• Abstract and Figures
• Public Full-text

Vol. 751 Friday No. 108 31 January 2014 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS European Union (Referendum) Bill Committee (2nd day)..................................................................................................1469 Written Answers .........................................................................................................WA 265 £4·00 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. The bound volumes also will be sent to those Peers who similarly notify their wish to receive them. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhansrd/index/140131.html PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords £4 Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords £600 LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £60 (£100 for a two-volume edition). Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volume of House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. All prices are inclusive of postage. The first time a Member speaks to a new piece of parliamentary business, the following abbreviations are used to show their party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative Con Ind Conservative Independent DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind LD Independent Liberal Democrat Lab Labour Lab Ind Labour Independent LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2014, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1469 European Union (Referendum) Bill[31 JANUARY 2014] European Union (Referendum) Bill 1470 Americans overwhelmingly believe that it is important House of Lords from our point of view, from the European Union point of view and from their point of view. Friday, 31 January 2014. I return to the Bill and this amendment. I am grateful for the support of the noble Lord, Lord 10 am Trefgarne. I bumped into him earlier on and described him as the custodian of the Companion. I respect him Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Leicester. in that capacity. I will keep an eye on him and he will be keeping an eye me to make sure that I stay in order. European Union (Referendum) Bill I said in my initial speech that the Bill is not fit for purpose. These amendments and many of the Committee (2nd Day) amendments that we will deal with today point out some of the problems, omissions and inadequacies of 10.06 am the Bill as drafted. I do not know who drafted the Bill, but it certainly does not have the fingerprints of good Clause 1: Referendum on the United Kingdom’s parliamentary draftsmen. It is totally inadequate. membership of the European Union Some people in Scotland think, and we can take the Scottish referendum as an example, that if—heaven forbid—they vote yes on 18 September this year then Amendment 50 if not immediately within very quick succession Scotland Moved by Lord Foulkes of Cumnock will become an independent nation. However, it is not as simple as that; it is not at all simple. It is up to 50: Clause 1, page 1, line 12, leave out subsection (6) Parliament—this Parliament—to consider the result of that referendum, to legislate, and to negotiate and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab): My Lords, I apologise discuss it with the Scottish Government. if I appear less lucid than I hope I usually am. Similarly, there is a view that if 50% plus one vote for the United Kingdom to move out of the European Noble Lords: Never! Union, that would happen very quickly. However, again, that is not the case. It is up to Parliament to assess the result, which is why subsequent amendments Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: Who said never? I have that say Parliament must assess whether the result of just travelled back overnight from the United States. the referendum is “definitive and beyond challenge”. It would create tremendous problems if it was challenged. Noble Lords: Why? The problems could arise, first, if the referendum was very close indeed, especially if there were a lot of Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: I was there with the spoilt ballot papers, which there could be—we have noble Lord, Lord Jopling, who told me that he would known elections where the number of spoilt ballot have made a lot of money if he had been able to keep papers has exceeded the majority vote. In a referendum, me there. But I managed to escape and here I am. that would mean that the result could be challenged. Earlier on, it sounded as though the noble Lord, Lord We will come to amendments later about counting Dobbs, had been flying overnight. in each of the constituent parts of the United Kingdom: England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland. If A noble Lord: Get on with it! there was a different result, for example, in Scotland, as we discussed briefly last Friday, we should think of the consequences of that. Indeed, there are other Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: I will get on with it, as consequences in other parts of the United Kingdom. my noble friend said. What if the result of the referendum was very close? I was there with the European Union Sub-Committee Under the Bill, everyone who has a vote for a UK on External Affairs, which is not irrelevant to what we European Parliament constituency will be voting in are talking about today—to the Bill as a whole and this referendum, which means that people from Gibraltar indeed to this amendment. We were there to discuss will be voting. We will come to those amendments in with senators, congressmen and members of the more detail later on, but just imagine if, on a very close Administration the proposed TTIP, the trade and result, the outcome of the referendum as to whether investment deal between the European Union and the the United Kingdom should remain a member of the United States, dealing with important issues such as European Union was decided by the votes of the financial services, agriculture, automobiles and so forth. people of Gibraltar. That would be astonishing, but it It is because we are a member of the European Union could happen. These are the kind of things that we that we are part of that and we can benefit from that have to take account of. trade deal as well as many other trade deals. Later on, we will discuss who votes in the referendum, It was very interesting because, in the margins, which is relevant to this as well. We will discuss just about everyone we spoke to, including the whether 16 and 17 year-olds should vote, and whether trade union—the AFLCIO—businessmen, senators European Union citizens living in the United Kingdom and congressmen, said that they hoped that the United or UK citizens living in Europe should. Again, Kingdom would stay in the European Union. The whether or not we incorporate and accept any of those 1471 European Union (Referendum) Bill[LORDS] European Union (Referendum) Bill 1472 [LORD FOULKES OF CUMNOCK] the importance of turnout. We had a problem in amendments—I hope we will—will affect the outcome Wales in the 1997 referendum, where there was a of the referendum as well. These are important matters, turnout of 50%—25% for and 25% against—although, which is why the gravamen of what I am proposing is as it happens, the devolved institutions are now wholly that, ultimately, this Parliament should decide. accepted. The aim of these amendments is to prevent a 10.15 am constitutional outrage. Any sixth-former who studies Two amendments, in the names of my noble friend politics knows it is a clear principle of the constitution Lord Anderson, and the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, that no Government can bind their successor. So why and in my name, relate to specifically defining some of try? What is the purpose? I had a television debate the qualifications that Parliament should take account with a leading member of the Conservative Party, and of. In particular, Amendment 51 says that 40% of when it was put to him, “What, really, is the purpose those registered to vote should, of this Bill?”, his reply was very honest: he said, “It’s a “give assent in the referendum”, signal”. If something is a signal, one of course has to while Amendment 56 would require that, ask the simple question of who it is a signal to. The signal was intended, presumably, either for potential “40 per cent of those registered to vote participate in the referendum”. UKIP supporters or Conservative Party Back-Benchers Amendment 56 is the one that I am really arguing for.

Load more

  46

Copy Link