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Legislative Assembly 1271 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Wednesday 10 April 2002 ______ Mr Speaker (The Hon. John Henry Murray) took the chair at 10.00 a.m. Mr Speaker offered the Prayer. DEATH OF HAROLD GEORGE COATES, OBE, A FORMER MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Mr SPEAKER: It is with regret that I inform the House of the death on 9 April 2002 of Harold George Coates, a former member of the Legislative Assembly who represented the electorates of Hartley and Blue Mountains from 1 May 1965 to 2 April 1976. Harold was the Treasurer of the Former Members Association since its formation. On behalf of the House I have extended to the family the deep sympathy of the Legislative Assembly in the loss sustained. Members and officers of the House stood in their places. RACING LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (BOOKMAKERS) BILL Second Reading Debate resumed from 19 March. Mr ARMSTRONG (Lachlan) [10.02 a.m.]: I lead on behalf of the Opposition. This is the first debate I have had the opportunity to participate in since my appointment as the shadow Minister for Gaming and Racing. I have looked forward to this appointment for some time, and I look forward to working with and participating in the colourful and important racing industry, which in New South Wales comprises the three codes of greyhound, harness and thoroughbred racing. The racing industry is a major employer and entertainer and a major generator of income and contributor towards the wealth of this State. Further, greyhound and horse racing are very much a part of the culture of New South Wales. I look forward to working with the Minister for Gaming and Racing, whom I know very well. We will work for the betterment of the industry at all times, despite the fact that, no doubt, we will hurl a few hand grenades at each other from time to time in this place. The Opposition, after extensive consideration of this matter and rigorous debate—lasting no longer than three minutes—decided to support the legislation, for a few simple reasons. As I have said, racing is an important industry in this State. One area that has made racing successful in this country has been the continuity of bookmaking in the old British tradition. I believe that bookmaking began in Britain. We have had healthy debates about the need for bookmakers. The industry has always had colourful characters, and a race meeting without a bookmaker is not a race meeting. I have been to a race meeting without bookmakers in Hong Kong and in Malaysia, where there was electronic betting and electronic horses. The races were run on a screen. The meeting was as dull as yesterday's newspaper. There was no character or spirit. We need bookmakers for no other reason than to add colour and excitement to race meetings and to cater for Australians of Irish backgrounds and other backgrounds who enjoy a bit of humour. Bookmakers are an integral and essential part of a successful racing industry. As the Minister said in his second reading speech, in recent times there have been significant threats to the future of bookmakers and the bookmaking industry because of interstate rivalry, particularly from the Northern Territory and the Australian Capital Territory. Recently, the Northern Territory racing industry has been expanded by the migration of a couple of New South Wales bookmakers—I believe Mark Read was one such bookmaker who went to Darwin—and the creation of Centrebet out of Alice Springs. Those businesses have grown. More importantly, there is an intention—I believe it may have already happened—that Ladbrokes and Hills, two of the largest betting organisations in the world, will have access to the racing industry through the Northern Territory. It is a simple equation: if we allow the racing industry turnover in New South Wales to be captured in part by other States, let alone by international companies, then we damage the viability of our racing industry 1272 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY 10 April 2002 and we will probably lose the bookmakers. First, we lose the income; second, we damage the future of the industry; and, third, we take out the colour and character that bookmakers add to the racing industry. As the Minister indicated in his second reading speech, the bill will allow bookmakers to form their operations into companies. The Opposition does not oppose the process that would apply in that regard. Previously the three controlling bodies of racing could register or license only individuals as bookmakers. The bill provides bookmakers with the option of structuring their operations as a proprietary company. Persons who are licensed as bookmakers with one of the three racing controlling bodies will be able to apply for registration as a bookmaker company within the same controlling body. That is the key to the whole process. Part of the objects of the bill is to provide that any debt incurred by a company in carrying on business as a bookmaker so authorised is enforceable jointly and severally against all persons who are directors of the company at the time the debt is incurred. That is a very important part of the legislation. Gambling is gambling and many a punter has lost his money. But sometimes the bookmaker loses his money too. It is essential that bookmakers are able to honour their debts. On that basis, the Opposition supports the bill. To put a personal view, I would like both the bookmaking industry and, in particular the TAB, to pay more attention to the communication process with the public and first-time racegoers. All of us go to the races at some stage in our lives for the first time. With the complexity of particularly totalisator betting these days, the opportunities to place bets are enormous. There are seven or eight different ways to place a bet, but it is a bit of a closed shop in its spreading of the knowledge. I would like to have endeavours made to educate or encourage the public to gain a better understanding of the betting processes so that they can also join in the great variety of opportunities and enjoy the excitement of the racing industry. That is another aspect in relation to bookmakers. Honourable members have often seen a punter ask a bookmaker at a track how to place a $2 bet on a horse at odds of two to one, to try to walk away with $5. The bookmaker will often give the punter another point—not another 500 points— because it is their first bet. Opening up the closed shop would be a service to the racing industry, particularly in the TAB in country towns. For example, touch screens, which were very popular during the Olympics and were in the foyer of Parliament House, could be used. After much deliberation and on that basis the Opposition has decided not to oppose this legislation and will not be calling for any divisions. Mr McGRANE (Dubbo) [10.10 a.m.]: I support the Racing Legislation Amendment (Bookmakers) Bill and endorse the words of the honourable member for Lachlan in relation to the racing industry. I also endorse what the Minister said in his second reading speech. If I were in another place, for example, in local government, I would have to declare a pecuniary interest. I would have to say that I have and do own horses and harness racers, and I have owned dogs. It is a great sport. A lot of people love harness racing, horse racing and the dogs. Bookmakers play an integral part in the colourful part of the lifestyle of Australians. They have been with us for a long time and since the introduction of other agencies it is more competitive for a bookmaker to survive. We all say that bookmakers are wealthy because if we punt regularly we tend to lose. It is a fact of life that at all levels the bookmaking industry is declining. The number of bookmakers at the various races is on the decline for a number of reasons—because of the TAB and interstate operations and the taxes being paid to the State Government. It is refreshing to know that the Minister has come to grips with the problem and will try to curb the decline in the number of bookmakers. I, like the previous speaker, have been to overseas race meetings where there are no bookmakers and where bets are placed at the TAB and the Tote. It is colourless compared with having seen bookmakers give that extra odd, which gives more thrill to the gamble at a track. Whether the horse wins or loses it is always a challenge to get the right odds when punting, something that is not available through the TAB and other agencies. As the honourable member for Lachlan said, the ways that bets can be placed these days is complex and there is a need for the TAB and the Tote to explain to the general public these new and confusing innovative methods. In other States a much better explanation of these competitive methods is given compared with New South Wales. The racing industry depends on owners of animals without which there would be no industry. Presently owners and trainers are drifting out of New South Wales to Victoria because of the prize money offered there compared to New South Wales. That problem does not relate to this bill but it will be detrimental to having quality racing in New South Wales because of the prize money being offered in other States. Owners chase the prize money because of the large amount of money that has to be paid these days for quality horses and harness racing animals.
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