3369

OIC-302 (Re\ 5-19-94)

, - I -

OFFICE OFTHJZ INDEPENDENTCOUMEL

Date of uanscription l/26/98

On below date, investigators interviewed ASHLEY L. RAINES. Also present at the Law Office of Shea and Gardner, 1800 Massachusetts Avenue, N-W., Washington, D.C. 20036, were RAINES' attorneys, WENDY WHITE and HOWARD RUBIN. RAINES provided the following:

RAINES currently resides at _I_, hone number \m Her date of birth is - social security number U-b; place of birth, Little Rock, Arkansas. She is currently employed at the White House as the Director of Office of Policy Development Operations and Special Liaison to Management and Administration, Old Executive Office Building #145, office phone j_. RAINES graduated from Southern Methodist University in September, 1993.

RAINES advised that she met MONICA LEWINSKY in November, 1995. They have become close friends. During the Summer of 1996, LEWINSKY told RAINES that she had been engaged in a sexual relationship with the President. LEWINSKY advised RAINES that the President would call her at the White House office or home and ask her to come and see him. LEWINSKY would meet the President in the Oval Office. They would go into the study off the Oval Office, and at times would kiss and engage in reciprocal oral sex.

At the time LEWINSKY first spoke with RAINES about this (Summer, 19961, the relationship with the President had.stopped, and LEWINSKY had changed jobs and worked at t8e Pentagon. LEWINSKY was unhappy and frustrated that she hadn't heard from the President in over one month.

LEWINSKY later told RAINES that the President had called LEWINSKY, and for a period of time telephone calls were the extent of their relationship. However, in early 1997, LEWINSKY again went to see the President at the Oval Office. LEWINSKY stated from early 1997 through about late December 1997, her relationship with the President resumed. This included, on occasion, reciprocal oral sex. LEWINSKY told RAINES that the President's secretary, BETTY CURRIE, would "clear" her through, and that her visits in 1997 were infrequent.

Invcstigatlon on l/25/98 at Washington, D.C. File Y 29D-LR-35063

Date dktatcd l/26/98 3370

OIC-302~1 (Rev. 8-19-94)

29D-LR-35063

Continuation of OIC-302 of Ashley L. Raines .On l-/25/98 . page 2

RAINES advised that LEWINSKY showed her gifts that came from the President. These included: a hat pin approximately eight inches long, an antique looking brooch the size of a half dollar, special edition copy of "Leaves of Grass" by WALT WHITMAN, items from Martha's Vineyard with "Black Dog" logo, including a ball cap, and a short, baggy summer dress, and an autographed photo of the two of them wishing LEWINSKY "Happy Birthday." RAINES believed that LEWINSKY had given him two neckties, described as nice dress ties-that RAINES believed she saw the President wear on one occasion. LBWINSKY also told RAINES that LEWINSKY gave him a couple of books.

RAINES advised that LEWINSKY told her she had been subpoenaed for a deposition by PAULA JONES' attorneys. LEWINSKY was concerned with what to say. LEWINSKY felt she had done nothing illegal, but if she denied having had sex with the President, would this be perjury. LEWINSKY advised RAINES that she had contacted VERNON JORDAN and JORDAN had referred a lawyer to LEWINSKY. RAINES was never told of or shown the affidavit LEWINSKY and her attorney provided to JONES‘ attorneys. At that time, LEWINSKY told RAINES she had not spoken to the President about the affidavit.

Sometime around the middle of 1997, LEWINSKY told RAINES that she wanted to leave D.C. LEWINSKY asked the President for help. VERNON JORDAN put her in contact with Revlon and Bersa &. Marcella (phonetic) in New York as well as a couple of other firms. RAINES didn't know how JORDAN got involved in this job hunt. P Rained advised that her last contact with LEWINSKY was a phone call on Tuesday, January 20, 1998. LEWINSKY asked RAINES to speak to her lawyer BILL GINSBERG. GINSBERG asked RAINES to refer all of her calls concerning LEWINSKY to his law firm. GINSBERG also stated "be careful." RAINES didn't understand what GINSBERG was referring to.

RAINES was aware of LEWINSKY's friendship with LINDA TRIPP. LEWINSKY told RAINES she had confided in TRIPP concerning her relationship with the President. RAINES also believed LEWINSKY had also shared that information with LEWINSKY's mother and an aunt. OK-302a (Rev. 8-19-94)

3371

29D-LR-35063

Continuation of OIC-302 of Ashley L. Raines .On l/25/98 . Page 3 RAINES stated that LEWINSKY had been a very loyal and supportive friend. RAINES found LEWINSKY to be truthful and had no reason not to believe LEWINSKY concerning LEWINSKY's relationship with the President. 3372 3373

Ashley Raines, l/29/98

Grand Jury

Page 2 to Page 117

CONDENSED TRANSCRIPT AND CONCORDANCE PREPARED BY: OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL 1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Suite 490-North Washington, DC 20004 Phone: 202-514-8688 FAX: 202-5 14-8802 3374

BSA Ashley Raines. K!gigB XMAX(1)

Page 2 Page 5 111 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 0 If you have retained counsel. you cannot have the FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA counsel in the Grand Ju room wrth you. but the Grand Jurors f!_’ “_“______X ! will permit you a reasona le% opportunity to step outside the : Grand Jury room to consult with your counsel if you so 13: E -desrre. Do you understand that? IN RE: A- Yes. 14GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS : Q And I understand you are represented by counsel I here today;rs that correct? is;’ 2‘ A Yes. _- Q And who would that be? .-- A Wendv White. [IT: Q And do you know what firm she is with? il:: A Shea and Gardner. i ii j Grand Jurors themselves,

Page 3 Page 6 t11 :: Icant’ go blabbin about it. Do you understand? ASHLEY RAINES .-,-1‘ A #es. I:iwas caked as a witness end having been first duty Sworn b i3; Q There are other exceptions. For instance, if - . ,a 1 the Foreperson of the Grand Jury, was examined and test if-yred ; 4 : Im’ not at all saying this will happen, but if there was ever tslas follows: r5:atriallaterofany~and~puappearedasawrtness.and 161 EXAMINATION : 6 1 you sard something a that nal that was drfferent than what I71 BY MR. WlSENBERG: ou said at the Grand Jury, that would be an example where Q Good morning. would you state your name for the wo;e”,”‘ breached. Do you understand that? l~lrecord olease. Q There are certain things that office of Independent li f i Counsel that are peculiar to the Office of lnde ndent r:IiCounsel that its’ - at I+ one,instance will a R”ow. wrth ;;f;z=yper court order, m certain occasrons the rule of would be - could be breached. That would be another [ ~5 jexamp% p y;~;nderstand that? I:61 0 The -but other than these exceptions, if is a i : : i rneral rule we are att bound by that oath of secrecy. I I 91 owever. you are not_ A witness who appears before the Grand ;;;;J~ IS not bound by an oath of secrecy. Do you understand 7.3 i22j A Yes. Q You can go talk about what transpires here today oc If :inot. Thars a matter for you and your attorney to tak I251 rzs~about. Do you understand?

3 Page 4 Page 7 t I Ifederal law other than a Class B or Class C misdemeanor or [II A Yes. 12 1 infraction in dealing with witnesses, potential wr&sse s, Q You can7 tie to us. You cant’ i rjury is. in a I 3 I attomevs or others conceminq the avil case Jones v. 13’ i nutshell not - intentionalty not telling the tnrth a&a i 4 j Clinton? I 4 I material matter an important manner in front of the Grand 151 Dii ou understand what I just read? 15 1 Jury. Do you unPerstand that? [61 x Sure. Yes. - I61 A Yes. (71 Q And the authority of the Grand Jury as Ive’ read it Q If there k anything I ask or Ms. Wirth asks that [alto you? ieiyou’ dont’ understand by all means ask us to re-ask that [91 A Yes. tslquestion. Do you understand? Cl Im’ now going to be reading to you, discussing with I101 A Okay. Yes. I:!; ou briefly what are known as rights and responsibiliiis of Q Again, tf there is anything anytime that ou need [I 2 1 &rand Jury witnesses. Occasionall I11 ask you if you I :i i to consult with our attorney, you are free to do that. x 113 1 understand and that will require tharyou say either yes or (13) ou are uncom 1ortabk and you want to take a brief break, 114 ]no so that the court re orter can pick it up rather than a 114 I rhats’ fine too. [ I 5 1 nod or uh-ph oSru$uR II51 A Okay. I161 Q Lets’ sea. The - there arts certain &ago&s of Q Okay. You have every - you have a privilege i i7” i witnesses who come before the Grand Jury, and let ma give you i :i ; against self-incrimination which means you may refuse to t 1 s I the definition of a target fmm the Department of Justica t191answer andy.question if a truthful answer to that question t 191 manual. The target ts defined as a person to whom the ,20 1 would ten to mcnmmate you. Do you understand that? t201 rosecutor or the Grand Jury has substantial evidence linking i2li A Yes. . - t2ll~imgorhertothe comm&siin of a crime and who, in the (221 Q Anything you sa may be used against you by the 122 : jud ement of the prosecutor is a putative defendant. Do you t23lGrand Jury or in a subsequent Lgal proceeding. Do you 1231un erstan~tha\~finibon? ~24 lunderstand that? 1241 I251 A Yes. I251 0 You are not a target. A subject is defined as a .

OlCStarr Page 2 to Page 7 3375

BY, Ashley Raines,-~~___ 1129198 Xuu1(2) Page 8 Page 11 (1 lperson whose conduct is wlthm the scope of the Grand Jurys’ ;: ~Admimstrat~on. 12 1 Investigation. Do you understand that? [:: Q And what is your title there7 13: $ $z;!dd[ou repeat that again. A Its’ a long title. Its’ Director of office of subject IS defined as “a person whose ! ii Policy Development Operations - I_. 1: i conduct IS wlthin the scope of the Grand Jurys’ .3. Q _Okaanyd _And - f 6 j Investigation.” i6 A ji] A Okay. i-1 Q Im’ sorry :9’ Q Do YOU understand that? iJ) A and Special Liaison to Management and i9j A Yes: rj-. s: Administration.- 0 As you can tell. that is a very broad definition. [lOI Q And essentially what are your duties In that job? 1 :yi Its’ not like you think of a subject on a police t.v. show A I manage a budget for the office of Policy rl2lnecessarily. Subject is basically anyone whose got i :: 1 Development, which is made up of the Domestic Policy Council [13linformation relevant to the Grand Jury. Do you understand 1131 and the National Economic Council. I manage their daily [14lthat? I (14 loperations and also work on s I151 A Yes. I151 COURT REPORTE~Ca?~~)%%e’ up, please. 0 So you are - in the technical Department of (161 THE WITNESS: Oh, Im’ not oud enough? I :7”; Justice definition, you are a subject. Do you understand MR. WISENBERG: Ive’ been asked if you can talk a [lslthat? i :i; little bit louder. Cl91 THE WITNESS: Okay. Sony. Should I repeat that? [201 BY MS. WIRTH: [211 Q Yeah. Go ahead. A I manage a budget for the Office of Policy 1:: 1 Development which is comprised of the Domestic Policy Council [24 land the National Economic Council. And I also work on I 2 5 1 speclal projects as they come up in my office, the office of

Page 9 Page 12 [ 1 Iconcern. And a witness just being sqmebgy coming in no [zlsuspicion on them at all,, just comln.I. in to grve testrmopy. (3100 you understand that mformal drs inctlon between wrtness. ou held your current job? ;;;subject an: arg$;.‘ The whrte House for four Q Wrthin that distinction within that system you are I76ia witness. Do ou understand that? [El A {es. Q Now we cannot romise an body, witness or subject i 9 j months ago. [{zithat they will never be a target. g o yoy?d em;nd that,? I101 Q A Yes. We dont’ know an hrng about you and‘ we - r111 A I :: i you never know how a investigation wi develo So were’ ii;jAdministration. _ [13lnot in a position to tell anyone who appears be ore us as a Q And did your job responsibilities change when your [ 14 Igeneral matter that you will never be target. Do you i::ititle changed? [ I 5 1 understand that? A Theyve’ - Ive’ always had kind of the same I161 A Yes. [ :z: responsibilities. Things have been added and taken away as Q Okay. Finally, you were here today pursuant to a ~17~supervisors and managers come in. I:i;subpoena;is that correct? Q Soyouvedoneessentiallythesame~&~rk I191 A Yes. i:i!for the four and some odd years that youve been at I201 Q Have you brought_ any- documents pursuant to that [2olHouse? i21jsubpoena? A Well no. I mean theggqe.titint I221 A M lawyer turned them over I believe on Tuesday. [::;example the fund &ana er the bu Q Okay. So all the documents pursuant to the r231gel until kovember of9!?’ But since i::&ubpoena have been turned oyer, correct? Q And when you first came to The Whi@ House, what 1251 A Except for documents on my work computer at The i::lwas your job?

+ Page 10 Page 13 f 11 White House in which those are. I guess, going through that A WbenIfintcameIwasanintemfmmMayof93 rzlprocess. ~:&rough the time I was hired in September of 93.‘ I31 0 Okay. Thats’ till ongoing? I31 Q And after ou were an intern what dii you do? I41 A Yes.. A I was hind in the Office of Administrabon under Q I believe there is some kind of redaction going on !:&hat was called the Customer Service Bureau. And I was !ztifvou know? 161 someone who looked after the needs of the staff of the i7j - A Im’ not sure. 17 1 complex and was sOmeone that the staff could come to if they Q Oka Well ma well’ have a conversation with [e] had questions. How do I get m trash idted up? How do I - /:!your lawyer about t at. Allri’ h _ I think weve’ got those rglwho do I call to et this service? That &nd of thing. [I o 1 documents that were’ hande8mcand later on well’ be going Cl &at building or buildings have yqu worked in in L 111 through them. I:iiThe White House? i121 - A Okay. t121 A The Old Executive Office Building. [I31 0 Is there anything about your rights and 1131 Q Steadilv since 1993? nsibilities as Ive’ read them to you that you dont’ il4j A Uh-huh: Yes. I::;Eerstand?’ s” I151 Q And how did you come to be an intern at The White I161 A I dont’ think so. [ 16]HOUse? I171 Q All right. then. 1U’ turn you over to my ~~lcolleague.Ms. W&h. I191 BY MS. WlRTH: 1201 Q Ms. Raines. can you tell us how old you are? I211 .--,r22i A0 TwenX-six.And w ere were YOU born? 1231 A Atlanta, Georgia.- ~241 Q And what is your resent occu ation? I251 A I work in The WhR’ e Office ofhp anagement and

/ Page8toPagej3 ~~_--__-~ OlCStarr BSA XMAX(3) ---______Page 44 Page 17 ;;: Q Had ou ever met the President or Mrs. Clinton Q Can you tell the Grand Juf&&~;~et~;~~ know : 7 1 before the[resldentywas elected In 1992? ii 1 about Monicas’ work experience at The :3i Yes, only two - a couple of times that I remember [ 3 1 Intern7 Youve’ already mentioned you know who she worked 1 4 !when he was Governor. f 4 1 for. But how Ion was she an intern? What types of things Q Now. can you just tell the Grand Jury for the [ sldid she do? AnFhlng that you know about that expenence. : 2 j record where the Old Executive Office Buildtng ts In relation A I really dont’ know that much about her working as : -! to The White House and whether the re‘ connected. /t ian intern. I think she started In the summer of 95.‘ And 2‘ ’ A The Old Executive 0f+ICC? Bullding is on the corner [ 8 1 then she had graduated from college so she was looking for a i;iof 17th Street and Pennsylvania. And its’ not actually [ sljob and Tracey was tryin to hel her, you know, find a lob. i :s!connected to The White House, it sits right next door. Its’ 1101 Q Outside l%e Whip; House? f : ; i separated by what we call West Execubve Avenue. So theres’ Ill1 A I think within. Ma be outside too, Im’ not sure. [ 12 !a street that runs in between The White House and the Old Q And did she even ually get a job at The White [ : 3 1 Executive Office Buiklin and its’ all within the gates of [ :: i House? [ 11 IThe White House camp Pex. I141 A Yes, she did. [>5j Q And what floor do you work on? (151 Q And what job was that? 1161 A The first floor. [I61 A She was in Legislative Affairs - the office of Q Okay. Now, did there come a time that you met [ I 7 1 Legislative Affairs for The Whde House. ! :i i Monica Lewinsk ? Q And do you know whether that was with Traceys’ [I91 A &s. ~:~~assistanc.e that she got that job? ,701 Q The first time. And can vou tell the Grand JUIV I201 A Probably with a recommendation I assume. i 5; i when that was? 0 And which area did she work in when she was workin A I believe that it was in November of 95.‘ We had a i::;for the Office of Legislative Affairs? We can call it OLA. /::ibirthday party for her supervisor. I231 A Correspondence. _ ~241 Q And who was her surrvisqr? I241 _ I251 A Her name IS Tracey obow~ck. And Tracey used to [251 2 %%a~$$ %%hite House.

Page 15 Page 18

[ 1 Iactually work in our office. and we still had, you know, a Ill Q And who was her supervisor there? 12 1 relationshi with her so we had a pa I21 A I think I remember her name was Jocelyn Jolley. 131 6 At the Old Executive %%kIing? [31 AQ ltJ;O;yh~yoyt hefl i4i A Uh-huh. Yes. 141 Q And what was Monicas’ role and job at that time in 0 Now, on what floor of the East Wing did Monica I z i The White House? I;;work? A I think she was still her intern. but Im’ not I71 A The first floor. !i 1 positive that she was an intern at that point. Q Oka Now did there come a time when Monica ;9, Q And do vou know what her duties were as an intern. i i;stopped workin at +he Wtiite House, when she left? .-, I ( I o 1 Monicas?’ ~- 1101 A ?es. A Just in knowing what Tracey did, Tracey as the Ill1 Q Do you know when that was? iii i Director of the Chief of Staffs correspondence and would [I21 A Spnng of 96.‘ I dont’ remember the exact month. ~131 respond to any ietters that the Chief of Staff received, and Q Oka . Let me just take ou back for a second. Do 1 I I ! Monica assisted her in that capa i::;you remember rougY,ly when she went ro OLA? Q Okay. And do youc?. now where Monica physically A Office of Legislative Affairs? I think it was j:z;worked. where her work station was? ~:~~December. A I never saw her there but Trace s Intern [I71 Q Of? iii i workstation was on the ground floor bf the Old l&cutive 1181 A Of95’ Im’ not positiie. rlglOffice Building. 1191 Q Okay. And then she left in the spring of 967‘ l201.. _ Q Do you know whether she also worked at The White [201 A Yes. [ 2 I 1 House? Q So b the time Monica had left The White House, you (221 A What do ou - The White House building? i::ihad been friends wi& her for lesJ than a year? I231 Q In The v\Xlite House building, yeah. 1231 A Oh,yes. 1241 Aa E.n she was an intern? Q And how would you describe your relationship with [251 I::lher at that point?

Page 16 Page 19 No, I dont’ think so.. 111 A At that point we were friends. And Trace! Bobow~cks’ oftice was atso in Ok! Q Would you consider her a close friend at that i Z i point? I~l[41was’ at Th;m;;;;ucy No. 1 don? mink.=. IS1 MR. WtSENBERG: Can I butt in? Q !-low o en dK1 you see her dunng the time that she 161 MS. WlRTH: Sure. I71 BY MR. WlSENBERG: A It was a long time ago. I would say maybe once a Q You wouldnt’ happen to know how to spell Bobowick. ii;week or every two weeks. ; ii would you? 191 [lOI A Oh, absolutely. 1101 AQ IzK?A sitive. 1111 0 Could YOU spell it for me? Q Since sR”e left The WhiteHous&’ has your iizi A B-o-b&w-i-&. I :: i relationshi deykwwfurther - I131 Q Thanks. I131 1 - [141 A She was not Bobowick at the time. She was married. 1141 - interms’ of closeness? 1151 BY MS. WtRTH: I151 AQ Sure. Yes. [I61 Q What was her name then? Q And how would you describe your relationship with I171 A It was Beckett at the time. ::76iher now? Q Now you said that you met Monica at this party. 1181 A I wouM consider her a close friend. f :“,i Dii vou eventuallv establish a friendship with her? Q Now, do you know why Monica left The White House iioi - A Yei. Idid. i:iiwhen she left her employment at The White House? I211 Q And how quick1 did that take lace? A She told me that the told her it was because they A Isawheratas~ffholidaypa&inTheWhite i::;were getting a new director of the oLce, and he wanted to i:SiHouse that they usually have every year, and we would do 1231 bripg in his own person to do correspondence. They were [24 lthings from time to time, go to dinner, go to a movie, those [24]going to take the two positions that were currentty there, [ 2 5 1 types of things. tzslmake it one position and just reorganize the office. I dont’ ’

OIC-Starr Page 14 to Page 19 3377

as.4 Ashley Raines, 1129198 XMAXIII

Page 20 Page 23 [ 11 think they were very happy with her supervrsor and her ill A I dont’ rer?ember that it was her specifically. As [z ]worklng condrhons and envrronment or, I mean, what she was i 2 ! issues come up, the offtce talks about things. And whether [ 3 1 doing so i 3 I It was my boss who came In and told her or - I cant’ imagine (41 0 So did Ms. Jolley leave as well7 I 4. they would have had a rxnversatron like that in our general (51 A Yes, she did. : 5 1 offce. but my assum ttcn from heanng whatever conversations 0 Do you have any knowledge or information from I 6 1 took place was that tI!ose were the people. 1 ;iMonica or elsewhere about whose decision it was that Monica :7! Q Would rt x fair to characterize that as office i 8 1 and Jocelyn leave? [ 8 lscuddlebut? In other WCXS. you didnt’ - as opposed to - A Well several things. In my office, we have The [ 9; office talk about why she sft as opposed to you didnt’ get a ii ,i‘ White House personnel liarson and we deal a lot with the [ i o; sheet of piper - [ 1 I 1 personnel issues. So I hear thin s goin on in that capacity cl:1 Thats’ exactly right.. [ 12 1 and also from Monica. So from &onica? heard Tim Keating. 1121 Q - that sad where YOU know who was resoonsible for (13lwho was the kind of - I dont’ know that he was called the il3jthe - 114 ]Chief of Staff, but he was kind of in that role, he oversaw I141 A And I wasnt’ involved in any of the conversation to 115 1 the operations of Le islative Affairs. And then from my rlsithat. [~6loffice. what I would 8ear IS that Evelyn Lreberman. Tan Q So off - rn terms of this office talk you had and I dont’ know if there were others. Thats’ I :7”1 heard that it was Evelyn LRberman and Tim Keating; is that ~~i~~r$&~ly people that I remember-the only names rlelcorrect? [191 A Yes. Q So Evelyn and Tim Keating - Evelyn Liebeman and Q Was there any office talk at the time about why I:i;Tirn - I:; IEvelyn Lieberman or anybody else wanted Monica transferred? 1221 A Yes. [221 A Yes. there was. I231 Q Im’ sorry - Tim Keating - 1231 Q And what was that? [241 A From what I heard it sounded as if Eve n had [251 Aa R-R ht.ad some role in the decision to eliminate i::inoti&d Monica spending a large amount of her time inr‘ he

Page 21 Page 24 t 11 Monica and Jocelyn from OlA? 121 A Well, I dont’ know if Evelyn was involved in t31elrmrnating Jocelyn also. I wouM assume that, but I dont’ t4lknow. THE FOREPERSON: Excuse me. You still need to [65;speak up a little bit. I71 THE WITNESS: Okay. Imsorry.’ l8l BY MS. WIRTH: Q Now when Monica left the Office of Legislative 1 :z;Affairs do you know what happened to her after that, where A I think ~~~~~~~~$~~h~~~~~~d~~s [ 1 I 1 she went to work? I :!; awestruok with the Pres [ 12 1 the fact that she was comin over frequently to the West fi31Wrng. Maybe she would wa k by as he was walking out or I 14 lsomething of that nature. Q An hing e!se you can remember in terms of office i:zltalk in addition to l?angrng out at the West Wing, being a I dont’ believe so. I 17 I little awestruck? Did you ever hear that she worked briefty for Patsy A Just that they used - she had probably used the ilqjThomasson? _ i : i i word inappropriate as her behavior. 1201 A No. I201 I211 Q Do YOU know when she ended up working at the 1211 2 %% those circumstances that I had iust ii2 j Pentagon zugh 1231 Xrememberhspringof96.’ - j talk about inapprop&Mness in terms 1241 Q okay. And did you keep in touch with her when she / [251was at the Pentagon? I hat I - not that I heard, no.

&C Page 22 / Page 25

111 A Yes. Q It was more behavior, and the behavior that youve’ 121 Q And phone calls back and forth and so on? I: lldescribed to us? 131 A Yes. [31 A Right. Right. I41 Q And did you continue to see her on a social basis? 1 I41 Q No one said anything about her - you didnt’ hear IS1 A Yes. ISI any office talk about her typing being bad or anything like Q And can you tell us whether she was happy on that [sIthat? 176ijob? 171 A No, not that I remember. Uh-uh. A I - throughout the whole 0 You didnl hear any office talk about her being a i:;enjoyed the job. It was somethin fiithreat -a &Jh sioal threat to the President, did you? [lOI Q Do you know wha I101 BINHAK One more question. _ A She was the confidential assistant to Ken Bacon, j Ill1 BY MR. BINHAK: i :: i the Penta on spokesman and assisted him in secretarial type 1121 Q Dii you hear any office talk that she was not doing [ 13lduties. S4e would also go on trips that the Secretary of ;;;;herjob corct)((?b. No, ’ 1111 Defense would go in which the press would attend and she / r 15 1 would transcribe an interviews that Cohen would have. I I151 BY MS. WtRTH: 1161 BY MR. V&SENBERG: i16j Q Now about the time that Monica was I guess taken Q The - you mentioned that Monica thought it was lit i [ 17 lout of the Office of Legislative Affairs - when you heard i :i; Keatin who made the decision to transfer her but that tlelthese things about, you know, Monica being awestruck with the [ 191 throug a The White House personnel liaison, whioh was near I I I 91 President or, you know, frequently han kg around the West tzolwhere you were located - tzo]Win and so on, were you aware of tha9 yoursetfeither from rz11 A She sits next to me. I 211 anyt4. ing h&at y$03aw or anythrng that she told you? I221 0 Who would that be who sits next to you? 1221 1231 A Kel McClure. Q rring thzzTnf tz;E ;t; fi;Erking at Q AnilKelly McClure, was she the ona who told you iZ;the Office of Le islative I:: i that k was Tim Keating and Evelyn Liiberman? tss]friendship. did s e speak to you about the Prestdent?

___. --. ___~. ~___ Page 20 to Page 25 OlCStarT 3378

Ashley Raines, l/29/98 ___-___ _. .~ -_L__ 1-1-1 Page 26 Page 29 !:I Have you met her brother? :I?! AQ Yes. !3! Has she met your mother? :4: AQ Yes. !5; Have your mothers met? :6! A0 On one occasion, yes. Q Now. did there come a time when Monica dtscussed ii i with you th: na+u;z. of her relationship with the President? I91 [IO! Q And can you tell us when that oocurred? A I remember that it was in the summer of 96.‘ I iii 1 dont’ remember the exact month. Q And do you remember where ou were when that i::iconversation took place? Was it on the teiepr;one? In rlslperson? !I61 A tt was in person. [171 Q Do you remember where you were? A When she was telling me about it. we were in my I181__^^_ ,lY,LUl. I201 Q An4d what did she tell you? j211 A She ? totd me that he would call her. that she would (221 oseehiminhis-- in the office in his study area, and you (231.iinow, that they WCWH _.___ talk. She was kind of rela ing [ 2 4 1 Incidents over the pentd of their relationship as I had r251ooourred to that point.

Page 27 Page 30 L11 Q Go to the mall with her? 0 Was she talking about things that ooourred when she [2l A Yes. I: iwas worki;g atytr White House? [31 Q Go topartiiswith her? I31 141 A On occasion. Q And did she tell you anythin about the nature of [51 Q Do ou know anybody named Kevin Moran? i:;any ph ical relationship between her and SIe President I61 A YeKa [6lduring &?at cwersation? 171 Q Have you ever gone to a party with her at Kevins’ j71 A Yes, she did. iejhouse? !81 Q Whatdid she tell ou? A Oh yes. Did she go with me to that party? I A She told me that tzey would kii and that they rl(z!dont’ - aduallv. no. I dont’ remember she was at that jliiwould have oral sex. ifiipartywith me.. Q When she told you this, were you surprised to hear 1121 Q But you went to a pa at his house? I::;that? 1131 A I did, but I dont’ thrnk?l s e was there. i13; A Yes. I141 0 Okay. Do you remember - Q When she told you this, what was her demeanor at I151 A I cant’ be sure. I cant’ remember. I dont’ think i ::; that time? Was she telling you, you know, in a upset manner i161so- [ 16]COfICetned manner, excited manner, happy? I mean, how v&rid ,171 0 Okay. Do you have a friend named Helen? [171you describe her demeanor? i;ei A Helen. yes: j191 0 And isshesomeone Monica knew? I201 A I think they probably met a couple of times. I211 Q And do you have a friend named Lisa? 1221 A Lisa, yes. I231 Q Whos’ Lisa? I241 A Shes’ my roommate. t2s1 Q And she s someone Monica knew as welt?

Page 28 Page 31 111 A Yes. I1’ 0 Have you been to eech others’ homes? 131 A Yes. I41 Q So youve’ been to Monicas’ apartment? 151 A Yes. Q Dg;;l;i;zym ~~~~hyourxrssession that lflyou took or anyb 181 A No, do not. 0 At the time that you started to hear, you know the t:~~offk~ talk about wh Monica was asked to leave the office of [ 11 jLegrstatiie Affairs, tr,e business about, you know, being 112 jawestruck and hanging around the West Wrn$ too frequently and .--, [ 13 iso on. did ou share any of that wtth Monloa . ,111 I would not have. That was in my offtcial L-.1 x No. r151capacity. [16] Q Did you ever tell her that, that talk? A I cant’ imagine that I would have. I dont’ i :: ! remember having a conversation. lm’ pretty - I keep my j1sjoffiual and personal business separate. I201 Q Have ou ever met anybody in Monicas’ family? Ill’ A Yes, I Kave. [--‘ I‘ Q Have you met her mother? I231 A Yes. 1241 0 Have you met her dad? I251 A Yes. t)lCStarr Page 26 to Page 31 3379

Ashley Raines, 1129198 BSA __~ ~ XW6) Page 32 Page 35

[ll 0 And did she tell ou how she fett about that? Q So its’ not even necessarily that there was a 12; A I think she was f!u strated iiicomplete break In communrcation between them; is that Q Did she tell you whether she had made any attempts [ 3 1 correct7 ii j at that point to et in touch with the Prestdent? I41 ; Jo”; long periods of time between communicat:on. [51 A 80. I dont’ think so. I dont’ know how she would I51 [sthave. 151’ MR. BINAAK: Ca{ul$k a couple of questions? Q Did she tell ou - and you may have already 171 THE WITNESS- jilanswered this - did she tel 7you where their relahonship iai BY MR. BINHAK: t 9 i took place? Q First, you tned to describe a little bit about A She told me in the study. which I off of his [ :iiMonica was behavrng when she told you this information in the ;:;;0fhX. 1111 car. Can you just ive the Grand Jury as best you can just (121 0 Have ou been in the Oval Office yourself? [12) tell them what she9old you In the car. and as best you can 1131 A Yes, I Kave. [ 13 1 remember the words that she used. [I41 0 And have you ever been in the study? 1141 A The words that she used? t151 A No. Q Yeah, just try to recount the conversation that you 1161 Q What isrur understandin of the nature of the I:zihad with her. [ i7 1 study area? How woul you descnbe tha8- a terms of publrc A She would rela - she, you know, started off by r1slaccess? I :z;tellin me it happened when sze was an intern working in the 1191 A I dont’ think there is any public access. (191 Chte.9of Staffs office during the furtou h - the ovemment Q Is that a room that you would describe as private t2o~furlou h. She would talk to him when3, e woul 8come down to $i;to the President? (2 11 the Ct?ref of Staffs office to check on the status of how the I221 A Yes. 122 1 negotiations were going. She would tell me of the - she Q Dii Monica indicate to you at what time of day her t23jkind of laid out the sequence of events and, you know, this 1:: i relationshi with the President took place? 124 ]was on a Tuesda for exam le. and then on the next da he t251 I When she worked there, I think she told me it was tzslsaid tRis or I sawtim here. &td then a couple of days layer

Page 33 Page 36 11 Ion weekends, and afternoon or evening I dont’ really know. t1 lshe had to deliver something to the West Wrng,.and she walked I21 Q Do ou remember her saying weekend? (21 b the office and he was comin out, and he sard “Hi, I31 A Uh- t;uh. Yes. ~31 hx.ontca.” It was those kinds of ph.ings that she was krnd of [II Q Do you remember her saying evening as well? 14 jgoin through telling me as she remembered any interaction (51 A No. No. tsjwith%m. Q Okay. Did she give ou any indication of how often Q So at least at the beginnin of the conversation 176ishe had had physical relations wtthr he President up to that /76ishe began b describing how she met witii him, and then this -’ [ 8 1 point? i 8 I- at least at xe time the specific instances that led to a A I dont’ remember the frequency because, again, she fstmore gradrl e;y&yn of the relatronshtp. t:z;was telling me - kind of recalling events of previous 1101 Q lsqhat correct? I1.-1 I I t historv. so I dont’ reallv have a concept of how frequent it [III tlztwas. *. A Basically any interaction that they had, whether it I131 Q When she told you this, did you believe her7 i::{was just a Hi‘ ” or she saw him do this or yeah. A It was a lot of information at one time. I had no Q So its’ not like she told you just at one oint I i ::i reason not to believe her, so I just of listened. I::! had this particular intimate relationship with the Presir!ent, [IsI Cl Did ou give her any advice? [ 161 she gave you a series of events that actually led to that? 1171 A No. rdidnt’ reallv know what kind of advice to 1171 A Right. Right. i ;i igive in that situation. Q Now so ou said that she met him when she was Q Now did there come a time when ou learned from t : ii working in the Chief of Btafts’ office. Do you remember who I&?iMonica that the relaiionship between her and the b resident. .--.rzorthe Chref of Staff was at that time? t21jhad resumed in an way? f211 A Leon Panetta. A Wex foralongperiodoftirne erlguesslong Q Oka . And Leon Panetta, did he work in the West i::ispans of time would go buy where she woudnt’ hear from htm IZiWing of The White ztouse? [24]on the phone, you know, weeks, six. maybe even a ceupk? of 1241 A Yes. tzslmonths. And she didnt’ see him for a very bng period of (251 Q Did he work near where the President was.

-” Page 34 Page 37 [ 11 time except for if she went to an event he was speaking at or (11 A Yeah, down the hallwa tzjsomethin of that nature. But she diint’ actually o see him Q So was it conceivable r;at she wduld meet the r3rfor a verv%no wried of time. Afterthe time she Pold me. IiiPresident at the time she was working in Leon Panettas’ i ; i it was basically ust’ ‘ phone calls. t41ofiice7 0 bka . Did she tell you when she started to talk to I51 A Oh, yeah, absolutely. Iz; him again on the te&phone? Q Okay. And so now youve’ described - you said that A Yeah I believe she did. I dont’ remember when it i76;she described to you a series of I guess we can call them fitwas. thouah. I re&mber it was a long time before she heard [ 8 1 innocuous personal contacts that shed’ had with the igifrom him Z ain. I 9 I President, correct? 8 You told us that this conversation where she 1101 A Sure. ~:~~revealed her relationship with the President tack place in 0 After she described those .whats--’ how did she - t12jthe summer of 1996; is that right? {::iyou know, the best you can recall I understand’ this was a (131 A Yeah, I think so. 113 1 while ago, but how did she describe the next level of Q Can you tell us roughly when - if you can - Hrhen [ 14 jescalatron in the relationship between her and the President? :::lthe,__,~ ~~ teleohone ~. calls started? If vou can. 1151 A What do you mean the - I161 A I real cant.’ Im’ sorry. Q Well in other words you said that she said I met t171 MR. WISI&BERG: Can I ask one question? I:tihirn in the office, we’ passed, we &&hatted I saw him in I181 MS. WIRTH: Yeah sure. t 1s j the hall. Then what did she describe was the next - what [I91 BY MR. WlSENBERG: tlg~happened after that? Q Its’ just a clarification. Is it that - I thought A Well, during the events that she was recalling to I:yiyou had said - you had said that when she first tdd you I:yime would have been instances where they had physical contact_ t22labout it the relationship appeared to be over; is that (22 1 It would have been in the same uence of events that she r23,corred!’ t231told me that she saw him in the hal=14v ay. A I wouldnt’ characterize it as over, she just hadnt’ Q Did she say that she had physical contact wtth hii_ I::;heard from him in a while. i::;in the halfway? - Page 32 to Page 37 OlCStan 3380

0sA Ashley Raines. l/29/98 xMAx171 Page 38 Page 41

:I1 A Oh. no. no. no. no. no. ! : : conversations would take place. did she - she would call you j2i Q Okay. .So-’ 1: i from time to time and tell you about them? Is that how you ~3: A Im’ just sa ing that there wasnt’ - she didnt’ :x! learned about them? I‘ ! lead up to - she would ter I me the sequence of events as :4: A She wouldnt’ call me to tell me, you know. She : 51 they happened. And as they happened, there were : j!wOUld call me in our re ular fnendship if we were making j 6; urcumstances in which there was physlcal contact. [ 6; lans or talking and ca Pchmg up. and she would mention that :7: Q But the physical contact was not the first time she : 7: f:ed’ called or - f 9 I met the President? [B: Q Did she tell you anything about what she was :31 A No, no. hone calls. how she received them. how 0 Did she give you a sense of how long it took before : 1;; they - the first time she met him until they actually had : IZ 1 any kind of physical contact? A Well it was still during the furlough I think in i::;which the first hysical contact took place. So I would say iI5ljust a couple oP da S. Q Andlthen you said that later she described to you I:76lsome pho;e ach!;;$she was with the President. 1181 Q Did she describe toy - whatJK;i;fppne calls iii&e they having? Were they just lsarssmg 1 z 11 they discussi In the phone calls? A “9 dont’ remember. At first I think basically it i::;was when she wouM be around maybe on a weekend when he would 124 lbe in the office and basical dscussing, you know. the rz51possibility of seeing each ozi;er.’ [zsltelephone?

Page 39 Page 42 I11 Q And he would call heR III A Some. Some. I21 A Yes. 0 And knowing Monica did her recounting of the I31 Q that she called him? I : i telephone conversations sound true? Would they have a ring , A [ 4 lof truth to them? She was telling you the truth? I :i had never called him, and I dont’ think [51 A I didnt’ have any reason to believe that she wasnt’ [6]hOW to. [ 6ltelling me the truth. ,-I, 0 j.1 Okav I71 BY MR. WlSENBERG: I81 EY Mz.%i RTH : [El Q Not just the phone conversations but a lot of what 191 0 Now. did she tell YOU the kinds of thinas that thev rglyouve’ relayed to us that she told ou historical about it [ ioiwould talk about on.the-telephonk w,hen these convebations _ I 1 o 1 seems 10. be fairly, fairly detailed. has it somezing that [ I I 1 took place_Athe tele hone conversabons? I 111 had the nng of truth to you back at the time she was telling I be P[eve she probably would have in generalities. !12lyou? I :: i not in detail. You know they were personal conversations. I131 A When she would tell me things, I would listen. I [I I 1 but she would me kind of subject matters. I 14 I didnt’ have any reason to believe she was lying, but you know I151 you remember any of them? [ IS 1 I didnt’ go ask anybody else if they thought rt was true or I remember that he would talk about his childhood risitalked to anybody else about it to confirm her story. I ::76iand rowing up. and she would relay stories about her I 17 Ididnt’ have - I couldnt’ do that. [ 1 e 1 ctuIfz#ood and growing up. I guess normal conversations that Q When she wouM be upset because she hadnt’ heard [ 191 you would have with someone that youre’ getting to know. i :iifrom the President in a while and then would be happy when I201 0 Anything else that you remember? I 20 I she had heard from him, did that seem to be me& up to you or A You know, they woukl robably talk about trips that 1211genuine frustration and then oenuine happiness? I::; he was going to take or had taken ans.tnps that she was 1221- $y &seeMeferiuifbe. . . [231taking, you w. with the Secretary and - I cant’ remember 1231 [ 24 1 any specific Subjects. Im’ sure that there were plenty, I Q & you recall that you* been recently in&Mewed 12sljust - t::;by the FBI?

s Page 40 Page 43 Q When you said a dnt ago that to the best of your 111 A Yes. I::memory those conversations took place on the weekend? Q And do You -1 “~[~#$~t~oyou about I31 A No. No, I dont’ know that I said that. 1 :i interviewed you when you described [41 0 Im’ so _ Maybe I misunderstood that. Do you ~4 lher physical-relationshtp with the President during the ttrne : 51 know when the took rp ace 1s 1 she was working at The White House as reciprocal oral sex? I61 A hell the wouM happen - if he called her at I 6 I Do vou remember savina that? [ 7 1 home, it would be &me!imes in the middle of the n ’ ht. i7j - A Yes, life: 181 Q When you said middle of the night. w“(, at bme. do you [El Q And thats’ - that was in fact what she told you? [slmean? 191 A Yes Im’ retty surethatwas true. [lOI AQ lntnt~~orn~R;d:OO,~OO in the morning.. i Q N&,didpyoq ever learn that Mqnica began to see [I11 I:yithe President in A Yeah. She said it was retty late because tt would ll21 A ~pjsoh”ea~!?7 i ::; wake her up, but she went to bed pre early because she had Q And do you reme&e;yghly when that began whe [ 14 1 to get up really early for work. And then also the t$he started to see him again in ~1slconversations would take lace on the weekend while she was 1151 A I think it was p&bty around the beginning of ! 16 1 at work and he would call !er at her desk or - r1r11997,__, .-- Q Do you have any idea the length of some of these 1 I171 MR. WISENBERG: Are we bud enough. i : 2: 1 conversatiF? Dii she ever tell you how long they spoke? 1181 MS. WlRTH: Its’ time for a break. I191 She might have, but I don? remember. I191 THE FOREPERSON: its’ time for a break. Q You may have been asked this already b Mr. Binhek. 1201 MR. WISENBERG: Oh, sorry. I:;; but let me ask it a ain. Do you have any knowledge as ro 1211 MS. WIRTH: Thats’ fine. Sorry. 122 Iwhether the Presi&lent made the phone calls or she made them MR. WlSENBERG: Well’ take a 10 minute break. 12 3 1 or a little bit of both? Do you know? fZlWeII‘ come out and get you in 10 minutes. I241 A He would call her. izci rtness excused.) I251 Q Now, during the time that these telephone 1251 rBrief recess.) -. OIC-Starr Page 38 to Page 43 3381

BSA Ashlev Raines. 1129198 XMAXI8) Page 44 Page 47

I:1 gitW&pp.) ill A She did. i.?] 121 Q What did she tell you? (31 Q I belsve JUS! before we took a break I had asked 13! A She would tell me ou know, basically as before i 4 lwhetner there came a tme when Monica told ou that she [ 4 1 that - the subjects that they talkeJabout. It was kind of [slstarted to see the President again in person a yter these - (518 mentonng type relatronshrp. She admired him, seeked hrs j 6) thts senes;f tele$stone calls. I 6 I advise. you know. normal professional type questions. (71 I71 Q Do you remember anythrng specific she told you that Q And I think I asked you roughly when that occurred, i 9 1 they talked about? 1% 1 and I thank vou said eanv 97.‘ rg! A 1. really - I cant’ remember specifics. She would rioi A Yes. _ [ioltalk. again, subjects. you know, tnps that he had gone on, ill1 Cl Do you have any recollection as to what month? [ 11 ltnps that she had one on. She made some recommendations as 1131 A No, I dont’ I 12 l to what she thoug I!t would be a ood idea for something, and I [131 0 Was it still mntertime? rl3lcant’ remember what the subje-c! was about. 1141 A I donl think I would connect it to a season. I Cl41 BY MR. BINHAK: i1sjdont’ know. Cl51 Q A policy type thing?, MR. WISENBERG: You realty have to try to speak up I161 A Not polrcy. not JUS kind of ideas, you know, ideas i:t;so the peo le in the back can hear you. I I 7 1 that she had. [I81 fHE WITNESS: Maybe I should face this way. iisi Cl But ideas for him personally or for the country or

1191L-d, BY MS WlRM- t19jthe Presidency? Q Now, do you have any recollection of how she told [201 A For the administration type things I guess.

i:i:you that she be an to see bin again what she said? 1211I--, BY MS. WtRTH. A do. The on thing I dan recall is when they would I221 0 You were about to tell us something, that he i::;talk on the hone, she wouzf ask when she would see him. 123 I responded to a sug estion of hers? 8 And do you remember anything that she told you [241 A I thrn9, he encouraged her saying ou know those i::iabout what the President saaid to her in response to those 12s 1 were all good ideas. He would thank about him. Jut‘ I mean

Page 45 Page 48 [ 11questions? I 11 it was never an hmg s ’ nrficant where she said “Oh. look, 121 A We‘ ll’ figure something out.” Thats’ all I really 12 l he decided to dyto somet’ R. rng’ I suggested.” [ 3 1 remember. Q Do you remember anything else she told you about 141 0 Okay. Generally what do you remember about Monica i:ithe visits? t5 j telling you that she began to see the President in person A That sometimes when she would go vistt there would tslagain? Did she tell ou where, when? i 2 1 be no physical contact, there WOUM just be, you know, 171 A I donr; remember the details of the conversation t7tconversation. i 8 j only that, you know. arrangements had been made. Oh, wait. I91 Q And what about other times? [ 91 Im’ sorry. I ust‘ did recall something. She went to a radio A I mean there still were some times when there would tloladdress wit.c, her famity. Her family was in town and I think t:z;be physical contact. [ 111 she told me she had asked if she could ma be come to a radio [Ill Q Dii she tell you the nature of that? [ 12 1 addressed and he said that - well, she totdyme that he told II21 A The same as before, kissing and oral sex on [ 13 l her that he would talk to Betty, his assistant, and try to [13loccasion. 1 I I iwork something out. [I41 Q Did she tell you where, specifically what room I151 0 And did she uttimatety go to that radio address tl6laccording to her? [171 A Yes. Yes. Q And is there some conversation that took a3 at i ::I that radio address or something that ha pened after that I& I 2 o l made you remember the radio address.J A I think just that she told me that Betty had been I:: j asked to, you know, help get her family in, and it probably tz3rhad started some communication between her and Betty about 124 1 her comrng to visit. I think that was probably when that r251started.

Page 46 Page 49 III Q U until this point, do you know whether Monica - MS. ws)RTH: Just for the record. the door opened iSland dosed. (41 Mr Brnhek exits the room. Mr. Binhek returns.) 151 $Y MS. WtRTH:

[I 11 I dent know that there was an htng beyond that. Cl And did she tell you an hrr& about the nature of Q Okay. So wha s the next thing that you remember / ::; her relationship with Betty at that time32Was’ she getting i :: I that happened after the radio address? 1131doser to Betty than she had been previously? II41 A Well, after - I141 A I think so. (151 Q That you heard,,,. I151 pcfl: Bruce Udotf enters the room4 A I mean afler a period of time then she totd me Let the record reflect that ruce Wolf i:;lthat she had gone to vistt him I realty canfremember when I$ihas entered the room. Hes’ another Associate Independent 11 B 1 it was that it ha pened. but Betty would dear in. She told tl91Counsel. t19lme that Betty tearedP her in. THE WITNESS: Im’ sorry, could you repeat the I201 Q Do you remember what time of day? [:i/question? [211 A No. I would assume that it was probably on the f211 MS. WtRTH: 122 Iweekends just because there arent’ a lot of 0 I lost my train of thought mysetf. Oh was theii tz3tweekends. and that was one concern was tRat”OPte here around shouktn ont’ I::lrelationshi getting doser, her relationship with Betty? (24 1 be a lot of eople around when she went to visit. II Yes, I believe it was because they would have to I251 r5 Okay. Did she tell you anything about the visits? I::; have conversations as to whether - when was a good time for

Page 44 to Page 49 -__- OlCStarr 3382

q SA Ashlev Raines. I/29/98 1”lXlQl

Page 50 Page 53 i ; : her to come VISIT. if tt was going to work. So conversahons [II 0 Did she have any nicknames for the Preside-! that ( 2 1 lrke that wouid take place. r 2 ! she used when she spoke to hrm directlv? ! 3 : Q Do ou know whether she ever discussed with Betty i3i A Yes, she did. ; J ; what the nature of Ker retationshr with the President was? !41 Q What drd she call hrm? A I dont’ know that tf:ey really ever had a direct [ii A She told me that shed’ call him handsome. 12; conversatron about it, just in that ou know, she would come 161 0 Do ou know whether Monica herself was ca:ed by ; - ;vrsrt. I dont’ really know that they 94ad another - anymore 17 1 any nicknames at rhe Whrte House? rsiconversations about it. She may have, but I dont’ know. ,F(,.-. A Not to me no Q Okay. And do you have any memory whatsoever as to 191 0 Did you eveihear anyone call her or refer to as i iii what time if da these visits would take place? 110 1 the stalker? I:l: r.thank tt would depend on the day, who was around. I111 A No, I cant’ remember that anvbodv- . referred tc her [ 12 j She was cleared in some mornings. There may have been some I 12 1 that way to me. [ lslafternoons. I dont’ think that there was ever an evening I131 Q DO $0~ know whether Monica ever received any gifts r14lvrsit. I 14 1 from the President. I151 Q Do you know how long her visits took generally? il5i A Yeah, she told me that she did. A I never asked her a span of time. I cant’ imagrne 0 Was that before or after she left The White House, i :7”; they would be very long just know his schedule is pretty 1:761do you know? if you know. r 18 1 hectic. llE1 A You know. I dont’ Q Do you know what preci itated the visits in the ou tell us what gifts she told you the I:zisense whether she would call and ask &?tty if she could see t2llthe President or whether the President called her, meaning The ones that I remember were a hat pin. [221Monica? t2.21 Q What is a hat pin? A Right. From what I understood from her, most of : A I didnt’ know e&her until she told me that it I::;the visits were prompted by her asking to see him through i::iexisted. ks’ a long pin that you stick in like the side I 2 5 1 Betty. Or if she had had a conversation with him on the t251of ahat. And I guess its’ to keep your hat oh. You put

Page 51 Page 54

hone and asked if she could see him, he may have mentioned [I 1 your hair through it on the inside. I didnt’ know. A hat rzlpin. a broach. [31 Q What kind of broach? Do you remembeR [41 A It was something that you would wear on a lapel. [ s 1 It was kind of ant ’ uey looking. [61 Q Diz you ever see it? [I‘ A Yes. She wore it pretty frequently 181 0 Im’ sorry, continue. I91 A There was a bodr. 7he Leaves of Grass.” 1101 Q Do ou remember who wrote that? [ill A WaITWhitman. There was a - my English teacher [1z]wouw be ud of me. There was - Cl31 viE FOREPERSON: You have to keep - I141 A JUROR: The book. what was it? t151 THE WITNESS: Leaves‘ of Grass.” It was soms

tzolminutes.” Q And did you hear whether she was able to get in on I:: 1 that occasion? A I think she got in but only saw Betty. I mean, i::;thats’ what she told me. I didnY see her when she was BY MS. WtRTH: tzslthere. Did you personalty see all these items yoursem

Page 55 Q Wasshetoktan\rihiv+respecttethe A The? items I did. .and I think thats’ why I I:; Presidents’ whereabouts on tha occaston tha you recall? ~ j$tef?befed them ts because I dd see them. She showed than 131 A Not particulady related to that visit_ no. I41 Q Do you know whether she ever had any nicknames fo; I41 Q You saw the broach, correct? [ 5 1 the President that she used in her conversations with you? 151 A Yes. t61 A Shedkt. I t61 Q Did you see the hat pin? I71 Q What were they? 171 A I think so. I think so. A Well, when she was referring to him and talking to I I81 Q Andth4zbook? 1 i 1 me she would call him the bi creep. 191 A Thebook, [lOI A JUROR: Cou Pd ou speak louder. Q Dii she te& an~&;n~;yt;h~~tres.k3ent Ill1 THE WITNESS: l%e bg creep. i:y{gaveherthebook? Isthereany I121 A JUROR: Big creep. I 12 I particular book? I131 THE WITNESS: Mmm. I131 A Besides the fact that he liked it? 1141 BY MS. WIRTH: I141 Q Dti she tell you he tiked it? 0 Do you know why that she chose that nickname for / I151 A Yes. I:zlhirn? Q Okay. Now, did Monica ever give any gifts to the A She - well obviously, she didnt’ want to refer to I ::76jPresktent? I :,;‘ him on the hone as the President and she real 1181 A Yes,shedid. [ 19 1 referred to 1.im that way when she was‘ talkin rsonal situation where she was saying the I 1:;; ro. you know. wherever his trip was taking him. And I assume i [ 22 1 the word creep just because she would get upset when she / t23lwouldnt’ hear from him and wouldnt‘ see him, that she didnt’ 12 4 1 appreciate the tack of attention, you know, for whatever I [ 2 5 1 reason called bun that. I

OlCStarr Page 50 to Page 55 3383

BSA Ashley Raines, 1129198 XMAX(l0) Page 56 Page 59 [ I 1 interest In them. She really liked mens’ hes and enjoyed [II Q And do you remember when that occurred, when tha: [2 lpicking them out. And she knew that he irked ties! and a lot ! 2 1 conversahon took place7 [ 3 1 of peo le give them as ifts to him, so she gave him those 131 $ lAbnedl”_e‘ that It was around the summer of 97.‘ ; 4 I ties. Rfter the first one, 9 thmk they were In relation to !I: i;i;;zi;hda& Christmas. . ,d,151 A I thank earl summer. Drd she ever tell you whether the President wore (6! Q And how dyId Monrca feel about that? , ,..._.I,_ I:] A She was upset about It t9: A Yeah. She would tell me when she would see him [81 Q And what happened then? [ CI jwearing it at an event he went to or whatever situation he [91 A I thank in her own mend and what she wouM share I 1 o 1 was in and when she would see hrm on t.v or in the paper. [ 10 lwith .me she was trymg to get over rt and was contemplatin ill] Q Any other gifts that she ave him besrdes the ties? : 111 movrng, looking for another ob. She wanted to get into PF? A She gave him - she tolBme that she gave him some (12 1 communications and thou t maybe - I dont’ know - she i ::; books and a little frog. She heard that he liked frogs and tl3]couldcomebacktoTheW4(1rte House and do it or go somewhere, [II jshe found a cute little frog that she thought was something [ 14 1 New York or London. You know, she was kind of just playing [ I 5 1 he could put on his desk. 115 1 with options in her mind of what she could do. [I61 Q Did she have any photographs of the President that 1161 Q Did she tell you she had been subpoena in the Paula 1171~0~ saw? [ 17 I Jones case? t131 A She did, yes. 1181 A She did. Q Do you remember anything about them? Were they (191 Q And do you remember roughly when she told you that? I:i&jst pictures of him or pictures of him wtth other people or I201 A Yes. It was the weekend before Christmas. t211wtth her? [211 Q This past Christmas? A Well, she showed me pictures from that radio I221 A Yes, of 97.‘ i::;address that they went to with her family. And then there 1231 Q And what was her reaction when she talked to you [ 24 1 was one just the two of them, 1 beheve also at the radio 124laboUt this? tzsjaddress. I think she had other random pictures from another i25j 1. A Well, she told me she had been subpoeneed. Her

Page 57 Page 60 [I 1 time she was there she might have gotten them. [ 11 reaction was of concern. concern that, you know. she had been Q Did she have an phot ra hs of the President t2 1 singled out or ulled into this and concerned that - of the f:iwearing any particular tie that s): e boug“3,R. t rm that you t3jdeposition itseB and what she would say. [ 4 1 recall? Q Did she tell you anything about whet she was going A Yeah. I think she showed me a picture that she had i:;to testify to in the case? izlgotten of him wearing the tie. He was signi something. 171 Q Okay. Other than the ties aZI the books - A And she ave me a copy of that picture too. I I “, : actually have a copy of t3, e.ptcture. 1101 Q Do ou still have that? I111 A YeaK , I think somewhere in my envelope of pictures. Q Other than the ties and the books any other / :: i presents that you recall she told you she gave the President? A None that I can recall. Those are the only ones i::ithat stand out. Q Did she ever tell ou anything about a mug, a I :7” ;drtnking mug that she gave the Jrestdent? 1181 A She may have, but I dont’ remember. Q Anything about a drinking mug with the words Santa 1191 A No. About her conversation with bin? t:~~Monic.a on it? t201 Q Yes, anything that he said to her. (211 Aa ~a$a$lonica? I211 A You need a la r. I dont’ remember. [221 I221 Q Anything else wGa ut what she said to him? I231 A No. I231 A No; I dont’ remember anything else. Q Dii she ever go on any trips with the President Q When you say she told Vernon Jordan about it. what i<:ithat you know of? $:ido you mean by it?

Page 58 Page 61 t11 A That shed’ received a subpoena. 121 Q Just tell us again everything that you remember t3jwhat she said about that conversetion with.VeF Jordan. I41 Aa 9: : About tha conversetton with Vernon Jordan? nd where was that to. -do vou know? 151 6 i6i A I dor?t. I61 A I real dont’ remember that she shared much with Q Did she have any personal contact with the [7]me. just that she ha2called him and asked for his advice and ii 1 President on that trip that you know of that she totd you 18 1 he recommended a la er and she was supposed to meet the rslabout? [ sjlawyer the next da ink she said that he was oirg to [ioi A I think that they saw each other. 110 jesawt her to the o ce and make the intrcdudion_%etween Ill1 Q Saw each other just in passing? I 111 the guy he was recommending and her. I121 A She tokl me that she saw him. t121 .Q And do you know of our own knowledge from your . [131 Q But not a personal visit? [ 1x1 conversabons with Monica whether kat ever to&c place? I141 A No, I dont’ think so. I141 A No, I dont’ remember that we ever talked about that Q Can you tell us anything aboy that Mor tislagain. I :zitold you about how, you know, her reta ionsh wtth the 1161 Q Now, you said that the first time Monica mentioned [ 17 1 President pr ressed over time? I know you old us that 117 jto ou in the first conversation that she had been subpoeneed [ 1 e 1 visits resurnz% sometimes separated by long periods of time. tlejto estrfyr . tn. the Paula Jones case that she was concerned. [I 9 1 Can you tell us what she was concerned about? A I dont’ rernamtx?r until the second conversetion we. i:!ihad that she told me she was concerned. The meson tbet she 122 lwas concerned she totd me was she was concerned about what tzsjshe would say in her deposition. If she dented any 124 jrelationship with the President in a deposition whether tbet t25lWOUkt be considered perjury.

Page 56 to Page 61 OlCStarr 3384

Ashley’ Raines, I&!98 XMAx(11)

Page 62 Page 65 Ill Q @ she say anything else? t I ,menttoned to ou that - I think she said tha! she wished the IZ! A 12: President hadycalled her, that she hadnt’ spoiten to him about (31 Q Did you say anything to her at that time about what [ 3 1 it. Do you remember what conversation it was that she said I J lyou thought? r 4 : that? I51 A No. I didnt’ have an oplnlon. Is1 $ IA;:: the second. (6) Q Do you know whether she discussed the subpoena that [61 I 7 I she received with anvone else other than you and Vernon I!’ A The Irstr conversation. we were at a party and she i 8 j Jordan? r 8 1 really just kind of menboned it to me. We ddnt’ have much A I would assume that she told her mother. I dont’ [ 9 lof a substantive conversation about it. So thats’ why I (:zjth~nk that she told me that she told her mother. [ I o 1 remember clearly fi was the second because I cant’ imagine we Q Did she ever tell you about any discussions that [ 1 I 1 would have had much of a conversation at a party with a lot i :: 1 she was havin with Linda Tnpp at about this time? 11rlof people around. I131 A 80. The last Id’ heard her mention Linda Tripp was [I31 Q Now, durin this whole time, I uess ou know evec [ 14 Itelling me that she was going to a Christmas party at her r 14 I- lets’ start at the time tha 9 Monica worked at B he Vi&e (l~lhouse. [ 15 1 House. Did you ever see her with the Presdent? [I61 AQ Have you ever met Linda Tripp? [I61 A No.

LA.,1171 I have met her once. Q At any time after she left The White House, did you IlEl Q Under what &umstances? 1 :i lever see her with the President? A It was a farewell party for a colleague of theirs i19j A No. I:z;at the Pentagon at that colleagues’ motheh home. Q You also told us that Monica was thinking of moving Q Do you have any knowledge of any relationship I:y:to New York. How did you feel about her moving? I:f ibetween Monica and Linda as to whether they were friends and 1221 A I was sad she was goin.p to be moving. She was a r23lthey would talk? [23]fIWd Fat I would, you know, do Soua actmbes wrth. go A Yeah, they were friends. She referred to her when ~24 ItO moves, 0 t0 dinner. those types Of things. I:::talking to me that she had talked to Linda. The most their 1251 - 8 Now, you mentioned a moment ago that she had so

Page 63 Page 66 [I 1 relafionship that I knew about that she shared with me was [ 1 ldisatssion with the President about getting a job in New 12 1 trading diet secrets and talk+ about.- ou know, she would [2,YOrk. 13l!ell me that Linda had lost a lo. of weigh rand how she did [31 A Yes. (4 1 It. and Monica was encouragin her to do that. I41 Q Can ou tell us about that? Q Do you know w#ether Monica confided in Linda her A She xought, I guess if anybody can help her get a [z 1 relationshi with the President? i z ;.ob that he would know people that ghe couid talk to or refer x She told me - she told me at some point she had ~7 1 her to people. And I think over several months she had ii ialso confided in Linda. [ 8 1 conversatiqns about the whole job search with him and looking Q Do ou koow of anyone else she confided in about 191for something to do, you know, that she realty wanted to do. 1 iii her relationship witK the President besides ou and Linda? Q Do you know how Vernon Jordan became involved in A She told me that she was tair;. ng to her mother I :y i her job search? 1:: 1 about the relationship. She was also talking to her aunt. A Well, a ain. she asked the President for his help. [I31 Q Do ou know her aunts’ name? I::;He suggested Vernon 3ordan, that he would have the contacts 114, A Debtie Finnerman I think is her name. I 14 I and somehow the two of them began a conversation about it. Q Anyone else? 1151 Q The two of them being she and Vernon? ,, A I dont’ think so. Not that she shared with me at El61 A She;rdfi;;T;,$s. il7lleast. 0 Do ou know an hing that Vernon Jordan did for her 0 Going back to her conversation with Vernon Jordan, I:l;in terms of helping 1 :ijdid she indicate to you in any way that she told Vernon A She told me I Ihink that he taked to some people [ zo 1 Jordan about her concerns regardin what she would say?’ i:iiat some firms and set up interviews for her o( sug ested that A I dont’ remember if s R talked to him about it or rzlltheytalktoher. Thebottomlinewasthatshehac? I::lifshe tokl me. 122 J interviews with some companies that he recanmended. Q Did she ever tell you about any discussions that - I Q Did she ever discuss with you any efforts on her I : : 1 let me take that back. Did she ever tell you that Linda I::ipart to get a job at the United Nations? rzs,Tripp had been subpoenaed to testii in the Paula Jones case? / 1.751 A Yes. shedii.

---- Page 64 Page 67 111 A I don? rememberthat she sharedthat with me. No. i 111 Q Dii she tell you how that cameabout? Q Did she ever discuss with you an affidavit that , 121. A That one I dont’ remember &arty who was involved fiishe. Moni?. si ned in the Paula JOF case? [ 3 J tn omversatiins, but at some point in her job search I41 fro. I dont’ know ansvbout that. : (4 1 disarssions before Vernon Jordan was invofved, the President Q To your knowledge s e ever tell you that she 151 had talked to Marsha Scott about hel ing her t a ob‘ John i 2 idiscuzsed with the President the sbbpoana that she received [ 61 Podesta. and I think even she was ta P.king to E!x*.tty ume : 7 1 to tesiify? [71about the whole job search situation. At any rate. someone A Actual I remember in our conversation about the [ 8 I had referred her to Bill Richardson, and it may have been i “, i subpoena that she a2ually told ma she had not talked to the [ 9 J Podesta. but Im’ not sure who that actually was. ( I o 1 President about it, and she was upset he hadnt’ called to see 0 For the record. hes’ the United States Ambassador [ 111 how she was doing. I think she assumed in her mind that if i:ylto’ the United Nations. [ ~zlshe had told Vernon that Vernon may have told him, so he knew I121 A To the United Nations, yes. [ 13 1 but wasnt’ callin to find out how she was doin I131 Q And did she eventuallv meet with Mr. Richardson to Q l%w did she coma to speak to 8 emon? Do you know i 14 j your knowledge? I ::; how that connection was made? I151 A Yes. she had told me that she had met with him. A She was - as I said before, when she was talking 1161 Q And do you know where that took place? I :7” i about moving or looking for another ob.‘ she was considering I171 A No, I dont.’ Actually. I only recall a [ls~movingt~N~wYorkandwork~~in(hefiektofPR ~ (18 J conversation o the phone. Im’ sure that she did meet him in ~191communlcabons and asked the resident for his hel m trying ~19~person but I - [molto find a ob.‘ And from what I understand from her, [201 Q But you dont’ know? [ 2 11 referred c,er to Vernon and suggested that she talk to him, 1211 A I dont’ remember. [ 22 1 that he could possibly have some connections and be able to I221 0 Do you know what the results of that particular job (z3lhelp her. [231search at the United Nations were? Q Okay. If ou can remember, during A She said that they had - they rim ly offered a i::isecond conversation wi& her about the subpoena t i::ijob. that she wasnt’ sure that that was really wha Pshe

OIC-Starr Page 62 to Page 67 3385

BSA Ashley Raines, U29/96 XMAXW)

Page 68 Page 71 i 1 Iwanted to do. She really was focused on wanting to be rn PR Cl1 Q And do you recall whether you ever showed those [ 2 I communicatt0r.s. [: 1 photos to Monica? I31 0 Drd she end up accepting any particular job offer I31 A Probably. I probably would have. An photos that [I I that you know of, [I 1 I had with the Presrdent were ktnd of novel. I mean tLey !5j A Yes. Revlon was the corn any that she told me that [slwere neat thongs to have, so I probably would have showed I 6 lshe had been offered a job and acceptecf? 16 1 them to her. [I‘ Q You told us you know that at some point she had 171 Q Do you recall any reaction on Monrcas’ part to I 9 I contacted Vernon Jordan ~9 lseeing thoF photos rf you notrced any? i9i A Yes. I91 She may have made a comment about Cathenne. Q Was -when did she tell you that? When did you [lOI 0 What kind of comment? 1 :yifirst hear that stre had contacted him? I121 A I dont’ remember a time nod, but I dont’ think t13jthat its’ been a very long period of time I=hat shes’ known r14jhim. 1151 Q Drd his name come up in either the first or the t16jsecond conversation that she had wrth you about the subpoena? 1171 A Yes. because she told me that she had contacted him i 18 jasking for his advice on the subpoena, and he had recommended r19)a lawyer. I201 Q And as to any involvement that Mr. Jordan had in Q Each of us has a few questions for you and maybe I 2 1 I her iob search. do YOU remember whether that took place after ~:~~son-rs of the Grand Jurors will as well. t22jthese conversaboris about the subpoena were before anything Did ou ever hear or did Monica ever tell you that rz3jelse? I::ishe went with rhe President to see a movie in the movie 1241 A The fb search had taken place before the [ 2 4 1 theater at The White House? tzs)conversations with er about - 1251 - A No, she didnt.’

Page 69 Page 72 [II 0 So he was helping her with her job search before [II Q Did you ever hear about any time when Monica t2~she had discussions about the subpoena? ~2 jwatched a movie wrth the President in that theater? t31 A Oh yeah. Yes. t31 A No, I didnt.’ Q Did she ever sa anything to you about - strike 141 Q Okav.. When is the bst time that you talked to i!.ithat. I takithah:ck. Do you znow who Bayani Nelvis is? tsjMonica? t61 t61 A She balled me Tuesday last week and - I71 Q Have you heard that name? 171 Q Give me just one second. PAUSE Oka , Continue. I81 A No. - A -Tuesday of last week and said “H! Ashh, its’ 191 Q Did you ever hear Monica mention the Presidents’ Ii ; Monica. Can you take some information from my l&ye And rio~St+wd, the wader. the prson who brought him, you know, [loIshe handed the phone to her lawyer who identified himself as 111 Idnnks, breikfavi;hings lake that? 11 I 1 Bill Ginsberg and the name of his company a phone number to I121 I 12 1 reach him to aive to anvone that may be calling me about t131 Q What do you remember Monica telling you about him?. tl3jMonica. - t141 A Oh. say his name again. Cl41 Q And did he say anything to you about whether you I151 Q Ba anr Nelvis. Hes’ known as Nel. tls]shouM call him? I161 A Ne( yes. Thats’ why I didnt’ recognize it. Ive’ t161 A No,, no. It was i the context of referring anyone [ 17 1 been trvina to think of his name. I can onlv think of one of j17)who calls me to hrm rfthe have any questions about Monica. t 18 ithe stewa& names and I knew that wasnt’ him. She had a 118.1 Q Qkar AnJ did you agree to that) t~sjfriendship with him. He would get her M 8 MS when she - A I JUS sad okay.‘ Okay. ’ He cau ht me off guard. rzolyou know we ive those out as trinkets to iewhenthey :::;I had no idea why they were calling me. so I just ock the t21jcometofheL&’ rte House. We give tham peepo kids or something. t21jinformation. tzz jTheyre’ in a box with the presidential seal. And I think tz3jthey had just a regular friendship. I dont’ know how it (24 jdeveioped. I251 Q Do you know if she ever had any discussions with t2s)youre’ a good friend of hers.’

Page 70 Page 73 I 1 J Mr. Nehris. Nel, known to you as Nel. about the President? 11 lthe essence of be careful. That wasnt’ his exact words, but Not that I remember. I would think it would only t2 1 that was m recoIledin of basically what @s was tellin ma. (r Okay. Now, qou knew Momca roughly 8r how bng? t:iAbout a little Over two years. I51 A Two years. t61 Q During the course of your relationship or based on, [ 7 1 ou know, the tan th and the depth of our relationship with 1st Ker, do you consk? er her to be general;I a tmthful person? A I do from my experience with her and dealings with t:il)her I do. 1111 A Yes. 1111 Q Do you find that in ywr reliiinsh with her that 1121 Q Im’ going to ask you tf ou recall an incident when I 12 I she mostly tells the truth, sometii tells the hutR‘ [I 3 jyou and Lisa, who you mentioned eaxrer. your roommate. were [13]somethng else? I mean, how would you describe ihe [ 14 1 at the Old Executive office Building and you ran into the I 14 1 truthfulness in our cnvn words? [ 1s 1 President with Catherine Cornelius. 1151 A &he was very open and forthcoming from my I161 A I was with my roommate Lisa yes. [16]perqxC&& in What She Would tell me. Q Do ou remember an hrng about that particular Q The book on - that you told us the President gak ! :i 1 incident? p;ghptographK taken at day? I :i ; her. do you know whether it was inscribed? [I91 1191 A NO, I dont’ remember that, no. 1201 Q Andwhpwasinthefotqgra$3. I201 Q Have you disarssed our presence here today, y&r A It was krnd of as we were wa 4 past him so I t21jtestimony toda wrth anyone at The White House? I:: 1 have a picture shaking his hand and I think Lisas’ picture ’ I221 A {es I have. [ 23 ] was either as they were either cbming to or coming a R I231 Q And who did you discuss it with? [241 Q Is Catherine Cornelius also in thosegCos? A Some ofthe ple in my oft%43 know that Im’ not I251 A I think she may be in the backgmun , yeah. I:: i there, that lTLe been having peo leave” to go to meetings and

Page 68 to Page 73 OlCStarr q Sd XMAX(13)

Page 74 Page 77 [ 11 thongs. m boss certain1 and the deputy In my ofhce, and I [ 1 lthe word we used - about both that Evelyn Lieberman had been I 2 1 advrsed txe Counsels’ okice as I assume that were’ supposed 12 1 involved and the reasons for the transfer. Do you recall ! 3 I to when we aet subooenas or have been contacted bv - for [ 3 1 testifying goutYt;zt earlier today? i4 j legal proceei!!rn 5. i41 :51 Q aid ou meet wrth anyone from the Counsels 0ffrc-e !5! Q Based on your friendship at the time - this is ii; A I unJerstand that I may need to talk to my la [ 6 1 before you had been told about the relationship by Monica : 7 1 that there m,ay be some privilege issues on answering any ov?er* I 7 I with the President. correct’ : 3 1 these quesonsYe:a;utt o talk to her? isi A Im’ sorry? :91 %efore you go iet me just tell you what 191 Q That wasnt’ very artfully asked. When she got I o t the auestlons wouldl be I 101 transferred and ou heard the office talk of her - i:i] A That would be hel ful. I111 A F!ight. Right. :i21 MR. WISENBERG: e/by dont’ we just wait and until - Q -was that at a point in time when you had not yet I : 3 1 to do that until weve’ asked all of our other questions. / ::ileamed from Monica about her relationship with the :141 MS. WIRTH: Sure, we could do that. Sure. [I 4 1 President? il51 BY MS. WlRTH: 1151 A Yes. Yes. Q Turning back to the time when Monica discussed with Q At that time, based on your friendship with her at !:76iyou her conversations with Vernon Jordan and that he had ::76ithat time, did you consider Ms. Liebermans’ concerns to be i 18 1 referred her to a lawyer, did she ever discuss with you who I ls]credible? [I. 9 1 would pay?r thata,laNy.er, any payment arrangements? I191 A I had never known them to do something of that I201 [ 20 1 nat.ure toward any other employee, so Im’ sure that they had I211 MS. WIRTH: I dont’ have anymore questions. We can [ 2 11 valid concerns for dorng it. [22]do yours. Q Well, I mean more based on just your interaction I231 MR. WISENBERG: Do ou want to go next? I::iwith Monica. I think you said you werent’ as close friends 1241 MR. BINHAK: Go aheaa [ 24 1 then as you later became. r251 BY MR. WlSENBERG: I251 A Right. Right.

Page 75 Page 78 (11 Q You were served with a Grand Jury subpoena a few III 0 Based on what you knew about her at the time, how rz]days ago? tzlyoud’ talked to her and seen her,. did it just strike you as I31 A Last week. t3]somethrng like that doesnt’ surpnse me? 141 Q And when YOU were served, is that when you had an A Oh, no, it was very surprising. I didnt’ know he; i 5 j interview - i:iwell enough or know her activities. Yes, I would say it was I61 [ 6lsumrising. I1’ Aa Yes:- wtth the FBI or was it later? 171 Q Did you and Monica ever exchange gifts? $ The,subrna was delivered 16 my lawyer - was I91 A Yes. iiigiven to m lawyer an 1 met wrth the FBI tater. t91 Q How often? What kind of occasions? I101 In the presence of your tawyer? A Birthda s, the holidays. On occasion she would buy [Ill A Yes. i:ylrne something from a tynp that she went overseas and I would, I.21’ 0 You did that voluntarily, correct? c 12 ]you know, buy her things maybe when I would go on a trip. r13l A Yes. I131 AQ D$ you all ever go shopprng together? Q You have test&d about the fact that Monica totd .--,r,*, I::lyou that Vernon Jordan was helping her in finding a job, do -Q b;;any of those occasions did she ever buy or talk [16]you recall that? I:ziabout buvina somethrna for the President? 1171. A Yes. [17i -A- Yes. - Q Was that the first time you recall her mentioning 1181 Q Could ou tell us about that? i:i{Vemon Jordan in the job hunt - in relation to the job hunt? A A tie. 8he asked m adviceon’ ties which I know t201 A Yes, that I can remember, thats’ the first time. I:z:nothing about. tf I thought they looied good if the ’ would tzi 1 look good on televisiin rf ou were far away. ’ You znow all tzz Ithese - I was not ve he1 pful, but I was the?, es. Q AN-% And would she explratr y mention that I::iit would be for the ?r&dent? t.251 A Yes.

Page 76 Page 79 1 I ]suggestect that she talk to Vernon. Q And did she buy it on that occasion any tie that 121 Q This was after you knew about the relationship - I: ishe was talki about, or was she just shopping? I31 An? remember she couldnt’ decrde at that 141 Aa Right.- wrth the President? i:ithink she bou ht to and ended up returning one. I thinp.she”‘ I isi A correct. 151di purchase &tern there when I was there. ’ Q If ou had not known that Monica had any kind of I61 Q Do you have any recollection of what they looked

I;jrelationship with Ke President or had not been tokf and she ..I...--.I 7 1 like? [ 8 1 caked you u one day and said Vernon Jordan is helping me to I91 A I could possibly pick them out - pick one of them rs]find a job. C%en - not meanin 3 to insult her in an way, [ 91 out in a picture, but I dont’ know that Id’ be very good at I 1 o I but given somebody at the leve she was at, wouk!that have tlo]desuibing it. [ 11 ISUrprised you? Q Do you know whether ornot she ever dated men who I121 !! No.. ._ I::iwereclosetoherina e? I131 $ ;fre atedi men that were close to her in age? I141

Page 74 to Page 79 BSA XMAx(Y14)

Page 80 Page 83 j 1. as possible. They were a very close family. They support [ 11 rf Ive’ gotten anything wrong - an incident where you went - : I : each other. 12 :- when she toid ou about going to see - olng to The White 3‘ Q Did she mdlcate her mother was upset when she [ ; ; House uninvrte dyand belog - not being ab 9e to see the : learned about the relattonshi 7 i 4 President;As th;;Frrect? .z, .- A I dont’ recall tKat she was u set, no. 15: : i Q How about the aunt? Did sE e ever indicate the aunt 161 0 And do you also remember telling her in that .-was‘ upset? [ 7 i incident about - when she was talking to ou about that 2 A I dont’ think so. [a :mcident that she wasnt’ able first to get a zold of Betty Q Did she ever mdrcate that she told her mother [ e; Cume either when she went there that time? : iabout’ her concerns wrth the subpoena - regarding the IIO! A You know, I dont.’ I remember at some point in : : : : subpoena? i 111 conversations that she would tell me about wanting to see :.-. A I dont’ remember that she had a conversation with 112 1 hrm. that rn trying to reach Betty to find out if R was a i ;; j me about telling her mother about it, no. I dont’ recall. I 13 1 good time for her to go that, you know, on one or two :14;no. [ 14 1 occasions that she hadnt’ been able to get a hold of Betty, ::5; Q This friendshi with Nel - the steward named Nel - [ 1 s 1 but I dont’ rebte it to that incident. I dont’ know that it ::6:- whose nickname was Nel. sId you regard that as unusual in ( 161 happened at that time. .:7iany way orAjust - I171 0 Do you ever recall her telling you about an :I91 I thou ht it was a little odd. [ 18 1 incident where she went to The White House and wasnt’ able to 13;‘ Q And w9,y is that? lf you can articulate that for us I 19 1 see the Prewdent and found out that somebody else had been ,zo!why you thought it was a litbe odd? 120 1 cleared in to see the President a little bit before she had - j2!1 A Well, hes’ an older man. I uess I didnt’ think [2 I I- another ferna& had been cleared in by maybe 30 minutes, an 22 1 that they would have much in common. I %ont’ have a social [22 1 hour or somethrng before she had been? 23lrelationshi with the Presidents stewards. I dont’ know. [231 A It nngs a bell, but I dont’ have a very strong 6 You mentioned social relationship. As far as you 124 1 recollection of who or what or when. :: i knew, was that a platonic relationship? (251 - Q Okay. But it rings a bell?

Page 81 Page 84 [I! A Oh yes, yes. [II A Yeah. it does. Q Did she ever express to ou ex licitly or 0 You mentioned the calls from -you mentioned the ~~~implicitly that Nel could be an atd to herx. tnd o P.n seeing I : i discussion with Monicas’ attorney the last time you spoke c 4 lthe President or knowin when the President was available? I 4 lwith Monica. correct? A No, I donSt - from my understanding of her, I isi A. Uh-huh. ~~~dont’ think she ever woukl have or did talk to him about [61 Q He said refer - he said to refer any calls he got r?lwanting to see the President. [ 7 1 about Monica to him? rai 0 And why do you think that? [ai MS. WIRTH: That she got. !91 A I know wh J think that, but for - I have that - [91 THE WITNESS: That I got. [lc;i Q Just a fee r~ng based on our knowled e of her? [lOI BY MR. WlSENBERG; A An impression from whar she would sftare wrth me [Ill Q ~-ZI,I~IJ‘ got to him? i ii 1 about talking to him and conversations with him. I dont’ 1121 A ~13ithink that that was what her friendship was about with him. ii3j Q Were you at work or your home? I141 Q What do ou think it was about? [I41 A I was at work. A Getting hz8 Ms’ to give to friends of hers. 0 All right. What - do you have any idea what kind ;::;Truthfully. I - 1:?5iof calls he was talking about? Q Okay. Dii she ever mention to you that she might A No, but within an hour or two the press starting I fi lcall Nel just to find out how the Presidents’ doing or what ~:~~calling me. t~s$ips he mi ht be on or thi s like that? [I91 Q Did ou refer them to him? I201 R No, not thatn? recall. I201 A No, rdidnt’ ever mention this. Q So you have - you dont’ think she would have told I211 Q He s not our lawyer, is he? i::;Nel. and YOU have no idea if Nel was aware of the (221 A Absoluteil not. tz3jrebtionshi ? Q Okay. The - I just want to dear on one thing t241 6i I wouldnt’ think 50. but again, I, wouldnt’ know. :::;I think you rn@ht have already answered. I&n she first told I251 Q Well, I asked a two-part question. That was dumb. [ 2 5 J you about the relationship whrch she had wtth the President

Page 82 Page 85 111 A Oka rllwhereshewasdescribi howithadbeen didshesayata I1’ Q Firs{ you wouldnt’ think that she would tell Nel? r2lperiodwhenshehadwo“4, edinTheWhitekarse,didshesay I31 A No, IwouldnI_’ r3lwhere she was when she got called? In otherwords, was she - 141 Q Ive’ already forgotten the other part of the I 4 J - yoube told * at some point about calls she would get even tslquestion. [ 5 Ivery tate at n ht. Did she ever say she was ako sometii I61 A I have no knowledge that she told him. t6lin her office z&en he would call? 171 Q Thank vou. iai A Im’ ettin good at this. You said that Monica totd you they would go into (91 Q An8you aont’ think he was aware - that Nel was she went into the stud did she sa they [lolaware? the Oval Oftice and tken go into t&t 1111 A Not that I know of. Q Were you - have you been aware at an time before You have to go through the Oval Offtce to get to r :: 1 the events of the last - before this has become news dy.unng rl3lthe studv. [ 1 I 1 the last week or two, were you aware of - aside obviously - ii4i _ Q I quess YOU would have to meet there then? [1s]we have what Monica told you. But other than what Montca iisj A Ye. - [ 161toM you. were OU aware at an the of rI.rmOrs going around I161 Q Un7 ess he was already in the study. (17 1 in The White Hyouse or the OE& about a relationshtp between [171 A Yeah, but I dont’ think that was ever the case. [I a 1 Monica an; theNFident? Q You don? have any recollection of lt bein 1191 I :i i described to you that way that she would iust walk into 8 e [L?O! Q You mentioned that she was concerned in - she was t 20 J study? (I 1: concerned about getting the subpoena in the Jones case, did 1211 A No. No. I dont’ think so. [ 22 1 that concern seem genuine to you? 1221 Q You satd that in early 1997 Monica told you that [231 A Yes, it did t23lthe relationshp had ~surned; is that cone@ Q You talked about an incident that - where - I I241 $ Fe;y 97, is that what you sard? I::idonr want to misremember your testimony, so you correct me I251

Page 80 to Page 85--~ ~~~---~ OlCSfarf 3388

BSA Ashley Raines, 1129198

Page 86 Page 89 A Yes. III A Yes. .^.- I21 ou said that in, if understood you correct, In 0 Why dont’ you tell the Grand Jury what you heard ! 3 1 about summer the President told her that he wanted to .<. about that? rslbreak IIt off and still - but still have a mentoring type 4‘ A I - she played the tape for me. There was onty is that correct? J: one, but I remember - do you want me to recall what I think Well. he didnt’ use those words, thats’ what I - .c,he said? 0 Gathered7 Q Yes. A - viewed their relationship to be. the mentonng A First of all. d was In a whisper. It sounded like i3ltw .-l;him. but again it was in a whisper so I cant’ be sure. And I:01 Q In spite - ::: : he said from what I remember Hello,‘ are you there? Pi& up I111 A And a friendship nonetheless. ::::Come on, pick u I must have missed ou.” or somethlng of [I21 Q Pardon me for cutting you off. ; 12 ; that nature, andP hen he said some worLI.llke drats or kind of I131 A Thats’ okay. ;: jj a silly word that he used to explain that he must have missed Q How long did she tell ou in actuality the ~24 1 her. And thats’ all I remember. i ::irelationshi including the physical re7. abonshlp, went on? !:5: Q Was that on an answering machine that had a .[I61 g I think it - I mean it continued. ii6iCassette tape in it or - [I71 Q All through 97?‘ 1171 A Yeah, it was one of those little tapes. I181 A Uh-huh. Q So you actually. then - did you - were you at her 1191 Q All right. /::;home when she played that? [ZOI A Although s oradic and infrequent. [201 A Y&s.- Q Didsheiru!caI te to you that It was not as frequent I211 Q So, then, you actually saw this tape? I::ias it had been during the time period when she worked in The [::I A Uh-huh. 1 z 3 1 White House? [231 Q So at one time this tape existed? A That was always my assumption that after she left I241 A Yes. i :: i The White House it wasnt’ as frequent. 1251 -- Q And did that - did hearing that, did that lend

Page 87 Page 90 Q Would you consider her to be a loyal and supportive r:lcredibility to the story that Monica Lewinsky was telling !:ifriend to vou? r21you? I31 A Yes, kind of - it was still a whisper, so I guess relit could have been someone impersonating him, but I had no [ 5; reason to believe that it was&t_ I mean it sounded like t6lhlm. Q Okay. You told the Grand Jury that Monica told you Iiishe was or at least conve ed to you that she was concerned I think Im-done.’ I dont’ promise that Im’ done. [slabout the subpoena from rhe people involved in the Paula [IO1 A Can I clarify one thing? 1101 Jones litigation correct? [Ill Q Yes. Sure. [::I A (/es. A Im’ sorry. Before you people ask questions. The [Xl Q Did she ever tell you what she intended to do at I :: i last question before the break when you were talking about my [13lthe deposition or what she intended to sa ? [ 14 1 roommate Lisa and the piciures,.did you ut Monica in that Il4! A No, because in her mind I hink1 she was still 115 1 situation? Did ou ask that Momca was Rere and that - [ISI tryin to deal with the fact that she had a deposition and MS. &IRTH: No. I asked whether Monica ever saw 1161was 9tying to work through the whole situation. I :7” i the pictures and what was her reaction. 0 And when you sa the whole situation, do you mean THE WITNESS: I couldnt’ remember if you had said I:ilthe situation of going to a depos&n in genTI or that she I:i;that Monica was there. [lglunderstoqd that they were oing to be aski her about her [TOI BY MR. WISENBERG: 120 I relationshlp with the Pres &nt and she didn want to say? Q Was she upset that Catherine Cornelius was in that [zl]What do you mean the wt~ole situation? I:: 1 picture? Did she get upset when she saw Catherine Cornelius? A Well, as I said previously she mentioned to me she A I dont’ know that I would say she was upset. She I$as concerned that if in a deposition if she denied that she i :ii asked why she was there, what she was doing. (24 lhad a relationship with the President if that would be 1251 MR. BINHAK: I just have about seven questions, so tzslconstdered pequry. That was her cOncem that she relayed to

Page 88 Page 91 [ 11 I wont’ take ve much of your time. Illme. THE%lTNESS: It would have been better if you Q But she didnt’ tett you that she resolved that t : ; hadnt’ said the number. I:iissue in her mind? I41 [4l A No. Uh-uh. IkzELw Then 111’ ask them in two parts and it I51 Q Whatdidyousay- I ~~will be three-and-a-half uestions. I61 A Because at that point she hadnt’ even met with a I71 THEWlTNES% : Okay. 17 1 lawyer. 181 BY MR. BINHAK: Q What d; you sa&!u&$l;;;e$$sky told you tha Q You said that the President - that Monica would i$he had told Linda Trip about IS ; iii call the President duri this relationsh’ and - rlolreiationshi she had w h the Pres‘ nt?. _ A I didnt.?’ said she woul?call Bes.. 1111 1 What did she tell me? Q She would try to call the Presiden In other words, Q No, but what did you say? What was your reaction ;::;right? 1::jto that? I141 A Through Betty. I141 A I was of course surprised that she would even share I151 Q Did the Plesldent give her access to The White r15lit with me much less anybody else. I dont’ remember that I [ I 6 1 House ever time she called? rl6lhad any comment to make on 1 I canr recall though. I171 A I dont’ think so. No. 1171 .Q And youve’ told the Grand Jury about those 0 Dii you ever hear from Monica - did Monica ever t~alcon~ersat!ons. that you had with Monica Lewinsky about her I :iitell ou that she kept or had tapes of her conversations with [lg@attonsh~p \?rrth the President. her intimate relationship rzolthebresident? 12owth the President. the phonecalls and the visits, did you I211 A Ta s of her conversations with the President? [21lhav~ other conversations with Monica Lewinsky, or dtd this I221 Q fithe President on the telephone? tzzlsub]ecI completely dominate everything that you talked about? I231 A No. A No, I would have gone crazy. NO, there were Q She didnt’ tell ou that she had an answering i::ldefinitely other conversations. I::;machine tape of the Presiden r? 1251 Q Okay. Would you say this was a small portion of olcstarr Page 86 to Page 91 Page 92 Page 95 : : j the total conversations that you had as friends? 11; (Grand Jury Exhibit No. AR-1 [Zi A Yes. I-1‘ was marked for identification.) :3f Q You mentioned Mr. Podesta before. Can you just (31 BY MR. WISENBERG. : 4 iquickly tell the Grand Jury who he is? 14: Q And Im’ going to ask you did you receive that from A John Podesta is one of the Deputy Chiefs of Staff [ 5 1 Ms. Lewinsky? j 2 i at The White House whos’ in charge of basically the 16: A- Yes, I did. 7 1 operations side including my office. My office reports to iTI Q And could you read it lease to the Grand Jurors. Fs!htm. 19: A Do I have to read theP ront. too. or iust the 0 And then you told the Grand Ju that Monica Ii ii Lewinsky was ettrng help from Mr. Podesta inxer Job hunt? A 7 think indrrectly. I think the President byrng iii 1 to helD her meant talk to Podesta. I dont’ know that Monica i;jiever had a conversation with him. Q Okay. So you think that the reason she got this I: :; help was tpu h her relahonshrp wrth the President? .--.,161 % rom mv understandinq from her. yes. [I71 Q And - . A Wail a minute., Say that question again. Was i :iibecause o&herFizationship wrth the President? I201 A Well because she had asked the President for l=lP r::{and they were friendly. The had a relationship. Im’ not [231sure exact what you - Q Do you know who she was talking about when she said I241 8 Thats’ what I meant. I::ithe Big Creep? ~251 A Okay. 1251 .‘ A Yes.

Page 93 Page 96

Q You were - when Ms. Wirth asked you about Nel or [II Q Who would that be? I: i Bayani Nelvis. you said that youd’ known there was another [21 A I referenced that she nicknamed the President the c 3 1 steward. How did you know - do you know who the other (3 1 Big Creep. [ 4 1 steward is? I41 Q Do you know who the Little Creep was? I51 A Yes. I51 A Yes, I do. t61 Q How do you know the other steward? [Cl Q Who was that? A Because in our office we kind of mana e the [71 A A man that she had another relationship with. ii; trinkets that the stewards take on trips with the Presk!ent 0 Now let me show you another document and ask you 19 1 to give to people. so he comes by our office. I”,iif YOU recocmize this. I101 Q So you dont’ know him through Monica? rioj ’ A Yes. I:11 A No. [111 0 Is that also among the things that were provided to I121 Q Oka And thats’ all the questions I have. [ 12 1 us through your attorney pursuant to our subpoena? I131 AJUROd : Whats’ the name of the other steward? Cl31 A Yes. [I41 THE WITNESS: The name of the other steward? I141 Q And Im’ oin to mark that 2. I151 BY MR. BINHAK: MR. WISENB%R8: Let the record reflect Im’ marking Q Just for the record, whats’ the name of the other I :z;this document AR-2. i::;steward? _ _. __ 1171 (Grand Jurv Exhibit No. AR-2 Cl81 A cjien Ma s. iiej tias mark& for identification. 1191 MR. WISENBtRG: Bruce do you have a uestion? I191 BY MR. WISENBERG: 1201 MR. UDOLF: After ou take care of the suII poenas. i I201 Q Would you agree with me that Ive’ marked that AR-27 1211 BY MR. WlSENBERd I211 A Yes. Q Let me show you a couple of documents, and Id’ like I221 Q And could you te!! us. first, what kind of document I::; ou to identify them. The first appears to be a card with a t23lthat is. and then 111’ ask you an&&r question about it? tz4 1 r;ates number that presumably our attorneys have on the A Thisisan~atomyboyfriendfrommyworke- tzslcard. and this was a card from 4 onrca. to you; is thaP $Zirnail account.

I

Page 94 I Page 97

[l]cQrrect? Q And could you read the message that you sent to A Yes. I I:; him? We dont’ have to know hs name just the message, you changed or altered in / I 3 I know. that YOU sent. I I i:iima! dealATu~~~~~~~~~~~~~i~~~ helped a [61 onica. Im’ glad I rdnt’ keep m dose contact with her [ 7 1 over the last month, because she told me se was pretty - Bates? Yeah. Actually, I said that it ts lmessed. And when she sa that, its’ sea r9lapwars - I 191 Q Do you reca rI what - first oI-y all. this e-mail 1101 A And that. I [ I o lwould have been sent before - would this have been sent. if Q Actually, I said that ! t 11 I you recakA~fo+~~~our conversabon about the subpoena? I::; have ut some Bates numbers on I 1121 tlslthat. P*t s just as likely that we did, but there are I [I31 Q All ht. Do you know -do you remember what she _ 114 1 numbers so. I rllrlwasmessedup-w“3, atshewasrnessedupabout? 1151 A Uh-huh. I 1151 A She was goi through the who& job sear-oh Aside from Bates stamps on there, the card has not / tl6lsituation at this time. And zat Iassumedbertobe I 17 1 referencing was oing to interviews, trying to tajob,ancl [ 18 1 shes’ been, you &now, having problems over Fe last several Q What I call Bates numbers - and there is also a rlg]monthstrylngtofindajobandbokforaob..AndIdidnY’ ~:09~009 over tFre;Tethat correct? [ 20 1 really uestion her as to really %buttl!atwasmy I211 I 2 11 unders9 anding of what she was re mng to. 1221 0 All right. Im’ goin to put a Grand Jury exhibit Q And we all know email messages are sometimes sent [ 231 number on the back of this, and am going to mark this as i::;off the cuffAwith;za; great deal of thought. (24 1 Grand Jury Exhibit AR-l. 1241 t251 ! I251 Q Whaiif anything did you mean when you said “It .. / Page 92 to Page 97 olc-starr 3390

SSA Ashley Raines, 1129198

Page 98 Page 101 : gels pretty sea when shes’ messed up?” ::I BY MR. UDOLF: A %e!j. I didnt’ mean she was sea when shes’ messed (2: Q Ms. Rarnes. my name is Bruce Udolf. Im’ atso with I up, but she - Momca 1s an emotional person. xnd when I say : 3 1 the Ofhce of the Independent Counsel. I just have a few : emotional, I mean sentimental. We go to movies and rt ! 4 1 more queshons for ou : touches me and she cries. You know, it - so she was easrly ii‘ COURT REPORTER: Can you just come a lrt% closer, !ouched by people and sduations and that is what I was !6] its’ not pickrn u on the ta e. ’ refernn to IS that rf she was having a difficult time that I1’ M F?&OLF. III right. = t must e% drfhcutt for her. She must have some, you know, 191 MR. BINHAK: Bruce, why dont’ you sit here : problems !3i BY MR. UDOLF. :._ Q When she was havino a - Im’ sor~v. I. I cut YOUI off. (101 Q YOU said she told you about someone the President ,-- A Thats’ okay. ” : 1~ 1 jogged with out in California? i:Z. Cl men she was having a difficult time as your 1121 A Yes. r 1-: fnend. did It mean more time for you, I mean oud’ have to I131 0 What did she tell you about that? i Ii. ut in more work helping her through it as paityof the (141 A She told me that shed’ read - I dont’ know d she ; : 5 kndship?A [ 15 1 saw - shed’ seen pictures that he had gone jogging with a I donY know. It depended on the time that I had, [ 16 1 woman that he had had dinner with or had been at some event i jl:because I also - Im’ a very busy - my job r uires a lot of [ 17 1 with the nrght before at the hotel he was staying at. I r;s.time and I do have bovfriend and other frien7s. so she would [ 18 1 think he was staying in a hotel. And that they went jogging i ?$:want to talk more than-l could give her sometimes, if that [ 19 1 the next momrng. and there was a report - or there was no I2::answers your ueation. tzojreport that she left the hotel before they went ogging.‘ I-:: Q qThe - did she ever tie - in any of her t211 Q Was she concerned about tha 1? r:2:conversations about job hunting, did she ever tie a job to 1221 A I wouldnt’ use the word concerned, she was - r25:something that she wanted from anybody in - let me rephrase I231 Q What was her reaction to that news? [24:that. ~241 A I dont’ know. She just was - she wasnt’ [25: Was there ever any connection between the job and [ 2 s l surprised, she was - can you give me some adjectives and

Page 99 Page 102 1: :anything else an y wanted her to do at The White House? t I I Ill’ say if its’ the way she was feeling. I dont’ know - : -. In other words dybodrd she ever tell ou so and so wants me to I21 Q Why was she telling you this? i;jtake a job - to$ke’ this job. be i!the U.N. job or the A She WOUM just tell me things that she would read [ 4 : Revlon jobA but;,” not ynkto do rt yet unbl they do X I:iabout. so it - [s:for me? Anything ever tke at? I51 Q About when was this, do you know? 16: I61 A No. I dont.’ [7: Q When was your - was the second conversation about Q You indicated that there were two conversations in IS ;the subpoena in the Jones case the last conversation you had ~~~which you all talked about her being subpoenaed in the Paub 1 g:wrth her beAforezoe call with her attorney? 191 Jones case. 110: I101 A Uh-huh. 1::: Q What would be the last conversation you had with [III .Q And then Mr. Wrsenberg just asked ou about the i 1:: her before this became very public news? I 12 1 convenatron that took place on a Wednesday and Ken she 113’ A The week before, like Tuesday or Wednesday, we t13jcanceled on that Frida 114 jtalked on the phone and made plans for Friday to have dinner, I141 A Yeah. t Ywas Tuesday or Wednesday. [ 15:and at that pornt she told me she had the job -they made [I51 .Q Other than those conversations, were there any [ 16:the job offer at Revion. and that was the last time. [ 16 I conversatrons between the two conversations where you taked 11:: Q Did she ever get - what happened on Friday? Did [ 17 I about the subeoena - tls!she - A Uh-huh. A I ot a very mysterious page that said she couldnt’ and the diner dat i:ilrnake dinner an8 wed’ make other plans. r conversations? Q Did she ever have a chance to talk to you before - I:: iafter that Ffore it became public? I23! Q e;T 2d.J 8 s+ anything? [24i 135: A Oh, Im’ sorry, no. I forgot where I was. i25j A Ye%.

Page 100 Page 103 Q And the day she called, she immediately put her Q How many times did you talk to her - well. Ws ii jattomey on? I: ! pint it down first of all.

13..I’ A Yeah. 131 A Okay. i4: Q She just said Will‘ you talk to my attorney?” and I41 Q After she got subpoenaed, you said ou saw her at a [5;put him on? and ou talked about the subpoena although 1was very 16; A Yeah. ~:~~ riahti [7; Q I just want to - and she never indicated to you t7j - A Uh-huh. I e lone wav or the other whether or not Mr. Jordan knew about her [El Q Do you know about when that was/ i 9 j d&mm&, her concern about being subpoenaed in the Paula I91 A It was the Saturday before Christmas. (1 o i Jones case? Q And I understand you talked to her on the phone t111 A Not that I remember. I:y;after that. Do ou rememberwhen thatwas? _ [12!. Q Do ou ever remember her telling you about any 1121 A bell then the next day we got together and 113 1 rncjdent involvin l!baanor Mondale? rl3lexchanged Christrn&l-lanukkah ifts. Chnstmas for me 114; A &anor Mondale? I remember her telling me about I 14 I Hanukkah for her, that Sunday. and then I left for Chris&nas (15 1 someone that the President jogged with when he was in tls~vacatlon the next day. 1 lr.]California. I dont’ know if that was Eleanor Mondale or not. I161 Q And is that when you had the conversation that you Q Do you - you recall that it kind of rin s a bell, I 17 I told us about earlien I :i i if I remember correctty - a while back you testified t4 at it [I81 A The second conversation. 119 1 n s a bell, an incident where she went to The White House 1191 0 The second conversation. r2o:az! couldn t get tn and found out somebody else, another 1201 A That Sunday. I 2 11 female, had been cleared n before. There s connection in Q All right. Drd you see each other again after 1: 2 ! your mend between that incident and Eleanor Mondale? I::ithat? (23: A I could have been her. but no, I donY recall. 1231 A Yes. 124: Q Oka I think thats’ all Ive’ got. An t241 AQ vfnn. did you also talk on the phone after that? 1251 MR. U&: I have a few more ques ?jyIon. else? 1251

OlCStarr -- Page 98 to Page 103 3391

Page 104 Page 107 Ill Q And how many times did you see each other? I: House. A Do you want me to go through each one? ;e. A I21 ,:,- !31 Q I guess. 0 RDi$ou recak her ever telling you that she had 14i A I can coun: them. I can try and count them. :; : seen the movie Arr Force One? i5j Q All right.. go ahead. I 15: A We went to the premrer together. i5! A Does an one have a calendar or checkbook or [E: Q You went to the premier together with her? : 7 1 anything just to look at tyFor-n;;$h of January? r- A Well. not premter. I dont’ know if youd’ call it a !81 A JUROR: ! 5. premier. It was at the Crneplex Odeon on Wisconsin. i91 THE WlTNESS No, 98.‘ Thank you. Q Did you - did she ever Indicate to you whether she !101 BY MR. UDOLF riz.had been tc~ theNfoamIly theater at The White House? Iill Q For the record, youre’ looking at a calendar that !I:: [ 12 1 includes December of 1987 - [I:: Q Did she ever rndicate to you that she had been 1131 A January 1998 r13:caught, for lack of a better term, either caught, found out, i14i Q and-. [I 4 : discovered by any member of The White House staff in a I151 MR. WISENBERG: 1997. F 15 1 compromising position with the President or in a position [161 BY MR. UDOLF: 116:that would have revealed the true nature of their Cl71 Q Ive’ lost 10 ye&s. Between December of 1997 and ;;g;relationshr No, [ 18 1 January of 1998? 1191 A I believe it was four times. Q Did -was there ever any discussion that you had Q Okay. And were those purely social? Those were I:o&ith’ her - after she told ou about - stnke that. After [:i i personal visits where you saw each other one on one? [ZI ;she told you that she hai had these arran ements with Vernon 1221 ; pk,rrt of the srtuabons were groups - [z2 1 Jordan to get a lawyer in connectton with t3,e Jones .--,17-41 [23@eposrtron, did she rndicate to you how she was oin to pay [24l A - in public places. t24;for any la er that Mr. Jordan was going to refer%9er o? I251 Cl Did you discuss this issue at all? 1251 - wz No, and she asked me that.

Page 105 Page 108 A Not that I remember. The last conversation was the II! Q Im’ sorry? I:;- that I remember was the second one that I refer to. [21 A Mrs. Worth asked me that. Q So between the second conversation where you told Q Im’ sorry I might not have heard. I apologize. /:ius about where ou discussed the subpoena and the time ou i:;Thats’ all the questions i have. thanks. rslwere contacted $ Mr. Ginsberg - or by Monica first then I&. I51 MR. WISENBERG: [ 61 Ginsberg and tha conversation, did you have occasicn to I61 MS. WIRTH: Sure. May l? f7]discuss with Monica at all these issues related tp the Jones l7i BY MR. WISENBERG: [ 8 1 case or possible subpoena or deposition? A Not that I remember because in each situation we [:,;were‘ in a public place or in a restaurant and sitting at the [ 11) bar where there were lots of ople around, so I cant’ [ 12 1 ima ine that we would have Pad another conversation about it, [ 13 1 and9 dont’ remember having another conversation. Q Okay. You toM us earlier that you had mentioned I ::ithis to your mother what Monica had told you about her [151 Q Wrth reference to anything? [~slrelationshi witbey President; is that rght? [I61 A No I dont.’ (171 g [I71 MR. WISENBERG: Okay. Shall we sa what the I181 Q Is there anyone else you mentioned it to?. [18lqi+ions are we want to ask that involve the poten tyral A My bopnd. I referred on ve&&sneal~$ r 19 1 pnvrfege issue and let the witness go talk to her attorney? E:z;just his wanting to ge to knew me and my t201 MS. WtRlH: Just see rf anybody - does anyone have tz1lwho was Monica dating and is she seeing anyone, wbicb I. you 1 z 11 any questions that we havent’ asked? tzz 1 know, said that she seei an 0Mer man, referenced it but r221 MR. BINHAK: One of the - r23lnever gave really any kr.rzt of details. He, of curse. wanted 1231 MS. WlRTH: Di you have a question? rzrltoknowwhoitwas. Isitsomeonelknow? Andwbenbe-I MR. BINHAK: No, what I was going to s gest Ls I fzsjcant’ remember if he asked is it the President - i::!think this - lf the Grand Jurors dont,’ maybe we shou I?go

Page 108 Page 109 I11 Q Did you tell hi? I 11 reveal to her la er what the questions are. A - but he - basically it came put to where be I21 MS. %RTH: This Grand Juror has a question. i:;understood that that was the person that she bad a I31 MR. WISENBERG: We have a question. 14 1 relationshi with. A JUROR: I want to know if she mentioned to you 151 6 Anyone else that you would have mentioned it to? i :: anything to you about the ad that she had put in the [61 A NO. ts]WaShingtOn Post the valentine ad. 0 Did you ever hear from any other sources other than ! 171 T HE VJITNESS: she did. IiiMonica that there was a relationship between her and the 181 BY MR. WISENBERG: .-.r 9 I President? I [91 Q What did she say about that? I101 A No. A She told me that she was goin to put in the ad. Q You never heard any discussion about it at all ~:~~andshetoldrnethatshedid uttheadin. S 4-easkedmeff I::laround the office, around The White House er the Executii [ 12 1 I had seen ft which I hadnt.’ P didnt’ even go look at it. f131Gffice Building? r131And I think she -she also told me that shed told the [I41 A No ust‘ in the context of her leaving. 114 1 President that she ut it in there and asked if he had seen Q Didhonica ever tell you that she had talked to the r15lit. And I think that R - she told me that he looked at lt I :z;President after she had received her subpoena? [16land saw it and the talked about the quote, A No because the last conversaben I had wfth her 1171 Q Didyshe ind’ rcate whether or not he was happy or i :i labout she had not talked with him. Q Di she ever indicate to you that she had taked I:z;with the President while he was overseas? 1211 A While he was overseas? r221 Q Yeah, after she had received the subpoena? I231 A I dont’ think so 0 You told Ms. Wirth that you dont’ recall Monica Q Around -this is around the time of being I:: 1 telling you anything about seeing the movie at The White i::;subpoenaed.

Page 104 to Page 109 OlCStarr 3392

0s.A Ashley Raines. 1129198 XMAU19)

Page 110 Page 113 .*j..I A No. MR. WISENBERG: Lets go ahead because mines’ : ,’ 1 MR. UDOLF: Why dont’ we let her go talk to her ii /to be the last one. BY MR. BINHAK: 3 1 lawyer. .-I .d I MR. WISENBERG: 0 The one question was what was your reaction to the :51 Q Hold on just a second What were’ going to do IS. ,: j Presidents’ denral of this publrc - of this rntrmate ,c i for the record here, Im’ gorn to ati you the questions and : E 1 relahonshr between Monica Lewrnsk and the President? In 7 1 then ask you to go and spea9, to your lawyer, and after that : - lother worBs. the President just recent Yy dented before the 3 ! youll’ be able to confer wrth lawyer But rather than have .s :State of the Unwon Address that there was an tntrmate o out. come in. go back out agarn. Ill’ ask you the , ?:relationshrp between hrm and Monica Lewcnszy What was your : ::3 9 you’ 1 ques 9.Ions now for the record. You can tell me whether or not ; :J 1 relation to that? One of the Grand Jurors asked me to ask :: ;you think there might be a privitege Issue. If you want - : :: : you that. : 1: 1 If It would help ou. you can wrde them down. 1121 $ v;arrsonal reaction? Numze r one would be, Who did you speak to at The !?3i i iii White House Counsels’ office about your subpoena and !I41 A Does that matter? : : 5 1 testimony? ::51 Q What was our reaction? :;61 A Uh-huh. ii61 MR. WISENBEAG: The Grand Jurors have asked. Its’ :;71 0 What did the tell you. the entire discussion you !17lnot a privile ed : : 9 1 had with wLoev~e_ yhylkeJto in that regard? IlBl TRE I%%-&!? Well no I understand that I just !19j K [ 1 gp the statements that hes’ made as - have been - have not‘ I201 Q Did they refer you to any attorney? t2o 1 been definitive 1211 ; yo,ry‘ attorney? t21 jactually stating i221 t22 1 Information and he ;231 A Uh-huh. t23~statement. i24) Cl Did they tell you that you were never going to 1241 MR. WISENBERG: Any others? : 2 5 1 pay - whether somebody would pay for the attorney I251 1 THE FOREPERSON: I just want to darify that. So

Page 111 Page 114 A Uh-huh.

I51 A Did they ive me any instruction on - 0 A reques9 that afler you were done toda you were i;; oing to be debriefed, not by your own attorney but by rhem. 1 B 1 Bm not interested in any conversabons you had with your own ! 91 attorney. Ms. White, out there. [ 9 I appropriate to ask it. We can discuss it outsiie the A That when I was done today that I would be rloipresence of the witness. but I think we orobablv ouaht to i i p i debriefed or that I would debrief them? i 11 jitay away from questions involving opinion. s _ .?I‘ ..- Q Well, you - 1121 THE WITNESS: Thank ou. A Yeah, there would be a debriefing. Who was the I131 THE FOREPERSON: Tt!ank you. i i: 1 arty who ets - yeah - who ets debriefed Im’ not sure, A JUROR: I have a uestion. Dii you at any time ;:51 gut yeah, t?Iere would be a de& nefing t::itell Monica that you thought that t9,e relationship that she ;:61 MR. UDOLF: ti6jwas having with the President inappropriate, that you thought Q And also wed’ like to know whether or not youre’ 117 1 that that was an ina ro riate relatronship? iii i paying for the lawyer you have hem today yourself or if THE WIT&.&: My discusstons with her always - i I 9 1 someone else has made arrangements to pay for him? j:i)think she had a pretty clear understanding that I didnt’ (201 A Her. 120 1 necessarily ap rove of the relationship that she was having. :211 Q Exarse me, st$s a she. r21~There was notR.tng that I could independentty do about it. :i21 ; ~~~oa~~ Ks a male. t22lShe was a frtend - 1231 1231 A JUROR: I understand that. 1241 BY MR. WtSE%ERG: THE WITNESS: - I had to listen to her and offer i251 0 Heres’ a question thats’ not - you dont’ have to I::ladvice as much as I co&, but I think she understood that

Page 112 Page 115 I 1 lwrite down because its’ not covered by a privilege. Has tljthat was standing on it. I 2 1 anvone swoested to vou exolicitfv. inotii. and I dont’ f21 “)r JUROR Dii you ever think she was obsessed with i3imean just ifThe Whife Ho&, I riiean’ any&e, that you should t3)him? I a I tell less thr th;oyil truth here today? 141 THE WITNESS: No, I wouldnt’ use the word obsessed. I51 151 MR. WtSENBERG: All right. [61 Q Anybody implicitly or explicitly threatened ou? A JUROR: Real quickly and ou might have already [71 A No. Eve one has encouraged me to tell t e truth. I76isaid this, but I just want to be sure. 1 don 181 Q Great. A right. .Watl. then well’ excuse y!u telnames. Do ou personal1 know Little Cree 19 I and ask you to discuss those wrth your attbrney. 191 relationship rhat she deve raped while shes’ i-01 A It will be ust‘ a second. t 101 whoever Ltttle Cree is? III1 MR. WtSENBkRG: And well’ take a very brief break. I111 THE Wl&ESS: Yes. . _ I::] t121 A JUROR: Do you know that person? ii31 THE WITNESS: I met him once iI41 __ N: Ms. Raines. you are still under MR. WISENBERG: ::sloath. [:61 THE WITNESS: Thank you. I?71 MR. WtSENBERG: Ms. Raines. we are through with our. ; ;; ;questioniqF;e&.: While Iye were out, let me just say for i 2 o I the record, two of the Grand Jurors indicated to me that they i 111 have addrtronal questions, brief questjons. that they would : 22 1 like to ask Ms. Raines, when youre’ rinished. 1231 MR. WtSENBERG: AU riqht. Were’ not aoina a

I251 THE FOREPERSON:

OlCStarr Page 110 to Page 115 3393

Ashley Raines, II29198

Page 116

I 4 1 was concluded.). . . . . 15; 16i ii; l9i [IO] 111: [I21 [131 [I41 [I51 I161 I171 I181 I191 [201 r211 l22l i23i I241 1251

Page 117 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

I111 I121 St B Gnff il3j Of%% R&port: [I41 I151 [I61 I171 1181 [I91 1201 1211 i22j I231 [241 1251

Page116toPage117 OlCStan 3394 3395

1

OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COLVSEL

Da:: IF transcnpr:on 2/2/98

WILLIAM BLAINE RICHARDSON, United Szates Ambassador to the United Nations, arranged through his attorney, JUSTIN SIMON, to be interviewed at the UN suite located at THE WATERGATE HOTEL, 2650 Virginia Ave. NW, Washington D.C. Present during the interview were SIMON, ELAINE METLIN an associate of Mr.SIMON at the law firm DICKSTEIN SHAPIRO MORIN & OSHINSKY, 2101 L Street NW, Washington D.C. and ANDREW ATHY, RICHARDSON's personal attorney and friend, 2540 Massachuettes Ave. &W, Washington D. C. All persons present were advised of the purpose of the interview and the official and personal identity of Investigator BASTIN and Associate Independent Counsel PATRICK O'BRIEN. RICHARDSON thereafter provided the following information.

RICHARDSON remembers that probably a few days before he received the resume of MONICA LEWINSKY at his New York office, he had a casual conversation with JOHN PODESTA at the WHITE HOUSE. PODESTA mentioned to him that PODESTA would like for him to interview a person who is moving to New York and is a friend of BETTY CURRIE, the presidents secretary, about a job with the UNITED NATIONS in New York. PODESTA closed the subject matter by saying he was unaware of the person's name, however he would send the resume to his UNITED NATIONS office in New York.

RICHARDSON explained that his usual weekly routine is to travel from New York to Washington D. C. on Tuesday morning in time for a meeting at the WHITE HOUSE in the afternoon. He will overnight at his suite in THE WATERGATE HOTEL on Tuesday night and attend another meeting at the WHITE HOUSE & Wednesday morning and then fly back to New York in the afternoon. He then returns to Washington D. C. on Friday for a Friday afternoon meeting at the WHITE HOUSE. On most of these occasions he sees and talks with JOHN PODESTA.

RICHARDSON recalls when he returned to his New York office his Administrative Assistant, ISABELE WATKINS handed him a resume of MONICA LEWINSKY and told him that this is the resume that JOHN PODESTA and BETTY CURRIE had discussed at the WHITE HOUSE. The resume was faxed to his office from the WHITE HOUSE on or about the same day he arrived in New York. There was then a discussion about whether or not and when to interview LEWINSKY. RICHARDSON asked WATKINS to set up the interview or "put it on

Investigation on l/28/98 at Washington D. C. File # 29D-LR-35063 -. by CI Dare dicta::d 2/3”98 3396

OIC-302a tRe\ R-!9-91)

293-LR-35063

Continuarlon of OIC-302 of William Blaine Richardson .On l/28/98 page 2

the schedule". RICHARDSON recalls that a second discussion may have occurred between himself and JOHN PODESTA. If this discussion took place it was probably on Air Force One on a Latin American trip. RICHARDSON has a vague recollection of a very short discussion wherein PODESTA may have asked if the resume had been received. RICHARDSON said his best recollection is that LEWINSKY had not been interviewed at that time.

RICHARDSON stated that it is not unusual for people to recommend others to him for possible jobs within the UN and he always tries very hard to “extend the courtesy of seeing" each person referred to him.

The interview‘of LEWINSKY was put on the schedule for an interview in Washington D. C. at THE WATERGATE HOTEL on October 31, 1997 for 7:30 am. RICHARDSON recalls being in Washington on Thursday evening before the interview and recalls the following morning MONA SUTPHEN and REBECCA COOPER were at his suite as well as his usual security guards. SUTPHEN went to the hotel lobby to meet LEWINSKY and escort her to the suite.

RICHARDSON met briefly with LEWINSKY and turned the interview over to COOPER. He recalls that he was in and out of the sitting area during the interview. The interview centered around a political appointment in the area of public affairs. RICHARDSON does not recall any discussion of salary but it was to be somewhat consistent with the salary of GENA%REIGO who was leaving the position being considered. RICHARDSON remembers LEWINSKY being poised and effervescent with a good background consisting of work at the WHITE HOUSE and the Pentagon and specifically remembers that she was to take a trip with Secretary of Defense COHEN sometime in the future. The interview was concluded after about 25 minutes and no job being offered.

RICHARDSON recalls a conversation with COOPER in route to Congress after the interview, wherein she indicated that she liked LEWINSKY and considered her a good prospect. Sometime later RICHARDSON had a similar conversation with SUTPHEN and an almost identical response. RICHARDSON indicated to both that he wanted to think about it for awhile. Approximately 7-10 days later he decided to offer her the job told SUTPHEN to call 3397

29D-LR-35353

Cnntinuarwn of OIC-302 of William Blaine Richardson .~n J-/28/98 ,pqe 3 LEWINSKY and offer her the job. SUTPHEN reported back to RICHARDSON that LEWINSKY said she was appreciative but would like some time to think about the job primarily because she was also interested in a job in the private sector.

RICHARDSON confirmed that no other candidates were interviewed for this position.

RICHARDSON recalls that at about this time the IRAQI crisis erupted and he didn't think about LEWINSKY's application for possibly 2 weeks. RICHARDSON at some point remembered LEWINSKY and asked SUTPHEN to contact LEWINSKY and find out if she will take the job or not. SUTPHEN reported back after talking to LEWINSKY that she was not interested in the job because she wanted to pursue a job in the private sector, however she did want to thank RICHARDSON for his assistance.

RICHARDSON believes there was about 2 weeks between the interview and the time when SUTPHEN made the job offer to LEWINSKY. RICHARDSON said he recalls a conversation with BETTY CURRIE which occurred during a chance encounter in the west wing of the WHITE HOUSE sometime probably before SUTPHEN offered the job to LEWINSKY. RICHARDSON knows CURRIE well and they hugged during their greeting and RICHARDSON recalls saying to her 'I interviewed this woman you sent, she's very good". It was a short conversation and she did not respond other than an acknowledgment of his comment. z

RICHARDSON stated that he has not talked to anyone else at the WHITE HOUSE about LEWINSKY and this specifically includes President CLINTON.

RICHARDSON said he does not keep his own calendar and that he does not create notes or files with regard to meetings and especially meeting with potential hires.

On the day of the publicity of the information concerning President CLINTON and LEWINSKY, COOPER called RICHARDSON at 6:30 am and advised him to read the newspaper about LEWINSKY. She also indicated the article said that CLINTON officials met with LEWINSKY for breakfast at the WATERGATE HOTEL 3398

OK-302a (Rev. 8-19-94)

29D-LR-35353

Continuation of OK-302 of William Blaine Richardson .On l/28/98 Page _

which RIGHARDSON said was completely false.

RICHARDSON remembers that probably on the next occasion that he saw PODESTA following the newspaper accounts, PODESTA said to him that he (PODESTA) was sorry he got him into this.

RICHARDSON stated that no one has tried to shape or urge him to change his recollection of these events.

RICHARDSON said that on November 15, 1997 he had a chance encounter with LEWINSKY in New York at the 21 CLUB where his wife was taking him out for a birthday dinner. As he and his wife entered the club, someone spoke to him from across the room. He approached the person and after the person said to him, "I'm MONICA LEWINSKY" he then realized that she was the person who had applied for a job with the UN. She was with an older man and woman who she introduced. There was no discussion about the job or the interview and no mention about JORDAN or anyone else. This was the last time he saw LEWINSKY.

RICHARDSON is described as follows from observation and interview.

Name: William Blaine Richardson Sex: Male Race: Caucasian DOB: 11/15/47 SSAN: Residence:+

Telephone: d1 Title: U. S. Ambassador to the United Nations Telephone: 212-415-4402 3399

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98

OK Deposition

Page 2 to Page _

CONDENSED TRANSCRIPT AND CONCORDANCE PREPARED BY: OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL 1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Suite 490-North Washington, DC 20004 Phone: 202-514-8688 FAX: 202-5 14-8802 3400

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAX(1) Page 5 3 A I understand. _ Q Okay Now. as a wetness before a dul empaneled : lgrand jury. you have a couple of Important nghts and Y .I ;explarn these n hts to all wrtnesses, with the exce tron of : 5: perhaps law en? orcement. case agent types, but a IP percrprent 6‘ rwrtnesses we o throu h this with i-/ TheBrrst ngh 9you have is a right under the Fifth i 3 (Amendment not to rncnmlnate yourself. And do you understand 3 1 that the Frfth Amendment. woujd allow ou to refuse to answer ! 13 1 any questron that ou belreve In good arthY. could subject you f : I ! to cnmrnal lrabrlity;r [::‘ A I understand. ::3; Q And do you have any queshons about your Fifth 1: 4 ;Amendmegt rigk;? !:5; Q Now, in addition to pur Fifth Amendment right, you 1::; have a right to consult with counse And what that means 118 1 for purposes of a grand jury appearance, is that your counsel [ 1 slcant’ actual1 be in the room with us, but our counsel can 1301 be outside t r:e room or avarlable by telep zone. And if at any [*I ittme you want to stop the proceedrngs and go out and consult i23 lwrth our counsel, you are allowed to. Do you understand [z3]that.7y (241 .. A Yes. [ZSI Q And are you represented by counsel?

Page 3 Page 6

ii1 PROCEEDINGS ill A Yes. Q In fact is your counsel Mr. Justin Simon of the I: 1 law firm of Dickstein Shapiro? I41 A Yes, he is. Q In fact today we are at his offices in a .~.! 2 1 conference room at his office. correct? i71 A Thats’ correct.’ iO1 0 And is he present today? [91 A Yes, he is. Ii01 Q And to your knowledge, is he available to you : ,J At this time. the attorneys will identify 1 I: 1 should you have any questions? ; : I themselves and the arties they represent. please. [LZi A Yes, he is available. i“-> MR. BIEN1 RT: My. name is Thomas H. Bienert, Jr. L131 Q Do you have any questions about your right to 131 ~14 jcounsel? 141.. .._ [I51 A No. I I 5 j identity nerselt and swear in tne waness. prease. COURT REPORTER: My name rs Elizabeth Eastman. I i7” i WHEREUPO N 1181 WILLIAM B. RICHARDSON i isj having been called for examination by the Oftice of the tzollndependent Counsel, and having been first duty sworn by the (2 I J notary, was examined and testified as follows: I221 EXAMINATION BY OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT COIJNSEL I231 BY MR. BIENERT: Q Sir, would you go ahead and state your full name A Yes, yes. iz:;for the record?

Page 4 Page 7 111 A My name is William B. Richardson. Q And do you understand that perjury would also [21 Q And what does the 6 stand for? ~:~include not iust aivina affirmative information that IS false [31 A Blaine. EL-A-l-N-E. i 3 j but. for exam le: say?ng ou dont’ have information or you Q Now Ambassador Richardson, before we get into more 14 1 don't recall .Prn ormation a z;out a material fact when, in fact. I: 1 substantive questions. let me just explain sort of the r51you do. [ 6 1 protocol to make sure that you understand it, and have no [61 A Right. [ 7, questions. 171 Q Do YOU understand that? We are operating as though we were appearing before [Bl A I understand. /::a grand jui becs;s$ - Q And do you understand that if you were to commit [lOI t:z;perjury its’ a crime punrshable b u to five years in - our intention here is to show this video to the I 1 I 1 prison and a fine of up to $250.080-P I ii jempaneled grand ury‘ that the Qffice of Independent Counsel il2i’ A Right.’ [ 131 is currently using6 .ere n Washington, D. C. Do you I131 Q Do you have any questions about perjury? 11 I 1 understan; thavt,;? 1141 A No. I151 Q Now I think thats’ all that I have unless you have Q And b a reement with your counsel, based on I i 2 ; some auestions for me? I :7” 1 your request that we db it at a place other than the i17j A No, that’s fine. 1 le 1 courthouse because your schedu e and some of the matters I181 Q Actually, the last thin Im’ going to mention, ( 191 ou are involved in, we agreed that we would do that. Is [ 191 although ou have done an excellen8.job so far is, because 120 1 rhat your understanding? (20 1 its’ rm o ant that the court reporter be able to get I211 A Yeah. and I appreciate it. ,2llever$-hrng’ down, number one, we want to make sure that we Q Now, everything I explain to you then, as far as I 22 I respond to everything audibly. So, use words instead of [ :: 1 the rocedures and the way we are operating, is oing to be 133jgestures. _ - _ ,zrlas tl!ough we are appearing before a grand jury. II0 you [241 And, number two, Ill’ do my best not to speak when ! 2 5 1 understand that? (3 3 1 you are speakrng. and I would ask that you do your best not

OIC-Starr Page 2 to Page 7 3401

BSA Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4/30/98

Page 8 Page 11

j i 110speak when myself or Mr. Lemer is speaking. Do you That would consMute my lmmedlate personal sta_ff c2 1 understand? i_. tn New York. I also have a personal staff, or a staff in an jj: A Now, should I look at you when I answer. or should :: office in Washtn ton. D. C ;; i I look at the camera? I; Q dell. let’s sra with New York for just a second It’s actually whatever you are comfortable with. I : 5-and then we’ll shifl down IO Washington. ‘i2 i uess my suggestron would be, assume that the camera would be Ii A Okay. i 7 1 e persons In the grand ury And so it’s really wha!ever ,- Q Let’s talk about. as far as phone numbers. what is :s)ku findmIst naturalani- i 3: the phone number that someone would use to get IS! A Okay. [ 5. residence at the Waldorf Astona? Is it somethrn :iO! 0 -comfortable. ; I’, rsonal to your residence. ill1 A All right.. 111:E aldorf Astoria number and i1:1 Q All right, sir, why don’t you go ahead and tell us [ 1: : connected to your room? ; 13!what your title is: how Ion you have been Ambassador to the li3: A We have a direct line. .~r I 4 I United Nahons and what w at entails. what vour duttes are? [14. Q Okay. And what is that number? A Okay. I am the American Ambassador to the United 115: A And that number is-. Now, you can also i :zi Nations. I was appointed in February of 1997 and I’ve served [ 16: et in touch with me through the switchboard at the Umted 1171in that capacity for approximately 14 months now. It IS a 117: 8 atrons. the U.S. Mission switchboard. They can contact my t~sjCabinet+_vel position based rn New York City with a bt of [ 1s: telephone. Another way is - ( i 91 responsrbtldies overseas and in Washington,, D.C. 119: Q And what is that number. bv the wav? I’01 0 And by whom were ou a pointed? i2Oi A I don’t know 1211 A I was a pointed bJ &es&t Clinton. 1211 Q Okay. It’s just the general U.N. number? [::I Q And is Phis subje to confirmation b an one? 1221 A The general UN. number. 1231 A Yes. It’s subiect to confirmation bv fyYhe .S. 1231 Q All riaht. i24iSenate. i24i -. A Another way that I am contacted is through what is I251 Q So, you were, in fact, confirmed by the Senate? f251called the - at my residence you are talking about?

Page 9 Page 12

Ii1 A A hundred to nothing. 111 Q Yes. Q I think that’s a confirmation. Now ou mentioned IZ! A Is through what is wiled the State Department !:!vou were based in New York. Why don’t you go a 5:ead and give [ 3 iOperations Center, where if the Secretarv of State. for i 4 j us your addresses? j 4 j instance, wants to talk to me at m residence. she’would call First let’s talk about what is our work address tslthe State Department Operations k enter and they would contact Iziand what is your residence address in il--ew York? - t61rne to my Mission. 171 Q Now, you used the Secretary of State as an example I a1 for that. Is. that,method,of getting ahold of you typically [ 91used by fairly high-rankrnspersons who are trying to get tlolyou, lake th; Sev”e’edh”lyof ate or - [?!I And I live, my residence is at the Waldorf Towers, 1111 r!2lthe 0 It’s the traditional residence for the [12! Q - is that how just about anybody could get - [ 131 American Ambassador. And the address is East 50th Street for (131 [ 1I 1the residence. [I41 “0 Nq.- in no.touch with you? !151 0 Where on East 50th Street? A Just high-rankrn high-ranking. Secretary of 1161 A 50 East - it’s 50 East 50th. It’s right next to i:z;State, Undersecreta Nationa 8,Security Advrsor. 1171the Wakforf Astoria Hotel. 1171 Q And 2 ou know the number for that? I181 A Yeah. I&+~ t191 AQ &Lhat’s a ashrng on number?

,--1,,#?I t211 6 k;;d‘ io they have some sort of a pager that you A I can’t recall. 1221 have. or do thev have other methods based on oeoole wha are Q But if we find the UN.. we will find the U.N. iijjwith youthat they get ahold of? i2 I jMission? A Usually they will - the call from the State 1251 A It’s right in front of it. ~~~~Operations Center makes rt easier for the person initiating

Page 10 Page 13 Q What is the differential, if any, between the U.N. (1 jthe call on me, like they ma be on an airplane. So. they’ll i:;and the UN. Mission? t2 1call the Operations Center x at WIII then track me down. A Well there’s 185 countries that are represented at Another way that I can be contacted is through my I:!the United Nations and we are one of the 185. So what the i:;searrity agents. If it’s an emergency and I’m not with - I [ 51 U.S. Mission is, it’s the American Embassy at the United [ 5 Idon’t have I don’t carry a pager. [ 6 1Nations. And In the embassy at the Mission. we have all [Cl h You don’t carry a cell phone? j7jtypes of representatron at the Unrted Nabons: the pot&al A No hard1 at all. Sometimes when I go into the t 81 staff. there s Secunty Counul staff, there’s Economrc and t i &cur&y Council at the Y.n&d Nations 1’11take a tii I g1 Socral Council staff. And other agencies are represented at ( 9I ceil phone. tlojthe U.S. Mission. Q And is this a particular cell hone that is Q Now speakin of staff tell us what your immediate ~:~~particubr to you with a set number, or mig g t the cell phone i::;staff is at the U.N. Mission in % ew York. [ 12.1change from time to time? 1131 “0 ;ou_rnean the personal staff? [131 A No, it’s a set number. I141 1141 Q And what is the number of your cell phone? A Well I have - under me I have four ambassadors: 1151 A I don’t know. I:zjPeter Burteigh. whd is the chief ambasgador who is a career Q Is it one you got through work or is it one that [17~ofticer Nancy Soderbe who is my ambassador for ::76iwould be in your name? c18 1 peacekeeping; Richard % klar, who IS my ambassador for reform 1181 A One I got through work. (13 jand management; and a woman by the name of Betty King, who is t191 Q Oka . And by work, the U.N. Mission? 120jmy ambassador for Economic and Social Council. I201 A The L .N. Mission, yeah. I hardly use that though. t211 Also on my immediate staff is - I have two 1211 Q Okay. Now, what would be the number that someone ~22 lexecutive assistants. One is lsabelle Watkins, who has been t22jwould call to get ou at your office in the U.N. Mission? t23jwith me for 10 years; Mona Sutphen, who is a career Foreign 1231 A &II the, the number of my immediate staff the __ (141 Service Officer who IS m executive assistant; and a 124jnumber that I usually call when I want to talk to lsabelle is ’ [ z 51 secretarial employee by r he name of Deb Nelson. :25]1-21241%404. That’s the one that I generally use to call

Page 8 to Page 13 OIC-Starr 3402

BSA Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4/30/98

Page 14 Page 17 1: 1my r-mediate staff It’s either Deb or Isabelle. ,. 0 Okay Now, let’s talk about your relationship with r-” Q And IS that the number that persons are generally i~icerta~n peocc. and we will go ahead and we’ll start with i 3 :grvet !o call you at our office? [ 3:President Cinton. iJi A No. r thank they are given another number. I !4. Yes j 51 thlnK !nere’s a -,it’s another stmtlar number. [5; Q Why don’t you describe your relationsnrp with hrm7 !6! Q Okay. .ls.it your understanding that there are !6 1How Ion hare you known him? How would you charactenae the { 71 different eitensFey wIthIn your lmmedlate - (7 1relatrons 4*ID? How often do vou talk? 191 i91 Q - office suite? [lo: A There are several extensions. I!11 Q And ou would have an extension, and then I assume : I 21 Ms. Watkins would t! ave an extension, and Ms. Sutphen - 113! !l4i A0 S_utphen.et cetera, correct? !I51 A Yeah. Everybody would have their own extension. (161 Q Okay. Now, let’s talk about Washington. I171 A R’ht Q &?I y h o n’t you give us your residence address, phone i:~~nur&ers and your office address and phone numbers here in tzo]Washtngton? A Okay. My office address, I have an office at the I:: 1Department of State. And that office is on C Street and tz3]it’s the big Departmant of State Buildin It’s the sixth 124lfloor. And in that office, I have four sta ?f members 1241 - But we have a good mutual respect and affection for ~2sjcurrentty that are permanent employees, and I believe a [ 2 s 1each other.

Page 15 Page 18

111couple that are - one is secretarial and the other is a 111 0 Now, let me make sure. 1’11break this down a [z]loaned officer. 12 1little to make sure we all understand it. And my Washington office is headed by a woman by (31 So. in the 1992 - let’s sa the first term of the i:ithe name of Rebecca Coo r. And on that staff are an IsI indiwdual by the name of t!?avtd Goldwin; Irma Martinez; I61BUF Laird. he is the loaned employee from the Department [7]of nergy. And, let’s see. That’s it for now. (61 Q And what is the phone number? r91 ; INF;‘t_know. I101 I111 A Or I don’t remember. 0 Let me ask you this, because it raises another [ 121 to know him quite i ::iquesbon. Obviousty I assume when you are in New York it’s 1131 Q And would this have primarily been in the first [ 141 not unusual for you to call down to your Washington office. tlr]term or second term? ]~s]or at least to speak to people on the phone in the Washington iI51 A First term. [16]Oft?ce? I161 Q First term? 1171 A Right. (171 A Yeah. Q Is your typical ractice when you are in your [I81 Q And then ou indicated that you helped him in his i:i;office. whether it be here in “p”‘ingtoyr in New York, to [I 91reelection which obvious i: would have been 98? rzolplace all of your own calls. or do ou ty ~cally ask your [201 A And I also helped in his reel&ion in 38. 12 11 ~eaetary or someone like Isabel e Wat ns to place a call r21i czz]foryou and then they connect you, and then you get on the 1221 his campaign in New Mexico. r23]phona? I231 ou meetwith the President? i24j’ A Yeah. I always have somebody place my calls. [24 I Let’s just take frcrn January 1 of ‘9 as soft of a benchmark. [251 Q So, is that one of the reasons why you suspect you [251So. we are talking about roughly the last year, year-plus.

Page 16 Page 19 [ I 1might not be as familiar with the numbers? [ 11How regubtiy do yw meet with the President? [21 $ $o$.mean like phystcslly? I31 A During the Iraq crisis we met with him a bL his I : i whole national secunty team I woub say there were [ 61 national secunty related meetings. seven or eight in which [ 7 1he was directty nvotved. (81 Q What is the timeframe of the Iraq crisis, roughly? A Well, it was, it was October, November, December, t:z;January. In other words, I will get depending on [Ill Q of ‘97 and into ‘98? ~~~~availabilii, a different room each bme I come, which A Yeah, into ‘98. October yeah. October, November, [ I 3 1averages about once a week. f::;December. January. But we also had t!neeti s -the national So, I use that office or that suite for meetings, [ 14 1security team frequently meets with the Pres!%e nt whenever t::;for my intelli ence briefings. and just to basically IIS] there IS a foreign policy issue. So we had other meetings ;;;;overmght beyore I’m mown&on. [ 16]with him before the Iraq crisis on Bosnia, on China, on 0 So, by that en, IS R accurate then that if [ 17 I Mexico, and many other issues. t I B] someone wanted to et in touch with you b phone at the [I61 So, ! am frequently in the Cabinet Room with the [ 191Watergate, the wou just call the general K otel number - 1 i 9 1national secu t201 A ceah%’ Q r%~~!s~~eve you indicated you often come to 1211 - and ask for your room? if:; Washington. Usus& you are overnight at least once a week. I221 g Yeah. That’s right. [ 22 1On average, let% say In the last year, how often do our 0 And would the room typically bs under Ambassador [ 2 3 I ITWetlngSinvoke meeting with personnel at the Wh’ xe House? i : : ; Richardson’s name? I24 ] When you come here on avera e once or twice a week, do you t251 A Yes. right. r2s]usually have meetings at the W%ite House? _-

OlCStan Pagei t0 Page 19 3403

BSA Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4J30/98 XMAX 4,

Page 20 Page 23 A Yeah, the are all - yeah. The reasons I come I (l Icalled - ii would say 75 percent of Yhe reasons that I come to Washin toi (71 A Yeah, he just calls the office ; 1are meetmgs at the White House, In the White House Situa PIon I31 Q In the same manner as anyone else? 4 1Room where the national security advisors ather usually A Yeah. 5 !Tuesdays and Frida s. Tuesday afternoon, Friday afternoon. 6 IThere is a Wednes dyay morning breakfast of myself and the 7 1Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense, National Yeah. I, I, as I said. I don’t think it’s haooeneo. . 8 1Security Advisor. 191 that frequently. So there is a pattern of about three times that I 0 Now, are there other persons - and I’m oing !: zicome to Waihinqton for those meetings. And those meetinqs [ iii confine this solely to persons who are working in the W I! ite [ 111House, assistants, aides, et cetera. to the President - but 112lwho would be the persons in the White House, since ou’ve [ 13 1been Ambassador, that you do meet with or speak WI .rh, with [ I 4 1 any frequency at all? Cl51 A In the White House? iI61 0 Yes, sir. A Well, Sandy Berger. the National Security Advisor, i:ilalrnost once a day; Jim Steinberg. who is his Deputy National [ 191 Security Advisor; and - on a frequent basis, that s about .“_.Y ~2oj~ewrity team, 10 times. L L ” , IL Q And since we were talking about the entirety of I.211 Q And then I’m assuming obviously you will speak to I::; January, from Janua of ‘97 to the present. is it accurate r22lother people on occasion as a need arises? I mean, that’s rzslthat most of those eig.x t to 10 meetings would have happened 123lcertainty not the universe of persons at the White House that [rrlin late - [241you s@?ak - L251 A Yes. 1251 A Yeah.

Page 21 Page 24 (11 with correct? Ul 2 yhat’s’right. That’s Q What I would like to Tht.o. and I’m going to tell you i :i now and one of the things we can discuss with your attorney 1sldurihg a break is,, I noticed that when we got some production [6]from your office, it includes a scheciuk? for months of ;;ign& but it did not include October, November or A Not that much. He’s been to New York twice and my r And I’m not sure if that’s because we didn’t ask ii!wife and I have entertained him and the First Ladv with other [glfor it. or if there is another reason for it. :io j uests at our residence. I’ve been to State dinneis. But one of the thin 1118 omebmes after a national security meeting, I’ll go into his 12 1office and we’ll chat briefly. I131 But I wouldn’t say we have a social relationship. I141 Q Now, when you say he’s been to your house in New 15 1York twice, I’m assuming that is twice all totalled, not just 161 in the last eat? ‘171 x Yeah, yeah, because I’ve only held the job a year. I 17 1newspaper accpunts and 161 Q That’s right since ‘97, I guess. [ 1FJ 1tell it seems to identify where you probably were. And with 191 A Yes. since ‘97. [ 19I that caveat, what I’m Just going to do is sort of tell you Cl Now, how often do you talk by telephone - and rzolwhat the press accounts have suggested to us, and ask you if :!iagain let’s say since you‘ve been m this postion as U.N. [zilthat SOUrIdS nght. so that we can Just sort of bracket in zz &nba&sador - with the President? ~221some ofthe times. i23j A Ve infrequently. A Although I think for our. for purposes of 1241 Q ByThat less than once a month? I::;elcped.. Ithinkwedidsubmita rist.ascheduleofthe I251 A Less thbn once a month. yeah. c251general9, ays in those months where I was.

Page 22 Page 25 Q Can ou estimate how many times ou believe you’ve 0 Okay. And to my knowledge, I think we got the one 1: ;spoken to him b te lyephone since you’ve been Am g assadoR Iiimonth. A E!y telephone? You mean that I’ve initiated or he’s MR. LERNER: We got two particular days and we got, ii ; initiated? i:ias far as I know, the month of Janua But that was in a 151 0 Either way. [s 1binder that I saw. Ma be there are a7.. d&onal pages. 161 A Three times. [61 BY MR. BIl!NERT: [71 Q Now,- Q And I’m not aware of it either. But what we will 181 A Maybe, maybe, maybe a little more. Not certainly iii do is we will address that with your counsel. The bottom .-.r9 I on a reaular basis. ~9~lineisifthereismoreofaschedule- ” Q Now when you have a tele hone conversation, on i:?;these few times whdn you’ve had them wit g the President, if not aware of it. et in touch with the President, how do you go

Usually what 1’11do is I’ll have lsabelle contact I :: i Nancy Hemreich or I will be. or I’ll call, or somebod will I 161call the White House signal operator. But it’s usua &*I [ 171 usually have somebody place the call. Q But your understanding is that the call would I:i;usually befad;;;pgh a White House operator? [ZOI I211 Q Or someone like Nancy Hemreich? have any understandin as to President has contacte 8 (241 A Right. [2s]you by phone, how has that happened, do you know? He just I251 Q And I just want to make sure we are clear on the -

Page 20 ro Page 25 OIC-Stan 3404

BY Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAX(S)

Page 26 Page 29 : .: hmes of thr. : : 1the First Lady. .-:_I Q And how did $0~ get back and forth7 Did you Cl %?fwst of all IS it accurate that you do : 31 actually fly on Air Force One. ; recall taking a - that there were Issues relating to the A Yeah. We were on Air Force One. And the trip went : 3 Congo in r;ugh October of 1997? ii jto Venezuela. went to Brazil and Argentina. ._I Ves. 0 And as far as the persons who were actuali ._ 0 And that at some point in October of 1997 you i y: travelin on Air Force One with you. would that have rnclu cyed i. actually wrt toY;; Congo? J ;Mr. PO8 es:. Pyre;dent Clinton, the Ftrst Lady - : i91 ::7 Q All right. And do the dates, the dates that we i’.O] Q and the other Cabinet members? i : ; have would be that you were in the Congo or left for the ;1:1 A Secretary of State, Secretary of Commerce, and I : r : Congo on approxtmately October 23rd and returned somewhere ! 121 other Cabinet members. i : 3: around October 3Oth? i131 Q Is it possible that you would have drscussed wrth !:a: A Yeah, that sounds ri ht. 114 1Mr. Podesta the Issue of this person appl ing to your oftice, Q And then similarly, t I! ere was a trip to Latin [ : 51who later turned out to be Monica Lewrns K y, at some point iiiiAme&a. I 16J dunng that trip? [1-: A Right. [I71 A Yeah. I think, I think there was an instance where [I31 Q And the dates that we have from press accounts is [ 181 John asked me if I’d received her resume. And I remember [ 191 that the trip for Latin America was roughly October 13th [ 191respondin that I didn’t know. rz r : throug h Opbe+;sth? t201 9 do remember when John first raised this person 12:: tzllwith me, I asked John, well, what is her name. And John (22: Q Does that sound about right? !22]said. I don’t know. So, this was pm-October, or pre-trip, a t23: A That sounds right. fz3]few, or._ a week before the trip. 124: Cl Now, what were some of the other issues that were But I believe we drd have a conversation John and [Z5: going on in the October timeframe? You mentioned the Iraq if:;l, on the plane where he said, he asked me whether I had

Page 27 Page 30 :::crisis had heated u correct? [ 11received her resume, and I said I didn’t know. A Yea I? The Iraq crisis heated up; the Congo issue. I-11 Q Welt. let’s go ahead now and what I’ll do is, when I; j At the time right after the Latin America trip. the President 13 1we have conversabons. as best we can we’ll try to isolate : 4: wanted me to work on the fast track issue. So, I spent some 14 leach conversation. L5 : time in October and November working that here. 151 A Okay. And then in the U.N. Security Council, there’s just 161 Q And go through as much as you recall. So, let’s i-“; like an issue a day. Every morning we meet. But the Iraq ! 7 1start with the first conversation that you believed ou had ! z : issue was starting to heat up. So,, predominantly Iraq. fast i 9Iwith Mr. Podesta, which would have been before r he tnp to : 3: track, and then, well, the Congo tnp took some of those r 9 I South America. Where was it. as best you can recall, and who I I 01 was present? Is it accurate that at least during your term as o issue were among -

I171 Q - you and Mr. Podesta? 1181 A Just the two of us. I191 Q And what, as best you can recall, did he tell you? I201 A . I think his words were, there’s a person I’d like I 2 i 1 you to intervrew for a posrbon in New York: this person 1s r221movtng there and shes a friend of Be Cum’s. And I t22lsaid, well, what’s her name. He says. ?r don’t know, but I’d ~24lappredate it if ou woukf just intenoew her. (251 Q bkihesa y anything about what level employee she

G

Page 28 Page 31 Q Now let’s go ahead and focus and obviously the t I I was, whatp bao&ground was, anything - I : i issue that we want io address here is the intetkiiin of I21 [ 31 Monica Lewinsky b yourself and members of your o%i ce. and i3j along those lines? t 4 :the eventsAbefogumunng.8. and after that. [II g No. Dtdn’t say anything. 15: Q Okay. Did he give you an indication of any kind Cl So why don’t you go ahead and tell us. what is the i z lof timeframe within which he wanted you r o talk to this f f i first time that ou learned about someone that you later [7]penon? 19f learned. or at r he bme. learned. was Monica Lewinsky? [El A No. A Well I believe that the first time this matter [91 Q Did he use any words of a descriptive nature, c:z]came u was in one of the meetings at the White House, or 11o 1 indicating whether she was a good or a bad employee? [ 11lsomewl!ere in the vicin% of where we have our meetings in t 12 j the White House. John odesta. who is the Depu Press t13:Secreta asked me if I would interview a person 3;t at was a (141 friend of % etty Curries for a position in New York. because fls;this person according to John, was moving to New York. fhat was the first time. I believe it was sometime ii: i in early October. r 17 1from friends, from my wife. You know, this is very common in Q Now the trip to Latin America, who all was on that [ i 81 my position. I: ij trip. as far as what was the U.S. delegation, or who was Q Now then as I understand it is it accurate that t:o!there? i:ijyou woukfn’t have shy other recollection of any discussions A Who wasn’t on it? Well John Podesta was on it. I [ 2 I 1with Mr. Podesta, about this as of yet unnamed applicant, if: i was on it. Six other Cabinet members: It was a huge 122Iuntil possibly dunn the South American trip? tz2:delegation. 1231 A Yea 4 , that’s right. 124: 0 Was the President on the trip? Q Now where do you believe the conversation on the 125: A Oh, yeah, yeah. He was head of the delegation, and fG:;South American trip’would have occurred?

OlCStarr Page 26 to Page 31 3405

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMALI!

Page 32 Page 35 :I! A It was on the plane, I believe. We were fly~ shows a Tuesda [: ~sorn&wnere and he asked me. you know, when you’re mov-g 13 1aroL-c the plane. I41 Q Was anyone else a participant or listening r- on f 51 this conversation? 15: Q And what I’ll tell you. just agarn as a point of I61 A No. No 16; reference, IS that the ress accounts that we have found :7, Cl What. as best vou can recall. did he sav, to Ivou at ! 7: Indicate that you wou Pd have left for the Congo on the 23rd i s j that tme? [?: A Yeah, I left right after. yeah, right after I got I9i A He sad, have ou gotten the resume from tr s i 91 back from Latrn America. i iolpemc.. and I said. I don’t thrn r SO or I don’t know. IlO1 Q .--.‘*ii Q At that oornt did he identifv. the oerson’s. na-a? t i 1;about the actions. ‘i?] Li No. ’ [ 111your gethng back from outh America and your getting this il3; AQ ;Jd you ask if he knew the person’s name? [ 13 1resume, we’ll say. rouqhlv on the 21 st or sometime 1141 [ 14 1thereafter. Okay? - . L151 Q Was there anything of a descriptive nature aoout I151 Tell us about who Ms. Watkins is and what her rlslthe cerson? [16]dUtieS are. ii7j A No. I171 A Okay. lsabelle Watkins has been my executive Q Did you interpret his statement at that point as [ 18Iassistant for about 10 years. She was my chief of staff when 1:i 1any lund of a recommendation of the person? 1191I was I” the Congress and.1 brou ht her with me as my I201 A No. t2ojexecutrve assrstant to the job, to 3, er present job at the Q Anythizrther that ou can recall about the [z 11Unrted Natrons. Her maln aSSlgnment is my schedule and my iif idiscussion with Mr. P ta on Arr ? orce One? ““pf rsonal affas-s wlthrn the office, which are very small. [231 A No. That’s about it. [2x] t s just mainly scheduling is what she does. Q Now, you would have returned on approximately the - Q Do you believe, sir that ou mi ht have told Ms. Is : i 19th of October from the South American trip. Does that I::;Watkins upon returning to your off& a x er the 8 outh America

Page 33 Page 36 [ I 1sound ab?t rigyht? r 11trip to, words to the effect of, to keep an eye out for a eah rt was about - we left I think around the 121 resume comin from Podesta’s office on an applicant? ._,;:: 12th~~ and then. veah: it was about a week the. Yeah. I31 A gfeah I think so. Yeah. Q And i can tell you based on ’ ress accounts at Q And at this point, I assume you still would not I:; least. that the press accounts indicate that t c:.e tnp - In I:; have known the name of the tslfact, we have a press schedule relating to the trip of the 1’51 A R’ ht I woulfirsk%~v?& name. ~71 President and it indicates that the trip was to Venezuela, Q O?ay. And do you believe it’s accurate sir that i 9!Brazrl and Argentina. ii j after not hear-in anything from Ms. Watkins about the ‘matter. 191 A Right. 191 that perhaps a %av or two later YOUwould have asked her [lOI Q Sunday, October 12th through Sunday October 19th. 11o 1again about the matter? _ ill1 A That sounds right. Ill1 A No. I think I just asked once. I think, you know, Q Now, if you would have gotten back on Sunday the t121we were pretty bus then. ii:; 19th. is it accurate that your next day in the office would [I31 Q Well if Ms. Watkins told us that she recalls that (141 have beenAMon;teay: the ZOth? I 141 ou asked about it once, and then asked to keep an eye out [ISI 11511 or d roughly, and then a few da s later asked her if she Cl61 0 And that would have been in the office in New York? [16]had gotten It and when she sa d no, asked her to call A Well we tan&ad at Andrews Air Force Base. Yeah, I I 171 Podesta’s office about the matter, do you believe that that i :l i normally would have - I probably woutd have gone to New tiejis inaccurate or - t I 9 1York I don’t recall. 1191 Q And wbars the next thing, you recall in terms of t201 “0 No.- you don’t - ~:~~thii applicant, who turned out to be Monrca Lewinsky? (211 A No, I think that may be possible. Yeah. A I remember a resume appeari on my desk and I Q Would you have an reason to uestion Ms. Watkins’ ~::~beiii it had been brought in by Is&elks Wa ns from my I:: i account of tba I In fact that’s wha r she told usq? t24jstaff. And I think that it was shortly, shortly after the A 4;. o. no. No, I just - she takes care of things r25lLatin American trip. I::;likethat. AncfIsaid.youknow,keepaneyeoutfortbis

Page 34 Page 37 0 What we witi do is we will place in front of you a [ 1]thirg. And that’s all there is. It may have been that I I: !copy of the resume I bet&e we got from your office. I t2 1asked again. That may be the case. c3 1 uess this will be our first exhibit. We are going to call Q And I guess that does lead me to the question that t4&sWBR-1. I:; I wouM have, which is, it was a busy time for you, correct? 151 (Exhibit WBR-1 was marked I51 A Ve busy. I61 for identification.) Q An 2 at the time when you were in the U.S. forthis. (71 BY MR. BIENERT: i7”iit kooks like, ma be a three-day riod before you left for Q If you take a took at that, sir, does that appear ;;;~m~~o, you K ad a heck of a Ret of things to deal with, Iii to be the r~su~e~~t ou would have gotten? [lOI tioj A R’ ht. Q And do\$ zEr$kz !!l$e&hand comer. Q If? is in fact true that ou did ask Ms. f :: 1there is a fax indication. that indicates 10121 7 at 3:09 in I:: i Watkins a second time to check in on rhe resume and to i I 3 I the afternoon? [ 13 1actual call Podesta’s office about it. why do you think you A Yeah. [ 141 would 3: ave done that? AQ I151 A Okay. Let me, let me talk to my - can I take a tl6]break? Q 1171

ii9i A Yeah. ~:~~therecord, on my clock it’s Q Does it sound about ht to you that this woutd 1201break while Ambassador Richardson discusses w i:i;have been somethin that ou would ave been seen around (Whereupon, the deposition was recessed from 1064 a.m. t22lapproximately the P&t of &ober? ’ i::;until lo:08 a.m. I231 A Is that a Sunday? What’s the 21st? MR. B IENERT: We are back on the record and on my 1241 0 That’s a Tuesday. In fact, if you look, it - i::ictock. it’s about 10:08. 1151 A Yeah. f251 BY MR. BIENERT:

Page 32 fo Pige 37 OIC-Stan 3406

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 xw.1.-1

Page 38 Page 41 Q Now, we were talking about what, if anything, might [ : ! right away or I don’t know if I asked for a second time ii : have transprred between your getbn back from the South 1:: - -I do know that the resume appeared on my desk J.-d : 2;Amencan tn and pnor to recetvmg tR e resume that we have [ 31 I said to Isabelle. I have told John Podesta I’d rntervrew !:.marked as&R-l. id lthrs person. set It UD. 15: A Right. iji Q Now, you rndrcated to us a little while ago the: !; Q At this bme. it was an active. busy time for you, i 6 1you frequently get requests from people who want you to [ - i correct? I 71 intervrew someone, correct7 13: A It was busy, but it was not the most intensive i 2; period. The Iraq issue did not explode until the end of 11’2.October. It was busy. But Iraq had not started to percolate [ 1: : then. It was startmg with some roblems. But I recall it c12 1 wasn’t until I got back from the rzongo that it really ! I 3 ! exploded. [14: Q Which would have meant at the end of - 115; ; End of October. 1161 - very end of October. i17i A Yeah.. Q Now, and at this time, and again we are focusing on [ :E 1the timeframe from say, October 20th to October, say, 22nd. rzoi A Yeah. (2:) Cl When you got back from South America and before you c12 1 left for the Con o okay? t23: A ii’ht. Q tn!erms of this potential afflicant that Mr. I::;Podesta had mentioned to you, you didn’ now the name of the

Page 39 Page 42 t I japplicant. correct? L11 interview, or I’m asked by somebody if I can ive advice to [2! A Right. 121 this person, very high-level pes asking me Po do this. And Q You didn’t know anything about the background of [ 3 1I think KS part of my own. I tx Ink. respect for others that I : ;’the applicant? I 4 1ask you to interview people. IS! A Right. [51 And also, rf there’s a possibility that I would 0 You didn’t know what level employee this person was [ 61 hire the person, I interview them myself. I insist on that, I4 ] hoping to be correct? [ 7 1even the bwest level. [B! A ’ Was this before I saw the resume? 0 In the time period from say September of 1957 [91 0 Yes, sir. itjthrough the end of January of 1998 how man A Because we had a vacancy in my Washington office. a lolpersonalty interview as possible emplo ees o t e UN.? ~:~!slot that I had wanted to move to New York that was outreach- Ill A Since I was - well. I’d Iiz e to gofy backIFpIe to d’d y”- [II ; oriented. And so I knew there was, there was a vacancy. Now 12 lprobably December when my appointment was announced. [ 13I- but I did not know until I saw the resume about the 131 Q December of - [ I 4lqualifications of Ms. Lewinsky. I didn’t even know who it [I41 $ “of”; ;g;o that? t15twas until I saw the resume. [151 [I61 Q Well, first of all. when you say outreach-oriented, I161 A Of’98. yeah. t17lwhat do you mean? 1171 A Well, specifically. I had hired a new chief of 1181 z ik>;ny have I interviewed? People? I:t;staff who wanted to bring somebody in that could do liaison .~~.1191 r201with the United Nations community, to try to sell the U.N. [201 A About 75. 121tWe were having roblems etting fundin for the U.N. She I211 Q And I’m assuming, sir, that a large number - [22]warMd some tnx?y that cou %..Itarson wrth.%. usmess groups. She A Seventy-five, I don’t - I’d say 80 to 75 with, ycu t 23lwanted somebod that would aiso help me + advance for my i::;know, a hrge number at the beginning when I was first [24 JtnPS. She want d somebody that was a publu afhtrs enaM 124lstaffing out 1251 This was the same posttton that a woman by 1251 Q And is it accurate. sir, that upon your appointrrrnt

____ Page 40 Page 43 o in my Washington office had. We wanted to I 1 I as U.N. Ambassador, it’s part of what you do or are entiiled I: $r~% %%le bii. move it, move it to New York. [z 1to do anyway, to go ahead and choose your entire staff, Q Now, prior to getting and seeiq the resume of Ms. I 3 I correct? I: i Lewinsky. however, you had no idea what leve appltcant she I41 A That’s right. t5lmight be. correct? 151 Q And so most of these people would have been peopl I61 A Yeah, that’s right. [ 6 I that in the hte 1998Iearly 1997 stage you were interviewing Q And to your knowledge the person that Mr. Podesta f7jto et our staff in lace so that you could begin your work Ii 1had been referring to could have been an executive level [s]as 9rx. . Ambassa dpor, correct? [ 91 person, correct? A That’s right. and I hired every one of them. I dd A Yeah. [ :iinot - I took referrals from agencies from the White House So, in terms of this unknown, un-background-kncnvn I 111from the Congress, from the outs& community. and I hired I 12 Ievery slngk person. I made the decision on every single 1131person on my staff. Q Now let’s o back to the timeframe of the latter ! ::! art of ‘97. early ‘98: So, % t’s say September of ‘97 I 16 I,P hrough January of 1998. How many pe le have ou personally I 17 I intennewed dunn that three or four-mont T penod ?or a ce at the U.N.? All right. September of ‘97? 1201 Q Yes, sir. i’m ‘ust taki a month right before tf-e 121 ILewinsky interview through j anuary “91o 98. A Well I don’t know if I did. I m$ht have done [221 A Five, six, seven. I:: i that in other words’ can ou et the resume. I don’t know f231 Q Okay. And who were the other people that yo; [24 lif I did. I think I asked. w 1:en 9 got back, I said, did we [24]interweWed? [ 25 1 ever get that resume. And I don’t know whether we got it I251 A I don’t know. I mean, 1’11get it for you, if you _-

OlC-Starr Page 38 to Page 43 3407

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XYAX(8) Page 44 Page 47 : : vwant. : -did you conclude should be done? .Ti-. Q Okay Well, do an names come to mind? Well. I looked at the resume ‘3’ $ l&nti;lJ~nuary of 019 ? :4: 'j] A OL’98. I mean, no names come to mind. jc,: Q What were the positions that you were interviewing r 71 these people for? isi A They were similar. They were press jobs. They I 3;were jobs in the press ofhce. where most of my vacancies a.schedule. as I told John Podesta. an rntervrew with her. I : 1o 1 occur. There was one position in the protocot office t,hat I : i ,.told John I’d intervrew her, t to schedule it. And I think ! : ! 1remember intet-vrewmg for. There were rrtrons marnly on my cthat’s what that’s what she 3 rd. : ;z I-- well. Rebecca Cooper. I think I hired er dunng that Q Do you believe. sir. that you would have called Ms : 13lpenod. And, yeah, Rebecca Cooper, September. : : 31 Lewinsky at some point in the timeframe of, after receiving :141 Q Now, Rebecca Cooper sat in with you - : : 4 I the resume on the 21 st but before you left to go to the Congo [151 ; : 51 on the 23rd? Aa Yeah-on the interview of Ms. Lewinsky. correct? $ ye;.mean me calling her? Ii61 :?6:. _ Cl71 A Right. .-,I I181 Cl So, she would have at least been hired by that i:31 A No, I don’t think so. I mean, lsabelle would set 1 f 9: tme. correct?

i;;jLewinsky? a 1241 A Well, I know I selected her over the summer, but i24i - A ’ Well there - yeah. I mean, there were instances tzslshe went through, you know, her security clearance. She had ; 25 1 where in the past, if I was seeking somebody, I probably

Page 45 Page 48 i : 1been working for me about a month, I think, or maybe a little [2jmore. MR. BIENERT: Just as an aside I uess we are I.?; havin a hammerin session. I’m sure it will ma1 e our tape i 51 soun 8 good. It will %e better than my coughing. BY MR. BIENERT:

iJ1 A I don’t think it’s the case, because lsabelle sets ! 9 1up my meetings. ;131 Cl Okay. I’m going to go ahead and use the next ::: !exhibit. which will be Government’s Exhibit WBR-2, and I’m : 12I oin to place it - the court reporter will give you a cop !:%9 ~31 ut I m gorng to let you look at it while we are waiting, ar i:clmY COPY !lSl (Exhibit WBR-2 was marked ;?6i for identification.) !I71 BY MR. BIENERT: I’m going to hand you that. Sir I’ll represent to is a phone record that we receiveb via subpoena rts to indicate calls from your office. Do you see .--, ~-. - 1221 A Yeah. Q Okay. Now if you bok at the record, it shows Zne. two. three four five c&s. Do you see that? t251 A kes. ’

Page 46 Page 49 1I 1there. She was the rece tionist. I think she’s left. Q And it ives a date and it gives an extension, and 0 Andso&.. o IS rt that you understand she directly i:iit ivesthenumbercaledandthe~thenarne9 which ;:;works for? [ 3 1un 4 oftunateiy is cut a tile bii off of the page, but over 141 A I don’t know. I don’t know who she works for. [ 4 1at the right-hand side of the page. Do you see that? ts1 Q_ But she’s a receptionist, I think you said, for 151 A Yeah. Yeah. [ 6 ] Whom. I’IOW? fsl Q Okay. Now, looking at those calls there, do you A At the White House, for the West Wing for the - [7 1see, sir, that there are, on that age there are three iii it’s sort of a protocol position. You walk in and she asks [ 81 different extensions indicated. %le first call, for example t 9 lyou to sit down and she says, who do you want to see. r9which oaxned on October 21st at 19:01, or 7:Ol p.m., shows Q bo you know whether or not she works directty under I i 01 a call from extension 4404? I : i; Mr. Podesta for exam le? I111 A Right. t121 A’ I don’t ti ink so. [I21 Q And it has the name William RI - and then if you Q Do you know whether she works directly under the [ 13 I see where: coyy; over to the next page, RIchardson? i iii President, _in te_rqrs of part of his immediate staff or - Cl41 1151 A No. I151 AQ R@~;;u see that? 1161 Q - is it your understandin that - 1161 1171 A No, it’s not that high-leve 9 a position. 11’1 0 Under that, there are three calls that have the Q Now, upon receivrng the resume, do you have any : i B1 name lsabelle Watkins, and they show the extension 4402. Do I :ilrecollection of talking with anyone about the resume or the t 1s 1you see that? tzolfact of its receipt, or anything like that? !201 A Yeah, I do. t211 A No. I don’t think I talked to anyone. Q And then finally there is a call that says Mona Kai (221 0 I’m assuming you looked at the resume, correct? iii 1Sutphen t?t harr;? extension 4029. Do you see that, sit? 1231 A Yeah, I did. :231 Q Now, once you saw the resume of what is now Q Is it accurate sir that your extension at your 11:; identified on the resume as Ms. Lewinsky. what if anything I::loffice in New York is 4404: that the extension of Ms. Watkins

Page 44 to Page 49 OlCStarr 3408

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAX(9)

Page 50 Page 53 : : ‘is 4402: and that the extension of Ms. Sut hen IS 4029? A Right ._ [?I A That‘s probably correct, bu P anybody uses my _ Q -- do you believe that you would have been In New 13:extension. Many ttmes I get m staff to place m calls right :3-York In those lntervenin days? I 4! in my offlce. I’m sitting on a so f a and I say, you Y(now, j : A In New ? ork.and Washington probably. I j I tall so-and-so, and somebody will go to the desk and place a i: Q Now,, if we direct your attention to Exhibit WBR-2, rilcall from m extension. I mean, that’s very common. i i ‘which IS the phone list in front of you - ._ i7: d Now, he IS the layout at your office in terms of ! Right. 1e ; phones? So, I’m assumrng there IS a phone In your physical i? : - and if we look at that first call, where it j e 1office, correct? rs’tndicates October 21st. 1997, at 19:01, or 7:Ol p.m., a five- I101 A Yeah. There’s two hones. There’s one on my desk [ 1?‘minute and 42-second call to Washington. D. C. from the ( 11land there’s one on my sofa. And t ! en there’s, right outside j :i jextension 4404 - [ 12!my office there’s Deb Nelson, who is the immediate assistant, 11-7: r13lmalnly answers phones and helps out with correspondence. And 113: A0 Ri- 9hat ht- has the name of William Richardson next to [ I .I 1then you go to the right and lsabelle Watkins and Mona have [lc‘lt - f 151 separate small offices. IiS1 Q And they have phones, each of them has their own [i6j AaRight.- do you agree that that is likely a call that was I:tiphone on their own desk. correct? LI 7! placed from your office, from your phone, on that time and [I81 A Yeah, right. rls!date? 1191 Q And wouM your understanding be then that the [lS! A Well, it could be placed from another office. I [ 20 1extension that would be on lsabelle Watkins’ desk would be I 20 1think that the 4404 can also be placed from Isabelle’s (2 I 1the 4402 extension, and the extension that would be at Mona [2:jOffiW. [221Sutphen’s desk would be the 4029 extension? 1221 Cl Because that’s our line, correct? 1231 A Apparently. I mean, if you asked me what my I’31 A Yeah, because rhat’s my line. (24 Iextension number is, my direct extension. I uess it’s 4404. 1241 - Q She has one of your lines there as well? r251l don’t know. That’s the number that I call w% en I’m trying 1251 A She has one of my lines, yeah.

Page 51 Page 54 I I 1to get ahold of Isabelle. Q And I’ll represent to you sir that the m 121 Cl And is lsabelle the person who normally answers ii humber that is there is Monica Le’winsky’s apartment at [ 3 1 your phone and says, Ambassador - [ 31 the Watergate here in Washington, D. C. Do you see that, 141 [ 4 1sir? IS1 Aa Usually- Richardson’s - office? (51 A Yeah. No, I see it. I61 A Yeah, usually I want her to answer the phone [61 Q Do,you believe that ou might have s ken to Manic r-ilbecause I would have something schedule-related. But I [ 7 I Lewinsk on the rught of October 2 r st for approxima p”ely five [ 81 usually encoura e her to answer the phone first when I am r8jminutes. y [ glcalling that number. Sometimes it doesn’t happkn. A No. I don’t believe so. I think lsabelle spoke to [lOI But the point is that my extension is used by [ iii her, to set this to set the meetings up. [ 1I 1everybody.. Many people will use that extension to make a [III BY h;lR. LERNER: [ 121 call, especlall If they are In. my office and I say. get so- 112; Q Is it possible that Ms. Watkins placed the call [ 13land-so or Isa elle ma be In my oftice when I m calling from (13-lfrom your office. had it on the s aker phone and ou were to (14lthe Se&i8 kuncil. gut. [ 141 say some words to Ms. Lewinsgin the course of [hat (151 Now. woukf you have a calendar that would reflect I 1s I conversation. even though Ms. atkrns placed the call from [ 161 whether you were, In fact, in your office on Qctober 21 st? ~16jyOUroffb? Cl71 A What da ts that? Cl71 A I don’t think so, no. I mean, I don’t, I don’t 1181 Q That’s a f uesday. [ 18I reI?etnber ever talking to her until I actually saw her in my I191 A No, I don’t keep records. I 19I suite at the Watergate Hotel. [201 Q Well, you have - You should ask - I think your people asked [211 ~:!{lsabelle. I mean, this would be easily cleated up by her, I Aa Youmean-- a calendar, correct, that shows where you would [zz]would think. i::;beonagivenda 7 I231 Q Okay. If I could just have a moment here? 1241 A V&l. lsabelle would keep it. I mean, I don’t have I241 Discussion off the record.) [25lOne. I251 $’ Y MR. BIENERT:

z

Page 52 Page 55 Q Well, remember we talked a few minutes ago about Q So, you then would have left on the trip to the 1: i the calendar and the fad that we i:l’Con o on ap roximately the 23rd coming back on approximately [ 3 1January of ‘98, but we [ 31 the %th. Is iPyour understandiq th$ pnor !o your I I 1October. November or I 4I leaving you would have made a ecIsK)n to tiervtew Ms. isi A Yeah. IS1 Lewinsky. based on the resume? 161 Q I’m assuming that that’s a calendar that is A Well. in my mind, yeah that after John had asked [ 7 1main!ained by your secretary, but that shows where your itime, and after, yeah, that In prina le I knew I was going to [ 8I appointments are on any given da correct? [ 81 interview. I don’t know f I made Phat decision before I A Oh, yeah, yeah. I t 1 ought you meant whether I kept i 9 1went to the Con 0 or not. ..^.YI91 ,L”lK Q 2nd then woui,u ,tlave given any instructions to Q But to your knowledge there is a calendar kept at I ~~hbody on your staff to set u he II itervlew? i ::; least that woukl show your appointments and for example. 1121 A Yeah. I would_. ave: s‘aid to Isabelle, lsabelle [ 13 1would show whether you were in Washington: D. C. - ii3jplease set up the intervtew wlth,,wrth, with Lewinsky. I 1141 ; Yeah, yeah. yeah. [ 14 ~woukl have Said_ ta__ ._~belle,Is: set It up, and then I assume I151 - versus New York? rlslshe’d. she” do that. A And that’s what we‘ve tried to do in this. I 1161 I :;;thou ht you’d have it, day-byday, between the period in 1171 BYd K%RNER: rls1que&on until now. [I81 Q ’Wh’; $$d she have placed the call on your line as I191 Q When ou reflect back on it, and again using the rlglopposed to hers IWil [ 20 I benchmark dates of &t ober 19th on a Sunday as the day you A She (21 I ot back from South America, and October 23rd. I guess, a [221?h ursday - 1231 I in m office. A0 Right-- as the day that the press says you would have IlEN F& T: r: : i lefl for the Congo - I251 Q Okal 1. And now what we are going to do is, we c

OIC-Starr Page 50 to Page~55 3409

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAX((Or

Page 56 Page 59 ! I ~direct our atte-:-on to what we’ll call Government Exhibit 11lyou know, talk herself. Or I’m. you know, reading somethg i 21 WBR-3. f 21 and that frequently happens (Exhibit WBR-3 was marked 1~.131 [31 0 Is rt accurate str. that when Ms. Watkrns places a 141 ‘for identification.) [ 41 call from the 4404 extension it’s typically because it’s a 15: BY VR\BIENERT: [ 51 call being made at your direction. or in relation to Ifi! Q Srr. I’ll just ask you to look at this. And what [ 61 somethlngpr you? i 71 I’ll represent to you is that thus IS a summa [7i It could be But many times she - sometimes Men !a; MR LERNER: He has a slight r--.y drfferent version. 18! I’m not in, in the country or I’m not usin my oftice. she MR BIENERT: Okay. Let me see if there is a (91uses my office. She used to do that in 9he Congress. She’d ~{i!correction. We want to make sure we have everything I Iolplace her calls from m I mean, this is fairly ! 1i i accurate. Whaf 1’11do is place mine. which we’ll say WBR - t:iiall right. This 5 the accurate one. Wh don’t we label [lslthisone- actua!ly. no, wait a mrnute. Y;hrs IS - so, tlslwhich one is - oka Mine is the one that’s wrong. So. he [lS]callS. ; ;;; had the ri$hof& i;erere;go. I161 Q Okay. Now, up until this time, because where we [ 17 1are now is, let’s take us u to the date of the 39th or all I181 Q !Il place that back before you, sir. ;;;;~i;;y up to the 3lst of gdober. You are back horn the L191 1201 Aa %%s WBR-3. Sir, 1’11represent to ou that [201 A Right. f?~)thrs IS just a summary made from phone call reco, -dys that we 1211 0 And, as you will recall, the 31st of October is the fzz1got via subpoena - [zzlday. Halloween Day, that you adually met Ms. Lewinsky, [231 f23jcorrect? 1241 Aa Right.- of calls back and forth between October 24th and 1241 _. A Was it? [ 251 October 38th of 1997 from the extension with the name i25j Q According to your -

Page 57 Page 60

[ 11lsabelle Watkins. which is 4154402. to Monica Lewinsky at [II A The31st? fzltwo different numbers; either the Watergate number that we 121 and we’ll show you that. But that’s [ 3 1told you before. or Monica Lewinsky’s Pentagon .-,r 31 the recordyhat ~~%%%av. I 4I office. which is 703-697-9312. ’ 141 MR. LBRNER: Can I step back for a moment? i5i A Okay. i5i MR. BIENERT: Yes. ’

Q And just for purposes of the record, WBR-3 contains ,bl BY_ MR ._ LERNER.__. ._. t-1 lflll different ohone calls. Do vou see that. sir? Q Actual1 I think you returned from the Congo the A’ Yeah. ’ ~~~29th. You attended a %g gala event for the President of fs)Cra on the 29th. Is rt psible that you - I can I 101 re resent that to you, I t Ink. that at least the records IllIre ect that. Is it possible that you had an conversations with ! i:i lsabelle Watkins on the 29th and the 3 & h about Ms. Lewinsky I 14 1and trying to schedule an interview on the - 0 And you notice that in terms of WBR-3. all of the t151 Iizlcalls are verv short. 1161 Aa I- don31 St? t know. You don’t remember? i17i A- Right. t171 A I don’t remember meeting with the President of 0 Rangin? from 30 seconds to, I think, a minute and fls)China. ::89;45 seconds being the on est correct? 1191 BY MR. BIENERT: 1201 A Oritcould %e* that these are recordings._ right._ or I201. Q Well, in fact. I wanted to ask a question, because i21 j- yeah. [Zlll- 1221 Q Messages, that sort of thing. MR. LERNER: tt‘s a b’ State dinner. Does that - (231 A Yeah. /I think there was a newspaper a rt& , them was a bg State Q And with this at least, I realize you didn’t make tz4)dinner for Jian Zemin. I:: ; these calls, but is that at least consistent with what you r251 BY tiR. BIENERT:

Page 58 Page 61 t1 Iwould have expected to ha pen, that there would be some calts Q Were you ‘12 1back and forth of a schedu Prng-type nature between Ms. A I don’t thin tFsentat-I was there. .-.r 3rWatkins and Ms. Lewinskv? BY MR. LERNER A Yeah, because my schedule probably changed and, you Q Oh, you weren’t? I :! know we were trying to get coordination for for her to be A No. [ 6 1interviewed by me. because my schedule is’atways &an ing. BY MR. BIENERT: Q Now if ou notice in terms of these 11 ca9 Is, all ii ; of them are from or to tK e 41544b2 extension, which is the t 9 1one that comes back to lsabelle Watkins’ name. Do you see t101that. sir? 1111 A Yeah. Q And I will represent to you that we have looked 1121 A Yeah. I don’t think I was there. i :: ;over all the phone records we have, and we dii not see an I131 BY MR. LERNER t 141 records dunng this timeframe, namely between after the car I It may have had the guest list and actualty 1IS 1on the 21 st from the 4404 extension up until the call. u om the Congo in time. [ 16 1until the 30th. we did not see any other calls from the &4 Y MR. BIENERT: 117rextension. Okav. sir? I171 Q Now, up until this time, and we’ll say up - iiei A Yeah. A I ou know, I don’t want to get hung up on - I Q Now, do ou know why, if Ms. Watkins made 11 calls i:iidon’t think I wa; rhere. ~:~~frorn and to her 4402 e xr ensron but we do have a 4404 Q Up until, let’s say. the 3Oth, 3lst the time when fzllextension on the 21st, in your mind is there any rhyme or i:F:you actually interviewed with Ms. Lewinsky, did’you inform 12.21 reason to when Ms. Watkins would choose to use your extension I 22 1anyone who worked at the White House that you were going to f231versus her own? r231interview y. L;;rnsky? A She frequently uses my extension. you know. That’s 1241 if!iall I can tell you. She’ll place a call from my office and. f251 Q Did you talk with anyone at the White House about ^.

Page 56 to Page 61 OlCStarl 3410

BY Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAX(l1)

Page 62 Page 65 _ Ms. LewinsAky. tooget any background on her or anything? : i 1Ms. Lewinsky and come back to that. But now we’re on October ;7;31st. 0 Did you talk with anyone at the Pentagon about MS ; Lewrnsky? .z A $40. Q Did you talk to anyone anywhere - ._ .r_ Aa No.-- about Ms. Lewmsky? A No. ‘.I Q Now, I know you referred a few moments ago to what I101 : : _ you thought was a subsequent conversation with Mr. Podesta (11) AQTosovyou talk to-- them about fast track. ::r.about - 1121 Q So, you had several meetings, it looks like [ 131throughout the da with. at least the night before and then AaYes.- Ms. Lewinskv. - Do .vou believe that was after the [ 141 through 12:30-l -06 with Congressmen about fast track. / : 5 i interview? I 15I correct? . _. .~~, ~~ A No, that was before. That was during the trip. 1161 A Yes. .-5..._. _- Q Oka . Which tdp are we talking about? Q All r ht. Then l:OO, speaking engagement, (:3: A Thekin Amenca t!rp. { :,‘; Earthkind National “b ress Club. “2’ 0 Oka So, you drdn t have any - after the Latin [I91 ‘A Right. ii s i American trip, and t me back up to make sure we are keeping [ZOl Q You spoke at that? : z: : things o anlzed here. The conversations ou just referred [211 A Yes. ;zz: to on the%tin American trip, those were aXprior to I221 Q And ou flew back to New York? ! 23 : receiving y. L;trsky’s - 1231 A Rghty 14! 1241 - Q And then this 3:30 meeting of the P-5 re Iraq !TJ: Q - resume, and prior to deciding that you would (251 A Right.

-. .__ Page 63 Page 66

: : 1definitely i;tervties.her. correct? (11 0 What’s the P-5? _-.e-1 I21 A These are the permanent five members of the :3: Q Do you know whether you ever spoke to Mr. Podesta j3lSecurity Council: United States, Russia, China, Britain, : 4i again about Ms. Lewinsky? f 4 1 France. It’s the ambassadors that I guess got together that :5; - A No. isjday. :6; 0 Is that, you did not speak to him or you are not j61 Q And then you had a Security Council meeting, and ;::sure? [ 7 I that’s United Nations Security Council at - A No, I’m, for sure I never spoke to John Podesta (81 f ?If after the interview. 191 : !y&? . . -1 Q And you didn’t speak to him between the time ou I101 A Yes, right. i I : f ot back - about Ms. Lewinsky between the time you got ba d: [Ill Q And then you did a CNN interview later that night, ; :I : 4 om South America and the interview? rlzlcorrect? :lj: A No. No. [131 A Yes. I guess I did, yeah. 0 So let’s talk a little bit about the interview. I141 Q Now, that’s a pre full day, correct? i il j Who was present? Where was it? How vid, i$F;iipd [ISI A Pretty full day. yes. i : 6: let me go ahead and show you a schedule. 1161 0 Is thus sort o a tvoltX~t type of day you were r:::WBR4. 113: (Exhibit WBR4 was marked [:9! for rdentiication.) [201 BY MR. BIENERT: [2?1 Q .Now, do ou recognize, sir. is this a document that ;;:;you would~utr;r5gyhet 7y

1241 Q And what is this? [2S! A Well, this is my schedule for the day that is

Page 64 Page 67

i 1: wwed lsabelle Watkins. I I I Lewinsky? .. 121 2 Let’s go ahead and look through the entries on the 121 - A No. No. None at all. i3!XlledUle. Q What is your first recollection of how ou were i:itold if at all that you were going to be interviewing d s. I 5 I Lewinsky ori Halloween momin the 31 st? 161. A It coukf -what I 9 hink, what usually happens is I [.I jlrke, to et - I don’t deal with a schedule of the next day 181 untrl la ae the night before, when I insist on a little card Okay. So, at the top of WBR4.5:15 p.m., [ 91 or an exptanatron of the next day’s schedule. [ 1c: 7Jrincipafs meetin on Iraq” - I101 What usually hap ns is Mona S hen tells me what Ill1 A Ri !t f I 11we’re going to do the next 8”ay. And I think %at happened [:Z’ Q ls?hat because this Iraq crisis was starting to I 12 1was the first time I knew about meeting Lewinsk on Frfda [l3iheat up? I 13twas on the plane coming down from, on the shu i le from NYew 114; A Yes. (14 1York Mona telling me, you know we got an interview tomorrow 115: Q And I think you told us a few minutes ago that you [IS jwfth Lewinsky; you are meeting this Lewinsky woman tomomow I i 6: remember that thinqs had reallv started to heat UD with lraa r16jat 730. i I -) j after you got back = 1171 And let me also state for the record, because this IlP! - A Yes, sir. I 18I has been a source of confusion - can I do this? Can I - [:3: 0 By the time you got back - i19j Q Absolutely. 1::; ; From the Congo. 1201 A I met with Ms. Lewinsky not for breakfast. She was [::I - from the Congo? [ 2 11 not, she didn’t have breakfast. I had breakfast earlier. We I:-‘: A Yeah. I 22 I met in my suite at the Watergate Hotel, which is not a 123: Q 7:00 meeting with Mike Parker. Who is Mike Parker? r231permanent surte. where I frequently have other meetin s. I : I241 A He’s a Congressman from Mississippi. I24 jdrd not meet with her in her apartment. I had no idea sIl e [ZS: Q And then we’ll pass over the 730 a.m. meeting with I 2 s l lived at the Watergate. And I want to stress that it was not

OlCStarr Page 62 to Page 67 3411

BY Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAX(12)

Page 68 Page 71

a breakfast. It was an IntervIew attended by myself, Ms. (1. As I said. I Interview everybody that IS a serious I Sutphen and Rebecca Cooper 1:: applicant for a bosltlon wrth me. And this IS. this IS how I __ Q So. Ms. Sutphen and Rebecca Cooper were the persons [ 31 do thongs ;. who were present, correct? 14: Q Okay. Now, this outreach pr ram So IS It A Yes. [ 5 ; accurate then that at the time you interview 8 her the job Cl Tell us about the interview. What went on? What [ 61 that you wtentlally had In mind was some sort of an outreach ’ -was discussed? ~7; posrtron that would be made in New York? A Well. the - I remember that either Mona or Rebecca !91 A Yes ;: went downstairs to et her and started meeting at 7:30. I 19; Q Okay. Did anyone occupy that posrtton up until -.-.thtnk I’d already ha 8 breakfast. I was -the meeting lasted I 101 that pornt? : : : about 45 minutes A No. because it was a slot that we hadn’t filled. I believe I was there listenin while Mona and I::jAnd this was a slot that Gina Gnego had and she had left. ,I,iRebecca were interviewing her. And t# en I came in, I think, :13!And what we wanted to do was shift this posdion to New York, : :4:at the end to ask some questrons. But I was always 114 Ithe slot. and find a wa through the personnel system that we : :z: listening. I was packing. I was on the phone. : lslcould make it. uote ti e outreach position. ,.;. _A-. The way the structure of the room is, you’ve got 1161 nego then had done the position in ; :- : the bedroom, and then you’ve got the little sofas. So, you 1171Washingto?? lnd Gina G I:? :can see what each is doing. So, I was hearin But most of 1181 A Not to that extent. She had been sort of an il?:the interview was conducted b Mona and Re %ecca. I:.‘ Q Do YOU remem t!a r the topics that were discussed with i::iher? [::I A Well, yeah. Rebecca Cooper, m new chief of staff, 1:3!wanted to establish a new outreach positron. S x e asked i23jthis position. 1~14; Lewinsky about her background. I remember Coo (241 Q Now, when you say this was a job that was open, ~2s:pattiiularly interested in Lewinsky’s experience WI?er h the was t25lwere there any kind of job notices that were passed out -

Page 69 Page 72

Ill A I don’t know. (21 - stating this thin as a posit&? AQ I don’t know but %ut I think we had other I:iapplicants or other peo le ihat ’ ou know we had in the mix. [ 51 But I don’t think - no. Pmean. *t;t ere’s no i~otii for these [s]thingS, I don’t think. Q Well, is it your ex rience in government that Iii there typically are notices post eJefor. government robs?. (91 A Yeah, but not all pokbcal jobs. PO ibcal jobs, Ilolthat is usually not the case. I think C, Schedule C I 111appok&nents. political appointments, I don’t believe they (12 Iare necessarily osted. I131 Q &as this a Schedule C ap ointment in your mind? I141 A I think it is a Schedule C. Pthink Gina had a C, ilsjyeah. I161 Q Now, you indicate that there were other people in remember her saying she worked for I 17 lthe mix. How tong had you been considering applicants for t:s~did advance for Cohen. She traveled with the Secretary of [ 181 thts particular posdion? [:4;Defense. (191 A I think not ve long. At the time we were realty 1231 She did, she said - I remember in the interview rzotstarting to get enmeshed in X e Iraq crisis. This was not f2ilshe said she did the news summaries for Cohen when he did r211very much on my radar screen. I mean, we were going day to [Zi j press conferences overseas, or she compiled something. rszlda ,20 hours a day. This personnel matter was not btg on my She was impressrve in the interview. She seemed [23]ra d arsC4EM. ~::&oised. professional. And I must say after the interview, I And Coo r I think had talked to scme other [25!was impressed with her. I::ipeopte and I don’t, F d&t re&mber necessarity that I had

Page 70 Page 73 Q Now, you mentioned there was talk about some of the t I Jsaid, well this is somebody I’m considering for Gina‘s job, i:&ings going on at the Pen ta#n. Doiou knowwhetherornot rztalthaugh i had - as I said, ! think I saw four or five t3~either you or Ms. Cooper or s. Sutp en asked her about her I 3 I peop,k during that time penod that, that might have been t41work at th%PenFeh3n. or was that something you - (4 lcandtdates for thts. I. I just don’t remember. I mean, this Is! ~s~was a big nod of intensity with the Iraq issue. 15; - asked about? I61 Es4 So, ou don t have any recoIledion then as to r-1 2 I think Cooper asked her about what she did at the I 7 1whether you would K ave intervtewed. any peo i;iPenta on and Mona did, and I asked. I mean, she told me what I 8I arbcular posrbon you were considering for M?Lf&%k y. [ slshe di% wtth Bacon and she did with - she traveled with the 191P s that a-rate? [lo]Secretafy of Defense. And she was, at the time, was planning r101 A That’s probably right, yeah. [ 11Ion a trip. The were going to Asii or somewhere. I remember I111 Q One request I woufd make is. can you confer with r::?her saying tha r . r121your counsel after,we are done and then, to the degree that Q Did you or anyone ask her about any of her work at [ I 3 1you have rnfonnabon relating to other applicants that you I::ithe White House? I 14 I tntervrewed for what could be this position. would you A No, I didn’t. I just noticed that she had worked I 15I provide that - I::iin the Congressional relations office and I must say, I was i16j. [ 17:impressed as somebody that was &I the Congress. (171 A0sure.- to the Independent Counsels office? IiS: h Why didn’t you ask her anything about the White I181 A Yeah. Yes. t1c:House? I191 Q And is it fair then, purposes of record, Well, her last job was at the Pentagon. You know rzorthat unless you hire sornebod is references are checked [211 A That I personallv interviewed or that - artment security peop L . And questions I221 0 Yes. _ her references and others are done by 1231 A - Cooper interviewed? I241 Q- That you rsonally interviewed. Well, actually, I : [ 25. was impressed. ::slguess I would ask for bo p”h.

Page 68 to Page 73 OIC-Starr 3412

q--. SA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMml3)

Page 74 Page 77 ii! A Oka :: understanding of the rocedure? How does the applicant :-I Q TharCoo r interviewed. and then also any and we _ and/or resume and In Pormation get to the State Department sz i; jwould want it designate 8”, whether you personally interview&d ! 11them. Okiy? ;51 Lceah.

I101 A That’s right. Yeah. !I!] Q Now(, what was said at the end of this interview? i 1: 1How did you leave It with Ms. Lewmsky? A I think I - we told her that we would get back to i ii 1her. There was no, you know, no offer made, nothing. We’d [ : s iget back to her, that I’d think about it. I161 0 Now, after the interview. who if - i:E:yOU- ~ Cl’1 MR. LERNER: Can I just butt in? I--- Yaah. _“.._ [Ial BY MR. LERNER: ;;:: ‘d extend the offer? L191 0 Do you recall any ti?e during the intqview. did [?$i A That’s right. [ 20 1Ms. Lewinskdyexr,ss an esr;eual interest ~,nthe Unlted i2:: Q Did you extend an Offerto Ms. Lewinsky at the time 121 ]Na:ions. or id s e Indicate t at she also mght be ~2::of her interview? 122 1interested in other positions? 122: A No. No. A No she -well the answer is both. She, she had . Q Afler the interview, did you have any discussions i::ldone her homewo’ti about thd U.N.. about me, that she wanted izi&ithanybody about Ms. Lewinsky and what you thought of her i25]-- she said she was moving to New York She did say she was ]zs:and what should be done?

Page 75 Page 78 [ I 1also looking at the rivate sector. But she did - she had :. A Yeah. I remember, I think in the car as we went to [z]done her homewo R ;_isee Ben Gilman. or in the car as we went to see these other She she was impressive in her presentation, as I [z;Members of Congress, I asked Rebecca and Mona that were in [:;said in her poise. And, as I said, in her background, 14; the car, I said, well, what did you guys think. And Mona [ 51 looking at her background, for a public affairs job. she had is:said, I’m impressed. And Cooper said, I’m, I’m im ressed, I [6]dOne public affairs at the White House. She had done public ]s;think we should hire her. And I said, well, let me t R.ink (71 affairs at the Department of Defense. We had a junior Job [::about it, let’s, let’s put it off. (9 lopen and, and it seemed, afler the lnterwew that I was 15: Q Now, this would have been on a Friday obviously, rglsurtably img.$e~;~elENERT: r5:October 31st? [lOI 1::: A Yeah, I think it was right, right after, you know. ill1 Q Did Ms. Lewinsky indicate how she was going about r:::we jumped in the car. 1 - and this was durin the intervtew with you on the 31st - Q And then the next working da then if we say the i i;idid she make any re Berence to or give any suggestion as to !:;;31st was Friday, so that means the 1st was .z aturd’ay the 2nd [ 141 how she was going about looking into private sector jobs in [ 1c:was Sunda and then the 3rd would have been the n&t worlung r:s]New York? ]ls:day, on a AondyaeYvct?t.I (161 A No. No, she didn’t. [lb: Q You mentioned when {ou were talking about why you 117: Q I’m goingfto place in front of you - [ :i i were impressed with Ms. Lewinsky, t at she had quote, been 119; (Discussion o the record.) r~glpromoted. unquote. What promotron are you referri [I91 (Exhibits WBR-5 and WBR-6 were A Well, I’m simply sa ing that she went?t%the 122; marked for identification.) t:!iWhite House to the Department o r Defense. from a staff 1211 BY MR. BIENERT: sition to Director of Legislative Correspondence, to Ken Q Actual why don’t we hold off with those for just I::; I?acon’s assistant. I mean, this is a better job. And - i::iasecond,becauseI t?owanttocheckoneotherexhiifi&. [241 Q So ou viewed that as a promotion? Actual let’s go ahead with another exhibit [251 A Yea3 . Yes. $:ifirst, which we WI? I take out of order.

Page 76 Page 79

Cl Did you ever make any inquiries, either if not [l! (Exhibit WBR-7 was marked ii ibefore the interview then after the interview, with anyone [2: By MR. &r$$_i_ition.) ]3]at the White House &out the circumstances of her leaving the 13: I 4 1White House? Q Now, I would ask if you would bok at Exhibit 7. [51 A No. i:jand directing your attention to - I’ll represent to you Q Were you ever told by an one thqt she had actually [sjsir. this is a document that was taken off of the combuter of ! t ; been term;ate;zm her employment a r the Whrte House? [i]Monica Lewinsk . If you look at the top of the pa e. it says [El is:2 November 19 d 7, and it says, Dear Betty. And I? you look at Q Were you ever told b anyone at the White House I sdhe second paragraph? [ :z;that She was let go from the White x ouse because her job was [IO? A‘ Yeah. ; ; ; ; consrderedAsubJzf? Q I’m going to read that aloud. It sa ‘Ibecamea i:iibit nervous this weekend when I realized that Am T*. Richardson Q Were you ever told by anyone at the White House [13&l his staff would be in touch with me this” - and KS [ : : i that she was terminated or let go from the White House rl4iitalicized - “week.” [~s]because she was hangin around the Oval office or where the ilSi A Yeah. [16)President;aS tN& much.9 . Q “As you know, the UN is supposed to be my back up [I71 ;:?but because VJ has been out of town, this IS my onty option Q I believe you told us that you would typically et [lairight now.” I: ii our own impression of peo le bu! that you would assume t4 at 119; A who’s VJ? I 20 1r he State Department wou 18 deck out references and things of [2Cl Well, I was going to ask you that. [ZiI 2 Oh. [22: Let’s iust continue here. (23; 2 Okay: 0 What should I say to Richardson’s ple this w&k !::iwhen they call?” And then you can read the rest o p”that

OlCStarr Page 74 to Pa@ 79 3413

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 0.9 _ XMAX(l4) Page 80 Page 83 : : paragraph If you would like. 1looking at.” Do ou see that. srr? .- Then I will also direct you to the very last full A dh-huh. : <: paragraph. whtch also has a reference to you. And if you can 1 Q Did she rndicale to you that workrng at the U N. ‘. . ,just look aithat. I’m gorng to ask - 1was one of the thrn s she was considering? .-,:. The last one? A Yea ;1 She sard that she was lookrng at the pnvate Q The one that is a few - read that second jsector also. .; ‘paragraph. and then I guess the sixth paragraph had Q Okay That’s all the queshons I have on that ; 2: references to your name. 7. ldocument. _ A Guess she’s not looking forward to coming. 1 MR. BIENERT: Do you have any more, Mr. Lerner? .A-_..n. Q B that, are you referring to the - MR. LERNER: No. ,... A “&k” ,.-;__ I BY MR. BIENERT. : I-, - portion that says - I Q You asked who’s VJ. Do you know who VJ is? -:j AQ “Yuti. .--. 1 A No. 114: Q Okay. Now. rf we go to the next two documents that [ 1s 1 the court reporter had prepared, and why don’t we start with 1161WBR-5. If you don’t mind, wh don’t you read it. but I’m I 17 ~going to have you lay it down L cause that’s my copy. ii81 Oh, we have an extra copy. Yes. I191 Do y~“u s;z;;,at, sit? I201 t211 Q Let me go back up and just ask you. Is it rzz~accurate. sir. that durinq the interview-first of all. i 23 j let% start over. 1241 Let’s look at timin?. The interview obviously was i24j - A This one? :25!on Friday. the 31st. correct. I251 Q This entire document, yes, sir. But I will

Page 81 Page 84 :1i A Yeah. [ 11represent that this is an e-mail that a witness testified in :2; Q Okay. And so, to the degree that the date on this rzjthe grand jux was received from Monica Lewinsk on or about [ 3 1is accurate, whrch I m not necessarily representing that it r31November 5t , in the Far East, which would have ‘6, en November .rslis. t414th in the - i51 A [51 A She was in - 16: 0 %th&ovember 2nd, which would have been a Sunday [61 - United States. !7i [71 AQ - the Far East? [8! A0 Right-- when it refers in aragraph two about becoming Q Yes. Ms. Lewinsky was here according to the ! s-j“nervous this weekend when I rea r!lzed that Amb. Richardson I EIwitness. The witness who got the e-mail was in the Far East : :c: said his staff would be in touch with me this week” - [ 10lwhich means the date, based on this document, at the time f&. !:I; (111Lewinsky would have sent it would have been November 4th. [L‘: Aa Ri?h’.- hat IS the weekend that you would have [ 12 1which I believe, if we use - : :i i interviewed her, correct? [131 A November Sth? [14! ; to response.) Cl41 Q In fact, one of the things I’m goin to do, since amely Friday the 31st was the weekend of the t 15jwe’re talking about a lot of days, how about rf I B o this i : z ; same weekend as November ind? Correct? [ 16jjust to make it easier7 I’m going to put out just a blank A Would be in touch with me this week.” In other [ 17 lcalendar Mr. Lemer was ocd enough to rovide for us, for ~:~~words. the next week. [ 181 the month of November 18 97. so we can Relp get our days Q Ri ht. I guess there are two components of this. r~glstraight. !:i;at least literally. I3 we look at the first line of And do you agree with me, sir, that November 3rd 121 ~paragraph~~o.;~~.e a bit nervous this weekend” - !iytwas.--, a Mondav? 1221 r.721 A . Yeah. Q - “when I realized that Amb. Richardson”. Let% [231 Q And then November 4th was a Tuesday, correct? IZifocus on that part. 1241 A That’s right. 1251 A Okay. I251 Q So, November 3rd would have been the first day

Page 82 Page 85

Q Do you agree with me sir that at least based on II Iback, at least the first workda back, after you interviewed I: i the calendar “this weekend” would b& the weekend of the ;;;Ms. Lewtniky oiiFiy, Octc&er 31st? t3131st, 1st. and 2nd? (41 A Yeah. Q Al?right Now if you can direct your attention 151 Q And the 31st - i :; to the second para raph of the e-mail, and I’m going to read I61 G $p;t$s meeting. [ 61 it aloud and then I 19I ask you some questions about It. I71 [ 7I Okay, sir? Is that okay? I81 A Yeah, yeah. 181 - A Yeah, yeah. Q Did you indicate to Ms. Lewinskl that someone from Q It indicates “The job thing on Friday went much [ :iiyour staff would be In touch with her this week. [ ifi; better than expected. It whs nice. the big creep called A I don? think so. I said, I think we said, we’ll I 1I )Thursda night and..? ave me a &p talk because I was so afraid I::ibe back in touch. [ 12 I I’d soun cr-hke an tdro . Richardson is a great uy and I met 1131 Q You do believe that there was some reference to I 13 jtwo women who work for him . . . also very coo9 Yesterday, I 14 1getting in touch with her, but you don’t believe that there [I 4 I R&a&on called me at work and told me the were going to I I 5 I was any tigtefraff;h~t - [ 15joffer me a position . . they didn\ know what ye r, and they 1161 [ I 61 wanted to talk with me further.’ [I71 Q -onit? [IsI A I don’t think there was a timeframe. I191 Q Okay. 120: A But you need to ask Mona, but. but I don’t think :21) there - I don’t believe there was a timeframe. I221 Q If ou look at that second paragraph, I uess it 1221 A Yes. Yeah. [z 3 jwpuid be the fou x h sentence, tt says. “I had.menbon e&o I231 Q. And obviously Jour name is Richardson, which I [ 24 I Richardson that working there” - I m assumrng meaning the [z 4 1appears in this e-mail, corred. :2s]U.N. - “was one” - emphasized -“of the things I was f-251 A Right. -_

Page 80 to Page 85 OIC-Starr 3414

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 BSA _ XMAX(15) Page 86 Page 89

Q And n It also accurate. sir. that when ou : : -time when ou had s oken on a telephone wrth Monrca Lewlnsky? r-. f Interviewed wrth her. there were two women who wo M ed for you L- K I. I be Preve that’s the case, that there was never : oresent at the rntervew? I. a time. A Yes I;‘ Now. there is -- at some point, I did tell Mona Q Ahd that would have been Ms. Sutphen and - ! 5. Sutphen to call her and offer her the posrtion. But It was A And Ms. Coooer. i {‘Mona Sutphen. not - I drdn’t do it. Q - MS Coop&~ And I’d also direct your attention, I‘ Q And let me go through something wrth you, srr. and w. to the next exhlbd given to you - I’m sorry, the court of this IS accurate. - whrch is WBR-6.

1:I: November 3rd. 1997. It shows that there was a phone call at 1:E‘ 11:02 a.m. that lasted two minutes and 54 seconds. And that II-:went to 703-697-9312. ,,li‘ --. Do vou see that. sir? [Is: A Yeah. 1191 First of all - (2:: Cl .Now. IT! re resent to you, sir, that that phone 1201 A This is before the interview? 12: : number isFonFka;wms l?*y s Pentagon office number. I211 Q No, sir. This would be in reference to November .--.I,.‘ [Xl3rd. .~..123‘ a Ricitit? 123; A No. (I-4: A Ri?jht. I241 - Q The November 3rd call. t25: Q And let’s go through the details of this. Once I251 A No. I would not meet her again. No.

Page 87 Page 90 [ 1:again, 4404. that is. in fact, the extension of the phone in Q Do you know whether or not you were going to be in i::your office correct? I: i Washington the week of November 3rd? c3: A Right Right. A Well I - almost for sure I’d be in Washin ton one cr. Q And 11-3-97. if we look at our-calendar. that would I:iof the days of the week. But my procedure would have %een, I :s:be the Monday, the first working day back after you [ 5 1would have asked Mona Sutphen to contact her if we had ! 6:interviewed Ms. Lewinsky. correct? f 61 decided to offer her the job. But it wouldn’t require a !‘- A Thars Monday, right. ( 7: second meetin Q Correct, and you Interviewed her on Friday, the [El MR. SIENERT: We will go off the record while some :Zj31st. correct? 19Iwater is bein delivered to the room. [i;: A Right IlO! & ereupon. the deposition was recesffeajlpan 08) 11:: Q So, do you agree with me, sir, that this indicates, r1:;a.m. to 11:16:35 a.m. [z.at feast the reference here would be November 3rd. the Monday [12! BY MR. BI E NERT: t 12: the first day back, correct? [13I Q Would you have, if you had not done it personally, Ii41 A Yes. [ 14 1would you have directed Ms. Sut hen or an one else in our Q And that the phone record that we’re looking at is t1slpffice. on or about November 3r lfcr,.to conta Ms. Lewins i y. i:z;on that date, Monday, the 3rd. correct? [I 61 rndrcate to her that you were offenng her a o&ion, and [I?: A Right. [ 17 1that you were hoping that - first of all, let’s & ke it a Q And that it indicates that a phone call was made at t1slstep at a tii. i :Ei 11 in the morning from your phone extension. from number 1191 Would you have directed anyone, like Mona Sutphen. (ZOi4404. 1201to contact Monica Lewinsky on or about November 3rd and offer 121: A Right t21lher a position? 122: Q That tasted two minutes and 64 seconds. A I don’t think so. I think that it took me about a 1231 A Right I::iweek or 10 da to decide this. So no I don’t believe that 124; Q To Monica Lewinsky’s work number? (24 1Monday I wou z have said, offer he; the job. (251 A Right 1251 Q And so I’m going to go through the rest of the

Page 88 Page 91 II! Q Sir. is it accurate that you did call her on that 12:day - I3! A I- II! and ou offered her a position? g kneed ro talk to my counsel. I;; Q mars fine. a.m.

I 121do that. M executive assistant would do that. il And the conversation that I’m referring to on the n we’ll stop when the water comes - I ::I tape continues with Ms. Lewinsky indicating: And then (15: r151Arnbassador Richardson said. how do ou want me to work this; [16! Aa Yeaht- unbi yeah.they go in and out. Okay. Now, the I 16]do you,vvant me to tell Ken Bacon. An a Ms. Lewinsky indicated t17jquestion that ,I had asked before the break, sir, is it r171she sard. no, that she’d take care of telling Ken Bacon. t~e~accurate that you called Ms. Lewinsk on Monday, November 118! Dii you ever have a conversation with Ms. Lewinsky . (:9:3d. and you tokl her ou were oing o offer her a position? I 191when ou asked her, or words to the effect, whether you A No. dat is a -be sa!ne situation. That is my rzolshou J Inform Ken Bacon that you were going to hire her? ~:~~extension. But I do not believe I talked by phone at all t211 A No: No., r22:with Monica Lewinsky. I don’t believe I talked to her before Q And obvrously i’m assumin@tt$ $zszstimony [23:or after. That is not my. that is not my recollection ~I:~would be she never indicated to you that s [ 24 : whatsoever. [24]same? (25. Q Is it your testimony, sir, that there was never any [251 A Right. Correct. _-

OlCStarr Page 86 to Page 91 3415

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAXHSJ

Page 92 Page 95

[>I Q And Ms. Lewinsky further mdcates that during this [ 11In the bottom right, that says, “BR - She wrote,thrs note ._ : Tj urported call ou tndicated to her that you would be calling ,_I 7 ; before weipok;ksst week. Just a thank you. 1; 1E ob Nash. Di i you ever indicate to Ms. Lewinsk in a I?: I J rconversahon vou had with her. that _vou would a r I Bob Nash? Id1 0 Do vou see that? i5i A . No. [51 A Yeah. I61 Q Did you ever direct Mona Sutphen to contact Ms. [6i Q Okay. Now. can you tell us what that exchange rs a [ 7; Lewinsk and inform her that she had the positron, and that I 71 reference to? I 3I she wou r d be contacting - either she or YOU would be is; A Yeah. 1. I belleve what it is, IS that I reoerved [ 9 1contachng Ken Bacon?- i BIthIs. She wrote this letter November 3rd. I may have ohen A No. What I did was I told Mona Sutphen, I think. t IOII~a week later or 10 da s later. I think I had already to9 d i : y i about 10 days afterwards, after I had taken in Rebecca i 111Mona. Mona offer her t K e job. And Mona -- and so I wnte [ 1: 1Coopefs very strong recommendation that we hire Lewinsky. I [ 171 this note, “Mona - What does this mean?” [I 31 decided some 10 da s later. I think, or a week later - it (131 Q And is that because in your mind, if you knew that [ 1I 1was not Immediate; ty.hrs was not on my radar screen - that we t 14lshe had alread been offered the job, his letter seems - [ 151 should offer her the position. Cl51 ; beah. And I had Mona Sutphen call Monica to talk to her Cl61 - rather vague in - i:t;and offer her the position. And I believe Mona did. I think I171 ; Sort of innocuous. i 1I, j the records would show that. 1181 - terms of whether she was taking the job or not? I191 Q Now let me o to the next exhibit. WBR-8. A Yeah what does this mean. Then Mona I uess, [?Ol (Exhibit &R-8 was marked ~:~~writes. ‘She wrote this note before we spoke last week.” 30. 1211 for identification.) r211”Just a thank you.” 1221 BY MR. BIENERT: I221 This shows that this letter. we must have gotten it t231 Q I ask, sir, rf you would lode at that. [ 23 1 about November 10th or 15th or. you know, certainly couldn’t 1241 A Yeah. [ 24 1 have spoken to her the week before she wrote the letter. So. I251 Q Now, tell me, sir, if you recognize what WBR-8 is? [251 0 Okay. Now, when it says, “She wrote this note

Page 93 Page 96 I11 A Yeah. This is, this is the thank-you letter she [I 1before we spoke last week”, what is your understanding of who 1.21 sent me. [ 2 1Mona - the “we spoke” is a reference to? Q By that, do you mean that this is a thank-you I31 A I think it refers to her, Mona and Lewinsky. I:iletter that you would have received from Ms. Lewinsky. I41 Q About the iob offer? [ 51 thanking you for meeting with her last Friday morning. which i5i A Yeah. * [6]would be October 31St. amed? Q So. and tell me if this is inaccurate then. The A Yeah but I could have seen this November 10th. I 176;basis for your being somewhat confused about the letter is il i mean this is November 3rd. I don’t know. Was it mailed or 1a 1 the fact that ou knew, at whatever time that you were [ slfaxed? It looks like it was mailed. So, I may have seen I 91looking at it. r hat a tab Offer had been extended - 1~o]this. you know, two weeks later, 10 days later. [101 ILlI Is this a fax, do we know? - Aa Yeah..- and In light of the fact that ou were waiting 1121 Q I’m not sure. I mean, the copy that I have is like I :: ito team whether she was accepting a job o tryer this letter [13lyOum [ 13ldidn’t really address the issue and was sort of confusing, in I141 A It looks like correspondence. f 141 terms of does tt mean she’s taking the job or not? Q Well, I think that number at the bottom might be a 1151 A That’s right. I :z; number either that you put on it or we put on it based on Q And then the reference or I should say the note to [ 17 lproduction from a subpoena. So, I don’t know that that is ;:76iyou from Mona is basically explaining why the letter is kind [ 1s1 something you would normally do. rlelof strange? [191 A Okay. I191 _ A Yeah. 0 And just for the record, let me indicate that what Q Namely, she is saying this is a letter she wrote i:iithis letter says is, it’s dated November 3rd. It says ‘It I :f i before we namely Mona and MO&a, spoke about the job offer f221was a pleasure meeting with you last Friday -m&g. I know rzztlast week? 1231how ve,ry busy and demanding your schedu@ rs; I pticuhiy [231 A Riiht. R’ ht. [ 24 I apprectated your taktng the bme to speak wtth me. Q So isLa%othe n accurate that at least based (251 A Right. t::ion its terms, that \;hatever time it was that yo; saw the

E

Page 94 Page 97 Q Then it says, ‘It was an honor to meet ou. The US [I 1lette!, Mona would have given the job offer to Monica I: i Mission to the United Nabons is certainly in good ha ncIrs with. (2 1Lewuuky the week before? [ 3 1you at the helm. A ain, thank you for your ttme.” Then it A Well, I donI knew if it was the week before but, (4 1says, “SincerelA k_hl$ca Lewinsky”, correct? I:! eah before this letter came to us, because when I got this t51 [ 5 I 7etter. ‘. KS SOI?of a nebulous letter. And I’m wondering, Q N% ‘first of all there’s a reference here in the [ 6 swell. what’s what’s the story here, why is she sending this 1; i first sentence to “It ‘was a pleasure meeting wfth you last [ 7 1letter. And \ do that frequentl . I put ltttle notations, [ 81 Friday morning.” tatwhy. why am I getting this, w$is this coming to me, what I91 A Right. rsldoes this mean. I mean, I do at frequently. Q And, again, based on the date at the top, would you 0 Okay. Now. whenever it was that the ‘ob was i : i ; agree that;hat $grrs to refer to October 31 st? i iiioffered to Ms. Lewinsky - and just to kind of bracket I hat t121 [ 12 1time, as I understand your testunony, you do believe that it Q All right. Now. at the top right of the a e, t13lwas probably conveyed - you don’t believe it was as early as t : :1’there's some writing on the ht-hand side in pen. &ej rlr]November 3rd. as - t 15lwe’re looking at a copy, but,2 at would appear to be pe6. It ilSi A R’ ht. I I 6 I says. Itlo? - M?g;does thts mean?” 1161 - Phese documents. at least - (171 [171 ; R’ ht. I181 Q Do &I see that? -% e e-mail and the phone record of a call on 1191 A Yea K . i :ii November 3rd. you do not believe that it would have been that I201 Q Whose writing is that? tzolearty. correct? _ I211 A That’s mine. [211 A That’s right Q And that would be a note that you wrote on top of Q But ou do believe it could have been roughly 10 or l::jthis’document u n seeing it, correct? I::111 daysaftertheinervtew-r . I241 A g. 1241 A Or a week. 10 to 11 day. yeah. ’ I-‘51 Q Then at the bottom, there’s another written portion I251 Q Which WOUM put us in he tmeframe of, say, -..

Page 92 to Page 97 OIC-Stan 3416

ESA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XLuJ!171

Page 98 Page 101

1: j November 8th to 11 th, correct? :11 Q There IS a call much later on. .->I_. A Possrbl yeah. !2i MR. BIENERT In fact, I think we have It. -_ :3i Cl Okay. but your - I3! MR. LERNER Itwas 11-14- (41 A YOU are askrng me about something that was not on 141 THE WITNESS So, two weeks? : 5I my radar screen. I mean, this was a very intensive period. [5! MR. BIENERT- We were gomg to get to that ! 61 Monica Lewmsky was far from my mind when - in trying to [61 BY MR BIENERT. ! 7 ianswer these questions. I mean. you understand that. IT! Q So, the progression of calls. and I thank we are _ is1 Q Now, who was it that ou had the dtscussion wrth in [ aI it’s not like we are holdrnq out anv calls - ! 9Iwhich youpdrcated. I,do intend to o x er her a posrtron? !9j $ Yeah. No: no. no: [IO! I thmk It was Mona. just Mona and m self. - that were made. We had the call that we show ili] Q Okay. And what was it that you told Knona. as best 1iY j from extension 4464 - [ : 2 j you can recall? 1121 A I think it was, Mona, I think we ought to go with, [131 Aa Right.- on November 3rd. i ::; I want to go with Lewinsky, why don’t you call her. I think Cl41 A Right. f 151 it was somethin to that effect. I151 0 Then we have another call that we have ;?a~Ms. 0 Wnd what s~cifically was the position that you and [ 161Lewinsky’s Pentagon office. and we might as well pass ii76jMona planned to offer her. [ 17 lover now. That WIII be WBR-9. 1181 A Well, the osition was a slot previous1 h;tss f181 (Exhibrt WBR-9 was marked 11gjGina Griego that would 8 eal wdh outreach. It would ie I191 for identification.) fzojin New York. And it would involve making sure that our r201 BY MR. BIENERT: [ 211personnel s stem made the adjustment. i21j Q Let me just go ahead and hand that - ;f:;the tape ,f!$ BlENERT: Is this a good time to let you change (221 A Well, I just want to stress that the 4464 calls t23jdoes not mean that I make the call. I mean, we’ve (241 ’ VIDEOGRAPHER: Certainly. 124 jestablished that, or I have, at least. 1251 MR. BIENERT: Is that okay with you, Ambassador I251 Q Well, you have said that. That’s your testimony

Page 99 Page 102 [I 1Richardson? I11 A I said that, yeah. THE WITNESS: Yeah, yeah. Q And we have WBR-9. which has just been placed in I;; (Whereupon, the deposnron was recessed from 11:27 a.m. I:;front of you. And if you look at the bottom of the page, we [ 41 until 11:29 a.m. for a videotape change.) I;; have hrgh~ht$;h~ll. .-,151 BY MR. BIENERT: Q Just for the record during the short break, you Cl And that’s a call, this is from Ms. Lewinsky’s I76iwere looking at some of the exhibits in front of you, and I I ,”; Pentagon office - [ 81 think you’ve indicated that you wanted to make a comment? (81 A R’ ht. A Well, eah. I just wanted to make a comment here t91 Q --To 212-415-4404. I iiiabout this note from I ewrnsky to Betty. “I realized that I101 A R’ ht. 111IArnb. Richardson said his staff would be in touch with me this I111 Q &ch is y our extension, or at least the number 1lzlweek.” I think that’s probably accurate that I said that to [ 12 1assigned ti youG:xtysion. rl3lher. [I31 1141 Q Meaning durin the interview? [I41 Q On November 14th. It was a one-minute and 41- A Yeah that we 13 be back in touch with her that the flsjsecond call at, it looks like, 2~30 in the afternoon. i:z{staff would be back in touch with her. I don’t think I said’ I161 A Right. [ 17 1this week. I just wanted to oint that out. Cl71 Q Do ou see that, sir? I181 Q Okay. Anyt I! rng further on that, sir? 1181 A Yea x t191 A No. Q So, that would have been the next call that we Q Okay. You can go ahead and set some of those ;:&how. t:!{exhibits aside if ou want, just so that they are not in 1211 A Right. t22)yourway so niuX. Q And then we’tt show you as we go along an other 1231 MR. LERNER: Just one more question about this. ~::~calls that we have. I think the next call that we sbow wou d MR. BIENERT: For the record, we are looking at ~24jhave been on November 19th.. So, that’s realty the timing - i:!iWBRB. which is the thank-you tetter. I251 A This is her catttng us?

Page 100 Page 103

Ill BY MR. LERNER: Ill Cl Right. And then the cafl on November 19th which I Q It’s m experience that if I send a letter from 121 guess we’ll ive you now, so we can get to them. which we?l I:iWashington to New + ork that it takes a few days. So, is that f3)call WBR-1 8 t4 j your expenAenceya.+ho? I41 (Exhibit WBR-10 was marked 151 r5i ‘for identification.) Q So if I were to send a letter November 3rd it f61 BY MR. BIENERT: i76iprobably would &received, say. November 6th. on averabe Q And tip look at ihat. this is another copy of tsjobviously. Ii;the page you saw ea rer actually, but just high@hted A Yeah, and then it’ll get processed by my staff. fsldifferently. (:~~So,itcouldbeafewmoreda s. t101 - A R’ ht. Ill1 Q Oh. so it coul cfybe a few more days after a letter Q AR-10 shows the one, two, three, four. fifth call i 12 jis received that ou would actually see it? _ f::;at the bottom - f131 A qeah. yeah. il3j 0 Okay. And you would say that seven to 10 days (141 “0 Yeah.IS a November 19th call from the extension [::;after the interview which was the 31st ou would think that [ 15 1assigned to Mona Kai Sutphen - [ 16I Mona Sutphen laced a call broaching’t e rssue of a job? 1161 1171 A fthink so yeah. That’s !&I recall t %‘_, which is Ms. Lewinsky’s Q Right. The fact that there are no phone calls in I : i ; Watergate residence address. I : i i that period, between Mona Sutphen and Monica Lewinsky, does 1191 A Right. [ 2 o 1that suggest that that memory might be inaccurate? I201 Q So, that’s the series of calts that we show. at A Well I don’t know. What is, what are the phone - [21 lleast up through that art of November. And why don’t we I::{when does it indicate she called her? [221show you the next ca P.I, just so we have completed all the Q There is a later phone call, but nothing in the [ 2 3 1November calls that we have. i::;period that you are su gesting. I241 A Ri ht. (251 A Well. w3, at, two weeks? I251 Q W?tich we’ll call WBR-11.

OlCStarr Page 98 to Page 103 3417

qSA Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAXfII)

Page 104 Page 107

!.: (Exhrbrt WBR-11 was marked 0 But the jobs were different? i’ for identification.) The jobs ulhmately would be different -_ ,.-. ;. BY MR. BIENERT: .J z And they would -- Q WBR-11. sir, is a phone record if you look at the .; A But the sala would be bascally the same. /: i hrghlighted porhoq indicating a call - all of these calls z Q So, I! would X e a slmliar salary. It would have )i I are from Ms. Lewrnskv’s Pentagon_ phone number. : e-different re;ponsrbrlrtres j-1 A .- Different responsibiktres i31 Q %%241!54029 which again is Ms. Sutphen’s 1;. Q And it would be located In a drfferent city, New : Q! extension, a six-minute call on Nbvember 24th. at lo:14 in :>:York - ; 1o I the morning. [ :,: : A Yes. jl:! A Oka j*-:, 1. - as opposed to Washington? I:?) Q So rhen I guess to summarize the progression of 1::‘ 2 Yes. ! I 31 calls that we show in the month of November, is we have the ;:3: Q And is it accurate, sir. that you did not interview i 14iNovember cat&fm~~ extensron 4404 to Ms. Lewinsky. i 14: any one else for that slot/position, whatever we want to cali 1:51 [Ijlit? 1161 Q d then have the November 14th call - t15: A We had other emplo ees that were interested In 117i Aa “_ih’- ( 17! working closer with me. A man by tK, name of Paul Aronsohn. I181 om MS Lewmsky’s Pentagon extension to [~e:who.Cooper ako liked, who was working in the political i 19 j extension 4404 our extension. _ ;;;!secbon at the Missron, and who Coo r also told me, she was i?Ol A &en is that the 18th? I- he was somebody that she would IxsIke to wcrk under him - ,711 Q That’s November 14th. [I 1j under her. .-- 2 I221 A Oka [2,‘! But we also - what happens is, I have a pool of Q We {hen have a November 19th call from Ms. (3 i people that I tatk to. in terms of applications. And I ii: j Sutphen’s extension to Ms. Lewinsky’s home or. sir, I should [24 1remember somebody that l’m impressed with. This is why I’m (: 51 say home phone number in Washington. [ 2 5 1constantly interviewing people.

Page 105

I11 A Right. 0 And then finall in the month of November we have, /:I I thank it was on the 24th the t: ovember 24th call from Ms. I,-, 41 Lewinskv’s~~ work number’at the Pentaaon to Ms. Sutohen. I51 ’ A Okay. 0 All-nght? Now let’s go back to when you would Iti have had the discussion with bs. Sutphen - 181 Aa Rightzmdrcating to her that you were inclined or were r i,‘i oing to direct her to offer a job to Ms. Lewinsky. Okay? 11118 r. to state it differently,,- the conversation you had with (12 IMS. Sutphen when you indicated your intention to offer a job .~..I I 3I to Ms. Lewinskv. (141 A R- ht Q 02 : In that conversation is it accurate that il5j A That’s right, yeah. I :zi Ms. Sutphen told y”oyuat that point words to the effect of Q Ms. Lewmsky was going to be based in New York, I 17I are YOU sure YOU don’t want to interview any other wo&? I%3,ct? iiej - A _ I don’t remember that. _ ’ ilBj A She was going to be based in New York. Q If Ms. Sutphen told investi ators at the 1191 0 Now, Mr. Aronsohn. where does he work? ~:~~lndependent Counsel’s, when interview et?, that that is what t201 A tie’s in New York. [z 11she said to you, do ou believe that it was said; do you Q In New York. When was the position filled by Mr. 122ladamantly believe itywas not said; or do ou not know? I:: ;Aronsohn? I231 A No. she might have said i! . No. A February, March. What month - February or March. Q In any event is it accurate that at whatever time I::;1 think. $,ithat conversation was bad, you had concluded that you weren’t 1251 Q And what’s exactly his title? Does he do exact&

___-_ Page 106 Page 109 f 11 oin to interview other people, but you were going to hire ,2,&s. fewinsky? A Yeah. I think Igota ood senseofLewinsky. I iilthought it was time to move on. Yea9, . I 4 I supervise other Q Now, let’s talk a file bit about the position. I Q &%%e been in the New York office before or was he izl)think you described a lii while ago that she was taking iziin Washin on? [ 71 the position of another lady - I71 tt No, he was in the New York office. 181 A Regina Griego. Q Was he under consideration for this position at the [91 0 Okay. Regina Griego had been in Washington. ii;time that you determined to make the offer to Ms. Lewinsky? rlolcorrect? A I don’t know. I mean I don’t know what Cooper was t111 A Yeah. [itithinking of. I kind of left that position up to her. You I121 0 And that this was - [ 12 I know, ou may wan: to ask her. But she lied this guy. He A She was taking the slot. I mean we were going to r13,isgooJ And she wanted to sort of put him under her aegis. i : : { redefine the position to do more outreach to do public [ 14~That was what she was trying to do. [ ISI affairs, to do advance. So. I mean, I wani that established. Q Now, whenever it was that you decided to make the [ 161 Rebecca Coo r had wanted that and I had agreed with that. i iz ; offer to Ms. Lewinsky and however it was conveyed did you An&en Rebecca Cooper after we interviewed [ 171 have in mind any time parameters within which you would want ;:iiLewinsk told me I think she’s the &St one I like her I ;;;;her to takzthee? I 191 took tha r*very much into account. But it was’ultimateli - mv_ I recall. I told Mona, I said,. offer her the i20 jdecision. - [zoljob. And, you know, we were startin to get tn the midst of Q So. she took a slot. Namely. she became an (211 a very inte+e period of Iraq. A lot o3 other things that 15: iemployee after Ms. Griego had terminated her employment - ndmg were put on the shelf. I recall Mona comi I231 ; Reht. In other words - I::$% ro me and saymg well Lewinsky has asked for a I%e I241 - with your ofice in Washington? [ 2 4 ) time to think about it: ihe appreciates the offer; she wants [?51 A -we had, we had a slot. [:slto think about it And so, I said. all right, well. -

Page 104 to Page 109 olcstarr 3418

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAXIISI

Page 110 Page 113

iii. And then we had Iraq. And at one point. I recall (1; Q Now. I’m assumin that gettrng a ‘ob wrth the [ 21 In December Cooper came to me and sard. well. you know, ~2 IAmbassador to the UN the kin B of lob you are 1alking about _ [ 31 there’s some problem wrth the slot. You know, the Civil [ 3)consrdenng Ms. Lewmsky for. those jobs are pretty much In (4 ;Servrca. I’m having difficulty shifting it from Washington to { Pj demand, czrrect? [ 51New York and, you know, you may have to intervene and fix it. ii: Yeah. they’re in demand, but not terribly in [61 And I think that triggered in my mind, during this I 6I demand. j 7 every Intense period with Iraq, with Mona Sutphen, I said. ii: Cl I mean. IS 1: accurate that.you typically get a [ 9~Mona. what’s happened with Lewinsk She said, well,, she’s, { 3 1good man more appkcants for any postbon than you ( DI ou know. she’s, right now she said s X e wanted more trme to [ 9 1ultimately V1117 1I o1 r- hrnk about it. I said. well, the hell with this we’ve ot 1101 A Yeah. Yeah. but d's -- you are not deluged. men : 111to get movrng. Tell her to fish or cut bait. Tell her w at, [ 111there’s an adverbsed posltlon. when there IS an t 1: lyou know, we have to move on. Tell her, does she want the [ 12lambassadorship.or my chref.of staff position, or my executive : I 3Ijob or not. And Mona, I think, did that. [ l3ldtrector posrtlon In the Washmgton office, press, director I think this was right before the holidays and 1141of press, yeah, there’s a lot of people that apply. But the I :lishortly thereafter she informed me that Lewinsky had was [ 15 1lower-level obs. the lower-level. like this one was, there [ 161 looking for things in the private sector and she wouldr;‘t be [ 161 aren’t a hel I of a lot of applicants. 1171taking the ‘ob. I181 h Now, did - A But I told Lewinsky, I told, I told Mona tell her ~:~~to fish or cut bait. And I think what triggered it was was (2 11a discussion with Coo er telling me. well, you know. this (22 1position that we want Po do, rt” s not that eas to shift the t23ljob from Washington to New York, and I’ve r alked to Wayne and t24t- so, I think Wa ne L sdon. m administrative gu was tzsjexplaining what KO?lad to e done r or that to happen, Il;ecause I

Page 111 Page 114 [ 11wanted to keep that slot as a oliticel slot that I could c11 He’s a friend. We work together. He asked me to interview ~71 name the person. And I didn *Pwant to get it into a [ 21 somebod that he was interested in, and he mentioned she was I 3 jcomplicated personnel situation. (3 1a friend or Betty Curries. As a courtesy, I extended that, So I wanted it fixed and it wasn’t fixed. And so [ 41 that effort. That’s all. That’s all that ha i:lfor that reason it trig ered in my mind, well. whatever [61 happened to Lewins ii y and this job. And that’s when I toM 171 Mona. tell her to fish or cut bait. Is she coming with us or tslnot. I mean, we can, we can only wait so long. I think we (91 had waited about a month or so. [lOI BY MR. LERNER: 0 Is this sometime - you said sometime before the I ::; holidays. p yyeFhean the Christmas holidays? I131 Sir, after you extended the - or after you told (141 Cl So, this is mid-December? [ 14 1Mona Sutphen to call up and extend the offer, did you before [151 A Yeah, close to the holidays, yeah. c15 1 that ever call Ken Bacon? [161 BY MR. BIENERT: I161 A No no. Q Now let’s kind of focus on the time, In the time I171 Q Did ou ever ask Mona Sutphen to call Ken Bacon? i :,‘; between whenever ihe job offer was extended, sometime between r1s1 A Did rask who? rlslthe interview up until, lets say. November 10th 11th. 12th. 1191 Q Ask Mona Sutphen to call - tzotwhatever the timeframe was n there, through the time that t201 t21 J ou believe was dose to the Christmas hokda when you 1211 : No.- Ken Bean? t22 I r;asrcally . told Ms. Sutphen, get in touch with hrs. Lewinsky I221 A No, no. t231about fishing or cut bait, do you know - as we’ve seen t231 Q lsabelle Watkins to call? 124 jthere were some cells back and forth, as you can see from the 1241 A No. I 2 5 1phone records, correct? 1251 Q Is it your standard practice, before extending an

Page 112 Page 115 111 A Yeah. 111offer, to not call the person’s current employer?’ . Q Do you have any recollection of whether or not Ms. A Yeah. I’ve hired a lot ~peo&~;~~z41irq ! : i Sutphen or anyone else was sort of updating ou other than I:itheir employer. I hired Rebecca Coo r [ 4 1that original time when an offer was made a d that final time (4 jemplo er, Is&eke Watkins. I know t ese - some oft e tstwhen you said to Ms. Sutphen, tell Lewinsky to fish or cut I 5 1times Yknow these peo le previously, or I get a gut instinct i 61bait, do you believe that you got any re rts like,, well, [ 61 in the interview. And I PIke the person, I go for the t7 JI’ve heard from Monica again, she wan I? more bme; or, she’s [ 81 still tying to figure this out; or anythmg along those tgjlines. A Well, yeah. I Mona did tell me she said at one I:Fipoint she said, she wants more time- she war& us to to - t12jshe wants ttme to think about it. I think this is what she t lxlsaid. So. that would been one update and Mona may have been [ I 4 1trying to reach her to ask her that. And then Mona updated rlslme.

I191 BY MR. BIENERT: Q On the issue, back on the issue of whether you I:fjwould have had any tele hone conversations with Ms. Lewnsky. tzzjfirst of all. I think you to lcPus earlier on that it wouldn’t t23]be UnUSUal Or Out of the qUestion for you perhaps t0 Call an 124 Iapplicant on a phone about their resume, or about something ’ [ 2 5 1related to their interview, correct?

OIC-Starr Page 110 to Page 115 3419

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAX SI

Page 116 Page 119

A No. When I will call a person it WIII be to say, Q Well. we’ve shown you - . 111 ._ 1 I’d like to intervtew you, are ou interested. that’s the I:! BY MR. LERNER: I reason I would call somebo d y. But after the interview, to I31 Q The call from Mona is November 19th. ’ sort of close the deal -well, no. There have been times (41 BY MR. BIENERT ; when I’ve done it,myself. Q Well, but we have,- I mean, the calls - if the .; Q I guess what I’m - and let me lust ask it thus Iz 1issue is. w; don’g;;ow who is ustng your phone - ‘. way. When you say you don’t believe you spoke to her on the 171 : phone, IS that because you feel like you have a clear cl - extension 4404. we have a call on Novembe_ 3rd. ? recollection and you are clear that you have never spoken to 189iThen we have another call on November 19th. The Novembe- 3rd : 1. her on the phone? Or is that just more, you don’t ty ~cally (10lcall is from your extension. The November 19th call is from :; do that, and you don’t really remember one way or t 1 e otner. [ 11~Mona’s extension. And those are the only records that at : : r : but you don’t think you would have talked to her on the phone [ 121 least we are aware of that indicate calls from your office to : I 3: because it’s not your prachce? [ 131 numbers that we associate with Ms. Lewinsky. A Its not my practice. I, I, I am almost cartarn, I I141 I will state to you, and this is another thing that i iilarn certain that I didn’t talk to her on the phone. I talked [ 1s1 I would ask ou. certainly we would want to know if there is I : 6: to her twice; once in, in the interview; and another time, t16lmore. I thrn.g that we recently did issue another subpoena to I. - .November 15th. I remember. This was my birthday. I went to t17jget. to make sure that we have any and all calls. And the if : ‘dinner with my wife at Club Twen -One and she was there 118lone request I would make of you, d you could talk with your [ ; 3:with. with her mother and some o%ar gy. And she yelled at tlglattomey IS. because it is important to us to know that we :2; :me. And I went from my table to her an we just exchanged [zo] have the entire universe of calls between your office and Ms. j 2: : greetings. [ 2 11Lewinsky - ,_~. I--_ Cl So that - I221 A We, we - wouldn’t you have that already? _--_‘9’7: A So. that was like a verbal communication. 1231 Q I believe we do. But you are asking us about Mat :24; Cl Well let me focus on that for ‘ust a second. 124lcalls there are, and I’m basically tellin you the ones that :: 5: because in terms of running into Ms. Lewins I, y at the Twenty [25]we are aware of. And the only Issue t% ere would be if there

Page 117 Page 120 ! : ; One Club now, on November 15th. based on what we’ve [ 1lare some other calls that you have records of, certainly we -): discussed before do you agree that this is a time that is 12Iwould ask that ou produce them. ; 5i likely after the offer had been made to her? :. - [31 A Well no. I don’t have any other. ;4: A I don’t know. Q So, anyway those are the two dates in the morth of ,.-_,c- Q We& when we spoke a little earlier, you - I:jNovember that we are aware of, the calls coming from your :5: A IsatdlOdays,aweekorlOda s. [6]0fflrX - ._. Q After October 31st. So. that go r us up to like, I t71 A The 3rd and the 19th? i 5i think we were saying the 8th through like the 11 th or the Q Yes. And then we had - because the ones on me 13: 12th. Ii; 14th and the 24th. I believe, were from her extension to you . ~. .--. A Yeah, it could be. Yeah, it could be. r101guys. ,... Q Do you think that you mtght have said something to A Well, it could be that, that the call - somebody iii i the effect to her, in the presence of the other peo le there. t::{called her and she returned the call and got the offer in the [:3; like, hey, and hey, the balls in your court, or wor s s to 113 ] return call. I don’t know. Right? I : I : that effect? [I41 Q Well, we’re not going to speculate. t151 A Yeah. Q But I guess the point is, would you agree with !:76;this: However it was done, it was initiated, the offer was [ 1B 1 initiated byAYou;zFhze in a call? 1191 Q AMI so we are telling you based on the information i:i;we have, which records we have showing calls from your .--.~122lOffice. ~~ I.231 A Yeah. I241 1251 A” &%kM be that the offer was made in a retun

Page 118 Page 121 [ : 1impressive daughter, or somethi like that. I I 1call from Lewinsky to my office. 12: But I, I don’t think I sa I? anything more than I21 r3:that. It was, it was in a restaurant. 2 %?tyl it might not have been done in the call Q Okay. All right, lets shift gears a little bit. ! : i that we initiated. Now I can’t say whether November 18th j:iVemon Jordan. [sIthat she’d been offered this. I mean, I. I don’t remember on ;6: (Exhibit WBR-12 was marked [ 61 the 15th sa ing to her, the offer, the ball’s in your court. ;3j for identification.) [7 ] I think I sa icr that I thought she was impressive and - you MR. BIENERT: This is VVBR-12. Mr. Lemer. you have [ 81 know, I, I can’t remember all this stuff. I mean, I’m iiisorne questions? [ 9jdealtng with a national crisis, believe me. BY MR. LERNER: [I01 Q Oka . Let’s shift gears to discuss Vernon Jordan. [111 A Yea K. 1121 Q How well do you know Mr. Jordan? A Well, I’ve known him for about, I would say about I::ieight. nine ears. 61 Why don’t you tell us how you met him. Describe !:ziyour relationshi wrth him. A fwould say we’re friends colleagues. I would say !:iithat I’ve looked to him for advice. He h6s helped me with [ 19jcareer advice. He’s - I remember when I was staffing my offered something” - yeah, well, tzojambassadon. I called him for sug estions. I have been a Lb_r-3 . you’ll have to ask Mona. I mean. isn’t - I 2 11 uest at his home when the Prest 8 ent was first ejected in ip;- 0 Ri ht. 12213 992. We know each other. But I wouldn’t call ourselves a :23: A Is Q ere a call from -when did Mona call her? Do t 23 1very dose relatiinshi 124!we have - But I’ve cal Ped him for advice. I always find him ’ 125: BY MR. BIENERT: i::;to be very politically astute and, you know, we discuss

Page 116 to Page 121 OlCStan 3420

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson. 4/30/98 XMAX(21)

Page 122 Page 125 ‘. policy and polihcs But it’s not a very frequent kind of 0 And I’m gorng to maqe a few other representatrons : !. relabonshi : to yc, and then I’m going to ask ycJ some questions _ 7’ 6 NGH begtnntng with when ou took over as I’ll also represent to you !nat we’ve had :;-Ambassador up tnrough. say, January oft K.IS year, how many ; -test:-onial evidence as well as douments rndicatin that Mr .s : times would you say you have spoken on the phone with Mr. ! Jorua’l met with &lonic+a Lewrnsky on December 11 t ! , dlscussed : -. Jordan? r with %r poAsslble jobs In New York ,- A ‘Stnce I took over as Ambassador? Right. !S‘ Q Yes sir. Q And let me ask you a uestion first, sir. Have you ‘2’ A On the phone? :-come to any understandlng. whether 9I be through press 1--/.-’ Q Uh-nuh. . accounts or any other sources, tha: Mr Jordan alleged1 :;:: A Two three times. 11 plac& any r made any efforts to n&p Ms. Lewrnsky ge r a job !:I’ Q And then how many times would you say you have met 1: : at any rndrvrdual companres In New York? [ 13 with him in person since taking over as Ambassador7 __: A Yeah. throuah Dress accounts A Weil. we had breakfast once at my residence. I, I .-,. Q And what tim’ anles. to your knowledge, was that: i t 5j had, I was in the month of December kind of lookin for some .--. A I don’t know. B ubkc relations. t14:career advice, and I had wanted to et together wrt.i! hrm here .--. Q Based on the press accounts you’ve seen, are you 1I- 1in Washington. And I recall we ma 8 e a date and then we had : : -: aware of allegahons that Mr. Jordan placed calls to Young & 1121to cancel. Then hrs office, I think, told us he was going to : : 5I Rubrcam. American Express. and Revlon? t :glbe in New York. So. I invrted him to breakfast. .-*.;.-. A Well, I know throu h press accounts. But 1, I _\ When else during that year? I remember going to ::r;donY know the companies. I don s remember. ._.. Is;; his office ri ht before ! was confirmed. And then I saw hrm .--I Q All right. Well, I’ll represent to you, sir, that t~iat a party a?I out a month a o. That’s it. ::r :we’ve had at least testlmon , just by way of background, that I231 And I. and I. but 9 may have seen him at White : I 3; there were calls placed b I 241 House State dinners or receptions. But no, no conversation. I: 4: Amencan Fprgs,;nd F&&nJordan to ‘Oung ’ Rubicam’ ._<. I251 Q Okay. When you need to get in touch with Mr. i--_

Page 123 Page 126 t : 1Jordan, are there any particular locales or numbers that you --. Q And now directing your attention to this series of [z 1have your secretary call him at? Do you call him at home?. i 5i calls. ou’ll note that the calls here. the earliest one is t31Do you call him - :3:at 9:4 J a.m.. and the latest one is at 1:07 p.m. Do you see [41 : 41 that. sir? 15! Aa !?a~l-at hrs office? .-..:> A Yeah. Is this, is this all the same day? [61 A - him at his office. -1 0 Yes, sir, it is. It’s all on December 11 th. And [‘) Q And his office being where to your knowledge? .-: I’ll indicate to you we’ve alS0 had testimon and documenta I81 A Here in Washington Akin Cump. i 5 : evidence of a meeting by Mr. Jordan with h s. Lewinsky on tx at Q So do ou feel conkdent that any calls that you :8;day. tj:jwould have originated ! o s&reak with Vernon Jordan would have .._l A Okay. ..--_ . . . [ : : : been directAedt;;th4krn ump - .--I_ Q And ou’ll note that the phone records at least [:2: : :r : rndicate that the cal lys from Mr. Jordan’s office went to, [I31 Q - law firm office? ! : 31 among others rsons at Young 8 Rubicam. American Express - Ll4! A Yeah, I don’t even think I have his home number ::4: A ’ t$ght. [ISI Q And to the d ree that Mr. Jordan has contacted IOU t15: - and Revlon. Do you see that listed? (15jsince you’ve been Ambassa 7 or, would there be any particular IIS: 2 Yeah. I 171 location or numbers that, to your knowledge. he’s contacted [IT! Q Okay. And I guess my question to you is. what did ilsiyou at? [ ; 8 1you and Mr. Jordan talk about that day. A I don’t think he’s ever called me at the U.N. His A Well I don’t think I talked to him. This - I !:zioffice will call lsabelle at the U.N. oftice. If. but I. YOU tl?lthink he called Isab&e. ii I j know, I even think on the telephone we ma’y havgspoken twice tzzjma be before I was confirmed. But, and ma once during my ::s: g gr?% office called isabelle And I think it’s 1z31tJ.x . tenure. And then we did have that mee r””mg. (233 relating to the - I wanted to see him, and we were trying to But the oma? dune&my U.N. tenure was early on [24:schedule it. IEiwhen I was - I remember ta ng Hnth hurt about personnel 1251 Q AndwhatwasitthatyouneededtospeaktoMr.

Page 124 Page 127 tljmatters. [ : j Jordan about? Q Oka _ Well Pm oing to show you a series of A You know, it’s just career advice. I hadn’t seen ~:l’calls that I’m going I o ask ‘ou a %out. i:i him in awhile Just sta ing in touch. 141 fExhibi!WBR-13 was marked t41. . Q ’ Okay. I&w if this was something that was 151 for identiication.) I 51 rnrtiated b you then want& to see him, would you expect 161 BY MR. BIENERT: [ 6; then, sir, tK at we wou.M see at least sometime in this rough 0 I’m going to make a few representations to you and ; 7: time period before this call. a call from your office to Mr. iii 1’11ask you some queshons. Okay. : s 1Jordan’s office? First of all. l’ll direct your attention to Exhibit i9! A Well, lt could be, we also invited him to some I :,‘;WBR-13 which, as you can see, contains 10 separate phone I 10:events. some dinners. And it could be that his office was .__,~r I I I calls. ~.~~ &red? ~~~ 11:j calling and saying he couldn’t come. We had some social I121 A Rght t:z:event%. 1131 Q And if you’ll look at these, 1’11represent to you . Q And when you say invited him, how would those I 14Ithese are based upon phone records - 1: ,’ ! invitations be conducted? 115: il5j A Through m protocol office. : RishL- obtained b the OftTce of Independent Counsel, 1161 C! Meaning tet phone calls, or - ::76iand that all of these calls re t e to phone calls laced on 117: A Telephone calls and in writing. I I eI December 11 th from Vernon Jordan’s office. Bka y? Q Now, the protocol office. that would be actually - i : z : if we were looking at phone records, that would be a record ~ts;that aduall r~~y;~rack to UN. Protocol Qffrce? 12’ : x 12:: Q Or somethi like that? A Yeah, yeah.“35 ow, what - but, this is December $:;,,th? t25: Q Yes, sir.

OIC-Starr Page 122 to Page 127 3421

Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAXlZ2

Page 128 Page 131 A Yeah I mean, this could be relahng to -- oh, I ; 1jmatters when we had CL- breakfast ; j think I know what :: s ;2> Q Have yoti ever drscussed ersonnel matters, rn :e,-s II Q What’s that? I 31 of, you know. any pan:c;ia: oerson. whet 1 er to hire them or ‘J! A I had - one of those dates, I had a. a, around 14!not. wrth Vernon Jordar IO our knowledge? ~!those dates I had an event for the Presrdent at my residence ;:1 A Well. yean + here was one of m deputies. I 61 Q And what would the event have been, do you know? 16lwanted an African--Amensan deputy and I cake J him for 7, A Thus - yeah. Thus was 10 p.m I rnvrted some of ;,!suggesttons Thts was early In my admtnrstratton. i 3 ; - some peo le as mends over after a retty rough day. And 1’71 Q Oka t 91I think, I thin.R Jordan is respondmg to Phe mvltation (?I A And Y odn’: nlre the person he sent me. :il1 sy M4RndL~~I&u say - [?Oi Q ;$io;e;i;erview hrm7 i?] ;11; A 121 Q I think you might be recallin December 9th. I :1:1 Q That would have been In early 1997? : 3 1think ou and the President attended the 5 8 th anniversary of iI31 A Yeah. That would have been in January or February 141 the Myuseum of Jewish Heritage, or at least newspaper accounts Cl41 Cl Now, I’ll also direct our attentron to what we are : 5 Jreflect that. [lslgoing to call Exhlblt WBR-14. whr x IS another list of phone 161 A Yeah. t16jrecords. 1’1 Q And on December 10th. I don’t know whether you Cl71 (Exhibd WBR-14 was marked 181 attended an event wdh the President at the Rainbow Room for [I81 for identification.) I 91 the Democratic Hispanic - I191 BY MR. BIENERT: ijoi A No. no I didn’t. Q I’ll represent to you. sir, if ou look at the top 1211 Q No? You didn’t attend that? I:Flof that pag;, yo;;g;~ that rt says Akrn d ump? 1221 A I didn’t. (221 I231 Q Are those the events that ou had in mind when - Q That these are phone records reflecting calls from A Yeah. And it could be tha ty he’s calling back and !::;one ofthe three phones assoaated with Mr. Jordan’s office I:: I saying why he couldn’t come, or - t25)to other places. And if you’ll look at the highlighted call

Page 129 Page 132 Q But this would be - that event was December 9th. I 1 I at the bottom, that call. d’s the second to last one on the I: i and these hone calls are December 11 th. .izlpaae. ,. _ December 15th. 953 a.m. - R Yeah. No I didn’t - I don’t - I am almost t31 ; Yes. i:;certain I didn’t talk to him’December 11 th. I’m almost - to _ which I’ll represent to you is the [ 51 absolutely sure. I don’t even think I’ve ever talked to i :; Watergate Hotel. [ 61 Vernon on the hone from my office. t61 A Right. [71 BY JR. BIENERT: 171 Q Now, first of all. just looking at the schedule, 0 So. when you sa you are almost certain that you (8) December 15th would have been a Monday. Do ou have any way ~~~wouldn’t have spoken to him on 5 ecember 1 lth is that because tslof knowin whether you would have been at the XI atergate Hotel .~o)you feel confident you didn’t speak to him at all in the rlolon Decem % er 15th? ’ 1: 1month of December. for example, on the phone? Or is that ilij A No. But I’m sure we could find out. 121 because you have some specific reason why on the particular 1121 0 Do you have any remembrance of getting a call, or I 31day of December 11 th you couldn’t have spoken to him? r13leven a messa e, at the Watergate Hotel that Vernon Jordan had A Well, I had breakfast with htm. t14lcalledforyou. B ;::; 0 And I’ll just tell you - t151 A No, but it could be that we were t ing to set up 1161 A When was the breakfast? 1161the meeting durin that Period. That was the tasrty week 0 The date of that, at least according to records [ 171 before I went off Por Chnstmas. And it could be that his i:iithat we have, was I believe January 6th. So, that would tlsloffice was t ing to track us down. 1think we had a meeting [ 191 have been a few weeks later. rlslset and I haI to cancel, as I recall or he had to cancel. t20 1So. it could be that this was a back and forth on, on that t21 ischeduled meeting. And it could be that they called the t22 1Watergate. t231 Is this a call that came to me? Q It’s a call that went to the Watergate Hotel. So. I::; I’m asking you if you think it couid have gone to you?

Page 130 Page 133 A No. Well. no, it couldn’t - 953. I’d be doing I:;something. I wouldn’t be sitting around the hotel. t31 Q Okay., (41 “0 l$tE.ts tn the morning? t51 (61 A No. None whatsoever. I61 A So. it could be his staff tryin to reach me to set 0 Did he ever indicate to you in an way anything in (7 1up a meeting or trying to find, connect wtth 9sabelle. Ii 1relation to whether he used the name or not at rhe time Q So the bottom line is you have no idea whether [ 91someone ihat you believe might have been a reference io Ii;that was even to you or your office, dut it could have been? tlo)Monica Lewinsk ? t I o 1You just don’t know? A t&t at all. He never mentioned her name [Ill A Well, is this to my room? t :: i whatsoever. 1121 Q No, sir. That’s wh I’m asking. Q Did you ever mention to Mr. Jordan or suggest to I131 A Oh, yeah, no. Pro r; ably not to me. i ::; him, that there was anyone refened to you by Mr. Podesta or I141 Q If you recalt? Ri ht that’s what I’m asking. I [ 151 anyone, but that you would have been referencin Monica 1151mean. YOUiust have no wav of &nowma. *. [ 161Lewinsky. that you were engaged in any kind of 8 lscussions i16j - A No. - ” [ 17 1about a job with? 0 YOU certainty, as you sit here now. you have no A None whatsoever. Monica Lewinsky’s name never came i :i; basis to conclude that you - I:ilup in my conversation with Vernon Jordan whatsoever. I191 Q And when you sa her name didn’t come up, are you I201 “0 No.- would have spoken with him on December 15th? ii;; also qqing that there was no re fyerence to someone who turned A No. I realty almost think I have not spoken to him ~22 lout to be hz w;Ether her name was - i::l)on the phone, period. I231 Q All right. Now, let me shift to another subject. ~ 1241 Q - used or not? i::ll’rn assuming that you are at least general1 familiar based 125; A That’s right. We didn’t discuss any personnel [zj ion press accounts if nothmg else, with the ‘fact of the Paula

_~ Page 128 to Page 133 OlCStarr 3422

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAXI231

Page 134 Page 137 Jones lawsuit. But, no. I did not speak to Jordan This must have A Yeah. ’ been to lsabelle relatrng to the breakfast or the meehng Q And that you would have been aware of the exrstence > .that we were going to have In early January : of the Paula Jones lawsuit In late 1997. correct? Q And. srr. I’ll make a further representatron to you A Yeah. ;, that, based on teshmony in the rand jury as well as records Q Now, have you ever had any conversations of a < .we’ve obtained, that December 3 2nd was the da that Mr ’ -substantive nature with anyone at the Whrte House about the -,Jordan brought Monica Lewinsky to an attorney g y the name of : Paula Jones lawsuit. name$about Issues. strategres, what 2.Frank Carter, after being advised by Ms. Lewinsky that she ;. should or shouldn’t be done. ;’ had been subpoenaed in the Paula Jones case to testrfv A No. Remember, I’m in New York. I’m not - as a ‘L., A Right. : : : _... : : forergn polic Cabinet member, I don’t articipate in any /-- Q Do you have any basis to believe that Mr Jordan 1. .domeshc po rtrcs or discussions or fun s.rarsers. So, the : :z’would have tried to contact you on the day that he addressed ,I: answer is n! __:. Ms. Lewinskv’s subpoena in the Paula Jones case. about 0 Have you ever just - I assume this is included In 7..-q anything related to Monica Lewinsky? iii ‘that. but I just want to make clear. Have you ever had any A No, no. I never talked to him that day. I think [ : 6. conversations with President Clinton about anything related ii; j he called, they called lsabelle about the scheduling. [ : - : to the Paula Jones lawsuit? I:“ Q And are you absolutely one hundred percent sure in i:E: A No. Nothing whatsoever. I i Ei your testimony that at no time did Vernon Jordan ever, !l>l 0 Have ou ever had any conversations with any of ! 14Iwhether it was a call, a written communication or anything in [: z President Clinton’s a x omeys or persons that ou believed non, communicate anything to ou that related to Monrca ; r : : were acting on his behalf in that lawsuit abou r the Paula [“?e : : ; ewrnsky or the Paula Jones case.b I.--. 2: : Jones lawsuit? [2’; A I am a hundred percent absolutely sure. 123: A No. Q When did you first learn. and how did you first 124: Q Have you ever had any discussions with Vernon I::ileam, that Ms. Lewinsky was somehow implicated or you know, f-5 :Jordan about the Paula Jones lawsuit? (~5: noted as a possible witness in the Paula Jones case?

Page 135 Page 138 - A No. ,-. A Well, like everybod else in the world. I was at ._ 0 Now, let me show you another series of phone calls, is i the Wate ate Hotel ironically, an rI the press reports came j: : and thus is goin to be on December 22nd. ; 31 out, I don ? know, the momin of - it was in Janua And ::: r 4; that’s when I first heard abou9. it. That’s when I firsr _r..-_ A aka~hi~~~BP;;3”s marked : 5: heard Monica Lewinskv’s name in connection with this oroblem .-.i i 6 j It was the first time. _ .-. BY MR. BIENERT: about - you made no Q This is Exhibit WBR-15. Sir, 1’11represent to you ou reason or tz’ that these are another corn ilation or ‘ust a little uick i;z.summa of phone calls In.6! rcated in p c,one recor 2 s for the 1:: date of 3 ecember 22nd, and you’ll notice there are three 7..-- - calls~~ on here. correct? :-:,--. A Yeah. [lj: Q And I’ll tell you, for purposes of a reference, I I:<. Q And you will see, sir, that there is the first call [ 14! believe it started hitting the ress around, as far as the i 15 : on here, at 4:59 p.m. [ 151 mainstream press, around 9 anuary 2Oth, 21st, in that [:I: A Rrght. 1161timeframe. Q From Vernon Jordan’s office to the White House A That’s right, and I believe we had ended m office /ii i operator. Do you see that? i :i i had ended our contact with Monica Lewinsky when I I tol dy i13: A -Yeah. [ 191 Mona to find out, to have her fish or cut bait, and she told I?“..--. Q It was two minutes and 12 seconds. f2ojme - I don’t know if it was in December or January - 12’: A Right. L211 0 Okay. We& let’s - rzz1 Q You’ll see that the next call was from Vernon t221 A - that Momca was pursuing other tions. [23)Jordan’s Oft&. Cl All right. We’ll o ahead and lock ?a the next 124: A Right. I : : ; exhibit. wh-rch taE&bit WBR-!6. I251 Q Four minutes later to Monica Lewinsky’s Pentagon f251

Page 136 Page 139 l: ; off& number, and it was just 18 seconds. 111 (~!!$;pwE!$6”.,Wasmafkd I2; A Right. 121 C! Very short. Then ou’ll notii that immediately 131 BY MR. BIENERT: I:! thereafter at 504 there is a call ): om Vernon Jordan’s Q Sir lf ou’ll take a look at this, this is a copy [ 5; office to at least ybur office, aithougb not your individual ~:~ofane-mailthatIbefy ieve we got from your office. It says ; 6: extension;Fmb;issafor Rtchardson s off&, U.N. Office - [ 61 on it Lynn Martindale. Who is Lynn Martindale? 17: 171 A She is head of-well, she is the personnel Q -2 124154402 which I believe, if we recall from [ 8I person. I z i the other records, would be M;. Watkins’ - t91 Q And where is she located? cioi 1101 A InNewYork. 11:: Aa FghLoffice. Do you see that, sir? Ill1 Q So, she works for you in New York?

[‘z:I A Yes. t1.21 A Yeah. Q And that would have been a minute and 24 seconds, 1131 Q Then it’s from Wavne- Lwsdon._ Who is Wavne i :: j is that right? i 14 j Logsdon? 115: A Right. A He is the head of the administrative department, Q Do you know whether or not you would have gotten a 1:z; In other words L nn’s boss at USUN. I : f 1messa e or a phone call from Mr. Jordan that you are aware of Q *day. Then it says, cc: Peter Budeigh. Who is [ 1s : aroun dgDecember 22nd? I:iithat? 113: A No. I think what it is, it’s setting u this A He is my number two ambassador. He’s sort of the [z;.breakfast that went through several recesses, &anges, or i:ilmanager of the Mission. i 2: ‘set up this meeting. As I recall, on & ce.mber 22nd, may Q And then you’ll see here it sa s Subject: Monica 12:: have even been out of the country, because I either left the I:: ilewinsky; Date: Tuesday, December 23rd. fhen it says “Tn. [ 23 .22nd. 23rd. 24th,. I went to Mexico for a vacation. So, I [23! tf this name po s up on your screen, it is one the Ambassa or ~24 -don’t even know d I was in town the 22nd. I might have 124 ; has in mind of nn ing on board as a secretary I believe. 2 [:s:been. [:slMore to wme !s’l%now it.

OlCStarr Page 134 to Page 139 3423

-_ Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4130198 XMAXW)

Page 140 Page 143 A Right :: IanythIng Could have been before I don’t rememoer. I . Q Do vou see that? I: 3remember seerng Betty rn the basement of the Wntte House :’ A ‘ [j where I alwa s have my meetrng That’s where you bump Into Q %“Ao you a ree then based on thus e-mail that i 4: everybody 8 ould have been at a Christmas event I can’t ; at least as of December 23r %, the offe’r to MS Lewrnsky was IS!remember c ,still pendin 7 15 But I think It was, I thank it was -- I don’t w Yeah : 7! remember whether rt was before or after the offei. or the Now - ! 91 Interview I don’t remember 2 Well let’s see. I told Mona to fish or cut bait !9: Q Drd - : {lion Lewrnsky. I think rt was rn December. I satd. you know, ilO! A It was after the rnten/iew. i ‘ust find out where thus thrn IS; is she with us or not. I (11; Q Right. But you don’t know whether it was before or ;:-,i: ::. hrnk rt wasQbefore the holr.8 ays.. (1L’ i after the offer? . ..~. Now. can ou thank of any reason why the name would Cl31 A Yeah. iii iquote po up. rn terms o Y someone’s screen or Issues, and Q But clearly it was not - it was definrtely before j ;s jspecifical P&Lynn Martrndale around that timeframe? i : :j Ms. Lewinsky ultimately conveyed that she did not want to !:O’ Well, yeah, because 1thank as I told you, Cooper 1161take the offer? I:- jmade me aware of the problem with shifting the .ob from I171 A Yeah, yeah. 1:s !Washrngton to New York. Wayne Logsdon wou Id do thus through I181 Q And did MS Currie ever make any statements of ::slMartindale. rl9!re nition. indicating that she knew that you were doing Q So. you believe then that this - is it accurate 12s 1thrs co? or her, for Monica Lewinsky? !zyjthen that your assum tion is that this e-mail mght have had (211 A No. Not at all. isi fsome relation to the R ct that around this timeframe the Q Okay. Any other communication to anyone about any [ 23 ! whole issue of shifting the job to New York was coming up as !::tstatus of Ms. Lewinskv? !:4 la procedural matter? A No. - [ZSI A Well. it could have been a little earlier. You’d Q Other than people in your office?

Page 141 Page 144 She was engaged in these talks with A No. I - this was my decision to hire her. I did I:; not do it under any pressure or an hrng. I felt that she 131 would be suitable for the job, and ?.’drdn t feel I had to 141 report to anybod It’s not in my nature. I51 0 d(kay well - A I don’t take pressure well on personnel matters. 176jAnd John Podesta is a friend and Betty Currie is a friend. Island I was - Q Well, let me ask you this. It was John Podesta. [ :i{you have told us who asked you to interview her, correct? [III A Yes. Q And when you set out to have your secretary get I ::i ahold of the resume, you were doing that as a favor to John (14 1Podesta. correct? 1151 A I was interviewing her. I was trying to be i 16j responsive to John eah. He’sa friend. _ _ And’lwas at least your belief at that time that i i 9 ; Wayne, too. in motion the interview, which [i91 BY MR. BIENERT: Lewinsky, was stemming Q All right. We’ll o to the next exhibits we have I:‘: 1which are going to be two exhr rts. [?21 (Exh’bits W& 17 and WBR 18 ,771 weA marked for identiicati&.) [231 A Yes es. BY MR. BIENERT: - Q And ?m not asking you right now whether you were Q White we are getting those ready, let me ask you, I::; pressured. What I’m asking you IS a liils different.

Page 142 Page 145 t I ldid you at any time during this process, either directly or 111Wouldn’t you,, under those circumstances, feel it natural or [ 21 through one of our subordinates or assocrates. communicate [ 2 1 normal to nobfy John Podesta of the status of the person who [ 3 jwith either Mr. 6 odesta’s oftice of MS: Cume about the [ 3 lyou got a resume from, interviewed, and offered a job to, as f 41 status of althrng related to Ms. Lewrnsky? [ 4 J a resutt of John Podesta’s request? Not wrth John Podesta whatsoever. At one point I 151 A No. I mean, John Podesta’s a friend. He’s Deputy i 2i bumped into Betty Cunie I believe in the basement of the ts]Chief of Staff. I’m a Cabinet member. I don’t have to ,,lWhite House. And I said something to the effect, you know, I [ 71 account for anything. He asked me to interview somebody. i B1 interviewed your friend, I liked her, and Betty hugged me and ts]That’s all he asked me to do, is interview her, and I (91 that was the end of it. It was like a chance encounter. [ 91interviewed her. And I didn’t feel I had to sa John, I Q ‘Did she hug you like almost as a resutt of the [ 101 interviewed her; or, John, this is the status. Wh y should I? i:Plinterview or did she hug you first because it’s your normal [ 1I jThis was my m choice my decision. And I stand behind it. [ 12Iway of grezting and then you toM her thrs? Q ’ dkay. And we’ll o to the next two exhibits. Now, I think she hugged me afterwards. She’s a very, 1:: i if you look at these WBR-17 an %WBR-18. If you look at the i i 2i she’s very effusive. She’s very hug ing. That’s how she is. [ 14 1 bottom here, at the’bottom of this page there is a call, Q Do you believe that t8. IS chance encounter where you t 1s 1according to the record, that was placed on January 5th, i :: i relayed this information would have been obviously after you r1611998. t : 71 interviewed her, Monica,. but would it have been before the i17i A Right. 1I 31 job offer or do ou think rt was after the ob offer? [1Bl AQ k{y see that, sir? A 7 don’t remember. It cou Id have been before or I191 tS:iafter. I - Q At 11:32. It was a one-minute call. And I’ll [?ll Q Did - ::;1’represent to you, str. that this phone number, where it says [ZZ! A It m‘ ht have been after. ~22 1 D. Finerrnan - _ 1231 Q Did?ls. C urn‘e say_ anything. to you in response to 1231 i 5 r j the informition? “a tight.IS the phone number of Ms. Lewinsky’s aunt who !?5’ No. She, she just hugged me. She didn’t say :::;lives at Watergate, and who we’ve had testimony that Ms. _-

Page 140 to Page 145 OIC-Starr 3424

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAUZS)

Page 146 Page 149 r : Lewinsky would %quently stay at her house ,_l, ,- A O

- Page 147 Page 150 1: 1timewise, that if you look at the first para p.raph I which [I 1and I didn’t even know about it. And so I think there was a I?.-, Ideals with an unrelated person named 0 re Olrvas - ot back that he had [3! Aa Yeah-- you’ll see that about midway thro h, it’s t :I referring toAsomYy;; talkrng to Ben on Monday or ? uesday - I61 Q - which was the 29th or 30th. and then talking ii jabout an e-mail that had been sent on Friday, January 2nd. [ 91 Do you see that7 IlO! A Yeah. [I:1 Q Now. based on these. two documents - [Ill A Yeah. 1121 MR. LERNER: C,“,“,~we tntroduce this document also? Q This once again is an Akin Gump document. And if Cl31 MR. BIENERT: i::iyou look at e hrghlghted call, I’ll represent to you that 1141 (Exhibit WBR-19 was marked j;:jnumber.a- IS one of Mr. Jordan’s secretary’s extension. [15i for identification.) A Right. 1161 BY MR. BIENERT: Q And then it’s to 212-415-4398, which according to Q Just so that you will know, what we’re trying to do I:tlour records is the U.S. Mission to the U.N. Do you see that 1171 ..n.ciR [ 181 here is bra$et+z;me - LIO,“’ : [191 A Right. right. That’s probably to set up the Q - when perhaps the finel declination was i:zibreakfast. $~~communicated. That’s why I’m showing ou these documents. 0 Okay. That’s what I was goi to ask you, do you I221 $i~.d&~:p~&our$‘$@&t$ I&It dof$zgbecause _ is I:: 1have any understanding of what that call mg.T! t be about? A Well, yeah, it was robably relating to the i::;this l7? I::; breakfast that - when did I have g reakfast with Jordan? I251 MR. BIENERT: Yes. t251 MR. LERNER: The next day, the 6th.

_ Page 148 Page 151

111 MR. LERNER: Okay. 1:11 THE WITNESS: Well, that’s probably what it was (21 8Y MR. LERNER: ?I about. [31 Q So. 17 reflects an 11:32 phone call - Ii.1 BY MR. BIENERT: I41 BY MR. BIENERT: Q And is it accurate that as far as this breakfast Q From Ms. Lewinsky’s aunt, where we know she stayed, /ii&;+ _vou __ had..__ with_.. ..;Mr. Jordan.__ __.. th$o;~;t;omething that at I z 1to Mona Sutphen. .-. sf got set in motion on your i7j A’ Rrght. 171 A At mv_ reouest. at mv initiative. I.81 Q And then if you kook at the highlighted portion of iei rs,Exhibit._,~ 19. sir. the one that s on the too - [9! g I%%-month of December, or - as I recounted I101 6 Yeah., [lojearlier. ou II see that the highlighted portion shows a 1111 0 And once again, I just want to make sure we are 1ii ;csll four minutes‘b ter at 1136. a two-minute call. from ~12jctear on the record, is it our testimon that any f13j415-4398. which - [ 131 communication on this dyate, January Yth, between Mr. Jordan’s 1141 MR. LERNER: No. it’s frcnn Akin Gump. 1I 4 ] office and yours, at least to your knowledge, would have 1151 MR. BIENERT: Oh, I’m sorry. I’m looking at a ~151 nothing to do wrth Monica Lewrnsky or any of the matters i16jdifferent one. [ 161 attendant to her7 MR. LERNER: The number dialed is the U.S. Mission 1171 A Absolutely. i:ilto the UN. Protocol office. ilSi Q So, now, 1 actually want to ask ou - and let me MR. BIENERT: Oh, I see. Ite got it. I got a f 19 j gave you the next exhibit which I uess is WB R-20. Itzldifferent one. Oka I201 (Exhibit WBR-!!O was marked [211 BY MR. ZIIENERT: [211 for identification.) ,771 Q Well. let me back UD on this then. First of all, [221 BY MR. BIENERT: iI;jlet’s come back to that document then. We’ll start - [231 -Q I’m going to ask you about this, and ask you if you I241 A Okay 18? { 24 ] even know what these references refer to. beCaUSe this iS - :15! Q The f%st two. [‘51 I’ll represent to you that this is something that we got from

OlC-Starr Page 146 to Page 151 3425

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAX(26)

Page 152 Page 155 : ‘your office based on our request for documents relatrng to > A No, no r; It had simply to do with I didn’t want ? Monica Leirns%ght. iiito lose thus slot. When xs this. In January’ ‘31 Q Yes, su These are dated January 5th. ;;. - et cetera I41 A No, no And I filled, I’ve fi..ed. I’ve filled the Right. ; 5;slot. Cl And we’re not exactly sure what this document IS Q I’m sorry Just so you’ll see the first one t and we are hoorna that YOU could shed some ltght on it. it /starts Decembe;e2a3hrd 1; A ‘RiGht. _ 13: A (3’ Q And I think ust for purposes - ou may be more 19; Q Wh!ch acually. if you thank about rt. ties In with :n: astute than me, but somet c,rng that took me a rrttle whrle to [ 1o 1 the one weAsawo$;ttie wnlle ago - :: -figure out is, I think usually rf you start at the bottom [Ill ::,wrth these thrnos and go up - [1?1 if-Y ha name pops up on your screen. That - 12 ;13: 2 Yeah :;, that’s chronological, to take them in reverse. 114; -was December 23rd. A Oka Well, this IS what I was tetkng you earker ,--,il5, AQ Okav. 12 j that there was con Y.usron over the slot at one I161 Q And’then they continue on to January 5th. : 7; personnel people wanting to give away a Cl71 A Yeah. 191 make it into Foreign Servrce. which I wou Q Okay. Now let’s go to, next we’ll o to our I 91 to, because it eliminates my ability to choose somebody. I :“,i breakfast. We have your itinerary for that day. TZis w,1; So I had, I think. spoken to Wayne Logsdon and [?o]beWBR-21. ip i said Wayne ‘you know, I want this Fore’ n Servrce position 1211 (Exhibit WBR-21 was marked 22 ;- I don’t want it a Foreign Service, I wan P to leave it the [??I for identification.) olitical slot. I want to move it from [231 BY MR. BIENERT: ew York. Make it happen. Donlt - where are - Q Do you recognize this as being a copy of a schedule want to make it a Forergn Servrce slot. I::lyou would get?

.~ ~~ ~___._ __~ Page 153 Page 156 : I : It’s not a secretarial slot, so keep it a Schedule C. I 111 A Yeah. (2; think that’s what it is. : 0 And does this a pear to be an accurate reflection Cl Now, if you took at the, what I’m oing to say is I3 1of your sct~Aedul;;;r Tuesday, s anuary 6th. 1998? i: i roughly thisecoozhentry up, where It says “WK P=- .141 Q And you’ll note at 800 you had the breakfast with e from Peter Burteigh I: 1Vernon Jordan at the WaMorf Astoria. 171 A Riaht. isi Q DG ou see that? I91 A Rig& right. I101 Q Now.‘that would mean at your place basically. El11 A At my residence. 1121 Q Do you eat in the residence, or do you go down and [13leat - [141 A No, at the residence. 0 Okay. Tell us, what was the general subject matter I :z; of your rneetin with Mr. Jordan? A qt was as I said it was at my initiitive. The I :i! purpose was to seek’scme career advice from Jordan. I tlstentered my first year at the U.N. It was about.- I wanted 120 1to et his advice on the problem we were havmg wrth Congress t21lon91 .N . arrears. I consider him somebody that tn the past tzzl he’s helped me. I like the guy. But it was mainly to talk about iG:;rnoves. I remember I was starti q$o hit 5&?n?%r?~~ tzsjask him some advice aboutwhat thought I might do in the

Page 154 Page 157 t 1) Schedule C. t 1) future. And. and that was the burbose of the meetina And I think there was just confusion about what I i:iwanted done. What I thought was happening and what Cooper [ 41 thought was ha pening was that we were losjng this Schedule C [ 5 1slot and make ip Into Foreign Service, and I dtdnY want that 161 to happen. So, I was just - 171 Q Okay. A I mean, all of this, I, I. you know, I - I don’t isi Q Okay. ” I:;know all this stuff. A Let me .ust sa , I was ‘ust in a f urative sense Q And that’s fine and it may be, because I don’t t iilasking aby career advice. rwasn t thinking o?changtng. .~~.i :i leither. That’s whv I’m asking and you may not know. [ 111I’m very ha py where I am. LIZI A Yeah. - _ [12) For the record. Q We’re just trying to fgure it out. Then, if we go [131 A For the record. t::;up to the next entry up where R says “Peter Thanks for Q Okay, and then finall and I think this is the r I 51 the heads-uo. I had initiated the candellation’ already since i ::; last record we have to show you, in r*erms of phone records, i ; 6 j he wanted ii done.” r161et.--, cetera. Now that line there about the cancellation, I’m I171 (Exhibit WBR-22 was marked i : i 1assuming that’s a reference to where it says in the prior e- [181 for identification.) 1191mail, “don’t cancel the personnel action et”. What I’m I191 BY MR. BIENERT: {XI 1trying to figure out here is if that has to J o with whether a Q WBR-22 which I will indicate to you are phone 1211 cancellation was or wasn’t done; and, if so. whether that was. iii 1records retlectina pagers. 1221because ou guys learned that Montca Lewinsky was not taking [rslthe job. .4o then somebody said - ,941 A Oh. no. no. ;15j 0 - well, cancel the personnel action.

Page 152 to Page 157 3426

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130/98 XMAX(27)

Page 158 Page 161

;:’ A Iii Q Or the fact that you were Involved In offering her Q %??that thus particular document if you follow it :: 1a job ar3 ;terweowin her7 ii.across it shows 8 54 a.m., but I’ll also represent’to ou .3! L8 e have not discussed rt whatsoever [J *tha: that’s from Pacific trme. So, it’s 11:54 Eastern ty~rne j4: Q When IS the first time that you would have been i 5‘1n :he mornrnq. a call on January 7th. or I should say page. ; jlmade aware tn any wa that there might be a possrble link on :6 151 the job front between \y ernon Jordan and Monica Lewinsky7 i-1 “Please call Mona iT\ Well, 11.it. when the whole issue exploded In : 3.4: 54029.” Do you have any understanding of why :p; January ?hat’s the -- ! 9;would have been pagrng Monrca Lewrnsky on January 7th? [i’ Q So, based on press accounts? A Well, It could be, I mean, I m just look1 I:Zi first time Press accounts. 1:Cithose documents that she was - Monica Monica told%%a that !lli t Nothing prior to that? c1: 1she wasn’t taken the .ob but she wanted’to come and thank me [I’; A No. Actually, rt was this uy. Matt Drudge, who i,;.orsend me a let?er. A nd maybe Mona was calling and saying, [ 13 1surfaced my name, or my meeting, mys 9cry meeting at the I ! ; : send a letter. I : 41 Waterqate That’s how I - 1151 0 Because ou recall that that was one of the kind of 1151 - Q And I guess - [ 16j folbwup is;uesYt;z;ou z ad had, based on the memo from - [I61 A That was the same day that the story broke. [17i [171 Q And I uess there was one Drudge report that was [la! - Mona correct? [ls]out around Janua 1 th or 19th? 2 I mean she - in fact I I I was going to say to I191 MR. LE #j NER: The 18th. 19th. 29th - I:iiMona don’t don1 bother. I mean, this thing is over. She L201 THE WITNESS: The same day it broke. [*I jdoesn’t have to send me a letter. I didn’t want to have I211 BY MR. BIENERT: [ 111another meetin E21 Q Okay. QkY ere ou sort of - how did you feel about the fact I231 A Because I was asked to comment on the Drudge tf:ithat in essence you guys waited almost two months, I guess, r41report. 1251 six weeks or so. before she got back to you. Did it leave a [251 Q All right. Other than your attorney or attorneys,

Page 159 Page 162 [ 11neutral feejng i;lour mouth? Did you have sort of a bad - [ 11have you spoken to anyone about, in preparation for your 121 [z j appearance here today, namely to talk to us, or an one from [31 reaction to her? [ 3 1the OIC when you interviewed with them, et cetera.x AQ No it was a non feelin We ‘ust move on. The I41 A No. You mean since then? Since - I: {fact is we did not ‘keep the job open Por her / or two months. [51 Q At anytime? ts]What we did was, first, she asked for an extension of time. I61 A - I’ve interviewed? No. !~jWe ave it to her. Then we had the Iraq problem. And then [7! Q Even before the interview. 181 in la9 e December. this is my calculation., I said to Mona, [El A No. I’ve not talked to anybody. [ 91 tell her to fish or cut bait, and that was It.

that she was looking

like coordinate with others?

.--a- ~~ t231 A Yeah. I241 Q And that was about a month ago? Q And have ou had any discussions with anyone at 1251 A Yeah, maybe six weeks ago. I::;White House Counsel’s &ice. like BNC~Lindsey or -

Page 160 Page 163

Cl1 Q Okay. And what was the circumstance of that? Ill Aa No. Theydon’t- A This was a p”2 here In New York at the home Of a I21 - Charles Ruff? I:lwornan by the name of MO ly acer, and rt was a dinner party 131 A - know I’m here. [ 41 and I was, I was again sitting at my table and he came over I41 Q About anything related - tsjanct said hello. [51 A No. Q Did ou and Mr. Jordan at that time have any [61 - to this? I ;i discussions at all a g out the Monica Lewinsky situation the [71 2 Not at all. 1e lfact of, as it turns out, your involvement in a potential job Q Has anyone other than your attorneys and other tsjfor her and/or his. or anything even remotely - It i than the agents from my off& and then today with us, has t101 t 1 o 1anyone attempted to debrief you or ask you questions, other 1111 Aa y”“-related to any of that? [ I 11than the press - il2i A No, it was just i greeting. (121 1131 Q So, no discussion at all about Monica Lewinsky? 1131 Aa No.- about what happened with the - 1141 A No. Not at all. Q Have you had any communication at any time, up to A0No.- U.N. ‘ob. et cetera, and Monica Lewinsky? ~:~~the present with Mr. Jordan either directly or indirectly A No. Ot c,er than the press? [ 17 1about anything related to Monica Lewinsky, the job hunt, the Q Yes. sir. 11s1 Paula Jonr ~a;:: or any of that? i;si A No, no. nobody. [I91 Q Let me ask you about a last little batch of Cl Have you had any communication up to the present, ~:~~docurrtents. We received - by the way, just to show ou. ~~!~directly or indirectty. with the President - (2 11here’s a co y which I guess we’ll mark as Exhibit WB R -23 of I221 t No, none whatsoever. tzzjthe schedu Pe that I know we do have. I231 about any of those topics? I731 (Exhibit WBR-23 was marked A The President and I have never discussed Monica [241 for identification.) I::iLewinsky or Paula Jones. Never. [251 BY MR. BIENERT:

OlCStarr Page 158 to Page 163 3427

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAKX!

Page 164 Page 167 :!: Q When I indicated to you we were hoplng we could get : YI these for October, November, December. so you - ._.‘t ‘do ‘Our “Lfor r$uld appreciate It. :3i i;’ Aa Tkuyhad asked for any contact with Susan Brczny Idi A0 YeabWIII know what we are referencing [jl :ii BY MR. LERNER: Ic, A So, ma be because she got a copy of this :ii Q ;i;;.hink you already produced them? r;’ Q Okay, tY; at‘s fine. And Susan Broph IS where? i7, A ;-, A Susan Brophy used to be In the Whl Ye House ;31 0 I’ll take a look. ! YJLegislative Affairs !a! BY MR. BIENERT: ,9’ 0 Okay, perfect. Thank you All right. And the.- we !lOj 0 We’ll double-check, but - I : 3j just have some other documents given to us b you. 1111 A I think there was a whole batch of stuff coming In Now, there was a press statement. I et me just lOOK i :2 1today or - but I said, do a day-to-day from the day they i i j at this for a secon;eand see - f : 31 want. like where was I that day. ‘i -->?I A [idI Q Oka Anyway, it’s Exhibd WBR-23. a - how much we want to go through. This will be 1151 A Ri h!i ;i;;WBR-25. Q V.#ich is a copy of your schedule for January 1998. [I61 (Exhibit WBR-25 was marked i%onXt? L171 for identification.) iis; A Right. 1181 BY MR. BIENERT: I191 Q And so we just want to make sure that we et Q Sir I ask if you’ll look at this and tell us if 120isimilar schedules for, I guess we’ll say, September throug ?I Ifzlyou ret0 nize it. And just so that you know so you are not f 2I 1December of ‘97? 1: 11confuse c?- and maybe the best thm is to g’ive him the I??] A Yeah. Sure. rzzlseries. because there are several dl.R erent. what looks like [131 Q Oka ~231 they miiht be versions of a press statement, and I don’t I141 rzrlknow. I251 I251 A Yeah.

~__ Page 165 Page 168

Ill BY MR. BIENERT: Q I don’t want you to be confused as to which one is Q If you look at this, sir, because this is another I:lwhich. /:iexhibit that we don’t quite know what we are looking at, and MR. BIENERT: So, why don’t we ne him the other [ 4 lsee if you are able to tell us anything. It’s WBR-24. This I:;copies. which will be - I have one, two three 3our five [ 51 is a copy of a document that you’ll see the stabonery says [ 51 sheets of paper. I’m not sure. It looks’like at’leasi two I 61 it’s a Fax Cover Sheet. [ 61 of them are Identical. [7! A Yeah. [71 BY MR. BIENERT: .-.ifi, 0 The White House Office Of Legislative Affairs Q What I’m goin to do is ive you all of them, so 19i A Right. I : i that you can look at them an 3 tell us w if-ch one, to your Q To you, although at the top it shows October 8th t 101 knowledge if an was the final version and - I::; 1997 from Amb_assador Richardson. Then it gives ~12-415-430~. A O\ I can tell you that now, because I’m the one I k: 1that drafted the fir&l one. !$%hen just going down the page, it shows that Q That’s what I wanted to ask you. Okay. So, we I::ldont have to give you the extra one on that. El51 A Yeah this, this was the final one. [I61 MR. BIENkRT: And then let’s go ahead and give him [ 171 the others. We have three others. 1181 BY MR. BIENERT: Q So, let’s give you those and have the court iio9:reporter identify them. 1211 (a~$gR~8!Wt2tkWB~-~, [221 1231 for identiiication.) (241 BY MR. BIENERT: Do you even know what this is in relation to? I251 Q lf you want, I’m going to spread mine out so I can

*

Page 166 Page 169

III A Yeah, yeah, I’m pretty sure. [ 1Ijust eyeba;thegu;hile you tell us about them. [PI Q What is it? [21 A This was relating to I think the White House asked Q Okai. If you couM look at those others? Why I: 1me to call Becerra about an educaiion issue and I did. This I:ldon’t ou just go through each one by number and tell us what ( 51 was - is that October 8th? [slit is, i/you know? I61 Q That’s what it says on it, yes, sir. In fact - A Oka well this is the -this one 26 is the 171 A This. this is Conaressrnan Becerra of California. IFistatement that Mit x ell. rriy press guy, issued oh rni behalf ieiAnd it was relating io a vote on%ducation. And, and, and 1s1 and it’s similar to the press guidance that is in 25. I I 91 what was attached was the talking points. rslguess. 1101 Q Ali ri ht. 1101 Q Okay. So. YOUhad reviewed these before they went Cl11 MR. LERBER: This was induded in the production. ~11j0ut,amct? - - [I21 BY MR. BIENERT: [I21 A Oh, yeah -well, I drafted it. Q Yes and I don’t know if it was a mistake. I mean. Q Now, and I’m ‘ust goin to focus on WBR-25 which, /::iwe’re trying to figurk out what this has to do with - i::ias I understand it, is one oft IIe ones t3, at went out. is that i15; _ A Yeah. 1151right. sir. 25? 0 To your knowledge, does this have anything to do I161 A Yeah. yeah. I :,” 1with Monica Lewinskv - Q In talktng about “The decision to hire Ms. iisi !:i.__,~~ 1Lewinskv was based on her a~alifications” - I191 tl Nq.-job -hunting, what have you? 1191 * A Yeah. ’ [201 A Nd. Q 7he decision to hire Ms.” - I’m sorry. “The Q Okay. So we’ll assume. what I would do is just do ~:~~decision to hire Ms. Lewinsky was based on her I$lthis. Well actually we will confer with your attorney [ 221 qualfications, initiative, and reputation as a hard worker.” (23lduririg the’break to’see if they have some other basis for I231 A. Right. irrjgivingit to us. 0 And I really just want to focus on that last [251 A Ah, you know why? You know why7 And I’m going to I::lportion. “reputation as a hard worker”. What, if any, effort _-

Page 164 to Page 169 OIC-Starr 3428

BSA Ambassador William 8. Richardson, 4/30/98 Xu*x(291

Page 170 Page 173

r.. ‘was made by ou or your office to determine anythrng about - Q a press release? :. her reputatAon y r- A Well eventual1 I assumed this would et out. how, -5, Well. this was m thus was my phrase. She :? ‘how was she referred to me. L ut I wasn’t goin~togu?names I ‘obviously - in the rntetvfe.v In Ik e resume, based on :: ,out. I wasn’t going to fin er anybody I made t e eclslon .5; anybody that works at the Whrte House and the Department of : 3;Just because she was re9 erred to US by John and Betty drdn’t 6: Defense, this is somethrrg !hat I sense very much was part of :;‘mean that that’s why I hired her. I. I made the decrsron to ‘- her attraction to me, that she worked hard that she had : - hrre her and I. and I was not - I don’t even remember seeing : 3: initiative. that she had qua’lfications. Thai’s it. ij,thIS. c j Q In terms of ‘reputation as a hard worker”, is it _A But I remember somebody sayrn well, shouldn’t we i ; 1accurate. sir. that at leas! on that issue of what others I f 5:say that she was referred to us by John an 3. Betty and I sard. : I j thou ht of her. in terms of workrng hard or not, that there [lit no. I hrred her. I’ll take the responsbilrty. and I want :z!had %een no inquiries made. to your knowledge. with anyone [ 1: 1to get thrs,out today. I sard. I don’t want to. you know, : 3:that she had worked with’ [ I 3I I’m not gorng to dilly-dally. Let’s get everythrn out u 14; A Well. let ma say, John Podesta said to me he. wanted [ 141 front that we know now. This is our positron. ?Ve gePit out :j 1 me to Interview her. He mentioned Betty Curries name. Thus [lslthe same day. 161woman worked at the White House, Legrslative Affairs. She [16] Q And- :7 lworked at the Pentagon. She had a security clearance. She A - this is routine. I have nothing lalgave a good intervrew. She was - her qualtficabons were I ::{to worry about. I’ve done no hing Im ro : g 1consistent with the job that I wanted. I mean, that’s - I191 Q zvi:,o’:i! jook arti: which is the last 701 Q So, d I understand the answer you have just given fzoldocument - actually, I think it might be the one you had in 2 11us, you are giving us reasons why you believed that this was I 2I 1front of vou. sir. 22 j a good assessment of Ms. Lewrnsky In this press statement, is i22j ’ A’ 25? .~.231that riaht?_ 1231 __ Q No, I’m sorry. 27. :24j A Right, right [241 A Right. 1251 Q My question though is a little more specific. Did 1251 Q It’s this one. If you look at the - now, this

Page 171 Page 174 ! 1 j you or anyone at our direction, to your knowledge, ever [ 1Iversion is a good bit different than what ultimately went [: 1speak to anyone Yhat MS Lewrnsk had worked with about i z 1out, at lea: sornfvvkat different. [ 3 jwhether shAewas or was not a har 1, worker? [3! [41 No. I I don’t. I don t know. I don’t think so. I41 Q %uld you agree? :5! BY MR. LERNER: (5! A Q So the reputation is based on the interview and, f61 Cl RN’??did you even see this draft? If I in addition, your cbnversatlon with - !‘: A No, I’didn t see it. :9] iai Q Okay. Does any of this language even look familiar [9! Aa My- John ‘udgment. Podesta? r91to you? ::?I A My .ud ment. A No. . . . . Cl-Ii Q RI bt. gut when John Podesta mentioned Ms. Q In other words do you think that the fact that :;J ;Lewinsky to you, #e didn’t even mention her name. i :: i what ultimatelv went out is different than this. is that :13: A i I 3 j something that - would you have looked at this document and :141 Q !?,hltte really wasn’t vouching for her reputation or 1141weighed rn on why it should be used and - ::s!her - A No. No, I just drafted - I remember drafting it !I61 A No, but - I:Zlmyself. 1171 - work ethic? Q Oka Now, the position that youwere considering !Iai AQ - but he, he wanted me to talk to her. The I :i 1Ms. Lewinsky for I r.hrnk you told us the name of the person i 191 assumption was that she had some qualifications to interview tl9lwho now has that job. [zolher. So, that - I assumed that. And her resume assumed, [201 A Paul Aronsohn. (211 here’s somebod that in a short lie span has done a lot. I211 Q Okay. And you believe he was hired in February or 1221 BY M&. BIENERT: izzjtvlarch? Q Now, if we look at WBR-28, which has the A Well no. He already was at the Missii. We just ljl jhandwriti~ at the&ttom. sir? I::imoved him. He wa; in the political department So. we moved [zslhim.

-

Page 172 Page 175 Q You’ll see the last line of what I’m assuming is a And when was the decision made to fill that slot I: ;draft says,, “she was referred to us b John Podesta and by f3lBetty Cumr , a;:;;& lined throug x I41 0 And then it says, “Alternative suggested: MS izl Lewinsk was referred by rndrviduals with whom she had (6 1puyview. And I agreed on one because I thought that two was i 71 previous r y~ork;!a”hDo you see that? ~71 a lrttle excessive. And that was Aronsohn. [ai Q And how many oeople were interviewed - and let’s f91 Q Is that your writing? Ii 1‘ust bracket the time. Obviously at this point we are I101 A No. 1101( alkrng after the time that Ms. Lewinsky declined the job. 1111 Q Did you - 1111 A Yeah. IlZl A That s Coopers. Q So sometime after early January but before Did you even see it in this version at all. to your i::;February or March, whenever Mr. Aronsohn was given that [ I 4 1position, correct? A Yeah. Q How many people were interviewed for that position? A I don’t know. I don’t know. iiaj Q Do you have any recollection of interviewing anyone [lglfor it? A Yeah. I think I told you before that there were, I:;; there were some junior-type people that I met with that we (22 1had thou ht about. Some names had come from the White House y want to bring up fz3lthat I thinR - Cooper may have interviewed some people. I [ 24 1know she had resumes. (251 But that I personally interviewed? There may have

OIC-Starr Page 170 to Page 175 3429

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4130198 XMAXIXI)

Page 176 Page 179 c:‘been a cou le. I t3lnk. I, I don’t remember. Q Ambassador RIchardson. before we broke, I was g Weli whe? we were talking earlier. we were talking : asking you about some of the accounts In the press that you /; ,further back. We were ta.klng back before ou made the : might be currently being consldered for Secretary of Energy ! 4 Ioffer I was Includ.ng the time period even 6 efore you made ‘-To your knowledge, are you at present someone who IS being i 51 the offer to Monica h?WlnSky ; -considered as a ossible Secretary of Energy? ji‘ What I’m focusng In on now is a little more A &II. ( only read what 1 See In the paper. That’s : 1narrow: and that IS. the time penod after Ms. Lewlnsky - the extent of m knowledge of this. ; 3: declined thAe]o;e;;;h IS January - Q 7s that a positIon. to your knowledge -- who WOL ;) :Gi appoint that positIon? _. !:“’ Q - tnrou h the time that Mr. Aronsohn was - _. A The President would i:1; t Oh did 9 IntervlFw other people? aware of the fact tha; I:?. - hired for the_d ob 1.or swltched to the job as someone who 1; ~.During that narrow time peno , whtch I guess IS anywhere I 14!from a month to two. depending on when Mr. An?nsohn was ton Post In Al Kamen’s i 151 switched, did you tntetvlew an r_.one for that posItIon? A Yes. I belleve did Interview a couple of people, i:i: Q And when would that have been? I : t i but I I don’t know if it was specifically for that position. r.-lc_ A It was about two weeks ago. i 1~1 I wa& sold on Coopeh argument that we should shift Aronsohn , . ; . Q Is Secreta of Energ any position that you have f 191to that position. But we still had a slot. And so I wanted 1Iijat an time indicated to otx er politica r associates or, [zolto fill the slot. I have filled the slot. So I was ::::frank &. , anyone for that matter, that you might have an I: 11interviewin people for the slot. ;2; : interest in. 2 ut Lewmsky’s position was taken by Aronsohn. SO, r--i A No. In fact, I don’t see it as a job enhancement [i:lthere was no need to interview anybody for Aronsohn’s ;?:fsituation. I, I think I’m better off where I am now. But, f 24 ! posttion. : 24 : no, no;l have never sought that posdion. No. I251 Q So. your best recollection, if I understand it, is :25: 0 So. is it accurate then that at this point no one

Page 177 Page 180

[I 1you may have interviewed eople for namely bei?g a new : : : has affirmatively. other than reading press accounts. no one f:! employee. but it would not g ave been for the posttion that :z : has affirmative1 discussed the topic with you? (31 Lewinsky was offered because Aronsohn was already slated for !j; A {hat’s right. That’s right. i4jit? ::: Q And I’m sorry, you mght have said this, and I [51 A Right. Right, right. (5: might have just spaced. But is that someone that would be 0 Did you actually do an interview of Mr. Aronsohn : E!appointed by the President? ,-. I: j for that position? A Yes. The President appoints the Secretary of Iii! A Yeah. I had talked to Paul. and I had basically 19: said to him, what do you want to do. He had come to me in _ [ 10;the fall and basically said. I want to work close with you In [I I I our personal office, and I’m not very ha py doin my work in [I?] ? he political section: and, as a matter of Pact, the 8 tate 1:3; Department has offered me 9 position in Washington, but I’d t 141 like to stayQherefieFr working with you. Cl51 A So. thatwas an added incentive to give him this Ii7”; osition. And Cooper wanted him anyway. So. we put him in [ISI Phere Q When. approximately when did he come to you with t$?ithat pitch, with that request? .--,1211 A About workinq for me - [221 Q Yes,sir. - 1231 A in general? Q ?es sir. About the fact that the State Department izrjinattefi I::; had offered him a &sition. et cetera? 1251 A No. There’s, there’s no connedion whatsoever.

_ Page 178 Page 181 A I think it was in, in January. (11And it’s never crossed my mind. Q It would have been post-Monica, as far as - On the Monica Lewins&y thing. I - very clearly, A Yeah. I think so. Yeah. i:iwhat I did was routine. I was not pressured. I feel very [ 4 Igood about what we did. I make no apologies. [51 But the answer is no. There is no linkage. They ! sldon’t even know I’m here. MR. BIENERT: And I think we had one other document iiithat we wanted to go over with him. [91 (Exhibit WBR-29 was marked [lOI for identification.) [?1! BY MR. LERNER: 1121 Q This, I guess, is a memo from lsabelle Watkins to [ I 3 1 you. It’s dated Janua 22nd. MR. BIENERT: Let me. just for the record we are i ‘;: i talking about WBR-29. BY MR. BIENERT:

is4juntil 1:13 p.m. [251 BY t R. BIENERT:

Page 176 to Page 181 OlC-starr 3430

BSA Ambassador William 6. Richardson, 4/30/98

Page 182 Page 185 A No. No, but, you know who Gene Randall is? He’s : : Be!?y Currjqe? ,_ .: :wrth CNN. And he had done a drnner a year a o with a group ,- Oh, I think we’re - I lrke her a lot. She’s a 3: of his frrends Debbie Schtff was there And 8 ene srnce 7 ve;y sweet erson We’re not parhcularly close. She IS - _: : then, since I got a pointed, has been sayrng. I want to give ‘; the White J ouse office ad)orning the Presrdent It’s a ver_, 5; ou a drnner. An cf we’ve been unable to give hrm a date. In oi Yact, we cancelled this date This never happened. -/ Q Okay. .z A So. and he had invrted - he IS a friend of Debbie 15 person. 3 1and Jrm Schiff. [CI MR BIENERT- Okay. I thank that’s all we hai? and ::3. Cl Well, have you ever had a conversation with Debbie I 1;: we appreccate our time :i, ‘Schrff abo;t Le;;sky? i??: VID~OGRAPHER: The Interview is conclude- at --_I 2., ,!:‘l 20.38. .l?! Q Do you have any idea why Debbie Schiff was the 113’ THE WITNESS: CanBa~~o;; just say one tn..-g7 1: I erson - If you recall, she was the one who on October 21 st [;I: VIDEOGRAPHER: ; : j 1,P axed the resume to your office in New York. Do you have any il5 THE WITNESS: Yeah. back on, because it rea:es to I 6I idea whv Debbie Schiff at least is the named person sendrng [16;- you asked me. i :; i the fax?- iI7! VIDEOGRAPHER: The hme is 1:20:49 /.A>‘.;il A She did? I didn’t know that. 118’ BY MR. BIENERT: !I91 BY MR. BIENERT: When we went off, Ambassador Richardson ::0! Q Well, let’s back up and just make sure we’re being ,-A.:1 Iprecise. As ou may recall, and we can show you the exhtbrt ::? I- I think it’s tK e first or second exhrbtt - the fax :: 3j notation at the top of the resume says DebI Schiff. i-‘l! BY MR. LERNER: :25i Q That doesn’t necessarily mean that she was the

Page 183 Page 186 : : 1person sending it. 1I ; I IntervIewed that were corn etitive necessarily with .‘I gy M~h.;tenn@ Oh, yeah :Z I Lewrnskv. I did want to fill t Re slot. So. I interviewed a i;! izjnumber bfgeoyle. ‘i! Q ;ia cru see that, sir? nd just wanted to be clear. You asked me to :51 A K ; 5;oroduce names of oeoole that I interviewed for Lewinskv’s ; 6; slot. I .ust want to be &ear that if I talked to anybody,~ ’ .ilA/ Q What is that. that’s WBR-I? ‘-1 ,& Yeah. [ 71 it was I or positrons in the Mission in the public affairs :sj BY MR. LERNER: [ 81 area, not necessarily Lewinsky’s, because we eventually Q Let me just be clear. That doesn’t necessarily [ 9lfilled rt with Aronsohn. ,.I i zimean that she was the person who actually Inset-ted the page [lOI Do you see what I’m saying? ; :: 1in the fax machrne. But - I111 Q Right. And when you say you would have interviewe I>-‘! A No, I don’t know why. I don’t know why. Maybe a [ 1~1 someone for a position, you just mean a body, but for a : : 31 lot of people use her fax. I don’t know. [ I 31 different jo; funyz;r$ than - il41 0 Right. (141 ::51 BY MR. BIENERT: Q - you interviewed Lewinsky. and that Aronsohn 0 Have you gotten together socially on any occasions i :Z j later got? iitiwith Debbie Schiff? A Yeah. Yeah. I just want to - so that you dent A Well. that - a year ago, yeah. Or maybe - no. I :l i think I’m t ing to come up with names that don’t exist. I :“,i It was when I was in the Congress. I thank it was two years 1191 ‘1; Okay. [: o1 ago at her home, at the home of Randall. A I mean, t’m atways interviewin pe_oqt,adt $I Q And since that time, have you ever gotten together I:; i times, junior positions. And, you know, I wan9 to [I;lwith him? [ 221 letter from a woman who. from New Jerse who said to me. my I231 A NO. t23json calfed the U.S. Missron at the United R*ations and wanted 1241 Cl I said him, I meant with her? 1241 to interview for a job with you. And he got a cold shoulder. 1251 A No, no. [ 25 1 Yet you interviewed Monica Lewinsky because she had some

Page 184 Rage 187 Q Now, you can’t help but note that just [I 1friends in high faces. ii jcoincidentally the date of this memo to you is January 22nd And P remember getting that letter and having [ 31 the date the sto broke in the Monica Lewinsky matter, and i: 1lsabelte call that woman and say, you know, you have a point [ 41 it was schedule for short1 thereafter and you indicated to (41 I’ll interview your son. And I intervrewed her son and I’m :~lmethatitwas~ncelled. 6Iasitcan<ed-thefactof (51 keeping him in a pool. f 61the cancel~tion&d it have anything to do with this - But I’m not trying to gain points with the grand Itijury. But I I do I am very en aged in personnel issues. But I want to make%vo things very dear. Number 3rd? No no. It’s ‘ust - Ii lone under no circumstances did I ever discuss Monica In other’words. I il ad to. I f 101 Lednsky with the President or Paula Jones. And, number two, we did not hold the job open for be something not related to i 13 j Monica Lewinskybr the - I141 crisis, so we were consum& by ,151 Aa 3ah*Issue “O.. wrth the President? .--I [161 A No it wouldn’t. [I”] MR. LERNER: A couple last questiOnS. What is my last point? Let’s see. That’s about L-s/r191 BY MR. LERNER: [1Bl Q You probably answered this. But. other than that [ 19 I it. iii i one meeting with Betty Currie in which you hugged, you had no I201 MR. BIENERT: Okay. That will conclude the : 2: ; conversation with her - 121~deposition. Thanks agarn. [??I (Whereupon, at 1:24 p.m., the proceedings were I-‘31 Aa Wthabout Betty7 Monica Lewinsky? jjijconduded.) iZ4j A No. [‘Sj Q And how would you describe your relationship with 125; We

OIC-Starr Page 182 to Page 187 3431

BSA Ambassador William B. Richardson, 4/30/98 XMAX(121

Page 0 .,.-. CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER - NOTARY PUBLIC - I. Elizabeth A. Eastman, the officer before whom : j, the foregoing deposition was taken, do hereb certify that : 4: the witness whose testrmony appears in the Yoregomg Fi’deposrtion was duly sworn by me; that the testimon of said I c ‘wetness was taken by me electromcally and therea x er reduced - ‘to t pewnting by me: that sard deposrtron IS a true record : 5‘oft t; e testimony gtven by said witness, that I am nerther I G.counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the partres ! 15: to the action in which this deposition was taken and, I :; : further, that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney : :z : or counsel emplo ed by the parties hereto, nor financially or I i,‘otheWrse interes Yed tn the outcome of the action. Ilij 115. i161 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA i 17 j My Commission Expires: r19;July 31.2000 i19j - [201 i2ll 172; 1231 I24J 1251

Page 0 to Page 0 3432

United States Department of State

JVashington, D.C. 20520

January 29,1998

By Messenger

?%& of t&&dependent Counsel 100 1 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Suite 490N Washington, DC 20004

Subject: Federal Grand Jury Subpoenas directed to the United States Mission to the United Nations and Ambassador William Richardson (D828 and D829)

The enclosed documents are being provided to you in response to the Federal Grand Jury Subpoenas dated January 22,1998, which were directed to the United States Mission to the United Nations and to Ambassador William Richardson. We are also in receipt of the letter of January 23,1998, from the Independent Counsel to the Legal Adviser of the Department of State.

The enclosed documents are being provided in confidence for grand jury purposes only. Some of the documents may be subject to protection as privileged, or may involve interests which are otherwise protected by law, including personal privacy. All such information must be protected from unauthorized disclosure.

D. Stephkr Mathias Assistant Legal Adviser Legislation and General Management

828~DC-oooooool 3433

Monica S. Lewinsky

Education:

Lewis and Clark College Portland, Oregon Bachelor of Science in Psychology May 1995

Experience:

Depart& 5 T&e Pentagon Washington, D.C. Confidential Assistant to the Assistant Secrela.ry’of Defense for Public Affairs April 1936 - present Serve as principal assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense (ASD) for Public Affairs in support of his dual role as both Department of Defense spokesman and head of Department of Defense Public Affairs. Assist in preparing the ASD for bi-weekly press briefings. Interact with the national print and broadcast media on the ASD’s behalf. Provide the ASD with timely updates of current media stories. Act as liaison with the offices of the Secretary, the White House, other Cabinet Secretaries and the National Security Council. Provide support to the Secretary of Defense and Assistant Secretary on frequent i ‘on 1 trgvel which includes a contingent of traveling media. Handle the ASD’s daily schedule ~!!!%%!$$~dknce.

The White House Washington, D.C. Staff Assistant to Director of Legislative Affairs Correspondence, November 1995 - April 1996 Wrote drafts and correspondence for Staff Secretary’s approval and ultimately the President’s signature, which often required research of various Administration issues and policies. Coordinated mass mailings to Congress for the President and other Senior Administration officials. Processed and vetted all incoming mail to the President from Congress. Trained and supervised new interns on White House procedure and preparation of White House correspondence.

The \Vhite House Washington, D.C. Swnrner Intern Office of the Chief of Staff, July - November 1995 Drafted form letters and individual responses for the Chief of Staffs signature. Acted as a liaison for Chief of Staffs office to other White House offices, Cabinet agencies, and Congressional offices. Updated office manual. Supervised and coordinated intern and volunteer staff.

Metropolitan Public Defenders Portland, Oregon Alternatives Staff, February - May 1995 Implemented new psychology expert reference techniques. Assisted attorneys in finding viable alternatives to prison for their clients. Directed clients in successful search for support, shelter, food and transportation. Updated files on resource materials.

Southeast Mental Health Network (Practicum) Portland, Oregon Socialization Staff Assistant, January - June 1994 Assisted staff in teaching socialization skills to mentally ill clients to ea,pe their integration back into society. Updated clients’ confidential reports. Coordinated fund rai.sing LObeneCc extra-curricular theatre activities.

Additional Information: 828-DC-ooooooo2

l TS-SC1 Clearance: Current

l Proficient in Macintosh for Microsoft Word 6.0, WordPerfect for Windows 5.2, Quorum, and lnfosys. - 3434

-’ .i v-- y@, DEPARTMENT COST CENTE EXTENSION USER * ,.. DATE TIME DURATION DESTINATIO blALED DIG co -S$’ . 0 - I;600 PRESS 0 ROOM 212A 4048 ADELE GILL IAM 03/l 4197 12:30 1.9 WAS2 lB VA l-703-697-931 2 0. 29 !2615 PRESS ROOM 212A 4048 ADELE GILL IAM 03128197 12:48 6.3 WASZ 1B VA l-703-697-931 2 0. 94 1867 1 PRESS ROOM 212A 4048 ADELE GILL IAM 04/08/97 12:34 1.6 WASZ 1B VA l-703-697-931 2 0. 25 24794 PRESS ROOM 212D 4076 OFFICE PRE ss 06/l 1 I97 14:48 5.2 WASZ 18 VA l-703-697-931 2 0. 77 24837 PRESS ROOM 212F 4153 SPARE SPA RE PRESS 06123197 11:48 2.1 WASZ 1B VA l-703-697-931 2 0. 32 25308 REF/RESEARCH REFERENCE DESK 4160 DESK REFE RENCE 06/l 7197 lo:08 3.0 WASZ 1B VA l-703-697-93 12 0 .46 29030 MILITARY STAFF ROOM 7208 4147 RICHARD C OL. ROAN 05/23/97 16:37 0.0 WASZ lB V l-703-697-931 2 0. 46 29031 MILITARY STAFF ROOM 7208 4147 RICHARD C OL. ROAN 05123197 16:50 0.0 WASZ lB V l-703-697-931 2 0. 19 5005 1 EXECUTIVE EXEC-C 4402 ISABELLE WATKINS 1 o/24/97 14:09 0:00:30 WASZlB V l-7.03-697-931 2 0.08 50101 EXECUTIVE EXEC-C 4402 ISABELLE WATKINS 1 o/29/97 11:51 0:00:30 WASZ 1B V l-703-697-931 2 0.08 50102 EXECUTIVE EXEC-C 4402 ISABELLE WATKINS 1 o/29/97 13:50 0:00:30 WASZ lB V l-703-697-931 2 0.08 50143 EXECUTIVE EXEC-C 4402 ISABELLE WATKINS 1 o/30/97 13:Ol 0:01:18 WASZ 1B V l-703-697-931 2 0.20 59274 EXECUTIVE EXEC 4404 WILLIAM RI CHARDSON 11103/97 11:02 0:02:54 WASZ 10 V l-703-697-931 2 0. 43 63728 PRESS ROOM 212A 4048 ADELE GILL IAM 11105/97 15:58 0:01:06 WASZ lB V l-703-697-931 2 0. 17 6375 1 PRESS ROOM 212A 4048 ADELE GILL IAM 11/l 7197 19:29 0:Ol :oo WASZ lB V l-703-697-931 2 0. 08 63799 PRESS ROOM 2128 4050 SPARE PRE ss 1 l/20/97 13:23 0:01:54 WASZ 1B V l-703-697-931 2 0 .29 63905 PRESS ROOM 212C 4052 REBECCA N EEDLER 11 I1 8197 07:34 0:01:24 WASZlB .V l-703-697-931 2 0. 11 64418 PRESS ROOM 215 4058 CALVIN Ml TCHELL 11 IO5197 14:51 0:05:18 WASZ lB V l-703-697-93 12 0 .79 64474 PRESS ROOM 215 4058 CALVIN Ml TCHELL 11 I1 3197 17:46 0:02:00 WASZ 1B V l-703-697-931 2 0 .16 64479 PRESS ROOM 215 4058 CALVIN Ml TCHELL 11 I1 4197 12:48 0:01:30 WASZ 18 V l-703-697-931 2 0 .23 64546 PRESS ROOM 215 4058 CALVIN Ml TCHELL 11 I23197 17:14 0:03:00 WASZ lB V l-703-697-931 2 0 .23 66360 UNATTACHED UNATTACHED 4294 SHOCAS SP ECIAL ASST. 11 /I 7197 16:44 0:06:36 WASZ lB V l-703-697-931 2 0. 97 71147 PRESS ROOM 2 12A 4048 ADELE GILL IAM 12/l 8197 12:30 0:Ol :18 WASZ lB V l-703-697-931 2 0. 20 71465 PRESS ROOM 215 4058 CALVIN MI TCHELL 12122197 15:16 0:04:24 WASZlB v l-703-697-931 2 0 .66 3435

& .>rd#, DEPARTMENT c ‘_,’ I -. . 0 DATE

ST 4!&5 ’ ‘EXECUTIVE EXEC CHARDSON 1 Of21 I97 19:Ol 0:05:42 WASHINGTON D wALlAM 2: 43 50074 EXECUTIVE EXEC-C WATKINS 1 o/27/97 17:15 0:00:36 WASHINGTON D 0.05 50168 EXECUTIVE EXEC-C WATKINS 1 o/30/97 16:45 0:00:42 WASHINGTON D 0.12 50170 EXECUTIVE EXEC-C WATKINS 1 o/30/97 17:28 0:00:30 WASHINGTON D 0.05 60857 EXECUTIVE-III EXEC-III-G SUTPHEN 11 I1 9197 11:28 0:00:48 WASHINGTON D 13

828-DC- 3436

01122198 10:56RM USMISSION USUN NY PFIGE 001 OF 001

USUN - JANUARY 22.1998

MONICA LEWINSKY JOB OFFER A?‘ USUN

Background: Ambassador Richardson, who lives full-time in New York as the I IS. Permaircnt Representative to the United Nations, regularly stays at the Watergate Hotel when in D.C. for meetings at the White House or on the Hill. JIe often has meetings at the hotel. His Chief ofStaff, Rebecca Cooper. is based in D.C.

Q: Did Ambassador Richardson offer Monica Lcwinsky a job at USUN?

A; Last night Ambassador Richardson’s Spokesman said:

Monica Lcwinsky was offered a junior public at’fairs position at the U.S. Mission to the IJnited Nations after being interviewed by Ambassador Richardson and his Chief of Staff in October 1997. The decision to hire Ms. Lewinsky was based on her qualifications. initiative. and reputation as a hard worker. The position she was offered was consistent with her background and cxpcrience at the Department of Defense and the White House, and not based on any other factors. She subsequently informed the Mission that. despite her initial interest in employment at the Mission, she wished to pursue employment in the private sector. There was no prcssurc by any individual to hire her and nothing improper occurred. The Ambassador routinely meets with qualified candidates for employment at the U.S. Mission.

The Ambassador and his staff only learned ofallegations and leaks about this individual this morning through the news media.

OPTIONAL FORM 93 (7-901

FAX TRANSMITTAL ‘dP%J-D .__-i

__.______..-.- . ..- Fax * Fax l

_ -. ..___ . _____-__ NSN 7540.01 317.7368 SO99 101 GENERAL SERVICES ADMlNlSTAATlON 3437

01/22/98 10:59QM USMISSION USUN NY PAGE 001 OF 001

ardson hlenriewed Monica Lt3Msky for a pb lasi year. w U.N. ambassador insists he offered her a job on merit

828-DC-00000006 3438

01/21/98 03:05PM USMISSION USUN NY P67GE 001 OF 001

Statement by Calvin Mitchell Spokesman for Ambassador Bill Richardson US Mission to the UN. New York, New York January 2 1, 1998

Ambassador Richardson and his Chief of Staff met with Monica Lewinsky regarding a position in October of 1997. She was subsequently offered a position at US Mission to the UN. ‘The position was an entry-level staff position in the press office in New York. Soon thereafter, she informed the Mission that despite her initial interest in employment at the Mission, she wanted to pursue employment in the private scdor. There was no pressure by any individual to hire her and nothing improper occurred. The Ambassador routinely meets with qualified candidates for employment referred by members of the

Administration or Members of Congress. Sf--d 4 by Re&f4&+%

828-Dc-ooooooo7 3439

Monica Lewinsky was offered a staffassistant position with the United States Mission to the United Nations in December of last year. Ms. Lewinsky had expressed an interest in the position, based on her previous work in the office of the Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs at the Pentagon and at the White House. As a result of her qualifications and recommendations, Ms. Lewinsky was offered an entry level position assisting in press and public outreach. Despite her initial pursuit of employment at the Mission, Ms. Lewinsky decided to decline the offer, citing a desire to work in the private sector.

POSSIBLE ADDITIONAL SENTENCE:

Ms. Lewinsky is a bright young woman who established an excellent reputation with her supervisors for hard work and dedication to government service. We wish her well as she pursues her future endeavors.

POSSIBLE ADDITIONAL SENTENCE:

At no time did Ambassador Richardson or anyone on his staffdiscuss Ms. Lewinsky’s employment with the President of the United States or Vernon Jordan.

828-DC-OO0OOoo8 3440

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX 03: 19 UTC WED JAN 21 1998 XXXXX

CONTROVERSY SWIRLS AROUND TAPES OF FORMER WHITE HOUSE INTERN, AS STARR MOVES IN!

**World Exclusive* * **Must Credit the DRUDGE REPORT*+

Federal investigators are now in possession of intimate taped conversations of a former White House intern, age 23, discussing details of her alleged sexual relationship with President Clinton, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

The tapes were made by a federal employee who has been granted immunity. MORE

According to sources in and out of government, Whitewater independent counsel Kenneth Starr became involved in the situation when he received intelligence that senior administration officials may have offered federal jobs to a young woman in an effort to prevent stories from going public -- stories involving sexual episodes that allegedly occurred in a room off the Oval Office.

“Starr is not on the bimbo beat,” one source close to the situation told the DRUDGE REPORT late Tuesday. “He’s looking at a potential for obstruction of justice charges.”

A breakfast meeting that took place at The Watergate Hotel has attracted the attention of investigators.

The development has completely consumed high-level Washington, with Starr’s investigators working past midnight in recent days. Developing.. 3441

P. 7 10-08-l 997 1 : 38PM FROM AMELRICHAROSON 2124154303 l .

OIiF’ICE OF LEGISLA’IWE

FAX COVER SBEET

_ JOHNHIL.LEY 3- SUSANBROPHY _ ViRG?Nh RUSTQUIZ *JL- TiwPDoNmLLY

4562230 (lZ.LEPHoNE) 456-622O(FAx)

.

* Note: The information contained in this fatitilt message is CONFII)ENTUL, and intended for the recipientONLY _ f f thereis a problem with the eum,ision, please contact Be sendu as soon as possible. 828-DC-OOOOOOlO

- -- - -.. .- _____^~~--1 be.-- ._ .._ ._- w...im 3442

01/21/98 06330 ‘13L202 647 0122 @loo2

me-- --Timlmm----ml-- m \ / APM-Whitewater-Clinton, 1st Ld-Writethru,o672 ‘9Vhitewater prosecutor expand probe into Paula Jones case AEDS: INSERTS grafs 7-8. ‘Bennett told X)Q(with Bennett passing on Clinton denial: report that investigators have 20 hours of tapes and Jordan no comment “By JOHN SOLOMON= %ssociated Press Writer= WASHINGTON (AP) Whitewater pmseoutor Kenneth Starr% 3@1/2-year investigation has expended into new territory whether President Clinton tried to influence a former White House intern’s testimony in the Paula Jones sexual harassment lawsuit The former intern. Monica S. Lewinsky. has signed a declaration in the Jones’ lawsuit denying she ever had a sexual relationship with the president and stands by that assertion. her lawyer said. Attorney William H. Ginsburg of Los Angeles said his client has not been formally interviewed by rosecutors but that he has met in Washington with St&s investigators. Gins g urg said the Justice Department had approved a formal Whitewater investigation. “I know that Janet Reno has definitei The Washington Post and The Los Angeles Times, along with ABC News, reported in today’s editions that the that oversees Stan’s probe also approved the expansion. Clinton’s private attorney in the Jones’ case, Robert Bennett, muld not be reached for comment early today. Clinton repeatedly has denled Jones’ allegations that he sexual1 harassed her while Arkansas governor and last weekend was deposed by Ms. .Jonw’ attorneys ror six hours. Bennett told the Post the president has denied having an affair with the intern and noted that she also had denied it in an affidavit. * NBC News, which said investigators are working with 20 hours of tape-recorded conversations in the case, said it reaohsd Jordan overnight at a New York hotel and that he . dedined to comment The latest development marks a departure for Starr’s investigation, whioh for the past 3@1/2 years has focused on the Clintons’ falled Whitewater land venture and other Arkansas business dealings and whether since coming to WashIngton the first family or their atdes have done anything to Impede that investigation. Ginsburg declined to discuss the specifics of what he talked about with Starr’s investigators, but confinned he had met with them in Washington. He said Ms. Lewinsky was scheduled to be deposed later this week by Jones’ attorneys in the sexual harassment lawsuit. Earkerr?Ms. Lewlnsky provided a written statement in the lawsuit denying she ever had a sexual ralationsnrp with Clinton while an intern at the White House, Ginsburg said. “At this time, she stands by her declaration,” the lawyer said. The limes and ABC News reported that Starr was investigating whether Clinton deployed his friend and trusted adviser, Vernon Jordan, a Washington attorney. to discuss with Lewlnsky her testimony. The two reported that Starr’s of&e had received a tip from a former associate of Lewinsky, Linda Tripp, that prompted the investigation. The Washington Post and ABC reported that Tripp provided Starr with audiotapes that she recorded of conversations she had with Lewinsky in which the former intern recounted details of a 1@l&year affair she said she had with Clinton. Ms. Lewinsky started working at the White House in December 1996. Both newspapers and ABC said that, according to sources, Ms. Lewinsky said in one of the taped oonversations that Clinton and Jordan had asked her to deny to Ms. Jones’ lawyers that she had had a telatlonship with the president. After workin as an intern at the white House, Ms. Lewinsky worked in the public affairs department at the Pen% gon along with Trtpp- She laft the job, but it had nothing to do with the sexual harassment case, Ginsburg said. Ms. Lewinsky remains in Washington, her lawyer said. 82%DC-00000011

(Copyright 1988 by The Associated Press. A3 Rights Reserved.) 3443

,. Monica S. Lewineky . . .

Education:

Lewis and Clark College Portland, Oregon Bachelor of Science in Faychology May 1995

Experience:

Department of Defense The Pentagon Washington, D.C. Confidential Assistant to the As&ant Secretury of Defense for Public Affairs April 1996 - present Serve as principal assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defenae (ASD) for Public Affairs in support of his dual role as both Department of Defense spokesman and head of Department of Defense Public Affaire. Aseist in preparing the ASD for b&weekly press briefings. Interact with the national print end broadcast media on the ASD’s behalf. Provide the ASD with timely updates of current media stories. Act au liaison with the offices of the Secretary, the Wbits Houee, other Cabinet Secretaries and the National Security Council. Provide eupport to the Secretary of Defense and Aesietant Secr&ary on &equent international travel which includes a contingent of traveling media. Handle the ASD’e daily schedule and correspondence.

The White House Washington, D.C. Staff Assistant to Llirector of Legi&tivc Affcrirs Cbirespondqtce, November 1995 - April 1996 Wrote drafts and correspond&e fir staff Secretary’e approval and ultimately the President’s eignature. which often required research of various Administration isbuee and policies. Coordinated mass mailings to Congrese for the President and other Senior Administration o5cials. Processed and vetted all incoming mail to the President from Congress. Trained and supervised new interns on White House procedure and preparation of White Houae correspondence.

The White House Waehington, D.C. a Summer Idem Office of the Chief of Staff, July - November 1995 Drafted form letters and individual responses for the Chief of Staffs signature. Acted as,a~liaiacmfor Chief of Staffs office to other Whits House offices, Cabinet agencies, and.Congreeei&al o&es. Updated o5ce manual. Supervised and coordinated intern and voldnteer staff. *

Metropolitan Public Defenders Portland, Oregon Alternatives Stuff, February - May 1995 Implemented new psychology expert reference techniques. Aesisted attorneys in finding viable alternatives to prison for their clients. Directed clienta in eucceeeful search for support, shelter, food and transportation. Updated filee on resource materials.

Southeast Mental Health Network (Practicum) Portland, Oregon Sociakation Staff Assietant, January - June 1994 As&ted staff in teaching eocialization skilla to mentally ill clients to ease their integration back into society. Updated clients’ confidentiaI reports. Coordinated fund raising to benefit extra-curricular theatre activities. 828-DC-00000012 Additional Information:

* TSSCI Clearance: Current

l Proficient in Macintosh for Microsoft Word 6.0, WordPerfect for Windows 5.2, Quorum, and Infosye. 3444

_, ;

.’ . , :,,,T

3 November 1997

The Honorable Bill Richardson United States Ambassador to the United Nations 799 United Nations Plaza New York, New York 10017

Dear Ambassador Richardson:

It was a pleasure meeting with you last Friday morning. I know how very busy and demanding your schedule is; I particularly appreciated your taking the time to speak with me.

It was an honor to meet you. The US Mission to the United Nations is certainly in good hands with you at the helm.

Again, thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Lyy(W+

Monica Lewinsky 3445

January 22, 1998

TO: Bill

FROM: Isabelle

RE: Calls/scheduling

Gene Randall is sending directions to his home. The dinner is scheduled on Tues., Feb. 3, as you noted. He expects Bill Press and his wife,. Jam&s and Debbie Schiff (White House) to join you.

828-DC-OOOOOO14 3446

TO: Ambassador Richardson

FROM: Mona Sutphen

SUBJECT: Tidbits

1. Ollie Olivas: I spoke to Laurie Shestack about the call she received from Michael Olivas. She said she told Olivas you were out of the country and asked whether the information about his father's death should be passed to you immediately. Olivas said 'Ino . ‘I She also said she mentioned it to Ben on Monday or Tuesday (12/29 or 12/30) and that he asked her to write it down -- hence the e-mail she sent on Friday l/2 (after the New Year's holiday). When I asked her why she delayed in passing the information, she commented that there was no sense of urgency on Olivas' part and that she sent it to Ben immediately upon her return after the holiday.

2. Monica Lewinsky: She has declined the position in the hopes of going private sector (e.g. Burston-Marsteller or the like). She thanked you again for giving her the option to come to USUN. She'd like to call sometime this week to thank you in person. Do you want her to call or should I tell her to send you a note?

828-DC-OOOOOO15 .:

TO: Ambassador Richardson

FROM: Mona Sutphen

SUBJECT: Tidbits

1: Ollie Olivas: I spoke to Laurie Shestack about the call she received from Michael Olivas. She said she told Olivas you were out of the country and asked whether the information about his f her's death should be passed to you immediately. Olivas said 'no." She also said she mentioned it to Ben on Monday or Tuesday s'",(12/29 or 12/30) and that he asked her to write it down -- hence the e-mail she sent on Friday l/2 (after the New Year's holiday) . When I asked her why she delayed in passing the information, she commented that there was no sense of urgency on Olivas' part and that she sent it to Ben immediately upon her return after the holiday.

2. Monica Lewinsky: She has declined the position in the hopes of going private sector (e.g. Burston-Marsteller or the like). She thanked you again for giving her the option to come to USUN. She'd like to call sometime this week to thank you in person. Do you want her to call or should I te her to send you a note? 4

.: GOVERNMENT

828-DC-oooooo17 3448

Martindale, Lynn

From: Logsdon, Wayne To: Martindale, Lynn Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:44AM

You know what I know. wkl

-----Original Message----- From: Martindale, Lynn 2 GOVERNMENTm Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:23 AM To: Logsdon, Wayne f EXHIBIT Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position

So now, who’s on first????

Im

From: Logsdon, Wayne To: Burleigh, Peter Cc: Martindale, Lynn Subject: RE: USUNA# secretarial position Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:43AM

Peter, Thanks for the heads-up. I had initiated the cancellation already since he wanted it done. We look bad waffling on these issues. We need a clearer guidance on the process involving such issues under Amb Richardson. Tks. wkl

-----Original Message----- From: Burleigh, Peter Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:27 AM To: Logsdon, Wayne Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position

WKL - I spoke about this issue with Rebecca Cooper on Friday. She is going to reclama with Richardson today (Monk, since she says he had approved the switch and she still wants it done. Stay tuned. (And don’t cancel the personnel action yet), APB

From: Logsdon, Wayne To: Martindale, Lynn; Frazier, Tracy L; Fairman, Deborah J Cc: Garvin, Emma; Burfeigh, Peter Subject: USUNNV secretarial position Date: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 3:21 PM

Lynn/Tracy, 1 have just been instructed by Ambassador Richardson personally not/not to change the USUN/W secretarial position to Foreign Service. I know that the paperwork has gone through already and that we are scouring the landscape for someone in the FS to fill the slot. I explained that Ms. Cooper asked us to do this and do it quickly. However, he is adamant about keeping it a schedule C-type position.

I apologize for the seeming lack of coordination on this issue. I will take the matter up with Rebecca Cooper personally if you could reverse our previous action and bring it back to a schedule C.

Thanks loads for your help and understanding. wkl _ .-

828-Dc-oooooo18

Page 1 3449

Martindale, Lynn

From: Logsdon, Wayne To: Martindale, Lynn cc: Burleigh, Peter Subject: Monica Lewinski Date: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 3:36PM

Lynn, If this name pops up on your screen, it is one the Ambassador has in mind of bringing on-board as a secretary I believe. More to come as I know it. wkl

f GOVERNMENT EXHIBIT W&/z-/6 9GG----&A

Page 1 VISITOR NOTIFICATION - RESIDENCE 1 I5198

Name: Arrival Date: Arrival Time: Departure Date: Departure Time: Remarks: GABRIEL, ED 1 I7198 2000 llB/9B . unknown JORDAN, VERNON 1 I6198 0800 1 I6198 unknown Breakfast

828-DC-00000020

ACTION : (see RSO Instruction 97- 19) UP0 DISTRIBUTION: SCP (US 1) US 6

Page 1 3451

t&UN - JANIJARY 22. 1998

MONICA LEWINSKY JOB OFFER AT USUN

Background: Ambassador Richardson, who lives full-time in New York as the U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations, regularly stays at the Watergate Hotel when in D.C. for meetings at the White House or on the Hill. He often has meetings at the hotel. His Chief of Staff, Rebecca Cooper, is based in D.C.

Q: Did A m ba ssa d or R’tc h ar d son offer Monica Lewinsky a job at USUN?

A: Last night Ambassador Richardson’s Spokesman said:

Monica Lewinsky was offered a junior public affairs position at the U.S. Mission to the United Nations after being interviewed by Ambassador Richardson and his Chief of Staff in October 1997. The decision to hire Ms. Lewinsky was based on her qualifications, initiative. and reputation as a h. ,,rf worker. The position she was offered was consistent \\-ith her background and expertence at the Department of Defense and the White House. and not based on any other factors. She subsequently informed the Mission that, despite her initial interest in employment at the Mission, she wished to pursue employment in the private sector. There was no pressure by any individual to hire her and nothing improper occurred. The Ambassador routinely meets with qualified candidates for employment at the U.S. Mission.

The Ambassador and his staff only learned of allegations and leaks about this individual this morning through the news media.

828-DC-OOOOOO21 3452

Statement by Calvin Mitchell Spokesman for Ambassador Bill Richardson US Mission to the United Nations New York, New York January 2 1, 1998

Monica Lewinsky was offered a junior public affairs position at the U.S. Mission to the United Nations after being interviewed by Ambassador Richardson and his Chief of Stafl’ in October 1997. The decision to hire Ms. Lewinsky was based on her qualifications. initiative, and reputation as a hard worker. The position she was offered was consistent with her background and experience at the Department of Defense and the White House, and not based on any other factors. She subsequently informed the Mission that, despite her initial interest in employment at the Mission, she wished to pursue employment in the private sector. There was no pressure by any individual to hire her and nothing improper occurred. The Ambassador routinely meets with qualified candidates for employment at the U.S. Mission.

The .4mbassador and his staff only learned of allegations and leaks about this indi\.idual, this morning through the news media. giyif

828-DC-OOOfKJO22 3453

: GOVERNMENT EXHIBIT I&!#-7 2 November 1997 f Dear Betty:

I hope you had an enjoyable weekend. I thought I’d drop you a note since it’s so difficult for both of us to talk at work!

I became a bit nervous this weekend when I realized that Amb. Richardson said his staff would be in touch with me this we&. As you know, the UN is supposed to be my back up but because VJ has been out of town, this is my only option right now. What should I say to Richardson’s people this week when they call? I had mentioned to Richardson that working there was one of the things I was looking at. It probably sounds stupid, but I have absolutely no idea how to tell them, “I’m not sure yet”, in a business-like manner. If you feel it’s appropriate, maybe you could ask “the big guy” what he wants me to do. Ahhhhh...anxiety!!!!!

Also, I don’t think I told you that in my conversation last Thursday night wtth him that he said he would ask you to set up a meeting between VJ and myself, once VJ got back. I assume he’ll mention this to you at some point - hopefully sooner rather than later!

I am enclosing a copy for VJ of the list of advertising/PR finns that I included in “the big guy’s” packet. My hopes are that one of the names will jump out as a place where he o/J) might have a contact.

I mentioned to him that Id like to drop by on Sat. to give you your birthday present and to see him for a bit. He seemed somewhat receptive and said he’d check it out this week. Of course, he’ll forget because in the whole scheme of things it’s not that important and I will, of course, probably have to bug you towards the end of the week with this (something to look forward to I’m sure)!!!!!

I hope to hear from you soon with some guidance. I am mailing my “thank-you-for-meeting-with- me-letter” to Richardson today. I was pleased the UN interview went well, but I’m afraid it will be like being at the Pentagon in NY...YUCK! PLEASE let me know what to do soon!!!!

1,000 thank you’s.

Hugs n’ kisses,

MSL-55-DC4179 3454

CA Davis

From: Lewinsky, Monica, . OSDIPA[SMTP:[email protected] Sent: VVVdr;ir;ay, November 05, 1997 2:16 AM To: Subject: RE: troubs? : GOVERNMENT

OK. I have some bad news. I am off the next trip so i won’t be coming to Tokyo. I am probably sorrier than you are. the truth is it would have been so difficult to spend time together and it probably would have benn more frustrating than anything.

The job thing on Friday went much better than expected. It was nice; the big creep called thursday night and gave me a pep talk because i was so afraid I’d sound like an idiot. Richardson is a great guy and i met two women who work for him...also very cool. Yesterday, Richardson called me at work and told me they were going to offer me a position..they didn’t know what yet, and they wanted to talk with me further. The problem is, I don’t really wnat to work there (issue wise or location wise) I’ve already had the experience of working in a yucky building. It was awful, actually, because i feel a liie trapped into taking it. HOPEFULLY, there will be some movement on the other tracks in NY too. I told mr. bacon I was planning to move and was in the process of looking...which is why i asked him if i could switch trips with tom. The biggest reason i need to do that was because the creep’s friend who is supposed to help me with the private sector possibilities has been out of town the last two weeks. I feel like I’ll lose momentum with them if i disappear for three weeks now (that’s including Thanksgiving). Oy vey!

I’m glad to hear you guys had such a nice weekend. Honestly Cat, it sounds like such a wonderful fantasy to me. To be with yourr husband - as part of a couple with other couples doing couple-y kinds of things and having fun.

My Australian boyfriend CALLED me on Friday to let me know his e-mail was down., He said it had become habit to e-mail me friday nights and he wanted to let me know he couldn’t send anything. I know...when’s the wedding????? Just kiddin’. i miss you tons and am so sad I won’t see you, but maybe we’ll work something out soon. When do you guys come to the states..for holiday? and for good? kisses and hugs Monica -- From: CA Davis To: ‘[email protected]’ Subject: troubs? Date: Monday, Novembei 03.1997 7:15PM

Hi, I sent you a message called ‘quickie’ last wk. but it was = undeliverable for awhile so I’m hoping this will reach you. You’d think = the fn Pentagon could have straightened out email! Anyway, how did = vour ‘meetina’ oo last week? I’m seeina the man on tellie alot because = 1037-DC-00000022 bf the Iraqi n%%ense. I think that could be a cool job, maybe better = than the DOD. I had a long wkend away from home. We went to a friend‘s ofice’s = cottage at Lake Kawaguchi. Its Susan’s office’s cottage and she invited = us and 2 other couples for the 3day wkend- so 4 couples all together. = It was fun- we drank a lot, ate a lot, hiked, walked, lounged, played = games etc.1 was about ready to go home Sunday evening but we left Mon. = morning. I was getting tired of being surrounded by Brits! Actually = one couple is made up of a German woman and a man, Gavin, who is = Page 1 Canadian/Scottish/American. Anyway, Chris and I had Monday alone in the = city because it was a holiday. We went shoppping, had lunch and saw My = Best Friend’s Wedding. It was a thrill to go to the movies and see a = current-ish US movie. I really miss going to the movies as part of a = social life. In the US when you don’t feel like having a big night you = can just have dinner and go to a movie and at least you’re out of = thehouse, but here its expensive and the movies .are crap generally so if = glsyrwt o be mellow Its renbng a movre and eatrng in which gets =

Whoa, I have to go to work! Write back and thanks for the FWs. What = did you pick for the ‘psychological test’? love, Cat

1037~DC-oooooo23

Page 2 mlewinsk (Working Offline)

From: Lewinsky, Monica, , OSD/PA To: elise Subject: Hi honey Date: Tuesday, November 18, 1997 2: 17PM Priority: High

Hi, Uise-

How are you? How’s the family?

It was sb great to see you last month. I am in the process of looking for a position in NY. I have been offered something at the UN, but I’m not reallly that interested in staying in the government. I have afaw leads in the private sector, so we’ll see what happens. I hoping to be up there by January (that may be too hopeful)!!!

I am off to the West coast for Thanksgiving and then on to Europe for a work trip. i hope to pop up to NY sometime mid-December, and I hope we can get together then.

Take care, and keep in touch. hugs n’ kisses Monica

PS I’m dying to hear about how your “date” company is working. Meet mr. right yet????

Page 1 3457

5:15 PM Principals meeting on Iraq, White House

7:00 .PM Mike Parker 2445 RHOB (225-5865 Pat Holland)

OVERNIGHT WATERGATE

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 31, 1997 (HALLOWEEN)

7:30 AM

8:30 AM Ben Gilman 2449 RHOB (225-3776 Ellen)

9:oo AM Xavier Becerra 1119 LHOB (225-6235 Lisa)

9:30 AM Nita Lowey 2421 RHOB (225-6506 Randy Stokes) lo:oo AM Bill Hefner 2470 RHOB (225-3715 Ellen)

10:30 AM Ike Skelton 2227 RHOB (225-2876 Laura)

11:15 AM Bob Clement 2229 RHOB (225-4311 Jana)

11:15 AM Ed Pastor 2465 RHOB (Laura 225-4065) Please change to noon if Livingston cancels

11:30 AM Tom DeLay H-107 Capitol (Pam 225-0197)

12:00 PM Rod Grams

12:30 AM Bob Matsui 2308 RHOB (225-7163 Shirley)

1:00 PM Speaking Engagement - Earthkind, National Press Club (Luncheon begins at Noon)

2:00 PM Depart Washington

3:00 PM Arrive New York

3:30 PM Meeting of the P-5 re Iraq, UN Room C-209

4:00 PM Security Council

6:40 PM Interview - CNN, 461 Eigth Avenue, 20th Floor (Contact 714-7820)

828-DC-oOOOOO23 3458

TUESDAY, JANUARY 6, 1998

8:00 AM Breakfast with Vernon Jordan, Waldorf Astoria Towers (Jordan at St. Regis Hotel - _

9:oo AM General staff meeting

9:30 AM Briefing

10:30 AM Sec&ty Council consultations

2:00 PM Meeting with Susan Kinsley, USUN

2:30 PM Drop by -- students from Stetson University, USUN, 12th Floor

3:30 PM Meeting with USYG Bernard Miyet accompanied by Ambassador Soderberg, UN, 3727-B

4:30 PM Meeting with UNSCOM Executive Director Richard Butler, USUN

8:00 PM Dinner hosted by former Secretary of State Henry Kissinqer IHO Ambassador and

9:45 PM Depart via Amtrak train number 177

828-DC-oOOOOO24 3459

828~DC-oOOOOO25 3460

0B

TO: Ambassador Richardson

FROM: Mona Sutphen

SUBJECT: Tidbits

1. Ollie Olivas: I spoke to Laurie Shestack about the call she received from Michael Olivas. She said she told Olivas you were out of the country and asked whether the information about his er's death should be passed to you immediately. Olivas said She also said she mentioned it to Ben on Monday or Tuesday 9 or 12/30) and that he asked her to write it down -- hence 1 she sent on Friday l/2 (after the New Year's When I asked her why she delayed in passing the information, she commented that there was no sense of urgency on part and that she sent it to Ben immediately upon her return after the holiday.

Monica Lewinsky: She has declined the position in the hopes of going private sector (e.g. Burston-Marsteller or the like). She thanked you again for giving her the option to come to USUN. She'd like to call sometime this week to thank you in person. Do you want her to call or should I her to send you a note?

828-DC-OOOOOO17 3461

Martindale, Lynn ______~__ --_.._

From: Logsdon, Wayne To: Martindale, Lynn Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:44AM

You know what I know. wkl

-----Original Message----- From: Martindale, Lynn Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:23 AM To: Logsdon, Wayne Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position

So now, who’s on first????

Im ____.._____ From: Logsdon, Wayne To: Burleigh, Peter Cc: Martindale, Lynn Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:43AM

Peter, Thanks for the heads-up. I had initiated the cancellation already since he wanted it done. We look bad waffling on these issues. We need a clearer guidance on the process involving such issues under Amb Richardson. Tks. wkl

-----Original Message----- From: Burleigh, Peter Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:27 AM To: Logsdon, Wayne Subject: RE: USUN/W secretarial position

WKL - I spoke about this issue with Rebecca Cooper on Friday. She is going to reclama with Richardson today (Mom, since she says he had approved the switch and she still wants it done. Stay tuned. (And don’t cancel the personnel action yet), APB

From: Logsdon, Wayne To: Martindale, Lynn; Frazier, Tracy L; Fairman, Deborah J Cc: Garvin, Emma; Burleigh, Peter Subject: USUN/W secretarial position Date: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 3:21PM

Lynn/Tracy, I have just been instructed by Ambassador Richardson personally not/not to change the USUNNV secretarial position to Foreign Service. I know that the paperwork has gone through already and that we are scouring the landscape for someone in the FS to fill the slot. I explained that Ms. Cooper asked us to do this and do it quickly. However, he is adamant about keeping it a schedule C-type position.

I apologize for the seeming lack of coordination on this issue. I will take the matter up with Rebecca Cooper personally if you could reverse our previous action and bring it back to a schedule C.

Thanks loads for your help and understanding. wkl

82%DC-O0000018

Page 1 3462

Martindale, Lynn

From: Logsdon, Wayne To: Martindale, Lynn cc: Burleigh, Peter Subject: Monica Lewinski Date: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 3:36PM

Lynn, If this name pops up on your screen, it is one the Ambassador has in mind of bringing on-board as a secretary I believe. More to come as I know it. wkl

828-DC-00000019

Page 1 January 1,998

1 New Year’s Day

828-DC-00000016 21 22 23 24 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 28 29 30 31 22 23 24 25 26 27 28

, 8 9 IO -- ;:30 PM UWashington 8 :00 AM B/Vernon Jordan 7:30 AM BIWH I : 15 PM WMaruice 8:30 AM Secretary’s ‘aim Beach/Orlando Times 8 :00 PM D/IHO Frank 9:00 AM Brookings Sr Templesman Retreat !:30 PM PC Wisner Seminar 1l:OO AM SE/McLaughlin 1:OOPM RfAmb. Carolyn 8:00 PM D/Moroccan PR l-on-l Curie1 5:OOPM SE/Chris Matthews

II I2 13 14 I5 16 17 ‘aim Beach/Orlando ‘aim Beach/Orlando :30 PM PC 7130 AM BIWH 1: 15 PM L/JCS Sheltol 5:OOPM SE/Harvard, Ken. :00 PM SE/U. of New :30 PM SElOps Center 4: 15 PM SEiNick News nedy School Haven w :30 PM D/Tony Podesta 759 PM D/Drop by-IHO 7:30 PM D/Alan Simpson :30 PM SE/World Affairs, Secy Albright Hartford 8:00 PM D/Cooney & Peterson

______19 l0 22 ?4 holiday-Martin Luther :00 AM B/David Dreier 7:;O AM (T) B/WH 1:OOPM SE/Luncheon ;:O PM (T) PC King :30 PM (T) PC 1: 15 PM L/Nancy UNANSA %:OOPM Theatre-Lion 1:OOPM D/Congressman :00 PM SE/Women’s Soderberg 1:30 PM SE-Fund for King Lee Hamilton Foreign Policy Group 8:00 PM D/Leonard Peace :00 PM SE/National Lauder 8:00 PM D/Holbrooke Women Democratic Club 8 :00 PM D/Jim and Emily Scheuer

26 !7 28 29 30 II itlanta - WAC Carter :00 AM B/Japan PR 7:30 AM (T) B/WH 5:00 PM Depart for Zu r:50 AM Arrive Zurich E-Dams conference event Owada 8:00 PM D/Steinberg :30 PM (T) PC :30 PM R/Diplomatic corps :00 PM State of the Union Address 3464

March 20,1997

TO: Ambassador Richardson and Mrs. Richardson

FROM: PROTOCOL - Millie Harmon Meyers

THROUGH: EXECUTIVE - Stu Symington

SUBJECT: DINNER IHO The Secretary General of the UN and Mrs. ANNAN Wednesday, April 23,1997,8:00PM WAT#42A

Permanent Representatives and Senior UN Officials are to be suggested by POLITICAL - Cameron HUME

ENTERTAINMENT/ARTS

Oprah WINFREY and Michael STEDMAN

Jesse NORMAN/ alternative: Kathleen Battle -

Isaac STERN

Bette MIDLER -involved in UNEP - Actress

Olivia NEWTON-JOHN - involved in UNEP + Actress

Kathleen TURNER M Actress

Meryl STREEP - Actress

828-DC-00000026 3465

Judith JAMISON Alvin Aliley Dance Co.

Susan SARANDON ,- Actress

Michael DOUGLAS _ Actor -1

Paul NEWMAN & Joanne WOODWARD -- Wendy WASSERSTEIN Playwright

Liam & Nathasha NEESON - Actor/ Actress

Manny PATAm Actor

Richard AVADON

Nora EPHRON & Nick PIGELLI

828-DC-C)OOOOO27 3466

PUBLIC AFFAIRS ,’ / -’ Arthur and Alexander SCHLESINGER

i/ John WHITEHEAD 1 UNA~USA

‘William vanden HEUVEL Allen and Company - J i-6; GELB \ \ ;’ \ Council on Foreign Relations r

i, Robert CARROW Author, President Johnson --

! 1 i Richard REEVES _-_ L’ / Author, President Kennedy

\ i -Doris Kearns Goodwin Author, Presidental Historian

\ Caroline KENNEDY & Ed SCHLOSSBERG --

/Geraldine FERRARO and John ZUCCOTTI -e-illlc; 1/ anne ASHE P Former Public Delegate and widow of Arthur Ashe

Henry KISSINGER

Cyrus VANCE - I Da&d ROCKEFELLER - Nancy RUBlN I 828-DC-00000028

3 3467

MEDIA/PUBLISHING

Tom BROKAW alternative: Dan Rather, Peter Jennings

Artrhur SULTZBERGER, jr. I alternative: Jack Rosenthal, Joe 5

?z$m@!harla y ne Hunter-Gault

Gloria STEINEM

Ellen LEVINf?_ Good House-keeping

David WESTIN 1 ABCNe&’

Tina BROWN/Harold EVANS _ I New Yorker/Random House. . Graydon CARTER I Vanity Fair

Sy NEWHOUSE Conde Nast

Katherine GRAHAM I Washington Post

828~DC-OOOOOO29

4 3468

BUSINESS/FINANCE T

Felix ROHATYN

Robert DENHAM ’ CEO, President Salomon, Inc.

Ted and Jane TURNER

Sanford WEILL Travelers Inc.

7) ,/ 1 George SOROS Soros Foundation G Pete PETERSON and Joan Ganz COONEY +, Blackstone Group

Vernon JORDON-. 1 Akin, Gump and Strauss fi

6-‘e”’ Ez:nBEz > and Barlet

ickey KANTOR alternative: John Mack, Morgan-Stanley

David PARSONS I Time-Warner - 1 Larry TISH Lionel PI&US Warburg Pingus --B

7 James WOLFENSO 828-DC-00000030 ! World Bank ‘.i i.; \ 3469

DonnaKAFXN -

George STEPHANOPOULOS Columbia Univeristy

Leon BOTSTEIN Bard College

Vartan GORGORIAN soon to be President of Camagie Foundation

Peter GOLDMARK ’ w Retiring President of Rockefeller Foundation

American Museum of Natural History

hair, Musuem of Modem Art

828-DC-O0000031

6 3470

David WEST&, ABC NEWS Tina BROWN/ Harold EVANS, New Y&k&/ Random House Graydon CARTER, Vanity Fair Sy NEWHOUSE, Conde NAST Katherine GRAHM Washington P Arthur and Alexander SCHLESIN 6 John WHITEHEAD

0 Les GELB,ec ild * ‘~cIfi(‘j 1 Dorris KEARNS GOODWIN e Caroline KENNEDY and Ed SCHLOSSBERG Geraldine FERRARO and John ZUCCOTTI * Jeannie ASHE <\,[b Eli WEISSEL-Pmj<<- n Ted SORENSEN c David ROCKEFELLER Nancy RUBIN @ Judith JAMISON

Q %KIII SARANDON 4ichaeI DOUGLAS + Paul NEWMAN - Wendy WbsERSTEIN &i.m~ESON ’ 6 Maxiny PAT9 Richard AVADON Larry TISH Jesse NORMAN I.SZSC STERN (2 12) 903-6600 8 Bette MIDI;‘ER Olivia NEWTON JOHN ._R Meryl STREEP -6*.. * _ Leslie STAHL 2’ LICHTENSTEIN reducer, Brooklyn Academy and Music

Mr. Paul KELLOGG and Mr. Raymond HAN (ANNAN LIST) General and Artistic Director, NYC Opera The New York State Theater

Mr. James C. GOODALE and Mrs. Toni K. GOODALE (ANNAN LIST) Debevoise and Plimpton 875 Third Avenue

Mr. Gilbert E. KAPLAN and Mrs. Lena KAPLAN (ANNAN LIST) Chairman, The Kaplan Foundations

Happy ROCKEFELLER (9 14) 63 l-l 03 1 (ANNAN LIST)

Dr. Donald and Isabel STEWARD (ANNAN LIST) President, the College Board

Charlaye HUNTER-GUALT (ANNAN LIST) WNET - Channel 13 (703) 998-2800x2893, Donna 828-DC-00000033

Vernon JORDON, Akin Gump and Strauss, 887-4000 SULTZBERGER, Jr. 556-l 234 yvb 1d@ c Ed BRADLEY 975-88551757-6975 3472

To invite Dending on available sDace

T.H. Floyd FLAKE (D-6th) (202) 225-3461 T.H. Ed TOWNS (D-10th) (202) 225-5936 T.H. Charles RANGEL (D- 15th) (202) 225-4365 T.H. Major OWENS (D-l lth) (202) 225-623 1 Rodman ROCKEFELLER

UNITED NATIONS

Ibrahim FALL Asst. Sec. for Pol. Affairs

Hedi ANNAEU Assist. Sec’t General for Peace Keeping

USUN Warren FORREST

828-DC-oOOOOO34 /

12 3473

Dinner hosted the Representative of the United States of America to the United Nations and Mrs. Richardson In honor of the Secretary General of the United Nations

4/l/97 as’ Acceptance&& e Ambassador Richardson Mrs. Richardson Secretary General Annan Mrs. Annan

ACCEPTANCES

Susan BERESFORD The Ford Foundation

Tom BROKAW NBC News Meredith BROKAW

Ellen FUTTER President, American Museum of Natural History Mr. John SHUTKIN Assoc. General Counsel; KPMG Peat Marwick LLP

Mrs. Agnes GUND Chair, Museum of Modem Art Mr. GUND

Ambassador William vanden HEUVEL Allen and Company Mrs. Melinda vanden HEUVEL Author

Peter GOLDMARK President, The Rockefeller Foundation Ms. Aliette GOLDMARK

Steve GREENBERG Classic Sports TV Myma Greenberg

82%DC-00000035

3475

Dinner hosted by Ambassador Bill Richardson In honor of Bryant Gumbel and African hiember States to the United Nations Wednesday, April 2,1997 8:00 PM WAT #42A

Amb. Richardson Mr. Gumbel Mrs. Richardson Acceptances: 48 412197 4:30 PM

ACCEPTANCES

PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVES

CAMEROON Minister Jean-Marc MPAY

COMOROS Minister Mohamed Aboud MAHMOUD Cliarge

COTJZ D’IVOIRE Mr. Largaton OUATTARA

GABON H.E. Mr. Denis DANGUE REWAKA

GAMBIA H.E. Mr. Momodou Kebba JALLOW Permanent Representative

828-DC-OOOOOO37 3476

GUINEA H.E. Mrs. Mahawa Bangoura CAMAR4

GUTNEA BISSAU H.E. Mr. Alfiedo Lopes CABRAL Permanent Representative

LESOTHO H.E. Mr. Percy Metsing MANGOAELA Permanent Representative

LIBERIA H.E. Mr. William BULL Permanent Representative

MAURITIUS H.E. Mr. Taye Wah Michel WAN CHAT KWONG Permanent Representative

MOROCCO H.E. Mr. Ahmed SNOUSSI Permanent Representative

MOZAMBIQUE H-E. Mr. Carlos DOSSANTOS Permanent Representative -

NIGERIA H.E. Prof. Ibrahim A. GAMBARI Permanent Representative /-

2 3477

NIGER HE. Mr. Joseph DIATTA Permanent Representative

SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE Mr. Domingos August0 FERREIRA Charge

SIERRA LEONE H.E. Mr. James O.C. JONAH Permanent Representative _ SOMALIA Ms. Fatun Mohamed HASSAN Charge, Second Counsellor

SWAZILAND Mr. Moses Mathendele DLAMINI dPermanent Re resentative TANZANIA H.E. Mr. Daudi Ngelautwa MWAKAWAGO Permanent Representative

TUNISIA H.E. Mr. Slaheddine ABDELLAH Permanent Representative

UGANDA H.E. Prof. Matia Mulumba SEMAKULA KIWANUKA I

3478

ZAIRE Mr. Khabouji N’Zaji LUKABU

UNITED NATIONS

Ibrahim FALL Assistant Secretary General for Political Affairs

Hedi ANNABl Assistant Secretary Genera! for Peacekeeping

Gus SPETH UNDP (2 12) 906-579 1 Tony

Mr. Diallo UNDP

Carol BELLAMY

OTHER GUESTS

Ambassador Marshall McCALLIE USG Lead for the .tica Crisis Response Initiative

Alberta ARTHURS

Andrew ATHY 2540 M&x. Avenue Washinnton, DC 20008

828-DC-OOOOOO40 David DINKINS

4 3479

H. Carl MCCALL Office of the StateComptroller

Nadine HACK Jerry DUNFFEY 870 United Nations Plaza New York, New York 10018 \ Andrew HEYWARD President, CBS News

Matt LAUER NBC This Morning

John STACKS Exec. Editor, T$ne Magazine Time Life Building 127 1 Avenue of the Americas 828-DC-OOOOOO41 3480

New York, New York 10020

Maurice TEMPELSMAN Leon Tempelsman and Son

Angela E. VALLOT Arent Fox

USU-N Ambassador INDERFURTH Mr. HUME Calvin MITCHELL Robin MEYER Laurie SHESTACK

TO HEAR FROM

CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC H.E.

6 7

3481

(2 12) 689-9693

CHAD H.E. Mr. Ahmat MAHAMAT SALEH Permanent Representative

828~DC-CK)OOOO43 3482

REGRETS

ALGERIA H.E. Mr. Abdallah B&U1 Permanent Representative

ANGOLA H.E. Mr. Afonso VAN DUNEM “Mbinda” Permanent Remesentative

BENIN H-E. Mr. Fassassi A. YACOUBOU Permanent Representative

RWANDA H.E. Mr. Gideon KAYINAMURA Permanent Representative

BOTSWANA H.E. Mr. Legwaila Joseph LEGWAILA Permanent Representative

BURUNDI H.E. Mr.Terence NSANZE Permanent Representative Y . -

BURKINA FASO H-E. Mr. Gaetan Rimwanguiya OUEDRAOGO Permanent Representative *- .

CAPE VERDE H.E. Mr. Jose Luis Barbosa LEA0 MONTEIRO Permanent Representative

8 3483

CONGO H.E. Mr. Daniel ABIBI

DJIBOUTI H-E. Mr. Roble OLHAYE

EGYPT H.E. Dr. Nabil A. ELAR4BY Permanent Representative

ETHIOPIA H.E. Dr. Duri MOHAMMED Permanent Representative

GHANA H.E. Mr. Jocob Bohve WILMOT

KENYA H.E. Mr. Njuguna M. MAHUGU

MADAGASCAR H.E. Mr. Jean Pierre RAVELOMANANTSOA RATSIMIHAH Permanent Representative

1MALAWl H.E. Prof David RUBADIRI

MAURITANIA H.E. Mr. Ahmed OULD SID’ AHMED 828~DC-oooooo45 Permanent Representative 3484

(2 12) 986-7963

ERITREA H.E. Mr. Amdemicael KAHSAl

MALI H.E. Mr. Moctar OUANE

NAMIBIA H.E. Mr. Martin ANDJABA Permanent Representative

SEYCHELLES H.E. Mr. Claude MOREL Ambassador

SENEGAL H.E. Mr. Ibra Deguene KA

SOUTH AFRICA H.E. Mr. Khiphusize J. JELE

TOGO H.E. Mr. Roland KPOTSRA Permanent Remescntative

ZAMBIA H.E. Mr. Peter Lesa KASANDA 828~DC-oooooo46

10 3485

ZIMBABWE H.E. Mr. Machivenyika Tobias MAPLR%_KGA

EQUATORIAL GUlNEA H.E. Mr. Pastor MICHA ONDO BILE Permanent Reoresentative

OTHER GUESTS

C. Payne LUCAS President. AFRICARE

Tiny ROWLAND

Ms. Martha STEWART

R GI JESTS

Peter LUND President. CEO CBS 5 1 West 52nd Street New York, New York 10019 828-DC-oooooo47

Alec BALDWIN 3486

Lisa Kaste*e_

Sidney POITIER Actor

Paul SIMON (2 12) 685-4300

Bill KELLER The New York Times .W

Tina ROSENBERG The New York Times

Joseph LELWELD Exec. Editor, The New York Ties

Charlayne HUNTER GAULT

Maynard PARKER

Colin CAMPBELL President, Rockefeller Brothers Fund

Jim HOGE President, Foreign Affairs Magazine 828-DCM1oooo48 k

Vernon JORDON Akin Gum and Strauss i&L- Gail

12 3487

Aryeh NJZIR

KarI MEYER

Mom MCLEAN 1 w Institute

13 3488

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17L97 12117197

4,s M P

/ tiurs Alberta Asenkenye-0 Ms. UNDHA &--&_ /-)? z- flu’ (- Ashe Jeanne \ I 1 Aubry The Hon. Albert State Assembly Avant Mr. & Mrs. Clarence zzk.Lr; &;,&,q I-5 Baali Amb. Abdallah PR Algeria Bakewell Mr. & Mrs. Danny J. Brotherhood Crusade Baldwin IAlec Bamba IAmb. Youssoufou PR Cote d’Ivoire I I Baradei /Dr. Mohammed El IIAEA Basinger Kim Bea, Jr. IThe Hon. Samuel /State Assembly ,A Beals IGreg Newsweek Belafonte Mr. & Mrs. Harry formerly UNICEF I I , \ I [Bellamy ICarolI [UNICEF IBeresford (Susan IFord Fdtn. erman (Herbert * City Hall Y/F 4Berrocal-Soto [Fernando PR Costa Rica @&-teling Jan DPR Netherlands Blaylock Mr. & Mrs. Ronald Blaylock & Partners Bloomberg Michael Bloomberg Radio 363rt Carroll Bogojavlensk Kristina Tiffany & Co. Booker ISalih * /Council Foreign Rltns. /Booker /Council on Foreign Relatio 1 Borges Mr. Francisco & Guest Managing Director/ PF 4 Boyland The Hon. William F. State Assembly Bradley Mr. Ed CBS Brown Mr. Roscoe CUNY Grad Center Brown Esmeralda LBf&vn David W. Chase Manhattan A Bull Amb. William PR Liberia ~~~-Dc-ooooo~~

A 3489

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 12117197

Last name 1 First name Affiliation response Burkle Mr. & Mrs. Ronald * IYucaipa Co. Burrows Virmie Bustamante Mr. John H. & Guest ,CZrmira Amb. Mahawa Bangour PR Guinea &mpbell Rev. Joan Brown Nat’1 Council of Churches Carroll Rosemary A Chenault Kenneth & Mrs. AMEX R /Clanham (Mr. Andrew (Amnesty International 1 ICGk lThe.Hon. Barbara M. (State Assembly I ,&ke The Hon. Una City Council - Comror The Hon. Martin R ICook IThe Hon. Vivian /State Assembly Cooper NPR Cos$y Mr. & Mrs. William &&ch, Esq. Jamir cox Mr. & Mrs.Maurice * Pensi-Cola K Mr. & Mrs. Maurice IPepsi-Cola Co. Crew (Chancellor Rudy /Board of Ed .K&ette Barbara NY Times Davenport Mr. & Mrs. Chester Envirotest Systems ,&35vis Mr. Kevin & Guest (May Davis group IDavis (The Hon. Gloria /State Assembly &&unmet IAmb. Alain (PR F rance Derryck Vivian African American Inst. R Desai Nitin UN-DPCSD A &&hazer Mac National Summit on Africa Diatta (Amb. Joseph * PR Niger IDinkins /Hon. & Mrs. David /Maybe I Dj abir Amb. Ahrned PR Comoros Dlamini Amb. Moses Mathendel PR Swaziland Dodson Howard Schomberg Center tl%lev (Mr. & Mrs. Harold d%i Santos (Amb. Carlos IPR Mozambique Duke Robin Population Action Int’l Dulany Peggy Synergos Inst. R Dunham Mr. & Mrs. Lee TCB Management Corp. IEdelman Mr. & Mrs. Martin 1 I I 1Elarabv IAmb. Nabil A. IPR Ef-cmt I I Erwa Amb. Elfatih Mohamed PR Sudan 828DC-O0000051 Eve The Hon. Arthur 0. State Assembly 3490

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 12117197

Last name 1 First name Affiliation response Fall (Ibrahima Farrell Jr. The Hon. Herman D. State Assembly t l&ill0 Ms. Linda NBC A FaY Ms. Toni & Guest Time-Warner Inc. Ferguson Mr. Joel & Guest WLAJ-TV IFemandez IAmb. Antonio Deinde (PR Central African Renubli/R IFerrari /Mr. & Mrs. Frank IPro Ventures Inc. Ferreira Mr. Domingos Augosto Charge, Sao Tome & princi Fields The Hon. C. Virginia City Council Flake The Hon Rev. Floyd H. /Former Mem. of Congress R Fletcher Alphonse Jr. & guest Fletcher Asset Managemen RR Flores Joanne NYU Forbes Mr. & Mrs. George L. Foster The Hon. Rev. Wendell State Assembly Fowler IAmb. Roberty R. PR Canada R Friedman (Josh Newsdav A , M &3ci Amb. Francesco Paolo PR Italy A ,&mbari Amb. Ibrahim A. PR. Nigeria Gates Prof. Henry Louis “Skip Harvard U. R Gatling Mr. & Mrs. Luther Pres. 100 Black Men Gelb Leslie Council on Foreign Relatio R

Gourevitch Philip Grass0 Mr. & Mrs. Richard NYSE Graves Mr. & Mrs. Earl G. Black Enterprise Green Mr. & Mrs. Ernest Lehman Bros. 82%DC-oooooo52 Green The Hon. Roger L. State Assembly A Greene The Hon. Aurelia [State Assembly R 3491

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 12/17/97

Last name 1 First name Affiliation response IGriffith /The Hon. Edward /State Assembly

[Gumble (Mr. Brvant. 1 tJ&hani Amb. Ali PR Tunisia ,&ck Nadine A .,&id Jeff * 1199 Union Hoge Jim Foreign Affairs R es Joan The Hunger Project A 1Mr.Atoki /Charge Dem Rep. of Cong I IIsaacson /Walter * (Time Man. [Jackson l~r. George & Guest IMotown Records I I I IMiss Santita & Guest 1 I I I es [Herbert IJamison 1Judith (Alvin Ailey Dance Co. [Jele [Amb. Khipusizi Josiah IPR South Africa Jerry Dunfey Jessen-Peters ‘Soren UNHCR R Johnson Mr. & Mrs. Tom CNN IJohnson Mr. & Mrs. Roy [Fortune Mag. 1Johnson Mr. & Mrs. John H. /Johnson Publishing Co. I I Jonah Amb. James O.C. PR Sierra Leone Jones Gerald Am. Red Cross Jones IElaine R. NAACP, Legal Defense Fu A Jones /Thomas (Travelers Gr. IJordan (Mr. Vernon I I &&ph IEvelyn ** VP Chase Manhattan A Joseph Dorothy Davis African Am. 1st. Judy Aita USIA IAmb. Ibra Deguene IPR Senegal Karatnycky Adriane Freedom House .&&&da Amb. Peter Lesa PR Zambia ,&&munura Amb. Gideon PR Rwanda Keller Bill NY Times IKing Akerele (Olubanke IUN IA 1 [Mr.John & Guest /Metromedia Co. v~lsun - Barbara, Esq. Kpostra Amb. Roland PR Togo [Celhia IJeune Afrique IA &iivrov Amb. Sergey V. PR Russian Fed. 828~DCXOO#o53 Leewaila Amb. Josenh PR Botswana A Reuters 3492

RECEPTION MO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 12117197

Last name First name I Affiliation response Levine Ian (Amnesty Int’l A ,=+y Harold A Levy Mr.&Mrs.Alain Polygrarn Int’l RR Lewis Ms. Loida Nicolas & G Chair, TLC Beatrice &&is Mr. & Mrs. Ed Essence A [Reta & Carlton IArter & Hadden ILewis . [Byron & Guest kJniworld &OUD~C.

I Lyn/ch (Mr. & Mrs. Bill IMacAndrews & Forbes Ho1 4&f adore [Mr. Yvon IUNDHA

I 828-~~, -oooooo54 IMiyet /Bernard kJN-DPKO I I ammed Amb. Dr. Duri IPR Ethiopia

Page 5 3493

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 12/17/97

&ast name First name Affiliation response A2or$eiro iArnb. Antonio Victor M IPR Portugal QvI&teiro IAmb. Jose Luis BarbosaIPR Cape Verde (Montgomery IThe Hon. Velmanette (State Senate iu Morel Amb. Claude Charge, Seychelles ,fioss Jennings A MP~Y Mr. Jean Marc Charge, Cameroon Mymze Margarita Afiicam American Inst. A @wakawago Amb. Daudi N. PR Tanzania Mwamba Kap Amb. Andre PR Dem Republic of Cong Ndamzaniye Amb. Gamaliel PR Burundi Neier IAryeh Pres. Open Society Inst. Neisloss Liz CNN Noble Gil ABC/TV Like It Is horman, Jr. [The Hon. Clarence IState ‘Assembly I I IMargaret A. (UN-DPI Ohiorhenuan John UN Olhaye Arnb. Roble PR Djibouti Omolo IThomas * Mission of Kenya &r 1Dr. & Mrs. Alphonso ia Osborne /Tom ABC otllnnu [Dr. 0lar0 Int’l Peace Academy Ouane IAmb. Moctar PR Mali Ouedraogo /Amb. Gaetan Rimiwang PR Burkina Faso IOuld Deddac [Amb. Mahfoudh - (PR Maritania IOwada \Amb. Hisashi /PR Japan I ) Owens The Hon. Major R. Mem. of Congress Palmer Mr. & Mrs. Robert Digital Equipment Corp. Papkristou Alexander VP&k Amb. (park) Soo Gil PR Korea (Parker (Maynard /Newsweek II-i I Parsons Richard Pres. Time Warner Patterson The Hon. David State Senate I Pauley /Jane (Pearlstine INorman I I Pederson Eigil Int’l Red Cross Penketh Anne AFP Perovitch Adriana Perrill Calibome A Perry The Hon. N. Nick State Assembly 828-DC-00000055 Phillips Stone NBC /

Page 6 3494

RECEPTION II-IO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 12117197

-_ IReynolds IDr. Timothy I I Rhodes Bill * * /Citibank A Rhone Ms. Sylvia & guest Elektra Entertainment Rice Tracy, Esq. &Vera Mr. & Mrs. Dennis Local 1199 lRiza /Mr. Iqbal

I (Sal1 1DP Affairs __ S&lh Amb. Abdoulie Momdo PR Gambia Scarborough The Hon. William State Assembly Schuler Margaret Women, Law & Dev’t Int. &6abrook The Hon. Larry bburot_ State Senate AA Semakula Ki Amb. Matia Mlumba PR Uganda

,Sf&.rpton Rev. & Mrs. Al 82%DC-00000056 Shaw Theodore I ~~ ~~-~~ I I Silver ISheldon ISpeaker of the Assembly (

Page 7 3495

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-17-97 1207197

Last name First name AffXation response Simon Mr. Paul & Guest Simon Mr.& Mrs. Amie Calvin Klein Jeanswear Co Singh Eleanor UN Sirleaf Ellen Johnson UN I I IThe Hon. Ada L. (State Senate ,860ussi ‘Amb. Abmed * PR Morocco Soal Mr. Peter Mission of S. Africa A ISomavia IArnb. Juan IPR Chile

ISutton (Mr. & Mrs. Percy Ellis 1 ,4adesse Ytlti Rainbow/ PUSH A Tatum Mr. & Mrs. Bill * Amsterdam News Templesman Maurice * I /l-hOIilElS (Franklin /Ford fdtn. IA I Thompson Angus Iformer USUN Thompson William C. Pres. Board of Ed R Titov DmitIV UN-DPKO lTou.re (Duada -I

82%DC-00000057

Page 8 3496

RECEPTION IHO JESSE JACKSON 12-l 7-97 12/17/97

828-DC-C)OOOOO58

Page 9 3497

828-DC-00000059 828-DC-OoOoo60 . 1

3499

828-DC-00000061 3500

828-DC-00000062 3501 1 LAST NAME ( FIRST NAME TITLE AFFILIATION JR / PERM REP DEM REP OF CONGO

...~--~-ABELIAN ;MOVSES CHARGE ARMENIA ;ABlBl ;DANIEL ______.PERM REP __~.. CONGO-. -~._-.-._. ._ ___ ,MR. SPllZER ,ABRAHAM___^__--- !DAN ABU-NIMAH~ _~____ ‘HASAN _-_. ,PERM REP ‘JORDAN ABZUG BELLA ,MS. ;NGO - WED0 -. .___-_ ADAMS _1ALVIN ~ .-..__ ;HoN. & MRS. ‘PRESIDENT, UNA-USA ADWAR ;HARP?f ;MR. 6, MRS. _ SPITZER

.___,AGATHOCLEOUS ..~~_.__- INlCOS IPERM REP lCYPRUS .-_____ x ,_.--AGUIAR ‘CRISTINA IPERM REP iDOMINICAN REPUBLIC iRAFEEUDDlN :UNDER SEC GEN IUN - UNDP AHMED 1 ‘Al ELLO

IASSIST-ADMIN iUN - UNDP SPERM REP TAJIKISTAN

[~~AGANY ,GAAFAR ACING PERM REP__~.._ ‘SAUDI ARABIA_ --_. .~. ~_ .__ ‘ALTMAN“.~_.. 6,_ KAZICK~ROGER & JURATE ‘MR. & MS. iPROTOCOL ,AMORlM ~CELSO PERM REP iBRAZIL r ------: IANDJABA MARTlN __.__PERM .._REP __ !NAMBIA +* [AND0 HIROFUMI ASSIST SEC GEN UN - POPULATlON FUND r---~- -- ____-. -._ IANNABI HEDI ASSIST SEC GEN ;UN - DPKO $NNAN IlJN IKOFI _. .____SYG , * I._

~.ASNES ,NORMA ,MS. 1___.-,.IHALL .__ .._--.__ I rATAEVA :AKSOLTAN lPERM REP WRKMENISTAN !PERM REP ‘\ :MR. 6, MRS. , ?‘OUSSOUFOU ,PERM REP -_ iCOTE D’IVOIRE----.__.__e_ IBARKIN --._. ;BEN MR. ISP~IZER /&ARN~~ :JANn & IRWIN ..__--IMR. 6,_. MRS. .-. iPROTOCOL __I_ ‘BAFfl-ELS !JOE MR. /PROTOCOL

SBAR~ --_ SANFORD & CONNI ,MR. 8. MRS. j~pf22ER ~~AuMANIS iAIVARS PERM REP llAlVlA 1 ‘BEL HADJ AMOR IMOHSEN CHAIRMAN /UN - ICSC

JIBELLAMY CAROL _.--.‘_ EXEC~~VE__ -___ DIRECT /UNICEF , / BEN GURION ALON 6, ANASTASI MR. 6, MRS. SPITZER_.__~.‘_‘.___._.~_ BERGER IAMuR IMR. E; MRS. FURLEIGH I BERROCAL_.______-___ SOT0 FERNANDO ‘PERM REP COSTA RICA I BIALKIN KENNETH ‘MR. cli,MRS. -./SPTTZERF -.__-..~. ___ j3IORN LIAN HANS IPERM REP INORWAY -/ iBLANK ~ ISTEVE MR. IspmER

~~~-DC-~IKQOO~ PAGE I RECEITON IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23. I997 I o/27/97

828-DC-65 PAGE 2 3504

RECEFTION IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23. I997 I o/27/97

PERM REP MOZAMBIOUE

:MANFRED

828-DC-oooooo66 3505

RECEPTION TV HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23, I997 I O/27/97

.__~ -_ __ INISTRATION 6. MA

/DR. 1L MRS.

,SAUL 6. ELLIE MR. & MRS. 5PfTZER

828-DC-oOCK-@o6~ PAGE 4 RECEPTION IN ~IONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23. I997 I O/27/97

MR. 6, MRS.

828~DC-oooooo68

PAGE 5 3507

RECEFI-ION IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23. 1997 I O/27/97

~-___ _ FIRST NAME TITLE AFFILIATION SR -.___ -..______PERM REP .-_.- ANDORRA_ _.__ _.~__,_ BERNARD ‘UNDER SEC GEN UN-DPKO .._

.___

PERM REP LEBANON

~_.

lPETER 6, CAROL IMR. 6, MRS. BCUN -_-.

828~Dc-oooaw)69 PAGE 6 3508

RECEPTION IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23. I997 I O/27/97

;SEYMOUR ‘MR. ‘SPllZER

DENIS DANGUE PERM REP ._- ‘GABON ‘BELGIUM

828-DC-00000070 PAGE 7 3509

RECEPTION IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE 23, IQ97 I O/27/97

- .- -____ _- _-LAST NAME / FIRST NAME Tl?7_E AFFIUAT~ON _._ R SOEEL iRONALD #RABBI 6 MRS. _. _._L-. ‘SPRZER --...- izi- --~JUAN ipERM-.- REP iCHILE I=SONNENFELDT !MICHAEc& KATJA ‘MR. cf MRS. $SPi-lZER - !ZiGGiT~.1-----._~ ,Gil._LlAN :ASSlST SEC &-EN ‘UN - FmRNj_. . . _. . . ..4L RELAllONS r--SPAHN ~ CONNIE 945. PROTOCOL __~~.__ .._.~~~ _-- __ ..- iGUS iADMINI%RATOR UNDP_.____- --.-. --- iAlEX !MR. 6. E,IRS. ‘SPi-lZER

HON. & MRS.

_..__~ .-. _____-- ‘DONALD DR. AND MRS ___.~_-._--.

~_---_ !SlRONG jMAURlCE UNDER SEC GEN UN REFORM-_ /s!izHARIPA----.-/_ ,ERNST ~~ ‘PERM REP ‘AUSTRIA -______.-.._ lKRl.SSY !MS. [PROTOCOL

+ASTA ____ SENATOR ~IBRAH~MA .AMB. P_FRM OBSE jOAU -%LYAKSANDR ‘- !PERM REP GkR ‘LAWRENCE CHARGE _. ~BELIZE __ %mLBOT LESLIE --. ‘MS. hiALL I_.LE BARON -.. #MR. HAtl iMANUEL ,PERM REP MEXICO

:DANIEL P; DASSY DR. & MRS. _- SPrZER_ I ..__ ‘VICTOR E. DEP. PERM OBSE iOAU_m F--ORCNNER ‘JIM &jADlS DR: & MRS. ,$&ER ‘KERSTIN -. :ASSIST SEC GEN -/UN IPERM REP - .- iBHUTAN !P~RM RI -- ;PERM REP /UKRAINE

;PERM RIZP -iECUADOR ___ -- ‘HON. - IGUARINI__. -. :PERM RI IANGOLA VANDEN HEUV& l%%mlNA !MS. - EqmOR l&GO - +l-iE Nz iON” VARSO /JAN ~CHARGE SLOVAK REPUL _iC __ VEG EGA +RLOS ,VICE-CHAIRMAN $JN - ICSc: ..- VELLISTE-- mlVIMI :&RM REP - -/EST-NIA IV OGELMAN iClAlR JMRS. ISP~ER.__ lVoHlDoV iALlSHER IPERM RIEP ~uZBEKISTAN _ __ !IHOMA~ & ANITA /MR. 6. MRS. i6CUN IHARRY IMR. jSPllZER , KWON 3-AYE WAH Mh-lEL ;PERM REP /MAURITIUS /ARNOLD ‘MR. h MRS.

[WEHBE IMIKHA~L SPERM R

828-DC-OOiXWO71 PAGE 8 3510

RECE-IP~ON IN HONOR OF AGENDA 2 I , JUNE i

-- __I --~ ~~_I____ ----- ASSIST-I__ ADMINIST___--- UN PERM REP GH, MS. HAL ZBIGNIEW PERM REP POL LOUIS --- ~&AN --- I___ PERM II__.-~...REP - -- LUZ &DAM I_~.. -.I__~‘PERM REP ____BEh __-_ ‘HERBERT-- GEORGE-I____._ PERM _~_____REP SAlI $_I2 ____l___i___ ;MS. HAL ------PERM .---REP ~ GRE ____I______MR. -!?!9 --___ZERILLI-MARIMO !MAf$JCCIA ,BARONESS ~~- GUA ZIZZA ISALVATORE 6, DEB MR. 6, MRS. GUAI ZUMBADO ‘FERNANDO EDUAR ASSIST ADMINIST UN -

PAGE 9 3511 E BY VWON JORDAN ON DEC-ER 11. 1997

No. Time Call from Call to Length of call

1 09:45 AM Vernon Jordan's Peter Georgescu, Young & Rubicam,_ 0:36 office, vm

2 lo:39 AM Vernon Jordan's Neysmith, American Express, _ lo:54 ( I I office, _ 3 lo:59 AM Vernon Jordan's Barbara Neysmith, American Express, m 3:36 office, 1-b v % 4 11:12 AM Vernon Jordan's Howard Gittis, Revlon, a-b 4~24 g office, i-4

5 11:17 AM Vernon Jordan's Ambassador Richardson, United Nations, 212- 3:12 office, :_F 415-4404 6 12:47 PM Vernon Jordan's Barbara Neysmith, American Express, m I I I office, a_ I _ 7 12:49 PM Vernon Jordan's Peter Georgescu, Young & Rubicam, m office, 7-1 t 8 12:51 PM Vernon Jordan's Howard Gittis, Revlon, 2'_i& office, _ 9 01:06 PM Vernon Jordan's Barbara Neysmith, American Express, N office, 4-m _

10 01:07 PM Vernon Jordan's Richard Halperin, Revlon, _ 1:06 office, i-b Dale lime Duration From Phone From Nom* To Phone To Name Call ID

02l27/19% 08 48 00 00 01 .w (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154058 UIiEXTENSlON 4ooo6 04/04/l 9% 18 34 00 00 01 .W (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 415~4058 UN EXTENSION 4w31 04104/l 9% 1e 34 29 00 01 59 (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 4154058 UN EXTENSION 42012 -__ 04/05/l 9% 17 38 00 00 01 00. (703) 697.9312 LEWINSKY. MONICA; DONOVAN, JOHN/P (212) 415-4058 & =&sEN 40062 ~~-____-~~~ 04/05/l 9% 17 38 24 w:w.49 (703) 697-9312 LEWIN~KY, MONICA. DONOVAN, JOHN/P ~li@5_405e UN EXTENSION 42022 04/19/19%132500 00.01 .W (703) 697-9312 LtiWIii

2

; GOVERNMENT EXHIBIT !A@4 -/I I,a 2?dQf fl& 3514

Atlantic TEMPO MDR for 7036979312 per DTS-W Request dated 24 FEE 98 / DEST_TN DURATION Start date-time oRIG_TN _- --___---- _----__-____------_~--~----~-~~~~~-~ - 6979312 000:02:22 13NOV97 10:37:05 7tiJ6979312 000:01:40 13NOV97 11:06:57 7036979312 000:00:03 13NOV97 11:20:19 7036979312 000:03:20 13NOV97 11:25:46 7036979312 000:00:09 13NOV97 11:29:43 7036979312 000:00:17 13NOV97 11:50:49 7036979312 000:28:20 13NOV97 11:59:25 7036979312 000:21:52 13NOV97 12:25:17 7036979312 0OO:OO:lO 13NOV97 13:15:50 7036979312 000:00:23 13NOV97 13:36:43 7036979312 000:00:14 13NOV97 14:25:19 7036979312 000:02:30 13NOV97 14:26:56 7036979312 000:00:42 13NOV97 14:32:00 7036979312 000:00:08 13NOV97 14:37:31 7036979312 000:00:18 13NOV97 14:42:12 7036979312 000:00:44 13NOV97 14:49:37 7036979312 000:00:30 13NOV97 14:53:59 7036979312 000:02:39 13NOV97 15:04:13 7036979312 000:22:04 13NOV97 15:10:25 7036979312 000:04:17 13NOV97 16:29:31 7036979312 000:00:40 13NOV97 16:33:07 7036979312 000:00:14 13NOV97 16:34:18 7036979312 000:03:44 13NOV97 16:47:04 7036979312 000:00:11 13NOV97 17:22:43 7036979312 000:00:09 13NOV97 17:24:05 7036979312 000:00:05 13NOV97 17:24:32 7036979312 000:02:26 13NOV97 17:44:52 7036979312 000:07:04 13NOV97 18:23:35 - 6979312 000:00:08 13NOV97 18:29:39 i ,,6979312 000:05:42 13NOV97 18:50:34 7036979312 000:00:21 13NOV97 19:08:42 7036979312 000:00:50 13NOV97 19:47:46 7036979312 000:20:08 14NOV97 07:57:24 7036979312 000:00:29 14NOV97 08:27:55 7036979312 000:00:15 14NOV97 08:30:24 7036979312 000:00:05 14NOV97 08:42:40 7036979312 000:02:19 14NOV97 08:58:15 7036979312 000:00:16 14NOV97 09:12:24 7036979312 000:00:15 14NOV97 09:52:34 7036979312 000:00:35 14NOV97 09:53:36 7036979312 000:05:40 14NOV97 09:58:41 7036979312 000:12:01 14NOV97 10:03:29 7036979312 000:02:12 14NOV97 10:21:44 7036979312 000:02:04 14NOV97 10:23:39 7036979312 000:02:32 14NOV97 10:25:24 7036979312 000:05:34 14NOV97 10:43:37 7036979312 000:00:46 14NOV97 11:25:23 7036979312 000:00:22 14NOV97 11:26:21 7036979312 000:06:45 14NOV97 11:27:24 833-DC-00017904 7036979312 000:00:36 14NOV97 12:06:25 7036979312 000:00:24 14NOV97 12:41:24 7036979312 000:00:22 14NOV97 12:53:47 7036979312 000:02:13 14NOV97 13:31:35 7036979312 000:00:28 14NOV97 13:57:07 7036979312 000:00:18 14NOV97 13:59:58 '036979312 000:00:50 14NOV97 14:00:45 7 6979312 000:00:30 14NOV97 14:16:25 6979312 000:00:43 14NOV97 14:22:10 iO36979312 000:01:41 14NOV97 14:50:11 '036979312 0OO:OO:lO 14NOV97 15:02:44 'age: 5 s*1*cuon Datai maport a.?..:s.wrd.y. JaWW 24. 1990 OIC - m - 0141 tu: 1:33:24 m AmNGUrP /

ml-c ____---- ______------v- ______12111197 0rOO:JO 5261 UASZ-1 Loclrz 141 12/11/97 0103100 526l uuZ8 VA mcu 14: 12/11191 0:00148 4260 EAlvlAXr VA OS-IL 194 12/11/97 0101106 4260 uAsi!e VA UCAL 141 12/n/97 OxO3r42 4260 u?z 1OQD 194 12/11/97 0100t36 4260 Nm Yen N-7 OS-OL 194 run/93 10: 18 O:Olrl2 4260 YASZ-1 L&u 141 12/11/97 10:X Or02154 5262 maxx n OS4L 191 0799972900 12/11/97 10:39 0:00:54 4260 194 12/11/97 10:57 0:01t00 4260 194 12/11/97 10:59 OrO3:36 5262 191 0799972900 12/11/97 11:12 0:04124 4260 194 12:11/97 11:17 0103r12 4260 194 12/11/97 11:23 o:olloo 4260 141 12/11/97 11x42 0102r54 4260 194 12/11/97 11:55 or09:30 5262 191 0799972800 12/11/97 12:05 0102r12 4260 194 12/U/97 12:lO 0:09:00 5262 llmmRuY OS-OL 191 0799972900 12/n/97 12124 0:03:54 4260 um YOXUY OS-OL 194 12/11/97 12140 0:01x06 5261 IavYoRwY OS-OL 191 0799972000 12/n/97 x2:44 0:OlrOb 5261 mmRNY OS-OL 191 0799972000 12/11/97 12847 o:oot49 4260 WBI Ton N-f OS-OL 194 12111197 12:49 0:01:00 5261 NwToxNY OS-OL l2/11197 12:51 01Olr06 4260 UmYonNY OS-OL &.Z>"" 12/11/97 12:56 o:osz42 4260 WPTTORNY OS-OL 12/11/97 13104 oioS:54 4260 i2/11/97 13106 0:00~30 5262 191 0799972SOO :2/11/97 13r07 0101r06 5262 iiJg-g 191 07999?2900 12/11/97 13:36 0x00:36 4260 194 12/11/97 13:38 0:00:30 4260 12/11/97 14-22 OlOOI4S 4260 12/11/97 14:24 Qr00:36 4260 12/11/97 lb:25 0104106 4260 12/11/97 14:29 OrOlr06 4260 :2/:1/97 14:33 0:03:06 4260 12111197 15:06 0:01:12 5262 iZi11107 15:5i 0:00:41 5261 0799972800 12/11/5~ 15:51 0:03:S4 4260 :2/11:97 16:14 0x01:24 5261 X.,'Xi/97 16:32 0100142 5261 1211119‘ 16:34 0:02:00 5261 :2/:'.,97 16:36 0:00144 5261 VASZ-1 LaaL 141 12!1?/97 16:38 0:\3:30 5262 WAS2 S VA LGCAL 141 12111197 l-l:21 0:00:30 5261 YASZ-1 LOCAL 141 12/11/97 17:24 0:01:36 5261 NEW Yen NY OS-OL 191 0799972100 1111;/9: OS:19 0:01:06 1262 OXON RI MD LOUL 141 ;2/i:g97 10:11 0:00:42 5262 UASZ-I LOCAL 141 12/:2/57 10:14 O:Oo:4S 5262 Nzw YOR NY OS-OL 191 0799990259 :2:r2/97 10:55 0:03:30 5262 UASZ-x mChL 141 :2/12/97 11:oe 0x00:36 5262 IUIVIN m OS-OL 196 0799972000 :2/12/97 11:OS 0:01:s4 5262 CINCINH m OS-OL -191 0799972900 ::/12’9- 13:ot 0:02-24 5262 CWITOL MD InCAL 141 12/1P19: 12:lS 0:01:06 5262 vhsz-1 ucu 141 :2/:2/97 12:17 0:03:00 5262 IPCL 141 12/::/97 12:22 0:01:18 5262 PlGLESX VA LCCAL 141 12/12/S? 12:29 0:00:30 5262 mGl.ESl VA - 141 12/1:/S? 12:46 0:05:30 5262 AUGUSIA GA OS-OL 191 0799990259 12/12/97 12:56 4:00:36 5262 NEW YOR NY OS-OL 191 0799972600 121i2197 12:s9 0:00:42 5262 KKLLSI n LotAL 141 :2/12/97 13:2e 0:01:00 5262 VAX-1 Lou; 141 12/:2/97 15:31 0:00:36 5262 Vhsf 8 VA mChL 141 1:/;2/97 16:41 0:15:00 5262 hY OS-OL 19: 0799972SOO i2/'5/9~ on:17 0:OS:ll 4260 NN YORNY OS-OL 194 12115197 OS;32 0:06:06 4260 NLY YOR NY OS-OL 194 12/15/S? 00:41 0:01:00 4260 YASZ-1 LKAL 141 12/15/S: OS:55 0:04:36 4260 COLIMBL'x11- OS-OL 194 ?2/15/97 OS:58 0:09:00 5261 9mmu.Y CA OS-01 191 0799972100 12/15/97 09:17 0:02:24 4260 mst-1 ucu. 141 12/15/97 OS:21 0:03:54 4260 UASZ-1 Lccu 141 :2115/S? OS:5i 0:00:3D 4505 VASZ-1 12115/97 OS:52 0:03:00 4260 m Yen WY OS-01 194 12/'.5/9? 09:53 0:02:42 4505 UAJZ-1 Lo(u 141 12/:5/5- 09:55 0:02:36 4260 Nav YOR NY OS-OL 194 01/02/99 14135 0100124 4265 LOCAL 14: OlfO2/9s 14136 0;OOt¶O 4260 r4xu YORVY OS-OL 194 OlfO2/98 14:J9 0103roo 5261 yxsz-? 141 OlfO2/98 14143 otoIIs4 4260 U&X-1 Ez 141 01f02f90 14149 0rOO:M 4260 UASZ-1 141 OlfO2fSE 14x62 Ot00~42 4260 llIwsD MD 141 01102f91 lS$Ol oIoo:18 4260 141 01102/*9 15:07 01OO:f6 5261 141 OlfO2/91 16rOS o:OO:O6 3261 141 0lfOH95 16105 0100112 3261 141 OllO2f95 16126 OIOOSW 4260 vmz-1 141 01102/99 X6:33 O:lSr% 4260 BxJsTmTx 194 OlfO2fS5 16x44 01oo:lz 5261 uhsze YA 141 OlfO2/91 16149 OlO&O6 426C YIYYORNY 194 OlfO2/99 f6:53 O:lOzOO 4260 a!u-1 IL 194 01102195 17~06 QIoO106 5261 .mJP-1 141 01f02f98 17107 OtOOIo6 3261 vuz-1 141 OlfO2/9( 17:ll 0100142 4260 -2-1 141 olfo2f9a 17cll O&O:24 4260 T.uz-1 141 OlfOZf99 17112 0:00:19 4260 141 01102/95 17:x2 WOO:24 426O UAsza VA 141 olfo2fse f?r1S o:OO:1* 4260 141 OlfO2f99 17rlS OlOOIO6 4260 141 01/02/*9 17x15 OIOOI3O 4260 uuz-1 141 01/02198 17117 01OO:'LB 5561 wz I VA LDthL 141 OlfOSf98 D9106 otoor4a UA!X-1 uz%L 141 01105199 09:37 0:01:36 zz WI-1 l.0za.L141 OlfOSf98 OS:42 Orl61O6 S2Q wxiz 19 va UXAL 141 OlfO5f98 09:46 ocoo:O6 uas29 VA Lou. 141 OlfO5/95 09149 0101:15 z: vu2 9 n IKal 141 01fQ5/98 09:so 0111142 5261 WasI 8 VA LDU 141 01105/99 lOI06 0I00!30 3262 PlCLLSf VA m 141 01/05/99 10:10 0x04~42 6262 YLY YOR NY OS-OL 191 0799912100 OlfOSf98 10:x2 0:00:36 S2Q RCL 141 01/05/98 10:15 O:OOr54 6262 My YOultY OS-o: 191 0799972600 OlfO5f98 10~29 0:OO:H 5261 mw YOR NY OS-OL 191 0799972500 OlfO5198 lO:41 0:01100 4260 w&St-1 LOc&L 141 01fO5198 10143 0102rO6 4260 -2-1 mz%L 141 OlfO5198 10:54 0:01:42 4260 MRDSD WD UXAL 141 Dlf05198 lo:56 0103rO6 4260 lmsz-1 Locu. 141 OlfOSf9E 11:11 OlOJIW 426C WI-1 Lccu. 141 01105198 11:15 0100142 4260 lfwr-1 Iow 141 01105198 11:16 o:O6:19 4260 llGyYOR NY 09-o!. 194 OlfO5/98 11:23 0:00:36 5262 urxru.Y CA OS-OL 191 0799972500 01fOSf95 11:24 0:03:30 426G WI-1 LKAL 141 olfosf9e 11:28 OrOll42 4260 vviz-1 UK&L 141 01105f98 11:32 0:01100 4260 yzv YOR WY OS-OL 194 OlfOSf98 11:36 0r02100 3262 ay Yen NY 0%OL 191 0799972500 01105f98 11:38 o:oo:s4 4260 m-1 IL OS-OL 194 OIfOLf9B 11:39 OrQ1rOO 5262 VASI-1 WCAL 141 OifOSf96 11:53 0:01100 5262 m YOR NY OS-OL 191 0799972100 01/03/98 12:09 o~oot30 5261 yAli7.5 YA mcu 141 OlfO5f98 12:10 Or01:19 5261 VASZ e VA l&c&L 141 01105f98 12~43 oio3r00 5261 lmsf-1 XCAL 141! Olfa5f96 12:46 OrO0:36 5261 v&32-1 LOCAL 141 01105198 12:se Ot01r24 3262 VASZ-1 LOZL 143 OlfOSf9S 13:5u D100806 3262 VA Loc*L 111 DlfOSf98 13:se 0:00106 5262 VA LOCAL 141 01105191 14:15 0x00:36 5262 YA l#xL 141 OlfO5f98 14:25 or02112 5262 MN YORWY Of-02 191 0199972900 01105198 1,:29 -0:02:19 5262 IRY YOR KY OS-OL 191 07999728c~o Olf05/91 14:35 0100106 326i UASZ-1 LUZAL 141 01105/90 15:19 0:00:49 5262 VhSZ-1 ZecAz 141 ClfCsf98 15~23 0:00:36 5262 5Pca 141 03f05190 15:39 0~00:30 526‘1 OZR Ass VY SPCL 141 01.‘05/98 lfrr40 0:00:54 5262 WzymnNY OS-OL 191 0799972100 ClfDsfVs 15:46 0:00:24 5261 MSL-1 UJui 141 01/05/98 15147 0:00:30 5261 v-2-1 '- 141 01105198 16:O‘ 0:05142 5262 OlfO5/98 17121 0100:06 526i OlfOSf98 l-l:22 0100149 5262 OlfOSf9~ 17:51 0100:4a 3261 OlfO5f98 15:os 0:00:30 5261 3617

01/30/96 -FRI -. 1l:OZ.-_ --. FAX- 2146914335-. PAGEYART INC - -- -. - JAb!- 2% 98 ED 13 : 39 Retail Sales FAX NO. 6196549C30

2 w2 t 1,220 01-13-m oo:w OI-01-70 lamlrs 111 19 LErd ULC *f. UT

11 2 w2 c oil:,, Ol-13-w oo:oa 01-01-m 1531175 2s GO ZI‘L ram a1w1ffi TIIIL AFlEIIY(PY. -KAY

13 2 w2 C 03ro6 01-13-911 m:oo or-Ol-m 145117s 31 16 LEA&E ULI. cc*.

13 2 w2 C 14~22 01-124 m:oo oi-01-m lb31175 12 36 ‘1CAaE CALL MEIss* Al-

13 2 w2 C on:18 01.12-Qll 0O:M 01-01-m 15ll7s V 61 'L_ ULL r#Aw. cA.TC. AT -

13 2w2 C on:23 Ol-to-m m;ao Ol.Ol-To 1831175 14 92 *m,'l ,I DAa'S BIITlRAY IXU'T IT? PLEASE CALL ME AS Rx*I As 1aJ CAN. Lov z. lllKE -

IS 2 w2 C 13:&b bl-em46 ~:a 01-01-m liU¶l7!5 PLEASE CUL *o(.

13 C w:22 ot-oil-w oo:ao 01-01-70 llul17s ,a# DID CALLED2 PpzluTuACEYI.

13 2 C 16:27 01-07-911 0O:W 01-01-70 8831175 PLEASE ULL )Ty ATw2n

13 2 w2 C au:% Ill-UT-ma m:on Ol-01-70 163117S PLEASE CALL *DlA SJTPWEY Al-

13 2 w2 c l7:eo Ol-06-w 0o:w 0141-70 lcl31175 “A% ,u I)pDTYEP ULL Ilt AT v, lLZHtT*.

13 2 992 C 12:14 01-w-w aO;oo 01-01-70 1631173 FWL URTER Ar w I MILL SEE TW TollDLKy allUG Al 1O:OO i” “T OFflCE.

3 2 w2 C a¶:32 01-06-96 0o:oo 01-01-70 la3117S PLcASf CALL fRUS CARTER iBi_

13 2 w2 C 07;LO 01-06-W 0O:M 0141-70 183117S eLE*sE Cot6 wmf. LICnEAL IS up.

G 2 wi c Of:11 01-06-98 oo:no 01-01-m 1531175 PLEASE CALL 101

13 2 992 C 08:CP Ol-0343 0a:w 01-01-70 1~31175 ALEX IS xenc. PLEASE CALLi_

13 2W2 C ov:26 oi-az-p(I m:m oc-01-m i83il73 will V A)lD CALL “E 1 YIYT TO LEAVE Smy ANO I NI “AIllIE CC. TWR CALL

13 2 w2 C ca:sa Ol-02-w Oo:oo 01-01-m la31173 32 4.2 ,'"AYI‘L. U‘L It: "ME" "INGET ACMAUCE.

13 2 w2 C 13:c2 01-01-90 oo:oo ot-01-m la3%17S 27 119 GIVE “E A CALL. YITW IYFO RE; FLIGNl AT IICM OR LEAVE A *5G Oy PAGEI.

13 2 c 12~00 12-30-97 m:m 01-01-m Ml31175 6 I? CALL LSYLEY D

1s 2 w2 c-v7 OO:oo ill-01-m la31175 29 C6 FRANKCARTER RENllED I(up CALL,

13 2 w2 C 0741 12-26-97 M:OO 01-01-70 l63117S 22 21 I Y( AYUE. CLLL nE..

13 2 w2 C 07:2Q 12-27-97 0O:OO 01-01-70 1631175 33 96 MULE ami: ,O LEAVE *olEv I” T”L LOEBT FOP ME OECAUSE I RAVE NO CASK FO(I A ua. PROEABLY so. WlKE

13 2 092 C 13:17 12-Z&-P7 0o:w Ol-01-70 18311n - -*SE ULL m.

13 2 992 C W:55 12-23-97 m:OO 01-01-70 lCJl175 PLEAS5 CALL wI1. !Z&LLS MADE BY-ON JQRDM

No, Call Erom Call to Lengkh of call

1 12/22/97 04:59 PM Vernon Jordan's office, White House operator, 2:12 202-456-1414

2 12/22/97 jO5:03 PM Vernon Jordan's office,

3 12/22/97 OS:04 PM Vernon Jordan's office, _