This is an interview with Michael Kostelnik for In the Age of Steel: Oral Histories from Bethlehem Pennsylvania. The interview was conducted by Kathy (Kane) Schlegel on March 13, 1975 in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.
th 00:00:00 Kane: The following is an interviewer with Michael Kostelnik at his home, 726 Hillside Avenue, Bethlehem, on March 13 , 1975. The interview is being conducted by Kathy Kane. Okay, let’s start with when you started working at Bethlehem Steel.
Kostelnik: 1915.
Kane: 1915. And what did you do at that time? 00:00:59
Kostelnik: Well (inaudible) that slip there on the table, I was paid six cents an hour.
Kane: Six cents an hour. And what did tape boy do?
Kostelnik: Well, my brother was a foreman and he had steel tape in his hand and we had to measure all the steel coming out. From 18 foot to about 100 foot. That’s the size of the beams, or angles or channels. That’s what they used to— I mean, like a straightener1, he would send them out and that was about 40, 50, 60 bars an hour, angle beam2 and everything else. And then they were all lengths and we had to measure them off. And then where one goes, one customer and some of the other customers, them bars was scrap or anything else, that (inaudible).
Kane: I see. And how long were you a tape boy?
Kostelnik: Not too long. Just about a year, I guess.
Kane: And then what did you do?
Kostelnik: Then I was on the rake off3, it was job on the levers.4 Ten cents an hour, I got a raise at that time.
1 A straightener used a machine to straighten out hot bars when they come out of the rolls. 2 An L-shaped beam. 3 Project staff were unable to identify this term. 4 Project staff were unable to identify this term. Kane: What did you do with the levers? Was there lifting being done?
Kostelnik: Well, the scrapers5 send them out and we had to rake them off. (inaudible) And the straighteners6 would start the bar right here and then we’d either take it off or wait to get the next bar through.
Kane: And how long did you do that?
Kostelnik: (inaudible) I’m not available in 1917. That was about a year, too.
Kane: Then where did you go? Then what did you do after that?
Kostelnik: Then I was a—it’s called a marker.
Kane: A marker?
Kostelnik: Yeah, we had to—after the bars were measured, we had, we had paint (inaudible). We had to paint them and I mean in the can, and we had a brush and everything and we had to mark it on them. Like it was 8-inch channels7, a 7-inch channel, a 9-inch channel or a IA beam.8 The weight per foot and then how long the bar is. So that was our job.
Kane: I see. And then they would know where that was supposed to go after that?
Kostelnik: Well no, I mean, it was (inaudible). Like for one customer here and one there and a bar with a scrap or stock, that was extra also.
Kane: Oh, I see. And how long did you do this?
Kostelnik: Well, that’s what I’m trying to figure out because in 1917 in the First World War, we had what you call down there was the rail mill. They used to make rails. But then they cut that there mill out, and they started with construction steel, what we had over at the other mill. So I was sitting over there in 1917 and I was only 16 years old as a leader. 1917.
5 Project staff were unable to identify this term. 6 Project staff were unable to identify this term. 7 A beam shaped like a bracket ( [ ). 8 Possibly referring to an I-beam, shaped like an I.
Kane: As a kind of a foreman?
Kostelnik: Yeah. Like my brother had at the other place.
Kane: And you were only 16 years old at that time?
Kostelnik: 1917. I was born in 1901. Of course I started working when I was only 14.
Kane: So is that the job that you kept all the way through?
Kostelnik: No, no, I got the job at— That was the only thing I could do in the war. 1917, 1918, and 1919 I came back at the other place because they shut that place down then.
00:03:53 Kane: Oh, I see. And what did you do after the war?
9 Kostelnik: Well, I got a job, I was slip making (inaudible).
Kane: You were a slip maker?
Kostelnik: No, (inaudible). (shuffling papers) Actually here’s, where’s it at? Unit leader, see? 00:00:59
Kane: (reading) A unit leader in the plant’s former rail mill.
Kostelnik: That’s right, I was just telling you that.
Kane: (reading) A crane operator in the Saucon Yards10 in 1919 and served in that capacity until 1921 when he was named a straightener. He had served as straightener in the Saucon Yards since that time. What does a straightener do?
Kostelnik: When steel is rolled, it’s rather hot, so it comes out in all kind of shapes.
9 Project staff were unable to identify this term. 10 A group of buildings in the main Bethlehem Steel location located in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. This location was often referred to as Lehigh/Saucon. It was a part of the Bethlehem plant containing rolling mills and associated facilities for producing from ingots a wide range of structural steel sections. And then we had what you call an auto rotary.11
Kane: The rotary?
Kostelnik: R-O-T-A-R-Y. It’s a machine that puts pressure on the steel and (inaudible) bend out. You understand what I mean?
Kane: Mm-hm. Yeah.
Kostelnik: A roll like this here. So what they couldn’t take out, we had to take out down below.
Kane: And you used machinery to do that.
Kostelnik: You got a machine there going back and forth.
Kane: And that’s what you did from 1921 on?
00:05:18 Kostelnik: Yeah, till I quit. About 1921 to 1951. About 45 years, I guess. Like when they made that Golden Gate Bridge12 in California. You heard about that.
Kane: Yeah.
00:00:59 13 Kostelnik: Well we rolled all that steel that are (inaudible). I straightened all that steel. And the Verrazano [-Narrows] Bridge down in New York. We that complete ordered it.
Kane: So then you can look at those things and say that you had a part in that.
Kostelnik: Yeah, yeah. I had a big hand in the Golden Gate Bridge.
11 Project staff were unable to identify this term. 12 Completed in 1937, the Golden Gate Bridge connects the city of San Francisco and Marin County, California. The bridge was fabricated from steel produced by Bethlehem Steel. 13 Completed in 1964, the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge connects the boroughs of Staten Island and Brooklyn, New York. The bridge was fabricated from steel produced by Bethlehem Steel. Kane: Right, right. That would give you some satisfaction then in being able to see what you have done.
00:05:53 Kostelnik: Oh yeah, yeah. That’s a few years ago. Yeah, we used to average when, at that time we used to work 12 hours, 6 to 6. At that time we used to average about, I’m not quite sure now whether I’ll be right or not, but it’s around that. Three hundred actual ton of steel every turn.
Kane: Every turn meaning?
00:00:59 Kostelnik: Twelve hours. Every 12 hours. That was considered high, very good. Now when I quit in 1966-67, after 8 hours we had to put out four or five hundred ton.
Kane: Why the difference?
Kostelnik: Everything was speeded up.
Kane: Because of automation?
Kostelnik: Yeah, that’s right. Everything was speeded up. Like it was nothing for us to, like a small channel, 8-inch channel— Now do you know what a channel is?
Kane: No.
Kostelnik: It’s structural steel, it has one flat top, the top is flat, and there are small flanges on the side, it’s 8 inches wide. It used on all the bridges and all over. Got some down in the cellar, I guess, as a matter of fact. We put out 900 pieces in 8 hours, 40, 50 foot long. That’s about an average of 100, 110, 120 every hour. You’ve got to be active in that kind of work.
Kane: Did you notice a change, did they need less men when automation came in?
Kostelnik: No, we had more men, we had more men before, but the work was the same. The work was the same. I mean, only we would, we had more (inaudible) afterward Now in time they had no more tape boy as I started with and we had these inspectors, they’d inspect the steel. They held that tape toward the end and they got rid of the tape boy, and they got rid of the boy on the lever too. (inaudible)
Kane: What about the marker? Did they still have the marker?
Kostelnik: No, the marker had to be on there. The marker was still on there but nobody else. That’s about all we lost, I guess. Two or three men. But the work was the same way always. It was all speed, that’s all it was. That was the biggest thing.
00:08:38 Kane: When did the 12 hour switch to 10 hours to 8 hour days, do you remember?
Kostelnik: I can’t place that. I know our union came in town in 1936 or 1937. I joined in 1939. I recall that good. (inaudible) from 10, I mean for 12, down to 10, I mean 7 to 5:30. And then later we went on 8, 8 hours. But like up (inaudible). You know where that is?
00:00:59 Kane: Uh-huh, yes.
Kostelnik: That’s at the Heights.14 Every second Sunday they used to work 24 hours.
Kane: Did you know why that was? Why did a man have to work 24 hours?
Kostelnik: Every second Sunday they, the same men started in the morning at 6 and they worked until the following morning to 6.
Kane: I’ve heard that and I just can’t figure out why—
Kostelnik: That was the truth.
Kane: Yeah, I know.
Kostelnik: The second Sunday. Now these young folks when they work 8 hours, my God, they think they’re doing a lot of work.
Kane: Yeah.
Kostelnik: Do you understand what I mean?
Kane: Yeah.
14 Possibly Northampton Heights, the location of the main Bethlehem Steel plant in Bethlehem.
Kostelnik: Let’s see, my wife here, she’s was first married to my brother, and that’s why I have these. And when my brother went to Shamokin [Pennsylvania], that’s her hometown, in December, I don’t know what that year that was, but I recall that time we was paid only twice a month, on the 15th and the end of the month. I believe in those two weeks that he was gone, well it was 15 days, I think we put in something like 208 hours. We used to go out the night shift from 6 to 2 was always work, but we used to go in the afternoon already at 3 o’clock and work till 9 the following morning all week really, all the way through. I called that good because I’d experience as a leader at that time. I shouldn’t say this but our boss called in the day before New Years and he told me to have all the men assembled there and tell them anybody does not come out, make up his mind he’s to stay home. So I assembled these men, I got about 12 to 15. I told him, I said, `Our boss is here, now, standing right aside of me.’ And I said, `Now anybody that doesn’t come out tomorrow morning, you can make up your mind that don’t come back out anymore.’ And here it came I was the one that didn’t show up.
Kane: Did you become ill or something? Or you just didn’t make it?
Kostelnik: (inaudible) not here and then they all coaxed me to go down to the Mummer’s Parade.15 I got out of it.
Kane: Did you lose your job?
Kostelnik: No. (inaudible) the next day with a white shirt and everything else. I was sent home for a week, my punishment. But then the boss (inaudible) all by himself, too. Well, when you’re young, you’re young.
00:11:57 Kane: Do you remember when the union came in?
Kostelnik: Between 1936-37 [1937].
Kane: And why did you wait until ’39 [1939] to join? Weren’t you sold on the union at first?
Kostelnik: No, they had a hard time to get guys at first to join. And especially us old-timers because at that time in 1939, I had from 00:00:59 ’15 [1915] to ’39 [1939] 24 years service (inaudible) and they didn’t care about the young lads joining, just starting.
Cause the foreman even called me over, he said, `I don’t mind if the other guys join, but it’d be nice if you guys joined.’ I said, `What are you gonna do? That’s what the men wanted, that’s what they’re gonna do.’
15 A tradition where laborers would don masks and march through the streets in celebratory fashion. Today the Mummer's parade in Philadelphia is an annual spectacle occurring every New Year's Day.
Kane: Why didn’t the older men join at first?
Kostelnik: Well they were satisfied the other way, too. You know what I mean. They never had any trouble. I believe that time was better than we have it now.
Kane: You think so?
Kostelnik: Well I mean, they didn’t bother us. There was no seniority rights or no, you know, now they’re stuck with that there you have to go to the union to get it straightened out. At that time you got straightened out yourself with the foreman. Tell the foreman, just tell them (inaudible). That was the end of it. But the boys have more rights now, I mean, they can get away with more now than us guys used to get away with.
Kane: Do you think that’s good or bad? Do you think it’s good or bad that they can get away with more?
Kostelnik: Well I don’t know if— I couldn’t answer yes or no, I guess. But if a guy did his work, he had nothing to worry about. But now it’s just the opposite now. These young fellows, they stole a lot and everything else, they say. Now if it’s true or not, I don’t know, because I’m not there already 9 years. But no, we never stole anything at our place, all the men we had. Which they enjoy that, I mean, working fast, continuous pace, continuous pace.
Kane: Did you like the benefits of the union, the wage benefits and everything?
Kostelnik: That time we had no benefits before.
Kane: But once the union came in, the wages went up and—
00:14:14 Kostelnik: Oh, that’s a very good thing about a union. Taking care of all the pensioners, that’s very good. And years back when my dad went out, he never got nothing.
Kane: He never was on pension or anything?
Kostelnik: He didn’t get nothing.
00:00:59
Kane: When did he retire?
Kostelnik: Oh, a long time ago. I mean, Pop was only about 52 years old.
Mrs.Kostelnik: Yeah, he was pretty young yet. And them days they didn’t have a (inaudible).
Kostelnik: Yeah, but he never had a steady job. A little part time here, and then when he got tired he wouldn’t go out and that was the end of it. But the way it is now, I mean, a lot of these old-timers who were out for a long time, they aren’t getting much pension. We’re all right in our class. I believe in unions. I mean unions are a hundred percent. But these young fellows are taking advantage of the unions. (inaudible)
Kane: Can you see any solution to that?
Kostelnik: (inaudible) I wouldn’t know.
Kane: Did you ever hold a position in the union? Did you ever have an office in the union? Were you ever an officer of any sort?
Kostelnik: You mean me?
Kane: Mm-hm.
Kostelnik: No. I was always a member in good standing.
Kane: But you never held an office.
Kostelnik: I was there this morning; they had a meeting over there this morning. That’s when you called me up, I had something to do that day. On the 13th I knew I had something but I didn’t know just what it was. So that was at 10 a.m. this morning.
Kane: And what was that meeting for?
Kostelnik: Oh yeah, a representative from assembling, he’s Max Rader16, he was over there and I talked to him about our benefits, you know, and (inaudible) engineers and all that.
Kane: Does it look like your pension will be raised at all or were they just telling you what you do get now?
Kostelnik: We were talking more about Harrisburg [Pennsylvania]. The laws for the senior citizens, you know, get better laws. Like for a home, I mean, the pensioners, how they claim about 90 percent are homeowners, they’re trying to get a break in their taxes to hold it stationary until that (inaudible) dies and then they can be assessed again. But have the assessment as it is now, not to raise it every year. That’s all that was about.
Kane: So you were a leader, a foreman.
Kostelnik: It’s called a unit leader.
Kane: Unit leader.
00:17:17 Kostelnik: We had about what I told you, 10, 12 men there in the gang. My brother, still rest in peace, he had a job for well, till he died, that part. And then he’s the guy that got me down there. But that’s one thing, I don’t believe in these young fellows want to work at my age.
Kane: You don’t think that a man should work at your age? What did you just say?
00:00:59 Kostelnik: I don’t think it’s a good thing for boys 14 years old (inaudible). I don’t approve of that. And I was lazy. See I’m still like that a little bit. I was (inaudible) I never had a (inaudible). That time down by the railroad, I recall (inaudible). I was out sleigh riding and my mother come (inaudible) you had to go to work. Now all the kids my age, I was the only one had to go out there. At that time I had white sneakers to go to work and long stockings and a blouse, pants. I mean short pants up to here and a blouse, like a little kid.
Kane: And you went to work in that? That’s what you wore to work?
16 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. Kostelnik: Yes, I had to go to work that way. And we had to walk to work then. (inaudible) over there on the Heights, every day beating back and forth, back and forth. Now these kids go on a bus for three or four blocks.
Kane: Why did you have to go to work so young? Why did you start working at 14?
Kostelnik: Our family had to eat. That time there was no welfare or nothing. No welfare or nothing. The same with her. When her husband died, she had five children from four and a half to about 14 or 15. She was welfare for a while and then when they found out that she had a home and everything else, they come up, she either had to give the deed of the house or they’d cut her welfare off. Her welfare was cut off. (inaudible) after that. She had to go to work in the morning and had the kids over at school first and then go to work.
00:19:41 Kane: Did you work down in Bethlehem also?
17 18 Mrs.Kostelnik: No. I worked in a silk mill. I went to Laris. I worked under Rudolph , what was his name, Rudolph.
Kostelnik: That’s his last name.
Mrs.Kostelnik: So he knew my husband and he said, `I’ll give you a break.’ He says, `You come in.’ He said, `It’s hard times now, 00:00:59 they don’t hired anybody, but since you’re a widow and I knew your husband so I’ll hire you.’ So I worked under
him and his mother took care of my children because they were small. And oh, was I tired. And that was the shift I had from 10 at night till— No, from 2 o’clock till 10 at night. And we used to come home in bunch, in crowds, you know, the women. Them were the days I’ll never forget.
Kane: So you didn’t get to see your children too much.
Mrs.Kostelnik: No, they were in bed already when I came home. But I had to get up early in the morning to cook a big pot of something, you know, so they’d have something to eat, and had them ready for school. And then they had to walk to school to Liberty High School19 when they got a little bit older.
17 Established in 1921, the R.K. Laris Silk Mill was located at the northeast corner of Broad and New Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. The mill specialized in silk for women’s hosiery. 18 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 19 A public high school located on Linden Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Kostelnik: Yeah.
Kane: Quite a hike.
Mrs.Kostelnik: Oh yeah. There was no money for that. And today, they have it so good. Those buses take them right over to the school.
Kane: Did your children have to go to work, the older ones?
Mrs.Kostelnik: Well they had part-time jobs. The one was sent out to— Where was this where he was working? Eddie. He was about 16 and I sent him out to— He was working and I was getting paid from that. What was that? The Boy’s Club.20 He belonged to the Boy’s Club. I mean, two boys of mine, they used to play different places for the Boy’s Club, you know, and they were getting paid. But then I was getting a little help from that. And that was the only place I was getting any help from.
Kane: And how long did this go on?
Mrs.Kostelnik: Oh, when they got to be about 17, well, then they got girlfriends, you know, and they— Then my older one, when he was 18, he got in the Steel.21 And of course, he started working in the Steel there. And he got into a machine shop22 from there, got married, and he’s got a good position today. The younger one, he’s out in Boston, he’s a music teacher. Of course, he was drafted, he was in the war.
Kostelnik: Oh, they’re all doing good now. I said doctor, lawyer, musicians, they’re doing (inaudible) now.
Mrs.Kostelnik: Somehow, you know, they got along. They were smart, they got scholarships. Yeah, that’s— I had no trouble.
00:15:18 Kostelnik: Oh yeah. I had two jobs before that. I used to work at the stocking factory, too.
Kane: Before you went down here, at age 14.
20 The Boys' Club was formed as a national organization in 1906 and is now known as the Boys & Girls Club of America. It was based on a system of informal guidance to attract boys into the Club, capture their interest, improve their behavior and increase their personal expectations and goals. 21 Bethlehem Steel. 00:00:59 22 A place where products and tools are made by machining metal.
Kostelnik: Down at the stocking factory23, I was (inaudible) before that. And then there’s a (inaudible) factory down here on Third Street burned down. I cleaned bricks then for a little while. Then I used to sell papers at 10 cents apiece down by the gate (inaudible).
00:23:14 Kane: Let’s see. Did you notice any change in job conditions when the union came in? Did the work, you know—
Kostelnik: Oh well they, the men had a better chance I mean to, not to get fired or anything else. They can’t fire a man now, they have to go through all the procedures, arbitration and everything else. That time they didn’t, that time the boss told you to go home and that was the end of it.
Kane: But, you know— 00:00:59
Kostelnik: But the union is good, I mean, (inaudible) if you don’t abuse it. But when it’s abused, it’s like anything else.
Kane: But friends of yours who had back-breaking jobs or whatever, did it get better when the union came in? Were they not so much slaves as they used to be or something?
Kostelnik: (inaudible) we worked. But we always worked the same way. But the union, (inaudible) union so we, we had to put out that work (inaudible) rolled. I used to work in the rolling mill and how many steel rolls we had to get out regardless of if you had a union or not. That steel has to come out or they had to stop rolling. That’s the only thing, but the work was the same to us. We started and when I started scraping in 1921 or 1919, it was the same thing I mean, until I quit. Same machinery, too. (inaudible)
00:24:40 Kane: Did you enjoy your job?
Kostelnik: As a matter of fact, I really liked the work, but I didn’t like the shifts.
Kane: No?
00:00:59 Kostelnik: Like Saturdays and Sundays and afternoon shift one week, then night shift the following week, and then day shift. And sometimes in the middle of the week we’d have to change go to the afternoon shift again. We never had what you call a
23 Perhaps Laris Silk Mill? suppertime or a dinnertime or—suppertime sometimes was breakfast and that’s what it was. And then I’d go home to work at half-past ten in the evening, half-past twelve in the evening, well it was then we ate dinner. And then about two o’clock I used to go to bed.
Kane: Did this put a strain on your family life at all?
Kostelnik: (inaudible) because it was always that way. You know, you might have a change for dinner but that’s how we were brought up.
00:25:37 Kane: Do you remember when vacations started?
Kostelnik: Yeah, because you see how much of a job I have because (inaudible) but oh, first vacation was 1937. I went to Detroit that time with one of my friends and I thought it was heaven. We’d never had a vacation before, 1915 to maybe 1937 is 00:00:59 about when they started.
Kane: Was that a one-week vacation?
Kostelnik: Yeah, a week.
Kane: And you said you went out to Detroit? What’d you do on your vacation?
Kostelnik: I went to Detroit that time with my friend for a visit.
Kane: Did you drive out?
Kostelnik: No, we went by train, we went by rail. That’s the first vacation we ever had. George Peters24 and I. Our wives stayed home that time. My kid brother was out in Detroit, see. Well things changed for the better only, well see I always say that all these young boys and everything else, no matter how hard they work, they never have any (inaudible) because it does no good. For their future, I mean it’s for their own benefit. Of course they don’t realize it now. They think that they’re getting trampled on, which they’re not. It’s going to do them good I mean during a pinch. Right now they talk about hard times, Depression and all that stuff. Well we went through, her and I went through this so many times, I mean, it’s only a joke to us.
24 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.
Kane: Right, right.
Kostelnik: The other time like in that strike, that 116 day strike that we had and I think we got a 15 cent raise in the whole 116 day strike and we never got any paper on anybody. I just stopped eating steak and all that stuff. Out in our garden we got onions, peppers and all that stuff we got out there and we always got along.
Kane: When was this strike that you’re talking about?
00:27:45 Kostelnik: The steel company strike.
Kane: When?
Kostelnik: I’m not quite sure what year it was. Was that ’59 [1959] or something like that? It was 116 day strike, I know that. And we wound up getting a 15 cent raise. That’s an hour, 15 cent an hour raise. And today when they’re asking for a raise, 00:00:59 my God, they’re asking for a two, three thousand dollar raise. And they can’t keep on going that way. I want to ask you a question. What’s tuition up here now? About $2,800?
Kane: I would say, maybe yeah.
Kostelnik: Well you should know, shouldn’t you?
Kane: Well my parents take care of all that so I don’t have to—
Kostelnik: Huh?
Kane: My parents pay that so I don’t know. I think it is about that though.
Kostelnik: I know mine, I mean when my older boy started, 1949, it was 625 a full year. No semesters or anything else. And when the second boy started in 1957, that time it was up to 1,100. He paid 1,100. I used to pay too, that’s what you’re saying (inaudible) And today it’s way up today.
Kane: And it’s still going up too.
00:28:54 Kostelnik: He had that scholarship to (inaudible). What do your parents do then?
Kane: What do you mean?
Kostelnik: I mean, are they working?
00:00:59 Kane: Well my father does. He’s the Attorney General for Pennsylvania.
Kostelnik: You have, what’s the name now. What’s the name now? You mentioned the name Kane?
Kane: Right.
Kostelnik: Well if he is now, that’s right.
Kane: Yeah, he’s the Attorney General now.
Kostelnik: He was just appointed.
Kane: Yeah, right, right. And he was a lawyer so, you know, he had a good income so that wasn’t any problem for us.
Kostelnik: Yeah, Kane was mentioned. He took the guy’s place from Philadelphia.
Kane: Ed Packel, Mr. Packel?25
Kostelnik: Yeah, yeah. A Jew boy.
00:29:34 Kane: Yeah, right, right. Let’s go back to the early years. Were you born in Bethlehem?
Kostelnik: Yes.
25 Israel Packel was the Attorney General of Pennsylvania preceding Robert P. Kane. 00:00:59
Kane: And in 1901?
Kostelnik: 1901.
Kane: Where were your parents from?
Kostelnik: Austria-Hungary, I guess.
Kane: From where?
Kostelnik: Austria-Hungary.
Kane: They came—they were immigrants?
Kostelnik: I think they moved here around 1890 or something like that.
Kane: And they came right here to Bethlehem?
Kostelnik: No, no. I guess Pop met my mother in Lebanon [Pennsylvania?], didn’t he?
Mrs.Kostelnik: Yeah.
Kostelnik: Up in Lebanon, that’s where they met. And then they came down here. My dad’s a charter member from our church down here, St. Cyril’s.26 Oh, my dad’s here a long—1891, I guess. He was only about 18 or 19 years of age when he come over here.
Mrs.Kostelnik: There weren’t too many home around here at that year. They were all just narrow paths to walk through. There weren’t many homes here, were there, when your mother and father were here?
Kostelnik: There was no housing.
26 Saints Cyril & Methodius Parish was founded in Bethlehem as the first Slovak Catholic Parish in the Lehigh Valley of Pennsylvania. It was located on the corner of Thomas and Buchanan Streets, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Several Catholic churches in Bethlehem, including Saints Cyril & Methodius, were consolidated in 2008 to form Incarnation of our Lord
Mrs.Kostelnik: They were calling this Indiantown27 or—
Kostelnik: Nanny Goat Hill.28
Kane: They called it what?
Kostelnik: Nanny Goat Hill. (Mrs. Kostelnik laughs) Cause the goats used to be up this way.
Mrs.Kostelnik: Oh, and look what it is today. Oh yeah (inaudible).
Kane: Were you born in Bethlehem also?
Mrs.Kostelnik: No. Coal region.29
Kostelnik: She’s a (inaudible).
Kane: Oh, right, right. And your parents are from (inaudible)?
Mrs.Kostelnik: No, my mother, she was born on a boat coming here, too, you know. My grandmother had her on a boat, so she said she’s half there and half here, so. They had a problem about that when they got into New York, you know. They didn’t know if she was to be a citizen, but they passed the papers and she was okay.
Kane: Where were they coming from?
Mrs.Kostelnik: From Poland. I’m Polish. He’s a Slovak, I’m Polish. Yeah.
00:31:32 Kane: Do you belong to any organizations like—
27 Project staff were unable to identify this location. 28 Nanny Goat Hill was a neighborhood in South Bethlehem. 29 00:00:59 A area of northeastern Pennsylvania noted for the country’s largest deposits of anthracite coal.
Kostelnik: Oh yeah. The tri-local union, 259930, I belong to that one. And I belong to Elijah Sacred Heart of Jesus31, that’s another lodge. And the Italian Democratic Club32 on Fourth Street. What else? I used to belong to more before.
Kane: The more?
Kostelnik: No, I belonged to more clubs before and getting older, I mean, these guys have dropped away.
Kane: Do you remember which clubs you belonged to before?
Kostelnik: Down at the Jefferson at the Heights33, I used to belong that, and also. I used to go up here once in a while to St. Michael’s34 up here. And Monocacy Field and Stream35, used to go up there. And I was good member of the (inaudible) Democratic Club. I haven’t been down there in quite a while, it’s nothing to worry about that part.
Mrs.Kostelnik: Now we’ve landed with the senior citizens. (laughs)
Kostelnik: Well is your dad taking up corporate law or criminal law?
Kane: He’s not corporate. Well, when he went to law school, he just took the general law. There wasn’t any, you know, difference.
00:32:48 Kostelnik: My son only all corporate. Okay. He started at first, I don’t know what (inaudible) but then he took 92 hours there altogether. So he (inaudible) tax division. That was his. Then from there he got a call from Hess Oil.36 He was with Hess Oil for about two or three years, I guess. Then he got another offer from Reynolds Aluminum.37 I mean, it’s Reynolds Metals out in Richmond, Virginia, so he was out there for a long time. And then Anaconda38 got ahold of him. Anaconda Copper, that’s who he’s with now. He’s been doing a lot of traveling. I could just show you one
00:00:59 30 United Steelworkers of America local union in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 31 Project staff were unable to identify this organization. 32 Project staff were unable to identify this organization. 33 Project staff were unable to identify this organization. 34 Project staff were unable to identify this organization. 35 Project staff were unable to identify this organization. 36 Hess Corporation, whose predecessor was founded as a heating oil distributor in the 1930's, is now an integrated oil company based in New York. 37 Reynolds Group Holdings, once the second-largest aluminum producer in the United States, was acquired by Alcoa in 2000. 38 Once the fourth largest company in the world, Anaconda Copper Mining Company was acquired by Atlantic Richfield Company in 1977. thing here. I have all this stuff here all the time, I mean. (shuffling through papers) You can just read this. (inaudible) For your study you can read that. Open it up.
Kane: Oh my God, he does travel.
Kostelnik: (inaudible)
Kane: Right. Geez. He’s busy. (chuckles)
Kostelnik: See 1973 where he was at. Or is that 19 days, 19.
Kane: What does that say?
Kostelnik: Iran.
Kane: Oh, I couldn’t read it, yeah.
Kostelnik: Tehran.
Kane: That’s great. Does he have a family?
Kostelnik: Five children.
Kane: I see. My interest in this whole thing is leisure, how people spent their leisure time and how leisure time was affected, you know, as you worked less hours and less days of the week. So—
Kostelnik: I never had any trouble with that.
Kane: You didn’t?
Kostelnik: Even the first day I was out of (inaudible) I was happy that I was out.
Kane: Yeah.
Kostelnik: See, like I told you before, I was never tired of the work, I was getting tired of the hours. Because that 11 to 7 shift, especially (inaudible) used to call me up, `Come on and get up,’ he says, `it’s five after ten.’ I said, `Again? Should I go down there again?’ That’s the only hard part there was. I mean, as far as the work was concerned, I always liked it, I always enjoyed the work. That’s how we were brought up and that’s— And it would pass the time away, I mean, had no trouble at all.
00:35:36 Kane: What did you do with your free time?
Kostelnik: (chuckling) That’s all we do now sometimes.
Mrs.Kostelnik: Took his walks. I did work around here. Around the house.
Kostelnik: All these paint rollers laying around last year, always painting. And we both belong to the senior citizens club on the 00:00:59 South Side.
Kane: Do they have activities?
Kostelnik: Yeah.
Mrs.Kostelnik: Oh yeah. Monday, Tuesdays, I’d spend days down there and we’d sew on a Monday, make my own clothes down there.
Kane: Good.
Mrs.Kostelnik: It’s so hard fitting in stores you know. I’m not built for the patterns in stores. And then crocheting, we crochet down there.
Kane: Good.
Kostelnik: I’ll show you all the things.
Kane: This is all the stuff that you can do. Oh my gosh. They keep you busy.
Mrs.Kostelnik: We’re on the board, the meeting board there, too, so once a month we have—
Kostelnik: We’re on the board of directors, you see.
Kane: Mm-hm. So you don’t have too much trouble finding something to do.
Mrs.Kostelnik: You could spend your day down there every day, but I don’t have time for it. When you have a big house, you just have to (inaudible) down there.
Kane: It’s just the two of you here.
Mrs.Kostelnik: Yeah.
Kane: It’s a big house for two people.
Mrs.Kostelnik: Yeah. But when they come home, oh boy. Thirty-two grandchildren we have on both sides, but they all don’t come home at one time.
Kostelnik: Thirty-one grandchildren and five great grandchildren.
Mrs.Kostelnik: Oh, who let you in? (talking to dog?)
Kane: Do you remember when you went from like 12 hours to 10 hours, if you had an increase in leisure time, did you have more family outings or something?
Kostelnik: Well no.
Kane: Or wasn’t there any difference?
Kostelnik: (inaudible) I was 17, I mean, I didn’t take notice that I was working less hours.
00:37:32 Kane: Do you remember when you bought your first car?
00:00:59
Kostelnik: 1926, that I remember good. I paid $1,205 for it.
Kane: You paid $1,200?
Kostelnik: It was a Dodge39 four cylinder, $1,205.50. I bought it down here on Third Street. I never thought about my buying a car. And I’d get off of the trolley car at Third and New Street. And then we started work. There was a bar on (inaudible) for a drink after work (inaudible). So we (inaudible). (sounds of a dog in the background?) This car caught my eye. I said I’m going to buy it tomorrow. Never could drive. I never drove a car or anything else. Next day I went down there and I got that car and I didn’t drive it (inaudible) because I couldn’t drive, I was always learning. I paid $1205, I mean and 50 cents and I borrowed money all over, I had the cash for it, and the guy wouldn’t leave me the half a dollar off, 50 cents. He wants his whole 50.
Kane: Was it a new car?
Kostelnik: Yeah.
Kane: Were you married at that time?
Kostelnik: No. I was 26 then. In 1939 I got a Plymouth.40 That time they were 971, I remember that. And I got $171 for my old car, $800. And today, you couldn’t do that today.
00:38:57 Kane: Yeah, definitely. Where did you live all the years you worked at Bethlehem?
Kostelnik: In this ward all the time.
Kane: And did you buy your homes or did you rent them?
00:00:59 Kostelnik: I rented from— I got married in 1928 and was shortly married. They built this home, I think in 1929. This home was built here.
39 Dodge is a brand of cars and trucks manufactured by Chrysler Corporation. 40 Plymouth was a brand of cars and trucks manufactured by Chrysler Corporation. It was discontinued in 2001. Mrs.Kostelnik: Yeah. I forget when it was.
Kostelnik: I bought my home and I moved down to Sixth Street 1937.
Mrs.Kostelnik: Well we were married about 14 years because Eddie was 15 when he died.
Kostelnik: Well, I recall this. In 19— I got married in 1928. I lived with my mother and dad and right next door. We had our first three children there, too. Until 1936, I guess, and I bought a home on Sixth Street. And that’s the first time we ever had an inside toilet.
Kane: Oh my gosh.
Kostelnik: It’s the first time and then we thought we were in heaven. (inaudible) that home yet on Sixth Street.
Kane: Doesn’t have an inside toilet?
Kostelnik: Oh yeah, now. I mean that’s the first home that ever had one. I still own that home down there yet.
Kane: You still own it?
Kostelnik: Yeah, that one down there.
Kane: Do you rent it out to other people?
Kostelnik: Yeah. She, it was her home.
00:40:26 Kane: Did you know about any housing that Bethlehem Steel rented to people? Do you know where that housing was, if there was any?
Kostelnik: Well, the steel company has a lot of housing. In the First World War? Yeah, the First World War, and over town there they had a big project and they’d sell it to employees.
00:00:59 Kane: They would sell it or rent it?
Kostelnik: Well, either way.
Kane: Oh I see.
Kostelnik: (inaudible)
Kane: Were they nice houses?
Kostelnik: Well they were frame and two story. Well they, in fact, there my boy’s living there yet, on Wood Street. He bought one of those homes. And they have them on the Heights also, up there, I believe.
00:41:25 Kane: There’s something else. Oh, during the war years, do you remember a lot of women working at Bethlehem?
Kostelnik: Oh yeah, down there, oh yes, we had them, yeah.
Kane: Did that cause any trouble?
00:00:59 Kostelnik: No.
Kane: They did their share of the work?
Kostelnik: Yeah, they were (inaudible) about (inaudible) a 100 yards away from us.
Kane: Did they separate the men and women at all? Did the women do certain jobs that the men didn’t do?
Kostelnik: Yeah. They were welding. Welding and all that stuff. Working pretty hard.
Kane: But they did their share of the job?
Kostelnik: They had to be masculine and (inaudible) sure. That’s away from us, you know what I mean. I always saw them down there but I— At 3 o’clock in the morning when they’d pass there to eat (inaudible).
Kane: There weren’t any women in your department though?
Kostelnik: Not in our department, no.
00:42:14 Kane: I see. Were you ever in charge of men? Did you have to give orders to the people or anything?
Kostelnik: At the time I was unit leader, a year or two, I guess. First World War.
Kane: Did you enjoy that, being in charge?
00:00:59 Kostelnik: I enjoyed all the work down there.
Kane: Did you enjoy being in charge of other people though?
Kostelnik: Yeah. It was routine, I mean. You treat a person half decent, you always get respect back. You don’t have to worry about that. Of course, you don’t tramp on them. I never— I’ll be 74 and I never had any trouble with anybody.
Kane: I see.
00:43:00 Kostelnik: (inaudible) just for a second.
Kane: Shut it off?
Kostelnik: Yes. (inaudible) (tape off)
00:00:59 Kane: I can’t think of anything else really. Like I think we’ve covered just about everything, unless you have something else that you’d like to say.
Kostelnik: Yes. (inaudible) win on Saturday (?) (laughs)
Kane: You want what?
Kostelnik: I want to see if you will win on Saturday (?) (inaudible).
Kane: (chuckling) Oh. But anything else about Bethlehem?
Kostelnik: (inaudible) Had a lot of trouble here, I know, but a new garage over town and everything else.
Kane: The Steel wasn’t good for it or something? What was the trouble?
Kostelnik: Well I mean, he has litigation now going against the city. They’re supposed to make a big garage over town.
Kane: Yeah.
Kostelnik: Seven hundred car garage. This guy claims it’s only for the Valley Bank41 and the plaza now. I don’t know anything about that. I don’t know about that kind of stuff. Well, everything’s all right now, I suppose, and easily controlled.
Kane: Okay.
Kostelnik: I’d like to hear that tape sometime, I mean—
Kane: Well, you know, I could play some of it back now, if you’d like.
Kostelnik: Yes.
(end of recording)
41 Project staff were unable to identify this financial institution.