An Oral History Of Columbia College Chicago

Bill Hayashi

OK, today is May the twelfth, 1998 know, why don’t you write some- I mean, and through that reading, and this is the interview with Bill thing up and if the course goes you trying and then differentiating you Hayashi, faculty member of the can teach it.” go, “OK.” Department of Liberal Education and the Coordinator of the Senior Seminar. So that was my beginning. It was That’s how I kind of evolved my really like the third day of registra- own life philosophy. So I love the Can you tell us when you came to tion and it was just kind of fact that it seemed at Columbia I Columbia and what were the proposed and like it filled up really could explore that kind of teaching. circumstances that brought you fast, and so that was my first So then, sometime later, it occurred here? opportunity to teach here and it to me that it would be really fun, I came to Columbia in 1982, and I was quite an extraordinary class. I because I continued teaching this began teaching part-time. I was mean, I was completely blown away Castaneda course, and then I taught teaching then at Central YMCA because there were the people who a course on narcissism, that’s Community College in a program are, you know, apprenticed to pathology and literature because called Quest for Identity, which sorcerers, and people have offered then I got really interested in involved both doing group therapy me peyote buttons, and it was just narcissism. And again, Lya was and also teaching inner-city college like a completely different world interested, and again that course students speech, writing, and read- than I had, you know, certainly was very popular. And again, I did ing. And I worked with the same than Central YMCA. And then the a very experiential—are you prima- twenty-five students, another whole irony of it was that this rily a grandiose and idealizing instructor and I; we were the only happened in the Spring semester. In narcissist, what are your main teachers that they had for a whole the summer I was invited to teach a soothing mechanisms, I mean, you semester. So it was very intense. It course at the University of Chicago know, I mean, very again a kind of was like doing a lot of in-depth at my department, which was experiential course. And again, I kind of like character development Social Thought, on Castaneda was very excited, like, “My God, and esteem building as well as because that’s what I said I wanted this is a very different kind of teaching these basic skills. And I to teach. And it was such a totally teaching.” And I could kind of like was feeling like I really wanted to different—I mean, it was like they pursue what really interested me, teach some things. At that time I wanted you to have a logical sort of just see what happens. really had a passion for my own criteria and just like, my resources, life, like at that time I was reading I mean, so what research I had Carlos Castaneda. And I just heard done; it was just like, just an that Columbia was a place where utterly different experience. And I you could teach kind of like far-out realized I really wanted to teach at things. And so I actually came and Columbia because there are people I went to speak to Lya Rosenblum who work, very genuine, sort of who was at that time the Dean, and passionately concerned about what registration had already begun. But they were learning. But, you know, I mentioned to her that I really was I mean, really, I mean, people were interested in teaching Castaneda really angry because I wouldn’t take and that, through a fluke, which peyote buttons with them, you was that my major professor from know. And they really wanted me the University of Chicago was to have lived the material in some related to one of her relatives, she way. And I felt really drawn to that was kind of excited because I guess because that’s really kind of the she respected this person. Anyway, way I learned which is to really what she said was, “Well, you kind of live the experience that I’m reading about and just seeing, is this a life philosophy or, you know,

267 An Oral History Of Columbia College Chicago Bill Hayashi

Anyway, it occurred to me that it too. And I guess a full-time posi- you know, but it was much more, would be great to teach here full- tion had opened up. But it was a you really had this feeling: This is time because I was getting a little very different way of like, you what the universe wanted. This was burned out with the intensity of know, recruiting faculty in those this meeting of this person and this the other teaching. And I met days. institution and let’s just go with it. Louis Silverstein, who then was I mean, and to some extent, I think chair of this department, Liberal It’s interesting because that’s a just because of the size and equity, Education, and he was very inter- r eoccurring theme about different you know, you just, you don’t have ested that I might want to teach circumstances: Mike recognizing that same sense in terms of at least here. And I guess through a fluke, the talent or seeing something hiring, you know? And I regret it where Mike Alexandroff got into a different, and maybe we can talk but I also, you know, understand taxicab with the president then of about that later. But again, has the reasons behind it. And I do Roosevelt University, and at that Columbia been able to maintain think that, say in Liberal time I hadn’t gotten tenure at that or has it, you know, been Education, when we do our hiring Roosevelt because I was completing forced.. we, you know, we do look for that a second degree in social thought. Yes, yes. Are you asking that or... kind of passion and that kind of Anyway, Ross Weil told Mike that like, what uniquely does this he was furious that the college was Yeah, I mean, when you felt like person have to offer Columbia letting me go because I was the you fit in but you fit into a place College. Not simply are they the best teacher they had and Mike, that you obviously thought was... best scholar in Shakespearean stud- apparently, had stored that infor- Very exciting, very in that, I kind ies. I mean, it’s like, do they have mation in his head. So then when of, I mean, encouraged individual something that will really add to, Louis approached him with this, I vision and passion, you know. I you know, what Columbia College mean it was like, I’m trying this mean, it just wasn’t Mike, it was is about. And do they really feel because it feels to me like also Lya, you know, who took the like they want to be here and have synchronicity is part of my whole, risk, really, of hiring me for a a passion for teaching here. whole, like, why I’m here. I mean course that had, you know, wasn’t including being able to offer a in the bulletin. And again, that So you, as an individual and course after registration had started; shows how Columbia has really those like minded, even though it wasn’t even in the bulletin, you changed because at this point, no you’ve got the bureaucratic stan- know? I mean, there was no, there way Jose could we offer a course, dards that you have to comply were just these individual pieces of you know, now we have to prepare with, but you’re still trying to paper, you know, sort of posters: the schedules, you know, a semester maintain what someone saw in Anyone interested in Castaneda, ahead of time. And once that you. new course being offered. So it felt schedule is printed no way are you That’s right, that it’s really about like, in many ways, this is where I going to have a course. So again the individual. Not only their areas was meant to be. So that’s the story this was an old Columbia. I do of specialty, what they publish, etc. about how I got here. And then think that in some ways, you know, It’s really important to us, will they through Mike and also me meeting, it comes down to kind of adminis- really like serve the needs of at that time, the full-time Liberal trative system, bureaucratic system Columbia College students. That’s Education faculty, you know, they that has, as Columbia’s grown, it’s ultimately, for me, what I love invited me to become full-time been much, much harder to have about this place. You know, it’s the here. It was a very, I mean, it was this kind of spontaneity simply, students. much smaller then. I mean, you you know, in order to ensure some didn’t have to do national searches kind of fairness for hiring and all I mean, you mentioned the old and all that. I mean it was just, I that sort of stuff. I mean, I think Columbia and I think this is inter- mean that was how, at one point I it’s a little sad given my story and esting because many of the inter- got a full-time position. I mean, of who knows, if I had gone through a views talk about it or, you know, course it was always like—who put job interview, who knows if I have some term for that. And the something, was something available would’ve gotten a job, you know more I interview, the more I feel what I’m saying? That I might not have even been invited for the—

268 Bill Hayashi An Oral History Of Columbia College Chicago

that it was a place that someone heading under pros and cons but lot more like a, I mean, commu- made up, not that it was perfect, I’m just speaking about life, my nity, family, etc., etc. And again, I mean people had plenty of pros enthusiasm like, you know, at one size and bureaucracy and there were and cons, but that its uniqueness point it felt like I was really inter- trade-offs, you know, but... perhaps, that it’s very hard to ested in meditation and relating to imagine the way things worked, psychology and creativity. And so You said that before and now that how it came together, and how it for a number of years I taught a one constantly tries to maintain, went for so long. Can you course called Meditation: Focusing you know, how can this person describe it any further about that Your Creativity. And it was, I mean serve the needs of the students? old Columbia? again, once I started teaching here I And you said that that’s the most Well, I mean, I think what was also started tuning in to kind of important thing, the students. special about it is that really, like what the students were really Could you describe, in your own people were seeing more in terms interested in also. And it was kind words, what you feel the mission of kind of like their unique sort of of through that kind of conversa- of Columbia is and how that ties individual gifts. I mean like, you tion between myself and the in with that philosophy of you know, people were hired who didn’t students that these new courses saying the students have? have Ph.D.s, I mean like, people could be born, really. And all I had I mean, I like very much the state- like Harry Bouras, like Bob to do was, you know, was go to ment, in the mission statement, Edmonds. People who were, who Louis, who was then chair, and say, that Columbia College students didn’t have the like the legitimate “You know, I’m interested in this will eventually author the culture credentials as such but somehow, course. I think the students would of their times. You know, and it’s a something about them as teachers like it.” And it happened. Now you bit presumptuous. But I do think and as individuals that was unique. have to think about curriculum, that people working in the arts and And I think now, I mean, you papers, you have to, you know, I media have much more of a role know, it’s tough because, you know, mean, go through these criteria. directly in shaping the culture of when you read hundreds and And again, I can see why that has their times. For me though, the hundreds of vitas applying for a to be, but something of what we question is is what culture are they full-time job, I mean you’re like, can only call it, it will come up going to author? And that’s where I “Where did they get their degree?” again, was lost, you know what I’m think the role of the general educa- A lot of the things that sort of saying? And it had to do with, tion departments are very impor- went for whether or not you were again, kind of like honoring indi- tant because I think through the hired were kind of almost, you vidual vision. And as you have general education courses that they know, intangible. You had to kind taught for a while, also in conjunc- take—and you know, humanities, of feel the spirit of the person, you tion with kind of where the history, social science, science, know. And it’s very hard to kind of Columbia students were, what they etc.—they start to contemplate recognize that because we’ve had really had passion about, you know, more kind of humanistic values, some experiences where we what might really be an interest to you know? And that that’s really thought, “Oh, this person is great” them and supporting them in the function of the general studies and they’d come in for an interview whatever their fields are. It was just courses, which is to ground the and it was just horrible, just total a lot smaller too, you know? I creativity in self-reflection and duds. You know, so it’s so hard to mean, at graduation you would reflection on sort of value priorities, know what a person is from paper know a lot of the students when you know, are you creating culture and what they are and I think we they went up there. Now, you that basically supports utter self- keep looking for this special kind know, thirty or forty will walk indulgence and, you know, narcis- of Columbia spark or, I don’t know across the stage and I won’t know sistic pleasure? So I think that how to talk about it but, so I think who they are, and then there’s one, that’s really an important part of just the fact that the size has made and I teach here full-time so I have what I see the mission of Columbia it more of a necessity to become much more exposure to a lot more being, which is to encourage artists more bureaucratic and where it students. But really, in the earlier and media students, but also really is bureaucracy. I mean even graduations I’d know a lot of the provide them with certain self- things like, you know, I mean, kids who would walk across the reflective and contemplative kind stage, you know? So it really felt a

269 An Oral History Of Columbia College Chicago Bill Hayashi

of skills. It’s also kind of really also their major but whatever your encourage them to consider issues savvy about political, historical background is, that you can find such as: Well, if I have to move to issues too so that they’ll have a some form of expressing it that Boise, Idaho in order to get that context out of which to place their would also kind of tap into a foot in the doorway to a radio creations and hopefully some reflec- particular skills and interest in that announcing job, I mean, is that tive values that they embody in it, field. But this really becomes quite going to be fine? Is community sort of guiding your creation of the a powerful statement. We tell the being with friends who really share culture, you know. So that is to me students that five or ten years from my values? I mean, is the most like a really important part of the now when they go back and look at important thing for me making a mission of Columbia, which is to their projects, hopefully, you know, lot of money or will it be being offer these kids who, in some ways, this will remind them of what their able to create a really expressive will have an impact on creating the vision was when they were still work? We had a situation where a culture of their times, providing young and idealistic at Columbia woman who’s quite gifted in them a set of tools so that the College and, you know, have they management was interviewed for culture that they’ll be helping to gone too far off from that? Marriott Hotels. And her interview, create is one that we can really a woman said, “Well, are you will- honor and respect. Do they recognize it? ing to give up your personal life for Do they recognize it? Exactly. And, three years in order to do this?’ And that’s really what’s behind my you know, for me Senior Seminar is And she kind of gulped and she becoming Coordinator of the Senior kind of a last effort to kind of said, “Yes.” And then later, a week Seminar Program. It’s called Voice, encourage this kind of self-reflec- later, her fiancÈ broke their engage- Values and Vision and in the course tion sort of, what are my priorities? ment because he said he couldn’t we really emphasize a lot, articulat- What do I really want to offer my live with somebody who was such a ing what your core values are, culture? You know, as a citizen, as workaholic. And she brought that knowing what it means to have an artist, you know, etc. So that’s to the class and right away this your own voice, and also, within really what draws me to this discussion kind of ensued about the classroom, creating a sense of program. how many of you really want fami- safe community where people can lies and have you thought about really feel free to really tell their What need or void do you see that there might be a tension stories and from those stories draw that filling. I mean, what, how between following your career forth what their core values are. did the concept come about? dream and having a family. But And then it culminates in a final Well, see, I think that in many, what happens to a seminar I think project which is the students’ there aren’t really that many Senior is that people really begin to reflect vision of a future good life. And Seminars across the country but... on what really do they hold dear? that is defined very loosely. They Is it something all seniors have They tell their own stories around a can express a personal dream that different, whole set of things, you they’ve had. They can talk about to take? Eventually at Columbia all know, their best and their worst what values have emerged in the job. I mean they do some commu- process of the course that they see students, all seniors will have to take it. And in most of the Senior nity service so they have the experi- are really the core values. How ence of what it means to sort of live would they celebrate those values? Seminars in other colleges and also in the other kind of senior courses for something higher than just What is most vital in their lives for their ambitions. They write a mid- them now as they go into their in this college, much of the focus is placed on career. And, you know, term paper about what they future that they want to kind of believe. They bring in a treasured offer to the world? And these proj- writing your resume and how to manage work and how to get a job. object and write the history of how ects take the form of whatever art that object came to have meaning or media or discipline that the And I think all that is valuable at one moment, but I’m much more for them. So we’re really teaching students want to use to express them sort of skills of self-reflection them. Like we had someone write a concerned in kind of the students kind of reflecting on the whole so they can really begin kind of great management plan for her looking at their own experience and good life. So it’s not simply the range of what, what is the good life for them? And we frequently pulling from that what they do. artists and the media students who They have values. They might not are encouraged to use the media of have named and articulated, but

270 Bill Hayashi An Oral History Of Columbia College Chicago

they do have values. And it’s very you know, they’re still playing in it, I’m just wondering that, you exciting to them to discover in this their band and then they’re work- know, it sounds like your value is process that, “My God. It really ing, you know, this, and they start keeping the students at the doesn’t matter to me whether or to realize... center. Does that become not I have friends.” And then when increasingly harder and there’s this job offer comes where it’s not So you don’t just bring back the more bureaucracy and so there’s only that they know anybody but is ones... the Senior Seminar? there a real possibility that they Oh no, there aren’t that many, and Well, you know, I hadn’t thought could form friends with these a lot of people find their dream job about it. But I do think, you know, people, you know? and they decide to quit. So many of without it I would see students them, I mean, that’s the major kind of not really stopping, before They start to really, really, I think, question in terms of work. How they graduate, to reflect on what become self-reflective individuals can I have a passionate heart and they received from their college and I also think citizens because we also make a living, I mean, how do experience and what it is that they emphasize a lot, you know, why I balance that still? And we try and really hope to create for themselves does community service matter? find students who are sort of doing in the future. Because so much Why does it matter to become, to that juggling act. I’ve also, you really is getting that job, you vote, to be a concerned citizen, you know, just like, one student talked know? I mean, “God, it’s going to know? And so again, most Senior about the increasing value for being turn out just the way my parents Seminars emphasize simply the flexible. Because she really finds said. I’m not going to get a job in career dimension. In our program, even out a year and a half she’s my field.” So the natural focus is which is really offering the students already had three jobs and each one this and, you know, all that seems an opportunity to first of all really becomes more meaningful and to matter is the film courses that learn the skill of self-reflection and closer to her dream job, but she had they had or, they don’t realize that, then begin just working with how to be flexible about being open to you know, their general studies to want to really map their lives, accepting something that at first courses also have some place in what are the things that they really she wasn’t sure, you know, why terms of creating their future. So I feel like will be really important for would she do that? It’s not her, you do think that without the Seminar them? And will accepting that know, it’s not in her specific major, that kind of self-reflection, which I great paying job make it impossi- stuff like that. So it’s great to have think is the key to have a liberal ble to live out some of these other these students come back to really education, I think that would not values that they have? And it’s just offer the students some kind of real necessarily happen. a, a process of just, you know, the sense of what it’s like to not have unexamined life is not worth the world of Columbia. How do It sounds to me, and I’d like you living, you know? Socrates. And it’s you navigate that? And what is it? to counter this, that it also just, giving them the opportunity Increasingly, you know, all the seems that when you say that to know what it means to have an students say, “You need a commu- there aren’t a whole lot of Senior examined life. So that’s what I nity, you need some people to Seminars nationwide and the ones think is the purpose of this support you, and you need to be that do exist are really this program. And I think too many of clear about what you won’t do.” preparation for this job search, them, I mean people in general, You know, it’s a little vague what career development, that is this this immediate need, I’ve got to get you will do, but you have to really our attempt at trying to create a job, is paramount, you know? know what you won’t do. And you some uniqueness at Columbia? And it’s not just about getting a need to really find to be able to Well, yes, I do. See, I think job, it’s really kind of like, what take risks. Columbia, in being Columbia, is would really make them happy in really different from most institu- the long run. And the other thing Do you think that Senior Seminar, tions. I mean, it really is a school that’s good is we have seniors come one of the reasons, is that it’s in for arts/media students. And it back to talk about various experi- r eaction to the growth of the really does attract students who in ences after. And a lot of times, they College? I mean that as the some sense are more of an individ- haven’t found the perfect job but, College becomes—that bureau- ual, have their own dream, want to cracy becomes more imposing on follow their own paths. And, you

271 An Oral History Of Columbia College Chicago Bill Hayashi

know, it was interesting when we you come to that? Has your Castaneda mattered to me so much. did a focus group of what seniors personal philosophy of education Of course, the narcissist course or wanted the Senior Seminar to be or views of education changed the meditation course I taught were about. The main thing they wanted since you’ve been at Columbia? things that I know are needed to was how to not sell out. They’re Yes, and radically. I mean, it sort of come to terms with the issues very conscious that that’s a major shocks me when I realize I wrote involved, and deciding, what I issue they’re going to face, how to my dissertation on Troilus and wanted internalized affected how I not sell out, and it speaks to our Cressida of Shakespeare and that I live my life and how meaningful students. In other words, they’re was really a Renaissance scholar. I and how happy I felt. And I think not, for the most part, mainstream. mean, you know, and now I’m through—this is, fortunately my And so this question of not selling teaching courses like Empowering courses are very popular. And I out is very crucial to them because Diversity or, you know, Philosophy really think the reason they are is they felt pressure all along, even to of Love and it’s just... because this is what the students make the choice to come to want. They really want to find Columbia, to not kind of go to And your degree, you’re from U of personal happiness and meaning. more traditional schools where at C? least they would be on a tracked I’m from University of Chicago and And they, you know, one thing I career or at least graduate school. initially my Ph.D. was to be from like about Columbia students is, I So being that Columbia, in itself, is the English department. And I did mean, they don’t bullshit. I mean, a school that attracts this kind of everything except my dissertation they’ll do what they’re supposed to student, which is in some sense and then I decided that that was do but they’ll let you know that preparing them for a lifestyle that’s too limiting, and so I went back they’re not really excited about it, more, in some sense, risky, creative, and I continued another Ph.D. you know? On the other hand, if and more on an individual... So I program in something called Social they find something they really really do want to support that Thought, which involves combin- love they’ll be totally there. So I lifestyle just as the students are ing humanities, social sciences, and think, you know, it’s a nice match. about to make these major deci- history. And I worked with some In other words, what matters most sions: how am I going to live? wonderful people, you know, Victor for me is the question: How can I Where am I going to live? Who Turn, and my dissertation directors live meaningfully and fully and am I going to live with? And, you were Sal Daldo and David Green, happily? And I think really that’s know, that hasn’t come across at who’s the classicist. And so, but what are students are really, they these other colleges because that you know, I mean, I liked them come here because they have a kind of question is not that much because for one thing, it was inter- dream that they believe and they addressed by these other. I mean disciplinary, you know. But it was don’t just kind of follow the track, like, well, you want a job or are also a kind of, it was quite an elitist you know, they don’t follow you going to go to graduate school? group. I mean, in terms of high bureaucracy in terms of this. And I mean, they’ll prepare you for culture and all that kind of thing, so I think they’ve really affected my those but it doesn’t involve this you know what I mean? And I have continuing to believe that this kind kind of alternative career or big tremendous respect for the kind of of teaching, which directs really the risk kind of finding, being unique scholarship and passion that these quality of one’s soul life, you know, and special, following your dream, people brought to it but, you know, is what they really love. And I’ve really. So it’s just, it’s supporting, at I could not see myself teaching a been able to do that here. Now, you the very end, what set Columbia Shakespearean course. In other know, I could see teaching sort apart from a lot of other institu- words, Columbia has gotten me of—well, I did, I would teach tions right from the very begin- much more into like living life, you Hamlet in Humanities but it ning. Does that make sense, what I know what I mean? It’s like, we would not be the Hamlet that I am saying? keep using this phrase “Thou is an would’ve taught at, you know, even action” in Senior Seminar. And it’s that I did teach at the University of Yeah, yeah. And has your, again, like I’ve gotta study things that Iowa, you know. It’s Hamlet as, you thinking back now based upon will really effect the quality of my know, so he procrastinates, so now your experience here, how did life, not just as a scholar but as a you procrastinate, do you think it’s human being. That’s why teaching

272 Bill Hayashi An Oral History Of Columbia College Chicago

related to any kind of feeling about So when you went back, you said, really deepen my sense of who I am sort of like what’s meaningful in to get the psychology degree... and the way I want to be as a life? You know? There’s a way that Yes, that’s right. human being,” I don’t think that’s I would teach these works in a very addressed directly, you know? different way which was really, Was that after you started here? what is kind of the real life ques- That was when I was still teaching And the getting out of informa- tions that these authors are address- at Central Y in this Quest for tion, or giving it to people, as ing that you grapple with, and do Identity Program. Partly because I opposed to what you’re describ- you agree with the answers they was doing group work and I had to ing as a real interchange. come up with? How would you— figure out how to do it. Well, you see, that I think is really but again, it keeps going back to: crucial which is that—and it’s been I was just trying to see what How do I want to live my life? really interesting. Even in terms of Columbia’s influence has been in, Senior Seminar it’s getting a chal- you know, your direction not only And how would you have taught it lenge to find faculty who want to in the classroom but outside of at the University of Iowa? do this kind of teaching. Because Oh, I would have taught it the way the classroom, or were you you can always hide behind... In I did teach it, well: what are the headed in that direction and this terms of even finding teachers for major things of this play, what are was your outlet? Senior Seminar, you know, a lot of the key image patterns, how is Yes, it’s more like that, I think I faculty are comfortable when they Shakespeare different than was headed in that direction. But I teach content. They can always say, Beaumont and Fletcher, is he deal- think what was great about “Well, what do you think Friedrich ing with the same thing? It would Columbia was that I had both the Nietzsche would say about that or always be within a nice construct of administrative and students’ what does Aristotle say about that particular subject matter. It support to really pursue that kind that?” But when you’re really would never be: how does the of teaching. teaching a course where you’re subject matter influence you and using the philosophy or the litera- And I’m going to make a wild the way you’re living right now? ture in a way of like raising ques- guess here, but I would imagine That’s why actually, after I got my tions that the students then have to that at U of C it would be stereo- Ph.D., I went back to the Chicago grapple with in terms of their own typical that the professors and Counseling Center and got a degree experience, you can’t fall back on faculty weren’t necessarily inter- in psychology because again, it was your content being a kind of buffer ested in what the students were this kind of thing where, you know, between you and them, and you feeling or anything but... what really mattered to me was Well, well, what it is was that the have to become very intimate with kind of, how people live, you students that went to U of C were the students. And you have to know? And, you know, I think for much more concerned about image confront the fact that sometimes many people to do sort of the right patterns, themes, and sort of the you’re judgmental, that you don’t scholarship and that kind of teach- relevance of Beaumont and Fletcher like what they’re saying. So in ing is very meaningful and students to Shakespeare than to... many ways, I mean, I find that respond to it. But I also think with what we get to teach or most there’s really a place for the kind of They’re feeding off what’s effective are people who are quite teaching that I do, which is really expected of them... comfortable with who they are, kind of like a constant confronta- Exactly, exactly. I mean, you know, who enjoy kind of listening as well tion with what do you believe and you will hear people who bitch and as teaching, who really, I mean in what will make you happy. And groan about, “Oh God. I mean, many ways the model of Socrates as that’s why both a psychological and what does this stuff have to do with the midwife who really doesn’t pull meditational kind of interests have my life?” But hey, I mean, you got information in but somehow finds a kind of had an impact, you know, offered the job at sort of way for people to give birth to in terms of like: How, in this Northwestern, you went. I mean, themselves is really the kind of moment, do I affect my state? you know what I’m saying? It’s like teaching that has to happen at so, so, I think that in most colleges, Senior Seminar. And it’s not always certainly graduate schools, the question of like “Will this material

273 An Oral History Of Columbia College Chicago Bill Hayashi

easy to find those people who are And I would imagine that you feel ...anything and seven people in a comfortable and have the real skills, this is relative to all disciplines, department of, I don’t know, the human communication skills, I mean, this community included. seventy-five, I mean that has to to really provide an atmosphere in And then my next question leads be frustrating to some kind conti- which this kind of exploration can into, the next question about nuity. And I know, I’m not talking happen. Not just kind of like a talk challenges facing Columbia in a about status in the classroom but show kind of stuff, but also a way specific department, how can you even those kinds of goals that to teach skills of self-reflection so do that or help teachers to do you were... that they really have to look at that when you have so many part- No, that’s really right, yeah, right, what’s behind that and what’s the timers in such a flux? right. core value underlying that. And I think it’s very hard with so many then setting up a context in which part-time people. And I think more So, you know, even say that as a people can talk about different of the school funds should be really historian is teaching it as perspectives respectfully and put into faculty development and history, you might want to pay honestly, so that at least people teacher training. There’s some more attention to history films, consider that there are other stipends for attending these teacher even something as simple as options that maybe other people development things or teaching that. would see as more valid here to and learning committee events. But Exactly, or show film in your class them than these others. So it’s not I think it would be great for there or anything. simply, we’re not simply encourag- to be more sort of consistent work- So I’m kind of getting off the ing students to kind of vent, but shops on, you know, like, you track of it but I was interested, then also kind of like reflect on know, just experiential teaching or and it’s obviously a challenge this, what are they really saying, I just things that would really offer... that Columbia’s gonna be facing. mean, is that really what they Any other challenges, you’ve believe? If that is so, I mean, why A lot of us came to Columbia just talked about growth, you’ve do all these other students really because they needed people to talked about, you know, the prob- question whether or not you are teach, you know, whatever it lems associated with bureau- being honest? For me, the question was: literature, social studies, cracy, but if you could look back that always comes up is like: How psychology. And I don’t think at some of the challenges do you keep this from being just there’s any orientation saying, Columbia has come from or chal- moral relativism where anything “This is a different place or we’d lenges you see on the horizon anybody says is OK? And the way like to achieve a different place that, you know, that we haven’t that I respond to that is that I or an open...” Yes, right, right. Yeah, I think mentioned already. always ask the other students what See, one of the challenges, I think, they think. And we’ve created a there really has to be more atten- tion placed on, you know, teacher would be just the decision: At what community, ideally, in which point are they going to stop people feel comfortable speaking training, teaching at Columbia kind of, and also just workshops, making Columbia bigger? I mean, their voices and teaching ways of I just think that’s a real issue. You disagreeing that are respectful. And just kind of concrete and pedagogi- cal techniques to use, you know? know, it’s great to constantly because there’s this difference of increase our enrollment by ten opinion, it doesn’t ever come out to And that faculty be paid to do these workshops, you know? I percent each year but I think at be like one totally right answer. some point it just has to be, “That’s And again, I don’t think we’re in mean, they’re already so underpaid. So I think really, I mean, the school enough.” You know? Let’s really, the position to teach the totally you know, stop growing and really right answer but to create a kind of has to really stand behind this kind of support for innovative and consolidate what we have. Another a way, a kind of reflecting, taking thing that I really feel concerned in, considering, that I think is Columbia student oriented teach- ing. about is how to provide more really crucial to the kind of like the opportunity to the students to examining life, you know? Because there isn’t... really form a sense of community No, there isn’t anything.

274 Bill Hayashi An Oral History Of Columbia College Chicago

here at Columbia. I mean, it really It was very touching to me, actu- strongest factor influencing shocked me really, when we were ally, that in two of the sections of students’ values is pure values, pure doing this study of the focus Senior Seminar, when it came time community. And so often what groups for Senior Seminar. One of for graduation, the students makes a real difference in terms of the main things that kept coming decided that we were going to sit what they believe and what they up about what students were really next to each other because that was live is affected by their life in the worried about is they were afraid the community that they had dorms and what their peers think is that they’d lose their sense of formed at Columbia. And even really cool, etc., like the whole community. Particularly in terms of though, you know, I mean... influence of fraternities on the a community that would foster values. It’s really, you know, really kind of their doing intellectual and Is that a semester course? across the board the main factor creative exploration, self-explo- It’s a semester, that’s right. that really seems consistent in ration. And it struck me as ironic steady influence is peer group because, you know, where do you And how long, just so we have influence. And they don’t have have this community? We don’t this down, how long has it been much opportunity for that here, have any clubs, we don’t have any going on? you know what I’m saying, for place to meet and yet this is all It’s been going on for three semes- good or for bad, you know? But I they have, you know? I mean the ters. It began in the Spring of ‘97, just think we’re not aware of just classroom, the, you know, and it right, right, right. You know... how important peer community is just showed me how hungry the I interrupted you. You were talk- in terms of affecting the lifestyle kids are for some sense of commu- ing about how they decided to sit and values of our students. nity. So I compare it to, you know, together at graduation. I think, and partly in response to you know, I went to schools that Yes, it was just very touching to me what you’re saying, it’s your have campuses where you join how, you now, that they didn’t sit interview, but I think to a certain organizations where, you know, a with the Film students, they didn’t extent that Columbia students dorm even, but to them this is the sit with, you know, I mean with... that I’ve known not through community that they do have and And they really wanted to sit with teaching here but have come here they value it so much and they’re each other and they did even if it through parents, friends, that terrified that when they leave was screwing up the alphabetical many of them are so happy to Columbia their community will be order, because to them it really find a place where they’re not gone. And so, you know, I’m think- mattered. They wanted to leave seen as weird. So I agree with ing, “Well, if there’s this much with some sense that they had what you’re saying that there effect with just so little, imagine somebody to share this experience. seems to be so little but, like the impact if you really have, you And to me that, you know, that you said, they’re still grateful for know, a student activities board really speaks a lot to the need for what they have; maybe as the that would really like find out what community of a young person former outcasts that here’s a the students are really kind of living in Chicago, but also to some- interested in in terms of like films place where... thing that Columbia should think That’s right. But you see, this is or music or whatnot, and then sort more about. I mean, especially as it of offer those and organizations also where the pressure really gets bigger and in a certain sense builds when they’re seniors. around those that support those. I more bureaucratic, where are the just think that, particularly living Because the weirdos have taken a students going to—I actually risk to come here and now they in the city at a commuter school, attended a conference on student and again, it’s not going to be easy have to go back into—because values earlier this spring in people are always asking them, because kids are doing so many Tallahassee, Florida, and I actually different things, but I think you including parents, “Well, what are gave a paper on the Senior Seminar you going to do? How will you could really find activities and there. But one of the things that groups that would attract some of make a living? Who’s gonna pay really struck me is that all these your health insurance?” And like the students, you know? And as it studies have said that the single keeps getting bigger, you know, all of a sudden they’re confronted there’s gotta be some sense of their with the fact that all of a sudden being connected with other people. now they have to go back again and

275 An Oral History Of Columbia College Chicago Bill Hayashi

deal with the world in which support right at those times when, have no sense of like what they’re they’re weirdos, you know? How do now they’re being hit in the face offering to their culture, you know? they make that transition, you with, “God, why didn’t you do So yes, I think what we’re doing in know? What are the options, the what I told you to, kid? I told you Senior Seminar is something that is real options that they can take? you’d never be making a buck. I going to become quite salient told you you should sort of just be across the country in colleges. But So in a way you’re saying too responsible and do what you’re it’s always going to have a unique that this seminar might be, it has supposed to do.” And it’s like, you twist to it because of the nature of to be unique and different there know, it’s why it’s so freaky for our school. because of the population that them to leave because all of a we’re serving. sudden they have to deal again Well, it’s nice to see, maybe, Absolutely, it has to serve our with like, “Oh my God, maybe Columbia at the forefront of students’ needs. mom and dad were right. Maybe I something again. It seems like it made a big mistake. How am I was at the forefront and then Right, and that comes right back going to hold on to my dream? I people talked about, “It’s leaning to your first statement about mean, is there some way I can hold towards mainstream and stan- serving the needs of our school. on to my dream and still make a dards.” But there seems to That’s right, that’s right. Yeah, in living?” Almost all of them have to always still be that push. fact in terms of Senior Seminar, in compromise their dream in some Yes, yes. And I think that’s really, my class just last week they started way. How do you do that? So it’s in some ways, part of the value of talking about the work, you know, really, I mean again, the more we this project. I mean, there was what can I do about the work? But talk I’m really analyzing that something that the old Columbia then the real question came up it’s Senior Seminar has to be quite represented that I think is impor- like, what were the pressures that different than what, although it’s tant to kind of keep in conscious- you had to live with to even come also interesting, this whole ques- ness; kind of find a way of integrat- here? And what, you know, what, tion of values is just, you know, ing that into whatever changes do your friends, you know, like this character education is just kind of occur of necessity. You know, and I one kid who was so great, he talked hitting the country, at least at kind think it’s very valuable to be aware about going back to the school in of elementary high school and level of what the spirit of Columbia Ohio. A number of students have and so it’s starting to now filter College is all about and how to, flunked out of other schools and into the colleges and the character, you know, how to keep that alive in they come here. And part of the this whole question of... some way given the needs for, you reason that they flunk out is that know, expansion, bureaucracy, and they just didn’t get along with Yeah, not to say that this exact standardization, and all that stuff. those values. So this one kid went course wouldn’t be valuable. back to one of those schools and That’s right, that’s right. But I You’re obviously very proud of like he was starting to freak out a think there’s a kind of a unique Senior Seminar; other memories little bit because, you know, all his twist of like what characters filter that you’re particularly proud of, friends had fifty-thousand dollar through, also the role of being an events or... jobs lined up. And he said he knew, artist and a media creator, you I guess, I guess this is a story that I before he went that they were know, so that yes. But I do think like to share because it’s just, it’s so going to ask him, “What are you this whole thing of character educa- typical of kind of like what I value going to be doing, Ryan?” And he tion or value education, is really, about teaching here and how the said, what his answer was, “I’m it’s gonna really enter into the students respond. And I’ve taught graduating from an arts media mainstream now of higher educa- this course, Philosophy of Love, for college without a major and I’m tion practice. In fact, someone from many, many years. glad.” He said that. And I just saw Julliard was actually talking to me from that, even with choice to about their program of values and What is it? come here, these kids are taking the the artist that they’re starting at Philosophy of Love, right. I was in risk and they’re going against the Julliard because they’re really the elevator and I had one of the mainstream. And they really need concerned about this issue that, you books for the course in my hand. know, as fledgling artists that they

276 Bill Hayashi An Oral History Of Columbia College Chicago

And this student who I have never their lives. met before says, “Hey, are you that Hayashi guy that teaches I think that’s it, right at the tail Philosophy of Love?’ And I said, end. “Yeah, I teach Philosophy of Love.” Good. And he said, “Well, I hear it’s a great course. I hear you’ll never fall in love again, but I hear it’s a great course.” And that just really tickled me, you know, because I just real- ized that, you know, they’re authentic, you know? I mean, they want to know about love so that it affects their lives, you know? And it’s a great course, you’ll never fall in love again, but it’s a great course. And, you know, that made me reflect that I am coming down a little bit hard on the narcissism stuff. Maybe I should really like tone it down a little bit and, you know, kind of that it’s not simply romantic, you know, idealizing narcissism, it’s all I’ve kind of offered; sort of my approach some- what, you know what I’m saying? But it’s just like, but it just tickled me, that incident, because it just spoke to why I love teaching here and why I’ll always teach the way that I teach. I mean, you know, in a course on love they should really discover what’s keeping them from loving. And is the way they’re loving in a romantic way just bound to fail because of unex- pected, you know, unrealistic expectations and is it just a fantasy combined with lust? And these kids want that, they’re very no bullshit, you know? Really, when they can be themselves, they know how to put on the mask and play the game but really, they’re here because they have a vision. They’re here because their heart and their spirits want something and they really want that in all aspects of

277