COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY STUDY on WHITE PEOPLE The
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COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY STUDY ON WHITE PEOPLE The Reminiscences of Alexis Stark INCITE Columbia University 2017 PREFACE The following oral history is the result of a recorded interview with Alexis Stark conducted by Whitney Dow on September 23, 2017. This interview is part of the Study on White People. The reader is asked to bear in mind that they are reading a verbatim transcript of the spoken word, rather than written prose. 3PM Session #1 (video) Interviewee: Alexis Stark Location: Battle Creek, MI Interviewer: Whitney Dow Date: September 23, 2017 Q: [unclear]. Okay, so you’re just going to talk to me right here. Stark: Okay. Q: So first of all, can you tell me your name, where you’re from, what you do and a little bit about yourself? Stark: [13:26:09] Okay. My name is Alexis Stark. I grew up most of my life in Michigan. Well, we moved to Michigan when I was three and settled in Albion, Michigan, when I was seven. And then I grew up there and went to Western Michigan University for my degree in choral education, and now I am teaching private voice lessons and performing as much as I can in the area. [Interruption] Q: Nice. I need one thing. You’ve only got a flyaway hair that I’m going to smooth out here. Stark: That happens all the time. Q: Yeah, yeah. There you go. So you said Albion? Stark – Session 1 – 4 Stark: Yes. Q: Can you tell me a little bit about Albion? What’s that community like? Stark: It’s one of the— Q: [unclear]. Stark: —many. Oh, yeah. Q: In Albion, it’s [unclear]. Stark: [13:26:58] Growing up in Albion, it was one of the many shrinking cities in Michigan. I remember when I got there we had four elementary schools and a middle school and a high school and a Catholic school. And I know that now they only have—well, they don’t even have an Albion community school anymore. They all bus to Marshall. So growing up in Albion, I was aware that the city’s population was shrinking, and it was a rather economically depressed area for Michigan. But most of Michigan, at the time, was also an economically depressed area. But Albion is also a rather diverse community. Growing up, half of the population was black, and the other half was white. We had a few, you know, Hispanic, Latino people living in the community and a few Arab American people living in the community, but it was mostly this dichotomy of the white population and the black population. Stark – Session 1 – 5 Q: Is that typical of neighborhoods in this area that it would be integrated like that? Stark: [13:28:08] Well, no. I mean, most of the smaller cities in Michigan, I think, are mostly white. You have to come to slightly bigger cities like Battle Creek or Kalamazoo to have a more noticeable black population. And I don’t know if Albion is as integrated. You know, there are black neighborhoods and white neighborhoods, so it’s still somewhat segregated. But at the schools, you know, there were so few choices that at least the schools weren’t segregated. Every school had black students and white students I think at about the same rates. Q: How did growing up in an integrated community like Albion shape your understanding of your own race? Stark: [13:28:58] I always knew I was white. I’m a particularly pale white person, and my best friend actually was a black girl named Alexis as well. We met when we were on the bus going home and we realized that we had the same name. And so, of course, as second graders, that’s enough to make a friendship. And so growing up, I would hang out with my white friends or with my black friends. I was aware that - I could see that some families just had different ways of expressing themselves. I remember being at a birthday party for one of my black friends, and there were mostly other black kids there at the party and thinking that it was louder than it was at my house. Stark – Session 1 – 6 But on the other hand, they liked to play with toys and interact in similar ways too, but I thought there might be some differences between what my black friends experienced at home and what I experienced at home. But it was really cool, though. I was also aware that, like, the neighboring cities did not have large black populations, so that I knew that I was getting an experience that other people in other communities weren’t getting. So I kind of liked that, and I thought it was kind of special for our community. Q: What motivated you to get involved with this project? Stark: [13:30:28] Well, actually, I don’t know if I knew that this was the topic for this project. I think my understanding was more that it was about, like, declining populations in Michigan and, you know, the flight of people out of the state, which I had ideas about too. So I think that was more what I thought the thing was about, but then when I read the survey earlier today, I thought, “Oh, well, now I’m even more interested.” Q: And why were you even more interested? Stark: [13:30:58] Because I think I have something to say about, you know, having the experiences that I have and knowing that even though I grew up with a lot of exposure to black people, but I still think that I have probably some stereotypes just that get perpetrated [perpetuate?] in the news and in culture kind of en masse that I still think I have some prejudices that might come. If I’m walking down the street and there’s a taller black guy walking by, maybe my heart will start beating faster. And so even though I grew up with that exposure, I don’t think Stark – Session 1 – 7 that I’m immune to the stereotypes that still exist. So I was really intrigued by the idea of this project, and I think it’s really important. Q: How does it make you feel when you have those reactions and the prejudices that you feel, despite the fact that you, intellectually, seem to have a pretty good handle on your relationship to race? Stark: [13:32:17] Yeah, when that happens, when I think I’m succumbing to some sort of deep- seated, lingering prejudice, it upsets me. I don’t like that, and I wish that it wouldn’t happen. I wish that whatever subconscious feelings that I have were as smart as the superconscious feelings that I have, that I know that it’s not more likely for a black person to be a danger. It’s just something that has been in the culture for long enough that it’s in me, and I don’t like that. Q: When you talk about being white, what do you think it is that makes someone white? Stark: [13:33:20] Well, obviously, my skin tone is a lot closer to an actual white. I’m not exactly white. I have pink and the slightest tan but not much. So, physically, I am quite - very white, and my friends that I grew up with darker skin, even my white friends with darker skin, you know, it looks really, [laughs] really big contrast. So there’s obviously a cosmetic factor to it. But on the other hand, we all have the same DNA, so I know that it’s more of a social construct. But because I’m so white I don’t know that I have the distinction in my brain yet of white culture versus nonwhite culture. So for me, it’s about the look right now. Stark – Session 1 – 8 Q: Because of social construct, does that make it any less real? Stark: [13:34:36] I guess not. I mean, black people are still going to be treated differently, and they don’t even have to be very dark skinned. So it’s very real for the experiences that they’ll have to go through. And probably for whatever privileges that I get, it’s very real for that too. Q: You know, absolutely people say that race is social construct as if somehow that erases the reality of it— Stark: Right. Q: —and maybe they’re just trying to erase the justification. But that sort of [unclear] opinion, that’s something a lot of people will talk about. Stark: Yeah. Q: I’m always a little bit confused by it because it’s so clearly something— Stark: Yeah. Q: —that actually has—The fact that there’s social construct doesn’t change people’s experience with it. Stark – Session 1 – 9 Stark: [13:35:20] Exactly. The experiences are going to happen regardless of if all of our DNA is the same or if race really is an actual genetic thing. Q: Can you describe an experience where you became really hyperconscious of your race? Stark: [13:35:44] I actually used to substitute teach a lot when I first graduated from college. Like most post grads, I floundered for a little bit, and so substitute teaching was a really great, available and sustainable sort of job for quite a while. And so I actually did a lot of substitute teaching at my old schools in Albion.