ABC News 24 interview with Rania Saab August 28, 2016

Miriam Corowa: Well the past week has been all about hearing awareness, a time to acknowledge the importance of hearing health. 1 in 6 Australians are deaf, hard of hearing or live with an ear and balance condition.

Adrian Raschella: Lawyer and disability activist Rania Saab was diagnosed with severe hearing loss in early childhood. She says the main barriers she’s had to overcome have been other people’s attitudes to disability, and Rania Saab joins us now in the studio. Rania, thanks so much for coming in.

Rania Saab: Thank you for having me today.

AR: I understand that you were once told that you’d never become a lawyer because of your hearing disabilities. Is that true? Who told you that?

RS: I was referred to an Ear, Nose and Throat specialist when I was 20 because my hearing kept deteriorating, and I was sent to an ENT to look at why my hearing kept deteriorating. And when he asked me what I was studying at uni I told him Law, and he said to me, “Why? You’ll never be able to hear in a courtroom!”

MC: That seems quite extraordinary, and for you, you’d grown up as a young child diagnosed with severe hearing loss from of 3 I understand.

RS: [Nods] That’s right.

MC: You managed to function quite well I imagine up to that point, so it’s quite astonishing that you were told that while you were at university.

RS: That’s correct, and it was actually quite devastating for me because I had so much support. When I was 3 I went to the Catherine Sullivan Centre, which provides early intervention programs for babies and pre-school children that are deaf or hard of hearing. And then I went to mainstream school where I had the support of itinerant teachers all throughout my primary and high school education. And when I did my HSC I got a really good result, and that was when I thought I can do whatever it is I want to do because look at this great result I got, and you know, there’s nothing to stop me. Whereas in my teenage years I really battled with being different to other people and really struggled to come to terms with the fact that I was Deaf, because I didn’t know any other Deaf people so I didn’t have anyone else that I could relate to. So when I got that really great result in my HSC I thought great, I’m going to go out into the world, I’m going to be a lawyer, this is what I want to do. And then when I went to university it was quite disappointing because that was when I realised that actually there’s very limited support for people with disability. I really struggled to hear in the lecture rooms, particularly in the tutorials because people would just talk around the room and I had to way of keeping up. And the support there was not adequate to enable me to participate as equally as my peers who didn’t have a hearing impairment.

So when I went to see that specialist it was just like another blow to my self-esteem, and I thought, “What am I doing?” You know, it’s so hard, the big wide world is actually a really harsh place to live in and it’s not accommodating to people with disability. It does not make it easy for us to participate equally. But you know, I realised, this is my life. It’s not up to anyone else to tell me how to live my life and to dictate the terms of my life. I have a right to be here, same as everybody else, and I’m going to do whatever it takes to get to where I want to be and to do what I want to do. And I finished my law degree. And I went out I got a job, and I held that job, because it’s so important in this day and age that we show people that we can do whatever it is we want to do, and that we will be whatever it is that we want to be.

AR: And for those people that might be thinking about that comment that the Ear, Nose and Throat specialist made to you, how was it for you working in a courtroom? Could you hear OK? Could you function OK? It was all good?

RS: You know, all I needed was just some very minor adjustments. And that’s true for most people with disability. We know what we need to be able to carry out our jobs, and usually they’re very inexpensive, very minor adjustments. The courts already have a hearing loop system in place, all I need is to go to court and ask them to set it up for me and bang, I’m right on cue. I can function like any other lawyer. Again, my biggest barrier was attitudes. There were so many instances in the courtroom where people said to me, “Oh, we’re not going to set it up.” Or, you know, “We’re not going to set it up until later on in the day.” And I said, “Hang on, that’s not fair. I’m a lawyer like everybody else, my clients deserve to get on at the time they’re supposed to get on, don’t treat me less favourably than anybody else. All I need is that hearing device, all you need to do is set it up.” And it’s that easy.

MC: And I understand you’ve also had a Cochlear implant?

RS: That’s correct.

MC: So how much of a difference has that made for you?

RS: It’s made an incredible difference to me. As I was saying earlier, Miriam, my hearing loss has continued to deteriorate over the course of my life, so it got to the point in 2010 when my hearing got so bad that I actually couldn’t function with just hearing aids. And probably the worst thing about having a hearing impairment is that it’s actually very isolating. When you can’t hear people and you can’t participate in conversation, you lose that connection with people. And the majority of my family and friends are all Hearing, and I got really depressed because my hearing got so bad that I couldn’t actually hear. And I stopped going out and I stopped participating in social engagements, and I was really down. So when I got implanted at the end of 2010 it was, it is, the most incredible journey I’ve ever been on. I can hear things that I haven’t ever heard before in my life. It makes my life a lot easier.

We hear with our brains, so anyone who is deaf or hard of hearing needs to use a lot of their brain to try to follow the conversation. We get a lot more fatigued at the end of the day. So up until that point, and as my hearing kept deteriorating, my brain kept working harder and harder and harder and I was getting more exhausted, and I started suffering from migraines. Once I got implanted and once I went through the rehabilitation process, my life is so much easier. I can have a conversation with someone without lip-reading or looking at their face, I can hear things I haven’t heard before, and all those things are really important for me. Not just work-wise, particularly because I’m now a mother of 2 young children, and it was so important to me that I be able to hear as much of what they said, all those baby sounds and the conversations, it was so important to me that I be able to hear that, and have that connection to them that way. So I keep telling people; when I don’t wear my aids, I’m the deafest I’ve ever bene in my life, but when I wear them I can hear the best I’ve ever heard, and I have the best of both worlds. I love being Deaf, I do love being Deaf. It’s a great place to be.

AR: That’s a nice message to send out there, I understand that current statistics say that 1 in 6 Australians have some sort of hearing loss, and predict that by 2050, 1 in 4, a quarter of all Australians, will have some sort of hearing loss. That’s a staggering figure really.

RS: It is, and it ties in with the fact that we have an ageing population, it ties in with the fact that, and this is this year’s Hearing Awareness Week theme, is hearing is precious and fragile, and that ties in with the fact that a lot of our young people these days are wearing lots of audio equipment, and they’re actually damaging their hearing. And so what we would do is we would encourage everyone to get their hearing checked regularly, and we would also urge the government to make hearing a national health priority.

MC: And given that it is the second biggest health issue for Australians you’re absolutely right. And for you, what is your message for people who perhaps are in a situation where they’re struggling with their disability, though for you, you embrace it, you said it’s something that is part of your life and you wouldn’t want to be any other way, because you mentioned it’s quite isolating. How do you turn that around?

RS: I think it’s really important to reach out to other people in the community, and there’s always, there’s lots of organisations that are there to help deaf and hard of hearing people and people with disability in general. So I think it’s always important to reach out to the relevant organisation. We’ve got deafness forum, we’ve got so many organisations in . If you’re thinking about a Cochlear implant contact the Sydney Cochlear Implant Centre, amazing people, amazing audiologists there. Also try and get in contact with other people that are deaf or hard of hearing. I know for me that I kind of felt a sense of relief when I met my Deaf friends several years ago because I’ve got people that I can relate to and vice-versa. And there are lots of programs these days that will help people from, you know, pre-school age at the Catherine Sullivan Centre, straight through to school, and there’s mentoring program like Hear For You, there’s so many organisations out there that will help, it’s just about getting in contact with those people.

And the other organisation that I would like to mention because they made a world of difference to me when I was at university when I was going through all those struggles was The Australian Network on Disability. They offered mentoring programs and work experience programs to people with disability and that was what made me realise that I could do the job. Because of course I had my self-doubts. Here I was fighting off the critics saying, “Oh no, no I’ll do what I want to do”, when in the middle of the night I’m thinking, “How will I hear in the courtroom?” And then I did these work experience programs with the Australian Network of Disability and I realised, actually it’s not that hard. ‘Cause you’re battling yourself, and at the same time battling other people, and you don’t know what it’s going to be like. And that’s why it’s so important getting in contact with other people that have the same disability as you, because they’ll be able to kind of take your hand and lead you through that journey and say to you, “You know what, it’s fine. The issues that you think are an issue for you are in the minds of people without disability are really not issues.”

MC: Rania Saab it’s been wonderful to hear about your experience and of course great to find out that there are a lot of services out there for people needing support. Wonderful to speak to you, thank you so much.

RS: Thank you so much both.

AR: Thanks Rania.