Da´Il E´Ireann

Vol. 673 Wednesday, No. 3 4 February 2009

DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

DA´ IL E´ IREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Wednesday, 4 February 2009.

Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 407 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 414 Death of Member: Expressions of Sympathy ……………………… 428 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 32 ……………… 441 Order of Business ……………………………… 441 Stabilisation of Public Finances: Motion ……………………… 450 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Defence Priority Questions …………………………… 452 Other Questions …………………………… 461 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 471 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: Motion (resumed)………………… 473 Private Members’ Business Energy Prices: Motion (resumed)………………………… 519 Adjournment Debate Community Care ……………………………… 544 Services for People with Disabilities ……………………… 546 Health Services ……………………………… 548 Ferry Services ……………………………… 550 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 553 DA´ IL E´ IREANN

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De´ Ce´adaoin, 4 Feabhra 2009. Wednesday, 4 February 2009.

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Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m.

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Paidir. Prayer.

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Leaders’ Questions. Deputy Enda Kenny: Yesterday, the Taoiseach walked into the Chamber and plundered the public service income position to pay for the wanton waste of Fianna Fa´il’s management of the economy over the past ten years. In my view, it was to a disproportionate and unfair extent. His contribution yesterday said precious little about the situation for persons on the live register. We will be in the House when the live register figures are published, but, last night, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, who seems to have an agenda of his own which is different from the Taoiseach’s, said the increase in the live register would be 33,000.

Deputy Michael Creed: The Taoiseach better watch out.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: Fine Gael should not go there.

Deputy Enda Kenny: I am not sure if he was referring to January. If that is the case, however, it will be the highest increase on record and an unemployment bloodbath. As the figures will be published this morning while we are in the House, will the Taoiseach inform the Da´il of the January increase in the live register and the total figure as of the end of January? How does he propose to tackle this?

The Taoiseach: The figures are being released today. I do not know what the normal protocol is but I have no problem giving them to the House now. The January live register figure will be 36,500 higher than the December 2008 figure. The overall figure will be 327,900 in January. That is an indication of the change that has taken place in recent times. The whole purpose of the discussions with the social partners was to see in what way we can provide more training places for and help to people who lose their jobs. Obviously, the decision on reductions in public expenditure is an important signal, both home and abroad, of our preparedness to manage and stabilise the public finances. In the addendum to the Irish stability programme update submitted to the European Com- mission at the beginning of the year, we took into account this deterioration and estimated, for the purposes of the figures, that approximately 400,000 would be unemployed by the end of the year.

407 Leaders’ 4 February 2009. Questions

Deputy Enda Kenny: This is catastrophic. These are the worst unemployment figures ever in the history of the State. That is an increase of over 1,500 jobs lost per working day. The December increase was 17,000 but it doubled in January with 36,500 jobs lost, bringing the total out of work to 327,000. It is a long time since the former Taoiseach, the late Jack Lynch, said if unemployment went over 100,000, the Government should leave office. I do not know if the Taoiseach intends to do that or not. This is a horrendous situation. I am often struck by the shock on the faces of people——

Deputy Sea´n Power: We can see that on Deputy Kenny’s face.

Deputy Enda Kenny: ——who become unemployed suddenly with no prospect for the future for themselves or their families. That is the real kernel of the problem. The Taoiseach’s emphasis and concentration on cuts yesterday did nothing in raising confidence, hope or prospects for people to either retain or obtain jobs.

Deputy John Cregan: It is step by step.

Deputy Enda Kenny: I will make three suggestions to the Taoiseach that he might consider. Primary and secondary schools building projects must be put on the critical infrastructure list. These are critical buildings to which there will be no planning objections. A generic design can be used and they can be rushed through the planning process. With \8.1 billion in the capital programme and 20% savings in prices from construction firms, a schools building programme would allow for the employment of substantial numbers of tradesmen, craftsmen and construction workers. Will he take that constructive suggestion, if I may use a pun, to heart? Is it the Taoiseach’s philosophy that by increasing the VAT rate, the Government’s take from it will increase? There has been a haemorrhage of both jobs and money north of the Border, despite the Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment making patri- otic gestures. When the capital gains tax rate was cut some years ago, the tax take increased substantially. Will the Taoiseach consider reversing the VAT increase introduced in the budget in light of the fact that it is not bringing in extra tax and haemorrhaging jobs and money north of the Border? With this catastrophic increase of 36,500 on the live register in January, the Government will have to pay more in benefits. Will the Taoiseach consider an exemption in PRSI contributions for employers who take on new employees in 2009? Will he consider tax exemptions for firms involved in research and development for new products which have the potential to create new jobs? Will the Taoiseach consider some sort of loan to small businesses as part of a recapitalisation programme, which is beginning to work successfully for small businesses in Britain? I make these suggestions in a non-contentious way on the basis of providing confidence and hope in job creation measures, which are so important in the context of this morning’s announcement of 327,900 people on the live register, with an increase of 36,500 in January. That is unprecedented and there will be horrific social consequences for those tragically caught in this bind.

The Taoiseach: Any increase in unemployment must be dealt with to the best extent possible. To compare this with earlier times and the comment regarding 100,000 people out of work is to make comparisons with a totally different country.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: It is worse than then.

The Taoiseach: The last time this figure was exceeded we were talking about 15% or 16% unemployment. The current figure represents approximately 9.1% or 9.2% unemployment. I 408 Leaders’ 4 February 2009. Questions make that point while in no way diminishing the position. There are far more people at work now, and having seen figures recently, there are still approximately 1.88 million people working. It is important to make that point. There was a question on VAT rates. The sterling differentiation is the problem in that matter; that is, the valuation of sterling vis-a`-vis the euro is the issue. More than half the products referred to by the Deputy do not attract VAT at all. If the contention is that the 0.5% increase in VAT has caused the problem, it is not the correct analysis of the position.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: It did not help it.

Deputy Enda Kenny: It is not just down to depreciation.

Deputy Bernard Allen: People are being ripped off by chain stores.

The Taoiseach: With regard to the other fiscal measures referred to by the Deputy we must work within the budgetary parameters set out for ourselves and we will work, both internally in Government and with social partners, to see what way we can help those people who lose their job in training, upskilling or reskilling. We will also look to other measures to see what way we can identify those jobs which are at risk and see what way we can try to maintain people in employment by bringing forward interventionist measures before people in vulnerable positions lose their jobs. That work is continuing with the social partners.

Deputy Enda Kenny: I asked about school buildings.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: What about schools?

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: The Taoiseach has informed the House, in response to Deputy Kenny, that the country now has the highest number of people unemployed ever in our history, with almost 328,000 people unemployed. Last week I asked the Taoiseach what was the cost to the Exchequer of additional people being unemployed, between social welfare payments and lost tax revenues. The Taoiseach sent me a reply, which I received this morning, setting out those costs. He informed me that the 120,000 extra people who lost their job in 2008 brought about a total cost in social welfare terms of \1,386 million for a full year and the cost in terms of lost tax is approximately \960 million. When the figures are worked out, that comes down to every job lost in the Irish economy costing the Exchequer \20,000 per year. The additional 36,500 who lost their jobs in January will cost the Exchequer \730 million in a full year. For the past number of months and yesterday, everybody has been fixated on cutting public expenditure. I acknowledge that public expenditure must be addressed but to be frank, we are looking at the wrong problem. The problem that the Government needs to consider and that everybody, including commentators, must look at is what is happening in terms of lost jobs.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: If we continue to lose jobs at the current rate, the Government will not be able to keep up in terms of cutting public expenditure. The social welfare cost alone of the people who lost their jobs last year is the \1.4 billion that must be paid in the pension levy. Every additional job lost will cost \20,000. The Taoiseach spoke about the need to get some kind of consensual approach to dealing with the problems of the economy. The Labour Party is more than willing to engage with the Government, come forward with ideas and address solutions aimed at getting people back to 409 Leaders’ 4 February 2009. Questions

[Deputy Eamon Gilmore.] work and saving jobs. That is the real solution. The figure that the country and Government must now consider is not public expenditure but employment. Getting people back to work is the solution and saving jobs is part of the way to dealing with the problem. I suggest the Taoiseach address the events in Waterford Crystal. There are 450 workers there and if they lose their jobs, that will be an additional \9 million per year lost to the Exchequer. Will the Government address the jobs issue with the seriousness now required? Deputy Kenny raised the school building programme that has been suggested by the Labour Party for some time and there are other ideas. We can expand on and develop these ideas over time. Will the Taoiseach and his Government prioritise the saving of jobs and getting people back to work? Will he give that the central attention required rather than fixating on public finances and expenditure, which has been the case up to now?

The Taoiseach: It is not an either-or situation. We must bring stability to the public finances and without that, the question of progress or regaining prosperity and growth does not arise. We must stabilise the public finance position. It is not a fixation exclusive of all other considerations but a necessary part of the rectification and correction needed to ensure Ireland comes through this very serious international recession to the best extent possible. Deputy Gilmore indicated that one is considering only expenditure and not taxation items. If the gap in the public finances, which could be over \18 billion this year, is to be closed, it will either be done through expenditure savings and-or taxation measures. This particular year is one where we will see the most contraction in the Irish economy, as we try to come through this period and get back to economic growth in the years ahead. This will be the most difficult year. To impose a further tax burden at this point in the cycle would depress demand even further, although I recognise the expenditure savings will have that impact. If the gap was to be closed any more quickly this year, we would have that impact, and that would not be the right thing to do. We must send the signal this year at home and abroad that we are seeking to stabilise the current position, which has a deficit of 9% and 10%. With regard to how we can bring forward interventions that will maintain the maximum number of jobs in the economy, I agree that this is part of our task. One of those tasks relates to competitiveness and reducing our cost base. That is happening in the private sector at enterprise level and, in speaking to employers, there are many people doing this throughout the country. When people sit down and examine their position, the level of demand and orders and the number of employees, instead of simply implementing redundancies, many are putting in place measures such as work-sharing or short-term work. People who work three days per week rather than five will go on the live register for the two days they are not working and that will add to the figure I supplied earlier. Those sort of arrangements are also being made. People are trying to adapt to the situation on the basis of trying to maximise the numbers who can remain in employment. It is a welcome development that this approach is being taken, at management, union and employee level, by many businesses. Rather than ten people being made redundant, decisions are being made for all employees to work a four-day week, to take a 10% wage cut or whatever in order to do what is necessary to retain the maximum number of people possible in employment during this difficult period. This is happening in many sectors. We were obliged to address the position as it applies to the public sector. That was part of the rationale behind the decisions announced yesterday. What we have done will have a beneficial effect in the context of the public finances. Despite our best efforts to arrive at an 410 Leaders’ 4 February 2009. Questions agreement through the partnership process a decision in respect of those finances could not be deferred any longer. On how we maintain demand in the economy, the stimulus programme we have brought forward is the capital investment programme. Based on data provided by economists, the \8 billion spend will have the benefit of retaining the equivalent of approximately 80,000 jobs. That stimulus, which, at 5% of total GNP this year, is the highest in Europe, will go towards retaining jobs. It will also have a reasonable impact in respect of how the Government can provide capital investment through the provision of schools throughout the country. There are generic designs relating to school construction and those type of cost savings and that kind of acceleration through the process to which the Deputy refers already exist. We are seeking to reorient some of our capital spend towards further school building, despite the fact that we do not have much room to manoeuvre. The level of school building currently taking place is at record levels when compared to even the best of times experienced in the past.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: The Taoiseach is not listening.

The Taoiseach: I am answering questions posed by the leader of the Labour Party. While I acknowledge and accept that the rate of acceleration in unemployment is alarming, indicates the scale of the crisis with which we must deal and compounds the issue, it must be recognised that we are facing into our difficulties knowing that far more people are at work than ever before. The number in employment reached over 2 million at one stage, but this has now dropped back to 1.85 million.

Deputy Bernard Allen: And going down.

The Taoiseach: Behind every statistic is a reality. I refer, for example, to families whose concerns are being exacerbated by the fact that their job security is at risk. I understand those concerns. I acknowledge that the unemployment rate of 9% is still too high and is rising. The Department of Finance, in the figures it submitted to the European Commission, has taken account and made provision in respect of those trends. As far as it is concerned, however, the \2 billion correction is needed in order to try to stabilise the position. That is why we made our announcement yesterday in respect of the decision that has been made.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: There is a fundamental flaw in the Taoiseach’s approach to this matter and it is in this regard that I basically disagree with him. The shorthand version of this approach to our problems appears to be that we should stabilise the public finances and the economy will recover. With the greatest respect, I am of the view that it will have to be the other way around — stabilise the economy and the public finances will recover. It is similar to pouring water into a sink. If one does not put a plug in the sink to stop the water flowing out, one will lose it faster than one pours it in. That is what is happening here. The Taoiseach is concentrating almost exclusively on the stabilisation of the public finances and on cutting public expenditure. In light of the rate at which jobs are being haemorrhaged, however, money is pouring out of the economy. The incredible loss of 36,500 jobs in the month of January alone will result over the course of the year in a cost to the Exchequer of \730 million. The Taoiseach will be obliged to make cuts elsewhere in order to procure that money. The nub of the matter as regards our economic difficulties is that unless we get people back to work, business moving and the economy growing again, we will be faced with a problem the Taoiseach will not be able to solve. While acknowl- edging that the public finances are part of the equation, I again say to him that the core issue which must be addressed relates to jobs and getting people back to work. 411 Leaders’ 4 February 2009. Questions

[Deputy Eamon Gilmore.]

The Taoiseach referred to the Government stimulus plan. The latter is not a stimulus plan, essentially it is the capital investment programme — the national development plan. It is what would have been in place in any event. That is what the Taoiseach is describing as a stimulus plan. Such a plan means actions that are taken in addition to provisions that have already been made in order to get additional people into employment. That is the issue we must address. With respect, the Taoiseach is guilty of old-fashioned thinking in respect of squaring up the public finances in order that the economy will recover. That type of thinking belongs to yesterday. The United States is taking a different approach. In that country, the concentration is on addressing the question of getting the economy back on track and moving again. I accept that this approach would require additional injections of capital, extra efforts, different approaches and lateral thinking in the context of retaining people in employment. Let us consider the position of Waterford Glass, which is a practical example. Some 450 people at the Waterford Glass plant are keeping the furnaces burning because they want to work and want to ensure that the operation remains ongoing. It is generally acknowledged that there is a future for Waterford Glass. The company may not continue to operate as it did previously but it does have a future and glass-making at its factory can continue. This is an iconic industry which is almost a symbol of the country. If it is allowed to disappear, apart from the impact on national morale, the Government will, according to the figures the Taoiseach provided earlier, be obliged to pay out \9 million each year in respect of those who will be made redundant. The Taoiseach, the Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- ment and their Cabinet colleagues must engage in lateral thinking in order to ensure that this industry will survive and that the jobs relating to it will be retained. If the Taoiseach speaks to the House not with regard to what the Government intends to cut but rather in the context of what it intends with regard to saving jobs and generating new employment, he will have the support of the Labour Party. That is the territory we need to occupy. Unless we take such an approach, the problems we face now will become much worse by the end of the year. At that stage, the Government will be obliged to make cuts far in excess of those announced yesterday.

The Taoiseach: Deputy Gilmore stated that the way to proceed is to stabilise the economy rather than the public finances. There is a need to do both. One cannot stabilise the economy if one’s deficits are increasing to 10%, 11% or 12%. The old-fashioned thinking is that this can be done.

Deputy Joe McHugh: What is the new thinking?

The Taoiseach: During a previous period of difficulty, we saw what happened when decisions were deferred and when borrowing and taxation on income, labour, etc., were increased. I am sure what was done during those periods represented a genuine attempt on the part of the then Government to deal with the situation as best it could. I do not minimise the problems faced by that Administration because times were difficult. However, that approach does not work. It must be recognised that what we are doing is not a technical exercise. I am not trying to stabilise the public finances for the sake of doing so. It must be done because we are spending more than we are earning. Revenues decreased by \8 billion last year and will drop by a further \4 billion this year.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: That is because jobs are being lost. 412 Leaders’ 4 February 2009. Questions

The Taoiseach: It is not just because jobs are being lost; it is because we are not competitive. Our cost base vis-a`-vis those our competitors is too high. We announced that we intend to obtain a reduction in electricity prices. We must work with the regulator and those involved in the energy market in order that this might happen.

Deputy Michael Creed: At last.

The Taoiseach: The discussions with the social partners do not merely relate to the public finances. They also involve how we support enterprise and use the resources that will be available in the area of social welfare as a result of joblessness. We must identify those whose jobs are at risk and provide them with job maintenance programmes before they lose those jobs. Discussions in this regard are at an advanced stage. We will have a discussion on the economy today and tomorrow in respect of the decisions we made yesterday. Constructive suggestions from anyone will be welcome. I have never suggested a monopoly of wisdom in any part of the House.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: The Taoiseach is not listening.

The Taoiseach: I do not accept the idea that we are fixated with one aspect rather than all aspects of the problem. We have to acknowledge to the Irish public today that during the course of this year, as we see a contraction in the economy, we will see more unemployment. We must be straight with people and say this will happen. This is also incorpor- 11 o’clock ated in the figures we have been discussing. That is not to say for one moment, however, that we are being defeatist. We will do everything we can to ensure we have 1.7 million rather than 1.5 million people working. The number of people working in the economy ten years ago was 1.2 million. We brought that figure up to 2 million.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: The figure is heading back to 1.2 million.

The Taoiseach: Unemployment has now reached 330,000. The official figures on where finances will need to be at the end of the year could well incorporate an unemployment figure of up to 400,000, which is well over 10% of the total workforce.

Deputy Joan Burton: That will not help our——

The Taoiseach: I am making the point that we have to be straight with people. If one is in a recession, there are job losses and casualties.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: If one is in a hole, one should stop digging.

The Taoiseach: I have listened in silence to what Deputies have to say.

Deputy Paul Connaughton: The Taoiseach has no answers.

An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach to continue, please.

The Taoiseach: If Deputy Connaughton has something to say in the course of the day, I will be glad to hear it. In the meantime, under this procedure, I am entitled to make these points. We must do everything possible to maintain jobs in the economy and I assure the House we can and will do so. However, we cannot delude ourselves that not trying to stabilise the public finances would in some way keep more jobs in the economy. Such an approach would have the opposite effect. We must stabilise the public finances, continue with the capital investment programme to build competitiveness for the future and seek reductions in costs, as is being 413 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions.

[The Taoiseach.] done in the area of labour and enterprise costs and will also happen in the area of electricity costs and energy prices. Work must also be done on what enterprise supports can be provided for start-up businesses. On Waterford Crystal, we have been working on this issue for some time. The issue is that an investor is needed to provide a viable plan and capital to ensure business can continue in Waterford and Ireland. This is our objective but private investment will be needed to achieve it. I am glad an investor has arrived and I hope the receiver will listen attentively to what this investor has to say. I also hope the outcome will be the choice of those who want to continue with employment in Waterford rather than those who simply want to take the brand and generate the product elsewhere. The House is united in this hope and in trying to see in what way it can be realised. The Government, through the enterprise agencies, stands ready to assist any viable programme that may come forward which is consistent with us being able to assist. That is the position and there is no split in the House on the matter.

Deputy Joe Costello: Why are the banks not giving credit to small businesses?

The Taoiseach: We need a viable plan and are doing all we can. The Minister from the area is working with Deputies from all sides of the House who have a similar concern about the issue. The Government and line Ministers concerned are also trying to find a way which would maintain a production capacity in Waterford. This is the outcome we would all like. As Deputies are aware, as a receiver has been appointed; the problem is that he is the person who determines the outcome. We are being supportive in every way to workers’ representatives and the concerned business people of Waterford and the south-east region to see what way we can assist the process and achieve the outcome we all hope will emerge. There is no split in the House on that matter.

Ceisteanna — Questions.

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Departmental Staff. 1. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the cost, including salary and pension payments, of each of the programme managers, special advisers, assistants or other staff appointed by him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35746/08]

2. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the names, titles and duties of each of the staff appointed by him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35747/08]

3. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach the advisers, press officers, or other non- Civil Service staff appointed by him since 7 May 2008 and the duties of each; the annual salary costs for such staff; if this group of staff will be subject to the 3% reduction in payroll costs announced in July 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [38355/08]

4. Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach the titles, duties and salaries of each of the non-Civil Service staff appointed by him since his election as Taoiseach; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43741/08]

5. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the duties and responsibilities of the special political advisers as appointed by him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46579/08] 414 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions.

6. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the number of political advisers or assistants appointed by the Attorney General; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46605/08]

The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 6, inclusive, together. The names, titles and total annual salary, including pension contributions, of each of the staff appointed by me are detailed in the table. Under the direction of the programme manager, the primary function of the special advisers is to monitor, facilitate and help secure the achievement of Government objectives and ensure effective co-ordination in the implementation of the programme for Government. They are also tasked with giving me advice and keeping me informed on a wide range of issues, including business, financial, economic, political, environmental, administrative and media matters, and performing such other functions as may be directed by me from time to time. In addition, a number of my advisers have specific responsibilities in relation to speech drafting. My programme manager meets other ministerial advisers on a weekly basis. He monitors and reports to me on progress in implementing the programme for Government. I also appointed four non-established civil servants to the Government Chief Whip, two of whom are based in his private office and two in his Finglas constituency office — these are work sharers. I appointed Mr. Pa´draig Slyne as special adviser to the Government Chief Whip. In addition, I appointed Mr. Eoghan O´ Neachtain as Government press secretary. He is supported by two deputy Government press secretaries, Mr. Mark Costigan and Mr. John Down- ing, who are supported by two non-established civil servants. The Government press secretary and press officers provide an information service on Government policy to the public through the national and international media on behalf of me, my Department and the Government, together with promoting a co-ordinated approach to media matters across all Departments. The central task of the deputy Government press secretaries is to assist the Government press secretary in communicating to the media the decisions of Government. The personal assistants and personal secretaries in my Department have a range of duties, including providing administrative assistance in the constituency office, protocol division and the Government Chief Whip’s office. The Green Party programme manager, based in Govern- ment Buildings, is not a member of staff of my Department. All appointments made by me comply with relevant legislation, including the terms of the Civil Service (Regulation) Act 2006 and the relevant directions on ministerial staff appointments of the Department of Finance. My Department will comply fully with the requirements of the Government decision of 8 July 2008. This compliance will necessitate the achievement of a 3% reduction in my Department’s payroll figure by the end of 2009 and managing staffing within existing resources and budgetary limits, having regard to the overall priorities of the Department. In doing so, the Department will endeavour to redeploy staff according to key business needs and levels of activity, restructure workloads as appropriate and achieve greater productivity through exploiting new technologies and availing of shared service arrangements. On the recommendation of the Attorney General, Mr. Paul Gallagher, Mr. Francis Kieran was appointed as special assistant to the Attorney General to act as a liaison between the Attorney General and myself and other Departments on items relevant to the programme for Government, as well as to keep the Attorney General informed on items arising in the Oireachtas or media which could impinge on or be relevant to his role. The position of Attorney General is not a political position and, as such, Mr. Kieran does not provide political advice. Advisers’ remuneration is linked to Civil Service pay scales and will, therefore, be subject to any possible adjustment that the Government may implement across the public service. 415 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions.

[The Taoiseach.]

Name Title Annual Salary

**Joe Lennon Programme Manager/Special Adviser **221,929 Gerry Steadman Special Adviser 131,748 Brian Murphy Special Adviser 131,748 *Declan Ryan Special Adviser 94,785 *Peter Clinch Special Adviser 204,952 Oliver O’Connor Special Adviser (to the Minister for Health and 177,547 Children) *Padraig Slyne Special Adviser (to the Government Chief Whip) 96,555 Sinea´d Dooley Personal Assistant 66,179 Peter Lenehan Personal Assistant 53,354 Annette McManus Personal Assistant 49,685 Denise Kavanagh Personal Assistant 61,082 John Sheridan Personal Assistant 46,558 Yvonne Graham Personal Assistant 55,030 Sarah McLoughlin Personal Assistant 55,030 Aoife Nı´ Lochlainn Personal Assistant 47,973 ***Margaret Fogarty Secretarial Assistant to Government Chief Whip and 20,239 Minister of State [Finglas Office] ***Linda Weir Secretarial Assistant to Government Chief Whip and 21,398 Minister of State [Finglas Office] Elaine Hogan Personal Secretary [Tullamore Office] 40,479 Colette Waters Personal Secretary [Tullamore Office] 39,351 Eoghan O Neachtain Government Press Secretary 150,712 *Mark Costigan Deputy Government Press Secretary 111,818 John Downing Deputy Government Press Secretary 118,759 *These members of staff are not members of a Civil Service pension scheme. They receive a contribution towards their pension fund of 11% of their salary, which they arrange separately. All other staff are members of the Civil Service pension schemes. Separate superannuation arrangements for which the Department of Finance has responsibility are in place for them. **Mr. Joe Lennon, programme manager-special adviser, has made a gift of \22,193, being part of his emoluments from his employment in 2009, for use for any purpose for or towards the cost of which public moneys are provided. The Minister for Finance has accepted the gift. The salary mentioned above is the total salary prior to the making of the gift. ***On a 50% work-sharing basis.

Deputy Enda Kenny: I am not sure how long it took someone to draft the Taoiseach’s reply or what it cost to do so. I recall that until the 1970s, replies to parliamentary questions included their cost. This is a complex issue. I realise the Taoiseach must have staff to assist him in his work. Last year, the total cost of the Taoiseach’s appointments, including advisers and personal appointments, was \1.6 million. In 2008, the cost of Government special advisers, media advisers and other personally appointed staff amounted to \6.2 million. What level of cutbacks will apply in this regard in the Taoiseach’s Department this year? I note from recent answers to parliamentary questions that a significant number of advisers receive additional payments for salary purposes amounting to 11% of salary. As these persons are not part of the public pension scheme, is it intended that they will pay an appropriate levy for pension purposes arising from yesterday’s decisions? 416 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions.

The Taoiseach: As I stated, those who have a pension entitlement by way of their employment, for example, advisers who have a previous work record as public servants — some of the individuals in question are in that position — will be subject to the same arrangements as any other public servant based on the decision that was made. I have indicated that those who do not have such an arrangement and for whom pensions do not form part of their terms and conditions will volunteer a 10% cut in their salary.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Is the communications unit still intact in the Department of the Taoiseach or is it part of the media communications wing servicing the Taoiseach’s needs? We used to have discussions in the House about the unit’s purpose, responsibilities and cost and the Taoiseach’s predecessor used to invite Opposition Members to visit it to see what it was doing. Is that still intact and functioning? The Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney, who is not here, came second in terms of spend to the Taoiseach. The amount spent on personal appointments, including advisors, in 2008 was \514,000. This does not include special advisors seconded from the Taoiseach’s office. His predecessor, Deputy Bertie Ahern, said the Minister was given that level of staff because she was the leader of her party. The Minister is not now the leader of the Progressive Democrats. Why, then, was a special advisor with responsibility for health and children to the Minister seconded from the Department of the Taoiseach? If there are 600 people working in the Department of Health and Children and 125,000 working in the HSE, why is it necessary to have a person seconded from the Department of the Taoiseach to be a special advisor to the Minister for Health and Children? Can the Taoiseach explain that? I fail to understand how this can apply.

The Taoiseach: It is a situation I arranged for and agreed to, on the basis of the heavy workload of the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney and the extensive reform programme in which she is engaged. Not only is the policy advice available to her, it is available to the whole Government and covers a range of issues. It was an arrangement I was prepared to enter into in view of the circumstances regarding the work of the particular Mini- ster and Department.

Deputy Enda Kenny: If the Minister requires the number of advisors she now has but is not the leader of a party, and the Taoiseach’s predecessor said she needed the advisors because she was the leader of a minority Government party, it is a contradiction. I do not think I will get anywhere with this line of argument. I find it strange that somebody from the Department of the Taoiseach is seconded as a special advisor to the Minister when there are people in her own Department and elsewhere who would probably be able to give equivalent advice in a better format and at a lower cost. I am not running down the person doing the job.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: We all accept the Taoiseach and Ministers require staff in their private offices to do the job that has to be done and respond to public enquires and so on. We also accept there is a necessity for policy advisors to provide advice of a political nature to Ministers. I do not know why there is a necessity to have the numbers we now have. It is a mystery as the Government has been in office for almost 12 years. The area of employment which requires more scrutiny is the extent of the employment of people whose job is the publicity and promotion of the Minister concerned and who do constituency work for that Minister. It seems that many of the additional staff employed in private

417 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions.

[Deputy Eamon Gilmore.] and constituency offices of Ministers are doing precisely that and are doing constituency work above and beyond what the normal allocation would be for any Deputy in the House. In the present circumstances, and given what is being done with public service pay and pensions, that is a luxury which can no longer be afforded. How will the 3% cut announced last July apply to the staff employed in constituency offices of Ministers? Yesterday’s announcement concerned a levy on pensions. Is there any corresponding cut or reduction in staff numbers which would take effect in that area? My final point is on the proposal made during the Christmas recess by Senator Boyle that there should be a reduction in the number of Ministers of State. Does the Taoiseach have any intention of going along with that suggestion? What is his response to it?

An Ceann Comhairle: The questions relate to the Taoiseach’s staff. Deputy Gilmore is wan- dering off the question.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: The Taoiseach can confine his answer to staff in the Taoiseach’s office and Minister of State.

An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Gilmore is heading off into the horizon.

Deputy Enda Kenny: There are 11 men on the other side of the House who would die on their swords for the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach: The 3% payroll savings will apply across all Departments. It is how we provided for savings in that area and are departmental targets. I have also indicated that the offices of Ministers and Minister of State should seek to reduce costs by 10% this year, which is a political decision I made yesterday. We must show every effort to reduce costs in all areas of activity, including the offices of Ministers and Ministers of State. If it is necessary to redeploy some people back into Depart- ments to do departmental work, that should proceed. I have no problem with making sure these things are done in the appropriate way, commensurate to the workload. As a former incumbent, Deputy Kenny knows there is a need to have full time cover in ministerial offices, which sometimes affects the complement of staff in terms of making sure people are available beyond office hours, morning and night. It is one of the complications. I have said I believe there is room for a 10% reduction in costs in the offices of Ministers and Ministers of State. It may involve redeployment of departmental staff back to Departments or units which are particularly busy at the moment or would be helped by an increase in the numbers employed. The flexibility is there for whatever is necessary and I would like to see it happening. Regarding the question asked on advisors and their role and work, there are guidelines in place under the Acts for the number one can have. I understand two per Minister is the maximum number and that is complied with. In the overall context of a spend of \55 million on day-to-day expenditure and \8 billion on capital expenditure, the availability of independent advice other than normal Civil Service advice was a negotiating imperative of the Labour Party when it joined the Government in 1992. It was a good development and, in the main, has served us well. People can make comments one way or the other on individuals which is not helpful. As a concept it is good and one which has to be properly utilised in the correct way. It is a resource for any incumbent Minister which is helpful and broadens the scope, horizons and policy inputs beyond an internal departmental focus and it is right and proper that it should be that way.

418 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Regarding the 10% reduction in costs the Taoiseach says will now apply to the offices of Ministers and Ministers of State, I am sure it is an issue to which we can return in the course of time to see how it is going. I wish the Taoiseach would take up every suggestion and good idea from the Labour Party as enthusiastically as he appears to have endorsed and absorbed the one from 1992.

The Taoiseach: Deputy Gilmore has his own strong commitment to it.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: I was asked by a member of the Taoiseach’s staff if I had a mobile phone.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: The final question I asked the Taoiseach concerned Senator Boyle’s——

An Ceann Comhairle: This has nothing at all to do with this question.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: It was a very good idea.

An Ceann Comhairle: It does not matter how good the idea was, it has nothing to do with this question.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: I would like to hear what the Taoiseach——

An Ceann Comhairle: I suggest Deputy Gilmore table a question about it.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: I would like to hear what the Taoiseach has to say, privately or publicly, about it.

The Taoiseach: My answer to such questions is that we need all people to work hard in the jobs they have been given. We also need to reduce the cost of Government and I have indicated that a 10% cut in the offices of Ministers and Ministers of State is a way to do that. We need people and political authority, people with political initiative and people running their Departments in that way. I think we should get on with the job. On Leaders’ Questions, we have just discussed the huge challenges this country is facing. People who have a democratic mandate should get on with the job that has been assigned to them. We should also ensure that it is done as efficiently and effectively as possible.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Has the Taoiseach given any consideration to a renegotiation of the contracts for advisers from outside the Civil Service in his own Department or in others? Is he satisfied that he cannot find the acquired expertise from within the Civil Service to cover the respective areas he has sought to address? Surely he cannot suggest that is the case? Part- icular expertise is acquired from within the Civil Service, so surely that would match up with and meet the Taoiseach’s respective needs. Regarding Deputy Kenny’s point on the arrangement with the Department of Health and Children, I note he cited figures as well as the secondment of an adviser from the Department of the Taoiseach to the Department of Health and Children. My understanding from the figures is that the expenditure concerning non-Civil Service advisers within that Department is in excess of \900,000 — just short of \1 million. As my party’s spokesperson on health and children, I must say that the advice given to the Minister has proved to be of little value in terms of people’s real needs and their dependence on the health care delivery systems in this State.

419 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions.

[Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in.]

Surely there is a requirement within the overall re-evaluation of the expenditure of public moneys in the Department of the Taoiseach and other Departments to revisit these arrangements holistically to see what savings can be made. Respect and regard is clearly due and must be attributed to people who have given long-term service within the Civil Service and the public service. Without question, they must have acquired the necessary skills and knowledge to match, if not better, that of any of those who are brought in privately.

The Taoiseach: There are many who have taken up advisory positions for many Ministers in different Administrations who have had long-term public service careers. Many of them — from memory, perhaps even the majority, certainly in my party — will have been people with a long-term involvement with the system. They understand how policy is formulated and how one interacts between Departments in order to get work done by undertaking and implementing initiatives. There are also some people who come in from outside who have also been very good. Certain skills are required to do that job properly. Many have been successful but there is no identikit formula. It depends very much on a Minister’s own initiative in the first instance and the ability of those who are employed by him or her to ensure that the Minister’s writ runs in the Department of which he or she is the political head. Some have been very adept at that. It is important to point out, however, that there is no room for complacency in any of these matters. People have work to do and they need to get on with it. It must be done as efficiently and effectively as possible. That signal must be sent out and I hope that some of the directives I have given in that respect will send that signal as well.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Will the Taoiseach clarify the details of the announcement he made in the House yesterday on the pension levy for those within the public service? Given the Taoiseach’s first reply to these questions, there seem to be two different strands or tiers of special advisers from outside the Civil Service. Is there a body of advisers to whom this levy will not apply and another body for whom this levy will apply directly within the terms of their contracts? Will the Taoiseach clarify the position? Does he propose to establish equality across the board so that if it is not already accommodated within the existing employment arrangements, the Taoiseach will recognise and appreciate that it should be applied equitably to all advisers engaged within the Department of the Taoiseach and every other Department?

The Taoiseach: I have indicated that some staff are members of Civil Service pension schemes, and for whom separate superannuation arrangements are in place, which is the Department of Finance’s responsibility. There are members of staff who are not members of Civil Service pension schemes and they get a contribution towards their pension fund of 11% of salary, which they arrange separately. There are others who may not have any such involvement in pension schemes. Where the pension levy applies, it will apply to those, the same as everyone else in the public service. For those who are not involved in pension schemes, I have indicated that they should volunteer a 10% reduction in their salary.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: I welcome the fact the Taoiseach agrees with the concept of programme managers. When I was a Minister, two people came to the Department and I answered a parliamentary question as to whether one of them had access to a mobile phone, such was the welcome for the concept in parts of the House. I wish to ask the Taoiseach about arrangements concerning his own Department and the Department of Finance. He has outlined the use of advisers and programme managers, but my memory is that the Minister still took the ultimate decision. Are firms supplying advice services

420 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions. to either of those two Departments, whereby what is being hired is the corporate entity rather than an individual? The guidelines the Taoiseach described are ones that affect individuals. I am asking about accountancy firms that may be supplying advice on a per diem basis. According to the guidelines, in that instance, an arm’s length distance is appropriate between such accountancy services and sensitive international financial decisions. Perhaps there are no such advisers in the Department of Finance, which may be rich in intellectual energy and whose staff may be proposing models to the Minister all the time. Perhaps the same is true in the Department of the Taoiseach. However, are firms being hired on a contractual basis to give specific advice, which paid for on a daily basis? If so, what guidelines apply to them? Is the Taoiseach in a position to state that they do not conflict in any way either with the examination of the models or their application?

The Taoiseach: The questions for my Department or any other Department regarding the role of advisers are specific to individuals. As the Deputy knows, from time to time, firms are employed for their expertise. Various guidelines and rules on public procurement are laid out as to the basis on which that advice would be sought and used within any Department’s structure. The Deputy should table a parliamentary question on that matter to the Department of Finance in order to elicit more accurate information.

Deputy Jim O’Keeffe: Arising from the Taoiseach’s replies, can we gather that there will be an actual reduction in numbers in the Department of the Taoiseach and other Departments in the course of this year? He referred to some existing members of staff being reallocated to departmental duties. Will that be a clean break situation or will they just get a redesignated title and continue doing the work they are currently doing in the various officeholders’ offices?

The Taoiseach: I cannot give an accurate reply to that question. Similarly to the Exchequer payroll savings of 3%, I have indicated that within Departments and the offices of Ministers and Ministers of State I would like to see a reduction of 10% in the costs of running those offices in whatever way that is required. We must give flexibility to Departments as to how that might happen in particular situations. It may involve early deployment or a reduction in overtime. We need to see a cost saving there so that a signal is sent out that such efforts are being made within the political offices of Departments as well as in departmental offices and agencies generally. We need to see reductions in the cost of servicing these offices. That is my point.

Northern Ireland Issues. 7. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35748/08]

8. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his meeting on 17 October 2008 with a delegation from the Democratic Unionist Party. [36581/08]

9. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his meeting on 17 October 2008 with a delegation from Sinn Fe´in. [36582/08]

10. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with Sinn Fe´in on 17 October 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36670/08]

421 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions.

11. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Northern Ireland First Minister, Mr. Peter Robinson; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36671/08]

12. Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his contacts with the British Prime Minister on the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42397/08]

13. Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his contacts with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister in relation to the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42398/08]

14. Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach if the relatives of those killed in the Ballymurphy massacre by the British army in August 1971 have requested a meeting with him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43740/08]

15. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44685/08]

16. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on recent developments in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46563/08]

17. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46564/08]

18. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with the British Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46565/08]

19. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach when he next expects to meet the British Prime Minister, Mr. Brown; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46566/08]

20. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach when the Forum on Peace and Reconciliation will next meet; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46574/08]

21. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his participation in the seventh plenary meeting of the North South Ministerial Council held in Derry on 23 January 2009. [3044/09]

22. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach his plans for the future of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3142/09]

23. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the recent North South Ministerial Council meeting in Derry; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3349/09]

The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 to 23, inclusive, together. Together with my ministerial colleagues, I met with First Minister Peter Robinson, Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness and their colleagues at the seventh plenary meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council in Magee College, Derry on Friday, 23 January. We had a very wide-ranging and practical discussion with a focus on how we can work together to face the challenges that confront us, including the economic challenges and the

422 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions. need for continuing practical and mutually beneficial North-South co-operation which can assist both Administrations in our efforts to deal with the economic downturn. The council noted the key developments in the North-South Ministerial Council through the 14 sectoral meetings held since the last plenary meeting in Dundalk last February and wel- comed the co-operation taken forward at those meetings. We also had an opportunity to discuss the excellent examples of projects being taken forward in the north west through the north- west gateway initiative, where there is significant co-operation on road infrastructure, airports, skills and training, higher education and spatial planning. Agencies such as the IDA, Invest NI, Tourism Ireland and InterTrade Ireland are working closely together on inward investment, tourism and cross-Border trade. We noted progress on the North-South parliamentary forum and the agreement to establish two working groups to develop proposals for such a body as well as the Irish Government’s proposals on the role, format, membership and operation of a North-South consultative forum and the progress made on the review of the civic forum in Northern Ireland. I would like to commend the First Minister and Deputy First Minister on reaching an agreement which enabled the resumption of meetings of the Northern Ireland Executive. It is clear that a considerable amount of work has been done by the Northern Ireland political parties on the arrangements for the devolution of policing and justice and I believe that we can all have confidence that devolution will take place within a reasonable timeframe. At my meetings with both the First Minister, Peter Robinson, and Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, on 17 October, in their parties’ capacities, we had detailed discussions on the then political impasse. I also emphasised the importance of North-South co-operation and the all-island economy and the potential for developing synergies North and South, particularly at this difficult time for both economies. I stressed that progress was needed on other areas such as the North-South consultative forum, the North-South parliamentary forum and the review of the North-South bodies. I am glad to see that important progress has been made since then. I have kept in regular contact with Prime Minister Brown over recent months on Northern Ireland and our officials continue to meet frequently. I expect to meet Prime Minister Brown at the next EU Council meeting in March. I did receive a request to meet with representatives of the Ballymurphy Families Committee and I understand that the families recently met with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, and they also met the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Michea´l Martin on Thursday, 29 January. With the restoration of the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland, there are no current proposals to re-convene the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Is the Taoiseach concerned about the growing unease about dissident republicans and their activities in Northern Ireland, as a result of the discovery of a 300 lb car bomb in County Down recently, which was, apparently, intended for the Ballykindler army base? What is the Government assessment of the numbers involved in dissident republican activities? Based on the information available to the Taoiseach from security information, is he concerned about this? Has the Taoiseach taken into account the comment by the Garda Commissioner recently that the impact and effect of these persons should not be underestimated?

The Taoiseach: There is no room for complacency with regard to dissident activity. As the Deputy knows, the security services have been keeping a close eye on and have been involved

423 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions.

[The Taoiseach.] in monitoring and surveillance of activities. Thankfully, they have been very successful in intervening and ensuring that certain major catastrophes did not happen in the past, given the malign intent of these people to cause havoc and undermine the democratic wishes of the people North and South to live in peace and harmony under both the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement. It is important to emphasise that the Garda Commissioner and other security services management personnel are vigilant in this matter. The level of co-operation between the police forces on the island is what is necessary and I am not aware of any problems regarding the necessary co-operation required to liaise closely and keep a close eye on these people.

Deputy Enda Kenny: The Eames-Bradley report published recently makes 30 recommendations. Has the Taoiseach examined that report and is there a Government response on the implementation of these recommendations? Is it correct policy to pursue compensation for families of victims, as is proposed? Money can never bring back a loved one, nor does money equate with the truth being made available to people. Has any family of victims in this jurisdiction been compensated by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform? If so, has the Taoiseach the relevant figures in that regard? Does the Taoiseach have a view on information available to the British Government being made available to the families of the victims of the Omagh bomb who are pursuing the terrorists through the courts? The Ta´naiste referred recently to the fact that she was considering introducing price controls to deal with the situation where retailers were not offering the correct euro-sterling exchange rate. What guidelines or conditions does she intend to introduce and when does she intend to introduce them?

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy is extending the remit of the question beyond its boundaries.

The Taoiseach: That question is beyond the remit of these questions. Perhaps questions to the Ta´naiste would elicit the answer.

Deputy Enda Kenny: I will ask her so, but she does not answer very clearly much of the time.

An Ceann Comhairle: I am sure she will. Do not worry about that.

Deputy Mary Coughlan: I can be very distinct.

The Taoiseach: She will be very clear and concise if she knows the information that is required.

Deputy Enda Kenny: She did not answer very well yesterday.

An Ceann Comhairle: We must move on.

Deputy Enda Kenny: I will take the Taoiseach’s advice and ask her a question, if he takes my advice on issues also.

The Taoiseach: No deal.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Let us not fall out over it.

424 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions.

The Taoiseach: The Eames-Bradley report is somewhat outside the remit of these questions also, but I will try to be helpful. I commend the group on the extraordinary effort it put into its difficult task, and particularly the widespread consultations in which it engaged during the course of its work. Finding consensus or any agreed way forward around issues coming out of a conflict is very difficult, if not impossible, given the depth of hurt and suspicion still there. The report itself covers such themes as the legacy of the past, reconciliation, support for victims and survivors, addressing society issues and justice and information recovery. I would not like to give a detailed response on the report as yet. The issues with which it deals are complex and require detailed consideration. With regard to the question of payments to families, this is a lengthy report on very complex issues that has been prepared by people of impeccable credentials over 18 months. It would be premature for me to comment on aspects of the report in isolation, without giving full consideration to all its recommendations. It has always been the Government’s position that there should not be a hierarchy of victims. The loss of a loved one affects those left behind equally. However, I understand the depth of feeling in Northern Ireland on the issue of payments to families of all those who died as a result of the conflict. I note that the First Minister and others have expressed reservations about a proposal that would, potentially, see payments to families of perpetrators as well as to victims of atrocities. I understand that point of view. It is an issue we need to consider further.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: I understand that one of the decisions made at the North-South Ministerial Council was to establish two working groups to look at the idea of progressing the North-South parliamentary body promised or intended to be established following the Good Friday Agreement. I have raised this issue previously, but little or no progress has been made on establishing the North-South parliamentary body. What is the intention with regard to the working groups? Is there a timetable within which they must report and when, realistically, might we see some progress being made on the establishment of a North-South parliamentary body? There has been a suggestion from the DUP that the number of Ministries in the Northern Ireland Executive might be reduced. I understand this suggestion is being advanced as a kind of cost-cutting measure in the current economic environment. While I can see there would be political temptation on the part of the DUP and, perhaps, Sinn Fe´in to reduce the number of Ministries, which would have consequences for the SDLP and the UUP, this would hardly help the overall political structure and framework in Northern Ireland. What is the Taoiseach’s view of the suggestion regarding a reduction in the number of Ministries? If the number of Ministries is reduced will there be consequential changes in the method of appointment of Ministers in the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure broad cross-party representation?

The Taoiseach: With regard to the North-South parliamentary body it is not true to state there has been no progress. The Ceann Comhairle and the Speaker of the Northern Ireland Assembly, Mr. Willie Hay, are to be commended for the efforts they are making to ensure contacts between the two institutions are encouraged. Visits have taken place both ways. This is gaining its own momentum with the agreement of all and we should leave it to the Ceann Comhairle and the Speaker to lead the process on behalf of us all. On this side of the Border we would like to have seen this North-South parliamentary forum well established by now. Obviously we must work with everybody and all sensitivities must be recognised and understood. I believe there is much good will and good faith in the efforts being made. I hope in due time we will see the establishment of such a body.

425 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions.

[The Taoiseach.]

The British Irish Interparliamentary Body was established in the 1980s and I was a member of its first configuration. I believe it served a very good role, not only with regard to individual relations between politicians from both Parliaments but the subject matter of discussions also helped people gain a perspective and understanding of other points of view. It built a basis of trust and dissipated suspicion and prejudices which people may have had in the past in terms of the role both countries could play in seeking to resolve conflict and be seen to work co- operatively in many areas by emphasising that we have far more in common than what separ- ated us in many respects. Similarly, a North-South parliamentary body has the potential to clear away much of the fog and misconceptions which only personal relationships can help dispel. Many in this House have the skills to assist in this process of practical reconciliation which should never be underestimated in the context of the political dynamic of the country. I hope the efforts of the Ceann Comhairle and the Speaker working together will bring about such an outcome. It has much potential for good. It will not change the paradigm and no one suggests it will do the devil and all, but it will be an important step forward in the relationship between both sides of the Border. With regard to reconfigurations of the Executive, strand one issues are for the parties in Northern Ireland. The format agreed to and which forms part of the Good Friday Agreement emphasises the need for inclusivity and representation. The question of mandatory coalitions and coalitions necessary in a divided society should not be underestimated. The question of representation and the fullest possible participation by parties in the Assembly in the Executive functions of Northern Ireland’s affairs would be good in terms of embedding the progress we have seen thus far and ensuring the change is irreversible.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I welcome the statement made by the Taoiseach during his visit to Derry on 23 January when he indicated the economies North and South should work together to tackle the economic downturn, help to provide people with value for money and address cost issues. Recognising the current traffic is from South to North and it is not that long ago since it was from North to South does the Taoiseach accept the outworking of his remarks in Derry are to work towards a harmonisation of the economies North and South? This is the only way we can tackle the serious problem presenting South of the Border where entire sectors, not least the retail sector, are suffering serious downturns. Across the board significant numbers of job losses are being recorded every week. In the course of the Taoiseach’s meeting with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister did he address these issues directly, specifically with regard to price and VAT differentials between the two jurisdictions? In this context and given the budget increase of 0.5% in VAT here and its decrease North of the Border has the Taoiseach given further consideration to helping to create a new impetus within the commercial life of this jurisdiction, particularly with a eye to the Border counties, through a VAT reduction of 2% for which I and colleagues have argued? With regard to the Ballymurphy massacre by the British Army in August 1971 is the Taoiseach in a position to indicate a willingness to meet with the Ballymurphy massacre relatives recognising that they have been campaigning since August 1971 through all of these years seeking the opportunity to have justice recorded in their case? Among the victims were a mother of eight children and a local priest. I welcome the fact the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Michea´l Martin, met the families last week and acknowledged that many questions remain unanswered with regard to their particular story and suffering. Will the Taoiseach indicate that he would be willing to meet

426 Ceisteanna — 4 February 2009. Questions. the families and recognise they have real concerns arising from the Eames Bradley report recommendation that further inquiries would not take place and that there would be a line drawn and closure for these families and others? It is unquestionably acknowledged——

An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach will not have a chance to reply because we are running out of time.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: There is real hurt and pain which require address. As the former Taoiseach did in terms of meeting and engaging with such groups, will the Taoiseach indicate a willingness also to meet with this particular group of families? I urge that he acknowledge in the affirmative.

Deputy James Bannon: Does the Taoiseach not think it was bad judgment on the part of the Government to close the barracks in the Border region——

An Ceann Comhairle: This has nothing to do with it.

Deputy James Bannon: ——and move the Army personnel further away when paramilitary activity is still taking place in the region?

An Ceann Comhairle: If I had known Deputy Bannon was going to ask this I would not have called him at all.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: The Ceann Comhairle should not be like that.

An Ceann Comhairle: It has nothing to do with the question.

The Taoiseach: With regard to the North-South Ministerial Council and trade matters, one of the great hopes and legacies of having a peace process is the win-win situation for both sides. This is as true for Border regions and areas as it is for any other part of the island. Trying to achieve fiscal harmonisation is difficult. The powers with regard to this matter reside in Westminster as far as Northern Ireland is concerned. To have differentiated tax systems within one jurisdiction is difficult to achieve. Over a period of time, a number of reports have been done on this matter and a number of inquiries and examinations have also been made. My attitude is that we must find those areas in which we can co-operate practically and park those areas in which we find it difficult to make headway. We should deal with the situation as it is rather than how we would like it to be. There have been flows between the North and South in both directions at various times. The real problem has been the very strong fluctuation in the exchange rate between sterling and the euro. The appreciation of the euro against sterling brings about serious issues for us in terms of spend and flows of trade and consumer traffic. We must do what we can in our own interest bearing in mind that we are members of the euro area. Our interests have been accentu- ated in recent times in terms of representing a zone of stability for an open economy like ours. A stronger currency and stronger Central Bank to help us deal with the monetary issues that have arisen in recent months and years have been critical to our ability to cope with the circumstances that have presented themselves to us in recent times. We must address the issues of becoming more competitive and reducing our costs as part of dealing with the problem that has arisen. I hope we will see far more stable exchange rate movements as soon as possible to avoid the distortion that can take place on either side of the Border, depending on the value of the currencies. We must continue to contend with this. Rather than pointing to this as a reason for division between us, we should acknowledge there

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[The Taoiseach.] are macro-economic circumstances that we cannot control and that we should, therefore, get on with practical co-operation on training, upskilling and, as the Deputy suggested, using the regional approach. For example, the North West Gateway Initiative between Donegal and Derry has considerable untapped potential. In other Border areas, we must address the need to overcome the legacy of the past, which reinforced the partitionist mentality that it was a win-lose situation or a zero sum game. We must create win-win situations and can do so by emphasising and pointing to areas of co- operation in the delivery of health and education services and public services generally. We must also emphasise trade and investment and the benefit that accrues from creating employment in the regions in question, such that people can go across borders once job opportunities are created. These are the areas we must emphasise. Let the problems that we cannot solve in the medium term not detract from the enthusiasm we need to show in respect of others, in respect of which we can make a lot more progress more quickly.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: What about the Ballymurphy families?

The Taoiseach: The Minister for Foreign Affairs met the families only last week. I will have him report to me and determine where we can take the matter from here.

Death of Member: Expressions of Sympathy. The Taoiseach: Is minic a smaoinıónn daoine ar thu´ s nua agus iad ag smaoineamh ar an mbliain nua. Ach muidne a raibh aithne againn ar Tony Gregory ciallo´ idh bliain nua 2009 deireadh an aistir do´ , aistear saoil a thug se´ ar mhaithe le seirbhı´s don phobal. Bhı´ Tony Gregory ar dhuine de na Teachtaı´ ab fhaide sa Daíl. Nı´ raibh baint aige le haon phaírtı´ agus ba mho´ r aige an neamhspleaćhas. Thug Tony, seirbhı´sdı´lis da´ phobal i mBaile A´ tha Cliath ar feadh beagnach 30 bliain. Chui- digh se´ go mo´ r le fhorbairt la´r na cathrach agus chuidigh se´ freisin leis na mı´lte le linn a shaol oibre. Nıór loic se´ deacrachtaı´ na´ obair chrua ariamh. Bhı´ gean an-mho´ r aige ar an nGaeilge agus ar a oidhreacht Gaelach. Thapaigh se´ gach deis an Ghaeilge agus an oidhreacht a chur chun cinn. Bhı´ ard mheas ag caćh ar Tony Gregory. Aireoidh a chomhghleacaithe ar ghach taobh den Teach seo uathu e´ go mo´ r. I was saddened to learn of Tony Gregory’s passing on 2 January. I extend my sympathies and those of the Government and the party I lead to his family, friends and supporters. I especially want to express sympathies to Tony’s brother, Noel, and his partner, Annette Dolan. At his funeral last month, I recall Annette describing Tony as a man of principle and integrity who fought passionately for what he believed in. For me, that description encapsulates the Tony Gregory I knew and whom I served alongside in this House for nearly 25 years. Tony Gregory was a man of strong principle and he was a man of great integrity. Irrespective of whether one agreed with or differed from Tony politically, it was hard not to be impressed by his passionate belief in politics and his determination to do his utmost for his constituents. Tony Gregory’s all-too-soon death is a source of deep regret to all of us in this House who knew and respected him. He served his country and his local community well in a lifetime that was devoted to helping others. He cherished his roots in Dublin’s north inner city and he never strayed from them. In a distinguished career in local and national politics, Tony represented the inner city with great dedication and distinction for close on 30 years. He was a proud Dubliner, a great advocate for his community and a diligent public representative.

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Tony Gregory was born in 1947 and as a young boy he would have seen at first hand the grinding poverty that was a common feature of inner-city Dublin life in the 1950s and the early 1960s. The lack of adequate housing and the prevalence of unemployment were just two of the underlying problems the people in this area had to contend with at that time and for many years before it. These were issues that Tony Gregory would spend a lifetime battling to resolve. Throughout his career, Tony was always a strong advocate of education as a key means to tackle social exclusion and deprivation. Tony Gregory had been educated by the Christian Brothers in O’Connell’s CBS before studying at University College Dublin. He had a strong interest in Ireland’s history, culture and native language and he graduated as a teacher. As a young man, he taught history through Irish in Colaíste Eoin, Stillorgan. Contemporaries of mine studied under him and remember him with great affection and respect. He was, by all accounts, a dedicated and committed teacher but his great vocation would lie in helping the people of his own community through politics. Tony’s earliest political involvement was in the official republican movement, in the Dublin Housing Action Committee and subsequently in the Irish Republican Socialist Party. It was, however, as an independent community activist that Tony was first elected to Dublin City Council in 1979. This election commenced a quarter of a century’s unbroken service on the city corporation. As well having served his electorate in a distinguished career working hard for the well- being of the people of his native city on the council, Tony also served his constituents with the same enthusiasm and commitment here in Daíl E´ ireann. He just missed out on being returned to the 22nd Daíl in 1981 in his first outing in a general election but he did not have long to wait before he claimed a seat in Leinster House. The early 1980s were volatile political times with three elections in 18 months. Tony Gregory was a successful candidate in the first general election of February 1982 and he held his Daíl seat in every subsequent election. Prior to his passing, Tony Gregory was by far the longest serving Independent Deputy ever in the Daíl. All in all, he contested four local elections and nine general elections, and bar a close-run defeat in his first general election, Tony was successful in every single election he contested. The people of Dublin Central consistently voted for Tony Gregory because of his well- deserved reputation for hard work and his commitment to the disadvantaged in society. His electoral record is all the more remarkable given that he achieved this level of success without the support of a political party and in a strongly competitive constituency that included some of this country’s most talented and biggest political names, including the former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern. Tony Gregory preceded me into this House, having first been elected in February 1982. By that stage, he was a prominent figure in Irish politics and, through the famous “Gregory deal”, he became one of Ireland’s most recognised public representatives. I first got to know Tony when I was elected to Daíl E´ ireann in a by-election in 1984. I know that Tony was proud of the fact that his mother hailed from the Croghan area of County Offaly and he reminded me of that fact on a number of occasions down the years. As a young Deputy, I remember well the atmosphere that gripped this Chamber following the 1987 general election when Deputy Gregory rose to speak on the nomination of Taoiseach. His decision to abstain on the crucial division allowed the then Ceann Comhairle, Seań Treacy, to use his casting vote to resolve the constitutional impasse facing the country. This decision removed the spectre of a second general election, which would have eroded further confidence in our country, and helped inject some much-needed stability into our political system.

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[The Taoiseach.]

Tony was always courteous and had a fine sense of humour. He had an insightful knowledge of many issues, especially social deprivation and the problems caused by drugs. I respected the sincerity of the views he often held and expressed trenchantly in the House, and no one could fail to be impressed by his courage. Through the 1980s and beyond, he refused to be intimated by drug pushers who were preying on the young people in his community. I have no doubt he will be greatly missed by all his Oireachtas colleagues, who respected him greatly. Tony Gregory had a strong interest in Irish history and he had a deep affinity for James Connolly who was a central figure in the republican and labour tradition from which Tony hailed. Connolly’s Irish Citizen Army had championed the cause of Dublin’s working class during the 1913 Lock Out. At Tony’s funeral, the blue and white of the Starry 12 o’clock Plough flag, the same flag that is synonymous with the Citizen Army, draped Tony Gregory’s coffin on his final journey to Balgriffen Cemetery. As the people who attended his funeral applauded as the funeral hearse brought him on his last journey, I watched and felt there was something very moving and deeply appropriate about that scene. The Irish Citizen Army served neither King nor Kaiser but Ireland and her people. So too did Tony Gregory. The people knew it and appreciated it greatly. He was a hardworking Teachta Da´la — a true messenger of the people — who served his community with sincerity, commitment and skill. He was active on behalf of his constituents and the Irish public right up until the end. May he now rest in peace. Ar dheis De´ go raibh a anam dı´lis.

Deputy Enda Kenny: On behalf of the Fine Gael Party I would like to tender our expression of sympathy to the family and friends of the late Tony Gregory, in particular to his brother Noel and his partner Annette. Those of us who have been here since 1982 or prior to that have been through the conveyor belt of politics with Tony Gregory. For me two occasions stand out in my mind that were both essentially Tony Gregory. The first was his coming in here as an elected Deputy in 1982 and the second was a beautiful mass in St. Agatha’s Church on the day of his removal and burial. The brightness of his eye and the intensity of his voice were distinctive. It was the conviction of his belief that politics could actually influence circumstances for the good, and that politics could influence the environment in which people lived that drove Tony Gregory to say things in this House that were direct, real and truthful. He was never afraid to tell one about his constituency, about the kind of people who lived there, the streets, the tenements and the houses, and what it was that was needed to change all that. This was an area that was neglected by all Governments. Sitting in that seat up there in 1982, having come in with his entourage from Dublin Central and having agreed with the late Taoiseach, Charles Haughey, a particular set of infrastructural developments in that constituency, he read out that list from those benches, much to the annoyance and consternation of others that the Taoiseach, anxious to hold on to power, signed up for that deal. Tony Gregory never suffered pla´ma´s. He was not the kind of person who suffered fools easily. In his maiden speech he set out the details of what he considered were necessary for his people, to deal with education, poverty, housing and the scourge of drugs that were then beginning to sweep across sections of this city. He was a mould breaker because he was one of the few people, if not one of the first, from the location where he was born to, as the Taoiseach said, take summer jobs and go to UCD and qualify. In later years when Deputy Quinn was Minister for Finance and third level fees were abolished it was partly for that reason, to encour-

430 Death of Member: 4 February 2009. Expressions of Sympathy age young people from previously deprived or disadvantaged areas to go to third level college. Tony Gregory epitomised in his own life that mould breaking and rising to that challenge. As for the tie, or lack of it, he always said he was sent here by his constituents, that he was entitled to be here in this Chamber and no rules of decorum would prevent him from saying what he had to say. He was admired for that. He became well known throughout the land. I spoke to him outside the new building of Leinster House 2000 shortly before he became really ill and he said he did not speak about the illness — cancer — that it was something he had to bear alone, and so he did with great dignity and courage. He regretted never having the opportunity to either sit in the Ceann Comhairle’s chair or to serve as a Minister of State. He made no bones about the fact that were he given that opportunity his drive would have been to clean the streets of Dublin of drug barons and drug pushers and prevent the misery and disruption that has happened to so many young people who have become victims of that scourge in the meantime. Maradu´ irt an Taoiseach, is minic a labhair Tony as Gaeilge. Bhı´ Gaeilge lıófa aige. Bhı´ se´ baú´ il don teanga an t-am ar fad. Nuair a bhı´ me´ ag sochraid Tony ina Daílcheantar, chuir seá´thas orm tar eís an aifreann go raibh a lań daoine ag labhairt Gaeilge. Bhı´ an iar-Theachta, Tony, baú´ il leo siu´ d ar fad. Ta´ se´ imithe ar shlı´ na fı´rinne. Ta´ se´ imithe ach ta´ se´ fo´ s i meoin na ndaoine. Ta´ an obair a rinne se´ ar feadh 30 bliain le feiceaíl sa Daílcheantar sin. He may be gone but for anyone who has been here with him since 1982 he was the epitome of a politician of conviction, who wanted to use this House for the betterment of his people. Go ndeánfaidh Dia tro´ caire ar a anam dı´lis.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: On behalf of the Labour Party I very much welcome the opportunity to pay tribute to Tony Gregory and to extend my sympathy and that of the Labour Party to his partner Annette Dolan, his brother Noel, and all his family and friends. Although we all knew that Tony was ill and admired the way he battled his illness with characteristic grit and determination it was still a great shock to learn of his death in the shadow of Christmas on 2 January last. Tony Gregory was by any standards a remarkable public representative who left a lasting mark on the Daíl and on Irish politics in general. Only the most capable and resilient of politicians would be able to be elected as an Independent over eight separate general elections and serve more than 27 years continuously in this House while all the time defending and maintaining his status as an Independent. Tony burst onto the national political scene with his election to the Daíl in 1982 but even at that stage he was well known and respected within the Dublin Central constituency having effectively represented the people of the north inner city on Dublin City Council. When we are first elected to the Daíl, most of us find coming into this House a fairly intimidating experience. Being elected for the first time as an Independent must be a particularly daunting experience but Tony Gregory never allowed himself to be overawed by the Daíl or its procedures. He showed remarkable political acumen in using the pivotal position in which he found himself in the aftermath of the 1982 general election to highlight the need of his constituents and the broader political constituency he served, and in demanding action to deal with their problems. I am sure all the taoisigh in waiting at that time thought they would have no difficulty in dealing with a political novice but instead, they found themselves outwitted, outfoxed and out negotiated. The deal provided for jobs and housing in his own constituency but it is sometimes overlooked that it was not just confined to meeting the needs of his constituents. Under the terms of the agreement, for example, 440 houses were to be built in his own constituency but another 1,600 were to be provided in the rest of Dublin. It was not Tony Gregory’s fault that

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[Deputy Eamon Gilmore.] the political instability of that time led to much of the agreement he negotiated not being implemented as he would have wished. However, he should be remembered for much more than the Gregory deal. He left a lasting impression on this House and was able and willing to contribute on a wide range of issues. He had an obvious love for the people he represented and the people of Dublin Central had an obvious love of him, as was evident by the very genuine and heartfelt expressions of grief we heard from the people of his constituency following his death. One of the many things Tony will be remembered for is his battle against drugs and drug peddlers. Tony saw at first hand the pain and misery inflicted on the people of his own constituency by the drugs barons. He was one of the first political figures to recognise the extent of the emerging drugs problem during the 1980s and he showed remarkable courage and disregard for his own personal safety by being prepared to personally confront drug dealers. He also showed the extent of his commitment to his constituents when he was prepared to go to prison in 1986 because of his stance in defence of Dublin street traders, many of whom lived in his constituency. Tony Gregory was a champion of the disadvantaged and, as the Taoiseach said, Tony drew his political inspiration from James Connolly. It was appropriate that he should go to his place of rest draped in Connolly’s flag. He also drew much of his internationalism from Connolly’s inspiration. Tony Gregory was a genuine internationalist who was always prepared to support the struggles of oppressed peoples abroad. I had the privilege of sharing a parliamentary visit to the West Bank a few years ago with him and he would have been outraged by what was happening in Gaza at the time he was laid to rest. Bhı´ ghra´ faoi leith ag Tony don Ghaeilge. Roimh a threímhse mar Theachta Da´la, ba mhu´ inteoir e´ i scoil lań-Ghaelach, scoil ata´ lonnaithe ina Daílcheantar fheín. Bhı´ se´ suntasach, tar eís a bhaís, gur chas me´ ar an-chuid d’iar-scolaírı´ Tony a chur in iu´ l dom an meas mo´ r a bhı´ acu ar Tony. Nı´l dabht ar bith nı´ hamhaín gur Teachta thar barr ab ea Tony Gregory, ach gur sa´r- mu´ inteoir ab ea e´ freisin. Nıór chaill Tony a chuid Gaeilge tar eís do´ an mu´ inteoireacht a fha´gaíl. Bhain seú´ saíd as an Ghaeilge go minic sa Teach seo agus i ndıóspo´ ireachtaı´ ar an raidio´ agus ar an teilifı´s. Tony Gregory was a unique figure in Irish politics over almost 30 years. We may never see his like again and that is a great loss for the people of Dublin Central, politics, our democratic system and, especially, for those who were closest to him personally and politically.

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley): On behalf of the Green Party, I join colleagues in paying tribute to our late colleague, Tony Gregory, who was first elected to the Daíl in 1982. We all knew Tony was very ill but we thought, perhaps unrealistically, that he would pull through and, therefore, the news of his death came as a shock. Tony dealt with his illness with characteristic fortitude and dignity and it is a tribute to the man that, even at his weakest point, he came into the Daíl every day to serve his people. I also pay tribute to his secretary, Valerie Smith, who during this illness kept the show on the road. We often forget the importance of our secretaries in these moments and Valerie played a huge role. The Green Party Members got to know Tony very well because we shared a corridor. His office was next to that of our former party leader, Deputy Sargent, and we engaged with him every Daíl sitting day on the issue of the day. My own memories go back further to when I served with him on Dublin City Council and to the 1980s when I worked with his colleague,

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Mick Rafferty, in the inner city where Tony had acquired legendary status because of the Gregory deal. However, one only gets to know somebody when one is removed from the hurly burly of the Da´il and takes a trip. Many colleagues went on trips with Tony, who liked travel, and I often feel it is a pity he did not get the opportunity to write a travel book because it would have been interesting. I recall him telling me on one occasion about walking the beach in Rio de Janeiro, which was a highlight for him. It was a memory he cherished very much. Two trips stand out for me. I accompanied Tony to NATO headquarters. We were invited and I will never know why because we spent the entire time criticising the actions of the organisation and the bombing of Belgrade. At the end of it, they were sick of us and they wanted to get rid of us. The second trip was to Palestine and we were also accompanied by Deputies O´ Snodaigh and Gilmore. It was an eye-opener and it was entirely appropriate that his brother, Noel, spoke so passionately about the plight of the Palestinian people at his funeral. None of us will ever forget what we witnessed in Hebron during that trip. I recall Tony being a genial companion and a great story teller. He told us the stories about the Gregory deal, his dealings with Charles Haughey, for whom he had respect, the electoral contests he had, his political opponents, the influence of Seamus Costello on him and the great shock his murder caused him and how it moved him in a certain direction in politics. He loved politics and he loved the inner city. He got a thrill from the film made about Veronica Guerin because it rightly gave him credit for the introduction of the Criminal Assets Bureau, which should be highlighted in his career. Tony was a public figure but, essentially, he was a shy man. My experience was that he did not enjoy public speaking and he only did it if had to and if he believed in the subject. I also recall him as someone with a wicked sense of humour and someone who would tell a person where to go if he or she annoyed him, which I did on occasion. However, I regret very much that he never became Lord Mayor of Dublin. He was the quintessential Dub and he would have been a fantastic Lord Mayor. Deputy Kenny stated he could have occupied other positions in the House. It would have been tremendous for politics if he had made it as a Minister or as Ceann Comhairle because, at the end of the day, he believed passionately in public service. He was a man of principle who was brave and spoke out against the drug barons when it could have cost him his life. He was a politician dedicated to social justice, equality and fairness. That sense of fairness extended not just to human beings but also to animals. I hope our animal welfare Bill, which is part of the programme for Government, will be a reminder of his commitment to the cause of animal welfare. Tony will be sadly missed, not only in this Chamber, but by his constituents. On behalf of the Green Party, I would like to convey my sincere sympathies to his brother, Noel, his partner, Annette, and his wider family and friends. Ar dheis De´ go raibh a anam dı´lis.

Deputy CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: On my own behalf and on behalf of the Sinn Feín Members and our party, I extend our deepest sympathy to Tony’s family and friends. His loss will be felt especially by the people of Dublin Central for whom he was a diligent and dedicated elected representative over many years. As a former French and history teacher, Tony had among his pupils my colleague, Deputy O´ Snodaigh. Perhaps the Deputy is a product of Tony’s years as an educator. Tony Gregory won widespread respect for his work on behalf of the people of his native city. He was committed to social and economic justice and took a stand with the marginalised

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[Deputy CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín.] and oppressed in Ireland and worldwide. He was a believer in Irish unity, national sovereignty and positive neutrality. He gave his support to many progressive campaigns over his years of political activism. He was proud to belong to the socialist and republican tradition and repeat- edly expressed his admiration for the late Seámus Costello. Before the commencement of expressions of sympathy this morning, I was thinking that Tony might well be looking down with a wry smile at his family and friends as they, for a period, had the British ambassador and his colleague hemmed in in the Distinguished Visitors Gallery. Tony would certainly have thought that was apt and appropriate. He viewed with disdain corruption and privilege in Irish life, some of which during his time regrettably reached into this Chamber and the Cabinet. Tony saw at first hand how the drugs trade ravaged his community, a community like so many others abandoned by the powerful and left prey to the drug barons who took so many young lives. He campaigned fearlessly against those drug barons and for the drug treatment and rehabilitation facilities that all too sadly are still not in place. As a sitting Deputy, Tony demonstrated a mettle on many occasions in this Chamber and outside it. One of those instances was his willingness to face imprisonment along with his close friend Councillor Christy Burke in support of the Moore Street traders. As has already been mentioned, Tony played a key role in helping to put together the Technical Group in the 29th Daíl, providing a platform for the smaller parties, Sinn Feín and the Green Party, and the body of Independent Deputies elected to that Daíl. His voting and speaking record throughout all his years in the Daíl was consistently progressive and his passing is a significant loss to Irish politics. Fear dı´lis a bhı´ ann—dı´lis da´ phobal, da´ cheantar dhu´ chais agus da´ theanga dhu´ chais. Bhı´ se´ i measc na Teachtaı´ a labhrann go rialta trı´ mheań na Gaeilge sa Teach seo agus sna meaín cumarsaíde. I again extend the sympathy of the Sinn Feín Party to his partner Annette, brother Noel, his extended family, his many close friends and political associates in Dublin Central, and last but not least Valerie, his very loyal and hard-working parliamentary assistant here. Suaimhneas sıóraı´ go raibh aige. Ba mhaith liom mo comhbhro´ n a chur in iu´ l lena chlann agus lena chairde go leír.

Deputy Mary Harney: I join the Taoiseach and other party leaders in extending my sympathy and that of the Progressive Democrats to the family and friends of the late Tony Gregory, to his partner Annette, his brother Noel, his secretary Valeria and his friends who are with us this morning. Unfortunately I was abroad when he passed away and was therefore unable to attend his funeral. Notwithstanding that we all knew how ill he was, I saw him in this House shortly before Christmas when he attended one Wednesday night during a Private Members’ motion and I had a few words with him. While it was clear that he was very unwell, the essence of the man’s courage and tenacity was that notwithstanding his serious illness he was still able to contribute so meaningfully to the business of the House. As an Independent Deputy, clearly it was a challenge for him to be elected for more than a quarter of a century. Indeed it is a challenge for many people who belong to political parties. It must have been a particular challenge in a disadvantaged area for Tony Gregory to continue to be re-elected notwithstanding the competition of people like the former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, the late Jim Mitchell and the many other formidable people in that constituency. His election represents the essence of the democratic process that we are all about. Regardless of whether we are elected as members of political parties or as Independents we are here to represent the people who elect us and Tony never forgot that.

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Tony Gregory was passionate about the cause of the poor and the disadvantaged, and passionate about education and the Irish language. Above all else my memory of him will be of the very courageous speeches he made here and in his constituency against those involved in illegal drugs. He knew the cancer they were causing to so many young lives that were taken away and to so many families and communities that were destroyed. Others have referred to his independent streak. When he was first elected to this House, he had a meteoric rise, because of the famous Gregory deal. He proved that politics and the formation of governments is not just an influencing power. It is not just about political alliances, but sometimes mathematics has a lot to do with it. As a single individual he held the balance of power. He came to national prominence as a result of the programme he negotiated with the former Taoiseach, the late Charles Haughey. He also came to prominence because he was the first man to refuse to wear a tie here. At the time there was as much furore caused about that as there was about the agreement he had reached with the then Government. When Tony Gregory spoke here he was never frivolous. He was never a slave to cliche´s. He was always very thoughtful and informed, and he made great contributions. He was not somebody I knew well. He was a very private person. I did not have the benefit of ever going on a foreign trip with him. However, I did walk that beach with Deputy Higgins on a different trip.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: I treasure the memory.

Deputy Mary Harney: It is never to be forgotten I hope. That was during the environment summit, in case there is any confusion, when Deputy Higgins was doing a programme and he interviewed me walking along that beach. I never had the privilege to travel abroad with Tony Gregory, nor did I know him well — he was a very private person. However, in all his contributions here I never remember him being offensive to anyone even though he and I and many others would have disagreed about very many things. He made his point and pursued it through argument and discourse and not by offending people. He is a great loss, obviously, to his family, to his partner and to Dublin Central, but he is also a big loss to this House. May he rest in peace.

Deputy Finian McGrath: It is with the greatest sadness that I speak today on the death of Tony Gregory. Before I say anything about the political Tony Gregory, Independent Deputy for Dublin Central, it is important to express my sympathy to those closest to Tony. I offer my sympathy to his brother Noel, his partner Annette, his close friends Liz, Francis, Fergus, Mick, Sea´nie, Maureen, Sadie, Paddy, Ma´ire, Marie, Paddy and his secretary, Valerie. I also offer my sincerest sympathy to all of his extended family, friends, supporters and constituents. Tony will be deeply missed by us all. In a way I find it hard to believe that Tony is dead. I first met Tony 26 years ago before I entered politics. I was working in St. Mary’s boys’ school in Dorset Street and Tony was a city councillor. He was campaigning on educational disadvantage, the drugs issue and major unemployment issues. He was also campaigning for the needs of the community and the needs of parents and children in our area. Our local objectives were the same and I joined his team dropping leaflets and canvassing. It was then I learned about community politics and also about the broader vision that Tony had for the country as a whole. In many ways he was an old-fashioned Connolly-ite with a great vision for the future based on equality and justice. He was also dedicated and a hard worker. I remember many nights after the canvass at 10.00 p.m. when we would all be dying to go for a pint, Tony would be heading off at 10.30 p.m. to do the night shift poster run. That is how hard he worked to get that seat against the odds. He was also an inspiration to all Independent candidates, councillors, Senators and Deputies

435 Death of Member: 4 February 2009. Expressions of Sympathy

[Deputy Finian McGrath.]

In 1999 when I was elected first to the Dublin City Council, Tony was the leader of the Independent group in City Hall along with Councillor Vincent Jackson. In 2002 he was the Whip of the Independent group of Deputies in the Da´il and he was the brains behind and a major broker in the formation of the Technical Group. He was very proud of this and on the unity of the Left in the Da´il. This was the spirit of Connolly coming through again and giving people hope once more. This was Tony’s great achievement. He showed discipline, leadership and courage. I was very proud to be part of that group. Most people know Tony Gregory for the Gregory deal and the drugs issue — and rightly so because they all made a difference and had an impact on people on the ground in the real sense of community politics. However, there was more to Tony than that. He believed in and supported Irish unity and independence, again from a Connolly perspective. He also despised sectarianism and racism and was always on the side of the men and women of no property. Noel, his brother, has asked me to say that his grandparents on both sides came from the Protestant tradition, a fact of which Tony was proud, and he was always very proud of the tradition of Tone and Connolly in this country. He despised oppression, injustice and inequality. Tony was also an internationalist, always on the side of the Palestinians and the Cubans, and he was completely anti-apartheid, particularly when it was not fashionable to be so. With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle I wish to read into the record of the House a letter I received from the Cuban Ambassador to Ireland, Mr. Carillo, addressed to the Irish Parliament, which was written by Deputy Ramo´ n Pez Ferro, president of the Cuban Com- mission for International Relations: Havana, 5 of January of 2009 Year of the 50 Anniversary of the Revolution Your Excellency Mr. Pedro Noel Carrillo Alfonso Ambassador of Cuba Ireland Dear Mr. Ambassador: I would like to request to you on behalf of the National Assembly of the Peoples Power of the Republic of Cuba, to extend to the authorities of the Irish Parliament and especially to the relatives and colleagues of our dear friend, Deputy Tony Gregory our most sincere feelings [of] sadness and solidarity for his death. We will always remember Mr. Gregory as a great friend of Cuba, from whom we always received his support and understanding. We reiterate ours deepest condolences. Deputy Ramo´ n Pez Ferro President Commission for International Relations.

He always linked his community politics in the inner city with support for the oppressed worldwide. He brought this philosophy into Independent politics and was always uncompromising on these core principles. He was a street fighter on behalf of the poor and was also a very brave man when it came to tackling the drug barons. This was not easy. I remember situations when he faced down drug dealers and bullies in the interest of his community. It took courage

436 Death of Member: 4 February 2009. Expressions of Sympathy and it took bottle. Tony would also take the pressure and intimidation on behalf of his own people and on behalf of his own community activists. This should never be forgotten as it was not easy, particularly in the current climate. Many people may not be aware that Tony was also a huge supporter of people with disabilities and patients with cystic fibrosis and he was always encouraging me to push that agenda. He was always in the background advising and supporting me, and ensuring that I was not distracted from the main reason to be in politics, which is to deliver for people. We also had some great times and many laughs along the way. We had great craic during the charity “You’re a Star” programme, especially as he thought I would be knocked out on the first night. It was Tony and Valerie Smith who got the first call from RTE about that show and passed it on to me. I always remember his wry smile when he said: “That’s the kind of wild show, McGrath, that you would probably like.” However, I convinced him after three nights and I made him my manager and in the end he was cheesed off with me for not winning the final. However, we had two great weeks and we had great laughs. This was a side to Tony Gregory that many people would not be familiar with. We also had some great laughs in the canteen, particularly with the Friday and Monday club consisting of a group of Deputies and journalists. We used to give Tony a hard time about getting duck from the staff even when it was not on the menu. The Minister, Deputy John Gormley, will remember this well. As I said earlier, Tony was the brains behind the formation of the Technical Group and was very protective and defensive of it. However, we used to see that look or dry smile on his face anytime Sam Smyth joked about people in the group, especially with remarks like: “They’d be a great crowd to fix your car.” Tony enjoyed that kind of wit but if anyone crossed the line, they were finished and they got that look again. There were many other laughs and good times both in the Daíl and in City Hall. It is hard to believe he is gone. He certainly made and left his mark. Tony Gregory will be remembered as a great politician, a great public servant, a dedicated and hard worker and a politician who loved his country. Tony would like the tradition of Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Muslim and Dissenter, to live on and today in the Daíl we should all honour Tony by doing our best to develop and promote that vision for our country. He had a firm and passionate belief that investment in education, in order to ensure equality of access to education, at pre-primary, primary, second level, further education and third level was required to break the cycle of poverty. He continued his commitment to rectifying social injustice by campaigning for issues such as adequate housing. We remember his untiring commitment to tackling the drugs problem. He showed tremendous courage in his naming in the Daíl of the major drug barons. Tony had a remarkable vision about how to respond effectively to the drugs scourge. He demonstrated that way forward at an early stage of the heroin crisis in Dublin, but unfortunately those in power did not introduce the measures Tony had suggested, including an inter-agency response, until it was too late. He would have made a fantastic Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, had he been given the opportunity. Throughout his political career, he defended the rights of the weakest in society, which included street traders and old age pensioners. In recent months he made a very effective contribution to the debate on the retention of medical cards for the elderly. He had a huge love of animals, which stemmed back to all the summers, which, as the Taoiseach noted, he spent at the foot of Croghan Hill in County Offaly on his granny’s farm. He was, therefore, opposed to cruelty to animals and he took a firm stance in the Daíl on anti- blood sports issues. He had a love of the Irish language and culture. At times he used to give

437 Death of Member: 4 February 2009. Expressions of Sympathy

[Deputy Finian McGrath.] out to me for not speaking the language more often. He taught history through Irish in Cola´iste Eoin in Stillorgan. Tony was well-liked by politicians on all sides of the House. He did not personalise any issue. He focused on the issues and not the person. He never offended other politicians. While he will be very sadly missed by his brother Noel, partner Annette Dolan, close friends, relatives and supporters, his spirit and legacy will live on. He will not be forgotten and his tradition of community politics lives on.

Deputy Bertie Ahern: I wish to be associated with the many fine tributes that have been paid here this morning to our late colleague, Tony Gregory. For almost 30 years, Tony and I have been shadowing each other at residents’ meetings, public meetings and events of all kinds in our shared constituency of Dublin Central. We must have attended thousands of such meetings together and throughout that entire period we have been constituency colleagues, political opponents and friends. When I first came across Tony, he was a community activist in the north inner city in the late 1970s. He became a member of Dublin City Council in 1979, the year after me. I was a Deputy for the constituency of Dublin Finglas but as it became clear that my political base was going to move into the new constituency of Dublin Central, I began to see more and more of Tony on a daily basis. We were both striving to do our best for people living in Dublin’s inner city communities in the early 1970s. It would be dishonest of me to say that Tony was someone I always agreed with because he would certainly look down at me today and say that was not a fair remark. He was most definitely a politician I greatly respected. Ideologically, we may have differed on what were the best solutions but Tony was always earnest and sincere. As a long-time political rival and an admirer of his, I can offer a genuine assessment that Tony Gregory gave total commitment to his constituents and made an undoubted difference to the city he loved. Everything that has been said by everyone here this morning, beginning with the Taoiseach, is very relevant. While he will be remembered nationally for perhaps a handful of issues, the breadth of his interests, both international and domestic, was extremely wide. I attended many meetings and heard him speak in the House and I heard him express his views on all those different issues. Deputies will appreciate that there was always much competition and rivalry between Tony and I and our respective supporters but that rivalry was never personal and I believe it benefited our constituents who gained from our eagerness to deliver for local residents. In all my years as an office holder, Tony and his friends always asked me to attend events of which they were the originators or in which they were passionately involved. I always appreciated that. Our rivalry was also the source of much banter and fun over the years in the constituency, and even beyond the constituency. Throughout the 1980s, he was the guy without the tie and I was the fella in the anorak. Today, I want to acknowledge Tony’s unyielding efforts on behalf of our community and our constituency. He worked hard always, even during his illness. His untimely passing means Da´il E´ ireann has lost one of its hardest working Deputies. His constituents have lost a passionate and committed representative. He has also played an honourable part in securing progress in improving the quality of life of Dubliners, and not only in Dublin Central. On the day he passed away I said that any economic and social history of Dublin over the past 30 years would be incomplete without reference to the determined work and strong commitment of Tony Gregory. That perhaps started with the Gregory deal but it never ended

438 Death of Member: 4 February 2009. Expressions of Sympathy for him. He continued to passionately argue for all of those actions he believed should be done. Whenever those records are written it will surely be the case that his input is acknowledged. Tony Gregory achieved much for Dublin and in Irish public life. I would like to mention two areas, one of which has been mentioned by almost every Member and another that has not been mentioned at all. On the drugs issue, I am aware, probably more than most, of the chances he took in leading those campaigns, and he was the leader of them. He took on some of the most vicious and ugly individuals who were part of the citizens of the great capital that Dublin was during the 1980s and into the 1990s. That was not without enormous risk, and it would be unfair if that determination was not acknowledged long after these contributions conclude. The other was an issue he raised frequently during Taoiseach’s Question Time. In all the years I held that position, he came in here to question me about the ongoing work on the issue of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. He never let an opportunity go — the questions were normally in his name or the names of other Deputies — to raise that issue. Much of the work that took place, and the motivation to continue that work and the efforts I put in to continue it, were because he had raised the issue time again both privately and publicly, and in this House. I will remember Tony as a man of integrity, a hard-working public representative and an all- round decent guy. While we were political rivals, with the exception of one issue that arose way back on which we differed, we were able to get on and do our work as good friends. I extend my sympathy to his partner Annette, his brother Noel, all his family and friends, and all his supporters both in and outside Dublin Central my deepest sympathies. Ar dheis De´ go raibh a anam dı´lis.

Deputy Joe Costello: I wish to express my sincere sympathies to Noel Gregory, Tony’s brother, his partner, Annette Dolan, Tony’s wider family, his secretary, Valerie, and his many friends and supporters. Before I ever got involved in politics, Tony Gregory was a legend. In 1982, the deal with Charlie Haughey had made him a household name, not only in the north inner city but throughout the country. I first got to know Tony Gregory through our mutual support for Dublin’s traditional street traders. As the Deputy for the area, Tony represented the casual traders from Moore Street, Cole’s Lane, Henry Street and surrounding streets when they were being chased from pillar to post by the gardaı´ at the behest of the Dublin City Centre Business Association. Through the prisoners’ rights organisation I represented the same traders when they ended up in Mountjoy Women’s Prison. In 1985 our paths crossed more directly when we both supported a pram protest outside the GPO on O’Connell Street which brought traffic on one side of the street to a halt. The pram was the stall used at that time by the women traders to sell fruit, vegetables and flowers. The anthem of the day was, “Stand by your Pram”. We ended up sharing a paddy wagon down to Store Street Garda station where we spent the evening in a rather smelly cell together. After a couple of visits to the Four Courts we eventually spent a week in Mountjoy Prison. The other major issue of the day was drugs. Heroin took a terrible toll on the north inner city in the 1980s and 1990s and because addicts shared their needles in the early years it was accompanied by an epidemic of AIDS. Tony Gregory was a strong public voice of anger against State neglect of treatment facilities for addicts on the one hand and the complete failure by the State authorities to pursue drug pushers on the other. Public meetings and public marches were the order of the day for most of the 1980s and 1990s as the community fought back.

439 Death of Member: 4 February 2009. Expressions of Sympathy

[Deputy Joe Costello.]

Many of the people in the Distinguished Visitors Gallery today were active members on the ground in those long, difficult years. When the State eventually woke up, the Criminal Assets Bureau introduced by Deputy Ruarı´ Quinn, the Proceeds of Crime Bill introduced by the then Minister, Nora Owen, and the drugs task forces introduced by Deputy Pat Rabbitte in 1996 and 1997 were developments that owed a great deal to the campaigning efforts of Tony Gregory in Dublin Central. Tony probably would not want this opportunity to go by without me making a special plea to ensure there are no cutbacks in the current level of funding for the local drugs task forces and the local community projects which do sterling work in the fight against drugs. Politically, Tony and I were often at odds as we both sought votes from the same rather limited pool. With some of the big names in Irish politics — Deputy Bertie Ahern, the late Jim Mitchell and Tony Gregory — Dublin Central was not for the faint hearted. Tony never tired of chiding me in the presence of local Dublin voters, particularly inner city voters, saying, “How could you possibly vote for a cultchie like that?” I did not know at that time that Tony himself was a half cultchie, his mother being from Offaly, the Taoiseach’s constituency. Tony and I did agree on most policy matters. In the thousands of meetings we attended throughout the constituency for a quarter of a century, we scarcely disagreed on a single policy issue. On a personal level Tony Gregory was witty and sharp. He enjoyed the craic and if he could get one up on one, he would do so with great glee. He was also a consummate politician. He was focused, forensic and radical. He made a significant difference in his time. Shortly after the last election Tony was struck down with illness. His absence from meetings in the constituency was particularly noticeable as Tony never missed a meeting. He fought his illness bravely, privately and with dignity. He sadly lost that battle on 2 January 2009. Tony will be sorely missed by his family, constituents and political colleagues alike. Ireland has lost one of its finest public representatives. Ar dheis De´ go raibh a anam dı´lis.

Deputy Cyprian Brady: I consider it a privilege to contribute to these expressions of sympathy on the death of the late Tony Gregory. I extend my own personal condolences to Noel, Annette, Valerie and his many friends and colleagues throughout the constituency of Dublin Central and the country. I first met Tony Gregory over 20 years ago, and even then he was a well-established leading politician in Dublin Central. I noticed he had a very close, loyal, committed team around him and that the team was not just active at election time. Many of the members of that team have gone on to be community activists recognised in their own right. I had the privilege of studying the Tony Gregory model of politics over the years and as my constituency colleagues have said, we might have come across each other at various functions or meetings three, four or five times a day. There is continuous canvassing in Dublin Central but Tony Gregory’s main strength was that he was the epitome of a local Deputy, looking after his neighbours and the needs of his constituents. As other Members said, Tony was involved in many issues. I personally admired him for his tackling of the drugs scourge in inner city Dublin. Not many know that Tony was one of the main architects of what are now known as the drugs taskforces and the national drugs strategy which covers not just Dublin, but the country. Many of his colleagues were also involved in that process.

440 Order of 4 February 2009. Business

He was interested in many areas but what struck me was the passion and commitment he gave to all of them, whether it was community policing, the Moore Street traders or social housing. Tony Gregory’s legacy will live for many years and it will be seen in the young children and young people throughout Dublin city who are in better schools and houses. That legacy will also be seen in the many thousands of friends and constituents he worked for over the years. Ar dheis De´ go raibh a anam.

Members rose.

Request to move Adjournment of Daíl under Standing Order 32. An Ceann Comhairle: Anois, iarratas chun tairisceana a dheánamh an Daíl a chur ar athlo´ faoi Bhuan Ordu´ 32, a request to move the Adjournment of the Daíl under Standing Order 32.

Deputy James Bannon: I wish to seek the adjournment of the Da´il under Standing Order 32 to raise a matter of national importance, namely, the threat to the financial stability of low and middle income earners posed by the income levy, the pensions levy and the additional levies yet to be announced by the Government that seems determined to force through measures designed to deprive such workers of the means necessary for sustainable living.

An Ceann Comhairle: Tar eís breithnithe a dheánamh ar an nıárdaithe, nı´lse´ in ord faoi Bhuan Ordu´ 32. Having considered the matter raised, it is not in order under Standing Order 32.

Order of Business. The Taoiseach: It is proposed to take No. a11, motion re expenditure measures for the stabilisation of the public finances. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on No. a11 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. tomorrow and the following arrangements shall apply: the speeches of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, the speeches of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, Members may share time, a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions not later than 12.30 p.m. tomorrow and this shall be brought to a conclusion at 1.20 p.m., if not previously concluded, and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes. Private Members’ business shall be No. 5, motion re energy prices (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m. tonight, if not previously concluded.

An Ceann Comhairle: There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. a11 agreed to?

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I have a question on the ordering of business.

An Ceann Comhairle: Is it on this issue?

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: It certainly is. I would like clarification from the Taoiseach on the ordering of business for today and tomorrow. Are the reported negotiations with the banks on the recapitalisation proposals of some \8 billion——

An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot go into that now. That is not relevant to this issue.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: It is relevant to what we are being asked to address.

441 Order of 4 February 2009. Business

An Ceann Comhairle: This is a narrow procedural motion relating to whether you agree or do not agree with the motion as set out by the Taoiseach.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I want clarification from the Taoiseach on this matter. If one is offering \8 billion in public moneys to the banks, then one should be in the driving seat in terms of what is required regarding addressing changes in corporate governance, management, controls and regulation for the banks.

An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot go into that now.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: There is nothing at all to be negotiated. We should be laying down what is required. If the public price is \8 billion, then that is what it must be.

An Ceann Comhairle: I have to ask Deputy O´ Caola´in to raise this matter during the debate.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Changes, however, must be introduced as the public expects.

An Ceann Comhairle: Is the proposal for dealing with No. a11 agreed to? Agreed. I call Deputy Kenny.

Deputy Enda Kenny: I am concerned with the banks recapitalisation problem. The National Pensions Reserve Fund (amendment) Bill will give effect to the Government decision to recap- italise the banks. On yesterday’s Order of Business, I asked the Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment when it was expected the Bill would come before the House. There are streams of cases where credit and overdrafts are not being extended to firms and this is impinging on them doing their business. The Taoiseach should be aware of some movements in creating new companies that may be deemed to be bad companies later. This will have an impact on choices being made later as to what assets are picked by developers and so on.

An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot deal with this on the Order of Business. We can only deal with legislation.

Deputy Enda Kenny: The Taoiseach should be aware that the banks cannot allow any changes in assets.

An Ceann Comhairle: I cannot go into that now. That is for the forthcoming debate.

Deputy Enda Kenny: When does the Taoiseach expect the National Pensions Reserve Fund (amendment) Bill to be before the House as it is a matter of urgency? Has the Taoiseach sorted out the difficulty that arose in respect of the draft Bill produced by the Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security on renewable energy infrastructure planning and development on foreshores? It would replace the Foreshore Acts which are a mess. The Government should prioritise it, given that last week the Taoiseach referred to the potential that exists in the sustainable and renewable energy field. When does the Government Whip intend to bring forward his proposals for Da´il reform? Yesterday, when the Taoiseach made his announcement on expenditure, the business was able to be changed on short notice. We will not solve the problems of the future with the tools of the past. Whether the Minister of State’s proposals are agreed, they should be discussed in the Da´il.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: They should be put on the public record.

442 Order of 4 February 2009. Business

The Taoiseach: The heads of the Bill for the National Pensions Reserve Fund (amendment) Bill were before Cabinet recently and the drafting of the Bill is proceeding. Regarding the Bill referred to by Deputy Barrett, chairman of the Oireachtas Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security, I understand the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, has been in communication with Deputy Barrett by way of letter, outlining the position that he is discussing with the Minister for 1 o’clock the Environment, Heritage and Local Government on how best to progress the necessary legislative changes. He would welcome an opportunity to engage with the committee over the coming weeks and months on its own proposals. It will be a matter between the committee and the Minister to arrange consideration of what way the matter might be addressed or what way the contents of the Bill may have relevance to what the Minister has in mind. On the final matter, I am sure it will be brought forward as soon as the Chief Whip finalises his consultations with colleagues within Government. It will happen as soon as possible.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: At what stage of preparation is the Bill to give effect to the new levy on public service pensions and when will it be introduced to the House? Which Minister will introduce it? The Ta´naiste yesterday told me the National Pensions Reserve Fund (amendment) Bill would have to be enacted before the recapitalisation of the banks could occur. Following from the question asked by Deputy Kenny, when will we see that Bill in the House? Will there be a provision in the Bill similar to that announced by the President of the United States yesterday, from which there will be a cap in that country of executive remuneration in institutions being bailed out by the State? If it were to be applied here, it would be a cap of approximately \350,000.

The Taoiseach: I stated previously that the Bill was being drafted at the moment. On the Bill to deal with the pension levy, the decision was just taken on Tuesday and it will now be a priority for the Parliamentary Counsel and Attorney General to prepare it. The Minister for Finance will be handling it.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore: Will we have it this session?

The Taoiseach: Yes. There is no question or doubt about that.

Deputy Enda Kenny: Will it be backdated?

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: On that legislation, will the Taoiseach be more specific on the legislation that he clearly indicated was required in order to facilitate the signalled pension levy on people in the public service? I raised an earlier question regarding the banks and there should be no mistake that what we have just agreed are expenditure measures for the stabilisation of the public finances. We are talking about an investment of public finances in the order of \8 billion with regard to banking entities in the State.

An Ceann Comhairle: That is for the debate.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Is legislation being drafted by Government——

An Ceann Comhairle: Is legislation promised?

443 Order of 4 February 2009. Business

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: ——to address the issues of governance, management, regulation and all similar issues regarding the banking institutions that are now the focus of Govern- ment attention in this recapitalisation proposal? If legislation is being drafted, when will that be presented to the House? There is to be a very regressive and punitive cut in the child care supplement, which will generate a paltry \75 million.

An Ceann Comhairle: That is for the debate today.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: My question is on legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should ask it.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Is there a legislative requirement in order to facilitate that very serious cut, which will bring about a paltry saving? There will be very serious consequences for those depending on it and it is likely to force women out of work as a result.

An Ceann Comhairle: That is it. If legislation is not promised——

The Taoiseach: I do not agree with the Deputy’s statement. A legislative change will be required to proceed with the alteration in the early child care supplement, in addition to other legislative changes on the pension levy and other announcements made yesterday. For children under five, the payment under current arrangements is \3,100 per child per year and after the changes we have announced take place, it will be \3,000 per child per year. I do not regard that as punitive; it is an indication of the progress made by the policies of successive budgets under this Administration and its predecessors——

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: We will have to wait and see about that.

The Taoiseach: ——in revolutionising the direct provision for child care in line with national anti-poverty strategies down the years. Many of the targets were reached. Taking child benefit and the early child care supplement together for children under five, the provision is \3,100 per year. With our proposed changes, it will be \3,000 per year. I do not regard the adjective “punitive” as being appropriate in any way in that respect. On legislation regarding banks, we have outlined our recapitalisation policy position since Christmas and we have indicated that we stand ready to carry it through. No money has been paid into the banks at this point. Some have spoken of banks being bailed out and billions having been spent on the banks but this has not yet happened. What is envisaged is a support to the banking system on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of businesses and the many hundreds of thousands of people depending on their employment. We must have a functioning banking system to provide lines of credit to Irish business. We have been indicating that the terms upon which that would be provided would require a coupon to be paid. The Government will be ensuring at all times that we seek to protect any taxpayer investment in respect of any decisions taken by us based on the policies we have already outlined and which the Minister for Finance has described. With regard to executive remuneration, a committee will report to the relevant Minister in due course on executive remuneration in the banking sector. If there were to be recapitalisation, I would expect the directors’ fees to be cut by 25% and I would expect that when they appoint their top executives, there would be an upper limit on remuneration. I would expect that whatever it is at the moment would be cut by at least another 25% as well.

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Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I seek clarification on the detail given to the House by the Taoiseach. It is hardly appropriate that what we are being told is taking place is a negotiation.

An Ceann Comhairle: This is all for the debate.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Surely this is not the case when public moneys of the order of \8 billion are involved.

An Ceann Comhairle: We must move on. We cannot debate it now.

Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: The Government, on behalf of the public purse, must be quite firm in its approach. There should be no room for those who want independent and individual advantage.

An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a debate on it on the Order of Business. We will be all over the countryside. I call Deputy Bannon.

The Taoiseach: The purpose at all times has been how to ensure we maintain confidence and stability in our banking system while simultaneously protecting the taxpayers’ interest, should a commitment be made by the taxpayer in that respect. The portrayal of the issue in any other way — as a bail-out or other irresponsible comment — does nothing to bring confidence to the economy or address the issues that must be and will be addressed. The matter will be dealt with on the basis of defending public interest, which is the sole concern of any Irish Govern- ment, no matter what its configuration. It does not behove this assembly for anyone to come in here on a constant basis to suggest there is any other motivation. It is quite the contrary as the issues are far too serious for those sort of flippant remarks to be made.

Deputy James Bannon: Given the possibility that the position is likely to change from moment to moment with regard to levies and charges on non-principal private residences, when will the local government Bill to consolidate the \200 charge be published or is it anticipated that it will be superseded?

The Taoiseach: That will happen this year.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: With regard to the interim report of the all-party committee looking at the constitutional amendment relating to children, when will the urgent requirement for legislation dealing with so-called soft information be brought before the House?

The Taoiseach: I understand that will also happen this year. The Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, is active in that area.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: Is it this year or this term?

The Taoiseach: The latest information I have is that it is for this year. I cannot give an exact date.

Deputy Joan Burton: When does the Government propose to publish expenditure profiles for 2009? I asked this question of the Ta´naiste yesterday. It has always been the custom to have these published towards the end of January and it is very difficult for Opposition spokespersons to make informed comments on how the economy is going unless the profiles are published.

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[Deputy Joan Burton.]

The Taoiseach referred yesterday to pensions legislation for the purposes of imposing the pensions levy. He is more aware than anyone else that pensions in the public service are devilishly complicated and that a huge range of rates and entitlements apply in respect of them. Does the Government propose, in advance of publishing the pensions legislation, to put forward the equivalent of either a Green Paper or a White Paper explaining the position with regard to the different categories of public servants and the various rates at which they contribute now and at which they will contribute in the future? Will the Taoiseach clarify the important issue of whether, in the context of tax purposes, the levy will be applied in respect of gross income or net income?

An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a debate on this issue now. This is the Order of Business.

Deputy Joan Burton: These are reasonable points. I am trying to be of assistance to the Taoiseach. It is difficult for those of us who take these issues seriously——

An Ceann Comhairle: I would greatly appreciate it if the Deputy would also be of assistance to me.

Deputy Joan Burton: ——to make sense of them unless we are provided with the necessary information.

The Taoiseach: The Minister for Finance has indicated that the Revised Estimates Volume, REV, will be available in early March.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: We cannot hear the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach: The REV will take account of the changes relating to the decision taken yesterday in respect of the \2 billion savings that will result from changes in expenditure levels in various Departments. This exercise must be undertaken this month and that is one of the reasons the REV will only be available in early March. It is not intended to bring forward a Green Paper or a White Paper; it is intended to proceed, as a matter of priority, to introduce legislation to implement the decisions taken yesterday in order to secure and stabilise the public finances. The pension levy will be applied in respect of gross income and not taxable income, which, as people know, is the gross amount of pay minus the pension contribution. In effect, therefore, those paying the new public service pension contribution will benefit from relief at the marginal rate of tax on the same basis and in the same way as those in the private sector who make pension contributions. Public servants making existing pension contributions, such as those in the Civil Service who pay into the spouses and orphans pension, have already benefited from tax relief in this way. That is the position.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: I understand the fisheries (amendment) Bill, the purpose of which is to provide for the establishment of a single national inland fisheries authority to replace the existing central and seven regional fisheries boards, is due for publication in the near future. I discussed the matter with the relevant Minister last night. I caution the Government to be extremely cu´ ramach in respect of the Bill because from what I have heard from people in the regions I am of the view that the difficulties to which it could give rise could be worse than those which arose in respect of rod licences.

446 Order of 4 February 2009. Business

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should not give words of warning. He should inquire about the legislation.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: I am advising the Government to tread carefully in respect of this matter. What is it hoping to achieve with this legislation?

An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot debate that matter now.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: The Government will damage local fishing interests. Fish stocks in rivers have been conserved by means of the conservation programmes.

An Ceann Comhairle: When is the legislation due?

Deputy Tom Sheahan: Anglers are extremely upset about this matter. When will the eligibility for health and personal social services Bill, which is primarily aimed at elderly people, be published? Some 21 community beds on the Rowan ward in St. Columbanus’s Home, Killarney, are to be closed.

The Taoiseach: There is no way we can discuss that matter now.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: Is the Bill being kicked into touch until the Rowan ward and others like it throughout the country are closed?

The Taoiseach: It is not possible to indicate when the eligibility for health and personal social services Bill will be forthcoming. The fisheries (amendment) Bill will be published during this year.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: Bı´ cu´ ramach.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: The Taoiseach previously indicated that the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform is drafting a Bill in respect of estate management companies. Will he indicate the extent, if any, of the progress made in respect of the preparation of this legislation?

The Taoiseach: Progress is being made and the Bill will be brought forward as soon as possible. It is not being left in dry dock.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: The Taoiseach also previously indicated his intention that the country would return to traditional banking and lending practices. Will he outline whether the objective of returning to such traditional practices is likely to be realised in the context of the legislation to consolidate and modernise financial services in accordance with the Government’s better regulation agenda, which I did not realise it had developed?

The Taoiseach: There is no date for the publication of the legislation to which the Deputy refers. However, the Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Act 2008 gives the Minister statutory and wide-ranging powers to ensure that prudent lending practices will be the norm in our banking industry in the future. The powers to which I refer will allow the Government to have a far more direct influence in respect of this matter than would have been the case previously. There is no need to wait for the introduction of further legislation in order for the Minister to be active — which he already is — in that area.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan: I understand that legislation will be required to give effect to the reduction in fees paid to doctors, dentists and pharmacists announced by the Taoiseach yester-

447 Order of 4 February 2009. Business

[Deputy Jan O’Sullivan.] day. Is that the case and, if so, when will such legislation be introduced? Will the very generous deal agreed with hospital consultants be revisited, particularly in the context of the fact that those in the health services who are on the minimum wage are going to be affected?

The Taoiseach: The recent contract arrangements agreed with consultants improved the situation for public patients.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan: They were paid huge amounts of money.

Deputy Joan Burton: It was \50,000.

The Taoiseach: The contract to which the Deputy refers provides a better deal for taxpayers and public patients.

Deputy Joan Burton: An extra \50,000.

The Taoiseach: I reiterate that it provides a better deal for taxpayers and public patients than was previously the case.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch: And for the consultants. The Taoiseach should not leave them out.

Deputy Joan Burton: Each of whom will obtain an extra \50,000.

The Taoiseach: Of course.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputies should allow the Taoiseach to answer the questions that have been posed.

The Taoiseach: Deputy Jan O’Sullivan also inquired with regard to the statutory arrangements that must be put in place. These will be incorporated into the Bill relating to the pension levy and other issues to which I referred earlier. All legislative requirements will be dealt with in a single Bill.

Deputy Pat Breen: On the air navigation and transport (pre-clearance) Bill, it appears an announcement from Ryanair that it may reduce the number of aircraft on its services into and out of Shannon from six to five in the summer and from six to two in the winter is imminent. Ryanair is blaming the Government travel tax imposed in the budget for this development. It was expected that the pre-clearance facility, which could be the saving grace for Shannon, will be up and running in July. Will the Taoiseach indicate when the legislation will be brought forward? It is stated in the Government’s legislative programme that the heads have not yet been approved. The Bill cannot be delayed because it is imperative for Shannon that the pre- clearance facility be put in place as soon as possible.

The Taoiseach: The heads were approved on 27 January and drafting of the Bill is proceeding as a matter of priority. As the Deputy stated, this is important legislation and we are according to it the necessary level of attention.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: Will the legislation to deal with the financial and economic crisis include measures relating to sub-prime lending in Ireland, particularly in light of the havoc such lending has caused for some households and businesses? Will provision be made in the Bill or by some other means to control and change sub-prime lending practices?

448 Order of 4 February 2009. Business

The Taoiseach is virtually the only Member of the House to raise the issue of the appreciating euro at every possible opportunity and the problems to which this gives rise for Irish competitiveness, particularly in the context of sterling.

An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot discuss that matter now. The proceedings of the House are due to be suspended at 1.30 p.m.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: The Taoiseach has raised this issue every day in the House and will not mind answering my question.

An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Broughan may make a contribution to the debate.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: Is the Taoiseach in discussion with the governments of Spain, Greece, Portugal and other countries which are finding the euro difficult to manage on new financial architecture for the European Central Bank? If not, will he have such discussions?

An Ceann Comhairle: As the House must adjourn at 1.30 p.m., the Deputy must confine questions to proposed legislation.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: Is the Government having any such discussions in light of the difficulties being experienced with the euro in a number of countries, including Ireland?

An Ceann Comhairle: That is an issue for the debate.

The Taoiseach: As the Ceann Comhairle suggested, the issue the Deputy raises can be raised in the debate today and tomorrow. I am sure the Minister for Finance will be pleased to answer any questions Deputies may have on monetary policy and the impact exchange rate movements are having on Irish competitiveness during the question and answer session. This issue is of particular importance for Ireland given that we, unlike many other countries in the euro area, share a border with a jurisdiction which has a strong, world recognised currency, namely, sterling. On sub-prime lending, the Financial Regulator is in the process of preparing a statutory code of practice.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch: God help us.

The Taoiseach: A voluntary code of practice has been in place in respect of members of the Irish Banking Federation, with which the regulator deals. The statutory code of practice would include——

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan: We do not have much confidence in the Financial Regulator.

The Taoiseach: That is fine.

An Ceann Comhairle: That is a matter for the debate.

The Taoiseach: The Financial Regulator has statutory responsibility to draw up a code of practice which will be put on a statutory basis. I presume the Deputy is seeking information in response to his question rather than merely interrupting me. To answer him, it is intended to include in the statutory code of practice being drawn up those entities involved in the sub- prime market which are not part of the voluntary code.

449 Stabilisation of the Public Finances 4 February 2009. Motion

Deputy Sea´n Sherlock: I respectfully ask that time be made available for a debate on the 2009 allocations made by the National Roads Authority for non-national roads. The reason I seek a debate is that County Cork has received an allocation of \61 million, the 27th lowest of the 29 local authorities. The county has more than 11,000 km of roadway.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s request does not stand a hope, although he may ask about legislation if he wishes. I must move on.

Deputy Sea´n Sherlock: The reason I ask for a debate is that it is important to examine the allocations made by the NRA in relative terms and in the context of Exchequer expenditure on roads, particularly in County Cork.

An Ceann Comhairle: I must move on. The Deputy has another way of raising the issue.

Deputy Sea´n Sherlock: Is it not in order to ask for a debate?

An Ceann Comhairle: No.

Deputy Sea´n Sherlock: Why?

An Ceann Comhairle: The question is not in order because it does not refer to promised legislation.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: My questions refer to promised foreshore legislation and another Bill to amend legislation governing ports, which has been proposed outside the House. I understand the need for amending legislation on ports was identified in talks in some Departments arising from the possibility that port authorities may have transferred land without authority. It has been suggested that legislation may be necessary to cover retrospectively the conveyance of land and leases and the acquisition of new land. I understand legislation will be forthcoming to correct this matter as a number of port authorities’ plans are affected by the current legal imperfections. What is the position regarding legislation to amend legislation on ports to handle issues of property and with regard to the foreshore Bill promised in the Government’s legislative programme?

The Taoiseach: I understand foreshore legislation is due in the course of this year. I referred earlier to this matter when Deputy Barrett raised a related matter regarding a draft Bill relating to offshore development of renewable energy. The foreshore Bill to which the Deputy refers is separate and is due in the course of the year. I am not aware of the second proposed Bill to which he refers. I will ask the Minister to communicate with him on whether it is necessary to rectify an issue.

Stabilisation of the Public Finances: Motion. Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): I move:

That Da´il E´ ireann:

— supports the expenditure measures announced by the Government to restore greater balance between revenue and spending;

— affirms its confidence in the economic strategy of the Government to restore the economy to growth as soon as possible;

and

450 Stabilisation of the Public Finances 4 February 2009. Motion

— calls on all sections of our country to follow the lead of the Government and show the social solidarity needed to tackle this unprecedented economic downturn.

I move that Da´il E´ ireann affirm its support for the Government’s action in tackling the current economic and fiscal crisis. The measures we announced yesterday are exceptional but these are exceptional circumstances. There is an ocean of advice about what we should do and we have listened to that advice. However, in the end, it is for the Government and Oireachtas to act in the interests of our nation and State. The economic position facing us needs little elaboration. Growth is forecast to decline by 4.5% this year and export growth will be negative. Unemployment has increased significantly and will, as anticipated by forecasts, continue to rise, as we can see from today’s figures. The maintenance of jobs must be paramount and restoring competitiveness is central to this goal. The action taken by the Government will be supportive in this regard. The one bright spot is that inflation will ease considerably, reflecting reductions in interest rates and lower oil and other commodity prices. All of this helps to boost income in real terms. We will have to borrow approximately \18 billion this year at steeper interest rates to finance capital spending and plug the revenue hole in current spending. The national debt will rise to more than 45% of gross national product and spending on interest costs alone will reach \4.5 billion or 12% of the total tax take in 2009. This cannot go on. Thankfully, the establishment of and investment in the National Pensions Reserve Fund means that our net debt is much lower. This, together with the cash balances built up by the NTMA, allows for a better funding position than would otherwise be the case. Nonetheless, we must do three things to restore our public finances and our economy. First, we must get our cost base down as quickly as possible and become the highly competitive economy we once were if we are to achieve future export-led growth. Second, we must keep up the real value of our investment in our national productive capacity. Third, we must do this fairly and in a way that reinforces social solidarity in responding to the current economic and fiscal challenges. As we have to get our cost base down, we have to focus our energies on spending at this stage. The simple arithmetic is that social welfare spending comes to \20 billion of the approximately \55 billion the Government spends on current goods and services. The pay bill accounts for another \20 billion and the balance of \15 billion is all other day to day expenditure on public services, grants, administration and consumables. There is limited scope to reduce social welfare given the need to protect the vulnerable. We must also recognise the pressures coming from higher numbers being unemployed. We have been driving and continue to drive greater efficiencies in the delivery of the \15 billion that is not pay. More such planned savings will be made. This leaves the public pay bill. There simply is no alternative but to seek major savings on pay. Increases in indirect taxes at this stage would undermine already weak consumer confidence and drive more shoppers North of the Border. Further increases in income tax would affect our ability to produce goods and services. Altering company taxation would drive away foreign direct investment and capital taxes are not the money spinner they once were. The choices are stark and the options few. We must reinforce confidence in our ability to bring current spending back into line with revenue and do all this in a way that does least harm to our capacity to recover when the international position improves as inevitably it will. There are those who, instead of advancing constructive policies, prefer to focus their energies on trying to fix the blame rather than the problem. There are those who look on and claim, “I told you so”, suggesting that we are the authors of our own misfortune. The facts tell a different

451 Priority 4 February 2009. Questions

[Deputy Brian Lenihan.] story. We are experiencing an international recession of unsurpassed severity, prompted in turn by the worst crisis in international financial markets for 60 years. Every major world economy is suffering or will suffer this year. Our problem is compounded by unhelpful exchange rate movements and our reliance in the recent past on the domestic market and housing sector as the driver of growth. There is no use in beating ourselves up over this. We have to get on and do what we can in a united way. Perhaps as a Government we were over-ambitious in trying to meet the understandable demands of our people for more and better public services when the resources were available. The position has changed. I can recall few cries in recent years from those opposite for less spending, lower social welfare increases, higher taxes or more levies. If this side of the House can acknowledge the past, surely those opposite can stop pretending they were on the side of the angels at all times. All of us in these Houses will have to stand shoulder to shoulder with those who will see their net incomes reduced by limiting our demands on the public purse. The common goal of solidarity underlies the Government’s response. We gave careful and considered thought to the measures we have taken. The social partners were fully engaged with the process and the Government is determined to see this through with the assistance of this House and the nation generally.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Kathleen Lynch): I ask the Minister to conclude.

Deputy Arthur Morgan: With the consent of the House, there is a precedent for moving a motion to allow the Minister to complete his contribution, subject to any time constraints he may have.

Deputy Brian Lenihan: While I am in the hands of the House in this matter, I note Deputies are anxious to adjourn and have their nourishment.

Acting Chairman: Under Standing Orders, the debate will adjourn and the Minister will be able to resume at the point in his contribution where he concluded.

Debate adjourned.

Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.

Ceisteanna — Questions (Resumed).

Priority Questions.

————

Army Barracks. 99. Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if suitable permanent office, living and storage accommodation has been provided in Finner Camp, Custume Barracks and Aiken Barracks for the units and personnel required to transfer to those locations from the barracks and posts being closed; the amount spent on providing this accommodation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3662/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): In keeping with the budget announcement last October, the four military posts at Lifford, Rockhill, Monaghan and Longford closed last week

452 Priority 4 February 2009. Questions with the personnel transferring to Finner, Dundalk and Athlone. I would like to take this opportunity to record my, and the Government’s, appreciation of the professional manner in which the closures and transfers were conducted. The military authorities had conducted a detailed review of the immediate requirements to enable the closure of the four barracks. This identified that most of the requirements for those transferring to a new location could be met from existing resources. However, a need for some immediate works, mainly the provision of storage facilities, was identified. These were provided in advance of the moves at a cost of about \550,000. In addition to the immediate requirements, some medium-term capital works will be required in Finner Camp, Custume Barracks and Aiken Barracks to provide more permanent arrangements for the transferring personnel. These are being advanced within the Department’s capital programme. My Department is engaged in an ongoing capital programme designed to modernise and enhance the training, operational and accommodation facilities available to the Defence Forces, both permanent and reserve. The programme focuses mainly on infrastructural projects comprising the construction of new buildings and the refurbishment of existing buildings. The cost of the projects associated with these closures will be approximately \2.5 million.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: In October the Minister made a promise in this House that if the logistics were not in place the transfer of personnel could be delayed. In the case of Aiken Barracks I understand the facilities in place are not adequate. The Minister is moving 150 personnel into a barracks which is operating at full capacity. Single soldiers are expected to sleep in rooms which are about half the size of a prison cell with no facilities whatsoever. There are no locker facilities or basic washing facilities. I understand that the showering facilities, because of the additional numbers using them, are not adequate. This is serious. I could see it being a case for the Health and Safety Authority and I would be amazed if it did not visit this place in the next few weeks. The Minister made a commitment that people would not be moved until the logistics were in place. Is he aware of the conditions the 150 personnel concerned have to endure until such time as the building in question is finished?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: Deputy Deenihan is correct. I gave that commitment and immediately after giving it in the House I spoke to the Army Chief of Staff and his deputy chiefs. I told them if the project could not be completed by 31 January, I would not get too upset. I communicated that to them and they assured me it could be done but that it was a matter for themselves. I admit the situation in Aiken Barracks, which the Deputy referred to, has not been brought directly to my attention. I am assured by the military that everything is proceeding according to plan and that the immediate work to be done was the provision of extra storage facilities, which was done in all three barracks at a cost of \550,000. There are some capital works, such as the provision of shower rooms and locker rooms, which are taking place as we speak. They will cost approximately \2.5 million. I have told my Department and the military that I want those works to be completed as quickly as possible. I understand they will be completed quite quickly.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: I understand the builder on site had difficulties and a new builder had to be appointed, which is not the fault of the Minister. Can the Minister clarify when he thinks the building will be completed? In the meantime, Army personnel are leaving perfect

453 Priority 4 February 2009. Questions

[Deputy Jimmy Deenihan.] living quarters in Monaghan and the Minister is putting them into accommodation which is totally unacceptable. Can the Minister give us an indication today of when the building will be completed? Can he assure us that the personnel will be in satisfactory living accommodation within a short space of time and will not have to wait for a number of months?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I have had no direct complaints from individuals or PDFORRA, their representative organisation. They may have made complaints to the Department or military but certainly have not come to me. The military or Department have not brought these matters directly to my attention. In view of what Deputy Deenihan said, I will ascertain approximately how long the repair works of the new buildings will take. I am told it should be done in the next four to six weeks but I will get a more precise timescale and communicate it to the Deputy.

Marine Accidents. 100. Deputy Brian O’Shea asked the Minister for Defence when a decision will be made as to whether to proceed with efforts to salvage the Asgard II; if his attention has been drawn to the concerns that the vessel may be further damaged by rough seas and fishing activity in the area; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3654/09]

101. Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if the second survey he commissioned on the possibility of raising the Asgard II has been concluded; if so, his intentions in regard to the vessel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3726/09]

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I propose to take Questions Nos. 100 and 101 together. As I indicated to the House previously, the board of Coiste an Asgard decided in early December last to arrange a second underwater survey of Asgard II. Due to factors outside its control, it was not possible to arrange that survey until last week. However, due to adverse weather conditions, the survey could not be completed successfully, apart from taking a sonar picture which appears to show that the vessel is still in an upright position. A meeting of the board of Coiste an Asgard is taking place this afternoon at which the question of the salvage of Asgard II will be further considered. Arising from that meeting, I expect to get a recommendation from the board within the next day or so as to whether to proceed with a salvage operation. I will then make a decision on the matter immediately

Deputy Brian O’Shea: I am glad to hear a decision is imminent. However, all the Minister knows at this stage, despite it being indicated in early December that there would be a second inspection of the vessel, is that the vessel is in an upright position. What is his advice on the current state of the vessel, given that it is located in very turbulent waters? Bearing in mind the fact that more damage can be done by gill netters and a maritime notice has been posted by the French authorities which indicates the vessel is there, does the Minister have any evidence gill netters are operating in the area? What information does the Minister have on the condition of the vessel? Will the decision he will make be a negative one in terms of salvage?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: Deputy O’Shea is correct. We did promise last December that there would be a second inspection. However, due to weather conditions, it was not possible to organise it until last week and even when it was organised the weather was so bad the normal type of inspection done in the first instance could not be done. Due to the appalling conditions, all that could be done was to take a sonar photograph.

454 Priority 4 February 2009. Questions

I have no information that the condition of Asgard II has deteriorated to any significant degree due to it still being down there. I am aware of the situation regarding gill netters and the fact that a notice was posted by the French authorities. There is nothing to indicate any further damage has taken place. As the Deputy knows, the initial survey showed the vessel was in an upright position and this was confirmed by the sonar photograph taken last week. The board is meeting today and will make recommendations to me having considered the matter thoroughly. I am not bound by its recommendation but I will take it into account seriously when making a final decision. That will happen later this week.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: In view of the fact that the Asgard II is a maritime icon, a national flagship and an ambassador for this country, surely there should have been more urgency on the salvaging of the ship. It is now five months since it sank and we have had two surveys. The Minister must have been able to act and make up his mind on whether it was salvageable or not after the first survey. How many surveys does he need? In the meantime, we have lost a number of weather windows when a salvage operation could have been carried out. Does the Minister intend to salvage the Asgard II? Is the intention to draw down the insurance which, I understand, is approximately \3.8 million and leave the Asgard II at the bottom of the sea? This is important. The Minister is responsible for it and can answer these questions. People are wondering, because of the timeline involved, if the intention is to aban- don the ship entirely and draw down the insurance.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I have not made a final decision on that yet. The fact is that the Asgard is a very popular institution and it is true that it has been a great ambassador for Ireland. The other side of the story, however, is that the ship does not have any historic significance per se as it is only 30 years old. It is called the Asgard but does not have any connection with the original vessel. We must apply hard logic in making these decisions; one cannot make a decision based on emotion. There are a number of difficulties with the salvage operation: first, one must take into account the cost involved; second, one must also take into account what damage, if any, might be caused to the ship during the salvage operation; and, third, if the ship is salvaged in a fairly undamaged state and it can be repaired, one must carefully examine the cost. We must therefore take all those factors into account. I did not recommend that a second survey take place. The first survey took place to ascertain the condition of the ship in so far as it could be ascertained. That survey confirmed that the ship was upright and did not appear to have been substantially damaged. The board of the Asgard determined that there should be a second survey, I presume to check if any deterioration had occurred in the meantime. It took a while to organise that. It could not be organised until last week due to poor weather conditions. Divers can only examine the site if weather conditions are favourable. Even when they dived to the vessel they found they could not undertake a proper survey, but just took a sonar photograph. That is in the past, however, and the board of the Asgard is meeting this afternoon and will make a recommendation to me on what it thinks should be done. I will of course take that recommendation into account.

Deputy Brian O’Shea: I take on board much of what the Minister has said. It is a question of where we will go from here. Even if the vessel is raised, its reconstruction will take a long period, so what will the Minister do to provide a temporary replacement training vessel? If it is decided not to salvage the Asgard, what will the Minister do about providing a replacement vessel? I very much hope that the Asgard can be salvaged and I look forward to the decisions that are about to be taken in that regard.

455 Priority 4 February 2009. Questions

[Deputy Brian O’Shea.]

Is there any further information on the cause of this accident? Does the Minister expect that the survey or the eventual raising of the vessel will shed a great deal more light on that?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: Deputy O’Shea has posed three questions. First, no matter what happens we will need a replacement if we are to have a sail training season from May to September- October. On my instructions, the board of the Asgard is actively pursuing the question of a replacement. It has examined a number of possible replacement vessels with a view to leasing one for the season at least. I have asked the board to report back to me at the end of the month on that matter. Therefore it is determined that the sailing season will take place from May to September-October and a replacement vessel will have been identified within a short space of time. Second, Deputy O’Shea asked what will happen if we decide not to salvage the Asgard.If we do not salvage it, we will have the \3.8 million insurance money which we will use towards the cost of a replacement vessel. That is our intention if we do not salvage the Asgard. Third, the Deputy will be aware that the relevant authority is investigating the cause of the accident. It is a statutory authority and we do not have any access, but we have the right to ask them what stage they are at. That is the only right we have and as late as a few days ago they told us that they had not yet completed their investigation. That is all I know about that. Of course the Deputy is right in that if the vessel is salvaged, I imagine it will certainly throw light on what happened. It will certainly show the full extent of the damage.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: Judging by the tone of the Minister’s initial response I am afraid the Asgard is doomed to remain at the bottom of the sea. I certainly hope that is not the case, however, if it is intact as the Minister’s survey said it was. Can the Minister indicate how much it will cost to salvage the vessel, as well as the cost of a replacement vessel? I think the latter could be in the region of \9 million to \10 million. If the Minister is looking for a new vessel, the Jeanie Johnston has a proven track record and was built as a training ship. If it comes to that, it would provide an ideal opportunity as the Jeanie Johnston could be used temporarily. In this time of fiscal rectitude, it might be the solution for the future.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I would advise Deputy Deenihan not to take any interpretation from my tone. I am trying to remain neutral in this matter and am awaiting a report from the board. I will communicate with the Deputy as soon as I make a decision.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: The Minister should be leading.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: One does not have a dog and bark oneself. We get advice from the board. I can only give a rough estimate of the salvage cost due to the way the system operates. When the salvage operation is commissioned, from the time they start mobilising, one is paying for it. Even if a salvage operation were to take place, our advice is to delay it for a while until the weather improves. There is no point in having the job mobilised and be paying by the day, while the weather prevents the salvage team from working. I have been told that the general figure is in the order of approximately \2 million. The cost of a replacement vessel varies. My advice is that it would not cost in the order of what Deputy Deenihan mentioned.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: The figure was mentioned in some newspaper.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: We will see in due course. I know there are some objections to using the Jeanie Johnston. It has been suggested as a replacement vessel for the next sailing season with a view to using it as a permanent replacement for the Asgard. There have been a number

456 Priority 4 February 2009. Questions of objections to that, however. I have asked the Department to give that realistic consideration. It may well be that the Jeanie Johnston will be used as a replacement, which would give us an opportunity to evaluate it in the event of not raising the Asgard. That will depend on what other options come to light.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: The Minister will need something temporary in the meantime anyway.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: Yes. As I said to Deputy O’Shea, we will have something in the meantime, and the Jeanie Johnston is one of those options.

Defence Forces Representative Associations. 102. Deputy Brian O’Shea asked the Minister for Defence his views on the call made at its recent annual conference that PDFORRA should be allowed to join the Irish Congress of Trade Unions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3655/09]

Deputy Willie O’Dea: The position is that under the terms of the Defence (Amendment) Act 1990, the Defence Force representative associations are prohibited from being associated with, or affiliated to, any trade unions or any other body without the consent of the Minister. Accordingly, the representative associations, RACO and PDFORRA, cannot be affiliated to ICTU at present. A similar arrangement applies to the Garda Sı´ocha´na representative associations. The basis for the prohibition is that it would be inappropriate to apply the provisions of the Industrial Relations Act 1990 to members of the Defence Forces. The taking of any form of industrial action is felt to be irreconcilable with military service. As has been done in the past, the Defence Forces may be called on to contribute to maintaining vital services in times of industrial action. The potential for serious difficulties could arise in these circumstances if the associations were affiliated to ICTU. However, a number of mechanisms have been put in place through the Defence Forces conciliation and arbitration scheme to compensate for the prohibition on affiliation to ICTU. These provide the representative associations with structures and processes which enable them to make representations and negotiate on behalf of their members. In addition, a framework exists which facilitates the associations in engaging with the official side in talks parallel to those taking place between the social partners at national level. This parallel process was operated in respect of the discussions at national level on the framework for a pact for stabilisation, social solidarity and economic renewal over the past weeks.

Deputy Brian O’Shea: I am not quite sure whether the Minister said that this can happen with his consent — in other words, that PDFORRA can be affiliated to ICTU. If there is a will to do something, a legislative way can be found to do it. What is wrong with a situation, as sought by PDFORRA, whereby there would be no agenda for industrial action or to subvert the State in any way, but representatives of PDFORRA could take part with ICTU on an information basis? In that way they would be better informed for their members and could make a better input for them. This would be against the background of being prohibited from doing anything that would subvert the State or involve PDFORRA members in industrial action. We need to move with the times here and I put it to the Minister that it is not an unreasonable request to be allowed affiliation in that context. If the Minister really wants it, a way can be found to do it. The Minister will not meet any obstacles from the Labour Party in that regard.

457 Priority 4 February 2009. Questions

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I appreciate what the Deputy has said. The difficulty to date is that it is felt to be inappropriate and that it might be a question of divided loyalties. For example, 2,000 members of the Defence Forces were recently trained to step into the prisons in the event of a threatened prison officer strike. It is felt there might be a conflict of interest in such a situation as they might be affiliated to ICTU, but be used, as it were, to undermine a strike by another section of the public sector. The same thing applies to the Garda Sıóchańa. With regard to admitting the military to the industrial relations structure, we have been to the forefront of Europe where it is acknowledged, by PDFORRA and more widely, there are excellent mechanisms in place whereby PDFORRA and RACO can make their case to the appropriate authorities. There is also the parallel mechanism which enables them to represent themselves at social partner level. PDFORRA would be the first to admit, and has claimed in my presence at various conferences, that it has gained much from that process. The defence organisation has gained too as a result of closer partnership, co-operation and interaction with PDFORRA and RACO. The issue of membership of ICTU has been put forward a number of times. It does not apply, as yet, for the Garda Sıóchańa. If there was to be a change, therefore, I would have to talk to my colleague, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who has the right to decide on whether the Garda Sıóchańa should become affiliated with ICTU. This request has not been put to me formally since the PDFORRA conference last year. If it wants to come back to me on the matter, I am prepared to look at the situation. To be honest, I do not see how the PDFORRA members are disadvantaged in any way by not being affiliated to ICTU. They do not seem to see a disadvantage either.

Deputy Brian O’Shea: I accept the Minister’s good will in the matter and his willingness to see the situation move forward as far as is practicable. I understand he suggests the door is open for PDFORRA to make an appropriate application to him, that he will look on it as favourably as possible and will seek to facilitate its request in so far as he can. If changes are required, the Minister should, having consulted with PDFORRA, consult his colleague, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, to see how this agenda can be moved forward. The fact we are to the forefront in Europe is welcome, but there is a further distance to be travelled to arrive at a more satisfactory agreement or arrangement on PDFORRA.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: If the request comes to me again, I will consider it afresh. I could not see the change being made in isolation. In other words, I cannot see a situation whereby we would let the military avail of the facility while the Garda is prevented from doing so, because the reasons it is not regarded as appropriate for one organisation are the same reasons for the other. However, if the request comes to me again, I will examine it afresh and consult with my colleague the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

Military Medical Services. 103. Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if he has satisfied himself with the resources being provided to the medical corps within the Defence Forces in view of the fact that a large number of the sick days being taken by soldiers are due to delays in waiting to attend consultancy appointments and delays in being assessed by medical boards; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3727/09]

Deputy Willie O’Dea: Military medical services and their facilities exist to maintain the health of the Defence Forces and to support them in operational and overseas activities. The focus of

458 Priority 4 February 2009. Questions the military medical service is on primary care, occupational medicine, acute trauma management, preventative medical programmes and field medical training. A key issue in the provision of medical services to the Defence Forces has been the shortage of medical officers, namely doctors, in the medical corps. The services of civilian medical practitioners are used to provide back-up to the medical corps in ensuring the primary health care requirements are met. The difficulties with the recruitment of medical officers have endured for some time, despite the concerted efforts of my Department and the Defence Forces. The numbers attracted to work in the Defence Forces have served only to address natural wastage. The pay and allowances of doctors and dentists were increased substantially in consultation with the Minister for Finance. In addition, the Defence Forces have undertaken an intensive recruitment campaign. The results of both of these initiatives have been disappointing. Apart from the issue of the numbers of medical officers, a review of the provision of medical services, in association with the representative associations, is ongoing as part of the modernisation agenda for the Defence Forces. In view of the complexity of the challenge facing the Defence Forces in this area, I decided to engage consultants to make recommendations on the best means of meeting the medical requirements of the Defence Forces. The consultancy is focusing on the sustainable provision of the relevant medical expertise and services to the Defence Forces. PA Consulting was awarded the contract for the medical consultancy. I eagerly await receipt of the report and assure the House that following consideration of the recommendations, I will publish the report and engage with all of the key stakeholders with regard to its implementation. I understand that in referring to consultancy appointments, the Deputy is referring to appointments with medical officers of the Defence Forces medical corps. Improvements in the provision of medical services will contribute to ensuring that absences due to sickness in the Defence Forces are kept to a minimum. My Department is addressing the issue of sick leave arrangements more broadly in tandem with the consultancy. A review group representative of my Department, the Defence Forces and the representative associations has been established to ensure that military sick leave arrangements are the most appropriate and in line with current best practice. Notwithstanding the current situation, I assure the House that Defence Forces personnel requiring medical treatment are getting the care they need.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: Will the Minister clarify, if the medical service is adequate and he is satisfied with it, why 135,000 sick days were taken last year by just 20% of Defence Forces personnel? Does the Minister agree this is, in most cases, because of the absence of a proper and well-resourced medical corps for the Defence Forces? A soldier on sick leave may have to wait for weeks, or months in some cases, before he or she can access the medical board to certify fitness to return to service. I point out to the Minister that, as reported recently in the newspapers, these sick days are confined to approximately 20% of the Defence Forces. This is a major issue. I am aware the Minister has appointed consultants whose report we have been awaiting for approximately a year. It is amazing they are taking so long to come up with recommendations. This looks bad for the Army and the Defence Forces. It is unfair that those people who want to return to work cannot, in many cases, get treatment or clearance from the medical board. The Minister may not be aware that a member of the medical board cannot have seen or treated any of these people previously or he or she is ruled out of being on the board. Is the Minister aware or concerned about this problem? Apart from waiting for the consultants’ report, what is he going to do about it?

459 Priority 4 February 2009. Questions

Deputy Willie O’Dea: Deputy Deenihan asked if I was satisfied the current service is adequate. A number of issues are involved. First, it is adequate. Any soldier who needs primary care will get it. I agree there is a shortage of doctors in the Army, but we have an arrangement, as the Deputy will be aware, with civilian doctors who step into the breach. That has been the established position for many years. I reiterate that any soldier who needs immediate medical treatment will receive it within the same timescale available to any other person in the country. I agree there were 135,000 sick days last year. This works out at approximately 12.99 sick days per individual. My advice is that while this is a large number it is not wildly out of line with the rest of the public sector. This gives me some satisfaction because the nature of military duties means that a minor injury which might not prevent somebody from work- 3 o’clock ing in an office might prevent him or her from undertaking military duties in view of the consequent risk. While a total of 12.99 sick days per person is not grossly out of line with the rest of the public sector, nevertheless there is room for improvement and I take this point.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I want to allow a brief supplementary question.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: Deputy Deenihan asked me a question about the medical board and I will answer it.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: The figure for sick days is out of line. With regard to sick days, the figures I have show that the average in the public sector is 3.5 whereas in the Army it is 13. The nature of being involved in a military force is different from being involved in the Garda Sı´ocha´na or other occupations. The training is very physical, much time is spent outdoors and the people face challenging situations. This is why they need adequate medical backup. There is a fundamental failure in our service to our Defence Forces which is reflected in the number of days spent on sick leave. People who do not want to be on sick leave cannot get treated or be seen by consultants or the medical board. It is serious and the Minister must deal with the matter as soon as possible and not wait for a consultancy report which may not come out for another year given the way consultancy reports are finalised.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: According to the official script I received from the Department, sick leave in the Defence Forces is not significantly out of line with the range across the public service and this is the information on which I am relying.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: It is wrong.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I do not accept for one second the contention that there is extra sick leave in the Defence Forces because people cannot see a doctor quickly. People in the Defence Forces can get treatment for primary medical conditions and see a doctor as quickly as anybody else. Even though we do not have sufficient doctors in the Army there is a very good arrangement between the Army and civilian doctors who provide their services.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: What about the consultants and the medical board?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: So far as the consultant’s report is concerned, I concede that I expected it by the end of last year. It has not arrived. I asked about it again today and I expect to have it within the coming weeks. I understand it was ready but was held back to make improvements which is fair enough. With regard to medical boards, I accept the point that there are delays due to the small number of doctors we have and the fact that they are geographically spread. As Deputy

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Deenihan rightly stated, neither of the two members of the medical board can have seen the person previously.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: Can this be reduced to one and can ex-Army doctors be used?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: We are examining urgently a way to speed this up. The minimum period is 56 days but it is running well beyond this in some cases.

Other Questions.

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Army Barracks. 104. Deputy Ulick Burke asked the Minister for Defence if it is planned to close further barracks and posts; if contingency plans are being prepared for the implementation of possible future decisions to close individual barracks or posts and transfer the units and personnel concerned to other locations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3611/09]

Deputy Willie O’Dea: The closure of barracks and the consolidation of the Defence Forces formations into a smaller number of locations is a key objective of the White Paper on Defence. The dispersal of personnel over an extended number of locations is a major impediment to essential collective training. It also imposes increased and unnecessary overheads on the Defence Forces in terms of barrack management, administration, maintenance and security. The consolidation process is designed to facilitate higher training standards, while also freeing up under-utilised resources and personnel for operational duties. The development and increased capability of the modern Defence Forces, when taken together with the improved security situation along the border, removed the rationale for having seven barracks and posts along the border and provided the opportunity for consolidation of units in a smaller number of locations. In framing the 2009 budget the Government, therefore, decided to reduce the number of army barracks to bring it more into line with operational requirements of the Defence Forces and to achieve economies of scale. My Department and the Defence Forces continually review Defence Forces requirements in relation to barracks, infrastructure and other military installations. While further consolidation is desirable from an operational and training perspective, it will be important to let the most recent changes bed down. As such, there are no immediate plans for further barrack closures.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: Does the Minister agree that there should be an agreed format in consultation with PDFORRA and RACO for the orderly closure of barracks if such closure is decided? Let us face it, the White Paper suggests a number of barracks may have to be closed. An orderly approach was not taken in the announcement of recent closures.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I have no difficulty with Deputy Deenihan’s suggestion. The particular closures we are discussing and which have just taken place were part of a budget announcement and it is not permissible to discuss aspects of the budget in advance so we can prepare for their implementation. This was the difficulty.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: Surely the fact that the principle is in the White Paper means it need not have been announced in the budget.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: It was decided as part of the budget process. If further barracks closures take place it would be preferable if it were decided outside the budgetary process so

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[Deputy Willie O’Dea.] advance consultation could take place. However, it could not take place in this case because it was part of a budgetary process.

Deputy Brian O’Shea: It strikes me that in the context of the cuts indicated between 2009 and 2013 some discussion must have taken place with regard to further barracks closures. The level of cutbacks this year is \2 billion and it will be \4 billion next year and the year after, \3.5 billion the following year and \3 billion the year after that. Is it realistic for the Minister to tell the House that there will not be barracks closures as part of these savings?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: The savings we have decided on at present is almost \2 billion in current expenditure for the remainder of 2009. This is across Departments and includes the pension levy. As Members will have seen in today’s newspapers, the Department of Defence has played its part. The savings contributed by the Department of Defence to this year’s \2 billion, which is all we have discussed, does not include barrack closures.

Deputy James Bannon: How can we believe the Minister today when he came down to the people of Longford two weeks before the election and in the presence of local Deputy, Peter Kelly, pledged that Longford barracks would not close on his watch? With the demand for building land at an all-time low it makes no economic sense to close Longford barracks. Does the Minister understand the trauma and hurt caused to the wives, partners and children of army personnel who served in Longford?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: With regard to funding arising from the disposal of the installations closed down has any determination been made as to what use precisely it will be put? Will it be used to upgrade or improve the Defence Forces or aspects of their activity? Will a portion or all of it go to the Exchequer?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I made that commitment in good faith. The economic situation changed dramatically since then and the Department of Defence was asked to come up with savings. The only way we could make savings under some subheads was to close a number of barracks. This was done along the Border area where the British had closed practically all of their installations in view of the disappearance of the security threat. I understand the difficulty and trauma of the people of Longford which has been communicated to me. I have friends in Longford too. Deputy Bannon may not know it but I have good friends——

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: No kidding.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: Indeed I have.

Deputy James Bannon: The Minister has very few left.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: The Minister used to have.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I hope I still do.

Deputy James Bannon: The Minister has not visited Longford in recent times. There is no welcome for him.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: All the Minister has is photographs and memories.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Allow the Minister to conclude.

462 Other 4 February 2009. Questions

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I passed through it quite recently and a few people waved in a very friendly manner at me.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: They seemed very friendly, Minister.

Deputy James Bannon: It is lucky the Minister is small little man and he was not seen.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: The Minister left very quickly.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: Maybe they were only trying to encourage me to stop. With regard to Deputy Durkan’s question there is an arrangement in the Departments of Defence and Finance that the proceeds from the sale of Department of Defence assets go to the Department of Defence. That has been the case traditionally. We use the proceeds to improve the infrastructure and equipment available to the Army. The money will be coming to us.

Defence Forces Pay. 105. Deputy Joe Costello asked the Minister for Defence if there are plans to impose pay cuts for personnel serving at any level within the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3500/09]

Deputy Willie O’Dea: As the Deputy is aware, the Taoiseach announced yesterday a series of measures taken as part of the implementation of the framework for stabilisation, social solidarity and economic renewal. One measure announced was on the method of achieving savings of \1.4 billion on the public service pay bill. The bulk of the proposed savings will be achieved through a new pension-related payment to be made by public servants. This will apply to members of the Defence Forces. I reflect the Taoiseach’s view, expressed yesterday, that this is regrettable. However, it is clear that strong action is needed to address the economic crisis that now confronts us. The levy will apply across the public service and is not specific to the Defence Forces. The Government appreciates the tremendous work that has been done and is being done by the Defence Forces at home and in many troubled areas of the world and the sacrifices that members and their families make in the cause of international peace. The development and modernisation of the Defence Forces in the past decade comprise one of the big success stories of public sector modernisation. The process of modernisation created great challenges and demands for the Defence Forces. The men and women of the Defence Forces have, over the years, risen admirably to those challenges. They are now being asked, along with other public servants, to raise to the current challenge and I have no doubt they will do so with the same sense of public service they have displayed in the past.

Deputy Brian O’Shea: I take it from what the Minister has said that the levy will apply to all Defence Forces personnel. If so, does he consider it fair that personnel in relatively low- paid ranks will have to pay it? Will it apply to allowances, such as that paid in respect of service in Chad?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I take Deputy O’Shea’s point that many people in the Defence Forces are not particularly well paid. I will not get into an economic debate about it; suffice it to say the levy applies across the public sector. There are staff in other sections of the public sector who could equally be regarded as not being terribly well paid, yet they must also accept the

463 Other 4 February 2009. Questions

[Deputy Willie O’Dea.] levy. As the Deputy knows, it is being applied according to a sliding scale such that it rises as one goes up the salary scale. The levy will apply to all members of the Defence Forces. On the question of allowances, I am aware that allowances for serving overseas are not taxable. Whether the pension levy applies to them is still not decided. It will be a matter for discussion by the Government and it will be clarified when the legislation to implement the levy on contributory pensions is introduced in the House. The simple answer to the Deputy’s question is that I do not know as yet.

Deputy Brian O’Shea: The total reduction for the Department of Defence is to be \140 million, \50 million of which was to be used to make the pay award on 1 September. This award is now not being paid. This \50 million stays with the Exchequer. However, I am not quite clear on a certain figure. The statement on the Department’s position indicates there will be pay and non-pay savings but I find it hard to understand the remark that savings of \15 million will be found across a range of defence expenditure categories, including equipment purchase. There are already headings pertaining to procurement and I therefore want to know the distinction. Could the saving of \15 million also have an impact on pay?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: It will not have an impact on pay. It is an additional \15 million we were asked to find during the course of the recent social solidarity negotiations.

Crime Prevention. 106. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence the extent to which it is intended to enhance coastal surveillance with particular reference to the need to assist in the detection of drugs or people trafficking; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3532/09]

222. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence if it is intended to increase the strength of coastal surveillance and defence with particular reference to the need for increased air and sea rescue services and coastal surveillance to combat drug trafficking; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3793/09]

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I propose to take Questions Nos. 106 and 222 together. The Naval Service comprises the maritime element of the Defence Forces and has a general responsibility to meet contingent and actual maritime defence requirements. The Naval Service operates eight general purpose patrol ships. All eight ships are involved in coastal and offshore patrolling and surveillance for the State in that part of the seas where State jurisdiction applies. The Naval Service provides a fishery protection service in accordance with the State’s obligations as a member of the European Union. The service is tasked with patrolling all Irish waters from the shoreline to the outer limits of the exclusive fishery limits. At present, fishery protection activity accounts for roughly 90% of all Naval Service patrol time. However, as the need arises, Naval Service vessels may be deployed to other duties such as offering aid to the civil power and drug interdiction operations. The current exclusive fishery limits extend to 200 miles offshore and cover an area of 132,000 nautical square miles. The Naval Service currently patrols the entire 200-mile limit and period- ically patrols beyond it to protect specific fisheries. These patrols are carried out on a regular and frequent basis and are directed to all areas of Irish waters as necessary. The number of patrol vessels on patrol in Irish waters at any one time varies between three and eight. The Naval Service is committed to having at least three vessels on patrol within the Irish exclusive

464 Other 4 February 2009. Questions economic zone at any one time. Naval Service patrols are complemented by assistance provided by the Air Corps. The Air Corps maritime squadron carries out aerial surveillance of territorial waters using the two CASA maritime patrol aircraft. The Irish Coast Guard has overall responsibility for the provision of maritime search and rescue services within the Irish search and rescue region. In accordance with the roles assigned to them by Government in the White Paper on Defence, the Defence Forces are committed to providing support to the civil authorities, including in regard to search and rescue operations. In this regard, the Naval Service and Air Corps provide support to the Coast Guard as the need arises and within their available capability. Responsibility for the prevention of drug trafficking and people trafficking rests primarily with the Revenue Commissioners and An Garda Sıóchańa, respectively. However, the White Paper on Defence provides for a security role for the Naval Service and the Air Corps to assist and support the civil authorities in this most important work. Government measures to improve law enforcement in regard to drugs, including the establishment in 1993 of a joint task force involving An Garda Sıóchańa, the Customs Service and the Naval Service, have helped to maximise the effective use of Naval Service resources in combating drug trafficking. The Air Corps provides air support and, on occasion, carries the Customs National Drugs Team in an observational capacity for the purpose of monitoring vessels suspected of drug trafficking and other illegal activities. There is close co-operation between the civil authorities and the Naval Service and the Air Corps in discharging this important mission.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Does the Minister agree that, in the present economic downturn, assistance of the civil power by the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps is required more than ever? Does he not agree that it would be a good idea to ascertain the means by which the backup service might be enhanced, having regard to previous successes in this area and the likelihood of a greater threat in this area in the future?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I do not foresee any diminution of the service we are providing. On the enhancement of coastal surveillance, the Deputy will be aware I am doing my best at Government level to obtain replacement vessels for the Naval Service that will be more effective than some of those used at present. This, in itself, will certainly enhance the service.

Deputy Brian O’Shea: In the context of the considerable savings being sought at present, is there not a case for a much more integrated approach in regard to the effort of the Defence Forces, Customs and Excise and Garda Sı´ocha´na to combat the drugs problem? Many in the fishing industry in Ireland contend there is not sufficient or effective surveillance of vessels fishing illegally in our territorial waters. I hear this quite frequently. I know the Minister has a specific role, which he has outlined. Is it not about time the relevant Ministers got together to formulate a plan that makes maximum use of resources and improves co-ordination in coming to terms and effectively dealing with the importation of drugs into this country? All the available anecdotal evidence indicates that far more drugs are coming into this country than are being detected. In many ways it appears Ireland is being used as a landing place for drugs to be moved on to places elsewhere in the European Union. What evidence does the Minister have that this is the case, anecdotally or otherwise? I remain to be convinced that we are using and co-ordinating our resources to best effect to combat what is the major scourge and social problem in our country.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I accept what Deputy O’Shea said. It was decided in the early 1990s to set up a joint task force comprising the Revenue Commissioners, who have primary responsibility in this regard, the Naval Service and the Garda Sı´ocha´na. When intelligence is received

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[Deputy Willie O’Dea.] on a possible drug importation into the country, the task force gets together to monitor the situation, to prevent the drugs coming in and hopefully to arrest and successfully prosecute the people responsible. There is a view that we would detect more drugs if we had more ships. That is basically correct. Nevertheless, if one looks at the matter logically, taking into account the length of our coastline and the area covered by the exclusion zone, no matter how many ships we had we would still not be able to detect all the drugs coming into this country. Currently, the system is intelligence-led. When intelligence comes in, the task force is put together and everything follows on from there. I am always open to new suggestions if Deputy O’Shea has any specific proposals on further integration and co-ordination.

Deputy P. J. Sheehan: Is the Minister satisfied he has sufficient manpower in the Customs and Excise and the Garda? Is he satisfied also that he has sufficient facilities for those two groups of people to monitor the huge south-west Cork coastline, which is the targeted zone for the importation of drugs? In reply to a parliamentary question on Wednesday, 26 November 2008, the Minister indicated that the Maritime Analysis and Operations Centre-Narcotics, based in Lisbon, is designed to tackle smugglers bringing drugs from Europe, Latin America and West Africa? The Minister informed me in that reply that the centre is operated by seven countries, namely, Ireland, the United Kingdom, Portugal, France, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy is giving information rather than asking for it.

Deputy P. J. Sheehan: No.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: He is being encouraging.

Deputy P. J. Sheehan: I want to know how effective is the Maritime Analysis and Operations Centre that was set up in Lisbon on 25 July 2007. How is it operating? Is the Minister satisfied that we can now detect all the illegal importations of drugs into this country? Drugs are the scourge of humanity and they will be the scourge of this country unless they are curbed.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I do not disagree with much of what Deputy Sheehan is saying. I am satisfied with the sufficiency of manpower and facilities to patrol not only the south-west Cork coast, but the coast generally. I am satisfied also that the best possible use is being made of the existing facilities and that the customs officers and the Coast Guard in particular are doing a tremendous job. Of course, if we had more personnel and greater facilities we could do more. There is only so much personnel and facilities one can afford at any one time, but I do not know of any country in the world that could not use even more resources in the fight against drug trafficking. The centre in Lisbon was, as Deputy Sheehan indicated, established on 25 July 2007, which is just more than a year and a half ago. The information I have is that it is operating well and is making a significant difference. In reply to another question, I do not think it is possible to detect every attempted importation of drugs but I am told that the centre is making a significant difference and that will be reflected in future years.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We are well over time. I will take a final supplementary question from Deputy Deenihan.

466 Other 4 February 2009. Questions

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: Will the Minister clarify whether the Naval Service can only get involved under the direction of either the Revenue Commissioners or the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform? If the Naval Service is suspicious that a yacht or other vessel may be carrying drugs, is it not possible for it to get involved without direction? Yesterday, the Taoiseach indicated there would be cutbacks in defence spending such as on equipment. He was not precise about the effects. Will that affect the acquisition of a replacement Naval Service vessel which, as the Minister is aware, is critical?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: As I already outlined, the position is that when something comes to the attention of the Garda Sı´ocha´na, a task force is put together involving the Naval Service.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: But it cannot operate independently.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: No. What happens if something comes to the attention of the Naval Service is that it contacts the Garda Sı´ocha´na and takes direction from it. That is my understanding of how the system operates. Regarding the \15 million to which Deputy O’Shea adverted earlier, that will not affect our programme of Naval Service vessel replacement. We are evaluating tenders on the replacement of those ships and that will be completed shortly. It will be a decision of the Government as to whether we can order new ships at that point. That was the original decision. I have to go back to Government on that.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: In view of the importance of this question, I will allow a final brief supplementary question from Deputies O’Shea and Durkan.

Deputy Brian O’Shea: I do not wish to give the impression that I do not believe good progress has been made. I do not have any illusions about anything close to all shipments coming into the country being intercepted. I recall reading that on the south coast of England local people were employed to walk the coastline because they would be able to identify any strange ships, whereas a stranger would not be able to differentiate between yachts, which is the type of vessel that blends in. To the best of my recollection that was a customs operation. In addition to the Naval Service resource, the Minister has access to military intelligence, which rightly is highly regarded. The Minister made the point that the big seizures have been intelligence-led and that is the most economic and efficient way of doing it. To what extent is military intelligence involved in this process in regard to human trafficking in addition to drugs?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Arising from his earlier reply, does the Minister agree that in the context of the policing of the large and pivotal coastline in a European context that it might be effective to increase air surveillance, which can cover a greater distance and has been proven in other areas? Will the Minister also indicate the extent to which GPS can be utilised in the fight against people and drug trafficking, which is being done in a number of other jurisdictions, especially in Latin America?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: Regarding Deputy O’Shea’s question, military intelligence is involved but I do not know to what extent. I do not know what percentage of its time is allocated to people trafficking or drug trafficking. It puts a heavy focus on internal security of the State, as the Deputy is aware, in regard to members of foreign-based terrorist groups in particular.

Deputy Brian O’Shea: Firearms are also being brought in with some of the drug shipments.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I appreciate that.

467 Other 4 February 2009. Questions

[Deputy Willie O’Dea.]

With regard to Deputy Durkan’s comments on air surveillance, the navy can get involved in one scenario outside the structure of a task force. The CASA aircraft occasionally carry members of the drug teams in an observational capacity to monitor and so on. I cannot disagree that if we had sufficient resources, more air surveillance would be useful.

Bullying in the Workplace. 107. Deputy Olwyn Enright asked the Minister for Defence if, in view of the recently published second report of the independent monitoring group, he has satisfied himself with the progress that has been made by the Defence Forces in the areas of bullying, harassment and sexual harassment; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3612/09]

146. Deputy Joe Costello asked the Minister for Defence if he will make a statement on the recently published second report of the independent monitoring group in regard to human resource management and workplace culture within the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3495/09]

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I propose to take Questions Nos. 107 and 146 together. I was pleased to launch the second report of the Independent Monitoring Group, IMG, on 17 December last. I would like to especially thank Dr. Doyle, the members of the IMG and all the other parties, both within and beyond the Defence Forces, who contributed to the completion of this comprehensive and timely report. The IMG was established in May 2002 by the then Minister for Defence to oversee the implementation of recommendations arising from the Doyle report, the Challenge of a Workplace. The first report of the IMG, Response to the Challenge of a Workplace, was presented in September 2004. The 2004 recommendations placed emphasis on improving human resource management and workplace culture, including dealing with the issues of bullying, harassment and sexual harassment. Four years later, the second report of the IMG provided a systematic review of progress. The 2008 report highlights the initiatives undertaken by the Defence Forces in the area of human resource management and workplace culture since 2004. The report confirms that the culture of the Defence Forces organisation is evolving positively and notes that the recorded number of incidents of unacceptable behaviour is low. In 2008, the IMG reported a high level of awareness among military personnel of the cen- trality and challenges of human dignity in the mission and culture of the Defence Forces. This was particularly evident in the focus group research at home and overseas. The group reported that the message had percolated that bullying or harassment is not tolerated in the Defence Forces. It commented that the contrast between the readiness of personnel to discuss the issue of unacceptable workplace behaviour four years ago and in 2008 was very marked and concluded that leadership at all levels has communicated the message and heightened awareness. Culture change is not a destination, but rather a journey where every member of the Defence Forces has a role to play. It must be ensured this crucial issue is kept to the forefront in the activities and procedures of the Defence Forces. I am committed to regularly reviewing progress and performance and this is reflected in the programme for Government. The report includes many recommendations to chart the way ahead in continuing to meet the demands for dignity and equality in the military workplace. It contains in excess of 40 specific recommendations. Implementation of these recommendations will require the concerted and combined effort of both the military and the Department. I look forward to being kept informed of progress in this regard. I am satisfied the Defence Forces are on the right

468 Other 4 February 2009. Questions path and they are to be commended for the major progress achieved to date. I am confident this process will be carried forward with enthusiasm and will be further advanced and consolidated in the coming years.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: I welcome the report and I thank Dr. Eileen Doyle and her committee for producing it. It demonstrates clearly the major cultural change in our Defence Forces and we must all acknowledge the progress made. What is the timescale for implementing the various recommendations in the recent report for further improvement? Will another review be conducted in a few years? There is a distinction between training in a battle theatre environment and training in a barracks. I am sure that balance is being maintained because more robust communication is required in battle conditions than in an enclosed barracks. Will the Minister expand on this? Have complaints been made to Army personnel regarding field exercises other than those that occurred in the past in enclosed circumstances in barracks?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I agree with the Deputy regarding the major cultural change and I appreciate his acknowledgement of the progress made. A total of 40 recommendations arise from the 2008 report and, with regard to his question on the timescale, a new report will be made at the end of 2013. I take his point about the difference between the barracks setting and the field setting. There has been controversy about this, which resulted in some communication. The IMG made a number of recommendations to deal with this, which include: new systems aimed at ensuring new entrants understand what constitutes inappropriate behaviour; systems to ensure appropriate and targeted corrective actions are developed and implemented in order that the necessary robust training is completed in an effective manner; and instructors are to be given ongoing support and information to ensure they are sufficiently confident in their knowledge to deal with incidents on the spot. This point has been well made. The IMG has taken it into account and made recommendations to deal with it.

Deputy Brian O’Shea: The Ombudsman for the Defence Forces recently appeared before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence, Equality and Women’s Rights and I was heartened by what she had to say regarding the complaints being made and the culture in the Defence Forces. I asked her whether the culture in the Army was that one should not let the side down whatever one’s complaint and one should keep everything in-house. She indicated there was a healthy culture and people who worked closely together brought their concerns and complaints forward. They must first go through the Army disciplinary system before con- tacting the ombudsman. As the Minister said, the culture is “evolving positively” and we should all rejoice in this, as our Defence Forces are performing to a high level in the context of respect for one another. Will the Minister confirm that is his experience since he took up office? Has there been a significant change in that regard? What is the rate of change? A few years ago, there were reports that led one to believe the level of harassment, including sexual harassment, within the Defence Forces was high but the IMG and ombudsman’s reports do not seem to bear that out.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: When I took on this job in 2004, it coincided with the first IMG report, Response to the Challenge of a Workplace. The change in attitude and culture since has been significant. There is a recognition and realisation throughout the Defence Forces from top to bottom that bullying, harassment and inappropriate behaviour will not be tolerated.

469 Other 4 February 2009. Questions

[Deputy Willie O’Dea.]

As the Deputy acknowledged, two systems are in place. If one is not satisfied with the outcome under the redress of wrongs system, one can appeal to the ombudsman. There is also a conciliation process within the Army under which one can make a complaint of unacceptable behaviour. Both systems have worked well. The establishment of the ombudsman’s office has made an enormous difference. All the work done to make everyone, and not only new entrants, aware of their rights and on the new training for instructors has made a significant difference. The appointment of an equality officer and various other initiatives taken as a result of the initial IMG report in 2004 have made a huge difference in my experience.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: If the Minister has the figures to hand he might advise how many complaints of sexual harassment have been made over the past four years. Could he confirm that the Ombudsman has moved into a new office? There was a big issue recently that the office was not suitable for the service she was providing.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I will let the Deputy have the figures for the past four years. All I have with me are the figures for 2007. I remember asking for the figures for 2008, but they do not seem to have arrived. In 2007 there were seven applications for redress of wrongs. Of these, three were not upheld, one was withdrawn and three cases are ongoing. There were four complaints of unacceptable behaviour, one of which was upheld and three were not upheld. In 2007 the Ombudsman reported that seven complaints were made specifically to her office alleging inappropriate behaviour or bullying. I understand that the OPW drew the Ombudsman’s attention to new premises. I do not believe they proved to be satisfactory. I have again contacted the OPW to facilitate the Ombudsman at the earliest possible opportunity.

Departmental Staff. 108. Deputy Michael Noonan asked the Minister for Defence the number of civil servants from his Department serving abroad and their grades and ranks; the appointments they hold; if it is intended to increase this number; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3602/09]

Deputy Willie O’Dea: My Department has nine civil servants serving with a number of different missions abroad as follows: one principal officer based in Brussels whose responsibilities span the delegation of Ireland to the Political and Security Committee and the liaison office of Ireland for Partnership for Peace, who also acts as a representative to European Defence Agency; an assistant principal officer who works full time as part of the delegation of Ireland to the Political and Security Committee; an assistant principal officer whose responsibilities span the liaison office of Ireland for Partnership for Peace and the European Defence Agency; an assistant principal officer who is a seconded national expert to the European Council, Athena Financing Mechanism; one higher executive officer who serves in the liaison office of Ireland for Partnership for Peace; one administrative officer is attached to EULEX Kosovo mission in the role of administrative reporting officer; one executive officer in the delegation of Ireland to the Political and Security Committee; one clerical officer in the liaison office of Ireland for Partnership for Peace; and one senior first secretary who is on temporary secondment from the Department Foreign Affairs as political adviser to the Chad operation commander of the force, General Nash based in Paris. It is not my intention to increase the number at the present time.

470 Adjournment 4 February 2009. Debate Matters

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: How many military personnel from the Permanent Defence Force are serving abroad?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: From the Permanent Defence Force——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: That is beyond the scope of the question.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: At the moment it is in excess of 500.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: I am referring to those serving in Brussels and Mons.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I will get that information. The number is small. It is in single figures.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: Is it intended to reduce the military personnel serving in both Brussels and Mons and increase the number of civil servants?

Deputy Willie O’Dea: There is no immediately plan to do so. However, I will get the number of military personnel, which is very small.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We have time for one brief supplementary question. There is no point in going on to another question in the remaining 90 seconds.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: The point I am making is that it is very important that military personnel should be aware of what is happening in Brussels and Mons to influence policy and decision making in the Army. It should not be left up to civil servants to serve in Brussels and Mons. Military personnel should be kept involved at all times and there should be no major reduction in the numbers there.

Deputy Willie O’Dea: I accept that.

Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.

Adjournment Debate Matters. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I wish to advise the House of the following matters in respect of which notice has been given under Standing Order 21 and the name of the Member in each case: (1) Deputy Lucinda Creighton — the urgent need for an investigation by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government into the practices in the Dublin City Council planning department which arrived at such an inconsistent decision on planning application 5051/07 (Former Jury’s and Berkeley Court Site, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4), in light of last Friday’s decision by An Bord Pleana´la (PL29S.228512 ); (2) Deputy Alan Shatter — the failure of the Minister for Health and Children to make public the Hynes report, received in her Department on 30 October 2008, which investigated why the McCoy report into allegations of abuse at Brothers of Charity services in Galway took eight years to complete, from 1999 to 2007; (3) Deputies Tom Sheahan and Sea´n Sherlock — the proposed closure of St. Columbanus’s Hospital, Killarney and of Heatherside Hospital, Cork; (4) Deputy Joe McHugh — the future of the Lough Foyle and the Lough Swilly ferry services; (5) Deputy Frank Feighan — to ask the Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if her Department will make necessary changes in the qualifying criteria for CE schemes given that there are many vacancies on CE schemes, in particular in County Roscommon, while FA´ S does not have eligible candidates to fill these vacancies, despite the high rate of unemployment in the county, owing to extremely strict eligibility requirements, including being unemployed and receiving social wel-

471 Adjournment 4 February 2009. Debate Matters

[An Leas-Cheann Comhairle.] fare payment for 12 months; to ask the Tańaiste if she will amend the regulation whereby a person, unemployed for 11 months and offered temporary employment for, for example, two to four weeks is automatically ruled out of qualifying for a CE scheme and is forced to commence again the 12 months unemployment status; to ask the Tańaiste if she is aware there are people due to come off CE schemes in County Roscommon shortly and there are no candidates available to replace them due to the strict guidelines; and to ask the Tańaiste if, in the current climate, she will reduce the unemployment criteria and the 12-month in receipt of social welfare payment clause and ensure if persons get temporary employment during that time they are not automatically disqualified; (6) Deputy Timmy Dooley — the psychological assessment of children with suspected autism in County Clare; (7) Deputy Ciarań Lynch — to ask the Minister for Environment Heritage and Local Government if he will lay before the House the details, including financial implications, of his plans to enable local authorities to lease estates from developers as outlined by the Minister of State in recent days and if he will lay out his programme to spend \20 million in leasing currently idle properties from developers; (8) Deputy James Bannon — the need for the Minister for Health and Children to ensure that after a wait of 12 years a full complement of appropriate services for secondary care facilities is provided under phase 2B of Longford-Westmeath Regional Hospital, Mullingar, County Westmeath, to ensure patient safety and best possible outcomes; (9) Deputy CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín — the need for the Minister for Health and Children to instruct the HSE to respond positively to the call by general practitioners in Counties Cavan and Monaghan for a full independent risk assessment of the safety implications for patients affected by the planned closure of 56 acute medical beds in Monaghan General Hospital and of the GPs’ capacity to provide a safe service in such circumstances, concerns which have led GPs in Cavan-Monaghan to withdraw from HSE planning groups; (10) Deputy Jimmy Deenihan — the arrangements that will be put in place to ensure the continued efficient transport of blood samples on a daily basis for a patient (details supplied) in County Kerry; (11) Deputy Joe Costello — the need for the Tańaiste and Minister for Enterprise and Employment to ensure the FA´ S training, employment and community facilities in Jervis Street, Dublin 1 are not closed down; (12) Deputy Noel J. Coonan — that the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government provide funding for a new fire station facility in Cloughjordan, County Tipperary — an application was first made by North Tipperary County Council in May 2005 — taking into account the extreme and deteriorating conditions at the establishment and consequent health and safety concerns; (13) Deputy Seymour Crawford — the urgent need to have the four hours home help at least returned to an 83 year old County Monaghan person (details supplied), who had her seven hours home help first reduced to four hours per week and has now been further reduced to two hours per week since the 28 January 2009. This lady has no family or relations to support her and depends on her home help and kind neighbours; (14) Deputy Kieran O’Donnell — that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government release the committed funding for the Limerick regeneration project to enable housing, infrastructural and other programmes to commence immediately in order to restore public trust in the project; and (15) Deputy Ulick Burke — to ask the Tańaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- ment to indicate her plans for FA´ S apprentices who have been made redundant by their spon- sors and who cannot find an alternative placement in the current climate. The matters raised by Deputies Tom Sheahan, Seań Sherlock, Timmy Dooley, Jimmy Deenihan and Joe McHugh have been selected for discussion.

472 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Stabilisation of the Public Finances: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by the Minister for Finance on Wednesday, 4 February 2009: That Da´il E´ ireann: — supports the expenditure measures announced by the Government to restore greater balance between revenue and spending; — affirms its confidence in the economic strategy of the Government to restore the economy to growth as soon as possible; and — calls on all sections of our country to follow the lead of the Government and show the social solidarity needed to tackle this unprecedented economic downturn.

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): The great bulk of the saving will come from a new pension-related payment which will be paid by all public servants including Deputies and Senators. Those who have already made a voluntary surrender of salary, among them some Members of the Oireachtas may discontinue that surrender and continue to make their contribution through the new pension payment. For their part the members of the Government have decided to continue with their 10% voluntary surrender in addition to the pension contribution of 9%. We believe that those in positions of leadership in all parts of the country should and must lead by example. The remuneration of politically appointed advisors to the Government will also be adjusted in line with the pension contribution. The payment will be on a graduated scale with the average payment being 7.5% of total earnings. This payment will apply to all elements of the public service pay bill with the exception of employers’ PRSI, including both pensionable and non-pensionable — for example overtime — items. This payment is in recognition of the fact that public service pensions are significantly more favourable than the generality of pensions in the private sector together with the need to reduce net public service pay costs. This change will require new legislation which will be introduced as a matter of urgency. A much smaller component of the total pay-related savings will be achieved through reductions in travelling and subsistence rates and other savings. In addition, the increases provided for under the review and transitional agreement with effect from 1 September 2009 and 1 June 2010 will not now be paid on those dates. Further discussions on these increases will be held in 2011, without prior commitment. This will save a total of \1 billion 2010. The pay-related savings will also apply to local authority staff. To that end, it will be necessary to amend the existing legislation on the local government fund. Again, it is proposed that the necessary legislative amendments will be introduced as a matter of urgency. Public servants paying the new pension contribution will be treated for tax purposes in the same way as those making pension contributions in the private sector. Contributions will be deducted from gross pay by employers before income tax, PRSI and health levies are calculated and as such pension contributions will be effectively relieved of tax at the marginal rate. Flexibility in responding to changing service demands will have to be pursued determinedly. In this context I am establishing a mechanism via the Public Appointments Service and the Commission for Public Service Appointments to facilitate the redeployment of surplus staff in

473 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Brian Lenihan.] several areas and the matching of vacancies at all levels across the civil and public service. The redeployment of staff across different sectors of the public service organisations — for example the Civil Service, local authorities, HSE, and State agencies — gives rise to technical, legal and human resource issues that will require consultation with local management and staff unions. Discussions have already been taking place with relevant Civil Service unions about the redeployment of staff into social welfare offices. I consider it important that the pay-related savings measures across the public service should be implemented as part of the comprehensive national effort to adjust incomes, with the aim of restoring competitiveness in national incomes generally. Let us be clear, this is not about targeting the public service. We are simply asking public servants to make the same adjustment that is taking place across the economy. Savings will be vigorously pursued in all appropriate State payments to individuals, including fees payable to medical and legal professionals. It is possible that the need to engage in consultation with professional interests, and the delays that may ensue which will be kept to a minimum, may limit the scope for securing the full savings we would like in 2009. Here again, I appeal to all sections of our country to put their shoulders to the wheel and share in the national effort to deal with this unprecedented economic downturn. The Government is determined that it and the Oireachtas plays their part in reducing the cost of our democratic and political systems. We aim to achieve substantial savings in 2009 through a range of changes in Government and Oireachtas funding. The Houses of the Oireachtas Commission will be asked to contribute to this process and we invite the co-operation of all political parties and Independents to show clear political leadership across the political system. In this context the approach to foreign visits of Oireachtas committees, the funding of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission and the system for expenses and allowances will be considered. The costs of the offices of Ministers and Ministers of State will also be reviewed. The following supplementary measures are required to realise the full \2 billion. There will be a modest retrenchment on overseas development aid this year in view of our diminishing resources. This still leaves our ODA spending rate among the highest in the world. A small reduction in the early child care supplement to \1,000 per year and a lower maximum age of five years will save \75 million in a full year. A further \140 million is to be pruned from administrative and other spending on staff, advertising, travel, procurement and the like, and a reduction of \300 million across the board in spending on capital will leave our spending rate as a percentage of GNP still over 5% and among the highest in Europe. Within this revised capital envelope, a sum of \150 million is being reallocated — half each — to labour-intensive spending on schools building projects and energy-saving measures, which is being funded from all parts of the capital programme, including education. With falling construction prices, we should be able to maintain a high output of projects even with reduced allocations. Tender prices in a variety of areas such as national roads, schools, higher education and social housing tell a consistent story. We are getting a bigger result from capital funding. Even with reduced allocations, careful and proactive management of capital allocations will enable the priority high-return projects to be delivered. We are already well on track to complete the major inter-urban routes next year. We will continue to invest in public transport. We will continue to expand the commuter Luas network and invest in other suburban rail services such as the Cork-Midleton line, the Kildare line

474 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) upgrade and phase one of the Navan line. We will continue to support the development of the smart economy and direct capital investment in science and technology, foreign investment and indigenous enterprise. The total saving comes to \2,090 million in a full year. This is in addition to the saving of \1 billion in 2010 as a result of not paying the pay deal next year. In announcing these measures, we have focused not just on short term needs, but also on the vital necessity of preparing the ground for economic recovery. We have protected the vulnerable and we have sought to maintain capital spending in real terms and redirected some of it to areas that can protect jobs. We have sought to make a firm start now to keep us off the path of high borrowing and job-destroying tax rises that would cripple us before long. More needs to be done in a planned way in 2010 and 2011 and beyond. The Government’s economic framework published before Christmas provides the guiding light to show the way. We have a competitive advantage in the knowledge and skill base of our people and in our flexibility in responding to change and to challenges. I assure the House that we will use that smart advantage to rebuild and recover under the leadership of this Government which is also actively examining measures in a special Cabinet group to search out opportunities for job creation, to encourage exports, to assist consumers and the retail sector and to promote more vigorous price competition. The fruits of this examination will be announced in the next few months and a stream of decisions will issue from the Government on all these matters. The fiscal position we take this year and next year is of fundamental importance to the future of this country. We need to stabilise and reduce the total amount of our borrowing in a substantial way in this two-year period in order to command credibility among ourselves and in the wider markets which observe us. I am convinced that we can achieve this as a people if we put our shoulders to the wheel, recognise the extent of this problem and address it.

Deputy Richard Bruton: I move amendment No. 2:

To delete all words after “Da´il E´ ireann” and substitute the following:

“— accepts the need to reduce borrowing in 2009 by \2 billion, as outlined in the Revised Stability Programme;

— calls for a detailed review and amendment of the measures announced by Govern- ment on 3 February 2009 to secure a fairer balance;

— calls for major reform and restructuring of programmes and agencies to get maximum value for the taxpayer;

— calls for the presentation of a credible five year economic plan; and

— calls for a fresh package of initiatives to address the issues of job loss, competitiveness, credit and new economic opportunities.”

No one can doubt the truth of the Minister’s statement that it is crucial to get our public finances right. Equally we have seen today a serious wake-up call to anyone who is concerned about the future of the economy in that a total of 35,500 extra people have been added to the live register in one month, representing 2% of the private employment workforce. I ask the House to consider if this were to be the situation for another six months, 12 months or 18 months because it is a vista too appalling to consider. This is the reason the Fine Gael amendment to the motion includes a request for a coherent economic plan for the next five years. I cannot accept the reheated stew of measures that

475 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Richard Bruton.] have peppered every document for the past ten years and which the Minister produced before Christmas as the smart economy. This is not squaring up to the crisis we now face, a crisis in which jobs are melting away. I agree we have to look at the opportunities and we must make investments now which will allow opportunities materialise but we also have to look very critically at what is happening in the here and now, at the competitiveness we have lost and its impact on the leaching of jobs. Last night, I described the Government’s programme as announced yesterday as a stool with just one leg and this is the problem. The one leg is the Government’s action on public service pay, predominantly, with a few things tacked on. However, this is not a strategy that will get us out of this situation and I will return to that point. The truth is we now need a serious strategy to look at the loss of jobs. Last night, the Minister talked about electricity price reductions being reviewed some time in the future. We need those reductions to have happened last week and last month. The notion of regulators sitting around and having reviews and waiting is not acceptable. The price that public bodies charge to people competing abroad is a crucial ingredient. We have to pull those prices down at every possible opportunity. We must freeze them and pull them down where we can and this should be a concerted task of Government. We need to see targeted credit measures. I do not for a moment underestimate the gravity of what the Minister is trying to deal with in the banks. However, there is no sign of the targeted credit measures that would get small business going and this is what we are all hearing. I do not underestimate the problems but we have to target credit. Other countries are looking at targeted vehicles to do this, but we are not. I refer to the significance of reskilling but I must ask the Minister if he believes that putting 95% of the funding for this project through FA´ Sis the best way to get a reskilling programme attuned to modern needs. I have grave doubts about this, as do many people. Anti-competitive practices exist in parts of the public sector which the Government has tolerated for years, for example, in the electricity and transport systems. These cannot be tolerated any longer while there is a haemorrhage of jobs in the private sector. In the past, Enterprise Ireland would have considered putting preference shares into companies with viable, long-term plans but who were experiencing temporary difficulties. Is this still a vehicle that Government regards as a means of dealing with export companies going through temporary difficulties? Perhaps the Government should take genuine shareholding in such companies. We have to start thinking about how we protect the crucial element that will keep our economy strong in the long term, that is, jobs in the trading sectors of the economy. All the talk is about some cutbacks in the sheltered sector, which I agree are needed, but we also need to pay attention to the trading sector and deal with it. The country needs confidence now and we need a Government that is plotting a clear course, a Government that is credible and has a road map of actions. There is no other government other than our own that thinks the right action is to announce cuts in the public sector pay bill and which outsources this action to some group chaired by Colm McCarthy, who is no doubt a worthy man, and which will make decisions about delivering efficiency in our system and a Government which outsources action on taxation to some other group. The Government’s job is to govern and the Da´il is here to consider options, and I suggest we have a debate about options, such as how efficiencies can be achieved.

476 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

The Minister knows as well as me that he has persisted with an appalling budgeting system that denies this House any opportunity to scrutinise what is being done. He will not even produce the targets proposed for public spending until three or four months after the Da´il has voted the money. He will not hold anyone accountable for their failure to deliver on those targets when we eventually see them. The budget is blanket voted on budget day which is a complete farce. There is no scrutiny of public spending. That is the reason it has produced these appalling decisions. I will not go into the issue of the electronic voting machines and all the other appalling problems but there is no serious scrutiny in this House. We are not doing our job because Government is now allowing us do it. That is a deep fault line in the way we make decisions about money and it has created the crazy carry-on we see all around us where people who are grossly incompetent in the public service get huge golden hand shakes and walk away. People are furious that is still going on and they do 4 o’clock not see in anything the Minister did yesterday an indication that there is an end in sight to that culture of the cosy group, where Ministers are protected from having to admit that they failed and where senior public servants can deliver only 40% of what they said they would deliver six months ago and get a bonus. They failed to deliver 60% of what they were responsible for and yet they get a bonus under the Minister’s system. The Minister protects that pool of money to give these people bonuses when they are already on a salary of \300,000 or whatever, which are not linked in any way to serious performance targets. The Minister and I know that is the system and it must change. That is the reason people are so frustrated. There will be a backlash against these partial proposals because people do not see the other side of the agenda. They are not eager about paying but they will live with taking pain if they thought it was balanced, that the political system was changing, the highly paid public servants were made earn their money and, if they failed, that there are consequences, and that senior people in the banks, who we now support to a huge extent, equally take the consequences of their bad decisions. If we started to see that in place, people would have find it much more credible that there is a broad based strategy in place but the Minister has only one leg of that stool. There is no reform agenda either in terms of making us more competitive to protect employment or making the system more transparent with regard to the way it spends money and guards every halfpenny of public money in order to get value from it. That is not what is happening in this system. We must get back to that. There was a lucid moment in the Taoiseach’s speech last week when he asked how clearly is the problem understood and how clear is the strategy designed to address it. In responding to the first question he said we should forget about looking back at the past. We must get real. The Minister’s Government has not been implementing good policies that have been ruined by some calamity from abroad. There were deep flaws in the policies that have been pursued. There have been deep flaws in the fiscal policy, in the attitude to property, through the regulatory and Government system, and in public service management and getting results for public money. The system we have been operating is not fit for purpose and unless Government, from the Taoiseach and the Ministers down, admit that and that it must now change, we will not get change. We might get through a few years and get back to the practice but we will be failing the people who elected us to this House. This is a crisis and there must be real change that is much more far-reaching than anything the Minister has suggested. It disappoints me that a clear strategy is not being outlined that is balanced and that addresses the problems we face. The Government invested all its political capital in the discussions with the social partners. I can understand that. It would be welcome to have the social partners backing this measure

477 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Richard Bruton.] but what the Minister has failed to do is convince the members of the public that he has a credible strategy. They do not see it. I do not see it, and I am closer than most to the issue. The combination of a few pages issued by the Department of Finance on the stability programme, a document full of hope but with no time lines produced before Christmas, and what the Minister produced yesterday does not amount to a strategy to get us out of this hole. That is what is sorely missing and is what must be put in place. That is the reason Fine Gael has called for a credible five year economic plan. I accept the Minister has to reduce borrowing by \2 billion in this year but that is not delivered in this measure. The Minister’s figures mention \2.09 billion. He has admitted that \277 million of that will not be realised in 2009. That brings the figure back to \1.7 billion. On top of that there is tax buoyancy——

Deputy Brian Lenihan: The figure is \1.81 billion.

Deputy Richard Bruton: Regardless of the figure, tax buoyancy has to come out of that. If \1.81 billion is taken out of the economy, approximately 25% of that comes out in reduced taxes.

Deputy Brian Lenihan: We factored that into the calculations for——

Deputy Richard Bruton: Where are those calculations? It is appalling that we are having a debate which is tantamount to a revision of the budget and the Estimates. We still do not have any tax forecasts or tables spelling out the tax buoyancy impact, nor do we have any analysis of the new forecast. The Minister has abandoned the forecast he had at the time of the budget and we do not have any analysis of his new forecast for tax or for spending. The few pages published in the depths of a Friday night is all we have seen from the Minister’s Department to give us a revised framework, even for 2009, let alone for 2010 and 2011. There is no credibility in what the Minister is offering. How can we have confidence when his Department, as the Minister said, having failed three times last year to get its tax forecasts right has now produced a new one and we do not even see the basis of the forecast or how it has disaggregated between income tax, VAT and stamp duty? That is not good enough. The Minister cannot come into this House and call this a serious debate about the need to find \2 billion when all the i’s are not dotted and the t’s not crossed. We must see proper analysis to allow us have a mature debate about this and reflect on it. Our job is to criticise, scrutinise and try to get the best from this measure, and I do not see that. We need something that is available in other countries, namely, a fiscal responsibility code where there is independent assessment of the fiscal policy and an obligation on the Minister, if it is going off the rails, to come back into the House and tell us what has gone wrong and the corrective measures that will be introduced. We have not had that in this country and it is about time we introduced it. It appears that the pension levy is riddled with unfairness in the way it is being structured. People on low income derive no pension benefit from the public service pension now. They get their social welfare pension and on co-ordination they get a very small amount of extra benefit yet they will pay the levy at 3%, even though they are on the minimum wage. In key income ranges the rate of the levy goes up and down because of the impact of tax relief. For instance, at \30,000 people pay a 4.6% levy net, at \40,000 it drops to 4.1% and at \35,000 it is 5%. It drops by a full percentage point between \35,000 and \40,000. Many people are in those ranges and having a topsy-turvy system that imposes more burden on the lower paid in

478 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) those ranges does not make sense. We must see the pensions benefit profile to determine if that is fair. If one were to do an actuarial calculation the pension benefit of someone appointed Secretary General is probably 40%. The pension benefit of someone who is a porter in the same office is perhaps 6%. He or she is already paying 6%. The person who is getting the 40% is paying 6%. The Minister is asking the person already paying the full amount to pay an additional 3% and he is asking the person at the top to pay 9% more. There is no equity regarding the pension benefit in the way the Minister is allocating this burden. Calling it a pension levy when it is not related to the pension benefit is very difficult for people to stomach.

Deputy Joan Burton: When I heard the Minister’s offering earlier I was reminded of a song that was often sung when I was a child, God save Ireland said the Heroes. God needs to look kindly on Ireland because what the Minister for Finance offered today and what the Taoiseach offered yesterday is so incomplete and lacking in vision. It is so unsure and uncertain because we have been down this road of adjustment, saving the banks, early budgets, rescue plans and recovery proposals so many times since that night in late September 2008 when the two Brians rushed to save Anglo Irish Bank, Irish Nationwide and the others. With so many rescue bids I have, unfortunately, concluded the lack of a strategy or a clearly thought out programme by the Government will bring this country into a lost zombie decade, reflected in the unemployment figures announced by the Taoiseach this morning. I remind the Minister that last September I proposed the banking rescue should follow the Swedish model.

Deputy Brian Lenihan: The first action the Swedes took was to provide a state banking guarantee and Deputy Burton opposed that.

Deputy Joan Burton: I warned against the Japanese model. In the early 1990s after the Cold War, Japan’s economy was devastated by a burst property bubble with house and land prices tumbling and undermining the property-related assets and loanbooks of many Japanese banks. Rather than encouraging their banks to come clean on their balance sheets and write off their bad debts, the Japanese Government facilitated an asset quality cover-up whereby the bad debts were not written off. The result was that the problems were stored up for the future and multiplied to the point where the banking system all but collapsed under the weight of this unacknowledged toxic debt. The result was Japan’s lost decade. The Labour Party will not commend Fianna Fa´il, or the two Brians, as it leads our young people into another lost decade, based on a Japanese model rescue plan. What the Government delivered today and yesterday is a disgrace. It does not give people hope and confidence for the future. Before lunchtime today, the Taoiseach suggested with the bank recapitalisation programme of \8 billion next week, he would get tough with the banks’ top guys who will see a 25% reduction in their salaries. The top guys in the banks do not earn salaries like public servants. They get compensated in a variety of ways. Their compensation packages have fallen from between \4 million and \6 million to between a mere \1 million and \2 million. We do not know the full details because they are confidential even though we are bailing them out. Is the Minister claiming that the big plan is to reduce these guys’ salaries by 25% to between \750,000 to \1.5 million? Public servants, the nurses, the gardaı´, the teachers, after ten years’ service, earn a basic of \45,000 plus various allowances. Does the Minister expect them to cheer him when they are subject to a 7.5% levy while the bankers’ earnings tumble from \4 million to \1.5 million? On what planet

479 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Joan Burton.] is the Minister living? In America they say, “God bless America”. We need God to bless Ireland to get out of this mess. After the 1929 great crash and the tsunami of 4,000 bank failures across the United States, the then US President, Herbert Hoover, came up with a cunning plan to restore the economic fortunes of the US. He slashed Government spending to balance the books. The result was the Great Depression. After immense human suffering and the enlightened intervention of his successor, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, with some false starts, a path out of the Great Depression was charted for the US. Ireland needs a new deal, not a bum deal like those we have had to listen to yesterday and today with short-sighted spending cuts. We bail out our banks while not providing any hope for credit resuming to small and medium-sized businesses. While the Minister allows the banks to hide the levels of their property loans by one device or another, the size of those loans on their balance sheets will freeze the banks’ genuine capacity to lend or expand the economy. One developer, Mick Wallace, said on “Prime Time” last week that he is not paying interest on his loans. The implication is that his bank is rolling up the interest and capitalising it into the loan. If the Minister is contemplating allowing our banks to do this, does he realise it will take all the resources of the banks and completely kill their capacity for new and fresh lending to small, medium and large businesses employing people? The US President, Barack Obama, has been in office 16 days while the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance have been in office for 273 days. We have had 273 days of indecision, prevarication and steady economic decline. Many of their early days in office were wasted by their baseline desire to help the friends they had made in the build-up of the Celtic tiger property bubble.

Deputy Brian Lenihan: The first step taken by the Swedish Government in its bank rescue plan was to guarantee its banks. Deputy Burton was not prepared to do that last September.

Deputy Joan Burton: I am sorry. The Minister was prepared to do it on an emergency basis with Anglo Irish Bank being the centre of the rescue, not the system. Not only that——-

Deputy Brian Lenihan: The second step taken by the Swedish Government was to nationalise banking institutions. The Deputy should study the facts.

Deputy Mary Coughlan: The Deputy’s insinuations are as preposterous as always.

Deputy Joan Burton: As Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan knew from the minute he stepped into office that there had been extraordinary dealings in the shares of Anglo Irish Bank by one of the largest industrial companies in the States.

Deputy Mary Coughlan: The authorities will deal with that, not Deputy Burton.

Deputy Joan Burton: The Minister also had a weak Financial Regulator. I do not believe he could have eyeballed the office cat in the banks. Yet, the Financial Regulator was asked to eyeball some of the most powerful and richest people in the country to tell them what they were doing did not seem quite right. Deputy Sherlock listened to one bank auditor yesterday at a committee declare that although he was aware of large loans to his bank’s former chief executive, he was not aware what they were. This is crazy stuff and the Minister was knowledge- able about it.

480 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

The Minister will some time soon introduce a further rescue package for the banks. At the same time, in the Dublin West constituency, which we both share, I have a case of a former civil servant married to a garda with a family of four children. They bought a larger house for the family and she gave up her job when she had a fourth child because she could not afford the cost of child care. The current cost of her mortgage is \1,450 per month. From yesterday she is losing money from the child care allowance and her husband and she will have a levy costing them 6.5% to 7% gross, or approximately 4.5% after tax. That is in addition to the extra \2,000 the emergency budget cost them. This is a middle income family living in Blanchardstown in the heart of my constituency and that of the Minister. She is part of the coping classes, those who work all their lives and who do not really blow it on debt. They like a nice holiday and want their kids to go to college. They have the same aspirations as many in this House. She stated: “The very poor have a voice, the very rich do not need a voice, but the middle incomes have no voice because nobody is out to help or assist [her].”

Deputy Mary Coughlan: That is not true.

Deputy Joan Burton: Is it not? I will tell the Ta´naiste——

Deputy Mary Coughlan: There is mortgage interest relief amounting to a couple of hundred euro a month, the cost of utilities will go down and we will ensure, through the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, a reduction in her ESB bill. We are the backbone of everything.

An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Burton, without interruption.

Deputy Joan Burton: I will tell the Ta´naiste how incompetent her Government is.

Deputy Mary Coughlan: Thank God Deputy Burton’s party is not in power anyway. It has no ideas at all.

Deputy Joan Burton: Yesterday the Ta´naiste could not discuss the Exchequer figures because she was so unknowledgeable about the state of the public finances.

Deputy Mary Coughlan: The Deputy should watch it.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy and the Minister should stop the argy-bargy and allow the debate proceed.

Deputy Joan Burton: The Ceann Comhairle very nicely moved in to protect the Ta´naiste then. He will probably do the same now.

Deputy Mary Coughlan: The Ceann Comhairle has advised me——

Deputy Brian Lenihan: The Ceann Comhairle does not protect anybody in this House.

An Ceann Comhairle: I do not.

Deputy Joan Burton: Yesterday he protected the Ta´naiste. She did not know the answer to a basic and very reasonable question.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should proceed.

481 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Mary Coughlan: Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle should remind us of Standing Orders pertaining to the Order of Business, none of which anybody seems to know.

An Ceann Comhairle: To be fair, I am even-handed with everybody.

Deputy Joan Burton: This Government is intent on scapegoating the public sector.

An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputy Burton to withdraw the allegation that the Chair was protecting anybody. It is not true.

Deputy Joan Burton: I apologise deeply and humbly——

An Ceann Comhairle: Good, but the Deputy does not need to be humble.

Deputy Joan Burton: ——to the Chair if I misinterpreted his actions yesterday.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy does not need to be humble at all about it.

Deputy Mary Coughlan: A bit of sincerity would be helpful.

An Ceann Comhairle: All the Deputy must be is sincere.

Deputy Joan Burton: The Ceann Comhairle was every bit as nice to me as he was to the Ta´naiste.

An Ceann Comhairle: I will continue to be and always am.

Deputy Joan Burton: Thank you. This Government is scapegoating the public sector. Public sector reform, pay and pensions are certainly part of the solution but the public sector did not create the property crash. It did not create the tax breaks that the then Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Cowen, continued and expanded to keep the bubble growing. The public sector did not create the crash; Fianna Fa´il and Fianna Fa´il-led Governments first blew the bubble to ridiculous proportions, which caused the crash.

Deputy Mary Coughlan: What of the extra resources and services we provided? What about them?

Deputy Joan Burton: When the Government wants to scapegoat the public sector, it should think again. In my own constituency, approximately a quarter of the population are immigrants. If it were not for our teachers, operating under quite difficult circumstances in my constituency and that of the Minister of State, Deputy Trevor Sargent, we would not have been able to deal with the integration of a significant number of immigrants who were attracted to Ireland by roadshows by the former Taoiseach and former Ta´naiste, Deputy Harney, in places like South Africa. They encouraged people to come to Ireland.

Deputy Mary Coughlan: We needed them.

Deputy Joan Burton: The Government should not scapegoat the public sector, which is a very soft target in this case.

Deputy Trevor Sargent: Nobody is scapegoating those people; those are the Deputy’s words.

Deputy Joan Burton: The sector needs reform, as well as the payments system. In terms of reform, what we need is a fresh Government and a fresh start for the country.

482 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Mary Coughlan: Is that the Deputy’s contribution — a call for a general election?

Deputy Joan Burton: My contribution has been consistently informed by trying to find out the facts——

Deputy Mary Coughlan: Innuendo and accusations.

Deputy Joan Burton: ——about our economic position. I am angry that the Government has nothing positive to offer the more than 300,000 people now on the dole, bar a very small expansion of training places. I noticed that earlier this morning the Ta´naiste indicated she had solved the apprenticeship crisis.

Deputy Mary Coughlan: Yes, I provided money for redundant apprentices.

Deputy Joan Burton: She should come out to visit my constituency and that of the Minister. There are young boys, in particular, aged 17, 18 and 19 who were hoping to start an apprenticeship. The Ta´naiste is talking about rescuing the poor guys becoming unemployed, which is good, but what about the army of kids who thought they would become apprentices later this year? Where are their opportunities? They are looking at the dole queue.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy has exceeded her time. We must move on.

Deputy Joan Burton: Not only that but we have 26,000 graduates coming out this year — the best and brightest that we have invested in. The Government’s message is one of almost no hope for them. The Ta´naiste is a disgrace.

Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Deputy Mary Coughlan): I will not rise to some of the derisory comments which are personal in nature. In due course and at the next election we will deal with them. The reality of the current global economic downturn has again been brought home to us with confirmation that the number of people now on the live register stands at just below 328,000. The rate at which this figure has increased over such a short period of time is disturbing and I assure the House that the Government is determined to do all in its power to tackle the rise in numbers of people finding themselves without work or with reduced working weeks. Our approach in tackling the issue is multi-layered and centres on restoring our public finances, protecting employment across the economy, retraining those without work, and attracting new investment and jobs to our shores. In my contribution to last week’s debate in the House, I highlighted the importance of restoring competitiveness to our economy and placed particular emphasis on addressing the issue of energy costs. In that regard I welcome the confirmation from my colleague, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, yesterday that he has asked the Commission for Energy Regulation for an immediate review of energy pricing and an analysis of options for bringing down electricity and gas prices for householders and businesses. Such action sends out a clear signal that in Government we are addressing issues of real concern to employers who need to get costs down in order to compete effectively in the global marketplace, resulting in more jobs being protected across our economy. It is one example of the many steps we are in the process of taking to best protect the long-term sustainability of our economy. One other such step was yesterday’s announcement by the Taoiseach aimed at stabilising our public finances and reducing Government spending. The decisions taken were not easy but they are an example of the tough decisions that have to be made to bring the economy back

483 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Mary Coughlan.] on track. In doing so, however, I want to assure the House that we will continue to target expenditure and tax measures at those most able to bear the cost, and that we will continue to support those who are most vulnerable in our society. In the time available to me this afternoon, I want to concentrate on some of the steps we are taking to ensure that those without a job can get reskilled and back in to the jobs market with the skills necessary for the jobs that our economy will create over the coming months and years. I want to focus specifically on our reactivation efforts. The Department of Social and Family Affairs and FA´ S are working closely to respond quickly to the rise in unemployment. In particular, FA´ S employment services, together with local employment services, are putting in place measures designed to provide increased capacity for the rise in referrals from the Department of Social and Family Affairs and the increased number of unemployed seeking job search assistance voluntarily. The implementation of these measures has increased capacity from 6,500 per month to 12,250 per month. The Government is also working to significantly improve access for unemployed persons to maximise opportunities for upskilling and reskilling so that people will be better placed to avail of new job opportunities when they become available. A number of programmes are already in place and it is intended to expand greatly the frequency and range of these programmes over the coming months. I recently announced the availability of 51,000 new training places under the FA´ S training initiatives strategy. These places are in addition to the 27,000 previously planned for 2009 under the bridging foundation training, specific skills training and traineeships programmes. The strategy enhances the traditional mix of course offerings and will be delivered through three core training initiatives of short courses, night courses and on-line courses. The courses are for highly employable people who wish to add to their existing skill level and improve their prospects of re-entering the labour market. The night courses offer further flexibilities and the on-line courses provide an excellent option for those who need a fast and flexible intervention and who prefer a self-directed e-learning and blended learning environment. There has been a significant downturn in construction-related activity since the beginning of 2008. As a result, there has been a major increase of the number of people within that sector who are out of work. There has also been an increase in the number of apprentices being made redundant. In addition to the usual resources it provides to redundant workers, FA´ S has established a training fund to enable it to provide a timely response to identifying training and retraining needs for low skilled and redundant craft workers from the construction sector. It is intended that this will enable individuals to secure a speedy return to work or, where this cannot be achieved, to provide relevant upskilling opportunities in order that jobseekers can obtain employment in alternative sectors. FA´ S is also focusing on providing retraining opportunities for redundant construction workers in emerging areas such as the installation of energy- efficient and renewable technologies, environmental activity and compliance and regulatory work. With regard to redundant apprentices, my Department and FA´ S have put in place a series of actions to facilitate the completion of their studies. These include redundant apprentices being allowed to progress to their next off-the-job phase of training without being obliged to complete the next on-the-job phase. A register of redundant apprentices has been established by FA´ S and the institutes of technology in order to identify these people at the earliest possible

484 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) opportunity. FA´ S has prioritised the need to locate an employer to sponsor the completion of apprentices’ off-the-job training. Last year I announced the launch of FA´ S’s employer-based redundant apprentice rotation scheme. The scheme, which will operate for this year, aims to provide up to 500 redundant apprentices with on-the-job training with certain approved employers on a rotation basis. The Government and the key organisations with responsibility for apprentices will continue to consider new initiatives to assist redundant apprentices in gaining the necessary on-the-job experience to progress and complete their apprenticeships. All existing full-time further and higher education places in September 2009 will continue to be open to applications from unemployed persons. In addition, applications will be encouraged for courses in institutes of technology that have vacant places. The Minister for Education and Science, his Department and the education sector are working to develop schemes to assist those who are unemployed and who wish to return to education. Further assistance for those who have become distanced from the labour market for some time and who are seeking to re-enter it is provided via community employment, CE, schemes. CE is an active labour market programme designed to provide eligible long-term unemployed people and other disadvantaged persons with an opportunity to engage in useful work within their communities on a fixed-term basis. The programme helps unemployed people to progress to the open labour market by breaking their experience of unemployment through a return to work routine and assists them in developing both their technical and personal skills. Funding for CE this year will enable the scheme to be operated on a flexible basis to maximise progression to the labour market through on-the-job training as well as maintain the support of community services. Funding for services provided by FA´ S to people with disabilities will allow the continuation of specific employment and training programmes targeted at such individuals. While a significant amount of work has been done in a short period, the Government and I are intent on achieving greater capacity within existing resources. In that context, I will be bringing forward further measures to make training and education services available to a greater number of unemployed persons during the coming weeks and months. In addition to the activation measures that I have outlined, the Government’s focus will also be on supporting the growth of Irish companies with the ambition, leadership and innovation to succeed in creating and sustaining employment. The environment is challenging but like its workforce, Ireland’s enterprises are resilient and adaptable. I am confident that they can rise to the challenge. These are difficult times but by working together I am certain that we can return to an Ireland of economic growth and prosperity. The measures set out by the Government provide the right mix of policies to stabilise the economy, to protect those in our society who are the most vulnerable and need our help the most, to foster the right conditions to generate new and sustainable jobs and, ultimately, to advance the standard of living of our citizens and maintain the social and economic advantages that have been acquired for this country during the past decade.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell: Deputy Bruton, on behalf of our party, tabled an amendment to this motion which states:

To delete all words after “Da´il E´ ireann” and substitute the following:

“— accepts the need to reduce borrowing in 2009 by \2 billion, as outlined in the Revised Stability Programme;

485 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Kieran O’Donnell.]

— calls for a detailed review and amendment of the measures announced by Govern- ment on 3 February 2009 to secure a fairer balance;

— calls for major reform and restructuring of programmes and agencies to get maximum value for the taxpayer;

— calls for the presentation of a credible five year economic plan; and

— calls for a fresh package of initiatives to address the issues of job loss, competitiveness, credit and new economic opportunities.”

I wish to expand on a number of the matters to which this amendment refers. The difficulty with the package announced by the Government yesterday is that it amounts to another in the series of fits and starts that have been made in respect of dealing with the problems the economy faces. The Government does not appear to understand that the economy relies on the integration of a number of areas, namely, the public sector, business, the banks, education, health, etc. Yesterday’s announcement related to the public sector but did not address the issue of getting small business moving again, nor did it deal with a range of other matters. The pension levy announced by the Taoiseach yesterday is nothing more than another form of cut and there are major anomalies attaching to it. The Department of Finance’s website contains information relating to the net cost, after tax, of the levy for public servants. The cost varies and the net percentage moves all over the place. Why is that the case? It is due to the fact that some will obtain tax relief while others will not. The lower paid will not get a fair deal under what is proposed. The figures provided by the Department indicate that a single person who qualifies for a full contributory old age pension of \230.30 per week — based on an average contribution of 48 stamps annually over a 40-year period — will qualify for a State pension of just short of \12,000. If he or she is employed in the public sector and is in receipt of a salary of \24,000, he or she will be entitled to half of that amount — approximately \12,000 — by way of a pension. He or she will, therefore, obtain no benefits from the contributions he or she makes to the State. He or she will pay an additional 4% for a public service pension but he or she will never benefit as a result. Let us consider the position of a married person in his or her early 30s who has been working in the public sector for ten years, who is the sole earner in the family and who has young children. If he or she is on the average public sector wage of \45,000, when he or she reaches retirement age he or she will qualify for a pension in the same amount as the State pension. As a result, he or she will not benefit from the contribution he or she is making to the State pension. That is a major problem. Furthermore, over a period of 40 years he or she will have paid almost \73,000 into the public sector pension scheme but will only receive \68,000 back. He or she will, therefore, be obliged to endure a net loss. Single people who earn below \25,000 and married people who earn \45,000 should not be forced to pay the pension levy. The Government must re-examine the levy because it is extremely unfair to the lower paid who, effectively, will be subsidising public sector pensions for those whose incomes are much higher. The pension levy is merely another example of the Government rushing its fences and not examining the impact. An income levy was already introduced in the budget and people over the age of 65 are supposed to be exempt from this if they earn less than \40,000. Persons whose

486 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) annual income exceeds \20,000 pay the levy and must apply for a refund at the end of the year. The Government’s statements to the effect that the levy does not hit the lower paid are incorrect. It is pursuing a policy of disguising tax increases and cuts as levies. This was also true in the case of medical cards. The Government’s proposal to remove medical cards from people aged over 70 years was rushed and ill thought out. In the case of negotiations with the social partners, the Government produced a pension levy at the 11th hour. Its proposal has clearly not been worked out in detail as the levy will apply to people who do not pay income tax. For example, it does not make sense that a single person earning less than \18,300 who does not pay income tax will pay the levy. A married couple with one income earner working in the public sector who earns less than \31,950 will not pay income tax but must pay the pension and income levies. Similarly, a married couple with two incomes earning less than \36,600 is also exempt from income tax but must pay the pension and income levies. The Government has also reduced the early childhood supplement from \1,100 to \1,000 and reduced the age threshold from five and a half years to five years. Employees in their early 30s who have been working in the public sector for around ten years and have large mortgages and children attending creches will be hit hardest by the measures announced yesterday. In addition to the child care measures, those in this group will pay a pension levy from which they will not benefit. I ask the Government to review the pension levy and consider making it fairer for single persons earning less than \25,000 per annum and married couples with an income of less than \45,000. The Government plans to invest \8 billion from the National Pensions Reserve Fund in the banks. The NPRF was established to pay public sector and social welfare pensions. The fund has lost value and is currently worth approximately \16 billion. The Government plans to invest \8 billion of pensioners’ money in the banks, while asking public sector employees to make pension contributions. This is not fair. The Government has not explained how it proposes to ensure funds start to flow to the small business sector and houses are not repossessed by the banks, nor has it explained how it proposes to curb remuneration to bank executives. A short time ago, the combined value of the banks was approximately \57 billion. This figure has fallen to less than \1 billion. It appears, however, that top executives in the banks continue to receive the same salaries as previously. This does not make sense. Once again, the ordinary citizen is paying for the mistakes of the banks and Government. The Government does not know how to run the economy. It has still not produced a credible economic strategy to get Ireland out of recession. This morning, the Taoiseach acknowledged recent job losses, which is easy to do. His job is to ensure jobs are not lost. The number of people on the live register has increased by almost 150,000 in the past 12 months. If the increase of 36,500 in the live register recorded in January is replicated in February and March, the number of people on the live register will reach 400,000. Despite this, the Government has not shown a sense of urgency and does not appear to know how to address the problems. This is clear from the manner in which the pension levy was introduced. It appears some people in the public sector pension scheme will not benefit from the contributions they are making. It is incumbent on the Government to provide a detailed breakdown of how its pension levy plans will work and how people will gain at the various levels. Unlike the private sector, where negotiation takes place on occupational schemes, the Government has decided to impose draconian charges of 3.8% on people on low incomes. I ask the Government to produce a credible plan. We know savings must be made but this must be done in a structured manner which avoids deflation and further job losses.

487 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Deputy Peter Power): The difficult decisions taken by the Government yesterday will have implications for all Votes across all Departments. These decisions were vital and have but one purpose, namely, the elimination of unsustainable levels of borrowing for day-to-day public expenditure to provide the platform needed for economic growth in future. Let us not be under any illusions. The reasons we must eliminate unsustainable levels of public borrowing, borrowing for the sake of borrowing and borrowing to repay borrowing is that, as we found in the 1980s, the costs of borrowing will eventually become unsustainable and every single penny raised in income tax will be used to pay the interest on the borrowings. We have learned one lesson from the mistakes we made in the 1980s, namely, that we need to borrow to invest in the future. While we need to borrow, we must do so at affordable rather than unsustainable levels. The decisions taken yesterday must be considered in that context. In the limited time available, I will focus on the decision to reduce the total budget provided for overseas aid and development from \891 million to \796 million. Notwithstanding the decisions made yesterday, our best estimate is that our overseas development assistance expenditure next year will be in the order of 0.53% compared to 0.55% two years ago. We should not overlook that Ireland’s aid programme is at historically high levels in the international context and, notwithstanding the decision taken yesterday, we will remain the sixth most generous donor in per capita terms in the world. The announcement has been criticised in some quarters. I will emphasise a number of points which informed thinking on the decision. If we chose not to reduce public expenditure, including overseas development assistance, as we did in the 1980s, and the economy were to go into freefall, we would simply offer our development partners, principally in Africa, a proportion- ately larger slice of a rapidly shrinking cake. It is also widely recognised in the development community that long-term borrowing for development programmes at exorbitant interest rates is untenable and unsustainable. It is a lose-lose scenario in which the developing countries would lose and our development programme would lose credibility. The size of all international aid programmes is expressed as a percentage of gross national product. Increasing the percentage of assistance given in the context of a seriously declining GNP would not be in the interests of the poorest people in the developing world or the credibility of Ireland’s aid programme internationally. The bare truth is that if the economy were to continue to decline at the current rate, we would provide an ever decreasing amount in overseas development assistance. The absolute imperative therefore is to provide for national economic recovery, thus enabling us to resume the expansion of the programme. It is the Government’s intention to expand the overseas aid programme again, as we did when times were good, the economy was expanding and gross national product was increasing. All aid budgets internationally are under pressure as the global economic crisis begins to affect the developed and developing world. The reduction in overseas development aid must be considered in that context. Having said that, Ireland has a proud record in development and Irish people can be justly proud of the Government’s aid programme implemented by Irish Aid. Ireland is the sixth most generous donor in the world in per capita terms and I am confident it will remain so in 2009. The overarching objective of our programme is the reduction of global poverty and hunger. Ireland is making a real difference to the lives of the poorest people in the developing world. We are significantly closer to achieving the 0.7% target we set ourselves, and which all developed countries have set, than most of our EU partners even after the painful decisions we took yesterday. Only Sweden, Luxembourg, Denmark and the Netherlands have higher percentages than Ireland.

488 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

My immediate priority as Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs with special responsibility for overseas development is to ensure the budget provided for the development programme is implemented effectively and in line with our priorities. What will our priorities be? Two weeks ago I signalled that the fight against world hunger would become a cornerstone of our international aid and development programme. That is our response to the hunger task force report which set out a real sense of anger and frustration on behalf of the Irish people that, notwithstanding the enormous difficulties we are facing in our country, there are still, as we go to bed tonight, 1 billion people who will not have enough food to eat. That is one person in every seven on the planet. To put it in context, the number who do not have enough food to eat is 250 times our population. It puts some of our own problems into some perspective. Our response this year, even in the context of the new realities we must all face, is to take a leadership role internationally in this area and encourage our development partners, all of whose budgets are under pressure at the moment, to refocus on the issues that matter, putting food in the mouths of the people who are hungry on the planet today. I have signalled to my ministerial colleagues this week at the development ministerial council meeting in Prague that we intend to take a leadership role in this area in 2009. In the context of the decision made yesterday we will examine every aspect of the programme to ensure its effectiveness in the fight against poverty and hunger. We will adjust the programme in line with yesterday’s decision and with a clear view to minimising the impact of those most in need. Regarding the macro-economic situation, the defining characteristic of the recession which has hit us over the last 12 months is the rapidity with which it hit not just Ireland and the developed world. Why is it so different from other recessions which did not hit us so quickly? It is clear evidence, if it is needed, that we are in a truly globalised financial economy and economic trading environment and only those countries which are able to compete effectively and ably in the technologically and internet based financial and economic global world economy will survive. Unless we get our public finances under control and do so quickly we will not be allowed to borrow. We need to be in a position to borrow that money so we can invest in the globalised trading economy. What does that mean? It means producing the best and most creative students in the world whose ideas go into the computers we used to make in Limerick, but can no longer make because we are not competitive in the assembly and production market. We need to produce people in this country who can make software and develop creative ideas, such as those of Microsoft, that go into computers. That is the new reality and globalised economy we face. To compete in it, we need to invest in it. To invest in it, we need to borrow. There is only one key determining fact in our ability to borrow and that is our ability to repay our borrowings. If we do not control public finances, with all the real pain and hardship that causes throughout the country, we will not be able to borrow a single penny. We will repeat the mistakes we made in the 1980s which were not to invest in our infrastructure, young people, roads, hospitals, schools or universities because that is the surest way for this recession to go on and on. That is why, even though they are painful, we needed to make the very difficult decisions yesterday.

Deputy James Reilly: I wish to share time with Deputy Michael Ring.

An Ceann Comhairle: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy James Reilly: I ask the Ceann Comhairle to tell me when I have reached five minutes.

489 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy James Reilly.]

This is the greatest financial crisis this country has faced since the foundation of the State. The startling unemployment figure of 328,000 people, the greatest number ever, is just another reminder of the stark reality facing so many of our citizens. The sad thing about this is that it was seen coming. Commentators have been warning about it for at least two years and yet we were told by the current Taoiseach that all was well and the fundamentals of the economy were sound. However, the fundamentals have not been sound for some time. During ten years of an unprecedented boom we went from the fourth most competitive economy in the world to being way down the list. This Government managed the startling feat of turning a surplus of \2 billion into a \22 billion deficit. Fianna Fa´il squandered the boom and shunned the opportunity to reform our public service through benchmarking. Consequently we are very poorly placed to deal with the world recession. I agree that we need to save \2 billion and need incisive action but what is happening here is yet again a blunt instrument has been used and it is aimed purely at public pay cuts. What will happen next year when we will have to save \4 billion? Will there be more public pay cuts? I do not think so. The HSE is an example of a burgeoning, bungling bureaucracy that is not delivering efficiency. We pour more and more money into it and yet we get fewer and fewer services. A total of 500 beds went out of the system last year, 600 will go this year and there is a 30% increase in delayed discharges, which has the same effect as having the Mater Hospital closed for a year. There has been a 10% increase in cancelled operations, there are 50 people lying in the accident and emergency department on trolleys in Beaumont Hospital and the list goes on. The health service is in a mess due to inefficiencies and lack of management, yet we are discussing whether or not its CEO should receive a bonus. Where is the reform of the banks? We have seen this Government wait for the banks to come to it with a solution. We are the ones who are bailing them out, therefore we are the ones who should be dictating. This Government should be leading from the front telling the Banks the way it will be. There should be a complete cull of the entire board of directors of any bank that has been bailed out because if these are the people that led us into this mess, they are not the people to get us out of it. New directors should be appointed who will dictate more reasonable salaries for the bosses and get rid of the nonsensical bonus system which only really appeals to short- term thinking and greed and is one of the reasons we are in this sorry mess. The era of cronyism and golden handshakes has got to end. I do not have much faith in this Government’s ability to do it as it has been at the centre of it for the last 20 years. How is it that a banker who has, in my view, been guilty of serious breaches of company law can walk away with a half a million pension having inflicted such enormous damage on his own bank and on the entire banking system? The ordinary person in the street is asking why, when they are earning \15,000 a year, are they paying a 3% levy on their pension whilst this man walks away with half a million euro. These are the sort of inequities in Irish life that lead to civil unrest. This whole area brings into question the role of regulators, their ability to regulate and the whole ethos of turning a blind eye. We are not addressing the need for reform in either the public or private sector, nor are we addressing the need to stimulate the economy. What has this Government done? It has increased 17 different taxes, the most ridiculous of which was increasing VAT. Has it not heard

490 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) of the law of diminishing returns? There has been a drop of \365 million in VAT collected in January 2009 compared to January 2008.

An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Reilly has one minute.

Deputy James Reilly: The economy is frozen and there is no activity in the market because everybody is afraid. They are afraid for their jobs and savings. There is no certainty anywhere. We need to put some real initiatives in place. We have already asked for a reduction in VAT and have suggested a moratorium on PRSI for new employees to encourage employers to take them on. I suggest a six month moratorium on stamp duty, reducing it to 1% for that period so people can see they have an opportunity to enter the market and get value. I would also like to see a moratorium — this is a personal view — for a further six months on properties abroad so that capital gains tax will be reduced from 22% to 5% to encourage people to repatriate their money and invest in Irish business. None of these proposals is designed to interfere with the market, but rather to stimulate some activity, the consequence of which will be an immediate gain to the Exchequer of 13.5% VAT on all new houses sold, as well as VAT on the fees charged by solicitors, auctioneers and surveyors. I would remind the House that 1% of something is better than 6% of nothing. Last month, stamp duty dropped by 72% compared to January 2008. We have asked the Government to freeze local authority rates and charges to give businesses a chance. This is not a time to put a strain on businesses. We need to restore a semblance of normality, even if it is only at half the value and half the volume. The Taoiseach’s plan is a poor start. It is a blunt instrument that is hurting many people unfairly and, further, it ignores totally the areas of reform, improved efficiency and initiatives to stimulate the economy.

Deputy Michael Ring: Ministers and Fianna Faíl backbenchers should be wary because the country is angry. Many families have been hurt by yesterday’s announcement. I was talking to a county council official today whose only income is his own salary. His wife does not work and they have three children attending third level education. He has a job but 5 o’clock since that is the only income coming into the house he is worried whether he will be able to pay his mortgage and keep his children in college. He also wonders what is going to happen in the future. The Government is pretending that this is a pension adjustment but it is not; it is a pay cut. If Fianna Faílers become aggravated they go back to the time of Earnest Blythe and talk about taking the shilling off pensioners. After yesterday’s announcement, however, Civil Service employees and others working for the State will never forgive Fianna Faíl or the Greens. They will never forgive this Government for what it has done to their livelihoods. It is the second pay cut this year because the 1% levy was another pay cut. That is the second pay cut in two months. The Government is lurching from one crisis to another. There is no leadership and nothing is happening. It closed down the Daíl from December and did not reopen it until the end of January. The whole country was going down the tubes when the Daíl should have been back here discussing what could be done to help the economy. I want to make two points concerning rip-off Ireland and housing. The Minster of State, Deputy Finneran, has responsibility for housing. There are approximately 70,000 unused houses in this State. If they were sold, the 13.5% VAT would amount to \2.8 billion for the Exchequer. I am calling on the Government to reduce VAT by a quarter and give the ensuing \30,000 to young first-time buyers. It would mean that the Government would not get the full VAT

491 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Michael Ring.] amount but at least it would get a fair percentage off it and it would bring \1.7 billion to the Exchequer. By God, do we need the money. If shops or supermarkets have an oversupply they have a sale, but there is no thought or initiative on the Government side of the House. In yesterday’s announcement and in the budget there was nothing about creating employment to give people opportunity. What has the Government done in the last ten years for small businesses? It has imposed VAT and other taxes, as well as every kind of inspector to ensure that the few people who were in business were put out of it.

Deputy Michael Finneran: The Deputy supported the long-term lease of houses.

Deputy Michael Ring: The long-term lease we want is to put the Government not even into opposition but out the door. It is the worst long-term lease we have had in this country. It has been in office for too long.

Deputy Michael Finneran: The Deputy was here before me.

Deputy Michael Ring: It has gone stale and has no ideas. The soft option is to crucify the taxpayer, but the taxpayer is going to react.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Jan O’Sullivan): The Deputy has only 30 seconds left.

Deputy Michael Ring: I need more time to deal with them. The Minister, Deputy Gormley, might have got a buzz in the poll last week but there is only one poll that counts and that is the one in June. When he gets the results of that poll, he will be pole-vaulting over here to get away from that Government because they will bring the Greens down as they did with the Progressive Democrats. Why is the Government attacking people who are working and paying tax? Yesterday’s levy was unfair. It is the second pay cut this year. People can only take so much and they have now taken all they can bear, particularly those who are working.

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley): The unemployment figures released today show the unprecedented economic situation in which we find ourselves. By now, everybody knows someone — be they a relative, friend or neighbour — who has recently lost their job as unemployment of 9% reaches record numbers in absolute terms. As a small open economy that is part of a European currency, traditional monetary instruments are not open to us. Ireland’s eventual economic recovery will also be reliant on a global economic recovery. We in Ireland have to implement policies and measures that will place us in a position to capitalise on that global economic recovery. We need to move away from an over reliance on construction and back to export-led industry and services. We need to ensure those new industries are sustainable, and that is why the Green Party in government is advancing the green economy and the green-tech sector as an essential element in our recovery. First and foremost, however, we must restore our public finances to more sustainable levels if we are to repair our economy, restore confidence and restore employment growth. We are now borrowing \4,500 for every man, woman and child in the State. That \18 billion in borrowing is the equivalent of a third of current spending. The interest we will pay on that, \4.5 billion, is the equivalent of a third of the entire income tax take. That level of borrowing is not sustainable and consequently current levels of Government spending are not sustainable.

492 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

The package of measures announced by the Government yesterday is a significant step along the difficult and arduous road towards restoring our public finances. More difficult decisions on expenditure will be required next year and in 2011 and 2012. I know the measures announced yesterday are very difficult. They are painful and unpalatable in many cases, but they have to be introduced if the economy is to survive and prosper. As shown last week in the framework document, there is unanimous agreement that public spending must be reduced by at least \2 billion in a year. It would have been impossible to make that reduction without a significant change in our public service pension system. Public service employees deliver excellent services across this country, from our hospitals to our schools, Garda stations and council offices. They are hard working and as a group they earn their salaries and wages, but if we are to make the necessary adjustments, there is no option but to take significant steps to reduce the overall net expenditure on our \20 billion public pay roll. The changes to public service pensions will deliver savings over a calendar year of \1.4 billion. I appreciate the sacrifice that will be made by each and every one of the 300,000 public service employees in this country. Nevertheless, if the changes are not made those very public service jobs could be placed in jeopardy in the long term. The decision to reduce the early childhood payment was also a difficult one to make; it was necessary but its effect is minimised. The payment will end six months earlier at the age of five. The total annual payment has also been reduced. The decision to maintain the payment reflects my party’s concern that parents of young children should continue to get additional support in order to give them a choice on how they care for their children. Parents with children under five will continue to received \3,000 a year in child care payments. The reduction in overseas aid was also a difficult decision to make. I acknowledge the concerns of the Irish NGOs, but the reduction has been minimised to \95 million. Ireland will still be the sixth largest per capita donor in the world. Our budget for overseas development aid will be just \4 million euro short of \800 million this year, which is \300 million more than in 2004. While our per capita contribution is less than some of the Scandinavian countries, it is still larger than many of our European neighbours such as Britain and Germany. In terms of spending reductions, the package is balanced. The measures will, I hope, minimise the impact on lower income households and insulate the most vulnerable. The alternatives to the spending reductions announced yesterday would have had significant impacts on low income households. That is not the Green Party way of thinking. However, what has been absent from the analysis is comment on some of the positive elements in the package in terms of a reorientation of investment by the Government. This package will divert capital investment towards labour intensive programmes, which will create green jobs, maintain the construction sector and pursue climate change goals. This capital investment will secure and create thousands of badly needed jobs in the construction sector this year. For example, the water services investment programme will see \560 million spent on water infrastructure, 19% more than in 2008. More than 4,500 jobs will be sustained and by the end of this year there will be 150 projects under construction. The green capital programme will deliver and create thousands more jobs through a greatly expanded insulation scheme for houses and buildings around the country. I know we are asking a lot of the general public. However, I, as Green Party leader, would not ask the public to accept this package if I did not believe it to be absolutely necessary. I also believe that we here in Leinster House must show political leadership. The Government is determined to play its part, along with the Oireachtas, in reducing the costs of our democratic

493 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy John Gormley.] and political systems. We aim to achieve substantial savings in 2009 through a range of changes in Government and Oireachtas funding. The Oireachtas Commission will be asked to contribute to this process, and we invite the co-operation of all political parties and Independent Deputies, to show clear leadership across the political system. In this context, the approach to foreign visits of Oireachtas committees, the funding of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission and the systems of remuneration, pensions, expenses and allowances for Members of the Oireachtas will be considered. The costs of discharging ministerial functions in support of effective Government will also be reviewed. Speaking personally, I do not believe last month’s expenses reform proposals from the all- party Oireachtas Commission are nearly sufficient to show that leadership. A vouched expenses system merely tinkers at the edges of the significant spending reforms needed in the Oireachtas. We in Government need, more than anything else, to send a signal to the general public that corporate greed and responsibility will not be tolerated. This is the reason the Green Party wants to see new measures to deal with the remuneration of the senior management of our banks and to ensure that those who have brought our banking system into disrepute and caused untold damage to our international reputation are held fully to account. These are the most challenging economic times we have faced in this country in living memory. The global phenomenon makes that challenge even greater. I agree with Deputy Enda Kenny that things have gone beyond political point scoring. I said that a fortnight ago, at the 90th anniversary of the Da´il celebration. We as politicians must be honest, open and truthful about the extent of the problems we face, the fact that there are no easy solutions and that we are all going to experience some form of financial pain. That is as true for the Opposition benches as it is for the Government.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: I wish to share my time with Deputy Arthur Morgan.

Acting Chairman: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: The Government’s proposals to cut \1.4 billion from the public pay bill will do nothing to help the finances of the country. Neither will they have the support of the public, because they are fundamentally unfair. The Government proposes to cut the pay of all those in the public service, simply because they are public servants and are, therefore, the soft option. The majority of public servants bear no responsibility whatsoever for the country’s economic problems, yet they are the ones being asked to pay the price. It is the developers and builders who made massive profits from the housing bubble who should be the first to pay the price for our current woes. Those in the banking world, who have contributed largely to the current banking crisis, should also pay the price. It is these and the others who facilitated their activities who should bear the responsibility, be punished and pay. The Government’s proposals are unjust because they make no attempt to share the burden across the community. Solidarity is about people pulling together, but it is also about everyone paying his or her share, based on ability to pay. There is no attempt in the proposals to ensure that those with high incomes, whether from salaries, rents, professional fees in the public or private sector, shares, fees as company directors or benefits from the many tax shelters and allowances, pay. Why is it that these people get away with it yet again? The public service should make sacrifices, but with all other sectors. It is time to consider capping all public sector pay at a realistic level, for example, at the \150,000 mark. We should also stop all bonus payments and increments for those earning over \100,000. I agree too that Deputies’ expenses should be reduced and vouched.

494 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

The most unfair aspect of the Government’s proposals is the fact they hit all public servants, no matter how low their income. Why should anyone with an income under \50,000 have to take a pay cut? Let me give the Minister an example of how these cuts will impact on people. Ministers are fond of using imaginary families as an example at budget time, so I want the Minister to imagine a family of a husband, wife and three children where the husband works in the public sector and the wife works in the home. The husband earns \40,000 gross and takes home approximately \35,000 per annum or \673 per week. The State deems that this family does not have sufficient income in order to live with dignity and for that reason the family receives a family income supplement of \1,040. Now, under these proposals, the State will take \2,750 from that family. On the one hand the State gives a supplement to the family because it does not have enough to live on, but on the other hand it removes a far greater sum by way of this levy. This demonstrates how unjust and unfair are these proposals. They will hit people who are struggling to keep their heads above water. This is the equivalent of trying to squeeze blood from a stone. The proposals are unjust also in that they make no attempt to share the burden across the community. This is not a plan to get the economy going again. It does nothing for jobs. It does the opposite, by proposing to take \1.4 billion out of the economy. This means increasing numbers of public servants will cross the Border to do their shopping. Less money will be spent on services here and fewer goods will be bought. In the long term, these cuts will lead to greater levels of unemployment, because much of the employment in the private sector results from employment in the public sector and the moneys spent by that sector. There is no fairness in these proposals. They do not have the support of the public and will not achieve what the Government intends to achieve. They should be rejected.

Deputy Arthur Morgan: I thank the Labour Party and Deputy Shortall for sharing time with me. Yesterday’s statement by the Taoiseach has caused irreparable damage to the public’s confidence in the Government and has cemented the perception that, unfortunately, the Taoiseach is incapable of recognising the real issues and is simply fixated on targeting our public workers and our front line services. The Taoiseach’s only strategy is to attack nurses, gardaı´ and people breaking their backs to serve the public. The public and all on this side of the House were waiting for the Taoiseach to finally deliver a plan to deal with the real problems of our deteriorating economy. It is through rescuing the economy that we can shore up our finance deficit. The unemployment rate is now at 9.2%, and if we keep on losing jobs at a rate of 9,000 a week, the \2 billion savings will evaporate, through the increased burden on our social welfare system. This morning, the Taoiseach stated this was an “old fashioned approach” to focus on job creation. If this is the case, why is it that almost every other country in the western world is engaged in kickstarting the economy and not kicking public sector workers? We will continue to call for a coherent plan which focuses on job creation, job retention and finding the money to address the increasing national debt through getting the wealthy to pay their fair share. What is most annoying about the Government’s cutback plan is despite all the talk of sharing the burden once again our low and medium paid workers will get it in the neck. It is nurses who will lose \2,250 from their salaries and it is gardaı´ who will have thousands of euro taken from their incomes. Effectively the actions of the Government mean that hard-working people will have to take a pay cut of up to \3,000 before paying the income levy and health charges. What makes this even more difficult to accept is that the Brendan Drumms of this world, who earn almost \500,000 of taxpayers’ money between their salaries and bonuses, continue to get

495 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Arthur Morgan.] off scot free and are being allowed to continue wreck the public service with the Government’s privatisation plans. Today in the Da´il, the Taoiseach stated he will seek a 25% pay cut for banking executives. This is not nearly enough given that we are about to hand them \8 billion of taxpayers’ money to bail them out for their reckless lending. We still do not know when the beloved directors of Anglo Irish Bank will finally pay back the \179 million worth of loans they now owe to the taxpayer. President Obama’s idea of placing a ceiling of approximately $500,000 on bank executives comes close to the mark. A 25% cut will still leave our so-called world class banking directors with salaries worth millions of euro each and nothing has been done about the earnings of a vast number of public body CEOs, including the CEO of the ESB who continues to earn in excess of \500,000. It is clear the Government’s pension levy plan discriminates against the lower paid as the higher one goes up the scale the smaller the increases become. This does not include the fact that the high earners in the public sector will be able to claim most of this money back in tax relief on their pensions. In our pre-budget submission we made the point that the Government should have a standard rate relief which would have yielded almost \1 billion for the Exchequer. It has continued to ignore this and instead focused solely on cutbacks. There are a number of sources of savings, particularly ending subsidies to private companies operating in the public services and numerous other areas. It is job creation that increases revenue and it is only when the Government finally sees the importance of a strategy that we will create the conditions necessary for recovery. The Government’s approach must change. We need to see the front-loading of critical infrastructure labour intensive projects. We need greater assistance for business start-ups. We need to grow the indigenous export market, develop and support a truly innovative culture and rebuild the Irish economy. The Taoiseach will have to re-enagage with this House and finally start listening to this side of the House.

Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Deputy Billy Kelleher): We have spoken about the economy in recent times outside of this House and a great deal of public commentary has been made on it because it is the most central issue and the greatest challenge to face the country in recent times. I support the motion which states:

That Da´il E´ ireann:

— supports the expenditure measures announced by the Government to restore greater balance between revenue and spending;

— affirms its confidence in the economic strategy of the Government to restore the economy to growth as soon as possible;

and

— calls on all sections of our country to follow the lead of the Government and show the social solidarity needed to tackle this unprecedented economic downturn.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: The Government is only getting one section.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: It is important to mention this because we have listened to the debate in the House today. We also had a debate yesterday and on previous occasions. We all accept that major challenges exist. We are trying to find solutions to the major problems we confront.

496 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Reference has been made by the Opposition to the banking crisis. I want to reiterate the reality of this situation. While this country had its own internal difficulties in the context of the governance of some banks, this issue started in Wall Street some time ago. It started in the sub-prime market in the United States and spread throughout the world. There was an economic crisis across the entire world. Being quite truthful, to point the finger simplistically and solely at our internal system does not do a service to this debate.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: Do they bear any responsibility?

Deputy Billy Kelleher: There are more fundamental problems causing distress to the banking system in Ireland than our own internal issues.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: Should they contribute to the recovery?

Deputy Billy Kelleher: To simplify the debate to this level does a disservice to the seriousness which confronts us as a society, a Government and a Parliament. The figures on the live register this month show a worrying trend in unemployment. Every- body in this House is fully aware of the impact unemployment has on individuals, communities and broader society. Reference was made to how we deal with these problems in the context of unemployment. I remind the House that this year we will spend \8 billion in capital project expenditure which is 5% of GNP. People take for granted that the national development plan can be just rolled out without finding the resources to fund it. We will have to go onto the markets and borrow this \8 billion. The Labour Party pointed out that we need a stimulus package to promote further economic growth and generate more employment. In theory, this might sound impressive but the reality is that we are a small open economy. Already we are borrowing well beyond our means and fundamentally this would mean going back to the international markets and borrowing at very high rates to fund further capital projects when we have anticipated funding of \8 billion this year in schools and roads and throughout the area of capital infrastructural investment.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: That is nothing new.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: We must realise that we are doing a lot already as a State in the context of capital investment——

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: A lot of damage certainly.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: ——and we will continue to do so. We also seem to forget what we have achieved to date. It is important that when we are trying to do the groundwork and build a platform for recovery of the economy that we acknowledge that this country has achieved much in recent years. We have 2 million people at work, a low income tax base, fairly high social welfare payments to protect the vulnerable and we have the second highest minimum wage in the OECD at \8.65 per hour.

Deputy Simon Coveney: The model is broken.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: These are fundamental achievements and many people benefited from the policies pursued in the past 15 years in this country and this cannot be denied by anybody. However, we are living beyond our means and yesterday the Government announced a package of savings of \2 billion in the calendar year, a pension levy on public service pension payments——

497 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: A pay cut for public servants.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: As the Taoiseach stated, this is unpalatable but necessary.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: Call it what it is.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: We must be honest with ourselves. We can come in here and speak rhetoric but if the public finances are not addressed quickly they will run into difficulty. It is also appropriate that we examine some of the Opposition proposals. Reference was made by the leaders of the parties opposite that they are willing to engage and put forward positive proposals. However, on the one hand we have a view from Fine Gael on how we address the issue, on the other hand we have views from the Labour Party and they are not compatible with what we are trying to achieve. The Labour Party attacked the Government for not giving the social partners enough time to discuss the challenges confronting us. In the House the Labour Party accused us of not engaging with the social partners. In the same debate, the leader of the Fine Gael Party accused us of dragging our heels and discussing for too long a time with the social partners. We built a social partnership model which has served this country well since 1987. It does not behove anybody to try to pull this model down when it has shown that it has the capacity to deal with challenging issues. It is regrettable that the unions and the ICTU could not come on board in the final hours of the discussions with the Government to address the problems with regard to funding the public pay bill. In fairness, they did engage and acknowledged that major problems exist and \2 billion had to be found. They agreed a framework but they could not come to the table on where the pain would be felt. Some of the commentary here is not doing the debate justice. With regard to what we are trying to achieve on unemployment, we have increased the capacity of labour activation programmes. Fifty-one extra training places will be provided to allow those who become unemployed to receive some training. Thus, they will at least be engaged and making progress while unemployed. We will be trying to achieve this in the coming months. During the downturn in the 1980s, when people were just given social welfare and unemployment benefits, there was no engagement with training programmes or education courses, thus creating a considerable social problem. We must ensure there is continual engagement with those who are unfortunate enough to find themselves unemployed. As the Minister and Taoiseach said, the economic difficulties will continue to confront us throughout 2009. We fill face considerable challenges associated with job shedding in the broader economy. We are very conscious of this and will try to provide as many training places as possible. However, training alone will not address all the problems confronting those on social welfare. Reference was made to the cost of living. There seems to be a view in circulation that nobody has benefited from the decrease in the cost of living due to deflationary pressures. Interest rates have decreased substantially, while the cost of fuel is decreasing. Our energy policy must be considered in this regard. Energy costs will comprise a fundamental issue in the coming weeks. All surveys show that energy provision is of fundamental importance to the country, an issue on which Deputy Coveney has been very forceful. Foreign direct investors express concern about the cost of energy when considering Ireland as a location in which to invest. If the Government, the Da´il and the people do not take collective responsibility to deal with these challenges, they will send a very dangerous signal.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: Hypocrisy.

498 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Billy Kelleher: There is certainly no hypocrisy on this side of the House. At least we are willing to make the tough decisions.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: It is hypocrisy. The Government should take responsibility.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: The Labour Party, through Deputy Shortall, is proposing in the House that only those earning over \150,000 should contribute to addressing the problems.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: I did not say that.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: The Deputy should note that many from where I come believe \100,000, never mind \150,000, is a substantial salary.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: The Minister of State should not misrepresent me.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: Bearing that in mind, it is the Deputy’s view that is hypocritical.

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: That is not what I said.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: The Government is to borrow \18 billion this year, or \4,500 for every man, woman and child in the State. This is substantial borrowing. If we do not deal with these issues, we will saddle the generations to come with considerable debt. Every responsible political party in the Da´il would certainly not want this to occur. Unfortunately, some parties have not rejected the approach that would allow it to happen. I want to refer to the banks issue to which many references have been made. Last year the Government gave a guarantee to all depositors in the Irish banking institutions. We received support from some political parties. Members on the other side of the House are now crying that there is not enough liquidity in the market or credit available to small businesses. In this country’s hour of need, the Labour Party sat on its hands. During the effort to ensure we could provide some——

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: We were against a blind guarantee.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: The Labour Party sat on its hands——

Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall: The Government has done nothing to make credit available to small businesses.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: ——at a time when we were facing——

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Rightly so.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: ——a financial meltdown. The party sat on its hands.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: The Government still does not know that for which it has given half the national pensions reserve fund.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: Again, when rhetoric met reality, the Labour Party was found wanting.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: No. The Government gave half the national pensions reserve fund to banks without knowing their debts.

Deputy Billy Kelleher: The Labour Party wanted to rob the fund a couple of years ago.

499 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: That is right; Fianna Fa´il would not let us touch it and gave half of it to the banks without knowing their debts.

Deputy Simon Coveney: I wish to share my time with Deputy Jim O’Keeffe.

Acting Chairman: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Simon Coveney: Fine Gael, as a party, accepts the need for a reduction in expenditure but the Government should not expect us to like it. Like so many across the country, we are angry and frustrated that it has come to this. The vast majority of those being asked to accept pain, be it through what one calls a social solidarity pact or everyone putting his or her shoulder to the wheel, face income reductions, while others face job losses. The State will have to borrow significant funds that we will all need to repay long into the future. Fianna Fa´il-led Governments have led the country to virtual collapse. The Minister of State, Deputy Kelleher, spoke about the need to recognise what Ireland had achieved in the past ten to 15 years. The model that achieved growth and job creation is now broken and needs to be rebuilt in a different form. We need to find new ways of raising money and rebuilding competitiveness which is what got the Celtic tiger started in the first place. The only way Ireland will recover from its current condition is by increasing export trade, attracting new investors and businesses with a view to creating jobs, and building on our domestic skills base to encourage new entrepreneurs to borrow, build and employ. The same approach must be taken as was adopted after the 1980s with a view to creating a competitive, attractive country in which to do business. This is not such a country because of sloppy, lazy, arrogant governance that allowed Ireland to lean on the crutch of the construction boom. When the revenue from the boom disappeared, Ireland’s financial viability also collapsed. We must now cope with this. Last night on “Prime Time” I heard the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform state Ireland had hit a wall, that it was nobody’s fault and that it was everybody’s fault. What a load of rubbish. It is people’s fault. There are many events taking place that the Government cannot and does not control and which make existing domestic problems far more difficult to solve, but people need to know that we have a Government which is in charge and knows where we are going. The people are willing to put up with pain if they believe the Government’s approach is part of a broader strategy to bring Ireland through the dark tunnel and out the other side. They do not believe this and the Government has not even managed to communicate the extent of the problem to them. They are finding out the extent of the problem by noting the reductions in their salaries and hearing yesterday’s announcements. We do not even have a Taoiseach with the political courage to stand before the nation and talk honestly about what has happened to Ireland, why it has happened and the way forward. Instead, we heard of meetings behind closed doors and efforts to do cosy political deals to obtain political cover for the hard cutbacks announced yesterday. Fine Gael will not facilitate this. It will, however, support responsible government. It offered yesterday to discuss options with the Government in an effort to achieve consensus in the House, given that it was not possible to do so with the social partners.

Deputy Jim O’Keeffe: The package announced yesterday was a dismal, sad effort without vision or hope. In addition, it was unfair and unbalanced. The real problem is that the Govern- ment is still in denial about the background to the problem. It will not accept that its own neglect created it. Last night the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was asked about responsibility. He stated everybody was responsible and then that nobody was respon-

500 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) sible, that we had hit a wall. In the name of goodness, a Government in such a state of denial does not deserve to be in government. Coupled with this were the tortuous secret negotiations that occurred without transparency. They have caused great concern among those who had no idea what was going on. I received an e-mail from one of the Garda representative bodies this morning and noted that it was not involved in the talks, yet it has been hit by the pensions levy such that individual gardaı´ must now pay an extra \5,000 or \6,000 without having any idea why. Before I address public servants, let me refer to the cut in overseas development aid of \95 million. I have been interested in overseas development aid all my political life. Must we literally take bread from the mouths of the starving people of the world to solve our problems? To me it is entirely unacceptable. A few points arise on the question of public servants. They believe they were individually focused. As far as they were concerned, and without any reference to anybody else, the proposals were savage. The proposals appear to be quite unfair as far as the lowest paid are concerned, who will gain nothing whatever from the contributions. There also appears to be an anomaly, especially in terms of those who came into the public service in recent years who are already making a contribution. Will they now have to pay an additional contribution? We should remember that all these public servants will be caught for the extra levies that were introduced in that dreadful budget last October. The real problem is that there was no consultation of any kind and there is a lack of communication and a lack of understanding on the part of the public service. I accept the public service will have to make a contribution the same as anybody else but this was not the way to do it. A lead should have been given. I focused on questions lately about foreign travel, not because I am against foreign travel. The Minister of State, Deputy Roche, is present. He has to go to Brussels and negotiate on the Lisbon treaty and other matters. I did it myself when I was in the Department. However, it has to be proportionate and reasonable and a lead has to be given in that regard. That is what I am asking. I am not making any point other than that. Reference was made to Ministers of State. If that area was tackled it would be some kind of example from the Government. What I really wish to see from the Government is some message of hope and reform. Are we just into a cut, cut, cut situation? Where is the focus on jobs? Where is the focus on enterprise? Does the Government not see there are significant areas that can be tackled that do not cost money? One area that annoys me is planning. I know it is not popular to be in favour of development and enterprise but I am in favour of it. I accept many developers abuse their situation but we need development. We have a ridiculous situation now where there are bureaucratic obstacles to people seeking planning permission. In some local authorities a 40% invalidation rate applies, namely, in Limerick, Dublin, Waterford and Galway, yet it is down to 8% in Sligo, Wexford and Louth. Why is that the case? Why do we have huge delays for planning appeals? We need development. I do not suggest we lower the standards but if projects are going to be granted let us encourage development. I note from the most recent report of An Bord Pleana´la that only one quarter of all appeals were disposed of within the statutory timeframe of 18 weeks in 2008. How can that be justified? Why do we not examine the other bureaucratic problems such as those in regard to foreshore licence applications? One would want to be mad to develop a marina at the moment but if one wanted to do so it would take about ten years before one could do it due to all the bureaucratic obstacles. Why do we not examine the possibility of developing community employment schemes to deal with the unemployed? Why do we not abolish the silly rule stipulating double

501 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Jim O’Keeffe.] time on Sunday that is closing hotels, restaurants and pubs around the country? Why are all those things not being done? The message I wish to give to the Government is that it must resolve the public finances — a problem it created itself largely. In so far as they are reasonable proposals we will back it. At the same time, let there be a focus on enterprise and development. Let us look at the plight of the unemployed and the need for enterprise. Let us do what we can to encourage enterprise and get people back to work again.

Deputy Michael Mulcahy: I wish to share time with Deputy Conlon.

Acting Chairman: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Michael Mulcahy: We will have five minutes each. It is important that there should be a mature appreciation not just in this House but among the population as to the seriousness of the current economic situation. It is perfectly right and reasonable to examine what we have done in recent years, to be positive where it is appropriate to be positive and to be critical where it is appropriate to be critical. No Government ever gets it entirely right. Governments make mistakes. People make mistakes. That is not unreasonable. When one looks at what is happening in the United Kingdom, France, Spain, Germany, Greece and the United States of America, there is no doubt that this downturn in our economy is mirrored precisely, if it is not worse, in several economies. The question thus arises as to what should be the response of the Government to a downturn of that magnitude. In the main, I fully support the programme as set out yesterday by the Taoiseach and Minister for Finance. It is a sensible first step. However, I have to be honest about it; perhaps they should even have gone a little bit further because at this stage we do not know if this is a recession, a very deep recession or a depression. If it is a depression the economic downturn could last for not just up to three years but possibly up to six years. In that case our tax revenue would decrease even more, which would put our general budgetary situation under strain. I am sure the Acting Chairman was in the Chamber when she heard the figures given to her party leader about the cost to the State of the unemployed, not just giving an unemployed person, correctly, social supports and unemployment benefit but also the cost to the State of lost tax revenue. The real challenge for economic recovery is to deal with unemployment. Not enough credit has been given to the previous Government and the one before that for having reduced unemployment and having secured the employment for the first time in the State of more than 2 million people — a not insignificant achievement. The question now arises as to how we respond to the crisis. The first step is to restore stability to the national financial and budgetary situation. I am pleased the Taoiseach said that this morning. The second step must be to get our competitiveness into line with other economies. There are a few basic costs to any business. One is the cost of capital, which has come down because interest rates are now cheap. However, capital must also be available and that is why we are addressing the banking situation. The second major ingredient in the cost of any business is the cost of labour. Whether we like it, the cost of labour in this country is unacceptably high. That goes from the top to the bottom. The minimum wage in Ireland is just south of \9 per hour. The minimum wage in Poland is approximately \2 per hour. I do not advocate that we go down to that level but we need to examine every aspect of the price of labour in this State. I hope to debate the matter with colleagues in the next few months. I echo the comments made by Deputy Jim O’Keeffe,

502 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) that double time on Sunday at the current rate is no longer sustainable. It is no surprise that hotels are closing. I call on the trade unions to show some leadership in that respect. Ultimately, what is the point in having high wages if jobs are going to disappear? I very much support the Government’s programme, as announced yesterday.

Deputy Margaret Conlon: Chuir an Taoiseach an plean ata´ ag an Rialtas os comhair na Da´la inne´. Ceapaim go gcuideoidh a bhfuil raíte ag an Taoiseach inne´ le smachtu´ caitheachais. Rinne an Rialtas an-iarracht aghaidh a thabhairt ar na deachrachtaı´.Taímid i gruacha´s. Teastaıónn cabhair uainn. Caithfimid go leír tarraingt le cheíle. The decisions taken yesterday were necessary to help stabilise the public finances. Yesterday, there were no job losses in the public sector. A lot of pain is being asked of the public sector’s employees and no one likes to feel pain. I have spoken to many public servants in recent months and they all accept and agree that there is a need for public sector reform and cuts but they are quick to point out what everyone else should forgo as long as they are okay. The “I’m all right Jack” mentality is alive and well. Public servants have not been forced to go on the live register, unlike 120,000 private sector workers in recent times. Deputy Jim O’Keeffe referred to the cut in overseas development aid, ODA. The allocation for 2009 was set at \891 million in the budget last October and this will be reduced to \796 million. Even after this realignment, Ireland’s ODA percentage rate exceeds that of the United Kingdom, the United States and most EU member states, while it is inferior only to that of Holland, the Nordic states and Luxembourg. The Government still has the target of 0.7% of GNP by 2012 dedicated to ODA. In budget 2009 it was decided that the additional costs of the pay increase due on 1 September 2009 would be met through administrative efficiencies. The pay increase has been deferred and \50 million of the efficiency savings is being retained for the Exchequer. These savings will arise from greater efficiencies in Departments and Offices in both pay and non- pay areas. People have looked for efficiencies in these areas for a long time. The Government has decided there will be no payments under Towards 2016, leading to a further saving in 2010 of more than \1 billion. I accept this decision is also unpopular but we have to cut our cloth to fit our measure. As a housewife and mother, if I cannot afford something in the home, I do not get it. Boom and bust policies got us into dire straits in the 1980s and we cannot go back to that——

Deputy Billy Timmins: We have.

Deputy Seymour Crawford: This is worse.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: This is the worse position in the history of the country.

Deputy Margaret Conlon: ——otherwise, we can bury our heads in the sand and in four or five years face up to stark reality and face horrendous cuts, greater than those included in yesterday’s announcement. As a former teacher, I welcome that within the capital budget \150 million has been specifically earmarked for school building and insulation-energy efficiency measures. The re- tendering process pursued by the Minister for Education and Science is delivering better prices of between 15% and 20%. Therefore, the same funding is going much further in this new economic climate, enabling more school projects to go to construction and us to get better value for money.

503 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Brendan Howlin: Is the collapse of the construction industry a good thing?

Deputy Margaret Conlon: Domestic pressures in the economy, in particular the sudden halt in the construction sector, are being made worse by the parallel weakening of sterling. Since presentation of budget 2009 last October, the economic climate has worsened. We are borrowing \18 billion or almost \4,500 for every man, woman and child in the State, which is huge.

Deputy Seymour Crawford: That is a scandal.

Deputy Margaret Conlon: We are paying for approximately 32% of current spending, including pay, through borrowing, which is totally unsustainable, and it is inconceivable that we would continue to borrow to fund current expenditure.

Deputy Seymour Crawford: Deputy Bruton said that a long time ago.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: Fianna Fa´il brought us to this.

Deputy Margaret Conlon: We are in uncharted waters economically and the only way forward is to act together to take collective pain. Further disastrous Exchequer figures for January were released yesterday and they show tax receipts were \900 million down on January 2008. The Opposition parties also have serious national responsibilities in this unprecedented time of crisis. The problems we face as a State are so acute that elected representatives of all parties have an onerous responsibility to contribute to getting us all on a level footing. We need to examine costs, look to the future with confidence and hope, have more positive thinking than negative spin and let the world know Ireland is open for business and investment.

Deputy Deirdre Clune: I wish to share time with Deputies Timmins and Crawford. Deputy Conlon outlined how the Opposition should behave in a responsible fashion but in the past five or six years we pointed out that Government spending was unsustainable. We had responsible opposition but the Government took no responsibility. The boom and bust policies of the past seven years, not the 1980s, are a major contributory factor to the position in which we find ourselves. I object to the content of the motion which is unfair and unbalanced, particularly as it affects low paid public servants who will only be in receipt of the State contributory pension when they retire. It is totally unfair to ask those on such a low income to contribute to address something that is completely not of their making. I accept spending cuts of \2 billion are needed but an across the board levy should not have been introduced. The cuts should have been approached in a manner that would have placed a greater burden on higher earners. Many who entered the public service in recent years are contributing at a higher rate to their pensions but they are being asked to carry an additional burden. Fine Gael’s amendment objects to what we perceive to be an unfair levy and we are seeking to have it renegotiated to redistribute the burden. Many are losing jobs in the private sector. As I stated in the House prior to the Christmas recess, anyone who feels his or her job is secure is lucky. Those who have been let go face significant mortgage repayments and have no idea how they will meet them. We need to focus on those who are unemployed or whose jobs are threatened. The haemorrhage of jobs in the private sector is a serious issue and I wish we had heard something from the Taoiseach yesterday about how the Government would address it. We heard nothing and the Government’s only approach is to cut and slash pay without a mention of increasing productivity and reducing wastage and bureaucracy in the public sector. I am member of the Committee of Public

504 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Accounts which is preparing a report following hearings into non-adherence to procurement policies in FA´ S. I have spoken to many constituents today and the fact that the heaving bureaucracy attached to this House, its committees and Ministers of State was not addressed is driving people insane. It should have been addressed first or in tandem with the cutbacks. We heard nothing about it which is a sad reflection on the Government whose attitude is to cut and carry on regardless. I support the Fine Gael amendment which is much more constructive than the Government motion and which addresses the issues we are facing.

Deputy Billy Timmins: I do not recall a boom in the 1980s. However, we only have to go back to the past few months to find a boom and bust cycle. We are here not because of the global downturn but because of the failure of the Government on three fronts: first, the failure to manage the public finances; second, the failure to regulate the banks and, third, the failure to ensure we have a competitive economy, particularly in export markets. Public servants had the stomach for cuts. The private sector pays for the public sector and has taken a hit in recent times. There was a willingness but, once again, the Government has got it spectacularly wrong. History will show it doubled the national debt within a few weeks. The lady or gentleman who earns \15,000 a year and went into Government Buildings or the Departments of Finance and Education and Science this morning to put on plastic gloves to clean the offices will give up \40 a month. Those are the people being hit by this package of measures, which is why we in Fine Gael are totally and utterly opposed to it. Once again it hits those who are most vulnerable. Regarding Irish Aid, I accept GNP has contracted here as it has across the globe. The 1 billion people who go to bed hungry every night have suffered as a result of the downturn in the global economy. These people are not participants in the global economy. Once again it concerns the poor and the weaker. We need to re-evaluate how we distribute Irish aid to get the best value for money. I listened to the Minister, Deputy Gormley, talk about the reform of Da´il practices. For a number of years I have been calling for the reform of Oireachtas committees. If the Minister and the Taoiseach want efficiencies, they should look at the diaries of Ministers. They are in Kiltimagh at 11 a.m. opening a school, in Birr opening a shop in the afternoon 6 o’clock and somewhere else in the evening. The same happens on Thursdays and Fridays. Is that any way to use those human resources? How can a Minister do his or her job? The recent Governments led in the main by the former Taoiseach and with the current Taoiseach as Minister for Finance went on a PR junket for the past 11 years and we are paying the price today. If the Minister, Deputy Gormley, has the courage of his convictions he should introduce a ban on Ministers traipsing around the country at the taxpayers’ expense and putting on a display of PR instead of being in their Departments running them. They should not have handlers or civil servants doing the job. The job has been done quite badly. The Minister is responsible. Let him take the responsibility and do it. That is the reform that he has the power and authority to do. He is a member of Government and is no longer sitting over here on the sidelines pontificating as he did for a number of years. We need to stop Ministers going around the place on junkets and keep them in their Departments to do their jobs.

Deputy Seymour Crawford: I welcome the opportunity to speak on this extremely important issue. Unfortunately, it took the Government so long to make up its mind that much of our credibility and money has been lost in recent months. The proposals themselves raise major questions about the thought process of those involved. Those on quite low incomes have been

505 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Seymour Crawford.] asked to pay a pension levy that will never be of benefit to them. This will clearly put further pressure on the low and middle-income earners who are already classified by CORI, whose representatives appeared before the Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs today, and other organisations as the new poor because of their high mortgage costs, etc. This package, introduced in the first days of February when we have now learnt that 36,500 more people joined dole queues in January, gives no support or impetus towards job creation. According to the Taoiseach’s figures the additional 36,500 will cost the Exchequer more than \700 million in social welfare payments and revenue lost through PAYE and PRSI in a single year. In turn, this represents more than half of the payments the Taoiseach is taking from the public service in pension charges. This is why it is essential for the Government to make proposals to give constructive support for industry and employment in general such as those made by my party leader Deputy Kenny during Leaders’ Questions this morning. This week I visited a shop in Monaghan. While it looked the same as the last time I had been there, when I talked to the staff I discovered that one was on a two-day week and the other on a three-day week. They are all sharing time to try to keep their jobs. This is an indication of the problems in the retail and manufacturing sector throughout the country. The Government can no longer ignore the haemorrhage of business to Northern Ireland caused in the main by the VAT difference but also because of our lack of competitiveness through higher costs. In recent years I along with others have been highlighting the serious problem of our ESB and general energy charges. Unbelievably the Government supported the energy regulator every time fuel prices increased owing to so-called “external factors”. However, when oil prices collapsed there was no rush to bring down prices. On Friday I travelled from Cavan town to Limerick. On that journey I passed a number of petrol stations. The prices ranged from 89 cent per litre to 99.9 cent, which is a differential of 45 cent per gallon. There is no effort to control these costs. We are uncompetitive and this proposal makes no attempt to address that.

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Martin Mansergh): It was very important that decisions were taken without further delay to start to remedy the gaping hole in the public finances. Ireland’s credit worthiness is essential to sustain public services and jobs. The decisions announced yesterday did not just save \1.8 billion this year or \2 billion in a full year, but also provided the first \1 billion savings of the \4 billion that will be needed next year. Across the world there is a confluence of banking crisis, widening budgetary deficits, and sharp decline of growth and employment. Every country has been hit unexpectedly. Every country has needed to react on more than one occasion and sometimes revisit decisions made at an earlier point. No country has turned the corner. Unlike in previous recessions, where some countries were relatively unaffected and therefore able to provide a stimulus to the rest, unfortunately, that is not the case in this instance. Ireland has been particularly badly affected perhaps because the boom was so strong and prolonged. As a society, including Government and all sides of the Da´il, very few anticipated the exceptionally hard landing we have had. I accept there were one or two isolated voices. Despite prudently putting aside considerable revenues into the National Treasury Manage- ment Agency and also encouraging private savings, we built up services and incomes to a level that we are now unable to sustain. During the last general election campaign promises were made on all sides of tax cuts and concessions, which in the light of today seem surreal. However, they were made on the assumption of continued growth of approximately 4% or 5%.

506 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Great demands are being made on the Government from every sector of society and the economy when, as recently as a couple of years ago, neo-liberal commentators were half wondering whether government was really necessary at all. We need to focus as far as possible on maintenance of essential services and jobs, including investments that will help sustain jobs now and in the future. We cannot sustain incomes at the levels that existed until very recently. The Government has a choice of maintaining incomes or jobs. Once jobs are lost they are very hard to recover. The clear choice made has been to put the priority on jobs rather than income maintenance. To legislators across the world it is repugnant in many ways to be bailing out a banking sector from the excesses and greed of some of its higher echelons.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Hear, hear.

Deputy Martin Mansergh: However, the economy cannot function without banks. We needed to nationalise one and support others. I refer to an article in Der Spiegel which states: “Somet- imes, unfortunately, it is the case that one must temporarily satisfy private interests to avert far greater damage to the common good”. One would like to know what the alternative is or was. How would allowing our banking system to collapse help in any way the interests of people? It would cause chaos. Social partnership has been a major achievement of the past 21 years. It has been vital to the success of the economy. It is not perfect but it has helped in particular to address many crises that have arisen in that 21-year period. I welcome the fact that a common analysis of what needs to be done in broad terms was accepted, even if not the detail of the conclusions. Last night at his press conference, the Taoiseach was very insistent that his door would continue to be open to the social partners but ultimately the Government has the responsibility to decide. Unlike many commentators, unlike in particular the Fine Gael Party opposite, I do not see consultations with the social partners as detracting from parliamentary democracy. It is terribly reductionist just to reduce democracy to elected chambers national and local. My definition of a democracy would be the widest possible participation——

Deputy Billy Timmins: We are paying for deals done behind closed doors for the past ten years by the Government.

Deputy Martin Mansergh: Social partnership is a relatively——

Deputy Billy Timmins: We do not know how benchmarking was ever arrived at.

Deputy Martin Mansergh: One of the differences between Fine Gael and Fianna Fa´il is that Fine Gael has no real commitment to social partnership. Most of the growth and the doubling of employment was due to social partnership.

Deputy Billy Timmins: That is what we are paying for.

Deputy Martin Mansergh: One of the reasons for the failure of the Fine Gael-Labour Government was because it rejected the social partnership model.

Deputy Billy Timmins: What about the bankers? We are signing blank cheques and we are sick of it.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Joe Costello): Deputy Timmins should allow the Minister of State to continue uninterrupted.

507 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Martin Mansergh: I am proud in that respect to belong to what I conceive as the social democratic tradition. I accept there are other traditions. It is perfectly understandable that the Opposition wishes to steer clear of supporting unpopular decisions and to keep its powder dry and I do not criticise it for this. The Government, however, has the responsibility, if necessary on its own, to do what is necessary. We have to strive for equity but it is impossible to get complete consensus on what equity is in given situations. One of the measures I welcome is the reduction in professional fees because those had risen to quite exorbitant levels. One of the alternatives put forward regularly by the party opposite, Fine Gael, is that increments should have been frozen. It should be pointed out that although senior levels of the public service do not enjoy increments they are particularly important to low paid public servants. When we hear arguments about equity we should bear that in mind. With regard to the demand for a plan for the next five years, the scale of the problem has been outlined. In the coming year, both the Commission on Taxation and what is popularly known as an bord snip, will be preparing for the budget next year which will have to reduce the deficit by another \4 billion, and \1 billion is already provided for in the decisions taken. In the very fast-moving situation, to demand, as has been demanded, that there be a complete plan in detail in the next five years is utterly unrealistic. It is necessary to proceed empirically, vis-a`-vis a fast-moving situation.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: The Government does not have a plan for the next five days.

Deputy Martin Mansergh: A previous speaker spoke about reducing the costs of government in general and the Oireachtas, in particular. We plan to reduce the cost of procurement in my area of responsibility. We are also looking at the expenses of this House and, in particular, there will be no capital expenditure on this House, other than essential maintenance. There has been a demand from the other party opposite, the Labour Party, for an election. That would simply be a diversion and a form of escapism. We have to bite the bullet and get on with it now.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: The Government knows the result.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: I wish to share time with Deputy Michael D. Higgins.

Acting Chairman: Agreed.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: I will begin with the closing point of the Minister of State. We need an election because the current Government has no mandate for what it is doing. The notion that any democrat would regard seeking the view of the people and the endorsement of the people for such a policy platform as some sort of diversion is somebody who does not understand the meaning of a democratic mandate. We are in a catastrophic economic situation. Everybody in this House knows that and the people know it. The Government wants to couch our economic catastrophe in some sort of world vision that it is not our own doing or the doings of this Government, but that somehow it is somebody else’s fault. However, largely our problems have been caused by a Government that changed an export-driven, job-focused economy in 2001 into a speculation economy, driven by speculation in land and property prices, coaxed on by the friends of Fianna Fa´il and allowing windfall profits of unimaginable sums to be given to some small cohort of individuals in the State. The economic commentariat, who were among the cheerleaders for that economic policy of property speculation, have managed in the last short while to switch the focus away from those who caused our economic woes onto

508 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) those who certainly did not and that is the public sector who are in no way responsible for our economic situation. There is palpable anger among all public servants who are enraged not only at the scale of the financial imposition upon them but also by the way their service has been devalued and dismissed. They are being characterised by some as, “drones dragging down our economy” and it is a disgrace that this would be the case. The divisions being stoked between public and private workers is a hornet’s nest that will do great damage to the country. In the minute or two of my time I want to talk, not about the economic plan presented to us, because we have no economic plan, but about the levy which is not, as has been characterised, a pensions levy but rather a pay levy on one sector of the economy, the public sector. I have spoken to dozens of people today. Some are really dismayed. A part-time cleaner in the public service earning \17,000 a year will be required to pay \510, one and a half week’s wages, out of her miserable wage. That is not fair, not equitable and not acceptable. The levy is not pension-related. Gross income is to be tabulated into the levy. Overtime, premium payments, payments that are not calculated for pension purposes, should not therefore be encompassed by the levy. The Minister for Defence was unable to answer a simple question at Question Time as to whether, for example, overseas military service allowance was to be included. Will the allowance paid to our soldiers in Chad be included? The Minister for Defence does not know. That is how well thought out this income levy dressed up as a pensions levy is. It is a crude and unfair system. It is clear, however, that the public pay bill must be addressed. It can be addressed in a fair way but the Government has not gone about doing it in this measure. In the time remaining I want to deal with one other issue, that is, the assault on overseas development aid. I say this as someone who worked for some time in a voluntary capacity in Africa. It is dishonourable that solemn commitments twice given to increase our overseas development aid budget incrementally over time are to be among the first casualties. The poorest of the poor, those who literally cannot feed themselves, are to be casualties of the cuts. That is reprehensible and disgraceful. I ask the Government to forge a consensus of social solidarity to address in an effective way the serious problems that face us. The Labour Party will assist in this, but the division of society between public and private workers and the characterisation of some as drones will be a disastrous way to set about it. That is what has happened on the part of the Government to date.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: I welcome the opportunity of contributing to the debate, even if I am confined to five minutes. I find this process entirely unsatisfactory for analysing the position in which we find ourselves in the economy and any strategy we might adopt. I support the remarks just made by Deputy Howlin on overseas development aid. We have moved from a commitment to provide 0.55% of GNP two years ago to 0.53% now. If one wanted to make the cuts announced proportionate across the board, the cut in ODA is \38 million more than anything else. It has carried more than its share, even of the most unjustifi- able cuts, and affects the poorest of the poor. I want to take up an issue raised in the contributions I have just heard from speakers on the Government side. The word “empirical” was used by the Minister of State but what is empirical? Just over a year ago the National Pensions Reserve Fund was worth \21 billion. I recall the debates on the fund in previous Da´ilanna. The Labour Party was once attacked for suggesting we should lean on it to fund school, road and crucial infrastructural projects. Across society it was said we must not touch the fund. Last year it lost \5 billion. The people who presided over that loss received a fee payment of \20 million. Of the \16 billion remaining, half is

509 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Michael D. Higgins.] required for the recapitalisation of the banks in circumstances in which we do not know the extent of the asset exposure of the banks. That is empirical. At the same time, a person working in the public service whose income and family circumstances means he or she qualifies for family income supplement will lose twice as much under the income levy as he or she is receiving in family income supplement. These are facts. Not a single group has been moved from the top echelons of the celebrity culture of speculation put in place in the boardrooms of the banks. It is a great scandal that in interviews our independent media will ask the people concerned if they are distressed or upset and if they will continue on, to which they will reply they intend to go on as they are. The Government has done nothing to call to account this group which damaged the reputation of Ireland for this and future generations. Those looking on are asking about the quality of the arguments that allow the people concerned to stay in place. The Government should not insult our intelligence by suggesting any of us who has spent a lifetime in politics does not know the importance of a banking system but what we want is a credible system. We do not want a system that rewards itself disproportionately, even in the worst of times, that refuses to call its income “income” but “compensation”, and that, even as the Government is attacking the public service, continues to issue bonuses and privileges to those in the boardroom. County and city managers are constructing schedules of workers who are to be let go. We should begin with those who are on the road but they still keep the racket of paying bonuses going. Consultancy fees were not the first to go. Why is this happening? It is happening because the media, when it was building up to this, did not point out that public servants were already contributing to their pensions. Even as late as yesterday evening, on the 6 p.m. news, RTE could not get it right. It did not point out that the new levy on income — that is what it is because there are people who are not drawing pensions and will not draw one who will be paying the levy — was additional to what they were paying. Thus, for weeks the notion was built that there was something wrong with the worker who choses to work in the public realm——

Deputy Brendan Howlin: That is right.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: ——be it as a nurse or a garda. It is with great sadness I say Fianna Fa´il, the party which used its old clientele system to put so many of them in place, is the one leading the attack on the concept of the public service worker.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: Hear, hear.

Deputy Martin Mansergh: That is not true.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: Regarding proposals for an extension of the tax base, the old prayer we heard from the Government was that it would let the Commission on Taxation come up with proposals and that then it would be moved to act on the super-rich. Where are the proposals from the Government which knows the people concerned very well? It knows the people who approached the former Minister, Charlie McCreevy, when he was preparing his five budgets that were driven by property related tax incentives. It knows the people whom he met before he went to Brussels and left with his final valedictory statement to his friends, “party on.” It knows where to go for the money. Why does it not go to that source for it instead of attacking the middle and the lower paid?

Acting Chairman (Deputy Joe Costello): The Deputy must conclude.

510 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: That is a pity.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins: The characteristic of the Labour Party amendment we have circulated emphasises the importance of employment, job protection and creation. This is the choice facing people on the right and the left in politics. Does the Government state to somebody who is providing care that he or she is drawing a social welfare payment to which he or she is not entitled or does it state he or she is a worker in the caring economy? We must protect and create jobs in the green economy and regard all those engaged in caring activities as working in the social caring economy. That is the way to come out of the recession, not by attacking the most vulnerable and the weakest, while at the same time the celebrity culture of speculation rattles on.

Deputy Emmet Stagg: Hear, hear.

Deputy Niall Blaney: I wish to share time with Deputy Byrne.

Acting Chairman: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Niall Blaney: I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate on the serious condition of the economy and the expenditure measures proposed for the stabilisation of the public finances. Some of the last contributions from the Opposition benches were farcical.

A Deputy: Hear, hear.

Deputy Niall Blaney: They were bags of wind. While we heard about stimulus packages and so on being provided, we did not get one proposal from the Opposition. This morning Deputy Gilmore spoke about a stimulus package. He does not recognise the national development plan as such a package.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: Correct.

Deputy Niall Blaney: What does he think it is?

Deputy Joan Burton: It has been in place for the past six years.

Deputy Niall Blaney: Does he not see the benefits it is providing? Where does he intend to find the extra——

(Interruptions).

Deputy Niall Blaney: I listened to your contribution and you can listen to mine. You should have some manners.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: The Deputy must speak through the Chair. That is the way we operate in the House.

Deputy Niall Blaney: I did not interrupt the Deputy. I let him have his say; he should show me the same respect. Where does the Opposition expect to get the money to fund the extra stimulus packages? What schools building projects, health services or parts of the national development programme does the Opposition want to cut to do this? These must be spelled out, yet the Opposition does not have the guts to do so.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: We want to cut out the waste.

511 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Paul Connaughton: We want to get people back to work.

Deputy Niall Blaney: The Opposition does not have the guts to tell us how it would provide extra moneys. It would not have the guts to come forward like the Taoiseach yesterday with his proposals. If the Opposition were on this side of the House, the economy would be in a mess.

Deputy Paul Connaughton: It took the Taoiseach a long time to go out and meet the people yesterday.

Deputy Niall Blaney: The Opposition does not have the guts for it. It has been a tough week for all of us as a nation. Tough decisions have had to be made. We would prefer not to have to take them but, unfortunately, in these exceptional circumstances they had to be made. The message must be sent that they have not been taken lightly. They were taken in the realisation of the hardship that would be caused as a result. Most of all, they have been taken as a necessity. Yesterday, after the Taoiseach had made his statement, Deputy Kenny claimed the banks were bust. It was one of the most reckless statements made in the House.

Deputy Thomas Byrne: Hear, hear.

Deputy Niall Blaney: It was responsible for banking stocks further collapsing this morning on the markets . All developers are not bust, another wrong statement made by Deputy Kenny.

Deputy Paul Connaughton: That is it. Blame everyone else except themselves.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: Deputy Blaney did give a standing ovation to the Budget Statement.

Deputy Niall Blaney: Both the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance referred to the wrong- doing on the part of the heads of the financial institutions being dealt with in due course. There is an anxiety among the public that some will get off scot free. They will not. Getting the economy back to square one is the priority for now. Those individuals in the banking institutions will be dealt with in due course. The measures introduced in the House yesterday by the Taoiseach were taken because no other options were available to reduce current spending. We are all affected by them and know others who are also affected. This is not an attempt to punish the public sector or drive a wedge between it and the private sector. It is an attempt to stabilise the economy in order that we can again enjoy a prosperous one in the future. I did not see any proposal from the Opposition to do the same. There has been much criticism from Opposition parties. We know how easy it is to criticise. The Opposition has proved its worth with its lack of credibility in any of the alternative suggestions it has offered in the past few months. This is a time for support across the board, not criticism. Does the Opposition realise the seriousness of our situation? If it does, it is time it got on board and offered something constructive. Each week abuse is shouted at Ministers. That is not what the people want. They want to see informed and constructive debate and it is time they had it. They realise the seriousness of our situation because they are feeling it. They deserve more than a shouting match in Parliament. The blame game must stop if we are to bring the economy back to what we once enjoyed. We will have to work together. We are in a global recession and not alone with the problems we face. However, we must work with the strategies devised by the Government to address the problems we face.

512 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

The new pension levy will be treated for tax purposes which means it will be effectively relieved of tax at the marginal rate. There has been much disquiet among workers in the public sector, which we understand. Everybody in the economy, however, is suffering. Those in the private sector have been suffering pain for several months, with many of them losing their jobs. I hope common sense will prevail in the Chamber before not too long and that we will work with the Taoiseach and the Government in tackling these problems.

Deputy Thomas Byrne: The Opposition should reserve its anger at the Government for a general election. That is the time to get even with the it and lay its cards on the table.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: The sooner, the better.

Deputy Paul Connaughton: It might be sooner than the Deputy thinks.

Deputy Thomas Byrne: This energy being expended against the Government would be better expended in coming up with ideas as to how to get the public finances back on track. The Opposition has been short of ideas so far.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: We have bags of them.

Deputy Thomas Byrne: It has no idea how to get the finances back on track. Both Opposition parties have agreed the public pay bill should be reduced but they have not said how it could be done.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: I did it my way.

Deputy Thomas Byrne: The reality is that any worker who was let go from, say Dell, would take up a part-time job on \17,500.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: My God.

Deputy Thomas Byrne: The Opposition talks about attacking the most vulnerable. Nurses and teachers are not vulnerable. They are public servants. Vulnerable persons are those who have lost their jobs.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: The Deputy is going well now.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: Let him at it.

Deputy Thomas Byrne: The term should be reserved for those who are genuinely vulnerable. Someone who has lost his or her job would gladly take a part-time wage of \17,500. I accept it may not be the best job and that it is a low wage but the Deputy referred to it as a part- time job.

Deputy Brendan Howlin: The Deputy is losing his grasp of reality.

Deputy Thomas Byrne: Deputy Howlin is detached from reality if he believes an unemployed person would not grab such a job in current economic circumstances. The shocking reality is that people are losing their jobs and the most vulnerable are not middle income public servants. The vulnerable are the unemployed who are struggling. Deputies Higgins and Howlin never referred to the fact that the people who are losing their jobs are the ones on which we must focus. If we do not get the public finances back in order and maintain our triple A credit rating, investors will not come to Ireland. In turn, the research and development export driven economy which the Labour Party advocates will not be developed.

513 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Thomas Byrne.]

There is much anger about the cuts in the overseas development aid budget, about which I have just come off the telephone with a constituent. The anger ignores the fact that all the money for the budget is borrowed. I accept it is badly needed in poor countries and that it is a matter of life and death. However, Ireland still spends more of its national wealth, up to 0.54% of gross domestic product with a 0.7% target, on overseas development than any other country, yet it is all borrowed money. For how long can we go on increasing the budget when we have serious problems at home? Fianna Fa´il has supported public servants during the years. While most of them are not happy about the substantial levy imposed, they have family members in the private sector who have either lost their jobs or taken larger pay cuts.

Deputy Paul Connaughton: Of course, they are unhappy.

Deputy Thomas Byrne: Unless those private sector workers are working, there will be no taxes coming in to pay public servants. The majority of public servants understand this. We must get the public finances and the economy back in shape or nothing else will happen. I welcome the level of capital spending in which the Government has engaged. No other country in the developed world is spending such a percentage of national wealth on capital projects. Roads are being built in Meath East, with new rail lines being planned for it.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: Planned is right.

Deputy Thomas Byrne: I want more schools to be built in the constituency with small building firms getting the tenders for the projects. It has been brought to my attention that companies from abroad or larger companies — the big boys who did very well as we are constantly reminded by the Opposition — are now tendering for small building projects. I want to see a fairer chance for small local building firms to get the contracts for local projects. The Opposition, particularly the Labour Party, will criticise developers’ alleged links with Fianna Fa´il. Does it want development to stop and no employment in the construction industry? Many in Meath East want to see more development and employment in the industry. They want to see more schools and offices built that will be occupied by companies coming to Ireland. Someone must develop these projects.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: I wish to share time with Deputies Sheehan and Connaughton.

Acting Chairman: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: The State’s finances are in a critical position. The public relations spin from the Government in the past six months is that this is a global recession. Current economic circumstances in Ireland, however, have been caused by the Fianna Fa´il- Progressive Democrats-Green Party Governments of the past ten years. They squandered taxpayers’ money, leaving a shortfall of \2 billion in balancing the books. It will be worse in the next three years with annual savings of \4 billion being required. Bad as it is now, it will be twice as bad in the next three years, whichever party is in government. The sad part is that this was predicted two years ago by many economists, yet the Government kept its eyes shut, pretending everything was okay because it wanted to win the general election and cling to power. Perhaps it is a little sorry now because if it had taken the necessary steps two years ago, we would not be in these sorry circumstances and the remedial measures would not be so severe. The saddest spectacle was this morning in the Da´il after the Leader of the Opposition,

514 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Kenny, and the leader of the Labour Party, Deputy Gilmore, had offered in a constructive manner to sit down with the Government to work out a solution. The party leaders acted in the national interest and it was sad and regrettable to see the Taoiseach rejecting their offer. The Deputies opposite asked what proposals we had but we have not had an opportunity to put forward any to find an all-party solution to the problem; the advance made this morning was clearly rejected. There is a belief in the media that people are ready to take hard decisions. People may be ready to play their part but only if the burden is shared equally. By no means does the Govern- ment do this. The hardest hit by these proposals are wage earners in the \30,000 to \50,000 bracket; they were hit first by the 1% levy and have now been affected by the new proposals. At the same time, the Government has bailed out the banks which are partly responsible for our dilemma to the tune of \8 billion. However, it has not capped the truly extravagant and outlandish salaries, bonuses and expenses of the top earners. Will the Minister indicate if any bonuses have been paid to bank staff or other managers in local government or the HSE since the guarantee scheme was put in place? President Obama has set a cap of \370,000 in America. The chief executive of Bank of Ireland, Mr. Brian Goggin, earns \4 million a year or \59,600 a week; Mr. David Drum of Anglo Irish Bank earned \3.2 million per year or \46,173 per week; Mr. Eugene Sheehy of AIB earns \2.1 million or \30,288 per week; Mr. Michael Fingleton of Irish Nationwide earns \2.3 million per year or \42,307 per week; Mr. Denis Casey of Perma- nent TSB earns \1.3 million or \25,000 per week. Even with a reduction of 25% in salary which was suggested today, they would still be earning millions a year, or more in one week than most earn in a year. The unfairness of it all is the reason people refuse to accept the proposals. They are waiting for their chance in the next election no matter what Deputies on the opposite side of the House say, whether that election is held in June or beforehand. The Government has much to answer for.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: Yesterday the Taoiseach came into the House and, effectively, took between \3,500 and \4,000 per annum from the pockets of public service workers. I was contacted today by members of the public service and it is costing some up to \114 or \116 per week. The public service did not cause the current problems but there was an agenda driven by the media, in coalition with the Government, to nail public servants. The circulation of daily newspapers is down by in excess of 30% because all people are reading is bad news as the print media run with the Government agenda. Why are we here and why is the country in the state it is? It is the bubble created by the Government, developers and bankers. In the Bacon report of June 2000 the Government was warned that it was creating a bubble, as opportunists were buying properties with the tax-free allowance given for properties built and the tax incentives given by the Government to developers to build massive housing schemes and hotels.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: They are all closed.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: The Government did not realise until September or October 2008 that there was a problem with the economy but the 2006 census indicated that there were 215,000 unoccupied houses in the country.

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: And empty hotels.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: The Government was driving on to build 90,000 units a year, even though there were 215,000 unoccupied houses in the country, yet we are told it did not see it coming.

515 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Tom Sheahan.]

What must be done now? Throughout the country people working for companies are being laid off or put on a three-day week. The Government should create an initiative in employment maintenance whereby people working three days a week would stay in employment for five days a week with the Government paying for two days rather than unemployment benefit. This would improve the productivity of the companies concerned. I am being positive and trying to help. We must consider people who are out of employment for longer than six months. As an incentive to employers, the Government should pay \100 a week of their wages if they find employment. That would save the Government the cost of paying them unemployment benefit of \220 or \230 per week. It would be both positive and a pro-business action. I have heard people show resentment — almost turning to racism — to non-nationals claiming benefits. In Poland benefits are halved after six months and stopped completely after 12 months. We must consider such a measure.

Deputy Paul Connaughton: I have been in the House a long time and yesterday was as rough a day as I have ever seen for public service workers. Like the rest of us, they know that the country is in dire financial straits. They know, as I do, that they did not in cause the problem.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: Correct.

Deputy Paul Connaughton: That is the problem the Minister of State present will encounter when he travels around the country to defend what the Government has done. People comment on the unfairness of these measures, which started last October — rather than yesterday — when the budget was delivered. At the time the Government saw no difference between a person earning \17,000 and \99,000 as far as the 1% levy was concerned.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: Hear, hear.

Deputy Paul Connaughton: It could not see any difference yesterday either, which is a problem. We know the country is in a terrible state. I never thought I would see a time when 36,000 would lose their jobs in one month. There is talk of 400,000 being out of a job at the end of the year. If events unfold at the same rate, we will be in the unspeakable and unthinkable realm of having 500,000 out of work next year. I sincerely hope that day will never come, as it would create havoc. Whatever the Government does, it must be fair to the people. Everybody knows we have a significant job on our hands. The one thing Irish people will never stand for is being treated unfairly.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: Hear, hear.

Deputy Paul Connaughton: When they see the people who created the problem——

Deputy Pa´draic McCormack: Banks and the Government.

Deputy Paul Connaughton: ——bankers and big builders — getting off scot free, while those who keep the country going are screwed into the ground, the Government will have a problem on its hands.

Deputy Dara Calleary: I wish to share time with Deputy Beverly Flynn.

516 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Acting Chairman: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Dara Calleary: Something which was agreed by the social partners in the past few weeks was that we required a \2 billion saving this year. This is accepted in the Fine Gael motion and the Government amendment. When one considers that the breakdown of Govern- ment spending is \20 billion for social welfare, \20 billion for pay and \15 billion for the capital programme, one realises that the options in identifying \2 billion in savings are limited. We cannot, as every previous speaker stated, reduce the social welfare budget, particularly in the light of the huge demands being placed on it. Our capital programme is essential in order to address the problems in and reignite the economy. It is unfortunate, therefore, that we have been obliged to consider reductions in the \20 billion public service bill. No one is stating the public service caused the financial crisis. Some 99% of those who work in the public service contributed to the growth of the country through their hard work and endeavour. However, it is unfortunate that in addressing issues relating toGovernment expenditure and the need to reduce it we have been obliged to consider the position vis-a`-vis the public service. It is important to emphasise that the pension contribution is tax deductible. The nature of the contribution means that it will reduce the level of income at which PRSI and levies are paid. As a result, the bulk of headline reductions are not as major as may seem. It is also unfortunate that we have been obliged to reduce the level of overseas development aid, ODA. However, it is important to remember that Ireland’s position in the world as a per capita donor remains hugely significant. A former Member of the House who once had responsibility in this area would have been satisfied to have had the amount by which our contribution is being reduced as the overall ODA budget. The decision to increase funding for the capital investment programme which was announced yesterday is particularly welcome. In effect, this is the stimulus package so many are seeking. I am especially happy with a number of the increases announced by the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Finneran, in my home town of Ballina last weekend. A development for which the town has been waiting 25 years has finally been given the go-ahead. I refer to the construction of 75 social houses for the most vulnerable in the town. Yesterday’s decision to allocate further funds for the schools building programme is particularly welcome. I commend the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O’Keeffe, in this regard. I hope the additional funding can be utilised to speed up projects which have been delayed for many years. We can increase the value of this investment and that of the entire public capital programme by considering different ways of building schools. We should use the downturn in the construction sector which is associated with developers in possession of large land banks. We must encourage them to open them up. We must also open up the schools building and other programmes to developers to become involved in community-based projects on a build and lease back basis. This approach would require an entirely lower level of up- front capital than is needed under the current model. In addition, it would provide employment for construction workers and opportunities for apprenticeships and ease the pressure not only in respect of schools but also with regard to building social welfare offices and other capital projects. We should use the downturn to obtain more money for less. The savings identified yesterday in respect of the capital programme are evidence of the success of that approach. As one of the largest purchasers in the economy, the State should go in much harder in respect of this matter.

517 Stabilisation of the Public Finances: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Dara Calleary.]

Deputy Byrne referred to a matter to which I have referred previously, namely, the very restrictive tendering process that applies in respect of these projects which was introduced in different times. It must be reviewed as a matter of urgency. Small builders are no longer gaining access to Government projects. As these are now the only projects proceeding, such builders depend upon them. It is the small builders who are keeping apprentices and tradesmen in jobs locally. Members have expressed their frustration about the fact that those who, in the eyes of many, caused the financial crisis are getting away with it. I share that frustration. Since before Christmas there has been a great deal of evidence of a complete collapse in standards in some business operations. It is unfortunate the majority of business people who adhered to their responsibilities, etc., are being dragged down as a result of what has happened. Certain examples of corporate behaviour that have been exposed have given rise to a complete collapse in trust. Further action should be taken in respect of this matter. Deputy McCormack referred to our bailing out the banks. Let us nail that myth. We have not bailed out any bank. The bank guarantee scheme is being offered at a fee. The bank recapitalisation due to take place is happening because businesses cannot get money and mortgages cannot be approved because of the fact that the banks cannot obtain capital. We are bailing out businesses and mortgage holders, namely, those who need loans and access to finance. The banks will also pay a fee in respect of recapitalisation. We are not bailing out the big boys, but those who provide local employment.

Deputy Beverley Flynn: I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. The Minister for Finance has set out in stark terms the position in which we find ourselves. It costs \55 billion to run Ireland in a given year. Our tax receipts are down to \37 billion. We are borrowing, not just for capital projects, but also to meet day-to-day expenses and pay nurses, gardaı´ and teachers. We cannot continue to do this for the next number of years because to do so is simply not sustainable. The Minister has outlined exactly how the \55 million to which I refer is spent. Some \20 billion is used to pay for social welfare. It emerged earlier today that 36,500 people lost their jobs in January. As a result, it will be difficult, nay impossible, to make any savings in the area of social welfare. If anything, expenditure is going to increase. Some \15 billion is being invested in the capital programme. This programme is badly needed, particularly at a time when the construction industry is on its knees and so many are out of work. It is critically important that our investment, whether it be in the construction of roads, infrastructure or schools, continue. As Deputy Calleary stated, the final \20 billion goes on public sector pay. It is important to state a painful decision was taken yesterday.

Deputy James Bannon: The Deputy also had to make a painful decision.

Deputy Beverley Flynn: I thank the Deputy for pointing out the obvious. The decision to which I refer will have a major impact on public servants whose contribution is valued. I have the height of admiration for nurses and stood with them when they sought additional pay. However, the sad reality is that public servants can only be paid if sufficient money is garnered from tax receipts. The advantages they have over those in the private sector are job security and pensions. In the light of the fact that 36,500 people lost their jobs in January, the job security to which I refer cannot be underestimated.

518 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

It has been stated public servants did not contribute to the difficulties we now face. During the past 12 years when the economy improved, the public service expanded greatly and wages paid to those employed within it increased substantially. These wages must be paid from the wealth generated in the economy. That wealth is simply not being generated. While I accept that the decision taken by the Government was both painful and tough and will have a significant impact on these individuals — many of whom contacted me today—Iamoftheview that it will secure employment. Those working in the public service will come to realise that they will have jobs. The correction we are making is to try to assist the 36,500 who lost their jobs last month and others in returning to the jobs market and obtaining gainful employment. I do not like to see anyone attacking the public sector. Neither do I agree with pitting the private sector against the public sector. The latter was happening on every radio programme to which I listened today. Everybody must play his or her part. What was announced yesterday represents only half the equation. It has been acknowledged that a cut of \2 billion is required this year, that a saving of \4 billion will be required in both 2010 and 2011, that a saving of \3.5 billion will be needed in 2012 and that a saving of \3 billion will be necessary in 2013. That is a massive task and we can only deal with it if we work together in the belief we will be successful. The belief to which I refer is lacking throughout the country and in the House. If Members do not believe twe can be successful, it is difficult to expect ordinary citizens to believe we can solve this crisis and that by 2013 we will reach a position where tax receipts will equal expenditure and that there will no longer be a budget deficit. That is what we are trying to achieve. I am concerned about the other half of the equation — the stimulus required to generate wealth in the economy. It is not just all about cuts. We need to stimulate growth and get those in construction sector back to work. In the House the terms “construction” and “industry” have almost become dirty words. The sad reality is that we are dependent on 7 o’clock those involved in the industry to generate wealth. Many in the sector — carpen- ters, electricians, plasterers and bricklayers — are on poor wages. The vast majority are now out of work. A large number of my constituents depend on the sector for their living. “Construction” is not a dirty word in County Mayo and I would like the sector to be revived.

Debate adjourned.

Private Members’ Business.

————

Energy Prices: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Simon Coveney on Tuesday, 3 February 2009: That Da´il E´ ireann: — acknowledges that Irish households and businesses are burdened with some of the highest prices in the EU for electricity and gas; — recognises that energy costs are a key component of Irish economic competitiveness and that Ireland’s ability to develop and attract new business is suffering from high energy costs as reported by numerous business surveys by IDA Ireland, the Irish Management Institute and Forfa´s;

519 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

— notes that a discussion on reforming energy price regulation is currently ongoing between the social partners; — notes the decision of the Commission for Energy Regulation (CER) during July 2008 to grant electricity and gas price increases of 17.5% and of 20% respectively, due to spiralling oil prices at $147 a barrel; — is disappointed at the failure to reduce energy prices in the most recent review of prices as oil has collapsed by over 80% to approximately $40 a barrel; — notes that approximately 10% of every electricity bill is directly attributable to energy companies being compelled by the regulator to factor in the cost of carbon (emitted during generation) into their electricity pricing, despite the fact that they themselves are not currently required to pay for carbon allowances for emissions (until 2013 when a carbon trading market will function across the EU); — emphasises the fact that the regulator is required to set prices at a level that will not only take account of the cost of generation, transmission and supply but also at a level that will encourage new entrants into the market in an effort to promote competition and in doing so is keeping energy prices artificially high; — is concerned that the current regulatory regime is now damaging Irish cost competitiveness and adding to the challenges of recession; — is encouraged by the potential of reforming the energy regulatory environment to deliver price reductions and improve economic competitiveness, while incurring no additional cost on the Exchequer; — recognises that the energy sector must be central to any economic recovery plan, in terms of more competitive pricing and the creation of significant numbers of sustainable job opportunities in an exciting and rapidly developing renewable energy industry; and — recognises the importance of prioritising the case to maximise funding available to Ireland from the EU Commission Economic Stimulus Package, to subsidise the cost of upgrading Ireland’s electricity grid and interconnection between Ireland, the UK and mainland Europe in the future; calls on the Government to: — instruct the energy regulator to conduct, without delay, an extraordinary energy price review, as allowed by section 10 of the Electricity Regulation Act 1999 and section 7 of the Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2006; — change the regulatory framework for at least a two year period, to prioritise achieving the lowest possible energy prices for households and businesses; — either introduce a windfall profits tax to recoup unearned profits from energy companies, who earn up to \300 million a year from charging consumers for carbon emissions, or alternatively instruct the CER to remove the charge for carbon alto- gether from bills for the next two years; — instruct the regulator to set a price ceiling for ESB and Bord Ga´is prices and replace the current practice of setting a fixed actual price, in order to allow the ESB and Bord Ga´is to supply cheaper energy; — require the energy regulator to hold more comprehensive public hearings with oral submissions from interested parties, including consumer groups, in advance of any new proposed price review; and

520 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

— immediately introduce the promised legislation to transfer electricity transmission assets from ESB to EirGrid.”

Debate resumed on amendment No. 1: To delete all words after “Da´il E´ ireann” and substitute the following: “— recognises: — the global energy challenges faced by all countries in providing a competitive, secure and sustainable energy supply; — that Ireland faces particular acute challenges as an island nation on the periphery of the EU, which has a 90% energy import dependency and limited indigenous fossil fuel resources; — that global fossil fuel prices, especially for natural gas, are the single largest cost component in determining electricity prices in Ireland; — that the analysis published in January 2009, by the Commission for Energy Regu- lation (CER) shows how meeting the Government’s long-term renewable electricity targets will put downward pressure on energy prices; — that Ireland has developed a robust energy regulatory framework, which is bringing new entrants into a competitive electricity market and will also serve to help lower energy prices; — the actions taken by the CER and the ESB to cushion the impact on consumers of continuing volatility in international fuel prices; these actions included the adoption of a two-phase approach to tariffs in 2008 and the unprecedented rebate of almost \400 million from the ESB for the benefit of all electricity customers; — that the recently falling market price of gas and coal was integrated into the CER tariff decision effective from 1st January 2009, resulting in a small average reduction in electricity prices; and — that most large energy users are already offered fuel variation tariffs which track either natural gas prices or single electricity market prices and have therefore experienced significant recent reductions in electricity prices; commends the Government for: — its commitment to accelerated delivery on its energy policy priorities, including ongoing investment in energy infrastructure, ambitious targets for renewable energy to ensure diversity, a radical improvement in energy efficiency, and the continued focus on ensuring a competitive, transparent energy market which works for consumers; — tasking the CER to immediately review options for a possible early reduction in electricity and gas prices for businesses and domestic customers; — its prioritisation of electricity interconnection and grid development including the East-West Interconnector and the inclusion of the Interconnector in the list of projects under the proposed EU Economic recovery package; — its committed work in Europe in support of an open EU energy market ensuring that Ireland’s energy policy interests are protected and reflected in EU energy policy developments;

521 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

— its work in partnership with the NI authorities on the development of an all-island single electricity market and common arrangements for gas; — its commitment to begin an equitable and transparent process involving all stakeholders to transfer the electricity transmission assets from ESB to EirGrid, the independent State owned Transmission System Operator; — its provision in the Finance Act 2008 of energy efficiency tax incentives which were significantly expanded this year, its provision of significant budgets for the Home Energy Savings Scheme and Warmer Homes programmes, and a range of energy efficiency programmes for large industry users, SMEs and the public sector; and — continuing its range of policy measures that will provide job creation, investment opportunities and more competitive energy supplies for the wider economy.” —(Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources). Deputy Joe Costello: I wish to share time with Deputy Joanna Tuffy. I compliment Deputy Coveney and the Fine Gael Party on tabling this timely Private Members’ motion. I fully agree with the text of the motion apart from the final line to which the Labour Party has proposed an amendment. The energy sector is central to the well-being of the economy. The price of gas and oil greatly affects the cost and competitiveness of our industrial products. Irish households are burdened with exorbitant fuel costs. Electricity prices jumped by 17.5% and gas prices by 20% in July 2008 because oil prices had spiralled to between $140 and $150 per barrel. The bottom fell out of the oil market months ago and the price of a barrel is now in the region of $40 and is likely to remain at a low level as the recession continues to bite and demand collapses. Despite this, the Commission for Energy Regulation, CER, has not seen fit to review the increases and give some relief to hard pressed householders. The belated response from the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, yesterday when he indicated he expected a double digit reduction in fuel prices in 2009 is not good enough. It is unacceptable for the Minister to gaze into his crystal ball when no action has been taken. Prices should have been reduced long ago and the Minister is engaging in nothing more than a Pavlovian response to criticisms articulated in the debate on this motion. Yesterday, the Government hit every public sector worker, even those on the minimum wage, with a sledge hammer by introducing a new tax on their gross income. In such circumstances, it is unacceptable that energy costs to the taxpayer and business are much greater than they would be otherwise if a decent Minister was in charge of the system. It is ironic that the Government’s movement towards greater competition in the energy market has produced the opposite effect and energy has become more expensive. Ireland is dependent on imports for approximately 90% of its energy needs. Without nuclear power or significant fossil fuel resources, it is imperative to establish and secure new sources and channels of energy supply. The gas conflict between Russia and Ukraine demonstrated the vulnerability of Europe’s gas supplies. In this respect, it is essential that the east-west interconnector between Ireland, North and South, the United Kingdom and mainland Europe is developed with all haste. Funding of \1.4 billion is available from the European Union to complete this project. Through its economic stimulus package, the EU is making this fund available to help subsidise the cost of the interconnector, to upgrade Ireland’s electricity grid and to assist in the development of an all-island single electricity grid and market. Ireland must fully and urgently engage with the EU and draw down this money as quickly as possible and not deal with it in the way it has dealt with the money available from the European Investment

522 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Bank for small and medium size enterprises, which it has not yet begun to drawdown after four months. The real challenge lies with the threat of climate change and the need to create a source and reservoir of sustainable energy. In mid-December, the European Council and European Parliament approved a historic climate and energy package which provides for a 20% increase in the use of renewable energy, a 20% reduction in carbon dioxide emissions and a 20% increase in energy efficiency by 2020. Hydro-electricity is the original sustainable and renewable energy source in this country. Onshore wind energy is being developed in many areas but is not yet near its full potential. The Government must give full support to the development of this sector. Offshore wind energy is even less exploited. The European Union stimulus package makes available \500 million to help reduce the Union’s dependence on energy imports. The main potential lies with wave energy. An island nation is ideally positioned to benefit from harnessing wave and tidal energy. Such harnessing is expensive, complex and difficult and requires much investment and research. On 19 February, European Union Energy Ministers will discuss energy solidarity and the EU strategic energy review. In the context of the \200 billion EU stimulus package for economic recovery of member states, Ireland should seek an allocation of funds for offshore wave and tidal energy research and its translation into a powerful and sustainable energy resource which we could, at some point, feed back into the interconnector to supply Europe with renewable energy.

Deputy Joanna Tuffy: I propose to speak to the part of the motion which recognises that the energy sector must be central to any economic recovery plan and which refers to the creation of significant numbers of sustainable job opportunities. As Deputies will be aware, the Labour Party’s policy to address the current economic problems includes a proposal to put construction workers to work building badly needed school buildings. I will explain the connection between this proposal and the motion. The Government’s programme includes a commitment to require the public sector to lead the way on energy efficiency with a mandatory programme of efficiency measures, including the sole use of energy efficient lighting and heating in offices, schools and hospitals and other public buildings, to produce 33% energy savings by 2020. This commitment was made because Ireland is required under EU directives to make public buildings 33% more energy efficient by 2020. Two directives on energy efficiency and energy performance of buildings, respectively, include a key requirement that the public sector must assume an exemplary role. The latter directive is specific on public buildings, including school buildings. Ireland has some 4,000 school buildings which must be made more energy efficient if we are to meet EU requirements and realise the commitment made in the programme for Government. The Government has adopted policies, including the recommendations of the White Paper on energy, which include a commitment to make public buildings, including school buildings, 33% more energy efficient. The national energy efficiency action plan contains a similar commitment. The programme for Government includes a commitment to ensure new school buildings are more energy efficient. The energy efficiency requirement applies to old buildings as well as new buildings. The Government has done nothing to meet its commitment on energy efficiency in public buildings. It has not produced a plan and has instead placed the onus for making school buildings more energy efficient on schools without providing funding for this purpose. The summer works programme, which some schools used to cover the costs of insulating buildings, replacing

523 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Joanna Tuffy.] windows and so forth, was abandoned in 2007. The funding available to schools would not cover the costs of changing light bulbs. The standard of many of our old school buildings is poor. A report submitted to the Depart- ment of Education and Science last year found that a high proportion of school buildings are in poor condition. In a large number of them some or all classes are in prefabricated buildings. One school in my constituency has been using only prefabricated buildings for 14 years. These buildings waste heat and are cold in winter and hot in summer. Heating costs are substantial because they are energy inefficient, are not insulated and have thin walls. If the Labour Party proposal is put in place jobs can be created and people can be working and contributing to the tax system as they will be able to buy things in the economy. If money is put into school buildings it will help us to meet our targets to reduce carbon emissions and meet this target. If we do not meet these targets we will have to spend money on carbon credits or fines to the EU for not meeting our requirements. Money is saved by saving energy in buildings. The Government has made commitments but is doing nothing about them. We need to do something about building schools and making our school buildings more energy efficient.

Deputy Mary Alexandra White: I wish to share time with Deputies Collins, Nolan, Brady, O’Connor and Calleary.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Mary Alexandra White: The issues of economic competitiveness, which is raised day in and day out, and the reform of the energy market are at the heart of this Government’s vision for economic revival and renewed competitiveness. I support my colleague, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan’s proposed amendment and would like to address the issues concerning the debate about the energy sector and its implications for price. It is vital this country has a medium and long term approach to the energy sector. The Minister’s work in several areas demonstrates that we have a stable and focussed approach towards changing the sector to make it cleaner, greener and more competitive and secure. History tells us of the previous massive under-investment in energy infrastructure, which I believe in part explains Ireland’s above average energy prices. I understand they are approximately 8% higher than other countries. It is encouraging that significant investment by semi- State companies in their futures is now forthcoming. We also see a commitment to enhanced competition in the Irish energy market. The Mini- ster’s examples of new providers on the market are worth mentioning and include Endesa, Virian, Eirtricity and Mainstream Renewable Power. They are all hugely positive examples of competitors who are willing to invest in Ireland and show confidence in the regulatory framework. The recognition of the need to interconnect with other energy markets is vital The arrival in 2007 of the all-Ireland market, the expectation of a North-South interconnector by 2011, of an east-west interconnector by 2012 and a future regional electricity market encompassing these islands and the north west of Europe are important developments in strengthening our security of supply and competitiveness amongst suppliers. The Government’s commitment to combatting fuel poverty and energy efficiency are important in reducing the demand for energy in our country. The warmer homes schemes and

524 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) home energy savings schemes are vital for electricity customers. The Taoiseach’s announcement last night of an increase in funding in 2009 for energy efficient scheme is a testament to the Government’s commitment. I am sorry Deputy Tuffy has left because I understand the summer works scheme is back. The \426 million being spent by the Department of Social and Family Affairs on combatting fuel poverty and increased provision in last year’s budget are vital components in Ireland’s drive to reduce energy consumption. Perhaps the most important aspect of the medium and long term energy policy of the Mini- ster is to move to renewable energy. Make no mistake, the move to a green economy is happening. I was at a wind and solar voltaic site in Collon, near Co. Louth a few weeks ago which powered massive mobile voltaic interconnectors to create a surplus energy generator, replacing a 25,000 a year diesel generator. The move is happening and the supports and grants the Minister is providing to the industry must be consolidated. I urge him to create micro-generation as quickly as possible for the market for all energy generators and to bring the original pioneers of the green economy, in particular the onshore wind providers, and grower of the last decade, with him as the move to renewables goes into overdrive. We have seen great targets for offshore wind suppliers but we now need to bring the price up to encourage onshore wind development. The issue of price is the subject of tonight’s debate. The move by the regulator to extract a rebate of \300 million from the ESB was vital and welcome. I urge the regulator to be equally dynamic in his current review of options——

Deputy Simon Coveney: It is the people’s money.

Deputy Mary Alexandra White: ——for an early price reduction. I support the Minister’s amendment.

Deputy Niall Collins: I wish to state the anger I felt and was expressed to me and other public representatives that the ESB voted for a price increase for itself when, in the last two weeks, in my constituency and the neighbouring constituency of Limerick East experienced the loss of 1,900 jobs in Dell and 400 in Kostal. It is scandalous.

Deputy Simon Coveney: The Government can change that. It is the main shareholder in the company.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Allow the Deputy to speak.

Deputy Niall Collins: There is a bigger issue regarding the salaries of our entire semi-State sector but it is a matter for another day. I welcome the comments made by Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan on his expectation of a double digit price decrease in the cost of energy from the Commission for Energy Regulation. Various speakers have mentioned competitiveness which is the theme of the day in many discussions. If we do not get our energy prices on a downward spiral we will not be at the races when it comes to competitiveness. The issue I would like to address in this debate is wind generation of energy. We have do more. We have it within our remit here to help, where at all possible, wind generation companies to try and achieve their targets and goals in a more timely manner. It currently takes approximately eight years for these companies to achieve a grid connection but their planning

525 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Niall Collins.] permission only lasts for five years. I will provide an example in a moment from my own county of Limerick. A disparity between five and eight years leads to delays and significant increased costs for the promoters of wind energy companies and we must sort out this problem. We must look at changing the Planning and Development Act to allow for a greater period of time for planning permission for these sites from five years to perhaps ten or 15 years. We could also look at including them under a system whereby strategic sites can go straight to An Bord Pleana´la for planning permission, rather than having to go through local authorities. In my county, Eirtricity has four sites under its control. One is developed and three are in development. It had to go through a tortuous programme to achieve an extension of planning permission for the three remaining sites. The total investment in the four sites is \276 million. There has a been a rates windfall for the local authority of approximately \1 million and a farmland rental windfall for the owners of the site of approximately \1 million. These companies also promote a community fund whereby the communities in the areas where there are developments are allowed to apply for funding for various projects. There are very positive spin offs. We need to do more to help them and can do so here. The home energy saving scheme was mentioned. We need to do more to promote that and hopefully the opportunity will come quite soon. I understand in excess of \100 million will be made available over the next number of months through the programme for Government. Limerick was part of a pilot programme, along with Clare, North Tipperary and Dundalk and 457 household applied for inclusion in it, with approximately 258 taking it up. My office was inundated with people trying to get onto the scheme.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Deputy Collins has one minute.

Deputy Niall Collins: The window of opportunity for people to be included in the scheme was too short. Hopefully the next time it is offered to the public we will see a greater window of opportunity for people to apply for the scheme. Regarding schools, we have an opportunity, through our green agenda, to look at the recycling of rainwater. We had a debate in this House not so long ago on the application of local authority rates to schools and the problems it is creating for schools and boards of management. We need to introduce a scheme where we can offer grants to schools and boards of management to recycle rainwater to try and avoid the associated water costs which arise from local authorities.

Deputy Simon Coveney: That is a good suggestion.

Deputy M. J. Nolan: I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Private Members’ motion. It is extraordinary to think that a little over seven months ago we were speaking in the House and wondering what we were going to do as the price of oil reached $147 per barrel. It is now hovering at around $40 per barrel. The public is not seeing energy cost savings as a consequence of that fall in oil prices. Even though the ESB is doing a fine job, we must see more interaction between electricity prices for consumers and the cost of the oil and gas the ESB uses. Representatives of EirGrid recently appeared before the Joint Committee on Communi- cations, Energy and Natural Resources. They are professional and forward thinking in their work to ensure security of supply for electricity consumers. If we are to continue to attract foreign direct investment, such potential investors need to be assured that they are dealing with professionals when it comes to electricity supply. That is important in order to continue to

526 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) attract companies such as Intel, which are heavily dependent on a good supply of electricity from the ESB. If our economic recovery is to be addressed, we must have a competitive pricing structure for our energy costs. I am pleased to note the message from the ESB is that, as the Minister announced yesterday, there will be a significant decrease in electricity costs. The ESB is examining the future of power generation in what is now a one-island electricity market. The current negotiations with planners and interested groups concerning a new interconnector with Northern Ireland are important. EirGrid will shortly be awarding contracts for a new east-west interconnector for us to link into the UK supply grid. We are currently producing just about the amount of electricity needed to meet demand, but hopefully in future electricity will become an import-export business. In that way, when demand is excessive here, we will be able to import electricity from Northern Ireland or Britain and vice versa. Competition in the electricity market is important and I am pleased to note that new players are coming onto the scene here. Endesa has announced that is investing \800 million in order to enter the Irish market. In addition, Bord Ga´is, in conjunction with the ESB, is opening a new generating station in Cork. The increase in the contribution of renewables is critically important and to this end the ESB is examining the area of wind power. I would like to see that sector being expanded. The company has good targets for wind power by 2020 and I wish it success in achieving them.

Deputy A´ ine Brady: I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate on Ireland’s energy costs and the importance of improving our competitiveness versus that of other countries. In these challenging economic times, the focus of the Government must be on ensuring that we protect our existing jobs and attract as many new jobs as we can. In addition, we must protect the less well off as much as possible from the effects of this global recession. This debate gives the Government an opportunity to outline its policy platform to address the cost of energy for our people. Businesses and citizens need to be confident that we are dealing with this key challenge for the economy. Energy costs are a key ingredient of our competitiveness. Since last September, I have spent quite some time meeting with business interests in my constituency — from the multinationals in Leixlip to small and medium enterprises in the wider area. A common theme of concern to the business community is the high cost of energy here compared to other European countries. Our energy costs are estimated to be 8% higher than the EU average. However, we must never underestimate the country’s many positive attributes, such as a flexible educated workforce, a pro-enterprise approach and a low corporation tax policy. We must now focus on energy costs and this debate gives us a chance to take stock of the progress we are making in this respect. In this context, I welcome some recent initiatives which will assist in driving down energy costs. Last week, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, announced that the EU has decided to award \100 million to our electricity interconnector project. This will enhance the country’s competitiveness and give confidence to our business community that the Government is committed to reducing energy costs. The east-west interconnector is a vital piece of infrastructure for our country and will bring many benefits. It will improve energy security, promote greater competition in the electricity sector of the all-island single energy market and offer opportunities for the export of wind- generated electricity, thus providing a further boost to our growing renewable energy sector. The second initiative is the introduction of new suppliers to the energy market. Endesa, a large, international and experienced energy supplier, has decided to enter the Irish market. It will invest more than \800 million in the economy and will provide competition in the energy market. Endesa’s new Irish operation will have a 14% market share when fully operational

527 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy A´ ine Brady.] and will be in a position to expand, given that it has purchased generation-ready sites at Lanes- boro and Shannonbridge. The introduction of competition is the key to reducing energy costs. It is important to have a policy mix that generates an energy market which has the ability to attract competition into the energy sector and also sustain those who enter the market. The introduction of major new international competitors will give confidence to businesses that we now have a market structure where different energy companies will compete for business. This is a significant development and will bring prices down. Reliance on imported fossil fuels is another barrier to a competitive energy supply source. The percentage of imported fossil fuels, particularly gas, on which we rely for electricity generation is much higher than in other countries. This reliance left us exposed when oil prices rose significantly last year. A recent report from the energy regulator indicated that if 40% of our power was generated from renewables, it would have a further significant dampening effect on prices. The Government has demonstrated its commitment to this policy with significant investment in the renewable sector. At a time when public confidence in regulators is shaken, the energy regulator can use its good offices to ensure that there is transparency in the energy prices offered to consumers and businesses. Oil prices have been reduced significantly in recent months and while gas has not been reduced as much, a clear and quick response from the regulator to falling energy prices will help to restore confidence in regulation generally. In this context, I welcome the Minister’s initiative to have the regulator, in conjunction with the energy companies, examine ways to fast track some of these downward trends for the benefit of businesses and consumers. Encouraging a competitive, least-cost energy supply is a key policy objective for the Govern- ment. Rising energy costs are a major concern for all sectors of the economy and for consumers not only here, but in the EU generally. The Government has the necessary policies to bring about more competitive and secure energy supplies. I commend the Government amendment to the House.

Deputy Charlie O’Connor: I welcome the opportunity to make a brief contribution to this important debate. It is good to see a Minister of State present with an appropriate surname for this particular debate — the Minister of State, Deputy Sea´n Power. I commend Deputy Coveney for tabling the motion. It is interesting, however, that the Opposition is not quite united on all the issues concerned.

Deputy Denis Naughten: The Government is not quite united.

Deputy Simon Coveney: The Opposition is united, as the Deputy would know if he had listened to my contribution last night.

Deputy Charlie O’Connor: Are you going to protect me, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, or will I protect myself?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I think the Deputy is quite able to protect himself, but I will do my best.

Deputy Denis Naughten: Deputy O’Connor does not need much help.

Deputy Charlie O’Connor: I welcome the opportunity to be involved in this debate, because it gets me out of my office. I have been in the office all day and have been taking many calls on this issue.

528 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Denis Naughten: The Deputy has been using too much energy.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Allow the Deputy to continue without interruption.

Deputy Charlie O’Connor: I often say that I bring my life experiences to my politics. I have plenty of gloomy days in my life. I lost my job three different times. The Opposition will say that will happen again.

Deputy Denis Naughten: Pretty soon.

Deputy Charlie O’Connor: It has happened to me and I know what it is like. I will keep working as long as I am here, and it is important I do that. When one turns on the television, there is more gloomy news. As a distraction, I turned on Sky News, to ensure the rest of the world is falling apart also, and there was more gloom.

Deputy Simon Coveney: Reducing energy prices would relieve that.

Deputy Charlie O’Connor: Deputy Beverley Flynn made a very interesting point and I hope people will pick up what she said. In her excellent contribution, she made the point that a gloom and doom response is fair enough, but people looking at us hope that our leaders and every politician will, at least, show some confidence and a way forward. I do not agree with everything that has been said and done. I believe strongly that it is important we inspire confidence in the public. The public has responded in a very bleak manner today. I took calls today from all over my constituency. I was talking to people in South Dublin County Council, where I have a long record and am well regarded. They were not a bit happy. That is the kind of political day we have had. It is important to drive through the issues and continue to represent in a confident manner the way forward. My town of Tallaght has been affected just as much as other areas. I am on the Government benches and hold up my hands in that regard. There were some 6,516 people on the live register in Tallaght in December and I am sure, with all the bad news we got today, the situation is still as bad. It is important to put this into context, particularly with regard to the issue of energy prices. Last week, I heard Deputy Finian McGrath make the point that public servants and the public service were getting much criticism and were easy targets. To some extent, they fought back today and have been facilitated by the media in that regard. They have a point of view to express. My jury is a little out on this.

Deputy Simon Coveney: The Deputy should speak on the motion.

Deputy Charlie O’Connor: I am speaking about the motion. By the way, I am not as experienced as some of the Opposition. I base the way I contribute on what I hear over on that side from people talking about everything.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Both Deputies should address their remarks through the Chair.

Deputy Charlie O’Connor: I suspect that if I was out of order, the Chair would have picked up on that by now.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I am sure I would.

529 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Charlie O’Connor: My jury is out on the issue with regard to ESB employees. ESB employees have been on to me to make their case. I do not know whether they rang Fine Gael spokespersons, but they make a strong case for themselves. It is important we hear their case. As vice-chairman of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social and Family Affairs, which is chaired by Deputy Jackie Healy-Rae, I have chaired a number of sittings at which groups presented strong cases I would support with regard to social inclusion. I always say that when all boats are struggling, we must remember the little boats. People in disadvantaged communities, people who are unemployed, the vulnerable and the aged would say they have even greater difficulties with regard to energy costs than others. The Minister made the point about co-operation with the authorities in Northern Ireland. As a member of the British-Irish Assembly, I support that. It is important we work with partners right across the island. I hope we do that. I look forward to engaging my friends from Fine Gael on another occasion and thank the Chair for its courtesy.

Deputy Dara Calleary: I welcome the opportunity to speak about the Government’s energy policies and welcome the Minister’s intentions, stated last night, with regard to a reduction in electricity prices. The Joint Oireachtas Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment has spent the past two days having hearings into the retail market. One of the key issues arising as a differential in cost is the price of energy. One of the retail operators with the committee today, which operates in the South and in England, pointed to a 50% difference between its energy bills here and in England. All the retailers with operations on both sides of the Border pointed to a smaller, but still significant difference in energy prices. Therefore, the announcement made by the Minister last night is welcome. The key issue Ireland faces as an island is energy supply. We are an island at the edge of Europe, but we are an island at the end of a gas pipe that comes from a country that is, at the best of times, unstable, and, as we have seen in the past number of weeks, a country not afraid to use its supply as a political weapon. For that reason, we must address our supply issues. Deputy A´ ine Brady spoke earlier about the efforts being made by the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, in the area of renewables. There is much work to be done in that regard, but much as been achieved, not just by Government, but by many interest groups outside the House. I compliment Deputy Coveney who has been to the fore in educating many of us in the House on the issue. However, there is still not enough happening. We still have very restrictive planning laws with regard to renewable energy and infrastructure. It may be that the Government will have to take action to overcome local planning difficulties in this regard. The biggest issue for us is supply. In this regard, both I and Deputy O’Mahony are very familiar with the issues relating to the Corrib gas field. I have never made any secret of my support for this project. This island needs that supply now more than ever. I commend the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy E´ amon O´ Cuı´v, on the work they are doing with the north-west forum in trying to bring as many people on board with the project as they can. The loss to Ireland as an island as a result of delays in bringing the gas ashore is increasing daily. We have got lucky in that oil prices have collapsed again, but they are beginning to rise. Everybody who knows anything about energy or oil, suggests oil is more likely to end up at the price it was last summer than the current price. For that reason, we need certainty over our alternative gas supply here. I appeal to all sides on this issue to use the forum, its non-

530 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) political nature and the experience of Joe Brosnan as its chairman, to address their concerns and the issues. Everybody is agreed about bringing the gas ashore, but the difficulty concerns how it is brought ashore. We need to get it ashore as quickly as possible. One of the benefits of having gas on the west coast is the Gas West project. This has opened an alternative energy supply to businesses and domestic customers in the area. Many parts of the country have had a gas and electricity supply alongside each other for many years. It was only in the past few days that my home town was connected to gas. This happened because of the potential to get Corrib gas on shore. It does not make sense that the west takes gas that comes from a pipeline that begins in Russia, when we have enormous supplies of gas a couple of miles off our coast. Supply is related to prices. Difficulties with regard to supply drive prices. The difficulties with oil prices have been driving the cost of electricity and gas. However, we have in our power and within our grasp as a country the ability to manage the problem and ease the pressure. We should grasp the ball with both hands an run with it. I appeal to all sides to use the north-west forum to address the issues. We must get the gas ashore and open up whatever else is out there. There is a significant reserve of energy, be it oil or gas, off the west coast. We must get it ashore and use it for the benefit of the people.

Deputy Denis Naughten: I wish to share time with Deputies O’Mahony, D’Arcy, Perry, Clune and Burke.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Deputy Denis Naughten: I welcome the opportunity to speak on this debate. Irish households and businesses are being burdened with the highest energy prices in Europe. This is having a dramatic impact on the financial management and day-to-day lives of households and families throughout the country and on businesses and small businesses, particularly small businesses struggling to cope and manage the massive energy bills they receive. My colleague, Deputy Enright, has spoken on numerous occasions on the issue of fuel poverty. Many families fear the arrival of an ESB bill, wondering how they will manage to pay it and ensure the electricity is not turned off. Not only is this a fear for families but small businesses trying to keep their heads above water are also concerned. It is extremely frustrating that energy prices, and electricity prices in particular, are artificially high in this country. They were set artificially high by the regulator to encourage competition. This has been the situation for the past six or seven years. It has not brought competition into the marketplace and people are struggling with it. This country has a big problem in that the ESB has been far too efficient in producing electricity. As a result of this, the ESB is investing in Europe and further afield but is debarred from investing in this country. This artificially high price needs to be addressed especially with regard to the impact it is having on the economy and competitiveness. The red tape and bureaucracy involved in regulating the energy sector in this country, as is the case in many other sectors, is unnecessary and is putting pressure on families, individuals and small businesses. Sadly, when I raised this specific issue with the Taoiseach in the House yesterday, he stated that in a number of years time we hope to be able to cut out some of the red tape and bureaucracy. Families and small businesses do not have years. Jobs are haemorrhaging on a day to day basis. We have seen 36,500 jobs lost this year alone. In his contribution, Deputy Coveney spoke about the windfall tax which is unnecessary at this point in time. It generates an extra \300 million per year through charges to electricity customers which could provide an automatic 10% reduction in the cost of electricity if it were

531 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Denis Naughten.] handed back to the customer tomorrow morning. Why is this not being done? The energy companies received this windfall through no mechanism of their own. It was introduced by the Government to deal with the issue of carbon allowances. It should be handed back, particularly in the current economic climate. While the regulator is quick to increase prices and slow to reduce them, another issue on which the office might begin to focus is estimated bills. The ESB states it is its objective to read the meter for every second bill. However, this does not happen. In my case, the meter was not read for 14 months. However, when the bill was issued I was charged at the higher rate rather that the rate at which much of the electricity was accumulated. Tenants in rented accommodation face a problem where they transfer between meter readings and end up being charged for electricity used by a previous tenant. This is a major problem and the regulator must set standards on estimated bills and ensure that public information is made available to people so they are not being overcharged for electricity they never used.

Deputy John O’Mahony: I am glad to contribute to the debate on this motion and I commend Deputy Coveney on bringing it before the House and for continuing to highlight the burden of some of the highest energy prices in Europe being carried by the households and business sector of this country. I also congratulate Deputy Coveney for pressurising the Minister, Deputy Ryan, to come out, even at this late stage, to indicate a double digit reduction in electricity prices this year. The question which everybody is asking is why it has taken so long to recognise this. It should have happened months ago. I will consider the problem of high energy prices in Ireland through the eyes of the taxpayer. Over recent days, we listened to the debate on the economic trouble in which the country is and the global recession and we heard that global conditions caused the problems we have here. People wonder why there is a disconnect between the Government or the people running the country and the ordinary people. We need look no further than our energy prices to see the slowness to react to changes on the world market. As the price of oil and gas rocketed last summer, the energy regulator sanctioned increases of 20% in gas prices and 17.5% in electricity prices with the add-on that there would be similar increases in January.

Deputy Sea´n Power: No. That is not correct.

Deputy John O’Mahony: Everybody knows what happened subsequently. Oil and gas prices dropped dramatically from almost $150 per barrel to between $35 and $40 which it is at present. It was reasonable to assume that hard-pressed consumers, businesses and households would get some respite at a time when a bit of good news is badly needed. It was a chance to restore some sense of competitiveness into industries and businesses which were on their knees because of the Government’s handling of the economy for the past 11 years.

Deputy Sea´n Power: Give us the facts. Do not make it up.

Deputy John O’Mahony: Incredibly, we were told the ESB——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Allow the Deputy to make his contribution.

Deputy John O’Mahony: I stated I was——

Deputy Simon Coveney: Like what the Minister of State said about smart meters last night.

Deputy John O’Mahony: This is what is being said on the streets.

532 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Sea´n Power: It is not.

Deputy John O’Mahony: Incredibly, we were told that the ESB and Bord Gais had booked most of their fuel requirements at peak price for the coming six months and therefore were not in a position to pass on the reductions quickly. Why did this rule not apply when prices for the consumer rocketed within weeks of increases in world prices earlier in the summer? Last summer, people paid \1.40 per litre for petrol when the price of a barrel was \150. Today’s price is approximately \40 which means we should be paying \0.47 per litre if it were related to global prices as our economic problems have been related to global difficulties. I listened to the Ministers for Finance and Enterprise, Trade and Employment earlier today and I have listened to Government Deputies up and down the country blaming our present economic woes and difficulties on the global economy. How can they ask the people of Ireland to believe this when they do not ensure the benefits of reductions in global oil prices are not passed on to the man and woman in the street and to the business community? This is an opportunity to give some good news and help restore competitiveness which is an essential requirement if we are to get the economy moving. I have information on other figures but I do not have time to discuss them. With regard to energy prices, particularly the price of petrol and diesel at the pumps, last weekend in Mayo there was a variation of up to \0.13 per litre in the prices of petrol and diesel. I do not blame the petrol pump owners for the huge anomalies. Many small businesses and corner shops tell me they must pay more to their suppliers than it can be bought for at the Tescos of this country. Whatever needs to be done to get an even playing field needs to be done. Deputy Calleary mentioned the Corrib gas forum. I agree with him on this point. More than 1,000 people are employed in the Corrib Gas field at present. I could not imagine the wasteland this area would be if these jobs were not there. Many mistakes have been made and people’s views have been trampled on over the past number of years. This forum is an opportunity and I hope all opinions will be taken into account and that we find a way to bring the gas ashore for the benefit of the people of Ireland and the people of Erris and Mayo.

Deputy Michael D’Arcy: I speak tonight as a householder and a business user. As a commercial dairy farmer, I have seen the cost of energy rise by more than 100%. This is causing significant difficulties for businesses. Good business this year is not to make profit but to continue trading. I appreciate that energy generation in this country is expensive due to the fact that 90% is sourced from fossil fuels. The majority of this is in the form of gas. We have no nuclear generation and the renewable sector is still in its infancy. Competition in this area has failed. The ESB and Bord Gaís E´ ireann are totally dominant in almost every sector, including the domestic and business sectors. The Minister of State was not in office when a company called Vayü Limited, on the deregulation of the market, began to compete with Bord Gaís E´ ireann and took over a significant chunk of the market. I saw that if one gives a lean, hungry company the opportunity on the deregulation of the market, others will come in and compete. If they do so, they will make energy available at a cheaper cost. We have seen the difficulties that arose when trying to bring fuel ashore from the Corrib gas field. Two Deputies from Mayo have just spoken about them. The planning process and the necessary legal framework are so onerous that it takes years to get through them. The building of massive infrastructural projects is the easy part, which certainly should not be the case. Every proposed wind farm meets with considerable objections from locals who want clean energy but who do not want it to be produced in their area. It can take up to ten years before

533 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Michael D’Arcy.] construction starts on a wind farm. How can we be encouraging these developments but not changing legislation to facilitate good, carbon neutral projects? The imposition of carbon taxes on consumers in these difficult financial times is criminal. In the four-year period ending in 2012, the amount expected to be charged is approximately \1.6 billion. These charges suggest consumers are paying too much. With the 7% tax on public sector pensions introduced yesterday, the reduction of up to 10% in public sector pay and the 1% tax on earnings, nobody could possibly justify the charges imposed by companies such as Bord Gaís E´ ireann and the ESB. They are outrageous at this time. The old way of doing business in the State used to be to add a margin to the cost of providing a service but this is certainly not the case in respect of energy costs in Ireland. The regulator has not covered himself in glory. I stated at a recent meeting of the Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources that, all too often, the ESB and Bord Gaís E´ ireann seek an increase of a certain percentage. While they may not be allowed to charge the full percentage, they charge most of it. The perception is that the ESB and Bord Gaís E´ ireann are setting the prices rather than the regulator. Fossil fuel prices have dropped significantly in the past seven months. Prices increase at a multiple of the speed at which they decrease. The country should be connected to the international grid as soon as possible. We must facilitate private enterprises’ drive to construct interconnectors. One interconnector is due to be linked to my county, County Wexford, which will be welcome. These interconnectors will allow for the correct development of the national grid. Without them, we will not be able to capitalise on providing energy to the areas in which it will be needed most whenever the upturn in our economy arrives, as it will at some stage. If the next Celtic tiger era is to benefit, the next period of construction in the State will not involve the construction of houses or factories but the construction of infrastructure. I hope this will be sooner rather than later.

Deputy John Perry: I congratulate the Fine Gael energy spokesperson, Deputy Coveney, on tabling this important motion. It focuses on the cost of energy to the consumer, especially the cost of electricity. The motion acknowledges that Irish households and businesses are burdened with some of the highest gas and electricity prices in the European Union and that our national economic competitiveness is suffering as a result of high electricity costs. These complaints are not new. Any historical review will show that complaints about the high cost of electricity are a long-standing problem dating back decades. The last few reports from the National Competitiveness Council, particularly the 2008 report, comprise a damning account of the Government’s failure to address spiralling business costs and the decline in economic competitiveness. This shows that the Government has made little progress in addressing the crisis arising from rising electricity costs and that Irish industrial electricity costs are the second highest in the Union. The past decade has seen the introduction of major changes in the electricity sector, including a serial restructuring of the ESB and the establishment of the Commission for Energy Regu- lation. These changes were intended to bring more transparency to electricity pricing, more competition in electricity generation and lower electricity costs for consumers. Regrettably, none of these seems to have occurred in practice. The first major impact of the opening up of the market was that electricity prices increased, resulting in the creation of a profit margin for new generation companies. That particular round

534 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) of price increases cannot be blamed on ESB management as it was the direct responsibility of the Government. The hope that full transparency regarding electricity pricing would follow the establishment of the Commission for Energy Regulation was dashed some years ago during the fiasco in which the regulator granted the ESB a major price increase only to be followed a few months later by a reduction in that increase. There are credible anecdotal accounts that this price reduction followed, in large part, the discovery of a significant error in the data underlying the case for the price increase. This does not inspire confidence in the cost control activities of the ESB’s executive management and the regulator. A key characteristic of the electricity sector is the perception that electricity costs are largely outside Government and executive management control. The costs of the primary energy inputs of fuel oil, coal and natural gas are determined by world markets. Electricity generation and supply comprise a capital-intensive business and there is little flexibility in the scale of the annual financial charges passed on to the electricity customer. These two factors lead to the perception that labour, operation and maintenance costs comprise a small proportion of total electricity costs and do not matter very much overall. This is more or less what the secretary general of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions said on the RTE news within the past week. In actual fact, domestic factors that are under the direct control of ESB executive management account for a significant proportion of the cost of electricity, and the bulk of these costs are labour costs. In absolute terms, ESB payroll costs amounted to more than \500 million last year. The scale of labour costs constitutes a powerful reason to ensure cost factors within our control are minimised and the sector operates as cost efficiently as possible. This is not the case at present. Making the electricity sector cost effective for the Irish consumer can be characterised as a long-running power struggle between the Government, ESB management and ESB trade unions. The minimisation of the costs within their direct control is the fundamental challenge for the ESB’s executive management. The way the price of electricity has undergone a sustained escalation over the years would seem to show that the Government and, therefore, the Irish electricity consumer have been on the losing side of that power struggle. A consultant study from 2004 showed that domestic controllable costs are estimated to account for 30% of the difference between Irish and average EU electricity prices. As an absolute minimum, the regulator must focus on lowering this differential in controllable costs to bring us into line with our competitors. The problem really concerns controllable costs but the Government has abandoned its responsibility in this area. We now need a fundamental review of the regulatory system, including by way of asking ourselves whether the break-up of the ESB and the introduction of the regulator, in its present form, were actually mistakes. The small and relatively self-contained electricity system in Ireland does not really lend itself to the dogma of competition as applied in large electricity markets. Our circumstances are unique and we should recognise this in how we approach Government control of the sector. High costs comprise one of the key causes of our job losses.

Deputy Deirdre Clune: I am delighted to speak to this motion, which is very important at a time when many are experiencing difficulty operating businesses. Consumers are finding it extremely difficult to make ends meet. I am especially conscious of the high rate of unemployment, which is continuing to rise. This is an important motion. I am pleased the Minister, albeit belatedly, has instructed the regulator to examine energy prices to see what can be done to reduce prices. Deputy Coveney has been calling for changes in this area for a long time. The motion we have before the House

535 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Deirdre Clune.] is broad but it makes specific points in different areas about how practical and realistic measures can be taken to reduce the cost of energy. Energy costs are an important factor for the economy because our competitiveness has dropped from fourth place to 20th place in the global competitiveness league. The cost of energy is a major element of the cost of doing business in this country. I attended a meeting of the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment which was examining the cost of retail goods to consumers in this jurisdiction. Many media reports focused on the issue recently. It was interesting to hear a representative from Aldi indicate that the energy cost of operating a facility in Ireland is 100% higher than a similar 8 o’clock facility in the UK. That flies in the face of a report produced by Forfa´sin December 2008, which estimated the cost of doing business in this country as approximately 20% dearer. However, the man from Aldi can stand over his figures. That is an alarming statistic which underlines the difficulty so many people have doing business in this country where energy costs are one of the major factors. The cost of energy to consumers is a major factor also. Many speakers expressed their bewil- derment at the increase in energy prices in August 2008, which was justified at the time by the fact that the price of oil was high, yet when the price of oil dropped to approximately $40 a barrel it was not reflected in a decrease in energy prices. That drives people insane. They cannot understand it and are most frustrated by it. A widow contacted me last week whose husband died relatively recently. She set about putting her own name on the ESB bill, which had been in her husband’s name. Although she was in the same house and it was the same service she was asked for a payment of \300. We appealed the imposition of that charge and the appeal was granted on compassionate grounds. However, that fee of \300 is still in place. One only has to consider the amount of rented accommodation that changes hands around the country. That fee is outrageous and it does not make any sense. There is no cost involved other than the time it takes to change the name on the billing address. The same can be said about the increase in wages to ESB workers. In this day and age when people are losing their jobs it is hard to justify an increase in wages in the ESB. In the past 24 hours we have seen a levy on pension payments imposed on public sector employees. I accept the payment in ESB was agreed but there was no justification for it. People cannot understand it. I heard Padraig McManus justify it on the basis that labour is a small factor in overall costs. Those figures have been disputed by Deputy Perry who spoke previously in the debate. The cost may be small but it is significant and it sends out a completely wrong message. The Minister of State, Deputy Sea´n Power, is willing to give up his job. That would have been a small contribution but it would be an important message to send out, that we are serious about excesses and keeping costs down, especially costs to consumers and business. I hope the ESB will reverse that decision.

Deputy Ulick Burke: I thank my colleagues for sharing time. I commend Deputy Coveney for bringing this timely motion before the House. Day after day, throughout the country we hear reports of job losses. One of the main reasons given for job losses is lack of competitiveness. Within the competitiveness area the criterion that ranks highest of all is the cost of energy. That was brought home clearly to me last week when a company in Loughrea, which was established 20 years ago, announced it was closing down. Word came from the US that because

536 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed) it was no longer competitive to continue in Loughrea the company would close on a staggered basis commencing in March and finishing in June. An important point is that we have long heard we are losing our competitiveness as a manufacturing base but this case was different in that we are losing a service industry that involved high-quality jobs. It is sad to note that only today the Minister for Finance made a statement in the House dealing with the other motion before the House. He outlined that the maintenance of jobs is paramount and restoring competitiveness is central to that goal, yet for the past ten years this Fianna Fa´il-led Government has paid lip-service to the production of energy in this country, especially renewable energy. A major wind farm, which was of great importance to the west of Ireland in particular, was delayed for four years because two Government agencies stifled the planning process. In addition, the banks that were going to finance the project for private developers pulled out. That is what is happening now, the banks are not providing the resources and backup for private developers to develop alternative sources of energy. Government has sat idly by for so long without doing anything to address the issue. Gama erected a gas power station at the old disused mine at Tynagh in Loughrea two years ago. It is a state-of-the-art electricity producing station. An unusual situation developed in terms of cost effectiveness that was overseen by the Commission for Energy Regulation. The producers of electricity got a contract whereby they were paid for the total potential capacity output of that station when the output was never more than 50% or 60%. In terms of competitiveness, how is it that the regulator has not sorted out that issue? Why has there been such a rip-off in that particular instance? There is a need for a review but when that takes place surely the person charged with the responsibility must have adequate teeth and power to provide proper regulation. If we are to maintain jobs it is important that somebody must intervene. If energy prices increased so rapidly six months ago, why has there not been a corresponding reduction in them recently given the monthly decrease in the price of oil and other carbon fuels? It is important that the Govern- ment would take action at this stage because of the totally inadequate efforts or powers of the Commission for Energy Regulation. It has failed. It is a flop and it is time it was changed.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Trevor Sargent): De bharr gur labhair an tAire O´ Riain agus an tAire Staít, Seań de Paor areír, nı´ feídir leo an freagra a thabhairt don dıóspo´ ireacht anocht agus is ono´ ir mho´ ir domsa mar sin freagair ar son an tAire agus an tAire Staít a thabhairt. I again thank Fine Gael for tabling the motion. We have had a useful and productive debate and I hope it has led to a better understanding of the mechanisms that determine how electricity prices are set and the various factors driving them. I am also gratified that the motion has seen Fine Gael come around to the Government’s way of thinking on the transfer of transmission system assets to the ESB——

Deputy Simon Coveney: To EirGrid.

Deputy Trevor Sargent: ——to EirGrid, and I hope there are further potential fields of agreement between the Government and the Opposition in the energy sphere. I would like to address a number of the claims made by Opposition Members in their contributions. Specifically, I would like to respond to the accusation that our electricity prices are maintained at an artificially high level. I assure the House that nothing could be further from the truth. Our electricity tariffs are set at a level that is fully reflective of the costs borne by generators in producing the electricity. While it may be true that the State energy companies

537 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Trevor Sargent.] could produce electricity for lower than the current public electricity supply tariff price, at least for a while, they could only engage in this practice by cross-subsidising their electricity generation from other areas of the company. If we allowed them to engage in this behaviour, it could cause incalculable damage to our electricity market. Vital infrastructural development in distribution and transmission networks could suffer and it would impact upon the ability of these companies to deliver on the commitments contained in their corporate strategies. As stressed yesterday, any such move would also lead to a loss of investor confidence in the transparency of the regulation of the market and even potentially drive independent power producers out the market. I hope the Opposition can agree this would be a retrograde step. Instead, we can lower the cost of electricity to consumers in a non-distortionary fashion, through an expedited review of tariffs. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources is tasking the energy regulator to undertake an immediate review of options to bring forward a reduction in electricity prices to achieve this. This review will be conducted within the existing regulatory framework and if current trends in energy prices, particularly gas continue, I expect a double digit cut in electricity and gas prices to become a reality later this year. With regard to the concerns that a number of Deputies expressed on oil prices at the pump, I reiterate that the Government does not control prices at the petrol pump. The National Consumer Agency recently undertook an investigation into diesel and petrol price movements in Ireland. This report concluded that there is little evidence to suggest unwarranted delays in the passing on of wholesale price changes to the consumer at the pump. The Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources is however, reviewing the methodology for collecting oil price statistics in Ireland with a view to ensuring this information is fully reflective of current market conditions, taking into account significant changes in the structure of the oil market in recent years. The only viable solution to the energy challenges we face is to make our energy supplies more sustainable in the longer term. This will reduce our dependence on imported fossil fuels, which account for a large percentage of the price we pay for electricity and which will, in turn, drive competitiveness in the electricity sector. The importance of renewables in this equation cannot be understated. The Minister outlined to the House last night the analysis recently published by the CER, which delivers the hearten- ing promise that the achievement of Ireland’s renewable targets by 2020 will reduce our energy costs by 15%, compared to what they would have been without our development of renewable energy. The ESRI is researching the economic costs and benefits of renewables, which will provide further documentary evidence of the benefits of renewables. The upgrades required for our electricity networks are linked to this renewable development. These investments cannot be postponed and, as my colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Sea´n Power, put it so eloquently, we cannot put off until tomorrow the bills that we should pay today. The billions of euro due to be invested in modernising and upgrading these networks will serve as a potent fiscal stimulus for the economy. Throughout this process, we will not forget the needs of the most vulnerable on our society. We have announced expanded services such as the warmer homes scheme and the home insulation grant programme. These services, coupled with the increases in social welfare fuel allowance payments, will ensure the less well off are protected from high energy costs. The Govern- ment has implemented measures that will deliver lower electricity costs to consumers in a transparent and credible manner, which will maintain confidence in our electricity sector and regulatory regime.

Deputy James Reilly: I wish to share time with Deputies Ring and Coveney.

538 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

The Minister of State said the transmission system assets would be transferred to the ESB but I hope he means EirGrid.

Deputy Trevor Sargent: The Deputy is correct.

Deputy James Reilly: He also referred to meeting Ireland’s renewable targets by 2020 but that is a joke. People are hanging on by their fingernails in business and they cannot wait until 2020 for a 15% reduction in energy costs. I commend Deputy Coveney’s timely motion on energy prices. Domestic households and businesses are burdened with some of the highest prices in the EU for electricity and gas. Energy costs are a key component of economic competitiveness and Ireland’s ability to develop and attract new business is hampered by high energy costs. Energy is a key factor in the horticulture industry in north County Dublin where our indigenous tomato growing industry has been decimated by high energy costs. However, I compliment Country Crest Foods, a progressive food company based near Lusk in north County Dublin, which is installing wind turbines at its food processing facility. Ireland needs to encourage and foster such a progressive independent food company ethos into the future. This company is always looking forward for new markets and opportunities, while embracing up to date cost saving measures like wind energy. However, the company’s zeal is unmatched by this lethargic Government and its regulators who are not reacting quickly enough to the downward changes in oil prices. The motion is important because it seeks to achieve immediate reductions for business and householders of 20% from the ESB but also because it is imperative that the Minister transfers the transmission assets to EirGrid from the ESB as soon as possible. This is critical to allow independent energy producers access to the grid. The current ridiculous position is akin to us owning through EirGrid the main sewer pipes while the ESB continues to own the ransom strip between the sewer pipe and the house, which is a farce. This is totally unsustainable and untenable. We need to think like our European neighbours where the production of even small amounts of electricity are encouraged and meters installed in order that they can feed back into the grid. This would encourage people to invest in photovoltaic systems and small wind turbines in order that we could have a network throughout the country boosting our energy supplies.

Deputy Trevor Sargent: We are doing that.

Deputy Simon Coveney: Not quickly enough.

Deputy James Reilly: It would also encourage small companies to become involved in green energy production, including tidal and wave energy. The possibility of Ireland being a net exporter of energy, as these technologies improve, cannot be ruled out. The Minister of State said the Government is encouraging this but it is not doing so quickly enough. People are being penalised and they cannot access the grid. In Germany those who net feed into the grid get paid almost three times the amount they are charged in recognition of their carbon free energy source.

Deputy Trevor Sargent: The Green Party has been in power longer there.

Deputy Simon Coveney: The Government should get on with it.

Deputy Trevor Sargent: The Opposition is talking about it but we are doing it.

539 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy James Reilly: The Minister of State is the Green Party representative for my constituency. How he can preside over a reduction in the number of buses and in public transport generally in the constituency when it is totally contrary to his party’s policy is beyond me. Meanwhile, we pay millions of euro to maintain bus lanes with no buses to run on them.

Deputy Trevor Sargent: I hope the Deputy uses the bus. Why does he not become a customer of Dublin Bus?

Deputy James Reilly: This position is all the more galling when the Germans are producing carbon free energy. This is a gross abuse of monopoly and it must stop. When oil prices increase, energy companies are very efficient and responsive in putting prices up but it is a different story when prices are coming down. The consumer and business community are slow to receive the benefit of falling oil prices. This is unacceptable where price and value for money are the key to economic survival. Our businesses and communities must be provided with competitively priced energy. The price of oil has collapsed by more than 80% to approximately $40 a barrel, yet we are waiting for realistic adjustments. To add insult to injury, staff salaries in the ESB increased by 3.5% last week. This is not the real world. The days of State monopolies and local authorities automatically foisting additional charges onto the public and business must end. We are paying a premium of approximately 10% of every electricity bill because the regulator insists on the cost of carbon emissions being levied even though electricity companies do not need to pay for such costs. This is crazy stuff and is theory gone mad. The opportunities provided for a green energy industry in a country like Ireland, surrounded as it is by wind and sea with long hours of sunlight, are enormous and hold forth the prospect in the future of our economy being independent of the vagaries of the global fossil fuel market. This very real possibility will not happen unless the Government wakes up to it and, instead of paying lip service to the concept, brings about real change to the current obsolete arrangements. These proposals are the first step in that regard. I commend the motion.

Deputy Michael Ring: I compliment Deputy Coveney on tabling the motion. I was one of the few people who wrote to the regulator and asked him not to proceed with the second increase. I asked him to wait and have patience. I pointed out that it was not fair to the country. It was not fair to business or the poor. I sent him a second letter stating that I thought he did not do his job correctly. Then, when oil prices reduced, he was not permitted under the legislation to reverse the price increase. That is wrong and crazy. It shows how the country is and it is no wonder we are in the climate we are in at present. The taxpayers helped to set up the ESB. Today, it puts two fingers up to the Government and the country. It is doing that every day to young couples and local authorities. Taxpayers’ money went into electricity poles. However, the ESB is asking for colossal amounts of money to get them removed from roads where they may be causing a safety hazard or from other areas where young couples are seeking to build homes. The Minister should talk to the ESB. There is a public obligation and a public service element. The ESB should remove these poles, particularly if they are causing a safety hazard, without charging \20,000 or \30,000. Local authorities as one State agency should not need to pay a semi-State agency for it. I congratulate Deputy Coveney on the motion. I have much more to say on it. It is not right that oil prices have reduced and the ESB got a price increase which it cannot reverse. To me, the regulator should not be in place. In fact, we do not need regulators. It should be the Minister who has responsibility for increasing ESB charges instead of handing over this power to someone with no responsibility to the Da´il.

540 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Deputy Simon Coveney: I thank my colleagues from all sides of the House who contributed to the debate. I thank the Labour Party and Sinn Fe´in in particular for agreeing to support the motion, despite tabling a specific amendment owing to a policy difference on the transfer of assets. However, they have given full support to the motion’s focus on energy prices and the need to change our regulatory system. This debate has focused attention on the fact that businesses and households simply pay too much for energy. It has resulted in the Minister announcing an energy price review, which I welcome. Unfortunately, like so many announcements the Minister makes, we have not received a timescale so we do not know when it will happen. We do not want or need a review that goes on for months and results in a double-digit price reduction sometime at the end of the year. We will get that without any extraordinary price review. That will happen in the course of time anyway. We are asking for an immediate price review as an emergency response. Part of the Government’s national recovery plan for the economy should be to try to improve competitiveness and try to give people hope that not everything that comes from this House is bad news for them. This should be a good news story this week. We should be announcing double-digit price reductions in electricity and certainly high single-digit price reductions in gas as a result of an urgent price review. Those benefits should be happening next month or the following month and not in six or eight months’ time. That is what I mean when I talk about the need for this House to respond urgently to issues outside of budgetary issues, which the Government is attempting to resolve this week by inflicting pain across society. This is a good news story on which the Government could have come with us and supported us. It could have given a clear positive message to people that we will alleviate the pain of households by reducing the cost of electricity and improve the conditions for cost competitiveness for businesses, thereby alleviating their pain and the pressures they are experiencing to some small extent. For months, business leaders and representatives have talked about the pressures they are experiencing that relate directly to the cost of energy. A Government spokesperson put his finger on it today when he spoke about a large business that is based in the UK and Ireland. It pays 50% more for electricity in Ireland than it pays in the UK. What kind of incentive is that to attract businesses into the country at a time when we need them more than ever? Last night, the Minister correctly spoke about the three pillars of energy policy: competition, security and clean power generation. This party wholeheartedly supports what the Minister is trying to do in terms of trying to transform energy generation here to increase the use of sustainable renewable sources of power through wind and wave technologies. Many positives can come from that through generating new industries and new green jobs for highly skilled and some not so skilled people in constructing wind farms onshore and offshore, and in constructing and developing apparatus that can capture the power of waves and deliver that power onto the grid in a competitive pricing arrangement. We want to see that happen. However, the Minister is wrong in claiming that competition in the energy market in Ireland is working. It is not working. We have paid for and continue to pay for the facilitation of competition in the Irish energy market to attract new entrants to compete in the market. However, we are not getting the price benefits of that competition. Competition is no good if it does not deliver benefits for domestic and business consumers. That is where we are at the moment. We are continuing to pay to facilitate competition and a weakening of the ESB in the Irish electricity market, but we are not getting price benefits for households or businesses. That is damaging Ireland at a time when we cannot afford to suffer that damage. That is why this motion is so important, particularly this week.

541 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Simon Coveney.]

I wish to make some suggestions to the Minister and the experts in his Department for the price review in which I hope his Department will be deeply involved rather than just leaving it to the regulator. The Minister should consider the six proposals we have made in a non-party political motion — Fianna Fa´il and the Green Party are not even mentioned in it. These are proactive positive suggestions as to how we can re-regulate our energy market to reduce costs and prices. One of the areas in which I did not address a problem last night is in the industrial electricity market. In that area, the focus needs to be on reducing the cost of transmission and distribution of energy in Ireland. This is the non-competitive energy sector in Ireland. Last night, the Minister, Deputy Ryan, expressed concern at possible distortions of market conditions. The competitive market will not be distorted by reducing transmission and distribution costs. There is plenty of scope for cost reduction in that area. There is an underlying concern that the Minister believes that green thinking means that having high energy prices is somehow a good thing and that by keeping energy prices high, we will force people to reduce their usage and conserve energy in a more responsible way. It is possible to reduce prices and also do the other two things. They are not separate, mutually exclusive issues. Ireland cannot afford to have the luxury of keeping energy prices high in an effort to change consumer behaviour. We must change the way we regulate energy in Ireland to prioritise for the next two years the provision of cheap electricity to consumers, to households and to business in order to try to get this country back on its feet. At the same time, we must move the green energy market agenda forward and it is possible to do both at the same time.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: As it is now 8.30 p.m. I must put the question on the amendment in the name of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Amendment put.

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 80; Nı´l, 68.

Ta´

Ahern, Dermot. Dempsey, Noel. Ahern, Michael. Dooley, Timmy. Ahern, Noel. Fahey, Frank. Andrews, Barry. Finneran, Michael. Andrews, Chris. Fitzpatrick, Michael. Ardagh, Seań. Fleming, Seań. Aylward, Bobby. Flynn, Beverley. Behan, Joe. Gallagher, Pat The Cope. Blaney, Niall. Gogarty, Paul. Brady, A´ ine. Gormley, John. Brady, Cyprian. Grealish, Noel. Brady, Johnny. Haughey, Seań. Browne, John. Healy-Rae, Jackie. Byrne, Thomas. Hoctor, Maíre. Calleary, Dara. Kelleher, Billy. Carey, Pat. Kelly, Peter. Collins, Niall. Kenneally, Brendan. Conlon, Margaret. Kennedy, Michael. Connick, Seań. Killeen, Tony. Coughlan, Mary. Kirk, Seamus. Cregan, John. Kitt, Michael P. Cuffe, Ciarań. Kitt, Tom. Cullen, Martin. Lenihan, Brian. Curran, John. Lenihan, Conor. 542 Energy Prices: 4 February 2009. Motion (Resumed)

Ta´—continued

Lowry, Michael. O’Flynn, Noel. McDaid, James. O’Hanlon, Rory. McEllistrim, Thomas. O’Keeffe, Edward. McGrath, Finian. O’Rourke, Mary. McGrath, Mattie. O’Sullivan, Christy. Power, Peter. McGrath, Michael. Power, Sea´n. McGuinness, John. Roche, Dick. Mansergh, Martin. Ryan, Eamon. Moynihan, Michael. Sargent, Trevor. Mulcahy, Michael. Scanlon, Eamon. Nolan, M.J. Smith, Brendan. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Treacy, Noel. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Wallace, Mary. O’Brien, Darragh. White, Mary Alexandra. O’Connor, Charlie. Woods, Michael. O’Dea, Willie.

Nı´l

Allen, Bernard. Lynch, Ciarań. Bannon, James. Lynch, Kathleen. Barrett, Seań. McCormack, Pa´draic. Breen, Pat. McEntee, Shane. Broughan, Thomas P. McGinley, Dinny. Bruton, Richard. McHugh, Joe. Burke, Ulick. McManus, Liz. Burton, Joan. Mitchell, Olivia. Byrne, Catherine. Naughten, Denis. O´ Caolaín, Caoimhghıń. Carey, Joe. ´ Clune, Deirdre. O Snodaigh, Aengus. Connaughton, Paul. O’Donnell, Kieran. O’Dowd, Fergus. Coonan, Noel J. O’Keeffe, Jim. Coveney, Simon. O’Mahony, John. Crawford, Seymour. O’Shea, Brian. Creed, Michael. O’Sullivan, Jan. Creighton, Lucinda. Penrose, Willie. D’Arcy, Michael. Perry, John. Deasy, John. Quinn, Ruairı´. Deenihan, Jimmy. Rabbitte, Pat. Durkan, Bernard J. Reilly, James. English, Damien. Ring, Michael. Enright, Olwyn. Shatter, Alan. Feighan, Frank. Sheahan, Tom. Ferris, Martin. Sheehan, P.J. Flanagan, Charles. Sherlock, Seań. Flanagan, Terence. Shortall, Ro´ isıń. Gilmore, Eamon. Stagg, Emmet. Hayes, Brian. Timmins, Billy. Hayes, Tom. Tuffy, Joanna. Higgins, Michael D. Upton, Mary. Howlin, Brendan. Varadkar, Leo. Kehoe, Paul. Wall, Jack. Kenny, Enda.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Pat Carey and John Cregan; Nı´l, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.

Amendment declared carried.

Motion, as amended, put and declared carried.

543 Community 4 February 2009. Care

Adjournment Debate.

————

Community Care. Deputy Tom Sheahan: I welcome the opportunity to raise the issue of the closure of the Rowan male ward in St. Columbanus Home, Killarney. A total of 21 beds have been closed in the community hospital and I cannot understand why this is happening. On a weekly basis I am in contact with St. Columbanus Home trying to secure beds for elderly people in need of long-term care. It has been the case for a while that one cannot get somebody admitted to the Rowan ward, or to any ward, in St. Columbanus Home. That is a euthanasia by the back door whereby the Government is closing those wards. The fair deal scheme is being introduced under which the Government will be able to take 5% of a patient’s estate over a three year period to use towards their care. With the closure of the Rowan ward, 21 beds are being closed and there have not been any admissions to that ward or to St. Columbanus Home for some time. St. Columbanus Home has 150 beds but with this ward closure that number is reduced to 129. The concern among staff and patients, particularly those who have been there for six, seven and eight years, is that they will be moved. They have not been informed to where they will be moved. There have not been any further admissions to St. Columbanus Home but the patients who have made it their home have not been informed to where they will be moved. I cannot understand why beds are being closed in a community hospital. The implication for my area is that people will not be able to find long-term care in a community facility. Also, what will be the implications of that on staffing numbers?

Deputy Sea´n Sherlock: I wish to record my utter disgust, as well as that of the staff and patients of the Heatherside Hospital in north Cork, at the HSE’s unilateral decision to close the facility which has housed 42 patients for many years. The decision is illogical and without any common sense basis. It was taken without any consultation with the stakeholders, the nursing staff or the patients. This is a facility that has looked after patients with mental health issues for several years. What is happening in society is disgusting. These 42 patients will be moved into a facility that was already closed down, unfit for human habitation and with Dicken- sian conditions. I do not know what the Government or the HSE is at, particularly when they give us much rhetoric on how well they look after mentally ill patients. I am calling on them to put a stay of execution on this decision until such time as there is consultation with the patients’ representatives, the families and the community to ensure everyone’s rights and entitlements are vindi- cated. If we have any sense of decency, this issue will be re-examined. I call on the Minister for Health and Children to intervene directly with the HSE to ensure the rights and entitlements of the affected patients are protected and common decency prevails.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Deputy Barry Andrews): Iam taking these Adjournment matters on behalf of the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney. I thank both Deputies Sherlock and Sheehan for raising these issues which provides me with an opportunity to update the House on these recent decisions and outline the background and the action taken by the Health Service Executive. I also want to reassure the older people concerned, and their families, about the future of their care. The Government’s policy for older people is to support people to live in dignity and independence in their own homes and communities for as long as possible. Where this is not feasible,

544 Community 4 February 2009. Care the health service supports access to quality long-term residential care where appropriate. Health services in all regions continue to be developed and improved and quality and patient safety are ensured. The Health Service Executive has operational responsibility for the delivery of health and social services, including those at facilities such as Heatherside, north Cork, and St. Columbanus Home, Killarney. The executive is working on an action plan to prioritise a phased programme of refurbishment and replacement of existing public homes, where necessary, to meet the proposed new national standards for residential care facilities for older people. Ongoing reviews are essential to ensuring resources are properly channelled and the changing needs of older people are suitably addressed. The executive continues to address infrastructural deficits to meet standards, together with health and safety and fire requirements. Heatherside is a facility for older adults with enduring mental health issues located remotely in Doneraile, north Cork, but serving the needs of the South Lee population. Staffed by general trained nurses with support from the South Lee mental health team, the current facility falls short of the requirements to meet residential care standards and would require significant and ongoing capital investment to meet fire and safety standards. Heatherside is no longer able to provide appropriate services due to the increasing levels of dependency of its residents. The executive proposes to relocate this service to more appropriate modern accommodation in St. Stephen’s Hospital Campus, Sarsfield Court, Cork. The relocation will provide a higher quality of service to the residents. The majority of these, with a small number of exceptions, originated from the South Lee catchment area. Only two of the existing 42 residents are from the north Cork area, with the remaining 40 from South Lee. The number of residents in Heatherside has decreased from 130 in 1992, to 80 in 2000 and 42 in 2009. There have been no recent admissions and a significant number of families have refused the option of admission to Heatherside on the basis of its location in north Cork. St. Stephen’s is closer and much more accessible to residents, their families, relatives and friends. In addition, access to and support from specialist services in South Lee for residents and staff will be much improved.

Deputy Sea´n Sherlock: That is factually incorrect.

Deputy Barry Andrews: St. Columbanus Home, Killarney, provides 150 continuing care beds in Killarney. The building dates back to the 1850s. The Rowan ward is an 18-bed male unit and is situated on the ground floor of the home. The executive has advised that the environment, design and layout of the unit are unsuited to meet the proposed standards published by the Health Information and Quality Authority last year.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: Despite a large investment in it.

Deputy Barry Andrews: The executive has decided to reduce the bed complement in the home to 132 beds by closing the unit. This will take place over an appropriate period. There are three additional beds located on the first floor which are occupied by ambulant patients. These will also need to be reconfigured in the overall provision of beds in the unit. The priority capital developments for long-stay care approved for County Kerry are the new community hospital in Dingle and the new unit at Killerisk, Tralee. In Dingle, construction has been completed at the community hospital and the unit is being commissioned. It replaces the existing 43-bed unit and will also provide an additional 25 beds for the catchment area. A new 50-bed community nursing unit at Killerisk, Tralee, has also been provided which is also being commissioned. This will cater for the Tralee catchment area. The overall capital costs of these

545 Services for People 4 February 2009. with Disabilities

[Deputy Barry Andrews.] developments is in excess of \25 million, with revenue costs of \7.6 million, representing a major commitment to support the development of services for older people in the Kerry area. The provision of additional beds in both Tralee and Dingle during 2009 provides the executive with an opportunity to reconfigure residential services for older people in Kerry. With the provision of these additional beds, there will be an opportunity to provide residents accommodated in St. Columbanus Home with alternative accommodation closer to their own community if they so wish.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: New beds in Dingle and Tralee will not suit the needs of the people of east Kerry.

Deputy Barry Andrews: There will also be a lesser requirement for the concentration of long-stay beds in the Killarney area as the future needs of north and west Kerry residents will be met in the new units. The reduction in bed numbers in St. Columbanus will be effected as beds become vacant during 2009. Movement in the home will be minimised and the wishes and requirements of the patients on the ward will be taken into account during the process. This is an unsettling time for all residents of Heatherside and St. Columbanus. We owe them a duty of care and must ensure our primary focus is on each one of them. Each hospital, each local health office, managers, clinicians and others working in the health services have a responsibility to ensure they strive to provide the best possible service to patients and other clients of our health services. I am confident the executive will continue to work with the residents, their families and representatives to ensure they are relocated to the facilities which will best meet their needs.

Deputy Tom Sheahan: This was all decided without any consultations.

Deputy Barry Andrews: The House will agree the safety and well-being of older people is of critical concern. Quality care and patient safety come first and all patients should receive the same high standard of quality-assured care.

Services for People with Disabilities. Deputy Timmy Dooley: I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, to the House. He is committed to children with autism and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Recently I received a note from a mother which sets out the concerns of parents of children with autism. She states:

I write with reference to my two and a half year old daughter who has recently been diagnosed with autism and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. As I am sure you are aware autism is a severe disability that affects the normal development of the brain in areas of social interaction and communication. It is a lifelong disability and there is no cure. Approximately 1% of the population has this condition. In the last few weeks my husband and I have spent over \2,500 on consultation fees to have our daughter privately assessed in the hope that an early diagnosis and the appropriate intervention will help her have a better future. However, many parents in County Clare do not have the financial means to do this. The average wait time for autism screening in County Clare I believe is approximately one year and often when psychologists, occupational therapists and speech therapists are on leave they are not replaced so this results in even longer

546 Services for People 4 February 2009. with Disabilities

wait times. I feel that wait times for this screening need to be urgently addressed as it has been proven that early intervention gives these children the best chance of an independent future and ultimately this will save the State money later on. In the last few days I have contacted the HSE to see what sort of assistance they can provide my daughter in the future. I have been informed that autism is not regarded a long term illness under the terms of the long-term illness scheme. I would like to know why not. If autism is a lifelong disability with no prospect of a cure why is it not included in long- term illness scheme? With regards to attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, this is officially regarded as a mental disorder yet this is not covered by the scheme either. I have been informed by the HSE that they do cover mental handicap and mental illness in children under 16 but ADHD is not covered under the scheme. She continues: With regard to the GP visit medical card, I would like to know why my child and other children who have a lifelong disability do not have an automatic right to this facility? It seems outrageous that a child can be found to have a disability under the Disability Act 2005 yet have no right to a medical card because his or her parent or parents would not satisfy a means test. My child is unable to speak or gesture so I have to rely greatly on my own instincts much of the time to determine if she is ill. Like most autistic children she is completely unable to communicate that she is feeling sick, has a sore throat or tummy pain etc. I have quoted this into the record to give some sense of the concerns of parents, especially those dealing with children with special needs. It was appropriate and important I do so because from time to time, those of us in this House tend to forget or fail to recognise the difficulties parents have with children with special needs. I am particularly happy with the Minister of State present because of his function as Minister of State with responsibility for children. I ask him to intervene with the Health Service Execu- tive to ensure a greater level of service is made available to parents with children having special needs, especially with regard to early diagnosis. In this case the parent is 9 o’clock concerned about the inability to identify the illness at the earliest possible time. Best practice and research to date shows that early intervention plays a major role in ensuring a child develops to the best of his or her potential, whatever it may be. I look forward to the Minister of State’s answer and thank him for being here.

Deputy Barry Andrews: I thank Deputy Dooley for raising this very tough issue and I note his interest in it. I will take this matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney. I wish to emphasise the Government’s commitment to providing a high quality service to all people with a disability. This commitment is illustrated by the substantial investment we have been making in disability services over recent years. Very significant additional resources have been provided for services and supports in this area. The multi-annual investment programme, which is a key component of the Government’s disability strategy, had by the end of 2008 provided for approximately 980 new residential places, 313 new respite places, and 2,505 new day places for the intellectual disability service. There were 300 new residential places and 950,000 extra home care and personal assistance hours for people with physical and sensory disabilities. In the period 2006 to 2008, more than \500 million has been allocated to the Health Service Executive under the multi-annual investment programme, of which \425 million was for disability services and \125 million for mental health. The Government has further emphasised this pledge to people with disabilities by allocating additional funding to the continued development and enhancement of services in 2009. In the 2009 budget, an additional \10 million was

547 Health 4 February 2009. Services

[Deputy Barry Andrews.] allocated to the HSE for services in the area of disability and mental health. The funding for 2009 will provide for 125 additional therapy posts in the disability and mental health services area, targeted at children of schoolgoing age. In addition, once-off funding of \1.75 million is being provided for suicide prevention initiatives and mental health projects supporting service users and carers. With regard to the matter raised by the Deputy, the HSE states that up to the middle of 2008, the waiting times for children receiving psychology services increased owing to the fact that there were major difficulties in recruiting psychologists because of a shortage of qualified candidates for the position. This relative scarcity also presented challenges to the HSE in retaining psychologists to provide services. Both of these factors contributed to an increase in waiting lists. The HSE states that the current position on the provision of psychology services to children with suspected autism in Clare is that there is a full complement of psychologists working within the Clare children’s services since November 2008. Work has been commenced by the HSE on reviewing children who were assessed, diagnosed and put on a waiting list for psychology services. The HSE states that this review will take approximately four to five months to finalise. This review does not impinge on the level of existing services being provided in the area. The HSE also states that a new development in the provision of services to children with suspected autism is the establishment of a revised assessment and diagnostic procedure which is in line with best practice. All new referrals of children with suspected autism are covered by this process. The assessment process for the diagnosis of autism is complex and can take up to one week per child. The HSE states that notwithstanding the introduction of these quality improvements and the associated increase in workload, it expects that, on the assumption that staff can be retained, waiting times will reduce from the present average of one year. The HSE states that while approximately a third of referrals are children with suspected autism, the other two thirds are non-autistic children with very complex needs. The HSE maintains that these non-autistic children are also in need of appropriate services and this impacts on the quantum of service available at any given time for autistic children.

Health Services. Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing this matter to be raised on the Adjournment. The decision by Iarnro´ dE´ ireann to discontinue the FasTrack service from 31 March will have life-threatening consequences for a number of individuals who depend on the service for the transport of blood samples to Dublin hospitals from different locations throughout the country. A deeply distressed mother recently contacted me about the consequences of the discontinu- ation of the service. Her daughter suffers from a life-threatening and lifelong metabolic disorder, maple syrup urine disease. If this condition is not treated aggressively, it can lead to convulsions, brain damage and even death. This disease requires the mother to send a blood sample to Temple Street Hospital weekly and sometimes daily when the child suffers from illnesses such as chest infections, sore throats, toothaches, kidney infections or any condition which puts stress on the body. The sample must be analysed on the day it is taken to get an accurate reading so the mother of the child, under direction of the metabolic unit in Temple Street, can administer the appropriate dosage of medicine to treat the child’s condition. If the sample is not received on the day it is taken, the consequences could be fatal. Sometimes the

548 Health 4 February 2009. Services metabolic unit might advise the mother to have the child admitted to Kerry General Hospital or even to be taken by ambulance to Temple Street. Currently the child’s blood sample is transported on FasTrack from Limerick. Her mother finds this a very satisfactory arrangement, as there is an almost hourly service from Limerick to Dublin. The service is also used by two other families from Foynes and Askeaton in County Limerick which have children affected by a similar condition. In January the Health Service Executive in Tralee was informed that the service will be discontinued on commercial grounds because it was losing money. The mother in question has contacted a number of courier services operating in the Kerry and Limerick region but they could not give a guarantee delivery of a sample on the day it was taken on every occasion because of weather conditions or other circumstances. I appeal to Iarnro´ dE´ ireann to review this decision and consider providing a scaled-down service to facilitate the transport of blood samples, X-rays and, in some cases, even blood transfusions from individuals and hospitals. These are not bulky items and would need very little space on a train. If there is space available for bicycles on new trains, surely there could be a provision for medical items. This could be a matter of life and death for a number of families and it warrants the Minister of State’s intervention with both the HSE and Iarnro´ dE´ ireann. The company made a very insensitive decision on this without consultation with unions, the HSE or the Department of Health and Children. It did not realise the consequences of its actions because the service operates very well currently for both hospitals and individuals. If it is taken away, there will be repercussions and it will be a source of intense worry for the families and people affected. These people are under much strain already and they want to ensure the health of their children is protected, with the children given every chance of survival and hope to lead normal lives. Without this service, it will be very difficult to transport the blood samples to Dublin and get proper advice and medical intervention. I appeal to the Minister of State to take this matter seriously. I hope he can progress it further following this debate.

Deputy Barry Andrews: I thank Deputy Deenihan for raising this matter, to which I am replying on behalf of the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney. I assure the Deputy that the Minister and the HSE are committed to the highest level of patient care in our hospitals and throughout the health service, including in those circumstances where sick persons are enabled to remain in their homes. It is particularly important in the case of a child suffering from a severe illness that there should be no additional cause for concern for the family due to a failure in a system which is outside their control and, indeed, that of the health service. In the case in question, the child’s illness requires that, when a certain status prevails in her condition, a blood sample must be brought to Dublin to be tested in Temple Street Hospital on the same day. The HSE has been reimbursing the family for the cost of the rail transport whenever the service is required. It is understood that this occurs approximately 70 times per year. The family has been informed by Iarnro´ dE´ ireann that it will no longer be able to provide the conditions for carrying the blood samples by the fastrack service from the end of March 2009. The termination of this service has understandably given cause for alarm and concern to the family, particularly because the facility provided through the service had been instrumental in enabling the child to remain in her home in Listowel. The HSE is fully aware of the withdrawal of the rail service and understands the implications for the patient and her family. I am pleased to inform the Deputy that it is now in communication with the family and is examining the alternative arrangements that can be put in place

549 Ferry 4 February 2009. Services

[Deputy Barry Andrews.] to transport the samples as required. In light of the fact that the existing service will continue until the end of March, there is some time to make suitable alternative arrangements in order that there will be no gap in services. The HSE is committed to finding a satisfactory solution to this problem and has assured the Minister that it will pursue the matter in the coming weeks.

Ferry Services. Deputy Joe McHugh: On 25 November 2008, I received a reply to a parliamentary question I tabled to the Minister for Foreign Affairs in respect of the Government’s commitment to ferry services between Greencastle and McGilligan’s Point. The opening of this ferry connection in 2002 was an important demonstration of the expanding nature of links between the Republic and the North and of the Government’s commitment to the north west. However, that was then and this is now. The ferry service between McGilligan’s Point and Greencastle and that between Buncrana and Rathmullan are in serious jeopardy as a result of funding issues at local authority level. Limavady Borough Council and Donegal County Council initially offered a subvention in respect of these services. However, as the level of this subvention decreased, the operators were obliged to increase fares. Consequently, passenger numbers dropped and the ferries may not operate this year. The north west has one opportunity in the summer months to help sustain small businesses in the services and tourism sector and bring money into the Exchequer. Earlier today the House debated the public finances and from where we are going to obtain money. A major opportunity exists to allow us to benefit from visits from UK tourists this summer. Last year alone, 400,000 tourists visited the Giant’s Causeway in County Antrim and surveys indicate that people tend to travel from there, through McGilligan’s Point, on to Greencastle and then across to Rathmullan via Buncrana. They visit tourism attractions such as Glenveagh National Park and Doe Castle and places such as Malin Head. Essentially, they complete the entire historical and cultural tour. We need to retain this product. This summer will be one of opportunity. I am trying to be as positive and as constructive as possible because we need to considers ways in which potential might be created. Fa´ilte Ireland and Tourism Ireland have indicated that tourists from the UK — the Welsh, the Scottish and the English — are going to visit Northern Ireland. If they do so, we must try to benefit by encouraging them to travel across the Border. The only way this will happen is via the ferry links to which I refer. This is a massive opportunity. The UK is committed to providing £22 million in respect of the construction of a new visitor centre at the Giant’s Causeway. The figure of 400,000 tourists to which I referred earlier is approximate and may possibly be an underestimation. I am not seeking funding. However, I am seeking that a meeting involving the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, the North-South Ministerial Council and the special EU programmes body in respect of funding opportunities should be facilitated. Some \300,000 would be required to retain and maintain the two ferry services to which I refer. The British authorities see the route at Lough Foyle as an international crossing. In the context of the British- Irish Agreement, our Government does not perceive it as such. However, it is a vital item of infrastructure for tourism in the north west. It is a natural corridor that leads out onto the north Atlantic passage. As already stated, I am not seeking money. All I want is the facilitation of a meeting involving the special EU programmes body and the Minister for Transport. Limavady Borough Council and Donegal County Council do not have the money to pay for the ferry services.

550 Ferry 4 February 2009. Services

However, the EU might potentially be in a position to provide it and this could assist us in raising revenue for the Exchequer. In recent days the EU committed \100 million to an interconnector between Wales and Ireland so there is obviously funding available. I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, to use his influence to facilitate a meeting between the Minister and the special EU programmes body.

Minister of State at the Department of Transport (Deputy Noel Ahern): I thank the Deputy for raising this matter and I commend him on the enthusiasm with which he put his case. I have not visited the north west as a tourist for a number of years, but I recognise the potential to which he referred. However, I do not have any good news for him. As Minister of State at the Department of Transport, I do not have a function in respect of the ferry services to which he refers. I understand Donegal County Council provides funding for ferry services on Lough Swilly. The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has indicated that in the past, some funding for the Lough Foyle ferry service was provided by the UK authorities, with the balance from Donegal County Council. I accept that this is an important issue for people in County Donegal and Deputy Keaveney spoke to me yesterday in respect of it. I can outline the broader position with regard to what we do in the Department but I am not sure whether any of the information I will provide is specific to the matter raised by the Deputy. As Minister of State, I have responsibility for national ports policy, which relates to the provision of commercial port infrastructure and services. In addition, the Minister for Transport is the primary shareholder in the ten State-owned port companies.. However, neither he nor I have a role in the day-to-day operational matters of those companies. Current policy is that ports should operate commercially without Exchequer support. I also have responsibility for policy in respect of the shipping and maritime commerce sectors. It is important that the market, in the context of tourism and trade, should offer a diverse range of maritime links into and out of the State. The Deputy made a case in respect of the tourism aspect in this regard and I can see the value of that. It has not, however, been the practice of the Department to subsidise shipping routes, nor are there any funds available for this purpose. As the Deputy is probably aware, there are two European Commission programmes that encourage the development of transnational shipping routes with the objective of shifting freight from the roads network. These are the motorways of the sea and Marco Polo programmes and they are governed by a specific set of rules and a framework. The Irish Maritime Development Office, IMDO, regularly publishes full details of these programmes on its website, www.imdo.ie. The IMDO is the shipping sector’s statutory, dedicated development and promotional agency. When I first heard about this issue the Departments of Arts, Sport and Tourism and Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and local authorities came to mind because they may be involved in this area in the west and on the islands.

Deputy Joe McHugh: On a point of information——

An Ceann Comhairle: Points of information are not permitted during the Adjournment debate.

Deputy Joe McHugh: I wish to be helpful because I appreciate the Minister of State’s position and the fact that the issue falls between numerous stools.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy may not contribute again.

551 The 4 February 2009. Adjournment

Deputy Joe McHugh: I ask the Minister of State to facilitate a cross-party meeting to which Senator Keaveney should also be invited.

Deputy Noel Ahern: The issue does not have a home, as it were, and the Office of the Ceann Comhairle decided my Department should address it. I hate to deliver bad news but shipping services do not come within the remit of the North-South body and are not one of my responsibilities. I will relay the Deputy’s request for a meeting to the Minister for Transport, Deputy Noel Dempsey. I do not wish to raise hopes, however, as I do not believe the North- South body has addressed this type of issue to date.

Deputy Joe McHugh: I appreciate that.

The Da´il adjourned at 9.20 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 5 February 2009.

552 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Written Answers.

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The following are questions tabled by Members for written response and the ministerial replies as received on the day from the Departments [unrevised].

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Questions Nos. 1 to 23, inclusive, answered orally.

Questions Nos. 24 to 98, inclusive, resubmitted.

Questions Nos. 99 to 108, inclusive, answered orally.

Defence Forces Recruitment. 109. Deputy Michael D. Higgins asked the Minister for Defence the position regarding the proposed awareness and recruitment campaign for the Reserve Defence Force; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3502/09]

127. Deputy Pat Rabbitte asked the Minister for Defence the progress made in regard to the commitment given in the programme for Government to continue the ongoing policy of recruitment to the Reserve Defence Force through regular targeted recruitment campaigns. [3518/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 109 and 127 together. The Government decision of 8th July 2008 set out a requirement for savings to be achieved across the public sector. In this context, the recruitment and awareness campaign planned for 2008 for the Reserve Defence Force was postponed. There are no plans to initiate a central recruitment and awareness campaign in the current year. The Reserve Defence Force Review Implementation Plan outlined a range of measures to improve the capabilities of the Reserve over the period to end 2009. All of the elements of the Reserve Defence Force Review Implementation plan were identified as being important motivators for recruitment and retention of members of the Reserve and significant progress has been made to date in implementing the plan provisions. The decision to postpone the recruitment and awareness campaign was not taken lightly. It is intended to re-visit this important project when the prevailing budgetary situation permits. Recruitment to the Reserve will continue. However, this will be kept under review in light of the prevailing budgetary situation. 553 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

110. Deputy Tom Sheahan asked the Minister for Defence if recruitment for general service, apprenticeships and cadetships, respectively, is planned for 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3549/09]

130. Deputy Jim O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Defence the strength of the Defence Forces; and the recruitment plans for 2009. [3353/09]

135. Deputy Jan O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Defence the number of recruits taken into the Defence Forces throughout 2008, broken down in respect of the Army, Air Corps and Naval Service; the number expected to be recruited during 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3510/09]

148. Deputy Willie Penrose asked the Minister for Defence the cutbacks implemented in 2008 in regard to recruitment to the Defence Forces; the recruitment cutbacks it is intended to make during 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3512/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 110, 130, 135 and 148 together. I have been advised by the Military Authorities that the strength of the Permanent Defence Force as of 31 December 2008, the most recent date for which figures are available, was 10,408. A total of 507 recruits were enlisted into the Permanent Defence Forces during 2008. 441 were recruited to the Army and 66 to the Naval Service. In addition, 41 Cadets commenced their cadet training in September 2008. In common with other areas of the public service a reduction of 3% in payroll costs has been applied to the Defence Forces. Recruitment was suspended in late 2008 pending a review of the best means by which to achieve this reduction. My officials and the military authorities are keeping the situation under close review on an ongoing basis. The review and any subsequent recruitment in 2009 will prioritise the operational requirements of the Defence Forces.

Defence Forces Property. 111. Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence the arrangements that have been made to ensure that the officers living in steel containers in Cathal Brugha Barracks, Rathmines, Dublin 6, are moved to more suitable permanent accommodation as soon as possible; the estimated timeframe involved; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3562/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): My Department is engaged in an on-going capital programme designed to modernise and enhance the training, operational and accommodation facilities available to the Defence Forces both Permanent and Reserve. The programme focuses mainly on infrastructural projects comprising the construction of new buildings and the refurbishment of existing buildings. The requirement for living-in accommodation in Cathal Brugha Barracks and the Dublin area is being considered as part of the overall Defence Force requirements. The provision of any accommodation required there will be undertaken in conjunction with the overall Defence Force Infrastructure Development Programme. As you are aware the study of living in accommodation undertaken by the Defence Forces is expected to be complete early this year. One of the main preliminary findings of the study was that there is sufficient, good quality accommodation to meet the current requirement across

554 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers the Defence Forces generally and that any shortages are confined to only a few locations where the demand is high. The Deputy was invited to see the accommodation he refers to. I understand that he recently visited Cathal Brugha Barracks to view the accommodation there. The units he refers to are designed for single occupancy, they have en suite facilities and are fully furnished and heated. Military authorities have advised that they comply with all relevant regulations and that they are fully fit for purpose. I accept that they are temporary in nature and it is my intention to have occupants moved to more suitable accommodation as soon as it is possible to do so. Projects in the Capital Programme are prioritised in terms of addressing the Defence Forces operational requirements taking into account the annual capital allocation for the on-going building programme. Should the current allocation change the building programme will be reviewed and projects in the programme will be prioritised on a needs basis.

Defence Forces Ombudsman. 112. Deputy Michael Creed asked the Minister for Defence if a suitable premises has been found for the office of the Defence Forces Ombudsman in view of the inadequacy of the current office; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3625/09]

140. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Minister for Defence his proposals to provide appropriate accommodation for the Office of the Ombudsman to the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3496/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 112 and 140 together. The Office of the Ombudsman for the Defence Forces was established under the Ombuds- man (Defence Forces) Act 2004. On the 19th September 2005, Ms. Paulyn Marrinan-Quinn SC was appointed by the President, upon the recommendation of the Government, as the first Ombudsman for the Defence Forces. The Office of the Ombudsman is currently located in Hatch Street, Dublin 2. While the provision of accommodation for the Ombudsman is primarily a matter for the OPW, I am anxious to ensure that her office is provided with adequate and appropriate facilities. The Ombudsman has sought alternative accommodation and I have supported her request to the Office of Public Works. I am advised that the OPW identified potentially suitable premises that were then inspected by officials from the Ombudsman’s office. The Ombudsman has recently advised me that this particular premises was found not to meet the requirements of the Ombudsman’s office and that she had advised the OPW accordingly. I have since written to the OPW, again supporting the Ombudsman’s request.

Overseas Missions. 113. Deputy Jim O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Defence the annual cost of maintaining Irish troops in Chad; the support available either from the UN, the EU or otherwise towards this expenditure; and the projected length of the mission. [3352/09]

115. Deputy Lucinda Creighton asked the Minister for Defence his views on whether the EUFOR mission in Chad has been a success to date; the extent of future involvement of the Irish Defence Forces in the mission; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3463/09]

141. Deputy Brian O’Shea asked the Minister for Defence when a formal decision will be made to allow continued participation by members of Permanent Defence Forces with the

555 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Brian O’Shea.] peace keeping mission in Chad following the recent announcement of the Security Council that the United Nations should take over responsibility for the mission; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3493/09]

150. Deputy Jack Wall asked the Minister for Defence if he will make a statement on the progress of the Permanent Defence Forces serving with EURFOR in Chad. [3522/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 113, 115, 141 and 150 together. The European Union military mission to Chad and the Central African Republic, EUFOR TCHAD/RCA, established under the authority of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1778 (2007), was formally launched by the General Affairs and External Relations Council on 28 January 2008. A total of 425 Defence Forces personnel are currently serving with EUFOR (18 at the Operational HQ in Paris and 407 in Chad). Ireland is the second largest contributor to the mission. The aim of the mission is to protect civilians in danger, particularly refugees and internally displaced persons (IDPs), facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid, and protect UN personnel. The nature of the Irish Battalion duties includes, inter alia, short and long range patrolling, situational awareness and providing an overall security and deterrent presence within its area of operations. The EUFOR TCHAD/RCA Mission has progressed most satisfactorily. Despite the challenges that have faced the mission, a solid foundation has been laid, which will help prepare the way to build future successes and contribute to the long-term beneficial impact of a safe and secure environment. Improvements in security have also contributed to the limited return of IDPs in some specific locations. When the UN follow-on-mission is fully deployed and is able to provide the intended level of security, it is expected that the security situation at local level will improve, particularly from the criminality and banditry perspective. The estimated cost to the Defence Vote arising from participation in the EUFOR mission for twelve months will amount to approximately \57m. Unlike a UN “Blue Hat” type operation, all the costs of deployment, repatriation, rotation and sustainment, together with strategic and in- theatre tactical lift of the contingent, are met by each of the relevant troop contributing country. The only costs met by contributions from EU Member States are generally the costs of establishing and operating the headquarters facilities. On 14 January 2009, the Security Council unanimously adopted Security Council Resolution 1861 (2009), authorising the deployment of a military component of the UN Mission in the Central African Republic and Chad (MINURCAT) to follow on from the EUFOR mission at the end of its mandate, which expires on 15 March 2009. The Government has already approved, in principle, continued participation by the Irish Defence Forces in MINURCAT with a contingent similar in size and nature to its existing contribution to EUFOR. In that decision, the Government decided that its final approval will depend on the extent to which other current EU Member States will contribute to the follow- on mission. Most importantly, the level of logistics support that will be provided will be a key factor for consideration by Ireland. While not anticipating the future decision of the Govern- ment, the recently passed UN Security Council Resolution, the ongoing commitment of other EU member States and our understanding that France plans to continue to provide the necessary logistics support provides a sound basis for reverting to Government for a final substantive decision on the issue. I plan to bring proposals to Government shortly in this regard and, subject to its approval, to seek the approval of Da´il E´ ireann for Defence Forces participation in the UN follow-on mission. If approved, it is anticipated that the Defence Forces would serve with MINURCAT for an initial period of twelve months beyond 15 March 2009. Participation

556 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers in the mission beyond March 2010 would be subject to a satisfactory review of the mission and renewal of the mission’s mandate by the UN Security Council. As MINURCAT would be a UN-led operation, the UN will reimburse Ireland in respect of certain troop and equipment costs which are currently being charged to the Defence Vote. The reimbursement will be made mainly in the form of Appropriations-in-Aid to the Exchequer. The estimated amount of UN reimbursement of equipment and other costs cannot be determined at this stage as this dependant on detailed negotiations with the UN on the specific equipment, logistics and other costs required for participation in this mission.

Defence Forces Schemes. 114. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Defence his proposals to introduce a conciliation and arbitration scheme for the Reserve Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3498/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): Defence Force Regulations S.7 and its enabling legislation, the Defence Amendment Act, 1990, provide for representative structures for members of the Defence Forces including the Army and Naval Reserves. The question of a Conciliation and Arbitration Scheme for the ranks represented by the Reserve Defence Force Representative Association (RDFRA) has been raised by representatives of the association in the past. There are three (3) Conciliation and Arbitration Schemes in the country covering Teachers, Civil Servants and the Permanent Defence Force. Each covers an organisation with very large numbers of permanent employees. The Permanent Defence Force C&A scheme addresses issues affecting the livelihood of members of the Permanent Defence Force (PDF). The Reserve Defence Force (RDF) is a voluntary force and members are not dependant on it for their livelihood. Members of the RDF automatically accrue the benefits of improvements in pay and conditions made to their PDF colleagues. I am of the view therefore that a C&A scheme such as that in operation for the PDF Associations is not appropriate for the RDF. Under existing arrangements, RDFRA has open access to both the Department and the Military Authorities. A number of meetings take place each year between the Association and officials of the Department and separately between the Association and the Military Auth- orities. The frequency of this interaction has increased in recent times reflecting the modernisation agenda that is being progressed. My Department has initiated a joint forum where RDFRA, the Military and officials from the Department meet to collectively discuss and progress areas of concern to members of the RDFRA. The first such meeting was held in January 2007. Significant progress is being made in the modernisation of the Reserve. There is great credit due to both the members of the Reserve and their Representative Association for their contribution to this progress. Officials of my Department continue to discuss the issue with RDFRA. I will keep this situation under review to ensure that the good progress made to date continues into the future.

Question No. 115 answered with Question No. 113.

Naval Service Vessels. 116. Deputy Dan Neville asked the Minister for Defence if agreement on funding and approval has been received to award a contract for the purchase of two offshore patrol vessels

557 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Dan Neville.] for the Naval Service; when a decision will be made on this matter; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3623/09]

121. Deputy Liz McManus asked the Minister for Defence the expected timetable for the acquisition of three new vessels for the Naval Service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3508/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 116 and 121 together. The Naval Service provides the maritime element of the Defence Forces and has a general responsibility to meet contingent and actual maritime defence requirements. In the 2000 White Paper on Defence, the Government decided that the Naval Service would be based on an eight-ship flotilla and committed to a modernisation and replacement strategy to maximise the operational capacity of those eight vessels consistent with the roles assigned to the Naval Service. The White Paper specifically provides that “New vessels will be brought on stream to replace older ones as these fall due for replacement”. Naval Service Vessels are replaced when they have come to the end of their useful life, which is normally around 30 years. Three ships will fall due for replacement over the coming years — LE Emer, commissioned in 1978, LE Aoife, commissioned in 1979 and LE Aisling, commissioned in 1980. Following a detailed examination of the needs of the Naval Service within my Department, a vessel replacement strategy for the Naval Service was put in place to cover the period up to 2012. The strategy, combined with a continuous process of refurbishment, will ensure that the operational capability of the Naval Service is maintained at a satisfactory level. Following Government approval in July 2007, notice of a tender competition for the purchase of replacement vessels for the Naval Service was sent to the Official Journal of the European Union on 24 August 2007. The competition is for the purchase of two Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPV’s) with an option of a third and one Extended Patrol Vessel (EPV) with an option on a second. The options provide an effective value for money opportunity, at locked in prices, to provide replacements for Naval Service vessels, which will reach the end of their service life in the years immediately following the current replacement programme. Following Stage 1 of the tender competition for the OPVs, Stage 2 of the competition commenced on the 12th September 2008 with the issue of an Invitation to Tender to the shipbuilders who had been short-listed as part of the Stage 1 process. This document included a very detailed ship specification. The detailed tender responses were returned to the Department by the shipbuilders on the 11 November last. Tender evaluation commenced immediately and is still ongoing. It is expected to continue for a number of weeks. Subject to Government approval on funding, it is intended to award a contract for the OPVs to the preferred bidder during the first half of this year. The decision to proceed with the final award of contract to purchase the vessels will be subject to Government approval and agreement on funding; the full requirement for which will not be known until the evaluation of all tenders has been completed. Subject to Government approval on funding, it is expected that the new vessels will be delivered for acceptance by the Naval Service on a phased basis between 2011 and 2013. It is expected that the delivery date for the first OPV will be approximately 30 months after the date of signing of the contract whilst the specified delivery date for the second OPV will be approximately 37 months after the date of signing of the contract. If the Department exercises its option of purchasing a third OPV, a mutually agreeable delivery date shall be negotiated. These timelines are indicative and do not prejudice the right of the Department to adjust or alter the delivery schedule at the contract negotiation stage.

558 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

In the current difficult economic environment, it is important that we look to the efficiencies which all parts of the public sector can make so as to continue to deliver high quality public services within a more constrained financial resource envelope. However, it is also important that we continue to invest in public services so as we can maintain service levels into the future. Within the resources available to us, to maintain capacity, we need to continue the process of modernisation and reinvestment in the Defence Forces generally, into the future. The Naval Service Ships Programme is part of this process. The acquisition of these modern new vessels will ensure that the Naval Service will be fully equipped to carry out its day to day roles in enforcing the State’s sovereign rights over our waters and our fisheries and meeting Ireland’s obligations in the area of maritime safety and security and fisheries protection. In relation to the larger EPV, the Department intends to undertake further analysis of the proposals received following Stage 1 before the second stage is initiated. As with the OPVs, any decision to award a contract for the purchase of an EPV must be approved by the Government.

Reserve Defence Forces. 117. Deputy Kieran O’Donnell asked the Minister for Defence if he has received recommendations and a proposed plan of action with respect to the first line reserve on foot of the proposals that have been prepared by the military authorities; if not, when he expects to receive them; if the Defence Forces representative associations will be consulted on these recommendations and proposed plan of action before implementation; when such consultations will take place; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3594/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The Reserve Defence Force Review Imple- mentation plan provides for a phased approach to enhancing the capabilities of the Reserve over the period to the end of 2009. The introduction of new RDF organisational structures, the development of new training syllabi, improved equipment and clothing have successfully been delivered as part of Phase 1 of the Implementation Plan. Phase 2 of the Plan is currently being implemented and in line with the Implementation plan timeframe, proposals with respect to the First Line Reserve have been prepared by the Military Authorities. My Department has been discussing the development of the FLR with the military authorities and further information has been sought in relation to the proposals. I look forward to reviewing the recommendations and a proposed plan of action in due course. The Implementation Group will develop the timeframe for the implementation of recommendations as soon as these have been agreed. The representative associations will be consulted prior to any implementation of recommendations. Development of the First Line Reserve is also included in the Modernisation Agenda agreed with the Defence Forces Representative Associations in the context of Towards 2016 and will be advanced accordingly. My primary objective is to ensure that the experience and knowledge of the former Perma- nent Defence Force personnel of the First Line Reserve is utilised for the maximum benefit of the Defence Forces.

Defence Forces Strength. 118. Deputy Jan O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Defence the number of personnel in the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps; the way these compare to the establishment figures in each case; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3509/09]

559 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The White Paper on Defence of February 2000 sets out a figure of 10,500 personnel for the Permanent Defence Force comprising 930 for the Air Corps, 1,144 for the Naval Service and 8,426 for the Army. On 31 December 2008, the most recent date for which figures are available, the actual total strength of the Permanent Defence Force was 10,408 comprising 832 Air Corps, 1,070 Naval Service and 8,506 Army personnel. In common with other areas of the public service a reduction of 3% in payroll costs has been applied to the Defence Forces. Recruitment was suspended in late 2008 pending a review of the best means by which to achieve this reduction. My officials and the military authorities are keeping the situation under close review on an ongoing basis. The review and any subsequent recruitment in 2009 will prioritise the operational requirements of the Defence Forces.

Defence Forces Property. 119. Deputy Lucinda Creighton asked the Minister for Defence the progress made in resolv- ing the issue with the occupants of the married quarters in Cathal Brugha Barracks; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3462/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): Defence Forces Married Quarters are provided to serving members until their retirement or resignation. Defence Forces Regulations state that the Quarters must be vacated within 15 days of leaving the service. Following previous attempts to resolve the situation regarding the unauthorised occupation of the quarters in question, a letter was sent to the occupiers on the 11 September 2008 as a first stage in commencing a process of dialogue. Subsequently the occupiers had a meeting with the Department on the 23rd of September. At that meeting they were informed that my Department would welcome the opportunity to work with them to achieve a solution favourable to all parties. It would appear now, that arising from that meeting, all occupiers wish to purchase the quarters. My officials undertook to review the possibility of selling to the occupiers and a further meeting was scheduled for the end of October. At that meeting my Department outlined the conditions under which it would be prepared to dispose of the quarters and undertook to write to each occupant making a formal offer to sell, setting out the conditions of sale including price. These letters issued in early November and the occupants were asked to indicate their acceptance or rejection of the offer before the end of November 2008. Copies of all letters of offer and conditions of sale received from interested parties have been forwarded to the Chief State Solicitor Office with a view to progressing the sale of these premises. While most occupants have accepted my Department’s offer of sale, it is not clear at this time how many sales will be completed and what timeframe. I am satisfied that real progress is being made to bring this most unsatisfactory position to a conclusion that meets the needs of all parties.

120. Deputy Seymour Crawford asked the Minister for Defence if all personnel have been removed from Monaghan Army barracks; the person who is now in charge of security at the barracks; the cost per week; if he has had discussions with other Departments such as with officials at the Department of Education and Science for the use of this site in the future; his views on whether it would be ideal for use as a higher education structure; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3397/09]

136. Deputy Seymour Crawford asked the Minister for Defence if he is satisfied that there is sufficient reasonable quality accommodation for the Army personnel who have been moved from Monaghan barracks to Dundalk; if he will give an assurance that funding will be available

560 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers to upgrade and provide realistic accommodation and sports facilities; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3396/09]

137. Deputy James Bannon asked the Minister for Defence the arrangements his Department have or will put in place for the security of the barracks and posts being vacated by the Defence Forces; the estimated annual costs of these arrangements; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3554/09]

139. Deputy Michael D. Higgins asked the Minister for Defence if, in regard the budget 2009 announcement of the decision to close a number of Defence Forces barracks and military posts, he will list those closed at present; the estimated value of each such site, including buildings; if each such premises has been vacated; the manner in which it is intended to dispose of each site; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3503/09]

147. Deputy Ciara´n Lynch asked the Minister for Defence the steps taken to secure the sites recently vacated by the Defence Forces; if private security firms have been engaged for this purpose; the estimated cost of providing such security services; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3504/09]

154. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence the extent to which it is intended to divert the proceeds of the proposed sale of military installations, buildings or lands towards the further modernisation or upgrading of the Defence Forces or attendant facilities; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3533/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 120, 136, 137, 139, 147 and 154 together. The military authorities had conducted a detailed review of the immediate requirements to enable the closure of Monaghan, Lifford, Rockhill and Longford Barracks. In addition to some immediate requirements, medium term capital works to provide more permanent arrangements for the transferring personnel, have also been identified. These works will be completed over the next year as part of the ongoing Capital programme. The closure of the four barracks was completed on the 30th January 2009 and private security firms have been employed to provide security at the barracks in the short term with effect from the 30th January 2009. As the appointment of these contractor is temporary, for commercial reasons it would be inappropriate to state the cost per week at this stage. It is not anticipated that Private Security firms will need to be employed in the long term. However, my Department will continue to monitor the situation. The matter of the disposal of this property will be considered in the context of the current property market. It is my intention that the funding and savings from this initiative will, in accordance with current Government policy, again be reinvested in the Defence Forces. My Department will consider all of the options open to it in that regard. My Department is engaged in an on-going capital programme designed to modernize and enhance the training, operational and accommodation facilities available to the Defence Forces both Permanent and Reserve. The programme focuses mainly on infrastructural projects comprising the construction of new buildings and the refurbishment of existing buildings. The provision of training facilities and equipment are reviewed as part of this programme. Projects are prioritised in terms of addressing Defence Force operational requirements taking into account the annual capital allocation for the on-going building programme. Should the current allocation change the building programme will be reviewed and projects in the programme will be prioritised on a needs basis.

561 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Question No. 121 answered with Question No. 116.

Defence Forces Report. 122. Deputy Leo Varadkar asked the Minister for Defence if a report has been received by his Department from the consultants appointed to review the medical services of the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3546/09]

155. Deputy Pat Rabbitte asked the Minister for Defence the progress made in regard to the commitment in the programme for Government to develop the role and contribution of the medical corps and expand its capacity to deliver a range of medical facilities on UN mandated missions. [3519/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 122 and 155 together. I am committed to providing a sustainable medical service to meet the needs of the Defence Forces both at home and abroad. The challenges in the medical arena have been recognised for some time and a review of the provision of medical services, in association with the Representative Associations, is ongoing as part of the Modernisation Agenda for the Defence Forces. In view of the complexity of the challenge facing the Defence Forces in this area, I decided to engage consultants to make recommendations on the best means of meeting the medical requirements of the Defence Forces. I have not yet received the final report from the Consultants (PA Consulting). However, I understand that the drafting of the Report is ongoing and is nearing completion. Officials in my Department are currently engaged with the Consultants in quality assuring the work done to date to ensure that the report meets the requirements of the contract. It is expected that drafting will be completed within the coming weeks with a final report being delivered shortly after that. I eagerly await receipt of the report and following consideration of the recommendations, I intend to publish the report and engage with all of the key stakeholders on the way ahead. Notwithstanding the current situation, I can assure the House that Defence Forces personnel requiring medical treatment are getting the care they need.

Defence Forces Archives. 123. Deputy Andrew Doyle asked the Minister for Defence if suitable accommodation will be provided for military archives; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3587/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The Military Archives, located in Cathal Brugha Barracks, Rathmines, Dublin 6, is the place of deposit for the records of the Depart- ment of Defence, the Defence Forces and the Army Pensions Board under the terms of Section 14 of the National Archives Act 1986. Military archive files are held there and, because of storage space constraints, in other locations. A Military Pensions Archive project, covering the 1916 Rising and the War of Independence, is underway. The purpose of the project is to make the records for this period available to the public and to historians in good time for the 100th anniversary of the 1916 Rising in 2016. The requirement for a more suitable home for the Military Archives has been recognised for some time and has been the subject of significant research. The long-term accommodation for the Military Archive will be reviewed in the context of the military pension archive project.

562 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Civilianisation Programme. 124. Deputy Ruairı´ Quinn asked the Minister for Defence the progress made in regard to the commitment given in the programme for Government to expedite the civilianisation of all outstanding agreed posts. [3516/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The White Paper on Defence (2000) covers the potential benefits of civilianisation and contracting out of certain military posts. It recognises that civilianisation could “..release personnel for operational duties for which they are specifically trained”. It could release them “from essentially administrative and other tasks which can more appropriately be undertaken by civilians.” The Review of Implementation of the White Paper on Defence was published in April 2007. The Review emphasised that the primary objective of civilianisation centres on releasing soldiers for operational duties and increasing the operational capacity of the Defence Forces. The Review recommended further civil/military exploration of options for civilianisation. Civilianisation is incorporated into the “Pay Agreement and Modernisation Agenda” agreed with the Defence Forces Representative Associations in the context of the Towards 2016 Part- nership Agreement. In line with the commitment in the Programme for Government 2007-2012, my Department has engaged with the Military Authorities to identify military posts that may be suitable for contracting out and civilianisation. As I have previously outlined, this work requires careful consideration of the costs and benefits arising from the civilianisation of any identified posts and assessing the feasibility of any such proposals, with particular reference to resource constraints. In light of the Government decision requiring pay savings across all elements of the defence organisation, further action on civilianisation has been deferred for the present.

Asgard II Replacement Vessel. 125. Deputy Pat Breen asked the Minister for Defence if a decision has been made regarding the possible refloating of the Asgard II; if a temporary replacement vessel has been procured; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3635/09]

128. Deputy Kathleen Lynch asked the Minister for Defence the progress made with regard to the possible use of a temporary replacement vessel for the Asgard II; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3505/09]

132. Deputy Brian O’Shea asked the Minister for Defence the position regarding the raising of Asgard II from the seabed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3383/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 125, 128 and 132 together. A meeting of the board of Coiste an Asgard is taking place this afternoon at which the possible salvage of Asgard II will be further considered. Arising from that meeting I expect to get a recommendation from the board within the next day or two as to whether or not to proceed with a salvage operation. I will then make a decision on the matter without delay. The Board of an Coiste is actively pursuing the question of obtaining a temporary replacement vessel. I am hopeful that it will be possible to acquire a suitable vessel over the next couple of months and that this will allow a programme of cruises to be put in place commencing about May and continuing up to September/October.

563 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Overseas Missions. 126. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Minister for Defence the position regarding members of the Reserve Defence Forces who wish to serve abroad; if he expects that such personnel will be able to serve abroad during 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3501/09]

144. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Defence further to Parliamentary Ques- tion No. 73 of 26 November 2008, the progress that has made in providing for the service of members of the Reserve Defence Forces on overseas duties; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3486/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 126 and 144 together. In line with the provisions of the Reserve Defence Force Review Implementation Plan, it is hoped that a small number of Reservists will be able to undertake overseas service in late 2009. The military authorities have identified overseas posts requiring specific skills that may be filled by members of the Reserve. The military authorities have sought expressions of interest from suitably qualified Reservists who have undertaken integrated training and are at an advanced stage in identifying Reservists who may be eligible and willing to apply for a small number of specified overseas positions. Work on the necessary regulatory changes has progressed and terms and conditions of service are being considered. The Representative Associations will be consulted in the near future.

Question No. 127 answered with Question No. 109.

Question No. 128 answered with Question No. 125.

Defence Forces Equipment. 129. Deputy Liz McManus asked the Minister for Defence if it is intended to proceed with the acquisition of new light tactical armoured vehicles for the Defence Forces; when these are expected to be acquired; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3507/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): A contract for the supply of twenty- seven (27) Light Tactical Armoured Vehicles to the Defence Forces was awarded to BAE Systems based in South Africa in December 2008. The contract followed from a detailed tender competition, which was initiated in May 2008, and which concluded in November 2008. The intention is that the LTAV will complement the Mowag Armoured Personnel Carriers (APCs) in the conduct of conventional and Peace Support Operations and will fill a gap that exists between soft-skinned vehicles and the Mowag APCs. The contract for the supply of the 27 RG32M vehicles will run over a period of three years and has a value of \19.6m, inclusive of VAT. The cost of the programme will be covered over a number of years from the Defence budget, taking into account the current economic conditions. Deliveries of the vehicles will be sixteen in 2009 and eleven in 2010. The acquisition of the Light Tactical Vehicles is a top priority for the Defence Forces, given the extensive nature of their roles on overseas Peace Support Missions, the threat from impro- vised explosive devices and the potential for hostile fire in certain threat environments. Force protection remains a key issue in overseas peace support operations and it is very important that vehicles such as these are available to our personnel. The purchase of the vehicles is in line with the commitment given in the Programme for Government to continue investment in modern equipment for Defence Forces personnel and

564 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers the obligations of the State to provide appropriate support and force protection assets to deployed personnel.

Question No. 130 answered with Question No. 110.

Defence Forces Estimates. 131. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Defence if it is intended to make changes to his Department’s Estimate for 2009 in view of recent moves in relation to public expenditure. [3499/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): In addition to any changes that apply to the public sector generally, the non-pay element of the Defence Estimate for 2009, as published in the context of the Budget, will be reduced by \15 million as part of the overall savings announced by the Government yesterday. Details of the reductions in individual subheads will be contained in the Revised Estimates for Public Services to be published in mid March.

Question No. 132 answered with Question No. 125.

Overseas Missions. 133. Deputy P. J. Sheehan asked the Minister for Defence if the Defence Forces representative associations have been consulted on the terms and conditions under which members of the Reserve Defence Forces will serve overseas; if agreement has been reached with the representative associations as a result of this consultation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3601/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): In line with the provisions of the Reserve Defence Force Review Implementation Plan, it is hoped that a small number of Reservists will be able to undertake overseas service in late 2009. The military authorities have identified overseas posts requiring specific skills that may be filled by members of the Reserve. The military authorities have sought expressions of interest from suitably qualified Reservists who have undertaken integrated training and are at an advanced stage in selecting those suitable for overseas service. Work on the necessary regulatory changes has progressed and terms and conditions of service are being prepared. Consultation with the Representative Associations will commence in the near future.

Commemorative Events. 134. Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall asked the Minister for Defence when the committee to consider plans for appropriate commemorations to mark the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising in 2016 will be convened; the reason for the delay in convening a meeting; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3514/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The re-constituted Oireachtas All Party Con- sultation Group on commemorative issues met on 9 December 2008. The party members are Jimmy Deenihan, T.D., Joe Costello T.D., Aengus O´ Snodaigh T.D., and Michael Lowry T.D. as a representative of Independent members.

Question No. 135 answered with Question No. 110.

Questions Nos. 136 and 137 answered with Question No. 120.

565 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Defence Forces White Paper. 138. Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Defence if work has commenced on preparing the second White Paper on Defence; if the Defence Forces representative associations will be consulted during the preparatory phase; if they will be consulted on the draft White Paper before it is presented to Government for approval; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3615/09]

151. Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall asked the Minister for Defence when he expects to publish the White Paper on Defence for the period 2011 to 2020 promised in the programme for Govern- ment; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3515/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 138 and 151 together. The current White Paper on Defence, which was published in February 2000, was the first- ever White Paper on Defence and set out the policy framework and development strategy for the period 2000 — 2010. The overall Government objective was to achieve affordable and sustainable Defence Forces capable of fulfilling the roles laid down by Government. A detailed review of White Paper implementation has been conducted and a report was published in April 2007 outlining the findings. The report found that substantial progress has been made. The many detailed recommendations for change that were laid out in the White Paper have been implemented or are being implemented according to agreed timetables. The report also concludes that all the detailed targets should be met within the time-frame of the White Paper i.e. up to 2010. The Department of Defence and Defence Forces Strategy Statement 2008 — 2010 includes the commitment to prepare a new White Paper on Defence, in line with the Agreed Programme for Government. Work will commence on this project in the coming months with the aim of publishing the new White Paper in the latter part of 2010. The Defence Forces representative associations will be consulted during the preparation of the White Paper. Their views will be a welcome input to the consideration of the issues arising. In addition there will be broad consultation with other relevant stakeholders. This consultation will inform the drafting of the White Paper which will ultimately be submitted to Government for approval.

Question No. 139 answered with Question No. 120.

Question No. 140 answered with Question No. 112.

Question No. 141 answered with Question No. 113.

Defence Forces Schemes. 142. Deputy Jack Wall asked the Minister for Defence the progress made in regard to the commitment in the programme for Government to develop commissioning from the ranks programme. [3520/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): Significant progress has been made recently in implementing schemes to enable more commissioning from the ranks. The revised cadetship competition is now seen as the primary means of commissioning from the ranks. The cadetship competition has been revised to increase the maximum entry age to 28 and to award bonus marks to candidates with previous experience in the Permanent Defence Force (PDF) or Reserve Defence Force (RDF).

566 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Results for the 2007 and 2008 cadetship competitions were encouraging with a total of 18 applicants with military service in the Defence Forces being successful in the 2007 cadetship competition and a further 13 applicants with military service being successful in the 2008 cadetship competition. In addition, since 2005, 6 members of the Defence Forces were commissioned as officers from Direct Entry Competitions for appointments as Engineer Officers in the Corps of Engineers, Conductors in the Army School of Music and Aeronautical Engineer Officers in the Air Corps. An internal Commissioning From the Ranks competition was held in June 2007. This competition provided an opportunity for enlisted personnel who have passed the cadet entry age to compete for entry on a potential Officers Course and ultimately, a commission. As a result of the competition a total of 24 applicants (23 males and 1 female) were selected from the ranks of Junior and Senior Non-Commissioned Officers. Following successful completion of training in the Cadet School, these enlisted personnel were commissioned as officers of the Permanent Defence Force on 10 June 2008. Policy on the running of similar future competitions is being addressed. This issue is included in the Defence Forces Modernisation Action Plan agreed under “Towards 2016”. I have also asked the Chief of Staff for his views on the prospect of facilitating suitably qualified enlisted personnel to compete internally for technical/professional posts in the officer ranks in the future.

Reserve Defence Forces. 143. Deputy Ruairı´ Quinn asked the Minister for Defence the progress made in regard to the commitment given in the programme for Government to fully execute the Reserve Defence Forces implementation plan by the 2009 target. [3517/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The White Paper on Defence 2000 outlines the blueprint for the Reserve Defence Force (RDF). The Reserve Defence Force Review Implementation Plan provides for the phased enhancement of Reserve capabilities over the period to the end of 2009. In accordance with the Plan, revised organisation structures came into effect in October 2005. The Reserve has been re-organised along similar lines to the PDF with three brigades, a Reserve Defence Force Training Authority and a dedicated Naval Service Reserve. Improve- ments in clothing, equipment and training have been delivered. These factors were identified as being important issues for members of the Reserve, as well as being necessary to improve the overall capability of the Reserve. The Implementation Plan provides for the development of an Integrated Army Reserve. A pilot scheme for the Integrated Reserve was run in 2007 and continued into 2008. Whilst numbers participating were disappointing, valuable lessons have been learned. Options for continuing the Integration pilot into 2009 are being considered. In line with the provisions of the Plan, it is hoped that a small number of Reservists will be able to undertake overseas service in late 2009. The military authorities have identified overseas posts requiring specific skills that may be filled by members of the Reserve. The military authorities have sought expressions of interest from suitably qualified Reservists who have undertaken integrated training and are at an advanced stage in identifying Reservists who may be eligible and willing to apply for a small number of specified overseas positions. Work on the necessary regulatory changes has progressed and terms and conditions of service are being considered. The Representative Associations will be consulted in the near future. Recommendations with respect to the First Line Reserve are to be brought forward during Phase 2 of the Implementation Plan. Development of the First Line Reserve is included in the

567 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Willie O’Dea.] Modernisation Agenda agreed with the Defence Forces Representative Associations in the context of Towards 2016 and will be advanced accordingly.

Question No. 144 answered with Question No. 126.

Explosive Devices. 145. Deputy Kathleen Lynch asked the Minister for Defence the number of occasions during 2006, 2007, 2008 and to date in 2009, on which the Army bomb squad has been called out to deal with suspected explosive devices; the number of instances in each year in which the devices were hoaxes or authentic explosive devices; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3506/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The primary responsibility for the maintenance of law and order rests with an Garda Sıóchańa. The Defence Forces, pursuant to their role of rendering aid to the civil power, assist the Gardaı´ as required. Requests for aid to the civil power are normally made by a member of an Garda Sıóchańa not below the rank of Inspector. The Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) Team respond when a request is made by an Garda Sıóchańa, to the relevant Brigade, for assistance in dealing with a suspect device or for the removal of old ordnance. Information on the number of callouts in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 (to date) is set out in the following table.

Year Total Number of Callouts Number of Hoaxes (included in total)

2006 101 8 2007 98 11 2008 180 58 2009 as of 27/1/09 4 1

Question No. 146 answered with Question No. 107.

Question No. 147 answered with Question No. 120.

Question No. 148 answered with Question No. 110.

Defence Forces Equipment. 149. Deputy Willie Penrose asked the Minister for Defence if a decision has been made in regard to the replacement of the Air Corps Cessna fleet; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3513/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The issue of the replacement of the Air Corps Cessna Fleet has been considered by my Department in consultation with the military authorities. The question of funding the replacement programme has to be considered in tandem with the overall equipment requirements of the Defence Forces generally and the funding available for this. The Cessna replacement programme is not a current priority and as such, there is no specific provision in this year’s Defence Estimates for this project. As the Deputy may be aware, a very significant level of investment in new equipment for the Air Corps has taken place in recent years. The comprehensive investment programme included the delivery of eight Pilatus training aircraft at a total cost of \60m, the acquisition of two light utility EC 135 helicopters from 568 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Eurocopter S.A.S. at a cost of \12.8m, the acquisition of six utility AW 139 helicopters from AgustaWestland, Italy at a cost of \75m and a major mid life upgrade on the two CASA maritime patrol aircraft at a cost of \16.5m.

Question No. 150 answered with Question No. 113.

Question No. 151 answered with Question No. 138.

Overseas Missions. 152. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Defence the number of Defence Force personnel participating in overseas duties; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3487/09]

223. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence the number of locations at which the Defence Forces are serving overseas; the number of personnel involved; the expected numbers required in the future; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3794/09]

224. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence his plans for future participation in EU or UN sponsored missions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3795/09]

226. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence if further requests have been received for the deployment of more Irish troops on various EU or UN peace-keeping or peace-enforcement missions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3797/09]

228. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence if he is satisfied regarding the adequacy of strength of proposed deployments of Irish troops overseas with particular reference to the need to ensure sufficient strength for their own protection and that of their colleagues; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3799/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 152, 223, 224, 226 and 228 together. Ireland has offered, through the UN Standby Arrangements System (UNSAS), to provide up to 850 military personnel for overseas service at any one time. This figure equates to some 10% of Ireland’s standing Army (excluding Reserves) and demonstrates Ireland’s commitment to the cause of international peace. This is the maximum sustainable commitment that Ireland can make to overseas peacekeeping operations. Ireland is currently contributing 760 Defence Forces personnel to 14 different missions throughout the world. Full details of all personnel currently serving overseas are listed in the tabular statement. The main overseas missions, in which Defence Forces personnel are currently deployed, are the UN Mandated EU multi-national mission to Chad and the Central African Republic — EUFOR TCHAD/RCA — with 425 personnel, the NATO-led International Security presence (KFOR) in Kosovo with 233 personnel and EUFOR, the EU-led operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina, with 44 personnel. Other personnel are serving as monitors and observers with the United Nations, the European Union and the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). Staff are also deployed at the organisational headquarters of the UN, EU, OSCE and NATO. The UN has requested Ireland to consider putting the Irish troops, currently deployed with EUFOR TCHAD/RCA, under the command of the United Nations after 15 March 2009, when EUFOR’s mandate expires. The Government has already approved, in principle, continued participation by the Irish Defence Forces in the UN Mission in the Central African Republic and Chad (MINURCAT) with a contingent similar in size and nature to its existing contribution

569 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Willie O’Dea.] to EUFOR. I plan to revert to Government shortly seeking formal approval for Ireland’s participation in the follow-on mission and to then seek the approval of Da´il E´ ireann in accordance with the requirements of the Defence Acts. With regard to other future deployments, Ireland receives requests, from time to time, in relation to participation in various missions and these are considered on a case-by-case basis. When considering any particular request, the existence of realistic objectives and a clear mandate, which has the potential to contribute to a long-term solution, consideration of how the mission relates to the priorities of Irish foreign policy and the degree of risk involved are amongst the factors considered. Force protection is always a key consideration when Defence Forces are being deployed overseas. Contingents deployed overseas are provided with all the required military hardware to fulfil their role in any particular mission. For example in Chad, the Defence Forces have deployed a full range of force protection assets, including 17 MOWAG Armoured Personnel Carriers and 4 Close Reconnaissance Vehicles and indirect fire capabilities (mortars). These provide the necessary armoured protection, mobility, firepower and communications. The Defence Forces have also deployed a suite of robust tactical communications systems. Apart from the UN request to transfer Irish personnel currently deployed with EUFOR TCHAD/CAR under the authority of MINURCAT, no other deployments are planned or envisaged at this time.

Members of the Permanent Defence Force Serving Overseas as of 01 January 2009

Number

1. UN Missions (i) UNIFIL (United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon) HQ 6 (ii) UNTSO (United Nations Truce Supervision Organisation) — Israel, Syria and 12 Lebanon (iii) MINURSO (United Nations Mission for the Referendum in Western Sahara) 3 (iv) UNMIK (United Nations Interim Administration Mission in Kosovo) 4 (v) MONUC (United Nations Mission in Democratic Republic of the Congo) 3 (vi) UNOCI (United Nations Mission in Ivory Coast) 2 (vii) MINURCAT (United Nations Mission in the Central African Republic and Chad) 1 (Core Planning Team — UN HQ New York)

Total 31

UN Mandated Missions (viii) EUFOR (EU-led Operation in Bosnia and Herzegovina) 44 (ix) EUFORTCHAD/RCA (EU-led Operation in CHAD and the Central African 18 Republic) OHQ — Paris EUFOR TCHAD/RCA (EU-led Operation in CHAD and the Central African 23 Republic) FHQ — Chad EUFOR TCHAD/RCA (EU-led Operation in CHAD and the Central African 384 Republic) 99th Inf Battalion (x) KFOR (International Security Presence in Kosovo) HQ 15 KFOR (International Security Presence in Kosovo) 39th Inf Group 218 (xi) ISAF (International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan) 7

Total number of personnel serving with UN missions 740

570 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Number

2. Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) (i) OSCE Mission to Bosnia & Herzegovina 2 (ii) OSCE Mission in Belgrade — Serbia 1 (iii) OSCE Mission in Skopje — Macedonia 1 (iv) Staff Officer, Higher Level Planning Group, Vienna 1

Total number of personnel serving OSCE 5

3. EU Military Staff Brussels 6 4. Military Representatives/Advisers/Staff (i) Military Adviser, Permanent Mission to UN, New York 1 (ii) Military Adviser, Irish Delegation to OSCE, Vienna 1 (iii) Military Representatives to EU (Brussels) 4 (iv) Liaison Office of Ireland, NATO/PfP (Brussels) 2 (v) Military Representative to NATO/PfP Co-ordination Cell/Supreme 1 Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE), Mons, Belgium

TOTAL NUMBER DEFENCE FORCES PERSONNEL SERVING OVERSEAS 760

Discretionary Service Medals. 153. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Minister for Defence his views on awarding the discretionary service medal to a person (details supplied) in County Kilkenny in recognition of their involvement in the recovery of the bodies of those who died in the Niemba ambush in the Congo in November 1960; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3494/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): Defence Force Regulations A9 provide for the criteria and procedures for awarding Medals and Decorations to personnel of the Defence Forces. These Regulations require that any recommendations for possible awards must be made in accordance with the relevant procedures, and in the case of recommendations for the award of Distinguished Service Medals, such recommendation should be made not later than 4 years from the performance of the act in respect of which the recommendation is made. The military authorities advise that no such recommendation was made in this case. The Military Medal for Gallantry (2nd Class) was awarded posthumously to Trooper Anthony Browne in respect of what has become known as the “Niemba Ambush”. The Military Star was awarded to the families / next of kin of the nine members of the Defence Forces killed at the ambush. On 18 April 2007, I made a presentation to one of the survivors of the ambush at a ceremony in Cathal Brugha Barracks. Currently there are no plans to make any further awards to personnel in respect of this incident.

Question No 154 answered with Question No. 120.

Question No. 155 answered with Question No. 122.

Defence Forces Ombudsman. 156. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Minister for Defence if he is satisfied that staffing levels in the Office of the Ombudsman to the Defence Forces are sufficient to carry out its mandate; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3497/09] 571 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The Office of the Ombudsman for the Defence Forces was established under the Ombudsman (Defence Forces) Act 2004. On the 19th September 2005, Ms. Paulyn Marrinan-Quinn SC was appointed by the President, upon the recommendation of the Government, as the first Ombudsman for the Defence Forces. I am advised that the Ombudsman has a staff level of four (4), consisting of the Ombudsman, an investigating officer, an office manager and clerical support. My officials have had discussions with the Ombudsman about the workload of the Office. However, in the light of the restrictions on public service payroll costs there are no current plans to assign additional staff to the Office. I am confident that the Ombudsman will utilize all existing resources in continuing to fulfill her role. The situation will be kept under review with the Ombudsman.

Defence Forces Purchases. 157. Deputy Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for Defence if human rights or ethical considerations in relation to vendors are taken into account when making purchases for the Defence Forces. [3441/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The principle of competitive tendering for Government contracts is used for the acquisition of defensive equipment for the Army. Central to those procedures is the requirement to allow fair competition between suppliers through the submission of tenders, which are assessed on the basis of obtaining best value for money by the Department of Defence. The principles of transparency, non-discrimination and equality of treatment are applied to the widest possible extent by my Department to companies interested in supplying such equipment following a tender process. Tender competitions are held in accordance with the EU Code of Conduct on Export Con- trols. Accordingly, competitions are open to any individual or country in accordance with the terms of all UN, OSCE and EU arms embargos or restrictions.

Departmental Expenditure. 158. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Taoiseach the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by his Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if he will supply the information in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3715/09]

The Taoiseach: The information sought by the Deputy is in the following table.

Date Launch / Event

2007 10th Jan 07 Launch National Centre for Partnership and Performance Strategy Document 2007- 2010 Venue: Room 308 28 Jan 07 Launch the Report of the Seafood Strategy Review Group (Cawley Report) Venue: Press Centre, Govt. Bldgs* 5 Feb 07 Launch of the European Year of Equal Opportunities for all Venue: Dublin Castle 19 Feb 07 Attend Press Conference on Referendum on Children’s Rights Venue: Press Centre* 19 Feb 07 Meeting with the President of Poland Venue: Press Centre*

572 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Date Launch / Event

21 Feb 07 Launch of the 2007 Commmemorative (An Post) Stamps Programme Venue: Italian Room 21 Feb 07 Press Launch of National Action Plan on Inclusion Venue: Press Centre* 26 Feb 07 Launch of Church / State Dialogue Venue: Dublin Castle 12 March 07 Launch of the White Paper on Energy Venue: Press Centre* 26 Mar 07 Meeting and press conference with the President of Slovakia Venue: Press Centre * 28 Mar 07 Launch of the Report of the Taskforce on Active Citizenship Venue: Italian Room and Press Centre 4 Apr 07 Meeting with Ian Paisley and Ian Paisley Jnr, DUP Venue: Farmleigh 18 Apr 07 Launch of the National Women’s Strategy Venue: Press Centre* 11 May 07 Visit to the Battle of the Boyne Site Venue: Oldbridge House, Co Meath 25 Oct 07 Launch of the Road Safety Strategy 2007-2012 Venue: Press Centre* 29 Nov 07 Attend event to mark World AIDS Day “Stamp out Stigma” Venue: Room 308 29 Nov 07 Launch of Climate Change Awareness Campaign Venue: Press Centre*

2008 30 Jan 08 Press Conference regarding Office for Disability and Office for Older People Venue: Press Centre* 31 Jan 08 Address the National Forum on Europe Venue: Dublin Castle 7 Feb 08 Attend North South Ministerial Council Venue: Dundalk 14 Feb 08 Attend British Irish Council Venue: Royal Hospital Kilmainham 14 April 08 Meeting with the President of the European Commission Jose´ Manuel Barroso, Venue: Govt Blds 14 April 08 Press Conference, with Chancellor Merkel Venue: Government Buildings 28 Apr 08 Launch of OECD Review of the Public Service Venue: Dublin Castle 6 May 08 Official Opening of the Battle of the Boyne Site with First Minister Paisley Venue: Oldbridge Estate 8 July 08 Press Conference to announce Public Spending Measures Venue: Press Centre * 21 July 08 Press Conference with the President of France Venue: Govt Bldgs 29 Nov 08 Launch of Report of Task Force on the Public Service. Venue Dublin Castle. 18 Dec 08 Launch Building Irelands’ Smart Economy — Framework for Sustainable Economic Renewal. Venue; Dublin Castle *Press launches/events hosted by my Department and held in the Government Press Centre are not subject to any extra third party costs. Tea/Coffee etc are provided in-house by services staff and technical support by the Office of Public Works.

The table contains the main list of press conferences and policy launches which were held by my Department. Costings will be communicated to the deputy in the coming days. 573 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Motor Fuels. 159. Deputy Paul Kehoe asked the Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- ment the reason the price of motor fuel has been rising in the past number of days; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3650/09]

Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Deputy Mary Coughlan): The Irish oil industry is fully privatised, liberalised and deregulated and there is no price control on petroleum products in Ireland. Prices at the pump reflect global market price (traded in dollars), Euro/Dollar fluctuations, refining costs, transportation costs, other operating costs, prevailing excise duty and VAT. Recent increases in pump prices may be attributable to a number of factors, including conflict in oil producing regions, the strengthening dollar and lower refinery outputs generally. The Deputy may be aware that in response to concerns expressed by a number of commentators that the benefits of the decline in the wholesale price of oil were not being passed on to consumers, I requested the National Consumer Agency to undertake a survey into the underlying reasons as to why pump prices for petrol and diesel were not falling in line with the drop in the wholesale price of oil. As part of its work, the agency benchmarked movements in prices in Ireland against those in other EU countries and it examined the frequency and the timeliness in which changes in the wholesale price were being passed on to consumers. The agency’s report on this matter was published on 19 December 2008. The report’s overall finding was that, at national level, price changes for refined petroleum products are being passed on to consumers in a relatively timely fashion. The agency did identify a range of gaps in the manner in which information on retail and diesel prices are collected and publicised. It is my intention to work in conjunction, with the National Consumer Agency and my colleague the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to see how best these information gaps can be addressed.

Industrial Development. 160. Deputy Willie Penrose asked the Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number of visits made by or on behalf of the Industrial Development Auth- ority and Enterprise Ireland to County Kilkenny, for each of the years ending 31 December 2006, 31 December 2007 and 31 December 2008; the number of approved projects by each of these bodies in Kilkenny for the periods specified; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3657/09]

Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Deputy Mary Coughlan): Under the Industrial Development Acts, both IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland are independent in the exercise of their functions and, while I may give general policy directives to the agencies, I am precluded from giving directives regarding individual undertakings or from giving preference to one area over others. While both agencies are very active in Kilkenny, as outlined below, I am informed by IDA that there have been no itineraries to Kilkenny arranged by the agency for prospective investors during 2006, 2007 or 2008. Enterprise Ireland does not sponsor site visits to locations around the country. Enterprise Ireland has a large number of client companies in County Kilkenny and during the years 2006, 2007 and 2008 it approved a total 92 new investments, involving grant approvals of \28,253,694, to its client companies in Kilkenny. The number of approvals in each year together with the grant approvals are set out in the following tabular statement.

574 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Although there have been no new IDA projects approved for Kilkenny in the same three- year period there are, at present, four IDA supported companies in Kilkenny employing 390 people. In line with the National Spatial Strategy, IDA is concentrating its efforts in Kilkenny on Kilkenny city. In marketing the city for new foreign direct investment, the agency is focused on attracting overseas companies in the services and knowledge-based industries (including advanced manufacturing). Key sectors of focus for the medium term are international services and financial services. The development by IDA of the 20 hectare Kilkenny Business and Technology Park will assist greatly in the attraction of new investment. In addition, the development of the IDA Belview lands (55 hectares) in South Kilkenny for large-scale utility intensive industry will ultimately benefit County Kilkenny as well as neighbouring Waterford City and the wider region. It must be remembered that as Ireland competes for investments at the highest end of the value chain the concept of scale is crucial to our economic destiny. Leading corporations require a significant population of highly qualified talent, effective physical and digital infrastructure, coupled with availability of sophisticated professional support services. If we are to continue being successful in realising a large proportion of our investments outside of the larger cities, all economic and social stakeholders will need to adhere to the framework on which the NSS is constructed. In the final analysis it is the investor who decides where to visit and where to locate.

Table showing number of Enterprise Ireland approvals in County Kilkenny in each of the years 2006, 2007 and 2008

Year Number of approvals Amount

2006 20 795,963 2007 39 26,339,254 2008 33 1,118,477

Total 92 28,253,694

IDA Properties. 161. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the landbanks owned by the Industrial Development Authority in all locations in County Mayo; the extent of such landbanks; the extent of each such landbank not being used; her plans for each such landbank in the coming period; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3696/09]

Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Deputy Mary Coughlan): The management of IDA Ireland’s industrial property portfolio, including the purchase of land and the creation of business parks, are day-to-day operational matters for the agency and not matters in which I have a function. I have been informed by IDA Ireland that it owns a total of 73.82 hectares of land in County Mayo, of which 48.17 hectares are in use and 25.65 hectares are available and currently being marketed. The following tabular statement sets out the location and size of the individual properties. In line with the National Spatial Strategy and the National Development Plan, IDA Ireland has focused on developing quality business parks in gateway and hub locations, and in a number of county towns to meet the express needs of its clients. 575 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Mary Coughlan.] In County Mayo, IDA has already developed Business and Technology Parks in Castlebar and in Westport, which are being marketed by the Agency. In Ballina, IDA has concluded the purchase of 10.61 hectares of industrially zoned land, on the Sligo Road, from Mayo County Council. It is intended that tenders for site development on this site will be invited in the near future. Through its network of overseas offices, IDA is actively marketing Mayo for new inward investment while, at the same time, continuing to work with its existing base of overseas companies in County Mayo to encourage them to grow and expand.

Table showing location and size of IDA Land in Mayo

Location Total Hectares Hectares in Use Hectares available

Ballina (Bunree Industrial Estate) 10.29 8.88 1.41 Ballina Business & Technology Park 10.61 0.00 10.61 Ballinrobe Business Park 1.54 1.54 0.00 Ballyhaunis Business Park 2.55 2.55 0.00 Castlebar Business & Technology Park 11.18 8.09 3.09 Castlebar Business Park 5.19 5.19 0.00 Castlebar (Gorteen) 1.62 1.62 0.00 Charlestown Industrial Park 0.71 0.71 0.00 Claremorris Industrial Estate 2.87 2.87 0.00 Foxford Business Park 1.46 0.78 0.68 Knock Business Park 0.49 0.49 0.00 Westport Business & Technology Park 25.31 15.45 9.86

Total 73.82 48.17 25.65

Departmental Expenditure. 162. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by her Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if she will supply the information in tabular form; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3708/09]

Ta´naiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Deputy Mary Coughlan): Details of press conferences and policy launches held by my Department are given in the following table:

Date Subject Cost \

10/01/07 Farm Safety Booklet with Dept. of Agriculture and Food — 24/01/07 Employment Permits Act, 2006 *4,086 26/01/07 NDP spend of \13.6 billion investment in enterprise — 01/02/07 Consumer Protection Bill 807 11/02/07 Employment Rights Agenda 642 28/02/07 Forfa´s Influenza Planning Report 547 21/03/07 ESRI Bullying Report 409 25/04/07 Business Regulation Forum 45

576 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Date Subject Cost \ 26/04/07 “Tech-Check” Programme for Small Business 721 03/05/07 Company Law Review Group Report 578 18/05/07 Code of Practice for Domestic Workers 272 18/12/07 ESF Human Capital Investment Programme 2007-2013 (HCIOP) **20,660 10/01/08 Workers Rights Campaign 100 14/02/08 Forfa´s Review of the European Single Market in Ireland 385 18/03/08 Employment Law Compliance Bill 404 02/04/08 Report of High Level Group on Manufacturing 584 24/06/08 Innovation Policy Statement 571 30/07/08 Labour Relations Commission Annual Report 416 06/08/08 High Level Group on Business Regulation 243 12/09/08 Services Strategy 45 15/12/08 1st Report on Implementation of Strategy for Science and Technology 378 *A seminar for key stakeholders, attended by some 150 companies, was also held on the same day at this launch, which included detailed presentations to companies on how the new administrative arrangements under the Act would apply. The cost includes the seminar. **This refers to a launch and seminar for key stakeholders. The event also celebrated the 50th anniversary of the European Social Fund (ESF). The events were in compliance with the regulatory requirements relating to the receipt of European Social Funding.

National Lottery Funding. 163. Deputy Mary Upton asked the Minister for Finance the percentage of national lottery revenue that is directed towards sport; if this money is ringfenced for sports; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3749/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): In 2008, the total allocation provided for sports related subheads which are part-funded by the National Lottery surplus was \113.631m. The National Lottery contribution to the funding of all subheads (including sports subheads) part-funded from the Lottery amounted to \265m or 56.8% of the allocations in those subheads in 2008. As the Lottery funds are treated as an item of general non-tax revenue, it is not possible to indicate the percentage of Lottery funding contained in any individual subhead.

Tax Code. 164. Deputy Paul Kehoe asked the Minister for Finance the number of persons availing of the artists exemption scheme; the breakdown of their respective occupations; the amount expected to be waived in 2009; the amount of revenue exempted in the years 2006, 2007 and 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3651/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): It is assumed that what the Deputy requires is the cost to the Exchequer of the exemption of certain earnings of writers, composers and artists by reference to artistic category and the number of artists in each category claiming the exemption. I am informed by the Revenue Commissioners that the relevant available information relates to the overall cost to the Exchequer of the exemption and the total numbers of claimants as included in income tax returns filed for the income tax year 2005, the latest year for which the necessary detailed information is available. 577 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Brian Lenihan.]

In that year an estimated number of 2,220 claimants availed of the artists’ exemption scheme at an estimated cost to the Exchequer of \34.8 million. A married couple who has elected or has been deemed to have elected for joint assessment is counted as one tax unit. Projections for income tax receipts are based on assumed movements in macroeconomic parameters and not by reference to the costs of individual tax reliefs. Accordingly, I am not in a position to provide the data requested by the Deputy for 2009 in respect of the exemption. A breakdown of these figures by artistic category is not available but the Deputy may wish to know that under Freedom of Information legislation, the Revenue Commissioners publish details on their website of individuals who have been granted a determination allowing them to claim the Artists Exemption in respect of income earned from the sale of their works. The names of those qualifying for the relief with effect from 21 April 1998 are available and the list is set out in alphabetical order in each of the five categories of work covered by the exemption, viz. (a) a book or other writing, (b) a play, (c) a musical composition, (d) a painting or like picture, (e) a sculpture. The list is updated on a quarterly basis. This information can be found on the Revenue website at www.revenue.ie.

Departmental Expenditure. 165. Deputy Arthur Morgan asked the Minister for Finance the estimated savings of a 10% cut in travel and subsistence allowances across all State Departments. [3653/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): The 2009, estimated allocation for travel and subsistence costs for all Government Departments and Offices amounts to some \67 million in 2009 (a reduction of just over 7% on the previous year), a 10% reduction in this allocation would yield a saving of \6.7 million.

Tax Code. 166. Deputy Jack Wall asked the Minister for Finance if a person (details supplied) in County Kildare has received all their tax credits for the year; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3681/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): I have been advised by the Revenue Commis- sioners that they have received no correspondence to date from this taxpayer in relation to his tax credits. In order to determine tax credits a Form 12 was issued to the taxpayer on 3 February. On receipt of a completed return it will be processed and any necessary amendments to tax credits will be made.

Banking Sector. 167. Deputy Joe Costello asked the Minister for Finance if it is still proposed that Anglo Irish Bank move to the new premises under construction, subject to planning permission, at North Wall Quay-New Wapping Street following the nationalisation of the bank; if Anglo Irish Bank is the bank for a company (details supplied); the terms that were negotiated for the leasing of the building; if his Department is still bound by these terms; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3684/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): Anglo Irish Bank is being run on an arms length commercial basis to allow the full potential of the bank’s business to be realised. Accord- ingly, normal commercial decisions, which include decisions on the premises of the bank, are

578 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers a matter for the Board of Anglo. Details on Anglo’s individual customers and contracts are commercially sensitive and would also relate to the bank’s normal ongoing business. The Board of Anglo is preparing a comprehensive business plan which will be required to demonstrate how the Board will oversee the continued commercial operation of the bank in the best interests of the bank, the financial sector generally and the State.

Departmental Expenditure. 168. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Finance the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by his Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if he will supply the information in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3710/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): The following table gives details of press conferences and policy launches requested by the Deputy.

Year Details of Press Conferences/Policy launches Cost \

2007 Launch of National Development Plan 2007-2013 68,846 2007 Launch of the National Strategic Reference Framework 4,137 2007 Budget 2008 — Photographic assignments and laser presentation 1,440 2007 Finance Bill 1,556 2007 Quarterly Exchequer Statement releases Jan 08-Sep 08 465 2007 Pre Budget Outlook 2008 730 2008 Budget 2009 — Photographic assignments and laser presentation 1,262 2008 Finance Bill 1,216 2008 Quarterly Exchequer Statements Dec 08-Sep 09 620

Garda Stations. 169. Deputy Charlie O’Connor asked the Minister for Finance if he will furnish a report from the Office of Public Works on plans to provide temporary office accommodation for Tallaght Garda station, Dublin; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3743/09]

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Martin Mansergh): The provision of office accommodation for use by some administrative units of the Garda Sı´ocha´na currently based in Tallaght Station is being actively pursued.

Tax Yield. 170. Deputy Arthur Morgan asked the Minister for Finance the yield from standardising the tax relief if all discretionary tax relief schemes were made available only at the standard rate. [3746/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): I am advised by the Revenue Commissioners that the deductions and reliefs which are allowable for tax at an individual’s marginal rate of income tax and for which estimates of cost can be provided are set out below together with estimated costs for the year 2005, the most recent year for which the necessary detailed information is available except where otherwise stated. If relief for these deductions and reliefs was confined to the standard rate of income tax the saving to the Exchequer could be of the order of \1,000 million. 579 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Brian Lenihan.]

This estimate does not take into account any possible behavioural change on the part of taxpayers as a consequence of such a change or the economic effect of such a change. This applies in particular to the BES, Film Relief, Pensions Contribution Relief and Capital Allow- ances regime. The standard rating of employee pension reliefs would also have an impact on workers’ take home pay.

Tax Relief Provision 2005 Cost

\m Person Taking Care of Incapacitated Taxpayer 1.8 Health Expenses 134.0 Contributions Under Permanent Health Benefit Schemes, after Deduction of Tax 3.2 on Benefits Received Interest paid relating to borrowings for purposes such as acquiring an interest in a 22.2 company or partnership or to pay death duties. Expenses Allowable to Employees under Schedule E 65.0 Donations to Approved Bodies 34.0 Donations to Sports Bodies. 0.2 Retirement Relief for certain Sports Persons. 0.3 Revenue Job Assist allowance 0.4 Allowance for seafarers 0.4 Investment in Corporate Trades (BES) 16.1 Investment in Seed Capital 1.3 Stock Relief 2.0 Relief for expenditure on significant buildings and gardens 3.3 Donation of Heritage items 5.8 Capital Allowances ( Income Tax only) 734.5 Rented Residential Relief — Section 23 239.7 Investment in Films 15.7 Employees’ Contributions to Approved Superannuation Schemes* 540.0 (2006) Retirement Annuity Premiums* 380.0 (2006) Personal Retirement Savings Accounts* 120.0 (2006)

Total 2,319.9 *Estimate of cost revised for 2006 as part of the work on the Green Paper on Pensions.

Tax Code. 171. Deputy Mary Upton asked the Minister for Finance the number of artists availing of the artists tax exemption for each of the past ten years; the number of people and amount they claimed in tax exemption for 2008 in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3753/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): I am informed by the Revenue Commissioners that the available information relates to the exemption of certain earnings of writers, composers and artists who made income tax returns for the eight income tax years 1998-99 to 2005, the latest year for which the necessary detailed information is available, and is as follows:

580 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Tax Year Number of claimants

1998/99 900 1999/00 940 2000/01 1,200 2001 1,430 2002 1,600 2003 1,700 2004 1,970 2005 2,220

A married couple who has elected or has been deemed to have elected for joint assessment is counted as one tax unit. The cost to the Exchequer of the Artists’ Exemption Scheme in 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available, is estimated at \34.8 million.

172. Deputy Mary Upton asked the Minister for Finance if changes are planned to the artists tax exemption scheme for 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3754/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): All tax reliefs currently in operation, including the Artists’ Exemption Scheme, are being reviewed by the Commission on Taxation. The Com- mission will make its report in September 2009.

173. Deputy Mary Upton asked the Minister for Finance if he will tackle the issue of tax exiles in 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3755/09

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): I have been advised by the Revenue Commis- sioners, in relation to work carried out as part of its risk-based programme, that they have no reason to conclude that there is any failure to comply with the rules governing non-resident status. As part of their ongoing work, the Revenue Commissioners continue to include the examination of a cross-section of non-resident cases in their risk-based programmes. However, the Deputy will be aware that I have recently made a change to the so-called “Cinderella” or “midnight rule”. Up until 1 January 2009, an individual was regarded as present in the State for a day, for tax residence purposes, only if he or she was present in the State at midnight on that day. Section 15 of the Finance (No. 2) Act 2008 amended the tax residence rules to provide that an individual will now be regarded as present in the State on a day if he or she is in the State at any time during the day, not just at midnight. This will apply for the 2009 tax year and subsequent tax years. I wish to also point out that the tax residency rules are reviewed on an ongoing basis.

Health Service Staff. 174. Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall asked the Minister for Finance if it is the case that hospital consultants are not liable for the tax levy; if not, the reason for same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3800/09]

Minister for Finance (Deputy Brian Lenihan): The position is that the category of persons referred to by the Deputy has not been provided with an exemption and will be subject to the income levy on aggregate income from all sources.

581 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Food Safety. 175. Deputy Andrew Doyle asked the Minister for Health and Children the reason for the delay in replying to Parliamentary Question No. 205 of 25 November 2008. [3643/09]

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Deputy Mary Wallace): Parliamentary Question No. 205 of 25 November 2008 was answered in full. However, I understand that the Deputy is referring to Parliamentary Question No. 144 of 10 December 2008 which asked about “the number of bottled water plants that have been inspected in 2007 and 2008 out of the total number, by category; the number of infringements that were found; the nature of the infringements; and the way the public were informed on foot of the infringements”. The reason for the delay in replying to this question was that the information had to be collated by the Food Safety Authority of Ireland in conjunction with the Health Service Execu- tive. This information has now been made available to me and is set out in the following table.

Total number of bottled Number producing Natural Number producing Spring Number producing Other water plants in the country Mineral Water Water Water

25* 3 9 16

There was a total of 22 inspections in 2007 resulting in 12 infringements. There was a total of 24 inspections in 2008 resulting in 9 infringements. The types of infringement reported ranged from labelling, structural hygiene,traceability procedures and microbiological criteria. The nature of the infringementsin most cases did not warrant the need to notify the public. There was however, one occasion when this course of action was required and this was on 16 July 2008 when a product recall of Pure Spring Natural Still Water was necessary as some batches did not comply with microbiological criteria for bottled waters *The reason the figures in this heading do not agree is because some plants produce more than one type of water.

Health Service Expenditure. 176. Deputy James Reilly asked the Minister for Health and Children the details of accommodation and premises leased to the Health Service Executive in an area (details supplied) in County Donegal; the date on which each lease agreement was signed; the rent per square metre for each of the premises leased; the amount each lease cost in 2008; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3660/09]

Minister for Health and Children (Deputy Mary Harney): Property leased to the Health Service Executive in the Letterkenny area, County Donegal is a service matter and has been referred to the Health Service Executive for direct reply.

Medical Cards. 177. Deputy Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for Health and Children the reason a person (details supplied) in Dublin 12 has been refused a full medical card. [3661/09]

Minister for Health and Children (Deputy Mary Harney): As this is a service matter it has been referred to the Health Service Executive for direct reply to the Deputy.

Health Service Expenditure. 178. Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for Health and Children the cost in 2008 and the projected cost for 2009 for each office rental property in each county within the Health Service Executive west region; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3672/09] 582 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Minister for Health and Children (Deputy Mary Harney): Arrangements in relation to the rental of property is a service matter and the question has therefore been referred to the Health Service Executive for direct reply.

Health Services. 179. Deputy Jack Wall asked the Minister for Health and Children if a person (details supplied) in County Kildare has had their level of care reviewed as per correspondence; the proposals agreed in regard to the case; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3673/09]

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Deputy Ma´ire Hoctor): As this is a service matter it has been referred to the Health Service Executive for direct reply.

180. Deputy Charlie O’Connor asked the Minister for Health and Children the progress on the development of the new primary medical care team centre at Tallaght town centre, Dublin; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3687/09]

Minister for Health and Children (Deputy Mary Harney): As the Deputy’s question relates to service matters it has been referred to the HSE for direct reply.

Services for People with Disabilities. 181. Deputy Ruairı´ Quinn asked the Minister for Health and Children the number of children with autism from the Dublin north catchment area who have been discharged from their school or service upon reaching the age of 18 and adulthood and subsequently transferred to other institutions (details supplied); the figures individually for each of these institutions; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3688/09]

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Deputy John Moloney): As the Deputy’s question relates to service matters I have arranged for the question to be referred to the Health Service Executive for direct reply.

Tobacco-Related Diseases. 182. Deputy Rory O’Hanlon asked the Minister for Health and Children her plans to address the issue of the use of tobacco here in view of the recent World Health report; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3698/09]

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Deputy Mary Wallace): I regard the reduction of tobacco use in Ireland as a key public health priority. The Department of Health and Children is pursuing a range of measures aimed at reducing tobacco use. Price has also been identified as an effective tobacco control measure, particularly in preventing young people’s initiation and subsequent addiction to tobacco. The minimum price of cigarettes below which cigarettes cannot be sold was increased to \7.14 with effect from 1 September 2008. The recent increase in the budget of 50% has brought the price of the most popular brands of cigarettes to over \8.00, making cigarette prices in Ireland the highest in the EU and the second highest in Europe. From May 2007, the sale of cigarettes in packs of less than 20 and sale of confectioneries that resemble cigarettes was banned. The key provisions of the Public Health (Tobacco) Acts 2002 and 2004 to be commenced with effect from 1 July 2009 include: no advertising for tobacco products permitted in-store, no display of tobacco products permitted, all tobacco products must be out of view and stored within a closed container only accessible by the retailer, all retailers will have to register with the Office of Tobacco Control in order to sell tobacco products, and self-service vending machines will only be permitted in licensed premises or registered clubs.

583 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Mary Wallace.] The aim of these provisions is to further de-normalise tobacco and to protect children from the dangers of tobacco consumption. Research shows that tobacco advertising at the point of sale is a key factor in a young person starting and continuing to smoke. If young people can be prevented from purchasing tobacco products there is less chance they will become addicted and suffer a smoking related illness. Restricting advertising will also support adults who are trying to quit. The Health Service Executive provides a range of services aimed at reducing tobacco use. This work is undertaken via anti-smoking media campaigns, by increasing awareness through the formal education system, through the “Smokers Quitline” service and through its smoking cessation services.

Departmental Expenditure. 183. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Health and Children the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by her Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if she will supply the information in tabular form; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3712/09]

Minister for Health and Children (Deputy Mary Harney): The information requested by the Deputy is currently being collated in my Department and a reply will issue directly at the earliest opportunity.

184. Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall asked the Minister for Health and Children the wage bill for community welfare staff in the Waterford and Wexford local health office areas respectively; and the total received from the Department of Social and Family Affairs in respect of this wage bill. [3732/09]

Minister for Health and Children (Deputy Mary Harney): As this is a service matter, it has been referred to the HSE for attention and direct reply to the Deputy.

Health Service Staff. 185. Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for Health and Children the number of surgeons in each acute hospital in the Health Service Executive western area; the number of procedures under each surgical category performed in each hospital in each of the past five years; the staffing complement in each Department; her plans to develop these facilities and range of surgical procedures; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3739/09]

Minister for Health and Children (Deputy Mary Harney): As this is a service matter, it has been referred to the HSE for direct reply.

Medical Cards. 186. Deputy Charlie O’Connor asked the Minister for Health and Children when provisions of the Health Act 2008 will be implemented; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3744/09]

Minister for Health and Children (Deputy Mary Harney): Under the Health Act 2008, automatic entitlement to a medical card for persons aged 70 or over ceased on 31 December 2008, and with effect from 1 January 2009, the income thresholds for entitlement to a medical card for those aged 70 or over is \700 (gross) per week (\36,500 per year) for a single person and \1,400 (gross) per week (\73,000 per year) for a couple. Where the spouse/partner is under 70 years of age, he or she can qualify under the over 70s medical card scheme if the combined gross incomes of the applicant and dependant spouse/partner are within the income threshold limit of \1,400 (gross) per week.

584 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Persons whose income is above the specified thresholds will have until 2 March 2009 to advise the Health Service Executive that their income is above those limits. After that date, their medical card will no longer be valid.

187. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Minister for Health and Children the conditions of medical cards for over 70 year olds (details supplied); and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3760/09]

Minister for Health and Children (Deputy Mary Harney): Under the Health Act 2008, automatic entitlement to a medical card for persons aged 70 or over ceased on 31st December 2008, and with effect from 1st January 2009, the income thresholds for entitlement to a medical card for those aged 70 and over is \700 (gross) per week (\36,500 per year) for a single person and \1,400 (gross) per week (\73,000 per year) for a couple. Where the spouse/partner is under 70 years of age, he/she can qualify under the over 70s medical card scheme if the combined gross incomes of the applicant and dependant spouse/partner are within the income threshold limit of \1,400 (gross) per week. Under the over 70s medical card scheme, from 1st January 2009 any savings and similar investments up to \36,000 (single)/\72,000 (couple) will be disregarded and only interest from savings or similar investments above these figures will be considered as income for means testing purposes. The remainder of savings and similar investments will be assessed on the income calculated at a notional interest rate, based on the prevailing interest rates at the time of application. The Health Service Executive’s (HSE) Central Application Unit will review the notional rate (currently 3%) on a quarterly basis. Alternatively, where an applicant wishes to have the actual interest from savings/investments considered, then the HSE will apply this approach and use the most beneficial option in favour of the applicant, subject to submission of the appropriate certificates from the relevant institutions. In the case of “longer term” investment accounts, where the interest is only applied at the end of a fixed period, if the applicant so wishes, the HSE will only take account of the interest earned on the date the investment matures.

Departmental Expenditure. 188. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Transport the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by his Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if he will supply the information in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3716/09]

Minister for Transport (Deputy Noel Dempsey): The number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by my Department in 2007 and 2008; and the cost of hosting each one is set out in tabular form set out as follows.

Date Event Cost \

05/07/2007 Selected Route for Metro West 796.71 23/10/2007 Coast Guard Conference 582.82 20/11/2007 Workplace Travel Plan 314.00 13/12/2007 Marine Conference 206.29

Total for 2007 1,899.82

25/01/2008 National Roads Allocations 2008 2,168.77 15/02/2008 Non National Roads Allocations 2008 4,231.02 25/02/2008 Minister Launches National Consultation on Sustainable 1,026.05 Transport and Travel

585 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Noel Dempsey.] Date Event Cost \ 05/03/2008 Launch of Transport 21 Annual Report 804.43 03/03/2008 Minister Launches New Irish Coast Guard HSE Ambulance 740.02 Response Team 14/04/2008 Minister publishes Dublin Transport Authority Bill 1,141.57 14/10/2008 Budget 2009 61.00 24/11/2008 Launch of Report of Maritime Passenger Transport Forum 621.34

Total for 2008 10,794.20

Light Rail Projects. 189. Deputy Arthur Morgan asked the Minister for Transport the progress being made in relation to connecting the two Luas lines; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3763/09]

Minister for Transport (Deputy Noel Dempsey): Last year, I mandated the Railway Procure- ment Agency (RPA) to proceed with planning the delivery of Luas Line BX/D based on the Agency’s preferred route for Line BX (St. Stephen’s Green to City Centre) and the use of the old Broadstone railway alignment for Line D (City Centre to Liffey Junction/Broombridge). It will not be possible to fully construct Luas Line BX at the same time as construction of Metro North because of the traffic management implications that would arise in the city centre. The RPA is developing a construction strategy for Luas Line BX, in close co-operation with Dublin City Council, which includes use of Metro North construction sites and recognises the traffic management requirements of the city centre. The RPA is engaging with Dublin City Council on the basis of the contemporaneous delivery of Lines BX and D. I understand from the RPA that, following public consultation, the preferred route option for Line D has also been identified. The RPA is now progressing to the detailed design phase and commencing the EIS with a view to making a single railway order application for the combined Line BX/D to An Bord Pleana´la in the latter part of this year. The start and completion dates of LUAS line BX/D will be determined by the outcome of work being undertaken by Dublin City Council and the RPA in developing a construction strategy, the outcome of the statutory approval and procurement processes and the funding allocation available to my Department during the current difficult economic climate.

Taxi Regulations. 190. Deputy Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for Transport the reason for the delay in the publication of the Goodbody economic review report commissioned by the Com- missioner for Taxi Regulation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3764/09]

191. Deputy Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for Transport if his attention has been drawn to the recommendations contained in the Goodbody economic review report commissioned by the Commission for Taxi Regulation which was due to be published in 2008; and if a proposal that a moratorium on the issue of taxi plates is one of those recommendations. [3765/09] 586 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

192. Deputy Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for Transport if he has been in communication with the Commission for Taxi Regulation to ascertain the possible publication date of the Goodbody economic review report commissioned by the Taxi Regulator, which was due to be published in 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3766/09]

Minister for Transport (Deputy Noel Dempsey): I propose to take Questions Nos. 190 to 192, inclusive, together. Under the Taxi Regulation Act 2003, the Commission for Taxi Regulation is the independent public body responsible for the regulation and control, including licensing, of taxis, hackneys, limousines and their drivers. I understand that the Commission for Taxi Regulation is currently carrying out an economic review of the small public service vehicle (SPSV) sector and that the consultants assisting with this task are currently compiling their final report which will be presented to the Commission for Taxi Regulation this month. When the Commission’s review is completed and published I will consider any recommendations relevant to my statutory obligations.

Coastguard Service. 193. Deputy Fergus O’Dowd asked the Minister for Transport the allocation of the coastguard budget for each coastguard station by location for each year since 2004 with a breakdown under all budgetary headings for each year; the number of persons employed and the number of volunteers in each such station; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3938/09]

Minister of State at the Department of Transport (Deputy Noel Ahern): The Irish Coast Guard transferred to the Department of Transport from the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources on 1st January 2006. The Irish Coast Guard has fifty-five Stations from which marine rescue services are delivered by volunteer units available for emergency callouts. Budgets are not allocated by Station as expenditure varies as circumstances demand. The overall budget allocation for 2009 has not yet been finalised. The direct local expenditure by this Department for each station is approximately as follows.

Expenditure for each Station in \000 and Volunteer Numbers

Coast Guard Stations 2006 2007 2008 Number of Volunteers

Achill 188 32 752 24 Ardmore 7 15 25 14 Arklow 2 2 5 Partnered with Courtown Ballybunion 10 20 13 26 Ballycotton 8 10 15 19 Ballyglass 9 10 12 20 Baltimore < 1 < 1 < 1 Partnered with Toe Head Bonmahon 15 40 14 20 Bunbeg 331 47 148 34 Carnsore Point 4 13 18 16 Castlefreke 10 6 83 15 Castletownbere 9 21 17 21 Cleggan 17 20 22 23 Clogherhead 6 4 24 21

587 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Noel Ahern.] Coast Guard Stations 2006 2007 2008 Number of Volunteers

Costello Bay 8 35 551 24 Courtown 6 4 9 17 Crosshaven 22 17 74 24 Curracloe 5 8 13 13 Dingle 24 28 44 21 Doolin 33 57 89 28 Drogheda 28 43 145 28 Dun Laoghaire 6 8 7 15 Dunmore East 21 38 41 20 Fethard 12 18 16 21 Glandore 5 7 5 17 Glenderry 2 2 3 11 Goleen 5 2 16 22 Greencastle 27 21 54 28 Greenore 5 28 15 14 Greystones 18 23 22 21 Guileen 7 4 6 15 Helvick Head 2 8 2 11 Howth 26 54 77 29 Kilkee 3 15 14 20 Killala 35 18 42 25 Killybegs 19 20 45 25 Kilmore Quay 5 13 16 14 Knightstown 11 15 17 16 Mulroy 22 15 46 22 North Aran 1 1 2 11 Old Head of Kinsale 3 5 13 16 Oysterhaven 8 6 14 18 Rosslare 9 18 46 21 Seven Heads 3 9 21 12 Skerries 18 17 27 17 South Aran < 1 < 1 < 1 Partnered with Doolin Summer Cove 2 4 2 10 Toe Head 22 1,334 48 27 Tory Island 2 < 1 7 Partnered with Bunbeg Tramore 18 23 26 17 Waterville 2 4 6 11 Westport 56 18 17 25 Wicklow 8 12 7 Partnered with Greystones Youghal 10 10 13 19 Lough Derg 8 28 59 28

Total 1,143 2,237 2,826 986

Sharp increases in particular years for individual stations indicate construction costs of the building programme. 588 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Garda Training. 194. Deputy Ruairı´ Quinn asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the ongoing education and training programmes in place for garda officers to educate them in the complex area of congenital disabilities such as spina bifida and hydrocephalus; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3641/09]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): I am informed by the Garda Commissioner that Disability Ireland provides training at the Garda College to Phase III students in meeting and communicating with people with disabilities. There is no specific training provided focussing on people with congenital disabilities.

Refugee Status. 195. Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of applications (details applied) which have been processed by his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3676/09]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): As the Deputy will be aware, applications for refugee status in the State are determined by an independent process comprising the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner and the Refugee Appeals Tribunal which make recommendations to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on whether such status should be granted. The information requested by the Deputy is not available as statistics are not maintained in relation to the grounds under which asylum applications are made or determined.

Citizenship Applications. 196. Deputy Catherine Byrne asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the status of an application for citizenship by a person (details supplied) in Dublin 6; when a decision will be made in this case; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3677/09]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): An application for post nuptial citizenship for the person referred to in the Deputy’s Question was received in the Citizenship Section of my Department on 27 June 2005. Processing of this application is still ongoing and it is anticipated that the file will be completed in the near future. The legal representatives of the individual concerned recently contacted the Department to state that they no longer represent the individual and this has resulted in delays in processing. Officials in the Citizenship (post-nuptial) Section will be in contact with the individual concerned as soon as the application is completed.

Garda Deployment. 197. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of gardaı´ assigned to community policing in County Mayo; his plans to increase the number of community gardaı´; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3691/09]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): I am informed by the Garda Commissioner that the personnel strength of the Community Policing Unit in the Mayo Division as at 31 December 2008, the latest date for which figures are readily available was 8. It is the responsibility of the Garda Commissioner to allocate personnel throughout the Force taking everything into account. The situation will be kept under review and when additional

589 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Dermot Ahern.] personnel next become available, the allocation of Gardaı´ to the Community Policing Units referred to by the Deputy, will be fully considered by the Commissioner within the overall context of policing requirements throughout the country.

Crime Levels. 198. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of offences committed by persons on bail for each of the years 2006 to 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3692/09]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): The Garda Sı´och- a´na Act 2005 makes provision for the compilation and publication of crime statistics by the Central Statistics Office, as the national statistical agency, and the CSO has established a dedicated unit for this purpose. I have requested the CSO to provide the statistics sought by the Deputy directly to him.

Departmental Expenditure. 199. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by his Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if he will supply the information in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3713/09]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): I wish to inform the Deputy that it has not been possible to compile the information requested in the time available. A response is being prepared and will be forwarded to the Deputy as soon as possible.

Departmental Records. 200. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the reason fees are levied on the release of documents relating to road collisions to relatives of individuals who have been tragically killed in road collisions; if he will abolish the fee for releasing these documents in view of the circumstances within which they are being requested and the fact that these documents provide the only avenue for victims’ families to discover the way in which the fatal collision that claimed their loved one’s life occurred; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3730/09]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): I am advised by the Garda authorities that it is the policy of An Garda Sı´ocha´na to appoint a Family Liaison Officer to liaise with the family of victims of fatal road traffic accidents and provide timely and accurate information relating to the progress of the Garda investigation of the accident and any prosecutions arising therefrom. I am also advised by the Garda authorities that persons involved in road collisions, their legal advisors or insurers, or other interested parties may, on written request, be supplied with an abstract of the police report, copies of witness statements and sketches or maps of the scene. This information is not supplied in cases where criminal proceedings are contemplated or have been initiated. Fees for abstract reports and copies of witness statements and photographs are charged in order to recoup costs incurred in the preparation of same. There are no plans to provide an exemption for such fees at this time.

590 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

The Deputy may also be aware that there is a statutory requirement for an inquest to be carried out in respect of all road traffic fatalities.

Residency Permits. 201. Deputy Paul Kehoe asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the action an Australian citizen who is here for the past two years on a working holiday visa and who wants to apply for a permanent residency visa, must take; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3772/09]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): I am informed by the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service that there is no provision for permanent residency in Irish Immigration legislation for non EEA nationals. The Working Holiday Authorisation which is issued by the Department of Foreign Affairs is available to young people from Australia who wish to stay in Ireland for an extended holiday and who are afforded the opportunity to work casually in order to fund their stay. It is granted for a duration of one year and is non renewable. Legal residency in this State is granted for a number of reasons including working permit conditions, marriage to Irish national or EU national and naturalisation. It is open to a non- EEA national who has resided legally in the State to apply for long term residency. These applications are considered in respect of persons who have resided legally in the State for a period of 60 months or longer on the basis of Work Permit, Work Authorisation, or Working Visa conditions. Applicants for Naturalisation must have 60 months reckonable legal residency in the State prior to their application, with one year’s continuous reckonable residency immediately prior to their application. Non-EEA nationals who intend to reside in the State longer than three months are required to register with the Garda Registration Office for the area in which they intend to reside. The onus is on each individual to ensure that their permission to remain in the State is up to date at all times.

Departmental Expenditure. 202. Deputy Kathleen Lynch asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if his attention has been drawn to the fact that the staff of regional offices of an organisation (details supplied) have been without pay for the past four weeks due to the current dispute between his Department and the chief executive officer of the organisation; his views on putting in place an interim arrangement to pay the salary of those staff pending the resolution of the dispute; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3925/09]

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Deputy Dermot Ahern): I am aware of the regrettable situation in relation to the organisation referred to by the Deputy. My Department is in close contact with the organisation concerned. I am glad to say that significant progress is now being made towards securing a viable financial agreement between both parties that can stand up to scrutiny from a good governance perspective. The priority is to quickly put in place the necessary structures to justify State funding to meet the organisation’s liabilities as well as to ensure continuing support to disability groups through its networks.

591 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

203. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by his Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if he will supply the information in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3711/09]

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Deputy Michea´l Martin): There have been twenty eight press conferences or policy launches held in my Department since the beginning of 2007. Details of these events, including any costs incurred, are presented in tabular form. Most of the events were press conferences. These usually take place at my Department’s headquarters or, on occasion, at the Government Press Centre in Government Buildings. There are generally no cost implications for formal press conferences, or from informal or so called ‘doorstep’ press conferences. As the Deputy will see from the table, my press conferences are normally either connected with a policy initiative or, more commonly, are joint events with visiting Foreign Ministers or similar office holders. A number of important policy launches also occurred within the timeframe of this question. Most of these related to the Irish Aid programme, the European Union or policy initiatives in the area of Consular services provided to our citizens abroad.

2007

Date Event Cost

30 January 2007 Press Conference, Irish Aid signing of a five year partnership with the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS) Nil 31 January 2007 Press Conference, Bethlehem, Minister announced that the Government is to increase funding in support of Palestinian refugees Nil 05 February 2007 Launch of the Irish Aid Rapid Response Corps Nil 11 February 2007 Launch of White Paper on Irish Aid Nil 16 February 2007 Press Conference, Minister Dermot Ahern T.D. meeting in Dublin with Mohamed El Baradei of the International Atomic Energy Agency Nil 21 February 2007 Launch of Irish Aid health policy paper 1,586 26 February 2007 Press Conference, British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference, Dundalk Nil 06 March 2007 Launch of World Bank Forum on African Innovation Nil 08 March 2007 Press Conference, Irish Aid — Announcement of Irish Aid multi-annual support for Christian Aid 955 27 March 2007 Press Conference, announcement of five year strategy on Global Health Partnerships by Minister of State, Conor Lenihan T.D. Nil 02 April 2007 Press Conference, Irish Aid — Announcement of new Irish Aid strategic partnerships with key UN Agencies Nil 10 April 2007 Press Conference, Irish Aid — Launch of Hunger Task Force Nil 18 April 2007 Press Conference, announcement of Irish Aid multi-annual funding to Tro´ caire Nil 23 April 2007 Launch of All-Ireland Collaborative Research Partnership between UCD, TCD and QUB Nil 24 April 2007 Launch by Minister of State, Conor Lenihan T.D. of Irish Aid’s schools linking and immersion scheme — WorldWise Nil 25 April 2007 Launch of Irish Aid Environment Policy for Sustainable Development Nil

592 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Date Event Cost \ 10 May 2007 Press Conference, announcement of Irish Aid multi-annual funding to Concern Nil 05 June 2007 Press Conference with former President Jimmy Carter — Croke Park Conference Centre Nil 25 June 2007 Press Conference — meeting with Archbishop Desmond Tutu Nil 13 August 2007 Launch of the Report on Irish Prisoners Abroad 1,503 30 August 2007 Publication of Irish Aid Annual Report 2,117 12 September 2007 Joint Press Conference, Minister Dermot Ahern T.D. and Northern Secretary of State, Shaun Woodward Nil 26 October 2007 Joint Press Conference by Minister of State, Dick Roche T.D. with French Minister for European Affairs Jean-Pierre Jouyet Nil 21 November 2007 Press Conference, meeting with UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Nil

2008

Date Event Cost

\ 09 January 2008 Joint Press Conference, Minister Dermot Ahern T.D. and Nil Northern Secretary of State, Shaun Woodward 21 January 2008 Official opening of Irish Aid Volunteering and Information 656 Centre by the Taoiseach, Minister for Foreign Affairs and Minister of State 23 January 2008 Launch of Consular Services Charter, Travel Safely 1,995 04 February 2008 Press conference at Institute of European Affairs Nil 12 February 2008 Launch of a Guide to the Reform Treaty Nil 13 February 2008 Launch of the Guide to the Reform Treaty by Minister of 1,919 State, Dick Roche T.D. 26 February 2008 Press Conference at Windsor House, Belfast Nil 27 February 2008 Announcement of Support for Women in Politics in Nil Developing countries by Minister of State, Michael Kitt T.D. 28 February 2008 Joint Press Conference, Minister Dermot Ahern T.D. and Nil Northern Secretary of State, Shaun Woodward 28 February 2008 Joint Press Conference, Minister Dermot Ahern T.D. and Nil Commissioner Wallstro¨ m 04 March 2008 Announcement of 20 million in funding for Irish Missionary Nil Resource Service by Minister of State, Michael Kitt T.D. 05 March 2008 Press Conference at Government Buildings on EU Reform Nil Treaty Bill 07 March 2008 Press Conference regarding the publication of the legislation, Nil Twenty-Eight Amendment of the Constitution Bill 11 March 2008 Press conference and Q&A in UCC on “The EU Reform Nil Treaty: In Ireland’s Interest” 02 April 2008 Launch of White Paper on EU Reform Treaty, Customs 2,906 House Quay 03 April 2008 Joint Press Conference, Minister Dermot Ahern T.D. and Nil Northern Secretary of State, Shaun Woodward 16 April 2008 Official Signing of the Irish Aid and International Federation Nil of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies Partnership 2008/09 01 May 2008 Press Conference on issue of Undocumented Irish,Washington Nil

593 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Michea´l Martin.] Date Event Cost D.C 12 May 2008 Press Conference to announce events to mark Africa Day 2008 561 19-30 May 2008 Cluster Munitions Conference at Croke Park Conference Nil Centre, Minister Michea´l Martin T.D. — Press conference on 30 May 29 May 2008 Joint press Conference between Minister Michea´l Martin T.D. Nil and the Norwegian Minister for Foreign Affairs 17 June 2008 Launch of ‘Bullets in the Alms Bowl’ report on Burma 2,289 23 June 2008 Launch of Consular Services Office, Cork 1,558 24 June 2008 Launch of the Partnership Agreement with the GAA to Nil promote Gaelic Games Abroad (hosted by the GAA at no cost to DFA). 05 August 2008 Launch of non-governmental organisation “Self Help Africa” Nil by Minister of State, Peter Power T.D. 27 August 2008 Launch of Irish Aid Annual Report for 2007 at the Irish Aid 474 Centre 09 September 2008 Joint press Conference between Minister Michea´l Martin T.D. Nil and British Foreign Secretary, David Miliband 10 September 2008 Briefing on the findings of the report on the outcome of the Nil Reform Treaty referendum 22 September 2008 Press conference — meeting with Russian Foreign Minister, Nil Mr. Sergey Lavrov 22 September 2008 Press conference — meeting with President of the Palestinian Nil National Authority H.E Mahmoud Abbas 24 September 2008 Launch of Ireland’s Hunger Task Force Report — UN $296 Buildings, New York (approx. \232) 06 October 2008 Launch — 4th Global Partners Forum on Children affected by Nil HIV and AIDS, hosted by Irish Aid and UNICEF 03 November 2008 Joint partnership for promoting decent work in developing Nil countries 25 November 2008 Press conference — meeting with President of the European Nil Parliament, Hans-Gert Po¨ ttering 27 November 2008 Press Conference, official Announcement of Terry Conroy as Nil the new Football Welfare Officer to aid young Irish footballers in Britain

Proposed Legislation. 204. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism his legislative priorities for 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3702/09]

Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Deputy Martin Cullen): I wish to refer the Deputy to the Government’s Legislation Programme for Da´il E´ ireann’s Spring Session 2009, as announced by the Government Chief Whip and as available through the search facility on the website of the Department of the Taoiseach (www.taoiseach.gov.ie).

Departmental Expenditure. 205. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by his Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if he will supply the information in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3704/09] 594 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Deputy Martin Cullen): The total number of press conferences and/or policy launches held by the Department in 2007 and 2008 was 3, the details of which are set out in tabular form.

Subject Matter — Press Conference/Launch Year Cost

Phase 1 of National Sport Campus 2007 Nil Allocations under Sports Capital Programme 2008 2008 Nil Arts & Culture Programme 2008 Nil

For the sake of completeness, a number of other policy and programme initiatives in the arts, sport and tourism sectors were announced during the two years in question by the Department, but were not the subject of formal press conferences or policy launches.

Sports Capital Programme. 206. Deputy Mary Upton asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if he will confirm if there will be a new round of the sports capital programme in 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3747/09]

207. Deputy Mary Upton asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if grants awarded under previous rounds of the sports capital programme will be granted in 2009; the number and total of the amounts that will be allocated; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3748/09]

Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Deputy Martin Cullen): I propose to take Questions Nos. 206 and 207 together. In the 2009 Estimates, \56m has been provided in my Department’s vote to cover payments to be made from the C1 subhead, out of which grants are paid for the provision of sports and recreation facilities. As I announced in the House last week no decision has been taken about the timing of future rounds of the Programme. Subject to compliance with the relevant conditions grants awarded in previous years will be paid.

Sports Funding. 208. Deputy Mary Upton asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if the moneys to be paid to the Horse and Greyhound Fund in 2009 will be entirely derived from betting tax revenues collected for that purpose or if supplementary moneys will need to be paid from the Exchequer; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3750/09]

Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Deputy Martin Cullen): The Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund was established under the Horse and Greyhound Racing Act, 2001 for the purpose of giving support to both the horse and greyhound racing industries. \69.719 million has been allocated to the Fund for 2009. In accordance with the Horse and Greyhound Racing Act 2001, 80% and 20% of the moneys paid into the Fund each year are distributed between Horse Racing Ireland (HRI) and Bord na gCon respectively. Since 2001, income from the Fund has been used by both bodies towards increasing prize money levels, meeting administration costs alongside a programme of capital investment, which has underpinned a growth in both sectors. 595 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Martin Cullen.]

Since the establishment of the Fund a major period of development of both industries has resulted. The funding has allowed Ireland to develop into a world centre of excellence for horseracing and greyhound racing. To date the Fund has not only helped towards providing some top class racing venues and facilities, but it has also underpinned significant employment in the industries. Horse breeding is a significant net contributor to the Irish economy and has an important role to play in generating employment, particularly in the tourism and agri-economy sectors, making it an important regional employer and a contributor to rural communities. The Irish greyhound industry is also regarded as one of the most vibrant and successful in the world. In 2004, the Government put in place regulations to increase the limit of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund from \254m to \550m to continue the Fund for a further four years to 2008. A review of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund is currently underway and is expected to be completed shortly. Any increase of the Fund limit will require the approval of the Govern- ment and the Oireachtas as the level of the Fund is increased by Regulations made by the Minister, with the consent of the Minister for Finance. Projections of revenue receipts through excise duties are a matter for my colleague, the Minister for Finance.

Proposed Legislation. 209. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his legislative priorities for 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3701/09]

Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): As the Deputy will be aware, Da´il E´ ireann will today consider Seanad amendments to the Charities Bill 2007. Once this stage is completed, the Bill will be enacted. Legislative proposals with regard to the powers and functions of U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta are currently being considered in the general context of the recommendations contained in the ‘Report of the Linguistic Study of the Use of Irish in the Gaeltacht’, and the work of the Cabinet Committee on the Irish language and the Gaeltacht.

Community Development. 210. Deputy Charlie O’Connor asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his efforts to promote volunteerism; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3740/09]

Minister of State at the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy John Curran): The Government has made significant progress in advancing measures in support of objectives on Volunteering and Active Citizenship. The Task Force on Active Citizenship recommended that a network of volunteer centres be funded across the country. My Department now provides annual funding of over \2.5m to twenty such centres. In 2008, these centres registered over 7,500 volunteers and over 950 volunteer-involving organisations. It should also be noted that 56% of registered volunteers had never volunteered before and 70% were aged 35 years and under.

596 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

My Department also provides core funding for Volunteering Centres Ireland which acts as a national organisation and plays a proactive central role in facilitating and supporting the development of the network of local volunteer centres. In addition, a range of other activities are being supported. In this context, a cross-border volunteering initiative, involving three groups — the GAA, Voluntary Arts Ireland and the Church of Ireland — was launched on 21st January. The rationale behind the project is that these organisations, which have a strong network of local volunteers across Ireland, can use this network for the benefit of the whole community, and especially marginalised and disadvantaged groups on both sides of the border. Other relevant activities supported by my Department include: The Young Social Innovators Initiative — this involves transition year students at secondary school level from all over Ireland identifying social needs and developing strategies to address them, requiring their engagement with local, community and statutory organisations. The key objective is to develop volunteering among young people and grow a cadre of volunteers for the future; For the past three years, my Department has supported the Dublin Institute of Technology (DIT) Community Learning Programme. This programme, promotes community based learning by integrating classroom theory with practical application in projects for community and voluntary bodies. Examples of projects include computing science students designing web pages for voluntary bodies, or food science students providing health and safety audits in community kitchens; Funding for Focus Ireland to support the placement of social science graduates, within the organisation, who wish to gain experience and to develop skills in working with people who are marginalised; and Support for Boardmatch, an organisation which aims to support the development of the voluntary and community sector in Ireland by strengthening boards of management and management committees of non-profit organisations.

Social Insurance. 211. Deputy Arthur Morgan asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the potential increase in revenue for the Exchequer if the PRSI ceiling was abolished. [3718/09]

Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Deputy Mary Hanafin): Current estimates indicate that the abolition of the PRSI ceiling would yield some \223 million additional contribution income in a full year.

Departmental Staff. 212. Deputy Ruairı´ Quinn asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the on-going education and training programmes in place for officials at her Department to educate them in the complex area of congenital disabilities such as spina bifida and hydrocephalus; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3640/09]

Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Deputy Mary Hanafin): My Department has an ongoing programme of disability awareness training for all key staff involved in service delivery in accordance with its Sectoral Plan under the Disability Act 2005. This programme was developed by the Staff Development Unit of my Department following consultations with service delivery areas and a number of external disability consultants and organisations. The Disability Awareness Training Programme does not focus on a specific disability but provides a general overview of the different types of disability, current equality and disability

597 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Mary Hanafin.] legislation, the difficulties such disabilities can present to individuals and best practice in customer service. The programme is reviewed on a regular basis to include up-to-date information regarding disability issues that may affect customer service.

Departmental Offices. 213. Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if she will make a statement on a matter (details supplied). [3644/09]

Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Deputy Mary Hanafin): The Department provides a front line service through a network of 60 local offices and 65 branch offices. Local offices are staffed by departmental staff and branch offices are run by private individuals who are employed under contract for service by the Department. Social welfare services in County Laois are provided by three Branch Offices which are located in the towns of Portlaoise, Portarlington and Rathdowney. There is also an inspectorate based in Portlaoise. At the end of December 2008 the Live Register in County Laois stood at 5,378 with approximately 500 of those from the Mountmellick area. The Mountmellick area is served by the Portarlington Office, which is seven miles away. While applicants for jobseeker payments are required to attend at the Portarlington office to make their initial claim, thereafter they are only required to attend the office on a monthly basis to sign-on and they receive payments at their local Post Office. The Department will continue to provide services at local level in an efficient and cost effective way. However, opening an office in a town the size of Mountmellick could not be justified and consequently there are no plans to open an office there.

Departmental Expenditure. 214. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by her Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if she will supply the information in tabular form; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [3714/09]

Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Deputy Mary Hanafin): The information requested by the Deputy is contained in the following tabular statement.

Table: Details of Press Conferences and Policy Launches, 2007 and 2008.

Date Event Cost

\ 23/01/2007 Briefing on National Development Plan Social Inclusion Strategy 562 21/02/2007 Government launches National Action Plan for Social Inclusion 2007-16: 2,865 Building an Inclusive Society 26/02/2007 Launch of Social Portrait of Older People in Ireland and the Citizen’s — Information Board’s Information Age — How to Access Senior Citizen Benefits 05/03/2007 Launch of National Pensions Action Week (jointly hosted with the — Pensions Board) 1 27/09/2007 Press briefing for introduction of new 2 rate Carer’s Allowance 828 17/10/2007 Government launch of Green Paper on Pensions 1,779 05/12/2007 Budget 2008 — Briefing —

598 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Date Event Cost

25/06/2008 Launch of information leaflet — Working with your spouse: how it 2,115 affects your social welfare contributions and entitlements 14/10/2008 Budget 2009 — Briefing — 20/11/2008 Launch of OECD Report — Sickness, Disability and Work: Breaking the 744 Barriers 28/11/2008 Launch of Families in Ireland Research Report 1,217

Social Welfare Benefits. 215. Deputy Ro´ isı´n Shortall asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs further to Parliamentary Question No. 125 of 29 January 2009, the reason payment was only sanctioned from 1 December when the applicant applied on 16 November 2008 and has been without payment since 30 October; and if she will ensure that the payment is backdated in full. [3774/09]

Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Deputy Mary Hanafin): The supplementary welfare allowance scheme, which includes mortgage interest supplement, is administered on behalf of the department by the community welfare division of the Health Service Executive. The Health Service Executive has confirmed that the person concerned was awarded a mortgage interest supplement from 1 December 2008 as it considered that her final paycheck of \2,916 received on 28 October was sufficient to meet her needs for the month of November 2008. It is open to the person concerned to appeal against this decision to the Executive’s desig- nated appeals officer.

Defence Forces Property. 216. Deputy Dinny McGinley asked the Minister for Defence the position regarding the rationalisation of military centres in County Donegal, with particular reference to Lifford Army barracks and Rockhill Army barracks; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3679/09]

217. Deputy Dinny McGinley asked the Minister for Defence the works, in the nature of refurbishments or extensions, that have been or will be carried out at Finner Army Camp, County Donegal to accommodate persons who are being transferred from Lifford and Rockhill; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3680/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): I propose to take Questions Nos. 216 and 217 together. The consolidation of the Defence Forces formations into a smaller number of locations is a key objective of the White Paper on Defence. The dispersal of personnel over an extended number of locations is a major impediment to essential collective training. It also imposes increased and unnecessary overheads on the Defence Forces in terms of barrack management, administration, maintenance and security. The consolidation process is designed to facilitate higher training standards, while also freeing up under-utilised resources and personnel for operational duties. The withdrawal of the British Army deployments coupled with reduced paramilitary activity following the Good Friday Agreement has removed the rationale for having seven barracks/posts along the border. These have now been consolidated into three posts in Dun- dalk, Cavan and Finner. Approximately 240 personnel from Lifford and Rockhill have now 599 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Willie O’Dea.] transferred to Finner Camp. Lifford and Rockhill were formally handed over to departmental officials by the military authorities on the 28th and 29th of January respectively. The facilities are now closed and secured and all equipment has also been relocated to Finner. The military authorities had conducted a detailed review of the requirements to enable the closure of Lifford and Rockhill Posts. The Military Authorities have advised that arrangements have been made to ensure that there are adequate facilities to accommodate staff from Lifford and Rockhill. The immediate works required to facilitate the transfer of personnel were the refurbishment/redecoration of a number of modern buildings together with the provision of some temporary locker facilities. In addition to these immediate requirements, some medium term capital works will be required in the future to provide more permanent arrangements for the transferring personnel. These are being advanced within the Department’s Capital Programme. My Department is engaged in an on-going capital programme designed to modernize and enhance the training, operational and accommodation facilities available to the Defence Forces both Permanent and Reserve. The programme focuses mainly on infrastructural projects comprising the construction of new buildings and the refurbishment of existing buildings. The provision of training facilities and equipment are reviewed as part of this programme. The current plan was put together in close consultation and cooperation with the Defence Forces General Staff. It provides an overall package that will serve the needs of the Defence Forces into the future. The closures will also advance the achievement of the vision of the Defence Forces set out in the White Paper. I would like to congratulate military management, departmental officials and the Defence Forces personnel in each of the barracks being closed on the professional manner in which they dealt with this issue and brought it to a very successful conclusion in a very tight timeframe.

Departmental Expenditure. 218. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Defence the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by his Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if he will supply the information in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3706/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The press conferences and policy launches held by my Department in 2007 and 2008 were as follows:

Date Event Cost

29th March 2007 Review of the 35th Infantry Group KFOR leaving for Nil peacekeeping duties in Kosovo 5th April 2007 Launch by Minister O’Dea of two reports regardingThe issues Nil affecting the recruitment and retention of women in the Defence Forces, and A review of the Implementation of the White Paper 18th April 2007 Review of the 36th Infantry Group leaving for peacekeeping Nil duties with UNIFIL 24th April 2007 Opening of the National Emergency Co-Ordination Centre \2,327.20 plus VAT 18th July 2007 Launch of the 2006 Annual Report Nil 21st September 2007 Review of the 37th Infantry Group KFOR leaving for Nil peacekeeping duties in Kosovo 26th September 2007 Swearing in Ceremony for the Military Judge Colonel Anthony \552.00 plus VAT McCourt

600 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Date Event Cost

27th March 2007 Review of the 38th Infantry Group KFOR leaving for Nil peacekeeping duties in Kosovo 14th April 2008 Joint launch by An Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, T.D and Minister \7,744.96 plus VAT O’Dea of the Public Information and Awareness Campaign on Emergency Planning 1st May 2008 Review of the 97th Infantry Battalion leaving for duty in Chad Nil 26th June 2008 Ceremony to Mark the 50th Anniversary of the Defence Force’s \800.00 plus VAT Involvement in Peacekeeping 25th September 2008 Review of the 39th Infantry Group KFOR leaving for Nil peacekeeping duties in Kosovo 17th December 2008 Minister O’Dea accepts the Second Report of the Independent \250.00 Monitoring Group

Defence Forces Strength. 219. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence the anticipated strength of the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps in 2009 and 2010; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3790/09]

Defence Forces Equipment. 220. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence further to Parliamentary Question No. 206 of 26 November 2008, if the proposed upgrading of military equipment in respect of the Defence Forces will proceed as planned; his proposals in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3791/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The acquisition of new equipment for the Defence Forces will continue to be a key focus for me as Minister for Defence. It is, of course, very important that my Department and the Defence Forces look to whatever efficiencies we can make taking into account the current difficult economic environment and the financial envelope available for the Department for military equipment over the coming years. It is, however, also very important that we invest in modern equipment for the Defence Forces and I will be working to ensure that this modernisation process is continued into the future. An example is the recent contract for the acquisition of Light Tactical Armoured Vehicles for the Defence Forces. A contract for the supply of twenty- seven (27) Light Tactical Armoured Vehicles to the Defence Forces was awarded to BAE Systems based in South Africa in December 2008. The contract followed from a detailed tender competition, which was initiated in May 2008 and which concluded in November 2008. The intention is that the LTAV will complement the Mowag Armoured Personnel Carriers (APCs) in the conduct of conventional and Peace Support Operations and will fill a gap that exists between soft-skinned vehicles and the Mowag APCs. 601 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Willie O’Dea.]

The contract for the supply of the 27 RG32M vehicles will run over a period of three years and has a value of \19.6m, inclusive of VAT. The cost of the programme will be covered over a number of years from the Defence budget taking into account the current economic conditions. Deliveries of the vehicles will be sixteen in 2009 and eleven in 2010. The acquisition of the Light Tactical Vehicles is a top priority for the Defence Forces given the extensive nature of their roles on overseas Peace Support Missions, the threat from impro- vised explosive devices and the potential for hostile fire in certain threat environments. Force protection remains a key issue in overseas peace support operations and it is very important that vehicles such as these are available to our personnel. On the Air Corps, the issue of the replacement of the Air Corps Cessna Fleet has been considered by my Department in consultation with the military authorities. The question of funding the replacement programme has to be considered in tandem with the overall equipment requirements of the Defence Forces generally and the funding available for this. The Cessna replacement programme is not a current priority and as such, there is no specific provision in this year’s Defence provision for this project. With regard to the Naval Service, the position remains as outlined in my reply to your question on 26 November 2008. I should re-iterate that any decision to proceed with the final award of contract to purchase the vessels will be subject to Government approval and agreement on funding, the full requirement for which will not be known until the tender competition has concluded.

Air Corps Strength. 221. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence the extent to which it is intended to increase the strength of the Air Corps; if it is intended to upgrade or replace equipment including air craft; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3792/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The White Paper on Defence of February 2000 set out a figure of 10,500 personnel for the Permanent Defence Force (Army 8,426, Naval Service 1,144, Air Corps 930) as the strength sufficient to meet all foreseeable military requirements for the period comprehended by the White Paper (i.e. up to 2010). This remains the position. In common with other areas of the public service a reduction of 3% in payroll costs has been applied to the Defence Forces. Recruitment was suspended in late 2008 pending a review of the best means by which to achieve this reduction. My officials and the military authorities are keeping the situation under close review on an ongoing basis. The review and any subsequent recruitment in 2009 will prioritise the operational requirements of the Defence Forces. As the Deputy may be aware, a very significant level of investment in new equipment for the Air Corps has taken place in recent years. The comprehensive investment programme included the delivery of eight Pilatus training aircraft at a total cost of \60m, the acquisition of two light utility EC 135 helicopters from Eurocopter S.A.S. at a cost of \12.8m, the acquisition of six utility AW 139 helicopters from AgustaWestland, Italy at a cost of \75m and a major mid life upgrade on the two CASA maritime patrol aircraft at a cost of \16.5m. The issue of the replacement of the Air Corps Cessna Fleet has been considered by my Department in consultation with the military authorities. The question of funding the replacement programme has to be considered in tandem with the overall equipment requirements of the Defence Forces generally and the funding available for this. The Cessna replacement programme is not a current priority and as such, there is no specific provision in this year’s Defence Estimates for this project.

602 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Question No. 222 answered with Question No. 106.

Questions Nos. 223 and 224 answered with Question No. 152.

Defence Forces Equipment. 225. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence if the Naval Service is adequately equipped and upgraded to meet expected requirements such as participation in international operations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3796/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The Naval Service provides the maritime element of the Defence Forces and has a general responsibility to meet contingent and actual maritime defence requirements. In the 2000 White Paper on Defence, the Government decided that the Naval Service would be based on an eight ship flotilla and committed to a modernisation and replacement strategy to maximise the operational capacity of those eight vessels consistent with the roles assigned to the Naval Service. All eight ships are involved in coastal and offshore patrolling and surveillance for the State in that part of the seas where State jurisdiction applies such as Internal Waters, Territorial Sea and the Irish Sector of the Exclusive Economic Zone. As a matter of standing policy, Naval Service assets are not deployed on overseas peace support operations and there are no plans to develop such capacity at this time. Naval Service Vessels are replaced when they have come to the end of their useful life, which is normally around 30 years. Three ships will fall due for replacement over the next 3 to 5 years — LE Emer, commissioned in 1978, LE Aoife, commissioned in 1979 and LE Aisling, commissioned in 1980. Following a detailed examination of the needs of the Naval Service within my Department a vessel replacement strategy for the Naval Service was put in place. The strategy combined with a continuous process of refurbishment will ensure that the operational capability of the Naval Service is maintained at a satisfactory level. A procurement process for the acquisition of replacement vessels is currently ongoing. The acquisition of these modern new vessels will ensure that the Naval Service will be fully equipped to carry out its day to day roles in enforcing the states sovereign rights over our waters and our fisheries and meeting Ireland’s obligations in the area of maritime safety and security and fisheries protection.

Question No. 226 answered with Question No. 152.

Overseas Missions. 227. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence the position regarding the development and participation in EU or UN sponsored RAPID response forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3798/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): Ireland participated in the Nordic Battlegroup (NBG), which was on standby from 1 January 2008 to 30 June 2008. The other members of the Nordic Battlegroup were Sweden, acting as Framework Nation, Finland, Norway and Estonia. The Defence Forces contribution to the NBG was an Explosive Ordnance Disposal and Impro- vised Explosive Device Disposal (EOD/IEDD) contingent with its own security detail. Battle- groups have been on standby in the European Union since 1 January 2007. To date no Battle- group has been deployed. With regard to Ireland’s participation in future Battlegroups, we are committed in principle to participation in the Nordic Battlegroup (NBG), which will be on stand-by for the first six (6) months of 2011. Other contributors to the Nordic Battlegroup are Sweden, acting as Frame- work Nation, Finland, Norway and Estonia.

603 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Willie O’Dea.]

Informal discussions have also taken place between staff in the Department of Defence and representatives from Austria, Germany, Czech Republic, Croatia and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) regarding Ireland’s possible participation in the proposed Austrian/German Battlegroup. This Battlegroup will be on stand-by for the second six (6) months of 2012. Government approval will be required before participation in either Battle- group is finalised.

Question No. 228 answered with Question No. 152.

Local Authority Staff. 229. Deputy Ruairı´ Quinn asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the ongoing education and training programmes in place for the county council staff and management to educate them in the complex area of congenital disabilities such as spina bifida and hydrocephalus; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3638/09]

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley): Under section 159 of the Local Government Act 2001, each County and City Manager is responsible for staffing and organisational arrangements necessary for carrying out the functions of the local authorities for which he or she is responsible. Funding has been provided under the National Disability Strategy for disability awareness training in all local authorities.

230. Deputy Paul Kehoe asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the number of persons working on a temporary or part-time basis who have been let go by local authorities since June 2007 to date in 2009; if he will provide a list of the local authorities and their respective numbers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3652/09]

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley): The information requested in the question is not available in my Department.

Water and Sewerage Schemes. 231. Deputy Christy O’Sullivan asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the status of the Castletownbere sewage scheme, County Cork; the money which has been spent to date on studies and design briefs; and the amount allocated in 2009 for the project. [3674/09]

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley): The Castletownbere Sewerage Scheme is included for funding under the Rural Towns and Villages Initiative of my Department’s Water Services Investment Programme 2007-2009 at an estimated cost of \5.2 million. My Department is awaiting submission of Cork County Council’s Preliminary Report for the scheme and has not received any claim for recoupment of related expenditure from the Council.

232. Deputy Beverley Flynn asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the progress of Belmullet, Foxford and Charlestown-Bellaghy sewerage schemes in County Mayo. [3686/09]

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley): The combined Belmullet/Foxford and Charlestown/Bellaghy Sewerage Schemes are included for funding in my Department’s Water Services Investment Programme 2007-2009.

604 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

My Department is awaiting Contract Documents for the collection networks and a revised brief for the appointment of consultants to prepare Tender Documents for the wastewater treatment plants from Mayo County Council.

Election Management System. 233. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the cost of storing the electronic voting machines in 2007 and 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3697/09]

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley): Based on figures received in my Department from Returning Officers, the total annual costs for storage of the electronic voting equipment (including the cost of insurance, service charges, rates and heating) for 2007 and 2008 were some \489,000 and \204,000 respectively. In 2007, over 60% of the electronic voting machines (some 4,762 in total) were moved to a central storage facility located at Gormanston Army Camp. Costs incurred in respect of the movement and storage of this equipment were some \328,000.

Departmental Expenditure. 234. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by his Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if he will supply the information in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3709/09]

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley): My Department held 17 press conferences and policy launches in 2007 and 14 in 2008. Generally the Government Press Centre in Government Buildings and the conference room in my own Department are availed of for such launches. The Government Press Centre is made available to Government Departments at no cost. In the case of launches held in my own Department some small incidental expenditure on refresh- ments and ancillary supports may be incurred. For logistical reasons, launches are held on occasion off-site. Information in relation to all launches in 2007 and 2008 is provided as follows:

2007

Date Event Cost

January 2007 Publication of Ireland’s Progress Towards Sustainability, No cost Government Press Centre January 2007 Launch of Notice Nature campaign, Custom House \888 February 2007 Launch of Housing Policy document, Delivering Homes, Building No cost Communities, Civic Offices, Ballymun February 2007 Press Conference on Fire Services Capital Programme, Cork No cost March 2007 Press Conference on Rural Water Programme 2007, Castlebar No cost March 2007 Press Conference on Local Improvement Scheme Funding, Cork No cost April 2007 Launch of National Climate Change Strategy, Government No cost Buildings June 2007 M3 Tara Press Briefing, Custom House No cost July 2007 Announcement of Litter Fine Increase, Custom House No cost July 2007 Launch of National Smoke Alarm Campaign, Ennis Fire Station No cost August 2007 Launch of Heritage Week, Farmleigh No cost August 2007 Launch of EPA Climate Change Report, Custom House No cost

605 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy John Gormley.] Date Event Cost

September 2007 Launch of Water Services Investment Programme, Custom House No cost September 2007 Launch of Design Standards for New Apartments, Dublin No cost Docklands Development Authority Offices October 2007 Launch of Tyre Regulations/Recycling Initiative No cost November 2007 Launch of Climate Change Awareness Campaign, Government No cost Buildings December 2007 Budget Press Conference, Government Buildings No cost

2008

Date Event Cost

January 2008 Launch of Department’s Statement of Strategy 2008-2010 and No cost new corporate identity February 2008 Launch of Sustainable Density Planning Guidelines, Dublin No cost Docklands Development Authority Offices February 2008 Launch of Rural Water Programme, Claregalway \2,105 March 2008 Launch of Conservation Grants Scheme, Botanic Gardens, Dublin No cost April 2008 Launch of Green Paper on Local Government, Government Costs for Davenport Buildings and Davenport Hotel, Dublin Hotel event: \2,111 May 2008 Launch of Carbon Calculator, St. Stephen’s Green No cost May 2008 Launch of report on Status of EU Protected Habitats, Bull Island No cost June 2008 Launch of Car Labelling System, Custom House \145 June 2008 Launch of library strategy document, Branching Out Future No cost Directions, Pearse Street Library July 2008 Launch of Housing Miscellaneous Provisions Bill, Government No cost Press Centre August 2008 Launch of Homeless Strategy, Custom House No cost August 2008 Launch of Consultation Paper on Noise Regulation, Custom No cost House October 2008 Press Conference on Carbon Budget, Government Buildings No cost October 2008 Press Conference on Home Choice Loan Post Budget, No cost Government Buildings

Motor Taxation. 235. Deputy Sea´n Sherlock asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local

Government the reason a person with a diesel car which has fewer CO2 emissions than some petrol models is paying more in respect of car tax; and if he will clarify the reason that in some instances the tax on a diesel car registered in 2006 is three times that of the same model registered in 2008. [3723/09]

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley): Arising from the enactment of the Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) Act 2008, a motor tax system based on CO2 emissions was introduced for new cars from 1 July 2008. From that date, there are two separate motor tax systems for cars. Cars in the motor tax system based on engine size (cc) continue to be taxed on that basis.

New cars registered from 1 July 2008, onwards are taxed based on their CO2 emissions level.

The new motor tax system complemented the new CO2 based vehicle registration tax (VRT) system which also applied from July 2008 to the purchase of a new car and which is adminis- 606 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

tered by the Revenue Commissioners. Linking the VRT and motor tax rates to CO2 emissions levels means that those purchasing cleaner, low emissions cars will pay less while those opting to purchase higher emitting vehicles will pay more.

The question of applying the new CO2 based motor tax system to all cars was subject to detailed debate on the Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) Act 2008. As was indicated in the debate, the rates under the CO2 system were determined on a revenue neutral basis so as not to undermine the monies available to the Local Government Fund. In addition, it was pointed out that any retrospection would not be practicable, as the CO2 data for the car fleet had not been authenticated for business purposes. The cost of any retrospection, were it possible, could be substantial, depending on how it applied, and could have direct implications for the revenue base of Local Government.

Register of Electors. 236. Deputy Joanna Tuffy asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if he will request his franchise department to produce a more user-friendly RFA2 form to encourage people to register in advance of the local and European elections; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3728/09]

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley): The RFA2 application form is used by persons wishing to be included in the supplement to the Register of Electors. The detailed requirements regarding the inclusion of persons in the supplement are set out in section 15 of, and Part 2 of the Second Schedule to, the Electoral Act 1992. The form allows applicants to provide the information required by these statutory provisions.

Social and Affordable Housing. 237. Deputy Charlie O’Connor asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the supports available to those wishing to avail of affordable housing; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3741/09]

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy Michael Finneran): The various affordable housing schemes are designed to assist lower income households who find themselves priced out of the market. The schemes allow individuals to purchase a property at a significantly lower cost than market value. Generally speaking, the schemes are for the benefit of first time buyers. Additionally, a mortgage subsidy or, as appropriate, a rental subsidy under the Shared Ownership Scheme, is available to further assist households with income below \28,000 in the previous tax year. This subsidy is intended to reduce the monthly outgoings of the purchaser. Alternatively, a mortgage allowance of \11,450 spread over 5 years is available to assist tenants or tenant purchasers of local authority houses and tenants of dwellings provided by approved voluntary housing bodies under the Capital Loan and Subsidy scheme, who return their accommodation to the body, thus making it available for re-letting, to become owner-occupiers of other dwellings, including affordable housing. In addition to the various affordable housing initiatives, there is also a Low Cost Sites Scheme, which effectively allows housing authorities to determine an appropriate sale price of sites, whether developed or undeveloped, to eligible applicants in accordance with their circumstances.

607 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Michael Finneran.]

As signalled by the Minister for Finance in Budget 2009, a new single streamlined Govern- ment Equity Scheme is to be introduced in relation to affordable housing. These new arrangements will introduce greater equity into the system and provide a basis for achieving greater consistency across the schemes and across different areas of the country. The greater protection of the State’s investment will also mean that funds can be recycled into assisting further households with affordable housing.

Litter Pollution. 238. Deputy Charlie O’Connor asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if he will provide additional supports to South Dublin County Council to allow further action to be taken in respect of the problem of graffiti in Tallaght and the wider Dublin South-West constituency; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3742/09]

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy John Gormley): Management and enforcement responses to litter problems, including defacement by graffiti, are a primary responsibility of each local authority to be met from their own resources. My Department also provides anti-litter and anti-graffiti awareness-raising grants to local authorities to encourage long-term behavioural change in this regard. It is a matter for each local authority, in this case South Dublin County Council, to ensure that its functional area is, as far as practicable, kept free of litter including graffiti. I am satisfied that local authorities have adequate powers under the Litter Pollution Acts 1997 to 2003 to tackle the problem of graffiti and adequate resources to discharge their responsibilities. Sections 19 and 20 of the 1997 Act empower local authorities to take action in relation to incidents of graffiti and, as necessary, to remove or otherwise remedy the defacement. I am fully aware of the major blight on communities caused by graffiti, and I am committed to tackling graffiti vandalism. To this end, following the evaluation of a pilot anti-graffiti programme carried out by my Department, the Department of Justice, Equality & Law Reform and the Department of Community, Rural & Gaeltacht Affairs during 2006 and 2007, a new Community Graffiti Reduction Programme was launched in April 2008, which is being administered by Pobal on behalf of the Departments involved. Up to \3 million was made available in 2008 to fund suitable projects under this programme, including projects being carried out in Tallaght and the wider Dublin South West constituency. The key aims of this programme are to support an immediate reduction in the extent and impact of graffiti within participating communities and to develop local mechanisms to support the long term reduction of incidences of graffiti. Full details of the programme are available at www.pobal.ie I am confident that these measures, with their emphasis on both graffiti removal and on long term initiatives to combat the problem of graffiti vandalism, will enable the local authorities and communities to work together to develop coherent long term strategies to tackle the problem.

Regional Fisheries Boards. 239. Deputy Mary Upton asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if sport angling will receive a right of representation on the national inland fisheries board which is being established to replace the central and regional fisheries boards; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3751/09]

Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Sea´n Power): As part of the overall rationalisation of State agencies that the Minister for Finance announced in Budget 2009, a new national inland fisheries body will be established

608 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers which will replace the existing Central and regional fisheries boards. A restructuring implementation group has been established and is developing the key features and structures of the new model. Primary legislation will be required for this implementation. The composition of the board of the new body is yet to be determined. I am of the view that, generally, boards of State agencies should be small and contain a strong focus relevant to the business of the body in question and to the general issue of good corporate management.

Energy Savings Scheme. 240. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources when applications will be accepted in respect of the new national scheme for house insulation; when conditions are attached to the scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3695/09]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): Sus- tainable Energy Ireland is finalising the detailed preparation for the launch of the Home Energy Savings Scheme which I intend to announce shortly. The improvement of energy efficiency in the building stock is one of the most cost effective ways of reducing emissions and energy bills and is a key Government priority as reflected in the significant funding provided in Budget 2009. Energy efficiency measures to tackle deficienc- ies in households will also support employment in the construction sector and the development of an energy services industry. The pilot phase of the Scheme in 2008 has demonstrated that there is considerable demand for a support scheme for energy efficiency measures, not only from householders, but also among building energy rating assessors, product manufacturers, installers and other market actors.

Departmental Expenditure. 241. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by his Depart- ment in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if he will supply the information in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3705/09]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): In the time available, it has not been possible to identify and assemble the information requested in respect of my Department. My Department is in the process of identifying and assembling the information and I will revert to the Deputy as soon as possible.

Central Fisheries Board. 242. Deputy Michael Ring asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if a hardship fund will be set up in respect of a category of people (details supplied). [3731/09]

Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Sea´n Power): In compliance with European Council Regulation No.1100/2007 establishing measures for the recovery of the stock of European eel, a draft Eel Management Plan was submitted to the Commission for approval. Given the critical status of the eel stock, as demonstrated in the assessment contained in the Eel Management Plan, a number of management measures have been identified as necessary to reach the targets set in the regulation

609 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Sea´n Power.] including closure of the commercial and recreational fishery from 2009. Catches have been declining over recent years because of the critical status of stocks. I have no funds at my disposal for a hardship fund for commercial eel fishermen. The Central Fisheries Board is, however, actively investigating alternative opportunities to assist eel fishermen in diversification.

Farm Waste Management. 243. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when a person (details supplied) in County Mayo will receive payment under the farm waste management scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3647/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): The person concerned is an applicant under the Farm Waste Management Scheme. A decision will be made in respect of the application as soon as possible.

244. Deputy Paul Kehoe asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the number of applications received by his Department in each county in respect of the farm waste management scheme. [3648/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): Some 48,580 applications were received from farmers under the revised Farm Waste Management Scheme introduced by my Department in March 2006. Some 17,397 payment claims remain to be brought to final payment stage in 2009, including those which completed the inspection process towards the end of 2008. I regret that it is not possible at this stage to provide a breakdown of these figures on a county basis.

Grant Payments. 245. Deputy Edward O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when payment of the EU single farm payment will issue to a person (details supplied) in County Cork. [3663/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): An application under the Single Payment Scheme was received from the person named on the 13th May 2008. This application was selected for and was the subject of a ground eligibility and cross compliance inspection. The result of this inspection was clear. However, a cross-report was received in the Single Payment Unit relating to irregularities uncovered as part of an investigation concerning bovine identification and registration. Compliance with bovine identification and registration is one of the Statutory Management Requirements of the cross compliance regime. Applicants for the Single Payment Scheme are required to respect the requirements relating to the identification and registration of bovine animals. The outcome of the investigation is currently being examined and payment in this case is held pending the outcome of this examination.

Farm Waste Management. 246. Deputy Pat Breen asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when payment will issue to a person (details supplied) in County Clare; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3682/09]

610 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Water and Sewerage Schemes. 247. Deputy Beverley Flynn asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the situation regarding the application by Mayo County Council for a foreshore licence in order to facilitate the proposed Belmullet sewerage scheme, County Mayo. [3685/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): My Department is processing two foreshore applications in respect of the proposed Belmullet Sewerage Scheme. The first application was received from Mayo County Council on 23 June 2008 for a foreshore licence to facilitate the discharge of treated effluent from a proposed wastewater treatment scheme at Belmullet. The application was circulated to my Department’s consultees in the normal way, and consideration of the application is by my Department’s Engineering Division and the Marine Licence Vetting Committee is ongoing. The second application, which is in respect of site investigation works in connection with the scheme, was received by my Depart- ment on 28 July 2008 and was also circulated to my Department’s consultees. Responses from a number of consultees are still awaited, and every effort is being made to expedite receipt of the necessary responses. Issues raised to date by consultees who have responded were referred to the Council for comment and the Council’s response to the issues raised has been referred to the relevant consultees. Every effort is being made by my Department to expedite consideration of the applications.

Farm Waste Management. 248. Deputy Noel J. Coonan asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the number of applications made in north Tipperary under the farm waste management scheme; the breakdown of the status of the applications; the amount paid to date; the number of applications pending; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3689/09]

249. Deputy Noel J. Coonan asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the timeframe for his Department to issue payments to all qualified applicants who have applied for the waste management scheme in north Tipperary; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3690/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): I propose to take Questions Nos. 248 and 249 together. The information requested by the Deputy will be forwarded to him as soon as possible.

Food Labelling. 250. Deputy Pat Breen asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food his views in the event of another serious dioxide scare in the pork or beef industry; if he has plans to introduce a bar code on products which would identify the farm where the product originated; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3699/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): Following the recall of pork products initiated on 6 December 2008, my initial objective was to ensure that all the

611 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Brendan Smith.] necessary measures were rapidly put in place to enable the restoration of supplies of Irish pork and bacon products in which the consumer can have full confidence. I have since established a Review Group to be chaired by Professor Patrick Wall to examine the dioxin contamination incident and to make recommendations on measures needed to deal with such incidents in the future. Traceability will be an essential element of this review. In the meantime my Department in conjunction with industry is examining the potential to improve pork traceability.

Departmental Expenditure. 251. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by his Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if he will supply the information in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3703/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): The following are the details of press conferences and policy launches held by the Department in 2007 and 2008.

Date Launch/Press Conference Cost \

24 Jan ’07 Launch of National Development Plan 1,584.77 5 Mar ’07 National Tree Week Launch 431.30 28 Mar ’07 Bord Bia Horticulture Report 508.01 18 April ’07 Launch of Dairy Investment Fund 782.96 26 Apr ’07 Fruit and Veg. Growers Seminar 639.18 16 May ’07 Launch of Sheepmeat Package 1,188.09 25 June ’07 Launch of Farm Improvement Scheme 257.08 26 July ’07 National Dairy Forum 4,920.80 8 Aug ’07 Launch of REPS 4 1,154.86 9 Nov ’07 North South Ministerial Conference 4,269.94 20 Nov ’07 FIRM’s Projects Awards 9,706.99 23 Nov ’07 Launch of Forestry Training and Education Initiative 414.94 12 Dec ’07 National Forestry Report 1,291.62 2 Feb ‘08 National Tree Week Launch 692.68 15 Feb ‘08 Launch of Forestry Environment Protection Scheme 340.50 20 Feb ‘08 Launch of 2008 Decommissioning of the Whitefish Fleet Scheme 1,155.90 20 Feb ‘08 Launch of the Farm Animal Welfare Advisory Council Report 951.04 30 Apr ‘08 Launch of the Organic Action Plan 1,691.75 30 June ‘08 Launch of three agri publications: Annual Review & Outlook; 2nd 1,085.35 Progress Report on AgriVision 2015 Action Plan; Net Contribution of the Agri-Food Sector to the Inflow of Funds into Ireland 11 July ‘08 Year of the Potato Launch 1,260 17 Sept ‘08 Launch of Animal Welfare Guidelines 1,569.39

Grant Payments. 252. Deputy Billy Timmins asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the position in relation to a person (details supplied) in County Wicklow who has not been awarded their single farm payment; if payment will be made; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3722/09] 612 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): The closing date for the receipt of applications under the 2008 Single Payment Scheme was 15 May 2008, with a further twenty-five calendar day period up to 9 June, for the acceptance of late applications, subject to a rising scale of penalties for such applications. Applications received on or after 10 June were subject to a 100% late penalty on all Single Payments for 2008. An application under the 2008 Single Payment Scheme was received from the person named on 10 June 2008 and was, therefore, ineligible under the Scheme. However, following a review of this case, the late penalty has been waived. Payment will issue shortly to the person named.

253. Deputy Michael Ring asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when a person (details supplied) in County Mayo will be awarded on remaining animals. [3724/09]

254. Deputy Michael Ring asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will provide a statement listing the exact animals which were awarded on under a scheme for a person (details supplied) in County Mayo. [3725/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): I propose to take Questions Nos. 253 and 254 together. The person named did reply to queries from my Department concerning the remaining animals but the information he supplied did not resolve the problem. An official from my Department has now been in touch with him again and he is to forward more material. As soon as this additional material is received, the case will be processed further. My Department will forward a list of the paid animals to the Deputy.

Bovine Disease Controls. 255. Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the number of herd numbers in use in each county on 31 December 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3734/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): The number of herds recorded on 31 December 2008 per county is set out in the table:

Number

Carlow 1,354 Cavan 4,970 Clare 6,264 Cork 12,293 Donegal 5,671 Dublin 413 Galway 12,059 Kerry 7,038 Kildare 1,892 Kilkenny 3,232 Laois 2,929 Leitrim 3,160 Limerick 5,601 Longford 2,466 Louth 1,182 Mayo 9,998

613 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Brendan Smith.] Number

Meath 3,623 Monaghan 4,263 Offaly 3,140 Roscommon 5,612 Sligo 3,833 Tipperary 6,868 Waterford 2,347 Westmeath 3,080 Wexford 3,146 Wicklow 1,660

Total 118,094

Afforestation Programme. 256. Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the impact which tree felling is having on phosphate levels in rivers here; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3738/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): The release of phosphate to receiving waters following tree felling is only associated with clearfelling on peat soils. It is not associated with thinning and is not associated with mineral soils. (Clearfelling occurs at the end of the forest cycle, usually at age 30 years and greater). Significant increases have been recorded in drains and in small, first order, streams rather than in rivers. The magnitude of the release depends on factors such as the size of the area that is clearfelled in relation to the total catchment, the rainfall patterns in the period following clearfelling, the presence or not of vegetated buffer zones between the clearfell and aquatic zones, the drainage network and, in particular, whether or not the drainage network connects directly to the aquatic zone and the proximity of the felling to the receiving waters. The above risks are associated with plantations established before 1990 as the Forestry and Fisheries Guidelines, introduced in 1990 and amended in 2000, require the installation of vegetated buffer zones in new plantations and that new drains would not connect directly with aquatic zones.

Grant Payments. 257. Deputy Paul Kehoe asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the reason a person (details supplied) has been refused single farm payment; the reason they have been refused in view of the fact that this payment was received in the past. [3745/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): The Department is currently examining the usage of a commonage parcel that was included on the Single Payment application of the person named. This examination is necessary because the claims submitted by a number of applicants on this commonage under the Single Payment Scheme exceed the area of the commonage that is eligible for payment. The Department contacted all the claimants concerned, requesting documentary evidence of their right to claim the commonage and replies with evidence were received from all except the person named. The Department contacted a solicitor acting on behalf of the person named 614 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers on 5 December 2008 requesting further evidence of his entitlement to claim on the commonage. The reply, which was received by my Department on 29 January 2009, is under review. The applicant will be informed of the outcome of this review when it is completed.

Rural Environment Protection Scheme. 258. Deputy Ulick Burke asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the proposed penalty following an EU REP scheme audit; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3758/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): The European Court of Auditors and the European Commission both carried out audits on REPS in early 2008. The conclusions of the audit by the Court have been published but I am still awaiting the outcome of the audit by the Commission.

259. Deputy Ulick Burke asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the number of REP scheme four applications that have been processed in respect of persons in County Galway; the number that have been granted; the number that have been rejected; the number that have been penalised; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3759/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): The first payments for 2008 REPS 4 applications issued last week to those whose applications required no correction following the necessary administrative checks. Of the 1,281 REPS 4 applications that have been processed in the Galway local offices up to the end of 2008, 96 required no correction following the necessary administrative checks and these have been approved for payment. Plans where queries have arisen during the administrative checks are currently under examination. As of now, no penalties have been imposed and no applications have been rejected.

260. Deputy John Deasy asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the reason for the delay in payment of REP scheme four and a farm building grant to a person (details supplied) in County Waterford; and when they will issue. [3761/09]

Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Deputy Brendan Smith): REPS 4 is a measure under the current Rural Development Programme 2007-13 and is subject to EU Regulations which require detailed administrative checks on all applications to be completed before the first payments issue. The first payments for 2008 REPS 4 applications issued last week to those whose applications required no correction following the administrative checks. Further payments will continue to be made as applications are cleared. In the case of the person named, queries have arisen during the administrative checks on his plan and it is currently under examination. The person concerned is also an applicant under the Farm Waste Management Scheme. A decision will be made in respect of the application concerned as soon as possible.

261. Deputy John Deasy asked the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the reason for the delay in payment of REP scheme four to a person (details supplied) in County Water- ford; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3762/09]

615 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Brendan Smith.] whose applications require no correction following the administrative checks. Further payments will continue to be made as applications are cleared. In the case of the person named, queries have arisen during the administrative checks on his plan and it is currently under examination.

Special Educational Needs. 262. Deputy Ruairı´ Quinn asked the Minister for Education and Science the on-going education and training programmes in place for teachers to educate them in the complex area of congenital disabilities such as spina bifida and hydrocephalus; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3639/09]

Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): The Special Education Support Service provides continuing professional development for teachers in the education of all pupils with special educational needs. Post-graduate programmes of continuing professional development, funded by the Department of Education and Science in the colleges and universities also provide teachers with access to continuing professional development in the education of pupils with special educational needs. Programmes of continuing professional development address the implications for learning and teaching arising from pupils’ assessed special educational needs. Special educational needs arising from a medical condition such as spina bifida and hydrocephalus are addressed within these models of continuing professional development. Based on pupils’ needs, teachers are provided with knowledge and skills to assist them in providing enriched educational opportunities for pupils and a focus is maintained on developing teachers’ understanding of the holistic needs of each pupil.

School Staffing. 263. Deputy Willie Penrose asked the Minister for Education and Science when applications for resource hours in respect of pupils at a school (details supplied) in County Westmeath will be dealt with; if steps will be taken to expedite same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3656/09]

Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): As the Deputy will be aware, the National Council for Special Education (NCSE) is responsible, through its network of local Special Educational Needs Organisers (SENOs), for allocating resource teachers and special needs assistants to schools to support children with special needs. The NCSE operates within my Department’s criteria in allocating such support. I have arranged for the details supplied by the Deputy to be forwarded to the NCSE for their attention and direct reply. All schools have the names and contact details of their local SENO. Parents may also contact their local SENO directly to discuss their child’s special educational needs, using the contact details available on www.ncse.ie.

Schools Building Projects. 264. Deputy Brian Hayes asked the Minister for Education and Science the efforts he has made to provide a permanent premises and location for a school (details supplied) in Dublin 9; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3671/09]

Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): My Department requested the OPW to locate a site for the school referred to by the Deputy. The OPW reported back to my

616 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Department in February 2008 indicating only one proposal was received in the Glasnevin area which was considered unsuitable. The further progression of the acquisition of a site will be considered in the context of the capital budget available to the Department for school buildings generally. In light of the many competing demands on the capital budget, it is not possible to give an indicative timeframe for the acquisition of the school site at this time.

School Accommodation. 265. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Education and Science the schools and the number of classroom units within each school in the Mayo constituency area that are availing of accommodation under the temporary accommodation scheme; the average rental cost of each unit per annum in tabular from; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3694/09]

Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): Details of the schools in Co. Mayo renting temporary accommodation are given in the attached tabular statement. The average annual rental cost per unit in 2007 was \8127. This information was compiled following a survey of schools regarding their use of temporary accommodation. The Deputy will be aware that demand for additional accommodation in schools has risen significantly over the last number of years, with the appointment of 6,000 extra teachers in the primary sector alone since 2002. It will continue to be necessary for prefabricated accommodation to be provided because competing priorities mean that it will not always be possible to have a permanent accommodation solution in place in a short time-frame. My Department will continue to provide funding for such prefabricated accommodation and the decision on whether to rent or purchase will depend on the likely length of time it will be required. In all cases, the approach will be to ensure best value for money.

Temporary Accommodation

Roll No. Name Address Type Start Date

04796R Brackloon NS Brackloon, Westport, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/05 04796R Brackloon NS Brackloon, Westport, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/01 07054L Scoil Naomh Brı´d Culleens, Killalla Rd, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 01/08/03 07054L Scoil Naomh Brı´d Culleens, Killalla Rd, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 01/10/04 07054L Scoil Naomh Brı´d Culleens, Killalla Rd, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 01/08/05 07054L Scoil Naomh Brı´d Culleens, Killalla Rd, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 01/03/07 11725I Behymore NS Behymore NS, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/00 11725I Behymore NS Behymore NS, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 30/08/07 11725I Behymore NS Behymore NS, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 30/08/07 11725I Behymore NS Behymore NS, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 30/08/07 12206M SN Padraig Corrabheagain, Knockmore, Ballina, Pre-fab 01/08/07 Mayo 12568A Inver NS Inver, Bar na Tra, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 03/09/07 12938H Tavneena NS Charlestown, Mayo Pre-fab 01/04/01 13152U St Josephs NS Derrywalsh, Castlebar, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/01 13152U St Josephs NS Derrywalsh, Castlebar, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/01 13389F St Josephs NS Midfield, Swinford, Mayo Pre-fab 01/10/99 13858K Templemary NS Carbed, Killala, Mayo Pre-fab 04/08/05 13781P St. John’s NS Breaffy, Castlebar, Mayo Pre-fab 01/01/01

617 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

[Deputy Batt O’Keeffe.] Roll No. Name Address Type Start Date

13781P St. John’s NS Breaffy, Castlebar, Mayo Pre-fab 01/01/01 13945J Eskeragh NS Eskeragh, Bellalorick, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/07 14400S Richmond NS Crossmolina, Mayo Pre-fab 03/10/05 15014S Corclough NS Corclough West, Belmullet, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/06 15113U St James’ NS Barnacogue, Swinford, Mayo Pre-fab 15/09/03 15555G Breaffy NS Breaffy, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/07 15866A Carrakennedy NS Liscarney, Westport, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/00 15866A Carrakennedy NS Liscarney, Westport, Mayo Pre-fab 01/03/01 16021U Lisaniska NS Lisaniska, Foxford, Mayo Pre-fab 17/12/02 16021U Lisaniska NS Lisaniska, Foxford, Mayo Pre-fab 30/08/05 16122D Scoil Mhuire Knock, Claremorris, Mayo Pre-fab 20/07/00 16170O Cloghans NS Cloghans, Knockmore, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/01 16283E Pullathomas NS Pullathomas, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 01/01/01 16832L St Augustine’s NS Murrisk, Westport, Mayo Pre-fab 01/10/06 16904K Lankill NS Lankill, Westport, Mayo Pre-fab 01/10/07 16984L St Joseph’s NS Shrule, Mayo Pre-fab 16/01/06 17119T Sn Ball Alainn Balla, Castlebar, Mayo Pre-fab 01/10/07 17119T Sn Ball Alainn Balla, Castlebar, Mayo Pre-fab — 17209U Caoneal NS Caoneal, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 03/09/07 18922W Cloonliffen NS Ballinrobe, Mayo Pre-fab 01/11/03 19375B St Brid’s Spec NS Pavilion Road, Castlebar, Mayo Pre-fab 06/04/07 19375B St Brid’s Spec NS Pavilion Road, Castlebar, Mayo Pre-fab — 19375B St Brid’s Spec NS Pavilion Road, Castlebar, Mayo Pre-fab — 19402B Ballyvary Central NS Ballyvary, Castlebar, Mayo Pre-fab 04/10/07 19402B Ballyvary Central NS Ballyvary, Castlebar, Mayo Pre-fab 04/10/07 19451O Holy Family NS Newport, Mayo Pre-fab 11/09/06 19773N St Nicholas School Convent Hill, Ballina, Mayo Pre-fab 06/08/99 19903A Kiltimagh Central, (St Kiltimagh, Mayo Pre-fab 22/11/02 Aidan’s NS) 19972T GS Uileog de Burca Lochan na mBan, Clar Chlainne, Pre-fab 01/09/96 Mhuiris, Mayo 19972T GS Uileog de Burca Lochan na mBan, Clar Chlainne, Pre-fab 10/01/96 Mhuiris, Mayo 19972T GS Uileog de Burca Lochan na mBan, Clar Chlainne, Pre-fab 01/09/06 Mhuiris, Mayo 19972T GS Uileog de Burca Lochan na mBan, Clar Chlainne, Pre-fab 01/09/07 Mhuiris, Mayo 19972T GS Uileog de Burca Lochan na mBan, Clar Chlainne, Pre-fab 28/09/00 Mhuiris, Mayo 19972T GS Uileog de Burca Lochan na mBan, Clar Chlainne, Pre-fab 01/10/07 Mhuiris, Mayo 19972T GS Uileog de Burca Lochan na mBan, Clar Chlainne, Pre-fab 01/10/07 Mhuiris, Mayo 20084U Scoil na gCeithre Maol Beal an Atha, Mayo Pre-fab 06/09/99 20084U Scoil na gCeithre Maol Beal an Atha, Mayo Pre-fab — 20084U Scoil na gCeithre Maol Beal an Atha, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/03 20084U Scoil na gCeithre Maol Beal an Atha, Mayo Pre-fab 02/09/03 20084U Scoil na gCeithre Maol Beal an Atha, Mayo Pre-fab 02/09/03 20084U Scoil na gCeithre Maol Beal an Atha, Mayo Pre-fab 13/08/04

618 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Roll No. Name Address Type Start Date

20089H St Josephs NS Ballinrobe, Mayo Pre-fab 03/09/07 20089H St Josephs NS Ballinrobe, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/04 20089H St Josephs NS Ballinrobe, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/06 20089H St Josephs NS Ballinrobe, Mayo Pre-fab 01/09/06 20142I Scoil Iosa Abbeyquarter, Ballyhaunis, Mayo Pre-fab 01/11/01 20142I Scoil Iosa Abbeyquarter, Ballyhaunis, Mayo Pre-fab 01/11/01 64570E Our Lady’s Sec School Belmullet, Mayo Pre-fab 11/01/06 64570E Our Lady’s Sec School Belmullet, Mayo Pre-fab 11/01/06 64570E Our Lady’s Sec School Belmullet, Mayo Pre-fab 11/01/06 64570E Our Lady’s Sec School Belmullet, Mayo Pre-fab 11/01/06

Proposed Legislation. 266. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Education and Science his legislative priorities for 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3700/09]

Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): The Department’s legislative priorities are as outlined the Government Legislation Programme, which was published by the Chief Whip’s Office prior to the commencement of the Spring parliamentary session. The Department of Education & Science has 3 Bills listed in Section C of the programme, namely the George Mitchell Scholarship Fund Act 1998 (Amendment) Bill 2009, the Education (Patronage) Bill 2009 and the Qualifications (Education and Training) Bill 2009. The Heads of Bill are at various stages of preparation in each case, and Government approval has yet to be sought for any draft Heads. The George Mitchell Scholarship Fund Bill 2009 will amend the existing legislation to facilitate an increase of \20m in Ireland’s contribution to the George Mitchell Scholarship Fund. The purpose of the Education (Patronage) Bill is to make the necessary legislative amendments (to the VEC Acts 1930-2006 and the Education Act 1998) to allow for the provision of primary education by Vocational Education Committees and to empower a VEC on instruction from the Minister for Education and Science, to act as Patron of a primary school. The Qualifications (Education and Training) Bill 2009 will replace the Qualifications (Education and Training) Act 1999 in order to amalgamate the National Qualifications Auth- ority of Ireland, the Higher Education and Training Awards Council and the Further Education and Training Awards Council. The new organisation will also take responsibility for the external quality assurance review of the universities, a function which is currently performed by the Irish Universities Quality Board and the Higher Education Authority. It may also be noted that the Student Support Bill 2008 is currently before the Houses of the Oireachtas.

Departmental Expenditure. 267. Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Education and Science the number of press conferences and policy launches which were held by his Department in 2007 and 2008; the cost of hosting each one; if he will supply the information in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3707/09]

Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): The information requested is not readily available in my Department and is currently being compiled. I will arrange to forward the information to the Deputy as soon as possible. 619 Questions— 4 February 2009. Written Answers

Pupil-Teacher Ratio. 268. Deputy Olivia Mitchell asked the Minister for Education and Science if his attention has been drawn to the fact that changes in the pupil-teacher ratio has had the unintended consequence of ending job share and career breaks in most schools in which above quota schools are unable to get funding for replacement teachers; if this will increase rather than decrease the cost to his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3717/09]

Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): The career break and job sharing schemes have not been withdrawn and there have been no recent amendments to these schemes. The decision to approve an application under either of these schemes is a matter for the authorities of the employing school.

Schools Building Projects. 269. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Minister for Education and Science his plans to provide a permanent building for a school (details supplied) in County Dublin; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3719/09]

Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): I can confirm that the school to which the Deputy refers has submitted an application for a new school building. Progress on this project will be considered in the context of my Department’s multi-annual School Building and Modernisation programme. However, in light of current competing demands on the Department’s capital budget, it is not possible to give an indicative timeframe for the progression of the project at this time.

Physical Education Facilities. 270. Deputy Olivia Mitchell asked the Minister for Education and Science if he will respond to communications from the board of management of a school (details supplied) in Dublin 16 and from this Deputy regarding the provision of a sports hall at no cost to his Department, in view of the fact that the school has been without indoor sport facilities for almost twenty nine years. [3733/09]

Minister for Education and Science (Deputy Batt O’Keeffe): I can confirm to the Deputy that the school to which she refers has made a proposal to my Department in relation to the provision of sports facilities. The Planning and Building Unit of my Department will be in contact with the school authority shortly in relation to this proposal.

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