Cooper: Today we're really ... First of all, we want to thank Zoe Adams from ... Where are you from Zoe?

Zoe: Originally I am from Essex, but I now-

Cooper: What is Essex?

Zoe: What is Essex?

Cooper: Yeah.

Zoe: Well, so it's a county to the east of London. Essex has a lot of bad stereotypes, sadly.

Cooper: What are some of the ... because I know there was a famous television show made about Essex. What was it called?

Zoe: I love that show, yes, The Only Way is Essex. I don't think that does us any favors, to be honest.

Cooper: What's wrong? What are the stereotypes about Essex?

Zoe: Stereotypes ... Usually, it's the way we speak. We tend to drop our T's and we'll go like, instead of saying, "Hello, how are you?" We'll be, "All right, how you doing? You okay?" It's very ... It just hurts [crosstalk 00:01:01]

Cooper: Can I try that one?

Zoe: Yeah, please do. Go on.

Cooper: Can you say it one more time?

Zoe: Try, "Hi ya, you alright? Yeah."

Cooper: Hi ya! No. I could do this one. "That's funny."

Zoe: "Oh, that's so funny." Yeah we do say, "Yeah, oh that's so funny," even though it's not funny. It's never funny. You could have just gone to hospital and I'd be like, "Oh my god, that's so funny."

Cooper: Actually, I said that ... I think that's just the English speaking modern culture, because there was somebody here at Oxford from America, and I had heard that's funny a few times. And then, one day I realized he said, "That's funny," and you could tell ... First of all, I wasn't trying to be funny. Second of all, you could tell that he didn't think it was funny, and I realized people would say that's funny when they don't have anything to say. podcast Zoe (Completed 09/28/18) Page 1 of 11 Transcript by Rev.com Zoe: Yeah, it's just filling the space, really. It's just a way to keep the conversation going without it stopping. And agreeing with the person, you're being agreeable, agreeing with their point of view. It's really funny. I don't know why we say it.

Cooper: I wanna talk to you more about that, because it's very interesting - British politeness. But before we talk about that, I want you to tell us about the stereotypes of Essex.

Zoe: Okay, so aside from the accent, and certain words as well-

Cooper: What are certain words? Can you tell us one?

Zoe: I feel like ... Oh god, what would be a typical Essex word? I feel like the media don't really use them that well, but one would probably be totes for totally.

Cooper: Do you say that, instead of saying totally, do you say totes?

Zoe: No. I often do obvs for obviously.

Cooper: Obvs. What would a dialogue be with obvs?

Zoe: Mind you, that's usually with one of my oldest friends, but she'd say, "Yeah, I'm obviously not gonna ... There's a party, and I'm definitely gonna go," and I'd go, "Yeah, well obvs."

Cooper: Does she always go to parties?

Zoe: She actually goes out quite a lot, yeah. When she[crosstalk 00:03:43]

Cooper: So she says, "There's a party, and I'm definitely gonna go," and you say, "Yeah, obvs," and obvs would mean obvious?

Zoe: Yeah it's like, "Well yeah duh, of course you're going." But there's probably others that I just can't remember on the spot. But they're ones that I feel like Essex don't actually use, but a lot of people think that we use. And they're ones that TOWIE, so The Only Way is Essex - TOWIE is what it's called, have glamorized. You know shup, for shut up? That's a main one. But we actually say that, like, "Oh, shup."

Cooper: Shup? Shut up?

Zoe: Yeah-

Cooper: Shut up.

Cooper: What's the difference between the Essex accent and the London accent? The East London accent? podcast Zoe (Completed 09/28/18) Page 2 of 11 Transcript by Rev.com Zoe: It's really difficult to tease apart the differences, but there's Cockney, which is your Eastenders, and that's your working class London accent. The Essex accent, or at least the accent that you might hear, I guess in just describing it very bluntly and not academically would be as kind of, "You alright? Yeah, how are you? Yeah, I'm good," and it's just-

Cooper: Does that-

Zoe: Yeah, that.

Cooper: Does that annoy you when people ... Because I think my students and the people listening know how are you, right? Sometimes it annoys me when people say, "Are you alright?" Not the way you say it, but more like, "Are you alright?" Because they always say it as if I just fell off of a bicycle.

Zoe: Yeah. No, that's-

Cooper: Are you alright? And I don't know what to say, like, "Why not, do I look like I'm in trouble?"

Zoe: Yeah, I completely agree, and I think actually when I went to Australia, people were confused why we'd often say, "Oh hi, you alright?" Because I often say, on the phones to my friends, I'm like, "Hi, you alright?"

Zoe: "Yeah good, you?"

Zoe: "Yeah."

Zoe: I feel like how are you-

Cooper: Is the same?

Zoe: Yeah, it's completely the same, but how are you, I would speak only very, very formally. Otherwise, I'd say, "How you doing? How's things? What's up?" How are you is informal.

Cooper: I think it's annoying, too. When people say, "How are you?" Since I know they don't care, I always say stuff like, "I'm shit." When I first got to Oxford, because how are you, I think this is a very American thing. When I first got to Oxford, a lot of the Americans said, "How are you?" And I would be angry, so I would challenge them and I would say, "Shit. Do you wanna know more?" They didn't like me, but I didn't like them either.

Zoe: Yeah, I can see why. It's because you never expect someone to give an actual honest answer. It's something people say when again, it's just a politeness thing. You always say, "Hi, how are you?"

Zoe: "Good thank you, you?" podcast Zoe (Completed 09/28/18) Page 3 of 11 Transcript by Rev.com Zoe: "Yep."

Zoe: And you could be having the worst day ever, but you would always say, "Good thanks, you?"

Zoe: "Fine, thanks." And that's it.

Cooper: I don't like that, I think it's too fake.

Zoe: Yeah, it's very fake. It's when you're passing someone in the street who you know, you're not gonna say, "Well now actually, feeling really crap today." But you don't want to obviously stop them and go into detail, because you can't really be arsed-

Cooper: But why don't you just say, "Hello," or why don't you say, "Good afternoon," or something?

Zoe: Because then, it seems rude. You want to be seen asking how they are, but really, neither of you care.

Cooper: I've never heard anybody explain it so clearly. You've just explained how bullshit and hypocritical it is. Even though-

Zoe: Oh yeah, it's [crosstalk 00:07:56]

Cooper: Everybody says it. I don't, but everybody else I know says it. But at least if ... Now that I have this recording, I can always show people why I don't like it, because people say it when they don't wanna seem rude, but really they don't care.

Zoe: No, they don't care. You don't care, but you want to acknowledge that you care enough about them to formulate that as an answer. If someone goes, "Hi."

Zoe: "Hi."

Zoe: Then it's awkward.

Cooper: Rude. It's rude.

Zoe: "Hi, how are you?"

Zoe: "Good, good. You?"

Zoe: "Yeah."

Zoe: And that's the bog standard, boxed up, cross-in-the-street answer.

Cooper: People would say, "How are you?" And another thing I said a lot is, "Hi." podcast Zoe (Completed 09/28/18) Page 4 of 11 Transcript by Rev.com Cooper: "How are you?"

Cooper: "Hi."

Zoe: Yeah, hi, yeah. Oh yeah.

Cooper: I don't think they like that, though.

Zoe: Hey and hi are the two that I use. Hello. Hello. That's the most basic word. Sorry, yeah.

Cooper: Can you tell us a little more about the ... What about Essex girls? Not you, but in general, because people ... I don't think my audience knows, but in England, I definitely think there's a stereotype about Essex girls. Although I don't know what it is, I hear it all the time.

Zoe: Okay. Essex girls are typically very dumb, very ditzy. We have blonde hair, we have white stilettos - so white high heels, short skirts, we're slags - so we're very easy, like sleep with any guy-

Cooper: What does slag mean, because I don't think my listeners know the slang word slag.

Zoe: Promiscuous.

Cooper: Promiscuous?

Zoe: Yeah. It means that it doesn't take much to get into bed. And you just like a good time, drink a lot, and ditzy - so dumb, basically.

Cooper: Okay. Let's keep going, then. I wanna ask you a question about George, because some of my audience knows George. How do you know George?

Zoe: George I know from school. We were at school together.

Cooper: At what age?

Zoe: Oh my god. Well, we were in school together from 11, but me and him probably didn't become close friends until I'd say between the age of 18 and 20. It was probably after actually, we'd gone to uni and graduated, that we became close. Maybe not-

Cooper: You were friends in school, before uni, right?

Zoe: Yeah we were. There was a big gang of us, and we knew each other from them, probably. And then we've just ... yeah.

Cooper: He has a different accent than you have.

Zoe: He does, yeah. George is far more refined than I am. podcast Zoe (Completed 09/28/18) Page 5 of 11 Transcript by Rev.com Cooper: Is he more refined, or does he just speak more refined?

Zoe: No, I think he's just generally more refined. I think he's the smartest guy I know. His etiquette ... I could have food down my top, I'll eff and blind - which means swear a lot, I'll swear and I'll do everything, I don't really care. George, I see him as a refined gentleman, he is a gentleman.

Zoe: I think that's probably why we get on so well, because we both love in depth conversations and stuff, but I think I admire that he's at that end of the spectrum, he probably admires that I just don't really give a shit too much about a lot of things.

Cooper: Can I ask you another question, then?

Zoe: Of course.

Cooper: So you know people are going to be listening, and they're going to, I am sure, think your accent is really exotic.

Zoe: Oh my god.

Cooper: But when people think about England, one thing they think about is the history. And you have this name, Zoe Adams, and it seems very English. Do you ever think about being English, about having that nationality, and do you feel cool, like your ancestors maybe they were living in London [crosstalk 00:12:56] years ago?

Zoe: Yeah, I do. I definitely ... I think being in London is different to being in the rest of the UK sometimes. I think that was something which I think definitely became apparent with the whole Brexit thing. But London's a bit of a bubble.

Cooper: How is London different than the rest of England?

Zoe: I think London is hugely fast-paced. The pace of life is ... And no doubt in other cities as well, such as Birmingham, Manchester ... But London is very, very fast-paced. It's really multi-cultural. Again, that's similar to other cities in the UK. But also it's known as the hub of economics, politics, it's like the gravity for the UK, so there's a lot going on there and people just get really, really caught up.

Zoe: I think when you move to the countryside, and outside of big cities, the pace of life is much slower, and also obviously trends and innovation happens in London much quicker. If something's gonna happen, then it's gonna probably hit London first. So in that sense, it's more advanced in certain ways, and so on.

Cooper: How is, for example, how is it fast-paced in London compared to slow-paced, for example, in Essex?

Zoe: I think people ... I feel like time is definitely slower in London, because people are very ambitious in London. You go to London to do a really big career - and that's not to say podcast Zoe (Completed 09/28/18) Page 6 of 11 Transcript by Rev.com that ambitious only live in London, that's not the case at all. But you've got all the city, where there's big financial businesses, and law firms, and all sorts. So you have that vision of going up the escalator to work, down the escalator to come. And it's nine-to- five, nine-to-five and that carries you, and next thing you know, you're 35 and you think, "Ah shit, I've still got to get married and haven't had kids," so things are drawn out more.

Zoe: Also, there's more chances to do things like party and drink, because there's so many bars, there's so many nightclubs, there's so many random events, festivals, and stuff going on, that I feel like you get Peter Pan syndrome. You know, you want to be young forever, because there's so much going on. Whereas when you live in the countryside, and there isn't that much, it's almost like, "Right. Okay, shall we get married? Shall we have a kid? Okay." So typically, I feel like it's just slower there. It's calmer.

Cooper: For me, I work so hard, and then I used to hear, in Oxford, I used to really go out all the time. There was a time when I felt that if I didn't go out every day of the week ... I didn't, but the days I didn't ... I almost got addicted to it. Now, I work so hard, and then I think these people in the city, for example, they work so hard. They're working so hard, and they have this expression - work hard, play hard. And then I think, "That must be very stressful, because they never have time to relax."

Zoe: Yeah, hundred percent. 100 percent. Work hard, play hard. Yeah, I completely agree. Some people drive themselves into the ground with it, and I think it's difficult, because I love the peace of the green hills of the countryside, and you know-

Cooper: Do you live near the countryside?

Zoe: Where my parents are, yeah. But my current view is of the Gherkin and the city. And-

Cooper: What's the Gherkin?

Zoe: The Gherkin is a building near Liverpool Street, and the Gherkin is one of the buildings - that's its nickname. Along with a building called the Cheesegrater, the Walkie-Talkie, and there's another one ... Anyway, yeah, there's just a group of buildings which have nicknames and that's by Liverpool Street, so it's where a lot of the - what's known as 'city slickers' go. People who work in the city, fresh out of university, and they go into banks and earn their millions. But it is-

Cooper: They go into banks, do they live in their own apartments?

Zoe: No, some actually commute. Say for example, from Essex. When you first come out of university, you can't afford to live in London. Sometimes you can, but typically you start off commuting in, and then when you can afford to move out and rent, and then you try to get a deposit, and then you buy a house, and then you probably move back out into Essex or the surrounding counties, or wherever you wanna go. podcast Zoe (Completed 09/28/18) Page 7 of 11 Transcript by Rev.com Cooper: Where do you see yourself? Do you want to stay in Essex? Do you want to stay in London? Do you want to stay in England?

Zoe: Funny you say that, actually, because I want to move and I thought I was done with East London. East London is, in my mind, the coolest place. Shoreditch, everywhere ... But I thought I was done with it, and then I looked at other places in London, and I was like, "You know what, I still wanna be by the canal, and by the parks," but I think I want to be in London for the next few years while I sort my career out. But I'm not against the idea of moving elsewhere later on, but there are certain places I [inaudible 00:18:51] to.

Cooper: Do you think that you could move to a different country, and live away from English people? Do you ever think about that? Is that something that you ever think about as a possibility in life?

Zoe: Yeah. I lived in France and Spain, and I would probably like to live in France again, but the pace of life is very slow. I like the stimulation here, there's so many bright lights and fast cars, and I've got quite lot of energy, so it-

Cooper: It does seem like you have a lot of energy.

Zoe: Yeah, people have asked me if I have ADHD. I don't, just to let you and the listeners know. It keeps up with me, so that's why I like it. But I would move to France, maybe Canada, but it depends where life takes me. I wouldn't move to America and anywhere else in the UK, probably not. I'd move to the Home Counties, around London maybe, later on.

Cooper: So you really believe that the rest of your life, you'll be in this place?

Zoe: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I'd move away for a bit, and then come back. But I'd probably like to be in London or it's surroundings, with easy access to London.

Cooper: Can I ask you one last question?

Zoe: Of course.

Cooper: I've seen a lot of films about London in the old days. I like to watch old movies, and it seems so different than today. When I thought about you 20 years from now, and I thought, "Well, I bet London will be nothing like it is now." But I think it will be even faster. Do your parents ever talk about how England or London has changed?

Zoe: Yes.

Cooper: When they were kids, do they ever mention that?

Zoe: Yes, so my dad is from Southeast London, and he's 75, so he was growing up in London in the 50s. He was around Southeast London in a place called Bermondsey area. When I say now, I'm like, "Oh dad, I'm looking at flats in this area," and he's like, "You don't podcast Zoe (Completed 09/28/18) Page 8 of 11 Transcript by Rev.com wanna live there, mate, that's a shithole." And I'm like, "Dad, it's so expensive now. It's so nice." He was like, "No mate. No. It's crap. Why do you wanna live there?"

Zoe: He hasn't seen London since it's changed.

Cooper: Oh, really?

Zoe: Yeah, he hasn't seen it. He now loves the quiet life, and lives in Essex. But he's definitely got it in his mind that it's still the same place that it was - markets, and it's not this ... He hasn't seen any of the new architecture, or the gentrification, or anything like that.

Cooper: He remembers London as being a slower place?

Zoe: Yeah, and also noisy, and dirty, and he doesn't put it on a pedestal like I do. He just is like, "Ah, it's a lod of shit."

Zoe: Whereas my mom loves it. She sees it as the theater, and restaurants, and all these places. For her it's this magical place. I think that's ... When I was young [inaudible 00:22:24] to London, it was like-

Cooper: Does she think London, England has changed, your mother, or no?

Zoe: I think she definitely thinks in terms of the way people ... So my mom speaks very, very well. My dad doesn't. I've probably [inaudible 00:22:37] more towards my dad, but mum I think, thinks the way people speak has changed and also the way they dress, and also jobs, I think.

Cooper: What does she say about jobs?

Zoe: Dad's like, "What do you wanna do, mate? What do you wanna do now?" And he was like, "Do you wanna teach? Do you wanna be a lawyer?" I'm like, "No, I'd like to do something in wellbeing and mental health." He's like, "Oh, uh." He doesn't count it as a thing, he's got very segmented jobs that people do, and he doesn't think, say digital office manager, or I don't know, innovation advisor, they aren't things in his head. From the 50s, our parents did jobs which were very typical. They're just black or white jobs.

Cooper: For example, work in a bank.

Zoe: Yeah, banker, you're a teacher, you're a lawyer, or you stay at home and that's it.

Cooper: They're not at banks anymore. They don't realize, instead of bankers, they're people who do these things you're talking about - digital [crosstalk 00:23:35]

Zoe: Yeah, they aren't aware that now, the options that we have for jobs are so, so vast. And I think that's why it's so difficult for us to work out what we want to do, and also I feel like we live in an age where we're constantly told you can do anything. I think that's a little bit dangerous, because actually there's more competition now because of podcast Zoe (Completed 09/28/18) Page 9 of 11 Transcript by Rev.com globalization. We're competing against the world now, rather than against people in our village for a job. People are willing to move all over the world for a job, and I think that makes it much harder. We're sold a false dream, really.

Cooper: That's right, because somebody else just said the same thing to me today. My haircutter, he said the exact same thing, we're told we can do anything. I was just thinking that when you work for a company, in the old days ... I know it seems like you have more choice, but in one way, you have less choice, because I think it was easier to start a small business in the old days than today. Like today, if for example, George and I start a business, but even doing it, we have to do so many things to start it. Whereas, I think it was easier in the past to start just a business in your village.

Zoe: I completely agree.

Cooper: Selling clothes, or selling hardware - a hardware store.

Zoe: Yeah, I think we have more choice for what we want to do, but it's harder to get there, if that makes sense. You might have 10 interviews to get onto an internship, and then you're not even guaranteed the job.

Cooper: And when you get an internship, do you get paid?

Zoe: It depends: some do paid internships, some they'll pay for your travel, and some they won't pay you at all. It depends. But I've just had to do some voluntary work, and I've had to do that, just because everywhere now, you need experience. Everyone's more qualified, it's really intense. So yeah, I think as you said, it's really difficult to get where you want to be, but you're told you can get wherever you want to be. I think that's like, yeah-

Cooper: I think it might be hard to deal with your parents in one sense, because maybe they don't realize how hard it is to get a job.

Zoe: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I think they see me applying, and an application these days can take eight hours ... But as you said, back in the day, you would leave a job and then you would start another one the next day. Definitely happened for my mom, she was a rep in Ibiza, and then she was running a hotel, and just moving all over the show.

Zoe: These days, if you wanna change career industry, you have to be prepared to go way back to the beginning, and you can't afford to do that. You have to be really careful when you take a job, you know, is this where I wanna go? Because if you wanna move out of it, really difficult, unless you've got the money.

Cooper: That's really interesting. I've been talking about this and thinking about it, as an outsider. But what you said was the impression I get. Okay, Zoe, it's been really great talking to you and it's gonna be interesting for my more advanced students to try to understand you, but that's great - they need to hear all these different accents. So it's really cool, and I'm sure I'll be seeing you soon enough. podcast Zoe (Completed 09/28/18) Page 10 of 11 Transcript by Rev.com Zoe: Thank you very much, thank you.

Cooper: Good luck until we meet again.

Zoe: Yes, thank you. See you later.

Cooper: Thanks for your time.

Zoe: No worries, any time.

Cooper: Bye-bye.

Zoe: Bye.

podcast Zoe (Completed 09/28/18) Page 11 of 11 Transcript by Rev.com