Second S«rJ«>, Vol. XVII— » « , «* 7th j/klty, l f 5*

L O K S A B H A

DEBATES

m m n m

(Voi. XVJi cc m a in t Nos. 61—64)

LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW DELHI

92 a> (nun) Turks Shillings ( r o m a e x ) CONTENTS C olumns Oral Answers to Question?— Starred ^Questions Nos. 2036, 2037 to 2039,2041 and 2043 to 2053 ...... 13553—9i* Short Notice Question No. 1 9 ...... 13593—99 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 2040, 2042,2054 to 2075 and 1899 . 13599— i3 6l 4- Unstarred Questions Nos. 3356 to 3444 and 3446 to 3478 13614—8b • Papers laid on the Table ...... 13688— 90 Committee on Private Members Bills and Resolutions— Twenty-Second Report . . . 1309' Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance— Accumulation of Kalyan Cotton .... 13690— 94 Leave of Absence from sittings of the House 13694— 97 Correction of Supplementary to Starred Question No. 1738 . 13697— 13700 Trade and Merchandise Marks Bill— Motion to Refer to Joint Committee. . . . . 13700— 50 Shri Narayanankutty Menon ..... 13700— 11 Shri Naushir Bharucha ...... 13712— 20 Shri S u p a k a r...... 13720— 22 Shri Braj Raj S i n g h ...... 13722— 28 Shri D. C. Sharma ...... 13728— 37 Shri Balasaheb Patil ...... 13737—47 Shri K a n u n g o ...... 13747—49 Indian Stamp (Amendment) Bill— M otion to C o n s i d e r ...... 1375°— 73 Shri B. R. B h a g a t ...... • i375°> 13752* 13763— 67 Shri Nath Pai...... 13753—55 Shri Narayanankutty M e n o n ...... 13755-56 Shri Sinhasan S i n g h ...... 13759—61 Shri Balasaheb Patil ...... 13761 Shri C. K. N a i r ...... 13762 Shrimati Ila P a l c h o u d h u r i ...... 13762-63 Clauses 2 to 13 and 1 ...... 13769-70 M otion to p a s s ...... 13770—73 Shri B. R. B h ag at ...... 13770 Shri Braj Raj S i n g h ...... 13770—73 ♦The sign + marked above a name indicates that the Question was actually •sked on the floor of the House by that Member. [Continued on the third cover page] CONTENTS—contd.

Columns

Motion re: Reports of the Indian Airlines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation...... 13773— i 3®21 Shri Rajendra S i n g h ...... 13773— 83, 13820-21 Shri Joachim A lv a ...... 13783— 9 t Shrimati Renu Chakravartty ...... x 379-2— 99 Shri Mohiuddin ...... 13799— 13802 Shri Harish Chandra Mathur ...... 13802— 07 Shri S. K . P a t i l ...... 13807— 20 Half-an-hour Discussion re : Government Advertisements . . 13821—42 Shri Bhakt Darshan ...... 13821— 27 • Shri K h a d i l k a r ...... 7 3 8 2 7 — 2 9 Shri Braj Raj S in g h ...... 13829-30 Dr. Keskar ...... 13831— A2 Daily D i g e s t ...... 13843— 52 LOK SABHA DEBATES

553 13554 LOK SABHA or unfilled and there is reduced ex­ penditure on purchase of stores, Wednesday, 7th May, 1958 equipment etc. May I know whether these economies have not affected the efficient working of these Ministries Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the and whether the economy drive is Clock keeping this also in view? [M r. S pea k er in the Chair], The Prime Minister and Minister of External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): That is a difficult question to answer. Some economy drives cer­ ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS tainly had affected the working of Economy the Ministries—some work has been postponed or delayed. It is always a 4- Shri D. C. Sharma: matter of balancing whether we Shri Bhakt Darshan: should carry out or postpone a work, keeping in view all the circumstances. *2036. Shri N. R. Munisamy: Shri Daman]: Shri Bimal Ghose: When the Plan Shri Raghunath Singh: was first formulated, a certain in­ Shri S. C. Samanta: crease in administrative expenditure Will the Prime Minister be pleased was allowed for in the Plan. I should to refer to the reply given to Starred like to know whether that estimate Oi’estion No. 1081 on the 13th Decem- has been exceeded and, if so, by how % 1957 and state: much.

ia) the actual savings effected in Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I could tl, .• expenditure of each Ministry not answer that enquiry. If the hon. durir^g the financial year 1957-58 as Member puts a specific question, I a resiilt of the efforts that were being will enquire. made under the economy drive; (b) the measures being adopted for Shri Tyagi: Are the Government this purpose in the current financial aware that the wages and salaries bill year i.e. 1958-59; and of the Government of India, both ori (c) the amount expected to be current and capital account has in­ saved as a result of these efforts? creased from Rs. 416.23 crores in 1956-57 to Rs. 518.2 crores during the The Parliamentary Secretary to the year 1958-59, a difference of Rs. 91.97 Minister of External Affairs (Shri crores within a year? Sadath Ali Khan): (a) to (c). A statement is placed on the table of Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: If the the Lok Sabha. [See Appendix VIII, figures are in the Budget, they must annexure No. 138.] be correct. I have not got all the figures with me. It is a fact that the Shri D. p. Sharma: I find from the expenditure has increased. You will statement that some projects have remember that the interim recom­ been partly or wholly postponed or mendation or award of the Pay Com­ Ibandoned or reduced in scope, posts mission has added a large amount to have been abolished, kept in abeyance that bill. Oral Answers 7 MAY 1958 Oral Answers 13550

Shri D. C. Sharma: From the state­ the Ministries will be pleased ment I find that a saving of supply the information asked for. Rs. 32,80,140 has been effected, so far as the Indian Missions abroad are Dir. Speaker: It is better than go­ concerned. May I know whether to ing into details on the floor of the effect this saving in expenditure some House. Missions have been closed or down­ graded? Sbrl Jawaharlal Nehru: No Mission has been closed. But, probably, snRr ftcrr | far ?€. * s - u m e some posts in some Missions may be 3 f t jfjuflr wrt f r *r f | lying vacant. I believe—I cannot say 1 definitely—some allowances of re­ sim r !m^rr f % wr *tf «rarwT presentatives have been reduced. *ft wm % w r May be, some buildings which have to be put up have not been put up. fP t f t tf tr fofliMWcTT tit 3TT That means considerable saving for w £ the time being at least. ^ TTT ^ ? Shri Tangamanl: We find from the statement that more than Rs. 2 crores * 5* : 3ft $T, have been saved by way of reducing the expenditure on the purchase of f*THT ?ftO ^ ITJTo fVaffSR ■tores. May I know whether this is ^rt smr fam r 1 1 s n r m ^ % due to the reduction in the price of 3r>f¥?R

Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I am not In a position to answer that question. sflT *5 f 5 =FT | I ^ *FT qffTT This is a big statement relating to ^Trfrsrr *jqfavr | arrc ^ several Ministries. If a specific ques­ *ftr HcfrjTT f t I tion is asked to that Ministry, they will answer it. Shri N. R. Munlsamy : From the Export of Monkeys statement I find that the total sav­ + ings come to about Rs. 24 crores up fS h ri B. K. Gaik wad: to November. At that rate, we are • 2 0 3 7 J Shri D' A Kattl: saving about Rs. 7 crores per month. 4037 ^ Shri A. S. Sal gal: May I know whether we are saving (Shri A|lt Sinflt SarhadL- the same amount subsequent to Will the Minister of Commerce and November, 1957 also? Industry be pleased to state: Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Not at all, (a) the number of exporters who because if we give up a project, it It given up. It is not given up every have been given licences for the month. export of monkeys to foreign coun­ tries; M». Speaker: When such detailed information is asked for, if a state­ (b) whether it is a fact that the ment is supplied, hon. Members will export licence of M/s. Vita Private thereafter go through it and put Ltd., an Indian firm, has been sus­ individual questions to the Ministries pended for alleged cruelty to animals; concerned. (c) whether it is also a fact that Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: If I may M/s. T.E. Patterson Ltd. a foreign •ay so, if separate questions sre put, firm, was fined Rs. 200 and Rs. 400 43f $ 7 "Oral Amwtra . 9 m s r 1m Oral A nartrt 13558

lor violating Foreign Exchange Regu­ Shri Prank Anthony: With regard lations and exporting pregnant to part (b) of the question, is it a monkeys against Export Regulations fact that Government has destroyed in F eb ru ary 1957; and the business of Messrs. Patterson Ltd-, the largest exporters of monkeys, by (d) it so, the reasons lor continu­ assuming culpability in spite of th* ing the export licence of M/s. T.E. matter being sub judice? Patterson Ltd.? The Minister of Commerce (Shri Shri Kanungo: Yes, Sir. The ex­ Kanungo): (a) Four. port permit was cancelled, because there is a case in the criminal court. (b) Yes, Sir. As soon as the court comes to a de­ cision, we will consider the matter. (c) No, Sir. But a member of the ■Bom was assessed to penalty of Rs. 200 under the Sea Customs Act. Sardar Hukam Singh: May I know whether the Government has con­ (d) Does not arise. sidered during the last three months Shri B. K. Gaik wad: May I know the question of allowing Messrs. whether it is a fact that there is a Patterson Ltd., to continue the export condition that no pregnant monkeys of monkeys till they are found guilty should be allowed to be exported and so that Government may not lose Rs. 6 even then Messrs. T.E. Patterson Ltd. lakhs to 8 lakhs of foreign exchange has exported monkeys on 25th May, every year? 1957? If so, may I know what action has been taken against them? Shri Kanungo: We have permitted the firm to honour the commitnMUto Shri Kanungo: Yes, there is pro­ which were made earlier. No nejv hibition on export of pregnant licence has been issued to them. monkeys. But the penalty imposed on Messrs. T.E. Patterson Ltd. was for exceeding the number, as shown in Sardar Hukam Singh: May I know the invoice, by 25. whether Government has considered Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member the feasibility of allowing them to wants to know whether, contrary to continue the exports till they are the condition, p.egnant monkeys were found guilty? exported. Shri Kanungo: I have no informat­ The Minister of Commerce and In­ ion about that. But the penalty was dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastfd): imposed for exceeding the number They have been found guilty accord­ shown in the invoice. ing to our information. They have been found guilty under the Sea Shri A. S. Saigal: Is it a fact that Customs Act. It is quite obviouy that Mr. Patterson was the sole proprietor they were sending more number of of th e firm before 1st M arch 1958? monkeys than was prescribed under the rules. So they have broken the Shri Kanungo: It is a private rules and we have taken action. The limited company anyway. hon. Member says that we should have mercy on them. I think it is S hri S. Saigal: May I know A. not a question on which we can show whether it is a fact that on account pity to them. When the case has of various irregularities he has chang­ been finally decided by the court, we ed the name of his firm into India will consider as to what further steps Private Limited to cheat the Gov­ should be taken. ernm ent? Shri Kanungo: We are aware of Shri B. K. Gaik wad: May I knovr only one irregularity. w h e th e r...... '3559 Oral A m w ers 7 MAY 1958 Oral Answers

th at a criminal case has been. lou*cu. Mr. Speaker: 1 will not allow that. Let us understand what exactly is There is no reason why Government our position. So far as executive should wait till the end of the cri­ action for grant of licences is con­ minal case. Government takes action cerned, they do not come before us when it satisfies itself in the matter for granting a licence. It is improper of an issue of a licence, which is im­ for ah hon. Member to suggest that proper, to punish them. It is a matter export licence should be granted to of granting export licences to them. XYZ. They take a decision on their Government satisfied itself and they own. As soon as they discover that a took action. We are going to the particular person has misbehaved and court, but that is an additional thing they do not take action on it, then we which is happening. It is not relevant will take the Government to task. to this at the present stage. For that they are liable to answer Shri Frank Anthony: The charge the House. But, under the circum­ is that of cruelty. stances, even irrespective of what the question is as to whether he is con­ Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member, victed or not, if we allow questions who is a lawyer, knows very well on the floor of the House, we are that any authority, who appoints, has interfering with the discretion of the got the right to dismiss and the Government to find out whether an authority which issues a licence has, irregularity has been committed or the right to cancel it. Now, are we not. In that case every businessman to go into the validity of this can­ will come with such things. If his cellation? In addition to that action licence is cancelled or if a licence is they are prosecuting also. I am not not given to him, it will be question­ able to understand how such ques­ ed. We are thus encroaching upon tions can be asked on the floor of the the executive’s right so far as this House. It is impossible for the Gov­ matter is concerned. The executive ernment to carry on in this way. must have the right. If, however, a number of such cases occur, the House may suggest the appointment of a Bengal Paper M ills Co., Ltd. tribunal to examine all these cases and not come again and again with /ShriV C Majhl: respect to other matters. There are \ Shri S. C. Sam anta, millions of persons to whom licences have been granted. So far as ad­ Will the Minister of Commerce and ministrative functions are concerned, Industry be pleased to state: in all other countries they allow a (a) whether an investigation was kind of appeal or a tribunal. But ordered by Government on the 10th this is not the course which ought to November, 1956, to go into the large be taken. scale cornering of shares of the Bengal Paper Mills Co. Ltd.; Shri Frank Anthony: That is not quite correct. The question that we (b) if so, when the report of the are asking is that Government has investigation was submitted to Gov­ encroached on the function of the ernm ent; courts, This matter is before the court. Who are Government to pre­ (c) whether any action was taken judge as to what the court’s decision on the recommendations of the report; will be? and (d) if not, what are the reasons for The Prime Minister and Minister of the delay? External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlai Nehru); Action was taken by Gov­ The Deputy Minister of Commerce ernment after its own enquiry and and Industry (Shri Satish Chandra): after satisfying itself. In addition to (a) Yes. I3561 Oral Answers 7 MAY 1958 Oral Answer* 13562

(b) 80th August, 1957. the number thereof imported at pre­ sent; (c) and (d). Investigations under (c) whether any training centres Section 247 of the Companies Act, are proposed to be set up for watches 1956 are fact-finding enquiries. No and clocks; and recommendations by the Inspectors were expected or made. Action re­ (d) if so, where these are to be garding possible contravention of located? Section 49 of the Act by a company The Minister ot Industry (Shri mentioned in the report is being pu; Manobhai Shah): (a) No, Sir. sued. It has not been possible to publish the report as certain matters (: > Nearly 22 lakhs numbers of contained therein may be sub judice in watcnes and clocks were imported an appeal pending before the Calcutta during 1956 of the total value of High Court. Rs. 3.86 crores. This num ber could be taken to be the approximate de­ Shri R. C. Majhi: May I know the mand of the country for watches and total amount involved in corning clocks. Since July 1957, there is a all shares of the Bengal Paper mills? total ban on import of watches, clocks and timepieces. Shri Satish Chandra: I do not know the amount but I can give the num­ (c) and (d). The question of setting ber of shares. According to the in­ up a few training centres is under vestigations that have been made, examination. about 81,500 shares of this Mill have beei\ purchased by Messrs Dhanuka, Shri N. R. Munisamy: What is the Mehta and Seth and have been re­ amount given as a loan to some of the gistered by the company. Another factories and what are the terms under which loans are granted? Have 10,000 shares approximately have been purchased by them and are held in they been returned? blank transfer. Shri Manubhai Shah: As far as the Central Government is concerned, no Shri Subodh Hansda: What are the direct loans have been granted to terms of reference for investigation? anybody but some loans under the State Industries Act have been given Shri Satish Chandra: The terms for by State Governments to small units. investigation were to find out the real ownership of these shares. It has Shri N. R. Muniswamy : Have any been established that these shares officers been sent to foreign countries belonged to the Bangar group. for receiving training? Shri Manubhai Shah No experts Manufacture of Watches and Clocks have been sent, but we have got two experts here who are advising us + fS h ri N. R. Munisamy: and who are being allotted to differ­ *2039. J Shrimati Manjula Devi: ent factories for giving them guidance j^Shrl Damanl: on how to manufacture the different components. Will the Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: Shri Damani: What is the present capacity for manufacturing clocks and (a) whether it is a fact that Gov­ watches of our country and what are ernment propose to bring the manu­ the facilities that are being given to facture of watches and clocks under increase the capacity? the Public Sector; Shri Mar.ubhai Shah: T here are (b) what is the total requirements about five medium-sized clock manu­ of India for watches and clocks and facturing factories with a capacity of Oral Anttvers ? MAY 1958 Oral Antuws

40>00G clocks per year and 14 to 15 manufacture watches, I wanted to small-scale units to make the com­ know as to how long will it take for ponents. The facilities given to them the Government of India to be able are the technical experts of the De­ to be self-sufficient in the production velopment Wing and the two foreign of indigenous watches. experts are placed at their disposal. Shri Ranga: May I know regarding Shri Manubhai Shah: This is m e part (c) of the question as to how of the most difficult lines, being a many training centres we are running high precision thing. A t a recent con­ and w here? ference, where we called all the present small and big manufacturers Shri Manubhai Shah: Two training of components and other parts, it centres are proposed to be run—one was felt that no country can set up a at Bombay and the other at Indore. completely indigenous watch factory in less than five years. Shri S. M. Banerjee: May I know whether it is a fact that the cost of imported watches has gone up very Shri Tyagi: Nor can any country high as & result of restriction of im­ stop the import of watches? ports and if so, what is the remedy? Shri Manubhai Shah: One has to Shri Manubhai Shah: This ha 3 been tighten the belt. a general question for such items. We have banned the import of about 186 items. It is quite possible that Code for Discipline in Industry where the imports are not now avail­ able the prices of a few commodities *2041. Shri Tangam ani: W ill the might have gone up, but care is con­ Minister of Labour and Employment stantly being taken to see that indi­ be pleased to state whether the Code genous manufacturers take up their for Discipline in Industry adopted at manufacture. the 15th Indian Labour Conference has been ratified by the Employers and As far as watches are concerned Workers Organisations? we have not yet been able to make a beginning, but I assure the House The Deputy Minister of Labour that soon one wrist watch factory, (Shri Abid A11): The Code was ra ti­ perhaps in the public sector, will fied in the meeting of a Sub-Com­ be installed by the Government and mittee of Indian Labour Conference four or five such factories in the on 14th and 15th March, 1958. How­ private sector will be encouraged. ever, subsequent to that meeting the Shri Daaappa: Since there is no All India Trade Union Congress and -capacity whatsoever in the country the Hind Mazdoor Sabha have sent to manufacture watches, have the in representations seeking clarificat­ Government any idea of allowing ion on certain points. These are some import of watches? under consideration. Shri Manubhai Shah: Not at pre­ Shri Tangamani: May 1 know the sent because the situation of foreign names of the employers’ organisations, exchange is very difficult who have ratified the Code of Dis­ cipline which was originally formulat­ Shri Tyagi rose— ed in the 15th Indian Labour Con­ Mr. Speaker: I am pr eeding to ference and subsequently okayed by fc the next question. The hon. Member the Sub-Committee? must have risen earlier. However, he may ask one question. Shri Abid All: The organisations <■' which participated in the Labour Con- f JShri Tyafi: As this is a very im­ ference representing the employers I portant matter that India is going to have ratified this Code.

S ttH' Tanganwml: What I want to Shri Nanda: We have issued from know is, after this Code was for­ the Centra] Government instructions mulated and sent to the various em­ or request to the State Governments ployer*’ organisation, how many em­ to set up such apparatuses in their ployers' organisations have ratified it. own areas. So far as the Centre is concerned, we have already taken up Shri Abid Ali: Their central or­ the thing in hand. ganisations have ratified it We are not asking their units to send us Shri Tangamani: May I know whe­ their confirmation. ther this aspect also will be discussed In the ensuing Indian Labour Con­ Shri S. M. Banerjee: In view of the ference, the Sixteenth Labour Con­ new Code of Discipline, will the ference which is scheduled to take present standing orders be modified place at Nainital on the 19th and and revised? 20th? Shri Abid Ali: For modification of Shri Nanda: Very much so. standing orders, the party concerned has to apply to the labour court Export of Iron Ore to Japan according to the amended Industrial Disputes Act. *2043. Shri Panigrahi: W ill the Minister of Commerce and Industry Shri T an gam an i: May I know be pleased to state: whether the two Central trade union organisations, the All India Trade (a) the different schemes which Union Congress and Hind Mazdoor were discussed by the Japanese team Sabha at their last conference sug­ with the Government of India for gested that for the ratification of this facilitating export of Iron ore from Code, recognition of the various unions India to Japan; must be made a condition precedent? (b) whether any scheme was sub­ The Minister of Labour and Em­ mitted by the Orissa Government for ployment and Planning (Shri Nan da): facilitating exports of Iron ore to This code was adopted at the con­ Japan; ference. Afterwards, we requested (c) whether it has been considered; the organisations concerned to send and us their written acceptance. We received some intimation from some (d) if so, with w hat result? of the organisations. Later on, we The Minister o t Commerce (Shrt had a meeting of the committee on Kanungo): (a) Discussions took place which all of them were represented. with the Japanese team with regard All their objections were gone into. to the development of three alter­ They were all satisfied. The decision native projects, viz., Rourkela-Vizag, then was what all the parties will Sukinda-Pradip and BaladiJa-Vizag. agree to it and ratify it. Subsequent­ ly, from one or two quarters, we (b) Yes, Sir. received requests for clarification of (c) and (d). The scheme was con­ these decisions. So that, the rati­ sidered but no decision has been re­ fication is there. To the point re­ ached so far. Further negotiations garding recognition, the answer was with the Japanese will take place given. The. clarification which is re­ shortly. quested will also be provided. Shri Paoigrahi: May I know Shri Narayanankutty Menon: What whether the Government of Orissa steps has the Government taken to submitted any proposal to the Union set up an implementation machinery Government for providing facilities to see that the terms of the code of for the expert of 250,000 tons of iron discipline are implemented both by ore from Sukinda via Paradip to the employers and trade unions? Japan? 13567 O ral Answers 7 MAY 1958 Oral Answers

S h ri Kanango: The Orissa Govern­ f \ m * s * ment have been discussing it off and ff o r *rft m irrrftT tit mm v t on. They are on their own account developing a minor port at Paradip. sft *t £ | i ssr qr farwrr *ft t $ t $ Shri Panlgrahi: May I know Xft* % iJflTTfaw SPT*T f>TT » whether there was any proposal which was discussed by the Japanese fls mw : Just ?T4> ^rr- team for providing railway facilities aPr^TT ifrzm w w and communications in the Orissa mining areas, in Sukinda area, for *t ft aft # fu?r fV qr famr farm export of this iron ore? art Tsrr t i $ w n ?r far Shri Kanungo: As I said, this parti­ ^jrsrsr «r ^ttth >f> srRr-ffer cular project, that is, Sukinda Paradip ^rt ^rr x$ % m 5 * r * w * r n %f#tq snc- has got to be discussed. It has not | w # ?>ff been discussed except in a preli­ ^ minary way. Tffr m >r*r strt ^ T ^ t t eft, Shri Barman: While considering the *TRp*T 3 Sfftf f^irq- H5fr 3TT^m l different schemes by the Japanese team, may I know whether they have eft WHW t : ft i Shri Kanungo: No, Sir. In the last Shrimati Ila Palchoudhuri: May I discussion with the Japanese, we know what percentage of the ore will have agreed that we will take be carried by Indian ships? Rourkela-Vizag project as priority. Shri Kanungo: Wc are keen on : * m its arrar ?r*ft £ shipment on schedule. Whatever ships ft? STT'TR *ft sfY m f «fr, 3 are available on schedule will be used. «TT far *^T V ?*TFT •ft sM q?«n: | *ftr !ft *fl viw ft : ^ T f T *TT*’ f t ) 'r : *T? 3far | far # T F I r m j t | «ft far ^ | *TT>m *TT : «Fm ^ € ? t | far fc-%far;r * r m r h snrnsr ^r v t t % gT«r HPT# cfr-^T ^— Vtp ??r st ^t r ^rr farm f ^ T % trip *r*S>*

Shri M. E. Krishna: May I know ftp ^*T WTTT^W % K w n when this scheme of export of more ^ R T ^ *?t V T fw t ore from the ports of Vizag-Rourkeli be taken up? Shri V. C. Shakla; According to the present arrangements, iron ore from Shri Kanungo: We hope that when Taldih deposits will be esqjorted via negotiations are complete and facili­ Visakhapatnam port involving heavy ties are increased, in about two years, traffic over already over-strained maximum exports can be done. Rourkela-Jharsuguda section of the Shri Panigrahi: In the next three South Eastern Railways which is years of the Second Plan, what is serving the transportation*,needs of the amount of iron ore proposed to three huge constructions of steel be exported from the Sukinda mines plants. and also from the Rourkela area an­ nually to Japan? M r.■ Speaker; Hon. Members ought not to read questions. Shri Kanungo: It all depends. We are targeting for availability of trans­ S hri V. C. Shukla: May I know port and port facilities and also min­ if the Government realise that a ing facilities which are not yst serious bottle-neck is bound to arise adequate. in this section, blocking ore delive­ ries? Shrimati Ila Palchoudhuri: May I know whether it is a fact that ships Shri Kanungo: No, Sir. Care is cannot approach Paradip port and that being taken to increase the handling ore is first put into bunkers and then capacity at the port and also for in­ taken to the ships? creasing the line capacity of the Rail­ ways. Shri Kanungo: Yes. It is an off­ shore loading minor port which is Shri Dasappa: May I know whether not equipped yet. the ore of Bellary, especially of San- dur, and the ore of Kemmangundi is Fixation of Minimum Wage not also being exported? Shri Kanungo: Yes, Sir. It is being + exported from the west coast ports. p Shri Narayanankutty *2044. ^ Menon: Shri Damani: May I know what Shri Warior: arrangements have been made for Will the Minister of Labour and speedy shipment of iron ore to Japan Employment be pleased to state: in order to avoid accumulation at ports? (a) whether Government propose to review the notification fixing mini­ Shri Kanango: At present, there is mum wages for the workers employed not much accumulation at the porta in the construction works under the simply because transport capacity is Central Government; and used and shipment is not detained beyond necessity. (b) if so, the steps taken for the same? Shri Assar: May I know if the Gov­ ernment are aware that millions of The Deputy Minister of . Labour tons of low grade- iron ore are in (Shri Abid Ali): (a) Yes. stock and whether there was any (b) The Revision Committee has talk with the' Japanese team to sell made certain recommendations in this any low grade ore? behalf which are being examined. Sfcri Kanango: Some contracts are Shri Tangamani: Has the Revision packet contracts which include high Committee been asked to consider grade as well as low grade ore. the norms which have been fixed for 13571 O ra! A nsw ers 1 MAY 1058 Oral Answers *3572 fixing minimum wages in the 15th (b) The full report on this con­ Indian Labour Conference? ference is not yet available. How­ ever, the conference failed in its Shri Abid Ali: The latter part of main objective to draw up a conven­ the question I did not hear. tion on the Law of the Sea mainly because it could not arrive at the Shri Tangamani: The method by necessary agreement on the breadth which the minimum wages have to of territorial waters. It was, there­ be adopted has been discussed and fore, recommended that the United finalised at the 15th Indian Labour Nations General Assembly should con­ Conference. May I know whether sider what the next step should be. those recommendations had been There was agreement on various other communicated to the revision com­ aspects of the Laws of the Sea such mittee when they were actually sitt­ as the Continental Shelf and the ing for the purpose of revising the exploitation of its natural resources, minimum wages for construction conservation of fisheries, right of in­ w orkers? nocent passage of ships.

Shri Abid Ali: Yes, they will take The Conference adopted a resolut­ these recommendations into con­ ion for encouraging cooperation on sideration. conservation and on the human kill­ ing of marine life. Shri Tyagi: Have the Government Another resolution, moved by India, considered or examined the rational was also adopted recommending that method of fixing work-dav units and the question of banning and testing paying higher rates of wage*; for of nuclear weapons on the high seas work done over and above the daily should be considered by the General norms for each worker? Assembly. Shri Abid Ali: Wherever the piece Shri Kumaran: May I know whether rate system is prevalent, this is taken the conference was in any way helpful into consideration. in resolving the differences existing between India and her neighbours re­ The Minister of Labour and Em­ garding territonal waters and deep ployment and Planning- (Shri Nanda): sea fishing rights? In addition to pii'ce rate, there are incentive systems of payment which The Prime Minister and Minister of take that into account. External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): Between India and what Conference on the Law uf Seas country? Shri Kumaran: Between India and J Shri Kumaran: her neighbour, especially Ceylon. \ Shri N. R. M unisam y. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: May I sug­ Will the Prime Mnister be plea.ved gest that my colleague. the Law to state: Minister, who was the leader of the (a) whether the Government of delegation, might answer that ques­ India participated in the Conference tion? on the Law of Seas held in March, The Minister of Law (Shri A. K. 1958; and Sen): I am very happy to say that the Ceylonese delegation and the (bl vhat were the decisions and Indian delegation worked in com­ recomrsendations of the Conference? plete harmony, and no disputes were ever raised by either party. The Fp-liamentary Secretary to the Minister \ of External Affairs (Shri Shri Kumaran: May I know whe­ 9ndafh AH Khan): (a) Yes, Sir. ther it is a fact that the representative Ora l Answers 7 MAY 1958 Oral Answers 13574 of Pakistan railed the issue of a cor­ to say that the resolution which was ridor across Indian territory con­ ultimately accepted with hardly any necting the two wings of Pakistan and opposition was a Swiss resolution that he was able to canvass support accepting our point of view. The among some powers represented at resolution completely met our stand the conference? in the matter.

Mr. Speaker: Is it a conference on Shri Kumaran: May I know whe­ land dispute or sea dispute? ther the question of pollution of sea Shri Kumaran: But it was raised. waters by nuclear test explosions was raised at the conference and any de­ Mr. Speaker: Let it be raised. I cision taken thereon? am not going to allow. How does it arise out of this question? Hon. Shri A. K. Sen: It was raised and Members must address themselves to India did sponsor a resolution pro­ the question here. A thousand things hibiting the pollution of seas either may occur: it will not be allowed by radio-active lays or otherwise. here. As far as the idea was concerned, Shri Bimal Ghose: In the conference we got a good deal of support in the •n the law of the seas, something else matter, but the resolution was lost was done. It is about the conference, in the Committee only by one vote. not about anything else*. I speak subject to correction because the final report has not come yet, Shri Kumaran: This issue was but my recollection is that it was raised in the conference. lost, by one vote. Nevertheless, after Mr. Speaker: The question is whe­ this resolution was lo;,t, an am ended ther the Government of India parti­ resolution was accepted which to a cipated in the Conference on the Law very large extent met the point of Seas held m March, 1958. This of view of India a* also other coun­ is a conference on the law of the tries shaimg the view that the high seas, how far the territorial waters seas should not be polluted by radio­ will extend, six miles, 100 miles or active rays. 200 miles Then, how does the cor­ ridor come in? I am not going to Pakistan's letter to T N. on Kashmir allow. That was irrelevant in this r conference. I was not the President <2 «4 « / Shri Bho« i BI,ai: of that conference, I could not com­ Shri Rameshwar Tantia: mand the deletion of all thai. If I were there, I would have expunged Will the Prime Minister be pleased all that. (Laughter). to refer to the reply given to Short Notice Question No. 32 on the 7th Shri N. R. Munisamy: May I know April. 1958 and state whether Gov­ whether the question of free entry ernment have since received the into the sea by land-locked countries authorised text of the letter written was taken into consideration, and if by the Pakistan Representative at so with what result? U.N.O. legarding certain administra­ Shri A. K. Sen: There was a reso­ tive measures taken by India in lution passed by the Fifth Committee Kashmir? on land-locked countries and their rights of access to the sea as also The Parliamentary Secretary to the the right of transit of goods over the Minister of External Affairs (Shri territories of their neighbours. The Sadath Ali Khan): Yes, Sir. A* point of view of India was very ably authorised copy of the letter in ques­ expressed by our representative in tion has been received in circulation the Fifth Committee, and I myself and copies of letters to the Security took part in one or two meetings to Council are placed on the table of the let the Committee know our point Lok Sabha. [See Appendix VIII, an- of view in the matter. I am happy nexure No. 139.] O ral A ryw tr* *35 75 Oral Answers 1 MAT lMd

*ft vfo rtb m : ift ’nfr. *1 ftRT «TT f>T HTP h H TT TT JfT«TT | «ftT 5T5T «R aft VTtHTMTT Ppm T^T fW T £ I | SRT ^ 7 % $ f i n f r gTTTT * Shri Joachim Alva: In paragraph S wto soft s f t * *tf fasit of the letter written by our delegate, it is stated: “The Government of ft n f t I ? India have not violated any Security Council Resolution that they have srarw «nft w t jifciw VT$-*HfT accepted, nor have they repudiated (•ft vrnrr wwr ^ j) : A s t o t *r$t f a any of their international engage­ u m « w «rcitopft h t * : v m t x ^ ^ r *t Tamw ^ «rjf v w f t * ftFT 'TC f a TlfatffFT sfIT ^53TT qTT^rr ft *rrr nTTi s m aft ^ WfjT TT jf| *k^Nl<. fa^ ^ T^T *rrf?w *r?f A ^ r f s n r 5t?n t «rf tf» £ W T Wrt *T F ’TTfT H T fT T s* rrqr<, ?r>0 3Ucn t TTf^^rpT if' q?ro pt ^ fa s s t fa *ft % ? ^rrar # si^i t 7 #tm «ft ^tnjTWm ^ : sf*H ^ft t, 3*rort ^r^Ttrspr ^ j h i ^ t *pt S’ m ^ «rr totp' ^t jttt; A ^xrr arnfan^T $ i ■dflH ^T«T ^t^t i $ tft fa TTf^TdlTt «rar?TT *f\x #fTFnrT Industrial Enterprises 5nmTR w u s f a s i $7 sfrr + ^ ft v m %5rf?T%«rr m snrrr «ft: *2047 / Shri V. C. Shukla: \ Shri Ramesbwar Tantla: T$. % ^ t T w f t *Ffft TT #? *fT7 Will the Minister of Commerce axi 5*F^ ’ ft t • w ^TTTcr JTT^TTT H Industry be pleased to state: ^ 3 \° ^7° *fto *TT Tlfa^TM1 (a) whether the attention of th* % pt'vSm r% vT^fwTTft¥t| ? - Government of In d ia has been drawn Ora l A n na ert 7 MAY 1956 Oral Answer * I3J7$ lo tfc* reported statement of th e machinery, and out of that what japanM * Ambassador in India to the quantity will be produced in this effect that the Japanese manufacturers country, and what action is being of heavy machinery would be inter­ taken to meet the entire demand of ested in co-operating w ith Indian the country? entrepreneurs to set up industrial Shri Manubhai Shah: The present enterprises in India by providing capi­ estimate is that about Rs. 125 crorei tal or by giving deffered payment worth of machinery is required to facilities; be imported in the country. At the (b) if so, whether Government have end of the Second Plan, the estimate received any concrete proposals from is likely to go up to Rs. 200 to the Japanese Government in this Rs. 250 crores. The present pro­ regard; and duction is Rs. 35 crores per annum and we are making efforts to see (c) the progress made in the mat­ that by 19(50-61, we shall manufacture ter? about Rs. 100 crores of machinery in The Minister of Industry (Shri this country. Manubhai Shah): (a) Yes, Sir Shri Kasliwal: May I know whe­ (b) Not so far, Sir. ther this Japanese participation would be for setting up industries to pro­ (c) Does not arise. duce consumer goods or capital ?oods? Shri lUmeshwar Tantia: May I know whether any proposals have Shri Manubhai Shah: This parti­ been submitted to Government by cular question which has been refer­ the private sector for setting up some red to in the statement of the industrial enterprises with the col­ Japanese Ambassador in India is laboration of the Japanese? regarding the setting up of heavy machinery manufacturing capacity Shri Manubhai Shah: A.s far as with Japanese collabortaion, not the this particular question is concerned, consumer goods. it relates to heavy machinery, and no such proposal has so far been Shri V. C. Shukla: It has been found submitted. But there are many other that for collaboration, the foreign industries where proposals have come industrialists insist upon more than for Japanese collaboration. 7J per cent, income-tax-free dividend on preference shares. Will Govern­ Shri V. C. Shukla: Do Government ment consider this possibility of intend to give any facilities to allowing them more dividend on pre­ make this proposition successful and ference shares? if so, the nature of such facilities? Shri Mnubhal Shah: No such agree­ Shri Manubhai Shah: The facilities ments have come to our notice, nor would be that if the scheme of pay­ does anybody insist on a particular ment of foreign exchange for the dividend. The real technical collabor­ import of capital goods and also all ation basis is either the royalty or the the requirements of raw materials are research fee or the engineering fee submitted to Government, and if for a particular value or type of after consideration, we find that thev technical collaboration. fall in line with our policy not to add any substantial burden to the existing Coke Oven Plant in Durgapore situation, then the same can be con­ *2048. Shri Bimal Ghose: W ill the sidered. Minister of Planning be pleased to state: Shri Daman!: May I know whe­ ther Government have surveyed the (a) whether the West Bengal Gov­ requirement* of the country for heavy ernment have made any proposal for 13^79 dm} Aiteuwr* t -A nne** tte* doubling of tbe capacity a t the M i f t t t t t 4 f » Q m Coke-Oven Plant in Oorgapore; and (b) if so, whether sanction has been Shri Astar: Will the M »« accorded to the proposal? Minister be pleased to state: The Deputy Minister of Planning (a) whether it is a fa c t that many <«hri S. N. Mishra): (a) Yes, Sir. families from Goa who have migrated (b) No. It was considered that to Indian territory are residing in the the best manner in which additional District of Ratnagiri and Karwtr; Capacity for hard coke should be (b) if so, th eir num ber; created must be gone into by a Committee. Accordingly a Committee (c) whether it is a fact th a t many is being appointed for this purpose by families have not received any help the Ministry of Steel, Mines and Fuel. from the Central Government and are Shri Bimal Ghose: Is it a fact that in critical position; and this Question was examined and it (d) if so, the action Government was found that unless the plant was propose to take in the matter? doubled, it would not be economical? Shri S. N. Mishra: That is the point The Parliamentary Secretary to the made by the West Bengal Government Minister of External Affairs (Shri that the cost of production can be Sadath Ali Khan): (a) and (b).There reduced by 30 per cent, by doubling are three displaced families from Goa the plant. But all these things will residing in Ratnagiri and ten displac­ have to be gone into by the committee ed persons in Karwar. although this would not be a dircct (c) and (d). Government have point of reference, so far as 1 can see. received applications for financial as­ Shri Bimal Ghose: Do I understand sistance from two displaced persons that if the committee comes to a deci­ residing in the District of Ratnagiri sion that that is so the question of and another from a person now living foreign exchange will not bo put for­ in Hyderabad. These are under ward as a plea not to sanction this? consideration. Shri S. N. Mishra: In fact, the West Bengal Government themselves Shri P. R. Patel: May I know the thought that the question of foreign dates of the applications received, exchange would not prove to be very and the action taken up till now? difficult because by deferred payment the whole thing could be spread over Mr. Speaker: Dates? There may a number of years. be a number of applications.

Shri Bimal Ghose: Do I understand Shri P. R. Patel: May I know when that this question was not examined the applications were received, two at all as to whether it will be econo­ months before or four months before mic or uneconomic on the present or six months before? capacity? Mr. Speaker: I would have myself The Minister of L abour and advised notice. How can the Minis­ Employment and Planning (Shri ter remember the dates of all these Nanda): There was further difference applications? of opinion regarding the need for the Additional production in the present An Hon. Member: There were only conditions of demand. That matter two applications. has to be gone into first, as to where, if there is any addition, it is going to The Prime Minister and Minister o f be consumed. Therefore, the location External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal of any increased capacity also is a N ehru): May I say a word? Possibly, flatter for consideration. the suggestion is that an application was received before the previous ans­ of radio-active waste? The state­ wer "WfS given, and, therefore, that ment made by the Prime Minister in answer was not a correct one—possi­ that this problem does not baffle us bly; I do not know. If that is the at all. May I know what the correct inference or allegation, may I assure position is? While speaking on the the House that that application was Demands for Grants, he stated that not received before, but it was receiv­ we had no problem whatsoever, and ed afterwards, that is, after the that the discharge in the ocean was answ er? absolutely safe, and there was less of radio-activity in it than in the ordi­ Radio-active Waste nary water. May I know what the » u correct position is, and how the two fShri Harish Chandra Mathur: things reconcile? •*««.<{ Shri Vajpayee: Shri U. L. P atil: Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: My answer previously related to what we were Will the Prime Minister be pleased doing at Trombay, and we gave the to state: assurance that that involved no danger to anj'bodv at all. I was not (a) whether the question of dump­ making that statement in regard to ing radio-active waste m the sea has everything that was happening in the been considered by the International wide world, as to how other coun­ Atomic Energy Agency; tries were disposing of it. Obviously, (b) if so, what are the conclusions I neither know fully, nor can I give arrived at; and an assurance. Cc) what contribution has been The hon. Member referred to the made by India towards the solution U.S S.R. protesting against something. of this problem? I can say nothing about it, as I do not know all the facts. The Rrfane Minister and Minister of External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Dr. Sushila Nayar: May 1 know Nehru): (a) and (b). The method of whether the Prime Minister will be dumping radioactive wastes in the pleased to see to it that our students sea is only one way of disposing of taking training in atomic energy in such wastes and is a part of the wider different parts of the world are given issue of waste disposal in genera). full details as to how we are dealing The subject of waste disposal is with this problem in India, because included among the health and safety they are very much puzzled when activities of the International Atomic people ask them about it and they do Energy Agency. There have been not know the answer? 'ome very preliminary discussions on the subject at meetings of the Board Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: 1 am sur­ of Governors of the Agency, but no prised to hear that, because the conclusions have been arrived at. students who have been sent abroad are students who almost always have (c) The general question of safe worked in these establishments at disposal of radioactive wastes is Trom bay. So, it is not a question of under the active consideration of a their being told. They know from committee appointed by the Director personal experience. There might be of the Atomic Energy Establishment a special case of a person who has not at Trombay. worked there. If the lady Member could draw my attention to any parti­ Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: May cular fact in her knowledge, I shall I know whether the attention of the enquire. Prime Minister has been drawn to a recent noite by the USSR on this sub­ Shri Kasliwal: The Prime Minister ject, coRiplaining against this disposal will recall that & few months back. 13583 Oral Answers 7 MAY 1958 Oral Answers

th e re was some accident at Harwell Shrimati Ila Palchoodfcnri: May I in U.K. in some Atomic Energy know whether it is a fact that an in­ Establishment, and subsequently we creasing number of Pakistani nationals read that thousands of gallons of con­ have asked for Indian citizenship? taminated milk and some other waste How many of them have taken Indian were thrown into the sea. May I citizenship? know whether Government have received any reports on the effect of Mr. Speaker: How does it ariM out this dumping into the sea of that con­ of passports? Passport relates to taminated milk and other waste? passport, not to citizenship. Shri Jawaharlal Nehra: The- British Shri Nath Pai: There have been Government, and I believe, the press reports that racketeering is British Atomic Energy Commission taking a very serious turn, that issued statements about this matter, passports are sold from Rs. 2000 to about the accident at Harwell and the Rs. 8000 per head. That is one steps taken. aspect. Secondly, in Bombay 7 police officials have been arrested for being Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: May I accomplices in this racketeering busi­ know whether the method and the ness. Will the Prime Minister be procedure adopted by us at Trombay pleased to say what steps are taken is in any way different from that to curtail these activities? adopted by other countries? Shri Sadath Ali Khan: The follow­ Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I cannot ing precautionary measures have been answer this question unless I know taken to combat recurrence of such about the exact procedure in every incidents: (1) The accused, both in country. Obviously, most of the pro­ Delhi and the adjacent States, are cedures arc common;—they learn from being dealt with according to law in each other—they might vary here and India; (2) The police, the Regional there, but the basic approach must be Passport Officers and Indian Missions the same. abroad have been alerted and asked to keep a close watch on the activi­ Passport Racketeers ties of passport racketeers; (3) Travel document? of incoming and outgoing f Shrimati 11a Palchoudhuri: personnel are now scrutinised minute­ *2051. J Shri Hem Barua: ly at check-posts on the Indo-Pakis- [Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: tan border. These are some of the measures we are taking. Will the Prime Minister be pleased to state: Shri Narayanankutty Menon: Is it a fact that one of these passport (a) whether Delhi Police have racketeers arrested in this connection obtained certain information about along with police officials, managed passport racketeers working on two to escape from jail custody? If so. sides of the Indo-Wost Pakistan bor­ what action has been taken to inves­ der; and tigate the connection between the (b) if so, what action Government policc officials and this particular have taken or propose to take in the man? m atter? Shri Sadath Ali Khan: This news The Parliamentary Secretary to the appeared in the papers this morning. Minister of External Affairs (Shri I cannot say anything about it. I do Sadath All Khan): (a) Yes, Sir. not know. (b) Offenders are being prosecuted under the appropriate sections of the ; jt a r m r Law. f«F SK ^ fan5* v rw f fnr TPTT <*JTT- © r* l Anneers 7 MAT liM* O ral A n tw trs 13586

Outpost at Uluha, the Pakistani Mili­ *jr t flRtf wWr % firarr* m i - tary Patrol Party called them towards * f t ? the Pakistani border. On the Indian nationals paying no heed to this, the jt* * r «T3ft m r «m * »hft : Pakistani military men opened ftre (4ft «rfcEast Pakistan asked ^ «r rnf*F *r?rr % ffrr irm v T i*\$a tor an immediate enquiry into the 3fr fnp f t i **ft <*bi +i*t fa?r«i matter and compensation for loss of 1 life. A similar protest has also been « A r v*£r cpm t| fw ft 1 ^ ^ ^ made by the Government of India to ^tt yt w *ri *ftr 5% fw = rr the Pakistan High Commission. «r » ^ w ™ * ^ ^STm Shri U. L. Patil: May I know if any tot fa **fi tm ^t 1 g*rr «R V i !-»t l^Tl 'TPT'T'T^ •H'H *T*T *T I people were engaged in smuggling. 5TPT

(a) what were the reasons for ask­ Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: What I ing compensation under separate said in reply to the Short Notice heads for him, his wife and sons when Question was that as far as my step­ his wife is living with him and his mother was concerned, she was left sons are described as minors; some property by her father who died (b) what was the difficulty in mak­ in 1931. If she filed a claim on account ing a composite claim for his share of the property left to her by her own of ancestral property; father and received either some main­ tenance allowance or compensation, I (c) whether it is a fact that in the have no knowledge. My mother does first instance his mother Shrimati not live with me. She lives in Putli Devi was also a claimant and Rajasthan. in later application she withdrew her claim i and Mr. Speaker: I want to make a sug­ gestion. I feel not a little embarras­ (d) whether it is a fact that a large sing to allow this question or this portion of his property was in canton­ kind of answer. The hon. Minister has ment and whether the value of land to decide his own affairs and give an was also computed in assessing his explanation about himself so far as cla im s? his Ministry is concerned. I wottfd 7 MAY 1058 Oral Answer* *3390

* suggestion that in all cases 4.60.000 claimants. No. 3 is that over where any Minister is Interested in a 3.15.000 people have been paid their particular matter relating to his claims up till now to the total value department, he will place it in the of Rs. 80 crores. I have not received a hands of the Prime Minister who will single penny in my claim. appoint some other persons to look into it and dispose of it. While replying to the short notice question I had categorically stated-— Shri Jawaharlal Nehru rose— may I read out four lines?—: Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: I said so “As Minister in charge of the in reply to the Short Notice Ques­ Compensation Scheme, my posi­ tion ...... tion is peculiar and difficult.” Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I am dealing with the claims Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: If in any “There is no authority outside newspaper allegations art made which those prescribed under the Act pritna facie have no force, is the who can pass orders in regard to Minister to run to the Prime Minister claims and compensation. All these immediately? orders are of a judicial nature. Nevertheless, as I do not want. . Mr. Speaker: No, no. The hon. Minister admits that this is a matter just as you have remarked yourself, relating to his own department. If it Sir, is so, is it right that the M inister “...any matter which concerns should take the responsibility of decid­ me or the members of my family ing a matter between himself and his should be finally decided by offi­ step-mother? cers of my Ministry, I propose to refer any such matter whenever 12 km. it arises to the Prime Minister for Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Nothing such procedural consideration between himself and his step-mother. that may be deemed necessary." As a m atter of fact, there was an article in a newspaper called New Age things. I have not received any com­ m which various allegations were made pensation. If and when I do take the against my hon. colleague. There­ compensation I shall not do so with­ after. a Short Notice Question was out the case being referred to the asked here and my hon. colleague Prime Minister. Thirdly, if ever I get made a statement after consulting my claim, I can only do that by me and showing it to mo I was bidding at the public auction for pro­ brought into the picture at an perty. There is no other procedure early stage and he answered it. So open to me. far as 1 was concerned, there is no question of any further enquiry into Shri Joachim Alva: I believe in what the matter. you say, Sir. When a Minister is per­ sonally involved, another Minister Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: May I may answer the question to save per­ only add one thing? Claims were in­ sonal embarrassments as well as the vited in ,1950. They were verified in dignity of the House. the year 1D51, 1952, long before I was appointed a Minister 3-4 years after Mr. Speaker: We will go to the next that I was not a Minister then. That question. is No. 1. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Can No. 2 is that my claims were veri­ the Minister lay a statement on the fied exactly in the same manner as the Table of the House showing the ori­ at any claimant—I mean the ginal claims and the verified claims? 13591 Oral Antwtrs 7 MAX IM S O ral Aauwert * 3$$*

Tha t will save embarrassment tor him are not sitting here as an appellate and for us too. authority to decide whether a deci­ sion is right or wrong. Individual than. Shri Mehr Chaart Khan Ha: This very Members may hold their own views question has been raised and formed on individual cases. But I would like part of the original question. You to tell hon. Members that we have no have deleted it yourself. jurisdiction. How long can we sit? Shall we sit endlessly on these mat­ Shrimati Reno Chakravartty: It :s ters of individual cases? Therefore, only a question of laying it on the I suggest that in all matters where Table of the House. If we have been there is a possibility of doubt whether •wrong, we shall correct ourselves and it affects an individual Minister, some if he is wrong he will correct himself. other Minister must be authorised to Mr. Speaker: W hat is the ques­ look into that matter or the Prime tion? M inister him self may do so.

Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: I Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I accept wanted to know whether the Minister that. Sir. I may say with all respect will lay on the Table the original that in the present case, if I may re­ claims, the claim orders and the veri­ peat, the whole question arises be­ fied claims . . . (Interruptions). cause there is a Minister ipvolved, not because any individual is involved. Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: Under The question arose in that matter three the old rules, the family members of or four years before he became a a joint family filed their claims sepa­ Minister—that is, in regard to the put­ rately. I have accepted it and I Said ting in of those applications, etc. In so. W hen these claims were filed in ■fact, no action has been taken in the 1950 th at was the rule Under the sense that any payment was made. N® rules then prevailing, the idea was payment is going to be made. In the that everybody will get his share pro normal course, as he said, if and when rata. It was later on in 1955 that it it arises, it is referred to the Prime was decided that there would be one Minister and is considered fully. unit and a ceiling. I was responsible Shri Tangamani: But what is the for bringing that amendment in this difficulty in complying with that ques­ House that in the life time of his tion? father, his son could not get a share. Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I would Shrimati Rena Chakravartty: My not allow any paper to be laid on the point is not that at all, Sir Unfortu­ Table. This will be a precedent for nately the hon. Minister replies to a every other case and a statement will somewhat quite different question have to be laid on the Table if a licence than the one put from this side The is disposed of or cancelled... ( Interrup­ question is this. Will he lay on the tions.') Order. order Every hon. Table of the House the original Member and every person will heckle claims, the claim orders made and the the other hon. Member and make the amounts verified and passed? That is life of the hon. Member impossible all that I wanted here. Already I know a number of hon Members are being troubled by Mr. Speaker: Relating to this matter? the refugees. They must be left to Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: That the care of the Minister except in the question was received by the Lok case where he is a Minister himself in Sabha Secretariat and this part has which case I shall leave it to the hon. been deleted because it was of a judi­ Prime Minister. If still there is a cial nature... doubt, those persons who are Mem­ bers of Parliament can be relieved ot Mr. Speaker: We do not go into that doubt by the Prime Minister individual eases here. Thousands of taking the papers and doing whatever claims have been disposed of. We is necessary .. (Interruptions) . It la 0 * 1 Anrwm 7 MAY IWf Oral Answtrs fctnr*Tl. * &* Minister himce}£ in a (b) whether the itinerary includes qturtMwilcial fbrm has to decide a several days stay in Madrid which pacttwuiar matter. I am not going to has no Indian Embassy; tOoNT *ny statement to be placed on tbe Table of the Mouse. That is my (c) whether the inspection of all the ruling Also for rejecting clause (e) in Indian Embassies in Europe will be the original question. I leave it to the completed during this short tour; and hon. Prime Minister to consider what (d) the amount of foreign exchange other steps need be taken. I am not involved in this tour” going to allow any such paper to be placed here to remove any kind otf Tbe Prime Minister and Minister of doubt here. External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Sir, I do Nehru): (a) Yes. not quite undecft$nd. I completely (b) Y l^ for four days. agree, if I may say so with respect, that where any Minister is concerned, (c) No. directly or indirectly, the matter has (d) Rs. 34,200. to be viewed from a special point of view. It is not a mere individual case. He is a Minister. In other cases it may be dealt with. But in this case Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: May the matter cannot be dealt with by I know if there are certain embassies him alone. The Prime Minister comes that have not at all been inspected in; may be the Cabinet comes in. and certain embassies that have been Whatever it may be, I accept it. In the inspected move than once and also present case I do not quite know be­ whether those that have not been ins­ cause about eight or nine years ago, pected at all are in the Asian areas long before my colleague was a Mem­ and (hose that have been inspected ber of Parliament or a Minister, he more than once arc more in the Euro­ put in an application on his be­ pean areas? If so, what is the reason half at that time, which application is for .sending this particular inspection appaiently not disposed of or dealt team to Europe? with and nothing has been paid to him. As I said, no action can be taken Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: The reason. on that application, he being a Minis­ Sir, is to inspect these places, many ter, by his Ministry. He will have to of which have not been visited at all come up to me or to the Cabinet. at any time. Some have been visit­ ed. They are important. Some like Mr. Speaker: Next question.... London are constantly visited, being (Interruptions.) The Question Hour is just on the way. Whenever an ins­ over. pector goes he reports about certain Shri S. M. Banerjee: I w ant to sub­ places. Most of the places that this mit one thing. team is going to visit are Prague, Shri Narayanankutty Menon: 1 have Warsaw, Budapest, Vienna, Oslo, tabled a separate question. Stockholm, London, Madrid, Rabat, Paris, Rome and Cairo. This is the Air. Speaker: I will look into it if itinerary of this team. Most of these there is a separate question. places have not been visited. There­ Short Notice Question and Answer fore, I cannot off-hand say what places in Asia have been visited or have Tour of Foreign Service Inspectors to not been visited. Only recently, last Europe week, this team went to Burma and S. N. Q. No. 19. Shrimati Renu came back to Rangoon after visiting Chakravartty: Will the Prime Min­ our Embassy tfc^re. ister be pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that an Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Is it inspection team is to leave for two a fact that many of the areas in Asia months tour of Europe immediately; and West Asia tequire the inspection *35 95 Oral Ansvftn 7 MAY 1968 Ora l A ntw ert I3J5© tea m to go and find out what are the Shrimati Rena Chtknvuttf: I living conditions there, and the ins­ would like you, Sir, to explain to me pection team spends very little time what exactly is wrong in my asking in these outposts and spends much this question. Most o f the important more time in the shopping centres of things are being cut down for want Singapore, Hongkong and other places? of funds, whereas we find that when our inspection teams go abroad they Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: How could finish only a few Embassies and come I answer that question, Sir, unless we back so that they may again go after have the itinerary and their pro­ some time. This is an important ques­ gramme as to how many days they tion. I do not see anything tenden­ have spent at each place? I cannot tious in it. know by heart. I shall look into the Mr. Speaker: That is why I admit­ matter. If the suggestion is that they ted it. It is open to the Prime Minis­ have spent more time in Hongkong ter to say that on account of short­ o f and Singapore— course, it is plea­ ness of notice he is not going to sant to be there—I cannot answer thfu answer it. But he readily accepted unless I enquire into it. to answer this. I will allow some broad outlines to be ask

and ieconomy. We save money, that write a letter to the hon. Prime Minis­ is to say, the amount we spend on ter. inspectors is very little, much less Mr. Speaker: He must have done it than the amount we save by giving earlier and not brought it up here in effect to their recommendations. this House.

The hon. Lady Member's mind is Shri S. A. Dange: On this point of full of suspicions. It is rather diffi­ suspicion, Sir, what I want to say Is, cult for me to deal with a suspicious it is not that we are over-suspielous; mind. Obviously, I cannot guaran­ we are just being cautious after tile tee that every person who has gone directions given by the Chagla Com­ there has been working 24 hours a mission Report. day or 12 hours a day, and not, per­ haps, having an off-time in the after­ Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: May I say, noon or spending an off-day. I can­ Sir, that the Chagla Commission Re­ not guarantee that. We try to draw port casts no aspersions on the up their programme having regard to foreign service, the home service or the work to be done there, and we pre­ the domestic service? I really protest sume that the work will be done effi­ against the Chagla Commission Report ciently and properly. being used for purposes like this. Neither Justice Chagla nor anybody else wanted it. It has nothing, no re­ Madrid was included specially be­ lation to Shri Dange saying anything cause it is quite a new field for us. on this question or anything related We know nothing about it. None of directly or indirectly to this ques­ our people have been to Madrid ever tion. How then does it arise. Sir, since independence Or before. it is except through some perverse bit of quite a new field, and it was neces­ reasoning? sary. If we send a man—we are not having an Ambassador there; we are Shri S. A. Dange: They have asked having a Charge d’ affaires—some­ to be generally cautious about the body has to make arrangements for services. him. However, he himself goes and does it. This team could easily go Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Our services there because it is on the way to are very good and very honest, by Rabat and, therefore, he could go and large. I repeat that here. They there and fix it up. It i-s quite a have done a fine piece of work in normal thing. There is nothing very India. I cannot guarantee about the special and attractive in Madrid for a honesty and integrity of every indivi­ person to go there for a holiday. dual out of the thousands of persons, but I say that' our services can com­ pare with any services in the wide Raja Mahendra Pratap: May I world in efficiency and in integrity. bring to the notice of the hon. Prime Minister, Sir, that sometimes when Shri S. A. Dange: And the Minis­ visas are required some people of the ters too. Embassies or Consulate want some money before they give visas; it is Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: And the very sad. Ministers too; I am not so sure of the Opposition. Shri Narasimhan: Sir, I suggest very serious charge, Sir. I should like Shri S. A. Dange: Who had to the hon. Member to give me the resign because of the Report’’ name of any person like that. Shri Narasimhan: Sir, 1 suggest that the remarks of Raja Mahendra R«Ja Mahendra Pratap: It will be Pratap about officers merit expunc- a little shame for our country. I will tion from the proceedings. *33 99 Written Answer* 7 IjLAY 1M? Written Arwv4n IJ& O Shri JawmharUl Nehra: I do not m unique issued in pursuance of the mind. I am not afraid of these re­ Delegation's visit is placed on th* marks. I want our Raja Saheb to Table of the Lok Sabha. [See Appen­ send me a single case. I am prepared dix Vltl, annexure No. 140..] to let him mention it here in public; I shall answer it. Let him put a ques­ Model Town hi Kewari tion here in the House, I shall answer *2042. Shri Chuni Lai: Will the it; I do not want to hide any facts. Minister of Rehabilitation and Mino­ Raja Mahendra Pratap: Sir, I only rity Affairs be pleased to state : 1 : said. .. (a) whether the shops and houses Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I must built by Government in Model Town, be a little more severe with the hon. Rewari, District Gurgaon of Punjab Member. He does not put himself to form part of the rehabilitation pool; any discipline so far as this House U (b) the number of houses and shops concerned. Even when I get up and out of them which have been sold; I ask him kindly to resume his seat, he docs not do so. Hon. Members will (c) how the remaining houses and kindly see that there are certain rules shops are being utilised at present; in the Rules of Procedure relating to (d) whether there is any proposal questions about officers. They must to dispose them of by sale; and observe those rules. If any particular Member has got any complaint against (e) if not, the action Government some officers, he must intimate to the propose to take in the matter? Minister to be ready with an answer; The Minister of Rehabilitation and off-hand they ought not to raise such Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand questions here. When once some Khanna): fa) Yes, they form part of dust is thrown particularly on some the compensation pool. Embassy or our Foreign Service the matter becomes serious. Much depends (b) Houses—7, Shops—Nil. upon their integrity and the confidence and respoct we have as it affects their (c) 241 houses are m occupation of reputation as a whole. Therefore, the Infirmary; 7 have been leased out such observations ought not to be to Government. 5 are occupied by pri­ vate persons on rental basis and 38 made here. Even when questions arc- put, it is proper for me to look into are lying vacant. the matter and allow or disallow. 4 shops are also lying vacant. Therefore, at random an hon. Member (d) and iv). According to the ought not to say any such thing in the policy of Government, all vacant pro­ House—until he speaks 1 do not know perties in townships will be sold by whether he speaks rightly or wrongly. public auction. As most of the houses are being used as infirmary, the ques­ tion of their sale at the moment does WRITTEN ANSWERS TO not arise. QUESTIONS Powerloom Mills in Punjab Saudi Arabian Trade Mission *2054. Shri Daljit Singh: W ill the Minister of Commerce and Industry *2040. Shri Shobha Ram: Will the be pleased to state: Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state what is the result (a) whether Government are aware of the Saudi Arabian Mission which that a number of powerloom mills visited India to explore possibilities of have been closed down in the Punjab strengthening trade relations between State on account of excise duty and 1he two countries? heavy stocks unsold; The Minister «*t Commerce (Shri (b) whether it is also a fact that Kanunfo): A copy of the Joint Com­ the owners of such mills have started t t f o l Ifrittm Answers 7 MAY 1938 Written Answers

pow erlAom mills of small number in commendation in this regard made b y different names to avoid excise duty; the Central Boatrd of Jfruatees of tb» and Employees’ Provident Fund in th e ir last meeting is under the considers* (c) if so, the steps Government tion of Government of India and a propose to take in this regard? final decision will be taken shortly. The Minister of Commerce (Shri K a n n ro ): (a) No, Sir. Nagas (b) and (c). Do not arise. Shri Llladhar Koteki: Ware Board for Plantation Workers Shri Rameshwar T an t la: Shri V. C. Shukla: *20S5. -Dr. Ham Subhag Singh: Will •*051. Dr. Ram Subhag Staffer the Minister of Labour and Employ- Shri Mohan Swarup: ment be pleased to state: Shrimati Maflda Ahmed: (a) whether representations have Shri N. C. Laskar: been made to Government for setting Shri P. C. Borooah: up Wage Board for determining wages of plantation workers; and Will the Prime Minister be pleased to state: (b) if so, whether those proposals have been examined and whether any (a) whether Naga hostiles recently decision has been arrived at? penetrated into North Cachar Hill* Tbe Deputy Minister for Labour and caused depredations on the Kukte (Shri Abld Ali): (a) and (b). The and the Nagas; matter was considered by the Sub- Committee of the Industrial Commit­ (b) if so, their number; tee on Plantations nn 23rd April. 1958 and the conclusion was that a Wage (c) whether there have been any Board need not be appointed at pre­ activities of hostile Nagas in the sent. Dimapur and Marghenta areas also; and Employees’ Provident Fund (d) what steps- Government have *2056. Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: Will taken to protect the people in the the Minister of Labour and Employ­ affected areas? ment be pleased to refer to the reply given to S tarred Question No. 300 on The Parliamentary Secretary to the the 19th February. 1958 and state: Minister of External Affairs (S h ri Sadath Ali Khan): (a) and (b). Re­ (a) whether a firm decision has cently, about 60 Naga hostiles are re­ since been taken with regard to ported to have entered the North grant of recoverable loans from the Cachar Mikir Hills District of Assam Employees’ Provident Fund to the and indulged in some looting and employees suffering from serious ill­ kidnapping. ness; and (c) No. Not since early March. (b) if not, when a decision is likely to be reached on the recommenda­ tion made by the Central Board of (d) Armed Police columns from Trustees of Employees’ Provident Assam are operating in North Cachar Fund in this regard at their meeting Hills with a view to apprehend the held on the 24th March, 1957? miscreants and protect law-abiding citizens. Additional powers under the The Deputy Minister for Labour Assam Disturbed Areas Act have (Shri Abld AH): (a) and (b). A re ­ been given to the Police. *3*>3 Written Amtoers 7 MAY 196® Written Annoert 13604

S*w FUm (c) Y#s, Sir. fS h ri Acbar: I Shri A. K. Gopalan: (d) As a result of the representa­ tions received on behalf of the Film J Shri Nagi Reddy: Producers regarding hardship, the " | Shri Narayanankutty Menon: cut in imports would cause them, the [ Shri Vasudevan Nair: import policy has been reviewed by (^Shrimati Parvathi Krishnan: the Government and the quota has Will the Minister of Commerce and been restored to 60 per cent Gen. artd Industry L>e pleased to .state: 60 per cent Soft during the current period as announced in Public Notice (a ) w hether it is a fact that-G ov­ No. 31-JTC (PN )/58 dated 28-4-1958. ernment has imposed a cut of (JO per cent, in the import of raw film rerent Iv; Extradition Treaty

(b) what is the value of the raw '2059. Shri Ram Garib: Will the film for which import is allowed and Prime Minister be pleased to refer to how much of it is earmarked for the the reply given to Starred Question Films Division of Government; No. 1147 on the 24th August, 1957 and state the progress so far made towards (c) whether Government have the conclusion of Extradition Treaty received any representations on between India and Pakistan? behalf of the film producers regard­ ing the hardship it would cause them; The Parliamentary Secretary to the and Minister of External Affairs (Shri (d) if so, the action proposed to be S&dath Ali Khan): The matter is still under consideration. taken in the matter? The Minister / Commerce (Shri 0 All India Sericulture Training Kanungo): (a) The quota percentage Institute (Mysore) for this item was reduced from 60 to 40 during the current licensing period in the first instance which was later *2060. Shri Siddiah: Will the Minis­ restored. ter of Oommerce and Industry be pleased to refer to the reply given to (b) On the basis of the existing Starred Question No 1635 on the quota of 60 per cent Gen. and CO per 10th September, 1957 and state: cent Soft the total licensing for im­ ports of raw films during the current (a) whether suitable land is avail­ period is likely to be of the order of able for the establishment of an All Rs. 65 lakhs. In addition to this fis. 5 India Training Institute for Sericul­ lakhs worth of films have been releas­ ture near Channapatna (Mysore); and ed to the Trade from the imports made by the State Trading Corpora­ (b) if so, w hether the Government tion against licences issued to them of Mysore have acquired the same? for Rs. 20 lakhs during October, 195” —March, 1958 on rupee payment The Minister of Industry (Shri Additional stocks of raw films im­ Mannbhai Shah): (a) and (b). The ported by (he State Trading Corpo­ Government of Mysore have ration will also be diverted to meet stated that no suitable land the needs of the industry, if neces­ is available near Channapatna sary. This does not, however, in­ but that land and buildings clude the requirements of Films Divi­ arc available at Mysore city which sion of the Government of India which would be suitable for the purpose. It will be licensed against specific foreign has accordingly been decided to locate exchange releases obtained by them the All India Training Institute for from the Ministry, of Finance. Sericulture at Mysore .city. W ritten Arinotrs ? MAY 1058 Written Aiwtrers 13606 CM* n of Twrttt* BClls in K nfgr (c) 25 retrenched workmen of the Railway have been reported to be *m i. Shri S. M. Buierjee: Will the squatting in the lawn opposite the Minister of Cautmerce and Industry office of the Superintendent of the be pleased to state: Railway. (a) whether it is a fact that nearly (d) That the retrenched workers 10,000 textile workers are facing should be reinstated. unemployment on account of closure (c) The dispute has been referred and partial closure of several mills in for adjudication. K anpur; lb) If so, the steps taken by Gov­ Displaced Persons in Purana Qila ernment to solve this problem; and 112062. Shri D. C. Sharm a: Will the (c) whether a High Power Com­ Minister of Rehabilitation and Mino­ mission is bt-mg appointed to investi­ rity Affairs bo pleased to refer to the gate into the working of these Mills? rep h juvju to S tarred Question No. 964 on the 10th December, 1957 and state The Minister of Commerce (Shri the progress made in shifting the dis­ Nityanand Kanungo): (a) Two mills placed persons residing in Purana w ith a complement of 7,070 w orkers Qila. Delhi? are known to be closed at present. One other mill with a labour strength The Minister of Rehabilitation and of 2,252 is under notice of closure. Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand K hanna): Out of 689 displaced fam i­ (b) and (c). The appointment of a lies in Purana Qila, 134 families have Commission is not considered neces­ actually shifted. 148 families have sary at present but the situation is accepted plots and they have bee*, being kept under Government’s close given six months’ time to shift. watch. Industrial Development of Saudi Arabia S.S. Light Railway *2063. Shri Harish C handra M athnr: fShri Bhakt Darshan: Will the Minister of Commerce and *2661- A . S h r i T&ngamani: Industry be pleased to state: (_Shri Vajpayee: (a) whether Saudi Arabia have 'Will the M inister of Labour and asked for India’s assistance in setting Employment be pleased to state: up industries in that country; and (a) whether it is a fact that 212 (b) if so, the particulars of indus­ workers of S.S. Light Railway were tries to be set up and the attitude of retrenched during April, 1958; Government in the matter? (b) if so, the reasons therefor; The Minister of Commerce (Shri (c) whether it is a fact that about Kanungo): (a) The question of mutual 25 Railway workmen of the S.S. Light co-operation for economic develop­ Railway have been on a sit-down strike ment of both countries was discussed .-incc the 10th April, 1958; in general terms. (d) if so, what are their demands; (b) Does not arise. and (e) the action taken by Government Manganese Ore in the m atter? / Shri Bho*i> Bhai: The Deputy Minister of Labour ' \ Sli.: Rameshuur Tantia: (Shri Abld A ll):

Western countries has recently HtMpwriaa decreased; and Limited

(b) If so, what is the reason? f Shri Rameshwar Taatia: *2M8 J Shri V- C « “ «■:- The Minister of Commerce (Shri Dr. Ram Subha* Singh: K jM ttft): Ca) Yes, Sir. (_Shri Nasjappa:

(b) The main reasons for the decline Will the Minister of Commerce a*4 are:— Industry be pleased to state: (i) On account of the current (a) whether it is a fact that the recession, steel production in Hindustan Antibiotics (Private) Ltd. the U.S.A. has gone down to have entered into an agreement with almost'^© per cent, of its rated an American firm for .the. manufac-, capacity, and inventory stocks ture of Streptomycin and Dihydro­ with principal consumers are streptomycin in India; and high. In other countries also (b) if so, what are the details of steel production has declined. the agreement? (ii) Production of ferro-manganese The Minister of Industry (Shri in U.S.A. which has so far Manubhai Shah): (a) Yes, Sir. sustained a high level of the demand for high grade ores (b) A statement, containing impor­ has also declined. tant points of the agreement is placed on the Table of the Lok Sabha. [See (iii) The low grade manganese ore A ppendix VIII, annexure No. 141.] which was being used as a desulphurising agent in the production of steel is gradually Pakistanis’ Raid on Chhamba being replaced by Caustic Village Soda. *2067. Shri Vajpayee: Will the (iv) World production of manga­ Prime Minister be pleased to state: nese ore has increased and (a) whether on the 13th April, increased supplies are avail­ 1958 Pakistanis carried out a raid on able from competing sources. Chhamba village (in Jammu and Kashmir State) resulting in the death of two and injuries to three Indian Indians in Ceylon nationals; (b) if so, the details of this inci­ *2M5 fS h ri Tangamani: dent; and ^ S h r l S. M. Banerjee: (c) the action taken in respect Will the Prime Minister be pleased thereof? to state: The Parliamentary Secretary to the (a) whether any Indians were Minister of External Affairs (Shri killed in the recent disturbances in Sadath Ali Khan): (a) and (b). On Ceylon; and the night of 13th April, 1958, eight persons raided village Chhamba in (b) if so, their number? Jammu and Kashmir State which is about four miles on our side of the The Parliamentary Secretary to the Cease Fire Line. They attacked a Minister of External Affairs (Shri man sleeping in his shop, a couple Sadath All Khan): (a) No. Sir. sleeping in their compound and an­ other man elsewhere. Two of the (b) Does not arise. victims received injuries; the other W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1958 Written Answers 1361®

(wo were killed. Enquiries to ascer­ from reports appearing in the Press. tain the identity of the assailants, are From similar reports, it is now learnt in progress. that these persons have since left. (c) Necessary action will be taken (b) We are given to understand after enquiries have been completed. from press reports that the demands of these organisations related to rinims Purchase of Milk from II.SA. for non-substantial houses in rural *2068. Dr. Ram Subh&g Singh: Will areas left behind in West Pakistan. the Minister of Commerce and Indus­ try be pleased to state: , \Shri Hem Barn a: (a) whether it is a fact that Ceylon. Will the Minister of Labour and Government is forcing the Indian Employment be pleased to state: Nationals to leave Ceylon on expiry (a) whether it is a fact that an of residence permits in fpite of long Evaluation Committee has been set years of stay; up to examine the cases of non-imple­ (b) whether Government have pro­ mentation or partial, defective, or tested against the same, delayed implementation of labour enactments, agreements, awards, set­ (c) what is the reaction of the Cey­ tlements etc.; lon Government thereto; and (b) if so, the nature thereof; and (d) when a final dcciMon is likely to be taken in 1hr- regard? (c) the time by which evaluation machinery will be set up at different The Parliamentary Secretary to the levels? Minister of External Affairs (Shri Sadath Ali Khan): (a) Yes, Sir. The Deputy Minister of Labour (Shri Abld AH): (a) and (b). An (b) to (d). The Indian High Com­ Evaluation and Implementation Divi­ missioner in Ceylon submitted an sion has been set up at the Centre. A. Aide Memoiri' to the Government of committee will soon be set up on a Ceylon on the 22nd February, 195£, tripartite basis. urging that Government to clarify Us (c) Suggestion has been made to policy in regard to the question of State Governments to set up such a repatriation of Indian nationals and machinery at State and local levels. the Cey Ionization of business. No While Government of West Bengal reply has yet been received from the have set up a Cell the matter is under Government of Ceylon. consideration of the other States. It is understood that the Govern­ Co-operative Movement in India ment of Ceylon have appointed a sub­ committee of the Cabinet to go into *2971. Shri Harish Chandra Math or: this problem and to recommend con­ Will the Minister of Planning be ditions under which Indian nationals pleased to state: holding Temporary Residence Permits (a) whether it is fact that the could be permitted to stay on to Colombo Phut Consultant to the Plan­ Ceylon. 13013 Written Atmetn 7 MAY 1958 Written Aimotn

I m M ai« i Uri sector, have completed their investigations; *»n. Dr. Hub Snbhaf Stnfh: Will the Minister of Commerce and Indus­ (b) if so, the results thereof; and try be pleased to state: (c) the action taken thereon? (a) whether it is a fact that large quantity of tea of certain Tea Estates The Parliamentary Secretary to the has been attached recently under the Minister of External Affairs (Hhri Payment of Wages Act for paying the Sadath Ali Khan): (a) Yes, Sir. arrears of salaries of the labourers of those Estates; (lit The U.N. Observers’ findings were that the incident did take place (b) if so, the number of such Tea but that civilians of Pakistan occupied Estates; and Kashmi.- territory and not the Pakis­ tan Armed Forces, were involved. '(c) what is their present position? (c) The Indian constable, who was The Deputy Minister of Commerce kidnapped, was pushed back into and Industry (Shri Satish Chandra): Indian territory by the Pakistanis. A (a) to (c). The administration of the protest has been lodged with the Gov­ Payment of Wages Act in plantations ernment of Pakistan against the vests with the State Governments. incident. Required information is being collected from them. Aid to West Bengal Wage Board lor Working Journalists *1899. Shri Bimal Ghose: Will the pShri S. M. Banerjce: Minister of Planning be pleased to state: *2074. ^ Shri Tangamani: i Shri Vajpayee: (a) whether it is a fact that West Will the Minister of Labour and Bengal is not being given the amount Employment be pleased to state: of Central assistance as was origi­ nally contemplated in the pattern of (a) whether a tripartite Conference financing the West Bengal State Plan was held at Delhi in April, 1958 to dis­ as staled by the West Bengal Chief cuss recent judgment of the Supreme Minister in his Budget statement to Court regarding Journalists’ Wage the West Bengal Assembly; and Board; and (b) if so. the reasons therefor? fb') if so, the decisions taken? The Deputy Minister of Planning The Deputy Minister of Labour (Shri S. N. Mishra): (a) and (b). The (Shri Abld A11): (a) and (b). Discus­ relevant portion of the Budget State­ sions are being held by Government ment of the Chief Minister of West with representatives of Working Bengal has come to the notice of the Journalists and Newspaper manage­ Planning Commission. The matter is ments. under correspondence with the West Bengal Government. Violation of Cease-fire Line Employment Potential *2*75. Shri Vajpayee: Will the Prime Minister be pleased to refer to 3356. Shri Jadhav: Will the Minis­ the reply given to Starred Question ter of Labour and Employment be No. 675 on the 4th March, 1958 and pleased to state the employment poten­ state: tial at present in Centra! Government? (a) whether the U.N. observers The Deputy Minister of Laboar with whom a complaint was lodged (Shri Abid Ali): The estimated num­ by India in respect of Pakistan's ber of persons in employment at pre­ violation of the cease fire line in the sent under the Central Government is >3615 W ritten Antw ers 7 MAY 19SS W ritten Aitrawre 136:6

I t r lS lakhs excluding Indian M iiwona 8hu» Clearance to Mysore dkM d Figures regarding likely additional employment are not avail* u s * . Shri SMdlafc: Will the Minister ab le. of Works, Hoaxing and Sapptjr be pleaaed to refer to the reply g iv e n to Unstarred Question No. 382 on th e 19th Sericulture February, 1958 and lay a statement on the Table showing: SSS9. Shri M. V. Krishna Rao: W ill (i) the details of the projects the Minister of Commerce and Indus­ received from the Govern­ try be pleased to state: ment of Mysore from the (a) the amount given to the Andhra commencement of the First Pradesh Government for the develop­ Five Year Plan upto the 31st ment of sericulture during the years March, 1958; 1967-58 and 1958-59; and (ii) the details of the projects sanctioned; and

The Minister of Commerce and The Deputy Minister of W orks, ladastry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): Housing and Supply (Shri Anil K.

(viii) if so, the time by which it (c) whether there is a demand for will materialize? more allotment from the Madras State? The Minister of Commerce and

Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (i) and (ii) (a) The quantity to be imported will Name of Manufac- Import licence issued depend upon the availability of foreign turer during the licens- exchange. ing period Oct. 57 to March, 1958. (b) No State-wise allocation for imported Rayon Silk Yarn is made. (c) Since there is an acute shortage (a) M/s. Harbanslal Malhotra . of yarn in the country demand for & Sons (P) Ltd., Calcutta . . 221 tons. increased quota is being made from (b) M/s. Hind Razor & Blade Co. all parts of the country including (P) Ltd., Bombay . . . 12 tons^ Madras. (c) M/s. National Razor & Blade Ltd., Calcutta . . . 2 tons. «fi To 5TTO srtJpenH ; (iii) The steel is generally imported from U.K., Germany, Sweden, U.S.A., and Canada. (iv) Rs. 9-4 lakhs in the aggregate, ( ^ ) I ^ approximately. It is not possible to indicate the value of steel to be im- fw rsR - ^ ported from each country separately. (v) Information is not available in TT f , TTRrf # qrfq-T- regard to the import of cold rolled f ; strips exclusively for the manufacture of razor blades. (vi) The difficulty of manufacturing ^ ^ S R T razor blade strips arises due to the fact that high carbon strips have to be cold rolled, which is a special pro- ( t t ) w cess, requiring a high degree of skill and precision equipment, which is not yet available in the country. # ^ (vii) and (viii). It is hoped that the special kind of steel required for fr«TT *T^‘| razor blades will be manufactured in («f; % r ■0'j^rf) ( ^ ) ^ i the near future.

( ^ ) 5f1'T (*T). t 5f t f ^ Rayon Silk Yarn t JTT ?RqT«ff w f, % I „o£{i /S h ri Xangamani: ■ Shri S. M. Banerjee: ’t t jjHTirrfq-qlf % 't t ?t VPCRT TT ^ Will the Minister of Commerce and I Industry be pleased to state: "f^farrfer ?rsTr f?rirFr,“ ? e.y,y." ^ 1 1 ^ 1 (a) the quantity of Rayon Silk 1 Yarn which will be imported during ^ ^ q-ff ^’Scrr 1 Bie year 1958-59; f^rFq^ sirfer (srRm cr«TT (b) its allotment State-wise; and ?rF«rPTJFr ep ^ ^ f2TTT 13619 Written Answers 7 MAY 1958 Written Answers 13620

srtf *m r f v w n £ i x * * in Goa and Daman during November, 1957 to April, 1958; and ??TfTtqr for*;?-? r; fT'T *t The Prime Minister and Minister of t focrjsp- -4- famir- External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) There were nine such ? rr vff-r 1 violations between November 1057 and 17 April, 1958. Information regarding wtTT^ir C m the latter half of April is not yet available. 3 ^ 3 «f; ?3PT : WT lb) During thi;; period the damage srsrm *t*; ?3 fa-T*^, h ’-^ to property by such violations was % ^tTTffVcT V T tT'T negligible and tliore were no v qr-^fir # z;’ g-Tf'7 +'? -r a 1^ /, Pc : casualties.

( ^ ) ’JTR'T l-'Tft ’fV’iT $ Border Incidents W '-TFTr »frfr nfV -T-Tit’^T vrffrfe; f Shri I>. C. Sharma: t^ r =rr iii v fa^K R ,vr ] Shri llcm Raj: *rr, w r 5.7 ^ •,; ?n> ir 'Vi: f-rq-r "S365 J f,hri s'*?h: ^ Shri Ghosal: ^ fT-TT JT TT f , ; | Shri Uiiug^hi Tbakur: {»?) HU TA, ^r 'TTT '3R JT-Tif-TT Shri Mohan Swarup: *«rr nrr g^TT-r m-Tr ^ Ft^ut t*tt- Will the Prm? Minister bo pleased TiT TT --T: -ii i Y-n ; to stale:

(*t) :if;; ~ u m ?rr*r (-%;) ^ fai the number of border incidents 3r?T TrFTfW . ST, n'.' I T *P^'-T M which have cucurrecl during the 3:T =rir 'f'P’T ? ; >Tk period from l‘:l November, lf>57 to the 3rtUi April, 1 on the Indo-Pakistan (q-) % 1 'v>^sr jt border-; of We.;t and EaAt Pakistan; and *T«T rT* oT 5TT^ ?rr^TT t ? (b) Dio extent of loss of life and s?nvT ir* a«rr t i ' s r f u w ^r3T. property on the Indian side? («i ar*rvCTmr-t^) : (f.) »Sr ( 5 ). The Prime Minister and Minister of «r*fr arf-srs W 'TT '«. 'stht f -^ *tt External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) and fb). A statement %, tfpc n;T TT-fr srfa 'j^ rr ?r:f t, giving available information is placed j[< R *rr r f j * fir'H ?rt ?rrtrfrr rm on the Tabic of Lok Sabha. [See ( 5’TC-HTl^) TT 'JTT-'JTT ^rnT Appendix VIII, annexure No. 145.] OT TT t far Sffa^^TT T??V iff TT^ 5 5 3 Faridabad Township ^ f t srw ft 1 3366. Shri D. C. Sharm a: Will the Violations of India-Goa Territory Minister of Rehabilitation and Mino­ ,_fi4 / Shri D. C. Sharma: rity Affairs be pleased to state: * \ Sardar Iqbal Singh: Will the Prime Minister be pleased (a) the total amount of loss incur­ to state: red by Government on the displaced persons townships of Faridabad; and («) the number of violations of Iadiaa territory by Portuguese troop* (b) the reason thereof? J 3621 Written Answers 7 MAY 1958 Written Answers 13622

T he Minister of Rehabilitation and (b) the number of applications of M inority AHairs (Shri Mehr Chand Indians pending at present for regis­ K taanna): (a) Government of India tration as citizens of Burma? have advanced a total loan of Rs. 428 50 lakhs for the construction The Prime Minister and Minister of of the Faridabad Township, its indus­ External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal trial development and for other allied Nehru): (a) According to the latest purposes. All the properties con­ information available, 7994. persons of structed out of the loan have not yet Indian origin have been granted been disposed of. It is, therefore, not Burmese citizenship upto the 6 th possible at this stage to work out the March, 1958. Subsequent figures are net losses or gains if any. not yet available. (b) Does not arise. (b) Exact figures in respect of pend­ ing applications are not available, as the Burmese Governnit*nt have yet to Pakistan Nationals’ Illegal Entry collect the relevant figures from the 3367. Shri D. C. Sharm a: Will the various Districts in Burma, where Prime Minister be pleased to slate: such applications were submitted. (a) the number of persons who ■crossed the border between West Planned Transfer of Staff Bengal and East Pakistan without passports during the months of Dec­ 3369. Shri D. C. Sharm a: Will the ember, 1957 to April, 1958; Prime Minister be pleased to state: (b) the number of persons convict­ (a) whether it is a fact that to ed; and enable officers and staff cf the Gov­ ernment of India to acquire as varied (<•) the number of cases rtil] pend­ a:id wide experience of their duties ing? as possible it was one of the recom­ mendations, of the O and M Division, The Prime Minister and Minister of to transfer the staff on a planned Fvfcrnal Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal basis; and Nehru): Information for the months of December, 1957 and January, 1958 in (b) if so, how far the proposals respect of persons entering India have been implemented and found illegally is as follows: — useful? (a) 1689. The Prime Minister and Minister (b) 309. of External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) and (b). The question (c) 119. of planned transfer of staff in Secre­ tariat was discussed in the 2 0 th m eet­ Information for the months of ing of O. & M. Officers held in the February, March and April, T558 is O. & M. Division on the 30th August, awaited from the State Government. 1957 and the following conclusion was recorded and circulated to all Minis­ Indians in Burma tries and Offices:— “Periodical rotation of assistants 3368. J ***** D> ^ Sharm a: \ Shri Dal jit Singh: within the Ministry/Office— Will the Prime Minister be pleased With reference to the recom­ to state: mendation made by the Study Group that investigated into the (a) the number of Indians who diarising and allocation stage, that have since been granted Burmese assistants and dealing hands should citizenship as on the 31st March, 1058; be shifted from their sections or and at least their seats, once in thre* W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1958 W ritten *$6*4

years, the Director emphasised the the period from the lat November, need for deliberate and planned 1957 to the 31st March, 1988 and who arrangements for training assist­ have been provided with jobs during ants and giving them versatility the same period? of knowledge and experiences. It was necessary to avoid over- The Deputy Minister ef Labour specialisation and fhe difficulties (Shri Abid AU): arising from a lack of a second Registered 7,92,783 line of defence when the so called Placed 84,3 IS ‘experts could not become avail­ able for any reason. The O & M Auctioning of Kvacuee Properties Officer should, therefore, see that the principle of rotation was 3371. Shri D. C. Sharm a: Will th e followed as far as practicable and Iimster of Rehabilitation and Mlno- the persons in the various grades ity Affairs be pleased to state: acquired as variefl and wide 1 (a; the total number of evacuee experience of their duties as properties auctioned in India in the possible. The Establishment Officer months from December, 1957 to April, should also consider it un essen­ 1958, month wise; and tial part of his duty to ensure thal (b> the amount of money realised such rotation took place on a therefrom ? planned hasu-.. without causing dis- . location of work in aiiy Section The Minister of Rehabilitation and Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chanrt A .-.urvey made by tlfe O & M. D ivi­ Khanna): (a) 12402 properties were sion shows that the recommendation auctioned during the months of Decem­ has been Riven effect to by the Minis­ ber, 1957 to March, 1958 as follows:— tries and Attached Offices to a very considerable extent December, 1957 2923 January, 1958 2943 The system of planned transfei s has February, 195!', 3459 been welcomed generally for the March. 1(158 3077 following reasons: - (i) It gives the officers oppor­ Tnlal 12402 tunity to learn work of differ­ ent types and thus become Kigun- lor April. U).r>K are not yet more useful to the Department available as a whole

Employment Exchanges Auctioning of Evacuee Buildings 3376. Shri D. C. Sharm a: Will the 3372. Shri D. C. Sharm a: Will th e Minister of Labour and Employment Minister of Rehabilitation and Mino­ be pleased to state the number of rity Affairs be pleased to state: persons registered with various Em­ (a) the number of evacuee buil

in th« months from December, 1957 by the State Trading Corporation'* to April, 1958; and suppliers (b) the number of such evacuee In regard to imports, handling and buildings the possession of which has distribution of goods has invariably .since been given to the purchasers'’ been arranged through the agencies The Minister of Rehabilitation and specifically appointed by the Corpo­ Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand ration for this purpose. Kbanna): (a) 129 properties as fol­ (b) It will not be 111 the business lows:— interest of the Corporation to fur­ December, 1957 . 5 2 nish particulars January, 1958 .. 9 February, 1958 b 8 State Trading Corporation of India March, 1958 (Private) Ltd.

Total 129 3374. Shri V. C. Shukla: Will the Minister of Comme.rcr and Industry be pleased to state: Figures for April, 195h. are not y<‘t (at the total number of export con­ available. tracts for Manganese Ore entered into (b) Of the piopeities fualioned bel - by the State Trading Corporation of ween December, 1957 and March. India (Private) Ltd. exclusively by 1958, possession of only two properties themselves depart men tally right from ha:; b'‘en given to tlie purchasers bul the beginning; during this period possession was alio lb) the total tonnage contracted; given of 418 properties whjcli had (ci the total tonnage actually sup­ been auctioned prior to December. plied; 1957 the permlK, if any, pair! by tho be pleased to state: State Trading Corporation? The Minister of Commerce and In­ (aj the precise eases in whicn while dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): tiie contracts for purchase or sale < a) (i) 21 Direct were concluded by the State Trading Corporation of India (Private) Ltd , fii) 18 through business associa tilt deliveries of consignments on U\s board the ship for export, and the (b) (i) 2,06,242 tons upto end March handling and distribution of good* on againsl Direct. import, were looked after by the Cor (ii) 3,60,000 tons through agents poration’s Business Associates; and upto end March 5fi tb) the particulars of such Busi (c) (i) 1,30,644 tonv against Direct ness Associates? upto end March. The Minister of Commerce and (ii) 1,62,696 against the rest Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (d) The handling charge varies (a) In respect of 50 per cent of the from pcrtAm port. The necessary in­ «cport of Iron Ore made during July. formation is being collected and will 1957 to January, 1958, deliveries of be placed on the Table of the House. consignments on Board the ship for export were arranged directly by the (e) and

Sta ff In P.LB. etc. ad hoc basis: —

8375. Shri B ahadur Singh: W ill the Category of posts No. of Minister of Information and Broad­ posts casting be pleased to state what per­ filled o f centage of vacancies or actual number hoe by promotion of posts for persons performing jour­ during nalistic duties for 1957-58 (category- 1957-58 wise) in Press Information Bureau, Central News Organisation and Ex­ All India Radio News Editor . I ternal Service of All India Radio, Correspondent . 1 Bharti Samaehar and Indian Infor­ Sub-Editor . . 5 mation, are filled through promotion Chief News Editor . t based on seniority-cum-efficiency so Press In­ as to provide incentive to the staff formation already working in these organi­ Bureau Assistant Information Officer . . 5* sations? Publica­ tions Di­ vision Assistant Editor . 1 The Minister for Information and Broadcasting (Dr. Keskar): A lar^o •Assistant Information Officers (English .... 3 number of posts in the Media organi­ Assistant Information OfTiccr sations of the Ministry of Information (Tamil) .... 1 and Broadcasting, requiring journa­ Assistant Information Officer listic qualifications and experience, are (leave) (Kannada) vacancy) . I temporary and regular recruitment 5 rules, providing for departmental pro­ motion, have not been framed, except in a few cases like Deputy Principal Additional Taxation Inform ation OlTicers in the Pre^j In ­ 3376. Shri H arish C handra M athnr: formation Bureau. Except for tem­ Will the Minister of Planning be porary promotions the practice has pleased to state: hitherto been to recruit candidates, for Class I and Class II journalistic (a) whether targets of amounts to posts, through the Union Public Ser­ be raised by additional taxation b> vice Commission separately for each various States have been revised; organisation and for each category of (b) if so, to what extent; and posts a* and when vacancies occur. (c) the progress made in the reali­ Appointments are made on a tempor­ sation of these targets? ary basis and some are on contract. The Deputy Minister of Planning (Shri S. N. Mishra): (a) and (b). No. 2. It has now been decided to Targets of additional taxation for in­ organise all journalistic posts in the dividual States were given in the various Media Units of the Ministry Second Five Year Plan in col. 4 of into a regular Service. In the rules A ppendix I—vide pages 106-107. T hese for the Service, which are being targets related to the States as they finalised in consultation with the were before ‘reorganisation’. Subse­ Ministries of Home Affairs and Finance' quently, these targets were recast in and Un:on Public Service Commission* terms of reorganised States; no other definite percentages will be specified’ revision was carried out. for filling vacancies by departmental' (c)' A Statement giving the flv®- promotion and by direct recruitment year targets in terms of reorganise# through the Union Public Service States and the progress achieved la Comrr.Mfion. The rules are expected to the realisation of these targets in the be pnumlgated shortly. first tfiree years of the plan is laid on 9. During 1657-58, the fbUbwinff the Table of Lok Sabba. [ffee » poets wei*e filled by promotion), 0 0 dSx VIII, maicame Vos. W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1958 Written Answers 13630

N J5.S. Blocks In West Bengal (b) ii so, what particular projects are likely to be affected? 5377. Shri Subtm an Ghose: W ill the Minister of Planning be pleased to The Deputy Minister of Planning state: (Shri S. N. Mishra): (a) The Planning Commission has been engaged at pre­ (a) when the last evaluation of the sent in reappraising the Second Plan National Extension Blocks in West as a whole. There have been no Bengal was made; and proposals so far concerning individual States. (b) the result of such evaluation? (b) Does not arise. The Deputy Minister of Planning (Shri S. N. Mishra): (a) The evalua­ tion of the National Extension Block Nuclear Energy at Mohd. Bazar (Birbhum District), West Bengal, is being done conti­ 3379. Shri Ram K rishan: Will the nuously. As regards other National Prime Minister be pleased to refer to Extension Blocks in the State, the the reply given to Unstarred Question evaluation of a certain number of No. 1205 on the 5th December, 1957 them is boing done from time to time. and state: The following blocks have been select­ (a) whether the scheme for deve­ ed for Current Evaluation Study lopment of nuclear energy during the during October-December, 1957:— Second Five Year Plan has been fin­ alised; and Block District Whether N.E.S. (b) if so, the main features thereof? or C.D. The Prime Minister and Minister of 1. Baduria 24 Parganas N.E.S. External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal 2 . Dhupguri . Jalpaiguri N.H.S. Nehru): (a) While the broad outlines 3- Manbazar II Purulia N.E.S. of work taken up in hand by the De­ partment of Atomic Energy are men­ 4- Panskura . Midnapore N.E.S. Puncha Purulia C.D. tioned briefly in its Report for 1957-58, 5- the long range plan in regard to the 6 . Kangli-Rangliot Darjeeling C.C. development of atomic energy has not (b) The results of evaluation in a yet been finalised. particular year are incorporated in (b) Does not arise. the Annual Report of the Programme Evaluation Organisation, copies of Divisions, Sub-divisions and Districts which are circulated to Members of of States Parliament and are also available in the Library of the House. The Eva­ 3380. Shri Shree N arayan Das: Will luation Report, covering the studies the Minister of Planning be-pleased to made during 1957-58, is under p re­ state whether it is a fact that the paration and will be published short­ Planning Commission had suggested ly. to the various State Governments to examine the present divisions, sub­ Pnuing of Second Five Tear Plan divisions and districts in their res­ pective jurisdiction with a view to r Shri S. M. Banerjee: J Shri Prabhat Kar: reconstitute these units with smaller area, population and suitable geogra­ Shri Mohammed Ellas: phical position? Shri Sarjn Fandey: Will the Minister of Planning be The Deputy Minister of Planning pleased to state: (Shri S. N. Mishra): The First Five (a) whether pruning of Second Year Plan had recommended {vide Vive Year Plan has affected UP.; and Chapter VII, para 11, page 191) that it 13631 Written Answers 7 MAY 1938 W ritten A twicer* I 3630. m ight be useful lor the State Govern­ Steaopifhw fotmd in bwemeat ef ments to review the size of their Central Secretariat existing districts from the point of view of efficient implementation of 3382. Shri H&rish Chandra Mattmr: development programmes. Where no Will the Minister of Work f, Housing change in the size of the district was and Supply be pleased to state: considered necessary, they might (a) whether any investigations have examine the possibility of establishing been made to ascertain facts regard­ more sub-divisions No suggestion was ing the stenographer of Finance Min­ made in regard to ihe jurisdiction of istry who was recently found in the the division1* basement of the Central Secretariat building; and (b) what steps, if any, have been Con ferences taken to stop such mishaps in future and to secure safety? 3381. Shri Subiman Ghose: Will the Minister of Rehabilitation and Mino­ The Minister of Works, Hoosing and rity Affairs be pleased to state: Supply (Shri K. C. Reddy): (a) Yes. (b) The door leading to the tunnel (a) the number of all India and has been provided with locking Zonal Conference of Chief Minis­ arrangements and the area in front of ters and Rehabilitation Ministers so the door well lighted and provided far held 1o discuss the problem of with a caution board bearing the rehabilitating displaced persons from words “Beware Duct below. Don’t East Pakistan: and open the door.”

(b) the decision:- taken in each huch Conference’ Dearness Allowance to Colliery Workers

The Minister of Rehabilitation and 3383. Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: Will the Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Ohand Minister of Labour and Employment Khanna): (at Six Conferences be pleased to state: (a ) whether the workers in the Coal Mines have been paid enhanced (b) For the mam decisions and re Dearness allowance of Rs. 4-14-0 per commendations of the conferences held month for the months of January in November. 1954, October, 1957 and and February, 1958, in terms of para January, 1958. attention is invited to 74 of Decision of the Labour Appel­ replies giver, to Starred Question No late Tribunal of India on Appeals 1132 dated 14th December, 1954, U n- against the nwnrd of All India Indus­ starred Question No. 760 dated 27th trial Tribunal (Colliery Disputes); November, 1957 and Unstarred Ques tion No. 696 dated 27th February, 1958 (b) if so. how many companies have respectively. The conference held in paid; and October, 1955 mainly discussed the problem of increase in influx, whereas (c) the steps taken or proposed to the conferences of January, 1956 and Ik * taken by Government for effective July, 1956 considered the problem of implementation of the award in this finding lands in States outside West regard? Bengal. In the Annual Reports of The Deputy Minister of Labour this M inistry for the years 1955-56, (Shri Abid All): (a) Not yet. 1956-57, copies of w hich have been (b) Does not arise. made available to all Members of Par­ liament, recommendations made by (c) It has been decided to con ven e these three latter conferences are a meeting of the interests concerned given. to settle the matter. i3<&33 Written Answers 7 MAY 1968 Written Answers 13634

"b u tts’* Minorities” spe cialists to Orissa State for making a scientific study of the Gramdan S384. Shri Bameahwar Tantia: Will Movement of Orissa; and -the M inister of Information and Broadcasting be pleased to state: (b) if so, how long the study will (a) whether it is a fact that a book continue? •entitled “India’s Minorities" was The Deputy Minister of Planning brought out in 1948; (Shri S. N. M ishra): (a) and (b). An (b) whether it is also a fact that officer in the Land Reforms Division the Jewish community of India was of the Planning Commission was sent not represented in this book; and to Koraput (Orissa) in June, 1957 for (c) if so, what is the reason of about 10 days to study the Gramdan omission of this community from this Movement in that district. On return, publication? he submitted n brief report

The Minister of Information and Showrooms and Sales-depots for Coir Broadcasting (Dr. Keskar): (a ) Y es. Products (b) Yes. 3387. Shri Kumaran: Will the Minis­ (c) The omission was due to the ter of Commerce ard Industry be fact that only numerically significant pleased to state; minorities (numbering more than one lakh in population) were specifically (a) how it.any Oioy. -rooms and taken up for discussion in the book sales-depots ha\e been established by which was not intended to be an ex­ the Coir Board !ur the popularisation haustive or scholarly treatment of the and sales of 1011- fcoods. and subject. (b) what if- the total value of goods According to the Census of 1941, the sold out from these sal<><-doposts dur total population of the Jewish com­ ing the year 1957-58'’ m unity in India was 22,480 only, and The Minister of Commerce and In­ hence it did not come within the scope dustry (Shri I.al Bahadur Shastri): of the book. (a) Three Show-room*; and Sales depots, one each at Delhi. Bombay and Displaced Persons in Salanpur Madras have been opened by the Coir Board. 3385. Shri Tangamani: Will th e Minister of Rehabilitation and Mino­ (b) Rs. 87,770 Ironi the Saies-depot rity Affairs be pleased to state: in Delhi. The depots at Bombay and (a) whether the displaced persons Madras were opened only towards the resettled in Salanpur in West Bengal end of March 1958 have deserted the settlement recently; and Coir Industry (b) if so, the reasons therefor? 3388. Shri Kama ran: Will the Minis­ The Minister of Rehabilitation and ter of Commerce and Industry be Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand pleased to state. Khanna): (a) No. (a) whether the attention oi Gov­ (b) Does not arise. ernment has been drawn to the recommendations made by “the Kerala Committee for the Stabilisation of Coir Oram dan Movement in Orissa Industry” and published in the June, 3386. Shri Sanganna: Will the 1957 issue of “Coir”, the quarterly Minister of Planning be pleased to journal of the Coir Board; and state: (b) it so, what is the reaction of (#7 whether it is .a fact that the Government to those recommenda­ Government of India have sent some tions? 13635 Written Answers 7 MAY 1958 Written Ansxoetd

The Minister of Commerce and In­ have been issued, but in the case o f dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastrl): certain categories of displaced per­ (a) Yes, Sir. sons, the assurances given by Shri N. V. Gadgil in Parliam ent are applic­ (b) These are recommendations of able. Even in the case of other cate­ an Ad Hoc Committee formed by the gories of displaced persons, wherever Kerala Government, and the State practicable, specific directions have Government will, no doubt, consider been issued regarding the provision of these recommendations made to them. alternative accommodation. The State Government may approach the Central Government on points (b) and (c). No. where they desire the matter to be considered by the Central Govern­ National Development Council ment. „ p1 ^Shri N. B. Munisamy; \ Shri Damani: Coir Board Will the Minister of Planning be 3389. Shri K um aran: Will the Minis­ pleased to state: ter of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that a meet­ ing of the National Development (a) whether Government have Council was held on the 3rd and 4th received the draft rules prepared by May, 1958; and the Rules Committee of the Coir Board for licensing of retting places; and (b) if so, the important subjects discussed and the decisions arrived (b) if so. what action has been at? taken thereon by Government? The Deputy Minister of Planning The Minister of Commerce and In­ (Shri S. N. Mishra): (a) Yes. dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (a) Yes, Sir. (b) The National Development Council discussed the following sub­ (b) They are under examination. jects:

Eviction of Displaced Persons 1. Appraisal and Prospects ot Second Five Year Plan. Shri B. C. Muliick: Shri Surendranath Dwivedi 2 . Revision of the Programme of Community Development. Will the Minister of Rehabilitation and Minority Affairs be pleased to 3. Arrangement for Development state: of Surplus Personnel in Major Projects in the Public and Pri­ (a) whether any instructions have vate Sectors. been issued to provide alternative accommodation before evicting dis­ A statement of the conclusions and placed persons from the public lands, recommendations of the National Government built properties and Development Council will be laid on evacuee properties in Delhi; the Table of the House in due course. (b) whether any cases of contraven­ tion of these instructions have been Loans to Punjab brought to the notice of Government; and 3393. Shri Daljit Singh: W ill th e M inister of Rehabilitation and Minority (c) whether these cases were A tta in b e pleased to state: investigated? (a) whether the Industrial Advisory The Minister of Rehabilitation and Committee of Relief and Rehabilita­ Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand tion Department ot Punjab have B a n ): (a) Mo general instructions requested for a loan for Small Seal* 13637 W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1958 W ritten Answers 13538

Ind ustries ru n by displaced persons; The Deputy Minister of Labour and (Shri Abid All); (a) Yes. (b) if so, the amount thereof and (b) Under the Scheme for the ex­ the details of Irtdustries? pansion of facilities for industrial training under the Second Five Year The Minister of Rehabilitation and Plan, sanctions have been issued for Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand the introduction of 674 additional Ktaanna): (a) and (b). The State seats at the various Industrial Train­ Governments have been authorised to ing Institutes/Centres in Punjab so sanction schemes of small/cottage in­ far. In Himachal Pradesh sanction dustries costing upto Rs. 10,000/5,000 has been issued for starting a new respectively. Schemes exceeding the Industrial Institute at Solan and 26 above amounts are referred to the additional seats for craftsmen have Central Government. The Tun jab been sanctioned. Details are given in Government asked for a loan of Rs. the statement laid on the Table of 1,31,650 for 37 schemes which they Lok Sibha. \See Appendix VIII. an­ considered were within their own nexure No. 148], Proposals for 476 powers and which were recommended more seat-; to be provided in Punjab bv the Inrtw‘-f**tal Advisory Commit­ are awaited from the Government of tee. On examination it was found Punjab. that only 25 schcmes were within their powers and accordingly a sum In addition, sanction has also been of Rs. 82,250 was sanctioned for those accorded for the introduction of 50- 25 schemes. As regards the remaining seats for the training of Industrial Workers in Evening Classes at Amrit 12 schemes further details were asked for from the State Government. A sar in Punjab. statement giving the details of the 25 WTO ?fTCTi jfa ftlW I schemes sanctioned is placed on the Table of Lok Sabha. [See A ppendix VIII. annexure No. 147. J

Export of Wool f^TT fo : 3393. Shri D aljlt Sinph: W ill the Minister of Commerce and Industry (sp) j r t v?, *r?r £ % be pleased to refer to the reply given stpb snr, ftrwr wnNrfoif to Unstarred Question No. 1418 on the 18th March, 1958 and state the spt f5TW H T O R ^ 5FJT new markets which have been recent­ irten PTFifa ^Rrr ly developed for the export of wool? fim Tfr | The Minister of Commerce and In­ dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (*r) ?t, 5TT % TOT U.S.S.R., West Germany, France and t ? Sweden. wr«r;fT Industrial Training in Punjab and ( « r n .'im ( t ) u f ^ Himachal Pradesh fa trns ?frcrr srs fwm S3ML Shri Daljit Singh: Will the f e w Minister of Labour and Employment * tTTOT fK T R «? f ^ ^ T W M be pleased to state: % i i (a) whether it is a fact that schemes for enlarging the scope for industrial («) VTOT ftrWT * training in Punjab and Himachal Pra­ desh have been finalised by the Gov­ ernment of India; and * %RR ^>T ST^r ^ I fip ** 5^ ' (b) if so*, the details thereof? vihrrfrarf * 13639 W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1958 Written Answers 13640

bedded infectious ward hospital ex- clusively for camp inmates at Bet- q-T I ^ tiah. In addition, there is a dispensary ^TTrr % srrtT^ft in Kumarbagh. An ambulance has also been provided for carrying pati- ( xMigratory) W WIXt W^ ents from different parts of the camp to the hospitals. w q -r , Primary schools for boys and girls ?rni: ^Fs'qi to ftrfrw ^ ? e.v ^ are functioning in the camp. Arrange- ments have also been made for the % % ^ w f e r f education of post-primary students in "TX W m ^ f w W «TT I the neighbouring basic school and «TT ^ ^ the students are allowed freeships and book grants. The number of high ^ ?T school going students in the camp is ?«rFff'TT'EJ'T^^ very small—^not justifying opening of a separate High School for them. ^ «rr, !F«rFftir wsTrfcjff ^ ^ ^r ?tt ' T ? ^ «TT I ? ^vs, # f^iTT^ :fra- T3[fr »rt ^ q^iT : w r f=nTFT % 'TT ^rw ftTqT tPTT ?ftT ffsn ^ f ?T% ^3T?T^ ^fr |Tqr % : ^ T f W F f f T ? : ^ f w W «TT I ^ ^ TT ^ (¥;■) 5Tf «f)- q r f? iw r tt^ t ^ f t ; ;^rref ^ ^ i w r ?pfr ?fiTfrrf^ school have been opened at Kumair- bagh? ^ I ' TT^^r g r ^ f f % improvement in the subsequent period. ^ q 'fg % 5)7#-^ ^TT^l (b) Information regarding the num- ber of public and private companies tTgd^ t I registered during the last three years,, A.I.R. at Cuttack viz. 1955-56, 1956-57 and 1957-58, is as. follows:—■ 3398. Shri Sanganna; Will the Minis- ter of Information and Broadcasting Public Private Total be pleased to refer to the reply given companies companies to Unstarred Question .No. 980 on the 29th August, 1957 in respect of the 1955-56 186 1262 1448. A.I.R., Cuttack and state: 1956-57 84 764 848: (a) whether language programmes for the Adivasis have been introduced 1957-58 56 896 961 in the programmes of the Station; and (c) Among the reasons for the' (b) if so, since when? decline in the number of new regis- trations during 1956-57 was the reluc- The Minister of Information and tance on the part of company pro- Broadcasting (Dr. Keskar): (a) and moters to form companies in the pre- (b). The Hon’ble Member is presum- vailing economic climate during this, ably referring to the Unstarred Ques- period. The exaggerated apprehen- tion No. 980 answered on the 28th sions caused by the enforcement of the August, 1957. As indicated in my new Companies Act may have also' reply to part (a) of that question, Cut- been a contributory cause in the first: tack Station is already broadcasting half of 1956-57. feature progsrammes for Adivasis, R e- gular progi-ammes for Adivasi areas (d) No special steps are necessary,, will, however, be included in the pro- as the number of companies regis- grammes of Cuttack Station when the tered has since been showing a rising- new 20 k.w. m.w. transmitter, in- trend. stallation of which is nearing comple- Tourists who visited Foreign tion, goes on the air. Countries Registered Companies 3400. Shri Daljit Singh: W ill the- Prime Minister be pleased to state: 3399. Shri Achar: Will the Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased (a) the number of Indian tourists to state: who went abroad during 1957-58; and (b) the names of countries visited' (a) whether there is a considerable by them during the same period? decline in the number of companies registered, both public and private The Prime Minister and Minister limited, since the middle of 1956; of External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Ne^iru): (a) and (b). This informa- (b) what is the number of the said tion is not available at present and it companies registered in 1955-56, 1956- is exceedingly difficult to collect it. 57, 1957.58; Even with the best efforts on our part, (c) what are the reasons for the correct information will not be avail- decline in their number; and able. I t 6 Written Answers 7 MAY 1958 W ritten Answers 13644

B ih ar Cotton Mills, Ptralwarisluurif (d) what were the recommendations of the Planning Commission Confer­ $401. Shri Anirudh Sinha: Will the ence to this effect? Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: The Deputy Minister of Planning (a) w hether it is a fact, that the (Shri S. N. Misra): (a) to (d). A Bihar Cotton Mills at Phulwarisharif statement is laid on the Table of the Lok Sabha. [See Appendix VIII, have given notice of closure with effect from the 3 5th April, 1958; and atm exure No. 149,] (b) if so, the reasons therefor? Spinning Mills for Displaced Persons The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): 3404. Shri Panigrahi: W ill the Minis­ (a) Yes, Sir. Bihar cotton mills at ter of Rehabilitation and Minority Phulwarisharif had given notice of Affairs be pleased to state: closure with effect from 15-4-1953 but (a) whether the scheme for setting subsequently the Management have up spinning mills for industrial reha­ deferred closure for another month. bilitation of displaced persons are (b) According to the mill manage­ still in operation; ment, the working of the mill has (b) whether loans were advanced to become uneconomic and unremunera- industrialists for starting industries tive on account of a lack of intcreit capable of employing an all-refugee of the consuming public in the type of staff; and c'oth produced by this mill (c) the number of industries started Land in Delhi under the scheme? 3402. Shri (t. C. Mnllicfc: Will the The Minister of Rehabilitation and Minister of Planning be plersed to Minority Affairs (Shri Mohr ('hand state the number of tenant*, who have K hanna): (a) Yes. I presume that voluntarily surrendered their land in the hon. Member is referring to such the Delhi Territory since 1954'' schemes in the Eastern Sector. The Deputy Minister of Planning fb) Yes, on the condition of employ­ (Shri S. N. M ishral: The information ing the entire unskilled, and as many it; being collected and will be placed as possible skilled workers from on the Table of the Lok Sabha as soon amongst displaced persons. as it is received (c) Schemes for starting sevea Electrification of Railways spinning mills have been sanctioned. 3403. Shri Panigrahi: Will the Minis­ ter of P lanning be pleased to state: Printing; Errors in Official Pubttcattoas (a) whether the Planning Commis­ f Shri C. K. Bhattacharyya: sion had convened a conference on the ' \ Shri S. C. Sam anta: 8 th April, 1958 to discuss the power needs for carrying out electrification Will the Minister of Works, Hoafltag programme of Railways in Eastern and Supply be pleased to state: India; (b) what is the estimated expendi­ (0) whether Government are aware ture for setting up two thermal plants of the prevalence of errors in official at Dugda, which are to be set with the publications including the Gazette of 'Soviet aid; India, necessitating frequent issue of correction slips for many of them; and (c) what are the different sources •from which the power needs are going (b) if so, what steps are being take* r»© be met; and to improve this state of things? ^3645 Written Answers 7 MAY 1958 Written Answers 13646

The Minister for Works, Housing and Supply (Shri K., C. Reddy): (a) The arrors in official publications includ- { ^ ) irF? ^ a'r ^ frr ing the Gazette of India generally do not occur under normal circumstances. I r The errors which necessitate issue of corrections slips are attributable to;— sTHT'?:-n- M i: (i) supply of defective manuscripts ( t *) ^rl-T (’^ ). sriferTg-q^ and substantial alterations carried out by the indentors at proof stage; s!'^rf

( ^ ) t (d) It is not correct that medical, benefits have been stopped. Nor,, ^ ^>?nifoTr ^ have their increments been stopped. =P> ?Tfr # i t r f . ^ The fixation of their scale of pay under Delhi Administration is under m : % % consideration. w r =Pt (e) Pending the fixation of scales of sq -^ T # 3TTd^ t ^«rr pay, formal orders of appointment 'TTf^TdT'if # iR ^ r f f # iT f have not been issued. But, they have been allowed to continue to draw % 2TT I % their existing emoluments. f?r^ 3fH ^ ^ •>ft t?ff ^ Atomic Fuels ??W?Trf#5FT ffTr I 3410. Shri Ghosal: W ill the Primes be pleased to state whether- *ft^ri[feff ^ ?it m f ?rk Minister Government are in a position to' % f5T> W ^5T 5fT#iT '■ reprocess the atomic fuels into nuclear fuels in our country? Training Centres in Delhi The Prime Minister and Minister' 3409 ^ Shrimati Renu Chakravartty of External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal \ Shri S. M. Banerjee: Nehru): The question is not clear as: the terms “atomic fuels” and “nuclear- Will the Minister of Labour and fuels” are synonymous. A small: Employment be pleased to state: uranium plant, which will turn' uranium concentrates into reactor- (a) how many employees working grade uranium metal, is under con- in the Training Centres in Delhi under struction and is likely to go into the Directorate General of Resettle- operation by the end of the year. ment and Employment, Ministry of Natural uranium contains about G'7' Labour have been given notices of per cent, of the fissionable isotope- termination of service; uranium-235 and hence can be used' (b) whether it is a fact that the directly as nuclear fuel in reactors. Training Centres continue under the If, however, the question refers tc Delhi Administration; the periodic reprocessing of the fuel elements and breeder blankets in> (c) whether the employees have nuclear reactors, the position is that continued their service under them; the setting up of facilities for the (d) whether it is a fact that their separation of plutonium and fission increment and medical benefit has products from irradiated uranium and- been stopped; and for the recovery of U-233 from' thorium breeder blankets are under (e) whether any appointment letter, active consideration. stating pay and terms of employment has been given to the employees? s rt5T) W.1 r^^JT- The Deputy Minister of Labour (Shri Abid Ali); (a) 153, consequent on the transfer of administration of Training Centres to Delhi Administra- H«fT ^ Mon with effect from 1-11-1956. : (b) Yes. (=p) ^ (c) Yes, except those who expressed their unwillingness to continue ser- vice under Delhi Administration. ^ ^ faRT?rr p r ; Written Answers 7 MAY 1858 Written Answers 13650

' (nr) % m v -s v r’j offered to these societies, is, however, under consideration of Government. ?pr stfkr *nr £ ; tfp- Low Income Group Housing Scheme (n ) «PTT S?T ifTT'TR ^ ^rsT'-T'TT 3413. Sardar A. S. Saigal: Will the fen snm £ ' Minister of Works, Housing and Sop- ply be pleased to state: m%war ?wt =twV t *»w. (wr. « w (a) whether it is a fact that only 4tn$t ) (f?) v 23241 houses were built under the fiFTRT'Trt ^ *r»? ■< i-v ,= t ^ Low Income Group Housing Scheme ■gm vr toil q»T ^FT fo'TFT'TT^f upto the end of 1957 as against the target of 68,000 houses for the Second ^ t ^sn 1 Plan Period; and («r) ?TF (»T). ^ (b) the steps taken by Government f ^ r ^ r st^ t ^Ti*re *r i^r/f rff for the speedy execution of the scheme? Tjf)- £ ( Low Income Group Housing Scheme The Deputy Minister of Works, in Delhi Housing and Supply (Shri Anil K. Chanda): (a) Out of 23,241 houses 3412. Sardar A. S. Saigal: Will the built under the Low Income Group Minister of Works. Housing and Sup­ Housing Scheme since its inception m ply be pleased to state: November, 1954, 19,269 houses were (a) whether it is a fact that good completed from April, 1956, to progress could not be* made under the December, 1957, against the Second Low Income Group Housing Scheme Plan target of 68,000 houses. In addi­ in Delhi due to the requisitioning of tion, another 13,427 houses were under land by Government during 1957 construction as on the 31st December, which was originally allotted to co­ 1957. operative housing societies; and (bj Steps hitherto taken by Govern­ (b) if so, the steps taken by Gov­ ment, for speedy execution of the ernment to rehabilitate these societies Scheme, inter alia include: either on the original plots not utilised for pubtic purpose or in some other (i) permitting the State Govern­ plots? ments to build houses under the Scheme for giving on rent The Deputy Minister of Works, to eligible persons; Housing and Supply (Shri Anil K. Chanda): (a) Not all the housing co­ (ii) permitting public institutions, operative societies affected by the run on a no-proflt-no-los^ acquisition of land consist of persons basis, to censtruct houses fo,r belonging to jow income groups. It housing their low-paid staff; is also doubtful whether all those who and were affected by the acquisition and (iii) increasing the ceiling loan- were eligible for assistance would assistatice, admissible to local have asked for loans under the Low bodies under the Scheme, from Income Group Housing Scheme, if Rs. 2,800/3,600 to Rsi 8,000 their land had not been acquired by per house. Government. Silk Yarn (b) It is not obligatory on the part of Government to provide alternative 3414. Shri Rameshwar Tantia: Will sites to societies whose land has been the Minister of Commerce and Indus­ requisitioned for a public purpose. try be pleased to state: The question whether any alternative (a) whether it is a fact that a new sites are available which could be technique for the manufacture of Silk 1365 r W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1958 Written Answers *3«3»

Y arn has been found in the Kashmir have been manufactured by "RAY State; and SONDE Bendix Friez Instrument Divi­ sion, Bendix Aviation Corporation, (b) if so, the details thereof? U.S.A.’’ These instruments normally The Minister of Commerce and have a tag giving the address to Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): which they have to be returned but (a) No, Sir. in none of the instruments found in Tripura was this tag found intact. (b) It is not a new technique that has been found for manufacture of While in the air, the instrument is silk yarn, but a new variety of tassar supposed to operate as a radio trans­ silk worms of the Antherea type feed­ mitter of the atmospheric temperature, ing on leaves of zizyphus trees which pressure and moisture. When the are available in abundance in the balloon bursts, it comes down to the southern region of Jammu and earth with the help of a parachute. Kashmir State. According to the pre­ liminary investigations made by the Khadi and Village Industries in State Government, the yarn produced Punjab from the new variety of tassar coccoons is superior to tassar yarn produced 3416. Shri Daljit Singh: Will the ■elsewhere in the country, in tenacity Minister of Commerce and Industry and elasticity. It is, however, likely be pleased to state: to take sometime before large scale production can be undertaken. (a) whether any steps have been taken to improve the Khadi and Bursting of Balloon in Tripura Village Industries in the State of Punjab; and „ f Shri Dasaratha Deb: \ Shri Haider: (b) if so, the details thereof? Will the Prime Minister be pleased The Minister of Commerce and to state: Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (a) Yes, Sir. (a) whether it is a fact that a burst balloon with a light machine bearing (b) The Government of India act­ inscription of “United State” was ing through the Khadi and Village found in a village of Telimura (Tri­ Industries Commission, and the State p ura) on the 11th April. 1958; and Government have adopted various (b) if so, the details thereof? measures for the development of khadi and other-village industries in the The Prime Minister and Minister Punjab State. These measures mainly External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal concern production and marketing and Kehru): (a) to (b). A burst balloon the training of personnel. The State With a weather instrument known as Government have constituted a “Radiosonde” was found in village statutory Khadi and Village Indus­ Dharmanagar under Telimura P.S. tries Board which is responsible for Khowai Sub-division, Tripura on the the development of these industries in 6 th April, 1958, Three more such that State. As elsewhere in the coun­ instruments have also been found in try, these industries are assisted finan­ villages Attapra in Sonamura Sub­ cially and otherwise in several ways, division, Sonamura in Sadar Sub­ the more important of which are as division and Anandabazar in Kailash- follows:— ahar Sub-division. These instruments have on them a printed notice to the (I) Khadi (including Ambar): effect that the instrument is the pro­ (i) Grant of interest-free loans perty of the U.S. Government to and subsidy to production whom its return is requested. They centres. W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1956 Written Answers 33653 13654 (ii) Subsidised supply of charkhas The Central Government have pro­ to spinners. vided financial assistance for the deve­ lopment of khadi and village indus­ (iii) Grant of subsidy to spinners tries to the State the Punjab who spin for their own use (V astrasw alam bis). between 1953-54 and 1957-58 totalling Rs. 1,12,07,510 in grants and (iv) Payment of a rebate to con­ Rs. 1,29,63,989 in loans, either directly sumers on the retail sale of to the State Government or to the khadi. various agencies operating in the State. (v) Training programmes for Handicrafts in Punjab and Himachal spinners, instructors and tech­ Pradesh nicians (mistries). 3417. Shri D aljit Singh: Will the (vi) Financial assistance for the Minister of Commerce and Industry establishment of emporia. be pleased to state: (vii) Holding of spinning competi­ (a) whether it is a fact that a tions, exhibitions etc. scheme has been approved for the (II) Village Industries: setting up of a training-cum-produc- (i) Training programmes to intro­ tion centre and a demonstration-cum- service centre for different handi­ duce better methods of pro­ duction., improved implements crafts in Punjab and Himachal Pra­ etc. desh; and (b) if so, the details ftiereof? (ii) Subsidised supply of equip­ The Minister of Commerce and m ent etc. Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Sbastri): (iii) Setting up of model centnas. (a) No such scheme has been received for Himachal Pradesh. Two schemes (iv) Payment of production and for setting up training-cum-production sale subsidies to reduce the centres in the Punjab, have, however, price differential between the been sanctioned and these are under products of the organised implementation. sector and the cottage sector. (b) Brief details of these schemes (v) Grant of loans on easy terms. are as follows:—

Name of scheme Amount sanctioned Remarks

Grant Loan Rs. Rs. Establishment of a training-c;600 6,500 The scheme envisages organisa- improvement training centre at Kulu. tion of a cooperative society of existing artisans whicn would be given technical assis- tance for improving and de- veloping the quality of pro- ducts.

Development Works in Border Areas the district Kangra of Punjab and 3418. Shri Daljit Slurb: Will the Himachal Pradesh with the help of the Minister of Planning be pleased to am ount of Rs. 36 6 lakhs spent during refer to the reply given to Unstarred the First Five Year Plan for the deve­ Question No. 1848 on the 18th Decem­ lopment of Tibetan border areas? ber, 1957 and state the development The Deputy Minister of Planning works executed in the border areas of (Shri S. N. Mishra): The expenditure 15655 W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1958 W ritten Answers 13656 of Rs. 86-6 lafctas incurred on the deve­ The Minister of Commerce and In­ lopment schemes related to the Indo- dustry (Start Lai Bahadur Staastrt): (a) Tibetan Border areas in Uttar Pradesh and (b). Yes, Sir. The Punjab Gov­ and. not in Punjab and Himachal ernment have a tentative target of set­ Pradesh. ting up 1,800 industrial co-operative societies during the period of Second Refugee Schools Five Year Plan as per details given below: 3119. Shri D aljit Singh: Will the Minister of Rehabilitation and M inority Affairs be pleased to state: Names of Industry No. of co­ (a) the total amount of grant-in-aid operative so­ given to refugee schools in the coun­ cieties to be try so far; and set up (b) the number of such schools in Punjab? (1) Handlootn weavers’ in­ The Minister of Rehabilitation and dustrial co-operatives 400 Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand Khanna ): (a) Rs. 1,06,34,791 in the (2; Silk-worm rearers’ so­ cieties .... Western region. 20 (b) 208. (3J Handicrafts societies :

(a) Women’s home crafts 230 \ Squatters Colonies in Punjab (b) Others 50 J 280

3429. Shri Daljit Singh: Will the (4 ) Small-scale industries Minister of Rehabilitation and Mino­ societies : rity Affairs be pleased to state: (a) Leather goods 650 ) (a) the number of squatters colonies (b) Engineering 100 800 of displaced persons at present in Cc) Others <0 J Punjab; and (<;) Khadi and village in­ (b) the number of such colonies dustries societies : regularised by Government so far? (a) Leather (Tanning, cic). 100 1 The Minister of Rehabilitation and (b) Khadi (yarn) 30 ^300 Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand rc) Others 170 J Khanna): (a) and (b). There may be cases of squatting in Punjab but there are no recognised colonies of squatters. Silk Factories

Ind ustrial Co-operative Societies in 3422. Shri Daljit Singh: Will the Punjab Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: 3421. Shri D aljit Singh: Will the (a) the number of silk factories in Minister of Commerce and Industry the country State-wise; and be pleased to state: (b) their location and annual out­ (a) whether Government have a put from 1955 to 1957? proposal to establish more Industrial Co-operative Societies in Punjab to The Minister of Commerce and In­ provide employment in the State; and dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (a) There are eighteen factories for pro­ (b) if so, the nature and details duction of filature raw silk including thereof? one spun silk mill for production a t *36 57 W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1958 Written Answers spu n silk yarn. The Statewise distri­

Retrenchment of Workers of M «|n«lte (c) the steps Government propose Syndicate Ltd. to take to expedite the same? The Deputy Minister for Labour mot / Shri Tangamani: ^ Shli s. M. Banerjee: (Shri Abid Ali): (a) A report dealing with the conditions of labour in iron Will the Minister of Labour and ore mines including those of contract Employment be pleased to state: labour has been published in the March 1958 issue of the Indian Labour . (a) whether a large number of Gazette. workers of Magnesite Syndicate Ltd. in the Magnesite mines in Salem, (b) and (c). Do not arise. Madras State, have been retrenched; Newsprint (b) whether there was protest ac­ tion by the workers; and f Shri Tangamanl: s u ^ Shri S. M. Banerjee: (c) what action has been taken for absorbing the retrenched workers? Will the Minister of Commerce and The Deputy Minister of Labour (Shri Industry be pleased to state: Abid Ali): (a) to (c). According to (a) whether Newspapers have sup­ information received, the dispute has plied additional information regard­ been amicably settled. ing newsprint requirements for the C.P.W.D current year; 3428. Shri Easwara Iyer: Will the (b) whether any additional faci­ Minister of Works, Housing and Supply lities will be extended to small daily be pleased to state: newspapers in regional languages; and (a) the names of circles under different zones of the Central Public (c) what is the additional quota Works Department; and proposed to be given to the small dailies? (b) the names of Divisions under the different circles? The Minister of Commerce and In­ dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (a) The Deputy Minister of Works, It is presumed that the Hon’ble Mem­ Housing and Supply (Shri Anil K. bers are referring to additional infor­ Chanda), (a) and b). Two lists con­ mation called for from Newspapers in taining the names of Circles under the Ministry of Commerce and Indus­ different zones and the names of the try Public Notice No. 26-ITC(PN)/58, Divisions under different circles are dated the 15th April, 1958, a copy of placed on the table of the Lok which is also laid on the Table of Sabha. fSee Appendix VIII, annex- Lok Sabha. [See appendix VIII, an- ure No. 151]. nexure No. 152], If so, the answ er to this part of the question is that some Survey of Labour Conditions in Iron of the Newspapers have supplied the Ore Mines additional information called for. 3429. Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: Will the Others are expected to supply the Minister of Labour and Employment additional information when they act­ b e pfteesed to refer to th^e reply ually make applications for licences. given to Unstarred Question No. 192 (b) and (c). The requirements of on the 23rd July, 1957 and state: all Newspapers are calculated on a (a) when the report of the survey uniform basis depending on circulation, of conditions of contract labour in number of pages and page area. Iron-Ore mines will be published. Licences for Newsprint are issued with a cut of 15 per cent. In the cue of (b) the reasons for the delay; and small Newspapers having less than It W ritten Answers a I3 6 6 1 Written Answers 7 MAY 1958 1366

fnn s of Newsprint per half year no national and international affairs and cut is imposed and their entire require­ ability to produce a script which con­ ments are met. forms 1 1 All India Radio's standards of accuracy and objectivity. Small Scale Industries in Punjab (b) Originally a trial was made of 3431. Shri Daljlt Singh: W ill the getting leading correspondents in Delhi Minister of Commerce and Industry be to do this turn by turn. This was not pleased to state: found satisfactory. Commentators were engaged after that on a trial (a) whether it is a fact that a basis. In view of the fact that no satis­ systematic study of the conditions of factory arrangements have been possi­ small scale industries in the Punjab ble, the post has now beeh advertised State has been made by the Central and it is proposed to select a suitable investigation team constituted in July, candidate from amongst those who 1955; and come forward on the basis of the (b) if so, whether any recommenda­ qualifications as outlined in part (a) tions have been made for small scale of the question. industries in Ludhiana and Amritsar to obtain credit facilities from the ‘Ajkal* State Bank of India under the “Pilot 3433. Shri Ansar Harvani: W ill the Scheme” ? Minister of Information and Broadcast­ The Minister of Commerce and In­ ing be pleased to state: dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastrt): (a) (a) whether it is a fact that the Systematic study of a number of journal ‘Ajkal’ has considerable de­ small scale industries in the Punjab mand in Pakistan; and State has been made. (b) what other publications of the (b) Recommendations for obtaining Government of India have a demand credit facilities from the State Bank of in Pakistan? India under the “Pilot Scheme” have been made in respect of the Hosiery The Minister of Information Broadcasting (Dr. Keskar): (a) and industry in Ludhiana only to begin (b). ‘Ajkal’ (Urdu) had an appre­ with. ciable demand in Pakistan but due to the present import restrictions, the Commentator on Parliamentary demand has been going down. Other Affairs Publications have not had such a 3432. Shri Ansar Harvani: Will the damand. Minister of Information and Broadcast­ ing be pleased to state: Import of Tractors (a) what is the procedure of the 3434. Shri L. A chaw Singh: Will the selection of the staff artist who gives Minister of Commerce and Industry be commentary on Parliamentary Affairs; pleased to state: and (a) what is the number of tractors (b) in the last two years how many imported during the years 1956, 1957 commentators were selected and and 1958, so far for the River Valley changed? Projects and other requirements; and The Minister of Information and (b) what is the amount of foreign Broadcasting (Dr. Keskar): (a) Parlia­ exchange involved? mentary commentators in All India Radio are selected on the basis of their The Minister of Commerce and In­ journalistic experience, particularly dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shasta): (a) coverage of parliamentary and legisla­ and (b). The information regarding tive business, knowledge of current tractors imported for the River Valley 13663 W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1958 Written Auruws 13664

Pro jects pud other iwniirements it n ot ned to start in the near future, have available "separately. However, a not yet been initiated. However statement showing number and value fundamental work on the effect* of of agricultural tractors imported dur­ radiation on the chromosomes of ing 1955-56, 1966-57 (April—December animal tumours is in progress. 1966) and Jan u ary —Novem ber 1957 is laid on the Tabic of Lok Sabha. [See Cement Prices Appendix VIII, annexure No. 158]. 3436. Shri Khintfi: Will the M inister Information beyond November 1957 is of Commerce and Industry be pleased not yet available. to state: I Effects of Radiation, (a) the date on which the represen* tations were submitted to Govern­ 3435. Shri L. Achaw Singh: WiH the ment by the manufacturers of cement frim* Minister be pleased to state: urging increase in the statutory prices (a) whether his attention has been paid to them and the date on which drawn to a statement made by Prof. the matter was referred to the Tariff J. B. S. Haldane, the British Biologist Commission; on the 15th February, 1958, at Cal­ if so, what are the decisions? Kxternal Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal The Minister of Commerce and In­ N ehru): radiation representations wore received from are too well established 1o require con­ sume maiiuf.'ictui eiurging increase in firmation. Such experiments are being the .statutory pi ices and the matter was carried out by several Indian scientists referred to the Tariff Commission in independently m Bombay, New Delhi January, 1957 and Calcutta, using several plant (b) to (e) The Tariff Commission’s species. A substantial part of research Report was received in March, 1958 activities 111 the Biology Division of the and it is under examination. Atomic Energy Establishment, Trorn- bay, is directed towards inducing here­ ditary and chromosomal changes in plant germ cells by means of radiation. (c) Permanent hereditary changes (mutation), both beneficial and dele­ w

conditions and in response to local ( n ) # v r w ftfi * 7 * r m needs. ft ; (e) and (d>. The term land problem ' ( « r ) ?*r f«rrT ^ | ? sarily related to the conditions prevail­ ing in each State. The solution of this- smw **. sr7 »f ^Tf sfar^r may in some aspects have to be extend­ ed beyond the Second Plan period. f. 1 Rayon Pulp Factory in Kerala (wr) '3vTr ^ (*;) ^rr ^ 3439. Shri Jinachandran: Will the* f 7. WZ *r«T'R' TTTT I Minister of Commerce and Industry fee pleased to state: ( ’T) SEP'T^T—5FTJT ’TPF? *pT>T (a) whether there is a proposal to | 1 w zw , rrm mjrm fkm sn^r I set up a Rayon Pulp factory in f% ■>tp7t scrrr Trfr^TR trr^ ?rm Kerala; and €r *t*itt ^ht *rR $ 1 (b) if so, the details thereof? ( '-T) 7.T» sp {5f) *PT '^JR »T The Minister of Commerce and In­ ^-T frr rj-^r ^ f T7Tr , dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (a) and (b) M/s. Gwalior Rayon Silk Manufacturing (Weaving) Co. Ltd., Land Reformers Nagda (Madhya Pradesh): propose to establish a Rayon Pulp Factory at 3438. / Shri K C Jena: )_ Shri N. R Munisamy: Bey pore (Kerala State) with an annual capacity of 36,000 tons. The estimated Will the Minister of P la n n in g be cost of the plant is Rs 5 i-rores and pleased to Mate; the factory is expectcd to go into pro­ duction by the end of 1961 (a) Which of lilt' StiiU'.s have ox- ptessed I hen- willingness to take up Central Government Offices the question of land reform in their States before the completion of the 3440 Shri Thanu Pillai: Will the Second Five Year Plan period; Minister of Works, Housing; and Supply be pleased to slate; (b) whether there is ;iny similarity of basis on which those States want (a) the number of Centra) Govern­ to solve the question of land reform; ment Offices located in private build­ ings in Tirunelveli District. Madras (e) which are the States are not State; prepared to solve the land problem (b) the rent paid for these build­ within this plan period; and ings; and (d) the reasons therefor? fc) the difference in rent compared to other buildings of similar type in The Deputy Minister of Planning the locality'' (Shri S. N. M ishra): (a) All States. (b) Yes The recommendations The Deputy Minister of Worits, Hous­ made in the Second Plan, which are in ing and Supply 'S h ri Anil K. Chanda): the nature of a broad common ap­ (a) to (c). According to information proach, are being adapted and puTsued available, the C.P.W.D., which is res­ is each State with due regard to local ponsible for hiring accommodation for Written Answers 7 MAY 1958 W ritten Answers X$£6ff

Cen tral Government offices in places have been introduced in the country where there are no Estate Officers or are lying idle; Managers of the Government o i India; (b) if so, the reasons therelor; and has not hired any private building in the Tirunelveli District of the Madras (c) what steps Government propose State. There may be some building to take to utilize them? that has been hired by a Central De­ partment directly, as is permissible in The Minister of Commerce and In­ an emergency, but no information is dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shtttri): (a) immediately available. On an average about 5 lo 7 per cent, of Ambar Charkhas distributed so far are idle. Indian Statistical Institute (b) The reasons are the difficulties 3441. Dr. Ram Subhay Singh: Will experienced in servicing the charkhas the Prime Minister be pleased to state: as a follow-up measure and in obtain­ ing supply of requisite raw materials (a) what financial help the Gov­ such as raw cotton etc. ernment of India have so far rendered to the Indian Statistical Institute, Cal­ (c) The Khadi and Village Industries cutta; and Commission is accelerating the provi­ (b) whether Government have any sion of facilities to cover the gaps and has already instructed the institutions representative on the Board of Man­ to take active steps to utilise the agement of this Institute? Ambar Charkhas wherever they are The Prime Minister and Minister of lying idle. External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): (a) The Government of India U. N. Map gave financial assistance to the Indian Statistical Institute, Calcutta, first in / Shri Vajpayee: .the year 1935. The grants-in-aid to ‘ \ Shri Mohan Swarup: the Institute increased substantially Will the Prime Minister be pleased when the work relating to tabulation to refer to the reply given to Starred of National Sample Survey data was Question No. 313 on the 19th Febru­ entrusted to it by the Government. ary, 1958 and state: Between 1955-56 and 1957-58 finan­ (a) whether the matter in regard cial assistance amounting to to India’s objection to the position of Rs. 2,13,49,096 was given to the Insti­ Kashmir on the U.N. map had been tute by the Government. satisfactorily ended; and (b) Government have no representa­ (b) if so, in what manner? tion on the Council of the Institute The Prime Minister and Minister of but are represented on some of the External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal other bodies of the Institute, viz., the Nehru): (a) and (b). No, Sir. The Governing Body and the Finance Com­ subject is still under discussion bet­ mittee of the Research and Training ween our Permanent Representative School, and the Board of Directors of and the U.N’. Secretariat. the Internationa] Statistical Education Centre being run at the Institute. Pakistanis employed in India Ambar Charkhas 3444 Shri Vajpayee: Will the Prime 3442. Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: Will Minister be pleased to refer to the the Minister of Commerce and Industry reply given to Unstarred Question fce pleased to state: No. 895 on the 27th February, 1958 ana state: (a) whether it it a fact that a (a) whether the cases of twenty-one number of Amb«r Charkhas which Pakistani nationals who had tik n 1 3 6 6 9 W ritten Answers 7 MAY 195B Written Answert, 1367^

up employment in Delhi in contra­ The Deputy Minister of Labour (Shri vention of visa rules have been decid­ Abid All): (a) Yes. ed; and (b) The matter is under examination. (b) if so, the nature of the decision? Fertilizer Factories The Prime Minister and Minister of External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal 3448. Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: Will Nehru:): (a) and (b). Out of 21 the Minister of Commerce and Industry Pakistani nationals, 18 have since left be pleased to refer to the reply given for Pakistan. The cases of the re­ to Starred Question No. 1051 on the maining 3 Pakistani nationals are still 18th March, 1958 and state whether under consideration. any plans have been submitted to Gov­ Indians repatriated from British ernment for the establishment of some Colonies fertilizer factories in the Private Sector? 3446. Or. Ram Subhag Singh: Will the Prime Minister be pleased to state: The Minister of Commerce and In­ (a) the number of Indians who dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): were repatriated by the British No, Sir. Government have not so far authorities in 1957-58 from British received any concrete proposal for the colonies to India; setting up of a nitrogenous fertilizer factory in the Private Sector. (b) the names of the colonies from -which they were repatriated; and Hindustan Antibiotics (Private) Ltd. (c) how those repatriated persons are being settled in India? 3449. Shri N. R. Munlsamy: Will the The Prime Minister and Minister of Minister of Commerce and Industry External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal be pleased to state: Nehru): (a) and (b). The information asked for is not available in the Minis­ (a) the total production of penicillin try of External Affairs and it will be at the Hindustan Antibiotics (Private) Ltd., Pimpri during 1957 and in the very difficult to get any complete in­ formation on the subject as we do not first quarter of 1958; have representation in all British colo­ (b) whether the sales during the nies. above period have been encouraging; (c) Repatriates from British colonies (c) what is the requirement of make use of the existing organizations penicillin in the country and whether e.g. the employment exchanges, to the installed capacity of the plant will settle themselves. meet the requirements;

Minimum Wages Act (d) if not, what steps have been taken for expansion; and 3447. Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: W ill the Minister of Labour and Employ­ (e) when India would be self- ment be pleased to state: supporting in these antibiotics? (a) whether there is any proposal The Minister of Commerce and In­ before Government to extend the dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): provisions of the Minimum Wages Act (a) January to December, 1957— to mines and quarries not already 19 23 million mega units of sterile covered by it; and bulk penicillin.

(b) if so, whether Government have January to March, 1958—7-29 m il­ considered that proposal and arrived lion mega units of sterile bulk penicil­ a t a n y decision? lin. 1367 r W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1858 W ritten Answers 13672

(b) Yes, Sir. Gross sales figures are ment of India with the Government as follows:— of Pakistan asking for the immediate 1957—Rs. 127-75 lakhs. release of the kidnapped Indian nationals. January—March, 1958—Rs. 74-61 lakhs. Minor Irrigation Works in Pondicherry (c) and (d). The present estimat­ ed annual requirements of Penicillin 3451. Shri Elayaperum al: Will th e are 50 million mega units as against Prime Minister be pleased to state the the present installed capacity at amount sanctioned by the Centre for Pimpri of 25 million mega units. The the year 1956-57 for m inor irrigation capacity is under expansion and the works in Pondicherry? Company may be expected to pro­ The Prime Minister and Minister of duce about 40 million mega units External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal during 1959-60. The balance is ex­ N ehru): Rs. 85,534. pected to be produced by two private firms who have also licences for peni­ Import of Fruits cillin production. 3452. Shri Hem Raj: Will the Minis­ (e) Effort is being made to make ter of Commerce and Industry be India self-sufficient in penicillin and pleased to state: in some of the other important anti­ biotics also during the current plan (a) w hether it is a fact that Gov­ period. ernment have allowed imports of fresh fruits from Afghanistan re­ Abduction of Indians by Pakistani cently; and Forces (b> if so, the quantity thereof? 3450. Shri N. R, Munisamy: Will the The Minister of Commerce and In­ Prime Minister bo pleased to state: dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (a) whether il is a fact that Pakistan (a) Yes. Sir. armed forces stationed at Indo-Pakis- (b> K: (> lakhs by value No tan border at Dawki on the Shillong- quantity lias hci-n fixid. Sylhet Road forcibly canted away two Indian nationals from the Dawki Documentary Film on Bhakra Dam football field a few days ago within Project the Indian territory; 3453. Shri Daljit Singh: Will the (b) if so, what steps have been Minister of Information and Broad­ taken to recover the abducted casting be pleased to state. persons; (a) whether it is a fact that Gov­ (c) whether i) is also a fact that ernment propose to prepare a docu­ they were mercilessly beaten zmd sent mentary film reyardinf; Bhakra Dam to Sylhet; and Project; and (b) if so. the time by which it w ill Id) what action has been taken by be released-’ the Government of India in the m atter? The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Dr. B. V. K eskar); (a) The Prime Minister and Minister of and (b). Bhakra Dam has already External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal been the subject of a documentary. Nehru): (a) and (c). Yes, Sir. Two other documentary films, one of (b) and (d). Protests have been two reels in black and white and the lodged with the Government of East other of six reels in colour, are under Pakistan both at District and State production. The former is expected Government levels. The matter has to be releasd in July. The latter it also been taken up by the Govern­ yet in its preliminary stages. *3^ 73 Written Answers 7 MAY 1938 Written Answers 13674

Shifting of Offices to IVifpur (c) the reason for the gap, if any, between the target and actual per­ 3454. Shri Tangatnani: W ill the formance? Minister of Works, Housing and Supply be pleased to refer to the The Minister of Commerce and In­ reply given to Starred Question dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): No. 280 on the 19th February, 1958 (a) The State Trading Corporation and state: of India has been asked by Govern­ ment to increase the exports of Iron (a) when certain offices in Delhi Ore from the country to the maxi­ are likely to be shifted to Nagpur; mum possible extent. (b) whether it includes the office of (b) A quantity of 17,06,424 tons the Chief Inspector of Explosives; and has been exported during the period July, (c) if so, when the said office is 1957 to March, 1958. likely to be shifted? (c) Recently the tempo of ship­ The Minister of Works, Housing ments has somewhat slowed down and Supply (Shri K. C. Reddy): (a) because of the recession in The move of the offices, proposed to world steei production, and con­ be shifted to Nagpur from Delhi, is sequently in the demand for iron likely to commence in May—July, ore. Nevertheless, by the end of 1958.' June, 1958, it is expected that about (b) Yes. 2 2 to 2 3 million tons would be ex­ ported, as compared with 213 million

L ajpat Rai Market External Publicity 3455. Shri A. K. Gopalan: Will the _ f Shri Dinesh Singh: M inister of Rehabilitation amd Mino­ Shri Vajpayee: rity Affairs be pleased to refer to the Will the Prime Minister be pleased reply given to Unstarred Question to state: No. 734 on the 27th November, 1957 and state: (a) whether Government are con­ sidering the formation of a new ser­ (a) whether the shops in the New vice to man the External Publicity Lajpat Rat Market at Delhi have Division; and been allotted; and (b) if so, the progress made in the (b) if not, how the allotments will m atter? be made? The Prime Minister and Minister of The Minister of Rehabilitation and External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand N ehru): (a) No. Khanna); (a) Yes. (b) Does not arise. (b) Does not arise. Indian Missions Abroad 3458. Shri Dinesh Singh: Will the Export of Iron Ore Prime Minister be pleased to state: 3456. Shri Bimal Ghose: Will the (a) how many cases of financial Minister of Commerce and Industry irregularities on the part of senior be pleased to state: officers serving in Missions abroad have been reported by the Foreign (a) the target for the export of Service Inspectorate in their last iron ore during 1957-58; report; (b) the quantity of iron ore actual­ (b) how many of these cases have ly exported during 1957-58; and been investigated; and 13675 W ritten Answers 7 MAY 1958 Written Answers 13676

(c) what action has been taken in Station are recorded ift Bombay and these cases? the tape-records are sent to Madras;

The Prime Minister aind Minister of (b) if so, the expenses incurred in External' Affairs (Sht|l Jawaharlal recording the programmes during Nehru): (a) No specific case of finan­ October, 1957 to M arch, 1968 and cial irregularity by any particular for transporting such records to officer has been reported by Foreign Madras; and Service Inspectors; (b) and (c). Do not arise. (c) the method of transporting the Two cases of irregular drawal of records to Madras? Exchange Compensation Allowance, however, came to the notice of the The Minister of Information and Ministry. In both oases, the officers Broadcasting (Dr. Keskar): (a) and concerned have been directed to re­ (c). There appears to be a misunder­ fund the Exchange Compensation standing regarding the procedure for Allowance irregularly drawn. preparing the programmes of ‘Vividh Bharati’. The items for this pro­ Import of Plywood gramme are selected by a central selection unit, which for the moment 3459. Shri P. G. Deb: Will the is located in Bombay, out of hundreds Minister of Commerce and Industry of items prepared by every Station of be pleased to state: the A.I.R. The Stations prepare the (a) whether it is a fact that huge items according to a detailed direc­ quantity of plywood is imported into tive. The selections from the Stations, India; recorded on tapes, are sent to the Cen­ (b) if so, what is the total quantity tral unit for the final selection. After imported yearly; final selection, two copies, of the pro­ (c) the value of the same in Indian gramme are prepared and sent to the currency; and high power transmitters at Madras and Bombay for simultaneous trans­ (d) how far it has been possible mission. The location of the centre to stop this import by producing at Bombay is accidental. It is now local plywood or homogenous wood proposed to bring the Central unit in the country? for the ‘Vividh Bharati’ to Delhi. The Minister of Commerce and In­ dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (b) It is not possible to calculate (a) No, Sir. exactly the expenditure on the record­ ing of programmes as most of the (b) and

(b) Of these, 2 were in Punjabi. In (c) No licences are issued at pre­ addition 52 documentaries were sent for saffron. For other items, the dubbed in Punjabi in 1955-56 to issue of fresh licences will depend' 1957-58. upon the extent to which quotas al­ ready established have been utilised! Export of Shoes and Leather Goods and whether any quotas are allotted 1 during subsequent licensing periods. 3462. S hri D aljit Singh: Will the Minister of Commerce and Industry Exports of Coffee be pleased to state: 3464. Shri D aljit Singh: W ill the (a) the countries from which our Minister of Commerce and Industry country is facing competition in the be pleased to state: export of shoes and leather goods; (a) the names of the countries fromi and which we are facing competition ini (b) whether there has been any the coffee trade abroad; and increase or decrease in the export in (b) the total export of coffee during: 1957? 1957-58 (country-w ise)? The Minister of Commerce and In­ The Minister of Commerce and In­ dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri) r (a) The countries from which our (a) Exports of Indian Coffee consti­ country is facing competition in the tute a very small proportion of the- export of shoes and leather goods world exportable surplus, being with­ are Hongkong, South Africa, U.K., in 1% of it. The main coffee grow­ West Germany and Italy. ing countries participating in the ex­ port of coffee at present are East (b) Our exports in “leather goods” Africa, Brazil and Central America. have declined in 1957 whereas in shoes and boots they have risen (b) The figures of exports of coffee, appreciably. country-wise, for the period April to 7 MAY 1958 Written Answers I S 13* 79 Written Answers 36 0

N ov em ber, 1967 are given in the Village Housing Projects In P a a jrt statement placed on the Table of Lok 3467. S hri D aljit Singh: W ill the Sabha. [See Appendix VIII, an- Minister of Works, Housing and Sup­ >nexure 156]. Figures for the months ply be pleased to state: December 1957 to March 1958 are not yet ready. (a) the number of Village Housing Projects allotted to the Punjab State Export of Wool and Woollen Goods during 1958-59; and 3465. Shri D aljit Singh: Will the

Export of Sewing Machines The Deputy Minister of Labour (Shri Abid Ali): (a) Nil. 3466. Shri D aljit Singh: Will the Minister of Commerce and Industry (b) At present there is no proposal be pleased to state: for establishing any such Institute in (a) the countries from which we Punjab. are facing competition in the export of sewing machines; and Manufacture of Wooden Toys (b) whether there has been any increase or decrease in the export of 3469. Shri D aljit Singh: Will the sewing machines during 1957? Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: The Minister of Commerce and In­ dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (a) whether it is a fact that Gov­

(i») 12 so, the amoutit sanctioned by the land is acquired, they should Government as grant and loan in this be provided with alternative land regard? for construction of their houses and for cultivation purposes. The Minister of Commerce and In- dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): Land Acquisition in Delhi (a) No, Sir. (b) The question does not arise. 3471. Shri Chandak: Will the Minis­ ter of Works, Housing and Supply be pleased to state: Land Acquisition in Delhi (a) whether it is a fact that Gov­ •w# /Shri P. L. Barupal: ernment are considering to revise \ Shri Chandak: their policy of land acquisition in Delhi for the construction of houses; Will the Minister of Works, Hous­ and ing and Supply be pleased to state: (b) if so . what are the details?

(a) whether it is a fact that certain The Minister of Works, Housing and colonisers in Delhi have represented Supply (Shri K. C. Reddy): (a) At to Government, against its land present, there is no proposal to revise acquisition policy: and the Government’s policy of land acquisition in Delhi. (b) if so, w hat is the nature of (b) Does not arise. their complaint? Alt India Handloom Board The Minister of Works. Housing and Supply (Shri K. C. Reddy): (a) Shri Tangamani: The Government have received re­ * Shri S. M. Banerjee: presentations from housing societies Will the Minister of Commerce and and individuals protesting against its Industry be pleased to state: acquisition of land in the Hinj< Road (a) whether there is a proposal to area in Delhi. shift the Headquarters of the All

(a) the number of Employment (a) the quantity and the value of Exchanges opened in Punjab State so Plantago Ovata Husk (Sat Isabgol) far; exported from the year 1951 upto the 31st March, 1958 country-wise; (b) the number of registered candi­ (b) its production during the same dates in each at preseat; period year-wise; (c) the number of persons provided (c) the names in with jobs so far; and of places India where it is produced; and W ritten Antwm 7 MAY IMS Written Anncwrs 13686

(3) In Bhopal, Madhya Bharat and (d ) Am step* taken to encourage Vindhya Pradesh (Madhya Pradesh), its cultivation mud also its use in Saurashtra (Bombay) and Assam, industries in India? provision for the prevention of frag­ m entation has been made. There is, Tbe Minister of Commerce and In- however, at present no provision for dutry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): the consolidation of holdings. (a) and (b). A statement is placed on the Table of Lok Sabha. [See N o t e : The above statement is based Appendix VIII, annexure No. 157], upon information available. How­ (c) Siddhpur, Patan, Unjah and ever, State Governments have been Palanpur in the Bombay State. requested to supply information upto- date and additional information, if (d) No steps have been taken in any, will be placed on the Table of this regard so far. 1he Lok Sabha as soon as it is received. Fragmentation of Land Holdings Railway Quarters 3476-A. Shri Hem Raj: Will the Minister of Planning: be pleased to *» / Shri Karni state the names of the States which \ Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: have enacted laws for preventing WiTl the Minister of Works, Hous­ fragmentation of agricultural land ing and Supply be pleased to state: holdings by partition, inheritance or transfer m ter-vivos after consolida­ (a) the provision made for the tion? year 1957-58 under the Low Income Group Housing Scheme on the Nor­ Tbe Deputy Minister of Planning thern Railway, giving its allocation (Shri S. N. Mishra): (1) In the follow­ Division-wise; ing areas, provision has been made (.b) the actual amount utilised, for consolidation of holdings as well Division-wise, during the said period as for prevention of fragmentation: against the above allotment; and Andhra Pradesh Telangana area (e) the number of applications re­ Bihar ceived in the Bikaner Division for Bombay: former Bombay such grants and the number sanc­ area. tioned? M arathw ada area, The Deputy Minister of Works, Madhya Pradesh: former Madhya Housing and Supply (Shri Anil K. Pradesh area. Chanda): (a) to (c). The Low In­ M ysore: Karnataka area. come Group Housing Scheme is ad­ Bombay area. ministered through the State Gov­ Orissa ernments and Union Administrations, to whom annual allocations of funds R ajasthan are made. No separate allocations Uttar Pradesh are made to the Northern Railway or Delhi any Division thereof.

In these States, the provisions re­ Rent for Hired Accommodation for lating to prevention of fragmentation G overnm ent OJBces apply to all lands. 3476-C. Shri H. C. Sharm a: WH1 (2) In Punjab (including Pepsu), the Minister of Works, Housing and there is a provision for the preven­ Supply be pleased to state the amount tion of fragmentation only in areas paid by the Union Government in where the consolidation operations 1957-58 on the buildings rented by it have taken place. throughout the country? 13687 W ritten Antxoerg 7 MAY t&58 Written AMw«w 13688 Tablt The Miatltcr of Works, Bourin* A ppendix VIII, annexure 198}. In ­ and SaWty

The Minister of Commerce (Shri Statem ent correcting answ er to Sup­ Kanunffo): I beg to lay on the Table, plem entary to S.Q. No. 1839 under sub-section (3) of Section 48 The Deputy M inister of Works, of the Coffee Act, 1942, a copy of each Housing and Supply (Shri Anil K. of the following Notifications, making Chanda): I beg to lay on the Table certain further amendments to the a copy of the Statement correcting Coffee Rules, 1955:— the reply given on the 25th April, (1) G.S.R. No. 277, dated the 26th 1958, to a supplementary by Shri H. April, 1958. C. Dasappa on Starred Question No. 1839 regarding Middle Income Group (2) G.S.R. No. 278, dated the 26th Housing Scheme. [Placed m Library. April. 1958. Sec No. LT-704 ' 5 8 ). [Placed in library Sea No LT-fi9H/ 58J. COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEM­ R e p o k t o n w o r k in c : o f C e n t r a l S u k BERS' BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS B o a r d Twenty-second Report The Deputy Minister of Commerce Sardar Hukam Singh (Bhatmda): I and Industry (Shri Satish Chandra): beg to present the Twenty-second Re­ On behalf of Shri Manubhai Shah, I port of the Committee on Private beg to lay on the Table a copy of the Members’ B ills, and Resolutions. Half-Yearly Administrative Report on the working of the Central Silk Board for the period from 1st April to 30th CALLING ATTENTION TO MATTER September, 1957. OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

[Placed in Library. See No. LT-7U2/ A ccumulation o f K a l y a n c o t t o n 58], Shri P. R. Patel (M ehsana): Under rule 197, I beg to call the attention ol S u m m a r y o k P r o c e e d in g s o f I n d u s ­ the Minister of Commerce and In­ t r ia l C o m m i t t e e o n M i n e s o t h e r dustry to the following matter of t h a n C o a l M i n e s urgent public importance and I re­ quest that he may make a statement The Deputy Minister of Labour thereon:— (Shri Abid Ali): I beg to lay on the Table a copy of the Summary of Pro­ "Accumulation of Kalyan ceedings of the First Session of the variety of cotton with small Industrial Committee on Mines other traders.” than Coal Mines held at New Delhi on the 17th and 18th April, 1958. The Minister of Commerce (Shri Ranunco): I beg to lay a statement tPlaced in Library, See No. LT-703/ regarding the Calling Attention to 58]. accumulation of Y lynn rnttan ?369l CaUinfif Attention to 7 MAY 1W8 M atter o f Urgent 1)69* Public Importance Mr. Speaker: The statement may Consumption and Exports be laid on the Table. I understand it Mill consumption . 48-00 lakh bates is a long statement. Exports so far allowed 2-00

T o t a l . 50-00 ,, Shri Kanunffo: Yes. Balance left . iy 25 ,, Statement Regarding Calling Attention The carry-over would even be to accumulation of Kalyan Cotton lower than in the last years. The to be made on 7-5-58. carry-over is meant to be utilised during 4 off-season months, i.e. The notice pivpn by Shri Purushot- September to December and at the tamdas R. Patel refers to the hardship rate of 4 lakhs bales consumption per of Ka'lyan cotton growers and tra­ month, this balance in hand could ders as a result of our export policy. hardly be sufficient to carry us Some 140,000 bales of K alyan cotton through, unless the final position of are reported-to have accumulated the crop turns out to be bettor. On with traders as a consequence of the statistical position, there can be which the traders have stopped buy­ hardly any room for further ex­ ing pods kapas from cultivators and ports. where purchases are made, they are Imports of cotton have been con­ made at a very low price. fined only to the minimum require­ ments of long staple cotton to pro­ duce fine and superfine cloth; it is, It has been further urged that on . therefore, expected that for the pro­ account of concessions, in excise duction of medium and coarse cloth duties on fine and superfine cloth, the which forms nearly 85% of the total Kalyan cotton which is below 3/4’’ production, mills will have to depend this year and which can be used only upon the indigenous production of for the production of coarse and cotton. medium cloth is not in much demand by the textile mills. So far the following quantities of cotton have been permitted for ex­ port during the current season:— Government have been allowing ex­ ports of limited quantities only of Bengal deshi 150,000 bales short staple cotton whereas the Cotton of not above Kalyan cotton bears a staple length 23/32” in staple 50,000 bales of 25/32” and above. This is a medium staple cotton and therefore is T o t a l 2,00,000 required for the mills for the pro­ duction of medium cloth. The statis­ tical position as given below also The deteriorated Kalyan cotton if it indicates that our supply position of satisfied the description of staple indigenous cotton cannot be said to length of 23/32” and below can, be quite satisfactory:— therefore, very well qualify for ex­ port. It is not correct therefore to say that there is a complete ban on export, if the staple length is 23/32" Crops and carry-out and below. The other point that has been rais­ drrv over from last year . 18-25 lakhs bales ed is that tke liberal concession in ttommerciaJ cotton crop excise duties on fine and super-fin* e» tim ateJ . 49-00 ,, ,, textiles have hard hit textile mills T o i a l . 67-25 ,, manufacturing coarse and medium textiles other than fine and superfin*. t^ 6 9 3 WWU9* Antwtrt ? MAY 1»S8 Leave of A bsence

Thi s statement is also not justified. than in the case of fine and superfine The reduction in excise duty has been cloth as will be seen from the follow­ much more pronounced so far as ing figures:— coarse and medium cloth is concerned

Category of cloth Previous Addl. Present Addl. rate of excise rate of excite duty per duty per duty per duty per sq. yd. sq. yd. sq. yd. sq. yd.

Coarse (dhoties & sarees) 6 ps. 3 np. 3 np 3 np. Coarse (other varieties) 1 anna 3 np 6 np 3nP 6 ps. Medium (dhoties & sarees' 1 anna 4 np 7 n r 4 np 6 ps. Medium (other varieties) 1 anna 4 np 9 np 4 np Fine . 3 annas 6 np 17 np 8 np Superfine 4 annas 13 np 22 np 1311P

The statement attached giving the July spot prices of Kalyan cotton from Aug. 790/825 S e p t . 750'800 1956 upto 14.4.1958 also indicates that Oci. 775/805 the prices are not low at al’l. They N o v . 730/ 76c are more than Rs. 200/- per candy D e c . 70 c'720 above, the floor price. This will also 1958 suggest that there is sufficient de­ mand for this cotton as otherwise the Januars prices will not rule high. 4- 1-58 700 720 The above facts would clearly in­ U-1-5K 685/730 dicate that exports of cotton have 18 -1-58 . 695/730 been allowed consistent with our in­ 25-1-58 695/730 31-1-5K . 695 '730 ternal requirements, and deteriorated varieties of Kalyan cotton can as well February qualify for export. The supply posi­ 4- 2- 5R • 6 9 5 /7 3 0 tion of cotton is not such as to place n - 2-58 7 2 5 /T40 the cotton grower of Kalyan cotton 18 -2-58 7 3 0 /7 7 0 25-2-58 in any nervous position as has been 71 5 /7 5 5 * 8 -2-58 71 5 /755 brought out in the notice. Further the reduction in excise duty has been Match more pronounced so far as coarse and medium categories of cloth is con­ 4 -3 -5 8 • 71 5 ,7 5 5 11-3-58 710/760 cerned than fine and superfine. 18 -3-58 710,760 25-3-58 . 710/760 3 1- 3 - 5 R 7io'76o Prices of Kalyan Cotton Floor Price: 510. (per candy Apri 1 / of 784 lbs.) .M -58 • 7 r 0/760 CeiVing: 570. 10-4-58 . 700/755 *956 14-4-58 • "00/755 Sepr. »50/87<>N Oct. ?5o/8 oo Mily. 750/770 Dec. 7-?o '?50N 1957 LEAVE OF ABSENCE Tan. 720/7 3 -In' Feb. 725/7 50N Mr. Speaker: The Committee on Mar. 870 Absence of Memuers from the Sittings Apr. 870 of the House in their Seventh Report Mty. 860/870 June 840/870 have recommended that leave of L m m o M b w n e e 7 MAY 1158 Leave of A U I W 1 3 6 9 6

[Mr. Speaker] absence may be granted to the follow­ hon. Members are concerned, we ing Members lor the periods indicat­ will proceed under the impression ed in the Report:— that all is well, and try to accommo­ date them, and not put an additional 1. Shri V. Eacharan. burden upon the constituency to 2. Shri Balasaheb Salunke. return another Member. I hope and trust that the House will accept 3. Shri U. Muthuramalinga the recommendations of the Com­ Thevar. mittee. 4. Shri Chandikeshwar Sharan Shri Tangunani (Madurai): If he Singh Ju Deo. is released from detention he is pre­ 5. Shri T. T. Krishnamachan. pared to attend the House. Each 6- Shri P. C. Bose. time he has been hoping that he 7. Shri Rajaram Balkrishna Haul. would be released from detention but he has been kept there still. 8 . Chowdhry Brahm Pcrkash. Mr. Speaker: Is there any necessity 9. Shri Pendakanti Venkatasub- for argument? baiah. Shri Narayanankutty Menon 10. Shri R. Kanakasabai. (Mukandapuram): The hon. Member Shri Kasliwal made a statement about Shri Kasliwal (Kolah): With regard the Ramanathapuram riots and also to one hon Member, Shri Thevar, he about the connection of this parti­ is under preventive detention for a cular Member of the House with long time in connection with certain those things. Once a sessions case is riots that took place in the Rama- pending, in which there are allega­ nathapuram where hundreds of tions. is it proper for .the hon. Mem­ houses were burnt down and thou­ ber to say that he is involved and sands of Scheduled Caste people all that and thus fix up the 'liability, were uprooted from their places. before this House, when the hon. This is the third time that the hon Member is not here? Member has come up again asking for leave of absence l'rom the sittings Mr. Speaker: All that he mentioned of the House. I request you to con­ was this He has not come to any sider the whole question m this light. conclusion. In case there is a ease against him. he says there ought to Mr. Speaker: The hon Member be no leave granted. Well, there are raises this point now. It 1.-, not as if 500 hon Member*, and how can I the hon. Member concerned got into prevent any hon. Member from say­ custody by himself. If he is under ing what he wished to say 9 But of preventive detention, how fat leave course the hon Member ought not should be refused? He may be under say anything which might prejudice preventive detention for a thing for any particular case in a court. All which he is not responsible. He may hon Members will kindly bear that be responsible in a way that he is in mind, whoever may be the hon. accused of or is responsible for acts Member against whom a case is pend­ which ultimately ended in preventive ing. nothing shall, be said on the detention. That is a m atter for the floor of the House which might pre­ courts to decide. judice the proper conduct, of the So far as we are concerned, it does ease. I take it that the House agrees not appear to be proper that when a with the recommendations of the person is taken under custody and Committee kept there, we should impose another Shri Braj Raj Singh (Firozabad): I punishment, irrespective of the ques­ want to raise a pertinent question. tion whether a punishment is imposed Cannot some arrangement be made by the Court or not. So far as all by which the hon. Member may be 13^97 CfaWtio* of 7 MAY Supplementary Answers to 1 5 6 9 8 Starred Qwitfon No. 1718 bro ught here to Delhi and kept under conducted under, the auspices of the preventive detention here and he may Himalayan Mountaineering Institute, be allowed to take part in the pro­ Darjeeling. As already indicated by ceedings of the House? me in answer to part (a) of the main question, the Cho Oyu expedition is Mr. Speaker: We are on the ques­ purely an unofficial expedition. The tion of leave of absence from the expedition was actually sponsored by sittings of the House. Some hon. a Committee not connected with the Members may say that no leave ought Himalayan Mountaineering Institute. to be granted. This hon. Member As regards training in mountaineer­ swings the pendulum the other side ing, of the three Service Officers who and asks whether the hon. Member are members of the expedition, one may not be allowed to attend. Let us wai the ex-Principa'l of the Hima­ be satisfied with what is before us. layan Mountaineering Institute, and 1 take it that the House agrees with the other two Service Officers had the recommendations of the Commit­ undergone the basic course at that tee. Institute. I have no information Several H»n. Members: Yes. about the training undergone by the Mr. Speaker: The Members will be other members of the expedition. informed accordingly In regard to the query raised by Shrimati Renu Chakravartty, as al­ ready indicated by me 111 answer to CORRECTION OF SUPPLEMENTARY part (c) of the maio question, there ANSWER TO STARRED QUESTION are two scientists attached to the NO. 1738 expedition.—one from the Botanical The Deputy Minister of Defence Survey of India and the other from (Sardar Majithia): I beg to make a the Zoological Survey of India. statement correcting the reply given # Wf" *** (*re«rFT) : on the 18th April, 1958, to the sup- plementaries by Shri Bhakt Darshan, If rr-7: ^17.^1 f, I >T,T iff Shri Hem Barua and Shrimati Renu f w jttt =, -s w Chakravartty on Starred Question No. 1738 regarding Himalayan Ex­ pedition J TT^ rT-fq-.fafvR TT=f7 iq I =5 ^ 7 In the supplementary questions, arising from the answer given to *T IP r'' Starred Question No. 1738 m the Lok m % i ?? Sabha on the 18th April, 1958, Shri Bhakt Drarshan and Shri Hem Barua 'fftJr r sr? 5cr+.*rr 'j nr? r*< ferrr wished to know whether such parties JT rr*p faiT'TS" \ W * 1?. 3TT?WT as the Cho Oyu expedition would be sent up every year, and also whether im * r ? -r r*T ffr members of the team had undergone ■jf t ^ ^fr * % -JflrfTT 'jfl any training in any international f r *rf tT *rr ’ # mountaineering club. Further, Shri- mati Renu Chakravartty asked whe­ ?»T farr 7? m T=rr f fa m ther Geological Department, specia­ lists in Botany, etc., were associated with the expedition. Mr. Speaker: How does it arise out of this question? It is only a simple The answers given in reply to these correction of r statement that has questions are likely to give an im­ been made. Unless that correction pression that the Cho Oyu expedition relates to somebody dying on the was sponsored by, or was being way, there is no meaning in asking a l3&99Co™Kt^ r f s"PPtem* ^rv7 MAY 1*58 Trade and Merdmndite XJ7W> Answers to Starred Question ita r k Bfll t No. 173$ [Mr. Speaker] supplementary. Then we will be zw w r ^ p f t y w * t « opening the vista very wide. Has it anything to do with this question? fTrr i fm $‘ TFFTT TUFTT |? Sardar Majithia: No, Sir, not in this correction. But if you want me to— Mr. Speaker: No, I do not want. If ^ CT w ^ ? relevant questions are asked, hon. Ministers sometimes keep quiet, but if out-of-the-way questions are asked, TRADE AND MERCHANDISE they are anxious to answer. MARKS BILL—contd. Shri Tangamani (Madurai): That is Mr. Speaker: The House will now an important question. resume further discussion on the motion for reference of the Trade and Mr. Speaker: That is anotht’i' mat­ M erchandise M arks Bill, 1958 to a ter. Joint Committee. Out of 3 hours Shri Tangamani: I w anted to sub­ allotted to this motion, 41 minutes m it that a number of people, who have already been availed of and formed part of the expedition team, 2 hours and 19 minutes now remain. have died. Shri Narayanankutty Menon may Mr. Speaker: The hon Member continue his speech. knows only too well how questions Shri Narayanankutty Menon (Mu- c-an be asked and answered. kandapuram): Mr. Speaker, the *** w t t r m other day I was submitting that a sfm be his own property. The law of the paramount consideration should patents also in a way acknowledges be, not the absolute nature of the the working of individual or collec­ right that is conferred upon that indi­ tive intelligence and, therefore, the vidual who owns the property created product of that collective intelligence by this law, but the paramount con­ 1? recognized as as his own property, sideration in defining the trade marks as far as the society is concerned. should be the public good and also But, in contra-distinction to the honest trade in this country. There­ pr;nciples underlying the laws of fore, I repeat that extreme care copyright and patents, the law of should be taken in order not to view trade marks began to grow in a the right of trade mark as a sanctimo­ different way. And we will find that nious public right which has been un­ very little intelligence, very little known to primitive jurisprudence human endeavour is involved, so far and also to mediaeval jurisprudence, as the law of trade mark is concern­ a right which has been evolved by the ed, before a person in the society transactions in the modem society in comes forward and says and property the wake of the Industrial Revolution, as his own. a right which is not the result of hon­ est labour but a right which is going to be conferred simply for the purpose Therefore, when the Select Commit­ of business competition. Therefore, tee considers the very conception of extreme care should be taken only in TrM emt T M A Y 1958 MerChawd** M«rJw BUI 13704

[Sh ri Narayanankutty Menon] acknowledging very limited right, as monopoly by means of granting cer­ far as trade mark is concerned, and tain rights under this particular Act. I hope when the Select Committee Therefore, the provision should be so goes into the principle of the recom­ modelled, as it is already modelled mendations of Justice Rajagopala with extreme caution and care, that Iyengar, who agreed with the minor­ this particular danger which is threat­ ity report, which rejected the far ening is forestalled. Whenever a law more wider demand for protective re­ on trade marks is brought, the com­ gistration, 1 hope the Select Commit­ mercial community and free trade will tee will certainly agree with me in have to be taken into consideration this respect that the law and the right and in every clause the Select Com- conferred upon the trade marks will mitte should remember that they be only very limited, and in certain should not trespass into this realm of cases symbolic, restricted only for the public trade except to the extent of protection of that right to a very lim­ recognition of this very limited right ited extent. as far as trade mark is concerned.

Another provision which the Select I will come presently to the three Committee should certainly consider important recommendations made by is an extension of what 1 have submit­ the Committee I am making a men­ ted now. As the recommendation tion of it today just because this Bill shows, as also the principle of 1he law is being referred to the Select Com­ of trade marks shows, the principle of mittee. If this Bill would have been the Bill is exclusively limited 10 the before this House today for considera­ I'ecognition of a distinctive right, as tion and passing, I would not have far as a particular property is con­ taken the time of this House to repeat cerned. and all the provisions of the whatever has been written or to side Bill should conform to the recogni­ with a particular opinion because it is tion of this rule alone that the trade quite likely that these two conflicting mark Act should give the right only and contradicting viewpoints expres­ as far as the protection of that prop­ sed in the document which is to be erty is concerned, and in defining it placed before the Select Committee in a distinctive character no more will be available for hon. Members right should be conferred, u.i far a* rind it is quite likely that some hon. the trade mark owner is concerned, Members may side with the majority and you should be loath to recognize report, which is quite logical in their any individual right more than the re­ approach, and other hon. Members cognition of this physical definition of may side with the minority report property to a very limited extent. reinforced by the recommendation of Otherwise there is one constant dan­ the hon. Judge. Therefore I am re­ ger that any individual commercial peating that the very basis of those establishment or a private trader will recommendations should be studied by try to acquire, on his own terms and hon. Members and the reasoning and definition, a large variety of trade and logic and the necessity of public good industry even far in advance in a that is being recommended by the competitive society, and he will be minority report and also the commen­ able to deny that right to another dable action of the Government in ap­ industrialist or commercial trader, pointing an officer and referring • this who comes into the arena far later matter to judge, will be realised by resulting in the creation of a virtual hon. Members. monopoly granted lo him by means of this Act. The ultimate intention md object o! the Parliament should The three points I will discuss and t be to continue that right to forestall will conclude. The most important that danger of creating a commercial point that is discussed where there 7 MAY 1958 Merchandise Marks Sill 13706 is a controversial opinion is the neces­ these ad hoc tribunals we will be sity of a special tribunal. The trade confronted with a large number of Mark Owners’ Association have sub­ varied decisions. For unanimity alone, mitted a series of documents and also the High Courts should get jurisdic­ argued before all these committees tion to decide these cases so that that there should be a special tribu­ there is a Supreme Court to have nal appointed so that there may be a an appea'l from the High Courts uniform law as far as trade marks art* and under the Constitution we get concerned. It is quite logical in the a binding and uniform decision report that when they contended that as far as the law of trade marks there is anarchy in the trade mark is concerned. Therefore, I submit law and therefore they demand a spe­ that the cause of special tribunals cial tribunal. The Select Committee has not been properly made out. should look into the details because Then own arguments are defeat­ the learned judge has enunciated all ed in that the High Court, can have the law on trade marks right from the complete jurisdiction as far as these beginning, be they reported or unre­ are concerned and the provision in the ported cases, and the judge has come Bill as far as the right of appeal to to the conclusion that all the High the High Courts is concerned, it Courts that dealt with the law of trade should be detained by the Select Com­ marks irrespective of aspersions made m ittee. against them in the memorandum The most important part of the re­ submitted have come to a unanimous commendation is regarding defensive opinion and there is a commendable registration. As I have submitted earl­ unanimity at least so far as the trade ier, the trade mark law does not give mark law is concerned. The Judge to the owner of the trade mark an ab­ has rejected the plea that there should solute right under common law be­ be any special tribunals for the trade cause by means of his profession in marks concerned. the trade he does not get any right at all. Somebody in the laboratory In this connection 1 wish to make a or somebody in his own business reference that whenever special house think-' of certain names or branches of law are coming and when­ makes certain compounds, he acquires ever different interests are coming, the industrial property or commercial every interest specially in these cases property which is in the common demand separate tribunals. The usual ownership and gives out a name. Are complaint is made that the High we to give absolute right as far as Courts of the land may vary in their that particular individual is con­ decisions and may not have unanim­ cerned, i.e . an unrestricted ity. At the same time we will have right to acquire this property? to remember that these High Courts The Bill gives a rig’hi if he has got are established under the Constitution manufactured goods, if he has goods and it is presumed that any judge or in presenta. which he could give a any bench of judges presiding over name to The law is prejiared to re­ these High Courts have got complete cognise that particular rigljt and pro­ and full knowledge of the law and tect his right as long as that is extant when the decisions are given they are from being competed upor* or being given correctly. Instead, the argu- counterfeited. What is reqjuued under mtent is cut in this way that if special this suggestion of defence registra­ tribunals are appointed, which have tion is that anybody in hfis own house got only statutory recognition, but not can coin a phrase, car^- just take the having constitutional recognition, the phraseology from the/ common voca­ divergent opinion is given by these bulary and go to tKc Registrar of tribunals as we are finding in the in­ Trade Marks for '"registering it and dustrial courts today. We will our­ as long 'a s he" is alive and as long as selves find a large forum and quag­ his successors are alive that particu­ mire of anarchy of these decisions lar name could not be used for selling and ultimately by the decisions of that property. The law gives a right 13707 T ntdetm a 7 MAY 19W HeretouditttfaHesBOl ijfeg

[Shri Narayanankutty Item ] if they are coined phrases which are as a fanciful imagination of a sin g le not available in the ordinary vocabu­ individual who is not connected w ith lary and which the common people do the society or with the trade and w h o not understand. But when any name was not acting in tbe interests a t is there, the name through which peo­ either the nation or of the com m ercial ple ordinarily understand a particular community. Therefore any attempt in product, and if somebody is given an this Bill to incorporate any provision absolute right to take this name from for defensive registration will h a v e to the common vocabulary and go to be resisted. the Registrar of Trade Marks to get this name registered, we will be giv­ I will submit the last point and ing to the word in tne common voca- close. Another welcome feature that to monopolise and give his own mean­ has been added relates both to the ing to the word in the common voca­ law of trade marks and the Drugs Act. bulary. Let us not give unlimited The provisions and the principle have freedpm to acquire even tho names of ;ilso been recommended by the Phar- our own languages for commercial maccutical Enquiry Committee and transactions. Therefore, I support the we find in the provisions in this Act principle behind this clause—any at­ a welcome feature that whenever tempt to have defensive registration there is a violatioii of the provisions will have to bo resisted by the Mem­ of trade mark as far as the drugs and bers of the Committee—and also that foods arc concerned, exemplary punish­ the recommendations are quite sound. ment is given. I should like to A series of documents both from the submit that I am not satisfied with United Kingdom and Australia have the so-called exemplary punishment been cited before the Committee and that is given. Today, there is a menace it is quite possible that looking into in our trade that people are not these documents in any form of socie­ at all taking the least precautions. ty, whether capitalistic or socialistic Also deliberately we find counterfeit or semi-democratic, this right of ad­ things, particularly drugs which are vance registration, which is a right of not genuine are given There are nu­ unrestricted acquiring of property merous cases in the hospitals where which ii; not his own but recognised essential drugs have been given in­ by this law is right and therefore different names u Inch are not genuine. defensive registration in whatever People’s health -suffers and many manner, either directly or indirectly, deaths have taken place. The only should not be encouraged and the answer to this is, declare those per­ minority has be*>n quite right in re­ sons who have been convicted under jecting the proposal of defensive the Drugs Act for selling contraband registration. drugs under different names, as enemies of the community. Not only that. When a man goes to a criminal I find that in the lecture given by court, he may be convicted or he may Mr. Barony Queen’s Counsel, he has be acquitted. The maximum punish­ made a very emphatic and a very per­ ment which is thre^ years is no answer suasive case as to why the right of for the crime that the man has com­ defensive registration should be given. mitted by giving a small solution I should like to request the hon. Mem­ which is injurious, instead of penicillin. bers of the Select Committee that that The penicillin may not work. The man particular document will have to be may die of pneumonia because of the gone into with extreme caution be­ bad effects of the drugs. A more ex­ cause he himself was introducing a em plary punishm ent should be giwpn. theory of ownership of property which The names of these social enemies is unknown in common law and un­ who are selling things for their own known to industrial and commercial profit, who do not take any care Cor la w s. That document should be taken public health should be published and eg) T rxuboad 7 MAT IMS Merchandite Markt BiU ttfto they should be given a more exem­ ing has no logic behind it. It has no plary punishment sanction in jurisprudence in relation Mr- Sptiker: Is there any provision to determination of jurisdiction. in the Act as in the case of election Therefore, we should follow the fun­ law in which whoever commits an damental principles of jurisdiction in offence under the election law is ban­ civil action and jurisdiction should be ned for a period of years? entirely determined in relation to the place of residence of the individual Shri Narayanankutty Menon: No. whose rights have been violated and Shri Naushir Bharucha (East also in the area where the cause of Khandesh): It can be done. action arose, where the rights and Shri Narayahankutty Menon: There liabilities have arisen. Therefore, a is no provision. suitable provision should be made in Mr. Speaker: A provision that he this Act and the provisions regarding ought not to sell and then carry on appellate jurisdiction so amended that the profession? those High Courts within whose juris­ diction this particular order of regis­ Shri Narayanankutty Menon: There tration operates, should have jurisdic­ are provisions in the Drugs Act for tion. Otherwise, this would lead to cancellation of the licence. great difficulties a.s far as the actual Finally, there is a very controversial persons whose rights are violated are point which 1 would like to submit concerned. They may not be in a before the Bill goes to the Joint Com­ position to go either to Bombay or mittee. The controversial point is Madras or Calcutta to get their reme­ regarding the jurisdiction of courts. dies. I hope the Joint Committee will Before our Constitution came into consider this question: the entire law existence, the Chartered High Courts with regard to jurisdiction as it has at Calcutta and Madras, exercising developed in our High Courts bef*re their writ jurisdiction have decided Independence and also after Indepen­ that the criterion for the exercise of dence. In considering its logic, I hope jurisdiction and the determination of they will make suitable amendments the cause of action is the place where to the effect that the High Court, in the individual whose rights are affect­ whose jurisdiction these people whose ed resides. After the Constitution, a rights are affected reside will get the new law has been developed, the High automatic right to decide cases as far Courts exercising jurisdiction under as trade marks are concerned. article 226 of the Constitution, said Regarding jurisdiction, I will sub­ that jurisdiction is determined now in mit one thing and conclude. There is relation to the place where the parti­ a cumbersome procedure in the Bill cular order is passed. The whole prin­ as far as action is concerned. The ciple behind that decision is under District court has got jurisdiction A question today. Practical difficulties man may file a suit in a District court come in as far as any matter is con­ and get relief, in the matter of trade cerned. The Trade Mark Registrar, marks. But, if, in the suit, a defence whose office is situated in Bombay, is raised by the other party and the passes an order in Bombay. The effect fact of registration or the legality of of both an order of registration and registration is question, d, immediate­ also rectification of registration is on ly the District court loses jurisdic­ the individual merchants either in the tion. The matter will have to be re­ State of Kerala or Madras. Is it logi­ ferred to the High Court for a proper cal, as far as the principle of jurisdic­ rectification proceedings. In many tion i f concerned, that this man whose other enactments, in our experience rights are violated in the State of we have found that this is a laborious Kerala or Madras will have to seek and cumbersome process. If a parti­ his remedy in the High Court of cular court of law, whatever may be Bombay, just because the order has the jurisdiction—make it a High Court been passed in Bombay? That reason­ or a District court—has/jurisdiction to J 3 7 U T sm d tm d 7 MAY 105* Mereh**di*) Maria MB [Shri Narayanankutty M«non] deckle the merit■ or demerits or the Mr. Speaker: Until he oatcbm tar p ro s and cons o f a particular action, eye. When I ask ogam , he m ust sa y th a t court should get jurisdiction to so. A ll right. decide all matters which are related The Minister of Commerce and In­ to that matter. In an action for in­ dustry (Shri La) Bahadur ShMtri): fringement of trade mark, it is very It is very difficult to make out when necessary, it is closely allied, it is an Shri D. C. Sharma is sitting and When inherent matter that the validity of he is standing. registratisn should be considered. The Shri Naushir Bharncha: Sir, this is validity of registration should be de­ not only a welcome Bill, but a neces­ cided by the District Court. I hope sary BiH. I am not prepared to say that the Joint Committee will make that it will attain the objectives at suitable amendments that the District which it is aiming. But, there is no Court which has got the jurisdiction doubt that if it is carefully adminis­ to decide the action so far as the law tered, there is likely to be some of trade marks is concerned, gets the minimising of abuse of trade marks. jurisdiction to declare about the vali­ dity of registration, so that the cum­ In view of the very great import­ bersome procedure of referring the ance of advertisements in trade and matter to the High Court and staying commerce and the appeal they exert the suit, the reference being returned over vast masses, the subject of trade and then the matter being decided, marks assumes special significance. I may be avoided. do not agree with the previous speaker who, somehow or other, appeared Mr. Speaker: May T know how long to be rather jealous of the proprietors the hon. Minister wants to take? of trade marks who, according to him, The Minister of Commerce (Shri do not contribute any inventive geni­ Kanungo): Not more than ten us, but still w anted to have proprie­ minutes. tary rights in trade marks by merely coining a phrase or designing a picto­ Mr. Speaker: We started at 12-30. rial design Let it be understood in We had two hours and 39 minutes, the first place that trade marks as that is up to 2-50. I will call the hon. well a-s merchandise marks are as M inister at 2-40. I may call him ear­ much for the protection of the public lier if the number of Members want­ as for the benefit of proprietors of ing to spoke are not many. such trade marks Today, for instance, if I want to go in for a particular Some Hon. Members: There are type of cloth, if I have got faith in a not many speakers. particular textile mill, I will take care to see that I get the goods of the par­ Mr. Speaker: 1 am not going to put ticular trade mark of that particular it off. If there are no Members, I will textile mill. Therefore, it affords the immediately call upon the hon. Min­ consuming public greater protection ister. There is time till then. I will than the benefit that is conferred upon call him at 2-40. He can carry on the proprietors of such marks. I have for 10 minutes or a few minutes more. gone through this Trade and Mer­ May I have an idea as to how many chandise- Marks Bill, but unfortunate­ hon. Members want to participate in ly I find there is a tendency for exces­ this debate? Shri Naushir Bharucha, sive legislation and even common law Shri Supakar, Shri Braj Raj Singh. matters are sought to be codified into Any other? None other. clauses. I hope that the Select Com­ Shri D. C. Sharm a (G urdaspur) mittee will look into it. rose— 13 hrs. Mr. Speaker: Shri D. C. Sharm a The scheme of the Bill is broadly wants to speak? He must stand up. this. First we define registered trade marks, associated trade marks and S h ri D. C. Sharma: I stood up. certification trade marks. Then th ere 13713 Trade and 7 H A Y 1558 Merchandise Marks Bill 13714 is definition given of the most import- (i) as to the number, quantity, .ant part of the Bill, namely, what r measure, gauge or weight of -a false trade description and “decep­ any goods; or tively similar” trade mark. Of course, (ii) as to the standard of quality there are the usual provisions of as­ of any goods, according to • signment, transmission, registration, classification commonly used conditions of registration, effect of or recognised in the trade-, or registration and so forth. (iii) as to the fitness for the pur­ pose, strength, performance The basis of the whole measure is or behaviour of any goods, to protect the genuine trade marks being “drugs” as defined in and at the same time to protect the the Drugs Act, 1940, or “arti­ consuming public and discourage the cles of food” as defined in the use of fraudulent trade marks. How Prevention of Food Adultera­ far it will succeed, experience alone tion Act. 1954;" will show, because as our experience indicates there are numerous difficul­ This is an important part ->f the ties in administering even a very measure, this is the essence of it and sound measure which regulates trade we must thoroughly define what m arks. ‘‘trade description" really means. Now, take the complaint which is very Sir, in the present case I do not common, namely, that spurious drugs, wish to go into very many details, or adultrated foodstuffs are sold under but confine myself to certain defini­ colour of a particular trade mark. If tions which constitute the very es­ it is proved that the trade mark or sence of this Bill. For instance, take trade description does not fit in, then the definition of “false trade descrip­ action can be taken. I should like to tion” given in clause 2 (f)(iii) “any know how in actual practice this will trade description which denotes or be implemented. implies that there are contained, as regards the goods to which it is Take for instance a particular drug. applied, more yards or metres than There is a particular trade description there are contained therein stand­ certifying that it is of a particular ard yards or standard metres”. standard. Actually it may not be so. This is the usual fraudulent device How are the people who are going to resorted to by traders when launch prosecutions going to deter­ there is a piece length. They mine this? In the first place, how are they going to have the machinery for say there are 36 yards w hen actually there are only 34 yards. But detection of such cases? Today the this false trade description can be complaint is that trade in spurious both in terms of linear measurement drugs is so vast and universal that as also in terms of weight, liquid what my hon. friend, the previous speaker Mr. Menon, said is quite cor­ measurements and gauge. I think this rect. It is estimated that an import­ definition requires to be extended to ant part of chemists’ business consists include all these varieties of false des­ of spurious drygs and it is openly criptions and I have no doubt the said that unless they carry on trade Select Committee will look into this in spurious drugs, it is fiot possible m atter. for a chemist to stand the competit’on. Among the important matters dealt How is this going to be remedied by with here is the definition of “trade this measure? I find it rather diffi­ description”. First I shall read out cult to understand.

[Sh ri Naushir Bharucha] some machinery is placed at the dispo­ India-wide appeal. For instance,, sal of those people on whom the res­ goods of universal use, such as biris,. ponsibility of implementing the Act cigarettes and things like that have devolves, so that they are in a posi­ sale only within a few districts. All' tion to judge of the fitness of purpose of them do not have all-India sales. and strength, in short some sort of a I think we should accept the principle- chemical and pharmaceutical test in this Bill that when a person desires house, is placed at their disposal, it to have a particular trade mark regis­ will be extremely difficult to find out tered, it should be confined to a parti­ in what manner the fitness of purpose cular State only. Often the proprie­ or strength or performance is not up tors of trade marks themselves do not to the description. ask for wider registration. The bene­ I might give some instances to clari­ fit of it would be that you will not fy the point I have been making. needlessly prevent people from other Some years ago in Bombay City some­ areas of the country using the trade body started selling what were known marks either in relation to the same as “Memory Pearls”, for students to goods or other goods, so far as the enable them to improve their memory. trade marks are confined to one par­ The whole thing was a huge hoax and ticular State. This point must be fraud played on students. No doubt looked into, because most of the trade the memory pills, or memory pearls marks relate to goods the sales of as they were called, were marketed which are confined often to a few under a beautiful trade label, And I talukas or at the most a few districts. am not sure whether the trade mark If some State-wise arrangement of was registered. The student world registration could be made I think a was exploited very badly. I do not great deal of trouble to people who know how under this Bill we will be desire to use the same mark in rela­ able to check such things. I am of tion to some goods in other areas the opinion, as I shall show presently, would be avoided. that wider powers should be given to Also, after registration, the- period the Registrar to refuse registration, of seven years is far too long. The where obviously exaggerated claims period of renewal must be five years regarding the quality of particular at the most, because most of the trade goods are made—sometimes absurd marks are registered by businessmen and false claims. I have known that who are enthusiastic or very optimis­ in Bombay some amulets and talis­ tic about the success of their goods in mans supposed to have divine powers the market in the beginning, and when of protecting people from evil are they collapse within a year or two, being sold. This might also form sub­ become wiser with experience; but ject matters of trade mark. All these the trade mark continues to linger on things must be denied the benefit of the register without any use, and having a trade mark. That is what I obstructing others from using the have submitted should be the basic same trade mark. I, therefore, think object of this. I do not think that the the period of seven years should be Bill as it stands will be able to attain reduced to five years. that object. There is another important recom­ 13.07 hrs. mendation made that the offices of [M r. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair] trade marks and patents and designs should be amalgamated. I have seen, With regard to maintenance of Re­ that there is considerable unanimity of gister A and B, I think it is a very opinion on this subject, but I for one welcome innovation which ought to fail to see how that is going to helpi be accepted. However, I am of the Patents and designs form an alto­ opinion that most of the goods which gether different subject Trade marks- come up for registration have no are totally different. By combining- 1*7 *7 Trade and 7 MAY 1958 Merchandise Marks Bill 13718

the two, how is efficiency going to be Thirdly, there should be cancella­ increased? I have not been able to tion of the trade marks of such firms. find out this from the opening speech If a firm, company or individual is of the hon. Minister in charge of the responsible, then all the trade marks BUL My own opinion is this, that of that particular firm, company or in­ the two things must be kept com­ dividual should be cancelled for a pletely apart. Their bases are diffe­ period of, let us say, three years mini­ rent, and the work relating to both mum, because a firm which dishonest­ will suffer if ultimately the responsi­ ly exploits the public by using one bility of administering both the things particular trade mark cannot be en­ is thrown upon one person. You will trusted with the use of other trade appreciate the fact that in the admi­ marks. On that principle I would say nistration of patents and designs what that should also be prescribed. is required by the department is a Then there should be prescribed a man with technical experience, a man disqualification to apply for trade who has graduated in science, where­ marks for a minimum period of three as with regard to the other thing tiO years. Such people ought not to be such qualification in particular is allowed the benefit of any trade marks required. I, therefore, would request whatsoever. the Select Committee to go into this question whether it is worthwhile Finally, I would say that wherever combining the two offices. a person carrying on business has been convicted for the sale of spurious As I have said, the main point that goods under the law, he should be troubles people is the spurious use of compelled to put up a board promi­ trade marks. The Bill has increased nently saying that he has been con­ the penalties in respect of the abuse victed of such and such an offence. of trade marks or the use of false It might sound a novel method, but trade descriptions or false trade I appeal to the House to devise novel marks. But what is the in­ methods. A person would be far more crease in the penalty?—to two afraid of a provision like this, if he is and three years. But let us compelled by law to exhibit, -;ay, for not forget that there will be also the two years after conviction; such a Probation of Offenders Act, so that board prominently in his shop. this two or three years might be re­ duced to admonition or probation. If Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That can be we really want to check these people, made a condition of probation. then 1 would ask that the following Shri Naushir Bharucha: I am sure provisions to curb spurious goods must in that case these people would pre­ be incorporated in the Bill. fer to pay fine, or send a dummy to jail for a short period, rather than First, a minimum term of imprison­ accept that condition at all. I submit ment must be prescribed I do not that is a worthwhile, wonh-exploit- know how we will get over the Pro­ ing device in order to deter people, bation of Offenders Act, but I would because these people do sot deserve plead that somehow or other we any sympathy whatsoever. should see that wherever it is found that there has been an abuse of trade I have known of cases where peo­ marks so as to exploit the public, a ple have sold tablets certified to be minimum term of imprisonment tablets for cure of diabetes. Actual­ should be prescribed. ly, these tablets were nothing but sugar with some coating—something Secondly, there should be immediate which is contra-indicated for diabetes. seizure and freezing of stocks, and Things like that have happened, and the procedure in relation to the freez­ therefore I say that when a person ing and seizure of stocks should be has been so very heartless in exploit­ considerably simplified. ing the ailing and the sick, no mercy Tra de and 7 MAY 1958 Merchandise Marks Bill 13720

[S h ri Naushir Bharucha] should be shown to him. If he was law should be firmly and unflinchingly compelled to exhibit a board that he tightened up and improved. We have has been convicted under the Drugs to invent new devices to check this Act, I think that would have a very class of people which is becoming a salutary effect. serious menace to society. I hope the Select Committee will bear these It has been stated that the business points in mind. in spurious drugs is as vast as the business in genuine drugs, and today Shri Supakar (Sambalpur): I wish nobody is safe as to what he is pur­ to make a few observations regarding chasing even in a particular brand. some of the points which have only Another difficulty is this, that most been cursorily touched by the two of your Bill will remain a Bill good speakers who spoke before me. on paper because it is very difficult to implement it. The first point I will take up is the very high importance of the problem I can give instances. It has been relating to counterfeiting of trade known that certain of Godrej soap marks relating to drugs and food. The trade marks are being counterfeited, danger and the wide extent of the the same* stamp of Godrej actually mischief that is prevalent in the being used. It is very difficult to de­ country is beyond doubt, and there­ tect it, because usually the people fore it is absolutely necessary that the who counterfeit these trade marks are Select Committee should take some petty people who can shift their work­ more serious steps to prevent spuri­ shop from one place to another as ous drugs and food coming into the soon as there is fear of detection. market, and impose some severer res­ What they actually do is to make trictions on such nefarious activities. counterfeit dyes for well-known types In this connection, I am glad that of goods. They actually have a stock some of the provisions of the Indian of them made, and then immediately Penal Code have been incorporated dissolve the firm and go elsewhere. It into this Bill. But I have a sugges­ is very difficult to get hold of them. tion to make regarding clause 78 of Unless the Government assists those the Bill. Over and above making the proprietors of trade marks with their penalty in the case of drugs and food police machinery in detection, and do adulteration and violation of trade whatever you like, the business in marks severer, I suggest that Govern­ these things will flourish. It is no ment and the Joint Committee make use having very good clauses defining this a cognizable offence, so that over what is false trade description if you and above the person aggrieved or cannot implement them and therefore the proprietor of trade mark aggriev­ I submit the real difficulty is not ed or the consuming public taking putting on paper a fool-proof, knave- action, the police should be in a posi­ proof Bill, but actually implementing tion to take cognizance of the offence its provisions. These points will, and take action thereon. therefore, have to be taken into con­ sideration. Another point that I would urge is I would suggest that these are the regarding the requisites for registra­ points which ought to be looked into, tion enumerated in items (a) and (b) but the central point that is dominant of sub-clause 1 of clause 9. I have in any legislation with regard to trade looked into the previous law regard­ and merchandise marks would be how ing these strict requisites that have to to protect the consuming community. be fulfilled before registration. I find That is the dominating factor, and that it is consistent with the whatever changes have to be made recommendation of Justice Ay- must be made, and I think that the yangar in his report. But I xypx Trade and 7 MAY 1958 Merchandise Marks Bill 1372a

am thinking whether the Joint Com­ Joint Committee can find its way to mittee will consider it advisable to make provision for this contingency. take into consideration the inclusion I feel that a lot of mischief that is at ot the photograph of the person who present prevalent in different parts of applies for registration or some pre­ the country will be minimised. decessor in his business along with the signature of the applicant for n m * fag (firetarare): registration or some predecessor in f s sr«rr % ^ art his business under sub-clause 1 (b) of clause 9, because I feel that if the signature of the applicant or i. '5ft ^ some predecessor in his busi­ ness can be taken as an evidence s r fs k to t Jifwt firs of distinctiveness, there should be no | trt stir objection to photographs also, if the f»re Jrnft Trfc photographs bear some evidence of 1 distinctiveness. spt afr m t w t «rf^^TT Another point which I wish to make # ^ ^TTcft % STfaR A S3T before I conclude is the distribution % fw^TT f^rrr ^ 3 5 JjSfP* ^rT^TT of the trade mark registries in diffe­ rent parts of India. It has been said fo ^ sa f^ rn: ^rt * i w V that at present there are only three A parr t w s r s # ? s^rfere'T snFft principal places of registration, name­ ly Bombay, Calcutta and Bangalore. % t o SfTf rWH Justice Ayyangar has suggested that 351% ^TT t ST four or five more places like Nagpur, % f ^ r *r nFTT =errfeT sftr ap^- Kanpur and Delhi be added to this list. :,r m ^rr^r Over and obove this extension of ffTTT ST *FTcTT f, I the centres of registration, I would ?n: smrV | suggest that in cases where the goods of trade are only of local importance, wz rr^r r £ f a farcr to which Shri Naushir Bharucha has 3TT qT f^FT Tnf^T ^T spTt *TT ^ made some reference in his speech, t ^ ?*Rfr tt ^ it should be possible for the traders to have registration of such goods in oFTT t f^RTTT far ^ 5fT»T ^R IT f*FRT their own State or in their own area; *fr 1 Srfer hwt v t ^ and o n l y in those cases where the goods sold, for which trade marks w h f , ?rtr ^ :t t ft 7 ^ f w •* fr are sought to be registered, are of all-India importance or where the goods are consumed throughout the %r | fotfr

ly ttfsr TPrfa? ]

SWSFT favaT ?rk 3ft Tfrrcft VT# fv # w «TT fjRR ^ fv T5 T *T % W X W t I ^ ^ Op V tfarR T *Trf?T£t fsRT a T tV *^T $ * f k fr^T % amrr ■3rr ^*^af ^ g[ f^ Tf^R^r fvm ?rtr f*RF crthp 1 sqOfa srnr f at ^ srt w r % = # t q^fr 5> t fsR^rt Of f ^ r v t ~ 3 zm | ^ ^ ^rmT £ i xO>nF?T ^r^t T v t jfr fffcr | ?*r f t »t t v % ^ I «TT ^T?TT | f*F 3ft W 7t^5 qce f t jTRTT ^ I *T?T =nvTT f , ?T^> ^ :3TTW ^rr^fr frfcT ^ r *m t feqr ^ rtt t, ?*ft a^tv % tftafaflff *pt jrwr^r =^>qr ^ft d*i,i VT'ff fV»M I w r t 1 *|a *ft 't’ft jW w t ^ 1 ^ Ottt iTf st^r | Of t t ^ r v t Op^ft *i 1 m % vtt vt ^ravt ■?*?% oiif+i^M w nr ^t^tt ^rrffq 1 w O = rit % * r t vt $ gj wnrr % ^P til ’THT ^ TpJPFffT 'Mi ^ xt\T rfa tzx f3CT | q qr«T ^ s ffr sqOm a fV^ft sgfer v t ctt#t Oqwr Tf. ^ ^ t ^TPT 73 WT VT# ^ I im ft rHF wr^r % %t # t qr it^t O r srwr *rftrfa ^*r srr^ w ■*fr fa ^ rc ^tOtOt f ^ i r 1 *n?r ^t ?mqr ^ «ft V^fw rrVT$ ?*T rT^tlP Vt szr^qr ^•TT ^Tf^TT Op f5T =5ft¥T % *T*TT3r apt v t srr s v a t £ Op Op*ft >ft a rc v t ^ HT>T f t ?T^TT % I JTf tft TfsrceT *ttr ?r v w * f w ^ v t ^r^TT ^I%tT Of XV S^TT % T f l l ^ R Tfq^er fen srr t^t f ^nrvt tO>t*jt % ^TRTST *PT ?T 0 T cfl a ^ t q f 1^f t I WIT *t*<.Hi % q^% ^?r f^Fn srnr fv fw t ^ sprt v \ irtf^ ^ ^t |, ^TT 'N lP'lit fsRT cTT!^ V t «(dl ^ ■ji left ^ rfr vfy+i Tf'»i^*ii Opm ^nr ?^A W. f^RPT t *TT aft I *pft av ^Tt sfrrOt ?rft ^ 1 ^ sqfw - Ora £ Or fsFT sjrpnfrv ^ v t ^IrT ^PT% ^rr 5 T8 fr fa^Fft I vraT |'?*r anr ?t % f^r ?prT ftnp + II oil Ptri f+*ft "Tnr V tf ^TTT s^rfspT ^ 5ZTT7R aft ^T 5»fr tOshftt 5ftr ^nr »r ?mt f l w \ 4 »nT5Tcit g Or ?mT5r v r % t ^ ^fT ^rc ?TPr , (ft W WSTrH ^^51 ?R"o §T ^T’TT sra ^ ^ % Or ^ m r z v % r 3 ^rft | 1 a t *t f^ l 5TPT fv Ow ^ftlT VT =^t^tt Or w ’ffOrfa w q r f ^ K ft TFT | #t¥ ^ ^ JTT # Jpr Op Opjt ?Ff5ft h «fh: O ft qfdw fatff ^ m *r^t f^H' ’p rr % *ji < h + 5 * * 1^ 1 1 ^ ir^ tO>i^9m ^T»n

% fa t* fe ^ ty w rg =ffrqt if w 9R? ^ « rf^ r v t >ft ^ s r w Tf^r- arctft % 1 rnp ^ fM fa f |5 r t fTTB1 *rrr « f w ? : ^ w t -arrf^rr £ I #f«FST ft TOT I far ? m r ^ 1 trsfr BtfpRf V H t TT 5TW TTST W^K 5r^ ?ttf «pr anrpiT fFft ?rt p- W ^ ?flT OT HTO TfjpF£T SRT^T O T ^ 3 r ft crrqfi 3CTW 5(37T % Tnp s q f ^ srrft ^fftrt sNrt 5T5 sfrr ? 1 ¥1 nrfarorr ffprffr ^ fe r %z ?w g rs n g5r « r f y w ?f *rr*r ?ft *rf » r ^ n | ^nf^T | ^ ^ | f^ vr W ffa Jfftf f*TO S^rmfr ^ ^ OT f e p 'T frm Rt s r t t 3i> szrfwrrfr •?tt? ^ sr%*rr, r 5 ^ *m pr W ?r ^t^fTT % f?# ^TWf ?m t I *TT *PTT f^T ^tfTT I , ?ffc ^ szttTRT ^ f^ f^rr^r ^ =3ft f% OT ’fra ’FT ?mT o'5T HPr^T 3t^RT % fk n %^cT htw t OT^fT ^Tf?T $> I I ?f*KZT 5RTVT ^ T T % f%TTT ^ * *rfan ? n "arr^crr f % srept: *rfaf?r ^ ^ *j3n??r ^ ^nrf^tr, f% f^ T R T r t f^ T T s?J* f«p far* £ *rar t 1 srnt qf^rfHf?^ % ^tpt % t f t ?nRR % JTTa^cT ITT# ?HfRT- ^5f5TJ»T ^ M 3TT# f ,^ 5r^R ?f)r f t ^ s rk f t m RTTzmnflF ^fr *ftfofr f t sprr^ %*rfr tftfm i % ?ft map^ ^ T nft ft?fr 1

sncft i 1 ?*Pt *mpr f t * 5 3 ^ T ?> ^*ft ^ ?f»r ^ % 1 s f ttt I 1 ef5R% f t srra- vr. >ft sm^r 3 snrf tf* f yfrr£ ftrji’rr fsr^rr ^ rr ^rf^r f^r TT I ngt ft tfifti $ V* W h t ^fnr q-?T ^r?rr f i l o t o t ^ 'Tt fcRTT fw 3TT W T t ^ ft? STPT T5H ^T ffaT ^Tf?^ 3T?t ir? t o t TfoRf o t ?pr «r r qr?rr ^frt f^PT ?TKJft^r ^rar *r ^=mr 1 f% -JtTT 5T75T *r, ^JfFT if, fkwrr if m 1 n\ *&. -ft A ^jth ?r*h?rr f fr ? fr w ra m w 5!nn: o t^ tt v m qr^T ^ ^ r ’ErfWapT^ ?^T«P^T TO t , ?ft *rf¥?r f w r ^ f*p 3>»n *fk 3rgr ^rft v ^ x Tra de and 7 MAY 1988 Merchandise Marks Bill 1 3 7 2 8

[*ft *ar TT3T R n Q ^ y gTHrfi *t *ft fiWR far %w fip^r sjPrt ^ t o qj^rr fnrt *pt srfro r ftnT m 1 s V t Pp ? m f^ ft« rP p T ^ sfor vt ^ rfr ^,VJ I *T *Tf '•fl'WI ’sn^,lT f“F P»TO *flPr T f^rf jpt ft^rr ?jtc ^*ft ^ tir' -*#t ftaT 1% ^r% tfw r g rm ^ t t o - f t i *TT*T(fr *Jt WT v r «FT I W 5H TOT Pf4t v?, >ft ^ p t t ^rfftr p^r ^ r xfi^r ?r ^mrsr l*fl'»l ^T TfsR^TR" ft^TT '3rRfT ^ w*t< P u t ^t to ft^T % *rr sTft i w r t * t i ? n ^ ft fTff HTpRT =5fR- ^fr txT *TT T O P^ft TO ^T Tp3Tr|q?T arTRT sjf^nw 3SHT ^TfFTT t rft 3*T*rr *RTT fxpTJft T O ^ ’.TrTT S ?ftT ^T ^ ?WP5r ^T ^ t f I ^R7 P t^ jmUI % I TT = ^krr| A Pf#^T ^^TT P^ 5TWT *ptt3t ^ s r e r o f 1 ?*t ?rfirP?r anrft t t sr>';t *r*?. ** P t^ tt # A «ft sft % | fT^TT | A ^ j i r r PfT JPTT P^nrPrf 7*T TT P=rtt ^ Pp sptt ^rtf 3^r%r ^^tt Shri D. C. Sharma: Mr. Deputy- Speaker, Sir, I look upon this Bill' EpTT ?Pt3 V[ JT3TT TT ^7T & •TT *PTT l™ft as an ordinary citizen of India and asra**rr ^ ^rr f, Pp j t w t not from the point of view of a legal f e n 3TFT Pp 3WT l^rm- TT ^*TT pundit or of an industrialist or of a man of property. When I do so, I vRTPTT 5TT^ Pp "sir ?*T ^T iH f A ?T fTFT think that this Bill is going to bite ^T qr sfr ^ ^fr ^ P r f t *rsrr ft^^t much more than it can chew. By that I mean that in this Bill an attempt £ i t o t o ^ 3tz tfr ^ h t Pp jit^pp- ft has been made to combine so many ?ftT 5RT crf^pff ^JT TT vfr pTTK ^ Pp things, to bring together so many srt fi?fr are*«rr f *pp=ft f Pp un? different elements that I feel the Bill when it is passed will not be as easy apt# TOT SFTJS^S‘7 % PrP»T^ to implement as it should be. # ? rt

At the same time, when I read the debates and arguments in a court of notes on clauses, I And that every­ law. Therefore, the other suggestion where reference is made to the ambi­ that I would like to make to the guity of the previous Acts, the Trade Joint Committee is that they should Marks Act of 1940 and the Indian see to it that the infringement of this M erchandise M arks Act of 1889. It law does not remain so easy as the has been said that these clauses infringement of the law of copyright have been added in order to remove or other similar laws. these ambiguities. But I submit very Then again, I would say one thing. respectfully that this Bill itself is not Of course, this law is symptomatic of very free from ambiguity. There are the kind of society in which we are certain terms and things in it which, living. We are living in a competi­ I think, are as liable to ambiguity as tive society, in an exploitative society, the old Trade Marks Act and the and of all kinds of exploitation, I Indian Merchandise Marks Act. I believe the exploitation on the part would, therefore, request the Joint of industrialists is not always wel­ Committee to see to it that the charge come. As stated in the Statement of of ambiguity levelled against the old Objects and Reasons, this is a law Acts should not be made to apply to relating to industrial property. I the clauses of this Bill also. believe that the industrialists are go­ Again, I wish to submit that this ing to profit greatly by this law. But Bill has been compared with law of laws should never be one-sided; laws patents and the law of copyright and should never be a party to benefiting so on. To tell you the plain truth, one group of population and not be we recently revised the law of copy­ a party to the good of another part right, and being a person who is in­ of the population. Industrialists are terested in writing, though being a few, but the people who enjoy the person who cannot describe himself benefits of the industry or who con­ as a writer, I know that though the sume the products of industry or who law of copyright has been amended, it use what the industrialists make are has been brought in tune with the many. Internationa] Convention of Berne Therefore, in this Bill one has to and made up to date so far as interna­ balancc the good of the few against tional standards are concerned, that the pood of the many, balance the law of copyright does not provide any industrial advantage against the social protection to any writers whose advantage and balance the interests works arc plagiarised. The law is of the prc-ducer against the interests lame in this respect; infringement of or ihe consumers. This is what has the copyright is not as easy to punish got to be done. But this Bill does not as it should be. I think the same give any promise of that. This Bill is thing applies more or Jess to the law there only to protect the interests of of patents. I do not know whether those who have industrial property; this law will be made so tight—I do it does not give any hope to those not want to use another word, be­ who are going to make use of that cause the hon. Deputy Minister of industrial property in one way or Finance objected to that word one another. d ay ...... As has already been said by some The Deputy Minister of Finance hon. Members, the Joint Committee (Shri B. R. Bhagat): Who objected? should see to it that trade marks are I did not. the genuine indicators of the quality Shri D. C. Sharma:... .that the of goods. The trade mark should be infringement of this law does not a mark not only of exploitation, of remain as easy as it is now, that the profit, of monopoly, of commercial person who infringes the law gets advantage; ;t should also be a mark arrested and punished and not that indicative of the quality of the pro­ even the person who infringes this duct. Unless that is done, I tttink law goes Scot-free after discussions, we will be enacting a law which will, 13731 Trade and 7 MAY 1958 MerchondiM Murks BUI 13732

[S h ri D. C. Sharm a] no doubt, be to the advantage students or where to find all the of the industrial magnate and teachers. We were in a very bad of the trader, but will not be to mess at that time. It was said that the advantage of the consumer. I to keep the students occupied and 'would, therefore, suggest very res­ busy we should institute what was pectfully to the Joint Committee that called social service degree or certi­ they should look at this law from that ficate. They were very good at that aspect also, from the aspect not only time and met the needs of a parti­ of the manufacturer, the maker and cular social situation. I do not say the trader, but also of the user and that our universities did anything of the consumer. If they can balance wrong by instituting these degrees. the good of one against the good of They were necessary to keep the the other, I think it will be a great young men at that time occupied advantage done to this country and within the social context of the time. to all of us. But the social service degrees were not thought by some other universi­ Somehow I feel that according to ties to be equivalent to the normal this Bill, registration is going to be certificates and degrees. It is because made—if I can use that expression— they did not have behind them that cheap. I think there is going to be content of knowledge, scholarship etc. ta cheapening of the process of regis­ which they should have. Similarly, a tration of these trade marks. trade mark should be the hall-mark Sbri Snpakar: High fees will be of some distinctive quality. •charged. Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman (K um - Shri D. C. Sharma: But high fees bakonam): I am wondering whether are not the guarantee of high quality. trade mark has anything to do with I t says: standards. If anyone speaks about standards, they are totally different “It has been represented t* from trade marks. It is only con­ Government that many valuable cerned with registration, ownership trade marks in use are now de­ of the mark. nied the benefits of registration on the ground that these marks Shri D. C. Sharma: Well, I think do not satisfy the test of distinc­ my hon. friend is right because a tiveness prescribed under the ex­ legal pandit would look at it from isting Act and that it is necessary that point of view and say that trade to enlarge the field of registera- mark is not an indicator of quality. bility so as to entitle them to Why do we buy Pears’ soap? registration”. Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman: P eo­ I was saying that the trade mark is ple will reject those soaps which are a mark of distinctiveness and a high not good. kind of distinctiveness. But there is going to be a kind of cheapening of Shri D. C. Sharma: People win take this process by granting trade marks a long time in rejecting them and even to those who do not satisfy the when people want to reject them all test of distinctiveness. the legal pundits would gather to­ gether in order to constitute a kind Sir, I have been a teacher and our of a tribunal against the people. university suffered as a result of the P artition in 1947. We came over to I say that a trade mark is a mark East Punjab. Unfortunately, we had of quality. But if you want to serve then no schools or colleges and no only the industrialists by legislation, places to run the classes and the uni­ you can do whatever you like. But I versity. Only recently we have start­ say that this trade mark should also ed building a university. We did not be a thing which is productive of know where to accommodate the social good. You cannot have a trad e *37 33 T rad e an & 7 MAY 19S8 Merchandise Marks Bill 13734 m a rk unless that trade mark also in­ have been made with regard to that. dicates some kind of a quality. But if we think that the ordinary Otherwise, what is the good of hav­ police should be there to detect these ing a trade mark? For instance, you cases, it is going to be a vain hope. "take Pear’s soap. I hope I am not Of course I can see that the trader advertisting any kind of soap here. whose trade mark is infringed will be We think of Pear’s soap; it has a trade there to get at the person who has done mark but it is also an indicator of it but I have found in the case of the quality of the soap. So, I think copyrights that generally you do not that these trade marks should not be get at the person who has infringed made cheap. I feel that in this Bill the copyright. Our universities pub­ we are going to make it cheap. lish some books but these books are all published by some persons and What is that due to? Take the they sell them in the market at financial memorandum. What does the much cheaper rales than the unversi- financial memorandum say? It is ty books. The university has the said that the passing of this Bill will authority; it can catch hold of these necessarily involve some additional persons. The police is there. Every­ .expenditure but it is anticipated that body is there to help and yet we all the expenditure of the Registry never have been able to get at the will be balanced by the fees to be man who has printed those book3 in realised on new items for which fees a surreptitious way. We have never have been prescribed, the anticipated done that. increase in revenue consequent on the introduction of Part B Register, 14 tars. and the resultant economy consequent on the amalgamation of the Patent If you are going to have the sanc­ Office and the Trade Marks Registry. tity of trade mark, if you are going to stand for the dignity of trade I have nothing to say against the marks, how are you going to get at amalgamation. It may promote effi­ the persons who have false trade ciency. But the introduction of a part marks and false trade descriptions? I (b) register is not conducive’ to the think the Bill will defeat its own end, realisation of the object. That is going because the police that you have at to be a commercial concern set up present will not be able to tackle this to look after the other commercial problem. Therefore, you have got to concerns and this concern will justify set up a special unit of police to deal its existence only by the number of with this. 1 think a special unit of trade marks issued and certificates issued because it has been said here police should be set up to deal that it will be self-supporting and with the Law of Trade Marks, self-paying. This kind of dependence the Law of Patents and Copy­ is something of which I do not ap­ rights and so on. If you want to catch prove. I hope that some kind of a the persons who have false trade standard will be observed so far as marks, you should do that If you licences are concerned. think that the needs will be met with things as they are now, I think this We are living in an age of commer­ will be another law which will not be cial advertisements. There is no operative. It will neither be dead nor doubt about it. As time progresses alive—I do not want to say that this commercial advertisements will as­ law will be obsolescent or moribund. sume more and more important role This law will not be very effective. in our life and in our economy. I do not want to enter into the ethics of I say this because, if you look at commercial advertisement and I do the newspapers—the language news­ not want to say anything about that. papers c" even the English news­ But something has got to be done, as papers—you will find that they are is said in this Bill, with regard to specialising in advertising patent tfalse trade marks. Many suggestions medicines. They have also now taken Tra de and 7 MAY 1858 Merchandise Markt Bill 13736

[Sh ri D. C. Sharma] to the advertisement of special kinds which was written the wrong that he of food. Sir,, I was reading a book on had committed. The poet has said that advertisements on spurious drugs. I that did him a lot of good. Sometimes, was told about a drug called Bunco by making a clean |sreast of your and the advertisement was "Bunco crime or sin reduce its recurrence will buck you up.” and you reduce its incidence in An Hon. Member: Did you use it? future. Shri D. C. Sharma: This drug is Therefore, so far as these things are not to be found in India; it is found concerned, I think the punishment in some other country—I do not want should be made as stringent as possi­ to mention its name. The man made ble; because the man who gives spu­ rious drugs is a poisoner of society, millions out of this drug. When some­ body asked him what magic was the man who gives spurious articles there in his drug, he said: “There is of food is a criminal of the highest no magic. This drug is distilled water order. I think the Select Committee and, perhaps, that does some good will see to it that the punishment for to the people who take it”. Of course, these persons is made as stringent as. that drug cannot be harmful. Bunco possible. was not harmful, but there are other I find that the Ministry has looked kinds of drugs. I see victims of these at this problem from the legal point drugs so many times. They com­ of view—it is good—and also from the plain against these drugs. It is commercial point of view. They want because we have come to believe to make the Registry Office a self- in commercial advertisements, supporting institution. Well, it may these products are advertised be good; it may not be good, but I in the papers and, somehow, we want that they should look at this think that whatever is printed is very whole problem from the social point sacred and very valid, and is some­ of view. They should see to it that thing to which we cannot take excep­ something is done so that it is pro­ tion. Human nature is like that, not ductive of social good. only in India but elsewhere also. Sir, the period of renewal, which Therefore, this kind of thing has js now 15 years, has been reduced to got to be controlled. I think Shri 7 years. I do not know what the ad­ Naushir Bharucha proposed a solution vantage is. The only advantage Is to this problem which was, I should what is given in the Financial Memo­ say, very moral in its approach. It is randum, that they will get more fees. a moral solution—I do not want to I think this kind of approach should mention the name of this kind of solu­ not be there. tion. This kind of remedy has been resorted to by many great persons. Under clause 23, Sir, they can They have told the wrong-doers that correct the register or certificate or they must make a clean breast of the registration. I tell you, this is a loop­ -wrong and that they should not be hole for corruption. This is a loop­ afraid of making themselves, so to hole for many undesirable things. I say, conspicuous in the eyes of those hope very tight rules will be made on whom they have committed some for this kind of thing. I know that kind of wrong. I know about an Eng­ in our place when we want to correct lish poet, whose name I do not want the dates of births or other things, to mention. He committed a wrong and they lead to all kinds of undesirable his mother sent him to school giving things. him a slate on which was written that the boy had committed such and I would also like the Select Com­ such a wrong. He went to the school mittee to go through clause B as care­ w ith that slate round his neck on fully as possible. The requisites Mr *37 37 T ra d e a n d 7 MAY 1958 Merchandise Marks Bill 13738 reg istration in parts A and B of the friend Shri Naushir Bharucha, the register are laid down in this clause. right that is given to society. Pro­ •Of course, it m ay be perhaps useful vision is made for a trade mark which from the administrative point of view gives the right to society, or an in­ to have two parts of the register, dividual. There is one provision In but I would say that the transference the Bill saving that trade make may from one part to the other should be be registered with a view to give a made as strict as possible. right to society which may be formed in future. Therefore, it seems that I submit, Sir, that this is a good Bill, and it is needed by the exigenci­ this codified law will confer certain rights upon the society also. es of the time. Some amount of thought has been given to it and some painstaking efforts have been It is protects the individual or made to word its clauses. But I hope society as against another person in, that the taint of ambiguity which is competition in trade or commerce, it to be found in other Bills will not be may be an individual gain, but the there. gain to the society must be seen first. About caluse 21, I want to make We m ust know w hat will be the effect one observation. This clause contains of a trade mark which is registered a useful provision—to prevent threats or which is certified upon, on the con­ from scrupulous persons. It is a good suming public. Looking from that clause. But I feel that the remedy point of view, 1 agree with the re­ which is proposed will not in any m arks m ade by Shri D. C. Sharm a way help these persons against whom that when application, for the regis­ these threats are made. Therefore, if tration of a trade mark is made, the you want to save persons from the Registrar should not only see to the threats of unscrupulous persons, you formalities that are laid down, to the should kindly make this clause a restrictions that are to be put O f little more tight. the Central Government, to Me whether it should be forwarded to Sir, it is a very long Bill, a lengthy the Central Government or not Bill. I hope the Select Committee will to be forwarded, but also see, spend a good deal of time over it so first of all, whether the quality that this Bill becomes useful not only is good and ascertain why this as law, but also useful so far as the trade mark should be registered and administration is concerned and also what will be its effect on society. useful so far as the social good is concerned. Why I lay stress on this point is Shri Balasaheb Patil (Miraj): Mr. because there is an under-current Deputy-Speaker, Sir. this is a Bill traversing this Bill itself showing the which codifies three different enact­ intentions of the framers of the Bill. ments as has been stated in the State­ Looking to scheme of the Bill, we ment of Objects and Reasons appended find that first of all there is a Registra­ to the Bill. In the preliminary speech tion of Trade Marks. Secondly, there that was delivered by the Minister arc certification trade marks, false it was stated that it is intended to trade marks and many other things. curb the fraudulent trade practices. We find from clause 2(1) (c) that a Also it has been stated in the body certification trade mark means “a of his speech that the Government mark adapted in relation to any goods has policy that have been recently to distinguish, in the course of trade, developing in trade and commerce. It goods certified by any person in res­ may be true to a certain extent that pect of origin,-----mode of manufac­ these are good objects, but the main ture, quality, accuracy or other charac­ and the most important object must teristic from goods not so certified..** be, as has bene stated by my hon. etc. If we look to the scheme of this Trade and 7 MAY 1958 Merchandise Marks Bill 1374*7

[Shri Balasaheb Patil] Bill, this certification trade mark is a at any time. There are provisions to secondary thing. It is to be registered that effect, no doubt. But the thing is in Part B and not in Part A. What is that those provisions will be used only to be registered in Part A? They are in rare cases whenever there is a grave the trade marks that are up-to-date complaint made by so many persons on the register up to the passing of against the use of certain trade mark. this law. The point is this. Supposing, for the first time, the trade mark is used by a Furthermore, by the enactment of certain person or an association of this measure we are going to have one individuals, it comes in the market for type of registration in Part B. If we a few years. For a few years the have the object of entering these certi­ quality is very fine, and this indeed fication trade marks in Part B, we happens in the field of drugs and food- should also follow the principle that grains. The quality may be very fine underlies these certification trade and good for the first few years. marks and make some provision in the Thereafter it deteriorates. The con­ Bill itself to the effect that whenever suming person and the person who there is an application, the Registrar manufactures the goods or the person should look to certain other things who gets the trade mark feels that such as welfare of the society, etc. It those goods are sold because of the is needed for two things: first of all, trade mark. Take even the case of it will check the innumerable persons cigars and cigarettes. We find that making applications. The Minister in since there is a trade mark for them, charge of the Bill has given the num­ the persons are going in for them. ber of applications also, and he has That means these goods have some divided the country into four regions— quality. The trade mark is supposed western, eastern, northern and to guarantee the quality contained in southern. The figures regarding the those goods. But, supposing a person applications have also been given in uses those goods whose quality re­ the preliminary speech of the Minister. mains good for only two or three years. They come 'to thousands. That means The question is whether the registered so many persons come in and make trade mark should be in Register A or applications, reserving the right, be­ not. From this point of view also, cause, when once the right is conferred there must bo some provision in the on them, it will remain for seven Bill. The Registrar should make an years. That right will protect them enquiry about the things that are for that period in spite of their not given the trade mark. He must find trading in the particular goods or out whether the goods for which the series of goods. Therefore, this will trade mark was given continue to give them a right. So, if the Registrar have the same quality throughout the looks to the quality of the goods and period of seven years, and if he finds then register the trade mark, that will that at the end of four years the be a check on the number of applica­ quality of the goods does not remain tions. the same, as it was originally, and that something has been added, then Secondly—and this is most import­ the trade mark should be expunged ant—once some trade mark is register­ from Part A register. From this point ed, it is a valuable right of a person. of view also, the principle that must It will remain there for seven years. be adopted is to protect the consuming There are other provisions for the rectification, modification, cancellation, society. etc. No doubt, there is also a right for the Registrar to cancel a trade The next thing is about the question' mark, and there is the supreme right that was raised about the jurisdiction. to the Central Government to cancel Looking to the number of applications. 1374* Trade and 7 MAY 1958 Merchandise Marks Bill 13747 it is found that tbe applications are I submit that as there are so many made by persons living in every part applications, let there be so many of the country. The applicant may be branches, say, one at Nagpur. This is living in Kashmir or in some place in reiterated in the report that is given the eastern region. We find from by the Judge himself. That will faci­ clause 5 that for the purpose of thli litate the work as well as minimise enactment there shall be established a the work of the registrar and will give Trade Marks Registry. Sub-clause {2) easy approach to the persons who are of clause 5 says th a t the head office making the applications. shall be at Bombay and a branch I now come to the procedure that is office shall be at Calcutta. The Bill, as laid down in this Act. There is a it is before us, says that there will be funny thing in section 103. Suppose - one m ain office, th e head office, and I want to make an application. The one branch at Calcutta. In the speech section says that I should approach the that was delivered by the Minister, it registrar and get his advice. It says: was stated that there is a proposal to open new branches of Trade Marks “The Registrar may, on applica­ Registry and to provide that the High tion made to him in the prescribed Court having jurisdiction over the manner by any person who pro­ State in which a trade marks office is poses to apply for the registration situated, will have jurisdiction over of a trade mark....give advice such office, w ithin the territorial limits. as to whether the trade mark ap­ The number of places of Registry is pears to him prima facie to be in­ under consideration. The Minister has herently adapted to distinguish stated that there will be four places. or capable of distinguishing, as the He has added Madras and Delhi to the case may be.” list that is given in the Bill. What I So. the Registrar will give advice to feel, and the reason given by the a person who makes an application. Minister himself, is this. Supposing Of course, there may be some rule a person stays far away from Bombay, made by the Central Government for and makes an application. Then he fees for the advice and other things in has to run to Bombay and give evid­ this Bill. His views may be final; I ence before the Registrar. If there is do not know. Because, the power has an objection he has to come again to been reserved to thp Central Govern­ Bombay and answer the objection that ment. It is a delegated pow er of is raised. Supposing there is a ques­ the Government. tion of rectification. Supposing, as the Then, in the second half of the sec­ Bill itself says, a person is charged for tion, it is stated: using a false trade mark, then the only “If on an application for the defence that he can raise is that the registration of a trade mark as to trade mark has not been registered which the Registrar has given legally. That is the defence given by advice as aforesaid in the affirma­ this Bill. Though it was not provided tive, made within three months in the previous enactment, it has been after the advice was given.. ” inserted in this Bill. Therefore, a per­ son has to run again to the Bombay Suppose a person goes to the Regis­ High Court, and the proceedings may trar and get his advice after spending go on for years to come, because there money and time. After he has made are several cases pendings before the his application, what happens? Then,, High Court, in fact, before every High within three months he must make an Court in India due to the increase of application. That is the restriction work. They remain there for several put there. It further says: years. There is anxiety for the person, .the Registrar, after further as well as expenditure. Therefore, it investigation or consideration, was stated by the Minister himself that gives notice to the applicant of there should be new branches. So, objection on the ground that the Tra de and 7 MAY 1958 Merchandise Markt Bill 13744

[Sh ri Balasaheb Pa til] trade mark is not adapted to cannot go to the criminal court, be­ distinguish, or is not capable of cause there are provisions under distinguishing.... ” which only when the Registrar makes Now, under the first part of this a report to the criminal court, there clause, an advice is to be given. The will be criminal charges and proceed­ Registrar gives an advice in the affir­ ings will be instituted. Suppose a mative. Then, under the second part, person is accused of falsification or he says: no. Then, the section says using the trade mark of another. If that he will not be charged any fees the aggrieved party goes to the civil for registration. What 1 submit is court, what provision is there? There that you make the provision or re­ is a provision that it shall be institu­ cast the provision in such a way that ted in any court inferior to the Dis­ the Registrar will make the investiga­ trict Court. The words used are “In­ tion and consideration first and then ferior to the district court”. There will give a full length advice, so that are four or five courts inferior to the all the botheration that will follow district court. There are first class, after making the application will not second class, third class, senior divi­ sion and other courts also. Therefore, be there. when we have loose words here, there Then, even after the advice, there will be conflicts in civil cases. In is a lengthy procedure after section civil cases there are three stages. 18 and onwards as to how the applica­ First of all, there is the injunction tion is to be made and then there are against the infringement; secondly, formalities and formalities. Then ob­ there will be damages for the rights jection has to be raised by the other infringed; and thirdly, the question of person and then the advertisement. the profits that the other person might What 1 feel is that as soon as the have got. Now, this amount may run application is made, before the ob­ into thousands and the junior courts jections, there must be advertise­ will not have jurisdiction, because ment. The scheme as it is, is: first of they are bound by the jurisdiction of all application, then objections within Rs. 10,000 or Rs. 15,000. Therefore, three months, then consideration of these words ought to be changed. the objection by the Registrar, giving order, then the advertisement. What Then, this is a special law. It con­ I feel is that as soon as an application fers certain powers on certain courts. is made, the advertisement should be It confers powers on the Registrar. It there so that everybody will know confers powers on all High Courts to about the application and will have a hear appeals from the Registrar. chance to file objections, which will There is provision for application to save time and money. From this a civil court. Even then, a party can point of view there should be a file a claim under this law only. change in the scheme, in the proce­ There is no provision which says that dure. The procedure should be such the provisions of the Civil Procedure that the person will be harassed to Code will apply. That is very neces­ the minimum. He should spend as sary. Even if the right is given under little as he possibly can. the special law, there must be some provision for appeals from it. It may Further, in this codified Bill, it is be stated that an appeal will lie, as stated by the hon. Minister himself, provided in the C.P.C. That is also there are certain provisions in respect necessary. of the civil rights of the persons who get registered trade marks, and there Then I come to another important are also ciminal provisions. Now sup­ matter. Under the provisions of this pose a person is aggrieved by the in­ Act, most of the powers have been fringement of his trade mark. Then reserved to the Central Government. 3he has to go to the civil court. He If we look at section 69, we find that Tra d* and I MAY 1958 Merchandise Marks Bill 13746 the Central Government is vested with son makes an affidavit, he makes it vast powers. It says: before some honorary Magistrate or a noair or some person appointed in “The Central Government may, that behalf. He exclusively allows on the application in the prescri­ the witnesses to go there and speak bed manner of any person aggriev­ and that can be produced before the ed or on the "recommendation of court at any time. the Registrar, and after giv­ ing the proprietor an opportunity 14-30 hrs, of opposing the application or I Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman in the recommendation, make such order Chair J as it thinks fit for expunging or varying any entry in the register This has no advantage of cross- relating to a certification trade examination because after all in any mark, or for varying the deposit­ case, which could be said to be a ed regulations, on any of the fol­ judicial case, wherein we have got to lowing grounds ...... ” give justice—and justice is to be given—the most important thing is The clause further says: that wP have to see the truth in it .and neither a High Court and in order to get the truth, cross- nor the Registrar shall have any examination is utterly necessary. jurisdiction to make an order Hence, what I feel is that instead of under section 56 on any of those saying that evidence may be given on grounds. affidavit and thereafter if the courts think that evidence must be given in The Minister has stated in his person on oath, then he should take it speech that Government will adopt a it should be changed that the courts certain policy towards the trade and should take the evidence orally fol­ commerce. Once the policy is there, lowing all the procedure that is laid once the statement of that policy is down in the Civil Procedure Code or circulated and advertised, what is the Criminal Procedure Code and the need for the Central Government thereafter, if necessary and if it is having these powers in their hands? found difficult to get the persons before the court, then only by affida­ Furthermore, if a person is living vit. This way the provision must be in a corner of this vast country, he made in this Act; otherwise true jus­ has to run up to Delhi, appear before tice will be denied to the persons that the Central Government and give are aggrieved under this new codifled evidence and then get redress, if at Bill. all it is given to him. I would sug-\ gest that first of all the Government should formulate certain principles of Much has been said about the its policy towards trade and com­ spurious products in the trade. There merce and then these powers must be are provisions in regard to that. vested either in the Registrar or in Suppose, there is a false trade mark the High Courts, so that the persons or certain persons make preparations aggrieved may get redress very easily in drugs or goodgrains and if they and that also at a very low cost. are checked then first of all they will be tried in a criminal court. Further, what about the procedure Conviction will be there if the charge before the courts. Registrar, High is proved or there will be acquittal. Court and the Central Government? Secondly, their goods will be confis­ The procedure that is laid down is cated. There is also provision to that giving evidence on affidavits only. effect in the clauses. But, will it be No doubt, there are some advantages sufficient? A doubt has been expres­ in giving evidence on affidavits, be­ sed by so many hon. Members here cause it saves times, money and so that this will not be an adequate pro­ many other things. But it gives a vision for checking such type of un­ one-sided picture. Whenever a per­ healthy trade practices which are on 13747 Trade and 7 MAY 198? M erchandise Marfc* Bill 1 3 .7 4 8

[Shri Balasaheb Pa til] a la,rge scale practised in India. All this legislation is to define the rights these things must be looked into by and privileges and the liabilities sad the Select Committee and I hope that obligation to parties who take the the Select Committee will do justice precaution of registration. Therefore to all these grievances that are put the purpose being limited I would forth. very earnestly submit to you not to consider the extraneous matters how­ Sfaii Kanungo: Sir, the rather pro­ ever laudable they might be in con­ longed debate on this simple motion nection with this particular Bill, for committal of the Bill to the Select Committee has made my task I would submit that though trade much easier, because the necessity and mark is described as industrial pro­ the utility of the measure has been perty—certainly it is industrial pro­ appreciated all round. The purpose perty—it is more or less an intangible of remitting a Bill of this kind to a property in the sense that the value Select Committee is to have it exa­ has got to be built up by assiduous mined carefully so that more elegance labour spent on trading and establish­ and more accuracy can be brought ing the integrity of the trader. The into the provisions. No law can be other aspects of it are combined in perfect, but it should be an improve­ nature. One hon. Member suggested ment upon the particular law which that perhaps such property may not be it wants to replace and that is the conducive to the interests of society only excuse which I have of putting as a whole. I do not see how that this particular Bill before the House. situation can arise because the protec­ tion of a trade mark gives an incen­ I would humbly submit that the tive to traders of integrity, to traders purpose of this particular measure is who have been able to build up ser­ limited and other purposes which are vice to their customers to earn the necessary and laudable by themselves benefit of their organisation, their should not be tagged on to it. For work and their integrity. To that example, the control of drugs is pro­ extent it is certainly a service to the vided for by a separate statute which society. has been discussed and passed by this House. There is no doubt that pass­ Further, a trade mark gives the ing of material as drugs which has not consumer the facility to distinguish the necessary potency or which is between known qualities and others. deliberately adulterated is certainly The reputation of a trade mark can heinous, but these tendencies can be be built up only by quality, though checked and are meant to be checked the qualities and other factors can by legislation which is already on the only be described and built up by statute book. If they are inadequate other legislation for which provision and if they do not serve the purpose, has been made in the statutes, not in then I very humbly submit that atten­ this particular one. The consumer tion should be paid to refining, amend­ has the advantage of identifying ing or enlarging the scope of such particular goods by a particular trade legislation. The saBM applies to food. mark which to him offers the qualities In any case, we have to remember which are associated with the product that apart from the legislation which and the proprietor. the House passes or which is already on the statute-book, the right to a I need not dilate upon the various trade mark also flows from common procedural matters and other points l»w. In other words, the right to the raised by many of the hon. Members use of a trade mark—a distinctive because the Joint Committee which is mark—can be sustained under given comprised of Members of both the circumstances by common law. Houses will go into them in great All that is required—to provide by detail. In the matter of jurisdiction •r.< ua rraaeand Merchandise 7 MAY 1968 Indian Stamp (Amendment) 13750 3 Marks Bill Bill I m ighi only submit that this matter that in other respects the Rules has been made more convenient from of Procedure of this House relat­ the point of view of the persons who ing to Parliamentary Committees register and who own the property will apply with such variations and it is an improvement upon the and modifications as the Speaker existing law of 1940. may make; and With these words, I commend the that this House recommends to motion for the acceptance of the Rajya Sabha that Rajya Sabha House. do join the said Joint Committee and communicate to this House Mr. Chairman: The question is: the names of members to be ap­ "That the Bill to provide for pointed by Rajya Sabha to the the registration and better protec­ Joint Committee.” tion of trade marks and for the The motion was adopted. prevention of the use of fraudu­ lent marks on merchandise be referred to a Joint Committee of the Houses consisting of 45 mem­ bers; 30 from this House, namely INDIAN STAMP (AMENDMENT) Shri C. R. Pattabhi Raman, Shri BILL Radhelal Vyas, Pandit Dwarka Nath Tiwary, Shri Kailash Pati The Deputy Minister of Fituute* Sinha, Shri C. Bali Reddy, Shri (Shri B. R. Bhagat): Mr. Chairman, Nibaran Chandra Laskar, Shri Sir, I beg to m ove:* Tayappa Hari Sonavane, Shri “That the Bill further to amend Akbarbhai Chavda, Shri Shiv the Indian Stamp Act, 1899, be Datt Upadhyaya, Shri K. P. Kutti- taken into consideration.” krishnan Nair, Shri Ram Krishan, Shri Jaswantraj Mehta, Shri As the House is aware, the Bill was Bishwa Nath Roy, Shri Raghubar first introduced in the Lok Sabha, on Dayal Misra, Shri Sunder Lai, Dr. the 26th April, 1958 and it was moved Sushila Nayar, Shri M. Muthu- for consideration and also partly dis­ krishnan, Shri K. S. Ramaswamy, cussed. But, in order to provide for Shri Jitendra Nath Lahiri, an important constitutional provision, Shri M. K. Shivananjappa, Shri it had to be withdrawn. It has been Chintamani Panigrahi, Chaudhary introduced again. This is a simple Pratap Singh Daulta, Shri J. M. Bill. I have already on an earlier Mohamed Imam, Shri Laisram occasion spoken about it and I do not Ac haw Singh, Shri Balasaheb propose to taken any further time of Patil, Shri Ram Chandra Majhi, the House in repeating what I said Shri Badakumar Pratap Ganga a few days back. Deb Bamra, Shri Motisinh Baha- dursinh Thakore, Shri Nityanand With these words, I move. Kanungo and Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri and 15 members from Shri Naushir Bharucha (East Khan- Rajya Sabha; desh): May I just invite the attention of the hon. Minister that this Bill that in order to constitute a was withdrawn because the recom­ sitting of the Joint Committee the mendation of the President was not quorum shall be one-third of the there. He must have, no doubt, ob­ total number of members of the tained the recommendation. But such Joint Committee; recommendation is not to be kept in that the Committee shall make the Minister s pocket. It has to be a report to this House by the first conveyed to the House. It has not day of the next session; been conveyed to the House. •Moved with the recommendation of the President. 13751 Indian Stamp 1 MAY 1968 (Amendment) BiU

Shr i B. K. Bhagat: It has been con­ Shri B. R. Bbafat: In this parti­ veyed to the House. cular case, if we had fdt printed a new' Bill with the sanction of the Shri Naushir Bharucha: How has it President, it would have taken some been conveyed? So far as the Bill is time and meant some avoidable concerned, there is no endorsement on expenditure. We followed this course the Bill to show that there is the to avoid that. recommendation of the President. We were told that the same Bill may be Mr. Chairman: That is presisely taken as circulated. Still, there is no what he wants: to explain why you endorsement on the Bill. have done it without putting it on the Bill itself. I hope this satisfies Mr. Chairman: I find in the Bulle­ the hon. Member. tin—I was wondering about it—it is said: Shri Narayanankutty Menon: (Mukandapuram): I want to ask one "The Indian Stamp (Amend­ question. Last time also it was said ment) Bill, which was introduced that this Bill was only just to round on the 26th April. 1958 was with­ off when the new coins have been drawn by the Deputy Minister of introduced What was the difficulty Finance by leave of the House as far as the Government is concern­ on the 30th April, 1958. ed to conform to the computation that The same Bill is being re-intro- the Government is following in pay­ duced on the 2nd May, 1958. with ment and receipts and why some the recommendation of the Presi­ other table is there which has no re­ dent under articles 117(I1) and levance to the equivalent quantum 274(1) of the Constitution.” of money in both the column?? Why is this particular method adopted: in Shri Naushir Bharucha: My submis­ which the normal computation rates sion is this. Such endorsement should are not here? be always on the Bill itself. Because, the Bulletin is not really part of the Mr. Chairman: What Shri Naraya- official communication. In the B ulle­ nankutt.v Men on .says, as I have tin so many other non-official understood him, is ...... things are communicated This should Shri Narayanankutty Menon: He be part of the Bill and it should be has understood well. He is just pre­ conveyed to the House. tending that he has not ...... Mr. Chairman: I find, so far as the factum is concerned, it is not ques­ Mr. Chairman: Order, order. Let tioned us not assume. He says, there is a very well recognised method of com­ Shri Naushir Bharucha: It is ques­ putation and table of variants, ex­ tion of procedure of communicating. changeable categories and why is it that you are departing in this case Mr. Chairman: 1 find the fact is from that and you have a new table. here. I have satisfied myself. He is That is> what he wants to know. referring to the endorsement on the Bill itself. Shri B. R. Bhagat: It is not that this Bill is only for rounding off or Shri Naushir Bharucha: Pxoper making merely adjustments. But, it procedure. has introduced a new table. We had consulted the various States who are Mr. Chairman: The Bill by itself interested in this. The proceeds will does not contain it. I find the practice go to them. They have agreed to seems to be to let the Members know these rates. It is not as if only it is through the Bulletin. I have satisfied some rounding off or adjustment of myself that the hon. Minister has ob­ old rates in terms of the new coinage. tained tne sanction. Definitely a new rate is proposed. Indian Stamp 7 MAY 195» (Amendment) Bill

gferl Nut;«ntiuttty N nw : See anna is mentioned, ten naye pais*. the Statement of Objects and Reasons. B y what arithmetic or by what logic thi-i special rounding off is done, we Sfcrl Nath Pal ^Rajapur): Sir, I would like to be enlightened. This know that horr. Members have ad­ is very serious thing. By a backdoor dressed themselves to this very method, the nation is being taxed cocent phrasing, a euphemistic way of more and the euphemistic, cogent, calling rounding off. In the S tate, sw eet phrase used is rounding off. ment of Objects and Reasons they This is not rounding off. I do not state: like to use the word robbing;—it is “Consequent on the introduction not very parliamentary—so I refrain of decimal system of coinage, it from using it. Nonetheless, I will is considered desirable to amend insist on being satisfied on this point, the Indian Stamp Act, 1899, so as by what calculation you round off to express the rates of stamp duty half an anna to five naye paise and specified in the Act and Schedule one anna to ten naye paise. If you I thereto in terms of decimal calculate it mathematically, you will coinage.” see the percentage by which you are increasing the duty. He is wanting The introduction of the decimal to say something. coinage is a very welcome move and Shri B. R. Bhagat: After you finish. we are grateful to the Government for taking this bold step. The nation Shri Nath Pal: This roughly works has expressed its gratitude too. Hav­ out like this—I would not claim to ing received our congratulations, why be mathematically very accurate—if give us this kick in the form of we take into consideration the in­ having this very fine subtle trickerv?— crease, on a rough estimate, the and I am deliberately using the word. increase that will bo passed on to the man who buys these stamps is to the Tn clause 4 it is said, '‘with a duty tune of 60 per cent. not exceeding ten naye paise”. In the first place, I would like to draw his In clause 13 of the new Bill, it is attention to the vagueness. What said: exactly is meant by not exceeding? In Schedule 1 to the principal It should be verv clearly stated what Act, m entries 13. 14. 27, S7, 47.... is meant etc., for the words, letters and Shri B. R. B hagat: That is the figures “half an anna”. . legal phrase. What does he ask us to do 0 Head Shri Nath Pai: I will be complet­ r> naye paise; for one anna ten naye ing: “w ith a duty of one” is substi­ l>aise. The logic of the whole thing tuted by “with a duty not exceeding collapses where twelve annas is men­ ten naye paise". How much Is m eant tioned. I would like to ask him to w here one anna is stated? That is convince me. Where twelve annas what I want to know. stands m the old Act, we will be giving 75 naye paise Work your own My very serious objection is this. logic. Five naye paise for two old I know that the hon. Deputy Minis­ pice or half an anna and ten naye ter and his senior colleague are very paise for one anna. For twelve annas, seriously concerned with augmenting how much is it? It would work to the finances of the Government. They 120 naye paise. have legitimate means open and the House is prepared to give considera­ What is the logic? If twelve anna tion to them. Wherever there is a utamp.s are equal to 75 naye paise, duty of half an anna under the old how does half an anna become five Stamp Act, they arc substituting it naye paise and how does one anna by five naye paise and wherever one become ten naye paise as you have *3755 Indian Stamp 7 MAY 2958 (Amendment) Sill

[Sh ri Nath PaiJ put in clause 13. If you proceed hai done in this Bill is not proper like that, then you will have to because the Government has followed give 120 naye paise where twelve a certain table. When the ordinary annas are concerned. I am afraid he man pays the Government or the Gov­ will have to satisfy this House about ernment pays him, there is a table this backdoor taxation, though they already accepted. After the introduc­ are very much in need of money for tion of the decimal coinage system the Second Five Year Plan. He is the country knows about the round­ shaking Ms head, but he should shake ing off of figures, and now if by means the foundation of my logic rather of this Bill he is going to introduce than shake his head. I fail to be con­ a new or nevel standard for computa­ vinced by any calculation, by any tion, it is very unfair as far the stretch of the imagination, by any Members of this House are concerned. jugglery that the old two pice or half an anna stands for five naye paise. If a taxation measure is to be there, Let him try to convince me. let him give the reasons for the taxa­ Shri Nftrayanankatty Menon: 1 did tion, let him justify that. The House not want to speak at all, but when will pass that measure of taxation, I read the Statement of Objects and but not even one pie from the com­ Reasons of the Bill, I thought it was mon man’s pocket can be taken away innocuous because it said it was without telling this House that it is a rounding off, and when I read the measure of taxation and that it is Bill I thought it must be a printing justifiable. I submit that this is a very mistake, but now the hon. Deputy unfair means of taxing the people, Minister, while introducing the Bill and Government should have taken has, I may use that phraseology, the extreme care to mention it clearly in adaucity to say that the intention of the Statement of Objects and Reasons the Bill is to have a direct measure so that we get notice that this is a of taxation because when he consulted measure of taxation because the State the State Ministers they were agree­ Governments want it. able only to such rounding off of figures. In cases of measures of ta» 3- I submit that in view of what is tion, whether we agree with them or written in the Statement of Objects not, at least the hon. Finance Minister and Reasons of the Bill and lack of used to come and say that it was a notice given to us, thic measure is taxation measure. The new unfair and 1 hope the hon. Dfeputy Finance Minister has got a philosophy Minister will reconsider these figures of his own to be frank with himself, which are not in consonance with the and he used to be brutally frank with ordinary accepted standards of com­ and he used to be brutally frank putation. sometimes too. But in this measure when he has stated clearly in the Mr. Chairman: If I may suggest, Statement of Objects and Reasons that the hon. Deputy Minister can give a it is a rounding off measure, why rough idea a* to what is likely to be should the Deputy Minister come and the additional revenue, because I am *ay that this is a measure of taxation, sure it is not a taxing measure, we are in order to increase the revenue? 1 not seeking to augment the revenues. subm it this is, to use very mild langu­ If he states roughly how much it i» age, making the hon. Members of this likely to be, it might help some of House misinformed about the whole the Members. He might inform the affair. I am using this expression be­ House what is likely to be toe in­ cause I fail to get a proper parlia­ crease in income as a result of the mentary usage for this sort of busi­ variation. ness. I therefore appeal to the Deputy Shri B. R. Bhagat: I tm going i» Minister that the rounding off as he explain. There is going to be some Indian Stamp 7 MAY 1066 t u r n (Amendment) Bill 13758 inc rease, may be Rs. 50 to Rs. 60 of ten. It is obviously ten and not lakh* or even a little more. five. From that point of view, one An S on. M em ber: T hat i$ round­ anna is 10 naye paise. two annas 15, three annas 20 and six annas 40. ing off. Shri B. R. Bhagat: But the point In this the States are interested, and we have to take the consent of the is this. I am sorry I did not repeat various States who , would be the the speech that I made while making the motion, although I explained this beneficiaries of this legislation. They were not all prepared for a reduc­ point fully, and If I had done so, it tion in revenue out of this. If we would not have needed the dramatic had taken the multiple of five, there logic of the hon. Member and also would have been a consequent reduc­ the harsh words which he used, viz., backdoor taxation. tion in revenue. Rounding off can be either at five or ten, it cannot be at Shri Narayanankutty Menon: I was any other stage. very, very mild. Shri Narayanankutty Menon: Why 8 hii B. R. Bhagat: I am going to not at seven? explain that it is essentially rounding Shri B. R. Bhagat: It would have off. It is not a measure of taxation, meant fraction and all oonsequent but because of the situation created by complications all along the line. Now the decimal coinage, if you take the multiple at the next lower level, it we have stopped at four annas or eight annas. Even seven would have means a considerable reduction in meant some increase in revenue. revenue, and if you take it at the next higher level, it means some in­ Shri Nath Pat: Yes, something. crease in the amount of this taxation. Shri B. R. Bhagat: So, the bottom An. Hon. Member: Not considera­ of the logic that it is a taxation ble here? measure is knocked out. Unless we reduce the figure, any other rounding Shri B. R. Bhagat: 1 will explain. off will increase it to some extent. At present*one anna is equivalent to So, I say it is a change in the rate, fl.25 naye paise. It can be either five because in the very nature of it, the or ten naye paise according as you multiple is such that if you fix it at take the higher or the lower multiple. the next point, there would be some The hon. Member has suggested that consequent increase in the figure. one anna may be rounded off to the Therefore, it is neither backdoor taxa­ lower figure of five naye paise. That tion, nor is it coming suddenly and would mean that one anna is equal surprising the House with this mea­ to five naye paise. two annas is equal sure in the garb of something, but it to ten, three annas is equal to 15 and is purely an adjustment in terms of «ix annas is equal to 30. So, it would the new coinage which we call— have meant this. What we have done though the hon. Member is allergic is that we have taken the next to it—rounding off. It is really round­ m ultiple of five. ing off, the m ultiple being five and Shri Nath Pal: How? It is fat off not one, two or three. So, it means from six to ten. a little change.

An Hon. Member: Why? Shri Nath Pat: It is sixty per cent more. From six to ten naye paise is Shri B. R. Bhagat: I want that hon. an increase of 60 per cent. Members should have a little patience. Then they would realise the logic of Shri B. B. Bhagat: You cannot have the argument We have taken the a multiple of one or two or three next multiple, not the lower multiple. without ■creating other complexities. Instead of five naye paise for one We would not solve the problem by anna, we have taken the next multiple having any other multiple. >3759 Indian Stamp 7 MAY 1998 (.Amendment) BUI 1376*

S hr t. N m 7ttukatt)r Mem; Hounding off means making a frac­ W R % *THT *Tf % t °® tion whole. That is all. wr jnmr ? ^tut m ?pnft ^ r ^ F f s f ^ e ? p t t 1 ^ « m Ehii B. E. Bhagat: The next stage W R 7 T ^ i a ^ ^ V I 1 f t of rounding off would be ten only. hw ft ^?n I 1 s m * It cannot be done by six, seven, eight or nine. STMT

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C. (Outer Delhi): =frf ^ v m r s Shri K. Nair After our having accepted the deci­ o t t mal system as a fundamental princi­ * ?fir l* m 4Tf ?T»K £T WTrTT t ple, this rounding off of these small pies to multiples of 5 nP seems to. * 0 TfT to «TT#r ifT 95* 7? jTPTT be very reasonable and sensible. If &*F *nflr 1 half an anna is raised to 5 nP we fa $*r f^n siptt ? sftr may ask why not one anna reduced to 5 nP. We may certainly ask that t z m *pt ? t jn»ft tffa; question. If it is 4 nP instead of pj*t ?r*r *TPr *ft t'jr, *fr$ 4 n r s * t ?r*rn" srfa should not be reduced to 5 nP which vfrn'i m*vr f% ^ r prrffr t v tr is also a multiple of five and which> also is rounding off. Of course, in Bfnff m fafrfcnn wtr ^^rr z n that case, you have to calculate what SFT fij^PTT £ I ?& 'T’TT jf ts R the difference in revenue will be. This is a sensible argument that arises JTjff ^Tffrl I *Tf? f.\ out of the principle that has been t I accepted, namely of having the decimal system. And this is what has been Shri Balasaheb Patil (Miraj): Even accepted here also in the DTS tickets accepting the logic of the Deputy always multiples of five. So, I think Finance Minister ...... that is sensible Shri Nath Pai: Was there any'' Shri Narayanankutty Menon: It is lid so much in DTS Shri Balasaheb Patil: ...... the logic of rounding off, we find that there is Shrimati Ila Palchoudhuri (Naba- a further difficulty about this, because dwip); I have also given notice of an the old coins are to remain up to amendment on the Lines Cf what the 1960 . hon Member has said. I think the genera] principle in rounding off the If we lo«k at sub-clause (2 ) of existing coinage into decimal coinage clause 2 we find: is to round off to the nearest figure. “It shall come into force on such A< far as that is applied, we have date as the Central Government no objection to the rounding off taking may. by notification in (he place: it is a lw a y s ;i matter of great Offltial Gazette, appoint.” convenience But if we look at the provisions in the Bill, we find that So, this Bill is not going to be put the excess that will accrue to Govern­ into effect immediately. So, what is ment will be 40 per cent in the case the difficulty in the way of the Stale of the rounding off of half an anna, Government or the Central Govern, 20 per cent in the case of 2 annas, m ent rounding off at this particular 5 per cent in the ease of 3 annas, and time? 7J per cent in the case of 6 annas. Therefore, I would urge the Deputy But the nearest figure for one anna Minister to tell us at what time this is 5 nP. Why should a 6 nP stamp will be made applicable, so that we not be made into a 5 nP stamp instead can understand the further implica­ of its being made to a 10 nP stamp? tions of that also. For, that is the revenue stamp that ic 13 ;63 Indian Stamp 7 MAY 1988 (Amendment) S ill * 57^

[Sh rimati Ila Palchoudhuri] used to the greatest extent by the com­ rounding-off measure. I would like mon man. And any increase in this will to explain the position further so that mean a hardship to the common peo­ this impression may go, and I hope ple. If it is made into 6 nP, the loss that when I have finished my speech, that may be incurred thereby will be that impression would go. Shr! set off by the increase in revenue that Sinhasan Singh also gave a piece of will accrue by the other increases. advice to Government that Govern­ So, 1 would certainly urge Govern­ ment should not do this, because it ment to look into this aspect and ac­ creates a bad impression. cept roy amendment, which they never seem to do anywhere. By I am grateful to him for that. That rounding off the 6 nP stamp to a 5 nP is exactly my purpose I would like stamp, they can bring some relief to to explain it a little further why the the common man, because that is the multiple of 10 instead of 5 was kept revenue stamp that is used on the and how it is that we have no option Rs. 250 deeds or w hatever it is. at present but to bring forward this Bill. When I mentioned the figure of Another point that I would like to urge is in regard to the period of six Rs. 60 lakhs, I did not mean that months that has been given within Rs. 60 lakhs would come out of this which one can convert the old stamps measure. Part of it is in the State into new stamps. I would submit that list, like the stamp duty on agricul­ six months is too small a period, be­ tural property. This consists only d ta use it may not be possible to change negotiable instruments like bills oi the stamps during that period. As exchange and others. It is bifurcated. you know, much trouble is occurring Part of it is completely under State every day over the old coinage and control. They have full jurisdiction the new coinage that has been on for over that list. Some of the States have some time; and a tram conductor’s already converted from the old coin­ •ear has been cut off over an altera­ age to the new. They have introduced tion on the taking and giving of this rate of 10 nP for one anna. This change. So, I think a period of one has been done in consultation with all year should be allowed. the States. The major States are un­ willing to have any reduction in reve­ In conclusion, I would repeat that nue. An hon. Member asked, why not the one anna stamp should be reduced have the multiple of 5 instead of 10? to 5 nP stamp, and not increased to I would ask her to request the State 10 nP stamp so ats not to increase the from which she comes to accept that hardship of the people. What is the difficulty in Government printing a proposition. Some of the States have already enacted legislation. If we do 15 nP stamp? it differently, there will be a lot diffi­ Shfi C. K. Nair: There is no diffi­ culties and complexities. culty at all. Shrimati Ila Palchoudhuri: There is So when I mentioned the figure of no difficulty at all. Why should they Rs. 60 lakhs, all that does not come not do so? Instead of its being in­ from this Bill. The Centre’s part creased, let it even remain the same; would be roughly estimated at say there will be no objection, and even fU a or Rs. 4 lakhs. As a result of that would be better. But, certainly, this changeover all over India, both it should be rounded off to 5 nP and the State and the Central revenue not increased to 10 nP. would am ount to Rs. 60 lakhs o r a little more by way of increase. So it Shri B. &. Blugat: I am sorry I is not a taxation measure that we gave the impression to the House that are introducing through this Bill. At this measure was in the nature of a the most, a few lakhs may be the taxation maasure in the garb of a figure as a result of this rounding off Indian Stamp 7 MAY 1&68 (Amendment) Bill 1376^ m easure. I hope this removes the not there. The new stamps are there. wrong impression that has been creat­ The stamps are generally kept by ed. institutions like banks who negotiate negotiable instruments or stamp ven­ Secondly, a question was asked: dors who keep stocks. It would be why not fix 7 instead of 10? 5 is half easy for them to convert old stamps of 10. What would be half of 7? It into new quickly at the new rates would be a fraction. Such a change within this period. So there would be will in any case mean withdrawing no hardship caused. The six month thi 9 Bill and fresh consultation with period is quite reasonable. all the States. The States have already given their consent and they have al­ With these few words, I would ready gone forward with their legis­ again request the House not to think lation. that we have come to it for back­ So there are great practical diffi­ door taxation through this legislation. culties. If the House wants that the It is m erely a rounding off measure, changeover should take place from the only to effect the new adjustments in old coinage to the decimal system, we view of decimal coinage. Because in should proceed with this now. An the very nature of things the States Hon. Member has said that the deci­ are interested, we have had consul­ mal coinage has created so many tations with them. Some State legis­ anomalies and we must remove them. latures have already adopted this We are doing it on all fronts. We are rate. We can only adopt this multi­ doing it by withdrawing all the old ple of 5, not 7 which will lead to a coins as speedily as possible. We are fraction. It would be either 5 or 10. doing it by removing this anomaly in If it is 5, it would mean reduction in stamp duty also. The intention is to revenue to the States. They are vital­ .switch over in toto to the new coin­ ly concerned with revenue and no age, whether it be with respect to State is going to agree to any reduc­ stamp revenue or coinage. tion of revenue. So it can only be 10. Under these circumstances we have I think the hon. lady Member refer­ adopted this rate. I hope with this ex­ red to the period of six months pres- planation. the fears that had been t ribed and asked why such a period created in the minds of hon. Mem­ has been prescribed for the change­ bers would be removed. over. Another hon. Member said that under clause 2, the Bill will not take Shri Nath Pai: They have been effect immediately it is passed, but confirmed. sometime will be taken. I do not think in a Bill of this nature we can be so Shri Narayanankutty ftfenon: The strict. The time is left flexible. No time hon. Minister had said that the total is fixed. But the intention is to apply expectation of revenue under this it as quickly as possible. Our inten­ would be Ils. 60 lakhs. Now he says tion was to apply it with effect from tha* so far as the Centre is concern­ 1st April. But now 1st April is already ed, the total revenue would be Rs. 4 lakhs. gone. Now our intention is to apply it with effect from 1st June. We have Shri B. R. B harat: About Rs. 4 printed the new stamps. It is our in­ lakhs. tention not to postpone it, but to apply it as quickly as possible. Shri Narayanankutty Men on: Is it not a fact that the increase in reve­ So far as the six-month period is nue, whether it is to the Centre or to concerned, it is fixed because under the States, would come to Rs. 60 the existing Act for refund in respect lakhs? of any old stamps, the period pres­ cribed is six months. We have follow­ Shri B. R. Bhagat: Yes, so far as ed that. It is not as if the stamps are the whole of India is concerned. 13767 Indian Stamp 7 MAY i«9S (Amendment) BUI 13768.

<8h ri B. B. Bhagat) I said that the increase so far as ever loss is incurred in the conversion this measure is concerned is only of the former could be compensated with respect to the Centre’s sphere, by the gain in the conversion of the that is, the Central List. Then there latter? This would mean neither gain are 13 or 14' States; they have their nor loss. At the same time, the pub­ own legislation. They will pass it. lic would not have been made to pay The cumulative effect would be some more. Rs. 60 lakhs or so. To m ix up th at Mr. Chairman: I think it has been am ount of Rs. 60 lakhs w ith the yield sufficiently answered. This is part of from this measure is not correct. the teething trouble consequent on Shri C. K. Nair: Are the recom­ the changeover to the new system of mendations from the States sent coinage. You cannot really have a after consulting us or after passing linking method for the Centre alone. them in their legislatures? This is the supreme legislature which has to Shri Sonavane: Here is a better decide for the whole country. Are we method, instead of raising half anna to decide this here or are the States to 10 nP which is something too to decide? much. Mr. Chairman: The Minister want­ Shri Nath Pai: It is very unjust, ed to impress on the House that so very unwarranted. far as the States were concerned, in regard to the subjects over which Mr. Chairman: I think it has been they had jurisdiction, some of them sufficiently discussed. I shall now put had already enacted laws declaring a the motion for consideration to the one anna stamp equivalent to 10 nP vote of the House. and so on. Here we are falling in line 1521 hrs. with the legislation which ha': al­ ready come into existence. It is no [Mr. D kputy-Speaker i?i the Chair] doubt true that this conversion is a Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question revenue getter, but it is not primarily a revenue getter. It is only incident­ ally that some more money is coming. "That the Bill further to amend the Indian Stamp Act, 1899, be Shri Sonavane (Sholapur-Rcrtrv- taken into consideration.” ed-Sch. Castes): Could not one anna be rounded off to 5 nP and half anna The Lok Subha divided. Ayes 120r be rounded off to 5 nP, so that what- Noes 29. Dlvlslon No. 12] [15.24 hrs. AYTS 1 jnf’i.L', Shri Abdul I.ateet, Shri ('iijruir.i Shjnkei, Shu Aji* Singh Sarhadi, Shri ( Uiatui vedi, Shn fhunjhumvjl.i, Slui Imacho»dran, Shn ArabaUtn, Shri Subbiah Ohoudhry, Shri C. 1, Anirudh Sinho, Shri Chunru I .a!, Shn J yotishij Pandit J, P. Arumugham. Shri R. S. Damani* Shri KuJika Sinsh, Shri Arurrmghsm, Shri S. R. Dav, Shn K. K. Kotnki, Shri Libdhjr Kcdaria, Shri C. M Athanna, Shri Das, Shn N. T. Babunath Singh, Shri Danappa, Shn Khan, Shri Osman AH Bahadur Singh, Shri Desai, Shri Morarii KhedJwr, Dr. G ». B w tfii, Shri P. B. Dube, Shri Mulchami Khimji, Shn Ktfitaiya, Shri Barman, Shri Dublish, Shri Banipal, Shri P. L. Dwivedi, Shri M. I- K m hnu, Shri M. R. Batappa, Shri C'.anapathy, Shri Krishna Chandra, Shri Bhagat. Shri B. R. fiandtu, Shri M. M. ICurccl, Shn B. N. Bhagavati, Shri Ganga Devi, Shrimati Lachhi Ram. Shri Bifbal Singh, Shri (rounder* Shri K. Peruitwjtnt La^kar, Shri N. C. Bofooah, Shri P. C. (iovind Das, Seth Laynu Bai. Shrimati BmSeshwar Prasad, .Shri Iqbal Singh, Sordar Maftda Ahmed, Shrimai* 337&9 Indian Stamp 7 HAY 1958 (Amendment) Bill 13770

Malvia, Shri K. B. Pillai, Shri Thanu Sbankaraiyg, Shri M aM n, Shri Motftal Prabhafcar, Shri Naval Sharma, Shri T>. C. Matfcttr, Shri HtrU h Chandra Raghubir Sahat, Shri Siddananjappa, Shri Mehta, Shrimati Kriahna Rtghunath Singh* Shri Siddiah, Shri Mfnbnata, Shrimati Raghuramaiah, Shri Singh* Shri D. N. iMIihra, Shri B. D. Raifah, Shri Slnha, Shri Sarangdhara Mohiuddin, Shri Ram Saran, Sh-i Sinha, Shri Satyendra Narayan Mortrita, Shri Ramaswamy, Shri K. S. Sinha, Shrimati Tarke^hwan M urmu, Shri Polka Rampure, Shri Sinhaaan Singh, Shri M urtl, Shri M. S. Ranbir Singh, Ch. Sonawane, Shri Nftidu, Shri Govindaraialu Rane, Shri Subbaravon, Dr. P. Nair, Shri C. K. Ranpa Shri Subramanj^m, Shri T, Noir, Shri Kuttikrishnan Rungarao, Shri Sunder I,al Shri Nehru, Shri Jawaharlal Raut, Shri BhoU Tariq, Shri A M. Nehru, Shrimati Uma Reddy, Shri Rami Tcwart. Shri Dwarikanath Newi, Shri Reddy, Shri Biswtnatha Thim m auh, Shri Padalu, Shri K. V. Roy, Shri Biahwanath Tiwari, Shri R. S. Pakjtoudhuri, Shrimati Iln Rungsung Suififl, Shri Tiwary, Shri D. N. Parrnar, Shri Decn Bandhvi Sahu, Shri Rameshwar L’padhyaya, Shri Shiva Dan Patel, Shri Rafeshwar Salam. Shri Abdul VedHkumwr!, Kumari M. Patil, Shri S. K. SumanYsinhar, Dr. Venkatasubbaiah, Shri Pattabhi Raman. Shri Sen, Shri G. VX’odeyar. Shri. NOES Shri Gods.or.i, Shri S. O. Nath Pai, Shri Uanerjee, Shri Pramathanjth Ooundor, Shri Shanmuga Parulekar, Shri Baaerjee, Shri S. M. Imam, Shri Mohamed Patii Shri Balii sjheb Bharucha, Shri Naushir Rur, Shri Prabhat Pad!, Shri V. L. Bra) Raf Singh, Shri Kaiti, Shri D. A. Rai* Shri Khushwaqt Bri> Narayan “ftrijesh”, Pandit Kmhna&wami, Dr. Ram Garib, Shri Ghakravartty, Shrimati Rcnu Kunhan, Shri Siva Raj, Shri Dige, Shri Matera, Shri Valvi, Shn Ghoaat, Shri Matin, Qa7i Vcrma, Shri Ramn Vhn Siibnnan Menon, Shri Nurayjnankutiv The motion wax adopte

The motion was adapted. V7, % fa *Wnr*T ^ 7 Sf|rT *TT' Indian Stom p 1 MAY 1959 (Amendment) Bill 13772

[eft f^trsr % ] Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is on alt T5. t. ftiwr swm l,ldl ^FT, faFT ? ,, WT* ^T qr qTrTT <5i M l WWT spt cTTTR % frdv ff t$t «tt 1 «rfw

Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. Jm rm

ITT TOT *TT I ^ ^ I T sary to look at the economic aspect of th-'se enterprises. W TSRT = 5 ^^, fsra% tfFT 5R37 ST f t v h " f^ -fir * m T 5 R ^ t s q ^ T T lopment of civil aviation had suggest­ d <.'♦> *PT «liHI I ^ *)*♦>! rPlfi ed that well-balanced development of civil aviation could not be achiev­ 5 ^ 9TR>^ «TS ^ <+> | ed unless we have side by side a re­ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question search and development section is: which could cater to the increasing “That the Bill be passed.” industrial needs of the air corpora­ The motion was adopted. tions. When I look at the reports, I find that even here our performance has not been anything but distressing MOTION RE: REPORTS OF THE IN­ and disappointing. DIAN AIRLINES CORPORATION It was agreed—and the Estimates AND THE AIR INDIA INTERNATIO­ Committee had also made a clear NAL CORPORATION suggestion to that effect—that Cor­ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: We can take porations should be, as far as possi­ up the discussion half-an-hour earli­ ble, freed from the octopus of depart­ er—we will be free half an hour mental officials. It seems the Minis­ earlier—and I suppose there will be ter concerned or the men who are- no objection. responsible for running these enter­ Shri Rajendra Singh (Chapra): Mr. prises have conveniently forgotten it. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, the efficient and So far we Wave not taken any mea­ well-phased development of civil sures to see to it that the men who aviation helps to impart strength not can actually deliver the goods are only to our military requirements put in there. Only the officials, just but also to our developing economy. as a matter of customary duty, are Looking at the performance that the put in there. This has retarded the two corporations have so far made, I growth of the corporations as well as feel distressed and disappointed. civil aviation. Sir, while the corporations were You will find, Sir, that the annual being brought into existence the reports clearly show to what extent Minister concerned had assured the we are incurring losses. Only a few House that while in keeping with the days before I had a talk with a very special and peculiar requirements of high official of one of the corpora­ the international reputation we are, tions and he told me that so far as for the time being, having two cor­ the losses were concerned no im­ porations, at a certain level of deve­ provement could be made unless re­ lopment both these corporations would bate is granted on oil and fuel. be amalgamated together. Four pre­ Naturally, 1 went into the details of cious years have rolled by and many the reports and made anxious en­ changes have occurred since then. quiries whether we could not make From the economic view point it was certain improvements by .effecting imperative to bring these two orga- economy in our expenditure. My en­ sations together so that we could cut quiries have revealed certain things down much of our superfluous ex­ which could be termed scandelous, to penditure. It seems that either the say the leapt. I shall come to them Minister has forgotten his assurance, later. or those who are concerned with the Sir, certain suggestions made by manogament and the execution of the Estimates Committee to bring these enterprises do not feel it neces- about economy in the operation and Motion re. 7 MAY 19S3 Report* of the fadkot Air- 13776 line* Corporation and th e Air India International Corporation IShri Rajendra Singh] administration of air corporations enterprises. That way, those who are •were not carried out. Firstly, the opposed to public enterprise will Estimates Committee said that the naturally get a handle in running us work-load at Calcutta Base and at down. Bombay Base is something like 41 Again, it was suggested by the per cent and 43 per cent respectively— Estimates Committee that route pat­ I am speaking subject to correc­ tern should be critically re-examined tion about these figures—but so so that the routes which do rot offer far as the work-load at Delhi us any profit or which do not have Base is concerned it is only a much prospect in the near future little above 14 per cent and, there­ should be terminated and new routes fore, it was suggested that, in the which have certain good features interest of economy this base should might be opened. There are certain be abolished. This suggestion was routes where our losses are over 75 made more than a year ago. 1 had a per cent. Out of 37 routes, in two talk with the employees as well as routes we are having over 70 per cent responsible officials, and they also of loss. Over six other routes our told me that the operation with the losses are something like 50 per cent establishment of an Area Base in and there are very few routes—only Delhi is absolutely superfluous. But six routes to be exact where we are we are having it, and in that way we having just nominal profits. So, •are incurring unnecessary expendi­ considering these aspects, you will ture. agree how urgent and how impera­ So far as inefficiency • in the opera­ tive it is to have a critical re-exa­ tion and management of the corpora­ mination of the routes. But you tions is concerned, you will find that could not do it. I do not know who after nationalisation rules could not is responsible for not doing it. be framed in a manner whereby those who were responsible for We have purchased the first in­ •operating the management at Base stalment of Viscounts. We have spent could be given sufficient power with over Rs. 30 lakhs on each. For the the result that invariably the men at second instalment that we are get­ the Base have to make references to ting, we will be possibly paying the higher authorities causing un­ Rs. 40 lakhs. That is, on every a ir­ necessary delay. craft, we are going to lose Rs. 10 lakhs. That way we will be losing As regards certain unnecessary ex­ a total of Rs. 50 lakhs. penditure, 1 would like to remind the House of the purchase of Heron air- Now, on the night airmail services, •crafts. Some three years before, we made staggering losses—losses '.eight Heron aircrafts were purchas­ which we cannot afford. So, taking in ­ ed at a cost of Rs. 70 lakhs. Now to consideration everything, we find we find that seven of them are lying that either the chief executives who grounded, either because of their are responsible for operating this "heavy running cost, or we do not public enterprise are not sufficiently "have pilots available today to fly imbued with a spirit of service oi them Besides that, our Minister has they do not have the commercial also confessed some few months ago sense. At the very outset, the Esti­ in this House that the purchase was mates Committee pointed out that a bona fide mistake. Now, if we can only those persons who have a coot- commit mistakes which would cost us mercail sense, who have sufficient over Rs. 70 lakhs, I do not know knowledge of these enterprises should ■what would be the future of this be given the responsibility. But th e country and the future of the public Minister possibly forgot it. Motion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian Air- 1 3 7 7 8 lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation Again I examined the balance- not end here. At the time of nationa­ sheet of the IAC and I found that lisation, Rs. 75,000 w ere outstanding Rs. 19 lakhs have been given to the from him. That was not realised, and agents as commission. We are hav­ Rs. li lakhs were given to him and ing a loss of over Rs. 1 crore in the he has run away with it. That 13 IAC, and yet Rs. 19 lakhs have been my information. I do not know how straightaway given as commission to far my information is correct. I the agents. We have our booking speak subject to correction. If these office. This enterprise is completely things are there and if this is how the monopoly of the State and still things would proceed, I think that we spend on establishm ent, on office this corporate body, a nationalised and personnel, and we are having a undertaking, would be condemned and commission agent also. That way we those who are opposed to planning, lose Rs. 19 lakhs. those who are opposed to public ownership of enterprises, will find Another thing is advcrtisment. fault with us, laugh at us and decry Advertisements are made to secure us. customers only where there is rivalry or competition. Here, in this air busi­ I am very sorry to say all this. 1 ness, we have practically no competi­ am against nobody. If at all anything tion except in certain parts of Assam could be possible for me to do for and that too not on the passenger the labourers, or for that matter, for side but only on the freight side. We any of my countryman, in getting have spent on advertisement over them a job, etc., I can in my own Rs. 7 lakhs. I do not know for whose humble way subscribe and contri­ benefit these advertisements have bute. But then no job could be pro­ been made and the expenses incurreu. vided to anybody if that job cuts aft That way, Rs. 19 lakhs plus Rs. 7 the root of the economy that we ar* lakhs, that is, Rs. 26 lakhs, arithmeti­ here called upon to effect. cally, have been thrown into the gut­ ter. We could have saved that money Now, just see the PRO, a separate and that way economy could have department. The IAC knew w e ll b*an effected. that it is running through heavy losses. From every quarter cries are I visited certain air offices and I coming that the IAC is not managing found that the stationery kept there is >t£ affairs well, and some day we do so abundant that I was aghast and not know what would be the fate Of thought whether in a country where this IAC. But in spite of all this, a we are passing through critical sages PRO section was instituted, estabish- of development we can afford such ed, and who are in the PRO. luxuries. Bundles of files, stationery, Just in the newspapers it came furniture and other articles are lying out that now, at the aerodrome there just for fun and joy. On air offices, we will have blue-sareed balance, we have *ver Rs. 5 lakhs girls with fine faces. Do not say that spent on them. It could have been I am against women. I am not. curtailed. If the chief executive had Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Then he is a commercial sense he could have against fine faces. seen to it that necessary economy was effected there also. Shri Nath Pai (Rajapur): Or against blue sarees. At Calcutta we have an overseas airways travel agent. Rs. 11 lakhs were Shri Rajendra Singh: I say if advanced to that fellow and that fel­ there is any necessity of appointing low has run away with that money. anybody regardless of sex, you make He is untraceable. And the story does the appointment on merits. But if 137 79 M o tio n re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian- Air~ 1378a lines Corporation and th e A ir India International Corporation [Shri Rajendra Singh] appointments are made simply be­ I am again coming to the question- cause somebody has fine face, natu­ of economy. When they consider the question of economy, they should also rally this country will have bad day* to face. see to it that labour gets their dues and they are not unfairly treated, Shrimati Ila Palchoudhari (N aba- because they are away from the nor­ dwip): A hostesa has to be a lady. mal control of the Government. What happens today in the Corporation is. that some persons, who happen to be Shri Rajendra Singh: I trust that the favourites of the chief executive, the hon. Members will appreciate tl-e get promotions when they are not point of veiw that I am putting forth. called for. I can cite several examples, if the Minister would like to have I am against nobody, whether one be a man or a woman. them. Here I have with me hundreds of cases where those who did not M r. Deputy'Speaker: The hon. deserve promotions were simply ele­ Member wants to plead that even vated and lifted from the 7th and 8 th males can be good hostesses! grade to the 12th grade, which is such a big jump. In the case of a lady, who Shri R ajendra Singh: Not that. My a year before was in the 6 th grade, submission is that the Department is she is now in the 12th grade. This has entirely superfluous. The plea that brought about heart-burnings, wrang- was brought in for establishing that lings and resentment among the Department was that the passengers labour. They are surprised at it. If are being inconvenienced because the somebody is to be favoured or lifted, operators are very busy with trans­ he should be lifted up strictly on port matters and that passengers find merits, not because somebody happens it difficult to know particulars about to be the favourite of this man or route, time etc. If that is the problem, somebody happens to be the favourite why girls should be appointed sur­ of that man. There are hundreds of such passes my comprehension. Men who cases. In some cases, people who can discharge that duly efficiently, possess good qualifications and merit honestly, can be appointed. For that are just rotting for four or five years matter, one may be a male or a female, in rtrad" 5 or 6 , wherever they are, but there cannot be any distinction without any prospcct of going up. based on sex. It was demanded by the employees I now come to ano'-ier important that channels of promotion should be aspect. At the time of nationalisation available to ail employees, whenever it was stated that in Ihe matter of there is any possibility of promotion labour relations categories would be or going up and that there should not integrated and nobody would be be any unnecessary manipulations. allowed to feel slighted or unjustly 15.55 lirs. treated. " Since 1 then many committees have gone into it and recently a tribu­ LShhi B a r m a n in the Chair] nal was appointed. But when I went If on'y thought and attention is given to the employee.1;, I found that this to it, it can be done within one day. single problem of stabilising the But, it has not been done so far. There categorisation has not as yet been are only 19 categories, and 19 cate­ done, either by.the committee or the gories are not too many. If we give tribunal or the managemerit, With the careful attention to it, the problem result that there is a feeling of resent­ eould be solved in one day. ment among the workers. I hope the Minister will look into this aspect of Then there is the entertainment, the matter. allowance to the officers. Certain. Motion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian A ir- 1 3 7 8 2 lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation off icers are given entertainment allow­ diture on salaries and allowance* ance entertajn the possible custo­ comes to over 55 per cent. So, on one mers or those who approach for pur­ side you do not concede the reasonable chases. But, so far as my information demands of the workers and, on the goes, this allowance is straightaway other side, you just throw away money pocketed by those officers. These like anything and you play sixes and allowances are never put to the pur­ sevens. That is how you are running poses for which they are intended. I the services of the country. It is am not going to name the man, but something quite despicable. there is a man—if you send C.I.D. people, you will know that it is true— 16 hrs. whose house is full of bottles of Pepsi Another aspect is that there is too Cola and many other articles of much talk of autonomy of the public luxury meant for the customers, the corporations. I am all for it It is a passengers. That man is utilising it very serious problem, rather a very entirely for his own family purposes. critical problem, which is before the At one end you say that losses could country. To what extent and of what not be avoided, because the excise nature and character of freedom and duty and sales tax are too heavy, and autonomy should be given to the at the other end, something which public corporations and to what extent could have been easily avoided has public corporations should be account­ not be avoided. Something which able to the sovereign body of the should not have been expected or country is a problem which should thought of about big officers is hap­ have been tackled long long ago, pening. What a regrettable and dis­ Public corporations are not a new tressing situation it is! thing. It is not that only this country is having them. Some few years ago Thee, the civil aviation, Air Force it has sprung up. You had it in «nd the aircraft industry should have England. You had it in other coun­ «n integrated, co-ordinated approach tries also and there in the course of to this problem. Nothing is being done. Be it Air Force, be it civil operation people felt that authorities and the chief executives of the Cor­ aviation, be it aircraft industry, all of porations should be given the freedom them are inseparable components of so far as financial flexibilities are con­ the same problem. Since today there cerned and so far as certain commer­ is a very big and powerful Minister cial manoeuvrability is concerned, but in charge of Transport and Communi­ so far as responsiveness to the direc­ cations, I trust and trust fervently, that tion of the political hands is concern­ he will see to it that these three ed, that would never be sacrificed. important components are brought Trouble has arisen only where respon­ together so that phased and well- siveness to political directions has regulated development takes place. been avoided or sacrificed. Political Then there is an advertisement that direction which is responsive to pub­ certain aircrafts of IAC are for dis­ lic feeling must remain there. I have posal. Similarly, certain aircrafts of heard that the Congress Party has All are also for disposal. Both parts collected some persons to give certain of the same organ are disposing their suggestions about this problem, but I aircrafts. Naturally, when tht'y go to think the best course—and popular the market together, they will fetch a course rather—should have been that smaller price. They could have been em inent personalities of this House, conveniently exchanged and thereby irrespective of their party affiliation, we could have saved some foreign should have been brought together exchange. But that has not been done. and should have been called upon to The most distressing thing here is formulate the rules, the procedure and that the administration is top-heavy. the set up which could have guided From grade 10 to grade 19 the expen- the Corporation. Motion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian Air* 1 3 7 8 4 lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation [Sh ri Rajendra Singh] Society of Aircraft Manufacturers. It With the belief that today a very was a magnificent show—a show of an powerful man, a man with very bold effort of 50 years and their great vision, is on the stage as the Trans­ enterprise. But we do not want that port and Communications Minister, their bones should be laid in our land who will clear the augean stable and in that fashion, in the sense that so recast the whole thing so that many crashes have occurred in neither the concept and efforts of Calcutta. nationalisation nor the concept and efforts of public corporations could be A part from that, in 1948 th ere w as decried by people, who are hostile to a crash of an American airliner which planned economy and hostile to the carried a very valuable load of 40 socialist concept of society, I thank journalists and other writers and to you. these men, we want to pay a humble tribute from the floor of this House Mr. Chairman: Motion moved: who are not known perhaps by names. “That the Annual Reports of the To them and to all their families we Indian Airlines Corporation and pay a humble tribute. the Air India International Cor­ We should not forget our own peo­ poration for the year 1958-57, laid ple who crashed in the K ashm ir on the Table of the House on the Princes. The Kashmir Princes is an 13th November, 1957, be taken incident of the type which never into consideration.” occurred in the history of the world. Shri Joachim A lv a (Kanara): About Somebody planted a time bomb in the three years ago ...... aeroplane and so many valuable lives of the new Chinese Republic (Red Shrimati R en a Chakravartty (Basir- China)—men who were pioneering hat): About fiva y e a n ago. and who were going for a great con­ Shri Joachim A lva: I am sorry, ference, the Bandung Conference— about five years ago—when « are were lost. We had a number of our rushing through time, w e are forget­ own people in the Kashmir Princes. ting yesterdays and the world is They were our own men and eve* moving so fast— I w a s the last speaker girls and I would like to pay a tribute on the Air Corporations Bill, when it to the hostess, who passed her belt was passed by this House one hot to the pilot, perhaps wanting to save afternoon. I must not forget to pay his life at the cost of her own. my tribute to Shri Kaushik, who sat Coming to the Air-India Interna­ next to me on the same bench and tional, it is a very great pioneering who was taking a great interest in institution. We should not forget to that Bill. On the morning the day pay a tribute to the Air-India Interna­ after, i.e., the next day, he crashed in tional, pioneered by another great a “plane'. Though very late, I would man, Shri J. R. D. Tata, and supported like to pay my humble tribute to him by very able staff, who have spread because he took a great deal of inter­ themselves to all comers of the world. est in the Air Corporations Bill by The staff of Air-India International, moving many hon. Members here. It whether they be pilots, engineers, was a sad affair that he was dead hostesses or other ground or traffic within twelve hours of the passage of personnel,, everyone of them conducts th at Bill. himself or herself as an ambassador Ju st a week before that we had a of our country abroad. They are wil­ Comet crash in Calcutta. The British ling to serve us and to be ever at our are great pioneers in aviation and as service. I will not be doing any injus­ I mentioned to the House the other tice if I say that the men of our Inter­ day, I attended the Famborough Air national Airlines are more conscienti­ 8 how on the invitation of the British ous, more dynamic and ever at our * 3 7 8 5 Motion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports 0/ the Indian Air- I 3 7 8 6 lines Corporation and the A ir India International Corporation service then even the men, Whatever that may be, as and woman of our foreign long as they are continued we service. The people of Air-India would like one goal, one banner of the International are a new body and a same hue. We do not want one white pioneering body. More and more colour on this side and black colour demands are made on them and they on the other side. We want the Air- work for 24 hours, around the clock India International and the Indian without any rest and perhaps with less Airlines Corporation to be of the same leisure than our young men and brand of quality, service, initiative and women in the Indian Foreign Service. progress. If such be the men of our Air-India Th” Indian Airlines Corporation is International—unfortunately, I was now tn : by one of thr> ablest not present when my hon. friend officers of the Air Force, Comodj.v spoke and I do not know what he Lai. Not that it was badly managed said, or if he ever said a word of criti­ in the past, perhaps they faced a lot cism about our personnel in the Air- or ordeals in the beginning. They faced India International—I will join in the the teething troubles of the Indian tribute by paying my humble tribute Airlines Corporation with eight nurses to the men whom I saw last year in holding one baby, as I said, but just so many countries. I watched them now we have put Commodore Lai as in eight foreign countries and would the General Manager of the Indian again reiterate that the Air-India Airlines who with the knowledge at International is doing an excellent job. the Indian Air Force perhaps will be 16.8 hrs. able to integrate the Indian Airlines in such a manner that the Indian Air­ [M r . S p e a k e r in the Chair] lines Corporation and the Air-India May it continue with the same vigour, International would be two wings of efficiency and quality of service, with­ one mighty body, the other mighty out any deterioration in standards and body being the Indian Air Force, so may the high standards its founder that these three bodies, the Indian and pioneer and sponsor set in the Airlines Corporation, the Air-India beginning be followed to our greater International and the Indian Air Force, glory and to carry greater credit may be of the greatest service in times abroad. of emergency and when our security But that cannot be said of the is threatened, just as when the Kash­ Indian Airlines Corporation. The mir trouble was on, all the airline Indian Airlines Corporation inherited operators went to the help of the a very bad legacy. There were about nation and rescued as many lives as eight kinds of business houses run­ possible. I would like the pilots, the ning the different lines which were personnel, the directors, the managers merged into the Indian Airlines Cor­ and air hostesses of the Indian Air­ poration by the Bill which we passed. lines Corporation to be as much up­ They are having an annual loss of graded as they are in the Air India Rs. 120 lakhs and th a t loss they have International. not been able to reduce substantially. Starting with ground personnel, we They have perhaps given us valid want them to have very good work­ reasons in the sense that their payload shops. We do not want the Indian has increased by about Rs. 90 lakhs Airlines Corporation and the Air India and they have had to buy Viscounts International to be dependent entirely and various other aircraft. Deprecia­ on the Hindustan Aircraft Factory tion is very high. Be that as it may, workshops. That workshop is far away. we want a perfect airline, as my hon. Once in three or four or five years, friend said. We may have an integ­ the planes may go there for a very rated airline. We may have both the good check up. I would like to have lines under one integrated body. monthly, six-monthly and annual 13 78 7 Motion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian A ir-i37gg lines Corporation and the A ir I?idia International Corporation [Shri Joachim Alva] checks to be done by first class work­ pilots, not to forget the crew who shop and repairing workshop. The perish on the high seas. They have Air-India International must have one to be amply compensated. Provision first class workshop as it has in Santa lias to be made for their wives and Cruz and the Indian Airlines Corpora­ children, for the children until they tion should have one in Delhi or some come of majority age so that they may other convenient place so that the be well looked after by the Corpora­ bulk of our planes may be well looked tion as long as the Corporations get after. I think we have three Super enough loans from the Government constellations in the Air India Inter­ of India. national and 8 other Super constella­ The progress of the Air India Inter­ tions, making a fleet of 11 aircraft, 90 national has bfien really good during dakotas, etc., in the Indian Airlines the last year. Perhaps my hon. friend Corporation. They may be looked after is making his maiden speech. If he by both these workshops attached to has made his maiden speech, we wel­ each of these Corporations. come it. He has not been able to tell Ground personnel is very important. us in a pointed manner as to what are The pilots are very daring and self- the defects in the two Corporations. sacrificing. We cannot forget them. I would perhaps give him credit for Often I have raised this matter in this raising this discussion. These two House that we cannot forget the hours would give ample chance to dependents of the poor pilots who review the activities of these two Cor­ crash in the air. I was taken by one porations, which we won’t get if w e of our ablest pilot from London to had a whole debate on the Communi­ Fawnborough. The pilot made a very cations Ministry. We had the old important observation to me. I asked Minister Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri him, are you m arried. He was 35. He who took great care of these Corpora­ said, “I cannot afford to get married; tions. He was transferred to the I do not know what is going to hap­ Commerce Ministry. We have a dyna­ pen t j ni • tomorrow. What will hap­ mic man of Shri S. K. Patil who is pen to my wife and children if any­ familiar with Airlines problems. We thing happens; I would like to marry have as his Deputy Syed Ahmed a professional woman, a doctor or who has been a Government executive some other professional who will take in the past and who knows a lot about care of my family even if I crash accounts. tomorrow.” These are feelings that Some Hon. Members: Shri Mohi- Should not be there in the minds of uddin. the finest young men, men who do bigger sacrifice than you or me. Most Shri Joachim Alva: Shri Syed of us have been in the prison yards of Mohammed and Shri Mohiuddin are the land. We were never ready for very good friends and I get mixed, death. Some of us may have been unfortunately. ready to go to the gallows or be flog­ Shri Mohiuddin’s strong point is ged. Here are young men who are accounts. The accounts of each of ready to die. Whether it is the these Corporations is the Achilles heeL B.O.A.C., or Pan American or Qantas If we have a Minister who knows or Swedish Airlines or any airlines in banking accounts, he ought to be able the world, all the pilots are doing a to put his finger on the right ^>ot grand job. They are ready to crash and point out what are th e defects, in any part of the world, unknown where the losses are, how far the to their families. Perhaps,. their last depreciation allowances should be per­ remains are not got. I want the Air mitted, how far the spending of huge India International and the Indian amount on planes could be permitted. Airlines Corporation not to forget the Above all, in the matter of storey I Motion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian Air-i^jgo lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation w an t the hon. Minister, not only the planes that have flown before. Th® lion. M inister, but the M inistry offi­ people in Pakistan are depressed by cials, to keep a vigilant eye. Because the fact that six airlines will operate any amount of money can be spent in their territory carrying Boeing jets, on stores. I as a layman can’t under­ that the Air India International will stand how the engines that we want have in its fleet these jets but not to buy with the £ 1 million loan from Pakistan Airways. They regret that the city of London are being bought, Pakistan Airways are not able to come how the Boeings are being bought in line with the purchase of Beoing from America with 16 million dollar jets. loan from the International Bank I It is a happy sign that revenue per­ do not know how the engines are formance has increased in the Air being bought in England and America. India International last year by 42*3 But, I do know that there are manu­ per cent., from 19*6 million to 27‘9 facturers in England who make one million miles, with an increase of part or two parts and assembie them revenue from Rs. 676 53 lakhs to Rs. all together. A dozen people take 9(>4'88 lakhs, and the average reve­ credit for bringing out a plane in nue load factor from 55*8 to 66'3 England. Here, we are buying engines per cent. This is indeed commendable for Boeing jets from London with a increase in our revenues. The Air loan ,of £1-9 million and with a 11*2 India International has a fleet of 11 million dollar loan from the Inter­ Constellations as I said and in the national Bank, we are buying three fleet of the Airlines Corporation, there Boeing jets—707-420 which will be are 66 dakotas, 12 vikings and 6 Sky- delivered to us in 1960. Even in masters and 8 herons. They were not Pakistan,—some of the people whom I very fortunate about the experiment met have expressed their great anxie­ in buying herons. We have some­ ty that they were not in the where to burn our fingers sometimes. T u n immediately in 1960 for Beoing Aviation is such a mighty process that jets. what is good today becomes debris by Boeing jet is a terrific aeroplane. the evening and we may have to some­ From Karachi to Cairo, they say, a thing new tomorrow and plan some­ distance of 2218 miles, can be covered thing else for the day after tomorrow. in 4 hours 15 minutes; Karachi to We shall have to plan all our planes. London can be covered in seven hours, I want to know what encouragement a distance of 4051 miles; K arachi to the Air Lines Corporation and the Air Rangoon, a distance of 1946 miles, can India International are giving to the be covered in 4 hours 30 minutes. I budding planners, young boys in have not got the calculations from schools and colleges who can draw Bombay. Perhaps may be an hour or maps and designs for planes. Six two more. This will be a revolutionary thousand drawings are required to step. The Boeings will take us from make a perfect plane. You have got ■one point of India to any other point young boys and j:irls in the schools in the world or Europe perhaps in less who haw a fancy for draw­ time than wo could go from Delhi to ing maps for planes. Why don’t you Madras or Delhi to Bangalore. It is encourage them to make drawings? a matter of pride, that though we have I want to know how the Air India negotiated for a loan and we are still International or the Indian Airlines negotiating for a loan in London, Corporation encourages these boys and between London and America we are girls to make these drawings for going to have these three Boeings jets planes. From oui of the genius of our which will revolutionise our commu­ boys wiH come the builders of our nications and which will bring us plan.es. Just two or three men in nearer to London or New York or any Russia have done RU 104. They have other place faster than perhaps all th* very great engineers. They came with. 13 7 9 1 M otion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian A ir- -1 3 7 9 a.' line* C orporation and th e A ir India International Corporation [Shri Joachim Alva] valuable load of passengers abroad' the Rumanian Prime Minister. They and here in this country. Wfe should are the wonder of the world. They be very generous and magnanimous in have been able to win appreciation giving whatever allowances they and admiration even from the British demand so that our airlines can be side. It is a happy thing that Moscow built up as great pioneers in the skies will be within 8 hours reach by of which we may be proud. Tashkent. All the points in the world will be covered from one end to the "’shrimati Renu Chakravartty: This other, whether in England or America, is the first time that we are discus­ or Russia or China or Japan or Aus­ sing the IA.C. report where the actual tralia when these planes are pioneer­ loss can almost be offset, as has been ing in this line. One commendable stated in the report itself, by the feature of the Air India International excise duty on aviation fuel and the that I would like to place before the State sales taxes which we are paying. H ouse is th a t they had 3,846 employees They would really balance the losses on 31st M arch 1957 as against 3,395 and that is a good thing. The losses in 1956, and they have built up an too have decreased between 1955-56 employees’ co-operative bank. They and 1956-57. In 1955-56 it was have 1,137 savings bank accounts, Rs. 119‘40 lakhs; in 1956-57 it is which means that almost one-third of Rs. 108-79 lakhs. This is a good thing, the employees have got an account, but at the same time we have not yet with a total deposit of Rs. 2 lakhs. attained the level of 1954-55 w hen th e This is indeed commendable thrift m loss, though it was substantial, was a line where there are lots of troubles, less at Rs. 90'14 lakhs. where people are not sure of the Last year, to«, we pointed out that morrow, where age counts with either there was an anomaly between the the air hostesses or the pilots. The losses and the increase in traffic pas­ pilots can go off the records if they senger earnings, revenue ton miles are not up to the mark or age can carried etc. For instance, it is hearten­ wither them, or the air hostesses can­ ing to see that traffic has increased not stand for long the wear and tear enormously, according to the figures of of air journey. It is good that these revenue ton miles carried. In 1955-56 employees are encouraged to have a it was 36-39 million, and the revenue’ co-operative bank, and the manage­ earning was Rs. 808*60 lakhs. In 1956- ment of the Air India International 57 the revenue ton miles carried was and Indian Airlines also should see 37-921 million w hile the revenue earn ­ that their employees are encouraged ing is very high at Rs. 861*35 lakhs. to have more savings, that the In passengers, too, we have attained e employees right from the ground staff record. Passengers w ere 5,00,363 in ’ to the top, even menials, are given 1955-56; now it is at an all tim e record' air passages once a year or two years of 5,71,106. to go abroad so that they may take Although we might be inflated about a live interest in their organisation. this and pat ourselves on the back The employees have been complain­ that we have done rather well, yet ing, the pilots have been complain­ there is a rather disconcerting feature ing that when we passed our taxation which I want the House to consider. proposals last year or two years ago For some time past personally I have we were taxing their free passages. been trying to impress upon the Minis­ Now, these are small things which this try that something is happening in the House should take note of. By these field of cargo and freight. My hon. •mall measures we are not going to friend who initiated the debate did' earn crores. We leave crores else­ not raise this particular and important where, and we should not tax the free aspect, that is, while we ftod that the- passage* of people who carry such passengers carried have enormou»ly^ Motion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian A ir- 1 3 7 5 4 . lines Corporation and the A ir India International Corporation inc reased, cargo has fallen. The these non-scheduled operators charter amount of the load has fallen from our own planes, the IAC planes, for 53,856 lbs. in 1955-56 to 50,194 in freighter service and actually make a 1956-57, and as has been very rightly profit. If that is so, then we have pointed out, the loss of 70,000 lbs. of to take up this whole thing very air freight by the Indian Airlines seriously. 1 feel that there must be Corporation in the first half of the some sort of a department, a space- year 1957 is som ething th at requires selling department of the IAC, which investigation as to the cause. will study the market and will devise That is a very serious thing espe­ ways and means to book bulk loads cially serious because there are certain to be carried by air on a contract areas in our country where willy nilly basis, so that people who are sending we have to have connection by air. cargo regularly may under this con­ 1CJS5 hrs. tract basis send their cargo regularly through the IAC. We have to go into [S h r i B a r m a n in the Chair} this entire question. Otherwise I There is just no convenient route by think we shall be entirely losing this rail. Even people who by force of very important source of revenue the economic situation would be forced which, it seems, has gone down signi­ to travel in third class in trains have, ficantly. I feel that this whole ques­ now, because of partition, to fly. Even tion of non-scheduled operators has to- the poorest in Tripura, Agartala and be looked into from this point of view. Kailashahar have to fly. Our connec­ tion from Bengal to Assam, that is The report has put it in a very the commercial base, the main base roundabout way. At first it was diffi­ with the rest of India, is Calcutta, and cult for me to understand what they that connection has become very, very were trying to say. It says: difficult as a result of partition and “The decline of Rs. 4’29 lakhs the formation of East Pakistan, and in cargo revenue is due to a sub­ although we have to use the airlines stantial decline of Rs. 16'62 lakhs more and more for transport of cargo, in the scheduled freighter service we are told that today the cargo which was compensated to a very carried is going down. large extent by an increase in Some time back I had put a ques­ freight revenue from other tion to the hon. Minister, Shri services.” Humayun Kabir, and had asked him What did they mean by this? Very regarding the NEFA operations. At probably they meant that this was that time he explained, and he showed from other services, meaning the non- of course the figures, that non-sche­ scheduled operations. Otherwise I do duled operators had carried the bulk not know what it means. I think it of the freight, but he had explained should have been put much more it was due to certain difficulties which specifically. had arisen because of some trouble As a matter of fact, I even wanted between the IAC and the NEFA to point out that now we are finding authorities. But my information is that more and more non-scheduled that still in the eastern part of India operators are being patronised even from which I come where cargo traffic by our Ministers. As a matter of fact, is rather on the big side which can I was told that when one of our be a very good and useful source of Ministers went to tour Assam, he profit to the IAC, the non-scheduled actually chartered not directly from operators are eating into our freight the IAC—the IAC also has charter service. The reason for that has to planes—but he chartered from & non- be gone into very seriously. scheduled operator. I think, if I am As a matter a t fact, I pointed out not mistaken, it was one of Kalingas. in this House previously that often I do not know whether they actually^ '*3 795 Motion re, 7 MAY 1958 Re ports of the Indian A ir- 1 3 7 9 6 lines Corporation and the Air India Intema-tional Corporation tSh rimati Renu ChakravarttyJ chartered from the IAC itself. This of our revenue over to the non­ is the information I have. I should scheduled operators is a recommenda­ like to be corrected if this is not tion detrimental to our interest. correct because it is rather discon­ Now, I would just like to say one certing if it is a fact. or two things about our aircraft pur­ chase policy. Then again, I want to know also why it is that we have lost our service Mr. Chairman: I have to remind the in Nepal. Is it that the Nepal Gov­ House that we have got just one more ernment refused to have a direct hour to conclude this debate. May I route of the IAC with Nepal, or what know from the Mover whether he was the reason? Why have we again wants to reply at the end? brought about this associate body of Shri Rajendra Singh: Yes, I would the Indian Airlines Corporation and like to. have given it to Shri Patnaik who is, Mr. Chairman: How much time of course, a very influential man. He would he takr? has his links and friendship with very many high officials. This Kalingaa Shri Rajendra Singh: About ten to fifteen minutes. has become an associate company of 'the IAC. Sometimes, they charter our Mr. Chairman: He may take ten planes. What is the reason for this? minutes. 'Why is it that we have lost this parti­ How much time does the Minister cular line, this particular air traffic want? from the IAC, and an associate of IAC has now taken over? What is The Minister of Transport and Com­ munications (Shri S. JL. Patil): the reason for having this associate? Between both of us, we shall take I was also pained to learn a little about 40 minutes. while ago that the Burma Airways had actually wanted to give their Mr. Chairman: That comes to SO maintenance and repair work to our minutes. Shri Harish Chandra Mathur maintenance and repair shops, that is, also wants to speak. those of the IAC, but I was told that Raja Mahendra Pratap (Mathura): the whole thing was so mishandled; Shall I be able to get at least five the people came here, and they wanted minutes? to see the officials, but the officials did not have the time, and somehow or Mr. Chairman: I am sorry; there is other we lost that contract. And that no time. contract is now being given over to Raja Mahendra Pratap: I want only the base in Singapore of a British air­ five minutes. lines company. If this is true, then we have to think very seriously how Shri Nath Pai: We began half an we are going to make our IAC much hour earlier than it was scheduled. more of a commercial venture with The debate was to begin to 4 p .m ., that ‘go’ and with that zest which are but we bogan at 3.30 p .m . needed to make it a national under­ Mr. Chairman: But the time allotted taking and also make it pay its way is only 2 hours. and become a profit-muking concern for the benefit of the nation. Shri Nath Pai: But we could 'have used that time also. Although the Estimates Committee Mr, Chairman: I think Shri.Mohiud- have made many recommendations, din may take ten mlutes. which are worth the vtvV and very good, yet I find t>nt ‘.iv’ whole ques­ The Deputy Minister of Civil Avia­ tion of trying to give more and more tion (Shri Mohluddln): Y«w. Motionxe. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian A ir-1 3 7 9 8 lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation Shr i S. K. PatU: Then, it may be and even now I hold the view, and r e d u c e d to half an hour between both that is reinforced also by certain of us. technical experts who say the same thing, that our Dakotas can carry on Mr. Chairman: Shri Harish Chandra for a sufficient length of time and Mathur may take 10 minutes. So, in these aircraft can be continued in all, it would come to about 50 to 55 service. This is what the Indian Sky­ minutes. ways says: Now, Shrimati Renu Chakravartty “These aircraft can be continued should try to conclude. in service for several years, pro­ Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Yes, vided adequate spares are intro­ 1 shall finish in two or three minutes. duced throughout the net-work, at I had a lot to say, but I shall cut the same time speeding up the it down. I wanted to say something process of maintenance. There is about the aircraft purchasing policy. no reason why these old and The only point which I want to make trusted aircraft • should not give is this, that we had first the Vikings, excellent service and achieve then the Herons, then the Skymasters considerably more utilisation than and the Viscounts. There is no doubt they have been able to do.” about it that we want the most effi­ cient and the best planes. But the I cannot take up the question of utili­ difficulty is that we are in a tight sation or route pattern, since there is comer regarding the foreign exchange no time. But I do feel that this has And when we cannot even get through to be given very serious thought to, our steel plants at Rourkela and because the concluding lines of the Bhilai because of lack of foreign ex­ report say that although we have change, we have naturally to be very shown a lesser loss this year, we may careful as to how we utilise foreign not be able to show the same decrease exchange for our civil aviation and next year because of the costlier air­ our airlines within the country. Of craft. And these are the words that course, we have indented for the we find: 10 Viscounts. I do not want to go into “As a result of the introduction that matter. But I would like to ask of costlier aircraft. . . what has happened to the inquiry committee regarding the Herons. This We must keep this loss down. Other­ inquiry which has been suggested by wise, we shall have this constant talk the Estimates Committee should have that nationalisation has been the cause been set up. And it was also stated of all evil and that we should not that the utilisation of the Viscounts have nationalised. would be dependent on that, or rather, I should say, not dependent, but we Lastly, regarding the rebate on should study the report of this Heron aviation fuel spirit—of course, that inquiry committee and thereby be able matter is now before the ATC, and to utilise to the fullest extent the they have submitted their report,—I Viscounts. think that at least 50 per cent, rebate would be quite a reasonable thing. If There is a remark in that report we can have that 50 per cent, rebate, saying that we are now on the look­ then we shall spend Rs. 50 lakhs fess out for medium aircraft to replace the on fuel taxation, and possibly we may Dakotas. That frightens me. At this get and additional Rs. 12 lakhs on air moment, we would love to have the mail carriage. 'That will be a very best and the most efficient planes, all good thing'. Viscounts instead of Dakotas; that would m ean th a t '60 to 63 Dakotas are But I would beg of the Minister not going to be replaced by the Viscounts. to increase the passenger rates, B u t 1 bave held the view all along, especially, on the routes where there 13799 Motion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation [Sh rimati Renu Chakravartty] is no rail connection. He had promised In U.S.A., for various companies air­ a little while ago about changes in craft fuel or oil costs %• 8 cents per services for these routes and set up ton kilometre, and in one case it is Janta trips to North Bengal, Tripura 3 • 1 cents. In India, it costs 8 cents and Assam. I would beg of him to per ton kilometre. In the Nether­ see that whatever may be the recom­ lands, Japan and other countries—I mendation to increase the freight rates have figures for about 13 countries and the passenger fares for the busi­ here—the cost varies from 4 2 cents ness executive and other officers of to 6 • 7 cents and in one case it is 7 • 8 . Government—I have no objection to that; let him do that, but at least in Now, that is a very important factor which we have got to take into these routes where the poorest of the poor have to travel by air, there account. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty should be no increase in fares; rather, has said that rebate should be given, there should be an effort to bring into to the extent 50 per cent, on excise existence the janta airlines. duty. These questions are under consideration. But in order that the Shri Mohiuddin I am glad that we House may be able to put the figures have this opportunity of discussing in the right perspective, 1 have quoted the report of the IAC and the Air them. I would add one set of figures India International. Hon. Members more. who have spoken before have given the figures of the losses and the 16.42 hrs. increased capacity that has been [M r . D e p u t y -S p e a k e r in the Choir] created during the last five years. I shall not repeat those figures, because The losses to the IAC in 1954-55 the time allotted for me is only about w ere Rs. 90,50,000 and in 1956-57, ten minutes. Rs. 1,19,00,000. I would, however, like to mention Shri Joachim Alva: Rs. 1,19,40,000. one important factor in regard to the operating cost of the IAC, and it is Shri Mohinddin: Yes. to be exact. this, namely that the price of aviation fuel in India is one of the highest in The IAC during the same period the world. In India, the price of avia­ paid in taxes as follows: 1955-5S tion fuel is Rs. 3 to Rs. 3-8-0 per Rs. 96 lakhs and 1956-57, Rs. 112 Imperial gallon, while in U.S.A. it is lakhs. These are approximate figures; Rs. 1-13-4, in Australia it is Rs. 2-7-4, I am not going into thousands. I am in Pakistan it is Rs. 2-14-0, and in not stressing the point that the Air U.K. it is Rs. 3-1-9. Services should not bear the excise duties. They must bear the excise Shri Rajendra Singh: But what is duties ultimately in order that they the condition of freights and fares in may run on commercial principles. those countries? But at the present moment, when we Shri Mohlnddin: I shall come to the are in the early stages of the deve­ fares presently. There is an interest­ lopment of air services in India, it is ing comparative figures of the cost of an important factor that we have got the various items that go into lost of to take into consideration, that in air services. I shall give here only spite of the efforts made, a large por­ one figure about the aircraft fuel and tion of the revenues go into two oil. These figures are in terms of important items, that is, taxes and U.S.A. cents per ton-k.m, We here wages. The wages have gone up con­ usually employ the figure per ton- siderably. I do not grudge that, but mile, as the comparison is with foreign I wish only to indicate what is the companies, I am giving this figure per extent to which wages and other ton-k.m . allowances have increased during the Motion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian Air- 13802 lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation last three or four years. The total Air Transport Council that there amount of increase on account of shpuld be rationalisation in passenger additional cost in categorisation and fares. While on the one hand, the liberalisation of service conditions is cost of our aviation fuel is one of the over Rs. 50,60,000. R ecruitm ent of highest in the world, on the other, the additional staff—of course, there— present rate of fares is one of the low­ cost about Rs. 19 to Rs. 20 lakhs est in the world. The Air Transport and part of this additional recruit­ Council have said that except for the ment at least was due to the U.S.A. and Australia, so far as the fact that the conditions for employ­ tourist class are concerned, the cur­ ment were liberalised. I may inform rent air fares in India are by and the House—perhaps many of the large the lowest in the world. On the Members do not know about this— one hand, the cost both on account of that the normal hours of work in the wages and salaries and on account of IAC workshops are not 48 per week aviation fuel and oil, is high and on but 44. So on account of the reduced the other we want the rates of fares number of normal working hours and for passengers and cargo should not the liberalised leave allowances, the be increased. staff had also to be increased, and that Shri Braj Raj Singh (Firozabad): cost about Rs. 19,71,000. The addi­ What is the per capita income of tional cost during the last three yean India? has mounted up to Rs. 84 lakhs. Shri Mehladdin: It is very low but Another important factor that ha* it must be remembered that those come in during this year which will who utilise the aircraft are persons affect th e 1958-59 accounts is th a t in whose income is quite high. It is not 1957-58, the excise duty was increased. the villager whose income is only a The effect of it on the IAC’s consump­ tew hundred rupees that utilises these tion of fuel i® estimated at about services. It is those who can afford Rs. 28 lakhs a year. Sales tax has to pay the fares that are charged or increased. The States have increased perhaps may be charged at increased sales tax. That accounts for Rs. S rates in the next months that utilise lakhs. The tribunal has given an these services. award which has been accepted by Government. That will involve the Shri Slnfu«a.n Singh (Gorakhpur): IAC in an expenditure of about Ra. IS Is it not for the lower class of people? lakhs for the last 15 months and a Shri Mohiuddin: I hope a time will recurring expenditure of Rs. 10 lakhs come. by way of increased wages. The Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is open to additional expenditure on these items everybody who may utilise it. Tha amounts to at least Rs. 48 lakhs aircraft would not take into considera­ which the IAC will have to bear in tion the average income of the person part of 1957-58 and in 1958-59. travelling. Now, any increase in revenues that Shri Mohinddin: With these few the IAC gets by providing better words, I conclude. ■service and b etter am enities for Shri Harish Chandra Mathnr (Pali): passengers would be absorbed by the Sir, it is not only with some satis­ increased expenditure over which the faction but with a little sense of pride IAC has no control. These are a few that we can mention our air service^ facts which I wanted to place before the work done by the Air India Inter­ the House so that the whole pro­ national in particular. They have blem could be judged in the right maintained a high standard of effici­ perspective. ency and they have a reputation in Shrimati Eenu Chakravartty re­ the international air services. Today ferred to the recommendation of the the country can legitimately be proud 13803 Jtfoti«nre. 7 MAY 1968 Reports of the Indian A ir- 13804 ftntt Corporation and the Air India International Corporation [Sh ri Harish Chandra Mathur] that they have not only maintained* a got out of the integration will not be high standard oi service and efficiency lost on us. The standard and th e but also showed improvements In the pattern of work are different in the economic plane. They have done fairly two Corporations. In the international well. They have made fairly good pro­ services, you have a different sort of fits, particularly during this year when problems to be faced and certain they were laced with various pro­ different standards to be maintained. blems. Owing to Suez crisis, they had We cannot also forget that the other to route their planes through different Corporation has been constituted by airports where they had to face diffi­ the amalgamation of different com­ culties which they overcame in a panies which had very different pat­ commendable manner. So, they have terns, and standards. The administra­ given a very good account of them­ tion had very great difficulty in bring­ selves. I will not go into the figures ing about an integration of these vari­ which are supplied in these reports. ous services. If these two Corpora­ It is heartening and encouraging to tions are now to be amalgamated that go through them. will give rise to a sense of uncertain­ ty among the staff and it does not I would only like to make one work wbII. Let them work separately observation in this matter that they for some time and let the standards have not been able to just open up be raised. Let us see whether they new routes. They have, it is true, come to a proper stage when these intensified, co-ordinated and consoli­ two could be amalgamated. Certainly, dated the old routes and they have I do not suggest that they should work increased the frequency on the old as separate units for all times. But routes. But they hav* opened up I think we will have to examine these only one new route by taking the administrative problems and the uncer­ plane to Australia. I do not know tainties arising out of the amalgama­ ■why this particular route was selected tion of services. We have had some by the All because even according to little experience when certain railway themselves, this route is not likely to services were integrated. It is now yield a good revenue. It is likely to seven or eight years. We have been be a one-way traffic—it has been worried about thi.; problems: we had mentioned. I do not know for what to face so many difficulties. The integ­ reasons this particular route was ration has not been finalised to this selected. They could have profitably day. So, this uncertainty among the taken over certain other routes and I personnel does affect the efficiency and think the hon. Minister will be able to the working of the Corporation and explain to us why this particular the air services. I would rather like route—Darwin to Sydney—was taken to warn the hon. Minister to take all up and why they could not extend these factors into consideration before the service to New York and to U.S.A., he accepts the suggestion to amalga­ particularly in the light of our expe­ mate the two Corporations. rience of the increasing tourist traffic The IAC, I am sure, is also work­ which is already there and which is ing up. It had certain teething trou­ giving a very promising account of ble and it had inherited certain dis­ itself. advantages and in the initial stages The hon. Mover of this motion sug­ it did not v ork to our satisfaction. gested the amalgamation of the two But it appears that it is coming up Corporations. I am afraid I cannot now and I have read in today’s papers agree with him. I would rather a very heartening report that the caution the hon. Minister against traffic particularly in our home ser­ taking such a step in any hurry. I vices is very promising and it is hope the experience which we have likely that they are not able to cope: Motion re. 7 MAY 1938 Reports of the Indian Air- 13806- lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation w ith the fleet at their disposal. It India company, is now to be located. is very heartening. The Chief Minister of Rajasthan want­ My hon. friend has explained the ed that this office should be located difficulties in making this service less at Jodhpur for various reasons. But costly than they are at present. In the officers here, for the sake of near­ this respefct I have a particular com­ ness and for want to air travel faci­ plaint It is about the routes and the lities, do not want to go there. So it policy which has been followed. I starts a vicious circle. If in our de- hope the hon. Minister anticipates me. veloing economy you cut out th« My particular complaint is that even names of such prominent places which those places which were on the inter­ had enjoyed that facility for over 2 0 ' national air routes and on our hom« years, you can just imagine the feel­ routes have been cut out. ings of such people. I am unable—in all earnestness I have been trying to- 17 hrs. understand the view point of the Gov­ I particularly want to mention ernment, the view point of the admi­ Jodhpur. Jodhpur was one of the nistration—to explain it to my people. earliest places in the air travel. It There have been representations from was on the air map of India and also the Chamber of Commerce and other on the international air map. It has bodies. Even the Chief Minister has one of the finest aerodromes which agreed that if you start the service was built even before Delhi and again, he will permit his officers to other airports developed to their pre­ travel by air instead by first-class. sent sizes. It was the first place which 1 think these factors should be taken started an air club. Even today it is into consideration. It would be tragic a place where you are giving air and sad if in the wake of independ­ training—it is a centre for the mili­ ence. especially now when we are de­ tary. The ruler of that place took a veloping our services and are opening particular interest in aviation. He new routes, wc cut out such important was perhaps the first honorary Air places. Many other ways and means Commodore of India. You can just could have been thought about as to imagine, Sir, the feelings of the peo­ how this route could be made more ple of that place when they find the profitable—we can sit down and do place out of these routes. it. If even inspite of it my friend I do not know what their policy and has got only that short vision, that programme is. Are we to be scared bctnia policy and he only wants a away by small losses which are, pound of flesh by saying that if there again I mention, of a very temporary are Rs. 2 lakhs then we can possibly nature? There are certain factors have that, I would like to know what Which are responsible for these occa­ is the policy o' this Ministry, what sional losses. My friend will say that is the approach of this Ministry; they had watched this for a certain whether it is the short-sighted com­ continuous period. I would submit, mercial thinking on which they are Sir, if they had taken a fuller picture proceeding or they will take a proper of the thing, if they had taken cer­ outlook, they will take into considera­ tain other steps, even if they had tion vnnou'i other factors and give taken into confidence the Government the proper place to important cities. of Rajasthan they would have found I would implore the* hon. Minister to that certain steps could be taken to give f-erious thought to this m atter Improve the situation, and try to restore this service as soon I will just give him an example. as possible. You are shifting certain offices from I would only make a brief mention Delhi. The Salt Commissioner’s of two points in about two minutes. Office, which has under it now an All So far as the services are concerned^ 13807 Motion re. 7 K A Y 1058 Reports of the Indian A ir- 3(3808 line* Corporation and the Air India International Corporation [Shri Harish Chandra Mathur] an objection was taken by the Mover tive manner in which they have made of the motion that the percentage of references to these air corporations. X higher grades consumes about 55 per­ am glad that there is an increasing cent of the salary bill. But my hon. realisation in this House that aviation friend forgets that there are certain has become a necessity everywhere in peculiar services—and airlines is one this world today; it is no longer a of those peculiar services—where the luxury and it has got to be maintained technical personnel is always highly no matter at what cost. paid. We have got of necessity If everything is to be judged like a to pay them high, though the commercial enterprise that unless it patterns differ from department to makes profits it is not to be continued, department. Where you need highly civil aviation would have no chance technically qualified persons—ground in this country or, for that matter, any •engineers, pilots or hostesses—their other country in the world. I can as­ salaries have got to be high sure the Members of this House, and and the percentage of the salary they can also verify for themselves, bill consumed by them will be cer­ that even in countries where civil tainly much more than in other depart­ aviation has succeeded and is making ments where the establishment con­ profits today, for years together very sists more of clerical employee*. This colossal losses were incurred. is not a department where you emp­ People hare got to be made air- loy so many clerks and babus. T here­ minded. Many other things have got fore, we should not try to judge the to be done. Considerations of safety wroking of the corporation* by those and security are paramount in every­ standards. body’s mind. All these trends of mind He also objected to appointment of have got to be encountered before women as air hostesses. civil aviation becomes a commercial success anywhere. Therefore. I should Shri Rajendra Singh: No, Sir; I like to tell this House that if they ex­ objected to PRO’i and not air hostes- pect that by any magic civil aviation, ^ * whether it is international or internal, Shri Harish Chandra Mathnr: W hat is going to be a commercial success, I want to submit is that, while the they are really labouring under a mis­ services are open to all persons, there apprehension. are certain services which will attract I am saying this not because there is a particular sex; it is in the nature of no room for economy. There is room th>” gs. I w ill quote the ca ses of for economy and it must be constantly USSR. In the medical profession under watch. But, after having done and in the teaching profession in that you must not come and tell me USSR you will find that at least 60 very often that because a particular per cent—it is even up to 80 per cent— thing is not making any profit it of the jobs go to one sex, the female should be stopped. Here is my hon. se x . It is not because there is a cer­ friend Shri Mathur who made a very tain preference being given. It is in eloquent and powerful plea for these the rery nature of things and certain internal feeder lines connecting Jodh­ thingi develop. If a particular prefe­ pur, Jaipur, Udaipur, and others. rence is to be given, we should not Though he mentioned only Jodhpur, it get funky about it. includes many other things. I have Shri S. K. Patil: Mr. Deputy- been continuously getting letters from Speaker, Sir, I am extremely everywhere. The hon. Member also grateful to the hon. Members of talked to me privately that the pro­ the suggestions that they have made fit motive should not be the only *nd, particularly, the very apprecia- motive in having our aviation; because Mot ion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian Air- 2 3 8 1 0 lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation all these capitals and other important the Air India International are of the places have got to be inter-linked in highest order. Therefore, we must be aviation. Time is moving fast, admi- proud that in less than five years we nistraCdh is moving fast in a fast have made much progress. Of course moving world, and we cannot afford to credit must be given to those who be slow. Therefore, the House must ran these lines even before we took be ready for at least ten years to over. I am not saying that we alone come to have losses, and even more did it. But all that ultimately is a losses. I am not threatening that national gain that we have achieved. more losses would be there. Nobody If India is air-minded today—and in would be happier than myself if I perhaps within fifteen years we will could present a budget and say that be more so—much of the credit goes you have incurred no losses. Not to these lines and those private peo­ only on the international lines but ple who, out of their enterprise, did even in the internal lines. But even well. But they might have done if it does not come to that, for the many mistakes. But please do not for­ propagation of aviation, for making get that if that enterprise had not people airminded in this country been there, there would have been which they are not today, you will nothing for us to nationalise. We have to spend money, and a part of nationalised something and took over our money has got to go outside, of something, with some of the bad our revenue and expenditure of this things hanging over, but by and large, country. we must pay our tribute to those who Having said that, I must say that had the courage and who took courage within less than five years of the civil in their hands and did develop this, aviation becoming a nationalised en­ which is so beneficial to this country. terprise in this country, with these We have improved upon it, and dur­ corporations, we have rendered by and ing the last five years, we have done large a magnificent account of our something, both in the internal and service. I do not say so because I am in the international lines. If you take in charge of this Ministry, but take the account as a whole and not mere­ any impartial opinion anywhere in ly go to minutest details somewhere, the world, and I am very proud to where we might have made mistakes— say that today our lines, whether it is wc have made mistakes—by and large, the IAC or the Air India International, the sum total of it will be that we rank with some of the most progres­ have rendered an excellent account sive and most efficient airlines in the in thi - field. International world. Now, so far as the airlines are con­ cerned, the Air India International I can give you one illustration just has made a profit, as you have seen, to prove this thing. So far as the of about Rs. 38 lakhs. From Rs. S international traffic is concerned, it is lakhs we have moved on and on up to open to people, the passengers, else­ Rs. 38 lakhs. But even supposing that where not to travel in our planes we had not made that profit, then also because there are over so many lines, I could have said that even with a the TWA, the TAA, the KLM, Quan­ loss, looking to the excellence of that ta* and many other lines. But foreign service, the regularity of that service passengers prefer our airlines, apart and looking to many other things from Indians. If Indians prefer our which the foreigners applaud more lines, you might say that they are do­ than ourselves, surely this gain, al­ ing so from a patriotic motive and so though it appears U, be a small gain, there is nothing in their doing so, but is most commendable. even other passengers have shown a preference for the Air India Interna­ Coming to the internal line, it has tional because the efficiency and the been pointed out that we have made treatment that we afford +or in a loss of Rs. 120 7aklu. My hon. col- *3811 Motion re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian Air- 1)819 lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation [S h ri 8. K. Patti] ly developing, but it is a sense league has pointed out the facts. If of security that the people have you take into account the various got, namely, that this is a reliable items of cost, the accessories that plane, fast plane, more efficient plane. have been paid for, aviation petrol Therefore you see that it is almost and all that, and the wages—we have continually full. The figures that I given wages to the extent of Rs. 84 have got for the last two or three lakhs per annum after we have taken months suggest that it will always be this line from others—considering all a paying proposition. If you go at this that—a loss of Rs. 120 lakh is not a rate, as some hofh. Member has said, loss at all. I am not merely stating one might ask, why not have all Vis­ that because it is only so much, more counts and instead of ten, have 100 or loss could have been incurred. Noth­ 200 of them. I wish we were in a ing like that. As I said at the begin­ position to do that. Everybody would ning, I would be a happy man if the welcome that, but remember that if losses are completely eliminated and air-mindedness increases in India we show that instead of a loss there year after year, a point of time may is a profit. But even if you take all come when even to have 100 Viscouts these factors into consideration, you will not really be a luxury in this will find that the loss we have incur­ country. You can have that and your red is negligible. Whatever we might traffic wil increase. I am not suggest­ do, we have got to expand. Some hon. ing that it will happen tomorrow. But Member said that if some line is not until then some other methods have making a profit, stop it. If you go on got to be found out in order that our that consideration, possibly there aviation does not become altogether a would not be any line in India today, loss. because every line is bound to make a loss at least for five years or ten I now quote in passing some of the years until better craftsmanship, bet­ figures about the aircraft. The Air ter training, better facilities and bet­ India International has today eight ter everything is obtained. Then alone super-constellations as everybody the percentage of air-minded people knows and three constellations. We In India will increase, and then alone are having three jet Boeing aircraft there will be a solution. to which a very laudatory reference has been made. When the Boeing I shall illustrate it. When the Vis­ comes in, it will be a complete revolu­ count came, what happened? The tion in aviation: it has great speed; people have got confidence in the the normal speed of Boeing is about Viscount not only because it is a supe­ double that of any fast aircraft. It is rior aircraft with four engines, but 600 miles per hour. You can imagine because of its safety, security and what it means. It is not merely speed. everything. Therefore you will find It is speed in our habits and every­ that when you want to travel by the thing that pertains to aviation changes, Viscount either to Calcutta or Bom­ and along with that there is the pos­ bay or anywhere, out of 44 seats sibility of getting money or even los­ hardly any seat at any time is vacant. ing money. That also increases. These You have got to book your seat two three planes cost somewhere about days, four days or eight days in ad­ Rs. S crores for each plane. I think vance in order to travel by it. What the seating accommodation of each is has happened all of a sudden? Has 120. All these three planes, with the prosperity of India risen all of a their spares, are costing us somewhere sudden? All of a sudden has the pat­ about Rs. Ilf crores, and naturally, riotism developed among the Indian these 10 Viscounts that we have people, or has there been a sudden taken cost us somewhere about Rs. 40 sense of urgency or patriotism sudden- lakhs to Rs. 59 lakhs each. Therefore, Moti on re. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian Air- 13814 lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation abo ut Rs. 470 lakhs is the total, and them with a Viscount or with a Con­ with spares, etc., it comes to Rs. 7k stellation and much less with a Boe­ crores or so. Just think about th« ing. Some kind of plane has got to colossal price that we have to pay in be found out. Even the Dakotas need o r d e r that aviation succeeds in this not be continued after two or five country. years. A time will come when the Not only that. It is not enough that Dakotas have got to be replaced, and we have got a fast-moving plane. we have to make a choice. Sometimes Along with that, other accessories that choice prove? to be not exactly a have got to be brought into being, correct choice. It is very difficult. W e namely, the runway. The runways are a new nation in aviation. We arc have got to be extended. Big air just developing our aviation habit and terminals have to be built. You have the engineers— seen what has to be done at Bombay. Shrimati Bennka Ray (Malda): The other day there was a discussion Why not build some planes also? about it. For a jet plane, the run­ way has to be extended from 8,200 Shri S. K. Patil: Yes; very fine. feet to 12,000 feet. That runw ay is Ladies are more progressive than costing us somewhere about Rs. 4 men. We have built some planes our­ crores. That is a mere extension cost. selves. But they are not for use in There are other things that are going civil aviation. They are used for mili­ to be done there, such as meteorologi­ tary purposes. But who knows, with­ cal equipment and other things. I am in a reasonable distance of time we giving the House all the picture in shall be able to build bigger planes order to bring home one fact, and that even. All these things have got to be fact is that with the progress of avia­ done and sometimes the choice is bad. tion in this country we must be pre­ It was asked why Heron was chosen. pared to foot an increasingly larger I am not defending the mistakes that bill year after year and let us hope were committed. It is a mistake, but that our air-mindedness and our habit the mistake was done in good faith of using aeroplanes will counterbalance and the House must accept that mis­ that and that ultimately we shall be take was done in good faith. able to show better results. We want a small plane, which iJ So far as the Indian Airlines Cor­ manoeuvrable, and yet has got the poration is concerned, there also we maximum speed, because it has four have got quite a number of planes, 94 engines, which has a small pay load in all. Skymasters are six, Viscounts and which will have only 11 or 12 five, and they will be ten soon, and we seats. And the feeder lines, wherever have got a few more. There are 12 they are, will not get passengers. My Vikings and the Dakotas are 63. hon. friend, Shri Mathur, was quoting Herons, eight. Out of these 94, some what a Chief Minister has stated of them are not working today. Some about a rule that the officers will bo Members were particularly critical allowed to travel by air instead of about the Herons. I am not going ftrst-class. I wish they had made this into the details, but we have got to rule earlier in which case the poor meet the difficulty and make some Heron would not have got a bad name kind of experiment for the feeder and possibly we could have given a lines. Even today, I am flabbergasted, good account of ourselves. and I do not know how other bigger An Hon. Membei. They should aircraft could be used on these lines. have been consulted. Viscount is good; Boeing is good; Constellation is good; But surely for Shri S. K. Patil: I am not finding the feeder lines for Jaipur, Jodhpur fault with him. I am merely saying and Udaipur, I am not going to run the facts of the case. Therefore, Mot ion re. 7 MAY 1958 R eports of the Indian Air- i j g f t lines Corporation and the A ir India International Corporation [S h ri S. K. P atil] A n Hon. Member: You are taking because of the larger security com­ it too far. ponent that it has got, because of the manoeuvrability, because it can fly at Shri S. K. Patll: I am not taking it too far. My hon. friend has pointed low altitudes, take off quickly and out that if only we had not experi­ come back quickly it is favoured. Now mented it, we would not have had all all these things do count a lot, so far these losses. 1 do not want to repeat aa the feeder lines are concerned. Now that point here. a question was asked why the Herons were taken. We have made an experi­ Then, so far as the workers are con­ ment and much of the loss during the cerned, an hon. Member made a sug­ last so many years is largely due to gestion that the workers must be the fact that we have been making treated well. They are treated welL losses on that. We have now ground­ If the worker anywhere has got to be ed them and we are selling them. We given the best treatment, it is a work­ hope to sell them. Each ot them was er in the civil aviation, because he bougnt — 1 am speaking subject to cor­ deals with a mechanism which is so rection—at a cost oi Rs. 74 lakhs. very efficient that unless he himself There is also a sinking fund. They are is efficient, surely he cannot work. expected to fetch Ks. 5 lakhs to Rs. 5& Therefore, the result was that as soon lakhs. We are selling them. We have as we took these eight companies, already sold one to Hindustan Steel. they were very lowly-pai^ workers We have got seven more. When they and in order to bring them on par are sold, ultimately the loss will not with Tatas or the other nationalised be great. But the indirect gain that concerns we had to increase the wage this country has got, namely that bill and it came to about Rs. 84 lakhs those people have got accustomed to of rupees for one single item in 1956- all this, that , outweigh the disad­ 57. And that will explain to you why vantage. Now a man in the street can these losses have got to be made or say wnat are the qualities of the Vik­ are made. ings, Super-Constellation and the Con­ Now, I do not want to go into the stellation, contrast them and compare details. I will only refer to one or and so on. All that means knowledge two points which the hon. Members and that knowledge certainly muit be have made. The hon. Member, Shri paid for. We do not simply get it for Rajendra Singh referred to economy. nothing. We get it because all this We are watchful of the economy. We has come and because people are be­ are always thinking about how econo­ coming more and more air-mmded. mies can be made. If there are any They watch the progress of the planes defects in the working of the Corpo­ and compare and contrast them and rations, they can be mended. find out what is the best for them. Reference was made to the question Therefore, if mistakes are made—and why these two Corporations should mistakes will be made—they are al­ not be brought under one. There Is ways made in good faith and the one opinion that they should be amal» House has got the right to reprimand gamated. There is another opinion by then for the mistakes but the fact another hon. Member that they should that they are done in good faith must not be amalgamated. I have got an be accepted. Surely, these mistakes open mind on this subject and I can were not done in bad faith. If civil assure the House that nothing will be aviation means a good thing and if it done in haste. We have got only five ultimately turns out to be bad, you years’ experience, and that is not a must be charitable, and the House very big experience. It is not as If is always charitable to the mistakes we can do wonders if there is amalga­ that'ate committed in good faith. mation or bifurcation. Wonders could Motion re. t MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian Air- 1 3 8 * 8 lines Corporation and the Air India International Corporation be done when we become air-minded, to be increasingly popular and we when our administration becomes very shall have nothing to say. efficient and uptodate and when los­ Then it was said why are we pay­ ses are minimised, if not eliminated. ing high salaries to them. These are Another thing that he suggested was hazardous jobs and therefore they about the hostesses, to which answer have got to be paid. It is not an ordi­ has been given. He asked why there nary job. Sometimes great risk is in­ are fashionable hostesses and ladies volved and therefore we are paying with good faces. I am quite sure that them. he has no objection, either to the Then it was said that Rs. 19 lakhs of ladies or the good faces. Ladies with commission was paid. Now this pay­ good faces have been applauded ment of commission is a normal prac­ everywhere in every country from tice in all the airlines of the world. time immemorial. The system of hos­ You cannot be different from the tesses was introduced in the West. I other airlines. We have got to work remember, it was not introduced through the tourist agencies and other because somebody must be there or a things looking after the travellers. If nurse must be there to look after a you say that our line is very popular patient,but it was introduced because and we do not want their help, that an air hostess is a pastime and she is cannot be done. It has got to depend useful. Therefore, she must have all on them in order to be abreast of all these things. What I mean to say is the practices which have come in that she must be clever and tactful. aviation, which the progressive It is not merely die service. There­ nations have. fore, a good face in a hostess is one of the qualifications for their selec­ Then about the Rs. 7 lakhs spent in tion. Therefore there is nothing advertisement, I may say that it is wrong about it. not even one per cent. Other lines pay four to five per cent. The Esti­ He does not seem to like blue saris. mates Committee also felt that if we Some people have got some fascina­ spend up to one per cent it is not too tion for some colours. I do not know, much of advertisement. Therefore, a but those who selected the blue sari little less than Rs. 7 lakhs on a total must have a fassination for blue. But bill of about Rs. 6 to Rs. 7 crores is I can assure him that I was not res­ not large. Advertisement is not ponsible for the selection of blue merely to secure a passenger but to saris. Blue is not my very favourite make people air-worthy by telling colour. But even then, what I am them everything about aviation so saying is that these colours are chosen that more and more people come to for efficiency, for good looks and so on think about aviation. Therefore these and so forth. Therefore I need not be advertisements have got to be conti­ sorry about it. nued. We have some stewards also. He Then, my hon. friend, Shri Alva, suggested that Stewards are not bad. made a reference to some of the very 1 cannot be unjust to my own sex. brave deeds of our pilots etc. May I (Interruption) You need not inter­ repeat that? I whole-heartedly sup­ rupt me. They may be good, but when port him in this. Our pilots are really these stewards were appointed I an object of pride. Wherever we go, found nobody ever called a steward I have seen in Geneva and in Hong for service. I used to feel very hurt Kong landings done by our pilots in about it as to what is wrong. The weather conditions where except the poor fellow was so efficient. The sys­ brave no pilot would ever really at­ tem of hostesses has come into being. tempt, they say the Indian pilot is one It has become popular and it is going to be envied. We are not behind any- 1 3 8 1 9 Motlow te. 7 MAY 1958 Reports of the Indian Air- 1 3 3 3 0 lines Corporation and the A ir India International Corporation [Shri S. K, Patil) body in applauding their services. If money in aviation. By that time, they are not paid more adequately, it large percentage of our travellers will is because we love them so much. have acquired airmindedness that is Appreciation should be accepted part required. ill kind and part in cash. We are not . in a position to pay them more, but I I have not much to say. The hon. may t>ay that there is no class of pub­ Member has to make a speech in lic servants that deserves a better reply. I can end on a note of opti­ treatment than the pilots and the mism. I have not said this merely in servants of our aviation services. order to take advantage of the posi­ tion. In the past we may have failed Coming now to the routes pattern, in many places. So far as aviation i» Jodhpur and other places were men­ concerned, barring a few mistakes tioned. I agree with my hon. friend. that we have done, which could have It is not my opinion. I can feel per­ been avoided,—we shall avoid them in sonally because I am an aviation man the future—we have made a success all my lifetime not because I acciden­ of aviation in this country. It shall tally happen to be the Minister of stand to the credit of this Government Aviation. Aviation cannot succeed of ours and our democracy—this is by unless you lake the ‘plane first even far the most important and magnifl- if there is no passenger. After wards, cient nationalised concern that they people come to know that there are have handled—a concern which has to advantages in going by air. We can­ be answerable lo “millions of people not go in the slow-moving trains. who are the passengers ultimately— Sometimes one can go, but there are when we come to realise that their some occasions when fast-moving verdict will be, we have done well. planes are also necessary. Therefore feeder lines have come into being. It Shri Rajendra Singh: Mr. Deputy- must be such a network of feeder Speaker, I think the hon. Minister lines that you can go from anywhere deserves congratulations for defending to everywhere in the country with as the indefensible. He has at least been much speed as is capable of. I shall unjust to me by misquoting what I get the question of Jodhpur examined. said. I have never said that this avia­ Li Jodhpur line we are having a loss tion should be run entirely or abso­ of Rs. 4 lakhs. It is not an ordinary lutely on a commercial basis. I simply loss. suggested that strict economy should About Andhra, how much have I be applied. The hon. Minister says suffered because there is no aeroplane that for ten years to come, we will there and everytime I have to motor have to prepare ourselves for losses 60 or 200 miles about ten times in two and then and then only can aviation or three months. If a large State, like improve and develop in this country. Andhra, with 36 million people, who If aviation can develop, if every man are flug everywhere, is not linked could have an aircraft in India, if with feeder line, surely our aviation every village can have an aerodrome, cannot be said to have made sufficient I think nobody could be happier than progress. All these things will be me. But, one must also understand examined in their proper perspective that no communication however im­ The House must be co-operative, that portant can develop entirely in ignor­ ia, they must not at once say, because ance of the economic situation pre­ we are making losses, we must not vailing in the country. If the econo­ do that. If we are prepared to suffer mic situation of our country permits losses for ten years in order to pro­ of enormous development of aviation, pagate aviation, I shall guarantee, at it can. But, if the economy does not the tad of it, we shall start making permit it, no matter whosoever is the M otion r e . 7 MAY 1968 Reports of the Indian Air- 13822 lines Corporation and the A ir India International Corporation Minister here in this House, it cannot win- w r f m Trrm tf develop. % 3RfVt take an enormous amount of risk. I never said anything about that. I said «r$r1 1 x s Tmflv vmwf simply about the Passenger Relations j|» qr=ff % s p r f ^ i v ^ officers who were recruited when, of course, there was no need for them. *PTF% Tf ^ fo ^T#T?TT JTrf^T % *TTS Even if there was some need, they *rff ^ were given a certain preferential ?ft ^ t t t ^ r r i fo treatment regardless of principles and regardless of rules, which has brought ir m h r e labourers. If aviation is so important and labour has to be satis­ t fr # tft I, fied by giving higher salaries and jjh f w f«F ^ higher amenities, it is also true that ^ Jf^TT ^T^TT jj fo ^ labour must feel satisfied that the treatment that is meted out to them SRTft *T 5RR STcfTcT ffaT ft I is not different and discriminatory, and that it is fair and honourable. $ 3 5 f^RT t o ’trnfhr 1»t With these words, I conclude. ^ *rf «ft ^ ^ ^ w *T5 TTf ^ f w «rt •GOVERNMENT ADVERTISEMENTS ^ 1 r- ( W W ) : f w f T?: ■9TT| ?R5 W5T 5T f t 'TT^TT ^ tn h r, q v ft, farwpff % W lklfW I SHFT i m r ^ 5 ? %■ if 5Rnr

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<=rtvfiR 3Rcrr v w z j . ^r*r^t WT&TT g fa ?*r 5TTT * ^rtf5T5T «FW f it? >ft mp crn^r w j *m m f % fwsrm >fr, wr ^ ^ I V XPT ^ft fw 3TRT f , 3TO? W ^T ^ft f^rjFcT ^r qM?r %ut ^rr^rr ^(1%^ 1 5»T * P ^ T $ rrm ^ >fr | % smrr «nfV ^ ^ snrr p. ?r t ? q- 3ft srrr ’srr^aT g ftp frrcptt if?r rr^fiTT^ % jr r r fr q ^ r t ?t ^ q ^ rv ^ n f 1 gqpR- ^ JffcT ^ it % ^ 1 »rfr mrw ^ srnrr ftr anr H m r m f \ m v ^ r f ^ w»n I 3&27 Government Advertisements 7 MAY 1958 Government Advertisements 138*8

vr^fr to build up democracy in this coun­ ^ q w r «ft try, the small Press must be kept wnO*fdi tiK) ^ ^ *ttt alive; if it is not kept alive, demo­ fern t «rnr rrap ^ rs rt wrrf hitt- cracy will be in danger in this coun­ try at this juncture. Keeping this in arcTr *fk ’T^rm ?rff ftnT t^ t t 1 w \: mind, the Press Commission had fa?r trf fWrfrrT srrft stated in their Report, ‘It is unfortu­ 1 ?*r ^57 jt ?r»r*nT >,00 nate that the district and mofussil Press has not received adequate $=t, ^ % «pt ww? attention of Government as media TT, ift JJ’fifaPT # W3RT ^PTT t, ’Ttart of advertisements’. Therefore, this must be tackled from two angles. We % V"a <, cfPTT S', yjidl 3THT must help them to survive because r* ™p far* % ^ -W Hrrni ^t they are run by way of a mission. *nr% h w ) f s u r m f ^ anrr 1 The distribution must be not only equitable, but we must, to some IT f^ r^ T ^T^TT ^ T T ijf f=F ^ ?PP extent, help them and give them pro- fRTT ir m h r *ff ^ t , tion. While giving protection, no considerations of political affiliation J$ff f^WPT t % '3W f^T fTRTC should be brought in, because in this *rm £, ^ ^rfsrr spiMsfH- 1 , s ftr w country the Opposition is not well organised, it is not financed. So even f*T% pTT St? «P*7f *PTT jj, Mapff the Opposition Press, particularly f g[ trjn »rpr*r ^trrr £ fa: s im # tft the language Press, must be given qfTfNfwf % srRTT # | £JT 3^^ adequate share of advertisements. On this point, I would like to get «T*ft Vt JPHPT ^TT^T # ? ?ft7 ^PT some definite information from him. ?p^rw wrr% 5 fa; # jfTT sftr m^T % w v urnr * i. m fo h w ’ts rt W(j now find th at on every big or small occasion when a new factory is i t i f r qr w s , srk j t t opened or a dam is built or founda- V T^**^ T7 fa? t. IHV tion-stonf laid, big supplements are being published. I have not come TPtwTfr 3tt *i% 1 across a single supplement of this Shri Khadilkar (Ahmednagar): nature which is being financed by When the Demands for Grants of this Government in the language Press, at Ministry were discussed, 1 had made different levels. So I would like to some points. As my hon. friend, know from the Minister what is the Shri Bhakt Darshan, has brought this policy in this regard. issue before the House by means of a half-an-hour discussion. I would like Now I come to the third point. The to pose a few questions, which 1 had Press Commission have taken note of posed during the debate on the last one factor, that the giow-more-food occasion and which the hon. Minister advertisements are made in the could, unfortunately, not answer on English Press. Now we have, for that day. I hope he would be instance, the Janata policy. We want pleased to answer them today. to mop up savings. But so far as At the outset, I must say that he advertisements are concerned, if you has done a very good work, which is take the total, the major portion is appreciated, regarding Indian music. given to the big English Press and I expect of him to do the same so far only small crumbs are thrown to the as the language Press is concerned. smaller fries in the Press industry. So far as the pattern of ownership of newspapers is concerned, it is getting Again regarding advertisements, monopolised. If at all we are going when recruitment of technical staff 33&19 Government Advertisements 7 MAY 1968 Government Advertisements 13830 loc ally or otherwise is to be made—I *nfiTT vt an ^ 7 have come across this complaint when I visited several steel plants and other st 'ft fa*r srfim % industrial establishments—their com­ ytf w t k *vr< *rc- plaint was that advertisements never appeared in the local papers where w t winrt ^m^rrr w t people could easily see and apply. * r ^ r r ( t fsrsrm %?tt jp? wk There are many institutes there, but people do not know about vacancies. There are so many new concerns where recruitment takes place; but !reT *r^,i i % ^ w , srnr the local people do not know any­ ’snrr ft f a w rift »rm ^K q-^ft thing about it before hand, because the advertisements are given in some ^t f^rr ferrpr saw hi* English paper outside. I would, ^TFTr ft ^ n f a *TOT*T*- therefore, like to have some infor­ mation on this also. T5f an% fa*ft 5T fa*ft TTrccfta TOT % W^fTT T* Tt tft w w rrr?r ft ? «ft wrnw faf (fip'RTsrrc) : I *TT?fa vrrq-mf w *r ffcsfr «pt * vn w w r : ?rr=r % frnr Trrarsfr * t q*T?rf r ? Tf *T5TFT oj I *nffFT f a j r m A ’rptjt ^ - ^ 7 fa^R- fwzr* srsrre Wt WITTT* : W*TT * r r * T r fr fm - y m va - v.s; *r f^ rr ? W f f a f f ^ t ^ K t TTWfT % f^^P T ^ p r fsr^t (r^ff ^ vqrsfr 1 TnTrfto jpT^TT STpT?H *nrr-*r< q^ft faq m i t r fasrmt TT ’TTT ft t t T P r q fT ^ w t srfrTspr ft ' w jHctt cr far*fr vfr « n newspapers in different languages. fa s rm %t q?W’n f r m i f f ft ? The second is whether the Govern­ m ent is aw are of or awake to the position that the future of the Indian irf? JTjfr a! w^jft qrrnm newspapers lies with the language Press and not so ;much with'.the 7*1 *kt fa* 3rr# f t s r m f English Press becaujPpn reaching the # vri w fafr1 *rr* jfi mass of the people, nt^is the languafs 13831 Government Advertisements 7 MAY 1988 Government Advertiatmtnts 15S3)

[Sh ri C. K. Bhattacharyya] Press which will come to help and not Shri Ranga: It is yet to be ful­ the English Press so much. filled. The Minister of Information and Dr. Keskar: The second point Is Broadcasting (Dr. K esk ar): Mr. regarding the Government advertise­ Deputy-Speaker, it would not be ments not being given on political possible for me to reply to the considerations and being given on large number ol questions which certain standards laid down for giving have been posed. For instance, advertisements. I know what I say Shri Braj Raj Singh had given might be a little contradictory. My me a list of questions at least some friend, Shri Bhakt Darshan, for ins­ of which require that I should find tance in his speech, has made two out statistics and data. It would statements which were at the sam* take me sometime and it is not there­ time contradictory. A number of fore possible for me to go more into papers have played a great role in the details of these questions here. the history of our liberation. The language papers have fought for our

Shri Ranga (Tenali): "Whatever you Shri C. K. Bhattacharyya: Sine* have at your disposal may be given. these are past history nobody will charge you that you are being guided Dr. Keskar; First of all, instead of by political considerations. trying to answer specific and small questions, it might be useful if I put Dr. Keskar: I am afraid I cannot before the House certain general agree. considerations. Firstly, about the Press Commission. Mention has been My experience is that I will certain­ made many times about the policy ly be assailed, and assailed very recommended by the Press Commis­ Strongly. I have had to bear cri­ sion. I might at once say in brief ticism on this basis. I know that that though we generally accept the even the smallest act of Government approach of the Press Commission is wrongly interpreted even when it regarding this question, it is not possi­ lias been done with the best of in­ ble for me to say that Government tentions. agrees to every comma and full-stop as given by the Press Commission. What I would like t,o put before Th«re are two fundamental points the House is that we have very care­ regarding which we agree. One was fully evolved a policy on the basis mentioned by Shri Bhattacharyya. We of which we should give advertise- .should certainly try to see that the ments. We have laid down a broad language Press is encouraged more outline of our approach. We distri­ and more ano^ the English Press bute advertisements to periodicals and should not get that muoh patronage newspapers g$ieraily oq the follow­ which it has teen getting up till how. ing basis: (i) to secure the widest (2$ 22f Government Advertisement* 7 MAY 195ft Government Advertisements 13834

pos sible coverage within the funds At the same time, I would like to available; and (ii) to reach the make it clear that we feel that a masses in all walks of life particu­ paper must observe certain journalis­ larly where the advertisements carry tic standards. It should not descend a message to the people. In selecting below a particular level if we have newspapers and periodicals we to consider it for giving advertise­ generally keep the following consi­ ments. I have made it clear on the derations in mind: (i) effective cir­ floor of this House many times that culation, (ii) regularity in publica. papers which are of the yellow type, tion, (iii) the class of readership of which do not observe even ordinary that paper, (iv) adherence to accept­ decencies will not be given advertise­ ed standards of journalistic ethics, and ments. They are quite at liberty to (v) certain other factors such as criticise us and we are prepared to production standards, the language take that criticism, Therefore, in in "Which it is being published, w hat view of this we do not give advertise­ public it is approaching etc. We try ments to certain papers, but only on to take care to see that politics is that account and no other. not brought into this. Two important points were stressed I know that in spite of all this and here (Interruption). I would not like the objective way in which we try to in this little time at my disposal to give advertisements, criticism is stray into minor things and leave out made on the floor of this House jand the major things. outside that Government gives ad­ vertisements on political considera­ Shri D. R. Chavan (Karad): Have tions. This is not true, and I make you got a list to those yellow-type bold to Say it again that our policy papers? has mainly kept in view the objective principles of giving advertisements Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That would to all papers which observe a certain be a controversial matter. standard and certain rules. I might mention, as an example, that all * Dr. Keskar: I am not going to important papers belonging to the answer about a particular paper; I Opposition Parties are getting Gov­ am standing here to explain the ernment advertisements. I might general principle. Let us take the read out a few names: N ew Age, quantum of Government advertise­ Janyug , V ishalandhra, Janyugam. ments. We have got two types of Navjeevan, Nawan Zamana, Nay a advertisements — there are classified Path, Janshakthi, Lok Sevak. Krushak advertisements and there are display —Cuttack, Kerala Jantha —T rivan­ advertisements. As far as display ad­ drum, Viflrit—Calcutta, Samakalin — vertisements are concerned, the facts Calcutta, Yugdharm a —Nagpur, Tarun speak for themselves. I will now Bharat —Nagpur, Pratap— Ju llu n - read out Uw; figures for the last three- dur, Sanmarg —Banaras, Sanmarg — four years since wc have tried to lay Calcutta, Gantantra —Cuttack, Pra- down a specific and determined policy bhatam —Quilon, Chandrika —Kozhi­ to which I made a mention sometime kode, Akali Patrika —Jullundur. back. These papers belong to opposition 18 hrs. parties, and we give advertisements to them. We give advertisements to Now', in 1955-56, we had given to others also—this is just by way of the English papers about Rs. 7 lakhs illustration. I am not claiming that for advertisement. In 1956-57, it we give this much or that much, but came down to Rs. 5 lakhs. Let us we try to give to all papers and we come to Indian language papers. We to not in that process keep in view had given to Indian language papers v$fot is the opinion of that paper. in 1954-55 Rs. 9,73,000 and w e were r3$3S Government Advertitements 7 MAY 1958 Government Advertisement* 1583 fe

[Dr. K eskar] having 1,05,000 column inches of papers. I am one of those who space. In 1955-56, it went up to would like to switch on to the lan­ 1 .10.000 column inches of space guage papers at the earliest possible and from Rs. 3,73,000 we came time and give very little to the to Rs. 4,71,000 in 1955-56. In 1956- English papers. But it is not possible 57, we come to 2,17,000 column inches ior the Government to carry out such of space and Rs. 6,92,000. In 1957-58, a sudden and brusque policy. Our we are at 2 ,22,000 column inches of policy—and I have to confirm it-—is space and Rs. 7,95,000 to the Indian on right lines and that is slowly and language papers. Our policy has been gradually, every year, to increase the that it is not possible practically. quantum and in a considerable measure money that we give to the Shri Slnhasan Singh (Gorakhpur): language press. In fact, we are the What about English papers? target of criticism from the English Dr. Keskar; For English papers, in press because of the great quantum 1957-58, they got Rs. 6^50,000. The of advertisements that we give to the Indian language papers got Rs. 7,95,000. language press. About space, English papers got 70.000 column inches and the Indian I may also inform the hon. Mem­ language papers got 2 ,22,000 column bers that we take great care to see inches. that the advertisements are given to all language papers, in all languages. Sir, our policy has been to increase No language is left out and no par­ gradually and steadily the quantum ticular language is given any special of advertisement and money given preference. We try to give to all of to the language papers. This is a them. But our difficulty is this. If policy which we desire to carry out. you take a particular unit, the money It is not simply because Government will not come to much. It is simply w ants it. Everyone of us w ants it. because of the fact that the number It is obvious that like Shri Bhatta­ of papers in the Indian languages is charyya we all want it, namely, in thousands. There are more than greater aid to the language papers. 400 dailies 111 Indian languages and But, at the same time, may I put it if you take the weeklies, the number to the House that it is not practical will run into thousands. If this to. suggest that we stop advertise­ money is divided by the number of ments to English papers or reduce it papers, the amount per paper will be to such a small percentage in respect very small, and that is something of the English papers and switch them which I cannot get over. Unfortu­ on to the Indian language papers? It nately, it is not possible for the is not possible for two reasons. First­ Central Government to give a large ly, even today, in most of the Gov­ Sum of money for advertisement ernments,—I do not say all,—and in keeping in view th at there are the Central Government, the busi­ numerous papers throughout the ness is carried on in English, and in country, because for any particular a number of States and at the State, a large quantum of advertise­ Centre it will be carried on in English ment will come from the State itself, for sometime to come however much and it cannot be contributed by the we would like to switch over. I do Central Government. not want to get into that controversy. The hon. Members are too well aware Now I come to the crucial question of it. As long as the State language of the classified advertisements, which remains English and a lot of admi­ is very important in understanding nistrative work is done in English, it why if you total all the adver^se- is inevitable that Government will .rrients it appears that the Erifflish have to give a considerable portion press has got preference over tbe of its advertisements to the English language press. J3&37 &>®

I would first of all inform the hon. I will now give the figures in Members that classified advertise­ respect of some. For the U.P.S.C. we ments can be divided into three heads have taken a total space of about —general classified advertisements 54,000 column inches—I am talking issued by the various Ministries, of 1957-58 of which only classified advertisements issued by the 13,240 column inches w ent to U.P.S.C. and special unit of classified non-English papers; the bulk* of it advertisements by the Rehabilitation went to English papers. All rehabi­ Ministry. Now the U.P.S.C., which litation advertisements go to the really has got nearly half or about English press. I am now coming to 45 per cent, approximately of the the other part, which is about half. advertisement quantum of classified We are trying to adopt a policy of advertisements, is a statutory body having more and more advertisements over which we have no control. It In non-English papers and we are does not mean that we have no liaison pressing other Ministries, who have with them. Therefore, it will be classified advertisements, to do this. difficult for me to give an answer on The space that was given for English their behalf, as they according to papers was 35,698 column inches and their constitution follow a particular to the non-English papers 36,458 policy. We have had discussions column inches. during the last two or three years about the desirability of giving ad­ So, my point is that wherever we vertisements to language papers, have been able to impress our policy because people who want employment on the units concerned, we have do not necessarily or ought not ne­ seen to it that the language press cessarily, read English papers. We gets more and more But, as far as have now succeeded in persuading the Commission is concerned, I am them to advertise as an experiment a.s not in a position to influence them. I a sample, in five Indian languages. am afraid, I would not be able either to answer on their behalf or do any­ Shri Braj Raj Singh: Not all? thing except to convey the feelings of Dr. Keskar: But, I am afraid, even this House to the body concerned. now the largest part of their adver­ tisements go to English papers. Some­ Shri Braj Raj Singh: What is the times I have not agreed to the parti­ difficulty in impressing it upon the cular papers to which they wanted to Rehabilitation Ministry? give the advertisements. but I am not authorized to interfere with their Dr. Kehkar: 1 will come to '-hat. work very much I would, therefore, They feel that in order to get the submit to the hon Members that this quickest results for the particular should be taken up really when dis­ bales or offers they must put in par­ cussion on the Commission comes. ticular areas, they want them to be We are trying our best, as far as we advertised in particular language. can. But the constitutional authority given to the Commission is such that I said this at the very outset, I am rather helpless in the matter, because otherwise it may be said that excepting by way of persuasion. And we are trying to juggle with figures. I do try to persuade them so that So, if all the total figures are taken, more and more quantum of advertise­ ments go to the language press. hon. Members will find that the English press is getting preference. Then there are the advertisements Even if you total all the figures, the relating to the Rehabilitation Depart­ English press gets slightly more. But, ment They give certain types of as the hon. Members '"ill find from advertisements regarding the proper­ the break-up of the figures, as far as ties for sale and things like that for this Ministry is concerned, whenever rehabilitation purposes. we have been able to follow that 13839 Crovemnitnt Advtrtisements 7 MAY 1958 Government A4verti$*intnts fjfa p

[Dr. K eskar] policy, we have given, and we are tisements come up, we stagger the going to give encouragement syste­ advertisement, i.e. we g iv e to on e matic encouragement to the language paper which has the largest circulation press. and then next time we give it to th e next largely circulated paper so that one paper alone does not g e t th e I must also inform hon. Members monopoly. These are minor difficul­ so that they should be under no mis­ ties which come up and which hdtf. apprehension—that there an* certain Members might be keeping in v ie w ' ii units which are not under this Minis­ we are to solve this question of c la s si­ try. For example, the Railways do fied advertisements. their own advertising. There is a cer­ tain liaison as far as general policy is concerned, but they are perfectly free Then there are very specialised typia and they do their own advertising. ot advertisements, for example, adver­ All the statutory corporations are en­ tisements of the Atomic Energy Com ­ tirely independent and do not come mission. They feel that only certain within the purview of what I have very qualified people will apply and therefore it should be given only,to mentioned. So, whatever I am talking certain type of papers and it netd here is on behalf of the other Minis­ tries, excepting the Railways and the not go to all papers. Such advertise­ statutory corporations of which I ments have to be kept for certain made a mention just now. types of papers. But leaving . these details apart, our policy is exactly what hon. Members want. At the I might say that we are taking same time, we are not trying to do steps to guard against the danger to things in a jump. We are trying to which a reference was made by Shri go from one stage to another, steadi­ Bhakt Darshan that certain big ly progressing and giving mere and papers should not get a monopoly of more advertisements to the language advertisements. There are some diffi­ papers. culties about classified advertisements which should be faced. For example, Shri Ranga: Could not an effort be if there is an advertisement for a made to extend the same policy to all particular employment and the money the State undertakings? to be spent is possibly for only one in­ sertion, the Ministry or the unit wants that it should be given, or it can only Dr. Keskar: If the House puts its be given, to any one paper. They weight on my side, that will become have not got the money to give the ad­ possible. But at present I am rather vertisement to many papers. In that helpless in the matter. We have tried circumstance, the tendency will always and we have not succeeded. be that we should advertise in the paper with the largest circulation. About the question of a body like There it is very difficult to answer the U.P.S.C., it is not possible for me the argument that it should go to a to say anything more. They have paper which has larger circulation their reasons and I do not want to because it will reach the largest say anything about it. But the House number of people. But even there in is now fully aware of the position order to obviate the tendency of and if they support us, I think we monopoly for a certain paper with the can progress further regarding other largest circulation to get all the stray units. advertisement, which when put toge­ ther become very big, we have tried to lay down—in fact, we have laid Shri Ranga: In which way can w e down—a policy that when such adver­ support? ^ jj^T Qoc*mme*t Advertisements 7 MAY 1958 Government Advertisements 138 2

• f u n w u k : 1 ft «rr but certain papers have an arrange­ ment with the advertising agencies f t , -«*WTrTfl%»T * BBT and there we prefer to do it through f J r o m *r ^ the agency. ^ n r m % 1 w vrt # w rita »NV Secondly, as far as the agencies are f t 1 f * ^ | 1 concerned, we are trying to see that Indian agencies get preference and that they are built up. I am quite Dr. Keskar: I would say only one aware of the hold and the influence of word. I think probably hon. Mem­ certain foreign established agencies, bers are not aware that advertising but they have built themselves up agencies are not paid anything extra and it is not easy to do away with by us. Advertising agencies are like them at one stroke. We will see that the agencies, for example, of the the others also come up to their level Indian Airlines Corporation, to which and we are quite aware of the posi­ commission is paid. Whether we give tion. it to the paper direct or we give it to the advertising agency, the Govern­ 18.15 hrs. ment does not spend a pie more. There are arrangements by which the The Lok Sabha then adjourned till agencies work. We do give advertise­ Eleven of the Clock on Thursday, the ments direct to a number of papers, 8 th May, 1958. 138 43 DAILY DIGEST (IFwfawdH)’, 7th May* 1958)

C o lu m n s w ritten answers to qurs. ORAL ANSWERS TO QUES­ TIONS,—comd. TIONS .... 13553—99 Columns Subject S.Q. Subjtct s k No. s . s . R ailw ay 2036. Economy . 13553— 56 2061-A Light 13605-06 *>37. Export of Monkeys 13556— 60 2062. Displaced persona in Purana Quila 13606 2038. Bengal Paper Mills Co. 13560-61 2063. Industrial Development of Saudi 13606 3039. Manufacture of Watches and Clocks 13561— 64 2064. Manganese Ore . . 13606—07 2041. Coda for Discipline in 2065. Indians in Ceylon r 3607 Industry 13564— 66 2066. Hindustan Antibiotics 3043. Export of Iron Ore to (Private) Limited 13608 Japan 13566— 70 2067- Pakistanis* Raid on 2044. Fixation of Minimum Chhamba Village 13608-09 Wage t3 5 7 o -7 i 2068. Purchase of Milk from 2045. Conference on the Law U.S. A 13609 of Seas 13571— 74 2069. Displaced Squatters at 30 4 6 . Pakistan’s letter to U.N. Prime Minister’s Resi­ on Kashmir 13574— 76 dence 13'Soj-io 2047. Industrial Enterprises 2069-A Strike Notice by colliery 13576— 78 workers in Orissa 13610-11 2048. Coke Oven Plant in Durgapore 13579-79 2070. Evaluation Committee . 13611 Migrants from Goa 13580-81 2071. Co-operative Movement 2049. in India 13611-12 2050 Radio-active Waste 13581— 83 2072. Indians in Ceylon 13612 2051. Passport Racketeers 13583— 85 2073. Tea Estates 13613 2052. Firing by Pakistanis 13585— 87 2074. Wage Board for Working 2t»S3. Article in ‘New Age* 13587— 93 Journalists . 13613 SJf.Q. 2075. Violation of cease-fire Line 13613-14 No. 1899. Aid to West Bengal 13614 19- T*ur of Foreign Service U.S.Q. Inspectors to Europe 13593—99 No. WRITTEN ANSWERS TO 3356. Employment Potential . 13614-15 QUESTIONS . 13599—13688 3357- Sericulture . 13615 3358. Export of Engineering Goods . 13615 3359- Slum Clearance in Mysore 13616 2040. Saudi Arabian Trade 3360. Razor Blades 13616-17 Mission . 13599—13600 Rayon Silk Yarn . 13617-18 2042. Model Town in Rewari . 13600 3361- 3362. Evacuee Houses . 13618-19 2054. Powerloom Mills in Punjab 13600-01 3363- Indian Border 13619 2©5S- Wage Board for Planta­ 3364* Violations of India- tion Workers 13601 Goa Territory 13619-20 2056. Employees Provident 3365- Border Incidents 13620 Fund 13601-02 3366. Faridabad Township . 13620-21 2057. Nagas 13602 3367- Pakistan Nationals’ 2038. Raw Film 13603-04 Illegal Entry 13621 2059. Extradition Treaty 13604 3368. Indians in Burma 13621*22 2060. All India Sericulture 3369. Planned Transfer of Training Institute Staff.. . . 13622-23 (Mysore) 13604 3370. Employment Ecchanges 13623-24 2061. Closure of Textile Mill* 3371- Auctioning of Evacuee in Kanpur . 13605 Properties . 13624 <3*4 5 [DAILY DIGEST] 13846 w r i t t e n a n s w e r s TO w r it t e n a n s w e r s TO QUESTIONS—tontd. QUESTIONS—etmtd. £7.5.2. N o. Subjtct C o l u m n s No. Subjtct Co lu m n s 337** Auctioning of Evacuee 3404- Spinning Mills for Dis­ Buildings . 13624-25 placed persons 13644 1373- State Trading Corporation of India (Private) Ltd. 13625-26 3405. Printing Errors in Offi­ cial Publications 3374* State Trading Corpora­ 13644-45 tion of India (Private) 3 4 0 6 . Indo-Burma Border 13645 Ltd. . 13626 3407. Adivasi Programmes on 3375- Staff fa P.I.B. . 1362-7-28 A.I.R. Indore 13645-46 337«- Addition*! Taxation 13628 3408. Co-operative Society in Lahore . 3377* N.E.S. Block* in West 13646-47 Bengal 13629 3409 . Training Centres in Delhi 13647-48 337*- Pruning of Second Five Year Plan . 13629-30 3410. Atomic Fuels 13648 3379- Nuclear Energy . 13630 34i i . Match Factory at Jogin- demagar (Hirncahal 3380 . Divisions, Sub-divisions Pradesh) and Districts of States . 13630-31 13648-49 3412 Low Income Group 3381. Conferences 13631 Housing Scheme in 3382 . Stenographer found in Delhi 13649-50 basement of Central Secretariat . 13632 34J 3 Low Income Group Housing Scheme 13650 3383- Dearness Allowance to Silk Yarn . Colliery Workers 13632 3414 • 13650-51 . Bursting of Balloon in “India's Minorities” 13633 3415 3384. Tripura 13651-52 33*5- Displaced Persons in 3416. Khadi and Village Indus­ Salanpur 13633 tries in Punjab 13652-53 Gnundan Movement in 3386. 3417. Handicrafts in Punjab Orissa 13633-34 and Himachal Pradesh . 13653-54 3387. Show-rooms and Sales- 3418 . Development works in depots for Coir Products i 3634 Border Areas *3653— 55 13634-35 3388. Coir Industry 3419 • Refugee Schools . 13655 3389- Coir Board 13635 3420. Squatters Colonies in Punjab 3390- Eviction of Displaced 13655 Persons 13635-36 3421. Industrial Co-operative Societies in Punjab 3391* National Development >3655-56 Council 13636 3422. Silk Factories 13656-57 3392- Loons to Punjab 13636-37 3423. Khadi and Village Indus­ tries Board, Punjab 3393- Export of Wool . 13637 13657 3424. Indians Deported from 3394- Industrial Training in Punjab and Himachal Burma 13657 Pradesh 13637-38 3425. Second Five Year Plan for Punjab 3395- Government of India 13657-58 Press, Simla 13638-39 3426. New Central Market in Delhi . 13658 3396. Bettiah Camp 1363 j-4 0 3427. Retrenchment of Wor­ 3397- Evacuee Property. 13640-41 kers of Maganesite 3398. A I. R. at Cuttack 13641 Syndicate Ltd. . 13659 3399- Registered Companies . 13641-42 3428 . C.P.W.D. . 1 3 6 5 ? 34<»- Tourists who visited 3429 . Survey of Labour Condi­ Foreign Countries 13642 tions in Iron Ore Mines 1365 >-60 3430. Newsprint . 13660-61 3401. Bihar Cotton Mills, Phulwarisharif 13643 3431 Small Scale Industries in Punjab . 13661 3402. Land in Delhi 13643 3432. Commentator on Par­ 3 403. Electrification of Railways 13643-44 liamentary Affairs 13661-62 13* 47 [DAILY DIGEST] X384B

WRITTEN ANSWERS TO TO contd. QUESTIONS— Q U E S T I O N S— am td. U.S.Q. Subject C o l u m n s U.S. Q . Subjtct COUJMNS No. No. 3433. ‘Ajkal* 13662 3469. M anufacture o f W ooden 3434. Import of Tractors 13662-63 T o ys 13680-81 343S- Effects of Radiation 13663-64 3470. Land A cquisition in 3436. Cement Prices 13664 Delhi 1368X-82 3437. Inmigration Bill in 3471. Land Acquisition in Malaya 13664-65 D elhi 13682 3438 . Land Reforms 13665-66 3472. All India Handloom 3439- Rayon Pulp Factory in Bo»Td 13682 K erala 13666 3473. Madras Handkerchiefs . 13683 3440. Central Government 3474. Export of Wooden Offices 13666-67 Sleepers 13683 3441. Indian Statistical Ins- 3475. Em ploym ent Exchanges 13*583-84 titu te 13667 3476. Plantago Ovata Husk 3442. Ambar Charkhas 13667-68 (Sat Isabgo]) 13684-85 3443- U .N . M ap . 13668 3476-A. Frangmentation of 3444- Pakistanis employed in Land Holdings . 13685-86 India . . 1366S-69 3476-B. Railway Quarters 13686 3446. Indians repatriated frcm 3476-C. Rent of Hired Accom- British Colonies . 13669 modation for Go- vernment Officers 13686-87 3447. Minimum Wages Act . 13669-70 3448. Fertilizer Factories 13670 3477. Commercial Services of 3449 • Hindustan Antibiotics Radio Ceylon 13687-88 (Private) Ltd. 13670-71 3478. Ch arter o f Demands . 13688 3450. Abduction of Indians by Pakistani Forces 13671-72 PAPERS LAID ON THE T A B L E .... 13688— 90 3451. Minor Irrigation Works in Pondicherry . 13672 The following papers were laid 3452. Import of Fruits 13672 on the Table :— 3453- D ocum entary Film on (1) A copy of the statement Bhakra Dam Project 13672 correcting the reply given on the nth February, Shifting of Offices to 3454- 1958 to Unstarred Ques- N agpur 13673 tion N o. 64 by Shri 3455. Lajpat Rai Market 13673 Sbobha Ram regarding 3456. Export of Iron Ore exploitation of Uranium 13673-74 O res. 3457- External Publicity 13674 (2) A copy of each of the 3458. Indian Missions Abroad 13674-75 following Notifications, 3459- Import of Plywood 13675 under sub-section (3) of 3460. Vivdh Bharat i Program- scction 48 of the Coffee Act, 1942 making certain mes .... 13675-76 further amendments to 3461. Decumentary Filins 13676-77 the Coffee Rules, 1955:— 3462. Export of Sh(.cs and (0 G.S.R. No. 277, dated Leather Goods . 13677 the 26th April, 1958. 3463. Trade with Spain 13678 (it) G.S.R. No. 278, dated 34«4- Exports of Coffee 13678-79 the 26th A pril, 1958. 3465- Export of Wool and (3) A copy of the Half-Yearly Administrative Report Woollen Goods 13679 on the working of the 3466. Export of Sewing Central Silk Board for M achines 13679 the period from 1st April to 30th September, 3467. Village Housing Pro- 1957- jects in Punjab . 13680 (4) A copy of the Summary 3468. Central Training Ins- of Proceedings of the titutes of Instructors 13680 First Sesstor nt' the 13* 4$ [DAILY DIGEST] 138 50

C o l u m n s C o l u m n s PAPERS LAID ON THE LEAVE OF ABSENCE—tontd. TABLE— contd. (5) Shri T. T. 20th February to Industrial Committee Krishnamachari. 19th April 1958 on M inn other than (Fourth Session). Cool Mines held at New Delhi on the 17th and (6) ShriP.C. Bose. 28th February to 18th April, 1958. 16th A pril, 1958 (Fourth Session). (5) A copy of Notification No. G.S.R. 279, dated (7 ) Shri Rajaram 7th March to 4th the 26th April, 1958, Balkrishna Raut. May, 1958 (Fourth under sub-section (3) Session). of Section 641 of the (8) Chow dhry 24th A p ril to 9th Companies Act, 1956, Braham Perkash. May, 1958 (Fourth making certain altera- Session). tions in Schedule V of (9) Shri Pendakanti 12th March to 26th the Companies Act, Vcnkatasubbaiah. April, 1958 (Fourth 19 5 6 - Session). (6) A copy of tbe Statement (10) Shri R. Kanaka- 28th March to 9th correcting the reply given sabai. M ay, 1958 (Fourth on the 25th April, 1958 Session). to a supplementary by STATEMENT BY MINIS- Shri H. C. Dasappa on T E R .... 13697— 13700 Starred Question No. 1839 regarding Middle The Deputy Minister of Defe- Income Group Housing nce (Sardar M ajithia) made a Schemes statement correcting the reply given on the 18th April, REPORT OF THE COMMIT- 1958 to the supplementaries TEE ON PRIVATE MEM- by Shri Bhakt Darshan, Shri BERS’ BILLS AND RESO- Hem Barua and Shrimati LUTIONS PRESENTED . 13690 Renu Chakravartty on Starred Twenty-Second Report was uestion No. 1738 regarding Himalayan Expedition presented. S MOTION FOR REFERENCE CALLING ATTENTION TO TO JOINT COMMITTEE MATTER OF URGENT A D O P T E D .... 13700— 50 PUBLIC IMPORTANCE i 3690- 94 Further discuAion on the mo- Shri Purushottamdas R. Patel tion to refer the Trade and called the attention of the Merchandise Marks Bill, Minister of Commerce and 1958 concluded. The mo- Industry to the accumulation tion was adopted. of Kalyan variety of cotton BILL PASSED . 13756—-7 with small traders. The Deputy Minister of Finance The Minister of Commerce (Shri B. R. Bhagat) moved (Shri Kanungo) laid on the that the Indian Stamp Table a statement in regard (Amendment) Bill, 1958 be thereto. taken intd consideration. LEAVE OF ABSENCE • . • 13694—97 The motion was adopted. After clause-by-clause con- The following members were sideration the Bill was passed. granted leave of absence from the sittings of the House for MOTION RE: REPORTS OF the periods mentioned against THE INDIAN AIRLINES e a c h :— CORPORATION AND THE (1) ShriV. Eacharan 3rd March to 30th AIR INDIA INTERNA- April, 1958 (Fourth TIONAL CORPORATION 13773— 13821 Session). (2) Shri Balasaheb 17th March to 2nd Shri Rajendra Singh moved Salunke April, 1958 (Fourth that the Annual Reports of Session). the Indian Airlines Cor- poration and the Air India (3) Shri U. Mu- 9th April to 9th May, International Corporation tnuramalingB 1958 (Fourth for the year 1956-57, laid Thevar. Session). on the T able o f the House on (4) Shri Chandikesh- 10th February to the 15th November, 1957 be war Sharan Singh 5 th April, 1958 taken into consideration. Ju D eo. (Fourth Session). The report was considered. 138 51 [DAILY DIGEST]

Co l u m n s Gout mms HALF-AN-HOUR dm cus- h a l f -a n -h o u r d is c u s ­ SlON—centd. s io n ...... 13821—142 The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Dr, B.V. Kesfcar) replied to tne debate. AGENDA FOR THURSDAY, Shri Bhakt Darshan railed a 8 TH MAY, 1958- h*if-*n-hour discussion on Discussion on Matter of Urgent points arising out of the Public Importance regard­ answer given on the 22nd ing food poisoning in the April, 1938 to Unstarred Kerala State and discussion Question No. 2381 regard­ on the motion re: Annual ing Government advertise­ Reports of Employees State ments Insurance Corporation