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With Professor Sebastiano Maffettone interview INTERVIEW with Professor Sebastiano Maffettone Sebastiano Maffettone is a philosopher and is Pro- fessor of Political Philosophy at the Roman Univer- sity LUISS, where he is Dean of the Faculty of Poli- tical Science. Director of the Center for Ethics and Global Politics, he was a visiting professor at the Harvard University, where he taught Public Ethics. He has also taught at Columbia University, Tufts, Boston College, University of Pennsylvania, New Delhi, University of London and political sciences (Paris). He has published many essays; translated and disseminated in Italy the work of the American philosopher, John Rawls, theorist of the 'realistic Utopia'. He was the first President of the Italian So- ciety of Political Philosophy, founder and present director of the review 'Filosofia e Questioni Pubbli- che' (Philosophy & Public Questions). He coopera- tes with various newspapers, among which 'Il Mat- tino', 'Il Corriere della Sera' 'Il Sole 24 ore' and 'Pa- norama'. Sebastiano Maffettone is a philosopher, professor of political philosophy, born and graduated in Naples, with an international education and teaching experience in the most important American and European universities. With simplicity, effectiveness and that subtle sense of humour, rich in irony and Neapolitan wisdom, he answers the questions of Gnosis on the social subjects nearest to the realities tied to security, to uncertainness and to the cultural and economic evolutions of our day. 3 interview You are a professor of political philosophy …. today as never before there seem to be two antithetical realities, is this true? Seemingly, they are two distant realities, two parallel paths that meet, especially, in moments of crisis and suffering. For example, historically, Ari- stotle and Plato write at the end of the Athenian democracy and Kant after the French revolution. The interesting point is that it seems almost as if there is a correspondence between moments of crisis and development of philosophical thought … if this is true, now could be one of the right moments why philosophy and poli- tics can converge. In the last fifty years, the two realities have met at least once - with Rawls' theory of justice - which insofar as he was, above all, a theoretical philosopher who classified certain aspects of the political democracy as a social contract, probably he was far-seeing; it is no coincidence that the last Manual of politi- cal philosophy by Rawls, first section, first chapter, is entitled 'The era of Rawls'. Perhaps, today, there is a need of this synergy to provide vital new li- feblood to render the political institutions more believable and reliable. Why do politics appear to have ceded primacy to the economy, and not only in Italy? The path is ancient …. the true fact is that politics and economy, in sub- stance, are not two different things, even though operating in different ambits, they are very similar worlds and mechanisms. For example, let us take the ty- pe of instruments of the two concepts: in both cases, in the democracy and in the market, preferences are expressed and balances are obtained. The supporting structures of the society: economy and market, politics and democracy are very similar. Keeping in mind the fact that one cannot ge- neralize in abstract, one cannot prescind from the material conditions of life and, therefore, also ethics, i.e. what is right, above all, for the society, one can- not set aside the subsistence, that minimum of well-being common to the citi- zens, otherwise everything becomes abstraction. What should be avoided in the binomial 'politics and economy' is that the one does not condition too much the other: there must not be variations of ba- lance pushed too much one way or the other to diminish the excesses that are able to provoke socially significant phenomena, such as the tendency to the disappearance of the middle class. In these periods of long stagnation and then recession, do we run the risk of losing identity, the sense of belonging to a social level? Certainly there is the risk of losing much. In the United States, which is a paradigmatic Country, there has been a strong bipolarization: the rich classes have been little affected by the taxation and the poor have been left to fend for 4 interview themselves; the middle class - which was the strength of America - is disap- pearing. The disappearance of the middle class weighs heavily also on the economy and on the industrial growth because it is the class that ensures stan- dard and regular consumption, which keeps the shopping centers and super- markets on their feet. The real problem of the identity crisis which has, for now, hit only the Uni- ted States, but which can spread to other Countries - including ours - is the feeling of loss of confidence in oneself, together with the perception that the global changes will make the retrieval of a winning identity more and more difficult. Has the new poverty, the atrophy of the middle class, and the greater precariousness increased forms of aggressiveness? In Italy, I do not see this risk, at least for the moment. The indexes of crimi- nality are basically stable … certainly if the economic situation should deterio- rate further, and for a long time, multiplying the risks of poverty, it is possible that forms of social aggressiveness will occur, dictated by the basic necessities of survival. Does a public ethic still exist? The public ethic exists and is in crisis, I am aware of this by being in con- stant contact with the young people. In the young the confidence in the future is diminished and, in particular, the awareness that by simply studying and committing oneself is not sufficient to obtain professional and social success. They think that without the inevitable support of a recommendation - which, in their opinion is, at times more effective than a degree - their commitment is simply an unobtainable utopia. This is a self-destructive mechanism because if there is no commitment to create this merit for oneself, there will be this absolute need of support in the future and, therefore, it becomes almost a self-fulfilling prediction. Is ideology dead or is it only in a long sleep? The pure ideology, in the Marxist sense, believes that ideas are not neutral or natural, but are conditioned by the relationships between the classes. The- refore, it is better to have ideas; ideology is blind to changes, blind to history, it is a rubber wall, therefore, it is certainly better to have ideas and seek to ap- ply them in history, it is better to separate ideas from ideology and continue to think … the risk is that one no longer thinks enough or one is hampered by complicated bureaucratic procedures which takes time away from thinking, the elaboration of ideas and research. 5 interview How has the working world changed without the concept of 'the permanent job' and with a particular conception of 'labour mobility'? They create confusion, fear and uncertainty. One of the components of dif- ficulty is also the lack of security parameters for other types of impermanent work. There is not adequate protection for social security, no greater economic incentives or, strong 'parachutes'. If the usual security parameters are lacking, often the prerequisites for building an independent life are also absent, such as the acquisition of a house, the signing of a mortgage and the provision for a family.It is necessary, however, to get used to the disappearance of the tradi- tional permanent job, and to this end, increase the safeguards for the citizen, adapting also the guarantee requests of the banks to the new typologies of work and paying a little more to those who work constantly in precarious im- permanent positions. What do you think of the university formation and career guidance for the young? Negli Atenei è basilare lo studio, non credo sia necessaria una imposta- zione pragmatica. Nelle Università della pragmatica America – dove ho inse- gnato per anni – la ricerca filosofica è considerata molto importante, senza astrazione non c’è creatività. Nei Paesi più poveri e più veramente pragmati- ci si studia prevalentemente per diventare ingegneri e medici, i Paesi più ric- chi possono consentirsi aree più speculative per creare filosofi, letterati e arti- sti. Quello che può essere utile per incrementare l’apertura mentale è una fa- se di studio all’estero – per esempio l’Erasmus – badando sempre a non to- gliere l’aspetto di ‘sacralità’ degli studi e dell’istruzione. All’Università si de- ve studiare perché se si studia bene il lavoro si può apprendere con maggiore facilità. Is the street protest more fragmented due to the virtual debate of Internet or to the lack of leadership and aggregating charisma? Certainly, we are in a moment of lack of charisma and as Hegel - a great philosopher - said, the essence of politics is mediation: it is just this mediation that has been cancelled in two senses; on the one side, there are no longer fil- ters because each person speaks directly with another, the relationship is on a one to one basis, both in the real world and, even more, in the world of Inter- net, with the various Facebooks and Twitters. Then there is a problem tied to the not very high level of competence of the eventual leaders and to the relia- bility of the world of the parties. In short, the liability is lacking - that which contributed to create mediation and communication now remains entrusted to the informatics instruments and, above all, to the cell-phone - with which one speaks, one chats, one twitters and one shares without ever really entering into contact.
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