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Dáil Éireann DÁIL ÉIREANN AN COMHCHOISTE UM THALMHAÍOCHT AGUS MUIR JOINT COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND THE MARINE Dé Máirt, 11 Bealtaine 2021 Tuesday, 11 May 2021 Tháinig an Comhchoiste le chéile ag 3.30 p.m. The Joint Committee met at 3.30 p.m. Comhaltaí a bhí i láthair / Members present: Teachtaí Dála / Deputies Seanadóirí / Senators Martin Browne, Victor Boyhan, Michael Collins, Lynn Boylan, Brian Leddin, Tim Lombard. Pádraig Mac Lochlainn,* Christopher O’Sullivan,* Thomas Pringle.* * In éagmais / In the absence of Deputies Matt Carthy and Michael Fitzmaurice and Senator Paul Daly. Teachta / Deputy Jackie Cahill sa Chathaoir / in the Chair. 1 JAM Business of Joint Committee Chairman: Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn is substituting for Deputy Matt Carthy, Deputy Christopher O’Sullivan is substituting for Senator Paul Daly and Deputy Thomas Pringle is substituting for Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice. No apologies have been received. Before we begin, I remind members that in the context of the current Covid-19 restrictions, only the Chair- man and staff are present in the committee room and all members must join remotely from elsewhere in the parliamentary precincts. The secretariat issues invitations to join the meeting on MS Teams and members may not participate from outside the parliamentary precincts. I ask members to mute their microphones when they are not making a contribution and to use the raise hand function to indicate. Members should note that messages sent in the meeting chat are visible to all participants. Speaking slots will be prioritised for members of the committee. Today’s meeting is in two sessions. The first session, from 3.30 p.m. to 4.30 p.m., will be an engagement with representatives of the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority, SFPA, while the second, from 4.30 p.m. to 5.30 p.m., will be an engagement with representatives of the Killybegs Fishermen’s Organisation, the Irish Fish Producers Association, the Fish Processors and Exporters Association, the Irish South and West Fish Producers Organisation and the Irish South and East Fish Producers Organisation. Fishing Industry: Discussion Chairman: For the first session on the pre-legislative scrutiny of the sea-fisheries (amend- ment) Bill 2020, the 2020 PwC review of organisational capability of the SFPA and the Euro- pean Commission’s decision to revoke the Irish control plan for weighing of fishery products after transport, I welcome the following representatives of the Sea-Fisheries Protection Author- ity, SFPA: Dr. Susan Steele, chairperson, Ms Olive Loughnane, director of transformation, and Mr. Andrew Kinneen, authority member. They are all joining remotely and are very welcome. We have received their opening statement and briefing material, which have already been cir- culated to members. As we are limited in our time due to Covid-19 safety restrictions, the com- mittee has agreed the opening statements will be taken as read so we can use the full session for questions and answers. All opening statements are published on the Oireachtas website and are publicly available. Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particu- lar matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject mat- ter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Participants who are in locations outside the parliamentary precincts are asked to note that the constitutional protections afforded to those participating from within the parliamentary precincts do not ex- tend to them. No clear guidance can be given on whether or the extent to which participation is 2 11 MAY 2021 covered by the absolute privilege of a statutory nature. I invite questions from members. Deputy Michael Collins: I welcome our witnesses. I have a good number of questions and I hope I can get answers to all or most of them. If not, I might get the replies in writing afterwards. In particular, the weighing crisis is a massive issue. I presume every coastal Deputy is inundated with calls from concerned fishermen. Many of them are very close to the brink and are seriously worried about their future. I have been asked to issue a request through the Oireachtas committee, although it might be difficult in this pandemic time, for us to be able to visit processing plants with representatives of the EU, the SFPA, the Department and so on to let everyone have their say. The exact same thing is suggested for whitefish, shellfish, lobster, shrimp and crab and it would be good for them to visit co-ops in west Cork at Baltimore, Union Hall, Schull, Turk Head and Colla Pier. I have the following questions and the witnesses might be able to take them down and an- swer as many as they can. Does the SFPA accept that the mismanagement of this entire debacle is adding to anti-European sentiment in our country? At face value, it was an act of madness to throw the fisheries industry into turmoil within one hour. On 16 April, at 4 p.m., everything was normal, but at 5 p.m., nothing was normal and a new regime was in place. Do the witnesses think this is acceptable behaviour from a regulatory body? Has the SFPA seriously looked at how this new regime of weighing on piers is going to impact on our two main ports, Killybegs and Castletownbere, as well as the small ports in west Cork, especially for landings during the pelagic season, when a daily landing of 5,000 to 6,000 tonnes of fish is common? It takes nu- merous factories weighing on their own plant or in-factory devices eight to nine hours a day to clear those fish. How is the SFPA going to manage putting all landings to all plants through pier weighing when no facilities exist for that scale of throughput? Do the witnesses accept this could lead to a serious amount of landings going elsewhere, for example, to Norway, the Shetlands or elsewhere in Scotland? I am not just talking about Irish vessels but other EU vessels refusing to come to our ports due to the present uncertainty. This will result in serious loss to the Irish economy. Do the witnesses think this is acceptable? Is the SFPA committed to restoring in- factory weighing? Will the witnesses assure us today it is a real possibility, that it is part of the programme for Government and the Government is committed to it? Is weighing a policy matter or solely an operational matter at this juncture? Control and quality monitoring must be separated from the SFPA. The events since 16 April have proven the SFPA cannot do both with fairness, as quality is secondary to control in the eyes of the SFPA. That is despite articles stating both must be done with equal priority. It is crazy what the officers are asking fishers to do at the pier, and this will get worse after 1 June unless somebody calls this out. What information did the SFPA give to the EU about the system? Why did it accept EU audit findings? To whom did the SFPA speak prior to responding to the audit report? Did it include fishermen, port officers or SFPA protection officers on the ground? What measures have been put in place to limit the damage and alleviate the hardship arising from draconian measures and the withdrawal of weighing in factories on the fishing industry? 3 JAM Is it true that for years prior to this happening, the fishing industry has been imploring both the SFPA and the Department to implement a code of practice governing how SFPA fisheries protection officers should interact with the industry and discharge statutory responsibilities not just in the area of enforcement but, just as significantly, in the area of certification of Irish fisher- ies produce in the context of health and hygiene and the provisions of safe and healthy fisheries product that is fit for human consumption. Chairman: That is a comprehensive set of questions for the witnesses. Dr. Susan Steele: I thank the Deputy. As a fellow west Cork person, it is good to speak to him. On the invitation to visit processing plants with Members of the Oireachtas or others, we have always taken meetings with the industry or Members. I thank the Deputy for extending that offer. The Deputy asked a significant number of questions, so if it is okay I will go back into what has happened with the revocation of the control plan. I am aware some Deputies are very well versed on what has happened but for others there may be a large number of questions. We can talk about the weighing of fish, which is a very important part of the fisheries management system. Under EU law, the accuracy of the weighing of catches landed is the responsibility of the operator. The law states that all wild-caught fisheries products must be weighed at landing before transport, and there are a number of potential derogations. In 2012, the SFPA submitted and obtained Commission approval for derogations and there were five separate plans that we submitted at that point. These were a control plan, two sampling plans and common control programmes with Belgium and France.
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