Coptic Orthodox Statistics and Migration in Maghagha

By

Elizabeth Edwards

Supervised and edited by

Cornelis Hulsman

Table of Contents 1. Introduction ...... 2 2. Questions ...... 2 3. Interview with Father Mifrih, a priest at the Church of the Virgin in the village of Dayr al-Gārnūs, part of the Diocese of Maghāghah, August 2011...... 4 4. Interview with Father Quzmān, a priest at the Church of Mar Girgis in the village of Jazeerat Sharona, part of the Diocese of Maghāghah, August 2011...... 7 5. Interview with Father Yu’annis, a priest at the Church of the Lady Virgin in the village of Qufādah, part of the Diocese of Maghāghah, August 2011...... 8 6. Interview with members of the Muslim Community in the village of Banī Walims, August 2011 11 7. Interview with Muslim Migrant from Banī Walims, August 2011...... 12 8. Interview in Cairo with Ibrahim, a Christian Migrant from Maghāghah, August 2011...... 13 9. Interview with Shenouda, a Christian Migrant from Menya to Sharm el-Sheikh...... 13 10. List of Churches and Priests in the Diocese of Maghāghah ...... 14 11. Behavioural and Cultural Notes on Field Research...... 17 12. Review of Elizabeth Edward’s “Coptic Orthodox Statistics and Migration in Maghāghah.” ...19

1 1. Introduction

In August 2011 I spent nearly a week in Maghâghah staying with Father Yu'annis to carry out research on Coptic statistics and migration. It was an amazing experience where I learnt a great deal about life in Upper Egypt, how to do research in the area and the difficulties that researchers may come across such as people being suspicious of foreigners doing research and difficulties in seeing certain bishops or priests because of a more lax approach to organization.

Everyone was very welcoming and hospitable, particularly Father Yu'annis (a valuable contact of the AWR), without whom my research wouldn't have been nearly as successful as it was with the aid of his diplomacy and contacts.

I travelled to Maghâghah to ask questions about how the Church there counts its congregation and about Christian identity such as the kind of name a person is given (i.e. Christian or neutral), the number of people who convert, whether people who migrate to Cairo or Lower Egypt and outside Egypt are still counted as members of the Church and also how many Churches and Priests there are in the area and if this has increased or decreased. Below is a detailed list of the questions that I asked at three Churches in the diocese of Maghâghah, a Muslim community in a village outside Maghâghah and local inhabitants of the villages. I have also included two brief interviews with migrants from Maghâghah who now live in Cairo and Sharm el-Sheikh.

As will be evident in my interviews, most of the people that I interviewed did not have an intimate knowledge of the counting process or any statistics but unfortunately the Bishop of Maghâghah and his secretary were unavailable for an interview in the short period I was there, it is not that they did not want to see me. If no reference is made in the interview transcripts to a question, it is because that information is unknown or unavailable. Additionally, I originally intended to compare the Church's population count to that of the 1996 Census however the Census results for that year are stored in CAPMAS and do not have the answers to the religion question published (and in 2006 there was no obligatory religion question).

2. Questions

1. What is the total number of Christians and Muslims, social classes, education?

2. How many priests and churches are in the diocese, how they have grown or decreased over the past decades?

3. Can you tell me anything about church building problems and permissions obtained? What is the public visibility of Christians like in diocese other then church buildings? Do Christians wear crosses in public, have crosses on their wrists?

4. Does the Church count its congregation? How does it do this? Can I speak to people who are responsible for various aspects of the registration process? What happens from the moment a family is asked to fill in a questionnaire to the moment the data is compiled for the bishop?

2 Who checks whether information is accurate or not? What are the advantages and disadvantages of these methods?

5. Can I see the registration books? Is the registration centralized or per church? If so how and how frequently is information from parishes given to the bishopric’s central office?

6. When did you start counting and registering in Maghâghah? How have the methods of counting and registration changed over time in? Have they improved?

7. What was the number of Copts in Maghâghah when you started counting and what is the increase until today? Do you register people have migrated to Cairo?

8. In what ways do the methods used to count and register in Maghâghah differ from methods used by other bishoprics?

9. What are the effects and implications of the heavy Christian migration to Cairo on Maghâghah and the church’s counting and registration efforts here? How do you avoid double counting, that is avoiding that someone is both registered in both his/her diocese of origin and the diocese he/she went to? Do you register the mother of the person registered and compare this with his diocese of origin. This could avoid double counting since human beings have one mother only.

10. Given the recent revolution and changes in government, will continued registration and counting efforts become more frequent in Shubrâ al-Khaymah?

11. What names are given to children? Any neutral names that could be either Christian or Muslim such as ‘Âdil? Is there a change in the proportion of names that are explicitly Christian in comparison to those that are neutral? How is this registered? Can this be counted? Or are changes notes only estimates and impressions?

12. How prevalent are identity card mistakes (i.e. assumed Muslim instead of Christian) in Maghâghah? Could you give an estimate of the number and let us know what this estimate is based on?

13. How common are reports in Maghâghah of Christians failing to register as Christians in the official census out of fear of some type of government reprisal? Could you give an estimate of the number and let us know what this estimate is based on?

14. How persistent are conversions of Muslims to Christianity, and vice versa, in Maghâghah? Could you give an estimate of the number and let us know what this estimate is based on?

3 15. Can I interview people who have relatives that have migrated away from Upper Egypt? Why did their relatives have leave? Who are these relatives (brother, son, daughter, uncle, cousin, etc)? What is their age, level of education and profession of people who left? How often they return to their village or town of origin and when? What do people who have left do for their village or town of origin?

3. Interview with Father Mifrih, a priest at the Church of the Virgin in the village of Dayr al-Gārnūs, part of the Diocese of Maghāghah, August 2011

Father Mifrih is a young priest who was introduced to me by Father Yu’annis on my first night in Maghâghah during a visit to the Church of the Virgin in Dayr al-Gârnûs which is famous for its well that Jesus purportedly drank from. Father Mifrih is a very direct and succinct person with a sharp sense of humour who was very open to my research and answered all my questions without hesitation. He was also very hospitable and welcoming despite the fact that he was very busy that evening performing a baptism and running the Church.

new church under construction Father Mifrih carrying out a baptism

4 The author with Father Mifrih

Information provided by Father Mifrih:

- The village of Dayr al-Gārnūs is located an hour west of the Bishopric of Maghāghah and all the inhabitants are Christian. The population is 10,000 (individuals, not families) and the village is quite poor compared to the larger town of Maghāghah. The majority of people go to school and leave with a diploma, then they usually go on to do agricultural jobs and rear livestock with some others going into carpentry or other manual work.

- The Church has three priests (Father Mifrih, Father Ya’qūb and Father Shenouda) and as the congregation grew, so the number of priests increased to three in the 1970's but the concrete facts and numbers of which priests were around and when is unknown. The Church itself is also expanding, with a new three-storey high Church being built meters away from the old one (but still within the Church compound). The new Church has cost three million Egyptian Pounds (raised through donations) to build and will take one more year to complete (the project was started two years ago). Originally the Governorate of al-Menya refused to allow the Church to be built (Father Mifrih could not explain why they refused). The Church waited a year till the Governorate was in different hands and then re-applied for building permission with new papers and had no trouble receiving permission.

- People openly wear crosses around their necks and have crosses tattooed on their wrists just like all other Copts and are very proud of belonging to their religion. Sometimes Christians may be treated differently if they are wearing a cross, the example given was that if a Muslim comes to fix something in their house they may not do as good a job were they fixing something in a Muslim household.

- The Church does count its congregation and the last count was done in 2009. There is no set rule for how frequently these counts are carried out, they just happen when the Bishop's office ask for one. Papers are delivered to each household by chaperones from the Church. These papers are usually filled out by the father of the household and are then collected by the Church servants (local volunteers who help out in the Church) who go to each household and bring them to the Church. Then the priests drive the papers to the Bishop's office in Maghāghah. (Sadly I could not visit the Bishop as he was busy and his secretary was one holiday). It is

5 unknown whether other Bishoprics use the same counting method or not.

- There were no registration books to read at the Church and it is unknown when counting began or what the numbers are from other years' counting. Even if there were to be a registration book people are always considered to be a part of the Church /village/community when they migrate to Cairo or abroad as they often return for visits and support the Church financially. The diocese would not cross off the name of a person who migrates. Whether they are counted in their Church in Cairo or the Red Sea or Alexandria is unknown to the Church here.

- Very few people have neutral (i.e. not identifiably Christian or Muslim) names such as ‘Ādil or Ashraf. Approximately 10% of people have neutral names (this figure is based on knowledge of the congregation). The majority of names are Christian.

- ID card mistakes that classify Christians as Muslims do occur. The suggested figure is 5 a year based on Father Mifrih's knowledge of his community. To rectify the mistake, the individual must take the wedding certificate of their parents or their siblings' papers with them to an office in Maghāghah.

- The number of converts is unknown, although through word of mouth Father Mifrih has the impression that more people convert to Christianity than to Islam. Christians purportedly convert to Islam for financial reasons, ID issues, nationality, success and marriage while Muslims convert to Christianity for theological reasons. Many Christians who convert to Islam return to Christianity. However this causes problems as there is the "Qānūn al-Riddah" in Islam that states converts from Islam must be killed.

- It is unknown of the revolution will affect counting efforts. What it may affect is migration as some Christians are very concerned about Salafis and the Muslim Brotherhood gaining strength and so may feel threatened, however not all Christians feel this way.

- Lots of people have migrated from Dayr al-Gārnūs to other places in Egypt and abroad. {When I asked people from the congregation for information about their relatives, particularly about whether they sent money to the Church and about their level of education, some people felt these questions to be too personal and started to get a little upset so I stopped asking}. The following are details of family member of people who have migrated from Dayr al-Gārnūs:

Cousin of a house wife, working in trade and business in Cairo. Age 50. Returns to the village three times a year (his wife and family are with him in Cairo) and supports the Church financially. Brother of a Church servant, works as a mechanic in Cairo. Age 28. Returns to the village three times a year and supports the Church financially. Cousin of a Church servant, moved to Cairo 3 years ago and works in tourism. Age 16. Cousin of a trinket shop owner, immigrated to America through the "lottery" three years ago. Age 26. He hasn't returned. Brother of a trinket shop owner, working in a hotel in Virginia for five years. Age 37. Has returned three times in total. Sometimes sends money. Travelled to America through the "lottery".

- The "lottery" refers to the competition that the American Embassy holds to give out green cards (the competition is held in all countries). Entire families can apply. Many Christians

6 apply for this lottery and have travelled to America through it.

4. Interview with Father Quzmān, a priest at the Church of Mar Girgis in the village of Jazeerat Sharona, part of the Diocese of Maghāghah, August 2011

Father Yu’annis kindly drove me all the way to Jazeerat Sharona, involving a ferry ride across the Nile, to interview Father Quzmān (who is actually the biological father of Father Mifrih who is one of the priests in Dayr al-Gārnūs who I also interviewed). Father Quzmān was very hospitable but he was very suspicious of this research so myself and Father Yu’annis had to spend a long time explaining and repeating what the research is for. Those in the room with us were also concerned about the Government reading the AWR research and if that would have any implications for those who give information. Father Quzmān also did not answer a lot of the questions and became quite agitated when I tried to approach new subjects (even with the utmost diplomacy). If Father Yu’annis hadn't been with me, I don't believe that I would have had any success interviewing Father Quzmān as Father Yu’annis is such a good people-person and naturally has the trust of other priests.

Father Quzman and Father Yo'annis Father Quzman and Father Yo'annis

Information provided by Father Quzmān:

- The town of Jazeerat Sharona is located an hour's drive over the Nile by ferry East of Maghāghah. The population is 75% Christian (approximate number from Father Quzmān's experience) and the village has a total population of 21,000 people (this number is based on what Father Quzmān read during the elections). Most jobs in the village are agricultural or involve manual work and the people are generally poorer than those in Maghāghah. Approximately 50-70 Christians a year go to University from the village (based on Father Quzmān’s knowledge of his congregation) but most have at least a diploma from school. The village has expanded and grown considerably in the last 60 years, with the Church there taking

7 on its 7th Priest in 2006 (so the priests there are now: Father Quzmān, Father Yasá, Father Hizqyal, Father Kyrillos, Father Angelius, Father Bishāy and Father Bakhoum).

- The Church here hasn't encountered any building problems and Christians all have crosses tattooed on their wrists and hands and wear crosses around their necks. Many Christian houses have big crosses painted on the doors and walls as well.

- The last population/congregation count was in 2000. Papers are delivered to each household by Church servants (volunteers who work for the Church in Sunday schools or people who help out on a regular basis with odd jobs) and are then usually filled in by the father. The papers are then collected by the Church servants from each household and taken to the Church. From there they are taken to the Bishop's office. The Bishop's office is in charge of the frequency of the counting and handling of the information. Unfortunately it was not possible to see the Bishop as he was busy or away and his secretary was on holiday. The first population count and previous statistics for past decades are unknown. Similarly, there were no register books available at the Church. It is unknown if the revolution will affect the counting process.

- It is normal for people to be named neutral (i.e. not Christian or Muslim) names such as Ashraf and ‘Ādil (the number of people with these names is unknown) although the majority of people have clearly Christian names.

- Religion mistakes on ID cards classifying Christians as Muslim do happen, but Father Quzmān could not give an approximate number of how many and said that there is an option on the application form to say if you are Christian or not.

- There are no known conversions from Islam to Christianity or from Christianity to Islam.

- The following are details of family members of Christians in Jazeerat Sharona that were interviewed: Daughter of the Church servant, living in Cairo for past 6 years. Age 27. Husband (who works as a hospital accountant) moved there to work and she accompanied him. Brother of another Church servant, working in Beni Suef for 10 years. Age 55. Works in a tile factory. Has a diploma from school. Daughter of a retired translator, studying in Scotland.

- Many people were unwilling to give information about their relatives and did not wish to answer about financial support and education.

- It is hard to get work in the village so many people go looking for work further afield.

5. Interview with Father Yu’annis, a priest at the Church of the Lady Virgin in the village of Qufādah, part of the Diocese of Maghāghah, August 2011

As I stayed in Father Yu’annis' house with his family he knew about my research and was very willing to answer any questions openly and assist me in interviews with other people in Maghāghah. Without his assistance and diplomatic introductions for my interviews, I would have not been able to do this research as people would not have trusted me or have been willing

8 to see me. Not only did he agree to let me interview him as the priest of the Church of the Lady Virgin in Qufādah but he also provided a rough and approximate guide to the number of churches and priests in the diocese of Maghāghah (see the table in another file).

Father Yo'annis Father Yo'annis and family

Information provided by Father Yu’annis:

- The village of Qufādah is half an hour's drive West of Maghāghah and it is inhabited by 250 Christian families (each containing approximately five individuals = 1,250 people) and approximately 15,000 Muslims (individuals). Most of the population work in agriculture and trade with some civil servant jobs available. Only three or four Christians from the village go to university a year from Qufādah and study usually in Beni Suef or Menya and the majority of people get a diploma from school. There have been 27 priests in Qufādah since the Church was built in 1910. They have had no trouble obtaining permission for any building work as none has taken place recently. All Christians have a cross tattooed on their wrists or thumb and many wear large crosses around their necks.

- The Church of the Lady Virgin which was built in Qufādah has two priests: Father Yu’annis and his brother Father Mikhail. The whole community relies on the church in different ways: children spend most of the day there and can get cheap food or sometimes free food as well as free water and have a safe place to play since the church has large grounds that are walled in. Similarly the church provides a social focus for the community with most people gathering there in the evenings. Also, as mentioned above, the church can support families in financial difficulty.

- The Bishop's office in Maghāghah has never asked the Church in Qufādah to carry out any kind of counting or registration of the congregation or Christians in the village. The priests in the village there do know all the members of the Church by name, however, and from knowing their congregation well they believe they have a good idea of the demographics of the Christians there. Endeavors were made to meet with the Bishop in Maghāghah to pursue the topic of counting but he was away and his Secretary was on holiday. Thus all further questions about counting were met with the same answer (although please see other interviews regarding this matter).

9 - Some people give their children neutral names such as Ashraf and ‘Ādil but the majority are given obviously Christian names such as Mariam and Mikhail. The number of people with these neutral names is unknown and not counted.

- Mistakes on ID cards (i.e. someone being recorded as Muslim instead of Christian) are fairly common although Father Yu’annis could not give an estimate of the number. The Government only changes the religion of someone if their name can be clearly seen as a Christian name - otherwise people are automatically recorded as Muslim (including those with neutral names such as Ashraf and ‘Ādil). This mistake can be corrected by acquiring two stamps and papers from the Church and Bishop's office which are then taken to the local Governorate.

- There aren't any known converts from Islam to Christianity in the village, but 17 years ago there was a case of two brothers converting from Christianity to Islam in order to marry two girls that they fell in love with in Cairo. They now live married in Cairo and have no contact with the Church so are not available for interview.

- People do not fear any Government reprisal in national Census as being a Christian and writing so is normal.

- About 45 people from Qufādah are working in the Red Sea area doing labour jobs and tourism. The following are details of family members of Christians in Qufādah that were interviewed: Son of a Church servant, been in Cairo for a year. Age 20. Works in plastic production. Had an Uncle in Cairo before he arrived to help him. Returns every 3 months to Qufādah. Supports Church in Qufādah financially as well as attending Church in Cairo. Husband of a house wife, in Sharm el-Sheikh. Age 24. Works as a jewellery seller. Has a diploma from school. Returns every four months. Supports Church in Qufādah financially. Father of a school boy, working in Saudi Arabia for seven years. Age 50. Works as a secretary. Returns once a year. No school education. Continues supporting the Church in Qufādah financially. Husband of a house wife, working seven years in Jordan. Age 26. Returns every year and a half. Factory worker. Diploma from school. Supports Church financially in Qufādah. Three sons of a church servant who work around the Red Sea. Mete, age 40 who works in tourism and studied tourism at university. ‘Ādil, age 30, works in tourism and has a diploma from school. Mālik, age 35, is a police office who studied law at university. All are married, all around the Red Sea for a long time and all support the Church in Qufādah financially. Husband of a house wife, working 25 years in Cairo. Age 45. Works as the guard(of a Church). Returns every 2 months. No diploma from school.

- Father Yu’annis makes trips to Cairo when necessary/usually around ‘Īd al-Mīlād, Īd al-Qīyāmah and ‘Īd al-‘Adrā to collect money and donations from people who have migrated to Cairo. This money is given to the poor. Members of the Church in Qufādah who travel to Cairo, Alexandria, and the Red Sea or abroad are still very much considered a member of the Church as they maintain a strong relationship with their hometown and send money.

10 6. Interview with members of the Muslim Community in the village of Banī Walims, August 2011

I went to Banī Walims (which has a Christian and a Muslim community) to meet with members of the Muslim community (there were about six Muslims present) to ask the same questions as listed above to see if the same migration and counting patterns were present among the village's Muslim counterparts. Father Yu’annis arranged the appointment and came with me. At first the visit was quite tense but with the help of Father Yu’annis and his famous like-ability everyone became more casual. It was still very difficult to get concrete answers about almost anything but everyone was very hospitable and welcoming.

A son of Mahmoud Zayed, Mahmoud Zayed (brother of Professor Zayed at the University of Cairo), the author, Father Yo'annis, Professor Ahmed Zayed (not the Professor Ahmed Zayed from the University of Cairo), another son of Mahmoud Zayed.

- The mosque in Banī Walims has no counting process in place and as far they are aware a count has never been taken.

- People who migrate from Banī Walims usually return 5/6 times a year.

- Often what happens is one man will go to Saudi Arabia for example and when he comes back to visit he will take another man back to work with him and then another and then another etc.

- Before the revolution in Libya, 90% of the men who migrated for work were working on building sites in Libya.

11 - The most popular places for people to work are Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and the Emirates. People in the village have not heard of the residency "lottery" that the American Embassy puts on (which so many Christian families apply for).

- People in the village and those who have migrated do give money to the mosque or support it financially but only if they are asked for it. It is not a regular or expected thing like in the Churches.

- There are no conversions from Islam to Christianity or from Christianity to Islam.

- The following are details of family members of Muslims in Banī Walims that were interviewed: Brother of a Professor, 15 years in Cairo working at a hotel. Age 40. Has a diploma from school. Cousin (female) of a professor, has been studying in Cairo for six year for a Master’s. Age 27. Brother of a retired man who used to own a shop, working for the past 17 years in an office to do with taxes. Age 45. Has a diploma from school.

7. Interview with Muslim Migrant from Banī Walims, August 2011

I interviewed a Muslim migrant from Banī Walims who now lives in Cairo. He provided a lot of interesting and extra information on the Census and the village of Banī Walims.

- Money given to Churches/Mosques will then be spent in the marketplace among Muslims and Copts alike (particularly since certain areas of the market are dominated by one particular religious group i.e. in Menya most of the wood and gold trade is run by Copts and other areas run by Muslims so money sent back doesn't just affect one group).

- It would be almost impossible to get the religious question results for the 1996 census if they are not written in the book at CAPMAS. Perhaps instead finding a survey that has sampled the population in each area.

- The census information is completely unreliable as the papers are handed over to local officials who often do not even go to households to gather information, they just fill it out themselves. Apparently 30 years ago some local teachers were responsible for administrating the census in Banī Walims and they inflated all the figures so that the town would seem large enough for the government to provide electricity (as the town did not have any electricity). Similarly, after living in the same house since 1988 and residents claim never to have been asked to fill out a form or seen someone come with a census pamphlet/papers apart from the last census (2006) when someone inquired about how many people lived in certain houses. As a result of these inaccuracies, perhaps it is better to use qualitative analysis instead of quantitative analysis.

- People are aware of inaccuracies such as these and thus are very distrusting of Government figures and have always been of any Government itself (as Egyptians always have been given the historic doubts and distrust between peasants and their rulers be them Pharaonic, colonial or modern dictators). This mistrust naturally also affects research in the countryside as a

12 foreigner who comes from a formerly colonial ruling country and from a big city such as Cairo and so it takes time for the local people to trust a researcher and get information in a subtle and indirect way. Anyone doing research in these areas should stay for well over a month, maybe even two, to gain the trust of the local people.

- Since the revolution Governments proceedings and processes have been interrupted so who knows when the next census will be and how the counting process will be affected. It is too early to tell especially with the constant reshuffling of Government

- The Muslims in the governorate of Menya are generally poorer than the Copts and that migration for work abroad (mostly Muslims to Saudi Arabia for instance from Banī Walims) is equally as persistent among the Muslims as the Copts. In answer to my research that suggested that more Muslims leave the area around Maghāghah to go to University than Copts and that Muslims have a higher level of education in the villages, Muslims from Banī Walims disagreed as there are scholarship awards every year for 12-14 school children from Banī Walims and 2-4 of these children are always Copts which is roughly proportional to the population figured there. Also the number of 20-25 was given as the rough number of students who go to university each year from Banī Walims.

- According to the inhabitants, the population of Banī Walims has nearly trebled in the last 20-30 years since the landscape between city and village has changed. Now villages have the same technology and lifestyle options as the big cities so people migrate to Cairo and other places/countries for the higher wages only.

8. Interview in Cairo with Ibrahim, a Christian Migrant from Maghāghah, August 2011

I managed to track down someone working in Cairo who moved from the village of Dayr al-Gārnūs in the Diocese of Maghāghah. He was unable to put me in touch with other migrants from the Maghāghah area.

- Ibrāhīm was born in Dayr al-Gārnūs. He is 20 years old and did not get a diploma from school. His father brought him to Cairo when he was two years old to stay with him while he worked and for the past few years Ibrāhīm has been working as a cleaner. His father gives money to the Church in Cairo.

9. Interview with Shenouda, a Christian Migrant from Menya to Sharm el-Sheikh

While I was in Sharm el-Sheikh as a tourist, I had the fortune to meet a Copt from Menya who was working as a salesman for a tourism company. I didn't have my notebook on me or my questions but I told him about my research and he gave me some very interesting information about Church building in his village (I did not get the name of the village).

- The Church were Shenouda grew up was forbidden from building or expanding by the Governorate, even re-doing the bathroom facilities. To get around this, people would fix the toilets and do building work in the middle of the night when the village was asleep and no-one could see the workmen.

13 - As well as fixing the bathrooms under cover of night, the Church also built upwards little by little to create extra room without drawing attention to the Church and thus successfully managed to subtly expand despite not having permission from the Governorate.

10. List of Churches and Priests in the Diocese of Maghāghah

This information has been provided by Father Yu’annis, one of the Priests from the Church of the Virgin Mary in Qufādah in the Diocese of Maghāghah. The number of families for Christians and Muslims are based on Father Yu’annis' own experience of the villages around Maghāghah and are very rough estimates. To the best of his knowledge, all the information about the priests are accurate except that three priests are missing off the list as there are meant to be 75 priests but in these lists there are only 72 (Father Yu’annis could not remember their names or the Church to which they belong). This number of 75 is based on what Father Yu’annis has been told by other priests. Father Yu’annis could not give the exact location of the Churches but he could tell whether they were East or West and the time it takes by car to drive to them from Maghāghah.

Number Name of Church and Distance from of Priests Number of Christian Number of Muslim Total Number of Names of Priests at Church: Village: Maghāghah by car: at Families: Families: Families in the Village: Church: Church of the Virgin in Father Ibrāhīm al-Kum al-Akhdar 15 minutes West 3 Father Iruweis 1,800 300 2,100 Father ‘Abd al-Masīh Church of Mari Girgis in Bil Hasa 20 minutes West 1 Father Shenouda Mūsá 200 7,000 7,200

Church of Mari Marcos in Nazalit ‘Asr 1 hour West 1 Father Marqus Lamlūm 200 500 700

Church of the Virgin in Banī Walims 1 hour West 1 Father Stephanus 200 700 900

Church of the Virgin in al-Zūrah 1 hour West 1 Father Dāwūd Meter 100 600 700

Church of the Virgin in Father Shenouda Dayr al-Gārnūs 1 hour West 3 Father Ya'qūb 2,000 0 2,000 Father Mifrih Church of the Virgin in Father Abirdaraus 1 hour West 2 200 10,000 10,200 Abā al-Bilād Father Elia Ishaq

14 Church of the Virgin in Father Yu’annis Qufādah 30 minutes West 2 250 1,500 1,750 Father Mikhail Church of the Virgin in al-‘Abasīyah 20 minutes West 1 Father Bishūy Ibrāhīm 200 600 800

Church of Mari Marcos in Father Marcos Abat Sharona 25 minutes West 3 Father Simian 300 1,500 1,800 Father Salīb Church of Mari Girgis in Father Rufail Sheikh Zayāt 10 minutes West 2 200 3,000 3,200 Father Abānūb Church of the Virgin in Bar 1hour and 30 Mashā 1 Father Athanasius 100 700 800 minutes West Church of the Virgin in Father Daniel 1 hour an 30 minutes ash-Sheikh Mas’ūd 3 Father Nina 250 400 650 West Father Mousaya Church of the Virgin in al-‘Adwah 30 minutes West 1 Father Yūhannā 100 7,000 7,100

Church of al-Anbs Father Iskandar al-Nūwayr in ‘Izbit Rizq 30 minutes West 2 300 50 350 Father Ifrahil Church of Mari Girgis in 1 hours and 30 Father Wīsā 'Izbit Ghatās 2 200 500 700 minutes West Father Akmnūkh Church of Mari Girgis in Tan Bīdī 30 minutes West 1 Father Basīt Jamāl 250 4,000 4,250

Church of Mari Girgis in Father Yasá Yūhannā Ishnīn al-Nasārá 30 minutes West 3 Father Mohaniya 500 700 1,200 Father Suleiman Church of al-Malāk Mikhail in Thuhurūt 30 minutes West 1 Father Maximus 200 5,000 5,200

Father Samuel Girgis Church of Mari Girgis in Father Asani Maghāghah in Maghāghah 5 Father Azara 2,000 5,000 7,000 (al-Mutrānīyah) Father Butrus Father Tomas

15 Father Meta Morgan Father Birnābā Ishaq Church of the Virgin in (included in the figures (included in the figures (included in the figures Father Sarabamoa Maghāghah in Maghāghah 6 above for the whole of above for the whole of above for the whole of Father Būlus Malāk Maghāghah) Maghāghah) Maghāghah) Father Shenouda Father Yustus Church of al-Malāk Father Hithra (included in the figures (included in the figures (included in the figures Mikhail in Maghāghah in Maghāghah 3 Father Bola above for the whole of above for the whole of above for the whole of Father Gwargius Maghāghah) Maghāghah) Maghāghah) Church of al-Qidīsah Father Aghāthūn (included in the figures (included in the figures (included in the figures Dimyānah in Maghāghah in Maghāghah 3 Father Ibrāhīm above for the whole of above for the whole of above for the whole of Father Nukas Maghāghah) Maghāghah) Maghāghah) Father Quzmān Father Yasá Church of Mari Girgis in Father Hizqyal Jazeerat Sharona 1 hours East 7 Father Kyrillos 21,000 7,000 28,000 Father Angelius Father Bishay Father Bakhoum Church of al-Malāk Father Dimyān Yūhannā Mikhail in Sharona 1 hour West 2 3,000 1,500 4,500 Father Yūsuf Church of the Virgin in 1 hour and 30 Father Ayūb Zawyat al-Gidānī 2 200 5,000 5,200 minutes West Father Gibrael Church of Mari Girgis in Safānīyah 1 hour West 1 Father Antonius Shafīq 150 15,000 15,150

Church of al-Bābā Kyrillos (included in the figures (included in the figures (included in the figures Father Habīb Girgis in Maghāghah in Maghāghah 2 above for the whole of above for the whole of above for the whole of Father Ermiah Maghāghah) Maghāghah) Maghāghah) Church of the Virgin in Father Philobus ‘Izbit al-Sayīdah 30 minutes West 2 200 0 200 Father Ishaq Church of al-Shahīd Stephanus in al-Madāwir 20 minutes West 1 Father Makār 70 3,000 3,700

Church of al-Malāk Mikhail in 'Izbit Ramādah 45 minutes West 1 Father 'Abd al-Masīh 250 3,000 3,250

Church of the Virgin in 45 minutes West 1 Father Bishārah 70 1,500 1,570 al-Sāwī

16 Church of al-Bābā Kyrillos in Shams al-Dīn 45 minutes West 1 Father Yūnān 100 3,000 3,100

Church of al-Malāk 1 hour West 1 Father Barsūm 70 300 370 Mikhail in ‘Izbit Ishāq

11. Behavioural and Cultural Notes on Field Research

Since I encountered common difficulties that researchers may comes across - I thought I should write some observational notes that may benefit future researchers who go to the area.

1. People in Upper Egypt can be very distrusting of a foreigner who just arrives in the area and suddenly starts asking questions about Coptic issues. Even just asking about immigration or if anyone has a family member in Cairo can cause people to become upset and similarly asking for details about these family members (such as age, sex, education level) may be met with distrust. Even more sensitive issues such as conversions, religion mistakes on ID cards etc are likely to be the cause of friction and heated conversation. Therefore it is very important to stress the need to explain what you are doing in the area and talk about your research before you attempt to ask any questions. People in Egypt are very hospitable and when you arrive to interview someone you will most likely be served drinks and light conversation ( the art of conversation is extremely important during these tea sessions as the way you are perceived and the good, intelligent and witty conversation you provide that should also involve flattery of your host and the village may affect their willingness to answer your questions) will be expected for a long time before you can get to a comfortable and amicable level of trust to approach your host with research questions. In fact, it is advisable to stay in the area that you will be researching for over a month to gain the trust and friendship of the local people. Before you ask a particularly sensitive question, try to explain your reasons to lead up to the question: for example, if I want to ask a Copt if his brother in Cairo sends money to the church in Maghāghah I would first say something like "I would like to know if your brother maintains a strong relationship still with the church here....he must miss his family and the church here...... does he help the church here because he feels it is his home still and visit often? Perhaps he sends money or comes back to pray?" If ever you think people are becoming upset, drop the subject and move on. Try to make as many jokes as possible, everyone in Egypt has a great sense of humor and laughter is always a great tool for diffusing a sensitive topic. Also, always smile. If no-one else is smiling and you start smiling, they will definitely smile back and it will relieve any awkwardness. Also, you may have to accept that despite your diplomatic attempts, some people will simply just refuse to answer a question or provide any information - so just move on to another subject. I certainly encountered difficulties with people not willing to answer questions.

2. It wouldn't have been impossible for me to carry out the research in Maghāghah without Father Yu’annis - having someone in the church who trusted me (because he trusts Kees) and was willing to support me and introduce me to all the people I wanted to interview provided a kind of secure and acceptable environment for me to ask questions in - as obviously all the

17 other priests know and trust Father Yu’annis. Equally, Father Yu’annis himself is an incredibly diplomatic and open person who knows exactly what to say and how to say it to build relations with anyone he meets and thus when he introduced me to people he would do so with lots of information about me and my family, tell them about what else I have done in Egypt and create a very casual atmosphere. It is so important to have a contact like Father Yu’annis in an area such as Maghāghah and I am completely indebted to him for all his help. If anyone does any research outside Maghāghah, I would highly recommend kindly asking if Father Yu’annis could introduce you to that diocese or making a contact there yourself and building up a relationship of trust with them before doing your research.

3. While I was in Maghāghah I lived in Father Yu’annis' house with his wife and his two adult children who were limitlessly hospitable and generous. As a young unmarried female guest in his house, there were obviously cultural and traditional customs to take into consideration. For example, you must dress conservatively even in the house (also when you go to bed) where you are staying (it can be difficult sometimes to tell the Copts and Muslims apart in Maghāghah as women from both groups usually cover their heads, wear similar galābīyahs and have very little flesh on show) and keep an appropriate distance from the opposite sex. Your host is responsible for your safety and will feel it necessary to accompany you at all times, in fact it is likely that since the women tend to stay in the home that if your host does not take you out with him you will be expected to stay in the home and not go wondering off on your own in the town. Hospitality is also taken very seriously in Upper Egypt and while you may wish to get a glass of water yourself or wish to assist in washing the dishes after a meal, you will not be allowed to and it is not worth arguing over - part of the hospitality process is fussing over the guest. Similarly, it is very rude not to eat all or almost all of the food that is put in front of you (do also tell your host how delicious everything is) - protesting that you are full will not do. It is fine to tell your host that you do not eat certain things (they like to cook things that they know you will like!) but you may insult them if you eat only a few mouthfuls of a food that is expensive in Maghāghah and that they have prepared especially for you. I drank the local water in Maghāghah and had no illnesses - the local water is unavoidable anyway as everything is washed in it (and remember that you will be expected to take turns drinking water out of the same glass as your host). If you need anything, or want to know how to do something just ask. People are also very direct and may comment on your physical appearance or talk about you in front of you, this is normal and will never be done in an unkind way. Bathroom facilities and sleeping arrangements will vary depending on where you are staying - it is quite normal for you to sleep in the same room as your host's daughter (if you're a girl) or son (if you're a boy). In Upper Egypt there is less consideration given towards personal privacy and the family will spend most of their time in the sitting room and only go into the bedroom to sleep so if you go into the bedroom to read for example, you are sending out a clear message that you want some privacy and to be alone. It is also unlikely that there will be air conditioning in the place you are staying (there may be fans though) and mosquito repellant is an absolute necessity.

4. Don't worry if you ask to meet people, are told that you will see them tomorrow and then no meeting takes place. Life in Upper Egypt isn't kept to such a tight timetable as in Cairo as many things come up and particularly with church officials they could be called away for various reasons and may have other meetings/visits that over run. That's another reason why it is good to stay a month or two because then you will have enough time to see everyone that you need to see and follow up on leads.

5. Transport to and from Upper Egypt can turn into a bit of a mission if it's your first time finding platforms and buying tickets (always ask an official which platform the train is coming

18 from, not another passenger). If it is your first time, I would suggest taking an Egyptian friend with you and the person in the ticket office may tell you that there are no seats on the train until you give them a bit of money as a tip. Similarly trains may be delayed for two hours or longer so don't make the mistake of planning any appointments or interviews around your travel plans.

12. Review of Elizabeth Edward’s “Coptic Orthodox Statistics and Migration in Maghāghah.”

Cornelis Hulsman, August 29, 2011Elizabeth Edwards studied Arabic at the University of Exeter (2008-2012), Spanish, Politics, Religious Studies, Philosophy and Ethics at Canford School (2003-2008). I also corresponded with Elizabeth prior to her arrival in Egypt and, based on this, believed she had the background for a brief independent research in Upper Egypt which turned out to be true. The subject of local church statistics and migration was chosen because of the reported large migration from Upper Egypt to Cairo and other major cities. Elizabeth was not the only student to work on this subject. There were others and together they developed the questionnaire as listed in her paper. I do see this work as a succession to work carried out by Italian intern Maria Rezzonico in 2007 which resulted in her HYPERLINK "http://www.arabwestreport.info/year-2007/week-35/2-report-church-response-poverty-egypt " \o "2. Report on church response to poverty in Egypt" Report on church response to poverty in Egypt, AWR 2007, week 35, art. 2, HYPERLINK "http://www.arabwestreport.info/year-2007/week-35/2-report-church-response-poverty-egypt " http://www.arabwestreport.info/year-2007/week-35/2-report-church-response-poverty-egypt. Also with poverty the question of statistics is important. What number of the poor are bishops responsible to provide care for? Thus Elizabeth first looked at the electronic files Maria Rezzonico had collected, since with the question of migration the issue of statistics is of key importance also.After Elizabeth had familiarized herself she went for one week to stay with father Yu’annis in Maghāghah. Father Yu’annis knows no English and going here meant that Elizabeth had to use her Arabic. Maghāghah is an area which is rarely visited by non-Egyptians, it meant that Elizabeth had to adapt to a very conservative and different culture from that of her own. She did so remarkably well. Father Yu’annis provided me with feedback that she was a very pleasant guest who did not violate major cultural norms as they are prevalent in this area. Elizabeth ended her paper with a section on “Behavioural and Cultural Notes on Field Research,” which is a good read for any student who would like to do research in Upper Egypt.After Elizabeth returned to Cairo she interviewed a few migrants from this part of Egypt who are now living in Cairo and she worked on her report. Unfortunately she did not have the statistics of the CAPMAS (the Egyptian statistical office) at her disposal which would show the number of Christians in individual villages over different censuses which should have shown possibly large differences and would have indicated substantial migration and thus have helped her asking questions in the area. But this could be a project for a next student intern who, of course, also would need to know Arabic.The conclusion to be drawn from the experience with Elizabeth is that it would be impossible for a student to go to Upper Egypt without being properly introduced to local people. Father Yu’annis personally took Elizabeth to different villages and introduced her to priests of these villages and sometimes despite such an excellent introduction even some priests remained suspicious about a foreigner asking questions that in their opinion were sensitive. Elizabeth did the right thing by simply reducing the questions once she noticed this. She, nevertheless, came up with interesting findings:The counts of Christians are coordinated by the Bishop’s office. There is no set rule for how frequently these

19 counts are carried out, they just happen when the Bishop's office ask for one. It also seems that this is not done systematically in all villages at the same time. The bishop’s office, for example, has never asked the Church in Qufādah to carry out any kind of counting or registration of the congregation or Christians in the village.Migrants from the area are still counted as belonging to the churches they came from. It is therefore extremely hard to come up with concrete figures about the number of migrants in a particular period.Interestingly only Christians were well aware of the American “lottery” through which people could obtain an immigration visa to the US. Muslims interviewed did not know but this does not mean that Muslims could not make use of this but simply that the knowledge of this method of emigration seems to be better known to Christians then to Muslims in the area. Conversions and mistakes in the government providing ID’s with the correct religious identity of the person concerned do happen but the interviews do not indicate that these numbers are very high. The interview was extremely interesting with a Muslim migrant in Cairo, a man whom I personally know, who was extremely skeptical about the accuracy of government population censuses in the area. Elizabeth’s work shows she has made very good use of the short time she was in Egypt, showed a good ability to conduct individual research through which she received interesting data that I hope other students will be able to build on for their work in Egypt.

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