Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 23 APRIL 1975

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Auctioneers and Agents, &c., Bill [23 APRIL 1975] Questions Upon Notice 955

WEDNESDAY, 23 APRIL 1975

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. J. E. H. Houghton, Redcliffe) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m.

PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table:- Proclamation under the Education Act 1964-1974. Regulation under the Main Roads Act 1920-1972. By-laws under the Education Act 1964- 1974.

PETITION PROPOSED NEW LOCAL AUTHORITY OF HERVEY BAY Mr. POWELL (Isis) presented a petition from 2,655 residents of Hervey Bay and Fraser Island praying that the Parliament of Queensland will include within the bound­ aries of the proposed new local authority of Hervey Bay the islands of the Great Sandy Straits, including Fraser Island. Petition read and received.

QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE

GLADSTONE POWER STATION iVIr. Burns, pursuant to notice, asked The Ivl inister for Mines,- ( 1) Will the first stage of Glad stone power-station generation be commissioned in time to assist in meeting the 1975 winter-load demand for South-east Queens­ land and, if not, what is the anticipated commissioning date? (2) What is the anticipated peak elec­ tricity demand for South-east Queensland for the 1975 winter? ( 3) If the first stage will not be com­ missioned in time, what generating units of what capacities will have to be used to meet the load? ( 4) What would be the financial cost to the community for each month of defer­ ment of the commissioning of the power station beyond the original planned date?

Answers:- (!) "No. The first set is programmed for commissioning in September, 1975." (2) "1,347 megawatts." ( 3) "The total capacity of available generating units for the winter of 1975 will be 1,598 megawatts." ( 4) "This is an academic question as the plant is being constructed as quickly as possible and its completion is not being deferred." 956 Questions Upon Notice [23 APRIL 1975] Questions Upon Notice

HOUSING AND HOSPITAL FOR NEW ( 6) Did the Q.D.O. object to this pro­ PORT, BRISBANE posal and, if not, why did the Q.D.O. Mr. Burns, pursuant to notice, asked The object to a co-operative and not to an Premier,- application involving the Pauls monopoly? (7) If a I:cence to pasteurise milk could {!) In view of the proposed increased development in the Wynnum area owing not be granted to Logan and Albert Co­ to the construction of the new port com­ operative in its own right, how was it plex at Fisherman Island, what steps are possible when the monopoly group was being taken for the construction of Housing involved? Commission houses for the many additional (8) Who is the supreme authority on workers who will wish to obtain rental dairy matters, the Minister or the Q.D.O.? accommodation in the Wynnum area? (9) Where does he stand in relation to (2) As the new port complex could the growing monopoly in the milk indus­ also create situations where hospital treat­ try and does he favour monopoly or ment will be urgently needed, has a co-operatism? decision been made in relation to the provision of a hospital in the Wynnum Answers:­ area to serve the growing number of residents in this area, as well as to provide (!) "Yes." hospital facilities for the port? (2) "The report by departmental officers indicated that the proposed plant would comply with the provisions of the Answers:- Dairy Produce Acts but the application (I) "There are approximately 2,000 was not approved as economical by them. workers associated with the general cargo A recommendation was made to the port facilities in Brisbane whose homes Minister not to grant the licence." are situated throughout the city and sub­ urbs generally. Whilst the Honourable (3) "The policy of the Q.D.O. was to Member can be assured that my Govern­ oppose the establishment of a milk ment will do everything necessary to ensure pasteurisation plant at Beaudesert on the adequate accommodation exists for all the grounds that the area was already being citizens of Brisbane, it could be en·one­ well serviced and the market was insuf­ ously presumptive to reach any conclusion ficient to be economical." at this stage as to where port workers (4) "Yes." will wish to reside." (5) "Yes." (2) "First aid facilities will be provided ( 6) "The Q.D.O. did not support the within the port complex." proposal." (7) "Arrangements were made for Beaudesert Milk Pty. Ltd. to share cer­ MILK-PASTEURISATION PLANT, tain of the market being supplied by BEAUDESERT Gold Coast Milk Ltd. thus improving the Mr. Bums, pursuant to notice, asked The economic feasibility of the proposal." Minister for Primary Industries,- (8) "It is my policy to consult pro­ (!) Did the Logan and Albert Co­ perly constituted industry organisations on operative Dairy Association Ltd. apply matters concerning their members. The for a licence to install and operate a question of supremacy does not arise." milk-pasteurisation plant at Beaudesert? (9) "The Minister decides every case (2) ':Vas the application approved as on its merits without fear or favour." econonucal by departmental officers and was a recommendation made to him to grant the licence? PRIVATE BANKS ACCESS TO STATE SCHOOLS (3) Did the Q.D.O. object on the grounds that no more pasteurisation plants M.r. F.rawley, pursuant to notice, asked The were needed and was the licence then not Minister for Education,- granted? Are private banks allowed access to State schools in the same manner as the ( 4) Was another application lodged, Commonweaith Bank and, if not, what under the Milk Act, in the name of Beau­ are the reasons? desert Milk Pty. Ltd.? (5) Did this application result from a Answer:- conference in which he backed a joint "No. The Commonwealth Savings Bank move by Logan and Albert Co-operative Agreement Act of 1966 states that-'The and Gold Coast Milk or South Coast State undertakes and agrees with the Sav­ Pauls for a licence to pasteurise milk and ings Bank during the currency of the a franchise for most of Beaudesert Shire? Agreement that . . . the State will in Questions Upon Notice [23 APRIL 1975] Questions Upon Notice 957

every possible way aid, assist and further Plan, which was commissioned in Sep­ the interests of the Savings Bank in the tember, 1974 at a cost of $6,000 and which, conduct of its banking business in the if accepted, will prevent the Housing Cor;:::­ State of Queensland.' The guarantee of mission from building on a large pro­ sole access to State schools is implicit in portion of the land held in the Rothwell this provision and is one of the considera­ area? tions for benefits flowing to the State under the Act which is administered by (2) What land has been purchased by my colleague the Honourable the the commission between Nathan Road, Treasurer." Redcliffe and the borders of the Cabool­ ture and Pine River Shires, listing (a) TEMPORARY CLASSROOMS, BURPENGARY the names of all vendors, (b) the amount AND ELIMBAH STATE SCHOOLS of !and, (c) the total purchase price paid Mr. Frawley, pursuant to notice, asked The to each vendor and (d) the date of each Minister for Works,- purchase? ( 1) Will he give urgent consideration (3) Did the commission have any prior to a request for temporary classroom knowledne of the Deception Bay-Rothwell accommodation at Burpengary and Elim­ Strategy"' Plan before the land was pur­ bah State Schools? chased? (2) As accommodation is severely taxed at the schools, are any plans in hand to ( 4) Has he ascertained if the Redcliffe provide more teaching areas? City Council advised his department of the proposed plan before any land was Answer:- purchased by the commission? ( I and 2) "These matters are under (5) Does he intend to request the Red­ consideration by my departmental officers cliffe City Council to purchase any land in conjunction with officers of the Educa­ tion Department. Planning cannot com­ on which the commission is prevented mence until a determination has been from erecting houses by a council decision made in relation to accommodation require­ and will the price asked be the same as ments and funds available." that paid?

DECEPTION BAY-ROTHWELL STRATEGY PLAN Answers:- Mr. Frawley, pursuant to notice, asked The (1) "I have seen the Press report and Minister for Works,- anticipate that the council will officially ( 1) Is he aware that the Redcliffe Cj_ty advise the Queensland Housing Commis­ Council has received a report known as sion of the details of the plan in the near the Deception Bay-Rothwell Strategy future."

(2)-

I Area I Date of "Owners !______Price Purchase I 1 Offer

J acres roods perches ·------j------1----- 1----- $ I V. W. and M. Frost . . 1 11 3 20 71,250 9-8-73 A. R. and M. D. Lawrence .. 12 2 0·9 75,034 9-8-73 J. P. and M. M. Croghan I1 16 2 18·8 99,750 9-8-73 M. J. McKillop . . . . , 23 I 17·0 163,450 18-10-73 W. C. and R. J. and B. H. and D. V. I Gynther ...... 1 47 1 39 380,000 9-8-73 E. C. and E. M. Kerr I 33 0 10·4 264,000 9-8-73 C. E. and L. M. Kroll 1 77 0 33·2 592,000 8-2-74 G. E. and E. E. Kroll i 10 0 0 100,000 8-2-74 C. H. and N. B. Birch ! 3 0 0 36,000 15-5-74"

(3) "Not prior to October 11, 1973. (4) "See Answer to (3)." At that time the negotiations for the land (5) 'This is a matter to be considered owned by C. E. and L. M. N. Kroll and when the details of the strategy plan are by G. E. and E. E. Kroll and by C. H. known and have been discussed with coun­ and N. B. Birth were not finalised. The cil. The Redcliffe Council and the Hous­ commission referred the matter of utilisa­ ing Commission have always been able to tion of such land to the council and was co-operate very satisfactorily and I .would advised that no reason was seen why it expect to receive the full co-operatwn of should not be used for housing." the council in the matter which has arisen." 958 Questions Upon Notice [23 APRIL 1975] Questions Upon Notice

DRUG DIODOQUIN ( 4) What action is necessary to protect the rights of holders of policies whose Mr. Lindsay, pursuant to notice, asked The vehicies have been damaged and have not Minister for Health,- been repaired at the expense of the com­ ( 1) Is he av. are that the drug diodoquin pany? has recentlv been removed from the free list and as- a result is likely to go out of ( 5) What action does he intend to take production? to ensure that holders of policies are indemnified in respect of claims made (2) Is he oware that the drug is the ag"inst them, which arise from accidents? only cure for a rare fat disca::e of which thei·e are only approximately 20 known c,;scs i:> the world, with seven in Australia A nsH·ers:-- and one in Queensland? (I) "Yes.'" (3) As a 14-year-old boy has taken (2) ''No return has been furnished. The diodoquin successfully for the past twelve return nursuant to Section 20 is required years and his two older brothers died in respect of the insurer's financial year. of the disease before specialists diagnosed Capricorn's financial year ended on it and prescribed diodoquin, will he December 31, 1974 and the date for. lodge­ investigate the matter with a view either ment of the return was not due until after to returning the drug to the free list or the Insurance Commissioner had given giving an assurance to the boy and his notice of his intention to cancel the com­ long-sufTering parents that the drug will pany's licence." cOJ:jnue to be manufactured and sold by Queensland chemists? (3) "Enquiries were made in relation to complaints from policyholders but the In<;urance Commissioner had no reason An:,-wer:- to make any examination as to the manner (1 to 3) "As the Honourable Member is in which the business of Capricorn was no doubt aware the responsibility for alloca­ being carried on." tion of drugs on the Pharmaceutical Bene­ ( 4 and 5) "Unfortunately, no action fits Li:t is a matter for the Common­ wealth Gcwernment. The particular drug can be taken. The liquidators of the com­ cDncerr:ed vas removed from the list after pany will attend to its winding-up and con:inual reports of adverse reactions which any unpaid claims should be brought to included the production of serious eye their attention." defects. The Director-General of Health and Medical Services will tnke up the matter with the Commomrealth Depart­ ment of Henlth and the relevant drug firm. Should the patient's medical practitioner (b) Mr. Lindsay, pursuant to notice, asked or his parents wish to di5cuss the matte,. The Treasurer,- further, the Director-General will be only ( 1) With regard to the case of Anthony too ple:1~ed to make an appointment." La\; rence Creighton, the owner of .a Valiant station wagon insured with Capn­ corn Insurance Ltd. as at February 23 and whose wife is a paraplegic, what action CAPRICORN INSURANCE LTD. wiil he take to ensure that Mr. Creighton's (a) Mr. Lindsay, pursuant to notice, asked vehicle is repaired promptly and without The Treasurer,- any cost to him? ( 1) Was Capricorn Insurance Ltd. (2) What action will he take to ensure licensed under the provisions of "The that Mr. Creighton will be indemnified Insurance Acts, 1960 to 1968" us at Feb­ by Capricorn Insurance Ltd. or by some ruary 23? other body in respect of the claim 11_1~de against him by B.P. Aust. Ltd., ansmg (2) Did the company furnish to the f;om the accident in which his vehicle Insurance Commissioner a profit and loss was involved on February 23? account relating to its business in Queens­ lnncl for 1973-74, was the account certified (3) Will he give serious considerat~on as required by section 20 (2) of the Acts to enacting special legislation to provide and was a statutory declaration lodged for indemnity by The N orninal Defendant pursuant to section 20 (3)? If so, will or the S.G.I.O. to holders of policies of he table the account, the certification and insurance with Capricorn Insurance Ltd.? the declaration? ( 4) In an endeavour to avoid the con­ ( 3) Did the commissioner or any officer siderable distress to holders of compre­ appointed under the Act make any hensive insurance policies in similar cir­ examination and inquiry to ascertain the cumstances, will he amend the Motor manner in which the business of the com­ Vehicles Insurance Act to provide com­ pany was being carried on prior to pulsory comprehensive insurance of all February 23? motor vehicles registered in Queensland? Questions Upon Notice (23 APRIL 1975] Questions Upon Notice 959

Answers:- Answer:- ( I and 2) "I have no specific know­ "WouJd the Honourable Member repeat ledge of the case of Mr. Creighton. How­ his Question for tomorrow." ever, I understand that Mr. A. L Creighton wiil be liable for repairs to his vehicle and, as Capricorn Insurance Limited has COMMONWEALTH--STATE FINANCIAL proceeded into liquidation, he will also be , \.GREEMENTS responsible for his liability at law by way of damages as a result of the accident on Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked The February 23, 1975. Of course, after pay­ Premier,- ment of any amounts, Mr. Creighton ( 1) How many financial agreements should lodge claims with the liquidators have been ~igned between his Government for recovery if and when dividends may be and the Commonwealth Government this declared." financial year? ( 3) "The Nominal Defendant (Queens­ (2) Who signed each agreement on land) has carried out rescue operations behalf of the Commonwealth Government following previous failures, but only in and the State Government, what was the respect of claims for damages as a result value of each agreement and what progress of accidental bodily injury and not for of works or other expenditure does each property damage claims. Consideration agreement cover? will be given to similar actio11 in respect of accide:Jtal bodily injury should circum­ Answer:- stances warrant this as a result of the (1 and 2) "The collation of the inform­ liquidation of Capricorn Insurance ation in the manner sought by the Honour­ Limited." able Member would involve a considerable ( 4) ''It does not appear feasible to amount of detailed work in several Gov­ introduce legislation to compel all motor ernment departments. All financial agree­ vehicle owners to effect comprehensive ments have been the subject of responsible n1otor vehicle insurance." and detailed consideration during the course of their nel!otiation and prior to approval and I do ~ot propose to expend MORETON REGION GROWTH the time and energy of a number of STRATEGY STUDY oft1cers in preparing the schedule of details sought." (a) Mr. Lane, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Survey,- (1) With reference to the Moreton REPAINTING, MORNINGS!DE STATE Region Growth Strategy investigations and SCHOOL specifica!ly to Task No. 4 under that pro­ Mr. Hm;s~on, pursuant to notice, asked The gramme, to what extent will the major Minister for Works,- hospitals in this State be analysed? When is it intended to start (a) the (2) Is the detailed examination of the internal and (b) the external repainting of inkr;1al workings of individual hospitals the Morningside State School? invoh ed or will this represent a duplica­ tion of the planning and programming already well advanced by the Department Answer:- of Health? ''No indication can be given s_t this stage having regard to the present financial Answer:- climate." "Would the Honourable Member repeat his Question for tomorrow." LIQUOR TRADING HOURS, LICENSED CLUBS Mr. Akers, pursuant to notice, asked The (b) Mr. Lane, pursuant to notice, asked Minister for Justice,- The Minister for Survey,- ( 1) Further to his Answer to a Question ( 1) With reference to the Moreton by the Honourable Member for Lands­ Region Growth Strategy investigations, borough on April 16, is he aware that the when all the study is completed, hov. will Licensing Commission, in enforcing its it be used in a practical way by the new policy on shorter club trading hours, governments and local authorities in the is amending current permits as well as Moreton Region? restricting new permits? (2) Will the findings of the committee (2) Has his attention been drawn to be binding on any of these levels of gov­ this unjust action which has created hard­ ernment? ship for clubs which were budgeting on (3) Does the stud} in any way cut across having the usual full rights of a permit? or duplicate the activities of existing Local (3) Will he investigate the restriction GoYernment or Main Roads Departments of permits Nos. 13859, 13861 and 13873 or shire or city councils? issued to the Brisbane Speedway Club 960 Questions Upon l'ioticc [23 APRIL 1975] Questions Upon Notice

with a view to allowing this club to give STRENGTH, AUSTRALIA PoLICE service to its members, most of whom are FoRCE racing on Saturday nights until 11 p.m., which is the new restricted finishing time? Mr. Hartwig, pursuant to notice, asked The Premier,- ( 4) Will he institute proceedings to Is he aware that a reliable estimate amend the Liquor Act so that ail clubs places the number of Commonwealth Police are treated equally and golf and bowling in Queensland at in excess of 5.000 clubs are not given preference? officers? If this figure is correct, will he ascertain the purpose of this large force? AnsH'Crs:- Answer:- (l) "Yes." "The present strength of the newly­ (2) "Yes-but the practice is not con­ formed Australia Police Force at the sidered unjust." moment is believed to be about 2,000. However, judging by the recent expansion (3) "Yes. The Brisbane Speedway Club of senior positions in the force by 250 has appealed to the Full Commission per cent., !t is reasonable to assume that against the decision of the Licensing Com­ there will be a corresponding expansion mission delegatee/.member to reduce the of lower ranks to bring their total strength hours to 11 p.m." to somewhere around the figure of 5,000. The real motive and purpose behind this ( 4) "No amendment to the Liquor Act sudden decision to create a Common­ is contemplated at this moment." wealth Police Force of this magnitude is a matter of deep concern to me. It is not known for what purpose this large CHILDREN INJURED BY MOTOR-CYCLES, increase has occurred and it has not been TRAIL BIKES AND MINI-BIKES stated whether or not the members of this force will be in uniform. It is also not (a) Mr. Akers, pursuant to notice, asked known what share of this 5,000 will be The Minister for Health,- deployed in the State of Queensland." How many children have been admitted to hospitals this vear as a result of bein o SAFETY FACTOR IN LIGHT COLOUR hit by motor-bikes, trail bikes and mini.: OF MOTOR VEIDCLES hikes and what types of injuries were received'? Mr. Hartwig, pursuant to notice, asked The ~Minister for Transport,- Answer:- ! n view of the serious road toll in Queensland, has any research been carried "The information requested by the Hon­ out into the colours of motor vehicles, ourable Member is not readily available as light-coloured ve:~1icles are much more in the department nor in the Australian conspicuous <:>gain~t a dark bitumen back­ Bureau of St8tistics. I am advised by ground than are vehicles of a darker the Medical Superintendent of the Royal colour? Children's Hospital that there are not many admissions due to this cause and Answer:- when such patients are admitted the injuries ''Yes. There has been a variety of are generally limb fractures." research into colours of motor vehicles. The Renault Motor Company announced that as a result of some research carried out by that company the most desirable colours for motor vehicles from the safetv (b) Mr. Akers, pursuant to notice, asked point of view were white, yellow, orange The Minister for Justice,- and red. A survey undertaken by the ( 1) As a six-year-old boy was hit by Goodyear Motor Company indicated that a young child riding a trail-bike on a the safest colour was bright orange. Pre­ public footpath last week-end and is now viously Merril Alien of the University of in hospital suffering from several serious Indiana in his work 'Vision and Highway injuries, what action is being taken to Safety' quoted that yellow, cream and curb this prevalent and extremely danger­ white vehicles were more identifiable. Mr. ous practice of children being in control Robert A. Nathan of the American of motor-bikes? National Safety Council's Motor Trans­ portation Department indicated that white, (2) As police officers state that they cream, ivory and light pink vehicles were have no power to act, what action is being easily identifiable. A Mr. Brian Leyland taken to give them the necessary power? in an address to the Australian Optomet­ rical Association Conference indicated Answer:- that lemon-yellow is the safest colour followed by white then red. I would hesi­ (1 and 2) 'These Questions should be tate to name colours in order of prefer­ directed to other Ministers." ence. However, there is no doubt that Questions Upon Notice [23 APRIL 1975] Questions Upon Notice 961

the lighter colours are better from a VISI­ millions of dollars for publicity, com­ bility point of view than the darker ones puters and administrative costs, and such as greens, blues, etc." hiliions of dollars in the future on top­ he"vy curcauc1 a tic control of Medibank, be saved? COIN-OPERATED BREATHALYSERS IN HOTELS AND CLUBS Answer:- JVI.r. Harhvig, pursuant to notice, asked The ( 1 to 4) "I would advise the Honourable Minister for Justice,- Member that the Commonwealth Health (1) As last year I suggested to him Insurance Act has received Royal Assent that clubs and hotels should be encouraged and the Medibank Programme will come to install coin-operated breathalyser into operation on July 1, 1975. I machines, are these machines in operation would also inform the Honourable l\1ember overseas? that my instructions from the Govern­ ment are to continue negotiations with the (2) Is it considered that this method, Commonwealth on the hospital component if made r~;·dily available to dri··,kers, would of the Medibank proposals to preserve the assi"t in making our road toll lighter? present arrangements of the free public Answers:- hospital system in Queer:sland, within the framework of the Commonwealth legisla­ (1) "Yes-in Canada." tion. Negotiations are currently proceed­ (2) "No." ing towards this end. The Honourable Member can be assured that the Govern­ ment of Queensland will do all within its LOWLANDS COASTAL STUDY, MARY­ power to preserve the free public hospital BOROUGH AREA system in Queensland, as the people of Mr. Alison, pursuant to notice, asked The Queensland know it, and whatever and Minister for Primary lndustries,- wherever possible, to improve upon it. What are the details of progress of the It is not possible to predict just what Lowlands Coastal Study being carried out effect legislation of this type will have on in the coastal lands near Maryborough medical and health services generally, but and when will the study be completed? I assure the Honourable Member that the high standard of health care within Answer:- our hospitals will be jealously guarded." "All field activities associated with the Coastal Lowlands Study have been com­ LOCAL AUTHORITY FINANCES pleted. Editing of the draft report and printing of maps are in progress, and the Mr. Wright, pursuant to notice, asked The committee expects that a report on the Minister for Local Government.- Study will be ready for publication in ( 1) In view of the worsening financial July." situation of local authorities, ~especially shire councils in beef-producing areas, what special assistance is being given to councils MEDIBANK HEALTH SCHEME by the State Government during this Mr. Alison, pursuant to notice, asked The critical period? Minister for Health,- (2) What was the total debt of local ( 1) As there is no doubt that the Com­ authorities for 1973-74 and what was the monwealth Government intends to national­ total amount owed to local authorities ise the medical and hospital services during that period? through its Medibank scheme, will this (3) What were (a) the total grants and mean that in due course all doctors will (b) the total loans made to local auth­ be on salaries paid by the Government and orities by the State Government during that all private hospitals will be taken each of the last five years and what are over by the Commonwealth Government? the present interest rates on the loans? (2) Will this mean a serious deteriora­ tion in the standard of medical and hos­ Answers:- pital services to all people, as has hap­ ( 1) "Due regard was had to the financial pened in every country overseas which position of local authorities in the beef has had the misfortune to have its medical producing areas in the distribution of $5 and hospital services nationalised com­ million special revenue assistance grants pletely? to local authorities in the current financial (3) Could not those people who are not year." presently covered by the existing medical (2) "These statistics are not presently and hospital benefits scheme be brought maintained by my Department, and it under the existing scheme very simply by would seem that the relevant statistics from an extension of benefits paid by the Com­ the Bureau of Census for the period are monwealth Government? not yet available." ( 4) If the present scheme was extended ( 3) ''This would be a matter for my to cover all people instead of setting up colleague, the Honourable the Deputy the Medibank scheme, would not the Premier and Treasurer." 962 Questions Upon Notice [23 APRIL 1975] Questions Upon Notice

BLOCK-RELEASE TRAINING PROGRAMME ( 4) "By way of assistance to apprentices Mr. Wright, pursuant to notice, asked The attending block Technical College classes, Minister for Industrial Development,- Cabinet has approved:-(a) That the sub­ sidies payable to apprentices required ( 1) What trades are now catered for by to reside away from their normal place the block-release training programme being conducted in Rockhampton? of residence in order to attend technical college classes, be as follows:-1st year, (2) What major trades have not yet $15.00 per week; 2nd year, $12.00 per been included in the programme and what week; and 3rd year, $10.00 per week. (b) are the reasons? That the costs incurred for travelling be (3) How many apprentices are now subsidised on a pro rata basis to all involved in block-release training in (a) apprentices, who, while travelling to col­ the central district and (b) Queensland? lege and returning home from college, are ( 4) Will he clarify the assistance avail­ in transit for one day or more. (c) That in able to apprentices in terms of accom­ cases where apprentices, who, because of modation, living and travelling allowances other financial commitments, experience and out-of-pocket expenses, etc., under the extreme financial difficulties while attend­ scheme? ing college, some flexibility be allowed to permit these cases to receive special (5) Is he aware of apprentices being consideration. (d) That when apprentices disadvantaged through their involvement who Jive in country areas and are required in the scheme and what avenues are open to travel in excess of two days to attend to them if this is the case? training consideration be given to provide them with economy class air tickets. (e) Answers:- That when convenient rail travel is unavail­ able to apprentices who are required to (1) "Apprentices in the following cal­ attend technical colleges, they be provided lings attend block release classes at the with alternative means of public transport." Rockhampton Technical College-boiler­ making, carpentry and/or joinery, electrical (5) "I am not aware of any apprentices fitting and/or mechanics, and fitting and/or having been disadvantaged through their turning." involvement in this scheme. On the con­ trary, the scheme possesses many advant­ (2) "Block release training does not yet ages. Protection regarding the conditions apply to all apprenticeship callings. Of of employment of apprentices attending the major callings to which it does apply, these classes is afforded under the provi­ most are catered for at the Rockhampton sions of the Apprenticeship Act 1964- Technical College. Exceptions to this are 1974." some callings in the printing industry. Because of the very large costs of estab­ lishing a Graphic Arts Technical College, TEACHER AIDES it is not feasible to provide more than one such college in Queensland and there­ l'.'Ir. Wright, pursuant to notice, asked The fore all apprentices in that industry have Minister for Education,- to attend the Brisbane College. The vast ( 1 ) How many teacher-aides are pre­ majority of other callings covered by block sently employed at (a) pre-school, (b) release training are small in numbers of primary and (c) secondary levels? apprentices and these numbers do not war­ (2) What qualifications are required for rant providing courses at more than one such employment? centre. Cabinet-making and bricklaying could be referred to as being medium-size (3) Are there any differences in quali­ callings in terms of numbers and these fication requirements for aides working at at present are not provided for in Rock­ the secondary level and, if so, what are hampton. If numbers of apprentices in the differences? these callings increase, I am certain that ( 4) Is preference given to ex-school my Colleague, the Honourable the Min­ teachers when teacher-aide appointments ister for Education and Cultural Activities, are made? will investigate the feasibility of providing training for these apprentices in more than Answers:- one centre." ( 1) "As teacher aides are employed on (3) "(a) Approximately 550 apprentices. a cr,sual basis in the Education Regions, A larger number than this attends the the information sought is not readily avail­ classes conducted at the Rockhampton able. However, figures are being compiled, Technical College due to the fact that and I will forward the information to the some apprentices from areas outside the Honourable Member when it is available." central district are required to attend clas­ (2) 'Teacher aides must be aged between ses in Rockhampton because they cannot 15 and 65 years. Beyond this, my Depart­ be accommodated in technical colleges in ment does not stipulate qualifications, leav­ their own areas. (b) Approximately ing it to principals to select suitable aides 7,200 apprentices will receive block release after interview. Each principal would have training in Queensland during 1975." different preferences, but generally, teacher Questions Upon Notice (23 APRIL 1975] Questions Upon Notice 963

aides should be of good appearance and LIQUIDATION OF K. D. MORRIS personality and, preferably, should have QUEENSLAND CoMPANIES experience in dealing with children." Dr. Crawford, pursuant to notice, asked (3) "No." The Minister for Justice,- ( 4) "As pointed out in part (2) of the ( 1) Has his attention been drawn to answer, principals select their own aides. an article in the Queensland Master Builder They then recommend to their regional concerning the Subcontractors' Charges directors the employment of such aides. Act 1974? Appointments are made entirely on the (2) As it would appear that it may merits of each applicant. I am unable to be factual that the K. D. Morris collapse say whether principals have given prefer­ was associated with the implementation ence to ex-teachers." of the provisions of this Act at a time of tight liquidity, will he ascertain whether this Act's provisions were related to the ATHERTON AND DISTRICT EDUCATION necessity to appoint a liquidator to the CENTRE Morris Queensland companies when the \fr. Tenni, pursuant to notice, asked The companies have managed to continue trad­ Minist-er for Educatiorr,- ing in other States? ( 1) Is he av,are of a Schools' Com­ Answers:- missiorr grant of approximately $44,000 being made available to the Atherton and (1) "Yes." District Education Centre? (2) "About the time the Subcontractors' (2) As the centre has submitted a con­ Charges Act came into operation, the econ­ stitution and articles of incorporation omy entered the worst downturn in living under the Charitable and Religious memory with rampant inflation, plummet­ Organizations Act, which have been ling land prices, and negative confidence. accepted by the Schools' Commission, why The Act was therefore exposed to the is there a delay in forwarding the grant stark reality of a collapsing industry. How­ to the centre? ever I can assure the Honourable Member that the Subcontractors' Charges Act was Answers:­ not the cause of the collapse of the com­ panies he mentions." (1) "Yes." (2) "The Canberra Office of the Schools Commission has advised that a letter was forwarded to the Atherton and District OFFENCES OF BEING IN CHARGE OF Education Centre on April 18, 1975, in MOTOR VEHICLE which it was stated that the Common­ (a) Dr. Crawford, pursuant to notice, wealth could not recommend to the State asked The Minister for Police,- that the grant to the Atherton and District ( 1) As Members of this Assembly are Centre be made until the Atherton and receiving representations from constituents District Centre complied with Section 43 with regard to the conviction of Bruce of the States Grants (Schools) Act 1973. McDonald, as reported in Sunday Sun of This section refers to the necessity for a April 20, when he obviousl_Y ha_d no centre to become a corporate body. I am intention of driving his car, m sp1te of aware that problems have occurred in the having consumed considerable quantities incorporation of some education centres, of alcohol, as his wife had the keys 16 including the one at Atherton. However, miles away, how is the Transport Act as a result of recent decisions, I hope that interpreted by the Police Department to these problems can now be overcome." prevent a citizen from sleeping in his own car if he wishes to do so?

LIQUOR PRICES, MAREEBA (2) How many similar cases are known to his department where an arrest has I\ir. Tenni, pursuant to notice, asked The occurred when the citizen resting or sleep­ Minister for Justice,- ing in the family car did not have ls he aware that persons in the town­ possession of car keys and what has been ship and district of Mareeba are paying the outcome of the cases? hotels 69 cents each for large bottles of beer, whilst the price in Brisbane hotels Answers:- is 52 cents, and that the price of a large (1) "The correctness of police inter­ bottle of Black Label whisky from hotels pretation of any section is assessed by in Mareeba is $11.40, whilst the price in the courts but the best source of legal Brisbane is $9.30? If so, what are the advice from the Government emanates extra costs involved? from the Department of the Attorney­ General and Justice. I suggest that the Answer:- Honourable Member redirect his Question "No. The Licensing Commission is to the Honourable the Minister for Justice examining the matter." and Attorney-General." 964 Questions Upon Notice [23 APRIL 1975] Questions Upon Notice

(2) ''There is no statistical record main­ of subsidies on fuel, country air services tained of this type of traffic breach and and the superphosphate bounty, I am without a great deal of research it is not unaware of its particular intentions regard­ possible to produce the number of cases ing Sales Tax increases in the next Com­ of this type known to police. However monwealth Budget. No doubt, however, it senior police officers are able to state fro~ will be greedily grasping at all kinds of personal recollection that there have been financial straws in a vain effort to halt other cases of this nature and the defend­ its headlong dash towards the Australian ants have been found guilty." economy's complete downfall and des­ truction."

(b) Dr. Crawford, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Transport,- CONTROL OF SURFBOARDS I\<1~, Dcaa, pursuant to notice, asked The As the Transport Act is currently being Minister for Community and Welfare reviewed, as evidenced by statements made by him in public recently, will he con­ Ser·:~ccs,- sider recasting that section of the Act ( l) Is he aware of the recommenda­ which assumes that a person who has car tions made to the New South Wales keys in his pocket will automatically be State Government from an enquiry into driving his car in the near future, or surfing, regarding design standards for where, as in the case of Bruce McDonald surfboards? an interpretation can be placed on th~ wording of the Act which allows an arrest (2) Is he considering any proposals for when he is in the car but does not have registration with annual inspections of the keys in his possession? boards and proper design features for surfboards used in Queensland? Answcr:- AIZSlV::rs:- "I assume the Honourable Niember is referring to the Traffic Act. There is no (1} "Yes." provision in that Act to provide for the assumption that a person who has his car {2) "No." keys in his pocket will automatically be driving his car in the near future. 'Whether the possession of the keys of a car has HEIGHT GAUGE FOR SEMI-TRAILERS, any bearing on whether a person is in CAPTAIN COOK BRIDGE charge of that car is a question of fact to be determined by the- court in con­ IVIr. Kaus, pursuant to notice, asked The junction with any other evidence which Minister for Local Government,- may be tendered in relation to the par­ Will he investigate the erection of a ticular offence. I am not aware of the height gauge for semi-trailers on the circumstances surrounding the case of outward-bound lane on the town side of Bruce McDonald but if he was convicted by the Captain Cook Bridge for the safety a court of competent jurisdiction he would of the Vulture Street pass-over and the have the right of appeal to a superior possibility of avoiding traffic accidents on court." the freeway?

Answer:- SALES TAX ON FARM MACHINERY "Height gauges are not normally erected Mr. Neal, pursuant to notice, asked The at bridges where the clearances exceed the Premier,- statutory height limit for vehicles using Is he aware of any proposals by the public roads. It is illegal for any operator Commonwealth Government to add a to drive a vehicle on any road in excess further 15 per cent. sales tax to the of the statutory height limit of 4·4196 purchase price of all new farm machinery metres for a double deck omnibus or and are the proposals based on the 4·2672 metres for any other vehicle with­ opmiOn by that Government that the out a police permit. The Vulture Street farming sector of primary industry is the Bridge provides at least 0 · 3 metre clearance area most able to bear the additional tax? above the statutory limits on the outbound carriageway and to date has not been a matter for concern. It is considered that Answer:- too much publicity cannot be given to the "While the Commonwealth Government possible serious consequences which may has left nobody in doubt as to its arise from the careless or deliberate flout­ attitude to Australian primary producers, ing of Traffic Regulations. A height as evidenced by its actions in relation to gauge would not necessarily eliminate such three revaluations, the removal of Income possible serious consequences resulting Tax concessions and incentives, the removal from an overheight vehicle." Questions Upon Notice [23 APRIL 1975] Questions Without Notice 965

MOTOR VEHICLE INSURANCE QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE PREMIUM CATEGORIES DISMISSAL AND RE-EMPLOYMENT OF Mr. Doumany, pursuant to notice, asked WoRKS DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEES The Treasurer,- Mr. BURNS: I ask the Minister for Works ( 1) Is he aware of an article which and Housing: Is he aware of reports that appeared in the Telegraph of April 21 Works Department employees were dis­ dealing with the inequitable and dis­ missed from jobs at the Mansfield State criminatory aspects of the category system School on Wednesday and that the same men used by most motor vehicle insurance were re-employed on the same job on Mon­ companies to fix premiums? day under the R.E.D. scheme? Why were these men subjected to this unnecessary fear (2) In view of the crude, arbitrary and and hardship, and is his department carry­ sweeping application of these categories ing out this type of policy in other areas? and the consequential heavy penalties imposed on many makes and models of Mr. LEE: I am aware of this situation, vehicles and their owners without any and 1 am astounded that such a question explicit explanation, will he (a) initiate should be asked by the Leader of the Opposi­ an immediate review of the system and tion, who knows full well the policies of the effect such changes as may be required to central Government. That Government is ensure its equitable operation throughout placing the State Government in such a the community, (b) include in such a position that it is necessary to dismiss men. revision specific correction of inequities They then walk around the corner to the caused by the absence of realistic allow­ employment office, and the central Govern­ ance for the age and depreciated value of ment informs the Department of Works a vehicle and the convenient vagueness of where they can be employed. In fact, the the basis for assessing vehicle values and same men return to the same job. It is a (c) provide for compulsory publication of disgraceful situation brought about by pure the criteria used by the insurance com­ socialism and centralism. panies to fix categories and premiums? ALLEGED DEFAMATORY MATERIAL PUBLISHED llY STUDENTS' UNION, JAMES COOK Answers:­ UNIVERSITY (1) "Yes." Mr. AIKENS: I ask the Minister for Justice: As the material in the placard that (2) "Category numbers are a feature of I now display in the Chamber is grossly the Safety Record Plan of comprehensive cowardly and defamatory, and, further, as motor vehicle insurance which was formu­ it was printed by the James Cook University lated by the Fire and Accident Under­ of North Queensland printery and published writers' Association of Australia and by the Students' Union of that university, will he inform the House if either or both approved by the Insurance Commissioner of these bodies can be sued for damages in for use in Queensland as an alternative to a court of competent jurisdiction? the sum insured policy. The Safety Record Plan provides market value cover and has Mr. KNOX: I am not familiar with the been adopted by most insurers. The publication. What is the name of it? category numbers are determined by an Mr. AIKENS: Well, it is ascribed, in a Insurers' Committee in Melbourne on the cowardly way, to "The Townsville Daily basis of either the actual claims experience Bulletin", but it was printed at the James of each type of car or, in the case of new Cook University printery. That shows how models, by reference to their character­ cowardly it is. It was allegedly an exclusive istics. The number allotted to each type interview-"Juni to wed Jim"-but it was not printed at the premises of "The Towns­ of car is changed from time to time in the ville Daily Bulletin"; it was printed at the light of the emerging claims experience university printery. As I said, that shows which is submitted to the Insurance Com­ how cowardly the people concerned are. missioner for his concurrence to any amendment. In the circumstances, the Mr. KNOX: Well, if indeed such a head­ category number allocation operates in an line appeared and any material that appeared in the newspaper-if in fact there is such equitable manner. The Safety Record a newspaper-was to the detriment of the Plan already takes into consideration older parties concerned (I am not too sure who cars by allowing premium discounts of 15 "Jim" and "Juni" are but I presume that per cent. for vehicles 6, 7, 8 and 9 years somebody knows), then, of course, the per­ old and of 33t per cent. for vehicle 10 years sons responsible are completely liable for or more old. Market values are determined any problems that they create for themselves. by reference to Guide Manuals produced They are not exempt from or above the law by those involved in the motor industry. in that respect. The statistics obtained by the Insurance Mr. SPEAKER: OTder! I hope that the Commissioner from individual insurers are Minister for Justice is not referring to me confidential." as this "Jim". 966 Questions Without Notice (23 APRIL 1975) Questions Without Notice

RIGHT OF RATEPAYERS TO APPROACH BRISBANE causing extensive damage? As the damage CITY COUNCIL THROUGH MEMBERS OF caused was such that the explosions would PARLIAMENT have seriously injured or possibly killed anyone in the cars at the time, and as the Mr. LAMONT: I draw the attention of explosion in one case blew away most of the Minister for Local Government and Main the dashboard and windscreen and caused Roads to a letter I have received from the extensive under-bonnet damage, can he take Brisbane Town Clerk (Mr. Thorley) in which immediate action to investigate the sale of he refers to matters I brought up on behalf this product, and can such a product be of ratepayers, and in which he says, amongst removed from the market-place until the other things- investigation is completed? "I have to advise that it is the policy of the Council to request members of par­ Mr. CAMPBELL: I have no knowledge liament to communicate, in the first of the circumstances. If they are as described instance, with the ward alderman for the by the hono:1rable member, I would regard area involved on matters concerning local them as being very serious and warranting government." immediate investigation. I assure the honour­ able member that I will initiate inquiries into The letter is signed by Mr. Thorley himself. the matter. I now ask the Minister: What right has the city council to refuse ratepayers the FITTING OF GoVERNORS TO MOTOR VEHICLE right to approach the council either directly ENGINES or through their member of Parliament if Mr. JENSEN: I ask the Minister for that is their wish? Can the Minister speak Transport: In view of the increasing death to the Lord Mayor about this matter as toll on our highways, has he seriously con­ the council's policy is clearly making rate­ sidered giving effect to the introduction of payers' problems a political football? governors on motor-cars, motor-bikes and trucks to restrict speeds to 60 miles an Mr. HINZE: I would feel that the city hour and so doing something constructive to council is not entitled to refuse to receive reduce the death toll? an approach from any ratepayer either directly or through his representative in State Mr. K. W. HOOPER: The matter of fitting Parliament. It would, however, be a matter governors to motor vehicles has been under for the council to determine the method by ~xamination for some considerable time. In which any such representations are to be this regard I give credit to the honourable handled by the council, its various committees member for Windsor, who on many occasions or its various departments. There is also, has raised this matter in the Chamber and I feel, no legal provision under which the with members of my committee. The Traffic city council can be compelled to reply to Advisory Committee, which is set up under any such representations, and the text of the Traffic Act, is studying this and other any reply would also be in the discretion of matters that are raised from time to time. the council. There is no indication that this can be done In these circumstances, if the council feels successfully. On the other hand, we believe disposed to say that it will not answer directly that we should look at every aspect that representations made by any person, includ­ is likely to assist in any way towards the ing duly elected representatives of this improvement of road safety. Assembly, I must say that in my opinion it is quite at liberty to do so. The question BEEF SALE TO RUSSIA of ethics involved in this approach is, how­ Mr. HARTWIG: I ask the Minister for ever, another matter, and I leave it to all Primary Industries: As it has been reliably honourable members, and to all citizens of reported that the Australian Labor Govern­ Brisbane, to judge whether the city council ment has made a loan of $3,000,000 to the should adopt the attitude referred to. Australian Meat Board to finance the sale As a practical approach, I would suggest of beef to Communist Russia, could he that any honourable member desiring to con­ inform the House what rates of interest are tact the council on behalf of one of his con­ to be charged for the loan and what will be stituents could well write direct to the Town the terms of repayment? Would he assure Clerk, and send a copy to the local ward beef producers of this State that through the alderman. If there are, in fact, ben~fits to Australian Agricultural Council he will be obtained from contacting the local ward endeavour to have that $3,000,000 loan con­ alderman, which I hope there would be, verted to a Federal grant to the Australian he could be made aware of any particular meat industry? problem in his ward in this way. Mr. SULLIVAN: There has been a certain amount of secrecy about the sale. I do not EXPLOSIONS OF TYRE-INFLATION AEROSOL think anybody knows the price for the meat CANS sold to Russia. The honourable member is Mr. KATTER: I ask the Minister for asking for details and, as I would like to Industrial Development, Labour Relations give factual information, I ask him to place and Consumer Affairs: Does he know that his question on notice for tomorrow. there have been a number of instances of Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The time allotted tyre-inflation aerosol cans exploding and for questions has now expired. Matters of Public Interest [23 APRIL 1975] Matters of Public Interest 967

PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS REGISTRA­ have been based over the last century on TION ACT AMENDMENT BILL the increasing use of phosphorus. It is absolutely disastrous that at a time when THIRD READING the livestock industries, particularly cattle­ Bill, on motion of Mr. Camm, read a raising and, to a lesser degree, wool-growing, third time. were on their knees, and inflation was raging and threatening to increase, the Prime LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT Minister should have taken the hasty decision AMENDMENT BILL over a year ago to foreshadow withdrawal of the bounty. THIRD READING If we cast our minds back to that time, Bill, on motion of Mr. Hinze, read a third Mr. Speaker, we will recall that that decision time. was based on advice from some of the myopic anti-rural academics who seem to NUNDAH LIBRARY VALIDATION BILL plague Canberra-they certainly have plag­ ued it since December 1972-and who THIRD READING seem to proliferate in the ivory tower and Bill, on motion of Mr. Hinze, read a third have so much influence in their dealings with time. the Prime Minister and senior Ministers of his Cabinet. HEN QUOTAS ACT AMENDMENT BILL The Prime Minister saw fit to give notice that he would withdraw the phosphate bounty THIRD READING at the end of the year. That notice caused Bill, on motion of Mr. Sullivan, read a great disruption throughout the country third time. because it generated an enormous demand for phosphate fertiliser. Now, after 31 December 1974, an indication has come from SWINE COMPENSATION FUND ACT Canberra that the Industries Assistance AMENDMENT BILL Commission is reconsidering the situation. THIRD READING What is happening now? No-one is using Bill, on motion of Mr. Sullivan, read a phosphate fertiliser. Certainly one cannot blame cattle and sheep producers for not third time. using it at the moment, with the prices they are receiving for their products. How­ DISCONTINUANCE OF PRINTING ever, it is a national question. It involves QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS IN not only the cattlemen, the wool-growers VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS or the wheat-growers; it involves all Aus­ tralians. The average annual expenditure Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Leader on the phosphate bounty of $60,000,000 of the House): It is not my intention to over the last few years was generating proceed with notice of motion No. 1 on upwards of $300,000,000 of additional rev­ the Business Paper. enue, which, in turn, was generating at least $100,000,000 in tax revenue. It was about MATTERS OF PUBLIC INTEREST the most self-sustaining expenditure from the Government's pocket. WITHDRAWAL OF PHOSPHATE BOUNTY BY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT At a time when it is necessary to strengthen, by whatever logical method is Mr. DOUMANY (Kurilpa) (12.8 p.m.): I available, the hand of livestock producers have a matter of national importance to who are plagued by inflation and drastically discuss, and I think it appropriate to do high prices, superphosphate is not available so today because this is the last opportunity at a reasonable price. I remind honourable members will have to deal with such matters members opposite, so that they may learn a in this session. It concerns the withdrawal little more about this subject, that in New of the phosphate bounty by the Federal Zealand, where a Labor Government is also Government on 31 December last, and the in power, some 12 months ago a decision was consequences and repercussions of that taken not only to reinstate the bounty on decision. phosphorus but also to restore it to a level I think it appropriate to say that, taken at which the price of superphosphate to at any time, the decision to withdraw the the farmer would be about $27 a tonne. An phosphate bounty, at whatever level it might undertaking was given also that if the cost apply, would be irrational and undesirable in of manufacture increased, the bounty would the context of Australian agriculture, the be increased. Australian economy and Australia's balance­ This is not a time for delay. I should of-payments situation. This is a nation in like the House to recognise that we should which nearly all the soils that are farmed all press the Federal Government to rein­ are low in phosphates-drastically low in state the phosphate bounty as soon as possible most places-and in which the major part on a higher level while the I.A.C. is con­ of agricultural development, the livestock ducting its deliberations. In my opinion, it industries and much of the wheat industry is a matter of national importance that this 968 Matters of Public Interest (23 APRIL 1975] Matters of Public Interest

be done, because on such action rests a The ruling price for chairs down here great deal of the future prosperity and was £ 1. The Bellevue Hotel bought plenty stability of the agricultural economy and, in of chairs from the then Speaker at £1 each. addition, the national economy. When the Bellevue Hotel was closed down and the furniture was put up for auction, DISPOSAL OF FURNITURE AND EQUIPMENT, our coalition Speaker received a telephone PARLIAMENT HOUSE call to the effect, "If you want to get back some of your chairs, come over to the Mr. FRAWLEY (Murrumba) (12.14 p.m.): auction and bid for them when the Bellevue The matter on which I intend speaking today furniture is being sold." Many chairs from will be of interest not only to the public this place had been sold by the A.L.P. but also to all new members of this Speaker in those days. There were plenty Assembly, and certainly to those members of other rorts ar;d rackets in those days. who came into the House after 1957. Mr. Wright interjected. Recently the honourable member for Rock­ hampton, by way of a series of questions, M[". FRAWLEY: Let me get on with this, attempted to denigrate the-- and we can take an inventory afterwards. Opposition Members interjected. A lot of equipment was booked down here. When l was in the Public Works Mr. FRAWLEY: I do not intend to heed Department I worked at Parliament House, interjections this time. What I have to say and I had the opportunity to see some of is pretty good, and no doubt honourable the things that went on. A great deal of members opposite will want to stop me. equipment that was booked out to Parliament The honourable member for Rockhampton House was taken to the homes of members. attempted to denigrate the Queensland Agent­ One of the greatest rackets was with petrol. General in London (Mr. Rae, the former Members used to fill their cars up at the Minister for Lands-a man whom we all Government Garage, but they never paid Is. remember very fondly as a gentleman and for that petrol. I can remember one member one who was a credit to the Government) who thieved a starter motor for a Ford V8 by referring to the purchase of some furniture car. He even asked me for a loan of my for use in the Agent-General's Office in tools. He went down to the Government London. The fact that the furniture had been Garage two days later and staggered back used by Mr. Rae in his room at Parliament with a torque tube and drive-shaft over his House for many years no doubt led the shoulder. I said, "Where did you get that?" honourable member to believe that he had He said, "Down at the Government Garage. uncovered a plot to sell valuable furniture I am going back again tomorrow to get cheaply; but the truth came out. The secretary a generatoL" of the Miscellaneous Workers' Union or Mr. Jensen: Did you report this? some other union-I forget which union it was-stated that he had spoken to a French­ Mr. FRAWLEY: If I had reported it when polisher who assured him that the table was the Labor Party was in charge down here, absolutely worthless. I would have been crucified. How the hell could anyone who was working down here Since the State was governed by a National­ at the time the Labor Party was in power Liberal Government since 1957 the people report anything? It was loaded with filthy have forgotten about some of the disgraceful rackets. things that went on here when the Labor Party was in office. I refer particularly to Opposition Members interjected. the years 1950 to 1957 when minor racketeer­ Mr. FRAWLEY: I will refer to a few ing was prevalent at Parliament House. more of them before my time runs out. Members will be familiar with some of A.L.P. members are trying to stop me telling the round cedar tables which grace this place. about these things. They are probably wondering why there are One day while I was working down here, not very many of them here. Between 1950 I went to repair a light in the bathroom and 1957 the ruling price for a Parliament on the ground floor. V/hen I went into the House cedar table was £20 and many were bathroom there was a fellow lying in the sent from this House to the homes of book­ bath with water up to his neck. I said, makers to pay off gambling debts. When "I'm sorry. I came in here to fix the light. I worked here as a maintenance electrician I'll come back later." He said, "Don't worry. in 1950 and 1951, I actually saw a cedar I'll be out of the bath in a few minutes." table being lowered from the veranda outside So I started to repair the light. In the the dining-room and taken across to the course of conversation with him I learned stables, where it was picked up by a truck. that he had just arrived at South Brisbane Being an inquisitive type I thought to myself, by train and was going to Townsville that "I had better find out what is going on night. On the way over, he said to the down here." Therefore I quizzed the truck taxi-driver, "Where can I get a brush and driver when he came to pick it up on the clean up? I don't want to go to a hotel. Friday afternoon. He told me the name of I just want to go somewhere for a clean-up the bookmaker to whose house he was in a hurry." He said to me, "The taxi-driver taking it. drove me here to this building." He told me Matters of Public Interest [23 APRIL 1975) Matters of Public Interest 969 that on the way over, the taxi-driver had before." I said, "Wait a minute, you're not said, "It will cost you two bob for the a visiting member of Parliament; you're a bath with a towel supplied, and 6d. for a 'cockatoo' from the two-up school, aren't shoeshine." you?" He answered, "Yes, and it's not bad He went on to say, "I thought that was to stay here." pretty good. I met a fellow in a suit, and Subsequently I learned that that particular he took me down a passageway and brought Minister and the then Speaker of this me here to the bathroom. He said, 'There's Parliament used to ascertain which Ministers' the shoeshine over there, and there's the bath, rooms would be vacant while the Ministers give me your 2s. 6d. When you go would were absent and then used to let each of you mind walking out through the tunnel, those rooms for !Os. a night. They used to and don't forget to tell your mates about take their mates into the dining room for this.'" breakfast under the pretence of their being This fellow then asked me, ''What is this visiting members of southern Parliaments. place? Is it some kind of club?" I replied, I will cite another example of what used "It is the Queensland House of Parliament." to go on. Just after the war when a lot of He said, "God Almighty! Those cane-cutters Italians were still interned in camps in the up North will never believe that I had a North, a certain Labor Minister used to bath down here." He asked, "Whose bath ascertain beforehand the date of release of is it?" I replied, "I've got a suspicion you're these internees. He would then go to the in the bath of the Leader of the Opposition." family of a man who was due for release I think that at that time the Leader of the and say to them, "I can get so-and-so out Opposition used it. of the camp in a couple of weeks' time, but As a further illustration of what went on­ it will cost you £500." They would hand over on one occasion when I was on duty in this the £500, and of course the internee would building as maintenance electrician while be released in due course. The Minister Parliament was sitting I felt a bit sick, and would split the proceeds with his counterpart the then Chairman of Committees, who was a in the South who gave him the information, pretty nice bloke in spite of the fact that he and the family of the intemee would think, was a member of the Labor Party, said to "What a mighty bloke he is. He got so-and­ me, "Go and lie down on my bed upstairs." so released from the camp for us, and it only As I recall, it was in the room next to that cost us £500. We will vote for him next occupied presently by the Chief Reporter. time." That is another racket that went on. I lay on his bed and just as I was going I feel that I should mention the very to sleep a Minister-I will not mention hfs serious land rackets that were engaged in by name; that would do no good at this stage­ a certain Labor politician. The other night walked in accompanied by another man certain Opposition members questioned the carrying a port. The Minister asked me, motives behind the introduction of the Land "What are you doing here?" I replied, "I feel Act and Another Act Amendment Bill. Let a bit sick and the Chairman of Committees them listen to this. I will quote briefly gave me permJSSJOn to lie down on his bed. certain extracts from the findings of a royal He's not using it." The Minister then said commission appointed to inquire into these to me, "Oh, you've got to get out. This is land rackets. These findings show that from a visiting member of Parliament, and he October 1950 till March 1951 the then wants to stay here for the night." I thought, Minister for Lands was guilty of delaying the "Fair enough. I don't mind," so I got up approval of a transfer from one group that and as I was about to walk out the door I had gone into liquidation to another. I am recognised this other person under the light purposely not mentioning names, but they as a "cockatoo" from a two-up school that appear here. The company was in liquidation used to operate on the banks of Enoggera and was stung £6,000, now $12,000, to carry Creek. on a property that, in effect, was held by Mr. Jensen: Did you play two-up then? another person. The rate was fixed at £300 a week for 20 weeks, and that sum rep­ Mr. FRAWLEY: No, I didn't. resented the working expenses of the lease­ Mr. Jensen: Well, if you didn't play two­ hold and of the stock depasturing !hereon. up, how did you know he was a "cockatoo"? The commission found that on 16 May Mr. FRAWLEY: The honourable member 1951 a rort was being worked in the Lands wouldn't know anything about it. Office, in which certain conditions of a lease I walked outside and hung around for a were drawn up for the benefit of a lessee. few minutes till the Minister went away. No mention is made of the sum involved Then I went back into the room and asked there. The commission also found that this fellow, "What are you doing here?'' earlier, on 14 December 1949, the then He replied, "It's a bit far to go home to Lands Minister solicited donations of £1,000, Gaythorne" or "Enoggera at this time of or $2,000, to Labor Party funds in return night, so I thought I would stay here. My for favourable consideration to the granting mates told me to come down to Parliament of a lease on a homestead. House, where I would get bed and break­ From time to time Opposition members fast for ten bob." He added, "This is pretty have tried to make something out of the good. My mates and I have stayed here small quantity of furniture that was sold 970 ]\/[afters of Public Interest [23 APRIL 1975] Matters of Public Interest

recently to a former Minister. I admit that of the premises. When building inspectors that was an unfortunate occurrence but the climbed into the ceiling they discovered 4 in. furniture certainly was not worth what it was drainage pipes running into 2 in. pipes. That alleged to be worth. is one reason why there have always been Mr. Jones interjected. maintenance problems. The electrical wiring is such that electricity costs many thousands Mr. FRA WLEY: As I have only half a of dollars a month, mainly because one minute left, I ask the honourable member switch controls five or six lights. To save to shut up and let me finish. When I am a little money in construction, five or six finished he can get into me again. lights were connected to one switch and, Mr. Jones: That is uncouth. when lights are turned on in a few rooms, the place is as bright as a Christmas tree Mr. FRAWLEY: I have to be uncouth in in a blackout. dealing with some Opposition members or they would not understand me. They have In the light of these obvious defects it is uttered some of the. most uncouth things amazing that the S.G.I.O. took delivery from ever said in this Parliament and the hon­ the constructors. I believe that the S.G.I.O. ourable member, the former dog-catcher from will be forced to carry out major repairs and Cairns, should be the first to acknowledge maintenance before a new lessee will take over. that. Indeed I am told that it has authorised them. It seems that the S.G.I.O. will be committed (Time expired.) to further expense even greater than th'e $800,000 that the Treasurer admitted was S.GJ.O. INVESTMENT IN CREST HOTEL owed in rent by the former lessee. Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the None of the contents of the building are Opposition) (12.26 p.m.): I have waited for owned by the S.G.I.O. or the original lessee. some time before referring to the S.G.I.O. I am told that ,everything (including knives investment in the Crest Hotel because I forks, bathroom towels, blankets and so on) thought that, as a new lease is to be granted is leased. I am also informed that the or new people are to take over the hotel, the liquidator arrived from Sydney in the last Treasurer would have reported to us on few days and told the S.G.I.O. that far from some of the problems there. getting its money back from the liquidation Opposition members are deeply concerned he will want to be paid some money. He and have been for some time about the even referred to a commitment up to secrecy surrounding the investment policies $1,000,000 on the basis that the value of of the State Government Insurance Office. material on lease by the liquidated company If the Treasurer believes, as he says, that should be repaid-or a portion of it. Far by concealing these figures he is protecting from receiving $800,000 owing in rent, the the S.G.I.O. against its business competitors, S.G.I.O. may have to pay out more money we support him; but, by the same token, to repair the building, which was not main­ we believe that the information should be tained or repaired by the lessee, and also available on a confidential basis to members have to pay additional money to the of this Parliament. In the light of reports liquidator. that have appeared in the Press, and material The original rent on the premises was that has been forwarded to me and other $9,380 a week. From mid-1972 the rental honourable members relative to this invest­ basis was changed to 5 per cent of food ment, we cannot accept the need for secrecy. and 27.5 per cent of house takings. A Information forwarded to me suggests weekly report on hotel turnover was sub­ that from the day it was built the multi­ mitted to the S.G.I.O. for checking. Every million-dollar investment involving the Crest week that was sent over to the S.G.I.O. to be International Hotel in Brisbane has been a checked. continuing parody of mismanagement so far Let me give the House some figures to as the Government is concerned. I am show how the hotel fared. Between July told that the hotel is a maintenance. man's 1973 and June 1974, for example, the lessees nightmare. The builder constructed the out­ bought food worth $250,000 and sold it side walls of the hotel in such a way that for $690,000. In that period the liquor v:ater pours through them. During cyclone purchased totalled $350,000 and was sold for "Wanda," 162 rooms were affected and $930,000. Wages for the period totalled damage to carpets alone amounted to $764,000. Expenditure of $1,365,000 against $40,000. Serious damage, which has nothing the total revenue of $2,466,000 resulted in to do with flooding, has occurred on a a gross operating profit of $1,101,000 for number of occasions. Water pours through the 12 months. For the following six months the walls, tiles peel off the bathroom walls the company's gross operating profit was and major breakdowns occur in the air­ $561,000. Therefore, the total profit was conditioning, one lasting for 10 days. For $1,600,000 in the 18 months prior to our three days this international hotel had no taking it back from them on 22 December; hot-water service. yet we are told that they owe us $800,000 When we think of S.G.I.O. manage­ in rent! I remind the House that weekly ment of this investment, we should reports were sent across to our investment first ask who carried out the final inspection board at the S.G.I.O. Matters of Public Interest [23 APRIL 1975] Matters of Public Interest 971

I speak of the S.G.l.O. possessively, as I am there is a case for laying the relevent infor­ a policyholder and a person who has always mation on the table or for the Premier or supported Government operations of this type. Deputy Premier to allow us to peruse. ~he Although reports were being sent across every documents privately and explain the posltl<;m week, after all that money passed through to us. Obviously people have made mis­ the hands of the company, we end up owing takes, but they cannot be simply covered $800,000 in rent! up with blind secrecy. The S.G.I.O. should not be allowed to keep the information On top of that we have the problem that what we believed-or the S.G.I.O. quiet-to keep it to itself. There is no believed-to be a top-class international reason why members of the Opposition should hotel is subject to a long-term agree­ not have a look at it. If things are as ment with the brewery that owned the bad as they seem to be from the papers land, and the only beer, wine or spirits that that have been presented to us, we ought can be purchased at that hotel are the brands to look at the people who are doing these carried by that brewery. I have not travelled jobs, because if they mismanage the funds the world as much as the Ministers who so that we do not get from them the sit on the front benches opposite, but I return that we should get, we are the losers. guarantee that the people who stay at inter­ The people of Queensland lose; the investors national-class hotels expect to be able to or shareholders or policyholders of the office buy almost any brand of wines and spirits. lose, and that is bad news for each and They cannot believe that our international every one of us. hotel measures up to that standard when It is no wonder that today members of they are restricted to drinking the "green the public are disenchanted with the insurance death". business as a whole. This morning the hon­ The original lease contained very stringent ourable member for Everton asked a question requirements on rental and the basis of about Capricorn Insurance Ltd. This Opposi­ assessment. For the benefit of anyone who tion, when challenged by the Treasurer, wants to peruse the lease, I have a copy informed the Insurance Commissioner of the with me. Under it the S.G.I.O. had wide operations of that company and asked for powers of investigation, including the right to put in an independent auditor nominated some checks. We got the very answer that by the Institute of Chartered Accountants. the Treasurer gave this morning: he did What steps were taken by the S.G.I.O. under not see any reason to be concerned about the lease provisions to protect the people's it. But it went broke. Many people lost interests and their money? I am told that, money, and each day more are becoming at the TV programme "Close Up", within increasingly concerned at what they feel is the hearing of the compere the former hotel mismanagement in the insurance scene. They manager was told by the S.G.I.O. director suspect that something is wrong with workers' of investments to watch what he said if compensation, storm and tempest insurance, he wanted to keep his job. Is it the policy flood-damage insurance and so on. of the Government and the S.G.I.O. to threaten staff in an attempt to prevent import­ We ought to be moving to a:lay that ant, disturbing information from becoming suspicion and to check up on thece thiJ?gs public knowledge? I could show honourable to make certain that the public are gettmg members Press cutting after Press cutting a fair deal and are not having misrepresenta­ setting out the facts on rental, how much is tions made to them. We in this House should owed and what sort of problems have been not use secrecy to hide deficiencies. No-one experienced with the hotel. It is not my expects every public servant to make the intention to damage the S.G.I.O.-as I said, correct decision every time. Obviously, people I insure with the company and I want to will make mistakes. The main point is see it succeed-but it is frightening if this that they should learn from those mistak~s example that we know of is typical of and so should we. If we cover them up, If S.G.I.O. investment. We have ascertained v. e hide them, nobody will learn from them. since the new management took over on behalf of the S.G.I.O. that some of the rent Since December last year when we took cheques that were paid lay in abeyance over this hotel, we have got no closer to three months before they were presented for knowing exactly what went wrong, why we payment. Creditors including the brewery took over a hotel that is a maintenance and the laundry are still waiting for pay­ ment from the old lessee. man's nightmare or how we could lose $800,000 in rent while the company made This is not the first investment problem $1,600,000 profit. I am told it sent :hat of the S.G.I.O. I am told it has major worries profit off to Sydney, deposited it stratght with its high-rise building in Townsville and iTito its bank, then transferred it into another that returns from some others are so low that the S.G.I.O. could have done better of its accounts, so we missed out. from Commonwealth Savings Bank interest. It is no wonder that we express concern We do not intend to persecute the S.G.I.O. about the S.G.I.O. and ask the Treasurer or hamper its investment policies, but we to at least table the material in Parliament believe that in an instance such as this and give us an opportunity to study it. 972 Matters of Public Interest [23 APRIL 1975] lvfatters of Public Interest

FLOODING OF PROPERTY, MILSOM STREET, Neighbours had other interesting stories to COORPAROO tell. Mr. LAMONT (South Brisbane) (12.36 The most interesting story came from the p.m.): It was particularly interesting to me Lord Mayor. He told "The Observer" that­ to listen to the concern of the Leader of "Potential buyers should check with the the Opposition about people getting a fair council to learn if their property was go, particularly those who have problems with flood-prone. flooding and the elements. "The information is readily available. I wish to speak about a man and his wife "The council recently spent $56,000 to who bought a property at 153 Milsom Street, relieve the flood situation in Milwm Street." Coorparoo. I preface my remarks by reading The article continues- from some statements made to a south-side newspaper. The statements were made by "But he made no illusion that the drain­ both the present owners of the property and age would completely eliminate flooding in the Lord 2\fayor. the street. The article reads- " 'The property is low-lying and subject to flooding in heavy rain', he said." "They are leaving Brisbane for good and are deserting their house ... That is a very interesting turnabout. "The house stinks. I have done a little research since the "They arrived in Brisbane from the first night on which l went to see the owner. United Kingdom in October. On that particular night, according to the "In November they invested their savings Bureau of i\Teteorology, there would be heavy of $5,000 as a Jeposit on a house in rain. These \)eople were gatherin::; their Miloom Street, Coorparoo. belongings and their children and were mov­ ing out to stay with friends or relatives. "They were happy and contented ... They were in fact fearful of remaining in "The future looked good for them and their house that night. And quite rightly so. their three children aged from 11 months to 11 years. It was interesting, on making a search, to find that this land as recently as 1962 "Their solicitor learned from the Bris­ was owned by none other than the Brisbane bane City Council (in writing) that their City Council. In December 1962 the council house was flood-free." sold the property to an individual buyer­ Then on 11 January this year rain fell a Brisbane family. According to neighbours quite heavily for about 45 minutes to an -and this has been borne out by the hour. testimony of several people living in the The article continues- street-it was insisted that the housing would "Water 3 feet deep flooded the house be low-level housing. in 15 minutes. Mr. Lee: They did that at Yeronga, too. "It came up through the toilet, up Mr. LAl"VIONT: I don't doubt it. These through the bath, through the floor-boards A.L.P. aldermen are a scandalous bunch of and swirled its way into all of the family's people. They insisted that there be low-level possessions. housing. One person in the block managed "There wasn't time to save much." to get his own way and built his house on The householder said to "The Observer"­ stumps, and he is the only one who can "! hold Clem Jones and his council laugh today when it rains. responsible . . . In spite of the fact that the council "He warns people to check if property owned the land and must have known that it they plan to buy is flood-prone before the was flood-prone, it sold blocks to people for purchase. housing purposes and required them to build "We did this, and the council said we low-level houses, even though many wanted would not have any problems. houses on stumps. "Since then Aid. J ones has changed his I referred to the Local Government Act, mind. He now suddenly says our property subsections 37(10) and (11), which reads- is flood-prone. "(10) Dwelling houses on low-lying land. "We bought on the council's direction, It shall not be lawful for any person upon content in the belief we were not buying land which is so situated as not, in the trouble." opinion of the Local Authority, to be cap­ able of being drained to erect any building These people tried to see the Lord Mayor to be used wholly or in part as a dwelling, but- or to adapt any building to be used wholly "He's always unavailable or not in. or in part as a dwelling. "The house now stinks. The wood has "(11) Storm water to be allowed its rotted and we can't stand the smell; it natural getaway. It shall not be lawful gets into everything. for a Local Authority to deal with any "The council also said the property was land under its control, or for any owner not a drainage problem area, but neighbours or occupier of any land to deal with the and our own experience prove otherwise." same in such manner that the free flow }vfatters of Public Interest [23 APRIL 1975] Matters of Public Interest 973

of storm water along any natural channel ,,,·as a flood-prone area. I quote from the through or across such highway or land letter signed by the Brisbane Town Clerk, is so impeded or interfered with as to Mr. Thorley- cause or be likely to cause any collection "There are no council drainage rights or pool of stagnant or offensive water or over the land nor has it been declared a liquid." drainage problem area." I submit that aJloy\'ing low-level houses to be That was the only statement made by the built in this area is a flagrant violation of Town Clerk in response to the question, "Is those laws. I have been advised by an it in a flood-prone area?" eminent barrister, who coincidentally sits in this House, that the contracts that were I suggest that it was plainly dishonest to obviously tainted v·ith illegality were per­ say that the land had no drainage problem. formed many years ago, and the ,,,ay could And this is what the council is doing to not be opened for the present owners to people v·ho want to check whether they are proceed under subsection 10. There is a buying trouble. possibl;; right of action against the local On 11 January, as I said, three feet of authority which appears to have acted in v. ater flooded into the house. It is totally breach of subsection 11. reprehensible for the Lord Mayor to stand I return to the history of this matter. up during the flood in January 1974 and, In December 1962, the council sold the land with the absolute expansiveness of which he to people for housing. It changed hands is quite capable, say, "Come to me. You in December 1965, and again in December are fools if you buy land without checking 1972. The people who bought it in Decem­ with my council to see if it is in a flood­ b~r 1972 were the last vendors. Thev sold prone area." in January of this year to the present holders. A curious story comes from the last vendor. Mr. Moon~: He said that in the Sunday I spoke to the lady last night, and she sald papers, too. that she had difficulty in :,elling. She had se ieral people waiting to buy the property Mr. LAMONT: He makes all kinds of throughout the period of time in which it promises. He says, "Come to me. Suffer was on the market, but on each occasion the people to come to me and I will look prospective purchasers went to the city coun­ after them. I am their Lord Mayor." When cil to ask if the land "as in a flood-prone they do so, he gives them in writing one area and they were told, "Yes." In fact, thing and he later tells a newspaper something the Brisbane Citv Council was telling people completely different, namely, that which his that the land had been flooded several times Town Clerk told other potential buyers. So since 1934. he tells people that there is no problem when in fact the Town Clerk has been advising If it had been flooded several times since other people that there is a problem. Then, 1934, the council must have knovm that it was in spite of all that, he refuses the people flood-prone when it sold the property in 1962 concerned compensation. to people in Brisbane. The council admitted One can imagine, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the that the land was flooded prior to December heartbreak of individuals who came from 1962 when it sold the property. The council another country-not Pommie whingers, not knew this on both the occasions when it the sort of people one sometimes hears Ocker sold the property and allowed low-level Australians trying to knock, but decent people houses to be built. Potential buyers were who had a deposit and were prepared to make therefore put off by the council's warning. something of their life in this country and make a contribution to Australia-who were The lady went to see the person in the sold down the river, or perhaps I should say council who was giving out this information. "down the drain," by the Lord Mayor of this She complained to an officer of the council city in a manner typical of the double-dealing that she was having difficulty selling the land that has constantly been experienced recently because the council was exaggerating the in matters of this type. flood problem in the area. She herself said that it had not flooded during rains in the I referred at question time today to a two years in which she had owned the prop­ letter in which I was advised by the Mr. erty. Thorley I mentioned a few minutes ago that I ought to turn to the local ward alderman In September the present owners, through if I wished to bring up problems concerning their solicitor, approached the Brisbane Chy the Brisbane City Council. There is little Council to find out whether or not the prop­ chance that I will be doing that in future, erty that they were buying would be flooded because I have absolutely no confidence that following heavy rains. After the potential I would get justice. Nor have the owners vendor had been to the council and com­ of the property that I have been speaking plained that she was having difficulty in about any confidence that they would get selling the property, the council apparently justice. changed its mind. Apparently it was not goin,. to tell the next prospective buyer that i"t (Time expired.) 974 Matters of Public Interest [23 APRIL 1975] J\llatters of Public Interest

Co7\JMONWEALTH TRANSPORT PoucrEs; might have been willing to turn their rail­ COOLANGATTA AIRPORT ways over to the Federal Government have discovered that there are strings attached Mr. Gnms (Aibert) (12.46 p.m.): In the and conditions that are not acceptable to deb:o:te on Matters of Public Interest today, them. I w1sh to speak of road, rail and air trans­ port and to bring to the notice of the House The latest Press report, which is dated the effect that statements by the Federal !3 April 1975, is headed "'Federal Rail Minister for Transport (Mr. Charlie Jones) Hope." The article says that it is hoped to are having on them. bring all railway lines under Federal control. At the outset, I make it clear that the However, the main matter about which I Federal Minister for Transport is not a wish to speak is the Coolangatta Airport. cousin of the honourable member for Cairns Although it is in the electorate of the hon­ (Mr. Ray Jones). If one compares the state­ ourable member for South Coast, it affects ments made by the two gentlemen, it becomes people throughout the Gold Coast area. It obvious that the honourable member for affects the three seats on the Gold Coast and Cairns is fairly honest. in the Albert Shire; it also affects the Tweed Shire Council. In fact, it affects ail the The last time I listened to the Federal people of Australia, because the Gold Coast Minister for Transport, I heard him out is the tourist capital of Australia. I do not forward his plan for the road pattern say that the present situation is completely throughout Queensland and for Common­ the fault of the Federal A.L.P. Government, wealth grants to the State. He told those because the take-over of the Coolangatta present what a wonderful thing he was doing airport was first proposed during the term of for Queensland and how much money the a former Liberal-Country Party Government. Federal Government "'as making available. However, that Government did not wish to That was at the conference of the Local nationalise railways, and it is a iNhale new Government Association held in Brisbane ball game now. this year. A quick calculation was made <1nd it was found that, taking escalation of It is imperative to focus the attention of costs into account, the amount was the House on the unsatisfactorv state of $12,000,000 less than that made available for affairs that exists in regard to - the Cool­ the road-building programme in the prec­ angatta Airport. The Fed~ral rv1inister for eding year. Transport has asked the Gold Coast City Council to take over the airport on a Since then, of course, the Main Roads basis that would cost the ratepayers many Department has had a great deal of trouble thousands of dollars a year, and perhaps relative to road categories. The Federal Gov­ millions of dollars over a period. Mr. ernment has put roads into 16 categories Jones insists that his department serves to instead of eight, and, as a result, the Gov­ administer the movement of aircraft only, ernment of this State has many problems to not the provision of aircraft facilities. At work out in its road-building programme. the same time Mr. Jones is making a bid As to rail transport, the present Federal to take over all the railway systems in Government, through its Minister for Trans­ Australia ar!d run them from Canberra port, wants to bring about a merger of as a national railway. What sort of a rail systems throughout Australia-in other contradiction in administration is that? words, to nationalise the railways. If one Indeed, what sort of a transport department goes through the newspaper headlines, one does l\fr. Jones administer? If he nationalises sees in 1972 "Labor plan for railway the railways he might just as well ask local merger", and in 1973 "States seek huge rail authorities to take over and run the stations, road boost". The article under the Iatte; saying, "We only handle the movement of headline says- trains, not the stations." What is the differ­ "Queensland: Wants to spend $75 mil­ ence between the relationship of a station lion over the next five years on its Brisbane to a train and the relationship of an airport transport system. Electrification of exist­ to an aeroplane? There is no basic differ­ ing lines to cost $50 million is the major ence, and the sooner that is realised the item." better. But there is a more serious side to this. If the Federal Government was fair dinkum Mr. Jones has forced council-ownership of would come forward with a straight-out it airports on many areas throughout Aust­ grant for that work and allow the State to ralia, particularly in Queensland. much to look after its own problems. the detriment of the local authorities con­ Again in 1973, under the headline "Gov­ cerned. Some of the take-overs have been ernment to merge railways", it is stated that accomplished with a little political blackmail, the Federal Government is likelv to take such as, "Take-over this or that facility or over the South Australian and Tasmanian we will close it down." Recently the hon­ Railways. A couple of days later that Was ourable member for Warrego said in the denied by those States, so it was on one Chamber- minute and off the next. It is obvious from "! cannot condemn too strongly the Fed­ the Press releases from time to time that eral Government's proposed plan to down­ people in South Australia and Tasmania who grade facilities at the Charlevi!le Airport, Matters of Public Interest [23 APRIL 1975] Matters of Public Interest 975

and to force local ownership onto the "We arrived at Brisbane at 4 a.m. and Murweh Shire Council. The Charleville then had difficulty getting a taxi." Airport was used as a major inland airfield during the last war. As an inland Those people claimed that the airport facili­ airport for emergencies or defence it ties on the Gold Coast-the leading tourist would have no equal. Only three months resort in Australia-were shocking. ago a Hercules bomber was forced to In 1974, while Labor was in power, a land at Charleville. During the Darwin newspaper headline proclaimed, "Canberra evacuation that airport was used in an backs out on Coast airport". And the Federal emergency. Had the runaways been short­ Labor Government is still backing out. It ened, as proposed under the Federal is saying to the Gold Coast City Council scheme, it would have been impossible to as well as to the Tweed and Albert Shire use the field on those occasions." Councils, "You build the airport and take it over." This simply cannot be allowed to The Coolangatta Airport affects the tourist happen. The Federal Government must face industry, which i~ worth millions of dollars up to its obligation to upgrade the facilities to Queensland and Australia. Of course, at the Coolangatta Airport so that the vast that money finishes up in the Federal tax numbers of tourists who fly to the Gold purse. It must not be forgotten that when Coast can enjoy first-class amenities and the Federal Government gives us money it facilities. Let the Federal Government be is giving our money back to us. It adopts fair dinkum in this matter. the attitude that it is doing the States a favour when it gives them a hand-out, say, under the R.E.D. scheme. It is only money RIGHTS OF ILLEGITIMATE CHILDREN UNDER that the States should be getting back. Mr. CoMMON LAW Jones should take a realistic view of the whole spectrum of transport. If he cannot Mr. DEAN (Sandgate) (12.56 p.m.): I rise operate air services and build airports, there today to mention to the House the need is no way in the world he can satisfactorily for the Parliament to pass legislation having run trains throughout the nation from Can­ as its objective the final equation of the legal berra. He is a member of the Federal position of the illegitimate child with that Government that sheds crocodile tears in of his legitimate brothers and sisters. There its so-called anxiety to help local authorit­ is now no reason why the law should not ies. If that Government is fair dinkum, do whatever lies within its power to see it should get its thinking into perspective. that illegitimate children themselves do not suffer from a situation that certainly is not A question was asked this morning about of their making. the R.E.D. scheme. Men have to be dis­ missed before they can be re-employed. This has not always been the general When men are dismissed from certain pro­ attitude. The common law approach was jects they are not necessarily re-employed a very harsh one. It did not recognise any immediately, and as a result we lose their ascendant or collateral relationships between expertise because they go down to the end the illegitimate and any other person. He was of the line. When those men lose their described as the child of no-one. He had jobs, we lose their expertise, so there are no rights against either parent and they two losses. That is the way the Federal had no rights or obligations in respect of Government administers things from day to him. day. I call on Mr. J ones to take a realistic Today it is hard to see what this old view of the whole spectrum of airports and attitude could be expected to achieve. A transport in general. refusal to do anything about a problem does The proposed take-over of the Coolangatta not cause it to go away. The old law of Airport by the Gold Coast City Council giving parents no responsibility meant that goes back to 1966 when the previous the parents had no obligations. The law has Federal Government was in power. I draw persisted for a very long time. attention to the various newspaper headlines I will quote from an early attempt to since then. In 1968 one article was headed alleviate the plight of at least one group "Coolangatta to have $500,000 air complex." of illegitimate children, namely, those born Again that was in the days of the previous to parents who afterwards marry. In Chapter Federal Government. In 1969 another head­ 9 of the Statute of l\Ierton, passed between line read, "Call for major new airport at 1235 and 1236, we find the following:- the Coast." A 1970 headline read "Airport "And all the bishops instanted the lords plan scrapped." That was because the that they would consent that all such as matter could not be worked out with the were born afore matrimony should be neighbouring shire. A 1973 newspaper legitimate as well as they that be born article headed, "11 p.m. curfew at airport within matrimony as to the succession of disrupts 200" states- inheritance for so much as the church "The facilities at Coolangatta were accepteth such for legitimate. And all the indescribable. earls and barons with one voice answered "Two hundred people were put on that they would not change the laws of buses-some good, some not so good­ the realm which hitherto have been used for Brisbane. and approved." 976 National Parks and [23 APRIL 1975] Wildlife Bill

Now, some 700 years later, ask the The primary objective is the appointment Minister for Justice to give thought to of a director. The National Parks and changing the law finally to equate the position Wildlife Service has been already created of the illegitimate child with that of his by the Governor in Council under the Public brothers and sisters. Service Act and the position of director has been validly advertised in pursuance of such In the last century atticudes did begin to Act. I have noted the views of honourable change, and Queensland has shown it is members on the salary classification adver­ quicker than most other countries to remedy tised. There is no doubt that many honour­ the defects in this law in accordance with able members consider that the proposed changes in public opinion. Certainly, today, salary may not attract the most suitable type the child whose parents marry after he is of director. I can say that when the new born becomes legitimate as from birth or administration is well in hand and the work­ the date of marriage-that is, he is retrospec­ load properly assessed, action will b~ ta~en tively legitimate from the date of the marriage to fix a more appropriate salary class1ficatwn of his parents. This change is brought about if it is considered necessary to do so. by provisions in the Commonwealth Marriage Act of 1961. In addition, the illegitimate l agree that the Director will. be loaded relationship is recognised under the Common with heavy responsibilities and h1s . foremost Law Practice Act in Queensland and the task, after a settling-in period, will be to Testators Family Maintenance Act of Queens­ prepare a completely new legal code cover­ land. But there is one major area in which ing national parks, environmental parks and our law does not, as a general rule, partake wildlife. There will be no change m the law --in a bequest in a will which describes relating to these functions as a result of the beneficiaries in general terms as the this Bill. children or issue of the testator. The child However, the new code will repeal the can of course benefit under the mother's will, present relevant provisions of the Fores!ry bnt that is not to the point. The putative Act in respect of national parks and manne father need not, when he makes a will, park areas, the relevant provisions of the mention his illegitimate child. Land Act relating to environmental parks and the whole of the Fauna Conservation There will be some people who suggest Act and the Native Plants Protection Act. that the solidarity of the family and the concept of a stable family relationship could In due course, therefore, after thorough be undermined by giving the illegitimate child scrutiny and examination of the old pro­ the rights he now lacks. I find it hard to visions, a composite Act will be ~ubm1tted see why giving the right of inheritance from to Parliameat retaining, amendmg and the father should do this if the rights of improving the best that is in the . c:ld af!d inheritance from the mother have not already inserting fresh and pertinent provisiOns m done so. In any event, such an objection the new statute. Due regard will be given seems to rest on a pessimistic view of the to all sections of the community and envir­ institution of marriage, which surely should onmental issues as they affect land use and not have to rely on injustice for its preserva­ wildlife. tion. Conflict between genuine conservationists I appeal to the Minister for Justice to give and affected industries will always be pre­ urgent consideration to the introduction of sent and the director appointed will be legislation that displays a much more required to recommend to the Gove~nment Christianlike attitude towards the illegitimate the appropriate action to be taken m any children in our community. given case, without fear or favour. [Sitting suspended from I to 2.15 p.m.] I have been impressed with the variol!s suggestions of honourable memb~rs m relation to the operations of the servr~e and NATIONAL PARKS AND WILDLIFE will most certainly bring to the attentiOn of BILL the appointed director those suggestions con­ cerning the preservation of ocean frontages, SECOND READING accent on conservation by education, and Hon. K. B. TOMKINS (Roma-Minister regional conservation groups. for Lands, Forestry, National Parks and Certainly the Government will give _con­ Wildlife Service) (2.16 p.m.): I move- sideration to the formation of an advrsory "That the Bill be now read a second council comprising community membership time." so that persons and organisations will be involved in preservation and conservation Let me say, first of all, that I am gratified policies. at the favourable response of all members to the objectives of the Bill. In view of the I have been impressed with the skilled need to properly satisfy the present-day professional and clerical staff presently oper­ concern of the people towards the conser­ ating and being transferred to this new ser­ vation and preservation of natural surround­ vice and I am sure they will direct all of ings, the desirability of this Government pro­ their dedication and energies towards the posal is self-evident. success of this new venture. Nationai Parks and [23 APRIL 1975] Wildlife Bill 977

I personally am not taking lightly the been introduced. If the Minister can assist addition of this responsibility to my port­ me on that, I would appreciate an answer folio and I will do my utmost to ensure on it. that the service will fulfil its objective of implementing, in the interests of all Queens­ I would like to refer also to a problem landers, the national park and wildlife policies that I see creeping in for the Police Force. of the Government. Every time we read a Bill with provision for the appointment of protection officers and I commend the Bill to the House. honorary protectors, we read that policemen are required to undertake these additional Mrr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the jobs. I see that as an additional work-load Opposition) 1,2.19 p.m.): I thank the Minister to be carried by police. Finally, the prob­ for making a\ ailable to the Opposition in lems of law and order and road safety almost advance a copy of his second-reading speech. have to take second place because so much We appreciate that. We also applaud the of a policeman's time is used on matters for statement, in the last few words of his which he is neither trained nor even speech, that he intends to tackle this addition originally appointed to deal with. to his portfolio in a responsible way. This is one of the most important parts of his In essence, it is about time we questioned portfolio. It makes provision for the future the wisdom of making policemen the wood­ of people in this State. It will set aside and-water Joeys for a number of . th.ese areas that the kiddies of today and their Acts important though they are. A srmllar children will be able to use. provision to this was included in the Hen Althocigh \he Minister accepts that we Quotas Act, and many other Acts providl'l should have another look at the work-load for police to undertake what might pro­ and salary of the director, I point out that perly be called extraneous duties. . It is the deputy director in Victoria will receive time the Government carefully consrdered more than our director. One of the prob­ this matter because these extra duties lems we will probably face is that, because impose an undue burden on policemen, who of the lower salary, we will not receive are needed for other vital duties more in :..~pplications from the calibre of people we keeping with their training and functioning. desire. That is a pity, because I do not Finally, I refer to the disposal of money think that any person dedicated to this held in the Environmental Park Fund. I cause shonlJ be required to accept a low was here in 1973 when the Government salary, or even perhaps suffer a reduction in introduced the amendment establishing that salary, in order to help us to set up a fund. The Environmental Park Fund was National Parks and Wildlife Service. to be established and maintained by the I wish to refer to a couple of points in Treasury under that name-the "Envir?n­ ihe Bill mentioned by the Minister in his mental Park Fund". It was to rece1ve s~cond-r.:ading speech. He said- moneys paid to the Crown as rent under a lease for land within an environmental park. "the new code will repeal the present The provision was long and _detailed. . In relevant provisions of the Forestry Act fact, I think that the subsectiOn contamed in respect of national parks and marine about six paragraphs. park areas, the relevant provisions of the Land Act relating to environmental parks Today we discover that the fund is to and the whole of the Fauna Conserva­ be closed and the money transferred into tion Act and the Native Plants' Protection Consolidated Revenue. The park fund shall Act." thereupon be discontinued. It seems passing strange that, within 18 months or two years In due course, after a thorough investiga­ of setting up the fund, we see fit to close tion, he will implement a new Act. it. I believe that we ought to be setting In the meantime, for the next four to money aside-specifically the sums drawn six months none of those Acts will be in out of those areas-for re-use in the parks force. What will happen to fauna con­ areas from which the money has come. servation, particularly in aviculture (in which That is the major complaint that people we have had a number of arguments with have in many spheres of activity. Money people about birds) if all that legislation is taken from motorists is not spent on roads, repealed and we do not have any law to and so on. People who use national parks protect our fauna? and are involved with them should con­ tribute to their upkeep. I have always If that legislation is repealed now and supported the idea of the _Env!ronmen~al nothing is done until after the next session Park Fund. It will be a prty 1f we dis­ commences in August-it may not be untii continue it and do not substitute any special the last week of November that the Bill is fund into which moneys can be set aside introduced-aren't we going to have a time­ for maintenance of parks. I ask the Minis­ Jag during which we wiil not be able to ter for an explanation of the closure of control those people who traffic illegally in that fund. birds or misuse our national parks? It is mainly to thwart people like that that the Mr. Pm.YELL (Isis) (2.19 p.m.): The whole national parks and fauna conservation person selected to fill the position created legislation and similar measures have by the Bill will need the patience of Job 978 National Parks and [23 APRIL 1975] Wildlife Bill

and the wisdom of Solomon. He will be that there is no parkland easily accessible to the buffer between the conservationists on the people-and it is important that it be the one hand and, on the other, those easily accessible to the people-nothing will people who would like to remove com­ be left for our children or our children's pletely our natural environment. children to see. The environment we inherited took millions of years to evolve. I suggest that today we have a change in 1f it is mined, it cannot be replaced in a the electorate. No longer is the electorate couple of years. Anybody with the least as old as it was; nor is it hell-bent on chasing the almighty dollar. Today, people amount of common sense knows that. realise that they have a certain amount of The director and his officers will need a leisure-time and want to spend it in the best great deal of wisdom, and the department possible way. The Government should be will need the best available advice. I there­ congratulated on bringing this measure for­ fore think that the salary range of the ward for we will now have, in one depart­ director must be higher than is now proposed. ment, all the avenues for conservation in ft is essential to obtain the man best qualified this State. for the job. He need not necessarily have extensive academic qualifications. The per­ I suggest that this will also make it much son required is one who is greatly skilled in more difficult for those who wish to mine land usuge and the practicalities of con­ or use any part of our lands in any other servation. way. Now they will have to go directly to one department and obtain an answer from As all honourable members know, there one director. This ic; a very real advantage. are a number of areas in my electorate that It is a step in the right direction. will be of concern to this department. I refer to Fraser Island and areas at the back The person selected to fill the position of of \Voodgate and south of the Bm-rum River director should be skilled in land use. Surely that are designated as parks. The depart­ it is important that we use our lands and ment will have to give close consideration to not let them lie idle. It is important that land usage on Fraser Island, in particular, we use our lands according to how people because it is an area of very deiicate want them used. So the director will have ecological balance. to be skilled in land use. He will have to be able to weigh up in his own mind the With those few words, I congratulate the pros and cons and then advise Parliament on Government on bringing down

the council-I forget which one it was-for I conclude by saying that I believe the a large sum of money. He was success­ Bill is a step in the right direction. ful, and the local authority had to pay him. I should like the Minister to give me Mr. DEAN (Sandgate) (2.37 p.m.): After wme information on this situation. If local perusing the Bill, I am convinced that the authorities are to retain jurisdiction over remarks I made at the introductory stage were parks, they will be very reluctant to spend apposite. However, because they are import­ much money on them. In fact, they would ant, I think it is incumbent upon me to shy a'>'·

I hope that the new director will give I do not contend that an area containing consideration to all areas throughout the flora and fauna or some unique natural State, particularly the near-city areas. In my attraction should not be developed. If it introductory speech I cited the Botanic is believed that development of such an area Gardens. I refer now particularly to the is necessary, we mus( search for alternative great lagoon system in the Sandgate area. similar areas that can be preserved. It is Over the years we put up a hard fight to ludicrous to suggest that we should conserve preserve that area. Unfortunately we did merely for the sake of conservation without lose one section. If there had been an officer paying due regard to development and pro­ such as the director who is now to be gress. 1t is equally ridiculous to claim that appointed, with the necessary powers and we should progress and develop and pay only staff, possibly that desecration would not scant regard to conservation. Sound reasons have occurred, and we would not have lost must be advanced by both sides, that is, that wonderful area in Sandgate known as from the conservation side and also from the the First Lagoon. Experts have informed development side. It is in this area that me that that system is not just a few water­ the role of .the director will be an important holes but one that stretches from Sandgate one. right to Bribie Island. Of course, some Like other honourable members, I agree people have unkindly referred to those areas that the director will need to be a man pos­ as billabongs. sessing wide experience and sound common lV!r. Jensen: Duck ponds. s,ense. The Minister has said that after a Mr. DEAN: Or duck ponds. So far we thorough scrutiny and examination of the old have been able to save the major part of provision is carried out a composite Bill that system of lagoons by making a strong will be submitted to Parliament to retain, appeal to the council and those who have improve and amend the best of the old pro­ tried to use the area for other purposes. visions and also to insert fresh and pertinent l look forward to the appointment of provisions in the new statutes. This is to tbc Director of National Parks and Wildlife. be expected. As the needs of the community We talk about women's liberation, so whv change, so must our attitude towards con­ should a woman not be appointed? We pay servation change. Over the years we have a lot of lip-service to the liberation of seen wider interest taken in conservation. women, but in the filling of such positions No doubt this is due to the rapid rate of women are usually completely overlooked. development of certain areas. If a woman has the necessary qualifications It is only right that people should voice is a good Queenslander and understands th~ their opinions on this matter, but it is tropical environment of the State, why should unfortunate that certain conservation and she not be appointed? I look forward to development issues have been clouded. Many meeting the new director and welcoming all-embracing and supposedly authoritive him to his position. pronouncements have been made by people Mr. NEAL (Balonne) (2.43 p.m.): I should possessing either scant knowledge or no exper­ like to support the introduction of the Bill. ience whatever. The old adage, "A little I did not get an opportunity to speak at knowledge is dangerous" is quite appropriate the introductory stage. here. We must not forget that experience is the best teacher. As pointed out by the Minister, for the best administration of the State's fauna and The Minister said also that due regard will flora, national parks, etc. it has become be paid to all sections of the community necessary that they all be brought in under on environmental icsues, as they affect land th~ one authority.. The Bill will do away use and wildlife. This is a c01nmon-sense With the fragmentatiOn of the authoritv that approach and one that naturally will be adopted by a director possessing wide experi­ exists at present. J ence and common sense. As a Government we are responsible for the conservation of the State's natural A maHer that will come under the resources. It is not right that the State director's control is the harvesting of should be denuded of its natural assets. kangaroos. This is a very emotional issue, \Vhile we are conscious of the need for and one that has been raised previously by conservation, we must not allow our thoughts me in this Chamber. Until I was about to be clouded on the issue. We must not nine or 10 years of age I did not know become so rigid in our outlook that we what a kangaroo look,ed like. Although deny development. By our actions we must there were a large number of wallabies in not deny people the right to employment our area, ,there was not one kangaroo. and progress. At the same time, we should Today, however, as a result of the develop­ not allow our actions or outlook to be too ment 'that has occurred, it has thousands of rigid on the issues of progress and develop­ kangaroos. ment, at the expense of conservation. At all The reason for this influx is that man times the things we wish to conserve must has created conditions ideally suited to an be considered in relation to the need for increase in kangaroo numbers. The natural the development of the resources for the water-holes in my area were few and far good of the people. between and, furthermore, the country was National Parks and [23 APRIL 1975] Wildlife Bill 981 covered with scrub. Grass that is suitable Registered professional shooters are desir­ as fodder for kangaroos grew only in good able on properties. Property owners allow seasons. During drought kangaroos as well them on their properties knowing that they as many other animals .that require water will do the right thing. Amateur shooters daily were forced to congregate near per­ cause a lot of trouble by leaving gates open manent water-holes Many died from starva­ and allowing the stock to become boxed up tion, of course, as a result of the overstock­ and so on. ing of areas around these water-holes. I have no fear that kangaroos will be The natural habitat of the kangaroo and shot out. Our present legislation concerning other animals was determined by the dis­ registration of shooters and chiller-boxes is tance they could travel in search of food quite adequate to cover the situation. In while remaining within easy reach of their addition, kangaroos can find refuge in inacces­ daily water supply. There were no fences sible country away from the shooters. Plenty and their natural boundaries were determined by the distance they could travel from water. of them do just that. As water-holes dry up many animals die. It is often said that people drive from In the scrub country, during times of drought Brisbane to Charleville, Longreach or I have had to dispose of kangaroos that Cunnamulla without seeing a kangaroo. By were too weak to hop through lack of feed. the same token, I might ask how many In years past kangaroos had to contend with sheep these people see on the road, and the~e the forces of nature. Today the land has are millions of sheep in that country m been improved and permanent water-holes paddocks skirting the road. Kangaroos do in many places are about a half mile to a not come out onto the road to wave at mile apart. Country has been cleared and tourists from Brisbane. During the daytime, improved pastures have been grown. Con­ when most people drive, kangaroos are ditions for the survival of kangaroos are usually lying under the trees. They are seen much better than ever before. on the roads mainly when a shower occurs In the long term, the continued curtail­ after a dry spell, and water from the bitumen ment of harvesting kangaroos imposed by road runs into the drains and encourages the Federal Government through its refusal green pickings. At that time they come to to reinstate export permits will not do very the area in droves. much for them. When kangaroos increase I now wish to refer to the presence of to pest proportions, they have to be con­ vermin in our national parks and flora and trolled. Irrespective of what may be said fauna reserves. Round our countryside we to the contrary, landholders will certainly take the control of 'roos into their own see quite a number of small reserves. In hands. In the past, in bad times I have mv elec1orate I have the Southwood National seen kangaroo drives when they reached pest P~rk and several smaller flora and fauna proportions. There is wholesale shooting of reserves. I ask the Minister to ensure th~t the 'roos and those that are only maimed attention is paid to the presence of vermm stagger off into the scrub to die. It is in those areas. Tins is certainly a problem. certainly more desirable to have controlled The Southwood National Park comprises harvesting by professional shooters than to an area of some 17,000 acres-I do not have kangaroo drives which, I am sure, will know what it is in hectares; I have never be undertaken unless controlled harvesting is allowed. worked it out-and it is absolutely full of scrub pigs, which constitute a tremendous An Honourabie Member: If it is against menace to the Jandholders in that area. the law, it should not happen. Council reserves, which have been desig­ Mr. NEAL: I agree, but if the honour­ nated as flora and fauna reserves, harbour able member is suggesting to me that for many varieties of vermin, which are respon­ that reason someone in the back blocks will sible for a tremendous amount of damage not take part in them, I cannot agree. to crops, lambs and lambing ewes. ~reas set Amateur shooters, without permits, still go aside for flora and fauna protection also out into the country in droves over long harbour vermin and I would like to see an week-ends. They are supposed to have per­ indication that permission will be granted mission to shoot on properties, but only or provision made for the eradication of on Sunday morning two young fellows arrived vermin from national parks and reserves. on my place. They told me that they bad been sent by another person who suggested I do not think I have anything more to that I would give them permission to shoot add. on my property. In fact, he did not send them. I certainly did not give them permis­ Mr. Aikens: Hear, hear! sion. I sent them packing. Mr. NEAL: The honourable member for Mr. Lester: They shoot at everything on Townsville South agrees with me. He must sight. have an aeroplane to catch. l\tr. NEAL: They certainly do. I support the Bill. 982 National Parks and [23 APRIL 1975] Wildlife Bill

Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (2.57 p.m.): director appointed by the Minister has enough wish to make a few submissions on this stomach and savoir faire to stand up to these Bill, which is a simple one making provision departments, it will be a case of Satan for- reproving sin. Nevertheless I wish him success. "the appointment of a Director of He will have to stand up to the Common­ Nationai Parks and Wildlife and his powers, wealth as well. The Liberal-Country Party authori!;,~s, functions and duties and for Government has a very sad and sorry reco~d matters incidental thereto." in conservation. One of my first speeches m I agree with the submissions made by other this Chamber concerned the defilers of nat­ Opposition members who strongly expressed ional parks and marine parks. What hap­ the hope that this appointment will not stink pened in the time of Menzies? I wa~ very of political patronage. We do not want to pleased that through my protestations m thts see appointed a political hack \.'ho will Chamber I was able to stop the odious merely carry out the Minister's requests. practice of the Navy and the A_ir Force using some of our Great Earner Reef l\Ir. Aikens: The Whitlam Government islands, such as the Bunker Group and the isn't making this appointment. Capricorn Group, for bombing practice. Years later the members of this coalition came into !Vi:!" . .HA~SON: In reply to the honourable member for Townsville South, who is a the Chamber talking and slobbering about political blood brother of the coalition parties, the preservation of the reef! What a shock­ I might say that the past record of the ing performance! I sincerely hope that the coalition with similar appointments is very director will have the stomach to stand up suspect. Only a few years ago this coalition and fi<>ht for his department and the charter elected as a member of an electoral redistribu­ that h~ will be given under this Bill. tion committee-- I am fully in accord with what has been said by my colleagues. It is imperative that rvir. SPEAKER: Order! I ask the honour­ political patronage does not enter into the able member to return to the principles of appointment of the director. Years ago wh_en the Bill. the Deputy Premier and Treasurer was Mm· IV1r. HANSON: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I am ister for Railways, he removed one member just tying up the appointment of a Director of the Railway Appeal Board because tbe of National Parks and Wildlife with that railway employees were getting a good g? person, who ended up as a member of the and he replaced him with a stooge of his Land Corrt for services rendered. own because he was in the bag for the Minister. The Deputy Premier and Treas­ Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The honourable urer should hang his head in shame. member ', ,'iJl return to the Bill. Like my leader, I believe that the Police Mr. HANSON: Mr. Speaker, these matters Force could be lumbered with work not certainly are of grave concern. appropriate to their function. How ma~y Government members constantly complam As to the matter of political patronage on about not being able to get the services of this appointment, I thought for a time that the Police Force to deal with vital and urgent an ideal appointee, as he will be here for police matters? According to the ~inister, only a short while, would be the honourable under this Bill they will be loaded With extra member for Albert, because I heard that duties. This deserves the attention of the he is very concerned with conservation and House and I hope the Minister will take wildlife matters. However, I was greatly notice of it and proceed carefully. shocked when I witnessed the eyesore of a Political patronage can also enter into the car-wrecking yard on the way to Southport. appointment of the advisory council. The I immediately disqualified him from con­ Government may say, "We won't appoint sideration. It is a pity that the Minister for that man. Even though he has high quali­ Local Government did not do something fications and has a sincere regard for the about that eyesore-that anti-conservation wildlife and national parks in Queensland, spectacle-to be found on the Gold Coast. he is suspect. He voted for the Labor Party I sincerely hope that the man eventually at the last election." There is no risk that appointed as director will have some stomach this happens, and I admit that we. might and stand up to Government departments have done just a tiny little bit of. 1t, to<;>. that are not without sin in this field. Of But this Government does a lot of It. It IS course, we must pay heed to what has shocking. I could relate instance after happened in our country over a long period. instance but they would not relate directly to M any years ago this beautiful State of the Bill. Queensland had great stands of softwood The Bill is simple, but I urge the Minister timbers throughout the length and breadth to consider my comments and to ensure that of its eastern coastline. Those stands were the appointee will be a man of common destroyed, not so much by the early settlers sense with expertise and a sincere regar~ and those who built up their farms and for national parks and wildlife in this established the dairying industry and other country. I have said that he must also pastoral pursuits as by Government agencies have the stomach to stand up against those such as the Main Roads Department, elec­ who cause trouble, and I have named cer­ tricity undertakings and the P.M.G. If the tain Government departments. National Parks, &c., Bill [23 APRIL 1975] City of Brisbane, &c., Bill 983

Mr. GIBBS (Albert) (3.4 p.m.): I support grog to others who then go out and smash the Bill. This is a legislative step forward. motor-cars, our problems would be halved. I congratulate the last Parliament on bring­ I hope that the director will help to resolve ing forward a report on the long-range plan this problem. covering all the wetlands and coastal areas I support the Bill. If the honourable mem­ from Jumpinpin to the Nerang River Bridge. ber for Port Curtis ever needs any assistance, It is a wonderful document and is well worth I shall be happy to help him along with anybody's time to read it. No doubt it will conservation in his own back yard. be administered by the new director, which makes it very important to the area I Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Leader represent. The report covers the entire of the House): I move- coastline of my electorate, including the "That the question be now put." wetlands, islands and part of Stradbroke Motion agreed to. Island. Therefore I commend the Bill. Motion (Mr. Tomkins) agreed to. I should like to reply to a couple of matters raised by the honourable member CoMMITTEE for Sandgate. He said that the Gold Coast had some good development, and some (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. bad development. I think the provisions Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the chair) of the Bill are just what are needed to Clauses 1 to 11, both inclusive, as read, retain control over the situation in that area. agreed to. The honourable member for Port Curtis Bill reported, without amendment. referred to the wrecking yard conducted by my sons on the Gold Coast. I personally THIRD READING do not run that part of the business. How­ Bill, on motion of Mr. Tomkins, by ever, I should like honourable members to leave, read a third time. consider what would happen in an area if it did not have such a place for the accumu­ lation of wrecked vehicles. I want to put CITY OF BRISBANE TOWN PLANNING some facts on the line. The honourable ACT AMENDMENT BILL member for Port Curtis runs a hotel, and SECOND READING the honourable member for Bundaberg says that he drives better when he has grog in Hon. R. J. HINZE (South Coast-Minister him. When there are people who drive in for Local Government and Main Roads) that condition, and others who sell grog to (3.11 p.m.): I move- them, where else would the cars that are "That the Bill be now read a second smashed be stored? I know that the hon­ time." ourable member for Sandgate will appreciate this point, because, like me, he is a teetotaller. I am appreciative of the fact that honourable members have accepted this Bill for what The motor-car plays a very important part it is-a genuine endeavour to simplify pro­ in our daily lives. Each year thousands cedures in relation to the rezoning of land of motor-cars are sold and just as many are in the city of Brisbane and to provide taken off the roads. The discarded vehicles relief from time-consuming and costly adver­ then have to be processed, and I say that tising procedures associated with a large the Go•,ernment should take a more realistic majority of applications for subdivision of view of their disposal. I suggest that a land processed by the Brisbane City Council. proposition be put to the Federal Govern­ ment that a certain amount be paid on I refer to applications submitted to the every car sold, this money to be used to council where the proposal is to s•Jbdivide solve the problems that its disposal will land into no more than five lots. As I stated ultimately present. It will become a national in my introductory speech, on the figures problem, and no doubt to some extent it available to me subdivisions of this nature will come within the responsibilities of constitute approximately 84 per cent of all the new director. subdivisions placed before the Brisbane City We are processing and recycling steel. Council. We have, in fact, spent $50,000 on equipment I have noted the points raised by the for just that purpose. But the position is Leader of the Opposition concerning the different in western areas. There are two advertising of applications for the rezoning large yards back to back at Dalby. There of land and will bear them ia mind for are thousands of tons of steel there, and consideration when future amendments are those who operate the yards cannot get being made to the Act. It is noted. however, rid of it because it is too far from the coast. that the honourable member could offer no One day a subsidy will have to be paid by concrete alternatives to the existing arrange­ the Federal Government, irrespective of its ments. political colour, to help dispose of this steel. The advertising of applications in local We, in our turn, are playing a large part newspapers, as was suggested, could have in conservation and the cleaning up of cities. some advantage in densely populated areas If we did not have people like the hon­ where these papers are freely circulated. ourable member for Port Curtis selling There are difficulties, however, in the more 984 City of Brisbane, &c., Bill [23 APRIL 1975] Margarine Act, &c., Bill sparsely settled areas where local newspapers be registered. It would be a very simple may not be so readily available. It is in matter to do that, and undoubtedly it will these types of areas that a lot of important be done at an appropriate time. development might be occurring from time Motion (Mr. Hinze) agreed to. to time. I accept also that there might be some COMMITTEE merit in extending the principle of advising (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. adjoining owners of rezoning proposals, but Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the chair) the difficulty is where to draw the line. There are so many different sets of circum­ Clauses 1 to 5, both inclusive, as read, stances which could occur requiring vastly agreed to. differing procedures that it is almost impos­ Bill reported, without amendment. sible to lay down guide-lines which would adequately meet all cases. Having regard to THIRD READING all the circumstances, it is considered that Bill, on motion of Mr. Hinze, by leave, the procedures which will be operative after read a third time. the law is amended as proposed offer the most practical solution to the problem, bear­ ing in mind the need to provide adequate MARGARINE ACT AMENDMENT BILL opportunity for the public to object and SECOND READING appeal. Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ Finally, I thank the honourable member Minister for Primary Industries) (3 .17 p.m.): for Ashgrove for his support for the Bill and for the clear and concise way in which I move- he explained at the introductory stage the "That the Bill be now read a second provisions and the effect thereof. time." I thank honourable members for their I commend the Bill to the House. contributions to the debate during the intro­ Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the duction of the Bill. It did appear to me Opposition) (3.13 p.m.): The Opposition does that there was general acceptance by the not wish to delay the passage of the Bill Committee of the intent of the Bill and of to any great extent. We have read the Bill the necessity to legislate in accordance with and we believe that the provisions relating the objectives of the Bill. to subdivisions into not more than five allot­ As I indicated at that stage, the Bill has ments will reduce the cost to neighbours and two main parts. The first is to provide for to small subdividers, so we accept it. an increase in the State's margarine quota, Members of the Opposition recognise that and the second is concerned with achieving, the Bill is something of a compromise and as far as possible, uniformity in labelling that two of the major sections of the among the States. If I interpret the speeches Act in relation to advertising and objection correctly, no speaker during the ii?-tr

may be indicated on the label. Table mar­ will become imprinted on the minds of those garine is the type of margarine where this two or three Government members who have content is of most interest to consumers. shown some interest in this matter. Cooking margarine, of course, consists largely Mr. Blake said- or entirely of .tallow, and the Bill provides " 'Label' includes any tag, brand, mark, that this must be shown on the label. pictorial or other descriptive matter, I think that covers the points raised in written, printed, stencilled, marked, embos­ the introductory debate, and I commend the sed or impressed on or attached to, a con­ Bill to the favourable consideration of the tainer of food. House. "Pre-packaged food shall not be des­ Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (3.20 p.m.): cribed or presented on any label or in any As intimated in the Minister's remarks, the labelling in a manner that is false, mislead­ Bill contains two salient points, the first being ing or deceptive or is likely to create an the increase in the State's margarine quota erroneous impression regarding its char­ from 5,200 tonnes to 8,000 tonnes. The acter in any respect. effect of this increase was widely canvassed "Pre-packaged food shall not be des­ at the introductory stage, when reference was cribed or presented on any label or in made to the possible disadvantages that may any labelling by words, pictorial or other be suffered as a result by the dairying devices which refer to or are suggestive industry. As a representative of an area either directly or indirectly, of any other containing the headquarters of the largest product with which such food might be co-operative dairying company in Queem,­ confused or in such a manner as to lead land, I ha\ e a vital interest in this matter. the purchaser or consumer to suppose that As I said at the introductory stage, con­ food is connected with such other product. siderable changes have taken place in the "The name shall indicate the true eating habits of the community. In fact, nature of the food and normally be specific might I say that a revolution has occurred? and not generic." He then referred to such practices as the Mr. Lane: Papaws. inclusion of the word "cooking" on the label, Mr. HANSON: The honourable member but in pale print, on a pale background, for Merthyr no doubt has nostalgic mem­ which does not give the purchaser a clear ories of the days when he tickled the cow's indication of the nature of the product. He udder in New Farm Park. I am very proud recommended the adoption of the inter­ of my long association with the leaders in national standards, one of which provided the dairying industry, many of whom are that a complete list of all ingredients should firm friends of mine. I have shared their be declared on the label in descending order fears and anxieties. of proportion. This is considered to be very important. If the ingredients are printed If I might reply to the interjection of the in a descending order of importance on the honourable member for Merthyr-I was very label, a person can get a general impression vocal in thi's Chamber during a debate on of the contents at a glance, without making the marketing of papaws. I adverted to a detailed study. The list also included a the indiscriminate policies followed by the recommendation that the net contents of Government and in particular by the Minister liquid food be declared by volume. That for Primary Industries, whose actions reacted was generally agreed to by his committee. to the detriment of the papaw industry. But Those ideas stand today, and we are very of course he was influenced by a sectional happy to see that some of them are embodied group in the Committee of Direction of in the legislation presented by the Minister. Fruit Marketing. I achieved certain results on behalf of the papaw growers, and I have As the years progress I hope that the won the admiration of many people who are industries I have referred to will be in a engaged in the fruit and vegetable industry. much more satisfactory state and that industry leaders will be able to apply themselves I am happy to note the Minister's con­ readily to the task of looking after the pro­ currence with my contention that the dairy­ ducers. In the interests of consumers I ing industry and the margarine industry can can only wish the measure well. As mar­ live in close harmony. keting trends and people's eating habits The other important aspect of the Bill change with the passage of time, necessary relates to labelling and packaging. Therefore amendments will have to be introduced. I wish ro quote from an erudite submission Whichever party is in power, whoever is made by an esteemed member of this the Minister, I hope that, at all times, the Assembly, the former member for Isis, Mr. public's requirements are watched vigilantly Blake. so that people will benefit from the pro­ visions contained in the legislation on label­ When adverting to international general ling and packaging. standards in relation to the labelling of pre­ packaged foods-and it is of interest to Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ note that some of these standards are subtly Minister for Primary Industries) (3.28 p.m.), concealed in this legislation-the honourable in reply: I thank the honourable member for member made certain points, which I hope Port Curtis for accepting the provisions 33 986 Magistrates Courts [23 APRIL 1975] Act Amendment Bill

contained in the Bill. Last night certain The matters will be dealt with in Chambers. Government members spoke on the measure The time taken for hearings in the SmaH but it seems that further comment is Claims Tribunal is usually half an hour, unnecessary as no new matters have been or 40 minutes at the very outside. I imagine raised. that a great number of these matters win Motion (Mr. Sullivan) agreed to. be settled at the door of the court, because people will realise that they have a com­ CoMMITTEE mitment to meet and that there is a simple process at hand to enforce it. By the time (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. the matter is due for hearing I imagine it Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the chair) will be settled. Therefore, while there may Clauses 1 to 12, both inclusive, as read, be many cases potentially, I do not believe agreed to. that in fact there will be as many as might Bill reported, without amendment. be expected by the court. We are burdening magistrates with more· THIRD READING and more judicial functions. It is one thing Bill, on motion of Mr. Sul!ivan, by leave, to make legislative provision, as we do in read a third time. many areas, for an increasing number of offences requiring appearances before magis­ trates, but certainly it will increase their work. However, I do not believe that the MAGISTRATES COURTS ACT work-load imposed by this measure will be AMENDMENT BILL so burdensome that they will not be able SECOND READING to cope with it. The other matters in the Bill will, I Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for think, be improvements. So far members of Justice) (3.30 p.m.): I move- the profession have indicated to me that "That the Bill be now read a second they are in agreement with them. I trust time." that honourable members will support them, A~ I ?utli~ed in my introductory remarks, too. this Bill gives the opportunity to establish Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (3.34 p.m.): or we might say to re-establish, the Small I believe that the attitude of the Opposition Debts Court in this State. It has already was very clearly expressed at the introduc­ attracted quite a deal of interest, and the com­ tory stage. We intend to support the prin­ ments I have received have been very ciple of streamlining the debt-recovery favourable. system in the community. From what the· I stress one thing that perhaps might have Minister says, this varies greatly from the been overlooked in the earlier debate. While Small Claims Tribunal. I think it would be this court may appear to have many charac­ agreed that it is based on the concept of teristics similar to those of the Small Claims the Small Claims Tribunal. We have here a Tribunal, in fact it will be substantially dif­ rather simple, informal and expeditious way ferent because it will be part of the Magis­ of handling disputes over small debts. tr~tes Courts system and every magistrate What happens over the next six months will become, when necessary, a referee in will be the test. Honourable members will the Small Debts Court. recall that in 1972 or 1973 when the Small No doubt initially there will be many Claims Tribunal was instituted the Minister thousands of applicants, bearing in mind the gave an undertaking to review that legis­ great number of potential "customers". But lation within a reasonable period. I think, as time goes by, when people realise that Mr. Speaker, you will recall that it was the day of retribution is more readily at to be within a period of six months. I hand, I trust that the enactment of a simple now ask the Minister to give the Chamber procedure such as this will discourage those such an undertaking on this measure. who in the past might have been tempted Although we do not expect many problems, to avoid meeting their small-debt commit­ I would still like the undertaking that if ments. problems do arise the Assembly has a guarantee that in the next session or in Mr. Jensen: Will the magistrates be able the early part of 1976 this matter could be to handle all of this? brought fon1ard for amendment. We are not saying that it has to be amended; it Mr. KNOX: Yes, quite easily. What doubts may not be necessary. But I should like did the honourable member have about it? an undertaking that the Law Reform Com­ mission or the Department of Justice wiH Mr. Jensen: Magistrates are kept pretty give consideration to this matter and watch busy in Bundaberg. the practice in the Small Debts Court. Mr. KNOX: Yes, that is true. However, Mr. Ahem: It would not be necessary to applicants will give notice of their claims get that assurance from this Minister. and there will be opportunity for the other Mr. WRIGHT: I am pleased to hear that. party to be advised of the time and date of I still ask him to give me the undertaking hearing. because I think it would clear the air. Magistrates Courts [23 APRIL 1975] Act Amendment Bill 987

We could deba,te whether the upper limit of enough and lives long enough to see it put on the claim should be $450 or $1,000. Some the Statute Book. It could take anything of us may not accept that it is a matter of from 10 to 20 years. endangering the aspect of bankruptcy. As I have raised one matter several times the Minister has admitted, the sky is almost and I am disappointed that it does not appear the limit in other countries. It could be that to be covered by this Bill. A small farmer time will show that we do not need such was sent a cheque by the C.O.D. or some a maximum amount. other agent. The cheque was stolen and, Mr. Jensen: The honourable member for notwithstanding the fact that the cheque was Landsborough knows that this Minister does crossed, it was signed fraudulently by some things whereas members of the National other person and cashed by a storekeeper Party do not. or trader who specialises in that sort of thing. I put the case to the Minister for Justice. Mr. WRIGHT: I will accept that inter­ I asked him if it came under the provisions jection, but we are getting things done in of the Consumer Affairs Act and he said, the legal field and the Minister must be given "No." I asked if it was covered by the a tremendous amount of credit for this. Small Claims Tribunals Act and he said, However, we do not always appreciate his "No." The only action this unfortunate not warning the Opposition. I reiterate that farmer could take was to go to comt in the it is rather difficult to guess what the ordinary way. Everyone knows that the only Minister is intending to do. What I do is winners in actions in the Magistrates Court, keep a file on all public releases in the hope the District Court or the Supreme Court are that I will discover provisions to be contained the lawyers. Neither the unfortunate fellow in legislation. It could be that the Minister who sues nor the fellow on the other side found out that in previous years I had a really wins. The lawyers always reap a pretty good "leak" and decided to close it. golden harvest. But I think we still do pretty well. I hope The case concerned a farmer at Mutarnee he did not catch the departmental fellow named Campbell who received a cheque for who \Yas helping me. $30 for pineapples that he sold. The cheque Mr. Knox: He learnt his lesson when you was stolen, and, although it was crossed, it betrayed him. was signed in the name of "Campbell" and cashed at a service station in Charters Mr. WRIGHT: I certainly did not betray Towers. I understand that the service anybody. station proprietor who cashed it has a habit Rather than delay the Committee stage, of doing this sort of thing. I ask the Minister to answer two questions at The matter was reported to the police. this point of time. Firstly, is there any They found that the cheque had been restriction on anybody bringing an action deposited in the bank account of the fellow before the Small Debts Court? The who ran the service station. There is there­ definition of "consumer" as it relates to the fore no doubt that the police know where Small Claims Tribunal is rather restrictive in the cheque went. The unfortunate farmer that a farmer, manufacturer, wholesaler or retailer cannot bring an action. A claim wanted the service station proprietor to give can ce brought only by a consumer. him back his $30. But the proprietor said, "Not on your life. I cashed that cheque Secondly, if an action is brought before in good faith; therefore it is mine." When the Small Debts Court, can an alternative the police questioned him closely about the party bring a matter by way of summons in identity of the man who cashed it, he could the Magistrates Court? The moment a not remember him, despite the fact that he matter is listed for hearing by the Small would not cash one cheque a week. He could Claims Tribunal, a summons taken out in not give even a vague description of the the Magistrates Court cannot be proceeded person who cashed it. He could not say if with. On occasions in Rockhampton I have he was tall or short, fat or thin, blond or rung the local clerk of the court and said, brunette. He simply said, "I cashed the "This person has received a summons. I cheque in good faith; therefore it is mine." would like you to advise the plaintiff that The farmer is still lamenting, and still $30 the matter has been lodged with the Small short. Claims Tribunal and it should not be pro­ The only chance that the farmer has of ceeded with." They are two very simple getting the $30 that is rightfully his is to points to which I should like an answer at this stage. take action in the ordinary way in the Mag­ istrates Court. But it would cost him at Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (3.38 least $190 to get even a brumby solicitor -p.m.): I wish to raise a couple of small to act for him. When that is added to the points. I raised one some time ago and I costs of court in the event of his losing the shall deal with it again when the Criminal case, it will be seen that the poor old farmer Code and the Justices Act Amendment Bill is could finish up $250 down the drain in being considered. A successful member of trying to get his $30 back. Parliament needs to have a deal of patience. I should like the Minister to tell the House He makes a suggestion this year and hopes why protection for people in that situation that he is returned to Parliament often is not included in the Bill. From what I can 988 Magistrates Courts [23 APRIL 1975] Act Amendment Bill see in the Bill, because a cheque that was years that people have recognised the true rightfully his was illegally cashed by a value of small business in the Australian service station proprietor after it had been economy. stolen by some other person, that farmer In the aggregate, small business provides cannot go to the Small Debts Court to greater employment opportunity and greater recover the $30 that he lost. stimulus to the Australian economy than Mr. W. D. HEWITT (Chatsworth) (3.42 big business. As against that, it is not p.m.): A few years ago when the Minister organised; it has no professional lobby. When­ brought down legislation to establish the ever legislation that is potentially to the Small Claims Tribunal, he had the distinction detriment of big business comes before a of being the first in Australia to introduce Parliament, big business has its lobbyists such a law. Today he brings down what is and people who can carry a brief for it. a natural counterpart to that legislation pro­ That is not so in the case of small business. viding for the establishment of the Small It is so diversified and covers such a broad Debts Court. I welcome the Bill with par­ canvas that one part is often remote from ticular pleasure. another. I am pleased because to some degree it As I said earlier, we have paid lip-service balances things out, and shows that the to small business; till now we have not done consumer is not always the only person who anything for it. Therefore, I applaud the is aggrieved. In the course of the last few efforts of the Minister for Industrial Develop­ years we have brought down a great number ment, Labour Relations and Consumer Affairs of legislative measures giving greater pro­ in organising seminars for small businessmen tection to the consumer. That is right and in provincial cities. He will be in Bundaberg proper; the number of snide operators now and Maryborough in the next week or so, in business establishes that the consumer and anything he does to assist small businesses must have some law on his side. But to is to be applauded. suggest that it is always the consumer who is aggrieved is quite wrong. There are many I hope that the honourable gentleman small businessmen in the community who will tell the small businessmen about the trade in good faith and believe that people new measure that the Minister for Justice will discharge their obligations. Too often has placed at their disposal, which will give they are left chasing their money, and them the right to recover their debts cheaply, because the individual debts are so small the efficiently and effectively. I believe that the cost of litigation is not justified as it would Liberal Party, emerging as the new champion be greater than the amount being sought. of small business, will say, "This is the first There are a great number of people who of the significant measures that we wish to trade on this fact of life, and for too long enact on behalf of small business." they have been able to exploit the small I say to the Minister for Justice that trader. This legislation corrects some wrongs I hope this is something that he is doing and gives aggrieved persons a form of in that context. I am tremendously pleased recourse that until now they have not that he has chosen to do it, and I am quite enjoyed. sure that small business, to which the Liberal But there is another reason why we, par­ Party is philosophically oriented, will welcome ticularly as Liberals, should be pleased to the measure with great acclaim. welcome the legislation. It gives a fairer deal to the small businessman. Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for Justice) (3.47 p.m.), in reply: I thank honour­ Mr. Aikens: And it keeps the lawyers able members for their contributions to the from getting their fingers into the pool. debate. I shall endeavour to answer quickly Mr. W. D. HEWITT: It saves the cost of the queries that have been raised. litigation. I might choose different words, The honourable member for Rockhampton but the honourable member and I probably asked whether I could give any indication mean the same thing. of review. I could not guarantee any review this year, but there should be a continuing Mr. Aikens: You are a shining light. review. I suggest that by this time next year Mr. W. D. HEWITT: I can receive no we will have a clear picture of how the greater accolade than that. provisions of the Bill have been operating. Having in mind that the majority of the The Liberal Party is, philosophically, new procedures will be in the rules, not in orientated towards free enterprise. But for legislation, I suggest that there could be too long people have said that the Liberal progressive reviews without much attention Party champions the cause of big business. being drawn to them. We will be able to The fact is, of course, that we have been simply change the rules of court to achieve as anxious as has any other party to that objective. I did say at the introductory repudiate monopoly control and big business stage that the application of the provisions that leads to monopoly. However, I will would be covered mainly by rules. The always believe that the Liberal Party is amendment now proposed virtually gives the spiritually more oriented towards the small authority of the Legislature to set up the businessman, and it is only in the last few Small Debts Court. lvfagistrates Courts [23 APRIL 1975] Act Amendment Bill 989

There is no restriction on the qualification particularly wanted to take legal advisers to of the person involved, other than that he the tribunal, and nor have the legal advisers is 0\ved the money. The honourable member wanted to intrude. for Rockhampton asked whether the door Mr. Aikens: In your days as a back­ is closed to other actions if a person elects bencher, didn't you say that when a lawyer to take this course. The answer is, "Yes." walks into court justice flies out the window? If that were not so, people would begin actions in duplicate. Instead of preventing Mr. KNOX: I have never said that in my litigious problems, we would be creating life. The only person who has ever said it .more. in this Chamber has been the honourable 1\Ir. Wright: Did you indicate whether that member himself. He has said it so often that is covered in the Bill? it tends to bore us a little. Let it be clearly understood that we are Mr. KNOX: I mentioned at the intro­ not trying to exclude professional repre­

THE SCOUT ASSOCIATION OF movement has maintained its basic principles AUSTRALIA QUEENSLAND BRANCH over the many years that it has been in BILL existence. SECOND READING No reference was made, however, to the property owned by it, and I think it is Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for germane to do just that now. Throughout Justice) (3.56 p.m.): I move- Queensland the boy scouts own considerable "That the Bill be now read a second tracts of land. In the immediate proximity time." of Brisbane are three areas to which I shall do not propose to again outline the events make brief reference. which gave rise to the necessity for the The first is Eprapah near Redland Bay, the Bill before the House. However, through second is Birri-Birrum, which is near Roche­ stn:c!ural and organisational changes, the dale, and the third is Baden-Powell Park poslt!on has been reached where all pro­ at Samford. In each area commendable perty belonging to the Queensland Branch development has taken place. At Eprapah of the Scout Association of Australia is still the scouts have resisted temptation to over­ registered in the name of The Boy Scouts develop the land. They have left it in sub­ Association, the parent body in the United stantially virgin condition. So well has it Kingdom. Again because of those changes been preserved that it is now being used in the Queensland Branch cannot deal with its a number of environmental studies. Of course, own property. in the new code under which boy scouts The parent body has acknowledged that operate, environmental studies play a very all beneficial interest in property in Queens­ real role in their activities. land registered in its name is and always has Baden-Powell Park at Samford is used been vested absolutely in the Queensland extensively for camping activities. The Branch and has consented to the vesting of wonderful things done by the scouting all such property into the name of the Queens­ movement in this tract of land are to be land Branch. applauded. I am always impressed when The Bill merely gives effect to this arrange­ I visit Baden-Powell Park. ment and does no more than permit the Birri-Birrum at Rochedale caters for the property mentioned to be registered in the scouting activities of groups in my area. name of the body which is the real owner As my boy camps there quite frequently of that property. The present rights of local I visit Birri-Birrum frequently as one of associations, areas and groups in relation to the unpaid chauffeurs, taking my boy down that pr.operty will be unchanged. Any trusts on Fridays and bringing him back on to wh1ch the property is subject will be Sundays. All these areas are exposed to unaffected. the ever-present risk of development. Birri­ A simple registration procedure is provided Bin·um in particular is being overwhelmed and exemption from stamp duty granted in on all sides by development. Some people respect of any instrument used for that believe that it should be sold-and it would purpose. attract a very healthy figure-and the money used to develop other areas. Transitional and savings provisions are also provided in relation to actions, contracts, I hope that the scouting movement resists agreements and the like, and the Bill will all overtures. The longer it holds this land allow the Queensland Branch of the Scout the more valuable it will become. When I Association to once more have control of say "valuable" I speak not in monetary its own property. terms but in terms of value as a continuing assistance to the movement. It will not be Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (3.57 p.m.): very long before urban Brisbane stretches I think all of us would agree that there many miles further out. If areas such as is no need for a great deal of comment Birri-Burrum and Eprapah are not preserved, on this machinery measure. As the Minister the scouting movement likewise will have to indicated at the introductory stage, it is travel very extensively before the boys reach designed to head off problems that might camping grounds. With development taking arise in the future. As such it has our place so fast these days, boys do not have wholehearted support. the treat we had when we were young It pleases me to note that this Assembly of going to land in close proximity to finds time to deal with a problem such as their homes where they can fish, climb this, no matter how big or small it might trees and indulge in all sorts of adventurous be. It is pleasing that we can bring down activities. legislation that is for the good of an import­ I hope that the integrity of these areas ant section of the community. As I say the can be maintained. The longer they are Bill has our wholehearted support. ' kept the more valuable they will be to the boy scout movement. If keeping them Mr. W. D. HEWITT (Chatsworth) (3.58 means that the movement is faced with p.m.): At the introductory stage appropriate monetary problems, I should hope that the complimentary remarks were made about Government will be sympathetic towards it the scout movement, and I certainly wish to and say, "We want to see the integrity be associated with them. This wonderful of these properties maintained. If that The Criminal Code and the [23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill 991

imposes some financial hardship on you, The amount that may be awarded for come to see us and we will do what we criminal-injury compensation is increased can." I am sure that sentiment is shared quite substantially by the Bill from by almost every honourable member. $2,000 to $5,000 and compares more Motion (Mr. Knox) agreed to. than favourably with the awards that can be made in other States. 1t is quite wrong CoMMITTEE to compare an award in a civil case with an ex-gratia payment from Consolidated (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. Revenue. A victim is always at liberty Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the chair) to pursue his civil remedies against his Clauses 1 to 6, both inclusive, as read, attacker if he so desires. However, it should agreed to. be pointed out that there is no limitation Bill reported, without amendment. on the amount that may be awarded to a person suffering injury whilst assisting any THIRD READING police officer to arrest or attempt to arrest an offender or to prevent or attempt to Bill, on motion of Mr. Knox, by leave, prevent the commission of any offence. read a third time. Several speakers advocated the creation of a new offence of motor-vehicle stealing THE CRIMINAL CODE AND THE rather than the amendment of the existing JUSTICES ACT AMENDMENT BILL provisions of "unlawfully using". The Bill provides for the existing section to be SECOND READING changed by- Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah~Minister (1) Increasing the penalty from 5 to 7 for Justice) (4.5 p.m.): I move- years' imprisonment; ''That the Bill be now read a second (2) Providing for circumstances of time." aggravation which will increase the Since its introduction, this Bill has evoked penalty to 10 years' or 12 years' imprison­ a good deal of public interest and generated ment; some worthwhile constructive comments and (3) Providing for specific offences of suggested amendments. Honourable mem­ unlawful use and unlawful possession, bers made a useful contribution to the debate whereas these two offences constituted the prior to the first reading of the Bill and I single offence of unlawful use because propose to reply to some of the points unlawful possession was included by way raised then. of definition in the term "unlawful use"; It was suggested to me that the provisions (4) Constituting the offence if the con­ of the Criminal Code relating to public sent of the person in lawful possession officials do not operate efficiently. The has not been obtained, but providing that, code has extensive provisions in this regard. if the accused can show that he has the It provides for abuse of office, corruption, lawful consent of the owner of the vehicle, extortion, false accounting, false claims and no offence is committed. Normally the other offences by public officials. I assume person in lawful possession is the owner; that the honourable member for Nudgee but the situation is different where the was serious in making ,this suggestion and 1 vehicle is under hire purchase, because the would ask him to submit his suggestions hirer is the person who has lawful pos­ to me in more detail and advance the remedy session and the hire-purchase company is he proposes. I will then be in a better the owner; and position to give deeper consideration to his (5) Extending the provisions to include proposal. Incidentally I would welcome motor boats and sailing boats. detailed proposals from any honourable I believe that these changes will have a member of this House who considers that significant effect on the incidence of car any law I administer, for that matter, is in thefts. If it is found subsequently that need of change. these changes do not have that desired effect, Criticisms were levelled at the time taken consideration will be given to changing the to make ex-gratia payments under the Crim­ offence from "unlawfully using" to car inal Injuries Compensation Scheme. I think stealing. this point was raised by the honourable The amendments contained in this Bill member for Rockhampton. It is just not which have attracted the most attention are correct to suggest that claims for these unsworn statements from the dock and payments will take up to four year" to be notice of alibi. The private legal profession granted. Normally a claim will take from has expressed publicly its opposition to two to three months to be finalised. The these amendments. On the other hand the delay occurs when requests to applicants judiciary, both judges and magistrates, are for relevant information is not forthcoming in favour of abolishing the right to make for many months. Honourable members an unsworn statement from the dock and will appreciate that claims have to be the requirement concerning notice of alibi. investigated to verify their genuineness and Recently a Criminal Law Revision Com­ to ascertain whether the applicant is in fact mittee in New South Wales, comprising rep­ an innocent victim of crime. resentatives of the judiciary and the legal 992 The Criminal Code and the (23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill profession, both private and public, recom­ this matter and recommended that Victoria mended that the right to make an unsworn enact similar legislation. The Victorian Law statement from the dock be abolished and Reform Commissioner stated that- advanced the following grounds for its "lt has been argued that to deprive abolition- accused persons of the advantage of sur­ Firstly, the right is an historical prise in relation to a defence of alibi anachronism. It was imported into our would not be in accord with the general procedures as a device to give the accused policy of our criminal law, that persons a voice at a time when the law did not accused of crime, since they are presumed allow him to give evidence, and the to be innocent, should have every facility reason for its existence has long since for defending themselves. disappeared. "The favour, however, that the law Most other "common law" systems have shows towards accused persons is for the either abolished it or in other ways rend­ purpose of ensuring, so far as possible, that ered it nugatory. the innocent shall not be convicted. But Mr. Aikens: If the legal profession opposes the advantage that a surprise defence of it, it must be good. alibi gives to the defence lies in the pre­ vention of investigation. This favours a Mr. KNOX: I won't bother to answer that person putting forward a false alibi. But interjection. We all know the honourable an innocent person putting forward a true member's problem. alibi obtains no advantage from the pre­ Secondly, it is a significant departure vention of investigation, unless it be in -and the only one-from a system based the elimination of any possibility of on the principles of evidence and examin­ improper attempts to influence his wit­ ation and cross-examination. nesses." Thirdly, it allows the professional crim­ The Bar Association has suggested to me inal to lie without the appropriate test that the provisions in this Bill concerning applied to other witnesses, to introduce notice of alibi should be amended to pro­ irrelevancies, and in other ways to obscure vide that a person of whom notice of alibi the court's search for the truth. has been given shall not be questioned unless Fourthly, the "incapable" accused is un­ the accused or his solicitor has been given likely to be prejudiced by giving evidence. reasonable notice in writing of the time and The jury will make an assessment of him place of questioning and is given the oppor­ just as it will of any other witness. tunity to be present. The requirement of giving notice of alibi The legislation in England, Tasmania and has been part of the law of Scotland since New South Wales does not contain any such 1887, and was the subject of extensive provisiOn. This suggestion was put to the inquiry by the Criminal Law Revision Com­ English committee by the private legal pro­ mittee of England under the chairmanship fession there but was not adopted. On this of the Right Honourable Lord Justice Sellers. point the English committee concluded The report of the committee was presented that- to the United Kingdom Parliament in 1966. "Since the object of the requirement The committee concluded that in its to give the names of alibi witnesses is opinion- to enable the prosecution to investigate "There is a strong case for amending the alibi, we have no doubt that it fol­ the law so as to deprive an accused of the lows that the police should be able to privilege of keeping back a defence of interview the witnesses, as is done in alibi until the last moment. A rule Scotland. This may give rise to diffi­ which enables the accused to deprive the culty if allegations are made at the trial prosecution of the opportunity of investi­ that the police acted improperly when gating the truth about a defence clearly interviewing a witness. The trial would calls for some justification if it is to be then be complicated by the introduction kept." of further issues of fact for the jury. In order to lessen these difficulties it would The report of the committee was adopted and in our opinion be desirable that chief their recommendations were enacted as sec­ officers of police should give instructions tion 11 of the Criminal Justice Act 1967 that before interviewing a proposed alibi which provided that upon a trial on indict­ witness the police should, whenever pos­ ment a defendant should not, without the sible, give the solicitor for the defence leave of the court, adduce evidence in reasonable notice of their intention to do support of an alibi unless before the expira­ so and a reasonable opportunity to be tion of seven days from the committal pro­ present at the interview. We do not ceedings, he gives notice of particulars of suggest that it should be the practice to the alibi and the persons who could support arrange for similar facilities for the accused it. himself in the uncommon case where he This legislation has been followed in Tas­ is not legally represented, especially as mania in 1973, in New South Wales in 1974 he may be a long way from where the and the provisions of the English legislation witness is to be interviewed and may be are followed in this Bill. The Law Reform in custody; but in these cases we suggest Commissioner in Victoria in 1974 examined that the police should try to arrange for The Criminal Code and the [23 APRIL 1975) Justices Act Amendment Bill 993

the interview to be in the presence of schoolhouse, shop, warehouse, counting­ some independent person. These sug­ house, office. store, railway vehicle, garage, gestions relate only to the interviewing hangar, pavilion, factory, workshop, tent, of witnesses named in a notice of alibi caravan, petrol station, ship, aircraft or under the clause. At present if a person vessel or a building which is adjacent to a on arrest or on being questioned about dwelling house and occupied with it but an offence tells the police that he was is not part of it." somewhere else at the time of the offence, Obvious examples which do not readily the police are likely to make inquiries fit into one of these categories are museums, at once in order to check his story and tool sheds and kiosks. It is pointless to may question persons who he says can have to artificially force a building into a support him. This practice is obviously category because there is none which is valuable and there can be no question quite apt to describe it. to its continuance, especially as it may show that the person in question is inno­ Changes to the existing sections relating cent. The matter is different when a for­ to breaking and entering buildings other mal notice of alibi has been given." them dwelling-houses are- I have given serious and deep consideration Firstly, the insertion of a genenl defini­ to this question of investigating an alibi tion of "place" to avoid repetition of once notice of it has been given in accord­ various categories of buildings. ance with the Bill, and I have discusserl Secondly, the enlargement of the existing it at length with the Minister for Police. sections from commission of a crime to We have concluded that once notice of alibi commission of an indictable offence which has been duly given, a member of the Police comp:·ises both a crime and a misdemean­ Force will only be able to interview an our. The deficiency in the exis;ing sections is alibi witness in the presence of an independ­ that conduct such as breaking and entering ent person, and that all members of the for the purpose of assault, or having unlaw­ Police Force will be instructed accordingly. ful carnal knowledge of a girl in the house, I believe that this method of interview will is not covered by the existing offences provide adequate safeguards against improper because assault and unlawful carnal pressure being applied by an over-zealous knowledge are misdemeanours and not police officer, and will also protect members crimes. of the Police Force from false accusations Thirdly, a new offence is provided in of using improper pressures. the new section 422(2), namely, that of The Bar Association has also requested "having entered any place", as defined, that the period in which notice of alibi "with intent to commit an indictable be given be extended. In England and offence therein breaks out of that place." Tasmania the period is seven days, and in This type of offence was not covered by New South Wales it is 10 days. I am agree­ the existing provisions. able to the period being extended from seven I propose to move in Committee that the to 14 days from the date of committal. existing sections relating to breaking and In relation to valueless cheques, the Bar entering places of worship and commit­ Association has asked for the provisions in ting or intending to commit crime be the Bill to be amended to make provision repealed, because the offences contained in where the drawer of the cheque stops pay­ these sections are now contained in the new ment, and where there is delay in present­ sections 421 and 422 in the Bill. ing the cheque for payment. In view of this I also propose to move in Committee request, I propose to change the provision a few minor tidy-up amendments which in the Bill slightly to make it uniform have been brought to my notice by inter­ with the provisions in all the other States. ested persons who have taken the time and The Bill is being amended to make it trouble to scrutinise and peruse the contents clear that the Court of Criminal Appeal of the Bill. has an unfettered discretion to determine the proper sentence to impose when the At the introductory stage I elaborated on Attorney-General has appealed against the the changes contained in the Bill, and I will inadequacy of the sentence. The private not take up the time of the House in legal profession is opposed to this amend­ repeating them again. ment. I do not propose to alter this I am confident that honourable members, amendment because it only makes clear having now had the advantage .of examining what was always intended, and was in fact the Bill, will consider the changes sought acted upon by the Court of Criminal Appeal to be made to our criminal law and pro­ for 30 years until 1973, when a court cedures as desirable in the interests of the decision effectively changed the law to what fair and efficient administration of justice was not intended. in Queensland. Offences for breaking and entering build­ ings other than dwelling-houses are being Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (4.20 p.m.): altered by the Bill because of the difficulty Although the Bill was introduced only two which is experienced from time to time in sitting days ago, the Opposition has given fitting a particular building into the cate­ serious consideration to the amendments pro­ gories set out in the sections, namely, "A posed in it. 994 The Criminal Code and the (23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill

As other honourable members said at the Mr. LINDSAY: I rise to a point of order. introductory stage, the Criminal Code has I ask the honourable member to withdraw been on the Queensland Statute Book for that remark. The only speech that I read three-quarters of a century. Although it in this Chamber was my maiden speech. has been widely criticised, it has also been applauded. One expects that when legis­ Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The honourable lation is introduced dealing with the penalities member for Rockhampton will withdraw the for crime. Once the quantum of penalties remark. comes up for discussion, one must expect Mr. WRIGHT: I will withdraw it. Might I various opinions to be expressed. These will say, Mr. Speaker, that the honourable mem­ come from sociologists, people who believe ber read that speech extremely well. in whipping and flogging, and so on. In my opinion, the provision allowing a An Honourable Member: Like Mr. Frawley. court to find a person guilty but not con­ vict him is an excellent improvement, because Mr. WRIGHT: The honourable member it enables consideration to be given to age, for Murrumba comes into that category. He character, health, mental condition and so certainly holds rather extreme views on the on. It also comes back to the nature of subject. the offence and enables consideration to be Having given serious consideration to the given to extenuating circumstances. amendments now before the House, I must Both the honourable member for Towns­ admit that a determined effort is being made vine (Dr. Scott-Young) and the honourable by the Minister for Justice to update the member for Warrego (Mr. Turner) have Criminal Code. I realise that it is a long raised with me problems that their con­ and arduous task and one that should not stituents have experienced in getting jobs with to be rushed into. Government departments after being con­ However, because of its importance, I victed of an offence. think it is a pity that honourable members Honourable Members interjected. have only a short time in which to debate Mr. WRIGHT: Whoever it was, similar it. It is unfortunate that the business of cases have confronted many members of the House cannot be arranged in such a way Parliament. One of their constituents­ that major pieces of legislation such as this perhaps a young fellow working in the rail­ are introduced very early in the session and wavs-has been convicted of an offence and then held over for, say, three or four weeks. suddenly lost his job. The anomalous situ­ I am sure that most honourable members would like to have a little more time up ation has arisen in this State that, although the Minister for Community and Welfare their sleeve when perusing such legislation. Services has been proclaiming the need for The Opposition welcomes a number of rehabilitation, and he means what he says, the amendments proposed in the Bill, and I these people cannot be employed by a State wish to comment briefly on some of them. Government Department-the Railway The first provision that is very welcome Department, the Works Department, or any gives power to the court to permit the release other department. of certain persons. I read recently a report Mr. Aikens: He may have taken only a of a case in which a former member of couple of onions. the Police Force was charged but not con­ victed. I think that was the way the news­ Mr. WRIGHT: I believe that the hon­ paper report read. Or was it that he was ourable member for Townsville South is found guilty but not convicted? right on the ball with that comment. It might have been a piece of copper "';'ire or Mr. Lindsay interjected. even only a couple of coconuts, as m one case in the Callide electorate. I hope that Mr. WR!GHT: Unfortunately, the hon­ this provision will be available for those cir­ ourable member for Everton has great dif­ cumstances. Surely consideration should be ficulty in reading. I suggest that he goes given to the trivial nature of such offences. to the honourable member for Windsor, who often gives reading lessons. It is ideal for the young person to ensure that he will not be hurt in later life because Mr. LINDSAY: I rise to a point of order. of such an offence. It is ideal for the aged I ask the honourable member for Rockhamp­ person, too. Recently I approached a firm ton to withdraw that remark. I have no on behalf of an old lady who was alleged to trouble in reading. have been shoplifting. Perhaps it was just a slip of the mind. She was around 70 years Mr. WRIGHT: I am pleased to hear that­ of age and she may have just forgotten to ! will withdraw it-but the honourable mem­ declare some of the items. ber could have fooled every member of Mr. Aikens: Her name should have been this Assembly who has heard him read some Bischof. Then she would not have been of his speeches in this Chamber. summonsed. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Mr. WRIGHT: The honourable member for Townsville South is right on the ball Mr. WRIGHT: Let me return to the Bill. again. It seems that sometimes special rules The Criminal Code and the [23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill 995 are applied. Perhaps we are indebted to At the introductory stage the Deputy Leader former Commissioner Bischof, because it of the Opposition made the point that ex-gratia would seem that as a result of his case we payments had been inadequate. We should now have this rather enlightened piece of ensure that victims receive an adequate sum. legislation. The Minister made the point that we cannot parallel their case with civil judgments. If a Mr. Lane: Nothing to do with it. young lass can get $13,000 or $14,000 by Mr. WRIGHT: Maybe not, but it certainly way of damages for a kidney ailment as the fills in the gap. I am told that previously result of some incident, surely we should the proposed procedure needed ministerial have a higher average ex-gratia payment interference, but that will not now be than we have at the moment. I understand required. For that reason I think we will the average is about $900, and that only be very happy with the provision. Similar about 20 applicants have been successful, out improvements have been made in other of the dozens of people who have applied. States and in the United Kingdom. In 1973 I tried to find out how many applications had been made, but I was told Other clauses remove existing anomalies. that the information was not available. Section 75 of the Act covers the discharge of firearms in a dwelling-house. I under­ However, it is not only a matter of stand that because of the definition of quantum. The main difficulty is getting the "dwelling-house" an offender could not be money. It puts a huge burden on the charged with discharging a firearm in a shoulders of a victim to require him to chase Main Roads Department hut. Apparently the offender and prove firstly that the fellow the hut did not come within the definition has not got the ability to pay. I should like of "dwelling-house". It seems that the Bill to see that changed. The procedure is too will overcome problems of that sort. complicated. It is difficult for the victim to Mr. Lane: You have been given the wrong do that and it delays the processing of the advice again. claims. I realise that the Minister said that some of them were put through very quickly. Mr. WRIGHT: I was told by a very well­ I realise also that sometimes the solicitor is known barrister-- at fault, as a certain solicitor in this city will find out very shortly. Although he Mr. Aikens: Disregard them both and told his client that he had made application, ask me. we now learn from the Minister for Justice that no application was ever made. That Mr. WRIGHT: Irrespective of the com­ was six months ago. Apparently some ments of the Minister for Justice, I realise solicitors tend .to lead their clients astray on the value of the honourable member's these matters. opinion on matters of justice. There is obviously need for simplification. Another provision worthy of comment is In fact, some solicitors have asked me to contained in the clauses that amend sections find out what procedure is involved. I have 663C and 663D to permit increased ex-gratia then inquired from officers of the Minister's compensation payments. Previously the department and been told the procedure. limit was $2,000, but I notice now that it It seems that unnecessary difficulties arise will be "an amount not exceeding the pre­ here, so the procedure should be streamlined scribed amount, fixed by the Governor In to enable people to obtain these ex-gratia Council having regard to the amount payments. ordered by the Court to be paid to the applicant." I should hope that now removes The Minister challenges the contention that the maximum limit on the payments and that some claims for compensation have extended the Governor in Council-the Cabinet in over three or four years. I know that some this instance-will giv·e consideration to the have dragged on for that length of time. order of the court and the circumstances I know of one young fellow, now a school­ of the victim. We really need to give con­ teacher up at Croydon I think it is, who was sideration to victims. That was mentioned attacked in 1970. I think he is still waiting by other honourable members, and it was for his money. He may have been paid certainly made clear to us on the crime and recently, but he certainly had not received punishment committee that not enough con­ it at the beginning of 1974. sideration is being given to victims. Mr. Moore: Who attacked him? Mr. Lindsay: I brought it up in my maiden speech. Mr. WRIGHT: He was attacked by three fellows, for no reason at all. Mr. WRIGHT: It looks like every time the honourable member for Everton says I urge the Minister to streamline the something we are expected to put a mark on procedure for the making of ex-gratia pay­ the wall. O.K., we will give him credit. He ments. The scheme is a good one and has made a great maiden speech. I think he been welcomed by many beneficiaries under sent a copy of it to every member in the it; but the victim of an attack needs the Chamber, but about two of them read it­ money round the time of the attack. It is he and one of his very close friends. then that he is faced with costs, not two 996 The Criminal Code and the [23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill

or three years later. So I suggest that we Mr. WRIGHT: I shall come back to that cut the red tape that presently binds the point later in my speech. procedure. The penalty that may be imposed upon a Another commendable amendment is that person convicted of causing grievous bodily to section 685 of The Criminal Code. It harm is to be increased from 7 to 14 years' provides for restitution and compensation imprisonment. An increase from 3 to 7 and falls into line with the opinions held years is provided for in the term of imprison­ by most members. Although this provision ment that may be imposed upon a person is contained in the Justices Act and can be convicted of unlawfully wounding. applied in the Magistrates Court, it is not yet The Deputy Leader of the Opposition applicable in the District Court or the spoke about provocation. A former member Supreme Court. of the Police Force will be participating in The value of this provision became apparent this debate, and I think we might appreciate after the 1974 Brisbane flood, during which his views on this aspect. It is generally held certain fellows were caught ransacking some­ that provocation should be a defence to a one else's property. If I recall correctly, charge not only of assault but also of they were forced to carry out cleaning-up wounding. work in Ipswich. I think the public are The Deputy Leader of the Opposition in agreement with this idea, because they referred to the case of a fellow who, per­ see in it not only punishment but also haps at a dance, hits someone in the mouth a means of providing compensation to the after being provoked by the other person's victim. The knowledge that the offender derogatory comments about his wife. If in is being punished does not afford the victim doing so he were to cut the other man's much satisfaction. I think he must be given face with a ring he would wound him and a right to compensation as well. He is therefore provocation would no longer be entitled to have the property that he has a defence. I looked up the history of this lost restored to him in some way by the and found that it goes back many years, person who deprived him of it in the first to the days when many quarrels were settled place. It is not enough simply to say that with swords. To discourage duelling, pro­ we will give him some payment for the vocation was not allowed as a defence. physical injury suffered. Most people like think times have changed. If a man is to see justice done, and it is done not provoked into doing something whereby he only by punitive measures but also by order­ cuts another's face and draws blood, or ing restitution or compensation to be made. simply smacks him in the mouth, he should This is also, of course, good medicine for be able to use provocation as a defence. We young offenders, particularly those who have all been provoked in some circumstances. commit acts of wanton vandalism. As I say, Mr. Aikens: You can use the extent ot this was shown quite clearly in the Brisbane flood last year. violence that is used on you. Possibly the most important aspect of this Mr. WRIGHT: Again we have a learned legislation and the one that will be given dissertation by way of interjection by the most consideration by the public is that relat­ honourable member for Townsville South, ing to the quantum of penalties. Those and again there is merit in what he says. persons who appeared before the Parliamen­ tary Select Committee on Punishment of I suggest that provocation ~hould be a Crimes of violence-the specialists as well defence in the case of woundmg. Maybe as the laymen-claimed that the present the Minister will tell us why it is being left penalties are not sufficient. At the introduc­ out. Judging by the criticism that has been tory stage the Minister outlined the regard levelled, surely the Law Reform Comffi:ission paid to the recommendations put forward must have thought of this and considered by that committee. it. Many people in the legal _p:ofessi~n have referred to it. Maybe the M1mster will Many sections of The Criminal Code will explain it. come under the draftsman's knife. Some penalties are to be doubled; other are to be Other increases in penalties are welcome. increased to a lesser extent, and others to There is an increase in penalty from $1,000 an even greater extent. For example, the to $2,000 for dangerous driving, on i!ldict­ maximum punishment for indecently dealing ment an increase from $200 to $500 If the with a girl under 17 has been increased fron1 case is dealt with summarily, and an increase 2 years to 5 years' imprisonment and of a for second offences from $400 to $1,000. girl under 14 years from 5 to 7 years' I do not believe that fines will be the imprisonment. I note that this punishment panacea for driving behavioural . probl~ms. may be imposed with or without a whipping. That is not an original remark; it IS obvious. Mr. Frawley: It should be with a whipping. We will still have problems on the road. I recognise that we need deterrents and pun­ Mr. WRIGHT: I thought the honourable itive measures. I therefore agree with the member for Murrumba might have some idea of increasing penalties from $1,000 to comment to make on that. $2,000 and so on. The increase in penalty Mr. Aikens: How many of these penalties from 3 years to 7 years for assault on males will be imposed by the courts? and the increase in penalty for common The Criminal Code and the (23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill 997 assault from $100 to $500 are justifiable. food and decent living conditions and be put Speaking about common assault brings to to work hard to make sure that they will mind matters related to the Police Force. never want to go back there. l'viany people do not feel safe in the com­ munity. Some do not feel safe walking in Mr. Frawley: What about whipping? South Brisbane. I wonder how many Mr. WRIGHT: I do not agree with whip­ honourable members would be game to walk ping although I do understand how people over there on a Friday or Saturday night? can hold such views. An Opposition Member: Colin Lamont. Mr. Aikens: You had a chance to impose Mr. WRIGHT: The honourable member a mandatory penalty, but you squibbed. named him. Mr. WRIGHT: I understand why the hon­ This headline, "Hoons Whip, Bash Youth", ourable member for Townsville South holds which the honourable member for Cairns that view, which has been expressed by has brought to my attention, is a telling honourable members on both sides of the pointer to what is going on. House. We do not want a mandatory pro­ Most honourable members are very much vision in any Act for a person to be sent concerned about the growing number of young to gaol. We know that very little people assaulting old folks for kicks. I remem­ good is done for him there in the first six ber an instance in Sydney where they got an months. Let us have an alternative punish­ old fellow at a bus stop, poured kerosene on ment so that a magistrate may send an him and lit it. They did it for kicks, want­ offender to an improvement camp. Hoods ing to see what happened. might then get fewer thrills from kicking an old lady or setting someone on fire. Mr. Lane: They have upgraded it since One other aspect I am very pleased about you were a bikie, haven't they? is that dealing with the defalcations of trust Mr. WlUGHT: I do not mind admitting funds of directors. We have always agreed that I was a bikie. I think you, Mr. that what is good for the goose is good Speaker, know something about motor-bikes. for the gander. Sometimes I think we Interest in motor cycles is not degrading. forget about those who are involved in the stealing of funds within business-those big \Ve must stamp loutish behaviour out. directors whom we hardly ever hear of; those While I cannot agree with the extreme views trustees-- of the honourable member for Murrumba on whipping, I think alternative methods should Mr. Aikens: Have you seen today's be available. "Telegraph"? Mr. Frawley: If somebody set your father Mr. WRIGHT: The honourable members alight, you wouldn't turn the other cheek. for Bundaberg and Townsville South have pointed out to me the headlines on the Mr. WRIGHT: I admit that that would front page about a $200,000 fraud. be a very emotional, personal issue. I believe that too few judges and magis­ Mr. Jensen: By a solicitor. trates impose the maximum penalty. That point was well made by the honourable Mr. WRIGHT: It worries me that it has member for Townsville South. We can pro­ happened in Queensland. vide for maximum fines of $100 or even We need to deal with these people S 1,000, but some of the fines imposed do severely. I am pleased to see that the not worry the hoods very much. They can penalty is being increased to 10 years' put their hands in their pockets and readily imorisonment. I believe this offence is produce a couple of hundred dollars. be~oming too prevalent in the commercial Possibly we should adopt another society and it is time we increased the approach. While we have no party policy on severity of sentences in an attempt to stamp this, I have a personal view that we should it out. consider introducing a type of improvement I am also interested in the amendments camp, as I would describe it for want of a relating to the illegal use of motor vehicles, better term. I do not suggest that offenders which is provided for by section 408 of The should suffer cruelty in these camps, but Criminal Code. I think this proposal is they should certainly suffer hard yakka. They welcomed by the community. I read in should be made to put their shoulders to the introductory speeches that some members the wheel, whether it means breaking stones would prefer retaining that section as well or clearing timber. Many of them could do as bringing the offence within the definition with a good day's work, or probably a couple of "stealing". I think "unlawful using" has Gf months of good hard work. We hear of been a sop to the offender. If a fellow sentences of three months' hard labour being steals a vehicle, he removes it from the imposed, but very few convicted persons do temporary or permanent possession of the hard labour. Possibly the time is coming owner, and I think that is stealing in any­ when we should provide some place in the one's language. I am pleased to see that it community where young fellows especially is being regarded as stealing and that the may be confined for three months-get good penalty is being increased. 34 998 The Criminal Code and the [23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill

Mr. Aikens: What if under this Minister it because in one instance (the important for Justice a woman steals a car? offence of stealing) the maximum is 7 years while for the other offence (that simply relat­ Mr. WRIGHT: I think it is up to the ing to damaging or interfering) the maximum magistrate. is 12 years. Mr. Aikens: No. The Minister made lengthy mention also not think that "accommodation" could be Mr. WRIGHT: I certainly do not think concurs with the Minister's intention of the Minister would intervene in that. How­ expanding the breaking and entering offence ever, we would have to see from experience. to cover any buildings. Under section 421 of I want to comment on a new offence for the Code the types of buildings are listed. which a maximum of 10 years' imprisonment It mentions a schoolhouse, shop, warehouse is provided-if a vehicle, aircraft or vessel and so on. It seems that this amendment (the provision has been extended by this Bill) will overcome the problem by using general is used in connection with an indictable terminology. We will simply refer to the offence. I do not think this will deter people breaking and entering of "places". I believe from taking part in robberies, but at least that is a commendable way of bringing about it may induce them to use their own cars. clarity and certainty. It seems to be a prevalent offence for offen­ I suggest that the same clarity and cer­ ders to swipe someone else's car and use it in tainty will not necessarily be achieved by the commission of an offence. They do not the amendment to section 427A dealing with care what happens to it afterwards. The the obtaining of goods or credit by false knowledge that they could end up with pretence or wilfully false promise. The 10 years for the use of someone else's section is expanded by a new provision deal­ car in the commission of such an offence ing with the obtaining of property by the may act as a deterrent. passing of valueless cheques. The provision Mr. Lane: What is your definition of defines "property" as, "any chattel, money or "swipe"? v:1luable security." The penalty prescribed is 2 years. Mr. WRIGHT: Swipe, borrow, use or take from possession. If we had the "legal I spoke to the honourable member for Brisbane about this. I think something is to eagles" from the Government side-if the be gained from conferring with others who honourable members for Brisbane and Ash­ have greater knowledge. I asked him: grove were to come into the Chamber­ exactly what do we define as being valnable perhaps they could assist us. security? I have an anomaly here. Suppose While I agr,ee with the general principle a fellow goes to a motel and passes a underlying this provision in the legislation­ cheque for his accommodation. I do not that is, to cut back joy-riding and the car­ believe the Act prevents that. It certainly stealing racket-! am concerned with one would not be a chattel or money and I do aspect of it which I think conld be inter­ not think that "accommodation" could be preted unfairly by the judiciary. If members construed as being a valuable security. The read the Bill-and I will not refer specifically Minister shon!d surely comment on this to the clause-it refers to taking to deprive aspect. I think it needs clarification. the owner of lawful possession temporarily or permanently and imposes a maximum of Another aspect that needs clarification is 7 years' imprisonment; but, if an offender the legality of the widespread practice of stopping a cheque or not honouring it. damages, removes or otherwise interferes This happens every day of the week. I am with the mechanism of the motor vehicle, sure that honourable members have advo­ aircraft or vessel, he is liable to 12 years' cated to their constituents that they should imprisonment. stop a cheque if they are not satisfied with I think this could pose a problem. If a a purchase. Technically, under this provi­ person takes-I will not use the word "swipe" sion, anyone who obtains any chattel, money again-- or valuable security with a cheque that is not paid on presentation for payment is Mr. Moore: It is stealing. guilty of an offence. Mr. WRIGHT: If he steals it-if he If the honourable member for l\Ierthyr deprives the owner of possession of it suggests to one of his constituents that temporarily or permanently-the maximum because he is not happy with the second­ is 7 years. But what happens if he removes hand vehicle he bought, he should simply a hub cap? What happens if he takes a ring the bank and stop payment of the part of the motor? Is that to be interpreted cheque, I believe he would be contravening as bringing him within the definition in that this provision and could be liable to a pen­ he damaged, removed or otherwise inter­ alty of 2 year's imprisonment. It is a fered with the mechanism of the vehicle and common practice, it happens every day of therefore could get up to 12 years? I think the week. Last Monday before I came this calls for clarification. The intention down here, I recommended to a lady that of the Bill is fairly clear, I believe, but this she stop payment of a cheque given to a provision could be dangerous and open to fellow who charged her $60 to clear her 11.buse. I would like the lVIinister to clarify back yard. The Criminal Code and the (23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill 999

It is necessary that people be able to stop trial. In addition, Mr. Macrossan said that payment of cheques when goods have been there has been no real reason for the amend­ misrepresented or when unsatisfactory ser­ ment. The Minister has given us further vices are provided. But are we creating real reasons. I think we should note that the difficulties for ourselves? Will we have the Oi iginal introduction in the United Kingdom. smart retailer or vendor of services being ''as prompted by organised crime there. able to take action against such a person, Although l do not think that we have this or could the person be prosecuted under here, possibly we should close the gate the Criminal Code itself by the police before the bulls get out. because payment of the cheque was slopped and therefore the value of the cheque would Mr. Ail•ens: What is the difference between not be paid on presentation? We are con­ organised crime and unorganised crime? It cerned about this aspect of the Bill. is still crime. believe we will find it inadequate. Mr. WRIGHT: I accept that it is still Two other aspects of the Bill raise con­ crime, but we are dealing, I think, with cern among members of the Opposition, and, criminal organisations that use the system as the Minister said, in the legal profession, for their own benefit. too. The first is alibi evidence and the second is an unsworn statement from the The substance of the new provision is dock. It is worth noting the comments that a defendant will not be able to give made by Mr. J. M. Macrossan, who is alibi evidence in his trial without leave of vice-president of the Bar Association, and the court unless he has given notice of such Mr. S. Foote, the president of the Queens­ alibi evidence within seven days after the land Law Society. They were reported in date of his committal for trial. If it is really "The Courier-Mail" of 19 April as follows- thought that such notice should be given, "The Queensland Bar Association vice­ we should reconsider the period of seven president (Mr. J. M. Macrossan) said the days. Personally, I am opposed to it. I amendment requiring an accused to give have been convinced by legal practitioners details of an alibi to the prosecution inter­ that this aspect of the code does not need fered with the traditional right of the changing. But if we have to change it, why accused person not to disclose his defence make •the period seven days? It has been before his trial. pointed out to me that seven days is not "There doesn't appear to us to be any sufficiently long for this purpose. It has been mischief in Queensland to call for such a stressed that one is fortunate to get typed departure from the present existing right depositions in a week, and depositions pre­ of the accused. pared from tapes can take up to three weeks to be supplied. Many o~her reasons have "This applied also to the abolition of also been given why the period is too short. the right of the accused to make an unsworn statement. Mr. Lane: Have you looked at the pro­ "Mr. Macrossan said the amendment on posed amendments? alibis followed a change in the law in England but in England it was thought Mr. WRIGHT: Yes. I was not aware that necessary to make the step because of the there was going to be any amendment to this level of organised crime. aspect of the Bill. "The Bar Association felt the Queensland Another reason for opposing this provision situation did not warrant such a change is that there is a dependence on the magis­ just as it did not warrant majority jury trate to advise the defendant. Those who verdicts, another change made in England are aware of what magistrates often do to meet organised crime. know that they frequently read from notes, "Mr. Macrossan said the witnesses whose and there is no guarantee that the defendant names had been disclosed could be will understand what he is being told. I exposed to pressures before a trial. note that the court can decide whether it "The Queensland Law Society president, considers that the defendant was so informed Mr. S. Foote, said the society was opposed by the magistrate. I think the whole matter to disclosure of alibi defence to the cuts across the basic principle of not dis­ prosecution. closing a defence in advance. Intimidation "He said it could lead to suggestions It gives the opportunity to unscrupulous of intimidation ·Of witnesses. elements in the Police Force to harass wit­ nesses. In the ordinary course of events, we "In British law for centuries the Crown \lould say that this would not happen in had presented its case and the accused did Queensland. I am sure that a couple of not have to disclose anything until the months ago it would have been said that Crown case v. as presented. it would not happen in New South Wales or "Mr. Foote said the society would have Victoria, but some of the things that are preferred the right to make an unsworn being claimed at the moment are rather dis­ statement to be retained." turbing, and I am sure that many members I can summarise those comments by saying are wondering when claims will be made that that it has been the traditional right of the police officers in Queensland are involved in accused not to disclose his defence before similar sorts of things concerning prisoners. 1000 The Criminal Code and the [23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill

Whilst 99 per cent of police officers could Mr. Knox: He and the honourable mem­ well be above-board and completely honest ber for Townsville South are a pair. in all their dealings with witnesses-- Mr. Aikens: I have a bagful of mail Mr. Lane: You are saying that one in from him. every 100 is dishonest? Mr. WRIGHT: As I said, he was charged Mr. WRIGHT: I am not saying that. with assaulting a parking-meter attendant. There was a long case about it. He went Mr. Lane: You said that 99 out of 100 to the court and pleaded provocation, but are honest. What did you mean by that? he did not have any witnesses. It looked as if Brian Tone Dillon was going to go ]\,fr. WRIGHT: Is the honourable member under for the fifth time. Suddenly, at the saying that no policeman has ever done a last minute, a witness came forward and dishonest act? I believe that there are those supported his claim. She said that 'he did in ·the Police Force who lean on people. in fact see the attendant provoke him in Mr. Lane: You were the one who was some way. I do not know what he was precise. supposed to have said to Tone Dillon, but he did provoke him. I do not know where Mr. WRIGHT: I am being precise. the witness was when the hearing began-I Mr. Lane: You said 99 out of 100 we·re believe she was interstate-but she came honest. back to Rockhampton, saw the report in the newspaper and suddenly rushed in and Mr. WRIGHT: We all know of defendants gave notice that she was a reliable witness. who have admitted all sorts of offences. The I suggest that a similar situation could Leader of the Opposition told us recently also arise with alibi witnesses. An alibi about the fellow who robbed his house, and witness may not be found until a court case how he admitted about 56 breaking and has been started. He or she could be inter­ entering offences. He was just copping the state and not be available to make state­ lot. Whether he actually committed those ments. For these reasons, I believe that we offences, we do not know. should look very carefully at this provision. It is not normal to disclose an alibi. There I do not see that we gain very much by is also the point that if the prosecution is removing this aspect from the code. taken unawares by an alibi that is suddenly A similar situation arises with an unsworn produced, the prosecutor can apply for an statement from the dock. I have heard all adjournment to enable the alibi evidence to sorts of stories about defending counsel be checked. As I said before, the period addng defendants to make statements from of seven days is too short. It envisages the dock to try to gain sympathy from the defence counsel being able to obtain all jury. It is an old technique. The defendant statements required from alibi witnesses in tries to gain the sympathy of the women seven da)s. I am not quite sure that that on the jury. will be possible. If it is absolutely necessary to change the law because of what has Mr. Frawiey: I know of one defendant happened in New South Wales and the who had his wife in the gallery with a baby, United Kingdom, let us at least provide a and she kept pinching it to make it cry so reasonable amount of time. that the women on the jury would feel sympathetic. Mr. Aikens: It is the crown prosecutor rather than the defence counsel who will Mr. WRIGHT: I accept that that is a want extra time. truthful statement. When an unsworn statement from the Mr. WIUGHT: I accept that. I find dock is made, the defendant cannot be myself in some measure of agreement with cross-examined. However, the judge can the honourable member for Townsville South comment on the statement. Solicitors to today. I agree •that this would break up the whom I have spoken have told me that they practice of a defendant suddenly bringing believe the judge can make a reasonable along a long line of hoodlums who are summation of what the defendant has said prepared to say ·that they knew where the and clarify it for the benefit of the jury. defendant was at the time of the alleged It could in fact be a last-ditch stand to gain offence. There may be six or seven of them, sympathy from the jury. Even so, I do and they may have records as long as their not think enough arguments have been arms. But I do think that the rights of advanced to convince honourable members defendants must be protected. that it ought to be repealed. There was a case in Rockhampton that Mr. Aikens: Sometimes they talk them­ concerned a fellow named Brian Tone selves into gaol. Dillon. All members who live in the central region of Queensland would know of him. The Mr. WRIGHT: That may be so_ That is Minister for Justice certainly knows of Brian a risk they take. Tone Dillon, because he once named about If the prosecution is disadvantaged in 52 prominent citizens for all sorts of offences. some way-and that has been suggested by He was once charged with assaulting a park­ way of interjection-possibly it should be ing-meter attendant. admitted that some police prosecutors are The Criminal Code and the [23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill 1001

disadvantaged anyway. From the answer to The offence of assault occasioning bodily a question that the honourable member for harm is now to be dealt with summarily by Nudgee asked the Minister for Police a magistrate. Admittedly magistrates are recently, I know that there is now a special going to be given a discretion as provided police prosecutors' course at the Police Acad­ by section 342 of the code. It might be emy. Quite a number of police officers have worth reading that. It states- undertaken that course, both on a pre­ "If the justices find that the assault service and an in-service basis, and I am complained of was accompanied by an told that it is a very good one. However, attempt to commit a crime, or if for any I suggest that it could be improved a little reason the justices are of opinion that the further if the services of a permanent pro­ charge is a fi_t subject for prosecution ~y fessional officer attached to the Police Depart­ indictment, they are required to abstam ment were used. That was recommended by from dealing with the case summarily." the commissioner back in 1972. We accept that, but I think we should be Mr. Lane: By me in 1971. given more explanation about why we are now expanding the jurisdiction of the Magis­ Mr. WRIGHT: I accept the interjection trates Courts. Is it because of the work­ of the honourable member for Merthyr. It load of the District Courts? If so, I am not is a good idea. If the honourable member sure that this is the answer. We must keep mentioned it in 1971, the commissioner it in mind that when we move from the mentioned it in 1972. However, nothing District Courts we are removing the right has been done about it. to be tried by jury. Mr. Lane: He stole my thought. Mr. Knox: Not necessarily. No, that is not correct. Mr. WRIGHT: If the commis·;ioner stole Mr. WRIGHT: Yes, we are. If we put it the honourable member's thought, we will in the Magistrates Courts there is no jury. give the honourable member for Merthyr a couple of little flowers, or perhaps a star Mr. Knox: I refer the honourable member to put on the wall. Getting away from to the report of the select committee of the frivolity. I concede that it is a good which he was a member. That was in the idea. If the honourable member for Merthyr report. These amendments were in the suggested it, we should give him credit for report. that. It is something to which more cog­ Mr. WRIGHT: I am sorry. I was not nisance should be given. If the police pros­ aware of that. ecutor is having difficulty, let us assist him. Let us ensure that an expert is attached to !VIr. Knox: These are some of the recom­ the Police Department. I am not sure that mendations that were made in that report. police prosecutors would want assistance only before a trial. They might desire to Mr. WRIGHT: I certainly saw the recom­ have some type of post-mortem afterwards mendations. Either that escaped my mind to see why they lost. They could seek advice or I did not realise certain aspects of it at from an expert attached to the department. the time. I believe he would have an important role Just as the Minister for Justice can bring to play and a valuable contribution to make. forward amending legislation to amend leg­ islation he previously introduced, we can It i3 necessary to bridge ·the gap in the change our minds here. One aspect I did training of policemen to be both investigators not consider is that most people opt to have and prosecutors. That has been recognised a matter heard in the Magistrates Courts. by the Minister for Police simply by intro­ They believe that by having it heard in the ducing the new course. A number of police­ Magistrates Courts they might get off more men have already been involved in it, and lightly. In actual fact we are bolstering up those from the central region who have the Magistrates Courts system, and we are taken the course have told me that it is removing the right to be tried by jury for very successful. certain offences. This is Justice Department legislation, It is a pity that the Bill has to be dealt and I :uggest that the Minister for Justice with so expeditiously. There are areas of could foster the idea to remove the disad­ contention, as admitted by the Minister, and vantages facing police prosecutors in courts there is a real need for explanation of some instead of removing from the Act provisions of the provisions. relating to unsworn statements and alibi evidence. Mr. Frawley: It could lie on the table for a couple of months. The final matter on which I wish to com­ ment is the insufficiency of the jurisdiction Mr. WRIGHT: I am not sure that the of the Magistrates Court3. \Ve noticed in Minister would agree to that. If the hon­ this Assembly that the first breakthrough ourable member suggested it he might find came under the Health Act, when the juris­ that he had a lot of supporters. diction of the Magistrates Courts in relation We need further clarification on some to drug offences-! think it was that-was points. I do not want to take up the time increased to cover penalties up to two years. of the House any longer. I have spoken 1002 The Criminal Code and the [23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill at great length already, and I know that the similar legislation was enacted in Papua honourable member for Townsville South New Guinea; and more recently still it has intends to make a very studied contribution. appeared on the Statute Book of the Northern Territory. We support many of the amendments con­ tained in the Bill, but we are concerned I have said that we should exercise special about some of them, and will be speaking care and caution in amending the Criminal further at the Committee stage. Code. Certain sections of it have, however, been found to be quite inappropriate to our Mr. LANE (Merthyr) (5.4 p.m.): I am present day and age. The first such section pleased to have the opportunity to enter the to which I refer is that concerning unsworn debate on the second reading of this Bill statements from the dock. to amend the Criminal Code and the Justices An amendment is being made to section Act. I was sorry that I was unable to 619 of the Criminal Code. In 1970 I was speak at the introductory stage because of responsible for moving a motion at the my absence owing to illness. Liberal Party State Convention in Queensland It is a Bill in which I have been con­ calling on the then Minister for Justice (Dr. siderably interested. As a member of the Del amothe) to amend the code in the manner Minister's justice committee, I was engaged outlined on this occasion by the Minister. in lengthy discussions about the Bill over That motion was carried by an overwhelming a period of 12 months-discussions which majority. Later I wrote an article on that have culminated in the Bill being brought subject and it was published in the June-July down in its present form. It is a matter of 1970 issue of the Queensland Police Journal. personal pride to me to have been involved I also made certain submissions in private in the drafting of the legislation. to the Select Committee on Punishment of To persons concerned with the criminal Crimes of Violence as well as to the Minister law the Queensland Criminal Code almost for Justice. So I would seek to claim some has the force and standing of Holy Writ. credit for the inclusion in the Bill of this It is probably one of the most important particular amendment. pieces of legislation on the State's Statute As the law presently stands, an accused Book. Certainly it is one of the best. It person is permitted to make an unsworn is written in such terms as to enable it to be statement from the dock. It seems to me read and understood by the simplest person in that this practice has grown out of all pro­ the community. It is a product of that great portion in recent years and gives to an jurist Sir Samuel Walker Griffith, who had his accused person a grossly unfair advantage. home in my electorate-Merthyr Homestead, I believe it is a principle of criminal law that after which the electorate was named. At the the prosecution is entitled to the same degree time of drafting the legislation Sir Samuel of justice as that given to the defence. Walker Griffith was the Chief Justice of In my submission to the Minister I Queensland, and later the first Chief Justice of suggested that section 619 of the code should the High Court of Australia. He noted that in be amended to eliminate this practice of drafting the legislation he had derived great allowing an accused person to make an assistance from the Italian Penal Code of unsworn statement from the dock without 1888. being required to enter the witness-box and The code came into force in 1901, having take an oath and subject himself to cross­ been passed though the colonial Parliament in examination. Queensland in 1899. Since then it has stood Brief!;, the history of this practice _is the test of time and of practice and has in that prior to 1892 a person accused 111 fact been copied by a number of other States. Queensland of an indictable offence was They have now codified their criminal law to not permitted either by law or by practice to bring it into line with that of Queensland, give evidence on his own behalf. He had, but Queensland led the way. however the common law right or privilege No amendment should be made to the to mak~ an unsworn statement. This had Criminal Code without the exercise of grown up from the practice of judges allowing adequate care and caution. As I said before, an accused person to do so because he could the influence of the Italian penal code on the not give evidence on oath, except in certain drafting of the initial legislation was quite cases, and was not permitted to be defended significant. It may interest some members to by counsel. When an accused person was know that Sir Samuel Griffith spoke Italian permitted to be represented by counsel, a fluently. In fact in his spare time he trans­ conflict arose over his right to make a lated some of the works of Dante. statement when defended. He was eventually given this right. IVlr. Hansan: Do you speak Italian? In 1899, when the Queensland Criminal Mr. LANE: Not very well. Code was first enacted, section 619 gave to Since the enactment of this legislation it an accused person a statutory right to make has been copied, as I say, by other Australian a statement to the jury, or, in other words, States. In 1902 Western Australia introduced an uns~vorn statement. This practice is an a Criminal Code similar to ours; in 1924 anachronism and should have been elimin­ Tasmania followed suit; in recent times ated years ago. That is what this Bill is The Criminal Code and the [23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill 1003

?esigned to do. In 1971, Mr. Justice Townley, This attack was heard by the jury and was m commenting on this in the Court of very well reported in the Press of that day. Criminal Appeal, said- He then entered the witness-box, took the "One would have thought that once the oath and simply denied the events. He reason for allowing a prisoner to make an could not be cross-examined on the unsworn statement, i.e. his not being per­ statements he made whilst in the dock, only mitted to make a sworn one, disappeared, on what he said in the witness-box. He the right to make, or privilege of making, could not be cross-examined on his character such a statement would have also dis­ or previous convictions, so that any casual appeared." followers of the Press reports of this case, and even some of the less-informed jury­ In commenting further on that occasion on men, were prone to confuse the two stories, the position since the enactment of the that is, the unsworn story which he gave from Criminal Code, Mr. Justice Townley said- the dock, and that which he gave from the "This illustrates the anomalous position witness-box. Combined they made a very occupied by unsworn statements made by powerful story and denied justice to the an accused person at his trial. The reasons prosecution and to the complainant. which gave rise to the practice of allowing them vanished in this State almost 60 I give another example of how this prac­ years ago, and it is probable that they are tice is used unfairly. The complainant may now made mainly in cases where the be a young girl who has been the victim prisoner's previous history or character are of an outrage. She has to enter the witness­ such that he cannot take the risk of hav­ box, take the oath and stand intense cross­ ing them placed before the jury in cross­ examination by defence lawyers. On the examination. It appears to me that a other hand, the accused person, who may be statutory abolition of the right to make such a hardened criminal, may stand relaxed statements is eminently desirable, if it in the dock, from where he is able to tell be accompanied by safeguards preventing lies and besmirch the character of the victim cross-examination of a prisoner to estab­ without fear of being contradicted or having lish previous convictions or bad character." his statements tested by cross-examination. Many criminals are experienced liars and in 1961 these safeguards against a prisoner can handle this situation very convincingly. being questioned on his previous conviction They are not subject to the penalties of were provided by amendment to the Criminal perjury when speaking from the dock. Code and the insertion of section 618A. An accused person cannot now be cross-examined While I appreciated when putting forward in relation to his previous convictions unless my proposal that it would not find much he draws it upon himself by attacking the support among some practising defence character of the prosecution witnesses. I barristers to whom this is a useful tactic, submit, therefore, that he no longer needs I believe there is, at present, a complete the protection afforded to him by the imbalance between the rights of the accused right to make an unsworn statement from person and the rights of the complainant the dock free from cross-examination. and society. Wherever possible this should Mr. Justice Townley was not the only per­ be rectified. It is in fact being rectified by son who considered this system to be archaic. this Bill's amendment to section 619, and I Professor Ze!man Cowen, the Vice-Chancellor applaud the Minister for taking that action. of the University of Queensland, in an article The persons mentioned, eminent as they mentioned in the Queensland Law Reports may be, are not the only ones who favour in 1960, said- such a change. As indicated by the Min­ "The criticisms of the expressed reten­ ister, this amendment is favoured by our tion of this now anomalous privilege (of Chief Justice, the Chief Stipendiary Magis­ allowing unsworn statements) should be trate, The Chief Crown Prosecutor and also brought to the attention of the Legislature." the police. So there is quite a weight of The "Australian" newspaper of 17 January educated and experienced opinion in support 1970 carried an article which reported that of this proposal, despite the points made by the Victorian Statute Law Revision Com­ the Bar Association and the Law Society. mittee was considering whether unsworn Another of these amendments seeks to statements should be abolished and that it allow some offences under the Crimin:tl Code would be reporting to the Victorian Par­ to be dealt \Vith by a magistrate sitting in liament. In New South Wales also, the summary jurisdiction. Amongst those listed Attorney-General, Mr. McCaw, was on is the charge of assault occasioning bodily record in those years as saying that he harm. That, too, is the result of a sub­ strongly believed in the abolition of unsworn mission put forward by me to the Minister. statements. In practice, they are shown to For many years it seemed to me to be be quite unfair. anomalous for the prosecution in practice to A few years ago the notorious criminal find it necessary to charge a person with Darcy Dugan was on trial in Sydney and assault occasioning bodily harm so that proved this point very well. He made an it had power of arrest under the Criminal unsworn statement from the dock during Code; later to prefer a charge of common which he blatantly attacked the arresting assault for which it did not have the power of police officers and the prosecution witnesses. arrest, and then allow the accused person to 1004 The Criminal Code and the [23 APRIL 1975] Justices Act Amendment Bill

be dealt with summarily on the minor charge; something obtained in the past. Were that and later withdraw the more serious so, it could be held that the criminal law charge of assault occasioning bodily harm. was being used for a debt-collecting purpose. That device has been used by the pros­ That is not what the Criminal Code is all ecution for many years. It is one which about. should have been corrected some time ago. I have some slight reservations about the Under the provisions of this Bill, when qualification in this section which requires sufficient evidence is disclosed to warrant a that prosecution shall not be commenced person being charged with the offence of without the consent of a Crown Law officer. assault occasioning bodily harm-that is, I do not believe this is a practical proposal. an assault which represents an inter­ It will to some extent tie the hands of the ference with his health or comfort­ people who seek to administer this legislation that person can in fact be dealt with on and, on many occasions, a criminal will the charge summarily without the necessity escape justice. of proceeding to trial by jury; nor will it be The tendency of members on this side of necessary for the charge to be broken down the House is to under-legislate in these areas to common assault. It will indeed be a very in order to safeguard the rights and liberty useful amendment in the administration of of the individual to the greatest possible criminal law in this State. extent. I can understand the reluctance on Some of the amendments in the Bill pro­ the part of my colleagues to institute this vide for persons charged with offences of legislation concerning valueless cheques with­ breaking and entering to be dealt with sum­ out providing some safeguard. marily by magistrates. With the large vol­ ume of breaking and entering offences com­ I would have preferred to have the mitted these days, surely this, too, is a very authority placed in the hands of a superin­ useful amendment. I am very pleased that tendent of police or someone of similar r:mk. it has not been suggested that the principle For instance, under the Vagrants, Gaming be extended to breaking and entering and Other Offences Act, a person who makes offence1 involving a dwelling-house. I am a false complaint to the police which requ;res sure all other honourable members believe, an investigation cannot be prosecuted unles~ as I do, that the rule that a man's home authority is obtained from an inspector of is his castle is a very sacred one. I should police. One would have thought that in hope that any lessening of an offence com­ this instance an officer of at least the rank mitted in a man's home would not be of superintendent of police, who has 30 years' countenanced by us. service and holds the Queen's Commission, would have been of sufficient standing to Another innovation in the Bill-perhaps a make the judgment. In some of the far­ more positive one-relates to the offence of flung areas of the State a con man could passing a valueless cheque-one that is not perhaps escape justice while authority is met on presentation. I am pleased that it is being obtained from a Crown Law officer in made an offence only when certain things Brisbane. are obtained by the tendering of the cheque. The words used in the Bill are "chattel, I welcome the comments of the honour­ money or valuable security"-something able member for Rockhampton, who that can be seen; something that can be acknowledged that I had on previous occasions grasped in one's hand; something that is advocated some form of secondment of real at the time of the tendering of the officers to the Police Department. I am sure cheque. It is a very important principle he was referring to my comments that legal that the criminal law shall never be used for officers and other qualified people, such as debt -collecting purposes accountants, be seconded to the Police Department so that there would be ready I know that submissions were made at access to Crown Law officers at all times one stage that the new section should include within the ranks of the police. This would an offence of passing a valueless cheque not obviate having to go through the complicated met on presentation in respect of benefits or administrative structures of two departments advantages. Those words have the widest to communicate the requests and receive the possible interpretation and could lead the assent that would be necessary before each Criminal Code into an area of civil debt prosecution could be commenced under this for which it was never meant. I had some­ new provision relating to valueless cheques thing to say in ensuring that that situation not met on presentation. was not created. I am sure that this Legislature will find Those people who have to deal with the in due course that it is necessary to bring criminal law understand quite clearly the the Criminal Code before Parliament again elements which must be proven in cases of if only to amend this provision to give easier false pretences. There must be an access to justice to those who have been obtaining of something at the time defrauded by con men, particularly in the of the tendering of the cheque or, in smaller and more remote towns. As time the case of the offence of wilful false goes by, perhaps some members from promise, obtaining something in the future. country areas will begin to realise the need Never has it been an offence under the for such an amendment, and push for it Criminal Code to pass a valueless cheque for also. The Criminal Code, &c., Bill [24 APRIL 1975] Questions Upon Notice 1005

The only other matter on which I wish to I believe that the House now has before comment is the amendment concerning the it one of the best pieces of legislation that unlawful use of motor vehicles. From have been introduced in this Assembly for debates that have taken place in this some time. Certainly it is the most import­ Assembly, and from things that I have heard ant legislation that honourable members will in other places, it is apparent that there is have before them during this session of quite a lot of emotional and ill-founded Parliament. opinion among some members, and a la·rge Debate, on motion of Mr. Hodges, section of the public, that offences involving adjourned. the taking of motor vehicles should be The House adjourned at 5.31 p.m. regarded as stealing. I should like to commend the Minister on the admirable amendments ·that he is bring­ ing down in respect of the taking of motor vehicles. He has acted very sensibly in upgrading the offence of unlawfully using a motOT vehicle by increasing substantially the penalties for it. It is an offence that is becoming more prevalent daily, and heavy penalties and the full force of the law are needed to stamp it out. The Minister has taken into consideration special circumstances of aggravation that may be found in some instances of unlawful use of motor vehicles, and even more stringent penalties are pro­ vided in such cases. I think i.t would have been quite a bad thing for the administration of the criminal law if the Minister had been persuaded by some of the less-informed members of the community to regard the offence of un­ lawfully using a motor vehicle as stealing. Section 391 of the Criminal Code clearly defines stealing. This offence involves qui•te a number of elements that are clearly under­ stood by those who have dealings with this type of law. The offence of stealing is firmly based in legal history and. case law. It runs right through the Cnminal Code, and it is embodied in quite a number of offences. Breaking, entering and s