COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
HOUSE CONSUMER AFFAIRS COMMITTEE HEARING
STATE CAPITOL MAIN CAPITOL BUILDING MAJORITY CAUCUS ROOM 140 HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 1, 2020
IN RE: HOUSE BILL 531 COMMUNITY SOLAR
BEFORE:
HONORABLE BRAD ROAE, MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE ROB MATZIE, MINORITY CHAIRMAN (V) HONORABLE SHERYL DELOZIER HONORABLE FRANK FARRY HONORABLE ROB KAUFFMAN HONORABLE RYAN MACKENZIE HONORABLE THOMAS MEHAFFIE HONORABLE ERIC NELSON HONORABLE TINA PICKETT HONORABLE CHRIS QUINN HONORABLE THOMAS SANKEY HONORABLE TODD STEPHENS (V) HONORABLE RYAN WARNER (V) HONORABLE MARTINA WHITE
————————— JEAN DAVIS REPORTING POST OFFICE BOX 125 • HERSHEY, PA 17033 PHONE (717)503-6568 1 BEFORE (cont'd.)
2 HONORABLE RYAN BIZZARRO HONORABLE DONNA BULLOCK (V) 3 HONORABLE TINA DAVIS (V) HONORABLE MARTY FLYNN 4 HONORABLE ED NEILSON (V) HONORABLE PETER SCHWEYER 5 HONORABLE PAM SNYDER
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2 1 STAFF MEMBERS ALSO IN ATTENDANCE:
2 PHIL KIRCHNER, REPUBLICAN CAUCUS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR HEATHER RODGERS, REPUBLICAN CAUCUS, LEGISLATIVE 3 ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT II MARCUS HUERTAS, REPUBLICAN CAUCUS 4 BETH ROSENTEL, DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
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13 JEAN M. DAVIS, REPORTER 14 NOTARY PUBLIC
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3 1 I N D E X TESTIFIERS 2
3 NAME PAGE
4 REPRESENTATIVE AARON KAUFER, 8 PRIME SPONSOR OF HOUSE BILL 531 5 LESLIE ELDER, MID-ATLANTIC DIRECTOR 10 6 COALITION FOR COMMUNITY SOLAR ACCESS
7 CHAD FORCEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 21 PENNSYLVANIA CONSERVATION ENERGY FORUM 8 LAUREN BRUNSDALE, ASSOCIATE DEVELOPER, 27 9 COMMUNITY ENERGY
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4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S
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3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Good morning, everyone.
4 I'm calling this hearing to order. I think we're
5 going to skip the attendance today just in the interest of
6 time. We only have an hour to do this, so we're going to
7 try to get started right away here.
8 The topic today is community solar. There's been
9 quite a bit of interest on this legislation. Representative
10 Kaufer has really been pushing for this legislation and he
11 convinced me to have a hearing on the issue. He'll be
12 talking about it in a little bit here.
13 When we look at our electricity supply in
14 Pennsylvania, we have a very diverse portfolio of electric.
15 It used to be almost all coal. Well, now it's coal and
16 nuclear and natural gas. Solar is up to about one-half of 1
17 percent of all the electricity that's generated -- or
18 purchased in Pennsylvania, I should say.
19 I'm just going to leave my opening comments
20 brief. We do have members that are joining us online today.
21 And we have members present here in the room. So we're
22 going to try to get through the technology hurdles as well
23 as we can.
24 And filling in for the Minority Chairman today is
25 Representative Schweyer. I'll let him make his opening
5 1 comments now.
2 REPRESENTATIVE SCHWEYER: Thank you, Mr.
3 Chairman.
4 This is a topic that has been a number of
5 sessions now in the making. I remember being part of
6 conversations in the 2017-2018 session. So this is an issue
7 that is certainly worthy of this Committee's full
8 consideration.
9 And I think this is a great first hearing on this
10 topic. There's certainly a number of facets to it beyond
11 just what the -- beyond the advocates for it. And there's
12 some things that we're going to need to consider. But I
13 really appreciate where this bill is going. I mean, I've
14 been a prime sponsor of this bill for multiple sessions now
15 -- or a cosponsor, excuse me.
16 I just want to make quick mention for the members
17 and the public and members of the Legislature that are
18 joining us on the Microsoft Teams feed, that is, to my right
19 and in front of me here, that if you're using the chat
20 feature, that will be a matter of public record.
21 It's something for you to kind of keep in mind
22 that it's not like a caucus thing. I know our caucus uses
23 this and sometimes there's conversations that go back and
24 forth. I want folks to know that this is, in fact, all
25 being recorded and all a matter of public record.
6 1 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
2 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Thank you,
3 Representative Schweyer.
4 And also if Representative -- if Chairman Matzie
5 has the technology and capability, would you like to make
6 any comments?
7 MINORITY CHAIRMAN MATZIE: Thank you, Mr.
8 Chairman.
9 I just appreciate you having the hearing. I know
10 we were supposed to have this back in March. I'm sorry my
11 presence at the Capitol today is not able to happen, but I
12 appreciate you having this. I'll leave it in the capable
13 hands of Representative Schweyer to handle my duties, but
14 I'll be listening and participating via Microsoft Teams.
15 It's an important topic, as I've said many, many
16 times this session. Energy is vital to not only our history
17 but to our economy. And any opportunity we have to have
18 conversations about how energy policy proceeds and how
19 energy policy plays out, it's an important topic.
20 So I appreciate you having this hearing. Thank
21 you.
22 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: All right. Thank you,
23 Chairman Matzie.
24 And I would like to remind people, in addition to
25 what Representative Schweyer was saying, remember to please
7 1 mute your microphones when you're not talking. And remember
2 if you have your video camera on, we can all see you. So
3 you might want to have your video camera off as well.
4 So we're going to get started here.
5 Representative Kaufer, you're the prime sponsor of the
6 legislation. You can start with your comments first, if you
7 wish.
8 REPRESENTATIVE KAUFER: Thank you, Chairman Roae,
9 Chairman Matzie, Acting Chairman Schweyer. I appreciate you
10 having this hearing here today to talk about community solar
11 and its impact that it could have here on Pennsylvania.
12 There are about 20 states right now, including I
13 think all of our surrounding states right now, that are
14 doing community solar. Right now there are developers out
15 there trying to do these types of projects all throughout
16 the Commonwealth to the tune of over $2 billion of private
17 investment waiting to happen here in Pennsylvania. I'll say
18 that again. To the tune of over $2 billion of private
19 investment waiting to happen here in Pennsylvania.
20 There are thousands of jobs on the line with this
21 legislation. And I might add that there are no State tax
22 dollar s that are needed for these types of projects as
23 well. So when we're talking about the amount of jobs, the
24 amount the private investment happening here, especially at
25 a time where our budget has been ravished by COVID, there's
8 1 no doubt that the revenue piece of this is not in the back
2 of people's minds as we talk about this because when you
3 have billions of dollars worth of investment, there is
4 revenue that will be produced for our budget as well.
5 I would like to just -- before I turn it over,
6 because I want to let the testifiers speak about the
7 expertise on this besides just being the prime sponsor, I
8 would like to comment about how important this is for our
9 farmers throughout all of Pennsylvania.
10 Our farmers are viewing this type of legislation
11 as their lifeline of keeping their farms up and running, of
12 having property that they're currently not using or unable
13 to use to actually be able to generate revenue to keep
14 family farms up and operating.
15 The Farm Bureau has been very supportive of this
16 legislation. And I think it's something that throughout
17 rural Pennsylvania, suburban Pennsylvania, and urban
18 Pennsylvania, this is a bill that works and something that
19 we should try to highlight moving forward to make sure that
20 we can get this type of investment, these types of jobs,
21 revenue for our budget, and also clean and renewable energy
22 here for Pennsylvania.
23 Thank you, Chairman. I'll pass it over to the
24 testifiers.
25 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: All right.
9 1 Thank you, Representative Kaufer.
2 Providing testimony today is going to be Leslie
3 Elder, the Mid-Atlantic Director of Coalition for Community
4 Solar Access; Chad Forcey, Executive Director of
5 Pennsylvania Conservative Energy Forum; and Lauren
6 Brunsdale, Associate Developer, Community Energy.
7 So is Leslie here? We can start with you.
8 You're first on the list here.
9 Make sure that green light is on on your
10 microphone, please.
11 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Thank you.
12 Also thank you, Chairman Roae and Schweyer.
13 Thank you for giving the coalition for --
14 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Excuse me for one
15 moment. Maybe have the microphone a little bit closer to
16 you.
17 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Sure. Is that better?
18 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Yeah, it is.
19 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Great.
20 So thank you for giving the Coalition for
21 Community Solar Access, which is also known as CCSA, the
22 opportunity to discuss community solar policies in
23 Pennsylvania.
24 I'm Leslie Elder. I am the Mid-Atlantic Director
25 for CCSA. I am based in Pennsylvania and live in
10 1 Philadelphia. So this legislation is very near and dear to
2 my heart. CCSA is a national coalition of businesses and
3 non-profits who are working together in order to expand
4 customer choice.
5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Can you excuse me for
6 one second?
7 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Sure.
8 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: The equipment that's --
9 is there a way to turn that volume down a little bit without
10 interfering with the people watching online. It's kind of
11 distracting. We don't want to cut anybody off that's doing
12 this remotely. But if we could reduce the volume on the
13 equipment in the room here, that might make it easier for
14 folks to hear that are in the room.
15 Okay. Go ahead. Continue.
16 MS. LESLIE ELDER: So our mission is to empower
17 all American households and businesses who seek homegrown
18 energy sources through community solar. We work with
19 customers, utilities, stakeholders, and policymakers, like
20 yourself, in order to make sure that we're implementing best
21 practices that we've learned across the country.
22 Now, our businesses work every level of the steps
23 through stakeholder engagement, through the development
24 process to ensure that these best practices are not just
25 theoretical but they are actually applied and practiced in
11 1 the field.
2 We have members who are headquartered in
3 Pennsylvania, as myself, as well as Community Energy. And
4 we also have others that are interested in investing in
5 Pennsylvania. So today CCSA is very honored to submit
6 testimony in support of House Bill 531.
7 Now, for some basics on what community solar is.
8 Community solar is a product that is considered an
9 in-between product between your rooftop insulations that you
10 all are used to seeing, as well as it's smaller than the
11 larger scale grid scale projects or better known as utility
12 scale projects. It's considered distributed generation, so
13 it happens behind the meter.
14 Community solar allows the private sector to work
15 in collaboration with our utilities to provide homegrown
16 energy sources to our local communities. And ultimately it
17 reduces cost on our consumers. Community solar refers to
18 local, third-party-owned, solar facilities shared by
19 multiple community subscribers that receive a credit on
20 their bill for the amount of energy that they use and the
21 solar facility produce s.
22 Community solar provides homeowners, renters, and
23 businesses equal access to solar energy that have often been
24 left behind from being able to access that.
25 There are several barriers that prevent people
12 1 from having access to solar energy, including homeownership
2 or building ownership. They don't have a roof that is
3 suitable in order to host a facility itself. It can be
4 financially burdensome.
5 So community solar really is the product that
6 allows people to access solar energy without these common
7 buyers. It expands access to solar for all. It provides
8 energy choice for customers and diversifies our generation
9 sources with homegrown energy. This ultimately builds a
10 strong, distributed, and more resilient grid.
11 There are 40 states that currently have a
12 community solar facility online. And 20 states, plus
13 Washington, D.C., have passed legislation to enable
14 community solar programs. Virginia was the most recent
15 passing legislation this year. Ohio has introduced
16 legislation this spring. Maryland, New Jersey, and New York
17 also all have real best community solar programs currently.
18 These programs have created tens of thousands of
19 jobs nationwide and have and will continue to spur local
20 economic investments in each of those states.
21 Representative Kaufer's House Bill 531 will
22 enable community solar projects in the Commonwealth by
23 removing the red tape that is preventing them from becoming
24 a competitive market. Most importantly this bill will not
25 raise taxes. Furthermore, Representative Kaufer has
13 1 tirelessly worked to get feedback from numerous stakeholders
2 across the state, including developers as members of CCSA,
3 the electric distribution companies, the agricultural
4 community, the building trades, and other critical
5 stakeholders.
6 He's doing this to find a solution that will
7 really work for Pennsylvania and our unique and diverse
8 energy market.
9 When we see this bill pass, Pennsylvania will see
10 a new stream of corporate investments from the solar
11 industry. Why new? Because it's a new market. And this
12 will create new jobs, a new stream of tax dollars for both
13 the state and local municipalities, and new corporate
14 investments into the Commonwealth.
15 One of CCSA's partner organizations, Vote Solar
16 and NREL, which is also known as the National Renewable
17 Energy Laboratory, modeled the economic benefits of House
18 Bill 531. And as Representative Kaufer already stated,
19 there will be over $2 billion in local economic benefits if
20 only 1.5 gigawatts of community solar was built in the
21 state. This does not include any local taxes that will be
22 collected from these projects.
23 On average, the Commonwealth will see over $40
24 million per year for the next 25 years, which is the average
25 life cycle of a solar facility. It is important to note
14 1 that CCSA member companies have already been making large
2 investments into the Commonwealth with anticipation of the
3 passage of House Bill 531.
4 Today there are over 220 shovel-ready projects in
5 over 40 counties ready to go as soon as this bill passes.
6 These developers have already invested between three and
7 four million dollars in land leasings going directly to our
8 farmers at this moment in anticipation of the passage of
9 531.
10 House Bill 531 will drive much-needed tax dollars
11 into our Commonwealth and our local communities that have
12 been hit very hard by the economic downturn and by the
13 Coronavirus pandemic. These tax dollars, which are paid for
14 by community solar developers, can help fund schools,
15 decrease property tax burdens for seniors, fund critical
16 infrastructure needs, or simply just refill the critical
17 coffers that the government needs.
18 The Commonwealth will also see a 75 percent
19 increase in solar jobs, including over 3,000 sustained jobs
20 in the first five years. This program will pay an average
21 family-sustaining wage of $33 per hour. This will create
22 over $1 billion in economic earnings for Pennsylvania.
23 According to a Penn State report from the College
24 of Agriculture Science on population trends and employment,
25 we are experiencing both a decline in population as well as
15 1 job opportunities in our rural communities. Many of these
2 new solar jobs will be in rural communities where the
3 community solar facilities will be built and maintained.
4 We really do have a unique opportunity to reshape
5 Pennsylvania with a new labor force built on innovation,
6 technology, and free markets. There are numerous
7 opportunities to develop a pipeline of innovative and
8 skilled labor in non-urban communities with solar
9 technology.
10 The impacts of COVID have been devastating for
11 the Commonwealth. And with the current unemployment rate of
12 13.7 percent, community solar can add very much-needed new
13 jobs at a time that our citizens are desperate for
14 employment.
15 As mentioned earlier, community solar is
16 considered behind the meter in its distributed generation.
17 This means that all community solar facilities will be
18 permitted at the local level and will be required to adhere
19 to all conservation, land management, and local community
20 requirements. No community solar facility will infringe on
21 the property rights of landowners and are prohibited from
22 development through eminent domain.
23 It is important to note that community solar
24 facilities can only be built by meeting the unique means of
25 the landowners and the surrounding communities. Community
16 1 solar presents an enormous opportunity for farmers in
2 Pennsylvania to obtain year-round and dependable income to
3 improve the economics of their family farms.
4 This is done by leasing a very small portion of
5 their land for a community solar facility. This is a
6 practice that is becoming more popular in rural America.
7 The agricultural industry, as you all very well know, is
8 central to Pennsylvania's rich history and economy. And it
9 contributes to a significant amount annually to the State's
10 exports.
11 As you know, the Commonwealth is home to the
12 Mushroom Capital of the World and some of the most coveted
13 dairy farms in the nation. However, after six straight
14 years of declining milk prices, Pennsylvania dairy farmers
15 are suffering. Furthermore, the Commonwealth is
16 experiencing a loss of family farms. And in 2018 alone we
17 lost 370 family farms.
18 And also farmers have only been breaking even.
19 And I say barely breaking even since 2015. Now, I know that
20 the farmers were given much-needed assistance by both the
21 State and Federal Government through their relief packages.
22 And through talking to them, I know that they are incredibly
23 grateful for those things.
24 But the impacts felt by disruptions in the supply
25 chain, institutions, and businesses who purchase their
17 1 commodities and increased volatility in markets will be felt
2 for many years, if not decades, to come.
3 Many farmers do not see a feasible pathway for
4 farm succession. And it is very important that this
5 Legislature consider alternatives to bolster viability for
6 farmers and support new farmers in succession planning.
7 Farmers really do need help now, especially considering the
8 average age of a Pennsylvania farmer is 55 and many of them
9 will be looking to respectfully retire in the next few
10 years.
11 CCSA and our member companies are committed to
12 working hand in hand with the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau and
13 individual farmers and local communities to develop land
14 leasing best practices before the program is implemented.
15 We are committed to building longstanding relationships
16 anchored in trust with individual farmers, the Farm Bureau,
17 and all others to execute contracts and leases that serve
18 the farmer and the community's unique needs.
19 Additionally, the industry is committed to
20 innovation and technology to make sure that panels are more
21 efficient, we can make agro-photovoltaic uses and
22 technologies readily available, dual-use practices, and
23 development techniques to preserve the health and well-being
24 of the land.
25 As I mentioned earlier, community solar
18 1 installations are an effective means of supplementing income
2 to help keep family farms financially viable in very
3 challenging and changing markets.
4 Bruce Sensenig of Lebanon, Pennsylvania, is
5 developing a community solar project on his land in order
6 for his family to continue farming. His son and his
7 daughter-in-law are very hopeful that the community solar
8 facility will give them the economic security that they need
9 to take over the management of the entire operation from
10 their father.
11 Without community solar, the possibility of
12 preserving the family farm would not exist and the
13 alternative would be to sell the land to a housing
14 development. This would cause the loss of this prime
15 agricultural land forever.
16 I recently met with a third-generation farmer in
17 south central Pennsylvania who is a member of his local Farm
18 Bureau. His name is Paul Mason. He is from Nottingham,
19 Pennsylvania. He is fortunate enough to have land that
20 crosses across the state line, so he has land in
21 Pennsylvania and in Maryland.
22 In Maryland he has built a community solar
23 facility on less than 10 acres of his land. This is
24 allowing him to have the financial security blanket that he
25 needs to weather the times that he has experienced through
19 1 COVID, as well as volatile market prices for milk. However,
2 Mr. Mason is extremely eager to see the passage of House
3 Bill 531 so he can also lease a small portion of his land in
4 Pennsylvania. This is incredibly important to him as he
5 wants the financial security for the next 25 years so he can
6 pass this land on to his young children in the fourth
7 generation.
8 Considering 98 percent of the farms in the
9 Commonwealth are family-owned, enabling community solar
10 legislation is economically significant for farmers, local
11 municipalities, and Pennsylvania as a whole. For these
12 reasons, and on behalf of farmers across the State, the
13 Pennsylvania Farm Bureau has come out in full-throttled
14 support of House Bill 531 and adopting community solar as a
15 tool to provide new opportunities for Pennsylvania farmers.
16 So CCSA looks forward to working very closely
17 with you, Chairman Roae, Schweyer, and Matzie, who is
18 online, as well as the other members of the Consumer Affairs
19 Committee and also with Representative Kaufer, in order to
20 bring this new economic opportunity to Pennsylvania in 2020.
21 Thank you for your time. And I look forward to
22 your questions.
23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: All right.
24 Thank you for your testimony.
25 We're going to wait until all three testifiers
20 1 testify and then we're going to do the questions.
2 So up next if we can have Chad Forcey from the
3 Pennsylvania Conservation Energy Forum offer his testimony.
4 MR. CHAD FORCEY: Good morning, Chairman Roae,
5 Chairman Matzie, Representative Schweyer, and members of the
6 House Consumer Affairs Committee. My name is Chad Forcey
7 and I am the Executive Director of the Pennsylvania
8 Conservative Energy Forum.
9 The Pennsylvania Conservative Energy Forum, or
10 PennCEF, is a 501(c)3 non-profit educational foundation
11 committed to clean and renewable energy and energy diversity
12 in the Commonwealth.
13 We are led by a board and leadership council of
14 prominent Pennsylvania conservative leaders from government,
15 industry, and education. This includes folks like former
16 Lieutenant Governor Jim Cawley, former Reagan Administration
17 Navy Secretary and 9-11 Commission member Dr. John Lehman,
18 former State Representative Tom Stevenson, and many others.
19 PennCEF believes that renewables like solar,
20 wind, and biomass should be included in our proud
21 Pennsylvania all of the above energy sector. For PennCEF,
22 all of the above means that renewables deserve full access
23 to markets in addition to other significant sources like
24 natural gas, nuclear, and coal.
25 The Commonwealth leads our nation in domestically
21 1 produced energy experts. Next-generation solar technologies
2 bring the promise of even greater economic expansion to our
3 strong and diverse energy portfolio. Clean and renewable
4 energy jobs now account for the greatest portion of job
5 growth in this sector as illustrated in the 2019 E2 Clean
6 Jobs Pennsylvania Report.
7 The report found that Pennsylvania's clean energy
8 jobs now stand at more than 90,000 and are growing at an
9 annual rate of 6 percent, which is a growth rate five times
10 the overall job growth in Pennsylvania prepandemic. As we
11 emerge from the ravages of the pandemic, the need for
12 economic recovery is paramount.
13 In the field of solar, legislation that opens
14 markets to create more jobs and spur new investments
15 represents a real win for Pennsylvania. House Bill 531
16 would accomplish these goals through the creation of a new
17 community solar marketplace in the Commonwealth.
18 House Bill 531. As conservatives, we believe in
19 open markets, less red tape, and greater economic freedom.
20 House Bill 531 accomplishes these goals in the spirit of
21 free-market capitalism which we cherish. We thank State
22 Representative Aaron Kaufer and State Representative Donna
23 Bullock plus the more than 80 additional House members, many
24 of whom are on this Committee, who cosponsored the
25 legislation for the introduction of the community solar
22 1 legislation in Pennsylvania.
2 House Bill 531 would allow the installation of
3 solar projects by multiple residents, farmers, or
4 businessowners on a single property. By extending this
5 right to community solar organizations, House Bill 531
6 provides far greater numbers of PA citizens the opportunity
7 to go solar.
8 As PennCEF leadership council member, former
9 Reagan Administration Navy Secretary and 9-11 Commission
10 member, Dr. John Lehman recently wrote in the Patriot News:
11 The advantages of allowing groups of citizens to come
12 together and complete a new solar project are many. It
13 would be much easier to install solar arrays. Currently,
14 the rule in Pennsylvania is one property, one solar project,
15 but the cost is often too high for individual farmers or
16 residents to develop a project on their own. Under the
17 legislation, however, individuals could band together to
18 finance each project.
19 So, in the farming context of farming, if one
20 farmer has a ridgeline otherwise unusable for growing crops,
21 he or she could form a community solar organization with a
22 group of neighboring farmers. Collectively, they could get
23 a loan for development and invest in their future as
24 farmers.
25 This example can be applied proportionally in the
23 1 business and residential property contexts. By increasing
2 access and leverage for development, House Bill 531
3 democratizes the ability to go solar for all of our
4 Pennsylvania citizens.
5 This legislation is the necessary next step in
6 opening new markets for electricity generation in
7 Pennsylvania. If this legislation is not passed in 2020, we
8 will keep the community solar market closed and homegrown
9 solar generation will remain out of reach for many
10 Pennsylvanians.
11 As 22 other states have found, opening these
12 markets is good for jobs and the economy. So one way to
13 make solar far more practical is to cut the red tape and
14 open the door for new investors. We understand that upwards
15 of $2 billion in new investments await the passage of this
16 bill in 2020.
17 Our solar industry is an American industry,
18 supplied by American companies that produce American
19 electricity. At least 25 companies produce solar panels in
20 the United States and more production is in the works from
21 these and other American entrepreneurs.
22 PennCEF supports American solar manufacturing,
23 installation and expansion and it is popular with all
24 voters. Our polling, conducted by respected Republican
25 pollster Glen Bolger, has consistently found that support
24 1 for solar at the national level is strong across all
2 political and demographic groups from 74 to 76 percent on
3 average. Our recent Pennsylvania numbers are even stronger,
4 with 81 percent in favor of community solar, including more
5 than 60 percent of Republican voters.
6 Additionally, I'm excited that if passed, House
7 Bill 531 will bring a new energy market online without any
8 new taxes or any new State expenditures. This bill, in
9 other words, doesn't cost the Commonwealth a dime but it
10 will generate significant economic growth.
11 I would be remiss if I did not mention the crisis
12 in Pennsylvania agriculture, which was discussed, prior to
13 the pandemic and has only worsened since then. Millions of
14 gallons of milk have been dumped due to the breakdown of
15 supply lines.
16 Dairy farms in Pennsylvania have borne the brunt
17 of this new economic reality, but farms in every major
18 commodity across Pennsylvania have been eligible for
19 emergency Federal assistance totaling more than $123 million
20 since February.
21 There is no question that House Bill 531 would
22 help farmers to diversify their profits and be productive
23 and take advantage of the unused open space on hillsides, on
24 the roofs of barns, chicken houses, and other structures.
25 On the land itself, farmers can take advantage of temporary
25 1 development enhancements. And solar panels are not
2 permanent, by the way. Crops such as soybeans,
3 pollinator-friendly crops and even beehives can flourish
4 underneath solar panels.
5 So the Pennsylvania Farm Bureau has endorsed
6 House Bill 531. Their 2019 Senate testimony on the subject
7 states: We can see agriculture playing a key role in the
8 development of community solar projects. Community solar
9 would allow multiple landowners to pay for and receive
10 credit from a group project.
11 We believe that Pennsylvania should open the door
12 for community solar energy generation and give landowners
13 the ability to participate in these projects if they so
14 choose. We are calling on lawmakers to pass House Bill 531
15 so that more solar energy projects can get off the ground in
16 Pennsylvania.
17 I'd like to thank the Committee for the
18 opportunity to submit testimony on this important community
19 solar legislation. To restate, PennCEF strongly supports
20 the passage of House Bill 531.
21 I'll be happy to respond to any questions from
22 members of the Committee. I can also be reached at the
23 e-mail address listed here, which is
25 Thank you very much.
26 1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Thank you for your
2 testimony.
3 And again, we're going to wait until after all
4 three testifiers testify for the questions.
5 Our final testifier is Lauren Brunsdale from
6 Community Energy. Lauren is going to be with us
7 electronically, so hopefully this works out. I can see you.
8 Hopefully we will be able to hear you.
9 Go ahead when you're ready, Lauren.
10 MS. LAUREN BRUNSDALE: Great. Thank you.
11 Just a quick test. Can you hear me?
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: We can hear you and we
13 can see you.
14 MS. LAUREN BRUNSDALE: Okay. Excellent. Thank
15 you.
16 Well, thank you, Chairman Roae and members of the
17 House Consumer Affairs Committee. Thank you for allowing
18 Community Energy the opportunity to submit written and oral
19 testimony in favor of House Bill 531.
20 Community Energy is a 25-year Pennsylvania-based
21 company headquartered in Radnor. We specialize in
22 developing wind and solar at scale across the country.
23 Today Pennsylvanians are not able to participate
24 in the community solar market without legislative action to
25 open the market and allow access to community solar. House
27 1 Bill 531 removes the red tape by enabling Pennsylvanians to
2 participate in the community solar market through
3 subscriptions to projects built in Pennsylvania. This new
4 market will create the stability the industry needs to make
5 investments in Pennsylvania now, bringing more jobs in every
6 county and great economic stability to hardworking farming
7 communities.
8 Solar produces more jobs per unit of electricity
9 than any other source of generation and by a wide margin.
10 Solar jobs are good-paying jobs, including electricians,
11 surveyors, design and civil engineering, real estate,
12 geotechnical and material procurement, distribution,
13 construction, and operation and maintenance.
14 Solar works throughout the state from Erie to
15 Pittsburgh to Scranton and to Philadelphia. There's immense
16 solar electric generation potential in Pennsylvania and no
17 county is left out, which is very unique.
18 Hundreds of your constituents and farming
19 communities throughout the Commonwealth have recognized that
20 solar and farming go hand in hand. And during times of
21 economic hardship in our state, a wide array of farmers have
22 already decided to lease a small portion of their land to
23 farm the sun in exchange for a steady income and good
24 stewardship of the farmland by the solar projects.
25 Solar is one of the best tools we have for
28 1 preserving farmland under development pressure. A solar
2 project can pay three to five times the annual income from
3 farming and it's guaranteed for the life of the project.
4 And that allows the farmland to stay within the family for
5 future generations.
6 We install posts and racking with minimal
7 grading, without removing topsoil, and without concrete
8 foundations. Essentially solar is installed the same way
9 you put in a fence. You drive the piles into the ground and
10 you can pull them back out. Cover crops like deep-rooted
11 fescue grass and more recently pollinator-friendly cover
12 crops also improve the organic content of the soil year by
13 year as that land lays fallow so at the end of the life of
14 the project it's improved farmland for that farmer.
15 At the end of the 25-year lease, backed by a
16 decommissioning bond, a farmer can count on the removal of
17 the solar equipment right down to pulling those posts out of
18 the ground and it's improved farmland for the next
19 generation. That's crucial for farmers, farm families, and
20 all of us who depend on their crops and our energy.
21 Pennsylvania is behind on solar energy. There
22 are 40 states that have at least one community solar
23 facility online and 20 states, plus the District of
24 Columbia, that have passed legislation to enable community
25 solar projects creating investment opportunities in their
29 1 state or districts. Community solar projects, like Leslie
2 said, are larger than typical rooftop setups, but they're
3 smaller than the utility-scale installations.
4 They connect directly into the distribution grid
5 and are considered behind-the-meter projects. As such, the
6 economic drivers and benefits of community solar projects
7 differ from the other market sectors but provide a huge
8 benefit to the state. Community solar is not new, but it is
9 a unique market that Pennsylvania has an opportunity to
10 benefit from.
11 As an industry we have had many conversations
12 with your Committee members about these benefits and have
13 been focused on finding workable solutions that open the
14 market and meet the needs of Pennsylvania. As such,
15 Representative Kaufer has worked tirelessly in the creation
16 of House Bill 531 to find a solution that builds a bridge
17 for immediate investment in the Commonwealth, while also
18 looking to find long-term market solutions.
19 There are many good examples of effective
20 community solar markets around the country. In 2019,
21 Illinois COMED, a sister company to PECO, developed a smart
22 inverter service payment system that they tout as the most
23 innovative market mechanism for community solar and EDCs.
24 In 2014, Minnesota became the first state to adopt a value
25 of solar policy. Some of the key components of that are
30 1 based on avoiding the need to build additional power plant
2 capacity to meet peak energy; reducing wear and tear on the
3 electric grid, including power lines, substations, and power
4 plants; and purchasing energy from carbon-reducing sources.
5 One of the key values of community solar
6 facilities are the avoided capacity, transmission, and
7 distribution investments as a result of adding a community
8 solar project to the grid.
9 When a community solar facility is connected to
10 the distribution grid, a developer is required to pay any
11 necessary and reasonable upgrade costs associated with
12 allowing that facility to connect. And as such, the
13 community solar facilities come online and they reduce the
14 local stress of the system by meeting demand closer to the
15 source.
16 Expanding distributed solar electric generation
17 can defer or eliminate the need for new grid capacity
18 investments, particularly to avoid the cost of investing in
19 new power plants, transmission, and distribution lines, and
20 other forms of electricity infrastructure. Furthermore,
21 community solar developers will pay, as I said, for
22 interconnection upgrades and the implementation of this
23 community solar program at the Public Utility Commission.
24 An additional key benefit of solar electric
25 generation is that by producing more power during the hot
31 1 sunny days when demand is the highest, with no additional
2 fuel or operating cost, solar generation suppresses higher
3 energy prices during the times of peak demand, reducing the
4 cost of electricity during those key hours, sometimes called
5 peak shaving or price suppression.
6 This is not a new phenomenon but it has been seen
7 routinely in markets with higher percentages of renewables.
8 We quantified those savings in an economic dispatch study
9 that confirmed adding a significant amount of Pennsylvania
10 solar reduces overall wholesale electricity costs for PA
11 customers.
12 House Bill 531 offers Pennsylvania an important
13 opportunity to allow greater access to solar energy while
14 also stimulating local jobs and creating new investment for
15 farming communities that are the cornerstone of what makes
16 the Commonwealth so great.
17 Thank you for the opportunity to present some of
18 the facts on solar electric generation in Pennsylvania.
19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: All right. Thank you
20 for your testimony.
21 We're going to open it up for questions now.
22 I would like to ask that questions and answers be
23 brief. We only have about 19 minutes remaining that we can
24 be in this room.
25 I'm going to have the first question. Obviously,
32 1 the benefits of community solar are obvious. It helps
2 farmers. People that want to be involved with that that
3 don't have enough land, they can do it. Having a
4 diversified portfolio of production, generation of
5 electricity is a good thing.
6 The main concern that some folks have with the
7 legislation is normally, you know, when you look at an
8 electric bill, there's the charge on there for the cost of
9 energy. Then there's the charge for the distribution and
10 then there's a charge for the transmission. Those
11 distribution charges and transmission charges, that's what
12 maintains our electric grid, all the poles, the lines, the
13 substations.
14 The way this legislation is written, the
15 community solar folks would get the full retail price of the
16 electricity and nothing would be contributed towards helping
17 to maintain the grid. So that's the main stumbling block
18 with the legislation.
19 Would any of the three testifiers want to address
20 that issue briefly?
21 MS. LESLIE ELDER: I'm Leslie Elder, the
22 Mid-Atlantic Director for CCSA. Yeah, there are multiple
23 ways that you can facilitate the starting of a community
24 solar market utilizing net metering, which House Bill 531 as
25 written is one of the many ways.
33 1 There are other ways that can also be utilized
2 that Representative Kaufer has been working towards through
3 the mini stakeholder meetings. And Lauren actually referred
4 to a couple of them.
5 So the smart inverter, which was actually created
6 by COMED and its sister company of PECO is interested in
7 developing a smart inverter program -- they did this in
8 Illinois -- that actually provides the utility as a
9 regulatory asset in order for them to be able to do a lot of
10 those things that you're actually addressing.
11 There's also the value stack, which is a way for
12 the State of Pennsylvania to be able to gradually look at
13 the benefits of what needs to happen in order to maintain a
14 community solar market. The one thing that I would say on
15 this is that in order to make sure that we get that correct,
16 it does take time and a significant amount of analysis from
17 the PUC.
18 Thank you.
19 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Okay. Thank you.
20 Our next question is going to be Representative
21 Schweyer. He's asking a question. I believe it's on behalf
22 of Chairman Matzie.
23 REPRESENTATIVE SCHWEYER: I'm going to ask the
24 questions. And I believe both of them are on behalf of
25 Chairman Matzie. And if not, I'm sure Rob has no problem
34 1 telling me that I didn't.
2 First question, would the Coalition be okay if
3 the PUC would have a licensing component like they do with
4 other generations? You're nodding your head yes, so you're
5 fine with the PUC licensing.
6 And my second question -- and thank you,
7 Chairman, for the opportunity. I should have started with
8 that. The consumer advocate in their written testimony that
9 they provided us was asking specifically about a 2 megawatt
10 cap per development site. Can you expand just a little bit
11 on the size? You talked about a rough generation to get to
12 that $2 billion of economic development. You talked about a
13 1.5 gigawatt of development.
14 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Yes.
15 REPRESENTATIVE SCHWEYER: So how big are each one
16 of these sites? And if the consumer advocate suggested a 2
17 megawatt cap per site, how would that impact your
18 development in your industry?
19 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Yeah. Thank you for the
20 question.
21 So specifically the legislation at this moment in
22 time has a limit of a 5 megawatt cap. The big thing on this
23 is that it's economy of scale . So the ability to build
24 distributed generation, which still needs to be a small
25 facility, to be specific up to that 5 megawatts actually
35 1 lowers the cost of the market as a whole in order to be able
2 to ensure that we can actually pass on more savings to our
3 customers itself.
4 REPRESENT IVE SCHWEYER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Thank you.
6 Our next question is -- and everybody please be
7 brief -- from Representative Nelson.
8 REPRESENTATIVE NELSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
9 My question comes -- I was texting back and forth
10 with farmers and other individuals interested in community
11 solar. One of the roadblocks that some of our farmers are
12 experiencing is that depending on programs they may be
13 participating now, they're not allowed to do solar. They
14 can do gas but they are not allowed to harvest the sun, as
15 the third testifier, even though they can still do bees,
16 sheep, goats.
17 I know that's not in here. But how do we address
18 that issue? And then can you touch on best payment
19 practices? We've had some stumbling blocks with gas
20 percentage payments that landowners learned after the fact.
21 How will payments be instituted consistently for farmers and
22 others?
23 MS. LESLIE ELDER: So I'll answer part of it and
24 then I may defer some of this to Lauren who actually does
25 the contracts themselves.
36 1 So as far as -- I'm assuming that you're
2 referring to the Clean and Green Program as one of the
3 stumbling blocks with farmers. Two things. This
4 legislation will actually remove the red tape that is
5 preventing farmers from being able to participate in
6 development of community solar, which will do a couple of
7 different things.
8 One, they will be able to build community solar
9 onto their properties itself, provide the local communities
10 around them cost savings on energy. But they can also
11 subscribe to the community solar facility in order to
12 receive cost savings on their own very large energy burdens.
13 So that is the crux of this legislation itself.
14 As far as Clean and Green Programs go, that is a
15 negotiation that happens within the developers and the
16 landowners. And the developers tend to pay the back taxes
17 in order to be able to make that happen. And we also are
18 committed in order to make sure that we can do any of the
19 other changes that need to happen once this legislation is
20 passed.
21 As far as the land leasing, we are working hand
22 in hand with the Farm Bureau in order to ensure that we are
23 getting common principles around land leasing itself that
24 will be understood by the developers and the Farm Bureau for
25 local farmers in order to ensure that we can avoid some of
37 1 the problems that have happened in the past with leasing and
2 farmers in particular.
3 But Lauren has been doing this for a very long
4 time and has direct experience. So it might be helpful if
5 she can give you the direct experience on the ground for
6 both Clean and Green and leases.
7 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Go ahead, Lauren. And
8 briefly, if you will.
9 MS. LAUREN BRUNSDALE: Yep. Absolutely.
10 A bit more context on how the solar leases
11 typically work. We offer a dollar-per-acre value which is
12 paid annually over the course of the lease. So that can be
13 20 to 40 years for individual leases. And almost all
14 companies also have that number being applied with an
15 escalator. So it's escalating over time.
16 And while we're in lease negotiations with any
17 landowner, we always advise them to seek legal counsel going
18 through that process and make sure that they fully
19 understand all of the lease terms and are very comfortable
20 with them.
21 Again, mentioning what Leslie already stated.
22 But if a parcel is in the Clean and Green Program, we will
23 pay those rollback taxes in addition to the other property
24 taxes associated with the project.
25 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: All right. Thank you.
38 1 Our next question is Representative Delozier.
2 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: Thank you, Mr.
3 Chairman. Thank you for the opportunity.
4 Part of my question was asked earlier as to the
5 full authorization with the PUC regulation. And that kind
6 of rolls into my second question, which is, in the bill it
7 stipulates the fact that the PUC will ensure customer
8 participation for each customer class.
9 Obviously, they did a lot of rollouts when it
10 came to shopping and that type of thing. But at this point
11 in time without that registration or jurisdiction, the
12 benefit is solely to the developer. So the state is going
13 to be paying to advertise for the developer to expand.
14 Can you give a little bit of information as to
15 the fact of why a State agency would need to advertise for a
16 private entity?
17 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Yes. Actually, there are
18 multiple levels of people who participate in community
19 solar. So we have the developers themselves. A lot of them
20 do their subscriber acquisition in-house. But we also have
21 subscriber acquisition companies that go in and do the
22 advertising and work to find the subscribers. So that would
23 not necessarily be a burden of the PUC as much as we want to
24 make sure that the PUC has the ability to have transparency
25 into the market so customers can actually see who is
39 1 participating in the community solar program and register
2 with the state.
3 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: Right. But the bottom
4 line is still a matter of the PUC as being required to make
5 sure all classes are represented in using community solar?
6 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Correct.
7 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: So that's like a
8 mandate on the PUC to make sure that happens?
9 MS. LESLIE ELDER: It's not -- well, no, it's not
10 a mandate on the PUC from an advertising perspective. It is
11 more of a mandate from a consumer protection's perspective.
12 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: Okay.
13 MS. LESLIE ELDER: These are best practices that
14 we've seen in other states in order to ensure that the
15 customers have the confidence within the subscriber
16 acquisition companies and the developers.
17 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: And that was a concern
18 with the consumer advocate as well.
19 And one last question real quick. The actual
20 cost of -- one of the parts is dealing with low income. Do
21 you see the cost of this project and community solar being
22 less than the basic default cost?
23 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Correct. Yes.
24 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: You do?
25 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Yes.
40 1 REPRESENTATIVE DELOZIER: Okay. Thank you.
2 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: All right.
4 Our next questioner is Representative Mehaffie.
5 REPRESENTATIVE MEHAFFIE: Thank you, Mr.
6 Chairman.
7 My question going back is, we all know that solar
8 produces electricity about 25 percent of the time. What is
9 and what will facilitate if we have a year like we did a
10 couple years ago where we didn't have a whole lot of sunny
11 days and we know that we're not producing at night? What is
12 and what happens as far as meeting the demand for your solar
13 communities?
14 And on the other side of this is -- and I want to
15 get this out real quick -- this is a good bill and I'm on
16 it. But my concern is green space, too.
17 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Um-hmm.
18 REPRESENTATIVE MEHAFFIE: My concern is using
19 farmland that's not usable. I get that.
20 MS. LESLIE ELDER: Um-hmm.
21 REPRESENTATIVE MEHAFFIE: Using parking lots,
22 those types of situations is where I'd like to see more
23 solar. But at the end of the day, it's this General
24 Assembly that should be having a full comprehensive talk
25 about all energy, this kind of energy, nuclear energy, gas,
41 1 oil, coal, everything. That's what we need a comprehensive
2 plan on. And that's what this should be part of, because we
3 know that there's problems, as the Chairman said from the
4 get-go. And I know that we should be having more of these
5 discussions and reaching out and having more people here.
6 And the very last thing is, how many square acres
7 does it take per megawatt to production? Go ahead.
8 MS. LESLIE ELDER: All right. Thank you for
9 that.
10 I'm going to take your questions one by one, if I
11 may. So for the first question, what happens when the sun
12 doesn't shine or when the wind doesn't blow? There's
13 multiple different things. But I think one of the things
14 that makes community solar a really wonderful choice for
15 Pennsylvania itself is that we are not looking to replace
16 any other forms of energy generation.
17 This specifically works very well with our
18 current energy generation systems because when the sun
19 doesn't shine, these customers are still part of the
20 utilities' customer base and are still connected to the
21 grid.
22 Therefore, if the sun doesn't shine and they're
23 not producing actual energy, other energy sources like
24 natural gas can rev up and ensure that those people continue
25 to stay on and the grid is viable.
42 1 For your second question, you know, I've been
2 following you for a very long time and all of the work that
3 you've been doing on energy and I think it's incredibly
4 impressive. I will say to that end, we are making
5 investments, as I said in my testimony, to three to four
6 million dollars right now in order to secure land and other
7 resources in order to be able to get this market up and
8 running.
9 However, if this doesn't pass in 2020, the sun
10 does shine in other states. And so, as we said, there are
11 other states that have community solar programs. This is
12 really the time that we need in order to be able to get that
13 market certainty.
14 Lastly, your question was around acres. It takes
15 about six acres depending on a lot of different
16 qualifications, including conservation and setbacks and
17 fencing and so on and so forth. But on average it's about
18 six acres per megawatt.
19 REPRESENTATIVE MEHAFFIE: Thank you.
20 MR. CHAD FORCEY: And if I could add to the
21 question, Representative.
22 And I want to echo what Leslie said. I
23 appreciate your interest in a state energy plan. I agree
24 with you that that is needed. Our organization advocates
25 for all of the above. And we want renewables to be a part
43 1 of the other sources of energy that Pennsylvania is well
2 known for.
3 I believe that the community solar bill is going
4 to promote solar projects that are going to integrate well
5 into the existing grid, No. 1.
6 And No. 2, when the sun does not shine, let's
7 bear in mind that the next generation solar PV panels that
8 are being installed now actually can generate electricity
9 even on cloudy days. It's one of those things that's not
10 well known. But the technology has really increased in
11 recent years in terms of the viability of a solar system
12 even on a cloudy day, No. 1.
13 No. 2, through energy storage, we have enabled
14 solar units to be far more viable in terms of the generation
15 of electricity. So if they're generating more electricity
16 than is needed on a given day, a lot of farms right now are
17 coupling those solar installations with lithium ion
18 batteries. And what we're seeing is that they're actually
19 saving up energy for the nighttime that they're able to use.
20 I had a tour recently of a farm in Bucks County,
21 Pennsylvania, where they power their refrigeration equipment
22 to preserve horticultural crops and flowers at night using
23 the battery storage components. And without digressing, I'm
24 happy to say that our organization supports Federal
25 legislation that would incentivize even more battery storage
44 1 to be coupled with solar.
2 And then finally, as far as green space
3 preservation and land preservation is concerned, one of the
4 nice things about solar is that it's a temporary
5 installation. They're not intended to be permanent. So if
6 a farmer has a fallow field, for instance, he or she could
7 certainly put solar on that field. And then if they decided
8 that they needed to plant on that field, it's easily
9 removed, No. 1.
10 And No. 2, there's those crops that we've talked
11 about like soybeans, pollinator friendly crops, and a number
12 of others that can coexist and actually be grown underneath
13 solar panels.
14 So we are really excited about the opportunities
15 here and the promise of this legislation to help our farms.
16 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Just to kind of put
17 things in perspective. Currently about one-half of 1
18 percent of all electricity in Pennsylvania is from solar.
19 So questions about what if the sun is not shining, you know,
20 99.5 percent is from other sources.
21 And then also just to put things in perspective,
22 a typical natural gas power plant might be, you know, 500
23 megawatts. So the comparable land for solar would be about
24 3,000 acres to produce the electric. And, you know, some
25 power plants generate 1,000 megawatts. So it's just to kind
45 1 of keep things in perspective.
2 But our next questioner is going to be
3 Representative Pickett.
4 REPRESENTATIVE PICKETT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 I know we're on a time bind.
6 I was interested in the Clean and Green issue
7 also. And I believe for the gas industry, natural gas
8 industry, we actually had to legislatively carve out that
9 commercial use of that property and make sure that the
10 property tax picture changed. So that was of interest to me
11 also.
12 I am just wondering quickly, where do our rural
13 electric companies stand on this?
14 MS. LESLIE ELDER: So conversations with the
15 electrics have happened. I know that the rural electrics
16 are moving in a direction of trying to diversify their
17 energy generation. I cannot speak to where they actually
18 are on the community solar bill, although Representative
19 Kaufer may have a greater update on that.
20 REPRESENTATIVE PICKETT: Thank you.
21 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Okay.
22 That's the last question.
23 Just for the record, I usually alternate between
24 Republican members and Democrat members asking questions.
25 We didn't have a lot of democratic questions today.
46 1 We are going to be having a future hearing on
2 Representative Mizgorski's legislation, House Bill 1970,
3 which also deals with solar energy. So that announcement
4 will be coming at a future day.
5 I would like to thank all the members and all the
6 testifiers who came today. And any of the members -- we're
7 always happy to talk about this issue as well as any others.
8 I would like to commend Representative Kaufer for
9 working really hard on this issue. And probably the main
10 thing that most of us can relate to in this legislation is
11 how it would help our farmers. Some farmer might be
12 thinking about closing the farm, but they can lease some of
13 their land and this keeps the farm open, preserves our food
14 supply. You know, that is a good thing obviously.
15 And all legislation gets amended along the way.
16 Usually what happens is legislation gets amended to the
17 point of where there's enough support for it to pass. If it
18 doesn't get amended, it doesn't pass. That's usually just
19 how it works.
20 Representative Schweyer and/or Chairman Matzie,
21 would you have any closing comments that you would like to
22 make?
23 REPRESENTATIVE SCHWEYER: No, sir.
24 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Chairman Matzie?
25 MINORITY CHAIRMAN MATZIE: No.
47 1 Thank you again for having the hearing. I
2 jokingly texted my good friend from Dauphin, Representative
3 Mehaffie, for using my line that both he and I have used
4 many times over the course of this session more for an all
5 energy policy discussion and this just falls right in line
6 with it. So I appreciate the opportunity.
7 I look forward to future discussions.
8 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: All right. Thank you.
9 Representative Kaufer, any final comments that
10 last about a minute or less?
11 REPRESENTATIVE KAUFER: I'll waive off.
12 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN ROAE: Okay. He waives off.
13 Well, thank you, everybody. We are up on the
14 Floor in a couple minutes. This hearing is now adjourned.
15 Thank you.
16 (Whereupon, the hearing concluded.)
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48 1 I hereby certify that the proceedings and
2 evidence are contained fully and accurately in the notes
3 taken by me on the within proceedings and that this is a
4 correct transcript of the same.
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8 Jean M. Davis 9 Notary Public
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