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Official Report of Debates (Hansard) Journal Des Débats Legislative Assemblée Assembly législative of Ontario de l’Ontario Official Report Journal of Debates des débats (Hansard) (Hansard) SP-6 SP-6 Standing Committee on Comité permanent de Social Policy la politique sociale Green Energy Repeal Act, 2018 Loi de 2018 abrogeant la Loi sur l’énergie verte 1st Session 1re session 42nd Parliament 42e législature Tuesday 30 October 2018 Mardi 30 octobre 2018 Chair: Nina Tangri Présidente : Nina Tangri Clerk: Eric Rennie Greffier : Eric Rennie Hansard on the Internet Le Journal des débats sur Internet Hansard and other documents of the Legislative Assembly L’adresse pour faire paraître sur votre ordinateur personnel can be on your personal computer within hours after each le Journal et d’autres documents de l’Assemblée législative sitting. The address is: en quelques heures seulement après la séance est : https://www.ola.org/ Index inquiries Renseignements sur l’index Reference to a cumulative index of previous issues may be Adressez vos questions portant sur des numéros précédents obtained by calling the Hansard Reporting Service indexing du Journal des débats au personnel de l’index, qui vous staff at 416-325-7400. fourniront des références aux pages dans l’index cumulatif, en composant le 416-325-7400. Hansard Reporting and Interpretation Services Service du Journal des débats et d’interprétation Room 500, West Wing, Legislative Building Salle 500, aile ouest, Édifice du Parlement 111 Wellesley Street West, Queen’s Park 111, rue Wellesley ouest, Queen’s Park Toronto ON M7A 1A2 Toronto ON M7A 1A2 Telephone 416-325-7400; fax 416-325-7430 Téléphone, 416-325-7400; télécopieur, 416-325-7430 Published by the Legislative Assembly of Ontario Publié par l’Assemblée législative de l’Ontario ISSN 1710-9477 CONTENTS Tuesday 30 October 2018 Green Energy Repeal Act, 2018, Bill 34, Mr. Rickford / Loi de 2018 abrogeant la Loi sur l’énergie verte, projet de loi 34, M. Rickford ..................................................................... SP-125 David Suzuki Foundation .................................................................................................. SP-125 Mr. Gideon Forman Registered Nurses’ Association of Ontario ....................................................................... SP-128 Ms. Hilda Swirsky Mr. Kim Jarvi North American Platform Against Wind Power ............................................................... SP-131 Ms. Sherri Lange Ottawa Renewable Energy Co-operative .......................................................................... SP-134 Ms. Janice Ashworth Mr. Bruce Pardy ................................................................................................................ SP-137 Association of Municipalities of Ontario .......................................................................... SP-140 Ms. Lynn Dollin Mr. Rainer Pethke ............................................................................................................. SP-142 Canadian Solar Industries Association .............................................................................. SP-145 Mr. Wes Johnston Ontario Real Estate Association ........................................................................................ SP-148 Mr. Steve Kotan Mr. Matthew Thornton SP-125 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO STANDING COMMITTEE ON COMITÉ PERMANENT DE SOCIAL POLICY LA POLITIQUE SOCIALE Tuesday 30 October 2018 Mardi 30 octobre 2018 The committee met at 1500 in committee room 1. in Growth, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development writes, “Since 2010, 50% of private GREEN ENERGY REPEAL ACT, 2018 finance in infrastructure (USD $1.3 trillion) has been directed to renewable energy.” So from 2010 to 2017, fully LOI DE 2018 ABROGEANT half of all private finance in infrastructure, $1.3 trillion LA LOI SUR L’ÉNERGIE VERTE US, was targeted at renewables. Consideration of the following bill: That’s a staggering sum of money. And to reiterate, that Bill 34, An Act to repeal the Green Energy Act, 2009 statistic doesn’t come from environmentalists; it comes and to amend the Electricity Act, 1998, the Environmental from the OECD. Clearly, renewables are of great interest Protection Act, the Planning Act and various other to the private sector, but with this bill the province is statutes / Projet de loi 34, Loi abrogeant la Loi de 2009 sur saying, in effect, we don’t want this investment in Ontario. l’énergie verte et modifiant la Loi de 1998 sur l’électricité, If a private wind developer or a solar company has a la Loi sur la protection de l’environnement, la Loi sur choice between, say, Ontario and Texas, this bill invites l’aménagement du territoire et diverses autres lois. them to invest in Texas. If Bill 34 passes, Ontario will turn The Chair (Mrs. Nina Tangri): Good afternoon, its back on the massive economic stimulus that the clean everyone. We are meeting today for public hearings on energy sector can bring. Bill 34, An Act to repeal the Green Energy Act, 2009 and Secondly, by standing in the way of renewables’ adop- to amend the Electricity Act, 1998, the Environmental tion, this bill rejects an energy source that’s easy on Protection Act, the Planning Act and various other Ontarians’ wallets. The province’s Environmental Com- statutes. missioner tells us that, “Going forward, nuclear costs will Pursuant to the order of the House, dated October 24, rise and solar and wind power costs will fall.” 2018, each witness will receive up to 10 minutes for their The OECD report I just mentioned says, “Solar PV presentation, followed by up to 10 minutes of questioning costs have declined by about 80% in leading markets since from the committee, divided equally amongst the recog- 2010.” A 2017 article in the prestigious journal, Science, nized parties. Are there any questions before we begin? reminds us that from 2008 to 2015 in the US, the cost of wind power dropped 41% while the cost of utility scale photovoltaics went down 64%. Here in Ontario, the cost DAVID SUZUKI FOUNDATION of solar fell 55% from 2012 to 2016. That’s a cost The Chair (Mrs. Nina Tangri): Seeing none, I’d like reduction of more than half in just four years. Bloomberg to call our first witness, the David Suzuki Foundation, and New Energy Finance says, “The lifetime cost of wind and if you can please introduce yourself for the record. solar is less than the cost of building new fossil fuel Mr. Gideon Forman: Thank you, Madam Chair and plants.” And a 2016 research paper from Goldman Sachs members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to concludes, “Wind provides the lowest-cost source of new speak this afternoon. As mentioned, I am with the David capacity.” Suzuki Foundation. My name is Gideon Forman, and I’m So leading business experts—and, Madam Chair, I a climate change policy analyst with the foundation. stress these are business leaders—suggest investing in re- In my brief remarks today, I’d like to say a few words newables is just common sense, especially since renew- about the overall thrust of Bill 34 and why we believe it is ables’ cost to consumers is dropping dramatically. harmful to the people of Ontario. This bill and the Renewables don’t create pollution but they do create a cancellation of some 750 renewable energy contracts will lot of employment. In my role as a policy analyst, I’ve had (1) deter investment in the province, (2) deprive Ontarians the privilege of talking to Ontarians working in the of low-cost electricity sources and (3) kill local jobs. renewables sector across the province and I’ve seen how First, let’s talk briefly about investment. Globally, solar and wind projects generate good jobs. renewable energy is now an enormous sector. How big is For example, a new 44-megawatt solar project in it? In 2015, twice as much international capital—twice as Nanticoke will create construction and maintenance jobs much—was invested in clean energy as in fossil fuels. In for members of the Six Nations, and I think we can all a 2017 publication entitled Investing in Climate, Investing agree that this is vitally important in a community like the SP-126 STANDING COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL POLICY 30 OCTOBER 2018 Six Nations, where unemployment—which stands at Mr. Gideon Forman: That’s right. We made a point of about 25%—is at crisis levels. really looking at what the business community was saying I’ve spoken with developers of the Sundance solar in this. That’s why we looked at the OECD, we looked at project in Timiskaming. They tell me that the project is Bloomberg New Energy Finance and we looked at helping to create a renewable energy workforce in the Goldman Sachs: We really wanted to see what the busi- north. A part of the province that formerly had little solar ness community was saying. Repeatedly, in the research energy expertise is now gaining it, with obvious benefits we did, time and time again, they were saying how cost- for the job market. effective renewables are. I’ve spoken with developers at the Gunn’s Hill Wind Mr. Peter Tabuns: So does it make sense for Ontario Farm in Oxford county. This project produces enough to close the door to a source of electricity generation that electricity to power some 7,000 homes and employs local has dropped and will continue to drop? people in construction and maintenance of the windmills. Mr. Gideon Forman: Not at all. It just doesn’t make I could go on. But the point is, renewables are creating any business sense at all, in our view. jobs across the province, including in First Nations
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