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DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS ISSN 0542-5492 Second Session - Thirty-Second legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS 31-32 Elizabeth II Published under the authority of The Honourable D. James Walding Speaker VOL. XXXI No. 1678 - 8:00 p.m., TUESDAY, 24 JANUARY, 1984. Pnnted by the Office of the Queens Printer. Province of M111titoblll MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Second legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation Name Constituency Party ADAM, Hon. A.R. (Pete) Ste. Rose NO P ANSTETT, Hon. Andy Springfield NDP ASHTON, Steve Th ompson NDP BANMAN, Robert (Bob) La Verendrye PC BLAKE, David R. (Dave) Minnedosa PC BROWN, Arnold Rhineland PC BUCKLASCHUK, Hon. John M. Gimli NDP CARROLL, Q.C., Henry N. Brandon West IND CORRIN, Q.C., Brian Ell ice NDP COWAN, Hon. Jay Churchill NDP DESJARDINS, Hon. Laurent St. Boniface NDP DODICK, Doreen Riel NO P DOERN, Russell Elmwood NOP DOLIN, Hon. Mary Beth Kildonan NOP DOWNEY, James E. Arthur PC DRIEDGER, Albert Emerson PC ENNS, Harry Lakeside PC EVANS, Hon. Leonard S. Brandon East NDP EYLER, Phil River East NOP FILMON, Gary Tuxedo PC FOX, Peter Concordia NO P GOURLAY, D.M. (Doug) Swan River PC GRAHAM, Harry Virden PC HAMMOND, Gerrie Kirkfield Park PC HARAPIAK, Harry M. The Pas NOP HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NOP HEMPHILL, Hon. Maureen Logan NOP HYDE, Lloyd Portage la Prairie PC JOHNSTON, J. Frank Sturgeon Creek PC KOSTYRA, Hon. Eugene Seven Oaks NOP KOVNATS, Abe Niakwa PC LECUYER, Hon. Gerard Radisson NOP LY ON, Q.C., Hon. Sterling Charleswood PC MACKLING, Q.C., Hon. Al St. James NOP MALINOWSKI, Donald M. St . Johns NOP ,. MANNESS, Clayton Morris PC ... McKENZIE, J. Wally Roblin-Russell PC MERCIER, Q.C., G.W.J. (Gerry) St. Norbert PC NORDMAN, Rurik (Ric) Assiniboia PC OLESON, Charlotte Gladstone PC ORCHARD, Donald Pembina PC PAWLEY, Q.C., Hon. Howard R. Selkirk NOP PARASIUK, Hon. Wilson Transcona NOP PENNER, Q.C., Hon. Roland Fort Rouge NO P PHILLIPS, Myrna A. Wolseley NDP PLOHMAN, Hon. John Dauphin NDP RANSOM, A. Brian Tu rt le Mountain PC SANTOS, Conrad Burrows NOP SCHROEDER, Hon. Vic Rossmere NDP SCOTT, Don lnkster NOP SHERMAN, L.R. (Bud) Fort Garry PC SMITH, Hon. Muriel Osborne NO P STEEN, Warren River Heights PC STORIE, Hon. Jerry T. Flin Flon NOP URUSKI, Hon. Bill Interlake NOP USKIW, Hon. Samuel Lac du Bonnet NDP WALDING, Hon. D. James St. Vital NOP LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, 24 January, 1984. Time - 8:00 p.m. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. ADJOURNED DEBATE ON SECOND HON. V. SCHROEDER: . it was a decision of all of READING us to choose to come here and say that we weren't going to have public hearings. We changed our position on that in June of 1983, and at the end of July of 1983 BILL NO. 115 - AN ACT RESPECTING THE the opposition was st ill in here talking about the fact OPERATION OF SECTION 23 OF - and in August - that back in June we had done THE MANITOBA ACT someth ing that was not right . But in June we were saying as soon as these people finish talking we will MR. SPEAKER, Hon. J. Walding: Order please. take this matter to the public, we will hear people in On the proposed motion of the Honourable Winnipeg, in Brandon, in Thompson, in other centres Government House Leader, the amendment thereto of the province. As soon as they allowed us out of here, proposed by the Honourable Leader of the Opposition, after six weeks of the kind of kicking and screaming the Honourable Minister of Finance has 26 minutes that they were doing now in the last few days, they remaining. finally allowed us out of here to get to those hearings. As a result of those hearings, the package that we are HON. V. SCHROEDER: Th ank you, Mr. Speaker. As I here in the Legislature with, is a completely different had indicat ed this afternoon, during all of the speeches package from what we had proposed initially. given to date by the opposition on this issue of Bill To begin with, there is not one area wh ere we have 115, I can recall only one reference and that was by in the constitutional amendment that is before this the Member for Sturgeon Creek to Bill 115 wh en he Chamber now, expanded French language rights in the discussed the issue of the ombudsman. Province of Manitoba, not one. What we have done is propose to take away the right , the possible right, the A MEMBER: It was a mistake. probable right of French-speaking Manitobans to insist on the translation of 4,500 stat utes, and in turn have HON. V. SCHROEDER: It may well have been a mistake, said we will translate 400 of them. Th at 's what we've and we have to get back to the history of it because done. wh at they are talking about, what the opposition is We have also said to French-speaking Manitobans talking about, is a matter that is not before this that we will not tolerate in this province the kind of Chamber. bigotry that happened in the Province of Quebec with Bill 101, wh ere the English-speaking minority had its A MEMBER: Yo u sh ould have spoken to your Leader, rights taken away by the Government of Quebec, by the Premier, then. What did he speak about? the Levesque Government , the Separatists - a government and a bill, which incidentally, the MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Conservatives supported wh en they were in office. They supported Bill 101 in court. They went to court to HON. V. SCHROEDER: Mr. Speaker, the issue is Bill support the position that the Quebec Government could 115, French language services in this province and, as take away English language rights from the people, the indicated, in the spring, in March of 1982, the Premier minority in Quebec. That 's what they did. We have said made an announcement with respect to wh at French we're not prepared to do that and we're prepared to language serv ices this government was prepared to pass an amendment to the Constitution to that effect , provide. The opposition never opposed it, indeed, and I believe the bulk of Manitoba, the vast majority indicated that they supported it. We then go into the of Manitobans would support us on that. matter of the amendment of the Constitution of wh ich we gave the opposition notice in December of 1982. SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh , oh ! Th ey chose to sit in the bush, do nothing, say nothing, until May of 1983. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. A MEMBER: Not true. HON. V. SCHROEDER: Th ere is not one other . HON. V. SCHROEDER: It's true. Well, Mr. Speaker, I'd MR. SPEAKER: Order please. like to see someth ing on the record indicating that The Honourable Member for Virden on a point of there was any indication that that is incorrect. I would order. like to see some quotes on that. Certainly I haven't see them. MR. H. GRAHAM: Ye s. Th e honourable member has In June of 1983 we brought the proposals to the put forward innumerable positions that they're not House, or May, and in my opinion, we were wrong in prepared to support. Will he put forward one "position terms of saying - and it was a caucus decision . they are prepared to support? A MEMBER: Yo u were wrong then and you are wrong MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Th e honourable member now. knows that is not a point of order. 5694 Tuesday, 24 January, 1984 The Honourable Minister of Finance. plausible to a wider audience, Mr. Filmon should work out an argument that is related to what the government HON. V. SCHROEDER: Mr. Speaker, as a former is proposing. Speaker of this Chamber, one would think that we would "There is a risk, Mr. Filmon says, that the proposal get a better performance than that. might be interpreted to bring about an expansion of Let us re-emphasis the constitutional amendment that French language rights beyond those now established. is before this Chamber today. It takes away the probable He wisely does not try to cite the proposed words which rights of French-speaking Manitobans to the translation will accomplish this, nor describe the expansion he has of 4,000 of 4,500 statutes, that's No. 1. No. 2, it provides in mind and the damage it will do to Manitoba. them with a shield with respect to their rights that are "There is a risk, when Mr. Filmon gets out of bed presently existing. each morning that he will fall and break his bones, but Mr. Speaker, we have the legal opinion of Mr. Kerr he does get up nonetheless. He does not lie there Twaddle, who happens to be a very prominent paralyzed with fear, calculating the risks and pondering Conservative lawyer in this province. a capable lawyer, the imponderables. He looks rationally at what the risks even though he's a Conservative. There are capable are, sorts out those things that are worth worrying about people in the Conservative Party, regrettably not very from those that are not. Judging the risks in the many of them in the Legislature, and what he says in constitutional amendment is worth at least that much terms of any possibility of our constitutional amendment intellectual effort. expanding French language rights he says is a remote "When a frightened child fears a monster in the closet, possibility - a remote possibility.
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