SHEP BRYAN. Born 1953

TRANSCRIPT of OH 2058

This interview was recorded on October 9, 2015, for the Maria Rogers Oral History Program. The interviewer and videographer is Sue Boorman. The interview was transcribed by Susan Becker.

ABSTRACT: Shep Bryan attended CU Boulder as an undergraduate during the early 1970s. He lived in Boulder during the tumultuous counterculture years of the early 1970s, and he talks about how that culture dovetailed with his own young adult rebellion. During that time, he participated in one of a series of football games that were held during those years that came to be known as The Hairy Bacon Bowl because they matched up young people who were or looked like hippies (hairy) against police officers (“pigs,” in the parlance of the time; hence “bacon”). He reflects on what the culture of the time and the Hairy Bacon Bowl meant to him. He also talks about his life after his CU years, including doing a stint in the Merchant Marines, becoming a born-again Christian, his marriage and family, and his work as both a businessman and a man of faith.

NOTE: This interview is one of a series about a multi-year event known as The Hairy Bacon Bowl, which occurred in the first half of the 1970s. The interviewer and narrator are identified by their first names when there is a change in speaker. Added material appears in brackets.

[00:00:00]

Sue: So, we're here in Santa Anna, California, we're at Maximum—

Shep: Maximum Security.

Sue: —Security, which is—what's your address?

Shep: 1415 East McFadden, Santa Anna, California.

Sue: And I'm here with Shep Bryan, who played in the Second Annual Hairy Bacon Bowl in December 1971. We're going to do an interview about that for the Maria Rogers Oral History Program at the Carnegie Branch of the Boulder Library. I'm Sue Boorman, interviewer, and the date is October 9, 2015. And—hello, Shep.

Shep: Hi.

Sue: What's your date of birth?

Shep: April 30, 1953, which makes me 62. So this is forty-four years ago. That's a long time ago.

Sue: Yes, it is a long time ago. So, you'll remember what you remember.

1 Shep: Okay. I'll do my best.

[00:01:10]

Sue: Thanks. So tell me a little about your origins, where you grew up, and—

Shep: Okay. I grew up in Fairfield, Connecticut. No—[reacting to interviewer saying that she grew up near there]—you didn't grow up in Fairfield? Westport. No way. Well, that's another story for us. Fairfield, Connecticut, is a nice, well-to-do place. I grew up—I suppose— privileged. I went to really good schools. I'm the eldest son of five children. I've got three brothers and a sister in my primary family. I was a really, really good, model kid. Until about eighth grade. And then, in eighth grade, I was able to begin to see more of the world. Things were beginning to get a little bit crazy then with the Vietnam world, and the students who just weren't paying attention to their adults. So good kid began a transition and—I'm a good kid again [smiles]—but there was a period of time when my mom says she lost her eldest son. So this time of Hairy Bacon and going to college and the years after that were really interesting times for a lot of people my age. And for our country.

[00:02:50]

Sue: Yeah. And eighth grade. What was it about that grade?

Shep: That would be 13 years old. And though my dad was a Marine, and he ruled the house really pretty strictly, even at 13 years old, listening to music—I remember lying in bed at night listening to WABC with Scott Muni and Cousin Bruce on the radio, late at night, and hearing music that I'd never heard before, including The Grateful Dead, Vanilla Fudge, Paul Butterfield. And you listened to music like that back then, and all of a sudden you know there's something different than what you're experiencing playing capture the flag with your buddies around the house at night. And so, I was growing up. And I began to see the world with different eyes.

[00:03:59]

Sue: And so when you said "see the world" it wasn't that you were traveling the world.

Shep: No. I was just seeing there was more to it. So growing up in a good school, and then I went away to school. I'm actually a preppie—I went to a boarding school in Connecticut. And so when I was sent away from home in tenth grade—tenth, eleventh and twelfth—so sophomore, junior and senior years of high school—I was no longer at home with my parents whom I respected and admired and listened to. I was now in a fresh place, surrounded by other young guys. It was a strict school, but boys would be boys, and you know, we learned how to play. Great academics, great sports, but also great recreation.

And that's where I really opened up my eyes. I remember sneaking out of this prep school one weekend and somehow making it to New York City. I went to the Fillmore East and saw Credence Clearwater Revival. And I think they were playing with Mountain that night. And— man—“Katie, bar the door,” at that time. "I want more of this!"

2 [00:05:41]

So by the time I graduated from high school, I needed to get away from anybody who knew who I was and would be putting limits on me. And so I knew I wanted to go to college, and getting away from home would be a good thing. Getting away from anybody I knew would probably be good. And so my mom took me, over Thanksgiving of my—probably my senior year—to Colorado—to see Colorado College, University of Colorado-Denver and Boulder, Colorado. The deal was over as soon as I walked onto the University of Colorado at Boulder campus. There were a lot of pretty girls wandering around in shorts. There were a lot of long-haired dudes playing Frisbee. There was a funny aroma in the air that—I found that of interest, and I said, "This is where I'm going to go to school for college."

Sue: You knew.

Shep: I knew immediately. And in fact it was the only college that I applied to it.

Sue: Good you got in!

Shep: It was a lucky thing that I got in. So, one of the conditions for my getting in, because I was a marginal student according to them, and I was out of state—I had to start school ten days after I graduated from high school. So I went to the summer session at CU in 1971. I graduated, I think it was like June 6, and I was in Boulder ten days later—June 15 or 16—starting college. Really quickly after I got out.

[00:07:30]

And so I still had very good study habits, and I got the best grades that summer that I'd ever gotten in college. It was all kind of downhill after that. But that summer, I still was applying myself. I remember I took—astro-geophysics 101 and philosophy. I can remember the philosophy teacher's name. His name was Mackley [?]. He wore sandals and shorts and frumpy shirts. He had a beard and long hair. He sat in the lotus position on his desk and was teaching philosophy. This was a very new experience for me. It wasn't at all like the prep school that I went to where I wore a jacket and a tie every single day, with nice pants. It was all very different. But it was really cool.

[00:08:23]

Sue: Interesting. So he—did he teach the whole class in lotus position?

Shep: Mackley? He was the professor. Yeah. Pretty much.

Sue: That's like a telling detail of—

Shep: It was a very telling detail, and I'll tell you what was also very telling—I thought that most of what he was talking about was a bunch of bunk. I didn't really get it. And I didn't buy it either. We're talking about Jung, and other philosophers—it was way too heady for me. Especially

3 when it was presented with a slant from where he was coming from, which was probably pretty far to the left and out there.

But I remember taking the exam for that class, and I understood the questions, but I didn't have a lot to say. And, you know, you get those blue exam books. And in a philosophy class with an exam that's going to last an hour-and-a-half or something like that, you're going to fill up a blue book or a blue-book-and-a-half or two. And I remember that I wrote—for the two essays—I just had one-page-and-a-half for each of those essays, and I figured that I had answered the question, and I got up, and I left. And I remember I got a B. And that told me that you can get across the message of what it is that you know and what you've learned without a lot of words. And I found that actually to be pretty useful as time goes on.

[00:09:57]

Sue: In your life. Interesting. Huh!

Shep: Funny the things you remember. But there you go.

Sue: Yeah. That's a good grade.

Shep: It was a good grade for me. Yeah. Now my astro-geophysics, I remember that too. I loved looking up in the sky and seeing what I now know is created by God. I'm a new person now than I was back then. It was really trippy back then. But now, this is the creation of my Lord and—but studying it, anyway, I was fascinated learning about different kinds of stars and their chemical makeup, and why the red ones are big and huge, and the bright blue ones were the hotter ones and further away, and all this kind of stuff. I remember I got an A in that class. Yeah.

[00:10:51]

So the grade average went steadily down for the next two years. But I had a great time.

Sue: So at the time, you didn't consider yourself a religious person?

Shep: No.

Sue: And now—

Shep: I am.

Sue: Christian-oriented or—?

Shep: I am a born again. A believer in Jesus Christ, trying to follow Him faithfully and honor Him with my life. I am SO grateful that He is patient and merciful and forgiving. Because if He weren't all of those things, I wouldn't know Him. Because my life at this time that we're talking about—you can look at it and say, "You're disqualified. You are a bad dude. So you're not going there." But through the blood of Jesus Christ, I am forgiven and anybody else is too who meets

4 him, and knows his story, and his truth. That's the basis and the foundation for my life now. And I had no idea about that.

Sue: At that time.

Shep: At that time.

Sue: Right.

Shep: I would loved to have known that.

[00:12:08]

A quick aside is, during that summer, my first summer in Colorado, that family of five and my nuclear family that I was sure was the best family in the whole wide world—it blew up. My dad left my mom. And I remember there was one night—that was the year that Dr. Zhivago came out, which is just a beautiful movie. I remember going to see that movie by myself and coming out of there and just—you know, it's a very emotional story. And I remember coming out and looking up at the stars that night and crying, hard, because my family had just busted up. And I was asking God why. I didn't hear any answers that night. He had something different in mind for me seventeen years later. So, anyway.

Sue: Yeah. It makes me curious, but we’d better stick with this time period.

[00:13:03]

And where did you live that first summer?

Shep: Libby Hall.

Sue: One of the dorms?

Shep: One of the dorms.

Sue: Okay. How was that?

Shep: Wild. Wild. You know, you're asking these questions, and if my three children ever get hold of this interview, they'll say, "We knew it, Dad." But I've never shared it. But those were crazy days. We're talking 1971.

That summer, I remember listening to the first student debate between people who wanted to be the president of the student body. And I remember listening to this clean-cut young guy, who was definitely more mature than I, presenting his position. And how everybody was booing him and giving him a really hard time. And then some long-haired person got up and started talking—you know, just kind of vague generality type things and everybody was, "Right on!

5 Right on!" I really wanted to go over in that direction, but the lifestyle that I was getting into pulled me over to the other direction.

Sue: The direction of the hippie guy?

Shep: The hippie guy. My hair was getting longer and—I guess the point is, what was going on in those dorms at that time—there was a lot of smoking pot and a lot of other stuff. And a lot of partying. There was a guy in our group of friends whose name was Bud, because the first time he came to his door, knocking to see if he could join the party, he couldn't remember what his name was. "What's your name, man?" "I can't remember.” “Bud!" And come to find out his name was Bob Crane. But he was Bud to us forever.

[00:15:02]

And we had—my best friends from Boulder, Colorado, were made that summer. We stayed close and tight, and one of those guys was on this—he's the only one that I remember who played in the football game later on. But yeah, we did some crazy things. But that's what college then was about. And I'm still convinced that a good bit of Boulder, Colorado, is like that. So I don't think that I would allow my girls to go—have gone to Colorado.

Sue: Have you been back there?

Shep: Just once.

Sue: Was it a while ago?

Shep: Yeah. I actually—later on in life, I worked for a company that was based in Boulder, Colorado. A little start-up company. A long time ago. Thirty years ago. So it's been a long time since I've been there.

Sue: Yeah. Was it the '90s or—do you remember about what time period it would have been?

Shep: No, it would have been '83 to '5 or '6.

Sue: So, not as changed as it is now.

[00:16:06]

Shep: Well, while I was there, during some elections, we voted in some things, which I think had a lot to do with maintaining a beautiful Boulder. I remember one of those issues was a referendum, or whatever they were called back then, that no buildings would be built taller than 55 feet in Boulder, Colorado. We thought that was a great idea. And I think that that is still intact, except for—there were a couple of tall condos or something like that for students.

Sue: Yeah, there's a couple of dorms that got—the dorms now that were tall that you see from above if you're up in the mountains, stick out, but it's still pretty low.

6 Shep: And I think we voted also that the population growth could be no more than x percent per year. Crazy stuff, but it all sounded good.

[00:16:53]

And then there was a war demonstration where we shut down the city one day. We shut down all the interstates coming into the city. And we thought that was really cool.

Sue: Tell me what you remember about that.

Shep: What I remember about that is a friend of a friend's came into the dorm and said, "Hey! There's something happenin' out here. I think it's going to be a great party! Let's go!" And, you know, there were the war protesters who were pretty serious about it, but then there were the rest of us who just were out there having a great time—getting high and sitting in on the freeways and blocking traffic and being idiots. But it was really—I think that's the way a lot of it is— you’ve got people who know what they're doing, who understand who the followers are. And at that point I was just a kid, and I was having a great time. And as I thought about things later on, I didn't really believe in this, but it was fun, and so I did it.

Sue: Yeah.

Shep: I had determined a little while prior that I couldn't be a conscientious objector, that I would be lying in filling out the form on that. I didn't really—I didn't believe that. And as it turns out— you know, my draft number was 69. And they stopped calling at—I think it was like 38 or 39 was the last year I came close. And I would have gone if I had been called up. It would have been very good for me, actually.

But so, no I was just there, and I think a lot of other people were there having fun. And the whole "question authority" thing—it's so much easier to be critical to tear things down than it is to build things up and make good. And that was something that I needed to learn. Which I have. But I was going along and having a good time at that point.

Sue: Yeah, you can see that now, looking back. The difference in yourself.

Shep: Yeah.

[00:19:01]

Sue: Did you participate in the march—I think there was a march that day, from the Hill down to 36. Were you walking down—?

Shep: Yep.

Sue: And was there any—were you there when the tear gas went off? Do you remember that?

Shep: Uh—no.

7 Sue: Okay. Any smashing of windows or anything—

Shep: Not that I—

Sue: Just people walking, not where you—

Shep: I wouldn't have been very comfortable with that at all had that happened. And what I remember was just walking down—Did it start in town, and we walked out to the freeways? I can't remember that very well, but I know there was no damage that was done. At least where I was. I don't recall that at all. I do remember sitting down on the freeway, on the overpass.

Sue: Yep. There's some footage of that, by the way, on YouTube someone just _____ me.

Shep: Is that right?

[00:20:06]

Sue: Yeah. Okay, so you participated in that. Were there other events like that that you participated in—any protests or group—?

Shep: I don't know if it was the same time—it was probably the same time as that—maybe another day, maybe later on in the day—where there was a confrontation. There were authorities over here and long-hairs over here, which was where I was. And I don't even remember what the confrontation was over. There was a big standoff. Everybody was just hiding behind barriers and waiting. And I remember, all of a sudden, some of the authorities over here rushed over to where I was with a few of my friends, and I've never been so scared in my life. It was like, "Oh, shoot! What have I done now? I'm going to get in trouble, and I'm busted, and I'm just having fun. And I don't even know why I'm here." And they just—they wanted to know who I was. They got my name, and I think they got my driver's ID and my school ID. Found out that I was a student, so I was not a leader, because I think the people who were leading this likely were not students.

Sue: Was this on campus?

Shep: Yes. This was on campus, I'm pretty sure.

Sue: And was it the city police, do you know?

Shep: I don't remember. No idea.

Sue: So they just took your name and—

Shep: —and then left. Saw that I was no threat. If everybody else in the crowd was like me, it would have been not an issue. We'd all get sleepy and go away. But there was always the leaders, who were really pretty radical.

[00:21:50]

8 Sue: Yeah. Any other—so in general, what were your memories of attitudes towards authority and police at that time with the students or the hippie groups you're talking about?

Shep: Well, it was consistent with what was happening in the United States of America. I look back on that now, with what I have come to believe to be the case, and I look at that as a really dark time, because it changed so much fundamentally about values and culture. I have changed since that time. And my sense is that there is a lot of people in my generation who did not and have not changed. There's a lot of old hippies who are still old hippies, doing kind of what they were doing. Not too different from what they were doing then.

I had a couple of good friends, I remember, that they had a little business making gates, and they were coming out to California to install a gate that they had made for some really nice house somewhere out here, and they found out that I was out here, and they called me up to see about getting together. And I shared enough about who I had become on the phone that they didn't bother showing up when they got out here. I could tell by the way they were talking—it was a lot of "mans" and "dudes" and "heys" and "party," and I was no longer "man, hey, and dudes and partying.” I'd moved on in my life.

[00:23:45]

So—question authority—I think that may be where—that was the way things were. We were questioning everything. And our parents didn't have a clue how to deal with us. And I would say that that battle continues.

Sue: The question authority as a value still—

Shep: What's important. What really is of importance. I now have, as I mentioned, a different perspective. I would like to believe that my world view is one that is centered on God, the creator of the universe, and his son Jesus Christ, who is the savior of all of us, if we'll just allow Him into our lives. And that is on the far opposite end of the spectrum of, you know, peace, love, free- love, sex, drugs, rock 'n roll. And where nothing really matters. And in fact, everything really does matter.

So, I look back at it, and I've got to say, Sue, that I had so much fun during this, that there's a part of me that says if I had to do it all over again, I'd really like to do it again the same way, because it was so much fun. But I wasted so much time, and I lost so much opportunity to make a difference. That's—I like to think maybe I wouldn't do it again if I had the chance to do it over.

[00:25:25]

Sue: Interesting. Yeah. So did you continue to live in the dorm after that summer?

Shep: No. That summer—after the summer I moved to—I can't remember the name of it—it was a tall building just down the hill, behind the open end of Folsom stadium. I can't remember what it was, but it was not a dorm on campus, but it was like a dorm where students went to live. And I lived in that dorm—or in that condo, whatever it was—that high rise.

9 And I met a young lady who became my girlfriend for that next year—for that year. And then the following year, moved up into the Lazy Dale Cabins at the top of Boulder Canyon in Nederland, just behind—what's the ski resort up there?

Sue: Eldora?

Shep: Eldora—in Lake Eldora.

Sue: Oh, so behind there. Way out there.

Shep: Yes. Yeah. And my second year was really, really, really bad as far as attendance in school was concerned because I was up 25 miles—whatever Boulder Canyon was—living in Lazy Dale Cabins in Lake Eldora, Colorado, behind the ski area. And majoring in other things. Figuring out—it all ended by my figuring out—because I really did love my dad and the rest of my family. And I was wasting his money badly.

So I took off after my second year in Boulder, Colorado, and said I can't waste your money. You've got a bunch of kids left behind me. And so I left when I was—I guess, eighteen or nineteen years old—and cut the knot and was independent at that time. So, no—from the dorm that summer to that condo and up into the hills, I was just a really lost soul.

Sue: And all the sex, drugs and rock 'n roll—

Shep: That was continuing.

Sue: Was that your major?

Shep: Yep. Yep. And I think that that was a pretty common major for most of the people who were not in the engineering or business school in Boulder, Colorado.

[00:27:48]

Sue: Did you stay in Colorado?

Shep: No. I left—the big change was I left, went back east, and ended up—I knew I wanted to travel, and I needed to make money, and I was on my own at that point in time, and I figured out how to do it. I joined the Merchant Marine, and I got out on an oil tanker, and I cruised through Europe and back and forth across the Atlantic. And I was out at sea for about a year-and-a-half. I spent three hours and forty-five minutes a night under the stars looking for ships off the bow, as an ordinary seaman. That was a lot of time to think about what is Shep Bryan going to do with his life? And that's where it became very clear that I needed to turn a corner and do something different.

So I ended up going back to school in Connecticut, which was home state tuition, and that got me on a trajectory that got me to California. And that's my favorite story, if we get that far.

10 Sue: Okay. [laughs]

[00:28:59]

Tensions with the police in general though—you kind of put it in the context of the country and what was happening—I think—you said, in the bigger arena, that it was the philosophy with the local people who were against the establishment were picking up what was happening in the bigger context in the country? Is that—

Shep: Well, you know—

Sue: Am I putting words in your mouth?

Shep: No, no.

Sue: Or was it—

Shep: We were just in a little microcosm, and we were aware that things were happening elsewhere, just vaguely, but it was happening intensely where we were. And our experience was smokin' a lot of pot, listening to crazy professors who were teaching their stuff—it's not as crazy as it is today. And trying to figure out, "What's my direction? What am I going to do? Who am I going to be? And what really matters?" I don't know how other students did or made it or where they ended up, but I know that I still knew who I was when I was growing up, and I was in turmoil. That young boy was in turmoil, living in the body of this young man who was doing all sorts of crazy stuff. I knew this was crazy. I knew that some of these things just weren't right. And I knew there was a dead end. I knew that if I kept on going on a trajectory, I was going to die early. And so I needed to get my head screwed on right.

So I left. Got to a place where I could do a lot of thinking. But the tension between the cops was just—you know, marijuana was prevalent. It was widespread, but it was very illegal still. I remember the second year—you know, the university made it really easy for us. My second year started. Two days before classes started, there was a Grateful Dead concert in the football stadium. We knew that when we left the prior year. And we all knew how we were going to be starting school. It was a GREAT way to start school. That was one of the best parties I have ever been to in my entire life, because the Dead played for about six hours. It was a beautiful, typical beautiful September day. And we knew that up in the boxes up there, high in the stadium, we could see. There were people up there looking down, taking pictures. And so everybody who was having a great time had their picture taken that day. So we knew we were being watched and we needed to be careful, but it didn't stop us from doing anything. And my goodness, what are they going to do anyway? What are they going to do?

But I didn't really sense any tension with the police other than during the demonstration times.

Sue: It was pretty subtle.

11 Shep: Yeah. And they were keeping order as they needed to. And they were taking care of people that did stupid stuff. Really stupid stuff—law-breaking stuff besides just relatively innocent smoking pot. And I'm sure that stuff was going on. I was not a party to it or really aware of it.

[00:32:32]

So. To the Hairy Bacon Bowl. I don't know that it was any different in the Boulder campus than it was in any other college campus. You've got young people breaking the law doing drugs. And talking crazy stuff. And somebody's got to try and keep some sanity around it. And so that's what they were doing. So was there tension between the hippies and the police? Sure. Was there animosity? Well, you know, your popular songs and the leaders of the left-leaning anti-war protestors—you know, they were pigs. They were the enemy. I didn't believe that.

Sue: How did you see them?

Shep: I didn't think to deeply about that, honestly. I didn't think too deeply about that. I said, "Well—first of all, I don't want to get caught or busted for doing anything really bad," because that just would not be good. I was still a good person inside.

So they were keeping order on things. And that made sense to me. But they weren't—I wasn't out there on the edge, breaking the law and other things. You mentioned rioting or trespassing or whatever it was. I didn't do any of that stuff. I was going to school, and we were partying. And having fun. And we were going to school, and partying, and having fun. But the only cops that I was aware of, I guess, was the campus cops. And they were just walking around, just making sure that nothing boiled over too far.

[00:34:27]

Sue: Mm-hmm. So you, yourself, didn't feel a lot of animosity or any—

Shep: None. None.

Sue: But the people—as you were calling—there were some people like the leaders—

Shep: Yeah, I remember one guy in particular, who was an older brother to one of my friends, who was crazy intense over maybe hating "the pigs" for what reason I don't know. And he did a very good job of riling up the crowd and getting the crowd to go—I remember, he was the one who was saying, "Come on! Let's go! Let's go take over the bridge!" And so it just started. You've always got somebody who's initiating and fomenting. And he did.

But again, I didn't feel that myself. I didn't embrace that myself. I was out there just because it was an event, and thought we would have some fun.

Sue: Yeah.

12 Shep: Stupid, but—

Sue: That's where you were at then.

[00:35:32]

Hairy Bacon Bowl. What do you remember about how you got involved in that?

Shep: I honestly—Sue, I don't remember how I got involved. I have a hunch—the one other guy that I remember very specifically, and I see his name on the program, is Cliff Rogers. And Cliff was from New Jersey. Cliff was one of my good friends. He was a small guy with a lot of long hair. It turns out he was really fast. I think he was the one who probably would have recruited me to play in the game. He was already on the team, because he was a great kick-off and punt returner, because he was just small and quick. So I'm pretty certain that it was Cliff who got me involved in the game.

Sue: Had you played much football before?

Shep: Yeah. I played some in high school. I was a fair athlete.

Sue: And in terms of looking like a hippie, what was your appearance?

Shep: I had long hair. I had a lot of great hair! My hair was really, really good. [smiling] I miss it!

Sue: How long was it?

Shep: Past my shoulders. Down to here. [indicates the middle of his upper arm] Yeah. Ponytail. It was great.

Sue: Did you start growing it before you got to Colorado?

Shep: No, the school that I went to—the boarding school that I went to—didn't allow us to have hair over our ears. So I arrived in Boulder, Colorado, with short hair. So, actually, it must have been growing pretty fast, because the picture that you showed me of me that was in the paper, my hair was already down to my shoulders, so it was growing pretty good.

Sue: And you had just gotten there months before—five months or something—six.

Shep: Yeah.

[00:37:20]

Sue: And clothing-wise, did you wear anything particularly identified with the hippies?

13 Shep: Tattered blue jeans. The precursor to the stupid pants that kids wear these days that are hanging half-way down their bottom and below their knees. We all wore blue jeans, and I remember I had Adidas sneakers. Blue jeans, Adidas sneakers—I can't remember what kind of shirt. It's always nice weather in Boulder, and we went up into the mountains a lot, so I probably had layers and a headband. I would have had a headband on. Something—a bandana—a red bandana, tied it in place.

We had—a good friend of mine, John Hughes, had a Datsun pickup truck, and we would drive around Boulder and go up into the mountains, and a few of us would be sitting just in the back of the pickup truck. There weren't any laws or restrictions about safety in those days. Can you picture it? Five guys in a pickup truck with a case of beer and probably a bag of weed going up into the mountains for the afternoon to just take a hike, and get up to the top of someplace, and look out around, and talk about what's going on. It was kind of fun.

Sue: Hmm. That paints the picture nicely. Yeah. I can picture it.

Shep: Yeah. We got out a lot.

Sue: Up to the mountains a lot. Yeah.

[00:38:58]

And the game—do you remember practicing—any practicing?

Shep: [pause] The game is just really—I remember that we did practice. I don't remember practices. I was thinking about this in anticipation of your coming. How did we know what our plays were? I played receiver, and I was the punter. We had to have had practices where we went over what the plays were going to be, and I would know what the routes were, but I haven't got a memory of that at all, interestingly. I do remember some of the game, but not much.

Sue: And what do you think would have appealed to you about playing?

Shep: It was athletics! I loved sports. As I mentioned before, actually I was a pretty good athlete, and had I not gotten involved in the recreational activities that I got involved with, I might have been a decent athlete all the way through college. But that's not the way I went. I loved football. I loved all sorts of sports. I played every kind of sport there was. And so this was an opportunity to get back to something that I remembered very fondly. And playing a game. It was a competitive game. We weren't doing much competitive stuff. And so probably my blood got hot and I just really got excited about—sure, I'd love to be part of this team and go out and take it to them. And have a great time.

[00:40:42]

Sue: And taking it to them—was it anything about who you were going to take it to?

14 Shep: I don't think so. Not for me. It was a game. On the other hand, there was this culture that I was in, and I'm sure there people on the team who would not have felt the same way that I just suggested I did. And I can't remember it very specifically. But I don't think that anybody would have been engaged in this game who in the huddle would have been saying, you know, "let's see if we can go take out this pig out there and do him harm." I can't imagine that I would have been involved in something where there was that kind of hostility.

I think everybody who was playing this probably was similar. They had been athletes. Maybe some still were. I’ve got to imagine our quarterback must have still been some sort of an athlete, because he was throwing good passes and calling the strikes—or the calls. No. It would have been because we wanted to play in the game.

Sue: There wasn't like there was violent intent that you remember.

Shep: No.

[00:41:51]

Sue: Did it seem like the game itself—it sounds like you were playing seriously. It was a serious game in that way for you, competitively.

Shep: Yeah! To win! To win. Just because that's what you do when you play sports. And it wasn't to "beat the pigs," although I'm sure we probably had some sort of cheer to that effect at the end. But, you know, it was competition. And we had—we probably felt that they would really like to beat us too, but we just weren't going to let that happen. And the good fortune is—I think you said that the freaks won all of the seven Hairy Bacon Bowls.

Sue: Yeah. Six, I think it was.

Shep: Yeah. I'm not surprised, actually. There was a lot more of us to call on to fill up the team than there were the law officers.

[00:42:38]

Sue: And the game itself? What do you recall?

Shep: Again, very little. One thing I recall is I think I have a recollection of having a pass just go off my fingertips. I wasn't able to bring it down. That's the only thing I remember about playing wide receiver. I do remember punting, twice, I think. And they weren't very good kicks at all. It was a cold day, which made the fact that I was out there in shorts—it was pretty stupid. But I think that also spoke to the level of competitiveness. I'm not really very fast. And so long pants would have slowed me down. I had short pants on so I could be as quick as I could possibly be.

What I remember the most is that both of my knees were completely rug-burned from the astro- turf that we were on. Because we ended up on the ground a bunch, and my knees were bleeding

15 and they were a mess for a long time after that. I wore that with a badge of honor as a result, after the game.

Sue: Did anyone you know go to the game? Do you remember anything about that?

Shep: I'm sure that a lot of the people who were our friends were in the stands. One more play that I remember—I do remember Cliff Rogers, the guy that I mentioned before— being the friend who probably got me into the game—I remember him catching a punt and running it all the way back for the touchdown. I can see Cliff running down the left side of the field and nobody catching him, and me chasing him, and just having a mob in the end zone. I remember that that was kind of fun.

And so I am certain that there was a good contingent of the guys and some girls too, I'm sure, who were at the game cheering us on. It would be kind of fun—hmm—it would be kind of fun to see if I could track down—I know there's a couple of them here in Southern California.

Sue: Oh, interesting. Let me know if you do.

[00:44:48]

So the game itself, you remember a couple of specific plays and moves you made. It was cold. You scraped your knees. Do you remember anything about the tenor of the crowd? Were they—

Shep: No.

Sue: —unruly? [chuckles] You know, were they—

Shep: No, they're not going to get too much of that, because Folsom Field is a big stadium, and this was just a little game. And there weren't a lot of people there. I mean, there were some spectators, but there's not enough—you've got to have a lot of fans in a football stadium to make noise that you're even aware of. They were away from the field some and it probably wasn't a whole lot of fun for them to watch because of that. But I don't remember.

Sue: Do you remember—do you have any sense of a guess of crowd size?

Shep: Hmm—[pause while thinking]—no.

Sue: A lot of players I've talked to were so focused on the game.

Shep: Yeah. Well, there wouldn't have been much to watch in the crowd. And I'm having trouble visualizing them at all. I don't think there was a whole lot—but I don't know for sure. What have others said?

Sue: I've heard people say, second game—a thousand to, I think, the other person I interviewed today was guessing maybe it was 4,000 or so.

16 Shep: That would probably have been high. [chuckles]

Sue: So, there's a range. Yeah. The stands weren't full. That's the consensus.

Shep: The stands weren't full. And I guess I would also say that if the purpose of the Hairy Bacon Bowl was to try and patch up relationship between the law side of things and the student side of things, I was unaware.

Sue: Hmm.You were just playing because it was a game.

Shep: Yes.

Sue: So it wasn't the ideology around it.

Shep: No.

Sue: Mm-hmm. So for you, it didn't have any impact on your view of the police and so forth.

Shep: No.

[00:47:11]

Sue: Do you remember afterwards—apparently there was a keg and some food and people ate and drank.

Shep: I think so.

Sue: _____.

Shep: I think so. Yeah. I don't remember mixing. I have a vague image that's coming in to my head that I haven't thought of or seen in a long time, but yeah, I can kind of see that. And I would imagine that the fans would have been down and likely participating in that too.

Sue: Bagels, cream cheese, cider. Something like that. I think there was a keg.

Shep: Always. [laughter] Always.

Sue: And you think maybe you weren't mixing with the police side of things, is that what you meant?

Shep: No. If there was a gathering afterwards, that would have been, knowing what I know now, that would have been the time to shake hands and establish a connection between side A and side B. I don't recall that. I don't know if I was grown up enough to be an initiator in that regard—I surely would be now. I would imagine that any of the officers who were playing in that game had as an objective doing exactly that. And I would hope that if I were on the receiving end of somebody's welcoming hand, I would have been civil and respectful. And hopefully I was.

17 Sue: Good. [laughs] But you don't remember actually—

Shep: I don't remember that. No.

Sue: —any kind of movement [?].

[00:48:48]

Do you remember the halftime festivities?

Shep: No. No.

Sue: I don't know how lengthy they were, but I was showing you the picture. There was a little band, and there was the pig running around the field.

Shep: Yeah. You know, I have—again, it's been a long time. If there were a way to get a number of people who were there together who got little snippets, perhaps things would fall in place and some of those pictures would come back. But right now it's not flooding back.

Sue: Which is fine. Yes. And what you've remembered is as much as anybody has.

[00:49:38]

So, the game ended, and you went on with your—what life you've talked about.

Shep: Right.

Sue: Do you—the concept itself—now, looking back on it, how does it strike you? When you first had me show up on your email and inquire—what did it bring up for you?

Shep: Oh, no! I'm busted! Like I said, I am a new creation at this point. I'm the same physical structure with the bones and the blood and the flesh and all that, but who I am is very different. I'm a changed person. And there's a lot of what I did when I was in school that I'm not proud of. Guys can be really stupid in relationships, and I didn't have any good relationships. Um—that's not true. I could have done better.

So when you called, I said, "Oh, no—the Hairy Bacon Bowl. How did that happen?" And it's a really good thing that you didn't call me fifteen years ago when my girls were still 13, 11 and 8. Because I would have been terrified. I would have said, "No, you've got the wrong guy." Because back then, there was no way I would have risked bringing this to light while they were still in their formative years. Now they're grown up, and I sent a picture of this program to them on my phone here just a little bit—I expect to get some feedback on that. But it'll be different.

So, I have moved on.

[00:51:31]

18 Sue: Yes. And the concept in itself, playing a game between two groups in society—it wasn't your focus for the game, you know, as you've said—but what do you think of that concept now—looking back at it, or with what's going on now—?

Shep: Well, I think that it is a brilliant and very practical strategy when you are trying to reach out to a group, a type, for a purpose, that you reach out to them and meet them where they are— if they'll have you. And so, it makes great sense. I would imagine that this idea was spawned by the peace officers. Maybe somebody on our side, but probably not. And that they saw a match where you could leave what you do as a police officer, and you could leave what you are doing as a freak, and just come and play a game where we are competing. And I would imagine that rules were well spelled out up front, and this is a game, and we're competing to see who wins, but we're going to play according to the rules, and we're going to honor those. So I think that that actually is really good. Might have made a difference if somebody influential had talked to me, but actually I wasn't listening to influential people at that part of my life. [chuckles] I don't know if it would have made too much difference.

Sue: Yeah. But the concept itself you could see—

[00:53:29]

Shep: I think there's value in that. And so today, the match would probably be soccer.

Sue: Hmm. And what makes you say that?

Shep: Well, I look at where I am here in Southern California, and I look at who is around me in this particular place—Santa Anna, California—I'm of the understanding that Santa Anna, California, may have the largest Hispanic, specifically Mexican, population concentrated of any particular location or city in the United States. They don't play football in Mexico. They play soccer. Soccer is a language that's an international language. And so that's why I say that.

Sue: Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah.

Shep: In the culture in which I find myself now—soccer.

Sue: Yeah. I hadn't thought of it. But that’s—I like that idea.

[00:54:34]

And a few things—just particular things about Boulder—and I just wonder if you remember—do you remember a group called the STP group?

Shep: STP? I remember SDS. But not STP.

Sue: Yeah, Democratic Society—they [STP] were a group—I think it was a kind of acid. Some people say, “Oh, my God, they were really—lived in a house together and it was an extreme drug group.”

19 Shep: LSD?

Sue: Probably everything, but that was, I think, where they got their name. [STP was a psychedelic drug, similar to LSD, that produced a much longer-lasting high than LSD]

Shep: Not so much.

Sue: It might have been a little bit later than you, possibly.

Shep: There was plenty of LSD going around. But I do not remember the STP group.

Sue: Yes. Someone even told me that Charcoal Chef, this restaurant on the Hill—that people would leave tabs of acid as a tip.

Shep: No kidding.

Sue: That's just sort of a detail that is very telling to me.

Shep: So I wasn't the only one, you're saying! [laughter] No, I wasn't.

Sue: According to my research—

Shep: No, no. I'm just an average Joe.

Sue: In that culture.

Shep: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:55]

Sue: And do you remember lots of people just standing around the Hill—lots of hippies just kind of flooding the Hill?

Shep: I wouldn't say flooding the Hill. The Hill was a great place. There was a bar up there called Tulagi's. Tulagi's was a great bar. They had great music. And I remember The James Gang played at Tulagi's on a regular basis. And [pause]—I may remember his name before we're done, but he plays for the Eagles now, he's just a fabulous guitarist—and that was a lot of fun. Some good music up there. And I remember a restaurant where you could order hamburgers over a phone—you had to drink 3.2 beer—the 3.2 beer was really too bad—but there was a lot of fun stuff. And I had three classes in a movie theater up on the Hill, close to Tulagi's. I mean, they were large classes. Can you imagine taking a class—art history class was one of them—in a movie theater because there's so many students?

Sue: Mm-hmm. It could be that that's the Fox Theater now. That's next to where Tulagi's was.

Shep: Maybe. Is Tulagi's still there?

20 Sue: It was there until not that long ago. Um—I'm thinking early 2000s. I'm not completely sure I'm right.

Shep: Really. I'm not surprised. So actually I didn't spend a lot of time just wandering around the Hill and Tulagi in Boulder. I do remember though, there was this really cool little sandwich shop—it was one that—I don't know how Subway sandwiches got started, but there was a subway shop on whatever that main street is just downhill from Tulagi. I remember going over to the subway shop. It may have been open—maybe not all the time, but it was open late enough that it was a good place to go to late at night when you were hungry, for whatever the reason was.

Sue: Yeah. You loved those places.

[00:58:06]

Shep: Yeah. And it was generally busy, and if you were looking for something to have some fun with, generally you could find it on the Hill, also. And I remember that's where I had the first person tell me about Jesus Christ, on the Hill in Boulder, Colorado. Some guy who was ahead of me on the journey, who had figured out that drugs and where I was, was a dead end. And he'd found his salvation in Jesus Christ. And I remember he shared his story with me, and I wasn't interested at the time. But I do remember that, and I refer to that oftentimes, actually, in my story.

Sue: Was there—at some point, there was—somebody told me there was a lot of heroin on the Hill, people doing that. That might have been later.

Shep: Wasn't in my time.

[00:59:02]

Sue: Okay. Other things—you remember a dorm—an old fraternity thatx they turned into student housing called Cloud Nine?

Shep: No.

Sue: Okay, because I think some players are from there. And also, it seems to be the idea generated—just from what I've learned—from the student—the Program Council.

Shep: For this?

Sue: Hairy Bacon.

Shep: Well, then I should give the students more credit. [laughter] Well, that's good to know. But I—no—again, Sue, I had gone to private school, and then a boarding school, and my dad was a Marine, and I was under a lid for all of my early formative years. And like I think I said earlier, I needed to get away. And so I went away to be just kind of free and anonymous, and I wasn't

21 looking to participate in anything constructive or meaningful. I just—I was living out something that was coming out from inside me. So I'm glad there were responsible people on the Student Council who suggested it would be good for better relations between problem kids out there. So, I applaud them for being, again, ahead of the curve.

01:00:33]

Sue: Anything else you want to add about that time that you remember or about Boulder, about the game, you—you know, who you are now and then, or anything?

Shep: I remember it fondly. I had a lot of fun, but that's not why I went there. I went there to go to college. And I failed at that badly. My dad tells a story from his side about receiving a phone call from his oldest son in the springtime of my second year out there. He says that I said, "I need help." And I did need help. And I'm glad that I reached out to my dad. I remember that my dad came out, and I mentioned earlier about meeting people where they are if you want to try to understand them. He came out and he—bless his heart—he tried to meet me where I was. Anyway—I survived. I survived, you know. God's got something in store for me still. He's not done with me. And he didn't let me go by the wayside—could have happened, but it didn't. There's still a reason I'm here.

[01:02:07]

Sue: And, I didn't ask you at the beginning, but can you just say what you do in the world now— you know, what you—

Shep: Sure. Well, what do I do in the world now? I've already told you—I'll just say it very specifically—my purpose for being at this point in time has to do with my faith in Jesus Christ. That has shaped my life. I arrived in Irvine, California, on July 13, 1981, which is, what, 34 years ago or so. And I drove out here from Portland, Maine. And I was kind of running away from a broken heart and stuff over there.

The day I arrived here in California, I met the young lady who was going to become my wife two years later. Literally, the day I arrived, I met Nancy. We went to work together for the same company—it was called NBI, and NBI was headquartered in Boulder, Colorado. She had just graduated from college and started working at this place ten days before I arrived. I was seven years out of school—seven years her senior—and she shared with me her story about her faith in Christ—early. And we got—she was too good a girl for me to date, because I'd never had any successful relationships. And I didn't. But we got set up a year later, and we got married a year after that. And here we are—we've got three grown children.

I stayed in the high tech arena for seventeen years, and then got to a place where our girls needed as much of me as I could provide, and the businesses that I was working for as a sales guy were wanting more and more of my time, so we got into the business that we find ourselves in now, twenty-one years ago. Shep and Nancy Bryan own a company called Maximum Security Safes. It's a very small business that's been functioning now for twenty-one years. My youngest used to say, when she was asked by her friends, "Well, what does your dad do?" And Carlin [?] would

22 say, "My dad does safes. He sells safes." And we've got a nice little business now—there's eleven of us employed in this company, and we've got this little niche with really beautiful, residential jewelry safes that we're selling all over the country, and now beginning to sell them internationally. After twenty-plus years of hard work, things are beginning to click into place.

So, that's what we do for a livelihood. But we have life outside of work, which is our faith-based environment. So that's really what is more important to us. We're trying to contribute to our society and our culture through our church environment. We're leaders in our—we’re spiritual leaders in our congregation and participating, trying to help make this world a better place, and glorify the name of God in everything that we do.

We show up here and spend way too much time every day, but there's a purpose and the good Lord's in charge, so as long as He keeps us going, we're going to keep on going.

[01:06:01]

Sue: And hobbies that you do for fun?

Shep: I wish. I wish. Life as a small business owner may be easy for some, but I think for most it is not. We went into this business thinking that we're going to have more free time, more control over our destiny, and more money. We're still searching after all three of those. And what's gone by the wayside of late—I love to play golf. I would love to play golf on a regular basis, but I don't get to. There's a picture on the wall there of Pebble Beach. That's the eighth hole. I got a chance to play there once, several years ago, and I love that picture, because it makes me think about where I'd really love to be able to just go and relax and have fun on a regular basis. _____ golf courses around here.

But we have a dog. Nancy and I are now empty nesters. We got a dog, Theo, who's down at the other end here, and he's our constant companion. I go for walks in this beautiful park that I live near on a regular basis with Theo. And so I get my exercise, good stiff walks up and over hills and around the pond. That, and work, and our family of faith, and that and work and our family of faith—this is our life. We're getting a little more free time these days, but—

Sue: Good. Okay. I think you've answered my questions. If there's anything else you want to add to what we've already—

Shep: No, I think if I had more recollections, I would have shared them already. I don't know if I'm going to get any more. I may. There are a couple of folks that I do know from Boulder, Colorado, who are in the area, and I may just ask them what they remember. If they were aware of the Hairy Bacon Bowl.

Sue: That would be great.

Shep. Yeah. And see what they remember. Some of them have got good memories. So they may remember more. I hope this is something that will be of value—

23 Sue: Very helpful.

Shep: —and benefit for what your project is all about. And thank you very much for asking.

Sue: Yeah. Thanks so much. Very helpful. And I really appreciate your making the time, because I know you are busy.

Shep: You're welcome.

Sue: Thanks again.

Shep: Thank you. Goodbye.

Sue: Goodbye.

[01:08:37] [End of interview]

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