authorities to provide weekly briefings they be used more generally for now, while the numbers for MPs coinciding with the HPA’s national updates. involved remain limited? They will cover local information on the number of Over the weekend, conflicting advice was issued to diagnosed and confirmed cases and hospitalisations, expectant mothers. Consistent and accurate advice is as well as updates on antiviral collection points, local paramount in a situation in which we are trying to information on any clusters or other specific developments, maintain public confidence, so can the Secretary of and a hotline number for hon. Members to use to State tell the House what steps he is taking to ensure contact their local strategic health authority. that the chief medical officer liaises with the royal In addition, the civil contingencies committee will colleges and other associations to achieve consistency meet weekly, and Ministers and officials will be in close and clarity of advice to the public? contact throughout the summer months to respond to An interim solution for the national pandemic flu emerging issues. This evening, there will be a briefing line is to be put in place. We know that the Treasury session open to all Members with the chief medical delayed until December signing the contract for a full officer. solution with BT. Even so, this March, the Secretary of I am also grateful to the hon. Members for South State’s Department said that it could be available by Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley) and for North Norfolk April or May. It should, according to the plan, have (Norman Lamb) for the constructive conversations that been activated in mid-June, when the pandemic alert we have had. I will of course keep Conservative and was declared, but it was not. To that extent, it is a Liberal Democrat Front Benchers updated over the month late. It is clear that much of the confusion that summer, and we will continue regular discussions with we have seen in that month could have been avoided if Health Ministers in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland the Government had delivered the pandemic flu line on to ensure a consistent UK-wide response. time. BT says that it did all that was asked of it. Who and what caused the delay? In conclusion, concern has risen and there is increasing pressure on services, but there is no change to the advice The Secretary of State still maintains that vaccination or to Government plans. It is because we have planned could begin by September. There is a great deal of carefully for this eventuality that we have large quantities public interest in a potential new vaccine, so it is vital of antivirals, a national pandemic flu service about to that the Government set out clearly the process for launch, and a vaccine on the way. That constitutes a licensing and implementation. Clearly, the fact that a solid base on which to deal with future challenges. I vaccine has been manufactured does not mean that it commend the statement to the House. has been licensed by the European Medicines Agency, the EMEA. We do not yet know whether the EMEA Mr. Andrew Lansley (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): will be able to fast-track licensing based on the mock-up The House will be grateful to the Secretary of State for dossier, or whether it will need additional clinical data. his further update on the flu pandemic response. I am We do know that in 1976, the US authorities began a sure that hon. Members also wish to offer our condolences vaccination programme with an unlicensed vaccine that to the families of those who have died as a result of had damaging side effects. Can the Secretary of State contracting the H1N1 virus. Again, I join the Secretary therefore confirm that it is the Government’s intention of State in expressing our gratitude to all the NHS staff, to proceed only with a licensed vaccine? particularly in primary care, for their response to the I have asked the Secretary of State and his predecessors growing pressures arising from the virus. several times for a debate on vaccine prioritisation. Will The House will know that we supported the containment he publish the advice on the criteria for that, and on the strategy and the shift to a treatment-only policy. In benefit of vaccinating young adults compared with time, it will be important to understand how effective vaccinating the elderly, who appear to have some acquired the containment strategy was in practice. There is some immunity? Can he tell us how many people aged 55-plus evidence to suggest that a significant number of people are estimated to have contracted the virus? Of course, who might have been given antiviral treatment while we need also to know who he anticipates will fall into the containment strategy was being pursued, or given the at-risk category groups for vaccination, coming prophylactic access to antiviral drugs, did not in fact immediately after health and social care workers. 587 Swine Flu Update20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu Update 588

[Mr. Andrew Lansley] usual” message at all times, as have the Minister of State, Department of Health, my hon. Friend the Member We have to plan for many more hospitalisations over for Lincoln (Gillian Merron), and Professor Sir Liam coming weeks. The planning assumptions are for a Donaldson. I can do so again for the hon. Member for clinical attack rate of up to 30 per cent. Will the South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley) today; indeed, I Secretary of State now publish the modelling that forms did so in my statement. That is always the context. the evidence base for that assumption? What is the basis The hon. Gentleman asked me about antiviral collection for his belief that up to 50 per cent. of children may points and the steps being taken to ensure that they are contract this influenza? accessible to people all over the country. He asked We know that the UK has the smallest number of whether there should be maximum distances. Obviously, critical care beds in relation to population of any major those are matters for every primary care trust. I said in health system. May I ask the Secretary of State again my statement that I have asked that all Members be what criteria he thinks should be applied to the cancellation given information on the local collection points in their of elective operations, and what plans the Government constituencies. We will make sure that that information have to train additional NHS staff in the use of non-invasive is given before the national pandemic flu service launches. ventilatory support? It is possible that pharmacies could play a greater role Finally, last Thursday Margaret Chan of the World in developing that network, and I am open to the Health Organisation warned of the threat that developing possibility that any Member, from any part of the countries face and their disadvantage in placing orders House, may bump into me in the next few days and say, for a finite supply of vaccines. What more do the “We haven’t got enough collection points; some people Government intend to do to ensure that access to will find it a long distance to travel.” Let us have that vaccination reaches the most at-risk groups in developing discussion, and respond to concerns, as we go along. countries? We are confident that from the latter part of this week, we can stand up a service that will significantly relieve Andy Burnham: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his pressure on primary care and enable us to get medication remarks, and I agree with him: I am sure that we would to people who need it quickly. all wish to pass on our condolences to those who have, The hon. Gentleman asked me about the advice for sadly, seen a loved one die in the current outbreak. I pregnant mothers, which he said was confusing. Let me also want to put on record again my thanks to the staff say again that our advice has not changed. I cannot of the national health service, particularly those working make that clear enough. The front page of a newspaper at primary care level. I visited the antiviral collection stated that one voluntary body had said that people point in Tower Hamlets this morning. Obviously, there should not plan for a pregnancy—should postpone has been some very real pressure on staff on the front pregnancy, in effect—and there was a response to that line, who are dealing with lots of cases. In that part of from the Royal College of General Practitioners. I the country, where staff have dealt with some of the would be grateful if he would listen to this point: highest levels of pressure, they have coped admirably comment has been made on the advice prepared a long well. We all owe them a great deal of thanks, as we plan time ago for H5N1, bird flu, which, as I think he knows, to deal with the further challenges ahead. would have been a more serious virus. It is important Let me go through the issues that the hon. Gentleman that care is taken to ensure that the statements that are raised; I shall take each one in turn. He asked me first made relate to the current advice. As I say, that advice about the policy of containment, and asked whether I has not changed. would commission a review. I am confident—this is The Royal College of General Practitioners and the backed up by the advice from experts in the Department— Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists have that the containment policy worked well. It allowed us played a superb role over the past few weeks, and I am more time and breathing space, and it provided high-quality sure that they will continue to do so. Both organisations information, with which we were able to assess the early have given clear advice today and in the past week, and development of the virus. It is right to say, of course, of course we will continue to liaise with them to ensure that there came a point when it was hard to sustain the that they can continue to play that role. procedures of the containment policy in areas that were experiencing great pressure. He will recall that we relieved The hon. Gentleman said that the national pandemic that pressure by allowing the outbreak management flu service was “a month late”, and asked who had phase to commence. Let me just say to him that we will caused the delays. This brings us to the heart of some of come back to the issue and look again at it—now is not the information that the Liberal Democrats were putting the time to do that—but the early feeling is that the out this weekend. I am afraid that they were trying to containment period worked well, and bought us time, score a political point when none was justified. As I which helped us to plan. have explained, when I came into the Department, the The hon. Gentleman asked me about the planning clear advice to me was that it would be justified to stand assumptions. I hope that he will agree with my judgment up a new national network—with all the resource, energy that in this day and age, it is right to share with the and time that that would take—when we had simultaneous public, business and public services the information outbreaks in many parts of the country and there was that is given to the Department and Ministers about the not only pressure in two or three places but more likely effects of the virus, in terms of the spread of sustained pressure across the country. disease, hospitalisations and the deaths that sadly occur. I want to refer the hon. Gentleman back to the I have taken the judgment that we should continue with numbers that I quoted in my statement. I will read them that policy of openness, but we will at all times explain to him again, because they illuminate this point. I said: it and put it in the right context. As he will have heard, “On 8 July, just six primary care trusts reported exceptional in all my statements I have stressed the “business as levels of flu-like illness.” One week later, that figure had 589 Swine Flu Update20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu Update 590 increased to 110. On that day, 15 July, I took the I tabled a parliamentary question on collection points decision—which was endorsed by Cobra—to activate earlier this month, in which I asked the national pandemic flu service. We could have done it “how many primary care trusts had designated influenza treatment earlier, had the circumstances justified that. I have been distribution centres on 1 July 2009.”—[Official Report,13July clear since I came into the Department that the service 2009; Vol. 496, c. 174W.] could have been activated, should that have proved The answer, which I am sure the Secretary of State will necessary. The change in the facts on the ground last be interested to hear, was that the information is “not week justified the activation of the service, and I do not collected centrally”. That does not inspire confidence at believe that it is right to build a story about long delays all. Who is in charge? Does the Department have a and infighting. That has not been the case, and the handle on what PCTs are doing, or is it all delegated to decision was not technology-driven; it was driven by a different level? pressure on the ground. The hon. Gentleman asked about a vaccine. There is There have been worrying reports in the newspapers a difficult discussion to be had about putting in place a about whether children can receive the vaccine before prioritisation programme for vaccination that deals with the final trial results are available. The right hon. Gentleman higher-risk groups and health and social care staff at has tried to reassure us today, but will he explain why the same time. I believe that that can be done. Given manufacturers have been exempted from liability for that such a decision will be taken in the next week, or certain side-effects arising from the vaccines? No decision longer ahead, after the House has risen, I undertake to appears to have been made about the prioritisation of share that information in advance with the Members on vaccines, yet SAGE—the Strategic Advisory Group of both Front Benches, so that they can have an input into Experts—discussed the matter and made recommendations the decision. on 7 July. If that advice was available on 7 July, why has the Department not acted on it, and why are we still The hon. Gentleman asked about a licensed vaccine. waiting for decisions to be made? I repeat what I said in my statement: we obviously want to ensure that any vaccine is properly and thoroughly Finally, hospital staff are likely to be catered for, but tested. A process was put in place for H5N1 but, as we what about care workers? My hon. Friend the Member are dealing with a mild virus, the circumstances are now for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb) has been advised different. The balance of risk attached to pursuing an by a care home that the PCT said it did not have the unlicensed product is obviously much changed, given resources to give Tamiflu to care workers in the private that this is a mild virus. I know that the hon. Gentleman sector, who would have to pay. Given that those workers understands these complexities. For me, the important are at the front line, and given the crossover between thing is to get in place the necessary assurances on the NHS and social care, will the Secretary of State address vaccine as quickly as possible, so that we can move that? Will he also clarify what quantities of antivirals ahead with a prioritised vaccination programme, come are left and explain why so few discussions with the autumn. pharmaceutical wholesalers about the wider distribution The hon. Gentleman asked about critical care. We of these products have been held? have taken great steps, not just recently but over a long period of time, strategic health authority by strategic Andy Burnham: In replying to the hon. Lady, I will heath authority and primary care trust by primary care endeavour to respond to any points from the hon. trust, to ensure that there is sufficient critical care Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley) that I capacity in all parts of England to enable the NHS to have not answered. cope. The publication of the planning assumptions last The hon. Lady began by asking about the advice to week gave further information to help local health pregnant women. I repeat that the advice has not changed. services to plan for the expected levels of demand. Of The Department has given very clear advice since the course we will continue to do that at all stages, and to beginning—[Interruption.] Let me be absolutely clear endeavour at all stages to give full answers and all to the hon. Lady in answering her question, which is information so that the hon. Gentleman and all other very important to many people. Advice was given over hon. Members can make informed judgments on these the weekend that was based on planning for H5N1, so important matters. that clearly was not and is not relevant in this case. The Sandra Gidley (Romsey) (LD): I thank the Secretary advice was subsequently withdrawn by the organisation of State for providing a copy of an early draft of his concerned. statement. I also add my thanks to health workers who In those circumstances, it is important to ensure good are working on the front line and behind the scenes. I liaison and sharing of advice, ensuring that different want to start by asking about the advice to pregnant organisations can give their own advice—there is more mothers. Why, if the advice has not changed, did the than one voice in this debate and there is international National Childbirth Trust say that it was acting on experience to draw on. At all times, however, we want to departmental advice? Why was the website changed so give the clearest possible advice, and where further late in the day? advice or clarification is necessary, we will always provide The right hon. Gentleman talked about patients being it. As I said in my statement, the chief medical officer advised to contact the national pandemic flu service. will reissue existing advice, bringing together all the They have previously been putting quite a strain on our latest information, which I hope will provide some GPs’ services. Will he explain the six-month delay in reassurance to the hon. Lady. I do not think that getting Treasury approval for the hotline? The freedom what she said particularly helps in this situation. It is of information request made it quite clear that there important to recognise that people need clear advice, so had been a significant delay in signing it off, which we must not and should not invent confusion where could have resulted in an undue work load on our GPs. there is none. 591 Swine Flu Update20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu Update 592

[Andy Burnham] want that question to be interpreted as being in any way critical of what has happened so far, as I commend On the hon. Lady’s claims about a six-month delay, it him, his ministerial colleagues and everyone in the is important to recognise that the national pandemic flu Department and the national health service for their service is the first of its kind in the world. I am sure that contingency planning and for the implementation of if there were any problems or glitches, Members of all contingency plans, as endorsed by that responsible BBC parties would not hesitate to say that it was outrageous correspondent Mr. Fergus Walsh, whatever some other and would criticise us for launching a service that had people might say. not been properly tested. The service, which is innovative and provides a different approach, will significantly Andy Burnham: I thank my right hon. Friend. Mr. Walsh relieve pressure on the primary care front line. Our has indeed done a superb job in providing balanced decision was not technology-driven or, indeed, driven coverage to the public, and we pay tribute to him: if by delays in government. The service has been available coverage is not so well and carefully done, pressure can for commissioning for some time. With pressure increasing be put on NHS services as a result of people worrying simultaneously in different parts of the country last unnecessarily. week, I judged it the right moment to bring this service Let me outline what is happening in Camden: three into being. If we had done that any sooner, however, it chemists have extended opening hours; three antiviral could have been a distraction to staff dealing with the collection points will be in place later this week, and I early effects of the outbreak in their areas. shall ensure my right hon. Friend has the details. I am The hon. Lady made a fair point about PCTs and told that there is a flu car for those without flu friends, about data on antiviral collection points not being so there is a local distribution system for people who collected centrally. I undertook this week to supply all might find it hard to get antivirals, and 350 courses of Members with information on local antiviral collection antivirals have been issued to date. The local response points before the launch of the new service. She is varies: some PCTs are putting in plans to respond to the perfectly entitled to hold me to that commitment. requests of their local community, but in Camden, as SAGE has discussed vaccines and has made he can clearly see, a detailed local operation is already recommendations to Ministers. The Cobra civil in place. contingencies committee first discussed the matter at last week’s meeting. We recognised that further time Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con): We are now in might be necessary to consider the higher-risk groups the holiday season and a lot of people will be going and the order of priority for receiving the vaccine. We abroad, so what advice does the Secretary of State have must ensure that we strike the right balance in respect of for airlines and travellers, especially as nine youngsters health and social care workers. Of course, that must be have been diagnosed with swine flu in China? Should linked to schedules for the delivery of vaccine. The not those considering going abroad ensure that they issues are complicated and interlinked, but I commit have proper insurance: the European health insurance myself to sharing important information with the hon. card if they are going to Europe, and proper paid-for Members for South Cambridgeshire and for North insurance if they are going to other countries? Norfolk (Norman Lamb) over the summer. The hon. Lady made an important point about private Andy Burnham: The hon. Gentleman raises an important care home workers: such front-line staff must be able to point, as people will be about to travel. It is important do their job, thereby relieving pressure on the national that people take the same precautions when travelling health service. That point has been relayed to me by as they would when at home. As I have said several various people in recent weeks, and it is not lost on me. times today, it is very important that people travelling We will come to a final decision on the matter soon. The within Europe—not just one member of the family, but aim of giving vaccine to health and social care workers all family members—have the European health insurance is to ensure that essential services can operate, and that card, as that entitles people to necessary medical treatment, extra pressure is not put on already overstretched services. including for swine flu, across the European Union. I That principle will guide our approach to issuing vaccine. hope that the hon. Gentleman will encourage his constituents to ensure that they take that card on holiday. Several hon. Members rose— We recommend that if people have swine flu, they do not travel until their symptoms have stopped. We Mr. Speaker: Order. May I say to the House that, at also recommend that people check the Foreign Office 32 minutes, the statement and Front-Bench exchanges website for advice on travel to particular countries. If took considerably longer than I would have wanted or he wants more detail, I can write to him, but he is expected? I say politely to representatives of the Front correct that people will want clear information on this Bench that it is almost invariably an unalloyed joy for important matter. me to hear them, but it is better for them to leave me hearing less and wanting more, rather than hearing Mr. Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab): The Department, more and wanting less. At least 15 Back Benchers are the Secretary of State and his predecessor have handled seeking to put a question, and I want to accommodate the swine flu outbreak very sensibly. While I accept that them all, so the usual rule applies: short questions and the outbreak has had tragic consequences for a few short answers. people, it is still mild and self-limiting. Is it not incumbent on all of us, both Members of Parliament and the Frank Dobson (Holborn and St. Pancras) (Lab): Will media, to ensure that any reporting takes place on that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State give us his basis, and that people are not panicked into believing assessment of how local parts of the NHS are dealing there is something in the country that is worse than with the distribution of antiviral drugs? I would not what we have—and are controlling—at the moment? 593 Swine Flu Update20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu Update 594

Andy Burnham: I thank my right hon. Friend for his it. That is an important distinction, and I am grateful kind remarks. The Department has been well served by to my hon. Friend for giving me an opportunity to a number of Ministers, because—as my right hon. clarify it. Friend will know in his capacity as Chair of the Health Committee—it has planned for this eventuality for a David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): Further to the considerable time. question from my hon. Friend the Member for Ribble I agree with my right hon. Friend that everyone— Valley (Mr. Evans) about travelling, may I point out including Members of Parliament and any representative that the Secretary of State has said nothing about of the media who speaks on a public platform—has a information at airports and ports? Is he issuing leaflets? responsibility to deal with this in a calm and measured What about the arrangements for incoming as well as way following the advice that has been issued. Any outgoing passengers? What information will be provided, unnecessary concern out there could put extra pressure and will any health officers will be available? on the NHS front line, and I do not think that anyone Andy Burnham: We have not introduced screening at would want that. We will rise to the challenge. The NHS United Kingdom airports, but I take the hon. Gentleman’s has always been a wonderfully resilient organisation, point about information. I will follow it up, and check and it will deal with this issue, but let us not make things that good information is provided at ports of entry. I more difficult for the valuable staff who are in front-line am grateful to him for bringing the issue to my attention. positions. The FCO website states: Mrs. Iris Robinson (Strangford) (DUP): I, too, wish “Medical screening for the Swine Flu virus… has been introduced… at several airports for passengers arriving on international flights.” to express my condolences to the families of those who have died from swine flu. That includes airports in China, although obviously practice differs elsewhere. In relation to China, the What discussions have taken place about the contribution guidance states: that the Treasury will make to dealing with the swine flu “The Chinese government continues to place great emphasis pandemic, and with the burden that will fall on the on screening and surveillance, rapid detection, quarantine and devolved Governments in the United Kingdom? Does treatment.” he agree that, regardless of the statistics on people who Obviously, we know about the situation with the young are presenting with swine flu symptoms, Northern Ireland, children, which emerged over the weekend. We will Wales and Scotland should offer the same service, given provide support to them as necessary, but it is for all that we call this a national pandemic flu service? countries to deal with the outbreak as they see fit. Andy Burnham: I strongly agree with the hon. Lady’s Jeff Ennis (Barnsley, East and Mexborough) (Lab): second point. We continue to have regular discussions This global pandemic is affecting our country in our with the four health Ministers, and Michael McGimpsey summer months, and it is anticipated that the situation has been of great assistance in helping us to co-ordinate may get worse as we work towards the winter months. our response across the United Kingdom. All Ministers—in Obviously, however, many countries in the southern Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England—agree hemisphere are experiencing the pandemic during their that the right response is a UK-wide response, and that winter months. How closely are we monitoring the will continue. levels of infection in countries in the southern hemisphere, We do not yet know the full cost of the pressure that so that we can learn from the trends as we work towards the outbreak will place on services. We do not know the our winter months? full cost of the vaccination programme, because we do not yet know how long the outbreak will last. As far as Andy Burnham: My hon. Friend makes an important is possible, we must deal with that pressure within point. I can assure him that the international figures are existing budgets and resources; but any extra requests monitored. At the risk of sounding overly critical, I for funding would be dealt with in the usual way, think that our surveillance systems are better than those according to existing Treasury arrangements. in many other countries, so we must exercise some caution in directly comparing the figures from one country with the figures from another. However, we Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Highgate) (Lab): I keep a close eye on those figures. Obviously, one of the thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. I am sure things about this virus is that it is spreading here during he agrees, however, that concern has grown over the the summer months, which people would not always definition of pregnant women and the under-fives as expect. vulnerable groups. That is certainly the case in my constituency. Can he reassure my constituents that that Susan Kramer (Richmond Park) (LD): May I raise vulnerability does not mean that they are more likely again the issue of constituents travelling overseas? Can than not to contract swine flu? It is certain that in the the Secretary of State assure me that they will be able to case of pregnant women there will be no dangers to the contact the national pandemic hotline even if they are unborn child, and it is certain that the treatment for overseas, and that there will be some facility to direct the under-fives is entirely effective. them to where they should go, as language and other barriers might mean that they cannot access treatment Andy Burnham: My hon. Friend has made an important when they need it? point. Some younger people have not encountered this kind of virus before, while some older people have. Andy Burnham: I do not think that people can contact However, it is not the case that anyone is necessarily the service from overseas, but that is why I made an more at risk of developing the virus than others; it is a important distinction in my statement about people question of people’s ability to withstand it after contracting who are travelling. They should take all the necessary 595 Swine Flu Update20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu Update 596

[Andy Burnham] about people travelling abroad. A constituent of mine who was on holiday in Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt could precautions, including purchasing over-the-counter not leave the country and was incarcerated—I intend medications, heeding the advice on the Foreign Office no disrespect—in an Egyptian national health service website and considering whether they should also have, hospital, where he could not get any consular advice. if they are travelling within the European Union, a Over the next few weeks, this scenario—involving, European Union health insurance card. The hon. Lady perhaps, people who, rightly or wrongly, have not has raised an important point. I will see whether there is arranged sufficient travel insurance—is likely to escalate more we can do to provide reassurance. I would not enormously, putting enormous strain on the Foreign want us today, when we are launching a new service for and Commonwealth Office. There need to be amber Britain, to be distracted by another issue, but if I can lights flashing to the FCO and the travel and insurance provide further reassurance or a better and more detailed industries to make sure that a potentially large number answer in next 24 or 48 hours I will do that. of people are not incarcerated outside the European Union in grotty hospitals. Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): During the school term, it was easy to decide which Andy Burnham: May I say three things to my hon. schools had to close because there were outbreaks among Friend? First, before they travel people should check the children. Is the Secretary of State talking to local the arrangements for dealing with swine flu in each education authorities about what will happen in September country. Secondly, they should have appropriate insurance when the children return, because some schools might in place, should that be necessary. Thirdly, of course we not wish to reopen? will ensure with colleagues in the Foreign Office that there is appropriate consular advice and support for Andy Burnham: The decision will have to be taken anybody who finds themselves in a difficult position. locally according to advice from public health officials. Those three things are absolutely vital—and for people It is always the responsibility of the head teacher and travelling within Europe, the European health insurance chair of governors, and it would be premature to suggest card is, of course, a crucial document, and nobody that there should be widespread school closures. The should go on holiday without one. majority of schools in England have broken up for the summer or are about to do so. We hope that that will Mr. Ben Wallace (Lancaster and Wyre) (Con): The have a beneficial impact on the spread of the virus, Secretary of State said he envisaged receiving supplies although we cannot be sure about that. We keep all of the vaccinations by August and that he was prioritising these matters under discussion, and the Under-Secretary vulnerable groups and vital NHS front-line staff. I am of State for Children, Schools and Families, my hon. the husband of a wife who is seven months pregnant Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull, North and due in September, so will he tell me whether he is (Ms Johnson), regularly attends our Cobra meetings. considering putting women who are in the later stages We will update advice to schools if and when that is of pregnancy in any of those vulnerable groups? What appropriate. steps is he putting in place for hospital maternity units, because the babies of women who have recently given Dr. Richard Taylor (Wyre Forest) (Ind): Thank you, birth are particularly vulnerable? Mr. Deputy Speaker—[HON.MEMBERS: “Mr. Speaker.”] I do apologise, Mr. Speaker, for whatever I said. Despite Andy Burnham: On the latter point, hospitals have, of the Secretary of State’s welcome assurances about course, sophisticated systems for ensuring the safety of keeping hon. Members in touch, does he agree that it the ward environment. On the hon. Gentleman’s first is incomprehensible and further undermines the point, I can assure him that pregnant women are within reputation of this House that, in the face of this and the priority groups of those considered at higher risk. other crises, we break up tomorrow until 12 October, SAGE has given Ministers the conclusions on those without any inkling of a recall to scrutinise the groups. We have had our first discussion of them, but I Government’s actions? can confirm that women in pregnancy are included. As and when appropriate—and not before too long, I Andy Burnham: I think that the arrangements I have hope—we will make public who is in those groups. The put in place, and which I have explained in my statement hon. Member for Romsey (Sandra Gidley) asked that today, will give hon. Members on both sides of the we do that, and I have no problem with it. We want at House, especially the Front-Bench teams, access to the all stages to be open about the advice that we are information they need. We will issue a local hotline receiving, but we must look at the vaccination programme number, which will not be in the public domain, so that alongside the operational requirements to ensure that Members of Parliament can pursue any concerns over health care staff and social care staff are vaccinated. the summer months. It is very important that everybody These are the issues, alongside the delivery schedule for keeps this virus in perspective. Parliament needs to keep the vaccine, that we are currently balancing. it in perspective too, and if the situation changes I am sure that there will be conversations through the usual Mr. Mike Hancock (Portsmouth, South) (LD): Does channels, but at this stage it is business as usual. It is the research confirm whether people can get swine flu important, however, that we have in place systems to twice and whether antivirals and Tamiflu injections are make sure that people are properly updated over the of any benefit in preventing a second bout of swine flu? summer months. What work is being done to ensure that a vaccination for swine flu does not counter the normal vaccinations Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab): I think the that are given to so many people in this country for Secretary of State missed the point made by the hon. winter flu, and on whether those two injections have Member for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans) and others any effect on each other? 597 Swine Flu Update20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu Update 598

Andy Burnham rose— tourism Minister to ensure that such headlines are placed in context and that the message goes out that Mr. Speaker: Order. The hon. Member for Portsmouth, Britain is very much open for business? South (Mr. Hancock) slipped in three questions, but I feel sure that the Secretary of State will furnish us with Andy Burnham: I think that I just gave that message just one answer. in answer to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming). Britain is very much open for business Andy Burnham: Perhaps I will write to the hon. and, as I say, it is business as usual for the vast majority Gentleman to cover all those issues, but if he was asking of people. The Department for Culture, Media and whether people can get the vaccine or antivirals twice, I Sport has a representative who attends the Cobra civil can say that the national pandemic flu service has an contingencies committee, and I am sure that in terms of authorisation code that is meant to stop precisely that business continuity we will continue to listen carefully problem, so that the antivirals can go around to everybody. to what he or she says. As I mentioned in my statement, we are developing strong networks for business, in order Mr. Greg Hands (Hammersmith and Fulham) (Con): to give it the advice that it needs. That is being led by the May I take the Secretary of State back to a statistic he Cabinet Office and it will be useful to tourism, as well as gave us earlier orally but which does not seem to appear to other businesses. in the written version of his statement? I think he said that there are currently 652 people in hospital with Mr. Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD): I am wearing my swine flu, of whom 53 are in critical care. That seems all-party group on diabetes hat here. Will all diabetics like a rather high proportion. How does that compare have access to the vaccine, or will a distinction be drawn with other, more conventional forms of influenza, and between people with diabetes that is controlled by diet does it mean that we are not getting people to hospital and exercise and other people with diabetes? fast enough? Andy Burnham: At this stage, I do not want to give all Andy Burnham: No, I do not think that it means that the information about the vaccination programme piece at all. We can give the hon. Gentleman figures on the by piece. I gave an answer to the hon. Member for hospitalisation rate if he would find them useful. It is Lancaster and Wyre (Mr. Wallace) because there has important for me to say that we are at the early stage of been a lot of focus of women in pregnancy and giving a new virus, and although we want to give the House further information on that is justified. We will say the figures as openly as possible as we receive them, more in due course. Obviously we are purchasing enough this is a developing situation and I do not believe that vaccine to vaccinate the whole country, although not all he should read too much into them at this stage. We that vaccine will arrive in this calendar year. Thus, we have given him the figures, they are being updated are putting forward a programme of priority vaccination every week and people can make their own judgments for the autumn, about which we will say more in due on them. course.

John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): At the Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): This morning, previous statement on swine flu, the Minister had no I rang a travel insurance medical hotline to seek advice answer to the question about what is being done about about swine flu, but before I got through to someone I people getting cross-infected on a plane flying into this heard a pre-recorded message saying, “We can give you country. We have this strange situation where the no advice about swine flu.” What advice is the Secretary Government seem to have done nothing to discourage of State giving the travel insurance industry? If I go people from flying into the country, while airlines are abroad with a slight temperature would I invalidate my turning people away and preventing them from flying travel insurance were I to get swine flu? out of it with swine flu. What is the Government’s rationale for that? What threshold would there be before Andy Burnham: That is a matter for the insurers; it is they did something to discourage people from flying in not necessarily a matter for me. I have said clearly and infecting people on the plane? throughout this statement that people should carefully check the FCO website and other advice before they Andy Burnham: I do not know whether the hon. travel, and they should not travel if they have symptoms. Gentleman thinks that we should stop incoming flights— That advice is clear and if the hon. Gentleman has a perhaps he does. From the beginning, the advice from query about his insurance policy, he should raise it with the World Health Organisation was that, given what we his insurer. knew about this virus, it would not be justifiable to place restrictions on international travel. That was the Mr. Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con): The Secretary clear position at the start and I have not seen any WHO of State is correct to say that swine flu is important and advice to change it. Obviously we pay close attention to serious, but we must keep a sense of perspective, because what the WHO says at all times. the truth is that over the next six to 12 months many more of our constituents will develop cancer and heart Mr. Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth, East) (Con): There disease and die from those illnesses. Will he join me in has been a lot of talk about the FCO website and urging the media to report the illness of swine flu tourism abroad, but I am interested in what is happening responsibly, thereby avoiding mass hysteria? to tourism in Britain. We are very much open for business, yet we see headlines such as today’s “Holidaymakers Andy Burnham: It is important to acknowledge—as face travel ban as swine flu sweeps country”. What the hon. Gentleman did—that accurate, balanced and conversations has the Secretary of State had with the calm reporting of this virus is necessary. If that tone is 599 Swine Flu Update 20 JULY 2009 600

[Andy Burnham] Parker Pen Factory, Newhaven Application for emergency debate (Standing Order not struck, it puts pressure on the NHS and limits its No. 24) ability to cope with the daily pressures, which continue, as the hon. Gentleman rightly says. The launch of the 4.31 pm national pandemic flu service will take pressure off the Norman Baker (Lewes) (LD): I rise to propose that health service by creating an alternative route for access the House should debate the matter of the decision to to medication, and that will go a long way to helping to close the Parker Pen Factory, Newhaven. relieve pressure on the front line. We all have a responsibility to face up to the challenges as they come up, to deal This is a specific and important matter that should be with them as best we can, and to explain them as calmly given urgent consideration. The decision to close the and concisely as we can, which will help the whole factory, taken by the American parent company, Newell country get through this challenge. Rubbermaid, will result in the loss of 180 jobs. This will have a terrible effect on the population of Newhaven, In conclusion, may I say that the NHS will get which is already suffering far more from the effects of through this challenge, because it is wonderfully resilient? the recession than other nearby towns such as Lewes. It has faced many challenges before and will face this There has been a pen factory in Newhaven since 1921 one in the same way. and it has been Parker since 1945. Indeed, Parker Pen is the flagship employer in Newhaven, but the keystone of the bridge is now being removed. The factory was visited by Mrs. Thatcher when she was Prime Minister, and it has a loyal work force in Newhaven, which has done its best to support Parker Pen over the years. There is a suspicion that the factory is being closed because the much stricter French employment laws make it more difficult to close the factory in Nantes—to which the jobs are being transferred. In other words, the employment laws in this country, which are supposed to encourage employment, will have the opposite effect on this occasion. Whether you allow a debate or not, Mr. Speaker, I ask Ministers on the Treasury Bench to note the need for an urgent support package for Newhaven, which has suffered grossly from the recession, with a significant unemployment problem and the town centre being in a poor way. The support—or even rescue—package for the town should be put in place through the South East England Development Agency, with Ministers from the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, and help from Jobcentre Plus to deal with the 180 employees who will, sadly, lose their jobs. I ask Ministers to work with me for the benefit of my constituents. I thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the opportunity to make this case for my constituents. Mr. Speaker: I have listened carefully to what the hon. Gentleman has said, and I have to give my decision without stating any reasons. I am afraid that I do not consider that the matter that he has raised is appropriate for discussion under Standing Order No. 24, and I cannot therefore submit the application to the House. 601 20 JULY 2009 Points of Order 602

Points of Order Mr. Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order, which was put to me and the House in the characteristically blunt terms that the House has 4.33 pm come to appreciate. I know that the hon. Gentleman Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): On a point would not seek to inveigle me into an argument between of order, Mr. Speaker. I wish to raise a point of order him and the Prime Minister, but what I would say to that may sound trivial, but is a matter of serious him is that who answers a question that the hon. Gentleman disappointment for young people in my constituency. or any other hon. or right hon. Member poses is a For the last four years in the run-up to Christmas, matter for the head of the Department or, in this case, choirs from my constituency have entertained for the Prime Minister. Similarly, the content of such parliamentarians, staff and other members of the Palace answers is a matter for Ministers and I cannot get authorities over lunch. Last week, out of the blue, an into that. e-mail arrived at my office saying that this would be What I can say to the hon. Gentleman is that the banned in the future, as it was inconveniencing Members exhortation I issued to all Ministers to ensure that of the House during their lunch. Were you aware of substantive replies were provided before the summer that, Mr. Speaker? Surely we should be encouraging recess was an exhortation that extended to the Prime young people to come to this House, not barring them. Minister as well, because he, of course, is a Minister. Moreover, I think I can gently say to the hon. Gentleman, Mr. Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for who is an extremely experienced Member of the House, the point of order that he has raised. I confess that I was that he might feel tempted to try to give voice to some not previously conscious of it, as will probably be of these concerns in a little more detail in the Adjournment apparent to him and the House by the rather measured debate that will take place immediately prior to the terms of my response. Suffice it to say that, on the face summer recess tomorrow. of it, he and his constituents have reason to be disconcerted, and I will certainly look into the matter. I am happy to revert to the hon. Gentleman when I have done so. BILL PRESENTED

Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab): On a point of CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM AND GOVERNANCE BILL order, Mr. Speaker. Yourecently made it clear to Ministers that you expect substantive replies to parliamentary Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) questions before the summer recess, which is a little Mr. Secretary Straw, supported by the Prime Minister, more than 24 hours off. May I draw this to your Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Secretary David attention and seek your support? Frankly, the biggest Miliband, Secretary Alan Johnson, Tessa Jowell and offender, in my view, is the Prime Minister himself. To Michael Wills, presented a Bill to make provision relating buttress my argument, and to illustrate the point, I to the civil service of the State; to make provision point out that I asked a question of the Prime Minister relating to the ratification of treaties; to amend section 2 about his meeting with President Gaddafi, at the margins of the House of Lords Act 1999 and make provision of a recent summit, in relation to matters raised by the relating to the removal, suspension and resignation of hon. Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Dodds) and me members of the House of Lords; to repeal sections 132 about compensation for the victims of IRA Semtex to 138 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police whose provenance was Libya. The Prime Minister sent Act 2005 and to amend Part 2 of the Public Order Act me a letter saying that was referred to the Foreign and 1986; to make provision relating to time limits for Commonwealth Office, but the only person who could human rights claims against devolved administrations; answer my question was the Prime Minister himself—not to make provision relating to judges and similar office even the Foreign Secretary. I also asked about the per holders; to make provision relating to the Comptroller diem remuneration for members of Chilcot, and the and Auditor General and to establish a body corporate Prime Minister said that was a matter for Chilcot. He called the National Audit Office; to amend the Government refuses to answer a simple question. Resources and Accounts Act 2000 and to make Mr. Speaker, will you, first, ensure that there are corresponding provision in relation to Wales. substantive replies from all Ministers by tomorrow and, Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time secondly, look at the Prime Minister, who dodges the tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 142) with explanatory question time and again? I am certainly not prepared to notes (Bill 142-EN). put up with that. 603 20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 604

Child Poverty Bill Mr. Gary Streeter (South-West Devon) (Con): The right hon. Lady talks about the values that underpin the [Relevant Documents: The transcript of oral evidence Bill, and I certainly welcome those. Clause 8(5) lists a taken before the Work and Pensions Committee on 17 June number of things that have to be taken into account in 2009 on Child Poverty, HC 702; Second Report of the assessing and measuring progress once the Bill becomes Work and Pensions Committee, Session 2007-08, HC 42-I, law, including considerations relating to skills, employment on The best start in life? Alleviating deprivation, improving and housing. Why is there nothing about the stability of social mobility and eradicating child poverty; and the the family environment? Surely that is one of the most Government response, Second Special Report of the important things for any child, is it not? Why is the Bill Committee, Session 2007-08, HC 580.] silent on that? Second Reading Yvette Cooper: It is right that we support families, and we should support families of all kinds, whatever 4.37 pm their circumstances. That includes helping them to have The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Yvette stability in their lives—stability for children as they Cooper): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a grow. It is also right that we recognise what the Government Second time. can do and where the Government can take action to support families. That is why there is also a serious I hope that the Bill will have support from all parts of vision of equality embedded in the Bill. Labour’s child the House. I believe it is one of the most radical Bills we poverty targets have never just been about poverty; they have debated in this Parliament. It sets out a vision of a have always been about narrowing the unfair inequalities fairer society that is bold and ambitious—a vision of that can haunt children throughout their lives. equality and opportunity for our children that goes further than any other European country currently Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): I achieves. It entrenches that vision in our legislation for entirely support the right hon. Lady’s contention, but I the long term. am puzzled because the Government’s position on this We know that no law alone can end child poverty, but Bill, which sets out targets and makes it a duty on the the Bill will help to hold the Government’s feet to the Secretary of State to meet them, is different from the flames in pursuit of a fairer Britain. It will demand of one they adopted on my Fuel Poverty Bill, in which I set Governments, now and in the future, determined action out targets and placed a duty on the Secretary of State to cut child poverty and to stop children being left to meet them. I was told: behind. Those are bold ambitions, but they are the right “That is an absolutist position, and it cannot be acceptable to ambitions. any Government.”—[Official Report, 20 March 2009; Vol. 489, The Bill does more than simply set out targets; it c. 1199.] embeds a set of values in our primary legislation. For a I was told that it would be opposed at all costs. Have start, it is the chance for Parliament to make it clear that Ministers changed their minds about the appropriateness children in the 21st century should not grow up suffering of such a step? deprivation, and that they should not grow up lacking the necessities that most of us take for granted, and Yvette Cooper: The hon. Gentleman is right in that it which allow them to participate fully in society—things is indeed a radical thing for us to set Secretaries of State such as keeping the house warm, being able to go on a a duty to meet targets to cut child poverty and to week’s holiday or being able to afford a bike to get out abolish it by 2020, as set out in the Bill. We considered and about with friends. We are setting a clear target to long and hard how best to embody the targets and the cut the number of children growing up in low-income duty in the legislation because we think that ending and material deprivation. child poverty is serious and will have an impact throughout the country. Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Why then Concerns about fuel poverty are reflected in the have inequalities of income grown over the past 12 years? assessment of material deprivation, so we take the issue What will the Government do now to make that different very seriously. The hon. Gentleman will realise that, for in their final year in office? example, there are families who are concerned about being able to pay their fuel bills this winter, which has Yvette Cooper: As the right hon. Gentleman will an impact on their children. We have taken an overarching know, the figure on child poverty has in fact dropped approach to child poverty which looks at a series of over the past 12 years, in contrast to its having doubled separate targets because this is about opportunities for over the previous 12 years. He will know too that our every child for many generations to come. measure of child poverty is a relative poverty measure—it We believe that every child should get a fair start in is an inequality measure. It is one of the most important life, and every child should have the chance to get on, to things the Government have done to stop the inexorable develop their potential and to chase their dreams. We rise in child poverty that his party and the Government believe in equality of opportunity for children as they of whom he was part presided over, and indeed encouraged grow, but we can make those opportunities real only if when they chose to freeze child benefit three years in a we also tackle the poverty and inequality that holds row, so that, shockingly, in 1997 the level of child children back today. We know that children from low- benefit was lower in real terms than it was in 1979. That income families do less well at school. We know that is why it is so important that we have taken action to cut children on free school meals are only half as likely as the number of children in poverty by half a million, the rest of their class mates to get five good GCSEs. We with other measures in place to reduce it further. know that being left behind can be about missing out on 605 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 606 educational school trips or music lessons, or not being pensioners. That is why we are saying now that the able to get on the internet at home to research homework. target to end child poverty in a generation is sufficiently It can mean cases such as those in the Barnardo’s report important to embed it in legislation and make clear out today of the 14-year-old boy Jelani who got nothing progress on it in future years. at all for his birthday—except for £10 from a friend that We have seen significant changes over the past 12 years. he gave to his mother to help towards the cost of his When we started in 1997, child poverty had been rising school uniform. Children get left behind for years to for 18 years. In fact, child poverty doubled between come if their family get left behind today. 1979 and 1997.

John Howell (Henley) (Con): Given the case that the John Battle (Leeds, West) (Lab): I welcome the Bill, right hon. Lady started to make—that there are many which I think will prove to be a significant milestone in factors involved in deprivation—can she tell us why the tackling poverty in our country. I particularly welcome targets that she has chosen are simply income-based? the provisions on local government. In order to meet Surely they should be broader. the targets, can we encourage and support local government in all parts of the country to make rooting out poverty a Yvette Cooper: In fact, as I have just explained, the top priority? material deprivation target looks more broadly at the kinds of material circumstances in which families can Yvette Cooper: My right hon. Friend is right to find themselves. However, we have been clear that it is suggest that local government often has considerable right to look at the relative poverty target because of ability to make a genuine difference in local communities, the impact that that has on other aspects of children’s tackling the estates with the highest levels of child lives, and for all their lives. poverty, helping parents into work or tackling problems We also know that if we are concerned to increase that children in certain communities can face. That is family income, often the best way of doing so is by why we have set out duties on local government in the looking at how to get more parents into work and Bill, including the duty to work with other agencies, increase their skills and employability, so that they can such as the local police, the local health service and get better-paid jobs in future. However, we also know other organisations across the community. Tackling that family income can have a significant impact on child poverty cannot be about just national Government; children’s chances throughout their lives. It is simply it cannot be about just local government. unfair that some children should fall so far behind The number of children in absolute poverty has others and lose their chance to get on in life and halved since 1997 and the number in relative poverty properly fulfil their potential because of their family has dropped by 500,000. We expect the measures that circumstances in early childhood. were recently introduced, including increases in the Our main child poverty target has always been a child tax credit, to lift a further 500,000 out of relative relative poverty target and it must stay so. It means that poverty. More than 600,000 more lone parents are in as society becomes more prosperous, all our children work, while the minimum wage has helped to tackle must share in that prosperity. As the incomes of better-off poverty pay. Some 3,000 Sure Start children’s centres families grow, the poorest families must not get left are helping 2.4 million young children and their families, further behind, because if they do their children will fall while £20 billion of support for families is being provided further behind—and not just today, but potentially for through the tax credit system—measure after measure decades to come. sadly opposed by the Conservatives. Yet if we had not The Bill goes further, because for the first time we are done that—if we had followed the Conservative approach highlighting the importance of tackling persistent poverty. and simply uprated the tax and benefit system by inflation That, after all, is where the greatest harm for children each year since 1997—2.1 million more children would lies. In the end, no Government action can prevent be in poverty today. everything that goes wrong in families or causes problems for the children. However, we can work to help to get John Mason (Glasgow, East) (SNP): The Minister people the support that they need as soon as possible, mentions the minimum wage and relative income, on so that the family is not trapped in poverty for years at which I completely agree with her. However, is there a time. also a place for absolute figures? Does the minimum wage perhaps need to be higher, or do we need some Steve Webb (Northavon) (LD): It is clearly an evil for kind of minimum income standard? a child to be persistently poor. Likewise, it is an evil for a pensioner to be persistently poor, year in, year out. Yvette Cooper: The hon. Gentleman will know that We welcome the Bill but, having legislated to eliminate we take advice from the Low Pay Commission on the child poverty, does the Secretary of State have a time level at which the minimum wage should be set. We have scale in mind to legislate to eliminate pensioner poverty, also introduced tax credits, including the working tax or is that a second-order priority? credit and the child tax credit, to provide additional income for families. That has made a substantial difference Yvette Cooper: The hon. Gentleman will know that of thousands of pounds a year to many families, without we have made substantial progress in cutting pensioner which many more would be in poverty today: it is poverty, lifting pensioners out of poverty through measures transforming families’ lives. such as the winter fuel allowance and the pension credit However, this is not enough—we need to go much in particular, which has provided substantial support further. We need to be even more ambitious in future. for pensioners. Therefore, the chances of being in poverty We know that achieving these targets will not be easy. are now much higher for children than they are for The very fact of setting a relative target means that as 607 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 608

[Yvette Cooper] £5 billion additional investment in helping people who are losing their jobs today—shame on them. Once the economy grows and society becomes more prosperous, again, they are refusing to support people, and that will we have to work even harder to make sure that no one put more families into poverty in the future. Once gets left behind. We know, too, that the challenge facing again, they cannot accept that it was their failure to act us is even more difficult in our current economic in the early ’80s and early ’90s—a failure that they circumstances, but it is also even more important that intend to repeat—that has left so many children in we succeed. Over the past 18 months, we have continued unemployed households now. to set out new measures to tackle child poverty, even in tougher times, including increasing tax credits, expanding Mr. Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con) rose— child care, and increasing support for parents to get back into work. Everyone knows that it will be difficult Yvette Cooper: The hon. Gentleman is keen to intervene to meet our target of halving child poverty by next year, from the Back Benches. I will give way to him in the but we believe that it is right to keep working towards it hope that he will go further than his Front Benchers are and to make as much progress as we can, even in more prepared to and say that he is ready to support the difficult times. £5 billion investment to help people back into work The recession makes action on child poverty even today. more important. The action that we take now is critical to preventing child poverty not just today but for many Mr. Walker: I just want to get back to serious politics years to come. It was the failure of Tory Governments for a moment, if the Secretary of State will allow me. to help people through the recessions of the 1980s and She claims to care about the welfare of children, so why 1990s that led to the big increases in child poverty at is it that over the past 10 years child obesity rates have that time. Too many parents in the ’80s and ’90s lost rocketed under her Government? their jobs and were abandoned, left in long-term unemployment or pushed on to other long-term benefits Yvette Cooper: I have to say to the hon. Gentleman to fiddle the figures, with devastating consequences for that there is nothing more serious than helping parents them and for their families. Parents, and young people back into work right now or tackling the rising who were soon to become parents, not only fell out of unemployment that we have seen in every country in work but fell out of the labour market altogether, the world— making it harder for them to get back on their feet when the upturn came. The cost of that Conservative neglect Mr. Walker: Answer the question. was felt not just among the parents but among their children who are themselves parents today. Yvette Cooper: The hon. Gentleman might not think that is serious—he might not think the need to tackle The Tories are sometimes accused of abandoning a child poverty is serious—but he should be ashamed of generation: the truth is they abandoned several generations. his party’s refusal to support—[Interruption.] [Interruption.] Conservative Members do not want to hear about the consequences of their inaction and their Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): Order. This abandonment of young people and future parents in is a very serious matter. previous recessions on generations in terms of child poverty today. Mr. Walker: And it is a disgraceful performance—

Mrs. Theresa May (Maidenhead) (Con): The Secretary Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman of State is making a great claim that the Government asked a question. have done so much over the past 12 years. Why, then, have we just seen a record rise in unemployment, why is Mr. Walker: And I have not had an answer— youth unemployment higher than when this Government came into office, and why has child poverty been rising Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman for the past few years? may not like the answer he gets, but he must not keep chuntering from a sedentary position. Otherwise, he ought Yvette Cooper: The right hon. Lady is opposing all perhaps to be asked to leave the debate if he cannot the action that we are taking to help people who are control himself. It does not help the debate at all. unemployed. We are facing the first worldwide recession since the second world war; right across every country Yvette Cooper: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I in the world job losses are increasing and unemployment agree with the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr. Walker) is rising. The difference between my party and hers is that we need to do more to support children who have that we believe we should not turn our backs on people. health problems, including obesity, but we also have to We believe that we should invest in people’s futures and help those children out of poverty. If his party will not help them to get back to work. Her party has repeatedly face up to the fact that parents who lose their jobs are refused to support the £5 billion extra investment to far more likely still to be in poverty in years to come if help the unemployed back to work. I will give way to they do not get help to get back into work now, he is any Conservative Front Bencher who can tell me now blind to the serious problems of child poverty across that they will support the £5 billion additional investment this country. to help young people to get back into work. [Interruption.] Hon. Members chatter from the Front Bench, but none Mr. Redwood: Why can the Secretary of State not of them has the confidence or the guts to stand up at answer my question on income differentials, the shadow that Dispatch Box and tell us that they will support the Secretary of State’s question on child poverty, and the 609 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 610 question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for its impact. It is important to help parents back into Broxbourne (Mr. Walker) on obesity? Why does she work because we know that long-term unemployment always have to play crude and idiotic politics instead of causes long-term child poverty, which we experienced in dealing with the things that really matter to our constituents? previous generations. That is why helping parents back into work was such an important part of the Budget Yvette Cooper: Not only is that not a question, but measures that we announced earlier this year. the right hon. Gentleman still has not said whether his party is prepared to support the action and investment Mrs. Joan Humble (Blackpool, North and Fleetwood) to do something about child poverty. We have seen—the (Lab): Earlier the Secretary of State referred to the key figures show this—that 500,000 children have been lifted role of Sure Start children’s centres. Surely by doing out of poverty as a result of the action that the Government more through our Sure Start children’s centres, we can have taken. If we had simply followed the policies of the provide information and advice to parents about health previous Government—his Government—child poverty and nutrition so that we reduce childhood obesity. We would be 2.1 million higher than it is today. can also build up parents’ self-esteem and provide training so that they are in a better position to get into work and Mr. Philip Hammond (Runnymede and Weybridge) lift their children out of poverty. (Con): It is not sustainable. Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend is right. The Sure Yvette Cooper: The shadow Chief Secretary to the Start programme is hugely important in providing Treasury sits there on the Front Bench and says it is not opportunities for young people and support for their sustainable, we cannot invest, we cannot do anything, families. It can help parents in a child’s early years, we cannot do this, we cannot do that—we cannot afford which can be a vulnerable time for families, when they not to bring child poverty down. We cannot afford not want and need more support. Sure Start has proved to to bring unemployment down. He might think that we be an excellent way to provide that support. That is why should not invest £5 billion in helping the unemployed, it is not enough simply to back the Bill—one also has to but we think that if we do not invest in supporting back the means to deliver it. That includes the Sure the unemployed to get back into work, unemployment Start scheme and not cutting it, as Conservative Members will stay higher for longer. That will push up debt for would do. If they are serious about supporting the Bill, longer, too. I challenge them to say that they support the £5 billion investment to help the unemployed and the £1 billion for the future jobs fund to guarantee young people a job John Barrett (Edinburgh, West) (LD): Does the Secretary rather than leaving them in long-term unemployment. I of State agree that one way of getting more people out challenge them to guarantee now that they will not cut of poverty would be to ensure that means-tested benefits the Sure Start programme, which provides so much were given out, including to those in work? The DWP support for young people throughout the country and admits that £10 billion of unclaimed benefits are waiting helps to tackle child poverty, too. to be used. That would be one way of reducing the numbers of those in poverty. Conservative Members say that they care about child poverty, but they cannot will the ends and cut the Yvette Cooper: We have to do everything that we can means. The Labour Government are serious about cutting to increase the take-up of benefits. The hon. Gentleman child poverty and the Bill sets out our determination to is right—more can be done, particularly with things go further. We are determined to help more parents into such as housing benefit and council tax benefit. As part work and to get the skills and training they need for of the reforms to housing benefit, we have been considering well-paid jobs to support children and families as they what more we can do to help those who are in work and grow, while also ensuring that work is family friendly so who may be entitled to housing benefit. It may also help that parents can combine employment and parental to make it pay for people to go back into work. responsibilities. Today, we are announcing more support to help Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): Although I parents hit by the global credit crunch. We know that think that the whole House will support the stated aims parents are still losing jobs because of the worldwide of the Bill, does the Secretary of State not recognise recession, but often second earners do not go to the that behind the rhetoric the stark statistics show that jobcentre for help if their partner is still in work. Yet 200,000 more children are now in child poverty than in that extra cash from their part-time or full-time jobs 2004? The Institute for Fiscal Studies suggests that the could be vital to help to pay the mortgage or keep the Government’s policies will lead to the target for 2010-11 family out of poverty. Indeed, more than 100,000 children being missed by 600,000. On that basis, although the could be lifted out of poverty if more second earners Minister claims that the Government are concerned worked part time or full time as the children get older. about child poverty the facts show something totally That is why we must do more to help second earners different. who are affected by the recession, and why we are announcing today a further £10 million to help working Yvette Cooper: The hon. Gentleman knows that the mothers who are affected by the recession and help current statistics do not yet include figures for operating more parents into work. Those funds will be targeted at the child element of child tax credit in April 2008, the 25 local authority areas to help to set up job clubs in child maintenance disregard for out-of-work benefits in schools to advise parents on getting access to training, October 2008, the increase in child benefit in 2009 and a finding work or setting up small businesses. series of other measures that have still to feed through. Tackling child poverty is also about acting across the However, I agree with him that it is difficult to make board to ensure that children do not get left behind: progress, given the worldwide global credit crunch and from one-to-one tuition to free fruit for primary school 611 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 612

[Yvette Cooper] failed to meet their child poverty target. Not only that, but they have now downgraded their child poverty children; from the work of neighbourhood police with target for 2010, as is reflected in the Bill. The Government troubled teenagers to the decent homes programme to are going to miss not only that target but their 2020 put central heating into family homes. Tackling child target, which illustrates the fact that setting targets is poverty is everyone’s business and that is why the Bill is not what makes a difference. so important. As I indicated earlier in my intervention on the The measure requires the Government to work with Secretary of State, to which there was no reply, things the devolved Administrations, local councils, the police, are moving in the wrong direction, because child poverty the NHS and organisations throughout the country to is now rising. Since 2004-05, it has risen by 400,000 tackle child poverty in each and every community. It after housing costs, meaning that there are 4 million requires every area to set out its own local strategy to children still living in poverty in the UK. The number of tackle child poverty, as well as the Government to set children falling below thresholds of low income and out the national strategy. It establishes a commission of material deprivation rose by 200,000 in the last year for experts to advise us and help drive us forward. It will which figures are available. In fact, incomes for the force Governments to come back to Parliament time poorest 20 per cent. of families fell in the past year, and and again to demonstrate the progress being made. It have fallen in every year since 2004. All that means that ultimately means that the Government will be at risk of across a range of indicators, income inequality is rising. action in the courts if they fail. We are considering a bold Bill, which sets out a Steve Webb: Will the right hon. Lady give way? radical vision of a fairer society, and a Labour vision of a fairer society. Whereas the Tories doubled child poverty, Mrs. May: I give way to the hon. Gentleman. we are determined to end it. Whereas we want to cut child poverty, they want to cut children’s services. Whereas Mr. Deputy Speaker: I call Ed Davey. we want to help today’s parents, they want to cut the help they need to get back to work. Our priority is to Steve Webb: It is Steve Webb, but if I say something tackle the inequality that prevents our children from stupid it is Ed Davey. [Laughter.] No, I take that back. getting a fair chance in life, and theirs is to widen The shadow Secretary of State commits herself to the inequality by cutting inheritance tax for millionaires. I aspirations of the Bill, which I welcome. She will have urge the whole House to back this Bill and to back the read the regulatory impact assessment, which costs long-term measures that are needed to make it a reality. achieving the Bill’s goal at about £21 billion a year. I commend the Bill to the House. Does she have any views on where that money might come from? 5.5 pm Mrs. May: The hon. Gentleman will know as well as Mrs. Theresa May (Maidenhead) (Con): Eradicating I do that one omission from the Bill, and from the child poverty is an ambitious but important aspiration Secretary of State’s speech, is any recognition of the for any Government of this country. Not only is it an difficulty for any Government of finding the money to economic imperative, as no advanced economy can meet the figures in the regulatory impact assessment. afford to waste the potential of so many of its citizens; One issue that I shall mention is how we should be more importantly it is a moral imperative, as no decent addressing child poverty in this country, which is not society should allow children to grow up in poverty. just a matter of money. There are many other aspects Let us be clear that poverty exists in 21st century that affect child poverty in this country, and I shall deal Britain, and for some communities it is the norm and with some of them in my speech. not the exception. That situation is shameful and destructive. I return to the fact that the Government are missing Some 10 years ago, the Government made a commitment their targets. That is a tragic failure and a damning to eradicate child poverty by 2020. We can disagree indictment of 12 years of Labour government. The Bill about the approach that has been taken and the lack of represents one of the last acts of a tired Government. progress that has been made, but we should all recognise the importance of setting out that ambition. Ms Karen Buck (Regent’s Park and Kensington, North) I reiterate the Conservative party’s support for ending (Lab): Will the right hon. Lady give way? child poverty, and I remind hon. Members of the words of my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition. Mrs. May: No, not at this stage. He stated last year: The Bill ties a future Government to the targets that “I want…the government I aspire to lead to be judged on how the current Government have failed to achieve. The we tackle poverty in office. Because poverty is not acceptable in Secretary of State may believe that that is clever party our country today.” politics, but I say to her that such cynical positioning is Mr. Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): Can we be clear undignified and belittles the important issues that the about this? Is the commitment of the right hon. Lady’s Bill should raise. It also sets this whole debate in the party an actual commitment or simply an aspiration? realm of the unrealistic; we are all aware of the tremendous pressures on the public finances, yet Ministers seem to Mrs. May: If the hon. Gentleman listens to my have given only a perfunctory nod to such considerations words, he will find out exactly what our position on this when drafting the Bill. particular issue is. I suggest that he should perhaps take It is important to remember that poverty is not only up the difference between an aspiration and a commitment about economics. In too many parts of our country, we with his party’s Front Benchers, who have singularly see not just poverty of income, but poverty of opportunity, 613 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 614 aspiration and environment. A child who grows up means in practice, and how much discretion local authorities without the opportunities of good education, health will have. Surely Government should trust local bodies care or housing is also a child growing up in poverty. to know what is best for their communities. We would Those lost opportunities may relate to things that many like to see recognition in the Bill of the valuable work of us in this Chamber took for granted when we were done by charities and other community groups—by growing up—going on school trips, making visits to those who are working on the ground in the most museums or swimming pools, taking a holiday, whether hard-pressed areas of the country. They often achieve in the UK or abroad—but for too many British children, very good results for the people whom they are helping— those are experiences that they will never enjoy. often, I am afraid, in the face of what Government do When we talk about child poverty, we are also talking to them, rather than alongside Government. Those about family poverty. Children are poor because their bodies are central to tackling poverty in the UK, and parents are poor. In fact, I would almost like to change the Government should be doing all that they can to the name of the Bill from the Child Poverty Bill to the make their life easier. child and family poverty Bill. That would help us to It is not good enough simply to place more obligations remember that tackling poverty can never be a matter on local authorities without them having the resources simply for children’s services. Instead, we must adopt a to act, so we will look to ensure that the Bill does not co-ordinated approach that understands the complex simply place more bureaucratic burdens on local authorities roots of deprivation. without giving them the freedom to innovate and act in accordance with local needs. They need the flexibility to Ms Sally Keeble (Northampton, North) (Lab): The work with whatever organisation it is necessary to work right hon. Lady makes an important point about the with to tackle poverty in their area. We do not want to wider aspects of poverty, but would she not accept see them attempting to fulfil their responsibilities simply that clause 8, on strategies, deals with the very point by appointing a child poverty officer or creating a new that she is making? That is why I think that the Bill department and leaving them alone to get on with the is much more than just mechanistic target-setting on job. Co-ordinating action will be important at local income levels. authority level. Many councils will already be doing good work in this area, but bringing that work together Mrs. May: I will come on to a very important issue with a clear focus on child and family poverty is what that I believe lies behind child and family poverty, but is will make a difference. not referred to in that clause, as my hon. Friend the Member for South-West Devon (Mr. Streeter) pointed John Mason: I agree with the shadow Secretary of out. There are some interesting Government recognitions, State about not merely giving the voluntary sector and not in the Bill but in the regulatory impact assessment local authorities more responsibilities. She mentioned and the explanatory notes—I shall mention them later— resources, however, and I wonder whether she and her which suggest that they are at last, after 12 years, party will commit to giving extra resources to the beginning to realise that there is more to the issue than voluntary sector and to local authorities to carry out finance. these duties.

Mr. Redwood: Does my right hon. Friend agree that if Mrs. May: One of the most important things that we Ministers are serious about tackling the issue, they can do for the voluntary sector is free it up to get on should do it, and lead on it? We do not need another with the job that it wants to do. It often finds itself hard useless quango—the child poverty commission—set up pressed by Government diktats—[Interruption.] It is at enormous expense, burdening taxpayers and getting all very well Labour Members laughing. They should in the way. look at the state of the public finances, which have been presided over by the Prime Minister, when he was Mrs. May: My right hon. Friend refers to the issue of Chancellor as well as now. The fact that we have horrendous quangos. All I would say to him is that, of course, the debt in this country has nothing to do with the Opposition; next Conservative Government will look to ensure that it is the fault of the Government and the way in which the number of quangos is significantly reduced, so that they have managed the public finances and the economy taxpayers’ money is not wasted on bureaucratic bodies in this country. that achieve no aims. As it happens, I was about to reflect on the fact that There are aspects of the Bill that we support. We the Government have enshrined in the Bill the principle welcome the emphasis on local issues and action, because of taking economic and fiscal circumstances into account. poverty will never be defeated by grand strategies dreamt I recognise the point made by Action for Children: up by a Minister in Whitehall. It will take determined tackling child poverty effectively would have a long-term work by local government, in partnership with other benefit for the fiscal position. Taking that big-picture agencies and, crucially, the voluntary sector. We do not approach will be more successful than working in silos feel that centrally issued diktats will result in the best and ignoring other pressures on the Government and help for the people who really need it. That is why in on society. Committee we will press the Government for more However, there are aspects of the Bill about which I detail on how the proposals would work in practice, and have significant concerns, on which we shall press the on how onerous the duty on local authorities will be. Government in Committee. My right hon. Friend the We have concerns about the emphasis on partner Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood) mentioned authorities for local councils—the police, strategic health quangos. The creation of a commission on child poverty authorities, transport bodies and so on. Again, we will could be a useful step towards holding the Government need to be absolutely clear about what that emphasis of the day to account, but we must avoid its becoming 615 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 616

[Mrs. May] Government to continue to shut job centres at an average rate of one a week while unemployment was another ineffective quango whose purpose is long forgotten. already rising. The public will be reluctant to support the creation of Let me deal with the areas I have just set out. First, another committee that costs taxpayers’ money, without Britain has one of the highest rates of family breakdown clear transparency of purpose. I am also concerned in Europe. There is widespread evidence showing the about some obvious omissions from the Bill. It contains impact that family breakdown can have on a child’s little on worklessness, in-work poverty or child care, all outcomes in life. We know, for example, that children of which I will return to later. Housing and health care who experience family breakdown are 75 per cent. more are also notable absentees. likely to suffer from failed education; 70 per cent. more My main criticism, however, is a simple one: I do not likely to experience problem drug use; and 35 per cent. believe that simply legislating to end child poverty will more likely to experience unemployment or welfare make that happen. Reaching for the statute book has dependency. Those shocking figures surely provide all been this Government’s modus operandi since they the evidence we need to accept that family breakdown is were elected, and we have precious little to show for all one of the most serious challenges we face. the laws and regulations that they have passed. All the evidence has shown that, instead of a target approach, We will never get to the heart of the problems we we need a targeted approach that commits to addressing face—from crime to debt, from drug addiction to the root causes of poverty. The Bill does not do that entrenched poverty—if we fail to support the best institution nearly as robustly or comprehensively as it could have our society has, namely the family. It is central to done. Perhaps the Minister will tell the House whether ensuring the well-being of children; there is no more the Government, in taking a legislative approach, intend important way to strengthen our society than to strengthen to involve the courts in enforcing the Bill’s provisions. our families, so we must recognise that family breakdown These are issues that will need to be probed further in is a route into poverty for many children. Committee. I am pleased that the Government have now accepted The Government’s approach to tackling child poverty that, although I am disappointed that that recognition over the past 12 years provided some initial success, but, is again hidden away in the notes accompanying the overall, it has been a failure. Their one-dimensional Bill. The regulatory impact assessment contains these approach, which relies on means-tested benefits only, important two sentences: is unsustainable and will not result in the progress that “Poverty may cause more family stress and therefore cause we all want. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation has family breakdown. However, conversely, family breakdown may said that have caused the family to fall into poverty.” “the strategy against poverty and social exclusion pursued since As far as I am aware, this is the first time that the the late 1990s is now largely exhausted”. Government have acknowledged that link, and it is a Indeed, the Government now appear to recognise that tribute to the work of my right hon. Friend the Member themselves. Hidden away in the explanatory notes to the for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr. Duncan Smith) Bill is perhaps the most significant statement that the and others who have campaigned for so long on this Government have made on this topic for many years: issue. “The legislation has the effect of requiring Ministers to consider The Government must now follow the logic of their a wide range of interventions through public services and the own statement and support families in a way that they contribution of broader policy areas. The Government believes this to be a more cost-effective and sustainable route than increasing have failed to do over the last 12 years. That means, for tax credits and benefits”. example, ending the couple penalty that has done so much to undermine families and harm children. It is That will be news to many Members present today extraordinary that our tax system actually punishes across the House. I warmly welcome this U-turn, which couples that choose to live together. We are in the reverses almost everything that the Prime Minister has ridiculous situation where the state appears to encourage told us over the past 12 years. couples to pretend to live apart because they would lose We have long argued that we must take a wide-ranging out on benefits if it were known that they lived together. approach to tackling poverty. The approach must focus What sort of message does that send to families? That on the root causes of poverty, including family breakdown, must play a part in the fact that 60 per cent. of children worklessness, educational failure and others. No target in poverty live in couple families, and it is a component will be met, no strategy will be effective and no commission of high levels of in-work poverty. will be worth while without that recognition. We have set out proposals to end the couple penalty by increasing the working tax credit for couples, helping Yvette Cooper: If the right hon. Lady recognises that 1.8 million of the poorest couples and in doing so lifting worklessness is an important cause of child poverty, 300,000 children out of poverty. I think it is a pity that will she now commit her party to supporting the additional the Government have not adopted that proposal. I call £5 billion to help the unemployed get back into work as on the Secretary of State to look again at adopting it, as part of the fiscal stimulus, or not? Yes or no? it is an important step that the Government could take towards meeting their 2020 target. Mrs. May: The right hon. Lady makes such a thing of this £5 billion, but I would dearly love to hear her stand up and recognise that some of the money that she is Yvette Cooper: Will the right hon. Lady tell me how talking about as investment to get people back into she proposes to pay for that measure? Secondly, does it work is merely replacing capacity in Jobcentre Plus come first on her priority list, or does it come after which has been lost as a result of a decision taken by her cutting inheritance tax for millionaires’ estates? 617 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 618

Mrs. May: The Secretary of State knows full well vital that the Secretary of State does not backtrack on how we will pay for the proposal—[Interruption.] Oh the essential programme of welfare reform, which her yes she does, because we set it out at the time— predecessor began, following our proposals. Instead, I [Interruption.] The Secretary of State says that these would prefer to see her go further, as we originally are measures that the Government are already taking. proposed and still advocate. Well, that is not the case, as I will show. Sadly, what this Part of tackling worklessness is making work pay Government are doing on welfare reform—I assume and making work possible, which involves setting an she is referring to welfare reform—does not go far environment in which good-quality part-time or flexible enough and will not have a sufficient impact on helping jobs can be provided for parents, along with high-quality people back into work. and affordable child care options. I am disappointed that the Bill does not reflect those issues, and I urge the Mr. Jamie Reed rose— Government to recognise how vital such interrelated aspects of family life are. Mrs. May: No, I want to make some more progress. As it happens, I was about to come to the fact that Paul Rowen (Rochdale) (LD): Will the right hon. work provides the only sustainable route out of poverty, Lady give way? which is why it is important to understand that child poverty is parental poverty as well. I am disappointed Mrs. May: I will make a little progress. that the Bill does not give greater attention to the Another part of tackling worklessness will be improving importance of business and economic regeneration. It the life chances of our poorest children through the says little about local enterprise, but that must be a key education system. Again, it is disappointing that the part of any local partnerships to tackle poverty. We Bill does not give greater recognition of that. For example, have not begun to tackle the problem of worklessness in local colleges and universities could be considered as this country. We went into the recession with nearly partner authorities for local government. The simple 5 million people claiming some form of out-of-work fact is that we need more good school places; poorer benefit. Despite one of the most sustained periods of children are missing out because of a lack of them. economic growth in our history, hardly a dent has been Therefore, instead of backtracking on the academies made on the hard core of welfare dependency, and we programme, as the Secretary of State for Children, are now seeing record rises in unemployment. Schools and Families has, we should build on it by Worklessness and benefit dependency put children allowing educational charities, philanthropists, existing and young people at risk of a cycle of poverty, yet school federations, not-for-profit trusts, co-operatives Britain has a higher proportion of children living in and groups of parents to set up new schools in the state workless households than any other EU country. The sector and access public funding equivalent to that of figures show why that is so serious: in households in existing state schools. That would allow the creation of which all the adults work, a child has only an 8 per cent. 200,000 new school places. chance of being in poverty; in households in which no We need to divert resources to pupils from disadvantaged adults work, that figure rises to 61 per cent. Even the backgrounds, ensuring that they get the earliest possible initial progress in reducing child poverty occurred not opportunity to choose the best schools and teaching, as because of success in tackling high levels of worklessness; my hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael one recent report has shown that the number of children Gove) has set out. Education leading to work provides a living in households in poverty—or those that would be route out of poverty. However, for some children, the in poverty without tax credits—has increased by nearly effect of being born into poverty will already be apparent 1 million under Labour. Of course, tax credits have when they start school. That is why early interventions been a means of helping the poorest families. However, in a child’s health and development are crucial. I again as the Government now accept, a strategy that relies pay tribute to the work on this matter done not only by solely on tax credits, without getting people into work, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and is not sustainable. Worse, such an approach undermines Woodford Green, but by the hon. Member for Nottingham, incentives to work. North (Mr. Allen). It is disgraceful that the Government have cut the Ms Buck: Without support for tax credits, the logic of number of health visitors by 2,000 over the past four the right hon. Lady’s position is that she is prepared to years. Health visitors give families the support and see parents going into employment even if that employment advice that can help children to secure a good start in leaves them below the poverty level. Will she confirm life. We would increase their numbers by more than that that is the case? 4,000, guaranteeing a minimum of six hours of health visitor support in the home for all families during the Mrs. May: I did not say that at all, and I suggest that first two weeks of a child’s life. There is no magic the hon. Lady listens more closely. solution, but we must consider such policies if we are to reverse the increases in child poverty that we have seen As the Institute for Fiscal Studies has stated, the in recent years. extension of means-testing has weakened incentives for many people to stay in work and increase their earnings. Yvette Cooper: The right hon. Lady has spoken about It rightly warns that the strategy that the Government the importance of the early years. Can she confirm that have clung to for so long might have the effect of she proposes to cut the Sure Start programme? increasing poverty by weakening incentives for parents to work. Without a clear recognition of the importance Mrs. May: That is a myth that the Labour Government of local enterprise and regeneration, the Bill contains have attempted to perpetuate for many years. We have little to tackle the problem of welfare dependency. It is not said that we will cut the Sure Start programme. 619 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 620

[Mrs. May] fight against child poverty. In our towns and villages, in the cities, in the countryside, in our streets, in our state Numerous elements must be considered as part of a schools and hospitals and elsewhere, it has blighted broad, holistic approach to child poverty—debt, addictions, our efforts. health care, housing and the criminal justice system—and Each and every one of us in the House should be we will press the Government on those issues during the plagued by the presence of child poverty in our country remaining stages of the Bill’s passage. It would be a of wealth and abundance. It should haunt our sleep and wasted opportunity if they ignored them. terrorise our waking moments, because child poverty is The Bill must mark a second phase in our nation’s not a choice, and nowhere in the country is it inexorable progress towards ending child poverty. The first phase or unavoidable. Child poverty is a consequence of our was simply not good enough. It was a one-dimensional actions. It is an illustration of our failings, and for approach that focused solely on tax credits and, tragically members of my party its defeat is a cause worth devoting but predictably, resulted in an increase in child poverty the rest of our lives to. However, in doing so, we must at the very time when it should be decreasing. The same remember that the longer it takes to defeat child poverty, mistake must not be made again. Poverty is a complex the harder victory will become. and stubborn blight on our nation, and we will not I welcome the Bill. It is clearly necessary, and no eliminate it until we recognise its causes and tackle them other party could or would have introduced such legislation. head on. That means supporting the family as the most The Government’s record since 1997 in taking 500,000 important institution in our society. It means tackling children out of poverty—now they are on the way to generational worklessness and welfare dependency. It taking another 500,000 children out of it—is a worthy means ending the failures of our education system, one of which we can all be proud. which result in so much wasted talent. It means working with local government, businesses and the voluntary Mr. Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): sector in all parts of the country. I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman could tell us The Government’s intention in presenting the Bill whether he believes that the number of children in now is to bind the next Conservative Government. I severe poverty has increased or decreased since the assure the Minister and the House that the next Labour Government came to power. Conservative Government will not adopt a one-dimensional approach to child and family poverty. We will recognise, Mr. Reed: I understand that the definition of severe and seek to tackle, the complex web of issues that lead poverty has been roundly condemned by the agencies to it, as part of our aim to improve the well-being and most concerned about the alleviation of child poverty life chances of all those living in the United Kingdom. in this country. It is seen as something of a smokescreen put up by a party that, sadly, refuses to support the very measure that has taken so many children out of poverty. 5.31 pm Mr. Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): I think that I Ms Buck: I am interested in that question. Is not it speak for everyone when I say how dismayed I am by the case that the Institute for Fiscal Studies and the the hollow and poor understanding, the poor grasp of Child Poverty Action Group estimate that, if the definition the facts, and the real lack of compassion displayed by of severe poverty now being promoted by the Conservative the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs. May). party were applied to its record in government, severe I have spoken in the Chamber many times about poverty would have increased by 500 per cent. during matters of importance to me and to my constituents. I those 18 years? have spoken about matters of national and international importance, and about the policy solutions required if Mr. Reed: My hon. Friend makes a compelling point. we are to succeed in those areas. Sometimes I have That is absolutely right. spoken about my role as an individual, and the roles The lives of the children we have lifted from poverty that my constituents have played, not only in helping to are not simply lives transformed; in many cases, they solve the problems but, on some occasions, in causing are literally lives saved. Our actions have undoubtedly them. With that last element particularly in mind, if we prevented significant cases of poverty, including child are truly to understand and defeat child poverty each poverty, across the board. There should be pride in and every adult in the country must understand the part that—but while one British child still languishes in that we have played in helping to create it. poverty, there can be no satisfaction. It is a matter of fact that in the world’s fourth largest economy, at the beginning of the 21st century, the John Mason: I note that the hon. Gentleman has used existence of poverty—and child poverty in particular— the words “defeat child poverty” before, and he is shames us all. We in this country pride ourselves on our talking now about one child being left in poverty, so I liberal democracy, our values, our national character wonder whether he is satisfied with the idea of 10 per and much else. Too often, however, we retreat into those cent. being left in poverty. Would that be counted as comfort zones, satisfied with what we have achieved, eradication? satisfied with what we stand for, and satisfied with ourselves. Because the challenges that face us as individuals Mr. Reed: The measures in the Bill are the most and as legislators are often relentless, there is an unprecedented steps towards defeating child poverty in understandable desire in some quarters to take flight this country ever—but, for me as an individual, no I am from the front line on occasion, and to take stock and not satisfied. However, without measures such as the repair before entering the fray anew. I entirely understand minimum wage, the new deal, Sure Start centres and that attitude, but I reject it, because it has burdened the much else, the incidence of child poverty would be 621 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 622 much greater. We should judge colleagues in the House alone is not enough. More behavioural and cultural on their actions, not their words. Their voting record change is needed on the part of all of us if we are to tells us all that we need to know about that. prevail. The truth is that we should have done more. Surely It is not just the job of the teacher to identify those we all accept that, but by creating a statutory duty for children in their classroom who are living in poverty. It child poverty to be effectively defeated by 2020, the is not just the role of the Department for Work and Government deserve great credit. It is a bold step. I Pensions to identify imperilled families. That is also welcome it, but urge that the date be brought forward. about the local priest who looks after an impoverished Is it the unintentional consequence of the Bill to allow a parish yet rarely sees the poor among her congregation. child born today not to enjoy that right—that is what it It is about the local councillor who sees poverty on his will become under law: a right for children—until they streets and does not shake his council into action. It is are 11? That cannot be right. Perhaps the Minister can about the shopkeeper who knows he should not sell inform the House why 2020 has been chosen, what the alcohol and tobacco to under-age children but turns a next 11 years will look like, and how any potential blind eye. It is about the police officer who picks up the change of Government would affect the fulfilment of same kids from the same estates for the same reasons that statutory obligation. Children’s charities are very time and again. It is about the Member of Parliament concerned about such a prospect. who has no affinity with his constituency, does not see Can we also have a guarantee that the fight against the impoverished children in his area, and is either too child poverty will be properly resourced, irrespective of detached, too distracted or too uninterested to solve the the broader economic outlook? I ask those questions problem. It is about the neighbour who does not lend a because the House is very good at listening to those hand. In short, it is about each and every one of us. We with a voice—victims of collapsed financial schemes, of must accept that child poverty is our problem, not industrial injuries and of other serious injustices—and someone else’s. we are always adept at listening to the media. We are adept at listening to the taxpayer and we are able to Mr. Streeter: The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful discern special interest groups when we hear them, all in speech, which I am appreciating, but in his long list of the knowledge that those voices have votes. people for whom child poverty is an issue he has not yet mentioned parents. There should be more in this Bill Poor children cannot vote. Their voice is usually a about the important role played by parents in the early whisper, and evidence suggests that when—sometimes years of a child’s upbringing. Will he come on to talk that means if—they reach adulthood, they do not vote about that? at all. Why? Because we consign those people to the under-class—a class of people who are, as the term suggests, outside society and outside the acceptable, Mr. Reed: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for without a voice and living in the shadows. The journey that intervention, and he pre-empts my next sentence. from the maternity ward to the shadows of poverty is a By “hard influence”, I mean precisely parents and the quick one, and begins the second a child is born into a encouragement of self-reliance where there is none to family living in poverty, whether their poverty is relative be found. or absolute. I think that we can all take genuine comfort This is why community efforts are so vital. Whitehall from the fact that the national health service ensures cannot provide the full arsenal that communities need that all our children are born equal, but that equality to defeat poverty, because most men and women in withers the instant a child leaves hospital. Whitehall have probably never seen child poverty. This summer, I will hold a child poverty conference in my constituency. That will bring together local Sure John Howell: The hon. Gentleman is making an Start centres, voluntary providers of child services, local interesting point, with which I happen to agree: a lot of government, social services, GPs, schools, businesses the effort should be local rather than central. However, and Churches. The aim of that group will be to identify why then does he agree with a Bill that is so rigid in its the child poverty in my constituency, its scope, location central planning diktat for local government? and nature, and then to develop a plan to beat it. Fundamentally, the aim is to defeat child poverty in my Mr. Reed: Because we have a fundamental difference constituency well before 2020. It has to be this way, and of understanding in respect of the Bill’s scope, provisions I urge other hon. Members to do the same. and aims. I think it is a very enabling Bill, which allows The battle against child poverty must be fought locally; people to provide the solutions that they see as being it cannot be fought solely on a national basis. There is the most appropriate for their own communities. little prospect of a lever being pulled in Whitehall that I have talked about community efforts and the good will have an instantaneous effect in my constituency. We men and women of Whitehall not having actually seen need soft influence as well as hard influence—carrots poverty. Most areas will be different, and in any event and sticks. child poverty will not be beaten between the hours of On soft influence, which the Secretary of State has 9 and 5, Monday to Friday. With this in mind, I already mentioned, I return to remarks I made at the particularly welcome provisions in clause 8 of the Bill, beginning of my speech about individuals helping in where the Secretary of State must consider what action their own way to create child poverty. Individuals do is necessary, with regard to the employment of parents help to create child poverty; we in this Chamber help to and the provision of financial support for families, do so in our communities, by ignoring both its causes and in health, education, social services, housing, the and its signs. For us truly to succeed, this has to change. environment and other policy areas, to ensure that the As significant as this legislation is, better central policy fight against child poverty succeeds. 623 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 624

[Mr. Jamie Reed] 5.46 pm

That cross-departmental approach is essential if we Steve Webb (Northavon) (LD): It is a pleasure to are to succeed. However, I know that such collegiate follow the hon. Member for Copeland (Mr. Reed), who working can be very difficult, and for this co-ordination reminds us, in this discussion of statistics and targets, to be truly effective it will have to be done in Cabinet about the human face of child poverty and the fact that and enforced at the highest level. Will the Government tackling child poverty is a cause, not simply yet another ensure that the permanent secretaries of various benchmark, target or box-ticking exercise. His perspective Departments are as seized as they are of the importance is very welcome and his commitment to action in his of this agenda? constituency is impressive. I welcome the Bill. I sometimes tend to be slightly I also welcome the emphasis placed on local authorities. churlish in response to Government Bills, but I unreservedly Independence is important, but will the Secretary of welcome the fact that this one contains a commitment State provide more information regarding discretion to tackling child poverty. At Prime Minister’s questions among local authorities? Will the Government also last week, the Prime Minister talked about abolishing ensure that local authorities prioritise need above other child poverty. I think that the House would recognise considerations? I would hope that they would. that that is not what this Bill sets as its target; it sets a target of having fewer than 10 per cent. of children Mr. Graham Stuart: Will the hon. Gentleman give living in relative poverty—by my maths, that still works way? out as 1 million children. The common understanding among the public of “abolishing” child poverty would not be that 1 million children are left in poverty. I hope Mr. Reed: I have been more than generous in giving that the Government and the Ministers present today way, and I must now make some progress. will reflect on how they describe this Bill, because there is a danger of a noble end being oversold—Governments Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP) rose— of all sides have a tendency to do that. If the aim is presented as the abolition of child poverty and a future Government subsequently pat themselves on the back Mr. Reed: My apologies to my hon. Friend, too, for because only 1 million children are in poverty, the not giving way. public would be justified in thinking that that was not Will the Government also ensure that the innovation, quite what they had in mind. I hope that Ministers will energy and insight of the third sector are put at the be more realistic about what this Government seek to forefront of our efforts? In my experience, the flexibility achieve through the Bill, but I welcome an objective of the voluntary sector can often—not always, but of this sort and a process for monitoring progress often—lead to more successful and productive outcomes towards it. than when statutory bodies pursue similar aims. Tackling child poverty must be among the most Mr. Graham Stuart: I agree with the point that the important public spending priorities. The budgets relating hon. Gentleman has just made, which is all the more to that policy agenda must be ring-fenced and, as a bold right because in a number of countries, including Denmark, extension to that, we should further incentivise the the level of child poverty is below 5 per cent. Thus, to benefits of employment for the poorest families in our suggest that the eradication of child poverty should society by taking them out of the taxation system involve a figure of 10 per cent. is at least slightly altogether until they no longer live in poverty of any misleading. kind, be it relative or absolute. Finally, will the Government consider establishing pilot projects with the aim of Steve Webb: It is certainly true that the UK has a very defeating child poverty in discrete identified areas well poor record on child poverty compared with most of before the 2020 deadline? I volunteer my constituency the rest of the European Union, and I shall discuss that for such a pilot, and I look forward to the Government’s later. Our record has got progressively worse over the response. past 20 to 30 years, although at least some welcome efforts have been made to reverse the situation in the This Bill is precisely what my party, and this Government, past decade or so. The extent of child poverty in this are for. I commend Ministers and the Prime Minister country is internationally embarrassing. for what has been achieved so far, but I urge them to be even bolder by bringing the target date of 2020 forward. I hope that the House will forgive me for being Today we celebrate the 40th anniversary of putting a autobiographical for a moment—I am not referring to man on the moon, but let us never forget that that feat my own poor childhood, but to my career prior to was not the inevitable consequence of a pressing industrial coming into this House. My first job was working at the or scientific need; it was the result of a political choice. Institute for Fiscal Studies, whose work has been cited Kennedy famously stated: on a number of occasions during this debate. In the nine years I was there, my entire research was on “We choose to go to the moon.” poverty and child poverty, and the measurement of it. A combination of sufficient resources and political Although I was working for an avowedly non-party determination made it possible. Politics is about priorities political think tank—I had to leave it when I was and choices. The fact that 40 years after conquering the selected as a parliamentary candidate to help preserve moon we should still be discussing the spectre of child its party political neutrality—monitoring poverty poverty is a sickening tragedy and a savage indictment under the previous Conservative Government during of our society, so let us choose to do more. Let us the late 1980s and early 1990s was, over many years, a choose to defeat child poverty and to do so before 2020. profoundly politicising piece of work. I say that because 625 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 626 we would update the figures each year, check the relevant it was even spent on cutting the top rate from 60 per Department’s figures and monitor trends in child poverty cent. to 40 per cent. That is where that Government and find that year after year the level of child poverty spent money when they had money. Within a year or would remorselessly grow. A majority of people would two of those tax changes, they also froze child benefit. do relatively well, enjoying tax cuts, and the people at The priority of dealing with child poverty was certainly the top would do exceptionally well, but year after year not borne out in practice. more and more children would find themselves in poverty. The policy of the Conservative Government in office One of the things that caused me to cease being an was to link benefits for children to the retail prices even-handed academic and to want to engage in the index. At a time of economic growth, that link means political process was the fact that I was appalled at what that relative poverty rates will rise remorselessly over was happening in our country to the most vulnerable the long term, year in and year out. We can argue about people. Some people did very well in the late 1980s, but the efficiency of the delivery mechanism when it comes children in poverty did not. Therefore, this is a Bill that to tax credits, but the amounts that have gone into them could never have been brought forward by a Conservative have been a substantial increase over the RPI—a marked Government, because they stood idly by and watched difference to what we saw under the Conservatives. child poverty reach record levels. To hear Conservative Front Benchers suggest that they even care about this Mr. Graham Stuart: Will the hon. Gentleman accept subject, and that it would be some sort of priority, is that child poverty rates have not fallen significantly frankly unbelievable. under this Government and that employment is the People are judged by what they do when they have biggest single influence in getting children out of poverty? the chance to do something, and, in 18 years, there was It was employment that the last Conservative Government at best benign neglect and, in some cases, policies that prioritised. There was no indifference or lack of care. actively made matters worse. We have heard of the To suggest that Conservative Members do not care freezing of child benefit, and I would add to the list the about child poverty is a gross distortion and an untruth, abolition of grants for essential items for lone parents and I ask the hon. Gentleman to withdraw that remark. on benefit, and their replacement with repayable loans from the social fund, which had to be paid back out of Steve Webb: I seem to recall that when Mrs. Thatcher inadequate benefits. Under those reforms, people could came to power, unemployment was slightly over 1 million, get to the point at which they were too poor to qualify and it reached 3 million within two years. It was still even for a loan. The Conservative party said that poor 3 million in the mid-1980s and that had a devastating families were getting too much help through the grant impact on child poverty. This issue is cyclical, but the system, and replaced it with repayable loans that had a Government have clear control over the underlying threshold that meant that people could be too poor to policy, such as benefit rates. If benefit rates are price-indexed be entitled to help. That is what happens when the over a period of decades, people on benefits are cut Conservatives’ priorities are put into practice. adrift. At the time, that was explicit Government policy, because the argument was that people would be motivated That is one reason why I welcome the framework of to seek work if life on benefits was made very difficult this Bill, the 2020 target and the commission. There has for them. That was Government policy for decades, and been a spurious suggestion that there will be a vast, I do not approve of it. sprawling quango that will rob the public purse of money. In fact, the estimated cost of this new body is John Mason: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that £20,000 for a dozen people to come together four times getting parents into employment does not automatically a year to discuss the issue, with two civil servants mean that children are not in poverty? Many children in working on it. In the context of one of the biggest social poverty now are in families with at least one parent problems of our age, that is a tiny amount of money. If working, and that would be made worse if there were no this is one of the quangos that the shadow Secretary of minimum wage—which the Conservative party does State suggests would be abolished by a new Conservative not really support. Government, I would like to know what she would put in its place. Steve Webb: The hon. Gentleman is right that there is substantial in-work poverty. The role of the minimum Andrew Selous (South-West Bedfordshire) (Con): The wage, however, is less clear-cut. I support the minimum hon. Gentleman has launched a withering attack on my wage, but many of those on it are young people, so the party. As a former statistician, he will be aware that the link between it and households in poverty is not as close current figure for children in poverty is 23 per cent. I as one might imagine, although it is part of the overall have looked back at the figures, and it has been around picture. the 23 per cent. figure for the past 30 years. It has gone up and down around that figure—[Interruption.] If the John Battle: I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for hon. Gentleman and Ministers look at the figures, they sticking with this issue since 1980s, paying close attention will see that the figure of 23 per cent. has occurred fairly to the figures and having a clear analysis. Some of us regularly over the past 20 to 30 years. Why does he were working on poverty in charities and non-governmental think that there has not been a big improvement in the organisations at the time. Does he agree that perhaps last 12 years? the language that we have used has been wrong? We have looked at poverty as though there are puddles of Steve Webb: My recollection of the years I spent poverty that can be mopped up here and there, when in looking at those figures is very different. In the late fact we face deep, entrenched and endemic poverty that 1980s, when there was public money to spare, it was has a multitude of causes. We need long-term, patient spent on cutting the standard rate of income tax. Indeed, and serious attention paid locally to those challenges. 627 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 628

Steve Webb: The right hon. Gentleman is right to say difficult cases when the public finances are crippled? It that poverty has many facets. One of the welcome is an admirable goal, but do the Government believe aspects of the Bill is that rather than pick a single point that we will achieve it? If they do, why have we gone so of a graph and say, “That is poverty, but that is not”, it slowly relative to what we need to do, given that we have measures poverty in various ways, including material been going only for the low-hanging fruit? deprivation and persistent poverty. The needs of children in poverty are complex and the My hunch is that the Government have made a rod policies for tackling them will be expensive; for example, for their own back with this Bill. They have set four complex issues arise for children in families with disabilities targets. The absolute poverty target is a waste of time. It or for children living in care. My understanding is that will just enable the Government to pat themselves on children in care do not count in the figures because they the back—if they cannot reach the poverty target for do not live in households, and surveys are based on 10 years ago, we are really in trouble and might as households I have no idea what the number of children well all go home. The target on persistent poverty, in care is, although I ought to know—[HON.MEMBERS: however, will be a nightmare, as will the one on material “Sixty thousand.”] Although there are 60,000 children deprivation. Therefore, it is entirely laudable that the living in care, could we declare the problem of child Government have included those targets in the Bill, and poverty solved because the children are not in the I welcome that. survey? Is there some way of grafting them on? I appreciate that mixing and matching is tricky, but it Mr. Streeter: I respect the hon. Gentleman’s expertise would be an omission if we excluded children living in in this matter, and I shall therefore ask him a genuine local authority care. question removed from the party political issues. Does Children in homeless households probably do not he think that it is possible for a family living wholly on find their way into the surveys. In theory, a household benefits to be living above the poverty line? survey can pick up a homeless household, but if people are in temporary accommodation or transient, or if Steve Webb: That is a central question in this debate. they moved out between the time the survey application If there is a goal to abolish child poverty in a meaningful comes and the interviewer turns up, they would at the sense, and benefit levels are below 60 per cent. of very least be under-represented. Might not a whole set median, some families will always be in child poverty. of vulnerable children be missing from the survey? Can Even with the most benign economic environment, the Government think of a better way of including significant numbers of families will probably always be them because they are very important? on benefit. Ministers will have more accurate figures, but I suspect that the benefit level for an unemployed Ms Keeble: The hon. Gentleman might also want to family with two children is not far off the 60 per cent. take into account the fact that Traveller children and line. It is not implausible to think that people on basic the children of asylum seekers are not included, which benefit levels are just out of income poverty.The assumption is a major point. that people would be in income poverty by being on benefit troubles me, and it should relate to the definition Steve Webb: Obviously, a lot will depend on the exact of the adequacy of benefits. I hope that the Minister methodology of the survey. There are permanent local will be able to give a more precise answer to that authority Traveller sites in my constituency where the question than I can. residents are on the electoral register, so they would be Britain’s historic record, especially in the 1980s, was included, but I accept the general point. The hon. Lady shocking, but where we are now is very worrying. In the is right: there is a risk that some of the most vulnerable European context, we are better only than Italy, Poland children would be under-represented. and Romania. All the other 25 EU countries have better As I think has already been pointed out in the debate, child poverty rates than we do. The goal of being about the issue is not just about cash, but dealing with financial as good as the best European countries is a start, but it hardship and pressures on families will certainly help. should not be the end of our ambitions. That is one of the causative factors in family breakdown—to One of my greatest concerns is that an opportunity return to the point made by the hon. Member for has been missed in the last 12 years. If we have made so South-West Devon (Mr. Streeter) about the impact of little progress when the economy was doing relatively family breakdown. When people go to bed every night well, it will get much harder in several respects. Presumably, worried about paying the bills, relationships come under the first to be taken out of poverty are the low-hanging pressure. Tackling that problem might be one of the fruit—those who are only a few percentage points below most practical things we could do to support couples in the line, who are temporarily on a low income, who will staying together. The hon. Gentleman suggested that find another job or who are poor for a simple, single we put something about marriage or parents in the Bill. reason rather than complex and multiple reasons. Relatively I am not sure that we need to write anything explicitly in speaking, it is cheap and easy to take such people out of the Bill—that we need to legislate—but there are a lot of poverty. If we are behind schedule in the good times, policies that might address that point, en route to what will be different about the years to 2020 that mean delivering the child poverty goal. that we will not only catch up but accelerate our progress? In the big picture, we have not so far dwelt enough on If we could not achieve the goal when we had the the get-out clause: clause 15. I do not think the shadow political will and the money in the bank, when the Secretary of State mentioned it—probably because she public finances looked relatively good and the economy hopes to invoke it. The idea that the Government might was growing—if all we could do was tackle the low-hanging say, “Well, child poverty is terrible, but we are broke,” fruit and even be behind schedule on that—is it credible really would cause fundamental doubt about the that we will accelerate progress and tackle the most whole Bill. 629 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 630

Mr. Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con): We are surveys, because we know that the household surveys broke. on which the statistics are based tend, for various reasons, to under-represent urban areas and people Steve Webb: But is the Conservative party committed from minority ethnic groups. The surveys are grossed to the Bill or not? We know the state of the public up to population figures to correct for biases in age, sex finances, so we risk doing a disservice to our electors if and marital status, but not, as far as I am aware, in we sign up to a Bill and then all quietly go off saying, ethnicity. There is a limit to how far we can go down “Of course, none of us thinks it will ever be implemented that route, but my worry is that the official figures because we’re broke.” If that is how we view the Bill, we under-state poverty, because such groups are under- should come clean. As the hon. Member for Copeland represented in the surveys and that is not corrected said, it is a question of priorities. We will be spending when the data are scaled up to population estimates. money on some things over the coming years and child Will the Minister look at that point? poverty clearly needs to be a priority. In Committee, we shall have many happy hours looking The Liberal Democrats have argued that we should at the detail of the reports. Modesty forbids me from be prioritising within existing budgets; for example, commending various papers that the Minister might rather than paying tax credits right up the income like to read over the summer; no doubt, we shall come scale, we could reallocate some of the money to lower back to them in the autumn. Stepping back from income families. That would assist in meeting the child the minutiae, it is good to have a Bill of this sort. It is poverty goal. 10 years since the then Prime Minister said that we must abolish child poverty in a generation. A child born the I have one or two more points about measuring child day after he said that is now more than halfway through poverty. Happily, we have the whole summer for the their childhood. As the hon. Member for Copeland Financial Secretary to reflect on all the points I am said, there is a real worry about urgency, although given making—I know he is pleased about that. When he and that we are behind schedule, even 2020 looks a bit the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, ambitious from where I stand. The worry is that whole the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) generations may go by, so we need an enforcement gave evidence to the Select Committee on Work and mechanism. Pensions, the issue of disabled people on disability living allowance was raised. The point was made that if In response to the Work and Pensions Committee, two people—for example, the Financial Secretary and Ministers said that the Bill states only that Ministers me—were on identical wages, but I was disabled and have to have regard to the economic situation in designing receiving DLA and had matching costs, the official their programme. That looks like a get-out clause to me. methodology would say that I was better off than him I would like clause 15 to be taken out of the Bill, because my income was higher. However, my costs because the goal should be tackling child poverty. Of would be higher. One option is not to include DLA and course Ministers will have regard to the economic then we would be the same—as we should be; but the situation—they always do and they always should—but Minister said that as the DLA is income, it has to be why do we need that clause in this Bill? It has the feel of counted. That may be so, but another way addressing a get-out clause and I hope the Government will reflect the issue is through the equivalence scale. on that. The equivalence scale takes otherwise different When the Government introduced the Climate Change households and converts them to a common denominator. Bill, they had an ambitious goal for a long-term problem Families with extra children have extra needs, so there is and they set up the Committee on Climate Change to an extra factor in the equivalence scale. Why not include oversee and monitor its enforcement. There is recognition a factor for disability in the scale? We can look at the of the fact that the public do not trust us when we say, spending patterns of households where someone has a “Vote for us and we’ll fix the problem in 20 years’ time”. disability, just as we have looked at households with We need a mechanism to monitor progress—to chivvy children, and exactly the same method that was used to and cajole. The child poverty commission is, if anything, derive the Maclennan equivalence scale could be used quite clearly under-resourced. If we want it to report to for a scale that reflects disability. We would thus have a the House on the failure of any successive Government truer impression of child poverty in households where to achieve progress on child poverty, it needs more teeth an adult is disabled. It might take many years of research and more resources. If the commission is to meet only to sort that out, but the question needs to be addressed, four times a year and be serviced by only two civil because I believe that the official figures understate servants, will it really have the needling role that the poverty in disabled households. They must do so, because Committee on Climate Change has? We need that for they add an income that is only to meet costs; it is the child poverty commission too. MPs come and MPs money that goes in and goes out again. It does not go, and people move from portfolio to portfolio, so we make the household better off net than if it was a need a body whose role in life is to chivvy whichever non-disabled household, but treats it as such. I hope the Government are in power to make sure that we make Minister will look at that issue. progress towards a noble aim that will be incredibly difficult to achieve. We talked briefly about omissions from the survey data, but some groups are under-reported, such as 6.10 pm children from minority ethnic groups where poverty rates are higher. Among white children, the figure is Ms Karen Buck (Regent’s Park and Kensington, North) about 20 per cent; it is 42 per cent. among Asian British (Lab): I start by emphasising an element of consensus children, and 31 per cent. for black British children. On that has emerged from the speeches that we have heard average, children from minority ethnic groups are more so far: that the Bill is, broadly speaking, a good thing; likely to be in poverty, but they are less likely to be in the that establishing a target in statute is, broadly speaking, 631 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 632

[Ms Karen Buck] “There is no simple picture of success or failure…trends have improved in more policy areas than they have worsened in…Notable a good thing; and that targets alone do nothing to put successes in the last decade included…reduced child and pensioner money in the hands of children who need it, so what poverty; improved educational attainment for the poorest areas and schools; and a narrowing of economic and other divides matters is what we do to reach the targets rather than between deprived and other areas.” the targets themselves. The Secretary of State gave us a It is extremely worrying that we are not able to begin compelling reason for reminding ourselves of that—the a critique of what needs to be done and why progress human dimension of child poverty—when she gave the has stalled in the past couple of years without at least example of a child who received nothing for his birthday. an honest and mature recognition of what has been That is a common experience for children living in achieved. When the official Opposition speak—this also extremely low-income families. They will actively avoid came through in interventions—they totally ignore not other people’s birthday parties. Many times I have just some of the progress but the substantive work that found that children simply do not respond to an invitation the Government have done over the past dozen years to because of their parents’ fear that they will not be able tackle the complex causes of poverty. One has only to to take a present with them. look at the annual “Opportunity for all” reports and all For the many of us who are parents, this is the first the documentation produced by the social exclusion day of the school holidays, and it is worth reminding unit to see the enormous amount of research and ourselves exactly what poverty will mean for children thinking that went into examining the complex drivers who are looking at a six-week stretch without the resources of poverty, including family breakdown and, of course, to participate in activities that are regarded as the norm worklessness, and establishing the importance of early and on offer in the community. We know that one intervention. definition of a family on a very low income is of a child It is utterly dishonest to claim that the Government of 16 living in a household where the total gross disposable have driven an entirely statist agenda on poverty without income is £100 a week or less. It costs £9 for a child of working in partnership with voluntary and community 16 to go to a cinema in my constituency, so a family organisations. That is simply nonsense, and if that is the would be looking at spending 10 per cent. of their Opposition’s intellectual level, it bodes very ill. There income on one trip to a cinema. To attend a sports are plenty of criticisms that can be made of the camp, such as a tennis coaching camp, in a local park Government, and plenty of anxieties that can be expressed would cost nearly half the family’s income, so the about where we go from here, but there is a vibrant children simply do not take part. partnership with voluntary and community organisations It is no surprise then that we see a tendency for some at both a local and a national level. I look at my own children from particularly poor families to find themselves constituency and see a range of organisations that are in trouble—bored, at a loose end and drifting into working in partnership, such as Sure Start and its antisocial behaviour. When the norm is to participate, children’s centres as well as those that are involved in and some children are not able to do so, the situation is relationship counselling and those that work with children. very difficult. One element of poverty about which we Westminster Children’s Society is our main partner in always have to remind ourselves is what the costs of delivering child care, and Women Like Us works on living actually are. Poverty is not just a matter of how outreach for parental employment. I point the right much money is coming into the household; it is about hon. Member for Maidenhead towards that kind of what demands are placed on families and their children work, and ask her to rethink the sterility of the Opposition’s and their ability to fund those commitments. position. That is as far as the consensus goes. I pay tribute to Mr. Jamie Reed: Does my hon. Friend share my view the hon. Member for Northavon (Steve Webb), who that the contribution made from the Opposition Front said a great deal with which I agree and who has a long Bench was more like a crazed attempt to force people track record of displaying knowledge and expertise on into marriage than a meaningful attempt to assault this issue. We heard a speech from the spokesperson for child poverty? the official Opposition that I found profoundly depressing in many respects. The first element that depressed me Ms Buck: I do not think that anyone sensible could was the fact that there was no recognition whatever that doubt that growing up in a stable relationship gives tough though progress has been to achieve—I shall turn a child the best possible start in life. However, I do later to some of the problems of maintaining that wonder, given the push towards marriage being reasserted progress—a great deal has been done. The right hon. by those on the Opposition Benches, why, when they Member for Maidenhead (Mrs. May) was extremely were in government, they scaled down the married negative—indeed, damning—about the Government’s person’s tax allowance to the point of its virtual record, and drew on some quotes to illustrate her argument. disappearance. There is a little hypocrisy in their position. However, we should also consider what has been said by We want to promote stable relationships, and marriage the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, the Institute for Fiscal is obviously a critical, but not the only, way of providing Studies and others. a child with a stable life. We need, above all, as the Government have done—and as, in practice, the Opposition Donald Hirsch’s report, “What is needed to end child were moving towards—to direct resources towards the poverty in 2020?” says: child rather than worry too much about the exact status “Over the last few years a significant reduction in child poverty of the relationship in which the child is growing up. has been achieved, backed by significant resources.” I want to lay to rest some myths, the first of which is Similarly, the poverty and inequality official report, the idea that one can tackle child poverty without published in February by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, money. Its causes are complex and multifaceted, and we says: need to look at education, relationships and so forth to 633 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 634 deal with them, but we will lift people out of poverty by thinking up new ideas, but about delivering on them. making sure that they have more money. It is a no-brainer, That cannot be done for free, despite the assumptions but unfortunately I hear the Conservative party propagating made by the Opposition. the myth that we can tackle child poverty without money. I want to finish by spending a minute or two on It is extremely worrying that we believe that simply something about which we did not hear much from driving parents into employment without ensuring that Ministers but about which I would like to hear more in that work pays will somehow tackle poverty—it will the winding-up speech and in Committee. None of us not. It will simply move a parent from out-of-work has done a terribly good job at convincing the public of poverty to in-work poverty, and quite possibly deepen the need to tackle child poverty. The most fascinating their poverty because of the costs that they will have to Joseph Rowntree Foundation report—it is also the one deal with. that deserves the closest scrutiny by Ministers—is the There is also the myth that we can achieve everything one that looks at attitudes to child poverty. There is a that we want to achieve through local delivery rather general assumption among the public that the word than with national Government. Ending child poverty “poverty” is associated with individual failure and, is a national Government responsibility. It requires the effectively, laziness. In part, that is obviously to do with active participation of local authorities, but I say to the abstraction of the word “poverty”, which people do Conservative Members that it is striking that my local not like, but when they are confronted with it as a authority, a flagship Conservative-controlled authority, concept, there is a general willingness to believe that did not mention the word “poverty” for 11 and a half people are the architects of their own inadequacy years, until the Government offered it some money to and poverty. deliver pilot work on reducing child poverty, whereupon In large part, that is explained by the low awareness it took the money and is now, I have to say, doing in the public mind of such elements as average income. I some very solid work on it. However, it has taken—and do not know whether any hon. Member in the Chamber will continue to take—national direction to deliver has ever taken it, but the Institute for Fiscal Studies has that work. a test on its website that asks people to place themselves Having defended the Government from what is an on an income scale. I am sure that all hon. Members admittedly reasonably easy target—the official Opposition know only too well where they are on the income scale, —I must say that it is a grave disappointment that we but most people phenomenally underestimate where have flatlined following the progress made between they stand on the scale—the IFS has applied the test to 1999 and 2006, with even a slight deterioration in the groups of civil servants in particular. Most people think situation recently, despite the welcome addition of around that they are average earners, but actually—oh boy—we £2 billion of extra investment in the 2006-07 Budgets, are not. We are very high earners indeed, while the some of which is still to come through. We have an overwhelming majority of people who take the test find interim target for 2010, which we will clearly not reach, that they are much higher on the income scale than but there is no reason for not recommitting ourselves to they expected. reaching it as soon as possible: the fact that we will not People do not understand just how low the incomes hit the target in 2010 does not mean that we cannot hit that people on low incomes are, nor do they fully it in 2011. understand, when they are earning, just how low benefits We do not want a target for 2020 to take total are. Above all, they do not understand—this point was precedence over interim measures. Similar concerns made in an earlier intervention—that half of all households were raised in relation to the Climate Change Act 2008 in poverty contain at least one person who is in work. about not allowing long-term perfection to drive out As long as we have a public assumption that poverty is the messier and less perfect but none the less very associated with out-of-work benefit-dependency, we will important interim objectives. have our work cut out in winning public support for My right hon. Friend the Financial Secretary has what needs to be done. done a great deal on this issue in his ministerial capacity Does it matter whether we have public support? It and he knows that London is at the heart of much of matters hugely, because we have a moral commitment—I our dilemma in reaching the child poverty objective. would say that we all have that commitment, in all parts London has not made progress—in fact, if London of the House—not to leave children behind in this, the had made the same progress as the rest of the country fourth largest economy in the world. It also matters a has, we would be hitting our lone parent employment great deal whether we have public support because targets and would be well on the way to hitting our poverty costs this country a great deal. The Institute for child poverty target. London’s experience has clearly Fiscal Studies estimates that the cost to the British demonstrated that incentives work in getting parents economy of maintaining high levels of child poverty is into employment and helping them to earn money and around £25 billion, while 1 to 1.8 per cent. of GDP lift themselves above the poverty target. could be saved by lifting children out of poverty. There Incentives have worked in every other part of the is therefore a powerful economic case. I am sure that country. The tax credit system has delivered lone parent hon. Members in all parts of the House would accept employment levels and reduced child poverty, but it has that long-term poverty and inequality not only are an not worked in London. Why not? Work incentives, as economic drag on this country, but take their toll on the delivered through the tax credit system, do not deliver wider economy and society. in London because our costs are so much higher. We pretty well know what works. The London child poverty 6.26 pm commission does not have a huge intellectual task ahead of it. We know what works: incentives into employment Mr. Gary Streeter (South-West Devon) (Con): It is a work, as does the delivery of affordable, quality child pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Regent’s Park care. Again, it is a no-brainer. The problem is not about and Kensington, North (Ms Buck), who made a thoughtful 635 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 636

[Mr. Gary Streeter] understand or encounter poverty; we all encounter poverty in our daily lives and in our constituency business. and passionate speech, and with whom I enjoy serving Access to employment is critical, but we must wonder on the Select Committee on Home Affairs. I am used to how much there will be over the next few years when we her intellectual analysis, and we have seen some of that are caught up this serious recession, with private sector this afternoon. unemployment still rising and possibly public sector We all want to eradicate or severely reduce child jobs being lost in the next five years, whoever wins the poverty. There is much in the Bill that we can all next general election. support, and we wish it well. We hope that it works. So we can increase benefits and improve access to Whichever Government oversee its implementation, we employment, but a third thing that we can focus on—it very much hope that child poverty in this country will is not tackled in the Bill—is improving the stability of be reduced. However, I would like to make a few comments, the framework in which children grow up. The Bill is and I hope that the Financial Secretary, who is a very primarily about financial poverty, but children suffer all reasonable man, may take some of them on board and kinds of poverty—it is not just about pounds, shillings seek to improve the Bill as it goes through Committee, and pence. The hon. Member for Regent’s Park and although sadly I shall be supporting him only from a Kensington, North made an important point about distance in that process. children who cannot afford to go to the cinema, go on a I want first to explore the issue of targets. It seems family trip or go out with their friends. I accept that to be becoming quite a fashionable framework for the those are serious impediments, but children are also Government to impose a target and then set up a poor in terms of encouragement, stability, a nurturing commission to monitor it—we have seen that primarily environment, and a framework of values in which they with climate change. One of the problems with targets is can grow and succeed. It is not about single parents—it that they can be a distortion. We asked the Home is about households of chaos, as I tend to call them, and Secretary about targets when he appeared before the broken families. How many children grow up in households Home Affairs Committee last week. The police now of chaos where they do not enjoy a sense of security have only one target, which is public confidence. A and stability and tend to go from pillar to post? That is couple of years ago, however, they had dozens of targets. one of the greatest factors in the creation of poverty. There is now a recognition that targets can sometimes There is not much about that in the Bill, and that be a distortion. worries me. Targets can also be a disappointment. Perhaps the There is a missed opportunity in clause 8(5). In most famous set of targets in the world are the millennium considering and measuring how we are making progress development goals, according to which we will do on child poverty, if we are to take into account education, tremendous things by 2015, but sadly—tragically—it health and housing—all very sensible—why on earth looks as though we will not hit those targets or anything should we not take into account the frameworks of like them by 2015. I just hope that we have not set stability and security in which children are growing up? people up for a huge disappointment, which will not That is a key factor. I recognise that there is no magic help the implementation of policy. wand to create those frameworks. However, I hope that I therefore worry slightly about the Government just when the Committee considers the Bill line by line, it saying, “Here’s the target and this is a solution.” A will at least debate that, and perhaps add the requirement target is not a substitute for a plan and a strategy. I that we should take into account the stability and would like to see a little more depth to the Government’s security that can breed the nurturing environment and plan and strategy in the Bill. A target can give us the freedom from poverty that we want for all our children. impression that we are doing something, when in fact Of course the Bill is well meaning, but it slightly misses all we are doing is creating a target. As for the commission the point about the cause of poverty for too many that will oversee that target, I wish it luck; but as we children—it would be better if it said a little about have heard today, it will not be significantly resourced, stability and family breakdown. so I wonder what contribution it will make. I strongly support the policy advocated by my Front- We must not forget that a recent UN report concluded Bench colleagues on putting a form of stability back that the children growing up in the UK right now are into the tax system. I am modern enough to accept that some of the unhappiest in the whole of Europe. Why is not everybody is going to get married. I happen to be that? The answer is not just about pounds, shillings and married, as are many people in this Chamber. The pence—that point is the missing ingredient in the Bill statistics tell us that marriage creates a form of stability and in this debate, although it has been reflected slightly that no other union or relationship has known in the in some of the interventions. How many ways are there past or is likely to know in future. However, I recognise of raising children out of poverty? We can increase that lots of people do not want to get married—that is benefits significantly—we had an exchange about that fine. I am interested not so much in marriage as in earlier, although I do not pretend to be an expert on the promoting stability for our young children. I think that benefits system; I will leave that to the hon. Member for marriage is the most important vehicle for stability; Northavon (Steve Webb), who certainly is an expert on none the less, I want those who choose another way of it—but the call on the Exchequer will be dramatic. life to enjoy a stable relationship, at least while their We know that we can improve access to employment, children are growing up. which is a significant way of helping children and I am probably pulling the rug from under my feet by families get out of poverty, and I frequently ask myself asking how we can achieve that in relation to non-married how we go about that when I encounter poverty in my couples, which is a tricky thing to do. I see that the hon. constituency surgeries. It was rather unkind of an earlier Member for Northavon is thinking of intervening on speaker to suggest that Conservative Members do not me—I hope that he will stay in his seat, because I do not 637 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 638 have an easy answer. However, at least we can make a we must not put it in a straitjacket that squeezes the life start with the significant number of people who choose out of its performance. It has a huge part to play in to be married. If we had a tax system that favoured supporting and underpinning families and children, marriage, or at least did away with the penalty on and I wish that the Bill did more to encourage that—it couples, that could give a wider choice to people who is another wasted opportunity. have chosen not to get married, and who could then opt I am nervous about the setting up of another quango. into that system. Although we cannot pass a Bill to I have heard that it is not one of the most expensive, but create stability, we could nudge people by sending a even appointing such independent people would be an strong signal that we want to underpin stability for expensive process in itself. families; that would create the right mood music. There is a grievous omission in the Bill as regards I want to see much more early intervention in the children in care—60,000 youngsters who are surely the lives of children who are clearly in difficulty—not only poorest of the poor, in view of all the opportunities that those who are at risk but those who are in danger of have been denied them after their removal from their growing up under-achieving and in poverty. The idea families, for all kinds of legitimate reasons. Now that that has come from Conservative Front Benchers about we are talking about child poverty, is it not time for a equipping and deploying an army of district nurses major push in trying to intervene more effectively in the would be the right way forward. Having experienced, lives of children in care, particularly when so many of practical people going into the home, seeing what is them leave care aged 16 and go into a vacuum? I ask the going on, being able to give advice and acting as a Minister to reflect on that. gateway to other advisers would be a useful tool for underpinning stability and early intervention for children The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen who are in danger of falling into poverty and the kind Timms) rose— of under-achievement that we see all too frequently. We talk about these difficult-to-achieve issues to do Mr. Streeter: Of course I give way to the respected with creating stability, supporting parents and early Minister. intervention, but we do not expect the civil service to do that as it cannot easily be done by the state. The Bill is Mr. Timms: I hope that the hon. Gentleman will oddly and disappointingly silent about harnessing the recognise that clause 8(2)(b) refers to all children. The resources of the voluntary and charitable sectors. I am difficulty, though, is in defining what is meant by a child not saying that they can solve every ill—of course they in care being below the poverty line—that is a measurement cannot—but there is a vast reservoir of good will and a that cannot be addressed in the Bill. I agree, however, vast army of people who can supply some of the advice, that we need to ensure that children in care, children in wisdom, time and support that so many of these families Traveller families and others benefit from the improvements and parents are struggling to find. that it sets out. I welcome the provision on local authorities and their delivery partners, but the situation as regards outcomes Mr. Streeter: The Minister makes a good point. Perhaps is very patchy around the country. Many local authorities that is one reason why the definition of poverty—although are not good at giving leadership to the voluntary and I know that the Bill focuses primarily on financial charitable sectors in their communities and ensuring poverty—should at least give credence to other forms of that there is better co-ordination. We need to improve poverty, which would make things easier. The one thing the situation—the Bill does not do so—and I hope that that I would like the Government to do for children in that can be done in Committee. Why is the voluntary care, which could easily be done through this Bill, is to sector able to succeed more than the civil service—more ensure that they have proper back-up when they leave than paid employees or the state—in supporting parents care. A lot of them go into a vacuum. A social worker and families who are struggling? It is a question of might contact them once in a blue moon—we know motivation, of time, and of being able to give a personal, how busy they are—and many of these children end up one-on-one commitment to seeing a problem through. on the streets as the poorest of the poor. That is what many people need. The voluntary sector This has been a very interesting debate. Some people can help with that, and we need to be a lot better at say that in modern-day politics there is no difference harnessing it. between the main parties. I think that debates such as We need to include in that the faith communities, this show that there is a difference still between the main whichever faith might be involved. We must be a lot parties, and I think that it is a healthy difference. One of better at deciding what faith communities can do, what the differences that I would see is that the Government they cannot do, and what we want them to do. Of are still intent on a top-down solution—if I might say course, no one wants to see them proselytising at the so, a rather bureaucratic, pounds shillings and pence expense of the public purse—that is completely wrong. solution—whereas I would like to think that the Opposition On the other hand, we do not want to intervene in are looking at this issue in its proper context. We see charitable works with a spiritual component that are that child poverty is at least in part a reflection on the undertaken by faith communities, and try to squeeze family breakdown that we are seeing in our country, so the life out of them. We cannot say, “Oh yes, that sadly, at this time. We know that to tackle this problem works—we’d like you to do more of it, please, but here’s properly is not just a matter of introducing a new a set of rules we want you to follow that will mean that bureaucratic system, a set of targets or a new commission; you won’t be getting the same results as previously.” it is about rolling up our sleeves and grappling with the This must be based on results. We must monitor what difficulty of trying to foster security and stability once the voluntary sector is doing and vet it with a light again for families in this country so that children can touch—it must comply with professional standards—but grow up to achieve their full potential. 639 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 640

6.41 pm poverty. When we look at the households that those Julie Morgan (Cardiff, North) (Lab): This has been children come from, we can see why they live in poverty. an important and interesting debate. Child poverty is The reasons have all been mentioned today. one of the most important issues that the Government The Joseph Rowntree Foundation notes that 60 per are tackling. I strongly support the Bill and congratulate cent. of Welsh children who live in poverty live in a the Government on the steps that they have taken so far workless household and that 40 per cent. live in a and on having the courage to go for these ambitious lone-parent household. Some 40 per cent. of children targets. Indeed, that is a great tribute for what they have who live with a disabled parent are in poverty, compared already done. with 25 per cent. of those whose parents are not disabled. I want to start by paying tribute to all the organisations We have already heard about issues concerning children that have worked in this field and contributed to the living in households where one of the parents has a debate about child poverty, in Wales in particular. I disability. want to pay special tribute to Save the Children, the Such figures are not any great surprise, really. Poor Joseph Rowntree Foundation and the Bevan Foundation, children come from households where there are disabled which is a Welsh think-tank, and in particular to the people, from single parent households and from workless pamphlet written by Victoria Winckler that I shall use households. What are the consequences of this poverty? in this brief speech. In Welsh schools with a high number of low-income I am chair of the all-party children in Wales group. I families, 27 per cent. of children fail to get five GCSEs, am pleased that its vice-chair, the hon. Member for as opposed to 5 per cent. in more prosperous areas. The Blaenau Gwent (Mr. Davies), is also here. The group chances of poverty being perpetuated continue. We all has worked very closely with the voluntary agencies know the phenomenon of families where poverty is involved in tackling child poverty. The importance of passed from generation to generation. It is important the voluntary sector’s role has already been made clear. that we use every means at our disposal to try to tackle I want to emphasise that point. Before I came to this that link between one generation and the next. We need place, I worked for Barnardo’s; I worked with many to use every means to do that and the targets proposed children who were growing up in deprived circumstances. in the Bill are one such means. Having a Government who are trying to address those The Bill is certainly not narrow in the way that the issues is a huge step forward. Opposition have suggested. We have only to consider The all-party group recently visited a family centre in clause 8 and the measures involved to see that the Bill is Pontlottyn run by Action for Children. The centre is in trying to tackle poverty in its widest aspects. By failing the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for to support children from poor backgrounds at an early Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Mr. Havard). We saw at age, we risk not only building up huge financial bills for first hand the huge efforts made by voluntary organisations the future, but having to live with the disappointment of in helping young, vulnerable families, many living in children who do not fulfil their potential. Children poverty, to get some of the stability that the hon. being disappointed, and at a very early age, is one of the Member for South-West Devon (Mr. Streeter) mentioned. saddest situations we can see. It is important to recognise that this Government and I was very moved by the comments made by my hon. the Government in Wales have worked very closely with Friend the Member for Regent’s Park and Kensington, the voluntary sector, and that tackling the lack of North (Ms Buck) about children who cannot go to stability in some families is something that the voluntary birthday parties because they cannot afford to buy the sector does extremely well. One of the main reasons present and card. When we think about what many of why it can do so is that voluntary sector groups can get us have done with our own children—about how much closer to the families than statutory agencies can. It is it costs to ensure that they have a card and a present, well recognised, including by the statutory agencies, and about the fact that in some schools there may be a that that is one of the strengths of the voluntary sector. party every week, especially if there are 30 children in a It can be more innovative and can work with less threat class, with the whole class sometimes being invited—we to the families. That work is going on, and it has been can see what a huge financial burden is involved. It is encouraged by the Government. Tackling the lack of very distressing to think of a child’s being aware, deep stability that we know exists in many vulnerable families down, that they cannot take part in the activities that has been a big plank of the Government’s programme other children can take part in. That is a huge motivating throughout the UK and certainly in Wales. factor in respect of the strength of the Bill. It is the sort One of the interesting things that the all-party group of reason why the Bill is so important. found was that this group of young families—mainly There are many ways of tackling poverty. Children’s young mothers with children—felt that one of the barriers inability to take part in some activities can be tackled by that brought them into poverty was the lack of affordable trying to make provision more universally available. For transport in their area. That illustrates the fact that the example, we can provide free access to swimming and debate about poverty is multifaceted. We cannot restrict leisure centres. That has been the policy in Wales for it to one particular area, as it covers all areas. The other under-16s for some time, and I believe that it is being issue that those families spoke very strongly about was extended to the rest of the UK. the lack of affordable child care. On another important point, it is good that the Recent reports have suggested that 32 per cent. of Government have recognised how important it is to children in Wales—192,000 children—live in poverty. work on child poverty with the devolved countries by We all agree that, as has been said widely here today, for developing a strategy and working at a local level, any child to live in poverty is a slur on what we are particularly with local authorities. I know that some doing in this country. In addition, Save the Children aspects apply only to England, but I hope that they will says that more than one in 10 children live in severe also apply to Wales in the future. 641 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 642

Excluding child poverty by 2020 is a huge aim, which Ms Buck: The Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s critique we all support. However, we must also provide increased of the poverty strategy is that its heavy dependence on opportunities by making things more accessible, including work incentives, driven through the tax credits system, mainstream services. The Welsh Assembly Government is not sufficient to enable the Government to reach the have their own child poverty strategy and will introduce child poverty targets. That dependence is necessary but the Children and Families (Wales) Measure. It is vital insufficient, so the critique means almost the opposite that the poverty strategies of the UK and of the devolved of what the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness bodies are co-ordinated, and that links between them (Mr. Stuart) implies. are strong. Wales has taken particular initiatives to tackle poverty Julie Morgan: I agree, and I thank my hon. Friend for through education, with policies such as Flying Start her contribution. and Foundation Phase Wales, which is based on the I strongly welcome the child poverty commission and Scandinavian model of children learning to play at an was surprised that the Opposition criticised it. The early age. It has been phenomenally successful in the commission is important because it will unite the whole early years of its introduction. Wales has also provided UK in planning a strategy. It is important that the three for free breakfast clubs for any school that is happy to devolved Administrations appoint members and that introduce them. Again, that will add to the proposals in they are closely bound to it. The commission should the Bill. Those initiatives will have long-term benefits in operate as independently as possible. Some charities tackling poverty, but obviously we deal with many of have suggested that it should be able to commission its the key income-related issues, such as taxation and own research. I hope that the Financial Secretary will benefits and welfare-to-work, here in Westminster. It is comment on that when he replies to the debate. essential that UK and Welsh policies, and those of Ending child poverty must mean ending poverty for other devolved Administrations, together tackle child every child in the UK. Some of our strategies do not poverty throughout the UK. reach every child. For example, in Wales, some strategies Given that 60 per cent. of children in poverty in are based on locality, yet very poor children may live in Wales are in workless households, work on access and more prosperous areas. I want to refer to two disadvantaged encouragement is essential, and Department for Work groups, which have already been mentioned in the debate. and Pensions initiatives are important. The system of The first is the Gypsy and Traveller community, for providing advisers is excellent and I have had good whom there is not enough accommodation to bring up feedback, particularly from lone parents who have been all children safely and healthily. The health statistics for helped by the lone parent advisers. We must always Gypsy mothers and children are shocking. I want to remember that such work has to be accompanied by ensure that any debate about child poverty and any adequate, affordable child care and good public transport. targets will include children from that disadvantaged The Government have made many strides in child care, background. The second group is asylum seeker children, but a shortage of provision remains—certainly in Wales, who are treated differently from other children in this although the Flying Start initiative is helping to move country. They are very disadvantaged in many ways—for things along. I cannot yet say that there is universal, example, in income and access to services. Every child affordable child care. Like the Government, I see work is a child, and I hope that any poverty strategies that as the way out of poverty, but to give everybody work arise from the Bill will take account of those two opportunities, we must make proper child care provision. disadvantaged groups. Flexibility is also important. Work must be flexible so that parents and children benefit from being with each 6.56 pm other as well as having the income that work provides. John Howell (Henley) (Con): I echo what has been Above all, benefits and allowances should encourage, said about the importance of this subject, and the need not discourage parents’ employment. to tackle child poverty, but I have concerns about the Child poverty must therefore be tackled in many approach in the Bill. I shall start with the implications different ways, and it is great that the UK strategy, as for local government. The Bill lays a duty on local described in clause 8, ensures that the Secretary of State government to devise a local strategy to reduce or must promote employment, financial support, health, mitigate child poverty. My first disappointment is that education and social services, housing and social inclusion. although that hints at wider definitions of child poverty That gives the lie to the Opposition’s comments. in broader socio-economic terms, when one follows through its logic, it clearly boils down to the same income-related criteria as in the rest of the measure. Mr. Graham Stuart: Those are just warm words in My second disappointment is that the approach to clause 8. They are not a strategy. The Bill simply states local government is typical of the Government’s treatment that we must have good education and good conditions; of that sector in the past 12 years. This is yet another it covers a variety of matters, but in no way adds up to example of local government being Whitehall’s delivery a strategy. Indeed, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation arm, and of much of the initiative being taken away. has said that the policy on fighting poverty for the past We should not do that, because local councils’ ability 10 years is now exhausted. We need a new one, but it is to tackle child poverty more broadly gives initiatives not in the Bill. local colour. My county council fully understands what it means Julie Morgan: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his to break the cycle of deprivation, and what that cycle is. intervention, but I think that the Bill amounts to much It is prepared to deal with a combination of linked more than targets. factors, including employment, poor skills, low income, 643 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 644

[John Howell] out a bureaucratic model—but a model that contains no real idea of sustainability. I dread announcements poor housing, crime, poor health and poor access to being made about pilots when a Bill is introduced, services. It is already doing that in partnership with the because the usual approach is short-term pilots with county voluntary sector development partnership, the over-investment followed by long-term under-investment children and young people partnership, the health and in the roll-out, so that expectations are dashed. well-being partnership, the county safer communities I am not the only one who sees the importance of the partnership, the economy partnership, the environment shift that is taking place. Barnardo’s admits that the Bill partnership and the district local strategic partnership. “shifts significant responsibility for the eradication of child poverty What added value does the Bill give to the positive work onto local authorities and their partners.” that is already happening? It is concerned that in the absence of additional resources Is there not a risk that the Bill could divert attention from Government, the ability to drive progress will be from the carefully worked-out strategies that have already limited. Concern has also been expressed by the Child been put in place with other organisations to meet Poverty Action Group that there is no idea of how the Government targets? Many hon. Members may, like me Bill will work in practice. It, too, asks what will have to this morning, have received a brochure in the post be dropped from existing strategies in order to deliver illustrating a range of local government activity in the changes. connection with child support. It shows that not only is my county council taking a lead in seriously tackling The Bill represents the wrong way of working with the problem, but that there are examples throughout local government, and it echoes what we came across in the country of councils of all colours that have already debates on the Equality Bill. In the fifth sitting of the accepted that as a duty. Public Bill Committee, on 11 June, my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr. Harper) said: The one-dimensional approach to local government is now beyond a joke. It boils down to, “If in doubt, lay “if we put responsibilities on a range of authorities…we must another prescriptive duty on local government.” It is an think about not only the duties that we are placing on them, but the resources that we grant them. If we place a lot of responsibilities extremely cynical approach, because ultimately it puts on public authorities without the concomitant resources, we may the duty on others, so that if it fails, it is not the be setting up not only Ministers, but that significant list of Government’s fault. Local government does not need authorities, to fail.” more centrally driven strategies, assessments, detailed We argued that direct interference from central Government regulation and guidance from the Secretary of State. It in defining what should go into sustainable community is not surprising that one of the biggest factors prompting strategies, around which that Bill was based, was wrong. local councillors to stand down at the last county My hon. Friend said: council elections was that they felt that responsibility and accountability for shaping their own environment “It is for electors to make decisions when they elect different members of those authorities and it is for those authorities to had been taken away from them. make the decisions in debate, weighing up all the factors concerned. The Bill gives no idea about how the changes will be It is proper for that to be done at that level and not for Ministers resourced. I am extremely worried about its mention of to seek to put duties on them.”––[Official Report, Equality Public the possibility of creating pooled budgets, because that Bill Committee, 11 June 2009; c. 127.] rather suggests to me that it is simply about recycling I urge Ministers to acknowledge the good work of existing money. We have to ask what will have to go many local authorities across the country and embrace from the strategies already in place, because local a broader-based partnership approach to them. I urge government money is finite, and decreasing. them to back off from central Government planning My own council’s opinion is that the Bill will mean a and let local authorities choose the indicators and targets huge realignment of funding and services and a change most appropriate to their own area when they produce to orientation on a geographical basis, with a move their strategies. away from what it is currently doing. I believe that there I also have a couple of comments about targets. The is a much better way, which would genuinely bring out Bill seems to be an admission of failure, as we have the benefits of localism and move away from Government- already heard that by 2010 we will be 600,000 short of imposed targets and directives. There is no real sense in the target. The Financial Secretary is a man who likes to the Bill of partnership between local and central put a good spin on things, and I notice that he has Government, because ultimately there is no partnership talked about the glass being half full, or indeed two-thirds between the two, and there has been very little for the full, when it is really a third empty. That spin undermines past 12 years. We are a million miles away from the type the effect of the target. In the Select Committee proceedings of compact with local government that hon. Members that have been referred to, he admitted, in answer to from north of the border say the Scottish Government question 3, have. “given current economic circumstances, that it will now be hard to meet the 2010 target on time”. John Mason indicated assent. That is true, but it is interesting that he went on to say that nobody could have foreseen John Howell: The hon. Gentleman nods, and I well remember his comments on this subject in the Committee “the scale of the current economic crisis”. on the Equality Bill, on which we both served. That is believable only of someone who was blinded by the myth that they had abolished boom and bust. We can see from the list of partnerships that I read out, each of which has its own strategy, that we now I felt excited when I saw the aim in the Bill of have strategy overload. As my hon. Friend the Member ensuring for South-West Devon (Mr. Streeter) said, the Bill sets “that children…do not experience socio-economic disadvantage”, 645 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 646 because it could widen the scope of the Bill to encompass of the Bill. The problem is multifaceted; it needs a a range of non-income factors, which a number of hon. multifaceted solution, and the flexibility to ensure that Members have mentioned. That hope was dashed by we can make a real difference to the lives of children in the fact that the only measurable things in the Bill are poverty in this country. income targets. That distorts the policy agenda hugely, detracting from factors such as education, social work, good parenting and others that have been mentioned. It 7.10 pm is a one-dimensional approach. If there is a legislative target for income and not for other factors, there is Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): I support the Bill. As surely likely to be a bias in the allocation of scarce a number of hon. Members have said, child poverty resources. That, too, echoes debates on the Equality should concentrate all minds in the House, and more Bill, which followed the same line on socio-economic widely in politics. To their credit, the Government have, duty and the concept of disadvantage. down the years, successfully addressed child poverty through a number of measures, both budgetary and There are some anomalies in the calculation of income. other. It is appropriate that they see fit to try to reinforce The targets in the Bill all relate to the income of further their commitment on child poverty through qualifying households, rather than to the income of appropriate legislation, so I welcome the Bill. children. The modified OECD equivalence scale that the Government currently use, which has been mentioned, Unfortunately, I do not completely welcome the tone allocates a weight of 0.67 to a household’s first adult, taken by the Secretary of State in opening the debate. before housing cost income, a weight of 0.33 to subsequent An issue of such worth should not be the subject of as adults and children of 14 and over, and a weight of partisan an excursion as the one to which we were 0.2 to children under 14. If the Government transfer treated. Child poverty is a serious and compelling issue, income to a household of two parents and a young and cutting the debate down to the goading and needling child in pursuit of their targets, 83 per cent. of the of the Opposition is unworthy of the purposes claimed income transferred is therefore assumed to be spent by, for the Bill. and for the benefit of, the parents. Only 17 per cent. is Like other Members, I am interested in a number of assumed to be spent on the child. the issues provided for in the Bill. However, unlike some Such a transfer may be the only way of helping the of them, I would like the Bill to go further, and I shall child, and I am not criticising that method of approaching give an example. Several Members have referred to the child poverty, but we need to be clear about who the importance of the child poverty commission. The hon. chief beneficiaries of the targets will be. In reporting on Member for Cardiff, North (Julie Morgan) talked about what has been done for such households, the Government the commission ensuring that there was a combined should simultaneously report on what has happened to UK strategy, but I am not sure that the provisions in the poverty elsewhere, even if they do not have targets for it. Bill will allow the commission to do that adequately. Clause 7 sets up the commission. It is significant that Conventional income measures ignore income in kind, three of its six subsections, taking up four lines, deal such as the provision of free education and health care, with setting it up; the other three subsections, covering and the effect of indirect taxes. However, as we have 11 lines, deal with the possibility of the Secretary of heard, they include disability living allowance, even State winding it up. Provisions elsewhere in the Bill though that is arguably provided to accommodate the require Ministers in Northern Ireland, Scotland and extra costs of disability and should not be counted as Wales to have a role in appointing people to the commission, income. There is a great need to increase the take-up of and in providing advice and contributions, but there benefits and simplify the whole system. Both those seems to be no provision for them to have any role in matters were brought up in discussions with the Financial relation to any determination by a Secretary of State Secretary in the Work and Pensions Committee. to wind the commission up, which seems rather Comparisons have been made with the Climate Change strange. Act 2008. I shall not go into the merits of that Act, but Under clause 9 subsections (1) and (2), the commission there are two reasons why the procedure of setting is to provide advice at the request of the Secretary of long-term targets was more appropriate in that case. State, and according to a timetable set by the Secretary There was a need to provide long-term certainty about of State. In subsequent subsections of that clause, we the British Government’s intentions, to encourage private are told that the Secretary of State will sector development of costly technology and to strengthen the UK’s position in international negotiations. By contrast, “consult such children, or organisations working with or representing this Bill merely defines a framework for Government children, as the Secretary of State thinks fit”. reference. Whereas the Climate Change Act included I hope that the Government will clarify whether they new powers to help achieve the targets set out—on foresee the commission being able to engage in such emissions trading schemes, biofuels and household waste, contact and consideration; that would meet the point for instance—this Bill contains no new powers other that hon. Members made earlier about the need for the than those affecting internal Government processes. commission to recognise the worth of advice, and the My right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead relevance of the role of a number of charities and (Mrs. May) was being generous when she suggested her voluntary organisations, and some faith-based groups. new title for the Bill. If the title really reflected the I hope that the Government will clarify, in the winding-up contents, it would be “A Bill to set targets relating to the speech tonight and certainly in Committee and on eradication of poverty in households with children, and Report, whether the provisions that address aspects of to make other provisions about child poverty.” That devolved responsibility will be fine-tuned, so that we would be a far more accurate title, even if it tripped off end up with strategies that are compatible, complementary the tongue less easily; it reflects the bureaucratic nature and coherent. At the moment, there are provisions in 647 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 648

[Mark Durkan] Clause 8(5) refers to the UK strategy and to what the Secretary of State must consider; again, it is the Secretary clauses 10 and 11 on the Scottish and Northern Ireland of State who is to consider the measures. The provisions strategies respectively. Clause 11 says that strategies in do not, as hon. Members have suggested, bind the Northern Ireland Cabinet or Cabinet Sub-Committees to addressing that “may not include proposals that relate to excepted or reserved range of measures. matters, within the meaning of the Northern Ireland Act 1998.” Mr. Graham Stuart: I wonder whether the hon. Clause 10 contains a similar provision relating to the Gentleman is as confused as I am by the Bill. My relevant Scottish Act. I can understand what is meant, understanding was that the Secretary of State for Children, but we need to ensure that strategies produced by the Schools and Families headed up the whole area of devolved authorities can make proper and appropriate children, and that he—or possibly she, in future—would reference to UK Government measures and initiatives co-ordinate such matters, yet the Secretary of State for that are relevant. In quite a number of policy areas, we Work and Pensions is leading on the Bill. That perhaps are in a twilight zone between devolved responsibility suggests that the approach will not be as holistic as one and reserved or excepted matters. might have hoped. Clause 8(5) says: Mark Durkan: I accept the hon. Gentleman’s point. “In preparing a UK strategy, the Secretary of State must consider what (if any) measures ought to be taken in each of the The question arises: under the Bill, where does the following areas— Secretary of State’s responsibility lie, not just in the Government’s intention, but in the intention of any (a) the promotion and facilitation of the employment of parents or of the development of the skills of parents, future Government? That is an issue against which we have to test the worth and strength of the Bill. (b) the provision of financial support for children and parents, If we are to get the coherent, joined-up approach that (c) health, education and social services, and Ministers are clearly saying that they want to achieve, (d) housing, the built or natural environment and the promotion the Bill will need tweaking and fine-tuning in a number of social inclusion.” of respects. It is significant that many of this Government’s In each of those areas, we can identify where there are achievements on child poverty relate strongly to budgetary clear devolved remits, but we can also identify where measures that were taken in various Budgets and through there are significant UK Government influences, contexts the Treasury. It is also significant that, while the Bill and parameters. In a sense, if we are honest, there are a requires an annual statement to be made by the Secretary number of matters that are nominally in the area of of State, it contains no obligation for Budgets or devolved responsibility, but on which the devolved Assembly comprehensive spending reviews directly and specifically in Northern Ireland is basically engaged in making to address the issue of child poverty. karaoke legislation. The Assembly often has to frame It should be noted that, just this year, the Treasury its legislation according to limits, constraints and Select Committee regretted the fact that neither the frameworks determined here in Westminster and Whitehall. pre-Budget report last autumn nor the Budget statement We need to ensure that the Bill does not unduly cramp this year specifically addressed the issue of child poverty. the style of the devolved authorities or their initiative in The Committee noted that that was a significant omission, coming forward with realistic relevant strategies honestly even allowing for all the other pressures and distractions set in the context in which Administrations and societies that exist. Before we can convince ourselves that we are finds themselves. passing a Bill that will actually mean something in As well as the numerous references in the Bill to the terms of committing the Government and this House role of the devolved authorities, there are, as a number to eradicating child poverty, we must acknowledge that of hon. Members have said, significant references to the Bill is silent on the matter of budgetary statements. local authorities, specifically in England and Wales. In The Chancellor of the Exchequer is obliged to produce Northern Ireland there is change in local government; many statements and reports on many issues that set the new councils there will have some responsibilities out many different factors and assumptions, and it for community planning and general well-being. Obviously, seems odd that we should pass a Child Poverty Bill that I hope that the omission of any reference to local would allow a Chancellor to produce significant Budget government in Northern Ireland does not mean that statements without at least addressing issues of child local councils in Northern Ireland will be precluded, poverty and identifying the terms and assumptions under the legislation, from making contributions to the involved. task of eradicating child poverty. Ms Keeble: As a member of the Treasury Select It is significant that while there are copious references Committee, may I say that although no specific measures to local authorities and various partnerships that might were announced in the most recent statement, one of be involved, and while there are many references to the most significant measures to tackle child poverty—which devolved authorities, the only references to Whitehall is about increasing housing benefit and council tax are to the Secretary of State—and, it seems, to just the benefit—will come into effect this autumn, and that it one Secretary of State. We are left with the question: was pre-announced quite some time ago? will this legislation be binding everywhere in the country, except across Whitehall? The hon. Member for Copeland Mark Durkan: I fully accept that point. Nevertheless, (Mr. Reed) made the point that men and women in the Treasury Committee clearly lamented the fact that Whitehall do not experience or meet child poverty every there were no references to child poverty in the pre-Budget day, but they very much set the context in which child report or the Budget statement. I shall not read out the poverty exists and continues, and where it can be alleviated entire quote from the Committee, but it called on the and, hopefully, eradicated. Government to address that matter in the future. 649 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 650

The proposal to eradicate child poverty raises the Clause 15 gives serious cause for concern in relation question of what we mean by eradication. Other hon. to a future Government being able to avoid some of the Members have already said that the Government have requirements in the Bill. Its provisions on economic and set a target that seems to suggest that a poverty rate of fiscal circumstances could be played like a joker by any anything below one in 10 could count as eradication. future Government who wanted to say, “No, there are Such a percentage in this House would equate to measures that we cannot consider because the prevailing 64 Members, but I see an Opposition party here with economic and fiscal circumstances mean that we cannot more than 60 Members that does not regard itself as proceed or act on child poverty.” People will not accept eradicated. Under 10 per cent. hardly counts as eradication. such excuses and slippage. They will identify such slippage Regrettably, that proposal is an example of the as slipperiness. If they see us building a get-out clause Government and the Department for Work and Pensions into the Bill, they will think that it can be cited, by resiling from an understanding that they gave in 2003 virtue of other prevailing circumstances, as a way by on eradicating child poverty. Their document, “Measuring which the provisions will not make as robust a commitment Child Poverty” stated: to eradicating child poverty as they need to. “Success in eradicating poverty could, then, be interpreted as I support the commitment to eradicating child poverty having a material deprivation child poverty rate that approached by 2020. In Ireland, however, my party has strongly zero and being among the best in Europe on relative low incomes”. argued that 2016—the 100th anniversary of the However, what we are legislating for here falls short of proclamation of Irish independence and of the Republic, that standard set by the DWP, and I hope that the which set out the key element of cherishing all the Department and the Government will return to the children of the nation equally—should have been the prospectus that they were offering in 2003. I hope that date by which we should have eradicated child poverty the Bill can be improved as it continues its passage there. Obviously that has not happened, however. This through the House. Government have made huge strides on this issue. Yes, Another way in which we could usefully improve there have been some blips and slips in recent years, and people’s understanding of the purpose of the Bill is to we understand the circumstances involved, but we welcome show real parliamentary intent. At a time when the the fact that the Government are showing the resolve reputation of Parliament is pretty low and when politics and determination to legislate for this. I hope, however, is not held in the highest esteem, if we are going to that they will recognise that the Bill can, and must, be legislate on child poverty, let us set down the clear improved as it proceeds. principles that we as a Parliament want to address. The commission envisaged in the Bill will clearly have an 7.28 pm important role, as will the Secretary of State, in providing reports to Parliament, but perhaps we in this House—or John Barrett (Edinburgh, West) (LD): It is a great a Joint Committee of both Houses of Parliament—should pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark actively monitor the progress of the provisions. We Durkan). He said that this should not be a partisan should be tracking and backing the targets, and testing debate. Apart from some of the usual political banter them, rather than simply waiting to pounce on the earlier in the day, I think that Members on both sides of annual reports from the Secretary of State. the House have treated this as a serious issue on which we want to move forward. Unfortunately, however, the Perhaps such a Committee could follow the style of Bill is very much about setting targets rather than the Joint Committee on Human Rights—not meeting delivering an end to child poverty. as often as a regular Select Committee—in probing and testing some of these issues. That could include highlighting A few Members have talked about the great progress good practice, because we shall be imposing a number that has already been made, but we are where we are, of obligations on central and local government, and on and, in regard to where we stand in Europe, that is not a devolved Government. If we are obliging them to report, great place to be. My hon. Friend the Member for we, as the Parliament that created the legislation, should Northavon (Steve Webb) mentioned that child poverty at least pick up the information in order to establish rates in the UK were below those of Poland, Italy and best practice and to reinforce and support the people Romania. I do not have his encyclopaedic knowledge— who are delivering on the targets. which he gained from working for the Institute for Fiscal Studies for nine years—but I think that it is Mr. Graham Stuart: I wonder whether the public worth putting on record which European countries we would have more confidence in the measures if the are behind in this regard. We are behind Denmark, commission were to report to Parliament rather than to Finland, Norway, Sweden, Cyprus, Iceland, Slovenia, the Secretary of State. Perhaps the Select Committee Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, France, the Czech could play a role in the appointment of the chairman of Republic, Slovakia, Belgium, Estonia, Malta, Hungary, the commission. If Parliament were to hold the Secretary Ireland, Latvia, Luxembourg, Portugal, Lithuania, Greece of State to account, people might have more faith that and Spain. So, when people say that we have made great the outcomes could be achieved. strides in years gone by, we must remember that we are still not where we want to be. Mark Durkan: I fully accept the hon. Gentleman’s I see pockets of poverty in my constituency, which is point, which reinforces the one that I was making. generally viewed, like those of many other Members, as People would value Parliament making serious a relatively wealthy one. It is sad to say that in my eight commitments about what it was going to undertake, years as a Member, nobody has ever come to my rather than our imposing what appear to be obligations surgery to ask about child poverty. People come along on central Government that leave a lot of room for to say that they have problems with their benefits, tax central Government to pass them down to others while credits or whatever, but nobody has told me, “You must absconding from them themselves. deal with the issues of child poverty”. It is the same 651 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 652

[John Barrett] people in the UK were living on the breadline. There is no lack of wealth in this country: if only we could get it with housing problems in that very few come along to right—whether it be through legislation, education, say, “Housing is a major problem and we want to see employment, transport, housing or a whole range of Parliament do something to sort out the wider problem.” other issues—we could tackle the poverty that still As I have said, the Bill deals with targets, but there is exists in too many pockets of the UK. a great shortage of specific detail and no specific strategy. A number of provisions in the Bill detail the role of As the hon. Member for South-West Devon (Mr. Streeter) local authorities and devolved Governments and said, it is very easy to set targets for issues such as the Assemblies. I shall raise one issue, on which I expect the millennium development goals. We all heard pledges hon. Member for Glasgow, East (John Mason) to strike made when the G8 met at Gleneagles a number of years back. Problems can be identified at the UK level, as ago. Earlier this year, the G8 met again in Italy and they were some years ago when the UK Government some of those who had made significant pledges at specified that about £300 million needed to be spent in Gleneagles were there calling for action to happen, but support of disabled children. That went through the those very same people had not delivered on their own Barnett formula, but when £34 million went to the pledges. We must expect promises to be kept generally, Scottish Government, the money was not spent on that but for those suffering from poverty, those promises can purpose. It was spent on other issues, not on the specific be the very heart of their lives. need identified by the UK Government. It is the same People often say that it is not just a question of with child poverty.There are clear issues that run UK-wide, money or cash in pockets, as there are many other but when responsibilities are passed to local authorities, aspects to living in poverty. One particular issue that I Governments and Assemblies, it is sometimes a case of want to highlight today is that Government targets on passing the buck, while at other times those bodies just child poverty will never be achieved without a specific do not deliver. I believe that the responsibility lies at focus on disability. I am going to come back to that. the UK level to see that child poverty is tackled at the There are a wide range of issues involved, but I shall try UK level. not to repeat those previously mentioned. I am now going to focus specifically on child poverty As a number of Members have said, education also in relation to disability. Unless the Bill is disabled-aware, has a key role in pulling people out of poverty. There the significant costs associated with living with a disabled are two spirals that work with education—an upward child for families and parents who are sometimes themselves and a downward spiral. People who have good jobs and disabled will not be understood. So many factors work a good income often see their children having a good together that result in children ending up in poverty. It education. Those children will come out of school, is well known that those who are disabled are less likely secure a good job and carry on in that upward spiral. At to be in work, but more likely to want to work, than the same time, the children who grow up in poverty their able-bodied counterparts. A household with disabled often suffer from a poorer education; they will end up in children will end up with higher weekly running costs— lower-paid jobs and the downward spiral will continue often higher transport costs, sometimes higher food for them. costs because of specific diets that are required and a Although we have legislation before us—I welcome whole range of other costs. At the same time, however, the fact of this Bill—it will not end child poverty. I their income is likely to be lower. accept that some Members care less than others about A few facts are worth reading into the record. One in poverty, but I would like to think that everybody cared three of all children living in poverty have at least one about poverty, even though they might not have suffered disabled parent. A family with one disabled parent is from it themselves. I do not believe that someone has to 30 per cent. more likely to be in poverty, and 700,000 rob a bank to know that doing so is wrong. Equally, we children with a disabled parent are living in poverty. do not have to be poor in order to feel the pain of those Families with disabled children are more than 50 per who are living in deep poverty. cent. more likely to be in debt, while 16 per cent. of We see in our surgeries how issues have developed mothers with disabled children work in comparison over the years. On the good side, child poverty will be at with 62 per cent. of mothers with non-disabled children. the heart of every party’s manifesto in the run-up to the As my hon. Friend the Member for Northavon said, next general election, which is 12 months away. We have there is often a real disparity when extra income or moved on, because child poverty did not merit a mention benefits are taken into account. Those increases do not at all in the Labour party’s 1997 manifesto. It was a result in those families being better off; they are simply couple of years later before child poverty came up on there to deal with the increased costs that the families the agenda and targets were set, only some of which have to deal with. The Government often respond by have been met. The Government have achieved some saying that they target means-tested benefits to those positive things—tax credits, for example, but there are who are the poorest of the poor, but the poorest of the both good and bad sides to them. There have been poor are not necessarily those entitled to and receiving errors and reclaims that have caused great confusion. benefits. The real poorest of the poor—this is where Even worse for people, we are now in a recession, poverty is a real problem—are those who are entitled with increasing unemployment. Although the Secretary to, but do not receive, those benefits. As I said to the of State announced today a further £10 million to Secretary of State earlier, £10 billion of means-tested tackle poverty, we have seen tens of billions of pounds benefits went unclaimed this year. pumped into the banking system to ensure that it can carry on working. As we heard in an announcement last Mr. Graham Stuart: The hon. Gentleman is making a week, several thousand bankers received bonuses in powerful speech. May I recommend to him “Empowering excess of £500,000 each, at the same time as many Society”, which was launched today by the Conservative 653 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 654 disability group? Its first key idea is that we need to should not ignore the progress that has been made. The bring in a single assessment for people with disabilities Bill will move matters forward, tackling not just the to enable them to access benefits. These people are financial aspects of poverty, but the other aspects to often sent from pillar to post under the current system which Members have referred. I want to focus on some and they often end up compromising for the sake of of those other aspects, and make some proposals to speed—with a reduction in their benefits. What we need strengthen the Bill. to do is radically change that system so that disabled Targeted measures, rather than blanket solutions such people can get the support they deserve. as general disbursal through child benefit, are necessary to target intractable, hard-core poverty. By and large, John Barrett: I take the hon. Gentleman’s point. We we know which families are most at risk of poverty and often hear, particularly from parents with disabled children, where they are. As several Members have said, first, that it is an onerous enough task just to deal with the they are the families in which no one works. However, child and the disability, as it involves dealing with the statistics also highlight the risk factors of lone mental anguish as well as the physical disability. Having parenthood, disability, unemployment in two-parent a disabled child can be the catalyst for family breakdown, households or marginal employment in two-parent which often leads to further social problems. To follow households. Those are the biggest risk factors for children up the hon. Gentleman’s point, parents then have to to live in poverty and, according to Every Child Matters, spend hours and hours going from helpline to helpline for poor outcomes for children. Poor families can also and from Government Departments to local authority be identified by the state benefits they receive, especially departments and social services, while at the same time income support, jobseeker’s allowance and housing benefit, having to deal with doctor and hospital appointments. with disability benefits a bit further down the scale. One thing I did to help with this problem at the constituency We also know where poor families live, and that has level was to put together a pack of information for changed over time in an interesting way. In 1970, poor parents of disabled children. The idea was that in their families were most likely to be renting private property, quiet moments, perhaps between their doctor and hospital with only a third in social housing. By 2000, the figures appointments, they could see at a glance all the help and were almost exactly reversed, with poor people three support that was available to them. Under the current times more likely to be social housing tenants. Now, the system, whatever the Government’s failings, a lot of figures have shifted again. The biggest proportion of help and support is available, but people often do not poor families are tenants of the state, renting social know how to access it, or do not even know it exists. housing split between council housing and housing The point is therefore valid, and is not a party political association properties. However, the next biggest category one: all parties in the House would like benefits and of poor people live in owner-occupied housing. The size support to be received by those who need them most. of that category might increase as a result of the current I will put a couple more statistics on the record: recession, and the Government might need policy parents who have a disabled child are two and a half instruments to tackle it. times more likely not to work more than 16 hours a week; and 10 per cent. of families with disabled children Steve Webb: The hon. Lady refers to the important care for more than one disabled child. Although I role of housing in poverty. She will know that the welcome the Bill, and I leave the exploration of the fine definition in the Bill explicitly does not take account of details to the encyclopaedic mind of my hon. Friend housing costs. Given that housing costs might partly the Member for Northavon, Members on both sides reflect quality, but also real inflation, which would in of the House can work together in Committee to improve turn affect real living standards, is it not at least a the legislation. In 2009, child poverty ought to be history. concern that such a measure is wholly excluded? Sadly it is not. Ms Keeble: I was about to refer to that issue, because housing is one of my main concerns. Before housing 7.41 pm costs, 19 per cent. of children live in poverty, but after Ms Sally Keeble (Northampton, North) (Lab): I am housing costs that figure rises to 27 per cent. My hon. pleased to speak on this important Bill. A number of Friend the Member for Regent’s Park and Kensington, Opposition Members, especially the hon. Member for North (Ms Buck) referred to London, and my right Henley (John Howell), said that the Bill was an example hon. Friend the Financial Secretary to the Treasury will of interference from central Government, who were be interested in the figures, as his constituency is also constraining and placing more duties on local government. in inner London: after housing costs, 44 per cent. of That misses the point of the Bill, as, broadly, it sets out children in London are in poverty, but before housing a commitment to end child poverty, with which all costs that figure is about 27 per cent., which is in line Members have said they agree. The Bill sets out some with other parts of the country. High housing costs, targets—although not enough—to specify poverty, but especially in London, cause poverty. The cost of housing leaves it to local agencies to deliver strategies to tackle is a significant factor in the poverty of families. Therefore, poverty, which is right. Everyone who has worked on by increasing housing benefit this autumn, the Government poverty understands that it requires local solutions and are putting money in exactly the right place. However, people and agencies to get into areas of intractable, they might also have to look closely at the impact of the hard-core poverty, using different strategies to tackle it cost of home ownership on low-income families and on and considering its specific causes in those areas. child poverty as a result of the recession. The Bill is well suited to take forward the fight The poor are also likely to be in bad-quality, overcrowded against poverty. Eradicating child poverty is one of the housing. According to Shelter, 1 million children are in great goals of this Government. I concede that we will overcrowded housing, and many more live in homes miss the 2010 target, which I very much regret, but we that are below the decency standard. In my constituency, 655 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 656

[Ms Keeble] It has been said that families with children should not be placed in bed-and-breakfast accommodation, but the number of council properties that fall below the that is only guidance: it does not have the force of decency standard has risen from 2,698 in 2006 to 4,623 law. The standards relating to overcrowding are awful. in 2008—an increase from 21 to 37 per cent. That does They were set in 1935, and still provide—except in not take into account the problems with families who some pathfinder areas—that two adults, two children are squeezed into unsatisfactory privately rented property, and a baby aged under one can be housed in a or who struggle to maintain low-cost private ownership. one-bedroom flat. I shall set out proposals to strengthen the Bill with I am sure that other Members can give examples regard to housing. from their constituencies, but I want to give three The Bill also needs to be strengthened in relation to particularly bad examples from my area, which illustrate crime, as the right hon. Member for Maidenhead the need for housing safeguards for poor families. One (Mrs. May) suggested. The link between vulnerability of the worst that I have encountered involves a young and crime is clearly demonstrated in the report by the family. Both parents are unemployed, and the mother Prison Reform Trust setting out the proportion of children has only just turned 21. They live in a small first-floor and young people in custody who have been affected by two-bedroom flat with four children, the eldest just family breakdown, special needs and poor educational three years old and the youngest newborn. The parents achievement. The Government are studying the origins have had a difficult time given their involvement with of that vicious circle in the early years of young people the criminal justice system, depression, poor health and who become offenders, for whom outcomes are confusion over their benefits, which resulted in their disproportionately in poverty. Although the Bill refers living on child benefit for about four months before the to police authorities and youth offending teams as birth of their fourth baby. A council official who visited partner authorities, it does not give specific attention to after I complained about the family’s overcrowding said issues in relation to the criminal justice system and that there was no problem, because two of the children poverty, and the implications for child poverty. I would could sleep in the combined living room and kitchen. have expected such attention to be given in clause 8 on Given the safety risks involved in leaving two small strategies. children all night in a room with all those household However, it is more important for the Bill to be appliances, that was extraordinary. strengthened in relation to housing. Every Child Matters, The other example involved a grandmother, mother in which the Government’s children’s policy is rooted, and six children living in a four-bedroom house. They recognised homelessness as the second biggest risk factor complained that the house was crowded, and that fixtures for children—second only to low income and parental and fittings were breaking. When I arrived there, I unemployment in determining a child’s success in life. discovered that the grandmother had one small bedroom, Housing authorities were made part of safeguarding the mother had another, the three boys shared one arrangements, and protocols were issued for joint working, bedroom, and the three girls shared another. The real although those were weakly enforced. Housing is mentioned problem was that the eldest boy was autistic. That as a factor in the Bill, but only in passing in relation to returns us to the disability issue. I hope the hon. Member strategies. There are no targets for housing and no for Northavon (Steve Webb) agrees that we should pay indication as to what constitutes adequate housing for a attention to conditions involving behavioural as well as child. In the suite of factors constituting material physical disabilities. The boy crashed around the house deprivation, only one relates to housing, which shows a a lot, breaking fixtures including all the doors. More to weakness in the thinking behind the Bill. The one the point, he spent most of his time pacing up and housing question is whether there are enough bedrooms down the family’s only living room. for every child aged 10 years or over and of a different gender to have a room of their own. According to the One of the material deprivation indicators listed in Government’s figures, 27 per cent. of those in the lowest the Bill is that children are not able to have friends decile say that they want but cannot afford that, although around for tea or a snack once a fortnight. According to most of the rest—70 per cent.—already have it. Given the Government, as many as 61 per cent. of children in the figures for overcrowding, that surprises me. I wonder the lowest family-income quintile are able to do that. what the response would be if those children were then Children can be very cruel about special needs. How on asked whether they had a room of their own only earth could a child feel confident about bringing a because their parents slept on the floor in the sitting friend home from school to tea if an autistic older room. brother was pacing up and down the family’s only living All the information from every source suggests that room, and if the child had to share a bedroom with two inadequate and overcrowded housing plays a major role siblings? How could a child get homework done, or in the vicious circle that is child poverty. It contributes enjoy any peace or privacy? to poor health—we have seen a 25 per cent. increase in A third and perhaps even more shocking case is that ill health among poorly housed children—and it leads of a 19-year-old woman looking after her two young to dysfunctions in families. Homelessness leads to three nephews and niece after the children’s mother—her to four times the number of children with mental health sister, a drug addict—had abandoned them. The three problems. It means that children have nowhere to do children and their aunt, along with the children’s dog, their homework. Homeless children miss an estimated were living in a one-bedroom flat. This remarkable quarter of their schooling, and 50 per cent. of young young woman said that what really caused her problems offenders have experienced homelessness. was the inappropriate behaviour of the girl because of I believe that, ultimately, the state is not giving children what she had been exposed to, and that the boy had also enough rights to proper housing. Families with children been exposed to behaviour that was completely unsuitable can qualify as homeless, but their rights are circumscribed. for such a young child. The fact that they were short of 657 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 658 money was, in a sense, the least of the children’s worries. should focus on that in the coming months. We have There is poverty in kind as well as in cash. A number of also heard about the poverty of opportunity and ambition, Members have made that point, although I feel that and about the support that we should give children and specific targets should be set in the Bill. young people to encourage them to want to get on. It is I shall table amendments on the subject of housing. I so easy to fall into the poverty trap, not just in financial shall propose a target for clause 3 that, ideally, would be terms but in terms of having no ambition and not radical, demanding that there should be no bed-and- wanting to change. breakfast provision for children, that all children should When it comes to education, one of the major problems have rooms of their own and that every child should is sex education. We see many parents aged 12 or 13. We have a home with central heating and access to a safe have forgotten about the education that is needed in outdoor play area; but that might be too much to ask. telling children about the problems of having a family Perhaps a more reasonable target is that every family at such a young age. with at least one child normally living with them should There is another problem on which I think all have a living room—a room that does not count as a Departments need to work together. In other Bills, the bedroom, but in which the family can live and watch Government have proposed fining families if children television, the children can do their homework, and fail to attend school. Which families would that affect there is enough space for a table around which they can the most? It would tend to be those living below the sit and have a meal together. Another requirement poverty line. We have heard that £15,000 tends to be the would be that the spatial needs of children with special average annual income, and that anything below that is needs—this raises another point made by the hon. seen to be poverty level. In my constituency, a significant Gentleman—including behavioural difficulties, should number of people live on real incomes of well below be taken into account in the assessment of families’ £15,000 a year. Although there is a reliance on benefits, housing needs. If a child has behavioural difficulties, the worry is that those benefits can be taken away at the lives of its siblings should not be turned upside any time. down because of a lack of space in which to cater for its needs. Every child should have housing of a decent I have another concern about benefits and the benefits standard. As I have said, in Northampton 37.7 per cent. structure: where does the money end up? Does it end up of council housing is not decent. benefiting the child? Is it targeted within the family to look after the children? Where is it spent, and how is it One of my predecessors, Margaret Bondfield, who spent? Again, it comes back to education and helping was Member of Parliament for Northampton in 1923, families to understand that the money needs to be used campaigned on women’s employment and child poverty in the right way. issues. The Government’s target is to end child poverty by 2020, which, unfortunately, is 100 years too late for Another issue that has not been touched on is the role my predecessor. With or without the improvements that of grandparents and the wider family. In my constituency, I have suggested, however, the Bill will make a big we have a huge problem of children having children and contribution to—at long last—the achievement of her very young people being caught in the family trap. The goal, and I thoroughly support it. role of grandparents has been undermined in so many ways. The chances of grandparents to look after the children have been undermined. Their voices need to 7.56 pm be heard. Mr. Dai Davies (Blaenau Gwent) (Ind): Like many Constituencies such as mine have suffered over the others who have spoken, I welcome the Bill and the past 30 years from the loss of traditional industries and continuing forecast for the eradication of child poverty. manufacturing. I urge the Minister to ask the Prime Let me touch on a few issues that, although they have Minister for sight of a report called “The Other Half of already been raised, I consider to be important enough Britain” that was produced by the Alliance, which is to mention again. First, there is the poverty of love. We primarily made up of local authorities from areas of the have heard about the importance of marriage and families country that have suffered from the loss of traditional and about marriage break-up and its effect on children, industries and therefore have a huge need for investment. but one of the major issues that I regularly encounter in I sent a copy of the report to the Prime Minister some my constituency is that of families who experience 12 months ago. If he has not got it, I can provide antisocial behaviour problems with their children. Such another one. families need one-to-one assistance—focused help—but We heard again about partnership working by the at present local authorities are finding it difficult to voluntary and statutory sectors, but I worry that in provide it. We have heard about the poverty of health, some respects the statutory sector sees the voluntary and, from the hon. Member for Northampton, North sector as a threat. Instead of allowing it to do the job it (Ms Keeble), about poor housing, which is a huge does well, it tends to resent the interference, as it sees it problem in my constituency. It is a former mining sometimes, from the voluntary sector. There is a huge constituency containing many terraced houses, and the task to be performed throughout the country in encouraging loss of housing grants and inability to make repayments increased partnership working. is a major problem. I was pleased, proud and privileged to be part of the Disability has been mentioned, and another health “end child poverty” rally that was held in London issue, affecting both children and their parents, is that earlier this year. I was lucky enough to have a number of of mental health. There is huge pressure on children my constituents alongside me and to be one of the nowadays. There is stress and anxiety, not just in the 10,000 people in Trafalgar square. It showed again that home but in the community. We tend to take our eye off the focus on ending child poverty goes much wider than the ball when it comes to mental health, and I think we this place. 659 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 660

[Mr. Dai Davies] this area. I would like to make my speech a tribute to someone who has not yet, as far as I know—I was out The Bill concentrates quite a lot on targets and of the Chamber for a short time—been mentioned in statistics. I worry about targets and statistics. We can the debate and should be mentioned. That is the late make statistics say anything we like. If targets are not Peter Townsend, who passed away a couple of months realistic, they work as a disincentive to people to achieve; ago. Peter was a friend. He was also a constituent in his we need targets that can be achieved. That is a problem later years and he was married to Baroness Corston. with the Bill. If one person has done more than anyone else to raise A promise of delivery in terms of ending child poverty the issue of child poverty in this country, that person is one thing, but just passing a Bill through the House was Peter Townsend. I have a suggestion. It may be an will not achieve that. I am seeing services being cut in informal one, but I hope that, as a mark of respect to my constituency. I urge the Government to take the Peter Townsend, the commission will be called the Peter advice of the latest report from the House of Lords on Townsend child poverty commission. I understand that the Barnett formula. It stated clearly, and so has Lord that may be difficult in terms of how these things work Barnett, that the formula needs to be reviewed. The but, as many will know, Peter’s work led to the setting Welsh Assembly and the Welsh Assembly Government up of the Child Poverty Action Group and set in have carried out their own review, which comes to the motion much of the research work not just in this same conclusions. The distribution of wealth across the country but in the third world. He talked about the country should have a needs base within it; otherwise importance of the social security system in the developing areas such as mine will find it very difficult to come out world, where there are so many other issues to deal of the difficult times that we are in now and to recover with—education, health, peace, trying to provide water— from previous difficult times. and he explained graphically why looking after the most We are losing community facilities. My other worry is vulnerable in the developing world is so important. I that the first things to be cut by a local authority in hope that we can bring that epitaph to this country. I times of austerity tend to be things that are seen as the am sure that he would be proud that we are legislating flowery bits, the add-ons: community centres; places in this field now. where young people can meet, be occupied and do I would like to thank the Government. The Bill things; and youth workers. There needs to be ring-fenced Committee team has met on a couple of occasions with funding from central Government to local government, the all-party group on poverty. I am an officer of that which must be told “That is what the funding must be group. It is genuinely all-party. The team met and spent on”, otherwise it will be spent on many other discussed with us what was in the Bill and what we services. might like in the Bill. More than anything, it explained We in Wales were fortunate enough to be the first the structure and the thinking behind the Bill. Perhaps country in the UK to have a commissioner appointed no one else will mention it, but there are some interesting for children. I know that that idea has now spread findings in the consultation that was carried out—I across the country. The influence of the commissioner know what others have said about the dirty word that has been significant in making many improvements in “consultation” has become—and I hope that it will our areas. It is wonderful to come up with plans, strategies inform the Committee stage. As we take evidence from and initiatives but the problem is that, if the funding is the various organisations, perhaps we can use that to not provided to take them forward, we will lose the plot. improve the Bill still further. Again, to disincentivise people and to communicate I pay credit to the End Child Poverty coalition. This things to people and then not deliver is the worse thing is not the Government’s Bill per se, because it is owned one can do. There is a huge difference between consultation by a range of organisations. Although some aspersions and negotiation. If we consult and then fail to deliver, have been cast about how the legislation has been people will walk away. approached, it is important to say that there is overwhelming Over the past 30 or 40 years, we as a nation have support for the attempt to abolish—if that is the Prime struggled to understand the poverty issue not just in Minister’s word—child poverty. I hope that that can terms of children—as we heard earlier, we have struggled genuinely go across the House, because it has certainly to understand it in terms of older people as well. We gone across those organisations. will be judged on how we provide for our senior citizens Several years ago I introduced a ten-minute rule Bill, and our young people, who are the future of this which looked at anti-poverty measures and how we country and are so important to us. should target them to try to eradicate poverty in the There is more than enough in this country and the round. I thought that it was a largely consensual Bill, world for people’s needs, but as we have seen over recent but it was opposed by the late Eric Forth—not so great months, through the bonuses paid to bankers and the in my eyes in this respect. However, I thought that the financial services collapse, there will never be enough official Opposition had moved on from their view that for people’s greed. I hope that the Government, through poverty did not matter. I was somewhat taken aback by the Bill, will concentrate on those who need help the speech of the right hon. Member for Maidenhead the most. (Mrs. May), which took us back almost to thinking that her party had learned nothing and forgotten nothing, 8.5 pm but I was uplifted by the contribution made by the hon. Member for South-West Devon (Mr. Streeter), who is Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op): I am delighted an acknowledged expert in this area. I hope that what to take part in this Second Reading debate and it is a he had to say reflects the tenor of the official Opposition’s pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent approach to this debate, rather than what we heard (Mr. Davies), who clearly has considerable expertise in from their spokesperson. 661 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 662

I was pleased that the Church of England mentioned annual debate on this issue so we can see the progress in its submission William Temple, whom I consider to that has been made, and I hope that that debate will be be the greatest Archbishop of Canterbury, mainly because subject to some form of affirmation at the end so that he was a Christian socialist—alongside R.H. Tawney. It we do genuinely test whether progress is being made. is, of course, a long-held view of the Christian Church Because there are different Departments involved, we in this country that we must attack poverty, and particularly have to have a meaningful structure that covers the child poverty. Department for Work and Pensions, the Department We must also take into account the issue of the for Children, Schools and Families, the Treasury and demonstration of poverty. Poverty is, of course, all too the devolved Departments to make sure there is proper apparent in our urban areas and we must bear down on joined-up thinking in how we scrutinise what the that, but poverty exists in all areas of our society, and Government are doing. rural poverty has not been mentioned very much. I wish this was apocryphal, but I still remember that children Mr. Graham Stuart: As always, the hon. Gentleman who received free school meals were put on a separate is making a thoughtful contribution. Does he think a table because that was the way it was always done. Select Committee might be a better means of holding Although I hope that is now a thing of the past, even the Government to account than an annual debate, even the fact that until comparatively recently we used free if that were granted—Ministers usually oppose putting school meals, and the definition thereof, as a measure of that into legislation? Such a debate may not have the poverty shows how little we have moved on in some same effect as perhaps bringing a number of relevant respects, because anyone who knows anything about Ministers before a Select Committee where they can be the rural domain will know that the one thing that examined in detail. children, and particularly their parents, will not want recognised is the fact that they are eligible for free Mr. Drew: Well, I am greedy because I want both. I school meals. That is indicative of how problematic it is want a Select Committee that embraces the different to measure where poverty exists and how we address Departments because that is a good way to hold them can it. People will hide from the fact of their poverty. to account, but I also want an annual debate in this They will live in denial, because they do not want to be Chamber so we can look meaningfully at what progress faced with the fact that they will be labelled as the poor is being made and have a debate on that. To my mind, of the village. We must do something about that. those two means serve different purposes and we should The analysis by the hon. Member for Northavon explore both. (Steve Webb) was, as always, very helpful. We will, no On the definition and measurement of success, I doubt, have an interesting discussion on clause 15 in know we will have a debate on the 10 per cent. versus Committee—perhaps I will be chosen to serve on the the 5 per cent. and I think it is right that we do so, and I Committee—as it is worthy of proper debate. It does also think it is right that we look at whether we can get look like a get-out-of-jail-free card for the Government. down to 0 per cent. There is a danger of getting into a That was countered by my hon. Friend the Member for statistical morass when looking at the four different Regent’s Park and Kensington, North (Ms Buck), who measures, but that does not mean that those of us who rightly said that the point is not the cost of dealing with do not want to play with statistics should not look at poverty, but the fact that if we do not deal with it the what lies behind the statistics. Given that there are costs thereof are even greater. I therefore hope the international obligations that we have to look at—the Government will not see this as an opportunity to slide Department for International Development is examining out of their obligations, but will instead look very how it measures its ability to deal with poverty in carefully at whether that is a necessary clause and different parts of the world—we should be willing and whether it should be more tightly defined. able to reflect on what we are doing in this country. I hope the commission will be proactive. It is a nice Local authorities are key.There is no point in pretending idea that it will come together four times a year, as has that central Government can tackle this issue. They been said, and just look at whether the Government certainly cannot do so in partnership with the voluntary have done what they should have done. To be fair to this sector; they have to do it in partnership with other parts Government, they have been on a journey, all the way of the statutory sector, in which local authorities are through the various reports they have brought forward key. We have various performance indicators, which I and the work of the No. 10 policy unit and the social hope can be addressed. I welcome the fact that almost exclusion unit. I hope we will see this coming through all local authorities now include climate change in the and coming to fruition with the commission being seen targets they are willing to address, and I would hope not as a quango but as a very proactive body that that they would include child poverty as something that engages with the poverty lobby, and that does so to the everybody wants to eradicate, but if we do not target extent that representatives of those in poverty are a part resources on it locally, it never will be eradicated. I wish of it. That is never easy. I and the other members of the to see that happen. I also issue a plea for us to use the all-party group on poverty had a difficult time in addressing Sustainable Communities Act 2007. I want organisations how to engage with people in poverty, but not engaging to see this as one of the triggers they want clearly to with people in poverty is as unacceptable as paying lip identify themselves with in taking forward policies and service to that. having the motivation to ensure everyone is included. As my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mark I am a wee bit nervous that some groups might be Durkan) said, it is important that we recognise that it is excluded from the measurement of children in poverty. the responsibility of this place as well as Government to Asylum seekers, those in care, Traveller families, and address how we make this legislation accountable. I those who have specific disabilities and therefore do not would like the Government to say that they welcome an appear on the radar screen are the very children who are 663 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 664

[Mr. Drew] above the poverty line plunges them back down below it, so that they are then officially in poverty. That is the most vulnerable. If we say they are too difficult to particularly relevant to the Prime Minister’s and the measure and that it is impossible to see how we could Government’s abolition of the 10p tax rate, some of eradicate their position of poverty, that is a sad indictment, whose impact has been ameliorated. According to the because we ought to be looking at measures that can Institute for Fiscal Studies, the people who face the include those very difficult to measure and vulnerable biggest loss from the abolition of the 10p rate are those groups. whose incomes are £149 a week. That figure corresponds Moving towards what we want to achieve does not almost exactly to the Government’s official poverty line, involve simply looking at the statistics and the four which, for an individual, is £145 a week. It is as if the different measures. As many Members have said, it also Government’s poverty policy has been thrown into reverse involves looking at the poverty of aspiration, which is and the tax change has been finely tuned to cause the what causes the greatest dissatisfaction for those in maximum possible damage to their genuine and proper poverty as they not only cannot see themselves getting policy objectives. out of poverty, but they cannot see how they can get A former Labour Health Secretary has said that their children out of poverty. “poverty has become more entrenched”. Of course, attacking the cycle of deprivation must I mentioned the Joseph Rowntree Foundation in an underlie our approach. With those reservations, and intervention, and it has concluded that given that many Members have covered the points that I “the strategy against poverty and social exclusion pursued since wished to talk about, I do not intend to speak for any the late 1990s is now largely exhausted”. longer. I hope that we can debate these matters in the The Treasury itself says: presentations and the sittings that will be available in “Worklessness and low pay are the biggest direct causes of Committee, so that we can bring back an even stronger poverty. Living in a family where no adult is working puts a child Bill to which everyone will commit themselves, because at a 58 per cent. risk of poverty…Work remains the most sustainable by 2020 we should have ended child poverty. route out of poverty: a child’s risk of being in poverty falls from 58 per cent. to 14 per cent. when one or both of their parents is working.” 8.20 pm As hon. Members will know, if one or more parent is in Mr. Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): permanent work and stays in work, the chance of their It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for child being in poverty reduces further still. Stroud (Mr. Drew) and to participate in tonight’s debate, As has been said, the number of people living in which has been of a universally high standard. Every severe poverty, which is defined as having less than speech that I have heard—I apologise for missing the 40 per cent. of median income, has risen by 600,000 first one, Mr. Deputy Speaker—has been thoughtful since this Government came to power—measured after and constructive. I aim to continue in the same vein by housing costs, the level is the highest for 30 years, at not using this immensely serious subject—many hon. 5.2 million people, or 8.8 per cent. of the population. Members have pointed out its seriousness—for any Some 40 per cent. of all people in poverty are now in partisan purpose. severe poverty. The proportion of children living in It is important that we examine where we are on this severe poverty has also grown since 1998-99, increasing issue today. Over the past few years, child poverty in from 5 to 6 per cent. The number of children living in this country has increased enormously. As people have severe poverty has, thus, actually increased by 20 per said, it doubled under the previous Conservative cent. in the past 12 years. That is the situation with Government, on the definition that was being used, and which we are dealing. I am certainly not saying all this some 3.4 million children were living in poverty when in order to make any partisan point, because I recognise the current Government came to power. On the last that Ministers and this Government have genuinely available figures, that number had reduced by 600,000. wrestled with this issue to try to create a fairer and more My maths may be a little poor, but assuming that things equal society. have started to go into reverse in the current recessionary We have heard powerful speeches tonight from the times, it is not unreasonable to expect that there might hon. Members for Foyle (Mark Durkan) and for still be—or might be in the next few months—3 million Northampton, North (Ms Keeble). The hon. Member children living in poverty. That is much further than for Northampton, North discussed how crucial housing 600,000 away from a halving of the poverty figure; I is to the welfare of children in poor households and may be getting my numbers mixed up and I look said that the housing in her constituency is not up to forward to the Minister putting me right, but I fear that standard and is woefully inadequate in quantity; the the situation might be worse than hon. Members are led same is true in my constituency. Who would have thought to believe. that 12 years into this Government, during whose time The progress made to date in reducing the official in office there has been a period of sustained economic poverty figure has largely been achieved by moving growth—at least until recent times—fewer affordable hundreds of thousands of people who were receiving a houses would have been built than in any year of either few pounds less per week than the poverty line to a the Thatcher or Major Governments? I certainly would position where they receive a few pounds more; there not have thought that. It remains a baffling cause for has not been a profound change with regard to the concern that during the times of relative plenty the relative poverty of children in this country. The 600,000 Government did not find the opportunity to reform the whose position has changed have generally not moved planning system and did not find ways to work with very far; their situation has changed by only a few communities, rather than imposing on them, in order to pounds a week. Of course, the converse of that is that ensure that there were the houses that we need and that even the smallest reduction in the income of those just would make such a difference to families. 665 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 666

Where someone is in a decent home in a community work and ensuring that we balance the books? I fear that has decent resources around it—even if numerically, that this legislation is making promises that the Government according to the targets in this Bill, they are still in cannot keep. poverty—their life chances, well-being and morale are We need to look at child poverty holistically. Despite transformed. As has also been mentioned, the worst clause 8 and its wish list of various things that the possible statistic for this country is the one showing that Secretary of State should bear in mind, will the Bill put our children are the most miserable in Europe; there are in a place a strategy to deliver what it promises? I fear more unhappy children in this country than in any that it will not. What will we do about the fact that other around. women in Scotland with no qualifications will tend to I make no apology for explaining where I think we have three children, but only 11 per cent. of women are at on child poverty. We are not in the benign with degrees will tend to have three children? The fewer position of having had a transformation, with major qualifications a woman has, the more likely she is to strides having been made. In no way do I doubt either produce children, and the earlier she is likely to do so. the resource or the will with which the Government The danger is that if women with no qualifications have approached this issue, but I question whether any become pregnant in their teens, they are likely to bring major strides have been made. It seems to me that, for up children in a household with low aspirations and a the poorest in particular, the situation appears to be single parent who struggles to find work because she going backwards. I hope that the Minister will be able lacks those qualifications. Until we tackle that issue, we to talk through the strategies, rather than just the aspirations, will not make progress. that may turn things around. Nor will we make progress until we tackle educational failings. Leitch’s report suggested that the number of I am not sure whether I support the Bill, because I do unskilled jobs would collapse between now and 2020—from not like legislation that makes promises that I fear will more than 2 million to 600,000. There will be very few not be delivered. In a related area, the Apprenticeships, jobs for people who are unskilled, but have educational Skills, Children and Learning Bill promises that every outcomes improved in this period of economic growth? young person of 16 to 18 will be guaranteed a choice of The number of NEETs has gone up and the percentage two apprenticeships within a reasonable travel-to-work of children who get no GCSEs has fallen by only a tiny area by 2013, yet the legislation contains no tools or amount—from 10.3 to 10.2 per cent. On the wider levers to show how on earth any Government would be societal issues, such as housing, supporting families to able to deliver those apprenticeships. I therefore fear bring up children and education, I do not see how this that the very young people who might most want and Bill will make a difference. need them will not actually get them. Likewise, this Bill makes promises that I fear cannot be kept, because we The hon. Member for Foyle said that we must pass a cannot ignore the fact the Government, despite the best Bill that actually means something, and commented will, have failed—or will fail—to deliver their relatively that the Government have resiled from their previous easy target of halving child poverty by next year. That promises—the aim in respect of the eradication of child target came at a time of fiscal surpluses, when we had a poverty is no longer to have 5 per cent. or less of strong economy. But we will miss it. In the next few children in poverty but 10 per cent. That needs to be years, with £175 billion of borrowing this year, £173 billion looked at in Committee, but most of all we need to next year and unprecedented pressure on our public ensure when we make promises to the people of this finances, how can we believe that any Secretary of State country, they are well founded and can be delivered. will be able to deliver on these targets? I fear that they will not. 8.33 pm We have an ageing population—in the coming decade John Mason (Glasgow, East) (SNP): My party welcomes we will have many more people over 80 and over 100—and this Bill. I wish to associate myself in particular with the social care costs will also put Government finances speeches by the hon. Members for Foyle (Mark Durkan) under pressure. The child poverty targets will either and for Northavon (Steve Webb), although almost every distort all other Government policy or—this is more hon. Member who has spoken has made some good likely, in my view—the two opt-outs in clause 15 will be points. used. If economic circumstances are not enough for the We clearly need to tackle income inequality and the Secretary of State to use as an excuse, he or she will be root causes of disadvantage, and we need to support able to cite fiscal circumstances as well. Obviously, the people in poverty now. Some of the explanatory notes economic circumstances opt-out was not broad enough are very good and summarise where we are trying to go. for them. The fear is that this is aspirational legislation, Paragraph 131 says: sending out false messages that any Government will “It is nearly impossible to quantify the financial benefits of struggle to deliver, given the fiscal inheritance of whoever eradicating child poverty. Growing up in poverty can damage wins the election next May. cognitive, social and emotional development, which are all I ask Ministers to be as upfront as possible with determinants of future outcomes for a child. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation estimates that child poverty costs at least £25 billion a people about what is possible within the funding that is year in Britain, and that £17 billion could accrue to the Exchequer likely to be available. The Secretary of State in the Bill if child poverty were eradicated. However, this is a possible will be the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, so under-estimate of the true benefit. There are other benefits associated the assumption is that benefits and tax credits will be with the eradication of child poverty which are difficult to quantify used to deliver children out of poverty. That means that such as equity, reducing hardship, deprivation and exclusion and the benefit level for the average family on benefits will breaking the intergenerational poverty link.” have to be set above the relative poverty line, but how Those points have been referred to by many of the will that be possible while maintaining the incentives to Members who have spoken. 667 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 668

[John Mason] Clause 15 has been referred to, and some of my fears have been echoed. Barnardo’s mention that clause too. The current economic climate is leading to more Is it a get-out clause? We should be interested in reassurance families in poverty, and more families who could fall from the Financial Secretary that that is not the case. into poverty. We cannot have this debate without talking Perhaps the Committee might come up with better about resources, which have not been touched on as wording for it. Are the factors mentioned simply factors much as I hoped. At the last Budget, the Child Poverty that have to be taken into account, or can they override Action Group called on the Chancellor to invest at least the targets? £3 billion in tax credits and benefits. When that did not We have not heard very much about interim targets. happen, the CPAG said there was a danger that the Bill It seems to be accepted that the 2010 target, the halfway would have point, will be missed. Will the Minister who responds to “no credibility from the outset.” the debate state that everyone now accepts that? It Without real money, I do not see how we can possibly strikes me that if we are now aiming for 2020 there meet the child poverty targets. Instead, with budgets should be an interim target of 2015—a point at which being cut, as I fear both major parties seek to do—although we could measure progress. they may quibble over who is cutting more—we shall One or two Members have asked whether the commission not see much progress. The Budget this year did little to should be beefed up. Should it have a bigger budget and help, so I would be interested to hear from the Financial more powers? The hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. Drew) Secretary at the end of the debate whether there will be said that he would like it to consult outside experts. real resources in the pre-Budget report this autumn to That in itself would presumably increase the time for help to address the shortfall. which it needed to meet, and its expenses. If the commission We need to simplify the tax credit scheme and promote is to do its own research and call for evidence, it will greater availability of child care vouchers. There is a need a budget for that. Like others, I welcome the fact problem for people whose weekly hours fall below 16, that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are to appoint because they lose tax credits. There is a particular their own commissioners, which has not always happened problem for single-parent families. We are told that in other cases, such as broadcasting. 52 per cent. of them were in poverty in 2007-08. Parents It concerns me that no actual figures in pounds and may not be to blame for a family coming apart, but it is pence are being mentioned. I accept the relative measures clear that the children suffer. that are being given, but I wonder whether they are Relative inequality is definitely a problem. We have enough in themselves. Perhaps we need to look at heard many examples of children who cannot do the minimum income standards and consider raising the same things as other children in their class. Gingerbread minimum wage. One of the London charities that submitted gives this example: evidence reminds us of some of the figures that we are talking about: “My children have also been unable to go on school trips because I cannot afford it…and my children were the only ones “Nowhere in the government’s measures of poverty is there not to go.” any estimate of what it actually costs every week to live healthily in the expensive UK economy. The current…adult unemployment School trips may not be the most essential thing in life, benefits…are £64.30 a week, but £50.95 a week aged 18-25; they but I find such statements particularly touching. are half, or less than, the government’s poverty threshold and By many accounts, my Glasgow, East constituency 42 per cent. of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation minimum income standard” has some of the greatest poverty in the country. Housing is the issue that people most often come to see me after housing costs about. It has been touched on already, so I will not go “of £144 a week.” into great detail, but the examples given by the hon. We need to introduce some solid reality. I know that Member for Northampton, North (Ms Keeble) were costs change year by year, but there seems to be a lack extremely relevant and touching. So many kids are of reality in the Bill. brought up in overcrowded, unsuitable accommodation in the 21st century. Tax credits were mentioned when I asked about the minimum wage. Although we welcome tax credits, and Clause 2 contains a 10 per cent. target, but as I said in the fact that they boost family income, in one sense they an intervention, I wonder whether that is ambitious just subsidise profitable employers. Employers can then enough. Clearly that target is much further on than we employ staff at the minimum wage, which people clearly are at present, so it is definitely to be welcomed—but cannot live on, and make huge profits. I have a problem given the number of voices who question it, including with that. those of Barnardo’s, Save the Children and Gingerbread, we have to wonder whether it is enough. If we said that Consultation is good, but I notice that clause 9(4)(c) next year only 10 per cent. of houses in the UK would talks about consulting children or organisations that be broken into, so by definition house-breaking would represent children. That “or” should be an “and” because be eradicated, many Members would not accept it, and children should definitely be consulted. neither would the public. As has already been suggested, I suspect that more than one Secretary of State will if the plan was to remove 10 per cent. of Members from be involved in all this, because the Secretary of State for the House, a lot of us would not be very keen on it. In Scotland will be involved in some of the processes. I reality, none of us think that 10 per cent. will be hope that the Secretaries of State will be constructive in acceptable in the long term, although I acknowledge their dealings with Holyrood and the other devolved that it is a big improvement on the current situation. Administrations. I want to make some points from a Perhaps we should stop using words such as “eradicate” Scottish point of view. The Scottish Government are and “abolish”, because that is not what will happen. fully signed up to the UK target of halving child 669 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 670 poverty by 2010 and eradicating it by 2020. In Scotland However, some of the issues that I want to raise may 20 per cent. of children are in poverty, which is only run counter to those made in many of the speeches in marginally better than the UK as a whole. The Scottish this debate. Government welcome the positive contact that there has been between the Minister and our Deputy First First, I welcome the objectives of the Bill. We have Minister. had a good run-through this evening of the impacts that child poverty has on children throughout the United There has been some mention of grandparents and Kingdom and the consequences for society in lost other relatives. The whole issue of kinship care needs to opportunities, crime, problems in later life and so on. be looked at. I know that in Scotland some local authorities, However, I am not so sure that the approach taken in and the Scottish Government, are trying to help the Bill is necessarily a good way of dealing with the grandparents and other relatives who look after children, issue. Hon. Members have drawn parallels between this but there seem to be problems with the Department for Bill and the Climate Change Act 2008—some people Work and Pensions penalising people. That needs to be may know my views on that—under which long-term looked into. targets have been set. Those targets will span not just The Scottish Government would like to replace council this Administration, but another Administration and tax with a local income tax, which would definitely help perhaps another one after that. At the end, nobody will poorer families. Scotland believes that we will be able to be held responsible for targets that may be set 10 or tackle the issues of child poverty best when we have the 20 years in advance. To throw in a commission in order full powers of taxation, spending and social welfare to try to provide some continuity is something that I am under our control, but we seek to do what we can with not so sure about—and I will come to the commission what we have. in a moment. I am not sure that the approach that we I note that the hon. Member for Edinburgh, West are debating is necessarily the best way forward. (John Barrett) mentioned that money came from Secondly, let us introduce a bit of realism. Hon. Westminster and was not used in the same way as it was Members have already made the point that the issue in England. However, he then mentioned that hospital should not be about simply scoring political points off appointments were important for disabled people. One the Government who happen to have responsibility for of the things that the present Government of Scotland taking through legislation and public policy at the have done is to keep open more hospitals that were moment. However, even with their commitment to reaching planned for closure. A lot of the levers still lie with the their target of reducing child poverty by 50 per cent., UK Government, but I hope that that disadvantage can this Government were unable to achieve their targets be addressed in due course. during the best of economic times. At a time when Local government in Scotland has also been mentioned. employment was riding high and public finances were I do not know whether exactly the same applies in abundant, those targets were not met. This Bill is being Wales and Northern Ireland, but we have the concordat, introduced in the context of immense pressure on public which means that local government and the Scottish sector finances, with a period of rising unemployment Government try to work together on more issues, rather and the impact of other policies. For example, last week than taking a top-down approach. However, that means the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change that it is more difficult to have ring-fencing and to insist announced a policy that will add, some believe, £230 a on local government toeing a certain line. However, to year to households’ energy bills. be fair to local authorities—I know best the authority in Glasgow, which probably has a lot of the problems in We must therefore be realistic when we set these Scotland—they are very committed to tackling child targets. We must not create an expectation that we can poverty too. meet a target that we were unable to meet in the good I hope that there can be a constructive relationship circumstances, because we are unlikely to be able to between Westminster and Holyrood. It is a question of meet it in the circumstances that we will face in future. I balance, because some factors are almost purely take issue with the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Westminster issues, while others are purely Holyrood Durkan), who used the word “slipperiness” in referring issues. However, as the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark to the clause saying that economic and financial Durkan) said, there is also a twilight area where a lot of circumstances should be taken into consideration. To a the factors interrelate. In the past there have been some certain extent, that is simply being sensible. We are unfortunate examples of a lack of working together. looking at a policy that will apply that far ahead and For instance, the Scottish Government were approached in circumstances that we cannot possibly foresee and on 19 March for a response to the Equality Bill that unless we skew all the other policies around it, we must was required by 25 March. Six days for a Government have some way of evaluating the targets that we are response is really not what we are looking for. aiming for but that circumstances might prevent us from achieving. We are in complete agreement that child poverty is one of the foremost issues, now and for the coming My next point flows from that. There is an obligation years. We support the Bill; my only question is whether on devolved Administrations to bring forward a strategic it is specific enough, whether it is tough enough and plan for dealing with this issue. I take the point that it is whether it goes far enough. not simply about levels of income. Perhaps the Bill focuses too much on that, although, to be fair to the Government, the guidance that they have given goes 8.46 pm much wider to include housing, education and a range Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): The difficulty of other things. However, there will still be resource towards the end of such a debate is that many of the implications that vary across different parts of the points that one wished to raise have already been raised. country. In some places there will be deeper deprivation, 671 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 672

[Sammy Wilson] and should have more. Let us face it—once such an organisation is set up, the impetus is always for it to be and therefore a greater problem, than in others; the expanded into a bigger bureaucracy and a bigger quango, causes of poverty might be much more expensive to not shrunk. As the hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. Drew) deal with than elsewhere. said, the real place where the scrutiny of the success or Without the commitment of resources—I am thinking otherwise of this policy should be undertaken is Parliament. particularly of devolved Administrations such as Northern This is where Ministers should be brought to account, Ireland, where, given the higher levels of deprivation whether through Select Committees or in annual debates and child poverty, there are greater consequences in in the House. This—not some quango—is the place for dealing with this—we will not meet the targets for 2010 such scrutiny. Of course, quangos often take on a life of that we had hoped to meet. Only last week, the House their own anyway. Few quangos vote, or produce reports, of Lords indicated—the hon. Member for Glasgow, to say that they are no longer needed. They always find East (John Mason) will not like to hear this—that some reason for their continued existence. Wales and Northern Ireland have lost out on the Barnett I have heard so many times in this House that we have formula. As a result, the resources that have been made to reduce the cost of government. However, it seems available are less than what is required to bring Northern that on almost every occasion when we come forward Ireland up to the levels that would give us greater with some new ideas or policies to deal with a particular equality with the rest of the United Kingdom. Some problem, we set up more extra-parliamentary bodies. I Members have asked how, if the money available through believe that that is the wrong way forward. the Barnett funding mechanism is not ring-fenced, we I look forward to Committee. I know that the devolved can be sure that it will be spent on these issues. However, Administration in Northern Ireland will be actively the fact that the child poverty strategy has been brought involved in considering a strategy for dealing with child forward indicates that the necessary resources have to poverty, which will have to cross all the various Departments be directed towards dealing with it. within that Administration. I hope that where resources I am not sure I agree with criticisms of other aspects are required centrally for that strategy, they will be of the Bill. The hon. Member for Henley (John Howell) made available. said that the strategy for dealing with these issues would be imposed on, or left to, local councils as the deliverers 8.58 pm in England, and that there would be disadvantages to Mr. David Gauke (South-West Hertfordshire) (Con): that. Given the different circumstances in different parts We have had an interesting and thoughtful debate with of the United Kingdom, that degree of flexibility for contributions from all parts of the House and all parts local councils or devolved Administrations to bring of the United Kingdom. We heard 13 contributions forward their own strategies is a good part of the Bill. from the Back Benches, and I would particularly like to Administrations are guided towards certain areas, but thank my hon. Friends the Members for South-West some will have different emphases. In rural areas, for Devon (Mr. Streeter), for Henley (John Howell) and for example, the issues of poverty might be much different Beverley and Holderness (Mr. Stuart) for three excellent from those in inner-city areas. Giving the responsibility speeches. My hon. Friend the Member for South-West to local authorities or devolved Administrations to Devon set out the case that poverty is not just about draft their own strategies rather than having them imposed money and stressed the importance of stability and from the centre is, I believe, a good idea. security in children’s upbringing. My hon. Friend the Let me consider the circumstances in Northern Ireland. Member for Henley set out some of the challenges for One thing that helps to release people from poverty—it local authorities and some of the difficulties that the has been mentioned tonight—is a good sound education Bill may cause. My hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and once we had a devolved Administration in Northern and Holderness rightly stated that the debate included Ireland, we moved away from the policy that the many high-quality speeches, and proceeded to deliver Government were introducing of doing away with grammar one himself. It touched on many issues, including schools in Northern Ireland. We believed that grammar educational standards and housing. schools were one way of giving young people from There is some consensus here. We strongly share the disadvantaged backgrounds the opportunity to climb aspiration to eradicate child poverty by 2020. We believe the ladder out of that background and impoverishment. that high levels of child poverty reveal a waste of When it comes to the delivery of some of the programmes, potential in a globalised world, in which there are especially those that offer help with families that have opportunities for many more people than was previously difficulties or that are dysfunctional, Churches in Northern the case to achieve greater material wealth. Children Ireland could have a huge input—and perhaps more so who are excluded from those opportunities will fall than in other parts of the United Kingdom. A strategy further and further behind. It is not good for any of us that recognises such opportunities and their strengths if a section of society is excluded from the benefits of should be within the remit of the local administration. what we hope will be a growing economy in the years That flexibility is good, and we should turn our backs ahead, stuck in a culture of low aspiration and dependency on it. and attaining poor educational qualifications. All that My last point concerns the need for the commission. results in a cycle of deprivation, and it becomes increasingly Its role is to provide the data, to scrutinise and evaluate hard for any child born into poverty to escape it. That is the policy, to carry out research into child poverty and bad for those in poverty and for society as a whole. For to have the expertise in dealing with families that experience those reasons, we support the aspiration behind the Bill. poverty and so on. We are told that it will not cost very On a positive note, the debate appears to be moving much. We have not even got the Bill through and groups in a more sensible direction. There was a time when the are already saying that the commission is under-resourced Government’s response to all such questions was simply, 673 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 674

“More money”, and a view that any problem, including says to his worried parents, “Don’t worry, Mum. Don’t child poverty, could be addressed by more public worry, Dad. I hereby pledge”—it is not an aspiration, it expenditure—more money in benefits and tax credits. If is a pledge—“to obtain a postgraduate degree within we exclude the Secretary of State’s contribution to the 10 years. In 12 months’ time I will set out my strategy debate, it appears that the Government have moved on for how I will do that.” I think the parents could be from that one-dimensional approach. forgiven for not being overly impressed, and we are not The Institute for Fiscal Studies has calculated that overly impressed by the Government’s approach. They one could spend £4.2 billion to meet the 2010 target. are failing on the target that is about to arrive, so That is not a recommendation, merely an assessment of instead they focus on something that will happen in what could be done by spending that amount on child 10 years’ time by concentrating on an aspiration well benefit and tax credits. It also calculates that the 2020 beyond the next general election. target could be achieved by spending £19 billion in A further concern that we have is about accountability. 2008-09 prices. However, the Government appear to Clause 1 states that it is recognise that that is not a sustainable method of delivering. “the duty of the Secretary of State to ensure that…targets are We agree. met”. We welcome the Government’s acknowledgement of I hope that in Committee we will be able to examine to the need for a wide range of interventions. It must be whom exactly that duty is owed. What will happen if said that my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford the target is not met? Will it be possible to take the and Woodford Green (Mr. Duncan Smith) has set the Secretary of State to court if he or she fails to meet a terms of the debate. The greater focus on family breakdown, target? Will the courts be able to block a policy initiative drug and alcohol dependency and worklessness has if it is inconsistent with that duty, or will they be able to meant that we now have a more sensible debate on such initiate policy? If so, there has to be distinct unease, matters. The Government’s record on poverty and reducing because those are matters for a democratically accountable the gap between the poorest and the rest of society is politician. They are matters for Ministers, not unelected disappointing. As we have heard, they are failing to judges, and that would start to blur the line between meet their 2010 target—it is estimated that it will be what is rightfully done in this place and by people missed by 600,000 children—and child poverty is increasing. accountable to it and what is done in the courts. If it is Sometimes the Government make the excuse that not for the courts to make such decisions, that prompts everything was going swimmingly until the recession the question of what the point of the Bill is, other than came along. That is wrong on two counts. First, long to be a glorified press release. before the recession arrived, the Government were destined Part 2 of the Bill sets out the role of local authorities. to miss their 2010 target. In February 2009, the IFS said We recognise and welcome the importance of local that its authorities playing a role in tackling child poverty, and “forecast of child poverty in 2010 would be very slightly lower if we recognise that a lot of problems are of a local nature. the economy were to perform worse than the Treasury assumed in That point has been made by a number of hon. Members the PBR. This is because lower employment and real earnings on both sides of the House. However, part 2 contains a have more effect on median income (and thus the poverty line) list of duties on local authorities: to make arrangements than on the income of low-income families with children (in to promote co-operation with partner authorities, to which the parents are less likely to be working than in the median publish a local child poverty needs assessment, to prepare household).” a joint child poverty strategy and to have regard to The recession is, therefore, according to the IFS, to the any guidance given by the Secretary of State. That is advantage of meeting the child poverty target. very much a top-down view of what local authorities The hon. Member for Copeland (Mr. Reed) said that should do. tackling inequality and poverty was what his party was Essentially, the Government’s view as expressed in about and what the Government were for. However, it is the Bill is that local authorities are there to administer not just in the area of child poverty that this Government the priorities of central Government. Under the Bill, are failing. The average weekly income, after housing, there is no discretion as regards which of the partner of the poorest 10 per cent. has fallen from £98 in authorities local authorities should work with, or what 2003-04 to £87 in 2007-08. The Gini index shows inequality measurement of child poverty should be used. Is there at a record high. Life expectancy differences between an argument for a wider range of measurements being the poor and the rest have widened since Labour came available for local authorities to use? My hon. Friend to power, as have infant mortality rates. Youth the Member for Henley set out what some local authorities unemployment is a third higher than when Labour took are doing. Will that help or hinder? office, and the number of people on out-of-work benefits The requirement to have regard to the Secretary of has not fallen below 5 million in the past 12 years. Of State’s guidance could result—we will want to examine that figure, 1.1 million people of working age have this in Committee—in the Secretary of State being able never worked a day while Labour has been in power. to force local authorities to act in a particular way. That Child poverty is just one example of the Government’s would make local authorities look to what central approach to poverty having failed. Government want, rather than to the local people whom It is therefore not surprising that there is a degree of they are there to represent. scepticism about the Bill, which is more about distracting attention from the failure of the 2010 target than it is Mr. Graham Stuart: My hon. Friend puts his finger about the 2020 target. I shall make an analogy. Let us on an important point. On the guidance from the imagine a school pupil who is about to sit his GCSEs. Secretary of State, there will be fear that if the Government He has not completed all his coursework, he has not impose an urban model, albeit with good will, it will revised, and he is clearly destined to fail his GCSEs. He have a disastrous impact on locally tailored policies in 675 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 676

[Mr. Graham Stuart] should have a good start in life, a fulfilling childhood and opportunities to thrive and flourish. That is why, rural areas such as the East Riding of Yorkshire, which after 1997, we first halted and then reversed the previously I represent. That would be the case even if the urban inexorable rise in child poverty. There are 500,000 fewer model was appropriate, even if the Government had got children living below the poverty line than there were in it absolutely right and even if it worked in urban areas. 1999, and another 500,000 are expected to be lifted above the line by the measures announced in the past Mr. Gauke: My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. couple of years. That is exactly the concern. I hope that we will be able I pay tribute to the work of my hon. Friend the to examine that issue. The situation will partly depend Member for Regent’s Park and Kensington, North on how the powers given to the Secretary of State are (Ms Buck) on child poverty in London, and I agree with applied, but there is clearly a concern. We believe that her that it is dishonest to pretend that there has been no logically there is a role for local authorities; a lot of progress over the past 10 years, although I welcome the problems relating to poverty are local in nature, so fact that Conservative Members are now willing to talk clearly local authorities must have discretion in deciding about poverty in a way that simply did not happen when how to tackle them. The concern is whether the balance we had a Conservative Government. There has been will be right, and I hope that we will examine that in substantial progress over the past 10 years. Reforms greater detail in Committee. since 1997 have made households with children in the We need to know what the burden on local authorities least well-off fifth of the population £4,750 a year will be, and whether the Bill will be an effective way of better off, on average. The minimum income for a reducing child poverty. There is a concern that the family with one child and one person working 35 hours response to part 2 will be a plethora of advertisements a week has increased by more than 30 per cent. in real in The Guardian for “a child poverty strategy co-ordinator, terms since 1999. There has been very substantial progress, tasked with engaging in a permanent dialogue with key but there remains a great deal more to do. That is the stakeholders and partner authorities to develop a cross- importance of the Bill, which will provide renewed cutting strategic plan to meet statutory child poverty impetus, build and sustain momentum and create a objectives”, but that little will be done to move significant clear definition of success. It will put in place a framework numbers of children out of poverty. for accountability and improve partnership working at local level to tackle child poverty. Mr. Stuart: Does my hon. Friend think that it is an The hon. Member for Northavon (Steve Webb) made omission that there is no mention of children’s trusts? a particularly interesting speech, drawing on his many They are supposed to have been put into statutory form years of work in this area. I am grateful for his support already, and are supposed to bring together the various for the Bill and I agree with his characterisation of what agencies; it is rather odd that they are not mentioned in was happening inexorably under the Tory Government. the Bill. I hope that he will send me some of his collected works; Mr. Gauke: Again, my hon. Friend makes an interesting I look forward to reading them over the summer, and to point. I do not know whether we should take that as his having a rigorous debate with him and others in Committee application to be on the Public Bill Committee, but it after the break. sounds as though he has a host of good ideas that he The hon. Gentleman and one or two others suggested will want to bring to the Committee. that the current fiscal pressures put the ambitions for 2020 at risk. I would rather put it the other way round. We support the aspiration behind the Bill, but the Bill Under the obligations in the Bill, once it receives Royal shares some of the less attractive characteristics of the Assent, we need to devise a strategy for child poverty Government. It looks bureaucratic, and it looks as that is consistent with the fiscal consolidation that will though it is centralising, rather than localising. There is be necessary over the next few years. That is what one other important point. One might expect a Government clause 15 requires. The eradication of child poverty and to proceed by first setting out their objectives, then the fiscal consolidation set out in the Budget are not setting out a strategy on how to deliver those objectives, incompatible, and the strategy that the Bill requires will and then delivering, but after 12 years, the Government have to demonstrate how we can deliver both. Financial have failed to deliver, so they resort to repackaging their support will have to be tightly targeted—that is true. objectives in the Bill without explaining how they will Having a job is the best way out of poverty, but too deliver. Whatever its qualities, the Bill is a style-over- many families today remain below the poverty line even substance measure. It is about political positioning though a family member is in work. We need to do before delivery. It is a Bill from a Government who have better for those families, and to set out in the strategy given up on delivery. It is a Bill from a Government who how public services, which have seen a huge boost in have given up. Where this Government have failed, funding over the past 10 years, will help us to tackle others must succeed. poverty. Some hon. Members have rightly said that the benefits 9.14 pm of the proposals will far outweigh the costs. Creating a Mr. Timms: I agree that we have had an excellent fairer society will benefit everyone. Without the action debate. I really hope that we can forge a consensus on that we are proposing, we would need to continue the aims of the Bill and the reforms that it will deliver. meeting the real and high costs of inequality, and we The goal is that no child’s life prospects should be would continue to miss out on the value of unfulfilled limited by an upbringing in poverty. My hon. Friend the potential. The eradication of child poverty will have Member for Copeland (Mr. Reed) was among the significant benefits for the economy. Entrenched crime contributors to the debate who set out how some of and poor health impose big costs on public services and those limitations are applied in practice. Every child prevent them from operating as effectively as they could. 677 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 678

The hon. Member for Glasgow, East (John Mason) drive action to tackle such poverty across the so-called was right to mention the recent estimate by the Joseph “building blocks” underlying the income targets. Hitting Rowntree Foundation that the cost to the economy of all four of those targets will provide real and lasting child poverty is around £25 billion a year. The challenge improvement to the well-being of children in the UK. is to work out how to tackle that cost effectively, and to The hon. Member for South-West Devon (Mr. Streeter) realise those substantial cost savings over time in a way made a connection between family break-up and poverty— that is consistent with the consolidation that will be and there is, of course, a connection between them. The needed over the next few years. That is what the strategy shadow Secretary of State quoted from the regulatory required by the Bill will need to do. impact assessment, where it said that low incomes can Measuring poverty is not straightforward; there are cause strain in relationships leading to family breakdown, widely different approaches to it, and we have heard while family breakdown can exacerbate or even cause about some of them in the debate. The definition of poverty. I would advise caution regarding some of the success in the Bill results from careful and widespread points made by the hon. Gentleman and others about consideration and consultation. My hon. Friend the the so-called couples penalty. In particular, it remains Member for Stroud (Mr. Drew) referred to the widespread the case that the likelihood of poverty is twice as high in consultation that had taken place, and to the quite one-parent households as in two-parent households, widely held sense of ownership of the Bill and of the which needs to be borne in mind as we set about way it sets about its task. It involves four poverty tackling the problem. measures: relative poverty, combined low income and I agree with those who applauded the contribution of material deprivation, absolute low income and persistent the third sector. My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, poverty. Those four reflect the reality that income and North (Julie Morgan) made the same point, and I join the length of time experienced on low income and being her in paying tribute to the work of organisations in without things are all important, and success will be Wales. The hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Mr. Davies) achieved only if all four of those targets are hit. Those talked about the work of the End Child Poverty coalition, targets are ambitious, but achievable. If we meet them which does great work in every part of the UK. I join by 2020 and maintain them subsequently, we can be those hon. Members who paid tribute to the work of confident of making a big impact on children’s well-being the Welsh Assembly Government in this area, as it has and on the well-being of the country, as those children had measures in place since March, including duties on go on to become adults. Welsh Ministers to prepare a child poverty strategy and update it every three years. Mr. Graham Stuart: My constituents often tell me that they get frustrated when, as soon as a target they The hon. Member for Henley (John Howell) set out have heard about looks as though it will fail to be his concerns about the role of local authorities in the achieved, there is a big fanfare announcing something Bill, but it has been widely recognised that tackling new. Will the Minister address the 2010 target and child poverty cannot be a priority only for central square with the House about where we are with it so Government Departments; it must also be a priority for that we have some context when we talk about the Bill. local authorities and their partners. Obviously, tackling child poverty helps local communities, and many local Mr. Timms: I am happy to do so. I refer the hon. authorities have made a commitment to tackling child Gentleman to the assessment made by the Institute for poverty. Good work is under way, and local authorities Fiscal Studies, which I believe estimates that on the have given a lot of support to the proposals in the Bill. basis of policy currently in place, we can expect to get However, we need local authorities and their partners to about two-thirds of the way to the target by the end of do more, even in seemingly affluent areas such as—dare 2010-11. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State I say it—Henley. The legislation will be accompanied by for Work and Pensions explained earlier that pressure support to help local partnerships as they work together. on the public finances constrains what we can do, but The Bill embraces Scotland and Northern Ireland as we have certainly not given up, and we may be able to go well as Wales, and I am grateful for the support and further in the announcements to follow before the end help from both Administrations in the progress that we of the 2010-11 period. have made on the Bill. I welcome many of the points that my hon. Friend Clause 15 is not, as one or two Members have suggested, the Member for Northampton, North (Ms Keeble) put a get-out clause. The only way of avoiding the duty to forward. She is consistent in championing the need for meet the targets under the Bill would be to repeal the better housing and she provided some powerful examples legislation. Clause 15 is about how, not whether, the from her constituency. One of the indicators in the Government meet the targets, in a value-for-money way material deprivation index is whether or not children that is consistent with the needs of the wider economy. over 10 of different genders have their own room—an Our vision of a fairer society in which no child is left issue that she raised, which is at least touched on in behind, and every child has the chance to flourish, is the Bill. one that I hope the whole House will embrace. The All the targets refer to income, but I agree that it is House will have appreciated the tribute paid by my hon. important to approach the issue of child poverty from a Friend the Member for Stroud to Peter Townsend, and variety of angles, working across the whole of Government I agree with him about Professor Townsend’s huge and at a local level. The Bill recognises the importance contribution to drawing attention to the issue. Too of narrowing the education attainment gap for many families are still on the edge of coping. There disadvantaged children and of reducing infant mortality, should not be, but there are, families who cannot afford but it is right to focus on income in order to address the to eat properly, keep their home warm or pay for basics lack of experiences and opportunities from which children such as school uniform or outings, let alone buy presents in low-income families suffer. The Bill’s strategy will for birthday parties, as we have heard. 679 Child Poverty Bill20 JULY 2009 Child Poverty Bill 680

[Mr. Timms] 6. Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on consideration and Third Reading. Children who grow up in poverty lack experiences Other proceedings and opportunities that others take for granted, and the 7. Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings exclusion that results can last for a lifetime. We can on consideration of Lords Amendments or on any further messages change that, and we must. The Bill is a key step, and I from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Helen Jones.) look forward to the detailed debates after the recess. Question agreed to. I commend the Bill to the House. Question put and agreed to. CHILD POVERTY BILL [MONEY] Bill accordingly read a Second time. Queen’s recommendation signified. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)), That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Child CHILD POVERTY BILL (PROGRAMME) Poverty Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing money provided by Parliament of— Order No. 83A(7), (1) any expenditure incurred under or by virtue of the Act by a Minister of the Crown, and That the following provisions shall apply to the Child Poverty (2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable Bill: under any other Act out of money so provided.—(Helen Jones.) Committal Question agreed to. 1. The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee. Proceedings in Public Bill Committee CHILD POVERTY (CARRY-OVER) 2. Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Tuesday Order No. 80A(1)(a), 3 November. That if, at the conclusion of this Session of Parliament, proceedings 3. The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the on the Child Poverty Bill have not been completed, they shall be first day on which it meets. resumed in the next Session.—(Helen Jones.) Consideration and Third Reading Question agreed to. 4. Proceedings on consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the Mr. Deputy Speaker: We have today received a message moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings from the Lords. The Lords agree without amendment are commenced. to the amendments made by the Commons to the 5. Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill. We can therefore concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption pass over motion 6 on the Order Paper. on that day. 681 20 JULY 2009 Political Parties and Elections Bill 682

Political Parties and Elections Bill Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire) (LD) rose— Consideration of Lords message Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Has the Minister completed Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Michael Lord): The Lords his remarks? do not insist on their amendments to the Political Parties and Elections Bill, to which the Commons have Mr. Wills: Yes. disagreed, but they disagree with the amendments proposed by the Commons in lieu of those amendments, and Mr. Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) (Con): The propose amendments in lieu of those Commons amendments represent a clarification of the Government’s amendments, to which they desire the agreement of the new position—set out this time last week—in relation Commons. to exceptions to those who can constitute acceptable Lords message considered forthwith (Programme Order, donors. In practice, they have been clarified on the 13 July). Government’s own terms, because of the deficiencies in their own amendments last week and not on the basis of 9.28 pm any kind of consensus. The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Mr. Michael Once again we were given very little notice of Wills): I beg to move, amendments in the Government’s rush to finalise legislation, That this House does not insist on its Amendments Nos. 12A but perhaps I should not be surprised, given that we to 12F in lieu of Lords Amendments Nos. 11 and 12, and agrees received the Government’s earlier amendments only six with the Lords in their Amendments Nos. 12G to 12N in lieu. hours before we debated them in the House a week ago. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for That is not how we should be making the laws of this Justice made clear at the time, amendments 12A to 12F country. We expect to be given an opportunity to scrutinise were not fully workable. The Government therefore the major changes in our electoral law that the Government tabled further amendments 12G to 12N in lieu. Those propose. amendments have been agreed to today in another The Government’s performance has been chaotic and place. confusing. We are here to ensure that effective legislation The Government’s amendments seek to address the is produced, and that means dealing with the incredibly legal, technical and basic operational deficiencies with detailed legal arguments involved in the amendments in the amendments moved by Lord Campbell-Savours. As a controlled and balanced manner. In its briefing on the such, should the amendments be agreed to, we would amendments, the Electoral Commission itself says, want to discuss carefully their implementation with the “we have not yet had time to analyse the amendments fully”. parties and the Electoral Commission in due course It is evident from the speed with which we received before the new restriction came into force. the amendments, and from the turnaround involved in Amendments 12G to 12N remedy some of the dealing with them, that the Government have not had deficiencies in amendments 12A to 12F. They raise the enough time in which to consider, in full, their implications permissibility threshold in relation to taxation status and whether they work in practice. We are particularly from £500 to £7,500, aligning it with the threshold at surprised that the Government are bulldozing them which a declaration will be required. That will be far through, given the lengths to which they went last week easier for parties and donors to operate. We have required to secure a carry-over motion so that the Bill could be aggregation of donations above £500 which in aggregate dealt with after the summer recess. I ask the Minister exceed £7,500 in a calendar year to the same recipient. why, given the depth and complexity of the subject The amendments ensure that the new restriction applies matter, the Government do not consider the issues that to loans as well as donations. They also ensure that for we have raised with them over the recess, and allow the purposes of the aggregation provisions, donations Parliament to produce effective and fully considered and loans from the same source must be added together. legislation when we return. These latest amendments, which were debated in the 9.30 pm other place this afternoon, attempt to improve technically We have made it clear that in the majority of cases, a the amendments that we debated last Monday on the party or other donee will satisfy the requirement to take permissibility of donations for those who wish to support “all reasonable steps” to verify a donation’s permissibility our democracy but are currently resident overseas. Again, if it receives a declaration from the individual in regard these amendments have been clarified on the Government’s to taxation status. A party would be required to take own terms. The Government have ignored a host of further steps only if it had reasonable grounds to consider important issues, and have pressed ahead with the the declaration to be incorrect. We believe that that amendments in the face of strong arguments for our approach strikes the right balance by minimising the belief that the legislation is flawed. burden on parties and donors and ensuring a workable A week ago, I presented a number of reasons for our restriction. inability to accept the fairness of the amendments. The Lords amendment 121 gives the Secretary of State fact remains that the clause will be extremely hard to power to make further supplementary incidental or implement, and we feel that it could be unreasonable to consequential provision at the point of commencement impose requirements that are so difficult to meet when of the new restriction. the consequences are so draconian. This proposal may I hope that the amendments will be accepted here, as be an infringement of an individual’s right to freedom they were in another place. They would be a proportionate of expression, it is likely to be contrary to EU law, it and effective way of maintaining the spirit of the would certainly contribute to the isolation of UK citizens amendments originally tabled by Lord Campbell-Savours, living abroad, it is contrary to regulatory principles, and and I commend them to the House. it links political rights to taxation. Furthermore, it does 683 Political Parties and Elections Bill20 JULY 2009 Political Parties and Elections Bill 684

[Mr. Jonathan Djanogly] motion that I understand has not been selected. Nevertheless, there are still important issues for the not correctly address a mischief that the Political Parties, Government to respond on. Elections and Referendums Act 2000 aimed to address, The first is a change in the definition of the situation namely a clarification of the rules on party donations. in which a declaration has to be made about tax status. It is irrational to us that, having been presented with The Government’s first attempt at definition talked so many strong reasons why these amendments should about someone who causes a donation to be made. In not be passed, the Government are steam-rolling the the amendments that the Government then tabled in the matter through at almost 10 o’clock tonight. As I have Lords, that was changed to an individual making a said previously in the House, this is legislating on the donation. That seems a much narrower definition. hoof and we do not much like it. There is a problem that was identified originally by There is a technical difficulty in trying to assess an the Government: these proposals do not in terms prevent individual’s permissibility by reference to their tax status donations from being made by companies. A lot of the because, by its very nature, it is both changeable and controversy about large donations from abroad has retrospective. These new amendments are concerned been about companies making donations. It seemed with the individual’s tax status in the “current tax year”. that the Government were attempting to deal with that I need not remind the House that the Secretary of State problem by using the phrase for Justice has said: “causing a donation to be made”. “It is...almost impossible to establish somebody’s tax status, That phrase seemed at least to some of us to be applicable and particularly residence status, in the middle of a tax year.”—[Official to the situation where an individual who controls a Report, 13 July 2009; Vol. 496, c. 61.] company caused that company to make a donation. Can the Minister explain how these provisions will However, in the new definition proposed by the Lords work in practice and how the Government intend to to us tonight, only an individual making a donation is regulate and enforce them? covered. The use of the word “individual” seems to rule Tonight the Government have come the full 180 out the possibility of these provisions covering company degrees and completed their spectacular U-turn on the donations. provisions. In brief, if I were to ask whether these I know the Government will say that in the situation amendments improve the drafting after the Government where an individual gives money to a company with the created such an appalling mess last week, I would say intention of the company then giving that money to a yes: on the Government’s own terms they make bad law party, that might count as the individual making the work better. But do these amendments attempt to answer donation, but that is a very narrowly drawn situation the questions that we raised in order to provide effective, which is rather unlikely to happen. What is more likely fair and workable legislation? No they do not. to happen is for an individual who controls a company As my noble Friend Lord Bates confirmed in the to cause the company to make a donation, and the other place this afternoon, by tabling these amendments, Government seem to have ruled out any control over the Government have created an anomaly in our electoral that particular possibility. I regret that, if it is, indeed, and tax law. A British citizen based overseas will be able the Government’s intention. to vote in our elections and can even stand in our elections, yet he cannot make a donation over £7,500 to Mr. Djanogly: The hon. Gentleman has just gone on a political party. The implementation of this bad law is at some length as to how this is applicable to companies, going to be difficult given the technical issues and but it is my understanding that it never had anything complexities involved, and we insist that the Government whatever to do with companies. The Minister might like do not activate these provisions without the full review to say something about that in his winding-up speech. of their application that will be required. David Howarth: Well, that is an issue that the Minister David Howarth (Cambridge) (LD): Unlike the hon. has to sort out. My belief is that if the original Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Djanogly), I am pleased phraseology—causing a donation to be made—had with the progress that the proposal has made through been used, that could have applied to a situation where the two Houses, ever since an alliance of Liberal Democrats, an individual who controls a company caused the company Labour Back Benchers and Cross Benchers in the Lords to make a donation. That would have been covered. put through an amendment in the name of Lord Campbell- Savours, against the wishes of the Front-Bench teams of the main two parties. It is true that what we are Martin Linton (Battersea) (Lab): Is the hon. Gentleman seeing is ping-pong, with the Government instigating not aware that the Electoral Commission is looking into both sides of the game, rather like The Beano character this particular point right now in relation to Bearwood Billy Whizz, who was able to go around the table Securities, to see whether that company is being caused knocking the ball back to himself and playing his own to make a donation which would be against the existing game. political parties Act even without the very good amendment that is now before the House? Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): Or Forrest Gump. David Howarth: The hon. Gentleman raises the example that is in all our minds. David Howarth: Indeed. There remain two particular issues about the workability, Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. May I inform the hon. scope and breadth of the proposals that I would like to Gentleman that the Speaker has selected his motion for raise. I tabled a series of amendments in a different debate? 685 Political Parties and Elections Bill20 JULY 2009 Political Parties and Elections Bill 686

David Howarth: I am glad to hear that, Mr. Deputy repeating by me. It appears to me that those who are Speaker, but I should explain that the amendments in hell bent on avoiding the spirit of this legislation can my name simply carry into legislative effect the points I still do so, for example, by using a company, as my hon. am making in my speech. Friend has just highlighted. The second issue is to do with commencement. When Although these provisions may be an improvement, will this law come into effect? Under the amendments in the Government have nevertheless probably left enough the form in which they have come back to us from the space to enable those who are absolutely determined to Lords, the provisions before us come into effect only continue their current practices to do so, from a distance when the Minister makes an order, which means they away from the United Kingdom. We can legislate for may never be brought into operation. My amendment the spirit but we cannot legislate against bad faith on this issue would change that, so that these provisions without doing some more. I fear that even with the best would come into effect immediately the Bill receives of intentions, the road to hell will continue to be paved Royal Assent. by bad donations. I am raising this matter now because of a story that appeared in The Observer on Sunday about donors to Mr. Wills: It has been a short and interesting debate. the Labour party who turn out to be non-doms—non- The hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Djanogly) got domiciled. The headline read, “Tycoons pledge to stop extremely indignant about these provisions, although I bankrolling Labour if ‘non-dom’ tax bill passes”. That note that his party did not vote against them when they is a reference to the Bill before us now. The paper gave a first came before this House. I shall be interested to see number of examples, including Lord Paul and Sir Gulam whether his indignation leads him to vote against provisions Noon, who, according to the story, might stop giving that he said are an improvement on last time, given that donations to the Labour party if the provision before us his party did not vote against them, either here or in the is brought into force. other place. As always, I am interested in his contribution It would be a very great shame indeed if the Government and I shall be interested to see whether he takes this were getting cold feet about this provision because they through to a vote. had discovered its effects on the Labour party. The The hon. Gentleman asked one specific question principle here is one that is meant to apply to all parties, about the tax year definition. We recognise that in many and it is one that will affect all parties. It is a good cases “residence” and “domicile” are, in essence—or at principle: those who have distanced themselves from least in large part—retrospective terms, so there are this country by being non-resident and non-domiciled practical difficulties in linking the restriction to the in their tax affairs should not be allowed to influence current year. However, setting the qualifying point as the votes of others through making vast donations. the preceding year equally contains practical difficulties—we have reflected on that—and, in addition, would create a Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby) (Con): I am listening somewhat odd position, whereby a person who at the with great interest to what the hon. Gentleman is saying, time of a donation knows themselves to be a non-resident but was there not someone who went to prison called and non-domiciled could still donate. Michael Brown—that might not be the right name—who gave a great deal of money to the Liberal Democrats, Although we recognise the difficulty for individuals and was he not offshore somewhere and not paying tax and parties of a potential uncertainty about someone’s in this country? tax status during the tax year, we have concluded that if a person wants to make a large political donation—in David Howarth: As I have said, the principle is one other words, one of more than £7,500—it is not that might well apply to all parties. That is why in unreasonable to require them to take steps to ascertain principle it should apply across the board. If hon. their current status. Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs Gentlemen—they are all gentlemen on the Conservative already publishes guidance to help such people ascertain Benches—just want to use this legislation in a partisan their status and, if they are in doubt, they could of way, then they cannot be surprised if other parties take course make a donation below the threshold. the opportunity to use the legislation in a partisan way The hon. Member for Cambridge (David Howarth) against them. asked two specific questions, one of which was about I simply ask the Government to put on the record “causing” donations, and I understand his concerns. precisely when they expect to bring these provisions May I say to him, distinguished lawyer that he is, that into force and, specifically, whether they intend to bring they were based on a misunderstanding of the intention them into force before May next year. behind the original amendments? The amendments tabled by Lord Campbell-Savours sought to require a declaration 9.45 pm from an individual who makes a donation. We sought Lembit Öpik: The debates about representation and to achieve the same effect, and it has never been our taxation have been well rehearsed, so I wish to make a intention, as the hon. Member for Huntingdon pointed single point that I sought to make in intervention on the out, to place a restriction on donations made through Minister. My hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge companies by these standards. Notwithstanding that, I (David Howarth) has exactly underlined the key issue. am not even sure that the hon. Member for Cambridge To those people who agree with the spirit of what is is correct to say that if we used “cause” in the sense that being attempted by this legislation it seems obvious that he would like us to use it, it would capture companies. there is an opportunity to use loopholes to evade its Even if he were correct, it is not the Government’s intention. My question to the Minister is this: how does policy to do that. he believe that he can prevent the evasion of this legislation The hon. Member for Cambridge also asked when by those who use alternative means? Such means have the arrangement would come into effect. As everyone been outlined by my hon. Friend and do not need who has spoken so far has mentioned, these are complex 687 20 JULY 2009 Business without Debate 688

[Mr. Wills] Question agreed to. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing clauses that raise considerable practical difficulties. It is Order No. 118(6)), the intention of this House and the other place that the That the draft Armed Forces (Civilian Courts Dealing with spirit of these clauses should be put into effect, and that Service Offences) (Modification of the Criminal Justice Act 2003) is what we are endeavouring to do, in keeping with our Regulations 2009, which were laid before this House on 8 May, be longstanding policy of pursuing consensus on these approved.—(Helen Jones.) matters. Given their complexity, we are practically unable Question agreed to. to commence provision before the summer of 2010, so we are not proposing to commence the arrangements Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing before then. Equally, we are not envisaging undue delay Order No. 118(6)), after that date. I hope that that will give the hon. That the draft Court Martial (Prosecution Appeals) Order Gentleman some comfort about our intentions in this 2009, which was laid before this House on 2 June, be approved.— (Helen Jones.) matter. Question agreed to. The hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) made a brief but powerful contribution about evasion and he said that what is being proposed would not prevent those who were “absolutely determined” to HALLMARK evade the provisions. He is right: there is no legislation that will make it certain that we can prevent people Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing from evading who are determined to do so, but we have Order No. 118(6)), made the intention behind these provisions clear here That the draft Hallmarking Act 1973 (Application to Palladium) and in the other place, and we expect all political parties Order 2009, which was laid before this House on 24 June, be and donors to abide by that. approved.—(Helen Jones.) Question agreed to. Question put and agreed to. Business without Debate REGULATORY REFORM DEFENCE Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 18(1)), Order No. 118(6)), That the draft Legislative Reform (Limited Partnerships) Order 2009, which was laid before this House on 2 June, be approved.— That the draft Armed Forces (Court Martial) Rules 2009, (Helen Jones.) which were laid before this House on 8 May, be approved.—(Helen Jones.) Question agreed to. 689 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 690 House of Commons Select Committee on Reform of the House updated to reflect the fact that my amendment has been of Commons accepted by the Government. Can the Minister explain that, or put it right? Mr. Speaker: I advise the House that I have selected the amendment in the name of the hon. Member for Barbara Keeley: I am sure that the issue was shortage Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay). of time, and I apologise for any shortcomings in the explanatory memorandum. 9.53 pm The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of Mr. Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con): The Minister the House of Commons (Barbara Keeley): I beg to move, has been forthright with the House in indicating that (1) That a Select Committee be appointed to consider and she agrees with the amendment proposed by my hon. make recommendations on the following matters: Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope) and (a) the appointment of members and chairmen of select committees, she has incorporated it in the motion, but can she (b) the appointment of the Chairman and Deputy Chairmen indicate to the House her attitude and that of the of Ways and Means; Government to amendment (a)? (c) scheduling business in the House; (d) enabling the public to initiate debates and proceedings in Barbara Keeley: I shall come to that question in a the House; and moment, if Members will give me a chance. (e) such other matters as appear to the Committee to be closely connected with the matters set out above, As we have reached agreement on a number of issues, and to report on these matters by 13 November 2009; I hope that the Committee can report quickly so that (2) That the Committee also consider such other matters as the proposed reforms can be considered for implementation may be referred to it from time to time; early in the next Session. The three areas originally put (3) That the Committee consist of eighteen Members; forward for specific consideration are in the motion (4) That Mr Graham Allen, Mr Clive Betts, Mr Graham under paragraph (1): Brady, Mr David Clelland, Mr David Drew, Natascha Engel, “(a) the appointment of members and chairmen of select Dr Evan Harris, David Howarth, Mr Michael Jack, Mr Greg committees… Knight, Mr Elfyn Llwyd, Mr Chris Mullin, Dr Nick Palmer, (c) scheduling business in the House” Martin Salter, Dr Phyllis Starkey, Mr Andrew Tyrie, Dr Tony Wright and Sir George Young be members of the Committee; and (5) That Dr Tony Wright be Chairman of the Committee; “(d) enabling the public to initiate debates and proceedings in (6) That the Committee have power to send for persons, papers the House”. and records, to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House; to adjourn from place to place, to report from time to We have made specific concessions in response to two of time and to appoint specialist advisers; the amendments tabled to the original motion, and I (7) That this Order be a Standing Order of the House until the shall speak about them briefly. end of the present Parliament. First, we have dropped the reference to timetabling On 10 June, the Prime Minister announced in a “non-Government” business. I accept that it is likely in statement to the House his support for the proposal by practice that any changes to the arrangements for scheduling my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase non-Government business could have an impact on (Dr. Wright), the Chairman of the Public Administration Government business, which is why we felt it sensible to Select Committee, to set up a new Committee to consider accept that amendment. We remain firmly of the view reform of the procedures of the House of Commons. that the Government of the day should have adequate The motion before the House today gives effect to that opportunities to put their business to the House and, proposal by establishing a Committee to make subject to the will of the House, to get their business recommendations on the appointment of members and through. I hope the Committee will accept that as an Chairmen of Select Committees, the scheduling of business indication of the kind of recommendation that the in the House, and enabling the public to initiate debates Government are likely to view favourably. and proceedings of the House. Secondly, I know that some prospective members of This Committee will be an important step at looking the Committee were concerned about its terms of reference at how the reform of parliamentary procedure can being drawn too narrowly. We have therefore inserted in achieve stronger accountability of the Government to paragraph (1) new subsection (d), which will allow the Parliament through a larger role for Back-Bench Members Committee to consider other matters that are “closely and the wider public. There have been earlier versions connected” with the main subjects referred to it—[HON. of this motion which attracted amendments. Because MEMBERS: “It’s paragraph (e).”] Okay. Our intention is we are keen to proceed on the basis of consensus for that it should be a contingency provision to allow the this Committee, we withdrew the motion in order to see Committee to consider consequential changes to areas if we could reach a compromise with the hon. Members of procedure that flow naturally from its principal who tabled those amendments. Most recently, we accepted recommendations. the amendment tabled by the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope) and this is now part of the motion before the House today, at paragraph (1)(b). Peter Bottomley (Worthing, West) (Con): The Minister confirms that since another sub-paragraph was included, Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): I am paragraph (1)(d) has become (1)(e), and I think that is grateful to the Minister for accepting my amendment, what she is referring to. Does she agree that it would which had cross-party support on an important issue. have been slightly more elegant if the Committee had However, the explanatory memorandum has not been been allowed to elect its own Chairman? 691 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 692 House of Commons House of Commons Barbara Keeley: We are talking about a proposal that the motion about to be moved by the Vice-Chamberlain from my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase of Her Majesty’s Household will be moved in moderately (Dr. Wright). amended form, in recognition of the fact that the motions I shall recommend that the House resist the amendment relating to Defence and to Hallmark in the names of the tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock Secretary of State for Defence and the Minister for (Andrew Mackinlay). First, it involves a substantial Business, Innovation and Skills have already been addressed. issue in its own right and I do not think it would be wise to add further items to the Committee’s agenda for the DEFERRED DIVISIONS very short period before it reports. More importantly, the proposal for Ministers in another place to appear Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing before this House has implications for the work of both Order No. 41A(3)), Houses and that is, therefore, not an area in which a That, at this day’s sitting, Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred Select Committee of one House could come to a set of divisions) shall not apply to the Motion in the name of Ms Harriet Harman relating to the Select Committee on Reform recommendations that would be acceptable to both of the House of Commons.—(Helen Jones.) Houses. Question agreed to. Mr. Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con): I am interested in the fact that the Minister says there will be BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE only a short period, because it seems to me that there are four months before the Committee is due to report. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing We do not believe all that nonsense in the papers about Order No. 15), going on holiday for 82 days: the Committee is perfectly That, at this day’s sitting, (1) consideration of any Lords able to sit during the summer recess and reach its Messages that may be received and (2) the Motion in the name of recommendations. Given that the Committee is due to Ms Harriet Harman relating to the Select Committee on Reform of the House of Commons may be proceeded with, though report by 13 November—a specific date five days before opposed, until any hour.—(Helen Jones.) the state opening of Parliament—can the Minister confirm that if it makes specific recommendations the Government Question agreed to. will consider them and put proposals before Parliament Main Question again proposed. in the Queen’s Speech so that they can be passed in the new Session of Parliament and take effect at the earliest 10.1 pm opportunity? Mr. Vara: To recap, broadly speaking, Members are Barbara Keeley: I very much hope that the work of of the view that there ought to be some review of the the Committee will bring fruit in terms of reform in the Select Committee system and the procedures of the next Session. House. Finally, I have been impressed by the strength of Conservative Members have been talking about the feeling on both sides of the House—as is evident here issue for quite some time. Our party’s democracy taskforce, tonight—in support of the work of the new Committee. chaired by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member I hope that the Committee can conduct a focused for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), has made several suggestions inquiry that will bear fruit in terms of reform, and I to re-energise proceedings in the House. My right hon. commend the motion to the House. Friend the Leader of the Opposition has specifically called for more powers to be returned to Parliament 9.59 pm and, in particular, for Committee Chairmen to be selected by Back Benchers and for Committee proceedings on Mr. Shailesh Vara (North-West Cambridgeshire) (Con): Bills to be free from the influence of the Whips. That is Many Members present agree that the business of the where much of the detailed work is done, and it is felt House can and should be planned and handled much that Back Benchers should have freedom to operate on better than it is at present. Many also agree that we their own merits, rather than be pressured by Whips. I could improve the existing Select Committee system. welcome the fact that all those matters fall under the There is general consensus on the need to do more to remit of the proposed Committee. I know that Members re-engage the Commons with the public, particularly serving on the Committee—certainly Conservative given the low esteem in which Parliament is currently Members—will be pressing for such constructive reforms held. For our part, Conservative Members have been to help rebuild our parliamentary system. proposing such changes for quite some time. Our party’s democracy taskforce— It is also right that the new Select Committee should be time-limited. That will ensure that it does not supplant the role of the Procedure Committee, and will concentrate 10 pm minds on the limited time available in which to draw The debate stood adjourned (Standing Order No. 9(3)). conclusions and report back. Mr. Speaker: Order. I apologise for having to interrupt I am pleased that the Government accepted the the shadow Deputy Leader of the House and for amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for interrupting the flow of his eloquence in the process. Christchurch (Mr. Chope). Given the delays and lack of We will return to him before very long. At this point, proper consultation in the run-up to the tabling of the the House will understand, the appointed hour of 10 o’clock motion, it was perhaps the least that the Government having been reached, there are two motions with which could do in the circumstances. we need to deal before we can continue the debate. The The amendment in the name of the hon. Member for first is on the subject of deferred divisions, and it may Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay), raises a very valid point. be for the convenience of the House simply to explain The recent growth in the number of Cabinet Ministers, 693 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 694 House of Commons House of Commons and junior Ministers too, in the other place, and the in which the Government have gone about it has been ever-expanding titles of the First Secretary of State extraordinarily disappointing and, in the end, rather make the subject extremely topical. There is justifiable enervating. concern in all parts of the House about how we can Not to consult about the original motion in advance ensure that the Government are properly and effectively indicates everything that we need to know about how held to account. No doubt Members will have their own the Government do their business. The motion was views on the amendment itself, and it will perhaps be quintessentially a House matter, where we needed support for the Chairman of the Committee to suggest that the from all parts of the House, yet there it was, appearing question of making Members of the other House on the Order Paper at 24 hours’ notice, as much as to accountable should be looked at in another way. I say: “Like it or lump it—this is the way it is going to be suspect that given the time constraint—although I hear done.” When some of us tabled amendments immediately what my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean on reading the motion, because we realised that it (Mr. Harper) said earlier—and the fact that the Committee would not do the job that was expected of it, it was has no members from the other House, the issue may withdrawn, so we were left without the very Committee need further consideration. that we were all so keen should be set up. It is also worth pointing out that the way in which the motion has been handled beggars belief. It is a simple Barbara Keeley: As I have already said, the motion motion that is supposed to improve the efficiency of the was withdrawn to allow for consultation. It is rather House, yet the manner in which it has been handled has churlish of Opposition Members to deny that consultation. been slipshod, to put it mildly. The Prime Minister said We withdrew the motion so that we could incorporate in his statement in June that the Government would ideas and amendments into it. “work with a special parliamentary commission”.—[Official Report, Mr. Heath: The motion was withdrawn because it 10 June 2009; Vol. 493, c. 797.] was incompetent, because it did not have the support of Given the number of existing Select Committees well Members in all parts of the House and because, had my qualified to deal with the issue, such as the Modernisation amendment been put to the vote, it would have been Committee and the Procedure Committee, it is regrettable supported by Members in all parts of the House and that yet another Committee has had to be set up. The the Government would have been defeated. That is why problem was compounded by the fact that the Prime the Government withdraw the motion in the first instance. Minister did not consult anybody in advance on a All that could have been avoided if they had simply matter that is basically House business. All that seemed picked up the phone to a few people from all parts of to be of concern to him was his press release. the House and said, “What do you think of this motion? Then there was the indecisiveness. Less than 24 hours Do you think it would do what you hope it would?” after being tabled, the motion was withdrawn. On However, I am afraid that organising that proved to be 26 June, the Deputy Leader of the House told us, as is beyond the abilities of the business managers of the recorded in column 967 of Hansard, that that was done Government party. so that there could be consultation and the motion Mr. Bernard Jenkin (North Essex) (Con): I understand could proceed on a “consensual” basis. Given that two the hon. Gentleman’s frustration; indeed, I signed his weeks had passed since the Prime Minister’s statement, amendment. It would have been refreshing, in a way, if there had already been plenty of time for consultation. the Government had allowed his amendment to be Clearly the Government preferred not to be consensual debated and then accepted it or been defeated. My only at that point. problem with his approach is that there is a tendency on Only now are we finally getting the chance to debate the part of Front Benchers to feel that if they make a the establishment of a Select Committee on the reform few phone calls, there has been consultation. There are of the House, some seven weeks after the Prime Minister’s 646 Members of this House who often feel left out of announcement, in which he spoke of proceeding with such consultations, and I regard the to-ing and fro-ing these matters as an “urgent imperative”. We are now on the Order Paper as a rather refreshing change. I faced with having to debate this important matter after would not dismiss the generosity of the Government in 10 o’clock on the day before the summer recess. I very the way that they eventually handled this. much hope that the new Committee will take that as an example of how proceedings in this House should not Mr. Heath: “Eventually” is the operative word. I was operate in future. at pains not to say “two phone calls” because that would indeed have been the usual channels deciding between themselves what was right for Back Benchers. 10.6 pm Instead a lot of people who had expressed an interest in Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): I very the matter could have been involved at an early stage in much welcome the fact that we are finally debating the what was proposed, and we could have had a consensual motion, albeit in an amended form. However, the motion before the House. revolutionary zeal with which the original proposal was I do not decry the fact that the Government eventually made has rather evaporated in the mean time. I hoped took away their motion and incorporated my amendment; that we would have a genuinely root-and-branch reform it would be extraordinarily bad-tempered and unpleasant of the way this House works, because many things need of me not to welcome that. What I find inexplicable, to be addressed if we are to make it more effective and though, is that having agreed that that was what was more relevant, and work better for the interests of our going to happen, it took the Government from 26 June constituents. I thought that the proposal for the new to this very day to find any time whatsoever in the Committee might be a vehicle for some genuinely radical parliamentary timetable to enable the motion to be reforms of procedures. It may still be that, but the way debated so that we could make a decision. Are they 695 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 696 House of Commons House of Commons [Mr. Heath] Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): Was my hon. Friend not worried when the Government, in their really saying that in nearly four weeks we could not have presentation of their reason for permitting the widening found an hour and a half—that is all that it would have of the motion, said that the consideration of non- been needed—to debate this matter and get it through? Government business might impact on Government Of course we could have done that. One of the paradoxes business? They did not recognise that the House as a that several Members have commented on in recent whole had a legitimate interest in the issue of how weeks is that this motion is about trying to organise our effectively Government business is considered. Although business in a way that suits the House rather than the the Government have the right to bring their business Executive, yet we have been prevented from debating it before the House, the House must have the capacity to for three or four weeks because the Executive decided decide how it can most effectively examine it. that the House could not have the time to discuss its business. That is a fundamental flaw in the Government’s Mr. Heath: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. approach. Of course, that is the crux of the matter. The question is whether we are a self-confident legislature that organises Mr. Harper: The hon. Gentleman is being overly its own time, hears what the Government have to say generous to the Government in saying that they allowed and gives the Government the opportunity to put forward this evening’s debate. They allowed it to happen only their legislation while not artificially avoiding the because if they had not done so, and the motion had opportunities for them to get their business through. been objected to again today and tomorrow, they would However, at the same time, we must be prepared to do not have got their business—because they were forced justice to the people we represent by debating in this into it, not because they wanted us to debate the motion. Chamber what we want to debate, not what the Executive Mr. Heath: My difficulty with what the hon. Gentleman feel fit for us to debate—and, more importantly, what says is that this is not the Government’s business but they feel is fit for us not to debate, which is the situation ours—it is the business of the House in reforming itself at the moment. and making itself more relevant. I am trying to express my frustration at the fact that this debate has been held Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): While I up by our not being allowed the modest amount of time entirely agree with the comments made by the right that would have been required to have it at a much hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith), earlier stage. does the hon. Gentleman not agree that the only way The hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) that this House can achieve what he has set out is to could have had his Committee up and running—it take control of Standing Orders? That is critical if we could have been doing its work and, in due course, have are to do what this House wants. reported on everything that we wanted it to report on. Instead, it has been frustrated by the lack of time and Mr. Heath: I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. the objections of Members. I do not object to the fact First we take Standing Orders, then we take business. that the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope) The two are consecutive and, to some extent, simultaneous. shouted “Object” every time that the motion came up, Without one, we cannot control the other. That is what because he had every right to do so if he wanted to this debate is all about—it is about this House getting debate the matter; what was wrong was the fact that no up off its knees and reclaiming its position as the time was then given to enable the debate to take place. Parliament of the people of this country, which is able That was entirely in the hands of the Government. to control its own business. This position is not anti- Government of any description; it is simply a pro- Mr. David Drew (Stroud) (Lab/Co-op) rose— Parliament position. Parliament must have its say, and must be able to do so on its own terms. I hope that that Mr. Heath: I was trying to be very brief, but of course is what the Committee will enable it to do and that it I give way. will get to work in the very near future. Mr. Drew: If the usual channels cannot discuss this, I am pleased with the specific amendments that have what do they discuss? widened the reference to the scheduling of business to include all business in the House, so that the Committee Mr. Heath: I am not a member of the usual channels. can consider other matters that appear to it to be I do not know who they comprise of and I have no idea relevant. I am perfectly content that the amendment how they reach their decisions—all I know is that they originally tabled by the hon. Member for Christchurch often bypass the wishes of most Members of this House. has now been incorporated into the terms of reference. That is what is wrong, and that is why we need a proper As for the amendment tabled by the hon. Member for business Committee, which I hope will be determined to Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay), we will hear his reasoning be the right course of action. That Committee should in a few moments. I know perfectly well the point that set out the business of the House in a way that facilitates he is making, because it is a point that I have made from debate, ensures that we deal with the issues that are these Benches, too. It is simply not acceptable to have important to Members of this House, and does not junior messengers sent to this House to tell us what the frustrate the Government’s business—that would not policy is in major Departments of State, particularly be the purpose of a well-organised Committee—but when one Department of State appears to have swallowed allows the House to debate properly, in good time, the up whole other Departments within the machinery of things that are considered to be important and that government without our ever being given a rationale for Members feel that they need to express their constituents’ why that should be. It seems right that we should find a opinions on. way in which a Secretary of State appointed by this 697 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 698 House of Commons House of Commons Government can answer directly to this House. Whether Mr. Harper: Given that I suspect that the hon. it is right for this Committee to do that in its first Gentleman’s view is shared by many hon. Members, consideration, I do not know. That will be a matter for does he plan to take the temperature of the House and the Committee to decide when it considers its priorities. press the amendment to a Division? He would get much I note that the reporting date is 13 November, but I am support if he did. absolutely clear and confident that that matter needs to be addressed. The amendment is as good a vehicle as Andrew Mackinlay: If hon. Members will join me in any other for addressing it, and I look forward to the Lobby and help me with Tellers, I will be pleased to hearing what the hon. Gentleman has to say. press the amendment. Even if I were not able to persuade Given that 13 November has propinquity, as has been the House tonight because of party loyalties and so on, pointed out, to the Queen’s Speech, I wonder what will it would send a definite signal to the Government that happen if we prorogue early. Perhaps the Deputy Leader the matter needs to be addressed and to many Committees of the House can tell us and can make it absolutely clear of the House that might have an opportunity to examine that the Committee’s report will be considered by the it. However, I hope that I would win. I appeal to hon. House at the first opportunity, that it will form the basis Members to reflect on the fact that we are considering of proposals and that its recommendations will be put House of Commons business, which is our property. to the House. I do not mean we should consider those The Deputy Leader of the House said that the matter recommendations that the Leader of the House thinks was also the business of another place. However, I might be appropriate, but that the recommendations of know Members of the House of Lords who share my the Committee should be put to the House without view. I suspect that if one our colleagues in the other being redacted. We want no blank spaces or black lines place raised the matter there, Baroness Royall would on the recommendations of the Committee when we say, “I can’t accept this because it might offend Members consider them. When they come before the House, I of the House of Commons.” That is nonsense. If the hope that there will be a genuinely free vote so that matter were referred to the Committee, the House of every Member can exercise their own judgment and Lords would clearly be consulted. If it collectively had discretion about how we operate in this Chamber and an overriding objection, it would communicate it to the will not be subject to inappropriate pressure from the House of Commons. However, I believe that reference Whips, the payroll or anybody else. On that basis, I to the Committee would be welcomed in another place support the motion. because it would thus also have access to Ministers, who are the architects of legislation that has to pass through 10.19 pm the House of Lords, but is simply dealt with by somebody Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab): I beg to move called a Lord or Lady in Waiting. amendment (a), line 3, at end insert— ‘( ) arrangements for Ministers who are members of the House Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Surely the of Lords to respond in this House to questions for oral answer Deputy Leader of the House fears nothing because the and to pilot legislative proposals through this House on matters First Secretary, the noble Lord Mandelson, would be within their Ministerial responsibilities.’. delighted to get back into this Chamber. I am grateful to you, Mr. Speaker, for selecting the amendment because it is important to me and many Andrew Mackinlay: I am coming to him. I invite other Members who have, in the past, expressed support particularly, but not exclusively Labour Members with for the principles in it. long memories to reflect on the fact that when some of The amendment does not tell the Committee that it them entered politics—I did so a long time ago; some should allow Ministers who are Members of the House did so much more recently and have been through of Lords to appear here, but asks it to examine the various parties, moving from left to right, but we will proposal. I am dismayed and disappointed by the Leader not go there—the Labour party under Hugh Gaitskell of the House’s refusal to accept my amendments, especially and later under the Leader of the Opposition, Harold when she accepts those of the hon. Member for Wilson, deprecated the fact that the Foreign Secretary Christchurch (Mr. Chope), which are doubtless very was in the House of Lords. Lord Hailsham had a good. I wonder what I have done to offend Front significant science portfolio at the same time. When Ted Benchers. I emphasise that the amendment involves a Heath became Prime Minister, Alec Home returned to reference rather than an instruction to the Committee. the House of Lords as Foreign Secretary. More recently I am surprised because after the most recent Government Michael Foot, and I believe some Members who are reshuffle, I know of many hon. Members—particularly present, derided the fact that Lord Carrington was a but not exclusively Labour Members—who were dismayed Cabinet Minister in the House of Lords. I invite Labour by the volume of Ministers who are now in another Members to be consistent, not to waver, because they place. Some hon. Members were appalled by that. have deprecated this situation in the past. Personally, I simply want to have access to the Ministers— You will recall, Mr. Speaker, that there was also a those who are in Government and have Executive authority. man called Lord Young in Margaret Thatcher’s There is a powerful case for claiming that Ministers do Government—the man who brought her solutions. He not have to be members of the legislature; the important had a very senior portfolio, not dissimilar to Lord principle is that the legislature has access to them. Mandelson’s. It was called something different, but Perhaps that is to go too far tonight, but I simply want basically it meant he was responsible for trade and to probe and examine the conduct and stewardship of industry. His membership of the House of Lords was Departments by Ministers, whether they are in the deprecated by the Labour Opposition, who said we House of Commons or the House of Lords. Probing should have access to him. That is in the living memory and examining the Executive is one of our primary duties. of some Members who are sitting here tonight and of 699 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 700 House of Commons House of Commons [Andrew Mackinlay] Ministers on occasion. They would not be able to cope, and that is not satisfactory. They are being kept from us, some who are absent despite the fact that they have and some of them would not be prepared to be Ministers been anointed and appear on the motion as members of here, because they would burst into tears if they came the Committee. People need to reflect on that. here. That is the reality. They would not pass muster. Now we have a new invention called GOATs—Ministers The Minister tells us that there was consultation. I in a Government of all the talents. We have had a man was waiting for her to say “My hon. Friend the Member called Digby Jones, a Lord Carter, a Lord Ryde Pier of for Thurrock could have come along,” but she did not. Spittle, or Spithead, or whatever it is, and Malloch-Brown, In a way, I did consult, and I am disappointed that my who I incidentally thought was a breath of fresh air. point was not taken on board. If Members look at the [HON.MEMBERS: “Gone.”] But he is gone. Hansard of 17 June, they will see that I put the issue to As well as those GOATs, who are here today and the Prime Minister at Question Time. With characteristic gone tomorrow, there are some junior Ministers in the precision, and without indecision, the Prime Minister House of Lords whose names I do not know and agreed with me, and told me to refer the matter to the whom, as a Labour MP, I have never met. I think that it Committee that we are discussing. That was his reply. If was just before you became Speaker, Mr. Speaker, in the the Prime Minister says to me that the issue should last Prime Minister’s Question Time under Speaker come before the Committee, it is not unreasonable to Martin, that I referred to junior Ministers who act in assume that the wonderful Ministers would put that the other House for the Secretary of State—the architect into the wording of the motion. of legislation and the person who presides over the Government’s policy—as “superior parrots”. I did not Mr. Harper: I sense a way out of the dilemma: now mean that disparagingly, but I was illustrating the point that the hon. Gentleman has put it to Labour Members that when a junior Minister is acting for a Secretary of that his amendment implicitly carries the endorsement State who is not in the same House, all they can do is of the Prime Minister, he should test the will of the repeat what has been handed down to them in a brief. House. He will be even more successful than he would They cannot exercise discretion and say, “We will accept have been five minutes ago. that amendment”, or “We will come back to it on Report”, because they are frightened of doing so. It Andrew Mackinlay: As hon. Members know, it is put would improve our legislative process if the architect of about that the Prime Minister is indecisive, but that is a a piece of legislation were to pilot it through both travesty; on that occasion he was decisive—he told me Houses. to refer the matter to the Committee, but Ministers still have not picked the matter up. That is quite apart from parliamentary questions, where even more so, the more junior the Minister, the I come to my last point. The fact is that the proposal more nervous he or she is about saying anything is not rocket science. In the vast majority of parliamentary constructive. I appeal to colleagues that to consider the bicameral legislatures around the world, Ministers appear matter would be a common-sense approach. in both Houses, arguing for their legislation, and defending their stewardship of their Department. That is true of Lynne Jones (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Would many, but not all, Parliaments that are modelled on that not require the Prime Minister and Lord Mandelson Westminster throughout the Commonwealth. I am a bit to pilot every Bill? of an anorak—a student—when it comes to Irish political history. The Republic of Ireland very much still has a Westminster-style constitution. The Northern Ireland Andrew Mackinlay: Not so, because this works both House of Commons and Senate, which endured from ways. There are still a number of distinguished Ministers 1920 to 1972, had, until 1972, a provision whereby in the House of Commons, and they would be able to Ministers appeared in both Houses. Today, Ministers go to the House of Lords. There are also some very appear in both Houses in the Oireachtas of Ireland. significant Ministers in the House of Lords. Until a few Dail Eireann Ministers appear in the Senead, and on days ago our Minister with responsibility for the UN the few occasions when there have been Senead Ministers, and the middle east was Lord Malloch-Brown, and I they have appeared in the Dail Eireann. The proposal is understand that Lord West of Spithead is the Security not world-shattering, and it does not require lengthy Minister. Colleagues and comrades should pause and consideration. Why do we not just do it? The answer is: think about it: this is the elected House of Commons, because this place is so deeply conservative. and we do not have access to the Minister who is in charge of national security.Surely that is both breathtaking What causes me the most regret is that the most and an abdication of responsibility by this place. conservative element, when it comes to change and constitutional innovation, are my party’s Front Benchers. I could burst into tears with the frustration of it. It Mr. William Cash (Stone) (Con): Given that the hon. really is bad. I invite all hon. Members, left right and Gentleman refers to senior parrots, would he therefore centre, to join me in the Lobby and to support my characterise Lord Mandelson as a senior cockatoo? modest, sensible amendment, which does not say that such a change will take place; it just says that the Andrew Mackinlay: I do not want to go down that Committee will consider it. road, but one thing that I acknowledge is that Lord Mandelson could certainly cope in this place. He did 10.32 pm before, and he could do so again as a Lord. However, I postulate the view that there are some Ministers in the Sir George Young (North-West Hampshire) (Con): House of Lords who could not cope here. They would Not for the first time, the House is indebted to the hon. not stand up to the grilling that this House still gives Member for Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay) for raising 701 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 702 House of Commons House of Commons a serious constitutional issue. He is right to say that Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) as its new over the past few years, in Government, there has been Chairman. That would have saved everyone a lot of a shift in the centre of gravity of decision making from time, we would have benefited from his energy and this House to the other place. That shift has been ideas, and we could have started work some seven weeks focused in the Treasury and the new Department for ago. But that idea was not acceptable to the Government. Business, Innovation and Skills. That raises issues of My last point is about the delay. We have lost about accountability, which he touched on with his normal half the sitting time of the new Committee because of frankness and candour. the delay in setting it up. There was an inelegance—to I should like to qualify what the hon. Gentleman said put it at its mildest—in the lack of consultation and in about precedents. I think that I am right in saying that the delay in getting the show on the road. We are now when my party had Cabinet Ministers in the House of going to have to work at double time to catch up the Lords, there was a Cabinet Minister in the Commons time that we have lost. We are also going to have to sit who answered with them or for them. In the case of during the recess. The hon. Member for Cannock Chase Lord Young—no relation at all—my right hon. and has set a cracking pace for his Committee, in setting the learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) agenda and convening a huge number of meetings. was in the Cabinet and answered for the Department in The real test will be what happens to the Committee’s the Commons. The criticism that I would make of the work when it has reported. I have to say that the signals present Government is that they have not replicated over the past seven weeks, given the difficulties we have that pattern of having Cabinet-rank Ministers in the faced getting this far, do not augur well. I hope that the Commons, accountable to this House. Minister will give us a specific commitment that, before I have a lot of sympathy with the point that the hon. we rise for the Christmas recess, there will be a substantive Member for Thurrock raised, and we need to look at it. debate in Government time, with a free vote on both My only reservation, given the amount of time that the sides of the House, on all the recommendations of the proposed Committee has already lost, is whether we Committee. That would give us time to resolve the can do justice to the important issue that he raises in the matter and get the new machinery up and running in remaining time available to us, or whether the subject is the tail end of this Parliament. I hope that the Minister of such importance that it deserves separate scrutiny of will understand that the mood of the House is one of its own, so that it can be looked at in depth. If it is impatience and of anxiety to make progress, and I hope tagged on to the responsibilities already proposed, we that when she replies to the debate—which could happen may not be able to do the subject justice. tomorrow, given the number of Members who want to In my brief contribution, I want to make three points. speak—she will give a very positive response to the First, we should be grateful for small mercies: just points that I and other right hon. and hon. Members before the House rises for the recess, the Government have made. have at last found time for a debate, so that we can get this show on the road. As the hon. Member for Somerton 10.38 pm and Frome (Mr. Heath) pointed out, it would have been perverse if a Committee set up to make better use of the Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent, Central) (Lab): I time of the House could not start working because the congratulate the Government on at last giving us time Government had denied it the time to do so. I am glad to discuss this vital Committee. I also congratulate that we are now going to look at this. As my hon. Friend them and the House on setting up the Committee and the Member for North-West Cambridgeshire (Mr. Vara) on choosing an extremely good Chair, who I believe has said, the democracy taskforce, on which I have served, the support of all parts of the House, and an excellent has been brimming with ideas that I hope will be fed membership of people with a great deal of interest in, into the new Committee. and experience and knowledge of, these matters. The Deputy Leader did not really explain why we The matters that we are giving the Committee to need a new Committee. We have a Select Committee on discuss are of historic importance, because they will Procedure, chaired by my right hon. Friend the Member correct the imbalance that has been growing since the for East Yorkshire (Mr. Knight), and a Select Committee House gave up control of its own agenda and allowed on Modernisation. The latter cannot be described as the Executive to determine the business of the House in being overworked, because it has not met for more than order to break the impasse on Irish reform. For the past a year. The terms of reference for the proposed Committee 120 years, we have been on a sliding slope, and over the fall neatly within those of either the Procedure Committee past few years we have been mere ciphers. In my 26 years or the Modernisation Committee. The Deputy Leader as a Member of this House, we have effectively been a did not explain why we need a new vehicle, which has rubber stamp for the Executive, and we must now assert had to be constructed and assembled, causing some our own distinct identity. seven or eight weeks’ delay, when we have two vehicles This is a matter not of attacking the Government, already on the road and ready to go. They could have but of understanding that the role of the House is started work on this process immediately. Indeed, the separate and distinct from that of the Government. The Procedure Committee has already looked at one of the Government are elected to introduce a programme of subjects that are to be addressed by the new Committee— legislation and to recommend taxation, and it is our job namely, engagement with the public and e-petitions. to scrutinise them—but it is our job to do so in our My ingenious solution—which I am sorry the time, and in our way, and not at the behest of the Government did not adopt—was to dismiss as Chairman Government. of the Modernisation Committee the Leader of the That is why it is important not only that we set up this House, who has no business being Chairman of a Select Committee to look at the business of the House, but Committee of the House, and parachuting in the hon. that the Committee understands the definition of “the 703 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 704 House of Commons House of Commons [Mark Fisher] of the Committee, including its Chairman, to listen and gauge the feeling of the House, which will inform the business of the House”, which includes everything for way in which they conduct the Committee. If for no which the Government do not have a mandate, especially other reason than that, it was surely worth having a the nature and method of scrutiny. That is why the debate in this Chamber. House must not only elect Select Committees but be in control of scrutiny. It is our job to scrutinise the Executive, Mr. Jenkin: My hon. Friend is entirely right about not the Executive’s job to tell us who should be on that point. Committees, when they should sit or when there should be a vote. The importance of this moment is that it grows out of We have allowed the Executive to dominate this House the crisis that we have all endured as a result of the increasingly for the last 100 years. At last—thanks to publication of our expenses and allowances. That issue this Government, thanks to the Committee chaired did not just excite public anger; it was a lighting conductor by my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase for the fury felt by many people—not just about how (Dr. Wright) and thanks, I am confident, to the work politics has been conducted in this country in the past that it is going to do—we will have an opportunity to 10 or 15 years, but, as the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, correct that imbalance and have a proper relationship Central said, about a trend reflecting, particularly in the between this House, which is scrutinising the Government, post-war era, the ever-increasing ascendancy of party and the Government, who are getting on with the work over the individual judgment of Members of Parliament. of the Executive. The two should be in proper tension. I What is the House of Commons, or Parliament, for? am confident that with the business Committee and the Surely we exist for three fundamental purposes: to election of Select Committees and their Chairs, we will check the abuse of power by the Executive; to ensure make enormous strides towards getting a proper relationship that legislation is properly scrutinised and is fit for between this House and the Executive. If we do that, we purpose; and to ensure that taxpayers’ money is spent will be doing something of enormous historic importance. wisely and efficiently. In all honesty, has the House been I hope that the Committee will be set up and will report. doing a good job over the past 10, 20 or 30 years? I am confident that it will and that it will do an Actually, we have been doing less and less of that job. extremely important job. More and more legislation goes through without being debated. Fewer and fewer Supply debates are about 10.42 pm Supply and scrutiny of the Executive’s expenditure. It Mr. Bernard Jenkin (North Essex) (Con): I believe has become harder and harder to check the power of that the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, Central (Mark the Executive, as more power has been handed over to Fisher) is unnecessarily modest about his own role in agencies, quangos, the courts, Brussels or the European bringing the House of Commons to this point. He is Court of Human Rights. Whatever part of the House chairman of a cross-party group: we call ourselves one comes from, one can choose one’s list of organisations Parliament First, and we have been agitating for Parliament to which power is handed over, which destroys the to have a greater role and a greater say in its own affairs. accountability and authority of the House. We have a list of aspirations—“demands” would put it I put it to those on the Treasury Bench, and to too strongly—to put Parliament back at the centre of anyone who aspires to sit there, that there is a fundamental our national life. The hon. Gentleman has played a truth about our democracy: the weaker that Parliament welcome role in that. His warm words for the Government becomes, the weaker the Governments who derive from in bringing us to this point are all part of the consensual Parliament become. It is an irony that respect for politics atmosphere that we need to generate around this proposal. and politicians has declined as the power of the House It struck me as odd that while we were attempting to of Commons has declined. I do not dismiss the difficulty set up a Committee to strengthen the House’s control of of exercising representative democracy in a world in its business and its Select Committee, the Government which 1.5 billion people are on the internet and expect imagined that that could be achieved without debating their say over every issue, in what we now call the the motion. It is, as the hon. Member for Somerton and network world. The world is very different from that Frome (Mr. Heath) said, an irony that underlines the conceived by, say, the 1832 reformers, or by Edmund gulf between those in government or who aspire to Burke, who coined the immortal phrases about government and the rest of this House. representative democracy and Members exercising their There was a failure of imagination among those on judgment on behalf of their constituents in the national the Treasury Bench. They thought that simply accepting interest, rather than being their delegates. the amendments and including them in the motion Ultimately, the more complicated government and would obviate the need for debate, but that was to politics become, the more inevitable it is that those who underestimate what this House thinks of itself, and, devote their lives to politics and to service in Parliament indeed, what my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch will have to exercise their judgment on behalf of the (Mr. Chope) thinks of himself. I think that he was 99 per cent. of the population who are far too busy unfairly criticised in The Guardian leading article today. leading a normal life to worry about the things that His behaviour was not bizarre; it was principled. He we worry about. insisted that if we were to strengthen the House, we should do it by the proper procedure and on the basis of debate. Mr. John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con): Is not the deeper irony that as the process Mr. Harper: One thing that our hon. Friend the described by my hon. Friend has occurred—Parliament Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope) has achieved is has become more emasculated—expectations of both to provide an opportunity for a large number of members Government and individual MPs have grown? Does not 705 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 706 House of Commons House of Commons that deep irony lie at the heart of this debate, and of the by defeating the Government in the Division Lobbies. wider debate that has taken place over the past few That may be a healthy development and a healthy weeks and months? response, but I do not think that it necessarily demonstrates that the House is working more effectively than it used Mr. Jenkin: My hon. Friend makes an extremely to. The fact that so much legislation now passes through apposite point, and I do not hold an instant answer to the House without debate and has to be scrutinised at the problem he raises. The demands on individual Members length in the other place—and even the other place has of Parliament are less and less to conduct ourselves as a difficult job, given the present volume of legislation— national politicians in this Chamber, and more and leaves a serious gap in the armoury enabling our Parliament more to act as super-ombudsmen and super-councillors—as to hold the Government to account. representatives of our national Parliament in our constituencies, as opposed to representatives of our Lynne Jones: The hon. Gentleman has partly answered constituents’ interests in Parliament. That is the context the question that I was going to ask. He has said that in which the Committee will have to conduct its delay means that the Government may give way and investigations and inquiries and make its recommendations. concessions may be extracted. I do not want to return to that scenario; I should like Members to engage fully As result of the crisis that has occurred, we have all in the debate about legislation, and then vote according been humiliated—I have certainly felt humiliated. That to the strength of the arguments. How can we ensure has served as a reminder of the real purpose of each of that, rather than returning to an old situation, we move our existences in the House. It has been telling to see forward to a situation of that kind? exposed how ineffective we have become at performing our real task, which is to check the abuse of power, to Mr. Jenkin: The hon. Lady has led me precisely to my check the legislation, and to check the expenditure of next point. The task of the business Committee will not the Executive. be to return us to the war of attrition represented by the I feel that there is now a drive—a determination—in ludicrous all-night sittings of Committees and the whole the House to put matters right. I do not want to raise House, although I believe that we lose something by our expectations beyond what might be delivered by the determination not to engage in such action. Here we are Committee chaired by the hon. Member for Cannock sitting at 10.55 on a Monday night, and I see no Chase (Dr. Wright), but I believe that, of all the reactions difficulty with our sitting late on occasion when there is to the expenses and allowances crisis, this is the most pressure on the timetable and no other way of conducting significant. It may be a small first step, but it is the most our business. significant; and the most significant step that the Committee It strikes me as extremely frustrating when stacks of might recommend is one that would enable us to regain Members want to speak in a debate and the Government control over our own business. limit it to five hours and will not lift the 10 o’clock rule For most of the period since the debate about Irish to allow more Members to speak—and indeed more rule, the only constraint on Government business has Members to speak at length. There may be an advantage been the power of delay. Even during the 1970s and in limiting speeches to 12, 10, eight or six minutes in one 1980s, when the guillotine began to fall more and more respect, but I believe that it destroys the real purpose of often on Government business in order to expedite its this Chamber, which is to debate the issues and to allow progress, delay was still the weapon. When, as shadow every Member to speak and to take part in those Secretary of State for Transport, I conducted the Bill debates. that became the Transport Act 2000 through its Standing Committee, it was decided that we should delay the Bill Sir Nicholas Winterton: Is my hon. Friend aware that, for as long as possible on a particular point because we when the Modernisation Committee initially put forward were so concerned about it. That kind of attrition is its proposals for programme motions, it was intended no longer available to the House. What is termed that the programme motion should be discussed at least “modernisation”—and I think that even the most ardent between the usual channels before it was taken immediately advocates of modernisation would recognise that it has after the Second Reading Division and without debate. become a loaded term when connected with parliamentary The decency of having some consultation before the reform—has come to mean emasculation. It has meant programme motion was put down was withdrawn by the withdrawal of that final sanction. the Government. It is interesting to note that the former Leader of the Mr. Jenkin: It is interesting that my hon. Friend House, now the Secretary of State for Justice, said should remind the House of that. It shows that efforts during debate on the Parliamentary Standards Bill that have been made to do programming in an intelligent he believed that Parliament had become more effective way.I was an Opposition spokesman on the two devolution in recent years. He holds that belief because the number Bills at the beginning of this Government’s term of of Divisions that the Government have lost has begun office. Our great fear was that there was going to be an to increase, despite the enormous majority that the arbitrary guillotine that cut off debate on vast swathes Government have enjoyed in recent years. of the Bill that we wanted to discuss. We proposed to the Government that there should be Lynne Jones: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? timetabling of the devolution Bills. It was quite controversial at the time. Many of my colleagues in the House were Mr. Jenkin: I will in a second. quite cross that we should co-operate in that way, but I submit that the reason the Government are now we calculated where the knives should fall during the losing Divisions is that the weapon of delay is no longer Committee stage to ensure that the really important bits available. Whereas concessions used to be extracted of the Bill were discussed and debated at least in some through delay, the only way to force concessions now is form. I am bound to say that my experience of that was 707 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 708 House of Commons House of Commons [Mr. Jenkin] Ministers should realise that they are answerable to this House and not to the people who provide them with the not entirely satisfactory. Often, a new amendment would line to take. be moved. The former Father of the House, that great I support the amendment tabled by the hon. Member opponent of devolution on the Labour Benches, Tam for Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay). It is quite a simple Dalyell, would start a debate on a new group on an matter to bring Members of the other place to the Bar aspect that none of us had thought of and the motion of this House, or, indeed, to the Dispatch Box, to would be closed off instantaneously. account for themselves. The advantage of allowing more The purpose of a business Committee is to manage Ministers to sit in the other place—of allowing more the business on behalf of the House and that includes GOATs, or more representatives of the Government of managing the Government business. That was an important all the talents—is that we may finish up with fewer concession to extract from the Government. Its purpose Members of this House on the Government payroll. I is not to prevent the Government from obtaining their reminded the House a short while ago that before the business, least of all their manifesto commitments, but second world war there were perhaps as few as 50 Members to ensure that the House as a whole, including Back of this House on the payroll. Today, there are more Benchers and the minority parties, have their say on than 140. If we want this House to be more independent, Government proposals. Its purpose is also, if necessary, perhaps we should look at how many Members of it are to provide the extra time by lifting the 10 o’clock rule on the Government payroll. and proposing changes to the business of the House— Just as with the Kelly inquiry, we should generally be minded to accept whatever proposals arise from the Mr. Hayes: Will my hon. Friend give way? Cannock commission—if I may call it that. I realise that that puts a heavy responsibility on that Select Mr. Jenkin: I must press on, unless my hon. Friend Committee, but I believe the Government should appoint thinks that it is an urgent matter. this Committee in good faith and we should do our best For that reason, the business Committee must be to make sure its proposals are implemented—and there composed of Back Benchers. There is a great temptation should certainly be no whipping of either Back Benchers for the Government to insist that the Committee should or Front Benchers on votes on those proposals. deal only with non-Government business, that it will only deal with Government business because non- 11.2 pm Government business impacts on Government business and that there must be a Whips majority from Mr. Graham Allen (Nottingham, North) (Lab): There the Government on the Committee to ensure that the have been a number of occasions in the past few weeks Government’s business is obtained. That misses the when some of us have actually seen a glimmer of what it point and misunderstands the spirit in which the hon. might be like to be in a proper House of Commons. Member for Cannock Chase and his Committee will There were the debates on the Parliamentary Standards want to set up the Committee. It should not have a Authority. Anyone who sat through, or has read the Government majority.It should be like a Select Committee. record of, those debates would know that there were Perhaps it should be like the Committee chaired by my high-quality contributions from throughout the House right hon. Friend the Member for North-West Hampshire that will stand the test of time. There have also been (Sir George Young),the Select Committee on Standards debates on the matter we are discussing now: the creation and Privileges, which does not have a Government of a Select Committee to look at the reform of Parliament. majority, to ensure that it does not become another We have had some unusual procedural niceties and means by which the Government control the business. some strange, quirky, individual additions to the democratic The Committee needs to discuss a lot of other matters. process, but there has also been an honest and open Why is it that only the Government can propose a debate between colleagues—parliamentarians first, rather business motion? Surely if we are going to control the than members of the Government or the alternative business, either the business Committee or any Back Government. The quality has been there for people to Bencher should be able to put down a business motion. see: it has been a glimpse of what the House could be. If there is sufficient support, it should be called for The election a few weeks ago of the new Speaker was debate. As my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield another such occasion. Regardless of which horse we (Sir Nicholas Winterton) said, why should the Government had our money on, there was a sense of the House have a monopoly on proposing changes to the Standing taking a decision, and of individuals not being whipped Orders? If the business Committee is going to obtain or being pushed in a particular direction. There was a control of the business of the House, it should surely be sense of excitement about that decision being made. able to make proposals on Standing Orders. Indeed any That should be our prerogative every single working Back Bencher should be able to put down a motion to day in this Parliament if, indeed, we are to be a Parliament change the Standing Orders. worthy of the name—and, boy, we need to become that There are some positive proposals on Select Committees. institution. Anybody could provide a shopping list of things that Reform is needed now more than ever. I see in the need to be done. I think the Select Committees need to Chamber many of the old lags who have pursued the consider taking more business under oath. If we want reform agenda along with me, but we are now joined by our Select Committees to be respected, why do we treat Prime Ministers and leaders of political parties, and our witnesses so casually? Why do we not ask them to the only reason why members or putative members of swear in before they give evidence so that they respect the Executive are queuing up to talk the talk about Parliament and there is respect for what is said? In parliamentary reform is that Parliament itself has been particular, those who serve in Government but are not exposed for what it really is in recent weeks. That is a 709 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 710 House of Commons House of Commons result of the revelations about allowances and such like. for Nottingham, North (Mr. Allen) is gallantly preparing In themselves, they have not destroyed Parliament’s some great covering fire for her, but she knows that it is reputation, but they have uncovered in the British people not true. a contempt for Parliament because we are not relevant. What we are doing tonight by, I hope, allowing the hon. Mr. Allen: My objective is not to defeat a Government Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) to chair this of any political persuasion; it is to allow Parliament to Committee is allowing Parliament to take the first few exercise its rightful duties. That is why I want the faltering steps towards becoming relevant once again. Committee to be established, as we hope it will be at the If we become relevant, people outside will forgive end of the evening. The two main foundations that need many things—they will not forgive everything—about to be put in place can be regarded as boring or technical, this House. They will understand that we have a job to but they are fundamental—Governments know that, do and that we are not just here to claim the cash. They which is why they will fight hard unless it is put over in a will say, “They are holding the Government to account very sensible and sophisticated way that change needs and scrutinising law effectively, as they are meant to to take place. do.” Throughout my 20-odd years in the House, try as I The first foundation is the election of Select Committees. might I, like other colleagues in the House, have never As I have mentioned, colleagues in this House have, been able satisfactorily to carry out those functions in without civilisation as we know it or the Government the House of Commons. It is about time that we did so. falling, managed to elect their own colleagues to a What we must do to establish those capabilities in the Select Committee. One tiny link in a very strong chain public mind is get the mechanics of how this House may just be breaking as a result of that precedent. In works right. We need to do two key things in that addition, very recently we have all been allowed to elect regard, both of which are addressed in the Government’s our own Speaker in this House, which again established motion. I congratulate them on tabling it, even though a precedent. Why on earth can we not be treated as they did not do so because they wanted debate. They mature individuals who can elect our own Select did not put the motion forward for debate, but they Committees and who have the sense, as individual Members wanted the work to start, and they deserve credit for of the House, to make a decision about whom we having put it that way. The only people who have held regard with respect and who we feel could do a good job up the work starting are those who have found procedural for us without the Government and the alternative niceties to get in the way. I am sorry, but that is the truth Government making our minds up for us? It is up to us of the matter. to seize that opportunity and to exercise that right. Unless we do that, we will continue to play the game in Let us not forget that people were elected to be which the Government dictate every movement in this members of the Select Committee, not Whips’ narks, House, instead of individual Members of Parliament. safe pairs of hands or people who have been lobotomised. They were elected by their own colleagues—that was certainly the case in the parliamentary Labour party Mr. Chope: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has and in the Conservative parliamentary party—and had the opportunity to participate in this debate. Does he their names put forward on behalf of their colleagues. have any insight into whether the Government will Those who have wished to slow the process down are accept the result of the Committee’s work when it not so much acting on principle as flying in the face of reports? Surely that is the fundamental issue. their colleagues, who elected colleagues for the first time to a Select Committee. I say for the first time, because it Mr. Allen: I would have thought that the Government is an important principle that colleagues can be elected will accept the recommendations of the Committee to a Select Committee. only if, first, its work is focused on its terms of reference and, secondly, it accepts that one of the fundamental tenets of this place is that the Government need to get Mr. Harper rose— their business. We need to consider the balance between Government business and non-governmental business. Mr. Allen: I shall return to that point once I have If we are silly enough to fail to make proper provision taken the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. for Government of any colour to get their business, the Government will always command a majority and will Mr. Harper: I cannot let that point pass. The work blow out the recommendations of the Committee. Our that my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch responsibility is to reform the House—and, in so doing, (Mr. Chope) did in objecting has achieved significant to push the envelope as far as is humanly possible—but changes to this motion. The original motion talked only also to accept the practical and political realities of this of non-Government business and did not allow the place. Without a written constitution, if we challenge Committee the power to look at the election of the the Executive, they have the majority to overturn any Deputy Chairmen of Ways and Means. The Government recommendations, whether in November or December. accepted that only— Mr. Jenkin: On the question of the election of Select Barbara Keeley indicated dissent. Committees, does the hon. Gentleman think that paid members of the Executive should be able to vote in Mr. Harper: We all know this, so I do not know why those elections? the Minister is insisting otherwise. If all the Labour MPs who signed my hon. Friend’s amendment had Mr. Allen: I do not, but I am willing to listen to voted for it, they would have defeated the Government. arguments from the Government and other colleagues That is the only reason why they accepted it—the on the Committee about whether that is a practical way Minister knows that and we know that. The hon. Member forward. There are problems at the moment in getting 711 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 712 House of Commons House of Commons [Mr. Allen] Mr. Stuart: As the hon. Gentleman is to serve on the Committee, I encourage him to be as bold as possible. sufficient people to serve on Select Committees. It may Does he believe that if a business Committee of the be that one of the answers is to have smaller Select House had an entrenched Opposition majority, the Committees, but I hope that the Committee will have a Government would still be comfortable that they could chance to look at that point. get their business through?

Mr. Hayes: The nub of the issue is how the Government Mr. Allen rose— exercise their power. The hon. Gentleman is right that the Government have not only a right, but a responsibility Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Order. I to get their business, but the exercise of power can be am sorry to delay the hon. Gentleman, but I have a restrained by the prevailing political culture. Historically, sense that the House is getting ahead of itself and is that was a culture based on a modest, measured and debating matters that may, or may not, emerge from the moderate exercise of government, and respect for both Committee, if the Committee is set up by a decision of sides of the House—and the Opposition in particular. the House tonight. The only issue before the House That is the difference—the change in political culture. tonight is whether to set up the Committee, not to start Mr. Allen: What was accepted 100 years ago by anticipating what the Committee may say. That debate gentlemen’s agreement now needs to be enforced and will come in due time, so I counsel the House that we put into writing so that we all know the rules. Clearly cannot go on having a debate about what may happen. the Government must get their business, and that is The question that we have to decide tonight is whether their right, but Parliament must have its scrutiny and or not the Committee is set up. accountability, and that is its duty. We need to ensure a balance between the two. Both should be strong, capable Mr. Allen: Indeed, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We all have a partners producing better law and better accountability, shopping list of personal parliamentary reform as well as better value for money for the electorate. favourites—I have at least 10 on the Order Paper most Working together as partners is something that the days, as do a large number of colleagues. There is a need Government need to do, and a refreshed and re-energised for discipline, given that we need to report in November Parliament would also need to play its part. Even in the on a strict timetable. That is why focusing on the election best of times, it cannot be a partner if it says, “This is by secret ballot of Select Committees is very important. our view and we’re going to have our way, come what So too—finally—is the creation of a business Committee, may.” The Government have done that for far too long which is something I and a number of colleagues will and Parliament would be foolish to do that itself. press in the Select Committee. It is nonsense that the House cannot influence its Barbara Keeley: May I clarify two points that have own agenda—that every day the Order Paper is full of emerged again during my hon. Friend’s contribution? stuff from the Government that the House is meant to Two different motions were proposed and the change to scrutinise and hold to account. That is an affront. It accept the amendment on scheduling business rather renders Parliament powerless, which is why when we than just non-Government business was made first. The have a problem—as we have in the past couple of objection that held up the establishment of the Committee months—we are seen as pathetic in the face of what the was not made at that stage but later, so my hon. Friend Government bring to the party. The Government do is right: the objections that have been made night after not only control our agenda; they can introduce a night have held up the work of establishing the Parliamentary Standards Authority that could even Committee—[HON.MEMBERS: “No.”] Yes, they have. abolish the right to speak freely and openly in the Motions were proposed on two occasions and this is the Chamber. Such unmitigated, unmediated power is the second set of amendments. Secondly, my right hon. and fundamental corruption of this place. It is not financial learned Friend the Leader of the House made the point corruption, but political corruption, where our institution that she will be happy to schedule a debate to consider of freely elected individuals is controlled by Government. the Committee’s report. That balance has to change and it can change only if there is a business Committee that works closely with Mr. Allen: There has certainly been a lot of game the Government but is not in the pocket or the pay of playing, which we are often reduced to in this place. We Government. are in the play pen. Often, we are not exercising proper scrutiny and accountability so we find ways to entertain It is important that we create the Select Committee. It ourselves. However, this is a serious moment when some is important that we allow it to do its business. It is reform could take place. Many of us thought such a important that we have the discipline to focus on some moment would never come, but because of other events of the key issues and that we move as swiftly as possible we are now in a position where some reform can take to a vote, if that is necessary, so that we have a Committee place and I very much hope that the House seizes that that can get on with the job of reforming the House of opportunity. In doing so, we must look at a second Commons. group of issues in the terms of reference relating to the business Committee. I shall say a few words about that 11.19 pm and then sit down. Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) (Con): I am Mr. Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con) pleased to follow the hon. Member for Nottingham, rose— North (Mr. Allen), although I do not take precisely the same position on the way in which the Government Mr. Allen: But first I give way to the hon. Gentleman. have operated in introducing the motion. 713 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 714 House of Commons House of Commons Can I please get from the Deputy Leader of the This has been said by a number of speakers already, House a specific answer as to the question—initially but this House now has a unique opportunity to restore asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for North-West some integrity and independence to the Back Benches Hampshire (Sir George Young)—why the Government and to the Floor of the House, so that Members can did not consider referring this matter to the Procedure again carry the confidence of their constituents. Committee and/or the Modernisation Committee? Both Let me express another concern. I was delighted with are respected Committees of this House and would the speech that the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, have been able to do the job that we are talking about Central (Mark Fisher) made. He leads the Parliament very adequately. I take my right hon. Friend’s advice First group with great intellectual rigour and distinction, that the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright) and he has done a great service to the House. I should, could have been appointed as the Chairman of the however, express my sorrow, and that of other Opposition Modernisation Committee. As the longest-serving Members, that he was not nominated as a member of Conservative member of the Committee I have to say the Committee, because he could bring great wisdom to that I would have been honoured and privileged to serve it. I suppose that I should declare an interest, in that under the hon. Gentleman’s chairmanship. I hope that I I am sorry that I was not included either, but perhaps I speak with some authority on this matter, having chaired am in some ways a little too controversial. However, I the Procedure Committee for two Parliaments, as well have, with a combination of my heart and my head, the as having been on the Modernisation Committee since interests of this Chamber very much at the core of what it was set up early in the Blair Government, in 1997. I want done in the House before I leave in 10 or Barbara Keeley: The answer to the hon. Gentleman’s 11 months’ time. If, with the other Back Benchers of the questions lies in what he is saying: those Committees House, I can help to restore the integrity that the House will continue. This is a time-limited Committee to look needs to do its job properly, in order to deal with at a specific set of reforms that we hope can bear fruit in matters such as programming, which my hon. Friend the next Session, which is a very different thing. the Member for North Essex (Mr. Jenkin) raised, we will have done a service. Sir Nicholas Winterton: We hope that that is the case. The amendment in the name of the hon. Member for However, one can always be a little suspicious—I mean Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay) is certainly worth serious no disrespect to the hon. Member for Cannock Chase— consideration. I would not go quite as far as my hon. when a Committee is established by the Government Friend in saying that I would support the hon. Gentleman and the Chairman is automatically put forward by the if he pushed it to a vote, but it would do a great deal for Government. I hope that I am not in any way breaching the reputation of this House if important Ministers the guidance that you gave the Chamber a few minutes who lead critical Departments but who sit in the House ago, Mr. Deputy Speaker. of Lords were brought here to deal with important statements at the Dispatch Box in this Chamber. I do Mr. Bone: Are not the Government to be congratulated not believe that that would be an over-revolutionary on getting so many people here and making no attempt idea. It deserves serious consideration, and I hope that to restrict the time for the debate, so that all Members the hon. Member for Cannock Chase will give it that will get a chance to speak? consideration, whether or not the hon. Member for Sir Nicholas Winterton: The Deputy Speaker has Thurrock presses his amendment to a vote. given some guidance, and I shall certainly endeavour to Let us take this opportunity to do good to the House keep to that, although I believe that the criteria for the of Commons. It has gone through a difficult period. Committee—its mission as spelt out on the Order Paper— Many people feel very unhappy about the way in which should be subject to some comment in this debate. the House and individual Members have been treated. I am very pleased that the Liberal Democrat spokesman, Let us restore to the House the authority that will the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) enable it to stand up, not only for its own interests, but took on board my intervention, in which I said that the against the too often overweening power of the Executive. House could take control of its business only if the House itself, or a Committee of the House, ideally The Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury under a Back-Bench Chairman, could draw up and (Mr. Nicholas Brown) claimed to move the closure (Standing table Standing Orders that governed how the House Order No. 36). proceeds and how legislation is dealt with. Without Question put forthwith, That the Question be now that, all the wonderful euphemistic statements about put. what we hope to achieve cannot have results. The House divided: Ayes 218, Noes 41. I say to the hon. Member for Cannock Chase that I hope that he will be a very aggressive Chairman. I hope Division No. 204] [11.28 pm that he will be—I say this with some difficulty—a radical Chairman, or could I say a traditional progressive AYES Chairman, so that the right decisions will be taken. Abbott, Ms Diane Battle, rh John Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Bayley, Hugh That leads me to my second question to the Deputy Allen, Mr. Graham Beckett, rh Margaret Leader of the House. I think that she may have gone Anderson, Janet Begg, Miss Anne some way to allaying my concern, which is that all the Atkins, Charlotte Benn, rh Hilary recommendations of the Committee, when it reports to Austin, John Benton, Mr. Joe the House on or after 13 November, should be put to Bailey, Mr. Adrian Berry, Roger the House to be decided on a genuinely free vote. I say Baird, Vera Betts, Mr. Clive that with the Patronage Secretary looking at me with a Banks, Gordon Blackman, Liz friendly smile. Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta 715 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 716 House of Commons House of Commons Borrow, Mr. David S. Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon Pound, Stephen Stuart, Ms Gisela Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Hood, Mr. Jim Prentice, Bridget Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Brennan, Kevin Howarth, David Prentice, Mr. Gordon Tami, Mark Brown, Lyn Howarth, rh Mr. George Primarolo, rh Dawn Taylor, David Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay Prosser, Gwyn Taylor, Dr. Richard Brown, Mr. Russell Humble, Mrs. Joan Rammell, Bill Thomas, Mr. Gareth Browne, rh Des Iddon, Dr. Brian Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Timms, rh Mr. Stephen Bryant, Chris Illsley, Mr. Eric Reed, Mr. Andy Todd, Mr. Mark Buck, Ms Karen Ingram, rh Mr. Adam Reed, Mr. Jamie Trickett, Jon Burden, Richard Irranca-Davies, Huw Reid, rh John Turner, Dr. Desmond Burgon, Colin James, Mrs. Siân C. Robertson, John Turner, Mr. Neil Butler, Ms Dawn Jenkins, Mr. Brian Roy, Mr. Frank Twigg, Derek Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Johnson, rh Alan Roy, Lindsay Ussher, Kitty Cairns, David Johnson, Ms Diana R. Ruane, Chris Vis, Dr. Rudi Campbell, Mr. Alan Jones, Helen Ruddock, Joan Walley, Joan Caton, Mr. Martin Jones, Mr. Kevan Seabeck, Alison Waltho, Lynda Cawsey, Mr. Ian Jones, Lynne Sharma, Mr. Virendra Watts, Mr. Dave Challen, Colin Jones, Mr. Martyn Shaw, Jonathan Whitehead, Dr. Alan Chapman, Ben Jowell, rh Tessa Sheridan, Jim Wicks, rh Malcolm Clapham, Mr. Michael Joyce, Mr. Eric Simon, Mr. Siôn Wills, rh Mr. Michael Clark, Paul Keeble, Ms Sally Simpson, Alan Winnick, Mr. David Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Keeley, Barbara Skinner, Mr. Dennis Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Clarke,rhMr.Tom Keen, Alan Slaughter, Mr. Andy Wright, Mr. Anthony Clwyd, rh Ann Keen, Ann Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Wright, David Cooper, Rosie Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Smith, Geraldine Wright, Mr. Iain Cousins, Jim Kidney, Mr. David Smith, rh Jacqui Wright, Dr. Tony Crausby, Mr. David Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Snelgrove, Anne Cunningham, Mr. Jim Knight, rh Jim Spellar, rh Mr. John Tellers for the Ayes: Cunningham, Tony Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Stewart, Ian Mr. John Heppell and David, Mr. Wayne Lammy, rh Mr. David Straw, rh Mr. Jack Mary Creagh Davies, Mr. Quentin Laxton, Mr. Bob Dean, Mrs. Janet Lepper, David NOES Denham, rh Mr. John Lloyd, Tony Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit Love, Mr. Andrew Barrett, John Knight, rh Mr. Greg Dismore, Mr. Andrew Lucas, Ian Beith, rh Sir Alan Leech, Mr. John Dobbin, Jim McCabe, Steve Breed, Mr. Colin Lidington, Mr. David Dobson, rh Frank McFadden, rh Mr. Pat Davies, Mr. Dai Mackinlay, Andrew Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. McCafferty, Chris Davies, Philip Price, Adam Doran, Mr. Frank McCarthy, Kerry Duddridge, James Robathan, Mr. Andrew Drew, Mr. David McCarthy-Fry, Sarah Dunne, Mr. Philip Russell, Bob Durkan, Mark McKechin, Ann Foster, Mr. Don Sanders, Mr. Adrian Fraser, Christopher Eagle, Angela McDonnell, John Stuart, Mr. Graham Gidley, Sandra Eagle, Maria McGovern, Mr. Jim Stunell, Andrew Goodwill, Mr. Robert Efford, Clive McIsaac, Shona Thurso, John Ellman, Mrs. Louise McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Hancock, Mr. Mike Turner, Mr. Andrew Fisher, Mark McNulty, rh Mr. Tony Harper, Mr. Mark Vara, Mr. Shailesh Fitzpatrick, Jim McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Harris, Dr. Evan Flello, Mr. Robert Malik, Mr. Shahid Harvey, Nick Watkinson, Angela Flint, rh Caroline Mallaber, Judy Hayes, Mr. John Williams, Stephen Flynn, Paul Mann, John Heath, Mr. David Winterton, Sir Nicholas Foster, Mr. Michael Marris, Rob Hollobone, Mr. Philip Young, rh Sir George (Worcester) Merron, Gillian Holmes, Paul Younger-Ross, Richard Foster, Michael Jabez Michael, rh Alun Hughes, Simon (Hastings and Rye) Miliband, rh Edward Huhne, Chris Tellers for the Noes: Gapes, Mike Miller, Andrew Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Mr. Christopher Chope and George, rh Mr. Bruce Moffatt, Laura Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Mr. Peter Bone Gerrard, Mr. Neil Mole, Chris Gilroy, Linda Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Question accordingly agreed to. Goodman, Helen Morden, Jessica Griffith, Nia Morgan, Julie Mr. Harper: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Grogan, Mr. John Mudie, Mr. George Given that the title of the motion is “Select Committee Hain, rh Mr. Peter Munn, Meg Hall, Mr. Mike Murphy, rh Mr. Jim on Reform of the House of Commons”, how can the Hamilton, Mr. David Naysmith, Dr. Doug fact that the Government allowed only an hour and a Hanson, rh Mr. David Norris, Dan half for debate and the Chairman of the Committee Harman, rh Ms Harriet O’Brien, rh Mr. Mike voted in favour of the closure give Back Benchers any Harris, Mr. Tom Osborne, Sandra confidence? Is that not an abuse of the House, and does Healey, rh John Owen, Albert not it negate what we have just voted on? Hendrick, Mr. Mark Palmer, Dr. Nick Hepburn, Mr. Stephen Pearson, Ian Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): Further to that point Heyes, David Plaskitt, Mr. James of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. In your opinion, is it not Hill, rh Keith Pope, Mr. Greg wrong that the person who was responsible for the 717 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 Select Committee on Reform of the 718 House of Commons House of Commons debate in the first place—my hon. Friend the Member Cooper, Rosie Laxton, Mr. Bob for Christchurch (Mr. Chope)—was unable to make a Cousins, Jim Lepper, David speech, when people who had been against such a Crausby, Mr. David Lloyd, Tony debate— Cunningham, Mr. Jim Love, Mr. Andrew Cunningham, Tony Lucas, Ian Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Member must David, Mr. Wayne McCabe, Steve Davies, Mr. Quentin McFadden, rh Mr. Pat not question the decisions of the Chair about who is Dean, Mrs. Janet McCarthy, Kerry called to speak in the debate. Responsibility for terminating Denham, rh Mr. John McCarthy-Fry, Sarah the debate lay with the Chair on accepting the closure Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit McKechin, Ann motion. The Chair does not have to explain decisions, Dismore, Mr. Andrew McGovern, Mr. Jim but some might think that it was fairly obvious why it Dobbin, Jim McIsaac, Shona was reasonable to conclude the debate at that point. Dobson, rh Frank McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne Question put accordingly, That the amendment be Donohoe, Mr. Brian H. McNulty, rh Mr. Tony made. Doran, Mr. Frank McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas Durkan, Mark Malik, Mr. Shahid The House divided: Ayes 52, Noes 202. Eagle, Angela Mallaber, Judy Division No. 205] [11.42 pm Eagle, Maria Mann, John Efford, Clive Marris, Rob Ellman, Mrs. Louise Merron, Gillian AYES Fitzpatrick, Jim Michael, rh Alun Abbott, Ms Diane Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles Flello, Mr. Robert Miliband, rh Edward Barrett, John Knight, rh Mr. Greg Flint, rh Caroline Miller, Andrew Beith, rh Sir Alan Leech, Mr. John Foster, Mr. Michael Moffatt, Laura Breed, Mr. Colin Lidington, Mr. David (Worcester) Mole, Chris Chope, Mr. Christopher McCafferty, Chris Foster, Michael Jabez Moon, Mrs. Madeleine Davies, Mr. Dai McDonnell, John (Hastings and Rye) Morden, Jessica Davies, Philip Mackinlay, Andrew Gapes, Mike Morgan, Julie Drew, Mr. David Munn, Meg George, rh Mr. Bruce Mudie, Mr. George Duddridge, James Prentice, Mr. Gordon Gilroy, Linda Murphy, rh Mr. Jim Dunne, Mr. Philip Price, Adam Goodman, Helen Norris, Dan Fisher, Mark Robathan, Mr. Andrew Griffith, Nia O’Brien, rh Mr. Mike Foster, Mr. Don Russell, Bob Grogan, Mr. John Osborne, Sandra Fraser, Christopher Sanders, Mr. Adrian Hain, rh Mr. Peter Owen, Albert Gidley, Sandra Stuart, Mr. Graham Hall, Mr. Mike Palmer, Dr. Nick Goodwill, Mr. Robert Stunell, Andrew Hamilton, Mr. David Pearson, Ian Hancock, Mr. Mike Taylor, David Hanson, rh Mr. David Plaskitt, Mr. James Harper, Mr. Mark Taylor, Dr. Richard Harman, rh Ms Harriet Pope, Mr. Greg Harris, Dr. Evan Thurso, John Harris, Mr. Tom Prentice, Bridget Harvey, Nick Turner, Mr. Andrew Healey, rh John Primarolo, rh Dawn Hayes, Mr. John Watkinson, Angela Hendrick, Mr. Mark Prosser, Gwyn Heath, Mr. David Williams, Stephen Hepburn, Mr. Stephen Rammell, Bill Hollobone, Mr. Philip Winterton, Sir Nicholas Heyes, David Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick Holmes, Paul Young, rh Sir George Hill, rh Keith Reed, Mr. Jamie Howarth, David Younger-Ross, Richard Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon Reid, rh John Hughes, Simon Hood, Mr. Jim Robertson, John Huhne, Chris Tellers for the Ayes: Howarth, rh Mr. George Rooney, Mr. Terry Jenkin, Mr. Bernard Mr. Peter Bone and Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay Roy, Mr. Frank Jones, Lynne Paul Flynn Humble, Mrs. Joan Roy, Lindsay Iddon, Dr. Brian Ruane, Chris NOES Illsley, Mr. Eric Ruddock, Joan Ingram, rh Mr. Adam Seabeck, Alison Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas Brennan, Kevin Irranca-Davies, Huw Sharma, Mr. Virendra Allen, Mr. Graham Brown, Lyn James, Mrs. Siân C. Shaw, Jonathan Anderson, Janet Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas Jenkins, Mr. Brian Sheridan, Jim Atkins, Charlotte Brown, Mr. Russell Johnson, rh Alan Simon, Mr. Siôn Austin, John Browne, rh Des Johnson, Ms Diana R. Simpson, Alan Bailey, Mr. Adrian Bryant, Chris Jones, Helen Skinner, Mr. Dennis Baird, Vera Buck, Ms Karen Jones, Mr. Kevan Slaughter, Mr. Andy Banks, Gordon Burden, Richard Jones, Mr. Martyn Smith, rh Mr. Andrew Barron, rh Mr. Kevin Burgon, Colin Jowell, rh Tessa Smith, Geraldine Battle, rh John Butler, Ms Dawn Joyce, Mr. Eric Smith, rh Jacqui Bayley, Hugh Byrne, rh Mr. Liam Keeble, Ms Sally Snelgrove, Anne Beckett, rh Margaret Cairns, David Begg, Miss Anne Campbell, Mr. Alan Keeley, Barbara Soulsby, Sir Peter Benn, rh Hilary Caton, Mr. Martin Keen, Alan Spellar, rh Mr. John Benton, Mr. Joe Cawsey, Mr. Ian Keen, Ann Stewart, Ian Berry, Roger Challen, Colin Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq Straw, rh Mr. Jack Betts, Mr. Clive Chapman, Ben Kidney, Mr. David Stuart, Ms Gisela Blackman, Liz Clapham, Mr. Michael Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta Clark, Paul Knight, rh Jim Tami, Mark Borrow, Mr. David S. Clarke, rh Mr. Charles Ladyman, Dr. Stephen Thomas, Mr. Gareth Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben Clarke,rhMr.Tom Lammy, rh Mr. David Timms, rh Mr. Stephen 719 Select Committee on Reform of the 20 JULY 2009 720 House of Commons Todd, Mr. Mark Wills, rh Mr. Michael REGIONAL SELECT COMMITTEE (YORKSHIRE Trickett, Jon Winnick, Mr. David AND THE HUMBER) Turner, Dr. Desmond Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Motion made, Turner, Mr. Neil Woolas, Mr. Phil Twigg, Derek Wright, Mr. Anthony That Mary Creagh be discharged from the Yorkshire and the Humber Regional Select Committee and Mr. Austin Mitchell be Ussher, Kitty Wright, David added. —(Mr. McAvoy.) Walley, Joan Wright, Mr. Iain Waltho, Lynda Watts, Mr. Dave Tellers for the Noes: Hon. Members: Object. Whitehead, Dr. Alan Mr. John Heppell and Wicks, rh Malcolm Mary Creagh REGIONAL SELECT COMMITTEE (SOUTH WEST) Question accordingly negatived. Motion made, Main Question put and agreed to. That Linda Gilroy be discharged from the South West Regional Resolved, Select Committee and Roger Berry be added. —(Mr. McAvoy.) (1) That a Select Committee be appointed to consider and make recommendations on the following matters: Hon. Members: Object. (a) the appointment of members and chairmen of select committees, (b) the appointment of the Chairman and Deputy Chairmen HUMAN RIGHTS (JOINT COMMITTEE) of Ways and Means; Motion made, (c) scheduling business in the House; That Mr. John Austin be discharged from the Joint Committee (d) enabling the public to initiate debates and proceedings in on Human Rights and Fiona Mactaggart be added. —(Mr. McAvoy, the House; and on behalf of the Committee of Selection.) (e) such other matters as appear to the Committee to be closely connected with the matters set out above, and to report on these Hon. Members: Object. matters by 13 November 2009; (2) That the Committee also consider such other matters as may be referred to it from time to time; PETITIONS (3) That the Committee consist of eighteen Members; Travel Passes (Lancashire) (4) That Mr Graham Allen, Mr Clive Betts, Mr Graham Brady, Mr David Clelland, Mr David Drew, Natascha Engel, Dr Evan Harris, David Howarth, Mr Michael Jack, Mr Greg 11.55 pm Knight, Mr Elfyn Llwyd, Mr Chris Mullin, Dr Nick Palmer, Martin Salter, Dr Phyllis Starkey, Mr Andrew Tyrie, Dr Tony Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab): Despite West Wright and Sir George Young be members of the Committee; Lancashire borough council being a net gainer in the (5) That Dr Tony Wright be Chairman of the Committee; Government’s concessionary transport scheme, older people and the disabled in my constituency are forced to (6) That the Committee have power to send for persons, papers choose between free bus travel and a discounted rail and records, to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House; to adjourn from place to place, to report from time to card, while their neighbours in Liverpool and Manchester time and to appoint specialist advisers; have free bus and rail travel. To that end, I bring a petition to the House of Commons from the residents (7) That this Order be a Standing Order of the House until the of West Lancashire and others. It states: end of the present Parliament. The Petition of residents of West Lancashire, and others, Declares that the current arrangements of West Lancashire Business without Debate District Council force disabled people and those over sixty years of age to choose between a national off-peak bus pass and a discounted rail card; further declares that asking people to make a choice between these two items is not acceptable; and believes SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE that local passholders should get a better deal, like their neighbours Motion made, in Wigan and Southport. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons That, at the sitting on Tuesday 21 July, the Speaker shall not urge the Secretary of State for Transport to do all in his power to adjourn the House until any message from the Lords has been ensure that West Lancashire District Council changes its arrangements received, any Committee to draw up Reasons which has been so that disabled people and those of sixty years of age are entitled appointed at that sitting has reported, and he has notified the to both a national off-peak bus pass and a discounted national Royal Assent to Acts agreed upon by both Houses.—(Mr. McAvoy.) rail card. And the Petitioners remain, etc. Hon. Members: Object. [P000399] Public Transport (Lancashire) REGIONAL SELECT COMMITTEE (WEST MIDLANDS) 11.57 pm Motion made, Janet Anderson (Rossendale and Darwen) (Lab): That Dr. Richard Taylor be a member of the West Midlands Rossendale Transport is the local authority-owned bus Regional Select Committee. —(Mr. McAvoy.) company that serves the Rossendale valley in my constituency and many of the surrounding areas. The Hon. Members: Object. local authority, Rossendale borough council, is now 721 Business without Debate 20 JULY 2009 722 considering whether to sell off the company. This has Swine Flu met widespread opposition in the local area, and particularly Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House in my constituency, from all those who rely on the do now adjourn.—(Mrs. Hodgson.) services of Rossendale Transport. I am therefore pleased to have this opportunity to present the petition of the customers of Rossendale Transport in my constituency. 11.59 pm It states: Christopher Fraser (South-West Norfolk) (Con): I am The Petition of the customers of Rossendale Transport, pleased to have secured this debate on what is an Declares that the announcement by Rossendale Borough Council, extremely pressing issue—even at this late hour. I have that they plan “to test the market to ascertain the interest in been trying to secure a debate for some weeks in order Rossendale Transport Ltd” with a view to a possible sale of the to raise concerns about our preparedness for swine flu. I company, is against the wishes of the thousands of people who had hoped to secure a more general debate so that have signed this Petition; notes that Rossendale Transport is one colleagues could also contribute. I believe that the of the few local authority-owned bus companies which makes a Government should have arranged for a debate in their profit; believes that if such a sale were to proceed, it could own time, as these are very important issues, so is pity seriously jeopardise public transport services in the Rossendale Valley which are essential to those without access to a car, that they were unable to do so. particularly the young and the elderly; and further declares that Despite today’s statement, there are still some issues up to 200 jobs could be put at risk. that I would like to put to the Minister, reflecting The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons comments made to me since the Secretary of State’s urge the Government to take any necessary action to prevent update. We are experiencing the first global flu pandemic Rossendale Borough Council from selling off Rossendale Transport. for 40 years. I commend front-line NHS staff and And the Petitioners remain, etc. others in the health care sector. The UK death toll [P000398] currently stands at 29, but the number is increasing. Each death has been a tragedy for friends and family, so I am sure that the Minister will join me in sending condolences to them all at what is an extremely difficult time. I did not call this debate to whip up public anxiety or panic. All I want to do is try to get reassurance on a number of key issues, not least because of the extra pressures and costs placed on the NHS and the predicted drop in economic output as factories, offices and businesses cope with a reduced work force. The public, I believe, have a right to be as well informed as possible and I fear that conflicting advice and information from various sources have become a big problem. The Secretary of State clarified advice for expectant mothers this afternoon, which was welcome. However, confusion still remains in other areas. To what extent are the Government liaising with the medical profession, charities and the media to ensure a consistent message? Despite the fact that the UK initially adopted a containment strategy, it has the fifth highest number of cases of swine flu in the world. Does the Minister accept that this is because our containment strategy was not as effective as it could have been? Many of those who should have been given antiviral drugs—because they were infected or had come into close contact with someone who was infected—did not receive this treatment. At the start of July, the number of confirmed cases of swine flu exceeded the number of doses of antivirals administered by more than 1,000. Does the Minister agree that if a proper containment strategy had been in place, the number of people receiving antivirals would have been far higher? Why were those with “suspected” swine flu not targeted alongside those “confirmed” with the illness? The Government also indicated that they would contain the virus by giving antiviral drugs to those who had been in contact with a swine flu victim. Yet figures from the start of this month show that antivirals had been given out to fewer than two confirmed contacts of each victim. Can the Minister explain how this demonstrates a rigorous containment strategy? The Minister might argue that this strategy could have been pursued only for a limited period of time, and it is now necessary to move towards a strategy of 723 Swine Flu20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu 724

[Christopher Fraser] of clarity about how long a patient should be advised to remain at home after contracting the virus. Does the “treatment”, as the Government have done, but the Minister agree that it is vital that the Government and World Health Organisation in a briefing note published the health care sector share a common approach? only seven days ago states that all countries should, as On the vaccination programme, the Secretary of State part of their pandemic vaccination strategy, suggested today that we could begin receiving supplies “reduce transmission of the pandemic virus within communities.” from August, yet the WHO has said that a fully licensed Does the Minister believe the Government are heeding vaccine might not be available until the end of the year. that advice? Will the Minister confirm that the first doses of vaccine will have been fully tested? It is vital that we start a I want to move on to discuss the concept of a debate about what criteria will be applied for prioritising national pandemic flu line. The Secretary of State said certain vulnerable groups for early vaccination. That today that a flu line has become necessary only very debate needs to start now, in a sensitive and considered recently. In their “A national framework for responding manner, well before vaccination is made available, so to an influenza pandemic”, the Govt said a flu line that the public are clear about who will receive initial should be ready when the World Health Organisation doses. How will decisions on priority groups be reached? raised its alert to level 5: Who will be consulted, and does the Minister accept “During Phase 5, response plans must be ready for instant that time might be running out for such consideration? implementation and activated when required... the national flu line will be established”. I now turn to forward planning. Sadly, experts agree that we have not seen the worst of swine flu. More When the WHO raised its alert to level 5 at the end of people are expected to become infected. The death toll, April, the then Health Secretary stated that a flu line alas, is expected to rise, and we should not underestimate would not be up and running until October. Will the the threat of a more virulent strain developing as the Minister explain why the Government decided to ignore virus possibly mutates. The onset of autumn and winter their own national framework? Does she accept that will bring conditions that are far more conducive to the that has hampered the health care sector’s ability to spread of the virus. Some experts have suggested that distribute antiviral drugs and information efficiently? we should have sent more people to Mexico or the We are now told that a national pandemic flu service United States earlier, to gain vital information about will be established by the end of this week. The service the virulence and impact of swine flu. Does the Minister will include a website and call centres, but will only be accept that point? Will we be sending people to, for an interim service. When will a full service be rolled out example, Australia—which is in the midst of its flu and how will it be different? The Secretary of State season—to gain a better understanding of the way the confirmed today that all Members would be given details virus may affect the United Kingdom during our winter? about antiviral collection points in their constituencies There are other countries with lower death rates than this week. Will the Minister answer the question posed the UK from which we can learn. In the context of the by my hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire global nature of swine flu, I understand that some (Mr. Lansley) about whether maximum distances to airlines have called for GPs to “certify” people swine collection points will be agreed? That is hugely important flu-free before they fly. The British Medical Association in rural constituencies such as South-West Norfolk, and is anxious for GPs not to have to bear any further other constituencies across the country where vast distances burden, and to be able to spend time treating people must be travelled to attend hospital or a clinic, or even rather than form filling. Can the Minister confirm that to visit a doctor. Will the Minister reassure me that the the latter will not become a requirement for them? distribution strategy will not put unnecessary pressure on hard-pressed pharmaceutical wholesalers? The chief medical officer for England has issued figures relating to a “worst-case scenario”, which suggest I also want to mention criticisms from health care that if 30 per cent. of the population contracted swine professionals. GPs have made it clear that delays to the flu it could lead to some 65,000 deaths. He has stressed flu line have resulted in those with symptoms turning up that those figures relate to a worst- case scenario, but at their local surgery instead of remaining at home, thus even the Health Secretary’s figure of 100,000 new cases going against public health advice. They also say that a day by the end of August are cause for much concern the pressure put on surgeries by the “worried well” throughout the House and our constituencies, and hence results in patients with serious health conditions finding throughout the country. That number of cases could it difficult to get appointments. Does the Minister recognise lead to around 1,500 hospitalisations a day, yet the those extra pressures on local GPs’surgeries and community Society of Critical Care Medicine says that the UK has health centres? the lowest number of critical care beds per 100,000 people A company specialising in respiratory medicines has in western Europe and north America. Although the also highlighted the likelihood of swine flu aggravating matter was raised today by my hon. Friend the Member underlying health conditions, such as asthma. What for South Cambridgeshire, he received no specific answers contingency plans are in place to take account of increased to his queries. What is being done to offset the potential demands for medical devices such as inhalers? What pressures? What criteria are the Government applying extra resources are being made available to NHS staff, to the cancellation of elective operations? Will hospital who might face increased demands from patients suffering trusts be allowed to make their own decisions on the from other existing health conditions? basis of on local conditions? The Royal College of General Practitioners has accused I am aware that biocides have been developed to kill the Government of giving conflicting advice to doctors the swine flu virus through hand gels, sprays, diffusers and patients. GPs say that there has been a lot of and wipes, and that many other countries across the confusion over prescribing Tamiflu, and there is a lack world are using those products in their fight to contain 725 Swine Flu20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu 726 the pandemic. I understand that some can be effective The basic hygiene advice to people is exactly the same for up to a fortnight on treated surfaces, and that a today as it was some months ago, and it is worth hand gel will still be effective after two hours. Organisations reiterating. To help to limit the spread, people should could be required to use biocides. To combat MRSA we sneeze into a tissue. They should dispose of it properly have all been required on occasion to use handwashes and wash their hands. To reduce the chances of catching and wipes when visiting hospitals, and when there is an the virus, people should wash their hands regularly. If outbreak of foot and mouth disease we are required to they have flu-like symptoms, they should stay at home, put our boots and vehicles through anti-bacterial washes. check their symptoms on www.nhs.uk, or through the What consideration has been given to the establishment swine flu information line and then ring their doctor if of a campaign for public awareness of such products, or necessary. to ensuring that they are used in public areas such as Soap and water is good enough, we believe. A leaflet schools and the transport network? In his advice to has gone out to every household and information is expectant mothers this afternoon, the Secretary of State available on the website. In areas where there has been a cited good hand hygiene first. In the light of that, does particular concentration of cases, extra and considerable the Minister accept the points that I have made about efforts have been made in terms of communications. To the wider use of licensed biocides? answer the hon. Gentleman, hand gels are useful where We are in uncertain territory. The Home Secretary it is not possible to get to a place to use soap and water has said that the threat from swine flu could be worse but over and above that we regard that as a matter for than that from terrorism in terms of its impact on individuals and not something that we are promoting. communities. As I emphasised at the start of my speech, I turn to the issue of NHS preparedness. Our health I do not intend to cause undue panic, but the Government service has been preparing for a pandemic for many must be clearer about their plans. Delays to vital measures years, and the World Health Organisation has said that such as the national flu line have only served to reinforce this country’s preparations are among the best in the the view that they may be under-prepared. People’s lives world. I summarise by saying that we prepare for the depend on a robust and carefully thought-out strategy worst and we hope for the best. Our early efforts to to deal with this pandemic, and I hope that the Minister contain swine flu by isolating cases, offering Tamiflu as can give me the assurances that my constituents and the a preventive method and shutting schools where necessary public demand. gave us a precious window of time to learn more about I know the Minister well, and I know that she will the virus, about which little was known, and to fine tune respond to me in good faith. If there are points that I our preparations. have made tonight to which she cannot respond in the We stockpiled antivirals, so that we have enough to limited time available, I ask her—in good faith—to treat half the population, and will be increasing that to respond to them in writing before the House adjourns cover 80 per cent. in due course. We ordered more than for the summer recess tomorrow. If she will do that, I 15 million additional courses of antibiotics to treat shall at least be able to pass her responses to colleagues complications and they will be delivered over the coming so that they can return to their constituencies in the months, as will the 226 million extra face masks and knowledge that the Government have addressed these 34 million extra respirators that we have ordered to serious issues. protect health and social care staff. We took major 12.14 am strides towards developing a vaccine, about which I will seek to give some reassurance. The Minister of State, Department of Health (Gillian Merron): I congratulate the hon. Member for South-West The House will already know that the Department of Norfolk (Christopher Fraser) on securing the debate on Health has signed contracts with manufacturers to supply what is an important matter. I certainly undertake to enough vaccine for the whole population. According to answer any questions that I am unable to answer in the their delivery schedules, we should begin receiving supplies limited time I have available. I will endeavour to do as from August, with enough becoming available for at much as possible before the House rises. I am sure that least 30 million people by the end of the year. Clearly he will understand that it might be difficult to meet his we want the vaccine to be available as soon as possible request, but I will get the answers to him as quickly as but we cannot compromise on safety. I assure the House possible. that we will take all necessary steps to ensure that the I agree with the hon. Gentleman about the need to vaccine is appropriately tested. reassure the general public. They are understandably It is interesting to note that, in preparing for a pandemic, concerned as cases of swine flu increase. I hope that he appropriate trials to assess safety and the immune responses therefore welcomes the statement made today by the have been carried out on vaccines very similar to the Secretary of State for Health, which dealt with a large swine flu vaccine. Those vaccines have been shown to number of the issues about which we have just heard. have a good safety profile. Over 40,000 doses of the said While recent weeks have seen a considerable acceleration vaccines, on which the swine flu vaccines are based, in the rate of spread, it is important that I take the have been given without any safety concerns. There is opportunity to stress that the basic nature of the virus no suggestion that the UK would use a vaccine without has not changed. Swine flu has not become more dangerous. careful consideration of safety issues. We have one of To give some perspective—I know that the hon. Gentleman the most successful immunisation programmes in the agrees with me about the need to give perspective—as world and we intend to keep it that way. We are now with seasonal flu, it remains a mild and self-limiting planning the vaccination programme so we can start illness for the overwhelming majority of people, although administering vaccines to priority groups including NHS it can be severe in a few cases. Of course, I again offer and social care staff as soon as we get the green light to my condolences to the families and friends of those proceed, and we will continue to take the best independent who have lost loved ones. scientific advice on all vaccination questions. 727 Swine Flu20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu 728

[Gillian Merron] to move from containment to treatment, we were clear that the service should be brought into play as soon as it The hon. Gentleman asked how the decision on who was needed on the ground, so I should stress once again gets the vaccine first will be made. As I have said, that the technology to launch the flu service has now administering the vaccines will need to be prioritised, been available for some time. We have been anticipating and we will make a decision when we know more about and waiting for the point when we saw a significant the risk profile. A decision on prioritisation of groups spread across many areas of the country before it of the population will be taken on the basis of which became worth while and sensible to launch the service groups are being most affected by the virus, when the nationally. vaccine arrives, and how best to protect the capacity of What we have seen in recent days is exactly that the national health service. Therefore, there are a range eventuality, for which we have been planning and working. of factors to be taken into account. A significant acceleration in the spread has taken place, with 55,000 new cases of swine flu reported last week Christopher Fraser: I am very grateful to the Minister and an equivalent increase in pressure on front-line for her clear answers to my questions. When decisions services. To give an illustration, on 8 July just six on prioritisation are taken, will local considerations be primary care trusts reported exceptional levels of flu-like taken into account, so that the practitioners on the illness, whereas one week later, on 15 July, the figure ground locally will have the final say? had increased to 110. It was at that point that the Secretary of State took the decision to activate the Gillian Merron: We have to ensure consistency across national pandemic flu service—the decision was based the country, so we will act on the best medical and on demand, not on the availability of technology. This scientific evidence that we have got. means that the service will go live in England by the end The Secretary of State outlined earlier how we would of this week, subject to testing, and will be accompanied keep colleagues in the House informed on these matters by a major public information campaign. during the recess, and I shall come on to that now. The After the launch, people will no longer need to ring Secretary of State confirmed earlier that, following our their general practitioner if they suspect they have request, strategic health authorities will provide weekly swine flu. Instead, they will be able either to answer briefings for MPs coinciding with the Health Protection questions online via the new website or ring the call Agency’s national updates. They will cover the kinds of centre service, where trained staff will be able to assess information that the hon. Gentleman requested, which them over the phone. If swine flu is confirmed, they will are important to all Members as constituency MPs. The then get an authorisation number, which their flu friend information will include the numbers of diagnosed and can use to pick up antivirals from local antiviral collection confirmed cases and of hospitalisations, updates on points. As I said earlier, hon. and right hon. Members antiviral collection points, and local information on any will receive information on the location and number of clusters or other specific developments. There will also collection points as part of a weekly update through be a hotline number to the local SHA so that Members their strategic health authority. have a direct line to express any concerns, make any inquiries and establish what the position is locally. Christopher Fraser: Does the Minister accept that Local arrangements will vary across the country—the many people who feel vulnerable will naturally and hon. Gentleman talked about his constituency being instinctively wish to go to see their GP, rather than go particularly rural—so this local contact is extremely online or make a telephone call? With respect, those important. I can also assure the House that the civil services have historically not been as successful as they contingencies committee will meet weekly during the have been set out to be in the past. Added pressure will summer months and Ministers and officials will be in be put on GPs because people will instinctively still call close contact and in dialogue with their counterparts in them first. the devolved Administrations to ensure a consistent UK-wide approach. Gillian Merron: That tendency is understood, which The hon. Gentleman raised the important issue of is why it is so important that this service has been fully the national pandemic flu service. We have always been tested and will work. It is important to remember that clear that it would be virtually impossible to limit the GPs themselves are asking for this, as are the SHAs and spread of swine flu indefinitely, and in recent weeks it the PCTs; everyone across the NHS is saying, “This will has become apparent that it is no longer effective to help us.” I know that the hon. Gentleman knows that if continue intensive efforts simply to contain the virus. As someone has the virus they should not go to their a result, we switched our emphasis to treating the doctor’s surgery, because they should be staying at increasing numbers getting the virus. I also wish to echo home—I am sure that he promotes that approach in his the comments of the hon. Gentleman and of my right constituency, as I do in mine. That is a very important, hon. Friend the Secretary of State earlier by thanking but I certainly agree about the need to reassure and give all health workers both on the front line and behind the full communication. scenes who have been dealing with the increasing numbers The hon. Gentleman asked about the differences of people with swine flu. between the interim and the full service. An enhanced The national health service is coping extremely well national pandemic flu service, based on the original flu and we should pay tribute to its ability to respond to line design, is still planned to be available by October. times such as this. As the number of cases continues to The key differences between the interim and the enhanced grow, we will need to give extra support, so the national service are the following: the enhanced service will have pandemic flu service will be instrumental in taking the increased functionality to provide greater verification of strain off doctors’ surgeries. When we took the decision patients’ identity against the database; it will have an 729 Swine Flu20 JULY 2009 Swine Flu 730 automated interactive voice response function, in addition with colleagues around the world and with international to call centre handlers; it will allow authorised health organisations, such as the World Health Organisation, care professionals to authorise an antiviral to a patient to ensure that we learn all the necessary lessons about directly, without completing the full IT assessment process; how countries are responding to the pandemic and, and it will have an enhanced clinical algorithm, which indeed, to pass on our own good practice and share. will include separate pathways—separate ways forward—for Containment did not fail— adults and for children, with greater flexibility to alter the assessment process. The hon. Gentleman asked about international work, 12.29 am and I can confirm that the Health Protection Agency House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order and the Department of Health are in regular contact No. 9(7)).

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The expansion described here is a proposition affordable to Written Ministerial Government and viable for universities in order to meet an important need; helping thousands more people achieve their ambitions. Statements It is up to individual institutions whether or not or how many places they want to offer on this basis and we will ask HEFCE to oversee the process. Monday 20 July 2009 This funding for student support, which will be reprioritised from within existing BIS budgets, is in addition to the extra funding for additional student numbers provided in this year’s HEFCE grant letter. That funding was expected to result in an BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS additional 3,000 full time entrants in 2009-10 as well as growth in part time entrants. As a result of this announcement, we expect that there will be Higher Education 50,000 more accepted applicants this year than just three years ago.

The Minister for Higher Education and Intellectual Icelandic Water Trawlermen Scheme Property (Mr. David Lammy): My noble Friend, the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Lord Mandelson) has made the following statement: The Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships This Government are committed to expanding higher education. and Consumer Affairs (Kevin Brennan): My noble Friend There are currently record numbers of students in higher the Minister for Postal Affairs and Employment Relations education with 300,000 additional students in the system since (Lord Youngof Norwood Green) has made the following 1997. Government spending on higher education is over 25 per statement. cent. higher in real terms than in 1997. By contrast, funding fell by 36 per cent. under the previous Government. I am pleased to announce that the Government will shortly be launching the new compensation scheme for former trawlermen Our expansion of higher education is more important now who fished in Icelandic waters. than ever before, as we continue to invest in developing a highly skilled work force that is well placed to win the jobs the future Under this scheme, we will calculate the aggregate time served economy will offer. by each trawlerman during the last 20 years of their career on vessels that fished in Icelandic waters, and make additional payments Demand for places this year is unprecedented, demonstrating whenever the payment due under this calculation exceeds the that people continue to see higher education as a good investment total already paid to them under the two previous compensation and a valuable route to a good job and rewarding career. schemes. Claimants will only be eligible for payments where they We want to support all those with the aspiration and ability to can meet a qualifying test which requires two years’ aggregate succeed in higher education. Work with the sector indicates there service on vessels that fished in Icelandic waters during the four are institutions able to recruit more students to meet the increased years of the cod wars, or the last four years of a trawlerman’s demand without compromising the quality of their offer. career if he left the industry before 31 December 1976. Therefore an extra 10,000 higher education places will be made This approach will direct additional payments to those people available to universities this year to support more students in who were disadvantaged under the previous scheme, because they going to higher education this year. had long Icelandic careers, but received reduced payments or no The Government will pay the student support costs for extra payments at all as a consequence of the breaks rule, which the places in courses related to the new industry, new jobs agenda parliamentary ombudsman criticised in her 2007 report. such as science, technology, engineering and maths—areas which We will consider claims from anyone that applied under the will equip young people with the skills they need for the jobs of previous schemes, or from anyone that has not applied previously the future. where they can submit good and reliable documentary evidence supporting their claim. We have agreed to add an extra vessel to The package will fund the financial support for these students, the original list of Icelandic vessels and will consider the case for which includes, for full-time students the fee loans to cover the adding further vessels, assessing any evidence submitted against cost of the tuition fees charged by institutions. criteria based on that used under the previous scheme. Institutions wishing to take additional students will be able to We plan to formally launch the scheme on 31 July. At launch, charge students on full-time courses in England up to £3,225 in we will announce the scheme through local newspapers in each of tuition fees in 2009-10, the same as for other students. A tuition the ports concerned; establish a helpline to deal with queries and fee loan is available to eligible students to cover the full cost of the issue copies of the application forms and scheme rules; and place fee. this information on the BIS website: www.bis.gov.uk. We will also No additional teaching grant from HEFCE will accompany write to everyone that replied to the recent consultation paper. We these additional students. It is for universities to manage their will allow nine months from launch for people to submit claims. own admissions and we are confident that many will want to offer However, no payments will be made until the vessels list has been high quality places to students on this basis. finalised. This is a fiscally neutral change—the costs of supporting the We believe this scheme represents a fair and equitable way extra students will be met through reprioritising existing budgets forward. It has been designed to meet the concerns raised by the and reducing the optional five year holiday on repayment of parliamentary ombudsman in connection with the previous scheme, student loans to two years. and will enable an estimated 1,000 former trawlermen to receive The repayment holiday on student loans was announced in additional payments totalling around £5 million to £10 million. July 2007. All students starting a higher education course in 2008-09 or later, taking out their first student loan and having a Statement of Insolvency Practice 16 repayment start date of April 2012 or later are entitled to a repayment holiday. The intention is to help borrowers to manage their finances if there are other changes in their lives. Qualifying The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, borrowers will now be offered the choice of putting their student Innovation and Skills (Ian Lucas): The Insolvency Service loan repayments on hold for up to two years as opposed to up to is today publishing its first report on the operation of five years as announced in July 2007. Statement of Insolvency Practice 16 (SIP 16). 89WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 90WS

SIP 16 sets out required practice for insolvency credits to no more than 5 per cent. of finalised entitlement practitioners who carry out pre-packaged administrations. by the end of March 2011. HMRC is committed to The Insolvency Service’s report examines practitioners’ delivering to achieve this target. compliance with the SIP in its first six months of At the same time HMRC also published a new strategy operation, and the conduct of directors who have engaged for reducing error and fraud. By using the Department’s in pre-packs. A further report will be issued in early improved understanding of risks, and of customer needs, 2010. it has already introduced additional checks and interventions Copies have been placed in the Libraries of both tailored to help prevent error entering the system while Houses. ensuring those who abuse the system are caught. HMRC The report is available at: has also been embedding this deeper understanding of http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/ customer behaviour into its entire compliance programme, insolvencyprofessionandlegislation/policychange/ deploying resources to areas of greatest risk. sip16-final.pdf By helping customers to get their claim right from the outset, and to keep their award on track, HMRC is reducing the risk of loss and improving customer service. Through the tax credits transformation programme it is TREASURY now offering better support to customers—for example, HMRC is helping new customers to make their claim accurately, tailoring the level of extra support to their particular needs. The Department is also contacting EC Budget White Paper large numbers of customers to check that their tax credits award remains up-to-date throughout the year and continues to reflect their current circumstances. The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Ian Pearson): Additional assistance is also being provided to some I am today laying before Parliament, the annual European vulnerable customers when they renew their claims. Community Finances White Paper “Statement on the Overall HMRC is contacting over 500,000 customers 2009 EC budget and measures to combat fraud and this year offering additional help. financial mismanagement” (Cm 7640). This White Paper is the 29th in the series. It gives details of revenue and HMRC has also introduced additional checks of expenditure in the 2009 EC budget and covers recent many new claims, making better use of information it developments in EC financial management and measures already holds to prevent financial loss from some of the to counter fraud against the EC budget. It also includes most frequent mistakes. It is also contacting certain updated details on the own resources decision, the UK customers who have not reported changes of circumstances consolidated statement on the use of EU funds in the for some time to offer assistance to make sure their UK, and new text on the European economic recovery award is up to date and correct. HMRC is also expanding plan. its outreach work through children’s centres by providing advice and support to customers. On fraud, the Department has implemented a range Tax Credits of measures designed to restrict the opportunity for abuse of the system. These include tighter control on the issue of claim forms, fraud awareness training for The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. Stephen staff, and deploying compliance officers in tax credit Timms): Tax credits are delivering guaranteed minimum call centres. Efforts to target organised fraud have incomes for working families and families with children, successfully reduced the level of identified losses due to reducing child poverty, and improving work incentives. organised fraud from the levels in 2005-06. HMRC In these tough economic times they provide support to prevented incorrect tax credits payments due to organised 20 million people including around 6 million families fraud of £66 million in 2007-08. and 10 million children. Take-up is now higher than for HMRC is also getting tougher on individuals who any previous system of income-related financial support commit fraud. It is increasing its use of data matching, for in-work families. using information from a wide variety of sources, within Against this backdrop HM Revenue and Customs Government and beyond, to identify those who attempt has today published its estimate of error and fraud in to abuse the system. It is also sharing intelligence with tax credits for 2007-08. The collection, analysis and other Government agencies and investigating cases jointly publication of this data help inform efforts to strengthen with the Department of Work and Pensions. Those who the administration of the programme. are caught face being charged a penalty and interest in The analysis—based on a sample of 4,100 cases— addition to repaying the amount they defrauded, and in estimates error and fraud at 8.6 per cent. of finalised tax the most serious cases, the Department can and does credit entitlements for 2007-08. This comprises error prosecute. This approach is consistent with HMRC’s favouring the claimant at 7.8 per cent. of finalised vision about being passionate in helping those who entitlements, and fraud at 0.7 per cent. This compares need it and being relentless in pursuing those who bend with the 2006-07 central estimate of error and fraud at or break the rules. 7.8 per cent. HMRC will use the analysis published today to refine The Government are determined to reduce the incidence its strategy further. of error and fraud in tax credits. In July of last year, the A copy of these statistics has been deposited in the Government set HM Revenue and Customs a target to Libraries of both Houses and is available on the HMRC reduce the combined levels of error and fraud in tax website. 91WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 92WS

CABINET OFFICE document, which includes a summary of consultation responses and a sustainability statement. This final, single issue revision to the east of England plan reflects Government and Voluntary Sector Compact consideration of responses to the consultation on the Secretary of State’s proposed changes, which were made in the light of the recommendations of the independent The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Angela E. panel who conducted an examination in public into the Smith): I am today placing in the Library of both draft policy. Houses, copies of the report of the annual meeting held This is the completion of an important single issue on 2 December 2008 and the action plan 2009-10. revision to the east of England plan, which was published The independent Commissioner for the Compact, Sir in May 2008. It builds on the foundations of the draft Bert Massie spoke about the state of the relationship policy, which was prepared by the east of England between Government and the sector and the findings regional assembly and the findings of the independent from the debate on the future of the Compact: panel who conducted an examination in public. To keep a values based and voluntary Compact; The policies that are published today become part of To update the Compact as a single document that takes the East of England plan and provide a framework for account of changes over the ten years since the Compact was local planning authorities to prepare relevant policies in first signed; their development plan documents, which must be in To look at changes to the structure of the Commission for the general conformity with the East of England plan. Compact and options to put it on a statutory footing. The strategy reflected in the final policies aims to We now have the opportunity to renew the Compact guide development of additional accommodation for for the 21st century, to ensure it is stronger and capable Gypsies and Travellers and travelling showpeople in the of delivering for both the public and third sectors in a East of England most immediately to 2011, and in the changing economic environment. Simon Blake, the Chair longer term to 2021. of Compact Voice, and I, as representatives of the two signatories to the Compact, have asked Sir Bert to begin The policies adopt the independent panel’s conclusion work engaging both sectors on updating the Compact that the number of pitches in the region should be documents, and in making changes to the Commission. slightly increased from the total proposed in the draft This will build on work the Commission has already policy, in recognition of the pressing need for additional achieved to ensure the Compact is better understood accommodation in the East of England. They also and accepted. reflect the panel’s conclusions that the revision should make provision for additional transit sites for temporary The refresh of the Compact is a major piece or work use by Gypsies and Travellers and more permanent to be done as part of our joint action plan for the next plots for seasonal use by travelling showpeople. The year. The action plan has been developed by the spatial strategy reflected in the policies provides for Commission, Compact Voice, Office of the Third Sector meeting the most pressing accommodation needs where and the Local Government Association—taking account they arise coupled with an equitable distribution of of the discussion at the annual review. Along with the additional pitch and plot requirements across the region’s report of the annual review meeting I am also placing local authority areas. copies of the Joint Compact Action Plan 2009-10 in both Houses. The action plan is grouped around four The policies were subject to assessment under the themes: habitats regulations. The sustainability statement concludes Raising the profile of the Compact that the policies are in accordance with the principles of Building our knowledge sustainable development and that they do not give rise Embedding in structures, processes and policy to adverse environmental impacts. Maintaining the relevance of the Compact. The culmination of this single issue review of the At the annual review meeting my predecessor also East of England plan represents an important milestone announced the baseline for annual reporting on the in putting in place a strategic framework for addressing commitment to three-year funding for the Third Sector the pressing accommodation needs of the Gypsy and by Government Departments. The percentage of the Traveller and travelling showpeople communities. The value of all Government grants that have been reported essential task now is to ensure that the policies are to OTS that are for three years or more is 85.4 per cent. implemented quickly and effectively. We look forward A baseline will also be set in 2009-10 for performance to working with the local authorities and other key on contracts and performance by NDPBs and agencies. partners on their delivery. The policies resulting from the review, together with COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT the supporting document have been placed in the Library of the House and have been provided for all of the East of England Regional Spatial Strategy region’s MPs, MEPs and local authorities.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Planning Communities and Local Government (Mr. Shahid Malik): My right. hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government is today publishing The Minister for Housing (John Healey): On 2 April the revision to the east of England plan—the revision to 2009 the Government informed Parliament about the the East of England regional spatial strategy—concerning review into the extent and impact of housing development accommodation for Gypsies and Travellers and travelling on garden land. This explained that the review would be showpeople, together with the accompanying supporting carried out in two stages. 93WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 94WS

I can today confirm that we received 127 detailed precautionary approach, restricting any development in responses from local planning authorities to stage 1 of areas at risk of coastal erosion. This means that even the review, and that stage 2 is being carried out by appropriate development that would support the economic Kingston University, London. I have asked them to and social viability of a coastal town or village is unable consider the following: to go ahead. whether there has been any increase or decrease in development To deal with this, the proposed development and in gardens from 1 April 2003 to 31 March 2008, and the coastal change policy aims to strike a better balance reasons for any change; between economic prosperity and the need for further the impact of the brownfield definition and brownfield target defence of the coastline, alongside reducing the in planning policy statement 3 on any increase or decrease in consequences of coastal change on communities. development in gardens; The draft policy promotes a strategic risk-based approach whether development on garden land is widespread, or confined to a handful of authorities or certain areas of the country; to managing future physical changes to the coastline, so that long-term adaptation of communities can be planned the contribution that this type of development makes towards local housing delivery objectives and the impact that any while allowing necessary development that is appropriate restrictions on development on garden land would have; and safe. It will also introduce a more co-ordinated the role of the planning inspectorate in determining appeals approach to planning and investment at the coast, for development on garden land—typified by accusations that ensuring that spatial strategies to deliver regeneration they force the hand of local authorities by routinely overturning and sustainable economic development take proper account decisions on garden development; of the impact of physical processes affecting the coastline whether local authorities are developing local policies in line and decisions regarding the planning and management with advice from Government and the policy in planning of coastal defences. policy statement 3, and in particular whether local policies on This consultation forms part of a wider package of brownfield development and trajectories are being developed; actions being taken forward to deliver the Government’s and sustainable flood and coastal risk management approach whether local policies developed in accordance with PPS3 are set out in the “Making Space for Water” strategy. The effective in supporting local authorities’ decisions on garden development at appeal, and to establish the common reasons “Coastal Change Policy” framework, which my right for local objections to development on garden land. hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs announced for consultation on Our aim is to conclude the review and make a further 15 June, provides a package of policy measures to help announcement and publish summary findings and evidence coastal communities and local authorities manage and to Parliament after the summer recess. adapt to the increasing risk of coastal flooding and The purpose of the review is to establish whether erosion. there is a clear and genuine problem with the extent of The proposed changes I am setting out today will housing development on gardens. And, as we have play a part in assisting coastal communities in adapting previously confirmed, the Government are committed to the impacts of climate change and facilitating economic to considering action if the evidence confirms a problem, activity in coastal areas. The consultation closes on provided that any changes should not have the effect of 12 October 2009. undermining our objectives on housing. 1The “UK Climate Projections 2009”, published 18 June 2009

Planning Policy Statement (Coastal Erosion) DEFENCE The Minister for Housing (John Healey): I am today publishing a consultation on proposals for new Planning Haslar Hospital Site Policy on Development and Coastal Change, and I am placing copies of the consultation in the Library of the House. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence Coastal communities have historically adapted to the (Mr. Kevan Jones): The Royal Hospital Haslar is an changing coastline as sea levels have risen steadily since important historical site. It opened to patients in 1754 the end of the last ice age. However, on the basis of the and formally ceased to be a military hospital in 2007, latest projections provided by UKCP091, climate change although it continued treating NHS patients until July is likely to exacerbate erosion and coastal flooding with this year when clinical facilities and Defence Medical rising sea levels and a potential increase in the intensity, Services personnel were transferred to the Queen Alexandra severity and frequency of coastal storms over the next Hospital, Cosham, and elsewhere. 100 years. The future use of this site, which extends to some Government are committed to managing the impact 23 hectares and comprises around 75,000 square metres of coastal erosion and flooding in a sustainable manner, of buildings, 13 of which are Grade II listed, is clearly and this includes ensuring that our spatial planning an important issue locally and nationally. Accordingly, policies support communities that are resilient to the in 2008, the Ministry of Defence commissioned an risks presented by climate change. Enquiry by Design led by the Princes Regeneration Strong planning policy to manage coastal flooding is Trust and the Princes Foundation for the Built Environment. already in place through planning policy statement 25. The enquiry concluded that alternative uses should However, currently planning decisions in relation to include new enabling development and that every effort coastal erosion risks are made with reference to planning should be made to retain some medical and health care policy guidance note 20, which adopts a strongly presence on the site. 95WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 96WS

An expressions of interest campaign was undertaken Chair and Chief Executive of the GSCC on 6 July to earlier this year and a number of bids were received by seek reassurances from them. The Council reported the closing date. I am announcing today that Our that there were 21 cases where the allegations, though Enterprise, a community interest company that brokers unproven, suggested that there could have been an and delivers bespoke commercial partnerships between ongoing risk of harm to members of the public. charities, social investors, commercial operators and the Ministers asked the Council to ensure that urgent public sector to deliver large-scale integrated regeneration action was taken to address any potential threat to projects, has been chosen as our preferred bidder for the public safety that could arise if these individuals were site. Our Enterprise has been chosen as our preferred continuing to work as social workers, by establishing bidder for the site in accordance with Government their whereabouts, to ensure that any who were still in policy on the disposal of historic buildings. We expect employment were being safely and appropriately managed to exchange contracts with the purchaser and complete while the allegations were investigated. GSCC has been the transfer by the autumn, if not earlier. working to ensure that any employers of these individuals Our Enterprise has a vision of promoting the quality are aware of the allegations made and to ensure that the of life for both individuals residing on the site and for individuals concerned have not sought employment Gosport as a whole and will continue social and health elsewhere. care on the site by providing a “Veterans Village”, On Friday 17 July, the Department received information student accommodation, community health care and a from the GSCC regarding all 21 cases. The GSCC commercial centre as well as residential uses. I believe confirmed that either the individuals concerned are that the choice of preferred bidder for Haslar is good employed as social workers by known employers who news for the local community, and will preserve the are aware of the allegations that have been made and heritage and visual aspects of this important site. are managing any risks or, as far as the Council can ascertain, they are not currently employed as social workers. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE In the light of Ministers’ concerns around public UK Strategy for Radioactive Discharges safety, my officials facilitated a team to work with GSCC to ensure that all cases in the backlog were reviewed to determine if any were high risk. Following The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy this review, a small number of other cases have been and Climate Change (Mr. David Kidney): My noble identified which are being investigated. Ministers are Friend the Minister of State for Energy and Climate seeking urgent further assurances that every possible Change today made the following statement. step has now been taken to ensure that none of these The OSPAR Radioactive Substances Strategy was agreed by individuals present a current risk. Ministers of all contracting parties in 1998. The objective of the In all cases where the GSCC has assessed that there strategy is to prevent pollution of the maritime area covered by may be a potential ongoing risk, panels are scheduled to the OSPAR convention (convention for the protection of the have met by Friday 24 July to consider the imposition of marine environment of the north-east Atlantic) from ionising radiation through progressive and substantial reductions in radioactive an interim suspension order on the individual in question discharges. pending the outcome of the GSCC’s investigations. It was agreed that contracting parties should report to the The fact that a backlog of conduct referrals, some of OSPAR Commission on progress in achieving the aims of the which had not been adequately risk assessed, has built 1998 strategy. up is a matter of extreme concern. We understand that Today, an updated Strategy for Radioactive Discharges (the GSCC has therefore suspended its Chief Executive first having been published in 2002) was published by the Department while it looks into how the issue arose. for Energy and Climate Change. The UK Discharges Strategy forms our national report on progress and will be presented at the As an interim measure, Paul Philip, currently Deputy next OSPAR ministerial meeting in 2010. Chief Executive at the General Medical Council, is The UK Strategy is available via the DECC website: joining GSCC as acting chief executive. www.decc.gov.uk. The Department of Health is today commissioning the Council for Healthcare Regulatory Excellence to carry out a wide-ranging review of the governance and HEALTH performance of the GSCC. The purpose of the review is to establish what further action is needed to ensure that Regulation of Social Care Ministers, Parliament and the public can have confidence that the GSCC is effectively carrying out its statutory duties to promote high standards of conduct and practice The Secretary of State for Health (Andy Burnham): in order to protect the public. The GSCC supports the The General Social Care Council (GSCC) is the professional review, which will report to Ministers by the end of regulatory body for social workers in England and has September. statutory responsibility for investigating complaints against social workers. In June, the Department of Health became aware that a backlog of conduct referrals had NHS Access (Foreign Nationals) developed at the GSCC and liaised with GSCC to determine the scope and nature of the problem. On 2 July, Ministers were alerted as the GSCC had The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health identified a backlog in the management of 203 complaints (Ann Keen): Since the publication of the cross-government against social workers registered with it. Ministers were immigration enforcement strategy “Enforcing the rules: very concerned about any risk to the public and met the a strategy to ensure and enforce compliance with our 97WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 98WS immigration laws” the Department of Health and the delayed from those that require it. We are currently Home Office have been working together to review the engaging with key stakeholders to ensure that guidance rules on charging non-UK residents for access to National to the NHS in this respect is clear and comprehensive. Health Service services in England. The principles of providing immediately necessary The House will wish to know that the joint review has treatment must always be applied to any maternity care, concluded and the Government are today able to outline to ensure that the health of the mother or baby is not its conclusions. put at any risk. Maternity treatment therefore must never be delayed or denied. However, the Government The National Health Service was founded over 60 years have not been persuaded that charges should be abolished ago. Sixty years on this Government remain committed in relation to non-exempt patients for maternity treatment. to their founding principles; a national health service There is clear case evidence that a small number of for the benefit of the people of the United Kingdom, visitors enter the United Kingdom specifically to use free at the point of delivery and funded by general NHS maternity services. taxation. In relation to HIV treatment, the Government recognise However, it is neither feasible to operate the NHS that clinical evidence on treatment, including their role without proper controls over access, nor fair, in an age in prevention, is developing constantly. Moreover, HIV of mass global travel and movement, to ask the taxpayer is a major global problem, the control of which creates to fund unrestricted access to non-UK/EEA nationals. significant financial as well as human costs. We will It is the Government’s responsibility to protect NHS therefore undertake further analysis of the latest medical resources from exploitation or inappropriate use. and public health evidence together with consideration That is why, in concluding the review, the Government of how the current policy on treatment aligns with the are today announcing measures to support a clearer Government’s wider international aid strategy for HIV. and fairer system of access to NHS services—a transparent This analysis will inform a future decision on whether system that will maintain the confidence of the public the current treatment policy (that only initial diagnosis by preventing inappropriate access. and counselling is offered free of charge to non-UK residents or individuals who are not otherwise exempt) The Government have decided to maintain the should be revised. current system of charging non-residents for most secondary care (hospital) services. Treatment in an The Government also propose that the period of accident and emergency department, and treatment for absence for current residents that can be disregarded for specified infectious diseases that could create a public the purpose of determining continued eligibility for free health risk, will remain free to all. The Government NHS hospital treatment in England is extended from also propose limited extensions to the current range of three to up to six months. This proposed change reflects exemptions from charges for hospital treatment for the increasing tendency towards longer periods of travel certain non-residents. overseas for some people, and will protect the rights of British citizens who travel abroad while still residing Persons seeking refuge or asylum are already exempted substantively in the United Kingdom. from charges for the duration of their application including the full appeal process. The Government have not been The Government acknowledge that general practitioners persuaded that this full exemption should be extended are well placed to take account of the health care needs to all of those whose application has failed but have not of their local communities. GPs also play a pivotal role yet left the country. It has however recognised the case in the provision of public health services (in which they for those whose claim has been refused but who are are currently at the forefront of our response to the being supported by the UK Border Agency because threat of pandemic swine flu). Since the inception of they would otherwise be destitute, have children and or the NHS GPs have had the responsibility of determining because it is impossible to return them home through whether a particular individual should become a patient no fault of their own. It is therefore proposed that an of their practice. This applies to all patients and while exemption from charges is extended to this group. the discretion we give to GPs is limited, for example, decisions must not be discriminatory, we do not believe The Government also propose to exempt from charges that any specific changes are required in respect of all unaccompanied minors, including those in local foreign nationals. Where an individual is refused registration, authority care, while clarifying the principle that the a GP is able to offer routine treatment on a private fee accompanying parent or guardian of a non-resident paying basis, but must provide any immediately necessary minor is responsible for the cost of their NHS treatment. treatment free of charge. Together with the exemption for victims of human trafficking that was introduced from April this year, A small minority of visitors deliberately seek to enter these changes reinforce the protection and rights to the UK, legally or illegally, in order to access NHS health care of the most vulnerable groups, regardless of services without payment, some returning on a number their residential status. of occasions for additional treatment while their previous debt remains unpaid. We therefore believe that there is a While maintaining the principle that other visitors or strong justification for practical working level co-operation irregular migrants who are not specifically exempted between the NHS and UK Border Agency to apply should be charged for their treatment, and that, in immigration sanctions to those seeking leave to enter or non-urgent circumstances, treatment will be withheld if remain when they have substantial uncleared debts to the costs are not paid, the Government remain firmly the NHS. It is only fair that these individuals are committed to the requirement that immediately necessary prevented from returning to the United Kingdom, or and other urgent treatment should never be denied or extending their stay here, until they have cleared their 99WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 100WS debt. The Government therefore propose to amend the The new guide is available from the House Library. immigration rules to provide that non-EEA nationals The guide can also be accessed on the Forced Marriage will normally be refused permission to enter or remain Unit’s website at: www.fco.gov.uk/forcedmarriage, and in the United Kingdom if they have significant debts to further hard copies can be obtained directly from the the NHS. unit at the following address: The Government are also attracted to the principle of Forced Marriage Unit visitors (who are not covered by EEA or other reciprocal Foreign and Commonwealth Office health agreements), being required to have personal Room G58 health insurance provision, as is already the case in Old Admiralty Building some other countries. We intend initially to seek views on the merits and feasibility of such a scheme that will London SW1A 2PA inform further work to evaluate possible options. The proposals apply to England only. The Government will however consult with devolved Administrations, Proceeds of Crime particularly with regard to the proposals on health tourism and health insurance where they may be benefits in a United Kingdom wide approach. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the The proposed policy changes in this statement will be Home Department (Mr. Alan Campbell): I am pleased put to public consultation in the autumn and full supporting to be able to provide a schedule of costs, which has been information will be provided at that time. Subject to a prepared exceptionally for 2008-09, following the merger positive consultation outcome, revised regulations will of the Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA) and then be laid as required to enable changes to take effect. the Assets Recovery Agency (ARA) on 1 April 2008. The figures in the schedule show the sum of assets recovered by SOCA in 2008-09 to be in the region of HOME DEPARTMENT £3.9 million more than the cost of their recovery activities using the powers inherited from ARA. SOCA is tasked with reducing the harm caused to the UK by organised Counter-terrorism crime, and numbers alone do not tell the full story, but in the first year of SOCA’s use of these new powers it exceeded the Government’s target for civil recovery on The Secretary of State for the Home Department its own. The Government believe that SOCA’s performance (Alan Johnson): Today, 20 July, the Joint Terrorism in this area of activity fully vindicates its decision to Analysis Centre (JTAC) changed the UK threat level merge both agencies. from international terrorism from severe to substantial. This means that a terrorist attack is a strong possibility. The figures provide, as far as it is possible to do, an assessment of the costs incurred by the Serious Organised The change in the threat level to substantial does not Crime Agency in recovering assets using powers inherited mean the overall threat has gone away—there remains a from ARA during the first year following the merger. real and serious threat against the United Kingdom and Assessing the costs associated to a single work stream I would ask the public remain vigilant. within SOCA has proved challenging and significantly The decision to change the threat level is taken by more complex than the calculations that could be made JTAC independently of Ministers and is based on the for ARA, which was focused on a single area of activity. very latest intelligence, considering factors such as capability, Given that former ARA work is now only part of a intent and timescale. Substantial continues to indicate a larger organisation with much wider aims and objectives high level of threat; and that an attack might well occur and significantly larger and more varied overhead costs, without further warning. The threat level is kept under a like-for-like comparison is difficult. constant review. SOCA’s remit is to reduce the harm caused to the UK by serious organised crime. To achieve this SOCA deploys Forced Marriage Case Handling Guide a range of tools. These include: criminal justice interventions (arrests and prosecutions); action to deny criminals access to assets through the use of proceeds of crime The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the legislation and other measures; the disruption of criminal Home Department (Mr. Alan Campbell): Today the markets and organisations; and the use of ancillary Forced Marriage Unit (a joint Home Office/Foreign orders such as Serious Crime Prevention Orders. The and Commonwealth Office unit) launches its Forced use of these tools is mainstreamed into the operational Marriage Case Handling Guide for MPs and Constituency activity of the agency. Most operations deploy a number Offices. of these tools. It is not possible to identify, in a manner The guide aims to help Members of Parliament and which could be audited, the costs associated with the their staff when they are faced with issues related to use of specific tools within any given operation. The forced marriage. It offers background on the issue and identification of costs for powers inherited from ARA gives suggestions of best practice for supporting victims is less problematic as civil recovery operations were run and dealing with their families. It gives details of the as a discrete area of the business in 2008-09. Forced Marriage Unit and of non-Government organisations The receipts from SOCA’s asset recovery work are who can offer help and advice and also gives contact not intended to cover the operating costs of SOCA as a details of UK embassies/ High Commissions overseas. whole. 101WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 102WS

Summary Analysis of ARA/SOCA Expenditure on Asset Recovery (2003-04 to 2008-09) 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 ARA ARA ARA ARA ARA Actual Actual Actual Actual Actual Actuals £’000 £’000 £’000 £’000 £’000

1. Total Reported ARA Expenditure 10,889 14,085 23,617 24,927 24,598 2. Less i) Centre of Excellence Direct Costs -759 -1,231 -1,625 -1,731 -2,034 ii) Overheads on C of E Costs(2) -637 -1,033 -1,363 -1,379 -1,779 3. SOCA Costs i) Direct Costs - Staff 6,374 -Other Including Receivership Fees 5,910 ii) Overhead Recharges (Notes 3 & 4) 4,885 4. = Cost of Asset Recovery Activities 9,493 11,821 20,629 21,817 20,785 17,169 5. Adj for Change of VAT Status (Note 5) -853 6. Comparable Annual Cost Levels 9,493 11,821 20,629 21,817 20,785 16,316 7. Cash Value of Assets Recovered -2 -4,384 -4,119 -15,912 -9,225 -20,175 8. Net Cost (Surplus) In Year 9,491 7,437 16,510 5,905 11,560 -3,859 9. Cumulative Cost (Surplus) 9,491 16,929 33,439 39,344 50,904 47,044 Notes 1. Overview—This statement compares costs in SOCA of taking forward proceeds of crime activities previously undertaken by ARA. It includes an accumulated cost at the request of NAO as the original remit for ARA was that this work would in the longer-term be self-funding. The 2008-09 outturn shows a surplus for the first time, mainly because overhead costs in SOCA are much lower than those in ARA. 2. Centre of Excellence Overheads for 2003-04 to 2005-06 are calculated at 84 per cent. of direct costs based on the average of the 2006-07 and 2007-08 actual costs reported by ARA. 3. Overhead costs in SOCA are c 40 per cent.based on full recovery of all SOCA’s infrastructure costs (that is, accommodation; security; IT systems etc) across operational activity areas including former ARA services. 4. The overhead savings are represented in practice by the fact that SOCA has been able to reduce accommodation costs in London and also by the ability to release c 50 FTE staff into other SOCA operational activities following the merger. 5. SOCA costs include VAT which ARA was able to recover—VAT is cost neutral in total public purse terms and deducted from SOCA costs to facilitate direct comparison with ARA costs. Even without this adjustment, a surplus would be shown in 2008-09.

INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT JUSTICE

Access to Justice United Nations System-wide Fund

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice The Minister of State, Department for International (Bridget Prentice): Today we are announcing the Development (Mr. Gareth Thomas): The new White Government’s response to the Civil Justice Council’s Paper “Eliminating World Poverty: Building our Common report on “Collective Actions: Improving Access to Future” sets out the Government’s vision of a more Justice through Collective Actions”. focused and effective UN that plans, manages and The Civil Justice Council published its report on delivers ‘as one’ for the world’s most vulnerable people. collective actions on 12 December 2008. The report The Government’s intention is to put more of our proposed that a general legal right for representative funding through system-wide mechanisms that encourage bodies to bring collective actions should be created, and a joined up, efficient and effective UN effort. that this should be possible either in respect of an Today I am confirming a pledge I made at the 2008 identified group of claimants or on behalf of an entire MDG High-level Event to provide £40 million (over class, that is, for both named and unnamed claimants. 2009 to 2011) through the new UN MDG “Delivering Whether to allow a particular collective action to proceed, as One” fund. This new facility, developed jointly with and whether on an identified group or class basis, Spain, Norway and the Netherlands, will fund UN-led would be a matter left to judicial discretion. development work in countries where UN agencies have The Council’s recommendation included: agreed one programme, one budget, shared back-office Increasing the types of representative bodies that can bring services and one strong leader. Experience over recent claims. years indicates that this approach leads to a stronger, more effective and efficient UN at country level, better Making the judiciary the gatekeeper of the procedure. able to support developing countries’ national programmes Permitting claims to be brought on an opt-out basis where it is to meet the MDGs. So far 12 developing countries have in the best interests of justice. adopted this ‘one UN’ approach and others are expected Changing the law to permit the award of aggregate damages. to follow. UK funding will be closely linked to performance The Government are grateful to the Civil Justice to ensure that the new fund contributes to improved Council for carrying out this review, and welcome the efficiency and effectiveness in the UN’s work. report and its analysis, identifying where further work 103WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 104WS or reforms are needed and setting out the case for The Civil Service change. The report has been carefully considered and Place the Civil Service and Civil Service Commissioners the Government have concluded that collective actions on a statutory footing, and enshrine the Civil Service’s would be best taken forward on a sector by sector basis. core values in statute. We do not believe that the creation of a generic right to collective action would be appropriate. Treaties There are a number of reasons why we have reached Enshrine in statute the procedure for pre-ratification these conclusions. A generic right would introduce the scrutiny of treaties by Parliament, and give legal effect possibility of collective actions for any and all types of to a vote against ratification. civil claim in every sector of society and the economy. It House of Lords would be very difficult to assess impacts across the Phase out the hereditary principle in the House of entire economy and if the overall benefit was positive Lords, by ending by-elections for hereditary peers; provide that might fail to highlight individual areas where the for the disqualification from the House of Lords of impact might be adverse. peers convicted of a serious crime or subject to a In addition there may be substantive law issues relating bankruptcy restrictions order; enable the House of Lords to damages. The potential for a shortfall or surplus cuts to expel or suspend its Members in certain circumstances; across the compensatory principle underpinning (most) and provide for peers to resign and disclaim their peerages. civil damages and the appropriate approach may vary Demonstrations around Parliament according to the type of claim involved and in particular the type of representative body bringing the action. Repeal sections 132 to 138 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005, removing the requirement Nevertheless, collective actions are potentially a useful to give notice of demonstrations around Parliament, as way to manage mass legal claims in a number of areas well as the offence of holding a demonstration without where a large number of people are likely to have the authorisation of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner. related grievances. However, there may be strong arguments The Bill will instead enable the police to be given both for and against the introduction of collective proportionate, alternative powers to maintain access to action in any particular sector and the Government do Parliament. not think it would make sense to impose a one size fits all policy across the whole economy. Human Rights—“Somerville” Each sector will be responsible for deciding whether Reconcile the time limit for human rights claims to introduce a right of action and for developing the under the Northern Ireland Act 1988 and the Government required legislation, where there is evidence of need and of Wales Act 2006 with that in the Human Rights Act following an assessment of economic and other impacts. 1998. Due to the interface between this Bill and parallel For example, if the consumer sector, having considered provision for Scotland in an Act of the Scottish Parliament alternative approaches and taken account of stakeholder which has yet to receive Royal Assent, the same provision views and economic impacts into account, decided that for Scotland will be introduced by amendment at the collective court actions offered a way forward then they appropriate time. would be able to ask Parliament to give representative Judicial Appointments bodies the right to bring actions on behalf of consumers. Remove the Prime Minister from the process of making The Government will work to develop a framework appointments to the new Supreme Court (this complements document which will in essence consist of a “toolkit” non-legislative measures ending his involvement in the for legislators. It will identify the key features that appointment of other Members of the senior judiciary legislation granting new rights of action will need to of England and Wales); and remove the provision enabling contain. In conjunction with this the Ministry of Justice the Judicial Appointments Commission to assume will develop rules of court. These will be designed to responsibility for magistrates’ appointments. interface with new rights of action and will be sufficiently flexible to deal with any different approaches taken by National Audit Office sectors in respect of such issues as authorisation of Provide a modern governance arrangement for the bodies, allocation of damages and whether claims are National Audit Office, and change the tenure of the to be brought on an opt-in or an opt-out basis. Comptroller and Auditor General. Subject to any sector-specific exceptions, the rules Transparency in accounting for NDPBs will also include provisions for mandatory use of alternative Align the spending mechanisms of non-departmental dispute procedures, certification, security for costs, case public bodies with the existing budgetary treatment. management and fairness hearings. Copies of the Government response have been placed The Bill follows the proposals in the Governance of in the Libraries of both Houses and it is available on the Britain Green Paper of July 2007 (CM 7170) and the Ministry of Justice website at: www.justice.gov.uk. The publication of a draft Bill (published in March 2008, Civil Justice Council’s report is available on the Civil Cm 7342-11). Justice Council website at: www.civiljusticecouncil.gov.uk. The issues covered in the draft Bill were the subject of examination by three Select Committees: Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill The Joint Committee on the Draft Constitutional Renewal Bill (report of 31 July 2008, HL Paper 166-1, HC Paper 551-1); The Justice Committee (report on the Draft Constitutional The Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor Renewal Bill (provisions relating to the Attorney General), (Mr. Jack Straw): The Government have today published HC 698); and the Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill. The The Public Administration Select Committee (report on Bill includes the following reforms, to: Constitutional Renewal: Draft Bill and White Paper, HC 499). 105WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 106WS

The Government are very grateful indeed for the scrutiny as soon as possible. The two key issues are the work of these Committees, and are publishing, today, electoral system and the size of the elected element their response to these reports. (80 per cent. or 100 per cent.). The Government are On 3 July 2007, my right hon. Friend the Prime giving careful and active consideration to resolving Minister made a major statement on the case for these questions in such a way as to make best use of a constitutional reform. Alongside this, more detail was transitional period. given in the governance of Britain Green Paper. A Attorney-General number of subsequent separate consultation papers The Draft Constitutional Renewal Bill contained were published, including on the role of the Attorney- provisions in respect of the office of Attorney-General, General (CM 7192), judicial appointments (CM 7210), following the governance of Britain Green Paper, which war powers and treaties (CM7239) and protest around set out the Government’s commitment to enhancing Parliament (CM 7235). The draft Constitutional Renewal public confidence and trust in the office, and the Bill was published on 25 March 2008 (CM 73423-2) and Government said that they would listen to the views of a Joint Committee of both Houses set up to consider all those with an interest. A consultation paper was the draft Bill. subsequently published on 25 July 2007. Of all the The Government have taken full account of the responses matters covered in the draft Bill, this was been the to the consultation and the reports of the Select Committees subject of most extensive comment, with bespoke reports in finalising the proposals in the Bill. from the Justice Committee and the Select Committee A fundamental aim of the governance of Britain on the Constitution and extensive treatment—including agenda has been to reduce the power of the executive, minority views, with support from across all three main including by ending the use of relevant royal prerogative political parties—from the Joint Committee on the powers, and to enhance the role of Parliament. The draft Bill. provisions in respect of the civil service and treaties Those reports disclosed a wide range of views on the mark a major move in that direction. The Government direction that reform of the office might take. For have already announced that it would ensure that the example, the Justice Committee favoured separating the Commons will have a pivotal position in determining Attorney’s legal and political functions; a majority of whether the United Kingdom goes to war, by means of the Joint Committee disagreed; and the House of Lords a war powers resolution. Drafts of this have already Select Committee on the Constitution noted that ‘there been published and will go before Parliament in the are a number of different ways in which the post of autumn. Attorney might evolve’, providing an overview of the House of Lords different options and arguments. In the event, the significant, necessary reforms to the Detailed work on the reform of the Lords had been role of Attorney-General are being achieved without undertaken in parallel with the governance of Britain the need for legislation. For example, the Attorney has agenda. A White Paper was published last July (2008, reached a new settlement with the Directors of Public CM) building on the decisions of the Commons in Prosecutions, the Serious Fraud Office and Revenue February 2007 in favour of an 80 per cent. or 100 per and Customs Prosecutions to improve relationships, cent. elected House of Lords. No proposals in respect guarantee prosecutorial independence while ensuring of the Lords were therefore included in the draft an appropriate degree of accountability and to improve Constitutional Renewal Bill. transparency about the relationship, as reflected in the However, in view of recent events and increased new protocol setting out the respective responsibilities interest in the Lords’ reform agenda, the Government of the Attorney and the Directors. This builds on the have decided to include in the Bill reforms to: Prime Minister’s statement in July 2007, that the Attorney- a) end the hereditary peers by-elections, thus phasing out the General has herself decided, except if the law or national hereditary principle, and security requires it, not to make key prosecution decisions b) provide for the resignation of peers and powers for their in individual criminal cases. Furthermore, the new protocol expulsion, suspension and disqualification in certain circumstances. makes it clear that the Attorney General will not be The Government are fully committed to comprehensive consulted in any case which concerns an MP or peer or reform of the Lords, based on four principles, all of where there is a personal or professional conflict of which were endorsed by the cross-party group (see interest, other than where her decision is required by White Paper, An Elected Second Chamber, July 2008, law. This protocol will be published by the Attorney Cm 7438): very shortly. Furthermore, the Attorney-General now only attends Cabinet when matters affecting her The primacy of the House of Commons, enshrined in the responsibilities are on the agenda. Parliament Acts, and in rules and convention; Given that it has been possible to make these reforms Independence of Members, supported by their serving a single, non-renewable term of three normal-length Parliaments, and, to the office of Attorney-General without legislation, as set out originally in the 2007 White Paper (The House of the Government have concluded that it is not necessary Lords: Reform, Cm 7027), by a system of election which to include legislative changes in respect of the Attorney- prevents a single party gaining an overall majority; General. Direct election, such that the second chamber has a democratic mandate underpinning its revising role, but one that is never as Parole Board a whole more up to date than that of the Commons; and Sensible transitional arrangements in respect of existing peers. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice There remain outstanding questions, which the (Bridget Prentice): Since its creation in 1968, the role of Government will seek to answer in final proposals after the Parole Board has changed significantly, from an the summer, with draft legislation for pre-legislative advisory body to a court-like decision-making body. 107WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 108WS

It has evolved in light of legislative changes, court Legal Aid Reform judgments and changing caseloads, but its functions, status and resources have not been systematically considered in light of these changes. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice I am today therefore announcing a consultation on (Bridget Prentice): My noble Friend, the Parliamentary options for the future of the Parole Board. The consultation Under-Secretary of State for Justice, Lord Bach, has period will last from 20 July 2009 until 20 November made the following written ministerial statement: 2009. The Legal Services Commission (LSC) is publishing today a response to its consultation, published in March 2009, on best Copies of the consultation paper have been placed in value tendering (BVT) of criminal defence services. The consultation the Libraries of both Houses, the Vote Office and the set out plans to pilot BVT in Greater Manchester and Avon and Printed Paper Office. They are also available at: Somerset and, subject to the outcome of the pilot tender process, www.justice.gov.uk.The Ministry’s website also gives to roll-out BVT more widely during 2010-12. details of how to respond to the consultation exercise. The consultation was clear that the introduction of BVT would bring significant change to the way in which criminal defence services in the police station and magistrates’ court are currently funded. However, BVT offers the potential to secure the long-term sustainability of criminal defence work by enabling Family Legal Aid legal aid providers to offer their services at a sustainable price that reflects the costs of provision in their local area. The proposals have been designed to secure best value for taxpayers’ money and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice provide opportunities for practitioners to undertake more work (Bridget Prentice): My noble Friend, the Parliamentary where they have the capacity to do so. Under-Secretary of State, Lord Bach, has made the The LSC intends to go ahead with the BVT pilot as planned, following written ministerial statement: with the tender process beginning in October 2009. However, the LSC has listened carefully to concerns raised by those responding The Government are committed to funding legal aid for family to the consultation and has been persuaded that there is a strong cases, and currently dedicate £582 million each year to family case for delaying the wider implementation of BVT until at least legal aid. In real terms, in the last seven years expenditure on 2013 to enable a full evaluation of the impact in the two pilot family representation has increased by 25 per cent. while the areas. number of people helped has dropped by 11 per cent. For this The consultation response also details the final BVT model to reason, we have been working to re-design the system to get the be implemented in the pilot areas including the adjustments that best value for the tax payer and to ensure that our priority of have been made as a result of the consultation. In particular, the protecting and helping vulnerable children is met. LSC intends to implement a more flexible, localised approach to On 17 December 2008, Official Report, column 120WS, I maximum market share in response to concerns raised by respondents. announced a consultation paper, “Family Legal Aid Funding It also intends to allow firms to undertake a small amount of from 2010”, published by the Ministry of Justice (MoJ) and the police station work outside the area in which they have won a Legal Services Commission (LSC) which set out proposals for contract so that they can continue relationships with established legal aid payments for family work to apply from 2010. The clients. consultation closed on 3 April 2009, following an extension of the Copies of “Best Value Tendering for CDS Contracts 2010: A original closing date of 18 March, which was granted following Response to Consultation” will be placed in the Libraries of both requests from representative bodies. Houses, the Vote Office and the Printed Paper Office. The document The consultation paper focused on two new payment schemes: can be downloaded from the consultation section of the LSC’s The Private Law Representation Scheme, which will bring all website at: www.legalservices.gov.uk. private family work (excluding advocacy) within a standard fee regime. The Family Advocacy scheme, which creates a single graduated NORTHERN IRELAND fee scheme covering payments to both solicitor advocates and barristers for public and private family law cases. There is a significant overlap between what solicitors and Boundary Commission for Northern Ireland barristers do, and this consultation proposed that barrister and solicitor advocates would receive the same fees for the same advocacy work and most respondents agreed with this principle. The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Shaun I remain convinced that it is right to proceed with a harmonised Woodward): I have today placed a copy of the Boundary family advocacy scheme and intend to do so. Commission’s annual report for the period 2008-2009 Since the formal consultation ended, the Legal Services Commission in the Libraries of both Houses. Copies are also has had a substantial amount of constructive engagement with available on the Boundary Commission website at: stakeholders. They have provided a considerable amount of detailed www.boundarycommission.org.uk. advice on how to improve the structure of both the advocacy and representation schemes—primarily to recognise complexity in cases. Our original proposals have been substantially revised to reflect OLYMPICS many of their suggestions. This has required a considerable amount of reworking of the assumptions that underpin the modelling of the fee schemes. I have concluded that in order to Government Olympic Executive Quarterly Economic ensure that those models are as accurate as possible, further Report analysis is required before we publish the final fee schemes. My officials and the Legal Service Commission will be working on the fee schemes over the summer. They will be finalised and The Minister for the Olympics, (Tessa Jowell): Iam announced in time for the September bid round for new civil publishing today the Government Olympic Executive’s contracts in April 2010. quarterly economic report, “London 2012 Olympic and 109WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JULY 2009 Written Ministerial Statements 110WS

Paralympic Games Quarterly Economic Report July WORK AND PENSIONS 2009”. This report explains the latest budget position as at 30 June 2009, and outlines some of the many wider economic benefits to the UK. The Olympic project remains on time and within Workers Memorial Day (Consultation) budget. The overall £9.325 billion public sector funding package for the London 2012 games remains unchanged and the anticipated final cost of the Olympic Delivery The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Yvette Authority’s (ODA) programme is the same as it was at Cooper): On 27 July my Department will publish a the end of March 2009 at £7.234 billion. Command Paper on workers memorial day. On the eve of our three years to go celebrations, the ODA continue to make good progress on the Olympic park, recently announcing that they had hit all of their Discretionary Social Fund ten milestones. Good progress is being made on all of the principal venues and on 16 July the ODA announced that the outer shell roof structure of the Olympic stadium The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work had been completed just 14 months after construction and Pensions (Helen Goodman): The Secretary of State’s started. changes to the discretionary social fund, which took The report also confirms that the London 2012 games effect in the south-west region from 27 April 2009 and are providing business and employment opportunities the east midlands region from 8 June 2009, will be around the UK in challenging times. There are now partially extended to Glasgow from 27 July 2009. over 4,000 workers on site. Of these, 10 per cent. were The changes introduce a requirement for most customers previously unemployed. To date £3.5 billion worth of to be interviewed at a local Jobcentre Plus office when contracts have been directly awarded by the ODA, 98 they make a third or subsequent application for a crisis per cent. of these to UK companies. loan to cover living expenses. I would like to commend this report to the members During such an interview customers will be provided of both Houses and thank them for their continued with a leaflet that contains details of local and national interest and support of the London 2012 games. organisations that can provide money management advice. Copies of the quarterly economic report July 2009 The leaflet has been placed in the Libraries of both are available at www.culture.gov.uk and will be deposited Houses of Parliament and copies are also available in in the Libraries of both Houses. the Vote Office. 715W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 716W

and is working with the Mayor of London and relevant Written Answers to local authorities with a view to consulting on the application for nitrogen dioxide early in 2010. Applications need to Questions set out the measures that will be taken to meet the limit values by the extended deadlines. The additional time will allow current and planned measures to take effect. Monday 20 July 2009 EU target values for polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons do not come into force until 2012. In 2008 all monitoring sites at roadside locations exhibited concentrations of ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon below the target value. Measures to reduce emissions from traffic source will Agriculture: Subsidies continue to reduce concentrations at urban sites. More widely, Government are working to improve Mr. Liddell-Grainger: To ask the Secretary of State the regulation of biomass heating systems to ensure for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many their rollout minimises any negative impact on air quality. farmers did not receive Common Agricultural Policy subsidy payments because of inaccuracies in the maps of their land which they submitted to his Department Susan Kramer: To ask the Secretary of State for in the last two years. [284408] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what progress has been made on his Department’s request for a derogation Jim Fitzpatrick: The data required to provide the from EU air quality standards in respect of particulate number of farmers that did not receive CAP subsidy matter; and if he will make a statement. [287840] payments because of inaccuracies in the maps of their land is not held in a form that is easily accessible. The Jim Fitzpatrick: EU air quality limits are already met process to reconcile such information is resource intensive, across 99 per cent. of the UK (land area). For the very time consuming and would cost more than £750 to collate. small parts of the UK where limit values are not yet met, roadside locations present the greatest challenge. Mr. Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for The UK, like most other member states, is using the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how the new set provisions under Directive 2008/50/EC to secure additional of maps issued by the Rural Payments Agency in time from the European Commission to meet the limit connection with claims for payment under the single values for particulate matter (PM ). payment scheme will seek to prevent claims being 10 submitted by more than one farmer per field. [286069] In April, following public consultation, the UK Government submitted a notification to the Commission Jim Fitzpatrick: Single Payment Scheme (SPS) applicants applying for the additional time available for eight areas can only claim for land at their disposal for the relevant across the UK. These are areas where at some point scheme year. Instances where the same field is being since 2005 exceedences of the PM10 limit values have claimed by more than one farmer are identified and been reported to the Commission. resolved through the SPS claim validation process. Additional information was submitted to the The rural land register mapping update exercise will Commission at the beginning of July in response to a increase the accuracy of the map data used to validate request from them following their initial examination of these claims for payment. the application. The Commission has indicated that it will conclude its examination in the autumn. Air Pollution The UK application is available on the DEFRA Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for website at: Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps his www.defra.gov.uk/environment/airquality/eu-int/eu-directives/ Department is taking to reduce levels of (a) particulate airqual-directives/notification.htm matter, (b) nitrogen dioxide and (c) polycyclic aromatic The additional information provided to the Commission hydrocarbons adjacent to main roads to within the shall be available on the website shortly. limits prescribed in EU legislation. [285514]

Jim Fitzpatrick [holding answer 9 July 2009]: EU air Animals: Exports quality limits are already met across 99 per cent. of the UK (land area). For the very small parts of the country where limit values are not yet met, including London, Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, roadside locations present the greatest challenge. The Food and Rural Affairs what recent progress has been UK, like most other member states is using the provisions made in reducing levels of live animal exports. [288011] in EU legislation to secure from the European Commission additional time to meet the limit values for both particulate matter and nitrogen dioxide. If successful these would Jim Fitzpatrick: The export of live animals is a lawful extend the compliance deadlines to 2011 for particulate trade and to restrict it would be contrary to free trade matter and to 2015 for nitrogen dioxide. rules. Such trade must, though, adhere to the standards The Government submitted in April their application set out in health and welfare rules. for particulate matter: The Government would prefer a trade in meat to the http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/airquality/euint/ long distance transport of live animals to slaughter, eudirectives/airqualdirectives/notification.htm whether in the UK, or across borders. 717W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 718W

Batteries: Recycling Bovine Tuberculosis: Devon

Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Streeter: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans he Government is taking to increase rates of battery has for the introduction of practical steps to reduce recycling to meet the requirements of the EU Batteries levels of bovine tuberculosis in Devon; and what the Directive. [288709] timescale is of those plans. [287782] Dan Norris: The Government have introduced new Jim Fitzpatrick: This Government remain committed UK regulations to transpose the EU’s batteries directive. to working with industry to monitor and enhance TB The regulations make battery producers responsible for control measures. Most recently, the TB Eradication collecting, treating and recycling waste batteries. Group was set up in November 2008 to make Most industrial and automotive batteries are already recommendations to the Secretary of State for developing recycled. The regulations seek to ensure that this will a plan for reducing bovine TB in all parts of England, continue. However, few portable batteries are currently including Devon, with the ultimate objective of moving recycled. The new regulations require portable battery towards eventual eradication. producers to join a Battery Compliance Scheme. The schemes will be responsible for increasing battery collection We are also actively pursuing the future use of vaccination rates. DEFRA and the schemes will also carry out of cattle and wildlife, through vaccine research, and the publicity activities to encourage consumers to recycle Badger Vaccine Deployment Project (BVDP), alongside their batteries. From February 2010, most shops selling our current control measures. Two of the areas for the household batteries will collect waste batteries from BVDP are in Devon and the aim is that the vaccination consumers. of badgers will commence in summer 2010 and take place for at least five years in each area. Batteries: Waste Disposal Bovine Tuberculosis: East of England Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for assessment he has made of the environmental effects of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many farms the disposal of batteries. [286359] in (a) Essex and (b) the East of England were under bovine tuberculosis restrictions on the latest date for Dan Norris: The Department for Business, Enterprise which figures are available. [288111] and Regulatory Reform published an impact assessment on the Waste Batteries and Accumulators Regulations Jim Fitzpatrick: DEFRA cannot provide the information 2009 (SI No. 890/2009) in May. This covers environmental in the format requested. DEFRA collects data on the effects and can be found at: number of herds under restriction because TB measures http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2009/em/uksiem_20090890_en.pdf apply to a herd and not a farm. We can provide the latest data from Vetnet (1 June) Beef: Imports which shows that the number of herds under bovine TB restrictions on 31 March 2009 was (a) 19 herds in Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Essex, and (b) 636 herds in the East of England region. Food and Rural Affairs if he will estimate the volume of Note: Brazilian beef imported into the UK which was raised Data downloaded from the Vetnet system is provisional and in illegally deforested areas in the latest period for subject to change as more data becomes available. which figures are available; and if he will make a statement. [285558] Bovine Tuberculosis: Vaccination Jim Fitzpatrick: We do not hold figures on the volume of Brazilian beef imported into the UK which would Mr. Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for link across to deforestation. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many For animal health purposes, Brazil is split into ‘safe’ vaccinations of each badger will be required under the and ‘unsafe’ disease regions, to prevent the arrival of new Badger Vaccine Deployment Programme. [287212] disease into either the UK or EU. The meat imported to the EU must be accompanied by appropriate animal Jim Fitzpatrick: Badgers only need to be vaccinated and public health certification and must come from EU with BCG once to confer a protective effect on an approved plants in the exporting country (in this case individual badger. However, it is unnecessary to vaccinate Brazil). every individual, although the more badgers vaccinated Any illegal imports of Brazilian meat would be seized, the better overall. destroyed or re-exported. We do not know how long the protection lasts but an We are working hard internationally, including under annual vaccination campaign is consistent with published the UNFCCC to find ways of helping developing countries results that BCG protection lasts at least one year in to address deforestation. The approach aims to provide animals. Safety data from the Badger Vaccine Study incentives to reduce deforestation through reflecting the (BVS) on repeated annual vaccinations will be reported real value of forests, including their role in reducing in the final report of the BVS which is expected in emissions. March 2010. 719W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 720W

Mr. Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for exploratory analysis of routinely collected cattle disease Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how long the data will be carried out at the end of the project and temporary tag on badgers as part of the Badger independent expert statistical advice has been taken to Vaccine Deployment Programme will last. [287213] ensure the project design gives a good chance of detecting any changes in cattle TB trends that may be associated Jim Fitzpatrick: The temporary marks on vaccinated with vaccination. We expect landowner participation in badgers will last for at least several weeks, depending on the project to be at least 70 per cent. within the 300km2 weather conditions. This is so a marked badger re-trapped catchment areas, which will enable us to reach our in any given trapping session can be released without 100km2 target in each area. Social science research further vaccination. There is no need for long-term looking at changes in farmers’ attitudes to vaccination marking as there is no detrimental effect if a badger is and factors that influence farmer behaviour can provide injected again in subsequent years. meaningful results on a smaller scale. The project design has also been discussed and agreed with the TB Science Mr. Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Advisory Body, along with two of its subgroups dealing Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the specifically with TB vaccines and economics and social timetable is of the Badger Vaccine Deployment science, key farming and veterinary stakeholders and Programme. [287214] the TB Eradication Group for England.

Jim Fitzpatrick: DEFRA has recently had a series of Mr. Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for meetings with key regional representatives and local Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what steps veterinary practices in each of the proposed deployment will be taken to prevent unvaccinated badgers entering areas. The next step is speaking with farmers in these Badger Vaccine Deployment Programme areas; areas, followed by signing-up participants and training [287216] contractors, which will begin during the autumn. (2) whether all badgers will be treated as part of the Sign-up will be in phases to allow capacity to be built Badger Vaccine Deployment Programme. [287217] up and early lessons to be implemented. Therefore, during 2010, vaccination will be carried out in a lead demonstration area, where contractors will be trained, Jim Fitzpatrick: All trapped badgers will be vaccinated. and 20 per cent. (20 km2) of the other five areas. The It is not necessary to trap and vaccinate every individual project will be fully rolled out, in all the areas, by the in a population or to prevent the entry of unvaccinated third year (i.e. all areas will have been vaccinated by ones to control a disease. This is because as the proportion 2012). Once this initial phase has been completed of immunised individuals increases, the risk to all vaccination across 100 per cent. of the areas will continue individuals, whether vaccinated or not, decreases. The each year and each area will be vaccinated for at least stable social structure of undisturbed badger populations, five years. where there is little mixing of individuals between social groups, lends itself to the generation of this ‘herd Mr. Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for immunity’ through vaccination. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what mechanisms will be used to assess the effectiveness of Mr. Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for the Badger Vaccine Deployment Programme; [287215] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the (2) what estimate has been made of the proportion estimated cost is of the Badger Vaccine Deployment of farmers and landowners needed to participate in the Programme. [287218] Badger Vaccine Deployment Programme for the results of the programme to be scientifically meaningful. Jim Fitzpatrick: The final business case for the badger [287220] vaccine deployment project is still being developed, and cost estimates will be subject to change to reflect, for Jim Fitzpatrick: The Badger Vaccine Deployment example, the costs of contractors bidding for the work Project aims to increase farmer confidence in TB vaccines and the final costs for purchasing the vaccine. We do and develop practical know-how for vaccinating badgers, not propose to release cost estimates until these are including how best to deploy vaccines in an area and more certain. developing an understanding of training needs and costs. To this end, we will be monitoring levels of take up among farmers and contractors, and training will be Mr. Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for assessed and monitored throughout the project. We will Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many also build up an understanding of the costs of injectable people will be employed on the Badger Vaccine badger vaccination. This information will inform plans Deployment Programme. [287219] for future use of both injectable and oral badger vaccines for bovine TB. Possible further measures of success are Jim Fitzpatrick: We do not know at this stage exactly currently being considered. how many people will be employed on the Badger The Badger Vaccine Deployment Project is not a Vaccine Deployment Project. However, we do know scientific trial, but a practical project to develop know that it takes 10 people (five teams of two) to vaccinate a how for vaccinating badgers. The project will target 100 km2 area in one trapping season. The Food and cattle farming areas of up to 100km2 (25,000 acres) in Environment Research Agency (Fera), which already each of the six high incidence TB areas for five years has a number of trained staff, will vaccinate badgers in vaccination. While the project will be unable to demonstrate the training area and will train contractors who will a treatment effect of the vaccine in cattle herds, an work in the remaining five areas. 721W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 722W

Dairy Farmers of Britain: Insolvency Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what categories Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for of personal information on members of the public will Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will bring be held on each of his Department’s and its agency’s forward proposals to expedite single farm payments to databases expected to become operational in the next farmers affected by the taking into receivership of five years; what estimate he has made of the likely Dairy Farmers of Britain. [287821] number of individuals’ details each such database will hold when fully operational; and if he will make a Jim Fitzpatrick: Recently agreed EU legislation provides statement. [286496] the possibility for member states to make 70 per cent. advance payments under the 2009 single payment scheme Dan Norris: Information about the categories of personal (SPS) from 16 October where full scheme controls have information on members of the public that will be held been completed. on each of the Department’s and its agency’s databases expected to become operational in the next five years We have always said that we would consider the case and estimates of the likely number of individual’s details for advance payments on the basis of an assessment by that each dataset will hold when fully operational can the Rural Payments Agency (RPA) on what consequential be provided only at disproportionate cost. impacts would be, including on the timetable of full payments for all claimants. We have yet to take a final Routine assurance of database developments during decision, but DEFRA have spoken to the chief executive the business planning cycle ensures that any planned on the issue and it is clear that there would be a real risk databases containing personal information are identified that making advances would affect the RPA’s ability to before development commences and referred to the match last year’s performance in making nearly £1 billion departmental data protection team to ensure that they of full SPS payments in December. adhere to the Data Protection Act. Whatever the final decision reached on advances, the Moreover, following the publication of the cross RPA will continue to address any cases of individual government data handling review in June 2008, staff hardship as sympathetically as possible. establishing new projects and programmes that hold significant amounts of personal data are obliged to conduct privacy impact assessments. Departmental Data Protection Departmental Work Experience Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many (a) Mr. Willis: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, attempts and (b) successful attempts were made to Food and Rural Affairs how many interns work in his gain unauthorised access to each (i) database and (ii) Department; what terms of reference apply to their ICT system run by his Department in each of the last appointment; what remuneration they receive; and how five years; and if he will make a statement. [286546] long on average an intern appointment lasts. [286822]

Dan Norris: It is not in the interests of the UK’s Dan Norris: Five graduate internships commenced national security for Departments to confirm information placements with DEFRA on 6 July 2009, three via the on the number of attempts, successful or otherwise, to Cabinet Office Summer Development programme (ethnic gain unauthorised access to departmental systems or minorities) and two from the summer placement scheme databases. Such disclosure could undermine the integrity (disability). All interns are engaged on a paid basis at and security of departmental systems and thereby expose civil service EO level salaries. them to potential threats. These internships consist of a minimum of 12 weeks’ DEFRA complies with the mandatory requirements work placement, extendable as required. of the Security Policy Framework in relation to information security including managing the risk of unauthorised The type of work offered to interns will, for example, access to ICT systems. range from a time-limited project to a more varied programme of work. The aim of such internships is to help internees develop their levels of skill and practical Departmental Databases experience, and to increase their employability.

Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Disease Control Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what information databases his Department (a) maintains and (b) uses Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for which do not contain personal information. [284398] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will take steps to encourage the veterinary profession to work Dan Norris: DEFRA maintains and uses a wide more closely with the medical profession on matters range of databases reflecting its diverse policy and relating to the transmission of diseases between regulatory functions. A full list could be provided only humans and animals; and if he will make a statement. at disproportionate cost to the Department. [288963] However, DEFRA’s Information Asset register does provide details of many of the databases managed by Jim Fitzpatrick: DEFRA are fully aware of the need the Department. This register is available on the for close collaboration between the veterinary and medical Department’s website at: profession in preventing and controlling transmission http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/opengov/defra/available/ of diseases between humans and animals. Officials continue iar/index.htm to collaborate with their counterparts in the Department 723W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 724W of Health, the Health Protection Agency and the devolved make an estimate of the unit cost to a local authority of Administrations regular inter-departmental meetings the provision of wheeled refuse containers for the are held to assess the risk from diseases, as well as from collection of household waste. [286529] newly emerging conditions, which might have the potential for inter-species transmission. There is also strong Dan Norris: It is not feasible to make an estimate of collaboration at the local level where joint assessments the unit cost to a local authority of the provision of and co-ordinated veterinary and medical investigations wheelie bins. This will depend on a number of factors of disease outbreaks are made. including which company the local authority procures the bins from and the number of bins ordered. Domestic Appliances: Carbon Emissions Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he answer to Lord Taylor of Holbeach of 2 July 2009, has made of the annual level of carbon dioxide Official Report, House of Lords, column WA94, on emissions resulting from electrical appliances being left waste management: refuse collection, what proportion in standby mode. [287896] of dwellings used wheeled refuse containers for the collection of residual waste in each year for which Dan Norris: The most recent analysis of the energy figures are available. [286812] consumption of equipment in households and commercial properties was undertaken by DEFRA’s Market Dan Norris: The following table shows the percentage Transformation Programme (MTP) in 2006. This estimated of dwellings in England that have been issued with that the level of carbon emissions resulting from all the wheeled refuse containers by local authorities for the appliances most commonly found in UK homes was at collection of residual (black bag) waste from 2000-01 to least 7.2 TWh equal to 2.1 per cent. of UK electricity 2007-08. consumption or 0.8 million tonnes of carbon. The Data for 2004-05 is unavailable. This is due to partial MTP is in the process of updating this information for submission of data by local authorities. 2008. Percentage of dwellings using wheeled refuse containers for residual The report, ‘Estimated UK Standby Electricity waste Consumption in 2006 (V2.0) (BNXS36)’, can be found Percentage on the MTP website. 2007-08 63.64 Domestic Waste 2006-07 61.06 2005-06 57.51 Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for 2004-05 n/a Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he 2003-04 58.00 has made of the tonnage of (a) aluminium, (b) wood, 2002-03 55.00 (c) paper, (d) green waste, (e) glass, (f) steel and (g) 2001-02 52.00 textiles in the municipal waste stream in each year since 2000-01 51.00 1997; and how much of each he estimates was (i) n/a = Not available. recycled, (ii) landfilled and (iii) sent to energy from Source: waste facilities (A) in total and (B) in each local WasteDataFlow and DEFRA’s Municipal Waste Management Survey. authority area in each such year. [286469] Environment Agency: Consultants

Dan Norris: DEFRA hold tonnages of municipal Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for waste sent for recycling in 2005-06, 2006-07 and 2007-08, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much the broken down into material types. Data on waste sent to Environment Agency spent on consultants in each of landfill or for energy recovery is not broken down into the last five years. [283736] material types, but the totals are available. All this data are available at local authority level and will be placed Jim Fitzpatrick: The Environment Agency delivers in the Library shortly. major investment programmes through flood risk and Municipal waste management statistics back to 1995-96 civil engineering work. Expenditure includes the feasibility, are available at national level on DEFRA’s website. design and supervision of these projects which are Source: developed through accessing specialist engineering WasteDataFlow and DEFRA’s Municipal Waste Management companies. Survey. The following table shows total Environment Agency expenditure on consultants in each of the last five years. Domestic Waste: Waste Disposal This expenditure includes regional and national civil engineering consultants, water management engineering Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State consultants, environmental policy consultants and for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will management consultants.

£ 2004-05 20005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Regional civil engineering/ 29,083,263.68 25,391,089.61 27,890,749.09 21,012,252.52 27,757,651.67 environmental consultancy 725W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 726W

£ 2004-05 20005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

NCPMS civil engineering/ 42,162,089.61 36,131,701.10 35,326,920.35 27,134,018.64 41,946,590.04 environmental consultancy Water management engineering/ 17,240,988.37 17,019,970.91 17,932,634.73 17,011,410.63 18,944,069.07 environmental consultancy Environmental policy consultants 29,619,337.66 22,086,207.51 25,112,247.92 31,655,315.86 30,121,357.01 Management consultants 5,228,346.70 6,006,599.05 4,174,035.10 3,413,657.41 3,306,945.63 Total 123,334,026.02 106,635,568.18 110,436,587.19 100,226,655.06 122,076,613.42

EU Law Huw Irranca-Davies: Sea Fisheries Committees do not generally prosecute fishing quota offences. Therefore, Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for DEFRA does not record data on prosecutions for breaches Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he of fishing quota regulations by sea fishery committee has made of the cost to his Department of the area. statutory obligations upon it provided for in legislation Flood Control: Finance introduced as a consequence of obligations arising from EU legislation in the most recent 12 months for Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for which figures are available. [283476] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment he has made of the likely effect of the additional Dan Norris: It is very difficult to provide precise £25 million in capital funding for flood defences figures for the proportion of UK legislation that stems brought forward from 2010-11 to 2009-10 and 2008-09 from the European Union. on (a) the number of homes receiving earlier flood The administrative burdens measurement exercise carried protection and (b) improvements to British Waterways out by the Government in 2006 put the proportion of network infrastructure; and how much of the funding administrative burdens stemming from the EU at has been spent in each month since it was announced. approximately one third of the total administrative [286651] burden. The important thing is not the origins of a legislation, Huw Irranca-Davies: In 2008-09, £5.1 million of funding which could of course be a devolved administration or for flood and coastal risk management was brought a local authority, as well as the Government or the EU, forward from 2009-10. In 2009-10, £20 million of funding but the quality of the regulation. All regulations, irrespective was brought forward from 2010-11 as part of the fiscal of their origins, should comply with the principles of stimulation package announced in the 2009 pre-Budget better regulation. Regulations should be risk based, report to provide early protection for 27,000 homes. proportionate and well designed, so as to achieve their The Environment Agency forecasts full spend of its objectives while also keeping costs to a minimum. The £349.4 million capital budget (not including funding for Government continue to work with European partners implementing the recommendations of the Pitt Review) to ensure that EU regulations meet these standards. for 2009-10. At the end of May 2009 it had spent £44 million. Farmers: Loans As part of the fiscal stimulation package, £5 million of funding for British Waterways was brought forward Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for from 2010-11 to 2009-10 to be spent on infrastructure Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent projects. This will take place as part of the major works representations he has received on levels of bank programme which is concentrated during winter months lending to farmers; and if he will make a statement. when the waterways are not highly used. [285138] Heating: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Jim Fitzpatrick: No recent formal representations have been received on the subject of bank lending to Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for farmers. At the end of March 2009, net lending to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will estimate agriculture, forestry and hunting in the UK stood at just the amount of greenhouse gas emissions arising from below £11 billion. This was more than £900 million the use of patio heaters in the UK in (a) each year since higher than at the same point in 2008 and some £280 2000 and (b) each of the next five years. [288430] million above the level recorded at the end of 2008. There is strong evidence that the banking sector is Dan Norris: DEFRA does not hold the specific estimates continuing to lend to farm businesses with sound business requested. The most recent data available which can be cases but DEFRA will continue to monitor the situation. used to estimate the carbon emissions of outdoor patio heaters are from 2007. Fisheries: Prosecutions In spring 2007, the Government’s Market Transformation Programme (MTP) produced a briefing note (BNDH18) Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for intended to estimate the CO2 emissions as a result of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many the use of patio heaters. This note estimated that ‘outdoor prosecutions for breaches of fishing quota regulations heaters’ (both domestic and non-domestic) accounted have been brought in each sea fishery committee area for around 94.9 GWh of energy being consumed annually, in each of the last five years. [288207] equivalent to 22.2 ktCO2 (thousand tonnes of CO2). 727W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 728W

In October 2007, the MTP updated the assumptions year until 2020; and what the combined area of those in the original study to estimate CO2 emissions from sites is. [286353] patio heaters as a result of the smoking ban. The report estimated that the annual emissions from patio heaters Dan Norris: The Environment Agency does not require as a result of the smoking ban would be between 96 and landfill operators to specify in what year they will close their site. This depends on the rate of infilling, among 282 kt CO2, depending on the type of heaters and how they were used. other factors. As such I am unable to provide a prediction of the number of sites that will close year on year in the The MTP estimates are not derived from surveys or period 2009-20. detailed research, and should not be interpreted as accurate data on energy consumption and carbon emissions. Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for I am unable to give a prediction of future emissions as Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many we have no way to estimate future sales of patio heaters. landfill sites there were in each region of England in The MTP’s Briefing Note ‘BNDH18: Outdoor Heating each year since 1997; and what the combined area of for Comfort’ is available at: the sites was in each of those years. [286354] www.mtprog.com Dan Norris: The Environment Agency has published the number of permitted operational landfill sites for Landfill the period 2005 to 2007 on its website. Prior to 2005, data on the number of landfill sites was included in the Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment Agency’s ‘Strategic Waste Management Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many Information for England and Wales’. The following landfill sites in each region are expected to close in each table provides a summary of the published data.

1998-99 2002-03 2004-05 2005 2006 2007 Region WML WML WML PPC WML PPC WML PPC PPC

East of England — — 275 116 162 51 201 65 62 East Midlands — — 275 127 131 50 208 55 65 London — — 43 10 12 6 30 5 7 North East — — 371 46 95 21 120 26 28 North West — — 306 88 174 30 219 38 52 South East — — 435 158 172 60 293 59 83 South West — — 400 137 220 35 263 46 57 Wales — 162 n/a 66 73 25 160 29 34 West Midlands — — 269 60 131 24 164 30 43 Yorkshire and Humberside — — 520 201’ 245 38 307 43 70 England and Wales 1,485 2,151 2,894 1,009 1,415 340 1,965 396 501 Note: WML is an abbreviation for “Waste Management Licence” and PPC for “Pollution Prevention and Control”.

In 1997 all landfill sites required a WML. From 2001 waste was sent to landfill sites in each region in each to 2007 all site operators had to apply for a PPC permit, year since 1997. [286355] replacing the WML. Dan Norris: The following tables show the amount of The number of permitted landfill sites for 2008 is hazardous waste sent to landfill in each year where currently being validated and should be published in accurate information is available. the autumn of 2009. A new hazardous waste management system and We do not hold information on the combined area of database was introduced in July 2005 to coincide with landfill sites. the introduction of the new Hazardous Waste (England and Wales) Regulations 2005. Changes in the way hazardous waste was classified and how data was collected caused Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for inconstancies in data for 2005 and it was therefore not Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much hazardous published.

Tonnes hazardous waste land filled by region East Midlands East of England London North East North West South East

1998-99 198,620.02 — 17,567.05 126,745.13 269,888.51 250,708.77 2000 140,493.62 487,629.71 29,463.20 113,682.67 324,279.74 245,221.40 2001 216,198.35 614,982.91 55,484.53 140,831.32 205,831.18 333,314.33 2002 150,701.20 582,250.52 20,509.22 79,381.46 255,360.38 193,601.90 2003 269,808.57 282,875.62 4,049.57 84,253.59 256,779.55 148,236.32 2004 433,513.61 278,377.14 83.83 104,371.63 392,307.95 192,220.67 2005 No data No data No data No data No data No data 2006 125,811.23 65,719.19 40,826.66 195,970.24 101,404.25 54,709.71 2007 154,949.14 68,877.55 50,071.87 132,187.43 116,644.22 62,800.07 729W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 730W

South West Wales West Midlands Yorkshire and the Humber Total

1998-99 139,349.15 232,640.53 199,007.60 264,624.02 1,699,150.77 2000 128,977.11 134,590.44 161,892.50 274,992.14 2,041,222.53 2001 149,144.82 146,453.40 174,295.26 270,436.48 2,306,972.58 2002 165,283.90 85,611.96 206,433.08 247,253.50 1,986,387.12 2003 138,142.55 106,998.17 285,770.95 223,990.37 1,800,905.26 2004 118,783.68 230,123.31 228,686.41 315,701.47 2,294,169.70 2005 No data No data No data No data 0.00 2006 136,283.01 3,009.38 42,561.23 107,604.78 873,899.69 2007 133,247.32 662.85 54,074.70 75,706.63 849,221.79 Source: Environment Agency

In 1997 all landfill sites required a WML. From 2001 for trade with mainland Europe. As a result care should to 2007 all site operators had to apply for a PPC permit, be taken not to read too much into the year to year replacing the WML. changes shown. The number of permitted landfill sites for 2008 is Table 1: GB exports of live bovine, 2006-08 currently being validated and should be published in Number the autumn of 2009. Type 2006 2007 2008

We do not hold information on the combined area of Live cattle and calves 89,567 85,487 51,809 landfill sites. Note: 2008 data is subject to amendments. Source: GB Cattle Tracing Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for System Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to which (a) Table 2: UK exports of live sheep, goats and poultry, 2006-08 organisations and (b) purposes revenue from fines due Number to breaches in landfill targets will be allocated. [287430] Type 2006 2007 2008 Live sheep and 12,915 1,078 44,992 Dan Norris: The Waste and Emissions Trading (WET) lambs Act provides for a fine to be imposed on a Waste Live goats 528 1—435 Disposal Authority for each additional tonne of Live poultry 29,381,150 31,680,332 28,567,760 biodegradable municipal waste that it sends to landfill 1 There were no recorded exports of live goats in 2007. Exports may above the number of allowances the authority holds still have occurred by traders operating below the VAT threshold and under the Landfill Allowance Trading Scheme in a therefore will not have been declared in the HMRC official statistics. Note: particular scheme year. 2008 data is subject to amendments. During the passage of the WET Act through Parliament, Source: there was discussion about the destination of penalties. H M Revenue and Customs. Data prepared by Trade statistics, ESP, It was agreed that funds raised from penalties would be DEFRA. returned to all local authorities, including Waste Collection Marine and Fisheries Agency: Location Authorities, but would not be ring fenced to waste management options. It would therefore be for a local Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, authority to decide for what purpose any returned Food and Rural Affairs if he will (a) undertake and (b) funds were used. publish an equality impact assessment of the relocation of Marine and Fisheries Agency staff out of London. Livestock: Exports [288015] Huw Irranca-Davies: DEFRA officials are currently Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for finalising an Equality Impact Assessment (EqIA) on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many (a) the relocation of the Marine and Fisheries Agency’s cattle, (b) sheep, (c) goats and (d) poultry were (MFA) HQ office out of London to Tyneside. This will exported in each of the last three years. [284943] incorporate the impact of the relocation on MFA staff based outside the London HQ office. A copy of the Jim Fitzpatrick: Table 1 gives information on exports EqIA will be published when completed. in cattle from Great Britain and is taken from the GB Marine Management Organisation Cattle Tracing System. The Cattle Tracing System is updated on a daily basis and hence these figures can be subject to amendments. Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what his most Table 2 gives the number of live sheep, goats and recent assessment is of the cost to the public purse of poultry recorded as exported from the UK in 2006, the establishment of the headquarters of the Marine 2007 and 2008 as in HMRC official overseas trade Management Organisation. [287431] statistics. Please note these figures are obtained using VAT Huw Irranca-Davies: The indicative one-off establishment records and will exclude some EU trade for businesses costs of the Marine Management Organisation (MMO), which are below the VAT threshold. As a result, actual as shown in the impact assessment accompanying the trade levels may be higher than those given, particularly Marine and Coastal Access Bill, are £2.9 million. 731W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 732W

Marine Management Organisation: Intellectual of concern to Great Britain and the United Kingdom. Property Alongside this, the UK is supporting the European Commission in developing its thinking on proposals for Mr. Hancock: Toask the Secretary of State for Environment, an effective EU Strategy on Invasive Alien Species. Food and Rural Affairs if he will assess the effects on the intellectual property rights of members of staff of the Nitrogen Oxides Marine Management Organisation (MMO) their change in status as a result of the creation of that organisation; Susan Kramer: To ask the Secretary of State for and whether those staff are to be permitted to publish in Environment, Food and Rural Affairs at which locations their own name work produced for the MMO. [288000] in England levels of nitrogen oxide (a) exceed 40 micro gm-3 nitrogen oxide annually and (b) exceed 200 micro Huw Irranca-Davies: When vested, the Marine gm-3 nitrogen oxide hourly more than 18 times per year. Management Organisation (MMO) will, as any other [288258] employer, have the benefits of any work produced by their employees. Employees will not be able to publish Jim Fitzpatrick: Under EU legislation, the UK is works produced for the MMO without the organisation’s required to assess ambient air for levels of nitrogen permission. dioxide (NO2), and to report to the European Commission Former employees of the Marine Fisheries Agency, on an annual basis. Detailed reports on the assessments or another Government Department, will transfer to are available from the Air Quality Archive at: the MMO with their existing terms and conditions of www.airquality.co.uk service—these give the Intellectual Property Rights to For the purpose of implementing EU legislation, the the employer. New MMO employees from elsewhere UK is divided up into 43 agglomeration zones (areas will be subject to similar restrictions under an MMO with a contiguous population of over 250,000 as specified contract of employment. by the air quality directives) and non-agglomeration zones. There are 28 agglomeration zones and 15 non- Nature Conservation agglomeration zones. There are a number of locations within England Mr. Benyon: To ask the Secretary of State for where: Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment (1) annual mean concentrations of nitrogen dioxide (NO )are he has made of the effectiveness of the Invasive 2 in excess of 40 microgrammes/m3; and/or Non-native Species Framework Strategy for Great (2) there are more than 18 occurrences of hourly mean NO Britain in tackling invasive species arriving from 2 >200 microgrammes/m3 in a year. countries which have no comparable strategies. [287595] The locations where points 1 and/or 2 apply have Huw Irranca-Davies: We have made no specific been identified are in the following tables, with reference assessment of this. However one of the ongoing actions to both monitored (measured) and modelled (predicted) set out in the implementation plan for the Non-Native NO2 data. Species Framework Strategy for Great Britain is to Monitoring data for 2008 are given in Table 1. The maintain contact with colleagues dealing with invasive modelling assessment for 2008 is not due to be completed non-native species policy issues in other European member until the end of the summer, so 2007 results are given in states and encourage consistent representation of issues Table 2.

Table 1: Nitrogen dioxide monitoring data, 2008—AURN sites in England

Annual mean NO2 Number hours NO2 Site name/location Site type (microgrammes/m3) > 200 microgrammes/m3

Liverpool Queen’s Drive Roadside 40 6 London Westminster Urban background 40 1 Cambridge Roadside Roadside 42 0 Newcastle Cradlewell Roadside 42 0 Manchester Piccadilly Urban centre 43 12 London Hillingdon Suburban 51 1 Oxford Centre Roadside Roadside 51 3 London Bloomsbury Urban centre 55 0 Bristol Old Market Roadside 62 5 Tower Hamlets Roadside 63 0 Bath Roadside Roadside 65 10 London Cromwell Road 2 Roadside 67 1 Bury Roadside Roadside 69 4 Camden Kerbside Kerbside 76 72 London Marylebone Road Kerbside 115 822

Table 2: Nitrogen dioxide modelled data—England, 2007 2 Area/km where annual mean NO2 3 Road length/km where annual mean NO2 > 40 microgrammes/m (urban background Zone/agglomeration >40 microgrammes/m3 (roadside locations) locations)

Greater London Urban Area 1,600 162 733W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 734W

Table 2: Nitrogen dioxide modelled data—England, 2007 2 Area/km where annual mean NO2 3 Road length/km where annual mean NO2 > 40 microgrammes/m (urban background Zone/agglomeration >40 microgrammes/m3 (roadside locations) locations)

West Midlands Urban Area 385 5 Greater Manchester Urban Area 426 — West Yorkshire Urban Area 162 — Tyneside 76 — Liverpool Urban Area 130 — Sheffield Urban Area 105 — Nottingham Urban Area 53 — Bristol Urban Area 42 — Brighton/Worthing/Littlehampton 7 — Leicester Urban Area 52 — Portsmouth Urban Area 24 — Teesside Urban Area 18 — The Potteries 34 — Bournemouth Urban Area 11 — Reading/Wokingham Urban Area 19 — Coventry/Bedworth 17 — Kingston upon Hull 32 — Southampton Urban Area 23 1 Birkenhead Urban Area 17 — Southend Urban Area 11 — Preston Urban Area 6— Eastern 131 6 South West 77 — South East 197 3 East Midlands 104 — North West and Merseyside 279 — Yorkshire and Humberside 260 — West Midlands 90 — North East 69 —

North Sea: Fishing Catches area (a) in each year since 1997 and (b) in 2009 to date; and how many of these incidents have resulted in Mr. Hayes: To ask the Secretary of State for prosecutions. [286299] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the answer of 22 January 2009, Official Report, column Jim Fitzpatrick: The following table shows the number 1590, on fishing catches, whether the Lithuanian and of reported incidents received by the Environment Agency Polish vessels referred to were entitled to fish in North since 1997. The Environment Agency’s National Incident Sea fishing grounds prior to their countries’ accession Recording System began to be used in 2001. It is not possible to access information broken down into each to the European Union. [287856] enumeration area prior to 2001 without incurring Huw Irranca-Davies: The catch statistics for Polish disproportionate cost. and Lithuanian landings from the North sea provided Number of oil pollution incidents in my answer of 22 January 2009, Official Report, (Category 1-4) column 1590, relate to landings in 2006. Both Poland and Lithuania joined the European Union in 2004 and 1997 5,542 therefore were members at that time. Access to North 1998 5,308 sea fish quota is determined by historic rights or else the 1999 5,381 countries in question would be required to swap in or 2000 6,215 purchase quota to access the fishery. 2001 5,684 The following table shows the number of reported Oil: Pollution incidents received by each Environment Agency region since 2002. This includes incidents from Category 1-4. Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for Category 1 incidents are the most serious, category 2 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many incidents are significant but less severe, category 3 are relatively of oil pollution have been reported in each enumeration minor and category 4 are unsubstantiated incidents.

Region 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 20091

Anglian 761 706 687 591 518 502 432 195 Midlands 1217 973 811 605 644 619 609 264 North East 466 520 518 476 347 338 308 161 North West 525 442 333 331 242 235 214 95 735W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 736W

Region 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 20091

Southern 552 539 452 389 361 313 292 125 South West 644 576 613 644 618 540 451 288 Thames 740 590 556 539 452 457 383 174 EA Wales 256 272 285 344 305 287 233 145 Total 5,161 4,618 4,255 3,919 3,487 3,291 2,922 1,447 1 January to June.

The following table shows the number of prosecutions will be considered. A warning is a written notification from oil pollution incidents since 2001. This information that, in the Environment Agency’s opinion, an offence has been provided by the Environment Agency’s National has been committed. It will be recorded and may be Enforcement Database in tandem with the information referred to in subsequent proceedings. above. On that basis information prior to 2001 is not available. There is a lag between incident and prosecution, which may well be in excess of 12 months depending on In cases where a prosecution is not the most appropriate the type of offence and its complexity. course of action, the alternatives of a caution or warning

2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 20091

Anglian300162440 Midlands 325485533 NorthEast0053864811 NorthWest103232410 South West 4344571091 Southern 100012202 Thames 005635830 Wales010203402 Total 12 6 22 22 34 32 41 28 19 1 To date.

Oil: Waste Disposal Two new pieces of European legislation governing the system for pesticides are likely to come into force in Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011; a, Regulation on pesticide authorisations that is Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proposals largely an updating of the existing European regime, his Department has for the disposal of residual waste and a directive on the sustainable use of pesticides that from energy production. [287410] will establish a framework to promote best practice in the storage, use and disposal of pesticides. Dan Norris: DEFRA has no plans affecting the disposal The Government plan to hold a public consultation of ash or other residual waste from power stations. This this autumn on a range of options for the implementation is the responsibility of the operators of such facilities. of this new legislation. Once we have agreed our approach to national legislation and guidance, we will revise the Origin Marking: Israel Code of Practice for Using Plant Protection Products. Pollution: Prosecutions Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for commission research into consumer attitudes in respect Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many incidents of country of origin labelling for goods imported into of diffuse pollution have been recorded in each year the UK from Israeli settlements in the occupied since 1997; and how many such incidents have resulted Palestinian territories. [287155] in (a) prosecutions and (b) fines for those convicted of such offences. [286464] Jim Fitzpatrick: The Government are not planning to commission research into consumer attitudes in respect Huw Irranca-Davies: The Environment Agency’s of labelling goods from the Occupied Palestinian Territories. National Incident Recording System (NIRS) records all pollution incidents reported to the Agency since 2001. Pesticides The Environment Agency does not classify such incidents as point or diffuse pollution. An approximation of the Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for number of “diffuse incidents” can be derived from Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when he next NIRS by counting incidents that arose from an unregulated plans to revise guidelines to farmers on the spraying of site where the cause was not identified. Data are available pesticides near schools and residences. [287819] and provided on this basis for full calendar years from 2001 until 2009. Dan Norris: The Code of Practice for Using Plant For prosecution and fines there is often a time lag Protection Products includes advice to farmers on spraying between the incident being reported and the completion pesticides near schools and residences. of any enforcement action. Yearly figures in this table 737W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 738W therefore may relate to incidents which occurred in the Huw Irranca-Davies: A reservoir capacity figure for previous year or earlier. This is why some prosecutions 1989 is unavailable. have been prosecuted and reported in 2009. The total capacity of reservoirs owned by water companies in England which fall under the Reservoirs Number of “Diffuse” Number of Act 1975 (large raised reservoirs with a capacity of 3 incidents prosecutions Fines (£) 25,000 m or more above natural ground level) was 1,855,244,628 m3 on 14 July 2009. 2001 3,233 9 28,850 2002 4,518 7 13,700 2003 3,866 7 19,225 River Thames: Pollution 2004 3,506 3 5,000 2005 3,360 8 28,033 2006 3,023 2 1,350 Susan Kramer: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007 2,686 3 6,000 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment 2008 2,379 10 24,250 has been made of the likely effects of the recent raw 2009 (to date) 0 6 7,750 sewage spillage in the Thames in the Mogden area on river usage and wildlife. [288784] Recycling Huw Irranca-Davies: The Environment Agency measured Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for the chemical quality of the river using a series of water Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proportion quality monitoring stations located at strategic points of waste collected in the City of York was recycled in along the estuary. Readings taken indicated a significant each year since 2003-04; what funding his Department decline in the oxygen saturation of the river. provided to City of York Council to increase recycling Environment Agency officers were deployed to assess rates in that period; and what recent steps his the extent of the incident by monitoring the river in the Department has taken to encourage local authorities to upper reaches to record the impact on fish at low water. increase waste recycling rates. [285866] Approximately 200 dead fish, mostly Flounder, were found around the Kew area. Other inspections did not Dan Norris: Recycling is strongly promoted by a identify notable amounts of dead fish. range of Government measures in recognition of its environmental benefits. This includes the introduction The monitoring network indicated the river returned of three National Indicators within the local government to a near normal condition by the afternoon of 5 July. performance framework to encourage local authorities to reduce waste, recycle more and send less household waste to landfill. This is in line with DEFRA’s belief Rivers: Pollution that local authorities are best placed to make decisions on the waste management strategy for their communities. Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for 85 per cent. of authorities have negotiated at least one Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what percentage waste-related national indicator target with the Government of significant non-water industrial discharges to rivers Office in their region. in each region was reviewed by the Environment DEFRA has provided the City of York council Agency in each year since 1997. [286463] £359,838.71 in 2008-09 and £361,122.65 for 2009-10 as part of Waste Infrastructure Capital Grant (WICG). Huw Irranca-Davies: This information is not readily This funding is provided to help authorities get waste available. It will be placed in the Library of the House management facilities on the ground in time to help as soon as possible. England meet landfill targets. The following table shows York City council’s municipal recycling rates from 2003-04 to 2007-08. 2004-05 is not Television: Energy available due to data not being submitted. York city council’s municipal recycling rate Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for Percentage Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he has made of daily energy consumption resulting from 2003-04 19.01 the use of standby units on televisions. [287897] 2004-05 1— 2005-06 25.71 2006-07 39.36 Dan Norris: The Government’s Market Transformation 2007-08 42.28 Programme (MTP) estimates that in 2008 the 66 million 1 Data not available television sets in use in UK homes consumed an average Source: of just over 600 Watt hours each per day. Of this an WasteDataFlow and DEFRA’s Municipal Waste Survey average of 30 watt hours (5 per cent.) was consumed Reservoirs while the television was in stand-by mode. MTP evidence indicates that the on average a new Frank Dobson: To ask the Secretary of State for television consumes 2.5 watts while in stand-by. This Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the capacity will be reduced to one watt from January 2010 as a of reservoirs owned by the water industry in England result of new EU legislation under the ecodesign for was (a) in 1989 and (b) on the latest date for which energy using products framework directive and falling figures are available. [286785] further to 0.3 watts in 2012. 739W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 740W

Thundersley Common Within the last five years, Natural England has not held discussions with Essex county council specifically on this SSSI, because the county council does not own Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for or manage it. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will assess the effect on mammalian wildlife of the removal of Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for trees from Thundersley Common. [287868] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what public consultations have been held in respect of the removal Huw Irranca-Davies: While negotiating a higher level of trees from Thundersley Common; and if he will stewardship agreement with Castle Point borough council make a statement. [287872] to support the council’s heathland restoration work on Thundersley Great Common site of special scientific Huw Irranca-Davies: Natural England does not have interest (SSSI), Natural England assessed the overall any information on public consultations held in respect impact on the mammalian fauna as neutral or beneficial, of the removal of trees from Thundersley Great Common for the following reasons: site of special scientific interest (SSSI), or in respect of the other essential components of the heathland restoration (1) The common is small and heavily used by the public, and so does not support a rich mammal fauna, though both bats and work being undertaken by Castle Point borough council. badgers do occur; These works have the full support of Natural England, in fulfilling the council’s statutory duties to protect and (2) The restoration only affects part of the common and the enhance the special interest features for which this SSSI wooded part of the common outside the SSSI will not be affected; is notified. (3) The result of the restoration will be a mosaic of open heath, scrub and trees which should be at least as favourable for mammal Bob Spink: Toask the Secretary of State for Environment, and bird species as the common is now. The mosaic will also support a range of more unusual heathland plants and animals Food and Rural Affairs on what date responsibility for and provide an open greenspace for the public to enjoy. Thundersley Common was transferred to Natural England; and if he will make a statement. [287888] Before issuing a felling licence for the removal of some trees, the Forestry Commission assessed the selected trees individually. The commission considered one to be Huw Irranca-Davies: Thundersley Great Common of potential value for roosting bats so Castle Point (14.8 hectares) is owned and managed by Castle Point borough council agreed that this tree should be left and borough council. In 1987, 8.9 hectares of the common an alternative one removed. were notified as a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 by English Nature (one of Natural England’s predecessor Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for bodies): the ownership remains with the borough council. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what discussions Both Castle Point borough council and Natural England his Department has had with (a) Essex County have statutory responsibilities to conserve and enhance Council and (b) Castle Point Borough Council in the special interest features of the SSSI. respect of Thundersley Common in the last five years. [287870] Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many oak trees have been removed from Thundersley Common in Huw Irranca-Davies: My Department has had no the last five years; and for what reasons the trees were substantive discussion with either local authority about removed. [287889] Thundersley Common in the last five years. However, Natural England (non-departmental public body sponsored by DEFRA) has had discussions with Castle Point Huw Irranca-Davies: The notified special interest features borough council. of Thundersley Common Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) are its dry heath, wet heath and acid grassland Natural England’s purpose is to ensure England’s plant communities. It is one of the best remaining natural environment is conserved, enhanced and managed fragments of heathland in Essex. for current and future generations. An important part Natural England’s records show that five oak trees, of Natural England’s remit is the protection of sites of and one birch, have been removed from Thundersley special scientific interest (SSSIs)—the country’s best Great Common SSSI since 2004. These trees were felled sites for wildlife and geology. during the 2008-9 winter by Castle Point borough council Castle Point borough council owns and manages with the assent and support of Natural England. The Thundersley Common, which includes Thundersley Great work was done as part of a higher level stewardship Common SSSI. Within the last five years, discussions in agreement to restore the special interest features of the respect of this SSSI between Natural England and the SSSI—namely its rare heathland habitats—to favourable borough council have included several on-site and office condition. Some tree removal is essential as part of this meetings and regular discussions by phone, e-mail and restoration work because many oaks became established letter. Natural England has offered consistent advice to on the heathland in the second half of the last century the council on the conservation management of the site, when the site was less actively managed. There are now aimed at restoring the heathland habitats for which the over 100 trees on the northern half of the SSSI which SSSI is notified. Since 2007, council staff have negotiated are rapidly shading out the remaining patches of heathland a higher level stewardship agreement with Natural England vegetation. If these are all left to mature a large part of to support the council’s restoration of the SSSI to the SSSI will soon be dense woodland and the heathland favourable condition. will be lost. 741W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 742W

Waste Disposal: Fees and Charges Waste Disposal: Hazardous Substances

Robert Neill: Toask the Secretary of State for Environment, Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Food and Rural Affairs what responses his Department Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what waste has received from (a) the Local Authority Recycling products have been classified as (a) inert and (b) toxic Advisory Committee, (b) Wastematters, (c) the National waste in the last 18 months. [286964] Association of Waste Disposal Officers, (d) the Chartered Institute of Waste Management, (e) the Association of Dan Norris: The Environment Agency does not classify Public Service Excellence, (f) the County Surveyors individual waste arisings. While it does collect data on Society Waste Panel and (g) Keep Britain Tidy on all wastes received at sites that it regulates, this information consultations which his Department has conducted on describes the waste using the European Waste Catalogue waste incentive schemes in the last two years. [286646] (EWC) codes and as such would not allow the Environment Agency to state which individual waste products have Dan Norris: The Department received written responses been classified as either inert or ’toxic’ (a hazardous on consultations from these bodies detailed as follows: property that could make a waste hazardous). Consultation on the Incentives for Recycling by Households, Waste Disposal: Inspections May 2007: (a) the Local Authority Recycling Advisory Committee Tim Farron: Toask the Secretary of State for Environment, (d) Chartered Institute of Waste Management Food and Rural Affairs how many inspections were (e) Association of Public Service Excellence carried out at industrial and waste sites by staff of each (f) County Surveyors Society Environment Agency office in each year since 1997. [286369] Informal consultation on draft guidance, June 2008: (a) the Local Authority Recycling Advisory Committee Dan Norris: The following table shows the total number (d) Chartered Institute of Waste Management of inspections of industrial and waste sites carried out (f) County Surveyors Society in each Environment Agency region in each year since Formal consultation on statutory Good Recycling Service 1997. Environment Agency records do not provide an guidance, September 2008: office by office breakdown. Inspections include visits and audits for processes regulated under six regimes: (e) Association of Public Service Excellence Integrated Pollution Control, Pollution Prevention and Responses were not received on any consultation Control, Waste management licensing, Environmental from (b) Wastematters, (c) the National Association Permitting Regulation, Special (Hazardous) Waste, and of Waste Disposal Officers or (g) Keep Britain Tidy. Waste Producers.

1997-98 1998-99 1999-00 00-01 01-02 02-03 03-04 04-05 05-06 06-07 07-08 08-09 Total

Anglian 18,523 20,947 17,496 16,540 15,001 13,557 15,379 14,060 11,144 6,758 6,386 5,847 161,638 Midlands 25,827 24,692 21,492 19,636 18,050 14,823 16,687 16,466 11,236 8,722 8,607 8,759 194,997 North 25,017 27,971 25,922 23,320 19,714 19,605 18,832 17,225 10,413 7,749 6,545 4,931 207,244 East North 21,688 21,858 19,270 18,531 15,158 12,962 13,997 13,352 10,325 7,593 6,732 4,914 166,380 West Southern 11,965 13,488 12,568 12,632 10,130 8,134 8,911 8,109 6,189 4,480 4,546 3,255 104,407 South 15,958 16,734 14,104 13,283 10,837 10,352 11,282 10,752 8,316 5,677 4,618 3,559 125,472 West Thames 19,642 19,799 15,117 14,246 13,386 12,679 11,958 11,917 8,647 6,445 7,386 5,701 146,923 EA 8,835 9,790 9,009 7,957 7,445 6,893 8,285 7,201 4,435 4,056 3,923 3,178 81,007 Wales Total 147,455 155,279 134,978 126,145 109,721 99,005 105,331 99,082 70,706 51,480 48,743 40,144 1,188,069

Waste Disposal: Private Finance Initiative Our findings show that while tightening credit conditions since 2008 have had an effect on the availability of Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for finance, commercial lenders are maintaining strong interest Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment in financing waste PFI projects. We also continue to see he has made of the effect of the credit crunch on good evidence of new entrant interest from contractors schemes for waste disposal plants under the private in recent bid lists. finance initiative. [286795] Waste Management: Private Finance Initiative Dan Norris: DEFRA continually assesses the relevant finance and construction markets to maintain an up to Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for date understanding of the effect that conditions in Environment, Foodand Rural Affairs what recent discussions credit markets may have on the private finance initiative he has had with representatives of the waste industry on (PFI) waste projects. This includes meeting with banks, the effects on waste disposal plants operated under contractors and waste companies as well as individual private finance initiatives of the economic downturn. local authorities. [287703] 743W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 744W

Dan Norris: My right hon. Friend the Secretary of Water Supply State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn) recently attended the Futuresource conference with representatives of the waste industry, at which a Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for number of issues affecting the waste industry were Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he discussed. has made of the volume of water lost through leakage from (a) company supply pipes and (b) piping Commercial lenders are maintaining strong interest between the water company connection point and a in financing waste private finance initiative (PFI) projects householder’s tap in (i) 1997 and (ii) 2008. [286471] and we continue to see good evidence of new interest from contractors in recent bid lists. Huw Irranca-Davies: Water companies report annual The granting of PFI credits for waste projects continues, leakage figures to Ofwat as part of their annual regulatory the most recent being awarded to a partnership between returns. Ofwat publishes leakage performance annually Coventry city council, Solihull metropolitan borough in the Service and Delivery report. council and Warwickshire county council under their umbrella-title ‘Project Transform’ in June this year. Leakage performance for the water company distribution network excluding customer supply pipes, and for customer supply pipes only for the years 1996-97 and 2007-08 Water Charges were as follows:

Frank Dobson: To ask the Secretary of State for Performance (megalitres/day) Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he 1996-97 2007-08 has made of the effect of universal water metering on (a) the net income of the water industry and (b) the Water company leakage excluding 3,274 2,468 customer supply pipes rate of consumption of water by domestic consumers. Customer supply pipe leakage 1,230 823 [286786]

Huw Irranca-Davies: No estimate has been made of the effect of universal metering on the net income on Water: Meters the water industry. Research shows that, on average, the rate of consumption Mr. Vara: Toask the Secretary of State for Environment, by household customers is reduced by about 10 per Food and Rural Affairs how many water meters were cent. when metered. installed by water supply companies in homes in (a) North West Cambridgeshire, (b) Huntingdonshire, (c) Mr. Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Peterborough and (d) Cambridgeshire in each of the for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what last five years. [287201] definition his Department uses of a permeable surface in relation to surface water drainage charges. [288074] Huw Irranca-Davies: Ofwat, the economic regulator of the water and sewerage industry, holds information Huw Irranca-Davies: Government guidance to Ofwat by water company area only. does not define permeable surfaces. It is generally accepted Tabled as follows are the figures showing how many that they include, for example, burial grounds, grass water meters Anglian Water and Cambridge Water sports fields and school playing fields. These drain installed in each of the last five years. Anglian Water naturally rather than into public sewers. Permeable and Cambridge Water are the companies that supply areas should not count towards the chargeable area the areas listed in the question. under site area charging for surface water drainage. The Anglian Water figures also include Hartlepool Water (HPL) as Anglian Water took over Hartlepool Water Charges: Voluntary Organisations Water in 1998 and they now report their figures together. Total household meters Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for Number Environment, Food and Rural Affairs in which water 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 company areas voluntary groups are affected by the new system of surface water charges; and what Anglian 23,013 19,374 25,516 28,586 33,222 and assessment has been made of the likelihood of such HPL [288981] systems being taken up in other such areas. Cambridge 1,428 1,180 1,466 1,381 1,432 Huw Irranca-Davies: Four of the 10 water and sewerage companies in England and Wales have switched to site Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for area charging for surface water drainage: Northumbrian Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many water Water, Severn Trent Water, United Utilities and Yorkshire meters were installed in homes in Castle Point by water Water. supply companies in each of the last five years. [287503] While Ofwat is recommending that other companies switch to site area charging for surface water drainage, Huw Irranca-Davies: Ofwat, the economic regulator it is for companies to decide whether to make the switch of the water and sewerage industry, does not hold data and for Ofwat, as the independent economic regulator on how many meters are installed in individual of the water industry, to approve charging schemes. constituencies. 745W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 746W

The following figures show how many water meters Copies Cost (£) Essex and Suffolk Water has installed in each of the last five years. Essex and Suffolk Water is the company that February 2001 n/a n/a serves Castle Point. April 2002 n/a n/a Essex and Suffolk June 2003 2,000 13,135 Total household meters June 2003 updated 1— n/a December 2003 2004-05 9,101 June 2003 updated 1— n/a 2005-06 11,939 July 2004 2006-07 22,051 April 2005 3,000 3,745 2007-08 16,788 July 2006 3,000 n/a 2008-09 12,837 March 2009 3,000 7,290 July 2009 2,000 1,936 1 Intranet only All copies except the two intranet only editions shown HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION were sent direct to Members. East of England Grand Committee Since 2004 the Members Estimate Committee has been responsible for the Green Book and given authority Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the hon. Member for for each edition. Since January 2009, responsibility for North Devon, representing the House of Commons advising the Members Estimate Committee (MEC) of Commission what (a) broadcasting and (b) other changes to the Green Book has rested with the Members’ facilities will be available at the venue for the meeting of Allowances Committee. the East of England Regional Grand Committee at In respect of the Green Book agreed by the House Bedford on 8 September 2009; and if he will make a published in March 2009, this was prepared by the then statement. [287559] Advisory Panel on Members’ Allowances in consultation with independent advisers and other hon. Members. It Nick Harvey: The broadcasting of committees meeting was approved by the MEC and agreed by the House in away from Westminster is usually undertaken by local January 2009 prior to publication. broadcasters themselves if they wish to do so. The coverage is pooled and they provide copies to the Robert Neill: To ask the hon. Member for North Parliamentary Recording Unit for archive purposes. Devon, representing the House of Commons Guidelines for broadcasters undertaking coverage is Commission for what reasons the council tax banding available to ensure that compliance with the Rules of of hon. Members’ properties was redacted before Coverage is maintained. Audio coverage of the meeting publication of information relating to hon. Members’ will be supplied by Westminster Sound. This will be expenses. [288259] webcast live on the www.parliamentlive.tv Nick Harvey: In July 2008, by Order, Parliament agreed an amendment to the FOIA to the effect that and Parliament websites, and will be available for 12 months any information that relates to the residential address of in the searchable audio-visual archive. a member of either House of Parliament fell outside of Facilities for Members and for members of the public the scope of that Act. attending the meeting will be provided in the Borough Taking account of this, editing of the claims-based Hall, Bedford, by arrangement with Bedford borough allowances was done on the principle that the following council. I understand that the Clerks of the East of information would be made available and all other England Regional Grand Committee will be writing to information would be removed: members of the Committee shortly with information about the arrangements, and the hon. Member may Name of Member wish to address any further enquiries to them. Allowance type Date of claim Members: Allowances Value of claim Goods or services purchased Mr. Steen: To ask the hon. Member for North Identity of supplier providing goods or services to offices Devon, representing the House of Commons (subject to certain rules). Commission how many editions of the Green Book have been issued since 2000; in which year each edition Members: Offices was published; how many copies of each edition were printed; what the cost was of publishing each edition; John Mann: To ask the hon. Member for North what consultation there was with hon. Members in Devon, representing the House of Commons Commission respect of the changes made in the edition; by what if the House of Commons Commission will discuss with processes such consultation were held; and which the appropriate authorities in the House of Lords the editions were distributed in hard copy to all hon. compilation of information on the number of (a) offices Members automatically. [287929] occupied by and (b) computers provided for members of each House in the Palace of Westminster. [286951] Nick Harvey: Since 2000, revised editions of the Green Book were published as follows. Where known, Nick Harvey: No. Information on House of Lords information is included on the number of copies produced accommodation and computers is a matter for that and the cost of production. House. 747W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 748W

Parliament: Internet quality assurance with the aim of making them available online in January 2010. They will be published alongside Mr. Amess: To ask the hon. Member for North Devon, the digitised Hansard. representing the House of Commons Commission what Trade Unions steps the Commission (a) is taking and (b) plans to take over the next two years to provide greater electronic Mr. Maude: To ask the hon. Member for North access for the public to parliamentary material; and if Devon, representing the House of Commons he will make a statement. [287824] Commission pursuant to the answer of 23 April 2009, Official Report, column 841W, on trade unions, what Nick Harvey: There are a number of strands of work steps the Commission takes to ensure that facilities under way as part of the parliamentary Web and Intranet given to trade unions are not used for political activity Programme which will provide greater electronic access or political campaigning. [287288] for the public to parliamentary material. These include changes to the format of information on the website so Nick Harvey: Political impartiality is a requirement that it conforms to accessible data standards and can be for the majority of House of Commons employees. The accessed and reused by the public, as well as improvements Staff Handbook requires that staff seek permission to the presentation to make the information more user from their manager before engaging in political activity friendly and an improved search engine that will enable and that if permission is granted, the activity must not website visitors to find the information they are looking be undertaken in circumstances where it could be reasonably for quickly and easily. be assumed that they were acting as a representative of the House of Commons. This restriction applies to Portcullis House: Fire Alarms employees who are accredited representatives or members of unions recognised by the House of Commons service Simon Hughes: To ask the hon. Member for North when using facilities provided to them on the parliamentary Devon, representing the House of Commons Commission estate. how many times the fire alarm in Portcullis House has The House of Commons service does not directly been activated (a) for fire drill purposes, (b) for testing, monitor the use of facilities made available to employees (c) because of a fire or smoke, (d) because of a defect who are accredited representatives or members of recognised in the system and (e) for other reasons in (i) each year unions. If evidence of misuse of facilities is presented, it since 2005 and (ii) 2009 to date. [288030] will be investigated.

Nick Harvey: The information requested is as follows: TRANSPORT Cause of May 2005 to January to evacuation alarm December December January to A127: Speed Limits actuation 2007 2008 June 2009 Fire 4 0 1 Bob Spink: To ask the Minister of State, Department Smoke 0 0 1 for Transport how many fines have been issued to Fire drills 3 1 1 motorists for exceeding the new speed limits on the Alarm testing 0 0 1 A127 in each of the last six months; and how many of Working on 400those fines resulted in prosecution. [288110] alarm system System defect 11 1 0 Paul Clark: This information is not held by the Other1 10 2 2 Department for Transport. The speed limit on the A127 Total 32 4 6 is enforced by average speed cameras. Since 1 April 2007 1 Includes operation of manual call points for no obvious reason, the deployment of safety cameras has been the responsibility construction (hot) works and contractors and staff disturbing of individual local partnerships. The number of fines detection beams. issued and prosecutions will therefore be a matter for Fire alarm activation records for 2005 to 2007 are the Essex road safety partnership. archived off site and it has not been possible to break Airports: Noise down the figures for that period by year. Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Standing Committees: Internet Department for Transport what the area was inside the (a) 57dB LAeq daytime summer contour and (b) Mr. Amess: To ask the hon. Member for North 48dB LAeq nighttime contour for each major airport Devon, representing the House of Commons in England in (i) 2005, (ii) 2006, (iii) 2007, (iv) 2008 and Commission what steps the Commission is (a) taking (v) 2009; and what estimate he has made of the size of and (b) plans to take over the next two years to make each such area if the planned expansion of (A) available on the Parliamentary website the transcript of Heathrow and (B) Stansted takes place. [284704] Standing Committee debates held prior to 1997; and if he will make a statement. [287823] Paul Clark: The Department for Transport produces annual ‘daytime’ aircraft noise contours (16 Hour 57dBA Nick Harvey: 421 volumes of Standing Committee Leq) for Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted—these airports debates, covering the period 1919 to 2004-05, have been have been designated for noise control purposes under digitised. The data will now go through a process of section 80 and section 78 of the Civil Aviation Act 1982. 749W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 750W

Elsewhere it is the responsibility of the airport operator Paul Clark: Since October 2005, the Department for to decide upon the timing and form of any contours. Transport has issued operating permits to 267 different Information on noise contours around Heathrow, airlines allowing them to exercise fifth freedom rights Gatwick and Stansted for 2005 to 2007 is available on from UK regional airports. the Department’s website: Aviation: Disabled http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/aviation/environmentalissues/nec/ The 2008 contours are expected to be published Dr. Vis: To ask the Minister of State, Department for shortly. Transport what obligations apply to air carriers to make Information about future projections is available in available to passengers copies of the rules and regulations ERCD 0705 ‘Revised Future Aircraft Noise Exposure which apply to them in respect of the carriage of disabled Estimates for Heathrow Airport’—also available on the people and the provision of supplementary oxygen to Department’s website. Additionally ERCD 0308 ‘Revised passengers who require it in flight. [287167] Future Aircraft Noise Exposure Estimates for UK Airports’—published at the time of ‘The Future of Air Paul Clark: Airlines are not obliged under the regulation Transport’ White Paper in 2003—contained future to make available the rules and regulations as set out. projections for Stansted. However, many airlines do lay out their policies on In terms of night time contours, the current night carrying medical oxygen on their websites. flying restrictions regime at Heathrow, Gatwick and The rules themselves are widely available. EU Regulation Stansted set the following specific noise abatement objectives 1107/2006 is published on the EU Commission website. for each airport: Its obligations are explained in the Department for At Heathrow, to limit the 6.5 hour 48 dBA Leq contour (the Transport Code of Practice, “Access to Air Travel for winter and summer seasons combined) to 55 sq km by 2011-12; Disabled Persons and Persons with Reduced Mobility”. At Stansted, to limit the 6.5 hour 48 dBA Leq contour (the The Department for Transport and the Equality and winter and summer seasons combined) to 38 sq km by 2011-12. Human Rights Commission have also published a step As regards other airports, the European Environmental by step guide called ″Your rights to fly—what you need Noise Directive 2002/49/EC, (END) requires member to know″: states to produce strategic noise maps every five years http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/your-rights/rights-in- for major airports (with 50,000 and above movements). different-settings/air-travel/your-rights-to-fly-step-by-step- The maps are required to represent annual average guide/ noise values and use of four different parameters daytime http://www.dft.gov.uk/transportforyou/access/aviation shipping/ (7 am to 7 pm); evening (7 pm to 11 pm); night (11 pm yourrightstofly to 7 am) as well as an estimated annual 24-hour period. Free copies of these documents are available from the The range of contours extend—in five dB steps—for 50 Department and the Equality and Human Rights to 70 dBA. Airports produced noise maps for 2007 and Commission website. Copies have also been placed in these are available on the Department for Environment, the Libraries of both Houses of Parliament. Food and Rural Affairs’ noise mapping website: http://services.defra.gov.uk/wps/portal/noise Dr. Vis: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what obligations apply to air carriers based Airports: South East in countries outside the EU in respect of the provision of mobility assistance to passengers on flights into the Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, UK. [287168] Department for Transport what forecast he has made of the number of passengers using each airport in the Paul Clark: Airlines based in countries outside the South East in 2030 on the basis of the most recent EU are governed by the laws of the state in which they gross domestic product forecasts from HM Treasury. are registered. Passengers needing assistance once they [288044] reach the UK should notify the airport where they will arrive 48 hours in advance of their requirements, either Paul Clark: The Department for Transport’s latest through their airline or travel agent. Passengers should forecasts of the number of passengers using each airport always check before they buy a ticket whether the air in the South East in 2030 are given in table G3, page 135 carrier they choose to fly on offers them the service they want. of “UK Air Passenger Demand and CO2 Forecasts”, published in January 2009. This is available at: Bus Services: Concessions http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/aviation/atf/co2forecasts09 No update of these forecasts is currently available. Sandra Gidley: Toask the Minister of State, Department The Department aims to publish updated forecasts for Transport what recent estimate he has made of the when there is a policy need, as it did alongside the number of pensioners who (a) are entitled to and (b) announcement of policy decisions on the future hold a concessionary bus pass in (i) Test Valley Borough development of Heathrow airport. and (ii) the City of Southampton. [288398]

Aviation Mr. Khan: During preparations for the introduction for concessionary travel, the Department for Transport Graham Stringer: To ask the Minister of State, used census data to estimate the number of older people Department for Transport to how many airlines his eligible for a concessionary bus pass. The figure for Test Department has granted fifth freedoms in respect of a Valley was 24,402 and for Southampton unitary authority regional airport since October 2005. [287732] was 40,145. 751W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 752W

The Department is not responsible for issuing passes Mr. Khan: We do not hold this information. and so does not maintain records of how many passes There are over 3,000 national standard trainers in the individual authorities have issued. The last information country and over 170 organisations registered to deliver held by the Department was that as of April 2009 Bikeability training, the name under which the national Southampton had issued approximately 37,000 new standard is promoted in England. smartcard concessionary passes. Test Valley is part of This includes 10 organisations operating in Hampshire. the Hampshire Countywide scheme who had issued Four of these, including the city council operate in approximately 184,000 passes. This includes passes issued Southampton. We do not hold details of how many to disabled people as well as those aged 60 and over. national standard trainers each training organisation employs. Channel Tunnel Railway Line We have no information on the number of people who may deliver other forms of cycle training which Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, does not meet the national standard in the Test Valley, Department for Transport pursuant to the answer of Southampton or nationally. 26 June 2009, Official Report, column 1161W, on the Channel Tunnel railway line, whether the (a) Channel Tunnel Intergovernmental Commission and (b) Office Damian McBride of Rail Regulation has powers to hear appeals in respect of Channel Tunnel access charges. [288054] Mr. Maude: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport on what date the Secretary Chris Mole: A railway undertaking may appeal in of State last met Mr. Damian McBride in the course of relation to infrastructure charges to the Channel Tunnel his official duties. [287406] Intergovernmental Commission under article 12.1 of the schedule to the Channel Tunnel (International Chris Mole: The Secretary of State for Transport has Arrangements) Order 2005 (SI No. 2005/3207, as amended). never met Mr. McBride in the course of his official The Office of Rail Regulation has no powers to hear duties. such appeals in respect of the Channel Tunnel, but may be called upon to assist the Intergovernmental Commission Departmental Conditions of Employment in dealing with them, under article 4A(1) of the same instrument. John McDonnell: Toask the Minister of State, Department for Transport for what reasons his Department’s new Norman Baker: Toask the Minister of State, Department probation policy does not make provision for women to for Transport pursuant to the answer of 26 June 2009, take maternity leave during the probation period. Official Report, column 1161W, on the Channel Tunnel [287209] railway line, what assistance the Government plans to give new rail operators to obtain the necessary safety Chris Mole [holding answer 16 July 2009]: The and access approvals to use the Channel Tunnel. Department for Transport’s (central Department) staff [288055] handbook contains employees’ contractual entitlements to maternity leave. These entitlements are unaffected by Chris Mole: The Channel Tunnel Intergovernmental the Department’s new probationary policy, which applies Commission has issued guidance to assist railway operators only to the central Department and not its agencies. In in making applications for part B safety certificates, practical terms, new employees are unlikely to be taking which they issue in respect of the Channel Tunnel. maternity leave during their probationary period. If, In addition, the Intergovernmental Commission expects however, the situation did arise, the employee would be to consult shortly on the specific safety rules that apply entitled to take maternity leave in accordance with the to the transit of passenger trains through the Tunnel. maternity leave provisions in the staff handbook. In After 15 years of operation it is necessary to consider such a case, the employee’s probationary period would whether the rules that were originally put in place be frozen and recommenced upon the employee’s return remain valid and to ensure that they do not act as an from maternity leave. unnecessary obstacle to the free movement of traffic, while at the same time ensuring that existing levels of Departmental Data Protection safety are maintained. The Government believe that existing legislation do Jenny Willott: To ask the Minister of State, Department contain, and the new legislation covering Channel Tunnel for Transport how many (a) attempts and (b) successful access to infrastructure for international rail passenger attempts were made to gain unauthorised access to each services will contain, clearly specified requirements, so (i) database and (ii) ICT system run by his Department that new rail operators will not need assistance when in each of the last five years; and if he will make a making an application. statement. [286540]

Cycling: Hampshire Chris Mole: It is not in the interests of the UK’s national security for Departments to confirm information Sandra Gidley: To ask the Minister of State, on the number of attempts, successful or otherwise, to Department for Transport how many qualified gain unauthorised access to departmental systems or instructors of cycle safety training there were in (a) databases. Such disclosure could undermine the integrity Test Valley Borough and (b) Southampton in each of and security of departmental systems and thereby expose the last five years. [287763] them to potential threats. 753W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 754W

The Department for Transport complies with the were in each of the last three years; and if he will make a mandatory requirements of the Security Policy Framework statement. [286165] in relation to information security including managing the risk of unauthorised access to ICT systems. Chris Mole: The figures for the Department for Transport Departmental Electronic Equipment and its Agencies for photocopiers, scanning devices (SDs) and fax machines (FMs), excluding multi-function Jenny Willott: To ask the Minister of State, Department devices (MFDs), are given in the following table. The for Transport how many (a) photocopiers, (b) scanning Department’s policy is to gradually replace photocopiers devices and (c) fax machines, excluding multi-function and scanners with MFDs in accordance with the ‘Greening devices, there are in his Department; how many there Government ICT Strategy’ published in July 2008:

2006 2007 2008 2009 Comments

Department for Transport (central) n/a 25 copiers 25 copiers 25 copiers 2007 figures produced by a specific audit. 2008 and 2009 figures not readily available but estimated to be similar to 2007. — 42 SDs 42 SDs 42 SDs — 56 FMs 56 FMs 56 FMs (estimated) (estimated)

Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency n/a 202 copiers 174 copiers 171 copiers All figures unavailable for 2006, and SD and FM figures for earlier three years unavailable. ———86SDs ———353FMs

Highways Agency n/a n/a n/a 0 copiers Figures for first three years unavailable. HA began phasing out standalone machines in 2005 and replacing with MFDs. 2009 figures are just a residue. ———2SDs ———7FMs

Driving Standards Agency 0 copiers 0 copiers 0 copiers 0 copiers All copiers are MFDs. 12 SDs 12 SDs 13 SDs 13 SDs 462 FMs 459 FMs 447 FMs 445 FMs

Maritime and Coastguard Agency 148 SDs 148 SDs 148 SDs 148 SDs No central record of copiers kept. SD and FM figures constant over last few years. 205 FMs 205 FMs 205 FMs 205 FMs

Vehicle and Operator Services n/a n/a n/a 12 SDs All copiers are MFDs. Scanning Agency device figures are only available for 2009. Fax machine figures unavailable. Vehicle Certification Agency 4 copiers 4 copiers 4 copiers 4 copiers Review due this year with a view to replacing with MFDs. 5 SDs 6 SDs 7 SDs 8 SDs 6 FMs 6 FMs 6 FMs 6 FMs

Government Car and Despatch 4 copiers 4 copiers 4 copiers 4 copiers Agency 3 SDs 3 SDs 3 SDs 3 SDs Have had the same equipment for several years. 8 FMs 8 FMs 8 FMs 8 FMs

Departmental Procurement in implementing the recommendations of the Glover Report in its procurement processes. [287144]

Lorely Burt: To ask the Minister of State, Department Chris Mole: The Department for Transport is working for Transport what progress his Department has made with the Office of Government Commerce on the “Access 755W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 756W for All” programme which is the specific response to the Paul Clark: The preparation and timing of any planning Glover Report. This programme is currently developing application for a third runway and associated terminal a detailed programme of work in response to each of facilities at Heathrow airport are a matter for the airport the 12 key Glover recommendations. operator. Such a development would be likely to meet the 2008 Planning Act’s threshold for a nationally significant First Great Western airport infrastructure project. The planning application would therefore be subject to consideration by the new Mr. Drew: To ask the Minister of State, Department Infrastructure Planning Commission if received after for Transport pursuant to the written ministerial statement March 2010 when the relevant threshold in the Planning of 14 July 2009, Official Report, column 14WS, on the Act is due to be commenced. First Great WesternFranchise, how much of the £29 million As part of a recent consultation on proposals to funding for passenger benefits has been (a) spent and reform the economic regulation of airports, the Department (b) allocated for expenditure; and what system will be for Transport sought views on a package of proposed used to monitor the performance of First Great Western measures to strengthen the financial resilience of airports in meeting its franchise agreement in the future. [288083] in order to protect consumers. We are currently considering responses to the consultation and will announce our Chris Mole: Benefits have been delivered to passengers decision in due course. since last year, but the relevant dates by which the £29 million must be spent have not yet been reached. The Helicopters Department for Transport will seek written evidence of compliance with the spending obligations. Mr. Gummer: To ask the Minister of State, Department Galileo for Transport what legislative provisions govern the landing of helicopters on private land. [287790] Graham Stringer: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport when he expects the Galileo Paul Clark: A helicopter landing on private land satellite navigation system to become fully functional. must comply at all times with relevant aviation safety [287733] legislation, including the rules governing low flying set out in the Rules of the Air 2007. Paul Clark: The European Commission envisages the There are no planning rules in England specifically deployment of the Galileo satellite constellation and governing the landing of helicopters on private land. It the establishment of the ground-based infrastructure to is for local planning authorities to determine, in the first run until 2013 and for initial operations to commence in instance, whether planning permission would be required, that time frame. Operational capability will be confirmed taking into account the individual circumstances of when the certification of the system, and standard each case. operational measures have been assured and the technical performance and stability of the system have met the Invalid Vehicles mission and performance requirements. This is expected to take place during the exploitation phase of the programme starting from 2014. Mr. Oaten: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how responsibility for enforcement of Great North Eastern Railway: Connex Class 2/3 weight and speed restrictions for powered mobility products is exercised; and by whom. [287991] Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport what estimate he has made Mr. Khan: Class 2 and Class 3 powered mobility of the cost to the public purse of (a) GNER and (b) scooters have to comply with specific speed and weight Connex surrendering their franchise. [283039] requirements which are set down in the Use of Invalid Carriages on Highways Regulations 1988. There is currently Chris Mole: The only franchise which has failed is no official body that routinely checks that Class 2 and Connex South Eastern. The SRA incurred costs of Class 3 scooters conform to these requirements. Local £3.8 million, over and above those recovered from Connex. enforcement bodies, including the police, do take an The details can be found in the National Audit Office’s interest in their use and will take action when they are report of December 2005, available on their website at: misused. http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/0506/the_south_eastern In addition the Department for Health and Medical passenger_ra.aspx and Health Regulatory Authority work with British The former GNER franchise was not surrendered, manufacturers to ensure that the safety and construction but was converted to a management contract before standards for mobility scooters are met. being re-let. The costs incurred by the Department for Transport were covered from the franchisee. National Express Heathrow Airport Norman Baker: Toask the Minister of State, Department Susan Kramer: Toask the Minister of State, Department for Transport if he will place in the Library a copy of the for Transport what mechanisms his Department has joint letter of 1 May signed by Dr. Mike Mitchell of his planned for the determination of planning applications Department and Ray O’Toole of National Express. in respect of the expansion of Heathrow Airport in [288050] circumstances in which his Department’s proposed Special Administration Regime for major airports is in use. Chris Mole: This document is commercially confidential [287905] at the present time. 757W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 758W

National Express East Coast Chris Mole: The Department for Transport maintains financial forecasts of anticipated subsidy payable to Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, train operating companies. However, this information is Department for Transport what steps he is taking to commercially confidential and market sensitive. prevent service disruption on the East Coast Main Line Historic subsidy payments are published in National prior to the anticipated default by National Express. Rail Trends which is available on the Office of Rail [288053] Regulation’s website at: Chris Mole: The Government have established a publicly www.rail-reg.gov.uk owned company, which will take over the management Copies are also available in the Library of the House. of the franchise when National Express East Coast ceases to operate. The Department for Transport is Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Minister of State, working with National Express to ensure and orderly Department for Transport if he will estimate the cost to handover of operations. the public purse of the privatisation of the rail network. [286593] Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport pursuant to the statement of Chris Mole: The historic costs associated with the 1 July 2009, Official Report, columns 424-26, on privatisation of the railway have been published in the National Express east coast franchise, what assessment annual reports of the various bodies involved in the he has made of the effect on his Department’s budget process. The following table sets out the reported costs for rail Control Period Four, 2009-14, of changes to the of those organisations between 1991-92 and 1996-97: National Express east coast franchise. [288189] £ million Chris Mole: The Department for Transport has sufficient budget cover to fund any shortfall for the operation of Department of Transport 93.2 services on the East Coast Main Line at the point that Office of Rail Passenger 93.5 National Express East Coast ceases to operate under Franchising their current franchise agreement. The Government Office of Rail Regulation 27.3 intend to re-let the franchise in due course; the requirement British Rail 332.2 for public support thereafter will depend upon the Railtrack 78.0 terms of the winning bid awarded by a competitive Total 624.2 process. North London Railway Line Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport how many rail franchises Norman Baker: Toask the Minister of State, Department other than the East Coast Main Line are at red on his for Transport by what date his Department expects to be Department’s financial risk scale. [288052] able to quantify the savings made under the North London Line Camden Road freight scheme announced Chris Mole: The Department for Transport reviews last year. [288058] the operational and financial performance of train operating companies on a regular basis, as part of its routine Chris Mole: The cost and final specification of the monitoring of the contractual arrangements between scheme are being assessed by Network Rail which is the Department and its franchise holders. That internal taking the scheme through its project development process. analysis is commercially confidential. The final cost will be determined by the scheme design of which Network Rail will have a preliminary indication Railways: Franchises in spring 2010. Ports: Non-domestic Rates Mr. Tom Harris: Toask the Minister of State, Department for Transport which existing rail franchises he expects to Robert Neill: To ask the Minister of State, Department return a premium to his Department by the end of the for Transport what recent representations his Department franchise period. [286074] has received on the effect on firms located in ports of the application of retrospective business rates in the last six Chris Mole: Based on existing contracted amounts it months. [288521] is anticipated that the following franchises will return a premium over the life of the contract: Paul Clark: Since 1 January 2009 the Department for Chiltern Transport has received several such representations from First Great Western a cargo services business in Grimsby and I have answered South West Trains a parliamentary question from the hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Mr. Crabb), on 25 June 2009, East Midlands Trains Official Report, column 1078W. First Capital Connect NX East Anglia Railways: Finance Southern Trains. Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Minister of State, However, overall net premium payments are dependent Department for Transport how much his Department on any revenue support payments. plans to spend on subsidy to train operators in NX East Coast has to date paid premiums, and is 2009-10. [286306] contracted to do so over the remainder of the franchise. 759W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 760W

John McDonnell: To ask the Minister of State, The specific arrangements for each operator can viewed Department for Transport how much his Department on the Department for Transport’s website at the following expects to receive in premiums from rail franchises in address: financial year 2009-10. [286900] http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/publicregister/ current/ Chris Mole [holding answer 14 July 2009]: Contracted premiums currently receivable under franchise agreements Roads: Accidents in 2009-10 total £319 million. Mark Hunter: To ask the Minister of State, Railways: North West Department for Transport if he will use the powers under section 180 (1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 to provide for the establishment of investigations on the Geraldine Smith: Toask the Minister of State, Department same basis as those conducted by air and rail accident for Transport what recent steps he has taken to improve investigation branches in order to determine the rail services in the North West. [287976] underlying causes of road traffic accidents. [287706]

Chris Mole: The North West has benefited considerably Paul Clark: All fatal collisions on our roads are from the £8.9 million upgrade of the west coast main investigated in great detail by police accident investigators. line. Since December 2008, more and faster trains have We are working to improve the analysis of their data run between London and Chester, Liverpool, Manchester, which will develop our understanding of the causes of and major towns and cities between Crewe and Glasgow. these collisions and focus further measures to prevent Northern Rail services were also improved on the route deaths on the roads. This work is supplemented by between Bradford and Manchester and the Cumbrian detailed analysis of a sample of collisions by road coast line. Investment to improve reliability has resulted safety researchers. in the best levels of performance ever experienced by We see no case to duplicate this effort by establishing Northern Rail during the four-week period ending 30 a road accident investigation branch. However, we recently May 2009. proposed the establishment of an independent expert panel to look at the pattern of fatal accidents on our Railways: Overcrowding roads and, on the basis of that analysis, recommend ways to reduce further the number of deaths on our Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Minister of State, roads. Department for Transport pursuant to the answer of Roads: Safety 26 March 2009, Official Report, column 576W, on railways: overcrowding, when the passengers in excess of capacity measure will be replaced; what measure for Mark Hunter: To ask the Minister of State, Department monitoring passenger numbers was used in 2008; and for Transport pursuant to the Second Special Report what measure for monitoring passenger numbers will from the Transport Committee, HC 422, Further Government be used for 2009. [279313] Response to the Eleventh Report of the Transport Committee of Session 2007-08, whether his Department has decided Chris Mole: The Department for Transport will continue upon the creation of an anonymised database of selected to monitor passenger numbers against capacity and information from police investigations which is not available does not plan to replace this measure. from the Stats 19 database. [288508] The Office for Rail Regulation (ORR) publishes statistics Paul Clark: The consultation document “A Safer on passengers in excess of capacity in National Rail Way” included the option of creating an anonymised Trends (NRT): database of selected information (not available from the http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/rolling-c1-railusage.pdf Stats 19) from police investigations into fatal collisions. In 2008 a measure was published for train operating The consultation closed 14 July and we are now starting companies covering London and the south-east. The to analyse the responses received. We are continuing to same measure will be updated in the National Rail review the availability of data on collisions with a view Trends Yearbook when it becomes available on 30 July to improving our understanding of the causes of collisions. 2009. Rolling Stock Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport pursuant to the answer of 26 March 2009, Norman Baker: Toask the Minister of State, Department Official Report, column 576W,on railways: overcrowding, for Transport what orders for rail carriages have been what capacity benchmarks are used for each franchise placed to date under his Department’s provision for new let after 2004; and how operators are measured against carriages under Delivering a Sustainable Railway; when those benchmarks. [279314] he expects the remainder of such orders to be placed; and when he expects delivery of carriages arising from Chris Mole: Franchises let since 2004 include a such orders to (a) commence and (b) be completed. performance regime which requires, where appropriate, [288043] a franchisee to report actual provision of seating capacity against that scheduled. This regime is based on targets, Chris Mole: 543 vehicles have been ordered to date. which usually require the franchisee to progressively Discussions are continuing with train operating improve actual provision compared with planned provision, companies for the additional vehicles and announcements over the life of the franchise. on these orders will be made in due course. 761W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 762W

Rolling Stock: Procurement Transport: Finance

Norman Baker: To ask the Minister of State, Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport on what date he estimates Department for Transport with reference to proposals that the (a) first and (b) last of the 202 new diesel contained in the Building Britain’s Future document, train carriages will be delivered. [288277] Cm 7654, how much funding his Department proposes to provide for (a) electrification of the railways, (b) a Chris Mole: We expect to make an announcement in North-South high speed rail line, (c) incentives for the due course. take-up of low carbon buses and (d) a National Cycle Plan in the next five years; and when he expects such Severn River Crossing funding to be made available. [288188]

Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Minister of State, Department Chris Mole: The work electrifying the railways will be for Transport what information he holds on the number taken forward by Network Rail. Their costs will be of vehicles in category three which used the Severn added to their Regulated Asset Base, and reimbursed Crossing in each of the last five years; and if he will through Track Access Charges and Network Grant make an estimate of the number of such vehicles registered determined, in the usual way, by as part of the regulatory in (a) England, (b) Wales, (c) Northern Ireland, (d) review process run by the Office of Rail Regulation. Scotland and (e) other EU member states which used “High Speed Two”, the company set up by the Secretary that crossing in each such year. [288048] of State for Transport to advise on the development of new high speed rail lines, have been asked to report by Mr. Khan: The numbers of category 3 vehicles recorded the end of the year on the planning, technological, travelling westbound on both Severn crossings in the capacity, value for money and funding issues involved. last five years are recorded in the following table. The Government will decide on future work programmes 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 and funding mechanisms in the light of that advice. In the meantime, HS2 has been allocated a budget of January 137,759 134,869 129,761 127,078 129,840 some £7.1 million for the current year. February 136,686 129,896 126,091 128,835 128,570 We have announced a £30 million fund to support the March 135,672 149,375 148,576 142,514 149,912 purchase of new low carbon buses in England, available April 142,564 138,498 132,031 142,484 138,525 over the current financial year and next financial year. May 141,324 148,754 145,714 138,623 138,604 In addition, bus operators are now eligible to receive an June 137,414 145,641 147,376 145,306 146,776 extra payment through Bus Service Operators’ Grant of July 144,900 151,450 143,295 142,417 148,518 6p per kilometre for services operated by a low carbon August 129,931 146,676 143,308 140,714 139,502 bus. September 138,264 141,487 142,566 143,872 147,489 October 142,618 154,104 148,308 143,056 144,250 The forthcoming National Cycle Plan will set out the November 128,216 151,385 149,910 146,799 148,896 overall future strategy for cycling. Cycling England’s December 119,414 126,566 126,594 127,921 132,820 existing budget is £60 million in each of 2009-10 and Total 1,634,762 1,718,701 1,683,530 1,669,619 1,693,702 2010-11. In addition, the Secretary of State announced in July that a further £5 million would be available to The number of category 3 vehicles registered in England, pay for cycle improvements at railway stations. Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland and other EU member Detailed decisions on funding for these areas in later states which use the crossings is not known. The operator years will be made when the Department’s overall budget of the crossings, Severn River Crossing Plc, does not is allocated as part of normal Government-wide processes. collate such data. Transport: Costs Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Minister of State, Department for Transport pursuant to the answer of 25 March 2009, Official Report, column 375W, on transport: finance, Simon Hughes: Toask the Minister of State, Department what his most recent estimate is of the levels of spending for Transport what research his Department has undertaken on transport in the period up to 2017 in respect of the or evaluated on the external costs associated with (a) commitment to double spending on transport in the holiday flights and (b) private motoring, with particular period 1997 to 2017 set out in the answer. [288216] reference to environmental costs. [287894]

Mr. Khan: The “Aviation Emissions Cost Assessment Chris Mole: “Comprehensive Spending Review 2007— 2008”, which focuses on climate change impacts, was Meeting the Aspirations of the British People” (Cm published in July 2008. This research does not attempt 7227) announced a long-term funding guideline for to identify the impacts of ‘holiday flights’ separately public spending by the Department for Transport, with from other flights. £19.7 billion spending in 2017-18. A research report, “Surface Transport Costs and Mrs. Villiers: To ask the Minister of State, Department Charges”commissioned by the Department for Transport for Transport pursuant to the answer of 25 March 2009, (DfT), provides estimates of the external costs of car Official Report, column 375W, on transport: finance, use and was published August 2001. what his most recent estimate is of the projected levels of A list of the current values for external costs used in long-term funding for his Department in order to provide transport appraisal is also available in DfT’s online for the 2.25 per cent. real growth in the Long-Term Transport Analysis Guidance ‘Webtag’: Funding Guideline to 2018-19 set out in the answer. www.webtag.org.uk [288217] 763W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 764W

Chris Mole: The annual figures for the long-term between specific cities in a given year, nor on the relative funding guideline for transport announced in cost of different travel modes for a given journey. This “Comprehensive Spending Review 2007—Meeting the information is therefore not available centrally and could Aspirations of the British People” (Cm 7227) for the be obtained only at disproportionate cost. years beyond the current spending review period, were The calculation of average journey costs between as set out in the following table. pairs of cities is a complex area, requiring detailed knowledge of routes, the modes taken, the time of day £ billion of travel, etc. One flexible source for information is the 2011-12 14.7 Department’s Transport Direct website at: 2012-13 15.4 www.transportdirect.info 2013-14 16.2 It gives an indicative cost for a car journey between any 2014-15 17.0 two British postcodes, and offers the public transport 2015-16 17.8 costs as alternatives where possible. 2016-17 18.7 2017-18 19.7 2018-19 20.7 WALES Travel Departmental Accountancy Norman Baker: Toask the Minister of State, Department for Transport (1) what estimate he has made of the Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales average cost per return journey by (a) air, (b) rail and when he expects to publish his Department’s resource (c) car between (i) London and Edinburgh, (ii) London accounts for 2008-09. [287345] and Glasgow, (iii) London and Manchester, (iv) London and Aberdeen, (v) London and Newcastle, (vi) Birmingham Mr. Hain: The Wales Office accounts are consolidated and Edinburgh, (vii) Birmingham and Glasgow, (viii) within the Ministry of Justice Resource Accounts, not Bristol and Edinburgh, (ix) Bristol and Glasgow, (x) published separately. The Ministry of Justice Resource Edinburgh and Manchester and (xi) London and Newquay; Accounts are to be laid in Parliament today, 20 July 2009. [288046] (2) what estimate his Department has made of the Welsh Language Board number of people who travelled from (a) London to Edinburgh, (b) London to Glasgow, (c) London to Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Manchester, (d) London to Aberdeen, (e) London to what the total annual cost of the Welsh Language Newcastle, (f) Birmingham to Edinburgh, (g) Birmingham Board has been in each year since it was established. to Glasgow, (h) Bristol to Edinburgh, (i) Bristol to [288510] Glasgow, (j) Edinburgh to Manchester and (k) London to Newquay at least once in the last year for which Mr. Hain: Since devolution, the funding of the Welsh information is available; and what estimate he has made Language Board has been a matter for the National of the number and proportion of such journeys undertaken Assembly for Wales. The following grant in aid payments by (i) rail, (ii) air and (iii) car in that period. [288051] have been made to the Welsh Language Board since its creation in 1993: Paul Clark: The Department for Transport’s only source of large-scale cross-modal travel data are the £000 National Travel Survey (NTS). This can be used to provide broad estimates of the percentage modal share 1993-94 129 on major inter-region transport corridors, such as London 1994-95 1,797 to the West Midlands and London to the North-West, 1995-96 1,953 as shown in the following table: 1996-97 2,000 Long distance journeys by mode, 2002-06 1997-98 5,692 Percentage 1998-99 5,762 Between London 1999-2000 5,929 and the North- Between London and 2000-01 6,330 West the West Midlands 2001-02 7,127 2002-03 6,828 Car/van 46 73 2003-04 11,584 Surface Rail/LT 40 20 Underground 2004-05 12,329 Bus inc. private (hire) 562005-06 12,677 bus 2006-07 13,441 Air 8 0 2007-08 13,454 Other 1 1 2008-09 13,534 Total 100 100 The increase in funding in 1997-98 relates to the However, the NTS sample size is insufficient to provide transfer of funding for a number of organisations from comparable data on the specific city-to-city routes listed the then Welsh Office to the Board. The 2002-03 rise was in the question. Moreover, the NTS cannot provide due to additional funding to coincide with the publication robust estimates of total numbers of people travelling of the WelshAssembly Government’s ″laith Pawb″ scheme. 765W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 766W

SCOTLAND 1. Ministerial Correspondence database—includes the names of members of the public who asked the question. Damian McBride 2. Freedom of Information database—includes the names of members of the public who asked the question. 3. Secretary of State stakeholder database—includes some Mr. Maude: To ask the Secretary of State for members of the public. Scotland on what date he last met Mr. Damian There are no current plans to store any new data or McBride in the course of his official duties. [287420] categories of personal information on members of the public across the Scotland Office as a whole. Mr. Jim Murphy: I have not met with Damian McBride in the course of my official duties. All databases which we hold and which contain personal data adhere to the provisions of the Data Protection Act. In addition, following the publication of the cross Departmental Databases government data handling review, new projects and programmes that hold significant amounts of personal Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for data are obliged to conduct privacy impact assessments. Scotland what information databases his Department (a) maintain and (b) uses which do not contain All of our databases containing personal information are stored on secure networks and have limited access. personal information. [284387] The Scotland Office does not permit uncontrolled transfer of these data to unsecured media. Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office maintains and uses the following databases; 1. Ministerial Correspondence database Departmental Internet 2. Freedom of Information database 3. Secretary of State stakeholder database Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland 4. Parliamentary Question database pursuant to the answer of 13 July 2009, Official Report, column 1W, on departmental internet, what the (a) 5. HR database names and (b) versions are of the web browsers used on 6. Invoices paid database the (i) desktop machines and (ii) laptop computers used 7. Travel database by his Department’s (A) Permanent Secretary, (B) chief All databases which we hold and which contain personal information officer, (C) head of communications and data adhere to the provisions of the Data Protection (D) head of finance. [288991] Act. In addition, following the publication of the cross government data handling review, new projects and Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office shares an programmes that would hold significant amounts of information technology system (SCOTS) with the Scottish personal data are obliged to conduct privacy impact Executive, which is responsible for the development, assessments. administration and maintenance of the system, including the provision of hardware and software. All users on Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for the SCOTS system use Internet Explorer 6. Scotland (1) what categories of personal information on members of the public are contained on each Departmental Manpower database which contains such data managed by his Department and its agencies; when each category of information was first collected; and if he will make a Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland statement; [284898] what percentage of employees in his Department are (a) women and (b) men; and what the average hourly (2) what databases managed by his Department and pay is of (i) male and (ii) female employees. [288603] its agencies hold personal information on members of the public; on what date each such database became operational; and if he will make a statement; [285978] Ann McKechin: Staffing information containing the gender breakdown of the Scotland Office are published (3) which of the planned databases that will be in the Office’s annual report; available in the House managed by his Department or one of its agencies and Library or on our website at: which will hold personal information on members of the public are expected to become operational in each http://www.scotlandoffice.gov.uk/scotlandoffice/ 10797.135.html of the next five years; and if he will make a statement; [286147] As all staff in the Scotland Office are on secondment from the Scottish Executive or the Ministry of Justice (4) what categories of personal information on the Office reimburses those Departments for the costs members of the public will be held on each of his involved. The Office does not maintain a record of the Department’s databases expected to become hourly pay of staff; such information is held by the operational in the next five years; what estimate he has parent Departments. made of the likely number of individuals’ details each such database will hold when fully operational; and if he will make a statement. [286498] Departmental Publications

Ann McKechin: The Scotland Office owns very few Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland databases, there are three that contain information about pursuant to the answer of 15 July 2009, whether special members of the public. The details held are names and advisers in his Department were involved in the drafting contact details, unless otherwise stated. of the background paper Scotland and Oil. [288759] 767W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 768W

Mr. Jim Murphy: Special advisers in the Scotland 3 July 2009, Official Report, column 499W, on email, at Office, work with the permanent civil service, and provide what address members of the public are able to email advice and assistance to Ministers across the range of him; on what date the account was set up; how often the their activities in accordance with the Code of Conduct account is checked; and what account he takes of the for Special Advisers. emails he receives from members of the public in his formulation of policy. [286120] Fuels: Prices The Prime Minister: The present e-mail system went Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for live in April 2009 and is available on the No. 10 website Scotland when his Department’s officials last met HM at: Treasury officials to discuss the proposals for a reduced https://email.number10.gov.uk/ fuel prices pilot scheme in island communities in E-mails are checked on a regular basis. Scotland. [287717]

Ann McKechin: Officials in the Scotland Office have Departmental Reorganisation discussions with HMT officials on a regular basis on a variety of issues. Paul Holmes: To ask the Prime Minister what the cost has been of restructuring the machinery of Mr. Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for Government since 2007. [280665] Scotland (1) what steps his Department has taken to identify suitable locations for the pilot scheme for The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the reduced fuel prices in island communities in Scotland; answer I gave the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam [287718] (Mr. Burstow) on 15 June 2009, Official Report, (2) what plans he has for a pilot scheme for reduced column 51W. fuel prices in the Highlands and Islands; and when the In addition, I have today placed in the Libraries of scheme is planned to start. [287719] both Houses a paper by the Cabinet Office which sets out the functions of Departments following the creation Ann McKechin: The Government have no plans to of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. introduce such a scheme. While the Government recognise the impact of higher fuel prices on those living in island Derek Draper communities in Scotland and in other rural areas across the UK, such prices are set by fuel producers and suppliers as a result of their commercial judgments, Mr. Maude: To ask the Prime Minister pursuant to driven by market forces. OFT reports have repeatedly the answer of 7 May 2009, Official Report, column shown that markets are functioning properly in rural 379W, on Chequers, for what reason Mr Derek Draper areas such as North West Scotland and the Scottish was invited to attend Chequers on 16 November 2008. islands, but any evidence of anti-competitive behaviour [287277] on the part of fuel sellers can of course be brought to their attention. The Prime Minister: A list of guests who have received official hospitality at Chequers is published on an annual The Secretary of State met with the hon. Member for basis. For information for the financial year 2008-09 I Argyll and Bute (Mr. Reid) at his request to discuss refer the right hon. Member to the written statement I these issues. made to the House on 16 July 2009, Official Report, columns 70-73WS.

PRIME MINISTER Derek Draper and Charlie Whelan Damian McBride Mr. Maude: To ask the Prime Minister when he last (a) met and (b) communicated with (i) Mr Derek Mr. Maude: To ask the Prime Minister (1) on what Draper and (ii) Mr Charlie Whelan in the course of his date he last met Mr Damian McBride in the course of official duties. [287352] his official duties; [287363] (2) on what date each of his special advisers last met The Prime Minister: My officials and I have meetings Mr Damian McBride in the course of their official with a wide range of organisations and individuals on a duties. [287365] range of subjects. The Prime Minister: I refer the right hon. Member to the answers I gave during Prime Minister’s Questions to Eastern Europe the hon. Member for Ilford, North (Mr. Scott) on 17 June 2009, Official Report, columns 301-2 and the Mr. Hands: To ask the Prime Minister pursuant to the hon. Member for Rochford and Southend, East (James answer of 3 July 2009, Official Report, column 499W,on Duddridge) on 24 June 2009, Official Report, column 791. Eastern Europe, on what occasions since June 2007 he has met (a) President Václav Klaus of the Czech Republic, Departmental E-mail (b) President Lech Kaczynski of Poland and (c) President Dmitri Medvedev of the Russian Federation (i) in the Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Prime Minister pursuant UK, (ii) in each leader’s home country and (iii) elsewhere. to his answer to the hon. Member for Birkenhead of [287594] 769W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 770W

The Prime Minister: I have nothing further to add to The Prime Minister: No. the answer I gave the hon. Member on 3 July 2009, Official Report, column 499W. Lord Mandelson European Commission Mr. Maude: To ask the Prime Minister what Mr. Hayes: To ask the Prime Minister (1) what responsibilities Lord Mandelson has as First Secretary criteria he plans to adopt in determining the of State. [287293] Government’s position on the selection of the next The Prime Minister: I refer the right hon. Member to President of the European Commission; [287743] the machinery of government press notice issued by my (2) what criteria he plans to adopt in selecting the Office. Copies are available in the Library of the House next UK candidate for the European Commission. and are also available on the No. 10 website at: [287744] http://www.number10.gov.uk/Paqe19525 The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave him on 26 June 2009, Official Report, Members: Correspondence column 1190W. Andrew Selous: To ask the Prime Minister pursuant Former Ministers: Pay to the answer of 10 June 2009, Official Report, column 784, when he plans to write to the hon. Member for Mr. Hurd: To ask the Prime Minister (1) whether South West Bedfordshire following the meeting on 24 Lord Carter of Barnes (a) has received or (b) will June 2009 to set out the steps he is taking to address the receive payment on leaving Ministerial office; [289076] issues raised. [288071] (2) which former Ministers (a) received and (b) elected to forego payments following their departure The Prime Minister: I have arranged for my hon. from Ministerial office in June 2009. [289077] Friend the Minister of State for Health (Mr. O’Brien) to reply to the hon. Member following our meeting. The Prime Minister: Severance pay is payable in accordance with section 4 of the Ministerial and other Official Gifts Pensions and Salaries Act 1991. Iraq Committee of Inquiry Mr. Hayes: To ask the Prime Minister, if he will publish a list of gifts valued at over £140 which were purchased by his predecessor on leaving office; and if Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Prime Minister pursuant he will make a statement. [287745] to the answer of 13 July 2009, Official Report, columns 104-8W, on the Iraq Committee of Inquiry: finance, The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the how he plans to update the House on progress made written ministerial statement I made on 22 July 2008, during the summer adjournment on the work being Official Report, column 102WS. taken forward by the Cabinet Office on the Government’s support to, and liaison with, the Chilcot inquiry; and if Mr. Hayes: To ask the Prime Minister, when he plans he will make a statement. [288060] to place in the Library a copy of the List of Ministerial Gifts Received and Valued Over £140 for 2007-08. The Prime Minister: I have nothing further to add to [287746] the answer I gave my hon. Friend on 13 July 2009, Official Report, columns 104-8W. The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the Iraq: Armed Conflict written ministerial statement I made on 16 July 2009, Official Report, column 66WS. Lynne Jones: To ask the Prime Minister which of the matters referred to in his statement of 15 June 2009, Official Residences Official Report, columns 21-24 on Iraq he would classify as containing the (a) costs and (b) benefits to the UK Robert Neill: To ask the Prime Minister whether the of participation in the Iraq war and occupation. [283730] official residence in South Eaton Place has been sold. [286893] The Prime Minister: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave her on 26 June 2009, Official Report, The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the column 1190W. In addition on costs, I refer my hon. answer given to him by my hon. Friend the Minister for Friend to the answer given by my right hon. Friend the Borders and Immigration at the Home Office (Mr. Woolas) then Defence Secretary (Mr. Hutton) on 23 February on 14 July 2009, Official Report, column 310W. 2009, Official Report, column 33W. Robert Neill: To ask the Prime Minister what use will Lord Carter be made of the Ministerial residence in Admiralty House following Lord Malloch-Brown’s departure Mr. Maude: To ask the Prime Minister whether Lord from the Government. [286894] Carter received a severance payment on relinquishing his role as chief of strategy and principal adviser at 10 The Prime Minister: A decision on this will be made Downing Street. [287292] in due course. 771W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 772W

Public Expenditure The more temporary facilities at Hadleigh Farm for the mountain biking events and at Regents Park for the Tony Baldry: To ask the Prime Minister pursuant to finish of the road cycling events will be constructed the answer of 1 July 2009, Official Report, column 294, nearer to 2012. what he meant by the phrase a zero per cent. rise in Housing 2013-14. [285202]

The Prime Minister: Spending budgets and forecasts Mr. Cunningham: To ask the Minister for the are set out in Budget 2009. I also refer the hon. Member Olympics what steps are being taken to ensure that to the press briefing given by my spokesman on 1 July housing built for the London 2012 Olympics will be 2009. A transcript of this is available on the No. 10 available for use by local people after the games. website at: [287468] http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page19909 Tessa Jowell: After the Games the Olympic Village, and a copy has been placed in the Library of the House. as planned from the outset, will be converted into a mix of private and social housing available for take-up by local people and others. OLYMPICS Nearly 50 per cent. of the 2,818 homes will be provided Olympic Park as affordable by Triathlon Homes, a consortium which includes a Stratford based registered landlord, East 5. Mr. Evennett: To ask the Minister for the Olympics Thames Housing Group. what recent progress has been made on the The allocation of affordable homes will be agreed construction of the Olympic park for the London 2012 between Triathlon Homes and the London borough of Olympics. [287470] Newham in the context of national housing policies and the London Mayor’s housing strategy. Tessa Jowell: Construction of the Olympic Park venues and infrastructure is progressing well. Legacy: Scotland Building work is well under way on the five main Park venues: the Stadium, Aquatics Centre, Velodrome, Mr. Hamilton: To ask the Minister for the Olympics the Athletes’ Village and the International Broadcast what recent discussions she has had on the legacy for Centre/Main Press Centre, and is ahead of schedule in Scotland from the London 2012 Olympics. [287471] some cases. 39.2 per cent. of the Olympic Delivery Authority’s Tessa Jowell: Construction of the Olympic Park venues programme is now complete. and infrastructure is progressing well. Building work is well under way on the five main Prostitution Park venues: the Stadium, Aquatics Centre, Velodrome, the Athletes’ Village and the International Broadcast 7. Mr. Steen: To ask the Minister for the Olympics if Centre/Main Press Centre, and is ahead of schedule in she will hold discussions with the Secretary of State for some cases. the Home Department on policy to minimise levels of prostitution associated with the number of tourists 39.2 per cent. of the Olympic Delivery Authority’s expected to attend the London 2012 Olympics. [287472] programme is now complete. Tessa Jowell: I have regular discussions with Home Departmental Consultants Office Ministers on the London 2012 Safety and Security programme. This is one of many issues that have and Mr. Hunt: To ask the Minister for the Olympics (1) will continue to be discussed. how much (a) the Olympic Delivery Authority and (b) We are currently seeing no evidence to suggest an her Office spent on consultancy fees in (i) 2007-08 and increase in the sex industry or human trafficking in (ii) 2008-09; [274955] relation to the Games. However, police services will (2) when she plans to answer Question 274955, continue to monitor and will respond to the situation tabled by the hon. Member for South West Surrey on should it change before or during the Olympics. 7 May 2009, on consultancy fees. [280975]

Cycling Tessa Jowell [holding answer 12 May 2009]: The procurement of consultancy services by both Government 8. Dr. Harris: To ask the Minister for the Olympics Olympic Executive (GOE) and Olympic Delivery Authority what progress has been made in constructing the facilities (ODA) is a planned response to the need to deliver the for cycling events at the London 2012 Olympics. Government’s commitments and guarantees to deliver [287473] the London 2012 games on time and within a budget of Tessa Jowell: Construction of the Velodrome—designed £9.325 billion. to be the World’s fastest track—commenced in March, The consultants provide valuable short term support is progressing as scheduled, and is on track to be or key specialist skills and expertise not otherwise readily completed in early 2011. The foundations of the venue available. are complete and work on the concrete slabs and ground The use of consultants has enabled us to make excellent to concourse columns has commenced. progress across the many facets of the Olympic programme Construction of the BMX facilities, adjacent to the and in particular in the construction of the Olympic Velodrome will commence in 2010. venues and development of legacy planning. As well as 773W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 774W rapid progress we have seen significant savings across Consultancy fees (£ million) the venues and infrastructure construction programme, whose anticipated final cost (AFC) fell by £179 million 2005-06 6.1 from £7,413 million when we published the London 2006-07 13.7 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games Annual Report 2007-08 19.8 in January 2009 to £7,234 million when we published 2008-09 16 our Quarterly Economic Report in May 2009. As the IOC recently recognised, inputs such as these are continuing to transform the Lower Lea Valley and provide a lasting legacy for the people of London and the UK. NORTHERN IRELAND Spending by the Olympic Delivery Authority on consultancy fees reduced from £19.8 million (3.7 per cent. of total ODA spend) in 2007-08 to £16 million Bomb Disposal (1.2 per cent.) in 2008-09. This reduction reflects the shift from the planning, Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern design and preparation phase of the programme, where Ireland how many times the Army Bomb Disposal consultancy costs are traditionally concentrated, to the Squad has been deployed against (a) hoax and (b) real development phase. devices in each month of the last two years. [287646] Spending by the Government Olympic Executive (GOE) on consultancy was £0.4 million in 2007-08 and £0.3 million Paul Goggins: The following table shows the number in 2008-09, 4.6 per cent. and 3.4 per cent. respectively of of times that the Army Explosive Ordnance Disposal GOE’s total budget. personnel (EOD) have been called out in respect of both hoax and real devices in each month over the last Olympic Games 2012: Consultants two years.

Bob Spink: To ask the Minister for the Olympics how IED1/Incendiary2/ Hoax4/False5 call 3 much the Olympic Delivery Authority has spent on Find call outs outs Total call outs consultants in each year since its creation. [279410] 2007 July 16 10 26 Tessa Jowell: The procurement of consultancy services August 11 1 12 by both Government Olympic Executive (GOE) and September 26 5 31 Olympic Delivery Authority (ODA) is a planned response October 23 6 29 to the need to deliver the Government’s commitments November 15 2 17 and guarantees to deliver the London 2012 games on December 17 5 22 time and within a budget of £9.325 billion.

The consultants provide valuable short term support 2008 or key specialist skills and expertise not otherwise readily January 6 15 21 available. February 2 16 18 The use of consultants has enabled us to make excellent March 7 16 23 progress across the many facets of the Olympic programme April 20 4 24 and in particular in the construction of the Olympic May121729 venues and development of legacy planning. As well as June 16 7 23 rapid progress we have seen significant savings across July 17 6 23 the venues and infrastructure construction programme, August 12 14 26 whose anticipated final cost (AFC) fell by £179 million September 19 11 30 from £7,413 million when we published the London October 21 14 35 2012 Olympic and Paralympics Games Annual Report November 30 25 55 in January 2009 to £7,234 million when we published December 19 7 26 our Quarterly Economic Report in May 2009.

As the IOC recently recognised, inputs such as these 2009 are continuing to transform the Lower Lea Valley and January 19 4 23 provide a lasting legacy for the people of London and February 18 9 27 the UK. March 28 51 79 Spending by the Olympic Delivery Authority on April222951 consultancy fees reduced from £19.8 million (3.7 per May241135 cent. of total ODA spend) in 2007-08 to £16 million June 22 17 39 (1.2 per cent.) in 2008-09. 1 IED—The report of EOD action which results in the total neutralisation, disruption or dismantling of an Improvised Explosive Device. This reduction reflects the shift from the planning, 2 Incendiary—The report of the functioning of an IED which is primarily design and preparation phase of the programme, where designed to cause damage by burning. consultancy costs are traditionally concentrated, to the 3 Find—The report of explosives or bomb-making components, weapons, ammunition or tools found by the police or security forces and confirmed by the development phase. EOD operator after full investigation. Spending by the Olympic Delivery Authority on 4 Hoax—The report of an incident where, after full investigation, an object is discovered to be a simulated IED. consultancy fees in each completed financial year since 5 False—A report made in good faith of an object believed to be an IED which, its creation has been: upon full investigation, proves to be innocuous. 775W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 776W

Departmental Buildings Number of letters Percentage replied to received within target Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for NIO core 467 87.4 Northern Ireland how many square metres of floor Northern Ireland 2,204 99.6 space there are at each of the premises occupied by his Prison Service [285408] Department. Forensic Science 64 99 Northern Ireland Mr. Woodward: The floor space occupied by the core Compensation 61,209 98.7 Department is detailed in the following table. Buildings Agency occupied by less than five individuals are not included. Youth Justice 94 98.9 Agency Building Area (m2)

Annexe A Dundonald House 390 Departmental Databases Ballymena Chambers 2,358 Belfast Chambers 6,761 Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Castle Buildings 3,862 Northern Ireland what information databases his Foyle Chambers 2,360 Department (a) maintain and (b) uses which do not Hillsborough Castle 124 contain personal information. [284388] Hillview 812 Knockview 1,640 Paul Goggins: The internal computer databases Lagan House 947 maintained by the Northern Ireland Office are listed as Linum Chambers 2,710 follows. Lisburn 2,887 Any personal information stored in these databases is Massey House 1,406 subject to the Data Protection Act and to the Northern Millbank 3,116 Ireland Office data protection policy. Also following the Millennium House 2,174 publication of the cross government data handling review Omagh Chambers 2,733 in June 2008, new projects and programmes that hold PSNI Headquarters 153 significant amounts of personal data are obliged to Royal Courts of Justice Belfast 1,194 conduct privacy impact assessments. Stormont House 500 Databases containing personal information Stormont House Annexe 1,725 Mail Contact Addresses—Stats and Research; Stormont House Bungalow 140 Juvenile Justice Policy Stats database; Unit 2 Walled Garden 350 Mentally Disordered Offenders; Windsor House 2,469 Fireworks; CATS (Correspondence and Case Tracking); Departmental Correspondence Controlled Substances; Shotfirers; Mr. Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State Prohibited Weapons; for Northern Ireland what the (a) target and (b) average MSER (Register of Explosives Stores); actual time taken to respond to correspondence was of Registered Premises; (i) his Department and (ii) its agencies in the most Security Section database; recent period for which figures are available. [284155] Firearm Appeals; KPPS (Key Persons Protection Scheme) Database (.net version); Mr. Woodward: With the exception of the Compensation Security Vetting Database; Agency, the target for responding to correspondence (a) for my Department and agencies is 15 working Pass Photograph Database; days. The Compensation Agency works to a tighter Pass/Access control system; target of 10 working days because of its closer direct Visits Section VIP Database; contact with the general public. Visits Section VVIP Database; Data on the actual time taken to respond to individual CATS (Correspondence and Case Tracking) Belfast (1); correspondence is not held centrally and to collate the CATS (Correspondence and Case Tracking) Belfast (2); average time taken (b), given the volumes of CATS (Correspondence and Case Tracking) London; correspondence received, would therefore incur Board of Visitors database; disproportionate costs. Neighbourhood Watch Registered Applications; My Department and agencies do however report Neighbourhood Watch ID Cards; annually on percentage of correspondence replied to Antisocial Behaviour Orders Database; within target timeframes. The most recent period for which performance against these targets is available is Integra; the 2008 calendar year, as set out in Annex F of the Hospitality; Northern Ireland Office’s 2009 Departmental Report Flight Desk; www.nio.gov.uk Hotel Bookings; Performance for the period 1 January 2008 to Financial Services Travel System; 31 December 2008 was as follows: Staff Welfare Database. 777W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 778W

Databases not containing personal information Database name Date COMPASS; Prisoners Private Cash 1996 CommVault; File Registry Central Records 1996 File Registry Internal Audit; Adjudication database 1999 Internal Audit Library; Inmates medical fitness tests 1999 Druid97; SASHA 1990 SAP Solution Manager; Operational Management Unit 1995 CJPD File Registry Database. Litigation Database 1995 PAFIS (Prison Accounting and Financial System) 1997 DFITS (Departmental Finance IT system) 1997 Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for VIRBS (Visitor Inmate Recognition and Booking 1999 Northern Ireland which databases managed by his System) Department and its agencies hold personal information SIPS (Secure Image Processing System) 2008 on members of the public; on what date each such SIPS Viewer 2008 database become operational; and if he will make a Alchemist 2000 statement. [284902] Skillbuilders 2008 GOMIS 2 1995 Paul Goggins: Details of the databases managed by Oscar 2 Wages 1995 the Northern Ireland Office and its agencies which hold Prisoner Release Victims Information Unit 2003 personal information on members of the public and the PRISM 2004 date they became operational are listed in the following Neighbourhood Watch Registered Applications 2004 tables. Neighbourhood Watch ID Cards 2006 Antisocial Behaviour Orders Database 2006 Any personal information stored in these databases is Integra 1997 subject to the Data Protection Act and to the Northern Tarrif System 2002 Ireland Office data protection policy. Also following the Altos 1989 publication of the cross government data handling review FSNI Case Management System 1982 in June 2008, new projects and programmes that hold DNA Database 1996 significant amounts of personal data are obliged to Asset 4000 Finance 2007 conduct privacy impact assessments. Agresso Finance 2006

Database name Date Mail Contact Addresses—Stats & Research 1996 Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Juvenile Justice Policy Stats database 1996 Northern Ireland what categories of personal information Mentally Disordered Offenders 2006 about members of the public are contained on each Juvenile Justice database 2004 relevant database managed by his Department and its Fireworks 1990 agencies; on what date each category of information CATS (Correspondence & Case Tracking) 1990 began to be collected; and if he will make a statement. Controlled Substances 1995 [285972] Shotfirers 1994 Prohibited Weapons 1997 MSER (Register of Explosives Stores) 2006 Paul Goggins: Details of the categories of personal Registered Premises 1998 information about members of the public held on databases Security Section database 2000 managed by the Northern Ireland Office and its agencies Firearm Appeals 2001 and the date each category began to be collected are KPPS (Key Persons Protection Scheme) Database 2004 listed in the following tables. (.net version) Any personal information stored in these databases is Security Vetting Database 2007 subject to the Data Protection Act and to the Northern Pass Photograph Database 2001 Ireland Office data protection policy. Also following the Pass/ Access control system 2009 publication of the cross-Government data handling Visits Section VIP Database 2000 review in June 2008, new projects and programmes that Visits Section VVJP Database 2004 hold significant amounts of personal data are obliged CATS (Correspondence & Case Tracking) Belfast 1990 (1) to conduct privacy impact assessments. CATS (Correspondence & Case Tracking) Belfast 1990 (2) Database name Categories of information Date CATS (Correspondence & Case Tracking) London 1990 Mail Contact Addresses - Name, Address 1996 Board of Visitors database 1990 Stats and Research JJC Juvenile Justice database 2004 Juvenile Justice Policy Name, Address, Criminal Offences 1996 Juvenile Justice Centre Incidents Database 2005 Stats database Youth Conference Service Database 2004 Mentally Disordered Name, Medical 2006 Youth Justice Agency Accounts System 2003 Offenders Youth Justice Agency Prompt Payment Database 2005 Juvenile Justice database Contact Name, Contact Numbers, 2004 Offences GOMISHQ and security 1995 Fireworks Name, Address, Phone Numbers, 1990 Dead File Registry 1993 Fireworks Stored, Licenses Granted LSU Life Sentence Unit database 1993 CATS (Correspondence Name, Address, Case Tracking, 1990 Prisoners’ Tuckshop 1996 and Case Tracking) Correspondence Tracking 779W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 780W

Database name Categories of information Date Database name Categories of information Date

Controlled Substances Name, Address, Explosives Stored, 1995 VERBS (Visitor Inmate Name, Address, DOB, Phone 1999 Licences Granted Recognition and Booking Number, Company, Photograph, Shotfirers Name, Address, Licences Granted 1994 System) Fingerprint, Prisoner ID, Custody Dates Prohibited Weapons Name, Address, Weapons Held 1997 SIPS (Secure Image Name, DOB, Prisoner ID, Security 2007 MSER (Register of Name, Address, DOB, Phone 2006 Processing System) Category, Fingerprint, Photograph, Explosives Stores) Numbers, Stored Explosives Physical Description, Custody Dates Registered Premises Name, Address, DOB, Storage Use 1998 SIPS Viewer Name, DOB, Prisoner ID, Security 2008 Security Section database Name, DOB, Clearances, Security 2000 Category, Physical Description, Breaches Custody Dates Firearm Appeals Name, Address, DOB, Legal 2001 Alchemist Name, Prison Number, Medical 2000 Representative, Weapon Types, Records Appeals Outcomes Skillbuilders Name, Prison Number, DOB 2008 KPPS (Key Persons Name, Address, Security and 2004 Protection Scheme) Financial Information GOMIS 2 Name, Prison Number 1995 Database (.net version) Oscar 2 Wages Name, Prison Number 1995 Security Vetting Database Name, DOB, Clearances, Criminal 2007 Prisoner Release Victims Name, Prison Number, DOB 2003 Record Information Unit Pass Photograph Name, DOB, Photographs 2005 PRISM Name, Address, Phone Number 2005 Database Neighbourhood Watch Co-ordinators Names 2004 Pass/Access control Name, DOB, Photographs 2009 Registered Applications system Neighbourhood Watch Co-ordinators Names 2006 Visits Section VIP Name, Address, DOB, Functions 2000 ID Cards Database Antisocial Behaviour Names, DOBs of ASBO Holders 2006 Visits Section WJT Name, Address, Phone Numbers, 2004 Orders Database Database Events Integra Name/Company, Address, Bank 1997 CATS (Correspondence Name, Address, Case Tracking, 1990 Account Details and Case Tracking) Correspondence Tracking Belfast (1) Tariff System Name, Address, DOB, NI Number, 2002 Incident Details, Injury Details, Case CATS (Correspondence Name, Address, Case Tracking, 1990 Status, Payments Record, Offender and Case Tracking) Correspondence Tracking Details Belfast (2) Altos Name, Address, DOB, NI Number, 1989 CATS (Correspondence Name, Address, Case Tracking, 1990 Incident Details, Injury Details, Case and Case Tracking) Correspondence Tracking Status, Payments Record, Offender London Details Board of Visitors Name, Address, DOB, Phone 1990 database Numbers FSNI Case Management Name, DOB, Incident Details 1982 System JJC Juvenile Justice Name, DOB, Offences, Justice 2004 database Program Info DNA Database Name, Gender, DOB, Ethnic Type, 1996 DNA Profile Analysis Information Juvenile Justice Centre Name, Address, DOB, Incident, 2009 Incidents Database Injuries, Section 75 data Asset 4000 Finance Company, Address, Email Addresses, 2006 Phone Numbers, Payment Details Youth Conference Service Offender Name, Address, Gender, 2004 Database DOB, Criminal Record Offence Agresso Finance Company, Address, Email Addresses, 2006 Referral and Review. Victim Name, Phone Numbers, Payment Details Classification of Victim, Relationship to Victim, Attendance Requirements Youth Justice Agency Company Name, Address, Bank 2003 Accounts System Details, Payment Details Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Youth Justice Agency Company Name, Address, Payment 2005 Prompt Payment Details Northern Ireland what categories of personal information Database on members of the public will be held on each database GOMISHQ and security Name, Address, DOB, Offences 1995 expected to become operational in the next five years Dead File Registry Name, Address, DOB, Offences 1993 and which will be managed by his Department or one of LSU Life Sentence Unit Name, Address, DOB, Offences, 1993 its agencies; what estimate he has made of the likely database Prison Contact Name, Phone number of individuals’ details each such database will Numbers hold when fully operational; and if he will make a Prisoners’ Tuckshop Name, Purchases, Costs 1996 statement. [286141] Prisoners Private Cash Name, Prison Number, DOB 1996 File Registry Central Name, Address, DOB, Offences 1996 Records Adjudication database Name, DOB, Adjudication Details, 1999 Paul Goggins: Details of the databases which will be Adjudication Outcome managed by the Northern Ireland Office or its agencies Inmates medical fitness Name, DOB, Test Results 1999 and are expected to become operational in the next five tests years together with the categories of personal information SASHA Name, DOB, Physical Characteristics, 1990 Offences held on members of the public and the estimated number Operational Management Name, Address, DOB, Minister Cases, 1995 of records are listed in the following table. Unit CEO Cases Litigation Database Name, DOB, Legal Representation, 1995 Any personal data which will be stored in these Claim Details, Claim Outcome databases will be subject to the Data Protection Act and PAFIS (Prison Name, Company Name, Address, 1997 to the Northern Ireland Office data protection policy. Accounting and Bank Account Details Also following the publication of the cross-government Financial System) data handling review in June 2008, new projects and DFITS (Departmental Name, Company Name, Address, 1997 programmes that hold significant amounts of personal Finance IT system) Bank Account Details data are obliged to conduct privacy impact assessments. 781W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 782W

Categories of personal Estimated number of Database name Under construction/Expected to go live Database name information records Juvenile Justice Centre Expected to go live over the next three months 2009 Incidents Database Replacement Visitor Name, prison number, 125,000 over five to Inmate address, visitor number, years 2010 Recognition and DOB, phone/fax numbers Bookings System Youth Justice Agency This project is at an early stage and will not go (VIRBS) Case Management System live before 2010 Replacement Secure Name, prison number, 125,000 over five Image Processing address, visitor number, years System (SIPS) DOB, phone/fax numbers 2011 Juvenile Justice Name, address, DOB, details Not known Nil — Centre Incidents of incident, physical Database restraints, single separations, self harm, sanctions 2012 imposed, injuries, Section 75 Nil — data

2013 2010 Nil — Youth Justice Name, address, gender, Currently 2,350 Agency Case DOB, Section 75, risk individuals referred Management System assessment, criminal record, to YJA per annum Departmental Electronic Equipment offence referral, medical notes, educational attainments, referral programme, review notes, Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for incident reporting Northern Ireland how many (a) photocopiers, (b) scanning devices and (c) fax machines, excluding 2011 multi-function devices, there are in his Department; how many there were in each of the last three years; Nil — — and if he will make a statement. [286168]

2012 Mr. Woodward: My Department currently has (a) 82 Nil — — photocopiers, (b) 50 scanning devices, and (c) 149 fax machines. Figures are not available for previous years. 2013 A pilot scheme is currently running aimed at increasing Nil — — the use of multifunctional printing devices in line with the Department’s Green IT Strategy.

Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Internet Northern Ireland what databases which will be managed by his Department or one of its agencies and which will contain personal information are (a) under Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern construction and (b) expected to become operational Ireland what the maintenance and development costs of in each of the next five years; and if he will make a his departmental website were in (a) 2005-06 and (b) statement. [286507] 2006-07. [285410]

Paul Goggins: Details of databases which will be Mr. Woodward: A review of the Northern Ireland managed by the Northern Ireland Office or one of its Office website was conducted in March 2007 to optimise agencies which will contain personal information currently the site and improve performance and download speed. under construction or expected to become operational Maintenance and development costs for 2006-07 were in each of the next five years are listed in the following £15,677.44. For the period 2005-06 the costs were table. £10,293.50. Any personal data which will be stored in these Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for databases will be subject to the Data Protection Act and Northern Ireland (1) pursuant to the answer of 13 July to the Northern Ireland Office data protection policy. 2009, Official Report, column 39W, on departmental Also following the publication of the cross-government internet, what the (a) names and (b) versions are of data handling review in June 2008, new projects and the web browsers used on the (i) desktop machines and programmes that hold significant amounts of personal (ii) laptop computers used by his Department’s (A) data are obliged to conduct privacy impact assessments. Permanent Secretary, (B) chief information officer, (C) head of communications and (D) head of finance; Database name Under construction/Expected to go live [288989] 2009 (2) pursuant to the answer of 9 July 2009, Official Replacement Visitor to The Northern Ireland Prison Service is currently Report, columns 918-19W, on departmental internet, Inmate Recognition and looking for a replacement for the existing VIRBS what the (a) names and (b) versions are of the web Bookings System (VIRBS) system—it will go live in 2009 or 2010 depending on the chosen solution browsers used on the (i) desktop machines and (ii) Replacement Secure The Northern Ireland Prison Service is currently laptop computers used by his Department’s (A) Image Processing System looking for a replacement for the existing SIPS Permanent Secretary, (B) chief information officer, (C) (SIPS) system—it will go live in 2009 or 2010 depending head of communications and (D) head of finance. on the chosen solution [288999] 783W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 784W

Paul Goggins: The information requested in relation Departmental Public Consultation to web browsers currently used by staff in the Northern Ireland Office is listed in the following table. Mr. Philip Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what consultations have been (i) Desktop machines (ii) Laptop computers carried out by his Department since July 2007; and at (A) Permanent (a) Internet Explorer (a) Internet Explorer what cost. [279345] Secretary (b) V6 (to be (b) V6 and V7 Mr. Woodward: Since July 2007 my Department, compatible with excluding Agencies and non-departmental public bodies, corporate conducted the consultations set out in the following applications) table. The table includes the cost where applicable.

(B) Chief (a) Internet Explorer (a) Internet Explorer Name of Consultation Cost (£) Information Officer Anonymous Registration - Protecting voters at risk in 0 (b) V6 (to be (b) V6 and V7 Northern Ireland -February 2008 compatible with Improving the Administration of Elections to the 0 corporate applications Northern Ireland Assembly-July 2008 Consultation on proposed draft Criminal Damage 2,235.83 (C) Head of (a) Internet Explorer (a) Internet Explorer (Compensation) (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Communications Order 2008 - June 2008 (b) V6 (to be (b)V6andV7 Proposed Northern Ireland Criminal Injuries 2,681.22 compatible with Compensation Scheme 2009 corporate applications Proposed draft of Sexual Offences (NT) Order - 2,171.26 November 2007 Draft Guidance on Public Protection Arrangements 240.00 (D) Head of (a) Internet Explorer (a) Internet Explorer Northern Ireland -May 2008 Finance Proposed draft Criminal Justice Order 2007 5,984.39 (b) V6 (to be (b)V6andV7 compatible with Investigation Code of Practice issued under POCA 0 corporate applications 2002 Search Code of Practice issued under POCA 2002 0 Mentally Disorder Offenders Victim Information 0 Departmental Manpower Scheme Fine default in NI 2,088.09 Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for Proposals for the reform of the law on murder, 2,126.77 Northern Ireland how many staff are based at each of manslaughter and infanticide Equality Impact Assessment and Guideline Principles 0 [285409] his Department’s buildings. for the Test Purchase of Alcohol Pre Policy Consultation Special Measures: an 70 Mr. Woodward: The number of staff based at each of evaluation and review 2009 my Department’s buildings is detailed in the following Alternatives to Prosecution: A Discussion Paper 109.30 table. Draft Strategy for the Management of Women 1,545 Offenders (inc consultation workshop) Buildings Staff Government’s Proposals for the Safety of Older People 8,094.78 took place between 14 June and 30 November 2007 Annexe A, Dundonald House 13 Consultation on Community Safety in Northern 28,771.62 Ballymena Chambers 64 Ireland took place between 27 October 2008 and 9 Belfast Chambers/Laganside 177 February 2009 Castle Buildings 133 The Explosive Amendment Regulations (NI) 2008 356.54 Foyle Chambers 43 Manufacture and Storage of Explosives (Amendment) 92.52 Hillsborough Castle 24 Regulations (NI) 2009 Hillview Buildings 28 Knockview Buildings 88 Departmental Surveys Lagan House 38 Linum Chambers 133 Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Lisburn Chambers 93 Ireland how much was spent by his Department on staff Massey House 79 surveys in (a) 2007 and (b) 2008; and which companies Millbank 70 were contracted to carry out the surveys. [287562] Millenium House 34 Omagh Chambers 59 Paul Goggins: The Northern Ireland Office did not Royal Courts of Justice, Belfast 79 carry out any staff surveys in either 2007 or 2008. Stormont House 29 Stormont House Annexe 55 Departmental Work Experience Stormont House Bungalow 21 Unit 2 Walled Garden 19 Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Windsor House 55 Ireland how many work placements his Department Other buildings occupied by less 5 provided to (a) school pupils, (b) university students than five staff and (c) graduates in each of the last five years. [287477] 785W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 786W

Paul Goggins: I refer the hon. Member to the answer Orange Order I gave on 14 May 2009, Official Report, column 876W. Festivals and Special Occasions Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what recent discussions he has had with representatives of the Orange Order. [287487] Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how much his Department spent on Paul Goggins: Ministers regularly engage with a range marking (a) St Patrick’s Day and (b) the Twelfth in of organisations including the Orange Order. The last each of the last five years. [287680] meeting held with representatives of the order was in April 2009. Paul Goggins: The Department has not incurred any spend in the past five years on marking either St. Patrick’s Organised Crime Day or the Twelfth. Fuels: Smuggling Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland with reference to the cases referred to in the Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Organised Crime Task Force (OCTF) Report 2009 where Northern Ireland how many people in Northern assets were recovered, what the names were of the Ireland were convicted of offences relating to (a) fuel persons losing assets; what the alleged criminality was smuggling and (b) fuel laundering in the last in each case; which OCTF agency led each action; what 12 months. [287489] the monetary value of assets recovered was in each case; on what date action was started in the courts to recover Paul Goggins: The most up to date details for oils the assets in each case; how each case was concluded; fraud prosecutions were published in Her Majesty’s what the overall monetary value was of the assets Revenue and Customs autumn performance report 2008. originally frozen in each case; and how much the person In the period 2007-08 there were three convictions in concerned was permitted to retain in each case. [287677] Northern Ireland for hydrocarbon oil offences. The HMRC autumn performance report does not differentiate Paul Goggins: The information requested has to be between types of hydrocarbon oils offences. collated from a number of OCTF partner agencies. I will therefore write to the hon. Member as soon as Northern Ireland Information Service: Manpower possible.

Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many people are employed in his Northern Ireland what the monetary value of assets Department’s Northern Ireland Information Service. recovered from organised crime in Northern Ireland [286425] was in each of the last five years. [286872]

Mr. Woodward: There are 29.5 people employed in Paul Goggins: I will write to the hon. Member as Northern Ireland Information Service (NIIS). NIIS soon as possible with the information requested. conduct all press office work on behalf of the Northern Ireland Office including an in-house media monitoring Parades service for Ministers, senior officials in the Northern Ireland Civil Service and a range of external stakeholders. Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Staff within Information Service also have responsibility Ireland what estimate he has made of the number of for any premises related issues that concern Block B, people who (a) marched at, (b) were spectators at and Castle Buildings. (c) protested against the parades which took place in Northern Ireland on 12 July 2009. [287880] Northern Ireland Policing Board: Irish Language Paul Goggins: The information requested is not available. Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many members of the public Police Service of Northern Ireland attended the most recent meeting of the Policing Board held in Irish. [287656] Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (1) what his estimate is of the cost of Paul Goggins: That is an operational matter for the policing the 12 July events in 2009; [287534] Northern Ireland Policing Board, which is independent (2) how many (a) uninsured and (b) untaxed of Government. The hon. Gentleman may wish to write vehicles were (i) involved in an accident and (ii) used in to the Chief Executive of the Policing Board. a crime in Northern Ireland in the last five years; Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for [287535] Northern Ireland what the cost has been of holding (3) how much the Police Service of Northern Ireland meetings of the Policing Board in Irish. [287657] spent on offsetting its carbon dioxide emissions in each of the last five years; [287564] Paul Goggins: That is an operational matter for the (4) how many pieces of body armour the Police Northern Ireland Policing Board, which is independent Service of Northern Ireland owns; and how many such of Government. The hon. Gentleman may wish to write pieces were (a) purchased and (b) reported (i) lost and to the Chief Executive of the Policing Board. (ii) stolen in each month of the last five years; [287565] 787W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 788W

(5) what the average Police Service of Northern (25) how many (a) full-time and (b) part-time Ireland response time to an emergency call was in each Police Service of Northern Ireland officers there are of of the policing districts in Northern Ireland in the each rank; [287640] latest period for which figures are available; [287566] (26) how many recruits to the Police Service of (6) how many armoured Land Rovers are (a) in Northern Ireland since 2004 had previous policing operation and (b) in reserve with the Police Service of experience; [287647] Northern Ireland; [287568] (27) how many recruits to the Police Service of (7) what percentage of emergency calls to the Police Northern Ireland of each (a) religion and (b) country Service of Northern Ireland were centrally cleared before of residence there were in each month of the last two a response team was sent out in the last 12 months; years; [287648] [287569] (28) what plans there are to introduce mounted (8) how many Police Service of Northern Ireland police in Northern Ireland; [287649] firearms have been reported (a) stolen and (b) lost in (29) what discussions he has had on proposals to each month of the last five years; [287585] introduce mounted police in Northern Ireland; [287651] (9) how many tonnes of fertiliser the Police Service (30) which duties accounted for the highest proportion of Northern Ireland seized in the last 12 months; of overtime accrued by Police Service of Northern [287586] Ireland officers in the last 12 months; [287652] (10) how many (a) armoured and (b) unarmoured (31) how much was spent on overtime for Police vehicles the Police Service of Northern Ireland operates; Service of Northern Ireland officers for (a) counter- [287609] terrorism duties and (b) other duties in each of the last (11) for how many days Police Service of Northern five years; [287653] Ireland (a) helicopters and (b) fixed-wing aircraft (32) what percentage of the Police Service of have been out of service for maintenance and repairs in Northern Ireland budget was spent on overtime in the last 12 months; [287610] 2008-09; [287654] (12) how many (a) helicopters and (b) fixed-wing (33) how many incidents of (a) violence and (b) aircraft the Police Service of Northern Ireland other crime were reported against ambulance personnel operates; [287611] whilst on duty in Northern Ireland in each month of (13) how many times the Police Service of Northern the last five years; [287660] Ireland has hired (a) helicopters and (b) aircraft in the (34) how many incidents of (a) violent and (b) last two years; and at what cost; [287612] other crime were reported against fire service personnel (14) what damage Police Service of Northern Ireland whilst on duty in Northern Ireland in each of the last (a) helicopters and (b) fixed-wing aircraft have five years; [287661] sustained from criminal activity in the last 12 months; (35) how many officers recruited to the Police Service [287614] of Northern Ireland in the last 12 months can speak (15) what the cost of licensing a personal protection (a) Irish and (b) Ulster Scots; [287664] weapon is; [287618] (36) how much the Police Service of Northern (16) how many personal protection weapon Ireland spent on translating documents into (a) Irish applications there were in each month of the last five and (b) Ulster Scots in the last 12 months; [287665] years; [287620] (37) how many people are employed in the personal (17) for what average length of time personal protection weapon licensing department; [287669] protection weapons were held in the latest period for (38) what the average (a) length of time and (b) cost which figures are available; [287621] was for processing a personal protection weapon (18) how many personal protection weapons were application in the latest period for which figures are (a) lost and (b) stolen in each month of the last five available; [287670] years; [287622] (39) how many Police Service of Northern Ireland (19) how many personal protection weapons officers have been sent out alone on the beat in the last applications were refused in each month of the last five 12 months; [287984] years; [287624] (40) how many new recruits to the Police Service of (20) how many personal protection weapons were Northern Ireland since 2004 have had criminal convictions of each type. [288690] issued in each month of the last five years; [287625] (21) how many officers are based in the Police Paul Goggins: These are operational matters for the Service of Northern Ireland headquarters; [287627] Chief Constable. I have asked him to reply directly to (22) how many Police Service of Northern Ireland the hon. Member, and copies of his letters will be officers are based in each of the policing districts in placed in the Library of the House. Northern Ireland; [287628] (23) how many Police Service of Northern Ireland Police Service of Northern Ireland: Aircraft warrant cards have been reported stolen or missing in the last 12 months; [287635] Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern (24) how many members of the Police Service of Ireland what arrangements are in place for the Army Northern Ireland have received specialist training in and the RAF to provide aerial support to the Police (a) serious public disorder and (b) counter-terrorist Service of Northern Ireland; and how many times in the activities; [287639] last two years such support has been provided. [287613] 789W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 790W

Paul Goggins: Military support is available to the Number of licences refused Police Service of Northern Ireland under the Military Assistance to the Civil Power arrangements. 2004 0 The number of times that the support has been 2005 0 requested in the last two years is an operational matter 2006 0 for the Chief Constable. I have asked him to reply 2007 0 directly to the hon. Gentleman, and will arrange for a 2008 5 copy of the letter to be placed in the Library of the House. Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many security companies have Police Service of Northern Ireland: Reserve Forces been licensed in Northern Ireland in each of the last five years. [287645] Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many pieces of correspondence Paul Goggins: The number of companies licensed are he has received in the last 12 months (a) in favour of as follows: and (b) against maintaining the level of the police full-time reserve. [287606] Number of companies licensed

Paul Goggins: As the information requested is not 2004 92 held in the format requested, to answer this question 2005 101 would incur disproportionate costs. 2006 95 2007 115 Political Directorate: Manpower 2008 132

Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many people were employed in Northern Ireland how many new security staff notified his Department’s political directorate at the latest date to his Department under the provisions of paragraph for which figures are available. [286426] 13(1) of Schedule 13 to the Terrorism Act 2000 failed vetting; and for what reason in each case. [287673] Paul Goggins: On 1 July 2009 there were 124 people employed in the political directorate of the Northern Paul Goggins: There were no new security staff notified Ireland Office. under the provisions of paragraph 13(1) of schedule 13 The political directorate provides parliamentary and to the Terrorism Act 2000 that failed vetting. private office support to Ministers as well as policy The Terrorism Act 2000 provisions fell in 2007 and support for the NI political process and other issues were replaced by interim arrangements as set out in including elections, human rights and public inquiries. schedule 6 to the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) In preparation for the completion of devolution, the Act 2007. directorate, which will form the core of the future NIO, has also taken management responsibility for relevant Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern corporate services. Ireland how many changes in security staff have been notified to his Department by private security companies Public Opinion in Northern Ireland as required under paragraph 13(1) of Schedule 13 to the Terrorism Act 2000 in each of the Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for last five years; what arrangements are in place for Northern Ireland how much his Department spent on vetting those staff; how many changed staff were vetted; (a) opinion polling, (b) focus groups and (c) other and on average how long each vetting took. [287674] forms of market research in each of the last five years; what surveys were commissioned; and what the Paul Goggins: The Terrorism Act 2000 provisions fell purpose was of each. [287561] in 2007 and were replaced by interim arrangements as set out in schedule 6 to the Justice and Security (Northern Paul Goggins: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply Ireland) Act 2007. The information requested regarding given to the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike changes to security staff is not readily available and Penning) on 27 March 2009, Official Report, columns could be compiled only at disproportionate cost. 782-84W. Under the Terrorism Act 2000 arrangements, the Secretary of State took into account a range of information Security Guards: Licensing from differing sources to determine if a company should be issued with a security licence. It was not the practice Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for to vet individual security staff under these arrangements. Northern Ireland how many times companies have been notified of the refusal of an application they have Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for made for a security licence in each of the last five years. Northern Ireland how many companies are licensed as [287643] private security companies in Northern Ireland under the provisions of paragraph 6 of Schedule 13 to the Paul Goggins: The numbers of companies notified of Terrorism Act 2000; and how many individuals are the refusal of a licence are as follows: recorded as employed in those companies. [287676] 791W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 792W

Paul Goggins: There are no companies licensed as Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern private security companies in Northern Ireland under Ireland how many people in Northern Ireland were the provisions of paragraph 6 of schedule 13 to the convicted of offences relating to punishment shootings Terrorism Act 2000. in the last 12 months. [287488] The Terrorism Act 2000 provisions fell in 2007 and were replaced by interim arrangements as set out in schedule 6 to the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Paul Goggins: The information is not available in the Act 2007. format requested. Conviction data are collated by offence, but there are no offences provided for by legislation that Swine Flu: Prisoners relate specifically to paramilitary-style shootings. Mr. Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State It is possible, however, to provide information on the for Northern Ireland (1) whether any cases of swine number of casualties resulting from paramilitary-style influenza have been diagnosed in the Northern Ireland shootings. In 2008-09, there were 20 such casualties, prison population; [287709] two of which were attributed to loyalists and 18 to (2) what contingency arrangements are in place to republicans. protect the health of staff in prisons in Northern Ireland in the event of cases of swine influenza among prisoners. [287710] Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (1) what steps are being taken to ensure the Paul Goggins: There have been no cases of swine security and safety of community halls in Northern influenza reported among prisoners or prison staff in Ireland; [287490] Northern Ireland. The Northern Ireland Prison Service (2) how many attacks involving (a) petrol bombs, (NIPS) is working in close partnership with the South (b) blast bombs, (c) paint bombs and (d) pipe bombs Eastern Health and Social Care Trust, the Public Health there were in Northern Ireland in each month of the Agency and other Health Service colleagues to prepare last five years; [287567] for a potential outbreak within the prison population. Pandemic Flu Contingency Plans have been developed (3) how many (a) petrol, (b) pipe, (c) blast and (d) and NIPS has a range of measures in place. The key paint bombs were recovered by the Police Service of objectives will be to minimise onward transmission of Northern Ireland in each of last 12 months; [287572] infection and maximise appropriate healthcare interventions. (4) how many members of dissident republican groups Advice on infection control is being kept up to date have been arrested in the last two years; [287573] throughout the prison estate and guidance for staff and prisoners has been issued. Infection control measures, (5) how many people have been arrested for offences including hand gel dispensers and enhanced cleaning in connection with the activities of loyalist paramilitary regimes, are in place. All three NIPS establishments groups in the last five years; [287574] have been supplied with stocks of personal protection (6) how many people arrested for offences in equipment (PPE) for both healthcare and operational connection with the activities of (a) dissident staff, and training for staff with regard to PPE is republican groups and (b) loyalist paramilitaries in the underway. Stocks of antivirals have been issued to each last 12 months had (i) a gun licence and (ii) licensed establishment, as well as additional medications for weapons at the time of arrest; [287575] managing the symptoms of swine flu, such as paracetamol, antibiotics and respiratory drugs. (7) how many legally-owned weapons have been confiscated in connection with (a) dissident republican Terrorism and (b) loyalist paramilitary activities in the last 12 months; [287576] Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what recent steps he has taken to (8) how many vehicles have been hijacked by (a) ensure the safety of Northern Ireland politicians from dissident republicans and (b) loyalist paramilitaries in threats to their personal safety from (a) dissident each of the last 12 months; [287577] republicans and (b) loyalist groups. [287484] (9) how many (a) attempted, (b) threatened and (c) Paul Goggins: Both the Chief Constable and I take completed attacks there have been by dissident seriously the security of all those in Northern Ireland republicans on police stations in Northern Ireland in considered to be at risk. In accordance with the State’s each of the last 12 months; [287578] Article 2 obligations, protection is provided commensurate (10) how many (a) attempted, (b) threatened and with the threat. I regularly discuss changes to the threat (c) completed attacks there have been by dissident profile with my security advisers. republicans on schools in Northern Ireland in each of Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern the last 12 months; [287579] Ireland what steps his Department is taking to reduce (11) how many (a) attempted, (b) threatened and the number of punishment shootings. [287485] (c) actual attacks there have been by dissident republicans on army bases in Northern Ireland in each of the last Paul Goggins: While the most recent IMC report 12 months; [287580] confirms that the number of shooting casualties is down on the preceding six months period, my Department (12) how many barrack buster mortars have been will continue to work with the PSNI and other agencies recovered by the Police Service of Northern Ireland in in an effort to reduce the level of such criminality. the last five years; [287582] 793W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 794W

(13) how many attacks by dissident republicans have (28) how many times Police Service of Northern involved barrack buster mortars in the last five years; Ireland officers (a) drew and (b) fired weapons in each [287583] month of the last five years; [287668] (14) how many video cameras have been seized by (29) how many threats have been issued by (a) the Police Service of Northern Ireland from dissident loyalist paramilitaries and (b) dissident republicans republicans in the last 12 months; [287605] against former members of the Police Service of Northern Ireland in each of the last five years. [287679] (15) how many times (a) the Army and (b) the RAF have been asked to provide assistance to the Police Paul Goggins: As these are operational matters for Service of Northern Ireland in the last 12 months; the Chief Constable, I have asked him to reply directly [287615] to the hon. Gentleman, and will arrange for a copy of (16) how many police vehicles in Northern Ireland his letters to be placed in the Library of the House. have been (a) damaged and (b) taken out of service due to criminal acts in each month of the last five years; Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for and what the cost to the public purse has been; [287616] Northern Ireland what his estimate is of the number of (17) how many death threats were issued to former rocket launchers held by dissident republicans. [287584] members of the (a) Police Service of Northern Ireland, (b) Royal Ulster Constabulary and (c) Ulster Paul Goggins: It would be inappropriate to comment Defence Regiment by (i) dissident republicans and (ii) on what are security and intelligence matters. loyalist paramilitaries in each month of the last four years; [287626] Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what steps have been taken to protect (18) what damage has been sustained by Land Police Service of Northern Ireland officers whilst they Rovers used by the Police Service of Northern Ireland are off duty. [287634] whilst on patrol in Northern Ireland as a result of paramilitary activity in each of the last 12 months; Paul Goggins: Both the Chief Constable and I take [287629] seriously the security of all those in Northern Ireland (19) what damage has been sustained by soft top considered to be at risk. In accordance with the State’s vehicles used by the Police Service of Northern Ireland Article 2 obligations, protection is provided commensurate whilst on patrol in Northern Ireland as a result of with the threat. I regularly discuss changes to the threat paramilitary activity in each of the last 12 months; profile with my security advisers. [287630] Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for (20) how many threats have been issued by (a) Northern Ireland what his most recent estimate is of dissident republicans and (b) loyalist paramilitaries the number of individuals involved in (a) dissident against off-duty members of the Police Service of republican activity and (b) loyalist paramilitary Northern Ireland in the last 12 months; [287631] activity. [287642] (21) what recorded attempts have been made by (a) dissident republicans and (b) loyalist paramilitary groups Paul Goggins: It would be inappropriate to comment to acquire weapons and munitions using legitimate gun on what are security and intelligence matters. licence holders in the last 12 months; [287632] (22) how many threats have been issued by (a) Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for dissident republicans and (b) loyalist paramilitary groups Northern Ireland what recent representations he has against named individuals (i) in the Police Service of received on paramilitary punishment shootings; and if Northern Ireland and (ii) not in the Police Service of he will make a statement. [287985] Northern Ireland in each of the last 12 months; [287633] Paul Goggins: Ministers receive representations relating (23) how many Police Service of Northern Ireland to criminal activity, including punishment attacks, on a officers have been injured by paramilitary activity regular basis. Where offences have occurred they are whilst on duty in each month of the last two years; actively investigated by the PSNI. [287636] (24) how many times Police Service of Northern Weapons Ireland officers have come under (a) attack and (b) attempted attack from an explosive device whilst (i) on Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for duty and (ii) off duty in the last 12 months; [287637] Northern Ireland how many personal protection (25) how many times in the last 12 months Police weapon applications which were refused in each month Service of Northern Ireland officers have come under of the last five years were subject to (a) successful and gun fire whilst (a) on duty and (b) off duty; [287638] (b) unsuccessful appeals against the refusal. [287619] (26) what percentage of calls answered by the Police Paul Goggins: The following table indicates the number Service of Northern Ireland related to counter-terrorism of appeals relating to PPWs that were allowed or refused activities in the latest period for which figures are available; in each month since January 2004. In March 2009 the [287641] decision was taken not to make any further decisions on (27) how many police dogs were (a) injured and (b) appeals until the outcome of the PSNI’s internal review killed as a result of paramilitary activity in each month was known. I am now considering those appeals that of the last five years; [287650] were suspended during that period. 795W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 796W

Appeal Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec

2004 Allowed ———————————— Refused ————— 1———— 1 2

2005 Allowed —————————— 1— Refused 1 2——————2131

2006 Allowed ————————— 1 2— Refused —2111————— 1—

2007 Allowed —————— 1————— Refused — —21217—————

2008 Allowed — 1————————— 1 Refused — 1 — —113——11—

2009 Allowed ———————————— Refused 1 1——————————

Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Tourism Industry Northern Ireland how many personal protection weapons are held in Northern Ireland. [287623] 16. Mr. Crabb: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what assessment his Department Paul Goggins: The Chief Constable of the Police has made of the effect on the tourism industry of Service of Northern Ireland has informed me that there changes to the furnished holiday lettings rules. [287452] were 3,224 personal protection weapons held on firearm certificates in Northern Ireland at the end of June 2009. Barbara Follett: My Department has been working with the tourism and hospitality industry to produce a detailed assessment of the impact that the changes CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT made to the furnished holiday lettings rules in this year’s Budget could have on the 50,000 individuals who Bingo Industry declare income from them each year. Although a range of other reliefs continue to be 14. Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for available under property income rules, I am making Culture, Media and Sport what recent representations representations on behalf of the industry to the Exchequer he has received on the future of the bingo industry; and Secretary to the Treasury on this matter. if he will make a statement. [287450] Local and Regional Newspapers Mr. Sutcliffe: We have not received any recent representations on the future of the bingo industry, but I am aware of such representations being made to my 17. Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Culture, Media and Sport what support his Department plans to provide to local and regional newspapers during We recognise the important social role bingo clubs the recession. [287453] play in many communities and continue to engage with the industry on a range of issues affecting the state of the sector. Mr. Simon: The Government have taken action to support local and regional newspapers including a local Royal Opera House: Thurrock media summit held in April; a recent OFT review of the media merger rules; an invitation to the audit commission 15. Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State to look at local authority free sheets; Killian Pretty’s for Culture, Media and Sport what recent discussions recommendations on planning and advertising and a he has had on future uses of the Royal Opera House commitment in the Digital Britain White Paper to production campus in Thurrock. [287451] introduce independently funded news consortia which would be broadcast and syndicated more widely across Barbara Follett: I have had no discussions on the the local and regional news environment. future uses of the Royal Opera House production in Thurrock. Community Sports However, I have recently discussed with the Minister for Skills (Kevin Brennan) at the Department for Business 18. Mr. Allen: To ask the Secretary of State for Innovation and Skills the progress of the capital bid Culture, Media and Sport what estimate he has made that the Creative and Cultural Nationals Skills Academy of levels of revenue and capital funding for community has put in for a national training centre in Thurrock in sport projects in the regions in the period to 2012; and partnership with the Royal Opera House. if he will make a statement. [287454] 797W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 798W

Mr. Sutcliffe: The new Sport England strategy focuses Digital Broadcasting: Northern Ireland investment predominantly through the national governing bodies of sport. This funding is used to deliver Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Government’s key community sport objectives across Culture, Media and Sport what steps have been taken the country. £480 million has been made available to to prepare Northern Ireland for digital switchover. these national governing bodies for the period between [287476] 2008-09 and 2012-13. A further £220 million of mixed and open funding will also come on line throughout the Mr. Bradshaw: As digital switchover in Northern period. Ireland in 2012 draws closer, Digital UK will run a Pub Closures communication programme about switchover and what people can do to ensure that they receive digital television in the area covered by the Ulster TV region. 19. Mr. Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what estimate he has made In respect of digital radio, we will be working with of the number of public houses which have closed in broadcasters and transmission providers in the coming the last 12 months; and if he will make a statement. months to consider how and when the coverage of Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) will be extended [287455] and improved across all parts of the UK. We plan to Mr. Sutcliffe: The DCMS Statistical Bulletin on Alcohol, deliver the Digital Radio upgrade programme by the Entertainment and Late Night Refreshment does not end of 2015, as set out in the recently published Digital identify the number of pubs in England and Wales; but Britain White Paper, but the top-level principle of the rather the number of premises authorising the sale or programme is that it should not result in reduced access supply of alcohol by means of a premises licence or a to radio services. club premises certificate. We understand that CGA Hotels: DVD Strategy, the pub and drinks market analyst, which tracks the pub closure rate on behalf of the British Beer and Pub Association, currently estimates that between Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for 51 and 53 pubs a week are closing. At 53 per week, the Culture, Media and Sport what recent discussions he pub closure level would equate to around 2,750 per has had with VisitEngland on its guidance to hoteliers year. on the DVD concierge licence. [287906] Cheshire Barbara Follett: VisitEngland recently explained in its ‘Quality Edge’ magazine (which is distributed to all Mr. Timpson: To ask the Secretary of State for properties quality assessed by VisitEngland) that under Culture, Media and Sport what sites (a) he and (b) copyright law businesses such as bed and breakfast Ministers in his Department plan to visit in Crewe and accommodation should purchase a licence if DVDs are Nantwich constituency in July and August 2009. made available to guests. [287716] I have had no discussions with VisitEngland about this matter. Mr. Bradshaw: We have no current plans to do so. Tourism Departmental Accountancy Geraldine Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what steps he is taking to Culture, Media and Sport when he expects to publish encourage people to take a greater proportion of their his Department’s resource accounts for 2008-09. holidays in the UK. [287839] [287338] Barbara Follett: In partnership with other Government Mr. Bradshaw: The Department’s annual report and Departments, the tourism industry and the wider public resource accounts for 2008-09 will be published by the sector, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport end of July 2009. (DCMS) has a clear and coherent policy framework for industry growth. This includes branding and marketing Departmental Postal Services improvement led by VisitBritain; the National Tourism Skills Strategy; and work across Britain on driving up Mr. Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, product quality through the accommodation grading Media and Sport how much his Department spent on schemes. Royal Mail services in each of the last two years. Central Government are committed to providing £130 [288740] million between 2008 and 2012 for marketing Britain overseas and England to the British. In addition, between Mr. Bradshaw: In the last two financial years the £3.3 million and £3.5 million is provided annually to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport has paid the Regional Development Agencies for tourism support. following amounts to the Royal Mail: In addition to this, Government have committed £350 million to helping small businesses get the training they £ need to get through the economic downturn. This 2007-08 35,538.40 investment is across the economy but we encourage 2008-09 22,677.86 small and medium-sized enterprises in the tourism industry to take full advantage of it. 799W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 800W

Specifically, in recent months VisitBritain has emphasised Mr. Bradshaw: I have no current plans to visit Blaenavon its “Value Britain” message, which aims to impress on Industrial Landscape World Heritage Site, but I will be potential overseas visitors the wide range of affordable undertaking a series of regional visits in the coming accommodation, transport and attractions available in months and hope to be able to include some of the Britain. VisitEngland has also launched its “Enjoy Every UK’s World Heritage Sites. The Minister for Culture Minute, Enjoy England” campaign, designed to inspire and Tourism recently visited Stonehenge. and stimulate consumers to take day visits, short breaks and holidays in England this year based on the range of experiences, fantastic quality and value on offer. LEADER OF THE HOUSE Tourism: Morecambe Damian McBride Geraldine Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what funding from the Mr. Maude: To ask the Leader of the House on what public purse has been made available for tourism date she last met Mr Damian McBride in the course of regeneration projects in Morecambe and Lunesdale her official duties. [287407] constituency in the last five years. [287833] Ms Harman: I have had no contact with Damian Barbara Follett: I have been informed by the North McBride since his resignation from the post of special West Development Agency (NWDA), that spending on adviser to the Prime Minister. tourism regeneration projects in Morecambe and Lunesdale in the last five years is as follows: Glasgow

Funding John Mason: To ask the Leader of the House Project Description (£) whether she plans to visit Glasgow on official business Midland Hotel Redevelopment of Midland Hotel, 4,070,523 during the summer adjournment. [288925] Morecambe Morecambe The Whoop Hall, Refurbishment of redundant rooms to 6,221 Barbara Keeley: My right hon. Friend has no plans, Burrow, Kirkby create four letting bedrooms Lonsdale at this time, to visit Glasgow on official business. Carnforth Market Partnership launch event and retail 42,667 Town—Winter promotion of Carnforth retail centre Members: Allowances Promotion Scheme Winter Gardens Feasibility work only to allow for HLF 15,000 Morecambe bid Mr. Maude: To ask the Leader of the House how Winter Gardens, Detailed Planning Stage—Various 298,381 much has been spent under the communications Morecambe technical reports to support funding allowance in each year since it was established. [287210] applications Seaside Square— Site clearance and improvements to land 226,253 site clearance adjacent to the Midland hotel Barbara Keeley: The Communications Allowance— Total — 4,659,045 renamed the Communications Expenditure on 1 April 2009—was established on 1 April 2007. Since then, the following amounts have been spent in each financial Winter Gardens Project: Morecambe year:

Geraldine Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Amount (£000) Culture, Media and Sport what funding from the 2007-08 4,699 public purse has been given to the Winter Gardens 2008-09 5,126 Project in Morecambe since its inception. [287834] Mr. Maude: To ask the Leader of the House when Barbara Follett: The Single Regeneration Budget (SRB) she plans to introduce proposals to amend controls on funding the Winter Gardens in Morecambe started in the communications allowance payable to hon. 1996 and was managed by Government office for the Members to take into account the pre-candidacy north-west. The SRB Programme was passed to the spending limits introduced by the Political Parties and North West Development Agency (NWDA) to manage, Elections Bill. [287362] upon its inception in 1999. I am informed by the NWDA that the total SRB funding between 1996 and 2001 was Barbara Keeley: My right hon. Friend hopes to bring £546,864, and that additional investments totalling £313,381 forward the necessary amendments after the summer were made by the NWDA after the closure of the adjournment. specific SRB. Members: Correspondence World Heritage Sites Sir George Young: To ask the Leader of the House Mr. Paul Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for when she plans to reply to the letters of 2 June and Culture, Media and Sport what plans he has to visit 6 July from the right hon. Member for North West (a) Blaenavon and (b) other UK World Heritage sites. Hampshire on the rules on registration of earnings. [288802] [287811] 801W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 802W

Barbara Keeley: My fright hon. Friend the Leader of TDC inform us that by March 2009, 15 authorities the House has recently met with House authorities on had met six, seven or eight of the criteria, these were: this issue and will reply in full in light of the outcome of Brent, Hackney, Havering, Hounslow, Kingston upon that meeting. Thames, Southwark, Tower Hamlets, Darlington, Political Parties and Elections Bill Northumberland, Redcar and Cleveland, St. Helens, Warrington, Southampton, Kirklees, Wiltshire Mr. Hurd: To ask the Leader of the House whether Three non-pathfinder local authorities had met less she plans to bring forward proposals to amend controls than six criteria, these were: City of London, Oldham, on expenditure from the communications allowance Sheffield. during the pre-candidacy regulated period to be The remaining 111 non-pathfinders authorities met introduced on commencement of the provisions in the all the criteria. Political Parties and Elections Bill. [289079] TDC also report that as of the end of June 2009, 122 Barbara Keeley: My right hon. Friend hopes to bring of the 129 non-pathfinder areas had met all nine criteria, forward the necessary amendments after the summer a further six had met eight criteria, while one authority adjournment. had yet to meet four criteria. The short break national programme has now moved Scottish Grand Committee beyond the preparation stage and all areas have received short break funding. Readiness criteria are not being Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Leader of the House applied to the 2010-11 financial year, however TDC what consideration the Government has given since continue to concentrate their resource on those authorities November 2003 to arranging for a sitting of the Scottish where progress is slowest, and are providing remedial Grand Committee; and if she will make a statement. support where readiness criteria remain unmet. [288410] Barbara Keeley: The Government keep the matter of Education Maintenance Allowance Grand Committees under constant review. My right hon. Friend the Leader and I are happy to hear any Joan Ryan: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, suggestions, from my hon. Friend, on the matter. Schools and Families what measures his Department Written Questions has in place to reassess a student’s eligibility for the education maintenance allowance in the event of a Sandra Gidley: To ask the Leader of the House what change in the student’s financial circumstances. [287046] recent assessment she has made of the quality of answers given by Ministers to parliamentary questions Mr. Iain Wright: For most young people, eligibility for written answer. [288401] for education maintenance allowance (EMA) is subject to an assessment of their household income based on Barbara Keeley: My right hon. Friend and I keep the the financial year prior to the academic year in which quality of answers given to written parliamentary questions they start their course. A successful assessment provides under constant review. a young person with a guaranteed entitlement of up to We welcome the recent report of the Procedure three years of EMA on the same rate regardless of Committee on this subject and will be carefully considering whether their income increases. If there is a drop in the proposals in that report. income from one year to the next then a young person may apply to be reassessed for the subsequent academic year. They could be assessed as eligible for EMA where CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES they were not previously, or an increased rate of it. They would receive the EMA guarantee based on the Children: Disabled rate awarded following the most recent assessment. There are a limited number of exceptional circumstances Mark Hunter: To ask the Secretary of State for in which a young person may apply to be reassessed for Children, Schools and Families (1) what steps he has EMA during the academic year. Those circumstances taken to ensure that all English local authorities meet are: the readiness criteria for the distribution of Aiming (i) someone whose income was taken into account in determining High for Disabled Children short breaks funding in financial eligibility has died; 2010-11; [287707] (ii) a person whose income was taken into account in determining (2) which local authorities did not meet the readiness financial eligibility has experienced a reduction in income due to criteria for the distribution of Aiming High for Disabled their own disability, or the disability of any other person for Children short breaks funding by March 2009. [287708] whom he or she has responsibility as primary carer (disability means as defined in the Disability Discrimination Act 1995); Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department has contracted (iii) Since the assessment of income was made, the young with the organisation Together for Disabled Children person has become estranged from their parents, guardians or (TDC) to support local authorities and Primary Care someone else whose income was taken into account in determining Trusts in improving short break services. financial eligibility; Early in 2008 The Department asked those local (iv) The young person has become a parent with responsibility authorities that fell outside of short break pathfinder for their own child. areas to undertake preparatory work on short break The financial needs of young people can be affected service reform, ahead of receipt of major new funding by a range of circumstances, including reductions in from April 2009. Nine criteria were set against which household income due to redundancy, or reduced working robust preparation could be measured. hours. Other mechanisms exist to help with the costs of 803W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 804W supporting young people aged 16 to 19 in learning. population, including levels of deprivation, of which Child Benefit provides support for parents regardless of free school meals is one of the indicators. DCSF guidance income, and Tax Credits are designed to tailor support also states that extended activities and services will be to current circumstances and to be responsive to changing of particular benefit to disabled children and young needs. people and those with special educational needs. In addition to the support provided to families, As part of this funding, there is over £200 million of discretionary learner support funds are made available extended services subsidy. This is focused on supporting via the Learning and Skills Council to colleges and the access to extra-curricular activities by disadvantaged Local Authorities. This funding is provided to enable children, including children eligible for free school meals schools and colleges, using their discretion, to help (FSM). The DCSF has issued the message to local individual learners facing hardship and financial barriers authorities that all subsidy funding is to be passed to to learning that are not addressed through other schools to help increase the level of participation for mechanisms. This funding can be used to respond to those children. The DCSF has, working with the Council any hardship needs of learners that may arise through for Disabled Children, issued guidance: “Extending sudden changes in circumstance. Inclusion—Access for disabled children and young people to extended schools and children’s centres: a development Extended Schools: Finance manual”, emphasising the importance of making extended services accessible to all children. This is available from Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, www.teachernet.gov.uk Schools and Families what guidance his Department Residence and Guardianship Orders has issued to local education authorities on the distribution of extended schools funding in respect of Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for children (a) with special needs and (b) entitled to free Children, Schools and Families how many (a) school meals. [286237] residency and (b) guardianship orders there were in force in each local authority social services area in each Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Government are committed of the last five years. [286436] to every school providing access to a core offer of extended services and has provided significant funding Bridget Prentice: I have been asked to reply. to support the delivery of extended services, including The number of residency and special guardianship committing over £1 billion in the period 2008-09 to orders made in England and Wales over the last five 2010-11. Funding is allocated to local authorities. DCSF years are contained in the following table. guidance states that local authorities should work closely In the majority of cases individuals, not local authorities, with their schools and other children’s service partners apply for these orders in private law proceedings. Special through the children’s trust to develop and agree strategic guardianship orders came into force on 30 December plans for using the extended services funding. Local 2005 and are provided for in sections 14A to 14G of the authorities are strongly encouraged to devolve as much Children Act 1989. of their extended schools funding to schools as possible. A court may resolve a local authority’s public law In determining allocations, local authorities are encouraged application by making a residence or special guardianship to consider the needs and context of schools and their order to a named individual.

Residence and Special Guardianship Orders for England and Wales Private Law Public Law Residence Special Guardianship Residence Special Guardianship

2007 23,703 451 2,529 1,096 2006 22,991 730 2,700 176 2005 26,253 n/a 2,580 n/a 2004 31,878 n/a 2,976 n/a 2003 31,966 n/a 2,866 n/a Note: These figures are for ‘Orders made’ not orders in force

School Meals greatest need. Bids totalling £49,908 million were received in this first round and approved from the following local authorities: Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Children, Local authority Schools and Families which local authorities have West Sussex applied for the exceptional capital funding for new kitchens in schools announced in December 2007; Swindon which local authorities have received such funding; and N E Lincolnshire if he will make a statement. [286960] Lincolnshire North Somerset Dorset Ms Diana R. Johnson: The Department announced in 2006 that it would make £150 million targeted capital Wigan funding available in the next spending review period to Harrow local authorities to build new kitchens in areas of Hillingdon 805W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 806W

Plymouth on 9 June, we tabled amendments to the Bill which Buckinghamshire represent a return to the level of protection given against Bournemouth pregnancy and maternity discrimination under the Sex Kingston upon Thames Discrimination Act 1975 (as amended). These amendments were briefly debated on 16 June and agreed, and now Northamptonshire stand part of the Bill. Worcestershire The Bill makes absolutely clear that breastfeeding Bids from Gloucestershire and Hull did not meet the mothers are protected from sex discrimination in relation criteria. Payments to successful LAs are being phased to provision of services to the public, whatever their over the three years 2008 to 2011 according to the needs baby’s age. So a woman who is breastfeeding her baby of the individual authorities. in a restaurant or on a bus cannot lawfully be asked to The Government announced in December 2007 that leave, or get off, for that reason. At present we have no local authorities could bid for the remaining £100 million plans to bring forward proposals to provide a legal right to support the improvement of kitchens and dining for women to breastfeed in public places. areas in order to improve school lunch take up. Bids were received from 133 authorities and totalled Departmental Operating Costs just under £200 million. Although the bids varied significantly, all of them met our criteria. It was therefore Sammy Wilson: To ask the Minister for Women and decided to apply an across the board cut of just under Equality what the running costs of the Government 50 per cent. so that all LAs received a proportionate Equalities Office have been in each year since its amount of their bid. establishment. [286942]

Michael Jabez Foster: Since its establishment on 12 SOLICITOR-GENERAL October 2007, the running costs for the Government Members Constituency Work: Hemsworth Equalities Office have been: Expenditure Jon Trickett: To ask the Solicitor-General if the £000 Attorney-General will meet the hon. Member for 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Hemsworth to discuss a constituency issue. [287705] Pay costs 3,118 3,996 5,142 The Solicitor-General: A meeting has been scheduled Non-pay costs 339 1,212 2,701 with the Attorney-General. Total 3457 5,208 7,843 Patrick Brendon Smith: Sentencing Equality Bill Mr. Timpson: To ask the Solicitor-General whether the Attorney-General considered lodging an appeal Mr. Evennett: To ask the Minister for Women and against the sentence imposed on Patrick Brendon Smith Equality what recent representations she has received by Preston Crown Court in October 2008. [288093] from religious organisations on the provisions of the The Solicitor-General: Mr. Smith was convicted of Equality Bill. [288122] attempting to abduct a child and was sentenced to 12 months’ imprisonment. Section 36 of the Criminal Justice Michael Jabez Foster: My officials and I have received Act 1988 empowers the Attorney-General to refer certain a number of representations from religion and belief sentences to the Court of Appeal for review. The offence organisations and individuals since the introduction of of child abduction is not an offence to which section 36 the Equality Bill in April this year. applies and the Attorney-General could not therefore Since April there have been meetings with the Catholic consider referring the case. Bishops Conference of England and Wales, the General Synod of the Church of England and the National Secular Society. WOMEN AND EQUALITY In that same period we have also received 45 letters Breast Feeding from religious or belief organisations and members of the public on the provisions within the Bill. The main Mrs. Gillan: To ask the Minister for Women and issues raised were: Equality what recent representations she has received The public sector equality duty; on the proposals in the Equality Bill in relation to a The occupational requirements employment exception; mother breastfeeding in a public place who is asked to Catholic adoption agencies; (a) leave that place by a person in authority and (b) The harassment provisions; stop breastfeeding by a member of the public. [288049] The curbing of religious freedom and expression; and Michael Jabez Foster: Following Second Reading of A perceived hierarchy of rights where some protected characteristics the Equality Bill, interested organisations raised concerns take precedence over others. that, as drafted, the Bill reduced the existing protection In addition to the representations mentioned above, a against discrimination for pregnant women and new number of religious and belief organisations made mothers. This drew our attention to an unintended submissions to the House of Commons’ Public Bill consequence of the drafting which would have potentially Committee on the Equality Bill. The Catholic Bishops’ allowed discrimination against pregnant women or new Conference of England and Wales and the British Humanist mothers if this could be shown to be reasonable. Therefore Association presented written evidence. Oral evidence 807W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 808W was presented by the British Humanist Association, the Departmental Data Protection Board of Deputies of British Jews, the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales, the General Synod of the Church of England, the National Secular Society Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for and the Muslim Women’s Network. International Development what databases which will be managed by his Department and which will contain personal information are (a) under construction and Members: Correspondence (b) expected to go live in each of the next five years; and if he will make a statement. [286505] Sir John Stanley: To ask the Minister for Women and Equality when she plans to reply to the letter of 23 Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International February 2009 and 23 May 2009 from the right hon. Development (DFID) has no current plans to build new Member for Tonbridge and Malling on behalf of Mr databases containing personal information. Colin Packman. [287298] We do expect to replace existing databases used for Michael Jabez Foster: I am sorry that the right hon. internal administration of human resources and Member has not received a response. correspondence within the next five years. The office for the Minister for Women and Equality had no record of receiving the correspondence referred Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for to. Following contact with the right hon. Member’s International Development how many (a) attempts office, the Government Equalities Office has now received and (b) successful attempts were made to gain unauthorised a copy the relevant correspondence, and I will reply by access to each (i) database and (ii) ICT system run by the end of July. his Department in each of the last five years; and if he will make a statement. [286544] Terrorism Bill Mr. Michael Foster: It is not in the interests of the UK’s national security for departments to confirm Mr. Grieve: To ask the Minister for Women and information on the number of attempts, successful or Equality what expenditure the Commission for Equality otherwise, to gain unauthorised access to departmental and Human Rights incurred on commissioning legal systems or databases. Such disclosure could undermine advice on the compliance of the Terrorism Bill with the the integrity and security of departmental systems and European Convention on Human Rights. [286780] thereby expose them to potential threats. The Department for International Development (DFID) Michael Jabez Foster: The Equality and Human Rights complies with the mandatory requirements of the Security Commission spent £9,603 (including VAT) on expert Policy Framework in relation to information security legal advice from counsel. including managing the risk of unauthorised access to ICT systems. Women and Work Commission

Meg Munn: To ask the Minister for Women and Departmental Work Experience Equality when she expects the Womenand Work Commission to report on the impact of the recommendations adopted Mr. Willis: To ask the Secretary of State for by the Government in response to the report of the International Development how many interns work in Commission in 2006. [287736] his Department; what terms of reference apply to their appointment; what remuneration they receive; and how Michael Jabez Foster: The Women and Work long on average an intern appointment lasts. [286821] Commission are due to publish their report on 29 July 2009. Mr. Michael Foster: The Department for International Development does not have an intern scheme.

INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Food Security Initiative Departmental Buildings Mr. Andrew Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how much funding the Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for UK has pledged to the new G8; what the timescale for International Development what properties his (a) that funding is; and whether this funding is additional Department and (b) Department’s non-departmental to existing funding provision. [287267] public bodies have sold in each of the last five years; and how many of these have been sold for housing development. [266495] Mr. Michael Foster: The UK announced £1.1 billion for Agriculture, Rural Development and Food Security Mr. Michael Foster: In the last five years, the Department over the period 2009-10 to 2011-12. for International Development and the non-departmental £370 million of this had previously been announced bodies it oversees have sold no property in the United in 2008-09 as part of the UK’s £900 million response to Kingdom. the food crisis. 809W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 810W

COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT defer payment of council tax for individual taxpayers, including pensioners. The details of such arrangements Aerials: Planning Permission are a matter for individual local authorities.

Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Councillors: Allowances for Communities and Local Government with reference to the answer to the hon. Member for Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Beckenham of 7 January 2008, Official Report, column Communities and Local Government what statistical 252W, on planning permission: aerials, what progress information his Department holds on average has been made on the review of planning regulations councillor allowances. [288294] affecting mobile telephone masts; and if he will bring forward legislative proposals to require full planning Ms Rosie Winterton: We do not collect or report on permission for the construction of such masts. [284004] allowances paid to local authority members, which are matters for each council to decide, having regard to the Mr. Ian Austin: We will be announcing the conclusions recommendations of their independent remuneration of our review of permitted development rights for panel, and on which the council is accountable to their telecommunications shortly. local electorate. Business: Government Assistance Departmental Data Protection

Mr. Don Foster: To ask the Secretary of State for Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (1) how much of Communities and Local Government how many (a) the £3 million fund for high streets adversely affected attempts and (b) successful attempts were made to by the economic downturn has been (a) allocated to gain unauthorised access to each (i) database and (ii) and (b) spent in each region; [288525] ICT system run by his Department in each of the last (2) how many unused commercial premises have five years; and if he will make a statement. [286549] been taken over for community creative use since his announcement on such usage in April 2009. [288526] Mr. Malik: It is not in the interests of the UK’s national security for Departments to confirm information Mr. Malik: There has been widespread interest in the on the number of attempts, successful or otherwise, to “Looking after our town centres” guide, with nearly gain unauthorised access to departmental systems or 9,000 downloads of the document since it was published databases. Such disclosure could undermine the integrity in April. However, information on how commercial and security of departmental systems and thereby expose premises are being used is not collected centrally, as this them to potential threats. is a matter for local authorities and their partners. An Communities and Local Government complies with announcement will be made shortly on how the £3 million the mandatory requirements of the Security Policy funding will be allocated. Framework in relation to information security including managing the risk of unauthorised access to ICT systems. Central Manchester Development Corporation: Archives Departmental Databases Kate Hoey: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government with reference to the answer of Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for 21 February 2008, Official Report, column 900W, on Communities and Local Government what information the Central Manchester Development Corporation: databases his Department (a) maintains and (b) uses archives, which archives of the Central Manchester which do not contain personal information. [284394] Development Corporation are within the Government Office for the North-West registry. [287405] Mr. Malik: The information requested is not held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate Ms Rosie Winterton: There are no Central Manchester cost. Development Corporation archives held in GONW. All such files were sent to an external storage facility in Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for March 1998 with instructions to be securely destroyed Communities and Local Government what categories on 1 April 2006. of personal information on members of the public will be held on each of his Department’s and its agency’s Council Tax: Pensioners databases expected to become operational in the next five years; what estimate he has made of the likely Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State number of individuals’ details each such database will for Communities and Local Government if he will hold when fully operational; and if he will make a assess the merits of introducing a council tax statement. [286494] deferment scheme for home-owning pensioners. [286564] Mr. Malik: New databases containing personal data are set up by Communities and Local Government as Ms Rosie Winterton: The Government have no plans and when policy development and implementation of to assess the merits of introducing a council tax deferment policy dictate the operational need for them. It is not scheme for home-owning pensioners. Regulation 21 of possible to plan or predict how many individuals’ details Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations nor what categories of their personal information are 1992 (SI 1992/613) already enables local authorities to likely to need to be held on new databases that are 811W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 812W required for the business of the Department up to five Casualties in fires by source of ignition, England, 2003-071 years ahead. None the less, Communities and Local Leads to Wires and Government always takes steps to ensure that new All casualties appliances2 cables3 databases are fully compliant with the provisions of the 2006 Data Protection Act. Fatal casualties 398 5 3 Departmental Electronic Equipment Non-fatal 11,042 64 224 casualties Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many (a) 2007 photocopiers, (b) scanning devices and (c) fax Fatal casualties 356 1 5 machines, excluding multi-function devices, there are in Non-fatal 10,446 69 236 his Department; how many there were in each of the casualties last three years; and if he will make a statement. 1 Data for 2007 are provisional and subject to change. 2 [286178] Leads to appliances includes extension leads. 3 Wires and cables include: switch gear, meters, fuses, junction boxes, fixed mains wiring (before and after meter) but excludes sockets and Mr. Malik: The information requested is not held switches in vehicles and plugs. centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate Source: cost. Communities and Local Government are reviewing Fire data reports to CLG its use of such devices with the aim of reducing the Floods: Gardens numbers and moving to a more carbon efficient approach in line with the requirements of the “Greening Government ICT programme”. Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Fire Services answer to the hon. Member for the Vale of York of 2 June 2009, Official Report, column 335W, on floods: Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State gardens, when he expects to (a) receive and (b) publish for Communities and Local Government what the the final report of the research into the effects of the latest estimated total gross cost is of the FireControl paving of back gardens on levels of flood risk. [286510] project. [283697] Mr. Ian Austin: The Government have now received Mr. Malik: We will be updating the cost figures the research report on permeable and impermeable contained in the FiReControl Business Case in due surfacing. We intend to publish the report shortly with course to reflect the rescheduling I announced to the the consultation on a package of measures to respond House on 15 July 2009. to the recommendations from Killian Pretty for improving the planning process. Fires Government Office for London: Finance Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many (a) Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State injuries and (b) deaths were caused (i) by all fires and for Communities and Local Government what the (a) (ii) by fires with a source of ignition in (A) wires and administrative cost and (b) total expenditure of the cables and (B) leads and appliances in each year since Government Office for London were in 2008-09. 2003. [287083] [286514]

Mr. Malik: The latest data on the number of injuries Ms Rosie Winterton: The 2008-09 administrative costs and deaths by the types of source of ignition requested for Government Office for London (GOL) were: are shown in the following table. Salary: £10,799,080 Casualties in fires by source of ignition, England, 2003-071 Non-pay: £972,438 Leads to Wires and Total: £11,771,518 2 3 All casualties appliances cables The gross accommodation spend for GOL for 2008-09 2003 was £4,458,591 and related tariff/minor occupier income Fatal casualties 468 1 2 of £358,700. The net accommodation expenditure was Non-fatal 12,383 89 263 £4,099,891. casualties Home Information Packs

2004 Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Fatal casualties 368 1 2 Communities and Local Government what estimate he Non-fatal 11,447 60 225 has made of the number of registered home inspectors casualties there were in each of the last three years. [286421]

2005 John Healey: No estimate of the number of inspectors Fatal casualties 387 2 3 registered to produce home condition reports in each of Non-fatal 11,251 68 243 the last three years has been made. The number of casualties registered inspectors on 14 July 2009, which is the most recent date for which numbers were available, was 963. 813W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 814W

Homes and Communications Agency: Finance homes, (c) the number of households in temporary accommodation, (d) repairs to council housing stock Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for and (e) the progress of regeneration and housing Communities and Local Government how much he infrastructure projects of the £775 million in capital expects to provide the Homes and Communications funding for housing and regeneration, brought forward Agency in grant in aid in 2009-10. [288492] from 2010-11 to 2009-10 and 2008-09; and how much of the funding has been spent in each month since it John Healey: The latest estimate of the amount of was announced. [286654] grant in aid that the Department expects to give the Homes and Communities Agency is published in the John Healey: The £775 million consisted of £150 notes to the Department’s Main Estimates 2009-10, on million for social rented housing, through the Affordable the Treasury website at: Housing Programme; £250 million for decent homes, http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/13403_me08_dclg_lst.pdf which has been allocated to fund improvements and improve energy efficiency in council homes; £175 million Homes and Communities Agency: Finance for major repairs to council housing stock; and £100 million and £80 million respectively for the regional Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for development agencies and Homes and Communities Communities and Local Government what the (a) Agency (HCA) to support key regeneration and housing capital and (b) resource allocation for (i) the Homes infrastructure projects. and Communities Agency and (ii) the Tenant Services The investment in social rented homes forms part of Authority is for (A) 2009-10 and (B) 2010-11. [286439] the National Affordable Housing Programme and is reported as part of that programme. Information on John Healey: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I spending for new affordable housing is published in gave him on 16 June 2009, Official Report, column HCA’s Annual Report and Accounts. The money for 202W. decent homes has been allocated directly to local authorities as part of the overall Decent Homes programme and is Homes and Communities Agency: Guardian not reported on separately.£162 million of the £175 million for major repairs has been allocated to 39 local authorities. Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for A large number of our programmes are aimed at Communities and Local Government what (a) reducing the number of people in temporary financial and (b) administrative support the Homes accommodation. Over the past year those households and Communities Agency provides to the Guardian placed in temporary accommodation has reduced by newspaper website for its Housing Horizons microsite; 17 per cent. to 64,000 from a peak of 101,000 in and if he will make a statement. [288405] December 2004 (as at 30 March). The regeneration funding was intended for 2009-10. John Healey: The HCA has made no financial As sponsor Department for the regional development contribution or administrative support for the housing agencies, the Department of Business, Innovation and microsite, Housing Horizons. Skills leads on the monitoring of the £100 million Housing reprioritised for critical regeneration projects with relevant projects due to begin work in the autumn. The HCA are due to begin investment of the £80 million allocated to Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for them shortly, with work beginning on relevant priority Communities and Local Government to how many projects during the autumn/winter. local newspapers the Minister for Housing and Planning’s letter on being green and while tackling the Because these schemes represent elements of wider recession was sent. [286685] programmes with established reporting mechanisms, monthly breakdowns of spend are not available. John Healey: No such letters were sent out. However, an article I wrote was made available to local newspapers Housing: Low Incomes through the Central Office of Information. Housing: Energy Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (1) how many affordable homes have been built in (a) Essex and (b) Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for Castle Point in each of the last five years. [285479] Communities and Local Government what assessment he has made of the effect on the level of demand for the (2) how many homes for social rent have been built services of accredited energy assessors of his in (a) Essex and (b) Castle Point in each of the last Department’s funding for energy assessments to be five years. [285480] performed by Eaga. [286324] (3) how many properties he expects to be added to the stock of social rented housing through (a) John Healey: My Department does not provide funding construction and (b) purchase in (i) Essex and (ii) for energy assessments performed by eaga plc. Castle Point in (A) 2009-10 and (B) each of the next four years. [285529] Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what assessment Mr. Ian Austin: The following table shows the number he has made of the effect on (a) energy efficiency in of new affordable homes built in Essex and Castle Point council homes, (b) the number of new social rented in each of the last five years. 815W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 816W

Regular Market Engagements (RME). The first RME Castle Point Essex bid round ran from mid-April to mid-May 2008 and the 2003-04 0 350 second ran in July 2008. From September 2008 we 2004-05 30 500 moved to Continuous Market Engagement under which 2005-06 0 840 there are no longer pre-defined bid rounds and bidding 2006-07 0 660 is always open. 2007-08 20 1,260 New build homebuy and rent to homebuy are part of the NAHP. The following table shows the number of new social rented homes built in Essex and Castle Point in each of the last five years. Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how much his Castle Point Essex Department has spent on Rent to HomeBuy in 2009-10 2003-04 0 330 to date. [286422] 2004-05 30 450 2005-06 0 650 2006-07 0 490 John Healey: Up to the end of June £26,954,819 had 2007-08 10 840 been spent on Rent to HomeBuy in 2009-10. Note: Figures have been rounded to nearest 10 units. Source: Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Homes and Communities Agency Investment Management System Communities and Local Government what effect the (IMS), and local authority returns to CLG. decision to end the Open Market Homebuy scheme will Not all social rented and affordable housing is provided have on other Home Buy schemes. [286811] by new build completions, as some supply can come from acquisitions. For example, in 2007-08, a total of 1,440 additional affordable homes were provided in John Healey: The Government remain committed to Essex (new build and acquisitions). helping households who could not otherwise afford to Communities and Local Government do not set targets buy into homeownership and the HomeBuy Direct, for the National Affordable Housing Programme (NAHP) New Build HomeBuy and Rent to HomeBuy schemes at a local level. The Homes and Communities Agency’s remain available to help those who cannot afford to National Affordable Housing Programme (NAHP) awards purchase without Government assistance. grant funding for the provision of social housing on the basis of competitive bidding. Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what his plans Mr. Jenkins: To ask the Secretary of State for are for the future operation of OpenMarket HomeBuy; Communities and Local Government how much and if he will make a statement. [287726] funding has been (a) allocated to and (b) spent in the West Midlands under the My Choice HomeBuy scheme in 2009-10. [286334] John Healey: I refer my hon. Friend to my written statement to the House on 30 June 2009, Official Report, John Healey: We have not set individual budgets for columns 8-10WS. each HomeBuy scheme to ensure flexibility within the Homes and Communities Agency’s National Affordable Housing programme 2008-11. Jim Cousins: To ask the Secretary of State for To the end of June £953,055 had been spent on Communities and Local Government what his most MyChoiceHomeBuy in the West Midlands. recent estimate is of the level of take-up of OpenMarket HomeBuy in each region; and how many purchases Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for were made under what scheme in (a) 2007-08, (b) Communities and Local Government during what 2008-09 and (c) 2009 to date; and what the monetary periods bidding has taken place for funding under the value of those purchases was in each period. [287727] (a) HomeBuy Direct, (b) New Build HomeBuy, (c) Rent to HomeBuy and (d) the First time Buyers initiative since the inception of each scheme. [286398] John Healey: I refer the hon. Member to my written statement to the House on 30 June 2009, Official Report, John Healey: An Official Journal of the European columns 8-9WS. Since 1997, we have helped over 35,000 Union compliant competition to select suitable schemes households through the open market homebuy scheme. and providers for HomeBuy Direct commenced on However, we want to maximise our efforts behind building 1 October and closed on 7 November 2008. of new affordable homes, so we are closing the open FTBI schemes were procured by the former English market homebuy scheme to new applicants and in future Partnerships in 2006-07. our low cost home ownership programme will be directed to schemes which support new build homes. For the National Affordable Housing Programme (NAHP), bidding for the 2006-08 programme took The following table shows the take-up of, and number place between July and October 2005. The initial bid of purchases made through open market homebuy by round for the 2008-11 programme ran from September scheme and region for 2007-08, 2008-09 and the first to early November 2007. This was followed by two quarter of 2009-10. 817W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 818W

Number 2007-08 2008-091 2009-101 eOMHB Mychoice homebuy Ownhome eOMHB2 Mychoice homebuy Ownhome

Eastern 455 151 40 52 30 1 East Midlands 60 625 81 292 182 0 London 624 1,072 158 191 268 0 North East 9 15 10 3 1 0 North West 181 101 56 87 23 0 South East 904 1,176 198 412 255 12 South West 286 393 137 158 48 2 West Midlands 133 228 68 124 26 5 Yorks and Humber 97 165 51 79 8 0 Total 2,749 3,926 799 1,398 841 20

The following table shows Government investment on open market homebuy by scheme and region for 2007-08, 2008-09 and the first quarter of 2009-10.

£ 2007-08 2008-091 2009-101 eOMHB Mychoice homebuy Ownhome eOMHB2 Mychoice homebuy Ownhome

Eastern 12,646,571 3,700,539 886,598 1,355,608 981,494 21,345 East Midlands 1,302,182 20,410,497 2,208,860 9,434,277 6,955,301 0 London 21,709,182 55,687,444 5,603,082 7,840,091 13,540,200 0 North East 202,916 374,546 185,200 69,138 32,335 0 North West 3,807,132 2,424,249 1,226,558 2,039,110 763,443 0 South East 27,484,354 37,648,932 5,755,648 13,998,812 10,679,519 332,391 South West 7,047,391 10,864,285 3,683,044 4,719,230 1,785,254 85,656 West Midlands 2,575,689 5,729,820 1,489,892 2,706,973 953,055 77,010 Yorks and Humber 2,281,400 3,951,227 1,140,239 2,111,025 234,567 0 Total 79,056,817 140,791,539 22,179,121 44,274,264 35,925,168 484,662 1 2008-09 and 2009-10 figures are provisional. 2 eOMHB: Transitional arrangement for those households who had already been approved in 2007-08. Source: Homes and Communities Agency.

Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for John Healey: We do not make future estimates of the Communities and Local Government how many number of intermediate affordable homes and social potential homebuyers have been informed that their rented homes started and completed by local authority applications to the MyChoice Homebuy scheme have area. been refused as a result of all the scheme’s funding having been allocated. [288227] Improvement and Development Agency: Finance

John Healey: The total number of people contacted Mr. Drew: Toask the Secretary of State for Communities is not held centrally. and Local Government how much direct funding his Funding for the MyChoice HomeBuy scheme is DepartmenthasallocatedtotheImprovementandDevelopment confirmed only at the point when the equity loan provider Agency in each year since 2000. [286576] has approved an applicant’s purchase in writing. Applicants are always advised not to incur any costs until they have Ms Rosie Winterton: The Improvement and Development received written confirmation from the equity loan provider Agency receives revenue support grant (RSG) funding stating that their chosen property is eligible, that funding from my Department to provide core services for local has been reserved for them and confirming that the government improvement. We give additional money applicant can proceed with their purchase. for specific projects from CLG allocations. Since 2000 they will have received the following amounts Applicants who have not received confirmation have been contacted by MyChoice HomeBuy providers Improvement and Development Agency informing them that funding has been fully committed funding allocated (£) and that the scheme is now closed. 2009-10 32,670,000 2008-09 28,730,000 Grant Shapps: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007-08 30,688,000 Communities and Local Government how many 2006-07 36,924,000 homes for (a) intermediate low cost ownership and 2005-06 38,549,978 (b) social rent he expects to be (i) started and (ii) 2004-05 21,097,000 completed in each local authority area in each of the 2003-04 20,563,000 next three years. [288491] 819W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 820W

(2) what recent estimate has been made of the annual Improvement and Development Agency funding allocated (£) cost to (a) his Department of distributing each grant made by it to local authorities and (b) local authorities 2002-03 14,212,000 of administering each such grant. [285044] 2001-02 17,041,000 2000-01 14,939,000 Ms Rosie Winterton: The Government believe in giving local authorities greater flexibility to take decisions on Knowledge Network Project local priorities. The introduction of the area based grant has reduced ring-fencing, giving councils increased Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for flexibility to manage their budgets. Alongside this, the Communities and Local Government pursuant to the new local performance framework has provided a simplified answer to the hon. Member for Peterborough of 11 and more effective structure for priority setting and May 2009, Official Report, column 538W,on the Knowledge performance measurement. Network project, if he will place in the Library a copy The following specific grants are being paid by this of the guidance provided for staff in his Department on Department direct to local authorities in 2009-10: using the Knowledge Network. [284765] Cornish Language 2009 Housing Option Grant 2009-10 Mr. Malik: Communities and Local Government has Minor Repairs and Adaptations “Handyperson” Grant 2009-10 no specific guidance relating to staff using the Knowledge Network. Overcrowding Grant 2009-10 Supporting Local Delivery Grant for Local Improvement Adviser Support 2009 Local Democratic Renewal Programme Planning Sector-Led Support 2009-10 Homelessness Revenue Grant 2009-10 Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Fire and Rescue Authorities Capital Funding 2009-10 for Communities and Local Government what plans he has for implementation of the policies outlined in the Olympic Park Grant 2009-10 Local Democratic Renewal Programme; and if he will Growth Fund 2009-10 make a statement. [286613] Olympic Security Funding—Dorset Fire and Rescue 2009-10 Olympic Security Funding—LFEPA 2009-10 Ms Rosie Winterton: Government are preparing to Timely Information to Citizens 2009-10 consult shortly on a range of issues around local democratic FiReControl Implementation Funding 2009-10 renewal. A number of questions around future policy Preventing Repossession Revenue Grant 2009-10 will be posed in that consultation, and we will take forward ideas in the light of comments received. Minor Repairs and Adaptations “Enhanced Services” Grant 2009-10 Capacity Building and Efficiency Grant for Regional Improvement Local Government Finance and Efficiency Partnerships 2009 Fire and Rescue Authorities Capital Funding (Diversity Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Recruitment Target Commitment) 2009-10 Communities and Local Government whether his Empty Shops Funding 2009-10 Department is taking steps to reform the parish cheque Local Public Service Agreements Performance Reward Grant payment system operating in local authorities. [286580] 2009-10 Supporting Worklessness Delivery Grant for Regional Efficiency Ms Rosie Winterton: The reform of the parish cheque and Improvement Partnerships 2009-10 payment system is the subject of continuing discussions Business Rates Deferral Scheme 2009-10 with the National Association of Local Councils and other interested parties. Once these discussions are Community Infrastructure Fund 2009-10 concluded it is our policy to look for an appropriate Fund to Manage Transitional Impacts of Migration (No 2) legislative vehicle to replace the relevant legislative provisions. 2009-10 Local Authority Business Growth Incentives Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Local Enterprise Growth Initiative (capital element) Communities and Local Government whether his Warden Resource Centre Grant Department is taking steps to protect local authorities Coastal Communities Regeneration Handbook against vexatious objections to the local authorities Housing and Planning Delivery Grant auditing system. [286581] Supporting People Programme Grant Ms Rosie Winterton: The Code of Audit practice Disabled Facilities Grant makes it clear that auditors should reject objections Rent Officers Pension Liabilities that disclose no reasonable cause for action, are frivolous New Dimension Grant. or vexatious objections to the local council auditing system. Area based grant is paid by Communities and Local Government on behalf of the Government as a whole, Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for in monthly instalments. Funding streams from this Communities and Local Government (1) which (a) Department which are being paid through area based specific and (b) area-based grants are distributed to grant in 2009-10 are: local authorities by each division of his Department; Community Cohesion [285043] Local Enterprise Growth Initiative (resource element) 821W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 822W

Stronger Safer Communities John Healey: Communities and Local Government is Supporting People Administration working closely with HMT and the FSA to support Working Neighbourhood Fund sustainable mortgage lending to first time buyers. Preventing Violent Extremism The current median average loan-to-value percentage Climate Change. secured by first-time buyers is 75 per cent., down from The Department does not routinely estimate the costs 90 per cent. in December 2007. However, the Government of distributing grant each year, although it does consider have substantially increased investment in low cost home the cost-effectiveness of proposals as part of the policy ownership products; such as Homebuy Direct which development process. It also assesses whether there will provides a 30 per cent. equity loan that can be used as a be any new burdens on local authorities, and ensures deposit. that these are fully funded when a policy is implemented. Mortgages: Government Assistance Local Government Services Sandra Gidley: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Communities and Local Government (1) how much for Communities and Local Government on what money has been allocated to the (a) Mortgage Rescue methodology his Department’s (a) Total Place and (b) and (b) Homeowners Mortgage Support scheme for Place Shaping approach to local service delivery was expenditure in (i) Test Valley borough and (ii) Southampton; based. [286522] and whether his Department has placed a limit on the number of households which may be assisted under Ms Rosie Winterton: The Total Place project is based each such scheme; [286320] on a refinement of the methodology developed by the (2) how many households in (a) Test Valley borough Leadership Centre for Local Government. The idea and (b) Southampton have received assistance under emerged from an in depth analysis of the leadership of the (i) Mortgage Rescue and (ii) Homeowners places run by the leadership centre in February 2007. Mortgage Support scheme to date. [286321] Our planned approach to local service delivery was set out in the 2006 Local Government White Paper John Healey: The £285 million Government Mortgage “Strong and Prosperous Communities”, which was in Rescue Scheme has been operational across the country turn informed by the work of the Lyons Inquiry into since 1 January 2009. The Government do not allocate the future role, function and funding of local government. money directly to local authorities under the scheme. It The improved delivery of services through local strategic is a demand-led scheme, with the number of vulnerable partnerships and local area agreements has been further households benefiting in each local authority dependent developed by provisions within the Local Government on numbers of eligible applicants approaching their and Public involvement in Health Act 2007, and its local authority for assistance. success is being measured both through the new As part of the monitoring arrangements for the comprehensive area assessment and through evidence scheme headline data for January to May 2009, provided including the Citizenship Survey and Place Survey. by local authorities and broken down by Government office region, are available on the Department’s website Local Government: Procurement http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/corporate/ statistics/mortgagerescuestatistics David Taylor: To ask the Secretary of State for Figures reported by local authorities from January to Communities and Local Government what guidance May 2009 are provided in a table, which has been placed his Department provides to local authorities on the in the Library. procurement of halal meat; and whether that guidance The Homeowners Mortgage Support scheme provides differentiates between stunned and pre-stunned meat. enhanced support for homeowners who have fallen on [287725] difficult times by enabling them to reduce their mortgage interest payments to affordable levels. The Government Ms Rosie Winterton: The Department for Communities do not allocate money directly to households under the and Local Government has not issued any guidance to scheme. There is no target or limit to the number of local authorities on the procurement of Halal meat. households who may be assisted under the scheme in However, the Food Quality Standards, published by the any particular region or area. Official figures on numbers Office of Government Commerce (OGC) in November of households entering HMS will be published later this 2008, offers guidance to public authorities on purchasing year. Halal food. The standards can be accessed using the following link: Mr. McLoughlin: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.ogc.gov.uk/food_food_quality_standards.asp Communities and Local Government what estimate he has made of the number of people who will be assisted Mortgages by the Homeowner Mortgage Support Scheme in (a) West Derbyshire and (b) the UK in the next Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for 12 months. [286408] Communities and Local Government what assessment has been made of the effects of the level of availability John Healey: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I of high loan-to-value mortgages on the ability of gave to the hon. Member for Tamworth (Mr. Jenkins) first-time buyers to obtain mortgages. [288099] on 24 June 2009, Official Report, column 961W. 823W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 824W

Non-domestic Rates Ms Rosie Winterton: No. It would be inappropriate for Ministers to release correspondence they receive Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for from hon. Members and their constituents without Communities and Local Government if he will their authority. establish a cross-Government review on the effect of the new regime of retrospective business rates on (a) Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the businesses and (b) cross-border trade. [286681] answer of 8 July 2009, Official Report, columns 912-13W, on non-domestic rates: ports, what guidance Ms Rosie Winterton: There will be no cross-Government his Department provided to the Valuation Office review, as the business rates legislation concerning when Agency on the 2005 revaluation. [287107] a business becomes liable to pay rates has not changed. Ms Rosie Winterton: The assessment of rateable value Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for and the maintenance of rating lists is the responsibility Communities and Local Government pursuant to the of the Valuation Office Agency and not this Department. answer to the hon. Member for Peterborough of 13 We do not provide guidance to the Valuation Office March 2009, Official Report, column 768W, on non- Agency on professional valuation issues. domestic rates: small businesses, what timetable his Department has set for the publication of data on the Mr. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for take-up rate of small business rate relief. [286814] Communities and Local Government pursuant to the answer of 8 July 2009, Official Report, column 912W, Ms Rosie Winterton: No timetable for this work has on non-domestic rates: ports, (1) for what reasons the yet been set. We are currently examining data reported Valuation Office Agency did not initiate its review of by local authorities on the annual national non-domestic all major ports in 2005; how many properties identified rate return to assess their quality before making a by the review as separately rateable had not been decision on whether they are suitable for publication. assessed; for what reasons those properties were not separately listed in 2005; and when and how the owners Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for of such properties were notified of the findings of the Communities and Local Government pursuant to the review in respect of their properties; [287111] answer to the hon. Member for Meriden of 24 April (2) how many separate assessments on port businesses 2009, Official Report, column 921W, on non-domestic were undertaken by the Valuation Office Agency in rates: small businesses, what the maximum cash value 2005; whether such assessments were listed in respect of of small business rate relief, including the value of the how many other businesses it was established that a lower small business multiplier to a firm in (a) London separate assessment should be made; when such assessments and (b) outside London is in (i) 2008-09 and (ii) were (a) made and (b) listed; and how many businesses 2009-10. [279885] which were separately assessed in (i) 2005 and (ii) 2006 consequent on the review of all major ports were reassessed Ms Rosie Winterton: Eligible businesses which have in (A) 2007, (B) 2008 and (C) 2009; [287112] been granted small business rate relief have their rates (3) how many port businesses have been subject to calculated using the small business rates multiplier, and separate assessments; and how many of those businesses those under £10,000 in rateable value also receive a were reassessed in (a) 2007, (b) 2008 and (c) 2009. discount. The maximum value of the small business [287165] rate relief will apply to properties of £5,000 rateable value, as properties up to that value receive the maximum Ms Rosie Winterton: The original assessments in the 50 per cent. discount. 2005 rating list were produced in good faith on the basis The maximum cash value of small business rate relief of the information held by the Valuation Office Agency that could be granted to a firm both inside and outside (VOA). The VOA did not undertake a review of occupations of London (excluding the City of London) was £1,165 within ports at this time because it had not identified in 2008-09 and £1,222.50 in 2009-10. evidence that such a review was required. The City of London authority is allowed to add an Once evidence that additional properties within ports additional supplement onto the rates multiplier of 0.4p should be separately assessed came to the Agency’s in the pound. This means the maximum cash value of attention, it had a statutory duty to carry out such small business rate relief that could be granted to a firm assessments and enter them onto the rating list. in the City of London was £1,175 in 2008-09 and Over 1,600 properties within the 45 ports in England £1,232.50 in 2009-10. were separately assessed immediately prior to the completion of the review of each port. After review, some of those This does not take into account any deferral of the properties were no longer separately listed or had their rate increase for 2009-10. list entry altered. A total of 748 additional properties were separately Non-domestic Rates: Ports assessed for the first time with an effective date of 1 April 2005 as a result of the Agency’s review of ports, Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for of which 28 are no longer separately listed. As at 8 July Communities and Local Government pursuant to the 2009 the number of properties within ports that are answer of 24 June 2009, Official Report, column 962W, separately assessed was 2,207, a net increase of around on non-domestic rates: ports, if he will place in the 600 compared with the position immediately prior to Library a copy of the items of correspondence. [286686] the review of each port. 825W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 826W

The Agency notified the occupiers of these properties Ms Rosie Winterton: The Regional Improvement and of the findings of the review as and when each review Efficiency Partnerships were set up in April 2008 and was completed. The exact date and method of notification receive core funding from my Department. My Department varies from port to port and occupier to occupier. has provided £50 million core funding for Regional Information on the date that each separate assessment Improvement and Efficiency Partnerships since their was made and information on the number of separate inception in April 2008, and is committed to providing assessments within ports that have been re-assessed in a further £135 million core funding over the remaining each of the years 2007, 2008 and 2009 could be obtained CSR07 period, including the £68 million investment I only at disproportionate cost. confirmed on 15 July 2009 for this year (2009-10). We also provide additional money for specific projects. Privacy: Impact Assessments It would not be possible to disaggregate how much the RIEPs support individual local councils and their Mrs. Spelman: To ask the Secretary of State for representatives bodies. Communities and Local Government what his Department’s This Department has also provided funding, via the policy is on performing privacy impact assessments to Community Development Foundation, to the Regional accompany new regulations or legislation. [284917] Empowerment Partnerships (REPs), to support local government of all types to help improve their empowerment Mr. Malik: It is the Department’s policy to follow the and engagement practice. It would not be possible to Information Commissioner’s guidance on when a privacy disaggregate how much the REPs support different impact assessment is required and how it should be types of councils. carried out. Regional Government: Operating Costs Regional Planning and Development: West Midlands

Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Robert Neill: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what the running Communities and Local Government at what phase of costs were of each regional Government Office in the the West Midlands Regional Spatial Strategy review an assessment of ecotown applications will be made. last year for which figures are available. [287018] [288327] Ms Rosie Winterton: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to the hon. Member for Putney Mr. Malik: The Examination in Public into the West (Justine Greening) on 12 June 2009, Official Report, Midlands Regional Spatial Strategy took place between columns 1062-64W. 28 April and 24 June 2009. The Examination considered what role in principle eco-towns or new settlement Regional Planning and Development proposals might have in providing for housing development in the region. Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities The Panel Report is anticipated in September. Following and Local Government how much funding his Department this the Secretary of State aims to publish Proposed has allocated through regional efficiency and improvement Changes to the Regional Spatial Strategy before the end partnerships in the last three years. [286577] of the year.

Ms Rosie Winterton: The Regional Improvement and Rented Housing: Carbon Emissions Efficiency Partnerships were set up in April 2008 and receive core funding from my Department. My Department Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State has provided £50 million core funding for Regional for Communities and Local Government what progress Improvement and Efficiency Partnerships since their has been made towards the target for all new (a) inception in April 2008, and is committed to providing private sector and (b) social rented housing to be zero a further £135 million core funding over the remaining carbon by 2016. [286524] CSR07 period, including the £68 million investment I confirmed on 15 July 2009 for this year (2009-10). We John Healey: The Government announced in July also provide additional money for specific projects. 2007 that all new homes will be zero carbon from 2016. Funding provided is as follows: Following a consultation paper released last December, I made a written ministerial statement to the House £ announcing further decisions on the definition of zero Revenue funding Capital funding carbon homes on 16 July 2009 Official Report, columns 2008-09 74,922,000 26,412,000 43-44WS. A summary of consultation responses and 2009-10 54,000,000 13,500,000 updated impact assessment were published on the same day see: Total 128,922,000 39,912,000 www.communities.gov.uk/planningandbuilding/ theenvironment/zerocarbonhomes/ Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities Government continue to support the transition to and Local Government what financial support his low and zero carbon homes in a number of ways: Department has provided to local authorities and their in my 16 July 2009 statement, I announced the first four representative bodies through (a) regional efficiency pioneering locations for eco-towns in England and the publication and improvement partnerships and (b) regional of the planning policy statement on eco-towns. Eco-towns will empowerment partnerships in the last three years. demonstrate the highest levels of sustainability and will be zero [286579] carbon across all the town’s buildings; 827W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 828W

the Technology Strategy Board is working with partners to chair with the Executive Chairman of the Home Builders enable it to harness the market for environmentally sustainable Federation and which provides strategic oversight of our zero buildings, since 2004 investing £46 million in this area. Under carbon homes policy; its Low Impact Buildings Innovation Platform a further total stamp duty land tax exemption or reduction is available for the of £50 million is now earmarked for allocation to research first acquisition of a zero carbon home. relevant to new build by 2011. This includes over £30 million of capability building work to be awarded over the next two years In relation to social housing: and up to £8.5 million in new build demonstration programmes; social housing funded under the National Affordable Housing the Government’s Code for Sustainable Homes (the Code) Programme is required to meet level 3 of the Code. The HCA provides a single national standard to guide industry in the is reviewing the timetable for requiring housing funded under design and construction of sustainable new homes. Recently, this programme to be built to higher levels of the Code; post-construction certificates were issued for the first homes Budget 2009 announced £100 million of new funding for local built to Code level 6 (zero carbon achieved on-site or via authorities to deliver new social housing at higher energy private wire); efficiency standards. This funding has been increased under the Homes and Communities Agency (HCA) Carbon Challenge the Housing Pledge to enable up a four-fold increase in new programme aims to accelerate the home building industry’s social homes to be built by local authorities. response to climate change by building homes that reach Code level 6. Four new communities are planned which will together Social Rented Housing: Essex provide around 1,700 zero carbon and highly sustainable homes. Work on the first site at Hanham Hall, near Bristol, is expected Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities to start in late 2009; and Local Government what proportion of (a) local Budget 2009 announced a £400 million Kickstart Housing authority and (b) housing association homes in (i) Delivery programme targeted at currently stalled sites, to support Essex and (ii) Castle Point met the decent homes standard construction of high quality mixed tenure housing developments. in each of the last five years. [285481] This amount was subsequently increased under the Housing Pledge as part of Building Britain’s Future last month. Homes built to higher levels of the Code are encouraged under this Mr. Ian Austin: The following table outlines the programme; proportion of (a) local authority and (b) housing my Department is providing funding support to the Zero association homes in (i) Essex and (ii) Castle Point that Carbon Hub, the industry-led delivery body for zero carbon failed to meet the decent homes standard in each of the homes. The Hub reports to the 2016 Task Force, which I jointly last five years.

Proportion of dwellings that are non-decent Percentage Local authority Registered social landlords 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Castle point 14.4 11.8 16.0 11.5 10.6 n/a 11.3 7.1 7.9 10.3 Essex 33.7 32.7 30.9 26.9 18.9 n/a 7.6 7.3 5.7 19.5 Source: Annual returns, from all LAs that retain social housing stock, to Communities and Local Government and annual return from Registered Social Landlords.

Social Rented Housing: Standards Landlord statistical returns show that the 18 per cent. of the social housing stock is non-decent compared to Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for 38 per cent. in 2002. Communities and Local Government how many social The cost per house of meeting the decent homes homes in each region have not reached the Decent standard varies across the country and the Department Homes standard; and what estimate he has made of the does not collect that information. Some landlords are cost to the public purse of bringing such homes up to refurbishing the houses in their area above the decent the standard. [283831] homes standard. Any higher local standard, and how that is to be achieved, will be determined by local Mr. Ian Austin: The following table provides the circumstances and the level of resources that can be information requested: delivered into the programme locally. The Government expect over £40 billion to have been spent on refurbishing Number of social sector non-decent dwellings as 1 March 2008 council houses by 2010. Non-decent Percentage dwellings Total stock non-decent Temporary Accommodation North East 72,000 274,000 26 North West 94,000 576,000 16 Grant Shapps: Toask the Secretary of State for Communities Yorkshire and 104,000 424,000 24 and Local Government how many (a) disabled and (b) the Humber elderly people were in temporary accommodation in East Midlands 53,000 305,000 17 each year since 1997. [288493] West Midlands 62,000 424,000 15 East of England 54,000 387,000 14 John Healey: The information requested is not held London 175,000 786,000 22 centrally. South East 58,000 483,000 12 Grant Shapps: Toask the Secretary of State for Communities South West 41,000 306,000 13 and Local Government how many (a) dependent children, England 714,000 3,965,000 18 (b) expectant mothers and (c) children aged (i) 16 and Source: Annual returns, from all LAs that retain social housing stock, to Communities (ii) 17 years were in temporary accommodation in each and Local Government and annual return from registered social landlords. year since 1997. [288494] 829W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 830W

John Healey: Information is not collected or available Letter from Stephen Geraghty: in the form requested. In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, the Secretary of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner. The Child Support Agency is now the responsibility WORK AND PENSIONS of the Child Maintenance Enforcement Commission. Atos You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, what mechanism is in place for the recovery of child maintenance payments from British national absent parents who are resident Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for overseas. [281844] Work and Pensions what proportion of people who The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission retains undertook a health test administered by Atos on behalf the power to pursue a non-resident parent who moves overseas, of her Department were scored at zero out of 15 in the but only where the non-resident is regarded as being habitually latest period for which figures are available. [283983] resident in the UK. The criteria for establishing jurisdiction when a non-resident parent leaves the United Kingdom is described at Jim Knight [holding answer 3 July 2009]: The information Section 44 of the Child Support Act. There is no distinction made is not held centrally and could be made available only at between an EU state and a non-EU state. disproportionate cost. Decisions about the total points There are certain cases where the nature of employment will applicable from a work capability assessment or a personal bring the non-resident parent under the jurisdiction of the capability assessment are made by Jobcentre Plus decision- Commission, for example those employed in the Civil Service or a makers in each case, taking account of the available member of the naval, military or air forces. The Commission may also have jurisdiction where a non-resident parent is employed by evidence, including any evidence provided by the claimant a company that is prescribed in Child Support (Maintenance in a work capability assessment questionnaire, a personal Arrangement and Jurisdiction Regulations) 1992, Regulation 7A(2). capability assessment questionnaire, the claimant’s general The Ministry of Justice, however operates a system for practitioner, and advice provided to Jobcentre Plus by administering international child and spousal maintenance cases the Atos health care professional. Although the decision- where the non-resident parent can not be treated as habitually maker records the points scored in each individual case, resident in the UK; this is known as the Reciprocal Enforcement there is no central record of how many people score of Maintenance Orders (REMO). zero points. Where a parent with care applies to their local magistrates’ Attendance Allowance court or family proceedings court, details of the maintenance liability can be referred to the foreign jurisdiction - where the non-resident parent now resides - whom will be able to apply their Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for domestic collection and enforcement mechanisms in order to Work and Pensions what percentage of total expenditure recover the amount due. They will then refer this money back to on benefits payments attendance allowance accounted the UK REMO administrators. for in (a) 1980, (b) 1997, (c) 2001, (d) 2005 and (e) The UK has reciprocal maintenance agreements with over 100 2008. [287417] states and territories. I hope you find this answer helpful. Jonathan Shaw: The information is in the following table. Mr. Chaytor: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Percentage of DWP total benefit expenditure accounted for by and Pensions how many parents making payments to attendance allowance the Child Support Agency have their full liability Percentage reduced because they have responsibility for the care of 1980-81 1.3 their child for more than one night per week. [283211] 1997-98 3.0 2001-02 3.1 Helen Goodman [holding answer 8 July 2009]: The 2005-06 3.3 Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is 2008-09 estimated out-turn 3.4 responsible for the child maintenance system. I have Note: therefore asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner DWP total benefit expenditure excludes benefits that are no longer to write to the hon. Member with the information within the remit of DWP. Child benefit and war pensions have been requested. excluded. Source: Letter from Stephen Geraghty: DWP accounting data In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the Children: Maintenance Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Enforcement Commission. and Pensions what mechanism is in place for the recovery of child maintenance payments from British You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, how national absent parents who are resident overseas. many parents making payments to the Child Support Agency have their full liability reduced because they have responsibility [281844] for the care of their child for more than one night per week. [283211] Helen Goodman: The Child Maintenance and The Agency estimates that at the end of March 2009, there Enforcement Commission is responsible for the child were around 180,000 cases across both schemes where the maintenance maintenance system. I have therefore asked the Child liability has been reduced to take into account a shared care Maintenance Commissioner to write to the hon. Member arrangement between the non resident parent and parent with with the information requested. care. 831W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 832W

It should be noted that the current statutory maintenance Departmental Electronic Equipment scheme defines a shared care arrangement as one where a qualifying child spends at least 52 nights per year with the non-resident parent. However the original statutory maintenance scheme defined Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Work a shared care arrangement as one where the qualifying child and Pensions how many (a) photocopiers, (b) scanning spends two days or more per week with the non resident parent. devices and (c) fax machines, excluding multi-function The figure quoted above is based on these definitions. devices, there are in her Department; how many there I hope you find this answer helpful. were in each of the last three years; and if she will make a statement. [286162] Damian McBride Jim Knight: The Department had 5,243 photocopiers Mr. Maude: To ask the Secretary of State for Work in April 2007; 4,952 in April 2008 and 4,294 in April and Pensions on what date she last met Mr. Damian 2009. 181 scanners and 1,377 fax machines have been McBride in the course of her official duties. [287419] ordered through the DWP IT catalogue since July and November 2007 respectively. Information on other orders Yvette Cooper: I can confirm that I have not met with and the total numbers in the Department are not available. Mr. Damian McBride in the course of my ministerial The Department is currently undertaking a project to duties. rationalise the Department’s printers and photocopiers Departmental Databases and introduce where ever possible multi-functional devises with the capability to print, copy, fax and scan. This Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work initiative will lower the total cost of printing and copying and Pensions what information databases her in the Department, reduce our carbon footprint and Department (a) maintain and (b) uses which do not provide better support for our staff. contain personal information. [284383] Departmental Risk Assessment Jim Knight: The Department maintains a variety of large and small databases in order to process benefits, Mr. Rooney: To ask the Secretary of State for Work run the Department and deliver the range of services and Pensions how many investigations her Department’s for which the Department is responsible. Those that Risk Assessment Division carried out with external contain personal information include: operational systems programme providers in each of the last five years; and such as our Customer Information System; databases how many resulted in (a) prosecution, (b) an administrative for research purposes; databases that contain staff-related financial penalty, (c) other further action and (d) no resource management information and others that relate further action. [285198] to the administration of specific benefits. Where personal information is stored and processed on such databases Jim Knight [holding answer 9 July 2009]: Data in the these comply with the requirements of the Data Protection format requested are only available from 2006-07. Act. The figures are shown in the following table:

1 April 2006 to 31 1 April 2007 to 31 1 April 2008 to 31 March 2007 March 2008 March 2009 1 April 2009 to present

Number of investigations 26 34 15’ 21 Prosecutions 0 0 0 0 Other further action 13 14 4 0 No further action 13 20 6 0 1 Five investigations in 2008-09 and two investigations in the current year to date are continuing and no conclusion has been reached.

All DWP contracts contain robust clauses that allow Civil servants are required to act in accordance with us to terminate or seek damages for breach. ‘Administrative the requirements of the Civil Service Code. financial penalties’ are not included in DWP contracts because penalty clauses, as such, are unenforceable through the courts. Contracts will be terminated where the breach of the contract terms is sufficiently serious. Drugs: Rehabilitation Departmental Secondment

Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Mike Wood: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many employees of her Department and Pensions (1) how many people in each region were have been posted to work in offices of hon. Members of referred from Jobcentre Plus to Progress2Work in each political party in each of the last five years. 2008-09; [284992] [284883] (2) how many people in each region were referred from Jobcentre Plus to Progress2Work-LinkUP in Jim Knight: Civil servants may shadow MPs as part 2008-09. [284993] of a programme run by the industry and Parliament Trust. Details on numbers of civil servants from this Department that have had such an attachment is not Jim Knight [holding answer 8 July 2009]: The available held centrally. information is in the table. 833W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 834W

Customers in each region who started on the progress2work and and (d) places on a community task force component progress2work-Link UP following a referral by Jobcentre Plus, in the of the Young Person’s Guarantee is for (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2008-09 operational year 2010-11 and (iii) 2011-12; [283577] Number Starts onto (2) what funding her Department has allocated for Starts onto progress2work-Link the delivery of (a) the Community Task Force and (b) Region progress2work UP additional training places provided under the Young Persons’ Guarantee in (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11 and (iii) East Midlands 100 180 2011-12; [286755] East of England 0 200 London 280 80 (3) who in her Department is responsible for the North East 100 40 delivery of the Community Task Force under the Young Persons’ Guarantee. [286756] North West 480 640 Scotland 540 540 South East 100 160 Jim Knight: The total funding for Young Person’s Guarantee, which includes Future Jobs Fund, the South West 140 40 Community Task Force, Sectoral Pathways and additional Wales 100 60 training, is £250 million for 2009-10 and £838 million West Midlands 280 240 for 2010-11. In addition, there is £20 million to support Yorkshire and 240 620 Humberside delivery through Jobcentre Plus. There is no funding allocated for 2011-12. Total 2,360 2,820 Notes: 1. Figures have been rounded to the nearest 20. 2. Although The Community Task Force will be delivered by the question has asked how many were referred by Jobcentre Plus in contracted providers. The procurement process is being 2008-09 we can only say of those who started in 2008-09 how many led by the Department. were referred by Jobcentre Plus offices. Source: Department for Work and Pensions progress2work/LinkUp Evaluation Database. Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Employment Schemes and Pensions for how long the Government’s Young Person’s Guarantee will be offered; and what steps the Government plans to take to fulfil the Guarantee after Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work the closure of the Future Jobs Fund in March 2011. and Pensions how many and what proportion of (a) [283579] lone parents, (b) incapacity benefit claimants and (c) jobseeker’s allowance claimants she estimates will be covered by the single personalised employment Jim Knight: The YoungPerson’s Guarantee and Future Jobs Fund will last from April 2009 to March 2011. programme pilot scheme. [282685] Those who join the offer on the last date will continue Jim Knight [holding answer 29 June 2009]: On 16 until their placement ends. June 2009 we announced that we would pilot the Personalised Employment Programme in three Jobcentre Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Plus Districts: the London boroughs of Barnet, Enfield and Pensions what mechanism there is for provision of and Haringey, Hampshire and the Isle of Wight district the community task force under the Young Person’s and Thames Valley district Guarantee; who will provide task force places; for how These pilot areas will cover around 6 per cent. of long on average a participant will be on the task force; benefit claimants across the eligible customer groups. how much Government funding has been allocated for provision of the task force; what incentives providers will receive to secure job entries; and whether young Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work people participating in the community task force will and Pensions what changes have been made to the receive a training allowance in place of jobseeker’s single personalised employment programme pilot allowance. [283611] scheme since it was first announced; and when it is expected to commence. [282686] Jim Knight: The Budget announced a Young Person’s Jim Knight [holding answer 29 June 2009]: In January Guarantee; a guaranteed offer of a job, work experience 2009 the Department for Work and Pensions published placement or training for all jobseeker’s allowance customers a discussion paper on the next steps in implementing approaching 12 months of their claim. the Gregg Review. In this document the Government The Community Task Force is the work experience announced that the pilots would include parents with element of the Young Person’s Guarantee. It will offer younger children in addition to jobseekers and those work-focused placements of benefit to the community, with health conditions or disabilities. The programme designed to move customers closer to the labour market. was also renamed and it is now known as the Personalised When the Young Person’s Guarantee is introduced in Employment Programme. January 2010, the Community Task Force will be offered Changes to the programme have not altered the roll-out on a voluntary basis to all customers not taking up date for the pilots, which are expected to commence in another element of the guarantee. It is expected to March 2011. become mandatory for all customers who do not take up another element from spring 2010. Placements will Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work last up to six months while the scheme is voluntary, and and Pensions (1) what the budget for (a) the Future three months when it becomes mandatory, with the Jobs Fund, (b) support to take an existing job in a key option in the latter case for young people to stay on for employment sector, (c) work-focused training places a further three months on a voluntary basis. 835W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 836W

The Department for Work and Pensions will be contracting Jonathan Shaw: Information on the number and proportion with external providers to provide these placements. The of people who have left employment and support allowance Community Task Force will use a standard funding to move into work is not available at present. model, comprising a service fee and outcome payment. Employment and support allowance replaced incapacity The outcome payment will be paid to the provider when benefit for new claims from 27 October 2008. The latest a customer finds sustained, paid employment. provisional headline figures available are for November Customers taking part in the Community Task Force 2008. will be paid a training allowance, rather than jobseeker’s Financial Assistance Scheme allowance. However, they will still be expected to be actively looking for work and to leave the programme if Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work they find paid employment. and Pensions how many people she estimates will receive Funding for the Community Task Force is included pensions under her Department’s Financial Assistance in the Young Person’s Guarantee funding and is not Scheme; and of these how many she expects to have available as a separate figure. The budget for the Young rights to do so based (a) solely and (b) partly on Person’s Guarantee is approximately £250 million for pre-1997 service. [286416] 2009-10 and £838 million for 2010-11. Angela Eagle [holding answer 13 July 2009]: We Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work estimate that the Financial Assistance Scheme will provide and Pensions what mechanism there is for provision of assistance payments to 147,000 members. work-focused training places under the Young Person’s Of these, it has been estimated that 66,000 members Guarantee; who will provide such places; for how long have pension rights based solely on pre-1997 service on average a participant will receive training; how and 74,000 members have pension rights based partly much government funding has been allocated for such on pre-1997 service. The remaining 7,000 have solely places; what incentives providers will receive to secure post 1997 service. job entries; and whether young people participating in Foreign Workers such training will receive a training allowance rather than jobseeker’s allowance. [283612] Mr. Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what proportion of the increase in Jim Knight: A range of public and private sector (a) people in employment and (b) people of working training providers will deliver the training element of age in employment between the third quarter for 1997 the Young Person’s Guarantee. Learners can access the and (i) the third quarter for 2008 and (ii) the most training through their Jobcentre Plus personal adviser recent quarter for which figures are available was accounted or by going direct to a provider. for by non-UK citizens. [286461] The length of training depends on the type of course that the participant enrols in. Shorter, sector specific Angela E. Smith: I have been asked to reply. training through Sector Routeways is designed to take The information requested falls within the responsibility up to eight weeks, providing more focused training for of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority people closer to the labour market. Longer training to reply. from three to six months is designed for people who Letter from Karen Dunnell, July 2009: need a more significant and sustained boost to their As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your skills. Parliamentary Question asking what proportion of the increase The budget for this training is £122,400,000 in total in (a) people in employment and (b) people of working age in from 2009-11. The funding model for this offer, which employment between the third quarter for 1997 and (i) the third will detail any provider incentives and training allowances, quarter for 2008 and (ii) the most recent quarter for which figures are available was accounted for by non-UK citizens. (286461) has not yet been finalised. The information requested is shown in the attached tables. The estimates are derived from the Labour Force Survey (LFS). As with any sample survey, estimates from the LFS are subject to a Employment Support Allowance margin of uncertainty. The figures in the table are derived from the LFS microdata Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Work which are weighted using the official population estimates published in autumn 2007. They are not entirely consistent with the figures and Pensions how many and what proportion of those published in the monthly Labour Market Statistics Statistical who started claiming employment support allowance Bulletin, including the migrant worker figures published every have moved into work since it came into force; and if quarter, which are weighted using more up-to-date population she will make a statement. [286482] estimates.

Table 1: People aged 16 and over in employment by nationality: Three month period ending September 1997 and 2008; three month period ending March 2009—United Kingdom, not seasonally adjusted Number in employment (thousand) Change since 1997 Q3 (thousand) Change since 1997 Q3 as proportion of total change (%) Non-UK Non-UK UK Non-UK UK nationals nationals Total1 UK nationals nationals Total1 nationals nationals Total1

1997 Q3 25,721 986 26,707 — — — — — — 2008 Q3 27,203 2,323 29,533 1,482 1,337 2,825 52 47 100 2009 Q1 26,763 2,357 29,128 1,042 1,372 2,421 43 57 100 1 Includes those whose nationality was not known. 837W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 838W

Table 2: People of working age1 in employment by nationality: Three month period ending September 1997 and 2008; three month period ending March 2009—United Kingdom, not seasonally adjusted Number in employment (thousand) Change since 1997 Q3 (thousand) Change since 1997 Q3 as proportion of total change (%) Non-UK Non-UK UK Non-UK UK nationals nationals Total2 UK nationals nationals Total2 nationals nationals Total2

1997 Q3 24,928 964 25,893 — —— — — — — 2008 Q3 25,928 2,279 28,214 1,000 1,315 2,321 43 57 100 2009 Q1 25,454 2,313 27,775 526 1,348 1,882 28 52 100 1 Men aged 16-64 and women aged 16-59. 2 Includes those whose nationality was not known. Source: Labour Force Survey

It should be noted that the above estimates exclude Jonathan Shaw: The joint Department for Work and people in most types of communal establishment (e.g. Pensions (DWP)/ Department of Energy and Climate hotels, boarding houses, hostels mobile home sites etc.) Change (DECC) consultation on the restructuring of the Health and Safety Executive’s (HSE) Nuclear Future Jobs Fund Directorate was launched on 30 June 2009 and will run until 22 September 2009. A total of 170 copies of the Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work consultation document have been printed. Copies of and Pensions how many jobs are proposed to be the document are available from Publications Orderline, created by bids for the Future Jobs Fund in total. Admail 528, London SW1W 8YT. It is also available [283571] electronically via the DECC website at: http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/consultations/ Jim Knight: The Future Jobs Fund will create 150,000 hse_restruct/hse_restruct.aspx new jobs, of which we will specifically target 50,000 in A written ministerial statement announcing the launch areas of high unemployment. of the consultation was made by the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Work on 30 June. The consultation was publicised through a and Pensions what the procedure will be for (a) press notice and on the DWP, DECC and HSE websites. individuals and (b) businesses to apply for funding Copies of the consultation document were sent electronically from the Future Jobs Fund. [286631] to around 2,200 contacts. A partial impact assessment, which includes an Jim Knight: The Future Jobs Fund is a fund of assessment of the financial impact of the proposed around £1 billion to support the creation of jobs for restructuring, was published as part of the consultation long-term unemployed young people and others who document. face significant disadvantage in the labour market. Health and Safety: Teachers Bids for funding can come from anyone, but we have a strong preference for partnership bids. We expect the majority of bids to the Future Jobs Fund to be led by Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Work local authorities, sub-regional, city region and local and Pensions how many non-fatal major injuries which partnerships, or by national or local public sector and were sustained in the workplace by (a) secondary, (b) third sector bodies. We published the invitation to bid primary and nursery and (c) special needs education on 13 May, and had received over 200 bids by 30 June, teaching professionals resulted in legal proceedings in which we are currently assessing. Up-to-date guidance each of the last five years. [285727] on how to bid is available from the Future Jobs Fund website at: Jonathan Shaw: There are no prosecution cases recorded www.dwp.gov.uk/futurejobsfund on the Health and safety Executive’s database resulting from reported non-fatal major injuries to individuals in We expect that in most cases eligible candidates will the teaching profession in the last five years. be referred to employers by Jobcentre Plus. In some cases individuals may self-present to the employer, or Health Professions may be identified by them directly. In these situations, Jobcentre Plus will need to confirm an individual’s Mrs. Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work eligibility. Future Jobs Fund employers will be encouraged and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 22 June 2009, to sign a local employment partnership with Jobcentre Official Report, column 684W,on social security benefits: Plus. medical examinations, how many of the health care professionals against whom complaints were made under Health and Safety Executive: Reorganisation the heading claimants experiences were the subject of more than one complaint and how many health care Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for professionals have been (a) disciplined and (b) dismissed. Work and Pensions how many copies of the [283836] consultation paper on proposed changes to the Nuclear Directorate of the Health and Safety Executive have Jim Knight: Further to the answer of 22 June 2009, been printed; what methods have been used to publicise there were 15 health care professionals against whom the consultation; and what financial impact assessment complaints were made under the heading claimants of the proposed changes has been undertaken. [286862] experiences were the subject of more than one complaint. 839W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 840W

The number of health care professionals that have (UDM) at their headquarters to explain what the changes been (a) disciplined is nil and (b) dismissed is nil. mean for their members, and have contacted the miners’ pension schemes to ensure all retired miners would be Incapacity Benefit aware of the change. Press releases and posters containing contact details for advice on claiming have supported Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work that strategy and its effectiveness has already been and Pensions what estimate her Department has made demonstrated by the numbers of claims already received. of the average cost of re-assessment of an existing I am satisfied with our publicity arrangements, and do incapacity benefit claimant as part of the programme to not plan to routinely make officials available to attend migrate the current incapacity benefit population onto public meetings. the employment and support allowance by 2013; and Prescribed Disease A6 (commonly known as Beat how much her Department plans to spend on assessing Knee) has been covered by the IIDB scheme since 1958. the existing incapacity benefit population in (a) 2009-10, It is well known and we have no plans to further (b) 2010-11, (c) 2011-12 and (d) 2012-13. [288519] publicise this disease.

Jonathan Shaw: The average cost of a medical assessment John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work for an incapacity benefits claimant is commercially and Pensions what provision her Department is making sensitive and can not be provided. with ATOS Origin to allow local and cost-effective Planned expenditure on medical assessments for existing medical examinations for beat knee and osteoarthritis incapacity benefits customers is detailed in the following of the knee industrial injury claims. [286878] table. Medical assessment expenditure Jonathan Shaw: Atos Origin IT Services Ltd. (Atos £ million Healthcare) has Medical Examination Centres (MEC) across the country.All DWP customers claiming Industrial 2009-10 20 Injuries Disablement Benefit (IIDB) for beat knee and 2010-11 45 osteoarthritis of the knee will be asked to attend the 2011-12 35 MEC nearest to their home. In addition the DWP do 2012-13 35 not require customers to travel further than 90 minutes, Notes: each way, by public transport. Where there is no MEC 1, Figures include the planned expenditure on reassessing incapacity within 90 minutes of a customer’s home address, Atos benefits claimants under the Personal Capability Assessment and the Healthcare can make alternative arrangements. additional funding to reassess incapacity benefits customers under the Work Capability Assessment. Discussions are under way between the DWP and 2. Figures are rounded to the nearest £5 million. Atos Healthcare to secure the best value for money Industrial Injuries solution to deliver this new requirement. John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many industrial injury claims for and Pensions if she will estimate the average weekly beat knee and osteoarthritis of the knee were submitted saving to the public purse of an individual delaying in advance of the July start date for compensation making a claim for industrial injury benefit for beat payments. [286879] knee and osteoarthritis of the knee. [286875] Jonathan Shaw: 4,834 claims for osteoarthritis of the Jonathan Shaw: Osteoarthritis of the knee was added knee were received before the law came into force on to the list of diseases covered by the industrial injuries 13 July 2009 to include this disease in the industrial scheme on 13 July 2009. The disease PDA6 (commonly injuries scheme. known as ‘Beat Knee’) has been prescribed since 1958. Prescribed Disease A6, commonly known as ’Beat Any person who feels they may be eligible to claim Knee’, has been on the list of diseases covered by the for either disease should do so as soon as possible. scheme since 1958. There were 880 new claims for Awards may be backdated up to three months. If a Prescribed Disease A6 received during the period October person makes a claim for osteoarthritis of the knee 2007 to September 2008. This is the latest full year within three months of 13 July 2009, any award may be validated figures held for that disease. backdated to that date only, as no payment can be made for the period before the law changed. Source: Clerical Count 100 per cent. data John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if she will make available expert advisers John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work from her Department to inform the public of beat knee and Pensions what guidance her Department has and osteoarthritis of the knee industrial injury claims at issued to claimants of industrial injury benefit for beat public meetings organised by hon. Members. [286877] knee or osteoarthritis of the knee on charges levied by claims handlers. [286880] Jonathan Shaw: The communication strategy for osteoarthritis of the knee has been deliberately targeted Jonathan Shaw: Osteoarthritis of the knee was added at the most effective means of reaching the mining to the industrial injuries disablement benefit scheme on community.My officials have met with senior representatives 13 July 2009. We have made it clear in our publicity that of the National Union of Mineworkers (NUM), National customers do not need to involve solicitors and they Association of Colliery Overmen, Deputies and Shotfirers should contact Jobcentre Plus industrial injury disablement (NACODS), and the Union of Democratic Mineworkers benefit offices direct for advice about claiming. 841W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 842W

Prescribed Disease A6 (commonly known as Beat part-time work to take place on days when they are not Knee) has been covered by the industrial injury disablement regularly employed. [284421] benefit scheme since 1958. The Jobcentre Plus leaflet covering industrial injury disablement benefit advises Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a individuals to contact their local Jobcentre Plus industrial matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, injury disablement benefit regional centre if they require Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. more information or want to make a claim. Member with the information requested. Letter from Mel Groves: John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question and Pensions how many advertisements her Department asking if she will issue guidance to Jobcentre Plus that it should has placed to explain industrial injury benefit claims for seek to schedule regular meetings with jobseekers in part-time beat knee and osteoarthritis of the knee in the last 12 work to take place on days when they are not regularly employed. months. [286881] This is something that falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. Jonathan Shaw: We have not placed any paid-for Regular face-to-face contact with people is the most effective advertisements in the last 12 months. We have, however, method of helping them find work quickly, and ensuring they produced 500 posters to publicise the new entitlement remain entitled to payment of benefit by demonstrating they are to industrial injuries disablement benefit for miners actively seeking work. People claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance are with osteoarthritis of the knee. These have been distributed therefore usually required to attend their nearest Jobcentre for to MPs in their constituencies, and the major miners’ regular jobsearch reviews and more in-depth interviews with a personal adviser if they do not find work quickly. Where someone unions to distribute through their networks (including is undertaking part-time work we will make every effort to make National Association of Colliery Overmen, Deputies alternative arrangements to accommodate their part time working and Shotfirers [NACODS], Union of Democratic patterns. We will, however, ensure that the guidance is clarified in Mineworkers [UDM], and National Union of Mineworkers this respect. [NUM]). In addition, we have sent articles to pension trustees Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work of the above unions to include in their newsletters and and Pensions (1) when the results of the next Jobcentre other communications. We have also placed an article in Plus staff survey will be reported; and if she will place September’s edition of Touchbase, the Department for in the Library a copy of that report; [286638] Work and Pension’s newsletter for its advisers. (2) if she will place in the Library a copy of the We have worked with national and local media outlets results of each of the three most recent Jobcentre Plus to explain the change and achieved free coverage in the staff surveys. [286639] Daily Mirror, on the BBC news website, and throughout the country, particularly in mining and former mining Jim Knight: Copies of the three most recent sets of communities, including the Newcastle Journal, Northern survey results for Jobcentre Plus, from the Department Echo, Hartlepool Mail, Sunderland Echo, Wigan Observer, for Work and Pensions Surveys conducted in 2009, Warwickshire Telegraph, Coventry Telegraph, Nuneaton 2008 and 2006, have been placed in the Library. There News, Staffordshire Newsletter and the Sheffield Star. was no staff survey in 2007 as surveys were conducted Kitty Ussher visited the National Coal Mining Museum in November 2006 and January 2008. in Wakefield, along with representatives from NUM As part of the Cabinet Office cross-Government and NACODS. The visit was covered by the Yorkshire employee engagement programme the next staff survey Post, Yorkshire Star and Sheffield Telegraph newspapers, of Jobcentre Plus, which is part of the Department for as well as BBC Look North and BBC Radio Leeds. Work and Pensions Survey, will take place in October/ Kitty Ussher wrote a letter advising potential applicants November 2009. Results will be available in January/ in South Wales to apply direct to Jobcentre Plus, after February 2010. The results will be placed in the Library. local solicitors were found to be targeting miners. The letter was published in the Bridgend & Porthcawl Gem, Jobcentre Plus: Buildings South Wales Echo, Western Mail and the Cynon Valley Leader. John Barrett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) whether her Department consulted John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work disability organisations on the most recent programme and Pensions how many claim forms for industrial of refurbishment to Jobcentre Plus offices; [284017] injuries disablement benefit in relation to beat knee or (2) whether the tendering contract for the most osteoarthritis of the knee have been (a) ordered from recent refurbishment to the Jobcentre Plus offices and (b) returned to her Department by claims stipulated the provision of accessible seating for elderly handlers working for the company BCP. [287016] and disabled people in Jobcentre Plus offices. [284247] Jonathan Shaw: Jobcentre Plus does not keep information about the number of industrial injuries disablement Jim Knight [holding answer 3 July 2009]: The benefit claim forms ordered by and returned from claims administration of Jobcentre Plus is a matter for the handlers and individual organisations. acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. Member with the Jobcentre Plus information requested. Letter from Mel Groves: Mr. Brady: To ask the Secretary of State for Work The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your questions and Pensions if she will instruct Jobcentre Plus staff to asking: whether her Department consulted disability organisations seek to schedule regular meetings with jobseekers in prior to the most recent programme of refurbishment to Jobcentre 843W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 844W

Plus offices and whether the tendering contract for the most Jobcentre Plus: Essex recent refurbishment to the Jobcentre Plus offices stipulated the provision of accessible seating in Jobcentre Plus offices. This is something that falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. and Pensions what the rate of (a) absence and (b) During the programme to roll out Jobcentre Plus offices, in the absence resulting from injury at work was among period 2002 to 2006, Jobcentre Plus worked in partnership with Jobcentre Plus employees in (i) Essex and (ii) Castle the Department’s Diversity and Equality specialist, to ensure the Point in each of the last five years; what estimate she changes met the needs of all our customers. The Jobcentre Plus Project developed a Jobcentre Plus Environmental Guide (JPEG) has made of the cost to the public purse of such in association with the project architects which referenced all absences; and if she will make a statement. [283886] relevant external legislation including the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA). DDA requires all providers of public services to Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a ensure that services to customers can be accessed by all, whether that is in regard to the physical office environments or by other matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, means. The JPEG was reviewed throughout the rollout programme Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. to ensure compliance with the Act. This was reflected both in the Member with the information requested. standards and specifications deployed in the physical refurbishment Letter from Mel Groves: of our offices and in the design of specific components. The tendering exercise for the national roll out of Jobcentre The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question Plus offices between 2002 and 2006 identified a range of customer asking what the rate of (a) absence and (b) absence resulting from seating which complied with statutory requirements. The scope of injury at work was among Jobcentre Plus employees in (i) Essex the tenders included a range of design options that took account and (ii) Castle Point in each of the last five years; and what of our business-related Health and Safety considerations and also estimate she has made of the cost to the public purse of these met key customer needs such as comfort, visibility and ease of absences. This is something that falls within the responsibilities use. Consultation with the Department’s Diversity and Equality delegated to me as Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. specialists provided Jobcentre Plus with assurances that the broadest The system we use to monitor sick absence is a relatively new range of customer requirements would be met. system so I am only able to provide data from May 2007 to June As part of the planning for delivery of services through the 2009. I have therefore detailed below the average working days new Jobcentre Plus network, each District drew up a local service lost per member of staff in Jobcentre Plus in Essex between June delivery plan which was the subject of consultation with a range 2007 and May 2008, and between June 2008 and May 2009 along of local stakeholders, including customer representatives. Customer with the associated financial cost. I am unable to provide you with Service Directors have recently been asked to review their existing details for Castle Point as we do not record them for this area service delivery arrangements in meeting the challenge of the specifically. current economic climate, taking account of the planned welfare reform changes for the next two to three years. Average work Total cost This exercise has identified that a number of Jobcentre Plus days lost to sickness of sickness days (in days) lost (£) offices currently face capacity pressures. These pressures will be met through a range of solutions. This includes making our June 2008 to May 8.79 964,874 services more accessible to customers by providing a range of 2009 support through outreach, often delivering advisory and other June 2007 to May 11.17 1,072,866 support on partners’ premises. We are supplementing these measures 2008 by operating extended opening hours in some locations where the need for this is identified locally, including some offices opening The level of sickness absence data that Jobcentre Plus collects to the public on Saturday. In the light of the increase in customer does not allow us to identify specific work related injuries as the demand we have embarked on a programme to convert or extend cause of sickness absence. our existing buildings where necessary, deploying existing components Jobcentre Plus is very aware of the negative impact of sickness including similar seating to that already installed as part of the absence on customer service and is committed to improving 2002-2006 roll out of Jobcentre Plus offices. performance in this area. Indeed, our strategies are delivering However, we will only acquire new space where all other considerable success, with the latest data confirming the improving measures are insufficient. trend we have seen over the last 16 months. We remain committed to securing further improvements. John Barrett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work In addition, we are embarking upon a major health and and Pensions how much her Department has spent on wellbeing programme across all of our sites. The programme projects to refurbish Jobcentre Plus offices since 2001. provides staff with a wealth of information and guidance to [284018] support healthier lifestyles. It gives them access to a confidential on-line health and wellbeing assessment and delivers targeted Jim Knight [holding answer 3 July 2009]: The solutions to support the individual. The programme also provides managers at our Jobcentres with comprehensive information administration of Jobcentre Plus is a matter for the about the potential health risks to staff, ensuring specific preventative acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, Mel Groves. I action is taken to address the issues. have asked him to provide the hon. Member with the information requested. My District Manager for Essex, Neil Brettell, will be happy to talk to you further if you have any further questions. He can be Letter from Mel Groves: contacted on 01245 214242, by post at Government Buildings, The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has asked me to Beeches Road, Chelmsford, Essex CM1 2RT or by email at respond to your question asking how much her Department has [email protected] spent on projects to refurbish Jobcentre Plus offices since 2001. This is something which falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Jobcentre Plus came into being in April 2002. The refurbishment and Pensions how many jobs have been advertised at of Jobcentre Plus offices was carried out over five years as part of customer-facing Jobcentre Plus units in (a) Essex and the £1.9 billion rollout of the Jobcentre Plus office network, (b) Castle Point in each of the last 12 months; and if which included estates refurbishment costs of £782 million. she will make a statement. [283887] 845W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 846W

Jim Knight: All Jobcentre Plus offices have access to The number of vacancies advertised for Essex and all vacancies advertised by Jobcentre Plus. Each office the Castle Point constituency in the latest 12 months for has jobpoints that allow jobseekers to search for jobs by which data are available are shown in the following various criteria including location. Therefore jobseekers table. using the Jobcentre Plus offices in Essex and Castle Point will be able to access the same vacancies as would a jobseeker in any other part of the country.

Number of notified vacancies Number of live unfilled vacancies Essex Castle point Essex Castle point

June 2008 8,144 331 6,606 331 July 2008 6,706 270 6,662 366 August 2008 8,203 210 6,633 259 September 2008 6,299 263 5,939 253 October 2008 6,864 263 6,185 318 November 2008 6,855 180 5,803 188 December 2008 3,923 135 4,311 168 January 2009 2,241 108 2,687 103 February 2009 6,150 329 3,890 164 March 2009 4,782 254 3,954 226 April 2009 4,534 231 3,758 125 May 2009 5,503 246 4,112 241 Notes: 1. Interpretation of these data need to take account of changes in recent years to Jobcentre Plus procedures for taking and handling vacancies. These figures are not fully comparable over time and may not indicate developments in the labour market. A more detailed explanation is available on the nomis website. 2. Notified vacancies include any speculative placings recorded by Jobcentre Plus. Datasets from May 2006 may reflect substantially reduced levels of speculative placings as part of the notified series. Consequently, care should be taken in interpreting time-series data. 3. The stocks of unfilled vacancies reflect more accurately job opportunities available via Jobcentre Plus. In the case of unfilled vacancies, use of the figures on live vacancies is recommended (that is, excluding suspended vacancies), and this is the default option. Live vacancies may still include some vacancies which have already been filled or are otherwise no longer open to recruits, due to natural time lags in procedures for following up vacancies with employers. 4. Data are unrounded. 5. Comprehensive estimates of all job vacancies (not just those notified to Jobcentre Plus) have been available from the monthly ONS Vacancy Survey since April 2001, based on a sample of some 6,000 enterprises. However, the ONS survey is currently designed to provide national estimates only. Source: Jobcentre Plus Labour Market System.

Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Work acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, Mel Groves. I and Pensions whether free at the point of use have asked him to provide the right hon. Member with telephones are available to Jobcentre Plus customers in the information requested. each jobcentre in Essex. [286356] Letter from Mel Groves: The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has asked me to Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a reply to your question asking how much and what proportion of matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, its annual budget Jobcentre Plus plans to spend on (a) staff and Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. (b) Jobcentre Plus programmes in (i) 2009-10 and (ii) 2010-11. Member with the information requested. This is something that falls within the responsibilities delegated to Letter from Mel Groves: me as Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. The available information is provided below. The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question asking whether free at the point of use telephones are available to Employment programme budgets are not held by Jobcentre Jobcentre Plus customers in each Jobcentre in Essex. This is Plus but are controlled centrally by DWP. something that falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Jobcentre Plus administration budget Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. £ million We have Customer Access Telephones in all our Jobcentres in Essex. These telephones are free for our customers to access a 2009/10 3,683 range of services. They are primarily used to make enquires about 2010/11 3,951 benefit claims and other services offered by us. They can also be Source: used to contact employers and other agencies that can help DWP Three Year Business Plan customers find work. On request we can also make other telephones Based on our indicative plans for 2009/10, our best estimate is available, at no cost, for customers to telephone prospective that approximately 70 per cent of the Jobcentre Plus administration employers or make other relevant calls. budget will be spent on staff costs. The remaining 30 per cent will be spent on other non staff related costs. Detailed planning for Jobcentre Plus: Finance 2010/11 has not yet commenced but it is expected that a similar proportion will also be spent on staff costs in that year. Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how much and what proportion of its Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Work annual budget Jobcentre Plus plans to spend on (a) and Pensions on which programmes the planned staff and (b) Jobcentre Plus programmes in (i) 2009-10 additional £3 billion funding allocation to Jobcentre and (ii) 2010-11. [278232] Plus will be spent. [285988] Jim Knight [holding answer 8 June 2009]: The Jim Knight: The Department was allocated £1.7 billion administration of Jobcentre Plus is a matter for the additional funding in the Budget 2009 in addition to the 847W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 848W

£1.3 billion announced in the pre-Budget report in Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a November 2008 to fund additional volumes. The funding matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, will be used to support Jobcentre Plus activity and to Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the right hon. fund additional long-term employment programmes. Member with the information requested. The funding for long-term employment programmes Letter from Mel Groves: is £620 million as announced in Budget 2009, plus £350 The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question million announced at the pre-Budget report 2008. Most asking how many Jobcentre Plus offices operate extended opening of the provision for the long-term unemployed will be hours. This is something that falls within the responsibilities provided through the Flexible New Deal over the next delegated to me as acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. two years. However phased implementation means that Extending opening hours is one of the ways in which we are there will still be some expenditure on New Deal and responding to the demands on our service. The precise numbers Employment Zones programmes over the next two years. of offices operating extended hours will vary week by week depending on the need. Jobcentre Plus: Job Description However, as an example, between 15 and 28 June a total of 301 Jobcentres opened to customers on Saturday, 21 opened to customers on Sunday and 63 opened for extra hours during the week. Our Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Service Delivery plans are kept under constant review to make and Pensions what guidance her Department gives to sure we offer the best possible service to meet the needs of our jobcentres on procedures to ensure that job customers. advertisements placed with them are genuine. [285813] Jobcentre Plus: Qualifications Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, Paul Rowen: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. and Pensions whether she has made an assessment of Member with the information requested. the merits of requiring minimum qualifications for Letter from Mel Groves: Jobcentre Plus personal advisers; and if she will make a The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has asked me to statement. [275406] reply to your question asking what guidance is given to jobcentres on procedures to ensure that job advertisements placed with them Jim Knight: The administration of Jobcentre Plus is a are genuine. This is something that falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. matter for the acting chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, Mel Groves. I have asked him to provide the hon. The following guidance is provided to Jobcentre Plus staff when handling vacancies from employers to ensure they are Member with the information requested. genuine. When advertising with Jobcentre Plus employers must Letter from Ruth Owen: provide us with: The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question a full and clear job description (which is lawful and unambiguous to James Purnell asking whether he had made an assessment of to our customers) the merits of requiring minimum qualifications for Jobcentre Plus a rate of pay equal to or more than that stated in the National personal advisers. This is something that falls within the responsibilities Minimum Wage Act delegated to Mel Groves as Acting Chief Executive of Jobcentre a guarantee that all other terms and conditions of employment Plus. As Mel Groves is currently on annual leave, I am replying in are lawful; and his absence. an assurance that all jobs are available on an open and fair I have recently commissioned a review to develop an accreditation basis to jobseeking customers using our services. strategy for a number of key job roles across Jobcentre Plus, which will include the personal adviser role. The results of this To ensure wherever possible that the employers and their review will be available in the Autumn. vacancies are genuine we also require: Currently, within the recruitment process all Jobcentre Plus a full postal address personal advisers are required to meet a minimum entry standard. a landline telephone number This is assessed through testing literacy and numeracy. Successful contact name, position with the company and direct telephone candidates will then go to the second stage interview where the number individual’s relevant competencies are examined. the type of business they are involved in Once recruited, in addition to an internal learning programme we invest in the S/NVQ programme where personal advisers work the number of employees they have at the individual site; and towards an externally recognised qualification in ‘advice and a verbal/written National Minimum Wage assurance. guidance’. This is not a mandatory requirement. To ensure vacancies advertised by recruitment agencies are genuine, the recruitment agency must sign a service level agreement agreeing to the terms under which Jobcentre Plus will advertise Jobcentre Plus: Telephone Services their vacancies. This agreement specifies that all vacancies must be genuine and the agency must supply details of the employer on John Battle: To ask the Secretary of State for Work whose behalf they are advertising. and Pensions what steps her Department is taking to Jobcentre Plus also contacts all employers 48 hours after their ensure the provision of access to freephone Government vacancy was advertised to discuss the vacancy and this provides helplines in Jobcentre Plus offices for benefit claimants; additional assurance that the employer and vacancy are genuine. and if she will make a statement. [278372]

Jobcentre Plus: Opening Hours Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if she will instruct Jobcentre Plus to Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work ensure all calls to social fund offices are free of charge and Pensions how many Jobcentre Plus offices operate to customers using either landline or mobile telephones. extended opening hours. [271697] [282636] 849W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 850W

Jim Knight: The Department believes strongly that New Deal Schemes: Essex calls to its 0800 numbers should be free to mobile phone users as they already are to callers from landlines. Officials from the Department have accordingly held Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Work discussions with the Telephone Helplines Association, and Pensions how many people in (a) Essex and (b) and with mobile telephone operators, seeking to secure Castle Point have participated in a New Deal the Department’s customers a free service when contacting programme in each of the last three years. [282435] the Department’s 0800 numbers via a mobile phone. These discussions are continuing. Jim Knight: The figures for New Deal starters in Essex and in Castle Point are shown in the tables: Jobseeker’s Allowance (a) Essex 2006 2007 2008

Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work New deal for young people— 2,450 2,640 2,590 and Pensions if she will estimate the proportion of starters (spells) jobseeker’s allowance claimants of each age who have New deal 25+—starters (spells) 1,260 2,140 1,740 skills levels equivalent to less than level 2. [287316] New deal for lone parents— 2,240 2.940 4,730 starters (spells) New deal for disabled people— 930 940 1,070 Jim Knight [holding answer 15 July 2009]: The starters (spells) information requested is not available. New deal 50+—starters 260 130 100 (individuals) New deal for partners—starters 10 10 40 Jobseeker’s Allowance: Fraud (individuals)

(b) Castle Point Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for 2006 2007 2008 Work and Pensions how many applications for jobseeker’s allowance were rejected owing to fraudulent documents New deal for young people— 120 130 150 being used in support of such applications in each of starters (spells) the last five years. [281986] New deal 25+—starters (spells) 60 90 60 New deal for lone parents— 130 180 330 starters (spells) Jim Knight: We do not record the number of applications New deal for disabled people— 100 80 80 for jobseeker’s allowance (JSA) rejected due to fraudulent starters (spells) documents being used. However, we can provide reassurance New deal 50+—starters 10 10 — that rigorous checks of all documentation are undertaken (individuals) when an application to JSA is made. If there is a New deal for partners—starters ——10 (individuals) suspicion about the validity of the documentation produced, Notes: the case is referred to our Fraud Investigation Service. 1. Westminster Parliamentary Constituency (post May 2005) is allocated using The claim will not be put into payment until the questions the ONS postcode directory and customer’s postcode. around the documentation are resolved. 2. Time series—year of starting: the calendar year of starting the New Deal. Latest data is to February 2009. 3. The measure used for New Deal 50 Plus and New Deal for Partners is Starters (individuals) as spells are not available in these cases. Jobseeker’s Allowance: Personation 4. Since June 2008, the New Deal for Disabled People has ceased to operate as a national programme. 5. Figures are rounded to the nearest ten. Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for Source: Work and Pensions how many individuals have been Department for Work and Pensions Information Directorate. Figures are found to be claiming jobseeker’s allowance under a available at: http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/tabtools/tabtool_nd.asp false or stolen identity in each of the last five years. [281987] New Deal: Pathways to Work Jim Knight: The information requested is not available. John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Lone Parents: Employment Work and Pensions what (a) criminal and (b) administrative penalties are available in respect of contractors for work Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for Work under the (i) New Deal and (ii) Pathways to Work and Pensions how many and what proportion of the programmes found to have defrauded her Department; lone parents who were moved from income support and if she will make a statement. [283974] onto jobseeker’s allowance as a result of changes to benefit rules in December 2008 are in employment; and Jim Knight: All DWP Welfare to Work contracts, if she will make a statement. [286481] including Pathways to Work and New Deal programmes, include mandatory clauses outlining the remedies where Jim Knight: Due to unavoidable time lags in the contractor fraud is committed. Remedies range from a collation and assessment of our benefits and employment formal warning with the recovery of any amounts paid data, the Department cannot provide this information by the Department in respect of any fraud or financial at this point in time. Our comprehensive evaluation of irregularity and damages that are appropriate through Lone Parent Obligations will address benefit transitions to termination of contract. Contracts will be terminated and employment outcomes and this information will be where the breach of the contract terms is sufficiently available in due course. serious. 851W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 852W

DWP deals with minor irregularities internally. Where Pension Credit: North East the Department believes the matter is more serious, and where there may be sufficient evidence for a prosecution, Dr. Kumar: To ask the Secretary of State for Work the matter will be referred to the police. and Pensions how many pension credit recipients live in DWP will always investigate any allegations and take Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland action where there is sufficient evidence for us to do so. constituency. [280704]

John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Angela Eagle As at November 2008, there were 5,230 Work and Pensions how many investigations her households in receipt of pension credit in Middlesbrough, Department is undertaking into contracts for (a) New South and East Cleveland constituency. Deal and (b) Pathways to Work. [283975] Notes: 1. The number of households in receipt are rounded to the nearest Jim Knight: The Department is undertaking four 10. investigations into contracts for New Deal and one 2. Household recipients are those people who claim pension investigation into contracts for Pathways to Work. credit either for themselves only or on behalf of a household. Source: Pension Credit: Bexley DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100 per cent. data. Mr. Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many households in (a) Bexleyheath Pension Service: Internet and Crayford constituency and (b) the London Borough of Bexley have received pension credit in each Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for year since its inception. [286690] Work and Pensions how many upgrades have been made to the Pension Service’s state pension forecast Angela Eagle: The information requested is in the e-service system since September 2008; when each following table. upgrade was made; for how long the online form was unavailable as a result of each upgrade; and if she will Household recipients of pension credit make a statement. [287547] As at November Bexleyheath and Crayford Bexley local each year parliamentary constituency authority Angela Eagle: Since September 2008 there have been 2003 2,030 5,280 three upgrades of the online state pension forecasting 2004 2,690 7,020 service. 2005 2,810 7,250 To implement these upgrades, the online service was 2006 2,820 7,340 unavailable as follows: 2007 2,780 7,360 2008 2,770 7,390 From 00.00 on 24 October 2008 to 07:00 on 27 October 2008 Notes: From 17:00 on 23 January 2009 to 07:00 on 26 January 2009 1. The number of households in receipt are rounded to the nearest 10. From 19:00 on 3 April 2009 to 01:00 on 4 April 2009 2. Household recipients are those people who claim Pension Credit either for themselves only or on behalf of a household. Times are given using the 24 hour clock. Source: DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100 per Pensioners: Council Tax cent data Pension Credit: Derbyshire Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if she will make an assessment of the Mr. McLoughlin: To ask the Secretary of State for effect on the disposable income and quality of life of Work and Pensions how many households in (a) pensioners in receipt of pension credit of changes in Derbyshire and (b) West Derbyshire have received council tax levels over the last 10 years. [275481] pension credit in each year since its inception. [286415] Angela Eagle: Pension credit was introduced in October Angela Eagle: The information requested is in the 2003. Between then and 2007-08 (the latest data available) following table. average council tax liability for pension credit recipients has remained the same at around 7 per cent. of net Household recipients of pension credit income. West Derbyshire As at November each Derbyshire local parliamentary Notes: year authority constituency 1. Receipt of the guarantee credit element of pension credits brings entitlement to full help with a council tax bill through 2003 25,700 2,470 council tax benefit. 2004 34,090 3,400 2005 35,140 3,540 2. Based on the family resources survey and as such subject to a degree of sampling and non-sampling error. 2006 35,420 3,590 2007 35,120 3,510 Pensioners: Poverty 2008 34,800 3,560 Notes: 1. The number of households in receipt are rounded to the nearest 10. Steve Webb: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2. Household recipients are those people who claim pension credit either for and Pensions if she will estimate the number of themselves only or on behalf of a household. pensioners that would be lifted out of poverty if Source: DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100 per take-up of means-tested benefits was 100 per cent.; and cent. data if she will make a statement. [287325] 853W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 854W

Angela Eagle: Our latest estimates show that if there (ii) Social services were 100 per cent. take-up of all income related benefits The following table shows the gross current expenditure by pensioners entitled to them the number of pensioners by York council on social services for people aged 65 or below 60 per cent. of contemporary median income, over from 1996-97 to 2007-08. after housing costs, would fall by around 700,000, after housing costs have been taken into account, based on Gross current expenditure1 by York council on older people (aged 65 2008-09 benefit rates. or over) Gross current expenditure 1 April to 31 March (£000) Pensioners: Social Security Benefits 1996-97 15,200 Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 1997-98 16,300 and Pensions what the average monetary value of 1998-99 17,400 benefits in kind provided by her Department was to 1999-2000 18,700 (a) single pensioners and (b) pensioner couples in 2000-01 19,100 York in respect of (i) NHS services, (ii) social services, 2001-02 19,400 (iii) travel concessions, (iv) television licences, (v) 2002-032 23,500 insulation and home repairs and improvements grants 2003-043 21,900 and (vi) other services in each year since 1996-97. 2004-05 25,600 [286008] 2005-06 27,500 2006-07 27,600 Angela Eagle: A wide range of services and benefits 2007-08 27,600 in kind are available to older people and these are 1 Gross expenditure includes income from client contributions, but administered both centrally and locally. As a result, the excludes capital charges and certain income items which count as information is not available in the format requested: expenditure elsewhere in the public sector, such as contributions from primary care trusts. This is to avoid double counting within the some information is not collected and some could be aggregate public sector accounts of the money involved. obtained only at disproportionate cost. The information 2 From 2002-03 onwards, the data includes clients who transferred to which is available is given as follows. council with social services responsibilities (CSSR) support on 8 April 2002, who were formally in receipt of higher rates of income support (i) NHS services under the Department for Work and Pensions preserved rights scheme. People aged 60 and over are able to claim free 3 From 2003-04, additional funding was made available to CSSRs via prescriptions and eye tests on the grounds of age. the Supporting People grant. Detailed information on prescription charges is not Source: R03 and PSS EX1 returns held in the format requested. Free NHS sight tests were made available to people aged 60 and over from 1 April 1999. Information on the (iii) Travel concessions average value of NHS sight tests provided to people The statutory minimum travel concession, introduced aged 60 and over within the area of the former York in April 2008, gives those aged 60 or over and eligible and Selby PCT is only available on a consistent basis for disabled people free off-peak local bus travel in any part the three years 2003-04 to 2005-06 and is set out in the of England. The Government provide around £1 billion following table. a year to fund the concession.

Number of free Estimated cost of Travel concession schemes are provided through local NHS sight tests NHS sight tests to authorities, which have flexibility to enhance their schemes given to people aged people aged 60 and to offer more than the statutory minimum, so there are Financial year 60 and over over (£) local variations in what is offered and take-up of 2003-04 26,254 453,144 concessionary travel also varies from one area to another. Therefore it is not possible to quantify the value of the 2004-05 26,619 474,351 benefit in kind in a specific local authority area. 2005-06 25,057 460,798 (iv) Television licences PCT were restructured in October 2006 and no equivalent Free television licences for people aged 75 or over data for 2006-07 are available. Information for 2007-08 were introduced in November 2000. TV Licensing, who is available for the North Yorkshire and York PCT area administer free licences as agents for the BBC, are not and is set out in the following table. able to provide geographical breakdowns of licences issued. However, figures, shown in the following table, Number of free Estimated cost of NHS sight tests NHS sight tests to are available for the number of households with at least given to people aged people aged 60 and one person aged 75 or over claiming winter fuel payments Financial year 60 and over over (£) in York local authority. These people would be eligible for a free television licence. 2007-08 88,428 1,708,429 York local authority area NHS optical vouchers and free dental treatment may Number of households with additionally be available to individuals in receipt of someone aged 75 or over certain qualifying benefits, or if they have been assessed 2004-05 11,685 as eligible for assistance under the NHS Low Income 2005-06 11,930 Scheme. Information on the value of such NHS services 2006-07 12,070 is not available centrally and could be obtained only at 2007-08 12,240 disproportionate cost. 855W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 856W

Television licence fees for each year since the concession TV licence fees was introduced are shown in the following table: £ TV licence fees Colour Black and white £ 2009-10 142.50 48.00 Colour Black and white

2000-01 104.00 34.50 (v) Insulation 2001-02 109.00 36.50 The Warm Front scheme is the Government’s main 2002-03 112.00 37.50 programme for tackling fuel poverty in vulnerable 2003-04 116.00 38.50 households in the private sector in England. Warm 2004-05 121.00 40.50 Front provides grants for heating, insulation and energy 2005-06 126.50 42.00 efficiency measures. The following table displays the 2006-07 131.50 44.00 number of pensioner households that have received 2007-08 135.50 45.50 Warm Front assistance in the York local authority area 2008-09 139.50 47.00 since the scheme’s inception in 2000, and the average spend on each of those households.

Number of single Average spend per single Number of two pensioners Average spend per two pensioner households pensioner household households assisted in pensioner household assisted in York assisted (£) York assisted (£)

2000-01 63 345.50 16 791.74 2001-02 170 502.44 43 1,156.06 2002-03 184 611.81 46 1,424.28 2003-04 82 748.75 21 1,701.55 2004-05 87 693.71 22 1,596.59 2005-06 199 778.45 102 765.08 2006-07 364 753.92 252 657.25 2007-08 390 1,020.33 297 998.20 2008-09 199 1,741.24 155 1,612.50

Pensions in (i) 1996-97 and (ii) the latest date for which figures are available; and what the rates would have been if they had been uprated in line with earnings. [285753] Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what the rates of basic state pension Angela Eagle: The information requested is in the payable to (a) single pensioners and (b) couples were following table:

Financial year Level of the basic state pension (£ per week) Standard rate for couple where wife is reliant Standard rate on own contributions on husband’s insurance

1996-97 61.15 97.75 2009-10 (actual) 95.25 152.30 2009-10 (uprated by prices) 88.70 141.80 Notes: 1. All figures in cash terms. 2. Uprating calculations employ historic annual increase in the RPI series for September of the previous year. 3. There is no such thing as an actual ‘singles rate’ though the standard rate of the Category A pension is commonly referred to as the ‘singles rate’. Similarly the sum of the Category A and Category B(L) pension is often referred to as the ‘couples rate’. 4. Category B(L) pension is about 60 per cent. of the standard rate basic Category A pension. It is payable by virtue of a spouse’s qualifying years or earnings.

Pensions: Ex-servicemen have access to free prescriptions, dental treatment, eye tests and other NHS services. Mr. Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for For all means-tested benefits income is normally Work and Pensions for what reasons non-taxable war taken fully into account when calculating entitlement. disablement pension is not disregarded in means- However, a £10 disregard is applied to payments of War testing calculations for the provision of NHS and other Disablement Pension, War Widow’s Pension and their services to armed services veterans. [286405] replacement under the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme when calculating a person’s entitlement to these Jonathan Shaw: Access to NHS services is a matter benefits. This disregard, which gives war pensioners an for my hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health. advantage over other groups, is made in recognition of Armed service veterans who are in receipt of pension the special nature of these payments. credit, income support, income-based jobseeker’s allowance Certain elements paid with War Disablement Pension or income related employment and support allowance are disregarded in full. These are constant attendance 857W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 858W allowance, mobility supplement, severe disablement Social Security Benefits: Expenditure occupational allowance and dependency increases for anyone other than the applicant or his partner. Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work In addition to the statutory disregards mentioned, and Pensions if she will place in the Library a copy of local authorities, who administer housing benefit and each quarterly update of her Department’s benefit council tax benefit, have discretion to disregard all or expenditure tables produced in the last two years. part of a War Pension over and above the statutory £10 [285844] disregard. The cost of any further disregard is met by the local authority, not by central Government. It is, Jim Knight: The benefit expenditure tables are updated therefore, for each local authority to decide whether a every half year following each Budget and pre-Budget higher disregard should apply. report forecasting round. The tables are not formatted for printing, and their Research Report number and size means that formatting could be done only at disproportionate cost. However, they are made Mr. Waterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work available on the Department’s internet site for public and Pensions how many individuals in each birth access. cohort, as shown in Figure 4.3 on page 55 of DWP The 2009 Budget report benefit expenditure tables Research Report number 558, would be modelled as are currently on the Department’s website at having payback equivalent to having received at least http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd4/expenditure.asp the full value of the assumed rate of return used in the modelling; and what the equivalent figures are under State Retirement Pensions alternative scenarios (a) 1 and (b) 2 as referred to on page 57 of DWP Research Report number 558. Sandra Osborne: To ask the Secretary of State for [287114] Work and Pensions how many people have opted to defer their state pension in each year since the deferred Angela Eagle: The Department’s population-level scheme was introduced. [286673] modelling calculates payback rather than internal rate of return, and there is no simple correspondence between Angela Eagle: I refer the hon. Member to the written the two measures—for each individual it depends on answer that was given to the hon. Member for Eastbourne their patterns of saving and decumulation through time. (Mr. Waterson) on 19 November 2008, Official Report, As a result it would be a major exercise to calculate the column 570W. distribution of internal rates of return for birth cohorts, and the cost of producing this analysis would be State Retirement Pensions: Females disproportionate. Christine Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Sick Leave: Stress Work and Pensions what estimate she has made of the number of women who would become eligible to Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Work receive a full state pension if the reduction in the and Pensions how many working days were lost due to number of qualifying years required for those reaching stress-related illness in each of the last 30 years. the state pension age at or after 6 April 2010 were [286290] applied to all women in receipt of a state pension in 2010-11; and what estimate she has made of the cost to Jonathan Shaw: The information the HSE holds on the Exchequer of such an extension. [284491] the estimated working days lost due to stress is as follows: Angela Eagle: It is estimated that an extra 850,000 women in Great Britain would become eligible to receive Estimated days lost due to stress, anxiety and depression a full basic state pension based on their own contributions Days lost—rounded to nearest if the number of qualifying years necessary to receive a 1,000 full basic state pension were lowered from 39 to 30, 2007-08 13,547,000 along with the implementation of other changes in the 2006-07 13,760,000 2007 pension reforms, for women already in receipt of a 2005-06 10,537,000 basic state pension in April 2010. 2004-05 12,820,000 Calculating basic state pension entitlement on the 2003-04 12,803,000 basis of 30 qualifying years, along with the implementation 2001-02 12,919,000 of other changes in the 2007 pension reforms, for women 19951 6,465,000 pensioners would cost around £1 billion (2009-10 price 1 The figure for 1995 was gathered using a different method from terms) in 2010 (net of income-related benefits). those for subsequent years, but is included for completeness; it should not be used for comparison purposes. Unemployed: Qualifications The Health and Safety Executive collects this information by commissioning a self-reported work-related ill-health Mr. Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for Work (SWI) survey conducted on its behalf by the Office for and Pensions how many applicants for Jobcentre Plus National Statistics as part of its Labour Force Survey. registered qualifications at levels one to five in (a) No data is available before 1995 and the SWI Survey London and (b) Enfield in (i) 2008 and (ii) 2009 to has not always been conducted on an annual basis. date. [286006] 859W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 860W

Jim Knight: The information requested is not available. of unemployment benefits (a) in current prices and (b) as a percentage of gross domestic product in each Unemployment Benefits year since 1997. [285697]

Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Jim Knight: The information requested is shown in and Pensions what the cost to the Exchequer has been the following table.

Benefit expenditure to unemployed, Great Britain £ million (at 2009-10 prices) Jobseeker’s Total benefit Percentage of Housing benefit Council tax benefit allowance expenditure GDP

1997-98 2,255 413 5,109 7,777 0.7 1998-99 1,820 348 4,571 6,739 0.6 1999-2000 1,581 315 4,102 5,998 0.5 2000-01 1,408 281 3,585 5,274 0.4 2001-02 1,266 247 3,170 4,684 0.4 2002-03 1,270 236 3,093 4,599 0.4 2003-04 1,098 248 2,933 4,279 0.3 2004-05 1,216 243 2,459 3,918 0.3 2005-06 1,271 264 2,527 4,061 0.3 2006-07 1,327 259 2,596 4,182 0.3 2007-08 1,329 251 2,323 3,903 0.3 2008-09 (estimated outturn) 1,645 299 2,909 4,854 0.3 Note: GDP percentages calculated using HM Treasury Budget Report 2009. Source (benefit expenditure): DWP statistical and accounting data.

Unemployment: Hemsworth access to jobs supported by recruitment subsidies, skills training or volunteering opportunities for adults who Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work have been unemployed for six months or more. [284959] and Pensions what the level of (a) claimant unemployment, (b) youth unemployment and (c) long-term unemployment Jim Knight: On 6 April 2009, the Department introduced was in Hemsworth constituency (i) in 1997 and (ii) at the an offer of extra support for customers who have been latest date for which information is available. [288692] claiming jobseeker’s allowance for six months. This included access to recruitment subsidies, work-focused Angela E. Smith: I have been asked to reply. training and volunteering opportunities. Jobcentre Plus The information requested falls within the responsibility personal advisers discuss these options with customers of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority at interview. to reply. For the work-focused training element of the six-month Letter from Karen Dunnell, July 2009: offer, customers in Oxfordshire will be referred to Oxford As National Statistician, I have been asked to reply to your and Cherwell Valley college or in some cases Newbury Parliamentary Question asking what the level of (a) claimant college if they reside in South Oxfordshire. These colleges unemployment, (b) youth unemployment and (c) long-term have been contracted by the Learning and Skills Council unemployment was in Hemsworth constituency (i) in 1997 and (ii) for delivering this part of the six-month offer in Oxfordshire. at the latest date for which information is available. (288692) The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles unemployment BTCV are the lead organisation responsible for delivering statistics for local areas from the Annual Population Survey and access to volunteering opportunities in England. In its predecessor the annual Labour Force Survey (LFS) following partnership with v, Volunteering England and Community International Labour Organisation (ILO) definitions. Estimates Service Volunteers, they run a brokerage network offering of youth unemployment and long term unemployment are not work-focused volunteering opportunities to eligible available for the Hemsworth constituency due to the small sample jobseekers. size. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles the number Jobcentre Plus is responsible for the delivery of the of claimants of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) from the Jobcentre recruitment subsidy throughout England, Scotland and Plus administrative system. The number of persons claiming JSA Wales. The recruitment subsidy is available through two in June 1997 was 2,400 and in June 2009 was 2,300. delivery channels: it can either be issued as a voucher to National and local area estimates for many labour market individual jobseeker’s allowance customers by their statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant Jobcentre Plus personal adviser, or multiple vouchers count are available on the NOMIS website at: can be delivered to employers with higher volume or http://www.nomisweb.co.uk long-term recruitment plans who are working with Jobcentre Plus account managers. Unemployment: Oxfordshire

Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Winter Fuel Payments and Pensions pursuant to the Draft Legislative Programme 2009, Cm 7564, page 37, who in Oxfordshire will be Dr. Cable: To ask the Secretary of State for Work responsible for delivering the proposed programme for and Pensions what the cost to the public purse of 861W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 862W winter fuel payments was in each of the last five years; Angela Eagle: Published information is in the table. and what estimate she has made of the cost in each of the next five years. [285846]

Benefit expenditure, Great Britain (£ million) 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11

Winter Fuel Payments (at 2009-10 prices) 2,189 2,166 2,144 2,144 2,720 2,731 2,121 Winter Fuel Payments (nominal terms) 1,962 1,982 2,015 2,071 2,694 2,731 2,153 Source: DWP accounting data

These figures are published on the DWP website: The YoungPerson’s Guarantee will become mandatory http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd4/medium_term.asp from spring 2010. Then all customers must complete an element of the Young Person’s Guarantee before they Written Questions: Government Responses are referred to the flexible new deal. The Department will continue to liaise with the Flexible Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Work New Deal Preferred Bidders about any potential impacts and Pensions when she plans to answer question (a) on referrals to the flexible new deal as a result of the 273933, (b) 273934, (c) 273935 and (d) 273936, tabled Young Person’s Guarantee. Any impacts will be time- on 5 May 2009, on the Cabinet meeting in Glasgow. limited, as referrals to the Young Person’s Guarantee [281290] will end in March 2011. Jim Knight: The hon. Member’s questions were replied Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work to as follows: 273933 on 24 June 2009, Official Report, and Pensions when she expects the Community Task column 1021W; 273934 and 273936 on 19 June 2009, Force to be operational under the Young Persons’ Official Report, column 553W; 273935 on 16 June 2009, Guarantee. [286742] Official Report, column 159W.

Justine Greening: To ask the Secretary of State for Jim Knight: The YoungPerson’s Guarantee will provide Work and Pensions when she plans to answer question all customers aged 18 to 24 approaching 12 months of 277517, on Jobcentre Plus, tabled on 21 May 2009. their claim to jobseeker’s allowance with the opportunity [285054] of a job, work-focused training or work experience placement. The community task force is the work experience Jim Knight: I replied to the hon. Member’s question element of the Young Person’s Guarantee. on 7 July 2009, Official Report, columns 742-46W. In phase 1 flexible new deal areas, the community task force will be available to all eligible customers on a Young Persons’ Guarantee voluntary basis from January 2010. The community task force will become mandatory in these areas later in Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2010 for all customers who do not take up another and Pensions what estimate she has made of the effect element of the Young Person’s Guarantee. of the introduction of the Young Persons’ Guarantee In phase 2 flexible new deal areas, the ‘work experience on predicted levels of referrals to the flexible New placement’ element of the Young Person’s Guarantee Deal; and whether young people unemployed for 12 will be delivered through the voluntary sector and months or more will have a choice of being referred to environmental task force options of the new deal for the flexible New Deal or one of the options offered young people. When referrals to this provision stop through the Young Persons’ Guarantee. [285139] during 2010, customers will instead be referred to the community task force. Jim Knight: The YoungPerson’s Guarantee will provide all customers aged 18-24 approaching 12 months of their claim to jobseeker’s allowance with the opportunity Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for Work of a job, work-focused training or work experience and Pensions (1) whether young people aged between placement. 18 and 24 years old who complete one of the options on the Young Persons’ Guarantee but who have not The flexible new deal gives providers the flexibility to secured employment will be referred on to the Flexible offer personalised support tailored to each individual New Deal; [286752] jobseeker. It will be introduced in phase 1 areas from October 2009 and from October 2010 in Phase 2 areas. (2) what plans her Department has to provide The Young Person’s Guarantee will be available to all assistance for young people aged between 18 and 24 eligible customers on a voluntary basis from January years old who complete one of the options on the 2010. In line with the jobseeker’s allowance benefit Young Persons’ Guarantee but who have not secured entitlement rules, any customer who is offered suitable employment. [286753] paid employment through the YoungPerson’s Guarantee must accept it or could face a sanction. However, while Jim Knight: The YoungPerson’s Guarantee will provide the programme is voluntary, customers may choose to all customers aged 18 to 24 approaching 12 months of be referred to the flexible new deal instead of the their claim to jobseeker’s allowance with the opportunity training or work experience options of the YoungPerson’s of a job, work-focused training or work experience Guarantee. placement. 863W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 864W

The flexible new deal will be introduced in phase 1 Bill Rammell: Helicopter support to ISAF operations areas from October 2009, and in phase 2 areas from in Southern Afghanistan, where the majority of British October 2010. It will give providers the flexibility to troops are located, is provided from a multinational offer personalised support tailored to each individual pool of helicopters allocated by Regional Command jobseeker. (South), to which the UK makes a significant contribution. All customers in phase 1 areas who participate in Therefore, the UK makes use of helicopter capability work-focused training or take up a work experience from other nations and also provides helicopter capability placement and who do not manage to secure employment to support other nations. Helicopters are matched to will be referred to the flexible new deal. tasks on the basis of capacity, capability and availability rather than nationality. Prior to the introduction of the flexible new deal in phase 2 areas, customers who do not secure employment The UK does not provide complete crews for helicopters as part of the YoungPerson’s Guarantee will be referred from other nations. On occasion the UK deploys exchange to the new deal for young people. officers with the armed forces of other nations but we do not centrally record the individual missions which From October 2010, all customers in phase 2 areas they are tasked with in Afghanistan. This information who do not manage to secure employment after completing could be provided only at disproportionate cost. one of the options of the Young Person’s Guarantee will also be referred to the flexible new deal. Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations

Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many explosions caused by improvised DEFENCE explosive devices were recorded by the armed forces in Afghanistan in (a) 2007, (b) 2008 and (c) 2009 to Afghanistan date. [283559]

Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Bob Ainsworth: Records of incidents for the Defence if he will hold discussions with his Chinese whole of Afghanistan are not held centrally and could counterpart about the reported involvement of Chinese be provided only at disproportionate cost. nationals in fighting UK armed forces in Afghanistan. Data are more readily available for attacks within [287025] Regional Command (South), which includes the vast majority of UK forces deployed to Afghanistan. Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The UK and China routinely discuss issues of mutual interest, including Afghanistan. The following table shows all improvised explosive Although there are occasional media reports of Chinese device detonations in Regional Command (South): nationals fighting inside Afghanistan, these reports are unconfirmed and no individuals killed or detained by 2007 2008 2009 UK forces operating in Afghanistan have been confirmed January 20 54 83 as having Chinese nationality. February 19 44 78 March315585 Afghanistan: Helicopters April 26 76 74 May616498 Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence on how many occasions British commanders Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for in Afghanistan have requested the use of coalition Defence what investigations his Department has helicopters; and on how many occasions this has been undertaken into incidents involving civilian death or agreed to. [287433] injury as a result of the use by British forces of enhanced blast munitions in Afghanistan. [284854] Mr. Bob Ainsworth: Helicopter support to ISAF operations in Regional Command (South) is provided Mr. Bob Ainsworth: UK forces thoroughly investigate from a multinational pool of helicopters, to which the all reports of civilian casualties in Afghanistan, regardless UK makes a significant contribution. The UK routinely of their potential cause. We regret incidents where requests the use of the Regional Command (South) civilians are accidentally killed as a result of actions by helicopter assets, and these requests are met by available UK armed forces. In addition to investigating all reports assets. UK helicopters are also tasked by Regional of civilian casualties, procedures are in place, and being Command (South) to support other nations within the constantly updated in the light of experience, to minimise Regional Command (South) area of operations. The the risk of these casualties occurring. specific number of requests and occasions when British Commanders have used coalition helicopters is not held As at the same date, 49 cases required more than 40 centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate days on top of the statutory 20 working day period and cost. have now been closed. As of 30 January 2009, a further 69 cases remained open in which the statutory 20 working Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence day period and a further 40 working days had passed. which helicopters owned by the armed forces of other The exact text of each of the 791 requests in the nations and manned by (a) UK and (b) non-UK categories listed above, and the detailed reasons for aircrew the UK has borrowed for service in each extension, could be provided only at disproportionate Afghanistan since 1 January 2008; and if he will make cost. However, I will write to the hon. Member to a statement. [286819] provide a short summary of each request for information 865W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 866W received in 2008 that was classified as ‘not resolvable’ or a multinational pool of helicopters, to which the UK ‘withheld in full’, and list any exemptions that applied. I makes a significant contribution. The UK also makes will also set out simplified reasons for those that have use of a range of civilian helicopters through the NATO required more than 40 working days on top of the logistics supply contract and a UK contract for transporting statutory 20 working day period. non-sensitive stores. We are not able to comment on the types of helicopter Mr. Laws: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence deployed by other nations in Regional Command (South) which UK helicopter types were deployed in or on the nationality of the crews which operate them, Afghanistan as at 13 July 2009; and if he will make a since this is a matter for each individual nation. Contracts statement. [287699] for helicopter assets are let for the provision of a capability.Consequently, the types of contracted helicopter Mr. Bob Ainsworth: ISAF helicopter support in Regional and the nationality of those who operate them are a Command (South) in Afghanistan is provided through matter for the contractor. a multinational pool to which the UK makes a significant contribution. The UK currently has Chinook, Sea King Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence and Lynx helicopters deployed to undertake combat what the maximum number of (a) RoyalNavyand(b) support roles, and in addition has Apache attack helicopters Royal Air Force helicopters is which could be deployed deployed in theatre. in Afghanistan. [288238] Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what his policy is on day landings at Mr. Bob Ainsworth: I refer the hon. Member to the Kandahar airbase. [287928] answer the hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford (Mr. Davies) gave on 17 June 2009, Official Record, Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The Ministry of Defence takes a column 338W, to the hon. Member for Woodspring risk based approach to landings at all operational bases, (Dr. Fox). including Kandahar airbase. The level of risk takes into Helicopters and crews from all three services continue account the task concerned, the security situation and to serve with distinction in Afghanistan. We have already the aircraft. I am withholding further information on deployed to Afghanistan the maximum number of this subject as its disclosure would prejudice the capability, helicopters that are both properly equipped for the effectiveness or security of the armed forces. challenges of the operational theatre, and that we can sustain on an enduring basis. While it would be possible Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for to surge additional helicopters into theatre on a temporary Defence how many of the Mk3 Chinooks currently basis, this would be unsustainable over time and would being upgraded he expects will be deployed to severely impact upon the achievement of harmony Afghanistan; and what the dates of deployment will be. guidelines for helicopter air and ground crews and [287936] training of new and existing crews. We are working hard to increase the number of deployed helicopters but Mr. Quentin Davies: We are converting the eight we need to do so sustainably. That is why we have been Chinook Mk3 helicopters to a support helicopter role. investing in additional aircraft and crews, logistics and The first of these aircraft will be delivered to operational infrastructure, as well undertaking significant modifications squadrons before the end of this year thus increasing to our existing helicopter fleet to enhance their capabilities. the pool of Chinooks available for deployment. It is for the chain of command to determine how many and Helicopter capability is measured by flying hours which of their aircraft should be deployed and when. rather than airframe numbers. The helicopter fleet is managed to ensure that our operational and other Ann Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State for commitments are met, including an 84 per cent. increase Defence what supplies were lost when the Mi-26T in flying hours in Afghanistan between November 2006 helicopter carrying supplies to a British base in and April 2009. Afghanistan crashed on 14 July 2009; and of what nationality the crew members of that helicopter were. Mr. Moore: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence [288220] pursuant to the answer of 11 June 2009, Official Report, column 999, on armed conflict: Afghanistan, Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The Mi-26T helicopter was carrying what his policy is on the introduction of a single, non-sensitive cargo, including food and fuel, when it uniform system by which all members of the crashed. The crew members were Ukrainian. International Security Assistance Force investigate and provide compensation to civilian casualties. [283871] Ann Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what (a) types of aircraft and (b) nationality of aircraft crews other than British, American and Mr. Bob Ainsworth: A civilian casualties tracking cell has been established by NATO ISAF to investigate Canadian supply British forces in Afghanistan. [288221] reports, with the Government of Afghanistan, of alleged Mr. Bob Ainsworth: A combination of UK military incidents involving ISAF in Afghanistan. and civilian charter aircraft are used to transport supplies As detailed in my answer of 11 June 2009, Official to British forces in Afghanistan. Within Afghanistan, Report, column 999W, compensation claims brought supplies are delivered to UK forces by UK Hercules against the Ministry of Defence as part of the International and C17 aircraft, UK Chinook, Sea King and Lynx Security Assistance Force are considered on the basis of helicopters and by helicopters from troop contributing whether or not the Department has a legal liability to nations in Regional Command (South). Within Regional pay compensation. Where there is a proven legal liability, Command (South), helicopter support is provided from under UK law, compensation is paid. 867W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 868W

Other members of the International Security Assistance Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The Ministry of Defence recognises Force will also assess liability when considering compensation the vital role that helicopters play in supporting operations claims though this will be against their own national in Afghanistan. There are also many tasks that can only law. This therefore precludes the implementation of a be carried out by troops on the ground, and situations uniform system for providing compensation for civilian in which road vehicles are a more suitable or better casualties. means of transporting personnel than helicopters. Apache Helicopters It is not possible to make an assessment of whether Mr. Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for an incident in which a UK serviceman has been killed Defence (1) what through-life upgrades are planned for or sustained serious injuries could have been avoided the Apache helicopter; [288195] should a helicopter have been used in place of a road (2) when he plans to start the Block 3 upgrade to the vehicle. We constantly monitor and respond to the Apache helicopter. [288194] capability and protection requirements of our troops, and strive to ensure that our armed forces have the Mr. Quentin Davies: The MOD plans to upgrade the protection and mobility they need to do their jobs as Apache helicopter throughout its life to sustain the safely and effectively as modern technology allows. capability provided, through a Spiral Development programme, starting before 2017 when the US Army Armed Forces: Health Services will stop operating their AH64D block 1 aircraft on which the Apache AH Mk1 is based. A number of options have been identified, which include utilising US Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Army block 3 technology. The UK assessment phase of for how many service personnel his Department has the upgrade is scheduled to commence in financial year purchased accelerated access to (a) NHS and (b) private 2012-13. treatment in each region in each of the last 10 years. Armed Forces: Afghanistan [282936]

Mr. Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Mr. Kevan Jones: Accelerated access is a term used by what percentage of all Afghan government military MOD in the context of physical illnesses and injuries. It forces are based in Helmand province; and what efforts is separate to the specific ″fast track″ arrangements for are being made to increase that percentage. [287272] orthopaedic treatment; separate provision is also made Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The number of Afghan National for access to in-patient care for mental health conditions. Security Forces in Helmand province is approximately Secondary healthcare accelerated access for Service 7,500, the total number of Afghan National Security personnel is commissioned through the NHS. In England, Forces in Afghanistan is approximately 170,000. contracts have been established with selected NHS Trusts The decision on where to deploy Afghan National in the locations shown in the following table. There are Security Forces is a decision for the Afghan Government. no such formal arrangements with private sector providers The UK is working closely with the Government of for physical conditions. Afghanistan, the International Security Assistance Force, Patients based in the devolved Administrations who and the Combined Security Transition Command to require accelerated access will have this provided through ensure that new Afghan National Security Force units local commissioning arrangements with relevant NHS are deployed where they are needed most. Trusts. Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Comprehensive data for the last 10 years are not how many UK service personnel have been killed or readily available and could be provided only at seriously injured while being transported in road vehicles disproportionate cost. However, during the period 2004-05 on operations in Afghanistan in circumstances where to 2007-08 a total of 100,112 treatments have been helicopters would have been used for the transport if delivered through accelerated access arrangements in they had been available in each of the last five years. England. A detailed breakdown of this activity by [287434] hospital is provided in the following table.

Derriford Frimley Park Northallerton Peterborough Portsmouth RCDM1 Royal Surrey

2004-05 2,491 5,897 3,106 4,985 6,895 2,214 962 2005-06 1,858 5,554 3,421 4,762 6,605 1,777 876 2006-07 2,770 5,663 3,511 5,109 5,057 2,191 887 2007-08 2,470 6,754 3,011 4,741 2,953 2,684 908 Total 9,589 2,3868 13,049 19,597 21,510 8,866 3,633 1 Royal Centre for Defence Medicine, hosted by University Hospital Birmingham Foundation Trust

Final confirmed numbers for 2008-09 are not yet (2) what the average waiting time for service personnel available. to receive physiotherapy (a) on the orthopaedic-fast track programme and (b) in each of his Department’s regional rehabilitation units was in each of the last 10 Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence years. [283006] (1) on how many occasions his Department has arranged fast access to (a) NHS and (b) private surgery under Mr. Kevan Jones: The most common medical conditions the orthopaedic-fast track programme for service personnel in military patients are musculo-skeletal disorders. Since in each region in each of the last 10 years; [283007] April 2004, for patients with these conditions, we have 869W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 870W arranged rapid access to diagnosis and, for the minority UK in each financial year since 2005-06. Details as to who are then found to need it, surgery in NHS facilities, which medical facility each referral was made could be thus enabling the services to respond to the current high obtained only at disproportionate cost. Figures for 2004-05 operational tempo and return personnel to full fitness are not readily available. for task when this is clinically deliverable. The following table shows how many referrals to fast-track surgery have been made by each RRU in the

2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-091 2009-102

Aldergrove 10 114 6 7 1 Aldershot 90 28 14 21 1 Bulford 39 32 36 13 18 Catterick 7 22 32 10 14 Colchester 24 35 39 9 7 Cranwell 40 40 27 7 1 Edinburgh 90 147 64 20 8 Halton 8197931522 Honington 17 24 25 37 4 Lichfield 22 65 71 13 20 London (Headley Court) 3 14 20 9 1 Plymouth 43 96 115 68 19 Portsmouth 47 101 47 52 7 1 2008-09 statistics subject to final analysis and confirmation 2 2009-10 figures up to June 2009

Typically we achieve a decision as to which path the undertaken in three parts, to fixed permanent defence patient will follow, either to surgery or straight to medical facilities; to deployed defence medical facilities; physiotherapy/rehabilitation within 10-20 days of injury. and to enable information exchange with the NHS. The Those needing only physiotherapy/rehabilitation treatment first part of the roll-out is now drawing to a close. The (the majority) are referred directly for treatment in one list of medical centres where DMICP is already in use of the RRUs. Typically, these patients will start and a list of the expected dates of implementation of physiotherapy within four to six weeks of the decision DMICP in medical centres, where it is not yet in use will on their treatment path. be placed in the Library of the House. Patients requiring physiotherapy following fast track The second part of the roll-out is to cover deployed surgery will receive this either at a local MOD Primary operational and maritime units. It is expected to start in Care Rehabilitation Facility (PCRF) or by referral back September 2009 with field trials and pilot sites, with the to an RRU. This will usually commence within two main roll-out due to begin in January 2010. The deployed weeks of surgery, depending upon the patient’s individual roll-out is expected to complete by December 2010, and geographic circumstances. No strict measure of subject to any necessary rescheduling for operational waiting times are taken, as each patient’s care pathway reasons, ship upkeep and maintenance periods, and to is individually managed and co-ordinated by the referring reflect lessons learned from earlier phases. RRU, and timescales will depend on continuing assessment Services to deliver the third part of the roll-out—the and surgical outcome. interface between DMICP and the NHS National Programme for IT (NPfIT)—will be introduced in a Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for phased manner beginning later this year and are expected Defence (1) at which armed forces medical centres the to be completed by the end of 2014. Defence Medical Information Capacity Programme is Although NPfIT does not extend to the NHS in the in use; and on what date the programme is expected to devolved Administrations, we are in contact with their be introduced at medical centres where it is not yet in health officials so that as far as possible the same use; [283026] benefits, in terms of speedy and accurate exchange of (2) what mechanisms are in place to ensure the data, will be available to defence patients and medical exchange of information between the Defence Medical staff in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland over the Information Capacity Programme and health services same period. in the devolved administrations; [283027] Armed Forces: Helicopters (3) whether the roll-out of the Defence Medical Information Capability Programme has been Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence completed; [283036] how many (a) Army, (b) Royal Air Force and (c) (4) when the interface between the Defence Medical Royal Navy personnel (i) entered and (ii) completed Information Capacity Programme and the NHS pilot training for each helicopter type in each of the National Programme for IT is expected to be last five years. [284518] completed. [283082] Bill Rammell: Initial training for all three Services is Mr. Kevan Jones: The roll-out of the Defence Medical provided by the Defence Helicopter Flying School (DHFS) Information Capability Programme (DMICP) is being at Shawbury. Around 140 new pilots complete the training 871W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 872W each year. On completion of single engine training at The numbers of armed forces personnel who entered DHFS, the three Services conduct separate training and completed helicopter conversion to type pilot training, streams leading to the final phase in which pilots convert by each helicopter type, in the last five years, where data onto specific aircraft types. This is known as Operational are available, are provided in the following tables. Conversion Flight/Operational Conversion Unit training.

Royal Navy helicopters Personnel numbers Merlin Mk1 Lynx Mk8 Sea King Sea King Commando Entered Completed Entered Completed Entered Completed Entered Completed

2004-05 6 6 11 11 4 4 13 14 2005-06 4 4 8 7 0 0 17 17 2006-07 8 7 7 8 0 0 6 6 2007-08 8 4 11 8 0 0 12 14 2008-09 10 8 5 5 3 3 12 12

Army Air Corps helicopters Personnel numbers Gazelle Lynx Apache Service Entered Completed Entered Completed Entered Completed

2004-05 RoyalNavy2 28 81 1 Army 19 19 29 29 42 37 RAF001100

2005-06 RoyalNavy0 06 60 0 Army 6 6 40 40 24 22 RAF000000

2006-07 RoyalNavy0 04 41 1 Army 4 4 39 39 31 31 RAF000000

2007-08 RoyalNavy1 15 40 0 Army 9 9 21 21 37 34 RAF000000

2008-09 RoyalNavy0 04 40 0 Army 5 5 21 19 33 29 RAF110011

Royal Air Force helicopters Personnel numbers Chinook Puma Merlin Mk 3 Sea King Entered Completed Entered Completed Entered Completed Entered Completed

2004-05 21 21 20 20 14 14 n/a n/a 2005-06 23 23 19 19 13 13 n/a n/a 2006-07 18 17 20 20 12 12 n/a n/a 2007-08 28 28 8 8 13 13 13 13 2008-09 19 19 14 14 20 20 9 9

A breakdown by Service of pilots trained on RAF Armed Forces: Housing and Royal Navy helicopter types is not held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for Pilots entering training in one year may not complete Defence how many emergency maintenance requests training in the same year. Therefore, numbers entering were made for properties occupied by service personnel and completing training in each of the financial years and their families in each month since October 2007; may not equate. and what the average time was for requested maintenance to take place. [277258] 873W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 874W

Mr. Kevan Jones: The requested information is not Grade 1 Grade 2 Grade 3 Grade 4 Total held centrally and will take a little time to collate and verify. I will write to the hon. Member. Northern 1,002 960 1,402 776 4,140 Ireland Substantive answer from Kevan Jones to Lady Sylvia Percentage 24 23 34 19 — Hermon: In my answer of 1 June 2009 (Official Report, column 37W) I undertook to write to you with details of how many emergency Wales 671 1,277 160 1,129 3,237 maintenance requests were made for properties occupied by Service Percentage 21 39 5 35 — personnel and their families in each month since October 2007; and what the average time was for requested maintenance to take An asset survey of SFA in England and Wales is place. currently being undertaken to help plan and prioritise The table below shows the number of emergency repair calls in the maintenance and improvement of SFA properties the UK since October 2007. Like for like information about cases more effectively and to target resources at areas of overseas is not held centrally or on a consistent basis. greatest need. As at 1 July 2009, of the 44,000 SFA properties in England and Wales, over 33,500 had been UK surveyed and were at the following Standard for Condition (SfC). October 2007 3,085 November 2007 3,784 SfC Number of properties Percentage December 2007 3,637 January 2008 4,105 S1fC 12,089 36 February 2008 3,464 S2fC 19,525 58 March 2008 3,412 S3fC 1,850 6 April 2008 3,073 S4fC 231 1— May 2008 2,389 1 Less than 1 per cent. June 2008 2,263 Although NI SFA has not been assessed for its SfC, it July 2008 2,621 is generally considered to be in a good condition. August 2008 2,809 September 2008 3,046 Armed Forces: Mental Health Services October 2008 3,591 November 2008 4,044 Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence December 2008 5,441 how much funding his Department has given to each January 2009 5,022 military department of community mental health in February 2009 3,739 each year since their inception; and how much has been March 2009 3,447 allocated to each department in the next two years. [283077] Information on response times is not held in the format requested. The MOD contract sets the response time for attending emergency Mr. Kevan Jones: The MOD has 15 Departments of repairs as 3 hours, and repairs to remedy or make safe are to be completed within 24 hours. Community Mental Health (DCMHs) in the UK (with additional satellite centres in Germany, Cyprus and In the UK, requests for repairs to Service Family Accommodation Gibraltar), which have since 2004 provided out-patient are classed as an emergency in cases where there is an immediate risk of injury to individuals or damage to property, or where the mental healthcare for members of the armed forces. problem could give rise to serious inconvenience or hardship to Responsibility for their individual management is shared occupants. Examples include a total loss of essential facilities or between the single service commands, and it is not insecure premises. possible to separate out costs from overall unit medical budgets. Each service funds its respective DCMHs Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for differently, with funding provision coming from a number Defence how many and what percentage of units of of areas. Due to the number of budgets to which costs service (a) single living accommodation and (b) service would be attributable, any detailed study of DCMH family accommodation at each location in (i) England, finances would incur disproportionate costs. (ii) Wales and (iii) Northern Ireland are in each condition Nick Harvey: To ask the Secretary of State for grade. [287911] Defence (1) how many military psychiatrists of each specialism there are in each of the armed services; and Mr. Kevan Jones: Details of single living accommodation at what location each is working; [283663] (SLA) and service family accommodation (SFA) units broken down by grade and location in England, Wales (2) how many service personnel have been referred to and Northern Ireland are not held centrally and could a military psychiatrist in each of the last 10 years. be provided only at disproportionate cost. [283664] However, as at June 2008, the latest date for which Mr. Kevan Jones: All military psychiatrists are trained figures are available, SLA in each country was at the as general psychiatrists. There are currently 15 uniformed following “grade”, an assessment of the physical condition consultant psychiatrists working for the Defence Medical of the accommodation and “scale”. Services (DMS), as well as 13 civilian consultant psychiatrists, many of whom are former military members Grade 1 Grade 2 Grade 3 Grade 4 Total of the DMS. They work in the military Departments of England 30,705 15,702 18,862 56,799 122,068 Community Mental Health (DCMH), which provide Percentage 25 13 15 47 — out-patient mental health care for members of the armed forces. I will place a copy of the specific location of each consultant in the Library of the House. 875W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 876W

Military psychiatrists Civilian psychiatrists Total

Aldershot 1 1.5 2.5 RAF Brize Norton 1 1 2 Catterick 2 1 3 Colchester 1 0 1 RAF Cranwell 1 0 1 Donnington 1 1 2 RAF Kinloss 1 0 1 RAF Leuchars 0.5 0 0.5 RAF Marham 1 0 1 Northern Ireland 0.5 0 0.5 Plymouth 0 3 3 Portsmouth 0 2.5 2.5 Tidworth 1 1 2 Woolwich 1 0 1 Rhine (Germany) 1 0 1 Hohne (Germany) 0 1 1 Paderborn (Germany) 0 1 1 Gutersloh (Germany) 1 0 1 Other1 101 Total 15 13 28 1 “Other” includes personnel in staff posts. Note: Two individuals work part-time at two separate DCMHs. These are shown as “0.5” at each location.

Service personnel who have a concern about their each quarter and the results of the initial mental health mental health will normally be referred in the first assessment. However, the data collected do not indicate instance for assessment and/or treatment at one of the whether an individual was seen by a military psychiatrist DCMHs, which are manned by multi-disciplinary teams or by another qualified member of the mental health of consultant psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, team. community mental health nurses and mental health social workers. Armed Forces: Training Since July 2007 the Defence Analytical Services and Advice (DASA) organisation has reported on the psychiatric Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence morbidity of the UK armed forces. Quarterly reports how many armed forces personnel (a) entered and (b) for the whole of 2007 and 2008 are available to view completed fast jet training in each aircraft type in each both in the Library of the House and on the DASA of the last five years. [284519] website at the following link: www.dasa.mod.uk Bill Rammell: The following table provides the number Equivalent verified data prior to 2007 are not held of RAF and RN personnel who (a) entered and (b) centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate completed fast jet training and the type of aircraft they cost. trained on in each of the last five years. All personnel The morbidity report shows numbers of new attendances start training on the Hawk but move on to receive more at DCMHs or at the MOD’s in-patient contractor during advanced training on other types of aircraft.

Financial year Aircraft type 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

(a) Hawk 65 61 71 70 69

(b) Harrier GR7/9 8 7636 Tornado GR 4 28 27 26 29 26 Tornado F3 28 19 18 12 6 Typhoon 0 0434 Jaguar 9 4000 Total7357544742 Note: Jaguar was withdrawn from Service after financial year 2005-06 and formal Typhoon pilot training commenced in financial year 2006-07.

With the introduction of Typhoon we are bringing significantly more capable platform than the aircraft it into service a state of the art multi-role weapons system, replaced and it continues to develop and improve. Typhoon suitable and adaptable to meet the challenges of the requires only a one-person crew rather than a two-person 21st century. It is in certain key aspects already a crew like the Tornado F3, which is being phased out. 877W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 878W

Additionally, as the 2004 Defence White Paper “Delivering The Naval Service currently recruit officers through Security in a Changing World”made clear, “the effectiveness one of seven Officer Careers Liaison Centres (OCLCs) of modern precision weapons and sensors, which can be situated throughout England, and Army officers are used in all weathers, day and night, mean that highly currently recruited by Army Career Advisors and are accurate air delivered offensive effects can be achieved not recruited through the Armed Forces Career Offices. with fewer fast jets than before... Similarly the air threat Both of these figures are not held centrally and could be to deployed forces has greatly reduced and the capability provided only at disproportionate cost. of our air superiority aircraft and other air defence The number of Other Ranks recruited to the armed assets is continuing to improve. So we need fewer aircraft forces through Armed Forces Career Offices in the and fewer ground-based air defence systems to meet the Yorkshire and Humberside area can be found in the threat.” following table. The number of fast-jet aircrew completing training is sufficient to meet training requirements, and aircrew Naval Service Army RAF training for Typhoon is planned to increase over the next few years as the aircraft comes into wider service. 2001-02 — 1,330 — Under current plans, by 2014-15 there will be an annual 2002-03 — 1,510 — requirement for 16 newly qualified Typhoon pilots each 2003-04 270 1,300 310 year, to support a requirement for 92 front-line Typhoon 2004-05 260 1,020 180 pilots within a total force of 122 pilots. 2005-06 280 1,110 130 2006-07 250 1,390 180 Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence 2007-08 240 1,230 230 in what proportion of his Department’s military 2008-09 260 1,300 320 training exercises (a) an injury to armed forces service personnel, (b) damage to public property and (c) Following a move onto a new reporting system accurate damage to private property has occurred in each of the data for the Naval Service and RAF are only available last 10 years. [286357] from financial year 2003-04. Yorkshire and Humberside covers the Armed Forces Bill Rammell: The information requested is not held Careers Offices based in Hull, Leeds and Sheffield. centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate Additionally Army Regular soldier figures include those cost. I can assure the House, however, that every effort recruited from Army Career Information Offices in is taken to ensure that our service personnel undertake York, Scarborough, Barnsley, Doncaster, Bradford, Halifax, military training safely and to minimise damage to Huddersfield and Wakefield. either public or private property. All figures have been rounded to the nearest 10 to We can identify the number of service personnel who avoid disclosure and are provisional and subject to have sustained an injury whilst on a training exercise as review. reported on the MOD Health and Safety systems between 1 2006 and 2008 . Armoured Fighting Vehicles 1 Figures have been rounded to the nearest five.

Service 2006 2007 2008 Ann Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what assessment he has made of the capacity Naval Service1 65 5 25 of the new Husky vehicle to withstand the impact of Army 240 240 325 improvised explosive devices and mines in RAF 30 15 20 Afghanistan. [287100] 1 Naval Service figures include Royal Navy and Royal Marines. Armed Forces: Yorkshire and the Humber Mr. Quentin Davies: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave her on 14 July 2009, Official Report, Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for column 269W. Husky has been subject to a range of Defence how many people were recruited to the armed tests, including the impact of improvised explosive devices. forces through Armed Forces Career Offices in the It has passed these tests, but for reasons of operational Yorkshire and the Humber in each year since 2001. security it would be inappropriate to comment further. [285704] Ann Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Kevan Jones: The number of officers recruited to Defence what the cost per vehicle is of the extra the Royal Air Force through Armed Forces Career armour added to the new Husky vehicle prior to Offices in the Yorkshire and Humberside area can be deployment. [287101] found in the following table. Mr. Quentin Davies: The armour solution on Husky RAF is an integral part of the vehicle, embodied on the production line. There is no extra armour added to the 2003-04 20 vehicle prior to deployment. There is therefore no cost 2004-05 10 for extra armour. 2005-06 20 2006-07 20 2007-08 30 Ann Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what the unladen weight is of the new Husky 2008-09 30 vehicle. [287102] 879W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 880W

Mr. Quentin Davies: The unladen weight of the Husky Barron Report cannot be released as this would, or would be likely to, prejudice the operational security of our armed forces. Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, if he will place in the Library a copy of the Barron Armoured Fighting Vehicles: Procurement Report on defence land needs. [245123]

Ann Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr. Kevan Jones: A copy of the ‘Barron Report’, Defence what criteria were used in the evaluation which was prepared some years ago, is being obtained process for the procurement of the new Husky vehicle. and will be placed in the Library of the House. [287099] Substantive answer from Kevan Jones to Liam Fox: In my answer to your Parliamentary Question of 12 January Mr. Quentin Davies: The Navistar Defence vehicle (Official Report, column 86W), asking for a copy of the Barron selected for the Husky programme was evaluated against Report on defence lands needs to be placed in the Library of the a number of key user requirements, which included House, I advised that a copy was being obtained and would be protection and mobility, a demanding delivery timeline placed in the library of the house as soon as practicable. and the requirement to provide value for money. I regret that, given the amount of time that has elapsed since the production of the Report (some 20 years); and despite strenuous Army: Training efforts by officials, it has not proved possible to locate a copy. I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. Mr. Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Clyde Naval Base: Radioactive Waste Defence what the average waiting time for an Army infantry recruit to enter basic training after passing initial entry assessments and requirements was in the Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence latest period for which figures are available. [288199] pursuant to the answer of 12 May 2009, Official Report, column 753W, on radioactive waste: waste Mr. Kevan Jones: Over the period 1 July 2008 to 30 management, if he will introduce an annual review of June 2009, the average waiting time between an applicant compliance with best practice of arrangements for the obtaining a pass at an Army development and selection handling, movement, processing, storage and disposal centre and commencing infantry training was 79 days. of radioactive waste at HM Naval Base, Clyde, Faslane. [288295] Having obtained a pass at a selection centre, a commencement date is mutually agreed by the individual Mr. Quentin Davies: Management of radioactive waste and their recruiting staff, and is tailored to the Army’s at Her Majesty’s Naval Base (HMNB) Clyde is carried and the individual’s circumstances. out in accordance with a comprehensive set of requirements, both statutory and those derived from MOD policy, Astute Class Submarines including authorisation conditions (ACs) imposed by the Department’s Defence Nuclear Safety Regulator. Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for These ACs require an annual review to be carried out Defence what the estimated in-service date is for each for all nuclear facilities, including the two facilities that of the first four Astute-class submarines. [287192] deal with radioactive waste: the Active Processing Facility and the Radioactive Effluent Disposal Facility. Mr. Quentin Davies: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave him on 22 January 2009, Official Report, Damian McBride column 1667W. The Astute programme is currently being re-baselined and I will make an announcement in Mr. Maude: To ask the Secretary of State for due course. Defence on what date he last met Mr Damian McBride in the course of his official duties. [287396] Baha Mousa Inquiry Mr. Bob Ainsworth: I have not met with Damian Harry Cohen: To ask the Secretary of State for McBride in the course of my official duties. Defence whether legal aid has been made available to any persons who are to appear as witnesses at the Baha Defence: Procurement Mousa Inquiry. [287179] Sir Nicholas Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State Mr. Bob Ainsworth [holding answer 16 July 2009]: for Defence what reports he has received of the Legal aid is not available to participants in public outcome of legal proceedings in the United States inquiries. However, under the Inquiries Act 2005 the against L-3 Communications Corporation; if he will chairman may make awards where he considers it assess the effect on his Department’s policies on (a) appropriate. I understand that the right hon. Sir William security and (b) ethical procurement of its contract Gage, chairman of the Baha Mousa Public Inquiry, with L-3 Communications Corporation to examine the which is established under the Inquiries Act, has made replacement of the Nimrod R-1 fleet; and if he will two awards under section 40(2) of that Act in respect of make a statement. [278808] legal representation for two of the Inquiry’s core participants. Separately, legal assistance at no cost to Mr. Quentin Davies: The Ministry of Defence is the individual will be offered to all current and former aware of the legal proceedings in the USA involving L-3 service personnel and civil servants who are asked to Communications, with whom MOD has a number of provide evidence as a consequence of their employment. contracts. 881W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 882W

We have not yet made a final decision on the solution Mr. Hutton: Cleaning services are generally procured for sustaining the Airborne Signals Intelligence Capability, by the Ministry of Defence through wider Facilities currently provided by Nimrod R-1. Management and PFI contracts. The MOD requires All major equipment procurements are subject to contractors to comply with all applicable legislation. MOD’s assurance processes, which include an assessment Above this, the Department does not have a specific of the suitability of prospective contractors before any policy regarding animal testing. commitments are entered into. Departmental Buildings Departmental Disclosure of Information

Susan Kramer: To ask the Secretary of State for Dan Rogerson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what (a) land and (b) buildings his Defence (1) which requests for information received by Department has sold since 1997. [278021] his Department under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 in 2008 were (a) classified as Mr. Kevan Jones: Records of transactions prior to not resolvable and (b) refused in full; [286135] 2000 are not held centrally and could be provided only (2) in respect of which requests for information at disproportionate cost. I will write to the hon. Member received by his Department in 2008 under the with the information on land and buildings sold since provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 it 2000 as soon as this data has been verified and collated. has received permission to extend the deadline for a Substantive answer from Kevan Jones to Susan Kramer: response by more than 40 days; and what the reason for In my answer of 9 June 2009 (Official Report, column 831W) I the request for an extension was in each case. [286159] undertook to write to you with details of what land and buildings have been sold since 1997. Mr. Kevan Jones: In 2008 the Ministry of Defence I am placing a copy of the details of the land and buildings received some 2,631 requests for information centrally, that have been sold since 2000 in the Library of the House. under the Freedom of Information Act. As I indicated in my earlier response, records of transactions As of 30 January 2009,258 cases were closed in which prior to 2000 are not held centrally and could only be provided at disproportionate cost. the information requested was withheld in full. A further 315 cases were closed and classed as not resolvable. Departmental Contracts As at the same date, 49 cases required more than 40 days on top of the statutory 20 working day period and Lorely Burt: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence have now been closed. As of 30 January 2009, a further how many contracts let by his Department were awarded 69 cases remained open in which the statutory 20 working to businesses with fewer than 50 employees in each of day period and a further 40 working days had passed. the last five years; and what the monetary value of such The exact text of each of the 791 requests in the contracts was in each such year. [287798] categories listed above, and the detailed reasons for each extension, could be provided at only disproportionate Mr. Quentin Davies: The information requested is not cost. However, I will write to the hon. Member to held centrally and could be provided only at provide a short summary of each request for information disproportionate cost. received in 2008 that was classified as ‘not resolvable’ or Departmental Data Protection ‘withheld in full’, and list any exemptions that applied. I will also set out simplified reasons for those that have required more than 40 working days on top of the Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for statutory 20 working day period. Defence (1) how many successful attempts were made to gain unauthorised access to each (a) database and (b) ICT system run by his Department in (i) 2008 and Departmental Manpower (ii) 2009; and if he will make a statement; [286557] (2) how many attempts were made to gain Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence unauthorised access to each (a) database and (b) ICT how many (a) regular military, (b) Territorial Army system run by his Department in (i) 2008 and (ii) 2009; and other part-time military and (c) civilian personnel and if he will make a statement. [286556] were employed by his Department in (i) total, (ii) Yorkshire and the Humber, (iii) North Yorkshire and (iv) City of Mr. Bob Ainsworth: It would not be in the interests of York in each year since 1997. [285733] the UK’s national security for the MOD to confirm whether it holds information about attacks against its data or ICT systems as this would enable individuals to Mr. Kevan Jones: Regular military strength breakdown deduce how successful the Department is in detecting by Government office region prior to 2002, local authority these attacks. level breakdown of MOD Civilians prior to 2006 and stationed location of Volunteer Reserve personnel are Departmental Detergents not held centrally and cannot be provided without incurring disproportionate cost. Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for The following table shows the total Regular Service, Defence if he will make it his policy to ensure that no Civilian and Volunteer Reserve Force Strengths. Civilian cleaning products or ingredients of cleaning products strength is reported as full-time equivalents (FTE) and used by his Department have been tested on animals. includes MOD permanent and casual personnel, trading [261130] funds, royal fleet auxiliaries and locally engaged civilians. 883W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 884W

Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Volunteer reserve force Defence how many civilian staff his Department (a) Regular Royal MOD military Naval Territorial auxiliary civilian employed in each of the last three years, (b) employs personnel1 reserves2 army3 air force personnel and (c) plans to employ in each of the next three years. [287199] 1997 210,820 4,260 n/a 2,020 133,330 1998 210,140 4,440 n/a 2,490 126,290 Mr. Kevan Jones: Table 1 comprises of the total 1999 208,640 4,520 n/a 2,620 123,010 number of Full-Time Equivalent (FTE) civil servants 2000 207,610 4,820 n/a 2,740 121,290 employed by the Ministry of Defence at each 1 April 2001 205,650 4,830 n/a 2,570 118,170 point since 2006. 2002 204,680 4,980 n/a 2,590 110,090 2003 206,910 4,910 n/a 2,580 107,580 Table 1: Total civilian personnel strengths 2004 207,020 4,480 38,320 2,580 109,050 FTE 2005 201,100 4,360 37,260 2,450 108,470 Civilian Level 1 Civilian Level 0 2006 195,850 n/a 38,460 2,300 103,380 April 2006 78,140 103,380 20074 190,400 3,680 36,790 p2,160 97,690 April 2007 73,780 97,690 20085 187,060 3,590 p35,020 p2,200 89,500 April 2008 69,050 89,500 20096 188,370 n/a p35,350 n/a 86,620 April 2009 66,440 86,620 Notes: 1. Civilian Level 1 includes all permanent and casual civilian personnel and The following table shows the strength of regular Royal Fleet Auxiliaries, but excludes Trading Funds and Locally Engaged Civilians. military and civilian personnel in North Yorkshire. 2. Civilian Level 0 contains all those at Level 1 plus Trading Funds and Locally Civilian strength is reported in full-time equivalent (FTE) Engaged Civilians. for MOD permanent and casual personnel only. Local 3. Numbers are rounded to the nearest 10. Numbers ending in “5” have been rounded to the nearest multiple of 20 to prevent systematic bias. authority level breakdown excludes trading funds, royal 4. Full time equivalence counts part time staff by the number of hours they fleet auxiliaries and locally engaged civilians. work as a proportion of their full time conditioned hours. Source: DASA (Quad-Service). Regular military personne1 MOD civilian personnel The projected numbers of civilian staff employed across MOD for the remainder of this Spending Review 2002 12,000 n/a period ending April 2011 are set out in Table 2. 20037 n/a n/a 20047 n/a n/a Table 2: Current Level 0 FTE projections 2005 12,690 n/a Civilian Level 0 (FTE) 2006 11,880 2,000 1 April 2010 (projected) 184,000 2007 12,540 1,980 1 April 2011 (projected) 181,500 2008 12,140 1,950 1 Provisional 2009 13,310 1,930 Source: Stat Mann. Data provided is provisional and subject to review. The following table shows the strength of regular As the Department develops more mature plans for the military and civilian personnel in City of York. Civilian delivery of the required input savings and outsourcing strength is reported in full-time equivalent (FTE) for then these figures will be subject to change. MOD permanent and casual personnel only. Local authority level breakdown excludes trading funds, royal Departmental Work Experience fleet auxiliaries and locally engaged civilians. Mr. Oaten: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Regular military how many (a) paid and (b) unpaid graduate personnel1 MOD civilian personnel internships his Department has awarded in each of the 2002 640 n/a last six months. [281514] 20037 n/a n/a 20047 n/a n/a Mr. Kevan Jones: The information requested is not 2005 730 n/a held centrally and could be provided only at 2006 710 760 disproportionate cost. 2007 800 650 EU Law 2008 840 650 2009 880 680 n/a = not available Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence p = provisional what estimate he has made of the cost to his Department 1 UK Regular forces includes all trained and untrained personnel. Gurkhas, of the statutory obligations upon it provided for in full-time Reserve personnel, and mobilised reservists are excluded. 2 Includes the Royal Naval Reserve and Royal Marine Reserve. legislation introduced as a consequence of obligations 3 Territorial Army data prior to 2004 are not available. arising from EU legislation in the most recent 12 months 4 2007 Territorial Army data are as at 1 March. [283479] 5 2008 Territorial Army data are as at 1 June. for which figures are available. 6 Data on Naval Reserves and Royal Auxiliary Air Force at 1 April 2009 are due to be published in September 2009 Bill Rammell: The Department has a responsibility to 7 2003-04 Regular military stationed location figures are not available because of concerns over data quality. ensure that it complies with all relevant EU legislation. Note: The cost of complying with these obligations is not held Figures are rounded to the nearest 10, numbers ending in 5 have been rounded centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate to the nearest multiple of 20 to avoid systematic bias. cost. 885W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 886W

Future Lynx Helicopters Ann Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what progress has been made in the conversion Mr. Carswell: To ask the Secretary of State for of the eight Mark 3 Chinook helicopters; and if he will Defence (1) when he expects the first Future Lynx make a statement. [287104] helicopters to enter service; [287236] (2) what estimate he has made of the cost to the Mr. Quentin Davies: The conversion of the Chinook public purse of the procurement of Future Lynx Mk3 helicopters is progressing well. The first successful helicopters; [287237] test flight of the modified aircraft took place in June (3) what his policy is on proceeding with the Future 2009. This is a significant milestone on the project. The Lynx contract. [287238] programme is on schedule to deliver the first aircraft to operational commanders later this year. Mr. Quentin Davies: There are two variants of the Future Lynx aircraft which is now known as the Lynx HMS Invincible Wildcat. The first aircraft is due to enter service in January 2012, leading to an initial operating capability Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for in 2014 for the Army’s Battlefield Reconnaissance Defence what plans his Department has for the Helicopter (BRH) and in 2015 for the Royal Navy’s disposal of HMS Invincible. [287194] Surface Combatant Maritime Rotorcraft (SCMR). A contract has been agreed with AgustaWestland for the Mr. Quentin Davies: HMS Invincible is currently in a procurement of 62 Lynx Wildcat aircraft. The total cost state of very low readiness and on present plans she will of the demonstration and manufacture of the project is be withdrawn from service in 2010. Once she has been forecast to be some £1.7 billion. declared surplus to Royal Navy requirements, all disposal Gurkhas: Pensions options will be considered.

Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Military Aircraft Defence how many Gurkha soldiers who retired prior to 1997 would have qualified for a British Army Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence pension given their length of service, if eligibility for a how many training sorties have been flown by each British Army pension was extended to such soldiers. aircraft type in each of the armed forces in each year [287432] since 2003. [284538]

Mr. Kevan Jones: There are no plans to extend eligibility Bill Rammell: Training does not cease after pilots to transfer from the Gurkha pension scheme (GPS) to have completed their formal training but continues the armed force pension scheme (AFPS) to those Gurkhas throughout their flying career because all operational who retired before 1 July 1997. Their pension arrangements flying contains an element of training. The information have been found to be fair and lawful in two Judicial is not held in the format requested; either by the number Reviews and a High Court appeal. of training sorties undertaken during basic flying training However, of the recipients of the GPS who retired or by qualified personnel undertaking training on other before 1 July 1997 (which includes Gurkha veterans, aircraft types. In addition, flying is not recorded by the their widows or dependants), it is estimated that about number of sorties undertaken by individual pilots. 1,800, would, by length of service or because of disability, Furthermore, the number of hours flown during basic be qualified for an immediate pension from the date of flying training is not held centrally and could be provided their discharge under the AFPS. A further 8,800 who only at disproportionate cost. were discharged after 1 April 1975 would be qualified for a preserved pension under the AFPS from the age of Military Aircraft Reach and Sustainability Programme 60. Those Gurkha service pensioners who served for less Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for than 22 years and who discharged before 1 April 1975, Defence when he expects to announce decisions on the would not be entitled to a service pension since there future of the Military Aircraft Reach and were no preserved pensions prior to the introduction of Sustainability programme. [287191] AFPS 75. Mr. Quentin Davies: The requirements and procurement Helicopters strategy for the Military Afloat Reach and Sustainability programme are currently under review and we expect to Ann Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State for announce a way forward later this year. Defence what the average cost is of upgrading a Merlin helicopter for use in Afghanistan. [287103] Military Aircraft: Training Mr. Bob Ainsworth: It is envisaged that all 28 Merlin Mk3/3a helicopters will be upgraded at a cost in the Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence region of £42 million. This equates to an average of what the (a) required and (b) actual number of £1.5 million per aircraft. These figures are lower than training instructors for each Royal Air Force aircraft previously reported and stated in the written answer my type was in each of the last five years. [284545] predecessor, Mr. Hutton, gave on 2 March 2009, Official Report, column 1364W,to the hon. Member for Congleton. Bill Rammell: Historical information for each of the This is due to improved maturity in our cost estimates last five years is not held centrally and could be provided following work undertaken in the intervening period. only at disproportionate cost. 887W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 888W

The required and actual training instructor number Navy for each aircraft type in the armed forces as at 9 July 2009 is provided in the following table. These figures are Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence for RAF flying instructors in current flying instructional what his Department’s plans are for replacing the Royal positions of all ranks. Navy’s mine countermeasures vessels. [287166] Training instructor numbers fluctuate on a day by day basis as individuals are reassigned, medically Mr. Quentin Davies: I refer the hon. Member to the downgraded or leave the service. The overall aircraft answer I gave on 30 March 2009, Official Report, columns fleet is currently undergoing significant change with 891-92W, to the hon. Member for New Forest, East some aircraft types drawing down and new aircraft (Dr. Lewis). coming into service, such as with the rapid expansion of the Merlin Force. Numbers of training instructors are Navy: Manpower responding to reflect these changes and action is being taken to ensure that current operations are not affected. Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many naval officers are serving on all Required training Actual training ships in commission, including those in refit. [287195] Aircraft type instructors instructors

Hercules C130J 37 38 Bill Rammell: I refer the hon. Member to the answers Hercules C130K 8 8 my predecessor gave to the hon. Member for Woodspring VC10 25 22 (Dr. Fox) on 13 November 2007, Official Report, column TriStar 5 5 127W and 4 February 2009, Official Report, column C17A 3 3 1257W. HS125 1 1 BAe146 1 1 Nuclear Weapons Tornado GR4 50 39 Typhoon 27 20 Dr. Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Tornado F3 0 0 Defence whether a British nuclear deterrent system Harrier GR9 8 11 consisting of (a) land-based, (b) air-launched and (c) Nimrod MR2/MR4 32 29 ship-borne nuclear cruise missiles would be compatible Nimrod R1 7 7 with the provisions of the 1987 Intermediate-range Sentinel R1 5 5 Nuclear Forces Treaty. [287182] E3D 25 21 King Air 30 24 Mr. Bob Ainsworth: The 1987 Intermediate-range Dominie 34 32 Nuclear Forces Treaty is a bilateral treaty between the Tutor EFT 33 45 US and Russia. The UK is not a state party to the treaty Tutor UAS 15 21 and our nuclear deterrent is not bound by its provisions. Tucano 51 49 Hawk 71 60 Harry Cohen: To ask the Secretary of State for Puma 19 21 Defence what his latest estimate is of the lifetime cost Chinook 25 23 of a replacement system for Trident. [288433] Merlin 17 15 Squirrel 19 18 Mr. Bob Ainsworth: I refer the hon. Member to the Sea King 15 12 answer I gave on 13 July 2009, Official Report, column Griffin 49 45 19W, to the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland Augusta 109 1 1 (Mr. Carmichael). Reaper 1 1 Islander 1 1 Parachute Training

Military Bases: Northern Ireland Dr. Fox: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how much expenditure on parachute training his Department Mr. Paterson: To ask the Secretary of State for has incurred in each of the last five years. [284534] Defence pursuant to the answer of 6 July 2009, Official Report, column 558W, on gifts and endowments, which Bill Rammell: The figures provided in the following military bases in Northern Ireland were sold to the table show the operating and staff costs for: No 1 Northern Ireland Executive; and at what cost. [287786] Parachute Training School (PTS), RAF Brize Norton; its Parachute Support Wings; and the Joint Service Mr. Kevan Jones: To date, three sites have been sold Parachute Centres (JSPC). The training undertaken by to the Northern Ireland Executive at market value. the PTS and its support wings provide basic parachute They are Grosvenor Barracks, Enniskillen at £15.45 million, training and specialist high altitude training. The JSPCs Girdwood Barracks, Belfast at £7 million and Clooney undertake freefall parachute training as part of military Barracks, Londonderry at £12.78 million. adventurous training. In addition, working in partnership with the Northern Ireland Housing Executive and the Department of Social Cost (£ million) Development, Oaklee Housing Association were appointed 2004-05 5.2 to take ownership of 112 former Ministry of Defence 2005-06 5.5 houses at Pond Park, Lisburn which were sold for £7 2006-07 5.0 million in financial year 2008-09. 889W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 890W

renamed Sea Viper by the Royal Navy. These costs are Cost (£ million) broadly split 60 per cent. for the ship and 40 per cent. 2007-08 4.6 for the weapons system. As set out in MPR08, the unit 2008-09 5.5 production cost for each Type 45, including PAAMS, is £649 million. The costs include those incurred by the RAF Falcons Display team which cannot be separated. However, the RAF Regiment Field Squadron majority of team members are instructors and their display activities are considered to be training in free-fall techniques which they then use in their role as instructors. Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for Military aircraft costs are excluded as they have already Defence when he expects to announce the UK basing been programmed as part of the RAF Management arrangements for the new RAF Regiment Field Plan and would be incurred whether the aircraft were Squadron. [286987] used for parachute training or other activities. Bill Rammell: I refer the hon. Member to the written During financial year 2005-06 the Parachute Support ministerial statement ‘RAF Force Protection Wing’released Wings were restructured, which is a contributory factor on 9 July 2009, Official Report, column 51WS. The new in the drop in costs in subsequent years. RAF Regiment Field Squadron will be based at either Permanent Joint Headquarters RAF Shawbury or RAF Leuchars. The final outcome of the study to determine the optimum basing solution is expected by autumn 2009. Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence for what reasons there is no permanent RFA Fort Austin representation of (a) the Stabilisation Unit and (b) the Joint Cimic Group at Permanent Joint Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Headquarters. [287937] Defence for how long RFA Fort Austin is planned to remain in extended readiness; and for what reasons it is Mr. Bob Ainsworth: There are good working relationships not being used. [287193] between the Ministry of Defence, Stabilisation Unit and the Joint Civil-Military Co-ordination Group at all Mr. Quentin Davies: I refer the hon. Member to the levels. No requirement has been identified for permanent answer my predecessor, Mr. Ingram, gave to him on 3 representation of the Stabilisation Unit or the Joint May 2007, Official Report, column 1854W. It is MOD Civil-Military Co-ordination Group at the Permanent policy not to publish details of the readiness states of Joint Headquarters given the close engagement that individual Royal Navy and Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessels exists on a wide range of issues. or types. There is an increasingly capable joint effort in Afghanistan brought together through the Civil Military Mission Thermobaric Weapons Helmand which is staffed by civilian personnel from across Whitehall and the armed forces. Willie Rennie: To ask the Secretary of State for Piracy Defence how many times thermobaric weapons have been used by UK armed forces in each of the last 12 months. [281920] Mr. Holloway: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member Bill Rammell [holding answer 23 June 2009]: UK for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) of armed forces use variants of the AGM-114N Hellfire Official Report 29 June 2009, , column 46W, on piracy: missile, which is an enhanced blast weapon, in Afghanistan. Navy, on what authority the Royal Navy has seized The Ministry of Defence does not classify this weapon weapons during the boarding of pirate vessels in the as thermobaric. It is, however, sometimes referred to as last 12 months. [287714] such in the media. The following table provides details of the number of enhanced blast munitions fired on Bill Rammell: In the last 12 months, the Royal Navy operations over the last 12 months. has seized weapons from suspected pirates in accordance with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Number Sea (UNCLOS) Article 105. June 2008 5 Principal Anti Air Missile System: HMS Daring July 2008 3 August 2008 3 Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for September 2008 3 Defence what the estimated cost to the public purse is October 2008 1 of the Principal Anti Air Missile System; and what the November 2008 2 estimated cost is of the construction of HMS Daring. December 2008 0 [287197] January 2009 3 February 2009 4 Mr. Quentin Davies: As set out in the Major Projects March 2009 13 Report 2008 (MPR08), the total procurement cost of April 2009 3 the Type 45 programme is £6.5 billion. This includes the May 2009 3 design and manufacture costs for all six Type 45s to be Total 43 built and the Principal Anti Air Missile System (PAAMS), 891W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 892W

Wind Power: Heysham Ms Rosie Winterton: I have been asked to reply. The Working Capital Scheme is not available directly Geraldine Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for to businesses. The scheme enables participating banks Defence for what reasons his Department has objected to increase the amount of working capital they can to the siting of a wind turbine by British Telecom at make available to businesses. Heysham, Morecambe. [287993] By guaranteeing portfolios of working capital facilities, this will release regulatory capital held by the banks Mr. Kevan Jones: The Ministry of Defence has objected against these portfolios. The banks have agreed they to the Heysham development on the grounds that the will make commitments to re-deploy this capital in turbines would cause unacceptable interference to air order to increase all types of lending to Small and traffic control radar at the nearby Warton airfield. It is Medium sized Enterprise (SMEs) and Mid Size Corporates believed that this would unacceptably jeopardise flight above their current base line. safety in the airspace around the turbines. We have signed £1 billion of guarantees with RBS We are working with the developer and hope that we and Lloyds for portfolios of £2 billion. The financing can find mitigation measures to enable us to remove our for businesses it releases has already started from 1 objection. Failing this, the objection will be maintained. March as a result of the lending agreements based on the Asset Protection Scheme and WCS. We will be allocating from the £10 billion WCS, guarantees for TREASURY trade credit insurance in response to the constraint to working capital arising from withdrawal of trade credit Assets: Sales insurance. We will also be consulting on the viability of using some of these guarantees for letters of credit and Mr. Gordon Prentice: To ask the Chancellor of the other forms of export finance which are also possible Exchequer pursuant to the Prime Minister’s oral areas of constraint for working capital. statement of 29 June 2009, Official Report, columns 21-41, on Building Britain’s Future, what categories of Charities asset he plans to include in the proposed £16 billion asset sale. [284414] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr. Byrne: Budget 2009 announced that new incentives Exchequer what recent discussions he has had with and mechanisms would be introduced with the aim of charities which have lost money as a result of the realising up to £16 billion of property and other asset collapse of Icelandic banks. [287954] sales over the period 2011-14. This comprises fixed asset sales. As announced in “Building Britain’s future”, Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Government take the the Shareholder Executive will be strengthened by the problems faced by the charities affected by the Icelandic appointment of a board of external experts to support banking collapse seriously and Treasury Ministers—the this agenda. Financial Services Secretary and the Economic Secretary— along with the Minister for the Third Sector, have met Banks with representatives of the charities to understand the challenges they face. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many banks he has visited on official Child Trust Fund business in the last 12 months. [287955]

Sarah McCarthy-Fry: I refer the hon. Member to the Steve Webb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer answer given to him on 10 June 2009, Official Report, when he expects to publish the Child Trust Fund column 901W. annual report for 2009. [287319] Budget 2009 Sarah McCarthy-Fry: There is no date fixed for the publication of the next Child Trust Fund Annual Statistical Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Chancellor of the Report. Exchequer how many copies of the Budget 2009 Report his Department ordered; and what the cost was of that order. [287947] Steve Webb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate he has made of the number and Mr. Timms: HM Treasury ordered 1,800 copies of proportion of stakeholder child trust funds which have the Budget 2009 report at a cost of £41,000. This figure decreased in monetary value since they were taken out; has been rounded to the nearest thousand pounds and and what estimate he has made of the average excludes VAT. monetary value of such decreases. [288178]

Business: Government Assistance Sarah McCarthy-Fry: HM Revenue and Customs does not hold data on how many individual child trust Mr. Oaten: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer fund accounts have fallen or risen in value, nor what the how many applications have been made under the average rise or fall in those values has been. Child trust working capital scheme for small and medium-sized funds are long-term investments, and the first accounts businesses to date. [255607] will not mature until 2020. 893W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 894W

Child Trust Fund: Bexley Departmental Accountancy

Mr. Evennett: To ask the Chancellor of the Steve Webb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Exchequer how many children in (a) Bexleyheath and when he expects to publish his Department’s resource Crayford constituency and (b) the London Borough of accounts for 2008-09. [287344] Bexley had received child trust fund payments by the latest date for which figures are available. [288228] Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Department’s resource accounts for 2008-09 have been published. Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The most recent constituency level statistics on child trust fund accounts were published Departmental Conditions of Employment on 6 November 2008 and can be viewed on the HM Revenue and Customs website at: Lynne Featherstone: To ask the Chancellor of the http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ctf/cons-stats-oct08.pdf Exchequer what percentage of employees in his There were 11,700 children born before 6 April 2007 Department are on a (a) flexible working contract and in the London borough of Bexley who have a child trust (b) job share employment contract. [287105] fund account. Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Treasury offers flexible working and job share to staff where operational constraints Child Trust Fund: Hertfordshire permit in order to improve work/life balance. Many flexible working arrangements including job share are Mike Penning: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer made informally between managers and staff and are how many children in (a) Hemel Hempstead constituency, therefore not formally recorded. This information could (b) Dacorum and (c) Hertfordshire had received Child therefore be provided only at disproportionate cost. Trust Fund payments on the latest date for which figures are available. [287861] Departmental Flags

Sarah McCarthy-Fry: In Hertfordshire there were Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Chancellor of the 57,300 children born before 6 April 2007 who have a Exchequer how many flags his Department owns; and child trust fund account. Similarly in Dacorum there what the cost of maintaining them was in the latest were 7,100 such children. period for which figures are available. [287958] I referred the hon. Member to the constituency level data available on the HM Revenue and Customs website Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Treasury owns five flags in my answer to you on 2 July 2009, Official Report, on which no maintenance costs are incurred. column 422W. Departmental Flowers Contracts Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Chancellor of the Mrs. McGuire: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much his Department spent on flowers Exchequer what research has been carried out into the in each of the last five years. [287950] number of contracts for goods or services let by the Government which are then sub-contracted by the Sarah McCarthy-Fry: For information on spending prime contractor. [286713] on flowers by the Department, I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 11 February 2009, Official Ian Pearson: No specific research has been carried Report, column 2101W to the hon. Member for South-West out into the number of contracts let by Government Surrey (Mr. Hunt). Spending in 2004-05 on flowers was which are then subcontracted. the same as in 2005-06. The Glover report, “Accelerating the SME economic Departmental Internet engine”, refers to limited research conducted by Middlesex university and to earlier external research, both covering SME subcontracting and is available at: Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much has been spent on the www.ogc.gov.uk/documents/Accelerating_the_ maintenance of his Departmental website in each of SME_Economic_Engine.pdf the last two years. [287953]

Damian McBride Sarah McCarthy-Fry: For previous answer referring to maintenance costs of the departmental website for Mr. Maude: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer the last two years, I refer the right hon. Member to the on what date the Parliamentary Secretary to the answer given on 10 June 2009, Official Report, column Treasury last met Mr. Damian McBride in the course 901W. of his official duties. [287408] Economic Growth Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The duties and responsibilities of the Chief Whip are not matters for the Treasury. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Chancellor of the However, I understand that the Parliamentary Secretary Exchequer what recent discussions he has had with to the Treasury has not met Mr, Damian McBride in the Ministerial colleagues on economic growth rates over course of his official duties. the next two financial years. [287960] 895W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 896W

Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Treasury’s latest assessment Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The information requested is of the economy was published in Budget 2009 (HC 407). not held centrally and could be provided only at HM Treasury continues to monitor all relevant factors disproportionate cost. It is very difficult to provide to inform its assessment of the UK economy, and has precise figures for the proportion of UK legislation that regular engagements with outside organisations including stems from the European Union. relevant Government Departments on a range of issues relating to the economy. Holiday Homes

Empty Property Miss McIntosh: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what consultation he undertook before Mr. Maude: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer deciding to reclassify income from holiday lets as which public bodies are not required to report their unearned income; [288116] actual and vacant property to the e-PIMS database. (2) what estimate he has made of the effects on the [287360] revenue of the Exchequer of reclassifying income from Ian Pearson: The following public bodies are not holiday lets as unearned income. [288117] required to report their actual and vacant property to the e-PIMS database: Ian Pearson: The Government are not reclassifying income from holiday lets as unearned income. 1. HM Court Service Courts 2. Laboratories Income from furnished holiday lettings will continue 3. Other specialist facilities owned, leased and occupied by to be assessed as property income, but after the repeal central Departments, agencies and NDPB’s such as museums, of the FHL rules, it will no longer be treated as trade power stations and port facilities income for certain purposes. 4. Civil engineering infrastructure owned, leased and used by This change was necessary because the FHL rules central Departments, agencies and NDPB’s such as flood defences, may not be compliant with EU law, it was therefore not roads, canals and railways. appropriate to consult on whether a change should be 5. English Heritage estate. made. 6. Historic Royal Palaces. The repeal was announced in the Budget 2009 in 7. Defence military estate. order to provide advance notice of the change, and 8. Prisons estate. allow those affected time to plan. Although a formal 9. NHS Estate, e.g. hospitals, consultation is not planned, the Government do intend 10. DEFRA estate e.g. farms. to publish draft legislation at the pre-Budget report, 11. F and CO and Home Office overseas estate. and will be happy to receive comments at that time. 12. Doctors’ surgeries and clinics. Estimates of the revenue impact of this change were 13. Schools. published at Budget 2009, and an impact assessment 14. Higher Education facilities. will be published at PBR 2009 alongside the draft 15. Police stations. legislation. 16. Fire stations. 17. All local government estate. Andrew George: To ask the Chancellor of the 18. The Crown estate. Exchequer how many people claimed tax relief for expenditure on furnished holiday letting properties in 19. Parliament’s estate. each of the last five years; and how much was claimed 20. Public corporations’ estate in relief in each of those years. [288205] 21. Devolved assemblies. EU Grants and Loans: Wales Ian Pearson: I refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan) on 5 May 2009, for estimates for 2006-07, Hywel Williams: To ask the Chancellor of the the last full year for which information is available. Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 17 June 2009, Estimates for earlier years are of a similar magnitude. Official Report, column 325W, on EU grants and loans: Wales, whether monies received by the Welsh Assembly Housing Government from the EU Convergence Programme are paid through his Department. [287265] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr. Byrne: The European Commission makes cash Exchequer what recent discussions he has had with payments from the EU Convergence Programme direct Ministerial colleagues on the sale and rent back to the United Kingdom paying authorities, including market. [287949] the devolved Administrations, not through HM Treasury. Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Treasury Ministers and officials EU Law meet with a wide variety of organisations in the public and private sectors to discuss as part of the process of Bob Spink: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer policy development and delivery. As was the case with what estimate he has made of the cost to his Department previous administrations, it is not the Government’s of the statutory obligations upon it provided for in practice to provide details of all such discussions. legislation on matters for which it is responsible which On 1 July 2009, the Government extended the scope were introduced as a consequence of obligations arising of Financial Services Authority (FSA) regulation to from EU legislation in the most recent 12 months for include sale and rent back agreements. The FSA’s regime which figures are available. [283470] affords borrowers important protections and provides 897W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 898W consumers with means of redress in case they experience Sarah McCarthy-Fry: A reply has been sent to the problems. More information on the FSA’s regime is right hon. Member. available at: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Policy/Policy/2009/ Mr. Burns: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 09_09.shtml pursuant to the Answer of 7 July 2009, Official Report, column 778W, on Members: correspondence, for what Housing: Valuation reason the Answer did not set out the information requested on the time taken to reply. [287043] Robert Neill: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer with reference to the answer of 6 November 2008, Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The current economic and financial Official Report, column 682W, on housing: valuation, situation has given rise to a huge increase in the volume what the value significance of each individual locality of correspondence received over the last 12 months in reference in each valuation area in the (a) North East particular. There has been an increase of over 100 per and (b) North West is. [286813] cent. in Members’ correspondence over the previous 12-month period, creating a considerable backlog, which Mr. Timms: A list of locality reference numbers, HM Treasury is in the process of clearing. The hon. ranked in order of value significance by valuation area Member’s correspondence was unfortunately part of within the areas covered by (a) the Government Office that backlog and we apologise for the delay. for the North East and (b) the Government Office for the North West, has been placed in the Library. The list Mr. Sanders: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer is based on data extracted between 9 June 2009 and 17 when he plans to respond to the letter from the hon. June 2009. Member for Torbay of 31 March 2009 on a Information that identifies the extent of each locality constituent, Mr Robert Phillips of Torquay. [287184] can be provided only at disproportionate cost. Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The hon. Member’s Individual Savings Accounts: Pensions correspondence was transferred to the Department of Works and Pension for reply.

Mr. Gregory Campbell: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr. Sanders: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Exchequer if he will assess the merits of permitting when he plans to reply to the letter from the hon. persons with a value of £250,000 or over to add the Member for Torbay of 9 April 2009 on the 2009 Budget; proceeds of such accounts to their personal pension and what the reason is for the time taken to reply. provisions in return for a guarantee of retirement with [287185] immediate effect. [287694] Mr. Timms: I have replied to the hon. Member. Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Individual investors are free to use their savings from individual savings accounts as Mr. Winnick: To ask the Chancellor of the they choose. Any contributions to registered pension Exchequer when he intends to reply to the letter of 10 schemes will be subject to the tax rules that apply to June 2009 from the hon. Member for Walsall North, those schemes. Those rules include limits on the amount regarding a constituent, PO Ref: 6/00416/2009. [287899] of tax relief that is provided. Sarah McCarthy-Fry: A reply has been sent to the Industrial Health and Safety: Training hon. Member.

Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr. Harper: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Exchequer how much his Department spent on health when the Financial Secretary to the Treasury will reply and safety training in each of the last two years. to the letters of 14 April and 20 May 2009 from the hon. [287951] Member for Forest of Dean, on funding for charities and loss of funds with KSF, reference FD1288. [287931] Sarah McCarthy-Fry: Estimated external expenditure on health and safety training was £36,500 in 2007-08 Sarah McCarthy-Fry: A reply was sent to the hon. and £40,000 in 2008-09. Other information and training Member on 14 July. for officials is provided by our in-house health and safety team and costs cannot be identified separately Mr. Harper: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer from their other duties. when he will reply to the letters of 16 April and 14 May 2009 from the hon. Member for Forest of Dean, on Members: Correspondence expatriates, reference FD7868. [287933]

Mr. McLoughlin: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr. Timms: The correspondence was transferred to Exchequer (1) when the Financial Secretary plans to the Department for Works and Pensions on 19 May and respond to the letter from the right hon. Member for a notification sent to the hon. Member on that date. West Derbyshire of 31 March 2009 on the KSFIOM Depositors Group; [280873] Official Gifts (2) when the Financial Secretary will respond to the letter from the right hon. Member for West Derbyshire Mr. Hands: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer of 31 March 2009 on the KSFIOM Depositors Group. what the monetary value is of (a) bequests and (b) [285493] other gifts and donations made to the nation in each of 899W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 900W the last five years; and how much was given (i) in the Revenue and Customs: Communication Service form of (A) cash, (B) works of art and (C) property Providers and (ii) in other forms. [287516] Mrs. Laing: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr. Timms: The information is not available. how many requests for communications data were Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) does made by HM Revenue and Customs to communication hold information on bequests and gifts where tax relief service providers (CSPs) under the Taxes Management has been claimed. However HMRC’s data systems do Act 1970 in (a) 2000, (b) 2001, (c) 2002, (d) 2003, not hold sufficient information to distinguish those (e) 2004, (f) 2005, (g) 2006, (h) 2007 and (i) 2008; which might be regarded as “gifts to the nation”. and how many of these requests resulted in the requested communications data being disclosed by the Procurement relevant CSP. [284868]

Lorely Burt: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr. Timms: Prior to 2005 when the Inland Revenue whether his Department has accepted the and HM Customs and Excise merged to form HM recommendations of the All-Party Parliamentary Revenue AND Customs (HMRC) S.20 Notices under Small Business Group report on access to public the Taxes Management Act were regularly sought by procurement in respect of (a) the introduction of the Inland Revenue Inspectors of Taxes on a case by specific proposals aimed at the micro-enterprise sector case basis and could be issued from any tax office and a and (b) the provision of feedback on unsuccessful copy retained in individual taxpayers folders. There was bids; and if he will make a statement. [287678] no form of central record of the issue of S.20 Notices and the type of information requested. It is therefore Ian Pearson: The Government welcomed the report not possible to provide this information for this period. from the All-Party Parliamentary Small Business Group In February 2006 the HMRC Single Point of Contact on ‘SME Access to Public Procurement’, which identified (SpoC) for the acquisition and disclosure of a similar set of barriers to SME participation as the communications data was designated as the National Glover Review, ‘Accelerating the Economic Engine’. Telecoms Unit who are responsible for all departmental The Government are now working to deliver the Glover matters relating to communications data, including RIPA recommendations, and will continue to take account of requests, witness statements and Production Orders. the needs of all businesses, including micro-enterprises. From 2006 onwards the HMRC SpoC has not issued any S.20 TMA Notices. Property Revenue and Customs: Manpower Sarah Teather: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate he has made of the amount Bob Spink: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer of capital gains tax receipts which would have accrued how many (a) administration assistants, (b) assistant from the UK property market if there had been no officers, (c) officers, (d) higher officers, (e) senior offshoring in the latest period for which figures are officers, (f) fast stream/trainees, (g) Grade 7 available. [287514] employees, (h) Grade 6 employees and (i) senior civil servants there were in each HM Revenue and Customs Mr. Timms: No such estimate has been made. office in each of the last five years. [285536]

Property Unit Trusts Mr. Timms: A table setting out the number of staff in each grade at each HM Revenue and Customs office in each of the last five years has been placed in the Sarah Teather: To ask the Chancellor of the Library. Exchequer what the cost to the public purse was of the exemption from capital gains tax of authorised Tax Credits property unit trusts in the latest period for which figures are available. [287523] Mr. Davidson: To ask the Chancellor of the Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The information requested is Exchequer (1) what his most recent estimate is of the (a) (b) not available. number of people in Scotland, Glasgow and (c) Glasgow South West constituency claiming family Reforming Financial Markets: Public Consultation tax credit; [287596] (2) what his most recent estimate is of the number of people in (a) Scotland, (b) Glasgow and (c) Glasgow Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the South West constituency claiming working tax credit; Exchequer what representations he received from representatives of (a) bank employees and (b) [287597] consumer groups during the drafting of the proposals (3) what his most recent estimate is of the level of contained in Reforming Financial Markets, Cm 7667. take-up of working tax credit in (a) Scotland, (b) [287828] Glasgow and (c) Glasgow South West constituency; [287598] Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The Government are consulting (4) what his most recent estimate is of the level of widely on the proposals contained in Reforming Financial take-up of family tax credit in (a) Scotland, (b) Markets—this includes a formal 12-week consultation Glasgow and (c) Glasgow South West constituency. process, which concludes on 30 September 2009. [287599] 901W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 902W

Mr. Timms: Working families tax credit was replaced Sarah McCarthy-Fry: There were 6.6 million women by working tax credit and child tax credit in April 2003. in receipt of tax relief on pension contributions. This The latest estimates of the average number of families represented 44 per cent. of all recipients. This information benefiting from child and working tax credits in each relates to 2008-09. Government office region, local authority and UK Financial Investments parliamentary constituency are published in the HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) finalised awards geographical Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the publication, ″Child and Working Tax Credits Statistics ″ Exchequer what discussions he has had with the chief Finalised annual awards Geographical analyses for executive of UK Financial Investments on its policy on 2007-08. The publication is available on the HMRC publishing information about its activities. [287851] website at: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- Sarah McCarthy-Fry: HM Treasury has regular stats.htm. discussions with UK Financial Investments and regularly The most recent child tax credit (CTC) take-up rates monitors UKFI’s performance against its objectives. It for United Kingdom regions and countries are published is not the Government’s practice to provide details of on the HMRC website at: all such meetings. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-take- up2006-07.pdf. VAT: Overpayments Child tax credit take-up rates are not available below Mr. Gauke: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer these levels. what estimate he has made of (a) the monetary value Working tax credit take-up rates are not available for of claims lodged with HM Revenue and Customs for geographies below United Kingdom level. repayment of overpaid value added tax arising as a Tax: Isle of Man result of the decision of the House of Lords in the cases of Fleming and Conde Nast and (b) the amount paid out by HM Revenue and Customs in respect of Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Chancellor of the such claims. [282981] Exchequer what recent discussions he has had with the Isle of Man government on Isle of Man tax reforms. Mr. Timms [holding answer 29 June 2009]: The [287948] Government have already made prudent provision in the public finances to represent tax and interest that Mr. Timms: Treasury Ministers and officials hold might be repaid following this ruling. periodic discussions with the Isle of Man. The total value of claims received by HM Revenue Taxation: Banks and Customs (HMRC) as a result of the House of Lords decision in the joined cases of Michael Fleming t/a Bodycraft and Condé Nast Publications Ltd. is Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Chancellor of the estimated at around £8.5 billion. Past experience of Exchequer what recent discussions he has had with the such claims suggests that many will prove either to be banking industry on a code of practice on tax for speculative, incorrect or otherwise overstated. banks. [287959] In those cases so far verified by HMRC, around half Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The consultation document on the amount claimed by tax value has been refused the Code of Practice on Taxation for banks was issued following verification, and around £1.5 billion in tax on 29 June 2009. Since then HM Revenue and Customs and interest has been repaid to date. HMRC is also has been in regular contact with banks, their industry ensuring that taxpayers bring to account any direct tax representatives and advisers regarding the issues arising liabilities created as a result of these repayments. from this. The provision for future repayments of tax and associated interest will be reviewed and adjusted as necessary, to Taxation: Domicil reflect HMRC’s continuing experience in verifying these claims. Mr. Sanders: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what criteria his Department uses to determine when to Working Tax Credit: Morecambe and Lunesdale investigate alleged tax fraud cases concerning (a) non-domiciled status and (b) other matters. [278502] Geraldine Smith: Toask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many people in Morecambe and Lunesdale constituency Mr. Timms: Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs claimed working tax credit in the latest period for which criminal investigation policy is available on its website. figures are available. [288447] The criteria for investigating people with non-domiciled status are no different from those for people with domiciled Mr. Timms: The average number of families benefiting status. A decision to investigate any specific case is from working tax credit in the Morecambe and Lunesdale based on the available evidence, along with the facts parliamentary constituency was 3,720 for 2007-08. and features of the case. This information is given in the HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) finalised awards geographical Taxation: Pensioners publication, “Child and Working Tax Credits Statistics Finalised annual awards Geographical analyses, 2007-08”, Steve Webb: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer available on the HMRC website at: how many and what proportion of recipients of tax http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/personal-tax-credits/cwtc-geog- relief on pension contributions are women. [287326] stats.htm 903W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 904W

World Customs Organisation impacts directly on the circumstances of an individual claimant, then it is duly considered as part of that Mr. Oaten: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer individual’s claim. which Minister is responsible for representing the All Iranian asylum and human rights applications Government’s interest at the World Customs are considered by the Home Office on their individual Organisation. [287992] merits, in accordance with our obligations under the 1951 UN refugee convention and the European convention Mr. Timms: The World Customs Organization (WCO) on human rights (ECHR). is the only intergovernmental organisation with competence on Customs Issues. HM Revenue and Customs officials Each application is assessed against the latest available usually represent the UK’s interests at WCO. I am the information about the situation in Iran. Specially-trained Minister responsible for Customs policy, and I am case owners consult these sources via the Iran Country accountable to Parliament for HMRC. of Origin Information Report produced by UKBA’s Country of Origin Information Service, and the Iran Zimbabwae Operational Guidance Note which gives guidance on the most common types of asylum claims received and Mr. Hands: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer the circumstances in which they are likely to prove what the value of local Zimbabwean bonds held by his founded or unfounded. Department was in each of the last 10 years, expressed in (a) Zimbabwean dollars and (b) pounds sterling. Asylum: Northern Ireland [287517] Sarah McCarthy-Fry: The value held in the last 10 Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for the years is zero: local Zimbabwe bonds are not held in the Home Department how many asylum seekers who entered UK’s foreign currency reserves (the Exchange Equalisation through Northern Ireland airports in the last 12 months Account). have presented as (a) having no identification, (b) being juveniles without any identification and (c) being juveniles without any identification and have subsequently absconded from social services accommodation. [274349] HOME DEPARTMENT Antisocial Behaviour Mr. Woolas: I have written to the hon. Member.

Mr. Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for the Asylum: Offenders Home Department what proportion of local government formula funding has been spent on tackling anti-social Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the behaviour in 2009-10 to date. [282544] Home Department how many foreign nationals of each nationality who have been released from UK prisons Mr. Alan Campbell: Information on the amount spent since 2005 have subsequently applied for asylum in the by local authorities on tackling antisocial behaviour is UK. [282991] not collected centrally. In both England and Wales, it is for local partnerships to agree how the grants received Mr. Woolas: Published statistics on immigration and should be allocated against locally determined priorities, asylum are available from the Library of the House and including tackling antisocial behaviour. from the Home Office Research, Development and Asylum Statistics Directorate website at: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/immigration-asylum- Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for the stats.html Home Department pursuant to the answer of 3 February 2009, Official Report, columns 1040-41W, on asylum, Borders: Police how many of the 500 Iraqi refugees identified for resettlement during 2008-09 under the Gateway Protection Programme Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for the are being or have been resettled from Syria. [255377] Home Department how much funding his Department has allocated to border policing in each year since Mr. Woolas [holding answer 9 February 2009]: I 1997; and if he will make a statement. [282651] wrote to my hon. Friend on 17 July 2009. Asylum: Iran Mr. Hanson: Local forces have responsibility for policing at the border. However, between 1998-99 and 2008-09 David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for the the Home Office contribution to these costs rose from Home Department what recent representations he has £121.4 million to £222.4 million, an increase of 83.2 per received on the effects on policy on Iranian asylum cent. over this period. seekers of the recent unrest in Iran. [286308] The costs of police at ports are met as part of the forces overall policing duties and the division of these Mr. Woolas: We have not received any such funds is a matter for each force, in consultation with the representations. We continue to monitor closely the police authority. In some cases, such as where an airport political and human rights situation in Iran through key is “designated” under the Aviation Security Act 1982, governmental, non-governmental and other human rights contributions are provided by airport operators. Provisions organisations. The visa operation in Tehran is monitored included within the Police and Crime Bill currently on a daily basis by UKBA and FCO. being debated in the other place, include the requirement The asylum determination process assesses the protection for all airports to provide such contributions. No central needs of claimants and where the recent unrest in Iran record is kept of these costs. 905W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 906W

In addition, between April 1998 and April 2009 the Mr. Hanson: There has been no specific funding Home Office made a contribution to the costs of special issued to local authorities or police forces for CCTV branch officers at ports as a part of the dedicated cameras fitted with microphones. security post grants. From April 2009 funding of these Between 1999 and 2003, £170 million of Home Office posts will be made as part of the wider funding of capital funding was made available to local authorities police counter terrorism activity. The overall level of the for investment in public space CCTV.Around 680 CCTV dedicated security post grants for the years it was allocated town centre schemes were set up with this funding. is detailed in the following table. For security reasons, we do not disclose the breakdown of this grant between Closed Circuit Television: York different security functions.

£ million Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much funding allocated by his 1998-99 121.4 Department has been spent on closed circuit television 1999-2000 142.5 in York since 1997. [285709] 2000-01 146.8 2001-02 154.5 Mr. Hanson: Yorkshire and Humberside (information 2002-03 155.3 is not available on a constituency-by-constituency basis) 2003-04 196.5 received a total of £20,357,137 as part of the Home 2004-05 203.4 Office Crime and Disorder Reduction Programme, between 2005-06 212.6 1997 and 2003. No further funding has specifically been 2006-07 212.6 provided for the installation of town centre CCTV 2007-08 212.6 security systems by the Home Office since 2003. However, 2008-09 222.4 crime reduction funding could have been used by Crime and Disorder Reduction Partnerships for CCTV.

Cabinet: Glasgow Community Relations: Finance

Mr. MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr. Paul Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for Home Department (1) how many (a) special advisers the Home Department pursuant to the answer of 21 and (b) officials of his Department accompanied him January 2009, Official Report, column 1482W, on to Glasgow for the Cabinet meeting on 16 April 2009; community relations: finance, which 33 projects receive [273961] funding from the £5.8 million fund to disrupt violent (2) what car journeys he took in attending the extremism; and how much each of these projects will Cabinet meeting in Glasgow on 16 April 2009; [273962] receive in 2008-09 and in each of the two subsequent years. [259142] (3) how much expenditure was incurred by his Department in respect of the Cabinet meeting in Mr. Hanson: The information requested is given in Glasgow on 16 April 2009; [273963] the table. (4) what expenditure on (a) travel, (b) accommodation and (c) food he (i) incurred and (ii) £ officials in his Department in connection with the 2010- Cabinet meeting in Glasgow on 16 April 2009. [273964] Project 2008-091 2009-101 111

UKBA West Midlands 190,000 — — Mr. Woolas: The then Home Secretary was accompanied Pilot by two officials during the Cabinet. No special advisers Metropolitan Police Service 57,511 74,489 — travelled. Swindon 14,560 50,440 — For security reasons we do not disclose details of the Government Office East 191,251 608,749 480,530 Home Secretary’s travel arrangements. Midlands The cost incurred by the two officials supporting the Government Office West 52,665 242,335 — Midlands Home Secretary came to a total of £926.45, including Enfield Borough Council 161,000 144,000 — the cost of return flights, accommodation and meals. and Enfield Police For information relating to the Cabinet and public Lambeth Community 12,000 84,500 — engagement event held in Glasgow on 16 April, I refer safety Partnership the hon. Member to the answer given by my right hon. Wandsworth Borough 11,500 28,500 — Friend the Prime Minister on 3 June 2009, Official Council Report, column 487W. Slough Borough Council 50,000 56,750 — Barnet Borough Council 51,300 59,520 — CCTV Brent Borough Council 96,082 115,918 — DIUS capacity building in 125,000 — — Higher Education Sector Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Universities for North East 15,631 29,369 — for the Home Department what funding his London Borough of 243,000 — — Department has allocated to (a) local authorities and Croydon (b) police forces for the installation and operation of London Borough of 7,500 27,500 — CCTV cameras fitted with microphones in the last 12 Newham months. [284147] Cambridgeshire Police 56,000 — — 907W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 908W

Criminal Records Bureau: Compensation £ 2010- Project 2008-091 2009-101 111 Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much has been paid in Crawley Borough Council 130,000 149,000 — compensation to people whose Criminal Records Birmingham City Council 48,500 49,086 — Bureau disclosure was delayed in each year since the West Sussex County 8,100 112,900 — inception of the disclosure service. [283426] Council ACPO TAM 375,370 — — Mr. Hanson: The Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) Plymouth Crime and 61,594 31,406 — makes financial awards to redress customers for its Disorder Reduction Partnership and Plymouth maladministration in accordance with Treasury Policy. City Council It calculates each award on the merit of the claim. Leeds Counter Terrorism 70,000 — — Awards range from small consolatory payments for Unit inconvenience, to larger sums representing actual loss. Avon and Somerset Police 30,000 49,000 — The CRB does not maintain separate statistics which London Probation 58,000 190,000 190,000 distinguish delay from the other elements which merit Mosaic Mentoring 60,000 185,000 148,000 an award. Network NOMS on behalf of HMP 14,000 — — Cybercrime Woodhill Government Office London 17,500 72,500 — Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State Lancashire Constabulary 180,500 — — for the Home Department (1) what his most recent Council of Ethnic Minority 14,250 34,150 — estimate is of the cost of e-crime to the economy; Voluntary Sector [287110] Organisations (2) how much money was misappropriated through Ealing Community and 76,875 93,025 — Voluntary Service online fraud in the UK in each of the last three years; [286995] South Yorkshire — 50,000 — and if he will make a statement. Constabulary Institute of Community 55,000 — — Mr. Alan Campbell: These data are not kept centrally. Cohesion (ICoCO) The Government prosecute crimes on the basis of the Yorkshire Universities 45,000 45,000 — offence committed and not the medium used. UK legislation Total 2,579,689 2,583,137 818,530 does not distinguish between offences committed online Grand total 5,981,356 or offline and so there are no estimated costs of e-crime 1 These figures are correct at 7 July 2009 or online fraud as a whole. Crime Damian McBride

Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr. Maude: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many offences of (a) less Home Department on what date (a) he and (b) the serious wounding, (b) harassment, (c) assault without Chief Secretary to the Treasury last met Mr. Damian injury, (d) criminal damage to a dwelling, (e) criminal McBride in the course of their official duties. [287368] damage to a building other than a dwelling, (f) criminal damage to a vehicle and (g) other criminal Alan Johnson: I have not met Damian McBride in the damage which were deemed to be racially or religiously course of my ministerial duties, nor have I met him aggravated have been recorded in each police force area personally. in each year since 1997. [286038] Demonstrations: Parliament Square Alan Johnson: The available information is given in the tables placed in the House Library. Racially aggravated Patrick Mercer: To ask the Secretary of State for the offences have been included in the recorded crime series Home Department whether notice of the Tamil from 1999-2000. Religiously aggravated offences were demonstration in Parliament Square and adjacent added in 2002-03. areas has been given to the Commissioner of Police for Crimes of Violence: Essex the Metroplis under section 133 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005; and whether the Commissioner has given authorisation under Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for the section 134 of that Act. [271681] Home Department what proportion of violent crime committed in (a) Essex and (b) Castle Point in each of Mr. Hanson: I am informed by the Commissioner of the last 12 months for which figures are available was the Metropolitan Police that many of those demonstrating perpetrated against (i) young people, (ii) families and in Parliament Square and the adjacent areas did not (iii) pensioners. [287502] notify the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police of their intention to demonstrate in accordance with section Mr. Alan Campbell: The requested information is not 133 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act collected centrally. 2005. Recorded crime data provided to the Home Office On 20 April notice of a demonstration by the British from each police force area cannot separately identify Tamil Student society was given to the Commissioner the individual circumstances of victims. of the Metropolitan Police in accordance with section 909W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 910W

133 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act Mr. Woolas: For the Home Office HQ at 2 Marsham 2005. The Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police street the Department has 10 flags including replacements. authorised the demonstration notified to him as required Union flag replacements are needed every three to six under section 134(2) of the 2005 Act. I am further months according to weather conditions at a cost of informed that a condition was placed on the organisers around £130 per flag. Flag pole maintenance costs are of this demonstration limiting the numbers of participants not held separately as they are part of the building’s to 50 people. overall PFI charge. Information on the number and annual cost of flags held across the rest of the Department Demos is not held centrally.

Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Departmental Internet Home Department whether his Department has any contracts with the think-tank Demos. [279501] Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much his Department has Mr. Hanson: The Home Department has no current spent on maintenance of its website in each year since contract with Demos. However, in 2008 Demos was 2007. [284189] engaged to run workshops on counter terrorism and ethics, and international context courses. Mr. Woolas: The costs of maintaining Home Office websites (i.e. hosting, licensing, domain registration, Departmental Consultants and updates but excluding staff costs) has been:

Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the £ Home Department how much his Department and its agencies have spent on consultants in each year since 2006-07 750,100 1997. [286039] 2007-08 620,000 2008-09 577,000 Alan Johnson: It is not possible to provide figures going back to 1997 without incurring disproportionate Departmental Secondment cost owing to a change in accounting systems during the intervening period. Available information on Home Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for the Department’s consultancy expenditure from 2004-05 is Home Department how many employees of his as follows: Department have been posted to work in offices of hon. Members of each political party in each of the £ million last five years. [284891] Financial Home Department including executive agencies year consultancy expenditure Mr. Woolas: Civil servants are required to act in accordance with the requirements of the Civil Service 2004-05 139 Code. 2005-06 139 2006-07 148 Civil servants may shadow MPs as part of a programme 2007-08 96 run by the industry and Parliament Trust. Details on numbers of civil servants from this Department that 2008-09 140 have had such an attachment are not held centrally. This expenditure on consultancy services is associated with the high volume of major programmes currently Deportation underway across the Department to deliver new technologies and business change, providing skills not readily available Kitty Ussher: To ask the Secretary of State for the within the civil service. Consultancy services are procured Home Department how many foreign nationals with under strict oversight from Commercial Directorate addresses in Burnley were deported in each of the last and are negotiated and contracted in accordance with five years; and how many of them had committed a OGC/NAO guidelines. crime in the UK. [286454]

Departmental Drinking Water Mr. Woolas: The information requested is not readily available and could be obtained only at disproportionate Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for cost. The chief executive of the UK Border Agency has the Home Department how much his Department has regularly written to Home Affairs Select Committee in spent on (a) bottled water and (b) water coolers in order to provide them with all the robust and accurate each of the last six months. [284111] information available relating to foreign national criminals. Copies of these letters are available in the Library of the Mr. Woolas: The requested information cannot be House. obtained without incurring disproportionate cost. Deportation: Prisoners Departmental Flags Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Home Department how many foreign national the Home Department how many flags his Department prisoners who were released from prison between (a) owns and (b) maintains; and what the cost of February 1999 and March 2006 have (a) since been maintaining them was in the last 12 months. [284106] deported and (b) remain at large. [286610] 911W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 912W

Alan Johnson [holding answer 14 July 2009]: The John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Chief Executive of the UK Border Agency has regularly the Home Department whether any (a) data and (b) written to the Home Affairs Select Committee in order samples relating to profiles on the National DNA to provide all of the most robust and accurate information Database have been released to (i) commercial and (ii) on the removal and deportation of foreign national research organisations in each of the last three years prisoners, including those released from prison before for which figures are available. [283446] March 2006. A copy of these letters are available in the Library of the House. Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 2 July 2009]: Requests for the release of data or samples relating to DNA: Databases the DNA profiles held on the National DNA Database (NDNAD) must be approved by the NDNAD Strategy Board. Requests are also considered by the NDNAD Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the Ethics Group, which makes recommendations to the Home Department (1) how many staff of each Board on whether the request should be approved. The organisation authorised to use the national DNA Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) lays down database have been (a) investigated, (b) disciplined that DNA samples and the profiles derived from them and (c) dismissed for unauthorised or improper use of can only be used for the purposes of prevention and that database in each of the last five years; [276825] detection of crime, the investigation of an offence, the (2) whether loss of data obtained from the national conduct of a prosecution or, since April 2005, for the DNA database has been reported by any organisation purposes of identifying a deceased person. In accordance which has access to (a) the database and (b) data from with these requirements, the Board does not approve the database. [276826] any research unless it has clear operational benefit to the police. Alan Johnson: Direct access to information on the Details of requests from commercial organisations National DNA Database (NDNAD) is restricted to a for data or samples relating to profiles held on the limited number of designated personnel under the control NDNAD which have been approved by the NDNAD of the National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA), Strategy Board in each of the last three years and in either directly, or under a contract awarded to the 2009 to date can be found in the following table. No Forensic Science Service (FSS) for operation and requests from research organisations have been approved maintenance of the NDNAD and development of its during this time. The information provided from the IT systems. Throughout the lifetime of the contract, the NDNAD was anonymised (i.e. no details enabling FSS are required to demonstrate compliance with specified individuals to be identified were supplied to the commercial security requirements. Police and law enforcement personnel organisations). do not have access to the information on the NDNAD, but receive reports from the NDNAD Delivery Unit of Details of request matches between DNA taken from crime scenes and 2006-07 Data requested by Cellmark Forensic Services to enable that taken from individuals. the further development of familial searching software. In relation to those NPIA and FSS staff, there has Data requested by LGC Forensics to enable the further been one instance of unauthorised use of the database development of familial searching software. during the last five years. This involved a contractor Samples requested by LGC Forensics to enable the working for the FSS who was found to have used an validation of a system to provide confirmation of rarely found types of DNA. administrator account on the IT system rather than his Permission requested by Cellmark Forensic Services to own. Following an investigation by the NPIA, no evidence provide profiles held by Cellmark to Cybergenetics. of any improper access to database records was found. 2007-08 No requests approved However, as use of the administrator account was in 2008-09 No requests approved contravention of security procedures, the individual 2009-101 No requests approved was removed from further work on the database. No 1 incidents of unauthorised or improper use of match As at 30 June 2009 reports by police and law enforcement personnel have Mrs. Laing: To ask the Secretary of State for the been reported to the NDNAD in the last five years. Home Department for how long records relating to Since the NDNAD was set up in 1995, two instances those (a) convicted of an offence and (b) released of loss of data have been reported. These took place in without charge are kept on the National Fingerprint February 2009 when the FSS faxed DNA reports intended database. [283525] for two police forces to incorrect fax numbers. In both instances, the faxes were either retrieved by the police or Mr. Alan Campbell: Fingerprints records are currently destroyed within 36 hours of the event. A thorough retained indefinitely on IDENT1 (the national fingerprint investigation was undertaken by the NPIA and reported database) for persons arrested for a recordable offence, to the Home Office. No evidence was found of any whether or not subject to a conviction or acquittal or no malicious intent by any individual. further action. Proposals on future retention policy are As a result of the investigation into this incident, an set out in the public consultation paper ‘Keeping the existing project to replace use of fax was accelerated. As right people on the DNA Database’ published on 7 from 17 April 2009, fax has no longer been used to May 2009. transmit any DNA reports to forces. They are now sent in line with Cabinet Office guidance over a secure Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the network either by email or as a web service on a secure Home Department how many arrests have been made network. of people who were matched to a crime using the 913W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 914W national DNA database but who were not subsequently Table 1: Young People Substance Misuse Partnership Grant (YPSMPG): Home charged with an offence in the latest period for which Office allocations for young people substance misuse services £ figures are available. [285950] Total DAAT 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 allocations Alan Johnson: I refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave him on 30 June 2009, Official Report, column Barking and 114,008 78,857 78,857 271,722 Dagenham 165W. Barnet 126,888 99,214 99,214 325,316 Barnsley 98,104 55,500 55,500 209,104 Driving Offences: Alcoholic Drinks Bath and NE 49,691 30,589 30,589 110,869 Somerset Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the Bedfordshire 108,350 71,597 71,597 251,544 Home Department how many (a) blood and (b) urine Bexley 82,103 58,202 58,202 198,507 samples related to suspected incidents of drink-driving Birmingham 529,274 427,308 427,308 1,383,890 Blackburn with 85,922 48,017 48,017 181,956 were processed at each Forensic Science Service centre Darwen in each of the last five years. [283333] Blackpool 78,513 43,245 43,245 165,003 Bolton 191,121 149,899 149,899 490,919 Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 30 June 2009]: Bournemouth 58,467 40,776 40,776 140,019 The records on blood and urine tests carried out by the Bracknell Forest 35,621 22,238 22,238 80,097 FSS are generated by the machines running the analysis. Bradford 346,561 286,332 286,332 919,225 These records do not differentiate between tests on or Brent 169,467 136,677 136,677 442,821 for blood and urine and cannot be broken down by Brighton and Hove 101,560 70,782 70,782 243,124 type. The detailed breakdown of combined blood and Bristol 243,618 202,971 202,971 649,560 urine is outlined as follows: Bromley 97,691 72,952 72,952 243,595 Buckinghamshire 117,902 79,989 79,989 277,880 Total samples analysed Bury 75,812 45,376 45,376 166,564 2003 20,833 Calderdale 155,228 120,943 120,943 397,114 2004 20,361 Cambridgeshire 142,737 88,565 88,565 319,867 Camden 223,325 187,363 187,363 598,051 2005 17,683 Cheshire 180,544 122,306 122,306 425,156 2006 13,336 City of London 2,710 2,089 2,089 6,888 2007 10,228 Cornwall 167,393 102,763 102,763 372,919 2008 9,257 Coventry 137,228 96,843 96,843 330,914 2009 (year to date) 4,385 Croydon 154,167 120,020 120,020 394,207 Total 96,083 Cumbria 175,939 90,052 90,052 356,043 Darlington 51,296 24,032 24,032 99,360 The FSS estimates that 90 to 95 per cent. of these will Derby 101,826 65,819 65,819 233,464 be blood samples. Derbyshire 197,203 124,579 124,579 446,361 The Chorley laboratory is the only FSS laboratory Devon 211,851 125,887 125,887 463,625 currently processing such samples. This has been the Doncaster 122,252 75,109 75,109 272,470 case for more than 10 years Dorset 106,370 64,113 64,113 234,596 Dudley 104,102 68,645 68,645 241,392 Drug and Alcohol Action Team Durham 181,028 115,930 115,930 412,888 Ealing 226,969 194,847 194,847 616,663 East Riding of 90,396 45,851 45,851 182,098 James Brokenshire: To ask the Secretary of State for Yorkshire the Home Department how much his Department East Sussex 151,736 105,521 105,521 362,778 allocated to each drug and alcohol action team in Enfield 131,808 97,313 97,313 326,434 England in (a) 2007-08 and (b) 2008-09; and how Essex 346,858 253,094 253,094 853,046 much has been allocated for 2009-10. [284831] Gateshead 96,202 56,947 56,947 210,096 Gloucestershire 159,408 104,628 104,628 368,664 Mr. Alan Campbell: The following tables show the Greenwich 166,044 127,918 127,918 421,880 amount of funding allocated to each DA(A)T in England Hackney 326,567 275,352 275,352 877,271 in the periods 2007-08, 2008-09 and 2009-10 under each Halton 64,113 42,369 42,369 148,851 of the specified grant programmes: Hammersmith and 135,641 107,898 107,898 351,437 Table 1: Young People Substance Misuse Partnership Grant Fulham (YPSMPG) Hampshire 268,077 210,351 210,351 688,779 Haringey 241,445 197,030 197,030 635,505 Table 2: Drug Interventions Programme (DIP) Main Grant Harrow 79,601 57,326 57,326 194,253 Table 3: Alcohol Arrest Referral (AAR) Pilot Grant Hartlepool 65,712 27,852 27,852 121,416 Since 2008-09, arrangements for the payment of the Havering 73,608 51,438 51,438 176,484 YPSMPG have seen one element of the previously Herefordshire 58,831 30,568 30,568 119,967 pooled budget routed through area based grant which is Hertfordshire 265,090 207,120 207,120 679,330 paid to local authorities by communities and Local Hillingdon 95,757 69,984 69,984 235,725 Government on a non ring-fenced basis to allow maximum Hounslow 112,438 85,044 85,044 282,526 local flexibility; and other elements are paid to youth Isle of Wight 42,343 31,767 31,767 105,877 offending teams through the Youth Justice Board or to Council primary care trusts through the pooled treatment budget. Isles of Scilly1 ——— — 915W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 916W

Table 1: Young People Substance Misuse Partnership Grant (YPSMPG): Home Table 1: Young People Substance Misuse Partnership Grant (YPSMPG): Home Office allocations for young people substance misuse services Office allocations for young people substance misuse services £ £ Total Total DAAT 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 allocations DAAT 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 allocations

Islington 252,269 207,221 207,221 666,711 South Tyneside 91,956 53,128 53,128 198,212 Kensington and 109,637 88,419 88,419 286,475 Southampton 94,144 68,971 68,971 232,086 Chelsea Southend on Sea 74,025 47,973 47,973 169,971 Kent 386,581 283,217 283,217 935,105 Southwark 314,878 272,018 272,018 858,914 Kingston upon 218,050 168,267 168,267 554,585 St Helens 85,580 47,880 47,880 181,340 Hull Staffordshire 207,713 136,265 136,265 480,243 Kingston upon 50,419 36,539 36,539 123,497 Thames Stockport 92,230 61,938 61,938 216,106 Kirklees 144,314 97,496 97,496 339,306 Stockton on Tees 85,160 49,359 49,359 183,878 Knowsley 122,932 75,080 75,080 273,092 Stoke on Trent 111,004 67,429 67,429 245,862 Lambeth 314,344 274,035 274,035 862,414 Suffolk 185,611 118,769 118,769 423,149 Lancashire 358,613 260,553 260,553 879,719 Sunderland 132,739 84,893 84,893 302,525 Leeds 411,448 347,660 347,660 1,106,768 Surrey 236,487 178,336 178,336 593,159 Leicester 148,627 103,746 103,746 356,119 Sutton 70,772 51,606 51,606 173,984 Leicestershire 136,968 82,514 82,514 301,996 Swindon 62,758 38,168 38,168 139,094 Lewisham 201,175 166,017 166,017 533,209 Tameside 98,302 60,583 60,583 219,468 Lincolnshire 200,624 110,353 110,353 421,330 Telford and 72,625 40,745 40,745 154,115 Wrekin Liverpool 399,249 329,020 329,020 1,057,289 Thurrock 64,591 39,206 39,206 143,003 Luton 91,744 61,732 61,732 215,208 Torbay 60,670 35,263 35,263 131,196 Manchester 397,828 330,739 330,739 1,059,306 Tower Hamlets 337,670 287,884 287,884 913,438 Medway 88,974 59,519 59,519 208,012 Trafford 79,784 51,199 51,199 182,182 Merton 79,836 61,224 61,224 202,284 Wakefield 119,818 75,506 75,506 270,830 Middlesbrough 182,024 152,426 152,426 486,876 Walsall 116,259 75,499 75,499 267,257 Milton Keynes 81,475 54,495 54,495 190,465 Waltham Forest 199,097 162,774 162,774 524,645 Newcastle upon 137,326 92,798 92,798 322,922 Tyne Wandsworth 197,972 175,161 175,161 548,294 Newham 302,515 250,250 250,250 803,015 Warrington 59,466 39,601 39,601 138,668 Norfolk 299,859 145,613 145,613 591,085 Warwickshire 137,033 88,851 88,851 314,735 North East 80,216 44,167 44,167 168,550 West Berkshire 39,882 22,201 22,201 84,284 Lincolnshire West Sussex 186,979 135,619 135,619 458,217 North 63,151 32,015 32,015 127,181 Westminster 173,409 142,615 142,615 458,639 Lincolnshire Wigan 114,764 71,236 71,236 257,236 North Somerset 56,512 33,557 33,557 123,626 Wiltshire 121,067 72,425 72,425 265,917 North Tyneside 87,037 54,177 54,177 195,391 Windsor and 38,075 24,827 24,827 87,729 North Yorkshire 179,532 89,833 89,833 359,198 Maidenhead Northamptonshire 190,872 127,851 127,851 446,574 Wirral 149,089 103,543 103,543 356,175 Northumberland 123,428 58,370 58,370 240,168 Wokingham 24,188 19,151 19,151 62,490 Nottingham 238,203 187,121 187,121 612,445 Wolverhampton 123,899 81,282 81,282 286,463 Nottinghamshire 213,683 142,917 142,917 499,517 Worcestershire 137,264 94,923 94,923 327,110 Oldham 108,551 68,959 68,959 246,469 York 53,515 31,996 31,996 117,507 Oxfordshire 157,520 106,636 106,636 370,792 1 Due to long standing arrangements, figures for Isles of Scilly will continue to Peterborough 75,148 46,296 46,296 167,740 been shown as part of Cornwall’s allocation and not separated out here Plymouth 106,731 71,213 71,213 249,157 Table 2: Drug Interventions Programme (DIP) Main Grant Poole 39,302 27,975 27,975 95,252 £ Portsmouth 83,161 59,537 59,537 202,235 DAT (DIP Main Grant funding) 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Total Reading 123,481 105,324 105,324 334,129 Redbridge 98,532 71,590 71,590 241,712 Barking and 273,407 277,508 277,508 828,423 Redcar and 61,189 40,803 40,803 142,795 Dagenham Cleveland Barnet 300,231 304,734 304,734 909,700 Richmond upon 52,455 39,050 39,050 130,555 Barnsley 807,613 819,727 819,727 2,447,067 Thames Bath and North 134,504 136,522 136,522 407,547 Rochdale 183,157 141,068 141,068 465,293 East Somerset Rotherham 104,968 64,187 64,187 233,342 Bedfordshire 348,484 353,711 353,711 1,055,907 Rutland 6,418 7,925 7,925 22,268 Bexley 194,876 197,799 197,799 590,474 Salford 190,566 147,003 147,003 484,572 Birmingham 5,287,239 5,366,548 5,366,548 16,020,334 Sandwell 147,319 99,353 99,353 346,025 Blackburn with 277,625 281,789 281,789 841,204 Darwen Sefton 121,670 81,629 81,629 284,928 Blackpool 472,805 479,897 479,897 1,432,599 Sheffield 194,126 141,463 141,463 477,052 Bolton 1,136,727 1,153,778 1,153,778 3,444,283 Shropshire 72,526 44,841 44,841 162,208 Bournemouth 196,173 199,116 199,116 594,404 Slough 64,523 42,780 42,780 150,083 Bracknell Forest 100,096 101,597 101,597 303,291 Solihull 72,443 45,170 45,170 162,783 Bradford 1,926,287 1,955,181 1,955,181 5,836,650 Somerset 145,321 86,804 86,804 318,929 Brent 1,203,160 1,221,207 1,221,207 3,645,573 South 61,763 39,196 39,196 140,155 Brighton and Hove 384,808 390,580 390,580 1,165,968 Gloucestershire 917W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 918W

Table 2: Drug Interventions Programme (DIP) Main Grant Table 2: Drug Interventions Programme (DIP) Main Grant £ £ DAT (DIP Main DAT (DIP Main Grant funding) 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Total Grant funding) 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Total

Bristol 2,448,659 2,485,389 2,485,389 7,419,437 Manchester 2,848,647 2,891,377 2,891,377 8,631,400 Bromley 255,437 259,269 259,269 773,974 Medway 234,608 238,127 238,127 710,862 Buckinghamshire 294,905 299,329 299,329 893,562 Merton 171,555 174,128 174,128^ 519,812 Bury 552,298 560,582 560,582 1,673,463 Middlesbrough 1,022,237 1,037,571 1,037,571 3,097,378 Calderdale 685,101 695,378 695,378 2,075,856 Milton Keynes 163,880 166,338 166,338 496,556 Cambridgeshire 359,344 364,734 364,734 1,088,812 Newcastle Upon 1,290,574 1,309,933 1,309,933 3,910,439 Camden 1,191,678 1,209,553 1,209,553 3,610,785 Tyne Cheshire 367,961 373,480 373,480 1,114,922 Newham 1,357,782 1,378,148 1,378,148 4,114,078 City of London 320,297 325,101 325,101 970,500 Norfolk 569,371 577,912 577,912 1,725,194 Cornwall and Isles 306,005 310,595 310,595 927,195 North East 914,255 927,969 927,969 2,770,193 of Scilly Lincolnshire Coventry 900,865 914,378 914,378 2,729,621 North Lincolnshire 786,869 798,672 798,672 2,384,213 Croydon 1,001,817 1,016,844 1,016,844 3,035,504 North Somerset 116,374 118,120 118,120 352,613 Cumbria 339,955 345,054 345,054 1,030,064 North Tyneside 205,693 208,778 208,778 623,250 Darlington 182,146 184,878 184,878 551,902 North Yorkshire 364,011 369,471 369,471 1,102,953 Derby 468,178 475,201 475,201 1,418,579 Northamptonshire 1,034,269 1,049,783 1,049,783 3,133,835 Derbyshire 602,601 611,640 611,640 1,825,881 Northumberland 314,636 319,356 319,356 953,347 Devon 325,754 330,640 330,640 987,035 Nottingham 1,794,787 1,821,709 1,821,709 5,438,205 Doncaster 1,317,965 1,337,734 1,337,734 3,993,434 Nottinghamshire 2,339,136 2,374,223 2,374,223 7,087,582 Dorset 158,403 160,779 160,779 479,961 Oldham 890,494 903,851 903,851 2,698,197 Dudley 723,448 734,300 734,300 2,192,047 Oxfordshire 1,195,115 1,213,042 1,213,042 3,621,198 Durham 500,671 508,181 508,181 1,517,033 Peterborough 774,057 785,668 785,668 2,345,393 Ealing 988,786 1,003,618 1,003,618 2,996,021 Plymouth 279,400 283,591 283,591 846,582 East Riding of 226,328 229,723 229,723 685,774 Poole 92,250 93,634 93,634 279,518 Yorkshire Portsmouth 282,678 286,918 286,918 856,514 East Sussex 356,965 362,319 362,319 1,081,604 Reading 1,106,837 1,123,440 1,123,440 3,353,716 Enfield 759,292 770,682 770,682 2,300,655 Redbridge 663,812 673,769 673,769 2,011,350 Essex 826,742 839,143 839,143 2,505,028 Redcar and 280,159 284,361 284,361 848,882 Gateshead 627,944 637,363 637,363 1,902,670 Cleveland Gloucestershire 361,046 366,462 366,462 1,093,969 Richmond upon 124,080 125,941 125,941 375,962 Thames Greenwich 827,205 839,613 839,613 2,506,432 Rochdale 778,885 790,568 790,568 2,360,022 Hackney 1,513,524 1,536,227 1,536,227 4,585,979 Rotherham 756,064 767,405 767,405 2,290,874 Halton 137,823 139,890 139,890 417,604 Rutland 5,956 6,045 6,045 18,047 Hammersmith and 1,118,469 1,135,246 1,135,246 3,388,960 Fulham Salford 771,116 782,683 782,683 2,336,481 Hampshire 602,349 611,384 611,384 1,825,117 Sandwell 1,003,679 1,018,734 1,018,734 3,041,147 Haringey 1,243,541 1,262,194 1,262,194 3,767,930 Sefton 659,800 669,697 669,697 1,999,194 Harrow 222,376 225,712 225,712 673,799 Sheffield 2,348,164 2,383,386 2,383,386 7,114,937 Hartlepool 609,010 618,145 618,145 1,845,300 Shropshire 167,636 170,151 170,151 507,937 Havering 172,767 175,359 175,359 523,484 Slough 854,146 866,958 866,958 2,588,062 Herefordshire 133,323 135,323 135,323 403,969 Solihull 407,131 413,238 413,238 1,233,607 Hertfordshire 768,856 780,389 780,389 2,329,634 Somerset 316,763 321,514 321,514 959,792 Hillingdon 249,873 253,621 253,621 757,115 South 132,788 134,780 134,780 402,348 Gloucestershire Hounslow 794,244 806,158 806,158 2,406,559 South Tyneside 244,095 247,756 247,756 739,608 Isle of Wight 119,619 121,413 121,413 362,446 Southampton 307,778 312,395 312,395 932,567 Islington 1,333,277 1,353,276 1,353,276 4,039,830 Southend 166,947 169,451 169,451 505,849 Kensington and 1,008,137 1,023,259 1,023,259 3,054,656 Chelsea Southwark 1,655,389 1,680,219 1,680,219 5,015,827 Kent 1,151,373 1,168,644 1,168,644 3,488,660 St Helens 230,790 234,252 234,252 699,294 Kingston upon 1,422,020 1,443,350 1,443,350 4,308,721 Staffordshire 644,560 654,228 654,228 1,953,017 Hull Stockport 664,181 674,144 674,144 2,012,468 Kingston Upon 116,026 117,766 117,766 351,559 Stockton 688,901 699,235 699,235 2,087,370 Thames Stoke on Trent 363,586 369,040 369,040 1,101,666 Kirklees 1,219,885 1,238,183 1,238,183 3,696,252 Suffolk 451,164 457,931 457,931 1,367,027 Knowsley 221,793 225,120 225,120 672,033 Sunderland 782,823 794,565 794,565 2,371,954 Lambeth 1,930,537 1,959,495 1,959,495 5,849,526 Surrey 554,147 562,459 562,459 1,679,065 Lancashire 1,119,486 1,136,278 1,136,278 3,392,043 Sutton 159,878 162,276 162,276 484,430 Leeds 2,737,443 2,778,505 2,778,505 8,294,452 Swindon 164,132 166,594 166,594 497,320 Leicester 1,558,632 1,582,011 1,582,011 4,722,655 Tameside 823,130 835,477 835,477 2,494,084 Leicestershire 425,618 432,002 432,002 1,289,623 Telford and Wrekin 173,915 176,524 176,524 526,962 Lewisham 1,378,639 1,399,318 1,399,318 4,177,275 Thurrock 150,379 152,635 152,635 455,648 Lincolnshire 586,959 595,763 595,763 1,778,486 Torbay 213,239 216,438 216,438 646,114 Liverpool 2,154,389 2,186,705 2,186,705 6,527,799 Tower Hamlets 1,415,658 1,436,893 1,436,893 4,289,445 Luton 700,528 711,036 711,036 2,122,600 Trafford 693,096 703,492 703,492 2,100,081 919W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 920W

Table 2: Drug Interventions Programme (DIP) Main Grant the proportion of statutory obligations provided for by £ legislation on matters for which his Department is DAT (DIP Main responsible, which were introduced as a consequence of Grant funding) 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Total obligations arising from EU legislation in the latest Wakefield 1,094,559 1,110,977 1,110,977 3,316,514 period for which figures are available; [281862] Walsall 642,837 652,480 652,480 1,947,796 (2) what estimate he has made of the cost to his Waltham Forrest 925,327 939,206 939,206 2,803,740 Department of the statutory obligations upon it Wandsworth 1,034,156 1,049,668 1,049,668 3,133,493 provided for in legislation introduced as a consequence Warrington 142,628 144,767 144,767 432,163 of obligations arising from EU legislation in the most Warwickshire 474,417 481,533 481,533 1,437,484 recent 12 months for which figures are available. West Berkshire 94,930 96,354 96,354 287,638 [283474] West Sussex 392,398 398,284 398,284 1,188,966 Westminster 2,016,350 2,046,595 2,046,595 6,109,540 Mr. Woolas: It is very difficult to provide precise Wigan 1,046,181 1,061,874 1,061,874 3,169,928 figures for the proportion of UK legislation that stems Wiltshire 216,549 219,797 219,797 656,143 from the European Union and the consequent cost. All Windsor and 103,195 104,743 104,743 312,681 Maidenhead proposals for EU legislation are, however, deposited Wirral 525,360 533,240 533,240 1,591,841 with Parliament with an assessment of any legislative Wokingham 92,159 93,541 93,541 279,242 changes that would be required to implement them in Wolverhampton 826,579 838,978 838,978 2,504,534 the UK and an explanation of the HMG policy in the Worcestershire 332,987 337,982 337,982 1,008,951 area concerned, including in the case of proposals on York 187,359 190,169 190,169 567,698 migration and asylum, by choosing not to opt in to them where appropriate. Table3-Alcohol Arrest Referral (AAR) pilot grant: Alcohol Arrest The origins of a regulation could be a devolved Referral (AAR) pilot grant funding Administration or a local authority, as well as the £ Government or the EU. All regulations, irrespective of Drug and Alcohol their origins, should comply with the principles of better Action Team 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Total regulation. Regulations should be risk based, proportionate and well designed, so as to achieve their objectives Chester 82,000 125,500 — 207,500 whilst also keeping costs to a minimum. The Government Cleveland — 94,350 227,066 321,416 continue to work with European partners to ensure that Cumbria — 42,195 89,130 131,325 EU regulations meet these standards. East Sussex — 35,000 138,334 173,334 Leicester, — 72,730 156,770 229,500 Leicestershire Entry Clearances and Rutland Lincolnshire — 25,000 83,875 108,875 Mr. Carswell: To ask the Secretary of State for the Liverpool 82,000 166,500 138,750 387,250 Home Department how many and what proportion of Manchester 82,000 91,500 — 173,500 applications for family visit visas from (a) India, (b) North East — 31,250 75,000 106,250 Nigeria, (c) Bangladesh and (d) Pakistan have been Lincolnshire refused in each of the last six years. [273592] Northamptonshire — 54,335 129,831 184,166 Staffordshire — 30,000 10,0000 130,000 Swindon — 40,416 87084 127,500 Mr. Woolas: The number of applications family visit visas (a) received and (b) refused at UK visa-issuing Total 246,000 808,776 1,225,840 2,280,616 posts in India, Nigeria, Bangladesh and Pakistan in EU Law each of the last five calendar years is shown in the following tables, together with refusal rates for each Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for the country/year. Reliable data is not held for years prior to Home Department (1) what estimate he has made of 2004.

2004 2005 Applications Refusal rate Applications Refusal rate received Refused (percentage) received Refused (percentage)

Bangladesh 6,703 2,169 43 9,356 3,458 36 India 83,089 15,648 19 99,341 20,024 21 Nigeria 41,157 15,788 41 60,065 25,125 44 Pakistan 31,932 6,727 36 57,122 25,901 43

2006 2007 Applications Refusal rate Applications Refusal rate received Refused (percentage) received Refused (percentage)

Bangladesh 12,760 4,547 36 13,909 5,351 40 India 108,572 20,548 19 108,233 22,193 21 Nigeria 59,276 30,353 52 52,042 25,309 46 921W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 922W

2006 2007 Applications Refusal rate Applications Refusal rate received Refused (percentage) received Refused (percentage)

Pakistan 86,664 28,575 33 75,769 31,611 41

laboratories. Closure of the Chorley site is currently 2008 only a proposal, to be tested and challenged through Applications Refusal rate the consultation process. received Refused (percentage)

Bangladesh 11,381 3,966 35 Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the India 98,645 16,647 17 Home Department whether the Forensic Science Nigeria 42,612 18,532 43 Service (FSS) has consulted all coroners on (a) the Pakistan 56,477 28,750 47 proposed headcount reduction in the FSS and (b) the proposed closure of the Chorley FSS laboratory. The data is unpublished and should be treated as [285004] provisional. Mr. Alan Campbell: The Forensic Science Service Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the (FSS) has a pathology laboratory based in Sheffield. Home Department how many (a) visa entry clearance Staff at this facility have held discussions on the officers and (b) risk assessment officers are employed transformation of the FSS with local coroners. in (i) Islamabad, (ii) Pakistan and (iii) Afghanistan. The FSS has discussed the principles of a revised site [280138] structure with all of its core customers. There have been no specific discussions on these proposals with coroners Alan Johnson: For security and efficiency reasons, we beyond those spoken to by the facility in Sheffield. have transferred visa decision-making for Pakistan to our visa sections in Abu Dhabi and the UK. We have 34 Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the Entry Clearance Officers (ECOs) in Abu Dhabi, including Home Department whether the Forensic Science seasonal relief staff, and a full staffing capacity of five Service (FSS) has consulted all police authorities in the ECOs in the UK working on Pakistan casework. 13 North West on (a) the proposed headcount reduction ECOs currently remain in Islamabad. in the FSS and (b) the proposed closure of the Chorley Risk and Liaison Overseas Network staff are employed FSS laboratory. [285005] on a risk assessment basis. We do not have a visa office in Afghanistan. Mr. Alan Campbell: Police authorities have not been consulted on proposed changes but each police force Entry Clearances: Pakistan has been consulted. It is the police forces who are the direct customers of the Forensic Science Service, and as such, they are the people with whom such discussions Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the have taken place. Home Department what percentage of visa applications received by the consulate in (a) Karachi Forensic Science Service Transformation Plan: and (b) Lahore in the last 12 months for which figures Consultants are available were checked for fraud by entry clearance officers in each post. [272744] John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department which consultants have been Alan Johnson: There are no entry clearance officers engaged to work on the Forensic Science Service (ECOs) posted to Karachi or Lahore. All checks for Transformation Plan; what the monetary value of each fraud are carried out in Islamabad, where there are 10 contract is; and what task each contract is for. [283866] ECOs. All applications are checked for fraud. Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 3 July 2009]: The Forensic Science Service only major consultancy services engaged by the Forensic Science Service (FSS) have been obtained from Deloitte Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the (who assisted in 2008 with preliminary thinking on Home Department what recent assessment has been business transformation). Deloitte has also been the made of the likely effect of a closure of the Chorley FSS pension advisers for some time. FSS have used a Forensic Science Service (FSS) laboratory on FSS number of specialist providers in a smaller way to response times for analysing evidence. [285003] support the design of the business transformation programme. The transformation team itself has also Mr. Alan Campbell: The Forensic Science Service has been staffed by a number of agency and interim specialists undertaken detailed analysis of projected casework demand, to work alongside and train in-house resources (for throughput and detailed force requirements in accordance example Lean Sigma training). Some components of with the National Forensic Framework Agreement, and the transformation (e.g. IT enabling projects) will involve in conjunction with the expected efficiencies from their the engagement of a number of our existing external ongoing Transformation programme. Their conclusion service support providers (e.g. Cap Gemini), but these is that they can service demand, within contractually companies are not involved in the provision of broader binding response times, from a reduced number of consultancy services. 923W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 924W

The work undertaken by Deloitte in 2008, which recently met with the north west ACPO procurement constitutes the only single major contract, cost £1.5 lead from Cheshire constabulary, at his request, to million. discuss the plans in detail. There have been no representations from coroners or Forensic Science Service: Chepstow from the Isle of Man Government.

Jessica Morden: To ask the Secretary of State for the Freedomain Radio Home Department what information his Department has provided to staff at the Chepstow Forensic Science Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the Service laboratory on the proposed Forensic Science Home Department whether he has received reports on Service closure and redundancy programme. [286623] the activities of Freedomain Radio in the last two years; and if he will make a statement. [278289] Mr. Alan Campbell: On 24 June, the Forensic Science Service (FSS) shared proposals about the approach to Alan Johnson: I have not been made aware of any redundancy and operational site deployment with both reports on the activities of this website. trade union and employee forum representatives and copies of these proposals were made available to all FSS Global Initiative to Combat Nuclear Terrorism staff. The approach to redundancy proposal covers: Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for the Individual consultation Home Department what support the UK has Appeals process undertaken to provide for the Global Initiative to Maximising redeployment opportunities Combat Nuclear Terrorism (GICNT); where the Trial periods secretariat of GICNT is based; and when the next Notice periods meeting of participating parties will be. [287536] Support and outplacement Redundancy package Mr. Ivan Lewis: I have been asked to reply. Voluntary redundancy. The UK has held two Global Initiative to Combat The operational site deployment proposal covers the Nuclear Terrorism (GICNT) events with international approach, rationale and proposed site deployment based partners to date. A nuclear smuggling workshop in on the proposed move to national business streams. It September 2007 and a knowledge proliferation seminar provides details about: in October 2008. The next UK GICNT event will take place in London in early 2010, when we will host a joint the options considered; workshop with the US on the issue of detecting radiological the criteria against which the proposed option was selected materials. (e.g. co-location of body fluid/DNA casework; In addition to hosting workshops, we regularly send available laboratory space; UK experts to events hosted by partners to share delivery of the national framework products/services and quality; information on a range of issues spanning the GICNT lowest risk to customer disengagement; principles. Recent examples of this are: a workshop in the operational considerations and impacts. Garmisch in May 2009, to design a nuclear detection framework document; a workshop in Rabat in June Forensic Science Service: Chorley 2009 concerning the trafficking of dangerous materials; and a workshop in Canberra in July 2009 on consequence management. Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the The GICNT does not have a secretariat. The US and Home Department how much has been spent on updating Russia are co-chairs, with the annual plenary and workshops equipment at Chorley Forensic Science Service laboratory held by partners on a voluntary basis. The last plenary in each of the last five years. [283334] was held in June 2009 in The Hague. The next meeting of partners will be in the Netherlands Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 30 June 2009]: on 24-26 November 2009 at a workshop to examine During 2004-05, £451,000 was spent on new scientific international co-operation and information sharing in a equipment for the Chorley laboratory. In 2005-06, this nuclear-radiological security event. fell to around £233,000 and in 2006-07, dropped to just under £48,000. In 2007-08 this figure stood at £163,000. There has been no spend on equipment during 2008-09. Homicide

Mr. Hoyle: To ask the Secretary of State for the Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what representations have been Home Department how many cases of homicide received from (a) police forces in the North West, (b) involving killing by a sharp instrument there have been coroners based in the North West and (c) the Isle of in each police force area in each year since 1997. Man government on the proposed closure of the [281673] Forensic Science Service laboratory in Chorley. [286413] Mr. Alan Campbell: Available information is from the Mr. Alan Campbell: As part of ongoing discussions Homicide Index and relates to the number of homicides with customers regarding the proposed restructure of recorded by police in England and Wales between 1997-98 the Forensic Science Service, senior staff from the company and 2007-08. 925W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 926W

Homicides currently recorded1 where apparent method of killing is sharp instrument2, by police force area: England and Wales Year offence initially recorded as homicide3 1999- Police force area 1997-98 1998-99 2000 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08

Avon and Somerset 3 5 5 34444246 Bedfordshire 3 2 1 27114333 British Transport —————————1 1 Police Cambridgeshire 1 1 4 - 1252224 Cheshire 3 3 — —3253742 Cleveland11353333334 Cumbria 3 1 5 31211——3 Derbyshire21214232231 DevonandCornwall861562310456 Dorset 1113—36——22 Durham32—123—235— DyfedPowys—2—1—3——211 Essex 15921075—693 Gloucestershire 1 1 3 —3322—2— Greater Manchester 16 14 10 14 23 19 17 15 11 13 15 Gwent —11222—4122 Hampshire 1 3 5 5 7 10 37477 Hertfordshire21543445363 Humberside 2 2 2 23583176 Kent 738410644765 Lancashire 6 2 1 15 4 10 12 11 1 4 13 Leicestershire11—42493353 Lincolnshire — 1 2 —122——33 London: City of London — — — —————— 1— Metropolitan 62 52 68 69 68 68 61 62 57 70 78 Merseyside 8 11 6 14 3 12 10 14 10 10 9 Norfolk—5241—31133 NorthWales2—2124—5213 North Yorkshire 1 — 1 — — — 1 3 2 — — Northamptonshire 2 2 1 3351—664 Northumbria 11 5 9 5488671014 Nottinghamshire 3 6 5 46366773 South Wales 9 9 6 3 10 134275 South Yorkshire 2 3 4 46727638 Staffordshire442—1—33253 Suffolk ———32—22322 Surrey 111121143—3 Sussex 44556939433 Thames Valley 7 7 8 3 9 13 36786 Warwickshire — 2 1 —1223152 WestMercia33135253—31 West Midlands 4 16 15 9 19 17 22 21 22 15 15 West Yorkshire 12 12 7 8 11 13 7 13 11 12 13 Wiltshire 2 — 1 —3223112 Total 202 201 213 215 261 266 242 260 219 269 270 1 As at 4 November 2008; figures are revised as cases are dealt with by the police and by the courts, or as further information becomes available. 2 Includes knives as well as other sharp instruments. 3 Offences are shown according to the year in which the police initially recorded the offence as homicide. This is not necessarily the year in which the incident took place or the year in which any court decision was made.

Human Trafficking have been set up to act as decision making competent authorities within the multi-agency national referral Mr. Vara: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home mechanism. Department pursuant to the answer of 26 January 2009, Official Report, columns 94-5W, on human trafficking, Comprehensive guidance and training, utilising expertise what guidance has been issued by his Department to the from within and outside Government, has been provided agencies involved in the national referral mechanism on to these teams. Staff within these teams have been systematic identification of victims of human trafficking. instructed to engage with external agencies to assist in [277244] the identification process.

Mr. Alan Campbell: Specialist teams within the UK In addition, myself and the ACPO lead for human Human Trafficking Centre and the UK Border Agency trafficking wrote to all chief officers to direct them to 927W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 928W the Home Office website which holds information about Passport Service on 1 April 2006, projects to deliver the national referral mechanism: passports including facial images and fingerprints, identity http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice.gov.uk/human cards and other improvements have been necessarily trafficking005.htm combined. As much of the technology and operational All other relevant agencies have also been directed to processes needed to implement identity cards are also this information. required for the implementation of these new passports, this is the most cost-effective way to deliver these initiatives. Identity Cards Much of the work conducted by Identity and Passport Service cannot be categorised, both financially and Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the operationally, as contributing towards either the Home Department how many (a) fake and (b) introduction of passports with facial images and fingerprints fraudulently obtained national identity cards have been or identity cards alone. The work is accounted for as seized in each month since the introduction of the future development projects which in the 2006-07 financial national identity card scheme. [285940] year amounted to £30.9 million, in 2007-08 £61.7 million and 2008-9 £81.5 million (subject to finalisation of the Alan Johnson: As part of the NIS we began issuing 2008-09 accounts process). identity cards to foreign nationals on 25 November 2008. To date we have not identified or recovered any Identity Cards: Police cards found to be fake or to have been obtained fraudulently. Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what guidance his Department has Home Department how many national identity cards issued to police (a) forces and (b) officers on the use have been withdrawn, recalled or returned as a result of of identity cards in policing. [285942] errors in the data (a) displayed on the card and (b) contained on the chip since the introduction of the Alan Johnson: In addition to the general guidance scheme. [285941] published on the Identity Card for Foreign Nationals, the UK Border Agency has engaged with representatives Alan Johnson: Since November 2008, over 50,000 from police forces and produced guidance about the use identity cards have been issued to foreign nationals by of identity cards. This guidance is reviewed regularly the UK Border Agency. Of these, four cards have been and updates will be issued whenever necessary. withdrawn, recalled or returned as a result of errors in In respect of identity cards issued to British citizens, the data either displayed on the card or contained on the Identity and Passport Service has yet to produce the chip since the introduction of the scheme. any guidance on identity cards and will be producing guidance on the security features to be incorporated in Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the the identity cards issued to later this year. Home Department how many records checks have been made against the national identity card database by (a) police forces and (b) other agencies in each Illegal Immigrants month since the introduction of the national identity card scheme. [285943] Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department for what reasons the publication of Alan Johnson: The National Identity Register, which his Department’s report on Understanding the market will hold the identity information of everyone issued for facilitated illegal entry in the UK has been delayed; with a national identity card, will not begin operation and when he intends to publish it. [247896] until later this year when we start to issue voluntary ID cards to airside workers at Manchester and London city Alan Johnson [holding answer 20 January 2009]: The airports as well as to British citizens living in the Greater normal process for publishing research is that such Manchester area. reports must undergo a rigorous quality assurance process There have, therefore not yet been any checks made including external peer review and only research that on the National Identity Register. meets our high quality standards is published by the Department. Once this process has been completed in Identity Cards: Expenditure this case, we expect to be able to publish the report in summer 2009. Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much has been spent on the Immigrants: Social Security Benefits National Identity Card Scheme; and what proportion of this expenditure has been on identity cards alone. Mr. Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for the [279615] Home Department on what date the UK Border Agency or its predecessor informed Jobcentre Plus that Alan Johnson: The Identity Cards are paid for by Khadra Ali Hassan of Sheffield was no longer entitled customer fees. to income support and related benefits arising out of Between the financial years 2003-04 and 2005-06, her previous temporary leave to remain. [278876] £41.1 million was spent by the Home Office Identity Cards Programme in total in development. Since the Mr. Woolas [holding answer 10 June 2009]: My right merger of the Home Office Identity Cards Programme hon. Friend the Home Secretary wrote to my right hon. and the UK Passport Service to create the Identity and Friend on 15 July 2009. 929W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 930W

Immigration Mr. Woolas [holding answer 14 July 2009]: It is anticipated that the decision will be notified to Mrs. Kaur Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for the shortly. Home Department (1) how many people had awaited Immigration Controls: Abuse determination of their application for (a) leave to remain and (b) indefinite leave to remain under the Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the immigration rules for more than (i) one, (ii) two, (iii) Home Department how many organisations purporting three and (iv) four years; [250959] to be education and training providers have been closed (2) when he plans to answer question 250959, tabled for abuse of the immigration system in each of the last on 21 January 2009, on the timescale for processing five years. [279320] immigration cases. [286588] Alan Johnson: This information is not recorded centrally Mr. Woolas: The data you require is provided in the either by the UK Border Agency or the previous following table. Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 Immigration: Gurkhas Leave to remain Two years 3,767 4,077 8,127 2,627 1,904 Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Three years — — 1,103 2,713 1,031 Home Department what (a) legal status and (b) residency Four years — — — 1,487 1,119 rights Gurkhas who do not qualify to settle in the UK Five years ————1,253 but who are not subject to immediate deportation have. [273542] Indefinite leave Mr. Woolas: On 21 May 2009 the Home Secretary to remain announced a revised policy for former members of the Two years 1,441 3,081 2,623 4,523 2,740 Brigade of Gurkhas who had been discharged prior to 1 Three years — — 797 3,097 1,782 July 1997. Under the terms of this policy any former Four years — — — 1,440 1,551 Gurkha with more than four years’ service who had Five years ————1,194 been discharged from the Brigade of Gurkhas before 1 July 1997 would be eligible for settlement in the UK. The above data are not provided under the National All Gurkhas who meet the criteria and who wish to Statistics protocols. They have been derived from local settle in the United Kingdom will be eligible to do so management information and are therefore provisional unless there are particular reasons for excluding an and subject to change. individual from settlement, for example criminality. We Data for some of these periods is not available. This therefore cannot foresee circumstances in which ex Gurkhas is because there was a major change in our IT systems in the UK do not meet the criteria but are not subject to in 2002. Data on cases lodged in or before 2002 will immediate administrative removal or deportation. If therefore not be complete. This means we are unable to this unlikely situation did arise the legal status and supply reliable information on some of the cases you residency rights of the individual would be considered requested. The data could now be reliably gathered only on a case by case basis. by the examination of individual files for historic information and this could be achieved only at Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for the disproportionate cost to the organisation. Home Department what potentially analogous LTR and ILR outstanding applications are generally categories of immigrant his Department considered complex cases involving ECHR and those overstaying when formulating its policy on the rights of residence existing leave granted. of Gurkhas; and what elements of the Government’s policy on such rights of residence would apply to each We are improving migration workstreams, as new such category. [276908] processes are introduced with initial focus on clearing older cases, then improving overall throughput. Mr. Woolas: When formulating the policy on the settlement rights of former Gurkhas it was important Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Secretary of State for to find a package which met the needs of the Gurkhas, the Home Department when he plans to announce his which was affordable and was consistent with our broader decision on the application for a residence permit immigration policies. This included consideration of submitted by Mrs Tatiana Stebel-Nowakowska. the settlement rules for Commonwealth soldiers, the [284423] policies on other immigration categories that provide a route to settlement, the time limits on applications, Mr. Woolas: I wrote to my hon. Friend on 17 July dependants and the UK Government’s wider responsibilities 2009. under the Human Rights Act. Mr. Byers: To ask the Secretary of State for the Members: Correspondence Home Department pursuant to the answer of 18 May 2009, Official Report, column 1163W, on immigration, Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for whether the UK Border Agency has obtained the the Home Department when he plans to reply to the further information needed in order to be able to letter to him dated 5 January 2009 from the right hon. decide the immigration case of Mrs Mohinder Kaur. Member for Manchester, Gorton, with regard to [286710] Mr. Paul Cookson. [260327] 931W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 932W

Alan Johnson: The UK Border Agency is meeting Metropolitan Police: Volunteers with the Centre for Social Justice in September and a reply to my right hon. Friend’s letter will be sent out Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home shortly. Department how many volunteers have been (a) acting and (b) recruited as independent lay custody visitors in Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for the Metropolitan Police authority in each year since the Home Department when he plans to reply to the 2000. [286236] letter of 12 February 2009 from the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton, with regard to Ms K Mr. Hanson: The Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA) Billington. [266372] advises that prior to 2006, individual boroughs managed independent custody visiting in their areas and that Alan Johnson: I wrote to my right hon. Friend on 9 figures on recruitment are not centrally available. From July 2009. April 2007, the MPA took pan-London responsibility for management of custody visitor and visit information. Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for The authority has provided the following information: the Home Department (1) when he plans to reply to the As of December 2007 the MPA had 360 independent custody letter from the right hon. Member for Manchester, visitors of which 70 were new recruits during the year. Gorton of 25 February 2009, with regard to Mr. M As of December 2008 there were 401 independent custody Rashid; [269341] visitors of which 140 were new recruits during the year. (2) when he plans to reply to the letter of 25 February 2009 from the right hon. Member for Manchester, National Extremism Tactical Coordination Unit Gorton, on Mr. M Rashid. [271024] David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for the Alan Johnson: I wrote to my right hon. Friend on 9 Home Department how much funding was allocated to July 2009. the National Extremism Tactical Co-ordination Unit (NETCU) in each financial year since 2003-04; and Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for how many staff were employed by NETCU in each the Home Department when he plans to reply to the such year. [282011] letter dated 7 April 2009 from the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton with regard to Ms Yewande Mr. Hanson [holding answer 24 June 2009]: Funding Augustina Adeleke. [278840] to the National Extremism Tactical Co-ordination Unit is managed on behalf of the Home Office by the Association Alan Johnson: I wrote to my right hon. Friend on 15 of Chief Police Officers Terrorism and Allied Matters July 2009. (ACPO TAM). We do not disclose details of grants provided to individual units on security grounds. Nor Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for do we disclose details of the numbers of staff employed the Home Department when he plans to reply to the by individual units. letter to his predecessor of 18 May 2009 from the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton with regard to National Identity Scheme Mr. D Albubasinmwin. [283357] Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the Alan Johnson: I wrote to my right hon. Friend on 2 Home Department what contracts his Department has July 2009. signed for delivery of the National Identity Scheme to date; with which suppliers such contracts have been Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for entered into; and what the (a) monetary value and (b) the Home Department when he plans to reply to the expected duration of each such contract is. [281970] letter to his predecessor of 22 May 2009 from the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton with regard to Alan Johnson: The contracts that have been signed Fawzia Izat and Hilla Akhterzi. [284722] for delivery of the National Identity Service which is necessary for the introduction of biometric passports to Alan Johnson: I wrote to my right hon. Friend on 10 date are as follows: July 2009. Thales UK Ltd. Thales UK Ltd was awarded a contract in July 2008 for the Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for technology and process for early release of NIS which is worth the Home Department (1) when he plans to reply to the £18 million. It has been awarded for four years with four successive letter to his predecessor of 18 May 2009 from the right six month options to extend. hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton on Ms Sujla De La Rue Afrin Suma; [286794] De La Rue was selected in June 2009 as the preferred bidder for (2) when he plans to reply to the letter to his the Design and Production of next generation UK passport predecessor of 18 May 2009 from the right hon. books which is worth £400 million. The contract was signed on Member for Manchester, Gorton with regard to Ms 2 July, and has been awarded for a period of 10 years. Sajia Afrin Suma. [284726] CSC CSC was awarded a contract in April 2009 for the upgrade of Alan Johnson: I wrote to my right hon. Friend on IPS’s Application and Enrolment system which is worth £385 million. 10 July 2009. It has been awarded for a period of 10 years. 933W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 934W

IBM Improvement Agency spent on consultants in each of IBM was awarded a contract in May 2009 to operate the the last five years. [280341] biometric data base for passports and to support identity cards which is worth £265 million. It has been awarded for seven years Mr. Hanson: The National Policing Improvement with one three-year option to extend. Agency was established by statute on 1 April 2007. In addition, four existing contracts were amended to Data are only available for 2007-08 and 2008-09. support the initial rollout of identity cards. These include: NPIA consultancy spend was £71.4 million in 2007-08. secure mail delivery provider SMS for the passport book to The figure for 2008-09 is £57.2 million. extend delivery services; Teleperformance to include an option to provide support for the introduction of identity cards; National Policing Improvement Agency: Manpower 3M SPSL to include production and personalisation of the identity cards; and Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for the nCipher (now part of Thales) for specialist encryption equipment Home Department how many (a) directors, (b) senior was amended to adapt this equipment for the rollout to UK managers, (c) specialist and delivery managers and (d) nationals. executive support and administration staff there were As spend has been in relation to only one contract in each National Policing Improvement Agency office and has therefore been with only one supplier, this in each of the last five years. [279287] information is considered to be commercially sensitive. National Policing Improvement Agency: Consultants Mr. Hanson: The National Policing Improvement Agency was established by statute on 1 April 2007. Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for the Data for 2007-09 are given in the tables. Data prior to Home Department how much the National Policing this period are not available.

NPIA staff 1 April 2007 Executive support and Specialist and delivery Location administration staff managers Senior managers Directors Total

Birmingham — 25 — — 25 Bramshill 170 126 4 — 300 Carterton — 3 — — 3 Harperley Hall 20 25 — — 45 Harrogate 121 56 1 — 178 Hendon Data Centre 97 52 1 — 150 Hendon NCALT 21 25 — — 46 London New King’s 114 451 2 — 567 Beam House London Victoria St 18 128 3 5 154 Ryton3713——50 Wyboston 74 115 1 — 190 Total 672 1,019 12 5 1,708

1 April 2008 Executive support and Specialist and delivery Location administration staff managers Senior managers Directors Total

Birmingham 6 22 — — 28 Bramshill 173 128 1 — 302 Carterton — 3 — — 3 Harperley Hall 25 31 — — 56 Harrogate 126 69 1 — 196 Hendon Data Centre 94 60 1 — 155 Hendon NCALT 30 15 — — 45 London New King’s 112 374 9 — 495 Beam House London Victoria St 43 173 4 5 225 Marsham Street 3 22 — 25 Ryton3814——52 Wyboston 73 115 3 — 191 Total 723 1,026 19 5 1,773

1 April 2009 Executive support and Specialist and delivery Location administration staff Manager Senior managers Director Total

Birmingham 9 21 — — 30 Bramshill 190 160 3 — 353 Carterton — 8 — — 8 935W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 936W

1 April 2009 Executive support and Specialist and delivery Location administration staff Manager Senior managers Director Total

Harperley Hall 24 36 — — 60 Harrogate 134 79 1 — 214 Hendon Data Centre 93 63 1 — 157 Hendon NCALT 32 17 1 — 50 London New King’s 143 403 9 — 555 Beam House London Victoria St 69 204 16 5 294 Marsham Street 4 20 — — 24 Ryton5051——101 Salisbury 1 19 — — 20 Wyboston 66 119 3 — 188 Grand total 815 1,200 34 5 2,054 Note: The definitions used in response to this question are as follows: Directors—CEO and chief officers. Senior managers—NPIA Grades 4A - 4B. Specialist and delivery managers—NPIA Grades 2B - 3B. Executive support and administration staff—All other grades.

National Public Order Intelligence Unit Offences Against Children

David Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much his Department has allocated to the National Public Order Intelligence Bob Spink: To ask the Secretary of State for the Unit in each year since its establishment; and how Home Department how many police cautions were many staff the unit employed in each such year. given for the (a) possession of and (b) creation of pornographic images of children in each of the last 10 [284134] years; and if he will make a statement. [282745] Mr. Hanson: The Home Office does not provide funding directly to the National Public Order Intelligence Unit. Funding is provided by top-slice of the police Mr. Alan Campbell [holding answer 29 June 2009]: grant and a contribution from the Metropolitan Police Information provided by the Ministry of Justice showing Service. the number of offenders cautioned for the possession, We do not disclose details of grants provided to taking, distributing or publishing of indecent photographs individual units on security grounds. Nor do we disclose or pseudo photographs of children in England and details of the numbers of staff employed by individual Wales, from 1998 to 2007 can be viewed in the following units. table.

Number of offenders cautioned1 for possessing, taking, distributing or publishing indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of children, in England and Wales, 1998 to 20072, 3 Offence Statute 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007

Possession of an Criminal Justice Act 19 34 25 32 53 205 162 151 147 142 indecent 1988 Sec. 160 as photograph or amended by the pseudo- criminal Justice and photograph3 Court Services Act 2000, and Criminal Justice Act 1988 Sec 160 as amended by the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, Secs.84(4) and 86(1)

Take, permit to Protection of 26 31 35 38 63 239 201 195 168 185 be taken, or to Children Act 1978 make distribute Section 1 as or publish amended by indecent Criminal Justice and photographs or Public Order Act pseudo- 1994, Sec 84 and photographs of Criminal Justice and children Court Services Act 2000 S.41(1).

1 From 1 June 2000 the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 came into force nationally and removed the use of cautions for persons under 18 and replaced them with reprimands and warnings. These figures have been included in the totals. 2 The cautions statistics relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been cautioned for two or more offences at the same time the principal offence is the more serious offence. 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Source: Evidence & Analysis Unit—Office for Criminal Justice Reform 937W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 938W

Offenders: Foreigners Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many fraudulent passport Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the applications were detected in each year since 1997; and Home Department how many foreign national how many instances of passport fraud his Department prisoners were on bail on 28 February 2009. [263214] estimates were undetected in each such year. [285925] Mr. Woolas: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the letter of 7 July 2009 from the Chief Executive of the UK Alan Johnson: The Identity and Passport Service Border Agency to the Home Affairs Select Committee (IPS) figures for passport frauds detected in each year which is available in the House Library. since 1997 are shown in table 1: Office of Cyber Security: Cyber Security Operations Table 1 Centre Number 19971 1,880 Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for the 19981 1,368 Home Department what the (a) budget and (b) 19991 1,535 number of staff of the (i) Office of Cyber Security and 1 (ii) Cyber Security Operations Centre in Cheltenham is January to March 2000 362 2000-01 1,484 in 2009-10; and if he will make a statement. [286486] 2001-02 2,419 Mr. Hanson: The Office of Cyber Security (OCS) will 2002-03 1,973 be established in September 2009 to provide strategic 2003-04 2,651 leadership for and coherence across Government, and 2004-05 1,497 to establish a cross-Government programme to address 2005-06 6,497 priority areas in pursuit of the UK’s strategic cyber 2006-07 6,108 security objectives. The exact staffing and budgetary 2007-08 9,382 arrangements are currently being determined. 2008-09 9,254 The Cyber Security Operations Centre (CSOC) will 1 Calendar years were used until April 2000 be established at the same time to bring together existing multi-agency efforts to provide situational awareness, The estimated number of fraudulent passport analysis and incident response co-ordination in the applications which go undetected, for years in which cyber security field, making sure that new and existing figures are available, is set out in table 2 resources are used to best effect in the areas where they Table 2 are needed the most. The exact staffing and budgetary Estimated arrangements are currently being determined. proportion of fraudulent The additional resources for the Government’s overall applications Estimated number of cyber security programme will be reported to the House (percentage)1 undetected frauds1 in the autumn. 1997 — — Official Residences 1998 — — Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State 1999 — — for the Home Department how much has been paid to January to March —— 2000 Westminster City Council in council tax on the empty property of 62 South Eaton Place in each month since 2000-01 — — the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside vacated 2001-20 - — 2002-20 0.09 2,974 the Ministerial residence there. [273466] 2003-20 — — Mr. Woolas: The following annual council tax payments 2004-20 — — have been made: 2005-20 0.25 10,058 2006-20 0.25 9,672 £ 2007-20 0.25 5,372 2008-20 0.26 4,410 2006-07 1,271 1 Figures do not include cases in which a false declaration has been 2007-08 825 made by a passport applicant but identity and eligibility for a 2008-09 824 passport are not in doubt. Discount for empty property was claimed for 2007-08 The process IPS uses to estimate the number of and 2008-09. fraudulent applications it receives is based on sampling Passports: Fraud and statistical extrapolation. The estimate of the number of fraudulent applications Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the which evade IPS controls is derived from a simple Home Department how many biometric passports issued arithmetical calculation in which the number of frauds to applicants had subsequently been withdrawn on the identified and prevented is deducted from the estimated basis of (a) fraud and (b) ineligibility of the applicant number of fraudulent applications received. on the latest date for which figures are available. [276828] IPS first conducted an exercise to establish an estimate Alan Johnson: In terms of fraud recording, the Identity of the number of fraudulent applications in 2002 and and Passport Service does not yet differentiate between details of its findings were made available to Parliament biometric and non-biometric passports. in response to questions. 939W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 940W

In 2006 IPS introduced a more refined and robust first-time passport applicants have been interviewed in sampling process drawing on the experience of 2002 each month since the interview system was established. and its increased understanding of the nature and pattern [285794] of fraud. This increased understanding of the nature and pattern of fraud has also enabled IPS to refine the way it records fraud and to identify fraudulent applications which had been stopped by routine controls but which Alan Johnson: The proportion of first time adult had not been previously recorded as fraud. passport applicants who have received passports and who had been interviewed in each month since the Passports: Interviews interview system was established in 2007 is approximately 90 per cent. Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many and what proportion of See following table:

Total first time adult interviews Percentage of first time adults being conducted Total first time adult passports issued interviewed

October 2007 2,259 26,132 9 November 2007 5,207 25,778 20 December 2007 9,031 17,293 52 January 2008 10,373 16,680 62 February 2008 23,537 25,660 92 March 2008 32,054 36605 88 April 2008 29,979 32,405 93 May 2008 31,341 34,253 91 June 2008 40,348 43,624 92 July 2008 26,606 29,974 89 August 2008 30,187 33,633 90 September 2008 19,765 21,815 91 October 2008 16,022 18,539 86 November 2008 19,533 21,798 90 December 2008 12,794 15,190 84 January 2009 13,947 14,165 98 February 2009 20,821 22,587 92 March 2009 31,466 33,928 93 April 2009 24,210 25,607 95 May 2009 30,818 33,220 93 June 2009 18,955 19,948 95 Total 432,756 479,631 90

Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the Identity and Passport Service. The costs for each passport Home Department what the (a) staffing and (b) other interview centre in each month since the Interview costs have been of each passport interview centre in Office Network was established in July 2007 are as each month since such centres were established. follows. This excludes the cost of depreciation of relevant [285795] set-up capital expenditure.

Alan Johnson: Personal passport interviews are conducted through the Interview Office Network (ION) of the

£ ION offices Salaries Other costs Grand total

Bord—Berwick Upon Tweed 59,747 122,546 182,293 Bord—Carlisle 115,001 203,128 318,128 Bord—Dumfries 90,617 105,282 195,899 Bord—Kendal 137,581 187,828 325,409 Bord—Middlesbrough 409,061 321,856 730,917 Bord—Newcastle 587,257 523,989 1,111,246 Bord—Ripon 64,942 198,496 263,438 Bord—Selkirk 72,000 176,856 248,856 EA—Bury St. Edmunds 180,286 248,683 428,968 EA—Ipswich 242,738 188,490 431,229 EA—Kings Lynn 125,759 134,987 260,746 EA—Lincoln 238,066 157,630 395,696 EA—Norwich 230,731 235,137 465,868 EA—Peterborough 299,374 268,450 567,824 941W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 942W

£ ION offices Salaries Other costs Grand total

EA—Sleaford 103,976 131,872 235,848 ION OCM 18,173 3,305 21,478 ION—London 2,899,409 2,701,859 5,601,268 Mid—Birmingham 978,036 856,481 1,834,517 Mid—Derby 386,105 332,456 718,561 Mid—Leicester 246,616 268,496 515,112 Mid—Northampton 276,071 201,374 477,445 Mid—Shrewsbury 153,135 199,285 352,421 Mid—Stoke on Trent 288,878 240,756 529,634 Mid—Warwick 186,919 278,675 465,594 NE—Kingston on Hull 316,364 247,123 563,487 NE—Leeds 709,077 683,933 1,393,009 NE—Scarborough 126,844 163,524 290,368 NE—Sheffield 490,466 459,699 950,165 NE—York 160,201 236,692 396,894 NI—Armagh 110,837 172,605 283,442 NI—Belfast 345,431 327,623 673,054 NI—Coleraine 164,870 167,705 332,575 NI—Omagh 94,250 181,608 275,858 NW—Blackburn 354,964 302,737 657,701 NW—Liverpool 599,110 464,368 1,063,478 NW—Manchester 778,474 760,049 1,538,523 NW—Wrexham 244,748 282,252 527,000 S&MW—Aberystwyth 58,909 175,295 234,204 S&MW—Bristol 309,855 334,575 644,430 S&MW—Cheltenham 225,900 179,898 405,798 S&MW—Newport 498,625 326,819 825,444 S&MW—Swansea 342,703 290,512 633,215 S&MW—Swindon 138,924 186,558 325,482 Scot—Aberdeen 177,027 197,619 374,646 Scot—Dundee 176,718 186,248 362,966 Scot—Edinburgh 332,671 416,442 749,113 Scot—Glasgow 755,413 617,049 1,372,462 Scot—Inverness 138,573 166,992 305,565 Scot—Kilmarnock 33,836 2,301 36,138 Scot—Oban 20,879 191,043 211,922 Scot—Stirling 165,169 223,285 388,454 Scot—Wick 49,128 101,084 150,212 SE—Brighton 185,115 187,242 372,356 SE—Chelmsford 314,816 441,675 756,491 SE—Crawley 276,306 282,550 558,856 SE—Dover 190,309 222,295 412,604 SE—Luton 405,133 396,002 801,136 SE—Maidstone 275,478 212,565 488,043 Sth—Andover 209,256 172,151 381,407 Sth—Bournemouth 225,140 206,443 431,582 Sth—Newport (IOW) 102,229 170,241 272,470 Sth—Oxford 155,208 241,728 396,936 Sth—Portsmouth 440,517 424,074 864,591 Sth—Reading 359,911 574,926 934,837 SW—Exeter 243,638 177,275 420,913 SW—Plymouth 215,470 280,709 496,179 SW—Redruth 125,996 118,822 244,818 SW—South Molton 114,620 176,986 291,606 SW—St. Austell 169,271 133,070 302,341 SW—Yeovil 170,115 192,120 362,235 Total costs 20,488,970 20,944,430 41,433,399

Police police force (a) on front-line duties and (b) in completing (i) all administrative, (ii) incident-related administrative and (iii) stop and search forms in the Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the latest period for which figures are available; [286930] Home Department (1) what estimate he has made of the proportion of time spent by police officers in each 943W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 944W

(2) what estimate he has made of the proportion of Table B: Frontline activity by force 2007-98 the working day spent by police officers, (a) on front-line Force Frontline policing measure (percentage) duties and (b) in completing (i) all administrative forms North Yorkshire 63.2 and (ii) stop and search forms in the latest period for Northamptonshire 64.7 which figures are available. [286931] Northumbria 71.2 Mr. Hanson: Figures for all forces for front-line policing Nottinghamshire 72.1 and for paperwork at a national level are given in the South Wales 62.5 following tables. Figures for paperwork for individual South Yorkshire 70.0 forces should be sought from those forces, as it is not Staffordshire n/a possible for the Home Office to release them without Suffolk 67.4 incurring disproportionate cost. The Home Office does Surrey 64.6 not collect data on time spent on stop and search Sussex 60.0 routinely, but we estimate that hand written completion Thames Valley 62.5 of stop and search forms on the street takes on average Warwickshire 65.5 three to seven minutes. The time spent on completing West Mercia 64.4 the form depends on the circumstances of the individual West Midlands 65.6 stop. West Yorkshire 68.5 Figures are not available on a force by force basis. Wiltshire 67.2 Table A: Paperwork and frontline activity for all officers 2007-081,2 Percentage Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what methodology his Department Time spent on incident-related 12.4 paperwork uses to collate figures on the amount of time spent by Time spent on non incident-related 9.3 police officers on administrative tasks; and who in his paperwork Department has responsibility for the collection of Total time spent on paperwork 21.7 such figures. [286932] Time spent on patrol3 13.8 Frontline policing measure4 64.9 Mr. Hanson: The frontline policing measure and other 1 The information is taken from activity analysis, which is collected measures of time spent on patrol and paperwork have by all forces over a two-week period in each year and provides a been discontinued as part of the Government’s commitment snapshot of how officers are deployed. to reduce the burden on police forces imposed by statistical 2 Excluding Staffordshire. and other data. This will allow police officers to concentrate 3 Includes officers on foot/car/beat patrol, CID and traffic officers. 4 The frontline policing measure includes activities other than those their efforts on fighting crime and being more visible. shown in the table such as dealing with crimes and non-crime The decision to discontinue the measure is based on incidents. the maturing relationship which exists between the police Table B: Frontline activity by force 2007-98 service and the Home Office around performance Force Frontline policing measure (percentage) management. Over time a performance management Avon and Somerset 58.9 culture has been embedded, and following the success Bedfordshire 67.6 that forces have had in reducing crime and the move to Cambridgeshire 64.3 one centrally set target around public confidence, we believe that this approach is the right one. Cheshire 63.9 City of London 67.8 Cleveland 60.8 Police Community Support Officers: Lancashire Cumbria 62.3 Derbyshire 71.2 Devon and Cornwall 61.3 Geraldine Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for the Dorset 71.4 Home Department how many police community Durham 57.3 support officers are employed in Lancashire. [287837] Dyfed-Powys 61.9 Essex 64.3 Mr. Hanson: There were 400 police community support Gloucestershire 69.2 officers in Lancashire constabulary as at 30 September Greater Manchester 58.8 2008. This figure is calculated on a full-time equivalent Gwent 70.9 basis. Hampshire 66.1 This and other related data are published annually as Hertfordshire 66.8 part of the annual Police Service Strength Home Office Humberside 64.9 Statistical Bulletin. The latest bulletin can be found at: Kent 68.1 http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/policeorg1.html Lancashire 63.0 and bulletins for this and previous years are deposited Leicestershire 64.5 in the Library of the House. Lincolnshire 63.4 Merseyside 63.0 Annual 30 September figures are provided as interim Metropolitan Police 65.1 figures to the more detailed 31 March figures which can Norfolk 68.2 also be found at the above link. 31 March 2009 figures North Wales 63.8 are due to be published on 23 July 2009 on the same webpage. 945W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 946W

Police: Cybercrime Refugees: Iraq

Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for the for the Home Department when he expects the regional Home Department how many of the 28,000 Iraqi police squads established to tackle cyber crime to be refugees in Syria submitted by the UN for resettlement operational; and what (a) budget and (b) personnel since 2007 have been accepted by the UK. [279640] will be provided for those squads. [286944] Mr. Woolas: I wrote to my hon. Friend on 17 July Mr. Hanson: The work of the ACPO e-crime Committee 2009. includes a project to set up regional cyber crime teams. Chief constables have a budget which they are able to Serious and Organised Crime Agency use on the priorities for their forces. Any decision on funding or staffing for regional teams is a matter for the Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the chief constables for that region. Home Department on how many occasions the Serious and Organised Crime Agency has provided Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State information to support prosecutions in each of the last for the Home Department what mechanisms are in 24 months. [285946] place to co-ordinate the work of police forces in reducing levels of cybercrime. [286943] Alan Johnson: The information is not readily available and could be recovered only at disproportionate cost. Mr. Hanson: The Government have provided £3.5 million over three years to support the work of the Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the police central e-crime unit (PCeU). One of the roles Home Department how many staff from the Serious that the PCeU has been given is to develop the response and Organised Crime Agency provided evidence in to e-crime across the police service. The co-ordination person or in writing during trials in each of the last 24 of that work is a matter for the police and for ACPO. months. [285947]

Police: Training Alan Johnson: The information is not readily available and could be recovered only at disproportionate cost. Mrs. May: To ask the Secretary of State for the Serious Crime Prevention Orders: Antisocial Behaviour Home Department pursuant to the answer of 19 Orders November 2008, Official Report, column 602W, on police training, what progress the National Police Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Improvement Agency has made in refreshing its Home Department (1) how many (a) serious crime training modules on domestic abuse to include (a) prevention orders and (b) antisocial behaviour orders female genital mutilation, (b) stalking and harassment have been issued in England and Wales since their and (c) honour-based violence. [283731] introduction; [284645] Mr. Alan Campbell: The National Policing Improvement (2) how many antisocial behaviour orders are in force Agency has reviewed the existing training materials for in England and Wales. [284646] domestic abuse and has begun developing a new learning programme. Part 1 of this training relates to risk Mr. Alan Campbell: Antisocial behaviour orders (ASBOs) identification, assessment and management which will became available from 1 April 1999. The number of be available from end July 2009. ASBOs issued at all courts in England and Wales between 1 April 1999 and 31 December 2007 (latest available) Further training material is to be launched in Q3 was 14,972. 2009 and will include general awareness training for all police officers and staff and specialist training for all ASBOs can be of a fixed duration (minimum two experienced specialist domestic abuse officers and all years) or made until further order. It is therefore not investigators. possible to determine from centrally collected data how many ASBOs are in force at a particular point in time. All of the new training materials incorporate (a) female genital mutilation, (b) stalking and harassment Serious crime prevention orders became available on and (c) honour-based violence. 6 April 2009. Up to 31 May 2009 the Serious Organised Crime Agency had secured 19 such orders and we understand that three further orders had been secured Prisoners Release: Foreigners by other law enforcement authorities.

Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for the Serious Organised Crime Agency: Travel Home Department how many people are unlawfully at large having been removed from prison to an Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for the immigration removal centre and subsequently released Home Department how much was spent on travel and into the community. [278329] accommodation by the Serious and Organised Crime Agency in each of the last three years. [278441] Mr. Woolas: The UK Border Agency and its partners are currently pursuing for the deportation of 64 individuals Alan Johnson: The Serious Organised Crime Agency’s who breached the conditions of the parole license and expenditure on all its travel and accommodation in the have not yet been recalled. UK and overseas for each of the last three years was: 947W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 948W

UK Border Agency: Correspondence £ 2006-07 18,189,370.31 Mr. Mullin: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2007-08 16,778,991.09 Home Department if he will require the Chief Executive 2008-09 18,574,892.35 of the UK Border Agency (UKBA) to report on when a response will be sent to the hon. Member for Sunderland These costs were incurred necessarily in the delivery South’s letter of 24 April 2009, regarding his constituent, of the agency’s functions. During the three years 2006-07 Mrs Louise Chambers, Home Office reference U1062508; to 2008-09, SOCA had approximately 4,000 members and for what reasons no response to the correspondence of staff of whom approximately 140 were based overseas. has been provided to the hon. Member through the hon. Members’ hotline. [282896]

Terrorism: Arrests Mr. Woolas: The Deputy Director, Operations, of the London and South East Region wrote on 26 June regarding Mrs. Umber’s application. The MP’s Hotline Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for the was unavailable for technical reasons which have now Home Department how many people arrested under been addressed. the Terrorism Act 2006 have subsequently been deported. [272197] UK Border Agency: Manpower

Mr. Woolas [holding answer 1 May 2009]: None. Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the There is no power of arrest under the Terrorism Act Home Department how many foreign nationals are 2006. Any arrest for terrorism offences would be under employed by the UK Border Agency. [282994] either the Terrorism Act 2000 or other legislation. Details of the number of arrests for terrorism offences Mr. Woolas: All candidates are subject to the same between 11 September 2001 and 31 March 2008 are pre-appointment checks regardless of nationality. Our contained in the Home Office Statistical Bulletin: pre-appointment checks ensure that we only select those that pass eligibility in accordance with the Cabinet “Statistics on Terrorism Arrests and Outcomes Great Britain Office nationality requirements: 11 September 2001 to 31 March 2008” at: http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/jobs/Nationality-Requirements/ http://www. homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs09/hosb0409.pdf Nationality-Requirements.aspx Details of the numbers of people arrested for a terrorism offence who have subsequently been deported UK Border Agency: Passports are not available. Chris Huhne: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what estimate he has made of the Travel Restrictions average time taken by the UK Border Agency and its predecessors to check a passport at each (a) airport and (b) port in each of the last 10 years. [285793] Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department pursuant to the answer of 17 June 2009, Alan Johnson: The time taken to check a passport at Official Report, column 321W, on travel restrictions, each port is not routinely recorded. what the outcome of the discussions on the Government’s All new passports issued within the EU and in many policy on exclusion with US officials was. [281930] countries across the world are now chip enabled and current policy is to scan 100 per cent. of passports at Mr. Woolas [holding answer 25 June 2009]: Following border control. The embedded chips from different the bi-lateral meeting between UK and US officials, countries have different reading rates, varying from UK officials agreed in principle to provide further three to 15 seconds depending on the detail of information information to their US counterparts about the operation stored on the chip. of the Government’s policy on exclusion in the event of Thereafter, the further checks made by border force future inquiries. officers will depend on a range of other factors as the passenger presents themselves at the desk, including Mr. Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home eligibility for entry to the UK, prior concerns as flagged Department pursuant to the answer of 17 June 2009, by e-borders, suspicious behaviour or unusual circumstances Official Report, column 321W, on travel restrictions, and alerts from other law enforcement agencies. whether he received any representations from US officials New automated iris recognition gate arrangements, about the inclusion on the list of foreign nationals now rolling out to a further eight arrivals halls over the barred from entry to the UK of (a) Michael Savage and next two months will further reduce queuing and speed (b) any other US citizen. [282340] the passenger flow. Alongside our ACS trials, UKBA are already facilitating Mr. Woolas [holding answer 29 June 2009]: A bi-lateral the journey of other legitimate passengers through our meeting was held between UK and US officials following Iris Recognition Immigration System (IRIS). IRIS combines the publication of the list on 5 May 2009 to discuss the speed and maximum security to let positively vetted Government’s policy on exclusion on the grounds passengers travel faster. The scheme was launched in of unacceptable behaviour. Officials set out the background January 2006 and is available at 10 airport terminals to the policy and Michael Savage’s inclusion on the list. throughout the UK. 949W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 950W

UK Border Agency: Training The Cabinet Office currently provides the lead for policy on cyber security and has, supported by Damian Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the representatives from across Government, continued to Home Department how many UK Border Agency staff engage closely with the US administration during the have been on training courses abroad in each country development of the UK’s recently published Cyber in each of the last five years. [282946] Security Strategy which, in addition to other key areas, addresses the importance of cyber attack prevention. Mr. Woolas: Data are not collected centrally on the As the strategy explains, the security of cyber space is a number of UK Border Agency staff who have attended transnational issue and, as such, working with international training courses abroad in the last five years, and could partners, including the US, is essential to achieving the be only provided at disproportionate cost. UK’s strategic cyber security objectives. Cyprus: Land

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for ForeignandCommonwealthAffairswhatrecentrepresentations Arabic Language he has made to the Cypriot government on the effects on British citizens of title deed trap fraud perpetrated in Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for Cyprus. [286965] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is taking to increase the number of Arabic speakers in his Chris Bryant: Our high commissioner in Nicosia has Department. [287013] made a number of representations to the Cypriot authorities to make clear our concerns, most recently on 27 April Chris Bryant: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office 2009. We have been assured that the Cyprus Government (FCO) places a great deal of importance on improving will introduce legislation to speed up the issuing of title the language skills for its staff. It currently has over 40 deeds. Our high commission in Cyprus will remain active Arabic speaker slots (jobs with an operational engaged in supporting British citizens on this issue and language requirement). The number of these jobs, and regularly meets with action groups formed by British level of language proficiency necessary, are regularly nationals such as the Cypriot Property Action Group to reviewed in the light of requirements. listen to their concerns. Arrangements for the issuing of title deeds are a matter of national competence. However, The FCO offers a mix of full-time and part-time we will continue to make our concerns clear to the language training, in-country training, and on-the-job authorities. training to officers selected for these jobs. In addition, it assesses the level of Arabic language proficiency of the Deen International jobholders, through exams accredited to the Chartered Institute of Linguists. Mr. Holloway: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the Australia: Diplomatic Service answer to Baroness Warsi of 2 June 2009, House of Lords, Official Report, column WA70,on Deen International, Kate Hoey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign when he expects the University of Islamabad to publish and Commonwealth Affairs what criteria in respect of its independent report; when he expects the evaluation fair and open competition apply to appointments to reports commissioned by his Department in (a) Islamabad the post of High Commissioner to Australia; and on and (b) London to be completed; and if he will place in how many occasions an appointment to this post has the Library copies of any of these reports which have been made through open competition within the already been completed. [287728] Diplomatic Service in the last 10 years. [287400] Mr. Ivan Lewis: “I am Muslim I am British”, a Chris Bryant: No one has been appointed as high project conducted by Deen International with Foreign commissioner to Australia through Diplomatic Service and Commonwealth Office (FCO) funding, concluded open competition for the last 10 years. as scheduled on 2 May 2009. FCO guidance requires High commissioners can be appointed either through evaluation reports to be completed within three months the civil service recruitment process or by Diplomatic of the end of project delivery.The university of Islamabad’s Service Order in Council. evaluation, which is based on over 600 detailed interviews, is currently being finalised and is due to be shortly Cybercrime signed off by the head researcher. The further evaluations in London and Islamabad will be informed by the Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State university’s detailed report. for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent The evaluations are internal FCO documents and we discussions he has had with his US counterpart on have no plans to place them in the Library of the cyber security; and what assessment he has made of the House. merits of taking steps in co-operation with the US administration to prevent cyber attacks. [286948] Departmental Contracts

Mr. Ivan Lewis: There have been no recent discussions Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for between my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what (a) institutions and his US counterpart on cyber security. supported by the Higher Education Funding Councils 951W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 952W and (b) other organisations and bodies have been awarded Chris Bryant: It is not in the interests of the UK’s contracts by his Department’s (i) research analysts and national security for Departments to confirm information (ii) policy planning staff in each financial year since on the number of attempts, successful or otherwise, to 2003. [282666] gain unauthorised access to departmental systems or databases. Such disclosure could undermine the integrity Chris Bryant: The following institutions supported and security of departmental systems and thereby expose by the Higher Education Funding Councils have been them to potential threats. awarded contracts by Research Analysts since 2003: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office complies Institute for the Study of the Americas (University of London) with the mandatory requirements of the Security Policy Oxford University Framework in relation to information security including Dundee University managing the risk of unauthorised access to information London School of Economics and communications technology systems. African Studies Centre Departmental Internet No contracts were awarded by Strategy Unit (formerly Policy Planners) to institutions supported by the Higher Education Funding Councils in financial year 2008-09 Mr. Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for (the only year for which figures are available for Strategy Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the Unit in its current form). answer of 9 July 2009, Official Report, column 947W, on departmental internet, which web browser his The following organisations or bodies were awarded Department has chosen to replace Internet Explorer 6; contracts for services by Research Analysts in the years what proportion of computers in his Department have from 2003 (contracts for the supply of goods such as been updated; and when he expects the update process office equipment are not included): to be completed. [287023] Chatham House Communicaid Chris Bryant: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office Economic and Social Research Council is updating its web browsers to Internet Explorer 7 as Factiva part of the deployment of its replacement desktop Henry L. Stimson centre infrastructure. By the end of June 2009, some 57 per Iraq Institute for Strategic Studies cent. of its networked computers had been updated. Completion is scheduled for the end of May 2010. Linguarama Rainbow Departmental Manpower Royal African Society World Language Consultants Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign The following organisations or bodies were awarded and Commonwealth Affairs what percentage of employees contracts for services (contracts for the supply of goods in his Department are (a) women and (b) men; and such as office equipment are not included) by the Strategy what the average hourly pay of his Department’s (i) Unit (formerly Policy Planners) in financial year 2008-09 male employees and (ii) female employees was in the (the only year for which figures are available for Strategy latest period for which figures are available. [287122] Unit in its current form): National School for Government Chris Bryant: As at 1 July 2009, 41 per cent. of the Overseas Development Institute current Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) International Institute for Strategic Studies workforce is female and 59 per cent. is male. European School for Governance The average hourly rate of basic pay for male staff in the FCO is £20.56 and for female staff £20.11. PA Consulting Group These figures are for basic salary only and are taken Ashridge Consulting from the last Equal Pay Audit conducted in the autumn Wilton Park Executive Agency of 2007. The executive summary of the audit highlighted: Happy Computers “that average basic salaries for each grade when compared on RUSI Trading Ltd. the grounds of gender, ethnicity and disability are within the Libra Advisory Group 5 per cent. tolerance set out by the EOC (Equal Opportunities Commission)” Mary-Louise Clark Associates Ltd. (now Equality and Human Rights Commission). Open Society Institute Barkers Departmental Publications Centre for Parliamentary Studies Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Data Protection Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what publications his Department has issued in the UK in the last Jenny Willott: To ask the Secretary of State for 12 months. [286243] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many successful attempts were made to gain unauthorised Chris Bryant: Details of our publications can be access to each (a) database and (b) ICT system run by found at: his Department in each year since 2006; and if he will http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-the-fco/publications/ make a statement. [286560] publications 953W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 954W

Diplomatic Service The Arab League has mandated Egypt to communicate with Hamas. We are in regular contact with both the Jo Swinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Arab League and Egypt. and Commonwealth Affairs how many diplomats in each British diplomatic mission overseas have been Human Rights accused by the authorities of the host country of committing a serious criminal offence in the period Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for 2004 to 2008, broken down by type of offence. [285106] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will hold discussions with the Association of Tour Operators on Chris Bryant [holding answer 8 July 2009]: Central introducing a traffic light system to classify foreign records show that no diplomats in any of our diplomatic tourist destinations as having good, fair or bad human missions overseas have been accused by the authorities rights records. [287012] of the host country of committing a serious criminal offence in the period 2004 to 2008. Mr. Ivan Lewis: Consular officials from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) are in regular contact EU Institutions: Manpower with travel industry professionals and associations on a range of issues. It is for individuals to decide where to Mr. Davey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign travel. We would encourage people to take such decisions and Commonwealth Affairs how many UK nationals on the basis of our travel advice and other publicly (a) applied for and (b) have been accepted for available information on their proposed destination. traineeships in the European Commission since March The FCO’s Annual Human Rights Report, published most recently on 26 March 2009, provides a comprehensive 1997. [270842] assessment of the human rights record of countries of concern around the world. David Miliband: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 5 May 2009, Official Report, column 44W. Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his most recent assessment is of the human rights situation in Foreigners: Honours relation to Christians in (a) North Korea, (b) Saudi Arabia, (c) Iraq, (d) Afghanistan and (e) Somalia; Mr. Holloway: To ask the Secretary of State for and what representations he has made on that situation Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs on whom (a) to the Government of each such country. [287019] honorary knighthood and (b) honorary citizenship has been conferred in each year since 1997. [287892] Mr. Ivan Lewis: We condemn all instances of violence and discrimination against individuals and groups because Chris Bryant: Recipients of honorary awards, including of their faith or belief, wherever they happen or whatever honorary knighthoods, have been published on the the religion of the individual or group concerned. Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) website since The Government continue to be extremely concerned 2007: about continuing reports of serious, widespread, and http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-the-fco/what-we-do/honours systematic human rights abuses in North Korea, including The UK awarded 167 honorary knighthoods between the suppression of religious freedoms. We raise these 1997 and 2006, of which 89 were awarded during State concerns with the North Korean authorities at every and Guest of Government visits. Full details have been appropriate opportunity, most recently in February 2009, placed in the Library of the House. urging them to engage with the international community, Honorary knighthoods in the Royal Victorian Order particularly the UN Special Rapporteur on North Korea have not been included as they are in the personal gift of Human Rights. They continue to refuse to engage on The Queen and are not, therefore, administered by the this issue. We are also working with non-governmental FCO. organisations, including Christian Solidarity Worldwide, as we prepare for the Universal Periodic Review (UPR) The UK does not confer honorary citizenships. of North Korea’s human rights record at the UN Human Rights Council in December 2009. Hamas The human rights situation in Saudi Arabia remains poor. We particularly oppose the lack of freedom of Mr. Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for expression and religion. Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is which does not allow the practice of other religions. We on meetings between representatives of the continue to urge the Saudis to respect freedom of religion Government and Hamas. [288495] and to honour article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. This is done at ministerial, ambassadorial Mr. Ivan Lewis: The UK position is clear: we do not and official level. believe it is productive to talk to Hamas directly. The In February 2009 the UN UPR reviewed human military wing of Hamas is proscribed in the UK as a rights in Saudi Arabia. The UK made a number of terrorist organisation: they fire rockets at innocent civilians recommendations. On 26 March 2009 the Foreign and and put ordinary Palestinians in harm’s way. We believe Commonwealth Office’s 2008 Annual Human Rights that to talk to Hamas directly at this time would simply report was launched by the Foreign Secretary. In the undermine those Palestinians who are committed to report we highlighted that “the public practice of any peace. religion other than Islam remains banned. Renouncing 955W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 956W religious belief in Islam is an offence punishable by Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Government remain deeply death”. Our embassy last raised Freedom of Expression concerned by the increasing use of capital punishment with the Saudi Government in Riyadh on 13 July 2009. in Iran, which has one of the highest per capita execution We will continue to lobby on this and other important rates in the world. We regularly make representations to issues. the Government of Iran, in our bilateral contacts and The security situation in Iraq shows continued signs through the EU, to express general concern about the of improvement, but violence does continue to affect use of the death penalty in Iran and to raise individual many people, including Christians. The UK continues execution cases. We have done so on at least 20 separate to encourage the Government of Iraq to protect all occasions in 2009. communities and to take tough action against those In an EU presidency statement dated 5 July 2009, we responsible for any acts of violence and intimidation strongly condemned the recent executions in Iran, in regardless of political, ethnic or religious affiliation. particular the execution of 20 persons on 4 July 2009, in Promoting human rights is integral to building a the city of Karaj. Alongside our EU partners we will stable democracy in Afghanistan. But after 30 years of continue to call on the Iranian authorities to abolish the conflict Afghanistan is starting from a low base. Poverty death penalty completely and, in the meantime, to and weak state institutions are big contributors to human establish a moratorium on executions as urged by UN rights violations. Conservative cultural values often General Assembly resolutions 62/149 and 63/168. exacerbate the severe hardships many still face. We condemn all instances where individuals, including Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Christians, are persecuted because of their faith or Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the belief and take every opportunity to urge Afghanistan answer of 7 July 2009, Official Report, column 628W,on to implement laws and practices which foster tolerance Iran: foreign relations, what his most recent assessment and mutual respect. This includes full implementation is of the human rights situation in Iran. [286616] of those norms laid out in the 1981 UN Declaration on the Elimination of all Forms of Intolerance and of Mr. Ivan Lewis: Iran’s human rights record has continued Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief. Our embassy to deteriorate throughout 2009. Even before the recent in Kabul continues to follow the human rights situation unrest we were particularly concerned by worrying signs on the ground closely and raise matters of concern with of growing pressure on anyone with foreign contacts, the Afghan Government. including numerous arrests on counts of espionage and threatening national security. We are also witnessing an We recognise that the human rights situation in Somalia increasing use of the death penalty, and the continued has been appalling for a very long time. The ongoing practice of juvenile executions. civil conflict has impacted adversely on all sections of society, but particularly on vulnerable ethnic and religious The violence and brutality we witnessed in response minorities including the small community of Christians. to peaceful protests following the elections only served We continue to urge the Transitional Federal Government to compound the genuine concerns long held by the to combat human rights abuses as an important component international community with regards to Iran’s human of the Djibouti Process to restore peace and stability to rights record. In the aftermath of the elections we are the country. We support the mandate of the UN concerned that large numbers of political opponents, Independent Expert on Human Rights in Somalia and students, journalists, lawyers and human rights defenders the work of human rights organisations to gather accurate have been arrested and remain in detention. We are information and evidence about the situation on the concerned about the conditions under which they are ground. being detained, and that they are being denied access to due legal process. Iran: Politics and Government We have repeatedly raised our concerns with the Iranian authorities regarding human rights violations Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for and will continue to do so. The Iranian Government Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent must heed strong calls from the international community discussions he has had with his US counterpart on the and its own people to live up to its freely undertaken political situation in Iran. [282305] human rights commitments by respecting basic human rights and democratic freedoms. Mr. Ivan Lewis: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Israel Secretary has spoken to Secretary Clinton by telephone since the Iranian elections on 12 June 2009. We continue Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign to stay in close contact with US officials. and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has made any The UK and US share concerns about the Iranian recent assessment of the economic relationship authorities’heavy handed response to post-election protests. between Israeli commercial and residential settlements. Both agree that it is for the Iranian people to decide [287151] their own government but that it is incumbent on the Iranian authorities to address the allegations of irregularities. Mr. Ivan Lewis: No such assessment has been made. Mrs. Curtis-Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State Israel: Imports for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer of 7 July 2009, Official Report, column Lynne Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign 628W, on Iran: foreign relations, what recent and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer of representations he has made to the Iranian government 8 July 2009, Official Report, column 856W, on Israel: on executions in Iran. [286615] imports, if he will place in the Library a copy of (a) the 957W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 958W draft voluntary guidance on origin labelling of produce Minister of State at the Department for Work and from the occupied Palestinian territories and (b) the Pensions, Angela Eagle, replied to the hon. Member’s minutes of the roundtable meeting with representatives letters on 17 June 2009. from food retailers and trading organisations. [287258] Ministerial Policy Advisers Jim Fitzpatrick: I have been asked to reply. DEFRA is working with other Departments, including Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, HM Revenue Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the and Customs, the Department for Business, Innovation answer of 6 July 2009, Official Report, column 548W, and Skills and the Food Standards Agency with the on Ministerial policy: advisers, what the names of the intention of carrying out a public consultation on the three members of his Department based in 10 labelling of produce from the Occupied Palestinian Downing Street are; what their job descriptions are; for Territories shortly. The draft voluntary guidance will be how long each has been posted there; and what advice available on DEFRA’s website. The details of the they provide to his Department while on secondment. roundtable meeting with food retailers and traders will [286242] not be disclosed, since to do so could harm the frankness and candour of internal discussion. Chris Bryant: Of the three advisers referred to in the previous answer, Simon McDonald has been officially Libya: Terrorism based at the Cabinet Office, rather than at No. 10, as Foreign Policy Adviser to my right hon. Friend the Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for Prime Minister, since 2007. Two other members of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) staff are answer to the hon. Member for Aylesbury of 13 based at No. 10 as foreign policy advisers. Tom Fletcher January 2009, Official Report, columns 545-6W, on since September 2007 and Nick Catsaras since July Libya: terrorism, whether the Prime Minister discussed 2008. with President Gaddafi the issue of compensation for FCO officials at No. 10 advising the Prime Minster UK victims of terrorism at their meeting on 9 July on foreign policy issues work very closely with officials 2009; and if he will make a statement. [287558] from the Department for International Development, the Ministry of Defence and the Foreign and Mr. Ivan Lewis: I am acutely aware of the pain caused Commonwealth Office. by Libya’s past actions and the victims of Irish Republican Army atrocities have the Government’s whole hearted Nuclear Weapons sympathy. The Government continue to monitor the Libyan Mr. Dai Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for position on this matter, and raised it in discussions with Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he received Libyan Ministers as recently as February 2009. The reports on the export of nuclear weapons technology, Libyans maintain their firm view that they consider the blueprints and fissionable material by the Kahuta matter closed. The Government therefore see no prospect Nuclear Research Institute in Pakistan to (a) Iran, (b) of a bilateral agreement on this matter and I therefore Libya, (c) North Korea and (d) Saudi Arabia; and did not raise this matter with the Libyan Leader. what steps he has taken in response to those reports. [286818] Mauritania: Diplomatic Relations Mr. Ivan Lewis: In 2003 reports suggested that AQ Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Khan, who headed the Kahuta Nuclear Research Institute, and Commonwealth Affairs what consideration the supplied technology that could be used to make nuclear Government has given to opening an embassy in weapons to some of the countries mentioned. There is Mauritania. [276200] no evidence that Khan provided technology to Saudi Arabia. The UK played a leading role in Libya’s Chris Bryant: We have no plans to open an embassy renunciation of weapons of mass destruction in December in Mauritania. 2003 and we support all the UN Security Council However, we do intend to deploy a diplomatic officer Resolutions in place with regards to Iran and the into Nouakchott later this year. The officer will be Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. remote working from, and responsible to, our embassy in Rabat. Pakistan: Armed Conflict

Members: Correspondence Mr. Drew: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign has had with his Pakistani counterpart on Pakistan’s and Commonwealth Affairs when the Minister for policies in the Swat Valley; and what steps he has taken Europe will reply to the letters of 16 April and 14 May to seek to establish peace in that area. [287548] from the hon. Member for Forest of Dean, regarding expatriates, reference FD7868. [287932] Mr. Ivan Lewis: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary discussed the situation in the Swat Valley on Chris Bryant: The hon. Members letters of 16 April his recent visit to Pakistan with a wide range of Government 2009 and 14 May 2009 are not for the Foreign and of Pakistan officials, including President Zardari and Commonwealth Office to answer. My hon. Friend the Prime Minister Gilani. 959W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 960W

The Foreign Secretary also discussed with the Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Government of Pakistan the need for military gains to and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports his be followed by reconstruction and development and Department has received of the terms and conditions commitment to a long-term political strategy for improving of employment of (a) Palestinian, (b) Israeli and (c) governance, justice and services and addressing the Thai workers employed on the Israeli settlements of the roots of militancy. occupied Palestinian territory. [287159] The UK is working bilaterally and with international partners through the Friends of Democratic Pakistan Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Department has not received to support the Government of Pakistan to deliver such such reports. a strategy. The UK, through the Department for Lynne Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign International Development, has given £22 million in and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer of 7 immediate humanitarian assistance for internally displaced July 2009, Official Report, column 632W,on Palestinians, people. We continue to lobby international partners to what response he has received from his Israeli counterpart increase their contributions. to his call for Israel to freeze settlement construction; Pakistan: Crimes of Violence and following the demolition of houses in East Jerusalem, if he will call for the suspension of the EU/Israel Association Lembit Öpik: To ask the Secretary of State for Agreement. [287259] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will hold Mr. Ivan Lewis: There is still the need for more discussions with his Pakistani counterpart on the movement from Israel, including a complete freeze in attack on Christians in Bahmani Wala on 30 June 2009; settlement construction, in line with Israel’s Roadmap and if he will make a statement. [287085] commitments. We will continue to make our position clear both publicly and privately. Mr. Ivan Lewis: We are concerned about reports that members of the Christian community in Bahmani Wala, On the second point, EU Foreign Ministers emphasised Pakistan have been attacked. The UK supports freedom on 15 June 2009 that an upgrade in the relationship of religion and condemns persecution because of faith must be set against the context of our shared interests or beliefs. Incidents such as the attack in Bahmani Wala and objectives, including progress on the middle east are an example of the sectarian violence and violent peace process. The EU proposed that the current plan extremism that feed the discrimination faced by religious should remain in place for the time being. minorities. Palestinians: Children With our EU partners, we regularly raise our concerns with the Government of Pakistan over the situation of Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign religious minorities in Pakistan and we will continue to and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has received do so. The most recent EU demarche in December 2008 recent reports of the use of child labour in the occupied called upon the Government of Pakistan to promote Palestinian territory. [287154] tolerance, and take measures to protect freedom of religion or belief. This demarche also called for the Mr. Ivan Lewis: We have received no such reports. reform of discriminatory legislation and urged the Minister for Minority Affairs to raise awareness about abuses Palestinians: Israel against minorities and to increase their political representation at all levels. Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Bilaterally, both in London and through our High and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment his Commission, officials regularly raise the treatment of Department has made of the working conditions of minorities with their Pakistani interlocutors and will Palestinians employed in the Israeli settlements in the continue to do so. My hon. Friend the former Parliamentary occupied Palestinian territory; and on what evidential Under Secretary of State, Gillian Merron, met Shahbaz basis the assessment was made. [287158] Bhatti, Pakistan’s Minister for Minority Affairs, during Mr. Ivan Lewis: We have made no such assessment. her visit to Pakistan in February 2009. She raised concerns about the difficulties faced by religious minorities Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign in Pakistan, and the misuse of blasphemy legislation. and Commonwealth Affairs what recent estimate he Palestinians has made of the number of businesses in Israeli settlements which export goods or produce to the UK which have been built on Palestinian private property. Dr. Starkey: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign [287162] and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has received recent reports of Palestinians working in Israeli Mr. Ivan Lewis: We have made no such assessment. settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory being subject to (a) restrictions on their involvement, (b) Ports: Non-Domestic Rates detention, (c) removal of their work permits, (d) the loss of land and (e) other forms of coercion by Israeli Mr. Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State soldiers. [287156] for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent representations his Department has received from Mr. Ivan Lewis: We follow closely the situation of French companies operating in Britain on business Palestinians across the West Bank, Gaza and East rates in relation to British ports. [284176] Jerusalem. But we have not received specific reports relating to Palestinians working in settlements. Ms Rosie Winterton: I have been asked to reply. 961W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 962W

We have received one representation from a British of the IDPs, reuniting unaccompanied children with registered company which is a subsidiary of a French their families and registration of the IDP population as company. a whole. We continue to encourage the Government of Sri Russia: Diplomatic Service Lanka to do everything possible to ensure the civilian nature of the camps and allow humanitarian agencies Sir John Stanley: To ask the Secretary of State for to operate effectively on the ground. I refer to the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many locally written ministerial statement by my hon. Friend the employed British embassy staff in Russia have Minister of State for International Development immunity from jurisdiction under Article 38.1 of the (Mr. Thomas) on 14 July 2009 Official Report, columns Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961. 12-13WS, which contains further information on the [287300] latest humanitarian situation in Sri Lanka.

Mr. Ivan Lewis: No locally employed members of Mr. Lidington: To ask the Secretary of State for staff at British diplomatic missions in the Russian Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has Federation have immunity under Article 38 (1) of the made representations to the UN Human Rights Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961. Council on a full investigation into alleged human rights abuses during the recent conflict in Sri Lanka. Sir John Stanley: To ask the Secretary of State for [287382] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment has been made of the merits of conferring diplomatic Mr. Ivan Lewis: During the UN Human Rights Council status on non-Diplomatic Service staff employed by Special Session on 26-27 May 2009, the UK made clear UK posts in the Russian Federation in accordance with our concerns about events in Sri Lanka during the the Diplomatic Service Regulations 2006. [287301] recent conflict. We believe it is important there should be an independent investigation into what happened Chris Bryant: Staff are appointed under article 7 of because the extent of civilian casualties during the the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Regulations 1961, conflict remains unclear. The UK and the EU did our according to the functions they perform at the mission. utmost to reach a consensual outcome at the Special In practice, the privileges and immunities staff enjoy Session and we are disappointed that the adopted resolution stem from the receiving state’s recognition that they did not address many of our concerns. have been appropriately classified, in line with their A copy of the UK’s full statement can be found here: functions. http://ukungeneva.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/pdfl/hrc-sri- The diplomatic service regulations do not apply to lanka-statement-26052009 locally engaged staff who are employed on local terms In addition, the UK endorses the EU’s calls of 18 and conditions, governed by local law and practice. May 2009 for an independent inquiry into possible violations of international humanitarian law. It is important Sri Lanka that any investigation is credible and transparent.

Mr. Lidington: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has Sri Lanka: International Assistance discussed the application of economic sanctions to Sri Lanka with his counterparts in other governments in Mr. Lidington: To ask the Secretary of State for the last two years. [287204] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent representations he has made to the government of Sri Mr.IvanLewis:We have held wide ranging discussions Lanka on access of aid agencies to refugee camps in with partners in the international community on the that country. [287380] situation in Sri Lanka, but there have been no formal discussions at the EU or UN on economic sanctions. Mr. Ivan Lewis: In addition to the recent representations There are currently no economic embargoes or sanctions outlined by my hon. Friend the Minister of State at the in place against Sri Lanka. It is important to ensure any Department for International Development (Mr. Michael action does not adversely affect the Sri Lankan people Foster) in his reply of 13 July 2009, Official Report, themselves. column 32W, we continue to raise the issue of access to the camps with the Government of Sri Lanka and have Sri Lanka: Human Rights urged them to work in partnership with the UN, the International Committee of the Red Cross and other Mr. Lidington: To ask the Secretary of State for humanitarian agencies to address the ongoing needs of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment internally displaced persons (IDP). his Department has made of recent reports of human My noble Friend the Minister for Africa, Asia and rights abuses in refugee camps in Sri Lanka; and if he the UN, Lord Malloch-Brown, also released a statement will make a statement. [287381] on 9 July 2009 urging the Government of Sri Lanka to continue its dialogue with the Red Cross in relation to Mr. Ivan Lewis: We are increasingly concerned about the civilians in IDP camps. A copy of the statement can the lack of freedom of movement in the camps for be found here: internally displaced persons (IDP) and the restrictions http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/newsroom/latest-news/?view= put on protection activities, including ensuring the safety PressS&id=20551605 963W Written Answers20 JULY 2009 Written Answers 964W

Ukraine: Embassies Following the efforts of the embassy, the land on which the monument stands and associated historical Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for artefacts have now been transferred to the ownership of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will assess the Sevastopol City Administration, a prerequisite for the merits of establishing a network of honorary the expenditure of Ukrainian state funds. Work is now consuls in Ukraine. [286928] underway for the official British Crimean War memorial near the village of Dergachi to become the focus for Chris Bryant: We have no honorary consuls in Ukraine, official commemoration with the complex at Cathcart and there are currently no plans to establish such a Hill being simplified to become a place for quiet network. contemplation.

Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for Western Sahara Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what consular provision there is for UK citizens (a) residing in and Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) visiting the Crimea region of Ukraine; and if he Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will seek to will make a statement. [286929] ensure that the rights of the Saharawi population of Western Sahara to enjoy specific natural resources, as Chris Bryant: Our embassy in Kiev provides consular stated in Article 1 of the International Covenant of assistance to British nationals residing in or visiting Civil and Political Rights, are fulfilled. [288001] Ukraine, including the Crimea region. Mr. Ivan Lewis: The Government believe that progress Ukraine: Monuments towards a negotiated solution to the dispute in Western Sahara, providing for the self-determination of the Andrew Mackinlay: To ask the Secretary of State for people of Western Sahara, is best achieved under the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he auspices of the UN. In accordance with UN Security has received on the condition of the war memorial and Resolution 1871 of 30 April 2009, the UK fully supports its immediate surroundings at Cathcart Hill, near Sevastopol; the efforts of the UN Secretary General and his Personal and what information his Department holds on (a) the Envoy, Christopher Ross, to facilitate a negotiated solution terms under which the memorial is maintained and (b) to the conflict. the body responsible for its maintenance. [286982] The UK maintains its position that Morocco, as the de facto administering power of Western Sahara, is Chris Bryant: Our embassy in Kyiv, in conjunction obliged under international law to ensure that economic with local Sevastopol authorities, has been actively seeking activities under administration—including the extraction a successful resolution to the long-standing issue of the and exportation of natural resources—do not adversely Cathcart Hill monument. This private monument was affect the interests of the people in Western Sahara. built by a local entrepreneur in 1993 supported by public subscription, but has fallen into disrepair due to weathering, vandalism, theft and lack of maintenance [Continued in Column 965W] by its owner.

ORAL ANSWERS

Monday 20 July 2009

Col. No. Col. No. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 561 CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT—continued Bingo Industry...... 567 Topical Questions ...... 573 Broadcasting Bill...... 571 Tourism Industry ...... 564 Digital Radio Switchover...... 561 Video Games...... 572 Digital Radio Switchover...... 564 Digital Television Switchover...... 569 Free Theatre Initiative...... 563 OLYMPICS ...... 577 Museums ...... 570 Budget ...... 577 Pub Industry ...... 569 Costs...... 579 Sport (Young People)...... 565 Paralympic Games ...... 580 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Monday 20 July 2009

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 87WS HOME DEPARTMENT—continued Higher Education ...... 87WS Forced Marriage Case Handling Guide ...... 99WS Icelandic Water Trawlermen Scheme...... 88WS Proceeds of Crime...... 100WS Statement of Insolvency Practice 16...... 88WS INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 101WS United Nations System-wide Fund ...... 101WS CABINET OFFICE...... 91WS Government and Voluntary Sector Compact ...... 91WS JUSTICE...... 102WS Access to Justice...... 102WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 91WS Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill...... 103WS East of England Regional Spatial Strategy ...... 91WS Family Legal Aid ...... 107WS Planning...... 92WS Legal Aid Reform ...... 108WS Planning Policy Statement (Coastal Erosion)...... 93WS Parole Board ...... 106WS

DEFENCE...... 94WS NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 108WS Haslar Hospital Site...... 94WS Boundary Commission for Northern Ireland...... 108WS OLYMPICS ...... 108WS ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 95WS Government Olympic Executive Quarterly UK Strategy for Radioactive Discharges...... 95WS Economic Report...... 108WS

HEALTH...... 95WS TREASURY ...... 89WS NHS Access (Foreign Nationals) ...... 96WS EC Budget White Paper ...... 89WS Regulation of Social Care ...... 95WS Tax Credits...... 89WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 110WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 99WS Discretionary Social Fund ...... 110WS Counter-terrorism ...... 99WS Workers Memorial Day (Consultation)...... 110WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Monday 20 July 2009

Col. No. Col. No. CHILDREN, SCHOOLS AND FAMILIES...... 801W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— Children: Disabled ...... 801W continued Education Maintenance Allowance...... 802W Departmental Electronic Equipment ...... 811W Extended Schools: Finance ...... 803W Fire Services...... 811W Residence and Guardianship Orders...... 804W Fires...... 811W School Meals ...... 803W Floods: Gardens ...... 812W Government Office for London: Finance ...... 812W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT . 809W Home Information Packs...... 812W Aerials: Planning Permission ...... 809W Homes and Communications Agency: Finance...... 813W Business: Government Assistance ...... 809W Homes and Communities Agency: Finance ...... 813W Central Manchester Development Corporation: Homes and Communities Agency: Guardian...... 813W Archives...... 809W Housing ...... 813W Council Tax: Pensioners...... 809W Housing: Energy ...... 813W Councillors: Allowances...... 810W Housing: Low Incomes ...... 814W Departmental Data Protection...... 810W Improvement and Development Agency: Finance.. 818W Departmental Databases...... 810W Knowledge Network Project ...... 819W Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— DEFENCE—continued continued Military Aircraft Reach and Sustainability Local Democratic Renewal Programme ...... 819W Programme ...... 886W Local Government Finance ...... 819W Military Aircraft: Training ...... 886W Local Government: Procurement ...... 821W Military Bases: Northern Ireland...... 887W Local Government Services...... 821W Navy ...... 888W Mortgages...... 821W Navy: Manpower ...... 888W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 822W Nuclear Weapons...... 888W Non-domestic Rates...... 823W Parachute Training...... 888W Non-domestic Rates: Ports...... 823W Permanent Joint Headquarters ...... 889W Privacy: Impact Assessments ...... 825W Piracy...... 889W Regional Government: Operating Costs...... 825W Principal Anti Air Missile System: HMS Daring ... 889W Regional Planning and Development...... 825W RAF Regiment Field Squadron ...... 890W Regional Planning and Development: West RFA Fort Austin...... 890W Midlands...... 826W Thermobaric Weapons...... 890W Rented Housing: Carbon Emissions ...... 826W Wind Power: Heysham...... 891W Social Rented Housing: Essex ...... 828W Social Rented Housing: Standards...... 827W Temporary Accommodation ...... 828W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 715W Agriculture: Subsidies...... 715W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 795W Air Pollution ...... 715W Bingo Industry...... 795W Animals: Exports ...... 716W Cheshire...... 797W Batteries: Recycling...... 717W Community Sports...... 796W Batteries: Waste Disposal...... 717W Departmental Accountancy ...... 797W Beef: Imports ...... 717W Departmental Postal Services...... 797W Bovine Tuberculosis: Devon...... 718W Digital Broadcasting: Northern Ireland ...... 798W Bovine Tuberculosis: East of England ...... 718W Hotels: DVD...... 798W Bovine Tuberculosis: Vaccination...... 718W Local and Regional Newspapers ...... 796W Dairy Farmers of Britain: Insolvency ...... 721W Pub Closures...... 797W Departmental Data Protection...... 721W Royal Opera House: Thurrock ...... 795W Departmental Databases...... 721W Tourism...... 798W Departmental Work Experience...... 722W Tourism Industry ...... 796W Disease Control ...... 722W Tourism: Morecambe...... 799W Domestic Appliances: Carbon Emissions...... 723W Winter Gardens Project: Morecambe...... 799W Domestic Waste ...... 723W World Heritage Sites ...... 799W Domestic Waste: Waste Disposal ...... 723W Environment Agency: Consultants...... 724W DEFENCE...... 863W EU Law...... 725W Afghanistan ...... 863W Farmers: Loans...... 725W Afghanistan: Helicopters ...... 863W Fisheries: Prosecutions...... 725W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 864W Flood Control: Finance ...... 726W Apache Helicopters...... 867W Heating: Greenhouse Gas Emissions ...... 726W Armed Forces: Afghanistan ...... 867W Landfill ...... 727W Armed Forces: Health Services ...... 868W Livestock: Exports ...... 729W Armed Forces: Helicopters...... 870W Marine and Fisheries Agency: Location...... 730W Armed Forces: Housing ...... 872W Marine Management Organisation ...... 730W Armed Forces: Mental Health Services...... 874W Marine Management Organisation: Intellectual Armed Forces: Training ...... 876W Property...... 731W Armed Forces: Yorkshire and the Humber...... 877W Nature Conservation...... 731W Armoured Fighting Vehicles ...... 878W Nitrogen Oxides...... 732W Armoured Fighting Vehicles: Procurement ...... 879W North Sea: Fishing Catches...... 733W Army: Training ...... 879W Oil: Pollution ...... 733W Astute Class Submarines...... 879W Oil: Waste Disposal...... 735W Baha Mousa Inquiry...... 879W Origin Marking: Israel ...... 735W Barron Report...... 880W Pesticides...... 735W Clyde Naval Base: Radioactive Waste ...... 880W Pollution: Prosecutions ...... 736W Damian McBride ...... 880W Recycling ...... 737W Defence: Procurement...... 880W Reservoirs ...... 737W Departmental Buildings...... 881W River Thames: Pollution ...... 738W Departmental Contracts ...... 881W Rivers: Pollution ...... 738W Departmental Data Protection...... 881W Television: Energy...... 738W Departmental Detergents...... 881W Thundersley Common ...... 739W Departmental Disclosure of Information...... 882W Waste Disposal: Fees and Charges ...... 741W Departmental Manpower...... 882W Waste Disposal: Hazardous Substances ...... 742W Departmental Work Experience...... 884W Waste Disposal: Inspections...... 742W EU Law...... 884W Waste Disposal: Private Finance Initiative ...... 741W Future Lynx Helicopters...... 885W Waste Management: Private Finance Initiative ...... 742W Gurkhas: Pensions ...... 885W Water Charges...... 743W Helicopters...... 885W Water Charges: Voluntary Organisations ...... 743W HMS Invincible...... 886W Water: Meters ...... 744W Military Aircraft ...... 886W Water Supply ...... 744W Col. No. Col. No. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 949W HOME DEPARTMENT—continued Arabic Language...... 949W Forensic Science Service: Chorley ...... 923W Australia: Diplomatic Service...... 949W Forensic Science Service Transformation Plan: Cybercrime ...... 949W Consultants...... 922W Cyprus: Land...... 950W Freedomain Radio ...... 924W Deen International...... 950W Global Initiative to Combat Nuclear Terrorism ..... 924W Departmental Contracts ...... 950W Homicide ...... 924W Departmental Data Protection...... 951W Human Trafficking ...... 925W Departmental Internet ...... 952W Identity Cards ...... 927W Departmental Manpower...... 952W Identity Cards: Expenditure...... 927W Departmental Publications ...... 952W Identity Cards: Police...... 928W Diplomatic Service...... 953W Illegal Immigrants...... 928W EU Institutions: Manpower ...... 953W Immigrants: Social Security Benefits...... 928W Foreigners: Honours ...... 953W Immigration...... 929W Hamas ...... 953W Immigration Controls: Abuse ...... 930W Human Rights ...... 954W Immigration: Gurkhas ...... 930W Iran: Politics and Government ...... 955W Members: Correspondence ...... 930W Israel...... 956W Metropolitan Police: Volunteers...... 932W Israel: Imports ...... 956W National Extremism Tactical Coordination Unit ... 932W Libya: Terrorism ...... 957W National Identity Scheme...... 932W Mauritania: Diplomatic Relations ...... 957W National Policing Improvement Agency: Members: Correspondence ...... 957W Consultants...... 933W Ministerial Policy Advisers...... 958W National Policing Improvement Agency: Nuclear Weapons...... 958W Manpower ...... 934W Pakistan: Armed Conflict ...... 958W National Public Order Intelligence Unit...... 935W Pakistan: Crimes of Violence ...... 959W Offences Against Children ...... 936W Palestinians ...... 959W Offenders: Foreigners...... 937W Palestinians: Children ...... 960W Office of Cyber Security: Cyber Security Palestinians: Israel ...... 960W Operations Centre...... 937W Ports: Non-Domestic Rates...... 960W Official Residences ...... 937W Russia: Diplomatic Service...... 961W Passports: Fraud ...... 937W Sri Lanka ...... 961W Passports: Interviews...... 939W Sri Lanka: Human Rights...... 961W Police ...... 941W Sri Lanka: International Assistance ...... 962W Police Community Support Officers: Lancashire ... 944W Ukraine: Embassies...... 963W Police: Cybercrime ...... 945W Ukraine: Monuments...... 963W Police: Training ...... 945W Western Sahara ...... 964W Prisoners Release: Foreigners...... 945W Refugees: Iraq ...... 946W Serious and Organised Crime Agency...... 946W HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 903W Serious Crime Prevention Orders: Antisocial Antisocial Behaviour ...... 903W Behaviour Orders...... 946W Asylum ...... 903W Serious Organised Crime Agency: Travel ...... 946W Asylum: Iran...... 903W Terrorism: Arrests...... 947W Asylum: Northern Ireland ...... 904W Travel Restrictions...... 947W Asylum: Offenders ...... 904W UK Border Agency: Correspondence...... 948W Borders: Police ...... 904W UK Border Agency: Manpower...... 948W Cabinet: Glasgow...... 905W UK Border Agency: Passports ...... 948W CCTV ...... 905W UK Border Agency: Training...... 949W Closed Circuit Television: York...... 906W Community Relations: Finance...... 906W Crime...... 907W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 745W East of England Grand Committee ...... 745W Crimes of Violence: Essex...... 907W Members: Allowances ...... 745W Criminal Records Bureau: Compensation...... 908W Members: Offices ...... 746W Cybercrime ...... 908W Parliament: Internet...... 747W Damian McBride ...... 908W Portcullis House: Fire Alarms...... 747W Demonstrations: Parliament Square ...... 908W Standing Committees: Internet ...... 747W Demos...... 909W Trade Unions ...... 748W Departmental Consultants...... 909W Departmental Drinking Water ...... 909W Departmental Flags ...... 909W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 807W Departmental Internet ...... 910W Departmental Buildings...... 807W Departmental Secondment ...... 910W Departmental Data Protection...... 808W Deportation ...... 910W Departmental Work Experience...... 808W Deportation: Prisoners...... 910W Food Security Initiative...... 808W DNA: Databases...... 911W Driving Offences: Alcoholic Drinks ...... 913W LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 800W Drug and Alcohol Action Team...... 913W Damian McBride ...... 800W Entry Clearances...... 920W Glasgow...... 800W Entry Clearances: Pakistan ...... 921W Members: Allowances ...... 800W EU Law...... 919W Members: Correspondence ...... 800W Forensic Science Service...... 921W Political Parties and Elections Bill...... 801W Forensic Science Service: Chepstow ...... 923W Scottish Grand Committee ...... 801W Col. No. Col. No. LEADER OF THE HOUSE—continued TRANSPORT ...... 748W Written Questions ...... 801W A127: Speed Limits...... 748W Airports: Noise ...... 748W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 774W Airports: South East ...... 749W Bomb Disposal ...... 774W Aviation ...... 749W Departmental Buildings...... 775W Aviation: Disabled...... 750W Departmental Correspondence ...... 775W Bus Services: Concessions ...... 750W Departmental Databases...... 776W Channel Tunnel Railway Line ...... 751W Departmental Electronic Equipment ...... 782W Cycling: Hampshire ...... 751W Departmental Internet ...... 782W Damian McBride ...... 752W Departmental Manpower...... 783W Departmental Conditions of Employment...... 752W Departmental Public Consultation...... 784W Departmental Data Protection...... 752W Departmental Surveys...... 784W Departmental Electronic Equipment ...... 753W Departmental Work Experience...... 784W Departmental Procurement...... 753W Festivals and Special Occasions ...... 785W First Great Western...... 755W Fuels: Smuggling...... 785W Galileo ...... 755W Northern Ireland Information Service: Great North Eastern Railway: Connex ...... 755W Manpower ...... 785W Heathrow Airport ...... 755W Northern Ireland Policing Board: Irish Language.. 785W Helicopters...... 756W Orange Order...... 786W Invalid Vehicles ...... 756W Organised Crime ...... 786W National Express...... 756W Parades ...... 786W National Express East Coast...... 757W Police Service of Northern Ireland...... 786W North London Railway Line...... 757W Police Service of Northern Ireland: Aircraft ...... 788W Ports: Non-domestic Rates...... 757W Police Service of Northern Ireland: Reserve Railways: Finance ...... 757W Forces ...... 789W Railways: Franchises ...... 758W Political Directorate: Manpower ...... 789W Railways: North West ...... 759W Public Opinion...... 789W Railways: Overcrowding...... 759W Security Guards: Licensing ...... 789W Roads: Accidents ...... 760W Swine Flu: Prisoners ...... 791W Roads: Safety ...... 760W Terrorism ...... 791W Rolling Stock ...... 760W Weapons ...... 794W Rolling Stock: Procurement ...... 761W Severn River Crossing ...... 761W OLYMPICS ...... 771W Transport: Costs ...... 761W Cycling...... 771W Transport: Finance...... 762W Departmental Consultants...... 772W Travel ...... 763W Housing ...... 772W Legacy: Scotland...... 772W TREASURY ...... 891W Olympic Games 2012: Consultants ...... 773W Assets: Sales...... 891W Olympic Park...... 771W Banks...... 891W Prostitution...... 771W Budget 2009 ...... 891W Business: Government Assistance ...... 891W PRIME MINISTER...... 767W Charities ...... 892W Damian McBride...... 767W Child Trust Fund ...... 892W Departmental E-mail ...... 767W Child Trust Fund: Bexley ...... 893W Departmental Reorganisation...... 768W Child Trust Fund: Hertfordshire ...... 893W Derek Draper...... 768W Contracts ...... 893W Derek Draper and Charlie Whelan ...... 768W Damian McBride ...... 893W Eastern Europe ...... 768W Departmental Accountancy ...... 894W European Commission...... 769W Departmental Conditions of Employment...... 894W Former Ministers: Pay...... 769W Departmental Flags ...... 894W Iraq: Armed Conflict ...... 769W Departmental Flowers ...... 894W Iraq Committee of Inquiry ...... 769W Departmental Internet ...... 894W Lord Carter...... 769W Economic Growth...... 894W Lord Mandelson ...... 770W Empty Property ...... 895W Members: Correspondence ...... 770W EU Grants and Loans: Wales...... 895W Official Gifts ...... 770W EU Law...... 895W Official Residences ...... 770W Holiday Homes...... 896W Public Expenditure...... 771W Housing ...... 896W Housing: Valuation ...... 897W SCOTLAND...... 765W Individual Savings Accounts: Pensions ...... 897W Damian McBride ...... 765W Industrial Health and Safety: Training...... 897W Departmental Databases...... 765W Members: Correspondence ...... 897W Departmental Internet ...... 766W Official Gifts ...... 898W Departmental Manpower...... 766W Procurement...... 899W Departmental Publications ...... 766W Property...... 899W Fuels: Prices...... 767W Property Unit Trusts ...... 899W Reforming Financial Markets: Public SOLICITOR-GENERAL...... 805W Consultation ...... 899W Members Constituency Work: Hemsworth ...... 805W Revenue and Customs: Communication Service Patrick Brendon Smith: Sentencing...... 805W Providers...... 900W Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY—continued WORK AND PENSIONS—continued Revenue and Customs: Manpower...... 900W Health and Safety: Teachers...... 838W Tax Credits...... 900W Health Professions ...... 838W Tax: Isle of Man ...... 901W Incapacity Benefit ...... 839W Taxation: Banks ...... 901W Industrial Injuries ...... 839W Taxation: Domicil ...... 901W Jobcentre Plus ...... 841W Taxation: Pensioners ...... 901W Jobcentre Plus: Buildings ...... 842W UK Financial Investments ...... 902W Jobcentre Plus: Essex ...... 844W VAT: Overpayments ...... 902W Jobcentre Plus: Finance...... 845W Working Tax Credit: Morecambe and Lunesdale... 902W Jobcentre Plus: Job Description ...... 847W World Customs Organisation...... 903W Jobcentre Plus: Opening Hours...... 847W Zimbabwae ...... 903W Jobcentre Plus: Qualifications ...... 848W Jobcentre Plus: Telephone Services ...... 848W WALES...... 764W Jobseeker’s Allowance ...... 849W Departmental Accountancy ...... 764W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Fraud ...... 849W Welsh Language Board ...... 764W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Personation ...... 849W Lone Parents: Employment...... 849W WOMEN AND EQUALITY...... 805W New Deal: Pathways to Work...... 850W Breast Feeding ...... 805W New Deal Schemes: Essex ...... 850W Departmental Operating Costs ...... 806W Pension Credit: Bexley ...... 851W Equality Bill...... 806W Pension Credit: Derbyshire ...... 851W Members: Correspondence ...... 807W Pension Credit: North East...... 852W Terrorism Bill...... 807W Pension Service: Internet...... 852W Women and Work Commission...... 807W Pensioners: Council Tax...... 852W Pensioners: Poverty ...... 852W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 829W Pensioners: Social Security Benefits ...... 853W Atos ...... 829W Pensions...... 855W Attendance Allowance ...... 829W Pensions: Ex-servicemen ...... 855W Children: Maintenance ...... 829W Research Report...... 857W Damian McBride ...... 831W Sick Leave: Stress...... 857W Departmental Databases...... 831W Social Security Benefits: Expenditure...... 858W Departmental Electronic Equipment ...... 832W State Retirement Pensions...... 858W Departmental Risk Assessment ...... 832W State Retirement Pensions: Females ...... 858W Departmental Secondment ...... 831W Unemployed: Qualifications...... 858W Drugs: Rehabilitation...... 832W Unemployment Benefits...... 859W Employment Schemes ...... 833W Unemployment: Hemsworth ...... 859W Employment Support Allowance ...... 835W Unemployment: Oxfordshire...... 859W Financial Assistance Scheme...... 836W Winter Fuel Payments...... 860W Foreign Workers...... 836W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 861W Future Jobs Fund...... 837W Young Persons’ Guarantee...... 861W Health and Safety Executive: Reorganisation...... 837W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Monday 27 July 2009

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CONTENTS

Monday 20 July 2009

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 561] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport Minister for the Olympics

Swine Flu Update [Col. 583] Statement—(Andy Burnham)

Parker Pen Factory, Newhaven [Col. 600] Application for emergency debate under Standing Order No. 24

Constitutional Reform and Governance [Col. 602] Bill presented, and read the First time

Child Poverty Bill [Col. 603] Motion for Second Reading—(Yvette Cooper)—agreed to Programme motion—(Helen Jones)—agreed to

Political Parties and Elections Bill [Col. 681] Lords message considered

Select Committee on Reform of the House of Commons [Col. 689] Motion—(Barbara Keeley) Amendment—(Andrew Mackinlay)—on a Division, negatived Motion agreed to

Petitions [Col. 720]

Swine Flu [Col. 722] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 87WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 715W] [see index inside back page]