A TESTIMONY OF PRIDE: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF INGER FRELANDER
The following are excerpts taken from interviews with Grandma Frelander--Inger
Margrethe Jensen-Frelander--by her grandson Chad C. Barthelemy on November 29, 1986 and January 6 and 7, 1987 at the Virgil and Gloria Strom (Grandma's son-in-law and daughter) residence at 9118 Emerson Ave. So., Bloomington, Minnesota.
Frelander [Side one of tape one] C: Let's start out Grandma, by having you tell me aboutInger your origins in Denmark. Society I: My grandma from Copenhagen, Denmark waswith born 75 long years ago in Copenhagen, Denmark. I lived in an orphanage for about a year and a half before someone fell over me
(laughter) and decided to take me along home. I was sick. I wasn't able to walk. I wasn't Historical able to stand. I wasn't able to do anything, I had rickets so bad. And they doctored with me for about. .. oh, for all ofinterview a year. They wrapped my joints with bandages from my neck down. history Carol: Who's they? Minnesota Oral I: My foster mother. . .I should say my foster mother, because the one that did it. And they, and it all settled in my teeth. Rickets always settles someplace, but instead of me becoming a crippled, all it did was settle in my teeth and decayed my teeth-that was all, no big deal. Later on in years that was remedied. Whereas had I been a cripple that would not have been remedied, see. So I could do anything like anybody else. Well anyway, I went to school in Denmark, of course. I had started the third year that we were going to
America.
Carol: When you say your foster mom you mean Grandma Jensen, don't you?
I: Grandma Jensen. That's right she was my foster mother, Grandma Jensen.
Carol: When did they adopt you? Frelander I: They adopted me when I was about a year and a half old. I was born in 1911. They adopted me in 1912-at the end of 1912. No, no, they didn'tInger adopt me until I was 9 years old. Right. They didn't adopt me until I came to America. TheySociety could take me along to this country. They couldn't take me out of Denmark.with I was just a foster child before then. Yes. Right. Definitely. Actually I didn't know that they weren't my parents until I, you know, maybe said something a little bit cocky to one of my friends and she says, "Don't be Historical so smart, you don't even have any parents," she says [laughs]. [Still laughing] I ran home to find out what that was allinterview about. [Laughter] And I found out that yea it was true, but, ah, they were the only parents I knew. But I used to go shopping up town with my mother and I washistory always--kind of a slow poke I guess. I was always looking to the back of me, rather than the headMinnesota of me. I always stumbled on something in front of me [laughter],Oral because I never looked where I was going. But anyway, that is neither here nor there. I found out we were going to America one bright day and I flew to school to announce to the whole class that I was going to America. And I don't remember anything else being done in that school day. That took care of it. And I don't remember much from there on except that some friends of ours, oh, whom we had gotten acquainted with from
America were the ones that we were going to go to over here in this country and he became friends with a friend of ours and married her and the little girl that, that they, that
2 she had was a friend of mine. So of course I became reacquainted with her after we came back, came to America.
Carol: Who was that?
I: Johanna. Johanna Larsen, her name was. But, I guess, I don't know about her that much because she moved far away .. .long ago.
Carol: You knew her here? Frelander
I: I knew her in Denmark. I knew her here too. Sure, Ingerwe were together when I came here, too. Sure, because we were going to farm with this fellow.Society Actually, that is, we were going to, he was going to help us get started.with It was a different story when came to this, kind of, what we figured was going to be the white slavery where he had figured he was going to get a family now with a half grown daughter and almost a full grown son, Historical that he was going to make hay with the whole family. He had a big farm. He didn't have the farm he said he did, but heinterview just rented it. But we were supposed to run it. And Dad says, "No." history Carol: He thought he wasMinnesota going to be set up on your own farm. Oral I: But he didn't. So here we were stuck in a strange country and the money, after it was converted into the English dollar, it amounted to $127. And we had no, we didn't have any language, we were language barrier. We didn't understand English. We didn't understand anything. We rode to Rosendale where we got to know Alan Jensen's and they were a big help; they were Danes.
3 Carol: Could you back up? Do you remember anything of the trip from the ship in New
York to Minnesota?
I: Oh, yes. When we first left Denmark, you know, 4 o'clock in the morning, we went to the dock. A taxi came and picked us up. And we went to the dock and, oh, bordered the ship. Helligalar-- was the name of the ship. It was a Norwegian ship. I was a Norwegian liner.
C: Was it named after anyone? Frelander
I: No, it wasn't the name of anybody. It was the name Ingerof the ship, but it's a Norwegian name. It was a Norwegian ship. And I only remember one personSociety that was there to wave good-bye. And that was my Aunt Viola. Andwith I wondered what Fred was doing on the other side of the ship, why he wasn't there to wave good-bye, but he wasn't interested. He was over on the other side exploring already you know. And after we got to New York I Historical found out she was my real mother. That was a bummer. You know I thought "good grief." Here I was, that theyinterview told me that before I got way over here. I wrote to her 3 times, but I never got an answer back. She had cut the ties and that was it. But anyway on the way over here. historyMinnesota Carol:Oral Did you see a lot of her then before when you that she was your aunt?
I: She used to come and visit me. I always called her my Aunt Viola. She used to bring me things. I used to wonder you know--I wasn't that old--I used to wonder because it. I bothered me. She'd bring me things but she'd never bring anything for Fred. That kind of bothered me, because I liked Fred real well and I thought he should have some gifts when
I was getting something why wasn't he getting anything you know. But of course, you
4 know, not being that old I accepted whatever I got [laughs] and said "thank you." She also had a little boy, my brother. He was fours years younger than I. And a little rascal. I loved dishes and he promptly picked then, broke them all. He was a little rascal. His hair was pure white. He was what they call an albino. His hair was pure white. But I don't anything about him. But anyway we start out over Skaderak, Kategat, and up into the northern sea. When we got into the North Sea we couldn't see shore any more. We passed Norway we saw the beautiful pines up there. We went in between Sweden and
Denmark and then up passed Norway. It was beautiful up there--the fjords. We saw the fjords. After that we got into the open water and the we saw nothingFrelander for days. I think what they said it took seven days to cross the ocean. And then of course, I'll back track. We were traveling as third class. There was 1st, 2nd, andInger 3 rd class and of course we were not well enough off We paid our own fare. That was the 3rd Societyfare. with Carol: What part of the ship were you on?
Historical I: That was the lower. As you talk about the Titanic, we would have been the first to go down. We would have beeninterview the first to drown, because the second floor and the top floor, where the rich people were on the top floor and they are usually the ones that get going first, get out thehistory first. Then the second class. Of course, us kids were all over the ship. We were roaming all over.Minnesota We played all over and, ah, there were two Swedish girls that didn'tOral make it into, because they didn't have enough money. Their brother was supposed to meet them here and they were shipped back to, to Sweden. There was a young boy, well younger than you (points to me, I'm 21). Curly headed, dark haired. The boy was working his way across and he was sea sick all the time. And the officers used to make fun of him because he couldn't handle it and we could handle it. And he put us up as examples to this poor kid, you know. (laughs) "Look at, they can handle it, why can't you," they'd say. And the poor kid felt,--just couldn't take the sea. Mother couldn't either
5 L and Fred, Dad and I it didn't bother us at all. Fred a little bit, but not as much. But mother couldn't take it at all. She was in the estate room, or cabin, whatever you call it.
Carol: Were your cabins under water? Could you see out your windows?
I: At times we could see. It depended on how calm the sea was. Well, I remember we
had some strong seas and I remember the fog horn. I remember we would meet ships in
the fog and one fog horn would go and we would hear the one from the on coming ship. There was one time we passed a ship, we were so close that we couldFrelander almost reach out and shake hands with those that were going to Europe and were going on to America. And I also remember how we follow allover and the threeInger of us were always going here and there and one fell down and got hold of her head. Blood allSociety over the place ... anyway this one girl fell down and we couldn't bring herwith back to her mother with that blood, so we hauled her to the ship's doctor. We knew where he was. And he wrapped her up; she
looked like a mummy when we brought her to her mother and she probably passed out. Historical [Laughter] interview
C: Were most of the people immigrants on the ship? history I: Yes, there was a lotMinnesota of Polish people; an awful lot of Polish people and they were very, very Oralsick. And they were on one end of the ship. All the Polish people were on one end of the ship. And the reason for that is [laughs], they are very hardy on onions and when
they were sick, I'm telling you, no one else could be around there. [Laughter] And then
we had some Jewish people that absolutely refused to take their hat off on certain days at
the table. And so they were not allowed to sit. The officers told them they to leave the
table unless they took their hat off. So they took their families and went to their rooms
and nobody got to eat. Then the officers, flO.K., if we're going to punish your family, why
6 sit down, keep hats on, do whatever you want, we don't want to punish the whole family
and not have them have something to eat just because you won't take your hats off." It was their religion, it was their, it was their, you know. So they allowed them to come
back. We had Christmas aboard ship and we kids were allowed to take after Christmas
was over take trimmings from the tree and divide among ourselves. And we had an old
sailor that was going to bring us candy when we docked in New York. And so, my folks and this poor man with a pipe and his hat, he was losing half of the time. He never knew where his pipe was. He was a wreck--a nervous wreck, because he was always losing his hat or his pipe. He didn't know where the kids were. He was a nervousFrelander wreck. Well anyway when we were ready to get off the ship he couldn't find his kids, they couldn't find me. They were in a line ready to go off. We were lookingInger for this old sailor. He promised us candy and he wasn't around, so we went looking forSociety him. (laughter) They, no doubt, put him to work, you know. But anyway,with when we come within ear shot of New York the band started playing "The Star Spangled Banner." That was beautiful and then
we saw the statue of liberty. That's something I never will forget. Historical
c: Was that the band on theinterview ship?
I: The band on the ship--orchestra. historyMinnesota c: DoOral you know the actual dates of the trip?
I: We left, well I said we had Christmas on board the ship. O.K.. And it took across the water was about 7 days. So we must have left the middle part of December, 1920, I would say. We were in Ellis Island for a day or two. We got to Minnesota on New
Year's Day (1921) at one o'clock--Grove City. It also took us, we were also laid over for
a few days in Illinois, in Chicago.
7 C: How did you get from New York to Minnesota?
I: By train. It only took about a day or so from Chicago to Minnesota.
C: Could you back up? You told me once about a man that was almost thrown overboard.
I: Oh, yes. We had a storm, a bad storm and everybody was ordered off the deck. Nobody, but nobody must go on the deck. The waves were comingFrelander up and going right across the deck and this one brave soul was going to go up there any how and did. And all of a sudden it was shouted, everyone heard it all over,Inger "Man overboard! Man overboard!" The boats were dropped then before they realized Societyhe was hanging on the side, on the outside. He had been washed over,with but he grabbed a hold and there he was hanging for dear life! He never went down again. I tell you, he stayed in when he was ordered to stay in. (laughter) He was right across the deck and, you know, there is Historical railings there and he washed through there and was hanging on to the railings there. interview
C: Did you come by train all the way to Grove City? history I: Yea, from New YorkMinnesota to Grove City. We changed in Chicago, [but the train took us right Oralto Grove City]. On the way back here we had a lady that was from Chicago. She was a butcher's wife. She went to Denmark to have her last baby--little Johanna. We didn't know her when she went over there, but we did know her when she came back, because she became a very good friend. I think one of her daughters, well he one daughter, I wonder if she isn't the one that got the whole in the head. Anyway, she had this girl. She had twin boys when she went over there and was expecting this baby and she wanted it born in Denmark. And, ah, she had to layover in New York in a hotel and
8 one of her twins fell out of the window and was killed. (sighs) She had to send the body back to Chicago to his Dad to take care of (more sighs). That was really bad. And then she proceeded on to Denmark and had her baby and the little baby was Johanna was named Johanna. And she came back with the other little girl and the twin and the baby when we came. And she was the one that helped us all the way to Chicago. After
Chicago we were on our own. And we could not understand anything. When we got to
Wayzata we thought they said Grove City and we got off My brother was all the way off and Dad was partly off Mother and I hadn't gotten off yet. And all of a sudden the train started and those trains were fast--those passenger trains were fast.Frelander There was no time when they started and they were up to 75 miles an hour! In no time flat! Dad got on but Fred didn't! He got a hold of the railing there and he hadInger a big suit--he was fourteen years old, you know--he had one of the big suitcases he was hangingSociety on to and he wasn't going to drop it. The train speeded up and the suitcasewith was harder to--he couldn't get it up. There was no way he could, but he held on to it--he hung on to that and the conductor went down there and he told Dad to hang onto his hand "I'll try to get a hold of the Historical suitcase." They stood there and struggled with him. I was beside myself I was so afraid he was going to falloff that interviewtrain. It was terrible I think I scream louder.... It was really bad news. And then at one o'clock then, we finally arrived at Grove City. Then they told us, "This is Grove City, this is where you get off" historyMinnesota Carol:Oral At one o'clock in the afternoon on New Year's Day?
I: One o'clock New Year's Day. First day of January, 1921. We stayed then at this place that had gotten us over here--this man and his new wife and his little girl--Christie--right in
Grove City with him for a couple of weeks. And while we were there.
Carol: Who was that?
9 I: Christiensen. While we were there Fred became known to be the most polite boy they
had ever met. We were polite in Denmark. Kids did not speak to grown ups without
thank you and please and tip their hat and the girls bowed--curtsied. Of course it wasn't
long after we'd been here that all that was--kind of went by the wayside you know. And
then there was a man that we lived close by there and, I don't know, and he went to give
me a dime for candy, because they had a little candy store--Redine's--you know. And I
should go up there and buy candy and I says, "No, I wasn't allowed to take candy from
strange people." I wouldn't take his dime. Frelander C: How did you get that across? Did he speak Danish? Inger I: Oh yea, he could speak [Danish]. It was ah, oh, I think I couldSociety even tell you who it was ifl could even think of his name right now.with I can't right think of his name. He was <..., down in the stables there taking care of the horses and he was, I can't remember [his name]. Historical
C: So Grove City was Danish?interview
I: No, Grove historyCity was mostly Swede going to the north. Going to the south was Danes- Rosendale. So that's whereMinnesota this man had rented a farm--south, down by Rosendale. And it wasn'tOral long, we hadn't been there too long before, of course Dad realized that that was what he had wanted us to do--go on his farm and work for him. And Dad, that wasn't
what he understood when we came to this country. So Dad went out and bought a team
of horses for $16--Pat and Mike. And he went and he bought three cows and I don't
know what he paid for them, but apparently he didn't pay too much. They were bred and
were going to calf in a short time. In fact, the one was quite old and calved on the way
home. They walked a long ways and couldn't handle it and she died on the way home and
10 Dad used his pocket knife to take that calf and carried it home and we fed it with a bottle with the milk from the other cows. And we saved it. We got this place close by this other people, because he didn't want any part of this, but we had $127 of American money after we cashed in our Danish money.
C: Did you do that in America or in Denmark?
I: No, no we had to do that in America when we got over here. Frelander Carol: And $60 of that went to the horses? Inger I: No $16. Society with Carol: And where was this that you settled?
Historical I: This was on a farm about a mile and a half east and south of Rosendale. interview
Carol: Was that a Danish community? history I: Yes. And I had 3 milesMinnesota to go to school where I just had to go around the comer in Copenhagen.Oral I had 3 miles to go to school. And I never had a pair of over shoes. Dad went to Rosendale and he got me a pair of boys shoes. They were high you know, so that
he only had to get me 1 pair of shoes--no rubbers. And I had a corduroy coat, unlined.
See it wasn't very cold in Denmark, that an unlined coat was plenty warm in Denmark, but this weather over here was a very cold winter. I don't know, I must have sweaters underneath it on or something.
11 Carol: How was it that your family decided to come to America?
I: My Dad became acquainted through this lady that we knew as a friend in Denmark. He became acquainted with this gentleman friend of hers who was from America. And, oh, we got the understanding that he was a very wealthy man over here and he was making all kinds ofrosey, you know, a regular rose garden over here. We could pick bananas off the trees over here. We could do anything in America, you know. And then during the time we were over there we hadfastelavn, something like Halloween here. He says, "They don't have any such thing in America." Over there we hadfestelavn.Frelander We dressed up in costumes like they do here for Halloween. But instead of going out asking for tricks or treats like that we would shake that like do here for bells,Inger you know, and they would put a nickel or a dime in there. This is what we did. We'd meet you Societyand we'd shake this. Sometimes they would look the other way andwith go, you know, but most of the time a nickel or a penny or something in there, you know. And we'd go around and this fellow
says, "They don't do things like that in America; they're not beggars over there." (laughs) Historical Well, we didn't figure we were beggars because we did that, because that was kind of like a Halloween here. Like theyinterview go out for tricks or treats. Instead of asking for tricks and treats we just jiggled or little can and if they wanted to tum their back on us, that was
O.K.. historyMinnesota C: DoOral they have the same festival in Sweden?
I: Yes. They have something in the same order and so do the Norwegians, because
Florence used to say that.
C: Please re describe your trip to America.
12 I: The boat sailed off and we went through Kategat and Skaderak and we saw the fjords
and then we went through the North Sea.
C: Festelavn sounds German.
I: Well, there a lot German words that are the same as Danish words. I'm not quite sure, festelavn--my might be spelled l-a-v-n or I-v-n, I'm not sure but Festelavn--F-e-s- t-e is the first part. Frelander C: You did know you were coming to Minnesota? Inger I: Oh yes. And we knew exactly where we were coming. AndSociety a, we got to know different people, there were a lot of Danes downwith there. My first teacher came over when she was nine. And she was my first teacher. In fact, I know her to this day. I was down there to see her just a couple weeks ago. So I still know her; I still see her off and on. Historical
Carol: And her name? interview
I: Meta Madsen.history She was married to Theodore Madsen from down by Rosendale. I went to Sunday schoolMinnesota in a little actually it was kind of a town hall they had down there whereOral they had Sunday school for the kids who lived right around there.
Carol: Are we still talking about Rosendale now?
I: Yea. I'm still at Rosendale. We started then; what did the people call Dad. "The
farmer who starts with a pocket knife. That's all he's got, a pocket knife. "
13 ~ Carol: The people in the settlement then called him that?
I: Well, there were people that said that you know when you have $127, you're in a
strange country you can't do anything except try to make friends with your neighbors and
see maybe they can give you a little hand now and then. Dad had us machinery. He
would buy a few pieces of machinery. We bought another old horse--Old Mike. Oh yes,
poor Old Mike. I remember Mike. I used to drive to Rosendale. Dad made a two
wheeled cart for one horse. It was a neat thing. That was mine. I could drive to Rosendale and get some groceries or get anything we needed or somethingFrelander with Old Mike. And Old Mike died a terrible death. And at that time, ordinarily if Dad had a shotgun he'd have probably killed him and put him out ofInger his misery. But he died an awful death. And I felt so bad for that Old Mike after they buried himSociety down there. I'd go visit his grave everyday. And the song I had gottenwith to know was "Home Sweet Home." And I sang that to Mike everyday on his grave. One day I did a wrong thing. I guess I got up
on his grave and he had bloated you know. And when I got up there the noise that came Historical out of his body just scared me half to death. I never went to see Mike's grave again.
[Laughter] And it scared meinterview so bad. I sang "Home Sweet Home" to Mike everyday.
C: How big was Rosendale? historyMinnesota I: OhOral just a little thing ... it had a creamery and one store, this little town hall, 0 little grain elevator that you could buy, sell grain. And they also had [laughs] a little, oh dear, where
a they repair machinery--a blacksmith's shop. Blacksmith's shop. This fellow, this
blacksmith's shop, he lived by himself and next to him was an old lady and this was funny
too. [Laughs] Because he didn't like to do dishes, so he would just buy dishes and use
them. Then he'd throw them out and she'd go pick them up. She had all kinds of dishes,
because he'd throw them out and she'd pick them up. [Laughs] That's funny. Fred went
14 to work almost right away because we couldn't afford to have Fred stay with us, because we had all we could do to just feed the three of us I know there many times mother went to bed without anything to eat. She got to be just like skin and bones that first summer we were here. There was just not enough food and she saw to it that Dad and I had enough.
And of course I was too young [to appreciate it].
C: What did your Dad do for the first year?
I: In the spring he went to this farm~ he rented this farm. This fellowFrelander didn't even know that all he had was a pocket knife. I think it was this fellow that said, "all you have is a pocket knife." He didn't know this man he rented this farmInger to. But they became very good friends of ours even though Dad only had that pocket knife.Society Dad was very handy, like Virg, he could make things and fix things andwith do things. And this is how come he could manage even with the little money we had and Nelson brothers they were absolutely just marvelous. They let us have flour and all the necessities--charging it. And we would Historical pay it as soon as we could possibly get it. interview
C: Were they the store owners? history I: Yes, the store keepers.Minnesota Yea. Right. Now I don't know where Dad got the money. I supposeOral he helped other farmers and maybe he got paid a little. I don't know.
Carol: You said the first spring he rented this land, then did he plant?
I: Yes. But I don't know how he managed to do this planting and everything. I think the farmers must have helped him a little bit. I don't know how else he... I do remember he
15 <., cut a lot of hay with a scythe and raked it up with a rake and bundled it together by hand. A lot of that he did.
Carol: What was your father's occupation in Denmark?
I: He worked [for] a gas company with coal and he was actually up for retirement in a
short time. He had good pay in Denmark. And actually we had quite a bit of money with
us, but it didn't amount to anything in the English money. Frelander Carol: So what year was he born? Inger I: He was born in '77. Society with Carol: So he would have been forty-three. And he was up for retirement?
Historical I: He had worked there for some 20-25 years or something. interview
Carol: Where did you guys stay when you got here until spring? history I: With this man--ChrisMinnesota Christiansen. We stayed at his house. Oral Carol: So that first few months until Grandpa (your pa) started planning I suppose he did
handy for this Christiansen fellow?
I: Yes. He helped of course.
Carol: Grandpa (your pa) became a farmer here without any farming experience?
16 I: Yea, well. Well, I wouldn't say that, because he was raised on a farm in Denmark before he went to Copenhagen and got a job there. He was born of farm people in
Skaelskor [not in Danish alphabet] and was a farm boy there. They didn't have big farms in Denmark, you know. They were very small farms. They were mainly dairy farms you know. And they raised cows, hogs, and stuff like that.
C: What was your mother's background?
I: Mother was also from down there in Skaelskor [not in the DanishFrelander alphabet]. She was also a farm girl. She worked as a maid in a big castle. You saw that [referring to Virgal and Gloria Strom's trip to Denmarkl It was a beautifulInger castle. It was very interesting. Society Carol: Then she wasn't from a farming family?with
I: Yes. I mean, well. They were on a small place. Over there it was probably like in the Historical South. You lived on [a] small place of your own. And then there was a guy who own[ed] a big farm and they worked forinterview this man. You know what I mean. All these small farmers worked for this big farmer. So they got a percentage of what they worked. history Carol: So they had theirMinnesota own home, but not their own land as such? Oral I: Yes [they had their own homel [They did not have their own land] except a little bit.
Carol: So she had some farming experience too?
I: Right. But anyway, over in Denmark the gals were the ones. The men did the field work. But the women did the chores--all the milking, all the chores. That wasn't the
17 l,. men's work. Men's work was the work in the field. Although I'm sure the women did some of that too. I don't know, it seems like the women's work was a lot where the men
had certain things to do and that was it. [Laughs.] So when we came to this country,
why Dad, Mother did the milking to begin with. Dad finally how you know. And then
after we'd been there for a year--a little better than a year down in Rosendale--he had
gotten some old pieces of machinery and repaired it and fixed it and had gotten a little bit.
And then he rented this farm north of Grove City and they were there for fourteen years at
this place north of Grove City. Well actually they didn't get too far on that either because, like I said, if you start in the back you can't make too much headwayFrelander and that got to [be] very hard time with him. Part of it was during some of the Depression. Inger C: How long were you in Rosendale? Society with I: We lived there for about a year and a half and then we moved to north of Grove City.
And I started school in Rosendale in District 25. Historical
C: So did you spend Christmasinterview 1922 in Rosendale?
I: We were in historyRosendale in District 25. Because Dad took me to the Christmas program. They came and picked Minnesotaus up. We had [a] program in the evening and it was a bad night and allOral the snow. I thought the horses would drown. He drove, he didn't know his way around, you know, and they couldn't see fences or anything--they were covered with
snow. And the horses were in snow clear up over their rear part and kept on fighting
through that and they made it out we got into a bad place, but they made it out. Those
horses--Mike and Pat. I can remember that; Dad came to pick me up in the school that
night. All the farmers were there to pick up their kids, because they couldn't go home at
that time of the night. I also remember I wasn't used to snow like that. In the spring, that
18 was the second in 1921; '22 in the spring we were in still in Rosendale when it started to thaw. Snow melts on the bottom; the water is underneath all the snow is on top and I followed my road home, you know, and there was low lands and low roads and I walked the path I had used before you know and this particular day it had thawed a lot while we were in school and when I came to go home I fell through the snow. It didn't carry me any more and I went through and I felt water coming clear up to my knees. I thought I was going to drown for sure. Here I was out in nowhere, all this snow and there was water coming up to my knees under all this snow. And so I backtracked and tried to find another spot where I could hit some harder snow where it would carryFrelander me. But I remember that really scared me. But I made the first and second grade the first yearInger and the third and fourth grade the second year. After that I took one grade at time. Society with Carol: So your first and second year was in Rosendale?
Historical I: First and second summer actually was in Rosendale. Then in the fall we moved north of Grove City (October 1922).interview
C: What were [was] the acreage of the two farms you were at? historyMinnesota I: ThereOral was [were] 80 acres the first farm we were at. And the second farm was 120. The one north of Grove City was 120.
C: And you worked that with horses?
I: Right.
19 C: The language barrier.. ..
[Side two of side one--Iost some conversation regarding the confusion Inger Frelander experienced with words that sound alike, but mean something different.]
I: ... one was a man--Indian or Engine. Indian, one is a man and one is a motor, but which is which. [Laughter] And I didn't know him and her. I knew that Frelanderhim was--the girl and the boy--one was him, one was her, but I never knew which was which. [Laughter] I'd often say where they asked me where Fred was, "Her wentInger that-a-way." Something like that. [Laughs] And there was one other thing that I couldn't remember.Society Oh, dear--I knew there was a four legged deer and a two leggedwith dear, but I didn't know which was which; whether it was d-e-e-r for the two legged ones or d-e-a-r. I knew how they were spelled, but which one belonged to the man and which one belonged to the four legged Historical beast I didn't know. And I remember that first year in Grove City the kids always raked the lawn you know. I supposeinterview this must have gotten to be in '23 that we were raking the lawn up in District 62. And the teacher sent me home--I was so close by only had, up here I only had a fourthhistory of a mile to go. In Rosendale, I had three miles to go. Just a quarter of a mile up by Grove City.Minnesota Yea, north of Grove City. And I remember she sent me home to getOral a couple of matches, so we could bum the rubbish, you know. SO I went hove to ask for a couple of matches. And Mother gave, oh, I suppose four or five matches. "Oh,"
I says, "that's not enough. She said a couple and that must be a whole lots." So I got a whole fist full, [laughter] because Grandma [her mother] didn't know what a couple was.
C: Did you go to the same school that Gloria and De [her oldest two daughters] went to in District 627
20 (.." I: Yea. That's where I graduated from there in the eighth grade.
c: Did you go on after the eighth grade?
I: No, I didn't.
c: What year did you graduate from the eighth?
I: I suppose I still have my diploma in my little wooden suitcase. ByFrelander the way, that must have gotten banged up. Ausie [Gloria's husband Virgil] maybe you'll have to fix that for me someday. Oh, he's sleeping. But anyway, when didInger I graduate? ... Well, I went two years in the four grades and fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth. I wentSociety six years in all. I suppose the spring of '28 then I graduated. with
c: How old would you have been then? Historical
I: I was fifteen and a halfwheninterview I graduated, so that would have been '27. Because I
know most of the kids were only fourteen and I was a year and a half older than they
were, because I had to make those four grades up. historyMinnesota c: WereOral [you] in the fourth grade in Denmark?
I: Yes, I had started the third.
c: So, that's why you were able to do first and second grade over pretty quick?
21 I: Well, because, the language barrier was the only thing. I was tops in arithmetic. I mean I always had a good liking for that you know. But I still had to, it was reading and understanding. You see when I got the fifth grade there were a lot of history. That was hard for me, because I didn't know the history. I didn't know any American history. And
I didn't know the dates they were hard to remember. I remember that they put me into spelling-B's almost right away. And I remember the very first word that I went down on- and it was gnaw. How did I know that they put a "g" on that. [Laughter] N-a-w, no it's not g-n-a-w. And I didn't k-n-o-w. How are they going to put a "k" on the front of that you know. Of course Danes have some words like that. Frelander
Carol: Can you tell us about your mother and father at Ingerthis time? Were they learning English? Society with I: No, they weren't. Mother I guess, I would say almost all the years that she lived there-
I wonder if she was off the place ten or twelve times in all those years. Historical
Carol: In those fourteen years?interview
I: She was always home--always home. historyMinnesota Carol:Oral Did you have visitors?
I: A few. Once in a while. Once in a while a neighbor lady would come in a visit, but very seldom. And of course, the landlord--I was the "go between" with language. I had to translate the Danish into English, the English into Dane. I had no problem with that near as much as I do now. I can't translate it near as well now as I could at that time. I had no problem at all to translate any of it.
22 ~ Carol: And where was Fred?
I: Fred was working all the time. He was working on other farms. Yea, he wasn't home
much. When he was home, he ... wasn't home a whole lot, but when he was home we
always had a battle with him and I, because he always got by with this and that. I never
could get by with anything. I always [was] the one to go out [and] get the cows and bring
them home and start milking and he got to take off with a girlfriend or something.
[Referring to Fred] Whistling, walking off. Frelander C: How much older was he? Inger I: Five years. Yea, he was standing shaving once and I was toldSociety to go and [get] the cows and I told him that he could go and get them andwith he made some silly remark at me and I took a towel and I did this [makes snapping motion, as if snapping a towel] and I hit him
right in the eye with the corner of that towel, oh, and he chased me allover the place that Historical day, but he couldn't catch me. [Laughter] He didn't catch me. interview
Carol: So you lived through the Depression then on the 120 acres in Grove City? history I: Oh yea, well see partMinnesota of that, the Depression was part of the after Wally and I were married.Oral The Depression was in very bad at that time. You see, we didn't have anything to start with, Carol. It was pretty hard to get anywheres, you know. We just didn't get a
foothold. They didn't get a foot hold really.
Carol: 1936, then your mother and father were on that Rosendale farm and you were
married in 1932?
23 I: I was married in '32.
Carol: So they lived there for four years after you were married. And is that when they came to Litchfield?
I: They lived part of that with us. They lived a little while. Dad went to Denmark then once. Dad went to Denmark. And he wanted Mother to go along, but Mother wasn't about to go along, plus that they couldn't afford it. They dad sold all their property and Wally and I were married and lived on Grandpa Frelander's [Inger'sFrelander father-in-law] the first year. Then we moved up and we bought the stuff, all the property from Grandma and Grandpa [her rna and pa]. And we started farming alsoInger over our heads. And Gloria was born in Atwater. Grandpa [her father] went to Denmark. Society with Carol: Do you remember when your father went to Denmark?
I: ... That would have had to be in ... Oh, I doHistorical to remember. De was born when .. .in '35. It was before De was born thatinterview Grandpa [her father] went to Denmark. I was expecting De at the time and she was born when he came back.
She was a baby when he came back. historyMinnesota Carol:Oral Why did he go?
I: He wanted to go back. He wanted to stay there. And he had taken half of the money that they got for the sale and took his half and went to Denmark. Mother had half and he had half
Carol: From what sale?
24 I: The place north of Grove City. Mother had half and he had half.
Carol: Did they ever own the land?
I: No, just the machinery, cattle, whatever, that we bought. The landlord set us up and he paid them and then we owed the landlord. Wally and lowed the landlord for all the ... We didn't have money either.
Carol: Explain that transaction again please. Frelander
I: We didn't have any money at all. We got married andInger this was in hard time too; it was in '32. We lived down at Grandpa Frelander's for a while. ThenSociety we lived in Judson, Wisconsin for a while. That is when Daddy [Wally]with was earning $8 a week and I was getting my room and board for working there.
Historical Carol: You mean $8 a month? interview
I: Two dollars a week--$8 a month. Yea, $2 a week; $8 a month. Then I finally left down there andhistory left him there and I went south of Litchfield for the same amount of money ($2/week). ThatMinnesota didn't work so well either. You know that whole winter. So then he cameOral back in the spring and we went back to Grandpa Frelander's again to see how it would work out.
Carol: In the spring of. .. ?
I: The spring of '34. We left there before De was born.
25 Carol: Could you please re explain the transaction about buying the equipment and then owing the landlord?
I: Yes, they had an auction and we wanted to rent the place. The landlord had ... he was wealthy man and he was an awfully nice man--a good man. And he would help Grandpa and Grandma, although they kept on getting in deeper, because of the interest. They could barely meet the interest. We were almost in the same position. Although we managed to get--we lived there for, let's see now. Gloria was seven years old when we left there. So we lived there about six years, I suppose. In that lengthFrelander of time we had, well, we had a tornado hit us at one time. And we had that terrible November storm that hit us and killed all our turkeys. We had horses that diedInger one after the other, that we owed for. We owed the bank for horses that we didn't get paidSociety until after they were dead. We finally bought a new tractor--a Farm-all. Atwith least that wouldn't die on us. And ...
Gloria: Whose "we"? Historical
I: Daddy and I. And Gloriainterview started school up there then. Oh, I tell ya that old farm house was the coldest place I think there ever was on this earth. We had snow laying half ways in the kitchen historyfloor practically every morning in the winter time. Dad [Wally] would always be the one get upMinnesota and start the fire. It was awful. I don't know how I managed to keepOral Gloria and De from freezing to death. [Looking at Carol] You were born out on that farm too.
Carol: Could you please explain that transaction again.
26 I: He [the landlord] paid for it and owed him. The landlord paid [her father and mother] so they got their money and we owed him, because we couldn't pay them. We didn't get enough money. We started out with all of [my mom's and dad's equipment].
Carol: Back to Grandpa's trip.
I: Then he went to Denmark. And of course it wasn't long before he realized that, you know, he moved in with his family, but [stated with emphasis] moving in with your family after you've been gone then many years. Well it isn't just like that. It isn't like a child moving in with his a ... Frelander
Carol: He was 58 years old then. Inger Society I: Yes. And this was brothers and sisters and withthey had their own families and their own responsibilities. And by this time, Dad was without a country. His citizenship papers were gone over there--he wasn't a citizen of Denmark any more. He wasn't a citizen of Historical America either. interview
Carol: Why? history I: Because he never tookMinnesota his citizenship papers out. He didn't want to become an AmericanOral citizen. But America never let him down anyway. They helped him out. ..
Carol: Was he ever able to admit Denmark wasn't really what he remembered it to be?
I: No, I don't think so. Of course, you can't tell me either that, you know, Denmark to me is a wonderful little country, but America is my country. That's where I live and that's where my family is. That's my adopted country, but some of my roots are still back there
27 in Denmark. And I love that little Denmark. And I'll never get over it. I'm with Dad [her father] on that.. .. I will do everything I can as far as America is concerned, because that's my country.
Carol: Did your father ever talk about the political ways of Denmark as compared to the
American way?
I: Well, the system over there, now like the system is over there now. It was at that time was like that too--where the government. ... We had all our medicalFrelander expenses were paid. They took the taxes out of our money and, therefore, it is socialized. They didn't have to wony about doctoring or anything like that--that was paidInger by the government. Society Gloria: I didn't think it was like that then. with
I: Oh, yea. Historical
Carol: How did your father interviewfeel about this type of thing? Did he know about before he got here? history I: No, he didn't know ofMinnesota course any of this stuff And, see, Grandma [her mother] didn't wantOral to come to America; it was Dad that wanted to come, because this fellow had made such a rosey picture of America, you know, that there was no way that he wasn't going to take him up on that was the land of everything beautiful you know.
Gloria: He was deceived?
28 ~ I: Yea, he was very deceived. And I think that brought him down on America. That man
brought him down on America actually I think is what. ..
C: Do you remember his name?
I: Chris Christiansen.
Carol: Now you have said that your father would never carry arms for America. Would he have for Denmark? Frelander
I: Dad was a soldier in Denmark. But as far as carryingInger arms, I don't know. But he ran into King Christian once as a soldier in Denmark in the castle. Society[smiles] And he says he told me this often about he almost knocked Kingwith Christian over. [Laughs] King Christian, all he said was, "Hello soldier," in Dane of course, "Hey. Hey, soldier." And of
course he had to excuse himself fast you know and take off. But the king of Denmark and Historical his family were always very everyday people. Have I ever told you about the prince-
Prince Frederik that came afterinterview King Christian? They had a meeting at the castle, or you
know, like they do at the White House, you know, all the big [dignitaries] had to get together and theyhistory couldn't find the prince--the crowned prince--anywhere. Nowheres could they find the crownedMinnesota prince. He was like Prince Philip, no Prince Charles--the crownedOral prince of Denmark at the time Frederik was. They couldn't find him. They finally did locate him. You know where he was? He was helping a college friend of his
moving. [Laughter] This guy didn't have any money to move with and he was standing
up in the back of a truck helping load the furniture. When they finally found him, he was
supposed to [go] back at the meeting.
Carol: So he was a soldier; didn't he ever tell you once that he wouldn't carry arms.
29 I: He didn't want to carry arms. No, he would help he says, he would help, but he
wouldn't carry anns. He would help, but he wouldn't carry arms.
c: Here or there or anywhere?
I: Well, I guess here, because it was after he got here that he [became] so religious. He
was not that way in Denmark. I think after he got here, maybe with all the problems he
had maybe he looked towards the Bible. I don't know. Don't ask me. He had pages and pages of neatly written verses and passagesFrelander from the Bible that related to each others. You couldn't have asked Grandpa Frelander anything, I mean Jensen, anything in the Bible that he couldn't just open upInger and show you. You could ask him any[thing], he knew exactly where it was. He studied [onlySociety by himself]. But there was not a pastor in town that he had a discussionwith with. Every pastor in town he had ~ discussions with.
C: Did he have any fonnal education? Historical interview
I: No, no fonnal education.
You should see those pages were so neat. He never had anything raised. Never history anything crossed over. MinnesotaEverything was as neat as could be. Each page, on page, upon page,Oral upon page. Someday I'll show you. I didn't save hardly any of it. I saved a little bit, his writing and so on. So I could show you his writing sometime. And he'd talk Dane [to
the town ministers] and they couldn't understand a thing he was talking about. Many have
told me that they still found it interesting to talk with him, even though [they] couldn't
understand half of what he was talking about. But Grandma got to talk English fairly well,
even at that late date. She got to talking English pretty well.
30 Carol: Why didn't we learn any Dane [referring to why they--the children--did not learn
Dane]?
I: [Speaking to Gloria and Carol] I guess I brought you kids up the same way I was brought up--to not speak to adults, period; to be seen and not heard. But still is funny that you didn't pick up a few words here and there. Its really funny that you didn't pick up a few words. But you see your dad didn't pick up any Norwegian or Swede either and Pete and Grandpa [Wally's father] always spoke Norwegian down there ... After about six or seven years we left the farm and we wentFrelander to Litchfield and we lived there for a--Daddy [Wally], your grandpa [speaking to Chad] got ajob at Land 0' Lakes and then he finally went to the Cities [Minneapolis]Inger and he got [a job] on the streetcar. How was that? Yea, he worked on the streetcar. AndSociety then we went to the Cities and lived there. Gloria and De went to schoolwith down there for a little while. He was also a guard at New Brighton. He started out on the streetcar before we moved down there. Then he got a job at New Brighton. In the meantime Melvin went into the Historical [military] service and they wanted us to come back to the farm. I didn't want to. interview
C: Who's Melvin? history Carol: Melvin is a cousinMinnesota of Daddy's [Wally's], who was raised by Daddy's mother and father,Oral so he was more like a brother.
I: Now we had four kids now and there was Grandpa and Grandma Frelander [Wally's parents], Pete Frelander, and George. And I didn't want to go down there. I had four kids and there would have been four men, including your Dad [Wally]. I didn't want to.
But your Dad [Wally] says, "Maybe it will work out alright, maybe it will work out all
31 right." And I finally went. But I was balky as a mule. It lasted for a year and then we
parted unfriendly. And we were unfriendly for quite a while.
Carol: What year were you down there?
I: Let's see. Buddy [Inger's son] was just a baby. Buddy was born in '42. And we were there for about a year, O.K. Then we went to ... yes '43. And then we came to Litchfield, that's when he had a job. Frelander Carol: I thought you said Bud was born in Litchfield. Inger I: Yes, but he was born there before we went to the Cities. WhenSociety we went to the Cities he was six months old. I think we went there inwith February, I think. Carol: What was your address in New Brighton?
Historical I: 1857 E. 32nd St. interview
C: What was your address in Denmark? history I: 341eriskogade, [Kobenhavn,Minnesota Danmark]. That was my street address in Denmark. "G a-d-e"Oral [means] "street." Ndsal--that's second floor. N-d-s-a-I--same as second floor. Well anyway, where were we? Oh, we were back in Minneapolis. We were back
to Litchfield now. And then Papa [Wally] got hurt, that first year we were here. He got
at the highway department in the first part of the year.
C: What year?
32 I: [In 1942.] He worked and he was hurt the seventh day of December 1944.
C: The seventh day of December?
I: Pearl Harbor Day. Buddy was born in '42 in Litchfield and then he [Wally] went to
Minneapolis to find ajob. He had been working at Land 0' Lakes and then he went on the streetcar in Minneapolis. Then we had a cyclone [tornado] then while he was gone. He made it home one day [and] found all these trees along the road [and he] was wondering what was going [to] find when he got home--tornado. [Speaking toFrelander Carol and Gloria] All you kids were told to stay, because all those electric wires were down. Right. The wires were down. Carol was too little to go outside, we too haveInger to worry about her, but with [speaking to Gloria] you and De, I had to worry about not to goSociety outside, because all those electrical wires were down. with
C: What was your courtship [with] Papa [Wally]? Historical
I: [Laughs] Well, I tell ya. interviewI had a girlfriend in Litchfield. I worked for F.E. Anderson's down here [referring to Litchfield] doing housework. In the goody shop this girlfriend of mme. historyMinnesota Carol:Oral Where's "here"?
I: Oh, in Litchfield. Yea, that's right I'm in Minneapolis now. [Laughter] I worked for the F.E. Anderson in Litchfield and I had this friend ofmine--her dad owned the goody shop where Francine's were.
Gloria: What was your work?
33 I: I did housework. And Norma was the daughter of this fellow that owned the goody
shop and her and I became good friends. And so one day I was up there at the goody
shop and she said she'd met some terrific fellows from Atwater, so I should stick around
so I could meet them when they came. [Laughs]
C: What year was this?
I: Well, here this was .... Well, let's see, I went with Daddy [Wally] for a year and a half before we were married, so this would have been '32. So it must haveFrelander been about '30, I suppose. George Frelander and Wally Frelander and I thinkInger it was Ingan--one of the Ingan boys. Gus Ingan or was it.. .. Oh, it doesn't matter. There wereSociety three of them anyway. And so they were going to take me home wherewith I worked you know. And so Wally asked me for a date that night. The first night I met him. He asked me for a date already. And
[I] said, "Yea, yea, yea, that would be fine." That was on Saturday night or something. Historical And I was hoping desperately that after I got out of the car and went in I said, "Oh my
land. I've already got a dateinterview for that night. I hope Pat comes first." [Laughter] That's the
guy I got into the car thinking it was Pat that time when he stopped to pick me up, you know. And I thoughthistory it was Pat and I got into the car only to find out it was somebody else. Minnesota Oral Carol: Who came first?
I: Yes Daddy [Wally] came first. No this was another time. I was walking home from
uptown you know and this guy stopped by and wanted to pick me up--take me home.
[Laughter]
34 C: Just recently? [Laughter]
I: No, no, no. That was a long time ago. [Laughter] I had been going with Pat, you
know. And well, he looked a little bit like you [turning to Chad]. He [had] light hair, you
know. He was quite a heavy, you know a big fellow. And this guy I thought it was Pat. I
got in without looking. I says, "You're not Pat, let me out again." He started to drive
already. I said, "Stop. I can walk home." "No," he says, "[We] will take a trip out
around the lake." And then he says, "Where is it that you work?" And I told him. So he dropped me off there and he says, "See nothing happened." He says,Frelander "Can I see you again?" I says, "No you can't, you're a married man, I know who you are!" And I left. I just knew he was a married man. I just knew he .. .1 don'tInger know. Society C: Was he? with
I: I don't know. But I. .. He didn't say "no" either. So comes the night for my date and
Daddy [Wally] came first. And I was hopingHistorical Pat would come first. But Daddy came first.
And I never saw Pat after that.interview I never saw Pat.
Carol: Did you ever tell Daddy? historyMinnesota I: Sure.Oral I never saw Pat anymore. Then we started "to go steady." And, you know.
Carol: Right away?
I: Yea, it wasn't too long. And you know where he proposed. You know the bank
building in Atwater. [Laughs] We were sitting outside there talking and there is where he
proposed. [Laughs]
35 Carol: What did he say?
I: Oh, for heaven sakes. [Laughs] Do I have to go through that too?
C: All the gory details.
I: How did he say? I don't know what he said. I suppose he asked me ....
Carol: Did you talk about marriage before? Frelander
I: No, he just asked me ifI would marry him. Inger Society C: Did you tell him "yes" right away? with
I: Oh, yea, I guess I did. [Laughter] Historical
C: Please tell us about yourinterview first date.
I: Well, I don'thistory know. That was the night when Pat was supposed to come first. I can't remember how the weatherMinnesota was, [laughs] because I was so busy thinking about Pat ought to beOral here ...
Gloria: What season was it?
I: Oh, summer.
Carol: Oh when you started dating him.
36 I: Yea. It must have been in the spring, because we went for a year and a halfbefore we got married. We were married in October of'32. Gloria was born in '34 and De in '35.
His mother died in '29.
C: What did you do for dates?
I: Well I tell ya, he didn't have much money, so we didn't do too much. We went to [a] show once in a while. Frelander C: Did he drive a car? Inger I: Oh he had his dad's Pontiac. He had a Pontiac and you knowSociety how his dad got that Pontiac? The boys talked him into buying thatwith Pontiac. His dad was diddle daddling over that Pontiac. Oh where was it, Strom. No, Strong in Atwater. Strong's Motors. And
Strong's Motors wanted about 200 [dollars] more than what Grandpa was willing to pay.
Grandpa pays cash. He didn't want to that much.Historical interview
Carol: Was Grandpa Frelander the sheriff at this time? history I: No, no, no. He wasMinnesota on the farm--south of Grove City. So what did the boys do? They go andOral talk to the Strong Motor and they said they would pay him the 200 [dollars]. "Just let him think that he's getting it for the price that he wants." [Laughter] So he bought it for that and the boys paid for... [Laughs]
Carol: Vernie, George, and Daddy did this?
37 I: No, just George and Dad. Vernie was married and lived in Minneapolis. So Grandpa thought he got the car for what he wanted. He wasn't going to pay a cent more.
C: How old was Papa [Wally] when you guys got married?
I: He was 29 and I was 21. It was on my birthday [that] we got married.
C: Was that considered old for him? Frelander I: He as eight years older that I was. No, I don't know. No, no, no, not for men at that time, no. Inger Society C: And that was just about right for you? with
I: Yea. Right. Pretty much right. Historical
Carol: There was a big age interviewspace.
I: Yea, there washistory usually quite a big... Well now Gladdis and Bill got married the same time and there's also theMinnesota same age space there. Oral C: Why do you think that men waited until their late '20s?
I: Well, I don't know. They were feeling their oats I guess. [Laughs] I don't know. I tell you one thing. [Laughs] That the people out there, they didn't think George and Wally would ever get married you know. And when Wally got married they decided [he] had to get married or he'd never gotten married. And that made me madder than a hoot owl. I
38 was so mad. [Hits fist on the table.] And Florence [Wally's sister] says, "Well let him wait and see." Well it took a year and a halfbefore the first one come along before the first one came along. [Laughter] So I guess he shouldn't have to. It made me so mad. [Laughter]
Gloria didn't hear all that. She missed all that. [She had left the table for a time.] They never thought George and Wally would ever get married you know. I guess Ray Nelson was one of them you know. "Ah, George and Wally would never get married." And when Wally got married you know, they said, "He had to get married otherwise he never would never gotten married." And that made me madder than a hoot owl. [Laughter] And so I told Florence ... Frelander
Carol: So you waited two years before having a child? Inger Society I: No, a year and a half before De came along.with Then it was four years before she came along [points to Carol] and then three years before Buddy came along. [Speaking to
Carol] Do you remember Jerry Holmer, Lorraine Holmes, Lucille Holmes and all those? Historical You know they had ten kids. We only had the two. At that time they had five, I think-
Jerry and Nelly--had about fiveinterview of them. And Jerry came up once and he said, "Is that all you got--the two kids?" "Yea," I said, "ain't that enough?" "No," they had five or six already at that historytime you know. We just had the two. The next year, yea, about a year later we added Carol andMinnesota somebody came and said, "Are all these your kids?" I'll never forgetOral it. That was the funniest thing. We added one little girl to it. "All those kids yours?" [Laughs] You weren't very big either [looking at Carol]. That was funny. Well anyway, so much for that. Well anyway, I guess when let's see now. We came back.
Yea, Daddy [Wally] got hurt and then of course all the years I went to work and I worked all those many years you know. Daddy was laid up for five years. Almost in and out of the hospital continuously. And then he went back to work. He lost his leg. And then he
39 went back to work part-time, but ever so often he had to be laid up because of soars on the stump of his leg, you know. He couldn't handle it.
C: What did he do?
I: He worked on the highway--highway department. And at that time it isn't like now, you know, that the sand comes off the truck where that, you know, automatically. They
stood on the back of a truck. He had been down to the limb company once. And threw the sand out with a shovel. And as he came off the truck when theyFrelander got back to the highway department, he kind of stumbled and all of a sudden they realized he had been down to the limb company and they had forgotten to putInger the screw back in his foot. He could of fallen right off the truck at that time. Because the footSociety went off then into his shoe kind of slipped, it was still in his shoe, but the legwith wasn't close, you know it was wiggly. And had he lost his balance on the back of the truck he would [have] gone off the back of
the truck. They hadn't, they had forgotten to ... Just about like the time we went up to St. Historical Cloud when you [Carol] was at St. Cloud college you know. We went down and had the
oil changed on the car and theyinterview forgot to put [the]plug in! We were clear up around the
mile thing there when the car made the worst noise you ever ... We managed to get back to
town. historyMinnesota C: TheyOral forgot to put the plug in?
I: Yes, all the oil drained right out of the car. It's funny we didn't ruin. Well actually we
partially ruined it. But we got the oil put back in again and we proceeded up to St. Cloud.
But we used oil quite a bit for a long time after that until it got gooped in there you know,
so it got kind of..We used heavy oil you know.
40 c: When was it that Papa [Wally] worked for $1 a week and you worked for room and
board?
I: He worked for $2 a week at Hudson, Wisconsin. Farm work. He got up in the
morning about four or five o'clock in the morning and until ten o'clock at night.
C: Was this right after you got married?
I: About a year after. It was before Gloria was born. In fact it wasFrelander quite a while before, because I don't think we were even expecting her at that time. Inger C: So after you got married where did you live for the first year?Society with I: We lived down at Frelander's for a while, but then we became unfriends and took off.
We took off and went to Hudson, Wisconsin to work. And then I got a job back in
Litchfield and he stayed in Hudson, WisconsinHistorical and worked. And then we finally decided that we would swallow our prideinterview and go back and work for Grandpa [Frelander]. And
which we did, with the understanding instead ofjust working there for nothing, you know, he could have historya part share in the pigs he raised you know. And so Daddy [Wally] would get a share in some of theMinnesota crop. Otherwise, actually all we were getting probably, you know,Oral spending money when we went to town or something and here we had, you know, we were married and we felt we had to have a little bit more than that. Then Gloria was
born down there when we lived there. And of course, she was the pride and joy of
Grandpa. He loved his grandchildren anyway. No other child did but his own
grandchildren. When the boys would come out from Atwater you know. It was real
funny. When the home brothers, kids, would come out, you know, they were regular
41 rascals, you know. Wayne and Jimmy of course could do nothing wrong you know. They were the angels. When Gloria and De... [tape one ends]
[Tape two side one. Subject matter: De going to school.]
I: Because I remember Grandpa would be busy doing hay, you know, and I don't care what the weather looked like, boy when schoolFrelander was ready--was almost out--everything stopped they had to go get those girls. They couldn't walk home. No, they had to be picked up. Ah, it was the funniest thing.Inger Everything had to stop even though there was a big cloud over there and they had a big lad Societyover there maybe. Ugh uh, those girls had to be taken care offirst--the girlswith came first, oh yea. Yea, it was kind of cute.
Carol: You lived on the farm for awhile, thenHistorical Hudson, WI, then back to the farm and stayed until De was born? interview
I: Gloria was born there, De was born north of Grove City. historyMinnesota Carol:Oral How old was Gloria when you moved to Grove City?
I: Well, it was just shortly before De was born. I suppose it that face (1935). See, this is when Grandpa went to Denmark, then. Grandpa went to Denmark, then Grandma stayed with us then until Grandpa came back again. Then they went to work for a farmer south of Litchfield or south of Grove City. I lost something in the track. I can't for the life of me figure out.
42 Carol: How long were you on that farm by Grove City.
I: About six, seven years. Gloria was about seven when she came to Litchfield. Weren't you Gloria? Weren't you about seven?
Gloria: Yea, I started in third grade.
Carol: But where does Minneapolis fit into there? Frelander Gloria: Afterwards, when I was in fourth grade. In spring of fourth grade. Inger Carol: O.K. so now ... Society with I: Dh, now I remember. Oh, yea, we went to Minneapolis then. We were only in
Litchfield for a short time. Buddy was born in Litchfield. And we lived here, but Daddy Historical went to Minneapolis to work. We moved just before Buddy was born. You had your )'-1 birthday there. [Referring tointerview Gloria's birthday March 29, 19%] We moved there in '42 because she had her birthday there and Buddy wasn't born until May, '42. Gloria: What time of year did we live by Land O'Lakes because I had my birthday there. historyMinnesota I: February,Oral we moved there in February [of'42]. Right. Then we moved over to that house, that house where Bud was born until he was about, oh I suppose, he was born in
May, until about, ah, February of the next year, January or February. Then we moved to
Minneapolis. Yes, you had Valentine down there.
Carol: That's when Daddy was on the streetcar?
43 I: No, no, he was at New Brighten then. He started with the streetcar but when we moved down there, he had switched and was over at New Brighten. He had applied. He wasn't on the streetcar very long. He was on the streetcar before '42 because he was down there. He drove back and forth for a long time.
Gloria: Who did he stay with when he lived down there?
I: He stayed down at Charlie's. He stayed with Charlie part of the time. We were not there. We were in Litchfield [Mom was replying to me wonderingFrelander where we were.] He drove back and forth. He stayed down there for a week and then he'd come home on week ends. He'd stay with Charlie Frelander, his uncle. Inger[There is a section when Gloria wants to go back to when Grandma and Grandpa Jensen movedSociety to Rosendale. Mom said in October, 1922 (almost right away) and thenwith to E.B. Starrets.] We moved and was there all of that first winter and then all summer and then the next winter and then the next summer and then we moved north of Grove City in October.
[Back to Minneapolis.] Historical interview
Carol: Then how long were you in Minneapolis when Daddy worked for military? history I: We were only there Minnesotafor, I think we were only there--good grief, I think only 2-3 months.Oral Then we went to Atwater because Wally [Ausie asks questions about where Grandma and Grandpa Jensen lived and who was where first and Gloria tells him that
Grandma went to school there too.] they lived there for fourteen years, Grandma and
Grandpa did [Jensen].
Gloria: I didn't realize you went to school where De and I did.
44 (..., I: I graduated from there. I went to school at district 62.
Gloria: That's the only school you went to.
I: No, I went to district 25 when I first came. It was district 25 for about a year and a
half
Carol: Now how long were you on the farm at Atwater? Frelander I: We were there for a year exactly a year. Then it blew up again. This time it blew up for good. Inger Society Carol: So this is probably the summer of '44. with
I: Yea. Historical
Carol: And then you went where?interview
I: We went tohistory Litchfield. That's where we brought the old house. See Dad had gotten... then Grandpa stayedMinnesota with his word and said that Dad was going to get of the hogs so weOral got a thousand dollars for those hogs and we promptly put that $1000 on that house. So Dad got a job right away.
Carol: At Land O'Lakes and you lived in our old house from 1944 until.
I: I moved when Daddy died, after Daddy died thirty years. Didn't we live in that house
for thirty years? That old house?
45 !
Carol: Do you know what year he started at the highway department?
I: Yea, yea, he got hurt in '44 so he started in the spring of ah, of ah, of ah, '44 or the
summer of '44. He hadn't worked there very long. He just worked there a short time
before he got hurt. Yea, he hadn't been working there very long. And actually, and
actually the funny part but he'd been laid off because he was one of the new ones. He'd
been laid off and was called back to work I think two or three days before he got hurt.
He'd just been called back to work when he got hurt. Frelander C: He was a flagman, right? Inger I: No, no, no, no he was not flagging. The flagman tried to stopSociety the man who ran him down. with
Carol: But I always thought he was flagging on the other end. [Gloria affirms this.] Historical
I: No, no. After he was hurtinterview and went back to the job he got the job as flagman there for
awhile. history Gloria: Well, what wasMinnesota he doing? Oral I: He was seaming the center line when he got hurt. Him and the guy from DasseL.what
was his name? Oh gosh, I can't remember his name. He was on this side, his own side.
They were seaming that middle section on the highway and this guy was coming from this
direction, supposed to be on this side [she is showing with hands on table] instead of that,
he crossed over here and the guy that was here saw him just in time and stepped back, but
Daddy never saw him. He threw him forty feet across the highway and slammed him into
46 f
<..,. the cement. They thought he was killed out right. They could see the tar barrel under him. They said he threw him forty feet across and the flagman back here threw the flag at
the man who was driving the car and it hit his windshield and the guy still kept going and
then he hit Daddy and threw him so the flagman saw the tar barrel under him so he flew
into the air. And he landed [Carol asks if that's when he got the cut on his head] well on
the whole side. His leg was crushed. He landed right on the pavement. He was flagman
after he went back because he couldn't do any job. He couldn't do too much so they let
him go back, so he could just be a flagman. After he was back on the job after those five years when he couldn't handle any other job they let him come backFrelander to be part time flagman. Inger Carol: I thought he was out of work six years. Society with I: Well, he was out of work, huh, a lot more than that, but he was out of work a straight
five years. His compensation lasted for five years and after that then he got, then he Historical wasn't getting his job back, you know, he was just, they were just putting him on there and
then they were going to lay himinterview off because he wasn't able. He was partially disabled and
that when I wrote a letter to them and at that time they were taking people from Europe over here--settinghistory them up in a home and jobs and everything and I wrote to them and I says what do you wantMinnesota him to do? Do you want him to see if we can get over to Europe? MaybeOral they'll set us up with a job. I think you should take care of your people at home here first. He's an American citizen. He was born here. And I said he was hurt on the
job. I says, what do you want him to do?
Carol: Who did you write to?
I: I wrote to the main one in Willmar at that time ...
47 Gloria: You should have written to the government.
I: ... and I said what do you want him to do? I says he had got a family here, was hurt on the job, no fault of his own and I said he's been getting little enough as it is. He's been living actually with nothing and I says we've managed and I says then to be told that he's going to be laid off because he's disabled. I says he's been doing his job, all he's asking, he's not asking for anything except his job. The least you can do is give him his job and let him have it. So he called back to his work and the guy was there fromFrelander Willmar and he said I want you to go home and tell your wife that we're not all as hard hearted as she seems to think. At that spot he was given not only his jobInger but all the benefits of his job. He was getting--before that he had nothing and he wasn't goingSociety to get anything--no leave of absence, no sick leave, no vacation pay, no withnothing. After that, he got all of it--the whole works. [Then he ended up always having to use his sick leave and vacation], but at least he had it. For four months out of the next few years we didn't have any salary except what I brought in and I brought in about $40.00Historical a month. interview
Carol: And during the five years Daddy was laid up, you only got $20.00 a week workmen's compensation for six people. historyMinnesota I: $20.00Oral a week workman's compensation is all he got and I had my $40.00.
C: Do you think times were hard for you during that time or during the Depression?
I: We had depression all that time. See it was depression for us continuously. It wasn't depression only when it was depression for everybody. It stayed depression for us.
C: And was in the '20s for you guys too when you first got here?
48 I
I: Continuously, yes. Yes, it was then too. We had depression from the time we came to
this country, practically ...
C: For those five years, you worked split shifts because you couldn't afford a baby sitter
[the children were aged 2,5,9, and 10 when Wally was hurt]. Was your combined
income during those five years your income was $120.00 a month for six people.
I: For a long time, right. And we paid so much a month for our house--[$25.00Frelander a month].
C: Workman's compensation went up each year. Did itInger goes up for people hurt in previous years? Society with I: Never, they wouldn't do that [text unclear during this statement].
C: What ever happened to the guy that hit him?Historical interview
I: He died and you know I heard years and years later, I heard from his sister-in-law that
they thought they couldn't find his money--he was a very wealthy man. [He lived for many history years after hitting WallyMinnesota and died as an old man.] I bet you to this day it is buried out on his farmOral in tin cans.
C [verify]: Didn't they find some in his mattresses?
I: Ob, no. Not that I ever heard.
C: Did you know him before?
49 I: No, but she told me they thought we had gotten it. I says, "Oh boy, here our kids got along with nothing, with practically nothing to eat." I says, "I'd set out sandwiches for them before I'd go to work." I says, "that's your supper. That's all you get. There's a glass of milk. Now if one of you can't eat all of it, then let somebody else finish it.
Carol: [Turning towards Chad and speaking of Inger] When Grandma would go grocery shopping, our treat was a half of banana. Frelander I: And I went shopping for the month. [Gloria laughed recalling eating the inside of skin.] Inger C: Were you guys like the poorest in Litchfield? Society with Gloria: [Laughing] Probably.
Historical I: We never asked for any help. interview
Gloria: You know what our sandwiches were? They were catsup or mayonnaise. history I: You know what elseMinnesota you had? Syrup and bread and butter or brown sugar. [Text becomesOral unclear --laughter]
Carol [verify]: Were [we] the poorest in Litchfield?
I: I don't know. I suppose.
50 [Gloria and Carol comment on how we never thought of themselves as poor because their parents gave us so much love. Nonetheless, thinking back they decided that they must have been. ----Get text]
I: We made payments on our house--$25.00 a month.
C: Today people borrow for everything. Back then did people not borrow for anything but a house? Frelander I: Mainly, I guess so but we had ... Sam Peterson was our grocery man and I could charge there and I finally did. You know it got so you wantedInger to charge but he said don't ever worry about it, don't ever worry about it. Our shoe man was Sandgren'S.Society Mrs. Sandgren used to call me. "Inger, we've got a sale coming.with Bring the kids in and I'll fit them and you pay for them whatever you want, whenever you can and I know exactly what kind of shoes they would fit. The[y] all have narrow feet and I know I've got shoes I can outfit Historical them. Send them all four over and I'll fit them and you pay $1.00 a week or $2.00 a week, interview whatever you can pay. II And they were always paid from the one and that went for the dentist. [Uncertain of meaning of the previous statement.] For the year round the kids went like this historyyou know and he just charged it and I'd pay so much and it went round, and round, and round, and Minnesotaround. When Daddy [Wally] died I had about $1000.00 that I still owedOral up at the clinic and that finally got paid. Yah! But I mean nobody ever pressured us. [Gloria and Carol comment--"We never thought of ourselves as being poor. "]
I: No, I could sew for them. I'd sew for them.
[Gloria and Carol comments on two families which they felt were poor but they couldn't really establish whether they were poorer or just so unkempt. Inger had always kept her children clean.]
51 I: They just lived in a mess all the time and the kids had lice and everything.
[Gloria and Carol comment that as they grew up it was those families that they thought of as poor.]
I: Daddy [Wally] worked whenever he was able. I finally when he got his, sure there were about four months out of those several years that he didn't have any pay whatever, no vacation, no sick leave, no nothing, but other then that, when he'd have vacation, he'd use it all for sick, for sick pay. It was all used for that, but he wasFrelander always thankful he had that to fall back on. Inger Carol: Why didn't he get workman's compo for those four monthsSociety because it was directly related to that accident? with
I: Yes, but I guess it had to go through a whole lot of rigi-a-maroll and we never wanted Historical to go through all that. interview
Carol: Plus you had make a settlement rather than suing. history I: Oh, sure. The attorneyMinnesota took more than we got--the attorney got more than we did. He wantedOral it settled.
Gloria: I saw a piece of paper and it told what they got and what the lawyer got.
I: Yah, he got about $2300.00 and we got $2200.00. And then out of $2200.00 we had to pay back the hospital and the doctor there wasn't anything left.
52 <.." Carol: Who was the attorney?
Gloria: Tom Welch from Buffalo.
I: We got talked into that because he said if the man dies you won't get anything. We
didn't know, so we just settled out of court and here his leg wasn't healed or anything. At
first it was screwed together. Oh first it was wired together and that didn't hold. Then it
was screwed together and it didn't hold. It would bend in the middle, right in the middle of the leg. Frelander
Carol: [After Ozzie made a comment I'm not sure of] IngerWas he insured? Society I: He was insured for $8000.00 and they got thewith entire $8000.00.
Carol: Who got the $8000.00? Historical
I: The state and the--we gotinterview $2200.00 of it.
Gloria: Why the state? historyMinnesota I: Well,Oral the state got most of our money ...
Carol: The state got it all but the $2300.00 that the attorney got is what it boils down to.
I: Yes, in fact. No, not quite because when we got that we took $1000.00 (we still owed
a $1000.00 on the house) and we paid the house up. So we got that out of it.
53 C: What did you pay for the house?
I: What did we pay for the house? $2100.00 at that time.
C: $2100.00 for that huge house? Man I could almost buy one! [Laughter]
I: Liste~ if we'd have bought it the year before, we could have gotten it for $1100.00. It went up. It doubled in that one year. Ifwe'd bought it the year before we'd have gotten it for $1100.00. That's what Alfred Nelson got his house for--much Frelanderbetter one than ours. Well, anyway, I went back to Denmark three times then. Inger C: When was your first trip? Society with I: My first trip was in '67. And the kids all helped me, otherwise I would never have gotten there. They all helped. Historical
C: Did Papa [Wally] go? interview
I: He stayed [withhistory Gloria and Ozzie]. He said, first of all, he couldn't understand any and the~ ah, he wasn't feelingMinnesota that good. But he was sure that we wouldn't see each others again,Oral you know. So we our and had our picture taken. I guess he was ...
Carol: Are you serious?
I: Yea, no, yea, yea, no. That's what he thought ... He wanted that picture taken. He was sure that he would never see me again. He was sure he would die before I got back. He had had kind of a little heart attack.
54 Carol: [Facing Gloria] Was he depressed while [he] stayed at your place?
Gloria: I didn't realize that.
I: Daddy [Wally]--he wouldn't show it anyway. He wouldn't show it anyway.
Gloria: I remember thinking it was so nice having him here. He was really ... so easy to get along with and everything ... Frelander
C: [Conversation moved to Carol's bad back]. .. Inger Society I: Yea, I told Richard, I says, "Well you bring withme within a couple blocks of where I used c;..., to lived and I'll find it. That was 45 years later. When I first came over there I told them, I says ... I had Dane all figured out. I was going to up to them and all I could say was "hi" Historical when I first saw them. And then after I had been there for three days I says, "Don't say
anything about me, I can understandinterview everything you say." He laughed about that. That
was funny. Then I told him about the elephants out by this park where I used to play--45 years since thathistory time. And he says, "Ob, that's just your childish fantasy," he says. "There's no elephants ourMinnesota there." I says, "You take me within two blocks of my home and I'll findOral it." And I says, "I'll find the elephants and I'll show them to you." And I found my home--34 [in Dane] leriskogade--that's right. I found the elephants. I used to play on the,
on the ...
Carol: How far was the elephants from your home?
I: Ob, I'd say about two blocks. I'd say about two blocks. They're still there. And he
55 \..., says he'd lived there his whole life and didn't know those elephants were there. He
really ... He says, "That is absolutely something! You had to come back home here and tell
us where those elephants were." "Well," I says, "I knew they were there." I says, "I knew
it. "
And we had streetcars over there too when I was a kid that were double, you
know, and triple. I always made Mother go way up on the top. [Laughter] Poor Mother.
I always made her go way up to the top. I thought that was terrific. Then we had the
round tower, you know, that would go round, round, round. When you got up on top people looked like flies down below you know. Well when I was backFrelander there even at that time I was only a little older than what Gloria is now. Actually I was 56 years old when I was over there that first time. And, ah, is that right--'67--yea.Inger Right, 56. Society Gloria: You weren't quite 56--it was summer. with
I: Right. And you know I couldn't get half ways up there. That's how hard it was to get Historical up there. That was like this. [holds her hand at a steep angle] The round tower the [Dane
name]. .. oh yes and then we didinterview go sailing down on a boat, you know, by the, ah, the river
goes right in through Copenhagen. You know, just see all the sights you know. There was a guide therehistory that spoke German and English and Dane. So that everybody'd be able to understand. And thenMinnesota we'd take pictures, you know. Well, you know, I started to standOral up to take a picture of a spiral you know. And somebody said, "You better sit down--we're running right underneath [a bridge]." If! hadn't sat down it would have
knocked my head off [Laughs] We were so low under there. That bridge was just like
that [holding up her hand to show its shallow height]. If! would have stood up it take my
right off . .! got down in a hurry! [Laughter] Oh, boy.
Carol: Then when was your next trip to [Denmark]?
56 I: In '77. And then in '82.
Carol: ... Which was my favorite president?
I: Which was my favorite? .. .I guess I'll have to say Franklin D. Roosevelt.
Carol: That was my second choice. Frelander I: What was the first one? Carol: I thought she was going to say Abraham Lincoln.Inger [Laughs] Society I: So well, see I didn't know him. I didn't knowwith him. Lincoln was a good president. [Nixon came up in the conversation] I wouldn't say Nixon, not after what he pulled. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The man may be O.K. I'm afraid that ifwe had done what Nixon did Historical we'd have been sitting behind rotting and he's been living like a king. I can't put with that.
I can't put up with things likeinterview that.
Gloria: Who's been living like a king? historyMinnesota I: I said,Oral ah, when people do things that we would be rotting in jail for and then they live like kings on our tax money--I can't put up with things like that. My tax money probably don't go too much for much of his income. I know its close to nothing actually now. But
I can't put up with things like that. He otherwise, he might be a very good man. I'd probably like real well if I got to know well, or something.
57 Carol: [Edited] Richard Nixon is the only one who was declined body guards for himself or his family members, because he doesn't want to spend the tax payers money. They all have body guards--Carter, Ford, ...
I: Johnson is dead isn't he?
Carol: Yea, but Lady Bird had body guards. They all have body guards.
I: Oh, Lady Bird is still alive. But they live pretty high ofIt] the hog.Frelander
Carol: He didn't commit the crime. He was part of theInger "cover-up." Society I: He's part of the cover-up, yea. Of course, ah,with we all ...
Carol: He resigned before he was impeached. Had he been impeached he wouldn't Historical getting ... I suppose. interview
C: He would have been convicted. history I: Well maybe he knewMinnesota that. Maybe he knew that. Maybe that's why he did. Sure that's why Oralhe resigned.
C: On his behalf he wasn't cheating the taxpayers--he was cheating the government. But the money that he did take that was wrong was for campaign purposes. I mean he didn't pocket nothing--it was for his campaign.
Carol: She's referring to the money he's still getting. Aren't you?
58 I: Yes, I'm referring ... that...Notjust him, Chad. Don't get me wrong. All those guys ...
C: He doesn't get a pension does he?
I: Dh does he! Are you kidding!? Are you kidding!?
C: I think by resigning he lost his pension. Frelander I: Dh, no he didn't. He gets a good pension. Definitely. He's living fine. But that's with all of them. Inger Society C: He writes books and stuff. I'm, he's got anwith income.
I: Sure. I mean that's all of them. Their all living a fine life. Gee, they could have saved Historical their money when they were there. They don't have to live otT them afterwards. [Laughs]
They don't any of them haveinterview to live otT of [us].
Carol: Most all jobs have a very good retirement. historyMinnesota I: Well,Oral I suppose. It's a retirement. I suppose so. But the retirement of the average man.
Carol: Actually when you think of the salaries in this country--athletes, actors.
I: Dh I know--that's ridiculous. Yes. Ball players.
59 ~ Carol: When you think of the number one head person of our government--they don't get paid hardly anything.
I: That's true. Oh that's very true.
C: Most guys that become presidents--its a losing money proposition.
I: Ball players. I can't imagine the ball players, the money they make. For running around a field after a ball. Frelander
C: Look at Carter how old he looked when he finished Ingerhis term. Society I: You know actually Reagan has aged. He haswith aged terrible. I think he's aged awful. ~ He's still a nice looking man, but oh my land he's aged. Historical Carol: He's slipping a little bit. interview
C: Oh his last press conference over Iran. [Conversation continues] history C: You the RepublicansMinnesota are going to be pushing if they are going to be wanting Bush. TheyOral are going to be pushing for him to resign, you know, six months left in it.
I: Yea. Right.
C: So he'll be president with that much better a chance of winning the election.
[Conversation gets going on Reagan to resign.]
60 I: Anybody can resign. Anybody can resign.
C: He'd be running as president and have a real advantage.
I: Gloria, if he was sick, you know, he would have to resign or do something.
C: See might have to anyway.
I: I mean if he sick there would be no choice. Frelander Thomas [Carol's husband] Wasn't Truman's family poor after he left the White House? Inger C: He probably needed it [the pension]. His wife was rich, butSociety he wasn't. Thomas: Wasn't he a teacher? with
C: No, he only finished the eighth grade ... Or maybe it was that he never went to college. Historical [Conversation turns to Truman's education.] And he was the most historically knowledgeable president ever.interview
I: He was knowledgeable. Yea. historyMinnesota C: HeOral read.
I: Oh did he ever. Yes. He educated himself Right.
C: I'm pretty sure he only finished the eighth grade. [In fact, however, he did finish high school, but never went to college.]
61 I: My word, is that possible?
C: If I'm wrong he just finished high school.
I: You're kidding.
C: Which is still unreal. Not to say that anybody who didn't is mentally inferior.
I: That's unreal. [Conversation continues on Truman's education.]Frelander
C: The connections you make. Nixon went to Yale--allInger the connections you get. Society I: Yea. with
C: Do you remember the Pendergrast "machine" in Kansas City? Historical
I: No. interview
C: You knowhistory Daley--the "boss" in Chicago? That's how he [Truman] got started in politics, through Pendergrast.Minnesota He had to talk that down when he went national. Oral Carol: [Carol looked up Truman in the encyclopedia.] In World War I he was an officer.
[Carol highlights he had read by the time he was thirteen all the books in the
Independence, Missouri library and his family Bible three times!]
I: You're kidding. [Laughs]
62 C: Have you ever been to a president's library?
I: What?
C: Have you ever been to a president's library?
I: Oh, of course not. How would I ever do that?
C: No they're just around. There's one in Iowa. Eisenhower's andFrelander Truman's are in Kansas. They put them by their birthplace. So his [Truman's] is in Independence, Missouri, which is 45 minutes from where I go to school.Inger It's pretty neat. [Carol continues reciting the encyclopedia on Truman.] Society with C: Why was FDR your favorite president?
Historical I: What? interview
C: Why was FDR your favorite president? history I: I think he did a lot forMinnesota the people. Yea, I think he really did. Both him and his wife wereOral very kind people. And I think they did an awful lot. Actually I think he did lot for this country. I think he did a lot for the people. To get the country in shape again. It was really getting bad off.
C: He was optimistic when everyone else was pessimistic.
I: Yea! No, he was a wonderful man. He was crippled too. You know. He was an
63 invalid. And both him and his wife were just terrific people. I think. I guess I have to say
it that way. He was urn ... [Conversation turns to Truman's education--the encyclopedia
stated he went to elementary and high school in Independence, Missouri.]
Carol: [Referring to Truman] He was born in 1884.
C: So it wouldn't have been uncommon at all for farmer to have just finished the eighth
grade. Frelander I: So that's 102 years old. Inger Carol: He was 61 when he became president. Society with c.." I: Isn't Reagan the oldest president we ever had? And isn't John F. Kennedy about the youngest we ever had? Historical
C: He is the youngest. interview
I: I did like himhistory too. [Conversation turns to age of presidents and Chad's supposed knowledge of history.] Minnesota Oral I: He's got a good memory [referring to Chad].
C: But I can't remember anything that happened yesterday. [Laughter]
I: No, I can't either. I can remember what happened way back ...
By the way, they shot a whale up by Norway when we came over here.
64 C: Oh, you saw him.
I: I didn't see any, but a lot of people did see it--that whale they shot up by Norway--a whale. [Conversation turns towards Carol's sore back. Gloria takes out pictures of her trip to Denmark and has a picture of the castle that Grandma Jensen worked in.]
I: Malipu. Frelander Gloria: Did Grandma [Jensen] work as a maid at that house or a cook? Inger I: Maid. Society with Gloria: And what did the sister work at?
Historical I: Maybe she worked as a cook. Maybe one worked as one ... [Conversation turns to getting pictures to add to thisinterview paper.]
I: I have a picture of mother and Dad and Fred and I when we were out at that place. historyMinnesota Carol:Oral Do you have extras?
I: No, but we could get some.
C: Could you tell us some of your memories ofjust coming here--New York harbor, Ellis
Island, and your experience of going through the immigration stuff
65 I: Exciting. It wasn't terrifying as far as I can remember. It was ... everything was a new experience. But the most thrilling was when we saw the Statue of Liberty and when they started playing the "Star Spangled Banner." That was always became my favorite song.
And it was just a big thrill, you know. Of course. I had none of the responsibilities of anything, you know. I just had fun [with] everything. I didn't have any responsibilities of anything. But I'm sure for Mother and Dad it wasn't, you know. Especially when they got here then and the little money they had and no security whatsoever. They had nothing.
Bad news, you know. And they had to make it go. They had to make it go. [Carol and Gloria are talking about pictures--comes to Grandma Jensen'sFrelander sister--Tante]
I: Tante worked there! Tante and ... Inger Society Gloria: There was another sister. .. with
I: Well I don't think Marie ever worked there. Did Marie work there too? That's the only Historical other sister they had. interview
Carol: I didn't know she had a sister Marie. history I: Marie is an outcast. MinnesotaMarie is the outcast. [Conversation turns to why she was an outcast--romanticOral affairs.] She was involved with more than one. I never heard all the details, but they never talked about Marie. But her kids wanted to get in touch with rest of the family. They wanted to stay with the rest of the family.
Gloria: She got pregnant and a little child. And the man didn't want ...
66 l, [Tape two, side two]
[I:] ... gave them some land or some money and set them up. It's like the family would
have nothing with her at all. It was just like complete ... And they didn't want anything to
do with her child either.
I: Now Inger [her cousin] never told me anything about that, but 1 can remember going to Mustamuli. We called her Musti, moti. Not tante. We called her FrelanderMusta.
Carol: Meaning? Inger Society I: Mother's sister. Mother's--musta. with
C: But not aunt? Historical
I: But not aunt. It was musta.interview
C: Wasn't she given the privilege of the title? historyMinnesota I: WellOral ...
Gloria: 1 don't remember anybody getting in touch with her. It was like they didn't want
anything to do with her.
I: After what time?
67 l,. Gloria: I don't know. But it was like Inger or Borge was saying like that this--the child of this lady wanted to be in contact with them, but like they didn't want anything to do with
him.
I: I know Borge gave me an insight on that, you know. Because I asked Borge right
about Musta Marie. "Where is she?" "Well," he says, "we never talk about her." And
said, "Why?" And then he told me a little bit about it.
Carol: So even today they don't know anything about that side ofFrelander the family?
I: Not much, but one of the boys wants to keep in touchInger all the time. They want to keep in touch, you know. But I do know. Marie had two or three kidsSociety at the time when Dad, Mother, and I were there. And we stayed therewith at her house, then. I remember going out in the back. ..
Historical Gloria: She was younger then? interview
I: Oh she had two or three kids. She had two-three kids then. Sure, kids the same age as I was. Sure andhistory we stayed there. See I didn't know Marie before that, you know. And that's the only time I everMinnesota remember staying there with her. I never remember much conversationOral about Marie. But Mother always wondered "why didn't somebody?" You know. She never got any letters of Marie. And she never heard from Marie. And nobody
never told her anything about Marie after we came over here ... [edited] She was an
outcast sort of She was an outcast. [Conversation turns to Inger's niece--Karen--her
brother Fred's daughter, who married an Afro-American man and was outcast until after
Fred's death. Karen's mother wouldn't have anything to do with here, but Fred did. Fred's
68 l, death brought them closer together. Karen's first husband went to prison. She was divorced.]
C: They're still married [referring to the second husband]?
I: To the black man.
Carol: Oh, they have a good a marriage by all the reports we get. Frelander I: Oh, and he's such a good man, I guess. [Conversation turns to a man, who happened to be black who needed a heart transplant, but refused theInger needed welfare to get it, because it was against his principles and died.] Society I: Well anyway, I don't know whatever happenedwith to Marie--where she's at. But, ah, l, no ... Well, of course, you know, right now its not near as much of a disgrace anymore. No matter what they do. But at that time it was a black ... Historical
Carol: It was a scandal probablyinterview because she was a commoner and he was not.
I: Well, that was the biggest scandal, I suppose. historyMinnesota Gloria:Oral That's probably why they had to arrange the marriage of the footman.
Carol: What was Grandma's [Jensen] job at the castle?
I: I think she was a maid. I don't know. One was a cook and one was a maid. I don't
know. But mother was a good cook. So I don't know. So maybe it could have been ...
69 Carol: And that castle is still there?
I: Oh yes. That castle is still ... [edited] We went over there a couple times when Borge took us over there--Borge and Ruth. They took us over there. [Conversation turns to keeping track of pictures of trips--abroad.]
I: Remember, yea. [Otherwise] you don't remember. You think you're going to remember, but you can't...You think you remember, but you can't. [Turning towards Chad] You think you can make anything out of this? Frelander
C: Oh, sure. Inger Society I: You think you can? Good enough. with
C: Can you think of any other stories that you used to talk about? Historical
Carol: Grandpa Jensen was interviewpretty tough on you. He treated you kind oflike a boy.
I: Well, I. Oh,history yea, he was hard on me. That's where I got my bad back. That was Grandpa Jensen's [her father]Minnesota fault. I know he worked me like a horse. He could work so hard Oralhimself, he would expect me to the same thing. At...oh. And Mother used to get after him, saying that there's. "Well there's no reason why she can't work like Fred can.
There's no reason ... " "Well she's five years younger for one thing, and she's a girl for another thing," she'd say. But, ah, "Oh," he said, "all I need to do is get her mad and she'd work like a horse." He'd get me mad! And boy could I work!
Carol: It was kind of interesting how you learned to play the harmonica.
70 I: Dh, yea, I can play the harmonica. And then I remember once, you know ...
Carol: How did you learn how to play the harmonica?
I: Dh, ha, ha, ha. I sat out behind the bam. Fred went to Litchfield--that far away place.
I couldn't imagine. That must have been something like Germany or something. There must be wild animals in the place. [Laughter] But he moved to Litchfield. He brought back this harmonica for me. Mother went to Litchfield with Jensens one too when we were out there. She bought me some valentines. Those first ValentinesFrelander I ever had. Dh they were pretty. She brought them home for me. That was the first time and only time she was there--ever off the place out there. [Laughs] SheInger went with Jensens to Litchfield. Society Gloria: What Jensens were these? with
I: Alan Jensen. Historical
Gloria: Christiansen? interview
I: No, no. Alan Jensens. historyMinnesota C: AnyOral relation?
I: No relation. There's lots of Jensens--Hans Jensen, no relation; Chris Jensen, no relation;
Martin Jensen, no relation. All the Jensens, there's so many Jensens.
Gloria: None are related from Denmark?
71 I: No. And our T.V guy was Jensen ... Oh what was his first name? I can't remember.
His name was Jensen--no relation. None of them were related to each others either.
Carol: Tell us more about Grandpa Jensen's handiness please.
I: He could do a lot of things. He'd go fishing all the time. And he built his own boat too.
Gloria: He picked up things. Frelander
I: Well, yea. And then he made his own sinkers for hisInger fishing. You know. He made it out of those little lipstick cases [laughter], you know. He filledSociety them ... with C: What did he fill them with? Just sand?
I: No, something hard, you know, that wouldHistorical be heavy. interview
Carol: He made his own fishing rods too. history I: Yes. Minnesota Oral Gloria: And Grandma [Jensen] crocheted constantly.
I: Oh, yea. She crocheted mittens for all of you when you were small. She knit mittens for you.
C: When did they die?
72 I: They both died in '56. Dad died at Easter time and Mother died right after Christmas- was buried the day before the New Year.
Gloria: And they lived at the little house right on the edge of the downtown in Litchfield and they had band concert every Wednesday night and we'd go over and sit and listen to the band concert.
C: When did they move there? Frelander
Gloria: From Grove City maybe. Inger Society I: They lived there. No, after they worked onwith that south--that farm south of town then they moved in there. They lived on several places in Litchfield before they ... yea. They
[rented] several places before they finally hit this place here. Historical
C: So what did he [your father]interview do after he got back from Denmark?
I: He worked historyon this farm for a long time and then ... at the time you remember that... this W.P.A. work came on.Minnesota And he worked on that. And, of course, they got rubbed down, you know,Oral an awfullot--they were standing on the shovel. But Dad didn't. Dad worked. I mean he worked for whatever he got. He worked. He earned what he got. He earned what he got.
Carol: By that time he was close to past 60?
73 I: Yes, oh yea. Right. Dad was not lazy, he was a hard worker and he expected everyone else to do the same thing.
Carol: Tell about the food you ate. Grandma [Jensen] boiled the sunfish.
I: Oh, she boiled the sunfish .. .in salt water.
C: [To Carol] You've got to make potato soup sometime. I want potato soup. Frelander I: Oh that's the easiest thing in the world to make. [Speaking to Carol] Inger Carol: I never make it. I don't know how. Society with I: [Speaking to Carol] You don't make it? Ob, Carol what is it. There's nothing to it.
There is nothing to it. You boil potatoes. You boil potatoes. Say, ... take a, well of Historical course for your family now you take about half dozen potatoes and a good sized onion and chop it up. Boil it. Boilinterview it and when they're done you crush them with a egg, with a beater, with a mixer. Leave some water in there. And then what you should is have whole milk or historyeven a little cream in there and a chunk of butter. I have it too with skim milk, but it is better withMinnesota whole milk you know. You had it a lot, because that was a cheapOral thing to make.
C: Do you put carrots in?
I: No, I've never put carrots in, but you could.
74 l,.. Carol: Now did she [Grandma Jensen] make .. .it was mostly boiled potatoes wasn't it? And she made a mush.
I: Yea.
Carol: I mean the food was kind of bland.
I: She was a good cook. Frelander Carol: She was a good cook and yet the food--Danish foods. It was bland as I remember it. Inger Society I: It was tasty. It was very tasty what she madewith to me it was to tasty.
Gloria: She waited on Grandpa hand and foot. Historical
I: We always said that we hopedinterview that he ...
Carol: Wouldn't go first. historyMinnesota I: BecauseOral nobody could cook to suit him. Nobody could cook to suit him. Nope, nobody.
Carol: See Grandpa would fix nothing [edited]. And Grandma was the sickly one and we
said that if she went first it would be awful. Well as it turned out he was never sick a day
in his life and just like that and just like that he had a heart attack and was gone. All at
one time.
75 C: Is that Danish tradition for him to get waited on like that.
I: No, a lot of the men had to be waited on hand and foot.
Carol: That wasn't necessarily Danish.
I: That wasn't necessarily Danish.
Carol: That was just back then. Men were waited on. Frelander
Gloria: In that book I was reading of Swedish ways it saysInger that the woman back then would, like you said Grandma did not really a lot of times eat. SocietyIt said in that book about Swedish ways way back when the immigrants withcame over and stuff that the woman would stay back and do the cooking and serve all the men and maybe the children. I can't remember. And they would afterwards get any scraps that was any. And they would Historical never eat by the table. They would stay back by the stove at eat you know, maybe if there was some scraps left. interview
Carol: Grandma Jensen has snow white hair. historyMinnesota I: AndOral curly.
Carol: And she would wear it back in a bun. She was the perfect looking grandma.
I: She had beautiful hair. She had beautiful hair.
Gloria: Mrs. Santa Claus.
76 Carol: Yes because she had this pudgy, pudgy round face and she was gorgeous.
Gloria: Wouldn't she have been a perfect Mrs. Santa Claus?
Carol: Yep. And you know one of the ways she kept her hair so snowy white. Mom
[Inger] said she put bluing--Iaundry bluing in her rinse water.
I: A little bit of bluing in her water. Frelander
C: In her what? Inger Society Carol: In her ... when she'd rinse her hair after shewith washed it because it was real long. It was past her waste. And she'd put bluing in the rinse water and that would keep it from looking yellow. In never looked blue. Historical
C: Wasn't your hair really longinterview when you were young?
I: Yea. It was kind oflong. historyMinnesota Carol:Oral [Speaking to Chad] Grandma had braids. [Speaking to Inger] Remember that picture at home with the chickens.
I: That's your talking about now.
Carol: Yea ... [Conversation turned to the picture and making copies, etc. and who would get what.]
77 Gloria: You have to go to Denmark again.
I: Well I can't go there unless. You know they don't say anything about coming over any
more. Or they don't say anything about anything ...
Gloria: I wonder if Tovee [one ofInger's cousins living in Denmark] is not feeling very
good. Frelander I: I don't know if she's feeling that good. And I can't afford to go over there unless I'm staying with somebody. You know, it's much too expensive.Inger You can't do it. Of course Debbie [one ofInger's granddaughters] wants me to come to EnglandSociety and then go over there. Well, Debbie wants us to come there andwith spend with her. She says "any of you <...,., come, spend time with me and Greg [Debbie's husband]. We've got room." Historical Carol: They're going to England. interview
C: I didn't know that. history I: Oh yea, they're goingMinnesota in April for three years. Three years they're going. Oral C: On the ship that you came over on you said there was a lot of Poles, and some
Swedes. Were there Norwegians?
I: A lot of Polish people. No I don't...There was a few, but no they were mainly Polish
people and, ah, actually the biggest percentage were Polish people on that. But there
were a variety of Norwegians, Danes, and Swedes.
78 L C: So you were of a mixed minority?
I: Yea, I would say so.
C: I think it would be so much fun to take a train trip to New York and Washington.
I: [Laughs] Frelander C: I think that would just be the neatest. And take a boat trip out into the harbor [referring to New York harbor]. I mean just a ferry. ThisInger summer. Society Carol: What are your memories of being on Elliswith Island?
I: What are my memories of that? Actually I don't have too many memories of that. I Historical remember seeing doctors there. And I remember of having them put stuff in my eyes, in
my ears, in my nose. You know.interview They were checking you out, you know, so that you
didn't bring any disease or stuff in to the country. history Carol: Did they scrub youMinnesota for head lice and stuff like that? Oral I: No. I presume they found out pretty quickly that we didn't have such things. I suppose
they could tell pretty much ...
But I remember those two Swedish girls. There were two young Swedish girls. I
don't know if they were sisters or friends. Come over--it must have been sisters, because
they said their brother was going to meet them and verify that they had some place to stay.
They either had to have enough money to survive by themselves or they had to have a
79 l" sponsor. Most people that came in had to have a sponsor. And this brother never came, so they were shipped back to Sweden.
C: So Chris Christiansen was your sponsor?
I: Apparently. Apparently
C: Did your mother or father have any brothers or sisters that came over here, after or before? Frelander
I: Years ago Dad had a brother that came to Iowa, butInger I don't know where. Society C: Really! with
I: And years before that...1 mean Dad also had a brother that went to South America in Historical Argentina. We don't know anything about it. interview
C: A lot of Germans in Argentina. history I: Argentina and in IowaMinnesota too. Oral Carol: Who exactly changed Daddy's name from Anderson to Frelander?
I: Ha, ha. Now this is something that I can't figure out, because in that book now there is
nothing about Andersons. There is not a thing about Andersons. It says about Frelander
coming over and its spelled-Frilend-Frelander. E-'i' is e in Dane or Norwegian e. So its
Frelander spelled with an'i' ...
80 Carol: I heard the story that someone on the way over was changed the name from
Anderson to Frelander, because they were coming to the land of the free.
I: I never heard that. I don't know. I never heard that one.
Carol: Where did we hear that?
I: I understand that they were Andersons, you know. And there wereFrelander so many Andersons. Right. But now when I read that book--there's a book from Norway. It's in Norwegian, but its made up from people that came fromInger Selboo. From Selboo. Society Carol: So it could have been made up after theywith got here and by that time they were then Frelanders.
Historical I: Perhaps. But there's nothing in there about Andersons--not a thing. interview
C: Swedes and Norwegians don't get along do they? history I: Well, there was at oneMinnesota time, you know, a war between Denmark and Sweden. And DenmarkOral also was the ruler over Norway for many, many years. That little country had Greenland and Iceland and Norway.
C: They were the most powerful Vikings the Danes were?
I: Right. Right. Then Norway pulled away and are on their own. And I think is it
Iceland or Greenland that has pulled away now? There is only one left now.
81 C: I think it was Greenland.
I: Is it Greenland? Yea, I think its Iceland that still belongs to Denmark then. But
Denmark is the oldest kingdom in the world. Did you know that?
C: Yea. Ithink I did.
I: And it relates way back to the ... oh its even before the sixteenth Frelandercentury I think. It dates way back. Well actually I got all that information. And in fact Gloria has got that information, I think, in the Royal Copenhagen book. InInger the first pages there it states how far back the Danish--Danish is the oldest kingdom in the world.Society And I think it states in that book the very beginning of Denmark. It's withway back--way back.
C: I originally asked in Norwegians and Swedes get along. Historical
I: And I think they get alonginterview O.K. No, I think they do. I think they do now.
Carol: Originally Denmark and Sweden didn't. historyMinnesota C: WhenOral you first came over you moved to a predominately Swedish town--Grove City. Was there a problem with that?
I: Well we moved to the Danish first. And then we moved to the Swedish, actually.
Carol: Was there any problem with that?
82 I: No. 011, no, no, no. There was no problem. But they had a tendency to go to
Rosendale, because they were Danes. And the Swedes had a tendency to go to Swede
Grove. That was the home. And the Germans had to go over west of there, because all the Germans were there. The Finnish were up in Forest City. You know the Finnish were up in there, and so on. And they had a tendency. Now people are getting mixed up so pretty soon there isn't such a thing as the territory for just the Danes, a territory just for
Swedes or Norwegians and so on and so forth.
Gloria: All the churches used to be called the Swedish Lutheran, theFrelander Norwegian Lutheran, and so on. Inger I: You saw the name of that Swedish church that Edith belongSociety to in Sweden--in that book today. He went through it so fast. with Now this is such a mixed up turmoil. You know I've gone from our thing way back and then back and forth. Doesn't that make a big difference? Historical
C: I'll just sort it out. interview
C: When you historyfound out you were going to come to America--How long was it from that time until when you actuallyMinnesota left? Oral I: No, it wasn't a long time. It was relatively short time, really. Within months actually.
C: It was during the same school year?
I: Oh, yes.
83 '-." [Laughs] There was one incident on board ship I don't know ifI should--is that thing
running?
C: Yes.
I: [Laughs] It's really funny you know. There were several things that were funny aboard
ship, you know. First of all, you know, I was telling how sick they'd get, you know.
Different people how terrible sick they would get. And I remember one Jewish boy--very nice looking young man. One day the sea was unusually boily. VeryFrelander few people came out to eat. Very few people could eat, because it was just too much. Of course, I was out there first thing. [Laughter] And my brother cam also,Inger although he couldn't handle it quite as good as I could. Anyway, this young man came out andSociety he looked pretty little green around the eyes. He wasn't feeling goodwith at all, you know. He sat down across from ~ Fred and I was sitting here. I think the three of us were the only ones at this long table! It was dinner. It was noon hour. Nobody came to eat, you know. And the food was set in Historical front of us or we went--and I don't remember. No I guess it was just set in front of us
when we came. I think theseinterview people that help--they set it in front of us. And, you know,
this is as plane as if it happened yesterday. [Laughs] I'll never forget it. That young man sat down and hehistory took one look at [the] plate [makes motion of vomiting] and it landed right in my brother's plate.Minnesota [Laughter] My brother took offlike a steak oflightning. I stayedOral and ate my food. [Laughter]
C: That's great.
I: It didn't bother my any. It didn't hit my plate. [Laughter]
Carol: You had to be a kid.
84 I: You had to be a kid. You couldn't take it now.
And then there was a young girl. She was always--she fell over all these officers.
She was just, you know, sixteen or seventeen years old, you know. And, oh boy, these officers in these beautiful suits, you know. The rest of us, we didn't care. We were nine ten years old who cared about those officers, you know. [Laughs] But she--and one time her mother caught her with one of the officers in her cabin. And I'm telling you, us three or four, whatever it was, stood outside and listened, while her mother was spanking this big girl. [Laughter] She actually put her across her lap and she spankedFrelander her. And she screamed, and screamed. And she said, "I'll give you something to scream about!" You know. [Laughter] And we stood out there. We thoughtInger that was funny. This big girl getting a licking. Society with Carol: You saw a whale too didn't you say?
Historical I: Yea, up by Norway they shot at one. Now I don't remember seeing it, but I Remember the --talking about it. interview
Carol: No sharks? historyMinnesota I: NoOral sharks. But I remember that ship we met. We could almost reach across and shook hands with as we went by. We waved to each other.
C: They were going towards Europe?
I: They were going towards Europe. We were going towards America.
C: Was it an American ship?
85 I: Well, I don't know. I don't know what ship it was. It was big--ocean liner they called
them then--ocean liner.
C: What did you think about World War II? Did you hate Germany?
I: No. Well we were kind of perturbed. In Denmark, you know, by one castle. Gloria,
did you see that by that one castle where this deer was laid to the ground with a vulture on top of it. That was supposed to signify what Germany had done toFrelander Denmark.
Gloria: Yep. Inger Society I: Two German officers took over my aunt andwith uncle's home. And my aunt and uncle <.." were their servants for the duration. We couldn't--we wrote to them and they wrote to us, but all their letters were censored. They were censored. Half of it we couldn't--if they Historical wrote anything they didn't want us to know the Germans censored. It went through their
hands. And ours went throughinterview their hands before they got to them. And my uncle and
aunt had to do as they wanted. They took over and my aunt and uncle were their servants in their own home.history Ah, at the time I was more disturbed about the fact what they did to Norway. Because underMinnesota the First World War we were there. We lived there. And all theseOral German children and Czechoslovakian children, Austrian. Small children were sent into Denmark, Norway. Sweden was out. Sweden was neutral. They wanted nothing of
it. But Norway took them in. Denmark took them in. Denmark didn't had not much
choice. Denmark was small. They had no choice. They were like this vulture that went
right down took them up. They had no choice in doing anything except what they were
told to do. But maybe Norway didn't either. But anyway, Norway took them and we did.
And these children figured out all these fjords. They knew exactly every little crevice and
86 every little hidden place. All these. And made use of that in the Second World War.
These boys and girls went back to their home country and they remembered all this stuff
And during the Second World War they were told to get in there and they did an awful lot of damage to those Norwegians that had befriended them and taken them in when they were young kids. And, like I said, in Denmark they did the same, but not quite as much, because there weren't quite the places--the hiding places and the way too ...
Gloria: This guide told us that the fjords were so deep that there could be Russian subs in there without them knowing it. Frelander
I: Yes. They could hide in there. They could hide. Inger Society Gloria: And they have tried to put things at thewith opening, you know, to keep everything out, but it's real hard to keep them out. And they were telling about how the Germans came in during World War II and went way deep into the fjords and this town how Historical everything was destroyed completely except the except, you know, the groves ... They just came in and destroyed ... interview
c: How were the fjords formed? historyMinnesota Gloria:Oral I don't know.
I: I suppose it must be the ocean that works in there and breaks it up, you know. Yea, the ocean, I think the ocean got a lot to do with to do with that. You know, how its made into the, you know.
87 Gloria: But anyway they're beautiful places--those fjord areas. Yea they just so far into the country that it's hard to protect the country.
C: Yea.
I: Yea. Those fjords really go way in and they're a beautiful, I guess. I've never been there. I'd like to go.
C: Well isn't Norway supposed to have a huge, huge shoreline, becauseFrelander it goes like this [makes a wavy motion]? Inger I: Yes. Yes they do. Society with Gloria: Plus its a terribly long country anyway, but then all those miles of fjords. Historical I: [Missing conversation--end of tape]. . .lived in the heart of Copenhagen. And then we interview had what we called a summer home. It was a little cottage like in the outskirts of
Copenhagen where we'd spend Sundays. We had a garden out there. We had tame rabbits. It washistory a little one ... They had all these little houses and all these ... actually it was one room--where you probablyMinnesota had two beds, one on each side, you know. Then the little backOral where you'd have the kitchen. So you could cook for a day or two whenever you were out there. And, oh, this whole ... well this like a park. And each party had .. .it was like up at the lake, you know here, only we didn't have a lake there. We had the ocean all around us. But on this little ... there are a lot of those over in the outskirts of Copenhagen.
They would have this little piece of land for a garden, and this little home, a swing set for the kids. And then up in the middle of this would be a big park where on Sundays they'd
88 have music and they'd different things going on in this park. And picnic tables and whatever.
C: Do they still have these today?
I: Yea, they still have those little places. Yea. Then, you know, we'd go on bicycles out there. That is Dad and Fred had bicycles, Mother and I didn't have any. But Dan had a side cart on his to put me in when I was little. And Mother was going to get a bike too. [Laughs] Mother couldn't ride a bike, neither could I later on either,Frelander so I understand exactly. We had--on our street we had little light pole, you know, where they'd light the lamp, you know--with wicks in like a candle, you know,Inger only they were like a little gas, I guess. Society with C: Like a gas lantern?
Historical I: Yea. But they lit each night. People light them. I suppose each street had somebody that would take care of that interviewstreet you know and somebody else had another street, and so on. And, you know Mother got a bike then, so she could go out there to the garden too. And, ah [laughs]history here were these little light poles. They were no bigger than my finger, I suppose. You wouldn'tMinnesota believe--when Mother got on that bike she looked at that pole and she hitOral it square on and fell off [Laughter] Never went on a bike again. Never went on a bike again. How could she hit that little pole? The whole street all around. [Laughs]
[Conversation turns to finger signs, because Inger pointed with her middle finger.]
I: Listen. You know I had when Papa [Wally] died. They never told me this before Papa died. But after Papa died that first Christmas after I put my little red light out on my bell,
89 you know. It was a bell--a red bell ... [Laughs] Red lantern district. Have you ever heard of them?
C: No.
I: Oh, he's never heard ... See he's as innocent as I am. He's never heard of a red light district.
C: Oh, yea, I know where that is. That's where they have the whores.Frelander
I: Yea, sure. Inger That's all going on tape. [Laughter] And I didn't knowSociety what they were talking about. "What on earth are you talking about. withThat's my Christmas bell. For heaven sakes, I don't have that out there except at Christmas time." I says, "What have you got up in your brains? What have you up there? Just mush?" I says, I'm not in the gutter. Historical You must be there," I'd say. I'd get real mad about that. But I took the bell down.
[Laughter] interview
Carol: You learned from that anyway. historyMinnesota C: WhenOral was the first time you lived in a house with electricity?
I: When was the first? I suppose the old house in Litchfield. Right, I guess so. We didn't have electricity out on the farm.
Gloria: There was no running water, not there when we got there.
90 ~ l" Carol: There was no plumbing.
I: No, there was no plumbing. We had a pump outside. We had a pump outside. We did
have electricity.
C: Those are cool.
I: Sure as long as you didn't have to stand there and pump it all the time. But, you know, when you had to pump it for all cows out on the farm, then you didn'tFrelander like it so well. When your engine didn't. When your Indian or engine didn't work. Inger Carol: Tell us about the games you played in Denmark. Society with Gloria: And Christmas
Historical I: You know at Christmas time we would have our Christmas tree and they would always
pull it out in the center of theinterview room. And then everybody would hold hands and we'd
dance around the Christmas tree. Always dance around the Christmas tree. We would hold hands. [Ingerhistory sings a Christmas song.]. .. Now begins the dance. And then they'd go around, you know. Yes,Minnesota the Christmas tree always came out. Oral Carol: Can you sing it now in English?
I: [Laughs, then repeats the Danish version.] [Singing] "High on the tree's green top is
the Christmas star. It lights the Christmas spirit"--so to speak. [Resumes in Dane] "All
the players get your instruments and start playing. Now the dance will start." And they
would go around and they'd sing this, you know ....
91 C: Did they exchange presents?
I: Yes. They exchange presents. In fact, I'll have to tell you when this Chris Christiansen was there, you know. He was trying to show himself for this lady friend he was courting, you know. And she had this little girl. She was only two years old. So he bought dolls, teddy bears, doll buggies. Everything under the sun. Fred and I were invited over there for Christmas Eve. I will never forget that ifllive to be a hundred. And mother and Dad said, "sure, we could go over there." Well over there was no kid, Frelanderfor us--our age--I was .... [Tape ends] Inger Society [Tape three, side one] with
Historical C: Ah, so! [Laughter] No, okay. Well first of all we want to start back again like your youth in Denmark. Okay... interviewand ... so ...
I: Where I was born? historyMinnesota C: Yea,Oral I want to ask you, okay like, first of all your birthday?
I: October 17, 1911.
C: Okay, and K, and then okay the date you became a Jensen? Do you know what time, like when you moved in with the family? Okay, 'cause then ...
92 I: Oh, I moved in with the family when I was about a little over a year.
c: Okay, and you were in an orphanage before then, right?
I: Right.
c: And you had rickets, when you moved in and you were sick for...
I: I had, I was very bad offwith rickets. I was, you know, crippledFrelander with rickets until I was about two and a half. Inger c: Okay. Society with '-." I: I didn't stand up until I was about two and a half
Historical c: Wow, wow. interview
I: And urn, I was born in the Rice hospital, Copenhagen. And I lived with the Jensen family until I washistory nine, when they adopted me. Because that's the only way they could take me along to America,Minnesota because they were going to America. Oral c: So you were a foster child too?
I: My name before that was Madsen.
c: Madsen. Wew you, your teacher was Meta Madsen. No relation at all?
I: No relation.
93 c: Okay, Madsen is fine.
I: Unless I don't know.
C: Yea, Yea, do you know who your, okay your, your mother was, what was her name?
I: Her name was Martha Viola Madsen. Frelander c: Okay. Inger I: But she was always called my Aunt [sounds like "ant"] Viola.Society She didn't go by--Martha Viola was her name, but she was called Viola. with
C: And did you ever... Historical
I: And that's what I called her,interview Aunt Viola.
C: Vb huh. And did you ever know your father, your biological father? historyMinnesota I: Nope.Oral I didn't know him except his name was Robert, I guess. That's all I. ..
C: That's all you know.
I: That's all I know.
C: Yea, and then you had a little brother that was four years younger than you.
94 I: Yea, Elof .. E-L-O-F [Spells it]
c: Okay.
I: That's definite Danish.
c: Is that the Danish for Olaf, do you know? Any idea?
I: Elof is definitely Danish. Frelander c: Okay, but it is, ya know, the Norwegian is Olaf Inger Society I: No ... yes, I do think maybe there's an Olaf inwith Denmark, but I don't know. Elofis definately Danish.
Historical c: Do you know what the English translation for that would be? Is there? Or isn't there one? There might not be one.interview
I: Elof..no. There's no translation ... no. historyMinnesota c: Okay.Oral 'Cause like E in Scottish is John or Jack. It could be Jack.
I: Yea, it's like Frelander...in Den, in Norway was spelled with an "i" because and "i" is pronounced "ee" in both Norwegian and Dane. c: Oh, okay.
95 I: So Frelander when he came over here got to be the e instead of the i.
c: Oh, ya mean Papa's--Papa's father came to America? Right? Or did his grandfather?
I: Oh, yes! Yes!
c: Papa's father.
I: No, his father and mother came from Sweden, his father came fromFrelander Norway. c: And wasn't their name, urn, Emerson? Inger Society I: I take that back. I take that back. Grandpawith came over when he was two-years-old, but Grandma Weslen, Grandma Weslen was born in this country. Her parents came over. Historical c: Okay, okay. So ... Papa's grandfather then, no, Papa's father was two-years-old. interview
I: Yea, Papa's dad was two-years-old when he came to this country ... from Norway. history c: Okay. Okay. But theirMinnesota name wasn't Frelander then? Oral I: And, uh. Well--you know that's debatable now. I went, I read a book and in there it's definately Frelanders came over exaultable. But, I think maybe that book was written in
America. Because it's definately been understood that our name was Anderson, and there was so many Andersons ... and they took this name from, the Norwegian ... some farm or some ... over there, homestead. They called them gaard, G-A-A-R-D [Spells it] was like a farmstead.
96 c: Hum. Yea, and--and that one was, like, ah, Westlander, was we
I: Wesla!
C: It was like west grove of trees or something.
I: Wesla. No, that name they had when they came to this, this was, that was a Swedish name. Wesla. Frelander
C: Yea, and that meant like west, west grove of trees orInger something like, where they lived, right? Society with I: No, no not necessarily. Historical C: Wasn't it? interview
I: No, not necessarily. history C: Okay. Minnesota Oral I: No, ah, west of course, I mean it's uh, no, not necessarily, uh, uh. No, the Frelander where she gets that from is, uh, the Frelander name was taken from like a homestead or some, some farmstead over in Norway. Not the Weslan, but the Frelander.
97 L c: Oh, okay, okay, okay. Great. Okay, so what was your, the Jensen's name then? The, your mother and father?
I: Valdemar and Anna Jensen.
c: I've got to know how to spell it. I'm not sure how to spell it. And what was it?
I: Valdemar, V-A-L-D-E-M-A-R [Spells it]. And Anna, and Anna, A-N-A [Spells it]. Frelander C: Two N's or one? Inger I: Yea, two N's. Society with <.." C: Two N's, okay. Okay, and Frederick, your brother's name. How was that spelled in Dane? Historical
I: Oh, F-R-E-D-E [Spells it].interview
C: O-F-R-E-D-D [Spells it]. historyMinnesota I: JustOral F-R-E- ... D-E.
C: Oh, okay.
I: So it would be pronounced Fredee, but he took the e offwhen he came to this country.
C: Uh, huh. So it wasn't Frederick.
98 I: No, no. Frede is what it is, he just took the e off
C: Oh, wow. Okay, an he was, now when was he born?
I: He was, uh, see around five years older than I was, so he was born in 1906. [Said nineteen-six, no zero]
C: 1906 [Said nineteen-six, no zero], and your mother was born in 1975. Frelander I: And he was born December 2nd. Inger C: 1875. Society with I: And Mother was born in 1875 and Dad, in 1877. Historical C: Okay, okay, urn .. .let's see, let's see ... interview
I: That is, my foster parents. history C: Uh, huh. Okay, andMinnesota then, urn, I wanted ya, okay where did you live in Copenhagen? And Oralthen could you like describe the house?
I: Oh.
C: Did you live in the downtown Of...
99 I: Right downtown Copenhagen, the houses were connected .. .like we'd go in the front door in order to get to the garden in the back we'd have to go right straight through it because they were connected from one end to the other. All these houses were connected.
C: Okay.
I: So could not get to the back yard unless you went through your own front door and that was always locked. You had to ring the door bell ... or knock, even if you were out playing. Frelander
C: So it was like a whole block of houses connected? Inger Society I: Whole block of houses connected. with
C: Oh, wow! Okay. Historical
I: Both sides of the street. Bothinterview sides of the street. And the name, and the address was
34 ---- history c: Yea, yea, I got the Minnesotaspelling last time! Remember that? We were talking about how to spell Oralit for so long.
I: Ob, yea! That's right, yea!
C: Urn, so were was your class in your, in Denmark? I mean social class, like were you middle class?
I: Oh, oh, you mean our standing in society?
100 C: Yea, economic class.
I: We'd say, we were middle class people.
C: Middle class, okay.
I: Middle class people, yea. Frelander C: So you kind of dropped a class? Not, you didn't go to poor, but, I mean ... Inger I: No. Society with C: I mean just 'cause you had such a hard time getting started when you came here. Historical I: No, we had, no over in Denmark we were well-off at that time. interview
C: Yea, but I mean when you came over to America. history I: But in America, we Minnesotadropped clear down because we came over. Well, our money, whenOral it was converted into the English dollar amounted to a hundred and twenty-seven dollars. [Laughter] Oh, what a strange country with hardly anybody, with not knowing
how to speak the language, it was really bad news. Well, see we were sponsored by
somebody who didn't turn out to be. So that is why we ran into such big problems.
C: Yea, that's right. Mr. Christiensen.
101 1: Had this, had this fellow come through with what he had promised, or what Dad had
understood him to have promised because I don't know. But that was the understanding
that he had, that he would help us set up and Dad would pay him back. You know ... over
a period of time. He would pay him back. As it was, we had to start with scrap, with a
team of horses that we bought for sixteen dollars.
C: Mike and Pat.
I: Mike and Pat. [Laughter] Did you get that one? Frelander
C : Yea [Laughter]. Inger Society 1: How 'bout that! Then we bought Mike laterwith on, no, Pat and Frank were the first two, Mike was the later one. Pat and Frank were the two, the team for sixteen dollars. Pat and
Frank. There was a, like a ... when you think about it. They were really a wiry team of Historical horses. Not very big, but very wiry. And we bought, ah, three cows. One died on the
way home. We, walked theminterview home it was a long ways. And Dad actually, ya know one
was heavy with calf, actually operated on the calf, on that cow with a pocket knife. And we raised that historycalf, and of course the cow died on the way home and then he extracted the calf Minnesota Oral C: Was the cow dead before he operated [or] as he ... died?
I: The cow was dead, but he, therefore he had to hurry otherwise the calf would have
died too. But he had to hurry. So I'd assume the cow was gone, while he did this.
[Checking tape to make sure it's working.] L
102 c: Okay, I want to ask you also, what was your school like in Denmark? Like, when did you start? What was the building like? How big were your classes, kinda thing?
I: Our building was a great big stone, brick building. It housed 1600 children, 800 boys,
800 girls. The girls were all on the one side, the boys were all on the other. Our play yard went in the opposite directions, the girls and boys were not mixed, but they were here. I started in school, there were so many children, we had several classes of the same class, you know, grade. And, uh, for instance, one week I would probably go to school from maybe a month, I don't remember exactly how that went. However,Frelander I would go to school from say maybe seven or eight o'clock in the morning 'til noon. And then the next week or the next month, however, I would probably start at one Ingero'clock in the afternoon and not come home 'til five. Society with C: Wow! Is that 'cause there was so many kids that they'd have to shift it?
Historical I: Yea, they'd have to shift them around. But, whether it was weekly or monthly or if it was even a six month period.interview
We went to school the year around except for a couple of weeks during the summer. And we went to school from Monday through Saturday, with just Sunday off historyMinnesota C: SoOral your days were a little bit shorter though, 'cause you had to have split the day between two sets of kids?
I: Yea, right. So of course we didn't have as long a day as we do here.
C: No, well, you couldn't 'cause the school would have to be open 'til ten at night.
103 I: However, my brother had a longer day. I think he went from eight in the morning until
some time in the afternoon. His was a full day, he was in the upper grades. And so his
day was longer than mine. It was just the smaller ones that uh, well actually, when I came
over here I had started the third grade. See I didn't start until I was, I was seven-years
old. I was nine, I had just barely started the, so I'd just gone two, two years in school.
c: Is that normal, seven, I mean back then, seven-years-old?
I: Yea, yea, six-and-a-half, seven, something like that. Frelander
c: And how, how long, say you could have stayed in Denmark,Inger how long would that have lasted. Society with (.., I: You see, with, with now, with the period of time we went to school--that shortened of
course my brother, who was fourteen, was an eighth grader. Historical
C: How many grades were thereinterview in Denmark?
I: And then hehistory would finish, he would go into a different school completely, now I don't know we didn't have likeMinnesota a high school it was a finishing school and you'd go from there. Oral C: Uh, huh. I think it's, I think they still have it like that.
I: Right. From the eighth grade right, to the finishing school. We didn't have this high
school in between that and the college.
C: Yea, I think it's still like that. I mean I have a Norwegian friend and I think that's how
he described it.
104 L I: Yea, right.
C: So do you remember any idea of what the name of your school was?
I: That I can't remember. But it was a huge building and I knew, I found it when I came
back the first time after forty-five years I found my school...
C: Is it still in use? Frelander
I: I don't know. It was a Sunday we were there. I presumeInger it was still in use because, Society C: They hadn't torn it down? with
I: No, it was the building was still there and so was the places where we lived, the houses Historical they were, this was now had gotten to be the very old part of Copenhagen. At the time
when we were there, it was justinterview an average, family residential section. And there was a
grocery store on one side of the meat market and then there was a drug store on the other corner, that washistory not there now when I came back forty-five years later, there it was just a residential section now,Minnesota and there was no traffic going through, it was blocked on both ends,Oral just walking through, no one could drive through. C: Did your, did your family own a car in Denmark?
I: No.
C: They weren't really, before 1820 though, they weren't really a lot of cars anyway.
105 I: No, all bicycles, bicycles allover, everybody rode bicycles.
C: Is it still like that, I mean is there still a lit of bikes?
I: There are still a lot of bikes, however there's also a lot of cars, and the transportation in
Denmark is very, very good, compared to what it is in America. We have uh, in, in
Copenhagen there is, there is hourly, even less in some places, or two hourly bur service from almost every direction, and from every depot there is commuter trains from one town to another, that go every two to three hours, from there into the heartFrelander of Copenhagen or out to the outskirts of _____. There is a lot of where you have to transfer, but there is no problem getting a train or a bus anywheres, any time,Inger or anywheres. Society C: So you don't really need a car as much as youwith do here do you?
I: No, no, definitely not, over you absolutely, it's almost impossible not to have a car here Historical because there is no way of transportation. interview
C: Yea, unless you just stay in the city 'cause, I mean you catch buses downtown. history I: Even so, the buses hereMinnesota are very limited and they're not as close, now I don't know if I can catchOral one up here on, on, I wonder if there's one that can be caught up here on Emerson. Now if I was going to the big depot now I could catch the bus, but, whether it,
C: You'd have to transfer sometimes.
I: Well, I transfer at the bus depot, but ifit would coincide so I could get the bus, ifl
could get there early enough, from over here in Bloomington, is it goes in there early
106 enough so that I could catch a bus, we only have one bus going into Litchfield now. As compared to what, when I worked in Litchfield when I, when we first came to town we had uh, one, two, three, four, we had all of six buses coming and going--we had an early bus, we had about a ten o'clock bus, we [had] about a noon bus, we had an afternoon bus, we had an evening bus, and we had a late bus.
C: Wow [Laughter].
I: Compared to what we have now, one bus. And the traveling, andFrelander the service here has become pathetic, but it's maybe because we've got so many cars. But there are still some people that don't have cars, and no way of transportation.Inger A lot of old people don't have a way of getting any place because unless they get that one bus toSociety where they're going, and then they can't commute. There is a service now,with but it's very expensive, if you want to go to the airport you can call Willmar, that's the closest, they will come and pick you up and take you to the airport--but it's very expensive. And a lot of older people can't afford that. Historical
C: Yea, Mankato had one, theyinterview did that too.
I: But not in Litchfield,history you have to call Willmar first and set the time and they will come and pick you up, and takeMinnesota you to the airport. Oral C: It's gotta be expensive though.
I: Very expensive.
C: Like a taxi even.
107 I: It's like a taxi, it's like a taxi. And they again can come and pick you up from the airport and bring you back home. But uh, well of course it probably isn't as high as to where you're going on the plane, but the plane is almost cheaper than the service
[Laughter]. I mean compared it, compared it, sure.
C: And if you're, well, like in a big ...
I: I think I started paying about five to eight dollars for a bus fare to the Cities. And, and now it's twenty dollars for senior citizen's discount. So I don't knowFrelander what it is, twenty two, twenty-three for an ordinary, I don't know, something like that. Inger C: But I, you know, like if you're old and living in the suburbs Societyhere, there's no way you could get, just walk to a grocery store, and especiallywith in the winter.
I: No, no, and a lot of older people don't dare to. They don't dare to, they don't dare to Historical take their purse and go out, for fear they're going to be slugged for about five hours or
something, it, it's pathetic! interview
C: Yea, yea, you hear about hose things, they're sick. historyMinnesota I: It'sOral really pathetic, uh, huh, yea, it's bad news.
C: Well, not to change the subject, but like I wanted to ask you another question like,
okay, I wanna, I'm gonna ask you what was a typical day like for you as a child in
Denmark and I'm probably going to ask you like a typical day, you know, in here too, in
America, but like when you were a child what was a typical day? Like would you do?
108 I: A typical day for me in Denmark. ..
c: What would you eat? The games and stuff like that?
I: ... at that time when I was, when I was a child, like it is over here or any other place for,
for a child.... I only remember I suppose five years to nine is to get up and get dressed
and have something to eat, which usually consisted of, of bread and butter and maybe a
glass of milk or something like that. I, I don't ever remember cereal, I think over there they ate soup a lot, but that was usually the noon meal. And then we'dFrelander have a regular meal like supper, but he late day, I mean a late part of the day when Father would come home from work, Dad worked in a gas factory, producedInger gas for, it was coal, he worked with coal that produced gas, fuels and stuff like that. I don't rememberSociety how our house was heated, it was a three story, the all these houses,with side by side had three stories, the ~ landlord usually lived on the bottom floor and then an average couple probably lived on the second floor, a younger couple with children or whatever, and the very up, very way Historical up to the peak was just a small apartment which usually housed an older couple. interview
c: Oh, really. So each house was like an apartment, it had three different families. I: Yes, right, threehistory families. I remember, I, the older people that lived upstairs on , in the peak, on the third floorMinnesota actually, we lived on the second floor, and I remember I used to have Oralto run up there with the paper because Mother and Dad got the paper, but the old people upstairs didn't. So when we were through reading it, Mother would always send it
upstairs and that was my job to get it up there because it would take no time for me, in
fact sometimes it took even less when I tripped and rolled all the way down, which I did
[Laughter]. I was very clumsy [Laughter].
c: I suppose not being able to walk until you were two-and-a-half, you know.
109 I: Yea, wee maybe that had something to de with it, I don't know, but I was very clumsy all of the time. I remember getting new shoes and was told to be sure not to scuff them and I was always very careful not to scuff them, but as a rule I would always fall and the toes of my shoes would get scuffed plus my knees plus the inside of my hand plus my nose
[Laughter] .
c: You went face first! Frelander I: Right down, always! When I was a kid, I was very clumsy, I guess I must have been [Laughter] . Inger Society c: Like, okay, what would, what was like yourwith favorite meal?
I: My favorite meal? Hmmmm... Historical c: Did your family cook differentinterview foods when they got over here, or was it?
I: No, we stayed pretty much with the, we stayed pretty much with, actually I was a very poor eater. So I don't know ifl had a favorite meal. historyMinnesota c: Oh,Oral you didn't, you were like Krissy (my sweet, loving, kind, little sister, that I just love to death!), you know, I don't want to eat that, kind of thing?
I: I was a very fussy eater. c: Finicky?
110 I: I was skinny as a rail [Laughter] because I never, actually sometimes, uh, they would just urge me to eat something, because I was never hungry, I was never hungry. It wasn't
that I, I don't know, that I didn't like the food, there was a few things that I didn't like
because Mother catered to Dad, everything that he liked, and we had a lot of, we called it
C: You can spell it later, go ahead.
I: , oh it was kind of a soup, uh, I don't know, it was thickenedFrelander and it was different, oh, it was made with eggs or it was made with different vegetables or something. We had a lot of soups. An awful lot of soups. And in that,Inger a lot of, you know, beef soups, we'd have meat balls in there. Mother would be, she wasSociety a good cook. She could make a delicious meal. But, like I said, there wasn'twith too many of those I liked. I liked, I'll tell you what I liked, was what at Christmas time when we had goose, goose, it was
Danish, instead of turkey over here Historical
C: Oh, really? interview
I: Always, it washistory goose. It was stuffed with apples and prunes, that was the stuffing that we would make, all fiuits,Minnesota apricots and apples, prunes and what have you. In the goose, and thatOral was a real, and another thing I remember that was, and that was a big treat, we'd go out into the country to get for my aunt and uncle. Tovy still does for that
matter, my cousin. And they had, they always had a pig out there for butchering. Uncle
Fredre would buy a small pig and raise it and butcher it and then we would always go out
there at butcher time. Dad would help Uncle
Fredre, Frederick butcher that pig. And then we would have fresh liver and hot chocolate
[Laughter] .
111 C: What a combination!
I: And I remember this hot chocolate with ice or with whipped cream in the middle and then fried, fresh liver.
C: Oh, my gosh! You ate it!
I: They made it, not me [Laughs]! But I remember that was delicious.Frelander Oh, and the smell of all this fresh, because they would render the lard, from this pig, they would cut all the meat up, you know, and now what they did with it , I don'tInger know because at that time there was no such thing as Fridgetaires of freezers or, so don't askSociety me what they did with it after that, because I have no idea. with
C: Maybe sold it? Parts of it to their neighbors, you know what I mean? Historical
I: I have no, I suppose Motherinterview and Dad maybe bought some of it and took back to
Copenhagen. history C: Think about haw muchMinnesota meat must have been ... Oral I: I remember during the war, you know we were over there during that first war, World
War, I can still hear the cannons. And we were uh, we were urn, rationed on most
everything. We had margarine that actually tasted terrible. And bread--we could only buy
so much bread, we had coupons that was good for so many loaves of bread. So Dad, when we went to Copenhagen, I mean out to Beverworth, I , people in different places
bought bread on the black market, great big, long loaves of black bread like Germans have
112 and the Danes have. And you almost carried it like a, a stack of wood, you know. The way it looked [Laughter]. But we'd get one or two loaves of that and bring with us back to Copenhagen, and that would last us quite a while. But the margarine was terrible.
And, uh, we had stamps for most everything, clothes, shoes, what have you. Um, see I was, I was, ifit had been Fred you know, he could remember many more things than I can remember. But, uh, you know we had children from Germany and Czechoslovakia in
Denmark and Norway, and our landlord did not permit it, however I was, ah, however I was, I got together with all these little Czechoslovakian and German kids because they were in our block, all of them, and it was really a lot of fun. NeitherFrelander one of us could understand the other, but we had no problem we had bigger language, and my aunt and uncle had a little girl out there, and it was, and we sent itInger back to Germany and Czechoslovakia, Austria, wherever they came from, with a greatSociety big bag of candy and different clothes and stuff that their parents overwith in this country had bought for them. Well see, this is what was bad, for both Denmark and Norway when the second World
War came along these children had grown up and were now the soldiers from Germany Historical and they knew all the ins and outs of all the fjords in Norway and they did very bad damage over there. And in Denmark,interview you know, two officers took over my aunt and uncle's house and my aunt and uncle bid them their servant. history C: This is World War II?Minnesota Oral I: That was World War II, this is when we were in America by this time. And we heard very little from them at that time and we couldn't write too much and our letters from them were always censored. And their letters were censored. Whatever they opened all
our mail and censored everything and then sent it on. Whatever was, whatever we could
say was fine, I mean, if there was something in there that wasn't to be said, why it was
crossed out, censored. And, uh, and when I was back there the first time I see this, uh,
113 this deer in front of the castle, a statue of a deer that's down--and a vulture has got it
down, holding it. Denmark was so little, Germany took it over without any, we had no,
there was no fight there, like the deer, it just sent down and the vulture held it down. And
that's what the Germans did to the Danes, they didn't necessarily do anything bad to the
Danes except they held them down and they had to do exactly what they told them to and
they did, because they had no other choice. They were a small country and as long as they
did what they were supposed to, everything went okay.
c: They occupied it? Frelander
I: They occupied Denmark as they did Norway. But inInger Norway they did so much more damage because maybe the Norway was bigger and maybe foughtSociety back, where Denmark it did not fight back. with
C: Was there, they fought for two hours then right, there was initial resistance, wasn't Historical there an initial resistance for a couple hours? interview
I: From Denmark? history C: Yes. Minnesota Oral I: Perhaps. That I don't remember. Perhaps there was a little resistance, however there,
like the deer, no doubt there was a little resistance when that vulture came down and
grabbed it, it's going to fight for its life, if it can.
And when it realizes there's no other choice it just succumbs. And Denmark did the same
thing. Whereas Norway was bigger and I think that's where they got hurt more because L they didn't let go as quickly as Denmark did. They fought back. And it was, it was so
114 tragic because there were so many hiding places in Norway in all the fjords you know, and
these children from the first World War had learned all these and had kept them in their
minds. The German children apparently were taught differently than the children in other
lands, to be very observant and quick, and very good to remember. And they were taught
that way from the time they were five-years-old and up, you know, in the Hitler tim~ I
think the little boys were taken from their parents when they were only five-years-old and
put into a, a military camps ... [Tape stops]
Frelander [Tape two, side two] Inger Society I: ... oh, yes. That's. It's terrible. It's scary, butwith that is what they had to do and they (., would. Well, you saw that even in this show ... the kids were just watching it over at your
place .. .Ingress Bagmen's. Historical
c: Oh, At Mother's Request?interview
I: No, no, no ...history the movie with Ingress Bagmen in Germany and the deers and she worked for this rich man with allMinnesota the kids. You know ... Sound of Music! See there you go--Sound of Music.Oral And there it was right in there. This young man fell in love with his oldest girl. But he was in German army and would tum in his girlfriend and her whole family. And
they tried to talk him out of it to come to their side and come with them; there was no
way. No. They do not tum against what they are taught. No matter how much they love
their parents or their spouses, whatever. Yea, right. So, ah, that's a tragic part. Okay.
115 C: Back to World War I. Could you describe what it was like to live in Denmark in
World War I? Was it different during the war as after?
I: Ah, no. As far as I'm concerned it was not except I'm sure that the parents of the grown-ups had quite a time with everything that was rationed. We didn't have the food like we wanted to and everything was rationed. And it was at a very high price, but Dad was making good money. It was no problem. I really don't know why he was so anxious to get to America, because he had a wonderful job with a good retirement in a very few years, in fact, he wouldn't have to work until he was sixty- to seventy-yearsFrelander old. No, he could had a retirement long before that. Inger C: He must have been extremely disappointed once he got here.Society with I: Oh, he was. This is why he would never tum American citizen.
Historical C: Do you think he would have, had what he been told was going to happen would have happened? interview
I: I think so. Ihistory think so. I think is he could have gotten. He didn't expect to get something for nothing. MinnesotaHe expected to pay this man back, but when he found out that actuallyOral this man in the back of his mind had us as white slaves. He had two kids that were big enough to do work. Fred was fourteen--almost a man and could do any work that a grown-up man could, and had to actually, even though not there, but he couldn't stay home. He had to get out and work and take care of himself And at fourteen-years old coming from the city, you know he was not that muscle man you know. However, he threw bundles at threshing time and com bundles--they were heavy. But he had to do all these heavy things on the farm you know, that he was not used to coming right down from
116 the city. But he had to do it there was no choice. Because Mother and Dad had all they could do just to survive themselves and, ah, and me. And, in fact, it was just because of the kindness of the grocer man of Rosendale who set us up with the food that we needed with the promise they'd and they always were paid. But if it wasn't for that, just for the bare necessities--flour, sugar--things we have to have. Yea, it was very rough; it was bad news. And yet Dad wanted to go back to Denmark after: not to begin with there was no way he could go back, because there was no way he could get a ticket. Or buy tickets.
But after we got to the point where he was able to buy a ticket he wanted Mother to go back with him to Denmark. But, uh, she, as long as we were here thereFrelander was no way she was going to leave America. So Dad went back to visit and stayed there, I think about six months or something. But, you see, he had no land actually.Inger Dad was a man without a country really. His citizenship papers in Denmark were void andSociety he held no citizen of America. with C: Was your mom a citizen of America? Historical I: Mother became a citizen of America. Mother took her citizenship papers. interview
C: Do you know when? history I: Oh, that wasn't until..Minnesota .oh, it was a long time. I didn't become a citizen until I was .. .let's see now,Oral Gloria and De were small, it was before Carol was born that I became a citizen. I did not become a citizen by just automatic. I had to take citizenship papers out and so
did Fred.
C: So you had to wait until you were legally an adult to take out citizenship papers?
I: I didn't have to wait, but it just happened. I just happened that I was not a citizen. And
117 L I didn't become a citizen when I married Wally. He was a citizen. But that time--at one time if you married you automatically became a citizen, but not any more. After a certain
period of time and I don't remember when that was, it was changed so that regardless of
whether you married a citizen or not you did not become a citizen. You take out your
own citizen papers.
C: Do you know what year it was?
I: Let's see, Gloris was; I mean De ... Carol was born in '39. I thinkFrelander De, it must have been '37-'38. It was before Carol was born and I was not expecting Carol at the time. So it had to be '37-'38. Inger Society C: Could you vote--did you vote in the 1936 elections?with
I: No, no I couldn't vote. Historical
C: Who was the first personinterview you voted for?
I: Who was thehistory first person I? I don't know. Out in the country, you know, we didn't do a lot of voting. You knowMinnesota that was something we didn't hear about like we do now. Oral C: Did you vote for Roosevelt in '40?
I: Ohyea.
C: You did?
118 I: Oh yea.
C: Could that have been the first time?
I: No. Let me see now, who was before Roosevelt?
C: It was Roosevelt from '32.
I: From '32. Frelander
C: He won '32, '36, '40, and '44. Inger Society I: Yea, that's right. Perhaps it could have beenwith very possible. I do remember, wasn't Harding that was in when we came to this country?
Historical C: Yea (Wilson was on his way out actually). interview
I: Right. And I do remember. .. Let's see now. Who was that after Harding? history C: It was Coolidge. Minnesota Oral I: Coolidge ... Calvin Coolidge and Hoover. Hoover I remember not liking. I did not like
Hoover. I wasn't too fond of Coolidge either. They were both Republicans as I think.
But I don't think that had anything to do with it, because I had voted for Republicans too.
I really don't care, like with religion, I don't care either. I don't care what they call themselves. Whether they call themselves Protestants, Catholics, Jews, or whatever they
call themselves. It doesn't matter to me--it's the people! And that's the same way with
119 politics. Whether my family thinks, you know, I'm sticking with the Democrats just
because I'm a Democrat--it's not true. Because I have, there's been Republicans I have
liked very much.
c: Dad hopefully is one of them? [Laughs]
I: Oh, Dad. Yea definitely. [Laughter] I'm talking about presidents and whatever. Well,
and you know, actually, between you, me, and the fence post and that's on there too I guess now. However, I do believe very strongly that you are very Frelandermuch what the example your parents set in front of you. If they're Democrats, you are tending to go towards the Democrat's side. If they're Republicans, you tend to goInger to the Republican side. You know. I think that when you sit down and talk it brushes off onSociety the kids what the parents want and what the parents like. And naturally withkids towards what their parents prefer, rather than outsiders. That is very natural.
Historical c: Unless they totally rebel against it, which happens too? interview
I: Yes, that can happen ... after you get. After you get older then you got your own mind, but it gets instilledhistory in you to begin with just like the young boys in Hitler's time. It was pushed into them and thereMinnesota was no way you could get it out of them, no matter how [you] tried. Oral
c: Like when they (the Nazis at Nuremberg) were trial they couldn't understand why-
"We were doing the world a favor you know--killing all the Jews--what are you talking
about you know!" L
120 I: Yea, right! Wasn't that horrible? Now I don't know for the life of me I don't the
hereafter, but I know, I also know that in the Bible whether commit a big sin or a small
sin, it's no different. In God's eye a small sin is just as big as a huge sin. However, I can't
imagine there could be a bigger sin than what Hitler committed. All the people that he
killed! All the people he gassed! He put them, literally, live into great big graves! Or put
them into homes--houses--and turned the gas jet on! Now, to me, of course, but see I'm
just a mere nothing. I'm just a mere nothing. God is the Almighty and how He could
allow this is beyond me. And He could say that sin like Hitler committed and a sin like somebody stealing a candy bar off the counter in the grocery store.Frelander You know that is absolutely ... Inger c: Yea, the only way that I can think that something like that happenedSociety is just that He loves us so much that He ... with ~ I: Well Jesus suffered. Look at how Jesus suffered. His only son. Historical C: But like He loves us so much. Like when you're a parent and you love your kid a lot
you have to let them go. Youinterview know what I mean, you can't make them do things. Once
it's their time. And if God really loves us He's got to let us do ... history I: What we want. So youMinnesota mean He could actually love Hitler and let him do what he pleasedOral with other. But there was other people involved there!
C: But if he really loved us .. .In a way this is like philosophy, I guess .. .IfHe really loved
us He can't control our lives ... He can't make us robots.
I: No, that's true. But, however, I do remember saying actually to Bud more than to the
girls [her daughters], because Bud was the youngest and, ah, oh, I remember once there
121 was something that we--he got really angry about [something] that we had done. And I said, and we both told him, "You know it's because we love you we're concerned. If we didn't care you would do as you darned pleased. But it is we care that we don't want you to do such and such a thing! You know. It's because we care for you. We care enough to keep pushing this. We don't want anything to happen." I don't know if it was once he was going someplace or doing something that we disapproved of or something. Ah, and this is what we brought to the kids too. When you care enough you become involved. If you don't care. "I don't care what you do. You can do as you please. You go out and do what want, you know. But I care! I don't want you to do that." SeeFrelander what I mean. I care. I love. And He. That's our Father in heaven. If He had cared enough, it seemed for Hitler He wouldn't have allowed him to do what he wasInger doing. Because eventually Hitler is going to pay. He's going to have to pay for that...somewheres,Society some hour, I don't know how, but we pay eventually for what we, for thewith crimes we have committed towards others, to others, whatever. Understand?
Historical c: Yea, it all comes back to you. interview
I: It all comes back. history c: Do you remember duringMinnesota World War II Denmark was neutral, right? Oral I: Yes.
C: Okay. But do you remember like just your father talking?
I: Well neutral--Sweden has always been more neutral than anybody. They just do not want any thing to do with any of this. Which is fine.
122 C: Do you remember was Denmark siding towards the Germans more During World War I?
I: No, I don't think they were siding with them at all. They were just dormant. They had to be dormant. Dad was a soldier in Denmark you know. I remember he said once that he was at the castle and almost ran full force into the king. [Laughter] And the king says, "Oh, ho, soldier!" [Laughter] He was just as friendly and our government over here, our kings and queens, they have always been very, very everyday people.Frelander I mean just like anybody else. It's just really. And like this son was kind Frederick, that's not the king now I don't think. I have to think back now. But anyway, KingInger Christian--he was king--at the time Frederick was his son--King Frederick--it must have been SocietyKing Frederick at that time. But they're named the same later on--theywith keep on repeating these names. And now he was so friendly with any other boy in school--in college. This boy managed to go to college. Not that he had much of any thing, but he was--he managed to either work his Historical way. And Prince Frederick was a close friend of his. Well, this young fellow had to interview move, I think was he married or I think he was a young married man. Or had gotten married during the time and had to move. And he couldn't afford to have moving man or anything. He hadhistory to rely on friends. And Prince Frederick was one of his friends. And they were looking for PrinceMinnesota Frederick at he castle. They had having a big meeting at the comingOral up. The crowned prince was not there. He was crowned prince, which meant he had to be at these functional meetings, you know. But they could not find him anywheres. And finally they found him up in the back of a truck. [Laughter] Putting stuff into place, because his friend was moving. There was more important things [Pounds fist on table] than a meeting at the castle and that was his friend moving. And that came first with crowned Prince Frederick. His was true blue blood. Hans Taber, have [you] heard about Hans Taber?
123 c: I think I have.
I: Okay. He's the Ambassador from Denmark to ... He was in America for a while. He's
been all over the world as an ambassador.
C: Is this present day?
I: Now. I don't [know] if Hand is still our ambassador. But his wife,Frelander Inger, is a sister to Richard. Inger C: Wow! Society I: Wow is right. So I was in Denmark. And inwith Denmark you say "you" to our family. l,. But if! met someone I didn't know it was "de"--formal and informal. And I was told when we left for Inger's house to be sure and remember the formal way of addressing the Historical Tabers--Hans Taber's. And, of course, I forgot. I was used to saying "you" all the time. I
had been in America since I wasinterview nine. And they brought it up, you know. At that time
Johnson was the president. And I says, "Well, I tell you what. If! met President Johnson face to face I wouldn'thistory say 'your highness' I wouldn't. I'd say probably 'Hello, Mr. Johnson.' I might say, 'Hi,Minnesota Mr. President.'" "Oh, no, you wouldn't do any of those things." "I certainlyOral would." I'd have to say "your highness" and scrape all over the place. [Laughter] Now our king and queen, actually, certainly didn't seem like they ask for [that]
kind oftreatment--formality. But it was a thing that had to be [tradition]. And Inger and
Hans are from the lower class of people, had gotten up on top, and apparently gone to
their head[s] or to an extent, because they were very formal, you know. I says, "The
president in America is just like anybody else." I said, "Sure you'd be tickled pink maybe
to meet him and you'd think, Well, hey, I'm up in the upper class you know.' However,
124 but to us in America, they are people just like anybody else." And I says, apparently
Denmark, as the oldest kingdom in the world, the kings and kings are also would also like to be treated like every day people, although they're in a position where naturally they are looked up to and done something over, you know.
c: At that before you came to America, was the king a figure head or was he was the actual ruling body?
I: Well, he is, ah, I think the king. Yea, I think they are a figure headFrelander to an extent, but they're actually like the president. Their word is not the only thing. I mean sure the president isn't, ah, you know. Sure we blame the presidentInger for this and that you know, but actually there is a lot of people involved in this. He might put aSociety signature on this, but if somebody don't like it, they can probably knockwith it down or something. I don't know exactly how that goes.
Historical C: In comparison to England you'd say that he Danish royalty has more power, because
English royalty is almost totallyinterview figure head?
I: Well, no, thenhistory if that's the case I'd have to say its the same. It's pretty much the same. But they're much more Minnesotaformal in the English, except for king Edward--was a very common,Oral everyday person. He's the one that gave his thrown up and married Wallace Winfield from America--a divorcee. And lost his--he lost everything. However, Queen
Elizabeth, his niece, did have him buried in the castle cemetery. He got his last resting place in England. But his mother, his own mother absolutely--the queen at the time- wiped him off She was astric ... --No--big, big [Arrogant]. Something on that order. She was big, big, big stuff And certainly everyone that was involved in the kingdom had to
125 L be--keep themselves up there--could not lower themselves to get to the common everyday [people]. There's a word for that.
c: After supper what did you do as a child in Denmark? Did you listen to the radio?
I: No--the newspaper.
C: Read comics? Frelander I: The "Kasenjarmer Kids." [Laughter] That was the only one I could remember. I think there was one other. Oh yes, there was "Darling Dumpling;"Inger Hans and Fritz--those were the "Kassejarmer Kids." And I think it was "Baby Dumpling." SocietyNo it wasn't "Baby Dumpling"--it was a little girl that looked like awith dumpling, you know. Oh, I can't get the name out. But there were two comic strips that I used to like. But, no, I remember only
playing my dolls at the time you know. Dishes--I loved dishes--pretty dishes. And I do to Historical this day. Ah, I love pretty dishes. I love to set a pretty table with beautiful dishes.
Always my favorite. I rememberinterview my real mother--my Aunt Viola--gave me a set of dishes.
They were my pride and joy and my brother Elof was a stinker--he broke some of them. He was a rascalhistory to say the least. I didn't like him too well. [Laughter] But, oh, I had my own doll--Goedda. I stillMinnesota got it to this day. I swear I'm going to spend the money and her fixed Oralup. It's going to cost a little bit, I know it is. But, then who's going to have her, whose going to fight over her. They're going to have to draw names over that one.
They'll all want her.
c: What type of dolls were they?
126 I: This one was a big doll. The head was a China [type doll]. This one isn't exactly like that. Although I did, when we came to America, Dad bought me a doll and he bought this little Johanna a doll--that Christiansen married this woman [and] had this little girl-
Johanna. Mine was "Mini" and I don't know whatever happened to Mini. I wasn't Mini
Pearl either. [Laughter] Just plain old Mini. I don't know whatever happened to her.
But Goedda, I still have Goedda. And all the kids I baby sat for over the years played with that doll. I should never have allowed that. They almost completely ruined her. But, urn, ... Frelander C: What kind of games were common for kids to play in Denmark? Inger I: Oh, Hinkenstein. Society with C: You can spell that later. [Laughter]
Historical I: And another one was, urn, oh what did they call that. You played it with pins. A regular pin, you know, only eachinterview pin had a pretty bead on top. What was that called? Oh,
I tell ya that was a game. They had a pin cushion--the bigger girls actually--they had beautiful pin cushions.history They had pins that had birds on the end. They had pins that just had like a pearl on the end.Minnesota Those pins were expensive. Then they had pins that had little, blackOral heads. And they were call the lice or something on that order or mites or something, you know. Well they were the only ones that I ever could have, because I lost everything--I lost them all. We had this game. We'd throw the pin--it went over a circle.
Ifit went within you'd win a pin. But, of course; mine never did his the circle. [Laughter]
And I lost everything I ever had. The only thing I ever won in a big pin. And I don't know how that ever happened. But it had a beautiful peacock on top, but half of it was broke off that's how come I got it. [Laughter] It was damaged beyond repair! [Laughter]
127 And that's how come ... What was left of it was still beautiful as far as I was concerned.
But, I always lost. But, they were very, very popular. But these pin games ... And then these girls had these big pin cushions and they had lined them up according to colors, so it was just like a rainbow of colors of pins that they had won. It was a little bit like, over here, marbles. You throw marbles. This was like the pins here. Was about on the same order as that. And the Hinkenstein, that was a stone about this size [holds up her hand to show a small stone]. It was flat on one side and then it was pretty figures on the. And then you would lay that on the floor, on the floor out on the cement, actually in the street, because at that time there was no traffic going through there either.Frelander And we would mark on the street a square, oh, about maybe say four feet by six feet, something like that. And in that we'd a make a marking down center then we'd makeInger two across. So there would about six holes and they'd be marked--two, three, five, four, whatever.Society And we'd throw this and hit one of those. And whatever one wewith hit, you know, we'd get so many points. Of course, I usually always lose them and I'd get a new one. We'd go uptown and get a new one. And, ah, but that was a fun game. I lost almost everything I ever got. It seems Historical like I was always the loser [laughter] at everything. I had a doll buggy. And in that I had a great big ball. I didn't haveinterview a doll at the time in there. I don't know where Goedda was
-she upstairs, so I didn't take her down. Otherwise I'd a lost Goedda. And I had this doll buggy I was wheelinghistory around. I suppose I couldn't have been too old, maybe five, maybe six, I don't know. And MinnesotaI had this great red doll in there in this doll buggy and I don't know what Oralother toys I had in there--wheeling around. And all ofa sudden a great big boy came along. It's funny, but you know when I'm looking at you [Chad, age 21], it was a big boy
something like you [laughter], blonde hair--took my doll buggy and took offwith it.
C: Did you ever see it again?
I: I didn't say anything. I didn't yell or anything .. He just took it.
128 [Tape three, side one]
... to see ifhe could find my doll buggy. But of course it was never found.
C: So you never saw it again? Frelander I: No, it didn't bother my that much. And what was it, I remember going with mother uptown [laughs]. I guess I must have been [laughs], I mustInger have been something. Oh, I ... this is absolutely ... She'd buy me something, you know, and we'dSociety come home and she'd ask me where it was. "Oh, I dropped that so andwith so back a ways," but never said anything when I dropped, just let it be. [Laughter] And I was always looking behind me. She'd have a hold of my hand. I'd always look behind me, never ahead. So I'd fall--I'd trip over Historical things [laughter], because I never looked up front. I always looked back. And I remember once. Oh this is embarrassinginterview ... But little girls underpants, for instance, were not made with elastic. They were made with buttons and button holes. Well, during the wartime [Worldhistory War I] there was no elastic to be had and they were made at that time like that, underclose were madeMinnesota like both for men and women actually. And [laughs] apparentlyOral that had come off and they had lace around them--they were pretty for a little girl. And, of course, it didn't bother me any--mine apparently had come loose and
dropped down. And I was trying to walk in those things and they were down around my
ankles. [Laughter] And a lady came up behind Mother and she said, "I think your little
girl is losing her underpants." [Claps her hands and laughs hysterically with Chad.] And I
hadn't said anything. Just tried to walk the best I could. She had my hand of course.
[Laughter] I must have been something else.
129 I remember once we went uptown and we had triple-deckers you know. Poor
Mother always had to go way up to the top, because that is where I wanted to sit.
[Laughs] c: Were they buses?
I: Buses, well streetcars.
C: Were they electric? Frelander
I: Electric. Inger And so we always had to go way up to the top, that's whereSociety I wanted to sit. And she obligingly always did this. [Laughs] You'rewith going to go to sleep. C: No, no. I'm having the greatest time. I could do this all day long everyday. I'mjust tired because of the lack of sleep. Historical
I: [Laughs] You'll have to gointerview take a nap this afternoon instead of going to work.
C: I probably willhistory do that. Where did yourMinnesota names come from? Oral I: They were typical Danish, like Mary or Ruth is in America.
C: Does "Inger" mean anything?
I: No, not that I know of There were a lot of "Inger Margrethes" in Denmark. In fact, when I came back there one of my cousins ... her sister was Inger, I was Inger, and her
130 daughter's name was Inger. Only her daughter's name was Inger Margrethe just like mine.
They didn't realize mine was Margrethe too. There were two Inger Margrethes. I don't know where Inger is from--name is Inger. Karen is a, a typical Danish name--Karen. It's pronounced Karn in Dane. Karen. Now that's typical Danish. And of course Thora,
Thorkild, all those are Danish names. I mean they're just like any, any language, I suppose, have got a ... the regular names.
C: Why was "Margrethe" popular? Frelander I: "Margrethe" that was among the royalty names. Inger C: Was she a really good queen? Society I: She's now. She's a queen now. She's Queenwith Margrethe now.
C: Is she older than you? Historical
I: Ah, no I would say she's youngerinterview than I am. I wonder if Queen Margrethe isn't King
Frederik's daughter. Now I'm trying to think King Christian was king when we were in Denmark. And,history of course, he was ... You know, they aren't queen or king for four years or six years--they're a kingMinnesota for as long as they're alive and then the next one becomes. So I think Oralhis--the crown Prince Frederik--was next. And then I think its his daughter that was Margrethe. So probably only three sets of kings and queens have been in my lifetime, see.
Its not like ... there's been a dozen presidents, you know, or more since we came to
America for instance.
C: She must be just barely younger than you?
131 I: She must have been [Frederik's daughter] I can't think of anyone that would have been in between there. King Christian, King Frederik, and Princess Margrethe.
C: Do you remember when the years of transition were?
I: No I don't remember when they died. I think Christian died after we got to America. I am a Christian too. [Laughter] C.c. is Christian too--Carl Christian [the son ofInger's cousins Tovee and Richard]. No, so, she's probably in her 60s anyway, I'm sure. But, oh, the royalty you know they were usually married later in life. They wereFrelander not young kids. They did not get married when they were just young kids you know. So apparently, maybe Frederik was maybe in his 30s or something beforeInger he got married. And there were usually .. .I don't know ... where the queen was from. Where was Societyshe from? I don't know. Was she from Norway? Was she from ... alwayswith from other royalties that they select their ... Like except, that in nowadays they do get them. See Princess Diane was not from a royal family--royal blood. But, so, see they have gone down a little bit. Charles--crowned Historical Prince Charles--is married to Diane--Princess Diane. But she was just from an ordinary family. She was a teacher. Ininterview fact she was a teacher oflittle kids just like your mother
[Carol]. Yea, she taught little folks. And that is where he met her. And he was allowed to become engagedhistory to her and later married her. But you see the difference between Wallace Win ... what theMinnesota heck was her name? Yea, it was Wallace something ... She was a divorceeOral and that was out. That was definitely out. There was no way they could accept her into to becoming later on a queen, you know. Ah, I think, see now, the wife of King
Christian, for instance, had she been alive would have been a queen, but not the acting
queen. I don't think, because Queen Elizabeth. Queen Mary was Queen Elizabeth's mother-in-law and she was not the acting queen. She was the wife to the former queen.
C: So Margrethe's husband is not active now?
132 I: Well he's, no he's not. But what I'm talking about is Queen Mary in England, her husband died and they had two sons--Edward and, ah, George--King George. King
Edward was the crowned prince and became the king. He's the one that fell in love with this commoner and could not be accepted as a king if he married her and, therefore, lost his throne. He lost his throne to his younger brother George, who became king, but he wasn't in very good health and didn't live too terrible many years as King George of
England. He had two daughters, no sons. So the oldest daughter became queen when he died, not his mother. His mother was still alive, but she did not becomeFrelander queen, one of her sons became the king when the dad died. Mother and father, the two sons. The one of them became king and lost it and the other one became Ingerking. The Queen Mary was queen because of .. her husband was the king, so she naturally became Societyqueen. But not an acting queen. But Elizabeth became the acting queen,with because she was the oldest daughter of King George ... Had King Edward been in there, apparently, probably never would have had any children because both ofthem were up in years and she [Wallace Winfield] didn't Historical have any children in the first place. So apparently, maybe didn't, wouldn't have any. And so they would have probablyinterview been childless. Then his crown would have gone to his niece, probably Queen Elizabeth still would have become Queen Elizabeth. That was oldest niece. Thathistory was his younger brother's. His younger would have been if he were still alive. But ifhe diedMinnesota then the niece would have become. Follow me? Oral c: I think so.
I: That's the same in Denmark.
C: Still in Denmark, but knowing you were coming to America, what were your expectations of America?
133 I: Before. Why it was just something out of fairy tale--a fairy tale. Going to America!
My land that was the only thing I could think about. Getting to school that first day, I
shouted it right out in the school on top of everybody else ... They were busy talking and I
yelled out "I'm going to America." Just like that and everything stopped.
C: Could you remember what you said in Dane?
I: Yea. "Yeske go to America"--[Get Dane]. Frelander
C: What did you picture the terrain to be? Inger Society I: What did I picture it? I just pictured it like youwith go into a fairy tale .. Denmark was full '-.., offairy tales. Hans Christian Andersen's was our fairy tale book author. And Denmark
had a lot of fairy tales. Everything around Denmark was a fairy tale and America certainly Historical had to be a huge fairy tale, because that was a great big country ... I had been to
Beeckawood once and the nextinterview door neighbors had company from America--that far away
land. That was very far away. It really had to be something, you know. But of course when I was smallerhistory I thought Germany was far away too--it had wild animals and everything else. That's Minnesotawhat I thought. When I came to America I thought Litchfield was a longOral ways offfrom Grove City. [Laughs] That's in your child's mind. See this is just like when they told me many times when we came to America, ob, on the boat--on
Helligalav. I could still see those long tables set up with food and there was always a huge
apple or a huge orange for desert. They didn't make deserts like we do now. That was
our desert--great big apple or a great big orange or a big banana; a big fruit of some kind.
Maybe grapes or something. But I remember these huge .. .I remember seeing them in the
grocery store in Denmark. And everybody always said to me, "ob, that's your childish
134 fantasy, you could remember them. You thought they were big." But they really were. I
have seen these huge things. And they remind me of what we had aboard ship--these huge
pieces of fruit, you know. Did I tell you about how everybody was sea sick coming over?
c: Yea, the Polish people stayed on one end. [Laughs]
I: Because they eat onions so bad you couldn't hardly stand the smell. Yuck.
C: How much did the trip over here cost? Frelander
I: That I have no idea. I don't know. Inger C: Do you remember the items you brought over with you fromSociety Denmark? with \., I: Yes, we had the sewing machine, of course. That was wrapped up pretty thoroughly. I
mean actually it wasn't wrapped up, except it was tied. Rope allover, you know, so Historical nothing could come off or falloff or anything. That top that you know comes on I rock in
that as a kid, by the way. I usedinterview to sit in that and Mother would be sewing. It was rather
fun to sit there and rock back and forth in that thing. [Laughter] You take a look at them when you get home.history I used to sit in that. I used to sit in that all the time! And I'd have a hand on each side and rockMinnesota back and forth. It was the funniest thing to sit in that and rock. Oral[Laughter] But, ah, we had a dresser. And you also have that one--a whole dresser. All our clothing, I mean not all our clothing, but a lot of clothing was in there, like, ah,
clothing that we wore and also sheets and pillow cases, towels, and stuff like that.
Everything that we could pack in there was in there. There is four or five drawers in there
and they were big drawers--the bottom ones anyway. The couple bottom ones were really
big drawers. And, ab, I can't remember; I do know that we had feather beds with us. A
couple of them. But now whether they were wrapped by themselves, because I don't
135 know how on earth they could have stuck them into the drawers and them we had room for anything else. So they must have come on the side. That I don't remember, but I do know big strapping irons went around this dresser came floating across. Then we had our suitcases. And my suitcase was one that Dad made. That little brown one I got at home yet, you know. I don't know what happened. Sometime when I moved somebody must have dropped something on it. It's cracked on one side and I don't know that can be fixed.
Maybe Ausie could fix it or something. He might be able to repair in such a way and then paint it over again, so it looks like it did, because that kind of a neat little. I carried pictures in that by the way. The pictures they wanted they packed Frelanderin that little suitcase and that was my responsibility. That was my suitcase. And then Fred had one. That was his responsibility. And Dad had a couple and I supposeInger Mother did. We each had suitcases to carry and then the clothes on our back of course. And,Society ah, that's about it. with C: So you were just over nine years old when you came to America? Right?
Historical I: Yea, I was nine in October and this was in December when we came over. Look at what its doing outside now. interview[Acknowledges the snow.]
C: Is it snow? historyMinnesota I: Yes,Oral it's snow.
C: Cool, I've missed it.
I: It was going to do that last night it said. Yea, I hope it doesn't get too bad, because if it does then I'm going to have to call Gene [or Jean] from here and I don't want you driving out on slippery highways and taking me to the bus depot.
136 C: I'd like to take you home ... and get pictures and make copies.
I: What pictures would you like?
C: The one with the chickens. A picture ofyou... The one you've got of you, your mother, father, and Fred.
I: I have one of myself, Mother, Father, Fred, and myself on our firstFrelander farm. I've got of my Dad and I in our garden in Denmark. You know we had a summer home in Denmark. IngerWe lived in Copenhagen and we had this little summer [home], just like they have a cottage at theSociety lake, you know. Only ours was a little summer home. It was a colony.with A colony is what they'd call them--of all little homes and a little garden joining it. And everybody on weekends, Sundays, ah, during the summer, we would go out there. We have a garden. We had tame rabbits. Historical And, I don't know who took care of them during the week. I don't know, because Dad certainly wasn't out there everydayinterview to feed them and take care of them. But, urn, that was a great event just to go out there. That was our Sundays. Actually most of the time that's where we wenthistory on Sundays. You know. It was within walking distance. And Dad, of course, and Fred wouldMinnesota drive up there on their bikes every so often. Mother never did learn Oralhow to ride a bike. [Laughter] She ran into a little bit of a light pole that was about this big. [Laughing she hold up her thumb and index finger about an inch apart.] She looked at that light pole and hit dead center. [Laughter] How she could ride a dumb bike ... And this thing was sitting like so, you know. I'll be darned if she didn't ride right smack dead center. I don't think it was thicker than a pencil. I don't know. [Laughter]
On a little bit of a rod. Dead center she hit it. Dad had a side cart on his, you know, like you see on a motorcycle. And that was mine.
137 C: How far was it from Rosendale to Grove City?
I: Oh, I would say maybe about five miles.
C: Do you remember how much the farm in Rosendale cost?
I: Farm. Oh we didn't buy it. We just rented it. We didn't buy of any time. We never could afford to buy any, but we rented our farms all the time. It wasFrelander a percentage. We rented it on shares. For instance, you would have a field of rye or barley, that wasn't to be fed to any animals--that was a cash crop. And we'd get Ingertwo-thirds and the landlord would get one-third. Society with C: What were your crops?
Historical I: Well, like I said to begin with we had nothing. They'd pin this title on Dad--"the pocket interview knife farmer. II That's what they pinned him with. That's all he had was a pocket knife and that's what he farmed with. But Dad was very handy. He could make things. If he had, if somebody hadhistory an old machinery that they didn't want out in the back--junk, you know. He could put it togetherMinnesota and make it work. And, ah, scythe he used instead of a lawnmower,Oral you know. He used a scythe, why that wasn't...He got an old scythe I guess that was partly broke off, you know, and the scythe was long you know. He didn't need a whole long one. He'd clean that with a smaller one. He'd pick up things that wasn't in use for other people and then the farmers around there would help him out a little bit by helping him with different things--to seed his grain or whatever. I don't know how he got the grain to seat in the first place. I don't know how he did it. So, it was barley and oats-
oats and barley and com. And corn, he'd cut down like I said almost like I said with his
138 pocket knife, you might say. He'd put half a dozen stalks together and tie them up by hand and .. .It was hard work!
c: Please describe a typical day in America. You have gone from being a city girl in
Denmark to being a country girl in America.
I: Dh, yea. I was all alone. And we came to this farm--had a beautiful big grove. That was really like a forest to me. And I used to love to go out in there and find a rock--a big rock. I didn't take me long to find out what was under that rock. ThereFrelander were ants. And it was something to behold to watch these ants. I would sit there for hours on time and watch these ants carry their eggs into the holes. And I hadInger this stone taken away. They had to scurry and get busy and move everything, so I would hurtSociety them you know. Well they didn't know I had no plans on hurting them.with I just wanted to watch them. And I sat there and watched all these ants and sometimes the eggs were three-times bigger than an ant was trying to pull that egg into the little hole that was in the ground. When you say Historical busy as a bee or busy as an ant--ant is a very little animal or little, I don't know what you call it .. .insect. Right. And theninterview I made a tree house, you might say, on the ground with twigs. I wave them just like we'd weave those little baskets in Denmark. I'd weave them in and out, youhistory know, until I got my walls. And I'd play house--alone. I was the company, I was also theMinnesota lady of the house. I also spoke English in a fashion you would neverOral believe. [Laughter) It sounded like so muchjibber jabberish to me and that's what I did talk. Because they would come and speak English to me and I'd tum around and talk
Dane to them. You know. Dh, I played grocery store. I would have dry sand for white sugar. I'd have wet sand for brown sugar. I'd have little tiny stones I would use for coffee beans maybe and each one I'd put in a container. And use spoons for the measuring cups.
Everything in those days were out on the counter. We would measure and put it in bags and stuff And ...
139 c: Would you do chores before school?
I: I did not do chores at that time. I'd go with Mother. Mother was the one that did the milking and I would go with her. No, I wouldn't do anything at that time. I mean, actually, I didn't do much of anything accept play at that time, [laughter] that I remember.
I would probably run errands or something like that, but there wasn't too many errands to run out there--probably get the cows or something. I remember I was supposed to and get the cows. They were way in the back pasture. In fact they wereFrelander up by the neighbors. And I went around by the road and all of a sudden two dogs came after me. I was deadly scared of dogs. I ran, I think literally, as fast as those dogsInger did. I managed to out run them. I don't know how I did it. I was like on wings. Mother Societywas standing by the farm yard laughing. She thought it was just too funnywith for words and I madder than a hoot owl. I was furious! I was absolutely furious. [Laughter]
Historical C: What was your school like? interview
I: Dh, that was a one room school house. And that was really fun. history C: First through eighthMinnesota grade? Oral I: Yea, and I talked Dane. My teacher was Dane. And I could talk Dane to her and she answered me in Dane. And then one day she says, "I can't do this anymore." She told me in Dane. "If you want that question answered, you'll have to go back to your desk and figure out how you're supposed to ask me that in English." I never did get that question answered, because I couldn't figure out to come with that in English. So I just never did get. I don't remember what it was. And so I never did get that question answered. And
140 from there on I had to struggle and try to figure out how to ask her my questions in
English. It was a definite thing that I had to do. There was no way out. She would not answer me if I asked her in Dane. And so I had to ask her in English. c: How long did it take to get fluent in English?
I: Well, you can figure it out for yourself I took the first and second grade the first year.
By the time I was finished with the first year I had finished the second grade. And the time I was ... and the second year I finished fourth grade level. So IFrelander made those first four grades in the first four years. So apparently I could speak English fairly good at the end to the second year. [Tape four, side four] ... to translate. InInger fact, I could translate that time much better than I can now, because my Dane was fluent and mySociety English was getting very good. So I could translate to Mother and Dadwith easier. Maybe a little easier than I could translate theirs into the English language. However, I managed to do that very good, so that you make out what I wanted ... Historical
C: Was the school first throughinterview eighth grade?
I: First throughhistory eighth grade, yea. But the fifth grade was hard then. In the fifth grade I got the history book. AndMinnesota that was my--that was the worst thing. I could not remember dates.Oral I couldn't remember presidents. I couldn't remember any of it. I'd sit there and my teacher knew that I came from Denmark. She knew I was Danish. That first teacher I got out there didn't know me. She had been there one year before that. And then there was a year between there that she was gone. And she came back the following when I was apparently in the sixth grade. And she said to me one day, she says, "I don't know why you can't do the same thing as the others." "Well," I says, "maybe its because I don't know English that well yet and I can't remember history. They were born here," so I says,
141 "a lot of that they heard they heard at home and I haven't heard any of this at home." So I says, "Maybe that was my ... " She was really angry at me. And, of course, I went home in tears. And Dad came up and her a good talking to in Dane, of course. She couldn't understand a word. [Laughter] But she got the meaning. [Laughter] He was just absolutely furious with her, because she hadn't...ah, raked me over the coals like that.
Because I was trying my best, but I just couldn't handle it, see. Because history was really bad news. But she's the one that I credited with the fact that I can speak English as well as I can. And she always took a pride in that. She died just a short time ago. And she was always so happy about the fact that I told her, you know, that FrelanderI credit her for that. She was proud as a peacock about that, because she said I could speak English better than a lot of people that were born in this country. The languageInger they used was definitely a very poor English, you know. And people that were born in thisSociety country could used worst English than I ever did, so she always prided herselfwith that it was because of her that I managed to do as well.
Historical c: What was her name? interview
I: Her name was Florence Mortenson or Florence Larson. Her married name I quess- Florence Mortenson-Larson.history But she was the one that had given me such a hard time that first year when I was there.Minnesota She also called me "Inga." She asked me what my name was and she'sOral "how do you spell it." And I says, "I-n-g-e-r." And a girl spoke up from the other end of the classroom. She says, "She does not. It's Inga and she spells it I-n-g-a."
And the teacher says, "Don't you know to spell you own name?" And meekly I said "No."
I could be not so meekly, but in this case I was very meek [laughter] and I says, "No, I just did." You know, "I just did." So she went to work and wrote down as Inga. And I was Inga from that day on. And oh, that's why I hate that name. I hate it! [Laughter] My name is Inger, not Inga. It wasn't until years later, we used to go down to her place for
142 <.." her birthday party. And she insisted I call her Florence now instead of Miss Mortenson or Mrs. Larson or something. I should call her Florence. "O.K.," I says, "you call me Inger,
not Inga. Inger is my name." [Inger softens her voice] "Ob, is Inger your name?" "Yes,
Florence," I says, "its always been Inger. I tried to tell you that." Not once, but several
times. And it was always Inga. It stayed to this day. Some of the people still call me
Inga. I don't let it ruffle me too much any more. [Laughter]
c: You kind of get used to it after a few years? Frelander I: After a while. [Laughs] A few years. Many, many, many years. C: So you were the only immigrant child at your school?Inger Society I: Oh, yes, definitely. with
C: Was it a one room school with how many students? Historical
I: One room school, from firstinterview through eighth grade. There was at one time we had 34
kids--one teacher. You know, they had a pretty good job! You know. To take care of that many kids,history you know. So many in first, so many in second, so many in third, and so on. Minnesota Oral C: How for was it from your house?
I: Oh! When I first came to this country. When I was Denmark it was like running
around the block. And there was my school. I lived here. I came up to the comer, went
down a block, over there--there was my school. A block, two blocks maybe at the most.
Two half blocks and one full block. I came to America and I had three miles to school.
143 c: Was it in town?
I: In the country. Rosendale. District 25. We lived here and there was almost up to here
and there was two miles across there. And there was another half a mile and I walked.
C: Did Fred go to the same school?
I: He went to school for just about a month or two at the most. AndFrelander that was the dead of winter and then he would drive old Mike. And I remember we had one of the sleds, you know, like the little red sled that Papa made [referring toInger the model sled Wally made], you know, with the one runner. Only these were regular runners youSociety know. We had this one. And this runner one day when we were going towith school we had a terrible storm and the \.,. drifts were like this you know. And, of course, so we promptly tipped over. [Laughs]
Well he got it all straightened out again and we got going again. And then the runner Historical tipped over so it was upside down. [Laughter] That poor Mike had a struggle with that
[Laughter] until we got to schoolinterview and some man could fix it for us. And then poor Mike
had to stand up there all that whole day while we were in school. Why that was a little
hard on horses I believe at those times. historyMinnesota C: HadOral Fred finished the eighth grade in Denmark?
I: Oh, yea. Now, had he finished? Or was he at the beginning of the eighth grade I think.
I think he was just finishing. But he was an excellent student. He was number...In school
in Denmark we were seated according to our ability. I shouldn't ever tell you this, because
a again your Grandma [Inger] was kind of at the foot of the class. [Laughs] My brother
was always at the head ofthe class. We were sorted according to the ... He was either
144 number one, number two, or number three. That's how smart he was. Well where was I!?
At the end of the class, wither at the very foot or at the next one. [Laughter] My best
mend and I we changed places back there. [Laughter] And Mother said to me one day,
"I know you can do better if only put your mind to it." You see your ability [spoken to
Chad] didn't come from me. [Laughs] Although I will have to say I could do it if I
wanted to, I just didn't have the ... Oh, because over here apparently I did much better,
because I did pretty good on the top of the my class most of the time, except in History.
When I got older actually is when what I did, because I used to tell the girls I would never make it in high school. And said, "You could just as well as anybody."Frelander But anyway Mother said, "You know that." I don't know if I had seen a doll that I really wanted so bad. She says, "You do better next time. You get yourInger grades up you know. Get yourself up. " We had three rows as I remember--three double Societyrows like this ... ofkids. And I don't know how long the rows were. "Andwith if you can yourself up, you know, I'll (..,. get you that doll for you." Well I must have been lazy too. [Laughs] I'm saying too
much for myself, am I!? My poor grandson sits here and figures Grandma being so stupid. Historical [Laughter] I got here from, wherever it was, one of the lower ones back here, down here
somewheres you know clearinterview up to the front in the middle row! [Laughter] So you see
that was all it needed. Well of course, that doll was getting old I went right back here again. [Laughter]history It was kind offunny. It was funny. But you know I..apparently, apparently, I don't know.Minnesota It's really funny. But you know the kids must have been fairly goodOral except my poor [mend] Edith was always the very last one. And she actually could not get things. I guess, I could, I guess when I wanted to. That's why I guess my teacher
never got after me. They never. But I'll never forget poor Edith. Her braids pulled by the
teacher! Her ears got pulled by the teacher. She got slapped. She got...she was abused.
And she was such a good kid. But she just could not get it through her head. And then
one day our teacher brought in, we must have been in the second grade at this time,
because I never did make .. .1 started the third, but that's all. She brought a first grade in to
145 \r show he up on the black board in arithmetic. Oh arithmetic ... Arithmetic is what I'm thinking about, because even in Denmark I was a whiz at that. Arithmetic I never had no
problem. But you see it was my reading that kept me back here I guess. No, numbers, I
was good in that, but that didn't get me up here. It was my reading. Actually I guess the
only two subjects we had were reading, writing, and arithmetic you know--the three of
them, you know. My writing and my arithmetic was O.K. It was my reading that I
couldn't get myself together with. So that's why, ah ... But she couldn't do any of them.
And she was abused because of it. And this little girl that was brought in to show her up, you know, in front of everybody. And didn't help any. So she wasFrelander literally pulled by her ear clear up to the next class ups the stairs. This teacher was a bully. And she pulled her by her hair--her red hair. She had red hair just like John'sInger [Carol's eldest son]. Long braids. She pulled her up. I have a picture of her and myself Society with \r C: What was her name? Historical I: Edith. But I can't remember her last name. Andersen! Andersen! Yes, Edith
Andersen. interview
C: O-n or e-n? historyMinnesota I: E-n.Oral Definitely. E-n definitely.
C: This is in Grove City?
I: No, this is in Denmark. This is Denmark. Oh no in America I did O.K. except in my
English language. It took me a while to get on to that. But once I got onto that I didn't
have any problem either in my reading or in my arithmetic or anything else, except my
146 history. In the fifth grade that's when I started having problems--in history. But otherwise
I managed O.K. I recited long compositions: I have one at home. I'll show you some day. I'll show you some of that stuff I've got from my school days yet. I've got some of that. I got a composition there--"The Little Match Girl," for instance. We had spelling
B's in America. And I was entered into them almost at once with the rest of the kids. And
I fell down on the very first word that was put to me. You know what it was? "Gnaw."
And I spelled it n-a-w. Very, very smart remark. I mean it was a very intelligent remark.
Gnaw. How was I to know there was a "k" in front of it? You know, same way "know." But gnaw I went down on it. No "g"--g-n-a-w. It was know that'sFrelander "k." Yea, was I to know there was "g" in front ofthat--gnaw. Well, but we had words like that in Denmark too. Yea. But, ah, so I went down on that. But I had Ingerthis composition. And I can't exactly how many pages were there. Those pages was written Societyclose by and I think I had three to four pages written on both sides. Andwith I couldn't recite that without looking at it, you know. I had to recite the whole thing. The whole thing. And I did. Now that I could do, but I couldn't spell "gnaw." G-n-a-w! Yea. Historical interview c: When did you start dating?
I: When did I historystart dating? Oh, ho, ho. That's another story. Maybe I shouldn't repeat that either. Oh, yea. IMinnesota was past my eighteenth birthday, because Dad was very, very strict.Oral And you see my mother had gone wrong, so he figured I would go wrong. That type of thing. So I was not allowed to go out with boys--period.
C: What about Fred?
I: Oh Fred could go as he darned pleased! And this is what infuriated me, because he got his girl pregnant before they were married. Wow! Yes. And he came from a very
147 <.." illegitimate family. But I was sort of the outcast. So I followed in my mother's footsteps, which I didn't. And he did, not me. Oh I'm sure it didn't make him feel very happy about
it, you know. And, ah, I think that that first baby I think they lost that one. If it was lost
before they were married or what it was, but it must have been, because I think Kathy was
born after they would have been married. I don't know if they had even been married a
full year or so, but the baby must have, the first one must have died or. . .1 don't know what
happened. But anyway, I do that he went astray. I'm not holding it against him, because a
lot of people do go astray. I mean nobody can point fingers at anybody, because you never know where it's going to happen and when it's going to happenFrelander and who it's going to happen to! Inger c: But did he [Grandpa Jensen] hold it against you? Society with I: No, he never did--openly. But he just that because my mother had gone astray, that she
was probably ... She wasn't the only one that went astray. A lot of people went astray. His Historical own folks went astray. My dad was almost from a, a no marriage--period. His dad
brought him up. Right. interview
c: Oh, really, was his dad ever married? historyMinnesota I: HisOral dad and mother were not married.
C: Did he ever get married?
I: His and dad and mother both got married to different people. And he lived with his
father, that's how come I know all the Jensen's, see. But I can't remember, we were
talking about it the other day. I do not remember if my grandmother had any children with
148 her husband. I don't remember, because all the ones I remember are on his dad's side; on
Grandpa Jensen's side. On my Grandpa, not on Dad, on my dad, on by grandpa's side,
that would be your great, great grandpa, wouldn't it?
c: Yea.
I: Right. Because my husband was you grandpa and my dad would be your great
grandpa. His dad would be your great, great grandpa. Right. c: Do you remember your first date? Frelander
I: My first date. [Laughs] My first date. Went with MartinInger Hedke, but that wasn't my first date, I don't think. To be honest with you I don't rememberSociety my first date--you did I go with. I guess my, ah .. .! can't remember if itwith was, .. .it wasn't with Wally. But my first \..., love I guess I should say was Martin Hedke. [Laughter] I don't remember. .. Historical C: How old were you? interview
I: I was past eighteen. history C: How old was he? Minnesota Oral I: He was just about the same age as I was. He was real neat guy. You would have liked
him.
C: How'd you guys meet? The same school?
I: No, I think I met him through a girlfriend.
149 L c: Well you would have been done with by school by then?
I: Oh, yes.
C: How old were you [when you finished school]?
I: Sixteen. But you see ordinarily I should have been done when I was fourteen, but you
see I lost, not only I started you know, I really didn't have, you know ... Well actually my school began actually not--I started my third year in Denmark and Frelanderthen I didn't go to school until after the first of January. And then it was in America. And that was just until spring. So, O.K., actually, apparently she put me from Ingerthe first grade through the second grade in those first few months. And in the second year I took Societythe third and fourth grade. with C: And that was with Meta Madsen?
Historical I: Meta Madsen. First two grades. interview
C: And then it was the other one? history I: [Yes.] Once I had gottenMinnesota the language a little bit hand, you know, so I could go throughOral these little books you know. Ned Took his Dog for a Walk, and all this sort of stuff, you know. [Laughter] Then I got into the second and that wasn't more than that.
And as far as arithmetic was concerned, as long as I could, you know, that followed
through from Denmark, you know. So that was no problem. So she just pushed those
first and second grade there. So I actually started the third grade when I got to Grove
City. So third grade the first half and fourth the second half So I finished the fourth
grade at the end of that.. .
150 C: Is Florence Mortenson-Larson e-n or o-n?
I: No, their o-n.
C: What you and your girlfriends do for fun during your teen age years?
I: Oh, talk about boys. I would say. [Laughter] Like anybody else, I suppose. [Laughs]
No we had games, we had lots of games. We played croquet. We played tag. We played ... we had different games we played when we were growingFrelander up. Played ball a lot. In school we played baseball a lot. And, ah, different ball games. Inger C: What was your first job? Society with I: What was my first job? I suppose, urn, my first real job was .. .I stayed .. .I went to ... Oh wait a minute, my very first job I guess, it was always house. But then I stayed with a lady Historical in Grove City, she was real rich. So she wanted me actually just chauffeur he around.
Apparently I was able to driveinterview at that time.
C: How old were you? historyMinnesota I: I supposeOral I must have hit my eighteenth birthday, by that time, because Dad would not let my out of the house, until I was old enough so he couldn't have his thumb on me.
[Laughs] After that one then I started to date you know. Oh, I went with another boy-
Lester Shallebarker was one of my first. Lester Shallebarker, Martin Hedke. Oh, Melvin
Nelson I think was my very first. Come to think of it. Good grief I had almost forgotten about him. I had quite a few fellows that I dated. [Laughter] They were real nice guys,
151 (., all of them. Real nice ... And Delbert Fisher. I went with him for a while. In fact, he was
sure has going to marry me. He asked ...
c: Really?
I: Oh, yes. In fact, his sister's girl was giving me stuff that I could put in my hope chest,
because they were sure he was going to marry me. I wasn't too sure. [Laughter] And
then I came to Litchfield to work. I came to Litchfield to work. I work in a house taking care of two older people. Frelander
C: What year? Inger Society I: Oh, this must have been about...When did wewith get married? We got married in '32. This must have been in 1930, I suppose ... worked for this older couple. And I was friends
with a girl there. Her dad owned the Goody Shop. The Goody Shop was a restaurant. Historical And her and I were very good friends and she met these fellows from Atwater, that she
wanted to introduce me to. interviewThere was George and Wallace Frelander and there was Adolf
Engen and, ob, oh I think it was Magness 10hnson--Nelson--Magness Nelson. Those four
guys came to town one day. I was there. And she introduced me to them. historyMinnesota C: WasOral this in Litchfield?
I: This was in Litchfield by the Goody Shop. And then I had to back to where I worked
you know. So Wally says, "We'll take you home." Well I thought Norma [Inger's friend]
knew them real well so I thought, "Well, it's alright." You go with four guys. Well this is
bad news. At that time you couldn't actually sit side-by-side. In these cars were room for
four people. That was it--four people--no more. So I sat in Wally Frelander's lap
152 [laughter] going over to my place! I had a date with that Pat Peterson--was another one
of my friends--Pat Peterson. I had quite a few. [Laughter] I tell I have more than that if I
could think of them, but I can't think of them right now. Pat Peterson. And you know
Wally made a date for a certain night, you know, ifI'd go out with him. And I thought,
"Well, well, yea, O.K., O.K." So after he left I thought, "Oh my word, I've already made a
date for that night." I got two dates for that night. [Laughs] And there was no phones,
you know, to call anybody you know. We didn't have phones or nothing. So I thought,
"Ob, I hope Pat gets here first. I hope Pat gets here first. I hope Pat gets here first. I don't know the other boy. I don't even remember his last name. " Frelander[Laughter] That was Frelander, but I couldn't remember that. That's too long. I couldn't remember that. [Still laughing] But Pat didn't make it. I don't know if Pat everInger did make it, because I never saw Pat after that. Wally came first, so I went out with and wishedSociety that Pat would have come first. I was hoping they wouldn't both getwith there at the same time. [Laughter] Then I (..., would have had trouble!
Historical c: So where were you staying at? interview
I: I staying at Peter Anderson's. I was working at Peter Anderson's. history C: So when Pat showedMinnesota up he thought you just stood him up? Oral I: I presume. I presume. Or maybe he went up to the house and maybe old Mrs.
Anderson told him I went out with somebody else. I don't know. [Laughs] I presume he
went up to the house. I didn't find out. But he no doubt I went out with somebody else.
I never did see him again and he was a real neat guy. He looked something like you did.
Blonde hair, curly blonde hair.
153 c: Big nose?
I: Yea. [Laughs] He was real nice. He was real nice! Yes, I did a thing once ... that ah, I was going back from uptown. I had been uptown on day. And this car pulled up looked just like Pat's car and he says, "Want a ride back?"--exactly what he said. And he looked like Pat! I didn't take too close a look at him. I got in the car--"my gosh, it's not Pat."
[Laughs] "Hey," I says, "wait a minute," I says. "You're not Pat." "No," he said, "I didn't
say I was." [Laughter] Well I says, "Stop and let me out." "No," he says, "we'll take a trip out around Lake Ripley." I says, "No," I says, "you're not Pat,Frelander you're not my friend. I made a mistake." I says, "Well you let me out!" I says, "on top of that, I bet you're a married man!" And he looked married. [Laughter] I betInger he was. "No," he says, "we're going out around the lake." And I thought, "Oh, boy, I'm in trouble.Society [Laughs] I am in trouble now. Boy, I should heed my Dad a littlewith bit. [Laughter] And watched myself a little bit. Here, I'm in deep trouble." But we went out around and he said, "Where do you work?" And I told him. He dropped me off. "See," he says, "can I pick you up some Historical other time?" "No," I says, "you can't pick me up some other time!" [Laughs] I never did see him again. I don't know interviewwho he was. I have no idea who he was. Isn't that terrible. I
should look more than that before I go into some body's car, but I didn't. Dumb me.
[Laughter] And that was it. historyMinnesota C: RememberOral the stock market crashed on October 29, 1929. What were you doing when you heard about it?
I: I don't remember what I was doing, but I do remember there was Brene Johnson--the owner ofBrene and Johnson--killed himself There were so many people that killed themself Oh.
154 C: You mean in Litchfield?
I: That was in Litchfield, but not too many in Litchfield killed themselves.
C: Were you in Litchfield in 1929? When did you leave home?
I: Well, let's see now. How old was I when I in 1929? I was eighteen. I was probably in
St. Paul Park. I worked in St. Paul Park at a great big dairy farm. Frelander C; Is that down here? Inger I: Yea, on a great big dairy farm. Society with C: Did you leave home when you were eighteen? Historical I: I left, yes, I left home and I answered this ad. Somebody you wanted a girl to work on interview a big dairy farm. Mr. and Mrs. Woodward--very prominent dairy people. They had
Charles, and what was it the other. They had two boys and a girl--Eleanor and Charles. And what in thehistory heck was the other guy's name? The oldest one. And Mr. and Mrs. Woodward and they hadMinnesota two hired mans and I supposed to help to cook and to clean, help to doOral this, help to do that. And they were real nice people. I went on the train to St. Paul and I really felt lost--completely. I'd never been away from home before. See this must have been '29. And my brother and Helen and Fred met me and brought me to their house.
C: Where did they live?
155 I: St. Paul. He worked for Tilden's--a big produce company. He also worked on a street
car. I don't know which one he was working--I think he worked at Tilden's at the time.
And, ah, he also worked at the St. Paul livestock yards we worked there also--the meat
packing in St. Paul he worked there. He worked at some place, maybe that is where he
worked first. They weren't too well off at the time anyway. Tilden's, when he worked at
Tilden's he became better off, because he got better pay. But anyway, I went there and
Mr. Woodward was supposed to pick me up. And I remember him come and pick me up.
He had a real nice car. Nice looking man, but he was alone. And I wasn't too fond of that either. .. we drove forever. .. .1 thought we'd never get to where weFrelander were supposed go. So I was a little bit concerned about that. I didn't know who he was. I knew he was this Mr. Woodward, whatever that was you know. But...And I Ingerbrought...His wife, urn, looked older than he. She wasn't, I guess she just looked older. She wasSociety real nice. And they actually, she treated [me] just like one of her ownwith kids. She was very concerned about <.,. everything I did or didn't do. Yea, I had a real nice place there when I was there .... [Tape ends] Historical interview
[Tape five, side one]
historyMinnesota I: ... OralPark. Newport. Was it Newport? Well, I remember going on of the next towns too ... that's where I was going to catch my bus to go to St. Paul to see my brother and his
wife. And I walked there. You know, you didn't often get a ride to anything, but my day
off. Thursday. And I walked to Newport, or whatever it was. No it wasn't Newport. It
was another one next to St. Paul Park. Anyway, I walked there. And a truck asked me if
I wanted a ride. They too were .. .1 ran into nice people all the time, there was no problem.
[Laughter] And they brought me there and dropped me off there so I got the bus. And
156 after I came back I told Mrs. Woodward about that and she was absolutely furious that I
dared get into a car with a couple men in there! Oh she was furious. Well, I let that rub
offmy shoulders and got over that. But anyway, I went to meet Helen that day. We were
supposed to meet at the .. .it was ah. Oh, that store is no longer there. Oh, what was the
name of that? It wasn't Donaldson's. It was on of the bigger department stores.
C: Dayton's?
I: It wasn't Dayton's. Frelander
c: Sears? Inger Society I: It wasn't Sears. No, it was a store that's notwith there anymore.
C: Woolworth? Historical
I: No, no. interview
C: It's nothing that exists anymore at all. historyMinnesota I: No,Oral I guess it doesn't exist anymore. It was Aquarion or something. Some big store, a great big store. Anyway, I was supposed to meet her there at the flower...there was a
corner where there had a lot of flowers. So I was supposed to meet her there. So I went
there and I waited and I waited and I waited and I waited. This was morning so, of
course, I didn't have any lunch. I waited and she still didn't come. We didn't know,
apparently she didn't know any more than I didn't know. She told me, you know, she
stood at another corner also with flowers in that same store. It was a huge big place. She
157 stood there until about two o'clock. Then she finally went home thinking I wouldn't make
it. And I stayed there until about that time, because about three o'clock is when by bus
left again for St. Paul Park. There we stood at each a flower place all day. Waited for the
other one; never did get there. [Laughter] Then we did apparently did have a phone,
because it seems to me that she called my place, or else they didn't have a phone, she went
to a pay phone and called and by that time I had gotten back. And I told her where I'd
been and she told me where she'd been all day. And that took care of my day off that day.
[Laughter] Then I came in once when I had a day off. This is dumb too. I did a lot of dumb things. Boy you have a stupid Grandma. [Laughter] I'm clumsyFrelander ...
c: you shouldn't stuff this will end up in the paper. Inger Society I: Oh, no, don't you dare put it in the paper. Youwith can cut all that stuff off. All that stuff ~ that I've been telling you. Just cut all these that you're not proud of--cut them off. [Laughter] Anyway, I went to a show [Laughs] and I brought my ticket, promptly Historical dumped it in my purse and went in. And he hollered for me to come back. Wondering
what, "I'd paid my ticket, whatinterview do you want me to come back for?" "Want your ticket."
"My ticket," I had forgotten I had dumped it in my purse. [Laughs] "Yea, didn't you one out there.: "Oh,history that," I had dumped it in my purse, so I had to stand there and scrape around looking for thatMinnesota dumb ticket I had dropped in my purse right it the bottom of it. [Laughter]Oral ... Well, they were honest mistakes. I guess most of them, but. Not any of them I planned on making.
c: Did you have ajob while you were still living with your parents--before St. Paul Park?
I: Well, I think I worked for a neighbor doing housework.
158 C: Okay. Fred, did he got to school in America?
I: Just a couple months. He got to be a business. He had a station, a gas station and garage over on, ah, over in St. Paul. I can't remember [Fades out] ... over by Higheson.
They lived on Higheson.
C: It might come to you later. They usually do.
I: Yea. Right. It sure does. Frelander
C: How old was he when he got married? What year wasInger it? Society I: Oh I don't know. Let's see now. Kathy is what,with Kathy is four years older than Gloria. Okay. Figure it out. Gloria was born in '34. We were married in '32. She was born in
'34. She is four years older than Kathy. They must have just gotten married in '29. Historical interview C: Aunt Gloria's four years older than Kathy?
I: Kathy's fourhistory years older than Gloria. So she was born then in '30. So they have been married in '29. And thatMinnesota must have been the same year that I came down there then. Oral C: When did [he] move off the farm?
I: Oh, maybe. Let's see now. Yea, it must have been. When did he move off the farm?
He never actually lived with his folks after we came to America. He just. .. he was home
foe a while over north of Grove City when we lived there off and on. And then they--
159 something happened and they became unfriends and they didn't know anything where he was for a couple years.
c: Oh really?
I: Yea. Nobody knew where he was. He was working north of Litchfield on a farm, but nobody knew that. c: When did Fred become a citizen? Frelander
I: Ah, that I'm not sure. He was a citizen before I was IngerI think. You see when did I become a citizen? What year did I become a citizen, now whenSociety I? Let's see now. with c: '37 or '38? Historical I: Yea. I was. Yes. I think he was probably a citizen, gee.... interview c: Being older he might have applied for it early. history I: Yea, !think so. Minnesota Oral C: When he got here?
I: No, not when he got here, that early. But I think before he got married around that time when he got married I think maybe he became a citizen.
160 C: When did your parents move off the farm?
I: When did they move off the farm? I suppose actually you'd have to figure it when we moved on. When, ah, before De was born--she was born in '35--we moved up north of
Grove City from Frelander's. We lived at Frelander's when we were first married. And then we moved up to Grove City in '35. And so we bought out Grandma and Grandpa.
So '36 is when Grandpa went to Denmark. The summer of'36. No, no, the summer of
'35. We must have moved out there the early part of '3 5 and bought them out in '35 and, because De wasn't born until October and she wasn't born and he left.Frelander So he went to Denmark in '35. And he, because De wasn't there until after he come back. They stayed with us for a while, both Grandma and Grandpa. GrandmaInger stayed with us all summer. And then they stayed with us for a while after he came back fromSociety Denmark. And they took a job as caretakers for Kiddelson, south ofwith Grove City. So they were there for a while before they moved to Litchfield. Historical C: And when did they die? interview
I: In '56. One in April and one in December. history C: So they lived in LitchfieldMinnesota after they moved from the Kiddleson's? Oral I: Yea.
C: How were you hurt personally by the Depression? Because I know you weren't rich to go into the Depression. Did you even notice that there was a Depression for you personally?
161 I: Yea, no, it seemed like we had Depression from the time we came to America. Yea.
We didn't really ... We managed to scrape up enough food to live and we had done that
from the time we came to America. So Depression, didn't. .. And then after we got
married, then after we moved north of Grove City, and we took a--we had a big load then
to pay all that back, you know, because we owed the landlord that. And when we left the
farm we had $132, three kids, one coming, and a car. And we moved to Litchfield. Wally
got a job right away. So we never depended on anybody else. We took care of ourselves.
He got a job right away at Land 0' Lakes. Frelander C: Could you please give us a chronological order of what happened to you in the '30s? You moved out of the house in '29 and went to the farmInger ... Society I: Wait a minute, I was married in '32. But I was,with yes, I came back to Litchfield after I (." worked at St. Paul Park. I worked in Litchfield. I was back home for a while, then I got a
job in Litchfield. So I was back and forth then, until I got married in '32. Historical
C: October sixteenth? interview
I: October seventeenth. historyMinnesota C: Seventeenth,Oral sorry. [Laughs] It slipped.
I: On my birthday, my twenty-first birthday. And then, ah, we lived at Grandpa
Frelander's for a while. We lived there until Gloria was born at Grandpa Frelander's place.
C: What was the date?
162 l.,. I: March 29, 1934. Yea, right. And then we moved to Grove City and bought Grandma and Grandpa out [Inger's
parents]. E. b. Stewart sponsored that. I mean he paid for it. He was our landlord and
then we paid him. E.B. Stewart.
C: Was that the he'd get one-third, you'd get two-thirds arrangement?
I: That was also on the same management. Yea. Right. It was on share--on shares. And we moved there in the, it must have been the early, early, early, earlyFrelander spring of'35. And then we lived there ... until early '42. So it was before Bud was born that we moved to Litchfield. He was born in Litchfield. Inger Society C: So you lived on the farm until '42. Didn't youwith live in Hudson for a while?
I: This was after we were married. Before Gloria was born. Historical
C: That you went to Hudson?interview
I: We went tohistory Hudson and worked there for... We were gone for about, well we were gone for less than a yearMinnesota and then we went back to Frelander's. Oral C: Now is that right after you were married?
I: Shortly after. Yea. I think we were married, we were married in October and I think
this was probably in the spring. Yea.
C: And you work on a farm for $2 a week?
163 I: Yea, no it was in January come to think about it, because it was very cold there, very cold. Yea. We work there--$8 a month, both of us. c: Together?
I: Actually I didn't get anything, just my room and board and Wally was the one that got
$8 a month. About four [or] five in the morning 'til ten at night.
C: Was that the same for you? Frelander
I: It was the same. Inger Society C: Well, you may have been up early to cook themwith breakfast?
I: Well, they went out to do chores and then I could make breakfast while they were Historical gone. And it always consisted of oatmeal and muffins and stuff like that. Hot oatmeal, muffins, frenchtoast, or eggs,interview or whatever--stufflike that.
C: Then Aunt Gloria was born in Grove City? historyMinnesota I: GloriaOral was born in Atwater--south of Atwater. Grandpa's. We went back to Grandpa Frelander's from Hudson. Back to Grandpa Frelander's.
C: Were you they born in a hospital or on the farm?
I: They all were born at home ...
164 '-..,. C: Uncle Bud?
I: Yes he was born at home too. Actually he was going to be born in the hospital. But,
ah, he was born at night...four o'clock in the morning. And, ah, Wally worked for Land 0'
Lakes at the time and he was on the truck. It was a rainy night. And, ah, I supposed to
have call him, but I didn't in time. I was supposed to put a light in the window so he could
see, because he always drove by that, but I didn't do that either. And I didn't even unlock
the door, because I didn't think of any of these things [laughs] at that time. Frelander C: Your mind was a little preoccupied? Inger I: Right. I don't know how I managed to call the doctor, but I Societydid manage to call him. So he got the doctor and the nurse. But they didn'twith come until after Wally was there. The '-..,. reason Wally was there wasn't because I had the light or because I called him, but it was
raining and cold and he had forgotten a jacket--a extra jacket, so he came home to get Historical that. So he came home and unlocked the door and got in. [Laughs] All that happened,
see. That was really more thaninterview I could sense, because it wasn't anything was--he wasn't
called and he didn't have any idea, you know. So, Buddy was born that morning about four o'clock. And,history ah, he took Carol. Let's see now, Carol--she was three years old .. .I think he brought the twoMinnesota girls over to Grandma and Grandpa's and I think he brought CarolOral to Dassel. She stayed with Florence and Clarence down there for a week or so ... O.K.
C: You went to the Frelander farm after you were married, right?
I: Yea.
165 C: And then to Hudson and back?
I: Yea. We went to Hudson and back.
C: And then to Grove City?
I: From Frelander's we went to Grove City in early '35 and we stayed there until early '42.
C: But guys weren't always farmers though? Frelander
I: Wait a minute. There was one time. Let's see now. IngerOh, yea, O.K. we haven't gotten to that. Society with C: When did Papa work for Land 0' Lakes? Was he a delivery man?
Historical I: No, he drove a milk truck. interview
C: So he went to the creamery? history I: Yes. He worked forMinnesota the creamery. Oral C: And this is Grove City?
I: Litchfield.
C: Litchfield--this is for Litchfield. But you lived at Grove City at the time?
166 ~ I: No, we lived in Litchfield. On Litchfield Avenue South in a house on the end of the
street from where we used to live in the old house. He [Bud] was born in that house at
the end of the street--Litchfield Avenue.
C: Oh, I remember that--right by the railroad tracks!
I: Right. Right. Right.
C: Wasn't mom [Carol] born there too? Frelander
I: Nope she was born in Grove City on the farm north ofInger Grove City. Society C: But she lived there? with
I: She lived there. Historical
C: Could you describe the farminterview complex in Grove City--the farm buildings at your farm?
I: Yea. They historywere pretty close together. The barn was from here over to the house over there [points to a houseMinnesota across the street about thirty to forty yards away.] The chicken coupOral was just like this house here from the house [points to the house next door about ten to fifteen yards away]. And, ah, we had you know, we had a storm while we were there
while part of it fell down, you know.
C: Was that during the Depression?
I: That was why, yea I would say so. I suppose so. A tornado hit, picked the chicken
167 coup up, you know, set back off the foundation about three feet right off the foundation.
Set it down again. Not a single window was broken in there. c: Isn't that weird?
I: That's weird. But it took our brutas shack and dumped it up in no man's land.
[Laughter] Broke all the fences through there. The cows got out and went clear up to
Kingston, I think it was. Frelander c: How many cows? Inger I: Oh about a dozen. But one left in back, because it got hit bySociety the brutas shack as it went and couldn't walk. So that one was left back. withThe silo went. Half of the barn went. Our [house] was moved off the foundation a little bit. We were gone. I had gone in for an appointment at the doctor's. At the doctor's. Historical interview c: What year was this?
I: This was afterhistory we moved. This was after the girls--Carol was just a little girl. This is when we moved. This Minnesotais after we moved up there. That's before Buddy was born then. Oral C: So this would have been '40? During World War II?
I: It must have been '41 I suppose.
C: Before World War II--the summer of'41?
168 I: I have to think. What was I in the hospital for? I had an appendix operation. This was in '40. It must have been '40. Carol, no wait a minute. Carol was wait a minute. Carol was born in '39. This had to be '41. She must have been a couple of years old. Yea.
C: How big was your house?
I: '41--this was really '41. This was a great big--it used to be the livery barn--the livery barn in Grove City where they kept horses and stuff It was made into the house. It was all sided and everything, but only one wall. No storm windows. That'sFrelander where the snow was laying half ways in the kitchen floor every morning when we got up. The tea kettle was froze solid every morning. That was the year that DeInger was a baby. Society C: What was her birth date? with
I: De was born October 22, 1935. Historical And, ah, that was ah, yea. That was, urn '35. And it was so cold all the time. We had green wood. interview
Wally went to Lake Lillian to pick up wood once. He had bought some wood down there. Ithistory was all green. He drove that team of horses--twenty-one below, just a jacket on. He took offMinnesota early morning, went across to four with sleigh with of way he was goingOral to drop off south of Atwater at his brother's. He got only as far as Ed Malquist's over there and he had to take half of the hay and throw it in the ditch, because the horses couldn't handle, because there was no snow. Just cold, cold, cold, cold. But it was enough snow so he did have the sleigh, but there wasn't enough, there was many bare spots that the horses couldn't pull a load. And he went clear to Lake Lillian. And it stayed twenty-one below all day. Never moved in inch up. It was still twenty-one below at night. I had the two little girls. Gloria was just a year and a half when De was born. I
169 couldn't leave the house. I didn't dare to leave the house and I couldn't take them with out it that kind of weather. And, ah, Gloria hurt. She had a lot of tooth ache when she was a baby. I was walking the floor with her and wondering when he would be coming home.
He had crossed and accrossed to Grandpa Frelander's and it was still twenty-one below, but now it was night and felt even colder. And Grandpa had one of those big fur coats, you know that he told him to put on. He had supper at Grandpa Frelander's then. And then he started out from down and he had one of Grandpa Frelander's big coats on now over his jacket. So that helped him. But of course his hands were like--stiffer than a board holding on those lines, you know. Pat and Pearl, two of ourFrelander steady horses at the time. Beautiful horses and good workers. Pearl was a beautiful horse and sturdy. I listened. It was still. And I could hear. I kept on openingInger the front door to listen. And all of a sudden I heard horses snort. I could hear the horse snorting.Society And I knew it had to be him. Nobody else was out. It was ten o'clockwith at night. No chores had been done yet, because I couldn't go out. I couldn't leave the house and I didn't dare to take the kids. I didn't dare to leave the house for fear of fires. And finally it closer and closer and it was Historical him. Those horses were white with frost from sweat that frozen on their bodies. The icicles were about this long [holdsinterview her hand up over her head to indicate long icicles J hanging from their noses down. He brought them in the bam and covered them up with blankets. Theyhistory had to be covered up with blankets, because they were .. .It was bad. It was bad. And he himselfMinnesota had to get something to eat first and then go out and do chores. It wasOral midnight or after before he ever got back in the house. All to get that green wood. That green wood that sizzled and spit in the fire, because it didn't burn with a hoot, you know. It was hard to get going. Once it got going it was pretty good and it had to kept on being fed so that it wouldn't go down, because if it went down to much you couldn't get it started again. But that terrible. Oh that was awful.
And later on we got, we got snow later on. Snow so that our old Essex wouldn't go through. It got stuck out by the school house. So I had to go along with him up to the
170 <...,.. school house. I left De in the crib in the basket. Wrapped her up good. And I had to take Gloria along, because she was too little to leave in the house with De alone. She was not
even, she wasn't even two yet. So I had to bundle her up and take her along in the sleigh.
And then get in the car and steer while Wally tried to pull it out with the horses. And, ah,
he got the Olds Essex--heavy old car--pulled back to the farm. And, ah, at that time I
suppose Pearl, that heaviest of the two horses. I suppose that trip to Lake Lillian and
back was a little bit too much. I suppose they get heart trouble too. And after she and her
mate pulled that car back, she dropped dead. I suppose from a heart attack. Frelander c: Did you guys have two head of horses then? Inger I: We had another horse beside that. Then we got a team of horsesSociety from Grandpa. We borrowed it you know. And old Fly was the onewith of them. Old Fly and the Pony and Old <...,.. Fly we called them--the Pony and Old Fly. Pony was one we used to ride--the boys. We got them and we could borrow them. So in the spring or in the spring when we--by this Historical time. Wait a minute now. De was born in October. She was just a baby at that time, so
she was she would be a yearinterview old that. .. So that must have been the second year after she
was born. She wasn't quite two years old when we were digging potatoes out in the field. But she walkedhistory at nine months. She was a little bit of a twerp. She could run like a ... So she wasn't quite two yearsMinnesota old and was quite handy with her walking allover. We were out inOral the field to. I helped, I helped with everything on the farm if I could. And we had the two kids with us. And Gloria [De] like I said, she was less than two. That would
make Gloria about three and a half going on four. And we were out digging potatoes,
picking up potatoes. Wally had dug them up with a team of horses on a little plow, you
know--tumed it over and the potatoes were laying there so we could pick them up. And,
of course, Gloria hung to me like glue. She never left my side any time, but De never
stuck to me. All of a sudden we were missing De. She was little, but she managed to
171 (..,. walk around those fields anyway. Over boulders, fell, and picked herself again. We
looked and there she was sitting. Where do you suppose she was sitting? Leaning against
Old Fly, his hind legs. [Laughter] She was sitting there, leaning against Old Fly--Iess than
two years old. Then we did have to buy another horse. And we bought another horse
from Atwater. And of course that horse was new, so we had to leave him in the barn. We
had a horse's stall, you know, with just two-by-fours across there to separate the stalls for
the horses. We put her in the first stall. I took the two kids and I went down to wash the
separator, which was right in front of the first stall and then the bull stall was here and there was a walkway in between. And, ah, I was washing the separatorFrelander and all of a sudden--Gloria of course--glue to me says to me, "Mommy look where baby sister is. " She was underneath that new horse. Painting up to the.Inger She wasn't big enough to even reach the tummy you know. She wasn't that big. She had a littleSociety baby dress on. These little white dresses--Iacy little dresses on. I alwayswith dressed the kids in little dresses and (..,. they always stayed clean somehow. [Laughs] I don't know, but they were always
clean ... And, ah, I didn't know what to do. This was a strange horse. I didn't dare to say Historical anything to the horse. I didn't dare say anything to her. So I walked, I took Gloria. I
pushed her into the comer andinterview she stayed. She wasn't about to walk with me over to the
horse anyway. So I walked, you know, along the side of the horse. I never said a word. I
reached in and pulled her out. historyMinnesota c: DidOral the horse jump?
I: The horse had stood there and looked. Saw the little girl standing under her. Never
moved a muscle. Never moved a leg. All she would had to do is put one leg back or the
other one up and would have knocked her and stepped on her.
C: She must of known that she wasn't doing anything?
172 I: Apparently that new horse that we didn't know sensed that little girl. Did not do any
harm to that baby. But me, I didn't know this and I didn't dare to say "Wo" to the horse.
I didn't dare to say anything, because I was afraid if I said anything she would start
walking that way or this way and the horse would move. I didn't dare to say anything! I
didn't even dare to let her know I was there.
c: Even if the horse didn't try to hurt her, she could have just moved and hurt her?
I: Oh, no, yea. IfI would have said "Wo" she would have moved.Frelander You know, she would have heard my voice and would have started to run or walk or do something! Walk towards the back legs. Walk towards the front one. WhoInger knows? I had to do what I had to do. And that was to just walk up calmly, reach in, and grab Societythat little dress, as much of it as I could and drag her out, pull her out. I neverwith did that again. Yea. Oh, she got lost once. We looked all over the corn fields for her. She was in the
brut as house. She comes crawling out that little hole that the chickens come out of Historical
C: At the what? interview
I: The bruter shack we called it. historyMinnesota C: Oh,Oral the one that blew away?
I: Yea. Where he had all the chicks and turkeys and stuff. She was in there. She'd
crawled through the hole and came crawling back out through the hole. We thought she
was lost in the corn fields. We looked through all the corn rows, you know.
173 [Tape five, side two]
... sticken her fingers in by the big pigs you know, sows. [Laughter] We had half doors in the ... He bought these wild horses that came in from the West. He had to tame them. And
Wally had anchored them out so they could eat the grass around because we didn't have lawnmowers or anything. And we came out there and we saw De De going up close to one of them. Boy, we got her away from them in a hurry. And from then on the horses weren't out in the lawn any more and the half doors were hooked fromFrelander the inside. No way the kids could get in get the horses. The bottom door was always hooked from the inside, so that you had to reach over to unhook and get in there.Inger The were half doors--two halves. Society with C: Mom's [Carol] birth date was June 22, 1939? Historical I: [Yes.] interview
C: And Uncle Bud's was what? history I: May 17. Minnesota Oral C: '42?
I: Yea, sutenamai. That's, ah, Norwegian Independence Day.
C: Oh really?
174 I: Sutenamai 1942. [Conversation turns to lunch.]
C: What kind of incomes did you have?
I: O.K. I'll go back a little ways and tell you when I first started to work in Litchfield. I worked at the hotel. I got $30.00 a month, my room and board.
C: When was this? Frelander I: That must have been in '31. When was it that the Depression hit? Inger C: '29 and it got worse in the early '30s. Society with I: Oh, wait a minute then it was before that. It had to be. Wait a minute--now I, that's where I met, no I met Wally before that. We went together for a year and a half O.K. I Historical met him in '29. And together for a year and a half before we were married. So, I met him then--what--'32 we got married,interview gone with him the whole year before that. I must have met him in '31. In the latter part of '32 is when we got married. O.K. The winter of '31 I suppose is when I met him. historyMinnesota C: AndOral that was in Litchfield?
I: Oh, and that was, yes. But then I worked at the hotel. And that was before we were married. I worked for six months in the hotel before we were married. I can't remember the dates exactly, but anyway I work there. That had to be in '31 when I was getting
$30.00 a month, and my room and board. And within six months when I left there. It was just a short time later I came up there and the girls had been cut right in half--their wages
175 <.,. had been cut right in half. And they were getting now $15.00 a month. But they were still getting their room and board. Then on the farm after we were married ... Like I said, after
we were married we worked in Hudson, Wisconsin for $2.00 a week. I broke away and
went to Litchfield and he stayed in Hudson. And I worked for $2.00 a week. So now we
were both making $8.00 a month each.
Then we got together again and went back to ... Frelander's, where Gloria was born.
Then we to north of Grove City. Bought Mother and Dad out and went to work on the
farm there. We managed to squeeze by all the time. We lost livestock and horses. We finally bought a tractor that couldn't die. Frelander
C: What year? Inger Society I: We bought the tractor, maybe ... Let's see now.with We bought that--we must have had that <.,. a year or two before we left the farm. We left the farm in '42. So in '40, I suppose, we bought the tractor--a Farm-all. Historical
C: How many horses did youinterview buy and how many died?
I: Oh, golly. At least a half a dozen. historyMinnesota C: Died?Oral
I: Yea. We lost. And we lost a big nice bull. Killed himself during the night. Pulled
himself back and broke his own neck. I don't know how he did it. We lost turkeys.
Either through storms or through sickness or something. We lost so many things that
even though we could pick ourselves up--we'd pick ourselves up again ... Then we went to
Litchfield. And he got a job at Land 0' Lakes.
176 C: And this was in '42?
I: This was in '42, before Bud was born. He worked at Land 0' Lakes for I don't remember how long it was. He worked all summer I think. Yea, it was all summer. We lived at this place where Bud was born in May. And he worked and got what do you think on the Land 0' Lakes truck? $.32 an hour. We paid $25.00 a month rent, which was like a lot of money with $.32 an hour. I couldn't of course, I had four little kids. c: Was there a minimum wage? Frelander
I: No, no, no. Inger Society C: It might have been $.32, but wasn't set up inwith the '30s?
I: I don't know. Not at that time. No, not at that time. He was getting $.32 an hour. Historical Then he went to Minneapolis and got on the streetcar and worked on the streetcar for a while. And then got on... theinterview joined the New Brightons and worked as a guard. He worked as a and got real good wages. We lived in an apartment in Minneapolis. history C: Was this a munitionsMinnesota plant? Oral I: Yea. It as a munitions plant.
C: In New Brighton.
I: New Brighton
Then Melvin went into the service [ military].
177 L C: That was his brother?
I: That was his brother, or yea, or the boy they raised and he was like a brother, you
know. And so they wanted us to come back to Grandma and Grandpa Frelander's,
because we didn't have a family. The rest of them had their own home. But we didn't
really have a home, we were just renting and he had a job. I didn't want to.
C: But you had all the kids? Frelander I: We had four kids. At this time I did not want to go back to Grandpa Frelander's. There was two old men, plus my four kids, plus Wally. IngerGeorge was dead, that's why they wanted us to come back and take over the farming. Society with C: How did George die? Historical I: George died from ulcersbleeding ulcers. He died from that. And he died just before
Buddy was born. That's whyinterview we named him George, because we really liked George so
well. Anyway, we went back there; we stayed there for a year. Dh I, I just didn't want to go. I was just historylike a mule. Dh! I was dead set against it. But Wally wanted to go. He says, "Maybe it will workMinnesota out alright. Maybe it will work out alright." I says, "I can't go back!Oral I don't want to go back! Pete never leaves that chair in there! He sits and looks at me from morning 'til night! I can't stand!" I says, "I don't want to!" It went back and
forth and we did go. And of course, but it didn't work out. Florence and I got in each
other's hair, because Florence was forever out there bossing and telling me what to do and
not to do. And I thought, "Well if they have their own home--stay in your own home
then. Don't come out there and tell us what to do." But she was still out there. She was
running the place, even though she lived and didn't want to go there to live. But she was
178 still going to run our lives, you know. And I didn't want any part of it. Finally we broke away from there. We left. We left from there. And, of course, we were in the black for a long time. The family wouldn't have anything to do with us, you know. They wouldn't talk to us. They wouldn't speak to us. Until Wally got hurt! Then they came around again. And then I didn't want any part of them. I didn't tell them he was hurt. I wasn't going to tell them anything. But somebody else did. So then they came running--all of them. And I didn't want any part of them. As says, "That's alright. He's hurt. We'll take care of ourselves. Don't worry about it." And then I went to work then at the hotel and I was getting $.40 or $.50 an hour. But I couldn't work a whole lot. FrelanderI worked only when the girls were home from school. Or I could work split shift and go home and check on them all the time. I also had to run--I didn't drive the car.Inger I had to walk to work. Walk to the hospital. Walk home, check on the girls and the kids. BuddySociety was just two years old. So I to keep on doing this. And I went to 117 withpounds. And Dr. Talber finally got me to get busy and try to get that car moving so I could use the car. You know, it didn't cost a whole lot for gas, but of course with little income I had why ... And then he got on Historical compensation. He got $20.00 a week compensation. interview
C: For being hurt? history I: Yea. And I managedMinnesota to earn $40.00 a month--part time. And Carrier was so nice to me andOral every time there any .. .I never wanted anything, but you know when there was day old rolls or day old bread he always did it in such a tactful way. He said, "Why don't you take them home for the kids. They might like them, you know." I was more than tickled to take them home, because I would go to work. No kidding, I had food, because I could
eat anything I wanted to at the restaurant. Carrier was just absolutely perfect with any of us. We could eat anything but steaks--anything! But the kids, you know, I'd fix their
supper, which consisted maybe of a glass of milk and a sandwich and maybe a little fruit.
179 HaIfa banana maybe. And if Buddy couldn't eat his whole sandwich, then one of the big
girls could have the other half Oh it was tragic. I used to feel so bad about that. And
they were there alone so much, because, of course, we couldn't afford to have anybody
there. And then I was raised up to $.50 an hour. Or I started at $.40 I think and went up
to $.50. I worked for Bordens to begin with and then it was Carrier.
C: What was Carrier?
I: Carrier. That was his name--Carrier. Homer Carrier. He was aFrelander captain in the Army, I guess, and then he bought the restaurant. And then of course, you know Wally was in andInger out of the hospital. And he still got his $20.00 and then his medical bills were taken care of on that.Society And they settled out of court. And the lawyer promptly took over twowith thousand of that. They settled for eight \.., thousand. And they money that the state had put out for medical things you know--they
took back. So Wally ended up with a little over two thousand, which all went back into Historical bills. So we were sitting with our $20.00 a week, plus my forty. That was about the limit
I could do that. interview
C: How long did he receive $20.00 a week? historyMinnesota I: ForOral five years. For five years. And there it was in between that he, then he finally went back to work. By this time he had, you know, lost a leg and all these surgeries he went
through--one after another. And then he lost his leg. And he finally got his job back as it
was. But he was only there for a short time and he was laid off, because they thought he
was handicapped. And then I got up on my high horse. And I wrote them a letter. At
this time people were brought in from Europe and given jobs and a home. And I wrote
them a letter and I says, "This man was hurt on the job. He's been laid up for five years on
180 $20.00 a week. He's got a family and four kids and a wife. We can't live on $20.00 a week," but we managed to get by with it, plus what I made. I says, "He was born in this country. He's a citizen of America." I says, "We bring in people from across and give them a home and you give them their jobs." I said, "Do you think it would help if we went to Europe? Do you think they would do that for us if we went to Europe--give us a home and a job?" I said, "He got hurt from no fault of his own." I said, "They settled out of court, because I think the lawyer wanted to get his share without any problems or any trouble or any work, which he did." And I said, "You got your money back and we got next to nothing." I said, "Bills that have been piled up," I said, "wereFrelander paid out of that two thousand and that was it. We're back to nothing." I said, "What are we supposed to do?" And I don't know what else I said. But anyway, the nextInger day or the day after they had gotten the letter he was called back to work. Not only was he calledSociety back to work, but he was given all the benefits that anybody else got.with He was given vacation, sick leave. He was given the raise in wages, full time. He was given every benefit there was in the book.
The same as anybody else. But, of course, so long after he had lost an awful lot up to Historical them. But at least, we were tickled pink about this. And of course, in the meantime I had gotten a little better in wages.interview By this time I think I was over at Greep's. Oh, I worked at
Greep's. I worked at Francine's. I worked at Traveler's Inn. Sometimes I worked two jobs in the samehistory time. I worked from time right straight until I didn't have my job at Greep's anymore here aMinnesota few years back, you know, when it sold out. Oral c: What year was that, '79?
I: Let's see now it's '86, it's '87 now. Eight, nine, ten--that's ten years ago. It's about, I'd
say about eight years ago. About '78, I would say. Yea.
C: When did you work at Greep's then?
181 I: I worked there fore about 22 years--off and on. And full time and part time. But I never had any benefits, because I wasn't considered full time. Right. Oh there's a lot of things in there that I can't remember. But, that's, I guess. And then this main, the head one was there at time when Wally came to work and he says, "I want you to go home and tell you wife we aren't all heartless around here." But he didn't have the nerve to come and tell me that himself [Laughter] But Wally came home and told me that--that he had said that. And they were really good to him from that day on. In fact, he worked a long time after he really wasn't able to work. And the doctor finally took him off the job. He wasn't even able to pull himself up in the truck once in a while. AndFrelander there were many times he so tired that he actually slept and Nordeen, his partner, let him sleep in the truck while he was working. They were really good. They wereInger good to him. They were very good to him. Society with c: Sometime I don't think people know they're doing something wrong until you tell them. Historical
I: Well, of course, they weren'tinterview at the head of it either. They were doing according to, you know, that was the laws to do this and that. But realizing that actually he wasn't an invalid before hehistory came there. He was made an invalid through no fault of his own. And the guy that did it got byMinnesota scott-free really. He had an insurance of$8,000.00 and all he couldOral think about was he was going to lose all his money. He was a well-to-do man. This was what is very bad. He got by with ... He gave Wally ...
C: What was his name?
I: Nelson. Ole Nelson or something like that. Nels Nelson or something like that.
182 He gave Wally $100.00 once. Thought he was doing a real good. And he thought it was terrible that I didn't say anything to him the day he was there, because a friend of
Wally's took him there to see him. And he says, "I wish I could do something." And,
"Well," Wally says, "if you want to," he said, "my pride is gone way down in my shoes."
He says, "You can do something if you want to. I don't feel I'm doing anything out of the way by asking you. Maybe if I asked a neighbor to give me something I would be. But you, you caused this," he says. "Yea, if you want to give me $100.00 ... " ... Or he offered him $100.00 and Wally said, "Yea, O.K. I'll take it. If you got any more to spare, well I'll take it." He says, "I can use it. I got four kids to support. And hereFrelander I lay."
C: That must have been crushing to him. He worked hisInger whole life. Society I: Yes. Right. "I'm laying here, I can't do a thingwith about it. My wife have to do everything." And I didn't say anything to the guy. And after that guy left and he said to the other fellow. He says, "You know, I don't that Mrs. Frelander was very friendly." Historical What did he want me to do! Say, "Thank you very much for what you did. Thank you for that $100.00, you laid myinterview ... my husband is out of commission for who knows--for the rest of his life." What I supposed to say! I didn't say anything. I wasn't rude. I didn't say anything. I justhistory let talk between themselves. I wasn't even there when he gave him that $100.00. And he lost $100.00Minnesota for reckless driving. So he lost $200.00. Then he has ... He had causedOral another accident. And he $3,000.00 he was carrying in his pocket at the time. He was a well-to-do man and it was years and years later I heard from a relative of his that when he died they thought we had gotten his money, because they couldn't find any of it.
I'll bet a dollar to a donut, Chad, that his money is buried in tin cans right on his farm out there. It's probably still there. Because was a well-to-do man and he lived as a pauper himself Broken dishes.
183 <." c: So they never found his money?
I: They never found that money. I says, "No," I says, "I'll tell you right now, we got
nothing." I said, "We lived on $20.00 a week compensation," I said. That wasn't hand me
out, that was insurance money, that he was entitled to. And I says, "What I could earn,
which was $40.00 when he was really bad off." That's what we got. We didn't ask-
there's only one time we got any help from anybody--from welfare--or anything and Dr.
Talbor was at that end. We both landed in the hospital at the same time and had four kids at home. He says, "Those kids have got. .. " Frelander
C: What happened to you? Inger Society I: I, ah, I don't it had. Oh, a blood vessel brokewith in my leg and they were afraid of "milk leg" or whatever they call it. I don't know what that is. I don't know what it is. No.
Anyway they were afraid it would go to my heart and kill me, see. Historical
C: Like a clot? interview
I: Yea, like a clot--likehistory blood clots. So we both landedMinnesota in the hospital for a while and Dr. Talbor went to the welfare, "ThoseOral kids have got [to] live. They've got neither of their parents home now. They're both in the hospital." But as soon as I got on my feet again I went back to work. And I
refused any more help. And Dr. Talbor was really mad at me. He said, "You and your
stupid pride." He says, "You could have let that check come for a while until you got on
your feet a little bit." "No," I said, "I'll make it O.K. We'll make out O.K." [Inger asked
me to delete this next statement with regards to welfare and people taking welfare when
they don't need it and complaining about the amount.]
184 ~ I: There was $1,000.00 in debt up at the clinic when Wally died. I managed to get
through with that too. I managed to get that paid up without any body's help. Except my
kids have been good to me. I have .. .1 don't think: anybody ever has had four kids better to
me than my kids and my grandchildren have absolutely ... They have helped me and I have
not refuse them, although there sometimes when I didn't want them to help me quite as
much. But they have good. They have been absolutely marvelous. And they ...
C: Well when my folks [Thomas and Carol] want to give you something they have to figure out a way where you won't feel bad taking it. [Laughs] Do Frelanderyou know what I mean? Inger I: Yea. And when Papa died that was $3000.00, you know. WellSociety it was 250 I got from the Social Security or something, you know. Thewith kids pitched in and helped pay for the funeral.
Historical C: Do you get Social Security? interview
I: Then, I wasn't old enough to get Social Security at that time, you know. I was, but I wasn't old enoughhistory to get Wally'S check, as it was. He took a minimum of his full amount because he hadn't been Minnesotaworking for so long, you know. So he took a very small amount. He gotOral a 156 I guess to begin with. That was entire month. That was full payment on what he had made, because he been in the hospital for so many ... Ris partner quit or had to
leave and he got 300. He got just twice as much as Wally. Wally got $50.00 a month
pension and his partner got $250.00 I think:, because that was according to their pay.
When he died then he had gotten up to 200 and something--I guess. 250 or something,
but because I wasn't old enough I could get that 250, but they told me I should take what
I could get, because if you're going to wait until you're 65 ... Actually I had to do it anyway,
185 because I didn't earn enough to keep the house going and myself going. I didn't earn enough to keep the taxes paid, even though they were low or to keep the upkeep or anything. You know, I didn't earn enough. But they told me that was the best thing to do--"just take your Social Security as it is." So I had to take a cut on his cut. So I started out with about $150.00 a month by myself.
C: Then you were still working at Greep's at that time?
I: [Yes] Frelander
C: But it was part time? Inger Society I: That was part time and then I worked full time.with
C: And back to part time? Historical
I: Right. interview
And I could have gotten a bigger check if Greep's would have ... But, if they could have pushed a historydate over to January. And they sold one that Social Security office in St. Cloud, that if you couldMinnesota get your... And they did do that, so that I got that, but they kept it themselves.Oral They didn't give me it in January. They kept it themselves. They took it off their own. For instance, I had a couple days that they could put into January. You know.
Instead of paying me in December they could pay me in January. However, they didn't do that. They kept that themselves.
c: But you worked it and didn't get paid?
186 I: I worked it. Yea, I worked, but I never got paid for it. But, they took it off here, so
that I got the bigger amount. So I got the bigger amount, because they took it off, but
they kept it themselves.
c: How'd they get away with that?
I: They just did it. And of course I didn't know how to fight it.
C: Kind oflike when you were a little kid when your underwear wasFrelander down around your ankles? [Laughs] Inger I: Right. I didn't say anything. Society But, I mean, they should have given mewith that, because it was my money. But I '-.,. didn't get it December, they should have given it to me in January, you know, but they
didn't. That's what the Social Security man said up there, you know. "If you can get your Historical boss to pay you in January for those two days, then you can get in on this." I guess it was
my check I'd get for Decemberinterview I wouldn't get unless they took that off So they thought
they were helping me by getting me--that I could get that check for December. See Wally had died in December.history They would back track that and give it to me. You know. Now his check, you know, heMinnesota got for his ... that, that went with him, you know. When he died his retirementOral check. The very first one he got I sent back because that was the ruling. I had to send $50.00 back. They from the State Department, sent it back to me and said
they were sorry they couldn't keep paying me that $50.00, but I should keep this one and
cash it. "You keep this $50.00, but you won't get any more. We're sorry, but that's the
way it is." You know. I knew that, that's why I sent it back, because I knew I couldn't
keep it. And I also sent the Social Security check back, but then they gave me, in turn,
187 they gave me my check--$100.00 less or something, but I got it. But that's by these two
days off and then they put it into January, but they kept that money. They kept it.
C: So your trips back to Denmark has been a mixture of gifts and your own money?
I: Well the first time I went to Denmark, the kids gave me that trip.
C: As a present? Frelander I: Yea. Just so I could go back. I remember once we went to Georgia. Once we went to Georgia and we needed tires and Virg put them on. See,Inger ab, he figured it this way too. You know when the kids were home, you know, when he had itSociety we'd give it to the kids. We'd give them meat. We'd give them ... whateverwith we had we'd give them. And when they l,.. bought their house we borrowed them money so they could put down on their house. We took it out of our own house and borrowed them. See this is what bothered Bud at the Historical time. We had ab. See, your folks [Thomas and Carol] didn't need and neither did De I
guess. But while Wally wasinterview still working we felt we could do this. We could take a loan
on the house and give them the money. But when it came to Buddy's turn by this time Wally was nothistory working any more. We weren't getting very much. We didn't dare take a loan on the house for fearMinnesota we'd lose it then. And he felt kind of bad at one time we knowOral ... We tried to explain to him why we didn't dare to do it. We'd do everything we could to help him in any way and we have. We always help him just as much if not more
than any of the girls. In fact, I think we've helped Bud and Carol more than we helped the
other two. The other two got the least help. We did everything we could for them and,
ah, ... Like I said after Gloria and Virg were married when they were home why I would
send stuffwith them back. I made things for them. I did things, you know. We tried
everything we could. Probably, maybe the one who got the least would be De. De was
188 on her own continuously--all the time. And then after she went to Colorado. I think. perhaps maybe De was the one you got the least of any of the four kids. Carol went to college. The girls started to work, you know. And they helped us at home by staying home, paying us a little towards the ... towards their...They figured if they moved away from the house they'd have to pay. So they thought they'd do it for us. They'd stay home and give us, which they did. And which helped us. Carol wanted to go to school, so of course she never had the opportunity. She needed some help rather than give us any help, but she did it all herself except for when ... I'd, we'd groceries for her. We'd take her to and from. We'd bring groceries to her. We'd take her to and from. I'dFrelander make clothes for he ... [Tape ends] Inger Society [Tape six, side one] with
Historical C: What were some of the cures that you had on farm--family remedy? interview
I: Yea, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. history C: Or did you guys goMinnesota to the doctor's regularly? Oral I: Oh, no. Nobody went to the doctor's in those days unless it was absolutely a matter of life and death. Nobody went to doctors much. What family cures? I really don't know except just using common sense on many of these things, that, you know, just use common sense on most anything--on a cut, or a bruise, or a cold, or flu, or anything just use common sense.
189 C: Did you have anything like cod liver oil?
I: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes, yes. [Laughter] Anything that was enough to drive you nuts.
Right, cod liver oil would. Caster oil. Caster oil.
C: What was that used for? Sore throats?
I: No. For stomach. Laxative. And they were terrible. They'd just tore your insides out practically. [Laughter] Yes, I gave to Gloria once when she was justFrelander a baby. She was the oldest one and I wasn't too smart. The poor baby almost... She screamed! Oh, it was terrible. I thought, "Oh my gosh! What did I do?" Inger Society C: How old were they before you could give itwith to them?
I: Well there again, you see, we didn't go to doctors like they do here you know. We Historical didn't, ah, and, ah, I'd had, you know, I'd been given it. And of course that was the remedy right then and there wasn'tinterview anything like Exlax or something easy. And I suppose
I could have given her more than a fraction ... Probably I gave her more. Maybe I gave her the dosage for historya grown up. Who knows? But the poor baby almost screamed ... Oh I tell ya it was terrible. I rememberMinnesota that. Oral C: Could you tell me some of Papa's background before you met and married him?
I: Oh, he went to a school in a country school. I think he did go to school a little while in
Atwater. Yea he did a matter offact. He did got to school in Atwater. And then he went to country school. He didn't go to high school any more than I did. And, ah, no that's about it. He just went to ...
190 <., c: So he lived on a farm outside of Atwater?
I: Yea. He was born in Atwater and then they moved to Hopkins and they were there for
a couple of years. Grandpa Frelander was a police officer in Atwater for a while. See, we
have pictures of that. I have pictures of Grandpa Frelander as an .. .1 don't know if you
ever seen him.
C: No. Frelander I: Oh well I've got them. So maybe I'll send you one of those copies too. Inger C: That'd be great. Society with <., I: O.K. Right. I'll send one of those copies. I'll have to dig through all this someday when I'm home after I come back home from Snell's, then I'll send you some. O.K. Historical
C: Great. What was his birthday?interview
I: Grandpa Frelander? historyMinnesota C: No,Oral Papa.
I: Papa--July 11. And he was born in 1903.
C: What kind ofjobs did have before you guys met?
191 I: Oh, he, ah, well of course like I say he was a farmer and then he worked at Land 0'
Lakes. He was also on the streetcar. And he worked at New Brighton as a guard. And his main and longest job was, ah, as a maintenance man at the State Highway Department.
That is where he was hurt. And that was his main job.
c: So he pretty much farmed then before you guys met?
I: Yea. Frelander C: He grew up on it and stayed and ... ? Inger I: Yea. Right. Society with C: What was family--names offather, mother, brothers, sisters?
Historical I: Oh, Grandpa that was OlafFrelander. And his mother was Alice Westlund. interview
C: And they were both born here? history I: No, Grandpa FrelanderMinnesota was born in Norway--two years old when he came here. Yea, he wasOral two years old. Grandma Frelander was born here and her name was Westlund. Her maiden name was Westlund.
C: How about his brothers and sisters?
I: Oh, he had a ... He was the youngest. And then next to him was George, who died at an early age--42--from bleeding ulcers. And then Vernie--Vemon--he was two years older
192 than that and he died at an early age--42--from a, well actually it wasn't a heart attack, it was, actually his veins. He broken vein in his brain and I think actually his veins became clogged. I really don't know exactly what it was called, but he died.
c: Was it maybe a stroke?
I: He died in his boots, so to speak. Yea, he was going to go to the market with a bunch of pigs and all of a sudden he said he had a terrible headache again. And Emily says, "Go and lay down and I'll go get the doctor." And when she came backFrelander he was dead.
C: I think that's how Franklin Roosevelt died. Inger Society I: Probably so. And Vernie was just 42. Samewith as George. And then it was two years later than that that Papa got hurt so bad, and almost was killed within an inch of his life.
With a fraction of an inch he would have been killed outright in that accident, you know. Historical And then there was Florence. She's the one that survived all of them. She just died here a year or two ago. interview
C: She wasn't the oldest one was she? historyMinnesota I: No.Oral She was next to the oldest. The oldest one died when he was 56. She had pernicious anemia and she was in the hospital. She got pneumonia and she died from that.
So actually, they all except Florence died at an early age. Grandpa Frelander's family, on the other hand, all, well not all of them, but some of them lived to a ripe old age. There was a string ofthem--a big family. And they had a fairly big family on the Grandma
Westlund's side too.
193 (." C: When did you guys own your first car?
I: Oh my. [Laughs] I suppose maybe, let's see now, in, ah ... oh let's say about '34-'35-
'35.
C: And your parents never owned a tractor, did they?
I: No they had an old Ford. An old Ford. Forsten, Forsten!--they called them. Old F orsten. Was that a car" Frelander
I: No that was a tractor. An old Forsten. I think GrandpaInger had an old Forsten. Yea, I think: he did. An old Forsten. It was a second hand one. Society with C: You guys didn't have a tractor until '40 though?
Historical I: No. I think:. I don't think: we even. I think: that old Forsten was sold on the auction,
but we didn't buy it. We boughtinterview a new Farm-all, but that was in 19 .. .1 suppose in 1940.
C: Could you describe a typical day during the Depression when you were a parent? historyMinnesota I: No,Oral not really. [Laughter] It was just a every day occurrence--getting up, eating and getting dressed and getting cleaned up and going to school and going to work or
whatever.
C: How old were your children before you started working--an outside job?
I: Oh, oh well I had to go to work, because Papa got hurt. Otherwise I wouldn't have.
194 c: So you didn't work until'44--after you had children? So Uncle Bud was two years old then?
I: After we were married, no, yea well, no we were on the farm, you know, and it was soon after that. c: That's total work, but I'm just saying an outside job.
I: Yea, right. Outside job. No. That was when Buddy was two yearsFrelander old.
C: Now this is a tough one--are you ready? Inger Society I: Yea. [Laughs] with
C: I want the recipe for potato soup. Historical
I: Dh, my word. You're goinginterview to make potato soup?
C: I want to eat potato soup so bad. historyMinnesota I: DhOral for heaven sakes. You know, I never use a recipe, but you take about three ordinary sized potatoes.
C: How many will this serve?
I: Three or four or a couple. A couple people. About three or four [potatoes] because I am so crazy for potato soup, you know, I can eat a great big bowl of it, [laughter] not just
195 a little skimpy bowl. You take about three or four regular sized potatoes and peel them and cut them up in little pieces and then you take an onion--medium--and then mince that, or cut it up in small pieces. And you just cover them with water and put them on to boil till the potatoes are done.
c: How much water? Just so it covers it?
I: Just so it covers it. Right. Now if that takes a little while then maybe the water might Frelandergo down, you know. If it goes down, just leave it as is and take a potato smasher or fork or anything and just smash them up. Inger Society c: And you leave the water in it? with
I: I just leave the water in it unless it's too much water. If it's too much water you can Historical poor a little of it off But ifnot...you don't have to drain them completely. Live a little of the water in there. And if it'sinterview boiled down just leave it in there. But if it's too much water in there, you know, then you can empty a little bit of it off Well now if you want just ordinary potatohistory soup then just take whole milk. Add about a quart of milk to that. .. And if you want it really good!Minnesota Then take half-and-half Oral C: A quart of half-and-half?
I: Yea. Or you could even take a pint of half-and-half to go with your quart of milk. You know, just to get a little ... And then, ah, just before it's done, why, put a dab of butter in there or put a dab of butter in your dish as you empty or filled your plate, why then, just, ah, put a dab of butter in the plate or in the soup bowl. And there you are! A little salt
196 (.." salt and pepper. Actually what you do--you put a little salt in your potatoes when you boil
the them. So then when you are finished then just put a little pepper. Right. Your salt is
already in your potatoes.
C: I've only had it once.
I: You're kidding?!
c: And where I had it was at kind of a fancy restaurant. And we hadFrelander carrots in it. Did you ever put carrots in it? Inger I: You can shred some carrots in there if you want. But you don'tSociety have to. with C: But not too much. Adds a little flavor. Historical I: No, yea, well actually what it does I suppose it adds some coloring or something to it. interview But that should be kind of shredded in there.
C: The potatoes are actually mashed. Not chunks. historyMinnesota I: No.Oral
C: Not mashed, but just squished?
I: Just squished. Yea, take a fork and just squish them so they're, you know, semi
squished.
197 c: would it be kind oflike when you have potatoes and you pour gravy on them, but you mash them with your fork? Would it be the same texture, so there is some little chunks?
But they're all cooked.
I: Yea. Yea, but they got to be cooked, you know.
C: Cool. !think I might make that tonight. [Laughs]
I: It is good. But like I said it is better when you have a rich milkFrelander or even a little cream in there. We've had that a lot, because it's not...well, of course, in our case it was not expensive to make at all, because we just used plain milk,Inger but to make it extra nummy, put a little cream in there, but you don't have to. Just ordinary milkSociety is just fine. It's good even with just ordinary milk. Then a little dab of butterwith in there.
C: Did you make your own butter when you were on the farm? Historical
I: Yea, no, well we didn't alwaysinterview make it, but we did make our own butter at times. Sure.
Yea. We used to have a stomper, you know. history C: Do even like store-boughtenMinnesota milk compared to the fresh? Oral I: Ah! This is very funny. When we were on the farm the kids did not like what you called the "milkman's milk." That's what they called it. [Laughs] And when we came to town they didn't like the farmer's milk. [Laughter] There is a difference. Ah, myself as I grew older I was sometimes tickled that they pasteurized the milk, you know, because, ah, when I think about it some of that milk was actually filthy. The cows came in dirty and some farmers would clean them up, others would not. And, ah, dirt would drop into the
198 l,... milk. It was very unsanitary to be honest with you. It went through the separator and actually a lot of that dirt stayed in the separator really realizing how much dirt there was in
there. Then of course the skim milk came out and that was much cleaner than the whole
milk. What we always kept the whole milk, you know. Well when I looked at those little
disks in there where the milk all went through--caught little hairs and dirt and stuff that
was in there. And that actually was stayed in the whole milk, you know, and people drank
that. So, I, actually what a person should have done at that time I guess, just take the
skim milk and add a little cream to it. At least it would have been a little cleaner. It still wouldn't have been purified like through a healthy process you know.Frelander
c: Did you guys bring your milk to a creamery or did youInger only have enough for yourself? Society I: We brought the cream to the creamery. Right.with Later on in years after we were through farming they brought the milk. Then they just brought the milk to the creamery and they
took care of it from there. Right. Well, the skim milk ... actually our skim milk was given Historical to the calves. Except we took the whole milk and the cream went to the creamery. And
the skim milk went to the calves.interview
c: And you guys also had chickens, right? historyMinnesota I: WeOral also had chickens.
c: Did you use the eggs for yourself?
I: We sold eggs and we, yea, we had them ourselves and we also sold eggs.
199 C: So did you bring your goods to Grove City?
I: To the produce in Grove City or the creamery.
C: So Grove City was pretty much your business place?
I: Yea. The creamery with the cream and the produce with the eggs and the chickens.
We sold the chickens. And then ah, yea, Grove City was our point of business with that. O.K. Frelander
C: I know yesterday you said you vote for people becauseInger you like them. You like Republicans, as well as, Democrats. But you tend to vote moreSociety Democratic. Could you tell me why? with
I: Yea. Because I feel and a lot of people do feel the Republicans are for the big man- Historical they really don't care about the little guy. That's why I tend when they call the two parties.
I do tend to think that it's theinterview man himself However, the Republican party is definitely for the big man. He does not care that much about the little guy. I don't care about all this welfare--givinghistory people and not giving them an incentive to do their own thing. I like people to pull their ownMinnesota weight. I am definitely not for all this giving people so they can sit homeOral and do nothing. I'm for the people who go out and do their own thing. Make their own living. Take care of their own families. I'm definitely for that. However, I do feel when there's anything that comes up in the government that is good--it's not for all, it's for the--its more the big guy can take advantage of it where the little one can't. I guess that's the way I have to say it.
C: You're not for a welfare state.
200 I: No definitely not. Well I do, I do go along that there are people who really do need it
and there are people who because--actually in our case it was that way although I was
still, regardless of that, I still wanted to pull my own weight. But in our case with four
kids and their father laid up for many, many years. And couldn't work. There would have
been really nothing wrong with me accepting a little help here and there. And the only
time I did was when I landed in the hospital myself Then I had no choice. The kids had
to live. You know. And the kids were here before all this happened. And after the kids
were here that is where I get all this, I get very "teed" up about this Indian, African, all this affair--where people seem to not care, they keep raising kids. TheyFrelander keep a bringing kids into this world. They can't raise them and these poor children have to suffer. They die! They die by the thousands! And they bring them into theInger world. When things like that happen people should think not of themselves, but of the familySociety they're bringing into the world. If they can't afford to take care of themwith please do refrain from their own... desires. ~ Not, not to just think only of themselves and put one child into the world after the another--for that child to suffer and die, because it doesn't get food. It doesn't get care. It Historical doesn't get this and ... That I am definitely against. I don't like ... but if something befalls a
family--they already have theirinterview family. There is no way they can say that something ... And
then they still keep on bringing kids into the world. Because now they have exactly enough for themhistory to take care of They can manage maybe to do this like we did. But we certainly can't manage Minnesotaany more. So just refrain from that. O.K. live apart them if that's whatOral it takes, when live apart. But don't let your desires come first. Let the children come first.
c: Good attitude.
I: F oHow me?
201 c: I definitely follow you.
I: And this is why I get so upset when they keep on asking us to save these children.
"Save these children, they're suffering. They're dying. They're starving." Why don't they do something for these grown ups. And see to it that they quit having children. They raise them by. And Tara said, I don't where she was coming from when she made this remark. She says, "Well Grandma, you know, in order to have two children they have to have ten, because eight of them are going to die." That's in those countries, because they're so weakened. Frelander
C: If they would just have to and stop. Inger Society I: In order to get two, right. Why didn't they withstop with the two in the first place. Why have ten of them just to save two. You know. I didn't understand that all.
Historical C: The only thing I can understand about it--the starvation part is wrong--they should have two to begin with. interview
I: Or none if they can't afford it. historyMinnesota C: ButOral also over the medical thing. Because the death rate just from sickness and things is so high. And there you're going to have a few die.
I: Oh yea, definitely.
C: But as far as starvation you know. You're ensuring eight to die if you ...
202 I: They haven't got a job. Well you know we've got people here on welfare. The more kids they have the more welfare they get, which is ridiculous. And maybe a lot of them use that money on themselves, not on the kids, that they bring into the ... They're the ones that are getting the money, but you know. I'm definitely against all those things, but they're not definitely--I don't think they're just necessarily Democratic. We've had welfare with our Republican system, of course there's enough Democrats in there to hold some of that up if that's the way they look at it, I don't know. But I'm just feeling, I always feel that when there's something going it's, it's the big man who's going to benefit from it in the Republican party. They raise their own wages, they, of course, maybeFrelander the Democrats do that too, I don't know. They live well. And actually they do not have to have the wages that some of them are getting in order to live well. TheyInger can still live well ... you know. They don't have to have $100,000.00 and $200,000.00 to live. SocietyYou know, they don't need that. with c: Definitely not. Historical
I: No. interview
C: You knowhistory what's weird you know how you said there's enough Democrats to keep the Democratic system going.Minnesota You know what's weird when the Republicans gained control after OralF.D.R. died?
I: Yea.
C: They were the ones that were fighting to keep F.D.R.'s policies. It's like once these policies are adopted the Republicans are not for change--they want to keep it that way.
203 Do you know what I mean?
I: Yea.
c: So after F.D.R. died, the Republicans, initially they were anti-F.D.R., but after a while
after the New Deal had been sitting, you know, had been in the process for a long time,
like in the '50s. Then the Republicans were the ones that didn't want to dismantle it. Do
you know what I mean? Frelander I: Yea. Right. It was good. It was a good system. Actually what, ah, Franklin Roosevelt was a good man. He was a rich man, but he Ingerwas definitely for the people. He was definitely for the people and when he put all this ... work onSociety the roads and all this, actually he let the people ... there was a awful lotwith of run down people that worked on the l., roads for the government or so. But he put them to work so at least they felt they were earning what they were getting. Not sitting at home in a racking chair and expecting this Historical money to come into their laps. interview
C: Didn't your father work for the W.P.A.? history I: Yes. Minnesota Oral C: What did he do for the W.P.A.?
I: They worked on the road. And I know that Dad did his share of work on there. But
they were run into the ground by other people. They were as if they had a disease or
something. Nobody wanted to get near them, because they were working the ... What was
it? W.P.A. Yea, W.P.A. And he worked for what he got. I know he did, because he was
204 a hard worker. And I know a lot of others did the same thing. Maybe there was a few of them that stood on shovels, but I have seen construction workers down here stand and lean on a shovel too and they're working for a private concern, not just for the government. I've seen that too. Right.
c: So your father worked for the W.P.A.
I: For a while. Frelander c: Do you remember when? Inger I: Well, this was after they quit farming. This was just after heSociety came back from Denmark. with C: So this would have been in '36? Historical I: It would have to be in there. Yea. Because it was after he came from Denmark. interview
C: Do you remember what he did? Was it road construction or road repair? history I: No. It was mainly hardMinnesota work--shovel work. Oral C: And was that for road repair?
I: Road repair mainly. On ... on the roads, you know, for some sort of stuff Regardless of what it was, even picking up stuff on the roadside and things like that, at least Franklin
Roosevelt felt at least they were working, earning--they were out there doing something to get, earning what they were getting, rather than sit at home expecting somebody to
205 drop a bucket of cash in their lap, you know, without them doing anything. And this is what so much this we had now Republicans. This is what they do not. . .I don't care, each ... Now the president can certainly not look over The whole United States and see what's going on, but each one, each community has got their own system. And in any small town or even in a big town. In a big town they just an area. And certainly the head ones of these--see this is when some of the crooked work comes in at. Some of these head ones are getting just as much or as sometimes they are giving out to others. They're in it! Instead of seeing to it that so and so ... All these places that dole our cheeses and butter and milk and all this to people, you should see the people thatFrelander go in there. People that come in great big fancy cars come out with loads--arms loads of cheese and stuff. And there is others. Others there was in Litchfield, for Ingerinstance, one of our T. V. guys also a repair man for frigidaires and all this and that stuff. He came Societyto one home ... frigidaire was on the blink. Her frigidaire was full of thesewith five pound boxes of cheese. They were spoiled. Some of them were spoiled and there's no way a person an eat all that.
Historical C: It's not good for you anyway--all that cheese. interview
I: Right. Why don't they make it in smaller groups and why don't they look into ... We have a lady .. .I'mhistory playing cards with a lady and she says she doesn't come to play cards on Wednesday or on this particularMinnesota Thursday I think it is, because she's at the head of this little Oralgroup that she passes out. And she has to give ... She has to get the information for the people--how much they earn. Now one lady, we know that she is a very well-to-do woman and has got the nerve to go and tell them that well all she gets is $9,000.00. She's on a $9,000.00 income. Nine thousand I suppose is yearly is what they figure--yearly.
Right? She has bought a condominium. She owns that. She is antique work. Has got lot of antique--buys and sells. And goes and tells them ... And goes and gets this cheese. I know who she is. I know who the lady is that said this to me. I get less than half of that
206 nine thousand a year. I wouldn't think of going there. I could. I'm well below that, without lying about it on top of it. She not only lied about it, but even if she was getting nine thousand, she still didn't [need] that cheese. She could buy. Like I said, "The little cheese I eat I can buy. I can buy by milk and I can buy my flour. I don't have to [go] there and beg for it." "Oh now don't feel that's begging," they said. "You're perfectly within your right to go there." I says, "Yea, but I can still take care of it." I said, "Let those that really need it get it." But I certainly they could weed out that those that don't need it. But I says, "It will never come to that I guess." It will never come to that. Oh, I tell you, I says, "It will never come to that. " Frelander c: You know what I can't understand--these businessmenInger embezzle hundreds of thousands of dollars and they just brush them off'--"Don't do it again"Society kind of thing. with I: Do you know that presidents even get in on some of these things?
Historical c: Oh they can be bribed. interview
I: No, not bribed. They get free haircuts. They [get] free this; they get free that. Do they need free stuff?history No you wouldn't think so with the income they get. They can fly here and there and all over andMinnesota that's on the taxpayers' money! They can do this and that and that'sOral on the taxpayer. What they get is free and clear. They probably don't even pay taxes on it. Who knows?
C: Well they do. I don't know if you remember this, but Nixon during his first term it came out that he owed three-quarters of a million dollars in back taxes on his first term.
207 l,. I: See! They're trying to get out of it. Ifwe had done what Nixon did we'd all be sitting- we'd be sitting rotting in jail. And he's still living like a king.
C: There is some proof that he didn't know about the back taxes, because he left all his
taxes to his lawyers [accountants], but that shows--a president should know exactly what
is happening with everything.
I: Yea, right. Frelander c: So that's bad. Inger I: That's bad. Right... [Tape ends] Society with
[Tape six, side two] Historical interview
... All these big wheels. Look at Hitler. We were reading that in the paper the other day- how he becamehistory [a] millionaire on top of millionaire. You know, by saying he wasn't taking his wages and thenMinnesota later on taking the whole works, including tax and everything else!.Oral . .It's so much rotten stuff going on among them. And, ah, I think Kennedy was another good guy. Sure he was wealthy too, but I don't think he was just for the big guy.
Now, he, ah, I think, I don't care--they can be for the big guy, but for heaven sakes don't
forget the little guy. Just don't let him sit in back there and take all the rough stuff, you
know. But, ah, the little on as well, but that isn't the little guy that take advantage of all
this stuff The big guy--like I just got through saying, the big guy takes care of all ... they
take some of this welfare under a cloak. Nobody knows about it. They help themselfto
208 this. They help themself to that. They help themself to this and nobody knows. Oh, there is so much corruption. There is so much rot. You can't believe it. But, no, I really, I just feel that the Democratic party does--I think they kind oflook at both sides really. They maybe, maybe tax the big guy a little bit more than the small guy. I don't know, but I do think the Republican is for the big fellow. Democrats are for the little fellow. But there are good Republicans. There are good Democrats.
In Denmark, actually, they are socialized. And you know, actually, I've heard both sides there too. There was a lady that came over here from Denmark. They were quite well-to-do. And they were very disgusted with the fact that they gaveFrelander so much of their tax money. They had, they actually taxed right down the middle--everybody. But everybody including the big guy and the little guy don't have to worryInger about medicine, medication, or anything. Their doctors and everything is free. Now there of courseSociety again there are some that get more advantage of it than others. Butwith they live just as well over there. In fact, in fact shut off again. [Inger goes and gets a newspaper clipping of an article that states that
Denmark is ranked as the best country to live in.] ... Historical
C: Could you repeat that? interview
I: Yea, someonehistory asked me well just because it says there the survey--the survey names Denmark as the best placeMinnesota to live. And she says, "Would you go and mover there?" I says, Oral"Of course, I would not." I says, "I've got my kids here, my grandchildren. My family is here and this is my place. I live here. This is my country." However, had I not gotten married. Had I been alone--yes, I would have moved back to Denmark. If! didn't have anyone here. Because all my family are in Denmark. So it wouldn't be just because of this survey, but because that's where I was born and that's where all my family is. But my family, my immediate family, come closer and they live here. And that's why Grandma
209 l,. wouldn't go back with Dad when he went back [referring to her parents]. Because we were here.
c: Remember in Minnesota in the mid, late-'30s or early '40s. That the D.F.L. went-
Democratic-Farm-Labor party. It used to be just the Farm-Labor party and the
Democrats. There was two separate parties. Do you remember when they joined?
I: You know, I'm not very smart on politics to be honest with you. I'm very dumb on it really. Sometimes I don't think I should even converse [laughter] aboutFrelander it because I'm not smart enough on that subject. Do I remember. .. ? Inger c: O.K. Let me ask you a different question. Do you like the Societynational Democratic party better that our state's D.F.L. party? with
I: No, no I think it includes everything. I think the whole as a ... Right. Historical
C: One more question aboutinterview politics. Do you the Roosevelt then was your biggest
influence on why you are a Democrat--him as a person and his politics? history I: Well, he was a goodMinnesota person, but Kennedy also was a good person. Lincoln was also a goodOral person.
C: He was a Republican.
I: Right. .. Eisenhower was a good person ... Ah, I like Reagan alright. Ah, did not like
Hoover. Definitely not. And I guess Truman was pretty good, although I didn't
personally really care that much about Truman. But I guess he was good person. He was
210 <..., a Democrat. And, Carter--Carter I guess got my sympathy, because ... ah, and Johnson ... Ah, Johnson was in as president? Right. Yea. And Carter, was Carter after
Johnson?
C: Carter was after Ford who was after Nixon.
I: But I remember. I never will forget this! I'll never forget this as long as I live. And
this was that evangelist--Billy Graham--he was there when this inauguration took place. Nixon coming in, Johnson going out. Right. And on T. V. ... Billy GrahamFrelander was a very good friend of Nixon. I have no time for Billy Graham anyway. I have no time for any religious leader who uses the Bible and God to make theirInger millions! I have no time for them--period! I don't think the Bible was made for anybody toSociety enrich themself on. They're uses that--getting all this money. He iswith one of the wealthiest men anywhere! Billy Graham is. And some of the others are too. I don't have time for any of them. Really,
because of that, because of that, because they're using the Bible. They might have some Historical good things about them, but that ... the fact that they're making all this money overshadows
some of that. But I'll never interviewforget when said that, when they stood there at the
inauguration. And he said. That now Nixon was coming in as president--"Now maybe we would have a decenthistory government. II Johnson was standing right there. Now I don't care if he was maybe Billy Graham'sMinnesota worse enemy or something. Billy Graham shouldn't have a worseOral enemy, I don't think unless its the Devil himself And I don't [think] of Johnson as being a devil at all. I don't think that he was this great president. However, I don't think it
was up to him to stand there and rave about what Nixon was going to do compared to
what Johnson had done! "Now we were going to see something good coming out. II And
what did we see, but I never saw anything about that or heard anything about that from
Billy Graham! But I saw that--Johnson's face just fell, you know. In front of the whole
nation he stood there and actually ran Johnson into the ground--Billy Graham! Evangelist!
211 A man of God, that he calls himself1 Standing running another man into the ground!
Raving about another one, that, actually, he apparently didn't know anything about. .. as the history came out and showed us. He apparently didn't know him or else he was just as crooked as Nixon was. I always thought that was terrible. I thought that was awful. I really did. I really did. I thought that was awful.
c: What was your happiest memory during the Depression era?
I: Oh, like I said to Papa on his death bed, "You know, we've hadFrelander some mighty rough, but it hasn't all been rough." I says, "Just being poor is always sad. You can have a lot of good times." Enjoyed life. We enjoyed our kids. We enjoyedInger our grandchildren. We had a lot of. . .It wasn't all bad. Society with C: Would you say your family is the thing that makes you the happiest?
Historical I: Family is, yea. Family is what makes me happiest. Right. And family is what made
Wally the happiest. Yea. Right.interview I'd say family. Yea, sure, I go and play cards, but my family are the ones that are closest to me. Virg said once and this was after Papa died that actually I just,history ah, ... everybody was trying to push me out. You know, "Go do something." I didn't. IMinnesota sat at home and watched T. V. or did whatever had to do at home. I neverOral went any place. I just stayed home. Like some of my friends; there's one of my friends that does that same thing. But, ah, Ginger was one that got me to get out--pushed me out of the house, actually, to get myself moving. And Virg hurt my feelings once by saying, "Well, you just can't live for us, you know, you gotta live for yourself." But I felt I was, that I was, ... was a compliment to the kids, I thought! That I thought so much of them that I that they came first. But apparently he was trying to push me out into the field too without, you know, right.
212 c: Have you heard of that term "tough love"?
I: Yea. Right. Right.
c: What was your saddest memory during that time?
I: Oh, oh we had lots of them. We had lots of them. Everything Wally would be getting pretty good, you know it seemed like everything was looking rosier. The ax would come down, fall right on top of us again. Back in the hospital he'd go. ItFrelander was just one thing on top ofanother... It would get good, then it would get bad. Soon as we got up on top of the mountain, we'd slide down on the other side. Then Ingerwe'd get up again--slide right back again. That seemed to be the story of our life. But, see, when Societywe were going up we were feeling kind of good then we would feel bad. Sowith I'd say probably half and half .. Half and half
Historical c: Before you were married a meager job could support you. But once you were married it was tough--right after youinterview were married you were split up--Papa in Hudson, Wisconsin making $2.00 a week and you in Litchfield making $2.00 a week. Would you say that as the Depressionhistory went on things got better for you? But then you got a farm and then Papa got a job in New BrightonMinnesota at the munitions plant. Oral I: Well, he got. .. At the job in New Brighton that was actually--we really thought we were--this was actually, we lived in an upstairs apartment, but we were happy. Ah, when he had a day offwe'd go shopping. And we just enjoyed being together. But what was really bad was we were asked to come back home, which were did not want. Definitely I didn't. Wally, I guess did. But I didn't. I wasn't happy about that at all.
213 c: Do you think he wanted to or felt obligated to?
I: I think he sort of felt obligated. I don't think Wally ever thought about himself as gaining this or gaining that. But of course, he did like, he did like his home place and being back there. But George was the uppermost one that before he died he was going to get the farm. He was going to get that. Wally and Vernon were always kind of.. George was the main one! He was kind of put on a pedestal so to speak. He was the ... And actually Vernie and Wally, especially, had done just as much at home as George had. But of course George stayed unmarried and stayed home, which made Frelandera difference maybe. He was a good guy. But the fact remained that had we been home. Had George been there, he would have gotten the farm, everything that went withInger it--free and clear. Had we been there Wally would have gotten his share, but no more that anybodySociety else, even though he was home doing all the work. He did not seemwith to be as important to the family as George was for instance, in or Vernie either for that matter. Historical c: How was it divided when, because George died? Or is that nobody's business? interview
I: No, no, no. When Pete died Grandpa got the biggest share, you know. George died of course so thathistory George was no longer--Vernie was dead, Ruby was dead. So actually the only ones that were leftMinnesota were Florence and Wally. And, ah, Florence got the biggest share.Oral However, when Grandpa died ... when Grandpa died each one ofus--well I know Florence got more, but--I mean Vernie's kids, for instance, they got--there was three thousand put away for them. And we got three thousand. And I always felt bad because I couldn't put that away for our kids, because we needed it. We needed it. And this is why since I sold the house. This is really why I want to make it up to the kids. That they didn't. Actually three thousand wasn't that much divided up with four kids, you know.
But when I sold the house I put some of it into C.D.'s and then I bought the mobile home
214 and then I sold that and I got, I got, I gained on it actually rather than losing on it. Well actually I gained two thousand on that or around there. Well my kids have always been so good with their gifts and everything. So last year I just took two thousand out and divided that four ways and gave it for a Christmas present. And, ah, Bud of course, being in the situation he is could use it very easily you knOw. However, the girls, all of them, they said, "Well just let it sit there. You use it. If you need it you can have it back." Well its, they, they thought that I would take the interest off from there. "No," I says, "I gave it to you and your building up the interest." I thought well, "eventually if you leave it there long enough that one thousand, that will be one thousand forFrelander each of you." And then the rest of it is sitting their names. Now how they will do that if something would happen to me. I definitely don't. I wouldn't have a, I wouldn'tInger have enough to pay for myself a few months in a nursing home, for instance, if I shouldSociety have to go to one. Heaven help me I hope I never have to--fifteenwith hundred a month. How long would I be able to pay my own way there?
Historical C: Not too long. interview
I: Not too 10ng .. .I manage to when the kids bought the house. They bought it for ten thousand. Theyhistory sold it again I think for $25,000.00--the old house. But it seemed that money went right out theMinnesota door. They went and bought that expensive mobile home, that BuddyOral lost again now. Lost everything. And, urn. But I managed to hang on to it. I gave them back five hundred so they could put a new roof on the garage. So actually I got, what I got was nine thousand, five hundred. And then I bought my mobile home and
I paid three thousand down on that. So that left me six thousand, five hundred left from the house. And then I paid monthly on my mobile home for two, three or something like that. Then I decided I got tired of that, then I took the rest out and paid it in full. But I managed to work myselfup again. So that I had, I had around 15,000 in the bank. I
215 l, divided up into so many, so there was 3,000 there for each of the kids. Well now I had to buy that car--that was 2,500, that I paid there. But I've worked it up again, so I'm still up
there. I've still managed to do that. But see the interest gone back down so far, so if I
start taking otlfJ the principle that's bad news, but if I could just get along on the interest.
You see that's gone down to halfwhat. .. So, and that's--and that's my supplement. I use
the interest as a supplement to what I get on Social Security. And then I, the I've been
two, three times I've been at Snell's you know and I get. I end up with a couple, three
hundred there over the year. I get along alright. Right at the moment 1...1 get a, well I borrowed Buddy two thousand--and see Ginger would not have WallyFrelander until she the money she wanted. She wanted three thousand, no she wanted, no she wanted more than that. Was it four thousand cash and $350.00 a month and he Ingersent all kinds of stuff over there. And he could not raise the money, because the credit was downSociety to nothing. So I said to him one day, "Would [it] help any?" I says, "I withdon't [know] what I can do about it, but," I says, "Would it help out if! took two C.D.'s? I don't know if we get full thousand on
them, but we can check." And he was tickled pink. I never anybody so happy in my
whole. He managed to get the other thousand--heHistorical got part from Virgo He got part from
Tom. He got part from De. interviewHe was already owing De quite a bit, because he had
borrowed for all this police .. .lawyers are expensive. He borrowed a thousand from me
before that. And, urn, so we did go to the bank and he got the two thousand. So he's history paying on them. But I'mMinnesota still getting the interest on those two thousand. So I've got eight thousandOral that I get interest on at the Northwestern Bank. And then I've put three thousand away for my "my last expenses." I put it down in such a way that any of the kids
can take it out and pay, but three thousand isn't enough, I know that. And then I got
another two thousand in there on C.D. 'So And I got another two thousand in there on
regular ... So I manage alright. And I get the interest on those and that's what I use. I don't
use anything for anything else.
216 C: What kind of interest do you make off of it?
I: It's gone down to half. When it was eight, nine percent it wasn't bad, but now it's gone down to five and five and one-half percent.
C: I remember I took one out in money market certificate--C.D.'s--are they the same?
I: C.D.'s. Money market that's a little bit different. See, the last C.D.'s I took out and I put it in money market. I also put back in the kids' names. The moneyFrelander market is no all four names. And so that's what I mean. I don't know what they'll do about that if they can still .. .I don't think they can take your C.D.'s. BecauseInger I think there is a lady up at the nursing home, her maid is still working O.K. So they wanted herSociety to cash a C.D. for them. You know. And she wouldn't do it. She had donewith what I did I guess--put her kids' names on them ... Because actually if you have, O.K., so I've got 15,000 in C.D.'s, money market, and then in my own ... for my own. I guess they wanted to take her money that she'd put Historical down for her "last expenses." She wouldn't do that. And, ah, you know how long is that going to last on $1,500.00? interviewAnd that doesn't cover doctor's or anything. How long is that going to last? Not at all. I couldn't even live six months I guess. history C: Do you think the biggestMinnesota set back for you guys as a family was Papa's accident? Oral I: Oh, definitely. Oh yea. Yes, that was ... oh, you know actually it really hurt him the way that his fellow men was going ahead and he was going further behind all the time, because he couldn't handle it. Yea, that was the biggest, definitely, because his fellow worker got twice what he got and then right after he was laid--or he was laid off right after they took him off the job. They got $100.00 raise in that July after he was, but, ah, I don't know if he found [out] about it. I know I never told him, because it would just hurt him all the
217 more. He missed, he missed everything--missed the boat every time. All the time. Felt bad we missed the boat every time. It was like all the years that he was laid up, it seemed like every time he was getting to feel good and everything was looking rosy--"Now we're going to make it. Now we're going to do it." Bingo--It was just like it wasn't supposed to be! It was just like .. .It was meant that we weren't supposed to do for ourself, even though we kept on doing for ourself--we weren't supposed to. We weren't supposed to get any head way. It was just like it was meant that, that we were held out. c: It's weird. Frelander
I: Yea, it's weird. And then they say, and then you on goingInger to church and they say, "Pray--ask and you shall receive." I says, "That's not true." I says,Society "I don't I've ever asked for a whole lot, but," I says, "I don't see that I'vewith been answered on any of the few things I have asked for." So that's not true. It says, "You shall receive only if it's His will." It's right in the prayer. If it's Your will. And yet you keep on saying, "If you pray--ask and you shall receive." That's no true. I says, "TheHistorical little bit I ask for I do not receive any way," so I says, "something interviewelse is wrong some other place." I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. history C: A lot of questions onlyMinnesota dying will answer. You know? Oral I: Yes. Right. A lot of questions and no answers. And they keep on preaching--"Pray.
Pray for this, pray for that." I don't think you should always pray for something. I think you should remember and thank for what you do get...And I says, "I finally decided that that's the only thing to do--thank for what you do get and forget about any prayers of asking for anything." Let it come.
218 <...,. C: There's a song that mocks praying for everything. It starts out, "Oh Lord won't you
send me a Mercedes Benz. II
I: [Laughter] Right.
C: Do you think the Depression for [you] started when you got here?
I: Yea, I guess I'd have to say that. I guess I'd have to say that. Frelander C: Do you think it has ever ended for you? Inger I: I don't know. Well, I've gotten along O.K. since Papa's beenSociety gone. I've gotten along fairly good. Yea, I can't really say. I can't reallywith complain.
C: Do you think it's more stable now, is that pretty much what's better about it--money
wise? Historical interview
I: Yea. Yea. It seems like. At least we don't have this up and down business in the
hospital, continuous you know. Yea, no, I can't complain. It's O.K. historyMinnesota C: ThisOral is a special favor for me. [Laughter] Would you sing your favorite Danish song.
I: Oh! My favorite Danish song. I can't even do that, because my favorite Danish song I
think is--"Children of our Heavenly Father. II [Sings Danish verse--see notes.]
... And then I can't remember the rest of the words. [Laughter] But my very first song that
I ever learned--ever and that was of course a Danish song. And that goes like this ... [Sings
first Danish song that she learned--see notes.]
219 ... And my brother's first song was ... [Starts singing "Tingaling a latta ... "--see notes.]
... [Laughter]
.. .I can't say those two are my favorite songs, but those are the very first songs that either one of us learned in school. Very first. c: That's excellent. Well thanks. [Laughter] Another one--would you say your favorite Danish prayer?
I: Should I say it? Frelander
C: Yea. Inger Society I: O.K. I'll say it the "Lord's Prayer." [Reciteswith the "Lord's Prayer" in Dane--see notes.] ... and I always add this. [Recites line in Dane--see notes.]
Historical C: What's that? interview
I: "Bless all in Jesus' name." history C: O.K. I'm definitelyMinnesota going to have to get you to write this down, because I can't spell that Oralstuff [Laughter] I hope you can. Do you remember how to spell all that?
I: The "Lord's Prayer." "Falleve" is the "Lord's Prayer."
C: I'll let you write these down.
I: IfI'm going to write that whole thing it'd take me a while.
220 '-.,. C: I think I'm done. [End of tape]
[Tape seven, side one]
c: ... [Regarding Inger's biological family.] Did you ever find them when you went back
or get in touch with them some how? Whatever happened to them? Frelander I: I don't know. I wrote to them. I wrote to my mother when I found out. I never found until I got to New York that she was my real mother standingInger there waving at four o'clock in the morning. She was the only one on the peer waving. AndSociety I was wondering [what Fred] was doing over on the other side. Why hewith wasn't waving to Aunt Viola. But he '-., could care less about Viola. And didn't know that, see. I came over here, I found she was
my real mother. So then of course I wanted to keep in touch. So I wrote to her. Mother Historical helped me--my foster mother helped me. And we wrote, got it back, unopened, no
address, no address known. interviewI sent the second letter, got the same back again. Never.
She had cut the ties and that was it. No more was she going to ... She was going to leave it go at that. Apparentlyhistory maybe for my welfare rather than for her own maybe. I'm sure it had to be a little bit roughMinnesota on her to do that, because otherwise why was she there at four o'clockOral in the morning. You know, if she hadn't cared at all she wouldn't have been there at four o'clock in the morning. You know, she wouldn't have gotten up at two a.m. in the
morning to be there, you know. She knew when it was leaving ...
c: Did Eloflive with her?
I: Yea.
221 C: When you went back to Denmark did [you] find anything about either of them?
I: No.
C: Did you try?
I: When I was first. When I first stayed at Grandma and Grandpa's there you know-
Mother's and Dad's--my foster home. My mother was going with a very nice fellow. He was not either my father or Elofs father. But he was just a wonderfulFrelander man. and he loved my mother very much. But he equally wanted to take care of her children. And he begged her to marry him and bring me back. So you see,Inger he had to be a good guy to do this ... And she didn't want to ... He wanted to marry her and he wantedSociety to have her get me back. He would raise both of us as his own. Sowith he had to be a good guy. He really had ~ to be a good guy. Whatever he was ... to do that. To want to do that, because he might have wanted children of his own. But regardless ofthat. .. [Conversation turns to us-
talking about the spelling of words--see notes.]Historical interview
I: "Baby Dumpling"--That wasn't exactly .. .it was a dolly--"Baby Dolly." Or it was
"Dolly." historyMinnesota C: "BabyOral Dumpling Dolly?"
I: It wasn't "Dumpling." It wasn't "Dumpling" at all. It is a "Dolly"--looking like a
dumpling. [Laughter] [Spells her doll's name and games--see notes.]
I: Danish names: Thorkild; Danish names: Thora, Karen. And of course my name is
very Dane. These are all very Danish names. Musse ... Borge (Boy). [Points to written
222 names and gives the sex of the name]. .. Flemming ... there's quite a few .. .! can't think of them ... Yette is a name. [Again applies gender] ... Resmus--boy ... and ah ... c: How about these guys--These are your suitors. Your suitor list. [Laughter]
I: Oh yea, I had a few of those. Some of them were serious, some were not.
Frelander
Inger Society with
Historical interview
historyMinnesota Oral
223