2 Interview ~ 2005

SO WHO IS MARK ALLEYNE?

And what does he do? What colour socks does he wear? Well, if Ant fans have been paying attention to the recent Ant Remasters releases, they will know he’s responsible for bringing us a fantastic looking set of CDs, presented in a rather nifty red box. Last year we spoke to Marco Pirroni and Andi Vaughan and it seemed only natural to pin down the third and final member of the team behind the most exciting Ant releases for over 10 years.

You were a roadie for the Ants and the Monochrome Set. When was this?

I didn’t roadie for The Ants. I roadied for a post-Ants band John [Bivouac] Beckett and Mark [Kid] Ryan put together, round about 1981 ~ 83, and then The Mono- chrome Set 1983 ~ 85. I should probably point out that The Monochrome Set would never have admitted to having anything as vulgar as a ‘roadie’. I was their ‘travelling companion’. I think they saw me as some kind of precariously tempered, shoddily turned-out ‘batman’.

How did you become a roadie?

Early in ‘81 I was designing a poster for some theatre group or other and was recom- mended a printer in Covent Garden. I pitched up there and was discussing the job with the print shop owner, whom I thought looked vaguely familiar. I was pleased as he seemed to know his stuff, which was pretty useful - because I had very little idea of the technical side of print. The poster was quite funny - it had cherubs hurling atomic bombs about, I remember. For some reason talk turned to music and I men- tioned that I had been quite into Adam And The Ants, a little-known art-punk outfit currently taking the pop world by storm after some personnel changes. The penny dropped. “Oh, yeah - I did a bit of guitar for The Ants”. Of course he did. I was talking to Johnny Bivouac.

The thing that’s easy to forget about those times was that if you liked a band it wasn’t really like being a fan at all - you didn’t really take too much notice of who played what, whether the singer was pretty or not - all that mattered was the noise they made, how they came across. Whether or not they embodied some aspect of the Impending Apocalypse. Ha, ha. Of course, The Ants did. Interview ~ 2005 3

I think John was pleased that someone remembered what he’d done - it’s always pleas- ant to have people appreciate your work. He said we should meet up later in the week for a beer. We did, and he brought along Mark Ryan with whom he was playing and writing occasionally ‘to keep our hands in’. We became quite mates, and when they started recording and gigging around a little more seriously, it was just obvious for me to roadie for them so we could just hang out, travel around together - and get free beer! We just fell into it. I would make up intro tapes for them to come onstage to - Hindi film tunes segueing into ‘Wunderbar’, or the theme from ‘The Avengers’ slamming into something equally inappropriate. It got the audience’s attention.

When Andy Warren left The Ants in October ‘79, a lot of The Ants crew would turn out to see The Monochrome Set. Not only had Andy joined on bass - replacing Jeremy Harrington - but Spider [AKA ‘Longfellow’ or ‘Long’], who’d worked for The Ants during ‘78, was now roadying for them. So it was kind of like a home from home. Re- ally violent gigs for such a well-mannered outfit, I remember. When I stopped going to see The Ants after the Invasion Tour in 1980, I’d still go to every London gig The Monochrome Set played. We knew people in common, and I fell into going backstage to say ‘Hello’ and drink their rider after each gig. Andy eyed me suspiciously for some months, but didn’t do anything other than nod a cursory acknowledgement when- ever we met. It later transpired that he was fascinated by the fact that not only did we wear the same leather Luftwaffe gloves during cold weather, but also smoked the same white-tipped Ligget & Meyer cigarettes. Once he was sure this was coincidental shared taste and not some proto-stalking symbolism, he invited me to accompany The ‘Set - “You eat all the food and drink all our beer anyway - you may as well earn it”. So I did. So followed a couple of years of getting paid to hang out with one of my favourite bands - until we returned from a UK tour in 1985, when I decided I’d had enough of roadying, they decided they’d had enough of each other, and disbanded - for a while.

What did it (roadying) involve doing?

You know, roadie stuff. Humping gear about. Building and breaking down drum kits. Enforcing ever more strict and ludicrous riders. Making up numbers while attempt- ing to forcibly extract the gelt from the local tight-arse of a promoter. Keeping the van driver awake coming back from Dundee at three in the morning. Attempting to ‘pull’ ‘chicks’ while attempting not to appear to be attempting to ‘pull’ ‘chicks’ [not pulling them was easier, and had a near 100% success rate]. You know - these weren’t 4 Interview ~ 2005

The Rolling Stones here, or even The Bay City Rollers. Let alone Adam And The Ants. How long did you do this for?

On and off between 1981 and 1985.

How did those roles differ for each band?

Well, The Monochrome Set were a more successful act, so there’d be better hotels, better riders, more money and a slightly more attractive class of ligger, but other than that, roadying is roadying is roadying. I mean, we did some good stuff on the road - Channel 4’s ‘The Tube’ sticks out in my mind, meeting a tearful Dave Berry - so touched that we youngsters even knew who he was - in Sheffield’s Leadmill, and a VE night in Hull [don’t ask]. At times it could have been incredibly boring but I really quite liked most of the people involved, and - as I said earlier - it’s great to be a young guy getting paid to hang out with your favourite bands. It’s not work on that level. Kids don’t really seem to do it much these days. Maybe they’ve got better things to do.

You designed the motif that appeared on the Clannad ‘Legend’ album in 1984. It’s similar to Adam’s Strip logo from around the same time. Is that just coincidence?

Yes. By that time I had no interest in what Adam was doing. I was a 23 year old ex- punker and ‘Strip’ was aimed at, and intended for, 13 year old girls. I wasn’t meant to be interested. And I wasn’t. I probably didn’t even see the album until it had been out for six months. My copy is a promo copy found in Notting Hill Record And Tape Exchange for fifty pence, bought at the time out of some kind of residual-knee-jerk- reflex-dumb-consumer-loyalty. It came in handy though - the sleeve was the source of the remaster cover, as the original photograph by Allan Ballard had evidently long gone walkies.

So no, the Clannad motif had nothing to do with ‘Strip’. While I was roadying, I was also pursuing a proper job as a graphic artist. I trained for a while under Rob Interview ~ 2005 5

O’Connor [who subsequently art directed ‘Vive Le Rock’] and I did the ‘Robin Of Sherwood’ woodcut motif for him.

Was the Clannad motif made for the group, or was it connected to the ‘Robin Of Sherwood’ TV series, which the album was the soundtrack for?

Rob was designing the packaging for the TV soundtrack album, and I created the motif under his direction. As far as I can recall, Rob was commissioned by the record label who were coordinating the approvals and permissions of both the TV produc- tion company and Clannad themselves. For what it’s worth.

You designed the sleeve for The Monochrome Set’s ‘Trinity Road’ (1995). How did that come about?

Andy Warren came to see me and said “We’ve just recorded an album for Cherry Red. Would you like to do the cover?” Normally their guitarist Thomas Hardy [Lester Square] took care of their design requirements, particularly after the band reconvened in 1989 or 1990, but this time, for whatever reason, they wanted me to do the sleeve.

What inspired you?

After I agreed, Andy and I got down to the serious business of discussing what exact- 6 Interview ~ 2005 ly the album was about. Having drunk several bottles of Italian red, as was our wont, and having got no further than the album title [which was by no means finalised at this point] referring to a long-time disused London Underground station near where Andy and Bid [The Monochrome Set’s singer/guitarist] grew up, I decided to go my own way with it. Having spent most of my life in and around central London, and from my early teens travelling on ‘the tube’, I was used to catching rare glimpses of these derelict underground train stations up some unused spur of track - with adver- tising posters from the ‘thirties or ‘forties still discernable on the walls - when the train I was on stopped for some reason or other between stations. It was amazing to know there were these time bubbles under the city - unused since The Blitz, perhaps - that were just tantalisingly beyond an outstretched arm, hand, finger - but visible, when the light was right.

I’ve always enjoyed modern art. Usually the ideas are more exciting than the physi- cal manifestations, but you can’t have everything. I’d always loved the idea of an abstract painting, for instance, being used as a blueprint by an engineer. What version of reality could be reverse-engineered from an abstract painting? The Trinity Road sleeve is based on Charles Demuth’s 1928 work ‘I Saw the Figure 5 In Gold’ - which in turn was derived from the artist’s impression of a utility train grinding and thun- dering through a New York subway station in the early hours of the morning. I used this as a template for the 3D model which is the core of the image. Right up to the eleventh hour, however, it still looked, well - incomplete. It wasn’t until a postcard from a friend holidaying in Brazil dropped through my letterbox that it came together. When I saw Jesus’ outstretched arms I laughed out loud. It tied the lights, the perspec- tive and the symbolism of the image together in a way I couldn’t have planned. The band’s name on the sleeve was designed to be printed in metallic ink, but we’re deal- ing with Cherry Red Records here...ha, ha. The back was quite funny, too - I used the London Underground track schematic with song titles where the station names would be, way before that guy nominated for the Turner Prize used the same idea. Ha, ha! I would gladly revisit this job and do it properly. But then again, that’s often the way.

What’s the significance of the #9? Was it their 9th album?

It was their 9th studio album.

Did you do any other work for that band? If so, what? Interview ~ 2005 7

Yes. I’d already artworked and furnished elements for [but not designed] their earlier 1985 single ‘Wallflower’.

What other work did you do for Rank Amateurs?

Shedloads. But ‘Rank Amateurs’ was simply a name under which I operated from time to time. Some clients feel more comfortable working with entities, rather than individuals, so ‘RA’ was simply a flag of convenience I used when dealing with people like that.

You were blessed with a thank you on ‘AntBox’. What was your involvement?

Marco called me and said that they couldn’t find certain master tapes of some of the songs he and Adam wanted to use for the set. Did I have any decent copies of them? Yes, I did. “Thank you” he said. You’ll be relieved to know that the masters I refer to have turned up in the meantime - ready for the Demo Box.

How did you happen to be in possession of master tapes?

I didn’t have masters. I became a kind of unofficial Ants archivist during the ‘eighties - rather than risk losing demos or writing tapes - they’d be given to me for safekeep- ing. The tapes I had in this instance were first generation copies of the ¼” mix tapes on metal cassette.

Also on ‘AntBox’, there’s a demo of USSA, recorded in 1987. You’re credited to con- tributing additional vocals. What additional vocals?

The chanting vocals.

How come you didn’t end up being credited on the final version, which appeared on Manners & Physique?

Because it was a demo. It was re-recorded for the album.

How did this singing session come about?

On the last Monochrome Set tour, I was going a little stir-crazy. Andy Warren and I 8 Interview ~ 2005 would dream up things to do to break up the boredom. Whenever Bid went to change a guitar between songs, Andy would start playing bass-lines to Dave Berry songs and I’d run out on stage - leather-clad - and begin gyrating about, mimicking Dave Berry [from whom Alvin Stardust learnt everything he knows] and generally disrupting the solemnity of the occasion. By the time we got to Hull we’d all had enough. It was VE night, and - when Bid went to execute his first guitar-change, I ran up and broke into Vera Lynn’s ‘We’ll Meet Again’. “Topical”, I thought. It went down like a lead balloon. The gig continued. But I wasn’t going to be beaten by a bunch of Hullians. There was another pause. I ran onstage. “Bearing in mind” I said into the mic “that every Fritz was some fraulein’s Leather Lover - let us not tonight forget the other side - this is Defeat In Europe night, for some” and broke into ‘Tomorrow Belongs To Me’ from ‘Cabaret’. Seemingly everyone in the place knew all the words [an unnerv- ing and scarifying experience - that’ll teach me] and it may as well have been Berlin, 1933. I legged it offstage and realised I needed the bathroom, sharpish. So there I am, answering the call when a wild-eyed ‘Set fan runs in: “What a roadie! What a roadie!” he gushes, extending his hand. I am having a waz, right hand full - not really a good look - so I just smile distractedly as he runs out again.

My ‘performance’ hadn’t gone unnoticed by others, either. Dave Harper, the band’s road manager [now manager of Goldfrapp], who occasionally would get up and do ‘The ABC Of Medicine’ with the band, suggested to Mike Alway of Cherry Red sister label ‘él’, that I was a raw, unrefined, talent-in-the-rough that he should ‘snap up immediately’. Alway suggested I record a cover of Scott Walker’s ‘Montague Terrace (In Blue)’. We’ll need a B-side too, so I bang out a cautionary anti-romantic ditty called ‘Little Black Dresses’. I call Andy Warren and head over to Marco’s place near Baker Street to demo the songs. Paul Stahl [long term Marco associate - The Weekend Swingers, El Trains] doubled up with Marco on acoustic guitar, Andy played bass through a pig-nose amp while I emoted mournfully over the top. Bang, crash - demo done. Of course él go for this and we’re booked into Rooster II studios in West Kensington. We’re in the studio with Richard Preston at the controls. He’s a little lost with all Marco’s electric gear - he’s really known for his work produc- ing strings and acoustic material (he engineered the soundtrack to Derek Jarman’s ‘Caravaggio’). But we muddle through. Andy plays bass, Marco all guitars and I’ve got Christine [singer in Pink Parts, the band who regularly supported The Ants during some of their earlier 1977 gigs] along to do BVs. We do ‘Montague Terrace...’ like ‘Are Friends Electric’ - all moody, desolate and emotive. Heavy, maaan. ‘Little Black Dresses’ is vaguely hilarious - lifted by one of Marco’s brilliantly funny guitar solos. Interview ~ 2005 9

Various subsequent events make me decide that él won’t be troubled by my musical output any more. The single comes out in December 1986 [credited to the ‘Mayfair Charm School featuring Victor Armada’ - my nom de guerre for this project], garners generally favourable reviews, and then disappears from sight without troubling the most alternative of alternative charts. For some unfathomable reason it sells 5,000 copies in Brazil. The A-side turns up on CD a year or so later, as part of the ‘London Pavillion’ compilation. Because the rest of the tracks on the album are largely whis- pered, acoustic ramblings, ‘Montague...’ is EQ’d down to nothing during mastering to avoid blowing everything else on the record away. Very disappointing. Bye, bye él.

“That’s me under the sheet, and my feet on the back. Thomi Wroblewski [the photographer/designer of the sleeve] and I had to break into the Albert Memorial which was closed for refurbishment to get the picture. I wanted to use that venue as a nod to the scene in ‘Jubilee’. The sheet was to make me look like a ghost - the ghost of ‘punk-rock’ - ha, ha! The promo photo was shot earlier the same evening. At the same time we were doing the ‘Memorial shoot, Sigue Sigue Sputnik were playing over the road in The Royal Albert Hall.”

1987 : Adam’s living in L.A., and he and Marco exchange tapes of songs and ideas by post while they’re working up the songs that would turn into ‘Manners & Physique’. I’m living in West Kensington now, and Marco decides he wants to finish these songs he’s been working on in a different studio. “What’s the name of that little place we did ‘Montague...’ in?” I tell him, and he books some time. I’ve forgotten all about it until the phone goes. Can I come round and do some vocals on this demo? It’s only round the corner. Do I have to? Oh, alright then . . .

What other tracks were you involved in?

None. 10 Interview ~ 2005

THE HOLY SPITFIRES

Your vocal talents have also been put to good Ant-use with your band ‘The Holy Spitfires’. Where did the idea for that name come from?

The name ‘The Holy Spitfires’ comes from a poem by Adrian Mitchell quoted in Jeff Nuttall’s 1968 opus ‘Bomb Culture’:

...we were crazy-thirsty for Winston Superman For Jesus with his infinite tommy-gun And the holy spitfires...

You’ve covered three early Ants tracks, namely ‘Send A Letter to Jordan’, ‘Ligotage’ and ‘Weekend Swinger’. Why did you choose to cover Ant songs, and why specifically those three?

It’s probably useful to understand that the guys who were in early line-ups of The Ants were also great fans of the band. Except Mark Ryan, that is, who thought it was all a complete bunch of toss. True punk-rock. Ha, ha!

While we were on the last Monochrome Set tour in ‘85, Andy and I decided to form a covers band - based on the same ethos as ‘The B-Sides’ [“We’ll play the B-sides to songs that weren’t even hits”] - really just for fun. Thus were born ‘The Legendary Mark Antony And The Centurions’. The vogue at the time was for increasingly clipped single-word - even single-syllable band names. We thought we’d buck the trend.

When we got back, I called John ‘Bivouac’ Beckett and asked him if he wanted to join Andy and myself in The ‘Centurions. He brought along Iain Stevenson who’d drummed with him in the band I’d roadied for a couple of years earlier, and we were off. In addition to John we had another guitarist whose resignation I had cause to accept after one particularly intolerable rehearsal. We played the next two rehears- als with just John on guitar, but we all really wanted another guitar there in the mix. Andy said he knew someone who would maybe like to play with us. He’d sound him out. Andy was late the next week. Half-an-hour into the session the door opened and Andy walked in with our replacement guitarist - Marco.

One of Marco’s amusements in life is showing that he can play Adam’s songs bet- Interview ~ 2005 11

“Guitar solo madness. Video stills from ‘The Legendary Mark Antony And The Centurions’ ‘Dynamite’ clip. Andy Warren - Bass, Mark - Saint Vi- tus dance, John Beckett - Guitar”

“Super 8 stills from the same promo clip: That’s real blood on John’s gui- tar - no-one told him to just mime the solo”

“Video stills from the same clip: Me [I’m hocking a lugey, not blowing a kiss], Me with Andy smiling! Andy, Christine and me, Christine [who is blowing a kiss - not hocking] and John” 12 Interview ~ 2005 ter than anybody else, but the sound that he and John created together was pretty astounding. This was for fun - there wasn’t even the merest whiff of rivalry between John and Marco. Thus, it was already in our culture to play early Ants material pretty much from day one. ‘Send A Letter To Jordan’ and ‘Weekend Swinger’ are really not particularly accomplished pieces of songwriting. They have their charm, but their strength, to my mind, lies in their relentless riffs. I was used to hearing Marco and John play together, and I really wanted to hear them play these songs.

The entire third Peel session is to me the very apogee of art-punk - if such a genre can be held to exist. I think ‘Ligotage’ is a great pop song and really just wanted to record a more instrumentally full version of a great tune. In truth, we hardly changed a note, although our version does have the more expansive sound I wanted.

You are obviously familiar with these three songs, even though only ‘Ligotage’ has been properly recorded (Peel Session). How did you know the music for the other two and the words for all three?

Well, John and Andy used to play them in the Ants. Basically, the Ants songs we cov- ered are pretty derivative at source. ‘Ligotage’ is ‘The Passenger’ by Iggy and ‘Send A Letter...’ is ‘I’m Free’ by The Who. And Adam used to make these great little lyric books to give to band members when he wanted to introduce new songs into the set - little picture books with typewritten lyrics and stapled spines. I have some of these.

The Holy Spitfires’ line up is almost a classic Adam And The Ants reunion, with you replacing Adam on vocals, Marco Pirroni and Johnny Bivouac on guitar and Andy Warren on bass. How did the idea first come about?

It was really just an extension of the various incarnations of our ‘fun’ bands, starting with ‘The...Centurions’, through ‘Atom’, ‘Wig Wam Blam’ and others...we hadn’t done anything together for years, and I realised we hadn’t made the album we perhaps should have made - in fact any album - in all the years we’d tooled around together. This was a sin. We’d probably got two albums worth of original material, but it would all need seriously refurbishing and rewriting - a bit more work than was practical to arrange, and probably more than any of us could realistically be arsed to do. So we reverted to the ideas we’d originally gone with when we started playing together - an album of covers, knocked out in our spare time. Three months, start to finish. Well, that was the plan. I called everyone up and arranged a meeting at Marco’s. Everyone Interview ~ 2005 13 turned up. Quite a reunion. This is central London, and all through the evening there are military jets flying low overhead. None of us had ever seen anything like it. I took it as an favourable omen. How very wrong I was [it turned out, by the way, that this was an RAF rehearsal for the Queen Mother’s forthcoming birthday celebrations].

Who played drums on these recordings?

The very amazing Dave Ruffy, who as I’m sure you know drummed with The Ants on the 1996 ‘Wonderful’ tour, as well as with Sinead and Marco on the staggering 1990 ‘I Do Not Want...’ tour, and on everything of quality The Ruts ever did. Plus.

What other tracks did you record?

I almost told you then - but I’ve decided against it. A large part of the impact of the album is derived from people realising what we’ve recorded. I don’t want fuck with that, really. I can tell you that the final album runs to eleven tracks - we recorded twelve, but one of them just wouldn’t sequence-in, and as the album wasn’t weak- ened by it’s loss, I kicked it out. Suffice to say it’s all pretty hilly you know? - Swoony.

What are your future plans for the band?

To get ‘Daddy Weirdo [Heavy Pop Classics Volume 1]’ out. Marco and I have been rather busy with other things just recently...the next project was slated to be The Holy Spitfires ‘Get God’ - an E.P. of religious songs. But with Marco busy with The Wolf- men, the Ants demo box set to be completed, the Ants DVD needing just a lick, and with everyone who survived the SonyBMG purge [sorry, ‘merger’] paralysed with fear...who knows when we’ll get around to it?

If you could record three more early Ant songs, what would they be? And why?

I don’t really want to record any more Ants numbers, but if my life depended on it, ‘London Sound’ would be interesting to do - great lyrics and it could have a complete- ly monster riff. The ‘Centurions’ did ‘Lambretta Love’ live - not sure if I’d bother to go over it again now, though - and I suppose maybe ‘9:30 Heartbreak’. Because I’ve always liked it.

When can we expect this material to be released? 14 Interview ~ 2005

‘Daddy Weirdo’ is a concept album. Really. Although the tracks all stand up on their own, the record really should be played from start to finish in in a linear fashion in order to convey the story I intended. This kind of cuts down it’s suitability for on-line distribution, and I certainly wouldn’t want to go exclusively down that route. It takes someone clued-up and well, older really, to ‘get-it’. As many people in A+R at record companies now are a) too young to remember the songs in their original context - es- sential to understanding the true genius of the project ha, ha - and b) afraid for their jobs like they’ve never been before - I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.

Will it be on Marco’s ‘Only Lovers Left Alive’ label?

No. If that were remotely practical, it would have been out on OLLA by now. The Holy Spitfires won’t be playing this album live, so whoever picks the album up will need to consider marketing the project by less obvious means, although to sell it on the back of the interest we’ve created with the Remasters and forthcoming DVD and demo collection would make a lot of sense. Any takers out there . . . ?

You already had work released through OLLA on the form of the sleeve for the SEX compilation CD in 2003. Was the photo of Jordan outside the front of the shop really in that condition, or was made to look like that by you?

The actual Sheila Rock photograph has been very subtly tweaked to conform to what we wanted to convey, but the torn photographic paper element was courtesy of An- drew Wade [of ‘only-anarchists’], which is why he’s credited with ‘additional design’ in the booklet. Interview ~ 2005 15

Did you also design the other OLLA album sleeves (Biba and Granny Takes A Trip)?

I designed the ‘Biba : Champagne & Novocaine’ package, yes - but ‘Granny...’ is being designed by Nigel Waymouth who, in addition to founding the boutique, was partner to illustrator Michael English with whom he formed psychedelic design part- nership Hapshash And The Coloured Coat. It’s more authentic for him to do this one.

You’ve also been busy elsewhere, namely working for 2020 Casting. The most strik- ing is the ‘Blue Lady’. What inspired you when designing that?

Ha, ha! That’s funny, why on earth would you want to know about this? My work for 2020 has been essentially brand development - not just the layout and covers of the annual books, but all elements from logo to stationery to signage within their prem- ises - the lot. The book you’re referring to was the 2003 annual - we always refer to it as ‘Bluebird’. I always attempted to do something unexpected if I could - the as- sistant directors who use the annuals have to look at these great tomes everyday, all year round - so I’d try to create something that reflected what was going on within the industry, however obliquely, while also being endurable - if not pleasant to look at for a whole year. There was an upsurge in interest in Indian/Asian culture and imagery around that time, and this offered an opportunity to emphasise the pan-ethnic nature of 2020’s artistes, and clientele. But rather than go all predictable and ‘Bollywood’ about the whole thing - I went for something a little more...highbrow. The version ultimately used on the published book wasn’t my favourite - altogether too dark and 16 Interview ~ 2005 well - blue, for my liking, but occasionally you’re obliged to give the client what they want, rather than what you know is best. Ha, ha. What was the inspiration behind this image? Well, I’ve always enjoyed Indian religious art - and I love the vibrant colours used in Asian costume and decoration. Also, there was this fantastic black, black, black Indian girl I had lined up as the model for this commission. I’d sold my client on the idea and was already in pre-production when she flaked out on me and didn’t turn up. Luckily, my ex-partner was available at a moment’s notice and, being quite exotic herself, saved the day by sitting in for me at the last moment. The colours are those used to signify Hindu deity, and the symbols around the font are stylised ancient signs denoting life, continuity and good fortune.

How did you come to get involved in designing books for this company?

2020 lacked a unified visual style. I was introduced as someone who could create this for them, and - after much talking to establish we were seeing eye-to-eye in key areas, I was commissioned.

Who else have you worked for in a design capacity?

I’ve been working professionally as a designer for over twenty years. I haven’t a hope of listing everyone I’ve worked with or for, and it would be both insane and boring for me - and your readers - to try.

How much of your daily routine, is dedicated to designing?

That depends on exactly what project is at hand. And at what stage the project is at. Suffice to say that 90% of any project takes place in the mind. Only once the work is Interview ~ 2005 17 done there do I even begin to start the practical process of realising a design in any tangible way. There is always something on the back boiler, waiting to be resolved - usually for the next project, rather than the one I’m working on in the present. In that context, I design from the moment I wake up until I conk-out in the evening.

Which do you use? A PC or a Mac?

Both.

“The invite I designed for Marco’s 40th birthday party. Based on the last great ‘Seditionaries’ print [‘Anar- chist Punk Gang’ or ‘1%’] from 1979, I detourned the ‘anarchy’ symbols into ‘40s’, took the teeth out of the text - and printed the venue on the reverse in invis- ible ink, which only became readable when held over a flame. I added the ‘Guernica’ bulls head to further personalise the design for Marco.”

How would you describe your role with the recent Ant releases?

Um, ‘Art Director’. I had a very free hand with what we were doing. Marco knows and trusts my work. Of course we discussed problems - but they were largely politi- cal issues. Although on the surface ‘Ant Remastered’ was a simple repackaging task, it was in reality one of the most inherently complex briefs I’ve ever dealt with. It’s not just simple design - we’re dealing with the level of trust invested by Adam - it’s his life’s work we’re dealing with here [not, I hope, to overstate the case]. I have not been free to do whatever I want, however sensational I may have thought it looked 18 Interview ~ 2005

- I’ve had to consider how everything I may do could impact on the way Adam and Marco’s work is perceived. I have been charged with a major role in protecting the perceived and actual value of their property, and maintaining a level of authenticity from a critical perspective as it has been suggested that this is the last makeover these records will receive for the foreseeable distant future. Last of all, and begrudgingly, I might add - I’ve had to vaguely consider what exactly the baying, slavering hordes of fans might actually want...

How did you get involved?

Marco phoned me up about eighteen months ago and said “Do you want to redesign the packaging for our back catalogue?” I said “OK”.

Were you working from your own ideas and designs?

Er, yes. Of course. That’s what I do. Even if I ‘steal’ something, it’s my idea to steal it. Designers are just very particular magpies.

What input did you get from Marco and Andi?

None whatsoever. Ha, ha. No, Marco and I discussed the general aesthetic to pur- sue, what we wanted to achieve with the repackage etc., and Marco frequently did his usual thing of looking like he hasn’t paid attention to anything you’ve said, and would really rather be doing something - anything - else, then solving this complete mother of a problem that’s cropped up with the most surprisingly simple tweak. Mak- ing it all suddenly perfect. He does that in the studio, too. He’s like an idiot savant.

Andi was great to work with, too. I don’t know if we talked half a dozen times over the project period, but I knew I could absolutely trust what he told me, and was con- stantly amazed at his ability to track crucial people and things down - quickly. He has done a brilliant job on the remasters. I really don’t think this could have happened without his participation.

When the 2004 Remasters dropped through my letter box, the first thing that hit me was the awesome spines. So much so the need to see all 7 CD’s together was immense. How was this idea born and developed into what we see today?- Interview ~ 2005 19

Having seen how these records had been packaged and repackaged over the years, it was clear to me that I needed to create something that would encourage people to re- evaluate what they thought they knew about these records. I couldn’t go too nuts - I wanted people to go “Yes, that was a great record sleeve, wasn’t it?” - not to freak out and not know what they were looking at. Looking back, there were some moments of hilarity in getting the design concept past Sony. At possibly the first meeting Marco and I had with the label, I suggested stripping the titles and names off of the album fronts. We thought they’d shit. The expressions on some of the faces of people in the room would have made more sense if I’d had just jumped on the table and pissed in their coffee. My point was, of course, that much of the photographic imagery was so iconic that the copy wasn’t necessary. I mean, no-one was going to look at the photo on the Prince Charming cover and say “Isn’t that Paul Young?” It’s as instantly identifiable as Bowie’s ‘Aladdin Sane’. It was agreed that I would come back with some examples of what I meant. Later, there was still some discomfort until I pointed out that now, with the artist name and record title contained within the borders as I’d proposed, instead of the artist name appearing twice on the outer packaging of say ‘Dirk...’ for instance, it now appeared fifteen times, and proportionately larger too, for the most part - not counting it’s appearance on the additional sticker. Sheer numbers won the day. We fought a long, bitter struggle over the spines, which were there from the original draught designs.

I always knew I wanted to use the ‘enamel badge’ idea for the album graphic logos, and the spines allowed me to do that in a way that wouldn’t interfere with either the logos, or the underlying sleeve. I could also colour-code them in a way that would compliment the original sleeve design and make them unique, and yet still uniform, even if viewed end-on. The main objection was that Sony had never seen anything like it. Reason enough to do it then, I said. In the end, Marco had to use his ‘Artist’ trump card to get it through. Now they act like it was their idea all along, ha ha. And ripped the entire style for their Remaster of The Clash’s ‘London Calling’ released some time after...

Uniformity was an important factor. I didn’t want people who weren’t familiar with the records to be able to make much of a value judgment based on the sleeve design. If you’d take a punt on ‘Kings...’ then why not on ‘Strip’? This applied throughout the packaging - and included the booklets. Certain decisions had to be made from day one - is lyric legibility more important than effect? No. We decided that convey- 20 Interview ~ 2005 ing a perception of value was more relevant to the criteria we were determining than duplicating a function that was now readily provided by scores of internet sites. If these were first-time releases we would certainly have made a different choice. Flow- ing the lyrics without break throughout the series allowed uniformity of style even if different fonts were used. The precedent I used in determining the style was Rob O’Connor’s original ‘Vive Le Rock’ layout.

The disc onbody prints took uniformity to an extreme. Of course we could have done full-colour extravaganzas, but I wanted to say that the medium didn’t matter - in these days of electronic downloads, the actual carrier is of no significance. I also wanted to convey the abstracted feel of a reference disc - these are, after all, the ulti- mate expressions of these recordings, like it or not. I allowed one deviation between the prints - ‘Dirk...’ was printed in that unsaturated ultra-pale grey to signify a philo- sophical division between the pre and post Pirroni Ants.

Dirk Wears White Sox : It’s obvious from the cover picture that the original photo of the model and chair were used. How difficult was it to obtain this?

You’d need to ask Andi Vaughan that. I think he tracked down Ian Tregoning [origi- nal founder/owner of Do-It Records] and asked him if he had the original record artwork. He did. So for me it was no more difficult than going to Sony’s offices in Soho and collecting it. Interview ~ 2005 21

The chair is visible on your cover but wasn’t on the original album. Why did you decide to show it this way?

I have about half a dozen copies of the original vinyl album of ‘Dirk...’. On some, the chair is very faintly discernable, on others it appears to be masked with a square block, and is completely missing on others. I don’t believe for one moment that there were several versions of the artwork made - in all probability these were amend- ments made to the litho film from which the printing plates were made. A piece of light-proof red tape, or the equivalent oxide masking paint would account for the differences I’ve described.

I decided to show it because it was clearly present on the original photograph on the original artwork board, and it also therefore made sense of the chair visible on the promo card, the re-issue labels, and subsequently the button badges.

The spine on Dirk features an Ants logo more associated with the Decca one. Why use this as opposed to the model and chair logo featured on the original vinyl label?

That was really the only logo used with any consistency throughout 1978-’79 - if you look at photographs of the new year’s eve gig [with Leigh Gorman on bass] the logo was still being used on the backdrop even then. The model and chair images were never official logos as such, and only appeared on the 1981 re-issue of the album. As far as I can ascertain, Adam didn’t design them, or have anything to do with them. Up to that point the only label used was the Do-It loudspeaker cone.

Inside the cover are photos of the master tapes, Do It labels and band pics. Where were these sourced?

Before they were returned to Sony’s Aylesbury archive, I had the opportunity to pho- tograph the original master tape boxes. The record labels were all photographed from my personal collection, as were the promo cards and gig tickets.

The first 2000 booklets were misprinted with purple backs. Describe how you felt when you first heard this news.

The first 5000 were printed with purple backs. 3000 were shredded at - ourinsist ence, but 2000 had already been shipped. How did I feel? I felt sick. If there is one 22 Interview ~ 2005 determining, undisputable factor inherent in the ‘Dirk...’ packaging, it is that it is BLACK AND WHITE. I had tinted the entire artwork to a rather attractive and subtle unsaturated blue-black - as seen on the digipak, but here was the booklet in various hues of brown, green, purple - everything, in fact, except what was supplied and intended. An astonishing triumph of the printer’s art by Sony’s European production plant, DADC. Let’s hear it for the c*nts!

Kings Of The Wild Frontier : The cover of Kings caused some problems. The origi- nal photo used couldn’t be obtained, so the obvious thing to do was to find the same frame in the Kings Of The Wild Frontier video. What happened when you did this?

I beg to differ. There wasn’t ever a significant problem with this. It’s true that we couldn’t find the original transparency - which in fact turned up the day after the final artwork was submitted for production [of course!] - but that wasn’t really a hin- drance as from the outset I had intended to work from the sleeve if the transparency couldn’t be found, centre Adam’s head and crop the image tighter - bearing in mind the smaller scale of the digipak compared to the 12” sleeve. It certainly would have been easy to clone out the text from a scan of the vinyl sleeve - but that was never an issue. I certainly never intended to go back to the video if I could possibly help it, and we established very early on that we didn’t have the version of the video used to cre- ate the original cover. I think the remasters version is the most powerful take on this image available. Marco and I wouldn’t have let it through if we believed otherwise. Interview ~ 2005 23

There are two versions of this video filmed from different angles. Were both videos checked?

No. It wasn’t necessary for what I wanted to do.

When the frame couldn’t be found, you had to work from an original sleeve. What exactly did you do to it as the background is brighter and the jacket is more golden?

Suffice to say everything was tweaked to create as vibrant and powerful take on this image as modern image mastering will allow.

Inside the booklet there are pictures of Adam Marco and Kevin, but no drummers. Why not?

You’ll notice that all of the pictures are really very tight-in on the frame. Because good quality, colour photographs [a criteria specified and agreed on during the initial planning stages of the project] featuring the entire group are remarkably thin on the ground for this specific era in the Ants’ history, believe it or not, I was forced to use video grabs for the content of the booklet. A PAL video grab is typically 720 x 576 pixels. By the time it’s blown up to print resolution there’s a whole world of artefact removal necessary, and it only works if the subject is huge in the frame. I have met Chris Hughes on several occasions over the years and he is an erudite and charm- ing man, and very few things would give me greater pleasure than to plaster him and Terry all over the booklet. I discussed this at length with Marco, and informed him that in my opinion there were absolutely no suitable grabs to be had. We finally decided that I shouldn’t lessen the impact of the project for the sake of democracy.

Marco’s picture comes from the Royal Variety Performance, why isn’t this credited? Did he choose this picture?

Because it doesn’t matter. None of the image locations have been credited, anywhere.

Prince Charming : The images on this cover are much sharper than any seen before. How much touching up was required?

All of this stuff required a phenomenal amount of tweaking and f*cking about with - but unfortunately I don’t possess a coherent system with which to rate such arbitrary 24 Interview ~ 2005 concepts!

The spine displays the Stand & Deliver logo as opposed to the PC logo (which is on the back). Why is this?

Because the decision of which logo to use in each case was determined by each logo’s suitability for transformation into an enamel badge-type graphic. Look at the line weights on all of the spine images, and imagine them transposed onto the logo you’re talking about, or the ‘Strip’ cartoon, for example. They simply wouldn’t work - or would have to be so big as to render the concept unworkable.

In the booklet is a picture of Adam with no make-up on which was taken after the Ants split. Why was this used?

Marco remembered exactly when Adam wore that outfit, and even when the photo session took place. This was the mufti gear Adam bought and wore after receiving their first royalty payments from ‘Kings...’, placing it smack in the middle of our time-frame.

The latest Remasters have a slightly different design, in that the covers have to be opened to access the booklets. Was this to stop the booklets falling out when closed? (If not why was it changed?) Interview ~ 2005 25

The original releases were cocked-up by Sony’s production plant. If you look on the ‘Dirk...’ digipak you’ll see that the inside right panel has a space deliberately ‘de- signed in’ [the area where Dave Barbe’s elbow is] to house the thumb cut-out. They manufactured them all the wrong way round, so on ‘Dirk...’ the extremely relevant word ‘Antmanifesto’ on the left panel is chopped out and made practically unread- able. Also, this way round, when you take out the booklet, it’s back to front. If it’s set in the right hand side as intended and originally supplied, when you take it out, not only do you see the front of the booklet, but the spine of the booklet slips back into the packaging easily, too. There was much shoutin-and-a-hollerin’ when these came in, I can tell you. The purple ‘Dirk...’ booklets were merely the icing on the cake. I’ve seen proofs of the re-prints, and these will be correct when they ship - i.e. matching the second phase packaging. At last.

So we are to expect re-prints of “Dirk...”, “Kings...” and PC. When are these likely to be available?

As soon as the first pressings sell out - by all accounts very soon. We have asked to be informed when this happens.

What was learnt from the first three CD’s that helped with the planning of the next three?

Not to trust Sony’s production capabilities! In fact we requested that they allow us to use the same people who did the production on ‘Sex...’ for us at Only Lovers, but they refused. We asked them again when they f*cked up the phase two remasters [leaving off the metallic print under the thumb cut-outs on the digipaks]. And I dare say we’ll ask them once more when the Demo Box is fucked up by their total inability to pay attention to detail.

Friend Or Foe : The album’s images were taken from stills of the Cannon & Ball show. Were the images you used sourced from the original TV production tapes? If not, how did you source this?

The images used on the inside of the digipak were stills supplied by the photographer Allan Ballard, who was on set at the show with Adam.

The logo on the spine (and on the front of the booklet) uses a sheriff’s badge with the 26 Interview ~ 2005

‘home taping is killing music’ logo in the middle. Where did this come from?

The original [Adam kneeling] logo used for this album wasn’t suitable for the badge treatment. I decided that the sheriff’s badge he wore on his G2S outfit would do the job very well, yet it lacked detail. On the reverse of the original vinyl release, was the ‘Home Taping’ stamp. I felt it’s use was particularly apt in this context for several reasons: It refers explicitly to piracy - Adam’s stock-in-trade. It pins the record firmly down in time - we weren’t attempting to contemporise these records, rather to set them like insects in amber, ha ha. It also provokes a contemplation of how poxy were the record industry’s fears then, compared to what they are facing with illegal P2P downloading and the threat to their very existence posed by their inability to police the use of digital media.

The small logo in the corners (and the one on the front sticker) also seems new. Where did this come from?

My vivid imagination.

On the Strip cover, why are the logos in the corners representing the four suits from a pack of playing cards?

It’s just a visual pun on ‘Strip Poker’ - what with this being Adam’s ‘Don Juan’ album. Interview ~ 2005 27

The original Strip album came with a free poster showing Adam in an open boiler suit with his hands covering his modesty. Had you considered including this?

Yes. I considered it - then immediately discarded it. ‘Strip’ needed all the help it could get. That poster wasn’t helping! 28 Interview ~ 2005

Vive Le Rock : Visually, this is the best looking of the set. This time Adam’s leg strad- dles over the border. What inspired this?

It’s an old graphics technique used to introduce the illusion of depth into what other- wise may be a very flat looking image. In this case it also follows the long line of both Adam and Marco attempting to prove they can fight their way out of wet paper bags - check the Young Parisians poster, or that video where Marco tears through a paper wall with his guitar. I used the same technique more subtly on ‘Prince Charming’.

Redux : Where was the cover photo sourced? And from what period?

It’s from an early ‘90s passport photograph. Close cropped from an identical group of four.

Where did the other black & white photo on the inside come from?

The photographer Allan Ballard.

The picture on the inside has a new ‘AA’ logo in the corner (which is also on the side of the red box). Where did this logo come from? Interview ~ 2005 29

In 1984 Adam achieved the ‘place in the country’ he sang about on ‘Friend Or Foe’. He engaged an architect to completely refurbish the property, and charged him with the design of even the smallest details. This logo comes from the centerpiece of a carpet designed for the bathroom.

Why was a still from Jubilee used inside the cover?

The whole point about ‘Redux’ is that it is a collection of demos [except for ‘Dan- dy...’]. The theme I wanted to use for this package centers around where songs, im- ages, ideas - come from. Listening to the demos you have the opportunity to track how these sonic sketches may have developed into your all-time-favourite Ant songs [perhaps] and visually, I wanted to evoke the period from which all of this stemmed - the early ‘seventies. Wherever you went at that time, even comparatively well-to-do people had wallpaper like that in their houses. Taste really was for quite a rare elite. Everything was really a bit crap, and very boring. There was nothing to do, nowhere to go. What was there for a young man or woman to do? PUNK ROCK. The one iconic image we hadn’t used anywhere in the set was Adam’s tattoo. My interpreta- tion of it on the spine was a refinement - as were the final songs to these demos. The ‘Jubilee’ still shows BOREDOM, and the earliest public manifestation of Adam’s commitment to personal imagery, his tattoo. Art and boredom. Where it all came from. Allegedly.

Why was there no booklet for this CD?

Why, indeed. You’re lucky to have got a digipak. Sony originally wanted to put ‘Bo- nus Disc’ [as it was going to be rather imaginatively called] in a card envelope. We absolutely refused this, and begged and cajoled and entreated for a full package. I had a stack of stuff which didn’t quite fit in with the albums, which I was relying on putting in the ‘Redux’ booklet. At the eleventh hour, however, the word came down that the figures just didn’t add up. No booklet - but we could stretch to a digipak. Woohoo!

The spine logo is inspired by Adam’s tattoo. Is this your adaptation of that design?

Yes.

All seven spine logos would make great pin badges for collectors. Was this ever discussed? 30 Interview ~ 2005

Yes. But they would be too expensive to be feasible. The level of detail required at the size we’d want to do them would make them practically jewellery.

Initially some of these releases were planned to be double CD’s. Had your designs incorporated this at that time?

No.

When this project was it its infancy, it had been planned to include Manners & Phy- sique, Persuasion and Wonderful. At what part of the design stage had you reached for these CDs?

Nowhere.

In your honest opinion, what do you think the chances of there being further Remas- ters for each of these titles?

It is now looking remotely possible. If, and only if it happens, it won’t be until next year. However, any discussion of this at the moment is purely speculative. Interview ~ 2005 31

Were you also responsible for designing the recent press ads for Sony?

Yes.

And what’s your opinion on the how these CDs sound to you?

You don’t think I actually listen to this stuff do you? Ha, ha! I think these records have never sounded better. Any music is only ever going to be reproduced as well as the kit it’s played on - be that vinyl, digital or wax cylinder. These are the reference versions of these recordings - and I think Marco’s shown reserve where needed, and insolence where warranted.

DVD : When the sleeves for the 2004 Remasters were announced the cover for the forthcoming DVD (Digital Tenderness) was also included. How much of that project have you completed?

It’s virtually complete. We still have certain content issues to resolve, but I think we’re nearly there. 32 Interview ~ 2005

When is this likely to hit the shelves?

We’re working towards an autumn 2005 release.

Has the track listing been finalised at this stage? If not what is definite so far?

The promo videos. Ha ha.

Which tracks are causing the most headaches?

It would be imprudent and potentially damaging for me to say!

THE DEMO BOX SET

Demo Box Set : You seem to have a more detailed role with this project. First the design – have you finished the cover?

No.

Is it true that the cover features an old picture of Adam sat in a chair?

What?

Is it also true that this picture has had the ‘Anton Bragaglia’ effect added to it, to make it look as though Adam is rocking?

Beg pardon? Are you saying that this information is not true?

Yes.

When will the fans be able to see your design? Whenever the pre-release marketing kicks in.

When can we expect to see this in the shops? Interview ~ 2005 33

I don’t know. Really. Everything’s up in the air at the moment.

The working title is ‘Young Man Rocking’. What will the finished title be?

I don’t know. We haven’t finished the project yet.

How many pages will the booklet be?

I don’t know - we’re still negotiating production issues.

You’re also very much involved in the mastering of the demos. What exactly is your role?

Consultant.

Most of these tapes (if not all) are over 25 years old. What condition are they in?

By and large they’ve been stored and preserved quite well. Where necessary, we’ve had the tapes ‘baked’ [a mild heating process which re-binds the magnetic tape coating to the carrier membrane] and then immediately digitised, so that the audio content is preserved forever, regardless of any further tape deterioration. A lot of Adam’s writing tapes were recorded on particular machines using particular blocks not necessarily readily available since the mid-seventies, so tracking down machines that could actu- ally play some of these tapes has been a bit of a headache. But we’ve been successful, so far.

Have any demos been discarded to date? If so, which ones?

We’re still in the selection part of the process as I write. Nothing has been completely discounted at present.

Where were these demos kept?

Various places. In secure lock-ups. Under Adam’s bed. In the cool, air-conditioned vaults of multi-national record companies. Guarded by ninjas and fragrant, kick-box- ing spy-chicks. And exoskeletoned atomic cyborgs. True. 34 Interview ~ 2005

It is believed that there are over 140 demos from such sessions as The Chelsea Tapes, Croydon demos, Decca demos, Jubilee demos, Muswell Hill Tapes, Notting Hill Gate Tapes, Putney Tapes, SGS demos, Virtual Earth plus some unidentified demos. How accurate is that figure?

Pretty much there. There is a tendency to overestimate the numbers, though, usually attributable to double-counting various tracks because of the compilation reels Adam made up over the years, and also some songs being referred to by different names in different places. Also, and I’m not quite sure how to tell you this - he taped over some of his recordings.

What are the Croydon demos? The Ants never recorded in Croydon.

I’ll ask the questions. What songs did Adam tape over?

At the end of some of the recordings, fragments of the ends of other songs [known - e.g. ‘Send A Letter To Jordan’, but not listed on the boxes] are audible. Who knows what Adam decided to wipe?

Is it all going to fit on 4CD’s?

We’ve negotiated this to be SonyBMG’s first MP3-only release. It will fit on one.

What’s going to get left off?

Stuff. Stuff will have to get left off. We should all just take deep breaths and accept it.

What’s been the most frustrating aspect of your role on this project so far?

Working with a recently merged corporation.

How much input from Adam has been needed for this project?

On the one hand, Adam has extended his trust to us to an unprecedented degree on both the Demo Box and the ‘Remasters’ projects. He has been fantastically co-opera- tive with our requirements - providing us with the rarest and most personal of mate- rial - and his approval for the work we’ve done which, I can assure you, we are not Interview ~ 2005 35 blasé about. On the other hand, Adam is living his life largely away from the glare of his past these days and we have - I hope - respected that and not called too frequently on his time, however much we would on occasion have liked to.

Are there any songs you’ve earmarked as personal favourites?

No. It all gets a bit beyond likes and dislikes. Personal taste becomes secondary to the overall requirements of the project.

Will this inspire you to get The Holy Spitfires back in the studio?

No. The Holy Spitfires are not really related to any of this at all, strange though that might sound. The impetus comes from elsewhere.

What can you tell us about ‘Ant Revisited’ – a project by Marco and Chris Hughes which would comprise of new mixes and updates on old tracks?

Absolutely nothing. We haven’t discussed it in any depth at all.

Apart from those mentioned, what other projects are you working on (not necessarily Ant related)

A couple of interesting projects are in development. I’ll let you know when they’re a little more advanced, as I suspect they may well be of interest to your readers...

Is there anything you’d like to add in closing?

No. Thank you.