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Interview with Taylor Pensoneau # ISG-A-L-2009-007.01 Interview # 1: March 11, 2009 Interviewer: Mark Depue

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Interview with Taylor Pensoneau # ISG-A-L-2009-007.01 Interview # 1: March 11, 2009 Interviewer: Mark Depue Interview with Taylor Pensoneau # ISG-A-L-2009-007.01 Interview # 1: March 11, 2009 Interviewer: Mark DePue The following material can be used for educational and other non-commercial purposes without the written permission of the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library. “Fair use” criteria of Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976 must be followed. These materials are not to be deposited in other repositories, nor used for resale or commercial purposes without the authorization from the Audio-Visual Curator at the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library, 112 N. 6th Street, Springfield, Illinois 62701. Telephone (217) 785-7955 Note to the Reader: Readers of the oral history memoir should bear in mind that this is a transcript of the spoken word, and that the interviewer, interviewee and editor sought to preserve the informal, conversational style that is inherent in such historical sources. The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library is not responsible for the factual accuracy of the memoir, nor for the views expressed therein. We leave these for the reader to judge. DePue: Today is Wednesday, March 11, 2009. My name is Mark DePue. I’m a volunteer with the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library working on a major project on Governor Jim Edgar. Today it’s my pleasure to be talking to Taylor Pensoneau. I should say as we begin this series with Taylor, first of all, good morning. Pensoneau: Good morning, Mark. DePue: We’re going to be talking today about [former Governor] Otto Kerner. I should mention Taylor has had lots of experience as a journalist; then as a lobbyist; and now as an author, a published author, of several books, always on interesting political figures and historical figures in Illinois. We’re going to talk about Otto Kerner today, and then the next time we sit down, it’s going to be Ogilvie’s administration, and then a session on Walker’s administration, and big Jim Thompson, and finally we’ll get to Jim Edgar’s administration. So I am looking forward to doing this series of interviews and learning all of this background information (laughter) about Illinois politics. It’s colorful. Would you say “colorful” is a good term to use? Pensoneau: Well, I’m glad to be talking to you, Mark. I think it’s important to record the observations of individuals like myself who have been around for a good number of years and have been privy to public events here in the state. DePue: Yes, a firsthand observer, so to speak. Taylor Pensoneau Interview # ISG-A-L-2009-007.01 Pensoneau: (laughs) I think that’s fair to say. DePue: Okay, let’s start with your life, though, and put this into some kind of a frame of reference. When and where were you born? Pensoneau: Mark, I was born October 20, 1940, in St. Elizabeth’s Hospital in Belleville, Illinois. Belleville, of course, is the seat of St. Clair County. DePue: And for those who know a little bit about Illinois history, St. Clair County is where? Pensoneau: St. Clair County is actually, in many regards, part of the greater St. Louis area. St. Clair and Madison counties, our neighboring counties, are generally considered part of the so-called Metro East, meaning the east side of the Mississippi River, that part that still comprises part of the greater St. Louis area. Geographically, it’d be in southwestern Illinois, its western boundary. Part of it is the Mississippi River. Across the Mississippi River, you have St. Louis, Missouri. DePue: Does that mean you’re a Cardinals fan? Pensoneau: Oh, yes, absolutely. (DePue laughs) Well, as I always say in talks and so on, down there, one grows up with the St. Louis Cardinals. The St. Louis Cardinals are virtually a religion in the greater St. Louis area. The bond is that strong. DePue: Baseball, but not football. Pensoneau: Baseball. Baseball. DePue: Were the St. Louis Cardinals football team playing in St. Louis at the time? Pensoneau: Oh, yeah. I remember the St. Louis Cardinals football team, sure, but the support and affinity never were there for the football Cardinals like we have seen through the decades for the St. Louis Cardinals. DePue: Yeah. What brought your family to the Belleville area? Pensoneau: It’s a good question. Well, on my dad’s side—the name Pensoneau, which is French, of course—the Pensoneaus go back a long way. They were among the early settlers in southern Illinois, actually. It’s an old— DePue: Are we talking even before statehood? Pensoneau: Yes. Oh, yes, yes, we are. The answer is yes. Right, right. Families, individuals with the name Pensoneau were among the early French settlers in 2 Taylor Pensoneau Interview # ISG-A-L-2009-007.01 that part of Illinois. 1 And I’ve never completely ascertained where in France they originated, but I was told that some of the Pensoneaus who’ve been listed in histories of St. Clair County came down through Canada and settled down there. And yes, the answer is yes, it was well before statehood. My father’s name was Leslie Pensoneau—L-e-s-l-i-e. My mother’s maiden name was Bernice Taylor—B-e-r-n-i-c-e, last name Taylor—which is, of course, where I get my first name. And Mom’s family—basically they were more recent arrivals. My mom’s grandpa Taylor, as I understand it, immigrated to the Belleville area from England, and he was in coal mining. 2 And on my mom’s side, her father as a younger man was a coal miner, working the coal mines, including, I have to believe, at one point, in one of his father’s coal mines. DePue: His father owned a coal mine? Pensoneau: I think so. That’s what I was told. Yeah, his name was John Taylor, and he was an owner, uh-huh. A son of his was named Hugh Taylor, H-u-g-h, and Hugh Taylor was the father of my mother, Bernice, so Hugh Taylor was my grandpa Taylor, obviously. Later on in life, though, as I was growing up, the coal mining segment of the family history was over with, and my grandpa Taylor worked in one of the large breweries then operating in Belleville. DePue: A brewery in Belleville? I wasn’t aware of that. Pensoneau: Mm-hmm. Oh, there was more than one. Yeah, Belleville had a number of breweries still going when I was a kid growing up, mm-hmm. DePue: What were the firm names? Pensoneau: Okay, I believe it was at the time the Stag Brewery, Stag beer. But there was also a brewery called the Star Brewery, and I think there— DePue: Star Brewery? Pensoneau: Star, yeah. Mm-hmm, still going. Yeah. I think that was the brewery; I used to swim in the brewery pond. (laughter) DePue: Don’t recommend that today? Pensoneau: No, I do not. No, no, no, no, no. I didn’t always use the best of common sense when I was a kid. Well, let’s put it that way. But— DePue: No one expected kids to, though. 1 There was a substantial French Colonial population in the area along the Mississippi River, with towns of French names. At the time of this interview, a number of Habitant log homes are being restored and re- occupied. Editor 2 Southern Illinois is still known as coal mining country. Editor 3 Taylor Pensoneau Interview # ISG-A-L-2009-007.01 Pensoneau: Well, I didn’t. (laughter) But anyway, that’s a bit of history on my mother’s side. DePue: Then your father’s ancestors had been in that area for 150 years—close—or maybe 120 before you came along. Pensoneau: Oh, yeah, yeah. No, they were among the early settlers there, Pensoneaus. In fact, I was always told the first ferry across the Mississippi River from what is now East St. Louis 3 to St. Louis was reportedly run by, quote, “Pensoneau Brothers.” At that time, of course, East St. Louis was not called East St. Louis; it was called Illinoistown. The name East St. Louis came along years later. Also, a Pensoneau, a descendant—or, excuse me, an ancestor—owned much of the land that today houses the public square in Belleville. DePue: Okay. What did your father do for a living? Pensoneau: My father—born and raised in Belleville and a lifelong resident of Belleville, as was my mother. My father ran a men’s clothing store. It was called the Toggery. I understand that was a common name for men’s clothing stores. I always say Dad was a Main Street merchant in Belleville. My father’s family was not wealthy, and I understand my dad, I think, quit high school after either his freshman or sophomore years to go to work. One of his first jobs was, he got a job as a clerk in a men’s clothing store in Belleville, and that’s how he learned the business; eventually he had his own store. DePue: What did he do during the Second World War? Pensoneau: Okay, good question—during the Second World War. My father and a cousin of his opened a clothing store as young men in Belleville prior to the start of the Second World War, all right? When the war came on, they closed the store, and my father took a job as a civilian in running what they called the Base Exchanges at Scott Field, which is near Belleville. Scott Field is today Scott Air Force Base, but back during World War II, when the Air Force was still part of the Army, it was called Scott Field.
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