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DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Second Session - Thirty-Eighth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LV No. 38A - 10 a.m., Thursday, May 13, 2004 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa Seine River N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 2069 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, May 13, 2004 The House met at 10 a.m. that this is a problem for them. We have heard in a lot of instances where individuals either had to go PRAYERS and take out a second mortgage, had to go borrow money to be able to facilitate a sudden illness. In ORDERS OF THE DAY some instances, we heard cases of a loved one had passed away, whether it was an emergency house PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS repair or if it was a vehicle, and as we know, the first 10 years of retirement are the first 10 heaviest draws Mr. Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House on a person's pension and thereafter it goes down on Leader): Mr. Speaker, I would ask you to canvass a sliding scale. the House and see if there is leave to deal with Bill 212 this morning. * (10:05) Mr. Speaker: Is there leave to deal with Bill 212? So the first 10 years tend to be difficult. That is [Agreed] when there is a need for that money and yet the most they were allowed was 6 percent. In fact, there is one SECOND READINGS–PUBLIC BILLS individual, John Klassen, who has gone on the record on numerous occasions, raised the issue with the Bill 212–The Pension Freedom Act Premier (Mr. Doer) outside, saying that he would (Pension Benefits Act Amended) have to live a little bit more than 120 years before he would be able to draw out his entire pension. Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Portage la Prairie We know that that is not reasonable. In fact it is (Mr. Faurschou), that Bill 212, The Pension Freedom a punishment for those individuals who have taken a Act (Pension Benefits Act Amended), be now read a lot of time, sat down and looked at what their needs second time and be referred to a committee of this will be when they retire. There is a misnomer about House. all this. You are allowed to invest your own money in a defined contribution plan, which means that you Motion presented. put the money in and you decide where to invest it. But then, upon retirement, you have no say in how Mr. Schuler: It brings me great pleasure to put a few much money you are allowed to take out. In other comments on the record in regard to Bill 212, The words, you are qualified to take care of all the Pension Freedom Act, a bill that is long overdue in investments, but you are just not allowed to touch coming, a necessary bill that deals with an issue that more than 6 percent a year after that. has been a concern to many seniors in our province. It is an issue that has been developing over the years Bill 212, The Pension Freedom Act, deals with as people start to head into their retirement years and that situation. We believe it is an idea a long time in find out that, if they are in a defined contribution coming and we know that it has a lot of support plan, upon retirement they are allowed to take 6 across Manitoba and we believe it has a lot of percent of their pension per year. There are very few support in this Chamber. I believe and certainly my avenues to get any further money out. I believe they leader, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Murray), are allowed one or two emergency draws of a little and my fellow colleagues believe it is important to bit more than 6 percent, but basically their money is debate it here in this Legislature. But even more locked in. important is that this bill go to committee and we give all of those Manitobans who are affected an Over the last couple of years, we have been opportunity to come forward. Let us hear the debate. approached by many seniors, thousands, whether through e-mail, whether it be by letter, by phone call, The Premier has quoted all kinds of sources to and certainly having met them have indicated to us the contrary of this bill. Let us hear them. Let us 2070 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 13, 2004 have them come out and make their case because this opportunity to have this issue brought forward to my is an important issue. Saskatchewan has moved attention by Mr. Peter Long and Sabina Long, Mr. ahead on it; Alberta and British Columbia are Speaker, two constituents of mine who referenced supposed to move ahead on it. If we do not deal with the Saskatchewan legislation that was a couple of this, Manitobans before they are going to retire will years ago. I understand that it was introduced in the move to other jurisdictions, retire there and then free Legislature by an NDP government. up their pension. Again it is just a loss to Manitoba, not just in population but in tax dollars afterwards The Saskatchewan Party, I believe, supported it when those monies are withdrawn. and it went through very quickly with a few people speaking on it, but it passed through their legislature I would encourage this House to have a good very, very quickly. look at the bill. It is time to pass this legislation; it is long overdue. Let us have a debate in this House. I * (10:10) know members opposite in the NDP caucus are waiting to get up and speak, so I will keep my I would hope that we should move this to comments short. Let us have a debate on this and let committee as soon as we possibly can because I us move it on to committee and see what Manitobans think that Manitobans want this to go through, and it have to say about this. is an opportunity for the public, particularly those seniors who are affected by locked-in pensions, to Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official have the ability to come forward and express their Opposition): I would like to put a few words on the support for The Pension Freedom Act. record, obviously, in support of, I believe, a very important bill, Bill 212, The Pension Freedom Act Amending our act would do two things. It would that was introduced to this House by the honourable amend the current Pension Benefits Act to enable a Member for Springfield (Mr. Schuler). person to replace a pension benefit with a registered retirement savings plan or a registered retirement I believe that it is a very important bill and I income fund that is not locked in. It would also hope that the Government will agree to support this provide that a person who elects to transfer their bill because, Mr. Speaker, I think it really sets out a pension benefits to a life-income fund or other principle of what we do as legislators in this House. prescribed arrangement may subsequently choose to Regardless of what political stripe is the government make withdrawals of money from that fund or of the day, there is always a belief that you bring arrangement.
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