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TRI.Win.00.44-50.Goenka 3 SUPERSCIENCE An interview with S. N. GOENKA on the techniques of Buddhist Practice S. N. GOENKA HAS BEEN TEACHING VIPASSANA MEDITATION for thirty-one years and is most widely known, perhaps, for his famous introductory ten-day intensive courses, which are held free of charge in centers all around the world, supported by student donations. Born in Mandalay, Burma in 1924, he was trained by the samadhi and prajna—and nothing else, renowned Vipassana teacher Sayagyi U Ba Khin (1899- I was affected. I said, let me try. 1971). After fourteen years of training, he retired from his life as a successful businessman to devote himself to teach- How is sila generated by watching the ing meditation. Today he oversees an organization of more mind? than eighty meditation centers worldwide and has had When I began to learn Vipassana med- remarkable success in bringing meditation into prisons, itation, I became convinced that first in India, and then in numerous other countries. The Buddha was a not a founder of reli- organization estimates that as many as 10,000 prisoners, as gion, he was a super-scientist. A spiri - well as many members of the police and military, have tual super-scientist. When he teaches attended the ten-day courses. morality, the point is, of course, there S. N. Goenka came to New York this fall for the that we are human beings, living in Millennium World Peace Summit at the United Nations. human society, and we should not do He was interviewed there by HELEN TWORKOV. anything which would harm the soci- ety. It’s quite true. But then—and it’s as a scientist he’s talking here—he According to some people, Vipassana to practice sila with controlled mind. says that when you harm anybody, is a particular I will teach you samadhi, concentra- when you perform any unwholesome meditation practice of the Theravada tion. Any objection? What can be action, you are the first victim. You School; for others, objected to in samadhi? Then he said, first harm yourself and then you harm it is a lineage of its own. that alone will not help—that will puri - others. As soon as a defilement arises How do you use the term? fy your mind at the surface level. Deep in the mind, your nature is such that This is a lineage, but it is a lineage inside there are complexes, there are you feel miserable. That is what that has nothing to do with any sect. habit patterns, which are not broken Vipassana teaches me. To me, Buddha never established a by samadhi. I will teach you prajna, sect. When I met my teacher, Sayagyi wisdom, insight, which will take you to So if you can see that mental U Ba Khin, he simply asked me a few the depth of the mind. I will teach you defilement is causing anxiety and pain questions. He asked me if, as a Hindu to go to the depth of the mind, the for yourself, that leader, I had any objection towards source where the impurities start and is the beginning of sila and of com- sila, that is, morality. How can there they get multiplied and they get passion? be any objection? But how can you stored so that you can clear them out. If you can change that to compassion, practice sila unless you have control So when my teacher told me: I will then another reality becomes so clear. of the mind? He said, I will teach you teach you only these three—sila, If instead of generating anger or hatred © CHRIS DINERMAN 44 W INTER 2000 TRICYCLE: T HE BUDDHIST REVIEW 45 or passion or fear or ego, I generate I find someone abusing me, because you are observing the truth. love, compassion, goodwill, then nature I get angry. You are reacting to the It’s not imagination. Not philosophy or starts rewarding me. words at the apparent level, yes, true. thinking. Truth, breath, truth as I feel so peaceful, so much harmony You are reacting. But Buddha says you breath, deep or shallow. The mind within me. It is such that when I defile are actually reacting to the sensations, becomes so sharp that in the area my mind I get punishment then and body sensations. That when you feel around the nostrils, you start feeling there, and when I purify my mind I get body sensation and you are ignorant, some biochemical reaction that means a reward then and there. then you keep on defiling your mind by some physical sensation. This is always craving or by aversion, by greed or by there throughout the body, but the What happens during a ten-day hatred or anger. Because you don’t mind was so gross it was feeling only Vipassana course? know what’s happening. very gross sensations like pain or such. The whole process is one of total real- But otherwise there are so many sen- ization, the process of self-realization, When you hear praise or abuse, is the sations which the mind is not capable truth pertaining to oneself, by oneself, response filtered to feel. within oneself. It is not an intellectual through the psychological game. It is not an emotional or devo- mind to the bodily sensations, or is it Can you say something about the Top: S.N. Goenka offers meditation instruction tional game: “Oh, Buddha said such simultaneous? generation of wisdom? during a retreat at the Burmese Monastery in Bodh Gaya, India, 1971. Right: S. N. Goenka and such . so wonderful . I must It is one after the other, but so quick Is insight the same as wisdom? pays his respects to his teacher, Sayagyi U Ba accept.” It is pure science. I must that you can’t separate them. So Same same same! Insight is not trying Khin, at the International Meditation Centre in Yangon, Burma, circa 1968. understand what’s happening within quick! At some point automatically to understand the reality within myself me, what’s the truth within me. We you can start realizing, “Look what’s merely at the intellectual level, but I start with breath. It looks like a physi - happening! I have generated anger.” understand it now at the experiential cal concept, the breath moving in and And the Vipassana meditator will level. For anybody who admires moving out. It is true. But on the immediately say, “Oh, a lot of hate! Buddha’s teaching—that everything is deeper level the breath is strongly There is a lot of hate in the body, pal - impermanent, changing—this is at the connected to mind, to mental impuri- pitation is increased…Oh, miserable. I intellectual level. Yes, everything’s awareness means you are not reacting ties. While we’re meditating, and we’re feel miserable.” changing. Nothing is permanent. Quite Does the object of awareness ever dis- to it. Say the object, the sensation, is Is it possible to transcend awareness observing the breath, the mind starts If you are not working with the body true. But that doesn’t help. When I appear so that there’s only awareness very pleasant. The old habit pattern itself? wandering—some memory of the past, sensations, then you are working only practice Vipassana, I start with sensa- of awareness itself? was that when we feel this sensation Certainly. But that takes time. If you some thoughts of the future—immedi- at the intellectual level. You might say, tion: Look, sensation arises, seems to Exactly. But when I say I am aware of we react with, “Ah, Wonderful! I must keep on thinking about this, it will be ately what we notice is that the “Anger is not good,” or “Lust is not stay for some time but passes, is not this object, and “I” is there, “I” am continue—this must be retained.” Then imagination. No imagination is allowed breath has lost its normality: it might good,” or “Fear is not—.” All of this is eternal. aware of this. This is a duality. Slowly this is not bare awareness. But if you in the whole technique. Be with the be slightly hard, slightly fast. And as intellectual, moral teachings heard in And after four, five, six days, the as you proceed, “I” goes away. Things keep on, just awareness, let me see present moment as it is. Otherwise soon as that impurity is gone away it childhood. Wonderful. They help. But sensations get dissolved. There is no are just happening, and the knowing what happens, it changes. You are just you will be thinking: Nirvana, nirvana is is normal again. That means the breath when you practice, you understand more solidity in the entire body. Mere part knows. That’s all. observing the changing nature of the like this, I must—You haven’t experi- is strongly connected to the mind, and why they’re not good. Not only do I vibration, very subtle vibration. So this sensations. This sensation or that sen- enced not only mind but mental impurities. harm others by generating these impermanence is now experience. What Is that the same as what some sation, makes no difference. nirvana. You’ve heard about nirvana, So we are here to experiment, to defilements of anger or passion or fear is the purpose of reacting to something teachers call “bare attention”? you’ve intellectualized about nirvana, explore what is happening within us. or evil, I harm myself also, simultane - when it is changing so quickly? What is Yes, this is bare attention. Do you move to a place where there’s you’ve emotionalized about nirvana.
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