July 8, 1985 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 18027 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES-Monday, July 8, 1985 The House met at 12 o'clock noon s. Con. Res. 46. Concurrent resolution to munication from the Speaker: Mr. SKELTON. Mr. Speaker, the hi­ WASHINGTON, DC, pro tempore signed the following en­ rolled bills on Saturday, June 29, 1985: jacking drama of TWA flight 847 is June 27, 1985. now over. Those 16 tragic days focused I hereby designate the Honorable THoMAs H.R. 1699. An act to extend title I and the Nation's attention on that distant S. FoLEY to act as Speaker pro tempore on part B of the Energy Policy and Conserva­ airport in war-ravaged Lebanon. Monday, July 8, 1985. tion Act, and for other purposes; THOMAS P. O'NEILL, Jr., H.R. 2800. An act to provide authorization Upon release of the hostages, our Speaker of the House of Representatives. of appropriations for activities under the Nation experienced a collective relief Land Remote-Sensing Commercialization reminiscent of the one we experienced Act of 1984; after the previous incident in Iran. PRAYER S. 822. An act to extend time for conduct­ Those of us who had watched the The Chaplain, Rev. James David ing the referendum with respect to the na­ drama unfold on television were glad tional marketing quota for wheat for the to return once again to our ordinary Ford, D.D., offered the following marketing year beginning June 1, 1986; and prayer: routines. However, for the family of S. 883. An act to reauthorize the Export one American serviceman, Navy diver Gracious God, giver of life and the Administration Act of 1979, and for other purposes. Robert Stethem, the outcome was one hope of all who trust Your Word, we of grief and bitterness. A beloved son pray for Your blessing upon our and brother was singled out to die by Nation and all the people. When we COMMUNICATION FROM THE the terrorists who commandeered the miss the mark and cause injury grant CLERK OF THE HOUSE us pardon, and when we choose the plane. In our collective relief at the right and good causing justice to reign, The SPEAKER pro tempore laid good fortune of the many, we should give us encouragement. Grant to all before the House the following com­ not forget the tragic fate that befell those who have been given the power munication from the Clerk of the Robert Stethem. to govern the grace and wisdom to House of Representatives: We should now resolve ourselves to serve, that peace and mercy will WASHINGTON, DC, combat terrorism in a serious way. abound in the land and good will mark July 8, 1985. The vocal pronouncements against ter­ our every day. Amen. Hon. THoMAs P. O'NEILL, Jr., rorism must now give way to quiet The Speaker, House of Representatives, action. The worst sin now would be to Washington, DC. do nothing. Increased intelligence ef­ THE JOURNAL DEAR MR. SPEAKER: Pursuant to the per­ forts, greater measures to protect air­ mission granted in Clause 5, Rule III of the The SPEAKER pro tempore. The ports, and the reestablishment of the Rules of the U.S. House of Representatives, Sky Marshal Program are just some of Chair has examined the Journal of I have the honor to transmit a sealed enve­ the last day's proceedings and an­ lope received from the White House at 11:05 the actions that we can take. One nounces to the House his approval a.m. on Wednesday, July 3, 1985 and said to other measure is to offer a $500,000 thereof. contain a message from the President reward for the capture of the two wherein he transmits the eighteenth annual homicidal terrorists. Reward funds Pursuant to clause 1, rule I, the report under the Automotive Products have already been approved by Con­ Journal stands approved. Trade Act of 1965 nications, construction of facilities, and re­ STATES Mr. LAGOMARSINO. Mr. Speaker, search and program management, and for The SPEAKER pro tempore laid on July 1 a fire broke out in the Los other purposes. before the House the following mes­ Padres National Forest near Ojai, CA, The message also announced that sage from the President of the United and quickly spread in all directions. It the Senate had passed a concurrent States; which was read, and together is still burning today and has con­ resolution of the following title, in . with the accompanying papers, with­ sumed over 80,000 acres. The loss to which the concurrence of the House is out objection, referred to the Commit­ date is estimated at almost $4 million; requested: tee on Ways and Means. however, no one has lost their life.

D This symbol represents the time of day during the House proceedings, e.g., D 1407 is 2:07 p.m. e This "bullet" symbol identifies statements or insertions which are not spoken by the Member on the floor. 18028 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE July 8, 1985 Damages undoubtedly would have stand the big furor to a cap on the cost of called for a special order to take place been much higher if not for the out­ living increases • • • all subsidies benefit­ after the close of official business to­ standing work and courage of fire­ ting just any special interest that is not a benefit to the country • • • must be elimi­ morrow, Tuesday, July 9, 1985. The fighters from the U.S. Forest Service, nated. seven U.S. hostages who remain in California State, county, and city fire­ Lebanon will be the subject of discus­ men from the local area, and firefight­ sion. I believe that it is incumbent on ers from throughout the Nation who D 1210 us as Representatives to assure the have flown in to assist. H.R. 1555: BAD NEWS FOR families of those individuals still held I was on the scene last week and DEMOCRACY IN EL SALVADOR captive that their Government has not spoke with many of the firefighters, as forgotten their loved ones. Moreover, I well as people living in the vicinity. ever group or groups are holding the thank the firemen for saving their Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, hostages. That message must be that homes. H.R. 1555, the International Security our whole Government and our whole The threat was particularly acute in and Development Cooperation Act of citizenry stand unified in our resolve Ojai, in Meiners' Oaks, and to the city 1985, should be defeated because it to have the hostages returned safely of Carpinteria. plays into the hands of El Salvador's and quickly. The Fourth of July parade in Ojai Communist guerrillas, who are now was canceled. The banners were re­ trying to overthrow the duly elected I urge Members to participate in this placed by ones reading, "We love fire­ Duarte Government with terrorist tac­ special order. It will mean a great deal fighters." tics. to the families of those still held hos­ I agree. The many firefighters, pro­ Let's look at what the bill contains, tage. fessionals and volunteers, prevented place it in the context of the guerril­ The American hostages are: what is still a very serious problem las' most recent statements, and see if Terry Anderson, Associated Press from becoming a tragedy. it is likely to facilitate either security bureau chief, Beirut. or development in Central America. David Jacobsen, Administrator of The bill cuts the President's security American University Hospital, Beirut. REMOVAL OF NAME OF MEMBER assistance requests for Latin America AS COSPONSOR OF HOUSE William Buckley, political officer, by $250 million. For El Salvador alone, U.S. Embassy, Beirut. JOINT RESOLUTION 76 the total assistance request is cut by Mr. COOPER. Mr. Speaker, I ask $55 million-12.6 percent-leaving us Rev. Benjamin Weir, Presbyterian unanimous consent that the name of at a level $15 million below the 1985 minister, Beirut. the gentleman from [Mr. continuing resolution. In short, we are Thomas Sutherland, dean, Agricul­ PuRSELL] be removed as a cosponsor of going backward. tural Department, American Universi­ my joint resolution, House Joint Reso­ Our timing could not be worse. As ty in Beirut. lution 76. reported in the Sunday Washington Peter Kilburn, librarian, American The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is Post, the top guerrilla commanders University of Beirut. there objection to the request of the held a press conference last Friday Rev. Martin Lawrence Jenco, head gentleman from Tennessee? and vowed to continue their attacks on of Catholic Relief Services in Lebanon. There was no objection. U.S. military personnel stationed in El Jeremy Levin of CNN News escaped Salvador. That means more machine in February 1985. THE 92 GROUP BUDGET-A gunning of noncombatants at outdoor COMPROMISE cafes. But beyond that, they as much as TAX REFORM MERVYN DYMALLY of California. It is Western Financial Corp. and Great Mr. ALEXANDER. Mr. Speaker, the cosponsored by several other members Western Savings & Loan Association, President obviously got his cue cards of the California delegation, as well as a position he held for 15 years. It was shuffled last Saturday during his by two senior members of the Post President Kennedy back in 1963 who weekly address to the Nation when he Office and Civil Service Committee, appointed Leslie Shaw the first black said that the bipartisan House budget Representatives BILL CLAY and postmaster of any major city in the resolution would weaken our national MICKEY LELAND. United States, and in this capacity, defense. The President apparently H.R. 2558 would recognize and me­ Mr. Shaw provided leadership for the does not understand that it is not the morialize the career and achievements operations of the third largest post House budget resolution, but 5 years of Leslie Nelson Shaw, Sr. In addition office in the country with a comple­ of Republican "borrow-and-spend" to his achievements as a civic and busi­ ment of 15,000 employees and 92 sta­ policies that pose the greatest threat ness leader, Mr. Shaw was the first tions and branches. His retirement in to our national security. black postmaster of a large American 1969 saw the major expansion of Under Mr. Reagan's leadership the city, having been appointed Postmas­ postal operations in Los Angeles to national debt has doubled in just 5 ter of Los Angeles in 1963 by President extent that the U.S. Postal Service has years and by the time he leaves office Kennedy and serving in a distin­ planned for the needed construction it will have tripled. guished manner in that position until of a new general mail facility which And, Mr. Speaker, annual interest on 1969. will include a vehicle maintenance fa­ Mr. Reagan's debt today is exceeded Mr. Shaw who passed away earlier cility, and a warehouse all of which only by the cost of defense and the this year, made numerous contribu­ will span 75 acres in south-central Los cost of Social Security. tions to the city of Los Angeles, the Angeles. Mr. Speaker, I do not see how future State of California, and the Nation. Mr. Shaw's contributions to the Los generations will be able to afford a Naming the new Los Angeles postal fa­ Angeles community went far beyond strong defense if Mr. Reagan's cility in his honor would be a fitting his career. He was active in numerous "borrow-and-spend" policies are not tribute to this tireless public servant civic and charitable organizations in curtailed. and citizen. such diverse areas as education, health It was former President Eisenhower H.R. 2558 was ordered reported by and equal opportunity and youth serv­ who said that the strength of our the Committee on Post Office and ices. Mr. Shaw demonstrated great ca­ Nation is not only measured in guns Civil Service on June 26, by voice vote. pacity to give of himself personally and tanks, but the strength of our I urge its passage.e and we in the greater community are moral and our economic fiber as well. The bill was ordered to be engrossed the better for his dedicated service. As and read a third time, was read the the U.S. Postal Service prepares to LESLIE NELSON SHAW, SR., GEN­ third time, and passed, and a motion face the evergrowing communications ERAL MAIL FACILITY OF THE to reconsider was laid on the table. needs in the Los Angeles area, I be­ U.S. POSTAL SERVICE lieve that dedication of the new Los Angeles postal facility in Mr. Shaw's Mr. McCLOSKEY. Mr. Speaker, I LESLIE NELSON SHAW, SR., memory will allow us to give proper ask unanimous consent that the Com­ GENERAL MAIL FACILITY recognition to his valuable contribu­ mittee on Post Office and Civil Service An agency may not carry out any per­ there objection to the request of the marks and include extraneous matter sonnel action described in subsection (b) gentleman from Indiana? on the bills just passed. unless, at least 120 days before the effective There was no objection. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is date of the personnel action proposed, such The Clerk read the bill, as follows: there objection to the request of the agency submits a written report to Congress providing the information described in sub­ H.R. 2672 gentleman from Indiana? There was no objection. section . Be it enacted by the Senate and House of "(b) This section applies with respect to Representatives of the United States of any removal, reduction in grade , involuntary reassignment, or fur­ SECTION 1. REDESIGNATION OF BUILDING. SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE lough of any employee assigned to a field (a) REDESIGNATION.-The New York Inter­ office of an agency if that personnel action national and Bulk Mail Center in Jersey The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursu­ is incident to a decision- City, New Jersey, shall hereafter be known ant to the provisions of clause 5 of "( 1 > to change the types or the number of and designated as the "New Jersey Interna­ rule I, the Chair announces that he functions to be performed by such field tional and Bulk Mail Center". Any reference will postpone further proceedings office, or the manner in which such func­ to such building in any law, map, regulation, today on the motion to suspend the tions are to be performed; or document, record, or other paper of the rules on which a recorded vote or the "(2) to terminate the performance of any United States shall be considered to be a yeas and nays are ordered, or on which function, in whole or in part, by such field reference to the New Jersey International office. and Bulk Mail Center. the vote is objected to under clause 4 "(c) Any report submitted under this sec­ (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.-This section shall of rule XV. tion with respect to a reorganization de­ take effect 6 months after the date of the Such rollcall vote, if postponed, will scribed in paragraph <1> or <2> of subsection enactment of this Act. be taken on Tuesday, July 9, 1985. (b) shall- SEC. 2. DEDICATION OF MICHAEL McDERMOTT "<1> identify the field office involved and PLACE. the nature of, and the reasons for, the pro­ (a) ERECTION OF SIGN.-The United States FIELD OFFICE CLOSING posed reorganization; Postal Service shall erect a suitable sign JUSTIFICATION ACT "(2) compare the number of employees bearing the inscription "Michael McDer­ Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker, I who are assigned to such office before, and mott Place", anywhere on its property adja­ move to suspend the rules and pass the number of employees who would be as­ cent to the street and parking area located signed to such office immediately after, the immediately to the east of the New York the bill by including a summary of cate such portion of such street in memory in the case of any agency proposing to any personnel actions proposed to be taken of former postal employee Michael McDer­ carry out removals, reductions in incident to the reorganization and the mott. grade or pay, or other adverse person­ number of employees who would be affected (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.-This section shall nel actions incident to closing, or by each type of personnel action proposed; take effect on the date of the enactment of "(4) compare the functions performed by this Act. changing the functions of, any of its field offices. such office before, and the functions which e Mr. McCLOSKEY. Mr. Speaker, would be performed by such office after, the H.R. 2672 is the culmination of several The Clerk read as follows: proposed reorganization; years of work by its sponsor, the dis­ H.R. 2401 "(5) assess the relative capability of such tinguished gentleman from New Be it enacted by the Senate and House of office to perform its assigned functions Jersey [Mr. GuARINI] and by senior Representatives of the United States of before and after the proposed reorganiza­ members of the Post Office and Civil America in Congress assembled, tion, particularly with respect to any func­ Service Committee-most notably the SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. tions which involve providing services to the This Act may be cited as the "Field Office public; Honorable BILL CLAY. This legislation Closing Justification Act". "(6) estimate the economic impact and the has passed the House in one form or SEC. 2. AMENDMENTS. other consequences of the reorganization another in both the 97th and 98th (a) REPORTING REQUIREMENTS.-Chapter with respect to the community within which Congress. The version we consider 35 of title 5, United States Code, is amended such office is located; and today is the result of a compromise by adding at the end thereof the following: "(7) include a statement of the costs, ben­ among all interested parties, including "SUBCHAPTER VII-RETENTION OF efits, 'and other effects anticipated as a the U.S. Postal Service. H.R. 2672 EMPLOYEES PENDING AGENCY result of the reorganization. would redesignate the bulk and for­ REPORT ON PROPOSED REORGANI­ "(d) A report submitted to Congress under ZATIONS this section shall be transmitted to both eign mail center located in Jersey City, Houses on the same day and to each House NJ, as the "New Jersey International "§ 3598. Definitions while it is in session.". and Bulk Mail Center" and would pay "For the purpose of this subchapter- (b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.-The anlay­ tribute to the memory of the late Mi­ "(!) •agency' means an Executive agency, sis for chapter 35 of title 5, United States chael McDermott by designating a but does not include the General Account­ Code, is amended by adding at the end roadway leading to the center as "Mi­ ing Office or the Department of Defense; thereof the following: chael McDermott Way." Mr. McDer­ "<2> 'field office', as used with respect to an agency, means any office or other unit of "SUBCHAPTER VII-RETENTION OF mott was a postal employee who was such agency which is located within the EMPLOYEES PENDING AGENCY killed while working at the center sev­ United States and which is not a part of the REPORT ON PROPOSED REORGANI­ eral years ago in a tragic accident. principal office of such agency; ZATIONS H.R. 2672 was ordered reported by "(3) 'employee' means an individual em­ "3598. Definitions. the Committee on Post Office and ployed in or under an agency, but does not "3598a. Reporting requirement.". 18032 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE July 8, 1985 The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursu­ Government. It does not preclude the any existing reporting or notice re­ ant to the rule, a second is not re­ administration from streamlining the quirement applicable to the Veterans' quired on this motion. Government. It does not prevent Administration or any other agency of The gentlewoman from Colorado office closings or consolidations. This Government. [Mrs. ScHROEDER] will be recognized bill simply requires each agency to Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of for 20 minutes and the gentleman advise Congress of its reorganization my time. from New York [Mr. HoRTON] will be plans and to provide us with the justi­ Mr. HORTON. Mr. Speaker, I yield recognized for 20 minutes. fication and impact of such plans. It is myself 5 minutes. The Chair recognizes the gentle­ a congressional notification bill, pure Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of woman from Colorado [Mrs. ScHRoE­ and simple. H.R. 2401, the Field Office Closing DER]. Specifically, H.R. 2401 requires exec­ Justification Act of 1985. H.R. 2401 re­ Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker, I utive agencies to provide Congress quires any agency, except the General yield myself such time as I may con­ with 120 days, notice prior to making Accounting Office and the Depart­ sume. any significant changes in their field ment of Defense, report to the House Mr. Speaker, the bill before us, H.R. office structure that will adversely and Senate 120 days in advance of any 2401, was reported by the Committee affect Federal employees. personnel actions incident to a change on Post Office and Civil Service on On June 4, 1985, the subcommittee or termination of any function per­ Wednesday, June 26, by voice vote. held a hearing on this bill. Nineteen formed by a Federal field office. The Last year, the owners of the Colts congressional representatives either bill specifies the particular informa­ football team surreptitiously spirited presented testimony or submitted it tion to be included in the report. the team out of Baltimore in the for the record. Most Members were Persistent rumors have circulated in middle of the night. Baltimore fans dismayed at their inability to track several areas of the country that the were aghast, not just at losing their down rumors on major field closings Federal offices in a town, city, or State team, but also at the low, sneaky, and function transfers in their dis­ will be shut down. Many of the plans childish way that the owners did it. tricts. The common theme was that, to close Federal field office are based This year, the administration seems with congressional involvement sty­ on OMB's management 1986 report to be using the same technique to mied, the interests of citizens and em­ which accompanied the fiscal year close hundreds of field offices of Fed­ ployees are ignored. 1986 budget. OMB is trying the man­ eral agencies throughout the country. Office of Management and Budget agement side of its function to its Rather than standing up and justify­ [0MB1 Director David Stockman said budget responsibilities. The aim is ing their plans, the administration he was unable to appear at the sub­ threefold: increase productivity by seems intent on closing shop in the committee hearing, but he did respond contracting out services under Circu­ middle of the night and thereby de­ to the request of the committee for his lar A-76, improve Governmentwide in­ priving communities of important Fed­ views. In a letter dated June 14, 1985, formation technology and communica­ eral services. Mr. Stockman states that his office is tions systems, and to improve delivery That's why I introduced H.R. 2401, "strongly opposed to the enactment of by changing the Federal field struc­ the Field Office Closing Justification H.R. 2401." Although he touches on ture. OMB left it up to each agency to Act. Currently, the bill has 84 cospon­ the substantial difficulty of complying determine how it will achieve its man­ sors. Many Members are frustrated with the reporting requirement, the agement savings. Each agency submit­ over the administration's refusal to Director's real objection appears to be ted a management improvement plan provide any information about their that it "intrudes upon the President's in April, 1985. The improvements are ambitious plans to close hundreds of responsibility for executive branch to take place over the next several regional and field offices. management.'' In February of this year, the admin­ Mr. Stockman explains that "at any years. istration issued a booklet entitled given time, there are hundreds of H.R. 2401 provides only for notice of "Management of the United States changes occurring in these offices that planned changes in the Federal field Government, Fiscal Year 1986,'' an­ could trigger the reporting require­ structure. I am concerned, however, nouncing for massive closings of re­ ments of the bill." When questioned that Congress will use appropriations gional and field offices but providing by my staff, OMB admitted that no riders or restrictive language in au­ no details. Earlier that month, the analysis of any kind has been done to thorization bills to prevent agencies Subcommittee on Civil Service sent determine how many reports would be from exercising their management letters to all Federal agencies with required under the bill or the cost of prerogative over Federal field struc­ field structures asking for information these reports. On the other hand, ture. We must be very careful after on their plans for reorganization. OMB conceded that, whenever there the enactment of this legislation to see Little information was provided, and are field offices changes, agencies al­ that the proper balance between man­ what was provided was often confus­ ready compile information required by agement control over the efficiency of ing or contradictory to OMB state­ this bill. Federal Government operations and ments. In the meantime, rumors run Mr. Stockman also said that we in the delivery of services to taxpayers is wild, agency morale sags, productivity Congress are "ill-equipped" to handle maintained. It is not the intent of the sinks and congressional offices strug­ the information if we were to receive sponsors of H.R. 2401 nor the intent of gle to get some answers. it. I disagree. I think Members of Con­ the House Post Office and Civil Serv­ Agency field offices are the touch­ gress are quite capable of handling in­ ice Committee that Congress use this stones of our Federal Government formation about office closings in legislation to stop agencies from reor­ system. They are our link with the their own districts. And I think it is ganizing. public. Polls indicate that Americans important that we do so. Thank you. feel good about those Government I urge passage of this legislation. 0 1230 services with which they have direct The chairman of the Veterans' Af­ contact, be it tax assistance, Social Se­ fairs Committee has contacted me con­ I would like to engage the gentle­ curity information, or soil conserva­ cerning the effect of H.R. 2401 on sec­ woman from Colorado, the sponsor of tion advice. Their hostility to Govern­ tion 210(b) of title 38, requiring the this bill and chairman of the subcom­ ment comes from the billions and bil­ Administrator of the Veterans' Admin­ mittee, in a colloquy, if she will answer lions of dollars of spending which they istration to report, in advance, on ad­ these questions. do not see. ministrative reorganizations. I see no The gentlewoman from Nebraska H.R. 2401 does not address the advis­ conflict between the two provisions: [Mrs. SMITH] has asked that we ability of retaining a field structure of H.R. 2401 does not change or repeal engage in the following colloquy: July 8, 1985 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 18033 Does this bill, affecting closing and It clearly is a much more orderly Mr. HORTON. As one of the spon­ consolidating of Federal field offices way. We are not asking that they file a sors of this bill, I want to underscore also cover facilities of the National catalog or something the size of the that it is my intent, and I do not think Weather Service. phone book. We are saying the bill intends to in any way intrude Mrs. SCHROEDER. If the gentle­ that "If you are going to move, you upon the ability of the administration man will yield? give 120 days' notice." That allows ev­ to reorganize or put into effect oper­ Mr. HORTON. I will be happy to eryone to look at the facts and the de­ ational efficiencies by reorganization. yield. tails but it does not say you have to In other words, all this does is re­ Mrs. SCHROEDER. The bill clearly file 120 pounds of paper or pages of quire notice, and it certainly does not covers facilities at the National paper or anything like that. affect one iota the ability of the Fed­ Weather Service. Mr. HORTON. I would assume just eral Government to reorganize to Mr. HORTON. As I understand it, a simple statement that, within 120 make itself more effective. the only ones not covered are the Gen­ days, prior to 120 days, notice that Mrs. SCHROEDER. The gentleman eral Accounting Office and the De­ they intend to close a field office is absolutely correct. partment of Defense. would be sufficient notification, would Mr. HORTON. Mr. Speaker, I yield Mrs. SCHROEDER. The gentleman it not? myself 1 additional minute. is absolutely correct. Mrs. SCHROEDER. Well, if the gen­ tleman will yield again, certainly. Mr. Speaker, I feel this is an impor­ Mr. HORTON. Does the bill provide tant piece of legislation, to protect the for appeal and judicial review of Mr. HORTON. I will be glad to yield. Mrs. SCHROEDER. What we are rights particularly of the Federal em­ whether the executive agencies have ployees involved in any proposed followed the procedures and require­ trying to do is bring order out of chaos. change of a Federal field office, and I ments of this statute? urge its adoption. Mrs. SCHROEDER. If the gentle­ Mr. HORTON. Mr. Speaker, I yield man will yield again. myself 2 additional minutes. Mr. Speaker, I yield back the bal­ Mr. HORTON. I will be glad to yield. I yield to the gentlewoman from Col­ ance of my time. Mrs. SCHROEDER. The bill clearly orado. Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker, I says that an agency cannot carry out a Mrs. SCHROEDER. What we are yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from personnel action, unless you gave 120 talking about is bringing order out of Arkansas [Mr. ALEXANDER]. days' notice in advance. So an employ­ chaos and to make sure that we have Mr. ALEXANDER. I thank the gen­ ee subject to personnel action, in other justification and adequate notice so tlewoman from Colorado for yielding, words, one who would be moved or the community and individuals in­ and appreciate very much the oppor­ fired because they were closing, could volved can look at it and see if there tunity to address this issue today, and appeal the action based on the failure truly is the cost savings, so forth and to rise in support of this bill. to give notice. so on. The bill sets out simple and ex­ Mr. Speaker, this is an important Mr. HORTON. What penalties does plicit reporting requirements. We are bill, and one that does service not only the bill provide for an agency's failure just asking for the notice of 120 days, to those citizens receiving Social Secu­ to carry out the procedures and re­ which I think you would find in the rity benefits, but to the Federal em­ quirements of this statute? private sector was considered reasona­ ployees who administer this program. Mrs. SCHROEDER. The penalties ble, proper, and that is certainly what Recently, I was talking to my friend for an agency's failure to comply with they do. Lou Harris, who measures public opin­ the reporting requirements; that is the Mr. HORTON. I understand also ion, and he advised that there is no 120 days, is that an employee could there is some concern that this may job in America which is appreciated appeal and be reinstated. Frankly we intrude upon the President's ability less than that of the Federal employ­ expect all agencies to comply in good and responsibility for executive ee. faith. branch management, by delaying re­ Federal employees as a group are So it does give us some leverage. alignment or reorganization of Federal not appreciated very much by the Mr. HORTON. Aside from that, I field offices that are needed to im­ American people. Therefore, the jobs would like to also point out that there prove the Government's operational that they perform are easy prey for a efficiency. President or a Cabinet member who is some objection, as I understand, by Would the gentlewoman comment the administration, concerned that wants an excuse for reducing the defi­ on that, please? cit or cutting down on Government ex­ this might create some extremely de­ Mrs. SCHROEDER. Absolutely not. tailed and onerous reporting require­ penses in order to close Federal of­ First of all, we run fiscal year to fiscal fices. Generally people support that ments on Federal agencies, contradict­ year, and a fiscal year is not 120 days. ing recent efforts by the Congress and I assume that there is planning that idea: Close all the offices; cut down on the administration to eliminate unnec­ goes on in the future for each of these the cost of Government, and so forth essary paperwork and reduce the moves. So all it does is say, let every­ and so on. number of reports to the Congress. one in on the planning. Of course, this is a disservice to the As the gentlewoman knows, I was What has really happened is, people beneficiaries of these programs and it the author of the legislation and assume, for example, that Members of is a disservice to millions of people re­ chairman of the Paperwork Reduction Congress know about these things; ceiving Social Security benefits who Commission, and then also of the Pa­ and as I have pointed out, when we are dependent upon that program for perwork Reduction Act of 1980, and I wrote all the agencies, they did not their income. am very much concerned about any know about the plan; the regions did There are Government services that additional paperwork. not know about the plans: OMB did are absolutely essential to the func­ Does the gentlewoman feel that this not know about the plans; you know tioning of this country. Orderly access would create any onerous or detailed the plans have to be made in advance of Social Security offices and Federal reporting requirements which would rather than just overnight. offices that administer other programs contradict our efforts to cut back on We are talking about only a third of is vital. Certainly the orderly closing unnecessary paperwork? the fiscal year for notice, that certain­ of those offices, if they are to be Mrs. SCHROEDER. I thank the ly is within their budget and planning closed, is a part of that functioning. gentleman for yielding further, and I time frame. I think it is impossible to I rise in support of this bill today; I want to say absolutely not. It is hard say that that will do anything to cut compliment the gentlewoman from for me to keep a straight face when I down on their efficiency. I think it is Colorado, I compliment the committee hear these kind of things thrown up at going to encourage them to be more for its foresight. I am proud to be a co­ us. efficient and have their act together. sponsor of this important legislation. 18034 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE July 8, 1985 Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker, I H.R. 2401 simply states that Federal I'm sure, that is, I hope, that many yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from agencies share their plans for move­ of these rumors are untrue. I have California [Mr. DYMALLY]. ment of regional and field offices with been assured, time and time again, Mr. DYMALLY. Mr. Speaker, I rise the Congress so any adverse impact on that the regional center structure to speak in strong support for H.R. our constitutents can be studied and would remain in its present form, by 2401, the Field Office Closing Justifi­ hopefully eliminated. officials such as David Stockman of cation Act, which our distinguished The information must identify the the Office of Management and Budget chairwoman, Mrs. SCHROEDER has SO office, functions, and employees af­ who said, "the issue of across-the­ ably sponsored and on which the Sub­ fected and detail the justification, board, governmentwide removal of the committee on Civil Service has held costs and impact of the planned reor­ Federal presence has not been raised." hearings. Approval of this bill is clear­ ganization. An analysis of the conse­ Martha Hesse, of the Department of ly needed and justified. When our sub­ quences of the changes on the immedi­ Energy, reassured me that "there are committee held hearings recently in ate community must also be included. no specific proposals to change the re­ Denver, for example, concerning the The need for this measure has been gional structure." The General Serv­ proposed removal of the Federal Exec­ clearly demonstrated in my own dis­ ices Admininstrator, Mr. Ray Kline utive Training School from Denver to trict. In just the past 4 months, I have stated, "No such plans-downgrading Grand Junction, CO, the former Di­ been asked by hundreds of constitu­ offices-were recommended by our rector of the Office of Personnel Man­ ents about possible closings of many panel." William Ruckelshaus, of the agement, Mr. Devine, could not pro­ Federal agencies in Kansas City. Environmental Protection Agency as­ vide credible data on cost savings ac­ Unfortunately, my response to these sured me that their office "had made cruing to OPM nor any justifiable rea­ constituents has been a stark "I don't no recommendations to influence the sons for removing this facility away know." regional structure." from the regional center in Denver to It is deeply frustrating when a con­ stituent calls out for help with his em­ And yet, talk of closing the RIF's Grand Junction. continues. The taxpaying citizens of This bill would provide for reasona­ ployer and as a part of that employer, I have no way to help, nor even any this Nation will be well served if Fed­ ble notice and information to Mem­ eral employees can concentrate on bers of Congress when Federal agen­ official knowledge of his or her prob­ lems. their task of serving our people and cies plan to reorganize and remove or not spend those energies tracking curtail field office functions; these Early this year, as President Reagan once again began his efforts to com­ down rumors, or worse, looking for planned closures should be fully justi­ more secure employment. fied and information concerning these plete what he calls the "streamlining" office changes should be conveyed not of Federal agencies, the rumor mill While I understand the need for ad­ only to the employees affected, but to started working overtime. ministrative flexibility, and above all the public at large who depend on Since that time, my staff and I have want to see Government services pro­ services provided by these offices. been inundated with rumors of RIF's, vided in the most effective manner closings, downgradings, and a variety possible, it is our responsibility as leg­ In view of the overwhelming work­ of other administration attempts to islators to ensure that we are made load and delivery of programs through dismantle the current service struc­ aware of administration policy to the States and local governments, it is ture of our Federal Government. close, downgrade, or otherwise change critical to maintain onsite personnel Two recent examples come readily to the programs Congress authorizes. and supportive services directly to all mind. We were informed by the USDA Without such knowledge we cannot ef­ our constituents. Whether we are deal­ that the Federal Grain Inspection fectively provide our citizens the serv­ ing with major Federal Block Grant Center would leave the Midwest, ices their tax dollars pay for. Programs to all our States and juris­ where more grain is grown than any H.R. 2401 will provide the knowledge dictions or with the thousands of other single region in the world, and Social Security offices and contact sta­ we need to best assist both our con­ move its offices to Washington, DC. stituents and the Nation at large. Sup­ tions which provide direct vital serv­ And only 2 months ago hundreds of ices to American citizens, it is essential port for this measure will ensure that families at the Department of Labor we in Congress can continue to be re­ to maintain these field offices on a offices in Kansas City were told to continued basis. This bill will assure sponsive to the needs of our constitu­ pack their bags to either be uprooted ents. continuity of information to all Mem­ or unemployed. bers of Congress as well as to the gen­ Mr. HORTON. Mr. Speaker, I have Fortunately, due to congressional no further requests for time. eral public when field office changes intervention both cases have been re­ are planned, and I trust that you will solved in a substantially satisfactory Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker, I join me in supporting H.R. 2401. manner, but if H.R. 2401 had been law, want to thank the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. WHEAT] who has been so 0 1240 my constituents would not have been subjected to the fear, frustration and helpful in bringing this legislation to Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker, I concern about their jobs and the po­ the floor. I really appreciate all of his yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from tential loss of Federal services. effort. Mississippi [Mr. WHEAT]. Unfortunately, there are still rumors Mr. Speaker, I yield such time as he Mr. WHEAT. Mr. Speaker, I am in Kansas City, and I would like to may consume to the gentleman from pleased to join my colleagues today in share some of them with you. [Mr. GoNZALEZ], who was very this important debate. First I would The Department of Education will active in bringing this to the floor and like to commend the gentlewoman shut its doors, moving its entire sphere who was supposed to be a cosponsor from Colorado on her leadership in ex­ of operations back to Washington. but somehow his name got left off. So pediting this important measure. The The Social Security Administration I thank the gentleman from Texas for Field Office Closing Justification Act will replace its regional and field of­ being here, and I thank him for his is not finished reducing Federal field offices would ing Government further and further when a law is passed, nor is it accomplished save money-when you factor in the away from people. I contend that if when an agency in Washington is assigned relocation, severance, and transporta­ you require an elderly or disabled to administer new legislation. These are tion costs. person to travel several miles to get only preliminary steps; in the end the real Leaving those concerns aside for a services that were once available in work is done by the men (sic) who imple· moment, though, I am particularly dis­ their neighborhood, you are doing ment the law in the field. The performance turbed about the inconvenience and that person a disservice. of the men in the field is directly linked to the administrative structures and processes inequity that would result from H.R. 2401 takes a very responsible within which they work. It is here that the moving regional offices of HHS, HUD, approach to responding to field office Government's effectiveness too often in un­ the Labor Department, SBA and reorganization plans. Let me first em­ dermined .... Each agency, for example, others from Seattle to San Francisco, phasize that the bill does not prevent has its own set of regional offices and re· for example. Large portions of our needed reorganizations, nor would it gional boundaries; if a director of one oper­ population would no longer have the create any unnecessary delays in im­ ation is to meet his counterpart in another ability to meet face to face with au­ plementing such plans. branch of the Government, he must often thoritative representatives of the Fed­ make an airplane trip to see him. . . . Co­ Instead, H.R. 2401 would simply re­ ordination cannot flourish under conditions eral Government, or they would be quire that certain basic information be like that . . . . That is why I said in the forced to travel at great expense to provided to Congress prior to making campaign last fall (1968) that "the need is Washington, DC, for assistance they any substantive changes in the field not to dismantle Government but to mod­ previously received close to home. office structure of Government agen­ ernize it." Obviously this is a decision that cies. Specifically, this act requires ex­ With these statements, President Congress must review. Until now, ecutive agencies to provide Congress Nixon announced his plan for creating David Stockman and others in the ad­ with at least 120 days notice prior to the standard Federal regions, repre­ ministration have viewed this as making any significant changes in senting a decentralization of the Fed­ simply a budgetary decision. But it is their field office structure that would eral Government's authority, an im­ more than that. It has a profound adversely affect Federal employees. provement of services, and a more ra­ social implications and raises further The measure covers the field offices of tional structure for the field offices of questions of the inequitable distribu­ all executive agencies except the De­ major Federal departments such as tion of taxpayer-paid Government fense Department and the General Ac­ Labor, Health, Education and Welfare services to various areas of the Nation. counting Office. , Housing and Urban Devel- I am not prepared to tell my constitu- 18038 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE July 8, 1985 ents who have a problem with the of $66,000 annually. What was not pro­ This reorganization plan would in­ SBA, for example, that they must vided was any assessment of the clude an analysis of the impact of the travel to San Francisco at their ex­ impact the closure would have on the reorganization on the employees of pense to find a solution. And when one quality of services provided to the the agency, the community it serves, of the local universities in my district nearly 12,000 individuals whose cases and the functions the office performs. needs help in completing Federal De­ are handled from this office. As the representative of a largely partment of Education forms, I would Like many of my colleagues, I be­ rural district in Maine, I recognize the regret the day that I have to advise lieve cost savings are an important importance of Federal agencies' field them to fly 800 miles for the same as­ consideration in any field reorganiza­ offices to the people and communities sistance they used to get by driving 20 tion or closure decision. But, I do not they serve. Whether for the senior cit­ minutes. believe cost savings should be the only izen needing help understanding the So at the very least, the Members of consideration in such a decision. Cer­ complex regulations guiding the ad­ the House of Representatives should tainly no one disputes the desirability ministration of Social Security bene­ be informed about major reductions in or potential feasibility of providing fits, or the farmer requiring assistance personnel and services in field offices. high quality public services in a more from the Department of Agriculture Members should be allowed to engage efficient and possibly less costly Soil Conservation Service, or the first­ in discussions with these agencies to manner. But merely asserting the pos­ time homebuyer gaining access to a determine the nature and scope of the sibility of greater efficiency is not a mortgage insured by the Department actions; and, should be allowed to rep­ sufficient basis for making long-term of Housing and Urban Development, a resent the views of their constituents projections about the size, dispersion field office acts as an essential bridge who would be affected by such reorga­ and staffing of agency field offices. between a distant and complex bu­ nizations. I am confident that many of What is necessary are the kinds of reaucracy and the people the bureauc­ the proposed reorganization plans analyses that this bill would require of racy is intended to serve. which are now rumored to be in exist­ an agency, particularly when an While the Federal Government must ence would not pass the test of scruti­ agency, like Social Security, touches so be free to operate its offices in the ny in the Congress. My opinion is that many people and has such a profound most effective and efficient manner many of these plans would not be effect on their lives. possible, Members of Congress and the shown to be cost effective, and most I have also had similar closing deci­ people they represent are entitled to would cause severe reductions in nec­ sions announced for the Department be informed of planned changes. essary services-in addition to signifi­ of Housing and Urban Development's Utmost care must be given to ensure cant hardship for Federal employees field office in Nashville. When I ex­ that services are not jeopardized. in regional offices. Even if that were plored the announcement I discovered While the reporting requirements of not shown to be the case, the Congress that the Department had not complet­ the bill are thorough, they constitute should have the opportunity to review ed a full assessment of the effect of its no more than the sorts of issues an and comment upon the proposals. decision. Yet, rumors of the pending agency should responsibly examine So I strongly support H.R. 2401, and closure of the office continue. If there before moving ahead with the closing am pleased to be an original cosponsor is a rationale for closing this major or consolidation of field offices.e of this legislation. It is critical for field office, it has not been provided The SPEAKER pro tempore. The clarifying Congress' right and its need nor has any national or regional plan question is on the motion offered by to know about significant changes in been described for this decision or the the gentlewoman from Colorado [Mrs. field office structure.e many other closure decisions being ScHROEDER] that the House suspend • Mr. BONER of Tennessee. Mr. considered by the Department. The the rules and pass the bill, H.R. 2401. Speaker, I am proud to join my House Field Office Closing Justification Act, colleagues in supporting the Field however, will require the departments The question was taken; and

51- 059 0 -86- 25 (Pt. 13l 18042 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE July 8, 1985 bility. Let me quote, I think, her most here on the floor today and said as a be defeated in a political-military con­ damning statement about Western in­ major step toward defeating terrorism, text. tellectuals. and they then described actions inside Third, modern terrorism is waging It is in seeking remedies that the propen­ the United States. I was fascinated be­ war against civilization and can be de­ sity of intellectuals to play tricks with reali­ cause it is clear to anybody who has a feated only by accepting the reality of ty is revealed. As uncertain about the reasonable view, I think, of the world that war. nature of limits of terrorism as they are that most of the terrorism on this Let me make this point very clear, about its significance, in short, about both planet is not caused by Americans, is the diagnosis and the prognosis, they are because it is at the heart of my mes­ naturally uncertain about the proper not inside the United States, and is sage. remedy against terrorism. not a function of American behavior. Warfare occurs at four levels in their Since they have not the slightest inten­ In fact, I think in order to defeat hierarchy. The bottom level is tactical, tion of taking real responsibility for evil, terrorism, we must start by defining it. what happens every day. The level they find it comfortable to devote them­ Terrorism is not guerrilla warfare or a above that is an operation or project, selves to observation and denunciation of variation of freedom fighters. Few how do you put together your tactics the possible excesses of any repression. This things have made me more angry than to achieve something. The level above is a shrewd position, because in the end for these sort of people, all repression is exces­ a recent effort in a debate I was in on that is a strategy, what are you trying sive. television by an apologist for the ter­ to accomplish with your operations or rorists who began by describing the projects, and the top level is a vision, She goes on to say, and I quote: Afghan freedom fighters as terrorists. where are you trying to go with your All countermeasures must be accompanied Afghan freedom fighters tried to kill by a concerted intellectual attack bearing activities. on the totality of the issues likely to supply Russian invaders. They are primarily It is very clear that the higher up the terrorists with a semblance of legitima­ active against Russian military or the you are in that hierarchy the better cy and rationality. But this concerted effort pro-Russian Afghans who are now in off you are. If you have two sides com­ should be conducted not with the terrorists, the Russian puppet army. peting and they are both equally good but with the general public. To believe as To describe Afghan freedom fighters tactically, the side which is operation­ the French Government wrongly did for in the same sentence as a terrorist is a ally superior will win. If you have two some time, that the delay in the develop­ deliberate effort to distort the argu­ sides which are competing and the side ment of Corsica could be the subject of ne­ gotiation not with the Corsicans elected by ment and to smear the freedom fight­ which is operationally superior is stra­ universal suffrage, but with the clandestine ers who are anti-Soviet, while at the tegically inferior, it will lose. At the ul­ representatives of the separatist-terrorist same time protecting the pro-Soviet timate level, vision defeats strategy. movement proved itself to be counterpro­ terrorists. For example, in the American Revo­ ductive. Terrorism is the deliberate killing of lutionary War, George Washington Democracy is weakened when it is not re­ civilians in order to terrify. Terrorism had a superior vision and a superior spected, and when men who refuse to asserts the right of a minority to use strategy, but the British had a better submit to the electorate, or when they do submit receive a pitiful handful of votes are force randomly to kill people because army. In the long run, the British dealt with as interlecutors. When, as in Cor­ of the superior claim terrorists have army's better operations and tactics sica, electoral democracy is imperfect, it on history and morality. Terrorism is lost to the Americans' better vision should be improved rather than pushed tied to totalitarianism in that each and strategy. aside for the benefit of what is, in essence, seeks to use force to change human Interestingly, in Harry Summers' anti-democratic. behavior. classic work, "On Strategy: The Viet­ 0 1300 There is a very real parallel between nam War In Context," Summers Leninism, the use of force by the state makes the point that it was the Ameri­ What is she saying? She is saying, to force you to change your behavior, cans who had the operationally and and I close in terms of quoting Krie­ and terrorism, the use of force by indi­ tactically superior army, but it was the gel: viduals or small groups to make you North Vietnamese who were better off It is terrorism as a criminal act and not as at the vision and strategy level. He the expression of an opinion, which is the change your behavior. On the one object of social repression. hand, totalitarianism is the systematic begins his book with a conversation in terrorism of the individual by the Hanoi, April 15, 1975, in which Sum­ Kriegel's point is this: The Western state apparatus; on the other hand, mers said: intelligentsia has found a very sophis­ terrorism is the use of force by the few You know, you never defeated us on the ticated and subtle way of avoiding re­ to impose their will on the many. battlefield. sponsibility for dealing with danger. In fact, the Western intelligentsia, be­ It is vital that politicians, diplomats, The North Vietnamese colonel pon­ cause it is leftwing, apologizes for and and the news media to be precise and dered this remark a moment. explains away much of modern terror­ clear about the specific nature of ter­ "That may be so," he replied, "but it ism. This was stated succinctly by two rorism. Terrorism is in many ways par­ is also irrelevant." Americans, Peter Collier and David allel to the Soviet KGB. It is the delib­ Summers was in North Vietnam at Horowitz, in the Washington Post and erate act by some to inflict pain on that point as part of a delegation and reprinted recently in Reader's Digest others in order to have their way. Ter­ it was that comment, the North Viet­ in an article entitled "Reflections rorism is a political action by a deter­ namese who said, "That may be so, From Yesterday's Radicals." They mined minority seeking to psychologi­ but it is also irrelevant," which sent cally brutalize the majority by phys­ Summers back to studying Clausewitz said: ically brutalizing the innocent. We have said goodbye to all that, to the and looking at the issue of strategy. romance with corrupt Third Worldism, to Terrorism in its modern form goes What he concluded was that if one the casual indulgence of Soviet totalitarian­ back to Russians secret societies in the side has a superior strategy for fight­ ism, to the hypocritical anti-Americanism, late 19th century. Terrorism can be ing the war, the other side will lose which is the New Left's bequest to main­ defeated. It has been suppressed in the even if it wins all the battles. stream politics. past and can be again in the future. To Let me apply this to the issue of de­ It is fascinating in terms of what defeat terrorism, we must recognize feating terrorism. Terrorism on a they talk about in their description of three realities: global basis, as George Will has put it, what they saw as the old leftwing radi­ First, modern terrorism is largely is war against the Americans. But it is calism of the 1960's. They describe it international and can be defeated only more than that. It is war against the "as an era of bloodthirsty fantasies." on an international level. democracies. It is fascinating to note I was reminded of Collier's and Second, modern terrorism is largely that terrorists almost never attack to­ Horowitz' article when someone got up a political-military activity and must talitarian states. There is very little July 8, 1985 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 18043 anti-Soviet terrorism, but there is a to their specific action, they retain the books there is a consistent pattern of great deal of anti-American, anti-Brit­ initiative; we are on the defensive, we how the leftwing "ostriches" in Amer­ ish, anti-Italian, anti-French, anti­ are in a reactive position, and further­ ica in the 1970's crippled the intelli­ German, anti-Israeli, and now anti­ more they have time to study us. gence agencies, with the fact that Salvadoran terrorism. The reason is, The world is big and complicated. when Iran disintegrated and began to first of all, the terrorists hate democ­ The American Secretary of State or move into a fanatic phase, we simply racies. Terrorism is, by definition, the American President is not going to did not have the human intelligence based on the right of individual fanat­ pay attention full-time to terrorists in capability left to know what was going ics or small groups of fanatics to El Salvador and terrorists in Lebanon. on. In fact, we had to ask one man to decide what they will do. These fanat­ So if they take a step in June and we come out of retirement to help reinfil­ ics, by definition, are contemptuous of react in July, we forget what they are trate to understand what was happen­ the concept of democracy. They are doing because we are busy with 25 ing in Iran. contemptuous of the concept that the other problems. They have 6 months Again and again international ex­ majority should have something to to study us, and then next year their perts from across the planet in the say, and they regard our activities, our next terrorist action is more sophisti­ conference at Jerusalem decried the efforts, as laughable. It is in their in­ cated. Look, for example, at how so­ cutting up of the American Central In­ terest to destroy America. phisticated this action was, with a telligence Agency by leftwing "os­ The one thing which holds together plane seized in Athens, carried to Al­ triches." It is eerie in 1985 to go back the Irish Republican Army, the vari­ giers, flown to Beirut, carried to Al­ and study the 1979 conference on the ous terrorist factions in Lebanon, the giers again, moving back and forth, things that were done to weaken the terrorists in El Salvador, the terrorists staying busy, with all sorts of interme­ American intelligence agencies. who work in the Palestine Liberation diaries, and with the American press and news media being manipulated The first step of the Reagan admin­ Organization, is a common under­ istration should be to come to Con­ standing that while they may disagree and the television networks being ma­ nipulated. It was a very sophisticated gress to ask for a dramatically on the future they want, they agree strengthened intelligence capability, on their enemy. Their enemy is the terrorist operation. We are now dealing with people who and, second, to go to our allies to pro­ West, their enemy is the United pose the establishment of internation­ States, their enemy is the concept of are well trained, trained in South Yemen, trained in Libya, trained in al efforts to systematically coordinate democratic society. an offensive against terrorism. We have to recognize that they are Cuba, trained in the Soviet Union, linked together, that they are not just trained in little universities of terror­ The second step should be to recog­ tactical events such as the seizing of ism or colleges of terrorism. In order nize that terrorism is by definition an airplane or operations such as the for us to respond effectively, we have international. If all we were worried 2-week horror is the hostage crisis in to establish a vision of how we are about were local ethnic groups that Lebanon. There is a bigger, broader going to act. We have to recognize cer­ had a grievance or local ideological strategy, which is to deliberately use tain basic principles which are going "nuts" that had a grievance, we would force to terrify Western democracies, to drive our actions, and we have to not be very worried. Those can be han­ to prompt their governments into one recognize that our actions have to dled by the normal police powers of of two habits: either impotence or the occur on several levels. They have to any average state. But when, for ex­ destruction of repression. occur with intelligence agencies, with ample, shipments of up to 5 tons of This happened, for example, in Uru­ diplomacy, with the military, with the ammunition and weapons are sent guay a number of years ago. Uruguay news media, with counteracting our from one country to another to help was the best democracy in South own leftwing thoughts, and with edu­ terrorists, when we discover that the America, the cleanest government, the cating the American people, and only Soviet Union has terrorist training freest society, the most open news by having all these layers of action are camps in the Crimea that have 60 media, and urban guerrillas called the we going to be in a position to win. trainees at a time, when we learn that Tupemoros began a deliberate, vicious The first step has to be to describe in Libya there are five divisions of campaign of urban terrorism and de­ our vision of the world we want to live equipment sitting there to be shipped cided that they could destroy the de­ in. I think that should be fairly clear. around the Third World for terrorists mocracy and in 3 years cause such de­ We do not want to get revenge against to use, when we study the way in struction that in order to survive as a one terrorist group for one terrorist which terrorists network and help country, the military were given over­ action. We do not just want to slow each other, when we look at the rela­ whelming power, the police were given down terrorism in one region. It is tionship between Syrian terrorists and overwhelming power, and what had vital if the West is going to survive the Soviet Union, we have to recognize been the best democracy in South that we invent a positive system of ac­ that international terrorism is big America, in effect, gave up its demo­ tivity which allows us to dominate and business and that international terror­ cratic rights to suppress the terrorists. suppress terrorism before it hurts the ists are systematically allied to defeat So the terrorist strategy is either to innocent. In the long run we are going the West and to cripple democracy scare us into being impotent, do noth­ to have to build a sophisticated and destroy the United States as an in­ ing, or to force us into overreaction enough intelligence and police capabil­ fluence in the world. and repression. In either case, the ter­ ity that we are able to know what the In that setting I think we have to rorists win. terrorists are going to try, stop them distinguish between two kinds of before they do it, and that we are states: first, states which actively D 1310 going to be able to know where they direct terrorism-and that would in­ If we react only tactically, that is, got their support from and how to clude Libya, Iran, and apparently on each time the terrorists do something, defeat that support. occasion Syria-and, second, states we do something, I think we are in the Let me suggest that this leads us which actively support terrorism. long run doomed to fail. Furthermore, first to the intelligence agencies. And These states would almost certainly if our only reaction to their tactical again I might suggest that it is fasci­ include Syria and would probably in­ aggravation-they steal an airplane, nating if you read the Conference on clude the Soviet Union and would also they seize hostages, and we then International Terrorism from the Jon­ include South Yemen, where much of launch an operation, one raid, one ac­ athan Institute, or if you read Charlie the training is carried on. I want to tivity, cutting off the Beirut airport­ Beckwith's study, "Delta Force," on draw that distinction because we need is doing one thing, I think we still fail, his efforts to create the counterterror­ to adopt very different reactions to because if all we are doing is reacting ist unit in the U.S. military. In both the two sets of states. So on the one 18044 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE July 8, 1985 hand we have states that are directly The gentleman talks about geo­ Mr. GINGRICH. Well, if I may re­ leading terrorism, and on the other graphic areas. I think he is absolutely spond to my good friend and say, first hand we have states which are sup­ correct, and that is why we have to un­ of all, I agree there is something bi­ porting terrorism. derstand that terrorism knows no zarre about leftwing ostriches who Third, I think we have to recognize boundaries, it knows no international may well have participated in the as­ geographic areas which do not exist law. That is why the United Nations sault on the Central Intelligence anymore as states. To talk about Leba­ has to be involved, and I would think Agency in the late seventies, who now non as though it were a country is to we would work through the United tum around and discover in amaze­ deceive ourselves. It goes back to Nations and expel those nations that ment that the very intelligence agen­ George Orwell's point about the im­ do not live according to the dictates of cies that they helped cripple are in portance of language. Lebanon does the United Nations. fact now very, very necessary. not exist as a country. Lebanon is a ge­ I am fascinated again in the confer­ ographic area which has 17 different D 1320 ence in Jerusalem on terrorism. Lord ethnic and religious factions fighting For example, when our hostages Chalfont, who is a very distinguished for control. When we pretend Lebanon were taken into Lebanon, I do not British and journalist, and who is a exists as a country, we set up expecta­ think the United States or the Presi­ member of the Labor Government, not tions which guarantee that we are dent of the United States should have a conservative, made the comment: going to be frustrated and have a diffi­ had the responsibility of getting the "Even the CIA, damaged and demoral­ cult time dealing with Lebanon. In­ hostages out or bringing them back ized as it has been by an orchestrated stead, what we ought to say is "Look, home. I think that should have been and systematic attempt to destroy it in if you have no government, we are not within the prerogative of the United recent years." going to pretend you do. If you are in­ Nations, precisely because it is the Now, this is in 1979. Every American capable of policing yourself and sup­ world court of world opinion. should think about this term, "dam­ pressing terrorism, we are not going to So I would think the United Nations aged and demoralized as it has been by pretend you are." The rules of sover­ should have some obligation in this an orchestrated and systematic at­ eignty which apply to countries that area. tempt to destroy it in recent years." are organized do not apply to areas The gentleman talked before about Part of the leftwing ostrich assault that are essentially battlegrounds for where we are going to assess blame in on the intelligence agencies was pre­ piracy. our intelligence agencies. cisely to cripple the human intelli­ So the first rule in the international Well, I remember distinctly when gence and covert operations capabili­ agencies ought to be that we have one the 39 hostages-the 40, pardon me­ ties which we now find against terror­ set of actions aimed at countries that when the plane was hijacked, a ism are invaluable. are directing terrorism, one set of ac­ Member of the other body, a very lib­ Let me say to my friend from Wis­ tions directed at countries that are eral Member, was on national TV and consin that there are three parallel supporting terrorism, and one set of he condemned the CIA for not having actions for areas that really are not diplomatic offensives that are neces­ the information that we needed at this sary. Yes, we should go to the United countries at the present time but are time. only geographic terms for battle­ Nations. In fact, this administration grounds between terrorist factions. Also, during the Carter administra­ should have demanded a Security In that setting we have to look then tion, Stansfield Turner, head of the Council meeting. We should insist on to diplomacy in the State Department. CIA, said that we do not need on-the­ an aggressive effort to get the United Let me suggest that in order to combat ground information, that because of Nations to condemn terrorism, but we terrorism, we are going to have to our satellites, et cetera, they will act should also recognize that the forces adopt new rules based on new lan­ as a substitute and we do not have to that hate the West have a large guage with a new recognition of reali­ put people's lives in jeopardy and in enough block in the United Nations ty. The first of the new rules is that in danger by sending them into a country that they will cripple the United Na­ order to be effective against terrorism, that is not friendly to us. tions. we are going to need to establish anal­ So I think by emasculating the FBI, I think largely for the education of liance against terrorism. We cannot which we did just a week and a half the Western public and the Western expect the United Nations to be effec­ before the hijacking took place and news media we should always be on tive because by definition the United the CIA and then turning around and the offensive diplomatically at the Nations as a global institution includes pointing fingers at the intelligence United Nations. You and I should rec­ terrorist organizations. Libya, for ex­ agencies as though they were responsi­ ognize in advance that offensive is ample, is a member of the United Na­ ble I think is totally illogical. going to fail; that in fact the United tions. Yet Libya clearly and openly I do not think that we can exonerate Nations has a large enough block of says that it is committed to terrorism, people who vote one way in one direc­ proterrorists, prototalitarian, pro­ it is committed to war against the tion and then tum around and point Soviet, anti-American, antidemocratic, West, and it feels perfectly reasonable fingers because the CIA or the FBI did and anti-Western forces, that the in attacking the Americans. not have the capabilities to give ade­ United Nations is helpless to provide a Mr. ROTH. Mr. Speaker, will the quate information and proper infor­ real arena for the development of a gentleman yield? mation to the President of the United global strategy to defeat terrorism. Mr. GINGRICH. I am glad to yield States. I think we cannot lose our his­ Second, I would like to suggest that to the gentleman from Wisconsin. torical perspective. the United States should move active­ Mr. ROTH. Mr. Speaker, I thank the I apologize to the gentleman for ly to develop an alliance against ter­ gentleman for yielding. asking him to yield some time, but I rorism. We should seek those from our I appreciate very much the gentle­ would have to say that we have to look NATO allies in Europe, from Canada, man's well-thought-out statement. at the importance of the United Na­ from Japan, from any country which However, on his views of the United tions, especially when it comes to the is willing to pledge itself to actively Nations, I would think that the United issue of terrorism, and that we cannot being involved in an effort to defeat Nations would be preeminently the point fingers at the FBI and the CIA, terrorism at a vision and strategic place where we would want to go and when we in this Congress are responsi­ level. stamp out terrorism. After all, if the ble for emasculating those intelli­ In addition, we should undertake an United Nations is not going to stamp gence-gathering agencies. association to prevent terrorism, out terrorism, what can we depend on I thank the gentleman for yielding which is passive. I want to distinguish the United Nations for? tome. the two. There are many countries July 8, 1985 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 18045 around the world which would be will­ we have Members from our own body going to protect American hostages in ing to say up front that they will, for who are going down there and sanc­ Beirut. We are going to come after example, allow the United States to tioning what some of these rebels are you." apply to seize a terrorist who is hiding doing, or helping, giving them some Second, States which support terror­ in their country, that they will ensure credibility. ism have to be at risk at least economi­ that that terrorist is sent to the So if Members of this body are going cally and diplomatically. We should se­ United States. to do it, how are we ever going to get riously consider cutting off all aid of There are many countries that will to the steps that the gentleman wants any kind, including indirect aid say legally they will not accept terror­ to take? through the United Nations, to any ism, holding hostages at an airport. I am not denying that the gentle­ country which refuses to extradite ter­ Those countries should be asked to man's steps are not appropriate. I rorists. passively help defeat terrorism and think they are. I am just trying to ana­ Third, those countries that want to they should belong to an association. lyze how we are going to get from here be able to stand to one side, they do The alliance against terrorism to there. not support terrorism and at the same should be an activist force, should say Mr. GINGRICH. Well, I would say time they do not direct terrorism, have very aggressively-and I will get to to my friend that the greatest of all to understand that they are closed out some of those activities in just a burdens in a free society is to win the of the loop, and frankly, our allies, the moment-that we are going to stamp war of public opinion. The most im­ French are one of the worst offenders. out terrorism. We are going to take portant message I would have for the The French have a number of Italian those steps which are necessary to Reagan administration is that until terrorists who they are unwilling to make life very risky indeed for the ter­ they have thought through the war extradite tc Italy and they are unwill­ rorists, and that includes active retal­ against terrorism, until they are pre­ ing at the present time to imprison. iation and, indeed, preemptive strikes. pared to engage the ostriches in our That is a terrible precedent. There is a big difference in the risk body who systematically run around that is involved and in the strength of here and I think try to deny the reali­ Mr. ROTH. Mr. Speaker, will the the country. A country which is poor ty of a dangerous world, until they are gentleman yield? and weak and may well be frightened prepared to win the struggle for the Mr. GINGRICH. I am glad to yield of terrorism itself might join the asso­ minds of the American people, they to the gentleman. ciation against terrorism and say that are not prepared for the struggle Mr. ROTH. Mr. Speaker, if the gen­ they will do passive things to stop ter­ against terrorism. tleman will yield for just 30 seconds, I rorists, whereas a country that is con­ Once the American people come to see what the gentleman is saying. I fident of its strength-West Germany, the conclusion that something has to think the gentleman is right on target. Great Britain, and Italy-might want be done, we can do it. The point that the gentleman made to join an alliance against terrorism I was frankly heartened in an unusu­ about the leftwing propaganda war, dedicated to very active steps to drive al way. I went back and studied the which is the all important war, the terrorism out of existence. war against the Barbary pirates at the war for people's minds, I think is cor­ I would suggest that we should then time we were a brand new country. rect; but I think, my good friend from state explicitly, "If you don't belong to Thomas Jefferson, as Ambassador to Georgia may agree or not agree, I the association and you are not pas­ France, began dealing with the Barba­ think the reason is that many times, sively against terrorism and you don't ry pirates in 1785. Many Americans, the left wins by default. For example, belong to the alliance and you are not many Members of the Congress when when the CIA was attacked for not actively against terrorism, you are we became a country in 1789, said, having information that they were then not part of what we would regard "Oh, let's appease them. There are supposed to have as far as Lebanon as the sanctuary of Western values." ways to appease them." was concerned and the Shiites and the We should say very clearly that if a In fact, it will hearten all of us, we like, the media hauled out Stansfield terrorist is on your territory and you actually passed a bill to build four Turner. Now, he is one of the people are not willing to allow us to file to ex­ ships for the Navy, with the provision who helped emasculate the CIA, and tradite them and you are not willing that if the Algiers pirates would nego­ yet when the media went to the CIA, to seize them, that we then reserve the tiate, we would not finish the ships. I there was no comment. There was right to protect ourselves by going mean, those are shades of the debate never a comment from the CIA. after that terrorist. we have nowadays. It is exactly the This is a fundamental shift, I think, same pattern. 0 1330 in the American approach to interna­ There is always an ostrich faction tional law since World War II. We that says, "You know, if only you are Do you not think that we should have to recognize that international nice enough to the terrorists, they have some sort of maybe an institu­ law, which provides Libya with a sanc­ won't terrorize you." tional readjustment where we do have tuary while putting Americans at risk, Ultimately, it took from 1785 to political offices for the CIA, FBI, so is a foolish approach to international 1802, ultimately we educated our­ when charges are made against them law. An international law that pre­ selves. We came to believe that we had that they will and can respond if we tends that Lebanon is a real country, to take serious steps, and we took seri­ are in a court of public opinion? when it is a battlefield, is a foolish ap­ ous steps. Mr. GINGRICH. I think you have proach to international law. Now, I am suggesting that the State made a suggestion which has a lot of Mr. ROTH. Mr. Speaker, will the Department steps are very fundamen­ merit. gentleman yield? tal. We have to establish new rules for The point I would like to make is Mr. GINGRICH. I am pleased to international law as it relates to ter­ that the intelligence agencies, whether yield. rorism. We have to establish a new al­ it is the Federal Bureau of Investiga­ Mr. ROTH. Mr. Speaker, if the gen­ liance against terrorism. We have to tion or the Central Intelligence tleman will yield for just a brief com­ establish a new association for the pre­ Agency, back before the leftwing os­ ment, and that is this. In theory that vention of terrorism. triches took control of the Democratic sounds great, but how does this work We then have to impose very, very Party and politicized American foreign in practice? severe sanctions at three levels. First, policy, there was a bipartisan spirit For example, we have in El Salvador states direct terrorism, in my judg­ which led to a tradition that said we now rebels who no longer have the ment, have to become battlefields. We are not going to say anything, that the support of the people. We know that. have to say to Libya, "If you are going intelligence agencies and the law en­ The rebels themselves admit that; but to direct terrorists, we are not just forcement agencies are above politics. 18046 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE July 8, 1985 Now, in the modern era, that has ism, and I think that rather than planet. Then we may or may not get frankly not been true. Ever since the simply deal with the persons at the you. rise of George McGovern and the tactical end of the battlefield, that one Let me suggest this is incredibly emergence of the leftwing ostrich as or two terrorists out there with a gre­ stupid, that only a society that is will­ an ideological force in America, we nade or rifle, if it began to be obvious ing to go to the ultimate extreme have seen a greater and greater will­ to Libya and Cuba that there were allows its enemies to publicly say they ingness to attack the intelligence great costs involved in supporting and are your enemies, to publicly say they agencies and attack them both ways, directing terrorism, you would see a want to destroy you, to publicly re­ as the gentleman points out. First you dramatic fall-off. cruit people who want to kill you, to gut them because they are too strong, There are a number of military ac­ train those people, arm them, organize and then you attack them because tions that are possible, but let me sug­ them and then only after they try to they are too weak. There is a certain gest one as an example of how far we kill you to react. amount of historical shortsightedness are going to have to think this thing One of the steps we would suggest and I guess it is part of why I wanted through. We know and monitor terror­ just as an example for us to think to do this outline today, to say, look, ist training camps around the world. about is that at some point in the near you have got to look at the long run. We know there are at least two terror­ future if we are going to be serious There is something, as the gentleman ist training camps, for example, in about winning the war against terror­ says, bizarre about calling on Stans­ Libya. ism, an international force, preferably field Turner, who is the man who Our current position is look, if you out of the Alliance Against Terrorism, gutted human intelligence in the Cen­ think you want to be a terrorist, and or some such organization, should tral Intelligence Agency, to talk about you go to your local terrorist recruit­ occupy two or three terrorist training the Central Intelligence Agency. It is a ing office, which is very often the Pal­ camps, because the minute we do that, little like going to your local bartender estine Liberation Organization local the minute Libya, or Cuba, or the to discuss the problems of alcoholism. terrorist public affairs office, and they South Yemen begin to realize that if The fact is these people were the are all over the planet, many of the you have a terrorist training camp in problem. It is the ostriches who crip­ western democracies have PLO offices your territory you are potentially pled the Agency which we now have to which are, in effect, recruiting going to be exposed to great danger, rebuild. grounds for terrorists. You drop in and you are going to see a dramatic change But I would carry it a stage further. you say, gosh, I would like to become a I think the intelligence agencies ought in their willingness to openly train ter­ terrorist. You would not use quite that rorists. The minute that having terror­ to have every Thursday morning a language, but you would say you ists in your territory becomes grounds briefing on Capitol Hill for every would like to become an activist, and Member of Congress, of everything for reprisal, for example, if we know they then send you off to a training that Libya has a number of organized which is not classified which has been camp. You go literally, the Libyans, terrorist groups occupying hotels in gathered around the planet, on the according to one report, literally rent Libya right now, we can legally, legiti­ Soviet war against the West, on the their camp out for so much money. terrorism so that every Thursday mately, through the State Depart­ You bring your gang, you show up and ment ask for their extradition. If they morning the executive branch would they give you 30 days of training, plus brief every Member of Congress who refuse to extradite, we have every food, and they also provide ammuni­ legal right to impose an air and sea wanted to come about everything we tion and weapons, and you get to take have learned in the preceding week blockade on Libya until they give up the weapons when you leave as a grad­ the terrorists. That begins to make it about terrorism everywhere on the uation present. It is a fairly expensive planet and about the Soviet war expensive. training program, but then all you do Now we should not do this random­ against the West. And I think frankly is kidnap a major businessman, hijack the same day, maybe at noon or 1 ly. We should think through, and re­ an airline, rob a couple of banks and member again the clause, the injunc­ o'clock they should brief all of the you raise the money. news media so that we begin to build a tion that I began with, that we should historic memory, a historic under­ If you think that is an exaggeration, think through every step of making standing of what is going on. note, for example, that the Commu­ Libya an example of how we in the But for this to happen, frankly, the nist dictator in Nicaragua, Ortega, was West have decided we are not going to State Department is going to have to in jail in the 1970's for being a bank tolerate a war against democracy. We understand that we have got to tell robber. He was a terrorist, or as part should take every step necessary to the truth to the American people. We of his training as a good Communist, either eliminate Qadhafi's regime or have to tell the American people the he was learning how to rob banks to fi­ make them behave respectably. truth about Soviet involvement in sub­ nance the revolution. But for you to pretend that Qadhafi, sidizing and supporting terrorism. We In that setting, what is the Western while he supports terrorists, while his have to tell the American people the position? Do we stop you by closing up agents firing from an embassy kills a truth about the weakness of the the local PLO office? Oh, no, they are British policewoman, and Qadhafi's United Nations, not that we need to allowed to be open. reaction is to threaten to hold every get out of it, but that we need to be Do we stop you when you get your Britain in Libya hostage, not to apolo­ honest about what has happened to passport and your tickets, and you get gize, not to turn over the killer, not to the United Nations, that it is now on an airplane to fly to Libya or Cuba, promise that he will clean up his gov­ frankly, a battlefield. It is not a sanc­ or the South Yemen to get training? ernment, but in fact to turn and do tuary for law. It is an arena in which No, we will let you go. the opposite and say, sure, we killed forces like Libya and forces like Syria Do we stop when we know that there your policewoman, so what. If you and the terrorists have as much influ­ are 70 of you sitting around in a camp bother us, we are going to hold every ence or almost as much influence as being trained to be terrorists? No. person from Britain in our country the Americans. Do we stop the guy who trains you? hostage, and then the British did Finally, at the diplomatic, military No. nothing, and nothing will happen level, let me suggest that we should When do we finally stop you? until we recognize that we are engaged specifically make an example of Libya Well, we may or may not stop you in a war. and Cuba, Cuba and the Western after you have committed terrorist But that also means, by the way, Hemisphere in Africa, Libya virtually acts, after you have had the hostages, that the news media has an obligation. across the planet. They have been the after you have humiliated us and If we are going to retain freedom of two primary agencies directing terror- showed up on television around the the press, we have to retain a free soci- July 8, 1985 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE 18047 ety. One step the President should man will learn that, for example, a and nothing is done, if it is acceptable take is invite the great magnates of Delta team is moving in to attempt to to kill an American sailor in the the media to lunch, the owners of the steal a Russian airplane. What if Middle East and nothing is done, if major newpapers and news magazines, somebody decides they are going to Americans, Britains, French, Italians, and leaders of the major television break the story and five of our soldiers Germans, Israelies, anybody who lives networks. At the luncheon, he should are killed as a consequence? Should in a free society is a hostage to terror­ ask them to establish a professional their families have legal liability ists, that terrorism is accountable to review board to undertake these four against the news organization? Should no one, then nothing will be done. steps: they then be able to say "My hus­ In closing let me say in particular to First, to review the recent crisis and band" or "My father died because you our friends in the news media, you look at how we were manipulated, how broke secrecy"? Should rules of secre­ possibly more than anyone have a the press and the media were manipu­ cy apply? vested interest in understanding what lated by the terrorists. Would anyone really argue that in has happened. For you must recognize Second, to look at the lessor~ of free 1944 the news media had the moral that in fact, without a free society countries such as Germany in dealing and legal right to break the Normandy there would be no free news media; with hostage crises. invasion story before Dwight Eisen­ that the first people killed in a totali­ Third, to look at establishing a new hower said it was OK? Would it really tarian state are the very intellectuals set of professional rules for covering have been appropriate? Is that kind of and reporters who thought it was ex­ future crises. censorship only appropriate in time of citing that leftwing tyrannies were This does not have to involve censor­ war? In which case, should the news being established. ship. It could involve, for example, media recommend to us, for example, We will only survive as a free people something as simple as every televi­ that Congress should pass a declara­ if we educate ourselves, if we look seri­ sion network having before and after tion of war against terrorism so that ously and candidly at the dangers of every hostage news program a serious those ground rules would be under­ terrorism and if we establish a division discussion and explanation of the psy­ way? of strategy level, a general structure chological problems of being a hos­ Finally, what if they endanger se­ within which to wage war on terror­ tage. If the average American had crets? ism. been told in advance that there is a It is fairly clear, for example, that in For this administration or this Con­ clear syndrome by which a hostage the news media coverage of the gress or this Nation to rush off to two identifies with the captor, that we lit­ German actions in Somalia in the or three activities, to close the airport erally know with the Patty Hearst 1970's that a very powerful device at Beirut, to go out and kill one or two case and others that once you see which confused and upset the terror­ terrorists, to seek out one or two acts somebody and hold them long enough, ists was revealed by the news media, of reprisal might be satisfying in the they identify with the people who are that in fact, a secret device which had short run; in the long run they will terrorizing them. been invented by the Germans which Once you see that you will under­ was very, very effective, was revealed not defeat terrorism. stand and you can sympathize with to every future terrorist; that in fact if In the long run what we need is a whatever the hostages are saying. If it you are a terrorist you do not need to international strategy for the defense has been explained carefully, for ex­ have an intelligence agency, you just of democracy, the destruction of ter­ ample, "You are now about to see a need to buy the news magazines. You rorism, an international alliance press conference set up by terrorists in do not have to invest in an awful lot of against terrorism and a willingness to which people who were being terror­ spies; you just have to subscribe to the seriously commit ourselves to a 5-, 10-, ized will talk, knowing that the terror­ daily newspapers. You do not have to or 15-year war if that is necessary to ists could shoot them if they say the have a large, elaborate network set up ensure that in the end it is the free wrong thing; please watch everything to report back what is going on; you people, the democracies who survive, with that information in mind." just turn on your TV set. and it is the terrorists who shall have At that moment you will have To what extent should we be looking perished. stripped the terrorists of all their systematically, with the advice and I thank the Speaker. propaganda advantage. Simple profes­ guidance of the professional news sional rules of the game can dramati­ media, at rearranging the rules of the DEMOCRATIC RADIO ADDRESS cally improve the sophistication of the game so that specifically as it relates OF THE HONORABLE MARY news media in dealing with the hos­ to terrorists and to hostage situations ROSE OAKAR tage crisis. we establish far more sophisticated Finally the news media themselves rules of engagement? The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under should recommend legal changes to Finally, let me suggest that as the a previous order of the House, the gen­ the Congress. There are three areas executive branch looks at all this it tleman from Arkansas [Mr. ALEXAN­ where we need to consider seriously has to recognize that the structures es­ DER] is recognized for 10 minutes. changing the law and these proposals tablished under Presidents Truman e Mr. ALEXANDER. Mr. Speaker, should come from the professional and Eisenhower are now inadequate. our colleague, MARY RosE OAKAR of news media rather than from politi­ The great bureaucracies of national Ohio, used the Democratic radio ad­ cians. security are simply not functioning dress last Saturday to present a clear First, what should happen if the very well. We are going to have to and honest account of the budget news media endanger innocent people, rethink how we exist in a very, very issues facing Congress and raised the the hostages? Let us say that a news­ dangerous world. issue of fairness in the President's tax man learns something but knows that I would like to suggest, in closing, reform proposals. if he goes on the air the hostage will that the Western democracies are not It was an excellent statement which be killed; should the hostage's family going to survive for another 50 years if I introduce into the REcORD for the have the right to sue that organization we allow at the margin the Soviet convenience of my colleagues: for the deliberate killing of their loved Union to systematically plot our de­ DEMOCRATIC RADIO AnDRESS OF CONGRESS· one? Should the news media be liable struction and we allow at the margin WOMAN MARY RosE OAKAR, JuLY 6, 1985 because they literally caused the every group in the world that hates