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Meeting of the Parliament MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT Wednesday 3 May 2000 (Afternoon) Volume 6 No 3 £5.00 Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body 2000. Applications for reproduction should be made in writing to the Copyright Unit, Her Majesty‘s Stationery Office, St Clements House, 2-16 Colegate, Norwich NR3 1BQ Fax 01603 723000, which is administering the copyright on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Produced and published in Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body by The Stationery Office Ltd. Her Majesty‘s Stationery Office is independent of and separate from the company now trading as The Stationery Office Ltd, which is responsible for printing and publishing Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body publications. CONTENTS Wednesday 3 May 2000 Debates Col. TIME FOR REFLECTION ...................................................................................................................................... 211 ABOLITION OF FEUDAL TENURE ETC (SCOTLAND) BILL: STAGE 3 ....................................................................... 213 Motion—[Mr McCabe]—agreed to. ABOLITION OF FEUDAL TENURE ETC (SCOTLAND) BILL ...................................................................................... 257 Motion—[Mr Jim Wallace]—moved. The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace) .......................................................... 257 Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP) ........................................................................................................ 259 Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con) .......................................................................................................... 261 Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab) ...................................................................................................... 262 Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD) ....................................................................................... 263 Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP) ............................................................................................ 263 Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green) ................................................................................................................. 264 Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP) ....................................................................... 264 Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) ........................................................................................ 265 Mr Jim Wallace ............................................................................................................................................ 265 DECISION TIME ................................................................................................................................................. 267 GOVAN SHIPYARD............................................................................................................................................. 268 Motion—[Gordon Jackson]—debated. Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab) .................................................................................................... 268 Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP) ............................................................................................................... 270 Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab) .................................................................................. 271 Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con) ........................................................................................ 272 Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill) (Lab) ................................................................................................ 273 Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD) ..................................................................................................................... 274 Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP) ......................................................................................................... 275 Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP) ............................................................................................................. 275 Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab) .................................................................................................. 276 The Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Henry McLeish) ........................................................... 277 211 3 MAY 2000 212 Suddenly they were united in one single aim to be Scottish Parliament rid of him and all he stood for, and they crucified him. Wednesday 3 May 2000 Although evil was overcome, sadly the (Afternoon) spectacles that are described in this Indian parable are still worn in some measure by all of [THE DEPUTY PRESIDING OFFICER opened the us. As we look back over two millennia, we can meeting at 14:30] see how intolerance on the grounds of race and gender has been outlawed and attitudes have changed, but we still tend to view matters from the point of view of our own interests and prejudices. Time for Reflection Political and religious leaders have recently acknowledged past wrongs, and endeavoured to The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George set new standards nationally and internationally, Reid): The first item of business is time for but still situations are allowed to develop that reflection, which will be led by Reverend Rachel permit injustice to gain the upper hand. We still Dobie, minister of the parishes of Upper have a long way to travel. Tweeddale. My prayer for those who are in a position to Reverend Rachel J W Dobie (Minister of the exercise leadership, to formulate legislation, is Parishes of Upper Tweeddale): Once upon a this. That we may always be ready to stand beside time, so the story goes, when humankind was very the oppressed and the victims of injustice. That we new, the custom arose of putting spectacles on all may have the courage to speak out against what newborn babies. No one knows why it was done, seems to fly in the face of truth. That we may learn but the effect was to distort colours so that black to act with foresight, rather than react with appeared white and red appeared green. They hindsight. Much has changed since the calls to also distorted shapes, so that fat appeared thin, crucify, but much still calls out for change. near became far, and so on. Most alarming was that slight variations were applied to the lenses May God‘s blessing rest on your work this week according to social and cultural origin, so that and always. Amen. groups of people began to see one another as horrible or superior, and so quarrelling began, even in public places. However, the custom of wearing the spectacles became universal, and in time, people hardly realised that they were wearing them at all. Sadly, no control was ever introduced regarding the variations that could be made to the lenses, and so in time, the world was filled with the sound of quarrelling, hatred and even warfare. But then there was born a baby who would not wear the spectacles. He saw people as they really were, and they appeared to him so alike. They had the same needs, fears and desire to be loved, and although they addressed God by different names, they were in one sense all his children. So what he saw as he grew up shocked and distressed him. He tried to teach people, and many listened, moved by what he had to say: ―Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you and pray for those who ill-treat you. Do not judge others and God will not judge you; do not condemn others and God will not condemn you. Forgive others and God will forgive you.‖ Most of those who heard him found that what he said made sense, and they tried to follow him and put into practice what he taught, but others were infuriated. It challenged their way of life, and they insisted that they were not all the same, and how could everyone be equally loved and equally valued in the eyes of God? So they hated him. 213 3 MAY 2000 214 marshalled list and which have already been Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc debated to be moved as a block. If members are content, I will put a single question on (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3 amendments moved in that way. We will move to the marshalled list. The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid): The next item of business is consideration Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) of business motion S1M-798, in the name of Mr (SNP): The best laid plans of mice and men, Tom McCabe on behalf of the Parliamentary Deputy Presiding Officer—on a point of order. I Bureau, on the timetabling of stage 3 of the wrote to Sir David Steel on this matter, which Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc (Scotland) Bill. I ask relates to amendments that are submitted but any member who wishes to speak against the rejected as inadmissible. I accept the position motion to press their request-to-speak button now. under the standing orders, but seek your guidance on the procedures for changing the standing Motion moved, orders so that amendments that are put forward That the Parliament agrees that the time for and rejected are published, with the reasons for consideration of Stage 3 of the Abolition of Feudal Tenure the rejection, and on whether the Procedures etc. (Scotland) Bill be allotted as follows, so that debate on Committee might consider a method whereby, if each part of the proceedings, if not previously brought to a the member wants to press on with the conclusion, shall be brought to a conclusion on the expiry
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