TOWNSHIP OF HAMILTON MEETING MINUTES TOWNSHIP COUNCIL

PRESIDENT DENNIS PONE VICE PRESIDENT KELLY YAEDE COUNCIL MEMBERS: DAVID KENNY, KEVIN MEARA AND THOMAS GOODWIN

TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 2008 MUNICIPAL BUILDING

6:30 PM – COUNCIL AGENDA MEETING

The agenda as it appears was discussed by member of Council along with members of the Administration.

STATEMENT OF THE PRESIDENT

“THIS MEETING IS BEING HELD WITH THE BENEFIT OF PUBLIC NOTICE AS REQUIRED BY THE OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ACT”

ROLL CALL

COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: DAVID KENNY, KEVIN MEARA, THOMAS GOODWIN, KELLY YAEDE AND DENNIS PONE

ADMINISTRATION PRESENT: BILL GUHL, TEMPORARY BUSINESS ADMINISTRATOR LINDSAY BURBAGE, DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF LAW

COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC (Conference Meeting Only)

COMMUNICATIONS

1a. Teen Challenge International requests permission to conduct a tag day solicitation on August 7, 2008 at the Market Place ShopRite.

APPLICATIONS

2a. RA 08-065 Hamilton Township Recreation Football Assn. – off premise merchandise raffle to be held December 11, 2008 2b. RA 08-066 Hamilton Township Recreation Football Assn. – on premise 50/50 raffles to be held during the months of September and October, 2008 2c. RA 08-067 Allies, Inc. – off premise 50/50 raffle to be held October 10, 2008 2d. RA 08-068 Allies, Inc. – casino night to be held October 10, 2008

RESOLUTIONS

3. Resolution Approving Application Of Nationwide Auto Outlet, LLC For A (Used) Automobile Dealer's License PUBLIC HEARING

3a. Resolution Endorsing Submission Of A Municipal Recycling Tonnage Grant Application To The New Jersey Department Of Environmental Protection, Bureau Of Recycling And Planning For Calendar Year 2007

3b. Resolution Consenting To The Appointment Of Individuals To The Hamilton Township Municipal Alliance Commission On Alcoholism And Drug Abuse

3c. Resolution Establishing A One-Year Contract With Griffith Electric For The Purchase Of Batteries, Light Bulbs, Fluorescent Tubes And Ballasts ($2,475.28 Maximum)

3d. Resolution Establishing A One-Year Contract With Jewel Electric For The Purchase Of Batteries, Light Bulbs, Fluorescent Tubes And Ballasts ($20,130.38 Maximum)

3e. Resolution Establishing A One-Year Contract With Sharlin-Lite For The Purchase Of Batteries, Light Bulbs, Fluorescent Tubes And Ballasts ($4,452.50 Maximum)

3f. Resolution Establishing A Two Year Contract With Brenntag Northeast For The Purchase Of Potassium Permanganate ($86,555.00 Maximum)

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

3g. Resolution Authorizing Agreement For Professional Services For The Review Of Development Applications And The Inspection Of Development Projects, And Appearance At Planning Board Meetings When Requested, With The Engineering Firm Remington, Vernick And Arango For Fiscal Year 2009 In An Amount Not To Exceed $20,000 Maximum

3h. Resolution Authorizing Agreement For Professional Services With Philip B. Caton And Clarke Caton Hintz For Planning Consulting Services To The Hamilton Township Planning Board And The Hamilton Township Zoning Board Of Adjustment For Fiscal Year 2009 In An Amount Not To Exceed $75,000 Aggregate Maximum

3i. Resolution Amending Agreement With Horizon Blue Cross & Blue Shield Of New Jersey For Municipal Employees Health Benefits For The Term June 1, 2007 To June 30, 2008

3j. Resolution Authorizing Agreement With CIGNA Healthcare For Municipal Employees Health Benefits For Term July 1, 2008 To June 30, 2009 ($9,137,622.00)

3k. Resolution Authorizing Transfers In The Fiscal Year 2008 Municipal Budget ($690,050.00)

3l. Resolution Authorizing Transfers In The Fiscal Year 2008 Sewer Utility Budget ($78,000.00)

CONSENT AGENDA

4a. Resolution Authorizing The Refund Of Fee Paid By MAK Construction For A Construction Permit ($50.00)

4b. Resolution Authorizing The Refund Of Fee Paid By Richard Eck For A Plumbing Permit ($43.00)

4c. Resolution Authorizing The Refund Of Fee Paid By David Morgan For A Construction Permit ($72.00)

4d. Resolution Authorizing The Refund Of Taxes Representing 2007 And 2008 Real Estate And Sewer Overpayments And Refunds ($6,680.00)

4e. Resolution Authorizing The Refund Of Fees Paid By AFEW For Animal Adoptions ($40.00)

4f. Resolution Authorizing The Reduction Of Performance Bond For On-Site Improvements Made To The Property Known As 5 Commerce Way, Block 2591, Lots 3, 4 And 5 [Gateway 195 Centre]

4g. Resolution Authorizing The Release Of Performance Bond For On-Site Improvements Made To The Property Known As Crossroad Drive And Commerce Way, Block 2591, Lots 3, 4 And 5 [Gateway 195 Centre]

4h. Resolution Authorizing The Release Of Performance Bond For On-Site Improvements Made To The Property Known As 5 Commerce Way, Block 2591, Lots 3, 4 And 5 [Gateway 195 Centre]

4i. Resolution Authorizing The Release Of Performance Bond For On-Site Improvements Made To The Development As Yardville Manor [Murray Avenue, Block 2683, Lots 24 And 25]

4j. Resolution Authorizing The Release Of Performance Bond For On-Site Improvements Made To The Property Known As South Gold Drive, Block 2597, Lots 7 And 8 ($625,000.00)

ORDINANCES

5a. 08-028 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration of Government, Article IV, Departments, Division 5, Department of Law and Public Safety, Section 2-272, Police Division

CONTINUATION OF SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5b. 08-031 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration of Government, Article IV, Departments, Division 6, Department of Engineering, Planning and Inspections, Section 2-291

SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

5c. 08-032 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The “Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey”, Chapter 2, Administration of Government, Article V, Boards, Commissions, Committees And Agencies, Division 7, Economic Development Advisory Commission, Sections 2-522, 2-523 and 2-525

SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5d. 08-033 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration of Government, Article V, Boards, Commissions, Committees And Agencies, Division 11, Municipal Alliance Committee on Alcoholism And Drug Abuse, Section 2-628

SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5e. 08-034 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 74, Jewelry, Precious Metals And Gem Dealers, Section 74-4, Record of Sales SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5f. 08-035 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 86, Miscellaneous Provisions And Offenses, Section 86-26, Concerning The Prohibiting Of Any Parent OR Other Personal From Enrolling A Non- Resident Student In the Hamilton Township School District

SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5g. 08-036 An Ordinance Establishing A Handicapped Parking Space (1432 Genesee Street)

SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5h. 08-037 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey Chapter 50, Fees, Section 50-1, Miscellaneous Administrative Fees (Septemberfest–Demonstrators of Services or Products)

SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5i. 08-038 Ordinance Authorizing The Mayor To Execute A Quit Claim Deed Relinquishing Any And All Ownership Interest The Township Of Hamilton May Have In Block 2474, Lot 49 SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5j. 08-039 Ordinance Accepting Deed Of Conservation Easement And Deed Of Right-Of-Way Dedication (Allstar Route 130 HS, LLC, Crosswicks-Hamilton Square Road And NJ State Highway 130, Block 2712, Lots 138.01 And 138.02

FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

5k. 08-040 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration Of Government, Article III, Departments, Division 6, Department Of Community Planning And Compliance, Section 66-63, Inspection Prior To Change In Occupancy, Section 66-64, Inspections Fees, Section 66- 68, General Maintenance Requirements And Section 66-74, Electrical Standards

FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

5l. 08-041 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration Of Government, Article IV, Departments, Division 5, Department Of Law And Public Safety, Section 2-272, Police Division

FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

5m. 08-042 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration Of Government, Article IV, Departments, Division 5, Department Of Law And Public Safety, Section 2-272, Police Division

FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

5n. 08-043 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration Of Government, Article IV, Departments, Division 5, Department Of Law And Public Safety, Section 2-272, Police Division

FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

5o. 08-044 Bond Ordinance Amending Bond Ordinance Numbered 05-049 Of The Township Of Hamilton, In The County Of Mercer, New Jersey Finally Adopted December 20, 2005

FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

RECESS AS THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL AND CONVENE AS THE LOCAL ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL BOARD

6a. Resolution Approving Renewal Of Alcoholic Beverage Control Liquor Licenses For The Term July 1, 2008 Through June 30, 2009

6b. Resolution Approving Renewal Of Alcoholic Beverage Control Liquor Licenses With Special Conditions For the Term July 1, 2008 Through June 30, 2009

RECESS AS THE LOCAL ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL BOARD AND RECONVENE AS THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL

COMMENTS FROM THE COUNCIL

ADJOURNMENT:

______Eileen Gore Deputy Municipal Clerk

Agenda Meeting

DK___ KM ___ TG___ KY___ DP ___

TOWNSHIP OF HAMILTON Call to Order ______pm Adj. ______pm MEETING MINUTES TOWNSHIP COUNCIL

PRESIDENT DENNIS PONE VICE PRESIDENT KELLY YAEDE COUNCIL MEMBERS: DAVID KENNY, KEVIN MEARA AND THOMAS GOODWIN

TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 2008 MUNICIPAL BUILDING

7:30 PM – COUNCIL AGENDA

STATEMENT OF THE PRESIDENT

“THIS MEETING IS BEING HELD WITH THE BENEFIT OF PUBLIC NOTICE AS REQUIRED BY THE OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ACT”

ROLL CALL

COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: DAVID KENNY, KEVIN MEARA, THOMAS GOODWIN, KELLY YAEDE AND DENNIS PONE

ADMINISTRATION PRESENT: BILL GUHL, TEMPORARY BUSINESS ADMINISTRATOR LINDSAY BURBAGE, DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF LAW

SALUTE TO THE FLAG

INVOCATION

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: Our Heavenly Father, we thank you for gathering us here together again, and we ask for your guidance and courage as we deliberate decisions impacting Hamilton Township. We ask that you provide a sense of peace over the friends and families and our service members serving both at home and abroad; and ask for a sense of peace until they are reunited. We ask these in thy Holy Name; Amen.

PRESIDENT PONE: Madam Clerk, proceed with the agenda, please.

COMMUNICATIONS

On the motion of Mr. Meara, seconded by Mr. Kenny the following communication was unanimously approved by Council.

1a. Teen Challenge International requests permission to conduct a tag day solicitation on August 7, 2008 at the Market Place ShopRite.

APPLICATIONS

On the motion of Mr. Meara, seconded by Mr. Kenny the applications as submitted below were unanimously approved by Council.

2a. RA 08-065 Hamilton Township Recreation Football Assn. – off premise merchandise raffle to be held December 11, 2008 2b. RA 08-066 Hamilton Township Recreation Football Assn. – on premise 50/50 raffles to be held during the months of September and October, 2008 2c. RA 08-067 Allies, Inc. – off premise 50/50 raffle to be held October 10, 2008 2d. RA 08-068 Allies, Inc. – casino night to be held October 10, 2008

RESOLUTIONS

08-220 Resolution Approving Application Of Nationwide Auto Outlet, LLC For A (Used) Automobile Dealer's License

PUBLIC HEARING

Ms. Yaede moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Goodwin; unanimously approved by Council after the following discussion:

PRESIDENT PONE: auto Dealership that already exists and the owner Pat Shemmer, if I’m pronouncing that correctly, Pat is in the audience, if you care to answer the gentleman’s question?

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. OPFERMAN: This is going back to somebody that was previous and going through the process again? Okay, thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Bill any other questions? This is a public hearing ladies and gentlemen. Mr. Gambino.

ANTONIO C. GAMBINO: No, I’m just telling her that, nothing against her. You know, I remember distinctly, first of all, I want to get into logistics and logics of this thing, but I remember it was a gentleman who came in here, and he had a place on Olden Avenue. You’re shaking your head.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: I remember that.

MR. GAMBINO: Oh you remember yeah. You know what, I would like to ask this Council what was the outcome of that because I mean, and he fought very hard in here to get a used car license. And I go by that property every day almost, and I see its weeds and there’s nothing to it. I mean, what’s the deal with it? What happened with this man? Why couldn’t he get a license? He had a license, but then they took it away from him. What was the story with him?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: The prior administration took it away on the basis that the Zoning Board had only approved him to have I think it was four cars stored on the property. And I guess he had about twenty out there, and so that was what the argument was. But the Council was really never involved in that, it was the administration took action on that saying he violated his use variance.

MR. GAMBINO: Well, let me ask you this, did he know that there was only supposed to be four cars.

PRESIDENT PONE: Mr. Gambino stick to the public hearing on this particular resolution.

MR. GAMBINO: Well, I mean…

PRESIDENT PONE: Bring this up at the end of the meeting.

MR. GAMBINO: No because every time you come up here, I mean, and it seems like you could put more than four cars on that lot down there.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: That was a dispute that is a complete separate issue.

PRESIDENT PONE: You can talk about it at the end of the meeting. This is on this particular resolution. It’s a public hearing for a used car license.

MR. GAMBINO: Okay, whatever.

PRESIDENT PONE: Not the one you’re talking about.

MR. GAMBINO: All right.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Gambino. Any other comments from the public on this resolution? If not, I ask for a motion to close the public hearing.

08-221 RESOLUTION ENDORSING SUBMISSION OF A MUNICIPAL RECYCLING TONNAGE GRANT APPLICATION TO THE NEW JERSEY DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION, BUREAU OF RECYCLING AND PLANNING FOR CALENDAR YEAR 2007

Mr. Goodwin moved to adopt, seconded by Ms. Yaede; unanimously approved by Council.

08-222 RESOLUTION CONSENTING TO THE APPOINTMENT OF INDIVIDUALS TO THE HAMILTON TOWNSHIP MUNICIPAL ALLIANCE COMMISSION ON ALCOHOLISM AND DRUG ABUSE

Mr. Kenny moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Meara; unanimously approved by Council after the following discussion:

PAUL RESSLER, 342 Sandalwood: I see the resolutions here; I’m just kind of concerned there are no names here.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: We can tell you the names.

MR. RESSLER: Oh okay, I was wondering why they’re not on here I would think that would be important.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

COUNCILMAN KENNY: You just have the agenda.

MR. RESSLER: Oh okay.

PRESIDENT PONE: Jessica Nitti, its Janice Archenbeault…

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: And yourself.

PRESIDENT PONE: And you.

MR. RESSLER: Okay thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Are any other names on that list in the audience tonight? Well Paul, I’d like to thank you for your…

MR. RESSLER: You’re welcome; I know Tom pushed it through for me.

PRESIDENT PONE: Well, we know he remembers.

MR. RESSLER: I appreciate that, I also want to just remind everyone that drugs and alcohol are a serious problem in this township, particularly with our youth. And you needn’t be told the ordinance needs to be reviewed. And I want to look to you guys to make sure that every position that should be filled, Police Department, Mayor’s Office that someone’s at the meeting. And as for the sign, it’s… We really need everyone’s help with this issue. Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Paul, thanks for your service on this, I appreciate it.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. President, if I may through you to Paul, Paul, just a quick question for you. The names that were just read to you, I know there was several names submitted. Were these names, the names that were submitted by your committee to the administration?

MR. RESSLER: Three names, one is your friend, right, your neighbor, Jessica Nitti.

PRESIDENT PONE: She’s already been appointed, Jennifer Horner.

MR. RESSLER: There were a couple other names on there, and I don’t think I really want to get into that tonight. One was John Kroschwicz, he was our former chairperson. And there were a lot of really good names and so on. I’m curious… I think there are only one, two, three people, and you did appoint three people. So I’ll mind my own business on that one. Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Paul.

COUNCILMAN MEAR: And through you Mr. President, to the administration. Bill, the names that were submitted by the committee, my question is then, are these the names that were submitted or have these been substituted, so on and so forth?

MR. GUHL: I can’t answer that Councilman, but I all I know is this were the Mayor’s appointments and these are the names the Mayor put forth to the Council for consideration.

MR. RESSLER: Kevin, they were the names that were submitted, that’s three of them.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Yeah, that’s all I want to know.

MR. RESSLER: I’m sorry, that’s correct.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: The paperwork was given to me and I gave it to Mike Angarone, and I just wanted to make sure I’ve given you the doubt. No okay, that’s all I was trying to get at. But I probably will have a question for you a little later if you hang around because there’s another, an ordinance.

MR. RESSLER: Okay.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Thank you Mr. President.

PRESIDENT PONE: You’re welcome. Any other comments on 3B? Mr. Capodanno.

VINNIE CAPODANNO, 4134 South Broad Street: Can you tell me why Kroschwicz isn’t being reappointed, is his term up?

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. GUHL: I can give you the same answer I gave which is the appointments is those of the Mayor. He’s proposed them to the Council and the Council has advice and consent. We get resumes and recommendations from members on every one of the township boards and ultimately, the Mayor makes decisions about who he wants to propose to the Council whether it’s Planning Board, Zoning Board, or any of the various advisory committees to the township.

MR. CAPODANNO: Mr. Kroschwicz works for the justice department and youth. And he’s very very well qualified, even though he’s a Democrat, and it just makes me wonder why you would take somebody off that’s well qualified. I’d like to know the people that replaced him is as qualified as John. I don’t want to get into politics as usual because somebody is a Democrat?

PRESIDENT PONE: Mr. Capodanno, just to interject, I believe Mr. Kroschwicz’s term expired in ‘05. So I mean this is a Mayoral appointment. I understand where you’re coming from, but…

MR. CAPODANNO: I don’t think, he brought it up and I just wanted to know if you knew anything about it, that’s all.

PRESIDENT PONE: Only that his term expired, that’s the only thing I…

MR. CAPODANNO: I don’t even know if he reapplied.

PRESIDENT PONE: I don’t know either.

MR. CAPDOANNO: Just when you brought up the names made me wonder because I know how it is with youth.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. President if I may, Councilman, the reason I didn’t ask the question was that I met with the committee and they had given me several resumes. That was quite some time ago, and I didn’t remember which names were on which names were off. Paul just confirmed to me that these three names are resumes that were submitted by the committee. We’re trying to assist them as far as additional names that Paul may have, I’m hoping that they’ll stay in the file for future. Because people come and go off these committees but I’m satisfied that if Paul is saying that these were part of the names that I gave to Mike Angarone because they were pushing to get those seats filled so they could do their job. These three were part of the package that I had given Mike, I’m satisfied with it.

MR. CAPODANNO: Yeah, I think it’s an enormous problem with alcohol, and we know there’s a problem with drugs. But I think one of the things that they should really look into is a lot of these establishments with package goods. I think they need more surveillance. I think that you got to start to really see what’s going on with them when it comes to people going in there, and youth going in there and selling alcohol to them. I think there’s a lot of things that are being done at the township and the Council should look into because it’s getting to e a large problem.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: I actually need the administration to be complimented because I think it was on last meeting that Paul came in front of us, right Paul.

MR. RESSLER: Yes.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: It was only a couple weeks ago, and they acted pretty quickly on it, so…

MR. CAPODANNO: All right.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Kevin. Any one else care to comment on resolution 3B? Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

08-223 RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A ONE-YEAR CONTRACT WITH GRIFFITH ELECTRIC FOR THE PURCHASE OF BATTERIES, LIGHT BULBS, FLUORESCENT TUBES AND BALLASTS ($2,475.28 MAXIMUM)

Mr. Meara moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Kenny; approved four to zero by Council with one abstention.

PASSED: Ayes – 4. Nays – 0. Abstentions –1 Ayes: Council members – Kenny, Meara, Yaede and Pone Abstention: Councilman Goodwin

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

08-224 Resolution Establishing A One-Year Contract With Jewel Electric For The Purchase Of Batteries, Light Bulbs, Fluorescent Tubes And Ballasts ($20,130.38 Maximum)

Ms. Yaede moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Goodwin; unanimously approved by Council after the following discussion:

TRINA SARGEANT, 3460 East State Street Extension: I don’t understand why you have two different companies consenting charging one 42,000 and one $20,000. I noticed this through the where you have to…

MR. GUHL: We have a whole list of lighting and electrical products that we put out to bid. And we award the bid based on the low bid in each one of the types. So actually C, D, and E are all associated. C, a little bigger on certain of the items, on the list and we awarded the bid to them for those items and D was the low bidder on a whole list of other items that have been put out to bid. And E, was a whole list of other items. So when we wrote the bid specs on the language, we can take two different types of florescent tubes and B had the best price on another. We can award two to one and one on another. That’s why you see three awards for something that was bid as one product list.

MS. SARGEANT: Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Trina.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. President, through you to maybe Bill or maybe Director Balgowan can answer this. But just looking at these resolutions, for lights and florescent tubes, have we ever had an escrow come in and look at… I know the state Clean Energies Program has refunds for retooling lights so on and so forth. I’m just wondering if…

MR. GUHL: Well, Rich can’t wait to answer those questions. It’s all he can do to stay in his seat. You’re talking about an energy audit? Rich.

RICH BALGOWAN: Thank you Bill.

PRESIDENT PONE: Would you just identify yourself.

MR. BALGOWAN, Director of Public Works. Actually there are energy audits out there that we can ask to have done. I think there is a price; you have to pay to get that done. We’ve done a lot of things on our own. I think we have the level of expertise here to do that. At least a year ago, we put together a building energy conversation plan, looked at all the buildings, looked at all the lighting, and have a plan in place to do things like replacing all the fluorescent light ballasts to high energy efficient valves, going from T12 tubing to T8. So the tubes are costing us less and we’re getting, more energy we’re saving energy and we’re getting at least the equivalent amount of light. Other things we’re doing, we’re in the process now of (indiscernible). We’re in the process of doing… Just to let you know where we are. We’re in the process of doing a township wide carbon and greenhouse gas inventory, with that, we’ll become a climate action control plan, climate action plan through the township. Where we will then try to go through the schools to educate the public on what they can do to reduce energy usage in your homes and businesses. It will all be about CFL and all the other things, alternative fuels. We’re also in the process of preparing an ordinance for presentation and I may be a little bit premature about it. Bill invited me up here.

MR. GUHL: It was not my invitation; it’s the Council President’s.

MR. BALGOWAN: It has to do with implementing leadership with the energy environmental design standard, new building construction, which is essentially requiring that builders build green buildings. So there are a lot of things we’re doing. The need for energy audit, personally, I don’t think that’s required. We have the level of expertise here now we’ve done a lot.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Do we have to hire Nesco to apply the State’s Clean Energies program we get, rebates, because we’re replacing the ballasts and the tubes versus doing it; trying to get those rebates.

MR. BALGOWAN: We’re applying for rebates that we’re aware of and grants that we’re aware of. For example, we get a… We’re using bio-diesel in our diesel vehicles which is twenty percent soybean oil, eighty percent typical petroleum based diesel. And we get a full rebate for any difference in the cost of bio diesel verses regular diesel. There are some grants that we’re looking into for solar energy in our buildings. One is through a program we can try to get through PSE&G, which you may be aware of, but as far as other grants available I’m not aware of.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: If you get a chance, I would just go to New Jersey’s web site or the clean energies web site because they do have rebates when you’re already doing the ballasts and replacing

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

motors with high efficiency motors. I just don’t know if we have to hire Nesco to do it or since we’re doing it in-house we can still apply for that.

MR. BALGOWAN: You believe they’re open to municipalities.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: I’m pretty sure it’s open to anybody who is interested. But I’ve been wrong in the past.

MR. BALGOWAN: We are applying for a $50,000.00 grant from the state to install, we’re replacing underground storage tanks and we’re eligible for a $50,000.00 grant from the state.

PRESIDENT PONE: The one addition I allowed to the agenda. Any other questions on 3D? Augie, Augie with a tie, where have you been?

MR. SCOTTO: Granddaughter’s birthday, County gathering and here.

PRESIDENT PONE: Congratulations.

MR. SCOTTO: I’m against this. Why do we have to conserve energy I want facts?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Well this isn’t about conserving energy. It’s about buying…

MR. SCOTTO: Well I just heard…

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Fluorescent tubes and ballasts but that’s not have to do with this resolution.

MR. SCOTTO: It’s reducing our usage of energy on equipment we have, reducing in the building, getting the people to reduce the energy.

PRESIDENT PONE: Augie, one thing you’ll like; and if nothing else and I know exactly where you’re going with this. If nothing else, most of these efforts save money, and a lot of them save money.

MR. SCOTTO: No they don’t. What they do is provoke businesses to go bankrupt, people to lose their jobs. It’s going on all over the United States because the politicians are playing games. What they did like they’re blaming the oil companies. What they did, Clinton closed down all their drilling sites, a lot of their drilling sites. So what they’re all coming down to do is buy oil from OPEC. Did you see those fourteen nations who they are?

PRESIDENT PONE: What we’re talking about is the resolution that we’re using low bids to buy light bulbs, light equipment. If you want to talk about it at the end, you can talk about it all you want.

MR. SCOTTO: All right, I just thought that you wanted to conserve energy, there’s no conservation of energy. What’s doing it is the money that we’re throwing to those OPEC countries that should be spent here instead of over there.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Augie. Mr. Gambino, please on resolution 3D.

ANTONIO C. GAMBINO: I want to ask you a question. You said that we’re going to save money on this? Is that what you said?

PRESIDENT PONE: Ultimately, I think we will.

MR. GAMBINO: You will save money. Well, let me ask you this, what good is saving the money when you’re going to turn around and give it to these two jokers on 3G and 3H? That’s all I got to say.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Gambino. Any other comments on resolution 3D? Roll call please.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Dennis stop him.

PRESIDENT PONE: Mr. Gambino, please. Mr. Gambino… Gavel, gavel, gavel, Tony, I don’t want to throw you out I don’t. But I got to ask you to keep your comments to yourself. Please, please. I’m not going to warn you again. Madam Clerk.

08-225 RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A ONE-YEAR CONTRACT WITH SHARLIN-LITE FOR THE PURCHASE OF BATTERIES, LIGHT BULBS, FLUORESCENT TUBES AND BALLASTS ($4,452.50 MAXIMUM)

Mr. Goodwin moved to adopt, seconded by Ms. Yaede; unanimously approved by Council.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

08-226 RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A TWO YEAR CONTRACT WITH BRENNTAG NORTHEAST FOR THE PURCHASE OF POTASSIUM PERMANGANATE ($86,555.00 MAXIMUM)

Mr. Kenny moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Meara; unanimously approved by Council after the following discussion:

TRINA SARGEANT, 3460 East State Street Extension: What is this used for?

PRESIDENT PONE: This is a chemical that the sewer plant uses to counter act, the odors that come from the filter presses.

MS. SARGEANT: It’s not meant to be a disinfectant?

PRESIDNT PONE: I don’t know that actually.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: It’s to control odor and toxic fumes coming off the sludge dewatering.

PRESIDENT PONE: It would be an unfit area to work in if there were not for this use of chemical.

MS. SARGEANT: Okay, I’m just wondering it doesn’t say this is for.

PRESIDENT PONE: It’s a good question.

MS. SARGEANT: Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you. Any other questions on this resolution? Roll call please.

08-227 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AGREEMENT FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES FOR THE REVIEW OF DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS AND THE INSPECTION OF DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, AND APPEARANCE AT PLANNING BOARD MEETINGS WHEN REQUESTED, WITH THE ENGINEERING FIRM REMINGTON, VERNICK AND ARANGO FOR FISCAL YEAR 2009 IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $20,000 MAXIMUM

Mr. Meara moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Kenny; approved by Council four to one after the following discussion:

BILL GROOM, 8 Sparrow Drive: Could you tell me what this firm service they provide and the difference between what they do and Mr. Caton, the next resolution?

MR. GUHL: This firm provides engineering services, civil engineering services. They review plans, in this case, they would review plans on behalf of the Planning Board, the charges for those services will be paid for by escrow deposits made by applicants before the board, and the expertise is engineering, curbs, drainage, right-of-way, etc. The next resolution is for planning services for both the Planning Board and the Zoning Board, that’s conformance wit the land use ordinance with regard to the zoning comments about zoning reviews of plans, comments about whether the plans are consistent with the ordinance requirements. Whether the parking meets, etc, those are the two critical elements the Planning Board.

MR. GROOM: Then the company on 3G, will they be used by the Zoning Board also?

MR. GUHL: Well, that depends on the Zoning Board making that selection. So far…

MR. GROOM: I think this is on our agenda for the next meeting. I don’t recall.

MR. GUHL: It is, Bill.

MR. GOROM: Oh okay.

PRESIDENT PONE: Mr. Guhl would you just for the public’s sake, would you explain the duty of the Planning Board in picking their own engineers.

MR. GUHL: The Planning and Zoning Boards are per statute set up by state law. And they are given powers independent of the administration and the Council. One of those powers is the selection of their professionals. So the role of the Planning Board and Zoning Board in that process is to select professionals, engineers, planners, traffic engineers, and any other form of expertise that might be sound experts if the case is appropriate. But they don’t have the power to contract. The power to contract rests exclusively with the Council. So they make the selection but the resolution to make that appointment to

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

authorize the contract rests with the governing body. It’s a two part process. The Council’s limitation is it must award the contract unless the proposed compensation is deemed to be unreasonable.

MR. GROOM: And why do we pick this firm; can you go over the process, why we ended up with this firm?

MR. GUHL: We put on the web page many months ago essentially a request for proposal in conformance with, although not using strictly the fare and open process, but in conformance with that process. So we solicited information about the firms. Thirteen or fourteen responded we’ve reviewed those proposals and deemed Remington, Vernick and Arango to be appropriate and recommended it to the Planning Board. The Planning Board ultimately has the decision just as at their reorganization meeting where they selected an in-house planner or an in-house engineer. We went through the same process for consulting planners we received for responses from planning firms and same process, review their qualifications, etc., and recommended the firm.

MR. GROOM: But specifically for this one was between thirteen and fourteen responses you had.

MR. GUHL: There were either thirteen or fourteen engineers… Now some of them in their letter of interest expressed that they did not have an interest in representing the Planning Board or Zoning Board because they represent the applicants. Typically, before the boards and didn’t want to be viewed in conflict.

MR. GROOM: Okay.

MR. GUHL: But there were seven or eight firms that were reviewed thoroughly and based on that, their recommendation based on their price and their expertise.

MR. GROOM: That’s good, thank you Mr. Guhl.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Groom.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. President, if I may through you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Yes sir.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Bill, so this firm will be reviewing plans and appearing in front of the board and basically it’s the administration’s requests; whereas, the ones for the Planning Board and Zoning Board is the Planning and Zoning Board request. So 3G is basically for our Administration…

MR. GUHL: No 3G is an engineering firm appointed by the Planning Board for applications before the Planning Board. This has nothing to do with in-house design of roads or any of that. This is only for applicants.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Our control is through the budget process. The Planning Board gets to pick, but we have to enter into a contract, we have to appropriate money for it.

MR. GUHL: Well, that’s right, although in this case, the funds …

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Escrow.

MR. GUHL: That’s right; they will come through application escrow payment, applicant escrow payment.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: But there still has to be a contract with the town.

MR GUHL: That’s right. Still a contract that sets the rate, sets an amount, which if this were a very very busy time, where the economic climate will change and we might end up coming back with an amendment as to the upset number. If there was so much business… This is a ball park estimate not to exceed at least for this period.

PRESIDETN PONE: I have three thoughts. One, just for clarification, this body I understand with the contract and the budget process we truly have no say on the engineering firm as was said.

MR. GUHL: Now the cases say that in the absence of an unreasonable compensation. If they said our hourly rate is $400.00 an hour, we could say we’re not supporting that. And there could be a battle between the Planning Board and the Council. As to the selection, so long as their proposal of

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

compensation is reasonable, and they meet the license requirements of the job, the Council’s limit is only in that area.

PRESIDENT PONE: That was one, two was the like in the fair and open process, and typically Pay-to- Play is checked. Are we clear on Pay-to-Play?

MR. GUHL: Yes, both these firms are completely within the requirements of the Pay-to-Play.

PRESIDENT PONE: And do we have a signed, I know our part time CFO… Do we have a signed certification of funds?

MR. GUHL: Actually, in this case, although seriously the funds come from an escrow fund. And the escrow is one of the areas where you were allowed to use an appropriation by rider. You have to have a fixed number in the budget. There’s a back section of the budget that allows you to put these funds in a trust fund and charge expenses to it.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Dennis you remember that when the Planning Board attorney violated the Pay-to-Play laws. (Indiscernible) .

PRESIDENT PONE: Absolutely.

MR. GUHL: You’re right, that would be a reason which the Council could, reasonably deny the contract.

PRESIDENT PONE: That’s why I just want all the table cleared on this and we won’t have any problem with another one.

VICE-PRESIDETN YAEDE: Bill, so the administration basically received the RFPs and recommended to the Planning Board to top, how did the process go?

MR. GUHL: We received all the applications. We reviewed them all, looked at the ones that were interested in Planning and Zoning Board, plan review work. Looked at the qualifications, looked at their rate proposal and ultimately decided that these two firms were the firms that we would recommend. But ultimately the Planning Board has the right to say we went the XYZ firm if they’re so inclined.

PRESIDENT PONE: Kevin.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Yes, Mr. President, my final question was the firms that answered this, do we have any firms from Hamilton with offices in… Are Remington and Vernick, Arango…

MR. GUHL: They have offices in a number of places throughout the state, but they do not have one in Hamilton.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Did anybody who answered the RFP have offices in Hamilton?

MR. GUHL: I think one of the firms on the planning side, Community Planning and Grants; they have a different name now. I think they have an office here their principle office is not in Hamilton. But when we looked at their proposal, we didn’t think they were the best ones for the job. They’re also more expensive on an hourly basis then the planning firm. As to the engineering firms that were interested in the Planning and Zoning Board, process, I don’t recall any that were Hamilton based firms.

PRESIDENT PONE: Any questions, Augie, you have a question.

AUGUST SCOTTO, Mark Twain Drive: These are all issues that I’m deeply involved in. The Planning Board has the authority passed by the law of the legislature, the State Legislature to pass things; that means, if I don’t like what they do, I’m going to vote them out of office.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: By changing the Mayor.

MR. SCOTTO: No.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: That’s what you do because the Mayor appoints the Planning Board.

MR. SCOTTO: But what I’m getting at is they’re doing things that a legislative body has the authority to according to the Constitution. The State Legislature voted for this thing here and they shouldn’t have been allowed to do it. What they should do is vote what they feel is good and make an appeal to you people to go over it and say yes or no. That’s the way it should have been handled but they don’t. They

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

pass what they want to pass, and then you stand there and there. You are the Mayor has to stand for it, and get hurt for it. It shouldn’t be that way.

PRESIDENT PONE: It’s a solid point in my book.

MR. SCOTTO: It’s unconstitutional. That’s why I went down to the new Jersey State Board of Education and told them to teach every child in New Jersey the Constitution. And they said, they will think about it. So I want to see more people learn the Constitution.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Augie, that’s a good point.

MR. SCOTTO: Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Mr. Gambino.

ANTONIO C. GAMBINO: Question for you, can the engineering department handle this? Why is this being jobbed out?

MR. GUHL: This is piece of road I’ve been over a few times here, but I’m happy to go over it again.

MR. GAMBINO: No you don’t have to.

MR. GUHL: No, I’m sure there are some members of the public who were not here at earlier discussions of this matter. The work of the engineering office, the planning office and the construction code office is economy driven and what we’re seeing is as everybody who tracks the local economy and the national economy knows is a very very substantial dip in economic activity. The result of which is that the taxpayer has substantially subsidized those three operations, planning, engineering, and inspections.

MR. GAMBINO: If that’s the case then why are you bringing in a company and paying them?

PRESIDENT PONE: Let him finish.

MR. GUHL: Well, currently, the current method for handling this is a very significant in out staff in the engineering office and planning office and the administration’s taking a new direction. There’s… This is part of the reduction in force. We reduced in-house staff because the fact of the matter is whether there’s a lot of activity or a little activity when you have people on staff, you’re paying them, you’re paying their benefits, you’re paying their salaries etc.

MR. GAMBINO: So can I interrupt you for a second. So what you’re saying is that you reduced the in- house staff and you hire outside contractors. Is that what you’re saying, correct?

PRESIDENT PONE: Tony, let him clarify.

MR. GAMBINO: No, don’t interrupt me. I want him to speak, don’t interrupt me, okay, because I want to finish my question.

PRESIDENT PONE: Tony, hold it, hold it, hold it, gavel, gavel, everybody. Tony, you know I’m a pretty good guy up here and I let everybody talk, but keep in mind, that I run this meeting.

MR. GAMBINO: That’s fine.

PRESIDENT PONE: If there’s something I think immediately needs clarification, I’m going to jump in and clarify it and you don’t tell me not to do it, and you don’t tell me not to do it.

MR. GAMBINO: But let him clarify it, he’s the Business Administrator, you’re the Councilman.

PRESIDENT PONE: Do you understand what I’m saying?

MR. GAMBINO: Let him clarify it.

PRESIDENT PONE: Do you understand what I’m saying? You don’t ask him a question unless you come to me anyway. I’m pretty lenient about that stuff.

MR. GAMBINO: I’m already through him. I already went through him.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

PRESIDENT PONE: I have one simple thing to say, that’s all I had to say. I’m entitled to say it is all I’m telling you from protocol. You can talk to Mr. Guhl anytime you want as long as we’re not disobeying protocol, that’s all. Go ahead; you can finish with this.

MR. GAMBINO: Finish your question; go ahead about the contract, bringing in outside contractors, which is wasting the taxpayer’s money.

PRESIDENT PONE: No, with these contracts, it’s the opposite. The money is only spent if those services are used unlike employees, which are here all the time, whether their services are used or not. That’s all I wanted to say.

MR. GAMBINO: Now, I’m going to ask you a question. So in other words, the reduction in staff in the engineering department, did they retire or did you lay them off? Because what it appears to me, what he’s saying is that people are trying to feed their families, but they wind up the enemies; now, answer that question if you’re a smart man.

PRESIDENT PONE: Now, you didn’t ask me a question, you made a comment.

MR. GAMBINO: I just did.

PRESIDENT PONE: I don’t agree with your comment.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Tony, the choice we have is do we raise taxes to continue to pay people when there isn’t work there. Or do we go this route which is Remington and Vernick, if there’s no work.

MR. GAMBINO: To me, it appears like it’s a round robin here because at 3N, you got a $50,000.00 maximum and you got a $20,000.00 one up there, where you can just hire a person for $75,000.00.

PRESIDENT PONE: They’re only paid if they work, and only paid through developer’s escrow. Unlike…

MR. GAMBINO: It’s like somebody’s doing a kabuki dance.

PRESIDENT PONE: Do you understand what I’m saying?

MR. GAMBINO: That’s what it sounds like.

PRESIDENT PONE: You understand it?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Mr. Gambino you’re proposing we raise taxes instead?

MR. GAMBINO: Don’t put words in my mouth.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: That’s what you’re saying..

MR. GAMBINO: Don’t do that.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: That’s exactly what you’re saying because that’s…

MR. GAMBINO: You’re making it funny now and it’s not funny.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: I’m not being funny. It’s the difficult choice that we have, either we raise taxes, or we have to reduce our staff.

MR. GAMBINO: But my point is that, and the people should get smart here and see that this is going to be a continuing thing. That’s all I got to say. You’re going to see more and more of these resolutions popping up and then you’re going to see if you’re going to b saving money.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Gambino.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. President, if I may, Antonio probably asked a question better than I did because I was just under the impression that these two resolutions were procedures by the Zoning and Planning, but if I understood your explanation Bill just now, is these were services that our municipal employees were doing?

MR. GUHL: That’s right, they are.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

COUNCILMAN KENNY: At least in part because we’ve always had outside engineers and outside planners.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: I had missed part of the agenda session, so that was my fault. I had thought that what we’re looking at was the procedure for planning and zoning, that they select someone to do the process and then we really don’t have the option of turning it down. I didn’t get during that discussion that this was work that was done by our engineering and planning departments. I thought this was just separate; kind of like the Zoning Board and Planning Board has an attorney. Now it’s a little more clear in my mind. Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Kevin, Mr. Capodanno.

VINCENT CAPODDANO, 4134 South Broad Street: Just a couple questions. First I understand that government is in a bind. Even when I was on Council, I use to talk about productivity and an attrition program, etc. So we can sit here and argue another day… I think the main thing with me and a lot of people in the town is like our concerns if this is genuine. Are you doing it because it’s a genuine thing to do and are people losing their jobs okay and are the contractors going to be making just as much money as if we kept them. So the first thing I’d like to say is with this company here, are they the lowest bidder? Did they come in with the lowest bid? I’m talking about not just here with the Planning Department.

PRESIDENT PONE: This is a professional service contract.

MR. GUHL: A professional service contract, it is not publicly bid. That’s an exception to the public contracts law that allows for proposals that are not exclusively, not the best price.

MR. CAPODANNO: I know that, I didn’t ask that. Because one of the things that the Gilmore administration… When I was on Council for four years, one of the things that; I was under enormous pressure by the public for, was the fact that we would probably be going with the lowest bid, alright, even with professional service contracts. All I’m asking is that was this the lowest bid?

MR. GUHL: I don’t recall… I think actually, the planning one the price was the lowest.

MR. CAPODANNO: I’m not talking about the planning one; I’m talking about the service that they’re going to provide the township itself. Are they the lowest bidder? You know the answer, come on.

MR. GUHL: Well, the answer is I don’t recall whether on the engineering side… I remember that the engineering price was consistent. It was in a very narrow band that was consistent throughout.

MR. CAPODANNO: Okay, you know something; I’m not going to argue with you, you know the answer.

MR. GUHL: There were either thirteen or fourteen engineering proposals.

MR. CAPODANNO: You know the answer? The answer is…

PRESIDENT PONE: Gavel, gavel, Vinnie, listen, I haven’t done this before because I didn’t feel the need for it. But we’re not going to badger Mr. Guhl. If he gives you an answer, that’s his answer. If you cannot believe him, that’s okay.

MR. CAPODANNO: Can the public be supplied the bids?

MR. GUHL: The public can certainly review all proposals.

MR. CAPODANNO: Okay.

PRESIDENT PONE: And the contracts, absolutely.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: They’re all public documents.

MR CAPODANNO: Okay, so then I can go to the Clerk’s office and ask for the information.

MR. GUHL: Yes you may.

MR. CAPODANNO: And I’ll be supplied it. The second thing is with this company here was the engineering firm. Was anybody from this township or anybody in the transition team or an official at all that has anything to do with this township an employee with this company?

MR. GUHL: Not that I know of.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. CAPODANNO: Even the transition team?

MR. GUHL: Not that I know of. I’m not saying it’s not possible. Again, I don’t know of anyone who either works for the township or was on the transit on the transition team who works for this company.

MR. CAPODOANNO: Okay, so if the company gets up, I’d like to just have that question asked by or I’d like to ask them that question. The other thing is when do you, where do your figures show this township run into a down turn when it came to economic development, about what year did the escrow fees and everything start to dip?

MR. GUHL: I only have the financial statement from the fiscal year that ended June 30th of last year and that was the financial statement that showed a $636,000.00 deficit in the construction code office trust fund. But there is a correlation between what happens in the construction code office and what happens in the engineering and planning offices. It’s just that the engineering and planning offices are not handled as a trust fund; the law doesn’t permit it. But to the extent that there was a deficit, I could know no circumstance where you would run a deficit in the construction office but not run a similar one in the planning and engineering office if you’re providing all the services in-house.

MR. CAPDOANNO: So increase fees to offset all this?

MR. GUHL: No, not increasing them for reasonable fees, I mean, if you say we’re going to sell apples and we’re going to sell them for a million dollars a piece, and five people buy them, I guess it would work. But the fact of the matter is the increase in the fees in the construction office. We raised fees in two areas in the construction office in the time that I’ve been here. Those fees were brought up to the… For everybody’s benefit, in a number of towns, the State of New Jersey provides construction code services and charges fees just as we do. And we modified the fees in the areas that were not at the same level the state charges earlier this year. And that fee increase would have generated this year, based on last year’s level of service, something on the order of $100,000.00, $125,000.00. We ran a $636,000.00 deficit last year. And we’re going to run a greater deficit this year in that office and the same thing can be said in planning and engineering.

MR. CAPODANNO: You ran a $636,000.00 deficit.

MR. GUHL: Well, the cost of the construction office was $636,000.00. This is the end of fiscal year ending last July, not while this administration was here. The Bowman Company, a financial firm did the annual financial statement for the year ending June 30th of 2007, and showed in the construction office that expenses exceeded revenues by $636,000.00. That number will be worse for the fiscal year ending June 30th of this year.

MR. CAPODANNO: Is that all attributed to employee salaries?

MR. GUHL: Well, it was just a comparison of… I will tell you this, employee salaries…

MR. CAPODANNO: You’re saying there’s a $636,000.00 deficit in a department that’s run by the municipality. Basically, the cost of that department is really attributed to pensions, health benefits, salaries, etc.

MR. GUHL: That’s right.

MR. CAPDAONNO: So the people that you are going to eliminate… This company here, who are they going to replace? Like who’s getting replaced? Who’s going that this company is going to replace?

MR. GUHL: That’s not in the construction code office. I used that because the three offices, in terms of the amount of work are limited. The construction code office doesn’t work if the Planning Board, the don’t get much work if the Planning Board and Zoning Board aren’t very active. If there are not a lot of applications for the Planning Board and Zoning Board, the construction code office is not going to be as active.

MR. CAPODANNO: Okay, so you what you’re really basically what you’re saying is that you’re eliminating $636,000.00 worth of jobs.

MR. GUHL: Actually, what I’m saying is that the reductions that we made in the planning and engineering office relates in the two resolutions that are here. The reduction in the construction code office… And as I said, that was the deficit from last year, $636,000.00. It’s going to be a seven digit number this year. It will exceed a million dollars, this year. The reductions that were proposed in force in the construction code office will not make that office self liquidate. The revenues will not equal the expenses even with all layoffs, assuming that there isn’t a radical increase in the amount of business. And I except that in a down turning economy like this, there will be a certain amount of subsidy simply

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

because you can’t bring the office down to the staffing level that is only supported by the current revenue. You have to accept that there is some fluctuation. And there are years in which your revenues will modestly if the economy is active, modestly exceed the cost of the office. But in the current climate, the deficits were so staggering, that reductions in force were necessary in the construction office, and in planning and in zoning, in support of the taxpayer. And that’s why the decision was made. These offices are the planning office and the engineering office, and yes, there were reductions in force there as well.

MR. CAPODANNO: Council President, the reason why I’m asking these questions is because a lot of people ask me these questions on the street and you know I get around so I’m just clarifying some things, that’s all. Thanks for given me the time to talk. The planner I guess is going right, the planner and the chief engineer?

MR. GUHL: Actually, two planners… actually, three planners in the planning office, the planning director, he’s retiring at the end of the month. There was also an assistant planner who was not a permanent employee. By that, I mean, didn’t have civil service permanent status, who was terminated a while ago because it was not required that we go through State Department of Personnel to do that. There were a number, a much greater number of reductions in the engineering office because the engineering functions are more than just plan review. And they also do design work on capital projects and as I’ve explained to the public before, given the township’s economic circumstances right now, I don’t anticipate a robust capital program that would require maintaining the same level of engineering staff to do the design work on landscaping or on road construction projects, etc. And there’s a significant economy that comes from using outside sources for those purposes.

MR. CAPODANNO: Well just two more thoughts. Is the Council going to e able to review this at the end of the year, if there’s enough swing in the economy and things start to; if there’s an economic development starts to prosper in Hamilton Township, things change okay and savings, and you’re idea here of basically privatizing doesn’t work out the way it should work out, you saving money; would the Council will be able to review it or the Council sit down have and have an independent auditor with them. You got to think independent of that, this checks and balances. There’s a lot of times where I’m saying that you’re shady or nothing, but your figuring and the way you think about things, may not coincide with the way Council thinks about things. They’re independent, they’re the legislative body you’re the administrative body. And I think the Council should be able to review at the end of the year, if this is all right money’s being saved and the township is prospering from it. And I think they should be able to sit down with you. This is pretty heavy when you talk about figures like this. When I was on Council, I had to get somebody other than myself to help me out and look into things, so that I knew figures because you know what I’m talking about. So I think that you should be able to have; where not accountants. So I think that you should be able to sit down at the end of the year and review this and have somebody help you review this. And he should be able to give you all the numbers and you should really examine it, that’s for the money concerns. And then one more thing, when Augie came up here he was talking about the Planning Board that he was worried about the Planning Board basically making decisions and stuff like that. I think you overruled him and basically put the end to the transit village, right, which the Planning Board okayed it. So I think there’s a lot of times where the Planning Board can make decisions and do certain things that you feel that you want to change something, I think you have certain powers. I don’t think the Planning Board can basically dictate all the time to the Council, if the Council thinks that there’s an adverse…

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: If we couldn’t stop 680 homes from being approved in one night.

PRESIDENT PONE: The Planning Board approved the housing and there wasn’t anything Council could do about it. But we were able to… The only reason we were able to stop the other side is because the redevelopment plan was designed by ordinance and we rescinded the ordinance. But the Planning Board approved the part that we truly objected to and we couldn’t have… I mean, former Council could have done something in the beginning of it.

MR. CAPODANNO: I think Council had powers to do certain things.

PRESIDENT PONE: From the beginning.

MR. CAPODANNO: But they didn’t say, we all know what he did. I don’t sit up here and defend them, so I think that the Council is pretty powerful when it comes to like telling the people how they feel about how something and making the Planning Board understand, okay that if they’re going to do something that’s going to adversely effect neighborhoods that they’re going to feel the wrath of the Council. But thank you Mr. Guhl. You run a good meeting.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. GUHL: One thing, you still have the Council review, and of course, the Council reviews the budget document, that we’re proposing by the administration on a spending plan. But I would want to add that it would not… Even if the economy were to change it would not be my recommendation that we go back to in-house staff for planning and engineering simply because that situation leaves you to the vagaries of the economy. In a robust economy, things are fine, but when the economy isn’t robust, the taxpayers are subsidized. This system deals with that problem because the engineer and planner only work when there are applications before the board. If there are none, they won’t come here, and they won’t get paid. So you eliminate the risk the outside risk of having employees who must keep busy in whether or not to being subsidized by the taxpayer. So my recommendation even if the economy were to change, will be to continue doing this service outside.

MR. CAPODANNO: Sometimes you got some good points. (Laughter). But I hope that something like this, I can see how you think. When it comes to like the whole workforce, I think sometimes that you’re… I’m not going to like say it I think you’re one of the best that I’ve seen. But I think you’re a little rigid and I think that sometimes you have to loosen up a little bit. But I think you have to understand sometimes that you could be adversely affecting people’s lives, when you’re making decisions that could not be correct. So you’re pretty good at what you’re doing but I think sometimes you got to look… Nobody’s perfect.

MR. GUHL: Make no mistake I know the reductions in force affect people’s lives. I absolutely know that this is a painful process. A number of Council members have said in the past, but the taxpayer is paying by the cost of services. And so, this is a difficult choice and in certain quarters, it’s going to be an unpopular choice. I don’t for a minute, believe me, I handed out personally a number of layoff notices so I know how painful this is. And I don’t want anybody to think that the administration and certainly the Council is indifferent to that. But it is a painful, painful choice, and at the end of the day hard decisions have to be made. You can’t just ignore them. We can’t say, well we’re going to stick our head in the sand and send out bigger tax bills.

MR. CAPODANNO: The whole idea here is there’s two branches of government. You’re the branch of government that deals with the administrative part of government, the other branch of government deals with legislative branch and there’s checks and balances. That I think that sometimes that… I ain’t saying that you supersede them or anything like that. Sometimes, I think that the Council has to challenge you more. Especially, when it comes to layoffs and you’re hiring people. Okay, now I know that was a bad decision.

PRESIDENT PONE: Can we move on, thank you, thank you.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. President, if I may? Councilman Capodanno raised a good issue and though he didn’t get a specific answer to it, it raises enough concern for me that I think we should be able to see all the professional service contracts so we can look at the prices of what did come in. I wouldn’t know if we should move forward on that without having seen that, number one. And number two, with all due respect to my good friend Councilman Kenny, he almost identified the problem here is that if my only choice is to vote for this or vote to raise taxes… Although, I’m not averse to raising taxes, I mean, for God sake, I just did that. That’s unacceptable to me, I’m hoping for the administration to come and say you don’t just have two choices, vote for this or raise taxes. Here’s two or three alternatives; one might be to not raise taxes as much. And that’s what I’m not seeing here is… It’s either this or that, now I need some more options to understand where the administration is going, so on and so forth. There’s two issues I have with these right now, one was raised by the Councilman coming up and saying well, what were all the bids? Is this the lowest bids and since we didn’t get an answer, I don’t know that we should move forward with this.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Well, I think we have to move forward for a couple of reasons. Number one, the Planning Board has already arranged or has chosen Remington and Vernick to be its engineer. I’d also note that these contracts only extend through January 31, so we’re looking at seven months here. And Kevin, lastly, I don’t think there are other choices. The administration’s proposed cuts of a little over three million dollars in spending. And fortunately, the vast majority of our budget is spent on salaries. There really is no choice but to move forward with that and it is painful. You hate to see anyone lose a job, but the only other option is to raise taxes and I’m certainly not prepared to raise taxes $3 million dollars. We had to go through a terrible tax increase just recently because of the mess that we were left with. And now, the goal is to stabilize the tax rate to keep it flat or equal because people in this town are hurting for property taxes. They’re hurting in this state. We live in a state where fifty percent of the people say they want to move out and the reason they want to move out is taxes.

MR. GAMBINO: Yeah, but who’s fault is that?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: And that’s the fault of every level of government and we have to deal with the hand we’ve been dealt. And if that means cutting expenses, that’s what we have to do. And you have to recognize what we’re doing here is Remington and Vernick… It’s a $20,000.00 maximum. They only

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

get paid if they do work and they only get paid by developers who are coming in for approvals. They may go through a year and make $1,000.00 to January 31; they may max out at the $20,000.00. If economic development picks up, they may get more. But you know what; $20,000.00 isn’t going to save a job for anyone. And as I said, it’s a painful choice, but some things we have to do. And when I ran, along with Dennis and Tom, I always heard from people, are you going to raise taxes? I always told people no, I won’t promise that I can cut your taxes; I’m going to try to stabilize your taxes. And that’s what we’re trying to do here. Because there is no way to really cut taxes with all the mandates that are imposed on us by the state and all of the things that we have. But I have no problem with moving forward tonight, and I think we’re compelled to move forward tonight in light of the action of the Planning Board, to hire Remington and Vernick; and then of course on this next one for Clark and Caton as well.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Kenny.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: Question for Lindsay; Lindsay, just to touch upon, the Council has no say, correct?

MR. BURBAGE, Director of Law: No, well…

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: In who they pick?

MR. BURBAGE: Right, the Planning Board and Zoning Board… They’re supposed to… They have a duty to review all of the applications that are submitted, the RFP’s that are requested online, and they review them. Their responsibility is to pick the one that is the most professional, the one they feel could do the best job for Hamilton Township, and is most cost affective within that professional aspect. Once they have done that they then determine which professional service provider they want, and then present that to Council. The Council can and must ratify unless you can specifically point to… This is the example Mr. Guhl gave earlier was if they want $400.00 an hour… That’s’ not the case, I believe Mr. Guhl even pointed out that it would not… There were higher bidders and I, several weeks ago looked at these and we’re pretty much in the same limelight as far as their hourly rate and what they did. So I guess the short answer is no, you really don’t have much choice in this particular matter, because state statute required it to allow the Zoning Board and Planning Board to pick their own professionals.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Lindsay. Any other questions, Mr. Groom.

BILL GROOM, 8 Sparrow Drive: I’m a member of the Zoning Board, and I just want to comment a little bit. The township’s I guess assistant engineer, comes before us on many applications and goes over various engineering aspects of the application. But I know the township also had a township engineer, I think that job was eliminated, or is going to be eliminated; the township engineer?

MR. GUHL: Yeah, the prior township engineer retired and the position has not been replaced.

MR. GROOM: Yeah, and he had a professional PE license, and I’d also served on the transition team for EPI. So one of the most shocking things that I discovered is that township engineer made in excess of a $100,000.00, and for some reason, $170,000.00 sticks in my mind, which is more than the Mayor, more than the director of the department. That doesn’t count benefits. I mean, so it’s a significant amount of money, and if we don’t have the work to pay for that, and keep him full time. Then this makes a whole lot of sense. I mean, $20,000.00 isn’t a whole lot of money. And in response to what Mr. Meara said about maybe seeing the other RFP’s… You know, I said to my colleagues on the Zoning Board, regardless of who comes before us to represent us, whether it’s the Planner, the Engineer; you know whose decision it is? It’s ours as members of that board. It’s up to them to give us the professional advice on a particular project, when it’s us. We have to live with our decisions and we have to still ask questions and we do. The biggest problems that we had in the past, is those so-called rubber stampers that you’ve heard me speak of many times before, particular the Planning Board that rubber stamped the planning over by the train station development that nearly got this town in trouble. We don’t have that anymore. So regardless of whether this application or this resolution or the next one, you still have a Planning and Zoning Board that ultimately has to make the decision. And we have to rely on the administration to administrate. The things that they are doing from my vantage point, they are doing right. They’re cutting back and doing things differently is what government has to do. And I don’t think Council should micromanage the administration. You don’t have to do that any more. You still have to ask questions and do your job, but Gilmore in his incompetence aren’t here anymore. Let these guys administrate. But there is one suggestion I can make, is that I think you ought to go back to doing business the way you did years ago. Council should meet on a Monday and go over the agenda. And then if you have questions, come back the night of the meeting, on a Tuesday, and come back a half hour early and you do a short agenda session. And that’s when you see, for example, Mr. Meara, is asking questions, he wants to see RFPs or something. Well, he asked that on Monday, and Tuesday, you see him before the meeting.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Well Bill, we get the agenda packets… This time we got them on Monday, we usually we get it Friday. So between Friday and Tuesday, you can call up the administration if you had a question.

PRESIDENT PONE: That’s the main difference. Tom’s right, with this administration…

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Were able to make phone calls.

PRESIDENT PONE: I can call up Mr. Guhl anytime… And believe me, he’s here from about six to six by my calculation. And if I call here at 6:30 in the morning, he answers his phone.

MR. GROOM: Okay, I was given the impression that you’re not getting the information until the night of the meeting, and that doesn’t work.

PRESIDENT PONE: he’s extremely accessible, they’re extremely easy to get a hold of, and they are incredibly accommodating. It’s not like what we dealt with the last couple of years.

MR. GROOM: Yeah, okay good. But I would encourage you to support this resolution. Let the Planning Board and Zoning Board do their job. They’re the ones that are going to have to vote. Just give us the tools to do it. And as far as the… I’m going into the next resolution, the next company came before us and we had them… I was very impressed with them. And they really haven’t done a lot of work with us. But it seems like excellent individuals, but even so we still have to make the decision and do the right… ask the right questions. Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Groom, good questions. Mark.

MARK CONOVER, 233 Trenton Avenue: I have to agree with what Mr. Guhl’s saying. This township needs to be run more like a business rather than a fishbowl of money. I hate to see people downsize through jobs. I’ve had it happen to me, and it’s a bitch, it really hurts. But the simple fact of the matter is, is the pain of a few helps alleviate the pain of the many. And unfortunately, they’re tough decisions to make and I agree with him. Another thing I want to mention is with regard to bids. Lowest bidder is not always a bargain. Lowest bidder, you got to check to make sure that you got competence. How many times have you had to come back for a resolution for more money because of the cost overrides? So the lowest bidder is not… Normally in business, when we look at… from my standpoint in business, when I look at highest bidder and the lowest bidder, I throw them out. I don’t want to talk to either one of them. Then I start to focus on competence, what they’re offering, and it’s got to be core competence of the company that’s going to be doing this because this is important technical stuff. So I support this because I say if you got to go stand up I give you credit, the way it’s been working, we’ve been running in a deficit. You can’t run a business for too long with a deficit; somebody’s got to pay somewhere. Its tough decisions, I applaud you for trying to make a change, a positive change, the only way it didn’t work, let’s do something else. And it’s only; I think as Dave had pointed out, it’s only until January we get seven months. If it doesn’t work after that, we do something else.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mark.

MR. CONOVER: Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: There are times unfortunately, there’s many limitations, in government, but at times, we’re required to take a low bid. But I think your point is perfect. That’s’ exactly why we’re not required to on a professional service contract. Because the administration can then look at the merits of the companies and as long as they’re within reason, we can pick them based on their qualifications rather than just strictly the price. Thanks for that Mark. Any other comments from the public? If not, roll call Madam Clerk.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Well, I’ll tell you, I wish a lot of these people that spoke tonight were with us the last three years when we were fighting the mess that Dave, Dennis, then Kelly and I had to fight with the former administration. And our job is to review every aspect of local government and bring the costs down, and that’s what we’re doing for the taxpayer, so I vote yes.

PRESIDENT PONE: Yes, and I’ll add that it is our core goal and actually requirement as a Council is our fiduciary responsibility to the tax payers. And Mr. Guhl has said it many times, we’ve said it many times, nobody’s having fun with this. We’re not… This is very difficult. We talked to a lot of these people on a regular basis. And Mr. Guhl has been a man about this reduction in force by actually talking to people individually. It’s one of the toughest things that they’ll ever do. As Mark said, tough decisions are what you elected us for. This is why we changed the Mayor, you changed the Mayor last year because you knew that tough decisions had to be made, and he’s making them. So I have to support this because it’s my job, my fiduciary job to the taxpayers of Hamilton Township. And that’s what we’re

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

doing; we are going to run this like a business. And a business can’t survive very long with consistent deficits, so I vote yes.

PASSED: Ayes – 4. Nays – 1. Abstentions –0 Ayes: Council members – Kenny, Goodwin, Yaede and Pone Nay: Councilman Meara

08-228 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AGREEMENT FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES WITH PHILIP B. CATON AND CLARKE CATON HINTZ FOR PLANNING CONSULTING SERVICES TO THE HAMILTON TOWNSHIP PLANNING BOARD AND THE HAMILTON TOWNSHIP ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2009 IN AN AMOUNT NOT TO EXCEED $75,000 AGGREGATE MAXIMUM

Ms. Yaede moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Goodwin; approved four to one by Council.

PASSED: Ayes – 4. Nays – 1. Abstentions –0 Ayes: Council members – Kenny, Goodwin, Yaede and Pone Nay: Councilman Meara

08-229 RESOLUTION AMENDING AGREEMENT WITH HORIZON BLUE CROSS & BLUE SHIELD OF NEW JERSEY FOR MUNICIPAL EMPLOYEES HEALTH BENEFITS FOR THE TERM JUNE 1, 2007 TO JUNE 30, 2008

Mr. Goodwin moved to adopt, seconded by Ms. Yaede; unanimously approved by Council after the following discussion:

PRESIDENT PONE: This resolution is simply to put our current contract in line with the municipal fiscal year. It’s been moved and seconded, any comments from the public, roll call please.

08-230 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AGREEMENT WITH CIGNA HEALTHCARE FOR MUNICIPAL EMPLOYEES HEALTH BENEFITS FOR TERM JULY 1, 2008 TO JUNE 30, 2009 ($9,137,622.00)

Mr. Kenny moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Meara; unanimously approved by Council after the following discussion:

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Mr. President, I move resolution 3J, and I would note that Mr. Guhl indicated to us earlier, this will be bringing a cost savings of over a million dollars to the township. And what also struck me was the fact that Benecard which saved us $600,000 last year?

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: About that, yes.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: That $600,000.00 from our previous prescription plan, now we’re going to save more money on the prescription plan. And last year, we pushed the administration to shop these contracts, and they never did it. It was only through the action of Council and some interested citizens that we got Benecard to the table to save that money.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: They fought us on it.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: They caught us on it, and so now, through competition, the administration is saving the taxpayers over a million dollars for the equivalent coverage. So I think this is exactly the track that we have to be on. And I commend Mr. Guhl and the Mayor for their actions here.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Second, Mr. President, just a question. I know part of this was discussed during the agenda session before I got in. How are we going to handle… I hadn’t heard from Benecard, understand what I guess, what their input is on this or are we comparing apples to apples, apples to oranges?

MR. GUHL: Actually, I explained to the Council earlier, that we also solicited… The Benecard contract runs until June 30th. So the reason you don’t see a prescription drug component to this right now is that that’s not… Doesn’t need to be on the table yet. But the Horizon did need to be because we were extending the contract. But when we solicited the cost of the current level of prescription program, Benecard was not the least expensive. Medco was less expensive. And so it was not… Irrespective of whether we switched to CIGNA on health we were not going to be recommending a renewal with Benecard because they were not the most cost competitive with the same coverage. But in fact, our recommendation is going to be that the prescription portion of coverage is also going to be with Cigna. Cigna’s proposal to us was that they wanted it to be both and not just for economic reasons; and I explained this earlier, but I’ll explain it again. Part of their thinking is that to manage the care of the employees, retirees, and their dependents, it’s best to have all the medical and prescription information. And the example I use is if I don’t renew my Lipitor Prescription when it’s due to be renewed, Cigna’s

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

approach is, they’re going to monitor that. You’re on Lipitor, you’re supposed to renew on June the 5th, you didn’t get your prescription filled. We know you need that medication, in order to maintain your health and if you don’t get it, it affects your health. It also affects the cost of medical services. So their managing the medical and prescription side to make sure that there’s a cost containment element in that. That’s the basis in which… And as I explained earlier, we need to examine Cigna on cost, on service, and on something called disruption which has to do with the number of physicians, and other institutions, medical institutions that are in both the Cigna plan and the Horizon plan. And based on those, Cigna were deemed to be rated out very highly and much, much less expensive. So that was the rationale for all that.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Has there been a… At this point, has there been I guess discussions with regard to recipients of the program, the employees or the representatives?

MR. GUHL: There have not, but based on action the Council takes tonight, we have prepared letters. If the Council takes the administration’s recommendation, we’ve prepared letters and we will be scheduling meetings where Cigna will meet with all employees and retirees who are interested in coming. They also have a very informative web page etc. But I did think it was premature to speak for bargaining units before I spoke to the Council about a contract that requires the Council’s approval.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: But at that point, when you speak with the unions or recipients it’ll be a done deal if we voted in, or is there like a period where…

MR. GUHL: Our obligation… if the Council selects this, when it’s accompanying, actually close to $1.1 million in savings, our obligation is to make sure that the program requirements, and this is the way prices were solicited that the services that were provided for both the prescription and the medical, are the equivalent or better than the current provider. If they are not, then we have to negotiate the meeting for the change. So it was pointed out as a condition, that the service must be equivalent or better in every area.

PRESIDENT PONE: Kelly.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: This was for the representatives from Cigna.

PRESIDENT PONE: Mr. Clark.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: If you can come to the podium?

PRESIDENT PONE: Just for the Clerk’s Office, would you identify yourself?

GEORGE CLARK, From Cigna Health Care:

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: Thank you, Mr. Clark, how long would it take …? Given an example, and Bill Guhl has mentioned, should someone be receiving treatment in Philadelphia, they realize with the switch, their physician will be under your plan. How long would it take for that person to be approved and to make sure that they don’t lose coverage additional fees, etc, not coming out of their pocket?

MR. CLARK: The process is very short, it’s… As Mr. Guhl had mentioned earlier, there’s a form that every employee will get that outlines the process. It’s called transitional care; they complete the form and submit it to us. There’s a nurse that reviews it with their providers to make sure that happens nearly instantaneously. In less than two weeks, we would certainly be in touch with them. If there’s a… We’ve instructed Mr. Guhl and his staff, if there’s somebody that has a more urgent need that they are of a high level of concern, because of maybe a procedure they have scheduled for July 1st or July 2nd or something like that, we will bring that to their attention much sooner than the normal two week process.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: How far would you go out? If a procedure is scheduled for July 1st?

MR. CLARK: Typically, if there’s a provider that’s… Again, this situation that we’re talking about, is for health care providers that are currently participating in the Blue Cross network and not in the Cigna network, which is going to be a very rare occasion as Mr. Guhl explained earlier. But should it occur, and should that situation be approved through transitional care, the standard would be up to ninety days. There’s certainly many situations that would extend longer than ninety days, perfect example would be pregnancy. We’re not going to make a woman who’s in a pregnancy, go get a different OB.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: Okay. So as far as switching over, messaging this to employees how is Cigna… and Mr. Guhl mentioned earlier, their own letter, but how is Cigna prepared to help with that transition?

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. CLARK: We have numerous representatives available for Mr. Guhl and his staff at the various locations that we’ve identified. We’re prepared to do meetings, whether it be face to face, also with conference calls available so spouses can call in so it’s not just for the employees, in case there’s somebody that needs to… a spouse can call in and ask questions, so not only in face to face meetings, or phone, but we also helped draft letters that are going to be going out with pertinent information that people need to know over the next few weeks and months to come.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: So you’ll be prepared to have someone on site throughout the change process, the first month or two.

MR. CLARK: Just to be clear, at scheduled times not continuously.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: Scheduled times, yes, yes.

MR. CLARK: Scheduled times, prescheduled and notified.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: How fast can you get the new cards out?

MR. CLARK: Based on the implementation timeline, that we set forth when we began talking recently, and based on the timeline of this meeting, we had said that the ID cards could be delivered to people’s homes… There’s some pieces of information that we need from the employees and potentially from Blue Cross Blue Shield and Benecard, presuming we get those in a reasonable time frame, and our experience tells us we would. We expect everyone to be in our system and affectively get care on July 1st. ID cards are nice to have, but they are not as necessary to actually get care without any problem. The ID cards would come.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: So that is part of their application.

MR. CLARK: They have that and we actually also have cardboard, temporary ID cards. Not name cards, but temporary ID cards, non-personalized, no names on them, but the group name, group number, claim address, all the pertinent information so that if a provider calls us, that we be able to verify that person has coverage.

MR. GUHL: You or Cigna web page, you can actually print your ID card, once you’re enrolled in the system as of July 1st.

MR. CLARK: Correct. Yes, going back to July 1st, having people in our system being able to access care, it means they can also access the online system, which is mycigna.com and they can print out a temporary ID Card that they can take to their provider with them, presuming they didn’t get one, or their cards were lost it or whatever.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: I think it might be helpful if maybe you can schedule… and it’s just a recommendation that maybe have someone on site before the days were winding up with Blue Cross Blue Shield and we’re getting ready to transfer over if that’s the wish of Council that you have someone on site so that you can… So the unions can reach out. We’ll have someone on site. We’ll answer any type of questions you may have. I think if there’s any kind of discern with that.

MR. CLARK: It’s, as I mentioned, kind of multi-prompt approach of face to face, through the mail, telephone possibly. So obviously, communicating is going to be key to satisfying…

MR. GUHL: I believe we’re looking to hold meetings that accommodate people don’t work the basic day schedule.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Bill said something important; he said that you make phone calls if someone’s not renewing their prescriptions.

MR. CLARK: In certain parts of our clinical expertise, one of the things that we’re able to do is identify certain plan participants that are in what’s known as disease management. So again, it’s a voluntary program. It’s not a mandated; you can opt out of the program but presuming you’re in the program and allowing us to help you manage your disease like cardiac. One of the things we would be monitoring is prescription adherence. And often times, a phone call is actually made not necessarily to the member, but to the provider, to let them know did you know that Mr. Guhl is not taking his Lipitor on a scheduled basis, so when he comes in next time, and his cholesterol is not under control, don’t think it’s the wrong medication, make sure you talk to him about adherence to his medication.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: I assume you have mail order prescriptions.

MR. CLARK: Absolutely.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: Final question, access to clinical trials.

MR. CLARK: Clinical trials… The way I answer the question is the benefits and everything else as Mr. Guhl had said are guaranteed to be equal to or better. As far as clinical trials and studies, they’re typically not covered under the realm of health insurance today or with Horizon or…

PRESIDENT PONE: Many clinical studies are paid for by clinics.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: But you provide information on clinical trials?

MR. CLARK: There’s a host of information on our web site. We had teamed up a well-known source called Web Md and there’s a host of information that they provide along with Healthwise a health encyclopedia.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Do you have out of network if somebody’s on vacation or out of the country and you process participating hospitals around the United States.

MR. CLARK: We do, Cigna has a national network as well with more than 500,000 physicians.

PRESIDENT PONE: Any other questions?

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Not for this gentleman Mr. President, but I’m wondering out loud… I see Mr. Schroeder and Mitch Kirkuff in the audience. And I don’t know if they’re prepared to make any public comments on this, but I understand Mr. Guhl, Bill had indicated that he wanted to get this through Council before you sat with the unions, and I don’t know… I don’t think anything precludes this. Personally, I don’t have a problem with this if this is the feel of the administration and taxpayers and municipal employees. But I would have liked to have seen the input, first that if there are some big problems prior to us voting on it. Because once we vote on it, it’s done. So…

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: What problems do you anticipate? What problems? We just told you that the services are equal or better, what problems?

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Well, first of all, Councilman Goodwin, I’m not sure because I’m not one of the union members or the employees here…

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: The union contract says equal or better, what problems do you anticipate?

COUNCILMAN MEARA: If you will let me finish, if you will let me finish… Tom, I don’t know where you’re coming from, I’m just asking a question.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: I don’t know where you’re coming from all the time Kevin.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Well, you don’t know where I’m coming from all the time, if you just ask rather than getting all upset and arrogant.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Well, they just told you…

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Here’s what I’m saying Tom, is that I don’t know if these employees have changed a provider in the past and it presented problems without hearing from them. I understand what Mr. Guhl said that their only requirement is to make sure that there is something equal to or better. And that he wanted to come to the Council first. What I’m saying is until he meets with them, I don’t know what their concerns are and that if there are good concerns but I’ve already voted for it. Once the cow’s out of the barn, I can’t collect it, that’s all.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Mr. Clark, what percentage of the doctors in the two networks and the hospitals?

MR. CLARK: Sorry, could you say that again?

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: The percentage of doctors in both networks and the percentage of hospitals in the two networks, in New Jersey…

MR. CLARK: By both networks, you’re comparing Blue Cross and Cigna. Although I don’t have exact percentage, the rough numbers are in the mid to high ninety percent overlap of providers. Hospitals being higher than that since you can count those a little bit easier.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: And there’s a million dollar savings.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. CLARK: Closer to $1.1 based on Mr. Guhl’s input.

PRESIDENT PONE: Anyone else about the type; and Mr. Kirkuff, I was just going to say, you guys are certainly welcome to comment on the resolution. Thank you Mr. Clark.

MITCH KIRKUFF, President of CWA 1042: I’d like to make one comment. I don’t want to get into a big long discussion here tonight, or in an argument with anybody. But technically, you’re supposed to come to the union first before you make a decision of this nature; regarding changes in benefits, terms and conditions of employment, and give the union an opportunity to go over and make some kind of determination that wasn’t done here.

MR. GUHL: I didn’t think that to be an obligation based on the case of this but… And I will tell you that I think my first obligation… What you don’t want is the Council to hear from the union about what the administration is proposing, in any area. And so, I felt my first obligation is to the Council with regard to this. The requirement in the cases is that the municipality is does not have to negotiate with the union when a change in coverage, so long as, and there are cases; first case on this was a union contract had said you will provide blue Cross, Blue Shield et, etc, etc. And that’s what it said in the contract. And the employer went to an interim carrier; there is a case in on it. The court held that as long as the coverage is deemed to be equal to or better in every area, it’s not the subject of collective bargaining. If we want to look for employee contributions, if we wanted to change the coverage, we wanted to say the co-pay is not $10.00 it’s $25.00, those kinds of changes have to be negotiated. But so long as the coverage is deemed to be the same or better, then there is no obligation for collective bargaining.

MR. KIRKUFF: I didn’t say anything for collective bargaining. There is in the contract, an agreement that the employer notify the union prior to anything taking effect which didn’t occur, that’s all I said.

MR. GUHL: Okay, well, I would argue the case, that since the court cases are that we don’t have an obligation to do that, that the fact that it’s in the union contract… And we’ve had this discussion in other areas Mitch. Whether something is subject to collective bargaining; meaning if we put in the contract that we can’t ever conduct a disciplinary hearing, that’s written in the contract. It doesn’t mean we can’t conduct a disciplinary hearing because the law says we can conduct disciplinary hearings. So the fact that you put provisions in the contract that are not subject to collective bargaining doesn’t make them an obligation of the administration or the union for that matter. And there were a number of examples of issues that are not subject to collective bargaining that are specifically laid out in the union contract. I don’t think the township has an obligation to comply simply because it’s in the contract, it is not allowed to be in the contract as a matter of law.

MR. KIRKUFF: I didn’t say anything about an obligation, okay, but with a little dignity, respect, cooperation, things of that nature, go a long, long way and apparently, that’s not the attitude anymore.

MR. GUHL: Well, in this case, as I said, my approach is that… I don’t want the Council to be hearing from the union what the administration has proposed. So I will first take it to the Council in every case. Where it’s a matter for Council consideration, the Council’s going to hear from the Administration first and not from the Union; and I would venture to say that if I were to sit down with all the Unions before discussing the contract, the Council would not hear from me first without, whatever it was I was proposing.

MR. KIRKUFF: I guess common courtesy just doesn’t prevail anymore. I’m not going to argue with you about this whole thing, like I said right from the beginning. But common courtesy, a little… You should still come and talk to us before hand. That’s what the agreements are. And we have an agreement in the contract, that that type of thing take affect and that apparently doesn’t take affect anymore. Now, the unions are not getting an opportunity to look over Cigna or the proposal. All everybody is going by is what you’re saying right now. There’s no evidence to that fact, nobody’s got the chance to look at anything, make any improvement or any suggestions, correct? Now, what makes you think that the Union is going to run to Council and say oh the administration is proposing this and…

MR. GUHL: You’re kidding.

MR. KIRKUFF: No, I’m not kidding. I think you have a misconception, of what actually goes on around here and what the unions are like. That we’ve been trying to deal with this administration up front, and apparently, that attitude isn’t getting anywhere. In any case, common courtesy goes a long way.

MR. GUHL: I think its common courtesy to have the Council view it first what the administration is proposing.

MR. KIRKUFF: You’re not just hearing about it, you’re voting on it and passing it without any input.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. President, here’s my concern and why I raise this. And having had no prior discussion with Mr. Kirkuff, is that this looks very attractive as far as the taxpayers saving a million dollars. If it looks very attractive for the administration to have a plan that they deem that’s better administered.

MS. SALVATORE: As long as he stays in front of the mike.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Thank you Alison. It looks very attractive from the point of view of the administration and have a plan that’s better administered. But whether there’s an obligation or not… I understand and accept what Mr. Guhl is saying, he wants to come to the council, first. Rather than voting on it what I’m saying is let’s give them the sense of Council, this looks pretty good. Go ahead and have the meetings with the unions. If there is a big concern we would know that before we vote it in. And the administration would have an opportunity to settle. But whether there’s an obligation or not, we’re all in this together. And I just think I would rather fair on over communicating than under communicating. So this sense is from administration, wanted to talk to us first, let’s give them the sense of how we feel. I think it sounds pretty good. Let them go ahead with their meetings with the unions and if there are some major concerns, let’s settle them, and then if we do pass them we pass them; that’s all I’m saying.

PRESIDENT PONE: This is probably the wrong place, but I think Mr. Goodwin kind of pointed out before. I think everything’s been laid out are there Major concerns?

MR. KIRKUFF: I’ve only heard about this in the last several days, and I’ve already gotten quite a few comments from different people about concerns between the two plans.

PRESIDENT PONE: Indiscernible.

MR. KIRKUFF: Well, I can’t tell you that now because I haven’t anything to look at. The only thing I can tell you is this, and this is what I was told and I can’t confirm it one way or the other because I don’t have the time. I’ve actually been having some medical treatment of my own. In the meantime, I’m hearing things like the state dropped the plans; Verizon dropped their plan, that there were problems with claims. And the only thing that I’m hearing right now is what Mr. Guhl is saying, and what the gentleman from Cigna is saying. I haven’t had an opportunity to check the record. I haven’t had an opportunity to look at anything; neither have the International and the contracts with the International. We weren’t brought in or told about anything. It’s just kind of like getting shoved down our throats. It may be a better deal, we don’t know. We haven’t had the opportunity to check anything out. And common courtesy…

PRESIDENT PONE: Thanks Mitch. Mr. Schroeder.

PAUL SCHROEDER, President of ASFCME Local 2475: My main concern with this is just the lack of communication. Unfortunately, Mr. Guhl feels that it’s not necessary to talk to the employees who are going to be affected by this change. I, myself, personally, would have loved to be able to sit down with a representative from Cigna and say tell me a little bit about yourself, so I can go back and tell my people what your plan is or what change or how things are going to work. I’d love to be able to talk to some of my employees who have special… kids with special needs or special medical attention, and be able to say to them hey look, they’re looking to change this plan, you know check with your doctors, let me know… Now, I understand if you vote on this tonight, you’re going to have a second reading in two weeks?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: No, no reading.

MR. SCHROEDER: Okay, so I’m hammering away, but in other words, this plan is not suppose to take affect July 1st, correct?

PRESIDENT PONE: Correct.

MR. SCHROEDER: Which is less than thirty days. Now in those thirty days, the representative from Cigna and his employees and so on, are going to have to meet with all the township employees. Explain to the township employees what’s going on, the township employees have to check with their doctors, check with their specialists, and so on. Then bring that information back and then try to get this all resolved in twenty-eight, twenty-nine days, whatever, how many days are left; twenty-seven, I believe, twenty-seven days. It’s a very short notice. I’m all for saving the township money. I live here, I pay taxes here, and I’m all for saving money but I also have a concern about the employees and their healthcare for their children and family and so on. And I’ve had this problem before where there is lack of communication. In that fact, I spoke to the personnel director the other day and I asked him point blank. I said, look the rumor mill is churning, I hear we’re changing our health benefits. He said, no, absolutely not. It’s something we’re looking at but it’s not going to happen. Not two days later, I read the resolution, and here it is in the resolution is being brought up to be discussed. I’ve got no information. Now tomorrow morning, if this hits the newspaper, I’m going to get two hundred phone calls from two

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

hundred members. They’re going to want to know if their families are going to have health benefits and if they got to change doctors, and they have to do this and do that. All we would like is a little bit of communication, so I can take this back to my members and say, hey look, this can be a great deal. Save the taxpayers money, you’re getting what you want, but I don’t have information to give them. In this short amount of time, we’re going to try to put this all together, and that’s where my problem lies. This may be a great plan; this may be a win-win situation for everybody. The taxpayers are going to save money, township’s going to save money, and employees are going to keep their benefits they have. But as of tomorrow, when my phone starts to ring, I have no answers. And now, I’ve got to try to put it all together. We’re in the middle of our busy season, where all people are out cutting grass, cleaning parks, maintaining trees, we’ve got problems in the sewer lines, and now we’re going to have to pull people off those jobs in a two-three week period, rather than spread this out over a month or two and allow people the time to do this. Like right now, all my members, they have families. They have baseball games, soccer season is still going on, and some of them have to get in touch with their doctors make phone calls. A little more time would have been appreciated, and I think what would have made this a much easier transition, it would have made this smoother. So that is my only problem.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. Schroeder, I want to point out that Mr. Guhl did not say he wasn’t going to communicate. He specifically said he was it was just what I’m raising the question of whether we should pass the resolution before he communicates. He never said he wasn’t, he always said that he is going to communicate with the unions.

MR. SCHROEDER: Yeah, you’re correct, it’s a matter of when, and like I said, the problem is, as of tomorrow morning, it will be in the paper, I’ll have two hundred phone calls, and I’ll have no answers. In Bill Guhl’s case earlier in the agenda session, he had mentioned that he spoke to one employee who had certain medical conditions or whatever, and they researched it and so on. Well, now you do have all the township employees who might have medical conditions. Like I said, this could be a time thing. And from this reading to the next reading, actually to July 1st, is not a great amount of time, and that’s my concern.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Paul, one second, Mr. Clark, how is your web site… Can you come to the microphone with the web site? How is your web site as far as the employees being able to go on and check doctors, hospitals… Do you have a call center where employees can call? Can you explain about your web site, the employees can go on and look at doctors, hospitals, that’s ‘A’. And then ‘B’, do you have a claim review or call center if someone’s going to have an operation or if their child has autism or something like that, they could talk to a claims person or a… Some companies have what they call a health advocate, where they talk to somebody, an ‘800’ number?

MR. CLARK: First question, the web site’s available now, anybody… It doesn’t have to… It could be anybody, just go onto Cigna.com, there’s a link for a provider directory. And you can look up providers at any point. The personalized web site, mycigna.com, which includes viewing of, being able to print ID cards and things like that, it cannot happen until July 1st. It has to be after the effective date but prior to July 1st; anybody can go on the web site and verify documents.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Before July 1st.

MR. CLARK: Any time, they can do it tonight, they can do it tomorrow. It’s available to the public, the web site. Second question was about a health advocate, I believe.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Like a health advocate, people can call up and they can walk through a claim, they could walk through a referral process, what doctors specialize in certain areas…

MR. CLARK: We have a few different resources available for folks all through the main 1-800 number at Cigna, where they can, not only ask about providers, specific providers to see. There’s a few resources online as well; the ones available on the 1-800 number are both on an emergency base line twenty-four hour health information line where you can get a registered nurse twenty-four hours a day and ask those types of questions. In some urgent situations, in a non-urgent situation, few key things to point out, just to reiterate, based on the comments that were just made, is to remember that the benefits are guaranteed to be equal or better.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: This is an all reimbursements from doctors and hospitals?

MR. CLARK: Yes.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: So no matter how it’s billed?

MR. CLARK: To be equal to or better than the way that it’s done today, correct. And if there’s a situation that exists today, then we would be mirroring that situation.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: And the ER is the same?

MR. CLARK: Yes. So there’s that piece of it, and there’s the network piece of it which again, folks can look up online at any point. We talked about the transitional care benefits, the health coach or health advocate that is available will be available on July 1st or after for anybody to call in as many times as they want there’s no limitation.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Where Mr. Schroeder is coming from, prior to July 1st. That would be big.

MR. CLARK: If there’s anybody prior to July 1st, my office is prepared to answer the questions that they have.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Where you have people here.

MR. CLARK: We’ll not only be here for face to face meetings, but we’re also going to be able to answer any very personal situations that can’t obviously be asked in a group setting. We take those off line and answer one on one; we do research and make sure that there are seamlessly no issues. And just, if I could, answer two other points that were raised. One is on timing. I realize certainly that today is June 4th, we are prepared, we are ready to go, most of this transition happens electronically these days. So most of it is very simple and easy to do, which obviously, the bigger piece of it as is already mentioned just through employee education, which will therefore be to people understanding that the benefits are the same, the networks are more than adequate, and therefore, there wouldn’t be much disruption if any. And one other point, just to clarify, that someone made about the state plan just so that we’re all clear, the New Jersey State Employee benefit plan went out to bid for April 1st of this year. Prior to April 1st, the state benefit plan included, Horizon Blue Cross for the traditional plan, and the NJ Plus, point of service plan, and five local HMO Plans, one of which Cigna was. They’ve reorganized that plan as of April 1st, they’ve removed three of the HMO players, Healthnet, Oxford, and AmeriHealth were all removed. Aetna and Cigna were awarded the HMO contracts. So a very big increase in our membership, the increase, a validation from the state that we are here to support the government segment and then Horizon obviously kept their piece of it, the traditional and NJ Plus.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: How about the prescriptions? You have brand, generic, or have you looked at what Benecard was paying for brand, what they were paying for generic?

MR. CLARK: There will be no difference in the way the pharmacy is administered.

COUNCILMAN GOODIWIN: Pharmacy is the same; the CVS’s the Eckerd’s, the WalMart’s?

PRESIDENT PONE: Any questions Paul, before we get to…

MR. SCHROEDER: I would just like to comment that this is the kind of information that I would need and as Mr. Guhl has pointed out, he believes that we automatically run to Council if there’s a problem. Having this kind of information as we probably would have spoken to you before this meeting tonight, we might have come to you and said it’s a great idea, let’s do this. But unfortunately, this information, I’m getting now. So the man has the information together; if I can get that information to my employees, this like I said, could be a win-win situation for everybody with no crying, no wining, no complaining, but until I get that information…

PRESIDENT PONE: I think the clarity, was if we do pass it, they can go on Cigna.com immediately and check providers, like today.

MR. SCHROEDER: Well the problem is… The problem we have is as somebody spoke out, the gentleman himself had said, roughly ninety percent of the same people are in the same plan. And that’s what we need to find out. We need to find out how many people are in plan, who has what problem, we need to address those problems. Problems take time to address. Now we may be able to address them in a day or two, it may take a week or two. But a little bit more notice would have made this a little bit easier and would have made it a much smoother transition. And that’s my only real complaint here. Now the problem is while there may be a web site that I can go to or my employees can go to. I now have two hundred people that I’m going to need to reach out to in my union, alone; not counting all the other township employees of second and third shift and so on, that now I have to get in touch with. So having a little bit more time as I’m sure, some of these individuals have your personal cell phone numbers, your business numbers, or whatever. They would have been able to call you and say hey this is a great plan. It’s a win-win situation for everybody, that’s all I’m looking for; just looking for things to go smoothly and quickly as possible and a win-win situation for everybody.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Paul.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: One more thing, Mr. Clark, if we see like probably like a primary care network, probably going to be identical and that is the specialty care. If you see that x-number of people are using podiatrists for example, could Cigna go out and try to solicit that doctor to be part of the network.

MR. CLARK: We absolutely would, you’re correct in your assessment that because there’s more specialists, in general than there are primary care physicians… If there is any disruption it’s greater on the specialty side than the primary care and we absolutely encourage… That was one of the things that we incorporated into our communication letter that’s basically ready to go. That would allow us to try to recruit those providers. Unfortunately, we can’t make any promises because providers don’t have to join our network. But that’s their choice. But knowing that certain employees or certain of their patients will be switching carriers actually helps sometimes in the negotiations. And one other point that I wanted to make was on the communication sessions, not only will they be done very quickly, and throughout the month of June, but we’ve also extended it to the administration to be past July 1st, so again, there are going to be people, that will raise their hand first and answer questions. But as time goes on, there will also be people after July 1st that have questions because something happened that they didn’t anticipate or didn’t even know on their current plan. It’s just how change often brings up questions the company never answered anyway, it’s not necessarily…

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: There’s also going to be people that want to talk to you privately and not want to say this in a public setting.

MR. CLARK: Part of our communications could be having somebody here for a fifteen minute session, basically blocking out time, people just coming in one after the next. And again, we’re prepared to support the town as needed.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Clark. Mr. Bagley.

MATT BAGLEY, President of Hamilton PBA 66: First, I have a couple questions for you, what does this entail? I don’t think I completely understand this. Is this prescription, major medical, vision, dental, what does it entail, Mr. Guhl?

MR. GUHL: It’s not vision and dental. We’re staying in the same coverages in vision and dental. It’s medical coverage and prescription coverage.

OFFICER BAGLEY: Wow, okay. Let me just give you some background. I believe Council President you had a question or Mr. Goodwin you did about what are the glaring problems. I can tell you that in the last three years, I filed about three grievances against the town in this type of situation because the town acted and signed a contract with a certain company. Mr. Guhl, I’m sure can agree on this. As the time goes by and you start using the health care, whether it’s dental, whether it’s vision, major medical, prescription etc, there’s always one or two problems that pop up. I’ve seen it in every change since I’ve been president. There’s always an issue that pops up. And usually what happens is I’ll file a request for a plan document, the one-inch thick signed contract plan document that in this case Cigna would sign with the township. We’ll submit that along with a previous plan document, in this case, Blue Cross Blue Shield. We have an independent consulting firm we use out in Lambertville. We submit both plan documents there, we ask them to review them, and then tell us if there’s a change in the level of health benefit at all. In this particular instance, I would encourage you not to pass this resolution tonight. To give the courtesy as mentioned and Paul said, just give us the courtesy, give us a time line put it incumbent upon us. Let me go back to my members, give me at most a month. Give me time to go to my members with a memorandum and say this is what’s being proposed. Please contact your primary care physician. In one case, Mr. Guhl knows, I have a guy a police officer who has a two year old son who has muscular dystrophy who’s dying. He’s seeing a lot of specialists; I don’t want to interrupt his care, of his son. I have other guys whose spouses have cancer. I don’t want to interrupt the care of their spouses because I’m just going to go on with something that we had no idea was going to happen. I’m glad I came.

PRESIDENT PONE: Well, Mr. Bagley, let me interrupt you for one second. I think that point was made, that point was made clear, so that wouldn’t happen. Is that correct Mr. Clark? I just want to address that issue before we go on because I thought that was clear.

MR. CLARK: That is correct. We talked about both transitioning care if there is a person who’s seeing a provider currently in the Blue Cross network, and not in Cigna’s, which again, should be a fairly rare instance. There’s a protocol in place for that, again, we’ll be beginning the communications immediately. And for those that where the care is in network, where that’s not an issue. Where again, there really… If all the providers are in the network, there’s essentially no issue, other than calling your provider and saying, hey, on July 1st you submit your claim to a different place. I mean, I understand, I can certainly empathize as being a father of three. I understand that there’s anxiety or stress about a change but if the benefits are equal to and the providers are in the network it’s essentially a seamless transition.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

PRESIDENT PONE: And if they’re not, in these extraordinary cases…

MR. CLARK: It will be handled with extreme care and in extraordinary cases, it’s really… One of the things we specialize in is making sure those members are handled with care because we certainly understand that it’s not about disrupting their care, and disrupting the other things that are happening to their family members.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: Mr. Clark, what instance would you deny?

MR. CLARK: Very rare instance, the only time I’ve even heard of somebody being denied transitional care is when it’s not truly an acute situation. You could imagine when people go through a change like this, people take the opportunity to see a form that says transitional care, fill this out. If your provider is currently in network and currently not with Horizon or not with Cigna and they’ll fill out something. I have my annual checkup with my cardiologist in November. And that’s not something, presuming there’s no other treatment and care around that gives that person plenty of time to either find a new provider or make the choice to go out of network. One comment I’d also make back is there’s also potentially going to be providers that are currently not in Horizon’s plan that are in Cigna’s. So we’re focused on the people that could be disrupted negatively. There also could be people disrupted positively.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: So let’s say someone’s going through cancer protocol, they have to go to Sloan Kettering…

MR. CLARK: Sloan Kettering is part of Cigna’s network, as is Fox Chase.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Did Horizon provide a claim run out, claims history?

MR. CLARK: Yes.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: So you have the muscular dystrophy on the claims history.

MR. CLARK: Yes.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: So you know what you’re getting.

MR. CLARK: Absolutely.

PRESIDENT PONE: Let’s let Mr. Bagley… I’m sorry Mr. Bagley; I didn’t mean to interrupt you. I just wanted to clarify one point. Thanks, Mr. Clark.

OFFICER BAGLEY: I just want to ask you respectively… There’s obviously a plan document, right Mr. Guhl that’s been reviewed by you.

MR. GUHL: I think if Mr. Clark could come up again, because so everybody is clear, this is not a case where Cigna has Special K and Horizon Cornflakes and they’re be considered the same. Cigna has an obligation to build its model based on the current services provided by Horizon. It’s not an off the shelf model. They know what Horizon’s contract calls for, and they are obligated… And Mr. Clark explained to me, there are a couple of places where it’s just easier for them to provide a little bit better service than it is to change their model. So in every case, it will be at least as good. And in a couple of cases, And Mr. Clark can address this better; I’m just kind of regurgitating what he explained to us. So maybe I’ll just defer to him on that issue.

MR. CLARK: Mr. Bagley are you done?

OFFICER BAGLEY: No, I’m not done. Let me end with this, I don’t see what the urgency is to do this right here, right now, tonight. All I ask is again, there’s a plan document that exists right now for our current health care and current prescription plan, because I have copies of it. There also has to be a proposed plan document for Cigna to the town. All I ask you is, put the focus on the employees, put the focus on the collective bargaining’s. Give us a copy each, I’ll send it tomorrow, I’ll overnight it to my firm in Lambertville. I’ll tell them you have a week to review this, tell me what the short comings, if any are. Do it the right way first, don’t pass it and then we’ll deal with grievances and unfair labor practices, wind up in court and then we got to change the wording. Don’t do that, it’s a waste of everybody’s money. Do it up front. Let’s look at the two plan documents side by side. Let the individual collective bargaining units have a consulting firm show them what the shortfalls are, if any. Then you tell Cigna you modify the document so it exists in its right form. And then there’s no loopholes, there’s no problems with any collective bargaining would have to file for the document reports. To me, it’s the right way to do it. It’s just my opinion.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Bagley.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

OFFICER BAGLEY: Thank you.

MR. CLARK: One comment about the plan document. The plan document does legally have to be submitted within six months prior to any affective date of the contract. So the plan document will be created but it’s not created yet. We can’t prospectively create something first. For someone who’s not a customer, we have reviewed the Blue Cross plan document in great detail. We know our systems capabilities; we have great experience in this market place. And we have guaranteed again that the benefits will be built equal to or better. We’ve already identified as Bill mentioned a few instances where our systems programming based on how Horizon has it listed on the plan document. It’s easier for us and not a financial burden to the town to slightly change it where it’s better for the member. There will be no instance in which it’s worse than. I will say as the gentleman just spoke about, in every change, no matter what, in every change, you could review those plan documents all you want, side by side. The plan documents sometimes aren’t correct from Horizon or from whomever, not to pick on Horizon. But the plan documents sometimes are unclear or are vague. And somehow, Horizon might be paying something in a certain way and the only way it would be brought to our attention is through an employee. And that’s even if you’re with Horizon and something gets paid wrong. The only way it’s brought to your attention sometimes is from the employees themselves. As far as the firm, the gentleman mentions, I’m fairly certain this is a small university in the health insurance world. I’m fairly certain I know the firm he’s talking about in Lambertville. They’re a major firm that we also work with. We have mutual clients with, and based on our reputation with them and based on their relationship their experience with us. I would guarantee just a phone call to that firm that said were considering Cigna, what would you say about them? They’d say hands down, the only person that would replace a Horizon Contract, because of their flexibility, their experience, and their guarantee that again, has stood the test of time as being one that we can accommodate.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. Clark, if I’m assuming correctly, then, the price that’s listed on this resolution, you will be locked into, so as you’re writing the plan, if you found that you had a need as the unions are reviewing so on and so forth, the administration reviews it, that you have to eat if that were to increase the cost. You have to eat that because you locked into the price we already named.

MR. CLARK: Two comments I would make, is first our price assumes a match of direct match of the current plans. So for instance, if there’s something found out… I mean, the way insurance rates are set, primarily are driven by the group’s claims today. So the claims today are indicative of the plan design today. So the plan design drives the claims and therefore, what we’re proposing is a match. So no matter what the plan is, changes we need to make to adhere to our equal to or better and the price wouldn’t change. One comment about the prices, the price is for July 1st and as things get extended down the line, the price will change without question.

COUNCILMAN MEAA: When you say July 1st to…

MR. CLARK: July 1, 2008, starting July 1, 2008 through June 30, 2009.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: The gentleman in the back. He had his hand up for a while, thank you Mr. Clark.

KEVIN KROLL, Vice-President Benecard Services: And I just want to talk about a couple different things that occurred, so far regarding this transition and the resolution. This is the first time that we had an opportunity to talk to Bill or have any presentation or representation with the township. I’m a little confused that something’s aren’t being communicated fairly to you folks. The $9.1 million that’s in your resolution, for the health benefit program is solely for your medical benefits, that does not include RX.

MR. GUHL: That’s right.

PRESIDENT PONE: We’re aware of that.

MR. KROLL: Okay, and if you look, I think there was a comment… The reason I point this out is that Benecard on its RX program is cheaper than Cigna for the renewal. Now the only reason that this $9.1 million is being proposed is that Cigna is asking for both the medical and the RX. Now to me, if you look at this clearly, I don’t see where the $1.1 million in savings comes from because they need to have administration of the prescription program. To say that clinical programs on the RX side are going to generate that type of savings, I can tell you having been at Benecard for over nine years, that that’s not reality. And the fact of the matter is we are PBM, that’s all we do, we don’t do medical management. And we have those same types of programs in place. One of the options that I proposed to your broker of record and to Mr. Clark, was a sharing of the RX data to Cigna so that they could integrate their clinical programs. That option was turned down. So I really don’t know what to say here, other than the fact that I understand the union’s concerns, I think they bring up very relevant concerns. That is a standard

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

practice in this industry. Why didn’t it go through them? There is going to be changes no matter what kind of transition you do. Even if it was Cigna’s plan and Benecard is taking over, you’re going to have issues with the transition. There are different types of coverages out there. There’s no way for Mr. Clark to sit here and say that you’re not going to have one kind of transition; you will. And that’s just the nature of this business. But I think you really need to understand and from the gentleman from the union that came up here most recently, give them some time to do a thorough review on this. And I think it would be incumbent upon yourselves as a Council for the township to thoroughly look at, the financials that are being proposed to you. This doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t know how anybody can look at this and say how this could generate one million dollars in savings because you need to have the RX program.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. President, if I may?

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you sir.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. Kroll, right now, we have Benecard, you’re our representative, so to speak?

MR. KROLL: That’s correct.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Okay. I don’t understand a lot of how procedures work, but my question being, if someone was presenting another plan and wanted to get the business, would we look at our provider that we have and say here’s a plan that wants to take over your business, can you beat it? But you’re saying this is the first time you’ve had a chance to talk to somebody?

MR. KROLL: This is the first time that I’ve had a chance to talk to either the Council or to Mr. Guhl.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Did you submit a bid?

MR. KROLL: Yes.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: You’ve talked to Mr. Bauman haven’t you?

MR. KROLL: Yes.

PRESIDENT PONE: However, you talked to our broker.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: You talked to our broker, sure.

MR. KROLL: Yes, I did.

PRESIDENT PONE: We’re aware of that and we’re aware that… And maybe Mr. Kramer can clear up some of these things for us. But my understanding is this. My understanding is that there was another company that came in for prescriptions that was considerably less than your company, is that true Mr. Guhl that was less.

MR. GUHL: It is, Medco.

PRESIDENT PONE: And that there was, and the problem with Cigna and actually I questioned this because I didn’t like it initially is Cigna requires us to use their prescription benefit program if we take their medical program because they view this sort of proactive health situation. And Mr. Clark and Mr. Kramer you can please clarify this for the people because I’m sure, just real quick.

MR. KROLL: With all due respect, if I’m in Cigna’s position or if even Horizon or any major medical care that offers RX services, I’d be saying the same thing to you.

PRESIDENT PONE: I spoke to our broker I didn’t speak to any individual companies. Our broker is the person who represents the township in these matters. Listen, your services have been terrific, I’m not knocking your company, and it’s been great. I’m just saying the broker… we have all communicated with the broker, and the broker is the person who does this for the township. And if I’m understanding everything correctly there is a pretty large net savings with the combination. And your current contract was reviewed by the broker. There wasn’t the other company that came in and brought in a bid for the RX services. Cigna came in with their package and when all was reviewed by the broker that was the broker’s decision along with the administration that that was the route to take. I’m not saying… I’ve listen to everybody tonight, I’m not saying its right or wrong, I’m just saying what happened. We did talk… we all talked to the broker, just so you’re aware of that.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. KROLL: And I can appreciate that, and if I was in your position, I would do the same thing. Let me make a couple points, I think the one thing you need to look at any time you’re going to take or switch a carrier because of a financial savings being so great. You have to ask yourself is it realistic, and what does it mean for me in the second year? What kind of assurances do you have that in next year’s renewal, this wan an attempt to come in with a lowball bid and get the business. Now I can tell you one other thing too, Mr. Clark was speaking on this being a small world and knowing who this independent broker is in Lambertville. I know who they are too, and e have a very good relationship with them, and they would vouch on behalf of the union that not every carrier that comes in like a Cigna or Horizon demands that you have the medical and RX together that they will quote it on a stand alone basis. I think the real question here is if there is willingness for us to share the RX data with Cigna, why not take the best of both worlds. You have a medical quote on the table that’s reading at $9.1 million and the RX is… The only reason that number is where it is because they’re saying with the RX data they can integrate these clinical programs. We’re willing to give that data to them for free, and we’re going to give you a lower quote on the RX side. I’m not talking about the quote that Mr. Guhl’s talking about for Medco because that’s a self funded quote. You have an insurer quote with Benecard. So comparing apples to apples there, there is only one other carrier even less than us and that was Bolinger and it wasn’t by a significant amount. So why not take that time to go back to your broker and give Benecard the opportunity to come in and present its case on working with Cigna and sharing RX data. This way, you’re not making a transition to both carriers and disrupting the union or creating grievances that you really don’t need to be dealing with.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Well, Mr. Kroll, we took the risk last year and switched to Benecard and now I guess we’ve seen an increase with Benecard in this year’s proposal.

MR. KROLL: Correct.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: But I know that our broker and the administration were working on this for several months because the police five-six weeks ago that I guess that they met with our broker. He presented different things and he hadn’t made a decision at that point.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: The Blue Cross rate went up 14.77 percent?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: That much, okay.

MR. GUHL: Benecard’s proposal went up 15.52 percent.

MR. KROLL: That’s irrelevant from the medical.

MR. GUHL: I understand that but I’m pointing out that you said that the only one that was competitive with you based on the methodology was Bolinger and it wasn’t significantly different. But it was $165,000.00 difference.

PRESIDENT PONE: The other question you had is exactly what Mr. Kenny just brought up. You said we don’t know what happens in the second year. So we can go back and change it again in the second year if we don’t like it. This contract is for a year. So it’s one of those things that we have a broker, we actually changed brokers because we weren’t getting that service. And now we’re getting the service.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Our previous broker refused to talk to Benecard.

PRESIDENT PONE: Right.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Right, that was the Council that forced that issue.

PRESIDENT PONE: That’s right.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Yeah.

MR. KROLL: And I am aware of that.

PRESIDENT PONE: Our interest again, it came up with another issue earlier today. Our interest is in the fiduciary responsibility we have to the taxpayers. I like all you guys, I talked to a couple guys from your company. You’re great guys. The Horizon guys, great guys. Our old broker, I thought he was a nice guy but we have a job to do. And I think what’s happening here is the job’s getting done, nobody likes change, nobody likes layoffs, and nobody likes change in health insurance, including this Council. We don’t like it either. The people that are getting benefits I’m sure don’t like it. The Mayor, for instance, who really this all comes from ultimately; he’s got to change his benefits. I’m sure he doesn’t want to. But he along with us and Mr. Guhl and the administration have made this commitment to this fiduciary responsibility. Now, if there are unanswered issues we’re listening, we always do. But I want

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

to hear Mr. Guhl’s response perhaps to some of the things that have been brought up and then, we’re listening, I understand.

MR.KROL: And let me just make one more comment before I leave, then. I’m not here to change your mind today, I received a termination letter and look, I’ve been in this business long enough to know when something, a decision has been made already it’s nearly impossible to get that turned around. But sitting in this Council meeting the first one I’ve ever sat in, in my entire life, not just for this township, anywhere. I hear a lot of things that are said up here on this Council and it’s great and I really hope that that is what your intension is. But when I have a tough time understanding is your sitting here and you’re telling these folks and you’re telling me that you have a fiduciary responsibility here; I don’t understand how that’s being met in this situation. It really doesn’t matter, if the business leaves Benecard, that’s fine. If you find a better deal, I get that. I understand that. I totally get that we are going to lose business in a given year. We get new business every year, we take business from Cigna, and they take business from us. Horizon’s involved, you name it. Everybody’s involved, but if you’re looking out for the fiduciary responsibility of this township, then you really need to look at these numbers and understand them and understand what you’re getting into. Not just for this year but for next year.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: Mr. President… Can you back up a second Mr. Kroll, you received what letter?

MR. KROLL: What’s that?

COUNCILMAN MEARA: You received what letter? You said you received a letter?

MR. KROLL: I don’t know what you’re referring to.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: You said…

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Terminating Benecard.

MR. KROLL: Oh yes. Yes.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: We’ve didn’t vote on this yet, I don’t understand. I don’t believe it.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: We probably had to give thirty days notice or more on the contract.

MR. GUHL: That’s right.

MR. GAMBINO: I always thought that you people had to say something.

PRESIDENT PONE: When you come up to the microphone, you’ll have a say Mr. Gambino. But you’re pressing me tonight.

MR. GAMBINO: Speaking from seat.

PRESIDENT PONE: You’re talking from the back of the room; I didn’t acknowledge you to the microphone, please, please.

MR. KROLL: Thank you, I appreciate your time.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you.

MICHAEL BRETH, Vice-President AFCSME 2475: A couple comments and questions. First comment I have accessed the web site for Cigna, and… For example, my doctors were not listed as being in network. We had to personally call the doctors and for whatever reason the site was incorrect and they were in network. So that might b a problem for all of our people if the site is not updated properly. My next comment is what would the estimation of the cost for the prescription part from Cigna be? If the gentleman from Benecard said…

MR. GUHL: That’s why I said the overall savings is a million dollars.

MR. BRETH: How do you calculate that?

MR. GUHL: I looked at the other proposals for prescription. The net savings on medical is over a million-one. The differential on prescription, when you add that prescription program and the Horizon medical program, we’ve compared to the Cigna cost… The savings is about a million dollars.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. BRETH: Why is it only the $9.13 million listed in the resolution if…

MR. GUHL: That only gives it the medical side. The prescription side, the contract didn’t end until June the 30th.

MR. BRETH: What will the total be for the prescription for Cigna? Have they given an estimate?

MR. GUHL: It’s not actually an estimate.

MR. BRETH: Okay.

MR. GUHL: It’s just slightly over four million dollars.

MR. BRETH: So the four plus the $9.13, what was the offer from Horizon added to the Benecard amount?

MR. GUHL: So you understand, Benecard was never in the hunt they were not the lowest prescription For the same services prescriptions irrespective of whether we were with Cigna or not, the recommendation from the administration was not to stay with Benecard for economic reasons alone. Actually, the renewal with Horizon including the medical was going to be $14.570 million, including prescription, although not through Horizon. And the number for Cigna was $13,408 million.

MR. BRETH: Okay.

MR. GUHL: So when I even when I added this termination obligation with Horizon of a $1.85 million it was still less. And we disposed of the $1.85 million liability. Unless anybody forgets the terms associated with $3 million dollars worth of layoffs. This is one-third of that that could be saved in health coverage. So we shouldn’t think that we’re just going to pass this onto the taxpayer. If we were to say we’re going to stay with the current program and pay a million more. There’s another way to deal with that and it isn’t just the taxpayer will pay more; it will be co-pays, it will be views of other services that we provide. I mean, these numbers are not discrete numbers. They’re not independent of any other expense.

MR. BRETH: Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mike, Mr. Gambino.

ANTONIO C. GAMBINO: I say that I agree with Councilman Meara, I agree with Mr. Bagley, I agree with Mr. Cook that you should table this. I smell something funny in here. I saw something in these Council chambers that I did not like. Mr. Goodwin attacked Mr. Meara; he said he didn’t know where he was coming from and that gives me an inkling of suspicion.

CUNCILMAN GOODWIN: You can have all the suspicion you want, but I don’t pontificate, all right?

MR. GAMBINO: Well, let me ask this Council this. Did you investigate Cigna?

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: How many Council members sat down with Cigna?

MR. GAMBINO: How long have they been in business?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: I sat down with the broker.

\PRESIDENT PONE: We have a broker.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: And I know that the broker…

MR. GAMBINO: Oh the broker, that’s right.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: And the broker reached out to three or four towns that had switched to Cigna and they are all pleased with it.

MR. GUHL: I think it was five towns.

MR. GAMBINO: Who is the broker, what was the broker’s name?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Ward Bauman.

MR. GAMBINO: Who, Ward Bauman? Who is he from?

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. GUHL: The firm is called Public Synergy.

MR. GAMBINO: Public Synergies?

PRESIDENT PONE: His job is to continually research things.

MR. GAMBINO: So in other words, this was bid on, correct? This was bid or what was it?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: We get proposals.

MR. GUHL: Competitive price proposals on the same product

COUNCILMAN KENNY: One of the complaints we had last year was the township had not shopped its medical insurance for a number of years.

MR. GAMBINO: I can’t hear you.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Okay, one of the problems we had last year was the township had not tried to shop medical benefits for a number of years. We required over the objection of Mr. Mason that we go to Benecard… There was a bidding war between Horizon and Benecard for the prescriptions; we saved the tax payers about $600,000.00 last year on the prescription program. And it was too late to shop the medical portion. As I recall, Mr. Mason said well if you want me to get prices, I will. And we were a little upset then because that’s part of his job. Well, Mr. Guhl’s gone out and done that and that’s what Mr. Bauman’s done, and we’ve gotten four five quotes on prescription coverage? And I guess two or three on the medical because there aren’t…

MR. GUHL: Actually, more than that.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: More than that okay.

MR. GUHL: We cut down to Horizon and Cigna, when we eliminated the competition it wasn’t for the price competitive.

PRESIDENT PONE: And on top of that…

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: You were probably here at the meetings when we fought him on that, and we had a meeting, I think it was at the fire house.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Yes.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: When we had the meeting, when they were going right along with Horizon.

MR. GAMBINO: See, what I don’t understand, what is the urgency here that you have to…

COUNCILMAN KENNY: July 1st. The current contract expires June 30th.

PRESIDENT PONE: Tony, even though you’re skeptical Mr. Goodwin and I…

MR. GAMBINO: No, I’m skeptical because I think that I don’t think that you should play games with people who work in this township with their healthcare because I’ve seen it before where people can’t get coverage and…

PRESIDENT PONE: This is far from playing games.

MR. GAMBINO: Well, no, no…

PRESIDENT PONE: This is better and we’ve heard it a hundred times tonight.

MR. GABMINO: Well, what’s another week or two? What’s another week or two? You can still pass the resolution, you have the next meeting.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Another two weeks means that all the transition has to occur in about ten days…

MR. GAMBINO: Let me ask you this question because what bothers me too is that why weren’t you preparing for this like a couple months ago when you knew that this was coming. And now you want to shove it on the people here.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

PRESIDENT PONE: Tony, they have been.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Tony, this went on for months.

PRESIDENT PONE: You think this happened over night?

MR. GUHL: And so you understand, and…

MR. GAMBINO: No, I understand.

MR. GUHL: …Mr. Clark said earlier, the rates are billed on the charges… if we use two year old data, we have to give them current information that we could. They wouldn’t have given us a price. For that matter neither would Horizon, given us a price six months ago. They need to know our experience in order to price our service. So, and everybody recognizes, and it’s very close to the renewal date that the data is current enough to get reasonable approximation of what you expect the increase forecast in medical costs etc, to be so you can get a good price. We couldn’t do this two years ago. And it’s the same reason they won’t give you three years of… They won’t say well, we’ll guarantee this for three years.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Or give you a two year contract.

MR. GAMBINO: So basically, then nobody at all up here has investigated Cigna.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Sure we have, absolutely.

MR. GAMBINO: You have?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Yeah.

MR. GAMBINO: And what did you find?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Kelly and I sat down with Ward Bauman a good six weeks ago. I remember Tommy, I talked to Tom, Tom was a little bit skeptical of Cigna, and so he investigated it, and made contacts that he had to see what their level of service was.

MR. GAMBINO: Isn’t Mr. Goodwin in the health care industry?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Yes.

MR. GAMBINO: I knew there was some connection there; I wasn’t sure what it was. But you know what, what bothers me is why Mr. Meara is so skeptical about wanting to…

PRESIDENT PONE: Ask Mr. Meara.

MR. GAMBINO: Well, I’m going to, ask the question. Tell me Kevin.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: As I said earlier Antonio, all I’m saying is this face value sounds like a great deal for the taxpayers to save. It sound like a better administration for the Administration I was just asking that we get the third leg of this which is the employees to find out if there’s any concerns that we haven’t heard prior to us voting on it.

MR. GAMBINO: So basically, you think that this is a good deal then, is that right?

COUNCILMAN MEARA: From what I’ve heard presented, to us, it sounds like it could be a good deal. Now the question is let the employee unions who represent the employees…

MR. GAMBINO: And I agree with you, I think they should have involvement. I agree with you and I don’t think it should be shoved down their throat.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Dave said… I don’t know if the microphone is working or not. Like Dave said, I was skeptical about this. And I talked to Mr. Guhl about it and I talked to other people about it and I talked to Mr. Clark about it. My concern was to South Jersey, the web site, the plan service, and from talking to those individuals and some of the people that my wife deals with that they have improved their network. And they have all the hospitals in the network.

MR. GAMBINO: Okay.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Gambino, Mr. Tessein.

CHRIS TESSEIN, 241 Churchill Avenue: Actually President, I got a question for you. How long has Council actually known that there was a possibility of this change?

PRESIDENT PONE: I can only speak for myself. I spoke with Ward Bauman probably three weeks ago, I’ll say.

MR. TESSEIN: Yourself, three weeks ago, so I heard Councilman Kenny and Councilman Goodwin possibly five to six weeks ago.

PRESIDENT PONE: Councilman Kenny and Councilwoman Yaede I think met with Ward.

MR. TESSEIN: And Mr. Goodwin?

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: I talked to… I had met with Mr. Guhl.

MR. TESSEIN: I’m sorry.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: I met with Mr. Guhl.

MR. TESSEIN: And that was about how long ago?

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Probably a month ago.

MR. TESSEIN: So here’s my question Mr. Guhl. You were on the record and said that you wanted Council to know about this first before the unions. My question to you is, or my statement to you is through the President, that’s leaving. I had another one for him, they already knew. They knew that you were getting ready to make a transition or possibly making a transition correct?

MR. GUHL: They knew that we were considering.

MR. TESSEIN: Okay. So…

MR. GUHL: I can tell you that at least some of the council members met with Mr. Bauman before the administration was even comfortable recommending the change.

MR. TESSEIN: That’s fine. So Council met… so you were on the record tonight and said you wanted Council to know before the unions, correct? And then you notify the unions after this was done. But however, you could have paid them courtesy a month ago, six weeks ago, eight weeks ago, after they started already meeting with Cigna or the broker, excuse me, and said hey listen, we possibly got a change for you. Maybe now, you can start thinking about checking this is a road we might go down. Start talking to your members. See it’s kind of disturbing that every meeting that I come to, I always see that one the employees are the last ones to find out; and it seems like every time I come here, you have employees in front of you that are disgruntled because of bad communication. That was the old administration and if anyone up here denies it, they didn’t take care of the employees. Mr. Pone, Mr. Kenny, and Mr. Goodwin you guys ran on open government, so did Councilman Meara and Councilwoman Yaede. I worked for both of yous; but however, what I’m seeing here is there are a lot of things being kept in closets and the doors are being open when we’re at the last minute. And it’s starting to affect the morale of the employees in Hamilton Township. And I have a concern here. I spent many trips going to New York with my brother who’s a cancer patient. He has now three weeks to try to start searching and seeing if this is going to work for him. I’ve recently been with him to Sloan Kettering in New York just a month because the cancer came back. I’m sure you’re aware of that.

MR. GUHL: I am.

MR. TESSEIN: So wouldn’t it have been nice if eight weeks ago when I had him in New York or six weeks ago when I had him in New York, he knew there was going to be a possible change, that way when he was up at Sloan Kettering he might have been able to say something. So now all these gentlemen here or employees’ women they have to worry about this. I have a concern, and the concern, that we’re not looking out for them employees of the township. Now do I think that this whole million dollar savings is a benefit to me, I’m a taxpayer here; I’m not going to disagree with it. What I’m in disagreement with is that I think there’s a lot of closed door sessions going on here, and it concerns so many of the employees of the township. I don’t understand how we’re getting a one million dollar savings when the economy is not running, and everything’s being raised in our society. I don’t see how one company can be a million dollars less, okay. One company can be a million dollars less and we don’t have an actual formatted contract. I mean, I’m in construction when we get ready to do a project, we have everything listed, and we know what our budget is, and we know what we need to do a project. They haven’t built the project yet they just threw a number out there.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

COUNCILMAN KENNY: They do have a model. They have to…

MR. TESSEIN: He just sat here; he has a model of the old health benefit.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: It has to exceed what is currently being provided.

MR. TESSEIN: But he actually said that they haven’t come down to anything they have to do. They still have to build it.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: And then, if they made a mistake in their number, they eat it. So he has to meet or exceed, so it’s there.

MR. TESSEIN: So back to… Let’s go back to this Mr. Kenny, you knew almost eight weeks ago, seven weeks ago …?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: It was under consideration.

MR. TESSEIN: That it was under consideration.

MR. GUHL; Just to make clear, I mean, I have the proposal in front of me, and it’s dated April 24th. So I know it wasn’t eight weeks ago. That was the date that I got the proposal.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Well no, I think I had a meeting with Ward Bauman maybe before that. Just that he was shopping it and he was showing us the differences.

MR. GUHL: So we’re…

MR. TESSEIN: All right, let’s say six weeks ago. I’m fine with six weeks ago. So you’re deciding it and the unions are finding out tonight. Mr. Kenny, don’t you feel you have an obligation to the employees in this township to let them know there’s possibly a change. Something you knew six weeks ago. I mean, it’s just common courtesy.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: There’s a change in name only.

MR. TESSEIN: A change in name only?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Exactly.

MR. TESSEIN: You just had someone up here, and they said the web site…

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Same level of benefits.

MR. TESSEIN: Similar benefits, but not possibly the same doctors within the program.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: What’s been said is that over ninety, in the high ninety percent of doctors in New Jersey are in Horizon and also in Cigna. So there’s going to be very few instances with doctors…

MR. TESSEIN: You’re still not answering my one question. Don’t you feel you have that need to let your employees know that you’re representing; you’ve been elected to this township. Or do you think you can just open the door any time you want and drop whatever you want on people’s laps. I sat up here listening with the old administration and you fought about stuff like this.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: I think what would have been helpful to maybe alert the unions earlier. I would agree with Mr. Guhl, it’s not an item that’s negotiable at this point because it is the same level of coverage. If you’re going to reduce the coverage then that clearly has to be negotiated with the collective bargaining units. But I would agree it would have been helpful. But now I’m faced….

MR. TESSEIN: It’s not helpful it would have been right.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: And my first and foremost obligation is to the taxpayers, and I’m looking at it…

MR. TESSEIN: Your township employees are your taxpayers.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Well, I agree. But most township taxpayers are not employees to the township. So I have to protect those taxpayers first and foremost.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. TESSEIN: I would agree with you I’m not saying you don’t. But how would the people that work for this township everyday, they have to bite the bullet every time this administration gets ready to make a change and they’re not notified about it. I’m sorry, if I had to notify you on something, and I was fixing your car, and I went ahead and fixed your car and spent money on your car, if I was a mechanic… Would I be wrong, for not notifying you and I spent $2,000.00 on your car?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Do you work for a private employer Chris?

MR. TESSEIN: Yes I do.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: If they change insurance coverage do they tell you ahead of time?

MR. TESSEIN: Yes they do.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: That’s unusual.

MR. TESSEIN: They do because they hold meetings with all their employees and let them know, we’re getting ready to change our coverage.

MR. GAMBINO: They have to.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: They just tell you it’s done.

MR. GAMBINO: It’s the law.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: They can change the coverage, but…

MR. TESSEIN: They can change it. Don’t you feel you have an obligation to these people? You know what, this is going down the wrong road Dennis, and I’m starting to feel that, that were…

PRESIDENT PONE: (Gavel), But I did hear tonight, and I agree, Mr. Kenny said, maybe it would have been helpful, but I did hear tonight, and I like to clarify these things when I hear them, kind of the wrong way. Mr. Guhl said tonight and Mr. Clark said tonight, that they’re going to meet with every single person in this township, if need be.

MR. TESSEIN: I understand that, but we’re doing that in the late hour, the late hour, Dennis.

PRESIDENT PONE: I heard that and I get that and I understand that. But I am just pointing out that it’s not completely accurate that they’re not going…

MR. TESSEIN: We were here sixty days ago, and we were talking about layoffs, right? This gentleman hadn’t met with one union member or union official to let them know what the standards were going to be and who was going. I see its double standard here Dennis. You know what I mean? It’s what they want to do and let them find out last minute, and I’m a taxpayer. You understand? Its called communication, communication keeps our relationship. And always remember this phrase; every action ends up in a reaction. And the way you guys are heading, you’re heading for a bad reaction because a lot of your employees morale is in the dump.

PRESIDENT PONE: There’s one difference, in the direction, thank you Chris. And that is philosophically this Mayor and this Administrator are doing things for the right reasons. Is the methodology always right, nobody’s is. But there’s a difference, and I got to make that clear because I wouldn’t… You know me Chris, you know me a long time. I’ll question everything, and in Mr. Guhl’s office I question a lot of things. But when philosophically, we are doing… You remember because everybody seems to have short memories as to where we were in the last six to eight years. Philosophically, we need a serious major - major change in this township. The taxpayers can’t stay here Chris. The Tessein’s love living in Hamilton Township you guys are like a fixture in Hamilton Township.

MR. TESSEIN: We are a fixture

PRESIDENT PONE: So are the Pones, so are the Goodwin’s, so are the Meara’s, so is everybody, even the Guhl’s as much as some people don’t believe it are Hamiltonians. My son, my twenty-year-old son, there’s no way on God’s earth he’s going to be able to afford to stay in Hamilton Township and I’m not going to sit up here as an elected official and not have the guts to make those changes. This guy has guts, our new mayor has guts, this Council has guts, not everybody is going to be happy. But Chris, I can’t sit here anymore and think that; you got to understand philosophically we have to change the way business is done in Hamilton Township. It’s been wrong, wrong, wrong for eight years.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. TESSEIN: I’m not fighting you on that. I asked for a change along with you.

PRESIDENT PONE: But you are.

MR. TESSEIN: No, all I’m asking is for common courtesy. Like our families, if you want to go with families, have always had everything we’ve done around here along with old times and sports, and everything else. Families communicated. This administration might turn as a business point, but you still got to communicate with people, Dennis. And what you just said, twice, they’ve done it. And the methodology might not be right, you would think we learned from the first time; we didn’t. Is it going to happen again, and again, and again?

PRESIDENT PONE: You’re points taken Chris.

MR. TESSEIN: But I think the point’s taken because we’re sitting here on the record. But I think when we all walk out this door tonight, the doors are going to close again, and the same thing is going to happen. I don’t disagree that we need to save money Dennis, and if we got to layoff, we got to save money, but it’s a matter of common courtesy and there’s none of that right now.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Chris, I appreciate it.

LUCILLE DONAHUE, Lake Avenue: Do these employees contribute any percent of their money to this? Because we’re all talking about saving money and saving more money and other people who aren’t municipal employees and work other places are experiencing layoffs, freeze on wage hikes. I only have one daughter; I had to send her to Catholic School. I work two jobs and she graduated and everybody needs to be real and see how we can really save maybe even more money than that. Maybe other ways of kicking in also and I really want to make that point because other people have to do that today and it should be a consideration as well as discussing with people what you’re taking on as far as their health care. You should let them know what they’re going to get in a reasonable amount of time. And as far as eight years, I’ve been in the township twenty years and I haven’t really been happy for twenty years, but my daughter loves her house. Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you very much. Mark.

MARK CONOVER, 233 Trenton Avenue: I just want to say one thing on this thing, I came from… I’ve worked in a lot of different corporate settings; I’ve never once been consulted by upper management as to which direction they’re going to take our benefits. In fact, when I first started in one company I won’t mention, we got paid every week. All the sudden one day, they came down to us; they said starting today from this week forward, you’re going to get paid every two weeks. There’s no discussion, this is a business, okay, number one. Number two, you can’t fix everything all at once. You guys, and I’ve watched, I’ve been to these meetings, I’ve been watching what you’re doing. You’re making changes; you’re going to make mistakes along the way. Maybe communication is an important thing to consider for the future. And I think these folks need to take a look at that. Okay, let’s bring it up, let’s suggest it, let’s talk about it, let’s talk about it in a business like fashion, let’s not get loud in the back of the room and let’s not make a whole thing out of it. Let’s talk about it like business people make the suggestion, request, whatever you want to call it. But this thing, you know how many people are out there? I’m a small business man. I don’t have any free benefits, it costs us a lot of money, and it’s nice to have that. It’s nice today, in this economy to have a job. So I think we all need to take a breath. We all need to save money, here. I think we’re all after a common goal, I think we’re making something out of, maybe it’s not done already, but I think we’re making a problem out of something that we don’t know will be a problem. Mr. Guhl’s done research; your broker has done research if there’s problems that come up, we address them.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mark. Mr. Kramer.

PAUL KRAMER, 106 Hummingbird Drive: I keep hearing the word benefits; we are not changing benefits, here. The one goal that Bill has had is that the benefits be equal. We’re changing the gut that sends the checks to the doctor, that’s all. It’s as simple as that. And to try to think that the administration… Kevin got upset when he heard a letter went out. Well, how would you feel if we went to the unions and said we’re changing the health provider and you didn’t know about it. It will be the same thing. How are you going to deal with four hundred people to make a decision? Everybody has their own little problem. That’s what you guys are hired for. You’re going to save a million bucks, you’re going to get the same coverage, you’re going to have hotlines with the broker; you’re going to have hotlines with Cigna. You’re going to have all kinds of transition people to help you get through the problems. We all have problems, but I don’t remember the administration; and I’ve been through four transitions. When we left the state health benefits, the unions said oh, we’re going to get killed, we’re going to get killed; we’re not going to get the same benefits. You know what happened, well, now, they don’t have to get the benefits that were given to them by the state, they can negotiate with us. And guess

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

what happened, they have better benefits because we control what we gave out in benefits, maybe we gave too many benefits, I don’t know. But the point is this is at this administration and certainly the Mayor, understands you can’t change the coverage. There’s a contract, you’re only getting a new provider. It doesn’t matter if it’s Aetna, Horizon, Cigna. Cigna is not some small company that just came off the turnip truck; they’re a major company. They’re doing this work in other towns. They’re taking business to other towns. The School Board changed from Horizon to Aetna a few years ago, that wasn’t a big problem. The problems get ironed out. But there’s no way we ever get this done. The benefit… When you put out the proposal you need to know what the utilization was and that doesn’t happen until March. So there was a transition period for the broker to try to get all the figures together. You’re here tonight, to award it and by the way, you can fire him three months later or a month later. You’re not obligated in terms of health benefits to save him every year. Am I right, Bill? You can drop them anytime you want, if they’re not doing their job. But I know the broker went back to Horizon and said could you give us a little better deal? And I am shocked I have never seen somebody that put a proposal in like Benecard did and then later comes in and said I didn’t get the fare shape. You put a number down, that number wasn’t the right number, it didn’t work. So for them to come in here and say that, when in fact, this group here or three-four of you, they wouldn’t have had the business last year. And by the way, I don’t remember the administration when they changed from Horizon to Benecard that they negotiated with the Union. They certainly didn’t negotiate with the union when they went from Horizon to Benecard. Yeah, he let you know. Well, we’re letting you know tonight. That’s when you know. When the Council approves it, you know that you’re going to have a new provider. And that the provider, the broker and the administration will work to make sure the transition is as smooth as it can be. You’re not losing benefits; you just got a different person paying the bills for you. That’s it.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Kramer, I appreciate that. Augie.

AUGUST SCOTTO, Mark Twain Drive: I don’t understand all the aggravation going on here. I mean, if they think they’re sitting in a room with those characters we use to have here, where you can’t trust any word out of their mouth. I trust Mr. Guhl, he is so accurate on all his dealings, and he doesn’t play games. He does what’s best for the township and I mean it’s nothing to fight over. To get excited over this here is … I can’t understand it, I don’t understand people getting that excited. He’s doing his job; he’s doing a good job. You guys know, you could see from saving a million dollars. That should make everybody happy including the people who work here so they can keep their job. I mean, if you save a million dollars on that one deal, you’ll save a million on something else, which means more people can work here. So they never think of the future. They think about my pocket tonight is empty, but they don’t think about tomorrow. They don’t… they play these stupid games and it goes crazy. Do what you say you want to do and it’s fine.

PRESIDENT PONE: Good point.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: One point, Mr. Kramer, you were right. Last year, Dave, Dennis, and Kelly if you remember, the Benecard thing was that was that night because the administration wanted us to keep Horizon at the higher cost and the decision was made that night at the firehouse about the change because the administration was fighting all the way to pay the higher number. Then the employees were notified after that.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thanks Tom.

BILL GROOM, 8 Sparrow Drive: I’ve been working for the same company for twenty-seven years and not once do they ever notify us or ask for our opinion about health insurance. There is a period when seven years straight, I changed my health insurance coverage from one company to another. It wasn’t by choice it was because we have to contribute to our health insurance. At one point, there was an HMO where it cost me $400.00 a month to have coverage for my wife and my three children. And that is money that I had to pay. So every year, I was looking for the best coverage I can afford; not only can I provide coverage to my family, that I can afford. I can’t believe what I’m hearing, what we’re discussing tonight. We have an opportunity to save over a million dollars and the coverage is greater than or equal to. I mean, to me, it’s a no-brainer. Now if the unions have to understand, the administration has to administrate and get the cost of running government under control. Business is doing it; government has got to do it, too. So the unions have to understand that and stop the wining which it really amounts to, to those of us that still have to pay for our own health insurance, a large contribution. We have a chance to save over a million dollars. For God sakes, let’s do it. And let’s work together, the taxpayers, the administration, the Council and the people that work for this town.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Groom. Mr. Capodanno.

VINCENT CAPODANNO, 4134 South Broad Street: What we have here tonight, I think is an old fashion battle of people that believe in unionism and people that seem not to believe in unionism. That’s my opinion right from the get-go. The second thing is I’m not going to debate the figures. There’s

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

something here that concerns me tonight. We have a former finance director that is here tonight, and I want to know that have any of you dealt with him about this matter, because you seem to like talk to him a lot about this?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Paul has reached out to me about this, yes.

MR. CAPODANNO: Okay, now Paul has reached out to you about this, but can I ask if he has any affiliation with this company. Because he’s been sitting back there, and there’s been a couple times that I seen this company comes here and he sits in back of this company and they talk a lot. And then, when I ask the fellow from the company that if he knew him, and you say you don’t know him, but you still talk. All right so, I’m talking to him about something to me that could be unethical. I want to know if there’s any affiliation at all with Mr. Kramer and this company?

MR. KRAMER: No.

MR. CAPODANNO: None at all?

MR. KRAMER: No!

MR. CAPDOANNO: Okay.

MR. KRAMER: N O.

MR. CAPODANNO: Now you know if there’s any affiliation?

PRESIDENT PONE: I don’t.

MR. CAPODANNO: But there’s any affiliation with any members up here or their family or anything with this company, or the broker or anything like that?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Absolutely not.

MR. CAPODANNI: Nothing like that?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: I don’t know anybody who works for Cigna, other than Mr. Clark who I don’t know. It’s the first time I’ve seen him.

MR. CAPODANNO: Oh okay, because I’ve seen some conversations going on. I haven’t seen… I’ve been here quite a while now a couple of Council meetings. And I’ve seen the former finance….

PRESIDENT PONE: I do value Mr. Kramer’s opinion.

MR. CAPDONANO: Okay because I was a little concerned about it, because I see them talking. Then I ask him if he knows them, he says no. So something’s a little fishy to me. Where I thought…

MR. GOODWIN: I met Mr. Clark for the first time tonight.

MR. CAPODANNO: Okay. But I think what concerns most people tonight is the fact that you have an Administration that seems to have an attitude when it comes to dealing with the unions. So you know you come from a town that basically for years has been a blue collar town and that there’s always been common courtesy, there’s always been certain rules, regulations, things in the contracts and whatever that both Council’s have dealt with when it comes to unions. It seems like certain things have been bypassed. It seems like Mr. Guhl has an attitude okay, that he’s the Administrator, he’s working for the township, and then like he’s doing things the way he wants to do things; and that the unions they have a say in certain things. I seem to think that he has a tremendous attitude when it comes to collective bargaining and it’s like him taking cod liver oil. Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you, Mr. Capodanno, Janice.

JANICE GLONEK, 432 Trinity Avenue: I can see where they’re coming from. However, I worked for Hamilton Township Teachers Education Association, you’re never told anything. You’re given the vote on anything. We have been told over and over again guess what, you’re coverage is changing and we have no input whatsoever. We are never notified about it, it just comes in a letter; guess what, you’re changing because we decided to for saving money. And we get upset just like they get upset, but unfortunately, that’s the way it goes. It’s supposed to be equal. Sometimes, it doesn’t seem like it is, and you got to fight it. But being notified ahead of time, the teachers are never notified ahead of time at all and we’ve changed over and over and over again. That’s just the way it goes.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Janice.

MS. GLONEK: Tom you’re doing okay.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you. And Mr. Tessein must be in an unusual situation. We’ve now heard that several times. I run a business for twenty-eight years; we’ve changed health insurance almost every single year on some level. We don’t tell our employees, we just tell them that’s what we’re doing because we have no choice. Just like we’re elected up here to make these decisions, which are difficult and we talk, we don’t operate in a vacuum, we listen, we think things through, and we’re elected to do it. You’ve always had that power, if you don’t like it down the road, that’s fine. But in business, and that’s… I think that has come out tonight, crystal clear. In business the people that run the business are the ones that make those decisions. And that’s… If it’s a bad decision, then it gets talked out and we live with it or we change it, but I at this point. Paul, come on up. Last one on this please. I think we’ve heard every side of it.

PAUL TESSEIN: I think you missed my brother’s point, Dennis. His point was just a thing of communication.

PRESIDENT PONE: I got his point.

MR. TESSEIN: Well you said that you think his company was the only company that communicated or tells them that they’re changing their benefits. I think the point is that what he said was his company sits them down and tells them look, we’re going to change your benefits.

PRESIDENT PONE: But we all do that.

MR. TESSEIN: I’ve worked on all your elections.

PRESIDENT PONE: That was going to happen to, by the way.

MR. TESSEIN: I have a big stake in this myself, as you all know. And I don’t have a problem with things changing, but the problem is that there is a big lack of communication. And there’s no reason why that you guys could have sat down with Mitch and said look; this is what we’re thinking about doing. I mean, it wouldn’t have been that hard, honestly? Because look what happened tonight. I mean the people that are out here working and we’re finding everything out last. You know what I’m saying? I mean, hey, I love all you guys. Day and night, I work for you, but I got to be honest, I mean, there is some things that just there’s just a little communication problem going on here.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Paul, we see that. I can see that.

MR. TESSEIN: It’s simple. Let’s get the road, the employees… There’s a big separation right now, and it’s not good. It’s not good and I think; I mean, I was Vice President under Paul Schroeder and he and I have had some big differences along the way. But I got to be honest, things ain’t right and I just think that there could be better relationships with the unions and the employees, and that’s all I’m saying. Saving money that’s fine. And I do pay. I heard some people in here saying they pay for their benefits, well, I do too. I have Blue Cross and I pay. But that’s the provider that I chose because that’s what I need to go and do what I got to do. You know what I mean? Some of the people chose the other plan, but I chose the one and I do pay. So there are people in this Township that do pay for their benefits, okay?

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Paul. We can hear you loud and clear.

MR. GUHL: The Township eliminated the traditional plan and options for the employees, I think sometime in the nineties, but negotiated that if you wanted to maintain a plan of that level of richness, there would be an employee contribution. One other point I think we should make, so everybody understands the order of magnitude. We’re talking about the cost per employee and retiree for medical and dental of $13,500.00 a piece, and in this proposal, and $14,500.00 a piece if we stay with Horizon. We are not talking about eight hundred bucks here. I mean, we are talking about real money, significant, significant money. A thousand dollars per employee or retiree for the year, and it’s going to be footed by the taxpayer. That’s where this decision came from.

PRESIDENT PONE: I think a good point was made earlier. It struck me that these decisions, some of these hard decisions, might save jobs in the long run. But if we can save enough money and stabilize taxes, that means maybe no further reduction in workforce. And that’s a consideration as well. And this is one of these decisions that are not fun and not easy, but I think we’re ready to call it, so Madam Clerk, please call the roll.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

COUNCILMAN MEARA: You know Mr. President, I heard over and over about we’re going to run this town like a business. And I heard people come up and say my business didn’t do this, my business didn’t do that. In the world there is not just running a business model. There’s Enrons, and then there’s Nordstrom’s and Walt Disney and we got to determine what type business we’re going to be. The best businesses just don’t do everything they have to do. The best businesses are the ones that go that step extra, whether its customer service, whatever it is. I think we need to keep in light that we don’t have to do just what we have to do that we can take the extra step and be a better business. In light of all the discussion tonight, my main concern was about communication. I’m going on presentation through Paul Kramer, and the broker, and the Administration that we’re providing a good plan. We can’t go back to the fact that there wasn’t communications ahead of time to the Union. And I’m going to support this and vote yes, and hope that any concerns that are raised once everybody gets the information, they can be addressed. I’ll vote yes.

COUNCILMAN GOODIWN: Based on all the information I’ve heard tonight, looking at the increases and looking at the coverage that may be equal or better, I’ll vote yes. I will say there was a lack of communication.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: Mr. President, after hearing all the dialogue that was conducted here tonight, and as you know, in my profession, the number one concern I had was that there was no disruption in service, that the transition would be smooth. And we heard the representative from Cigna, that that will happen. There will be a significant cost savings and that’s why I will be supporting this. However, in going back to what Mr. Kenny had said earlier; what the township is currently doing, first time in history in Hamilton Township we’re realizing layoffs. The employees are currently managing with that. The number one, second concern outside of having a job is what kind of health benefits will I receive and what changes will happen? And when people don’t know that adds to their anxiety and it affects morale and it affects the workforce. And we do have a fiduciary responsibility, but also, we have a responsibility to take care of the people that do provide for services. So I think that moving forward, it will be very important that somehow particularly when we’re realizing a cost savings of this magnitude, it would have been very helpful to reach out to the unions and message that to them. And let them carry it to their employees to assure them that their benefits will not change as we stated, it’s equal if not better. Perhaps, some of the anxiety, the fear could have been avoided that what was discussed tonight, I will be supporting it based on the cost savings. And as long as you’re telling me that these employees will receive better, and I do trust Mr. Kramer, that they will receive same if not better, and that you will be there to help guide them and you will be on site, will be most helpful. So in seeing that, I will be supporting that.

PRESIDENT PONE: I will also support this. I think you heard me tonight, I did learn… No one likes change, including me, we go through those changes, like I said in my own business, and usually raise deductibles or whatever so we’re not paying out as much money every year. All businesses have gone through some hurt over the last couple years. Hamilton Township has gone through a lot of hurt in the last couple years, both economically and with bad management. I wouldn’t be doing my job as an elected official if I didn’t vote positively for this resolution. I would not be doing my job properly. I heard the communication argument tonight. It’s valid; I can’t argue with it, there’s no arguing it. I also know Mr. Guhl is very, very aware of laws and protocols. And I trust him and I trust our broker because that’s why we have a broker. Somebody said do a lot of research on this company… well, Mr. Goodwin can do that because he has some knowledge of it. Frankly, and somebody else said this tonight about us talking to professionals. I think Mr. Capodanno brought up that point, he’s right. We don’t know everything up here, that’s impossible. So I have to rely on these people. A lot of faith in Mr. Kramer as a confidant. I have a lot of faith in our new broker, he’s working his tail off to try to save the township money, a lot of confidence in Mr. Guhl who everyday is in here working to save, to straighten out the mess that this Township is in. Again, I have to vote yes, but I’ve heard all the comments, and they’re duly noted. Resolution passes five zero.

PASSED: Ayes – 5. Nays – 0. Abstentions – 0 Ayes: Council members – Kenny, Meara, Goodwin, Yaede and Pone

08-231 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING TRANSFERS IN THE FISCAL YEAR 2008 MUNICIPAL BUDGET ($690,050.00)

Mr. Meara moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Kenny; unanimously approved by Council after the following discussion:

PRESIDENT PONE: it’s been moved and seconded, comments? Mr. Kirkuff.

MITCH KIRKUFF, 6 Middleton Drive: I know there’s some discussion before that there was prior payments made to former employees involved this resolution. That’s public information, is it not?

MR. GUHL: It is.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. KIRKUF: All right, thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mitch. Any other comments on this resolution, if not, roll call please.

08-232 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING TRANSFERS IN THE FISCAL YEAR 2008 SEWER UTILITY BUDGET ($78,000.00)

Ms. Yaede moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Goodwin; unanimously approved by Council.

PRESIDENT PONE: It’s been moved and seconded, comments from the public? Roll call please.

CONSENT AGENDA

08-233 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE REFUND OF FEE PAID BY MAK CONSTRUCTION FOR A CONSTRUCTION PERMIT ($50.00)

08-234 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE REFUND OF FEE PAID BY RICHARD ECK FOR A PLUMBING PERMIT ($43.00)

08-235 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE REFUND OF FEE PAID BY DAVID MORGAN FOR A CONSTRUCTION PERMIT ($72.00)

08-236 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE REFUND OF TAXES REPRESENTING 2007 AND 2008 REAL ESTATE AND SEWER OVERPAYMENTS AND REFUNDS ($6,680.00)

08-237 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE REFUND OF FEES PAID BY AFEW FOR ANIMAL ADOPTIONS ($40.00)

08-238 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE REDUCTION OF PERFORMANCE BOND FOR ON-SITE IMPROVEMENTS MADE TO THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS 5 COMMERCE WAY, BLOCK 2591, LOTS 3, 4 AND 5 [GATEWAY 195 CENTRE]

08-239 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE RELEASE OF PERFORMANCE BOND FOR ON-SITE IMPROVEMENTS MADE TO THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS CROSSROAD DRIVE AND COMMERCE WAY, BLOCK 2591, LOTS 3, 4 AND 5 [GATEWAY 195 CENTRE]

08-240 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE RELEASE OF PERFORMANCE BOND FOR ON-SITE IMPROVEMENTS MADE TO THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS 5 COMMERCE WAY, BLOCK 2591, LOTS 3, 4 AND 5 [GATEWAY 195 CENTRE]

08-241 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE RELEASE OF PERFORMANCE BOND FOR ON-SITE IMPROVEMENTS MADE TO THE DEVELOPMENT AS YARDVILLE MANOR [MURRAY AVENUE, BLOCK 2683, LOTS 24 AND 25]

08-242 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE RELEASE OF PERFORMANCE BOND FOR ON-SITE IMPROVEMENTS MADE TO THE PROPERTY KNOWN AS SOUTH GOLD DRIVE, BLOCK 2597, LOTS 7 AND 8 ($625,000.00)

Mr. Goodwin moved to adopt, seconded by Ms. Yaede; unanimously approved by Council.

ORDINANCES - CONTINUATION OF SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5a. 08-028 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration of Government, Article IV, Departments, Division 5, Department of Law and Public Safety, Section 2-272, Police Division

PRESIDENT PONE: I’m going to ask Council to motion to close the public hearing on this. As we are introducing three more ordinances tonight that will ultimately replace this one.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: I think we better open the public hearing.

MR. GUHL: This is a continuation of an already open public hearing.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Oh okay. I’m sorry; it’s our intent to close the public hearing and vote on this tonight.

PRESIDENT PONE: I think we just need that motion.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: All right, I’ll move we close the public hearing.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

COUNCILMAN MEARA: I’ll second, but I just have a question on the procedure. If there is hands raised for the public hearing, do we have to recognize them? I would think so.

PRESIDENT PONE: We’re not addressing this ordinance in any way, shape or form.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: They were not…

PRESIDENT PONE: I apologize; they were removed from the agenda earlier today by me. It’s been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on ordinance 5a. Roll call please.

Mr. Kenny moved to close the public hearing, seconded by Mr. Meara; unanimously approved by Council.

MS. SALVATORE: Do I have a motion to approve?

MRS. GORE: It dies for lack of motion

ORDINANCE - SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5b. 08-031 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration of Government, Article IV, Departments, Division 6, Department of Engineering, Planning and Inspections, Section 2-291

PRESIDENT PONE: This is a public hearing. Mr. Capodanno.

VINCENT CAPODANNO, 4134 South Broad Street: Well, first I didn’t mean to say you did anything unethical. I was just watching something going on. So I just wanted my mind cleared on that, ok. All right, so I didn’t say you did anything unethical.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: It’s an appropriate question.

MR. CAPODANNO: I didn’t mention names; I’m saying, you know. Can you explain this? Is this the ordinance where you’re going to do away with certain individuals?

COUNCILMAN MEARA: No.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: No, it just changes some titles.

MR. GUHL: It really just changes the names of some departments.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: From Engineering to Community Planning and Development.

MR. GUHL: That’s all it does.

MR. CAPODANNO: All right.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Vinnie; anyone else on this public hearing on this ordinance?

Mr. Meara moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Kenny; unanimously approved by Council.

ORDINANCE - SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5c. 08-032 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The “Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey”, Chapter 2, Administration of Government, Article V, Boards, Commissions, Committees And Agencies, Division 7, Economic Development Advisory Commission, Sections 2-522, 2-523 and 2-525

PRESIDENT PONE: This is a public hearing.

Ms. Yaede seeing no further comment I move to close the public hearing and adopt, seconded by Mr. Goodwin; unanimously approved by Council.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

ORDINANCE - SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5d. 08-033 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration of Government, Article V, Boards, Commissions, Committees And Agencies, Division 11, Municipal Alliance Committee on Alcoholism And Drug Abuse, Section 2-628

PRESIDENT PONE: This is a public hearing.

Mr. Goodwin seeing no further comment I move to close the public hearing and adopt, seconded by Ms. Yaede; unanimously approved by Council.

ORDINANCE - SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5e. 08-034 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 74, Jewelry, Precious Metals And Gem Dealers, Section 74-4, Records of Sales

PRESIDENT PONE: This is a public hearing.

Mr. Meara seeing no further comment I move to close the public hearing and adopt, seconded by Mr. Kenny; unanimously approved by Council after the following discussion:

ANTONIO C. GAMBINO: Is this the one where the ordinance is where they’re going to hold the jewels?

PRESIDENT PONE: Hold it for ten days so if there’s any reason for the police to investigate if they’re stolen basically.

MR. GAMBINO: You know what, I really think this is a bad ordinance really because, I mean, if you have a jeweler that’s… I mean, you basically would have to have a police officer inside his place of business. Because I mean, who’s to say that he’s not going to pick out and put it on the side? You know what I mean, if the guy is a crook.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: It can always happen but it gives us…

MR. GAMBINO: I mean who drew this up? I mean, this is really…

PRESIDENT PONE: I think this stems from the… Prices of precious metals especially gold is high.

MR. GAMBINO: But who?

PRESIDENT PONE: Therefore, there’s more crime involved with gold.

MR. GAMBINO: Listen, if you got a jeweler okay, that has a criminal come in and he wants to pawn some stuff, the bottom line is it’s not going to stop the jeweler from putting the stuff on the side. He will probably give them one or two pieces if he knows that it’s hot. I mean, this ordinance, who drew this up? I’d like to know. Who? You did?

PRESIDENT PONE: Bob, you want to comment on this? We have a police officer in the audience, Mr. Gambino.

MR. GAMBINO: Basically, I mean…

PRESIDENT PONE: I’d like to see how the police feel about it.

MR. GAMBINO: I mean, I don’t understand it, I think it’s really ludicrous. Because if you have, like I said, if you have a corrupt jeweler, you’re going to have a police officer inside his place of business all the time to watch what’s coming in and out.

PRESIDENT PONE: But if you have a good jeweler, he has somebody doing that. He’s going to call the police. I understand your point. Well taken. Bob, you want to…

BOB DISZLER, PBA 66: I also do work with the pawn shop unit in our police department. The price of gold right now is in excess of two thousand transactions a month. There are thirteen jewelry stores right now that we work with. Take photos of all the jewelry that’s bought, sold, in the township, not retail sold, but purchased from private people. In the past month we probably sold a dozen cases in our jurisdiction and others, also in Lawrenceville, we sold one tonight in West Windsor. Like I said, at least probably ten in Hamilton Township.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Will this ordinance be helpful to you?

OFFICER DISZLER: Absolutely. As it stands right now, the jewelers don’t have to hold on to the jewelry at all. So what happens is we find out that a case is solved, and we go get the jewelry back, it’s gone. It’s melted, it’s disappeared. If they hold it for ten days, that gives us a good shot to get the jewelry back. We work it out with forfeiture funds and the like. We reimburse the jewelers. They work very well with us. We keep them happy, they keep us happy. We seem to have a pretty good working relationship with the thirteen jewelry stores that are on record with the precious, that do have the precious metals license.

PRESIDENT PONE: Appreciate your input.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Bob are (indiscernible) precious metals like the (indiscernible) or Washington.

OFFICER DISZLER: Anything that’s sold to a jewelry store precious metals license. They do coins, watches, stuff of the like. We do not have anything in regard to say video games, stuff resold like electronics.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Your Rolex.

OFFICER DISZLER: Watches, stuff like that. Could Mr. Gambino be correct saying that the jewelers will take stuff in the back door? Is it possible, sure it is, but as of right now, I think most of the jewelers that we work with work pretty well with us and we’re very happy? Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thanks very much Bob. I appreciate your input on that. Mr. Capodanno.

VINCENT CAPODANNO, 4134 South Broad Street: The last couple weeks, and a couple people I’m real close with had jewelry stolen and the police department has a real good report with the jewelers, something like them will help them even further, because if it wasn’t for them, these people would never got their jewelry back. They got their jewelry back. So this ordinance is well written. It’s a good ordinance, so I give you a lot of credit for it.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mr. Capodanno. I appreciate it. Anyone else, Mr. Gambino last time.

ANTONIO C. GAMBINO: If they feel that it’s going to help them and they have a good working relationship with the jewelers in the township, that’s all fine and dandy. But the bottom line is there’s nothing you can do if you have a corrupt jeweler.

PRESIDENT PONE: Every law has ways around it.

MR. GAMBINO: I don’t want to take nothing away from the police department, with what they’re doing, but my point is, if you got a corrupt jeweler, that’s it. I don’t think every jeweler in this township is honest.

PRESIDENT PONE: Understood, thank you Mr. Gambino. Augie.

AUGUST SCOTTO, Mark Twain Drive: If we follow Gambino, then every law would be thrown out the window because you got to have a cop sitting any place where the law can be broken. This is what it’s all about. They set up a law, they have a right to go in and if they feel they can prove it in court, you go to jail, that’s all. That’s what it’s for, not to protect anybody. I don’t understand that guy.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Augie.

ORDINANCE - SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5f. 08-035 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 86, Miscellaneous Provisions And Offenses, Section 86-26, Concerning The Prohibiting Of Any Parent OR Other Personal From Enrolling A Non- Resident Student In the Hamilton Township School District

PRESIDENT PONE: This is a public hearing.

Mr. Meara seeing and hearing no further comment I move to close the public hearing and adopt, seconded by Mr. Kenny; unanimously approved by Council.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

VINNIE CAPODANNO, 4134 South Broad Street: When I listen to Augie sometimes, you know the Constitution; you know people have the right to talk right. Okay, now, this is all over, so I have to give you a lot of credit for this ordinance, all right. I was at the Board of Education with the budget hearings, I said we needed an ordinance like this on the books and it’s well written. I give you a lot of credit.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you. Mr. Gambino.

ANTONIO C. GAMBINO: I like to just say one thing, I think that this is a great ordinance, and it’s finally, finally, finally has come to light in this township, because I want to tell you a little story here. I use to Eddie Connor okay. Now I don’t know, I haven’t seen him in a while, but he used to be the Truant Officer in the township. Still is, isn’t he? I haven’t seen him in a while. But anyways, I use to live on Chambers Street and I use to watch a lot of these kids come in from Trenton, and they use to go to Hamilton High West. And this was brought up like years and years and years ago. They all use to come in from Trenton and you just see them and they would all walk back into Trenton. And I could just see the township tax dollars going down the drain. So it’s about time that you should really really start making these people pay, especially the ones that are coming in from Pennsylvania, dropping these kids off. Great job!

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you, thank you.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: As a former Vice-President of the Hamilton Township Board of Education, I think as far as Council goes I had a bird’s eye view what it costs a student attending our schools when they don’t have residence and their parents or whoever isn’t paying taxes. I guess my question would be I know the cost to educate one student is approximately $9,000.00. And Hamilton Township keeps getting rewarded, for being lean and efficient and receiving money from the state. If it costs us $9,000.00, let’s say we find our students get in the school district for the entire year. Why is it only $2,000.00?

PRESIDENT PONE: That’s plus restitution.

MR. BRUBAGE: It could lead to nine thousand plus.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: So it would be nine thousand plus, I didn’t see that.

PRESIDENT PONE: Yeah, there’s restitution and it could also put a lien on the property.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: That’s where the real money would be with the restitution.

PRESIDENT PONE: And frankly, this ordinance is going to do, is going to save money by deterring people.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: Yeah.

PRESIDENT PONE: They may think about it, and now that they know there’s this kind of money, behind it, they’re not likely to do it. Because it also will fine someone who’s aiding and abetting so to speak; if an aunt lives in Hamilton and then somebody that doesn’t live in Hamilton uses the aunt’s address, the aunt can also get the fine. We want them all to take notice so they don’t do it that’s what we want.

VICE-PRESIDET YAEDE: To follow up on my question, has the school district kind of either… Are they thinking about as far as restricting or making the requirement for residency? Are we working in conjunction with them? They’re doing that as well?

MR. BURBAGE: Actually, the attorney for Hamilton Township Board of Ed contacted me and that’s how this ordinance came about. And I had spoken to him several times and he outlined their methods and the fact that they have a very proactive aggressive system in place to try and catch these individuals and we discussed various methods to interact between Hamilton Township and the School Board.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: It’s quite hard after the fact.

PRESIDENT PONE: They just put some teeth in it is what it does.

MR. BURBAGE: Well, the deterrent the fact that Councilwoman mentioned hopefully will… That’s what the Board of Ed was really looking for was the deterrent.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: The question I have is that suppose there’s a… A host family has a change in guardianship, should they… That’s not in here if there’s a guardianship change because that

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

could become a problem. We can have somebody say they’re guardians, of an individual today; tomorrow they go back to where they were and then there’s another guardianship.

MR. BURBAGE: That would be up to the judge to make a determination after thee School Board puts their case in, and the matter would be heard by the local municipal court. And it would be up to the municipal prosecutor along with the investigators and the administration from the School Board to either convince or not convince the judge. It’s a case by case basis.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: It says all residents hosting other families and their residence must register. So if you had another sentence in there that said if there’s a guardianship change that you must notify. But I think people can read if they catch the guardianship they can change things. Guardians can change like that. It’s something to think about.

PRESIDENT PONE: Is guardianship that simple?

MR. BURBAGE: I think it’s… I understand Councilman Goodwin saying that’s true, but it would be difficult to put every possible contingency in the ordinance. And I think it’s understood that the letter of the law is that if you register and then there’s a change in the guardianship, you have a responsibility to inform the school.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: If everybody played by the rules we wouldn’t have this problem.

PRESIDENT PONE: I understand. And actually it goes to Mr. Gambino’s point; people always find a way around these things. But the idea is to give some teeth to the School Board, who is actually doing this already. It just doesn’t have a way to throw it in municipal court, now they do, and a deterrent. Mark.

MARK CONOVER, 233 Trenton Avenue: I’m not familiar of how the law is written, but one thing if it’s not in there, not apart of it; I would suggest that there be a link on the web site for anonymous tips because a lot of people know these people that are not, do not belong in our schools. Maybe even put a couple signs around the township as part of a campaign to help make people aware of this problem and what it’s costing us and finally with the link, maybe a number or something where they can call it goes to a recording. Anonymously, nobody has to suffer embarrassment or any repercussions.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mark, that’s a good idea.

KEN SKWARA: I’m a Hamilton Township Housing Inspector: I can shed some light on what’s going on with this. We usually get calls from the School Board, our office does, and usually the guy Tony Celantano will ask us if this person has a C.O (certificate of occupancy). And we then go out and investigate and see if they do. Sometimes we catch the people sometimes its legitimate, sometimes it’s not. When it’s not, I think the School Board; he gives them I think ninety days to get them out of there. I don’t know how you’re going to enforce this coming up and whose doing the job and doing that. We do play a part in doing that when the School Board does call our office.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: And they do call you.

MR SKWARA: They do call us if he has trouble and he calls us to see if; it’s usually a rental. People try to sneak people in there and sometimes we catch them, sometimes we don’t. And when we do, we turn them over they don’t have a CO. Or if they do have a CO, certificate to occupy the child’s name doesn’t match up with the parent. And that comes up with the guardianship, we don’t know if they’re guardians or not. So then it goes back to them on that information and they take it from there. So it is a good thing, we need to get residents in the school, not non-residents.

PRESIDENT PONE: Bottom line.

MR. SKWARA: We do a lot of those inspections over at Society Hill where there are cars. The busses drop off kids at Society Hill and there’s cars waiting to pick up the kids. Now where they live is walking distance, Society Hill is a big complex. Pennsylvania plates, so it goes on a lot.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: I just suggested to the township attorney maybe guardianship should get added in there.

PRESIDENT PONE: The guardianship, I don’t know, I have a question about that. If you enroll in school you have to list that you’re a guardian. If it’s not the parent you have to list it, so if you’re not listed as a guardian, you’re not listed as a guardian. I mean, that’s how I see it.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

COUNCILMAN KENNY: I suggest we adopt it tonight, and let’s see maybe if we can look at that. Because I’m not sure of the legalese of guardianship and there are state regulations as to who has to be admitted to the schools.

MR. BURBAGE: I think that’s an excellent idea to go ahead and if there’s no objection to it, adopt it tonight. And possibly put the Board of Ed. attorney and I think that’s… There are probably several things we can take a look at. Mr. Conover’s idea… Again, you can’t put everything in the ordinance, but that’s something that certainly I am certainly going to pass along to the Board of Ed. They could have a hotline and that’s how they get the majority of their information is residents, it affects their pocketbooks. There’s lots of good ideas, but I think basically the Board of Ed is looking to get this on and I’ll certainly take a look at fine tuning some of the aspects.

MR. SKWARA: They come in with leases too, with the child’s name on the lease, but it doesn’t match up with the parent. And it raises a red flag, and what he does with it after that, at least, somebody’s out there at least checking that. I don’t know who’s in the School Board out there but a lot of calls come in.

PRESIDENT PONE: You can’t close every door, we close as many as we can. It’s the same as Mr. Gambino’s point about the jewelers. We know it helps the police. But there’s people that are going to snake away from it. That’s how laws are.

MR. BURBAGE: Mr. President, if I could, I had resisted five times now, but not answering Mr. Gambino, but it’s true. There are rotten apples in every barrel, and there are bad jewelers out there, I’m sure. I don’t know them, but the thing is a jeweler is going to take what he knows is stolen property then put it off to the side, so that the Hamilton Police who do a fantastic job in this day. I spoke with Sergeant Mastropolo just today about ensuring that thief who brought that stolen property in… He’s not going to stop stealing and he’s going to get caught and he’s going to start trying to help himself. And he’s going to start giving names and stories, and where I got it and who I sold it to. And the next thing you know, that jeweler does get caught without having a police officer in a store twenty-four hours a day. It’s kind of everything goes around comes around in a criminal and the law. And Mr. Gambino made a valid point, but there’s ways to try to close the door.

PRESIDENT PONE: And it doesn’t mean you don’t keep trying. That’s for sure. Okay, motion.

ORDINANCE - SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5g. 08-036 An Ordinance Establishing A Handicapped Parking Space (1432 Genesee Street)

PRESIDENT PONE: This is a public hearing.

Ms. Yaede seeing and hearing no further comment I move to close the public hearing and adopt, seconded by Mr. Goodwin; unanimously approved by Council.

ORDINANCE - SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5h. 08-037 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey Chapter 50, Fees, Section 50-1, Miscellaneous Administrative Fees (Septemberfest–Demonstrators of Services or Products)

PRESIDENT PONE: This is a public hearing.

Mr. Goodwin seeing and hearing no further comment I move to close the public hearing and adopt, seconded by Ms. Yaede; unanimously approved by Council after the following discussion.

MARK CONOVER, 233 Trenton Avenue: My question is that based on this ordinance proposal here that you still planning on spending the money for extravagancies such as Septemberfest and so forth?

PRESIDENT PONE: This ordinance goes to philosophy which is if we can fund Septemberfest with non- tax dollars; we don’t have any reason not to have it.

MR. CONOVER: Agreed. However, it’s in with the Fourth of July celebration coming up. These things are upon us and when is an actual… At what time frame do you have to have to make an actual decision whether we’re going to go or we’re not going to go so that we can take the appropriate step to advertise properly and what have you; so that the investors get their moneys worth out of it?

PRESIDENT PONE: Mr. Guhl, you have… The Mayor I know has been actively…

MR. GUHL: He has. There has been a very significant effort in getting sponsorships for public events. The thing is that we will not use tax dollars in the municipal budget proposal that you receive in July for

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

events like this. I mean, there is a point in which you have to say we have raised sufficient funds, we’re within whatever, airs breath of raising sufficient funds and we’re in go mode now. This ordinance only has application if Septemberfest goes on, and based on fund raising to date, it certainly looks to me like there’s going to be sufficient sponsorship for some of the public events. Septemberfest I think is one of the priorities.

MR. CONOVER: Excellent, I’m glad to hear that, thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mark. Mr. Capodanno.

VINNIE CAPODANNO: When it comes to accepting fees, you can’t use the fees to pay for the employee’s salaries or can you?

MR. GUHL: Well you can, actually. You can use the fees to pay for any municipal expense associated with…

MR. CAPODANNO: So you mean if sponsorship gives you $250,000.00, of course, $250,000.00 to run the Septemberfest, I’m just giving you a figure.

MR. GUHL: Right…

MR. CAPODANNO: Salaries overtime, you can use that money?

MR. GUHL: Yes you can.

MR. CAPODANNO: Oh okay, thanks.

PRESIDENT PONE: I would just add one thing, Mr. Guhl. With the assumption we’re going ahead with Septemberfest this year, because it looks like the effort is paying off. I would like to see… At the end of it, I would like to see the actual analysis, how it worked out for us. So that we can discuss it for next year and any weeks we need to make. Thank you.

ORDINANCE - SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING

5i. 08-038 Ordinance Authorizing The Mayor To Execute A Quit Claim Deed Relinquishing Any And All Ownership Interest The Township Of Hamilton May Have In Block 2474, Lot 49

PRESIDENT PONE: This is a public hearing.

Mr. Kenny seeing and hearing no further comment I move to close the public hearing and adopt, seconded by Mr. Meara; unanimously approved by Council after the following discussion.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Seeing no one, I will reluctantly move to close the public hearing and adopt this ordinance. And I say reluctantly, because this is a situation with the township bid this piece of property to sell it. I think the bid was about $70,000.00, and unfortunately, it turned out that the township had never gotten a deed for it so it was conveyed by Winding Brook Associates for the predecessor for public purpose and Winding Brook said well, we want it back. They’re not using it for public purpose, so essentially, we got nothing for it.

PRESIDENT PONE: It’s been moved and seconded, and I echo Mr. Kenny’s thoughts on this, it was ridiculous. Roll call please.

ORDINANCE - FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

5j. 08-039 Ordinance Accepting Deed Of Conservation Easement And Deed Of Right-Of-Way Dedication (Allstar Route 130 HS, LLC, Crosswicks-Hamilton Square Road And NJ State Highway 130, Block 2712, Lots 138.01 And 138.02

Mr. Meara moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Kenny; unanimously approved by Council.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

ORDINANCE - FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

5k. 08-040 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration Of Government, Article III, Departments, Division 6, Department Of Community Planning And Compliance, Section 66- 63, Inspection Prior To Change In Occupancy, Section 66-64, Inspections Fees, Section 66-68, General Maintenance Requirements And Section 66-74, Electrical Standards

Ms. Yaede moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Goodwin; unanimously approved by Council.

ORDINANCE - FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

5l. 08-041 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration Of Government, Article IV, Departments, Division 5, Department Of Law And Public Safety, Section 2-272, Police Division

Mr. Goodwin moved to adopt, seconded by Ms. Yaede; unanimously approved by Council.

ORDINANCE - FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

5m. 08-042 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration Of Government, Article IV, Departments, Division 5, Department Of Law And Public Safety, Section 2-272, Police Division

Mr. Kenny moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Meara; unanimously approved by Council.

ORDINANCE - FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

5n. 08-043 Ordinance Amending And Supplementing The Code Of Ordinances, Hamilton Township, New Jersey, Chapter 2, Administration Of Government, Article IV, Departments, Division 5, Department Of Law And Public Safety, Section 2-272, Police Division

Mr. Meara moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Kenny; unanimously approved by Council.

ORDINANCE - FIRST READING AND INTRODUCTION

5o. 08-044 Bond Ordinance Amending Bond Ordinance Numbered 05-049 Of The Township Of Hamilton, In The County Of Mercer, New Jersey Finally Adopted December 20, 2005

Ms. Yaede moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Goodwin; unanimously approved by Council.

RECESS AS THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL AND CONVENE AS THE LOCAL ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL BOARD

Mr. Goodwin moved to recess, seconded by Ms. Yaede; unanimously approved by Council.

08-243 RESOLUTION APPROVING RENEWAL OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL LIQUOR LICENSES FOR THE TERM JULY 1, 2008 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2009

08-244 RESOLUTION APPROVING RENEWAL OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL LIQUOR LICENSES W ITH SPECIAL CONDITIONS FOR THE TERM JULY 1, 2008 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2009

Mr. Kenny moved to adopt, seconded by Mr. Meara; unanimously approved by Council.

RECESS AS THE LOCAL ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL BOARD AND RECONVENE AS THE TOWNSHIP COUNCIL

Mr. Kenny moved to recess, seconded by Mr. Meara; unanimously approved by Council.

COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC

PRESIDENT PONE: Do we have a sign in sheet? Mr. Kirkuff.

MITCH KIRKUFF, 6 Middleton Drive: Do to the lateness of the hour, I will for go my five minutes.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mitch, I appreciate that.

MR. KIRKUFF: You’re welcome.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

PRESIDENT PONE: Mr. Ressler is not here, and Mark.

MARK CONOVER, 233 Trenton Avenue: I have a question for you. In light of the recent second failure of the same area, the underlying sewer supply. Are there any plans on doing a further inspection to find out how far the; I mean if we’re going to have further problems because if you got it opened up, we really need to get some robots and …

MR. GUHL: Actually, that’s how we found the second one was in doing an inspection. But yes, we are chasing the problem from manhole to manhole. But your question is A, is there a point of which we get pipe and not concrete. I saw the opening today and I was having lunch when Rich Watson called me and said put down your sandwich and come to Camden Avenue because we have a replication of the other problem, yeah, essentially the same section.

MR. CONOVER: Hundred fifteen feet away.

MR. GUHL: Yeah, closer than that, actually. And it’s complicated a bit by the fact that it turned out that the force main and not gravity main, which creates more difficulty with regard to diversion. But we think… I was looking at the system, the line runs up toward the White Horse Circle and we will be checking section. As a matter of fact, we were trying to get somebody out there this afternoon who had equipment that could check the thickness of a line, in metal lines from above the surface. We were hoping to get someone out there by 3:30 today. I didn’t get a report by days end. If it wasn’t today, it’s going to be tomorrow. So we are certainly… We want to minimize the extent to which this has to be treated as an emergency. But by the same token, you don’t want to ignore the fact that the problem that’s here may exist in other sections of the line in the immediate area. So yes, there’s a plan to try to find out to the extent to which this is symptomatic of connecting pipes from manhole to manhole.

MR. CONOVER: Not being totally familiar with the area, is there commercial traffic allowed in that area?

MR. GUHL: You know, the neighborhood is really very residential. It’s small streets; it’s not the kind of thing that really would support very heavy traffic.

MR. CONOVER: A weight limit if that’s not against…

MR. GUHL: He’s right there, we’re not letting any traffic on that road way. The real question is as we chase it, and try and identify to the extent that the problem may be… And they think that because of the slope of the road in the next section, I think it’s unlikely that a problem of the same magnitude is occurring there. But we’re certainly going to check it all the way back.

MR. CONOVER: In addition to the sampling manhole, have they considered doing any core samples?

MR. GUHL: Yes, actually, they were doing core samples today.

MR. CONOVER: Because that’s a good educator. Second thing and I think it’s just with Dennis’s permission, direct this to Bill.

PRESIDENT PONE: You may Mark.

MR. CONOVER: Where can I get a breakdown of the deals that were made in terms of taxing sessions and more incentives for the Hamilton Marketplace, the new hotel, the Home Depot, the Medical Offices, we have a lot of new construction.

PRESIDENT PONE: American Metro.

MR. CONOVER: American Metro, where can I get a copy of the details of those contracts? When they were put together and what the incentives where?

MR. GUHL: If you’re talking about what the tax incentives will be which is pretty much the limit of what the municipality can do. The Clerk’s office would have on file resolutions authorizing a PILOT which would have been an acronym for Payment In Lieu Of Taxes. And I don’t know, I mean, there was none for Market Fare.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: I don’t think there are any outside American Metro.

MR. GUHL: I don’t either.

MR. CONOVER: Outside of…

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. GUHL: American Metro.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Just the old…

MR. GUHL: I think that’s the only one.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: American Standard Plant.

MR. CONOVER: My only thing, the reason I ask is because if there’s no tax concessions in these mega- structures. They really should be bringing in us substantial amount of tax revenue.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Dave, wasn’t there tax appeals on the Marketplace there before we took office.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Well, there were tax appeals, but that’s not a tax incentive.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: I know, but the taxes went down?

COUNCILMAN KENNY: The taxes did go down, and I understand because they were set in an artificially high number by the Tax Assessor because he wasn’t getting information from the building owners. So that’s one way to get their attention.

MR. GUHL: So what we’re collecting now is the right numbers based on the real value. The fact that we overstated the value to get their attention, and then ultimately compromised it, doesn’t really change what the real numbers should have been. And the assessments value, the assessed value for taxation purposes, on all those properties, is available in the Tax Assessor’s office in this building. As the payments in lieu of taxes are mentioned quite certain if there’s a possible exception of if we have federally subsidized affordable housing or something, there’s only one line item in the budget, in the regular side of the budget, for a payment in lieu of taxes, and squared exactly with the American Metro deal. So there must not be any other payments in lieu of taxes on not federally not subsidized; common in municipalities that have federally subsidized housing.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Project Freedom.

MR. GUHL: Project freedom is it.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: They don’t have to pay taxes.

MR. GUHL: Or even the senior housing, the senior mid-rise on Klockner Road.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: I really don’t know.

MR. GUHL: I think they may have, but that’s a different, that’s a project that wouldn’t happen. This is, the American Metro is a conventional development that for whatever reason that was to be decided issue creative incentives for.

MR. CONOVER: And the only reason I just wanted… just real quick, the only reason why I’m asking that is because I know with these large tax basis and we have them coming in from these medical buildings, these offices, market fare, etc, etc, etc. Most of these places put no additional strain on our school systems, they require very little in the way of police protection. I think protection is normally security that’s hired by the facilities themselves. And I’ve been trying to piece together things and where money’s going, as far as the budget goes. So…

MR. GUHL: I think part; if you look at the School Board budget, this year, I know it was a contentious issue, but some of you understand the school rate went down two cents this year with no increase in the levy which means that ratables have gone up sufficiently, to reduce the school rate price, which is another document. We also need to recognize that something of that order three quarters of all the municipal tax that we collect can either go to the county or go to the School Board or it can go to the fire districts. So I mean there is a relationship between what new ratables mean to the municipal budget. But it’s not nearly in the order of magnitude, if you don’t understand where all these funds go, whether it be…

MR. CONOVER: All right, thank you Council.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Mark. Anyone wish to speak for the first time, Mr. Candya.

PHIL CANDYA, 1745 Roberts avenue: I’d like to speak on something first. I’ve been coming to meetings lately a lot more, but we have rules sitting on that door back there, and I find that those rules are not being kept. It’s hard to hear when you got somebody making jokes in the back. And coming up here

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

on issues and then walking back like it’s a joke. It’s not, this is serious business. This is people’s livelihood; that impound people’s lives. And it needs to stop, it wastes my time, it wastes your time. And it’s not fair, this has gone on enough. I’m talking about Mr. Gambino, and I’ve had enough of it. I had to sit outside tonight because I got tired of telling him to shut up because I can’t hear. This is ridiculous.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Tony, you don’t have the floor now.

MR. CANDYA: He’s a grown man; he needs to act that way. Those rules are put up there for a reason, but they need to be acted upon. I’m sorry I have to bring that to Council like this, but enough is enough. You got a legion hall sitting out here on the corner, of 130 and Klockner, that’s in disarray.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: It’s coming down.

MR. CANDYA: Okay.

PRESIDENT PONE: Post 31.

MR. CANDYA: I’ve spoken a number of times on union hall, ex-union hall on the Corner of Roberts and Nottingham Way. The building was supposed to be up for sale; as you saw Kevin when you came by here, and the finally left out of there. I’ve came before the Planning Board quite a few meetings because they wanted to put a church there. None of the residents were asked about it. All the sudden, it was get a church in there. These people are not, now somebody else; they put a church in there. I don’t understand what’s going on with this property, and why this keeps on happening. It just can’t keep going on. You just can’t sit a church any where you want to without impact on the neighborhood. Parking, especially on that corner is very scares, and you got residents there, they don’t need … they want peace and quiet. If they don’t want a church there, they haven’t asked to have a church there, if there’s hollering and screaming and carrying on, whatever.

PRESIDENT PONE: What’s the… Where exactly is that church?

MR. CANDYA: It’s the old union hall for Delaval that sits right on the corner of Nottingham and Roberts Avenue.

PRESIDENT PONE: Nottingham and Roberts.

MR. CANDYA: They still got the for sale sign up there, but now there’s new occupants in there. I got a gentleman on East State Street, brought up before; he parks his car in the back on Roberts Avenue. He just put in a handicap spot that sits on the opposite side of the street, and he doesn’t park his car. The guy is an amputee, one leg and he parks over on the side by his house, but his handicap spot is on the other side. What good is it? And now he’s taking up space, somebody else can park at, you know it a waste. You need to say, you want the spot or not? Put it where it belongs. Anybody see in the paper the article about those alternative high schools in Hamilton?

PRESIDENT PONE: Yeah, I saw that.

MR. CANDYA: You saw that, with the amount of money per year? I called to talk to Keith Hamilton our Freeholder. I asked why they are doing this. And the reason why is that they’re not sending kids to the alternative high school that’s sitting on there by Mercer County which is the county thing because they want the funds. There can’t be that much funds to offset this. This is the same thing that was in that bond issue that got turned down. If we’re strapped for cash, now you’re asking me this, and you’re not asking for a lot of students. This article talks about kids that are dropping out of school. Like I said before, Nottingham right now, the quality of education is not up to par. You got a Superintendent of Schools that’s doing nothing about it. And he’s gonna turn around and build another school. The school across the street, how old is that school? That picture on that wall out there, that school is there. You can not do anything else with that elementary school, Farmingdale School is torn down. The kids in this area educational wise, but elementary students are being bussed somewhere else. Bussing alone is costing the township better than twelve million dollars a year. Now with the cost of gas, just fuel alone is going to go up each and every year. These people got to be accountable for it. This has got to stop.

PRESIDENT PONE: I don’t mind you bringing it up here, but you really should voice yourself at the School Board meeting.

MR. CANDYA: Last time I did, they called the cops on me. I don’t want to go through that again. At that time, Mr. Boyer was there, he didn’t like the idea.

PRESIDENT PONE: I can see calling the cops on Mr. Gambino, once in a while.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

MR. CANDYA: Mr. Boyer called the cops on me, and I don’t want to go through that again. It’s ridiculous. I mean, I have to bring it up to Council for a simple reason. Everybody comes here and complains about taxes. And I think that Council should turn around and ask the School Board, we’re trying to keep taxes down. What are you doing because whatever you do impacts our taxes a lot? And you’re not helping the situation. You’re not part of the solution; you’re part of the problem. And you have to work hand in hand. So that’s why I bring it here. I think Council should say something to them. They just shouldn’t let stuff like this just go on. There should be some kind of recourse, some kind of way. All right, thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thanks Mr. Candya. Mr. Capodanno.

VINCENT CAPODANNO, 4134 South Broad Street: Look Dennis, I don’t want to keep you, it’s late.

PRESIDENT PONE: I’ll time you.

MR. CAPODANNO: Employee morale. Being an x-union rep, I’m also a Councilman, follow my own business and I got different aspects on how to think about things when it comes to employees. If you continue to have bad communication, I’m not going to use the word union, with your employees; you’re going to destroy the morale of your workforce. If you destroy the morale of your workforce, your productivity is going to decrease. Some of the gains that you make by laying off or privatizing or whatever could be offset by: poor morale which translates into sick time, injury, just not wanting to work. I’m telling you, you can lose your workforce. When I was up on Council that was one of the things I had to consider. I didn’t want to sit up on Council and always have to agree with the unions. One of the things that my union used to do is and it taught me is a shop steward rep. was I had to tell the guys sometimes where I was at. I mean, if I had a slacker or somebody abusing their sick time, I couldn’t stick up for them all the time. So I know how to handle them, but I think this administration is at a point right now, where they’re going to lose their workforce. I think Council, you have an obligation to sit down with the administration once in a while and challenge them on certain things, and especially how they relate to the workforce so that you get higher morale. If you get higher morale, you’re going to have higher productivity. That’s all I’m trying to say, I’m not telling you what to do. Also, I have my differences, you have your differences with me, but you’re polite, you’re real polite. Some of the Councilmen I served with, they weren’t always polite. There was a lot of back and forth with the public. You always allow people to speak, and I got to commend you for that.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you.

MR. CAPODANNO: You run a really good meeting.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you.

MR. CAPODANNO: You’re gentlemen.

PRESIDENT PONE: I appreciate that.

MR. CAPODANNO: And you’re a great lawyer. Mr. Guhl, we have our differences, but I think that all I’m saying, I know you’re set in your ways, a lot of ways. But sometimes, just grasp, what people say. Try to understand that you’re here as the Business Administrator, you’re not an elected official. Certain people, the people on the walls, elected by people, fifteen thousand votes, fourteen thousand votes, thirteen thousand votes they’re the ones that basically were empowered by the people to run this township and that you’re the ones and the Mayor is the one that hires people to come here and do what they have to do, but yet, you’re the boss. The Mayor could appoint, but you confirm. So if you see in your minds that there is a problem with the employees and the administration sit down and talk. Thanks.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thanks Mr. Capodanno. Mr. Gambino.

ANTONIO C. GAMBINO: I want to rebut Mr. Candya’s remarks that he made. I’d like to say that I do take these meetings very seriously. Every once in a while, maybe I do maybe laugh in the back to break up the monotony a little bit. If I didn’t take these meetings seriously or this town seriously, I wouldn’t have ran for Mayor, I wouldn’t have ran for the School Board four times, and Council three times. See, you know, people think that they know me. They don’t really know me. They don’t know really anything about me; what I’m about, or what I really am. But they can… See, I let them they like to pick in this town. So I let people pick and pick and pick and pick away. Let them pick, pick, pick, pick, pick. And I just laugh it off, or I just shrug it off. But I’ve taken a lot of abuse in this town over the years; a lot. I’ve been in this town for close to thirty-three years, and I’ve taken a lot of abuse off and on thirty-three years in this town; a lot of abuse. But I let it go by because it shows me the mentality of some of the people in this town. Any other man okay, probably would have put a gun to his head and committed suicide, and that’s a fact. See I shrug a lot of things off because I judge people for what they are and what

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

I see. And I’ve seen some very ugly things in this town over the years. And people wonder why and how I am, and I’ll leave it at that.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thanks Mr. Gambino. Any one else? Charlie, you raised your hand? Holy cow!

CHARLIE FORMAN, 41 Mandl Street: I’ll try to be quick here. Regarding your situations with future cameras and things like that, traffic things and when it fails, and kind of like pass it on to you. I’m going to keep coming short and I’m going to make any of you wish to get back to me, regarding all that; feel free anytime this situation comes up and kind of look at that over and stuff. But that’s when it fails and what it does and how it impacts?

PRESIDENT PONE: And I asked them when they came before us; that’s good stuff, thank you Charlie. Augie, you got eighteen seconds.

AUGUST SCOTTO, Mark Twain Drive: Mr. Capodanno brought up about the union and you were having problems with them. You don’t look at them as a union; they are part of the township municipal government. And what they have to do like anybody with a brain is you don’t want to destroy your job. That’s what happened when Gilmore was in there. They never challenged him. They shut up, took what he gave them, and he ended up hurting them in the long run.

PRESIDENT PONE: Not me.

MR. SCOTTO: No I’m just talking about you have to take care of your job by taking care of the company or government that you work for. Anybody that thinks they can work for a job and just demand this demand that, they have no idea what jobs are all about. When the company in charge or the government in charge has trouble, they don’t have a job anymore. Too much of this goes on, people don’t understand. It bugs me because I look at these things and I say what’s the matter with people? Don’t they want to get a good job? Don’t they want to be able to continue working? The only way you do it is you make them work and make the company or the government prosperous. You don’t make them hurt. As a businessman you know when your business goes bad, they go.

PRESIDENT PONE: You’re a hundred percent right.

MR. SCOTTO: It’s just the way it’s going. Unfortunately, unfortunately, we got some politicians that don’t think that way. They think of Socialism. The government will take over and then you’ve got nothing. You think you have something there. Thank you.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Augie. I’m going to ask at this time for very short please comments from Council so we can get out of here. I’m going to call it Tony, we’ve heard from you all night.

COUNCILMAN KENNY: Thanks for coming out.

PRESIDNT PONE: Thank you Dave.

COUNCILMAN MEARA: I’d like to thank Council President, my fellow Council Members, the administration, and especially our clerk’s, and our directors for coming to these meetings. But I do have a few points that I just want to make and feel it’s important. I respect you’ve been doing this job for a long longtime. And no one is going to argue the effort that you put into things. But I just want to say that here in Hamilton Township, I really believe that the union leadership which is represented of the membership, the employees here they’re elected in those positions that they can really be an ally and I believe, I really believe that his would have been a whole different meeting. Just imagine if Officer Bagley and Mr. Kirkuff had come in front of the podium and said this plan was presented in front of us. We’ve had time to research it. It’s a great plan; we’ve got a couple issues with it. But it’s really going to work out and we’re saving people money. I just urge that there may be another way of getting things done. Finally, to my good friend Councilman Goodwin, tonight, you demonstrated an advanced knowledge of healthcare. Unfortunately, I don’t have that. So maybe some of my questions seemed not advanced or maybe even dumb. I do believe that someday, there may be an issue that I know more about. And when that happens, what I will tell you is that I will always, always treat you with respect. And I’ll leave what happened here tonight, here. But I’ll always treat you with respect. Thank you Mr. President.

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you Kevin, Kelly.

VICE-PRESIDENT YAEDE: Thanks for coming have a good night.

PRESIDENT PONE: Tom.

COUNCILMAN GOODWIN: Thank you for hanging in there with us, and good night.

Tuesday, June 4, 2008

PRESIDENT PONE: Thank you every one, as always and good night. I need a motion to adjourn.

ADJOURNMENT:

______Eileen Gore Dennis Pone Deputy Municipal Clerk Council President