The Skating Lesson Podcast Transcript TSL: 2013 World Championships Ladies Preview with PJ Kwong

Jenny: Hello, and welcome to The Skating Lesson podcast! I’m , a former US ladies competitor and a three-time world team member.

Dave: I’m David Lease. I’ve only ever done a in my socks in my kitchen, but I am a figure skating blogger and a current adult skater.

Jenny: In this video, we’re gonna talk about the ladies event at the 2013 world championships, previewing it with Canadian journalist PJ Kwong.

[PJ Kwong enters]

Jenny: Let’s start with the reigning world champion, . Long program that has people talking this season. PJ, what is your impression of her long program, and coming in as the reigning world champion, how do you think she’s gonna handle that pressure?

PJ: I think she’s gonna be world champion again. I love that Bolero program. I don’t think I’ve seen a better women’s program in I don’t know how long. In fact, it’s on my favorite – oh, let me just watch Carolina again. Even though she didn’t skate like perfectly at Europeans, I just think that it’s so innovative and so creative. I love it. And I think that everybody – she’ll have to skate. That’s the thing. There can’t be any mistakes. But if she skates like she can skate it, I think it’s hers to lose. That’s what I think.

Jenny: Dave? I agree. Dave?

Dave: Well, I wonder if she’s doing enough content in the short program to – I don’t think she’s gonna win the short program. I think she’ll be maybe third or fourth after the short, but I think based on all the skating we’ve seen this year, I could see her after two programs being the champion. We had a discussion about – how do you feel about the stopping in the middle of her program? She kind of takes a breath…

PJ: I like it because to me, it’s not like figure standing, you know, when we were talking about Amodio where he just seems to take a break. This to me is like theater – it’s woven into the program somehow. So I don’t see it as a – it doesn’t break the mood. It doesn’t break the continuity for me. It feels [audio cuts out], so it doesn’t bother me at all. There are other people that I know that it does bother, but for me, it feels like it’s part of the whole thing.

Dave: Did it bother you that she was world champion without doing a full arsenal of triples or at least a triple lutz last year?

PJ: Well, she had help getting to the top of the podium, right? So, you know, at the end of the day, she who has the most points wins. So that’s the way it has to happen, right? So there are times that we’ve had – we’ve all been to world championships and seen world championships where you think – what? But at the end of the day, people are ranked. So I’d love for Carolina to have the best possible skate she can. I mean, when I met with her in the fall, she was talking about taking a break and find her reason to love skating again. And I think that’s she’s done that. So, you know, she’s one of those people that I really hope has just a sensational outing – I hope the same for and in particular. I just really want them to have the skate of their lives. The results go where they may. But for them to really to do it, especially Mao. I mean, she’s a sentimental favorite of mine, you know, she’s been through so much. I’d love for her to just really be able to just leave her mark that way this year. Dave: Yeah, I think with Carolina, it’s interesting. I wasn’t a huge fan of the beginning. I thought she was very gangly and awkward for many years. And I think a lot of Americans were introduced to Carolina in kind of a fighting way. There was – everything was very controversial at the 2005 worlds. A lot of Americans felt that Michelle was dinged in the short and perhaps not rewarded, and it was a very close result in that free skate. And Carolina kicked our ice queen off the podium. And I think that she will never be forgiven by a lot of Americans, and I think that I honestly believe this because all of ’s rivals have been perceived as villains in the US media. You look at anyone who ever dared to beat her. And I go back to – that’s how we were introduced to Carolina, and then she fell a lot. But she’s seemed to have a transformation over the last few years. I think that if she performs like she’s capable of, I’m very interested. Now, she’s up against Yu-Na Kim. And I wanna know what you both think about Yu-Na Kim’s comeback. She’s obviously physically outstanding. I wonder about her reasons for coming back – if she’s pressured to be the star in Korea, if she needs to keep competing to keep that alive because she skipped Four Continents. And yes, her fans are going to say that she was doing the Special Olympics with Michelle Kwan. We also know that people do not do charity shows for free at her level. And she made a decision not only not to do that event, but then she didn’t do the recent Challenge Cup that Carolina did. So, I’m wondering – does Yu-Na really wanna compete all the time? And if you don’t wanna compete, can you possibly be in the mental state to win? I don’t know Yu-Na personally, but I think it’s interesting – is she all in? Because I don’t get the vibe from Yu-Na Kim that she’s all into skating, all into competing, and this is where her heart is. What do you take, Jenny? And then go to PJ.

Jenny: I agree, Dave. I don’t think it was a smart choice to do such few – so many few events. This season, we saw her at pre-nationals, and that short program. Falling skating into her combination, then popping the lutz. She did skate a really good long program, which was really impressive and great to see. And I think when she is on, she is the best in the world. She really has her jumps, speed. I like her long program this season. Don’t love the dresses – I don’t like the V in the short program, and the long program just I think is a little dowdy. But that shouldn’t affect her marks at all. Just a personal thing. But I think that someone like Carolina – what we’re seeing from her is she’s doing the hard work as a skater which is going to these events that you don’t want to go to, putting the jumps out there. I loved seeing, just back to Carolina, loved seeing the triple lutz in the long program, triple flip-triple toe. She’s upping the ante technically. Last year, the triple jumps she did in her long program were magnificent, but I felt that I was watching a junior ladies’ long program as opposed to a senior lady, just technically. So I think someone like Carolina – if she can handle the pressure coming in as the world champion, the reigning world champion, she’s my pick for the title over someone like Yu-Na Kim. I think this may be an unfortunate wake-up call for Yu-Na if she comes to this event, and you cannot go in and compare a world championship to show skating. It just doesn’t – the way it feels as an athlete is completely different. And we saw her struggle a couple of years ago when she tried to do that, and I don’t see this year being any different. What do you think, PJ?

PJ: Do you know, I have to agree with you. I think – here’s what I admire about her. I believe that the Korean federation would like very much to be a strong presence at the Olympics. They’re not going to be able to do that unless Yu-Na comes and gets two spots for them. So I admire her willingness to pay back the sport and the country that has done so much for her, so I think that that’s a very admirable quality. I think that she hasn’t had enough competitive experience, which is why if she were to take the title, it would be on the strength of other people’s mistakes, and a flukey, excellent performance. Flukey – and I don’t mean that in a disrespectful way. What I mean is, if you haven’t had a chance to really compete, then you’re kind of out of practice for that whole thing. Like, we all know that, right? Like when I get back to the beginning of the season, it’s like, “okay, how do I range all the stuff in my head again?” So, I think that she may be out of practice and competing, and everybody else has been doing the work this season. So I think it’s a long shot for her for that reason. Not that she isn’t capable, but because there are other people who are really gunning for it.

Jenny: Yeah. Dave?

Dave: I think that if she skates cleanly and at her best, Yu-Na will win. I think that that will happen. I don’t think she is as dominant as she was in 2010. I did feel that her marks were a bit inflated in 2010. I mean, there have long been criticisms about her spiral, about her layback. Does she deserve the marks that she’s getting? Is the spiral about the leg or is it about the edge? I think that Yu-Na – if she does do cleanly, I think that she could win. I question if she can do two clean programs. We saw in 2011, she looked scared out there at the world championships like she knew she was underprepared. And I could see a similar situation happening. She did a great long program at Korean nationals, but she had a very messy short. And I don’t see her being able to come from behind and win with this field because there are, again, like the men, a lot of contenders in the ladies event. And I question that. Now, Yu-Na’s rival for so long has been Mao Asada. I want to know from both of you – how do you feel that Mao is doing this year? She changed her technique a couple years ago, and we’ve never seen Mao at a level she was at in 2010. She’s starting to put the triple axel back in. Is it – is she putting everything together in enough time to be the world champion this year?

Jenny: I’ll start. I think she is. I love seeing the triple axel – I like the programs this year. We talked about it after Four Continents. She seems happy, she seems like she has that fire. The biggest question with Mao is gonna be the underrotations, particularly on the triple flip-triple loop in the long program. Keeping that focus, not doubling any jumps. But I think coming off a win at Four Continents – as a skater, that gives you that confidence going into the worlds. She has been competing – it’s been a rocky few years, definitely last year at the world championships it wasn’t the best for Mao. But I think heading into Sochi, she’s peaking at the right time. What do you think, PJ?

PJ: I think – my view of Mao is that she’s still developing. She’s still back, she’s on the comeback trail. So if I were gonna do an early pick for Olympic champion, she would probably be my pick for Olympic champion next year versus world champion this year. I think that she’s still a little bit uneven in terms of her performances, although the results have been great all season. The fact that she’s just not – magical, Magical Mao that we had from a few years ago. It’s coming back, there are glimmers of it. I love the long program this year, I think it’s beautiful for her, and her short as well – I really like both of her programs. I think, though, that she’s still finding her feet again. I mean, she – losing her mother like she did was a devastating blow, and then deconstructing the jumps and putting them back together again. I mean, you know, even teaching little wee kids, you get a kid who comes to you and you’ve got a wrapped free leg on a single jump. It’s very difficult to change those bad habits from, you know, flipping the edge going into a jump to whatever it happens to be. So they deconstruct the jumps and take them all the way back and then rebuild, I think is something that – good for her for doing, but I think that next year is when she becomes the real threat, again, I think.

Jenny: Okay. Dave, do you see Mao at the top of the podium at worlds this year?

Dave: I think it’s certainly possible. I don’t predict it happening. I think it’s – I kind of see her finishing about second this year. I think she’s gonna definitely move up from last year, but I – you know, Mao, she’s starting to put everything back together. We still see some mistakes from her. You know, she doesn’t have a great lutz, it’s not gonna be judged as well. And, you know, we haven’t seen Mao happy since she won her first world title. We saw that she looked relieved when she won her second world title in 2010. But she’s never looked as happy to me. I think the pressure of being the Olympic champion, perhaps competing against Yu-Na with Yu-Na’s scores before, and obviously losing her mother – I think she’s obviously the sentimental favorite of everyone. And I go back to that, she’s doing ’s old short program this year. I’m kind of lost on why Lori gave her the old program of her old competitor move for move for move. But I…

PJ: Is it really?

Dave: Yes.

PJ: I’m gonna have to go back and check. Okay!

Dave: Mirai Nagasu 2008, nationals short program. And yeah, it’s interesting to me. But I think that it’s actually a good program for Mao because she looks happy. And we haven’t seen Mao look happy in a long time. I think the triple axel is such a confidence thing with her. The rest for skating seemed to fall in line. And I agree with you. I think she’s coming back in time for the Olympics. I don’t know if it’s time enough for this year. Now someone that is really generating a lot of buzz up north is Katelyn Osmond. She won Canadian nationals, she won the , she won Skate . How do you see her chances going into the world championships this year?

PJ: Well, you know what, here’s what I know. Her coach Ravi Walia is a very, very, very smart man. And I think that Katelyn is very young. I mean, she’s a teenager. So when you talk to her, you’re talking to a teenager. I mean, it’s very clear this is not, sort of, a precocious person that is, you know, pretending to be an adult. This is a very young person. So he has done a very good job of preparing her. I think that when she gets to the world championships, I think that she has the ability to contend certainly for a top ten spot if not in the final flight. But it will require – what will be required of her is to skate an excellent short program right out of the gate, and then to follow it up with the kind of long that she skated at . So based on that, she definitely – I don’t see her [inaudible] the podium this year. I think that she’s sort of a future skater. I don’t even see her – I see her as a 2018 kind of skater as opposed to a 2014 Olympic skater. I think she is somebody that can start to help rebuild women’s figure skating in Canada. There are a couple of them – all three teenagers that were on the podium are really good hopes for Canada. So I think Katelyn – if she can focus on doing her job and helping Canada earn two stops – two stops – two spots for the Olympics and for worlds next year, I think that that would be a huge accomplishment. What do you guys think?

Jenny: Yeah, I agree. I think she has so much posse, just that charisma on the ice. I love how she’s – her in betweens. The transitions in and out of the jumps, particularly in the short program, really strong part of her skating. But she’s young, and I see a lack of focus at Canadian nationals skating such a great program and then completely wiping out on the double axel, the last jump. And you think, that’s just experience, and she has to have that focus. A bit question mark for her – there’s gonna be a lot of pressure having the event in Canada, and it’ll be really interesting to see just as an athlete if she’s somebody who rises to the occasion, which we really all I think hope for, or she’s somebody who shies away from that. She did so well at Skate Canada, but there was no pressure on her at all at that event. So I would like to see her come really feed off that crowd and skate really well. There are a few things about her skating that I think she could work on – some of the posture, there’s a little bit of tweaking in terms of the choreography, just the polish. But like you, PJ, I see her as a contender in 2018, and I think the next four years are really her four years to shine. What do you think, Dave?

Dave: Well, I think it’s so interesting because coming from an American, we’re known for having our ladies. And we’re very critical of ladies. And we often would joke about the Canadian ladies for years. And one thing about the difference between American culture and Canadian culture is that I see that the Canadians really get behind their skaters where we really criticize. We want Ashley to be world champion now. We want her to have everything, and when she doesn’t, we’re very upset about it. And I think in Canadian culture, you all seem to support your skaters more, and I think we’re left wondering – is this plan that you’re trying to buzz them up on purpose? Is everyone just excited? Because I think that it happens a lot, where was really buzzed for a couple of years before she finally reached the podium. Yeah, we were hearing that she was going to, I think earlier, and there were so many articles once Katelyn started to have a little bit of success that she’s going to beat Yu-Na Kim – that was a Korean article. I know that you picked her to win Four Continents. And it’s almost like an echo effect, where there’s so much buzz around her. I really wonder – can she deliver? Is she going to be another Tracey Wainman, you know, who really succumbed to that pressure. And I do – I wonder. And what’s your take on the Canadian buzz? Is it deliberate? Are you trying to build the skaters up, or it is just…

PJ: Do you know what? I think that we have been in the unfortunate position in too many years to count where there’s been maybe one lady and really everybody else has been a bit of a crapshoot. So this year, , , Katelyn Osmond, and then Julianne Séguin – they are all very strong skaters. So that was really exciting to see at a Canadian nationals is to see more than just sort of the top skater and then everybody else. So we’ve had rivalries before, let’s say between Joannie Rochette and . But there haven’t been like a cluster of skaters that have been considered to be strong. I think what Katelyn has going in her favor is her youth and her inexperience. In that, I think when she hits the ice at worlds, I don’t think that it’s going to be – I don’t think she really realizes where she is, do you know what I mean? I remember talking to , and he told me his first world title was just like a blast. But the whole next year was just a bit of a train wreck because he all of a sudden realized, “oh, my goodness, I’m world champion which means I can’t ever fall, I can’t ever do..” He just said it was havoc in his head. She’s not at the stage yet in her maturation that she, I don’t think world championships are capital W capital C World Championships. So I think it’s just another competition. Plus I think that in Osaka, based on some of the tweets that I read after the fact, I think that the jetlag caught her by surprise among other things. So coming to London, – I think that that’s probably a little bit easier than maybe travelling to for a competition. And I think that she’s not the only one. I think everybody was just really excited at Canadians at the quality of the women’s event. It’s been a long time since we’ve had that kind of quality. So that was really kind of fun. So whatever – no, I was just gonna say, whatever Canadians have just have just burst into mount for naught, I don’t know. There’s been lots of chatter for years of – uh oh, who have we got? No women coming up. No, you know, ladies happening. And here at Canadians there were, so it was great.

Jenny: Well, another skater who’s created such a buzz here in the is . First time, just like Osmond, first time at the world championships. And inconsistency has really plagued Gracie. We saw it at Four Continents. Still, how do you see, PJ, as her coming into this event, how do you see her stacking up against the best women in the world?

PJ: Do you know what, I love Gracie Gold. And I keep hearing about people talking about her body and lack of movement in the upper body, and again, she’s a baby. She’s got time to really finesse her style. But, you know what, you can’t teach jumps like that. Those jumps are just outstanding, and they are in her back pocket when she skates well. And you’re right – consistency is a factor at this point, but really, again, I think that that comes down to experience. I think that you’ve got a lot of women that are really quite amazing. I love . She is kind of my secret little – like I think about her and I think about her skating and I think about how well she is doing. I just – I’m very impressed by her, and of course . My goodness, I remember her probably at a junior worlds championship with Shirley Hughes with her little pigtails or whatever. And I loved kind of her peppiness, her spunk, and here she’s evolved into this glorious skater. I think it’s just thrilling. So Gracie Gold – people have to just give her some breathing room and allow her to just grow up a little bit. But she’s certainly got the bones of a strong contender as far as I’m concerned. Not today, maybe.

Jenny: Dave – yeah. Maybe I would say in a couple years, and it seems like America is putting so much pressure in terms of the NBC, the media on her to just have this lights out performance. And I think the best thing for her is to take the pressure off of her. She has again, like Osmond, she has five years to really peak and come up in the sport. Dave, what do you think about Gracie, and PJ, you mentioned Ashley Wagner. How do you think Ashley’s chances are at this world championships?

PJ: I think she’s gonna be on the podium.

Dave: Well, I think it’s interesting. Okay. For me for Gracie and Osmond, I think that they both had two things going on at the Four Continents. I think you talked about the jetlag. Gracie also had US nationals. For years – I don’t know why we don’t move our nationals to another week so that we’re not so back-to-back with Four Continents. Our skaters look like they’re ready for a coma or a long nap after finals week. Every year, we don’t go into Four Continents prepared. And I do think it hurts us momentum and buzz-wise going into worlds. I think that we come from behind people. I think that both Gracie and Osmond are fighting a bit of the buzz. I think that they may be both aware of the buzz around them and that they’re having to figure them out for themselves mentally. And I think that the Americans – we’re now kind of in the state that Canada was for a long time where we don’t have that lady at the top, and we’re panicking. There is a panicking state. We have, you know, one of the top two dance teams in the world, but the sky is falling in American figure skating if you ask anyone. You know, it’s like, that’s great with Meryl and Charlie, but we don’t have a lady. Like, let’s get it together. I think with – you know, Evan’s Olympic champion and no one cares. It’s all about the ladies. So, I think Gracie – she’s fighting that. I think that even, you know, the biggest voice in US skating is from Phil Hersh, and she’s kind of a local hometown girl for Phil Hersh. He’s very excited about her and written a lot of articles. And I think that it’s hurting Gracie. She’s had a career of, even at the lower ranks where she didn’t make junior nationals one year, and then she won the next year. And I still see that mentally. It’s not always there like some of the best. As far as Ashley – I could see a situation where Ashley skates her absolute best and everyone else skates their best, and she finishes the same or lower than last year even though I think she’s a much better skater than she was last year. I think the field has just evolved more. I think the ladies are doing harder jumps and that Carolina is stronger than she was last year. I don’t know how Ashley fits in at these worlds. But we also haven’t seen her at her best since really Trophée Eric Bompard. So I think that it’ll be really interesting to see how Ashley does. She’s gotta put the triple-triple in the short, and that’s a risk, but I think that if Ashley doesn’t do the triple-triple in the short, she will be buried just like last year. She was buried in the short, and she has to do it. You know what, she didn’t get to do Four Continents, you know, there were a lot of problems – food poisoning, injury. She has to do it, and this is kind of her make it-break it moment. And I think Ashley could be on the podium – she could be fifth. I think it’s gonna be somewhere between second and fifth for Ashley this year, but I do think this world championships will be very important in her career.

PJ: Yup, I think you’re right. I think you’re right. And it’s funny about Gracie, too. I think that that consistency is just one of those things that well, she’ll figure it out or she won’t. But the talent is there. And I think that it must be hard – you know, in the United States, you guys have owned the women’s event for such a long time. I mean, how many great American ladies have been, you know, world champions, Olympic champions. It’s just been so exciting. So I can see why people might panic in thinking that there isn’t somebody there to take the place. But I don’t think that’s necessarily – I don’t think that’s necessarily something to be worried about because I really do think that Ashley is the real deal. I love watching her skate. She takes me back to sort of those glorious days of US ladies figure skating. So I’m hoping if everybody skates well, if everybody skates their best, I see that Ashley should be on the podium, I think.

Dave: Well, we talk about buzz, and for years we’ve been hearing about that the Russian juniors are going to come and dominate the sport for Sochi and beyond. And we saw and Elizaveta Tutkamisheva as juniors really dominate. You know, do those seven triple longs. They haven’t done that as much as seniors. How do you see them fitting into these world championships this year?

PJ: Elizaveta is the one that I really have my eye on because she’s gone through that growth spurt. She seems to have sort of have adjusted. She’s got great power and height in those jumps, and there’s just something I like about her. I mean, she sort of has an imperious kind of diva quality and frankly, I find wonderful because she sort of has that “take no prisoners” kind of look. I don’t think that this is her year. I think that we’re looking at next year or beyond for her to really hit. But I just think that there’s something about a diva that I just find really totally watchable. I love it. I’m crazy, I know.

Jenny: No, particularly a Russian diva.

PJ: Oh, they’re the best!

Dave: What do you think, Jenny?

Jenny: You know, I don’t love Adelina’s long program. She’s skating to that , at last I thought I was watching Johnny Weir. It’s just a little bit messy. I think she has the jumps. And like you said, but some of her landings, her knee is a little bit bend. It’s – I don’t think it’s all coming together at this point. I think she could be a surprise finish on the podium if we see some other women not skating as well as they could. But I don’t see her beating someone like Ashley Wagner or Mao Asada, Yu-Na Kim. So I think she could be in the top five. I expect a top five finish. But I don’t think a first place finish. In terms of Elizaveta, I think – she has the triple lutz-triple toe. She skated great at Europeans, great height on the jumps, great speed. But she does give me that raised knee on her triple lutz and her triple flip. She picks on the side of her toe pick, and we’ve seen this in Russian ladies often. And what that’s going to happen is if that toe pick collapses on you, you’re going to drop that shoulder, and you’re not going to have that takeoff that you need on the jumps. When she’s on, she’s great as well. What do you think about the two, Dave?

Dave: Well, I think it’s that Russian skating technique. And they do things more from a curve. I think in America, we really have that -Owen technique that’s been passed down to Frank Carroll, Ron Ludington where everything is from a straight line. As far as Adelina, I watched her about a year or two ago with . We were watching her programs together, and she [Tara] pointed that even when she [Adelina] was at her best in junior worlds, she [Adelina] was kind of loose in the air. And it was interesting that as she became a senior, she started to become inconsistent with her jumps. She pops that triple flip a lot. I think we go to Elizaveta – she’s someone to me who’s so sloppy in between the jumps. Her jumps are so great, but to me she is such a skater. And it worked for Plushenko because she’s a man. And – Evgeni is a man, sorry! Evgeni is a man, and for that, it kind of works. You don’t have to be picture-perfect. There’s a different standard for ladies where everything needs to be polished. And there’s no room for bent legs or sloppiness. And I really think that she reminds me of Plushenko, and it doesn’t work for a ladies skater. She’s figuring out her body. I see it in a year or two. To me, she’s someone I don’t count out because she reminds me of that gymnast from Russia, Aliya Mustafina, where they have that diva, that fighter. And it’s not just a diva, it’s a fighting personality where they’re going to go out there and force themselves to give their best performance. And you know, I mean diva not in the way of throwing a tantrum, but they’re gonna will themselves to get it done no matter what. I don’t see it happening for her this year, but she’s someone that I can’t – I can’t ignore. And I think lastly – how do you think Akiko Suzuki will do this year?

PJ: Do you know, Akiko Suzuki for me is like the little-engine-that-could. I love the fact that she has stayed in the sport and that she’s pushed through some very difficult situations. I don’t think – she’s not what I would call a skater for the ages. I think that, you know, when we get fifteen years down the line, people will remember Mao Asada. I’m not sure that they’ll remember Akiko Suzuki or . I think that, you know, she’s a strong competitor. It’s great to have her in the field. She’s in the hunt, but I don’t know – you know what I mean? It sounds like I’m really dissing her, and I’m not because again, she’s a solid competitor. I just think that it takes a lot of work for Suzuki to be up at the same level as some of the other ladies who are there naturally. I guess that’s the easiest way to put it. So, you know, beautiful costumes. Her long costume, you know, from Cirque du Soleil – ah! It’s exquisite! So, she needs, for me, she needs those extra little bits to really make her big competitive. And good for her for using everything available to her. But, you know, if you were to strip everybody down to just leotards and expression, she’d need to have like the exquisite program, and that all these things layered on top of her to really bring the very best out of her. Does that make any sense?

Jenny: Yeah, I completely agree, PJ. I think there’s nothing really special about her skating. And really, her strength is her lack of weakness. She’s a good, solid skater. And she’s pretty consistent. She skates well. We saw it last year – we can capitalize on other people’s errors. And again, wonderful story. But yeah, I don’t see that there’s anything really memorable about her skating. Strong skater, but nothing that great. Dave, what do you think about Suzuki, and then let’s hear your predictions for the women’s event.

Dave: Okay. Well, Suzuki seems like such a girl, and she’s so pleasant to watch. I think people love her knee bend, her edges, just love her skating. But I think – you talk about Elizaveta being a bit of a diva, and think I have never met a lady skater who’s been a junior world champion or a national champion or something who doesn’t have a bit of that grit that terrifies me a little bit of getting in the crosshairs about them, like my cohost.

Jenny: I was gonna say, are you speaking about me?

Dave: So, I think, you know, I wouldn’t wanna meet some of these ladies who meet on the podium. I wouldn’t want to meet them in a dark alley if they were angry, and I don’t get that vibe from Akiko, that command that she’s gonna nail it no matter what. And I think it takes that extra grit as a ladies competitor. Because it’s – and it’s so deceiving because they’re so elegant and graceful. But I think they’re some of the toughest competitors out there. And I think that that’s what Akiko lacks. It’s that extra…

Jenny: Killer instinct.

PJ: Killer instinct. You know what, that’s the perfect way to put it because I was thinking about – I was trying to, I realized, totally inarticulate when I was saying that she needs stuff layered on top of her. So almost like a veil of protection in a way because stripped down to the bare bones, she’s not the same kind of competitor as some of the other ladies. So we’re saying exactly the same thing. I just said it poorly.

Dave: Yeah, I mean, look at Ashley Wagner when she goes into that flip, she’s gonna get it done. And I think that that’s exciting, and I think that’s what Akiko lacks. So podium finishes – I keep going back to the top four. I think the top four skaters are going to be Wagner, Kostner, Yu-Na, Mao Asada. Throw it in the trash, come down – I think Carolina is going to win it again.

Jenny: I completely agree.

Dave: And I think that I could see Ashley on the podium, I could see Yu-Na on the podium, I could see Yu-Na if everyone messes up. I don’t see Yu-Na winning, though. I think that Carolina will win, I think that Mao will be second and Yu-Na will be third.

Jenny: PJ, you’re on!

PJ: Do you know what, it’s funny, because all this time I keep forgetting about Yu-Na being in, so I was gonna go with Carolina first, Mao second, and Ashley third. I actually think it’s gonna be between Ashley and Yu-Na for the bronze medal, depending – and it will depend on Ashley. It’s Ashley’s to lose, that bronze medal, because if she skates the way she can skate and as on, then I think that she will be – I think that she’ll be third. So, if not, then I think Yu-Na’ll be in third.

Jenny: I’m going Carolina, Yu-Na, Ashley, Mao. That’s it.

PJ: Wow! Good for you – do you know what’s funny, and this is what was so interesting in my coach’s room. We all had the same people, you know, men’s, ladies, pairs, dance, but in different orders. So – we’re all on the money one way or the other because we all agree, basically. It just will come down to who actually puts it on on the day. Are you guys going out to worlds?

Jenny: No, we’ll be tweeting and watching. Hopefully it’ll be on the internet, and we’ll be able to watch it live. But regardless, it’s gonna be a very exciting event.