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Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security SECU Ï NUMBER 112 Ï 1st SESSION Ï 42nd PARLIAMENT EVIDENCE Tuesday, May 8, 2018 Chair The Honourable John McKay 1 Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security Tuesday, May 8, 2018 recent years. Between 2013 and 2016 the number of criminal incidents involving firearms rose by 30%. Gun homicides in that Ï (1100) period went up by two-thirds. Intimate partner and gender-based [English] violence involving firearms was up by one-third. Gang-related The Chair (Hon. John McKay (Scarborough—Guildwood, homicides, most of which involve guns, were up by two-thirds. Lib.)): Ladies and gentlemen, let's call this meeting to order, please. Break-ins for the purpose of the stealing of firearms were up by 56% between 2013 and 2016, and by a whopping 865% since the year This is the 112th meeting of the Standing Committee on Public 2008. Safety and National Security. We are welcoming Minister Goodale and his officials here to talk The problem is obvious. The bottom line is that we have a about Bill C-71. This is the commencement of our study on Bill problem of increasing gun violence in Canada. It's not a problem we C-71. I was going to award Minister Goodale frequent flyer points can blame on other countries, because police in British Columbia, for appearing before the committee, but it appears that I would be Toronto, Calgary, Regina, Ottawa, and other places now confirm that prematurely awarding those points because the House has just most guns used to commit crimes in Canada are domestically adopted a Wednesday schedule for Thursday. Therefore, our meeting sourced. It's not a problem limited to urban centres. In Atlantic on Thursday between 11 a.m. and 1 p.m. is cancelled and we will Canada, for example, over half of all gun crimes occur in rural areas, have to have some discussion as to how to replace that meeting. and over 60% of gun crimes in my own province of Saskatchewan We'll do that at the end of this meeting. happen outside of the major cities. Welcome Minister Goodale. We look forward to your remarks and This is a Canadian problem and it's a Canada-wide problem. We questions. need to tackle it head-on in ways that are effective and focused on I'm assuming you'll introduce your officials. public safety outcomes while ensuring the firearms owners and businesses are treated fairly and reasonably. Hon. Ralph Goodale (Minister of Public Safety and Emer- gency Preparedness): Yes, I will, Mr. Chairman. Bill C-71 accomplishes those objectives. Thank you very much and good morning to the committee. First, it will enhance background checks for people seeking to I'm glad to be here as you begin your discussion with respect to acquire firearms. As I noted at second reading, this particular Bill C-71, which is legislation that upholds our government's measure was proposed some 15 years ago by former Conservative commitment to help protect Canadian communities from gun cabinet minister, James Moore. It does seem to have very broad violence while ensuring fair and reasonable treatment for firearms support. owners and businesses. I'm happy to be joined today by Randall Koops, who is director Right now, when a person applies for a licence, there's a general of policing policy at the Department of Public Safety. mandatory look back over the immediately preceding five years to Superintendent Paul Brown is the acting director general of the see whether they have in that period of time been engaged in any Canadian firearms program within the RCMP. Paula Clarke is from violent behaviour or been treated for a mental illness associated with the Department of Justice. violence. Bill C-71 will remove that five-year limitation so that a person's entire record will be taken into account. That will help [Translation] ensure, quite simply, that people with a history of violence do not get We have no more important responsibility than the protection of guns. Canadian communities, and all the elements of this bill are directly related to public safety. They will better protect Canadians from gun The legislation will also help ensure that people who acquire violence, while treating firearms owners fairly and reasonably. firearms are actually licensed to own them. Since 2012, all that has [English] been required in this regard at the time of a sale is that the vendor have “no reason to believe” that the purchaser is not licensed. It's a While crime rates in Canada overall have been on the decline, double negative. Vendors often check anyway, but they are not, in thankfully, for decades, the rate of gun violence has been going up in fact, required to do so. 2 SECU-112 May 8, 2018 Ï (1105) Ï (1110) That can be a problem, for instance, in the case of a long-time The Chair: Thank you, Minister Goodale. customer of a small firearms shop who recently committed an act of violence and had his licence revoked. The owner of the shop Ms. Damoff, you have seven minutes please. wouldn't particularly know that, but if he's known that particular customer for many years, he just might assume that the licence is still Ms. Pam Damoff (Oakville North—Burlington, Lib.): Thank valid and sell him a firearm anyway, in good faith, because he had no you, Chair. reason to believe the contrary. Bill C-71 will require a quick phone call or online verification Minister, thank you for joining us today on this very important before any sale to make sure that the buyer's licence is still valid. piece of legislation. That is just common sense. It's the licence that is being verified. There is no reference in this process to any particular firearm. I want to focus my first question on the issue of domestic This bill will also ensure that the classification of firearms is based violence, gender-based violence, and intimate partner violence. We on public safety and not on politics. Parliament will continue to know that not only are firearms used in this case but, more importantly, they're also used as a means to threaten the partner, like control the definitions that create the three classes of firearms. Bill holding, in most cases, a woman hostage, because they know that C-71 repeals the authority the last government gave itself to overrule the RCMP's application of the law. As with many other laws and their partner has a firearm. I have personal experience with a good regulatory frameworks, the rules will be established by elected friend whose ex-husband legally owned firearms and used those as a threat for violence to hold her hostage. officials and then they will be applied by law enforcement. As part of this change, the two instances where the previous Minister, I want to ask you about the background checks. The government overruled police experts will be reversed, but we will chief firearms officer has a very prescriptive list of what they look allow people who have acquired these two types of firearms to be for on background checks. When I've talked to some of the grandfathered in the interest of fairness, because they acted in good organizations that deal with women who are fleeing abuse, they've faith at the time. asked if it would be possible to add something along the lines of “any other risks associated with violence”, so that when the Bill C-71 will also reinstate the requirement to get authorization background check is being done, it's expanded slightly beyond that before transporting restricted and prohibited firearms, with two key prescriptive list. exceptions: taking a firearm home after you buy it, and taking it back and forth between your residence and a shooting range. This will help police who encounter someone transporting a prohibited or I understand that they've spoken with you about this. What are restricted firearm. It will help the police determine whether it's being your thoughts on adding something along those lines? transported for a legitimate purpose. Getting authorization is, again, a matter of a simple phone call or logging into an online portal. It Hon. Ralph Goodale: Ms. Damoff, the debate around firearms should not be an onerous burden. and gun violence can sometimes become very divisive. People hold strong points of view, and they argue those points of view Finally, this bill will reinstate the rule that was in place from 1979 aggressively. However, one thing I've noticed in this debate, and to 1995, requiring firearms businesses to keep track of their sales. particularly on that provision about expanding background checks, is This is something that has been compulsory in the United States that there seems to be a very broad consensus that cuts across all since 1968. Most Canadian vendors do it today even though they perspectives and points of view, and indeed across all political don't have to. Standardizing this good business practice will help parties. police trace guns used in crimes, detect straw purchasing schemes, and identify trafficking networks. I mentioned in my remarks that the origin of some of this content goes back to James Moore, who was a very prominent member of Critically, the records will be privately owned by the retailer. They the former Conservative government. There appears to be broad will not be accessible to government, but police will be able to gain public support for the notion of strengthening background checks so access for the purposes of a criminal investigation on reasonable that ab initio, if someone is applying for a licence and they have a grounds and with judicial authorization, as appropriate.