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Work of the Police and Crime Commissioners in Wales House of Commons Welsh Affairs Committee Work of the Police and Crime Commissioners in Wales Oral and written evidence 11 July 2013 Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed 10 July 2012 HC 532-i Published on 3 March 2014 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £6.00 The Welsh Affairs Committee The Welsh Affairs Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Office of the Secretary of State for Wales (including relations with the National Assembly for Wales). Current membership David T.C. Davies MP (Conservative, Monmouth) (Chair) Guto Bebb MP (Conservative, Aberconwy) Geraint Davies MP (Labour, Swansea West) Glyn Davies MP (Conservative, Montgomeryshire) Stephen Doughty MP (Labour, Cardiff South and Penarth) Nia Griffith MP (Labour, Llanelli) Simon Hart MP (Conservative, Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) Mrs Siân C. James MP (Labour, Swansea East) Karen Lumley MP (Conservative, Redditch) Jessica Morden MP (Labour, Newport East) Hywel Williams (Plaid Cymru, Arfon) Mr Mark Williams MP (Liberal Democrat, Ceredigion) The following Members were also members of the Committee during this Parliament Stuart Andrews MP (Conservative, Pudsey) Alun Cairns MP (Conservative, Vale of Glamorgan) Jonathan Edwards MP (Plaid Cymru, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) Susan Elan Jones MP (Labour, Clwyd South) Owen Smith MP (Labour, Pontypridd) Robin Walker MP (Conservative, Worcester) Powers The Committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the internet via www.parliament.uk Publications The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the internet at www.parliament.uk/welshcom The Reports of the Committee, the formal minutes relating to that report, oral evidence taken and some or all written evidence are available in printed volumes. Additional written evidence may be published on the internet only. Committee staff The current staff of the Committee is Marek Kubala (Clerk), Anwen Rees (Committee Specialist), Alison Mara (Senior Committee Assistant), Baris Tufekci (Committee Assistant), and Jessica Bridges-Palmer (Media Officer). Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Welsh Affairs Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 3264; and the Committee’s email address is [email protected] List of witnesses Thursday 11 July 2013 Page Sophie Howe, Deputy PCC, South Wales, Ian Johnston QPM, Gwent, Winston Roddick, CB, QC, PCC, North Wales and Christopher Salmon, PCC Dyfed-Powys. Ev 1 List of written evidence 1 Christopher Salmon, Police and Crime Commissioner for Dyfed-Powys Ev 12 2 Winston Roddick QC CM, Police and Crime Commissioner for North Wales Ev 12 3 Letter from Chair to Winston Roddick QC CM, dated 16 October 2013 Ev 14 4 Letter from Winston Roddick QC CM to Chair, dated 28 October 2013 Ev 15 5 Ian Johnston QPM, Police and Crime Commissioner for Gwent Ev 15 6 Letter from Chair to Ian Johnston QPM, dated 12 November 2013 Ev 16 7 Letter from Ian Johnston to QPM to Chair, dated 19 November 2013 Ev 16 8 Alun Michael, Police and Crime Commissioner for South Wales Ev 16 cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [SO] Processed: [28-02-2014 17:05] Job: 034841 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/034841/034841_o001_steve_CORRECTED transcript - FINAL - WAC 11 07 13 PCCs.xml Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence Taken before the Welsh Affairs Committee on Thursday 11 July 2013 Members present: David T. C. Davies (Chair) Stephen Doughty Simon Hart Jonathan Edwards Jessica Morden Nia Griffith ________________ Examination of Witnesses Witnesses: Sophie Howe, Deputy Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC), South Wales, Ian Johnston QPM, PCC, Gwent, Winston Roddick CB QC, PCC, North Wales, and Christopher Salmon, PCC, Dyfed-Powys, gave evidence. Q1 Chair: I welcome the commissioners and the There is a recognition that a train is coming down the deputy commissioner and thank them for coming track at a high speed in terms of local authority along this morning. Thank you very much indeed. As funding. So, reductions in police funding, combined there are four of you here and some of the questions with reductions in local authority funding, which are are quite general, it would be helpful if everyone really key in terms of doing things to prevent crime— could be as concise as possible. Otherwise, we are such as social services and various other going to be here for four times as long as probably interventions—and a potential for increased most of us would like to be. community problems, I would say, through welfare I will start with a quick general question. You have reform and other measures, will present a all been in post now for eight months. In no particular particularly challenging— order, how do you see the role of police commissioner developing? What would you say are the key policing Q2 Chair: I could always chuck in this question as a challenges in Wales today? Perhaps I could go from supplementary: why have you been so successful in left to right on the panel. I have quite rightly been cutting crime? advised that I should declare a personal interest that Sophie Howe: There are a range of initiatives that we is a matter of record, and that is that I am special are taking and have been taking over a number of constable. I will start with Ms Howe, if I may. years. I think that the partnership working that we Sophie Howe: We have had quite a challenging time, have been doing is really bearing fruit. We are in that the elections were in November and, very absolutely determined. We do not see reductions in quickly after that, there was a need to set a precept funding as an excuse for not performing well, and we and to develop the police and crime reduction plan. In will continue to do that. I think that the point that I the normal course of events, we would have wanted am making is that there will come a point, and I think to have a much greater opportunity for consultation that that point is probably not far off, where something on those things, although we did our best to engage that is very challenging might become near with a large number of communities and stakeholders impossible. in that process. We have established a police and crime reduction plan Q3 Chair: Mr Johnston, do you have any thoughts that has 15 priorities in south Wales. We are quite on the main challenges? pleased with it. We are still developing the specific Ian Johnston: Good morning, Mr Davies. Good actions around the fairly high-level priorities in the morning, everyone. I will try not to repeat some of plan. the items that Sophie has already covered. The plan, The precept was slightly contentious in south Wales, yes, is a big challenge for all of us, given the but we needed to take the decisions that we did timescales. I think that a bigger challenge, really, was because of reductions in funding from the Home getting people to understand, internally and externally, Office, and because, historically, South Wales Police the change in the governance landscape. That has been has had a very low precept base. The police and crime easier for some than for others, but I do stress that is panel voted on that 10 to two, so it went through. both internal and external. I think it is also about In terms of the challenges, the cuts are extremely trying to get out and about as much as possible to challenging for us, particularly in what a lot of people address some of the less positive stories in the media are defining as a perfect storm, in that the cuts are not about the introduction of PCCs. just hitting the police, although they are hitting the Winston Roddick: [Translation.] Thank you very police substantially. To a certain extent, the other much, Chair, for the invitation to be here today on a public sector partners in Wales have had some significant occasion in the history of the protection from the Welsh Government, so I am commissioners. This is the best platform to give an talking about local authorities in particular, which are explanation of what our functions are and what faces key partners of ours. us as challenges. cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [28-02-2014 17:05] Job: 034841 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/034841/034841_o001_steve_CORRECTED transcript - FINAL - WAC 11 07 13 PCCs.xml Ev 2 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence 11 July 2013 Sophie Howe, Ian Johnston QPM, Winston Roddick CB QC and Christopher Salmon There have been many challenges, but I think, without for commissioners and chief constables should be and repeating anything that has come from my colleagues, is, ‘Would having one police force make it any more that the greatest challenge for me has been the novelty difficult to achieve the principal statutory duty, and/or newness of the role. It is an unprecedented namely providing an effective and efficient police constitutional role and, because it is unprecedented, I force?’ If it would not, there is no reason why you have no-one to turn to that I can ask, ‘How did you should not have one. If it would, that is a reason for do this yesterday?’, for I have no yesterdays to look not having it.
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