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Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 27th Legislature Third Session Standing Committee on the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:01 a.m. Transcript No. 27-3-3 Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 27th Legislature Third Session Standing Committee on the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund Tarchuk, Janis, Banff-Cochrane (PC), Chair Elniski, Doug, Edmonton-Calder (PC), Deputy Chair Blakeman, Laurie, Edmonton-Centre (AL) DeLong, Alana, Calgary-Bow (PC) Forsyth, Heather, Calgary-Fish Creek (WA) Groeneveld, George, Highwood (PC) Johnston, Art, Calgary-Hays (PC) MacDonald, Hugh, Edmonton-Gold Bar (AL) Pastoor, Bridget Brennan, Lethbridge-East (AL)* Quest, Dave, Strathcona (PC) * substitution for Laurie Blakeman Department of Finance and Enterprise Participants Aaron Brown Director, Portfolio Management Sandie Hay Manager, Investment Accounting and Standards Nick Kaczmarek Public Affairs Officer Rod Matheson Assistant Deputy Minister, Treasury and Risk Management Dave Pappas Senior Manager, Investment and Debt Accounting Alberta Investment Management Corporation Participants Brian Gibson Senior Vice-president, Public Equities Douglas Stratton Senior Vice-president, Fund Management Group Auditor General’s Office Participants Merwan Saher Auditor General Brad Ireland Assistant Auditor General Support Staff W.J. David McNeil Clerk Louise J. Kamuchik Clerk Assistant/Director of House Services Micheline S. Gravel Clerk of Journals/Table Research Robert H. Reynolds, QC Law Clerk/Director of Interparliamentary Relations Shannon Dean Senior Parliamentary Counsel/Clerk of Committees Corinne Dacyshyn Committee Clerk Jody Rempel Committee Clerk Karen Sawchuk Committee Clerk Rhonda Sorensen Manager of Corporate Communications and Broadcast Services Melanie Friesacher Communications Consultant Tracey Sales Communications Consultant Philip Massolin Committee Research Co-ordinator Stephanie LeBlanc Legal Research Officer Diana Staley Research Officer Rachel Stein Research Officer Liz Sim Managing Editor of Alberta Hansard Transcript produced by Alberta Hansard September 28, 2010 Heritage Savings Trust Fund HS-105 9:01 a.m. Tuesday, September 28, 2010 Mr. Groeneveld: I can do that. Title: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 HS [Ms Tarchuk in the chair] The Chair: George. Any objections? All those in favour? That motion is carried. The Chair: Well, good morning, everyone, and welcome. I’d like You should also have a copy of the minutes of June 17. I wonder to call this meeting to order. My name is Janis Tarchuk, MLA for if someone can move that we adopt those as circulated. Dave. Any Banff-Cochrane and chair of this committee. I also would like to objections? All in favour? That motion is carried. welcome Bridget as a new member, I understand. The quarterly update was distributed to all members on August 25. The Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund Act indicates that one of Ms Pastoor: Just a substitute. the functions of this committee is to receive and review quarterly reports on the operation and the results of the operation of the The Chair: Oh, a substitute. heritage fund. We’re pleased to have Rod Matheson with us here I understand we’ve got Heather and Alana on the phone. today. I wonder if, Rod, you could just start out by giving us a little bit of an overview. Mrs. Forsyth: Yes. Mr. Matheson: I would be very pleased to do that, Madam Chair. The Chair: Perfect. Okay. Thank you. Good morning to the members of the committee. I’m pleased to I wonder if we could go around the table and for the record provide you with a brief review of the first-quarter update for the introduce ourselves. Maybe let’s start with Alana and Heather, and heritage fund, which was released on August 25. Unfortunately, the then we’ll go over to Bridget. slowing pace of global economic recovery and the resulting decline in world equity markets led to a $282 million drop in the fair value Mrs. Forsyth: Hi. Good morning. It’s Heather Forsyth. I’m the of the heritage fund during the quarter. At June 30, 2010, the fund’s MLA for Calgary-Fish Creek. Thank you, Chair. fair value was $14.1 billion dollars, declining from $14.4 billion dollars at March 31, 2010. This $282 million drop in value included Ms DeLong: Good morning. It’s Alana DeLong, Calgary-Bow. a net loss of $164 million in the first quarter plus a $118 million decline in unrealized portfolio gains. Unrealized gains represent the Ms Pastoor: Good morning, Madam Chair. Bridget Pastoor, MLA, Lethbridge-East, substituting for Laurie Blakeman. profit that would be made if the assets involved were sold at current prices. Mr. MacDonald: Good morning, everyone. Hugh MacDonald, Overall, on a fair value basis the fund’s investments lost 2.1 per Edmonton-Gold Bar. cent in the quarter. That outperformed the market-based benchmark for the fund, which would have had a loss of 2.6 per cent. Losses Mr. Ireland: Brad Ireland, Auditor General’s office. were in the fund’s equity portfolio, with foreign equities posting a loss of 8.8 per cent and Canadian equities losing 4.8 per cent in the Mr. Saher: Good morning. Merwan Saher, Auditor General. quarter. Both of these losses were better than the benchmark losses of 8.9 per cent and 5.5 per cent respectively. Losses in the fund’s Mr. Stratton: Good morning. Doug Stratton, Alberta Investment equity portfolio were partially offset by gains in every other asset Management Corporation. class in the fund. Real estate, for example, posted a gain of 5.7 per cent this quarter, better than the benchmark of 3.5 per cent. Mr. Gibson: I’m Brian Gibson. I’m senior vice-president of The heritage fund is now expected to earn investment income equities for AIMCo. before expenses of $684 million for the fiscal year 2010-11. That will conclude my brief remarks to the committee, Madam Mr. Matheson: Good morning. Rod Matheson. I’m an assistant Chair. We’d be pleased to answer any questions that the committee deputy minister with the Finance and Enterprise department. members have. Mr. Brown: Good morning. Aaron Brown, Alberta Finance and The Chair: Questions? Alana or Heather? Enterprise. Mrs. Forsyth: I have a question, Madam Chair, if you could put me Ms Sales: Tracey Sales, communication services with the Legislative on the list. Assembly Office. The Chair: Go ahead, Heather. Mr. Pappas: Dave Pappas, Alberta Finance and Enterprise. Mrs. Forsyth: Oh, thanks. Thanks for the brief presentation. You Ms Hay: Sandie Hay, Alberta Finance and Enterprise. mentioned about the real estate gain. I think you said 5.5 per cent over this quarter. Now we’re hearing and reading in regard to real Mr. Kaczmarek: Nick Kaczmarek, Alberta Finance and Enterprise. estate dropping dramatically. I just read an article about Calgary. What are you doing about that? Mr. Quest: Dave Quest, MLA, Strathcona. Mr. Matheson: I think I’d direct that question to my colleagues Mr. Groeneveld: George Groeneveld, Highwood. from AIMCo, if they have any insights on that. The Chair: Okay. Thank you. You should all have a copy of the Mr. Gibson: Okay. Thank you, Rod. Good morning. The real agenda in front of you. I wonder if someone can move that the estate assets are long-term assets. We value them every year. The agenda for September 28 for this committee be adopted as circulated. benchmark does move up and down over time. What happened last HS-106 Heritage Savings Trust Fund September 28, 2010 year, for example, when you saw a negative result, was that the how the assets are allocated versus the specific performance of, you portfolio was fairly stable and the cash flows were pretty healthy, but know, which stocks were picked or which bonds were picked. the benchmark was up. This year we’ve had that reversal so far, The results for this quarter for the heritage fund would be different where our portfolios carried on as generating good, strong cash flows than the results for, say, one of the large public-sector pension plans from rentals: the income is up, and the benchmark lagged. I won’t or some of the other endowments. We do look at the performance go into the details, but there is always a lag between the portfolio of the heritage fund relative to some of the funds that you mentioned and the benchmark because of the way the benchmark is constructed. although we tend to not do that on a quarter-by-quarter basis. Your question is about Calgary specifically. When we look at our Quarters are pretty short periods of time to try to compare investment portfolio, we are more concerned with generating good, long-term performance like that. cash flows. We haven’t seen in our portfolio any need for any writedowns or negative adjustments since year-end. So for the The Chair: I should mention for the record that Art Johnston, MLA specific buildings we have it has not really been an issue. Having for Calgary-Hays, and Doug Elniski, deputy chair and MLA for said that, where there are weak markets, it does create opportunities Edmonton-Calder, have joined the meeting. to buy good, quality real estate at a cheaper price, and our people are Are there other questions? looking at those sorts of things. Ms DeLong: Yes. Mrs. Forsyth: Thank you, Madam Chair. The Chair: Go ahead, Alana. The Chair: Hugh. Ms DeLong: I’ve got a question specifically for AIMCo. In our Mr. MacDonald: Yes. Thank you. My question at this time would changing financial situation in the world, in terms of our overall be around the fund’s investment loss of 2.1 per cent in this quarter. goals with the heritage savings trust fund, have we given you enough When you compare AIMCo’s strategy with others – we could pick, flexibility in terms of changing the asset mix? for instance, Ontario teachers’; we could pick British Columbia; we could pick the CPP investment pool; we could look at private-sector Mr.