BBC WORLDWIDE 11/17
JAMES NORTON
Q: What appealed to you about this project?
A: When we talk about the Mafia, it is so tied up with those portrayals which we're so used to in The Sopranos and The Godfather. But what's so lovely and fascinating and so relevant about this story is that it shows how the Mafia is a totally new phenomenon.
Q: Tell us more.
A: The Mafia is now a totally globalised corporate entity. It straddles all these different countries and financial systems. It is no longer just a protection racket. It's the Panama Papers, it's corrupt presidents and prime ministers, it's even in the possible link between the Kremlin and the White House and how that's facilitated. That was what was a real eye-opener for me, and I hope that's what the show will reveal.
Q: Does McMafia show that crime pays?
A: No, it’s more nuanced than that. The audience are taken on a journey into the world of crime through Alex’s eyes. It is fascinating, and it's kind of sexy and empowering because there is this whole underworld of people who don't abide by the rules and do what the hell they want - and it's exciting. You get seduced by it, but you're never quite sure how much you're being seduced.
Q: Can you please amplify that?
A: Alex convinces himself that it's about protection and it's about survival, but there's another side to it, and the beauty of Hossein's writing is that Alex and the audience are never quite sure. Each choice Alex makes - is it to do with survival or is it a bit more to do with the fact that he just wants to go deeper and deeper and gather more control and money? So, McMafia is brilliant because it’s never about villains and heroes - it's all about that wonderful mess in between.
Q: Does that also contribute to the ambiguous portrait of Alex as an anti-hero?
A: Yes. In the beginning, he doesn't have a choice, and you're left as an audience member going, 'OK, I totally understand he has to make that choice'. And then at a certain point you’re not sure, and you're going, 'Would I make that choice? Maybe my choice would be different'. And then later on you're going, 'How the hell did I end up here?' As an audience member, you're never quite sure where you stand.
Q: Do we all have similarities with the outlook of these Mafiosi?
A: Yes, these mobsters are all just like us - they're looking out for each other. Of course, they have a slightly warped version, and their moral compass is slightly different from ours, but their priorities are the same. They need to put food on the table, they need to survive. So what's great is that you're never really sure where your allegiance lies as an audience member. You're thrown all over the place.
Q: All the same, doesn’t McMafia run the risk of glamorising criminals? A: No. What's great about the writing is that for every character who's living the high life, you also see the women being trafficked, the drugs going through Mumbai and 50,000 addicts who are suffering. So yes, there is a glamour to it, but equally it's always qualified by the cost.
Q: Finally, what is it about the world of the gangster that remains so gripping to outsiders?
A: We're all fascinated by this compelling world of the Mafia. It's that slightly subversive, dark underworld. We're all obsessed about it in various forms - in books, film, TV. Look at popularity of The Godfather. It's the anarchic quality of those people who live on the fringes of criminality which we all as law-abiding citizens find fascinating.
JULIET RYLANCE
Q: What first attracts Rebecca to Alex?
A: There's always something attractive about a family that's as dynamic and different as Alex’s. His family is so different from anything that Rebecca's been around before.
Q: What else?
A: I think the biggest thing for Rebecca is the fact that she and Alex met at a major global bank. Rebecca has this huge desire to pursue ethical capitalism and wants to see whether there's actually a way that we can live more ethically in a capitalist society. Alex and Rebecca probably had a number of conversations about that and had similar views about wanting to do things differently. So one of the big, big driving attractions for her is that, when they meet, at the beginning of the story, he really makes a choice not to go down the same route as the family. I think the bravery and courage to do that is something that she really admires in him. Which obviously paves the way for some real drama as the story continues!
Q: How much do we see Rebecca drawn into that world as the series goes on?
A: I think Rebecca is unwittingly drawn in, and the big conflict for her throughout the story is: How much do you sacrifice what you believe in or put yourself in an area of potential danger for the sake of your relationship with the person you love? So, I think the biggest conflict for her is how much she puts herself first, or him first, or the relationship first.
Q: As an actress, how do you make a morally upright person interesting?
A: It's a little bit like joy and sorrow. You can't really experience sorrow unless you've experienced joy, and I think that it's the same with Rebecca. If there's a desire to be morally upright in some way, it's probably because you've been the other way at some point in your life, in however small or big a way. I think we all as human beings have that constant dilemma of: ‘What do I want for me and what's actually best for the family around me and the people around me, society, community?’ That's a push and pull that we all deal with on a daily basis. And that's something that Rebecca thinks about a lot.
Q: Has the theme of the show changed the way that you see the world?
A: Well, it's timely, isn't it, this show? I think we've become more and more aware of just how interconnected we are globally and financially, in terms of power and cyber terrorism and all those things that are going on at the moment in the political arena. I think the show really runs brilliantly alongside all of that, and it is pretty enlightening talking to Misha Glenny about the book and seeing these incredible stories in this piece. I had no idea about all the trafficking that Misha researched, and it's a bit mind-blowing.
Q: Do you think the international appeal of McMafia comes from the fact that all countries essentially have similar problems? A: Yes, I do. I'm also fascinated to see how each country responds to our British take on their country, their society and the dynamic of where they're from. I think the director James Watkins has been really clever in fighting to cast as many real Russian and Israeli actors. I think that we're getting a real take on those cultures and the interactions of those cities. So I'm hoping that viewers everywhere will say, 'Oh, yeah, that feels like where I'm from'.
FAYE MARSAY
Q: Has Katya rejected her Russian roots? A: Yes. Katya feels more English than she does Russian, and she rebels against the Russian side. She's misunderstood and isn't really allowed to be herself. I think Katya's quite confused about where she fits into this family and the society she's been brought up in. Because she was three when she came over to the UK, I think she finds it hard to stick with the Russian traditions. She doesn't want to speak Russian at home, and she's kind of the black sheep of the family. So Katya's journey is about figuring out where she fits in within this kind of mad family and how she wants to identify.
Q: You played a very physical character in Game of Thrones. Is Katya going to have some action sequences?
F: No, she is completely different to any character I've done before. She’s very RP, very well spoken, very girly-girly, very strongly feminine. I usually play nutcases or punks or whatever, so it's been a challenge.
Q: Tell us more.
A: I'm from a working-class background, so it's nice to live in the shoes of that kind of world where there's money and I'm well-spoken and educated. It's been fun, you know. Not that I'm not educated! I definitely went to school!
Q: Does Katya wear designer clothes?
A: Yes, but I don't think it's like, 'I love clothes'. It's just how she was brought up. It's not like, 'I must have these shoes, I'm going to have a party'. She's not like that. She's quite vulnerable and quite broken, actually, a kind of insecure girl. The clothes are just because she's got the money.
Q: What is James like to work with?
F: He's a lovely, lovely man. I’d never met him before. I read lots of things about him obviously and seen him in lots of stuff. He's confident but not in an annoying way. He never makes you feel left out, he always includes you. He's a great actor as well, and he's got a fantastic work ethic. So it's a joy to be around James. He's got it all, really!
Q: McMafia has already been sold all around the world. How does that feel, knowing how many people will see it?
F: I never really think about that, to be honest, otherwise I probably wouldn't do it! That's quite a scary thought. I don't usually watch things that I'm in. But the script's so good in this, I will definitely be tuning in. I think I'll just watch like this when I'm in it [puts fingers over eyes]. It is wonderful that it is reaching such a wide audience now. That's really exciting!
HOSSEIN AMINI Q: What drew you to McMafia?
A: The book is factual and there are no story lines as such, but what was really exciting is that the world which Misha’s book painted was so interesting. It was such a potentially exciting canvas. The book gave us great characters and a great world, and it's easy to invent scenes for that. Literally none of the characters in the drama is historic, and they don’t exist in the book. But the book really appealed because its tone is so authentic. It felt to me like it was that whole thing of 'truth is always more interesting than fiction'.
Q: Is the thrust of the drama that the Mafia is undergoing a renaissance?
A: Yes. I've always loved the gangster genre, but even shows like The Sopranos, which I loved, are all about the end of that genre and the end of the gangster. They told us about the death of that in the 1990s. But then I read this book, and it was all about how gangsters were being reborn globally. Suddenly the triads were dealing with the cartels who were competing with the Russian Mafia. It was like Game of Thrones with mobs.
Q: Can you please describe the show’s central character, Alex? A: Alex is really an anti-hero in the sense that he's charming, but there's definitely a dark side to him. He surprises you more and more over the course of the series by almost embracing this area of work he's entering.
Q: Is the alarming reality that the apparent respectability of these new-age gangsters makes them extremely hard to spot? A: Yes. I suddenly thought, ‘These people could be sitting next to me while I'm having dinner in a restaurant, or staying at the same hotel.’ And so the idea was to be able to drop the audience into something that feels familiar.
Q: Can you expand on that? A: If you’re in a hotel or a lobby in Russia, other people could be sitting right next to you while you’re having meetings. That's the thesis in Misha's book - that it's much closer to us than we know. It's not this heightened world where gangsters are all movie clichés. Actually, they look more like bankers and are totally unexpected and surprising.
Q: But for all their seeming propriety, these gangsters still make more money in a day than you or I could ever dream of earning in a lifetime, don’t they?
A: Absolutely. There are statistics which say that during the economic collapse of 2008, it was black money from gangs and drugs that was keeping the economy afloat. So this criminal business is massive both in terms of its presence, but also its financial reach. The cocaine industry has become one of the most lucrative. If you'd invested in a top hedge fund you'd probably have made 30% over the last few years. With cocaine, it's 3000%.
Q: Does the attention to detail in McMafia underline the authenticity of the drama?
A: I hope so. Misha told us about a gangster whose hobby is going to dog shows. I could never have invented that. Did that make it in to the series? Yes, yes! It's in. You can't ignore a thing like that!
JAMES WATKINS
Q: Does this drama show how gangsters have changed recently?
A: Yes. What we're saying is that the battles and crimes are in the boardrooms and through the spreadsheets. It’s the corporatisation of crime. Thematically there's a notion that's relevant here about corporates becoming criminal and criminals becoming corporate, and who knows where the lines lie.
Q: How would you characterise Alex?
A: Alex is fascinating because, in terms of the core of his character, there's this notion of the Russian bear in the bowler hat. Obviously, that's an antiquated way of looking at it, but it's that idea that comes up in speeches about Alex. There's one speech where Rebecca says, 'You look like you're civilised, but you're actually a savage within'.
Q: Tell us more.
A: It's that sense that on the surface he's a very handsome, well brought up young man, who's been through this public-school system which makes him polished, but what's interesting is what's underneath. It's the collision of the two - letting out that savagery, that Nietzschean power or revenge thing, whatever it is that's burning inside of him.
Q: Was it important to have Russian actors playing Russian characters and Israeli actors playing Israeli characters?
A: Yes. There was a big conversation which we had with AMC and BBC first off which is that I didn't want to do that thing where, not naming any other productions, you cast a big-name British actor to play Alex’s Russian dad. It feels false straight away - I can smell it. It's costing us quite a lot to fly all the actors in, but it's worth it in terms of the reality it gives. When you've got four actors from Tel Aviv playing a scene in Hebrew, you can't fake that.
Q: So this approach enhances the verisimilitude of the project?
A: Definitely. It’s fantastic, because as a director you want truth. This is not about heightened drama - it's about truth. It's about understated performance, and I think some of those European actors really bring that. I don't know what's in the water, but it's really amazing. Less is more.
Q: Have you enjoyed filming all over London?
Q: Yes. We've shot at the top of the Sky Garden, at the top of the Walkie-Talkie building, and we had a huge Russian banquet scene in the Victoria and Albert Museum. We were in one of the Raphael Rooms there. We're trying to use London as this city where anybody can buy their way in.
Q: What do you hope that viewers will take away from McMafia? A: You look around you and realise crime is everywhere. The point of the book and the series, really, is that it's invisible, but that it's all around us. We're all, in some way, complicit. If someone buys a fake watch, say, they’re part of the problem. Or look at illegal labour. That affects people in ways that they don't necessarily realise. McMafia is about the blurring of those lines between governments, corporations, intelligence, police, criminals. Particularly in a ‘post-truth’ world, people aren't clear what those boundaries are.
Q: Does this drama feel very topical? A: Absolutely. I think McMafia is very timely. For me, the best drama has some kind of grip on the world and touches on that. I hope that it is not only entertaining, but also that on the way home, or in the pub, people talk about it. It's not Chekhov, but you're hoping it has something that has a little bit of grit.
END