Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 7 SEPTEMBER 1944

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

352 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

'· 2. The matter of obtaining addi­ tional supplies of paper for the purpose mentioned ha's been in hand for some con­ siderable time, and arrangements have now bHen made by the Controller of Paper to grant priority to the manufacture of paper for school requisites. With addi­ tional supplies of paper, provided that the necessary man-power is also made aVailable to the manufacturing stationers, it is thought that the position in regard to the issue of scholars' requisit·es will gradually improve. The Department of Public In­ struction has invoked the assistan0e of the Government P'rint·er in an endeavour to relieve the position as far as possible until regular supplies of school requisites are again obtainable.''

RETURNED SOLDIERS' LAND SETTI,EMENT. Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba) asked the Premier- '' 1. Has agreement been reached between the Commonwealth and State Governments as to the a'ction of the State Governments with respect to land settlement schemes for discharged and d-emobilised members of the forces~ '' 2. If so, what are the terms of the agreement~ '' ::!. Will legislation be required to give eff.act to the Sta'tes' share in the schemes in question~ '' 4. If so, will such legislation be intro­ duced during the present session of Parliament~''

Hon. F. A. COOPER (Bremer) replied- '' J to 4. This matter wa's the subjrct 0f discussion at the recent Premiers' Confer­ THURSDAY, 7 SEPTEMBER, 1944. ence, and, on the suggestion of the Prime Minister, discussions are to be resumed at a further special meeting of the Premiers' Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. S. J. Brassington, Conference to be convened before the end Fortitude Valley) took the chair at 11 a'.m. of this month.''

Q;UESTIONS. NATITONAL HOUSING SCHEME. SCH()OL REQUISITES IN NORTH QUEENSLAND. Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba) asked the Mr. MARRIOTT (Bulimba), for Mr. Premier- PATERSON (Bowen), asked the Secretary '' 1. What proportion of losses on low­ for Public Instruction- rented houses provided by the State will " l. Is he aware of the difficulty of pro­ be borne by the Commonwealth Govern­ curing in North Queensland school ment? requi_sites, such as mapping books, com­ '' 2. Have any rules been made as to merCial school books, scholars' memo. the classes of applicants who will be books, exercise books, and pastel drawing entitled to reduced rentals and as to the books~ amounts or proportions of the reductions r '' 2. Will h€ have inquiries made with a '' 3. If the answer to 2 is 'Yes,' view to increasing supplies of such school what are the rules in question' requisites and, if necessary, make representa­ tion to the Commonwealth Government to '' 4. Will any financial provision be made have extra stocks of Burnie cream laid for the building of such houses in i be paper made availabl-e to manufacturers for current financial yead" that purpose~" Hon. F. A. COOPER (Bremer) replied- Hon. J. LARCOMBE (Rockhampton) '' 1. Three-fifths of any fi'llancial loss :replied- incurred under the Government-sponoored " 1. Yes. The difficulty is, however, housing scheme will be borne by the Com­ general throughout the State. monwealth Government. [7 SEPTEMBER,) Questions. 353

''2. Yes. tories and shops, w:hich, to the extent of '' 3. Low-income tenants will be allowed any inconsistency, would prevail over the a rental rebate equal to the differenc(' pTovisions of the corr·csponding laws of between the economic rent and an agreed this State~" proportion of family income. 'l'he method of calculating family income and rental Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich) replied­ subsidy is as follows:-(a) The rebate ' ' 1 to 4. It is not the practice to answer shall be based on the family income, not questions involving expression of opinion.'' the income of the main br0adwinner only. Family income will include the whole of CAPITAL FOR COAL-MINING. the husband's income, plus two-thirds of the wife's (exclusive of child endowment), )lr. YEATES (East Toowoomba) asked and

HoJDL K .J. '\YALSH (Mirani) replied- '' 3. To prevent any possibility of a fall in prices due to a temporary glut on the " (a) 'md (b) 'l'ickcts are issued for all market at the time the crop ripens, will berths and seats Looked, aml the numbers he enter into negotiations with the above of tha tickets are reeorded on the dia'grams association, or any other primary producers' agair,st the reserYations made. In the case organisation, for the purpos,e of pur­ of berths and seats booked for holders of chasing the onion crop on behalf of the passes entitling them to such, the numbers State GGvernment at a price to be mutu­ or particulars of the pass are ente1'ed on ally arranged, and organising its sale and the diagram. Thus eYery reservation made distribution to consumers~'' ha's to be accounted for either in cash or requisition, or the authority for it shown. Hon. T. L. WILLIAJIS (Port Curtis) Occasional checks are made between replied- stations by inspectors.'' '' 1. Yes. IDLE CoAL-MINEs, QuEENSLAND. '' 2. It is not the function of the Stat'c Department of Agriculture and Stock to acquire and distribute produce, or to fix lir. PATERSON (Bowen) asked the Secretary for Mines- prices for this produce, and the secretary of the South Burnett Onion and Potato­ '' 1. What coal-mines have been idle in growers Association has been advised Southern Queensland since 1 January, 1944, a"ccordingly. and on how many days were such mines idle~ '' 3. See answer to l\ o. ~- '' 2. On how many days was each mme idle--(a) as a result of a strike of PAPERS. employees; (b) as a result of a closure by The following papers were laid on the employers; (c) for any other cause~" table:- Hon. V. C. GAIR (South Brisbane) Orders in Council (3), dated 24 August, replied- 1944, under the Primary Producers' '' 1 and 2. The information sought by Organisation and Marketing Acts, 192G the hon. member for Bowen is not recorded to 194 L in the Department of Mines.'' Regulations ( 4), dated 31 August, 1944, under the Primary Produears' Organisa­ COMMONWEALTH VEGETABLE FARM, tion and Marketing Acts, 19~6 to 1941. HOME HILL. MIGRATION POLICY. Mr. P ATERSON (Bowen) asked the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock- lUr. COLLINS (Cook) (11.12 a.m.): I '' 'Will he cause investigations to be made move- with a view to ascertaining the desirability '' 1. That, in the opinion of this House, of the purchase by the State Government a necessary requisite for the adequate of the Commonwealth Vegetable Farm at defence of Australia is a vigorous migra­ Home Hill for the purpose of establishing a tion policy of selected immigrants of the State Agricultural Farm in the coastal white races; giving special attention in the tropical part of Queensland, which among carrying out of that policy to the develop· other things could be used for seed pro­ ment of those parts of the northern portion duction~'' of Australia which are capable of settle­ ment and the establishment of both primary Hon. T. L. WILLIAMS (Port Curtis) and secondary industries. Teplied- '' 2. That a copy of this resolution be '' The establishment of State farms in forwarded to all State Governments, with Queensland will ha given due considera­ a request for their co-operation and assist­ tion as a post-war policy, a'nd the claims of ance in approaching the Federal Government North Queensland will not be overlooked with a view to bringing such a scheme in that event.'' into active operation.'' The motion is very wide indeed, and I believe ONION CROP, SOUTH BURNETT. that not only hon. members of this House but all reasonable citizens of Australia will Mr. P ATERSON (Bowen) asked the readily subscribe to it and help to see that Secretary for Agriculture and Stock- it is carried out. To my mind it far tran­ '' 1. Has he received any correspondence scends the realm of party politics. It touches from the South Burnett Potato-growers' a question somewhat similar to those dealt Association in connection with the purchase with by the Federal Tariff Board, which are and distribution of the" onion crop from the not treated as party matters because its South Burnett district or any other part inquiries are looked upon as being essential of Queensland f to the successful development of Australia. I feel sure, therefore, that hon. members on "2. If yes, what action, if any, has been both sides irrespective of party or political taken, or what action does he propose to belief, will not only subs~ribe to the moti~n take, in connection with this matter' but will do all they poss1bly can to help m Migration Policy. L7 SEPTEMBER.] Migration Policy. 355 carrying out the very desirable programme it tralia has only 2.3 persons to the square mile, proposes to lay down. the lowest of any recognised country in the world today. Of course, many people will 'l'he need for populating Australia is so argue that much of Australia is not capable apparent that it hardly requires mentioning. of carrying a dense population, and with The need for populating the northern part of that opinion I ag11ee to a certain extent, but the continent was made very evident in the I do not agree that Australia as a whole is early months of 1942, when for the first time incapable of carrying a population many in our history we were facing the onrush of times greater than its present one. And while a successful, determined and extremely well­ the population of the whole of Australia is organised enemy. Those who lived in the only 2.3 persons to the square mile, it is far North at that time appreciated more only one person to every 4 square miles in the than ever they did before just how lack of northern half, and when we realise that even population was detrimental to the defence that population is situated mainly along the of this country. Australia is so vast and fringe of the eastern seaboard, we shall readily so sparsely populated that our means of understand how the western part of Queens­ defence were very inadequate. We did not land is far from being properly defended, as have enough man-power to establish a reason­ is the Northern Territory and the whole of ably effective civilian army even if we had the northern part of Western Australia. had at our disposal the weapons necessary for :'-Ian:v of these areas have from no population arming it. This fact sheeted home to the at all to the density that I have already people of Australia our weakness in defence mentioned, which is only one person to f'very against hostile attack. Nearly all the indus­ 4 square miles. tries that were efficient for the manufacture of war and civilian materials were in the The rate of growth in our population has southern part of Australia, which meant that been reasonably good during the period Aus­ the bulk of the population was in that part tralia has been occupied. Starting from of the continent, and it was the opinion of nothing about 144 years ag·~ it has been an exceedingly slow progress to develop the the Defence Department at that time that the population to what it is today. We shall southern part of Australia must be defended have to take, I consider, extraordinary and, if it could not be avoided, the North methods, not ordinary ones, to bring a bout should be abandoned to the enemy for the a complete change and a complete re:vision time being. of the position as it exists today. In order At the outset I wish to make clear to give hon. members some idea of the what I mean when I speak of the northern incn~ase in population in Australia during part of Australia. Many people refer to the period from 1800 down to the present the Northern Territory as being the northern time, the most useful comparison would be part of Australia. That is entirely wrong. with the U.S.A., which next to Australia is Although I live in the northern part of probably the next youngest country in the Queensland I refer, when speaking of the world that has had considerable develop­ northern part of Australia, to that part of ment. One can argue, perhaps, that Canada the rontinent north of the 26th parallel, which and some of the South American republics are nms from slightly north of Gympie on the similarly situated, but for the time being east coast due west, passing north of Charle­ Jet us routine ourselves to a comparison villc, south of Adavale, south of Alice Springs between these two countries-Australia and and slightly south of Carnarvon on the coast the U.S.A. The following table sets out the of Western Australia. That line divides progressive increases in population over 20- Australia into two almost equal parts, and I year periods from 1800 in both Australia think we can look upon anywhere north of it and the U.S.A.- as being in Northern Australia and anywhere Year. Australia. U.S.A. south of it as being in Southern Australia. 1800 5,217 5,308,843 The very act of developing Northern 1820 33,543 9,638,453 Australia will bring the increased popu­ 1840 190,408 17,069,453 lation that will be required for the 1860 1,145,585 31,443,371 whole of the remammg part of the continent. The small population of this 1880 2,231,531 50,155,783 country in comparison with its size is 1900 3,763,339 75,094,975 a very serious matter, specially in view of 1920 5,411,207 105,710,620 the many factors affecting population today, 130,000,000 not only in Australia but throughout the 1940 7,068,689 world. The most recent census of the popu­ (Estimate) lation that we have in Australia shows that These figures at first glance seem to suggest it amounts to 7,068,000 and that 6,668,500 that Australia makes a very poor showing in persons live in the southern part of Australia comparison with the United States of and only 383,000 in the northern part. Hon. America. That has largely been brought members will readily understand that the about by the fact that when the U.S.A. had 383,000 is a very small proportion of the over 5,000,000 people in 1800, we had only total population of this country. It is in 5,217, and a better comparison of the growth fact an unpopulated country because Aus- of population of the two nations is to be 356 1Vligmtion Policy. [ASSEMBLY.] Migration Policy. found in the percentage increases, which in alarming fartor in this period has been the 20-year periods have been:- decline in the birthrate. U.S.A. Australia. In 1860 the natural increase of population ,,-as 40 per 1,000 persons. In 1910 it wa~ Per cent. Per cent. 16.7 per 1,000 persons, considerably less thau 82 543 half the increase in 1860. Between 1910 and 77 468 1937 the rate again declined by half and 84 502 at the present time it is 8.3 per 1,000 or population. There has been a gradual 50 95 stepping-down during those periods. Even 49 68 hon. member in the House will recognise that 41 43 the present position is almost hopeless. If 31 we allow it to continue-and this has been 23 pointed out by statisticians who have studied . 1~11:. Macdonald: The increase in popula­ the n1atter-the indication is that in 30 years tion m U.S.A. was due to industrial develop· the population of this country will not only ment and putting land in occupation. not increase but will begin to decline. A clear indication to that effect comes Mr. COLLINS: That is true, but when from the northern part of Queensland, where we compare the percentage increases of that many districts that were relatively well popu­ nation with the Australian percentages we lated 40, 50, and 60 years ago, largely through see that ours are much the better. That is mining and subsequently pastoral and agri­ ~ue to factors similar to those that operated cultural development, have since declined. In m the U.S.A. The increase in Australia's the shires. of Croydon, Burke, C!oncurry, and pop_ulation up to the fourth period was stag­ Cook, wh1ch represent almost the ·whole of germg. It was brought about largely by the the northern part of Queensland, relatively discovery of gold in this country. Some very big cities once abounded and profitable busi­ r!ch fields were opened up and developed, but nesses existed, but those cities are todav •mce then these fields have been more or mere skeletons of their former greatness, less declining. On the whole however Aus- . ' . ' ' and the businesses have shrunk C9nsiderably. t ra I_1a s percentage mcreases in 20-year The population there now is only one person renods have been consistently higher than to 33 square miles. m the U.S.A. But a more or less alarming feature in these figures is that while we That is alarming. The reason for the today have a population unly a little greater movement of the population towards the than the U.S.A. had in 1800 the rate of southern parts of Australia is not hard to growth has declined from 543 per cent. to discover. Although rich mineral fields were 31 per cent., whereas the decline in U.S.A. distributed fairly evenly over the whole of has been from 82 per cent. to 23 per cent. ~us~ralia, those people who were naturally That in itself is serious enough but it also mclmed to agriculture settled in the parts has to be remembered that it has taken us where the climatic conditions were more or from 1788, when Australia was founded till less similar in character to those they had today to get a population of a mere 7 ooo' 000 left in the British Isles and Europe. The and_ the _Pr~sent population of North~rn Aus: rainfall there, too, was more or less evenlv traha wrthm the borders I outlined is only distributed, and those people naturally gravi­ 38~,000, or considerably less than the popu­ tated to conditions similar to those they had lation of the whole continent in 1860. In left, so that they could practise the same other words, it has taken Australia 94 years classes of agriculture as they had been prac­ to build up a population of 7,000,000, and tising; they took up the growing of various at the present rate of growth it will take a crops such as wheat, oats, and barley, and far greater time to build up a population of a sfieep- and cattle- raising-callings they knew mere 7,000,000 people in Northern Australia. something about and in which they could 1\;foreove;r, if the rate of progress were con­ readily put into operation the sam·e form of Sistent rt would be bad enough but it is agriculture as they practised in their home _:lropping year by year through lack of countries, and they have been very success­ rmmrgration and natural increase. This sets ful. They ha'\Te developed in the southern us a problem that has to be tackled in a part of Australia an agricultural economy dr~stic and determined way. The people of that is, I should say, equal in some instances tins country must recognise that if we are to that of the countries they left. I should going to be the owners and controllers of it say that Victoria today stands very high in the agricultural economy of the world and we shall have to do sumething very different is an outstanding example of what can be indeed in the next 50 years fro~ what we done under suitable conditions of climate, have done in the past 100 years. I do not soil, irrigation, and land. want to . belabo;rr. the point and weary the House wrth stahstrcs, but as a starting point I think we should review the position of we m~st find out what our rate of develop­ Northern Australia and ask ourselves this ment rs; we must understand the position question: is it capable of carrying a large before we can improve it. population~ If it is not, anything we say on this motion is of very little value. How­ The rapid decline of increase as I have ever, when you consider the rich lands we stated, 'has been from 543 per ~ent. in the have in the North-and nobody who has any first 20 years of the 19th century to 31 per knowledge of country can deny that they are cent. in the last 20 years. Another very rich-I think you must concede that we have Migration Policy. [7 SEPTEMBER.] Migration Polic'!J. 357

equal if not greater possibilities of carrying Today we grow peanuts and potatoes. Cotton­ a large population than the southern part growing is nearly all done in the northern of Australia. We have land of equal quality. part of Australia. The timber industry has Throughout the north of Queensland, while been one of the principal stand-bys since there is some poor land-and there is some the early settlement of North Queensland. in every State-we l1ave so!ne of the richest Pig-raising and bacon curing are flourishing. land in the Commonwealth. We have land Citrus fruits of all kinds abound. Dairying, with good and regular rainfall in many maize-growing and lucerne-growing have pl:lces. The rainfall occurs largely at a been carried on for years and as far as I different time of the year fro!ll that of the know the dairying industry of North Queens­ South. As we go further north we get into land is the only dairying industry estab­ a land of summer rains. As we go further lished in any part of the tropics. It is south the season gradually moves until in carried on successfully between the equator Victoria the principal fall is in the winter. and the tropic of Capricorn and I do not That means a very cold winter in Victoria. know of any other except perhaps that in In Queensland, the rainfall in the summer Brazil, which is not an export industry like helps to alleviate to a great measure the that in North Queensland. Tropical fruits extreme heat that would otherwise have to of all kinds not only exist in North Queens­ be endured. land but grow particularly well there. Any The climatic conditions in North Queens­ person who has travelled North Queensland land are such that there is no question that must have seen mandarins, oranges, bananas, white people can live there successfully. pineapples and similar fruits and recognised You have only to take the cities along the that they grow there just as well as in any northern coast, such as Rockhampton, l'.1:ac­ other part of the State and often consider­ kay, Townsville, and Caims, to realise that. ably better. I contend that the children there are just It is not only agricultural and. pastoral as healthy as those anywhere else and if industries that will be found m North one wishes to make a more careful examina­ Queensland. We have nlinerals such as coal, tion one will find that the death rate there gold, silver, copper, lead. zinc, tin, wolfram, is not only not higher but lower than in the molybdenite and mica. They do not merely southern part ·of Australia. A comparison ex1st but have all been mined in commercial as to longevity gives just the same result. quantities and I should say that the largest We have developed the sugar industry in copper field in Australia today exists north North Queensland, in which hard physical of the line I have mentioned. Cloncurry h work is done out in the sun during the hottest one of the richest copper districts in Aus­ periods of summer. White labour has success­ tralia and I have it on very good information fully created that industry which, as far as that in Central Australia there are, as yet I know it, is one of the most efficient in untouched because of transport difficulties, any part of the world. It certainly is the some of the richest copper lodes _ever found only sugar industry established by a purely in Australia. We have some of the richest white population. Surely that is an argu· silver-lead and zinc mines in the world estab­ ment that the clim·atic conditions are good! lished and carrying on very successfully at Moreover, sugar-cane is a crop that requirea Mount Isa. Men are working in these mines a large rainfall and I should say that over in the heat of the tropics, and the health of 90 per cent. of that crop is grown without these people is j nst as good as that of those any recourse to irrigation. That shows that anywhere else. During ·the last war and to the rainfall is good, otherwise we could not a great extent in this we have produced most grow the crop, which requires large quan­ of the wolfram and molybdenite used for war tities and regular falls of rain. purposes and there is probably a greater Mr. llfacdonald: Cane is a water grass. quantity of these metals still there than the volume already mined. Mica is another llfr. COLLINS: Yes. That shows we have mineral that is found in Central Australia the climatic conditions and the raiRfall. and in a field north of Cooktown. One may call cane a water grass but it is The central Australian mica fields are certainly not a swamp grass. Under some supplying the whole of our mica, which is a conditions it will die and it has been our very essential industrial requirement in Aus­ experience that if there is too much rain tralia today. As time goes on, it is possible and the cane is in water for three or four that we shall build up an export market days it is entirely destroyed. for it. Not only the cane industry but a good Then there are many crops that we have cross-section of other industries carried on grown but are for various reasons not being throughout Australia have been successfully grown at the moment. One of the principal established in North Queensland. They are of these is rice. In the northern part of not merely existent but are being carried on Australia, round the shores of the Gulf of just as profitably as in other parts of the Carpentaria where the land is flooded every continent. I will enumerate those industries, year, somewhat as it is in India, we have which are but a few of those that could be one of the biggest ricefields in the world. carried on. The principal industry in the Rice ~an be and has been grown there. As a early stages of development, I think~ was matter of fact, wild rice is growing there now cattle-raising which followed the mining and has been growing there ever since we industry. From that we got the wool-growing have known Australia. Then there are such industry and later on the sugar industry. crops as jute and sisal fibre which grow 358 Migration Policy [ASSEMBLY.] Migration Policy. naturally on the plains of the Burdekin and same zone; the country and rainfall are in the estuaries of the rivers that empty into similar. If they can carry approximately the Gulf, but so far no attempt has been 400,000,000 people in India-and that country made to· use them, despite the fact that we is smaller than the northern part of Aus· import over £3,000,000 worth of jute and tralia-surely we are not going to say that fibre goods each year from India. We could this country is not capable of carrying at grow those crops as easily here. It may be any rate ten times its present population~ said that labour conditions are different, but we are growing rice on the Murrumbidgee I am not going to suggest how many people and exporting it to China at times, and if we can carry in this country as I realise that that can be done with one crop I see no any estimate would be simply futile. What reason why it cannot be done with others. we have to consider is not the total number By that means we could build up an export of people we can carry but the need to carry trade with countries that are able to take sufficient to enable us to defend the country very little from us now. Then, the rubber adequately. industry is capable of development here. I am not one of those who are keen on The Barrier Reef abounds in fish and it having too many people or far more than could become an important industry in Aus· you can adequately cater for. If I thought tralia if we had the population, the enthusiasm that in moving this motion and implementing and enterprise to engage in it. it would have the effect of lowering the standard of living in this country I should Mr. Muller: You have not got a horse­ not be speaking as I am, nor should I do so shoe industry up there, have you f if I thought bringing people here would throw out of work those already here. But we know Mr. COLLINS: Unfortunately we have that in those countries where the population not, and the hon. member knows the reason has gone on increasing they have enjoyed why. He knows that when representations prosperous periods. The United States of were made overseas the supporters of his America is an outstanding example. During party did all they could to show why we the period in which her population was should not have the money to establish a increasing right up until 1920, when she steel works at Bowen. The horseshoe brings imposed the ban on migration, she enjoyed good luck as a general rule, but in this case an unexampled era of prosperity. The same it brings bad luck to the hon. member. thing happened in Britain in the industrial Irrigation and hydro-electricity may be age-when the population increased rapidly developed on the same scale as the industries from 1800 to 1900 there was great pros· I have mentioned. Irrigation must play a perity in that country. We have seen the big part in the development of northern Aus· same thing in our own country. As our popu· tralia and with irrigation goes the generation lation increased our industries expanded. So of hydro-electric power. That industry is more people would be encouraged to come already established and is expanding rapidly here by capable administration of govern· in the North but it cannot keep pace with ments and capable development of our land the 1;equirements of an increase in popula· and industries, all of which lead to a greater tion. security and contentment. I mention these things to show the enor· The time has arrived when we must decide mons field on which we have to work in the how we are to bring about this necessary future for the development of this country. expansion in industry. The first point is not All we need is the courage to go ahead and necessarily to embark upon new experimental do the right thing for the country of which industries but rather to look after the indus· we are the custodians at the moment. tries we already have, those that are well The northern part of Australia is no mean established, doing well and employing a great area. It is a tremendous country. It is a number of people. We should first consider country that is greater than the United how we can improve and expand existing Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy Spain industries and having done that perhaps we Roumania, Finland, and Poland, put togethe/ can explore new ground to see what can be I am speaking now of Northern Australia done by the establishment of new industries. only, not the whole of the continent. It is I believe that the wool industry is capable half the size of the U.S.A., one of the most of tremendous expansion not only in the populous and progressive countries in the number of sheep that can be carried, not only world today. We have the same possibilities in the quantity of wool that can be produced, in the northern part of Australia as they but in other directions too. Our graziers have in the U.S.A. Many might ask, "What and sheep-breeders have done excellent work is the use of comparing Australia with those in doubling the wool-carrying capacity of the European countries where they have a cool, sheep but our sheep numbers have not mild climate, and where they have a reason· increased as fast as they should have done. I believe that difficulty can be overcome but ably certain rainfall throughout the year~" I do not propose that we should carry up how can we increase the value of our wool~ to 600 persons to the square mile as they do I think that is the starting point. Many in some of those over-populated places, but people will say that we should manufacture can anyone say that the northern part of all our wool here and I believe that ulti· Australia is not as rich as some tropical mately that will come about. However, at countries such as India, China, Malaya, and present there is no hope of our manufactur· Eastern Asia' It is situated in much the ing the whole of our wool into cloth but I Migration Polic'!J. [7 SEPTEMBER.] Migra.tion Policy. 359 belie,e that we can go a long way towards the manufacture of much of it that will even­ Then he goes on to say in more detail how tually go into our own industries. In the this system can be improved on. I do not ?J-eantime let u~ carry ~ut the scouring, clean­ intend to weary the House by reading all he mg and combmg of It so that it may be says, but this small extract is specially inter· exported as tops rather than as greasy wool. esting- Very recently I read a particularly good book ' 'Blue prints should be ready for all on the subject entitled " ..Wool" by W. H. the machinery required for this plan, so Mather. To those people who have not that when the war is over our munition already read it I recommend that they should workers can be set to work on this 500,000 do s0. Ineidentally let me tell them it costs tons of plant. I have all particulars only ~s. 6d. Mr. Mather is an Australia. He respecting the numbers of wool-scouring was sent as a lad to England to be educated. machines, dryers, etc., which will be His uncle was in the wool trade in Bradford required, and can supply the details for in Yorkshire. horsepower, water, size and design of fac· (Time, on motion of Mr. Fan·ell, tories, and other essentials. Here are a extended.) few of the benefits that would be gained each year from establishing this plant:- ~I:r. COLLINS: I thank the House for the courtesy extended to me. Mr. Mather £ ber>me a working man in the industrv and Sa ,·ings on market fluc- tlten a general manager of woollen ·mills. tuations 10,000,000 From there he gravitated to a position in Annual wages bill 52,000,000 which he was buying Australian and African Increase in wool cheque 12,000,000 wools for the British wool trade. He was Savings in railing and later seconded to the Federal Government shipping charges on to report and advise on the wool position in wool, meat, sheepskins, Australia and the practicability of estab­ etc. 10,000,000 liahing new appraisement centres. He can be looked upon as a man who has had a practi­ Savings during droughts 5,000,000 cal knowledge not only of the wool industry Increased returns for but of the wool spinning industry. This is livestock to primary what he had to say-this is a very brief producers 4,000,000 extract from his many statements-on this Savings from woolpacks nutter- and marketing expenses, etc. 3,000,000 '' What a tremendous sum of money is wasted each season by shipping all this Reduction in cost of meat 2,000,000 dirt, dust, earth, burr, seed, and grease to housewives all around the world! The remedy does Estimates average profits not rest in scouring this wool and shipping on wool yarn industry, it in the scoured state, because there are for distribution be­ many technical matters which regulate such tween producers, em­ a procedure. Instead we must treat all ployers and people, our wool clip, together with 100 per cent. after allowing for all of our sheepskins, in factories erected in contingencies 10,000,000 approved country centres; fellmonger the skins, scour all the wool; then card, comb Total .. £108,000,000 '' and spin all the clean scoured wool into wool yarns, under the woollen, worsted and Australia could benefit to the extent of hosiery systems, into creams, solids and that £108,000,000 without growing one more mixtures-and so become the controlling sheep or hindering our wool export trade in wool yarn market of the world. any way, simply by handling what we have ' 'Those who think that this scheme will at the present time in a more efficient and disturb their source of income, upset their better way. Mr. Mather goes on to point dividends, prevent them from buying cheap out that the industry could be carried out not lots of wool and sheepskins, will no doubt in our popular centres on the seaboard, but oppose it, although all thinking people right inland at the rail heads where the wool must realise that it should, have been is assembled for transportation to the sea­ adopted more than a generation ago. In board. Factories could probably be estab­ the succeeding chapters I shall give detailed lished at Julia Creek, Hughenden, Winton, proposals for organising, financing and Longreach, Blackall, Charleville, and Roma. controlling such a plan. All these inland towns would then give employment to hundreds and thousands of "~nder the present system (despite the people. Just fancy what it would mean to quality of the excellent show floors) the have a wages bill of £1:•2,000,000 distributed returns to the growers are, when averaged throughout the whole inland of Australia, and up, insufficient to provide even decent liv­ what a revision of the position existing toda~· ing conditions. The majority of wool­ it would bring about! Our young people, growers, fat lamb raisers, and mixed far­ instead of leaving those western centres to mers owe money to the banks or brokers go to the more popular centres on the coast or country storekeepers-or to all three. where industry at present exists, could be Therefore the system must be improved employed in their home towns, the places to on.'' which the industry belongs. 360 lvligration Policy. [ASSEMBLY.] Migration Policy.

At 11.58 a.m., on those stations. ca·n We wonder that nu development is going on when such condi­ Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba) relieved Mr. Speaker in the chair. tions exist~ The present conditions prewmt those people from reaping the rewards of Mr.. COLLINS: Many people will ask their industry and their ent-erprise. '':hat 1s the future of the wool industry in The dairying industry, too, could be greatly v1ew of the competition of synthetics. Mr. improved. Y on have only to compare t;he ~father has ~one very carefully into the sub­ production per cow in ·Q,ueensland with that JeCt. He pomts out that synthetics need not in Victoria to see how we can easily increase worry us at all, as one industry sh~mld be the production of butter in Queensland with­ complementary to the other. out milking another cow or farming another He points out in his book that the future acre of land. By farming the land differently development of the wool industry will ha com­ we can increase production by 50 per cent. bined with that of artificial silk in order to make a better artificial silk and lighter The timber industry and all the other indus­ and better clothing. By combining those two tries I hav·e mentioned can be expanded in industries you are going to don ble the value much the same way. A railway line should of the wool industry, you are going to control be built to connect Forsayth with Croydon­ the fine wool industry of the world. As I a distance of 120 miles-a·nother one out into said earlier, I think every hon. member should the Gulf country for 100 miles, and another give consideration to such statements as are one into the Peninsula. Those lines would contained in that book. They are not made give access to grazi-ers with about 1,500,000 by a man who does not know anything cattle and would enable them almost to double about it. I am not going to profess that I their present herds. The increased price for am a11 expert in these matters but I am their stock woul(l pay for the c®st of the willing to be guided by a man who has a railways. Those railways were started man;' life-long experience of them. He has been yea·rs ago but through lack of enterprise an

''In wet seasons, millions of gallons of these things, we have a market rigl1t at onr water have been allowed to run heedlessly front door, the markets of Eoast Asia, which to waste, scouring away our fertile valleys are likely to consume all we have to sell­ and creating erosion problems that are if we develop those markets. I take the becoming increasingly grave. opportunity of quoting from the Brisbane ''Courier-Mail'' of 11 .July 1944- "If a tenth of the water that falls in normal wet seasons had been stored in ,' 'The U.S.A. is entering on an ''era of dams and weirs there would today be ample the Pacific'' after the war,' said the Vice­ water for all our stock requirements. President (Mr. Henry Wallace) in a broad­ cast after a seven weeks' visit to China ''Although progressive graziers and and Siberia. farmers have provided to some extent for '' 'One of the main areas of development their individual requirements, co-operative and new enterprise in investment and trade planning by the rur,al indust;ries, as a will be the "New World" of the North whole has been markedly absent; there has Pacific and Eastern Asia,' he said. been a tendency to look to the Government and expect it to do everything.'' '' 'Great changes have occurred in Eastern Asia in the last 20 years. The That is typical of the attitude of many U.S.A., Britain and Russia will have pro­ people. But we have an example to guide found interest in the rapid and peaceful us. The State of Victoria, after spending change of the area to more fruitful use approximately £25,000,000 or £26,000,000 on of its natural and human resources.' irrigation, is now to spend a further " 'The Chinese,' he added, 'were anxious £25,000,000. If this can be done in the to enter the machine age, but Chinese South, why can it not be done here~ Mr. industry must first be modernised and the Nelson .Johnson, a man with perhaps a people trained to industrialisation.' superficial knowledge of Northem Australia, but who has a particularly good knowledge '' 'This was in turn dependent on of the U.S.A. and industries there, is reported agrarian reform·, since China was pre­ as follows in a newspaper article:- dominantly a nation of farmers.' '' '' Great Future in Meat Industry. Mr. Henry Wallace is Vice-President of the ''Adelaide, Sunday.-There was a big U.S.A .. and a man whose views should be future for Northern Australia as a meat heeded. He is interested in agriculture and producing area, the U.S. Resident Minister has one of the largest agricultural businesses to Australia (Mr. Nelson .Johnson) said in the U.S.A. Mr. Wendell Willkie, who tonight. recently '\\as runner-up for the Presidency of the United States, made similar statements "Wyndham (W.A.) should become a after visiting those countries. large city, with m·eat-packi.ng houses vying with Chicago's, he added. It is our job as a State to work very closely "Mr. .J ohnson arrived in Adelaide tonight with other Governments in Australia in carry­ after having spent three weeks in the North ing out this programme. As time goes on with the Administrator of the Northern States and Federal Governments should be Territory (Mr. Abbott). willing to combine in sending trade repre­ sentatives to China, .Java, India and the '' 'I foresee a railway running from Latin countries of South America in order Mount Isa through Newcastle Waters to to develop our trade. This can be done in Wyndham,' he said tonight. the same way as we sent trade representatives '' 'Another railway should run from to the United Kingdom, Canada, and the Newcastle Waters through to the Gulf of U.S.A. Those representatives must work in Carpentaria.' '' close co-opellllA:ion with the Government and private enterprise in developing this northern Perhaps that is a superficial view, but it is part of Australia. the view of a man who at least knows indus­ try and its capabilities, and he prophesied The question arises of the source of our t.ltat what has been done in America can be new population. It is not easy to gain done to the same extent here if we have the migrants from those countries in which live will, courage and foresight to do it. men and women most suitable for our pur­ pose. By far the best type of migrant would I know it is idle to speak of producing he the people of the British Isles, but it is all these things, unless there is a market difficult to see how we can attract them for them. But when we began producing meat here in any great numbers. The people there in this country, we did not worry very much are mainly industrialists, and we need to about marketing, and the market has been attract, as far as we can, people who are expanding all the time. Immediate markets land-minded, who will till the soil, as those for Australian produce are now assured. who have developed the country so far have Europe, torn and devastated by war, will done. provide us with a market for years to come for our exportable surpluses of such things One disturbing fact is that in certain as wool, butter, and timber, which will be quarters there seems to be a desire to break required in unlimited quantities. After that, down the White Australia policy. This would we shall still have a big market in Australia be fatal. We are the last and only rem·ain­ for man;· things that today are imported. ing bulwark in the Pacific of the white races. If we can take any notice of world-travelled We can develop a clean white race if we are people, of men Yl:ho have a knowledge of determined to do so. When I say this I am 362 Migration Policy. [ASSEMBLY.] Migration Policy.

not speaking in any derogatory manner about those necessary measures for the future our Allies the Chinese, who during the last d·efence of our country. seven ye;,rs have fought the most terrific There are many aspects of the problem. war in which they have ever been engaged. The mover of the motion ha's dealt in a very I would not insult them by saying they are exhaustive and a very praiseworthy manner not intelligent enough to mix with us because, with many of the points that can be raised in man for man and education for education, a discussion of this great problem. He has they are just as intelligent as we are, but ref·erred in detail to the areas in the northern I do contend that the Oriental outlook on parts of Australia and although I as a mem­ life is not such that our men and women ber of this Parliament do not represent a can inter-marry with those coloured peoples northern constituency and although I cannot without bringing about a deterioration in speak with a first-hand knowledge pf northern the race. History through the ages has shown conditions, still, as one who has endeavoured that coloureds and whites cannot be mixed to take an intelligent interest in the history successfully if it is desired to improve moral and progress of Australia, I have an appreeia­ and ethical standards. We do not want a tion of at least some of the problems that black population in this country. Some confront us. Without defining any exact months ago it was stated at a meeting of boundaries we can say that the northern part the Anglican Synod in Brisbane that it was of Australia is the Northern Territory and doubtful if we could maintain a White Aus­ substantial parts of Western Australia and tralia, and it was suggested that we should Queensland and that parts of our State and of invite people to come here from India, China Western Australia are closely linked with the and some of the other countries peopled by Northern T·erritory by geographical con­ coloured races. I repeat that in my opinion siderations. that would be fatal. We do not want to happen here what we have already seen In order to get some appreciation o,f the happen in the Unified Sa:tes, where racial position let us make a few observation& on riots between the whites and the blacks have the history of the Northern Territory. We caused a considerable amount of trouble, and find that it was annexed by letters patent by where it would seem that this friction will the South Australian Government in 1863 eventually lead to civil war in that country. and from then on many attempts to develop Let us go on with the great work we are and settle the area were made by Govern­ doing, but let us do it faster and better ments but all proV'ed a dismal failure. It is very than we have in the past. Let us all get interesting, more than interesting I should together on this one mighty problem. say, to recall at this stage that away back in 1877 the Government of South Australia Hon. Members: Hear, hear! made very earnest entreaties to the Govern­ ment of Japan to send out Japanese to Mr. HILTON (Car~arvon) (12.18 a.m.): colonise the Northern Territory. It is per­ It is with a great deal of pleasure tha.t I haps very fortunate for us, in the light of rise to second this very important motwn, existing circumstances, that these negotia­ which makes a definite appeal to every citizen tions broke down. They were on the point of of this Commonwealth. The subject matter being successful. The South Australian of the motion calls for immediate attention Government had gone so far as to pay the and early action on the part of all eoncerued. expenses of bringing Japanese to this country and giving them a free title to large areas of We have learned at least one lesson from land so that they would deV'elop the Northern the war-the serious cons•aquences of not Territory, but owing to internal trouble in being prepared to meet an invader. The pur­ Japan the negotiations broke down and it is pose of the motion is to direct a'ttention in a very fortunate indeed for us tha't they did. particular manner not only to the need for However, after many abortive attempts by the adequate defence of Australia but also the South Australian Government to develop to the development of the continent in general. the Northern Territory the area was after So far as the ddence aspect is concerned negotiations taken over by the Commonwealth we have, as I have said, learned a very bitter Government in 1911 upon the payment of lesson indeed and although some things have £3,931,000 to the South Australian Govern­ been done to ensure the defenc·e of northern ment. Australia still we cannot for one moment rest Furthermore, the Commonwealth paid satisfied with the comparatively small amount £2,239,000 for existing railways. Very little that has been done. 'If we do not settle the development has been achieved by the Com­ northern part of Australia with a virile people monwealth Government since they took over and de-velop its resources we must realise that country. That fact causes one to specu­ that it will always be the object of the late on whether the potentialities of that envious eyes of the millions of Asiatics who area are as great as we have been led by when the opportunity offers may invade this many men to believe. I have taken a little country. We realise very well indeed that trouble to delve into this question, and one the coloured races, no less than we, can employ can get some very interesting information in verv effectively the means of modern warfare the process. On making a summary of many made available to them by science. The sources we find that there are immense tracts cherished policy of a White Australia has to of valuable land there awaiting the applica­ be maintained. We must take stock of our tion of our energies and attention. It is position and when the war is over set about perhaps interesting to recall an opinion the task of developing Australia and popu­ expressed by a body of Americans who came lating it, and of course we must take also to this country seeking land in 1912. I do Migration Policy. [7 SEFTEMBER.j Migration Policy. 363 not know the whole of the history of their to give an opinion on land and land matters subsequent endeavours, , but they were to make investigations. 'I' hey f umished ~ men in a position to make an appreciation very valuable :eport_ indeed. That report, of of Australia as they could make valuable ~ourse! was wntten m the light of then exist­ comparisons with the land in the United mg cucumstances. Perhaps all that they States of America. Here is an extract from have said and perhaps all the recommenda­ their report- tions they made cannot be accepted in their entirety today, but they do give a very clear '' Here is a country of enormous areas of idea of the potentialities of the Northern land capable of intensive cultivation stand­ Territory, as to whose development they made ing idle and empty. In our trip through some very useful suggestions. the Victoria Tablelands we covered mile after mile of splendid pastoral country To my mind it is abundantly clear that where cattle, whose equal it would be hard the reasons for failure to develop Northern to find, were running in a wild state. Australia are two. They are, first, lack of Unlike other parts of Australia, the rain· adequate transport and isolation of the people fall is certain and abundant, starting with and, second, the dreadful economic back­ 50 inches on the coast and diminishing to ground. When people can obtain a living in 24 inches at Wave Hill far into the interior. the more beneficent areas round the coast, 'rho Santa Clara Valley, admittedly the it naturally follows that they are not going garden of California, has only 12 inches. to endure the hardships of living in a tropical Some of the stations had small gardens climate and exerting themselves without pro­ where the finest vegetables and fruit grew. mise of reasonable economic reward. As no The high interior lands are ideal sheep definite action has been taken to eliminate country and also eminently adapted for these retarding factors in Northern Australia horse-breeding. At Wave Hill, we saw a we must consider these problems when w~ muster of 400 head; they were certainly talk about the possibility of doing something splendid types of horses bred without sys­ tangible for this land. tematic effort and inbred for years; they run wild over the plains. From a cattle­ Since the beginning of this war, of course, man's point of view, this country is far a great deal has been done towards providing ahead of the United States, where in the better transport facilities. Excellent roads winter, mortality amongst stock is great. have been constructed but they are not suffi­ It is hard for anyone who has not seen cient. More work has to be done in that these Tablelands to realise their extent and direction. Aerial transport has improved value. On the lower coastal belt are bound­ immensely and will be another big factor in less alluvial plains, where the grass is ever­ the development of the territory. green, the climate is warm, and buffaloes Further, we must pay due attention to pro­ wallow in the swamps. This is indeed the viding the amenities that should be associated country for rice and sugarcane. It reminds with life in tropical areas. In these days one of nothing so much as the Mississippi of enlightenment and scientific progress it delta.'' should be within our capabilities to provide them. We know that the debilitation caused That was the opinion expressed by a number by living in the tropics affects women more of Americans who travelled through that than men, and unless we can induce our country in 1912. women to go there and rear families we are Mr. Aikens: It is also the opinion of not going to be successful in populating that every man who has been through that territory. But there is an answer to those country. disadvantages. To my mind, one of the first things to which consideration should be given Mr. HILTON: I quite agree with that. is the provision of air-cooling in all houses I have not had the opportunity of travelling erected in those regions. In other parts of through that land but from the studies I the world people have to heat their houses have made I am convinced that potentiali· for the greater part of the year. It is ties exist there. If we want verification of economic for them to do so. If in many of the fact we can also refer to the work of the rich parts of the world the people find Griffith Taylor, Professor of Geography in it is wise to warm their houses artificially the University of Toronto, formerly physio­ for the greater part of the year, likewise it grapher in the Commonwealth Weather Ser­ is wise and economically possible to provide ;ice, and Professor of Geography in the similar amenities in the tropical parts of University of Sydney. He writes in a very Australia. careful strain of the possibilities of settle­ Mr. Ingram: It would be cheaper. ment 'in Australia and the population that Australia will ultimately be able to carry. Mr. HILTON: It would be cheaper, as He has expressed a very strong opinion, and my colleague remarks. It would be cheaper has proved it by the science of geography, to cool houses than to heat them. that ample opportunities exist in those areas for the settlement of a large number of Mr. Macdonald: Wrong! people. Mr. HILT ON: The hon. member for Again, in 1937 the Commonwealth Govern­ Stanley says, ''Wrong.'' With the advance ment, becoming alarmed at the stagnant state of science these things are quite possible. I or de.-clopment of the area, appointed a Royal have seen some plants designed for this pur­ Commission consisting of Mr. W. L. Payne pose. In certain areas of Queensland some and Mr. J. W. Fletcher, two men competent men have equipped their homes with very 364 Migration Policy. [ASSEMBLY.l Jlfigration Policy. useful plants at a relatively small cost for position. The whole of our future prosperity the purpose of air-conditioning their houses. will hinge on an adequate balance of popula­ They have been very successful, and if such tion between primary and secondary industries units , were produced in large numbers the and that leads us to the great problem of cost of production would of course be reduced. population to which the mover made reference. In any case, irrespective of the cost are you going to allow such consideration; to pre­ There are many aspects to this question of vent us from providing these amenities, and population and it would be impossible to deal thereby prevent adequately populating these effectively with them all in the brief time parts of our country? Definitely, as I said allotted to me, but it will be interesting to the other day, we shall have to relate our the House to have some figures of the natural standards to the demands of the times. Every increase in the white population of the house built in the tropical portion of Queens­ world because when the position in that land can be air-conditioned. Units can be direction is realised it will also be realised provided for the purpose and they must be that we must pay due recognition to provided if we are to pursue and maintain the urgency of the position in Australia and our policy of White Australia. make the earliest move possible to obtain large numbers of suitable migrants. The Mr. Power: We can provide money for latest statistics available in regard to the destruction. natural increase in population of the white Mr. HILT ON: As the hon. member for races show that there has been a marked Baroona remarks, we can provide money for decline. The Commonwealth Government destruction. It was necessary to find enor­ Statistician has given the latest figures in the mous sums of money to prosecute this war Commonwealth Year Book of 1939. In all the and thus ensure our survival; is it not States of Australia and in New Zealand a logical to say that we must find enormous great decrease in the natural increase per sums of money to populate our country and thousand of population is shown in this table. thus ensure the continuance of our survival~ Natural Increase. Economic problems, of course, will have to 1909-13. 1937. be considered, and they will have to be dealt with in the light of existing circumstances Tasmania 18.8 11.2 and with due regard to the standards, I hope, Queensland 17.9 10.2 of an enlightened post-war order. W estm·n Australia 18.1 10 The mover of the motion dealt at length with New South Wales 18 8.3 the various primary industries that can be New Zealand 17.1 8.2 established in the northern part of Australia. Australia 16.7 8 They were numerous and I have no intention South Australia 16.8 6.3 of going into further details, but there is, as Victoria 13.6 6 I recently said in this House, an aspect of primary production that we must recognise. We find the same position in the countries of I make this point because it forces us to E•urope. The Russian figures are given only realise that apart from primary production we for the period from 1926 to 1930 and there shall have to increase our secondary industries is an increase there of from 15.8 to 17.4. In to provide a better balance of population, as the Netherlands there is a decrease of 4. The it were, for the purpose of increasing our figures for Spain go only as far as 1935 and home markets. The trend of primary exports they show an increase. The figures for from this country to Great Britain and other Italy, Denmark, Germany, Norway, Northern countries is interesting and some figures com­ Ireland, Scotland, Eire, Finland, Sweden, piled by our statisticians merit careful study. Belgium and France all show a serious We realise that there is the ever-present pos­ diminution of population. sibility that Australia's primary industries In the past, apart from British stock, we will meet very serious competition after the have relied on certain countries in Europe war. 'rhe values of primary production from to provide us with large numbers of migrants. the year 1928-29 to 1937-38 in the main show Can we reasonably anticipate any help from a decline. As I stated recently, we shall have those directions in the future~ I hold the to compete very vigorously in the markets of view that whilst there may be some possibili­ the world with our primary exports, especially ties we shall have to take early action to until we • can create a greater home market. I attract migrants here. I realise that as soon will not deal with primary production for as the war is over many people who have export at this stage but I propose to adduce endured the ravages of two wars in their some argument as to the dire necessity 'for own countries· will perhaps seek to come to increasing our population so that the home the great free open spaces of Australia, but market will be increased. as against that, there is the big task of recon­ As I have said, there has been a steady struction awaiting the people of the various decline in the value received for our products European countries, and it would seem, there­ overseas since 1928-29 and I hold the view fore, that we cannot expect the free flow of that when the war is over there will be a migrants that we had in the past. Australia's period of great boom for several years, and experience has been that the majority of her 1 hope we shall enjoy to a large measure the migrants from European countries came from prosperity associated with it, but the time Germany and Italy. I realise that a.t the will come when the needs of war­ present time racial feelings are strained impoverished countries will be satisfied and because of the mad despotism of a handful tl!cn we shall be faced with a rather difficult of dictators in Europe, but as an idealist l Migration Policy. [7 SEPTEMBER.] Migration Policy. 365 think that when the heat and hatred of war I belieYe very positively that there are have died down we shall live again in peace different aspects of this problem. I subscribe and harmony with these peoples, especially to the view that the moral aspect should be after their political constitutions have been paramount and I heartily endorse many of rebuilt and they are once again enjoying the the statements that have been made by realisation of the democratic ideal so greatly responsible men in our community as to cherished throughout the British Common­ the grave moral menace associated with wealth of Nations. We should not set our­ this problem. I realise that many people hold selves against receiving suitable migrants the view that it is a purely economic one. from Italy, Germany or any European No Government, of course, can pass any legis­ country. The position in Australia is so lation or take any action that will actually serious that as soon as it is possible to do so compel people to increase as nature intended we should make urgent overtures to those but Governments can by giving proper atten­ countries, but in the first instance we should tion to the economic factors encourage the make approach€8 to the Government of Great people to do so. It is significant that if the Britain to ensure all possible co-operation natural rate of population that obtained in from them in creating a flow of British Australia up to 1929 had been maintained migrants to this country. Of cour~e, here from then to the present we should have had again we cannot expect the flow that we over 1,000,000 more boys and girls in this experienced in bygone years. The figures show country than we have now. Recently the that the population of Great Britain has Federal Minister for Health, Senator declined considerably. The ravages of war Fraser, made the statement that Australia was have aggravated the position and authoritative losing 30,000 children a year from prevent­ opinions have been expressed in Britain to able causes, including abortion. I think the the effect that she will not be able to spare time has come when public attention should many of her people to help us populate this be focused on this great question more country. directly and forcibly than ever before. The I strongly support the suggestion that the writing is very positively on the wall. Many Commonwealth Government make the earliest statements have been made by prominent men possible approaches to not only Great Britain and by eminent politicians in Great Britain, but the other countries of the white races with Australia and other countries on this subject a view to having them encourage their peoplr and we know from all the evidence available to come here. Further, I support the polic·y to us that unless the white races are prepared of inviting our friends and Allies, the to do their part to live a natural life, as we Americans, to come here if they so desire. might put it, the time is not very far distant America has done great work in developing when we shall have to capitulate to the her own country, and because of the closer coloul'ed raees. degree of friendship that now exists between Apart from the moral aspect, the economic the U.S. and this country we can look forward aspect of the question is a very serious one perhaps to a reasonable flow of Americans and so I urge that in considering the future to Australia. population of thi~ country the Commonwealth Government should pay further attention to ~Ir. Nicklin: It is the reverse lease­ that important subject-child endowment. lend at the moment. There is one bright aspect of the whole sad story of our declining population and it is lUr. HILT ON: That may be so. Many that within the last 12 months, or within of the lasses who would perhaps have been recent times since the advent of child the mothers of future Australians are making endowment, there has been some improvement their way to America, but I think that we in our population, but we want to ensure that can balance things up. We should not be that improvement is maintained and Australians if we could not do that. By the increased. Therefore, the economic aspect of circumstances, which arise as a direct result the problem will have to receive favourable of war, the channels of intercourse between consideration. I strongly urge that there U.S. and Australia have been opened very should be a very liberal extension of child wide indeed, and in all sincerity I say that endowment so that the people who desire to we can extend the hand of welcome to those rear their families should not be continually Americans who may be desirous of coming burdened with the economic fear associated to this country, bringing their capital with with what generally speaking has not been a them and helping us to make Australi:t the living wage for the family man throughout bulwark of the white races in the Pacific. Australia in past years. There are other aspects of the population The housing problem is also a very urgent question and perhaps it is fitting that I one and one directly associated with the popu­ should make some direct reference to them. lating of this country. We should be in great It is significant that at the present time this difficulties if we invited suitable immigrants subject is exercising the minds of all our to this country and then found that we were citizens. In the metropolitan Press we find not able to provide houses even for our own that opinions are being sought from people people. If we are to attract people here we as to the reason for the decline in the popu­ should at least be able to offer suitable lation and what should be done to increase housing to them and so we must have the it. The Federal Government, through the economic order in this country so well National Health Council, are making search­ arranged that there will be ample homes avail­ ing investigations into the reasons for the able for the people at the earliest possible alarming decrease in our natural population. moment. 366 Migration Policy. [ASSEMBLY.J Elections Acts Amendment Bill.

Generally, we must so arrange our social INCOME TAX AND SUCCESSION AND and economic conditions that people who come PROBATE DUTIES . (SAILORS, here and wish to settle here with their families SOLDIERS, AND MEMBERS OF THE will be able to do so without the great fear AIR FORCE) EXEMPTION ACTS of economic insecurity continually hanging AMENDMENT BILL. over them. All those questions are intimately associated with the question of population. INITIATION. As I said, we are faced with the fa'ct that unless someth~ng really effective is done in Hon. E. M. HANLON (Ithaca-Treas­ the near future, the writing is on the wall. urer) : I move- The words of Oliver Goldsmith, written '' That the House will, at its next sitting, many years ago, can be aptly applied to this resolve itself into a Committee of the and other countries as well at the present Whole to consider of the desirableness of time- introducing a Bill to amend the Income Tax " Ill fares the land, to hastening ills a and Suc0ession and Probate Duties (Sailors, prey, Soldiers, and Members of the Air Force) Exemption Acts, 1940 to 1942, in a certain Where wealth accumulates, and men particular.'' decay." Motion agreed to. I recall too the very valuable opinion given to the House of Lords in England recently by Lord Elton, the eminent English historian, CO-ORDINATION OF RURAL ADVANCES who, when dealing with the great question of AND AGRICULTURAL BANK ACTS family life and the survival of the Stat•e• AND OTHER ACTS AMENDMENT his words can be applied more or less to the BILL. conditions obtaining in Australia at present­ INITIATiON. said- Hon. E. M. HANLON (Ithaca-Treas­ '' By common consent, the family is the urer) : I move- basis not only of our civilisation, but of " That the House will, at its next sitting, every Christian State. resolve itself into a Committ13e of the "The family, as we know, has been the Whole to consider of the desirableness of first, and perhaps, the most tragic casualty introducing a Bill to amend the Co-ordina­ of the war. tion of Rural Advances and Agricultural Bank Acts, 1938 to 1943, the Wire and Wire­ ''Father ,has been called into the Forces, Netting Advances Act of 1927, the Wire mother has been called into the factory, the and Wire-Netting Advances Act of 1933, children are parked in creches, boarded out the Marsupial Proof Fencing Acts, 1898 to with strangers, or are merely running wild 1913, the Financial Arrangem'ents and in the blackout. Development Aid Act of 1942, and the ''Divorce flourishes, bigamy is almost a Discharged Soldiers' Settlement Acts, 1917 national industry, and your Lordships will to 1938, each in certain particulars.'' have eome across the appalling statistics of Motion agreed to. the spread of venereal disease among girls of under sixteen. MOTOR VEHICLES INSURANCE ACTS ''Juvenile delinquency has risen, during AMENDMENT BILL. the war from three or four per thousand to eight or nine per thousand. . .. INITIATION. "It is now plain that, if we r-ealise that Hon. E. M. HANLON (Ithaca-Treas­ something infinitely precious is passing urer) : I move- from us, then the first task we ought to hear constantly insisted on in official or '' That the House will, at its next sitting, semi-official speeches about the New Age is resolve itself into a Committee of the the rebuilding of the life of the family.'' Whole to consider of the desirableness of introducing a Bill to amend the Motor That goes without any further argument on Vehicles Insurancl! Acts, 1936 to 1943, in my part. If the family life is non-exlistent, certain particulars. '' then the increase in population necessary for the preservation of our ideal of a White Aus­ Motion agreed to. tralia will be non-existent also. ELECTIONS ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. Wonderful steps have been made in the development of this country since 1788 when INITIATION IN COMMITTEE-RESUMPTION OF Governor Phillip landed at Port Jackson, but DEBATE. although we made great progress in the first hundred y·ears or so, we have reached a stage (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Manu, at which the rate of progress causes our Brisbane, in the chair.) · administrators serious thought. Debate resumed from 6 September (see (Time expired.) p. 352) on Mr. Gledson's motion- At 2.15 p.m., '' That it is desirable that a Bill be intro­ In acoordance with SessiiYI!(tl Of'.der, the duced to amend the Elections Acts, 1915 to House prooeeded with Government business. 1943, in certain particulars." Elections Acts Amendment Bill. [7 SEPTEMBER.] Elections Acts Amendment Bill. 367

Jir. J. F. BARNES (Bundaberg) have at least 500 votes to spare on the morn­ (2.19 p.m.): Mr. ::'dann, before proceeding ing of polling day; in other words, one must ''"ith this debate, I wish to make a statement haw 500 to spare all told. In Bundaberg that I forgot in the debate on the Address in at the recent election the A.L.P. boasted Heply. I am sure this Committee will not that it had 700 votes up its sleeve. I stated mind my. transgressing. I should like to take that that was not enough and it would want this opportunity to thank the Secretary for at least 1 400. But how did the A.L.P. get Health and Home Affairs for granting an those 700' votes up its sleeve~ I will tell application I made to him for the use of the Committee of one means that was used. penicillin in the treatment of leprosy. This A man named Walsh, a night officer in the was the first case of leprosy so treated in Aus­ railways, and another named 'rowns went to tralia and, I think, the world. So far, all two old-age pensioners and told them that that I can report is success but nothing in this election they were not allowed to vote definite will be known till three months after in the ordinary way and must obtain absent the application of the penicillin. votes. Some of these people believed these statements. The result was that these people Now, Mr. M ann, much has been said about siO'ned false declarations that they were not irregularities at elections. In what I am able to be nt the polling booth on polling going to say I shall depend on evidence sub­ day to cast their votes. I challenged these mitted not by members on this side of the votes when they came in and from memory Committee but by two members on the other there were 126, and of that number Mr. side. The first is the hon. member for McLean, my opponent, got 96 and 21 w_ere Baroona, :;\1r. Power. In his speech the other informal. 'rhe figures were some~hm_g day he said that 197 people on the roll in approximating those figures, but the pomt IS his electorate were in a certain street and only that three of those voters came and told me two families were living in that street. The what happened-that they had voted for me. second is the Hon. the Premier, who said They were among the informal vo~es. How that these things are happening in all elec­ was that? Because these professiOnal m~n torates in Queensland. Can you imagine it~ or these professional vote-getters had not wit­ Registered letters were sent to 197 people by nessed the signatures and therefore made the hon. member for Baroona and in the the votes informal. That happened on three street that was the address of those people occasions, and thus there were three votes onl~, two families \Yere living! among the informal votes that were for me. I have not seen the inside of the ballot paper That eould not happen nnintentionallv. l but I take the word of the people concer~ed, :1m not interested in who put the :ri'ames who told me this long before the elect10?· there-whether it 'Yas the Q.P.P., the A.L.P., 'rhese men were on this job for at least SIX the Communist or any other party. The weeks before the election, and when one goes fact remains that these names were on the through the returns of Messrs. W ::Ish ::nd roll and registered letters were sent to these Towns, one will find they were . witnessn;g pc>ople but did not reach their destination. these declarations at intervals du;-mg the s~x If that could happen in the Baroona elec­ weeks. After the first vote arnved and .It torate it could happen in any other elec­ was found that the signature -:as not wit­ torate also. Some hon. members will remem­ nessed one would expect th~ mistake to. be ber that a couple of years ago in this Cham­ rectified but they made the mistake at varwus ber I tipped out a hat-box full of letters intervals during the six w~eks when t)ley were returned to me in the Bundaberg electorate forcing these old -age pensiOners to give these in my first election campaign with the envel­ absent votes. Had I wanted the votes I opes marked ''Addressee unknown.'' At the should have earriec1 on with my challenge, ~uJ time I picked up one at random from the I . d to the returning officer that I a 'tat in front of me and quoted the person's ple~1~~ of votes to spare, '' so forget th~ '~j name and the number on the roll. No person but ou can believe me, Mr. ~ann, 1 s ou of that name has ewr been in that district. not have forgotten them had It been. necesi Since then I have checked a part of the roll to have them to win the electiOn. and find out that 50 per cent. of those names ~~~~ it that that would apply to a. nu~~e~ are still on the roll used at the last election. of members of Parliament. Knowmg r da The hon. member for \Vindsor also produced the votes ,ye re ]rot material, I let them s I e. evidence that he had sent out a number of letters that were returned to him with the Wh can people do these things'. It is addressees unkno•Yn. Are we to permit this becau ~e the rolls of Queensland durmg my thing to go on continuously~ If it goes on, time have always been uregu· 1 ar. W11y. whoare there is somebody in high places who wants tl1ey irregulad Is it because. someone k ~ it to continue. Such a state of affairs would doPs not know the job is domg the w~r . not be allowed to continue in a normal busi­ Wh,o is that someoi~e? In the Bunda e~~ ness but in this business it is allO\'\'Cd. Some . t . t •t ·s the police. In Bunr1aberg o r1 1~ ne I I •t bel oeil to years ago there was also the instance of the of the police who attended to 1 on, · addresses of 75 electors being given as at a the A.L.P.-not that he c_ould I:ot belong t? house of ill-fame in Brisbane, whereas only an A.L.P. and still d~ Jus dl!bes correct!~ eight girls were praetising their profession but this particular policeman. IS a heel fro there. Hon. members must not ask me how start to finish and irrespective . of what he I know; the fac! remains that nothing has belonged to he could not do hJs du_ty cor­ been done about It. rectly. He is a proper heel. Where IS there It has always been said that to beat the a check on it? One policeman goe~ out . on GoYernment and win an eleetion one must his own. There is nobody checkwg him. 368 Elections Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Elections Acts Amendment Bill.

The job is at his mercy. He can do as he the only one I remember now. There may pleases. have been others, I do not know. Why was After I submitted the 800 or 900 letters, not that matter rectified~ Mr. Manu, if you and after the hon. member for Hamilton had knew of the Gestapo methods of the police produced his evidence it was proved that force you would understand why, and when there was something wrong. Now the hon. I say that I am referring to some members member for Baroona speaks of 197 letters. of the police force only. It may be that the Chandler Party put them ou the roll. I do not know who put them ~Ir. Foley: And leaving the rest under a cloud. Not the Townsville police? on the roll. The fact is that they are on the roll. The Chandler Party could have Mr. J. 1<'. BARNES: I speak about people put tl1em on the roll in Bundaberg for that as I know them. I do not know the police matter, but during the previous election there in Townsville and therefore I will speak well was no Chandler Party at Bundaberg so they about them until I know them differently. could not be blamed for what happened on that occasion. Why is this allowed to go on~ Mr. }'oley: You are crawfishing to It was allowed to go on because it suits some­ them. body. Who is that somebody~ It is the Queensland Labour Party, who will stoop to Mr. J. F. BARNES: I have never craw­ anything to win an election, who will stoop fished to anybody. to any tactics at all. That is the reason why ~Ir. Walsh: What about the Mackay they are on the roll. It is high time there police~ was a Royal Commission to inquire into the methods of conducting elections in general. ~Ir. J. F. BARNES: Your cobbers In Bundaberg several postal votes that came Osborn and Larkin in Mackay are the two from presiding officers had not been wit­ lowest policemen in Queensland. I told them nessed. I know one presiding officer who that to their faces, and the Minister heard did not witness four votes and he was in a me say it but he did nothing about it. suburb of Brisbane. He had four votes for Bundaberg and he did not witness them Another matter that has been referred to because one of those voters had said, ''Give here is the enrolment of C.C.C. workers. The me the papers, I want to vote for Barnes. '' hon. member for Cairns told me that 1,200 One of the four said that to the presiding C.C.C. workers ha.d been put on the roll at officer, and was that the reason why the four Cairns. I said to him, ''There is nothing much you can do ahout it except jump on the were not witnessed~ In addition to that, Mr. Towns and Mr. Walsh did not enclose train, go to Cairns, and convert them inte ballot papers in the correct envelope. They voting for you,'' and that is what he did. sent them in another envelope and that made He converted them and they voted for him·. them informal. He concentrated on them until he found out where they came from and who they were. JUr. Gledson: Is that Detective Towns All these people, or should I say some of and Citizen W alsh ~ them, had a vote at a previous election in ~Ir. J. F. BARNES: The Minister has another State some little time ago. The his names mixed up and he will always have Labour Party does not mind using these them mixed up because he has no intellect. votes to win elections. The fact remains that there were professional There is another matter. My brother, Viv men ont soliciting votes and they did not Barnes, who is in the Air Force, rang me enclose them in the correct envelope, thus from Mt. Morgan, to say that he could not making them informal. Either that or they get a vote and that the returning officer had did not witness them, which again made them told him that he, my brother, had given the informal. Why would professional men make Attorney-General power of attorney to vote, those mistakes? One could understand an whereas he had never given anybody power of ordinary citizen doing it because he is not attorney to vote for him. He said, "What accustomed to the work, but this was done shall I do?'' I said, ''Demand a vote under by professional m'en who were servants­ Section 35A. It will only be a waste of tiwe. they were either bad servants or good ser­ If the Attorney-General has voted for you vants-of the A.L.P. at Bundaberg. If the it will be no good, but it is the least yoa •oan votes were Labour votes and these men did do.'' He said that he did not give anybody not put them in the correct envelopes or did power to vote for him. not endorse them they were bad servants of the A.L.P. in Bundaberg. If the votes were I received one proxy from New Guinea from all for Barnes and they did as they did do, a person whose home was in Gavin Street, then they were good servants of the Labour Bundaberg-I won't mention the name. Party in Bundaberg. I lodged a complaint These New Guinea soldiers wrote to me after with the returning officer. Was the com­ the elections and told me that they had been plaint forwarded on here~ No, it was not. denied votes. They had had letters from the The returning officer sent me a copy of the Q.P.P. and the Labour Party asking for their plural voting and one name appeared on this powers of attorney, which they refused with list that was on the last list. Now, the the idea of using their votes for m3 on polling local policeman who fixed up the rolls should day. I did not exercise the right that I had have had that matter attended to because to ask for their proxy votes, bcPause I w;-tR that name appeared on both forms that were a one-man campaigner-the starter, the judge sent to me after the elections, and that is and the referee. Elections A"ts Amendment Bill. [ 7 SEPTEMBER.] Elections Acts Amendment Bill. 369

There is another matter-the date of the rooms, and called me over to the bar. Thev election. The elections were held on 15 April said that they fought me intensely, but that with Easter intervening in the last fortnight, they respected my opinion. They wanted to something that has never happened in Queens­ know what would be the outcome of the land before. Many people wondered why it elections, and I said that three months ago happened. I will tell you. It was because I I would have bet that the Q.P.P. would get was to take the Government to court on 75 per cent. of the Brisbane seats and 19 April, four days later, to get back the several country seats. £100 salary they had taken from me, and they did not want the decision of the High Court I said that they would win seven seats, given prior to the elections. The elections which I named. They did win seven seats. were held on 15 April. The Government knew The hon. member for Bowen then said to me, that I was issuing a writ against them by "What is your opinion of my chances~" I approaching the judge in chambers to haYe said, ''If you want some advice, stay here in the matter heard by the Full Hi~h Court of Brisbane and save the expense of going up five judges, which is my prerogative, this North, because you have not Buckley 's chance being a constitutional matter. The Govern­ of winning the election. In the past the Tory ment could not afford to have an adverse Party kept you in power even though because decision before the elections and so they you always say they voted for the Commun­ rushed them on on 15 April, with Easter ist Party, but this time the Tories have a intervening. candidate of their own. They will vote for him, which will put you out. High finance Mr. Aikens: Are you still going ou in the South has put up a Tory to put Com­ with the case~ munism in. High finance controls both of them." That is what I told Mr. Riordan, Mr. J. 1<'. BARNES: Of course I am. It the ex-member for Bowen, and the present is just a matter of having a little time. Secretary for Labour and Employment in the Mr. Foley: Are you going to give the bar before going on the campaign. I also brief to the hon. member for Bowen ~ told the people of Bundaberg what seats the Queensland People's Party would win. I also Mr. J. F. BARNES: My record in the told the people of Bundaberg that the Queens­ Supreme Court might be greater than that of land People's Party had at its head one the hon. member for Bowen-I might give directly connected with high finance. I told myself the brief. them also that they would give the two There are a couple of things I should like women candidates two seats to contest that it would be impossible to win. Yet they talk to mention. One is that during the elections about giving the woman a chance. They gave in Bundaberg, the local paper printed all the the women the load to carry. In other words, advertisements of my opponents ~nd refused to print mine. Now that is definitely wrong. they merely put them up as Aunt Sallys to be shot at. That is how sincere they are. Of course, there is nothing to stop them from But there is one good thing about it. The doing it, no law. They are allowed to print people awakened to them. I was wrong when the advertisements and statements of the I said that that party would win 75 per cent. other fellow, and they need not print any of of the seats. I was pleased when the people mv statements or advertisements. Have the of Queensland voted in such a way that it Government taken any action to stop this returned the Q.P.P. to the Opposition side kind of thing~ I have heard Government only one seat stronger. members say, ''Oh, the Tory Press, that is the Tory Press for you.'' The Tory Press lUr. L. J. BARNES (Cairns) (2.41 p.m.): does not matter a tinker's damn to me pro­ Quite two years ago I brought before this vided that I, as a member of Parliament or Committee the matter of electors recording as a citizen, have the right to reply to any postal votes after they knew the result of the statement made against me. It happened on election. When one has brought such a numerous occasions, but I was not allowed the matter before the notice of the highest right to reply. All the Government need do tribunal of the land, that is, this Parliament, is to put through an Act of Parliament to one wonders why an amendment has not been say that if a paper makes a statement against brought down on this occasion to stop that any member of Parliament or private citizen, practice. Whether this practice is continued such person shall be allowed space for 500 or not matters not. The point is that on words by way of reply. That would get over p. 44 of the pamphlet Election Act you will the difficulty. The "Worker" newspaper is read that every postal vote received through in an entirely different case, because it is the post by the returning officer shall bear a semi-private paper and entitled to keep the some clear indication on the envelope that it paper for itself. Outside the ''Worker,'' the was posted on or before polling day. I ''Catholic Leader'' and the ''Clarion,'' brought this matter before the notice of the private papers, or at least papers that practise Chamber quite two years ago, and stated as private papers, the daily papers should that the envelope I spoke of on that occa­ give some space for reply. sion bore the cancellation postal mark of There is another matter I want to mention 5 minutes to 12 of the closing day of and that is my forecast of the elections. Prior the poll. It is possible, if three candidates to my going to Bundaberg ten weeks before were in the field, for such votes to be cast to the elections, the former member for Bowen, prevent a Government from getting a major­ Mr. Riordan, and a Minister of the Crown, ity. As yet that has not been done, but the met me in the Parliamentary refreshment opportunity is there and it could be done. 370 Elections Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Elections Acts Amendment Bill.

We will assume for the moment that there Attorney-General is not here. If he were here, are three candidates in the field, one a Coun­ he would I think agree that his replies to the try Party candidate, the second a Labour hon. member for Toowong were, to put it as candidate and the third an Independent kindly as possible, vague and indefinite. They Labour candidate; the Country Party candi­ were so vague and they were so indefinite that date polls approximately 3,000 votes; the they forced the hon. member for Toowong to Independent Labour candidate approximately probe and to continue to probe until he got 3,000 votes and the Labour candidate approxi­ the information he required. I think we should mately 2,000 votes; and that approximately congratulate the hon. member for Toowong on all the votes have been counted. If 200 the tenacity he displayed. We all must postal votes are held back and the Labour agree that when he was up against tpe Party decides that instead of voting for its Attorney-General he had a rather doughty candidate, who could not win the election, it opponent, a man who was extremely experi­ will cast the. votes for the Independent candi­ enced, e:J!=!remely wily, and extremely astute, date it could stop the Country Party candi­ and I think the hon. member for Toowong date from winning. The opportunity exists merited the commendation, or perhaps I should to vote after you know the result of the say the respect of thls Committee, for the elections. The Government are well aware of way in which he stuck to his guns. It shows it, as I. brought the matter before their notice what he may be capable of doing in the approxnnately two years ago, when the future when it is remembered that he had been abolition of the preference vote was being less than a week in this House when he took discussed. As yet the Government have not that action. seen :tit to bring down an amendment to pre­ To get to the actual election itself, what vent this possible practice. I am asking the facts have emerged so far from the del:iate ~ Attorney-General why. I am sorry that. the hon. member for Too­ llr. CHANDLER (Hamilton) (2.44 p.m.) : woomba, too, is not here, but in his absence I I propose to comment to a small extent on take the opportunity to congratulate him on the question that has arisen during this the temperance and lucidity of his speech. debate namely, the propriety or otherwise However, he did admit that the debate had of so~e methods adopted in the conduct of uncovered many irregularities. I think he termed them ''minor'' irregularities. But I the recent election. disagree with his conclusions, which were First of all, I want to make it clear that that having uncovered those irregularities neither my colleagues nor I had or have the the matter should now be left. to the officials, slightest intention of casting any slurs or any who would take cognisance of the debate and suggestions of impropriety on the depart­ would no doubt clear the matter up, that this mental officials. I know Mr. O'Hagan and I was a Legislative Assembly and that we should should not dream of imputing to him any get on with our business of legislation. I improper motive. I do not know Mr. Maguire disagree with that attitude, because the mem­ but my employees, who have had a good deal bers of the Cabinet are not only taking part to do with him, have always spoken very in the proceedings of a House that passes highly of him, and I want to make it clear legislation, they are· also administering their that whatever has been or is being said in this departments and are responsible for adminis­ debate is in no sense intended by us as a tering those departments. Therefore, if any reflection on· those officers. criticism is directed towards the administra­ I might also say that this issue was not tion of those departments this is the proper raised in an attempt either to criticise or to place for it and it is at the men in charge of impeach members of the Government. I would the departments that it should be directed. remind members of this Chamber-and I do It is they whom this Assembly must hold not think anyone in this Chamber will dis­ responsible and not their officials. agree with me-that the right British people Mr. Foley: Nobody minds criticism, if have to the use of the secret ballot is one of it is fair. the most sacred rights we have ever had or are ever likely to have, and we must guard JUr. CHANDLER: By the time I have that right with the most jealous care. Con­ finished I think the hon. gentleman will agree sequently, I do regret that the Government that my criticism is fair because that is what have taken the attitude they have in tllis I attempt to do. debate. If there is anything wrong with our Perhaps the most important thing that election practices, if those wrongs are likely appears to have developed in this debate is the to continue, if there is any question of plural opinion that the proxy votes given by soldiers voting, it is not our privilege, it is not merely who were in the country at the time were our right, but it is our duty to bring it invalid. That is a very important matter and before this· Chamber so that it may, if neces­ I suggest that the Government cannot allow sary, be thoroughly inquired into. It is in that to go unchallenged. Remember, Mr. that spirit only that we on this side of the Mann, not only is that the opinion of the hon. Commit.tee-I am speaking for my own member for Toowong, but the opinion of one organisation-have brought this matter for­ or two of leading counsel at the bar of ward. Queensland and I suggest that the Govern­ I said that I regret the attitude of the ment must, not only in their own interests but Government members in this matter, and if in the interests of the people of this State, there has been undue heat in this debate I take cognisance of that fact. It is the hope suggest that to a large extent it has been of all of us, and I t.rust we are entitled to caused by that attitude. I am sorry the hope, that before the time for another general Elections A.-ts Ame"Ulment Bill. [7 SEPTEMBER.] Elections Acts Amendment Bill. 371 election arriws the necessity for these proxy correct votes were disallowed while 28 incor­ Yotes will be no more, but we do not know rect votes were allowed. when there may be a by-election and what will be the situation then. If a by-election It is not enough merely to dismiss the should occur is it to be left to the possibility matter as the Attorney-General did, with an of some persons applying to the court for airy wave of the hand, by saying, ''Oh, yes, an injnncticm to restrain the Government but we believe that there have been mistakes from allowing these votes and perhaps upset­ by the oflicers. '' Surely we are not going ting the whole conduct of the elections just to ask the public to be satisfied that in elec­ ;J few weeks before it takes place~ And torate after electorate where there were any­ if it should be done by a member on this thing from 15 to 20 and up to well over 60 side of the Committee I ask the Govemment votes they were just mistakes~ Even if they to remember that at least 1 did give them were mistakes I want to know what we are fair warning and they should take notice now going to do about it, because if 63 votes were and not allow the matter to remain for some allowed by mistake in one Townsville elec­ indefinite time. tiorr, then not one officer but all the officers in that electorate should never again be allowed Another matter that seems to have emerged to help on election day. Exhaustive inquiries and developed and to have been admittcll Ly should be put afoot to ascertain why these the Government is that a large number of mistakes were made. It is not enough simply soldiers who were abroad on service did uot to wave these things aside by saying they vote. The Attorney-General gave a good are mistakes. '!.'hey may have been mis­ resume of what took place so far as the takes, and I am not saying they were not, arrangements were concerned and I have no but I do think that it is unlikely that there criticism to offer in that regard but the fact were 63 of them. If there were 63 mistakes remains a large number of soldiers are still of that kind in that election, then the sooner disappointed because they were, as they some very definite action is taken in connec­ termed it, denied the opportunity to vote. tion with the staffs of the polling booths of Only this morning a letter addressed to the 'l'ownsville the better it will be for the Govern­ hon. member for Windsor was received from ment, for Townsville, and for the people of a soldier in the 47th Australian Infantry this State. Battalion which reads- I want to make it clear that we are not '' Re your controversy with the Attorney­ General on New Guinea voting, I can saying that if these people ;vere guilty of plural Yoting they necessarily voted for the definitely state no member of the 47th Government. They might have voted for us, Battalion, a Queensland Militia unit, had for the Independent Labour candidate, or for voting facilities in New Guinea _for State election.'' anyone. '!.'here is no charge in this that the Government had anything whatever to do I will not read the whole of the letter. I do with it but I do suggest that if the Govern­ not say that that was the fault of the ment ~re sincere they obviously will take AttornE>y-General or this Government but. I do some action. 'l'he sincerity of the Govern­ say it is a very serious matter that that should ment is now on test. be so and some inquiries should be made so that the public and the soldiers can be satis­ Another question that arises is that of the -fied absolutely that the Government did every­ irregularities that have taken place at p~ll­ thing within human power to see that the ing booths. This matter has been dealt with soldiers were not denied the opportunity and fairly fully already. Not only were th~re the privilege of recording their votes. irregularities of all sorts, but procedure vaned from polling booth to polling booth. In Instances have been quoted in ·which some booths the officers accepted votes made elf'ctors, to use the phrase on the form snp­ under Section 69, in others they rejected I'lied, ''Appear to'' have voted more than them; and so on. We must admit ~hat in once within the electorate. The Attorney­ general it has the appearance of shpshod, General has told us that if we know of any slovenly work. There is obviously a ve~·y instances of plural voting we should give great need, not only for the utmost care m him the names, and action will be taken. appointing returning officers but also for ~he 1 believe he would take action but when supervision of the staff ~hat those re~urmng he says that, the 'Attorney-General is speak­ officers themselves appomt. There IS also ing with his tongue in his cheek because great necess_ity for those. returning officers the hon. gentleman knows quite well that to train thmr staffs well m advance of the although there is reasonable evidence that election so that these improper or irregular there has been some plural voting we do not practices shall not occur in future. know who did it and we are not in the posi­ tion to point to .T ohn ,Tones and ask that he Then comes the question of the p~r~ty of be prosecuted for that particular breach of the rolls. Again I am not in a position to the Elections Act. That sort of thing will say who is to blame, but I do know that at not satisfy the public. the Q.P.P. rooms we have a stack of letters This is the Townsville sheet, which has ·--there must be hundreds and perhaps already been referred to by the Leader of the thousands-that were returned unclaimed, and Opposition. On it they quote no fewer than we did not circularise many electorates. For 63 names of people who are alleged to have all I know to the contrary, all the persons voted more than once, and 28 of them were named in those letters might have :oted at absent voters. In other words, the probabili­ the poll. Again, of course, they might not ties are that if they were personated 28 have done so. 372 Electio"ls Acis Amendmeru Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Elections Acts Amendment Bill.

It has also been said that the police did matter-! repeat again that their sincerity carry out a cheek of the rolls. But they is now being challenged-they will do every­ started that work only a few months before thing possible to investigate these matters the election; consequently, when the returns to show that at least their good faith is were sent in the1•e was nothing that the elec­ beyond 4uestion and beyond dispute. If the toral officers could do about it because they Government refuse to accept the challenge could not deal with the rolls until after the that I now offer then I am sorry to say that expiration of three months. That is a very those hon. members who have spent so much unsatisfa-Ctory procedure. There, is every time in investigating these matters and have reason why the matter should be investigated, gone to so much trouble to obtain these and the public should be satisfied that the reports-and that is the purpose for which Government did do all they could reasonably they were elected-they can only conclude have been expected to do to see that the that the Governnl'ent have something to hide. election was properly carried out. If the I hope sincerely that the Government have Government did really do that they have noth­ nothing to hide and that they will adopt the ing to fear. If, on the other hand, they suggestion, that they will put the good faith did not, they should be prepared to take of the Government above everything else and their medicine. that they will say, "We will do what yon Then comes the question of refusal of ;,c1ggest, we will open the inquiry to see that officials to obey Section 56 of the Act by the public of Queenslnnd are satisfied with challenging voters when requested to do so the conduct of the last elections.'' as it was mandatory upon them to do under that section. Mr. LUCKINS (Maree) (3.7 p.m.) : The practices that we have had described in this I submit that I have now shown good debate are nothing new; they have been going reasons why the Government should appoint on for years. In the last Parliament I a Commission. The Attorney-General gave counselled the Minister to go thoroughly into as one of his reasons why a Commission the matter so as to satisfy the people of should not be appointed that we had not the State. Recently we had the exhibition made any specific charges. I want hon. of having the A.W.U. method of balloting members to understand that I have not trans­ broadcast and we know that the Government lated these charges in any sense into legal are closely associated with the A.W.U. Now language but I suggest that a Commission that the mntter has been raised it appears to should be appointed to inquire into the me and many others that some action should following matters:- be taken ab.out it. 1. Validity of proxy votes. I have in my possession a number of letters 2. Probabilities of plural voting having returned to me unclaimed by electors pre­ taken place. sumed to be living in the Maree electorate 3. Irregularities at polling booths and and exercising the franchise there. Like the their prevention. hon. member for Windsor I have had these papers returned to me marked, ''Addressee 4. To inquire if electoral rolls used during unknown in the district.'' It is five months the last election contained large numbers since the elections took place. of names of people who were not eligible to vote and the best method of prevent­ I called at the Electoral Office on my way ing a recurrence. to Parliament this afternoon. I made per­ sonal contact with the office and said, ''Are 5. Refusal of officials to obey the law. these people still on the Maree roll W'' The 6. Whether large numbers of C.C.C. em­ Principal Electoral Officer said ''Yes, they ployees were enrolled although domiciled are still on the roll." That is evidence enough in other States and whether it is desir­ for some investigation. If those people are able tl1at such a practice should be con­ still on the roll there is either something tinued. wrong with the postal officials or with the There are six reasons, six very good reasons Elections Act. There can be no reason why the postal officials should return the letters too; a.part. from the ordinary generul :re~.Rons, why the inquiry should be held. I care not I have here and mark them "Unknown." I what form the inquiry takes, whether it be am going to ask the Attorney-General to a Royal Commission, a committee of inquiry investigate these five instances that I have or if you like a select committee of the House picked out haphazard from a box in my office, but some form of inquiry should be set on which contains some hundreds of similar foot to investigate the charges that have letters, in order to see who actually witnessed been made so that it will satisfy the people the enrolment of these people, whether they of Queensland that everything that could were qualified by time of residence in the reasonably have been done has been done district to exercise a vote for the electorate, and so that the people may have a feeling of and why if they left the district a month security, which is necessary if they are to before the election and they still remained on have confidence in that most precious poss­ the roll they have not been erased therefrom. ession we have--the ballot box. This is a very serious matter, as the hon. member for Hamilton has pointed out. It I repeat that if the Government are as shakes the very foundations of our democracy lily-white as their speakers would have us as well as faith in Parliament itself. It is believe-and I am not challenging them at not a question for you, Mr. Manu, or for me; this stage-then they can have nothing to it is a question for the people. Are the people fear. If the Government are honest in this to be subjected to this kind of legislation and Elections Acts Amendment Bill. [7 SEPTEMBER.] Elections Acts Amendment BiU. 373' is it of no concern to the Government to veracity of the Leader of the Opposition and investigate iU There should be some action. he told us yesterday that this is the rottenest The electoral laws require overhauling, par­ roll in Australia. ticularly with respect to domicile and erasures from the roll. I shou}d also like to make another point. By some peculiar method known only to the I had an_ experience similar to one that Labour Party, an opponent of Labour cannot has been quoted in this debate. I believe that get a position at the gate of a booth for his my opponent in the last election was not on workers because both sides of the gate are the Maree roll until the 30 days prior to secured by the Labour candidate and the the election as allowed by law. other candidates can go to blazes. ~Ir. Gair: You could live in Timbuctoo Jir. Moore: In three elections I have and contest an election in another electorate. had it once. lUr. LUCKINS: Does the Secretary for Jlr. LUCKINS: Labour had both sides Labour and Employment honestly believe that of the gate at Maree and I sought an injunc­ man lived in the Maree district and that his tion against them for refusing to allow my name was on the roll~ That is what I want people to exercise their rights. Every polling to know. That is just one instance to show booth in the metropolitan area was tied up that these things can lead to very serious by the Labour candidate. Will hon. members trouble. It is a very serious matter whether opposite deny that~ (Government interrup­ a man is competent to exercise a vote in an tion.) That is the dirtiest piece of demo­ electorate in accordance with the provisions cracy I have ever seen. It was only by of the Elections Act. seeking an injunction and by writing to the Commissioner of Police asking him to set out Mr. Moore: Do you think that the definitely what side of the gate I should officials of the Electoral Office should check have that I could get any results. The police up on every applicant for a vote in the have to carry out rotten types of laws in this metropolitan area~ State and that hurts them. If you were Mr. LUCKINS: I do not. I do say, how­ clean and decent as a Government you would ever, that in accordance with the provisions alfer these laws. of the Act if an elector leaves one electorate Hon. V. C. GAIR: I rise to a point of and qualifies within the specified 30 days for o1·der. Is the hon. member for Maree sug­ enrolment in another electorate his name gesting that the Government are not clean should be erased from the electorate he was and decent~ formerly enrolled for, otherwise he should be subject to a penalty, as in the Common­ The CHAIRMAN: I ask the hon. wealth electoral law. It would be quite a member for Maree to withdraw the words simple matter for the Attorney-General to ''The Government are not clean and decent,'' incorporate a provision to that effect in this and substitute some other words. Bill. The people I have mentioned may have left the electorate and their names may have IUr. LUCKINS: In deference to your been kept on the roll for a specific purpose. wish, Mr. Mann, I withdraw. Apparently At my first election, when I won by 40 votes, something is wrong. This is where I have I found that some 600 electors should have my right, representing citizens of this State. been removed from the roll for no other I am under no necessity to say anything that reason than they did not reside in the elec­ is not correct. I am asking that in the torate. I called attention to the fact but interests of their own party, notwithstanding nothing was done. That is a serious matter. the ballot-box scandals-the A.W.U. ballot­ box. scandals-do not let it be said that there Mr. Foley: You can lodge an objection. is something wrong with the Government's Act of Parliament governing the election of Mr. LUCKINS: I am not paid to lodge members to this Assembly. It is time this an objection to anyone in the electorate. The Act was altered. I am right behind the law should be specific on the point that every Leader of the Queensland People's Party elector on the roll should live within the and the Leader of the Opposition in fighting electorate, and if he leaves one electorate and this issue. goes to another he should enr@l for that electorate. What is the use of having The Attorney-General went to some trouble hundreds of people enrolled in one electorate to suggest that if anything was wrong with and exercising the franchise in another~ That the elections-and we know everything was. is the rotten part of this law, and yet the not right with the elections-an appeal could Government do not right it. As the hon. mem­ be made to the Elections Tribunal. The Elec­ ber for Hamilton said, there may be some tions Tribunal is a body set up to deal with reason for doing it. Two wrongs do not make any dispute about the election of a candi­ a right, so let us sit down and clean the date. I understand it costs £200 to appeal! matter up now, because if some action is not to that tribunal. :Many men on this side taken it may sound the death-knell of the of the Committee have not £200 available. Government. We are now asked to amend the I suggest that if the Governmen~ are sinc.ere electoral laws in some minor particulars, but thev will reduce the amount reqmred to brmg as the hon. members for Murrumba, Windsor, an' appeal before the Elections Tribunal to and Hamilton have pointed out, the necessity £50. Hon. members on this side could then exists for amendments in several other impor­ afford to protest against some irregularity tant directions. Nobody will doubt the that has occurred, and is likely to oceur sn 374 Elections Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Electwns Acts Amendment Bill. long as this rotten state of affairs is allowed member for Toowoomba yesterday, and it has to exist. been responsible for many soldiers not get­ ting a vote at the last State election. Hon. V. C. GAIR (South Brisbane­ Secretary for Labour and Employment and The proxy vote and the facilities for postal Secretary for Mines) (3.20 p.m.): There can voting offered to the soldier are ample pro­ be no debate as to the importance and the vision to enable him to exercise his vote, and seriousness of an election in a democratic if he does not wish to avail himself of one :State. vVe all agree, I am sure, that it is of these systems that is his own business. ·one of the important functions of a Govern­ But the Government, if they do everything ment to see that an election is strictly and humanly possible-and the Attorney-General impartially carried out. Nor can there be went to great pains to show to this any debate as to the fact that no Govern­ Committee that that is what was done to ment claiming the smallest measure of respon­ ensure the soldiers a vote-should not be sibility or prestige would be a party to the censured. I believe that many members of eonduct of an election on a basis that was this Committee will agree that Mr. Maguire not fair, impartial, and efficient. and his staff are to be congratulated on the excellent work done in the conduct of a very In the course of this debate we have had difficult election last April. many complaints but no charge that has been supported by evidence, document~ry _or other­ The hon. member for Maree, with a great wise. In any man-made orgamsat10n so~e flourish, complained about the return of a few minor irregularities and omissions that g1ve letters containing propaganda sent out by cause for complaint will always crop up. him marked by the postal officials "Unknown," or "Left." That is not such a Doubtless there were instances during the grave matter or one beyond comprehension. last State elections that give rise to com­ It is easy to understand that such things plaint, and doubtle~s that has be~n so ~t occur at every election and in every eLectorate. every election held m Queensland smce th1s People move from one electorate to another has been a sovereign State and the people prior to an election, and neglect to transfer have had the privilege of electing the Govern­ t:heir names from one electoral roll to the ment. other, and the result is that a. postman, Prior to entering Parliament I had the unable to deliver a letter at the address privilege of acting in the capacity of pre­ shown on the first roll, marks the envelope siding officer at elections and I know just ''Unknown'' or ''Left." what is involved in the duties attached to the That is not difficult to understand and it office, and the responsibilities that rest on the happens frequently. The indifference of a individuals concerned. In normal times it is percentage of the people about elec­ probably not difficult to obtain men quali­ tions is amazing, but the hon. member fied to do this work-the hon. member for for Maree suggests that in such cases Hamilton rightly said that the Government the individuals should be disfranchised. He and the Electoral Office should see to it that is suggesting that, if an elector moves just qualified persons are put in these •positions­ before an election, but neglects to transfer but these are extraordinary times and his name from one roll to another he should the services of suc.h persons are not be disfranchised and deprived of any say easily obtained, not as easily as when as to what form of government shall control times were normal. I know that in many the destinies of the State in which he lives. instances the Principal Electoral Officer has The sttggestion is preposterous, it is undemo­ had difficulty in obtaining the services of cratic, and it could only come from one with people qualified for this job and in some the outlook of a Fascist. cases it was almost a case of conscripting public servants. Hon. members will recognise The hon. member for Maree also com­ the difficulties, particularly in times like plained that Labour candidates commandeered these, of getting men and women qualified to both sides of the entrance to the polling carry out the duties of presiding officer. booth. Again the hon. member is either ignorant of the laws of the State or his There has been much debate on the mg·anisation hns been languid antl slow, or suggested amendment of the electoral laws he has been outwitted. and many complaints have been made that soldiers did not get a vote. I Mr. Lnckins: I have no organisation. will not say that in some instances soldiers did not get a vote. A nephew Mr. GAIR: That is not surprising to of mine, a soldier, who was in New Guinea me. It is proof positive that nobody wants has reported to' me that some soldiers did not the hon. member. No organisation will ha\·e get a vote, but he had taken the precaution of him'. SE'nding to me an authority for a proxy vote. ])lr. Lnckins: The electors want me. 'rhe hon. member , for West More ton inter­ They gave me a good vote. jected when the hon. member for Toowoomba "·as speaking that he could understand mili­ Mr. GAIR: That may be so. The hon. tary heads in advanced operational areas member \YOn the election, but, as has been said refusing to be •bothered with the conduct of here before, democracy has been responsible an E'lection, inasmuch as their job_ was to get for the entrance of some queer people into the on with winning the war. No doubt that is the Parliaments of this State and of other coun­ attitude that has been adopted by many tries of the world. The hon. member has been military heads, as was suggested by the hon. long enough in public life to know that the Elections Arts Amendment Bill. [7 SEPTEMBER.] Elections Acts Amendmem Bill. 375> traffic police control the footpaths of the are not so many of them and having regard city and suburbs. He should know, too, that to their disabilities and the ineom·euience of before any person or persons can create, con­ attending a polling booth, they should be sb·uct or do anything on the footpath that allowed to make a declaration before a J·.P. would obstruct pedestrian traffic a pennit or other responsible person so as to obtain the must be obtained from the traffic police. If privilege of a postal vote if they so desire. the Labour candidates or their organisation are active enough to make applications to the Mr. Gledson: We make prov1s10n police in ad,·ance of the hon. member and so whereby a person may accompany a blind obtain permits to place canvassers, tables voter into the booth. and chairs on both sides of the entrances to Mr. DECKER: I know that, but let the polling booths it is just too bad for the Minister put himself in the position of a hon. member who is too slow in the conduct blind person, especially a woman, who has to of his election campaign. be led into a polling booth before the eyes of ::Ur. Luckins: I was in ahead of them. the public congregated there, dragged before the presiding officer, and compelled to disclose )fr. GAIR: If the hon. member suggests the person for whom he or she wishes to vote. he was in ahead of the Labour candidate and ~Ir. Gledson: They do not nee-d to do the superintendent of traffic police discrimin­ that. ated against him he is making a e11Urge against the police and he should report the Mr. DECKER.: I think it is humiliating matter to the proper authority. It is all right in the extreme and that is why I suggest that for the hon. member to squeal but he knows the Act should be amended to give them th8 what is required of him. If he does not privilege of a postal vote. know then as a public man he should. He knows only too well that before any candi­ I do not think there is one electoral roll in date can place tables, chairs and canvassers the whole 62 of them that is absolutely clean. on the footpath outside the polling booth he Let me take the Sandgate roll, because I know must obtain a perm:it from the traffic police. it very thoroughly. In common with other I repeat that if the la.bour candidates obtain hon. members I posted literature to the that permit ahead of anti-Labour candidates electors throughout my district but I had the it is not the respunsibility of this Govern­ added advantage that I knew the district so ment or of any individual candidate of the well that I was able to omit 200 to 300 names Labour Party. myself because I knew that these people no longer lived in the district and some of them Jir. DECKER: (Sandgate) (3.31 p.m.): had not done so for years. Others I did not I suggest to the Minister and the Govern­ know so well. I posted 6,500 letters to the ment that, having regard to the charges that various people whose names and addresses have been made, and having regard to the appeared on the Sandgate electoral roll and I many useful suggestions that have been put had over 500 pf them returned, despite the forward to further amend and improve the fact that I had held back those 250. I am Elections Acts, they withdraw this amending satisfied that any C\).ndidate who posted litera­ Bill. It is wrong that we should have hue to the persons whose addresses appeared amendments of the Elections Acts coming on the various rolls would have 500 or 600 or before us so frequently. This piece of legis­ even more returned to them because the post lation seems to be a chopping block. The office was unable to deliver them to the persons Government should withdraw this Bill and concerned. We can overcome that defect by appoint a committee to go into all the aspects having a clean roll but the Government make of the Act and to frame a Bill that will no attempt to do that. Just on the eve of cover all necessary and desirable amendments. an election, they place an unfair job on the police, who are expected to rush round the dis­ I have heard many useful suggestions put trict from house to house to see that the forward in this Chamber. One hon. mem­ people whose names appear on the rolls are ber suggested that we should make provision actually in the district. That is not a prac­ for religious orders whose members are ticable way to do it nor is it fair to the secluded and unable to exercise the franchise department concerned. However, if the police on a Saturday. That suggestion is deserv­ were allowed to canvass the electorates say ing of earnest consideration by every hon. six months before an election, we should'have member. :Many Teligious sects are affected by some opportunity of doing something effec­ this provision and we should make it easy tual. It is all very well to say that when a for them to exercise their franchise and to death occurs a record of the fact is sent to give them every protection. the Electoral Office and the name of the If they are allowed to vote within the deceased person is struck off the roll. I know seclusion of their chapel, for instance, why that in most eases it is done but one person not amend the law so that they might exercise in my electorate has been dead for four yilaTs the franchise in this comfortable and con­ and his name still appears on the Sandgate venient way~ roll. The blind voters arc compelled to enter a )Ir. }farriott: Did you report that fact? polling booth and in all humiliation to. disclose their votes before the presiding officer and the )fr. DECKER: I have the name an•1 srrntineers. I think it is time the blind address here and I am going to report it. Jt workers had the privilege of a postal vote. is a matter that. can be easily settled if tlw It would not be open to abuse because there police get ample time to make a propPl' 376 Elections Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Elections Acts Amendment Bill.

canvass of the district. Even when we have to put this matter before the Committee. He "'"egard to the result of a ballot we do not know tells me that the ballot paper was given to 'Whether these people are on the roll or not. him, that he voted, and that the man receiv­ We know , that at the last moment some ing the ballot paper actually examined it to :people are unable to vote. Perhaps at times see how he had voted, folded it up, and put there is a vote up to 72 per cent. or 80 per it into an envelope, but he does not know ·cent. or perhaps up to 92 per cent., the whether the envelope was sealed or whether it highest that we can expect-! speak now of remained unsealed. He said he left there in peace-time conditions-but it shows that at disgust to think that such a thing was done. least the remaining 8 per cent. of the electors When I questioned him he said he was not •or more in other instances could not attend sure whether that envelope was sealed when the poll or did not know >Yhat roll they were he left the office. on. Mr. Gledson: If he was here for years We have electors who came into the Sand­ why did he not read the Act~ It pro'Vides gate booth to record absent votes who did not how he shall vote. appear on our rolls at all. They may have appeared on the roll for Nundah or some Mr. DECKER: I am not enlarging on other district. It is about time we got down the complaint; I am merely mentioning the to tin-tacks and kept the rolls as up-to-date matter, as you know, Mr. Mann, that names as possible. That cannot be achie;-ed in a: are required in confirmation of these com­ last-minute rush. The police could do a plaints. I am not suggesting that anything great service in cleaning the rolls if ample irregular 1u.irpened in connection with his time was given to them to discharge that vote and that the enTJelope was not sealed, duty. bu~ I de. wr-nt to emphasise that we want In my electorate I think there were about to take care to engage competent officials who eight instances of apparent plural voting. In know their duty to the electors. It is a those cases I know, and so do the Leader great shame to employ men not conversant of the Queensland People's Party and my with the provisions of the Act and who can­ colleagues, that there is some possible explana­ not direct voters properly in accordance with tion to offer. An error can be made. The the Act. clerk may put the tick above or below the There is another matter I want to bring name of a person to whom the paper was forward in furtherance of the suggestion that issued and a mistake may be made in the the Bill should be withdrawn to enable the case ~f two persons with almost similar Act to be further amended, that is, in regard names, but when one takes into consideration to identification of ballot papers by placing the great number of apparent plural votes in in the corner the number of the elector to the whole of the State it shows that some whom the ballot paper is issued. I brought people are exercising the francise in the this matter up before and the then Attorney­ names of other persons. It has become a General told me that in only one case in a practice for some unscrupulous people to take million would you have occasion to find out advantage of names appearing on the roll whether that number coincided with the num­ when they know that those electors will be ber on the roll, so as to ascertain whether absent from the district on polling day. I a given elector had voted. I do not know once had occasion to call for a sick elector. whether this is peculiar to Sandgate or not;­ The man was not well enough to walk to the possibly it was caused through the scarcrty. polling booth and asked if I could call for of gum arabic-but ballot papers were very him. I called on him in company with a lightly gummed and in not one but hundreds friend but he was too ill to go. The friend of instances when emptied on the table for said, "Well, it is a good job you are an counting purposes the corners were found. to honest man; if some men knew that they be raised, leaYing the numbers open to vrew would get a friend to vote for him as they of anyone who liked to see them. would know he could not vote himself.'' In Fortunately, we have ~t Sandga~e a very some cases that is done. careful returning officer m Mr. W1lson. He Mr. Dunstan: How many cases of plural detected the weakness in the glue and he was voting were there in Sandgate~ careful to be there with a glue-pot to stick the corners down. However, I venture to say Mr. DECKER: We do not hear of many that anyone who wanted to find out how any as it is very difficult to detect the practice. elector voted had only to get the number a~d I do not know how to stop it. The only put it down in a notebook and compare rt way to stop plural voting that I can see is with the roll afterwards. There would be no to cleanse the rolls. Then very little plural secrecy for that voter. This is a serious yoting will be recorded. matter because it could have been done in hundreds of cases in my electorate, and in I have a eomplaint to make. Most hon. any other electorate using the same type of members will remember Mr. E. B. Swayne, ballot papers, and I believe that type was an old C.P. member, who represented the virtually universal. I think the people believe Mirani electorate. Mr. Swayne is living at that those numbers are put there for the Deagon in the Sandgate electorate. At the purpose of identification. They think it is last State election, knowing that he would some underground method whereby the autho­ be absent from the State on polling day, ~e rities-- took advantage to record an absent vote m the 'rreasury Building, where provision was lUr. Maher: There are unscrupulous per­ made for the purpose. Mr. Swayne wants me sons who circulated that story. Elections Acts Amendm.ent Bill. [7 SEPTEMBER.] Elections Acts Amendment Bill. 377

:.ur. DECKER: There may be unscru­ chasing, and they allowed the Federal sub­ pulous people circulating the story. That divisional boundaries to stay as they were. being so, it has become more or less The result was-and it is a very serious one universally believed by the people that the in the electorate of Bulimba-that you have secrecy of their votes has been lost because in the Bulimba subdivision of the Federal of the placing of their numbers in the corner electorate of Griffith, parts of two other State of the ballot paper and the possibility of electorates. identifying them with the numbers on the People enrolled for the Bulimba subdivision roll. No real purpose is served by its being of the Federal division of Griffith there. It is not done in the Commonwealth do not all reside in the Bulimba elections. When we are having this Act State electorate. Part of that subdivision is amended, why not do away with a system in the Buranda State electorate and part in that can be misconstrued by the public~ It the Logan electorate. That was responsible for upsets the voter and we can remedy that some of the large number of informal votes, easily. We make suggestions to the Attorney­ 459, recorded at the last State election in the General, but he simply says he will accept Bulimba electorate. That was unfair and them or will not accept them and the amend­ would indicate, as some of my opponents may ments are lost on the Government vote. I say, that the electors were not_ satisfied with think we should get down to tin-tacks and the system of govemment or w1th any of the do a real service to the people by cleaning candidates offering and deliberately made up the Act and making it efficient. their votes informal. But that was not so. Many of these people went to polling booths I stress again that with all the suggestions outside their electorate and when applying that have been made and the charges that for an absent vote were asked in which elec­ have been laid, in my opinion the right thing torate they were and gave the Bulimba elec­ to do would be to withdraw this Bill and to torate. They were certainly in the Bulimba reintroduce it with the suggestions included. subdivision of the Federal electorate but they were not in the Bulimba State electorate and Mr. MARRIOTT (Bulimba) (3.48 p.m.): therefore when these absent votes came in and The previous speaker has suggested that the these votes were adjudged informal by the Bill be withdrawn. As I understand the returning officer or scrutineers-before they position, the Bill is not before the Committee. were opened and placed in the ballot box. A We are debating the advisability of giving universal roll would eliminate many of the leave to introduce a Bill having certain difficulties of electors. An elector, realising. objects in view. That being so, I think it is his responsibility to some extent, obtains a within the province of any member of this J<'ederal enrolment claim card, possibly owing Committee to suggest to the Government to the zealousness of a postman. The card is amendments that might overcome some of the completed and lodged in due course but on difficulties put forward here, some calmly and going to the polling booth for a State election coolly, others with considerable heat. hP finds he is not enrolled. He goes home in I am going to suggest that this is an high dudgeon and produces the acknowredg­ opportune time to have a universal roll, that ment of his enrolment claim as proof that he is, a Federal and State roll in one. This is has been enrolled or should be. He then has nothing new. It has beeen ~onsiilered by to be quietly persuaded that that was a card representatives of this Parliam.cmt in byg:me for the Federal roll and not the State. Of days at conferences called for that purpose. course, similar instances occur during a Four Clf the six States of the Commonwealth Federal election when people who are on the at present have that system in operation and State roll find at the polling booth they are I have yet to learn of any difficulties or dis­ not on the Federal roll. I suggest to the advantages. responsible authll'rities that they give serious consideration to having a universal roll, now Mr. Maller: It would be a big saving that the Elections Acts is before Parliament financially. for review. It certainly would eliminate The filling in of at least one application form or Mr. MARRIOTT: It would be a big claim card that pester the people of the State saving and I am putting it forward here in at present. The reason for that statement is all good faith. obvious-the plethora of claims and forms to be filled in for various things. lUr. Dunstan: The electoral boundaries do not coincide. I take the opportunity of paying tribute tn the returning officer for the Bulimba elec­ Mr. MARRIOTT: I admit the State torate. I do not meet him very much, probably boundaries do not coincide with the Federal only at election time, although he is quite near electoral subdivisions of the Federal divisions. to this House. I pay tribute to the efficient The reason for that state of affairs supports way in which he carries out his duties. I do my argument. There was a time when the not know whether it is the universal practice Federal electoral authorities kept chasing the but on each of the three occasions I have con­ State electoral boundaries. Any alteration in tested the State elections, I have on the day a State electoral boundary would bring about of the election received from the returning an alteration in the boundary of the sub­ officer a certified copy of the roll being used division of the Federal division in which that that day complete in every detail, showing State electorate was included. However, voters who have applied for and been granted alterations were made so often in Queensland a postal vote, names removed from the roll for that the Federal electoral authorities tired of any reason since the rolls were printed, and 378 Elections Acts Amendment Bil!. [ASSEMBLY.] Elections Acts Amendment J:Jitl. voters who have applied for proxy or nomi­ Bulimba received a, card from th!e State nated votes. These particulars are indicated Electoral Officer calling on her to show cause on the roll. 'rhat is done not only for me why her name should not be removed from but for the other candidates, irrespective of the roll. I have the card here, and it says- party. '' I, being the State Electoral Registrar lUr. Cooper: Every candidate gets one. for the Division of the Bulimba Electoral ·District, hereby notify you that I object ~Ir. lUAR.RIOTT: An official roll com­ to your name being retained on the roll for plete with all the details I have enumerated~ that District on the following grounds:­ I am informed that some candidates get a That you have not lived in the District roll but it does not include these details. for the past preceding three months. ~Ir. Gledson: Then tlle returning officer ''You arc entitled at any time within did not know his job. 14 days from the posting of this notice to ans\ver the objection either orally or IIIr. lUAR.RIOTT: That is just by the in writing .... " way. I am \Yell aware that mistakes do occur at 'times in compiling rolls. The hon. mem­ It is dated 24 October 1943 and was passed ber for Sandgate mentioned the fact that on on to me by the old lady's niece. She said, tilE' roll at Sandgate appeared the name of ''Aunty is very upset. She has been called a person who to his knowledge had been upon to show cause •vhy her name should dead for four years. I asked by way of not be removed from the roll.'' I said, interjection whether he had reported it. He ''Leave it with me.'' I inten·iewed the said that he was going to report it. Long State electoral officer and he showed me a before I entered this Parliament I had a sheaf of letters returned as unclaimed and similar experience. I had been interested marked, ''Addressee unknown.'' That mark­ in election campaigns in Bulimba for over ing was put on by the postal officials. In 30 years, and on one occasion I noticed on order to verify the position I called on the the State roll the name of a particular friend old lady again this morning and said to her, of mine who had been dead for some time. ''Tell me exactly how long you have lived in I approached the Principal Electoral Officer this house.'' She informed me that she had as to the purity of the roll and asked what been living in that house for the last 30 method was adopted to ensure the removal years. from the roll of the names of deceased Prior to that she had lived 100 yards away persons. He informed m:e that quarterly, in Dutton street yet we are told that in all sometimes more frequently, the Registrar­ these cases in which letters are returned General would send to him the name3 of people unclaimed it is an indication that the whose deaths had been registered during the addressees are not living in the electorate. preceding tluee months. The Registrar­ In the Cannon Hill locality in the course of General was also a friend of this elector and the last State elections campaign I saw the had attended the funeral with me. I said postal officers standing by ·waiting for the to the Principal Electoral Officer ''Ring him expected surge of mail matter that was to be up and he will be able to tell y~u when that sent out by the Q.P.P. candidate. It was to elector died without looking at his records.'' come forward· that day for delivery and they He did so and to his surprise he found I Yvas were standing by and had to be paid overtime right. Cases like that have cropped up, but on that account. They expected to be deluged I feel sure they are unintentional. I do with letters but these did not come till the know, however, that unscrupulous persons following day. I know that it was first-class­ take advantage of such situations yvhen they mail matter, each letter bearing a 2~d. stamp. notice them. I know that it has been done. Perhaps it will be suggested that because I have seen people discussing intentions to of the shortage of man-power or woman-power personate people who were not in the elec­ there is a. shortage of postal officials on the torate but who were on the other side of the various mail routes. I have seen women on worlrl in pursuance of their occupations as these routes as well as men young and old, seamen or something of that sort. In other who are employed I suppose to try to cope r~ses, people had died recently, and sugges­ vl'ith the work because of the shortage of tions were made to personate them. I heard regular postmen. That may account in some it being discussed, and I am not accustomed ways for the noting on the letters "Not to coming here and making statements that I known.'' cannot substantiate. :Mention has also been made of the diffi­ While the Leader of the Opposition was culty in securing enrolment. The hon. mem· speaking yesterday, I remarked that his ber for Sandgate said that the police should statement-and it has been repeated since make a more careful check and that it was by other hon. members-that various letters impossible for them to do that by having a had been sent out prior to an election and canvass just a week or two before the elec· returned through the Dead Letter Office with tions. He thought it should be done six a note that the addressee was not ·living in months before.. The suggestion I made for the electorate, was not an infallible test; a universal roll would mean that the postal and as proof of that let me say that during authorities would co-operate with the Federal the Federal election campaign in 1943 one electoral authorities and the postmen would nf the candidates for the Griffith division­ receive some small remuneration for report­ he was not a Labour candidate-posted mail ing any cases that they :find in which electors p·atter to the electors of the Bulimba sub­ should be enrolled as soon as they become

:IIr. Decker: The Commonwealth rolls Reviewing the whole matter, we should be are not clean either. reasonable. If there is good ground for any complaint, those instances should be :IIr. :JIARIUOT'l': l dispute that state­ inYestigated. That applies in definite cases ment. In my experience the Commonwealth of personation. I have heard people explain rolls are as near perfect as rolls can be. At why it was said they voted twice. Often it any rate, I say that of the Griffith electorate. was due to an error on the part of the poll The postal officials take great care in carry­ clerk in crossing out a similar name, or in ing out their duties to see that people who crossing out the name immediately in front are entitled to enrolment get it. Prior to of the elector voting, so that really there was the last State elections the police made a can­ no personation at all. I say in quite: a num­ vass but I noticed, particularly in the Norman ber of these complaints of personation the Park area, that a number of voters were not cause was an honest error on the part of the on the roll. On inquiring into the matter I poll clerks when carrying out their duties. found that when the police called at the various houses in the ordinary course of their Mr. Pie: You have seen personation? canvass there would often be nobody at home. Perhaps the husband was serving in the army Mr. JUARRIOTT: I have not seen or doing war work elsewhere and the wife personation carried out. I have heard people was engaged on war or patriotic duties. It suggest that it can be done and should be would frequently happen that the house­ done and make the suggestion to others, but holder next door could not tell the police­ no attempt was then made. man who lived in the house that was tem­ Mr. Pie: You said just a little while porarily closed and perhaps the policeman ago you saw attempts being made. would not have an opportunity of coming back to the street again and so a number of Mr. MARRIOTT: Let there be no mis­ people were not on the roll at the last State understanding on the point. I said I knew election. from heresay that attempts had been made When I was referring to the Bulimba roll and had been carried out. I have been I had in mind a statement by one hon. mem­ told that, but I had no definite evidence of it. ber opposite that a check of the rolls did I had been present when people had drawn not have the effect of removing names of attention to the possibility. A suggestion people that should not be there. I am not was made to my wife, ''Here is a person going to say that the police officers are any away out of Queensland altogether. What more efficient in canying out a check of the about going to vote~'' My wife said, ''If Tolls in the Bnlimba electorate than they are he never gets into Parliament he will never elsewhere but they did make application to get in that way." When the suggestion is have removed from the rolls the names of made it lends colour to the statement that those people that should not be there because some cases of personation have occurred, but I find that in the supplementary roll issued the party I belong to and the co=ittee after the police canvass the names of 238 working for me know the electorate fairly people were removed from the Bu!imba roll. well and see to it that they have workers at Admittedly some of them had d1ed, others the polling booth who will prevent person­ had changed their names through marriage, ation. and others had left the district and upon claiming enrolment elsewhere had had their Mr. YEATES: (East Toowoomba) names removed from the roll for their pre­ (4.13 p.m.): I have very carefully scruti­ Yious place of residence. nised the proposals contained in the !'m~nding Then there are a number whom the police Bill. Let us go through them senat1m. I certify were out of the district or have left quite agree, for instance, that persons under­ the district. Their names are removed from going a sentence of 12 months' imprisonment the roll although their names were duly or over should have their names erased from recorded in the printed roll used in the last the roll. State election. Mistakes do occur. Allow­ The Attorney-General said that the Bill ances must be made for a certain percentage provides for the abolition of the printing of of mistakes just as for mistakes of electoral a quarterly roll, but that an annual and officers wh~ do not carry out their duties supplemental roll will be printed. I did not efficiently on polling day. Some officials in quite follow him there. Does. that mean that a hurry, or with the crowd surging round a copy of the roll is sent from the C.P.S. them, may use the wrong envelopes contain­ or the returning officer every quarter~ I ing the necessary certificate in making out did not understand that a new roll would be the ballot paper for some elector voting printed every quarter. I do not think so. away from his electorate. Consequently, when that vote comes before the scrutineer Mr. Cooper: It was. in the final count, it is rejected as informal. Mr. YEATES: It was till when? That is what we found helped to swell the 459 informal votes in the Bulimba electorate. Mr. Cooper: A quarterly supplement roll Again, quite a number of errors were made was printed. with the service votes. Servicemen not enrolled were not able to state the names of Mr. YEATES: I will give that further their electorate correctly, and quite a number consideration to see whether we will pass it of these votes had to be rejected because their or not. (Laughter). homes were not situated in the electorates ·with the exception of those two matters, for which they claimed to vote. which will have further consideration from 380 Elections Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Elections Acts Amendment Bill. me, the other matters referred to by the A man, a highly respectable citizen of Attorney-General seem quite in order. Queensland, inspects certain businesses, and he has to travel about. He cannot get his I should like to compliment the returning name on the roll at all because he is not officer at East Toowoomba, Mr. Selwoocl. I more than three weeks in one place at a time. am quite satisfied that everything was What sort of a democracy is it that allows definitely aboveboard and carried on in a that sort of thingg I broug;Irt this matter proper and regular way. before the Principal Electoral Officer and Now I want to speak about some of the tomorrow morning I will inquire what has important matters conspicuous by their been done. The Electoral Office has had absence from the Bill. The first is compulsory eight months to do something. preferential voting. What in the name of fortune arc the Government thinking about Much is said about the secrecy of the that they do not keep up with the democracy ballot but where is it today with the numbers of the country~ on th~ ballot papers, espec.ially with the glue that was on the ballot paper at the last lUr. Giedson: You know tllat is not in election? One could see everything if one the Bill and you are not in order in talking wanted to see how anybody voted. All one about it. had to do was to get the number, say 567, llir. YEATES: Another matter is the look it up, and find it wa's Herbcrt Yeates. amalgamation of the Federal and State rolls. Of course one could see how people voted What are they hesitating about-hesitating and it is ridiculous having the number on like one of those horses backing in the breech­ the ballot paper. I suppose this is just some­ ing~ It will not go forward. It will not pro­ thing that pet Labour men want to have so gress. It is lying back in the traces in that that they may know how somebody voted, old-fashioned sort of gig. 'l'he Government so that they will know how to treat them. keep on in that old-fashioned style, staying I certainly think that the printing of the in the ditch, so to speak, so long as no body numbers on the roll is nothing but a catch. ?others them by raking something up. I It is something like the redistribution of m tend to mo>e an amendment in that respect. The Government are paying away roughly seats. £10 ,?DO a year unnecessarily by not am alga­ Mr. Cooper: Tile number on the roll is matmg the two rolls. I am satisfied that this not put on the ballot paper. has been done in e>ery State except Queens­ land and one other. Of course you know we lUr. YEATES: The number is on the have six States in Australia s~ four of them ballot paper. must be doing it. Why is it not done here~ ~Ir. Cooper: Not at all. Is it because of some idea that it will help th_e Labour Party to stay in for eVler ~ They Mr. Pie: Of course it is. mrght as well make up their minds that they are not going to. · Mr. Cooper: It is put on the roll. The alleged double voting may occur in Mr. YEATES: Is it put on the side of some places but I certainly have not noticed the roll, Mr. Mann? it. In these days people are not enamoured of elections. Because of the films that are The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. showing and the races that are on war or no member to proceed with his speech and not war, nobody is game to do this' little job. indulge in so much argument. Year~ ago, away back in the clays of Paddy ~erku~s, when they had torch-light proces­ Mr. YEATES: I definitely say it is. I siOns m Toowoomba and every hall was filled saw it at the last election. Perhaps the with people listening to the candidates this Governnl'ent put it on for East Toowoomba sort of thing may have been clone, but 'those onlv so as to kick me out. Did they~ I days have gone. The interest is not in it ha,:~ seen it there. I have also seen the gum now. give way and the number exposed. That In Western Australia I had the honour of practice is not adopted in the Federal sy~­ speaking to the Premier and the officers of tem. No number is used at all. What 1s every department, including the Electoral the number put there for~ I know the Department. They have one roll for the reason that will be given-that should there Lower House-I should say His Majesty's be anv troubhe Mr. ,Justice Philp, the Judge Legislative Assembly-and another roll for of th~ Electio'ns Tribunal, will be able to His Majesty's Legislative Council. Over ascertain who the voter is. Why does not th~ breakfast table people say, ''Are you the Commonwealth do it~ I want to know. gomg to vote~'' and the reply is, ''Is there The Premier says that they are not numbered an election on~'' The people do not seem to at all, so where are we~ I now move the care who gets in and who stays out. The following amendment:- Government of the day over there are labelled ''Add to the motion the words- ''Labour'' but they are a fairly liberal Government. They seem to suit everybody. ' including elimination of the practice When some of the outside agitators say, of numbering ballot papers.' '' "!"hat are you doing~ You have not done this or that' '-some socialistic measure-Mr. ~Ir. PATERSON: (Bowen) (4.27 p.m.): Willcock puts it in and His Majesty's Legisla­ 'l'he first member who spoke from the tive Council throws it out. Of course he Opposition benches spoke with much heat knows it is going to be thrown out. ' and much seriousness. Elections Acts Amendment Bill. [7 SEPTEMBER.] Eiections Aots Amendment Bill. 381

I do not altogether agree with everything plural votes in an electorate and the majority he said, but he did seem to me to be very is 1,000, the effect on the election is nil. serious. 'l'he last speaker, however, seemed to speak from the exactly opposite point of Mr. Turner: If they are all the one ,·iew. He seemed to speak as if this matter way. were something unimportant, something to l\'Ir. PA 'l'ER.SON: Not at all. If the be treated very lightly. majority is 1,000 and there are 500 plural I wish to say a few things about this votes, whether the 500 are all for one matter because I believe, as the Secretary for candidate or equally divided, or irrespective Mines has said, that the whole basis of our of how they are divided, they cannot possibly democracy will go if our elections are not affect the election. Plural voting is serious conducted impartially. I want to make it only when the majority is so small that it is perfectly plain at the outset that I do not less than the number of plural votes. suggest for a moment that any official to my knowledge conducted the elections in anything That brings me to a question that has been but an impartial manner. There was no raised in this Committee today-the need for partial treatment to my knowledge on the numbering ballot papers. Quite honestly, I part of any officer, and I am not going to should like to see a state of affairs in which make a practice of making accusations where it was not necessary to number ballot papers I have no evidence to prove them. because it does leave room for the possibility of their being opened or, as we have heard There were however, some abuses. For today, opening themselves if the gum is not instance, in the Bowen electorate there was very effective. I saw cases in which the gum plural voting, but we have to be fair about came unstuck in the Bowen electorate and the this. Plural voting can take place without returning officer merely took out a pot of any officer's being guilty of improper conduct glue and pasted it down straightaway. But and without the Government's being guilty of there was nothing dishonest about this. He improper conduct. You can have the most would have had to have a marvellous memory honest set of officials that Australia has ever to be able to keep in his head particulars as known and you can have the most honest to how each number voted. The point I wish Government that Australia has ever known to make is that there is no other wav of deal­ and still plural voting can take place. ing with the harmful effect of plm:al voting Let us consider the circumstances in the in an electorate where the majority is less Bowen electorate where plural voting did take than the number of plural votes than by place. I received an official statement from the taking the matter to the Elections Tribunal. returning officer which showed that there was If the majority is 50 and the number of plural voting and one case of treble voting. plural votes is 60, then obviously it is a case The returning officer and presiding officers to be taken to the Elections Tribunal. would have to be second Mandrakes to If the ballot papers are not numbered and know the electors in the Bowen electorate so they go before the Elections Tribunal, how well that they could identify every voter who can the judge discover which are the ballot came to the polling booth. That is an absolute papers of the plural voters and how these impossibility. We must make it perfectly plural voters voted~ But if the ballot papers plain in this Committee that when we are are numbered then of course they can be speaking of plural voting we are merely opened and the judge can ascertain from the asserting the fact that plural voting takes person enrolled how he actually voted. Let place, without suggesting that there was us suppose that the record shows that the necessarily any improper conduct on the part elector whose number is 100 voted twice, 0f any official or of the Government. onct> for X and tnen for Y. It may The only question that arises in connection be necessary to call evidence to see with plural voting is how we are going to how the elector whose number is 100 voted, overcome it. I must be perfectly honest and and if he says on oath that he voted for X, admit that I do not know how we can get then obviously the plural vote for Y would over it until we are certain that we have be cast aside. We must be perf'ectly fair every person so honest that no-one will and honest in this matter. There is no use attempt to vote for another. Let us suppose in saying, ''We object to the numbering of that John Smith is shown as having voted ballot papers,'' and then complaining about twice. I am certain that in that case John plural voting. Everyone has his right to Smith is not the guilty person, that John complain, if he makes it clear that he is not Smith did not vote twice. I think that making any charge of dishonesty against the wherever there is a case of plural voting, as Government or Government officials, unless where John Smith has voted twice, John he has concrete evidence to that effect. But 'Smith actually votes once and somebody else once you complain about plural voting you who is not John Smith votes for John Smith, must, ·in my opinion1 admit the necessity for and until we get to the stage where everyone numbering the ballot papers, and so put up is so honest that no-one will want to vote for with all the evil the numbering may involve. somebody else we shall not eliminate plural I want to deal with the position of soldier voting. votes. It is a fact-and I do not think it That brings me to the question: what is has been seriously disputed in this Chamber the effect of plural voting~ For example, -that a number of soldiers in New Guinea it does not matter if there are 500 plural did not get a vote. But the question is, ''Who votes in an electorate unless the majority is is responsible~'' It is not sufficient simply .500 or less. For instance, if there are 500 to say that a number of soldiers in New 382 Elections Acts Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Elections Acts Amendment Bill.

Guinea got no vote and leave the public to fairer if no names were mentioned, and then draw the inference that either the Government no soldier would be influenced by the names or some of the Government officials were printed on the application form. I am responsible. I think that is unfair; that offering this suggestion in a spirit of con­ is dishonest. If you can produce evidence structive critieism. I am not suggesting that that the Government or some Government the Government did this dishonestly, because official was responsible, then that evidence at the time the form was printed apparently should be produced, and I for one will back there were only two political parties with up the person \rho produces it in his fight to members in the House and the Government see that the person responsible is dealt >vith. had in mind that only those t>Yo parties would But I do not think it is right simply to make be fighting the elections. I honestly and the assertion that a. number of soldiers did sincerely hope that this form of voting not get a vote in New Guinea and leaye it will never be required again. I am sure that to the public to draw the inference that the we all hope that before the next State elec· Electoral Office was ''crook'' or that the tions arrive the war will be over and there Government were ''crook.'' If the Elec­ will be no persons in uniform who will be toral Office or any of the officers of the required to vote as soldiers overseas. If it is Government are at fault, whether in connec­ necessary then I suggest that the change tion with elections or anything else, they suggested should be made. should be attacked, but I repeat concrete I am going to give an instance of what evidence to that effect must first be pro­ may at first sight suggest that there was some­ duced. thing dishonest yet after examination it must If I rely on the information I got be admitted that it may have been due to from some of the soldiers, in connec­ some mistake, not necessarily dishonesty. tion with the Bowen election, I am A canefarmer in the Proserpine area received inclined to agree with the statement a proxy-vote form for his son about three of the hon. member for Toowoomba that weeks before the election, though his son was the real reason why a number of soldiers dead 21 months before that. At first sight in New Guinea did not get a vote was faulty that might seem to be the result of some dis­ military administration. I have no doubt honest act but if we examine it again it about that whatever. If there is to be any would be absurd to assume that it was, investigation I hope it will be along the lines because to do so you would have to assume of seeing what particular member of the that whoever issued that form issued it to that military administration was responsible. I man knowing he would vote in a certain way. take the view that the Electoral Office had I know this man did not vote for the Govern­ no power to make provision for voting in ment candidate, and of course only the New Guinea without the permission and Government could issue the proxy-vote form. co-operation of the military authorities. Of I should say if the Government wanted to course, I am only giving that as a more or issue a form like that dishonestly they would less casual legal opinion of my own. I do have isued it to some Government representa­ not know whether the Queensland Government tive such as Mr. Riordan, the ex-member for could pass a law that would have validity Bowen, or the Premier or the Attorney­ beyond the three-mile limit of the State. General. If they were going to be dishonest They would have to work through the Com­ they woula not run the risk of issuing the monwealth Government. Apparently it was form to an elector in the Proserpine district. allowed in this case. My point is that, see­ Therefore I am quite prepared to say when ing that some of the soldiers got their votes, you examine the circumstances, Mr. }fann, it is obvious that the Government did attempt there cannot be any real basis for suggesting to do something to give the soldiers the right dishonesty. It just shows that mistakes do to vote, but it would be absurd to say that happen. the Government knew that certain soldiers in a There was another case of a soldier in the certain locality would vote for their candi­ Bowen electorate who had been discharged dates and so provision was made for them to from the Army for nine months. He went up vote and that on the other hand they knew to vote but when he got there he found that that certain soldiers in other localities would a proxy form had been issued. He said he not vote for their candidates and so no pro­ never signed any form and he had never given vision was made for them. The honest con· anyone authority to do so. There again I elusion must be that the Government and the can only state the facts. I cannot draw any electoral officers did their best to give all the inference from the facts necessarily incon­ soldiers the right to vote and if some did sistent with honesty on the part of the person not get that right, then the fault can be issuing it in the first instance, and although traced to inefficient or faulty military the facts are consistent with dishonesty they administration. are equally consistent with honesty and there­ I want to say something about the proxy fore we have no right to . assume it was dis­ Yotes. I think that the wording of the form honest. I will attack dishonesty or anything in which the application for a proxy vote crooked but when I do so I want to have was issued was unfair. I say that not with contorete evidence on which to base my attack. any desire to attack the Government. It I have not got it here, therefore I will not may have been iv · _ minds of the Govern- suggest anything dishonest. ment at the tit :., ; there were only two There are two further suggestions I should parties in exist,.. "nd that it was neces- like to make. One is that th'l Act be amended sary to name <-w...; ,he leaders of those two so that proxies are automatically cancelled parties. I fhinK, however, it would be much the moment the election is finalised. It js Ele~tions Acts Amendment Bill. [7 SEPTEMBER.; Elections Acts Amendment Bill. 383

wrong that proxies should last for more than that employee's place, so that in this case, the one election. It may ha Ye been in the mind man who took 0 'Brien 's place was not of the Government when the Act was amended elected. The man who was elected was that the soldiers were going overseas, to :he Mr. 0 'Brien the candidate for Townsville. Middle East and possibly into England and Because he stood for Parliament he had to on to Europe. Probably the Government resign his position with the Railway Depart­ thought it was ne good getting a proxy fur ment. He therebY lost his seat on the Rail­ one election when the soldiers might be ahscnt way Appeal Board and Mr. West was put in from the State for one or two elections or a his place two days before the election. The by-election. result is that the employees who had elected 0 'Brien were depriyecl of their own elected )lr. Gledson: What would you do in the case of the thousands of prisone1·s of war;' representative. I bring these matters forward in the hope 3Ir. PATERSON: I am glad the hon. that the Go,·ernmen t will give serious con­ geiltleman ra1scd that interjection because sideration to them. \Vhile we realise that that is obviously a case in which exception much improYement can be made in the con­ could be made. In the case of prisoners of duct of elections, nevertheless we have to be wn the Act could be amended to provide perfectly fair and if we find things we _do tbat there is no need for fresh proxies to not like, \Ye shoulcl offer some coustruct1ve be made. solution in an efl'ort to get rid of them. lUr. Collins: How a bout airmen serving We certainly shonlil not take advantage of overseas~ the privileges of Parliament to suggest that there is a JHJceJsan· connection between those llir. P A'l'ERSON: Exception could also weaknesses and d-ishonesty unless we have be made in their case, but in the case of men concrete evidence to prove it. serving in !'ew Guinea, or anywhere in Aus­ traha proxies should be cancelled after t;he Mr. YEATES: (East Toowoomba) election. ( 4.4 7 p.m.) : I have here the case of a soldier I have a further suggestion to make. It is in New Guinea \\ho did not know there was unfair that r-ailwaymen should have to re,ngn an election on. His name is K. M. B. Yeates, to become candidates for an election. l kuow and his number is QX35885. He had no i~ is only a foTmal resignation. 'rhe case I possible ·way of hearing anything. I think am a bout to mention is the ease of Mr. E. P. possibly the army authorities were not very 0 'Brien, of 'rownsville. careful about it. lllr. Gl~son: It does not apply in the Mr. Cooper: Did you not write to him? case. of rmlwaymen alone but to all the public service. Mr. YEATES: I said. "Will you please give me full particulars of what happened llir. ~ATERSON: That is right. In Townsville three railwaymen had to resign and cl uring the election~ " two had to go back to the railway service lUr. Cooper: But before that you should because they were defeated candidates. In have to Id him an election was coming on. each case the resignation \vas more or less formal, but in 0 'Brien 's case it had rather a Mr. YEATES: My letter did not reach ~ad effect. It is true that his resignation was him until after the election. All I wanted to formal and that he lost no privileges in the know was how the election was run. That sense that when he went back into the rail­ is just one case. There must be numbers wn.Y~ it was assumed that his employment was of others. unbroken and continuous. Mr. 0 'Brien the A bond of sentiment exists bet\veen the canrlidnte for Townsville had been a me~ber hon. member for Bowen, which is my native of the Railway Appeal Board as representa­ town, and myself. What he said a whi~., tive of the railway traffic employees for 16 ago about railway employees and publle years yet two days before the elections steps servants generally was perfectly correct. If were taken to appoint somebody else on the I were working in the Railway Department, board in his place. I do not know whether I can see no reason why I should not be th:_ .Gov~rnment know that this took place allowed-- bu, It did take place and I think it wrong that it shoulil have taken place. Though The CHAIRMAN: Order! I remind the Mr. 0 'Brien was reinstated in the service hon. member for East Toowoomba that the afte·r the election, when he was defeated, he amendment is new before the Committe;J apil was nevertheless deprived of his position on I ask him to confine his remarks to tl'•'· the Railway Appeal Board. amendment. When the am'endment is dis­ posed of, the hon. member may, if he cares I th~nk that is a matter that should be to, speak to the original motion. rectified. Whether it can be Tectified or not the Aet should be amended so that in future Amendment (Mr. Yeates) negatived. public servants and railway employees should not haw to resign to stand for Parliament. Motion (Mr. Gledson) agreed to. Resolution reported. A Government Member: Would he not be elected to the Appeal Board by the union members7 FIRST READ;:"~· Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Mr. PATERSON: No. Under the Railway Act the provision is that if there is a Gledson, read a first time. vacancy the next highest on the ballot takes The House adjourned at 4.53 p.m.