(15 DECEMBER, 1914.] 227 Hon. D. G. Gawler: No. ltoislAItive Eseenblp, Hon. Sir E. H. Wittenooin: It is per- Tuesday, 15th'Decemnber, 1914. missive, not mandatory. The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Every year dozens of persons are ar- Papers presented ...... 22 rested and charged with being of un- Agroewent With the Austrolia Waes:~opedWan Comnpany...... 227 sound mind, and, if the doctors were to be Electoral Departmect...... 228 Urgency, Motion: Psaling Industry at Broome m2 called in every ease, the expense would Questione: University Students...... 265 Works Dept., Ftoad Constuction, BuIIvIo~k 206 be heavy. Mr. Gawler's amendment, Mlining Leases. Golden Mile, renewal ...... 267 however, I consider quite reasonable. If Financial Statement...... " Bills- Trades Disputes, n...... 207 a man is in a condition to say that he Grain and Foodstuff, Coca...... 207 desires to have the doctors called for the purpose of cross-examination, then it is a pretty fair indication that the man The SPEAKER took the Chair at 4.30 is not of unsound mind. p.m., and read prayers. Hon. J. F. CULLEN: I should cer- tainly have asked the Committee to re- ject the entire clause but for the cir- cumstance that then the Bill would not PAPERS PRESENTED. accomplish what the Minister desires, namiely to prevent a crop of litigation. By the Minister for Works: 1, Regula- As amended, the clause will meet that tions, under the Workers' Homes Acts, difficulty, and also meet the intention i9.11, 1912, and 1914. 2, Report of Public of the Minister, and, further, meet Works Department for the year ended pretty fairly what I desire. 30th June, 1914. Amendment put and passed; the clause as amended agreed to. Clauses 5 to 10--agreed to. PAPER-PROPOSED AGREEMENT Title agreed to. WITH THE AUSTRALIA WHALING COMPANY. Bill reported with an amendment. Hon. R. H. UNDERWOOD (Honor- House adjourned 5.32 p.m. ary Minister-Pilbara) [4.37] :I beg to present a copy of a proposed agreement between the Government of Western Australia and the Australia Whaling Company, Limited, and I move-- That this paper do lie upon the Table of the House. Air. HOLJMAN (Murchison) [4.38]: Before that motion is carried, I wish to ask the Premier whether he will place upon the Table of the House the whole of the papers connected with this matter before the agreement is completed or a license is granted. The PREMIER (Hon. J. Scaddan- Brown Hill-Ivanhoe) [4.39]: Yes; if hlln members think it advisable, I will lay the whole of the papers on the Table as desired. Question put and passed. 228 228ASSEMLY.]

PAPERS-ELECTORAL DEPART- stances, I claim that the charge of in- MENT. activity and delay against me does not The ATTORNEY GENERAL (Hon. lie. T. Walker-Kanowna) [4.40]: Last Mr. SPEAKER: Order! By what Thursday evening the member for right does the Attorney General claim to Perth (Hon. J. D. Connolly) raised read that statement? a question in connection with the The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I claim laying on the Table of the House the right to put the public in full of certain papers connected with possession of the facts in relation to the the Electoral Department. I intend rolls with respect to which a charge has to lay those papers on the Table this been made. afternoon, and in addition I intend to lay Mr. SPEAKER: The Attorney Gen- on the Table a f urther paper from the eral must get the consent of the House Chief Electoral Officer which reads as to the reading of that statement. The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I follows: - understand it is with the consent of the The Hon. the Attorney General. House I am reading it. Perth District election, October 1914- M1r. SPEAKER: I have no such un- Hlon. J. D. Connolly's remarks in the derstanding. Legislative Assembly ro :-1, With fur- The ATTORNEY GENERAL: Then I ther reference to the above subject and will ask the consent of the House to my the remarks submitted to you, dated completing the reading of the statement 10th instant, I beg to furnish herewith which I have begun. the following supplementary statement: Mr. SPEAKER: Is, it the pleasure of -2, So far as Mir. Connally's complaint the House'! of delay in attending to this matter is Members: Aye. concerned, I beg to say that the marked The ATTORNEY GENERAL: The roll was not handed to me by Mr. Con- statement continues-- nally until some time after the elec- 3, With regard to Mr. Connolly's inter- tion; I am not sure of the exact date, jection that he (Mr. Cannolly) was not but would say that I obtained access to surprised that the Electoral Officer had the roll some time in the beginning of visited certain residences and found November; and I then informed Mr. people still there, I can only say that Connolly that it would not be possible in view of the fact that 156 names out to commence inquiries at once, as there of 3S9, or nearly 50 per cent, of those are always certain important matters who voted, were found npon inquiry which required the attention; of the being made to reside at the very address whole staff immediately following upon for which they appeared on the printed election day. Moreover it must be re- roll; and as these 156 names did not in membered that before commencing the one instance represent a duplication- actual inquiry it was necessary for mue such having been already eliminated to ascertain the names of the individual from the list-I cannot understand electors-out of the total number of that Mr. Connolly was not surprised 2,439 marked names-who actually at such result, as the departmental in- voted at the election. This entailed quiries in fact proved that his canvass comparing each of the 2,439 names was so inefficient and incorrect that with each of the 14 electoral rolls used half the number of electors he com- at the Perth election, which naturally plained about, and in regard to whom occupied a considerable time as it was inquiry was made, actually were found necessary to make absolutely certain to reside at the address given an the elec- that no mistakes were made in this toral roll, whilst 70 others were found respect, in order that inquiries might to reside at other addresses within the be limited to the persons who were Perth electoral district, which, accord- actually concerned. Under the cireum.- ing to his own statement, had been [15 DnasmH, 1914.129 229

thoroughly canvassed by his friends. The Premier: That is not a matter of (See Mr. Connolly's letter to me of the urgency. 7th instant.) 4, As already stated, Mr. MALE: It 'will be before I have the inquiry is proceeding and a com- finished. I would ask whether I, repre- plete statement will be submitted at a senting one of the big industries of the later stage; but the remaining stages State, have received that courtesy which are more tedious, as they entail cor- a member expects from the Premier. I respondence with country districts and noticed in last evening's paper that the inquiries through the pollice in various Premier, in reply to an interviewer, said parts of the State. (Signed) E. Sten- that the appeal made by the mayor of berg, Chief Electoral Officer. Broome to the people and the Govern- Imove- ment in regard to the position of the That these papers do lie upon the pearling industry would be considered by Table of the House. Cabinet that afternoon. I found also that Question passed; the papers ordered the Honorary Minister (Mr. Underwood) to lie upon the Table. in reply to an interviewer, made remarks very much to the same effect. Those re- marks would make it appear as if this URGENCY MOTION-PEAING wag the first time the matter bad been INDUSTRY AT BROOME. brought under the notice of the Premier Mr. SPEAKER: The member for or of Cabinet. I wvish to say to the Kimberley (Mr. Male) has notified me House and through the House, by med- that lie intends to move the adjournment ium of the Press, to the public generally, of the House in order to draw attention that such is not the case. It is within the to the crisis which has occurred in recollection of members that war broke Broome. So that the matter may be out early in August last. On the 6th placed in order, it is necessary that when August, when speaking on the second the hon. member rises to speak seven reading of the Control of Trade in War other hon. members rise in their places Time Bill, I suggested that the industry to signify their support of the motion. which I represented -would probably be Seven members having risen in their one of those hardest hit in Australia. I places, also referred to the fact that the shell Mr. MALE (Kimberley) [4.44]: In trade throughout the world was practic- moving the adjournment of the House, I ally paralysed. Although I did not know wish to state that I do so after mature at that time, I thought it was quite pos- consideration and fully realising the re- sible that before long it would be my uin- sponsibility which I am assuming at this pleasant duty to ask the Treasurer of the particular period, when Christmas is so State to come to the assistance of the near anid the time of this House is of pearlers in Broomne. On the 4th Septem- specially great value. I would not move ber I received the following telegram the adjournment of the House were not from the secretary of the Pearlers' Asso- the question to which I desire to refer ciation one of pressing urgency. But for that Committee desirous of having your fact I should not venture to delay the advice as to what practical assistance House or ask hion. members to listen to might be obtained from either State or my plaint this afternoon. For 31/2 months Commonwealth Government for the in- I have been trying unsuccessfully to get dustry. Suggest cheaper marine in- the ear of the Premier, Mly patience has surance on shell might be obtainable become exhausted, as has also the pati- under Government guarantee, also fin- ence of those whom I represent. I wish ancial assistance in direction of ad- to place their case before members, and vances on shell stored in Broome dur- I will ask members to judge between my- ing crisis thereby avoiding exception- self and the Premier, and see whether I ally heavy freight, insurance, etc. have had a fair deal. Commonwealth Bank should doubtless 230 230[ASSEMBLY.]

be iii good position make such advances. me. As the pearl era are anxiously Probably your influence would enable awaitig an early reply, I would ask Harbour and Light to provide storage you to give this matter your early and accommodation special rates and issue Favourable consideration. storage certificates acceptable to bank The letter referred to as coming from the mentioned. PigoL, Secretary Pearlers' mayor of Broome is dated the 30th Aug- Association. mist, and is as fo~ows- Mr. Bolton: They do not want much. To the Right Honourable Sir John Mr. MALE: No. On thie following Forrest,-As mayor of the town, I ask day I called at the Premier's office with you in the midst of your press of busi- a view to seeing the Premier and placing ness to read over this letter, written to this telegram before him. I wats unable you not only in your official capacity, to see him, but I left the telegram with but also as the leader of Western Aus- his secretary, and asked that gentlemian tralia. When wvar was threatening the to arrange an interiew for me. On Mon- pearl buyers ceased buying, and the day I called again. I was handed back majority of them, foreigners, left the the telegram, a copy of which had been town. Broome has no back country, made by the Premier's secretary for the and lives entirely On its pendling. The Premier, hut on that occasion I was un- pearl buyers having left, the only able to see the Premier, and no arrange- source of income remaining to Broome ment had been made for an interview. I w,,as the money to be obtained for also-I believe it was on the Tuesday- mother-of-pearl shell (generally refer- walked across this Chamber and asked red to as M.O.P. shell). The shell is the Premier if lie had received a copy of the bread and butter of the business, the telegram, and if he would grant me and the pearl is the possibility beyond an interview. He promised to do that. bread and butter, which is the lure and On the 15th September, after trying for fascination of pearling. There are in ten days to arrange an interview, and be- Broome about 110 pearling boats, ing anxious to send a reply to the tele- whose owners belong to x~tat is known gramn which I had received from the as "the combine' between Broome, Pearlers' Association, I wrote to the Aru Islands, and Thursday Island Premier as follows- pearlers to regulate or steady the price Dear Sir,-Enlosed herewvith I beg of shell. A further number of pending to hand you copy of telegram received boats--about 140--belong to owners From Broome, also copy of letter for- who have pledged themselves to deliver warded from the mayor of B~roome to the shell won by their boats to Oehse Sir John Forrest. Owing to the change of London for the 1914 and 1915 catch of Mfinistry in the Commonwealth, Sir of shell at £220 per ton of 2,224 lbs. John Forrest has handed this letter to over the scales at Broo me--cash. The me to deal with. By thle letter and pearlers in the combine are promised telegram you will see that matters in by Burns, Philp and Co., the selling Broome are very serious, and I would agents of the combine shell, an advance urge on you the necessity of assisting up to £150 per ton on the shell shipped the pearlers during the present crisis. to them. I enclose copy of the agree- This could well be done by agreeing to ment concerning the "combine." make advances against mother-of-pearl The Premier: Which you did not. shell stored in Broome, or by arrang- ing with the banks to make these ad- Mr. MALE: I did not enclose copies vances under Government guarantee, copies of the agreements, inasmuch as as I understand is being done in South they were not handed to me, but I pre- Africa in respect of wool, hides, etc. sume had been sent back direct to Mr. I would be pleased to discuss this mat- Clarke Hall. ter with you if you could see your way The Premier: You asked me to deal dlear to make an appointment with with them. [15 DECEMBER, 1914.) 2313

Mr. MALE: I asked you to deal with fourth largest industry in the State- the letter as I received it. The corn- an industry which while producing a munication continues- large revenue is drawn from the sea, The copies of the agreements which and is not liable to permanent diminu- I enclose are only copies made for my dion; which, furthermore, trains men to office use, but I certify them to be cor- the sea, and which, furthermore, by its rect, There are about 35 boats- pearl- 300 pearling boats ranging in the pur- ing vessels-the owners of which are suit of shell from Esmnouth Gulf to the not menmbers either of the "1combine"' or under contract to Gcbse. The posi- entrance to Cambridge Gurlf-where tion, therefore, is that, barring the war, the water becomes too muddy for pearl- Broome is on a good wicket to sell its ig-ensures; that nothing abnormal shell at from £220. From the agree- shall occur on our unoccupied N.W. ments you will see that Qebse takes half coasts without the Government hearing the "combine" shell at £225, and that of it, That it is worth -while preserv- the combine is not to sell the other half ing by some advances based on bed- under £2967 10s. at the London shell rock value-except for war. That if sales. But owing to the war, first such advances could be obtained, say, Burnis, iPhilp ceased advancing on shell, £E80 to £100 per ton, the capital, i.e., then Qebse only paid half the price on the pearling boats, can be kept from his own private half, and on his half perishing, which they would quickly do of the combine shell, and now (yester- if laid up on the beach, and the indus- day) all bank credits on shell are abso- try can be kept in a condition fit lo lutely stopped, and the man in Broome spring into life again when conditions in possession of, say, one ton of shell become normal. It should be recol- cannot raise 6d. on it. The position lected that Broome is by far the largest is such that thd coloured men, the town in the N.W., and that its white crews of the boats, have agreed to leave population is increasing faster than is their wvages in abeyance until tbe the white population of any other town trouble is over, provided their masters in Northern Australia--outside per- -- the pearlers-will keep them on their haps of Queensland, of which I have no boats and feed them. In all the above information-and that it has pre- statements I am speaking of my own viously, in 1.903, pulled through on a knowledge, and the statements are A- temporary fall of shell to the price of solutely reliable, If the owners can ob- about £110. Could not the existiag tain something like £100 per ton on baiiks, or the Commonwealth Bank, be their shell, they p~an keep their boats auithorised to advance up to £E100, or afloat and prevent laying them uip, whatever they think is the bed-rock and rotting them on the beach. And at price of shell after the war is over, or this point I ask your advice and assist- cannot some other assistance be given ance: 1, We are producing a commodity to this Qutpost to keep it alive during- which in the world's markets is never the crisis. Be it plainly understood that worth less than £100 per ton, except a we do not ask for gifts, wve only ask for few small parcels sold in 1903, on a loans on the bed-rock value of our pro- glut, for £S0 odd. 2, We are too far duict. I need scarcely say that Broome is away from any other inhabited dis- a much more important distant and for- trict for our women and children to gotten centre than is generally thought get a-way from Broome. 3, We are of. By reference to the post office starving in the midst of plenty-having money order returns and to the Cus- even now-it being the hest part of the toms returns this can be easily pearling year-about £30,000 worth of ascertained. It has an abnor- shell in the towli. In these circum- mally large exchange business, stances, I beg respectfully to suggest and one bank has four clerks be- that, as Broome represents about the sides the manager, end the other has 232 232(ASSEMBLY.]

two clerks besides the manager. 1f many years to collect my small staff the Commonwealth hank came here and also because I do not believe in under the present circumstances and throwing people out of employment at a crisis wvhen we should all row in the prepared to advance on the bedrock same boat and pull together, You will (except for war) price of shell,' it see, therefore, that I am not pleading would at once secure a lucrative busi- for myself but for the town, and I ness, I was instrumental in assisting most earnestly ask of you assistance to obtain a branch of the Western and, out of your great experience, for Australian Bank here, and that bank advice. Your obedient servant (Signed) wore than paid its expenses during W. Clarke Hall, mayor of Broomec. the first six months of its starting busi- Mr. Bolton: Did he get it from Sir ness here. It may be of service to Johnq the town if you, when reading over Mr. MALE: He did not get it from this letter, know that I am not now, Sir John for the simple reason that Sir nor have I ever been interested in John did not have the power to give it, pearling, either as owner or as mort- the Federal elections having altered the gagee. I am simply a solicitor who has had the sense to keep out of a state of affairs in the Federal House. The Premier: That does not affect business he does not understand, i.e., pearning, and that I bave been in him giving advice, Broomie for 12 years and have been Mr. MALE: It affects him giving as- mayor sistance. for five (1905-8, 1913, 1914),' whenever in fact they want the town The Premier: Has he attempted to clearing of typhoid and they cannot move the Federal House to get that as- secure anybody else who will prose- sistanceT Do you remember the day you cute all offenders against health. It is banded me the letter? difficult, even to myself, to realise the Air. MALE: Yes, the 15th Septem- approaching crisis and how intense it her. -must become. The loose cash of the The Premier: The date of the letter inhabitants is not yet expended; but is 30th August, and you handed it to me when it is expended I do not know when the elections were over. what is going to happen because there 11r. MALE: I handed it to you im- is no reserve. The pearlers spend their mediately I got it. I think that commnon money as fast as they have made it. courtesy at least demanded some ack- Broome, nowadays, is not a penning nowledgment of my letter, but none was camp, but a town with a due propor- forthcoming. ion of women and children. My wife The Premier: That is not correct. and baby are away in Port Darwin Mr. MALE: I called again, but was with my parents-in-law, I having unable to see the Premier. On the 19th accompanied them on a holiday abroad September I followed my first letter up which was suddenly curtailed on the with another. I wrote on the 19th Sep- news of war which brought me back temiber to the Premier as follows : to Broome instead of proceeding to On the 5th September I left at your Java. I mention this to show how for- office for your perusal a telegram tunate, comparatively, my own posi- received from Broome re necessity tion is. As an illustration of how or doing something to assist pearlers, seriously I regard the situation, I have owing to crisis which has arisen, reduced my house expenses to 24s. a occasioned by the war. On the week plus, of course, rates and repairs, 15th September I wrote you enclosing the freehold being mine and my fam- a copy of previous telegram, also copy ily being away. My office salaries I of letter from the mayor of Broome, have not reduced and they amount to addressed to the Federal Colonial £35 per month bath because it has taken Treasurer. I am again in receipt of [15 flaonraza, 1914.]23 233

a telegram from Broome, asking what With reference to your letter of the is being done to assist them. As the 19th instant and previous correspond- matter is one of urgency, I would ence therein mentioned on the subject again appeal to you to give this tele- of necessity for assisting pealers at this gram and letter your early considera- crisis, I have to inform you that the dion, so that I may be able to let them representations made have been under know that your Government is pre- consideration with a view to endeav- pared to assist them. oiring to see how tbe difficulty can be That was on the 19th September. On met, I will communicate with you again the 24th September I happened to call at on the matter as soon as possible. I the Colonial Secretary's office on some might point out that the copy of letter matter appertaining to his department, sent to Sir John Forrest from the and whilst there presumably we must mayor of Broome was incomplete, as have touched on the question of pearling the wnrieulars supplied by -way of en- for I told the Colonial Secretary what I closure thereto were not attached. It thought of his Premier. I did not mince is returned herewith, as you may re- matters, but 'I told him I had appealed q~uire it for future use. for an interview from the 5th Septem- The Premier is quite correct there. The ber. I had written him letters but I had enclosures referred to were not attached failed to get an answer. He told me, inasmuch as I did not receive them. knowing the Premier as he did, that he The Premier: You could easily have thought there was some mistake? got a copy of them. The Premier: Who said that? Mr. MALE: T could, but the Premier Mr. MALE : The Colonial Secretary nevfr asked for them. said he thought there was some mistake. The Premier: I am not going to beg I said "there is no mistake." The fact to you for these things. remained I had endeavoured to see the Ifr. M&LE: On the 28th September I Premier and had failed. I saw the hon. received a letter from the Premier dated member when he was sitting in his seat the 24th September, reading as follows-- in the House, and I walked across the With further reference to the cor- Chamber, and he agreed to an interview, respondence which has passed relating hut he failed to keep that interview. I to the present position of the pearling have written twvice, and I have received industry, I have to inform you that con- no acknowledgment of either letter. sideration has been given to the matter The Premier: That is not correct. but it is thought that representations should first be made to the Federal Mr. MALE: It is correct. Government -with a view to seeing The Premier: I have a copy here of whether they are prepared to adopt the the reply. suggestion contained in the second Mr. MALE : At that particular time paragraph of your letter of the 15th I had not received any acknowledgment. instant? and either make advances The Colonial Secretary sympathised against the MN.O.P. shell stored in with me, and said, "There must be some Broome or guarantee some bank who mistake. I shall be seeing the Premier may he willing to undertake such to-day and I will refer the matter to business. The Federal Government him, " and he made a note about it- hare given an assurance that they will Evidently he did see the Premier. I assist the financial institutions and the reached my private house that afternoon banks so that the industries of the Com- at 5 o'clock and found the acknowledg- monwealth may not suffer more than is ment from, the Premier awaiting me. The possible through the crisis occasioned acknowledgment is dated 21st Septem- by the war, and I think this is a case ber. It was posted that afternoon, the in point. Tt certainly appears to me 24th, and received by mae that afternoon, to be a matter which the Common- the 24th, and it is as follows : wealth should he in a better position to 234 [ASSEMBLY.]

engineer than the State, and I would A reply respecting this might be of strongly recommend that action be some assistance to the pearler. I have taken in the direction indicated. been patiently waiting for nearly four After waiting from the 5th September weeks to give the pearlers some answer to the 28th, I am coolly informed by the and now have nothing to give them. I Premier that as far as the State Govern- leave in a few days for Broome, and ment are concerned it is a matter for regret to find that I have no offers or Federal consideration, and to make the suggestion of assistance to convey to sting just a trifle more bitter-what I them from you. may call rubbing it in-the Premier takes There was nothing left then for me to occasion to add a footnote of his own:- do but to pass on a copy of the whole of Eon. H. Gregory is the member for the correspondence to Mr. Gregory, our the district. Federal member, which I did. Mr. Bolton: That is not a sting. Mr. Bolton: And what did you get? Mr. MALE: It is a sting, and a sling Mr. MALE: I got courtesy; I got that the Premier himself felt when the civility; I got consideration. result of the election was known. The Premier Then what are you Mr. Bolton: You felt the sting. worrying me for if you got all this? Mr. MALE: It did sting, and I resent Mr. MALE: I got all that, which is the insult. To this letter I replied as something. I am pleased to say that follows: although the Federal Government did not I have to acknowledge receipt of see their way to assist the pearling in- your favour redated September 21st dustry as a separate industry, owing to posted and delivered to me on the 24th the fact that they were providing funds and redated and delivered to me on the for the various States to look after the 28th, and note that as a result of your different industries and public works, I consideration extending from Septem- did at least receive from the Federal Gov- her 5th you advise me that the mnatter ernment, through Mr. Gregory, considera- is one for Commonwealth considera- tion and courtesy and a prompt reply. tion. I would like to point out that After being turned down-and I suppose your Government according to the Hon. I might call it practically being turned the Minister for Mines have arranged dowvn - by the Premier, the next for advances to he made against the I heard of the pearling business base metals for the assistance of was on the Claremont showgrounds. I miners. Also, I understand, assistance is was down there on show day and amongst to be rendered by your Government to others I met the lion, the Colonial Secre- fanners. These people have not been tary. He came up and passed the time advised by you to appeal to the Corn- of day with me, and ehiaflingly remarked, inonwealth for assistance. I fail, there "You are a fine member to represent the fore, to understand your scanit con- pearlers; you do not seem to take the sideration of the appeal of the pearlers. slightest interest in them." I may say I My request for an interview has been received rather a shock, and I asked the absoltely ignored and the pearlers' Colonial Secretary what he meant. I said, suggestion of obtaining from your Gov- "I have done all I could in the matter. ernment storage accommodation at I have failed to get an interview with special rates and the issue of storage your Premier," and I went on to say that certificates is also ignored. I might I had received a letter from him turning point out that should the said Govern- it down, and referring me to the Federal ment see their way to assist us on the Government, I also told him that I was lines indicated this latter question of in communication with that Government storage and storage certificates would through our member. He then said, "The still be a necessary portion of the Premier has asked me to go into the mat- scheme, and I have no assurance from ter." Then I said, "Surely it was either you that you would ever agree to this. the duty of the Premier or yourself to [15 DECEMBER, 1914.]18 235 advise mue that; you were asked to go into to know what the result had been. the matter," and surely, I had a right to He told me that it had received be informed of that. I should not hare some consideration, hut had been had to pick up that information casually deferred until the following Moa- on the show grounds. That was only a day. I understand that on the 7th day or two prior to my leaving for December, the following Monday, Broome. I thanked the Colonial. Secre- the matter was again brought up in tory for his information, and I called on Cabinet. It was not received with much him before I left for Broome. He told approval, hut at the same time the pro- we he was going into the matter; that position was not altogether turned down. he would be away for a week, and that if Following that an appeal was made to anything cropped up he would send me a me by the pearlers who happened to be telegram. On my way up the coast I in Perth at that particular time-- naturally had to stop at Geraldton. Mr. Bolton: They are always in Perth. Whilst ashore there I casually met the IMr. M~ALE: To try and arrange to in- Premier in the street. We passed the trod uce them as a deputation to the Col- time of day, and he said to me-and this onial Treasurer. I called at the Premier's is the first information I got from him office to try and arrange this deputation on the question-"jIn reference to the but I met with my usual fate. I 'was un- pearling matter, I have asked the Colonial able to see the Premier himself, hut I Secretary to go into that for me." I be- received the following letter- lieve at the same time the Premier also advised me that he was conferring with With further regard to your request the Commonwealth Bank in. connection that the hon. the Premier should re- with the matter. When in Broome I ex- ceive a deputation representing the plained the matter very fully to the pearl- pearling industry, I have to advise you era. I told them exactly what had been that I mentioned this matter to Mr. done, and that I bad been passed out by Seadd-an, but as it is one which chiefly the State Premier in the first place and concerns the hon. the Colonial Secre- then referred to the Federal Government. tary, and all correspondence which has I also told them that the matter had been been received has been passed on to passed on to the Colonial Secretary for him for his consideration, Mr. Scad- consideration- At a public meeting held dan would be glad if you would kindly in Broome just prior to my going south, arrange to make .your representations the following resolution was carried- to himn. That Mr, Arthur Male, M.L.A-, mem- I rang up the Colonial Secretary for the ber for the district, he asked to en- purpose of arranging a deputation to him. deavour to arrange with the Govern- He advised me that as the matter had not ment to guarantee advances by the been absolutely turned down by Cabinet. banks to the amount of £120 per ton and would be again brought before them, against this season's m.o.p. shell stored and that as he did not think It would be in the Government goods sheds at able to give him any additional informa-. *Broome. tion other than which was already in his A copy of the resolution was wired to the pos;session, he did not think it was neces- Colonial Secretary, and he was also ad- sary to receive a deputation on the sub- vised that I was proceeding south, and ject. On the 8th of the moath, failing to would call upon him at his office. On my make any progress I wired to the muayor arrival I took the first opportunity of of Broome as follows- seeing the Colonial Secretary and of dis- I consider very little chance ob- cussing the matter with him, and he prom- taining Government guarantee hank ised to place the matter before Cabinet. advances against shell. Under these cir- I believe it was first placed before Cab- cumstances is there any danger of large inet on the 30th November- I rang up number of men being stranded and re- the Colonial Secretary the following day quiring, Government relief for neces- 236 236[ASSEMBLY.)

series of life? If so, what number do and what they had to face, and what to you consider w.ill be affected? prepare for. I myself was most anxious to prevent any The Premier: The position is all right. crisis. I was anxious too to find out Mr. MALE: A feeling of uneasiness what the actual state of affairs would naturally surrounds the whole of the be in Broome if we were turned pearling industry. down. In fact, I wished to obtain Hlon. R. H. Underwood (Honorary some information for the Colonial Minister) : Surrounds the whole world. Secretary in order to let him know Mr. MALE: It is natural too that that the position lie would have to face if the feeling of uneasiness should also be com- Government were not prepared to do municated to the men engaged in the in- something in the nature of guaranteeing dustry. advances. On the eve of the 10th a pub- Mr. E. B. Johnston: How many men lic meeting was held in Broome, and the are there? following resolution wats passed:- Mr. Mtunsie: How many white men That the people of Broome who are are there? entirely dependent on the pearling in- -Mr. MALE: And in connection with dustry view with dismay the hesita- the men employed in the pearling indus- tion of the Government in guarantee- try, let me say right here that there is ing bank advances on mother-of-pearl no port in the British Empire where you shell stored in the Government ware- can turn so many seaman loose on shore houses in the town, as without such at one time withi cheques to the extent assistance the majority of the pearlers which they have in normal times, and will be unable to pay the wages or the preserve the same amount of good order passages to Singapore of upwards of as is maintained in Broome with the few 1,000 men, the bulk of whom in a fewv police stationed there. days and the balance shortly wifl be The Premier: That is a reflection on destitute in Broome, necessitating Gov- the white races there. ernment assistance. Mr. MALE: It is not a reflection. It was also resolved that the assistance The Premier: The pearlers; hush any- of the Press should he asked to enable thing up. the needs of the pearlers and their em- Mr. MALE: I say also that I have ployees to be made known throughout lived in Broome for many years when we Australia. You will probably expect me have been faced with the same difficulties, at this particular moment to make some and we have only had one constable to slight reference to the disturbance which maintain order amongst this number of occurred in Broome the following day. men. I do not view that myself with any par- Mr. E. B. Johnston: How many men? ticular alarm, hut I do accuse the Gov- You do not give us information. ernment of being to some extent respon- Mr. MALE: I have to admit that I sible owing to their delay in coming to have failed to obtain the ear of the Pre- any decision with reference to the assist- ier. He has refused all along to grant ance of pearlers. If it was the intention mue an interview. I now appeal, not to of the Government to turn us down abso- him, but to members of this Chamber, lutely, why were they not manly enough to see that justice is done to those whom to say so wveeks agoq I represent, and through this Chamber I make also my appeal to the people of Mr. Bolton: Turn "us" downI this State. The leader of the Country Mr. MALE: Yes, I am a pearler, and party, when speaking on the Address-in- am not ashamed of it. Why were they reply the other afternoon, made refer- not manly enough to turn us down weeks% ence to the fact that every industry in ago? Why.did they not say straight out this State should receive consideration. they would not assis the pearlers? Then He referred to the fact that every mem- they would have known their position ber representing an industry in this State [15 DECmBma, 1914,]27 237 who has a knowledge of that in- to Singapore of upwards of 1,000 men, dustry, should be consulted by the Pre- the bulk of whom in a few days and mier or other responsible Minister, to see the balance shortly afterwards will be what is necessary to be done for the as- destitute in Broome necessitating Go- sistance and maintenance of that indus- vernment assistance." It was also try, and that each industry should receive resolved that the assistance of the assistance according to its relative value Press be asked to enable the dire need and importance to the State. I appeal of the people to be made known to the lender of the Country party and throughout the Commonwealth. to members of that party to assist me In a telegram to the West Aus- this afternoon in seeing that -we obtain tralian, the mayor of Broome (Mr. our fair and just rights. I appeal to my Clarke Hall), dealing with the posi- friend, the leader of the Opposition, and tion of the town and the pearling in- to the members of the Opposition to dustry generally, says -"-It was assist me this afternoon, and I also ap- pointed out at the meeting that this peal to members on the opposite side of town lives entirely hy pearling, with the Chamber to give us at least a fair 290 boats, averaging 12 tons burthen and impartial hearing and 4onsideration. and 25 feet in length each, owned by What is the position in Broome to-day? 144 separate owners, the great major- Perhaps I could not do better or explain ity of owners having one boat. These it better than by reading the appeal boats which are valued at £E600 apiece which the mayor of Broome has sent to normally, are now unsaleable, and if the Press of Western Australia, left uncared for on the mud at Mr. Carpenter: Take it as read. Broome would in a few months be un- Mr. MALE: I would he quite willing fit for solo. A skilled lot of white and to take it as read if I had the assurance coloured men, such as could not be col- of the whole of' the members of this lected again for years.. will be scat- Chamber that they had read it. tered all over the world if pearling is Mir. Carpenter: We have read it all closed down. On the average it costs right, I think. at t he en d of ea ch season -that is to say Mr. MTALE: I have not that assurance. in December-an average of £250 per Hon. R. HE1 Underwood (Honorary boat to pay off the wages for the last Mlinister): I hear that the member for season, profit and to re-engage a crew Mt. Margaret (Mr. Taylor) has not read for the next year. This money has it. always come from the working of the Mr. fleitmann: t* am very fond of boats during the previous six months, fiction. little shell being sold before June in Mr. Taylor: How many volumes? any year. This year no pearls could Mr. MALE: fn a telegram to the West be sold after July, and no shell after Australian the mayor of Broome, dealing August. There is not in the town the with the position of the town and the necessary money to pay off and ship pearling industry in the locality, says- away to Singapore the last season's At a public meeting at Broome on crews. The shell fished and to be Thursday last the following resolution fished this season and during the next was unanimously passed :-"The season (1915) has been sold in ad- people of Broome who are entirely vance to big London and New York dependent on the pearling industry, buyers at the price of £220 per ton view with dismay the hesitation of the cash on delivery at Broome, but the, Government in guaranteeing bank ad- buyers since August have declined to vances on mother-of-pearl shell stored accept delivery of or to pay for any in the Government warehouses in the more shell for the present, and legal town, as without such assistance the actions are pending to enforce the con- majority of the pearlers will be un- tracts. The town is, therefore, by the able to pay wages due to or passages inability to sell the shell just now, 238 238[ASSEMTBLY.]

some £100,000 short of its usual cash, will be in with 2,000 coloured seamen, namely, 450 tons at £220 per ton. Its in addition to the white men. Out of boats are unsaleable and its Other as- the 2,000 coloured men, not less than sets are for the momhent unsaleable. 1,000 should, in the ordinary way, be Over £100,000 of shell at ante-war shipped to Singapore during the next prices will be lying on the town. On few weeks, but it is estimated that not this the people consider that it is re- less than 1,000 of them will be asonable to ask for a Government straiided here owing to the inability of guarantee or assistance to the banks, their masters to pay their wages and which are then willing to advance their passages to Singapore, which cost £C120 per ton on the war-bound shell. £6 per man. The boats are liable under They do not ask for any gifts,' but the marine law for the wages, but the only for a guarantee in respect to boats are unsaleable. The masters have which the banks will assure any re- plenty of shell in the town, but that also sponsible inquirer that there is little is unsaleable. All the other property of actual risk of being called upon to the pearlers is unsaleable at present. pay. An amount Of £50,000 gsiLaran- Very shortly the masters will be un- teed On this basis would eniable the able even-to feed these 1,000 men, and town to meet its obligations and ship in many eases will he unable to buy away its imported labour. and admnit food for themselves and their families of a considerable propoition continu- in a very short time. The state of ing pearling. The 1909 cyclones cost affairs mneans serious trouble. Were the industry over that amount, but the there 1,000 of ourselves, instead of 1,000 coloured men, unpaid and unfed, town out of its own resource.s ma.de anyone can imagine the trouble that good its losses. The 1910 cyclone arise. We arc on cost the town over £80,000, but would immediately the point of serious troufble if the Gov- the town again made good its losses without assistance. This time erment doim4 not guarantee us, or take in the way of we have suffered no loss of that the situation in hand, description, but for the present sending up food and ships for trans- the market for shell and pearls is port. Is it not better to guarantee, in a maximum closed, although it must, of courso, of £60,000, a town which, in recent years, has twice made good shortly re-open. If we can negotiate larger amounts, than to throw the advances on our shell we can pull through without insolvency or recourse money away in gifts or charity, which would leave the town ruined and de. to charity. If we cannot, then whether has to be remembered that it likes it or not, and intensely against serted Y It brings into the our wsishes, the Government will have every Year Broome Commonwealth in hard cash in pay- to come forward with ships and stores ment for the shell and pearls which it to feed and carry away a considerable every year wins from the surrounding portion of our own population. in setts between £350,000 and half a addition to the imported seamen, mn milion. respect of each of whom the Govern. ment holds at £100 bond. Broome has Mr. O'Loghlen: How many participate no back-country or railways, nor any in that amount! town within 1,000 miles on which we Mr. MNALE: The whole Conrunonwesith. can fall back. To take us to civilisa- The report continues-- tion will cost £7 per head steerage. All It is a self-supporting community, the food but meat comes from Fremantle largest and one of the extremely few (1,200 miles) or from Singapore (2,000 such communities in our tropical Aus- miles). At present cash is required for tralia outside of Queensland. If any everything, and the stocks are not being Australian industries are being, or are replenished as usual. The 1914 season likely to be, subsidised or financed, is finishing in a few days. All the boats should not this little white outpost be [15 DEcsm, 1914.] 2393

assisted and financed, which in the re- time of war is one in which we should putedly most unhealthy part of Aus- all pull together, and, above all things, tralia contributes up to half a million should keep our business and our i- annually to Australia's income. It is, dustries in full activity. Is it not a as our papers; say, desirable, above all fair business, and also an important things, to people our empty North with national proposition that Government the white race. Should not this, the assistance on a business basis, or even white settlement in the empty North, be on a more liberal basis should be forth- preserved from collapse? The white coming on the security of ouT ware- population of Broome has increased housed shell to this important white from 160 in 10912 to close on 1,100 in outpost in the empty North with its 1914, while the coloured local popula- excellent financial records, its prosper- tion has diminished, and the number of ous past, its proved powers of recovery the imported seamen has remained from the crushing blows of the cyclones about stationary. At what enormous of 1908, 1910, and 1912, the Koom- cost could another white colony success- bana blow, and its insured future? fully establish in the empty North to At present, owing to the temporary take the place of Broome? What is closing of the shell and the pearl the total cost to the Commonwealth of market, we ame starving in the midst Port Darwin, a smaller white commu- of plenty. Were the contracts with re- nity than Broonic? Pearling is the gard to the shell of the 140 boats ful- fourth largest industry in Western filled by the still wealthy buyers in Australia and Broome is Western London and New York- Australia's third largest Customs port, The Premier: Still wealthy ! That is ranking generally in volume next to the point, Perth and Fremantle. Oar 290 boats Mr. MALE: Absolutely no point. cover and patrol the otherwise deserted The Premier: It is a big point. north-west and north coasts of Aus- Mr. MALE: The telegram continues- tralia. Our pearlers in the past largely we would not trouble our kinsmen, but established the sheep and cattle stations as things stand for the first time in our now existing in the North and North- life as a community we have to West, and thereby helped more than acknowledge. we want assistance, and anything else to people these portions we turn with confidence to our race of the interior. Our manhood is equal throughout the Commonwealth to to the Australian average, as is shown acknowledge that we deserve it. The by our success in securing twice in position is plain. Either we must be Succession the Rifle Clubs Challenge able by Government guarantee to real- Cup of the West coast, and by the ise on our own asset, and thereby fight official report now lying before me. through our own adversity as we have The Premier: They don't think much so often done before, and thereby keep of the Australian average when they con- our future safe for ourselves and for sider men from Koepang better than the Australia, or the Government must Australian. treat us as bankrupts and paupers, Mr. MALE: The telegram goes on- must send up food and ships to trans- It states that the last 20 recruits sent port our men (after paying their from Broome to the Expeditionary wages), and must transport a very Force are among the best they have considerable number of us Austra- had at the Western Australian camp at lians to some other place where they Blackboy Hill. The Broome munici- will not starve hut where they will only palitv' has been established 3.0 years. add to the present unemployed. We During the nine years ending October, place the matter before our fellow- 1913, it collected all its rates, amount- men." ing to many thousands of pounds, with That gives a very good epitome of the the exception of less than £E20. This position as it stands to-day at Broome. 240 240ASSEMB3LY]

As pointed out by the mayor, the town Mr. MINALE: The lay-up season has just is absolutely dependent on the pearning arrived and the boats are now in the industry. It has very little back country, creek idle. In normal times the men emi- a little squatting, but not to any extent, ployed on these boats would be receiving and no ruining. There are nearly 300 their wages, and a big number of them boats engaged in the industry, employing would be deported to Singapore, Ko- from six to eight men per boat. Prior to pang, or to other places from which they the war these boats were easily saleable at came, The unfortunate position is that a price uip to £600 each. Many of them to-day whilst the owners have an asset in are fitted with compressors and engines Broome in the form of shell and in the' for penrling, and were of considerably form of property they ame unable to raise more value. To-day they are practically a single Penny with which to reduce their unsaleahic and if left in the creeks or on liabilities, with which to pay off their the mud banks will very soon deteriorate men, with which to buy even food for in value and become unusable. their men. Mr. Bolton: Some of these people are The Premier: Let them send their men very wealthy. back. Mr. MALE: I am not referring to the Mr. MALE : Prior to the war, as was very wealthy men, hut when we consider pointed out by the mayor in his letter, that the average number of boats per shell was being sold for £225 per ton owner is only two-- under contract, but these contracts, owing Yr. Bolton: Average? to the war, the contractors are unable to Mr. 'YALE:-There are 144 owners,' and fulfil, and, according to the rulings of a total of 290 boats, I doubt whether you the English courts, all these contracts are can find more than one owner with over void owing to the war, and cannot be leg- six boats on the whole of the pearling ally enforced. grounds. The Premier: Who told you that? Ar. Bolton: Captain Biddies and Cap- Hon. R. H, Underwood (Honorary tain Francis. Minister) : Is Ochse's contract void? Mr. MYALE: Captain Biddies has been Mr. MTALE: Oehse's contract can be rendered void in the English courts. out of the industry for many years, YMr. Bolton: Is he not interested? Hon. R. H. Underwood (Honorary MAr. MALE: Not to my knowledge, I Minister) : Have you tested it? do not think he has the slightest interest MXr. MALE: It has been tested many in a single boat at Broome. Captain times over; not t his particular one, but Francis is interested, I believe, in either many others. three or four boats, The Premier: That is not correct. Mr. Bolton: Streeter? M1r. MALE: If the Premier knows more 'Mr. MALE: Streeter owns three boats. than the courts and legal profession in The Premier: Do not they enter into England, we must submit to his opinion. con tracts to buy shell? There are many owners in Broome, and I Mr. MALE: Sometimes. give this as an illustration that a The Premier: Then why do they not man has say four tons of shell keep their contracts? worth, in normal times, some £900, Mr. MALE: Have they ever refused? and be requires £250 or £300 to The Premier; Evidently they have or pay off his crew. But the shell is un- they would not come to us for assistance. sal eable; he is unable to realise the cash, Why do they niot buy shell? although he has the asset there in the Mr. MALE: Why should they buy form of shell and bViats. The Government shell, it is unisaleable. have been asked to coma to the rescue. The Premier: I have never been asked They have been asked to guarantee a to buy shell. bank advance of £100 per ton to assist Hon. Frank Wilson: They do not want these men to pay off their crews and tide you to buy it. them over the duration of the war. The [15 DacaxBsa, 1914.]24 241 asset is a good one; the security is a good our industries, not wiping them out. We one, arid I firmly believe that the banks should be endeavouring to keep our peo- would make the necessary advance for a ple in employment, not casting them matter of 12 months or, if necessary, un- adrift. lt the war is over. Mr. ER B. Johnston: Our white people Hon. II. H., Underwood (Honorary first. M1inister) : You will not sell it till the Mr. MALE: Most certainly, and not war is over. turn them adrift or bring them down here Mr. MALE: When the war is over, to compete in the already overflowing un- shell, like all other commodities of a simi- employed ranks of Perth. lar nature, will again become saleable. HRon. R. Hf. Underwood (Honorary The Government have not been asked to Mlinister) : They can get two meals a put up a single penny; they have been day down here. offered good security, and yet they re- Mr. MALE: We do not want to see fuse to give Broome the treatment which any of these people dra-wing on the re- it rightly deserves. lief funds of the State. It is for men I Mr. Bolton: flow much do you want, am pleading, and not for paupers asking £C50,000?~ for a loaf. They are prepared to put up Air. MALE: The Colonial Secretary an asset, and they are asking only for was asked by myself to guarantee an s~ome consideration; nay, they are not amount of about £35,000. asking for as much as has been asked The Premier: That would not assist by the miners and farmers of this State. Broome. Mr. Munsie: When did the miners ask Mir. MALE : If the Premier knows it for reliefq would not assist Broomne, I must leave it Mr. 'MALE: The miners and farmers at that. have been asking for relief and have not The Premier: What you ask for is been in a position to put up the same £20,000 to enable the pearler to pay the amount of assets as the pearlers are pre- wages he owes to these Koepangers. pared to do. It has been pointed out Mr. MALE: I asked the Government that our white population has increased to assist the pearlers, and to prevent a in a very short time from 150 to 1,'100, crisis at Broome, to guarantee up to £C100 and surely 1,100 people in that far dis- a ton so that the men's wages might he tant North are worth some consideration. who have to be de- paid and that those Mr. Heitmanri: It is surprising that ported might be deported. you disciples of private enterprise at the Mr. Green: Will you guarantee that first sign of trouble run for relief to will never want them back? you Socialism. Mr. MALE: Also to enable the pearl- A-r. ALE: It is not socialism; we ers to tide over the present had times. For many years past, I might say almost are asking for a fair business deal on fair since the inauguration of pearling on this tines, but the Government are pre- pared to see our coast, the industry has been bringing into fellow countrymen lose all their assets- this State golden sovereigns to the tune of 300,000 to 500,000 per annum. Mr. Bolton: Fellow Koepangers. The Premier: When? Mr. MALE: The Government are pre- Mr. MIALE: Year after year it has pared to see our fellow countrymen been doing that, and the whole of the bankrupt and ruined; they would, I be- money, with the exception of small lieve, be even prepared to see them starve amounts sent away in the form of wages, rather than help them in the way I have has been retained in the Commonwealth. asked. Our industry is the fourth largest I maintain that at this juncture the State export industry in the State, and I main- is not in a position and cannot afford to tain it has done more in opening up the lose such a valuable industry and asset North of this State than any other in- as that. To-day we should be preserving dustry. 242 242[ASSEMBLY.]

The Premier: For the blaekfellow, and will not it have that same marketable yes. value as soon as the war ceases? Mr. MALE: Our big squatting indus- The Minister for Mines: That is prob- tries have been pioneered and opened up lematical. by the pearler-the member for Pilbara Mr. MALE: It is not. can bear me out in that-and, as a result The Premier: It is. civilisation to some extent has6 followed, Air. MIALE: Is it not a fact that at mining has followed, and even to-day the this moment factories in America and pearlers are doing their share of mining England are using the shell? prospecting on the coast of North Aus- The Premier: Well, why do not you tralia. It does seem monstrous to me sell your shell? when I realise that the Government de- The Minister for Mines; The trade liberately and with their eyes open have routes are open. squandered and wasted some £75,000 Mr. MALE: Are those factories to in running steamers on this coast, steam- close altogether, or will not they aim to ers which are benefiting only a very feMj do, as many other industries in the Brit- people. .ish Empire are endeavourng to do, cap- Mr. Miunsie: They took away your ture some of the enemies' trade? agency, did they not? The Premier: Is not it a fact that Mr. 'MALE: And yet to save an estab- you have had to control the output of lished industry, which has been worth to shell in normal timeis? this State some £300,000 to £500,000 per Air. MALE: No. annum, an industry which has given em- The Premier: What is the combine ployment directly to hundreds of white for? men, and indirectly to many hundreds Mr. MALE: Not to control the output, more, they wvill do nothing. The Govern- but to control the distribution. Have not ment will allow the finest city in the the Federal Government controlled the North to go bankrupt, to be left desolate, output! Have not they said-"Yon shall and will not lift a hand to prevent its work so mauy men and no more." ruin and desertion. The Premier: Not while men. Mr. Foley: Cannot you bring in the Mr. MALE: Have not they a Royal State sawmills? Commission sitting to-day inquiring into Mr. MALE: The Government's ad- the possibility of employing white mnen? visers-and I presume they take advice Mir. Foley: They are drawing* their sometimes-their inspector of fisheries at salaries and doing nothing else. Broome, and their Chief Inspector of Mr. MALE: I venture to say the Gov- Fisheries at Perth, have I believe consid- ernment and their adviser knew very ered this scheme and recommended it, but little about pearl shell. apparently the Government are not pre- Mr. Foley: Why does not private en- pared to act on their recommendation. terprise step in and buy all this shell up? The Colonial Secretary, when speaking in Mr. MALE: Have the Government another place the other evening, said the consulted the banks which have been ac- Government had been advised that to customed to handling and dealing with make advances in connection with this in- this shell? Have they consulted the dustry would be too risky. I would like brokers who are regularly employed in to know who the adviser was, for he handling and dealing with this shell, or could have known very little about the have they consulted their own personal pearling industry, or about pearl shell prejudices? We know the views of the generally. Is it reasonable to assume that Premier in connection with this particu- because at the present moment shell has lar industry. AS recently as last year he no value, it will always remain without said deliberately in this House that the any value? Is it not a fact that ever since industry was of no advantage to the pearling was established on this coast, State. shell has had a good marketable value, The Premier: I did not. £15 Dscnanar, 1014.]23 243

Air. MUALE: If Hansard is not suffi- Air. MALE: Then the lion, member cient for the Premier, then he is hopeless. had better put a question to the Premier, We know the views of the Honorary Min- and he will get his answer. ister in connection with this industry. He MNr. Heitmann: How many of the 140 misses no opportunity to abuse Broome owners are white people and the pearlers of Broomne. Mr. -%Al XE: There may be two or Mr. Heitman: That is unfair. three who are not, but the rest I think Mr. Griffiths: You are not going the are. right way to get sympathetic considera- Mr. Bolton: How many do you esti- tion. mate? Mr. 'MALE: The Honorary Minister Mr. MIALE: On the 30th July, 1913, in this House referred to Broome as the jiust to refresh the memory of the Pre. greatest sink of iniquity outside of 'Asia. mier, when I was referring to the pearl- Mr, Heitmann: You said he loses no ing industry, the Premier, by way of in- opportunity. terjection, said "It is of no advantage to the State." Mr. MALE: He loses no opportunity to abuse Broome and its pearlers. Thies6 The Premier: That is a mistake. are the men to whom I have had to ap- Mr. MALE: It may be a mistake, buct peal, unfortunately it appears in Ffanard. Mir. Foley: And whom you are asking Mansard is not allowed to make mistakes, the assistance of. even if the Premier does. The Premier The 'Minister for Works: The Honor- deliberately stated, int the House- ary Minister was not there when you, The Premier: I did not. made the appeal. Mr. MALE: That the greatest export MAr. Foley: You cannot kick anything industry in the State--and its exports out of us. vary between £C300,000 and £C500,000 per Mr. MTALE: I pointed out that the annuim-is of no use to the State; and industry was composed of small owners, when he does that it is time -we got rid and that there are 290 boats with 144 of the Premier. owners, and an average of about two The Premier: I did not say it. boats per owner. These two boats have Mir. MALE: I do not wish to unduly to maintain the owner and family, for labour the subject. I would like to re- many of them are miarried. peat the remarks of the mayor of Broome, Mr. Heitmann: How many are dum- in his appeal, when he says, "In the midst mies I of plenty, we aire starving," thanks to Mr. M ALE:- And to maintain the the Government, who, in my opinion, are shell openers who are employed1 and they mean enough to take advantage of our collectively have to maintain the trades- distress, and are mean enough to take this people and artisans and others who are opportunity of trying to squeeze us out living in Broome. of existence. Mr. Heitmann: Out of the 140 odd Mir. Heitmana: You would be very you name, how many are white menI sorry if you got any assistance, it seems. Mr. MALE: I have already stated that Mir. MALE: We have had knock-out there are at least 1,100 white people in blows, and we have faced hurricanes, Broome, which have destroyed our fleets, and Mr. Heitionn: How many are white drowned many of our men, but I say, people out of the number of boat own- "Thank Heaven" that at these particular ers? times we have had a Government in Mr. MALE: If the hon. member will power which were sympathetic towards only take the trouble to study the Acts us. We have recov 'ered from these losses, of Parliament which arc passed in this which would have crippled any other in- House dustry, and probably have crippled themn Mr. Heitmann: That is not necessary- out of existence. 244 244[ASSEMBLY.]

IMAr.Heitmaun: Rubbish. Are you dif- would know, that the dates which be ferent from any other community? mentioned when he handed over the let- Mr. MALE: Even though the Govern- ters were when we wvere right in meat take a mean advantage of our de- the midst of a general election cam- plorable position, as we have done in the paign, and as the head of the Govern- past so will we do in the f uture, and ment I could not he expected to he in the somehow or other we will come out on office waiting for letters to come from the top. hon. muember for Kimberley and to ne- AMr. fleitwano: Whiat are whining lect, what is the essential duty and res- about? ponsibility of the head of the Govern- Mir. MALE: In asking hon. members ment, to tell the community what has hap- to support me in moving the adjournment pened in previous years and what it is of the House, I only ask them to extend proposed to do in the future. I am not to their fellow citizens in the north of this in the-position of the member for Clare- State that sympathy and assistance which mont, who laughs rather loudly, of being they, in turn, have always been prepared able to draw 35s. a day while sitting in to extend to them, and which they, as a camp and getting somebody else to do right, expect them to extend towards them my electioneering battling for me. in return. Mir. Wisdom: r earned it, but you never Mr. Heitmaun: You are making politi- did in all your life. cal capital out of the misfortunes of your 'Mr. Heitmaun: You are a two-guinea- friends. a-day patriot. Mr, ALE: I move-- Mir. Wisdom: I would like to see you That the House do now adjourn. earn it; you never could. The PREMIER (Ron. J. Seaddan-- The PREMWIER: There is no military 'grown Hill-Ivanhoe) [6.5]: I fully ex- duty flow calling the hon. member away. ected when the bon. member gnggt'sted Hon. Frank Wilson: The bon. member that hie would move the adjournment of approached you in this Chamber before the House this afternoon that we would the election campaign. have heard from him some pracical sug- The PREMIER: The hon. member did gestion to help us and the pearlers out ot approach me in the Chamber and I told the present difficulty, but all that he him that I would make inquiries as to hag eiveu us is a tirade of abuse against whether we could render any assistance Ynyself as Premier and against the Gov- to the pearling industry. I told the hon. errnient in genleral. It is very evident member, and I repeat it now, that if he e mne Ihtif the hon. member was aef- expects the Government to find any mone- ually desirot's of obtaining assistance tary assistance for the pearling industry from the Government for the pearling in- at the present juncture he is doomed to dusfry he has rather peculiar methods of 'lisappointment. ruing about his business. -?r. Male: The Premier promised me r, Male: I tried for three and a half -t - interview. "n1rtl's to zet an interview with the ['re- The PREMIER: I did not. I prom- iqed the hon, member that I would ap- Hop Frank Wilson: The Premier must roach the Governor of the Common- remember his treatment of them. wealth Bank when he came to the State The PREMIER: The hon. member has -and that was to be a few weeks after occupied the time of this House for about the date we had met and discussed the two hours, and the most that he has said matter-and see if the Commonwealth is that I have been discourteous towards Bank would be prepared to make ad- him, that I have not acknowledged his vances if we guaranteed them. letters, and that he has not yet had the Mir. Male: We have never discussed it. ear of the Premier. These statements are The PREMIERi: Now the hon. member not correct. The hon. member probably comes along and asserts that I did noth- would know, as every other hon. member ing, but I have conclusive evidence from (15 DECEMBER 1914.]24 245 the file that I approached the Governor We are face to face with the fact that of the Commonwealth Bank, who was, ill so far back as 1903, eleven years ago, in Perth and refused to see other people, shell wvas sold at £80 a ton in the world's for the purpose of seeing whether he markets, and tinder normal conditions. Would help the industry in any way. E Now they want uIS to advance in a crisis did not wake any declaration except to like tie present £100 a ton on shell stored the lion, member. I got a reply however, in Broome. That means that £50,000 have from the Manager, according to whose lo be found for pearlers who have thaL statement the business was a risky one. shell stored in Broome to pay their Koe- Hon. Frank Wilson: Did you ever tell pangers for the work they have done for the hon, member that? them in the past. This amount will not The PREMIER: I did not let it rest find a single day's work for the white at that, however. We made further in- citizens of Australia. Are the Govern- quiries; we were not prepared to accept ment called upon01to pay this money in the statement made by the Manager of view of the fact admitted by the hion. the Commonwealth Bank, and let that be member that there are only 140 odd an end to the matter, We made other owners of pearling boats and that these inquiries and we were able to build up have produced as much as £500,000 in a this file as a result of the inquiries we year? When a man working for 9s. a made. Some of the inquiries are of such day gets out of employment and asks for' a nature that I wvant hon. members ser- assistance, for a mneal or a bed, some iously to consider whether it is desirable lion, members caill him a loafer and ask that we should render the assistance why hie is not thrifty enough to have claimed by the hon. member for Kimber- avoided that position. The pearler can Iey and by the mayor of Broome. In the make his thousands a year, and indeed first place I want hon. members to under- boasts of the fact that he spends it as stand that the pearlers had formed them- fast as he gets, it, But immediately he selves admittedly into a combine. meets with a difficulty or crisis like this Mr. Male: Some of them. he comes to the Government and asks The PREAMIER: And have made ar- them to find the money with which to pay rangements with a man named Ochac. his just debts. but who is now pronounced "Oxy," to Mr. Hleitmaun: That is potting rather enter into contracts with him for the pur- at different complexion upon things. chase of their shell for the 1914 and 1915 The PREMIER: I want the position seasons. to be understood by hon. members. If Mr. Male: Some of them only. I am warm on the subject it is because The PREMIER: These con tracts are bon. members have adopted the attitude as binding to-day as the dlay on which of accnsing me of discourtesy and of not they were made. We have obtained legal giving any consideration to the project. advice upon the point, and find that the I am as anxious as the hon. member who war between England and Germany does brought the matter forward to do justice not terminate any contract between one to this industry as to any other, but I English subject and another English sub- am not going to do an injustice to the ject. rest of Western Australia in order to do Hon. Frank Wilson: It suspends it. something which is not justiee, and which The PREMIER: It does not so long is practically a favour to the people of as they do not take advantage of the the North-West. moratorium, and this man did not. The Mr. Fleitxnann: Or to any other part fact is that there are other buyers be- of the State. sides Ochse. These other buyers are in The PREMIER: Or any other part a position to take up shell, and have con- of the State. The pearling industry is tracted to take it, and now they want the operated by the engagement of inden- Government to come along and take the tured labour. Asiatic labour. I have a risksr-for there are risks in the matter. report showing the number of men en- 246 [ASSEMBLY.] gaged in the industry. During thep year were not able to see how I am to find 1013, according to the latest returns, that £E50,00, while knowing full wvell there were 296 white persons engaged, that the proposition is doubtful, I should and no less than 2,358 Asiatics. And be doing something creditable neither to yet we are asked to find £50,000 to send the State nor to myself. The fact that up for distribution amongst 290 white the banks awe not prepared to advance persons for the purpose of paying what against the pearl shell without a guar- is due to 2,358 Asiatics, whilst other in- antee from the State is evidence that dustries are languishing for want of as- those who know the business best from sistance. With regard to the remark of the financial point of view are convinced Mr. Male as to the Government guaran- that this is not altogether a safe pro- teeing advances by the banks against the position. shell stored in Broomne, I may say that Mr. J. P. Gardiner: Are they not pre- of course the banks would advance uip to pared to advancet anything if they were guaranteed by the State. The PREMIER : They are not. At Mr. Mate: They would not. the present time there are 300 tons of The PREMWIER: It is absolutely the shell stored in Broome, and before the best guiarantee available, and it is a safe pearlers lay up their boats there will be guarantee. If we were to guarantee the 500 tons. As soon as the buyers in Lon- Broome banks and they were to advance £100 a don had notified the pearlers in ton on shell until the war is over who that they could not take delivery of any can say whether the war will last two further shell, the banks absolutely re- any further advances. years or five yearst All the time shell fused to make will be deteriorating in value. That, I think, is evidence, if evidence Mr. M1ale: No. was needed, that the banks realised the The PREMTIER: I say it will he de- fact that the business is a risky one. teriorating in value because it will be And I have to view the proposition from necessary to pay 6 per cent, for the ad- the standpoint of the State, as well as vances. The war may last for years, and from that of the pearler. I wish to find there will be no guarantee, supposing the ways and means, if I can fairly and war is over in five years, that there will safely do so, of assisting the industry. be any market for the shell. As a mat- Por the moment, however, we have no ter of fact thousands of tons of shell idea whatever, we are quite unable to are stored in London at the present imagine, what may happen to the pearl moment ready to go on the market. shell market after the war ends. There- fore, I have to be extremely careful how I guarantee any financial institution on Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 730 p.m. behalf of the State. But the first claim I wish to make is that, before the State The PREMIER: Before tea I was shall be called upon to guarantee the explaining to the House that the posi- banks in respect of advances against tion was such that if we were to com- this shell, the pearlers themselves shall ply with the requests which have been exhaust every means at their command made up to date, it would be a question of carrying on the industry. I consider of finding a large sum of money, or it is a fair proposition, and one which guaranteeing the banks to find a large any h on. member can reasonably accept, sum of money, on a very' doubtful pro- that the industry itself shall take every position. All I am desirous of doing is possible step to carry on without asking to discover ways and means to help this the State to come to its assistance. We industry, and, while helping it. to be fair have evidence of the fact that there are and just to the State. If I were to in existence definite contracts for the pledge the credit'of the State to the ex- purchase of the shell procured at tent of £50,000 say 12 months hence, and Broome by the majority of the pearl (15 D)ECmBER, 1914.] 2474

shellers-contracts principally with one in England and a British subject in one buyer in London, Mr. Ochse. We have of the British Dlominions. Even a contract evidence that this buyer is extremely between a British subject and the subject wealthy, having accumulated great of an enemy nation does, not become void riches out of the pearl shelling indus- by reason of wvar, but is merely suspended try. Indeed, so wealthy is he that, ac- tor thle duration of the wvar. In a ease of cording to evidence in our possession, tile kind which we are now considering, in nil his dealings up to date he has not however, the state of war has not even the yet had to claim the benefit of the mo- eftect of suspending the contract. Sc ratorium proclaimed in Great Britain. long as the buyer referred to has assets, He has been able to carry on without thiu pearlers can make him comply with the assistance of the moratorium. Still, the terms of tile contract. This they have the pearlers of Broome have never yet, never attempted to do. There are, how- so far as we are aware, called upon that ever, other buyers besides this large person to keep to the terms of his con- buyer; and those other buyers are, no tract. We have obtained advices as to doubt, experiencing difficulty in comply- to whether the pearlers can so compel ing with the terms of their contracts. As him, and the Crown Solicitor puts up the a result, those other -buyers are loudest following minute on that aspect of the its their condemnation of the Government matter- because we do not come along to relieve It is very important that the rights them of the contracts they entered into in of the pearlers against Mr. Ochse normal times, because we do not at once under contract of sale should not be take measures to save them, not from abandoned. For this reason I think disaster, but from the ill effects of the that each pearler should make a ten- war, which effects everybody is feeling, der of the shell to Mr. Ochose's duly to a greater or less extent. Were I satis- accredited agent for acceptance or re- fied that at the close of the war the shell jection, or that there should he ob- would find a ready market at a price tained from Mr. Ochse in each ease an which would cover the suggested advance unequivocal refusal to accept delivery of £100 per ton, then I would have no or carry out the contract. If Mr. Ochse hesitation in guaranteeing the banks. repudiates the contract or refuses to But, as yet, I have not that evidence. On accept the shell, there would be a the contrary, all the information we have right of action for damages against gained to date oes to show that the him, and this right could be charged pearl shell market is an extremely on- as security for hank advances to- certain one. The uncertainty arises from gether with the shell itself. Before the fact that if anything happened to the Government does anything, the upset the equilibrium of the large buyer matter should be referred to Broome I have referred to, the market goes bang, for action to be taken, under legal since be practically controls the world's advice, in the direction indicated. shell market to-day. That is the evidence That is advice which we have just re- we have. Further, we have evidence that ceived. We obtained advice because we as recently as in 1903, under normal con- learnt from other sources that the con- ditions, without any such war as we are tracts could not be enforced. As against faced with at the present time, the great- that statement I wish to point out that the est war known to history, even then shell contracts can be enforced, and that the wvent down to £80 per ton. If the Gov- assertion that they become null and void ernment were to advance. £100 per ton, by reason of the fact that Great Britain or guarantee hank advances at that.rate, is at war with another nation is utterly and the advance or gurantee had to be wrong' It is wrong because the war does carried for a period of five years, we not render void a contract which has been would have to find in addition interest on made between one British subject and the amount at 6 per cent., or even more-- another, made between a British subject say up to 8 per cent. That interest, of 248 248ASSEMBLY.] course, would add to the cost of the shell John Forrest, was the pearlers' claim before it reached the market, with the thast the Commonwealth Government or effect of rendering the position, from my the State Government should render them point of view, an extremely precarious financial assistance. I wish to explain to one, and one as to which I am not satis- lion, members wvhat is happening in the fied that I am called upon to undertake pearling industry. The latest statistics responsibilities at this stage. I desire show that there are 296 white men em- also to emphasise that it is recognised ploye~d in dirs industry. to-day that the pearling industry of the Mr. Gilehrist: When? North-West is to somne extent overdone, The PREMIER: For the year .1913. that there are really more boats in the As against the 296 white men there were business than can carry on safely. To- employed 2,358 of coloured races. Those day what is happening? Quite a number c~oloured men are engaged by the pearlers of engine boats has been put on, and nder Commonwealth law and Connmon- the engine boat can procure consider- wecilt, r-egulations, under indentures ap- ably more shell than the oldttiine lugger proved by the Commonwealth Govern- could obtain. The engine boats are being ment. Therefore, the pesrling industry, controlled by a few owners, and the even- as existine at the present moment, is tual result is that the pearting industry carried on by the will of the Federal Gov- of the North-West is getting into the ernment, and not by the will of the State hands of a few-into the bands of a com- Government. Whilst I am charged with bine in the truest sense of that word. the responsibility of seeing that the in- Mr. J. P. Gardiner: It always has dustries of this State are kept going, not- been so. withstanding the adverse conditions pre- vailing, yet I contend that the pearling The PREIER: But not to the same industry, iii view of the fact that it is extent as at present. I wish to ask controlled by the Commonwealth Govern- bon. members this fair question: would I meifi, should look to the Commonwealth be justified, in view of all the possibilities Government for assistance. According I have outlined, in view of the uncer- to the statements of the pearlers them- tainty of the market after the close of the selves, if what was proposed some months war, and in view of the certainty that the ago were put into operation and the money which this State is asked to ad- coloured divers dlone away with, the effect vance or guarantee would not find a single would be to close uip the industry. I con- day's employment for a single individual tend that the first Government to be called -because the money is required for the upon to assist the pearling industry must sole purpose of being advanced against he the Federal Government. If it is shell already procured-would I hbe justi- worth the while of the Federal Govern- fied in imposing on the State so heavy a ment to permit coloured labour to enter responsibility? Let me point out, too, Australia for the purpose of carrying on that this money would be spent for the the pearling industry, then it is worth benefit of pearlers who admittedly, by the Federal Government's while to decide their own member's statement, have beern whether the pearling industry shall or making a tremendous amount of money' shall not continue to exist. out of the industry, and who boast that Member: Is it not a condition that the they spend the money as fast as they get coloured men are to be employed on the it. Immediately a crisis comes upon us sea alone? in the form of a war exceeding in magni- Hon. R. H. Underwood (Honorary tude any' known to history, when they Minister) : There is custom for every- have hardly been dlosed down for a day. thing. these pearlers approach the Government The PREMIER: As the Honorary with appeals for financial assistance. One Minister says, there is custom for every- of the very first claims made, as shown thing. In connection with the engage- by that letter of the 30th August to Sir ment of coloured labour the pearlers [15 D)ECEMER, 1914.]29 249 first: of all apply to the Department of men are usually discharged from a boat, External Affairs to indent a certain num- which lays up from the middle of De- ber of coloured men to be engaged ex- cember to some time in February, gen- clusiv-ely in pearl fishing. The depart- erally about two months. Some of the mnent. have placed the maximum which men are discharged to leave the Common- may be indentured at about 2,200. At wealth by the next available boat. Some present there are employed 2,18-to the are re-engaged by other masters who end of the September quarter. On the Have open pegymits. Some who are not granting of the permits and the arrival discharged remain in the Commonwealth of the men, the employers immediately until the boats are ready to proceed to give a bond for £100 per man. The bon'd sea again. They are permitted to live in requires that the men are to be employed their particular portion of the town dur- solely as members of a crew on a vessel ing the laying-up season. The only other engaged in pearl fishing, and the condi- times the men are allowed to leave their tions of the bond state that "if the said boats is when they are ill and have to go persons, forthwith, after landing at to the hospital, or when they are taken Broome aforesaid, sign articles as mem- to be put in gaol. Precautions are taken bers of the crew of a vessel engaged in to see that they go back to the boats im- pearl fishing, and if while the said per- mediately upon their release from the in- sons are members of the crew of any stitution. Those are the conditions under such vessel none of them are engaged in which men are engaged in the industry, any duties except those ordinarily con- and if we propose to keep it going, we nected with the vessel, and if in the event have to guarantee not only £60,000 to the of any of the said persons being im- banks, but we have to find an additional prisoned in the Commonwealth for any £:50,000, to carry on for twelve months, offence under the Merchant Shippin that is £100)000, and then only to keep Act of the United Kingdom, or any the boats going half-time, or keep half Act of the Parliament of the Common- the number of boats employed. It is a wealth relating to navigation and ship- matter that requires serious consideration ping, or upon being given treatment in and, if I can be fairly satisfied that we any public or charitable institution on are not taking an undue risk, T shall be account of illness or insanity or any other prepared to render assistance to keep the reason, the said employer pays to the industry going. But there is no com- proper Government authority or to the parison between keeping that industry public or charitable institution coni-. occupied and industries such as mining, cerned as the case requires, all moneys agricultural, or timber- There is no risk paid out or expenses incurred in the abont a market for wheat or a market maintenance or -support of the person for timber or even a market for copper, employed or given treatment, and all ex- tin, or lead, not the slightest risk, but penses incurred in returning him to his there is a doubt about a ready market own country, and if each of the said per- for pearl shell when the war has ended. sons is returned to the place outside the The hon. member for Kimberley has said Commonwealth approved by the moved his motion on the ground of ur- Collector of Customs at Broome forth- gency, which is of course necessary when with, after he ceases to be employed as a moving the adjournment of the House. member of the crew of the pearling ves- I would draw attention to the fact, how- sel, then this obligation shall he void,' but ever, that after all the complaints about otherwise to remain in full force and the urgency, and his inability to get satis- virtue." The bond lasts for three years faction from the Government, the hon. as a rule, or for two years, or one year, member left Perth about the 10th or 11th if the employer likes, then after the bond October to proceed, according to his own is given the men are signed on with statement published in the Press, to articles at Broome or otber point of em- Broomne, because of the urgent nature of ployment. At the end of the season the the pearling industry difficulties. Yet [10]a 250 250[ASSEMBLY.] the hon. member did not reach Broome gard to the pearling industry and he did until the 14th or 15th November. so, and I believe that if we can arrive at Mr. Male: The statement is absolutely some basis which 'will be satisfactory to incorrect. I went from Perth to Broome the pearlers as well as to the Government, in the same boat. we can get the Commonwealth Bank to Hon. R. H. Underwood (Honorary guarantee advances. I will not, ho'weve;, Minister) : How did you get back to be forced by the kite-flying which has Pilbara? 'taken place during the past few weeks at Mr. 'Male: By another boat. Broome in particular, into guaranteeing The PREMIER: The hon. member the State, unless I am perfectly satisfied proceeded to Brooms to inquire into ur- that I am doing it in the best interests of gent matters connected with the industry, the State and not in the interests of a but I have no recollection of any corre- few who are concerned about their per- spondence reaching my department after sonal welfare. We would not be safe in the bon. member had got to Broonme. guaranteeing the advance of a penny He remained in the Pilbara electorate above £50 per ton; we recognise that to keep the industry which the Honorary there will be some difficulty in keeping Minister represents going. That was the the industry going with that payment of urgency of the matter which caused the £50 per ton against shell recovered, but hon. member to proceed to Brooms 'with uinless any further stand which may be such haste. I recognise the fact that the taken be reasonable, and it can he shown matter is one which requires careful and to me how the Government can help with to some extent urgent consideration, but, safety, and I can have the backing of in order to satisfy hon. members that we those who know the business, and also have not neglected the matter, I may that the pearlers themselves have ex- state that at the outset, while making hausted every means at their disposal to further inquiries, we arranged that shell keep the industry going, I am not going should be stored in Government sheds in to be forced into the position of carrying Broome at a low charge. That was the responsibility. I most be fully satis- from last month and it is to continue to fied that I can answer for my action when the end of December. In the meantime, the time arrives, and that may be at any we received reports from our inspectors, moment after twelve months have passed. and our fisheries inspector warned us All I ask is that fair consideration be that the matter required a tremendous given to the matter from hon. memabers. amount of consideration before any ac- Mir. Male:- That is all we ask. tion was taken in the direction of giving The PREM1IER:- That fair considera- the assistance which bad been asked by tion be given to the matter side by side the pearlers. In the face of this advice, with every other industry on the basis will hon. members say that it does not of its value. In connection with other in- matter whether we spend all that money dustries, we are to-day asking them to in the direction of paying the debts of merely exist and to carry on their debts people who must leave the Common- until such time as the State can recover wealth in the course of time; and to from the delicate position it is in. Yet bring that about I am to give a guarank- the pearlers, because they cannot sell the tee on behalf of the State to the tume of shell, ask us to give them from £100 to £50,000. 1 have already been taken to £125 per ton on it, and that advance is task for not conserving the interests of to be made against something which does the State, but I know that it will require not mean anything except wealth for all our attention in the next twelve those who produce it. The production of months to keep going those industries in pearl shell will not help the Empire; which white labour is employed, and in soldiers cannot eat pearl shell, but they many cases keep them going half-time. can eat our wheat and wear our wool. The Governor of the Commonwealth Shell is only used to make nice orna, Bank promised to make inquiries in re- ments, that thene may or may not be a a [15 DECEMBER, 1914.]25 251 market for. I am told that 40 per cent. Hon. FRANK WILSON: The hon. of the shell was utilised in Austria, and member did, and the insinuation that we cannot foresee what will happen in the firm had entered into a contract for that case at the end of the war. I regret the purchase of this pearl shell with a as much as anyone that the industry finds finin of foreign extraction belonging to itself in a difficult position, but we the arch enemy of the Empire, is beside have to very carefully consider what as- the question. The Premier bungled over sistance we can render it. If I sign my the name Ochee. name as a guarantor for the State, I will Mr. Foley: What is it? have to answer for it eventually, and un- Hon. FRANK WILSON: I do not less I am perfectly satisfied in regard to know what it is. the whole matter, I prefer to leave my Foley: Neither does the Premier present office than he forced hy heroics Mr. into the position of having to sign some- and he admitted it. thing which might not be in the best in- Hon. FRANK WILSON: The infer- terests of the State. Some other means ence the Premier wished to convey was than those suggested to date will have to that this was a German firm that had be found before I can agree to a guaran- repudiated its liabilities. tee which in my own conscience I must The Premier: I told* the House he was know I am entering into in the interests a British subject. of the State as well as in the interests of Hon. FRANK WILSON: The Pre- those engaged in the industry. mier did not say that this man was a British subject, but he argued that a Hon. FRANK WILSON (Sussex) contract between one British subject [7.55]: I have listened with some in- and another British subject could not be terest to the speech of the member for broken by the war. But he was not re- Kimberley and to the Premier's reply, ferring to Ochse at all. It was in re- and if there have been any heroics at sponse to an interjection I made myself all they have come from the Premier to the effect that the contracts were sus- himself. In this connection, I overheard pended till the termination of the war. an interjection from the member for However, the fault is by no means on the Irwin (Mr. James Gardiner)-who was shoulders of the member for Kimber- absent most of the time while this mat- Icy (Mr. Male). He has clearly stated ter was being debated-that we were the steps he took to bring this urgent not going the right way about getting question before the Premier. He has assistance from the Government. If the given dates and read letters to the House hon. member had been in his place whilst which. I think, fairly prove that the hon. the member for Kinmberley was address- member bas some rounds of complaint ing the House he would have heard at the manner in which the Premier such a tirade of interjections from mem- failed to receive him and discuss this bers on the Ministerial side led by the matter with him. Some 3Y2 months Premier, which would have justified have gone byv since the hon. member first to the fullest extent any little warmth appealed to the Premier, and the Pre- that the member for Kimberley ex- mier has never deigned to grant him an hibited. I do not think that personal al- interview at which to discuss this mat- lusions to an hon. member's firm or to ter. That in itself is quite sufficient business transactions are the right way ground for complaint and for any warmth of solving a difficulty' of this kind. it is which the member for Kimbe'rley might idle to accuse the member for Kimnber- have displayed in putting the case be- Icy foi instance, of being connected with fore the House. He approached the a wealthy company' or firm and then Premier in the House before we ad- say, "Why do you not find the money journed, about the middle of September. to buy the shell 1"1 and be had no direct answer from the The Premier: Who did? Premier until after that date. Even then 252 252[ASSEMBLY.]

his answer was "Go to the Federal cidedly it is. Why are you swearing in Government; the member is M1r. Greg- special constables to keep the peace up ory."I there? Are the Government to repudi- The Premier: He did not send along ate their -responsibilities?9 Are you to al- that letter until the 15th September. low People to run riot in any part of Either he or Sir John Forrest withheld the State, an industry to be wiped out, it until after the elections. because you believe the responsibility Hon. FRANK WILSON4: The mem- rests with some other Government? her for Kimberley has given all his dates, The Premier: The mayor of Broome including those on -which he unsuccess- appreciates that it is a Commonwealth fully attempted to get an interview with matter, as is attested by his writing to the Premier. Whenever I have occa- Sir John Forrest. sion to wait on the Premier, he always Ron. FRANK WILSON: He was receives me promptly, and therefore I prepared to appeal to any one in the em- was surprised to hear that be had put ergency. If it is a faked account, as the off the member for Kimberley, as ap- Mdinister implied, it is up to Ministers to parently he did. fiud out the true position, but in the ab- The Premier: At a time like the pre- sence of proof to the contrary we must sent everybody insists upon seeing the accept the statement of the position as head of the Government. published in the Press. Ron. FRANK WILSON: Well, this Mr. Mfale: The Premier has had a wire essentially 'belongs to the Premier anti from Broome. Treasurer. It is a matter of policy in The Premier: And recognising that it the first instance, and of advances in the was a Commonwealth matter, I repeated next. it to the Prime Minister. The Premier: That is not correct. Hon. 'FRANK WILSON: Has the Ron- FRANK WILSON: It is a matter Premier had any satisfaction fronm the of Policy first and of advances next, and Prime Minister? therefore any one would go to the Pre- The Premier: It is not question time. mnier on it. From first to last the Pre- Hon. FRANK WILSON: That is not mier never gave a direct reply to the fair. The position is that Broome is in a hon. member until six or seven weeks parlous condition, if -we are to believe the bad elansed. report. There have been riots, for what reason I do not know. The Premier: That is niot correct. The Premier: By' the people who, we lion. FRANK WILSON: The posi- are told, are more orderly than the Brit- tion is that the hon. member asked the ishers. Premier for bread and was offered ft Hon. FRANK WILSON: I do not stone. The report published in the news- suppose they are any more disorderly; papers yesterday morning in connection but is that going to settle the difficulty? with the trouble at Broome shows that the position there is serious. Ur. B. J. Stubbs : What proof have The Minister for Works: It was not you that the riot arose out of the depres- ensvineererl. I supose? sion ? Hon. PRANK WILSON: The Minis- Hon. FRANK WILSON: None ter ought to be able to tell us. whatever I am going on tbe published The Premier: To any case, it is a report. Apparently there has been Federal matter. trouble at Broome, and it may have Hon. FRANK WILSON: No. It is arisen from the fact that there is a short- for the State Government to preserve age there. law and order. M1r. B. J. Stubbs: You have no proof The Premier:- The terms of the in- of that. dentures of those men show that it is Hon. FRANK WILSON: 'Nor have I not the responsibility of the State. any proof that the hon. member is sane. Hon. FRANK WILSON: Most de- I maintain that the Government have a [15 DEonraun, 1914.]25 253 duty to perform, namely, to keep the Minister) - And is likely to be for the peace in that district just as in any other next five years. portion of the State; and if they cannot R~on. FRANK WILSON: Shell has do it with the resources at their comn- accumulated-the interviewer says to the mand, they eon apply to the Federal Gov- tune of 450 tons-and on the Premier's ernment. own admission, it is in the Government The Premier: That is not a fair state- warehouses. Apparently the Governifent ment of the position. The men causing have to some extent realised that they. the trouble are brought out under inden- must -render any reasonable assistance ture ranted by the Federal Government within their power, and they have al- and the people who, on bringing them lowed the shell to be stored in the Goy- out, entered into a bond with the Federal erment sheds; I presume in order that, Government, are called upon to see that in case of ultimately rendering financial those men behave themselves. assistance, they will have the sbell under Hon. FRANK WILSON: No; the their own control. The question is, what Premier is putting the case wrongly. The do these pearlers Ask for? They do not men have a -right to be ashore in Brooms ask for money, as the Premier intimates, at certain times, and it is the duty of the bnt for a guarantee. Government to preserve peace and good Mr. MeLowall: What is the differ- order. ence? The Premier: No. It is for the Fed- Hon. FRANK WILSON: Under a eral authorities. It is stipulated that guarantee one does not pay until called these men shall reside in certain places, upon to liquidate. and there only. Mr. James Gardiner: One generally Hon. FRANK WILSON: They are in is called upon to liquidate a guarantee. Broome to-day. Hon. FRANK WILSON: But not The Premier: They have no right to immediately. At the present time the be there. Premier is not asked to fork out £00:000, £30,000. £40,000, or £50,000. Ron. FRANK WILSON: Then why The Premier: I am asked to earmark not turn them out? it. The Premier: That is what the pearl- Hon. FRANK WILSON: No, the era want us to do, namely, to undertake Premier is asked to guaran tee the State's the expense of sending them away. financial institutions to find the money. Hon. FRANK WILSON: The Pre- That is what I gather from the statement mier and his colleagues have a duty to by the mayor of Broome. All that the perform, and they cannot get away from pearlers want is a gunran tee to the finan- it, If there is trouble in Broomie they cial hofises in order to obtain sufficient must take their part in settling that money to pay off their crews, liquidate trouble. It does not matter why or how, their liability, and get rid of about 1,000 or by whose permission those men are Asiatics who ought to be returned to them. If there is trouble, law and order their native lands at the end of the sea- must be maintained if it can be done with son. I do not know that it is nnfair the resources at our command, and, fail- for Broome to ask for assistance within ing that, we can go to the Federal Gov- reason. I admit the Premier's contention ernment. As to the condition of the in- that to give up to £100 per ton would, dustry, it appears that, from -whatever perhaps, be excessive and unsafe. but reason, the pearling industry is hung up, surely there must be some safe limit to and there is no market for the shell. which he can go by way of a guarantee. WVhether it is a combine, as the Premier If it is £50 a ton, why not say Sol implies, or whether it is merely owing to The Premier: Why not say that the the contingencies of war, the fact re- pearlers. themselves should exhaust every mains that the industry is hung up. other means first? Hon. R. HR. Underwood (Honorary Hon. FRANK WILSON: Certainly. 254 254ASSEMBLY.]

The Premier: Well, they have not Hon. FRANK WILSON: The Pre- done so, and have not attempted to. mier, like a prodigal'son, borrows from Hon. FRANK WILSON: What have uisrer- they not done? Mr. Foley: There are usurers among The Premier: Kept these people to the pearl buyers, their contracts. Bon. FRANK WISON: Do hion. members wish to see Broonme and the Hon. FRANK WILSON: They are whole pearling industry wiped out alto- prosecuting them now. The Premier gether? Broome does a big trade and knows the difficulty of enforcing pay- brings considerable revenue to the Comt- ment on a French or a foreign subject. monwealth, and a portion of that revenue He is a British subject The Premier: is returned to Western Australia. Broome know something in London. You will maintains a large population; true, a about the matter directly. great proportion are of the coloured Ron. FRANK WILSON: That is rates, but the mayor states that the num- what I am trying to find out. After lis- ber of whites has increased to 1,100. tening to the Premier for a full hour, we Mr. Mate: That is right. have found out nothing. The Premier: Discount that by about Hon. U. H1. Underwood (Honorary 20 per cent. Minister): And to your colleague for Hon, FRANK WILSON: The member two hours. for Kimberley says it is right. Hon. FRANK WILSON: The Pre- The Premier: Of course he does. mier has gone around the subject and Mr. Foley: How many names were on said he would do all he could and would the roll at the last election? give it consideration. That is what his lion, FRANK WILSON: Surely these speech amounts to, and he has compared people are entitled to some consideration. the assistance he is going to give to the We cannot do it with a wave of the hand, farmers, miners, and timber workers, and and deny them consideration. They be- others, with that required for the pearl- long to uis and to our country; they have ing industry, and he now maintains that settled there with the connivance of all we cannot eat pearishell. There are a Governments. They have carried on their hundred and one things we cannot eat, avocations, and we welcomed the wealth copper and timber included. The Pre- accrued from the industry, and on these mier is going to advance against tin and grounds we are entitled to givi them every other minerals. We cannot eat timber consideration. The only point is that we and -wool, but -we can utilise them, and, should take steps as far as we can to in the same way, pearl shell can he uti- protect and establish and maintain credit lised. in Western Australia. The Premier: In what way? The Premier: Where are your finan- way. The trade of Broome is fromn cial institutions? £350,000 to £500,000 per aninum, and it Hon. FRANK WILSON: It is of no goes into the general circulation of trade use the Premier talking in that way. The and commerce. mayor ays the financial institutions a-re The Premier: A few days after they prepared to find the money if they can struck trouble they had not a penny. get a suitable guarantee. Hon. FRANK WILSON: The Gov- The Premier: They have never told us erment were exactly in the same posi- that yet. tion, As soon as war was declared they Hon. FRANK WTLSON: The Premier had not a penny to their names, and can easily find out if that is the case. sought to impose additional heavy taxa- The Premier: It is not my responsi- tion on the people. Now the Premier has bility to find out. received a loan from the Commonwealth Hion. FRANK WILSON: It is the and is relieved somewhat. Premier's responsibility to give assist- Mr. Foley: Why did not private en- ance in a legitimate way, and to obtain terprise give assistance to the pearlers? the information regarding it. [15 DEcE=m% 191t] [15Dszn, 91t]La 255

The Premier: The banks have been and pearl shell has been about £80 a ton, doing well out of it, according to the but surely it is quite feasible to give a mayor's own showing. guarantee up to a figure which would Hon. FRANK WILSON: There are make the position of the Government many foolish statements bandied about perfectly safe. I do not think we ought that different ones are doing so much to deny these people all assistance be- better than the other fellow. cause there is some danger attached to The Premier: if you had remained in giving a guarantee up to the limit they your place you would have heard the ask. The thing is to find out to what member for Kimberley read it. limit the Government can safely go, what Hon. FRANK WILSON: I was in my arrangements can be made, and if the place, and did not hear the amounts the Government can safely help them by giv- banks have made out of this trade. An ig a reasonable guarantee up to £50 or opinion may have been expressed by one £60 a ton they should offer it and help individual, the same as the Premier is them out of their difficulty. This indus- fond of saying how well some people are try is of very great importance to the doing. State. I would be very sorry to see it Ron. R. H. Underwood (Honoraiy closed up and if there is the slightest Minister) : It was in a letter from the danger of such a thing happening, I mayor of Broome. would be quite prepared to take my share of the responsibility with the Government Hon. FRANK WILSON: There is no- for assisting these people who are in a thing in the letter :from the mayor of corner. They have just as great a claim Broome as to what the banks have made. The Premier: A bank has more than on us as any other section of the com- munity. We have no right to single out paid expenses during the six months from any one portion of the community and the time of starting busineas. say that portion only are entitled to as- Hon. FRANK WILSON: A bank- sistance. Farmers and settlers must have presumably it has a good deal to do with full and ample assistance. We have the pearling industry, but there are squat- given it to them for -years past and will ting operations which the banks have to continue to give it. Our miners, too, finance as well, It is not all attached to must be assisted within reason, and the the pearling industry, though it is largely pearlers, notwithstanding that they work due to that industry. That again is not their boats with Asiatic labour under per- the point. The expense of running a mits from the Federal Government, are branch bank at Broome would not amount just as much entitled to our consideration to many thousands of pounds a year, and as any other section of the community. it might be very small business. indeed The Premier asks why private firms could that would enable a branch to pay ex- not advance against the pearl shell. Pri- penses out of the pearl shell transactions. vate individuals will not do it, and in Mr. Foley: Did not the member for many instances cannot do it. They cannot Ki-mberley say Brooms had no back coun. go on indefinitely pledging themselves to try, and that all of it came from the pearl large sum of money unless they can see shell industry? an opportunity and fix a time when they Hon. FRANK WILSON: I think the can realise upon the goods against which hon. member himself is interested in a they are advancing. The Government are cattle station out there. The Premier has in the happy position that they can give argued that it would he dangerous to give a guarantee;- they may ultimately have to a guarantee against the value of shell find the money, but that day is probably because he says it deteriorates, but I am a considerable distance off. advised that it does not. It has always Mr. Foley: You admit socialism is got its value, and I see no danger in that superior to private enterprise? respect. There may be danger of the Hon. FRANK WILSON: I do not see demand falling off. We have known the that there is any socialism about this at time when the demand has fallen away alL. 266 256ASSEMBLY.]

Mr. Foley: It is socialism all the stae. have landed the Treasurer, and I have a Hon. FRANK WILSON: Does t!W feeling of sympathy for him because of hon. member suggest it was socialism the insistence of the demands which are when Mr. Lloyd George guaranteed the being made from all quarters for help. payment of bills of exchange to the Bank 1 ask him that in this case he should of England? approach the matter from the standpoint Mr. Foley: Yes. of the industry-not of the wealthy pearl- Hon. FRANK WILSON: There is not ers of the North-West-hut of the peatt- much socialism about it. The resources ing industry an& of the North-West it- of the Empire were strained, and we, self, and try to give it that consideration instead of acting similarly, created a which is looked for from the Premier of paie. the State, The plea of the hon. member Mr. Foley: The private institutions in for Kimberley (Mr. Male) needs no en- England did not do that. dorsement. I think it ought to be gener- Hon. FRANK WILSON: They were ally admitted that an industry, so pro- called into daily consultation, and assisted fitable to the public revenues of the the Government. State, and so important a factor in the Mr. Foley: But they got their share occupation of our great empty North- out of it. West territory, should be saved from the Hon. FRANK WILSON: And they financial disaster which seems to be have lately found 300 millions of money threatening it. The continuance not only to help to carry on the'war. It is absuni of the town of Broome, but also of the to talk as the hon. member does. Without industry, is entirely dependent apon the the financial institutions the Government pearl shell market being kept open, or would he helpless. that guarantee which is asked for to The Premier: You recognise that they financial institutions being given in order were not philanthropists; they did no4 that they may be justified in giving suffi- give the 300 millions. cient - assistilnce to enable the industry Hon, FRANK WILSON:- Of course still to be carried on. not. Does the Premier give all he pos- The -Premier: That is subject to the sesses to the Government? I -would like purchaser of the shell refusing to comply to see him give that £300 out of his Sal- with the contract. ary which he promised to return to the Mr. GILCHRIST: I understand that. Treasury. I hope the Premier will be as I trust that the Premier, as he has prom- good a~s his. promise made to-night, and ised to-night, will take into consideration that he will have such inquiries made as all the circumstances surrounding this will warrant him giving a decision one matter, and will give a decision at the way or another. If assistance is to be earliest possible moment. The news- given, it must, to be of any benefit, be papers of the North-West anticipated given promptly. The Premier professes trouble in the way of riots among tha to be ready to give reasonable assistance. Asiatic portion of the population, Let it be found out at once what that rea- and I am afraid if there is any sonable assistance is. If he cannot do it, more delay in dealing with the he onght to have told the member for financial side of the question -we Kimberley in plain words three months may before long he faced with a more ago, instead of hanging the subject up. serious rising than occurred a few days Airt. GILCHRIST (Gascoyne) [8.29]: ago. There must he a certain amount I rise to address myself to this question of prejudice agaist the pearling industry without any party bias. The air, I am because of its employment of Asiatics, afraid, is rather hazy on account of the and that has been confirmed not only by personalities which have been hurled from the interjections of the Honiorary Min- both sides of the Chamber. I am fully ister but also by the continual interjec- senisible of the financial difficulty into tions this afternoon from the other side which the war and other circumstances of the House. The Premier made refer- [15 DEmimna, 1914.] 257 once to the fact that there are only 296 ation of the war, and also that they white men directly employed in the pearl- should guarantee, in some way or ig industry in Broome, but he misses the other, the pearl shell that is being point that the industry in Broome is sup- -won from those banks in Shark porting 11100 white people in the town of Bay, if to do nothing else than to cover Brcome itself. the houisehold expenses of the pearlers The Premier: And 2,358 blaekfellows themselves and to save them and their as -well. families lrom, serious trouble. I am thank- Mr. GILCHRIST: It is supporting a ful to the Premier that, although at the number of people in Perth. beginning of his address he assured the The Premier: The Perth people are hon, member for Kimberley that if we supporting a, lot of pondlers. were expecting any assistance for the Mr. GILCHRIST: Not at all. It is pearling industry we were doomed to dis- supporting a large number of people, not appointment, toward the close of his only in the town of Broome, but also speech he said he might be ready to guar- in the various towns of the North-West. an tee to the extent of £50 a ton on shell. I have no patience with the humbug and The Premier: That statement is not hypocrisy that indignantly object to correct; I said nothing of the kind. building up an Australian industry and Mr. GILCHRIST: I am sorry if I establishing settlement in the North-West misunderstood the Premier. At all events upon a firm basis by the employment of he showed a much more sympathetic atti- Asiatics, and at the same time applaud tude toward the industry at the close of the co-operation of Japanese warships his address than at the beginning, I am with Australian warships in the Pacific, prep ared to meet the Premier. I do not and approve of the use of Indian Ghur- want to ask anything unreasonable, but kas and African Turkos to fight, at the only to ask that these small men, who sacrifice of thousands of their lives, shoul- are employing white men, and doing a der to shoulder with our own Australian lot of the pearling themselves, should be volunteers. And what for? For the rQiven that assistance which other indus- safety of our Empire, the protection of tries of the State are looking 'for at this our trade, and the vindication of our particular time. By a sympathetic con- honour. I did not rise to speak in the sideration of these very modest requests interests of the town of Broome, how- the Premier will he saving a worthy in- ever, but in order to place before the dustry, and will he earning the gratitude Premier the ease of the pearlers. of Shark of a hard-working set of neonle. Bay, which I think in many -respects The Premier: And I shall then he at- is more pressing than that of their tacked for increasing the deficit. Advic confr~res at Broome. The pearling is the cheapest thing in the world to industry in Shark Bay is quite procure. distinct from that on the coast fur- Hon. II. ff. UNDERWOOD (Honor- ther north. The shell is much smaller, is ary Minister-Pilbara) r8.401 : I desire of considerably less value, there are very to say a few -words on this question, and few Asiaties. employed, and at the same will endeavour as far as possible to re- time all the master pearlers are in a frain from party polities. I may say small way of business. The slump in the tht it is self-denial on my part to do so pearl market twelve months ago placed after the speeches made by the hon. mem- many of these men in a very precarious her for Kimberley (Mr. Mafle) and the position. The outbreak of the war has leader of the Opposition (Hon. Frank completed the proces, so that the outlook Wilson). Mfr. Male said that he failed is very dark indeed for thoen. I would to get the Premier's ear. Evidently by suggest to the Premier, if I might. as a the information which the Premier has9 first measure of assistance, that the Gov- given the House he has paid some atten- ernment should forego the rents on the tion to the question, whether the hon, Shark Bay pearling hank during the dun- member for Kimnberley got his ear or not. 258 258[ASSEMBLY.]

It is possible, therefore, that somebody leader of Western Australia, He got else had some interest in the North-West nothing from Sir John Forrest. as well as the bon. member for Kimberley. Member: Not even his ear. Hon. Prank Wilson: That is no reason Hon. R, H. UNDERWOOD (Honorary why the hon. member should have been Mfinister) - And therefore the hon. mem- treated discourteously. ber for Kimberley comes, along and Hon. R. H. UNDERWOOD (Honorary abuses John Seaddan. I think in a posi- Minister):- No reason whatever. tion like this the hon. gentleman should Mr. Heitmaun: The hon. member for rather have devoted his attention to giving Kimberley was insulting. the House some idea of how to relieve an Hon. R. H. UNDERWOOD (Honorary undoubtedly acute position, The hon. Minister): The hon. member knows as member did not attempt to give us any well as I do--for he has held the position idea, or put forward any proposition of Honorary Minister-that the pearling which the Government could consider or industry is under the control of the Col- could reasonably deal with. Having onial Secretary, and that before the Pre- studied the papers I claim that the Pre- mier could act he would have to go to the mier, the Colonial Secretary, and Cab- Colonial Secretary for information upon inet, have had no proposition yet placed it. If he had wanted an early reply he before them which any Government could would have d'one as I have done ever since reasonably consider or reasonably give I have been in Parliament, namely, gone an answer upon. A few days before to the Minister immediately affected. The the election took place in Pilbara Minister affected would then bring the the pearlers fishing outside Hedland matter before the Premier or Cabinet. caine to me and asked me if I would Mr. Heitmann: Evidently the hon. make a promise that the Government member did not want an early reply. would advance on shell. I told them that Hon. R. H. UNDERWOOD (Honorary immediately before an election I would 'Minister): No; he wanted to get into the make no promise or any comment one Pilbara electorate to assist me into way or the other, I said that if on the oblivion. following Thursday I was returned, and Hon. Frank Wilson: He nearly did it, they camne to me and put a proposition too. before me I would give it the best con- Hon. R. H. UNDERWOOD (Honorary sideration I could. and induce the Gov- Minister): During this debate the bon. ernment to do the best they could for member for Kimnberley first, and later the them. Just before I -went to my meeting hop. member for 0-ascoyne, have stated I was warned to look out, and that these that this condition of things has been pearlers were going to make trouble for brought about solely owing to the war in me. Europe. It is quite a different tale to The Premier: The Koepangers. that which these hon. gentlemen told Hon. R. H. UNDERWOOD (Honorary when walking round the North-West Minister): These are whites, not Koe- using what they termed arguments against pangers. T may say it did not stop my the war tax. They said that the war power of speech on that occasion. This is had nothing whatever to do with it. It the position that we had to meet: that was not the war, but "Scaddan's bad ,right along the pearlers, through their financing." Now they tell us it was the representatives or of their own volition, war. have never put a definite proposition be- Hfon. Frank Wilson:- So it was. fore the Government. They simply ask us The Premier: So it was; so it is. in a bald manner to advance £120 per ton Hon. II. H. UNDERWOOD (Honor- on shell. That is a proposition that no aryw Minister) : There is another question Government under existing circumstances I would like to reply to. Almost iminedi- could accept. Under normal conditions ately the war broke out the Mayor of it would be a dangerous proposition, but Broome nrote to Sir John Forrest, the at the present time it seems to me to be [15 Dxcnnn, 19141 2595

almost a certain sacrifice of the funds of there are frequently serious riots be- the people of Western Australia. I submit tween the various races of Asiaties in that there is likely to be a serious Broomue. But very little is said about problem at Broome. No matter what may these riots on other occasions. The become of the Koepangers, Japanese, Press keeps that kind of thing very Javanese, Malays, Cingalese, Chinese, and quiet, and the white people of Broome other brands of Asiaties in Broome, the say very little on the subject. On the Governmeut of Western Australia and present occasion, however, the Press and the people of Western Australia have to people of Blroomne want to make the most remember that there are large numbers of the disturbance, and they have made of white people in that district, who will the most of it. In my judgment, this have to he looked after. And that is last riot was no more serious than many where I come in. I am not going to fly a riot which has preceded it. Now, I into heroics about the White Australia wish to express my entire agreement principle, but in reply to that remarkable with the leader of the Opposition in his dash of the member for Gascoyne (Air. statement that there is a serious posi- Gilchrist) I wish to point out that if this tion confronting us. The request made war is to break down the White Australia by the buyers cannot be considered, for principle, then it would be better for many reasons. The first reason is that Germany to take Australia. the amount of the advance asked is alto- Mr. Gilchrist: That is a ridiculous gether beyond what may be the selling position to put up. price of shell for many years to come. Hon. H. R; UNDERWOQD (Honor- I may informn those hon. members of the ary Minister) :I shall not go very closely House who do not know the pearling into what has been said. The member for position that 40 per cent. of the world's Kiimberley (Mr.* Male) has urged that shell was, previously to the war, utilised with 2,000 or 3,000 Asiatics in Broome in Austria, and that a further consider- there has been very little disorder; and able percentage went to Germany. If the hon. member said that this had never things go as we hope and believe they been known among a white population. will go, Austria and Germany will re- I wish to point out to the hon. member quire no pearl shell for a long, long that at Lake flarlot, for one instance, time. Seeing that pearls and pearl shell there was a population of something like are purely ornamental articles I can 5,000 white people- easily conceive that the people of the Mr. Male: I said a seaport. whole of Europe will not require these Hon. R. H. UNDERWOOD (Honor- articles of ornament for possibly the ary Minister) : And not a police constable next ten years. There will be many, within 300 miles of them- many things to do in Europe before the Mr. Male: Lake Darlot is not a seaport. European nations will be able to start Hon. R. H. UNDERWOOD (Honorary buying pearls and pearl shell again. Minister): And yet we never knew of one For that reason it must be realised that instance of disorder throughout those gold- the pearl fishing industry must, for the fields. Many other examples of the order- time being, cease, or practically cease.. liness of white people might be adduced. There will be no market for the shell. In regard, now, to this great struggle The proposal is that the Government which has taken place quite recently in shall advance or guarantee something Broome between two distinct races of like £50,000 to pay wages owing for the Asiatics, I wish to remind the House, if present season. The pearlers ask this bon. members have forgotten it, that this also in order that the boats may be is not the ffirst occasion on which a racial kept at sea, instead of being laid up fight has occurred. As a matter of fact, and thus deteriorating. Now, to keep racial fights are quite an ordinary thing. the boats at sea we must be prepared They do not occur annually, perhaps, but to buy the shell next year;- and, as I very nearly so. In the lay-up season have pointed out, pearl shell will not be 260 260[ASSEMB3LY.] saleable next year. This time next year if they are unable to obtain payment of pearl shell will be worth no more than the wages owing to them. There can be it is to-day. Thus, we shall have to go no.questiou of the seriousness of the situ- on and find money for the purpose of ation. I agree with the statement of the continuing the industry through an- leader of the O)pposition that the coloured other year. I say, with all due respect men are not allowed ashore except with to those who think differently, that at the permission of the authorities; but if the present juncture we have not the they are not paid what is due to them money to spare to feed a couple of and then repatriated, some other steps thousand Asiatics, when our own will have to be taken. The Asiatics will people are likely to he in serious straits not remain quietly living in places like for food and shelter. As regards the Broome, Port Hedland, and Onslow, with white population, however, I should like money owing to them by the pearlers to consult with the members for Kimber- whilst they are not permitted to obtain, Icy, Roebourne, and Gascoyne, and en- reasonable employment and to live as deavour to arrive at some concrete pro- they should. It seems to me, however? posal for assistance to the white people. that it is hardly within the province of From my own personal knowledge I am the State to make the heavy advances certain that assistance is absolutely suggested by the member for Kimnberley. necessary. I have received numerous It must be borne in mind that the Fed- eral Government reap by far the greater wires from people I know personally, from men who are as good citizens as share of the financial advantage derived arc to be found in Western Australia, from the pearling industry. As the Pre- assuring me that the difficulties of the ruler pointed out this evening, the Fed- position are becoming most acute, and eral Government have granted the pearl- that Government assistance is absolutely ers permission to indent labour from indispensable, either to enable the white various parts of Asia, The Federal Gov- people to continue to live in Broome, or ernment force the pearlers to enter into to bring the white workers and their bonds for the deportation of the Asiatics families south, and for the time being immediately on the completion of their keep them here. That is the proposition service. Farther, the Federal Govern- we are up against, the proposition which ment collect the major portion of the re- we have to meet; and I say unhesitat- venue derived from the pearling industry, ingly that with a proposition like that inasmuch as they collect Customs duties confronting us we should endeavour to and other charges. Until I moved for the in this House, it was not gen- leave party politics out of it, and do the information best we can for our white fellow citi- erally known that the pearling industry, not alone of Broome but of the whole of zens who are in distress. the North-West, contributed only £365 Mr. J. P. GARDLNER (Roebourne) 11cr annum to the Treasury of this State. (8.531: I think the member for Kim- I am excluding income tax. berley (M1r. Male) and other hon. mem- bers who have spoken, thoroughly realise. The Premier: An officer of the Taxa- tion Department had to be sent to the that the position in the pearling ports of North to compile the income tax returns the North-West has assumed a. most seri- otis aspect. We are confronted with the for the people there. position that at Broome and the other Mfr. 3. P. GARDINER. The State of ports there is a heterogeneous crowd of Western Australia has to maintain the coloured men. Ia Broome there is repre- police and other Government services in sented almost every variety of Asiatic the North-West, and undoubtedly those and coloured. man that could be men- services show a. loss to the State, absorb- tioned. As stated by the member for ing more than the total revenue derived Kimberley these Asiatics not being able by Western Australia from the pearling to thoroughly understand the position, industry. However, like the Honorary there will undoubtedly be grave trouble Miinister (Hon. R. H. Underwood) I rea- [15 DEEE, 1914.]21 261 lise that something must be done. Hordes in years to come the market value of of coloured men are congregated at the pearl shell will reach £100. At the pre- North-Western ports, through the pearl- sent juncture pearl shell has no market value. As the Honorary Minister pointed era indenting them. Money is owing to out, by far the largest proportion of these Asiatics; and, in my opinion, the pearl shell has hitherto been absorbed by pearlers should be in a position to obtain Austria and Germany. I venture to pro- that money. Notwithstanding the state- phesy that 10 years hence pearl shell will ment of the member for Kimberley that not be worth much more than £100 or there are iu Broomie 141 owners of pearl- £120 per ton. The Premier pointed out ing boats, I venture to assert that if the that some years ago, under normal condi- absolute facts could be ascertained it tions, pearl shell was worth only £80 per would he found that there are not 2U ton. In nay opinion, it is in the highest legitimate owners of pearling luggers in degree improbable that during the nest Broome. There are numbers of nominal 10 years its value will exceed £100 per owners, but how many of those have paid ton. We have to hear in mind, in con- for their boats They are nearly all in sidering the pearning industry, that the the clutches of the big merchants, such as shell is not a necessity or an essential of Riobison & Norman, who make substan- life, but merely a luxury. I do not be- tial advances on which they charge high lieve that when the war is over people interest, and then compel the small pearl- will have any time for luxuries such as er to sell his shell at a rate which pro- pearl shell. I believe that people will bably is not altogether fair, and further rather seek to promote industries whose compel him to deal at their stores. As products are of necessity or utility to the a matter of fact, it is the big merchants world in general. I was surprised to hear who own the boats; and in nearly every the member for Kimberley condemn the instance they compel the ostensible owner State steamship service, He said it had to deal entirely with them. The man who been responsible for the squandering of has acquired a lugger at a small deposit is money, whereas we know that it has ren- kept in such a position, kept so tied uip, dered valuable assistance to the north- as to be compelled to work for nothing western portion of the State. Many pas- practically; unless, indeed, hie should hap- toralists in the Honorary Minister's elec- pen to find a good pearl, which will cover torate and in mine also as well as in that his liability and so redeemn him from his of the member for Kimberley have eulog- bondage to the big merchants. I agrcq ised the service and have availed them- with the member for Kimberley that on selves of it in order that they might get Paper there are 141 owners. If, however, their stock to market. The service has we could thoroughly fathom the agree- been conducted entirely in the interests ments existing between those nominal of the pastoralists. owners and the merchants, and if we Mr. SPEAKER: I cannot allow a dis- could get to the bottom of the positirin, we should probably find that there are cussion on the State steamers. not in Broome 20 owners whose luggers Mr. J. P. GARDINER: I only desired arc not under the absolute control of the to draw attention to the hon. member's big merchants. Still, that is beside the inconsistency. He condemned the inau- question. Something must he done. If guration of the State steamship service, the Federal Government will not inter- and, by the way, I might mention that the vene, then the State Government must; people of B~roome, it was rumoured, had and I agree that some advance should he issued a circular that under no circum- made to the pearling industry, although stances were the merchants to ship goods I consider that £120 per ton is altogether by the State steamers; yet immediately a, exorbitant. I would certainly not advise lit11le trouble overtakes them, though they the Govcrnmnent to go even to the extent may have condemned everything that the of advancing £100 per ton on pearl shell. State may hard done, they approach the We have no guarantee or assurance that Government and say, "We wish you, not- 262 62[ASSEIVBLY.] withstanding your depleted revenue, to to be a large amount to advance against make advances to us or guarantee us to it even with war on, but when we find the extent of £45,000, in order that we that financial institutions, which I pre- may pay the debts we owe to Asiatics em- sume up to now have carried on that ployed by us and continue the industry." industry, are not prepared to advance I consider that the Government should go that £100 per ton without a Govern- into this matter very thoroughly. 1 an- nient guarantee, the Premier is quite ticipated that we would have had some right in shying a bit before agreeing to concrete proposition from the member for the request. He is quite right in saying Kimnberley, -but unfortunately he occu- "If these people who know the business pied the whole of his time in condemning from A to Z, and who have been in it the Premier for discourtesy. I confess all their lives are not satisfied to advance 1 am not competent to devise a scheme against a thing that had a value of whereby the industry may continue and £220 a ton, and which we ought t' as- whereby the State may obtain a fair deal. 'lime in all these industries, it woul5) I thought the member for Kinmberley realise again immediately on the con- would have submitted a tangible scheme clusion of the wvar," then lie might readily which, while assisting the industry, would say, "I am not going to guarantee £100 not have unduly burdened the State. IHe a ton or guarantee the bank's advance failed to do so, however, and Cabinet of £100." I make this suggestion: the ought, therefore, to consider the means by four members who have spoken and who which the industry might be kept going. represent the district affected say that The position is serious in Cossack, Ons- there is an urgent necessity for assist- low, and Port Hedland, and more serious ance to be given to this industry. It we know at Broome and the Government appears to us also that there is necessity should do all they can at any rate to pro- for assistance, and we do not want the tect the white people who are residing in industry wvhich has been defined as those places and who will suffer if some- one which catered for the luxurious thing is not done in the immediate future. rich rather than for the general com- Air. JAMES GARDINER (Irwin) munity, we do not want even that, worth [9.4]: We are all concerned in the fu- as it is to us half a million, to die, if ture of the pearling industry and we it can be assisted upon terms that the want to see legitimate assistance given State will say are such that the Gov- to it to tide it over its present difficulties. ernment of the day can give. The four The Premier has to recognise that each representatives of the constituencies industry must be assisted in accordance concerned have expert knowledge, and with its relative value to the State as why cannot they meet and propound a a whole. He has also to realise that the scheme for assistance instead of tearing advances he makes against this indus- one another to tatters over the benches try are such as a reasonable man would of this House. make, expecting to have them repaid. Hon. R. H. Underiiood (Honorary He hns further to ask himself that when Minister) : I have not started yet. the war is over and distress has gone, Air: JAMES GARDINER: The four has the profit of that- industry not a hon. members should reason out a value in the markets of the world, a re- scheme and go to the Premier with it. gular value. The House will rather ap- They have heard the practical lines on plaud the attitude taken up by the Pre- which he says he is willing to assist, and mier with regard to the amount to be if they will accept it, with the leader advanced. I believe that before war of the Opposition we will stand behind broke out pearl shell bad a value of it and take our share of the responsi- £220 per ton. Now, these people want bility. an. advance of £C100. If that £220 per Hon. J. MITCHELL (Northam) ton was caused by a legitimate world's [9.10]. I do not wish to deal with the demand, then £100 a ton does not seem details of the pearling industry, I only (15 DEn~Bn, 1914.J 2636 desire to point out that in England when to the wall for the sake of the little as- war broke out the necessity was em- sistance which has been asked. phasised for keeping all the industries Mr. -MALE (Kimberley-in reply) and trades going, and seeing that the [9.13]: It is not my intention to make people were kept occupied and that many remarks in reply. I do not regret nothing was stopped. Bank holidays for one moment having brought this were continued for three days at the motion before the House. I think it has end of which time the Government gave done good and I thank the Premier and guarantees for no less than three hun- other hon. members who have spoken, for dred millions sterling. How necessary their remarks. I was justified in point- is it that we here should see that our in- ing out that I had been trying to bring dustries are continued. This is the begin- the matter to a head for three and a half ning of a good many requests which will months, and I am glad to say that this be made to the Premier and the request evening I have done so. The House must of the member for Kimberley is a small realise that we are up against a difficult one after all. It is merely that the Gov- proposition aud all I regret is that the ernment should give a guarantee to the matter was not tackled earlier. It was extent of £35,000 against pearl shell. brought forward long ago, but it was de,- The Premier should have immediately tayed until now when something had to agreed to the request when it was made be done quickly. I take it from the re- to him. The Premier himself as soon as marks which have fallen from the Pre- he got into trouble went to the banks. mier that he is still willing to give some The Premier's friend and leader, the consideration to a proposition that may Prime Minister went to the banks and be of assistance to the industry. I still got ten millions of money in order that reel there are hopes that we may come he might lend some of it to the needy together on this matter. The Premier has Premier of Western Australia. The received certain advice which, until this pearling industry as well as every other evening, I was not aware of. That ad- industry in the State is the Premier's vice pointed to the risk in financing to concern, and if he can keep it going by the extent of £100 a ton against shell. merely giving a guarantee, not by pay- Probably the person who gave that ad- ing a penny in cash, he will be doing very vice is closely connected with general fin- well indeed. When it comes to the ag- ance and general hanking, but perhaps is ricultural industry, and it will come to not altogether in the know* in regard to that in a day or two, I hope every mem- this particular industry. ber will be in favour of giving it con- The Premier: I had it from other siderable assistance in order to keep it sources as well, and all were on the same going. There will be requests from basis. other industries and as each comes along Mr. MALE: I would like to read to I hope it will be treated with more con- the Premier a cable from the High Com- sideration than the Premier has given missioner in reply to one sent him last to the pearling industry. I hope the month. It is as follow:- member who makes the request will he With reference to the telegram of treated with more courtesy than was the 14th November, pearling, at pre- accorded to the member for Kimberley. .sent no new markets. Auctions post- The member for Kimberley has always poned indefinitely; home market small, been courteous to the Premier and but anticipated may increase. every hon. member has received the ut- That is a cable received from the High most courtesy at that gentleman's hands. Commissioner. He does not say there is Notwithstanding the bombastic remarks no hope for pearl shell. He says at the of the Premier, I hope he will see that present moment the a~ctioiu have ceased. this industry is helped and that the peo- We knew that. ple at Broome who have done so much Mr. Smith: What is the position at for the State will not be allowed to go Thursday Island? 264 ( ASSEMBLY.]

Mr. MALE: Exactly the same as in which is a big question when pearling is Broome. prosperous, the men were prepared to Mr. Smith: Have the Queensland take at merely nominal sum, and on the Government come to their assistance? basis of the schedule of wages drawn up Mr. MALE: I do not know. I believe on the scale of prices which would be re- all the boats there have been laid up. The quired for the supply of rations and High Commissioner says the Home mar- gear during the year, it was estimated ket is small, but it is anticipated it may that shell could be fished at a maximum increase. The Premier and one or two cost, on a 4-ton average per boat, of £130 others have stressed the fact that Aus- per ton. Dnring the past year the cost of tria and Germany are large consumers of shell has been £180 per ton. It has been shell. I admit that; but we have in Amn- asked by- different members, why the erica the consumer of more than half our pearlers are not in a better financial output. England consumes a fair quan- position than they are to-day. The bulk tity, and France does the same. of their shell is not sold until after Aug- The Minister for Mines: Is it not ust. The shell has cost them at least £180 possible to get the shipments direct to to fish, and from early in August they America 7 have not been able to realise one penny Mr. MALE: I think it will be before on the shell accumulated. long. The American factories are not The Minister for Mines: If it kb going going to close down indefinitely; but to cost that much there is no possibility American finance has been hit very hard of making advances that will allow them and they have found it almost impossible to continue. to get rid of their copper ores and other 231r. MALE: Even if the maximum products, and for the moment America, cost of a 4-ton average is £E130 per ton, like other countries, has had to stop buy- there will not be very many boats work- ing shell and use up what little stocks ing. A man who is in a position to lay up, they have on band. probably will not bother to work his boats The Minister for Mines: They have at no margin of profit at all. There are more important uses for their money just others who may be willing to wvork at now. practically no margin. It would be Mr. M~iALE: Just so, hut they have economical to work at no mar- their factories, as in England, and those gin of profit, for the reason that a factories are not going to remain idle for man would save the deterioration of his long. Although Austria and Germany boat, which would more than offset what are not buying shell at present, the world he would lose by working the boat at no will continue to require buttons, which margin of profit. Over and above that, are the backbone of the industry. the very life of the industry, the first The Minister for M$ines: What is the necessity, are the divers. If those mhea lowest sum per ton which will enable are dispersed, and leave the State, it may them to carry onaI take years to build up another set of cap- Mr. MALE: The divers and men con- able divers. They are one of the best as- nected with the industry are keen to meet sets ire have, and without the efficient, the pearler and assist him by fishing shell diver it is impossible to get the shell. at the lowest possible margin, so that Some comment has been made by the Pre- they may be kept employed. A schedule mier in regard to the combine. A combine of wages wvas drawn up which the pearl- exists amongst a certain number of boats, ens considered they might be able to pay, not for limiting the production of shell, provided they could keep going next hut for regulating its sale. That com- year. That schedule was to be submitted bine does not include one-hialf of the to the men for their consideration, and hoats fishing on this coast, and therefore I was given to understand that those it is not in any way a serious matter. men were only too willing to accept the Nor does it interfere with the quantity of conditions. In regard to advances, shell fished; it only does what is done [15 DrEEmBER, 1914.] 2656 in nearly every other industry, namely, Mr. Bolton: In the present position, attempts to regulate the sale of the pro- if I had shell and could get £100 from duct, so that the best price may be se-. the Government for it, I would take the cured. In connection with the contracts money. which have been made with the firm of Mn. MALE: I would not; I have Oehsi & Co., the Premier, from in-formia- more faith in shell. The pearl itself, of tion received, implies that the firmi is in course, is an absolute luxury, and is a position to carry out its contract. I therefore unsalable to-day. For some have received equally good information time to come, if not absolutely unsale- to the contrary. I believe some of the able, pearls will he considerably reduced contractors are taking steps to get their in value, because people will not have contracts carried out, but on legal advice money for luxuries. But when we come received from London, and from the rul- to the actual mother-of-pearl shell,, of ings of the courts in London, it has been which buttons are the backbone, when it is shown conclusively that those contracts realised that every one of you have pearl cannot at present be legally enforced. If buttons on your shirts, and that those that be the case, it would be mere foolish- buttons are in untiversal use, it will -be ness on the part of the pearlers to send realised that the shell is anything but a good money after bad, for blood cannot luxury. Of course one cannot eat it, but be squeezed out of a stone. Certainly neither can one eat copper or tin. that firm might he forced to hand over Mr. Bolton: But the metals make the its affairs to a liquidator, but that would guns. offer very little satisfaction to the indus- Mr. MALE: And the shell serves to try. The Premier has stressed the point button up the shirts of the men who use that until the pearlers have used every the guns, and for that reason it will have endeavour to assist themselves, it is not a marketable value. Even now I do not his province to come in and assist them. despair of being able to fix up something It can be conclusively proved that the with the Premier. I am still in hopes pearlers have done everything possible that we shall be able to do something, but for their own assistance. They have ap- that something must be done very quickly. proached their bankers, hut the bankers I ask leave to withdraw the motion. are not allowed to lend out money just Motion by leave withdrawnt. as they please. They have their share- holders to consider, and unless the pro- duct, whether shell, wheat, or wool, Is QUESTION - UNIVERSITY saleable, they will not make advances STUDENTS. against it. It does not matter how good Hon. J. MITCHELL asked the Min.- the security may be, unless the banks can ister for Education: 1, How many stu- see a chance of realising on it, they will dents from the Training College have not advance against it. been attending the classes in the arts Mr. Smith: Cannot they offer the faculty at the Western Australian Uni- banks any collateral security? versity, and under what conditionsl 2, iMr. MALE: They have the security of How many Government assisted students their boats, but at the present time even are attending the classes in the engineer- the boats are unsaleable. ing faculty, and under what conditions? The Minister for Works: Have they 3, How many Government assisted stu- not any other security? dents are attending the classes in the Mr. MALE: Some of them have, but aczricultural faculty, and tinder what con- some will not require assistance from ditions? either the Government or the banks. The 'MINISTER FOR EDUCATION Those who do not require assistance are replied: 1, Twenty-nine students from not going to pay interest and other the Training College attend classes in the charges for the siake of getting an ad- arts faculty at the Western Australian vance. University. The conditions are as fol- 266 268[ASSEMBLY.] low :-(a) That they have matriculated; hand the road over to the board? 12, (b) that they are given free railway Did the Minister in October of 1913 lead passes to attend the University lectures. ,the board to believe that the department 2, Eight officers in the Public Works, would place the road in repairl 13, Is Railway, and Water Supply and Drain- it a fact that the board estimates the coat age Departments attend classes in the of putting the road in repair at £438? engineering faculty. They are granted 14, Is it a fact that the departmental es- leave of absence without pay for such timate for the said work is £154? 15, time as is necessary to attend the cours. Is it a fact that he had recently with- 3, There have not been any students at- drawn his offer to put the road in repair tending the agricultural faculty this and substituted an offer to contribute £82 year. Students who intend to take this towards the work? 16, Has this offer courise must devote their first year to been refused by the board? 17, Has he science, and this practice has been fol- since demanded that the board shall re- lowed during the present year. pair the road under threats of taking "other steps"?l 18, What are the "other steps" contemplated? 19, Is he aware that the total contribution by way of QUESTION-ROAD CONSTRUCTION, rates of the whole of the settlers served BULLSBROOK. by the road is up to the present time only Hon. H,. B. LEFROY asked the Min- £7 per annum? ister for Works: 1, Did the Works De- partment in the year 1912 construct a The MINISTER FOR WORKS re- road 180 chains in length in the Swan plied: 1, The Public Works Department Roads Board district, and known as the attended to 190 chains in 1912. 2, Mr. West Road, BullsbrookV 2, At whose Jacohy, M.L.A., then member for the request was the said road constructed? District, the Swan Road Board, and the 3. What was the estimated cost? 4, IBullsbrook Progress Association. 3, The W~hat was the actual cost? 5, Did the Swan Road Board asked for £300; the Swan Roads Board protest against the estimate of the Public Works was £400 expenditure of so large a sum of money for 190 chains. 4, £406 10s. 4d. 5, Yes, on the road on the ground that it 'was giving a reason that the department did only a minor road serving a very small not make sufficient grants for mainten- number of people, whilst there 'were ance, etc., of main roads, which should many main roads in the district in need he maintained from the hoard's own of attention? 6, Ts it a, fact that three funds plus the annual subsidy. 6, No previous Ministers for Works (Mr. Price, record can be traced of such decisions. Mr. Daglish, and Mr. Johnson) had re- 7, The department did not defy the fused to make a grant for the road on the wishes of the board, but owing to repre- round that the expenditure was not jus- sentations made previously by the mem- tified? 7, Why did the department con- ber for the district, the board and the struct the road in defiance of the wishes progress association, and the reports of of the 'board? 8, Why did the Depart- officials, the department had ample evi- ment construct the road itself instead of dence that the road was neessary to placing the work in the hands of the serve the settlers. 8, At the time the roads board for the district? 9, Is it a work was under construction the depart- fact that the road was so constructed that mient. had available men and plant from although used only for light traffic it be- works which had been completed. 9, The came in so bad a condition within six road was constructed to withstand the months that the settlers had to break up traffic of the settlement served, but blaekboy trees to til up the rotsl 10, through wilful neglect of ordinary main- Is it a fact that within twelve months of tenance on the part of the board, it be- the construction of the road it became in came rutted in portions of same. 10, No. a practically impassable condition! 11, 11,-The road 'was never taken out of the When did the department first formally bands of the board. 12, In October, [15 Dncnxsr, 1914.] '0 267

1913, the Minister, after listening to re- Clause 1-agreed to. presentations made by a deputation, Clause 2-Interpretation: agreed to inspect the road, and after in- Hlon. J. MITCHELL- I move an specting to decide what degree of assist- amendment- ance, if any, should be rendered. 13, That in line $ the words "'artificial Yes, 14, Yes, to fill in the ruts, and place manures' means any chemically pre- gravel on the road. 15, No. 16, Yes, the pared fertiliser" be inserted. offer made by the department to contri- The Premier said he desired to keep the bute on the pound for pound basis was wheat in the State in order that we should refused. 17, Owing to the board's refusal have enough, and it will be just as neces- to contribute half cost, the Minister ad- sary to deal with fertilisers. It will be vised the board that other steps would be useless to put in seed if we have not fer- taken to place the road in order in the in- tilisers, and importations have almost terests of the settlers. He advised the ceased. Fertilisers should not be shipped board to reconsider the matter. 18, No away and the price should not be inflated. decision has yet been arrived at because The CHAIRMAN: This Bill was in- the board has not replied to the letter troduced for a special purpose, and the dated 13th November, 1914. 19, No. Standing Orders have been suspended to allow it to be passed. The amendment introduces another article which is en- QUESTION - MTINING LEASES, tirely foreign to the subject of the Bill, GOLDEN MILE, RENEWAL. and which to my mind is not in order. Hon. J. D. CONNOLLY asked the Min- The measure was rendered necessary by ister for Mines: 1, When did the gold- the dry season, necessitating the Stitte mining leases of the dividend-paying making provision to control foodsais mines on the Golden Mile expire? 2, -for the people, as there may he a short- Have these leases been renewed, and for age. As regards fertiisers, there is ab- what term? 3, Did the Government re- solutely no alteration in the position as ceive any consideration for these renew- compared with last year, and there is no als? 4, 'If not, why not? necessity for urgehecy. I consider the The MINISTER FOR MINEJS re- introduction of fertilisers into the mneas- plied: 1, Twenty-three leases, belonging ure is not relevant, and on that account to 11 dividend-paying companies on the I rule that I cannot allow the amendment. Golden Belt, expired on 31st December, Hon. J. Mitchell: You will notice that 1913. 2, These leases have been renewed I propose to alter the title. for a term of 21 years. 3, No. 4, Be- The CHAIRMAN: The question of cause no statutory authority existed for the title of the Bill is not now under con- demanding any special consideration.. sideration. The Bill was introduced and Hion, J. Mitchell: Why did not you passed the second reading for a certain alter the law? purpose. The intention now is to alter The MINISTER FOR MINES: I will the whole scope of the measure, and if tell you in due course. the amendment was all1owed other amend- ments, embracing machinery, harnes, and clothing, which arc entirely foreign to the BILL-TRADE DISPUTES. Bill, would have to be admitted. A simi- lar ruling was given last year. Introduced by Mr. Hudson and mrad a Hon. FRANK WILSON: In view of first time. your riling, I move an amendment- That in the definition of "foodstuff" all the words after "live stock" be de- BILL--GRA.IN AND FOODSTUFF. leed. In Committee. Under the Control of Trade in War Time Mr. Holman in the Chair; the Premier Act any commodity may be proclaimed in charge of the Bill. a necessary of life by the Governor, and 268' 288.[ASSE3iEBLY.] under this clause the definition of "food- The PRE-MIER: The leader of the stuff" mnay be extended to include any Opposition first of all assured the Corn- such commodity. mnittee that he is desirous of giving tile The CHAIRMAN: Before the hon. Government all the powers that are neces- member proceeds further, I will deal with sary for protecting the interests of the the question before the Chair. comminunity, particularly with regard to Hon. Frank Wilson: 1 thought you food-stuffs, and in the next breath he had settled that. says it is not desirable to give the G&ov- ernment power to protect the interets of The CHAIRMAN: I have given mny the community except so far as flour and ruling, but it is open to the hon. membe r grain and such commodities of the kind for Northam to dissent from it. are concerned, and that we should only Hon. J. Mitchell: I accept your rulin. take those powers which we considered Hon. FRANK WILSON: In view of essential at the present moment. I do the explanation it appears to me that the not agree with this argument. If the exe- Bill goes further than you, Sir, recognise, eutive are worth anything at all at a tinie as the legitimate scope of the Bill. Under like the present they should have almost the control of Trade in War Time Act ne- unlimited powers. There must be such cessaries of life mean such products, powers because we cannot keep Parlia- goods and chattels as the Governor may ment sitting from day to day to meet by proclamation declare to he necessaries every emergency that arises. We must of life for the purposes of the Act. Apart have an executive to act for Parliament, fromi that I think the measure goes too and for the people after Parliament rises, far. In the South Australian Bill, which and we most have power to do anything we are supposed to have copied to a large that is essential to protect the public, and extent, the legislaiion is limited to fodder, we nmust also carry the responsibility. We hay, chaff, bran, or any other commodity have already discovered that in some di- of life used for the feeding of live stock. rections there is a possible shortage of The extensive powers sought under this food supplies and necessaries of life. measure are not given. I view with somec We are asking for powers to prevent that misgiving legislation of this kind and shortage, or what might be a shortage be- think it is calculated to upset ordinary coming a certain shortage, and difficulties channels of commerce. The difficulty is arising in some months to come. We have as to where we are going to stop. The no guarantee that there will be no short- more wve can allow commerce to pursue age in other lines, and if such a shortage its ordinary channel the better it will be arises the executive should have power to for the State, and 'we do not want to in- control the supplies as in the case of the terfere with it unless it is absolutely other commodities mentioned. It is necessary. Whilst I am at one in giving merely a, question of giving power to the Government all the powers necessary meet conditions not only which now arise to protect the foodstuffs 6f the comn- but which may arise in the future. If munity, and acquire foodstuffs if neces- the executive can be trusted 'with the sary for the purpose of preventing their other po-wers contained in the Bill they export from our shores, I do not want to can surely be trusted with the balance of see a power of this description exercised the powers. It is a measure which should perhaps in an unwise direction. The be operated with duec care and caution, Government would be wise only to ask but there is not the slightest intention on for such powers as they deem necessary the part of the Government to put it into at the present juncture. If the Premier operation if it can be avoided. will agree to confine this measure to food- Hon, James Mitchell:- You do not want stuffs such as flour and grain, and pro- it in regard to potatoes. duets of that description, he will be do- ing ranch better than if he tries to get The PREMITER : We might. Then absolute power such as is included in the there is just the possibility of a shortage definition. in Australia of mutton at no distant date. [15 DsEcnrng, 1914.] 2696

Already through a recurrence of bad sea- duced. The fact of imports of grain sons there has been a tremendous loss of being free from the producing couintries sheep in Western Australia, this year of the world will pretty well keep the perhaps more than any other. The other price of flour within reasonable bounds. States have been suffering in the same I look upon the legislation as only neces- way, and there may be a shifting of mut- sary to retain what we had got in the ton before Parliament meets again. With- State and not to interfere with prices. out the powers contained in this Bill we I want the farmer to have full value for should be unable to do anything. We his product. discovered immediately we appointed the The Minister for Mines: Do you mean Commission under the Control of Trade the price is regulated by supply and de- in War Time Act that there was a short- mand?7 age in cream of tartar, so that we had to Hon, FRANK WILSON: The prices keep a close watch on its movements. regulated by the world'Is markets. If Hon. members will know that cream of we are an exporting State our market tartar is essential in the making of self- value is the price we can get in the raising flour. There is only a limited markets of the world) less the cost of quantity of this stuff available. transit. If we are an importing State, Hon. J. MITCHELL: While it is as we are soon likely to be, the market necessary to give power to deal with price is that at which we can land our grain or the purchase of grain there is no product at the nearest port from the reason at all why the Government should producing countries. seek to have power in regard to potatoes Mr. James Gardiner. The Prime Min- or fruit that they would not possess in ister said. they could import it for 5s. the ordinary way. 8d. from Chicago and laud it in Austra- The Minister for Mines: We cannot lian ports. say what wilt be neeessary a few months Hon. FRANK WILSON: That is the hence. market value plus the cost of getting Hon. J. MITCHELL: We do not want it from the port to an inland market. to restrain people from developing their If we give these drastic powers to tho land, and we want the biggest possible Government a position of affairs will be output from them. The Premier has created that will interfere with the op- made out a good ease from his point of erations of producers and traders, in view for the control of chaff and grain that they will know that the Govern- and hay, but no case at all for the con- ment can at any time commandeer stocks trol of any other product. at their own price. The hoard has to Hon. FRANK WILSON: The danger negotiate. There is an appeal to the in legislation of this sort is of restrict- Commission, but live know -what that ing instead of encouraging. We want means. The price that is fixed is thd to encourage people to trade as freely price that the Government will pay. as they have done in the past. From the interjections of our friends The Minister for Works: The Bill will opposite it is evident that they are seek- not aiffect that in the least. ing to get something cheaper than the Hon. FRANK WILSON: I have only market price, for the benefit of the con- the Minister's word for that. sumer. The Attorney General: One of the The Attorney General: This is a sec- objects of the Bill is to assist produe- ond reading, speech. tion. Ren. FRANK WILSON: Let the Hon. FRANK WILSON : I * have clause be limited to actual necessaries some hesitation in supporting the incas- of life. nre. New that the Federal Government Mr. WANSBROUGH: The am end- have removed duties on grain there is no meat would defeat the vital object of urgency for legislation of this sort, as the measure. The member for Northam was the case when it was first- intro- (Ron, J. Mitchell) mentioned potatoes 270 270ASSEMBLY.] as a product which should not be inter- Honl. J. MITCHELL: Do I under- fered with, but potatoes are certainly stand from the Premier that he will con- among the necessaries of life. The ap- fer with the leader of the Opposition and plication of this measure depends upon the leader of the Country party in mak- the board to he appointed. As a farmer ing the appointments, or that nomina- I have no distrust of the Government or tions may be sent in by those leaders? of any hoard which may be appointed In that case there will not be much. ob- by the Government. If we exempt one jection to the clause, but there should necessary of life, we must exempt the be a business man on the board. lot. In a few monthis meat wvill he a seri- The Minister for Works: Are not ous question, and therefore meat should civil servants business men! be included now, instead of our being Hon. J. MITCHELL: I wish the Pre- called together a little later on, when mier to give me an assurance that there it will be very inconvenient for us to will be a business representative on the assemble, to provide for its inclusion. Amendment put and negatived. board. Clause put and passed. The PREhMR: I do not feel called Clause 3-Constitution and appoint- upon to give to every member of the ment of board: Chamber, as he rises in his place, an as- Mr. THOMSON: I move an amend- surance of what I will do. I have al- ment- ready given an assurance that I will That the following words be added consult the leaders of the Opposition and to Subolause 2 :-"Provided that no of the Country party in regard to the civil servant shall be appointed as a personnel of the board. The Govern- member." ment, after all, have the final responsi- My desire is to remove any possibility bility of the appointments; and if one of political influence being exercised on member of a party sitting opposite sug- the board. gests a person whom we, in our discre- The Minister for Works: Political tion, consider absolutely impossible as influence is more likely to come in if a member of the board, we will not re- there are no civil servants on the hoard. commend His Excellency the Governor to appoint that person. I do not give an Mr. JAMES GAjRDINER: If the Gov- assurance that any names suggested by ermnent in their wisdom saw fit to put the leader of the Opposition or by the Mr. Sutton on the hoard, then this leader of the Country party will be ac- amendment, in preventing Mr. Sutton 's cepted by the Government. appointment, would deprive the farm- ing community of the services of a man Mr. THOMSON: The Premier states for whom they have the profoundest that I gave no reasons for my amend- trespect, and whose heart is in assisting mnent. I will only say that I thought we them. I am taking it for granted that were endeavouring to push on with we will try. between the three parties, business. If the board consisted of a to have our representatives. The Coun- business man, a larmer, and a solicitor, try party will oppose the amendment. there would be a combination capable The PREMIER: I hope the amend- of dealing with the knotty problems that ment will not be carried. I hardly under- will arise. Mr. Sutton is a member of stand the object of the mover, who gave the Foodstuffs Royal Commission now no reasons. Undoubtedly, the amend- sitting, and so could hardly he a memn- ment is a reflection upon hoth the Gov- her of the board, seeing that appeals ernment and the public service. I give lie from the board to the Royal Com- no guarantee as to whether there will or mission. Civil servants may possess the will not be a Government servant ap- experience required on the hoard, but an pointed to the Board. Possibly, a worse independent hoard will result in better man might be obtained from outside the working. service than could be obtained within it. Amendment put and negatived. [15 DEE imE, 1914.1]7 271

Clause put and passed. operations of the Act the legitimate re- Clauses 4, 5-agreed to. quirements of the holder. There may be Clause 6-Who to preside at meet- men who are honest and will say, "Those ings: are my requirements" and the board will Mr. TAYLOR: In regard-to Subelause not desire to penalise them. We do not 2, the Premier on second reading said want others to hold requirements that that the Chairman would have his cast- are not legitimate. ing, as well as his deliberative, vote, The PREMIER: I hope the member only when two members of the board sat, for Katanning -will withdraw his amend- not when the full board sat. menit, because what he desires is covered The PREMIER: I said the Chairman by what the leader of the Country party could not exercise a casting vote when has suggested. three members sat, because the condi- Rion. Frank Wilson: Will You accept tions prevented it. With only two mem- the amendment of the member for Iriia bers present, the chairman must exer- The PREMIER: Yes cise his casting vote in the case of dis- Mr, THOMSON: I am prepared to agreement. We want decision; and, withdraw my amendment so long as the after all, the final responsibility rests farmer is protected; that is all I desire. with the chairman. Amendment by leave withdrawn. Mr. JAMES GARDINER: I move an Mr. Taylor: If he has power to exer- cise both votes he can bring things to a amendment- standstill. That the following proviso be added to the clause :-"Provided that the hon. member mnis- The PREMIER: The Board on being fully satisfied as to understands the meaning of a casting quantities required may exempt from vote; it only operates 'when there is equal- the operations of this Act the legiti- ity of Voting. mnate requirements of the holder." Clause put and passed. Hon. J1. MITCHELL: I am not quite Clauses 7 to 11-agreed to. so hopeful that the Board will act reason- C!lause 12- Method of exercising ably. If this amendment is carried, my Board's power to acquire: notice of amendment will not be neces- Mr. THOMSON: I move an amend- sary. I eannot, however, accept it unless met- the word "may" is altered to "shall." I That at the end of line 2 the follow- move an amendment on the amendment.-- ing words'- be added :-"This section That the word amavl; be struck out shall not apply to grain or foodstufifs and "shall" insefled in lieu. reasonably required by the producer Hon. H. B. LEFROY:- I agree with for the purpose of carrying on his the member for Northam that it should business. be made compulsory. I bad prepared an All that I am aimin&g at is that the farmer amendmnt which was to the effect that shall be in the position to conserve all the the Board should not have the power to seed and chaff that he may require to acquire compulsorily any grain or food- carry him on until the following season. stuff upon a declaration being made that The Premier: The new clause the mnem- the owner required it for his own use. ber for Tortharn proposes to move will If one wants to send stock away by rail cover that. at the present time, for purpose of de- Mr. JAMES G-ARDINER: I had a pasturing, it is necessary to put in a de- new silbelause to propose, but I did not claration that it is intended to bring that intend to go quite so far as the member stock back again. for Katannine. Mfine. was more in accord The PREMIER: Hon. members should with that of the memher for Northam take a reasonable view of the Bill as a and it was to the effect that the hoard whole, and bear in mind the fact that, upon beine fnlly satisfied as to the quan- while we have to definitely lay down cer- tities required, may exempt from the tain principles, there are other essentials 272 272[ASSEBMBLY.]

which we should leave to the discretion At a full meeting of the above associa- of the board, or commission; and so long tion held to-day a discussion took place as we direct the board to take into ac- on the Bill which is now before the count the ownet-s own requirements, it House, dealing with foodstuffs, and it ought to be sufficienit. If wve insert "shall" was thought that the association we open uip grounds for litigation and might help) the Government if an un- delay, because the farmer will object that dertakiug were given by the associa- he requires the stuff, and the board can- tion not to sell flour for export until not thenr go any further. such time as the Control of Trade Hon. J. MITCHELL:. I wish the ques- Commission is satisfied that the seed tion to be put' benyonid doubt. Tie farmer wheat anid food requirements of the should lie allowed to keep feed for his State are assured. As chairman of the association I have pleasure in giving animals, anid seed for his crop. Already, under the Foodstuff Act, a great deal this undertaking, arid also attach here- to a list of the various has beern done which should never have milling com- been done, and we mnay expect the same panies whielh are members of the as- from the administration of this measure. sociation. (Signed) W. Padhury. The members of the association are: Mr. HUDSON: I appreciate the com- The Peerless Roller Flour M1ills,' Guild- pliment paid by the memuber for Katan- ford;, Ockerby & Co., Ltd., Perth; ning when he suggested that I should be Perth Roller Flour Mills; York Flour appointed a member of the board. How- Milling Co., Ltd.; James Gillespie, ever, I do not think he contemplated the Ltd., Northam; Great Southern Flour nmber nf anienducists likely to he made Mills, Ltd., Narrogin; F. & C. Piesse, in the clause, or hie would have had more Katanning; and William Thomas & cozisideration for me. It would be better Co., Ltd., Nort ham. if the movers of all the various amend- They have all undertaken not to export ments -were to retire and confer as to any flour until the Commission are satis- the best form in which to express those fied that wve have sufficient for our own amendments. We might then be able to requirements. .The a.ction of the millers get along. is one upon -which we may well congratu- Amendment (Hon. J1. Mitehell's) on late them. If there is to be a shortage amendment put and negatived. they are not going to be responsible for Amendment ('Mr. James Gardiner's) having brought it about. In these cir- put and passed; the clause as amended cumatlances I am satisfied that the board agreed to. will not he called upon to do much ex- cept, perhaps, where they may find stored Clause 13-Price to he as agreed, or as large quantities of wheat suitable for fixed by Commission under the Control seeding purposes. of Trade in War Time Act: Hfon. J. MITCHELL: Why the three The PREMIER: I move an amend- months9 inent- The Premier: The Chamber of Com- That after the word "shall" in line merce suggested it. 1, the words "within three months" be Hon. J. MITCHELL: The hoard is inserted. not going to bhuy wheat from the Chamn- This amendment is in response to a re- ber of Commerce but from the farmers. quest whieh I received to-day from the There is no reason why the Premier Chamber of Commerce. I also received a should iiot pay cash, as the millers do. I letter to-day from the W.A. Flour Ifil- do not mind agreeing to 30 days, al- lers' Association, who appreciate the fact though I think it should be cash. The that the Bill is intended, in part, to pre- board will have to pay when the Premier vent wheat gristed in Western Australia hands over the money. being sent out of the State in the form of Mr. JAMNES GARDINER: Provision flour. The letter is as follows- is made for interest. I have an amend- [15 D)EcEmaER, 1914.] 2737 ment providing that a certificate shall be Mr. WAN SBROTJGH: The suggestion given showing the amount, when and of the Chamber of Commerce will over- where payable, and that the date of pay- come the difficulty in the ease of a farmer ment shiall not be more than three from whom a quantity of wheat is ac- months. We do not want to be unrea- quired by the board. The insertion of sonable. If the Government make pro- the words will fix a time limit within vision for the payment of interest, the which hie can expect payment, and it will people I represent will be satisfied so be a negotiable security which wvill be al- long as the certificate is limited to three most as good as cash, seeing that he will months, which will make it practically be getting interest on the money. a marketable security. Hon. J. MITCHELL: The farmer is Hon. J. MITCHELL: Unless the entitled to payment and members will be words are inserted the Premier could be allowing the Premier to buy whben be made to pay cash. likes and to take three months' terms. To Mr. James Gardiner: He must pay in- say that these certificates, bearing five terest if there is delay. per cent, interest, will be equal to cash, The Premier: I do not think the court is absolute nonsense. The miller might would uphold the interpretation of the get money for six per cent., but for a re- member for Northam. presentative of the farmers to say they can get money at five per cent. is Hon. J. MITCHELL: The Premier ridiculous. has made use of the Chamber of Com- merce to get protection for himself. If Mr. James Gardiner: No one said so. he takes a man's goods he should pay for You arc always irresponsible iii your them and pay promptly. statements, Mr. Bolton : The representative of the Hon. J. M1ITCHELL: I am never irre- farmers is satisfied. sponsible. The hon. member who just Mr. James Gardiner: The board would spoke said a farmer could go to the not be buying for themselves. bank and get the money. The member for Irwin, on the second reading, dis- The PREMIER: The member for cussed this point, and said there would Northam should accept the advice of the be a term in the certificate in order that member for Irwin and be reasonable. sellers' might have a negotiable doeu- Provision is made for the payment of ment. interest if the amount is not paid promptly, which would be accepted as 30 Mr.: James Gardiner: That is what they days in accordance with the trade ar- are giving us. rangement. Without seeking their ad- Hon. J. MITCHELL: If no one else vice the Chamber of Commerce vxrote will say a word for the small farmers, 1 suggesting three months. will. Mr. Hudson: Have they also fixed a Mr. PIESSE: Although the method month as a reasonable time for pay- proposed seems unbusinesslike, we should ment? recollect that the Government have under- The PREMIER: I think that is the taken a big task to assist the farmers. We custom of the trade. I will be imposing recognise the financial position of the a penalty on myself if I do not pay State, 1 take it that a bill will be given promptly, because interest will he pay- bearing interest, and that it will be pos- able from the time the certificate is given. sible to discount the bill at the bank, I will not give an inspector £2,000 or Hon. Frank Wilson: No, simply a cer- £3,000 to carry around in his pocket uns- tificate, til he can purchase some wheat. Mr. PLESSE: I take it the certificate Hon. J. Mitchell: Millers; pay cash. wiUl be a bill. If the bill is discounted The PREM.XIER: The maximum of there will be a slight loss, but if the three months is inserted on the advice of farmers who have wheat to sell know those who know best. that the bulk of the grain is being ac- 274 274[ASSEMBLY.] quired to assist those without wheat, they to be misrepresented or misunderstood, will willingly make some slight sacrifice. and the credit of the State damaged. We Mr. Munsie: If they do not do it wil- have been able to pay cash for all the lingly, they should be compelled to. wheat purchased-and there has been a Mr. PIESSE: It is the custom to pay considerable amount-and I may add that cash in the ordinary course of business. thi has been purchased for the purpose It is essential in the circumstances that a of tiding farmers over their difficulties. large sum of money should be required One would imagine from the remarks of to help the farmers over their present members oposite that the Government had difficulty, and I hope some consideration been refusing to pay for claims against will be given to them. them for the purchase of these food- The Premier: Whatever cost we are stuffs. I see no reason why we should put to through the measure from the not continue to pay on a cash basis as in point of view of seed wheat will be re- the past. I think it was the hon. member paid by the farmers. for Northam (Hon. J. Mitchell) who suig- gested a compulsory system Mr. PIESSE: If the certificates that by which we are given are not negotiahle hardship will should pay within a period of, I think, be inflicted. If the purchase price is six months. paid by bills the bills can be discounted. Hon. J. Mitchell: I ask the Premier to Hon. H. B. LEFROY: At the present withdraw that statement; I did not make time farmers are getting cash from the it. millers for their wheat. This Bill pro- The PREMIER: I stand corrected. At poses that the Government can stop the all events the hon. member discussed the millers from buying, and only purchase question of compelling the Government under a three months' bill. to pay within a certain period. The Premier: That is not correct. Hon. Frank Wilson: I did. Hon. H. B. LEFROY: It means that. The PREMIER: The hon. member only Further, it means that they pay the echoed it; he must have said it by way farmer five per cent., whereas the latter of interjection. The Chamber of Com- could have got cash from the millers. merce at all events requested it. We had The Minister for Lands: It does not say a provision in the Bill for cash payment, they will not get cash. but the Chamber of Commerce sought to The Premier: Who said we will not make a limit of three months the maxi- pay cash. mum period in which the sellers should Hon. H. B. LEFROY: The Govern- receive payment, so that they would ment have power to withhold the money know for certain, that is, within three for three months and pay five per cent. months, that they could get the cash and on it. It is certainly hard upon the far- could act accordingly. mers, and an unreasonable position to Mr. GRIFFITHS: So far as pay- place before the members. It is not right ment is concerned, we are quite satisfied that those who have wheat to sell should that the three months is only the madc- be placed in a different position from that mum period that the Premier is asking under which they could sell to the millers for. or to someone else. The Premier: I did not really ask for The PREMIER: I wish to remove any it. possibility of the remarks of Mr. Lefroy Mr. GRIFFITHS: We realise that the being circulated without saying something documents can be placed in the bank and by way of refutation. These remarks are that advances can be made against them. calculated to do the State a tremendous We have no complaints about the matter amount of harm. All the business that at all. I think hon. members have failed this hardup Government has transacted to see that there is storage, which the since 1911 in the way of purchasing Government are proposing to pay. It wheat from the farmers has been on a has been suggested to me that 6 per cent. cash basis. I do not wish the position should have been the amount fixed. I am [15 DEosnanx, 19314.]27 276 somewhat inclined, however, to waive the do not agree on a price they can go, by point of storage. way of appeal, before the Commission, Mr. S. STUBBS: We have wasted a who will then fix the price for the parties. good deal of time. I wish that all the The measure, however, does not say that. transactions I have on my books were on It says that if the parties do not agree. the same basis as the present transactions then after 14 days the price is to be fixed that are being operated on behalf of Lbs by the Commission, who may fix it quite Government in the Wagin district for arbitrarily, without hearing- anybody at fodder. The conditions are plain and all. My amendment is to the effect that; straightforward; directly you deliver the the parties may appear before the Corn- product on the rail-way station and the mission and discuss the question. weights are given and checked, the sove- The Premier: But it is provided that reigns are there. It is only wasting the one party or the other must apply to the time of the House to go on. Commission. Amendment put and passed. Mx. ROBINSON: But the other party Hon. J. MITCHELL: I move an may not be called on. My amendment amendment- is to move the Commission to give effect literally to what the Premier stated in (a) of Sub clause That in paragraph moving the second (1) the word "and" be struck out, and reading. that after the word "owner" the fol- The PREMIER: I have no objection lowing be inserted:- "and other person to the amendment, which is exactly what or persons claiming to be interested!' is intended, and what is provided for by It may happen that the owner is not the the Bill. only person interested; and if another Mr. ETISON: I do Dot think there person claims to he interested the board is any necessity at this stage to intro- should listen to him. duce machinery clauses for the purpose The PREMIER: My only objection to of endeavouring to bring the parties be- the amendment is that it may pine ob- fore the Commission. At a later stage stacles in the way of the operation of the of the Bill provision is made to give measure. For instance, it may be neces- the Government power to wake regula- sary to take immediate possession and at tions, for the carrying out of the measure, once to fix a price because the owner and those regulations will provide machin- would not be available at a later date. ery for bringing the parties before the The board, if not satisfied as to owner- Commission. ship, would pay the amount into court. The PREMIER: The amendment Apparently, what the mover wishes to merely repeats what is in the Royal provide is that, before a deal is com- Commissioners'I Powers Act. pleted. any person interested may, if he Amendment put and passed. so desires, step in and question the price Mr. JAMES GAIRDINER: With re- fixed between the board and the owner. gard to Subelause 3. The Country party I fear that under this amendment it are rather in a difficulty over this ques- would be incumbent on the board to ad- tion of the Royal Commission, We were vertise every transaction, giving say 30 particularly anxious that instead of a days' notice. Commission there should be a Comrais- Amendment put and negatived. aioner, and we should have been glad to Mr. ROBINSON: I move en amend- insert Mir. Sutton's name there. I quite men t- appreciate the position of the Govern- That the folloing be added to para- ment in this respect. Whilst the action nraph (b) of Subclause (1) :-"After of the present Commission may not be hearing the parties and any evidence satisfactory to us, the Government al- then maye icish to call."1 ways owe an obligation to stand by the The Premier. stated to the leader of the people whom they have appointed. I do Opposition that the meaning of para- not wish to make any observation fur- graphs (a) and (b) is that if the parties ther than that I should be glad to have 276 [ASSEMBLY.]

the Premier's assurance that, when it should hear the appeals and that some- comes to a matter of fixing prices, the one else should do the bargaining. member who knows all about the sub- The Premier: There will be fewer ap- ject shall fix them. peals if Mr. Sutton remains on the The P3REMIIER: I can hardly do that. board. T know what the hon. member desires. We all appreciate the fact that Mr. Sut- Hon. FRANK WILSON: There are ton is a wheat expert and that he knows bound to be a number of appeals es- the relative values of the different pecially at the beginning. classes of wheat. Any business man The Premier: There are not likely to might be able to fix the price for f.a.q. be any at all. milling wheat but the relative values can Mr. THOMSON: I move an amend- qnly be fixed by an expert. Mr. Sutton ment- is a member of the Commission and That the following be added to stand there is nothing in the Bill to prevent as paragraph (c) of Subelause I:-- him from being a member of the Board. "The price so fixed shall be what the Mr. Thomson: You would have an ap- Commission consider to have been the peal from Caesar to Caesar. market value of such grain or foodstuff The PREMIER: The board that will 'at the place and at the time where and operate here will be merely a board 7chen it wras acquired." that will be operating under a machin- The intention is to prevent the export cf ery measure. I want to avoid too much flour. in the nature of appealing and I want The Premier: No. someone on the board who will deal Mr. Munsie: To prevent the increase fairly with the seller as well as with iii price. the State. There is nothing to prevent M r' THOM SON: That is just the re- Mr. Sutton being a member of the hoard ply I wanted. My intention is to see that as well as the Commission. the man who has produced the wheat gets Hon. Frank Wilson: It is not desir- the market value. The Premier able. rather ridiculed my remarks on the The PREMIER: He is acting now as second reading that the question such. This Bill is to some extent merely of supply and demand regulated the legalising the ation wvhich has already price of wheat. In a season such been taken by Mr. Sutton and I have as we are having now, it is regu- not heard any complaints. There have lated by supply and demand. In a nor- not been any appeals up to date. Some- mal year the price in Western Australia one said why appeal from Caesar to is regulated by London parity. What Caesar. We do that in all our Courts bit has created the high prices which are be- there is always someone sitting with ing given for wheat in Western Australia the justice who first heard the ease. to-day?~ Simply that there is a demand Hon. FRANK WILSON: There is no and a possible shortage. I want to quote appeal against *,%r. Sutton's transactions; the figures, which were used in the House he is acting like any other buyer. Uin- last Thursday. At Adelaide the quote der this Bill there is compulsory pur- for wheat was from 5s. 71 2d. to 5s. l0d. chase and the buyer first of all has to fry To bring that wheat to Fremantle would to come to terms with the owner of the cost 9d. per bushel, raising the price to wheat, or it may be mutton or beef. The 6is. 41/d. Even on the Sydney basis of board has to try and arrange with the 4s. 6d., which was the price for old wheat, owner, and if they come to loggerheads, with a cost of 11%/4 . for bringing it to then there is an appeal to the Commis- Fremantle we reach 5s. 5id. In sion. It is hardly right for a gentleman Melbourne the quote was 6s. 9d. it who has been trying to strike a bargain would cost 91/2d. to bring it here, or a to sit on the Commission to hear the ap- total of 7s. 6/ 2d. I am quoting these peal. I would prefer that Air. Sutton figures to show that the price of wheat [15 DECEMBER, 1914.]27 277 in this State is governed by the law of Tbe PREMIER: In the Federal Par- supply and demand. liantent it was recently asserted that Air. Heitrnann: Absolute rubbish. wheat could he landed in Australia for Mr. THOM1SON: Thank you. A .s. 93d. a bushel. That is a difference uf certain farmer in our district has not had 6d1., and if we looked around a little more a crop for three years. This year he we might be able to get it for is. 6d. The has 27.0 acres of wheat from which hie ex- Government do not intend to purchase pects a five-bushel yield at 5s. 6d. That whbeat for their own use, or to make a will represent £371 5s. But putting in profit out of it. We will be acting as a that wheat cost him £,54 for seed, £33 _10s. middleman -with money, purchasing wheat for fertiliser, £40 for homse-feed, £15 15s. for the farmer to enable him to put in a for bags, £4 Ils, for freight on manures, crop. The hon. member detailed the cost £!8 2s. for insurance, £18 for a man help- of putting in a crop last year. He should ing at harvesting, and £9 10s. for ma- take into account the cost of putting in chinery breakages, or a total of £183 8s, a crop next year, by men -who are up to That leaves him £187 17s., out of which their ears in debt, and who, it thrown on he has to pay £30 for rent and £07 by their own resource, would be bankrupt. way of instalments on machinery, or If we are to save these men we cannot £:127, leaving him £60 17s. on which to make them pay such a price that even live and pay his other bills. with a good harvest they will only be able Mr. James Gardiner- And hundreds to pay their way. We want them to have not that much. recover. I will agree to the amendment Mr. THOMSON: It is only too true. subject to there being no further appeal. But a man who has struggled for years Let the Commission fix a price on the in the way this man has done should not market value at the time, and at the place be penalised by having the price fixed at where the grain is taken, hut make their below the market value. If the Commis- decision flinal. No one desires litigation. sion fix the price at 5is. a bushel this un- We -want a measure which will give a fortunate individual will have less thtan direction to the Conmnission, and the mat- £30 with which to buy his stores and ter should be left to the Commission. carry on. Mr. Robinson: The Bill does not Mr. James Gardiner: Why argue suggest any further appeal. about what the Commission will fix? The PREMTER: The clause would en- The PREITER: The bon, member has able any person to move the courts to endeavoured to explain how to fix the make the Commission show that they market value. H~e forgets that the Bill fixed the price on the market value. deals with more than wheat. I do not; Ron. J. 'MITCHELL: If ihe Premier wvant endless litigation over such a mea- can land wheat here at 6is. 4d. there is no, sure. I want to be fair to the man whi, need at all for, the Bill. The proposal of has at lot of wheat to buy, as well as to the member for Katanning is absolutely the man who has a little to sell. We art necessary; a man should have a right to not likely to appoint a board who will protect himself in the courts. The price deal unfairly with the producers. The of wheat was fixed at 4q. 6d- to the hion. member is not clear on the question farmer. hut the miller was not troubled. of fixing a market value. His idea would The miller has been selling flour at a price not hold good in any court of law, nor which would enable him very easily to pay would it be entertained by a business Gs. a bushel for wheat. juan. If we were going to fix the market The Premier: But he also entered into value of wheat here it would be necessaryv contracts long since when wheat was pur- to look around the world for wheat. I chasable at 3s. 6d. have a quotation of 6s, 3d. for wheat Hon, J. MITCHELL: The prices of landed at Fremantle. flour to-day is £12 Perth and £11 17s. 6id. Hlon. Fra-nk Wilson: I have been telling Northam, and the price of offal is £5 15s., you that all along. making a total of £17 12s. Od. Wheat 278 278[ASSEMBLY.) bought at 6s. is equal to £15, and an addi- wheat chiefly for the farmer, and I en- tional £2 for milling makes a total of £17. tirety agree with that. There is nothing Millers who have sold flour at a cheap to stop the Premier buying at 6s. 4d. and rate would surely cover themseres by selling it to the farmers at 4s. 6id. The purchases as soon as they had sold. general taxpayer should bear the burden Whilst the farmers are compelled to take and not those who have only a small 4&. Gd. for the wheat the miller has been quantity of wheat, In t he district repre- allowed to get Os. for it. Is that fair? seated by 'Mr. James Gardiner and my- The Premier: That is not correct. self, and indeed in most other districts, the price should at least be sufficient to Hon. J. MITCHELL: The Commission of cropping. When the appointed uinder the Control of Trade in cover the cost Premier says to the farmer that he ought War time Act have acted most illegally to give something to the man who is less in many cuses. Here is an advertisement fortunate, he is asking the man 'who has which says that where persons holding already lost on his cropping costs to give. stocks are refraining from selling in case the new season's wheat is not of such The Premier: I do not suggest that. good quality for seed purposes as the old Hon. J. MITCHELL: If the Premier's wheat, the Commission are prepared to contention is right that he can get wheat consider applications to retain the old at 6s. 4d., then let him drop the Act. wheat and substitute an equivalent quan- Mr. MUNSIE: The whole of the dis- tity of new wheat in a period to be cussion, particularly on the amendment, agreed upon. If the farmer keeps his has been as to whether the Government wheat he must put on the market from have the right to give the full market his new wheat an equivalent quantity at value at the place at which the wheat is 4.s. Gd. Is that fair? The Commission purchased for the sake of giving seed had no power at all uinder the Act to wheat to the man who is unfortunate publish this advertisement. They have enough to have no crop. I hope the Com- written to people calling attention to the mission will take into consideration, not fact that the seed has not been sold, and only the man who has not got seed, but advising them to sell. I have a letter the hundreds and thousands of individu- dated 26th November, and the last para- als in this State who are not interested graph of the letter reads-"lUnlcss the in agriculture or the farming industry at surplus over your personal requirements all, and who have just as much right to for seed is made available for sale the be considered. The community that I Commission must enforce the penalties represent is the goldfields community, under the Control of Trade in War Time that does not grow wheat whether the Act." The Commission have no power to season is good or bad. do anything of the sort. The Act provides Mr. E. B. Johnston: But they put a that one person may claim from another. lot of money into wheat farms. There is no offence committed under Mr. MUNSLE: That is so. I contend refusal to deliver to the person claimed. that the Commission should take into con- It provides further that if a claim is sideration the fixing of a price that would made a person has to be convicted before be. a f'iir price for the fur to be gristed the Commission can take any action at froin the wheat in order that the people all. It is iniquitous and scandalous that may have a reasonable chance of getting such a thing can happen and that the bread at a reasonable price. Government, knowing that it has hap- Ron. Prank Wilson: What is your pened. should be willing to allow it to be idea of a fair price? continued. I would like to have an 3Mr. MFUNSIE: About 5s. 9dc. is a fair amendment inserted as proposed by the price. member for Katanning, because I think Hon. Frank Wilson: Then why arc we ought to have the power to move the you asking 4s. 6d.1 board if we are unjustly and unfairly The PREMIER: I have no objection treated. The Premier says he wants seed to the Commission being directed to give [15 Dxcanxau, 1914.])7 279 the market value for the wheat they re- is good enough for South Australa quire, but I do object to putting it in surely it is good enough for us. The such a way that we may afterwards have Premier in introducing the Bill assured a fair amount of litigation because of us that it was an exact copy of the some dispute as to how they arrived at South Australian measure. such a basis, and to prove to the court The Premier: I did not say so. that the value fixed is not the market Mn. THOMSON: I may have misun- value. The South Australian Act is very derstood the hon. gentleman, andI ac definite on the point. I propose that the cept the correction. I trust the Com- Commission in fixing the price shall have mittee will carry my amendment. regard to the market value at the time the Mr. ROBINSON: I offered a sugges- commodity is acquired. But that is not tion with 'a view to meeting what I be- compulsory or mandatory to the extent lieve to be the wishes of both sides of the of compelling the Commission to fix the House. The Premier suggested that price on the basis of the market value. there should be no appeal. I suggested The directiou to the Commissioners is to him that we might add to the words that they shall have regard to the market which the member for Katanning (Mr. value at the time they acquire the com- Thomson) proposed to insert, the follow- modity. That will effect exactly -what the ing: "And the decision of the Coinmittee member for Katanning (Mr. Thomson) shall be final." The Premier wishes it to desires, and I think it should meet the read that the Commission shall have re- wishes. of all members. gard to the market value; but theyL need Mr. THOMSON: I hope the Premier not take any notice of the market value. will accept my amendment. The hen. These circumstances will lead to endless gentleman has repeatedly stated that he litigation. I am with hon. members every has no intention of injuring any section time in attempting to preveat litigation. of the community, and therefore he What I propose is common sense, which should raise no objection to the insertion must appeal to anyone who has brains. of the clause I propose- It is entirely The PREMIER: I asked the Parlia- unfair to injure one section of the com- mentary Draftsman to draft -. clause munity in order to benefit another, more which would be in the nature .gf a direc- particularly when the section which is to tion, from Parliament to the Commission suffer injury has had for years an uphill to fix the price on the market value of fight against odds that are almost insup- the commodity taken, and which would erahie. The hardships of agricultural at the same time prevent the moving of settlers cannot be known to goldields the courts to compel the Commission to members, but I know from observation show cause why they had fixed a certain what those hardships are. My desire is price, in the endeavour to upset the de- that the Bill shall provide that producers cision at which the Conmission had ar- shall get the market value of their pro- rived. The Parliamentary Draftsman ducts. Last week I attended a hurriedly said the planest, simplest, and best way convened meeting of settlers in my dis- of getting over the difficulty was to add trict to consider this Bill, and the settlers the words "The Commission shall have unanimously expressed an opinion that regard to the market value." the price should not be fixed. Hon. Frank Wilson: Why object to The Premier: If it is necessary in the the South Australian section? interests of the bonsumer as well, the The PREMIER: Because that section price will be fixed, no matter what the makes it possible to appeal against a de- farmert in your district may say. cision of the Commission on the ground The Minister for Works: If it is to be that they did not have regard to the mar- a party matter let us have it a party ket value. matter. Hon. ]PRANK WILSON: I consider Mr. THOMSON: The Government are that the Premier ought to accept the first making this a party Bill. If the proposal suggestion, namely, to take the South 280 280ASSEDMLY.]

Australian section with words added is that the amount be made six per cent. making the decision final so far as tile I move an amendment- price is concerned. Even without those That in line 3 of Subelause 4 the added words I do not think the courts word "five" be struck out and "six' would upset the finding of the Coninis- inserted in lieu. sion as to what was the market value. Ron. J. -MITCHELL: The Government However, to make it doubly sure, we can afford to let the farmer have it at may add the words "The decision of the six per cent., seeing that they pay only Commission shall be final."' four. However, this is an, advance on The PREMIER: I am not a lawyer, five per cent., and it is evident that I shall but I am prepared to cross swords with be voted against if I persist in my pro- the member for Canning (Mr. Robin- posed amendment. son) and to say that he is wrong ini law Amendment lpnt and passed. when he maintains that the words which Air. JAMES GARDINER: Ought we he proposes to add will prevent the not to have a new subelause providing courts being moved. The court, I be- that the hoard shall give to the person lieve, will say that the decision of the from whom they purchase a certificate Commission is to be final, but that such showing the quantity purchased, the price final decision was arrived at on a wrong and the total amount paid? basis. Members opposite are fighting for The Premier: It can be done by regu- something which they must know will lat Lol. either give the right of appeal or else Clause as amended put and passed. be absolutely useless. Clause 14-Terms and conditions of Mr. Robinson:-Suppose the Commis- storage p)ending delivery to the hoard: sion pay no regard to the market value. Mr. JAMES GARDINER: We should The PREMIER: They must do so. make plain whose is the risk by definitely We as a Ministry will not permit any providing that such storage shall be at Commission to exist or to sit if they dis- the risk of the board. obey Acts of Parliament. I move a fur- The Premier: It is our risk all right. ther amendment- Clause put and passed. That the following be added to stand Clauses 15, 16-agreed to. as Subclause 3:-"Tke Commision in Clause 17-Power to search for grain fixing the prices shall have regard to or fodder: the market value of such grain or food- Mr. JAMES GARDINER: Assuming stuff at the place and at the time where that a man who is honest in his assertion and when it was acquired. says, "I have not on my property any Amendment passed. of the materials for which you are search- ing," notwithstanding which they break 12 o'clock midnight. in and search-is it not fair that the board shall pay for any damage done Hon. JAMES MITCHELL: I had in- tinder such circumstances? I want only tended to move a proviso to the effect a reasonable thing. that in the event of payment being de- Hon. Frank Wilson: They would not ferred for more than thirty days after break in unless he refused them entrance. the fixing of the price, the rate of interest The Premier: If lie ref uses permission payable by the board should be eight per to inspect be oug-ht to be held responsible cent, per annum. for the consequences. The premier: We have paid cash up to Clause put and passed. date. Clause 1S-agreed to. Air. JAMES GARDIR: Eight per Clause 19-Taking by or delivery to cent, is extravagant. We say that the the board to discharge obligation to de- probabilities are that the Government will liver to other persons: be charging the farmer six per cent, for 31r. ROBINSON: This is a very diffi- his accommodation, and my suggestion cult clause to understand. I took it from (15 DECEMBER, 1914.]1 281 the Premier's explanation oil the second The very reason given by the Premier for reading that the alan whom the clause the Bill was that he had been told on the should protect is he whose wheat is seized highest authority that some Western Aus- against any contract he has entered into, tralians had sold 1,000 tons of flour or arid that in respect to people in this State wheat to a man in the Eastern States. if there was any difference in price it and if the Bill were not passed the cereal would be adjusted. Where the clause would go out of the country. That man wvill not fulfil its intention is in a case would have a right of action against the where, say, a Melbourne man has made seller here who could not deliver the a contract with a Western Australian wheat. 'My amendment would prevent farmer. Already the Premier and the the Western Australian man from suffer- Attorney General have said that that ing. could not be sued upon in Victoria or, if The Minister for Works: But the State it were, it could not he brought across wvould suffer. here. The leader of the Opposition said Mr. ROBINSON: The State would tine judg-ment of the court in Victoria have the wheat. would automatically become the judgment The of the court here, hut the Premier and Premier: We would not know the Attorney General declared that that whether a moan had entered into a con- could not be. As a matter of fact the tract until he knew this Bill was coming action could be brought there and judg- along. ment recovered, and if this were done, Mr. ROBINSON: This would apply there are two means of bringing the only to genuine contracts. action here, namely, under the Execution The Premier: Who asks for this of Process Act of the Commonwealth, amendment and also tinder a very old Ilw, the Inter- Mr-. ROBINSON: 1 do. colonial Judgments Act of Western Aus- The Premier: On whose behalf 9 tralia. Consequently a Victorian man, who to my would not be bound in the Victorian court Mr. ROBINSON: It appeals commonsense. by this statute, might get a judgment ag.ainst one of our farmers, whereas a The Premier: We are not here to pro- Western Australian could not. I have an tect your comnmonsense. amendment which I think will protect us Mr. ROBINSON: The Premier himself against the Victorian man. I move an recognised this stumhling block and the amendment- lender of the Opposition crossed swords 'That the following be added to the with him in the matter. The Premier said clause:-"The board shall indemnify a Victorian judgment could not be en- the person from whom the grain or forced here, and directed the attention of foodstuff is acquired in respect of con- the Attorney General to it. There can tracts already entered into." be no difference of opinion where there The Premier: Do you think I will ac- is a statute law. I submit the amend- cept that? ment to prevent any loss to Western Aus- Mr. ROBINSON: Yes. tralians. The Premier: I am not so simple as I The PREMIER: I cannot accept the look. amendment. I admit I stand corrected Mr. ROBINSON: The latter part of on the law in respect of an action taken Clause 19 means to a man in Victoria in Victoria against a citizen of Western what the amendment provides for a man Australia, hut the correction does not in Western Australia. make my interpretation of the clause, as The Premier: There is no obligation stated previously, wrong. The clause is between a Melbourne merchant and a very clear except that it contains super- Westen Australian farmer. fluous words. Mr. ROBINSON: The ease covered by Mr. Hudsor . Why not strike out the Clause 19 is purely Western Australian. objectionable %.ords? [ill 282 282LSSEmBLY.]

The Premier:- No exception has been action which is thought to he necessary taken to the South Australian Act, and to protect the general public. If the Gov- I have adopted the identical words, emninent step in and commandeer flour at Mfr. James Gardiner: In South Ann. the price fixed by the hoard or the Com- Iralia they took a large shipment of wheat mission for tihe use of the Government under tliat section. and the people of the State, then, because The PRE'MiER: Ye;, and they have of the dilfercnce in price which might never given any indemnity to the ex- arise there might lie a claim for damages. Iporter. . The individual who has pnrchased 1,000 lon. Fran k Wilson:- You have not seen tons of flour wvould prohably have sold it the result of the action. again to somebody else, and hie will he The PREMILER: If this is good enough respoinsible for delivery. It mnight wean for Mouth Australia where similar obli- that the dilierence might run into thou- gations are entered into, I do not see sands, of pounds, or it 7night he nothing. why we should he expected to provide Apparently it does not matter what it is anything more. The amendment asks uts if it is in the interests of thme State. to indemnifyv onleone who has entered The Minister for Works: Or if we into a contract in iMelbourne. I (10 not have a large amtount; of mioney. think we should go so far. We are pro- lIron. FRANK WILSON: It is not tecting the interests of our community so right to defraud tie individual for the far as lies in our power, and there is no sake of the State. If it is in the interests reason why we should extend the protec- of the State that the flour should be com- tion heyond our borders. mandeered, the owner of the flour should Mr. HUDSON: I will not go so far not have to suiffer owing to the action of as to agree entirely with the amendment, the Government. It is a proper thing to but I think it is worthy of greater con- indemnify in a case like this. If the sideration than has been given to it by farmer has sold all his wheat to an East- the Premier. A man might sell to a buyer ern buyer and the Government then de- at at certain price and the Commission cided that the wheat was to iemnain here then fix another price. The Government and be kept for the benefit of the people then seize the wheat and only give him a as a whole, would it be right that thme certain price, say 6s. He is bound to de- man should suffer and probahly he made liver at that price, whilst the other man bankrupt by the action f is selling at say Ss., in Victoria. The The Minister for Works: They would point arises as to whether that man will quickly mjake up for their suffering if not he ecalLedl upon to pay the difference. they couild get anything out of the State. Are we going to penalise him in that lon. FRANK WILSON: We must connection-,. If the Premier van assure deal fairly by these people, and honestly. mue that the effect of the Bill will be that We will not be dealing honestly -with the man can Avoid this responsibility, we them if we do this. If it is right that we might accept the proposition. I do not shiould take their stuff we should take it understand what the meaning of the lat- at the price fixed under the Act, but ter portion of the clause is. Snrely you :ire not goijng to take that Hon. FRANK WILSON: I contend stuff which has been sold elsewhere and that the measure is to prevent the ex- going to let the individnal suffer. The port of foodstuffs from Western Aus- Government ought to accept the amtend- tralia. The justification for its being niont. brought forward by the Premier was to 21r. JAMES GARDINER: It is not prevent a large quantity of flour being likely that the people are going to ex- sent away to Victoria. Whilst we all port -wheat. I feel inclined to say that ag-ree that power should be given to pre- we are conjuring up things that are un- vent this produce from leaving our likely to occur. shores, we do not want to see anyone in- The PRE'MIER: The first action duly penalised or suiffer loss through the taken by the Government was on account [1-5 DECEMBER, 2914.]18 283 of the fact that it was brought under our Mr. ROBINSON: In introducing this notice by the Commission 'that certain Bill the Premier said that 1,000 tons of commodities were likely to be exported flour was about to be exported from this under contract to Victoria, and by the State, and that unless all other business Farmers' Assistance Board drawing our were stopped and the Address-in-reply attention to the fact that they had some debate dropped and this Bill put through difficulty in procuring the necessary seed straight away Western Australia would wheat. Flour which was proposed to be lose that flour. If that statement is not exported to the tune of 1,000 tons, we correct, I wrill withdraw my amendment. have not prevented from being exported What does the Premier say?7 LIP to date. They evidently have entered The PREMIER: I have already said into contracts in this connection. I saw thast I have sighted contracts which have three representatives of the millers' asso- been entered into for the supply of flour ciation this morning, and they never on the Melbourne market from Western raised the question as to what position Australia, the price being £11 10s. per they wold be in, but they did meet all ton f.o.b. Fremantle. the other millers and voluntarily decided Mr. S. Stubibs: Why not protect those that they would not export any flour. menl The PREAJIER: Because those men Bon. Frank Wilson: They had no con- have not asked for protection. tracts then? Mr. S. Stubbs; A contract is a con- The PREMIER: They had contracts. tract all the world over. I have sighted them. The PREMIER: There are contracts Hon. Frank Wilson: Then their con- and contracts. There are contracts with tracts are safeguarded. such a condition as "Subject to being able The PREMIER- That may be so. I to supply." When entering into those ask the hon. member to give us, concrete contracts, the people wvho contracted to instances where somebody has asked for supply knew that they might not be able p~rotection. to supply. Mr. Robinson: The Premier said that Mr. E. B. Johnston: They protected 1,000 tons of flour had been sold. themselves. The PREMIER: What evidence is The PREMIIERt: That is the point. there that anyone is asking for protec- Those contracts were entered into after tion? we had passed an Act which provides Mr. Robinson: The evidence of the that the permission of the Colonial Sec- Premier of Western Australia. retary must be obtained before a single The PREMIER: There is no evidence bushel can be exported. I presume the of anything of the kind. If these flour contract stated "Subject to being able millers, without any pressure of any to supply." Notwithstanding that, how- kind, volunteered, as they have done, not ever, the millers who saw me to-day to export any flour, there cannot be very said nothing on this point. much in the contention put forward by Mr. ROBINSON : That section does some hon. members or wve should have not prevent exports. It says "Shall not heard about it. Millers, just like other buy up and store with intent to raise people, will refuse to suffer the loss of the price.'' money by reason of this measure, without drawing attention to their position. I The Premier: The boa, member is ask the Committe to consider what has talking about an Act we have passed, been done elsewhere without, so far as not about this Bill. we are aware, any difficulty arising. Mr. ROBINSON: Yes; I am reading There is not likely to be any trouble in from the Act. this connection because, had there been Hon. FRANK WILSON: What was such a probability, attention would have the Premier's interview with the millers been drawn to it by those concerned. about? 2S4 2S4[ASSEMBLY.]

The Premier: The interview was of a i-idled that the board is satisfied that nature that I do not think I should the sale 18 a legitimtate one to other be justified in disclosing. farn.. for the purpose of this Act. Hon. FRANKI WILSON: Why did such sale Shall be allowed to stand." they give that undertaking. In introducing a similar measure in the The PREMIER: I do not know. I did South Australian Parliament, the Min- not ask them for it at all. They simply ister said that he dlid not wish to inter- vame to see me this morning, and said fere 'with sales between farmers. I men- that the millers were willing and anxious tioned that fact in my second reading to carry their share of the burden with speech, and the Premier practically the rest of the people of this State in concurred with my view. Sales between order to conserve the food supplies of farmers would save the Government the State. As soon as they become aware from the necessity of purchasing; and that it is not desirable to export more therefore legitimate sales which serve flour, they are prepared to fall into line. the purposes of this measure should be en. Frank Wilson: That goes to allowed to stand. The object is not to show, then, that this Bill is not required. interfere between one farmer delivering The PREMIER: No. The hon. mem- or selling to another farmer. This would ber will persist in viewing tbe Bill as help the Government in that it would intended merely to prevent the export relieve them of the obligation to pur- of flour. chase. Hon, Frank Wilson: That is the main The PREMIER: I would like the hon. feature of the Bill. member not to press the amendment. I The PREMIER: The main feature am not nervous that the meaning does of the Bill is to enable the Government not conform to the object of the clause, to obtain the necessary supplies and to bitt I will promise that I will see if I distribute them as required. Possibly its can get an amendment drafted to meet main feature may be said to be to enable the hon. members wishes. I know what us to obtain the necessary seed wheat he desires; we do not want to unduly for farmers who are without seed wheat interfere with a sale made between one to put in next year'Is crop. We have not farmer and another. got that seed wheat and we can get it Mr. JAME~S G-ARDINERt: I ask leave under this Bill. to withdraw my amendment. The CHAIRMAN: Having looked Amendment by leave withdrawn. over this amendment, and considered it Hon. H. B. LEFROY: The Premier in conjunction with the Message re- should see that some provision is made ceived from His Excellency the Gover- which will carry out the intention of nor, I find that the amendment would the proposal made by the hon. member represent an impost on the people for a for Irwin. purpose altogether different from what Mr. James G0ardiner: The Premier is stated in the Message. The carrying has just stated that he would do so. of the amendment may involve expen- Hon. H. B. LEFROY: If a man has diture of money, and therefore it is not actually sold his wheat to some other an amendment which can be moved by a farmer, under this clause the Board private member. In fact, this amend- is given distinct power to acquire it muent. would necessitate a further les- even though it may have been disposed sage from His Excellency the Governor. of for seed purposes. It should be made In any case, as the amnendment involves clear that the board cannot do that. an impost on the people of the State, Where a bona fide sale has been made I must disallow it. it should be allowed to stand. I had Mr. JAMES GARDINER:- I move an drafted an amendment the object of amendment- which would have been to provide that That after the trord "board" in line where grain had been sold by any per- 7 the following be iyacfled :-" Pro- son and was in his custody for the time [15 Dnenwsu, 1914.] 2858 being, the board should not acquire it Mr. Hudson: What is the objection if it could be showii that the wheat had to makingp it still clearer? been obtained for seed purposes. The PREMIER: We do not wish to The Attorney General: That is al- add unnecessary words. ready provided for in the measure. Mr. Hudson: Can you tell us why it Hon. H. B. LEFROY: Farmers tans left out? should be relieved of any anxiety in re- The PREA1iER: Because it was tn- gard to this matter. necessary. The Parliamentary draftsman Clause put and passed. took all necessary provisions from the Clauses 20, 21, 22-agreed to. South Australian Act. Clause 23-.Snmmary proceedings for Mir. Hudson: Did he say this was un- offenees: necessary Mr. ROBINSON: I more an amend- The PRE-MIER: He said he had given ment- us all that was necessary. That at the end of Subdlause 2 the lEon. .1zrank Wilson:- You really wish following words be added :-"JAnd to provide an appeal?9 shall be subject to appeal as provided its the said Adts.' The PREMIER: Yes. This will make it perfectly clear that Hon. Frank Wilson: Then -why not there shall be an appeal. The clause as say so? it stands will leave room for the arg- Aimendment put arid a division taken ment that there was no appeal; I am not with the followving result:- saying that that is the meaning, but so Ayes 10 long as I anm here I want to see that Noes 29 Bills express what they intend. Half the living of lawyers is obtained by reason Majority against .. 19 of the stupid words which are placed in measures by people who do not under- stand them. I o'clock a.m. Mr. Counolly Mr. Robinson Mr. Hudson Mr. Thomson Mr. Let roy The CHAIRMIAN: The hon. member MrI. F. Wilson Mr. M1ale Mr. S. Stubbs must not reflect on the actions of this Mr. Mitell, (Teller I Parliament. Mr. Nairn Mir. ROBINSON: It was the work of previous Parliaments. However, my ob- NOES. ject is merely to make it clear that an Mr. Angwin Mr. Muilany appeal is provided for. If the Committee Mr. Boiton Mr. Munsle Mr. Carpenter Mr. O'Ioghlen do not accept the amendment, so much Mr. Collier Mr. A. N. Pless, the better for the lawyers. Mr. Cuniningham Mr. Scaddan .The PREMIER: The Bill w~as drafted Mr. Foley Mr. B. J. Stubbs by a duly qualified legal practitioner. Mr. Xas. Gardinor Mr. Taylor Mr. J. P. Gardiner Ir. Tbomnas Mir. Robinson: No, he merely used Mr. Oriffiths Mr. Underwood scissors and paste, and in doing so ex- Mr. Harrison Mr. Walker Mr. Wan ebrough cised a clause. Mr. Hiekmott Mr. Green Mr. wiiimott The PREMIER: He had the South Mr. Johnson. Mr. A. A. Wilson Australian Act as a guide. The subelause Mr. Johnston Mr. Heltmann proposed by the hon. member is taken Mr. McDowall (relier). from that Act, and I am assured there is Amendment thus negatived. no need for iL. The clause prescribes that Clause put and passed. the proceedings shall be regulated by the Justices Act 1902, which provides for Clause' 24-agreed to. appeals. Clause 25-Duration of Act: 2%[-ASSF9ftBLY.1

Rob. J. MITCHELL: Imovb an the Bill. To-morrow I propose to mnove amendment- the suspension of the Stahding Ordets Phal "thirty-first Sap of December" to enable the Bill to be passed through be struckc out, and '"hirtieih day of its report stage and third reading. September" inserted inl flee. Quesiton put and passed. Hay cutting will commence at the end of hpeneror early in October, and it QUESTION-FINTANCIAL STATE9- slhui'dhe possibki for holders. hext sea- KE1NT. §ob t6 deal ith their produce as they Ron. FRAK WILSON: I would please. If the latcr date ig retained, like to ask the Premier if he can inform hErdshlp inky result. As we apptoaeh the House when he will deliver his Bud- the next harvest, people may require ad- get Speech. Will he deliver vances bn their crops, and such it pro- it on Thurs- day, or, if not, when ? vision as this would prevent them from The PREMIER:- I amn afraid I will being obtained. It might be advisable to not be able to deliver it on Thursday, make the date even earlier than the 30th and if we have to sit such long hours September. over measures like the Grain and Air. JAMES GARDIN ER: I support Food- stuff Bill, it will not be ready for some the amendment. We should keep the two time. I will do my best iii harvests distinct. The South Australian connection with it, but I cannot work day and night. Act stipulates the 30th September for lion. Frank Wilson: We are doing the same reason. that. The PREMIER: I have no objection The PREMIER: The compact on to the amendment, but the measure can Thursday was to get this Bill through at be put out of operation at any time by one sitting. merely dissolving the board. Further, we Hon. Frank Wilson: Well you have shall meet before the 30th September and got it through. Cannot you say when it will then be possible to deal with the you will bring your Budget down9 Will measure as desired. we &et it before Easter? Amendment put and passed; the clause The PREMIIER: I had hoped as amended agreed to. to bring it down on Thursday. Title-agreed to. Hon. Frank Wilson: Will we get it Hill reported with amendments. before the Christmas holidays? The PREMIER: Ye;, before -we ad- Report Stage. journ for the holidays. The PREMIER: I move- That the consideration of the Corn- )Louse adjourned at .1.17 a.m. (Wed- mittee's report be made an Order of nes day). the Day for the neni sitting of the Htiuse. Hon. Frank Wilson: Why did You keep us here? The PRUMUIER: The Standing Orders have not been. snspehdled for this sitting. Ron. Frank Wilson: This measure can be passed through now. The PREMIER: No, the Standing Orders were suspended only for Thurs- day last. I did propose to move the sus- pension to-day, but on reflection I con- sidered it would be undesirable because in view of the amendments tabled it might have been necessary to recommit