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Vol. 992 Thursday, No. 2 5 March 2020 DÍOSPÓIREACHTAÍ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DÁIL ÉIREANN Visit of Republic of North Macedonia Delegation � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � 83 05/03/2020B00100An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � 83 05/03/2020E00400 Establishment of Standing Order 131 Select Committee: Motion � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � 87 05/03/2020E00700Standing Orders 30, 100, 118A, 119, 120, 173, 178 and 219, and membership of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform: Motion� � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � 88 05/03/2020E01000European Council Meeting: Statements � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � 90 05/03/2020EE00500Coronavirus: Statements � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � 135 DÁIL ÉIREANN Déardaoin, 5 Márta 2020 Thursday, 5 March 2020 Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar 2 p�m� Paidir. Prayer. Visit of Republic of North Macedonia Delegation 05/03/2020A00200An Ceann Comhairle: Before proceeding with our formal business, I wish on my own be- half and on behalf of the Members to extend a céad míle fáilte, a most sincere welcome, to Her Excellency Ms Aleksandra Miovska, ambassador of the Republic of North Macedonia, along with senior officials. They are very welcome to Leinster House. I hope they find their visit useful and to our mutual benefit. 05/03/2020B00100An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business 05/03/2020B00200Deputy Peter Burke: In relation to today’s business it is proposed that: (1) Notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, the only business to be taken today shall be as set out in the first revised report of the Business Committee, dated 3 March 2020, and there shall be no questions on promised legislation; (2) The Dáil shall sit later than 8�03 p�m� and shall adjourn if there are no further speakers offering on statements on coronavirus, Covid-19, or at 8.30 p.m., whichever is the earlier; (3) No� 4, motion re establishment of Standing Order 131 select committee, and No� 5, motion re Standing Orders 30, 100, 118A, 119, 120, 173, 178 and 219 and membership of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform, shall be taken without debate and any division demanded thereon shall be taken immediately; (4) No� 6, statements post European Council meeting of 20 to 21 February, pursuant to Standing Order 124, shall conclude within 3 hours 45 minutes, unless previously concluded� Statements shall be confined to two rounds, a questions and answer session and a wrap-up by the Minister� The opening round of statements of a Minister or Minister of State and the 83 Dáil Éireann main spokespersons for parties and groups, or a member nominated in their stead, shall not exceed ten minutes each; the second round of statements of a Minister or Minister of State and parties and groups shall not exceed ten minutes each; a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes, with a five-minute response by a Minister or Minister of State, and all Members may share time; (5) No� 7, statements on coronavirus, Covid-19, shall adjourn if there are no further speakers offering or at 8.30 p.m., whichever is the earlier. The opening statements of a Minister or Minister of State shall not to exceed 20 minutes and the statements of the main spokespersons of parties and groups, or a Member nominated in their stead, shall not exceed ten minutes each, with five minutes for all other Members and a five-minute response from a Minister or Minister of State� All Members may share time; (6) The Dáil on its rising shall adjourn until 2 p�m� on Thursday, 19 March 2020� 05/03/2020B00300An Ceann Comhairle: There is one proposal to put to the House� These matters have been unanimously agreed earlier today by the Business Committee� 05/03/2020B00400Deputy Brendan Howlin: I am aware of the discussions at the committee earlier today� I wrote to the Ceann Comhairle in respect of the Dáil establishing an all-party committee on the Covid-19 virus� I am strongly of the view that this is necessary, particularly if the Dáil is not go- ing to sit for another two weeks� We are in the unusual situation of being in an interregnum pe- riod where, by convention, significant policy decisions are not taken by a Government. I think it is a requirement, if there are to be significant policy decisions which may well be necessitated by the unfolding situation regarding the virus, that there would be political underpinning of the legitimacy of those decisions� For that reason, although I welcome the fact that there will be statements, I am of the view that the Dáil should consider establishing an all-party committee to discuss as well as agree any future policy decisions that might be required to combat the virus� 05/03/2020B00500Deputy Eamon Ryan: I want to speak in support of the principle that this House should meet in whatever form. Doing so may be complex, technical or present difficulties, but in light of the scale of possible responses that we may have to resort to, and, in particular, without a new Government in place, democratic engagement is needed in order to assist the administrative system in whatever needs to be done. That may be difficult and complex in terms of working out the mechanism involved but I absolutely agree with the principle Deputy Howlin has set out� 05/03/2020B00600Deputy Micheál Martin: I also support that principle for a number of reasons� First, I ac- knowledge that public health officials are working under incredible strain and stress and are flat out in terms of dealing with all of the implications of a public health crisis of this kind, and a po- tential pandemic� It would be useful if a mechanism could be found within the existing techni- cal or constitutional framework to have an Oireachtas committee, for a number of reasons� The psychology of a public health scare is at times as important as the scare itself� We have spoken to Deputies on our side in our parliamentary party who have already experienced cases in their constituencies� Basically, the phone explodes� That is how one Deputy articulated it� There is much concern and there are many queries for public representatives� If coherence is to emerge from the political system, to help the Government and public health officials, in particular, it would make sense to have a mechanism that would allow Deputies and other Members of the Oireachtas to engage, keep people making decisions and have an exchange of views that would be helpful rather than undermine the current efforts. 84 5 March 2020 05/03/2020C00200An Ceann Comhairle: Before I call the other three other Deputies who are offering to con- tribute, I wish to help with the discussion� Deputy Howlin’s proposal was considered seriously this morning. There was a view that the officials leading this need to devote their entire atten- tion to leading the campaign� There was a very strong view that should the Government require the moral authority of this Dáil to embark on any particular action, the Dáil would respond im- mediately to support it in whatever initiative is envisaged� I call Deputy Mary Lou McDonald� 05/03/2020C00300Deputy Mary Lou McDonald: We need to be careful in the mechanism we choose for the purposes the Deputies have set out� I share the view of the Business Committee that all the time, attention and resources of those at the front line of this emergency need to be spent on keeping the public safe� That said, we have a caretaker Government� It is absolutely essential that those of us on the other benches not be left as an afterthought when policy decisions are being made� For our part, we want absolute assurance that everything that needs to be done is being done to ensure capacity, including in terms of intensive care, the containment phase isola- tion units and the discharging of well people from hospital� In this regard, we should consider home help and the gross shortfall in home help hours� In other words, we want to have access to information. We also want to influence, in an appropriate and entirely constitutional way, the very big decisions that will be made on this matter� I am not convinced that an Oireachtas committee is the best vehicle for that but I am aware that the current arrangement is absolutely deficient, whereby we are hearing about most grave matters of serious public importance after they appear in the media. That needs to be fixed. We can find a mechanism other than a formal committee to do this but it needs to be done speedily� 05/03/2020C00400Deputy Mattie McGrath: I am speaking on behalf of the Rural Independent Group� We had a discussion on this matter this morning� As the Ceann Comhairle said, we need a response and a vehicle to be able to respond� That vehicle is here� It is about time we got on with it and formed a Government, without having a period of flux without any real Government. We have a Government but its members are only operating in an acting capacity� We need to focus minds because this is a serious issue� 05/03/2020C00500Deputy Róisín Shortall: As the Ceann Comhairle pointed out, there was a very detailed discussion of this proposal at the Business Committee meeting today� A unanimous decision was taken that it would not be in the interests of dealing with it to set up an Oireachtas commit- tee� The main thinking behind that was based on the acceptance of the view that it would not be good to absorb significant amounts of the time of senior public health officials by having them come in here to meetings of a committee and that what we need are good, reliable and timely advice and briefings on the situation as it is emerging and changing from day to day.