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Home , Abbotsford South, Delta North, Kelowna West, Nechako Lakes, Pam Alexis, Peace River North

First Session, 42nd Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday, March 23, 2021 Morning Sitting Issue No. 38

THE HONOURABLE , SPEAKER

ISSN 1499-2175 PROVINCE OF (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC

First Session, 42nd Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Raj Chouhan

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Training...... Hon. Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries...... Hon. Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Housing ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Minister of State for Child Care...... Hon. Minister of Citizens’ Services...... Hon. Minister of Education ...... Hon. Minister of Energy, Mines and Low Carbon Innovation ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy...... Hon. Minister of Finance ...... Hon. Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ...... Hon. Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations...... Hon. Minister of Health and Minister Responsible for Francophone Afairs...... Hon. Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. , QC Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation...... Hon. Minister of State for Trade...... Hon. Minister of Labour ...... Hon. Minister of Mental Health and Addictions...... Hon. Minister of Municipal Afairs ...... Hon. Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ...... Hon. Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction...... Hon. Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport ...... Hon. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon. Minister of State for Infrastructure ...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Ofcial Opposition...... Leader of the Tird Party ...... Deputy Speaker...... Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel...... Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services...... Artour Sogomonian Clerk of Committees...... Jennifer Arril Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ...... Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst...... Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms...... Greg Nelson ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Alexis, Pam (BC NDP) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Abbotsford-Mission...... Pam Alexis Anderson, Brittny (BC NDP) ...... Nelson-Creston ...... Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal Party)...... Penticton ...... Michael de Jong, QC Babchuk, Michele (BC NDP)...... North Island Boundary-Similkameen...... Bailey, Brenda (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–False Creek Burnaby–Deer Lake...... Hon. Anne Kang Bains, Hon. Harry (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Burnaby-Edmonds...... Hon. Raj Chouhan Banman, Bruce (BC Liberal Party) ...... Abbotsford South Burnaby-Lougheed...... Hon. Katrina Chen Beare, Hon. Lisa (BC NDP) ...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ...... Begg, Garry (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Guildford Cariboo-Chilcotin ...... Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...... South ...... Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal Party)...... Prince George–Valemount Chilliwack ...... Brar, Jagrup (BC NDP)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Chilliwack-Kent ...... Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal Party) ...... –Revelstoke ...... Chandra Herbert, Spencer (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–West End Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...... Chant, Susie (BC NDP) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Coquitlam-Maillardville ...... Hon. Selina Robinson Chen, Hon. Katrina (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby-Lougheed Courtenay-Comox...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Chouhan, Hon. Raj (BC NDP)...... Burnaby-Edmonds Cowichan Valley ...... Sonia Furstenau Chow, Hon. George (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Fraserview ...... Hon. Ravi Kahlon Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal Party)...... Columbia River–Revelstoke ...... Conroy, Hon. Katrine (BC NDP)...... Kootenay West Esquimalt-Metchosin ...... Hon. Mitzi Dean Coulter, Dan (BC NDP) ...... Chilliwack Fraser-Nicola ...... Cullen, Hon. Nathan (BC NDP) ...... Stikine Kamloops–North Tompson ...... Davies, Dan (BC Liberal Party)...... Kamloops–South Tompson...... de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal Party)...... Abbotsford West –Lake Country ...... Norm Letnick Dean, Hon. Mitzi (BC NDP) ...... Esquimalt-Metchosin Kelowna-Mission ...... Renee Merrifeld D’Eith, Bob (BC NDP) ...... Maple Ridge–Mission ...... Dix, Hon. Adrian (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Kingsway Kootenay East...... Doerkson, Lorne (BC Liberal Party) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Kootenay West...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Donnelly, Fin (BC NDP) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Langford–Juan de Fuca ...... Hon. John Horgan Dykeman, Megan (BC NDP)...... Langley ...... Eby, Hon. David, QC (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Langley East...... Elmore, Mable (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Kensington Maple Ridge–Mission...... Bob D’Eith Farnworth, Hon. Mike (BC NDP) ...... Port Coquitlam Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...... Hon. Lisa Beare Fleming, Hon. Rob (BC NDP) ...... Victoria–Swan Lake Mid Island–Pacifc Rim...... Hon. Josie Osborne Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ...... Cowichan Valley Nanaimo...... Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Glumac, Rick (BC NDP) ...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... Greene, Kelly (BC NDP) ...... Richmond-Steveston Nechako Lakes...... Halford, Trevor (BC Liberal Party)...... Surrey–White Rock Nelson-Creston ...... Heyman, Hon. George (BC NDP) ...... Vancouver-Fairview New Westminster...... Hon. Jennifer Whiteside Horgan, Hon. John (BC NDP) ...... Langford–Juan de Fuca North Coast ...... Kahlon, Hon. Ravi (BC NDP) ...... Delta North North Island...... Kang, Hon. Anne (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby–Deer Lake North Vancouver–Lonsdale...... Hon. Bowinn Ma Kirkpatrick, Karin (BC Liberal Party)...... West Vancouver–Capilano North Vancouver–Seymour...... Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal Party)...... Shuswap Oak Bay–Gordon Head...... Hon. Murray Rankin, QC Lee, Michael (BC Liberal Party)...... Vancouver-Langara Parksville-Qualicum...... Adam Walker Leonard, Ronna-Rae (BC NDP)...... Courtenay-Comox Peace River North ...... Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kelowna–Lake Country ...... Lore, Grace (BC NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill Penticton ...... Ma, Hon. Bowinn (BC NDP)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Port Coquitlam...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Malcolmson, Hon. Sheila (BC NDP)...... Nanaimo Port Moody–Coquitlam...... Mark, Hon. Melanie (BC NDP)...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Powell River–Sunshine Coast...... Hon. Nicholas Simons Mercier, Andrew (BC NDP) ...... Langley Prince George–Mackenzie...... Merrifeld, Renee (BC Liberal Party)...... Kelowna-Mission Prince George–Valemount ...... Shirley Bond Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kamloops–North Tompson ...... Morris, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Richmond-Queensborough...... Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal Party)...... Cariboo North ...... Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)...... Saanich North and the Islands Richmond-Steveston ...... Osborne, Hon. Josie (BC NDP)...... Mid Island–Pacifc Rim Saanich North and the Islands ...... Paddon, Kelli (BC NDP) ...... Chilliwack-Kent ...... Hon. Lana Popham Paton, Ian (BC Liberal Party) ...... Delta South Shuswap...... Popham, Hon. Lana (BC NDP)...... Saanich South Skeena...... Ralston, Hon. Bruce, QC (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Stikine...... Hon. Nathan Cullen Rankin, Hon. Murray, QC (BC NDP) ...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Surrey-Cloverdale ...... Rice, Jennifer (BC NDP) ...... North Coast Surrey-Fleetwood...... Jagrup Brar Robinson, Hon. Selina (BC NDP)...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey–Green Timbers...... Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal Party)...... Skeena Surrey-Guildford...... Routledge, Janet (BC NDP) ...... Burnaby North Surrey-Newton...... Hon. Harry Bains Routley, Doug (BC NDP)...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Panorama ...... Russell, Roly (BC NDP)...... Boundary-Similkameen Surrey South ...... Rustad, John (BC Liberal Party)...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Whalley ...... Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Sandhu, Harwinder (BC NDP) ...... Vernon-Monashee Surrey–White Rock ...... Sharma, Niki (BC NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Vancouver-Fairview...... Hon. George Heyman Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal Party)...... Kootenay East Vancouver–False Creek...... Simons, Hon. Nicholas (BC NDP)...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Vancouver-Fraserview...... Hon. George Chow Sims, Jinny (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Panorama Vancouver-Hastings ...... Singh, Aman (BC NDP) ...... Richmond-Queensborough Vancouver-Kensington...... Singh, Rachna (BC NDP)...... Surrey–Green Timbers Vancouver-Kingsway...... Hon. Adrian Dix Starchuk, Mike (BC NDP) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale Vancouver-Langara...... Michael Lee Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kelowna West Vancouver–Mount Pleasant...... Hon. Melanie Mark Stone, Todd (BC Liberal Party) ...... Kamloops–South Tompson Vancouver–Point Grey ...... Hon. David Eby, QC Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal Party) ...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Quilchena...... , QC Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal Party)...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver–West End ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Walker, Adam (BC NDP)...... Parksville-Qualicum Vernon-Monashee ...... Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal Party) ...... Richmond North Centre Victoria–Beacon Hill...... Whiteside, Hon. Jennifer (BC NDP) ...... New Westminster Victoria–Swan Lake...... Hon. Rob Fleming Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal Party)...... Vancouver-Quilchena West Vancouver–Capilano...... Yao, Henry (BC NDP) ...... Richmond South Centre West Vancouver–Sea to Sky......

Party Standings: BC NDP 57; BC Liberal Party 28; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS

Tuesday, March 23, 2021 Morning Sitting Page

Routine Business

Introductions by Members...... 945

Statements (Standing Order 25B) ...... 945 Spring freshet and fooding J. Tegart Resilience of arts sector B. D’Eith Salmon population and pinniped predation J. Sturdy Inclusive language S. Chandra Herbert Medical travel service for M. Bernier Volunteers in Richmond K. Greene

Oral Questions...... 948 Addiction services in Interior Health Authority and status of Pathways Centre S. Bond Hon. S. Malcolmson T. Halford Government involvement in Supreme Court case on rights of municipalities A. Olsen Hon. D. Eby Impact of proposed U.S. legislation on cruise ship industry M. de Jong Hon. M. Mark T. Stone COVID-19 response for tourism industry and report recommendations T. Wat Hon. M. Mark

Orders of the Day

Committee of the Whole House...... 953 Bill 10 — Supply Act (No. 1), 2021 M. Bernier Hon. S. Robinson A. Olsen

945

TUESDAY, MARCH 23, 2021 power and provide resources and services that represent, connect and beneft their membership. Te House met at 10:04 a.m. Would the House please welcome all of the Simon Fraser University students in the Legislature virtually [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] today.

Routine Business Hon. M. Mark: Joining us from the gallery today is my constituency assistant and friend Amanda Bouchard. Prayers and refections: K. Kirkpatrick. Amanda joined my constituency team last year. She [10:05 a.m.] stepped up to support my constituents in a pivotal moment during this COVID-19 pandemic. She has a long Introductions by Members history as an advocate for women in the Downtown East- side as the founder of the Vancouver chapter of PEERS, J. Tegart: We are joined in the House today by a dear which supported women exiting the sex trade. She is also friend to many members of this House, Lynn Klein. Lynn an extremely successful business consultant, supporting is a long-serving public servant, former paramedic, ambu- people to realize their entrepreneurial dreams. I’m so hon- lance service employee, historian, author and champion oured that she’s joining us today on her birthday. Amanda, of the frst cardiopulmonary resuscitation program in congratulations on this important milestone. Canada. While living in Victoria, Lynn had an exemplary Would the House please join me in welcoming Amanda attendance record in visiting the proceedings of this and wishing her a very happy birthday. House. Lynn and his wife, Sharon, now reside in the Cowi- chan Valley. We’re so very happy to have Lynn join us here Statements today. (Standing Order 25B)

B. Stewart: It gives me great pleasure to wish my sister SPRING FRESHET AND FLOODING Andrea McFadden a happy birthday on her 60th birthday today. Andrea is unique in the sense that she is following J. Tegart: I’m pleased to rise in the House today to in her grandfather’s footsteps. Her grandfather Richard talk about an event which happens with yearly regularity John Stewart was a horticulturalist, lover of roses and throughout my riding and your ridings too. breeder of the Royal Stewart. [10:10 a.m.] Andrea founded and operates Okanagan Lavender It’s not an event that many in my riding are looking for- Farm, which has received global recognition for the ward to, due to the most recent experiences which have products that it produces. She also is well known as a occurred in the communities. Te event is spring freshet. world-class blogger, from eye rejuvenation pads to bug It is the time of year when residents, community leaders hotels that can be built anywhere. and community volunteers watch the water fow with keen Andrea is an adventurer, risk-taker, mischievous, with a interest. My riding has been severely afected over the past twinkle in her eye, animal lover, kind and loves her fam- fve years by unusually high fows of spring runof. Tere ily. Married to David McFadden, children are Rory, and have been many theories as to what the cause is, but Alyssa and Lachlan; Keely, and Fabien and their newborn whatever your theory is, the reality is that every spring, son Sebastian, or “Sebby” for short; and Liam, who’s the people who live on or near a stream, a river or a lake watch new proprietor of Steephouse products. with trepidation as the water begins to rise. Andrea is business savvy, has incredible leadership skills Mountain pine beetle logging, wildfres, climate change and minimizes her footprints in the world. I just want to and land usage have all afected the ability of the land to wish Andrea a happy 60th birthday today. absorb water. Rules about equipment use in waterways. Inability to clear blockages without multiple levels of per- C. Oakes: I, too, would like to recognize Lynn and just mission. Lack of recognition of the importance of prevent- say how much I have appreciated his contact and his ative work. Another year goes by, and we are into fooding emails over COVID. It means a lot that you care so much season again. It afects communities, waterfront com- about the Legislature and the MLAs in it, so thank you. munities, agricultural areas, to name a few. Joining us today in the Legislature virtually is the Simon We all talk about climate change, but people in the rid- Fraser Student Society, a student-led, non-proft organiz- ing of Fraser-Nicola are asking for action from all of us ation that represents over 25,000 undergraduate students in this House. We lost a beloved fre chief in a food. We from across the three campuses of Simon Fraser University are losing waterfront homes. We are losing infrastructure, in Burnaby, Vancouver and Surrey, British Columbia. such as highways. Teir mission is to advocate for students, build student And still we only talk. We seem to have the dollars to react. Let’s fip that over and start working on prevention. 946 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 23, 2021

RESILIENCE OF ARTS SECTOR Seals and sea lions have been hunted by First Nations for millennia and by others since contact. However, since the B. D’Eith: It’s very nice to rise in person in the House to 1970s, they have been protected. According to Rob Bison, highlight the amazing resiliency the arts sector has shown fsheries stock assessment biologist with the Ministry of during this difcult time. Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations, pinniped When the pandemic hit last spring, I was asked by the populations in the have increased from, Premier to talk to arts groups. One of those groups was the in the 1970s, less than 10,000 animals to more than 80,000 Cultch in East Vancouver. Te Cultch is a cultural hub that animals today. Over that same period, chinook and coho champions artistic expression and diversity. Tey bring salmon populations have had a converse trajectory, with world-class performances to the heart of East Vancou- smolt survival during transition to open ocean appearing ver. Like so many arts centres across the province, they’re to be tremendously afected. doing their best to respond to the new normal and keep According to Carl Walters, professor emeritus at UBC’s people safe. Tey stopped performances and closed the Institute for Oceans and Fisheries: “Most of the drop in theatre. Tey told us they needed to keep the lights on, and survival of chinook and coho in Georgia Strait since the they also asked for fexibility. We listened. 1980s is likely due to seals eating juvenile fsh during their Te B.C. Arts Council advanced operating funding to frst summer in the ocean.” Estimates suggest that seals arts organizations across the province and allowed organ- may be consuming fve million juvenile coho each year, or izations the fexibility to pivot their programs to adapt to about half the area’s annual juvenile population. Up to 15 the pandemic. So did Creative B.C., pivoting the Ampli- million chinook juveniles meet the same fate, or about a fy B.C. $7.5 million program to sustain and stabilize the third of that juvenile population. music industry, including a program that provided hun- In terms of returning spawners, any recreational fsher dreds of microgrants to artists and musicians. Relief and among you will have the experience with pinnipeds support in the right places allowed these resilient organ- when you have a fsh on your line. While freshwater con- izations to keep creating incredible content and covering ditions, ocean conditions and marine competition for their overhead. feed are very relevant, pinniped predation is by far the Te Cultch was among many organizations that shifed most impactful variable on the survival of chinook and their presenting during the program. Actually, according coho, from smolts to spawners. to the Globe and Mail, they’ve become the leading cultural Predator management for critically endangered prey organization to provide streaming live performances in species, while difcult to embrace, must be given serious Canada. Heather Redfern — she’s the executive director — consideration as a tool by DFO as we collectively support said: “When we were faced with uncertainty, getting sup- the survival of resident orcas and the traditional salmon port from the province was vital.” culture of British Columbia’s First Nations. Te Cultch is not alone. So many organizations have found new and innovative ways to connect with their audi- INCLUSIVE LANGUAGE ences. As the Parliamentary Secretary for Arts and Film, I’m honoured to be working with the Minister of Tourism, S. Chandra Herbert: I was in kindergarten, and I ended Arts, Culture and Sport to support this amazing sector. up in the principal’s ofce. Why was I in the principal’s Together we will help the arts and culture sector weather ofce? I said something which I shouldn’t have. A kid had the storm. told me that I should call another kid “gay,” so I did. Te I’m so looking forward to the day that we can all enjoy teacher, afer the kid complained, said: “Well, gay means performances together again in person. But for now, I happy. Gay means joyous. Don’t worry about it. But you encourage everyone, please, enjoy the virtual art that these still have to go to the principal’s ofce.” amazing, resilient organizations are presenting. I don’t think I learned very much that day. My whole life would have changed if we’d actually talked about many SALMON POPULATION of these other issues. But that being said, I want to talk AND PINNIPED PREDATION about words: words we use, words that matter, words that change cultures, words that invite inclusivity and words J. Sturdy: Last week I explored the lack of a science that exclude. In the role of Deputy Speaker, I listen a lot, as basis for the federal government’s ill-informed decision to do you, hon. Speaker. curtail recreation fshing for chinook around I speak personally, but some of the language I hear, I and the south coast during the 2020 season. Te concern consider probably ableist. I have asked friends with dis- remains that this restriction will be repeated again this abilities, and they agree. Words like “lame,” a word that, year, despite chinook stocks being virtually absent during I checked, we used 14 times in the House in the last ten this chinook fshing prohibition. What is not absent, years. Not that much, but enough to suggest that having a however, is the overwhelming presence of pinnipeds. physical impairment, like lameness, is a bad thing. I don’t [10:15 a.m.] Tuesday, March 23, 2021 British Columbia Debates 947 think we should use that phrase. If we want to talk about I want to give a big shout-out and a big thanks to all something that didn’t work, let’s say it didn’t work. of them for their dedication to the people in their com- Other word we use. We ofen talk about people turning munity. blind eyes, deaf ears. We spoke about people who are actu- ally blind 71 times in the House. We used the word “blind” VOLUNTEERS IN RICHMOND or “blind eye” 204 times in the last ten years as a negative. If you’re blind, how do you think that makes you feel? K. Greene: Te Richmond Cares, Richmond Gives If you’re deaf, we talked about the deaf community 92 Volunteers Are Stars Awards are just around the corner. times. We used it as a negative 80 times. Again, probably Sadly, we are not able to join each other in person this not very helpful. “Crazy,” we used 206 times. Again, we year, but there are no shortage of amazing volunteers who should be talking about mental illness and not using some- not only uplif members of our community but also inspire one’s physical or mental difculties as something to slam others. each other with. Te Nova Star Award nominees. Maisy Debray, Mamas We can do better. I hope we all work hard to understand for Mamas Vancouver. Maisy has helped mothers, families that our language matters and make sure it’s inclusive. and children in need with supplies, food and emotional support. She’s also organized community support to meet MEDICAL TRAVEL SERVICE these needs. FOR TUMBLER RIDGE Patricia Lang, auxiliary Richmond RCMP. Patricia has volunteered over 4,800 hours to help Richmond residents M. Bernier: Afer the coal mines shut down in Tumbler in the areas of community safety and property crime Ridge, many workers and families moved away. But many prevention. also found this beautiful community to be a great place to Jat Puri, West Richmond Community Association retire. Tat, however, has brought other challenges for an board and RCRG board. Jat is an RCRG Youth Now ment- area that has not kept up with the medical needs of its cit- or for young board members. He has trained hundreds of izens. volunteers and is on the board of Heart of Richmond AIDS Around 20 years ago, a small group of people in Tum- Society. Jat’s optimism is uplifing. bler Ridge saw their neighbours struggling to get to neigh- Rowena Silver-Bridson, Kehila Society of Richmond bouring communities like , Grande Prairie and Beth Tikvah Congregation. Early in the pandemic, and Fort St. John for critical medical appointments. So Rowena started a weekly food service delivery program they stepped up to ensure that those that were sick or eld- for seniors and other isolated individuals in need. She also erly would not be forced to miss out on the services they supports families going through Jewish life-cycle events. so desperately need. Don Taylor, West Richmond Community Association [10:20 a.m.] board. Don is president of WRCA and has helped organ- TR CARES was formed, and volunteers came forward to ized all the signature events at WRCC. Don is always the drive community members that were unable to take them- frst to volunteer with a smile on his face, and his upbeat selves to their medical needs in other communities, some- attitude is contagious. times driving hundreds of kilometres in a day, regard- Ray Wang, RCRG board. Ray is on the RCRG board and less of the weather or conditions. Over the years, they’ve also volunteers with the Richmond Christmas fund. He served hundreds of people who otherwise would have also volunteers with the Better at Home shop-by-phone struggled or been forced to even move away from the program, where he flls grocery orders for seniors to sup- small community. As with most volunteers for non-proft port their well-being. groups, they’re always spending time looking for help and Rosina Yip, Chimo Community Services. Rosina has for donations. helped over 400 vulnerable residents access community One of my personal highlights as an MLA is taking part services and is known for embodying Chimo’s vision. Ros- in the annual TR CARES charity golf tournament. Tose ina continues to volunteer, even afer her 2018 ALS dia- who have golfed with me know that I probably spend the gnosis. majority of that time getting chased by grizzly bears and I wish I had the time to say more about the great work looking for my ball in the bushes. these amazing people have done. Please join me in thank- Tumbler Ridge, though, has survived so many setbacks ing these star volunteers for their contributions to Rich- over the years thanks to the passion of the people who live mond. We are so fortunate to have them. there. TR CARES is completely volunteer. I want to thank the over 100 people who have come forward over the years to give up their time, especially the current board: Aman- da Coulson, Christine Vandeburgt, Gail Newman, Rose Snyder, Angie Robertson, Erin Wanvig and Floyd Frank. 948 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 23, 2021

Oral Questions this House and speaks in glowing terms about an organ- ization that has been a lifeline for people in Pentic- ADDICTION SERVICES IN ton and beyond. Instead of standing up and making a INTERIOR HEALTH AUTHORITY decision to preserve those resources, she explains that AND STATUS OF PATHWAYS CENTRE Interior Health may be confdent. Well, the residents of Penticton are not, and it is this member’s responsibility S. Bond: Te mayor of Penticton feels that his com- to stand up and do something. munity is being bullied by this government. Here’s what Here’s what Gord Portman had to say. He has ten he had to say: “My community went berserk. Te Attorney months clean. He’s got a support group. He has a counsel- General instigating people to break the law. Tat’s not lor. Now this government has decided, in the middle of a right. Tat’s unethical. We are losing trust in our ministers. pandemic, to shif the services provided to the people of I’dlike to beg the Premier to please talk to the minister and Penticton. Here’s what Gord had to say: “I don’t like this cool him down.” situation. I am happy with where I am at Pathways. Tere Tat’s not all. Now it’s the Pathways Addictions are good services. I know the people, and I trust them.” Resource Centre that is being defunded by this govern- What Gord would say to the minister today is that it’s ment. Here’s what Dawn Swanson had to say: “Pathways time for her to stand up and ensure that the services that has kept my body and my soul together for many years. I have made a diference in his life and so many others are thought I would lose my daughter, and I didn’t know how preserved — not stand and make a case on behalf of Interi- to cope. I lost my son this July in Calgary to fentanyl. My or Health. It’s her job to stand up and take responsibility husband, my daughter, myself — they have kept us togeth- for services provided to the people of Penticton. er. I just can’t have them go away.” Pathways has been serving people for nearly 50 years. Te minister refuses to take responsibility, so perhaps Tey serve more than 1,200 people a year. Somehow this the Premier can stand up today and take some action. minister and Premier think it’s appropriate, in the middle Will the Premier today commit to maintaining the of a pandemic, to shut the doors on this vital service. funding and ensuring that the Pathways program, so des- It’s time for the Premier to stand up today and ensure perately needed and so efective, continues? that this vital program, the Pathways program, continues. [10:25 a.m.] Hon. S. Malcolmson: Tere will be no disruption to the Hon. S. Malcolmson: Tat front-line organizations in service that people in Penticton have been receiving for the non-proft sector held together British Columbia’s mental health and addictions counselling. We, as a gov- tenuous system of care for both mental health and addic- ernment, are doing the work to build up a system of care tions for such a long time is a testament to their service where one did not exist before, where people can enter the and their dedication to looking afer people in their deep- system and receive all of their primary care and mental est time of need. health and addictions services in one place. Pathways has been a valued member of the Penticton Tis is going to beneft the South Okanagan region. community, and we are grateful for their contracted ser- Because the population of the South Okanagan has grown, vice to Interior Health. because we need to be able to expand services and reach As I’ve said last week and, I believe, the week before, people in a new way, bringing it inside the health authority Interior Health is confdent that no one is going to be lef is the evidence-based decision that the Interior Health behind by the action of bringing the services that Path- Authority has made. ways used to provide in-house, making them available I’ll remind the member, too, that we are expanding ser- along a much wider continuum of care and making them vices in that region in other ways. Te urgent primary care available to people throughout the South Okanagan centre that is opening right now in Penticton is particu- region. Tere will be no disruption while the service is larly dedicated. It has mental health and addictions sup- transferred in-house. port as its primary focus. I’ll remind the members opposite that this is the call we Tis is the way we’re building a system of care. Tis hear from people so ofen. We want to bring mental health is the way we’re moving forward, knowing there is much and addictions inside the health care system so that when more to do. people reach out for help, whether it’s a physical injury or a [10:30 a.m.] psychic one, they’ll be able to get the help they need. Tat is the work that is at hand. T. Halford: Te fact is that this minister is not expand- ing services. She’s actually closing services. Mr. Speaker: Te Leader of the Ofcial Opposition on Te Premier said: “Trust me. Te service is going to a supplemental. improve.” Pathways is closing. Keremeos is not reopening. Te Sequoia and Alder youth recovery homes in Vancou- S. Bond: Well, it’s interesting. Te minister stands in ver are closing, despite the government actually promoting Tuesday, March 23, 2021 British Columbia Debates 949

them as resources. Carrier-Sekani — stopped by this gov- Hon. S. Malcolmson: In fact, as part of the work that ernment. Tere is a pattern here. is ongoing to build a system of care for mental health and Tis government has reduced services and taken away treatment support, here are the new services that Interi- treatment options for people in need. Te minister and or Health is ofering that have been…. Some of them just this Premier say that people in need and those sufering opened this month. from addictions should be pleased with the services Ten government-funded youth treatment beds came brought in by this government. I disagree. online in the Interior. Tey’re helping people right now. My question is to the Premier. Will he do the right thing Five new innovated integrated treatment teams and stop the defunding of Pathways and unveil a plan that throughout the Interior — Kamloops, Cranbrook, West actually sees a real expansion of services? Kelowna, Enderby, Salmon Arm areas — all moving out into the community to meet people where they are at, Hon. S. Malcolmson: Tis government is building a people that haven’t been able to access treatment because full system of care for mental health and addictions where of shif work or lack of transportation or daycare com- none existed four years ago. plications, for example. Tere are 200 government-funded adult treatment beds in Interior Health, and the work con- Interjections. tinues. Is there enough? No, there is not. Are we adding more Mr. Speaker: Members. Te minister will continue. services every month? Yes, we are. Minister. [10:35 a.m.]

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Te opposition’s continued mis- GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT IN characterization of the accessibility of mental health and SUPREME COURT CASE ON addiction service does a disservice to the people that are RIGHTS OF MUNICIPALITIES seeking care in a greater way than they ever have. Te pandemic has pushed more people into overdose crisis. It A. Olsen: In 2018, the Ontario government unilaterally has pushed more people into mental health crisis. Tose cut the Toronto city council from 47 members to 25. Just people are reaching out for help, and we are building and last week the Supreme Court of Canada heard the city’s expanding services every year of our four-year mandate arguments that the province infringed on the Charter and every year of our four-year mandate ahead — both rights when they did that. Te province of British Colum- behind and ahead. bia is the only province or territory in this country that I’ll implore members to be very careful in a mental intervened in the case. We are the only province or territ- health and addictions crisis. To mischaracterize the inac- ory that intervened in that case. cessibility of services…. It’s dangerous to suggest to people Martha Jackman, professor of constitutional law at the that help is not there for them when they need it. University of Ottawa, says: “Te B.C. government’s posi- tion relies on an ‘extremely regressive’ reading of the Con- Mr. Speaker: Te member for Surrey–White Rock on a stitution of Canada.” She goes on to say that she’s disap- supplemental. pointed to see a social democratic government proposing the same very regressive, conservative and narrow reading T. Halford: A disservice is closing a facility that people of charter rights that Ontario argued. are depending on. Tat is a disservice, Minister. My question is to the Attorney General. Te Attorney I’m going to read you a quote. “Many of our clients who General stated: “Te relationship between provinces and have accessed service years ago will ofen need to access municipalities is an ongoing dialogue between the service again, as the struggle is always present. To be able province and our cities. It’s an issue that should be decided to call the same place, speak to a familiar counsellor who in discussions with cities rather than through the B.C. worked with you in the beginning brings comfort to those Supreme Court or the Supreme Court of Canada.” who struggle.” Tose words are from Daryl Meyers, the Does the Attorney General still believe this to be true, executive director of Pathways. and if so, why has the government decided to intervene in Minister, let’s talk about priorities. It costs this govern- the case from Ontario? ment $500,000 a year for Pathways to stay open. Tat’s actually less than you guys have spent on a toilet in Van- Hon. D. Eby: I read the same Tyee article as the member couver. did. Te member will know that it’s a difcult thing for an Instead of defunding Pathways, why doesn’t this Premi- Attorney General to comment on a case that’s in front of er simply keep the program operating and increase sup- the court, which the member acknowledges is the case. port for the Interior Health so that there’s actually a net I will certainly say that I agree with the quote from me boost in services? that the member read out… 950 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 23, 2021

Interjections. with a city is not unique. We’re in similar discussions with Vancouver, Grand Forks, Hope, and we were in Penticton. Mr. Speaker: Members. It doesn’t always go well, but our spirit of cooperation is there, and for those cities that want to work with us on Hon. D. Eby: …that we are better of working with the difcult issues of the day, we are there. I know my col- municipalities about how we work together, rather than league the Minister of Municipal Afairs is there as well. having the court decide that for us. It’s an important issue I look forward to working with our partners in muni- that’s in that case. I look forward to the court’s decision. cipal governments, wherever we can do it. I’ll just note that we’re the only province intervening in [10:40 a.m.] favour of the federal carbon tax as well. Simply because we’re the only province is not an indication of the IMPACT OF PROPOSED U.S. LEGISLATION province’s position or the progressiveness of that position. ON CRUISE SHIP INDUSTRY What is, is our arguments in front of the court, and we look forward to the court’s decision. M. de Jong: In the U.S. Congress, legislation has been introduced that could have a devastating impact on B.C.’s Mr. Speaker: Te member for Saanich North and the cruise ship–related tourism sector even afer borders Islands on a supplemental. reopen, as they most surely eventually will. Te Alaska Tourism Recovery Act would allow cruise ships from A. Olsen: I remember the time that I was at the local Seattle to completely bypass B.C. ports like Victoria, Van- government table. In fact, I’m a member of this assembly couver and Prince Rupert, which would cost tourism oper- because of the frustration that I felt at the top-down rela- ators hundreds of millions of dollars as a result. tionship between municipalities and the province. Tourism operators are hanging on by their fngernails Some will say that municipalities are creatures of the already and desperately looking forward to better days province and that, as such, gives us the ability to kind ahead. Tose better days are now facing an entirely new of do whatever we want from this tower that we sit in challenge. here. Municipalities are not our junior partner, nor is local What assurance has the Premier received from Alaska government the training ground for provincial or federal senator Lisa Murkowski, who’s sponsoring the legislation politicians. Tey are our partners in delivering democratic in Congress, that rule changes allowing cruise ships to governance. entirely bypass B.C. ports will not become permanent? Brian Frenkel, president of the Union of British Col- umbia Municipalities, has stated that B.C.’s argument is Hon. M. Mark: I appreciate the question from the in confict with the “intent of the Community Charter member opposite. Te member is fully aware that the and the Local Government Act, which recognizes B.C.’s federal government is in charge of our borders. We are local governments collectively as an independent, working with the federal government to advocate for a autonomous and accountable order of government with- robust return to cruise ships and other industries when in their jurisdiction.” it’s safe to do so. Tis government has touted that it wants to build a bet- Right now our focus is on the rollout of our vaccina- ter relationship with local governments. Frankly, this is a tions, the safety of British Columbians and our borders remarkable way to do that. here in B.C. When it’s safe, we’re going to open up inter- If the Attorney General is of the mind to sidestep my national borders, but that’s not up to me, and the member general question about relationships with the municipalit- knows that. Te member knows that it’s up to the federal ies, then perhaps it’s best for me to simply ask my former government. It’s their mandate and jurisdiction to manage colleague from local government tables, the Minister of border control. Municipal Afairs. What does this government’s interven- Te advocacy…. tion mean to the relationships with local governments, and should local governments be expecting an even more top- Interjections. down approach from this province going forward? Hon. M. Mark: I don’t know why the members are Hon. D. Eby: You know, the member does raise import- heckling about border control and jurisdiction. We’re in ant questions about that case and about the province’s a federal state. involvement. I look forward to having that discussion with the member once the court has issued its decision. Interjections. I’ll note that the evidence for our province’s approach to municipalities was best demonstrated this week in the city Hon. M. Mark: Because we are not allowed…. It is not of Victoria, where we entered into an MOU around our up to me as the provincial minister to open up the borders. respective areas of jurisdiction. Tis cooperative approach But the advocacy…. What we are doing in British Colum- Tuesday, March 23, 2021 British Columbia Debates 951 bia is advocating for the vaccination rollout, for people to Mr. Speaker: Members. be safe and then to open up the borders. [10:45 a.m.]

Mr. Speaker: Te member for Abbotsford West on a Hon. M. Mark: Te members opposite want a lesson in supplemental. geography around Alaska and B.C. Tey are two diferent countries. International rules apply around international M. de Jong: Well, that’s a troubling response on all kinds waters. Te advocacy from the provincial government will of fronts if the minister doesn’t understand that the deal with the federal government and the Prime Minister. essence of the question is that when borders eventually do open up, people won’t be coming here anymore. Tey Interjections. won’t be coming because of a legislative change being pres- ented in Congress, in Washington, D.C. Mr. Speaker: Members. Tat question and answer are Alaska is our neighbouring state. I hope the minister over. Let’s listen to the next one. knows that. Alaska is our neighbouring state, and the Pre- mier of British Columbia received a copy of a letter written T. Stone: Well, for the minister’s beneft, what we’re talk- by the Alaska congressional delegation almost a month ing about here today is called the Jones Act. She might and a half ago, seeking engagement on this matter that want to go and look it up and maybe read it or have her is so important to B.C. tourism operators. Now they’ve advisers tell her what it’s all about. Tis is a signifcant upped the ante. Tey’ve upped the ante by introducing threat to the tourism sector in British Columbia and to the legislation that could cost our struggling tourism sector cruise sector in particular. hundreds of millions of dollars every year, on a permanent Te nature of the questions here today is not about basis. working with the federal government to reopen the bor- My question to the Premier: has he spoken to Senator ders or not. Te question is: does the B.C. government Murkowski, has he written to Senator Murkowski, has he have a plan for when the borders do reopen, so that there’s written to the Alaska congressional delegation, has he still a cruise industry here in British Columbia? Tat’s engaged with them, and if not, why not? Te stakes for what we’re trying to get at here today, Minister. Te issue is B.C.’s tourism sector are incredibly high and require very clear. engagement by this Premier and this government. Alaska is sending some very strong signals — well, not even signals. Tey’re being very, very upfront about it. Hon. M. Mark: I appreciate the question from the Tey want to protect their cruise industry. Tey were mys- member opposite. We will do that advocacy with the fed- tifed at the lack of engagement on the part of the B.C. and eral government on borders reopening and international the Canadian governments, when the borders were closed. travel. Te member opposite knows full well that they have Tey’re now saying that they’re prepared to move forward made the decision about the cruise ships. without us. Te question to the Premier is this. Has the Premier Interjections. sought guarantees or assurances from his American coun- terparts that B.C. will not be permanently bypassed as a Mr. Speaker: Members. cruise destination when the pandemic is over?

Hon. M. Mark: Te member opposite wants to remind Hon. M. Mark: What our government is going to do me about geography, and the member opposite wants to right now, in the middle of a global pandemic, is focus remind me about cruise ships. It is an international border. on the vaccination rollout. We’re going to focus on people It is up to the federal government to make those rules. being safe and being healthy. Ten when we’re able to open up the borders and have people come to the best destina- Interjections. tion in B.C., we need….

Mr. Speaker: Members, let’s listen to the answer, please. Interjections.

Hon. M. Mark: We are going to do the advocacy. Te Mr. Speaker: Members. Premier and our government will do the advocacy with Minister, just a second. the federal government to advocate that the borders be open. We are on the best coast; we’re on the west coast. Hon. M. Mark: Hon. Speaker….

Interjections. Mr. Speaker: No, Minister. Take your seat. Members, you’re wasting your time. Hon. M. Mark: Yes, it is. Te Minister will continue. 952 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 23, 2021

Hon. M. Mark: I was saying, before I got laughed at by tourism sector, which was thriving before the pandemic. the opposition, that of course we care about the tourism Tat work is underway. sector. Of course we care about cruise ships and Destina- Te members opposite can mock all they want about tion B.C., and being a destination for international travel- responding to advocacy and implementing recommenda- lers to come here to British Columbia. tions from a task force. We’re going to continue doing the Right now we’re in the middle of a global health crisis. work. We’re going to continue valuing the tourism sector Te focus of the provincial health ofcer is to get the vac- and make sure that they’re better than ever afer this pan- cinations rolled out, so that we’re all safe to travel across demic is over. B.C., across all the regions, in all the area codes. We will do the advocacy with our federal partners and our border COVID-19 RESPONSE FOR TOURISM partners. Of course, we’re going to do that work, but right INDUSTRY AND REPORT RECOMMENDATIONS now, the focus is on the vaccination rollout. T. Wat: Here’s another example to show the incompet- T. Stone: I think there’s a reason — a very good reason ence of this government, this Premier and this minister. I — here to be skeptical about the efectiveness of this gov- hope the minister listens carefully to my question. ernment and this minister in particular, when it comes to Two weeks ago we asked the Premier why travel agen- looking out for the tourism sector. cies who have been shut down are still being forced to pay Te tourism sector asked for $680 million in support government licensing fees. Instead of providing an answer almost a year ago. Tey got 50 million bucks. Te tourism to the hundreds of travel agencies who are asking about sector asked for tangible actions to help them survive, and these fees, the minister chose to quote Michelle Obama they got a task force report, which has a bunch of recom- and told us that implementing all the tourism task force mendations that haven’t even been implemented yet. recommendations was “impossible.” So what was she talk- Tey’ve asked for a relief on fxed costs, and they haven’t ing about — the task force just now? received that. Small businesses have been pleading for relief for Now, the cruise industry is saying: “We are seriously months. concerned that we may not exist as an industry if the My question is to the Premier. Will the Premier fx his United States, Alaska in particular, goes ahead in Tourism Minister in action and waive these fees? bypassing B.C.’s ports — specifcally Vancouver, Victoria and Prince Rupert.” Every cruise ship that pulls into Van- Hon. M. Mark: Te member opposite, if we go back couver is worth $3 million in economic activity. I’ll remind to the transcripts, will hear that you can’t do everything the minister that this industry employs 20,000 British Col- at the same time. Te priorities of the seven recommend- umbians. ations…. We moved on the frst three. I can spell out Again, the question to the Premier is: does he have the math — one, two, three. Te frst three recommend- assurances? Does he have guarantees? Has he had any ations have been implemented. We are working through recent conversations, with his U.S. counterparts in Alaska, the recommendations because we value the task force. We that would provide some comforts to the cruise industry value their advice. in British Columbia, to the thousands of people that work Te industry has had a direct seat at the table with our in the sector that we will not be bypassed if the Alaskans great Dr. Bonnie Henry. She’s heard directly from the move forward with the plans that they have indicated sector about their needs, what the challenges are with they’re going to do? this pandemic. Te advocacy and work are being done [10:50 a.m.] with the ministry….

Hon. M. Mark: Te member opposite talks about the Interjections. task force. Our government called together a task force. I hope that the member opposite is not mocking their Mr. Speaker: Members, let’s listen to the answer, please. expertise and their advice to government. Tey gave Te Minister will continue. advice. Tey gave seven recommendations. We received the report on December 9. On December Hon. M. Mark: Tank you, hon. Speaker. 23, we rolled out…. Te member opposite is not quite Te member opposite is not accurately refecting the accurate with his math. He says $50 million; $100 mil- actions that our government has taken to implement the lion was devoted to the tourism industry. We value the task force recommendations. Te experts asked our gov- tourism industry. We listened. We’re moving on the ernment to dedicate $100 million. Money has gone out the recommendations. door; $40 million has gone out to some of those tourism, Te industry is asking for certifcation, safety certifca- small business operators throughout this province. tion. Tey’re asking for dedicated funds to the Indigenous It is not accurate for the member opposite and the members of the opposition to refect that action isn’t being Tuesday, March 23, 2021 British Columbia Debates 953 taken, because we are working with the sector. We’re at the start with the bill, so I’ll jump right in here, as I am very table. Dr. Bonnie Henry is hearing directly what the con- eager to do so. cerns are. We’re moving the dial slowly as this vaccination Let me just start of by maybe highlighting some of the is rolled out. comments that we’ve heard over the last few days in this House. I’m going to get to some in detail a little bit later Mr. Speaker: Te member for Richmond North Centre throughout the proceedings here and the debate in com- on a supplemental. mittee stage on Bill 10. But, really, why we’re here…. And some of the comments that have been made are quite not T. Wat: Te minister claimed two weeks ago that: “We factual. can’t move any quicker than we are.” But let me start with the fact that we are dealing with Dennis from Optimal Travel says: “Te travel industry something out of the normal. Te minister and her col- was hit the most since the beginning of the pandemic, with leagues have continually — for good reason, I’ll give them zero revenue but countless cancellations. We can’t sustain that — over the last few weeks that we’ve been sitting, con- our business.” Tousands of dollars in licence fees are due tinued talking about the challenges and the stresses that in just seven days. Just one week. the pandemic has brought on. Everyone on this side of the Let me try the Premier one more time, on behalf of all of House actually acknowledges that. the sufering travel agencies. Will the Premier waive these Trough the course of the debate on Bill 10, I would licensing fees, or will travel agencies pay for his incompet- have thought, if the minister and the members opposite ence? were listening to the comments from opposition and even third-party members, that it was very evident that we Interjection. understood the unique situations that government is facing. Troughout this entire debate, we also understood Hon. M. Mark: Te member opposite’s yes or no…. the fact that the continuation of government is important, [10:55 a.m.] that spending in critical areas is important. Te members opposite think that…. Tey have their Let me back up, though, by saying that we are in a situ- experience with, you know, this idea of dufe bags and ation because of this government — their inability of get- ATMs and $20 coming out of nowhere. We are working ting a budget presented in this House when it should have with the budget process. We are doing the advocacy to get been, by legislation. Granted, old legislation, because this the money out the door through treasury. Tere is a pro- government had to change it to meet their needs of not cess to advocate for those resources. being able to get a budget put forward in time, but we’re in We are working closely with the industry. We value the this situation because of their inaction. tourism sector. Tere are grants available to the tourism We’re in a situation now where we have a bill in front industry, up to $45,000, which was a call to action — of us where they’re asking for almost $13.5 billion on one grants, not loans — and we’re going to continue doing the piece of paper. Tere is no information about where it’s work. going to be spent. Tat’s kind of where we’ve been going with our comments during debates, and our questions are [End of question period.] going to come up during estimates. It’s incumbent on us to ask these. It’s incumbent on the minister to show transpar- Orders of the Day ency around accountability of this House on how money is going to be spent. Hon. M. Farnworth: I call committee on Bill 10. But let me say that every single member in opposition, [11:00 a.m.] when they stood up, recognized that, yes, we’re in a sad situation of this government not being able to follow the Committee of the Whole House rules and get a budget presented in time, so they’re here asking for money. We acknowledge that. We understand BILL 10 — SUPPLY ACT (No. 1), 2021 that. We understand that they weren’t able to do their jobs. And because of that, we also understand that they’re here Te House in Committee of the Whole on Bill 10; having to ask for money to continue paying the bills on N. Letnick in the chair. April 1. [11:05 a.m.] Te committee met at 11:01 a.m. I think every single person that spoke here acknow- ledged that. I think every single person that spoke On clause 1. acknowledged with gratitude the work of front-line workers, our caregivers, our teachers, our doctors — M. Bernier: I didn’t know if the minister was going to everybody who has stepped up during this time, during this pandemic. 954 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 23, 2021

I’m going to give the minister, I think, my frst question. people’s mouths, and she can try to guess what people on I’m going to give the minister an opportunity maybe to this side of the House said. But not one person on this side correct, apologize or withdraw, at her choice, some of her of the House said that they were against anybody getting comments in her closing arguments on this bill in section paid on April 2. Not one person. 2, when the minister said that members on this side of the Te minister can make assumptions all she wants, House had said that we were against health care workers but her closing arguments were very disingenuous. Tey getting paid on April 2, that we were against teachers get- were not accurate. We’ll get into this a little bit later, in a ting paid on April 2, that we were against doctors and oth- second here, on some of the technicalities of why I know er people who have stepped up getting paid on April 2. I’ve she’s inaccurate. looked through Hansard. I haven’t heard that or seen that I’ll give the minister one more chance, because every from one person on this side of the House. single person on this side of the House when they spoke Can the minister start with my frst question of giving — and I listened very carefully to those comments — they me the names of the members, or tabling in this House, were speaking against the process. Tey were speaking during the course of the debate on section 2, the mem- against the fact that this government has been unable to do bers that said that they don’t want to see anybody get their jobs. Tey’ve been speaking out for transparency and paid as of April 2? accountability. [11:10 a.m.] Hon. S. Robinson: I certainly heard members opposite Tat’s what people were speaking for. Tat’s what people say that they did not support the bill, so to me that indic- are against, the fact that this government is not following ates that they did not support people getting paid. We cer- through with their obligation as an elected government — tainly saw that during…. I had to call division because the roles and responsibilities of putting a budget forward, there was certainly somebody on the other side who held the duty of being accountable and transparent with that up an X. Unfortunately, I didn’t get to see who it was, but budget in a timely manner. there was certainly an X fashed on the screen, which sug- Tat’s not for the beneft of opposition. We have a gested to me that I was confrmed in my assessment that job to do on behalf of the people of British Columbia, members on the other side had said that they did not sup- our constituents, to ask the questions, to ask for that port the bill. To me, this bill is about making sure that accountability — to do our jobs to make sure that that’s people get paid. To me, that’s quite clear. presented here in the House, that it’s scrutinized, so the Let me say that I’m looking back through history a little public can see where money is being spent. It’s their bit and have had the opportunity to take a look at interim money. We owe that to them. supply bills, historically here in this chamber. Going back Tat’s why members on this side of the House were to 1986, the year of Expo, Socred government, and a sup- speaking against the bill. Almost every member also said ply bill was passed in the House on March 27, for example, that they recognized that the government has a majority, here in this House. that they’re going to use that majority and they’re going to Ten again in ’87, and ’88, March 24, another interim push this through regardless of any conversation that we supply bill. And then again in ’88, ’89, and so on and so have in here, unfortunately. forth. In fact, every year a supply bill is passed in this But her comments were not accurate. I’ll give her anoth- House, recognizing that budget estimates haven’t been er chance to clarify and withdraw them. done. I recognize that the members are frustrated that a Hon. S. Robinson: Well, the member just said that budget isn’t being presented until April 20. I appreciate people did not support the bill. Tat’s what he just said — that. Tat’s why the supply bill before us is based on last that people were speaking out against the bill. Tat’s what year’s estimates, so that people can see and the members this bill is about. It’s about paying people. opposite can see exactly where spending will happen until While I appreciate the members opposite…. I can we present our budget, debate it and hopefully pass it in appreciate that the member across the way feels defensive. the House. I know that the member has expressed some concern when I called the division yesterday, because I did see an M. Bernier: Te minister made some interesting com- X on the screen. I wish I had documented exactly which ments. Have no fear to the minister because we’ll have of their members was not interested in supporting the bill lots of questions around the comments that she just made with their X showing. I guess it’s the downside of the tech- around history, around what’s normal, around the process nology. You put the X up in front of your face, and it’s too of this House, the legalities and the legislation and the pro- far away, the screen, for me to see who it was. cess that guides this establishment, and how work is sup- Again, to me, that speaks volumes. I know that the posed to take place here. member was a little surprised by that. I was too, frankly. Again, I just want to go back, just for the record, to But it goes to show that either members didn’t understand acknowledge that the minister can try to put words in what we were debating…. I don’t for a second believe that Tuesday, March 23, 2021 British Columbia Debates 955 there are members in this House who don’t think that I listened to their speeches during the debate — their people are doing good work on our behalf, keeping us safe, speeches where they stood up and talked about this. Obvi- keeping our children safe, keeping our seniors safe. ously, they didn’t read the bill. You could tell during this. We need to remember what this bill is about. Tis bill I always love the fact that we get under their skin with is about making sure those people get paid. So when I one simple question around accountability, and they get have heard members say, “I’m speaking against this bill; defensive. But I’ll move on, because I know I’ll bring up I don’t support this bill,” that is what I hear. I hear that lots more opportunity for the member to heckle me when they don’t believe that people should get paid. Tat is I actually highlight all of the faws that he and his govern- what I spoke to. ment have brought forward here with this bill. He can stick Now, I haven’t gone through all of Hansard over the last around and enjoy the show because he’ll have more to talk number of weeks. I could certainly do that. I understand about. we’re going to be here for a few days. I would be happy to Let me just continue on with the thought process that go over Hansard, should I fnd the time. For all I know, I have around some of the minister’s answers as we talk there might be people scurrying around that are looking about people getting paid as of April 2, about a process that for Hansard right now. we have here, in the House, of the government asking for But at the end of the day, making sure that the good money to do so. Te confusion, obviously, with some of people doing the work on our behalf as citizens, that chil- the NDP members…. I want the minister to maybe help dren have access to good learning opportunities, that seni- explain process to the House here. ors are cared for in the homes in which they fnd them- NDP ministers and MLAs during their second reading selves, that people who are doing incredible work getting comments claimed that not passing Bill 10 would cause millions of us vaccinated as quickly as possible so that we government workers not to be paid. Te NDP members can get back to normal…. We are the ones, government, are the ones that said this — that if this bill does not pass, that pays them to do that important work. workers will not get paid on April 2. We didn’t say that. I do believe the member opposite wants to make sure Te NDP themselves said that. In fact, the Attorney Gen- they get paid. But in terms of the debate that I certainly eral said we’re seeing gamesmanship around supply bills heard in this House, I heard members opposite saying that like this in the United States as well. “How does that end they don’t support the bill. Teir vote yesterday pointed up? Government workers go unpaid. Essential services are that they did. I was really glad to see that. shuttered. Te only people who hurt are the people in the I do think it is incumbent on us as representatives of our communities….” constituents to recognize that our constituents want these Te member for Courtenay-Comox said, “I’d like to people to get paid. Tey value that and they recognize that, recall the recent experience south of the border,”also high- so I’m pleased to see that all members in the House sup- lighting the United States — under a diferent system, I’ll ported it. Teir words didn’t necessarily suggest that that remind the minister — and some of the issues they have. was the case, because I did hear members say that they “I’d like to recall the recent experience south of the border don’t support the bill. I’m glad that the members opposite with the former leader of that nation. His refusal to sup- clarifed the record with the voice vote yesterday. port paying of the bills with similar interim supply legisla- [11:15 a.m.] tion,” like this, “paralyzed a nation.” My question to the minister: are those comments accur- M. Bernier: Again, let’s be clear. Tere are obviously, ate? for good reason, parts of this bill that many members would say that they don’t support. My point is that Hon. S. Robinson: Well, the member knows that the nobody said they don’t support the continuation of interim supply bill provides temporary legal authority for people getting paid. government to continue programs and services into the new fscal year. Tat’s what the purpose of this bill is — to Interjection. give government the authority to continue. [11:20 a.m.] M. Bernier: Pay attention. I’ll give you lots more infor- It’s not just government workers but all of the transfers mation. You can heckle on later. that are made to the social service sector — all of those people doing amazing work taking care of those most vul- Te Chair: Trough the Chair, please. Tank you. nerable; all of those in the housing sector that are making sure that people continue to have a roof over their heads; M. Bernier: I always appreciate the fact that at the very all of those workers that are supporting those with devel- beginning, one question in, we already get the heckling. opmental disabilities, frail seniors, home support workers. It obviously shows the uncomfortableness that members We’re talking about making sure that all of those ser- opposite have with this bill as well. In fact, I don’t know if vices can continue. Tat’s what a supply bill does. It’s cer- they’ve even read the bill. tainly one that I debated here in the House when the mem- 956 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 23, 2021 bers opposite were on the government side. Supply bills [11:25 a.m.] would come in. Tere would be debate. Tey would pass so that all of that work could continue to happen. All of the M. Bernier: Well, the minister has read, a few times work that takes care of our citizens, that makes sure that now, her speaking notes on what a supply bill is. We they have what they need — the services that government understand what a supply bill is. We understand that sup- provides continue. ply bills are brought in, typically every year, for the con- I expect that this, too, will pass. We certainly had second tinuation of spending for government services. We’re not reading. It passed unanimously in this House, which was a arguing that. We’re very well aware of it. When we were in good thing. It certainly warmed my heart to see everybody government, we understood we had to bring supply bills supporting this bill. forward for this exact same purpose. I look forward to seeing its enactment so that the people Tat’s not my question. I’m not asking the minister to that are doing the good work can continue doing that. explain to me what a supply bill is. I’m asking her to explain to this House the process if this supply bill was M. Bernier: You know, I don’t argue with most of what to fail. If the ministers and MLAs on the government side the minister just said — the reason of bringing a supply of the House are right, does that mean that if this was to bill forward. I’ll ask some questions specifcally around the fail…? I know the minister says it’s going to pass. I know supply bill a little later on, the technicalities, the timing, they have a majority government, and it’s going to pass. etc. I know she’s well aware of that and probably anticip- I know it’s going to pass. So what happens if it fails? Do ating those questions when they come up. But this specif- people not get paid on April 2? ic question was: did she agree with the comments of NDP cabinet ministers and MLAs who said that if this bill did Hon. S. Robinson: Again, I listened to the rhetoric on not pass, that as of April 2, front-line workers, doctors and the other side. Tis place is flled with rhetoric. We’ve got services would not be paid? plenty of rhetoric, too. I’m not castigating it all on that side Is that actually what happens in this province if this bill of the House, but this is a piece of it. was not to pass — that people would not get paid? Te member is throwing up hypotheticals. Te member gets to do that, I suppose. But what I’m here to do is to Hon. S. Robinson: Again, having the legal authority to make sure that we continue to deliver the services that do the work on behalf of the people is why we’re here. people count on. Tat’s why, on this side of the House, It’s why we’re here. Tis bill gives government the legal where we do have a majority, we’re going to make sure that authority to make sure that those people — the people that this bill passes. we all care about doing their work — continue to get paid. Actually, afer witnessing what I thought was an unusual move by the opposition in seeing somebody throw up that M. Bernier: It’s a very simple question. I’m unsure why they did not support this supply bill, which surprised me, the minister is not willing to step forward and answer I thought: “Who’s not going to support the supply bill?” it. Te simple question is: is the member for Courtenay- Somebody did put it up on the screen. But when we had Comox right? Will government not be able to pay its bills the voice vote, we heard that everybody in this House sup- on April 2? Is that actually what happens if this fails? ports this bill. Is the Attorney General right in his comments when I know that we’re in committee stage to get to some of he says that we’ll turn into American-style systems if this the nuts and bolts of this bill. I look forward to that. We’ve bill does not pass, and people will not get paid? Tat’s had our second reading debate on this bill. Everyone sup- what I’m trying to understand here, on behalf of the ported it. Tat’s good. Tat’s good for the people of Brit- people in British Columbia, because they heard cabin- ish Columbia. I’m proud of this government and, in fact, et ministers and they’ve heard government MLAs put all members of the House for supporting it, because what the fear into people that if this bill was not to pass, they it means is that we care to make sure that everybody gets would not get paid on April 2. paid and government can continue to deliver services. I’m just trying to ask the minister if that’s factual. Were those members in her government right? M. Bernier: It’s unfortunate that the minister wants to consider good questions on behalf of the people of British Hon. S. Robinson: Once again, we bring forward a sup- Columbia rhetoric, because these are important questions. ply bill every year to make sure that government has the Te minister — I’m not sure why — does not want to legal authority. My understanding is that supply bills pass explain the technicalities of a supply bill that we have here — making sure that government has the legal authority to in front of us. Te whole point of having a supply bill is to pay the people doing the work. have the discussions around the process, the practicality, Tis interim supply bill is no diferent. It provides tem- the information that’s within it — in this case, very little. porary legal authority for government to continue pro- I’ll assist the minister. I’ll make it very easy for her, then, grams and services into the new fscal year. Tuesday, March 23, 2021 British Columbia Debates 957 to say yes or no. If the supply bill was to fail, is that con- its job by passing this, almost no questions asked, and the sidered a confdence motion, a confdence vote? work that we in the opposition have to do — to ask the [11:30 a.m.] questions and then have those questions be misconstrued as anything but what they are, which is an honest attempt Hon. S. Robinson: Te members are certainly talking to understand what is going on — with this supply bill, hypotheticals and what-ifs, but the reality is we have a with this budget cycle, with this government in its frst majority. Tis supply bill is going to pass, because that’s attempt to bring a budget before the people of British Col- what we’re elected to do. umbia. We’re elected to do the good work on behalf of the people of this province. It’s why I put my name forward. Hon. S. Robinson: Again, I want to qualify my response I know it’s why the other members who are here in the — my closing comments, second reading — because I did House, those who are on the screen…. Even yourself, Mr. hear from numerous members that they did not support Speaker — I know that’s why you put your name forward. the bill. Tey said that. “We don’t support the bill.” “I’m It’s to do the good work on behalf of the people of this speaking against the bill.” I take that seriously. province. [11:35 a.m.] We’re going to get the supply bill passed, because we Now, if they said, “I’m going to support the bill, but I do have a majority. Every member on this side of the have concerns about this and this, and I look forward to House knows that this is what we need to do, in order to committee stage, when I’m going to ask these questions,” I keep doing the good work. Based on what I saw and wit- appreciate that. Tat is the job of opposition. I spent four nessed here in this House yesterday, I know that mem- years doing that work. It is important work. bers on the other side, too, are going to be supporting When people say, “I don’t support the bill,” and then this supply bill. don’t qualify it, or they say, “I like the bill. I like that We all know how important it is to make sure that those it’s going to be paying everybody, but I have questions,” I services continue for the people of this province. absolutely appreciate that. Tey should have questions. But I did hear from a number of members across the way that A. Olsen: Tank you to the minister for the response. they did not support the bill, and I take that wholesale. I I’m somewhat dismayed, because in all of the conversation take people at their word. Now, if they meant something about rhetoric that’s just been happening, the suggestion diferent, fair enough, and they should qualify that. that — specifcally, from the Tird Party — I and my col- Again, I’m going to come back to the fact that I did…. league were doing anything but what the Minister just I wish I could go back and play rewind in my mind and said…. Tat was our job — to ask questions about a supply identify the X that I saw on the screen. But I did see some- bill which was not the same as supply bills of the past, body visually not support second reading of Bill 10, which which have passed, but which does have some diferences suggests to me that there’s at least one member of the in it. opposition that doesn’t support what this bill does. And Te government was not readily forthcoming in the that’s disappointing. Tat is very disappointing. uniqueness and the impact of that. It’s very challenging for I’m very happy to take members’ questions around how me to hear that the government is doing its job and that this supply bill is diferent from previous years. It’s still they’re going to pass this supply bill. Yet the second read- a supply bill doing the same thing that supply bills have ing speeches that we delivered, the concerns that we raised done in the past, which is to keep government services in the minister’s closing comments yesterday, were profled and programs going. I know that the member appreciates that we were against supporting the good services that this how important that is. It is diferent, because the budget government produces. for this upcoming year isn’t being presented until April 20. Tere is a disingenuity, at least, in this — that the minis- I appreciate that. Tat’s why this bill is based on last year’s ter would stand up and suggest that by asking the import- estimates so that there is a basis for it that allows us to get ant questions in this place about the diferences, to draw through the important work that we’re going to do here out the uniqueness of the supply bill, would then be mis- when we do present the budget. construed in the closing comments of that debate as any- We have the process of estimates, and I’m sure all mem- thing less than what it was. bers of the House will be asking questions of every min- Never once did I mention, never once did my colleague ister around what they’re going to be doing in order to mention, that we were against supporting these good ser- continue to deliver services for British Columbians, and vices. In fact, we’ve been in support of this government in they should do that, because that is their job. Tat is about developing many of those services that were mentioned. accountability. No one is disputing that. It’s very, very difcult to sit in here and to digest this, in But I’m going to come back again to the fact that there that context. were members…. Perhaps it’s new members, and I can cer- Perhaps the minister can provide a little bit more detail tainly recognize that, as new members would say, “I don’t on how it is that we can reconcile the government doing support the bill” and then go to their speaking notes and 958 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, March 23, 2021 specify. But it’s the words when people say, “I don’t sup- Hon. S. Robinson: It sounds like the member wants to port the bill” or “I’m speaking against the bill.” I hear that debate hypotheticals. Well, I’m not here to debate hypo- as wholesale. If I misinterpreted it, I’ll take responsibility theticals; I’m here to debate reality. Te reality is that we for that, but that is what I heard here in this chamber from have a bill before this House that provides government members opposite, and I took that to mean that they don’t with the legal authority to continue to pay for these ser- support folks getting paid. vices and these programs. I look forward to continuing do Perhaps they didn’t understand what the bill was about, that work and making sure that we’re talking, grounded in and I can appreciate that. I remember being a new member reality, based on what’s presented here in this House in Bill of this chamber in my frst supply bill debate and perhaps 10, to continue government’s work. not really appreciating what it was about and having to We do this debate here, and the people outside of this ask questions, because it is all new when you are all shiny chamber who are doing the work — they’re also dealing in and not tarnished like…. Well, there are a couple of shiny reality. For me, making sure that government gets the leg- people that are still here, for diferent reasons, perhaps. So al authority so that they can do their real work is the most I do appreciate that — if people did not understand what important thing for us to be doing right now. this bill is about. I hope that through the process over the next, it sounds like, number of days, they are going to get M. Bernier: I’ll make it easy for the minister, then. I’ll a real good understanding of the supply bill. ask a real question. Is the supply bill a confdence vote? But again, speaking directly to the member’s question, I know that he understands the nature of supply bill and Hon. S. Robinson: Tis bill is going to pass. We cer- what it’s about. I’m here to certainly answer any specifc tainly have seen here in this House yesterday the commit- questions that the member might have for the rest of the ment from everybody in this chamber. I look forward to number of days that we’re going to be here. taking the member’s questions, given that we are in com- mittee stage on this bill. I fully expect that we will be M. Bernier: It’s interesting listening to the minister’s passing it later this week. comments about what she heard and taking them at their word. So using that same analogy or same thought M. Bernier: I’m not sure why the minister is not will- process that the minister just said, I go back to my com- ing to answer just a basic simple question around pro- ments, then, that we had a few moments ago, where the cess in the House. She said it’s going to pass. Last night member for Courtenay-Comox and the Attorney Gener- we all acknowledged that it’s going to pass by voting in al…. Is the public supposed to take them at their word? favour to move forward to committee stage so that we Does that mean if this bill does not pass on April 2, could ask these questions. We signalled, and we under- the doctors, the nurses, the teachers and all the people stand, that bills need to be paid. I’m just asking a simple of British Columbia that rely on a paycheque from this question. We have, every year, supply bills. Are supply government…. If this bill does not pass, do they get paid bills confdence votes? or stop getting paid on April 2? [11:45 a.m.] [11:40 a.m.] Te members talked about — that it will turn into a Hon. S. Robinson: Again, what we have here before the U.S.-style system, where people don’t get paid. So I’m just House at committee stage is a bill that is to provide gov- kind of curious if that’s actually what happens, because ernment with an appropriation to spend money. I look for- that’s the feeling now that the people in the province of ward to getting into the meat of the bill. I don’t believe that British Columbia have, based on a minister of the Crown’s dealing in hypotheticals is helpful. Te member oppos- comments here in this House. We have another minister of ite has even said that he fully expects all members of the the Crown, the Minister of Finance now, that can set the House to support this bill. I know, based on the voice vote record straight. that we heard yesterday, that it has become apparent that Is it possible that on April 2…? Let’s just say that we every member in this chamber supports the bill. were in a minority government situation. Te minister I do recognize that the member for Saanich North and has already said: “We’re in a majority.” Tey’re going to the Islands had some questions to ask about process. I push this through regardless. People are going to contin- look forward to those specifc questions. I think we need ue to get paid. Tere’s no fear there. She has said that. to recognize, at the end of the day, the supply bill…. It Yes, we might be talking about hypotheticals, but I’d happens every year in this chamber, albeit it’s a little bit like the answer, on behalf of the people in the province, diferent this year because a budget hasn’t been presen- about that hypothetical. ted yet. It will be in three short weeks, a little over three If we are in a minority government situation, then, if weeks, and that is unusual. this bill did not pass, like any other supply bill in the last However, government, every year, brings forward a previous years, what happens on April 2? supply bill to make sure that those people who do the good work continue to get paid until the budget can Tuesday, March 23, 2021 British Columbia Debates 959 be properly reviewed, estimates can happen and a new the member can just put on the record what he knows to budget adopted. be true. And that would be, I would imagine, sufcient. Again, what we call money bills are about confdence. M. Bernier: Looking at the clock, it’s unfortunate. I But, again, that’s hypothetical. Tat’s a hypothetical per- thought I had asked a very simple question, around pro- spective about whether or not this bill is going to pass. cess, about a bill that this minister tabled in the House. I Right? Tat’s a hypothetical because we saw, in this House, assumed that I was just going to get an easy “yes” answer afer second reading, that everybody said they support this and that we were going to move on to the next questions. bill, with a voice vote. Tat was good to hear. It was good Believe me, I have lots of questions around this. to witness. It’s not what we heard in second reading, so it Let me help the minister, then, and she can correct me was nice to hear. if I’m wrong. Supply bills are — from my understanding I appreciate that the members have questions as well — a confdence motion, a confdence vote. Te minister, I around the specifcs of this bill. I look forward to getting assumed, would have just stood up and said that, because into the specifcs of this bill. But, again, what is before this those are the legislative facts of a monetary bill like the House is the legal authority to continue to do the spend- supply act that we have here in front of the House. ing that government needs to do so that those people who I’m not sure why she’s not willing to just acknowledge are doing incredible work continue to get paid. And I’m that. It wasn’t a trick question. It wasn’t a rabbit hole I was really pleased. And I want British Columbians to know trying to take the minister down. I was just trying to get it that everybody in this House supported that. Tat’s really, on the record: if we were in a diferent situation, what are really good to hear, yesterday. the processes that would take place? Members on that side I know that all the members appreciate the work that of the House, and cabinet ministers, have alluded to people people are doing on our behalf, on our collective behalf, not getting paid on April 2 if this bill failed. making sure that we’re safe, making sure that our kids are I was just trying to help the people of British Columbia being taught, making sure that our seniors are cared for. and put their fears to rest that those comments weren’t Tat’s what governments do. accurate and that, actually, people will continue to get Noting the hour, I move that the committee rise, report paid. Even if a supply bill fails — this is where the minister progress and ask leave to sit again. will only have to spend a few moments to correct me if I’m wrong — it’s a confdence motion. An order-in-coun- Motion approved. cil through a special warrant would be used to continue paying for the services of government, and the people’s Te committee rose at 11:54 a.m. paycheques would still fow, but we would be going to an election if this were to fail. Te House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Now, we know that’s not going to happen. Te minister has acknowledged that they’re going to use the majority Te Committee of the Whole, having reported government to push this through. We’ve acknowledged progress, was granted leave to sit again. that we want to ensure that people get paid. I was just ask- ing, for the technicalities, if that were factual. Is what I said Hon. M. Farnworth moved adjournment of the House. on the process…? If this were to fail, would people still get paid on April 2, yes or no? Motion approved. [11:50 a.m.] Mr. Speaker: Tis House stands adjourned until 1:30 Hon. S. Robinson: Well, you know, the member sug- this afernoon. gests that it’s not a rabbit hole, that the question is out of curiosity, perhaps. Although, at the same time, the mem- Te House adjourned at 11:55 a.m. ber did say what he knows to be true. So if that’s the case,

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