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y the age of 7, john gummer knew that Born at the start of World War II, the son of a he needed to be a leader in public life—to Church of England priest, he recalls a household Rt. Hon. John Gummer at the Royal Geo- defend the colors of train carriages. with few luxuries but a supportive and happy family. graphic Society in 1997. “I distinctly remember arguing with my “The one thing we weren’t allowed to be was bored. Formerly a Member Bfather about the nationalization of the rail- If you said, ‘I’m bored,’ then you’d be in trouble. The of Parliament, he was ways,” he told the Brunswick Review. “I believed world was far too interesting ever to be bored in.” appointed to the House of Lords in 2010. that if you had a national railway, you would lose That tireless curiosity remains with him as he pre- the diversity of shapes and colors of coaches from pares to step down as CCC chairman in a year and a all the different companies. That would be a shame. half. “I have no intention of retiring because I don’t I remember thinking, ‘Well, somebody’s got to do think I know how to do that,” Lord Deben says. “But something about that.’” I shall go on doing this job. And when I’ve done it, Now 81, he is Baron Deben and has dedicated his I’ll do something else.” entire career to public service, including as a Mem- The “job” as he sees it, is mobilizing action to ber of Parliament, Conservative Party Chairman, combat global warming. and Secretary of State for the Environment in John “Climate change isn’t waiting for us,” he says. Major’s cabinet. In 1997, he founded Sancroft, a cor- porate responsibility consultancy and in 2010 he was As founder of Sancroft, you have seen the evolu- made a Life Peer in the House of Lords. Instrumental tion of corporate culture first hand. Do you see in the passage of the Environment Act of 1995 and the past year as an important inflection point? the 2008 Climate Change Act, in 2012, he was named I’m always worried about inflection points, because Chairman of the independent Committee on Cli- there’s too much prognostication in that. But I’ve mate Change, which advises the UK government. As certainly seen a huge change in people’s attitudes. such, Lord Deben is responsible for policy recom- When we started 23 years ago, you had to fight mendations that guide the UK government on its hard for people to understand that ESG actually legally binding target to be net zero by 2050. made companies profitable, improved manage- He cites Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring, her seminal ment, and avoided costs. In those days, you had to 1962 book on the dangers of pollution, as a major fight right from the beginning. Thankfully, that has influence on his leadership on the environment. He changed over the years. is also a religious man, a Catholic who sees his faith Last year, as the world ground to a halt with the as tightly woven with his social calling. pandemic, ESG and climate rapidly rose to the top lord deben, Chairman of the UK’s powerful Committee on The ENVIRONMENT Climate Change, of the political and board agenda. Now, corporates talks about chart- One of those risks is climate change. It made come banging on our door. That’s the difference; ing the course management realize that their supply chains were they’re coming to us. It’s not something we ever of business and maybe more fragile. They didn’t have anything like expected before. society toward the elbow room they thought they had. That has net zero, and a certainly come home to people and will continue With the pandemic possibly receding, are we at healthy planet. to affect them even after the pandemic has receded. risk of fading back into business as usual? By Brunswick’s We used to get the bulk of our salads in Britain I don’t think business as usual is “as usual.” That’s from Spain and other southern countries. Today, it’s UK Director for really what the change has been. We used to have increasingly difficult because of water scarcity. And ESG on our risk register—pandemic, climate Energy Transi- it’s getting hotter. When you think about Britain, change—and people would go through them and tion charles you think about rainy days. Where I live, in the east tick them off, and say, “Yes, well, they are impor- malissard. of England, is now internationally called a semi- tant,” and then get on with the things they really arid zone. We have just opened up the old Victorian thought were important—which were the imme- system of roof collection of our water in order to be diate risks. The pandemic has revealed risks which able to have the water we need for our vegetables, people have not taken seriously before. and our garden, and the rest. BAR1 ObrunswickN review · issue 21 · 2021 brunswick review · issue 21 · 2021 2 LORD DEBEN Do you find that there’s any tension between is going to demand of them, and that they’ve got to These are some of the issues COP26 will need to your public role with the Committee on Climate get to net zero. Their investors have seen that as well, address. But I am more optimistic now than I was Change and your advisory work? and have begun to understand what stranded assets a year ago. After COP, assuming it’s a success, the No, because we are very, very clear about the division. really could mean to their portfolio. Prime Minister will need to be clear that it is not the I don’t advise any fossil fuel company. I’ve ceased to Sensible companies have understood that it’s bet- end of the process but a new beginning—not just be the chairman of an offshore wind group. The ter to be ahead of government and decide in their constantly reminding people of what a success it Climate Change Committee comes first. What I do own time what they’re going to do to meet what was. You can’t let up. there is more important. are obviously going to be regulatory changes. If you That said, it is also very important for the Com- seize the moment, you can do it according to your You’re known as a very compelling storyteller. mittee to have real world experience. It always bases timetable. And it’s likely to be significantly cheaper. What kind of a role does that play in your com- its judgments on the science, and never asks people munication style? to do things that they couldn’t do. In order to do Is the UK offering effective global leadership? Or I’m very keen to be able to explain the issues of cli- both, it has to have a real understanding of how are you operating in a bubble? mate change in a way which everyone can under- the real world works. If it doesn’t, then government No, it’s effective. Until very recently, when we left stand. This is why I banned the use of technical lan- won’t accept its recommendations. This conserva- “SENSIBLE the European Union, we’d been leaders there. And “WHAT REALLY guage in the Climate Change Committee. A kilowatt tive government has accepted all the recommenda- COMPANIES HAVE frankly, we’re going to have to find a way of con- hour, for example—I can’t feel it, or touch it, or see it. tions of our sixth Carbon Budget (78% emissions tinuing to work with our EU neighbors in spite of STRUCK ME MORE And therefore, it doesn’t mean anything. But if you reduction by 2035 compared to 1990). All six bud- UNDERSTOOD this decision. But all around the world, countries THAN ANYTHING talk about people’s bills and say they have dropped gets proposed have been accepted by successive UK THAT IT’S BETTER are emulating and copying our approach. I am by 9%, people begin to relate to the matter. governments, whatever their kind and color. I’m pleased to see a growing number of climate change ELSE IS AN In the old days, when I had to convince colleagues sure we couldn’t have done that if there wasn’t a very TO BE AHEAD OF committees operating in different jurisdictions, INSIGHT FROM that climate change was a reality, I’d talk about gar- good dose of realism embedded in the ambition. GOVERNMENT and very much based on our model. Our commit- dens. I had found that many climate skeptics were ment to net zero, which is now legally binding in education to training, to tax and trade agreements. THE POPE’S also gardeners—and they knew that their spring Is there disagreement between the CCC and the AND DECIDE IN the UK, has also been followed by many countries From the way we build new schools and hospitals ENCYCLICAL started 17 days earlier and that the rain came down UK government over how the policy is written? THEIR OWN TIME around the world. to the policies that regulate the way we shop and in torrents rather than in a soft, refreshing sprinkle. Not really. The policy that the government has put The United States position is hugely important travel. Governments must embed net zero thinking LAUDATO SI Once you started talking about that, they began to forward is very close to what we have proposed.

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