Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]
Legislative Assembly
TUESDAY, 1 APRIL 1952
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
2078 M ember Sworn [ASSEMBLY.] Question.<~,
QUESTIONS.
EuREKA CREEK ·wEIRS. IUr. H. B. TAYJ,OR (Clayfieldi asked the Secretary for Public Lands and Irrigation- "In relation to the Bruce \Veir :111rl Leaf gold \Vrir, on the Walsh River, and Solanum IV cir, on Eureka Creek, will he advise- '' 1. How many pumping licenc~s ha Ye been approved above ancl belfm· these three weirs? '' 2. HmY manY license Hon. 1'. A. :FOLEY (Delyanclo} replied- " 1. Bruce \Veir, 30 licences; T,enfgolcl Weir, 14 licence,;; Solanum \Vcir, 10 licences. '' 2. Figures arc not available. Owing to completion of this season's tobacco Cl'op, and the fact that l'ain has fallen, it is unlikely that much demand has been made on the storages since 1 January last. '' 3. The question of making a charge is Teceh-ing cousiclcm tion.' ' J·:xPE::-fDITGRE ON NORTHERN STA'l'E HIGHWAY. ~Jr. COBURN (Burdekin) asked the TrcasuTer- "l!p to the latest date foT ''"hieh the :figures are available, what was the total cxpemliture on the following sections of the Northern State Highwny, viz., (a) Proser pine to AyT, nnd (b) Ayr to Towns.-i!!e ·? '' Hon. E. J. WALSH (Bundaberg} replied- TUESDAY, 1 APRIL, 1952. '' Since inception of the ]\fain Ro:-uh Board until 29 FebruaT:y, 1952, the total expenditure, including both permanent woTks and maintenance, is as follows: Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. J. H. :\J::um, Bris (a) Proserpinc to Ayr, £;'i20,000; (b) Ayr bane) took the chair at 11 a.m. to Tmvns.-ille, £776,000.'' ASSENT TO BILLS. XEW BOWEX-COLLIXSVILLE ROAD. Assent to the following Bills Teported by Mr. COBUR'Y (Burdekin} asl;.ed the Mr. Speaker- Treasurer- '' In reference to his answer last year State Electricity Commission Acts and to my question relative to Commomrenlth Another Act Amendment Bill. aid towanls the construction of a main Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration road between Bowen and Collinsville, has Acts Amendment Bill. construction of this road been commenced'? If not, when is it likely to be commenced~'' MEMBER SWORN. Hon. E. J. WALSH (Bundaberg) replied- Mr. Thomas Martin Crowley took the oath " Because of shortage of surveying staff of alliJginnM. it has not yet been possible to detail a Ma1 eeba-Dirnbu,lah [1 APRll..] Irrigation l'Toject. :lOi!J surveyor for this 1rork, although the route recommendations of the Commissioner of has been p.xaminccl bY the Commissioner's Irrigation and Water Supply which District Engineer.'' • appear on page 4 of his report on the Mareeba-Dimbulah Irrigation project.' '' XUMBERS AND COSTS, MINISTERIAL CARS. Motion agreed to. 3Ir. COBGRN (Burdekin), for Jir. AIKENS (Mundingburra), asked the COMMITTEE. Premier- (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Farrell, '' 1. What are the makes and purchase l\1aryborough, in the chair.) prices of all cars used by Cabinet i\Tinisters? Hon. T. A. FOLEY (Belyando-Secre '' 2. VV!wt is the annual cost of running tary for Public I,ands and Irrigation) (11.10 and maintenance (including drivers' wages) a.m.) : I move- of the Ministerial fleet of cars? '' That the House approYCs of the estab lisluuent of the undertaking (Marecba '' 3. Are Ministers limited to the use of Dimbulah Irrigation project) in acconlauce one car each, or is it a fact that some ::lfinisters are provided IYith more than one? with the Jll'ovisions of the Inigation Acts, 192:l to 1949, and the recommendations of If so, who are the Ministers aml how many eclrs haH each?'' the Commissiouer of Irrigation and \Vater Supply which appear on page 4 of his Hon. V. C. HAIIt (Sout11 Brisbane) revort on the 2.fareeba-Dimbulah Irrigation rcplie(L- project.'' 1 '' The number of cars allotted fOT the l! or :1 nu1uher of years fanners in tlle use of Ministers is the minimum requirec1 Mareeba-Dimhulah area have grown tobueco for the purpose of enabling them to cany under dry-farming conditions, hut experience out their official duties. Thev are of has slwm1 that if this valuable industrY is various makes and 1vere ptu~hased at to be maintained and expanded irrigatio'n is figures much lower than present-day values. essential. The resnlb; obtained by 1hcs<> Furthermore, the number has not increasocl farmers, ll'llo are favourablv situatetl on for come years and, as a matter of fact, it flo11·ing stremns or near 11·eirs that have is less than for some time past, notwith hcen eom;tructed, have tlemonstratcd that standing the increase in the number of 1vith 111 c controlletl application of water Ly Cabinet Ministers. The total cost of run irrigation, excellent yields of high-quality leaf ning anc1 maintenance for the financial can he olJtainecl, but unfortunately much year 1950-1951 (inclm1ing drivers' wages good tohneco lnlltl is not acljacnnt to streams afnounting to approximately £6,300) was or to weirs. £10,532 6s. 4cl. I IYOu!cl mention that cars Even though augmented by several 1vcirs allocated to Ministers are used extensivelv already constructc•tl by the Irrigation an As a result of those further investigations, "(7) Although the total expenditure on it has been shown that a large reservoir can Tinaroo Falls dam and irrigation works is be created by building a larger dam at approximately 50 per cent. greater than Tinaroo Falls on the Barron River instead that for Nullinga dam and irrigation works, of the smaller dam previously proposed. In production is nearly twice as great. the report now before the House the Com '' (8) The ratio of the value of increased missioner of Irrigation and Water Supply production to expenditure is much greater has submitted for comparison alternative for Tinaroo Falls dam than for Nullinga schemes, (a) and (b), each of which would dam.'' involve the construction of a dam on the Walsh River at Nullinga and another dam Hon. members will agree that after that on the Barron River at Tinaroo Falls. As thorough investigation and analysis there is he points out, either of the two schemes no ot:her alternative but to accept the Com could be carried out in two stages. The missioner's recommendation as set out in his alternative schemes differ mainly in the order report. Another very important point is that in which the dams would be built. water available from the Tinaroo Falls dam will provide adequate development in the When that point was reached, an economic Mareeba area for many years and the decision analysis was made, the results of which arc to construct one dam only instead of two set out in Table A of the report, and which will make resources available at an earlier establish beyond doubt that if the Barron date to begin other projects in other parts River is adopted as a source of supply only of the State. That is very important because one dam would be needed, because any addi in the last few years, although we have tional production that would rPsult from increased the number of engineers and tech the building of a second dam on the W alsh nicians employed by the department about lliver woald be so small as not to "·arrant three times compared with the number we the expenditure of more than £7,000,000 on had in pre-war days, we still have not enough that dam. Compared with the Nullinga engineers and technicians to enable us to dam, the Tinaroo Falls dam has the follo>Y crrrry on a much bigger programme than ing advantages, viz.:- we are undertaking now. By building only '' (1) The location of the reservoir is the one dam, and by making it of concrete, we snch that it can command the whole of shall be able to make water available as the the area of suitable soils where Nullinga >York progresses and at the same time free clam can command the western portion some of our staff for other projects. only.'' 'l'he construction of a weir immediatelv on the Walsh River will bring relief to exi~ting I point out also the rainfalls in the two farms on the left bank of the \\'alsh Hi\'er areas are Tinaroo 54.4 inches, and Nullinga sooner thrm >Yould the construction of the inches. 42.6 Nullinga dam. "(2) It can provide rather more than three times the qnantity of water available The Commissioner also rccommcnrls thRt from Nullinga rlam at one-thinl of the the proposal to build a drrm at J'\ullinga un cost rwr acre foot of draft.'' the vValsh Hinr be deferred inrlcfinitely, ~ince it >Yill not be needed until it is Ecc-es ::IIr. Uiley: Are those Tainfall figures at fifll'Y to conserYe nll aYnilalJlz_• \Y:J.tcr. ITe also the dam site~ re~ommenrls that approval be given foe· the construction of a clam at Tinaroo Falls on illr. :FOLK¥: They are in what is known the Darron RiYcr to have n stnrage C:l.T)acity as the catdnnc·nt area. 1 point out also Qf not less than 320,000 acrc-fcr:t. ~ that the rust of storage per acre-foot at Another recommendation is that sections of Nullinga worked out at £29.8 as against the West Darron main channel, the Marecba £24.5 at Tinaroo. main channels, and Atberton Creek lateral '' ( 3) It >Yill be possible to store some he construrted concurrently >vith the build water during the construction of the ing of the 'l'inaroo :vans chim rmd that a "-~~r on the \Yalsh River be constructed imnwclr dan1. '' ntclv at 1G7 miles to impound 840 acre-feet That is because it is proposecl to build the of ,~·atcr. Tinaroo Falls dam of concrete, whereas the Nullinga dam on the Walsh River originally Anot!Jrr recommendation is that a section was to be an earth dam. of the South \Valsh channel lie constructed concurrently with the building of the weir ' ' ( 4) The stream flow has been measured and that the remainrler of the pt·oject, inclnd· over a long period and the quantity of ing main and reticulation ehann-1s and pump water flowing into the reservoir, is known ing strrtions, be carried out continuousl:-· until to a high degree of accuracy, whereas- completed :md that f:ums be developed con in the case of Nnllinga dam, the estimated current!_\· with that work. inflow is based on meagre information and 'J'lwse recommcm1ations correspond with is far less reliable. the proposals described as Stage 1, Alterna "(5) It will proYic1e more water rer ti.-e B. in the Commissioner's report, \Yith farm than N ullinga dam. the addition of the weir at 167 miles on the Walsh River and the connecting channel from '' (6) It will serve approximately twice this weir. Reference to details of Stage 1, as many farms aggregating neruly three Alternative B. on page 5 of tl1e Commis times the irrigated area that can be sup sioner's report will provide full information plir·d f10m Nullinga dam. and gi>·e a comparison of the two proposals. }vfm·eeba.Dimbulah [l APRIL.] Irrigation Project. 2081 In order to have it recorded, I propose balance being either grazing or forest land quoting from the actnal report. The table on or State forest reserves. Hon. members will page 5 shows that. see that some resumptions will have to be made. One small village will possibly have to be absorbed and there will be a diversion Nullinga Tinaroo Dam on Falls Dam of a road, and a railway system as well. Walsh on Barron All these costs of resumptions and the work River. River. of carrying out these diversions and recon C.1tchment area, sq. miles . . 124 220 struction of roads is included in the total Average annual rainfall, estimated cost stated in the report. inches ...... 42·6 54·4 r.tpaeity of proposed stor- The purpose of the project is primarily 240 000 320,000 N;r~~f~~;;;~~f drait avail~ 1 ' to grow tobacco. able for irrigation, acre- 'I feet ...... 50,000 165,000 It is expected that some 1,180 tobacco Cost of storage, total . . £7,166,000 £7,830,000 farms, including those already established, Cost of storage, per acre-feet will be developed. IIoweyer, the tobacco soils of rapacity . . . . 1 £29·8 £2±·5 Cost of storage, per acre-feet, arc not in one continuous ,-,rea. Hon. mem of normal annual draft .. I £143 £-±7·5 lJers who have stmlicd the coloured map that is providccl with the repmt will notice that they ::ne s"ntterccl over the area, with other Hon. members will agree that taking it from agricnlttual soils interspaced between them, eYery possible angle the Tinaroo Falls clam so that a considerable amount of land will be on the Barron River is the better. watered for mixetl farming, the raising of crops of various kinds, ant! the growing of I shoulcl perlwps tell the ColEmittco of J1CTlllilllC'Ht v:1stures, in respeet of which \Yl' the number of farms available to be nre at the present time cnnying out a .t<·oo•1 supplied with water. The table shows- tlcal of experimental >York. \Ye have alread." tlctennincd tlwt permanent pastures :ne of 1 1 Nnlliuga Tinaroo advantage in the fattening of cattle. It is Dam on l'alls Dam estimated thnt some 240 ngricultnral farms 1 , ~*~~ ! onR~~":~~n will be est a ulished by the water that is to ------i----1, ____ Le supplied. ?;umber of tobacco farms .. I 7681 1,180 Nun1h( r of mixed agri-~ It is intended to resume or acquire all 'nlt11ral farms . . . . Nil 740 lands in the area, subject to retention by Total arc<~ irrigated per I I annum, acres . . . . 12,288 37,920 existing' farmers of suitable living areas Estimated total expendi- 1 nncler irrigated production. All resumed ture, including working i hmds will be Tesnbdiritled to provide for t·xpenses, to date of corn- ! I pletion of works and farms: £13,766,095 £20,138,104 m·eragc areas of 50 acres in the case of -·------tobacco farms. and some 80 acres in the case of mixed ag1'icnltural farms. The design I think I have quoted the most important of subdirision >Yili be based on detailed topo phases under Table A. There is fm'iher graphical and soil surveys to permit of the information as to when it is possible to most economical lay-ant of the irrigation provide water for these farms. works. Tlle CHAIR.liA~: There is far too mu ell Sufficient water will be made available for '1cisc in the Chamber and lobby. tobacco farms to permit of the irrigation of 24 acres annually, of which 10 acres are lUr. FOLK¥: It would be possible to fOnstl'Uct the N ullinga clam on the W alsh expected to be of tobacco, and for mixed River at an early elate but it would not serve agricultmal farms to permit of the irrigation of 40 acres annually. Anyone who has been the same 'number of farms as the other on an irrigation settlement knows the work vroposal. involved in irrigating 10 acres. The irrigat To continue a description of the works, I ing of 40 acres of pastures is full time work would point out to hon. members that 320,000 over the whole of the period involved. acre-feet of water will be impounded by the Possibly a good deal of labour will have to dam at Tinaroo Falls but the exact type of be engaged to enable ns to irrigate such clam has not been finally determined and areas as are estimated. quite a lot of surveying has to be done, The total area of the various types of surveyors being at work in the area at the crops to be produced is expected to be moment. It is estimated that the height of the clam will be in the vicinity of 133 feet; Acres. the dam will be a mass gravity concrete Tobacco farms ll,800 structure requiring some 400,000 cubic yards Other crops, such as potatoes, of concrete. This requirement will test our pumpkins, cotton and peanuts 16,520 home production as -\vel! as overseas supplies. lUixecl agricultural farms for the production of cotton, The area actually submerged by the dam maize, cowpeas, peanuts and when full will be 10,000 acres and it will be other crops 9,600 necessary to resume some 15,000 acres, of which 5,284 acres are at the present time Total 37,920 being used for dairying and agriculture, the 2082 Mareeba-Dimbulah (ASSEMBLY.] Irrigation Project. The amount of water that will be delivered other rentals, is estimated to be £287,100 to farms for the various crops, after allowing per annum. The direct revenue is therefore for distribution losses, is expected to be- a long way short of the annual commitments in connection with the project. 'I'his will Percentage leave an amount of £788,700 per annum to be Acre found by the State or the State and the Com feet. of water stored. monwealth, should the Commonwealth agree to come into the scheme. These schemes must Tobacco farms . . . . 24,000 29·2 be regarded as national works and there is Other crops on tobacco farms 33,000 40·2 a precedent for Commonwealth help in Vic Mixed agricultnral crops 25,000 30·6 toria and New South \Vales, and in other Total .·I 82,000 parts of the world. No matter what State you may go to or what country in the world you may visit you will find that the sums The Commissioner has supplied me with a involved in the construction of these projects few figures sho"ing the approximate quantities and even small weirs are so immense that the of the v:uious crops that are likely to be entire capital cost cannot be passed on to the grown, as follmvs- settlers in the form of water charges. The Tobacco 11,800,000 lb. bulk of the capital cost has to be debited Potatoes 33,000 tons against the State or the State and the Com Pumpkins 33,000 tons momvealth in this case, if the Commomvealth Cotton 3,840,000 lb. joins in, but at least some of the capital co~t Maize 4,800 tons maY be recovered from the settlers. It rs Cowpeas 48,000 bushels mther interesting to find, Yvhen you come to study the matter, as a national work, that it That estimate has been presented purely to is by no means indicated that the project is indicate the extent of the production that is not a profitable one for the community. The possible from this project. Crops of major creation of closer settlement in the area and i1nportaucr, :ll'C, of eoarse. tolJ~tc·en ant1 r8tton, the increase in production will result in a the annual v.tlues of YYhich it is estimated snbstantinl Tise in indirect nvenue to the irill be £4,/00,flOO and £:lfi0,000 re,pectivoly. State anil Commonwealth, resulting not only The production of these in Australia could from the increased production and increased result -in savings on imports of about rural population, but also from the increaced 6,500,000 dollars and £300,000 per annum local urban population, and the additional on supplies from dollar aml non-sterling demand for goods and services that ~:1ch a sources respectively. 'rho proposal to con population would create. struct a weir Oil the vValsh Rii·er at 167 miles 'l'he value of this increased revenue has been and the South \Valsh main ehannel nmning found in Victoria to be equivalent to two from this weir through the left-bank vV alsh fifths of the gToss annual value of the increase area will give n supply of >Yatcr to existing in production at the farmers' principal clry or ;;cmi-dry farms in this locality earlier market. Of a total estimated increased value tlJan \Youhl have been possilJlo from the con of production of £6,161,000 annually, there f.tmction of Kullinga dam, anc1 will not cause fore the increase in indirect ren~nue from nn;· dcln~· in supply to these farms from State ancl Commomvealth is estimated to be 'Tinaroo Falls clam. The wnter '"ill not be £2,464,000, which far out-weighs the oufficicnt to provide for anv new farms at £788,700 by which the estimated annual this stage, but full c1eYelopJ}1ent of the area expenditure exceeds the direct revenue. Hon. will be possible Yd1cn Yvatei· is available from membeTs will see that the direct revenue the Tinaroo J<'nlls dam. is limited but the indirect revenue is such As indicated in the report, the adoption that the State and the Commonwealth will of a concrete dam at Tinaroo Falls will make benefit to the extent of a considerable nmouut. it possible to store water during construc Expre,,secl as a percentage of' the capital rost, tion of the clnm. Under these circumstances the indirect returns amount to 12 per cent., it is expected that supply from the dam can >vhich can be reganled as a vcTy favourable be made available in 1966-57 and progressive result. development of tbe project is expected to be In addition to the advantages to be gained achieved up to the total indicated in Stage 1, from increased production, the increased altcrnatin~ B, of the repOl't, of 1,180 tobacco population in the arcr, that will result from farms and 240 mixed agricultural farms by the development is estimated to be 16,000, 19CB-69. or an increase of appToximately C'50 per cent. on the present populati~n. Hon .. membeJ:s The estimated capital cost of the project can Tealiso what that inll me:m m benefit is set out in the report and, based on wages to the northern pnrt of the State and its nnd prices ns at 30 September, 1951, is importance from a defence point of view. £19,3:30,000, including the cost of the weir nt 167 miles on the Walsh River and the Mr. H. B. Taylor: That is on com connecting channel from this weir. The esti pletion of the work~ muted annual expenditure on the project for operations, maintenance and management, Mr. FOLEY: Yes. There will be a l1nsed on wages ancl prices as at 30 June, local farming population and an urban 1951, is £165,000 and for interest and redemp population adjacent to it. tion charges £911,000, a total of £1,076,000. I have purposely given a very full outline The direct revenue from the project, includ of this proposal in order to let memlileTs inr; all water and drainage charges, land and know its possibilities from the point of Mareeba-Dimbnlah ~l APRIL.] Irrigation Project. 2083 view of higher living standards. Naturally the carrying out of certain stages of the we get higher returns from the pastures and work and even had to arrange with the cultivated crops raised on irrigatec1 land Bureau of Reclamation in that country to alHl there is a greater chance of maintaining carry out the work of planning and designing a higher standard of living in the northem the various weirs and channels of the project. part of the State if this will be established Mr. H. B. Taylor: There was another than if the people there were compelled to motive besides that. rely on the dry-farming system used in the past few years. I visited this area a number llir. FOLEY: The reason for doing that of years ago nncl I noticed then the number was that they could not get the staff in of deserted farms aud the barns and other Australia. They are unable to get staff here structures that have been built there at because of the demand for engineers in all considerable cost. the States and by the Commonwealth In conclusion, there is one subject I wish Government. Our own chief engineer had to touch upon, that is, the foodstuffs that to do the designing as well as his ordinary >~·ill be required to feed this nation as well work during the period in which we were as other peoples as the years go on. A state training a young man in this work. Our ment was made by a correspondent in the difficulties have been overcome to some extent, Press a month or two ago that we should but when in such big projects as the Barron concentrate upon the production of foodstuffs dam or the Dawson River dam, failure could rather than tobacco. The reason why I result if experienced planning and designing mentioned that the area is suitable for engineers were not employed. tobacco-growing is that it has been found I have great pleasure in submitting the that these lands are more suitable for the proposal for the consideration of the production of very good tobacco leaf for Committee. which a high price prevails, than for other crops, but that does not mean that the land :il[r. NICKLIN (Landsborough-Leader w~ll not produce other crops; tobacco land of the Opposition) (11.52 a.m.): In con Will produce other crops, as has been proved sidering the motion moved by the ::\Iinister at Clare and other places and I feel that this morning, ;ye have to realise that the if ever the time comes when a call has to passing of our motion agreeing to a pmject be made to the farmers of the North to does not necessarily mean that in the forsee produce fo_odstuf!'s to meet the requirements ablc futme we shall see dams built, inigation of eve~ this nahon or any other nation that channels constructed, and farms drawing call Will be answered. It is an inherent water from those channels; in fact, if we human characteristic to want to provide food look back over the record of previous for those who arc hungry. This land will motions and legislation passed here to deal ?e used primarily for tobacco-growing but with developmental projects in the State, It can be converted to the production of we do not see a ;-ery happy picture. For foodstuffs if the occasion demands it. example, what b.appened at Blair Athol q Then there is Peak Downs. A great deal of I have endeavoured to give the Committee money was lost there. Again, what happened a full account from all angles of this project to the Border Rivers scheme~ and I believe we shall have the fullest support of the Committee in passing the motion. To draw an analogy, the Government's But the occasion may be taken to mention various spectacular developmental projects the progress we are making in irrigation in that we ha;-e had before us in the past may this State generally. It is true that up to be likened to a yery slow-motion picture of date we have built only a certain number of a platoon of soldiers marching at a snail's weirs ranging in capacity from 400 to over pace towards an ohjcctiYe on the other side 2,000 ac.re-feet but they are definitely of the ;yorJd. The passing of this motion uneconomic. The Commissioner and others means nothing beyond another addition to a of his staff with whom I have discussed the programme that would take hundreds of matter point out that the smaller weir is years to complete, even under favourable les.s ~conomic than the larger proposal, and circumstances. That is borne out by the fact tlns IS our first move towards undertaking that recently in this Chamber we were told one of the larger projects we have had under by a reply to a question in connection with investigation. the construction of a straightont bridge across the Haughton River that it will take In the last few years we have trebled our years and years to complete. If the Mareeba staff but at the moment the position in that Dimbulah irrigation project marches at the respect is virtually stationary. We have same rate of speed as the Haughton River approval to appoint inexperienced engineers railway bridge, it will be completed in about graduates just leaving the universities, if the year A.D. 5452. ;ve can get them, but the new men coming m so far have really only balanced th~ We are quite justified in being sceptical resignations that have taken place. about the Government's intention with regard to this motion, because the yery scheme the Mr. Hiley: Is it the same in the South? Minister is introducing was mentioned in a llir•. .J;'OLEY: Yes. The Snowy Ri\•er report of the Bureau of Im-estigation under authontres went so far as America Great The Land and '\Vater Resources Aet of 1943 Britain and Europe, and after inter~iewing away back in 1946. That is six years ago. many hundreds of engineers in those countries That report stated- were Emccessfnl in obtaining the services of " The Irrigation an (I Water Supply Com only about eight. They have now found it mission has commenced the construction of necessary to call for tenders in America for a weir on the '\Valsh River near Dimbulah, 2084 J!l areeba -Dimbulah [ASSEMBLY.] Irrigation Project "·hile inYcstigations at a major storage l1eing constructed, ani! that is y,-],;· \:. n re site on the \Yalsh River, approximnt0ly entitled to ask, ''Are the Go,·ernmcnt bir five miles upstream from J\Tareeha, are dinknm ~? '' in this project or is it another being undertaken. ' ' of those fantastic schemes to YYin the next Ani! a year later, 1947, in Labour's polic1· election? It is too silly to bring out the--.> speech delivered on 8 April, 1947, YYC ha:l projects ancl then drop them like hot co .. l-; this quotation- anc1 clo nothing about them. Do the Gm·errc· '' At the \Ynlsh Rh·er, sites have been men1 n'allv mean business in the coustn;ctcL'" of the J\I~rceba-Dimbulah project? selected for the construction of Yn~irs to provide innnedi:1tc storage, pcndi11g tilL' JUr. S1mrkes: If they do, they are not develop1nent of the large projett for the running true to form. construction of a tlam :1t approxinwtcll· 161 miles, for the purpose of inignting JUr. NICKLIN: No, they would not he :rUIEljnp: t1·ne to fonn jf the;~ got onto ~he the J\Iareebn-Dimlmlah tobncco lands:'' job. 'l'hat lws not been tltei1· form '" ti~e In 1947, the Labour Party placed lJcfure t llc past. ]lCOplc of North Queensland a definite ]H·omuc to construct the l'\ullinga dam on tl1c \Valsh \Ve hear much from )10n. members OlllJO·-ii~ }i]yer. Non·, fise ycar~s later, the' Conuni,c..: about these works in the l'\orth and tlll~i. sioner of Irrigation and \Vater ~::tpply defence value to Australia, and so on. AH l'ccommends-and this appears on png·c' 4 of these projects arc said to have a c1vienc. his Teport on the ::'>Iareel1n -Tli ml, nl.ll1 iFign ·· value, ani! so they have, hut onl~- if t!,c~ tion pTojeet-tllat this propo.-nl i>e ,]derrcll can be constructed within a reasonalJk tim•·. indcfiniteh- in faYOlH of ;1 Ha LT On J1iycr They will be no defence Yaluc to us n1 all, ~theme. ·,That JHOlllise nut~-ie h1 lfl-17 n1n~t lwwcvcr, if they tnkc 50 or GO ye:ns to c·on·· l1aye ]Jeen Lrrsed on Yen· fiims,· fonn1lations. plete. K othing can he said to he of y·alw, AppaTently the same tliing ap.plies to many as a defence project unless it can h1' t>>L · other projects placed hefor•' the pc·r.,!·,i,• oi strudec1 well within the period of 10 ~-car,, this State at election time. because the next 10 years-nnf1 i1 m"'' shorter than that-will be our real tl>lll,_,r~" 1 E:xaminincr this 1natter. \. 1llll~1 !tS o~n· period. Therefore, if we are to con:'tn;et Sc'lYcs thesea qre,;tion>- · anY yyorks with a defence value, tliL'\. "'i:l 1. Is this pro.iect just ::nuth'r ac\clitioll ha~·c to be constructed vcr~· quick]~'· · 1 t i< to the present pl'opagaJH1:; pr tolJacco-grO\Ying, lmt I again emphasise that side arc concerned. \Ve believe that irriga there is a limit to the cost that can be bol'lle tion has a tremendous part to play in Queens C'Hn by men \Yho are selling tobacco at the land in the future. high average price of 9s. 3u. a lb. That I know the :MinisteT is a fair man, but I limit applies not only to the cost of the draw his attention to one thing as far as irrigation "·orks per acre of irrigable land, the handling or the mishandling of this mat lmt also to the cost of establishing a new ter is coHccrned. The House has been farm. vVe all know the tremenrlous cost informed for some time that there were big in establishing farms at the present time. irrio·ation projects in train for the Walsh \Ve have the case of men who wen• granter! RivZ.T. We were told that it was to follow the sugar-cane assigun1ents in good areas, but lines of a main stmage dam at Nullinga. >Yalked off bc·camic of the trouble theY met Last year, at our mvn expense, fou~· of us in regard to finance. vV e have some ~oldier went to that area and saw eyery \Yen- there settlers in the wheat areas and tobacco that was either built or in course of con growers at Clare who hm·e lw<1 t rou hie in struction. Thanks to the courtesy of the regard to costs. So it is essential that \YL' Minister's officers, we were taken over the look carefully into the economics of this whole of the territorv we were shown the proposal particularly when we han to take site of the Nullinga d;m, we were given the iHto account the fact that less profitable opportunity of seeing test holes that . were nops than tobacco have to be grown in those down and acncrallv to study one particular "re as to make a sound farming undertaking project. ~~-e spent weeks considering it. of it. Cotton, cmYpeas all(] p·;anuts and so I have talked with departmental officers about on, could uc grmYn. The gnm·ing of cowpeas that particular projed anrl \Yhat I saw and is a very profitable undertaking under proper then after some sketchy Press statement eultural methods, but they hn1·e not always issudd bv the Minister, I have put into my brought the tremendous prit·r• tllnt the:· arc hands a" report not for the proj?ct we have bringing at the present time. \V c lWCll to been examining, not for the proJect ~hat as have much better cultural mctho '!'he thing that worried me about the Nul responsibilities on a matter of such magni linga clam was the great depth of alluvial tude. I am going to say that it is probable in tlte footing. I saw test holes clown for that the Minister has found himself quite feet upon feet, still in allm·ial. Unless you unexpectedly requiring approval for some c-an get the base of the clam onto someting schemes to go ahead. It is true that we had ~olicl and impervious, once the water starts to a late and poor wet season and that he has get under the foot, whether it is em·th-filled succeeded in finishing both the Solanum and or not, the dam becomes a very doubtful Leafgolc1 weirs more quickly than he thought projec-t. he would; this is probably the first occasion Jir. Jesson: That is what happened at he has been able to finish any weirs between ?Ill. (; ;l!'net. hro IYl'i seasons. Jir. l<'oley: \Ve made wonderful progress :lUr. HILEY: No. There they are on a at Sellheim as a result of the dry period. "Oli(l rock-bar. ']'he only trouble they had there was that there were some fissures in the 1Ir. HILEY: The Minister finds himself rock and they had to wait until the clam with jobs being finished and he is desirous ''"as empty to pour clay into the holes to of retaining his trained men and plant in senl off those fissures. This question of North Queensland. It would be quite easy to ''"atcr getting under the foot of a dam is YelT say, ''Shift your X orth Queensland men serious, and I did not like the look of tl;e to work lagging on the iYiacintyre.'' That is country at the Nullingn 'itc from that point not practicable. \Vhen you have men ancl of Yiew. plant in North Queenslnncl, that is the best In addition, I found upon inquiry that place to use them. Whilst I appreciate the there was no ad_equatc stream-gauging record Minister's finding himself arranging a flo•v of the \Valsh RlVer, and it seems to me that of construction work I lloubt whether he if you are going to speml millions of pounds expected the extraorclinaTy drought we have to lmilcl a dam that no-one can sav with just ha(l, but it is not Tight for him to ask eertainty will ever be filled m- remai1i toler Parliament to approve of an unllertaking on nbl:· full, it is certainly a bad business such a short notice because it is not in the pmjec-t. I must confess tlwt nt that stage I !Jest interPst of' inigation. Let me remind had doubts about the regularity of the flow him that he has plenty of friends in irriga of the \Vnlsh River at the J\iul!inga site am1 tion matters on this side of the Chamber and I spoke to some of the leading engineers I hope that on future occasions he gives us in the State about it. As n result of that, more time to look at these projects when we shall probably be c01n-incecl of their merits. I felt that probably if the~· proeeedecl with Nullinga they would haYe to build a clam big Again, I say, on the basic approach, I ?r:ough to hold_ two years' supply because, need little persuasion that the Tinaroo Falls 1f n c:nlone nussec1 the head of the Walsh dam will be the more effective site and I in one )·ear, you 'Youlcl not get any worth am convinced that it will provide a greater '' lci·,. tlo1Y awl you might ensih finish with volume of water anll >till probably overcome Minister would bring a recommendation to on the taxpayer; we seek to ask the peo plo the Committee to proceed with the scheme. I who use the roads to bear the cost of con have not had experience of the merchandising structing and maintaining them, and of paying ·of tobacco but from the figures I have on interest and redemption on them. So that as the trend of prices and the drain on sterling far as road de·. rlopment is concerned, again production of' tobaccos of reasonable quali 1ve say it is not something for which the ties I should say that this State is justified general taxpayer should pay. in risking a few million pounds on an assured Mr. Foley: You are not overlooking the future market for tobacco. It is true that high1vays, the cost of which we throw onto a lot of tobacco is grown in the sterling the whole of the taxpayers? areas, some of it being very poor and not as good as that produced in Queensland. I lUr. HILEY: The cost comes out of the should say that on my judgment of the 11ain Roads Fund and is borne mainly by the tobacco industry on a world and Empire users of the roads. I think the Minister 1vi ll basis, what the Government are doing is find that the construction of roads imposes calculated to lessen the Empire requirements no great burden on the general body of tax for dollars for many years to come. payers. In one way or another, either through grants from the petrol tax or from Frankly, however, I see no prospect for Main Roads registration fees, the great bnlk many a year to come that the Empire will of the requirement of building and main be so flush with dollars that it will not have taining roads is borne by the users of the roar1s to produce a large proportion of its own rather than by the general taxpayers. tobacco requirements. As far as the local market is concerned, even with this pro The third illustration to which I wi.,;h to ject in full swing we shall still not be pro refer is that of the railways of this State, ducing enough to meet the local demand. which again are a magnificent method of 'rhe Minister estimates that this scheme will developing any conntry. It is trne that in not be completed till thl' year 1968-69, and the case of our railways we have never sou.;ht when 1ve C<•nsider Australia's pres~nt popu· as a general practice to recover from the lation tTenil there is not the slightest ilanger people who use the railways the entire head of glutting the local market and having to charges for interest and redemption. W•J export some proportion of what we produce. have always said to the Railway Department, 'l'herefore, I repeat that as the principal crop, ''You should in your freights ::tnd fares cover tobacco strikes me as well worth while and all your costs of running the railways. On quite safe. top of that, you should make some contri bution to the head charges of interest anl1 The next thing that Teally concerns me redemption on the capital indebtedness.'' We and I think it is something that justifies the have never set out to say to the people 1d10 c:uefnl examination of this Committee--is use the railways, "You must every year pa.r the qnestion as to what should be our high enough to cover interest and redemption financial policy in the economy of these charges.'' schemes. It is perfectly true, as the Minister has said, that many other countries ask the I ask the Committee to consider those three State to bear the head charges of irrigation important examples. From the stage of projects and they merely seek to recover from hydro-electTic power, where the whole cost is the people who use the water the annual cost boTne by the 11ser, we get some trace of it of maintaining them. Let us see how we deal coming onto the general taxpayer in the case with other developmental projects, the last of road construction, and a bigger trace one of any great magnitude being the Tully coming onto the general taxpayer in the case Falls scheme. In that scheme, there is no of OUT railways. It se0ms to me that we question of asking the State to bear any of shall have to ask ourselves seriously whether the hoarl charges. Once it is established and we can maintain the principle laid down in umkr way-interest during the intervening the supplying of hydro-electric power to guide period, of course, will be carried-the full our financial approach in this case capitalisation of the Tully Falls scheme will This report says that the cost, all told, of become a charge on the people who consume running this scheme and bearing the interest the electricity. Even on that basis, the charges will be just over £1,000,000 a year. electricity that is produced is still relatively It is going to cost £164.000 for maintenance cheap and is easily saleable on the price and management and £910,000 per annum including all the head charges, so that there for interest and redemption of the principal, is no economic reason why the consumers of which is to be amortised over a. 40-50 year electricity should not bear the whole of the term. the first being determinable and the charge, including interest and redemption on second according to the sinking fund capital. That is one important example of associated with the loan. The annual cost to development in which there is no charge on the State will be about £1,075,000 and it is the genNal taxpayer; the whole of the charge estimated that when you bring all the farms is borne by the man who consumes the power into production and you get full recovery proiluced. from a.ll sources you will get £287,000 from Then 1Y8 come to the second most important the settlers. In other words, you will be means of development, that is, the construction recovering roughly one quarter of the total of ro::Hls. Everyone will agree that roads cost, leaving three quarters of it to be borne play a tremendous part in developing the by the State. resources of a country, and again we I want to say with emphasis that the extra endeavour to finance our road construction on ordinary beneficial effects of uniform taxa SllC~l a h~sis that it imposes no general charge tion enable the present State Minister and M areeba-Dimbulah [l APRIL.] I1 rigation Pmject. 2089 the Treasurer to bear such a load but let do not expect that the Commonwealth Govern me warn him that if that percentage is ment will look at the project one week and followed in the future and we can recoYer give their decision the next. The matter needs only one quarter of the total charges from very careful examination and I suggest to the people who use the water anc1 three the Minister here that he treat the Common quarters of them must be borne lJy the wealth Government more sympathetically in general taxpayer through the Treasurer, n point of time than he has treated this Parlia sheer financial drought will prevent nny ment on this occasion. I think there are very further ·extension of the hYdro-electric sound reasons why the Commomyea.lth should potential of the State. " help. I repeat that there is need for sub stantial help from the Commonwealth lJecause The Treasurer will be ahlo to cany this there is no hope of our being able to can)· project. There is clear CYidencc that· he is all the schemes in the riYcr systems of the sufficientlY flush with additional TeYenue to State. lJe able to carry the £800,000 load on this inigation project ancl that that amount is 1\Ir. WORDSWOUTH (Cook) (12.42_ p.m): not going to blast or ruin him either. But As a North Quecnslam1er, I ,,.as cxc1ted to this is the ·w alsh River project ::m cl on top see an item in the Press some months ag()o of that '~"8 have other projects under way. I to the effect that a big scheme was hope tlwt there ,,.m some day be a great envisaged for the purpose of irrigating the project of equal magnitude on the EncleaYOtn Mareeba-Dimbulah area. We looked for RiYer. Already a good deal of "·ork has been ward to the opportunity of examining in done in the Burdekin area and "·ork has detail and discussing the project, which 'ms been clone on the :Mackenzie, Drnyson, and to cost in the vicinity of £20,000,000. Bmnett Rivers. I prophe''Y that the Trea Although I agree 'Yith the hon. member surer enn ·with a degree of equanimity nceept for Coorparoo that we had limited time to this load of £800,000 in rr .pect of tlte \Valsh examine the report, I took the opportunit;· Riwr project and can do it under present over the week-end to stuc1v it in some conclitions because the present uniform tax detail. I read it through ;md stlHliecl it s~·stem him a lJcnefical proportion of from the layman's point of yiew, am1 then income I have vel'y graye clouf>ts ,,-hether I endeavourecl to read it thmugh in the he ,_.ill l1e able to accept tlJO full chaTge on same way an employel' "·oulil rea On page 4, under the heading ''Hydro At this stage I draw your attention, Mr. Electric Power'' it says- Fnrrell, to the actions of the Attorney-Gen " It may be found possible to generate eral, >Yho has been drawing his thumb and some electric power from the water I want to see irrigation possibiliti•cs ground on the Murray which, before the intro developed wherever they can be, for an duction of irrigation, was worth £6 an acre improvement in the population-holding but today eould not be bought for £300. capacity and the wealth of Australia, but l know something of what British engineers any Govennnent who will make a political have done in Jnclia and of the tremendou,; football out of such schemes and put before ]HOjects carried out by the Bmeau of 75 allegedly intelligent men a report sug T{eclamation mHl army engineers in the United gesting that the matter be refcneu to States of America. Commonwealth experts are greatly undcr I will support ;my project that is p_roved t? c~timating the intelligenc~ of members of be cconomiealiy sound and that recerves pn this Chamber. I know that my sugge~tion ority acconling to its importance in the best will fall on deaf ears because the :Minister intere .ts :md safety of the people, but I has to do what he is told, the same as \mnt to trr to put this project in its true eYeTyone else on that side of the Chamber, perspective. I think it is necessary to put but I hope that the people will realise that the bunching of this expensive project at this Tcport is not a full and true one, that this time in the right light in relation to our the estimates have no firm foundation, and national safety and immediate needs. Aus that the scheme is just as likely to cost tralia is at ''":1 r; she is engaged in an active £30,000,000 as £20,000,000. war. 'l'oo many Queens1anders perhaps are :lUr. H. B. 'l'AYLOR (Clayfield) (12.55 satisfie(l to remain intlii"ferent to that fact,. p.m.): :B'or some weeks past somebody has 1vhilst om own Queensland boys in a com been giving scraps of information to the paratiwly thin line of United Nations troops newspapers on this £19,500,000 project. I are holding back \vhat might be described as am pleased indeed that the Minister has now the Asiatic menace. Further, we all realise pTe. \Yllich includes the m·ailabilitv of food. The Hom'Yer, I agree with him that if the Minis next five year:; ma,'l· he the 'most dangerous ter or thp GoYernmcnt can produce to the in Austrnlia 's history. I want that thought Federal Go1·ernment a project that shows it is kept constantly in the back of our minds. uonomicali:r sound and practicable, the \\'hen this ses:;ion opened last August, His Common wealth Government, recognising the }:xceilency the GoYemor told us that during n"ed for the expansion of national pTOjects the preYions 12 months officers had been Eke that, will help them. engage IJe done. This State will not sit idly by and see irrigation at all. It was clone under natural the country perish as the result of lack of rainfall conditions and that will be the general enthusiasm on the part of the Federal form of deYelopment in this area. Many other Govemment and their desire to damn Queens "rops too coul(\ be grown >Yith the aid of lnnd in the eyes of the people simply because irrigation. Vegetables are one. Someone it is controlled by a Labour GoYermnent. The saicl that 11·e could not eat a ton of .-egtables Labour Goyerninent in Queensland have to a person in North Queensland, and neither developed this State. and will continue to we can, but during the >r:u l\1areeba >Yas one (]evelop it, irrespective of >vhether the of the biggest sources of supply-because of political friends of the Opposition in the irrigation-for American, Australian, and Federal Parliament give us their help. It is British troops fighting in the Pacific. Acro clearly their responsibility to come into this plctncs lamlccl at Mareeba nml pickc(l up fresh scheme; a responsibility that is probably n;;etables-lettuec, cabbage, beetroot and greater than the one they have accepted in c· '.rrot-that >verc flown innnc(tiatelv to the the ease of the Snowy River project in K ew l ''"ops, nnll they >Ye re the best fresh ,:cyetallk' South Wales. I have nothing agninst the c l;~ainell by the troops in if cw Guinea. "\ccord Snowy River scheme >vhntever, but the Com itJ~· to hon. members opposite, a war could monwealth Government are putting all the lt:t)Jpen any clay. Is tlwt not something to money required into that scheme on behalf of be tnkcn into consideration'! Is this proposal the .-arious States. Although this scheme is not a defence project'/ \V c !mow that this just ne< necess:1ry from the point of view of :Hen will grmy tropical fruit equal to any defence, the Commonwealth GoYernment lwve thing in Australia, uml look at the Ynluc contributed not one brass farthing tmnuds that can be obtained from tropical fruits! the cost of any Queonslancl irrigation scheme, A cannery has already been established in the nor have they indicate1l that they have ="orth to can tropical fruits aJHl this Goyern any faith in any schemes that have for ment have helped aml Hrc continuing to help theiT object the do,·elopment of NoTth wherever they can in this respect. There is Queensland. And yet the Lea(ler of the :m almost unlimited opportunity for the grmv Counh-y Party in the Federal Parliament ing ancl canning of tropical fruits in the and he is the CommomYealth TremcureT-is, North, and there is no neerl to clepencl on our~ or claims to be, a Queenslander! He is the area alone. 'l'ropical fruits could he grown mo~t c1i~astrous Queenslandcr we have eYor all o.-er the country and >I'C have a bigger lmcl in politics! potential market for northern tropical fruits than we have in the southern States, because JUr. Hiley: Have you asked them for there is more tropical country and the yields help yet? are hettn in the North than they are in the South. Jir. COLLIXS: Of course we have. ~·.J_· lllll!t'S liaYe IJC< 11 put up to then1 and 11aY1~ Hon. members opposite ask, '' \Vhy do you I ,. n continually turned down. Ttcy have not proceed >vith the little sehcmes an(l pnt tl1en1 into opernt ion right aw~lY}' \ TherC' is ~'·;vd t1o\nl on us continually, jnst as ihL: LeR In _1951, which was a particularly bad year of development and I naturally want to know owmg to drought, the production of leaf per what the scheme is going to do for the Far grower was 7,341 lb. What a difference! North. T!1e Minister who just resumed his Most of that result was brought about by seat mentroned the develo]Jment of North irrigation. In 1932-33 there were 469 growers Queensland. He knows as we1! as I do that and in 1950-51 there were 559, which is we on this side have always pressed for closer not a great number more, and they were settlement in that area; and we do not mean more successful in 1950-51 because they had in 20 years hence. After reading the report, the irrigation from the seven weirs to which I feel sorry for the Commissioner who had to I have referred. attach his name to this report because it con Further on we find that the value per tains so many ifs, mays and b~ts. I have never grower in 1932-33 was £81 15s., which seen such a report in all my life. And the is a very small amount, and the recent Secretary for Agriculture ancl Stock has the amount is £3,395 worth of leaf per grower. audacity to say that they have been to· the That has not all been brought about by irri Federal Government asking for a loan to gation; it is largely brought about by the carry out this scheme. If he 1Yent with a increase in price, but irrigation has played a report such as this I say, ''Good luck to the part. Are not those sufficient reasons why Federal Government for closing down on it,'' the Minister should go on and develop this because, if ever there 1Yns a ,:cheme with irrigation project~ nothing in it, this is one. It is nothing but The number of people using weirs is ger political propaganda. mane to my argument, and on the bottom of I have had the privilege of inspecting the page 6 of the report of the Commissioner Walsh River scheme. It offered many poten we find that in 1930 there were two farmers tialities. I have also had the opportunity of using pumps on the W alsh River or the seeing the proposed Nullinga dam scheme. That Emerald CTeek, but in 1951 there were 242 propo~al was looked upon by our engineers growers using irrigation water to grow their as bemg capable of being carried out, and tobacco leaf, which is an indication that the now we find that a scheme that was then con farmers are taking full advantage of the sidered exce11ent is dropped while another weirs that are available. It shows that as a that we have hacl no opportunity of inspect result of irrigation we are developing one ing and no opportunity of dealing with of the most prosperous farming industries it because there is nothing in it-is put before is possible to have in North Queensland. us. It all boils down to onr being offered I was interested in the submissions made something that the Government know nothing by the hon. member for Clayfield. Usually about today and about which we know he does not overstate his facts, but in this nothing. · case he did. He said it was going to cost It interests me to fincl that the report says three times the amount of money, but that is that the area it is proposed to submerge, is entirely wrong. On page 5 the report shows roughly 10,000 acres, of which 5,200 acres that the cost of the Nullinga dam on the are rich cultivable Janc1. I know the area Walsh River as £27,431,625 compared with ancl I say that the 5.:200 acres are at present £28,353,754 for alternative B, which is nearly under grass and owned by a number of £1,000,000 more. But the department will dairy farmers. Yet it is proposed to sub be in a position to irrigate all the lower merge 10,000 acres. 5,200 acres of which are land down towards Mareeba and Emerald rich cultivable land and the Government pro Creek, where some of these irrigable lands pose to irrigate 11,800 acres of tobacco land. are available. The Minister did say that he 1ms going to The hon. member for Clayfield said also have 16,500 acres ?rmYing such things as that it was going to cost £20 a head for the cotton and peanuts and vegetables, hut that scheme, but I point out that the taxpayers is an camouflage. Wl>at he actually proposes o.f Australia today pay annually £84 a head to do is to spend £20,000,000 and submerge in taxation; so £20 is a mere bagatelle in 10,000 acres in order to inigate 11,800 acres. comparison with the value of the water. The vegetables mean nothing as I have approached the Minister many times to give Mr. H. B. Taylor: I said the cost of greater consideration to closer settlement on the project was enormous. the coast areas. On the con ,t no irrigation )[r. COLLINS: The hon ..member did scheme is needed for vegetables. There they mention that it was an enormous cost. Has have the best rainfall in the State and closer any irrigation project ever moved under its settlement could tn ke place without all this own steam, or were the growers or producers expenditure. Actually it is proposed to spend ever asked to find the whole of the money £20,000,000 on submerging 10.000 acres to required for any irrigation scheme~ Simi provide water to irrigate 11,800 acres. If l~rly, the railways have never been asked to that is not purely a political move, it must pay their way because they are a means of be through absolute Ptupidity that the Govern national development. The same applies to ment put up such a proposal. As a man who irrigation. knows North QueenPhnd, I know we can get closer settlement witlwnt going in for glori I heartily congratulate the Minister on his fied schemes that will tn kc 50 years to develop. foresight in bringing down the measure. If the Minister bro '?ht forward something Mr. WATSON (Mulgrave) (3.1 p.m. l: that we could undcrshncl, something that was It is only natma 1 that I should be interested not half-baked like this is, I should be quite in this scheme. First, I am a North Queens happy to support it if it meant the develop lander; secondly, I have had some experience ment of the north. M a.reeba-Dirnbula.h [1 APRIL.] Irrigation P,oject. 2097 lUr. CHALK (Lockyer) (3.7 p.m.): I and Queensland generally. I am prepared do not intend to traverse the nuwy points to state that the first scheme, which was the ntisc·tl :dread"· except to ~ay that I agree :0:" ullinga scheme, had a certain amount of 11·irh tlw Yie\l·s expressed hy the Leader of merit, and l believe what \Yas stated hy the 1 he Opposition and the hon. member for hon. member for Coorparoo and others who ( 'omparoo. inspected that area. I know it reasonably I chmul like to compliment tile ],on. mem \Yell. I think a certain amount of \York was l>n for Cook in p:nticuiar 011 his :t]ljll'O:tch caniec1 out there and the investigation g:we to this matter. !-le pointed out quite eon a" indication that it woulcl he a reasoua bly :;neeessful scheme. Here this afternoon we t·lusil-ch· to the Committc·e thnt the ~cheme ha\·c had plaeccl before ns, almost from the \YC' are ·discussing has not rcceiYcd the serious consideration that the proposed expe(liturc of l~lue, a ne1v srhen1e covering \vhat \Ye kno\V £20,000,000 \Yarrants. He also read the Com :1, the 'finaToo :Falls dam on the Barron H.iYer. \Ve s11onld certainly consiclcr the new missioner's remarks a bout fonnilations. 1\ Her :tl1, it is on the foundations Uwt this \i·hole sd1eme more sl'riously before \Ye alloc:ate the cdll'llle must l>e l>uilt. Yl't tl1e Go,·crmnent Htouey asked of us. 1wve not gone yery deepi:· into thnt point at The real reason why I speak to this pl·oposal all. is tlwt I am concerned D hont the economic c;itle of the whole project. \Ve hanc heard J\Ir. E1·ans: They have made inspcc t llis Govcrmnent almost daih"-snreh· \YCeklY tiou~. -speak of other large schcn!es for ,;·hat the)' 1Ir. CHALK: As the hon. member for icnn the tleYL'10lllncnt of (~~ucelts1.::ntl. \Ye J\linmi :-aid, they han• e:tnic;d out surface haYe had the Burilekin scheme ancl then the inspec·tions only. }-..n.,·onc• wi10 lnts hful anc·· 'fully hy(ho-elrctrie sehcme, the ::Ill. Spec tlting to do with engineering lmows Clllly too ;,chemc, alHl then the electrification of the well that a sul'face inspedion alum; cannot sulnuh:m railwnys, foliowe1l l>y a ne1Y bridge :1 project; it must be ]ll"UY.d eon· to he !milt oyer the Br:slwne RiwL Ail that suitable foundations fc,r the i hose things ha Ye been n1entioncl1 l'L'\. I_'Etly, sdJCJllC ;tiT an1ilable at the proJlOSCll in tinll'S -.,yhen monc~~ is cxt~·t;niel:~ an1l -\Yll~lt 'tnt-\r!u:n and Tic,• '!''"'' :1t the earliest possible opportunity. One that when the finances were available the must admit that there has been little progress Mount Spec scheme be carried out, and the in North Queensland over the past 50 years. motion was carried unanimously. In spite In fact, I think there are fewer people there of that the Council dicl nothing. '.rhe today than there were 50 years ago. What a Government would have been prepared to commentary on hon. members opposite who subsidise the scheme. They were not ~ny that that state of affairs should continue! responsible for its delay up to' that time. 'l'hey do not want to see progress by the Increased primary production is associated development of irrigation. with hydro-electricity, water conservation, The progress at Mareeba during the past and flood control. The Burdekin Valley 10 years has been amazing and it has been scheme is similar to schemes that have been IJI·ought about by the irrigation of tobacco carried out in other countries. plantations. It was further developed by a part of the scheme we have under considera The CHAIRiliAN: Order! I hardly tion just now. North Queensland is entitled to think the Burdekin scheme comes under this be developed. The northern parts of the State BilL h~1ve been neglected too long and it is abso nir. KEYATTA: I just wished to reply lutely necessary that we continue with a to remarks of the Opposition. project that will give something to North (fnecnsland that is so much needed. Not only have the Government considered big schemes but they have also carried out The proposal for the conservation of the small schemes. The building of weirs in Mal'Leba-Dimlmlah area is absolutely llececsary for the "·ell-being of the nortltem the Logan Valley has increased production tcnfolr!. The constant water supply has parts of Queensland. VVe have seen the en a bled the farmer there to grow three crops development that has taken place in the Ayr in one year. district as a result of irrigation, and the same will apply in great measure to the That scheme proved its value during the :\Iareeba district. The Opposition criticism recent drought. Because of it many com is devoid of commonsense and it is onlv modities that would have been in short !e1·clJed at the proposal for propagand~l supply in a normal drought period were ]J m·p JSes. available to us. Hon. members do not seem to appreciate that a hydro-electric scheme The Government should Le coml'limentetl serves two pnrposrs. Not only does it con r:ttller than criticised in this matter. \Ve serw >vatcr for the generation of electric hear members of the Opposition saying pmver, but that water is also availaLle as a ''\\"hat have the Government clone for North source of water for inigating the land ant1 i2uct nsland?'' This Government ·will do promoting greater primary production. ewrything that is possible for X orth Giu~enslancl; and it is the bounden duty of Queensland has made great strides uncler ti1e CommomYealth Government to help the this Government's irrigation poliey. It m1s tita tc Govemmcnt to develop the ]'; orth, a sparsely populated State with limited "llith is so n'cce;sary for the defence not onlv resources, it has received little or no IH'lp of this State blit also of the rest of from the Connnom1·ealth Goverument-'···ho "\ Hs~ralia. should help, Lecausc these are all national projects-yet, h;r this Government's polic~', Jtfr. KEYATTA (Townsville) (3.29 p.m.): primary production has been boosted by the I support the remarks of the hon. member llevclopment of irrigation from the Dnmarcsq "·ho just resumed his seat and the hon. mem River in the South to the Far North of the lwr for Tablelands on this important measure. State. I <1o not pa:y much attention to the critir-ism ,,f the Opposition because I regard it as so Hon. members criticise the \Valsh Rin•r much pressure politics. Vie must look nt seheme, but they clo not appreciate the value the:-e matters calmly and die'pn·sionatel;·, and of tobacco production. They do not seem to no-one who does that can deny that the realise that not only do wo improve the scheme shows foresight an'l imagilwtion and State's economy by producing the tobacco, its implementation will mean mu eh for the but >Ye nlso benefit the Commonwealth in that Jn·u .. i.L lUr. KEYATTA: I am in favour of any ·would anyone think that the Queensland scheme that is practicable. The hon. mem Government or the Minister would bring a ber, whether he is joking or serious about this, scheme into this Committee that had not l.ieen should remember that Dr. Bradfield was thoroughly investigatecl ~ Look at the very selected by the New South Wales Govern nature of the report before the Committee. ment to design the Sydney Harbour Bridge, vVonlrl such a report be compiled overnight] that he designed also the Story Bridge and the No, it has taken many years to compile. Grey Street Bridge. I respect the opinion No-one can say that irrigation is not e;.;sential of a man of his high qualifications. His to North Queensland and, theTefore, instead scheme might be practicable, but it is so of criticising the Government for umlertak gigantic that the resources of this State arc ing irrigation schemes, the Opposition shoulc1 not big enough to permit of our undertaking be right behind them. It has been saic1 on it. ·when the Federal Government were askerl numeTous occasion that the Oprosition 11·ere to lend their support they shelvecl the pro ''knockers'' an cl this is an instance of their posal, but the time will come when we shall ''knocking.'' pay honour to the late Dr. Bracliielcl 's The irrigation projects this Gm·ernment memory for the schemes he proponnclecl. I haYe introduced have proved to l>e of have every respect for him. He was a gre:1t tremenflous vnlue aml impOTtauee. I am Australian alHl we should be proud of the flirecting my remarks to the Opposition this fact that he was also a worthy Queensl:mdcr. afternoon because it is from them that 11"0 have I am sure lwn. members opposite have read the strongest condemnation of matters sncl1 the report he prepared on the scheme. To as this. If Queensland is to progrc;.;s the date we haYe not founcl any authority to c1is Government cannot sit idly by and 1rait allfl crcdit him. ·which member of the O]lposi wait. That is what the Opposition arc asking tion 11'110 has llecn critirising that scheme can them to do-wait n little loHger. Perhnps say that the late Dr. BnHlfielfl was wrong? they want us to wait until the:; are the Ko-one c:m say that. I should not be game GoYernment, but if Queenslmul has to IYait to challenge a man so highly qualified b3· until the Opposition become the GoYermuent years of experience; he has given something we shall have no iniga tion schemes in to posterity. I am not one who would ridi Queensland. cule him; indeed, I wonlcl not Ticlicule nt;l· Over the years the Queensland La I JOur bittcrest enemy. The late Dr. Braclfielcl pron,,] himself a loya 1 Qucenslancler nml a Party has been responsible for the construc trne Australian and that scheme will be a tion of many irrigation pro;jeets in Qul'ens land, and this one is in keeping IYith our monntHent to his name. Not only have 1H' had the Story Bridge and the Syclne_v H:tr progrer sive policy, just another scheme' that bour Bridge emerging fl·om his brilli:wt will b, brought into beillg in an effort to develor the part of Queenshwd that is l1rnin, lmt we haYe heard of this great srhrme for North Queensland, one that \Yould de\iwr urgently in need of cleYelopmeut. 11:atcr to the dry heart of Australia. The !ton. member for :\Iourilvan sairl ;: few moments ago that there are fe1wr ]'toplco in The Minister has had the coura.ge to f''i n' effect to the scheme before us, which 11·i1l Xorth Queensland toclay than tlJcr,· """'"" mean so much to the north of this State mu1 many years ago. ·whilst I cannot youch for that statement, it must be accepterl tlwt is within the econvmy of the State to implement progressively. It is a practical North Queensland has not developed to uearl:v the same extent as South Queensland. There scheme and I compliment the 11inistor on his must be reasons for that. Consequently, if effort in presenting it and hope that in the by the introduction of an irrigation se hemp i 11 years that lie ahead our friends will say, N.orth Queensland the Government can la>· ''I feel guilty that I criticised that scheme, down plans for the future development aH We have seen over the years m North scheme. No irrigation scheme, particularly Queensland a decline in population and a one with the potentialities of this scheme, decline in industry. The whole of North can be introduced overnight; it takes years Queensland is more or less at a standstill. of work to bring into operation. Therefore, Mr. Sparkes: What is the reason for if we do not start now, when can >Ye expect thaU an increase in the production of tobacco and other agricultural crops~ The Opposition :Mr. GRAHAlU: Because of the lack of know very well that the Walsh irrigation an incentive for people to go to N ortli scheme has been under construction for some queensland. years and that it will eventually reach the stage where water can be taken from it. If You have been there for :Mr. Sparkes: we have to wait for 15 years, as the hon. 30 years. W~y do you not give them some member for Mulgrave ~as suggested, we may incentive~ not then have a North Queensland. vVe must :Mr. GRAHA:M: One would expect a give the people some incentive to return to ridiculous interjection like that from the hon. the North. member for Aubigny! He is intereste losses through a lack of water and grass. the wholehearted support of the Common Let us assume that cattle are c1ying in tens wealth, and that he '"ould leave no stone of thousands; taking the vnlue of a bullock nnturned until these various schemes were today, it takes little time to cnlculate stock put into operation. In contrast >Yith his losses in millions of pounrls. \Voulcl it not attitude we have members of the Oppo"ition l1c a ]Jig achantagc and wonlcl it not help referring to such schemes as dreams. Only to avoid these losses if the rivers in the Gulf recently Senator 0 'Sullivan and one of his conntry and in the Peninsula in general, the colleagues flew round the Callide, Blair Athol Georgina, the Gregory, Leichhardt, Cloncurry, an cl Mt. I sa arens and thev made statements X orman and M itch Ell were "·eired in some as to ,,-hat they would do to implement these way. I have hennl eulogistic yeferences in schemes. A short time after their return to this Chamber to the• Loc·kycr V a llcv scheme. Canberra all these schemes were restricted by How man7 dniry henls iiavc l1ecn" sanld in the Commonwealth. Huge undertakings Ronthnn qucensland b~· stock feed grmvn such as the building of aerodromes and Com in the Lockyer Vnlley by means of irrigation. monwealth houses were restricted because they sairl there was no money available to do ?\fr. Ewan: Do you agree with Dr. Brad fiC'ld 's scheme? this work in the northern and north-,wstern parts of the State. )Ir. SJHTH: I do. The only point on The conservation of ,,-ater and the bring >~·h1ch I ctiffer is that I clo not agree that the ing about of closer settlement in the Gulf 'rater shonlc1 be brought all the wav from ant1 Northern Territory is just as important th<' e<'fl~t TiYers wheu "'e hn,·~::. fl gren't nlrt1l\' n s the Sno\\·v River scheme. I criticised the inland riFrs that conld be locke 3Ir. S1IITH: If it is a Smith scheme. it Tlle TElUPORARY CH A HULL'\ I ..\1 r. is n rlnmn goocl scheme, for both the Sfn:e Clark) : Order! I ask the hon. member to n~J<1 the Commonwealth. I reacl in the Press l'eep to the matter before the Committee. a ~~w days ago that they were eulogising BntJsh members for sa~·ing something in the Jlir. SJIITH: It is a question of finanee House of Commons that I mentioned two or to de,-clop these scheme,. The Commonwealth three years ago on the floor of this Chamber. nre collecting all the taxation from the people Members of the House of Commons hnye of this State but they return very little. The recently suggestecl that tbe British Gowm time is opportune to lead a revolt against the ment should lwlp migrants from Great Commonwealth GoYcmment; and I should Britain to A~stmlia financially for the pur be one of the first to help. I can see evidence pose of carrymg out water conservation ancl of their neglect in the N 01·th-West. I had bringing a bout closer settlement. I m:gnerl to write a letter to a Senator the other day th~t the. British Government should help to in order to bring under their notice the hnng nugrants here and settle them in the neglect of the east-west road running from Gulf and Peninsula area and other areas that Mt. Isa to Tennant Creek. That is a. will embrace the present scheme. £ J ,500,000 job, and they have taken away the maintenance men. I can see the Com This scheme is something that the people monwealth Government tnking all their monc~· of the Commonwealth should be very proud away from .North Queensland and the of and the Opposition should do everything .N orthem Territory, and I visualise that in to help the Government to carry it out. I a very short time that area will be as back hope it will not be long before we shall see 1 ward· as it was when the Commonwealth 1ah Pc1 in this Parliament a report dealing bought it from the South Australian Govem with the eonservation of water in the Gulf ment in 1910 or 1911. area to which I have referred. I am really astounded at the Opposition's I am pleased at the introduction of this criticism of this scheme. They say that the scheme and I sincerely hope it will not be amount is too much. I point out that it is long before similar projects are introduced not just one scheme. The report denls with for the deYelopment of the North-West of a series of sehemes in those arens in the Queenslaml and the Northern Territory. .North and the Gulf eounb·y. How can we Again I sincerely congratulate the Minister cany out these schemes with the present upon this step he is taking. 'et-up in the Commonwealth Govennnent ~ }Ir. )IL'LLER (Fassifern) (4.5 run.): Mr. Ewan: Why bring them in? After listening to four speeches this after noon, those delivered by the hon. membDr for JUr. S3HTH: We must bring them in. Mourilyan, the hon. member for To>vnsville, ft is not long ago that Mr. Casey flew over the hon. member for JI.Iackay, and the hon. that cm,ntry and said that we must do every member for Carpentaria, I have come to the thin,g to open up that area. He told the conclusion that the Government are not at all pec.plc Hp thPre that the matter >Yould have sincere about currying out this proposa~. Tho kl areeba-Dimbulah [1 APmL.] hrigation Proje·, t. 2103 <1e1Jat,~ i" bTonght nhout purely for the A lot of extravagant talk has been engagecl puTpose of launching an attack on the in. A report appeared in the Press recently, :C,Ienzies-Fad den Government_ authorised by the Secretary for Public Lcmds and Irrigation, concerning the Lockyer The hon. member for Mackay endeavoured Valley irrigation scheme. What was said to misrepresent the statements made by the was highly exaggerated because very little hon. member for Mulgrave, who put his has been clone hy the department in the finger right on the important part of the Lockyer Valley. whole proposal, the economics of the project. He did not say at any time that he mts lUr. Jesson interjected. opposed to the conservation of 'vater in North Queenslam1. )fr. }fULLER: The hon. member does not know anytl1ing better; let him go a ncl 1i:r. Burrows: Of course he did. sec the [ Government are not going to help North Mr. MULLER: The hon. member talks Queensland by spending £60,000,000 on the a lot of tripe. He did not realise how silly Burdekin, £20,000,000 on Dimbulah and he made himself appear in the eyes of a millions of pounds elsewhere, not knowing practical man when he was speaking about whether the schemes will pay or give a return the Walsh River. He disclosed his ignorance for the investment. That is all the Opposi on that subject. It is possible to irrigate tion are asking the Government to do. Are much more economically than by these large, the schemes economically sound~ costly schemes. The Minister spoke about the expenditure Mr. Smith: Get up into the North! of £20,000,000 to grow tobacco. Why, heavens above, I should like to know how Mr. MULLER: The hon. _member has much the tobacco will cost. It will probably not the intelligence to understand me. We ,cost more than the Peak Downs sorghum did. had a scheme on the border, we had the The hon. member for Townsville spoke about Dawson Valley scheme-- holding water in North Queensland and lllr. Smith interjected. diverting it to the West and mentioned the scheme propounded by the late Dr. Brad The TEMPORARY CHAlRlUAN (Mr. :field. I am sure that we want further Cl ark) : Order! I ask the hon. member for investigation on that proposal because when Carpentaria. to allow the hon. member for he envisaged the scheme no survey had been Fassifern to continue his speech without made. I have the greatest respect for the interruption. I also ask the hon. member for late doctor; he rendered Australia a great }'assifern to keep closer to the Mareeba ~ervice. He was a highly qualified man but Dimbulah project. he imagined that you could collect the water from northern streams and transfer it to the lUr. lliULLER: I am trying to, Mr. West at a cost of £30,000,000. The Minister Clark, but it is very hard when half-a-dozen will know that what I am about to say is mcmlJers are continually chirping at me. true. Two years ago the chief engineer When interjections arc ilung at me from of the department estimated that it would every direction, I hnYC to make some reply. cost £500,000,000 to do what was envisaged by the late Dr. Brac1fielc1. From that figure The proposal is to spend approximately you 1vould not get sufficient return to pay ''20 000 000 on this seheme. All honour to interest on the money, let alone redemption. 'he' people of Queensland if it is to be of som0 1\"e should not close our eves to the fact that help in developing North Queensland. How· in the schemes in the "South evaporation ever, \Ye have had numerous schemes accounts for 80 per cent. of the water that cnYisaged-- is stored. vVe should not rush in with these l\Ir. Burrows: If you were going to schemes without regard to their economics build one, 1vhosc opinion would you sce"K I ·because if we do we are going to do Queens land a great disservice. :rill'. J'IIULLER: If the hon. member woulcl onlv keep quiet, I was .Just about to It is ea~.'· to get up and sac·,'' \Vhat are the JtJal-cc tl1at· point. He asJ,ed me. whose opin'wn C'ommom·• ealth Gon~rnment going to do about I shou!Ll seek, and I am refernng now to o'"r it?'' I congratulate the Commonwealth past experience'. All these schemes lmve (;overnment on hesitating in schemes of this been put forward, but none has been com kind till they aTe sure that they have been pleted. Would it not be very much 1Jettc1· thoroughly examined and that they are quite to get on with some of those other schemes sound. There is a limit to what we can pay for whiell i\"8 have had estimntes and on :'or auyii1ing. \Ye can pay too mueh for a \~·hich a start has been made? (Government l'''ir of boots. \Ve can pay too much-- intc1·jedions.) The Government started on the l'fir. Smith: Do you think sugar is too ~\fo Stock mnde such a bitter attack on the llir. Foley: What do you suggest is Yedeml Government I decided that I would lacking~ participate in it. :i}Ir. EV AXS: The report is incomplete. Tlle TE~IPO RARY CHAIRJIA~: Order! Other sun·eys ha,., to be made. So far there I ask the hon. member to keep away from a has been only a snrface inspection. Lliscussion on the Federal Government rtnd to deal with the Mareeba-Dimbulah scheme. Mr. Foley: What is lacking? In deference to l\Ir. EVAXS: That is what is lacking. )Ir. EVANS: your You cannot proceed only on a surface ruling, J\1r. Clark, I will keep away from a rliscussion on the :E'ederal Government, but I inspcdion. You must have a complete report Tose mainly to reply to the Minister, who nnd Parliam<'nt must lwvc the >vhole story, refcnc1l to finance and the Federal GoYern YTon c1nnot sn1nuit proper C'Vi(1encc about tl~o foundations without proper investigations and mcnt. I desire to deal >Yith the matter now in reply to the :Minister. drilling to test foundations. Il on. llH'tlllJI'rs opposite sairl that we are l\Ir. 1Yootl: Do you say that the mili tar:· maps on which the ic1fonnat means go on with them. I told the Minister 'fhe highly qualified officers of that depart that this report has never been submitted ment have checked surveys and the many to the Federal Government. technical details necessary to arrive at the soundness of a scheme, and they have taken A Government ~!ember: How do you know~ years to do it. lUr. Evans: They admit in the report Mr. EVANS: I tell the hon. member it that they have not checked it. has not. I have avenues of finding out. I am not referring to the old scheme, but this new JUr. KEYA'l"L'A: The Commonwealth seheme. If the hon. gentleman diu submit Government did not check the Burde.kin this new scheme they woulu not accept it s<•heme, but the State Government have gone until these details that I have outlined were ahead with it. In not one of their many e?n_Ipleted. You. cannot ask any body to sub irrigation schemes have the Government bceii sidise an expenditure on the basis of a report proved to be wrong. that is full of ifs and buts. Reference was made to the Peak Downs I listened to the hon. memher for ~Iackav project, which was undertaken on the advice a:,d I wns astonished that he <1i r "'ir. !i:EYATTA (Townsvillel (4.32 p.m.): balance with America and the Chiiley GoYern 1 contend that this scheme i~ a lmsiness one mcnt realised that by encouraging tobacco th:1t is basccl on facts supplied by technical produetion we could save dollars to the t•xpert~ .and many of the statements made by Common\Yealth. Opposrtwn members arc n reflection on the Then we must Temem ber the pastoral experts employed by the department. development that will develop as an adjunct M areeba-Dimbulah [l MRIL.] I r·rigation Project. 2107 to the scheme. That too will be of great schemes costing a comparatively small value. We have heard much about the neglect amount, to avoid all those tragic things that of the North, yet when the Minister has the occur throughout the whole of the State dur courage and foresight to introduce a scheme ing dry periods. The hon. member for Car that will develop what is now a sparsely pentaria said it should be possible for us to populated area by providing water to enable conserve certain run-off waters within the the land to be farmed effectively, and to Carpentaria area. I agree that it may be gi,·e the farmers some security, hon. members possible, bnt if it is the objective of the opposite criticise and condemn him. Commonwealth of Australia-and we read in The Tableland produces some of the finest the Press every day that it should be so ~-egetables to be had in Australia. There is that we should become a food bowl of pro hardly a State in the Commonwealth that ducers capable of supplying those who are can produce as good vegetables as can be pro in want throughout the world, it is not within duced on the Tableland, or a greater variety. the ambit of State finances to make possible That is another object of this scheme and I that pipe dream to which we look forward so am surprised and sorry to think that the much today. I am not making this a poli Opposition have not read in detail of the tical issue, because the matter is so urgent possibilities of this scheme. And, what is that it is beyond politics. However, it is in more, in that area there is a mineral the interests of the whole of the nation that potential. there should be co-operation between the State and Federal Governments. Such co-operation (Time expired.) would make the food bowl of Queensland a ]Jr. DA VIS (Barcoo) ( 4.40 p.m.): I fact. That is beyond the shadow of a doubt. compliment the Minister and his depart I believe that the Secretary for Lands and mental officers who have made the presenta Irrigation is doing everything withi_n the tion of this splendid report possible. Unfor limits of his limited financial allocatron to tunately, many hon. members of this Com provide within this State such reserves of mittee are voluble on matters of which they water as are necessary to make Queensland a have no conception at all. The tenor of the great food-producing State. debate this afternoon appeared to be con I have no need to mention to members on centrated upon water conservation in the either side of the Committee the trials and northern parts of Queensland, but I would ask tribulations of the man on the land. But hon. members who have spoken and those who when the man on the land is prepared-and have listened to make a general survey of has been for some time-to make possible what the Minister and his department have the security of his own property, he is denied clone in the interests of the State as a whole. that right because more than half of t~e That hon. gentleman has not concentrated the credit within the Commonwealth of Austraha whole of his efforts in the north of Queens is being expended in the expectation of war. land; he has taken a wide view and so have Whether we are Opposition or Government, the officers of his department. The conserva let these things sink into the minds of all of tion of water in the North is essential but us. In the case of the recent war, we began the department has taken steps for the con our preparations only about 12 months before servation of water in other parts of the State it actually began. W,e managed to. muddle as far as is po~sible, in order to bring about through all right, but no sooner was It ended the production that is desirable. One would than we began preparing for the next war. think, from the general tone of the debate The production . of the Col!lmonwealth ?f today, that what was of paramount import Australia today, mstead of bemg expended m ance was the conservation of water in the the development of Australia, is being Marceba-Dimbnlah area and that that was expended in the _de~tr~c~ion of Austra!ia. e,·erything that mattered to the State. The \\'hy are we, as paid mdiVIduals representmg Minister no doubt will tell the Committee the ordinary people, prepared to accept such what his intentions are in regard to the con a position~ servation of water in other parts of the The question is asked: why is the conserva State and I am not going to take that pre tion of water essential for the development rogatiYe from him. I should say that it is of this State~ Let me answer the question essential that we do everything possible to free from any thought of politics. We know conserye water for production and for safety that it is wrong to divert money that can purposes, especially in areas that suffer from be spent in this direction, not only for pro droughts. Unfortunately we do experience duction and for the defence of the nation, severe droughts from time to time in the into channels over which we have no control western parts of Queensland and possibly it and from which there is no return to the would be more to the advantage of this State nation. Why is it that I, as a member of to protect the wealth of the West than to Parliament, should be compelled to rise here undertake a scheme for the production of and make the statements that I do today as tons of tobacco in the Mareeba-Dimbulah a representative of the people~ Why should area. \V e know what can happen in the we be compelled to accept such a form of southern part of the State, where there are dictation as exists in the Commonwealth of none of these grandiose schemes we are at Australia today, knowing full well that our the present time considering in respect of very lives depend upon the development of the North. There are facilities that the Commonwealth and upon the things that would make it possible for this Government, are before the Chamber right now~ The in their general attempt to harness water conservation of our water resources will make in the interests of the State, not in grandiose for greater population on the land and it schemes costing millions of pounds, but in will give those already on the land a measure 1952-3w 2108 M areeba-Dimbulah {ASSEMBLY.] IrriGation Profect. of security. I know, and no-one knows better short supply in the South in order to under than many hon. members on this side mine the Mareeba Tobacco Growers' Associa and on the other side, that insecurity pas been tion and the co-operative cpncern that is the devil overruling the angels in the pas doing such a good job despite the opposition toral industry and that never before have by the trusts and combines. Members opportunities presented themselves to Aus opposite, true to form, are prepared to sup tralia to protect the man on the land as there port the trusts and monopolies rather than a are today. Prices for his products were struggling co-operative concern that is try undreamed of in the history of the man on ing to establish an industry in which there the land but at the moment he is left almost is no middleman and from which all the like a Punch and J udy Show that has been profits go hack to the producer. (Opposition deserted by the public; he is left to carry interjections). I know it does not appeal to his burden alone and only because the pro members opposite I know the British Aus duct of his labour, the return to him that he tralian Tobacco Company would be a sub never before anticipated getting has been stantial subscriber to the funds of the party swept away. And I ask you: for what W t-o which they belong. That is behind their Answer me that question. Why has his opposition to this scheme. security been taken away¥ Why has his position not been safeguarded W If you can Getting back to the practicability of the answer me that question reasonably and scheme, we heard the views of many self logically, I shall accept it but as no reason styled engineers. >.Ve heard the hon. member able and logical answer can be given or has for Lockyer, the hon. member for Clayfiel(l, been given to the question why he has been and at least six other hon. members opposite deprived of his natural and logical rights I get up and pose as engineers. I know there can only assume that the reply that is given are no more highly qualified political is suppositious. It is logical to say that war, engineers in Australia than hon. members ;vho which they say is inevitable, is suppositious sit in opposition; but when we want sound but the development of Australia is essential advice on such matters as these ~we do not and, what is more is completely imperative seek the advice of the undermining engineers in the interests of the nation, but it is being opposite who are highly qualified in the art of obliterated by supposition. undermining their political opponents, but we Mr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) ( 4.55 seek the advice of hydraulic engineers. The p.m.): I approach this subject from three recommendations in this report are signed by angles, its defence value, its developmental one of the most highly qualified hydraulie value, and its practicability. engineers in Australia. I challenge the hon. member for Clayfield to get up and deny Nobody would deny that the unpopulated that. or partially populated Korth would be a completely undefended part of the State. I lUr. H. B. Taylor: I do not deny it. know there are certain lines of politieal He is one of the best hydraulic engineers in thought in Australia-and members opposite Australia. subscribe to them-who have the outlook that the Brisbane Line must be adhered to in the JUr. BURROWS: Who is better able to event of hostilities. I think the majority of guide the Government than a man with such Australians are determined to hold Aus high qualifications and such a long period of tralia, and do everything they possibly can practical experience behind him~ towards that end. Any scheme that has for its purpose the bringing of population to Yet we have the hon. member for Mirani North Queensland must have the support of attacking the integrity of this man! Hon. every intelligent person in this country and members opposite suggest that these engineerE every genuine Queenslander in particular. are deliberately leading us astray. I remino them that the prestige and ethics of the pro· Members opposite have said that they want fession are of such a high standard that thE to see the profit and loss account, they want last thing these men would think of doing to see full details of all that will happen. I would be to sign a report that was incorrect refer them to a book in the library called They know that to do so would be to commit "Water into Gold" which describes the professional suicide. Mr. Nimmo is a mar difficulties and hardships and struggles of whose past record has earned the greatest the people in the Murray irrigation areas in admiration and approbation of every clean the early stages. I do not contend that these minded person in the State and possibly ir schemes will immediately establish pro Australia. What would he gain by prostitut gressive industry, and that the element of ing his position~ Why should he sign 1 risk will not persist. Any irrigation scheme report to deliberately lead the Governmerr only provides what nature denies us-a astray? That is what hon. members opposit( regular and plentiful supply of water. There are trying to suggest he is doing, but insteac are other features of the economics of a of saying it straightout they engage i1 scheme that are man-made, artificial, mis nasty innuendo and inference. Nobody coul( chievous, and very often treacherous. be nastier, while at the same time seeminl nicer, in his attack on the engineer and th' I believe that behind the opposition to this department than the hon. member for Clay scheme we can see the hand of the British field has been. Again, I would not advis Australian Tobacco Company and other big the Government to spend 2s. on a schem tobacco firms-firms that have sent north a recommended by the hon. member for Lockye plentiful supply of tobacco when it was in but I certainly would be prepared to stak Mareeba-Dz:mb«lah [1 APRIL.] b-rigation .ProJect. 211)9 my political reputation on the recommenda '' (c) A general plan, prepared on a tion of a man of such high standing and with scale approved by the l'v1inister, showing such high qualifications as Mr. Nimmo. the nnture and extent of the proposed works;'' It is distressing to see the presumption, hide and impertinence of hon. members If hon. members refer to the particulars opposite who attempt to contradict this accompa11ying this report they will find that authoritv. It is a reflection on the Chamber Figure 3 sets out all the information required. when ,,-e" have hon. members opposite refusing It continues- to accept the highest and best authority in " (d) An estimate of the total coRt of the State. In all the inquiries I have made the iYorks and of the annual ch:uges I ha 1·e not met one man who is prepared to necessary for the maintenance ~mc1 manage deny the high standing and qualifications of ment of the undertaJ,ing; '' Mr. Nimmo. I know other officers of the department who are highly respected in the Those particulars have been supplied. engineering profession, yet hon. members '' (e) A statement as to what amount of opposite have the presumption and hide to money it is proposed should be advanced think that they. know more and that the to the Commissioner by way of loan for Gm·emment should be guided by their opinion the undertaking; and discard that offered by those men who hm·e background and prestige. '' (/) An estimate of ihe annual revenue expected to be derived from the proposed Hon. T. A. FOLEY (Belyando-Secre works; such estimate of annual revenue tary for Public Lands and Irrigation) (5.7 to allow of the suspension, for the first p.m.) : I was astounded at the change of three years after settling on the Area, of attitude of some hon. members opposite any payments by the settler other than today. I remember that not so long ago we such rates as the Commissioner in his had in this Chamber a full-dress debate on capacity of a Local Authority may require; the lack of attention to the northern part of the State. I well remember that on that " (g) An estimate of the quantity of occasion hon. members opposite set out all 1mter that is proposed to be made available th: disabilities suffere~ by _the North, all the for uoe for irrigation purposes in the Area, thmgs that were reqmred m the North, and after making allowance for present and all the things that the Government had probable future requirements for all or neglected to do there. Now, when an honest any other purposes; and a statement of move is made by the Government to do some the sources from 11 hich it is proposed to thing of great value to the dm•elopment of obtain it, specifying, \\'here deem2d neces the North, they say the report of the Com sary, the quantity of water proposed to be missioner is incomplete, that this and that taken from each of such sources and the have been left out, that they would support seasons at 1rhich it is to be taken.'' the proposal if they had some definite report Full particulars are al-ailable in the report and plan before them. of 1vhat water will be impounded and what Let me point out to the Committee what mnount will be ayailable for each farm it the Act dealing with these matters asks me is proposed to establish. All this is supplied to do when presenting the Commissioner's in the maps accompanying the report. And report to Parliament. The Act is the Irri then the Act goes on to deal with streams, gation Act of 1922 and it makes provision &c., in the area, existing waterworks, land for the undertakings to be approved of by capable of irrigation, and a full report on Parliament and says- that aspect has been supplied. The Bureau of Investigation of Land and "\Vater Resource~ '' K o irrigation undertaking ~hall be has submitted to the Commissioner of Irri established until the proposed scheme of gation and \Vater Supply a rcconnaisanee the undertaking has been submitted to the survey of the soils in the area. That surVPY LPgislative Assembly for approYal, a11d has is still going on with a view to givinv, ':• been approved by a resolution of the more complete picture, as time will allow. Legislative Assembly. 'fhc Act then deals with iYOrks for joint '' "\Vhen it is pro Dosed to establish an benefit of area and other land, and that is irrigation undertnki;lJ' :Jllf1 to con tituw also provided in the report. an Irrigation Area in relation thereto the Commissioner shall fonvard to the Midister Then the Act says that the report is to a report with respect to the proposed be laid before Parliament and states- scheme. '' Copies of such report, with all accompanying plans, sections, books of '' EYery such report ,]Iall contain or be reference, and other documents relating to accompanied by the followin::; p:uticulnrs, the proposed scheme, shall be prepared by that is to say:- the Commissioner and laid before the (a) A map or plan show;ng th8 Legislative Assembly. Every such report boundaries and the extent of the la11ds shall contain a plan showing the boundaries proposed to be comprised in the Area;'' and extent of other lands which may be acquired for the purposes of this Act and <~hat map is co~tained in the earlier pnrt of t11e report and 1s edged in reel, showing hon. an estimate of the cost of acquiring same.'' members the boundarie.s. It continues- All that information has been supplied. " (b) A description settin.cr forth the :May I also point out that in the earlier scheme and purpose of the proposed works; part of the report we have a summary, as 2110 Mareeba-Dimbulah [ASSEMBLY.] Irrigation Project. provided for in the Act. Mr. Nimmo comes Mr. Nimmo goes on to deal with the financing to his conclusions and his recommendations of this project and signs the report as Com are then given as follows- missioner of Irrigation and Water Supply. " ( 1) The proposal to build a dam at I maintain that a man of the calibre of Nullinga on the Walsh River be deferred W. H. R. Nimmo, who is held in high respect indefinitely since it will not be needed in the engineering world, and who possesses until such time as all available water must the qualifications of Master of Civil Engineer be conserved; ing, Member of the Institution of Civil "(2) Approval be given to the con Engineers, Member of the American Society struction of a dam at Tinaroo Falls on of Civil Engineers, and Member of the the Barron River to have a storage capacity Institution of Engineers, Australia, would not of not less than 320,000 acre-feet. A put his name to a report unless he was definite decision regarding the precise thoroughly satisfied that it was a practical location of the dam and its initial and proposal. ultimate height and cost must await Hon. members have had the opportunity completion of surveys and foundation of reading that preface to the report and exploration; '' the recommendations. The report itself is That is the point that has been worked on laid out in such a way that no great period throughout the debate. Some hon. member of time is required by anyone to get a pic said something, and the rest of the speakers ture of what is envisaged by the Com took the matter up. That is something that missioner and his staff in the carrying out must wait; it is not required by Parliament. of this project. That being so, I feel that I have reported on the project to this Parlia Mr. H. B. Taylor: Why was it necessary to bring forward a motion when it was not ment as I should have. I have done every necessary to bring forward a motion on the thing that the Act says I shall do-and the Commissioner in turn has carried out his Nullinga dam plan~ obligations to Parliament. He has given us ~Ir. FOLEY: It was never presented to all the data, all the figures, all the calcu Parliament. A preliminary report was made lations, all the estimates, and all the maps to me as Minister, and I presented it to necessary to satisfy the ordinary layman that Cabinet and Cabinet agreed to the carrying this scheme is practicable. out of further extensive inquiries. Then we have hon. members, led by the Mr. H. B. Taylor: In the Governor's Leader of the Opposition, questioning whether Speech he said that you had done the work. this proposal will ever be carried out. For the information of hon. members, I point out lUr. FOLEY: It had not reached the that in January la.st, before this report went stage when a definite conclusion had been to the Government Printer, it was presented arrived at. It was only the opinion of Mr. in typed form, with all the maps, by me to Lang at the time, who thought that it would Cabinet. It was debated very extensively by be possible to bring water from the Barron Cabinet, who eventually agreed that there was River over the divide into the Walsh River no other plan to adopt but to follo\v the catchment area, and to build a dam at recommendations of the Commissioner. Nullinga, and supplement the supplv from It has been pointed out to me over and the Barron River. V over again that all these small schemes in ])Ir. H. B. Taylor: In other words, it was various parts of the State, desirable though not a plan determined W they may be, are definitely uneconomic. Although you cannot unload all the capital Mr: FOLEY: No, it was merely a report cost of constructing a dam to carry out a subm1tted to me recommending further large irrigation project on to the settler by way investigation into the whole scheme. That of water charges or rental, such schemes are investigation has been made and the stage more economical than smaller weirs that has been reached where Mr. Nimmo, as t~orn impound only a very small quantity of water missioner of Irrigation and Water Su pplv is at a. very high capital cost. That is the satisfied that this project is practicable V ~nd Commissioner's argument, and this is only can be gone on with, with advantage to the one of the larger projects that are being State. He continues his recommendations as investigated. As the hon. member for Clay follows- field has pointed out, Cabinet has received " (3) Sections of the West Barron Main, only preliminary reports, and I have for the Mareeba Main Channels, and Atherton inf0rmation of hon. members, sent them Creek Lateral be constructed concurrently copies of reports on the Dawson Valley, the with the building of Tinaroo Falls Dam; Nogoa and the Burdekin. The latter investi "(4) A weir on the Walsh River at 167 gations have been carried out by the A.M.T.M. to impound 840 acre-feet of Co-ordinator-General of Public Works. water be constructed immediately; As an example, we have the Nogoa right in "(5) A section of the South Walsh the centre of a large pastoral belt where Channel be constructed concurrently with fodder could be conserved at the pvint where the building of the weir; it is most required during drought periods. " ( 6) The remainder of the project That scheme commands a greater area of including main and reticulation channels land than this one. The water could be and pumping stations be carried out con impounded at a lesser cost but we favour the tinuously until completed and farms North because of the facilities that would be developed concurrently.'' given to the people who could produce Ma1eeba-Dimbulah [1 APRIL.] Irrigation Project. 2111 tobacco, which is urgently needed now worth of wealth at the present time it will because of the import restrictions, and thus increase it to between £5,000,000 and save this country many millions of dollars £6,000,000 annually. and avoid demands on sterling countries for tobacco purchases. It would increase the ltir. Muller: When do you expect the population as well and it is expected that scheme will be in use~ population will increase by 16,000 as a result Mr. :FOLEY; It is pointed out in tlie of the scheme, which is a very favourable report that in the next four or five years contribution towards the greater defence of we may have made such progress with the the northern part of the State. dam at Tinaroo that it will have conserved In view of all these arguments, hon. mem some of the water required for the scheme bers should be satisfied that the project is and at that point it will be applied to what well worth carrying out but it does not eYer area can be watered. Gradually the follow that because Cabinet agrees that it scheme will reach the point where it will be should be done it is purely for propaganda possible to supply water to the whole of the purposes. It so happened that the investi area. gations of the Commissioner were so com Mr. H. B. Taylor: Would it be unfair to pleted at the time that the report was say that that was extraordinary optimism~ presented to me. Mr. FOLEY: Yes. We have a pretty Mr. H. B. Taylor: The Commissioner is good team of men, many of them taken ;·ight still investigating the Nogoa scheme~ out of the Universities, without any expenence Mr. FOLEY: Yes. He is still boring for at all. Up to date, in carrying out similar foundations at the Nogoa gap and he has projects we had to take young men out of the almost completed the Selma weir in the Universities and place them in charge of jobs Nogoa River. A great proportion of the although they had no practical idea of carry water that will be impounded will be used for ing out the work or handling the men. How the. Queensland-British Food COTporation for ever, we had very few failures, and on the production by irrigation. There will be whole they did a very fine job. There were preliminary experimental farms of immense occasions when there was delay in carrying Yalue to the entire district where water can out some of our projects. There was a good be applied effectively to the soil in the area. deal of delay at Whetstone in the south western part of the State. They bave now lUr. Lnckins: Are they still investigating adopted the practice that before they start the D'lws0n scheme~ building the weir of seeing that eye;·y piece lUr. FOLEY: Yes. A preliminary report of material is either on the job or in sight has been presented to Cabinet on the Dawson so that they will not be held up, as they Valley project and I think some hon. mem were with other jobs. bers have had a copy of it. I know that the I can assure the Committee that Cabinet hon. member for Clayficld has a copy of it. is serious on this matter, and I pass on that The report recommended that further investi message to the northern people. As soon as gations should be carried out. 'Nlum the Com approval is received this job will go on. As missioner has completed his investigations to a matter of fact, all the investigations and the point where he is satisfied that the other preliminary work are going on at the scheme is sound his report will be presented present time, and once word is given to carry to me, I will take it to Cabinet, and from on the job the Commissioner and his staff Cabinet it will come to Parliament for sup will go straight ahead with it. port and adoption, as we are doing in the case of this scheme. :Mention was made by the hon. member for Coorparoo of his visit to the Nullinga There is R scheme on the Comet River, too. site. I must say he was fair enough to approve Right in the heart of a pastoral district a of the switch-over. He no doubt realised gorge on Warranilla station can be that a man like Mr. Nimmo would not impounded to conserve a tremendous quantity recommend a switch from one proposal that of water at not a very high cost. was made some time ago to another one unless ltir. Luckins: It will impound the water he had good grounds for doing so. that is now running from the coast. I point out that in Recommendations (2) the 1949 report says-- lUr. FOLEY: Yes. The water will eventually reach the sea because it comes '' That the investigations now in progress from part of the Mackenzie and Nogoa water he extended and expanded to cover all sheds. If we impound that water we can developmental possibilities inherent in the irrigate a large urea of arable land along J\Iareeba-Dimbulah irrigation project.'' the Comet River. I have certain inside information, which sho11·s that what led to the further investigations I can assure hon. members opposite that "·as that before Mr. Nintmo became Com there is no occasion for this Government to missioner he had reported on this area for present these schemes to Parliament for the Co-ordinator-General in connection with propaganda purposes. We are sincere in the harnessing of the Barron for electricity this connection because we realise the value and po\\'er purposes. As a result of the of irrigation. It is estimated that this pro knowledge he obtained of that catrlmJcnt ject will increase production considerably in area and its possibilities, he canied nut this the Mareeba-Dimbulah area. Where it is further im·estigation, which has letl him to producing a few hundred thousand pounds' the conclusion that >Ye can do a much better 2112 Mareeba-Dimb1dah [ASSEl\fBLY.] Irrigation Project. job by starting at Tinaroo Falls on the to organise the farmers adjacent to the weir Barron, and watering the whole of the area to go in for irrigated pastures, ancl I think from there at a much cheaper rate than if they will agree. 'rhey have asked us to buy we adopted the original project. them a grader, and although we have not Another very important point raised was clone that, we have done as much to help the length of time it may take to carry out them as any Government could do. this project. I >vish to emphasise that much At Mungungo on Monal Creek there is time is necessary before an irrigation schema another project. At Mulgeldie we have one can be carried out. First of all, there is on the Three Moon Creek. Then there are all the necessary preliminary work associated the Wilson, Brightview, J or clan, and 0 'Reilly with it before there is even a recommendation. weirs on the L·ockyer Creek. No mention That necessitates the sur.-eying and levelling was made by the hon. member for Lockyer and the correlating of all the information of all that work we have clone in his area. collected by the various men on the job. 'Phen Recently he came to me with a representative a rc>c:ommendation is macle, and then there of the Gatton Shire Council asking for a is the accumulation of the material and the weir. I think that has been investigated engaging of the necessary labour. All that already by Mr. Nimmo who discussed the takes time nnc1 cannot be canied out matter on the spot with the men who are OYernight. interested. Another thing >>e have to consider is that As has been pointed out by one hon. even if you were able to carry out a big member, although much of the water used for project in a few weeks, you would still have irrigation in the Lockyer Valley does ~ot the task of training many of the farmers come directly from the water stored by weus, who will go onto that a.rea and use the land it is accepted by all engineers that the under what is known as wet-farming condi construction of the weirs has lifted the tions. Every man sent up to the Clare irriga water-table in the underground gravels to tion project hacl to put in at least 12 months such an extent that there is now virtually a with a big tobacco-farmer in order to learn permanent supply of water where once it was the business. The result was when these men very unreliable. got there they were familiar with what was necessary to grow tobacco under irrigation }lr. H. B. Taylor: That is why I praise conditions. The same thing applies to other the Barker's Creek weir. crops. A man who has no knowledge of the Mr. FOLEY: That is so, and it is all application of irrigation can go onto an to the advantage of the district. As time irrigation block and use that block for goes on, other weirs will be necessary if we permanent pastures. He must know all about wish to extend operations in that valley. grading and draining of the lancl, all of which costs money and time. If he is dumped On Warrill Creek we have two weirs, one on the block without some training in these at Aratula and the other at Church Bank. things, he will be a complete failure. We also have a weir at St. George on the Baloune River ancl Whetstone weir on Mr. H. B. Taylor: Are you going to ask Macintyre Brook. Then there is the weir on tha.t this be included in the CommoRwealth Barker's Creek in the N anango district. Then \Var Service Lancl Settlement Scheme~ we have another to the north, at Silver Leaf, :i}Ir. FOLEY: Partially because we can on Barambah Creek. Then, of course, there absorb many of the settlers who are listed is the Bonshaw weir on the Dumaresq River. under that scheme. It is part of a big scheme that will move along as s·oon as the surveyors and other The hon. member for Lockyer, the hon. officers of the Commission collate all the member for Darlington, and one other hon. information they have been endeavouring to member saicl that we should have more irriga obtain. It all takes time. One cannot tion projects in the South, where we have the establish a dam at a certain point on a river land ancl the population, and where certain until one has the fullest information to guide irrigation work is being done. I point out him ancl to guide Parliament as to what is that over the years we have attempted to required. distribute our weir construction over as wide an area as possible. We have carried out a Mr. Deck er: Is there anything moving vast programme in the South. At Munclub at Wandoan~ bera, on the Burnett, we have an excellent Mr. FOLEY: Not in the way of irri weir that backs up the water for about gation, but in the supply of water to settlers. 8 miles. Although it is not big enough for a Tenders have been accepted for the first batch community scheme such as the one recom of 11 tanks and provision has been macle for mencled to the Co,nmittec, it does give an the sinking of one or two artesian bores. enormous advantage to the people along the Others get water from the sub-artesian Burnett, in that every year, despite drought, ,..m there is a plentiful supply of ·water for the supply. farms between there ancl Gayndah. I have quoted these facts to show that the South has been well catered for as compared ::lfr. H. B. Taylor: You have only two with the North. This project will naturally 18-inch valves there. be one of the biggest projects carried out. :i}Ir. FOLEY: The fact is that we have At this stage I ask permission to infringe supplied them with water ancl we have another the rules of the House for a moment by 2,000 acre-feet available. We are endeavour pointing out that the Irrigation and Wp.ter ing to induce the Mundubbera Shire Council Supply Commission has been allotted the M areeba-Dimbulah [1 APRIL.] Irrigation Project. 2113 work on the Burdekin weir and is carrying Premier with a covering letter, on 27 Feb out all the work necessary on the diversion ruary, 1952. It was in its typed form at that >veir, which is part of the Burdekin scheme. stage. The Co-ordinator-General of Public Works has in hand all the investigation work neces Mr. Evans: Seeking financial assis sary before starting with the bigger dam. tance~ In the meantime all that is required in con lUr. FOLEY: Yes, suggesting that they nection with these projects at this stage is co-operate with this Government in financing being carried out by the Commissioner of the project. Irrigation and Water Supply and the Co-ordinator-General. lUr. Evans: Have you received a reply? I now wish to deal with the question raised lUr. FOLEY: We have had an acknow by the hon. member for Clayfield, whether ledgment, saying that the report has been the project will be an economic one. He received and that the matter is receiving con knows from his investigations and reading sideration. I hope it will not be a repetition that no irrigation project yet constructed of what has happened previously. In respect could be called an economic scheme. of the Burdekin scheme, for instance, I under stand that the Commonwealth Government Mr. H. B. Taylor: You must accept have demanded all kinds of exact informa >Yater as a public utility. tion that is not available at this stage, nor can it be available for some time. lUr. FOLEY: Yes. The State or some body has to carry part of the capital cost An Opposition !Iember: It would be because it is impossible to pass on the whole very nice to get it. of the capital cost to the farmer in the form of rents or water charges. Mr. FOLEY: That is so. The hon. member for Mirani said that if he was con To give hon. members an idea of this sidering such a proposal as a member of scheme, which will convert the area to greater certain organisations, he would insist on the productivity, I would say that the dam will fullest detail. However, there are some pro hold 320,000 acre-feet of water, a tremendous posals in respect of which it is impossible to volume, and it will supply 165,000 acre-feet of supply every detail if you want to make some water per annum to 38,000 acres of agricul progress towards beginning work on tural land. It is estimated to supply water to them. In regard to this scheme, as has been 1,180 tobacco farmers and 240 farmers of pointed out by t_he Con:missioner, alre~dy other agricultural crops. The produce from experts have shdwd aenal surveys earned the area is estimated to be- out by the Air Force. Those men know Tobacco 11,800,000 lb. their job. The aerial photographs are Potatoes .. 33,000 tons placed together, and with the aid of mag Pumpkins 33,000 tons nifying instruments it is possible to see every Cotton 3,840,000 lb. gully and gorge in the area. All that the Maize 4,800 tons Commissioner has to do now is to check up Cowpeas 48,000 bushels with his surveyors and get the contours of the various parts of the country where the And various other crops will be produced. I big channels w~ll go. How_eve~, the i~formt_t think the hon. member for Clayfield knows tion that has mfiuenced him m makmg his that; other hon. members know that by the report and recommendations is all that is time this project is completed-- required by an engineer, and it is all con Mr. Sparkes: We shall be spouti!J.g up tained in this report. daisies. llir. 1\Iuller: What do you propose to grow besides tobacco~ Mr. FOLEY: I hope to be alive to per form the official opening. The point I 1\Ir. FOLEY: If the hon. member had emphasise is that by the time the job is been present he would have heard me say completed the demand of the Australian that, in addition to tobacco, it is proposed population for foodstuffs will be so intense to produce cotton, which we have proved in that this scheme will prove itself worth the Theodore area can be grown very favour while. One has only to think of the amount ably under irrigation conditions. Another of beef, mutton, dairy products and other crop that could be grown is potatoes. If foodsh1ffs required in this Continent by 1960 suitable land in the area is put under_ potato to make one shudder as to what is going to cultivation, it is estimated that it will pro happen if we do not make a move in this duce at least 33,000 tons a year, which would direction. be a reasonable contribution towards the requirements of this State. Another crop Mr. H. B. Taylor: Has Cabinet decided mentioned is eowpea, which is in great demand to ask the Commonwealth Government to give all over the State. It is expected that large help~ supplies will be produced, to the advantage of Mr. FOLEY: Yes. The hon. member fanners throughout the State. for Mirani raised this question and he was Mr. Muller: I am speaking now of quite emphatic that this report had not been Dimbulah. submitted to the Commonwealth Government. 'rhat is not correct. Copies of the report Mr. FOLEY: I am dealing with the >rere sent to the Prime Minister through the Mareeba-Dimbulah area. 2114 Mareeba-Dimbulah [ASSEMBLY.l Irrigation Proje,·t. There are also tropical fruits. As hon. been able to grow citrus fruits, vegetables, members know, canning factories have been lucerne and other fodder crops-only in a established for the handling of tropical fruits, small way. Naturally the application of and they are doing a very fine job. I can water on a large scale will give bigger results. foresee the extensive growing of tropical I have covered most of the points that have fruits on suitable soils in this area. That been raised and I conclude by emphasisiag will naturally result in increased supplies to that this is not a propaganda proposal at all. the canneries, which will then be able to I want that to be clearly understood. Before increase their output. By that time it is the scheme came to Parliament it >vas care quite probable that we shall have developed fully considered by Cabinet. It has the bless to a greater extent than at present the deep ing of the Commissioner of Irrigation and freezing of fruit and vegetables that are Water Supply and his staff and it is a big being used successfully on a very small scale move towards populating the North and so already. I foresee big developments in that contributing towards the defence of the North respect. Instead of being marketed in the in the future. I have pleasure in moving the K orth, a big proportion of our tropical fruits motion. will be frozen or canned and sent to other parts of Australia. Jlfr. SP ARKES (Aubigny) (5.55 p.m.): I have endeavoured to cover the whole of :Members on the Government side would have the matters raised by hon. members. I may the Committee believe that the Opposition have missed a few points on the financial side, are opposed to irrigation. :Yhich >ras touched upon by Mr. Nimmo. That lUr. Collins: You do not seem to be in rs a matter for the Treasurer of the future. favour of it, anyhow. If we can get the eo-operation of the Com monwealth Goyernment in this and the Bur Jlfr. SPARKES: On the contrary, mem dekin scheme, to be followed by the Dawson bers on this side and most of them on the Valley and Nogoa schemes, we shall make other side would favour irrigation-any a big contribution tow::n-ds supplying the schoolboy would-but members on this side foo_clstu~s that are even now in short supply, want to see that the scheme is economically wlnch wrll be accentuated between 1958 and practicable before they approve of it. Is 1960. there anything wrong with that attitude~ I look upon the Minister as a personal friend, lnr. H_. B. Taylor: That raises the point and I hope he lives long enough to see the a'. to wlnch would have been the better scheme £11,000,000 realised for the pigs. I recall to undertake, the Nogoa, the Dawson or the the Government painting a glowing picture JI.Iareeba-Dim bulah. of 500,000 pigs, and because the Opposition were sceptical they were termed ''knockers.'' 1Ir. FOLK¥: On purely personal grounds I should have preferred the Nogoa Jllr. Foley: Do you admit they had bad scheme. If we are to help the grazing indus luck? (Opposition laughter.) try >ve must have a big project and the Nogoa >vill be a big pro.ject. The Dawson scheme Mr. SPARKE:S: I have been connected will serve a tremendous area but we have with the land since I was able to crawl. almost completed our work there. All the information was correlated back in the early The CHAIRJllAN: Order! I hope the stages of this project and the final report is hon. member will not use the interjection to not far off. open up another question. We are faced with periodic droughts in the lUr. SP ARKES: I have been connected pastoral industry. Emerald is virtually in with the land since I could crawl, and I the centre of the pastoral industry, and know that there are setbacks; but the Min na_turally we must have a bigger project than ister is undoubtedly a super-optimist. What thrs one to deal with the pastoral industry. we are mainly concerned about is not too A bigger project requires a greater amount much irrigation, but the fact that we have of water and with it we could irrigate hardly seen any irrigation. pastures for the growing of lucerne and other :ilfr. Foley: Why are you obstructing the fodder crops in time of drought. Then the measure~ fodder, the lucerne, and the grain would not have to be carried long distances and heavy lUr. SP ARKE S: I am not. I have been transport costs would not be involved. If we here a long time, and if I had a record of had an irrigated area in the centre of a big the Minister's speech on irrigation 10 years pastoral district the east of transporting the ago I could play it to him today and ask fodder would be Yirtually nothing. \Ve should him if that was he speaking 10 years ago or have the fodder on the spot. I can fores@e today. It is merely a repetition of what he also that many men engaged in sheep-raising said 10 vears ago about what they would in the area would form co-operatives and do in the· future. \Ve want to see something grow fodder as part of their ordinary pastoral clone. pursuits. )fr. Collins: Why are you holding it up? ~fr. ]}fuller: You are satisfied that the soil on the N ogoa is satisfactory for the :ilfr. SPARKES: Apparently we have been holding it up for the last 50 years. I purpose~ have been associated with Parliament for ]}fr. FOLEY: Yes. We have proved it well over 20 years, and I yet have to see in the little town of Emerald. Since a water something clone that is worth while. I supposE scheme >vas constructed there the people have during next session we shall have anothe1 Survey Co-o1·dination Bill. [l APRIL.) Survey Co-o1dination Bill. 2ll5 grandiose scheme outlined in connection with consisting of representatives of various some other area. We had Theodore, and we Government departments, to see whether the know what happened to that. Something co-ordination recommended by the original similar to what happened in the North. committee could be put into practice. I think hon. members will admit that this Although a \Var has intervened that committee matter has had fairly full discussion, but I has sat continuously and has operated very did want to make that one point clear successfully and smoothly and brought about because hon. members on the Government a good deal of co-ordination between various side have sought to convey that we are merely Government departments to the advantage of criticising without offering anything con the State. structh·e. We want to help, and the f'act is that we are being helpful. There is nobody I might mention in passing that similar in this Chnmber for \vhom I have more respect legislation to what we are introducing was than the Minister, and when he said he was passed in Victoria in 1940, in Tasmania in going to liYe to see this scheme brought to 1944, and in New South Wales in 1949. Infor fruition I thought that he must be going to mation received from those States is that it got monkey glands and I intended asking is to the advantage of the State generally him about it, because I wanted to be in on and it is considered that we should put such it. (Laughter.) a scheme into operation here. The Surveyor General who knows what co-ordination has so vV hen we speak on these matters \Ye offer far been effected in this State and who dming the opinions of practical men and I remember his attendances at conferences in the south that we criticised a previous scheme in which has made a thorough investigation of the only £2,000,000 was involved. I refer to working of the system in operation in other the Peak Downs scheme. In this case States, is in favom of Queensland adopting £20,000,000 is involved and it is only right a similar method. Consequently the that we should put before the Minister any recommendations made by the various com thing that we think will help him. mittees established to consider this question lUr. Foley: What is £20,000,000 when are now embodied in the legislation before the you are going to-- House. i\Ir. SP ARKES: The Minister asks, ~Ir. NICKLIN (Landsborough-Leader "\Vhat is £20,000,000~" He says we are of the Opposition) (7.23 p.m.): The Bill going to get £11,000,000 worth of tobacco before us is a common-sense one and its pur and 23,000 tons of potatoes. These schemes pose is really defined in its title. The all sound very fine, but nnfortunately they Minister explained that it has taken us some haYe a habit of falling on our heads. ;rears to reach the stage where we shall, on vVe of the Opposition are right behind any the proclamation of this measure be bringing irrigation scheme that is sound economically. about some co-ordination of the various survey Our only complaint is that the schemes the actiYities of the departments of State. Gm·ernment have in mind have not yet got The Minister said that this Bill had its further than the blueprint stage. We want genesis away back in 1936 when a conference to see these undertakings put into operation presided over by the late Professor R. \V. H. and \Ye are prepared to help in every way Hawken made certain recommendations. To we can to bring that about, so long always clean up the considerable amount of confu as they are sound economically. sion that existed in this State and in accord Motion (Mr. Foley) agreed to. ance with the report of the late professor, Resolution reported. a committee was appointed in 1937 that has functioned as a co-ordinating body. When we remember the length of time we have been SURVEY CO-ORDINATION BILL. considering this important matter it can be SECOND READING. said that this Bill is considerably overdue. However, I hope that as the result of the Hon. T. A. FOLEY (Belyando-Secre introduction of this legislation, we at last tary for Public Lands and Irrigation) (7.20 shall have some co-ordination among the p.m.) : I move- various surveys that are carried out by the '' That the Bill be now read a second respective public departments and other time.'' authorities and private surveyors in this State. I do not intend to traverse the ground I covered in the introductory stage of this Bill 'l'he Bill provides for the establishment of when I outlined the full history of it and the a Central Plan Office in the Department of appointment of a committee away back in Public Lands, which is the appropriate 1935 by the then Secretary for Public Lands department for the estn blishment of such an to go into the co-ordination of levels in office, as the Surveyor-General operates under Queensland by the establishment of a the Secretary for Public Lands and Irri standard bench mark and the equation of gation. That Central Plan Office will co-ordi· existing and future levels to a standard and natc and tabulate the survey plans of all the co-ordination and correlation of all land public authorities, including local author smvoys in the State. That committee investi ities, \Yhich will be responsible for appointing gated the matter thoroughly in 1936 and sub liaison officers to supply information that mitted certain recommendations to the Acting may be required b;r that office. The Surveyor Premier, which were agreed to on 24 March, General is nmv to ha\·e general power to 1937. A standing committee was then set up, direct what surveys shall be carried out and 2116 Survey Co-ordination Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Survey Co-ordination Bill. hmv they shall be carried out and recorded Office. I know that there has been ycry close in regard to the establishment of permanent eo-operation between the Survey m-General survey marks. and both the Army and the Air Force in the The machinery provisions of the Bill Lleal preparation of maps in this State. The with the recording of plans by the Central Army has paid a great tribute to the Plan Office, and their inspection. Suryeyor-General of this State on the basic information that he supplied to enable it to The main purpose of the Bill, which is a compile the present excellent military maps commend~bl~. one, is to avoid overlapping that are being used in this State. If it had and duphcacion, and therefore unnoccossarv not been for the information supplied by the expense, through the collection, indexing an~l Surveyor-General of Queensland and the real disseminati01: of informat~on rega{·ding co-operation he gave to the Army it would snrveys earned out by Government depart not have been able to turn out the military ments and other public bodies, including the maps which it did, which were urgently various local authorities of the State. In required dming the war. the past, our survey arrangements have certainly been rather haphazard, and there J\Ir. Foley: We have benefited also. has not been the co-operation that one would have expected between the various public JUr. NICKLIN: No doubt we all bene departments, particularly in reaard to the :fited. The Surveyor-General was responsible co-ordination of surveys. As th~ result, the for the printing of the majority of the State and the various State departments military maps that were used during the war. have been put to a great amount of expense Since then the Air Force has conducted in doing a lot of unnecessary work that woulll aerial surveys in various parts of the State have been avoided if we had had some and that information, no doubt, has been co-ordination of various surveys. made available to the Surveyor-General. That The establishment of permanent bench is why I stress the point that although we marks tliToughout the State and the estab haYe nothing in the Bill with regard to co lishment of a base bench n'tark from which operation bet\Yeen the Defence Department to work will be of considerable help. In and the Smvcyor-Geneml 's Department it is recc,nt years those of us who traYel through essential to obtain that co-operation because out the country have noticed thrct already if we do not we shall miss a great deal of the Department of Main Roads, in co-oper information that those departments gather. ation with the Surveyor-General, has estab Mr. Foley: We cannot very well :put lished various uench marks on main roads anything in the Act, but we are assured of throughout the length and breadth of the their good will and co-operation. State. I do not know whether the Railway Department -has co-operated to any extent l\Ir. KICKLIN: Admittedly we cannot in. establi_shing_ bench marks, but along the put anything in our legislation that would m1lway hnes m New South Wales particu be binding on the Commonwealth, but as the larly, quite a comprehensive system of bench hon. Minister said, we can win their good marking can be seen for the assistance of will, because we have had it in the past. I surveyors and to expedite and facilitate know that the Department of the Army owes surveys. a debt of gratitude to the Surveyor-General because of the help he has given it. Everything appears to be covered by the Bill, with the exception of surveys by Com I think this Bill will be very useful, and monwealth departments. I do not know when the machinery is sot up after it passes w!1ether the Minister may have any contact it will do much to prevent needless overlap >nth Commonwealth departments or whether ping, and will save a considerable amount of he has made any representation to them expense, not only by Government departments to co-operate in the general scheme of co-ordi but by all private surveyors who will have nating surveys in this State and in lodging the advantage of the tabulated information their plans with the Central Plan Office that that will be available. will be established after the passina of this Jllr. KERR (Sherwood) (7.32 p.m.): _I Bill. " support the remarks the Leader of the Oppo lllr. Foley: I think we can be assured sition. Recently I came across an interesting of that. point to a surveyor in a law report in New Zealand. It deals with the question of avul 1\'Ir. NICKLIN: I am quite sure that we sion and accretion. Avulsion occurs when shall get their eo-operation. there is a sudden and evident change in the JUr. Foley: As a matter of fact, there course of a river whereby a quantity of soil has already been some co-opeTation on th•3 is severed from the land of one man and part of the military and naval forces in deposited on or next to the land of another. addition to some of the Cornmomv~alth Accretion occurs when a similar result is departments. achieved but by a process so slow as to be in a practical sense imperceptible. I do not Jllr. NICKLIN: I was about to mention the Defence Department, that is the Armv think there is anything in our law that covers the Kavy, and the Air Force. The l'lfinist~; the case of avulsion and accretion. kno>vs that those branches of our defence The parties in this case were respectively forces are doing a great deal of mappin{)' the owners of two pieces of land, both held and sm·veying, and the information gleaned under land-transfer certi:ficates of title, lying b:v them would certainly be of grertt advantage on opposite sides of the Oroua River and if it was tabulated in the Central Plan having that river as the boundary between Survey Co-ordination Bill. [l APRIL.] Government Loan Bill. 2117 them. Since the certificates of title were and settled survey lines on the north side of issued, the course of the river had altered, the river haye been demolished in the course with the result that an area of land com of road alterations and things like that. It pr1sing nearly 11 acres, ·which admittedly had been the custom of surveyors in a pm·ticu was included in the respondent's certificate lar locality to find clearly recognised aml of title, and was formeTly on her sicle of the agreed marks, part of a permanently agreed river, was now on the appellant's side. The survey line, but they fincl they have been appellant and his predecessors contended destroyed by people who were ignorant of that it had become his property. what they must haYe been made foT. It is :iilr. Walsh: Are you sure that was in a tremendous waste of public effort and 1'\ cw Zealand~ skilled and professional work that an agreed or settled smvcy line should be destroyed. I :iiir. KERR: Yes. hope that this clause, vv-hen read in conjunc tion with subsequent clauses, especially Clause lUr. Walsh: I think it was on the 21, which imposes a penalty for destroying a lierbert Riv;er. permanent survey mark, will have the effect I\Ir. KERR: I am sure there is no legis not only of providing a clearly established lation in our statutes to cover this sort of method of providing for permanent records thing should it arise. of settled and agreed permanent lines but will also assure that these things are retained. I It was held by the court of appeal that the trust that it will operate in such a way that cumulative effect of the evidence was to it 1vill stop some of the wanton destruction establish affirmatively that the river took up that I have referred to and which has occurred its present course as the result of a sudden in a few instances in the past. I hope that break at the time of a very high flood, will be the effect of the clause, as I read it. when it carved out for itself a new course sul!stantially the same as that in which it I commend the Minister for having taken now flowed· (whereby avulsion and not accre steps to include this provision relating to tion resulted) ; but, even if the evidence, con permanent survey marks not only on Crown Hiuerec1 as a whole, failed to do this, at least lands but also on privately owned lands it failed to establish that, by a gradual where it is done in agreement with the uccl'etion, imperceptible in its progress, the owners. area of 11 acres became the property of the appellant; and consequently the lanjj I think it is a wise and correct approach belonged to the respondent. to the problem. As the years go by we shall build up a great collection of these per That -was a case where a sudden flood manently correct survey lines that will be of shifted 11 acrerJ of lancl across the river ancl tremendous value to the people concerned and the owner of the land on the other sicle real property in this State. claimed ownership of it, so that avulsion and not accretion resulted. This may not be a Clause 15, as read, agreed to. matter properly to be considered on a survey Clauses 16 to 24, both inclusive, as read, Bill, but there is no legislation in this State agreed to. to cover a case like that. Bill reported, without amendment. Illr. Foley: Yes, there is. THIRD READING. Mr. KERR: I merely raise the issue to put it on record. Bill, on motion of Mr. Foley, reac1 a thin1 Motion (Mr. Foley) agreed to. time. CoMMITTEE. GOVERNMENT LOAN BILL. (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Farrell, SECOND READING. Maryborough in the chair.) Clauses 1 to 14, both inclusive, as read, Hon. E. J. W ALSH (Bundaberg agreed to. Treasurer) (7.43 p.m.): I move- Clause 15-Acloption of existing survey ' 'That the Bill be now read a second marks as permanent marks and maintenance time.'' thereof- Hon. members will appreciate that the Bill before the House is a very important one. As lUr. HILEY (Coorparoo) (7.37 p.m.): I I explained when introducing it, it purports commend the Minister for the inclusion of to authorise the Government to raise loans this clause in the Bill, but I should like to to the amount of £40,000,000 for expenditure draw his attention to some practical diffi upon such public works and services as may culties that haye arisen, which I hope he will be authorised by Parliament. correct. The one thing that makes for cer tainty in the minds of surveyors and the The terms and conditions of the loans public generally is to have a settled and necessary to be issued to procure the amount agreed survey line driven and permanently authorised will be approved by the Loan mm-keel. In the city of Brisbane there are Council and the Queensland Government. a few settled survey lines driven and com The present request is being made because monly agreed upon, some on the south side the authority given in the Government Loan of the riYer and some on the north side. It Act of 1950 to raise £25,000,000 has been is one of the pities that some of the agreed reduced to £16,159,779, which sum will 2118 Government Loan Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Government Lean Bill. probably not be large enough to permit the I can see the Leader of the Opposition with raising of sufficient loan money to implement his ears cocked now. The list continues- the Government's wOTks programme for this £ financial year. Railways . . 18,753,267 At 1 July last the unsold poTtion of the Burdekin River authority 100,000 loans under the 1950 Loan Act, as previously The total expenditure on developmental stated, was £16,159,779. In addition to this works was £71,085,160. Other expenditure amount, there is available the cash balance included- of £2,039,397 in Loan Account at 1 July, and it is expected that £1,300,000 will be received vVoTkeTs' Dwellings and in repayments to Loan Account and homes . . £3,755,279 £2,800,000 from the Commonwealth Savings I hope hon. members will not get this con~ Bank as loans undeT the Commonwealth fused with the activities of the Housing Savings Bank Amalgamation Agreement. Commission, which is quite distinct. Other After allowing for these probable receipts, items under the heading of ''Other Expendi ture'' are- the shoTtage of authority to raise loan moneyo~ £ will be about £1,000,000, consequently this authoTity will be necessaq to carry us over Public buildings 10,735,585 into the financial year after 30 June. The Advances to Railway amount of £40,000,000 that this Bill asks· for Superannuation Fund 423,085 should be adequate to finance the~State woTks That was one of the legacies of the anti~ progmmme for the next financial .yea.r, as Labour Government who were in office from well as this .year's programme. 1929 to 1932. In order that members may have some Further expenditure under this heading was knowledge of the loan moneys and how they £ have been utilised by the Government, I 464,211 submit details of the expenditure from loan A.R.P. equipment funds from 1 July, 1932, to 30 June, 1951. Sundry works 516,745 or a grand Developmental expenditure under the making a total of £15,894,905, various headings was- total of £86,980,065. £ I should like hon. members to pay par~ Main Roads 8,309,623 ticular attention to these phases because it will be noted that of the £86,980,065 Land Settlement 12,691,739 expended, 81.71 per cent. or £71,075,160 was Rmal Assistance 5,107,617 on developmental works. Mining 944,603 Loans and subsides to JUr. Muller: Chiefly in Brisbane. local bodies 18,226,697 1\Ir. WALSH: The balance was chiefly JUr. ~Iuller: In 19 years. used for public buildings and advances for home-building. It is obvious that the hon. ~Ir. W ALSH: I will deal with that as I member for Fassifern has not been listening go along. If the hon. member wants the and is not prepared to accept the fact that Government's policy in connection with sub~ the great bulk of this money has been spent sidies, now is the time for him to come into outside the city of BTisbane. the debate. The other developmental expendi· ture 1vas- During the same period, repayments to £ loan funds totalled £22,465,557, whereby the gross loan expenditure was reduced to Somerset Dam 2,468,191 £64,514,508. Repayments therefore contri~ Brisbane River Improve- buted 25.83 per cent. of the gross loan ment 647,363 expenditure, which reflects considerable credit Story Bridge 102,500 on the Government for wise and effective St. Lucia Bridge 62,700 handling of loan fund finance. I want the Burdekin River Bridge 1,107,648 hon. member for Coorparoo to pay particular Tull.y Falls Hydro-electric attention to these figures. scheme 454,000 Domestic raisings also have been very help~ Callide Road Connection 239,830 ful in supplying loan moneys, thus relieving If' the hon. member for Fassifern has any the pressm·e on public borrowings. Since ideas on that I might say that is State July, 1932, to end of June, 1951, £18,260,410 money, not Commonwealth money. has been received from domestic raisings, of which sum £16,226,000 was for loans under ~Ir. JUuller: I have not said anything the Commonwealth Savings Bank Amalgama· yet. Wait until I have spoken. tion Agreement. The amount received for Jir. WALSH: I am just telling the hon. domestic raisings was 20.99 per cent. of the member. Further developmental expenditure gross loan expenditure, and the combined was- repayments and domestic raisings covered £ 46.82 per cent. of this expenditure, leaving Docks and shipping facili only 53.18 per cent., er £46,254,098, to be ties 778,702 financed from public raisings. Rocklea munition buildings 465,680 Anticipating the remarks of the Leader of Queensland-British Food the Opposition and those of the hon. member Corporation 625,000 for Coorparoo, and having regard to the Government Loan Bill. [1 APRIL.] Government Loan Bill. 2119 article that appeared in the week-end Press may remember something about the State by Sir Arthur }'adden I want to say that we enterprises of some years ago. \V e are still arc not dependent upon the Commonwealth to paying for the losses that were incurred on a great extent so far as loan raisings are them. If he would like something more up concerned. to date, what about the £500,000 loss on the Queensland-British Food Corporation project, Jlir. Nicklin: But you kick up a row if in which he proudly said tonight the State you do not get what you expect. had so much money invested. The less saicl jj{r. W ALSH: I have a very good story about those things the better from the to tdl in defence of this Government. I Treasurer's point of view, instead of his must stress the point that by comparison with coming here tonight and boasting that loan the very sub3t::mtial works programmes that money raised in the past has been '"ell and have been carried out by this Government, the wisely spent. Much of it has been wasted, incn"tse in the public debt has not been very and unfortunately the taxpayers of this State great. Although the gross loan expenditure will be paying for that tragic waste for was £86,980,065, the increase in the debt was many years to come. only £.54,245,116. This satisfactory position The Loan Bill that '"e have under con is due to the repayments, which have been sideration is one of the features of our set off against expenrlitme, and to the reduc Parliamentary system, under which every tions of the Public Debt as a result of the Government must submit to this House their operations of the K ational Debt Sinking loan requirements for approval or disapproval. Fund. This is the 20th Loan Bill that has been Sinking Fund contributions are payable on presented to this Parliament since and all loan raisings and hon. members doubtless including 1890, and without having the figures before me, I should say that the amount will be interested to kno~ that up to the end of June last Queensland securities to the asked for on this occasion is possibly the face value of £21,378,521 had been cancelled greatest that has ever been asked for by any through the National Debt Sinking Fund. In Treasurer for the period of two years, w],ich the same period contributions to the fund has been the usual period coHred in recent by Queensland amounted to £18,291,810 and years. £4,752,077 was provided by the Common However, this State has to continue to wealth. 'rhis progressive reduction of the develop and it must have money to carry out Public Debt imposes a heavy charge on the that development. All I can say is that I annual Budgets for Sinking Fund contribu hope the Government will spend the loan tions, but there can be no doubt that the money that '"ill be voted to it by this Parlia system is financially sound and the results ment much more '"iselv and much more to highly satisfactory. the achantage of this "state than they have I feel that enough has been said to indicate in many instances in the past. For example, this afternoon we hacl another of the rJovern that the position of the State's loan fund ment 's half-baked financial schemes placed finanrrs is excellent, and that the Govern· hefore us. It is estimated that it will cost ment 's developmental policy is for the good of £20,000.000 but the actnal cost will very all the people of the State and amply justifies probably be a good dral more th::m that. the loan moneys which have been spent and The debate on that matter showed that the will be spent in the future. I do not propose scheme that was presentee! to this Parliament to s~.y anything further at this stage because had not been thoroughly investigated before I haYc outlined the position so that hon. it 'Yns placed before us. Conscquentl;y, any members 'Yill understand the :financial posi thing might happen in regard to it. tion of the State with regard to loan raisings and the expenditure over the years I have I want to deal tonight particul::trly with mentioned. It is now proposed to raise the remarks of the 'l'reasurcr when intro £40,000,000 ancl the indications arc that at ducing this Bill. In his introductory speech, the end of June of this year we shall be the Treasurer displayed his usual adroitness about £1,000,000 short in our programme. in creating alleged facts and twisting facts to suit his arguments. I must admit that Jlir. NICKLIN (Landsborough-Leader he is a past-master at doing that. In an of the Opposition) (7.54 p.m.): In his intro endeavour to make his case, he fills ductory remarks tonight the Treasurer had a '' H ansard'' with pages and pages of tables. lot to say about the allegedly wise financial Notwithstanding those pages and pages of policy the Government have followed over the tables, his statements arc not correct. We years and he talked glibly about millions of could term him the Federal Government pounds spent in the development of the State baiter, because ever since he has taken over but he conveniently forgot to tell us about the Treasury Department on this occasion he the tragic losses the State has had to suffer, has spent 9/10ths of his time blaming the losses that the taxpayers of the State are Pederal Government for their alleged lack paying as a result of unwise loan expenditure of consideration of this State. He said that in the past. the State Government have handled their Jlir. Walsh: When was that? finances wisely, and hinted, inferentially, paTticularly when dealing with Callide, that Mr. NICKLIN: Let me remind the the Commonwealth Government had not Minister of one or h\'o items. I am not treated Queensland as fairly as they might going to cleal with all of them, because I have. Yet the Treasurer knows that this have only 40 minutes in which to speak State has never received better treatment (Opposition laughter). Perhaps the Treasurer from any Federal Government than it has 2120 Government Loan Bill. {ASSEMBLY.] Government Loan Bi~l. from the present Federal Government. He contribution has the Treasurer made~ All hopes that he does not have to accept the the time he says, '' Give us more money to responsibility of collecting his own taxation, spend.'' That is all he says. He does not face but that he will still have the same benevolent up to the realities of the situation; he does Federal Government to supply his needs, a not care two hoots what is going to ha pp en in Government upon whom he hul'ls his curses this country. All he says is, ''Give us, give nevertheless. us, give us-give us loan money to spend.'' \Vhat a tragic result of the loan money he Now let me deal with the Treasurer's intro has had to spend! He made a great song duct01:Y statement. I think his remarks can about the fact that when the Chifley Govern be divided into three phases, the first his ment \Yere in office they raised loans totalling statement that money can be found for civil £820,000,000 between 1945 and 1949 and he purposes to the same extent as for war; the \\·ent on to say that these loans were over second his attempt to blame the Menzies Slfbscribed by £66,000,000. Fadden Government for present financial restrictions; and the third his ridiculous !Ir. Walsh: You do not deny that, do assertions about what Mr. Forgan Smith did you~ to save Australia in 1932. The old, old story! Mr. NICKLIN: I do deny it. It is not quite true. Many of the loans were under Mr. Walsh: It is so true. subscribed by over 40 per cent. !Ir. Walsh: Name the loans? !Ir. NICKLIN: The Treasurer has told this story so often that he almost believes it !Ir. NICKLIN: And the balance was himself. taken from Commonwealth Savings Bank funds. That has been proved by the present Federal Treasurer, Sir Arthur Faclden, time I will deal with the Minister's statement and again. It was alleged that the loans were about inflation and the present financial over-subscribed but, as I say, the balance restrictions. In his public statements, and was taken from Commonwealth Savings Bank at every opportunity he has, the Treasurer funds. howls to high heaven that Queensland is ruined because of the restrictions in regard J:Ur. Walsh: Name the loans that were to finance and imports imposed by the Fed under-subscribed. eral Government. How long ago were these !Ir. NICKLIN: The Treasurer knows restrictions imposed f Less than one month. that and now he has the colossal effrontery Their effect has been negligible up to the to come into this House and quote the present time, yet the Minister howls to high hem·en at every opportunity he gets that the figures relating to the loans raised by the Federal Government have ruined Queensland. Chifiey Government. JI'Ir. Walsh: I can give you the figures I admit, Mr. Speaker, and so does everyone for every month, for every year, ancl for \Yho has given any consideration to the every amount. matter, that the :l''ederal Government's bud· get for 1951-52 imposed stringent rates of Mr. NICKLIN: Will you give us the taxation. Why did they do that~ To pro information as to where they came from~ vide for defence and a surplus of £114,000,000 as an anti-inflation measure, lUr. Walsh: Yes. and also to help the States. The hon. the JUr. NICKLIN: I do not think that the Minister knows quite well that the loan pro: hon. gentleman will. The general public are gramme as approved by the Loan Council not aware that the present Federal Treasurer this year will not be covered by the public has disclosed the fact that the Chifley Govern loan raisings. It was to help the States and ment got the money from Commonwealth to put an anti-inflationary break on spending Savings Bank funds in vrder to bolster up that they budgeted for a big surplus. If their loan raisings. Do not let ns forget also they had not budgeted for that surplus and that the two last loans raised by the Chifiey the States had missed their money, would Government were over-subscribed because of we not have heard something from the the fact that there was a great deal of hot Treasurer~ He would have kicked up more money about that had come to Australia at row than he does at the present time. that time because the owners of it thought Ever since the Menzies-Fadden Givernment that the Government were going to revalue were elected in December, 1949, Labour the £1. When there was a change of Govern propagandists have been squealing, "When ment ancl revaluation of the £1 went over are you going to put value back into the board the owners of the hot money were left. £~" We know only too well that L.(lbour It is quite true that you can go on obtain ruined the £. The Treasurer knows ing money as we did during the war and post only too well that inflation can only be war years but the position would, as it did cured in two ways - by the public having in the past, become prvgressively worse until, less money to spend and by more production. as in Germany in the early 20's, it would be The emphasis is on more production. The worthless money that would be useless for latter, of course, is a slow process, but put financing anything. The Treasurer will not ting the brake on spending is something that be happy until we reach the stage when we can be done immediately if we desire to shall require a wheel-barrow to wheel our make a real contribution towards checking money up the street to buy a loaf of bread. the inflationary spiral. What sort of a That is what he is aiming at. All the time Government Loan Bill. [1 APRIL.] Government Loan Bill. 2121 he is demanding more loan money to spend in which the State's finances were handled on irrespective of what the results will be. That that occasion; on the contrary they could is the crux of the argument. The first only throw abuse across the Chamber. When essential step is to stabilise our paper money Mr. Chifley spoke as quoted he showed some before it is too late. And that entails, for sense of responsibility in public life, but the one thing, less Government spending. Treasurer has not revealed a great sense of No doubt the Treasurer here is advocating responsibility, judging by his irresponsible a method that would giYe us more money statements from time to time about the that would buy less. The Treasurer knows actions of the Federal Government. that inflation of the currency is only a form Mr. Walsh: It was part of the policy of Government robbery. It robs the people of your party, the Liberal Party, and the of their savings and the value of their Tory Press to use Lang to defame Chifley. incomes. It is unavoidable in war but in normal times it is an abhorrent practice. Mr. NICKLIN: It is no use trying to Drastic taxation may be tough on the people bring in Mr. Lang or anybody else in order but it is not nearly so tough as currency to cloclge one's responsibility. The Treasurer inflation. Continuance of currency inflation has to accept his Tesponsibility in this matter. may lead us into the same condition as other There can be no greater contrast between countries that previously followed this course Mr. Chifley 's speech and the irresponsible found themselves in. We know what tragic remarks of the Treasurer on Thnrsday last. circumstances and what hardship have Mr. Chifiey was fearful abont the inflationary resulted to the people of those nations. effect of the 40-hour week, and he absolved the Menzies-Fadclen Government from blame I >Yant members to contrast the approach for the inflation. The Treasurer has been of the Treasurer to this important problem of very adequately answered by Mr. Chifley. inflation with the approach of the late Mr. Chiller when he was endeavouring to bring Let me return to the point I made in regard it to an end. He faceu up to the realities of to the allegedly wonderful part Mr. Forgan the situation, but he >Yas frustrated by the Smith played in enabling Queensland to over 40-hour YYE'ek anu the consequent vicious spiral come the depression. This continual state of wage increases. The following statement ment to the effect that JI.Ir. Forgan Smith was \vas made by Mr. Chifley when speaking at the financial saviour of Queensland and the Lithgow Trades Hall on 8 March, Australia is just a frauuulcnt political trick. 1948:- As I said previonsly, hon. members of the , 'If the industrial production of Aus Government side have almost conyinced them tralia is not maintained and greatly selYes, by continually repeating this fable, improved, one must expect economic dis that it is true. V.'hcn we examine the facts n-;tcr .... Costs had necessarilv risen fol we find it is just another of those fraudulent loYving the 40-hour week and they would political tricks that they put over from time continue to rise.'' to time. How true that prophecy of Mr. Chifley's Let us examine the facts one by one to pro,·ed to be! Costs lm,-e continued to rise see whether the statements made by the :md unfortunately they haYe not been checked Treasurer and other hon. members on the 1cally effectively yet. Government side are correct. 'When the MooTe Government were elected in May, 1929, Speaking in the Federal Parliament in there >vas wholesale unemployment throughout October 1950 Mr. Chifley Eaic1- Austmlia. In Queensland, according to an ' 'I am really perturbed at the growing official return as at 30 September, 1928, there spiral of inflation in this country, and for were 116,176 persons totally or partially that matter in other countries. Neither unemployed. • this (Menzies) nor any other goyernment Mr. Walsh: Representing what per ean be blamed for the inflationarv element. centage? EY-ery man in public life who h~s a sense of responsibility mu~t give serious con Mr. NICKLIN: Well over 20 per cent. sideration to the country's honour, of the popnlation. economy, prestige and standing abroad and to the heritage of its future citizens. I hope lUr. Walsh: In 1928? the Government will do something to cor Tect the present disturbed state of our 1\Ir. NICKLIN: Yes. economy, whether such action be popular lUr. Walsh: You do not know what you or unpopular.'' are talking about. ~What a contrast to the approach of the Mr. NICKLIN: Let the Treasurer Treasurer to this problem! Mr. Chifley had refute it if he can. He knows the figures I the decency to say that the Menzies Govern am quoting are taken from a table that was ment, who were battling with this problem, tabled in this House by the late Hon. D. A. could not cleal with it adequately owing to the Gledson. Yarious limiting factors that operated. 1\Ir. Walsh: That takes in all the We find when dealing with a Government inmates of Goodna, Dunwich and everywhere of the past in this State-the Moore Govern else. ment, who made a real contribution to the financial stability of this State-ho11. mem Mr. NICKLIN: The position when the bers sitting behind the Treasurer did not have Moore Government were elected after a snc the decency to pay any tribute to the way cession of previous Labour Governments was .:122 Government Loan Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Government Loan Bill. not as hon. members on the Government side normal employment to our citizens who now would have it. When the Moore Government have neither work nor wages.'' What does took office they found a record number of that mean~ What effect did it have on the unemployed in this State. finances of Australia when it was already decided to borrow this £2,400,000 ~ ~Ir. Walsh: That is not true. TheTe was a bit of a doubt as to who ~Ir. NICKLIN: It is true, and th:" was responsible for this famous addendum Treasurer knmYs it. If there was a grrater which after all was only a meaningless verbal number of unemployed it must have been audition. There were two people who claimed under some previous Labour regime. that they fathered this wonderful addendum. The Premiers' Plan, about which we hear Mr. Forgan Smith came back to Queensland a good deal from hon. members opposite, was and said that he fathered it and Mr. Stevens adoptf'd after two years of bickering, in of New South Wales contended that he July, 1931. If it hall been adopted two fathered it. Hon. members opposite have years earlier, that is, if the inevitable adjust repeated the claim that Mr. Forgan Smith ments to the changcu circumstances had been fatheTed it-this world-shattering addendum made t\Yo years earlier, serious unemploy that was the means of saving Queensland. ment would have been overcome. Because In the 1932 session of the Queensland Par the Governments of Australia-and the liament the Forgan Smith Government majority were Labour Governments-would inserted a provision in the Industrial Con not and could not agree to this plan earlier, ciliation and Arbitration Act which excluded Australia had to suffer unnecessary unemploy Queensland public servants from the juris ment for two years. It has to be remembered diction of the court. They were going to also that thi~ Premiers' Plan, which hon. see that no public servants in this State got members on the Government side condemn as an advantage out of the restored financial some machination of the Tories in Australia, situation brought about prior to the addendum >Yas adopted by four Labour and three non inserted at the Premier's conference. They Labour GoYcrnments. took jolly good care that their own employees The Federal Labour Government, the were not going to share in the general Scullin Government, were defeated in 1931, improvement that might take place as a mul the Lyons Government took office on result of a loan to meet the financial position. A Labour Government subsequent to the G January, 1932. By that time the value of Commonwealth bonds had dropped to less action of the Moore Government that removed than £80 and borrowing had become almost an Queensland public servants from the juris impossibility. diction of the Court passed similar legisla tion. This was essential and was part of the lllr. Walsh: Why? aTrangcmcnt under the PTemieTs' Plan, as the Treasurer well knows. Every Government in lllr. NICKLIN: With bonds down to £80 Australia had to do it-a Federal Labour and unemployment rife, the Treasurer asks Government, State Labour Governments am1 why borrowing had become almost an impos non-Labour Governments had to do it. sibility! As the Treasurer well knows, it >Yas almost impossible to borrow because the In FebruaTy, 1933, the Forgan Smith Labour Governments in Queensland and other Government successfully opposed a claim for paTts of Australia, together with the Federal an increase in the basic wage. This famous Labour Government at that time, had pursued Government with such a high regard for the such policies as left the Commonwealth with >vorkers of the State opposed a claim for an out any money. There was no money left increase in the basic wage in 1933 and Mr. and there was no confidence in the future of Justice Webb commented in these words this country. '' One shudders to think what the position would have been if the basic wage had In April, 1932, the Commonwealth Bank remained £4 5s.'' I ask hon. members to advised that loan money would be obtainable note-- and it was decided by the Loan Council to raise a first loan of £2,400,000 for the relief 1Ur. SPEAKER: Order! I hope the of unemployment. This was decided in April Leader of the Opposition will connect his 1932. ' remarks with the matter of loan raisings. Now we come to July, 1932, that world-shat Mr. NICKLIN: Loan raisings are con tering date when the Premiers' Conference nected with the finances of the State. was first attended by that wizard of finance, JHr. FoTgan Smith_ At that conference a In his 1932 policy speech Mr. Forgan rpsolution was passed pledging all Govern Smith said-and I ask hon. members to note ments to adhere to the principles of the this-that the Labour Party opposed that Premiers' Plan. It must be remembered here part of the Premiers' Plan which provided that Mr. Forgan Smith repudiated that plan for arbitrary reductions in wages, pensions 1J_t3fore he was elected and then, when he goes and social services, yet when the Labour uown theTe he puts his hand up and says he Government regained power they took is in favour of it. immediate action to carry out the things that they previously allegedly opposed. Do not ~Ir. Walsh: He did nothing of the sort. let us forget that the Moore Government were llir. NICKLIN: This famous addendum compelled, under the financial exigencies that was added which allegedly saved Queensland confronted them, to stand up to their obliga and Austmlia. It was moved by that wizard tions, together with the other five Govern of finance, Mr. Forgan Smith, ''to restore ments of Australia, under the Premiers' Plan, Govemment Loan Bill. [l APRIL.] Government Loan Bill. 2123 aml when they could not raise loan moneys night, added either by Mr. Stevens or they were compelled to take action to reduce Mr. Forgan Smith-they both claim it; the basic wage in this State, for which they goodness knows who was responsible for were bitterly assailed by the LalJour Party it-was merely verbal and was only for during the 1932 election campaign, yet when political propaganda purposes. It made no the Labour Party was returned to power, difference in any way IYhatsoever. notwithstanding the fact that just prior to Do not let us forget that the members its retum, and after its return, loan moneys of the Forgan Smith Labour Party, when again became aYailable, and the Labour in Opposition, were the most blatant critics Government were able, as the result, to start of the Premiers' Plan, yet when they were loan works, and although it would have been retumed to power they adopted it holus possible because of the general improvement bolus, because they Tealisell the v-alue of in conditions in this State to grant increased that plan in restoring financial stability to wages to the wage-earners, they consistently the Commonwealth. When they became the opposeLl the increasing of the basic wage, Government, Mr. Speaker, they were the which remained at £3 14s. till April, 1937, slowest Government in Australia to restore that is, for 5it years after the Forgan Smith all these cuts, which they criticised the other Government took office, when it was increased Government for making, and they treated to £3 18s. their public servants very, very shabbily The Labour Govemment, who allegedly in this State. handle the finances of this State wisely, JUr. SPEAKER: Order! This Bill deals refused to give public servants their clue in with the futnre development of this State. increased emoluments. In .T uly, 1936, The hon. member need not go right back answering a combined deputation of Public into the past. Service unions, and refusing to restore the salary cuts imposed under the Premiers' Mr. NICKLIN: When we are dealing Plan, Mr. Forgan Smith said- 1vith the effect of loan raising in this State we haYe to look back into the past because '' Employees on the basic wage in if loans are going to be mishandled in the Queensland had suffered a reduction of only future as loans in the past have been, this 13 per cent. since June, 1930, but the cuts House has to consider what it should do. in the other States in round figures, were: Victoria 23 per cent; South Australia, li'Ir. SPEAKER: . Order! The hon. 22 per cent.; Western Australia, 19 per gentleman must deal with the principles of cent.; New South Wales, 16 per cent." this Bill in regard to the future development of this State. :Mr. Muhlclorff, the president of the State Service Union, said in January, 1938- Mr. NICI{LI~: Mr. Speaker, I ask you '' Queensland public servants were the one question: if you were an investor in a only Crown employees in the British Empire State loan would you not look at how moneys who had not had their salary reductions, had been invested in the past before con imposed by legislation, restored to them. sidering investing money for the future~ Crown employees in Queensland were not li'Ir. SPEAKER: Is the hon. member proud of the record which had been forced trying to embarrass the Chair~ on them by their employers-the Labom Government.'' Thlr. NICKLIN: I think. Sir, you would To summarise, it was the Lyons Govern certainly take that consideration into account. ment who initiated loans for the Telief of Now, I have finished with that point, and I unemployment in ApTil, 1932. It was not a conclude by replying to the allegation of LabouT GoveTnment, not Mr. Forgan Smith niggardly treatment of the States by the oT the Queensland Labour GoveTnment; that Commonwealth Government over the years, system was instituted by the Lyons Govem with regard to loan funds. We find that ment pTioT to the return of the Forgan the States have been treated very well by Smith Govemment in this State. the Commonwealth Government. Here are the figures- li'Ir. Walsll: That is not true. £ Mr. NICKLIN: It was in April, 1932, 1946-47 30,800,000 and the TTeasurer cannot tell me that the 1947-48 45,500,000 Forgan Smith Government had then been 1948-49 49,600,000 elected. If the Scullin Government had 1949-50 82,900,000 remained in power, such loans would have 1950-51 145,900,000 been unobtainable. It was only as the result of the defeat of the Labour Govern And for 1951-52, the year that the Treasurer ment in the Federal sphere that confidence is complaining about, £225,000,000. once again returned to Australia, and as JUr. Walsh: Has this State received the result of a more realistic approach to £225,000,000 ~ the problems of the day, the Lyons Govern ment were able to obtain loan money in Thir. NICKLIN: That is the greatest April, 1932. That was the beginning of amount of loan money which the States have fresh supplies of loan money, and it was recoivecl from the Commonwealth Govern the turning point in the depression that ment, yet the Minister still complains that h:rt Australia during those years. The his State is being unfairly treated. amendment of July, 1932, about which the Mr. Walsh: You got your percentages Treasurer made such a song on Thursday mixed. .2124 Government Loan Bill• [ASSEMBLY.] Government Loan Bill, Mr. NICKLIN: All I can say is that is £86,000,000 more than last year and this State has fared very well in receipts £179,000,000 more than two years ago. What from the Commonwealth Government, and if is wrong with that? 1t l'Ontinues to be as liberally treated in the }Jr. Walsh: I think you must be quot future as it has been this year the Treasurer ing the figures presented in the House of y:ill have nothing whatsoever to complain Commons. ubout. JUr. MULLER: I am dealing with }lr. lUULLER (Fassifern) (8.34 p.m.) : figures in Australia, not those overseas. A us I have been amazed when listening to -the tralia is good enough for me in this Treasurer, by the irresponsible statements he connection. has maue. He said that in his opinion the shortage of loan money was entirely due to \Yhat arc the figure' in eonnection 'vith loan a lack of confidence in the Commonwealth money for local authorities and semi-govern Government. mental borlies? During recent years they ha Ye played no small part in swelling the total Itlr. Walsh: That is true. amount of loan money. ltir MULLER: The Minister went to a Mr. J esson:. What are you quoting good deal of truoble and spent a good deal from'? of his energy, but after listening to him I can come to no other conclusion than that Jir. JIULLER: I suggest that the hon. he made a pmely political speech. He member get his own information and make his endeavoured to make whatever political capital own speed! in his own wav. The actual he could out of the inilationary position that raising:s for semi-governmenta'l bodies are as exists touay. He also tried to mislead the follows- younger members of the Committee in failing £ to go into some detail to explain how the 1947-48 21,000,000 Loan Council was constituted. 'l'he Common 1948-49 29,000,000 wealth Government arc not entirely respon 1949-50 49,000,00D sible for loan raisings. The older mem1Jer.3 1950-.51 69,000,000 of Parliament know how the Loan Council 19;)1-52 is constituted but the 'l'reasm·er went out of 96,000,000 his way to mislead the Committee lJy suggest The Treasurer and his cohorts have been ing that the loan raiJings were the sole going out of their way during the last few responsibility of the Commonwealth Govnn months to convince local authorities that ment. The Loan Council comprises rcpre they have been restricted in their expenditure sr,ntativcs of the St>:tes and the ConGnon because of the policy of the Federal Govern wealth itself. Our State is represented at ment. 2\;' othing is further from the truth. the Lo:m Council me2tings. What could be I have referred to the constitution of the fairer than that'? Loan Council ancl the method of raising The hon. gentleman a !so cnclcavourcd to money. After all, the Commonwealth Gov convev the impression that it was because enuneut are only the instrument in the hands the p'rescnt party was in power in the Com of the Loan Council to raise the loans and momvcalth that loan raisings hac1 been rli ;tJ ilmte them to the States and govern rcstrictcll. Let us haYc a look at the loan mental bodies. It is no use saying that we money that has been lHOYir1erl for Govern arc unduly rcstricteu, in view of those figures ment and semi-Governmental ncc·ds for the I ha.-e (ruoteu. The 'l'reasurer 's speech was current year. I haYe the figures here. I cxaggeraterl grossly ::mcl amounted to a mali knew that thev arc correct and the Tre:.snrcr cious attack on the Commonwealth Go.-ern will not attempt to dispute them. 'l'he mcnt. It 'vas irresponsible and certainly far approYcd loan raisings for the current year from the truth. amount to £321,000,000. We have to bear in mind that Australia Mr. Walsh: Approved rarsmgs, but and the whole of the British Commonwealth whether they will be raised or not is another of Nations are passing through a very diffi n:attcr. cult period, as a result of the inflationary trend. 'l'he present circumstances call for lUr. }lULLER: I am making my o:wn leadership by statesmen and not by poli Fpeech in my own way and if my figmes ar0 ticians. We in Australia have to do something inconect I want the 'l'reasureT to say so. That to meet the inflationary position. If we do not, is fair. A total of £321,000,000 wa~ approyed, we shall suffer the cruel consequences of infla 'vhich is £86,000,000 more th:m last year, tion. W o all know what is likely to happen nnd £179,000,000 more than the year before unless something is done and if is easential mul that is after the 25 per cent. cut is that 've take positive action. No-one has any applied. right, particularly a responsible person like the }ir. Walsh: The fact of the matter is 'l'reasurer, to make statements that he knows that the money has not been raised under the are misleading to the people of Australia. l'lfenzies-E'aclden Government. We cannot criticise any Government for per haps restricting the amount of money we Jlr. MULLER: The hon. gentleman can may raise. The Commonwealth Government squirm as much as he likes. The fact remains arc anly carrying out the wishes of the Loan that my figures are correct. The approved Council. If you are going to advocate the loan rai,·ings amounted to about £400,000,000 reduction of loan raisings you will have to and after the 25 per cent. cut W'ls appEcrl put some check on the amount of money they still amounted to £321,000,000, 'vhich you spenc1. We shall have to take positive Governm".nt Loan Bill. [l APRIL.] Government Loan Bill. 2125 action to deal with the inflationary position, JUr. ]}IULLER: The Treasurer said we otherwise >Ye shall go on borrowing and got nothing from the Commonwealth GoYern spending and so accentuating the inflation, ment. I remind him that the Commonwealth which can only lead to further trouble. Goyernment haYe stated that they are pre }Jr. Walsh: We did that during the war, pm·ecl to examine and consider any genuine you !mow. claims for drought relief or for relief from damage caused by bush fires. JUr. JUULLER: The Treasurer made that point the other night. The raising of money i)lr. ,SPEAKER: Order! during the war was essential in order to lUr. i)JULLER: The Commonwealth maintain the freedom of our children and Government are prepared to provide loan granc1children. money for that purpose if the States arc i)Jr. Walsh: What about the fellows who prepared to contribute their share. \Yent over to fight the war~ What are you going to do with them~ You cannot even i)Jr. SPEAKER: Order! !mild their war-service homes. ]}lr. MULLER: In his wild speech the i)Jr. IUULLER: I should not like to deal other night, the Treasurer criticised the with the matter of ·war-service homes now. Commonwealth Government for their mis The Treasurer has likened the present posi deeds and their part in bringing about the tion to the raising of money during the war present economic position of Australia. Per period, but then it was a question of life and haps it is not out of place here to examine death. Every country in the world borrowed the cause of this inflationary position and the heavily. Great Britain went hopelessly into reason whv the Commonwealth Government debt; she is still heavily in debt and heaven are obliged to impose restrictions. lmo>YS how she will ever get out of it. Governments did that for the purpose of pro ]}Jr. Walsh: You admit they did put restrictions on~ tecting Great Britain and Australia. We hail to c1o likewise. My mind goes back 20 lUr. lUULLER: I do not admit that at years >Yhen we were passing through a period all but I do admit that the inflationary con of deflation. l\fr. Forgan Smith described the dition was operating at very high pressure Opposition at that time as deflationists. He before the l\fenzies-Fadden Government were >:aid that the only possibility of lifting the elected and they are now placed in the rotten depression from the people of Australia was position of having to deal with an evil through a system of inflation. I venture created by the Chifley Government. The the opinion, on the question of loan raisings position today is exactly the same as it was and the financing of every country, that it is under the Moo re Government's Tegimc in wise for any Government to take the middle Queensland. 'vVe had a deflationary con course. I believe that you can have an dition at that time and the people kickc fact, that was the worst possible thing to do. I contend that it is impossible to develop this In times of depression, when people are country unless we borrow money for the pur unemployed, it is wise to mortgage your socks pose of production. Unless we increase our and keep people in employment. It is production, the position will remain as it is. certainly a bad business to have people idle, It is no use engaging in a lot of political because the idle person, or the person out of humbug and blaming the other fellow for all a job, is making no contribution to the the trouble. \Ve must be prep-ared to admit economy of the country. Our object should some of our own mistakes. be to see that everyone is engaged in useful In the course of his introductory speech employment. That position will come again, the Treasurer traversed the earth-he dealt because there is evidence that industry is with everv one of these matters-and I am being strained to bring about unemployment. sure he i~ bursting to reply to some of the \V e have to do something to stave off the things that I should like to say, but that you, danger of further unemployment, which will Mr. Speaker, feel are not strictly within the be brought about in the same way as by a scope of this debate. deflationa.ry position. Look at what history records happened during a period of infla lUr. SPEAKER: Order! The only tion. I know that most hon. members read matters thn t can be discussed in this the and they know that in our history we have second-reading stage of the Bill, are the met periods of inflation. Governments have principles contained in it. introduced inflation to get out of financial difficulties, but ·what has happened in every ]}Ir. lliULLER: I am quite aware of case~ Under inflation the rich become richer that, Mr. Speaker. Nevertheless, even tonight, and the poor become poorer, and I am making in his secom1-reac1ing speech, the Treasurer a plea tonight for the poorer people, for the gave a very broad hint as to what would be his working class of Queensland. \Ve should do reply to the Opposition. our utmost to clestrov inflation in Australia Whilst I believe that it may be necessary as quickly as we can. we cannot do that for the State to do \vhat is contemplated unless restrictions are placed upon us. If we under this Bill, the fact remains that the permit every person to spend as much money Commonwealth Government cannot restrict as he wants to we get into a difficult position. this State to the extent that the Treasurer You can do as much by over-spending as by has endeavoured to lead the State to believe. under-spending. I think the Leader of the The Government have a perfect right to raise Opposition put his finger on the point when money that they think they will need for he said that nothing has been a greater essential purposes, and the amount now being contributing factor to inflation than the proYided is very much greater than it was 40-hour week. e\·en a year or t\\'O ago. Nevertheless, as I said earlier, some discretion must be exer }Ir. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem cised in matters of this kind. The Treasurer ber is not in order in discussing the 40-hour must know perfectly well that the raising of week. loans tor1ny is not the easy matter that it )Ir. ]}IULLER: Only so far as it wa" a few years ago. applies-- ~Ir. Walsh: Why? ::tir. SPEAKER: Order! The House is lUr. JliULLER: Like everything else, dealing with the question of loan raisings. there is a limit to the amount of loan money that can be raised. ~Ir. lUULLER: While I have every regard for your view, Mr. Speaker, I may llir. Walsh: What about the increase in say I differ with you in that respect. deposits in trading banks and savings banks~ lUr. lUULLER: The Treasurer himself }Ir. SPEAKER: Order! said the other night-and I quite agree with IUr. lUULLER: Very well, Mr. Speaker. him-that there is a danger that the present I am sure you \Vill agree that the economy Commomvealth loan will not be successful. of any nation depends upon its production. Mr. Walsh: I did not say that. JUr. SPEAKER: Order! We are not illr. lliULLER: The Treasurer said that considering production. As I have already the last two Commonwealth loans were failures stated, we a.re considering loan raisings. and that the third one was likely to be. ~Ir. -niULLER: I ask you: how can any lUr. Walsh: I did not say anything person engage in production and get the about the present loan. wherewithal to produce without a loan~ I Mr. JliULLER: The Treasurer knows started off with ·only a couple of hundred just as well as I why those loans were not pounds, and I borrowed a couple of subscribed. He knows perfectly well that the thousand pounds in order to get production. demand for money today is so great and that the opportunity for investment is so much ~Ir. SPEAKER: Order! That has nothing at all to do with the matter under greater than it was a few years ago-- discussion. lllr. Walsh: Who is getting the money? The farmers are not getting it. :i\Ir. ]}IULLER: I know that, Mr. Speaker, but just as individuals are part of the State, Jllr. MULLER: You cannot catch old so is the State part of the Commonwealth. hens with chaff. The Treasurer knows that. Government Loan Bill. [l APRIL.} Government Loan Bill. 2127 He knows also that semi-governmental bodies benefit to the country, and is going to accen and other public bodies, such as electric tuate the inflationary position, and you will authorities, are raising private loans and are have more people unemployed than if you paying a higher rate of interest than the lot things work out their ordinary course. Commonwealth Government are prepared to Mr. Speaker, I do regret that you some pay. "·hat curbed this discussion. I appreciate lUr. Walsh: That is not true. your yie>Ypoint and I always appreciate your rulings, but I do feel that these matters in li'Ir. ll'IULLER: It is true. connection with our financial position play lUr. Walsh: They are not raising private a very important part in our loan raisings. loans. The position may be reached when we shall not be able to raise this loan money. If lUr. lUULLER: The Treasurer cannot you could create money as you make quibble about that. He knmvs perfectly well cigarette papers, it might be another matter, that it is possible to invest money to-day in but if money can come only from outside more remunerative investments than Govern wurces, where does the Treasurer contem ment loans. Those means of investment were plate getting his loan money~ The Com not offering a few years ago, and that is the monwealth, by waving a magic wand, cannot reason why money is not being subscribed to raise this money and although the States Commonwealth loans. It is necessary to limit have criticised the Commonwealth Govern our loan raisings sommvhat, and it is neces ment they have not suggested ways and sary also to steer a middle course in regard means of raising the money. to interest rates. The people are not all Mr. Walsh: In other words, if a war dumb; they know perfectly \Yell that they broke out tomorrow you would have no can do better by putting their money in other money. forms of investment than Commonwealth loans. That is the reason why these loans Mr. ~IULLER: I would not say that. I have not been subscribed. Let the Loan cannot help thinking when I hear an irre Council agree to increase interest rates to sponsible statement like that, ~ha~ the person something like the level of other investments who makes it has no realisation of the mu! you will see what 1vill happen. I am not economy of the country. sa:ving that there is a shortage of money in In time of war we simply have to defend the. pockets of the people. I agree that" the sanngs banks and other financial institutions our country. have ample funds, and they are investing l\Ir. Walsh: Where do you get the money them, but the:· are investing them to greater in time of war 1 advantage than they could in this 3:f per cent. loan. lUr. JliULLER: We mortgage everything we have. Jllr. Walsh: In other words you are arguing that the farmer should pay a higher JUr. Walsh: And you have nothing to rate of interest. mortgage now I . Jlir. l\IU~LER: The farmer is not object JUr. 1\IULLER: Peace-time economy is mg to tlus sort of thing. The farmer is a dificrcut from 11·ar-time economy but the I' l\Ir, ~IULLER: There is no humping of not be found for developmental purposes r your swag today. The 'l'rcrrsurer 's Yicw of That is the leftish economics enunciated and the economy of this country is far below espoused by people who have a very limited what I expected it to be. I am disappointed knowledge of finance. The Treasurer ~eeks that he phoulcl make that statement, beca• the tax reimbursement last year among the approved for the State's programme has been States, with the result-and the Leader of raised by the Commonwealth Government. the Opposition knows this-that Queensland Is not that a clear indication that the public got £500,000 less for this :financial year than have lost confidence~ I am only hoping that it would have got if the Menzies Government they will contribute to the present Security had adopted the same practice as the Loan, irrespective of the policy o.f the Chifiey Labour Government. (Opposition present Government in power. interjections.) lir. Nicklin: Do you say you are not Let me tell my story. On the other hand, going to get your loan allocations this the Victorian Government got £1,300,000 year~ more than they would have got if the formula had been applied to that special Mr. W ALSH: I say emphatically in allocation. reply to the Leader of the Opposition that less than half the programme approved for lir. Hiley: Why are they trying to get the States will be raised by the Common uniform taxation~ wealth Government by way of loan. lir. W ALSH: The hon. member for }Ir. Nicklin: But you are going to get Coorparoo asks, "Why are they trying to get your money. uniform taxation~'' The Premier knows that at the last Loan Council meeting there Mr. WALSH: The Leader of the Opposi was never any offer on the part of the tion is trying to tell hon. members that the Commonwealth to return taxation powers to Federal Government have budgeted for the States. £114,000,000 and that they are going to underwrite certain of the State's loan-works Mr. Sparkes: Do you want it back? programmes and will regard that as part of Mr. WALSH: Yes. the raisings and so make up the deficiency. That is conceded. }Ir. Sparkes: That is what you think? ~Ir. Nicklin: Did they not tell you at }Ir. W ALSH: I emphasise that the the Loan Council meeting that they could not Premier of Victoria, the Country Party raise that money~ Leader, Mr. McDonald, said, ''Give us the chance of getting our powers back. If you lUr. W ALSH: Let us come to that point. give them to Victoria we shall get £50,000,000 \V e want to know why they cannot raise the more than we are getting from the Com money. \Ve will concede that the Federal monwealth at the same rate of tax applicable Government have budgeted for £114,000,000 prior to the introduction of uniform taxation. as part of the loan raisings for the States for this financial year. I indicated when pre· Mr. Decker: What is Queensland senting my Financial Statement last year that getting~ nccording to the financial authorities it was lir. WALSH: I have told the hon. mem more likely to be a surplus of £250,000,000 ber that as soon as his party got into power and I emphasised the point that they were it put its hands in our pockets and robbed taxing the workers of this country to produce Queensland in order to feed South Australia, that surplus so as to make it available in the Western Australia, and] the other States. way in which they are. There is not the slightest doubt about that. Mr. Nicklin: They are taxing the workers If the Commonwealth Government are going of Australia to give you your money'? to pursue their policy of restricting financial credit there must be some impediment to the ~Ir. W ALSH: They are taxing the raising of loans. Nobody knows that better workers of Australia, whether it is by excise than the hon. member for Toowong and the on beer, tobacco or matches or a tax on the hon. member for Coorparoo. kid dies' ice-cream, to obtain revenue, and Mr. Hiley: That will be right. they are going to finance our works pro gmnune out of that money. Itir. WALSH: You agree with that? Hon. members opposite ask why they cannot Mr. Hiley: That will be dead right. raise the money. That is what I want to know. When we find that the aggregate }Ir. W ALSH: As long as that policy increso in trading banks and savings bank operates, obviously the Common~wealth will deposits in the last two years is £621,206,000, not be able to raise the amount of loan we are justified in asking why that money money required to satisfy the States' works has not been invested. Is it not obvious again programme. The hon. member for Fassifern that the people have lost confidence in the referred to the approved loan programme for present Federal GovernmenU the whole of Australia, £225,000,000. He read it all from paper but I have it in my The L€ader of the Opposition tried to make head. Then the hon. member proceeded to out that loans floated during the Labour quote the local government and semi-govern Government's period of office in the Federal mental borrowings that were approved sphere were under-subscribed. \iVith the throughout Australia. He brought the figure exception of the £90,000,000 I mentioned in up to £321,000,000. It does not matter what March, 1946, I challenge the hon. gentleman the Federal Government h:we approved of. to mention one loan that was under-sub The fact is that although we have only scribed in the period I mentioned. approximately three months of this financhtl ~Ir. Hiley: This afternoon you said that year to go, less than half the amount none had been under-subscribed. Government Loan Bill. [1 APRIL.] Government Loan Bill. 2133 JUr. WALSH: I did nothing of the sort. lUr. W ALSH: I have indicated the way in which the Commonwealth does out-vote the lUr. Hiley: Yes, you did. States. I said last year that the money made lUr. W ALSH: I beg the hon. member's available to South Australia finally worked pardon. I have been quite clear in my out a.t £6 a head more than was paid to this thoughts at all times that the aggregate loans State by the Commonwealth. Western raised over the period were £820,000,000, that Australia received £12 a head more than the over-subscription was £66,000,000, repre what 1vas paid to Queensland, taking ~ll senting about 8.14 per cent., and that the grants into consideration, and oven Tasmama, onlv loan under-subscribed was the despite the hon. member for Fassifern 's £9o:ooo,ooo loan in October, 1946, which was remarks, got a higher amount proportionately under-subscribed to the extent of £2,500,000. than Queensland. Mr. Nicklin: Qualify it a bit more. Itir. Hiley: That is quite right, but you Western Australia is the only State that got forgot that this afternoon. more per head than Queensla.nd. lllr. WALSH: I did not forget it. The Mr. W AL,SH: That shows that the fact remains that the amount I have given Leader of the Opposition handles facts and ns being the aggregate increased bank figures carelessly, because he will find that deposits is disclosed in the return for the the figme for Queensland was £11 17s. That period ending 30 June, 1!J51. firyure has not altered. The final figure on If I come to the last two loans floated, all Commonwealth allocations was £17-odd for we find that in August of last year a South Australia and £23 for Western £40,000,000 loan was raised by the Common Australia. The hon. member cannot get away wealth for and on behalf of the various from that. States. It was undersubscribed to the extent Another suggestion of hon. members of £7,000,000. The loan of £40,000,000 opposite \vas that which was made a.bout floated in December, 1951 was oversubscribed drought relief. It is true that the expcnd1ture by only £300,000-odd. Hon. members opposite of moneys raised \1-ill have the effect of can see that loans floated under a Labour impressing the investor in Commonwealth Government at a low rate of interest were loans as to \l·hether they will be made substantially oversubscribed but under the m-ailable for drought relief. I emphasise the present Federal Government, with increased fact that tbis is the onl; State in Austraha, interest rates, there does not seem to be any that has a Drought Relief to Primary Pro certainty that we shall get our money by way ducers Act. Lot me impress that on the of loan raisings. Lender of the Opposition. The Commonwealth Itlr. Low interjected. Govennnent are in no •vay responsible, despite what Sir Arthur Fadden said in the lUr. W ALSH: The hon. member for Coo week-end Press, for the amount that has been room is obviously very ignorant of the allocated from loan funds for the purpose financial policy of this country, for the reason of clrouo·ht relief in this State. We have that he must know that loan raisings are allocated" that amount out of the approved completely under the jurisdiction of the Loan loan works programme of £23,321,000, and Council and do not depend upon the if we make that amount available for drought generosity of the Commonwealth Government. relief it means that we have to cut other In case anyone should misunderstand the loan ~xpenditure accordingly. No thanks are remarks made by the hon. member for due to the Commonwealth Government for Fassifern tonight, let me say again that the that. Commonwealth Government have two repre lUr. Nicklin: Why not accept the Com sentatives on the Loan Council, plus their monwealth Government's offer; casting vote, and by the time they are. able ~Ir. WALSH: We are accepting the Com to hand out a little to South Australia, a monwealth Government's offer. The Leader little to Tasmania and a little to Western of the Opposition should not get that idea Australia, they have three more votes. into his head. Let him first understaJld Itlr. llfuller: How many have the States \vhat the Commonwealth Government's offer got? is. JUr. W ALSH: Apparently the hon. member Mr. :illuller: It is a grant. Yours is a for Fassifern, in the years he has been a loan. member of this Assembly, does not know that Mr. WALSH: All that the Commonwealth there are six States in Australia and at the Government intend to do is to give the :State Loan Council there is one representative from pound fm pound on the losses incurred. It each State. The last Loan Council met with might be 20 or 25 years b~fore we can indicate a view to helping local authorities raise their \vhat losses have been mcuned, after con loan funds and it was at the instigation of sidering the repayments that are made fro::n the Premier of this State that the Loan time to time by the fanners concerned. 1\ o Council met and we found that the Common grant is macle by the Commonwealth Govern wealth Government were not prepared to help ment as a clirect grant for the purpose of in loan raisings. drought relief. JUr. lUuller: The point is that the Com Itlr. Pizzey: You ask and find out. monwealth cannot out-vote the States and you are trying to convey the impression that :illr. W ALSH: The hon. member for Isis, it can. in all his innocence, comes in now. Surely 2134 Government Loan Bill. (ASSEMBLY.] Questions. he realises that the Premier has been in touch with the Prime Minister and has all the correspondence on the matter~ \Ve have submitted the proposals to the Prime Minister through the Premier. Mr. Gair: I dealt with that in answer to a question by the hon. member for Roma. Mr. WALSH: The Premier has dealt 1Yith the matter in answer to a question by the hon. member for Roma. All this talk in the Press and over the air, that substantial amounts arc being made available by way of grant from the Common wealth Government, does not work out a,; far as this State is concerned. If anybody has that idea in his head, he can get it out. \Ve have received no money whatever from the Commonwealth Government to help in drought relief in the way that this Government have helped the farmers of this State. There is nothing more I want to say at this stage, much as I should like to deal with many other matters. I think that I have replied fully to all the points that have teen raised by hon. members opposite. Mr. All pass: There is one question you have not answered. Will you join with Victoria in contesting the validity of uniform taxation f Mr. SPEAKER: Order! That does not come within the scope covered by the principles of this Bill. lUr. WALSH: There is a right and a proper place for Ministers to answer questions, but I should like to say that this Government were a party to the action that was taken before the High Court of Aus tralia to challenge the Commonwealth Gov ernment's uniform taxing powers. I have not the slightest dQubt whatever that the matter raised by the hon. member will be seriously considered in due course by the Premier and the Cabinet. It may be to the benefit of Queensland if we had our taxing powers returned. We have always been able to claim the highest percentage of employed, the highest industrial standards, the lowest cost of living and the shortest working hours of any State in Australia. If we could get all those things when 1Ye had our own taxing powers, there is no reason why we should not continue to do so. The Premier has already discussed this matter with me, and I think his fight at the next Loan Council meeting will be the toughest fight that has been put up by a Premier from this State since 1932. Motion (Mr. Walsh) agreed to. COMMITTEE. (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Farrc1l, Maryborough, in the chair.) Clauses 1 to 11, both inclusive, and preamble, as read, agreed to. Bill reported, without amendment. THIRD READING. Bill, on motion of Mr. Walsh, read a third time. House adjourned at 10.4 p.m.