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LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND TRANSPORT COMMITTEE Tuesday 28 September 2004 Session 2 £5.00 Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body 2004. Applications for reproduction should be made in writing to the Licensing Division, Her Majesty’s Stationery Office, St Clements House, 2-16 Colegate, Norwich NR3 1BQ Fax 01603 723000, which is administering the copyright on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Produced and published in Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body by Astron. CONTENTS Tuesday 28 September 2004 Col. INTERESTS ......................................................................................................................................... 1115 DEPUTY CONVENER ............................................................................................................................. 1115 TRANSPORT (SCOTLAND) ACT 2001 INQUIRY .......................................................................................... 1116 LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND TRANSPORT COMMITTEE 20th Meeting 2004, Session 2 CONVENER *Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab) DEPU TY CONVENER *Bruce Craw ford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) COMMI TTEE MEMBERS Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP) Dr Sylvia Jac kson (Stirling) (Lab) *Michael McMahon (Hamilton North and Bellshill) (Lab) *Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab) *David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con) *Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow ) (SSP) Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD) COMMI TTEE SUBSTITU TES Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab) Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP) Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP) Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) John Farquhar Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD) *attended THE FOLLOWING ALSO ATTENDED : Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab) THE FOLLOWING GAVE EVIDENCE: Gordon Dew ar (FirstGroup plc) Rodney Dickinson (FirstGroup plc) Douglas Ferguson (Strathclyde Passenger Transport) Iain Greenshields (Glasgow City Council) George Heaney (Strathclyde Passenger Transport) Andy Preece (National Federation of Bus Users) Brian Souter (Stagecoach Group plc) CLERK TO THE COMMITTEE Eugene Windsor SENIOR ASSISTANT CLERK Alastair Macfie ASSISTANT CLERK Euan Donald LOC ATION Moir Hall, Glasgow 1115 28 SEPTEMBER 2004 1116 Scottish Parliament Transport (Scotland) Act 2001 Inquiry Local Government and Transport Committee 09:41 Tuesday 28 September 2004 The Convener: The Local Government and Transport Committee has come to Glasgow today because we decided to review the way in which [THE CONVENER opened the meeting at 09:39] the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001 is operating and to find out whether it is having a positive impact on bus services throughout Scotland. We particularly Interests wanted to examine bus quality partnerships and quality contracts in order to ascertain why there The Convener (Bristow Muldoon): I call the has been very little progress on their meeting to order. Before we get into the main part implementation. We want to know whether that is of the meeting, which is consideration of the due to deficiencies in the legislation and whether impact that the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001 has further reform is necessary to improve the way in had on bus services in Scotland, we will deal with which bus services operate in Scotland. the new members who have been appointed to the Local Government and Transport Committee. One As part of today’s formal committee meeting we of those new members is Bruce Crawford. I will hear from Brian Souter of Stagecoach Group welcome Bruce to the committee and thank plc and from representatives of FirstGroup plc and Andrew Welsh for the excellent service that he Strathclyde Passenger Transport. Later today, we gave to the committee since the election. At this will have a public participation session, for which I point, I ask Bruce Crawford whether he has any hope many members of the public will stay to take relevant interests. part. I know that there are many other people apart from those in the public gallery who will take Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) part. Anyone who is here and who wants to take (SNP): No, I have no relevant interests to declare, part in that session should make themselves thank you. known to Scottish Parliament staff so that we can record your name and allow you to take part. Deputy Convener Our first witness is Brian Souter, who is chief executive of Stagecoach. I invite you to make some introductory remarks, after which members will ask questions. 09:40 The Convener: The next item is associated with Brian Souter (Stagecoach Group plc): One of the previous one in that Andrew Welsh was the the reasons why I came along today is that I think previous deputy convener of the committee, so we that the Transport (Scotland) Act 2001 has had a must appoint a new deputy convener. That significant effect on our company and there have position on the Local Government and Transport been some positive developments since its Committee has been allocated to the Scottish enactment. We also believe that there is great National Party. I understand that the SNP has potential to follow up on quality partnerships and decided to nominate Bruce Crawford as the to develop the networks even more. deputy convener. Is the committee agreed that In our submission, we draw attention to several Bruce Crawford be chosen as deputy convener? things that we have experienced that are worth Members indicated agreement. sharing. We also draw attention to some project work that we have been doing during the period Bruce Crawford was chosen as deputy since enactment. In our experience, the extension convener. of the concession scheme has been a big stimulus The Convener: Congratulations, Bruce. I look to growth. It has been embraced by passengers forward to working for you—I mean with you—in and there has, particularly in the provincial part of the period ahead. our network, been a modal shift from private cars because people have bus passes. The concession scheme has had a positive environmental effect and a positive social inclusion impact. We believe that, as a bang for the buck, the concession scheme has been one of the best uses of public money in public transport, and we 1117 28 SEPTEMBER 2004 1118 recommend that the scheme be followed in because specifically Scottish policy means that we England. The only drawback to the scheme is that can perhaps run faster here than we can in the it is fractionalised and is not a national scheme, rest of the United Kingdom. Indeed, I am here but we understand that work is being done on that today partly because I think that what Parliament at the moment; we encourage the completion of has done to date has been very good and I feel that work. that there is tremendous potential. We have also experienced full-fare-paying As for our other experiments, we are evaluating passenger growth, which is very encouraging. a new electric bus, which demonstrates our That is particularly true of Stagecoach Western, environmental awareness and our keenness to into which we have put about 30 additional develop new technology, and we have also trialled buses—in fact, I think it was more like 40 or 45 a taxibus in Dunfermline. We have spent £2 million additional buses by the time we finished. There on research and development in the past year and has been very strong passenger growth there, and will publish the results of those projects because it is continuing. We have been surprised at the we think that they will be of wider interest and that strength of the growth: last year it was 10 per cent they show good potential. and growth continues at 3 to 4 per cent on top of The megabus.com website has been very that. As a result, cumulative growth has been very popular in Scotland and has produced some strong and has been bolstered by new investment fascinating results. We discovered that 35 per cent in some of our key corridors. of bus users are new; they have left their cars There has also been very strong growth in our behind and are trying public transport for the first provincial network. For example, in Fife, where we time. In Perth, we found that people were booking already had a free scheme, we had passenger seats on the web, driving to our park-and-ride growth of about 1 or 2 per cent. That is good, facility, which until then had been used only for because historically that network was in decline. going into the town, and then travelling to We are greatly encouraged by the pattern of Edinburgh and Glasgow. We picked up on this usage. There has also been very strong growth in idea through our business in the United States, Stagecoach Bluebird. where we have commercial park-and-ride facilities and where people travel very long distances into New York. We think that we can move the park- 09:45 and-ride cordon much further out and get people We have initiated quite a number of to use long-distance park and ride, which would experiments. For example, with our kick start save a lot more miles for the environment and get project, we relaunched a service with saturation people out of their cars much sooner. All those marketing and followed it up with sophisticated measures are very interesting and have great marketing. We phoned non-users and offered potential. We believe that the Executive’s policies them a week’s free travel to try out the services. so far have been very positive. After four years of the project, there has been more than 75 per cent passenger growth on a On the question of why more partnerships do service in Perth alone. That quite exceptional and not exist, the answer is that it takes time to remarkable result leads us to believe that, if we establish them. Moreover, we do not have an profile the service properly and use kick start, we official partnership in some areas where the best can have very strong passenger growth. We have progress has been made.
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