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InteRVIEW Marco Antonio Zago Connecting to society Mariluce Moura and Neldson Marcolin PUBLISHED IN OCTOBER 2012 ccustomed to both genetic and he- cas and the scientific director of the Fundação matological studies and the twists Hemocentro, both of Ribeirão Preto. In 2007, he and turns of political science, Marco chaired the National Council on Scientific and A Antonio Zago assumed the position of Technological Development (CNPq) and created Dean of Research at the University of São Paulo the National Institutes of Science and Technol- (USP) in 2010 and soon faced a challenge. How ogy (INCTs), which was an attempt to change do you inspire the most successful researchers the scientific production model in Brazil. to become more interested in the university that As a researcher, he contributed to the study is responsible for their training? of sickle cell anemia and thalassemia,fighting Zago identified in many USP scientists a cer- to establish methods to diagnose and treat these tain disconnect from the institution. To Zago, diseases. He went on to study population genet- it is important to establish ways to strengthen ics and was able to identify the regions of Africa everyone’s connection to the university and thus that had been home to the slaves brought to Bra- to society itself. «You have to provide some co- zil. He also performed outstanding work on the herence to the research within the university,» genomic sequencing of the bacterium Xylella fas- he believes. tidiosa and on the cancer genome. As the leader The measures that the dean adopted appar- of the Cell-Based Therapy RIDC2, he has focused ently followed his desired course. The creation its efforts in recent years on studying stem cells. of multidisciplinary Research Support Centers Below are the main excerpts from the interview. (NAPs), for example, modeled after the Research, Innovation and Dissemination Centers (RIDCs) – What is the role of the Dean of Research at a a program created by FAPESP in 2000 – have at- university the size of USP? tracted 118 groups of researchers since 2010. The I believe my role is to provide a certain direc- AGE 65 USP Innovation Agency is closer to researchers tion and unity to the research performed by the and assists them with patent-related issues. New university. And when I say a certain direction, it SPECIALTY professors who join the university are encour- is not to perform or promote targeted research, Hematology and aged to seek outside resources and join research in the traditional sense of the word, by defining genetics teams. “Undoubtedly, we were able to improve lines of research; this is not possible at a univer- the university in many respects,” says Zago. This sity like USP. In terms of size and range of areas EDUCATION assessment has been confirmed by the favorable covered, we are one of the largest universities in University of São position achieved in all of the rankings that eval- the world. It is hard to find an area or sub-area of Paulo (undergraduate uate universities – strong rankings despite the knowledge in which USP does not have qualified and PhD) enormous size of USP, which is unusual in the specialists. And, therefore, the research activity Oxford University best institutions that invest in scientific research. is very heterogeneous and takes various forms. (post doctorate) Marco Antonio Zago graduated from the Uni- versity of São Paulo (USP) School of Medicine What exactly is that “certain direction”? INSTITUTION of Ribeirão Preto. He spent part of his career as Perhaps to lend coherence and synergy to the University of a researcher and also worked as a physician. He university’s research. When I arrived here, I real- São Paulo was the clinical director of the Hospital das Clíni- ized that the sense of unity at USP was low. The 12 | APRIL 2013 012-017_Entrevista Zago_ingles_2.indd 12 4/20/13 10:01 AM amos R O LÉ Connecting to society PESQUISA FAPESP | 13 012-017_Entrevista Zago_ingles_2.indd 13 4/20/13 10:01 AM most successful groups were those that were less tied to divide the university’s performance, USP ranks high in the university, that were independent and that claimed the humanities. We must promote a more intense dia- that their resources came from outside, and not from USP. logue among these academic cultures.. When I speak of providing unity or coherence, it is to get the attention There was a certain amount of detachment... of researchers, especially the most successful ones, and Yes, a detachment from the university, which leads to a to get them to return to the university and through the degree of separation. university, to society. One of the ways that we found to do this was to provide our own resources to support re- Where does USP stand among the world’s largest uni- search; this has never been done at such an intense level versities? at any Brazilian university. This level of commitment to UNAM [the National Autonomous University of Mexico] research started here, although the amount of resources has 270,000 students, and the University of Buenos Aires is not very large compared to what USP already applies around that number; they are institutions that have no to research. We invest approximately R$2 billion per numerus clausus and therefore any student who wishes year in research, although this is not apparent to people. to enroll may do so. On the other hand, when we look at the best universities in the world – those that everyone Does this account include resources from FAPESP cites as examples of universities that we want to emulate and CNPq? – the most important universities of the United States, No. The R$2 billion refers to the budgeted resources that England, Japan and South Korea have an average of 17,000 USP distributes to its activities. A considerable portion students. And many of them have more than 60% of their goes to pay technicians, laboratory infrastructure, im- students in graduate school. provements, water, electricity, and the share for full-time research activity. The university pays for everything. In And USP? American universities, these funds come from the re- We have 91,000 students, 30% of whom are in graduate searcher’s grants, which pay for scholarships, technicians, school. One of the common characteristics of universi- the telephone bill and laboratory improvements, every- ties with a strong commitment to research, in addition to thing. This budgeted money is used for various purposes. teaching, is a mission to produce scientific research and We provide the basic infrastructure and some resources transfer knowledge. USP fits that description. We must that go unnoticed on the pay slip. In addition to this, there emphasize a commitment to teaching. This commitment is money from FAPESP that is distributed on the basis is important because many are of the opinion that I am of proposals submitted for external review based on the monomaniacal at times in thinking that the university merits of the project. This introduces a quality-control should only do research. I do not think so. I understand component to the distribution of money. that the basic role of the university is education, to train qualified people at a higher level. How is the research support program you created going? Does USP fit that description and rank high among re- In two successive internal requests for proposals, we search universities? placed R$73 million in the first administrative year, which USP ranks high in all types of rankings. There is unani- was 2010/2011, and then an additional R$73 million in mous agreement that USP is Latin America’s premier 2011/2012. To make these investments, we invited the university. There are other good universities in Brazil, researchers to submit research proposals, whose merit but they are few in number. The club of research uni- would be analyzed; the proposals were to envision the versities in Brazil is very small. formation of a group of limited duration that was required to have a multidisciplinary aspect. The proposals also How do you take this diverse university and make the had to focus on a problem that was important to society, research activity developed by so many groups with dif- for immediate application or theoretical analysis. With ferent goals coherent? that, from the two requests for proposals, we selected First, you need to draw these groups’ attention once again 43 in the first year and 75 in the second, for a total of 118 to the center, which is the university. And, through the cores, or research centers. We called them NAPs, Re- university, these groups resume their relationship with search Support Centers. society. We do not perform superficial research because we are seeking new knowledge, which may or may not Is there any overlap between the NAPs, the RIDCs have an immediate application. Research is not just a and the INCTs? laboratory activity but also a creative activity in every You are always talking to the same individuals. Of course, respect, including the development of culture, which is the idea of people coming together around a subject arose the responsibility of the university. there. I have been coordinating an RIDC since 2000. When I was chairman of the CNPq, we also had the idea Including art? of trying to do something that involved forming groups. Arts and humanities represent a very important con- I used the RIDC model and, considering what could be tribution for USP. If we look at some rankings that sub- done with it on a national scale, we designed the INCTs, 14 | APRIL 2013 012-017_Entrevista Zago_ingles_2.indd 14 4/20/13 10:01 AM which were and still are the largest science and technol- What other projects could encourage the USP research- ogy programs that the CNPq has coordinated to date.

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