City of Alexandria Office of Historic Alexandria Alexandria Legacies Oral History Program

Project Name: Alexandria Legacies

Title: Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr.

Date of Interview: November 20, 2006

Location of Interview: Alexandria,

Interviewer: Frimmel Smith

Transcriber: Valerie Davison

Abstract: Mr. Loftin was born in Alexandria in 1931. His father worked for the Southern Railway. Mr. Loftin has traveled across the United States in trains and developed a detailed chronology of the history of railroads in Alexandria. He grew up in the 1500 block of King Street, in one of the row houses that are now stores but were then homes. He remembers going to the Richmond movie theater [now the Old Town Theatre] and the roller-skating rink. He worked in different jobs for the railroads, as a substitute teacher in the Alexandria City Public Schools, and as the head of his own train travel company. He has owned two railroad cars that he used for excursions.

This transcript has been edited by the interviewee and may not reflect the audio- recording exactly. Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 2 of 18

Table of Contents/Index

Tape: Tape 1 Side: Side 1

Minute Counter Page Topic Not Not 3 Introductions available available 3 Southern Railway 4 Siblings 4 Playmates 5 Living on King Street 5 Railroad Lines 7 Employment 10 Neighborhood 12 Businesses on King Street 12 Travel

Tape: Tape 1 Side: Side 2

Minute Counter Page Topic Not Not 13 Travel continued available available 14 Business Ventures Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 3 of 18

Introductions Frimmel For the record, Walter, I’d like you to state your name, your place of birth, and your Smith: date of birth. Walter Walter Lee Loftin, Jr., Alexandria Hospital on Duke Street, Alexandria, February 23, Loftin, 1931. Jr. F.S.: When you were born, where did your parents live? Where did your family live? Walter 1511 King Street, Alexandria. Loftin, Jr. F.S.: Did you live there most of your life, growing up? Walter Yes, from my date of birth until approximately 1980. Loftin, Jr. F.S.: Did your parents grow up in Alexandria? Walter No, they were both born in the Salisbury, area, and were transferred Loftin, to Alexandra with the Southern Railway, in approximately 1918. Jr.: Southern Railway F.S.: I saw you’ve made up a wonderful chronology of railroads in Alexandria. I think it’s absolutely fantastic. On that chronology it says that the Southern Railway began operations in Alexandria in 1918. So your father was right at the beginning of those operations? Walter Actually, the Richmond and Danville Railroad entered Alexandria about the 1850s, Loftin, and the Southern Railway Company was formed [from the Richmond and Danville Jr.: Railroad] in 1895 [1894], I believe it was. He [Walter Loftin, Sr.] joined the Southern Railway in Salisbury, North Carolina, in the nearby Spencer Shops in 1911. He and my mother were married in 1913. And, as I say, he worked at the Spencer Shops until being transferred to Alexandria in 1918 via Bristol. F.S.: So he had a very long career on the railroads. Was it always on the Southern Railway? Walter All except for a few months. But all I remember is him being with the Southern Loftin, Railway. Jr.: F.S.: And how many years was he with the railroad? Walter Approximately forty-seven or forty-eight. I can’t remember the exact year he retired, Loftin, but that’s approximately the years. Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 4 of 18

Jr.: F.S.: Where did he work in Alexandria, when he was on the railroad? When he was with the Southern Railway? Walter He worked at several locations. On South Henry Street, they had a big shop area; and Loftin, he worked in the stores department off of what is now Holland Lane. Then they Jr.: moved his office over to an old building just a couple blocks west of there, and he worked there for a while. Then they moved the storehouse office to the end of the machine shop at the roundhouse. That’s where they were located when he retired. F.S.: And where is that located now? Because there certainly aren’t any railroads coming in right now, there. Walter That old roundhouse building was razed in the last five years or so, sometime around Loftin, 2000. Jr.: F.S.: Oh, really? Walter It had long been leased to the Curtis Lumber Company, when the railroads no longer Loftin, did any mechanical work on the locomotive there, except in the old diesel shop Jr.: building. I remember the entire area. I went in and out of his office ever since I was a young child. Locomotives used to be on these stub tracks, waiting to be repaired in the roundhouse. So I remember climbing up on the engines, and playing around the area like a playground, which was right outside his office. Siblings F.S.: Did you have brothers and sisters? Walter I had one brother and two sisters. My older sister, Barbara, was born in 1917, in Loftin, Salisbury, North Carolina. My brother was born in Alexandria, at Prince and Jr.: Washington Street, in 1919. I had another sister, Elaine, born at 1511 King Street; and I was the first child born in the Alexandria Hospital. F.S.: Really. In your family. But not the first child born in the Alexandria Hospital. Right? In your family. Well, that’s interesting. That building’s no longer there, either. Well, the building is, I guess. Walter No, the original building was torn down. Then a new atrium office-building was Loftin, built on the site. Jr.: Playmates F.S.: Well, who were your playmates on King Street? Walter There were so many of them, I don’t know who to start with. In the next block there Loftin, was a boy a year or two younger than me. I remember him more vividly as Leo Jr.: Cappaletti. He lived at 1605 King Street, so it was just a half a block away. F.S.: Was King Street as busy then as it is now? Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 5 of 18

Walter No. Loftin, Jr.: F.S.: Did you play in the street? Walter No. As a small child I was not allowed to cross King Street, until I was perhaps four Loftin, or five years old, by myself. I was always warned not to cross the street without Jr.: some adult with me. It was the main street, of course. F.S.: But it was a busy street then, or could you play in the street? Walter At that time, it was a busy street, being the main street. Loftin, Jr.: Living on King Street F.S.: Your house on King Street, it looks like a lot of the bungalows that were built around Alexandria. Walter No, it was a row house, they called them at that time, which are now designated as Loftin, townhouses. There were approximately ten or twelve in the row that I lived in. All Jr.: these now have commercial businesses in them, whereas, at that time, most of the people in those homes were residential. Most everyone who lived on my block, around the corner, and within a two-, three-, or four-block radius, worked for the railroad, or some railroad-connected company. There were a few exceptions. The corner drugstore, the pharmacy, was called Weil’s Drugstore—W-E-I-L—and that’s where I’d hang out a lot, when they had magazines to look at, on the rack, and a soda fountain, of course; a typical soda fountain that most all drugstores had at the time. F.S.: Were there any other businesses around? You said most were row houses back then. Then there was the drugstore. Was there a movie theater or a grocery store or anything? Walter The only movie theater I remember existing at that time was the Richmond Theater. Loftin, The building is still there. In 1935 a brand new, modern theater was built about a Jr.: block away, on the 1700 block—1717 King Street—called the Reed Theater [it is now the location of a bank]. That was the latest technology and screen. It was even air-conditioned. In those days there were only two places that were air-conditioned. That was on the railroad trains and in the movie theaters. Everything else was either electric fans or open windows, to get cool. F.S.: You said you played most of your play time climbing on train engines where your father worked. Was that what inspired you to go on the railroad? Railroad Lines Walter From the earliest age my mother took me on trips, and we almost always went on the Loftin, train. Since the family had a pass, we could visit relatives in Salisbury, North Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 6 of 18

Jr.: Carolina; High Point, North Carolina; and other nearby places, at no cost. So we did quite extensive travel back and forth when I was growing up, especially in the summertime, when I was out of school. F.S.: That’s interesting. I have this guidebook. It’s a Washington Guidebook published in 1915, and it has a chapter on Alexandria. It talks about all the different railroads you could take from Washington out to Alexandria. Are you familiar with those lines, and how people came to Alexandria? Walter Very much so. Loftin, Jr.: F.S.: Would you like to elaborate? Walter Alexandria had a Union Station that was opened in 1906, I believe. In fact, they just Loftin, celebrated the100th anniversary last fall [2005]. There were three railroads at the Jr.: time that serviced Alexandria: The Southern Railway system, an 8,000-mile system with its main line running from Washington, D.C., through Alexandria, to , Birmingham, and ; the Richmond, Fredericksburg & Potomac [RF&P], which was a short line, so to speak, but a heavy-duty short line that handled all the trains from the seaboard and the Atlantic coastline; that terminated in Richmond, and went up to and Washington, D.C. Potomac Yard was located within the city limits of Alexandria, but when it was first built it was outside the city limits. In fact there was a separate town of Potomac [which was incorporated into Alexandria in 1930. See www.alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/oha/info/TrailSignDelRayTownofPotomac.pdf for more information.] The third railroad was the Chesapeake & , which actually used trackage rights over the Southern Railway, from Orange, Virginia, to Alexandria, and then used trackage rights on the RF&P Railroad Lines from Alexandria into Washington, D.C. So those were the three railroads that serviced . Passenger trains. F.S.: And was the Union Station where the Station is now? Walter Same station building. Loftin, Jr.: F.S.: In this guidebook, it’s describing how to get down to visit Christchurch and then onward to Mt. Vernon. It says that leaving Alexandria via King Street—I assume there were tracks that ran down King Street? Walter There were trolley tracks. The trolley system was abandoned in approximately 1933, Loftin, when I was only two years old, and I do not recall having ridden on the trolley cars Jr.: in Alexandria, but, most assuredly, I was probably taken places with my parents, up until age two. We visited an aunt—[interruption.] So the tracks were visible in the street for many years, in and around Old Town, so I knew exactly where the trolley tracks went, the tracks being visible all over. They went from what is now Commonwealth Avenue, where they turned to the north, and went out through Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 7 of 18

Crystal City, across the Fourteenth Street Bridge into Washington, D.C., and eastward on King Street, one track diverging off in the middle of the block where I lived. The track that merged off in the middle of the block, between Harvard and Peyton Streets, had its own right-of-way through the middle of the block, and I remember that gulch remaining there for many years afterward, which was overgrown with weeds, before they built the building on the right-of-way. Then one track went eastward down as far as Fairfax Street. The other track, on Cameron Street, turned back toward King Street on Columbus. F.S.: One of the things it does say in here, on how to get to Alexandria, it advises people going on the trolley down King Street, and exiting at a station at Prince and Royal. Right now there’s the Whistle-Stop Train Store [In 2017 it is located on Quaker Lane.] Do you think that’s where the station was? Walter I was told there was a waiting room and ticket office in the Donovan Building, Loftin, which is still in existence today, at the intersection of North Columbus and King Jr.: Street, where the other track returned from Cameron Street and merged with the track going eastward. There was another place down in the city, what is probably now a residence of some kind, but I don’t remember specifically any buildings that I ever saw. F.S.: Well, you certainly do know a lot about the railroads in Alexandria. How long did you, yourself, work with the railroad? Employment Walter A total of about eighteen years. I worked, right out of high school, for the Fruit Loftin, Growers Express Company [which built refrigerated freight cars for the railroads. It Jr.: was eventually owned by several different eastern railroad companies], for approximately six months. But I wanted to work for Southern Railway, where my father worked, so I left them [Fruit Grower’s Express] in December, the year I graduated from high school, [19]48, and worked a couple part-time jobs before I began working at the Southern Railway general office building, which was located in Washington, D.C. So I worked there three years, and decided to go to college. Then during the summer recess, and also after I got out of college, and graduated, I worked as a substitute teacher and other railroad jobs, too. I worked for Southern Railway off and on. Sometimes we’d get laid off, and take other railroad jobs to fill in the time, while we were waiting to be called back. So I worked for a while as a crew caller—one who calls the train crews to work—at the office building on South Henry Street, which is the same building that the superintendent of Washington Division had his offices located. The other various jobs I had, after being cut off from that job—somebody else with higher seniority pulled me for that position because his job was abolished. So people with more seniority could pull one job, or bump somebody off the job if they had worked for the railroad less years. So during the time I was waiting to be called back, they offered me a temporary job selling tickets in Charlottesville, Virginia. I knew this would be a temporary position, but at least it was perhaps five or six months work. Then I came back to Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 8 of 18

Alexandria, and shortly thereafter started working in Washington Terminal Company in [Washington,] D.C. I worked there two years and was laid off. So at that time, with this previous ticket-selling experience, both in Charlottesville and previous railroad work, I began working at Washington Terminal Company, for two years. Then when I was laid off there, I obtained a position selling tickets at Alexandria Union Station, which was only three blocks from where I lived, which was very convenient. I worked there about three years, then started working on my own, my own company, and also as a substitute teacher. I then did work for the for a short time and other railroad jobs. Also, when Amtrak was formed in [19]71, I began working for them in 1972, three and a half years, up until 1975. From that time on I just worked various positions in the meantime, trying to get a business started. F.S.: You mentioned you were a substitute teacher. What schools did you teach in? Walter Mostly in the Alexandria city school system, high schools and middle schools. Loftin, Sometimes I was on the list for Fairfax County, and also [unclear]. Jr.: F.S.: Do you remember the names of the specific schools that you taught in? Are they still in existence? Walter GW [George Washington] High School is still in existence as a middle school. Loftin, Parker-Gray no longer exists. T.C. Williams still exists. Hammond still exists. Well, Jr.: Hammond, which was originally a high school, became a middle school. [pause in recording] F.S.: We’re recording again. You taught at Hammond, and G.W., T.C. Williams, Parker- Gray. What subjects did you teach? Walter Mostly I’d get calls for any subjects where they didn’t have a regular teacher that Loftin, taught that specific subject. So it could be any thing, even girls phys ed [physical Jr.: education.] F.S.: That must have been interesting. What type of sports did the girls play? Walter It was usually in the gym. Once in a while they would go outside, but it was usually Loftin, in combination with some of the other classes, with some of the other physical ed Jr.: teachers, too. So they were large groups, but they had three or four teachers to watch the various classes. F.S.: When you were a teacher, was there still segregation in Alexandria? Walter No, because that probably occurred around 1960, didn’t it? Loftin, Jr.: F.S.: Integration? It was in the mid-[19]60s, probably. [The Alexandria schools were fully integrated in 1971.] Walter I overlapped that, then. I had my first substituting in 1958-[19]59-[19]60. Then there Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 9 of 18

Loftin, was gaps when I was working regular, at full-time jobs. Then I returned to Jr.: substituting in between other, full-time work. F.S.: In between your railroad work? Walter In between other jobs, as well. Loftin, Jr.:

Fruit Growers Express building during the 1980s. Photo from The Lyceum Collection/Office of Historic Alexandria Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 10 of 18

Neighborhood F.S.: When you were growing up, was your neighborhood inhabited by a lot of different ethnic groups? Walter It was probably little, small numbers, but I wasn’t aware of it so much then. Most all Loftin, the people in my neighborhood were railroad workers, or affiliated with railroads. Jr.: The Fruit Growers Express Company, which I mentioned earlier, was a car-building company that built freight cars. They specialized in refrigerator cars. But they were owned by twenty-some various railroads in the Eastern and Midwestern part of the United States. F.S.: You mentioned that your best friend’s name was—? Walter Leo Cappaletti lived on the next block. Loftin, Jr.: F.S.: That sounds like an Italian name. Walter It is. Loftin, Jr.: F.S.: Were there a lot of different nationalities represented in the neighborhood? Walter Probably about three or four. I can’t remember specific ones. But at least three or Loftin, four, I believe. Jr.: F.S.: And you wrote down that you’re a member of a church here in Alexandria, which is on the south—[Interruption]. I see on your biography that you’re a member of the Alexandria First Baptist Church, that used to be on [212] South Washington Street. [It is now located in the 2000 block of King Street.] So you were a member of that from the time you were small? Walter I joined it in 1944, I believe. I think I was approximately thirteen years old. Loftin, You asked a question about First Baptist Church in Alexandria, Virginia, which was Jr.: located on South Washington Street, where I was a member, until they moved from that location to 2932 King Street. They outgrew their facilities on South Washington Street and built a new church in 1954. So we just transferred to a new building, but the same people were members of it, moving up there, except some few stayed at the old church downtown, on Washington Street, and that became the Downtown Baptist Church, using the same building. F.S.: Oh. I didn’t realize there were two different congregations for the same church. Did you go to church with your family every Sunday? Walter My father and I usually went to the one on South Washington Street, and my mother Loftin, was a member of the Temple Baptist, which was located at King and Peyton Streets. Jr.: Their church eventually moved to Commonwealth Avenue, where it is today, at 700 Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 11 of 18

Commonwealth Avenue, I believe [now Commonwealth Baptist Church]. My sister and I both belonged to the First Baptist Church in Alexandria, through our lifetime, except for when I went away to college. We always did—what we usually did was transfer our membership when we moved to another city for any length of time. Then I returned my membership to First Baptist when I finished school. I was a member there ever since, except for when I lived a year or two in Staunton, Virginia; then I returned to Alexandria, and rejoined my original church again. F.S.: Great. Well, since you went to different churches, your sisters and your mother to one and your father and you to another, at the end, did you have a meal at home together? Walter Oh, sure. Loftin, Jr.: F.S.: Was there a ritual Sunday dinner? Walter Yes, we usually ate at home, like any family, all of them eating at the Sunday Loftin, afternoon dinner. In fact, I remember many of our meals where the entire family ate Jr.: at the same time. It’s not done much today, is it? F.S.: Well, I’m not sure about most families. I know ours always did. What was your favorite meal? Walter Breakfast, I think. Loftin, Jr.: F.S.: Oh, breakfast. It wasn’t the Sunday dinner? Walter No, it was breakfast. Loftin, There was a man who lived about three houses from mine. I lived at 1511 and he Jr.: lived at 1517. He was the locomotive engineer for the Southern Railway, sort of a hero-type person. All young boys wanted to be a railroad engineer, so I spent a lot of time at his home. He would build things in the basement, little chairs and tool chests and things like that, and I would always watch him as he would make things with his tools. He was quite a machinist, and he once worked on a model replica of a full-size steam engine, similar to the type that he actually operated at the Southern Railway. But he died before that was ever completed. I just remember it being partially complete. F.S.: Do you know what ever happened to the model? Walter No, I don’t. It probably went to his sons. Loftin, Jr.: F.S.: Are they still in Alexandria? Walter No, most of his sons have died, and I don’t know of any descendants who still live in Loftin, the Alexandria area. Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 12 of 18

Jr.: F.S.: I’m going to jump forward a little bit. Well, no, first of all, let’s talk about upper King Street and how the businesses were. You said it was mostly residential. I assume, because King Street has been primarily a commercial street, that there were a lot of businesses. Businesses on King Street Walter From the place around [unclear], which was Henry Street, west, there were a few Loftin, stores in each block—shoe stores, grocery stores, furniture stores, various type of Jr.: small businesses of that nature; some drugstores, and some small shops that sold various things but not large stores. Then west of where I lived there was a grocery store, at King and Harvard. There was Acme Market across the street, on the 1600- block, that later became a different store. It was repurchased by some other grocery chain and changed its name several times. Across the street there was a store, a Western Auto store, which is a commercial type that still exists today. Then in 1934 or [19]35, a large, new, modern, at that time, theater was built, which had the very latest movie. [The Ignormar Theater, located at 507 King Street. It closed in 1953.] It had a large auditorium, and it was used in the architect of the day, which was, I believe—. F.S.: Art deco? Walter Art deco. It was the biggest theater in Alexandria for a while, until they eventually Loftin, built the Virginia Theater on First Street, off of North Washington Street. That Jr.: theater is no longer there. Today there is a tall office building, which is on the same site. But it was the change in times, when large theaters went, usually, out of business because of the television and other things that caused them to lose out. But the only theater I remember going to when I was small, the Richmond Theater, is now called the Old Town Theater, and it still exists today, although it’s closed temporarily for a while, until they can get funds to reopen it again. F.S.: So did you spend much time in the movies? Walter Quite a bit. That was the biggest recreation for children at that time. We did have a Loftin, new roller-skating rink that was built on North St. Asaph Street, when I was a junior Jr.: in high school, I believe it was, which would have been 1947. That was a recreation place for many years, until that was eventually torn down and a big hotel built on the site. F.S.: Which hotel is there now? The Sheraton? Walter The Sheraton Suites. Loftin, Jr.: F.S.: And that was a roller rink once. Walter On that site, or block. Right. Loftin, Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 13 of 18

Jr.:

The roller skating rink on North St. Asaph Street opened in 1948, closed in 1979, and was demolished in 1986. Photo taken by Ed Whipple in the early 1980s.

Travel F.S.: I’m going to use this next question as a segue to where we’re going to go, further in your life. But you had mentioned that it wasn’t necessarily playing on the train cars, at your father’s work, that was such an influence, but it was your mother taking you on train trips that really influenced your life. Walter Loftin, Jr.: I think it was a combination of both, because everything connected to railroads was very fascinating, and there were a lot of young boys at the time who liked to go places, and liked to travel. [end of Side 1] Start of Side 2 of tape F.S.: We’re continuing. You were saying you like to travel anywhere in the United States. Walter Loftin, Jr.: Yes. I like to travel, and I like to go places on trains, just like anyone. I started traveling when I was probably a small infant, and just did it as a matter of course, through my entire life. Then when I graduated from college, I wanted to go places where I’d never been before. As I recalled earlier, I had a pass, as did the other members of the family, to ride Southern Railway trains, so I concentrated on destinations which were on the Southern Railway system. I remember the most distant location I wanted to go for many years was New Orleans, because Southern Railway went that far. I waited a while, until they built the new station, in 1954, I believe it was, and made the trip to New Orleans. Then, thereafter, I went there perhaps a dozen or more times, over the years. But I went to visit my sister Elaine when she lived in Colorado, when her children were very small. She lived there off and on over the succeeding years, so I actually visited Colorado perhaps twenty-five Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 14 of 18

or fifty times over my lifetime. F.S.: Wow. That’s seeing a lot of the country by rail, if you took a train every time. Walter Loftin, Jr.: Yes. It seemed to be the most adventurous way, and you could always meet people. You could walk around. It was the most relaxing way to travel, and the most enjoyable. F.S.: And no security checkpoints. Walter Loftin, Jr.: None of that. In fact, we could sometimes travel, as children almost any age, without a parent or an adult with us, but today they won’t even let a child under twelve travel alone unless they have a certificate from their parents. F.S.: Oh, really? Walter Loftin, Jr.: They’re very security-minded now. Business Ventures F.S.: Well, why don’t we talk about your business ventures? After you finished substitute teaching…and I assume this was after 1980 or around there? Walter Loftin, Jr.: No, before that. Around 1960 or [19]61 or [19]62, I formed a company called Rail Travel, and then I added “Association” to it, and decided to incorporate it, to operate excursion trips, special trains, anything related to rail travel. That’s why we took the name Rail Travel Association. I purchased a railroad car from the EJ&E [Elgin, Joliet, and Eastern] Railroad, which was an old business car originally built in 1904 as a Pullman car. It was later converted to a business car by the EJ&E, used as one of their executive cars up until they sold it in the early [19]60s. I actually went to see the car several years before I purchased it. I purchased it in June of 1964. The car was of an older design. It had the type of wheels that were no longer allowed interchange on regular trains, on regular passenger trains. [The wheels] were in a frame called “composite trucks.” A railroad, individually, could accept it, but interchange meant a car was acceptable to go on any railroad; to pass from one railroad to the other. So three years later, through my corporation, I bought another car that was more modern, about ten to fifteen years more modern. It was built about 1916, I believe. I bought that car from the Burlington Railroad, which offered it for sale when they had a surplus of cars. That was acceptable for interchange, which met my needs, because then I could run excursion trips with that car on any passenger train in the United States. It was fairly successful, up to the point where we ran out of operating capital, so I decided to sell the car, and at some time in the future get Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 15 of 18

another one. So it was sold along the way, and my first car was also sold in 1980. I still operated trips from time to time but usually shorter trips, and without the use of my own railroad car. Sometimes I could lease cars, or set up trips using other people’s cars. I worked with some other people who owned cars, and we did trips over the years. F.S.: Now, owning a railroad car or two—where does one park them, in Alexandria? Walter Loftin, Jr.: When the first car was delivered to me, in care of the Potomac Yard, Alexandria, Virginia, I was notified. The car was shipped to me, pulled on a freight train. It arrived in July 1964, and at that point I didn’t have a set-aside siding to put it, so I left it in the yard for a few months. Finally, they said I had to find a track to move the car to. So at that time I was working for RF&P Railroad, in the Alexandria ticket office. I noticed there were several freight tracks across from the railroad station that were usually empty, so I inquired, through the railroad I worked for, and said, “Could I rent one of those tracks?” They agreed to do that, for $50 a month—which, at that time, was a large amount of money. F.S.: It sounds really expensive. Walter Loftin, Jr.: Fifty-dollars a month can equate to—five, twelve—$600 a year. But I did move it there for the temporary period of time, and later, before a year was up, I found a siding in Alexandria that was not being used by anybody. I went to the owner of the siding and asked him if I could park the car there, and they said okay. Then, for a period of time, I loaned the car to a short-line railroad in Pennsylvania, called the Everett Railroad, and the agreement was that they’d keep the car, keep it maintained, and I could go there and ride the car anytime I wanted to ride it. But the length of track they operated on was only three miles, which was not very much considering that there were hundreds of thousands of miles of track in the United States. So after leaving there, I took the car—I moved it from that point to Winchester, Virginia, during the Apple Blossom Festival one year, to put it on exhibit. When that was over, I moved the car up to another short-line railroad in Cooperstown, New York, which was further away. It was hard to keep track of the day-to-day details of the car. After a few years up there, I decided they weren’t taking good care of the car, so I requested to bring it back. I brought it back to Alexandria, then I found a siding off of Telegraph Road. It had a name for the street that went by, but I can’t recall it right now. I kept it there, for no charge, for several years. Then, of course, three years later, when I got the other car, I put the other car on the same siding, too. Well, eventually, time went on, and they wanted to do some changing Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 16 of 18

around in that area, so they asked me to find another location for the car. The second car I got, I found another siding off of Roberts Lane, which is about four or five blocks south of the Union Station, a siding that was not used, and I asked them the same question. Could I use the track to park this car on, and they said okay. They didn’t charge anything either. So eventually the car was moved around to various places in Virginia. I took it to Appomattox, Virginia, one year and put it on exhibit at a new city festival they were starting that year, called Appomattox Railroad Festival. After the car left there, it was moved back to Roanoke and put on exhibit there in Lynchburg, [at the location of the Southern Railroad interchange] and then brought back to Alexandria. Now during this time I found out about an excursion train that was being operated on Fort Eustis Military Reservation [near Newport News, Virginia.] That was a regular Army post that trained transportation corps army personnel for the [unclear] operation of trains. Since I’d been in the Army Reserve, and also in the transportation corps at Fort Eustis, several years, I was familiar with the track [unclear] and I knew where it would operate. So I moved it there about a week before the event, then operated it successfully on that trip, and brought it back to the Alexandria area. Then, eventually, I brought the car, after returning to Alexandria. It sat in the Alexandria [rail] yard for a while. It was on exhibit in Alexandria, during Alexandria Days Festival, in July and August of 1965. F.S.: I don’t think we have Alexandria Day Festival anymore, do we? Walter Loftin, Jr.: What we have now is the birthday celebration. F.S.: The birthday celebration. That’s when it was. Walter Loftin, Jr.: At that time, the Southern Railway had a track that went from Potomac Yard, down along Royal Street—excuse me, not Royal Street, along Union Street, and it went south of what is now Old Town. It went through the old Wilkes Street Tunnel. Then it went back to their yard, which existed from South Henry Street, up two or three miles. That was their main yard for Alexandria. The Washington Division Headquarters were actually located in Alexandria, Virginia, although their general headquarters building was located in Washington, D.C. F.S.: Right. So eventually you sold your cars, but you’re still in the railroad business, because last year you were involved in starting a Santa train? Walter Loftin, Jr.: Yes. During the weeks when Amtrak first started, they were short of equipment. They only selected one-third of the total cars available in Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 17 of 18

the United States to do their system, which was trimmed back. So for many years they had no cars available, except for a few, rare occasions. So many private owners started buying up some surplus cars, either from railroads, or from other private car owners, or from private companies. When I first owned these two cars, I was perhaps one of only ten people in the United States who owned a railroad car privately. Now there are well over 250 around the country, because when they became fewer and scarcer, more people started buying them. Some of the owners would actually buy old, worn-out cars, and completely rebuild them into brand-new cars. F.S.: Is that what the Santa Express is? Walter Loftin, Jr.: No. The Santa Express is a VRE [Virginia Railway Express] train that runs on a regular schedule. We tried to get a special train and they didn’t have one available, so we just requested so-many seats on one of their regular trains, and that way we were able to do the trips, and give a fun train ride to the children, with Santa aboard, using the regular trains. So we do, through my company, not only regular train trips, but various train trips. I can lease any private car in the country that’s available for charter, and do the same types of trips, anywhere in the North American continent—Mexico, the United States, and Canada—because they all use the same-gauge tracks, and they all interchange with each other. F.S.: Well, you certainly have been riding the rails, from 1931 to 2006, and you still have ideas about how to get more people on board, I guess. I wish you good luck. Is there anything else you want to say, to sum up these seventy-five years? Walter Loftin, Jr.: Well, in 1955 I joined the National Railway Historical Society, Washington, D.C., chapter, because it was one of the very few existing historical societies that I knew of, that specialized in railroads. So I became a fifty-year member of that last year. [19]55 and 2005. That would be fifty years. F.S.: Fantastic. Walter Loftin, Jr.: They had always been, traditionally, operating special trains over the years, and this is where I got my first ideas. In fact, I went on a lot of other trips, with other organizations, to formulate the idea of doing it in and around Washington, D.C. And although the Washington, D.C., chapter did trips, they usually only did one in the spring and one in the fall, and I thought we should have something going on year-round. In fact, for a while I was their trip-committee chairman. I arranged and operated the trips for the chapter. F.S.: So you’re still trying to bring trips year-round, and right here in Alexandria. Interview with Walter Loftin, Jr., November 20, 2006 Page 18 of 18

Walter Loftin, Jr.: And expand them. And also, because—it was a foolish thing to abandon so many railroads over the years, and suspend passenger service at the very time they were actually needed. The highways were dilapidated until they built the interstates, and the aviation industry started off with heavy subsidies, in the 1930s. Well, actually, some of it was started as early as the late [19]20s. Yet, the railroads had to pay for the full expenses, and as a consequence they lost more and more money, so they wanted to abandon the passenger service altogether. But if there had been some politicians who had been smart enough to realize—well, some did that. Some few existed, and they’ve been growing ever since. Then when Amtrak took over the passenger service in 1971, they began to rebuild it. But they never have appropriated enough funds to do what really should be done. What they should have done was what they do with the interstate; they should have did it full—. F.S.: Right. They should have incorporated the two of them together. Walter Loftin, Jr.: Well, actually, they should have done as much for the rails as they did for the interstate. F.S.: Well, I thank you very much for this interview. It’s been very helpful, and historians will love hearing all your tales of the rails, for the last seventy-five years. I’ll say thank you. Walter Loftin, Jr.: Well, that’s only the beginning. There are probably hundreds more things that I didn’t talk about today. [End]