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™ Adults only! Adults A TwoMorrows Publication No. 5, Spring 2014 2 0 4 3 7 0 7 9 8 5 6 2 8 $8.95

1 in the USA Cover art by THE COMIX LIFE OF DENIS KITCHEN Spring 2014 • The New Voice of the Medium • Number 5 table of contents

HIPPIE W©©dy Ye Ed’s Rant: Talking up Kitchen, Wild Bill, Cruse, and upcoming CBC changes...... 2 CBC mascot by J.D. King ©2014 J.D. King. Comics Chatter About Our : The is slaving for his monthly Minimum Wage...... 3 Cover Incoming: and CBC’s editor take a sound thrashing from readers...... 8 Art by Denis Kitchen The Good Stuff: Jorge Khoury on artist Espinosa’s latest triumph...... 12 Color by Br yant Paul Hembeck’s Dateline: Our Man Fred recalls his Kitchen Sink contributions...... 14 Johnson Coming Soon in CBC: , Cartoonist Announcement that Ye Ed’s comprehensive talk with the 2014 MOCCA guest of honor and award-winning author of will be coming this fall...... 15 REmembering Wild BILL EVERETT The Last Splash: Blake Bell traces the final, glorious years of Bill Everett and the man’s exquisite final run on Sub-Mariner in a poignant, sober crescendo of life...... 16 Fish Stories: Separating the facts from myth regarding William Blake Everett...... 23 Cowan Considered: Part two of ’s interview with on the man’s years in cartoon animation and a triumphant return to comics...... 24

Art ©2014 Denis Kitchen. Dr. Wertham’s Sloppy Seduction: Prof. Carol L. Tilley discusses her findings of Denis Kitchen included three shoddy research and falsified evidence inSeduction of the Innocent, the notorious in-jokes on our cover that his observant close friends might book that almost took down the entire industry...... 28 recognize, but Ye Ed has no prob- lem revealing. First, while many SPECIAL DENIS KITCHEN SECTION hats may be an apt for his career, in fact Denis never, The Life of Denis Kitchen: An exhaustive interview with ever actually wears a real hat. Never. Second, his demure as- pioneer Denis Kitchen on the many hats he sports besides sistant Conrad makes reference publisher — cartoonist, art agent, author, historian, free-speech crusader, to a lunch break, but Denis is notorious for virtually never tak- postcard collector — plus his obsession, friendships with Eisner, ing lunch breaks. The man works Crumb, and Kurtzman, new life with Kitchen Sink , and much more...... 34 non-stop! He skips breakfast too. True! Finally, he drew himself as a left-handed artist. His politics Creator’s Creators: Colorist Tom Ziuko illuminates his hue-drenched life.... 79 may be lefty, but the man is most Coming Attractions: Finally, out of the muck ’n’ mire, rises Swampmen!...... 79 definitely right-handed. —Y. E. A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words: Pérez’s Man of Tomorrow gets flopped!.... 80 If you’re viewing a Digital Edition of this publication, Right: Detail from Denis Kitchen’s surreal strip about working for gracing the PLEASE READ THIS: back cover of Kitchen Sink’s Mondo Snarfo #1 [1978]. ©2014 Denis Kitchen. This is copyrighted material, NOT intended for downloading anywhere except our website or Apps. If you downloaded it from Download the FREE CBC BONUS PDF containing goodies we couldn’t squeeze into this print edition! another website or torrent, go ahead and read it, and if you decide to keep it, DO THE RIGHT THING and buy a legal down- load, or a printed copy. Otherwise, DELETE IT FROM YOUR DEVICE and DO NOT SHARE IT WITH FRIENDS OR POST IT www.twomorrows.com freestuff ANYWHERE. If you enjoy our publications / enough to download them, please pay for Vol. 1 & 2 are now available them so we can keep producing ones like as digital downloads from twomorrows.com! this. Our digital editions should ONLY be downloaded within our Apps and at www.twomorrows.com Comic Book Creator ™ is published quarterly by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Dr., Raleigh, NC 27614 USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Jon B. Cooke, editor. John Morrow, publisher. Comic Book Creator editorial offices: P.O. 204, West Kingston, RI 02892 USA. E-mail: [email protected] subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Four-issue subscriptions: $36 US, $50 Canada, $65 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective copyright owners. All material © their Comic Book Creator creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter ©2014 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Comic Book is a proud joint production of Creator is a TM of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING. Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows amazing man The Last Splash Those Final, Glorious Years of ‘Wild Bill’ Everett Clean and sober after years of struggle, the Sub-Mariner creator goes out in style TM & ©2014 Marvel Characters, Inc. Inset right: Bill Everett producing by BLAKE BELL Everett’s last run on Sub-Mariner is one of those moments, cover color guides for X-Men #80 heightened by the intriguing promise of what might have and 81, and Special Marvel Edition The greatest enemy of the creator, one of the earliest and been, but also because the drama leading up to and #8 [all early 1973]. Below: Everett most talented auteurs of the nascent days of the surrounding it tells more about the man’s character cover for Sub-Mariner #55 [Nov. , wasn’t the dreaded than it does about the fictional character on ’72] and panel detail from same. deadline doom he perpetually stared the page. down, or the comic book editors To fully understand the man at this screaming over the phone for the late stage in his career, you have to late work, or even the competing journey back to the beginning. And freelancers enviously vying the “Peter Pan” of comics was lit- for the assignments he was erally there at the beginning. Bill chronically tardy in delivering. Everett’s professional odyssey No, unlike his most famous spans the medium’s birth to creation, there wasn’t any its early stages of maturation of the stature of as an art form, alongside a a flaming android or rival personal journey from deep prince or super-powered in the miry clay of self-de- quartet that threatened struction to the lofty heights the legendary artist/writ- of salvation and redemption. er. The man’s supreme This was a man who loved foe wasn’t external; it life, loved cigarettes and was an inside job, as he, alcohol, hated authority and himself, proved the root structure, and hated deadlines of all of his problems. even more. Only his God-given His name was Bill E., talent kept him above sea-level, and he was an alcoholic. dragging the artist out of numerous Thus after decades of valleys of failure, to leave a legacy of wreckage wrought by his unforgettable creative peaks. drinking and spiritual First, the facts: Bill Everett started in suffering that damaged the major leagues. Right from the get-go, in family and friends — any 1938, he was one of the first “five-tool players” and all who loved him — Bill in comic-book history: a creator who wrote, penciled, Everett found a new, revitalized life by inked, lettered, and colored his own work. He didn’t need embracing a fellowship, surrendering to be developed in the minors. Creating the “Sub-Mariner” the illusion he had power over his addiction strip in 1939, featured in the very first comic published by and thus facing his affliction — and shambles he (what we know today as) Marvel Comics, is like pitching a inflicted — head-on. And along the way, the man just no-hitter in your first big-league game — you stand out. The happened to produce the best material of a long, storied Sub-Mariner was the first “” in comics, and the first career. His 1972 run on Sub-Mariner, appearing only two four-colored anti-hero. His lineage can since be traced down years after putting down the drink, proved to be the finest — through and innumerable “against the grain” and final — work of his life, fittingly on his most beloved and characters. well-remembered character, Prince , Scourge of the Everett’s other famed creation is , the Man Seven Seas. (devised in partnership with ), who Upon proving his sobriety and reliability to editors and first appeared in early 1964. And the last of Everett’s career peers long skeptical of false starts and broken promises, the trinity is the horror material he drew for Marvel in the 1950s. artist/writer was given the helm of his enduring creation with Had Everett worked for E.C., the creative apex of horror the landmark “extra-special” Sub-Mariner #50 [June ’72], comics, and not been such a “Marvel Man” (mostly because and Everett embarked on a sublime series of comic stories Stan Lee loved the talent enough to tolerate the “deadline that were, in a word, wonderful. Filled with pathos, whimsy, smashing” work habits), his stature as one of the top artists

and charm, it’s difficult not to look at those books, lasting in comic-book history would be unquestioned. TM & ©2014 Marvel Characters, Inc. only until #59 [Mar. ’73], as an overarching act of redemption. But, as for creations that flowed from his pen, the It would come just in the nick of time, as a bad heart, wound- aforementioned is but the tip of an iceberg. He began ed by drink and tobacco, would take him from the surface drawing adventure strips for Centaur Publications in early world, in February 1973, at the all-too-young age of 55. 1938, pre-dating even ’s debut in . One of mainstream comic books’ abiding features is its Back then the term “super-hero” wasn’t a part of cultural brief “pockets” in time when, thanks to the talents of a few language. Everett spent the better part of the Golden Age individuals, what’s on the page endures beyond its intended of comics pumping out “action/adventure ” like lead destination in the dustbin of low-brow publishing history. from a Thompson submachine gun.

16 #5 • Spring 2014 • Comic Book Creator Amazing-Man, Hydroman, Skyrocket Steele, Dirk the Demon, the Chameleon, Bulls-Eye Bill, Sub-Zero Man, the Conqueror, Music Master, and Red Reed (undergrad adventurer) all sprang from Everett’s imagination in the years of 1938–42 before he entered the armed forces during World II; all in addition to his peerless and prolific work on the Sub-Mariner. As for Everett himself, he was a “fiery young man” not unlike the personality of tempestuous Prince Namor and TM & ©2014 Marvel Characters, Inc. as wildly flamboyant as his own stellar and idiosyncratic artwork. He was a child , but life took a sideways turn early on that led to troubling — and ultimately deadly — addictions to liquor and cigarettes. Everett’s status as a marvel is supported by some famous genes. He is a descendant of 18th century poet, painter, and printmaker William Blake. In fact, Bill is short for Everett’s full name: William Blake Everett. He was born on May 18, 1917, into a 300-year-old family who had a town — Everett, — named for his great-grandfather, a president at , governor of a commonwealth, as well as a U.S. Secretary of State. His father, Robert Maxwell, ran a successful trucking business, and the family lived an upper-middle class existence in Watertown, 15 miles west of . Bill’s mother, Grace, proved a direct influence on his artistic nature. Fancying herself a poet, she was known in the community as a painter into her late 70s. Art adorning the family home was mostly from her brush, usually seascapes inspired by living in the compound of summer homes on the Massachusetts shore. Bill’s love of all things aquatic can be directly traced back to these surroundings. The wunderkind’s artistic acumen developed early. He was writing elaborate poetry and drawing detailed pencil work by the age of eight. A defining moment in his life arrived when 11-year-old Everett won top prize in the first talent contest he entered. But it was the year following when his life was truly defined. He contracted tuberculosis and, as was the therapy back in the ’20s to retreat to a warm, dry climate, Bill’s mother and sister pulled the boy from the sixth grade and took him to recuperate in . His fascination with the lives of real Western cowboys was immediate, and he spent a great deal of time with older companions. Unfortunately, already afflicted with an addictive personality, Bill not only wiled away time drawing, but also with drinking. Drunk for the first time at the age of 12, he became an alcoholic when but a teenager. He returned home after his 16th birthday and promptly dropped out of high school. He then quit Boston’s renowned Vesper George School of Art, leaving after a year-and-a-half. His father dies suddenly and Bill is immediately thrust into an art career, though one far from comics. Young Bill was hired onto the retail advertising art staff of the -Traveler (now the Boston Herald) and later landed a similar job at City sister newspaper, the Herald-Tribune. He soon arrived at Teck Publications as art editor for their popular magazine, Radio News, a job that changed his life. A clash with his boss (one of many throwdowns over the course of his life) found him back on the unemployment line, but a contact made during his short stint at the company was soon to pay dividends. Walter Holze had left the magazine to work at a small publisher and recommended Everett to boss Joe Hardie, who was about to begin a new venture publishing comic books as part of the Centaur Publications company. There Everett met editor Lloyd Jacquet, who eventu- ally staged a coup and walked most of the staff out the door in early 1939 to start up his own shop, Funnies, Inc. The outfit produced comics for Man- hattan publishers dipping their toes into the comics field after the stunning success of “Superman.”

This page: Top is detail from Bill Everett’s Sub-Mariner #52 [Aug. 1972] featuring Sunfire, whose adversarial appearance echoes the great Namor versus battles of the 1940s. Middle is original art page from Everett’s debut ish of the run, #50 [June ’72]. At right are three examples of Everett’s other Marvel work from the period, as an . Flanking a superb job rendering Barry Smith’s pencils on #6 [June ’71] are a pair of -penciled covers (right, Amazing Adventures #11 [Mar. ’72] and Rawhide Kid #96 [Feb. ’72]. Also memorable are Wild Bill’s inks on ’s and

TM & ©2014 Marvel Characters, Inc. over Ross Andru’s pencils on “The ” in #1 [Dec. ’71].

Comic Book Creator • Spring 2014 • #5 17 cowan considered Of Cartoons & Comics Part two of our Denys Cowan interview: his animated life and return to comics

by Michael Aushenker CBC Associate Editor

Inset right: Photo of Denys Cowan [If you’re anything like this writer, a fan of Denys Cowan’s work since the artist’s early days at the Dec. 2013 opening of the penciling a glorified Road To… comedy starring and Daniel Rand and scripted Geppi’s Entertainment Museum with mirth by Mary Jo Duffy, and you’ve always wondered how Cowan detoured into exhibit “Milestones: African-Amer- animation, where he became a big-wig on the hit Emmy-lauded animated series Static icans in Comics, Pop Culture, and and The Boondocks…well, wonder no more, kindred spirit. Here’s where the Beyond,” courtesy of Andy Hersh- details of Cowan’s second career in animation come into sharp relief. berger, associate curator/registrar In part one of our interview, Cowan discussed his rise as one of a handful of few of the museum. The artist suffered African-American artists working for the majors in the early 1980s — from his teen a brief but significant scare in early December when a package of apprenticeship with the Demolisher creator to the young man’s original art he had sent to the breakthrough Power Man and Iron-Fist by his early 20s. Cowan also discussed his museum was missing items. The long runs on such series as DC’s The and the ’90s Deathlok revival at Marvel, art was subsequently returned. as well as his formation with partners Michael Davis, Derek T. Dingle, and the late Below: Roughs and tight pencils Dwayne McDuffie of , a subset universe of characters of color within of Cowan’s art in ’s Django the DC universe with the intent to level the racial playing field in super-hero comics. Unchained #3 [June 2013], both Here, picking up the thread where we left off in the early 1990s, Cowan is on the courtesy of the artist. Inset is his verge of relocating to California to pursue animation full-throttle, doing freelance work cover for #3, inks by John Floyd. for a Wu-Tang Clan member’s solo project. — .A.] ©2014 the respective copyright holder. Django Unchained TM & © 2014 Visiona Romantica, Inc.. TM & © DC Comics.

24 #5 • Spring 2014 • Comic Book Creator fast & loose facts Sloppy Seduction Prof. Carol Tilley uncovers Dr. Fredric Wertham’s fabrications and distortions in SOTI

Interview conducted by JON B. COOKE CBC Editor Falsifications that Helped Condemn Comics,” was published in Information and Culture: A Journal of History [Vol. 47, #4, [Just after Valentine’s Day last year, 2012] and, after meeting at last year’s , reported a story that sent tremors through the world of com- we finally had a chance to speak on Feb. 3, via the Internet. ics. Its article by Dave Itzkoff, “Scholar Finds Flaws in Work The interview was transcribed by Steven Thompson and by Archenemy of Comics,” shocked many (though surprised copy-edited by Carol for clarification and correction. — Y.E.] Below: Asst. Prof. Carol L. Tilley has previously written papers for few) in addressing University of Illinois Assistant Professor Comic Book Creator: What would you call your inves- academic journals, but nothing Carol L. Tilley’s findings that Seduction of the Innocent, Dr. she’s scribed has garnered the Fredric Wertham’s notorious book that nearly destroyed the tigation, Carol? It’s a published paper, right? th amount of attention as her article comics business and will have its 60 anniversary in April, Carol Tilley: “Paper” is fine for now. Someday it will be on Seduction of the Innocent, pub- was riddled with fabrications, distortions, and misrepre- something more than that. lished in Information and Culture: sentations of his own research. Having gained access to CBC: So, you are pursuing a book on this? A Journal of History [Vol. 47, #4, Wertham’s papers, Carol verified what many of us have long Carol: Yes, but not just about Dr. Fredric Wertham. I’d 2012] (inset). Photo by L. Brian suspected: that the good doctor had played fast and loose really like to focus more on what it meant to be a kid reading Stauffer, courtesy of the University with the truth. Ye Editor contacted the academic after her comics in the 1930s, ’40s, and ’50s. Wertham is part of that of Illinois Board of Trustees. article, “Seducing the Innocent: Fredric Wertham and the story, but I absolutely want it to be more than just about him. I think he’s probably gotten enough mileage, enough of our attention over the last half-century, and it’s time to hear some other stories from along the way. CBC: Up front, you said within the paper that you had some sympathies for Wertham’s motives, correct? Carol: I do. I have some sympathies for him in general. And part of that is spending the time that I have looking through his papers. There’s something about doing historical research where you get really acquainted with your subject by reading their papers, by seeing and experiencing things through their perspec- tive, and that certainly happened with me. Wertham was a very charismatic individual, very intelligent. He could be wickedly funny, so it’s hard not to kind of like that person. On top of that, the things that he did seem mostly, genuinely motivated by a desire to make the world a better place. CBC: What’s the background of your inves- tigation into Wertham’s material? Carol: I am a professor of library and information science: I teach people who are becoming librarians. I started out a long time ago as a high school librarian and, before that, as a comics reader. So, in my own re- search over the last eight or nine years, I’ve been thinking a lot about how librarians un- derstand comics and how that has changed over time. I’m especially interested in how librarians have

served as gatekeepers to some respect, for kids’ reading and Carol Tilley portrait ©2014 University of Illinois Board Trustees. especially kids’ comic reading in the mid-century, and even before that with newspaper comics. Wertham has always been part of that interest because he, in many ways, encapsulates a lot of what it means to be a gatekeeper. He captured a lot of the objections people in the 1940s and ’50s — and to some extent today — have with comics. So I had been paying occasional attention to his papers and to when they might be open to the public for research. There had been some hemming and hawing at the Library of Congress as a result, I believe, of concerns raised by Wertham’s executor. The papers were going to be open and then they weren’t and then they were and then they weren’t… and finally they were! I decided to go as soon as I could, not because I had a

28 #5 • Spring 2014 • Comic Book Creator the life of

cart0onist  publisher  art & literary agent  author  historian  collector

There are few folks in American comic books as eclectic as Denis Lee Kitchen. After honing his chops as a cartoonist while at college in the late 1960s, the man became a pioneer underground comix publisher with his , headquartered not in -central or radical but in, of all places, white bread , Wisconsin. The quality of his debut effort, Mom’s Homemade Comics, impressed and , among other comix luminaries, and soon Kitchen was publishing for Lynch [1970] and Crumb’s Home Grown Funnies (which included the seminal “Whiteman Meets Big Foot,” 1971). KSP expanded and Kitchen released Bizarre Sex, Snarf, and , along the way establishing lifelong friendships with and . Briefly editor of the Marvel-published Comix Book, Kitchen survived the ’70s by selling pot paraphernalia via Krupp Mail Order, working on regional alternative tabloids, and going mainstream publishing The Spirit, as well as Dope Comix and Weird Trips. In the ’80s, Kitchen skillfully adapted to the direct sales marketplace, notably publishing Eisner, Kurtzman, , and , as well as Megaton Man, , Omaha the Cat Dancer, and . The following decade brought the collapse of KSP after a disastrous merger with ’s Tundra imprint, but not before releasing Bushmiller’s Nancy, Welz’s , and O’Barr’s , among many other top-shelf comics and books. Much of Kitchen’s efforts during the first decade of the new millennium were devoted to his art and literary agency clients, which included Will Eisner, and the respective estates of Al Capp and Harvey Kurtzman, as well as devoting considerable time to his creation, the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund, which fights for in the realm of comics. Above: Denis Kitchen, artisté, in a photo taken in his Wisconsin digs in the mid-1970s. At his Today the man is as busy as ever, co-authoring books on Capp, Kurtzman, and underground right is friend and KSP chum Peter Poplaski’s unfinished portrait of Denis. Courtesy of Denis comix, and returning as publisher with the Dark Horse imprint Kitchen Sink Books. This & Stacey Kitchen. Next page: CBC’s expert shutterbug extraordinaire Seth Kushner interview took place at Kitchen’s home in central Massachusetts, which he shares with wife snapped D.K. at the 2013 Comic-Con. Stacey and teenage daughter Alexa, being conducted on Aug. 24–25, 2013. — JBC. conducted by jon b. cooke  transcribed by brian k. morris  photography by seth kushner

34 #5 • Spring 2014 • Comic Book Creator first amendment champion  nancy & jukebox

Comic Book Creator: Let’s jump right in. You’re from Irish-German stock, Denis? Denis Kitchen: Yeah, “Kitchen” is Irish, with some Scotch-Irish on my father’s side. My mother’s parents were Donauschwaben, German-speaking citizens of Hungary, who emigrated at the turn of the century. My maternal grandparents continued to speak German in Milwaukee where they lived. There were so many Germans there that my grandmother, Margaretha, lived to nearly 90 and never really had to learn to speak English. She spoke a little halting English, but all the conversations were in German. And so when she came to live with us, that was just the way it was. CBC: Did you speak German? Denis: I certainly understood my grandmother. I could comprehend her, but I wasn’t fluent speaking it. But even now, when I go to Germany, or when we had German guests last week, I retain a surprising amount of it. CBC: Did you have any relatives — parents, grandparents, or family, out of family — who were creative? Denis: My maternal grandfather, Franz, was an ornamental ironworker and a terrific artist. My mother remembers watching him draw designs for projects and said he was a remarkable drafts- man. He suffered from neuralgia, causing chronic severe pain and, probably because of depression from that, he’d throw things away. None of his drawn art survives — he destroyed it all. The things that do survive are literally made of metal, and they’re beautiful. Some ornamental work survives in the Wisconsin state capitol building. He also made things like lamps, jewelry boxes, and ornate fireplace screens. My mother could also draw very well, too. She’s another one, the opposite of me, who wasn’t a saver. When I was young, I clearly remember she showed me drawings she did of Pinocchio. I remember it being very well done, but she didn’t save those things. She later went on to paint still lives: flowers and that sort of thing, but there’s definitely a creative streak on that side of the family. My brother, James, is now a professional sculptor, and pretty amazing. My sister can also draw very well, but she never pursued it. CBC: What’s your sister’s name? Denis: Gayle. James is a late bloomer. He worked for me for a good many years at Kitchen Sink Press and then, after the company went under, he reinvented himself as a metal sculptor and he’s actually achieved quite a bit of success, certainly regionally. If you go into the city of Springfield, Massachusetts, his sculptures all over that city and some are huge. He recently erected a bird- shaped structure that’s 35 feet high. CBC: Wow. Denis: So there’s definitely something in the genes if such a thing is, in fact, inheritable. CBC: What were your parents’ names? Denis: My father’s name was Benjamin, after his father and my mother was Margaret —

Portrait ©2014 Seth Kushner. actually, Margaretha, after her mother.

Comic Book Creator • Spring 2014 • #5 35 ©2014 Denis Kitchen. school, we were assigned to research and write a paper on the profession we’d likely pursue. We were told to pick three options and for the primary one we had to interview a professional in that field. Of course, my number one choice, really, was to be a cartoonist. But at 14 or 15 I didn’t have a clue where the nearest cartoonist was. [chuckles] I was in a small rural town called Caledonia, and literally couldn’t fulfill the assignment with a cartoonist. So my fall back, of course, was, “Okay, I’ll interview my cousin.” I still have the report. On the cover are self-portraits: one drawing cartoons and the other half thinking of abstract numbers. I made an appointment visit Georgie in a suburb of Milwaukee. He had a really nice, well-kept backyard with a big garden. It was beautifully laid out, in symmetrical rows with lots of decorative flowers. I literally went into the garden with my notepad to interview him because he was weeding. I started asking him what must have been pretty uninspired questions. I knew next to nothing what he did and he picked up on that pretty quickly. He said, “You don’t really want to be an elec- trical engineer, do you, Denis?” And I said, kind of softly, “No, not really, Georgie.” I remember there a long pause. Then he put down his trowel and looked at me somberly. He said, “Listen, if I had it to do it all over again, I would be a garden- Above: A photo of Ben Kitchen, CBC: And was there an appreciation for art at home when er.” Then he said, “Follow your heart.” That was an amazing Denis’s father, in the service you were growing up? and liberating moment for me. After all the family pressure during the Second World War. Denis: I wouldn’t say in a noticeable way. My dad was a to be like my successful cousin, I realized he didn’t enjoy his Ben is second from right. Cour- blue-collar worker and we had very little in terms of things to day job and didn’t want to send me down that same road. He tesy of Denis & Stacey Kitchen. hang on the wall [laughs]. We were quite poor, so I can’t say basically said, “Be what you want to be.” From the moment I that art was something that surrounded us or was discussed. walked away from his garden, I never looked back. BELOW: Even in high school, CBC: You were born in ’46? CBC: Mmm. Where did you interest in cartooning start? Denis Kitchen was publishing, Denis: Right. Can you pinpoint it? this his monthly gossip sheet/ CBC: And where were you in the lineup of siblings? Denis: It’s hard to pinpoint, Jon, other than I was a vora- humor mimeograph ’zine, Klepto. Denis: I’m the oldest of three Kitchens. My dad died when I cious reader of comics in both the daily newspaper and in was only 13. My mother remarried another comic books. And from a very early age I drew, but even Irishman, George Riley, when I was 18. I in- more in the earliest years I “sculpted.” I had a lot of model- herited three younger siblings on the Riley ing clay. I used to get an allowance of fifty cents a week and side who I quickly became very close to. in those days, at the dime store — when many things literally CBC: Were they creative at all? cost a dime — a box of modeling clay was 10¢ and a comic Denis: My late stepsister Doreen was book was 10¢. So I would either buy five comics or five boxes an excellent photographer. But, growing of clay or some combination and that was my weekly obses- up, the formative years, there was nev- sion: those two things. er any real steering of me toward the At some point I was drawing cartoons. And was en- creative side. They didn’t discourage couraged. The earliest specific memory I have is being at it, but as a practical matter the oppo- a bar with my Aunt Alma when I was quite young, and she site occurred. My whole extended used to take whatever I was drawing and pass it around family was on the poor side of the the bar and say, “Look what my nephew can do.” And this fence and so, when I showed some particular time, I was drawing a woman. She picked up and scholastic ability and was getting she said, “Look at the boobs on this one!” I remember being strong grades, I was encouraged mortified that she focused on these breasts that I drew, that to be like my cousin Georgie who I wasn’t, I don’t think, even conscious of being sexual. I was was an electrical engineer. He just drawing what a woman looked like. But to her, it was a was the only college graduate in lot earthier than I’m sure I intended and I remember having our entire family. There was no mixed feelings. I remember being embarrassed that people other professional role model, were laughing at my drawing, but at the same time feeling so I was constantly prodded by somehow rewarded, that what I created was being appreci- my mother and my aunts to “be ated. They might have been laughing at me, or thinking it was ©2014 Denis Kitchen. like Georgie.” precocious. Whatever it was, that’s a memory that’s vivid and CBC: Practical and… had some meaning. Denis: Exactly. One of Another recollection — when I was also quite young my favorite stories is that — the Milwaukee Journal was our daily newspaper, with as sophomores in high an excellent comic section called “The Green Sheet.” They

36 #5 • Spring 2014 • Comic Book Creator ©2014 Denis Kitchen. complex and yet reduced to the essence, the fewest number of lines. And the lines were precisely and steadily rendered. I was fascinated by that duality of simplicity and sharpness of detail. I think in some way it influenced my own style, con- sciously or not. There was also a real pride of craftsmanship. For example, Bushmiller could easily have used Photostats, or later Xeroxes, for many repetitive character heads, to save labor, but he drew everything as an original. Yet each geometrically perfect Nancy head has the same hundred or so hand-drawn stipples around the perimeter. Every day, day after day, like a Zen exercise. No ’stats for Ernie. CBC: You sneaked Nancy into your cover [for this issue of CBC], I noticed. Clearly there’s some significance. Denis: Yeah, there’s definitely a soft spot for that girl. I tried to track him down, you know. I tried to interview Bushmiller. I wanted him to do a self-portrait for my Famous Buttons series too, back in 1974 or ’75, but I could never get through. I talked to his wife on the phone, but couldn’t get past her. She kept telling me to talk to the syndicate. I said, “I don’t care about the syndicate, I want to talk to your husband.” But no dice, she was a tough gatekeeper. He never answered letters either, so his reclusiveness, or I should say elusiveness, probably added to the intrigue. To this day, have a fascination with Bushmiller and other people in the industry share it. Either they share it, or they look at me and start to move further away… because some people just think he’s — CBC: We’re worried, we’re worried. [chuckles] Denis: Yeah, yeah, worried. CBC: Then we’ll call it an obsession, perhaps. Denis: I prefer that term “fascination.” CBC: [Laughs] And were there other strips that intrigued you? Denis: Sure, to the degree I saw them. One paper was all our family could afford. My father was a staunch Democrat and the Tribune was a Republican paper, so I rarely got to read its comics, but they were unavoidable where I lived. was so popular that the Tribune wrapped its featuring Tracy over the main section’s head- lines on newsstands. Kind of hard to believe, huh? There’d be colorful stacks of these on Sundays and sometimes I got to read the Trib’s comics. I would have liked daily, and Gasoline Alley. I appreciated years later when Harvey Kurtzman told me his parents subscribed to The Daily Worker. They were Communists and they didn’t want a capitalist apologist newspaper in their house and they didn’t have a high regard for the comic strips Harvey adored. So Harvey had to find the Above: Inside front cover of hilarious because nobody could be as square as Welk, the Hearst newspapers and other New York papers from, like, a Mom’s Homemade Comics #3 hokey TV band leader. So here was Ernie proudly proclaim- [Feb. ’71]. the straights neighbor who got the good comics papers and that’s where ing his square-ness while, in that same article, he said when with the , kids! Below: he fell in love with Gordon and the other classic Hearst Kitchen depicts a sinister cap- he was starting out and trying to be inventive with strip gags strips. I wished I had a neighbor, you know, who, like, got italist shilling for the company. on Fritzi Ritz, the syndicate told him, “Dumb it down, Ernie. the Tribune or Sun-Times so I could see the ones I missed. It From early ’70s KSP house ad. Dumb it down.” And so he did. That was an early inkling to took me a while to understand the business reasons why — me, that the syndicate would instruct a cartoonist to make when you’re a kid, you don’t have a clue. a strip dumber. It was like, “Oh, I understand. They think the CBC: You want what you want. audience is dumb. Why else would you tell a guy to dumb Denis: Yeah. down his strip?” Well, Nancy became highly popular, so I CBC: [Chuckles] Comics, did comic books come in at a guess the syndicate guys knew what they were doing. It young age? How young were you? still bothered me that a cartoonist was discouraged from Denis: My earliest memories are of reading comic books. I doing the smartest humor he could. can’t say exactly what age — CBC: It’s Miss X’s gossip column. [chuckles] CBC: What were you reading? Denis: That’s funny. Anyhow, early on, I didn’t Denis: Anything and everything. I was omnivorous. It didn’t hold Bushmiller’s gags in high regard on any intellec- matter to me if it was a or a humorous comic. tual level, but I was intrigued with his art style. There was On the funny side, I especially loved and Uncle a geometric perfection to his strip. I studied it carefully. Scrooge, but I wasn’t impressed with other Disney comics. Nancy’s head and the relationship of the top oval of her head Donald Duck and always seemed bland, to the bottom oval and the nose to the eyes and the mouth, but I loved Uncle Scrooge. I never liked the Archie line. Too they were perfectly proportional, and just the essential slits cloying I think. But other than that, I was not terribly discrim- ©2014 Denis Kitchen. and dots as facial features. It appeared simple but it was inatory. I think I mentioned earlier to you an adult babysitter deceptively simple. Every little stipple on Nancy’s hair was where I would be dropped off. She had stacks and stacks of equidistant and a clone of the others. The junk piled in Slug- comics and I would just go through the piles when there. I go’s yard. Everything in the strip could be simultaneously was easy to sit. [laughs] I don’t think I favored science-fic-

42 #5 • Spring 2014 • Comic Book Creator tion or horror or super-hero or humor, I just took them off the top as they came and read-read-read-read-read, go on to the next. I appreci- ated all genres, but I was es- pecially entranced by , mostly the pre-Code

All artwork ©2014 the respective artists. titles. So many were gen- uinely creepy. The parents who were concerned that these comics were psy- chologically damaging may have had a point [chuckles] because they could be pretty grim. The covers mesmerized me. I would just stare at some horror covers. I had thousands of comics from my youth that I recently sold but sentimentally saved some of the horror titles. One example from memory is an Atlas title, Spellbound, from the ’50s. Some kind of is melting the flesh off this guy and you’re seeing his skeleton emerge from the part of his body transfixed in this beam. Things like that, I would just stare at it and go, “Oh, my God. This is so weird.” The stories inside, you know, CBC: How did he die? I certainly would read, too, but it was the covers that I never Denis: He suffered a cerebral hemorrhage at forgot. work, in a factory. Basically, it was a stroke. CBC: Were they CBC: How old was he? compelling and disturbing at the same time? Denis: He was 45. Denis: Yeah, absolutely. It was, “Oh, CBC: Wow, good Lord. That must have my God, that was creepy. I’ve been quite impacting. Was it? gotta read another one. Oh, Denis: Oh, God, yes. It hap- Jesus. I’m going to have pened in the summer of 1960, a nightmare. I gotta read so it happened during school another one.” It was vacation. My mother had addicting… a third-shift job so she CBC: When did television would sleep mornings and come into play? I would be responsible for Denis: In the mid-’50s I discov- my younger brother and ered TV and the first thing that sister. They were about five really caught my imagination was and seven. The morning he Davy Crockett, serialized on Walt died, two guys in suits came Disney’s show, the Fess Park- to the door and they said, er-Davy Crockett. There were maybe “Is your mother here?” I said, five, six, or so episodes and man, I was “She’s sleeping.” And they said, THIS PAGE: gifted the world caught up in that. Of course, I also had to “Well, wake her up. It’s important.” have the version of the series, his Wild creation ProJunior, One handed me some coins and said, who became a public domain character. which I’d read over and over. “Why don’t you take your brother and sister for Top right is Denis’s back cover art for CBC: Was your mother and your father, were they encour- a walk and get some candy?” And when we came KSP’s Projunior #1 [’71], courtesy of aging with your creative — ? What did your father think of back, our mother was sobbing uncontrollably. Heritage. Above is Jay Lynch’s cover art your little clay scenarios? CBC: Wow. Were you close with your father? to same. Left inset is D.K.’s rendition of Denis: I’m having a tough time recalling. He must have tol- Denis: I think so, sure. But he was not a big talker, Juan Cristobel Valdez de ProJunior from erated it, but I don’t think he exactly encouraged it. He died not comfortable being emotional. He took me to ball- same. Top left is R. Crumb’s version (with

All comics TM & ©2014 their respective copyright holders. when I was 13 and my childhood ended pretty abruptly. games when the Braves were in Milwaukee. He loved Honeybunch), from Bijou Funnies #4 [’70].

Comic Book Creator • Spring 2014 • #5 43 thought they had peaked. And of course, they had far from All artwork, The Spirit and the distinctive Will Eisner signature TM & ©2014 Studios, Inc. peaked. If I had those same comics today, you’d be talking to me on my private island off Tahiti. But I sold them when Kitchen Sink needed working capital and I could get $100, $200 for a pristine, early Marvel at Chicago Comicon. I was thinking, “I paid 10¢ for this and someone’s paying me $100 — a thousand times what I paid for it.” It was too obscene a profit to turn down. And it was really handy for growing my company. After all, it wasn’t easy for a longhaired under- ground comix magnate to walk into a small Wisconsin bank and get a line of credit. After a couple Chicago conventions, I pretty much wiped out my best old Marvel inventory. Today, I look back and some these titles, you know, in a high CGC grade can sell for $10,000 or $15,000 each and more. Amaz- ing Spider-Man #1 sold for over $100,000 at Heritage a while back — and I had five of them at one point! Where are my tranquilizers, Jon? CBC: You still did good. Denis: I did all right at the time. Just sold way too early [laughs] in retrospect. But the fact that I originally bought five of each seems pretty prescient. I can’t put myself today in of that 18-year old. I had some pocket money, but nothing to really speak of. And I was investing a significant Snarf ©2014 Denis Kitchen. portion in something I somehow knew was a smart invest- ment, but virtually anyone else in the early ’60s would have thought was a total waste of money. CBC: What was the plan? Denis: I just knew in- stinctively. That’s all I can tell you. CBC: Was any of it maybe to share, that this is so cool that “maybe I’ll share with somebody someday?” Above: One of the most import- I’d read and re-read one copy but Denis: Well, I’d find kindred — and enduring — personal then stash the other four away spirits. It’s how Dave Sch- and professional relationships and never touch them. So years reiner and I hooked up. Dave in the life of Denis Kitchen had later I had pristine mint copies eventually became an amazing been his alliance with comic of these early Marvels. I just editor-in-chief for Kitchen Sink, book giant Will Eisner, father instinctively knew they were but I met him in college when of the (above worth saving. They would be photo from 1990). The pair met we were, I think, sophomores in “good trade bait,” that was journalism class. We were both at an early ’70s comic book the way I put it. And I was convention, and soon the master journalism majors and I must have was contributing to the young always looking for missing sat next to him. We found we had publisher’s outfit.I nset right: issues like #1 or Fan- a mutual interest in Marvel Comics The Spirit and Commissioner tastic Four #1. So I would and Uncle Scrooge. He was a big Carl Dolan grace the cover of Snarf have trade bait… Barks aficionado and so we would find #3 [Nov. ’72]. BELOW: Denis also CBC: Deals. ourselves talking about favorites stories, published two issues of The Denis: So I ended artists, just comics in general. We’d hang Spirit [Jan. ’73 & Nov. ’73] featur- sitting on those for a out after class. One of our professors a ing new Eisner covers, the early good number of years, bit later was George Lockwood, who I (and abortive) KSP revival. eventually selling them when I mentioned earlier. Lockwood was the first

48 #5 • Spring 2014 • Comic Book Creator academic I met who talked about comics with passion. And both Dave and I were just like — our eyes just got wide — CBC: Now this is comic strips, right? Denis: Yeah, comic strips. But still, to have a professor in the ’60s who took any comics seriously? He was teaching “The History of Journalism” and he talked about the Yellow Kid and how comics became something big publishers like Hearst and Pulitzer would battle over because comics were really driving newspaper sales — they had such powerful mass appeal. He would describe these tugs of war and legal battles over Outcault or The Katzenjammer Kids, and Dave and I were entranced because there was so little out there at that time about the history of comics. It was a true eyeopener for us. Sometimes we’d hang out afterwards and talk to him His name was George Lockwood. He was also Above: Text to come. thrilled to have a couple of students who shared his passion. Eventually, when I graduated from college and was starting to freelance, George, wearing his newspaperman hat, was one of the first to give me paying assignments of any substance. Those first gigs made me feel like I could actually make a living as a cartoonist. So those connections proved really important on my ultimate path. Early on, it was a real struggle, just trying to pay the rent on my East Side flat and have food in the fridge and to do it through cartooning, whether with freelancing or from undergrounds. It was a terrible struggle, but I loved the medium so much that I was willing to almost literally starve. In fact, when Dave Schrein- er and I got our degrees in journalism in 1968, he actually became a journalist, working for the Sheboygan Press and making Guild wages, which I think were $400 a week in the late ’60s. It seemed like a fortune to me. And he would visit me in Milwaukee when I don’t think I ever made $400 dollars a month. My rent was, I think, $75 total, which I shared with a couple roommates and I was struggling just to pay my third. Dave used to poke fun at me be-

All artwork, The Spirit and the distinctive Will Eisner signature TM & ©2014 Will Eisner Studios, Inc. “Eisner Vault” ©2014 Will Eisner Studios, Inc. and Denis Kitchen. All artwork, The Spirit and the distinctive Will Eisner signature TM & ©2014 Studios, Inc. “Eisner Vault” cause I’d be boiling cauliflower or a can of hominy. One time he said to me, “You know, the white vege- Above: Kitchen and Eisner jam table group is the least nutritious.” got out of the Army for being too page, “Eisner Vault,” from The [laughs] And I said, “Well, hominy skinny. I was starving. Spirit #22 [Dec. ’79]. Below: Eis- is 10¢ a can.” And he’d take pity CBC: [Chuckles] But you were ner self-portrait for his 1995 Will on me. There were times when he — people thought you were worth Eisner Sketchbook bookplate. left that he’d slip me a $20 and I’d investing in, right? Courtesy of Heritage. Inset left: Cover for the KSP book, be like, “Wow, thanks, Dave. I can Denis: I guess you could The Art of Will Eisner [’82]. really use it.” And when I couldn’t conclude that in retrospect. To afford my own weed and he would return to Dave Schreiner, he was a lay a nickel- or dime-bag on me critical one. Looking back — con- and I’d say, “Thanks, Dave. You necting the dots — in high school, know I’ll make up for it next time.” I was doing something pretty cool It literally took a couple of years I thought. But at the university, before I could reciprocate. suddenly I’m in a place drowning The first time he came to visit in smart and creative students and and I rolled a joint of my own pot I didn’t feel very special. When I and said, “Here, this is mine,” I met Dave and he saw me drawing remember him responding, “It’s in notebooks he was encouraging about f*cking time!” I really had me to do something with it. Dave been kind of a charity case. The became the sports editor for the of course is that some years UWM Post — I think our soph- later, Dave came to work for me. It came full circle. But in my omore year — and he needed a logo for a column and he

All comics TM & ©2014 their respective copyright holders. earliest professional years, I mean, there’s a reason I almost asked me. I said okay, did a cartoon panther I think, and it ap-

Comic Book Creator • Spring 2014 • #5 49 Photo ©2014 Denis Kitchen. ters, a New York transfer student, which was very rare. The UW–Madison campus had students from all over the world but UWM was not a destination for many New Yorkers. He stood out from the crowd and I immediately gravitated to him. Jeff was very clever, an aspiring writer, really acerbic and audacious. He was a good magazine partner because he could make cold calls and sell advertising. I hated that Comix Book TM & ©2014 Marvel Entertainment, Inc. part. I focused on editorial and design. He was another person instrumental in my growing wings, helping prepare me for what was to come. Jeff graduated a year ahead of me and the second issue of Snide was supposed to be the “all comics issue.” But the budget, the magazine’s revenue from sales and ads in the first issue, that budget left with Jeff. So that second Snide evolved into Mom’s Homemade Comics #1, my first self-published underground. And then that quickly turned into Krupp and Kitchen Sink and the Bu- gle. The , the Post strips, the publicity stunts, they all led in a way to the businesses I ended up starting. I found kindred spirits in Milwaukee, another four or five good cartoonists who before long began contributing to the and the Kitchen Sink comics. A couple became partners for a while. I was trying initially to make the comics company kind of communal. I was a pretty serious socialist around that period. When that didn’t work, it was just trying to re- cruit talent, develop young, raw talent. Once the comics got out there, all over the country, submissions started pouring in and we’d get letters and sample art from all over the place. I’m compressing things here, but I knew Kitchen Sink Above: The Marvel team-up notes.” And he’s, “Taking notes on what, man?” you never expected the Hippie CBC: “Let me see the color of your socks.” [laughs] was finally making it when the established San Francisco and the Man unite for Comix Denis: So I said, “No, man, I’m a cartoonist. I heard underground artists started sending things to me, because Book, Stan Lee and Kitchen’s something funny. It might go in a strip.” And he said, “You’re there were three publishers in the Bay Area where they 1974 attempt to mainstream the writing down our names.” So I handed him my notebook. could physically walk in the door. The fact that they were underground. Photo of the pair He flipped through and it didn’t look like narc notes, so he sending me stuff in the Midwest made me feel like I’d finally in the Bullpen in 1974. Below: handed it back. He said, “You’re making me — you’re making made it — was part of the inner circle. I also became aware Peter Poplaski’s unforgettable me nervous, man.” there were a lot of politics in the San Francisco/Berkeley cover art for Comix Book #1 CBC: “You’re harshing my buzz, dude.” [laughs] comix community that I was blissfully not part of. As you can [Oct. ’74], edited by imagine, it got a little incestuous, both literally and politically Denis Kitchen. Denis: Basically. So I learned there’s a certain unspoken etiquette with … out there: cartoonists sleeping with each other, getting in CBC: Mixed company. spats with publishers and each other, and distinct cliques Denis: Yeah, you learn what forming. So I was kind of neutral. Nobody out west knew me makes people uncomfortable in well enough to hate me. I think I developed a reputation as certain situations and you adapt. a reliable guy who they’d get a check from on a timely basis, Once I was tripping with friends an honest accounting, trying to do things conscientiously. and one of the guys, though he CBC: Did you write letters of encouragement back or was young, had false teeth. He develop a rapport? must have been in an accident Denis: Absolutely. I was an inveterate letter writer. when he was young. We’re all CBC: Had you always been? in this candlelit room grooving to Denis: It probably started in college when I had close All comics TM & ©2014 their respective copyright holders. music and he suddenly pulls out friends in faraway schools. We wrote each other, got in the his upper plate. It was about the habit. When time permitted I used to send original color grossest, worst thing anybody could illustrated letters to friends. I suppose I could have just been possibly do in that situation. And I on the phone, but — remember going, “Jesus Christ, Bill, CBC: But that costs money, right? put your teeth back. You’re killing me!” Denis: Back then, oh yeah. Long distance calls were ex- Nobody wrote an etiquette book for pensive. But remember, I majored in journalism for a reason. trippy hippies. I liked writing, I had confidence in my writing and honed CBC: “Don’t take out teeth,” check! those communication skills at every opportunity, and I think Denis: Right. “And don’t drive on I got pretty good with it. I’ll never forget a conversation I had freeways.” once with [publisher] at . I had written CBC: Snide, you created that? a number of letters to him, mostly for business reasons, Denis: I co-founded it with Jeff Win- because we were distributing each other’s books. He was

52 #5 • Spring 2014 • Comic Book Creator never responding and it drove me crazy. I finally confronted him at a show. I said, “Jeez, Ron, I sent you a half-dozen letters, and you never answered a single one. What the hell’s wrong?” And he said, “I’m intimidated by your letters. They come in, they’re perfectly typed, and there are no mistakes.” He said, “I can’t reciprocate.” CBC: [Laughs] Wow, he was intimidated? Denis: Yeah. It had never even occurred to me that someone might interpret letters that way. I didn’t care if he sent a scribbled note back — I just wanted a response. But he felt he had to respond in kind I guess. But that wasn’t a typical response. Most of the artists back then were happy to correspond, and sometimes, we’d illustrate the letters — literally draw on the letter or envelope — or include roughs or concept drawings. That was just part of the communi- Above: Text to come. cation, because in those days, before fax machines, before scanners, before computers, way before email, that’s how “The Birth of Comix Book” and “Working in Geektown” ©2014 Denis Kitchen. “The Birth of Comix Book” and “Working we communicated. And nothing was instant. I’d send a letter to California, it would take a few days. They’d send one back and it would take a few days. Things were by no means instantaneous. I mean, sure, you could pick up the phone and make a quick decision, and that happened, but in our business, the show-&-tell and the exchanges were most effective by letters. I’m so grateful in retrospect because there’s now a written history of all that. I saved everything. There’s this voluminous correspondence and a lot of it with people who ended up being very important to the movement or the genre, and even some that are peripheral are still fascinating. That’s why I’m talking seriously to about all this stuff. They’re probably going to get all the papers soon. And what’s really amazing to me as I look at — I don’t even know — 15 or 20 file cabinets full of letters — every one of them, I typed with one finger because — life’s little — I never took a typing class. I never thought I’d need it. CBC: Well, two fingers. Denis: Well, yeah, two fingers to be technically correct — but the right index finger does the heavy lifting. The left index is just kind of an assistant. But I learned early on, of necessity, to type relatively quickly. CBC: You were a journalism student and you didn’t take a typing class? Denis: A very astute observation, Jon. That’s the thing. I didn’t plan ahead. In high school, I had a You’re going to ask me questions ABOVE: Original art for editor crappy guidance counselor and very for 15 minutes and take notes, And Kitchen’s intro page to that unsatisfactory guidance. To be fair, then you’re going to take the last 20 same issue. Courtesy of Denis I wasn’t even sure I could afford to minutes, organize your notes, hand & Stacey Kitchen. Left inset: go to college and if I did, what to write the story outline, then type it Last December brought us The and hand it in by the end of class.” Best of Comix Book, a hardcover major in. She’d say, “What do you compilation that includes an And I froze. “Oh, my God. I’ve got to want to do?” I’d say, “I want to be informative introductory essay a cartoonist,” she’d say, “There type. Jesus Christ! Why didn’t I see about the underground hybrid by are no schools for that.” Then type coming?” KSP contributor James Vance. repeat again next time. That was CBC: [Laughs] In journalism class. Below: Mondo Snarfo [Sept. the conundrum. There was no Plan Denis: Crazy naïve, huh? So what ’78] included a surreal back B. No engineering school option it forced me to do — one of those cover strip by Kitchen, a anymore. And meanwhile, I never things borne of necessity — I didn’t thinly-veiled reminiscence of his took typing. No one ever advised me have the luxury of writing or outlining brief — and bizarre — experi- that it might be a very smart elective. my story first in longhand and then ence working with “MCG,” Stan I finally figured that since half of typing it. I Lee’s Marvel Comics Group. cartooning is writing — and I was had to write sure I could self-teach myself to the story as draw — it would be helpful to have I was hunt- some formal training in writing, either &-peck English or journalism. I picked journalism because that was typing it on a manual typewriter. the practical, communication aspect of writing. If I chose That was the only possible English, I feared it would be too classical, too scholarly and strategy. It forced me to think dry. Journalism is also about storytelling. But when I started quickly, to come up with that at UWM and enrolled in Journalism 101, I didn’t read the fine “inverted pyramid” structure, print, which said typing was a prerequisite. So I got to my a snappy headline, a concise first class, a 50-minute class, and the professor said, “The opening paragraph, and so on, first 15 minutes, I’m going to give all of you the bare bones of all pretty spontaneously. I did

The Best of Comix Book ©2014 Kitchen, Lind and Associates LLC. a news story with some facts and maybe some red herrings. it well enough, and survived,

Comic Book Creator • Spring 2014 • #5 53 No, I didn’t. But he sent a sketch of Uncle tact me. I even like the free cards given away by publishers e reading g Snarff, which was a nice little and many artists at bigger conventions and trade shows. If a bonus. And then after that, I just kind of went, “Well, fan attending shows regularly grabs extras of freebie post- you know ow what? I just struck out three times here. cards at shows and then mails a pile to me [P P.O..O. Box 2250, I think I’m just going to give up and just focus on Amherst MA 01002-2250 — YYee Ed.], I exchange credit in our the guys ys in the underground.” There was never online Steve Krupp’s Curio Shoppe. For really good stashes anotherr guest cover from an older cartoonist, r,, who did an amazing one later on. CBC: What’IF’ss YOUup with ENJOYED Kitchen Sink THIS Books? PREVIEW, But my y original plan, to alternate them, that was out Denis:Denis: Well,CLICK the first THE book LINK the TOnew ORDER Kitchen THISSink Books ndow. So the seventh one ended up by being imprint isISSUE doing isIN The PRINT Best ORof Comix DIGITAL Book k ,FORMAT! about the exper- some guy y named . imental magazine I assembled for Stan Lee back in 1974. h, yeah? [laughslaughl ] Badda-boom! Just some It’s being collected for the first time in 40 years. I wrote a -winning cartoonist. Are you the agent forward for it, James Vance wrote a longer essay, and Stan of the Estate of Will Eisner and of the Estate provided a really nice introduction. of Harvey Kurtzman? Is that the official OOur goal l iis tto ddo ffour r,, fifive, maybe b six projects a yearr.. function? Is that a different function from There won’t be something every month, but there’ll be quite activelytively seeking work for a living artist? a variety. Some will be in a coffee table book format, on nis: , that’Okay that’s a multi-part answer. With particular artists or subjects, ones that should appeal to a estate, it’s two parts. The literary estate is broad set of collectors and be commercially popular. Then handledd by the Kitchen and Hansen Agency Will’s. there’ll be other books, not likely best sellers, but ones we original art is with the Denis Kitchen Art Agency. haveave a passion for r,, ones that [partner] John [Lind] and I think They’re two wo very distinct entities. The art is [Will’s wife] deserve to be done. Mike Richardson has guaranteed us s personal rsonal property so I represent Ann. With the editorial autonomy, and as long as the line as a whole makes literaryy material, the intellectual property, some money and both sides are happy, we’ll continue the Will left a corporation which is administered by his nephew, relationship. At this point in my career rr,, I just want to make ABOVE: The aforementioned COMIC BOOK CREATOR #5 Carl Gropper. good books,DENIS ones KITCHEN I’mclose-up—from proud of, onescartoonist, that publisher, have author, some signifi- Peter Poplaski rendered this With Kurtzman, it’s again bifurcated. The Denis Kitchen cance, andand areart agent, fun toto his assemble. friendships with John HARVEY Lind KURTZMAN, wants R.exactly the recent portrait of Denis. Over Art Agency also handles the art sales there. But my other same thing.CRUMB, WILL EISNER, and many others! Plus we examine the the last few years, D.K. has supreme artistry of JOHN ROMITA, JR., BILL EVERETT’s final agencyy,, Kitchen, Lind & Associates, handles Harvey’s intel- But, tosplash, be clearthe nefarious r,, I don’ backroomt want dealings to start of STOLEN a Kitchen COMIC Sink Press began yet another aspect of his lectual property. Literary agencies don’t handle art. That’s all over withBOOK a ART few, and dozen ascend employeesTHE GODS OF MT. and OLYMPUS to have(a ‘70s to deal with multi-faceted career to become gem by ACHZIGER, STATON and WORKMAN)! a specialty area I happen to do for just these estates and a printers and distributors and warehousing and collecting an book author and he’ e’s (84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 also (sorta) rebooted the handful of other artists: Pete Poplaski, , Howard money and all that. I don’(Digitalt want Edition) those $3.95 hassles and head- Kitchen Sink brand, only now Cruse, and . Art is tangiblet while intellectual aches again.http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1132 By having a joint venture with Dark Horse, John in association with Dark Horse, property is abstract. In the literary arena, you’re typically and with partner John Lind. granting or licensing rights, and negotiating contracts, and it’s a perfect kind of partnership. typically for publishing but it can involve merchandise, CBC: What’’ss after your Comix Book collection? BELOW: 2010 saw the release film rights, and so on. I happen to cross over r,, but that’s not Denis:Denis: A new edition of Kurtzman’s Jungle Book k is in pro- of his long-awaited bio/art book, typical. duction. That 1959 solo work is an absolute classic, but it’s The Oddly Compelling Art of CBC: [Pointing out the artwork for CBC #5 cover] What is been out-of-print since the previous Kitchen Sink collection Denis Kitchen, a tome actually this postcard reference? 25 years ago. This one will feature new design, a new essay 25 years in the making! Denis: Good eye, Jon. That’s an in-joke. I collect a lot of by me, new design, and Crumb has promised a new intro. All books ©2014 the respective copyright holders. thinngs, as you may have noticed, Plus we’ll recycle Art Spiegelman’s earlier intro. We’re excit- rds have turned into a ed about that one. Hopefully a new generation of comic fans ocation. That whole can appreciate Kurtzman’s genius. d you here, that’s We’re also working with Monte Beauchamp on a terrific with albums — those book called Popular Skullture, which showcases a couple with topical post- hundred skull-related covers from old comic books and anyone reading this paperbacks. Steve Heller’s doing the intro for that. I will w has old postcards in probably get in trouble if I tell you anything after those. c, or knows an Aunt CBC:CBC: Mm-hmm. And what else are you doing? Is that your ho has shoeboxes of predominantredominant focus right now w,, what you’re doing? ds, they should con- Denis:Denis: Well, I think your cover says it all. There are a few

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