Ofhcial Journal of the European Communities

Annex Ofhcial Journal of the European Communities

No 1ÿ lanuary 1973

Enelish edition Debates of the European Parliament

1972-1973 its Session Report of Proceedings ,!t\ :l il tq from 16 - 19 January 1973 rl.,i, '

Europe House, Strasbourg

Contents Siaing of Tuesday tG lawary 1973 ceremonial sitting: resumption of the session verification of credentials, p. 1 Enlargement of the European communities, p.- 2 Decision on the memËership- of the Bureau and of the committees, p. 15 Enlargement- of the Bureau of thè Eqropean Parliamenr, p. 15 Memberihip of- the comminees, p. 15 Documents submined, p. L6 Texts of- agreemenrs received from the Counlil, p.- lZ Autho- risation to draw - reports, p. - up 17 - Reference to committees, p. 77 - Restriction of sp-eaking time, p. 18 - Decision on,rugenr procedure, p. 18 - Order of business, p. 18 - statement by President of the council on thè EEC-cvprus Association agreement, p. ?0 - Sqqtgment by rhe President of the Council oï the budget of the communities for 1ÿ73, p.21 - sratement by the commission on the ecoiomic situation in the Community, p. 25 - Agenda ior the next sitting, p. 42.

Sitting of Wednesday 17 January 1973 . Adoption of the minutes,,p. 4 Change in the agenda, --p, 48 Letter from Mr Barre, former vice-Presidènt of- the co-mmission,-p. 4ti Documents- received, p. 48 - A statement by the Commission on the eèonomic situation in the Com- *rlr-rity (continued), p. 49 - Establishment of community network for storage of radio-active lvaste, p. 59 - oral question No 79/72 wilh debate: Franco-p:olish Economic cooperation Agreement, p.67 - Resignation of a Member of the Euro- pean Parliament, p. 73 - Involvemènt of Parliament in conclusion of trade agreements with non-Member Statesr_ p. 74 - Decision on a common approach tô air transpoft, p.78 - Change in the agenda, p.91 - Texts of agreements received from the Council, p. 92 - Agenda-of the-next sitting, p. 92.-

(Continued overleaf) NOTE TO READER

Appearing at the same time as the English edition are editions in the five other official languageJ of the Communities: Danish, German, French, Italian and Dutch. The f,nÈlisti edirion contains the original texts of the interventions in English and an English translation of those made in other languages. In these cases there are, after the name of the speaker, the following letter§, in brackets, to indicate the language spoken: (DK) foi Danish, (D) for German, (F) for French, (1) for Italian and (N) for Dutch. The original texts of these interventions appear in the edition published in the language spoken.

(Continued) Sitting of Thursday 18 January 1973 .. 93 Approval of the minutes, p. 94 - Submission of a proposal, p. 94 - Statement bÿ ihe Presid ent, p. 94 - Regulation on legislation for settlement of labour disputes, p. 95 - Inclusion of a new article in Rules of Procedure, p,98 - Order of business, p. 111 - Oral question No.26/72 with debate: Build-up and use of surplus butter, p. 1,L2 - Regulation on common organisation of the market in sugar, p. 129 - Regulation on import arrangements for beef and veal, p. 129 - Regulation on Community tariff quota for frozen beef and veal, p. 129 - Regulation on a system of premiums for promotion of beef and veal production, p. L30 - Change in the agenda, p. 143 - Regulation on a system of premiums to promote beef and veal pioduaiôn (continued), p. 743 - Directive on cocoa and chocolate products, p. 149 - Reference to committee, p.'1,54 - Agenda for the next sitting, p. L54

Sitting of Friday 19 January 1973 ...... 156 Approval of minutes, p. 1,57 - Tabling of a motion and reference to committee, p. 757 - Tabling of a motion and decision on urgent procedure, p. 158 - Regu- Iation on financing assistance by the EAGGF (Guarantee Section), p. 158 - Third directive on turnover taxes and excise duties in passenger travel, p. 163 - Regulations on wines originating in Spain, p. 172 - Regulation on Community tariff quota for certain eels, p. 172 - Regulation on definition of the customs territory of the, Community, p. 172 - Decision on action to protect Community livestock against foot-and-mouth disease, p. 172 - Regulations on dried figs and raisins originating in Spain, p.775 - Regulation on production and marketing of citrus fruits, p. 175 - Regulation on citrus fruit imports from the Arab Republic of Egypt, p. 175 - Regulation on imports of rice from the Arab Republic of Egypt, p. 175 - Regulation on certain fishery products, p. 175 - Regulation on measures to be mken in agriculture to reflect the monetary situation, p. 175 - Dates for the next part-session, p. 180 - Approval of the minutes, p. L80 - Adjournment of the session, p. 180.

The resolutions agreed to at sittings appear in the Official Journal of the Europedn Commwnities Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 19?3

SITTING OF Tt ESDAY, 16 IANUARY 1973

Contents

1. Ceremoni,al ntting: resumrytxon of the L3. Statement on the Associati,on Agree- session-Veri,ti,cati,on of cred,entials . . ment between the EEC and, Cgprus bg Mr Fagat, Prendent of the Counci.l ot 2. Enlargement of the European Com- the European Communi.ties. Mr Vre- mwnti,es: deling, Mr Fayat 20 Mr Ortoli, Presid,ent oJ the Commis- si.on of the European Cornmuniti,es, 14. Staternent bg the Presi.dent of the Mr Fagat, Presid,ent of the Council of ,Council on the bud,get of the Com- the European Communities, Mr Paul munities tor 1973. Dalsager for the Dani.sh Delegatî,on, Mr Yeats, tor the lrish Delegation, Mr îagat, Presilent of the Counæl ot Mr Kirk, for th.e Bntish Delegation .. the European Comrnuniti,es, Mr. Spé- nale, Chai,rman of the Committee for Deci,sions on the mernberchi,p of the Finance and, Budgets, Mr OftroA, rap- Bureau and. the Committees 15 porteur for the builget, Mr Fagat .. 2t

Enlargement of the Bureau of the 15. Statement bg the Commi,ssi,on on the European Parli.ament 15 economic si.tuati,on i,n the Communitg

5. Membership of the commi,ttees ...... 15 Mr Haferkamp, Vi,ce-Presid,ent of the Comtni.ssi,on of the European Com- 6. Docurnents wbmi,tted 16 muni,ti,es, Mr Bos, tor the Christi.an Democratit Group, Mr Vals, tor the Sociali.st Group, Lord, Glad,usgn, 7. Teæts of agreements recei,ued the tor from Liberal Alli,es Group, Sir Council L7 the anil Brandon Rh,gs-Willi,ams, for the Con- seruatitse Group, Mr Tnboulet for the Auth,orization to draw up reports .... L7 European Dernocratic Uni,on Group, Mrs lotti, Mr Breusis, Mr Liihr, rap- 9. Reference to committees . .. . t7 porteur Jor the Economi,c Affairs Com- mittee 25 10. Restriction oJ speakLng time 18 Motion on proceilure proceiluîe lL. Decr,non on urgent 18 Mr Habi,b-Deloncle, Mr Haterkamp ..

12. Order of busi,ness. Mr Lôhr, Mr Vrc- d,eling, Mr Kri,ed,qnann ... 18 L6. Agenda for the neæt ntting 42

IN THE CIIAIR: MR BEHRENDT L. Ceremonial sttti.ng Resumption of the §ession - Veri,tication Prestdent of cred.entials

(The sittlng was openeil at 71.20 a.m.) President. I declare resumed the session of the European- Parliament adjourned on 12th President. - The sitting is opened. December 1972. Debates of the European Parliament

President

As you know, this morning's sitting is a cere- designation by the Parliaments of the Member monial one which, in accordance udth the States has just been announced. importance of the occasion is devoted to the accordance with Rule 3 (1) of the Ru1es of enlargement of the European Communities. In Procedure the Bureau has checked that these I therefore propose to you that the fixing of nominations comply with the provisions of the our agenda for this week be dealt with at three Treaties. o'clock this afternoon. I therefore propose that Parliament should We now come to the verification of the cre- recognize these credentials as valid. dentials of the delegates from the new Member States. Are there any objections ? By letter of 16 November 1972 the President of It is so resolved. , the Danish Parliament informed me that, on 16 November 1972, the Danish Parliament had I congratulate our new colleagues and assure designated the following as its delegates to the them that they are very welcome here. European Parliament:-Mr Knud Bro, Mr Finn (Applause) Christensen, Mr PouI Dalsager, Mr Per Dich, Mr Per Federspiel, Mr Ove Guldberg, Mr Erhard Jakobsen, Mrs Marichen Nielsen, Mr Helveg Petersen, Mr Knud Thomson 2. Enlargenr,ent of th,e European Communi.ti,es By letter of 20 December 1972 the President of the Irish Parliament iaformed me that on President. Distinguished guests, Fellow- 14 December L972 the Irish Parliament had members of the European Parüament, Ladies designated the following as its delegates to the and Gentlemen, European Parliament:- Now that we have verified the credentials of the Mr Conor Cruise-O'Brien, Mr Michael Herbert, Representatives from the Parliaments of Ire- Mr Michael Hilliard, Mr Justin Keating, Mr land, Denmark and the United Kingdom, the Thomas Nolan, Mr Richie Ryan, Sir Anthony European Parliament has entered a new phase Esmonde. of its existence. It has ceased to be the Par1ia- The President of the Irish Senate wrote to me ment of the Six and become the Parliament of on 2l December 1972 stating that on 20 Decem- the enlarged Community of nine Member States' ber 1972 the Irish Senate had designated the occasion which deserves to following as its delegates to the European Par- This is a significant liament:- be marked with due solemnity. This House began its work here on 10 September 1952 as the Com- Mr Charles McDonald, Mr Farrell McElgunn, mon Assembly of the first European Community, Mr Michael Yeats. the CoaI and Steel Community. The Assembly then numbered only 78 Representatives who, By letter of 3 January 1973 f was informed with high ideals, worked rliligently under Pres- that the Houses of Parliament of the United idents of outstanding ability for the benefit of Kingdom had on designation agreed the of their that CommunitSr. delegates to the European Parliament as follows:- It was primarily through their efforts that the absolute need for parüamentary cooperation from the House of Lords : was clear§ recognized from the outset. It was The Earl of Bessborough, Lord Brecon, Baroness once again here, in March 1958, that our Assem- Elles, Lord Gladwin, The Earl of Mansfield, bly became the European Parliament. It was Lord O'Hagan, Lord Reay, Lord St. Oswald President Furler, who is here among us today, who was in the chair at the final sitting of the from the House of Commons : Common Assembly and who, in March 1960 was Sir Tufton Beamish, Mr John Brewis, Sir re-elected President of the European Parliament Douglas Dodds-Parker, Mr James Hill, Mr John in succession to the first President of this llouse, Hill, Mr Russell Johnston, Mr Peter Kirk, Mr Robert Schumann, the torch-bearer of the Euro- Tom Normanton, Sir John Peel, Mr Rafton pean Communities. We all oure a deep debt of Pounder, Sir Brandon Rhys-Williams, Mr James gratitude to his forcefulness and clear-sighted Scott-Hopkins, Sir Derek Walker-Smith. views on the role of the European Parliament. At its sitting on 10 January 1973 the Bureau 'We are also deeply indebted to him for his con- verified the credentials of these members of the tinued service as a member of the European Danish, Irish and British delegations, whose Parliament's Bureau for many years. In my Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 1973

President capacity as Vice-President, and more recently culture. Once again a vrarm welcome to our as President, I have always set great store by Danish colleagues. his reasoned advice and political wisdom. Please now to the largest country to have joined accept my warm thanks for all your work, Mr. I come Furler. Our good wishes go with you on your the Community; in recent decades Britain has gradually moved the continent and shed retirement from active political life. closer to some of its worldwide obligations. In the past 500 years, Britain has left so great a mark on The European Parliament of the Six had 142 people find difficult to Members: 41 new Members have now joined history that many still it realize that its citizens have now joined us in the us. May I begin by welcoming the ten represen- Community. We have all awaited this day with tatives of the Irish Parliament to our House. keen anticipation, as indeed have the British With the accession of that green isle, whose people. scenic beauty I recently discovered in the com- As the assembly of representatives of the people, pany of our Vice-President, Mr. Bersani, the the European Parliament must, I feel, pause for Community has extended its boundaries to the a moment to consider the many difficulties western tip of Europe. W'e are also reminded of which had to be overcome before accession could Irish the fact that in the past century many become a reality. A feeling of optimism and citizens have been forced by economic necessity even euphoria spread among us when the Euro- jobs on the to emigrate, generally to seek new pean Parliament first heard in 1961 of these greatly the far side of the Atlantic. I hope that three new countries' desire to join. Our House economic strength and dynamism of the Com- followed the sixteen months long negotiations munity wilt put an end to this phenomenon. \üe with close attention. Our Rapporteur at that regional policy with must lay down a common time on Britain's accession was Mr. Biesheuvel, effective instruments to eliminate regional dis- now Prime Minister of the Netherlands. In parities. January 1963 a severe frost settled on the negotiations and indeed on our whole Community. And now a heartfelt welcome to our 10 Danish pushed Members. The accession of Denmark has Since then we have experienced and surmounted back the Community's northern boundary, as many a crisis. \Me in the European Parliament we in the old Community always considered learnt of the renewed applications in 1967 with necessary. Iile fully realize that Sweden, like much greater scepticism but called at once for Switzerland and Austri,a, could not become a a successful outcome. It was not until December full member of the Community because of its 1969 that the Hague summit conference opened neutral status. This was a political decision the way to accession which then gradually which we respect. But the negative outcome of became a reality. the Norwegian referendum is all the more pain- ful to us. This is not the time for me to outline all the expectations and hopes which we set in Britain's As democrats and parliamentarians we always entry. Let me simply express me great joy and fully respect any decision of the sovereign judge, satisfaction that after so many difficulties and the people, even if the reasons for and conse- hesitations, the accession has at long last taken quences of that decision do not meet with our place. I extend a hearty welcome to our British approval. It was therefore all the more signifi- Members. cant to us when the Danish people reached a different verdict a few days later. The enlargement amounts to far more than a geographical extension of the Community in I am sure that the Danish electors' overwhelm- terms of population, economic potential and ing vote in favour of the European Communitlr share of world trade. The political dimension is was due in no small measure to the Scandina- of paramount importance l Western Europe is vians' particularly well-developed seruie of moving towards unification and taking shape. shared responsibility. In this connection it has Britain with its great historical tradition is no been said that Denmark can now act as a bridge- longer an outsider. The countries which still head, facilitating links between the other Scan- remain outside have chosen to do so, as in the dinavian countries and the Community. People case of the three neutral states, or lack the in Norway, Sweden and certainly in Finland democratic structure without which full mem- too will now keep a close watch on Denmark's bership is neither possible nor desirable. experience in the Common Market. At the same time, there can be no doubt that we in the Com- Allow me to stress in this connection the positive munity can learn a great deal from Denmark; contribution made by the Paris summit con- one important factor will be the Danish example ference when it expressly underlined the of a modern, well-organized and successful agri- democratic nature of our Community in its inter- Debates of the European Parliament

Prestalent pretation of the rather inexpücit treaty text. The May I therefore thank the Presidents of the EEC accession of the three new Member States has parliaments once again for attending our con- further strengthened this democratic character. ference and today's solemn inaugural sitting of the enlarged European Parliament. Anyone who refers to parliamentary government We specifically wanted this conference of the automatically has in his mind's eye a picture of Presidents of the EEC Parliaments and today's \Mestminster, thinks of the venerable buildings inaugural session of the enlarged Parliament to of the mother of parliaments and remembeis be held in Strasbourg. Here it was that the Com- the richly varied history of the House of Com- mon Assembly of the European CoaI and Steel mons. \ühat a heroic struggle the British people Community began its work and here too the led from the 13th century onwards to wrest first European Parliament regularly meets. In 1949 one and then another right from the crown. And Strasbourg was chosen as the seat of the Council how important their model of parliamentary of Europe, whose Secretary General f welcome democracy has become to so many peoples among us today, because this great European throughout the world. For this $te olve a debt of city gave the clearest and at the same time most pro- gratitude to Britain. We all know that the terrifying evidence of the political divisions in gress of technology, communications and the Europe. With European integration, a successful economy has changed the face of our countries attempt has now at last been made to close such in a manner which calls for new checks and political gulfs. balances between parliaments and governments. The European Parliament itself now has the Crises and hostilities between Member States unique opportunity, but also the great problem, cannot and must not occur again. They would of unitilg representatives from fifteen parlia- spell the end of Europe. On the contrary we mentary assemblies in nine countries with dif- must look to the future and unite this Europe ferent traditions. of ours into a single political entity, while respecting üstinctive national features. The I am, however, convinced that we are all inspired troubled political horizon, the interpenetration by a real desire to learn from one another and of our markets, technological progress and our fight side by side to win greater powers for this common cultural heritage compel us to take this European Parliament of ours. path if we are to ensure a future of freedom, democracy and prosperity for our children and It therefore gives me particular satisfaction that grandchildren. the Presidents of these fifteen parüamentary However, I fully realize that there have been assemblies accepted my invitation to a conference opponents to accession in Norway and in the in Strasbourg. Yesterdaÿ, in a spirit of coopera- three new Member States. Our own insight into tion and mutual understanding, we held a fruit- the Community's historical necessity have not ful discussion on ways of improving cooperation taken such deep root there. It is certainly regret- between the parliaments of Member States and table, but at the same time comforting, that the the European Parliament. opponents of accession have sometimes put forward the argument of poütical interference Progress towards European integration makes by outsiders. In the old Communit5r we have it essential to establish closer contacts between largely overcome this phase of mutual mistrust parliaments; here the European Parliament has political opposition. Young people in our major role to play. Through its specialized and a no longer react to such arguments. nature, this House has the vital task of ensuring countries a constant exchange of information and docu- It will be the European Community's task to mentation. The dual mandate of our Members progressively break down this reticence in the calls for a special degree of forbearance from new Member States. As Members of the Euro- their colleagues in the Member States' parlia- pean Parliament it is our duty to see that our ments. At our conference we felt it particularly work has an impact on public opinion and sows necessary for the parliamentary committees to the seed of mutual trust. establish contacts with each other and coordinate their consultations on matters of especial The task of instilling confidence likewise falls interest. I particularly appreciate the fact that to the other institutions whose character has also the Presidents of the filteen parliamentary been changed by the enlargement. assemblies of our Member States have honoured our ceremonial session by their presence. In this May I, at this juncture, warmly welcome the new way they have conJirmed their special ties with Commission of the European Communities under the European Parliament and stressed the great its President, Mr. Ortoli. I am sure that it will 'political importance they attach to the enlarge- devote great energy to its task of leading the ment. new Member States on as quickly as possible to Sitting of Tlresday, 16 JanualT 1g?g I

President

the level of integration reached in the old Com- we are alnrays able to aet effectively at inter- munity. fn addition to this vital task of adapta- national level, Even thougtr there axe a good tion, whieh will surely raise many problems, many national politicians urho-for a .variety of the pattern for the future must be laid down reasonFruould prefer to return to past methsds non/. The Faris summit conference in particular and prooedures, I am sure I speak for the urhoLe defined a number of aims for which specific and European Parliament urhen I say that wB shall very short time limits weri set. I am thinking continue resolutely on the path we have chosen, of the completion of economic and monetary namely that of integration and not merely of union, the creation of a regional poliey, the eooperation. No one has yet produced a coo- irnplementation of a eommon social policy and vincing alternative. The enlargement of the many other tasks besides. Communiry and the hopes now'puur*ed on it hy 250 million citizens 'are reason enough for the I am convinced that the Community's standihg European Parliarnent to pursue'r its work the urortrd among its ci.tizens and the rest of resonutel5i . will grow enormously if we ean provide e:ridence i -of our ability to aet raptfly and constructively. There is only one goal for the free, democratic This will depend primaritry on the courage and western wortrd: . a united Eurbpe. There is no imagination shown by the Comrrrission. The sur- alternative! prisingly quick ,allocation of portfolios to the (Applause) 13 Cornrrrissioners is a promising start. -taken And now to the Council. Decisions witl be President. ;- I call'Mr Ortoli, President of the in future by nine Ministers instead of six. I Commission of the European Connmffities,' warmly welcortre the Presidertt-i.n-Office of the Counciln lVIr FayaI who is an old acquaintance Mr Ortoli, Presi d,ent of the Commtssi,on o!,the and friend of our Parliament. Here too I venture Europteafi, Communitie.s.{F) , Mr Preiident, to hope that a climate of trust will enable the Ladies and Gentlemen, Council to solve the many and difficult problems great now facing it. Unlike the Commissi.on and Euro- I am particularly consciouft of the hsnour pean Parliament, the Corrncil must never allow whieh falls to me today of presenting the new itself to forget that it is the zuprerne decision- Commission to you making body. This great responsibility is A great honour.particularly because your House,' enshrined in the Treaty but the Council could which now ineludes the representatives of nine nevertheless deeide to progressively transfer Europe€u peoples, has received from the Treaties sonne areas of its responsibility to the European establishing the Community the eminent respon- Parliament. Up to now a readiness to do so tr,as sibility of synrbolizing the union of these,peopleF evineed the budgetary sector. The only been in and their partici,pation in the, developrnent of ,the Couneil. must therefore not be surpri.sed by Com,munifu edifice. Through you, it is the urhole eritieism of its decisions, on the grounds that body of the citizens of our countries that the they are taken too slontly and not alrnrays of the Commission greets with my voice. highest quality. A great honour also because our Colleg€, B new The negative outcome of the Norwegian referen- Iink in a chain which already stretehes back a fear intqgra- dum should be a lesson to us. A of long way in time, since it began with the first tion led up to this refusal and it arose beeause High Authority in 1952, that is to say urith {*_** of a lack .of information. The Cornrriuniry too Monnet, feels itself guided and encouraged hy is at fault'here. Its decisions are Bo teehnical in the splendid example of its foreruruIers. To nature that they have become incomprehensible succee-d-I speak of tfre singtre Commission:to the to the rnan in street. teams directed by statesmeir of the standing of The lack of democratic legitimation in the Com- Mr Malfatti (whom I greet here today) or of munity's legislative process is a far more sqrious President Rey, to Eay nothing of their eminent shortcoming. I am firmly eonvinced that demo- predecessors in the three forrner separate Execu,. cratic legitimation wiXl beeome a yardstick to tives, i,s a privilege o-f whose value, but also of judge the justification for the Comnrunity's whose perils, nlo are conscious. Along the trarl further existence. blazed by them it is in fact our task to adva+oe the Cornrnunity venture as effectively as they come to my closing remarks: the proce$t I now did in theiir tirne. i : of economic integration firas set in motion for eogent reasons in 1952. These reasons have in the You will understand, Mr President, Ladies and meantirne lost none of their significance. It is Gentlemen, that I also wish to pay special tri- still our task to fuse our economic and politieal bute to the three members of the last Commi,s- fsrces together as effectively as possible so that sion who are absent from the new one a$d who; Debates of thE.Eurotrlean Parliament

OrtoU eaeh in his own way, have left their mark on It will also be a question of elaborating and this Community which they tliave dong so much proposing the ne$r elements neeessary for the to shape. I refer to President Mansholt, a man pursuit of this vast enterprise. In this'field, as of strong convictions and of aEtion if ever there in others, our College fully intends to respect the was one, and urho takes his place, undisputed, cornrnitments entered upon by the earlier Com- among the Founding Fathers;li 'to Vice-President missions vis-i-vis both the 'Council and ,,this Barre, whose resolute aetioff, served by the House. f refer here to the proposals the Commis- penetrating intelligenee and the rare power of sion will submit for the strengthening of the persuasion you all know, has Hia the foundations budgetary powers of the European Parliametlt. of the economic and monetary union; and, In the second place, we will reserve a good part finaltry, to Mr Albert Copp6, tnrho has given his whole heart and mind to the responsi- of our efforts for the development of a vigorous f-nultiple soeial policy. bilities which, one after anotpher, have rested European on his shoulders during the last twenty years. Picking up from the substantiat progress achieved in the course of the last two or three predeeessors, from all I our years, and folX.owing the line plotted ,by the feel, is that the Commission,ii whieh people are I Paris Summit, the Commission will establish a so ready technocrqtic by to call a organ, is progr,arnme of concrete measures. In this matter, necessity and by nahrre an institution whose even more than in others, it counts on the sup- political role is a one. If therer,were any need to port of your Ifouse to help it to make our do so, it would be sufficient, inl order to convince society more humane q.nd just. oneself that this is the eflsep to measure the implications of the Commishion's powers of As regards the Comrnunity's external relations, initiative and to assess the s{gBrficance of the the Commission will also have plenty to do. On institutional dialogue which th$ Treaties organize the one hand, it will have to propose without between it and your House. delay an overall concept of the Community's li positions for the big multilateral negotiations to points These are trnro on whicftr I would like to open in GATT in the autumn. Here, enlightened elaborate some*hat, they cbneern two major for but firm defence of our interests will have to go directions of colleagues the activity in wh[eh my hand in hand with the $rill to pursue the liberali- and rnyself plan to engage. i: ' zation movement which began after the last war The Commission's power of; initiative. Our and which has greatly plofited all our eountries. College will have the obligatiog, even more than the occasion, to make wide use of this in the On the other hand, it will be neeessary this year years ahead. The mere adrnffitration of what to start hammering out the new association has already been actrievedll uflI not fail, policy which will succeed the Yaound6 Conven- in our enlarged Communiff-and fiom the very tion in the context of the prospects rezulting fact of this enlargement a$d all the eon- from the Accession Treaty. Negotiations will sequences expected from it-ito eall for some likewise have to be eondueted with the various effort of imagination and qome tenacity in eountries regarding whieh commitments have action. 'What then is to be sdd of the implica- been entered into, ir3. the first place the Mediter- tions, in this connection, of measuring up to the ranean countries. Moreover, in the light of the 'Con- rrany obligations which the ldecisions of the guidelines indieated at the Paris Sumr,rdt Paris Summit lay upon the Cornmunity insti.tu- ference, we shall have to push on with defining an overall view of the Comrnunity's relations tions, and first and foremost, th* Cornmission ? The extension, diversification and deepening of with the de\ieloping countries. the field of Community cornpditence defined by Finally-and this is not the least of tasks the Conferenee of the Heads of State or Govern- the arvaiting us-we shall have to earry out the ment open a vast future to Cornmission's the wishes Heads I the power of initiative. of of State or Government by l doing what is necessary to improvg the decision- You eertainly are not expectinfi me to describe making procedures and the operati.on of the our action programme today. iffris will be the institutions, and we shall have to implement the zubject of the declaration thatr I shall have the practical measures for strengthening the House's honour to make to you next motrrtfr. I will there- powers of eontrol and for improving the rela- fore limit myself to sketching opt the main lines tions of both Couneil and Commission with the of approach necessary for our {ction in the year House. which is beginning. il This means, os the saying goes, our CoLlege il that \[Ie will first of all have to p{rsue assiduously has "plenty on its plate." We are convinced that the aehievement of the prograrlrm" of economie we will be all the more able to act effectively and monetary union, and this lhr all its aspects. in all these fields since the Commission-this is Sitting of îuesday, 16 January 1973

Ortoü our second major concern-wilI have the advan- It is with a feeling of modesty-for the stake is tage of a more detailed and richer dialogue with an immense one-but also with full awareness your House. Much progress has already been of the part it will have to play, that the Com- made in this direction in the last few years' mission will submit its action prograrnme to you under the stimulus in particular of your prede- next month. In this way, the objectives and cessors and yourself, Mr President. May I be priorities in the achievement of which my col- allowed on this occasion, to pay tribute to the leagues and myself intend to engage our respon- democratic ideal which, inspiring each member sibility will be clearly known. Allow me to of your House, and being always strikingly express the wish, Mr President, Ladies and embodied in its successive Presidents, has made Gentlemen, that, in the execution of its heavy it possible, in the course of persevering progress, task, the Commission may always find in you to associate the representatives of our peoples the well-informed partners for a constructive ever more closely in the work of building the dialogue, the resolute providers of support which Community. it u/i]I often need, and, finally, the wise censors I of action which, f can assure you, will be that The Commission's wish is that this development of men of good will. should continue and, for its part, it intends to Ladies and Gentlemen, I should end my speech do its best to see that this shall be the case' From point was given to understand this very week it is beginning its efforts : hardly at this because I coupled the need for ten days after taking up its functions, it wishes that the tradition, with to be in a position, after defining its internal translation, is that one should not improüse least not say too much off- organization, to participate fully in your work in the House, or at nonetheless-and would ask the both in Committee and in plenary session. the-cuff. But I interpreters to excuse me-I should like to add or two. I will see to it personally, that as in the past, a word is possible, the and even more completely if this I want to tell you that the Commission is very presence its President is of the Commission and ambitious for Europe. When the Commission responsibility ensured at your work. The meets, feels the responsibility weighing down Mug- it invested by our College in Mr. Scarascia on as were something physical. I have of your it if it rrozza, who was formerly the Chairman to tell you that the Commission appreciates at Political Committee, to follow at my side its true value this responsibility of working for dialogue everything concerning the day-to-day a Europe which has not only grown in size but is equally clear between our two Institutions an which has also assumed exceptional responsi- illustration of our intentions. bility and weight and because it is the future of our old Continent that is at stake. In February, in keeping with the felicitous usage which has grown up in the last few years, the Lastly I want to tell you that we are pas- Commission, as I have had the occasion to indi- sionately committed. We know what our respon- cate, will present its programme for the current sibility is and we wish to exercise it to the full. year to you. At this session we will check with 'We know that Europe's responsibility is not only you how work is progressing and how far the to develop the right economic apparatus for a programme has advanced. Finally, the Commis- market of 250 million people. We also under- sion will keep you abreast of the action taken stand that our human and social responsibility to on the proposals voted by your House to amend our peoples is fundamental. W'e. know that in the draft directives and regulations laid before it. relation to the world at large, when it comes to peace and justice, is immense. This is why this If I have thought called upon to remind you of Continent, with its own, aspirations, can stand these arrangements, which may appear to be as something great which is, I repeat, not only mere matters of procedure and have already an economic entity but something which goes become regular practice, this was mainly to much further. mark the will of the new Commission to take over the commitments entered upon in this mat- Ladies and Gentlemen, I have no doubt that this ter by those which preceded it, but above all drive is courmon to us. No one achieves anything because I attach great importance to everything with programmes alone, although they.must be which concerns the organization of that con- respected. One achieves things because one tinuous and living dialogue which constitutes believes in them because one is driven forward the reality of democracy. Any improvement by a current that overwhelms you. All the which can be envisaged on this plane will, I can Commission feels the same. At the same time, assure you, be examined and accepted by the the political will of the States came out very Commission provided it is a move in the direc- clearly at the Summit. Lastly, there are your- tion of efficacy in action. selves. 'We know, Ladies and Gentlemen, what Debates of the European Parliament

Ortoll this Parliament is and who its members are and In the first place, the timetable of activities for why they want to build Europe. We shall try the current year is one of the most exacting ever to build it together. drawn up by the Community. There is very (Sustained, applause) little time available if it is proposed to bring about, by 1980, a major reform leading to the PresidenL ftank you, Mr Ortoli. I call Mr complete realization of economic and monetary Eayat, President- of the Council of the European union and, u'ithin the same period determine, Communities. by appropriate treaties, the structure of the European Union. Since the time for all these lYIr Fayat, Presi.d,ent of the Counci,L of the Euro- activities is limited, each agency of the Com- peon Communiti,es. - (N) Mr President, Mr munity institutions will have to submit itself to President of the Commission, Commissioners, a strict discipline. Presidents of the national Parliaments of the Member States, your Excellencies, Laües and In the second place, I wish to poiat out that Gentlemen. My first task which I am delighted the economic, social and political policies of the to carry out on behalf of the Council is to convey Community are becoming increasingly insepar- our congratulations to the enlarged Parliament, able. \ühen, in eight years time, our economic the British, Danish and members of to Irish and monetar5r policies have become cornmon Parliament. ones in all the most essential points, the transfer For nearly a quarter of a century, Strasbourg of responsibilities to the Community will be so has been for your three national Parliaments decisive, that the political centre of gravity will the European symbol of democracy and of the move to Europe. In the mearrtime our activities rights of man, as members from the national will gradually,become more politically "loaded". Parliaments of your three countries have been The Paris Summit Conference was therefore fully gathering here since the inception of the Council justified in instructing the existing agenci,es for of Europe. We have therefore already been our politica,l cooperation to remain in close contact united within the most fundamental framework with the institutions of the Community, so as to and that is our strength. But there is more. take into account, at the level of international We are jointly, in the continuous creation of a policy, the implications and consequences of united Europe, the successors to statesmen, to the Community policy now being elaborated. thousands of members of parliament, r'nion leaders, intellechrals, economiists and many It is also characteristic that the Paris Communi- que generations of young people who have, for 25 has set the same time limit for foundation years been building Europe wherever it was of the economic and monetary union as for the possible by suocessive activities which have foundation of the European Union. As the Com- awakened an evergrowing soüdarity. munity assumes ever more important tasks, it must consolidate its institutions and blend the Not only is the European Community being whole of the relationships between our countries enlarged by the iaclusion of three new members into a European Union, that is to say a supra- who are here in their rightful place, thus fulfill- national body with executive, legislative and ing a hope of its founders, but we are at the judicial poïrers. same time embarking on a creative period, on some aspects of which I would like to expand. Thirdly, taking the foregoing into account, the The Council of Ministers of the enlarged Com- Paris Summit Conference was right in entrust- munity held its first meeting yesterday. Mr ing the Community institutions with the execu- Harmel was unfortunately compelled through tion of all new tasks which supplement and go illness to leave the meeting and he has asked beyond the obligations stemming from the me to excuse him today. As deputy president of Treaties of Rome and Paris. the Couneil, I have not been able to see any difference between the former members and These are the "Community procedures" laid the new ones. All the delegations have behaved down by the Paris Summit Conference for the in a way that has allowed no room for doubt coordination of economic policy; these are that they belong to the same institutions. Community solutions which must be purzued in regard to regional problems. The Paris Com- With regard to its activities for the year 1973, munique does not cease to reiterate that it is the Council has before it a üst of qræstions sum- the Community institutions which will have the marized in a working document drawn at up programmes executing the request of Mr Harmel. task of drawing up or announced policies. What is remarkable is that In this connection I would like to mention four this also applies to the main purpose: the prep- areas of concern common to the Parliament, the aration, for a future zummit conference, of the Council and the Commission. report on tàe plan for European Union. Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 1973

Fayat

The aim is clear and is expressed in so many Towards what kind of society does our Com- words : as far as possible, reference will be munity wish to evolve in order to create a more made to all the clauses of the Treaties, including humane framework of living? article 235 of the EEC Treaty. To be sure, the message of the Congress of Europe The remains This leads to a fourth point in connection with at Hague still true: "The supreme conquest Europe is the dignity of the programme of activities awaiting us. of man and its true strength lies irt freedom." procedures Reference to Community means It is impossible to map the future of Europe urging on Parliament, the Commission, the without a sound knowledge of the options open Council and the Permanent Representatives to to our society, which must choose its pattern mutual collaboration which must be all the more of growth, choose the manner in which it will intensive since the subject matter is in all use it from among those ways which are respects so wide-ranging. available. Without this permanent concern for our evolution we would direct badly or not at The Council will ensiure, Mr President, that all a destiny which is henceforth shared. regular contact is maintained with you. From next Eebruary onwards, we will be here at your A second element in our thinking relates to the disposal for a meeting to discuss ways and parliamentary and democratic structure which means in which the decisions of the Paris Sum- is essential to the Community and each of its mit ConJerence should be carried out, in partic- component peoples. The Community institutions ular with regard to economic union, monetary of the European Union will have to be defined stability and the fight against inflation. but it is obvious that everywhere and at the (The speaker conti,nues his speech in îrench) same time in each state the structures of democracy are feeliag the effects of the great Mr President, Mr President of the Commission, changes now taking place and the need for Commissioners, Presidents of the national Par- adaptation. liaments, your Excellencies, Ladies and Gentle- Parliamentary democracy is a system common men. and fundamental to us all, but it is not enough simply to assert this in order to make it adjust The objectives are known, the time limits are to contemporary realities. Everywhere in Europe set, but what momentum will carry us across there is a two-fold need: in every state the need this interval of eight years, and impel us to for a redistribution of responsibilities is being overcome the üfficulties, internal as well as felt in the same way, it is both centrifugal and external which will inevitably arise? The driv- centripetal-towards Europe and towards the ing, d5mamic ideas to which Europe owes its regions and the provinees. How can we proceed awakening are still there, but their dramatic coherently towards this new division of authority content is blurred. and encourage, at every stage, the vocation of men who will serve the public disinterestedly IMhen Churchill spoke in Zurich in 1946, we had and competently. to restore our freedoms, protect ourselves against revolutions imposed from outside, Our nine states have seen to it that the new rebuild and develop our prosperi§r, give real Commission of the European Communities, like content to the aspirations for social progress, the previous ones should be of a very high reconcile our nations and ensure internal peace calibre. Every country has drawn from its in W'estern Europe. capital of statesmen and that is a good sign. How can \f,re ensure the existence in Europe of Now, thanks to the success of European integra- a model democracy which would bring to po!ÿer, tion, a tremendous network of common interests at every level the best citizens and the most is already giving indissoluble unity to our talented ones? Above all how attract to it, peoples. Would not so many reassuring pheno- everywhere and continuously the most promis- mena deprive Europe of the creative energies ing from among our young people? which have hitherto inspired its (re)construction? !ÿe cannot evade this question any more Mostly, it has often been said the main obstacle than we can ansu/er it in a few sentences. It Europe has to face is the temptation to national- must, however, be ever present in our minds. ist withdrawal of its states. But there is today May I make just three points on this subject. a danger just as great facing a Europe which has become by its enlargement and prosperity How are we going to embark on the study of the first commercial power and, in so many long term trends which will shape the future respects the first economic pov/er in the world. of Europeans? Henceforth, no Community decision however Debates of tàe European Parüament

Fayat innocuous will be a matter of inrlifference to Presideut. I thank you, Mr Fayat. I call or without repercussions on the rest of the Mr Dalsager- to speak on behalf of the Danish world. The more the scope of our common Members of the European Parliament. actions widens, the more each of these actions will be invested with a foreign policy content. Mr Dalsaget. (Dk). Mr President, Ladies In this connection, I am deeply convinced that and Gentlemen,- as spokesman- for the Danish ceaseless vigilance is essential: we must avoid members of the European Parliament, I would presenting to any nation the face of a Europe like to begin by expressing the Danish delega- which is selfish, tempted by a desire for hege- tion's warmest thanks for the friendly reception mony or just solely concerned udth itself, extended to us in Strasbourg. Irrespective of animated, as it were, by a kind of European our different outlooks, v/e are all anxious to nationalism. This very day, in Helsinki, our nine see how we can participate in the daily work nations are adopting a common, concerted here, looking forward with keen anticipation to attitude in regard to proposals for agendas and taking part in this work and interested in seeing plans for a mandate for negotiation for the how it will develop in the future. conference on European security and cooperation. It is a,practical and important symptom Denmark is, of course, not unfamiliar with the of the unity of our views, but it is also evidence problems involved in participation in inter- of our corrunon, collective interest in international organisations. Nor are u/e unaware that national peace and cooperation. Tomorrow the things do not always go as easily as ule might Community will also have the method for a have hoped, or as fast as we might have hoped, constructive and permanent and indispensable or as well as we might have hoped. This is true dialogue with the United States of America, of the work of the United Nations, for instance, Japan, Canada and other industrialized trading and of a great many other international organi- partners; tomorrow we will decide oD â coll- sations, but it is our experience that if there is mon programme for our contribution to the good will and trust in one's partners in the solution of universal problems, those of cur- collaboration, one will see results. This is rency, trade, but above all of the development something ure are quite familiar with from many of the countries of the Third V/orld. years of cooperation between the Scandinavian countries, including parliamentary cooperation What spirit will inspire us? in the Nordic Council. We have met with many difficulties in this cooperation, but with toler- May every common action of Europe draw ance and determination to achieve results u/e inspiration from the following thought of Mon- have come a long way in the creation of close tesquieu: collaboration between the Nordic countries in a large number of fields. "ff I knew something," he wrote "which particularly would be useful to my family but not to my This is something we wanted to country, I would try to forget it. If I knew mention on the day when Denmark is the one something which would be useful to my Nordic country to be sending politicians to work country but detrimental to Europe and to the in the European Parliament. Denmark's entry was preceded by human race, I would regard it as a crime." into the European Communities many years of negotiation and discussion. May our actions take inspiration from such We agreed vrith the original Common Market principles and may we constantly remiad our- countries that we would join the Communities selves that it is always necessary to seek to on 1 January 1973 and we are not unprepared. reconcile the interests of Europe with those of Nor are we unfamiliar with the problems which the rest of the world. are being debated in Parliament and which must be resolved in the best interests of questions, To put thus some to state in a few everyone. There are many big questions and short sentences these views among others, is, at grave problems here, some of which affect the the same time to show the necessity for a Communities and the countries they comprise constant dialogue between Parliament, the and some of which extend to the world outside. Beyond decisions Council and the Commission. We hope that the Communities will make an for actions, however great and promising they important contribution to the creation of good may appear, we will, I am convinced, see to it conditions for men to live in, in a peaceful that the destiny of Europe is shown in its true world. light and that the ütal impulse which will stimulate our will and justify our hopes, will The Danish decision to join the European Com- be released. munities was taken in Autumn t972, after a (Applause) long phase of negotiations and an information Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 1973 11

Dalsager

campaign. fn a referendum in which a very high building up a social structure in broad agree- proportion of the Danish population took part, ment between the political parties, we owe it about two-thirds of the votes were in favour of to the fact that we attach very great importance Denmark's entry, while the other third con- to the collaboration between Folketing and sidered that Denmark's interests could be best government. This cooperation is conducted with served without membership. Of the 5 parties in mutual consideration and respect, and we think the Danish Folketing, the 4 largest were in favour that our experience proves that such cooperation of joining, so it was in agreement with the succeeds best when parliament has considerable majority of the Folketing when the majority of po\Mers. the population voted in favour. I think I can say The European Parliament has not found its that there is general satisfaction in our country ultimate place in the work of the Community. that the decision in the referendum was so clear- Over the years there have been debates in the cut. Community as to the amount of power which In their work in the European Parliament the should be vested in the European Parliament, 10 Danish parliamentarians will join the polit- what its competence and authority should be ical groups in which they feel at home, although and in what way the Parliament should operate one of our colleagues, who did not wish to be in the cooperation and constructive work which associated with a particular group, will work are in progress. Through all the years of under different conditions-also because he negotiations on Denmark's inclusion in the Com- represents a party which is sceptical about munity, we in Denmark have been discussing Denmark's prospects in the European Commun- the advantages and disadvantages of this cooper- ity. It should be mentioned in this connection ation. It has been a prime theme of the political that other parties which took a positive attitude parties for several years. The newspapers have to the European Community in the Folketing given thorough coverage to this important topic. also contain opponents to the policy. For The population has taken a lively interest in instance, a small group of Social Democrats and the discussion and one of the things which has the radical Left in the Folketing voted against contributed to keeping the discussion alive- membership, and in the referendum there were and of course has also stimulated the objections people from the four parties which support and opposition to Denmark's entry into the membership who for one reason or another Community-has been just this question of the opposed the party line and voted against Den- inadequate parliamentary pou/ers of the Euro- mark's entry into the Communities. I think this pean Parliament. 'W'e on the Danish side want fact will figure in the Danish parliamentarians' to participate in the debates and discussions in contributions to the work here in the European which we know that the political groups in the Parliament. European Parliament are involved, because we feel that it is essential to ensure that the We fully realise that we represent a small Parliament finds its proper place in the work population by comparison with the background of cooperation and is on the right level in of other representatives at this Parliament as relation to the Council of Miaisters and the far as their home countries are concerned. \Me Commission. do not think that this in itself gives rise to any particular problems. Of course we do not speak W'e are used to having our work in the Danish with the same weight as the big countries. Well, Folketing followed with lively interest by the that's how it is in iaternational cooperation, Danish people. We very much hope that some- and it's a familiar situation for us. But we thing similar may gradually develop towards the believe our opinions will be heard and will play work in the European Parliament as well' In their part in the debates and in the decisions Denmark '$/e are also used to the interest of which are taken. the press in the Folketing and the politicians. The press have wide opportunities for following T?re countries participating in the work of the parliamentary work in every phase, and through European Parliament each have a particular their reports and leaders, and perhaps through background to their democracy. It has developed their criticism, they can contribute to the inter- under different historical conditions in the est in the work of the Folketing. This would various countries and is organised in accordance also be desirable for the future of the European with the individual traditions of those countries. Parliament, but it means that the potential of Denmark is no exception in this respect. Our the European Parliament must be enlarged. We parliament has a central role in political and Danish parliamentarians will do our best to social work. Our Folketing is a supervisory body stimulate iaterest in Denmark in the operation in relation to the government. It criticises the of the European Parliament. W'e will keep our government, but it is certainly true to say that colleagues in the picture about what is happen- if in many v/ays we have been successful in ing here, just as in other v/ays v/e must extend Debates of the European Parliament

Dalsaaer

the links between parliamentarians, both as far last year, when after a long and strongly-argued as the Political Groups are concerned and debate, they voted by an overwhelming majority among individuals. I also believe that we must of 83 per cent to join the EEC. pay attention to contact between the delegates To us in Ireland it is not really a question, as the in the national Parliaments and the European phrase goes, of our into Europe". Although Parliament. A profound understanding is neces- "going a island situated on tJre sary of what is going on everywhere in the we are small very fringe of Europe, $re have, all through our long history, 9 member countries. thought of ourselves as Europeans. Our scholars, I would also like to mention very briefly that our saints, brought civilisation and culhrre to we on the Danish side naturally want to see that many parts of the Continent our soldiers fought Danish interests are safeguarded as well as pos- in the armies of France and Spain. Ttre traces of sible, as we participate in the work of the the lrish are to be seen to this day in many parts European Parliament. It would be wrong not to of the Continent-in the names of places and emphasise that our participation in European of families and in ttre ancient libraries and cooperation arises first and foremost from the monasteries that our ancestors left behind them. expectation that it will produce the best results Our interest in Europe is in fact nothiag new. for our country in the future. Of course we also Eor many centuries we in lreland have felt the know that this sort of cooperation is first and closest ties of friendship and affection for the foremost for the benefit of the whole, which countries of the Continent of Europe. means that it must be useful to everyone. I think Tÿe have therefore, Mr. President, a profound this is the goal towards which we will all be admiration for the inspiration tàat prompted the striving. But on the Danish side we would also founders of the EEC, at a time when much of say that in our opinion the European Com- Europe was sti[ devastated by war, to determine munities have a duty and a mission in the that the nations Europe would never again outside world. The Communities cannot be suf- of engage in such a conflict. ficient unto themselves. It is our duty to contribute to justice and peace in the world and we We welcome, and'we are haBpy to play our part must not forget what wonderful opportunities 1r, ssalisin§, the ideals set out so clear§ in the we have of increasing our joint aid to the Preamble to the Treaty of Rome. We join in the developing countries. We must contribute in no pledge there given by the Six of their determina- small measure to the solution of the enornous tion "to lay the foundations of an ever closer problems of those countries. ïhis is a human union among the peoples of Europe" and in their obligation, but it is also a political obligation for affirmation also that the essential objective of the rich countries. their efforts would be "the constant improvement President, you once the of the living and working conditions of tàeir Mr I thank again for peoples". friendly reception accorded to us Danish parliamentarians in Strasbourg. W'e look forward to Even thougl, *'s psalise very well how much sharing in the work of the European Parliament still remains to be done, we have followed with and playing our part in the development of the admiration the progress that has been made whole Community and I hope that in future the during the past 15 years towards the achievemeut Danish members will be able to make a contri- of these aims. In particular the traditional gap bution to the work of the Community and that in living standards betewen those who live itl oui membership may be a source of profit and cities and those who work on the land is being pleasure not only to ourselves but to the Com- steadily narrowed as a result of the beneficial munity as a whole. Thank you, Mr President. operations of the Common Agricultural Policy. (Applause) A beginning, tÀough as yet only a beginning, has been made in the even more difficult and more President. Thank you, Mr Dalsager. I call important task of ending the great disparities Yeats - speak Mr to on behalf of the Irish Mem- that exist between the social and economic de- bers the European Parliament. of velopment of the different regions of !ÿestern Europe. There also rêrDains the task of fuIfilling Mr Yeats. (E) Mr President, this is a great and our cornmon obligations as members of the Com- moving occasion- for those of us who have come munity to help in the economic and social pro- from Ireland to join from today in the delibera- gress of the developing countries. When the final tions of this European Parliament. In the first history of our European Economic Çss6rrnif5r place, it is for us a tangible sign of the mem- comes some day to be written, the ultimate bership of our country in the European Economic sucses.s of the Community will be judged not on Community. Our presence at this meeting today the extent to which it has succeeded in making is a reflection of the decision made by our people the rich richer but on the extent to which it has Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 1973 13

Yeats brought a new hope, a new and a higher quality To me the realisation of Europe has always of üfe, to those who üve in the poorer regions been a necessit5r for my country, for Europe of Europe and of the underdeveloped countries and for the world. It is, therefore, a matter of overseas. great excitement that I should have been asked to lead the members of my party here in this \Mhile recognising, therefore, that much still Parliament and make what contribution I can remains to be done in the carrying out of the to the great work which we have to do. ideals set before us in the Treaty of Rome, we rejoice that so much real progress has in fact I must warn you, however, Mr President, that been made in setting up the institutions of the not all my colleagues in the British Conservative new Europe. We are fortunate to be joining the delegation share to the fulI the enthusiasm European Economic Community just at the which I have just e:rpressed for this work. We moment when the early gains have been con- have thought it right, in submitting the names solidated, and at a time when the great leap for- which both houses of our Parliament have ward envisaged in the Paris Summit is about unanimously approved, to produce a team which to get under way. W'e look forward, those of us is as representative as possible, and we have who come from Ireland, to playing our part in given due weight, therefore, not only to the the long and arduous programme of work that vêrious regions of our country but also to those has been promised for the coming years. sections of opinion in the party who have yet to be convinced of the wisdom of the step wNch In a more direct and personal way, this meeting we have taken or, indeed, who are flatly op- marks for us who come here for the first time posed to it, at least in its present form. today the beginning of our task as members of the European Parliament. However much 'u/e That the British team is not even more fully may recognise its existing deficiencies, the representative is something which I naturally European Parliament remains for us, as for all regret, though there is not very much that I or peoples of the enlarged Community, the essential any other Conservative can do about it. I do democratic framework without which the whole not think it is a gap which will remain unfilled concept of European integration would be ren- for very long; but until it is füed, I fear that dered futile. \Me look forward, thereforg all of us, qüte a large section of British opinion will to the varied tasks which await us here, just as remain unrepresented in this Parliament. we look forward to the prospect of joining with That is itself pity, for the decisions we our European colleagues in the activities of the a shall take here in the immediate future are ones Political Groups. IMe will do all we can to co- which affect to the fuIl the daily lives of operate the struggle to increase the powers will in every one 50 million citizens our and the prestige of this Parliament so that it of the of islands. As the legislation flows out from the may become a fully equal partner with the other Cornmission, not only in its normal course of Community institutions. business but in pursuance of the decisions taken I thank you, Mr. President, for your kind words at the Summit Conference last October, the of welcome, and I can give you the assurance of shape of our Community for the next ten years our intense and active interest in the fonnrarding at least will begin to form and it is vital that of the proceedings of this great European Parlia- the voice of a1l our peoples, through their ment. reppesentatives here, should be fully heard. (Applause) \Me shall have much to say, particularly on such matters as the Common Agricultural Policy- President. Thank you, Mr Yeats. I call Mr which still, rightly or wrongly, causes much Kirk to speak- on behalf of the British Members concern in my country-the proposed regional of the European Parliament. policy from which so many of our people have great expectations, ild the monetary and economic policy which, if it is successful, can- Mr Kirk. (E) It is with a great sense of pride not fail to transform our own economic position that I speak- today as the first citizen of my in the world even more drastically than the country ever to address this Parliament as a Community in its present form. member. My own feelings are necessarily those of profound emotion, for it was the European \Me shall. have much to say, too, about the work- cause more than any other which has influenced ings of the Parliament, for the health of this me throughout 18 years of British parliamentary Parliament is essential to the health of the Iife, nearly half of them spent in our sister Community as a whole. The Com,munity cannot assemblies, the Council of Europe and \Mestern function unless it has a base in the hearts and European Union. minds of the peoples, and Parliament is the L4 Debates of the European Parüament rtuk only body which can provide that base. Without Treaty. We take as our motto "Silence gives an effective Parliament our Community is in consent" and that vÿe are entitled to do anything danger of strangliag in bureaucracy or drowning which is not expressly prohibited. Let us do that in apathy. in every area that \ile can find it. The power we have may be a negative one. This has always Parliament must be made to work for the good been so in the formative years of parliaments. not only of ourselves but of the two other But it is a real potffer just the same, and it is institutions as well, for if one part of the body there for the taking. is sick it is bound to infect the whole. If anyone says, "You have not been given the 'W'e have thought long and hard about this, and right of initiative", the answer is simple and we realise the inevitable tendency of new mem- clear. Initiatives are not there to be given; they bers to try to change everything to their own are there to be seized. '\il'e can, and must, seize Iiking. That we must resist. them. Our Parliament, if it is to have true üfe, will It is in this spirit that we shall act and it is for acquire its own procedures based, we hope, on this that we have come. Our policy is a simple the best that each of our nine constituent onts-porÀ/er to the Parliament. Our rules must Parliaments can provide. Insofar as v/e can be shaped with that and that alone irr mind. contribute to that task we shall do so. It may There must be po\lrer over the Commission first well be that there are methods and procedures because that is imptied in the Treaty. But we in use at Westminster which will be highly must examine our relations with the Council as relevant and useful here. To that end we have well. Here we shall need to proceed in closest drawn up a memorandum, attached to a draft cooperation with our national Parliaments. The. resolution, which I have today tabled on behalf close accord between us here and those remain- of the Conservative group. ing in Parliaments at home is something which needs to be developed with the utmost urgency. We believe from the study we have been able to By this means this Parliament will live and the make that this Parliament should seize the peoples will clamour to be directly represented opportunity created by enlargement to take a in it. thorough but quick look at itself and its rela- personal note. As tions to the other institutions. \[e have therefore May I end, as I began, on a day me the culmination proposed that a special committee of 13 members I have said, this is for quarter should constituted, charged this of aII of my political life. A of a century be with young great investigation. It would be able to hear evidence ago, as a student, I observed the from anyone it likes, members of national congress at The Hague from which all this Parliaments as well as this one, parliamentary sprang. It was the dead who called us then- officers, academics and the journalists who the dead of countless battlefields through the particularly report our proceeüngs. It should report back ages and those of the two suicidal with the minimum of delay, and its report civil wars which Europe has fought in this should then be subjected to the fullest scrutiny century. and debate by us before the changes are made. They call us still. The voice may be fainter now, Only in this way, we believe, shall we get the the call obscured by the bureaucracy, po\iler type of broad perspective which is so essential. politics, the sheer frustration which has inter- But procedural reform, important though it is, vened since that time. But the call is still there, is not, and must not be, an end in itself. It can and it is for us even more than for the other be a real snare, giving the illusion of action institutions of the Community. without the reality. \ffe also wish to press ahead with those things which Parliament can Ilÿhat we then set out to do was penance for do now without any changes in the Treaty. their death by the creation of a system which would make such madness impossible ever The more we have examined the situation the again, a system which would be for us, the more astonished we are at the latent power Europeans, but which we hoped would be an which this Parliament could have if only it inspiration for the world. Despite all of the would use it. ïV'e hope to play our part in this, detours which have taken place, that is still our through things like questions, budgetary con- goal and it is only in and through this Parlia- trol and other measures some of which we have ment that it can be achieved. IAis is because it indicated in the document to which I have is this Parliament which gives the Community referred. its uniqueness in the world. There is not, there' never has been, anything like it. It stands for Vle have given many examples of how vr'e can free discussion and solution by consent, for the assume power even if it is not explicit in the willingness of the minority to bow to the will of Sitttne of fuesday, 16 January 1973 15 rtrk

the majority and of the majority to allow the As regards enlarging the committees, the lists minority to be heard to the fullest possible of the new members will be recorded in the extent. minutes of today's sitting.

Only in this way can our problems be solved. Any objections ? Only in this way can the world's problems be solved. In this sense, frail and frustrated though It is so resolved. it may appear to be this Parüament remains the W'e will now adiourn until three o'clock. Iast best hope of mankind. (Sustained, Applause) The sitti,ng usas adjourned at 72.55 p.m.

President. Thank you, Mr Kirk. - IN TIIE CHATR: MR BEHRENDT Presi.dent 3. Decisions on the membershtp of the Bureau anil the Com,mittees (The sitting usas opened at 3.10 p.m.)

Fresident. Before we adjourn until three President. The sitting is opened. o'clock this- afternoon, I would like to point out - that enlargement is going to affect the membership of the various bodies of our Parliament. The Bureau proposes that for the interim period, 5. Membershi.p of comrni.ttees that is to say from today until the March part- session, you approve the following changes: The President informs the House that pending regards the membership of the Bureau, an the constituent part-session in March, the mem- -asincrease of three members; that is to say, an bership of the committees referred to below will increase of one for each new Member State be enlarged as follows : and Political Affairs Committee; Mr Dalsager, - Mr Yeats, Mr Kirk and Lord Gladwyn. - as regards the membership of the committees, an increase of four members for each committee; - Economic Affairs Committee: Mr Federspiel, that is to say, two for the United Kingdom and Mr Ryan, Lord Brecon and Sir Brandon one each for Denmark and lreland. Rhys-Williams

Are there any objections ? Committee for Finance and Budgets: Mr Bro, - Mr Keating, Mr Pounder and Lord O'Hagan It is so resolved. Committee on Agriculture: Mr Jakobsen, Mr - Hilliard, Mr Scott-Hopkins and Lord St. Oswald 4. Enlargement oJ the Bureau oJ the European Parli,ament Committee on Social Affairs and Health - Protection: Mr Christensen, Mr No1an, Baroness Elles, and Mr John HiIl President. In preparation for the constituent part-session- of the European Parliament in Committee on External Trade Relations: Mr March, the Lega1 Affairs Committee is instructed - Thomsen, Sir Anthony Esmonde, Lord Mans- to prepare proposals for adapting our Rules of field and Sir T\rfton Beamish Procedure to the situation created by the enlargement of our Parliament, and to report Legal Affairs Committee: Mrs Nielsen, Mr - McElgunn, Sir Derek Walker-Smith and Mr thereon at a plenary session. Brewis For the provisional enlargement of the Bureau, Mr Dalsager and Mr Yeats, and likewise the - Committee on Energy Research and Atomic EarI of Bessborough have been proposed. Problems: Mr Petersen, Mr Cruise-O'Brien, Lord Bessborough and Mr Normanton Are there any objections? Transport Committee: Mr Guldberg, Mr Her- It is so resolved. - bert, Mr James Hill and Mr Johnston I congratulate the new members of the Bureau, Committee for the Association with Greece: and have no doubt their cooperation will be very - Mr Bro, Mr McDonald, Sir Tufton Beamish valuable. and Sir John Peel 16 Debates of the European Parliament

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Committee for the Association with lurkey: This document has been referred to the Com- - Mr Christensen, Mr McDonald, Sir lufton mittee on Agriculture; Beamish and Sir John Peel - the proposal from the Commission of the Committee on Relations with African States European Communities to the'Council for a - and Madagascar: Mr Dich, Mr McDonald' Sir regulation on imports of rice from the Arab Douglas Dodds-Parker and Lord Reay. Republic of Egypt @oc. 262172). This document has been referred to the Com- mittee on Agriculture as the committee re- 6. Docwnsnts submi,tted sponsible and to Committee on Relations with African States and Madagascar for its opinion. President. Since the adjournment of the session f have- received the following documents (b) from the parlianrrentary committees, the following reports: (a) from the Council of the European Communi- ties, requests for an opinion on: Rerport by Mr Linus Memmel drawn up on - behalf of the Legal Affaü,rs Committee on the the proposats from the Commission of the insertion in the Rules of Prooedure of an - European Communities. to the Council for Artictre 47A concerning the introduction in regulations on the implementation of gener- the European Parrliament of an hour set aside alized preferences in favour of developing for questions and debates on request and countries for 1973 @oc. 254172) This docu- directives as to how they should be organized ment has been referred to the Committee on @oc.252172); External Trade Relations as the committee Report Mr Cornelis Berkhouwer drawn up responsible and to the Committee on Rela- - by with African States and Madagascar on behalf of the Economic Affairs Committee tions on compÈ and the Economic Alfairs Committee for on the Commission's first report tition policy (Doc. 31172) (Doc. 2531721; their opinions; - up on letter from the President of the Council of Report by Mr Charles Durand drawn a - on Social Affairs - the European Communities to the President behalf of the Committee on the proposal from of the European Parliament on the the pro- and Health Protection the European Communi- posals from the Commission of the European the Commission of (Doc. L73172) for a decision Communities to the Council referred to in ties to the Council protect Community livestock Doc.254172 (260172). on action to against foot-and-mouth .lisease @oc. 258172); to the Com- This document has been referred Report by MlGerhard Reischl drawn up on mittee on External Trade Relations; - behalf of the Legal Affairs Committee on the proposal from the Commission of the the proposal from the Commission of the - European Communities to the Council for a European Communities to the'Council @oc. regulation amending Council Regu- 22t72) for a regulation concerning legislation @EC) the Iation 1463/70 of JuIy 1970 on the introduc- for the settlement of labour disputes in tion of a rnonitoring device in road traffic Community (Doc. 261172); @oc.256172). - Report by Mr Mario Vetrone drawn up on This document has been referred to the behalf of the Committee on Agriculture on proposal Commission of the Transport Committee as the committee the from the the Council responsible and to the Committee on Social Eunopean Communities to @oc. 235172) on imports of citrus Affairs and Health Protection for its opinion; for a regulation fruit originating in the Arab Republic of the pluriannual financial forecast for the Egypt @oc.263172); - budget of the European Communities (19?3' Report by Mr Mario Vetrone drawn up 1974 and 1975) @oc. 257172). - on behalf of the Committee on Agriculture on This document has been referred to the Com- the proposal from the Commission of the mittee fsr Finance and Budgets; European Communities to the Council @oc. 262172) for a regulation on imports of rice the proposal from the Commission of the Egypt (Doc.264l - ,Communities from the Arab Republic of European to the Council for 72); a regul'ation amending Regulation No. 1009/ 67|EE,C on the corlmon organization of the Report by Mr Hans-Jurgen Klinker drawn market in sugar (Doc. 259172). - up on behalf on the Committee on Agri- Sitttne of Tuesday, 16 January 1973 t7

President

culture on the proposal from the Commission of the European,Coal and Steel Community of the European Communities to the Council and tàe Swiss Confederation o1.22 July 1972; (Doc. 259172) for a regulation amending Additional Agreement concerning the vali- Regulation No. 1009/67/EEC on the common - organization of the market in sugar 'poc. dity, for the Principality of Liechtenstein, of Agr,eernent 265172); the between the European Eco- nomic Community and the Swiss Confedera- Interim report by Mr Louis Briot drawn up tion of 22 Jt;Jy 19721' - on behalf of the Committee on Agriculture Agreement ttle European Economic on the common organization of the market in - between ethyl alcohol of agricultural origin (Doc. 266/ Community and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in 72); the Near East on deliveries of white sugar (c) from the Parliamentary Committee for the under the food aid programme; Association between the European Economic Agreement between the European Economic Community and the East African States : the - Community and the Republic of Bangladesh 28 resolution adopted by this committee on on deliveries of soft wheat under the food aid November 1972 in Nairobi @oc.255172). progranrme; Agreement between the European Economic - Community and the Republic of Iceland; 7. Teæts of agreements forutard'ed, bg th'e Council Agreement between the Member States of - the European'Coal and Steel Community and the Republic of lceland. PresidenL I have received certi-fied copie of the following- documents from the 'Council of These documents will be filed in the archives the European Communities : of the European Parliament. Agreement between the Member States of - the European Coal and Steel Community and the European CoaI and Steel Community, of 8. Authortzation to ilraus up repofis the one part, and the Republic of Austria, of the other part; Fresident. I would point out that, pursuant Agreement between the European Economic to Article 38- of the Rules of Procedure, I have - Community and the Republic of Austria ; authorized the Committee on Social Affairs and Health Protection, at its request, to draw up the Agreement between the Member States of following reports : - the European Coal and Steel Community, and the European Coal and'Steel Community, Report on the Ninth Report of the Mines of the one part, and the Portuguese Republic, - Sa§ety and Health Commission and the Third of the other part; Report of the Steel Industry Safety Commis- sion; Agreement between the European Economic - Community and the Portuguese Republic; Report on First Measures towards a com- - mon vocational training policy. Agreement between the Member States of - the European Coal and Steel Community and the European Coal and Stee[ Community, of the one part, and the Kingdom of Sweden, 9. Reterence to comrni,ttees of the other part; Agreement between the European Economic Fresident. - I would like to point out that the - Community and the Kingdom of Sweden; proposal from the Commission of the European Communities to the Council for a directive con- - Agreement between the Member States of cerning the approxirnation of Member States' the European Coal and Steel Community and legislation on safety glass for use in motor the Swiss Confederation; veh,icles @oc. 744172), which had been referred Agreement between the European Economic on 9 Octobet 7972 to the Legal Affairs Commit- - ,Community and the Swiss Confederation; tee as the com",ittee responsible and to the Transport Committee and the Committee on Additional Agreernent concerning the vali- Social Affairs and Health Protection for their - 'dity, for the Principality of Liechtenstein, of opinions, had now also been referred to the the Agreement between the Member States Economic Affairs Committee for its opinion. 18 Debates of the European Parliament

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Ttre proposal from the Commission of the Euro- This afternowt pean Communities to the Council for a regu- Communication from the Council's Presi- lation for the common organization of the - dent-in-office on the Association Agreement market in ethyl alcohol of agricultural origin between the EEC and the Republic of and supplementary provisions folethyl alcohol Cyprus; of non-agr,icultural origin and .certain products Communication from the Council's Presi- containing alcohol @oc. 2172), which had been - referred on 17 April 1972 to the Committee on dent-in-office on the budget of the European Agriculture as the committee responsible and Communities for 1973; to the Committee on External Trade Relations Statement by the Commission of the Euro- and the Committee for Finanse and Budgets - pean Communities on the economic situation for their opinions, had now also been referred in the Community; this will be followed by to the Economic Affairs Comnittee for its opin- a debate. ion. The report by Mr Berkhouwer on the Commis- sion's first report on competition policy and Oral Question No. 25172, qrith debate, on 10. Restricti,on of spealeing tim.e barriers to free competition in the sugar trade, which were to have been discussed together, President. In accordanoe with the usual prac- were deferred to the February part-session. tice under- Rule 31 of the Rules of Procedure speaking time on the various points on the From 6 p.m.: agenda will be restricted as follows : aside for meetings of political groups. - set 15 minutes for the rapporteur and for one - speaker on behalf of each group, W ed,nesd,aA, 17 J anuarg 797 3 10 minutes for other sPeakers, - üntil10 a.m.: 5 minutes for speakers on proposed amend- set aside for meetings of political groups. .ments. - p.m. President. Are there any objections ? 70 a.m. and.3 : It is so resolved- OraI Question No. 19i72, with debate, on the - Franco-Polish Economic Cooperation Agree- ment; lL. Deci,si,on on urgent Proceilure Interim report by Mr Ballardini on the estab- - lishment of a Community network for the ProsidenL I propose to the Parliament to storage of radioactive waste; decide to deal- by urgent procedure with reports Report by Mr Giraudo on the involvement not submitted within the time-limit laid down - of Parliament in the conclusion of trade in the regulation of 11 MaY 1967. agreements with non-member States;

Is there any objection ? Report by Mr Noé on a common approach - to air transport; It is so resolved. Report by Mr Memmel on the insertion of a - new article in the Rules of Procedure.

12. Ord,er of busi,ness Fro'm 6 p.m.: set aside for meetings of political groups. President. In accordance with the mandate - whioh the -Parliament gave me at its sitting of 12 December 1972 I had a draft agenda drawn Thursdag, 78 Januarg 7973 up. In the interval however the enlarged Bureau Unti.L 70 a.m. : made one or two changes at its meeting on set aside for meetings of political groups. 10 January 1973, and further changes proved - necessary. 70 a.m. and, 3 p.m: All these changes are in the draft agenda that Report by Mr Reischl on legislation for the I will present to you : - settlement of labour disputes; Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 1973 19

Preslilenü

Oral Question No. 26172, with debate, on the Report by Mr Kriedemann on certain fishery - formation and use of surplus butter stocks; - products; Oral Question No. 25172, with debate, on - Report by Mr Heger on certain measures to barriers to free competition in the sugar trade be taken in agriculture in view of the was deleted from the agenda and will be development of the monetary situation. discussed together with Mr Berkhouwer's report on competition policy during the February part- President. I call Mr Lôhr. session. - Lôhr. (D). Mr President, In connection with Report by Mr Klinker on the corrunon organ- - - the report of Mr Briot, which is to be considered ization of the market in sugar; on Thursday, I wish to make the following Report by Mr Vetrone on import arrange- statement on behalf of the Economic Affairs - rnents for beef and veal; Committee: Report by Mr Vetràne on the Community The Economic Affairs ,Committee was given no - tariff quota for beef and veal; opportunity to state its position before the completiur of the interim report by the Commit- Report Mr Vetrone on a system of question - by tee on Agriculture. As this is a which premiums for the promotion of beef and concerns the marketing system for ethyl alcohol veal production; of agricultural origin, which also includes indus- ethyl alcohol, statement of its position Report by Mr Vandewiele on certain cocoa trial a Economic Affairs Committee is essential. - and chocolate products. by the This being so I propose that Mr Briot's report From 6 p.m.: be deleted from the agenda of this meeting. set aside for meetings of political groups. President. I call Mr Vredeling. - - Mr Vredeling. (N). Mr President, our group Fridag,19 January 1973 has discussed -this proposal of the Commis- sion this morning. It seemed to us that the 9.30 a.rn. : Economic Committee should also be given an opportunity to give its views on this matter. - Report by Mr Beylot on the financing of In these circumstances and in view of the assistance by the EAGGF Guarantee üscussion we have had, we deem it neces- Section; sary to comply with the wish of the Economic Report by Mr Koch on turnover tax and Committee. Our group therefore supports the - excise duties levied on passenger tranport; proposal to remove this point from the agenda. Report Mr Kriedemann on three regu- - by President. rüould a representative of the lations for Spanish wines (without debate); Committee -on Agriculture cane to make any comment ? - Report by Mr Kriedemann on a Community tariff quota for eels and the tariff duty on No response. small halibut (without debate); It is therefore proposed that this item be deleted Report by Mr Kriedemann on the definition from Thursday's agenda. I wiII put this proposal - (without of the Community customs territory to the vote. debate); The report of Mr Briot is deleted from the protection of Report by Mr Durand on the agenda. - Community livestock against foot-and-mouth disease; Are there any further comments on the agenda ? Report by Mr Vredeling on Community tariff I call Mr Vredelturg. - quotas for Spanish dried figs and raisins (without debate); Mr Vredeling. (i9. Mr President, f don't - Report by Mr Baas on two regulations for know whether you have indicated in the - citrus fruit; draft agenda which projects are to be debated and which can be dealt with without Report by Mr Vetrone on citrus fruit'and debate. On behalf of the Agricultural Com- - rice imports from Egypt; mittee, I propose that document 250172, a 20 Debates of the European Parüament

Vreileling neport that I must bring out and which concerns ber, as well as to the Association Agreement a number of technical matters be dealt with with Cyprus, which was signed on 19th Decem- without debate. ber, it was not possible to adopt the procedure of prior information which should have been President. At the request of the Committee followed at the time of your previous meeting, on Agriculture,- the report by Mr Vredeling will because of the social unrest which reigned at also be dealt wiûh without debate. that time in our institutions. The European Par- liament will realize that this was for the I call Mr Kriedemann. Council a case of "force majeure", and that the signing ceremony, which had already been IYIr Kriedsmann. (D) The same applies to arranged could not be postponed. Moreover, in several of my reports- which you have mentio- the case of Cyprus, such a posttrlonement would ned. This is simply the continuation of a situa- have given rise to legal difficulties. I believe tion which the Committee on Agriculture that there is no point in my giving the European passed without discussion. It can therefore be Parliament a detailed report on the contents of dealt with by the House without debate. these agreements which have in the meantime been published. I would only like to recall that President. To recapitulate, the following the Agreement with the Lebanon which was reports will,- at the request of the committees, concluded on the basis of Article 113 of the be dealt with without debate: Treaty has a framework and content which are very close to those of the Agreement with the 4 reports by Mr Kriedemann Egypt. The Association Agreement witùt Cyprus - related the one that was the report by Mr Vredeling. is more closely to - concluded with Malta. Are there arny further comrnents on the agenda ? So far as Cyprus is concerned, an additional The agenda is adopted. protocol was signed at the same time, in connection with the enlargement of the Commu- nity. As the Parliament surely knows, this was t3. Statemmt bg the Presid,ent of the a preliminary requirement requested for Cyprus Council on the Associ,ation Agreement betutem to allow the latter to conclude negotiations for the EEC and Cgprus the export of Cyprus Sherry to the British market. In the end, we were able to find a satisfactory and fair solution to this problem. President. - The next item on the ajenda is a statement by the President of the Council of the Since the Association Agreement with Cyprus is European Communities on the Association based on Article 238 of the Treat5r, it can be Agreement between the EEC and the Republic concluded by the ,Council after consultation of Cyprus. with the European Parliament. In the very I call Mr Fayat. near future, as soon as the Agreement is available in the various languages, the Council will consult Parliament. Mr Fayat, Presi,ilsnt, of the Counci.l of the Euro- pearù Communi,ties (i\D. Mr President, I take this opportunity to inform the European Ladies and Gentlemen.- I am delighted to Parliament that the authorities in CS4prus are have the opportunity to make a few short anxious to see the Agreement put into effect statements to the European Parliament with as soon as possible, precisely in connection with regard to the signing in Brussels at the end the problem of the export of Cyprus Sherry of last December of three new Agreements for which, from lst January, 1973, as long as with Mediterranean countries. the Agreement has not been put into effect, reference prices must be appüed. On the 18th December, the Agreement with Egypt, together with a supplementary pro- In the case of the Lebanon the additional protocol, was signed, in connection with the en- tocol in connection with enlargement has not Iargement of the Community. My predecessor, yet been fully worked out, but this will surely Mr llt/esterterp was able to inform the respon- be so in the near future. The Agreement can sible committees of the European Parüament then without doubt come into operation in of the content of this Agreement, before it was the first quarter of this year. srCned. We may orpect to come into operation shortly. After having given these. brief data, I would like to point out that the Council attaches great \Mith reference to the Agreement with the political importance to these three Agreements Lebanon which was also signed on 18th Decem- and is glad that they were signed before the end Sitting of luesday, 16 January 1973 2t

Fayat

of 1972. The European Parliament will recall Presldent. To whom ? that the decision to open exploratory .liscussions - with Egypt and the Lebanon was taken in Mr VredelinC. ($). Mr President, will the October, 1969 at the same time as the decision Parliarnent have- an opportunity o pronounc- to start negotiations with Israel. This occurred ing on the statements which the President at the time of a meeting of the Council which of the ,Council has just rnade? I ask this was of great importance for relations with the particularly with reference to the Agreement Mediterranean countries. After all, this meeting ooncluded between Egypt and the Community was the beginning of the Community's well- which is not, as far ,as its contents are balanced action in regard to this area. The concerned, entirely unoplrcsed. Agreements with Egypt and the Lebanon thus form two very important elements in this action President. I will now call Mr Fayat. which the Council wishes to continue in future, - within the framework of a general, well-balanced policy, the establishment of which, as the Mr Fayat, Presi.ilqnt oÿ the Council of the Europeatr Parliament knows, is one of the European Communi,ties - (I\D. Mr President, priority commitments of the enlarged Commu- I have already said that it goes without saying nity in the sphere of foreign relations. that the President of the Council is at the üsposal of the Poütical Affairs Committee of The Agreement with C54prus, too, fitted into this the European Parliament to go further into this framework and we are particularly delighted to matter. have been able, on the eve of the enlargement of the ,Community, to conclude another agree- 'W'e President. Are there any further comments? ment with a Comrnonwealth country. are, - at the same time, convinced that this Agree- The discussion on this point is closed. ment will benefit the entire population of the island.

I also wish to mention briefly how far the 14. Statement bg the Presi,ilent of the Council negotiations in progress regarding the applica- on the budget of the European Communi,ti,es tion of the existing agreements to the new for 7973 situation of the enlarged Community have advanced. 'W'e were able to conclude negotia- President. The next item on the agenda is tions with Spain and Israel on 22nd December, - 1972 and the Council approved the results a statement by the,Prresidenrt of the Council on yesterday. the budget of the European Communities for 1973. Mr President, I am naturally at the disposal of the responsible committees of your Parlia- I call Mr Fayat. ment, to inform the latter, in accordance with agreed procedures, of the contents of the agree- Mr Fayat, Presi,ilent of the Counci,l of the ments before they are signed. The final phase of European Cornmuniti,es. (f). Mr President, the association negotiations in regard to Morocco Ladies and Geutlemen. May- I begin by apolo- and Tunisia began on llth and 16th January gising in advance for the unavoidably technical respectively and they will shortly begin for nature of this speech, and by reminding you Turkey and Greece. The case of Malta will be that, at its meeting on 5 December 1972, the dealt with by the Council at its next meeting. Council was inJormed of the resolution and A situation which was still somewhat compü- proposed amendments adopted by the European cated in December last has thus become clearer Parliament and of the draft general budget and the situation in regard to the relations of the European Communities for the 1973 between the enlarged Community and each of financial year as amended by the Parliament, these states will soon be better defined. I would on 16 November 1972. point out that in anticipation of the coming into fn accordance cooperation procedure force of these agreements the three nevr mem- with the between our ber states apply the country" ruling in two instirtutions on budgetary mat- "third ters, the Council, regard to countries which have entered into before discussing the draft budget, held general an agreement with the Community. a exchange of views on the amendments to the draft budget proposed by the European Parliament, with a delegation President. Thank you, - Mr Fayat. from the Parliament led by yourself, Mr Pres- ident, and also comprising Mr Spenale, Chair- Il[r VredelinC. - (N) Just one short question, man of the,Committee for Fi,nanee and Budgets, Mr President. Mr Offroy, rapporteur on the budget, Mr Aigner 22 Debates of the European Parüament

Fayat and Miss Flesch, members of the Committee for out that Community participation in the agree- Finance and Budgets. ment for instituting a European information science network is the subject of a Euratom During this exchange of üews, the Council five-year training and research prograurme noted with particular interest a suggestion made adopted by the Council on 25 April 1972 on by Mr Spenale that Lr future Parliament should the basis of Ar:ticle 7 of the Euratom Treaty. sr.lbmit a note on amendements it intends to propose to the draft budget and on the Parlia- The Council stresses that there is alneady an ment's reasoning behind such amendments. appropriation for implementing this programme in Chapter 2.30 of the 1972 budget, "Joint Pro- I would remind you also that during this ex- gramme-JRC direct aotion". change of views the'Council proposed that, save policy in cases of ,extreme urgency, there should in As far as regional structures is concerned amendment No 8, the Council future be a cqrsultation procedure with Parlia- -proposed ment as soon as the Council is informed of thought that a decision on this matter could proposals to transfer appropriations under not be taken through 'budgetary channels. Chapter 98 concerning unallocated estimate reform the Europeaa Social Fund' ,chapters As to of appropriations, to other in the same proposed amendments Nos 3 and 4, the Council letter section of the' budget. You were sent a took into account new proposals from the Com- on this matter which specified the conditions mission by providing appropriations irr the draft procedure under which this consultation could budget; i considered that there was no new be implemented. factor to justify an increase in these appropria- took the Parliament's wishes into Finally, I would like to remind you that, fol- tions. It also account by deciding on a considerable increase lowing this exchange of views, the Council has Fund for Parliament on the new in the appropriations for the Social decided to consult year. proposal for a financial regulation, and on a the 1973 financial proposal to amend 'Council Regulation No 2/71 It did not wish to ne-open the matter of the implem'enting the Decision of 21 April 1970 on allocation of appropriations for projects to be the replacement of the financial ,contributions carried out under Article 4 and Article 5 of its of the Member States by the Communities' own Decision of 1 February 1971. resourges. The 'Council points out finally that, when As I have told you, the Council has examined adopting a compromise solution for appropria- the amendments proposed by Parliament most tions to be made for the European'Social Fund carefully and discussed them with the Commis- in 1973, the possibility of increasing the appro- sion, fur accordance with the provisions of the priations in question was not ruLed out. Should Treaties. the Commission submit a report to the Council on the use of the appropriations to the Social First of all I should like to stress that the Coun- Ftrnd demonstrating the need for an increase, the cil has decided to accept as they stand the amount neoessary could be made availabl'e 20 and proposed amendments Nos 9, 11, 16, 18, by means of a supPlementary budget. 2l submitted by Parliament. As regards projeots for improving agricultural After examining the grounds for the other pro- structures-proposed amendment No 1, the posed amendments, the Council was not able to Council considered that the sum of 285 rnillion agr.ee to them and has instructed me to set out units of account could not be changed through the reasons for which it has been unable to the budget, and stressed that the question of accept them. whether it was appropriate to modify the arurual As regards the staff of the Statis,tics Office- amount to be set aside for the guidance section proposed amendment No 5, the Courcil points was still under consideration. Accordingly, to out that, when the dralt 1973 budget was drawn settle this matter now would be premature. up, it agreed with theiCommission on an over- The Council will first of all give a decision on all soh.ltion on the issue of Commission staff. this matter, after which ttr,e appropriations in the budget wilt be adjusted accordingly, if It therefore considered that the Commission necessary. could take account of the staff requirements of As regards Mansholt reseroe", as it is com- 'lhe Statistics Officre of the European Communi- "th,e monly known-proposed amendment No 19, the ties when allocating staff according to the needs points out that, no pnovision has been of its departments. Council made to alllocate these appropriations during the As regards the European information network, financial year 1973. For this reason these appro- amendment No 22, the Council points priations as a whole have been entered as a -proposed Sitttng of Tuesday, 16 January 1973 2g

Fayat special item in the annotations to the budget. and Budgets will have to consider them and As for Communi,tg tndustri,al polàcat,-proposed make such observations as it deems appropriate. amendment No 7, the Council decided not to The fact thaû Great Britain has just entered the anticipate in any way such decisions as it might Common Market is not my pretext for submit- be required to take regarding Community inno- ting the President of the Council to what is vation and industrial development contracts. ' known as the "Scotsman's shoqrer". The Council also decid,ed in the course of its I must begin on a warm note, for it is true discussions that the appropriations to be entered that given th,e Iimitations of a gentlemen's in the general budget for the financial year agreement, r,elations between the two institu- 1973 to meet staff ,expenditure were to be tions have been marked by more frequent con- reviewed if necessary on the basis of decisions tact, and have been more wide-ranging and to be taken regarding wage and salary adjust- fruitful. ments. These decisions have in the meantime When considering the progress of the proposed accord- been taken and the allocations reviewed amendments submitted by this Parliarnenrt from ingly. the discussions before the preliminary draft was prepared final decision of the Council, Subsequent to the Coun'cil's discussions and in to the we have more reason for satisfaction than in accordance with the provisions of the Treaties, past. obliged to my predecessor noted that the general budget the Nevertheless, I am now cold for you have stated on two of the European Communities for the financial apply the tap, occasions, the first of these'being in connection year 1973 was finally adopted. with regional structures-proposal no. &-that However, this budget will need to be adjusted the Council thought that a decision on the by a supplementary budget, in order to take matter in question could not be taken through into account the new geographical area ,covered budgetary channels. will by the Communities. The Commission My immediate reply is that Parliarnent has not preliminary of the accordingly submit a draft attempted to take a decision through budgetary Council within the supplementary budget to the channels. Indeed, last year it only 'sought the next few weeks. entry of an ütem for the record. It would seem Finally, the Council took note of the fact that that the financial consequences of such a budge- would have been fairly anodine. the delle§a'tions of the acceding States had not tary decision althought it commented further on this budget. However, the Council rejected it, is not certain that it had the necessary quorum Mr President, Ladies and C'entlemen, I feel that to do so, since the entry of this item would I can speak on behalf of the Council in saying not have increased ,expenditure. that it is gratified by the closer collaboration This year, we entered an addritional amount of Assembly that has been established with the one thousand units of accourrt which the Council questions. yourself, Mr on budgetary Like Pre has also removed on the basis that a decision your for sident, and the Chairman of Committee could not be taken through budgetary channels. Budgets, the'Council also rnake Finance and will The second issue relates to the plans for improv- every effort to strengthen that collaboration still ing agricultural structures, that is, the annual and in this way to promote further in the future sum of 285 million units of account. the exchange of views between the two institutions while maintaining a balance in their Let me first say that these two proposals are respective arears of responsibility and authority consistent with each other, since the mai.rr object in rttlis fi,eld, of whose importance we are all of a regional policy must be to deal with the aurare and in which the relations between our areas where there is heavy defection from the iastitutions are proving increasingly fruitful. country and agricultural structures are ineffi- (Applause) cierut. With six Member Sta,tes we have been setting President. I call Mr Spénale. ,an - aside annual amount of 285 million uruits of account for this item, and we considered that Mr Spénale, Chai,rrnan of the Committee on now there ar,e nine Member States, the share Fi,nance and Budgets. (f). I have listened of each would be much smaller, and that it very attentively to the- account of the final was therefore necessary to enter an additional decisions of the Council on the 1973 budget amount. just given by the President of the Council. rilhat did ;rou say? That this figure could not His statements cannot, in my opinion, pass yet be chauged through the budget, adding without comment and the Committee on Finance that: "the Council will first of all give a deoision 24 Debates of tlle European Parliament

§pénalo

on this matter, after which the appropriations anythdng other than its own budget, but one in the budget will be adjusted accordingly, if which is used to ask us to give a show of demo- necessary". And, on the matter of interpreting cratic ratüication. the April 1970 agreements, we have been told that "accordingly" meant: "without there being I therefore thank Mr President Ortoli for having any possibility of amending them". told us this morning that the Commission will keep the promises concerndng the redefinition Mr President of the Council, I have to ,tell you of the budgetary pov/ers of the European Par- tàat the statement by tlle Council runs counter Iiament which have been given, since those to the 19?0 trea,ty. which we enjoy, which are tampered with in any event, are merely illusory. If it is necessary to amend the annual appropriations set aside for agricultural structures in From the statements made by their spokesmen the budget, the Commission exersises its power this morning, I understand that the new delega- of proposal through th,e preliminary draft tions from Ireland, Denmark and Great Britain budget, the Council then examines it in consulta- will give us crucial support in our struggle to tion with a delegation from the European Parlia- obtain Iegitimate povrers for this Parliament, ment, and the European Parliament then sub- and I shall be gratified if the ministers of these mits proposed amendments. Fina1ly, the'Council, three countri'es are able to bring about a change in the fullness of its present powers, finalises in,the attitude of the Council of Min'isters from the budget after having made ,a detailed study within, for there is no negligence on the part of the amendments proposed by Parliament. of the European Parüamen't to submit proposals But statements such as we have heard today and take initiatives, it is the Counci.l which eannot be substantiated. does not listen to them. I mention ,this because I find this statement For everything which you are able to achieve rather serious. Mr Kirk is not among us, but with us to this purpose, we thank you now and, other members of the British delegation are with you, we live in hope. present, and I invite them to consider the les- (Applause) son we were given this morning. It appears that the European Parliament does President. I call Mr Offroy. not make sufficient use of its powers of proposal. - WeIl now, the statement to the effect that the IVIr Offroy, Rapporteur on the bud,get. (F). give Council will first iôs decision, after which Mr President, I should like to add a few -words the figures urill be entered in the budget to what has just been said by Mr Spénale, the accordingly, and that we,cannot raise these mat- Chairman of the Committee on Finance and ters through the budget, is evidence of the Budgets. Council's desire, whether conscious or not, to prevent the European Parüament from exercis- Like him, I note that although the Council has ing any right of initiative or proposal, even acaepted a few minor proposals submitted by through these budgetary powere which are the Pat'lriamen't, it ha,s nevertheless put off the quoted at us so often and put forward as being proposals which we considered the mos,t impor- the true ,beginrring of the Parliament's political tant. Our proposals on both regional poücy and identity. the Social Fund have both been rejected on the pretext What point is there in the April 1970 Treaty that there were no new factors. It stipulating that we have the right to submit seems to us, however, that there were two new factors, the first being the decision of the Com- proposed amendments ü the Council tells us tha,t it does not exsmine them, and that if it mi'ttee of Ministers of Social Affairs, who have does exarnine them, we have to agree to enter held two meetings during recent monrths, and the the figures which rit instructs us to enter? the second, even more important, being insistence on the need for a bold social policy This is intolerable, since it means tha,t the deci- at the Paris "Summit" in October. Here are two sions determining the amount and structure of new factors which could have justified in- the budget are taken by tàe Council a,lone and creased effort in the field of social affairs. that as far as budgetary matters are concerned, the European Parliament enjoys about as much As to the improvernent of agricultural struc- power as a cotrr watching a train pass by-all tures, I can only agnee with what Mr Spénale ule are allowed to do is count the number of has just said. carriages. Finally, in connection vrith the common "The budgetary powers of the European Parlia- industrial policy, I should like to point out that ment" is an empty phrase when applied to we were only asking for studies to be carried Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 1973 25

Offroy out and §ince studies are only a means of pre- President. I call Mr E'ayat. paring the ground for a decision, there is no - reason why they should not be carried out Mr Fayat, Presi,ilent of the Counci,l of the before a decision on the substanoe of the European Cotrununities. (.F'). Mr President, problem is taken. Laües and Gentlernen. I- know that it is not customary the President the Council ,the for of I note that President of the Council states to reply immediately to a speech of ,this in his report that this budget will need to be nature, but I do not wish my words to be adjusted by a supptrementary budget ün order misinterpreted. I should like to point out that account ,the geographical to take into new area the approach of the Council has always been to covered by the Communrities. In fact, as we begin by adopting fundamental decisions and prepared know, the draft v/as on the basis of a then calculate their effect on the br.ldget later. ten-member Community, and we shall have to amend it because there are now nine Member I should add that these fundamental decisions States fur the Community. affecting the budget are normally the zubject of consultations with the European Parliament, I should like to express the hope that it will be and of debates in the Parliament. Finally, I possible to take more account of the information should like to add a word on the address given we have supplied in this supplementary budget. by the Commission by saying that the Council looks forward with interest to receiving the In conclusion, Mr Presid,ent, I should like to say proposals which the Commission has announsed this: During the general debate this morning, it v/ill be submitting on the question of the certain speakers mentioned significant that budgetary trFvÿers of the Parliament. sectors of opinion in the new Member States, particularly Great Britain, v/ere not in favour President. Are there any further comments? of entry into the Common Market. Regret was - also expressed that countries like Norway had The discussion on this point is closed. in the end decided not to joln, for the time being at least. For my part, I am convinced- and I base my conclusions on the example of what I saw fur my ourn country when a refe- 15. Statement bg the Cotnmission rendum on the question of the treaties of on the economi,c situati,on i.n the Communi,tg accession was held-that this reluctanc.e arises out of excessive apprehension about all aspects President. The next item on the agenda is a of ,common policy in the,Common Market. If a statement by- Mr Haferkamp, for the Commission bolder, more dynamic, Euro,pean approach is of the European Communities on the economic adopted on regional Folicy, to which the British situation in the Community. attach such impor.tance, social policy, which was called for by Mr Pompidou, Mr Brandt and I sall Mr Haferkamp. others participating in the October "Summit", the improvemenrt of agricultural structutes, Mr Haferkamp, Vi,ce-Presid,ent of the Commi,s- which serreral countries desire, and in the field si.on of the European Comrnunities. (D). Mr of fndustrial policy, where there is a ,need to President, it is now an estabüshed- tradition, provide assistance for smaller undertakings and a good one, in this House to begin the year which do not have the means to allocate a very with a review of the'economic situation in the large proportion of their budgets to research, I Community. The Commission welcomes the fact qrn convinced that we would encounter less that it is possible to continue this tradition in the reluctance arnong the public. present year and to tr,a^u-d it on to the enlarged Community. As you will appreciate, this has Sinse we are here in tbe European Parliament, involved a certain amount of effort on the part I should üke to express my conviction that if of the Commission, as the present Commission the Council 'does not take account of these has been in office orlly a few days, and the factors, we shall experience further setbacks in various rresponSibili,ties ha\re only recently been addition to Norway's decision against entry and allocated. For us the debate at the beginning of the absence of certain British representatives the year means that we, together with Parlia- from our midst. ment, reüew the past year, ,then consider developments coming year and seek to assess I should like to express the hope that the Coun- in the and to identify some of the cil will draw the,lesson of the last few months, these developments problems which are likely to emerge. adopt a more resolute a,ttitude and take more account of the proposals made by Parliament. As I mentioned, this tradition is a valuable one. (Applause) We intend to continue it. I should, however, at Debates of tàe European Parliament

Eaferkamp

this juncture not like to omit to render thanks Economic Communities preserved relative dlsci- to the man who for many years has made this pline in their export prices. Nevertheless, we report within the Community and occupied a must plaae on record certain new featuræ in distinguished place in the CommunitSr's work in the ,course of the past year, for instance a very the genera!. context of our ,economic and mone- marked decline in the upward movement of tary problems: I refer,to our former Vice"Presi- prices in the USA. Towands the end of the year dent and my friend Raimond Barre. the price rise there was only half as high as (Applat+se) the average withln the Community.

Ladies and Gentlemen, fn loolring back on 1gT2 Such in rough outline is the picture as we enter we may say of the overall development of our the New Year. V/hat factors have we to take economy: it was not bad, neither was it good- into account in 1973? Both in the annual report it was somewhere in between; in German we of the Commission last year, and in the parlia- would say that it was, if anything, middling. mentary resolution of October 1972 we recorded Expressed in figunes this means that, as regards that 1973 may be marked by an active and real growth in i,ndividual Member States, pro- broadly-based revival of trade. This forecast gress 'in the Community of the Six has been from the latter months of the past year is con- extremely varied. Compared with 1971 our real firmed by indications now available. The fore- growth was about 4Pl0. This figure, however, cast applied not only to this Communi§r, but rqrresents the avenage between nearly 60/o in also to other important industrial aneas of the the case of Franoe, a good 4ÿlo in Belgium, 3.50/o Western world. We reckon on an average real in the Netherlands and,about 3o/o in the Federal growth in member countries of our Community Republic of Germany, Italy and Luxembourg. of 4.5 to 5o/0. \Me find that within this range rapid expansion will be possible as compared As regards the countries which entened the Com- with 1972, especially in W'estern Germany and munity a,t the beginning of the year, here too Great Britain, and probably in ltaly, Belgium, there are üfferences and the criterion "neither the Netherlands and Luxembourg. In the case good nor bad, but about middling" applies. In of Ir,eland rand Denmark we expect a more rapid Great Britain real growth was 3.50/0, i,n Denmark growth than last year. In Francne it should per- 4.50/o and in Ireland 3o/0. hap be possiUle to stabilize the rate of real growth, which at 60/o was quite high. As regards the employment picture, generally speaking the trend i:rr all countries was, regret- Turning to the areas outside the Community, we tably, slightly downward. On average the find that in the IISA a real growth of 60/0, number of unemployed rose during the year, similalto 1972, is expected. The same applies but the labour market showed a distinct im- to Canada. In Japan, which always occupies a provement in the second half. special position, a real growth of 100/o may be expected. The development of employment in The main source of concern in the past year the Community justifies the expectation of an will also be our main anxiety this year: the improvement on the basis of stabilized economic rise in prices. There is not much that is new to factors. We must rem,ember, however, that we report. The anxieties and the numbers are are in the ,early stages of an upturn, i.e. to known to you. At the end of 1972 price rises begin with, existing production capacities will were between 6.50lo and 7.5o/o compared with be used to better advantage, thus registering a 1971, in conditions of relatively moderate quite marked advance in productivity; it will growth. not automatically foLlow that, because of a rise in real growth, there will be an equal rise in UnfortunLately, it is not possible to assert at the persons beginning year the number of employed. Increased of this ttr,at this trend has growth will be reflected only, by a relatively altered. We shall see what steps we shall have slow process, in an improvemen't in the labour adopt this year. .to market, and there will be marked differencres indiüdua1 economic sectorc and coun- As regards the export between traàe, prima facie the tries. situation in the past year was satisfaatory. The surplus on curr.ent ,account in the Community Consequently, the ,employment situation will increased slightly, but we must remember that improve, although, for instance, in Great Britain, certain non-r€current factors are involved. On Italy, the Netherlands and Eire it will not yet the one hand, there was the improvement in qualify as "satisfactory". In these countries a the terms of trade caused by the Agreement of phenomenon which we ourselves experienced in December 1971. On the other hand, there was 1972 will become specialty marked, i.e. the struc- a restrained growth which timited the increase tural factor in the ernploy,ment situation and the in the volume of imponts. Firms in the European difficulties conneeted with it. Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 19?3 27

Eaferkamp

In view of this experience we shall have to relieve us of our responsibility to do all in our draw deductions not only for our economic po\iler to change this trend. Yet we cannot measures, but also for other fields of policy simply reverse it from one day to the next. which were referred to this morni,ng, and which Ladies ,and Gentlem,en, if you will forgive the are of special importance for the work of the i'mage, the case is similar to that of a car driven year. I have in mind.regional and social welfare at high speed. The oar does not come to a halt policies. the moment the brake is applied. Oertainly, the brake must be applied, and the car must be The main problem in 1973 will be the develop- able to stop in good time. The speed of the car ment of prices. In our opinion the main danger must perceptibly slacken. Applied 'to the is a continued upsurge in prioes at the producer problem of rising prices, thi,s would mean a and consumer levels. It is clear even to-day that perceptible slowing down in the rate of price no radica,I and sudden arrest of the price rise increases. To my mind the all-important task is can be expected in 1973. In makiag this assertion this and to seek to change the 'We to influence trsrd it is not our desire to cause alarm. must, steep curve to ,a shallow one' however, also beware of creating illusions. I shall revert to this point ln a moment. lVe must A programrne to regain stability and to combat realize that, in any action taken in 1973 to check inflation was formulated at the Summit Confer- the rise in prices, at the monrent there is no ence. Moreover, at its meeting on 30-31 October indication of any adequate mitigation on the the Council of Ministers discussed that pro- costs side, even if th,e ful'Iest use were made of gramme. At the time a good deal of negative unused capaciUes. Nor rnay we count on any criticism was made and. much disappofurtment stabilization of imports. I have ,argued that in could be heard in comments on the meeting and other areas of the world with which rà/e are on the ræolutions adopted. I believe, however, associated there is elso an upward trend and that that if today we look back on what has since there is a rnarked rise in prices and costs in our been achieved, we can say that this meeting supplier cou.ntries. Thus we have a definite v/as a very important one, ,atrd that the resolu- increase in the price of raw materials, and tions then adopted were vital, and remain vital, especially in energy, and shall experience no fgr our commoür battl,e for stability and against r"elief in that quarter. inflation. \ffage costs per production unit probably Sinoe October nearly all Member States have will (neasures, part ,concented, this continue to rise, and will be most noticeable in adopted in on question monetary and cnedit policy. would cost-inteursive industries, especially the supply of I remind you of the decisions of the issuing banks of services. We h'ave to reckon with a boom rate, minimum resulting from the demand for services. Nor conceruring rises in the discount problem can it be excluded-on the contràry, iit is to reserve ratios, etc. The of reducing the growth money and credit has be expected-that the anticipation of inflation- of the volume of ary development and cycli,cal "profit-taking" been energetically tackled. It can:rrot be disputed tlrrat substantial efforts have been made in this will canse prices to rise, as is usual at the begin- W'e see in a number of countries the ning of a boom. ürection. first steps being taken towards a restrictive This, then, is the background to the main budget pnli,cy. But we cannot assume that, in economic and monetary tasks which will arise the middte of Janruary, when a new budget year in the coming months. This hackground is a has just begun, it is possible to make a final high real growth, accunpanied by a slight but judgment on the imptrementation of the budgets its perceptible improv-ement in employment and a and the expenditure policy of a state and eontinuing rise in prioes, and our problem will rnany and varied sub-divisions, down to local be to flatten out the curve of this further price authority level, and say: this conJorms to the rise. restrictive line which vraÉi agr'eed upon in Luxembourg. Consequently, the task economic first of our Tffe shall be having our first Council Meeting policy is to regain a satisfactory price stability. in the rniddle of March, when we shall probably I said that we wish to cause no alêrm, but also be able to say more about the rezults and the to create no illusions. We must make one thing success of the budget mreasures. But we all clear: we cannot overnight arrest and a divert you know from your countries, how development which has been going on for know, and much restrictioor and oaution h,as been adopted several years. I,t would be an illusion to suppose framing budget policy for this new year. that something which takes place over a number in of years could be ended overnight by decisions Some countries have adopted incisive and of governments, the two sides of industry and irksome measures on income and prices policy, the Community institr.ltions. But this d'oes not e.g. the stabilization progra,mme in Great Britain, 28 Debates of the Eurnopean Parliament

Eaferkamp

or similar measures in other s6rrnf,1iss. A large matter as the hattle for stability, nobody would number of measures refl,ect the Luxembourg believe that we would take anry more ambitious Resolution, e.g. the stabilization poliry in Fnaarce, aim seriously either. including the lowering of tax rates in VAT, in order to lower food prices. We are constantly Concerning the emloyment situation as it affects exchanging informatlon on such measures, and the new Member States, I think it should be shall not leav,e it at that. We regard this as a one of our main aims to remove the weaknesses perrnanent task for this year and intend to rlisparities in the emplo5rment structure implement it along with the governments. according"n6 to sectoral and regional criteria. I believe this to be all the more necessary because I will not withhold from you that the measures some of these problems particularly affect our decided in Luxembourg, ho\Àrever important and fri,ends in the countries which have now joined significant they are for stabitity at national us. 'W'e must solve this question in a spirit of level and for increasing coordination and solidarity. We can solve it only if the Commun- arnarngements betw,een Community institutions ity acts as a common unit, and if those for and Member States, ,are, in the last analysis, whom these questions preserrt no great problems, disappointing. The Comm:ission had ,decided in and those who are economically strong, help Luxembourg on a general tariff reduction and those who have serious problems to meet. This a specific application of generalized preferences, will not be possible overnight, but we must and on the policy of quantitative limitation approach our economic policy tin this spirit and with a üew to stabilizing prices. You will also further develop the programmæ for our regional recall that the Council was unable to decide to and social problems in the same spirit. follov/ these proposals fro,m the Commission. In the process of realizing Economic and Next week the Commission will make a new Monetary Union we should not imagine that we proposal to the Council on the question of can make real pmgress if we do not create tariff reduction. !ÿe very much hope that a opportunities to solve the structural'difficulties decision will then be possible which can be in our Community in the same vÿay as has been incorporated into the generral trend of the bat- taken for granted hitherto in, the individual tle for stabiüty. national economies.

In this year there will be numerous meetings In the short term we should realize that we yrear of the Community institutions, which will enable have this an opportunity. W'e should make us to decide what progress has been made in resolute use of the upturn phase we âre no\u quantitative, our steps to combat inflaüion. Dates have been entering to make and even more fixed on the basis of the decision on Economic qualitative, improvements in the employment such and Monetary Union, and for consultations on structure. It is a well-known fact that trade ,cycles and budgets, in mid-March, mid- problems are more easily solved 'in the upturn phase phases growth June and mid-September. fn between are dates than in of low and decided at the Luxembourg meeting and arising recession. We are on the threshold of such a from the §ummit Conference programme. phase and should use it to remove difficulties in the employment structure. \Me shall take advantage of the dates on which The Commission sees a further task in lhe first the Community institutions meet to assess what stage of Economic and Monetary Union. We progress we have rnade in our efforts to achieve should fulfil the tasks entrusted to us by the stability, and to ,excharnge experiences as to the Summit Conference. Vÿe have been given firm effectiveness of the measunes adopted. The Com- dates, and these dates must be observed. On mission will of ooum,e use the dates and the behalf of the Commission declare that, as numerousi meetings make I far to any necessary as its proposals are Goncerned, these dates suggestions to supplement will them. It will not be observed. slacken in its endeavour to make regaining stability rinto the slogan for our economic and By I April we must set up the European fund monetary activity, as there is more at stake for cooperation on monetary policy. The target, than merely this question, which is important as you know from the finral commurriqué of enough in itself. \Mhat is really at stake is our the Summit Conference, is to facilitate the continuing credibility tin the context of all other equaliza,tion of balanoes between the iszuing efforts we rnake to build Economic and Monetary banks resulting from operations in Community Union. I said that the battle for stability and currencies, i.e. the establishmerrt of a multilat- against inflation was important enough in itself. eral intra-Communi§r system of equatrization of But at the same time we are in the major balances. The Fuord will have to administer process of brdlding our Economic and Monetary the Community system for short-term currency Union. If we were to fail in as important a aid, as well as the system of balancefinancing I

Sitting of î'uesday, 16 January 1973 29

Eaferkamp introduced when band-widths were extended, conducted and extended, in order to estabüsh in counection with problems of the so-called a colnmon standpoint for international negoti- "snake". It has been agreed that a European aüions. It is less important for us ,to read daily uni,t of ,account is to be used for otrrerations by in the press about the progress of these discus- issuing banks ûn the frarnework of the f'und, sions. In my view it,is evidence of great progress We shall therefore have to cneate the legal basis that recently thene has been l'ess open public for the Fund. \Me shall have to set up the infra- discussion of ,these currerncy matters than in structure of the Fund. Next week he Commis- many stages in the past. sion will drawfurg a suitable propæaL to zubmit to the Couneil of Mrinisters. This proposal will I can tell you that these discussions are being inrroke Art. 235 of the Agreernent and therefore conducted by us now, that our basic positions also ,concem this Parliament. If the proposal is are fi:red and have been confi,rmed by the made next week, the Council of Ministers will Summit, errd that we shall continue to adhere in our opinion have adequate time in February to these basic posirtions in the future. and March to make its arrangements to ensure that April is observed as the date for the creation As you know, the desired reform of the interna- of the Fund. tionl. currency system is to create a just and stable currency system, founded onl currency In this connection I should like to mention two c'onvertibility and on fixed but ,adjustable further commitments errtered into at the Summit parities. W'e must ensure that the discipline Conferenoe for which deadlines are set. First, needed for such a system applies to al,l countries the report on the adjustment of short-term concerned, large or small, to both'creditor and currency aid, which must be tabled by 30 Sep- debtor counÉries. Each partioipant must observe tember, and secondly the r.eport on the conditions the rules of such a system. This all-embracing for a step-by-step pooling of currency reserves, discipline is necessary to avoid any further proposed for the enrd of tftis year. unrduly strong financial disequilibrium which might produce wide shock effects. Allow me, as I have already mentioned the Currenry Fund, to add something about the Here again we shoutrd be ,confronted with the other ,currency problems in 1973. It is vital repercussions of economic conditions on the to revert to fixed parities which can, if neces- monetary seotor. I am convinced that an essential sary, be adjusted. You know of this situation condition of the success of such efforts for an from the communiqué of the Summit Confer- international currency system is that oon- ence. 'We have in the Community one country currently further progress be made in the which at pnesent has no fixed parities. economic and monetaryintegration of the Com- munity. Special impor,tance attaches to the succæs of the policies the of United Kingdom in its efforts In 1973 the first stage of the plan implementing to achieve stabiliûy. I[rle should never forget that the Economic and Monetary Uniorn will expire. monetary problems bàsically refl,ect economic The need now is to formulate âsi soon as porssible processes and structures. If the economic foun- the targets to be implemented in the second datiours are sound, monetary problems too will 'We stage. After that we mu,st determine the be more easily solved. should not imagine appropriate measurels to be taken. In this context that we can use monetary techniqures to redness we must not overlook the fact that these matt'ers which are at fault economically. We currency ,efforts within the Community with therefore welcome espeoially the measunes a view to further prognessr in the seeond stage instituted by the llnited Kingdom; they are in affect not only ourselves. If we ,manage to their first stage and are to be developed further. 'We enforce this pol.icy, we automatically secure our hope for stabilization of the economic condi- external Commun'ity pæiition. We shoutrd bear tions and for a rapid re+stablishment of a in mind these two parts of the development. permanent parity of the Ê. By so doing the full participation of all Member States of the It is of fundarnental importance, in the traarsition enlarged Communities in the exchange rate to ûhe second stag,e, for this Economic and sptem and the various currlency mechanisms Monetary Union, of which we enter the inter- of the Community can be assured. mediate stage, to be regar'dd as the centrepiece European union. The on The rreform of the international currency system of the desired work is being discnssed on tJre basis of the I points the second stage will thus acquire an importance purely and laid dowul by the Summit Conference in a which transcenrds the economic lmportant nurnber of Community groups. monetary field. It will represent an element in the political climate this year and Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to say to you: subsequent years ,and for the Comrnunity's 11 is irnportant for these discussions to be "development. I

30 Debates of the European Parliament

Eaferkamp

As regards the Commission, the Council Ladies and Gentlemen, as you have seen, in Resolutiour of. 22.2.71 requires the Commission regard to growth we certainly have the prospect to submit sorne reports by 1 May of this year, of a gratifying development. We shall have i.e. first, ,a memorandum on the progress made plenty of opportunity to solve employment and in the first stage of Economic and Monetary structural problems, or to devise solutions in Union, taking into account the parallel nature cases where they cause us concern. But we shall of economic and monetary policy; second, in also have a continual decisive battle for stability cooperation with the appropriate committees, and against inflation. \Me cannot afford to, and we have to subrnit a r,eport on the diüsion of we must not leave this problem to governments powers anrd responsibilities among the Commun- alone. This is a matter which concems us all. ity bodies and Member States. These porà/ers 'W'e are all victims of inflation, and we should relate especially to the fields of conjunctural all join in the battle against it; this applies to policy, rnonetary and eredit policy, and budget all who bear responsibitity in the economy or policy. They must be so formulated as to ensure in politics. the smooth running of an economic and monetary 'fiIe year union, in other words they must give us a clear are at the threshold of a which will be picture of the aims and contents of the second important for the future of the Community, and resolutions already stage, ,and of who is to be responsible for what in the implementation of Union, the in this second stage. Today we are not able to adopted: Economic and Monetary give you an outline of these details, but I can Monetary Fund, together with other effects on our Com- say this: if we are in earn'est with the Economic the institutions and the whole life of and Monetary U,nion, we must demand real munity. progress in the second stage. A vast work-load awaits us all. This year 1973 demands of all who bear economic Uurrless \ile make definite progress in the second and courage. stage, we shall be unable to carry out the Plan, responsibility dedication, sincerity year maximum of which comprises the period up to 1980. There- But this also demands a Cooperation between this Parlia- fone we must impart urgency to the second cooperation. ment and the Commission has a very high stage. priority. Secondly, we shall be unable to avoid a serious Ladies and Gentlemen, The Commission looks discussion of institutional problems. If in this forwand to cooperating with you in solving the second stage important decisions have to be problems which I have outlined, especially with made in key areas, there must be no doubt as the responsible committees in your distinguished to who is responsible for what part. To quote House. the words of the Resolution of Manch 1971, it must be possible to work qückly and effectively. Thank you. These questions are too vital to the economic (Applause) and social development of our Community to allow us to deal with them in the same v/ay as other problems, which may remain for months with panels of experts, which, though annoying, IN THE CHAIR: MR ROSSI Here is not a matter of vital importance. Vice-Presld,ent decisions must be rapid and effective, and the responsibility must be clear. This is no simple matter, and will provoke much d.iscussion during I would remind the House that Parliament has the year. restricted speaking time as follows: fifteen minutes for the rapporteur and for is not my intention, It nor that of the Commis- - one speaker on behalJ of each group, sion, to discuss the institutional question according to any academic or theological prin- ten minutes for other speakers, ciples. 'W'e must, as a first step, seek to specify - proposed clearly the substance of what we have to do in five minutes for speakers on - amendments. the second stage, and, in order that it may be effective, discuss the institutional problems. If we do this, we shall have a chance of success. Mr Bos, spokesnan tor the Christian Dernocrati,e Conversely, if we begin with general discussions Group. (N). Mr President, as spokesman of institutional problems, we shall make no for the Christian- Democratic Group, I will, this progress in that field either. First, the substance afternoon, d,eliberately restrict myself, not only must be defined; after that, the institutional in regard to time, since Mr Lôhr wishes to say problems must be discussed at the same time. a few words after me, but also as far as the Sitting of luesday, 16 January 1973 31

Bos

subject matter is coneerned, because of the time jerkily and above all, more firmly. Of course, an at which this debate is taking place. Moreover increase in the quantity of money of 20olo or it is, I feel, quite natural that Mr Haferkamp, more reduces any fight against iaflation grad- although an experienced member of the Com- ually to a hopeless task. mission must nevertheless be given some time to come to grips with the extensive and compli- In the second place, experience in recent years cated economic and monetary problems with shows that the autonomous cost of inllation can- which he has been concerned for barely a \/eek not be fought with a monetary and budget policy and a half, before a truly wide-ranging debate alone. It must also be tackled directly, that is can take plaee on this subject. to say through incomes, and we will then have to revert, on broad lines to a system where Mr President, we have noted with great apprec- u/age increases are related to increases in iation the speech whieh Mr Haferkamp has just overall production. It goes without saying that made. u/ages should not be the only target of an incomes policy. It is worth noting that in such a We wish to be allowed to state that the two free country as the United States an effective problems past year, most important of the which supervision of profit margins and incomes from present year, will also be this are those of dividends proved impossible. inflation and unemployment. I call these the two most important problems besause v/e see Mr President, there is no sense in searching for these as the two most important enemies on the more perfect economic solutions, since from an road to stability, and that means the road to economic point of view the problem is pretty further progress of European cooperation. They clear. The struggle against inflation is mainly are enemies because they undermine the a question of potritical courage, in order to put confidence that many may wiüngly wish to an end, by means of unpopular measures, to the place in European cooperation. illusion of increases in incomes which bring no real improvement. From a Community point Inflation is a problem that exists in all the of view the fight against inflation is getting countries of the Community and unemployment slowly into its stride. The Luxembourg anti- is one that obtains in more than half of them. inflation resolution of November 1972 is ambi- problem very For some countries the is a tious in its aim because pegging prices to AVzolo oppressive one. There is a clear co,nnection be- is anticipated, but we question whether the these problems because the more tween two rapid means recommended are adequate. the rise in prices, the more the economy is compelled to readjust and thereby to reduce I said "ambitious" because I believe that Mr the numbers employed. Alas, in the fight against Haferkamp too spoke in pretty pessimistic terms inflation and unemployrnent, the connection beat the last meeting of the Economic Affairs ,problems tween the two is too often forgotten. Committee. He expressed himself roughly as I would like to ask whether the Commission of follows: "We must try to avoid straying too far the European Communities could perhaps check from the airn--lt/sols-ythich we set ourselves whether it would not be better to look for an in the resolution on the struggle against infla- improvement in working conditions by way of tion. We must not delude ourselves with the a reduction in working hours, particularly in hope that a process which has been going on sectors where there is high unemployment. In for so long can be stopped at short notice". our view this would create labour opportunities Mr President, with a little goodwill we can see without inflation. the efforts now being made in the various Inflation needs to be tackled at a national as Member States to evolve a kind of social con- well as an international level, that is to say, at tract in relation to the fight against inflation, Community level. At the moment the stress in as ,a result of the Luxembourg Conference. the struggle against inflation is clearly on the former. There are a number of ways and means One may question whether the direct benefit available in that area but we must, alas, state resulting from such,a central agreement will be that either the political opportunity is not particularly great, but we can consider it to be present or the political courage is lacking and the beginning of a further development and these national means are not being used thus as the way to be followed to achieve final consistently. solutions. Nevertheless a central agreement will only have a real chance of success if it contains The lesson to be learned from the crises in the an agreement on the distribution of available member states in recent years is, in our view resources, over all the relevant categories of that, in the first place monetary policy most be expenditure and also if it is concluded, not for carried out more temperately, that is to say less one year but for several years. s2 Debates of the European Parliament

Bos

In addition, t}re Community can do some very But everyone knows-and Mr Haferkamp will useful work in the longer term by an active not reproach me for saying so-that this state' policy of competition, the price competition, ment will be a pretext for the European Parlia- which, in several sectors has now become a ment, and for all who wish to express their views matter of secondary importance or has even upon a whole range of problems. disappeared altogether. It is moreover at tJre request of one of the new Mr President, it has become almost unusual, representatives in our Parliament that the Bu- even in the European Parliament, to speak of reau of our Assembly so decided at its last supranationality. Still one cannot escape the meeting. The Socialist Group has asked me to conclusion that in the coming years a very say on its behalf that we welcome the enlarge- strong centralisation of economic policy must ment of the Community and to add our olvn take place, and in the end this is nothing less message of welcome to those we have heard this than the creation of a measure of supranation- morning. We welcome this enlargement of our ality. Community, which now numbers more than lhe Secretary-Genera1 of the Dutch Ministry 260 million people. For to our minds, the these 250 mil- of Economic Affairs wrote in the Economic,/ Community is more a fraternity of Statistical Reports of 3 January that the insti- lion people than a union of nlne States. problems which now have the lowest tutional President of the Commissiop, I was struck priority Community are' those which Mr in the by the expression which you used-in this mor- have the highest ones. should ning's address when you described us as the The fight against inflation in the Community is representatives of our peoples, and drew the no Ionger exclusively possible in a national distinction between us and the members of the context. Certain areas of economic policy must Council, who are the representatives of the therefore be centralised to the extent that the States. national policy has Iost its effectiveness. We welcome the fact that the Community now That institutional problem will recur when numbers more than 250 million people, and hope the question of the transition to the second that they will all one day be able, through their phase of the economic and monetary union representatives-and this is not the case at the comes up for discussion. This phase can only present tim-to make their voices heard before eventuate if, in accondance with the resolution the European Parliament. of the Council of March, 1971, preparations have been made for the institutional provisions in the We note and regret the absence of a number of final phase. members who should have been present, first of all the representatives of Norway who, we What we now expect from the Commission of thought, would be among us today, but who are the European ,Communities is that it makes the unfoitunately not here because Norway has pertinent proposals in good time. They must be refused to join the EEC. courageous proposals, perhaps even exceptionally so in the eyes of those who prefer not to use The rejection of membership by this country the word "supranational" any more. Ttrese is in all probability attributable to a lack of proposals must be daring because they are a popular support reflecting the image of the togicat and necessary consequence of pursuing Community as projected by its bureaucracy, its economic integration in EuroPe. technocracy, and the lack of true democracy or (Applause) any genuine social policy, in short, the absence of everything that the Socialist Group has aI- ways called for. President I now call Mr Vals to speak on behalf of the- Socialist group. Naturaüy, my Group likewise regrets the absence of the representatives of the British Labour place Mr Vals. (F) Mr President, Ladies and Gen- Party, who, we feel, should take their motives the posi- tlemen. I -should like to begin by thanking Mr among us, whatever their for have taken European Haferkamp for his most interesting address. It tion they up on the economic organisation. We feel that an irnpor- will probably give rise to discussions in the tant voice will be lacking in this Parliament, a committees and Political Groups, feel sure and I voice which should be here to express the that in the course of a forthooming part-session, opinions of a section of the British population. perhaps in February next, we shall be asked to examine the proposals which Parliament intends Despite these absences, the Socialist Group will to submit in the light of the statements which continue its vigorous action. 'We are delighted have been made today. by the presence among us of our Danish and Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 19?3 33

Yals

Irish comrades, who represent countries which must take up a political position on this issue, are firmly committed to democracy and liberty. since up to now We have failed to do so, It is for this reason that the Socialist Group can The Socialist Group invites you to reflect imme- assure the European Parliament, the Commission diately on the position to be adopted by the and the Council, which is unfortunately not European Community on the reconstruction of represented in the House at the present time, this country which has been devastated by war, of its steadfast intention of pursuing a d5mamic, and hopes that the Council of Ministers will purposeful course, despite being temporarily encourage you to take this course. handicapped through not having number of a rvVe representatives corresponding to that of the think that this will enable Europe to be a Socialist voters in the Community. force in this part of the world. I would add that, although our immediate concern is for an end to I should like to state further that we will con- the conflict in Vietnam, vre are not forgetting tinue to press for political union and, in this the situation in Laos and Cambodia; we hope for connection, I was pleased to note the use, a the restoration of peace in South East Asia. moment ago, of the term "supranationality" in This, then, is what we hope to see on the political this context. Ievel: we hope that the Commission will show This very morning we heard the President of the a nerÉr face to the wor1d. Commission speak of the Community position The Paris Summit has made it possible to lay at the GATT Conference, and the President of down new guidelines and to open up ne\r per- the Council speak of concerted attitudes of the spectives, although they have sometimes disap- European Security Conference. Mr Haferkamp pointed the hopes of those, including members himself has just referred to common positions of my Group, v/ho had hoped for greater impetus on monetary matters. to be given to the democratization of the Communities. need not Nevertheless we consider all this to be insuffi- I reiterate the traditional ambitions Group, which also those cient; it is necessary to go further, particularly of my are European Parliament whole. The in foreign policy. We hope that common Eu- of the as a Summit fields of ropean positions will be taken up in this field, set ambitious targets in the the economic, monetary and development and that, instead of worrying the press by debat- social Europe. Regarding economic and mone- ing such matters as stud guns and rice husks, of the tary union, Socialist Group has already Europe will assume a political role in the world the insisted insist on the need commensurate with its importance. and will continue to to establish a policy based on a new distribution Yesterday evening, each of you will have been of earnings, guaranteed full employment and relieved, I am sure, to learn of the ending of the harmonization of social security to be imple- bombing in Vietnam north of the l?th parallel. mented through a European social budget. We Indeed, I shall do no one the injustice of believ- have always maintained the principle that if ing that he has not been relieved by the economic and monetary union is to be achieved, announcement of this news, but I can only reflect the social and economic aspects must be dealt that Europe has been conspicuously silent irt with in conjunction with it. connection with the tragedy which is being 'We also believe that a regional policy, to which played South-East Asia, and has failed out in a Community environmental policy should be or to make its voice heard either in approval, added, should be established to improve the even in condemnation. quality of life. These ambitious objectives should 'rffe have learned that, in the United States at be put into concrete form and this will be the this moment a press conference is being held by task of the Commission, which is the true source the President of the United States and Dr. Kis- of action and initiative in the institutional singer, perhaps to announce the end of this system of the European Economic Community. tragedy which has been devastating for more My Group is extremely pleased with the compo- years. than twenty sition of this new Commission. The appointmehts It is with anxiety, with anguish, that my Group of the members of the Commission, not only has awaited news of an armistice and peace in those from the original Member States, but also this part of the world, for we have been more those from the new Member States, is very than a little disappointed at recent events. satisfactory, for many of them are men of great calibr-some are former ministers, and some 'We hope that the cease-fire will be announced are perhaps future ministers. For us, who believe soon, but it is our view-and here we address that the role of the Commission is a political the Commission-that if it is announced, we one, this is very encouraging. And I would like Debates of the European Parliament

VaIs to consider as a slip of the tongue the expression moderately optimistic survey of our prospects in used by a Head of State who described one of 1973 given to us by Mr Haferkamp will meet the Commissioners as a delegate of his country. with its agreement. The Commission is a collegial body and, Gentle- One that struck me, listening to Mr Hafer- men of the Commission, you have given an thing kamp, was the absolute necessity of arriving undertaking on oath. You are the representatives policy of the Community, and, as Mr President of the fairly soon at some common economic if general Economic to survive. Commission put it so well this morning, you are our Community is 'We prices the executive whose actions the European Par- cannot go on much longer with a policy statutory liament will have to judge. This is as we would and incomes conducted by means in one country and by totally di-fferent wish it to be, and rJÿe are particularly satisfied with the composition of the Commission. methods in other countries and when there are great differences in growth rates and in prices. This morning we heard one of our nerrl/ British This is something which must lead to distortion colleagues, Mr Kirk, speaking on behalf of his in intra-Community trade. Above all perhaps, Group, make a series of proposals in a memoran- when one country floats its currency and the dum which he tells us has already been tabled. others do not it makes it difficult, to say the f can assure the members of his Group that this least, to orgânise the common financing of our memorandum wilt be studied very carefutly by Community budget. the Socialist Group. Moreover, it is obvious that a u/eak or a bad I was full of admiration for the enthusiasm-not economic situation in arry one member country that of a beginner-running through his address. cannot be to the advantage of any other mem- I am fully prepared to admit that members of bers who enjoy a strong econo,mic position. If the European Parliament, some of whom have we are to survive at aII we must consider the been in office for nearly fifteen years, may per- picture as a whole. Unless we do we are in for haps have lost some of their enthusiasm for the an unfortunate period. I do not know whether part played by this Assembly. Perhaps we have this is the policy of the Group, but I myself not made the fullest use of the powers conferred believe that progress in economic and monetary upon us by the Treaty. But in our defence I policy must go hand in hand. It is no good would poiat out that the initiatives we have thinking that if we get monetary agreement taken have not always been put into effect. that, by itself, will last for long without a com- Sometimes, the result has even been the opposite mon economic policy. It stands out a mile that of our wishes. it will not. I see Mr Haferkamp nodding. That is therefore I do not wish to forget the position on budgetary the moral we ought all to draw. suggest that po!,üers and a number of other points adopted I all that is really necessary is for the ministers by this Parliament in 1965 which resulted in the to abide in all these matters the programme Luxembourg Agreements, which have long held by which they themselves their up the development of the Community. laid down in October communiqué. If they do this and meet It is my hope that the presence of new members the deadlines they have set themselves, by the among us, and particularly the presence of new end of 1973 we shall be on the road to a definite men in the Council of Ministers, will create a union of some kind. Nothing will prevent us. different political climate and a new political The question is whether they will or can. I will vis-à-vis the European Parliament. If this suggest that they cannot unless they are pre- happens, we in the Socialist Group wiII be pared to adopt-we need not call them supra- particularly pleased, because our political will national techniques rif the word is felt to be is to build Europe. unfortunate-certain Community techniques (Applause) without which no agreement can be reached. I come now to the institutions. This is rather President. I call Lord Gladwyn who will like the chicken and the egg. But however speak for the- Liberal and Allies Group. much we may desire to make the institutions work and introduce all kinds of reforms, it will be difficult if not impossible to do this unless Lord Gladwyn. Mr President, col- - my dear we have at least laid the basis for a cornmon leagues. I am not sure that I am really author- economic and monetary policy. ised to speak in the name of the Liberal Group since, as I arrived for the first time yesterday Some of my colleagues have already deviated aftennoon, I have hardly had time to make any a little from Mr Haferkamp's report and per- contact with it. But I suspect that what I am haps I may be allowed a few minutes to discuss about to say in regard to the excellent and certain general points. The moment when this Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 1973 35

Lord Gladvr'yn

Parliament has become, for the first time, could legitimately and even profitably be overwhelmingly representative of Western exercised. Arrd this is only half the picture. The Europe, thereby ending the appalling schisms, function of this Parliament should, above all, whether religious, national or political, which be hortatory and provocative. It is here that have disrupted our Continent for over 400 years the parties can best advance their views. It is is less an occasion for rejoicing than for solemn here that far-reaching and even revolutionary dedication. We must all remember that the concepts can best be discussed and ventilated. battle for real Western European unity is by no It is here that basic political philosophies, rang- means over, by no means. In reality it has ing from the completely directed to the comple- hardly begun. tely free-for-all, can best be freely debated.

The skin of unity which has happily been As a newcomer I do not venture to criticise stretched over the schisms is still pretty thin what has already been accomplished here. It in places. will be some time before I have learned the ropes and feel qualified to intervene in any It is true that Council of Ministers at its Octo- major debate. I shall seek first to learn from ber Summit Meeting celebrated the forthcoming those who have long been labouring in the event by laying down a ,prograrrune which, if viaeyard. f am honoured to be present on this abided by, must lead to some kind of political great occasion as a British Li,beral, ,as a member unity by the end of the decade. Yet in ,so doing of the one party which has consistently sup- the Governments harüy made the required ported the European idea in Britain. I shall do impact on the hearts and minds of the people. my best to justify the hopes of that party in Somehow or other official propaganda usually this great Assembly of which I am now happily fails to strike the right note. a menaber. (Applause) In our Western countries there has for centuries been the underlying feeling that, whereas President. you. governments are inevitable and may be good or - Thank I call Sir Brandon bad-pioue, gooerno ladro as the Italian Rhys-rùr'iliams who ivill speak for the Conser- vative Group. peasants used to say, "It is all the fault of the bloody Government"-the people iastinctively need some body in which their feelings can Sir Brandon Bhys-Williams. It is a particular come up from below and not be stifled ,as they honour for me to be called- upon to speak on so often appear to be in some vast bureaucratic behalf of the Conservative Group in this machine. important debate on this historic day, and I think that all the members of my Group would And, of come, we have such a body in our wish me to begin by congratulating Mr Hafer- national assemblies. kamp on his admirably lucid and eomprehensive survey of the European economic prospects for Now, if the Ministers are sincere and I believe 1973. they are, in declaring that they wish to establish a real union in only eight years from now, it \{e have to look forward to 1g?3 with serious is obvious that the new entity must possess a anxiety about inflation, but perhaps with two parliament which has an increasing ability to particular grounds for optimism at the same question the actions of Ministers and officials time. Our concern over inflation arises from the and in the last resort to approve or disapprove fact that it seems to be out of control in projected policies. If some or all of the proce virtually all the countries of the Community. dural reforms proposed by my friend and col- Some months ago the French Government made league, Peter Kirk, are adopted, an important the admirable suggestion that some multilateral step in this direction-but not the only one- action might be taken to combat inflation, but will have been taken. Nor should this frighten so far I personally have only seen suggestions ministers. In all our countries ministers demo- for multilateral action against inflation of a cratically represent a majority of the population. restrictive character. The suggestions would It is scarcely likely that the policies agreed either have the effect of restricting employment unanimously, or as some of us would prefer, and consumption or of restricting investment. certainly in my Group, by near unanimity, could It seems to me that fighting inflation is sti[ or would be reversed by a parliament equally mainly a matter for national Governments. representative of such majorities. The British Government tomorrow are going to The point is that the voice of all the Oppositions announce the second phase of its programme could at least be heard and there might be for direct action to combat inflation. We have occasions on which the power of the parliament enjoyed the very broad support of the British Debates of the European Parliament

Slr Branilon Rhys-Iilllllams

public in the measures that the British Govern- However, it has very big problems to tackle. ment have introduced in the last few months to It has to come to conclusions about the future restrict u/ages and price movements. I think we rôle of gold. It has to come to csnclusions about can be optimistic that the action that has been the future rôle of SDRs. The Morse Committee taken will prove successful in the United King- has to consider the provision of a system of dom in the same way as similar measures have extending aid to developing countries on capital . proved effective in the United States. But the account; and it has also to consider the situation of the British economy is very different appropriate mechanism for determining the from the American, in that inflation has been timing and extent of parity changes. These are all caused latterly in Britain not only by wage very big problems indeed, and I think that only settlements going far beyond anything we a very wild optimist would hope that the Group might have hoped for in the way of increases of Twenty would be able to complete its deliber- in productivity, but by the fact that the British ations in time to come back to the Fund meet- economy is also especially susceptible to changes ing in Nairobi in September with specific recom- in import prices. mendations.

In recent months, indeed particularly in recent This brings me to the other particular recent rü/eeks, prices of British imports have gone up event to which we can look back in Europe with in a way which has undoubtedly given serious pride and which gives us grounds for optimism grounds for anxiety in Britain. I am sure, there- in 1973. I am referring to the Summit Con- fore, that all present here will understand the ference of last October. The Heads of States or reason why the British Government have Governments set Europe a hectic timetable for thought it prudent to delay the announcement eventual union by 1980. In the economic field of the return to a fixed parity for sterling. The the Summit Conference took two significant British Government are determined to take no decisions. One was to adopt the formula in premature action which would be likely to regard to parity changes, that parities should damage confidence, particularly among British in future be fixed but adjustable. Debate has, investors. I am sure that we are right to follow of course, already arisen as to the precise mean- the policy of expanding productivity and putting ing of the "fixed but adjustable" formula. Some that first and foremost. To do that we must people are inclined to want the parities to be encourage investment. Perhaps it is a reasonable fixed and others are more disposed to think of slogan to say that our objective is to invest our them as adjustable. I hope personally that we way out of inflation. shall not revert to the old system of fixed parities which was the downfall of Bretton On the more optimistic side rù/e can look back Woods, under which parity changes v/ere with satisfaction to the part that European delayed for far too long and when they took countries played in the meetings of the Inter- effect were of much too great a magnitude. We national Monetary Fund last December. If I must civilise the procedure for parity changes. might strike a personal note, I had the honour f am sure our first objective must be to limit to be invited to be present at the International their extent. I hope it will become the normal Monetary Fund meeting, and I was told that it thing for changes in parity to be of not more was the first time that a European Member of than 2 per cent or perhaps 3 per cent at a time, Parliament had been invited in the capacity so that they have no more disturbing effect on of representative of one of the European investment and markets than perhaps a change assemblies. This, of course, is only a very small in bank rate would have in the rlifferent major straw in the wind, but I think that the fact that financial centres. an invitation rilas extended to me as rapporteur for economic affairs of the Council of Europe The other significant decision which came from indicates that there is an increasing readiness to the Summit Conference, and which u/as referred accept Europe as a single unit in world to by Vice-President Haferkamp, was the setting monetary affairs. up of the European Fund for Monetary Cooper- ation-perhaps the principal of the recornmen- The IMF meeting was held in a remarkably dations made in tJle historic 'W'erner Report. I constructive spirit, and I am sure the appoint- was delighted to hear him say, as I understood ment of the Group of Twenty, with Jeremy him, that we might expect specific proposals for Morse as chairman-the Morse Committee, as the European Monetary Fund as soon as next it is now called-was a very satisfactory out- week. Indeed, we have to get on if we are to set come. No doubt we can look forward with con- up this fund and have it in,operation by lst April. fidence to the recommendations which the However, I feel some misgivings about the future Group of Twenty will eventually come forward of this fund. We shall have to be extremely care- with. ful because there are naturally in national Gov- Sitting of Tuesday,,16 January 1g?B 37

§ir Branilon Rhys-Wi[tams

ernments and in national central banks, people President. I call Mr Triboulet wtr,o will speak who are not enthusiastic that this fund should for the European- Democratic Union Group. have too much pov/er, at any rate in its first stages. \lt/ill it be just a gadget to intervene and to provide Mr Triboulet. (fl mechanism to facilitate monthly multila- - Mr President, my dear teral settlements in order to make the snake in colleagues, the European Democratic Union the tunnel glide a little more smoothly ? Or will Group listened with great interest to the report it be-still worse-just another lunch club by Mr Haferkamp on the economic situation in for central bankers ? the Community in 1972 and the forecasts for 1973. Mr Harferkamp referred to the concept of I have confidence that this fund can succeed. tradition. He stated that he was making a tradi- The reason for my confidence is that we have tional report, and he paid cordial tribute to his done it before. Europe did this 20 years ago, in eminent predecessor, Mr Barre. the setting up of the European Payments Union. This concept I regret that that European Pa5rments Union was of tradition is not of a kind to cause misgivings wound up prematurely when it sti[ had so much to new arrivals in this Parlia- more work to do. This new European Monetary ment, whether British, Irish or Danish. Nor does Fund, in my opinion, should have a substantial it hold any fears for me, a Norman. Indeed, we backing of real money. I know that this is Mr. believe that tradition is the foundation on which 'W'erner's \à/e progress, personal opinion, too. At present the can build and that there can be no progress figures that have been mentioned as to the size real which is not rooted in our heritage. of the Fund indicate that there will be barely This tradition of a yearly economic report should sufficient for it to carry out its month-to-month be continued, and I think that our colleague technical operations. Then,. too, it must have an Peter does not seek his proposals effective supervisory board. The personalities Mr Kirk in to cause us to abandon those aspects of our on its board, must be real and recognisable parliamentary procedure which are recognised people, not simply the nominees central of as valid. bankers with no personal authority or status. There has been talk of the fight against inflation. Thirdly, the European Fund must solve the I am in fuII agreement with Mr Haferkamp when problem European of the numéraire. This, too, he says that is on what does this field believe it it in I is not too difficult because it was that the European Economic Community and, to solved 20 years ago in the constitution of the use an ugly word current in France just now, European Payments Union. I believe that it ought our be judged. To put in to have "crédibilité," will it really specific statutes and automatic rather more orthodox terms, whether we inspire rules for dealing with the majority of foreseeable confidence will depend on the degree to which eventualities. As a body should it also have the \rye are able to master inflation. necessary status to guide national Governments in such matters as the policy which they adopt We are convinced that this requires discipline on controls of short-term capital movements, on by Europe as a whole, and this must be based money supply policy and, most important of all, on a political will for a European solution. This parity on changes. wiII was shown by our Governments at the recent Summit, and if it was not already present I said that the Summit Conference gave us a here, the speeches by the representatives of the programme hectic until 1980. Indeed, we have new Member States seem to have rekinüed it in before us a very exacting programme for lg?8. this Parliament itself. Vice-President Haferkamp spoke on extremely 'W'e realistic lines. I personnaly was much reassured are a1l determined to build Europe but, at by his grasp and pragmatism. the same time, we have our backs to the wall. How is European economic action to be mobilized The Conservative Group will have pleasure in against inflation? It is on this point that I must cooperating with our new parliamentary col- express some reservation on the speech by Sir leagues in this busy and important year of 19ZB Brandon Rhys-\Milliams, who stated that the and also in working together with members of struggle against inflation is primarily the concern the Commission. of national Governments. This is true, admittedly, and each of our countries has its plans \ile must work together to solve the problems to beat inflation. But for a number of reasons, of the detailed practical and steps which will which I will enumerate very briefly, separate take us nearer to the ideal of economic union in action by individual nations risks failure if it 1980. is not coordinated. It is therefore necessary to (Applause) plan and act in concert at European level. Debates of the Errropean Parliament lHboulet

Let us first consider budgetary policy. The first Fund. But this success is due to the fact that, phase of Economic and Monetary Union entails after several years' preparation, Europeans concerted action on budgetary matters' This has presented a colTunon front on monetary matters, been in operation for two years in the Six and, I must acknowledge the worth of what has been we believe that there will be no difficulty in done in this connection by the Commission, the its being continued by the Nine. Council of Ministers and the Parliament: effork have been made for some years past to prepare It is right that the budgets of our individual for Economic and Monetary Union. The task, I countries should be inspired by the same prin- realise, is both formidable and arduous. But we ciples regarding the importance attributed to have been able to make a start on it only because investments, consumption, etc. fn short, there is we have been making our preparations for it for priorities. a need for harmony in our budgetary so long. Nevertheless, there has been some evi- been If I say this, it is because we have long dence of unity among usi on these matters in the convinced that the building of Europe is much fnternational Monetary Fund. less a problem of institutions than one of political will. It is too easy to speak of Europe: do what How can we suppose ourselves able to master I say, do not do what I do ! In fact we will not the monetary aspect of inflation solely by build Europe unless we say: do what I do national measures, when, as we alI know, much myself ! Therefore, if we are to fight against of the problem concerns controlling floating inflation, it is essential that we lead by the currencies and the Euro-dollar market and the example of a concerted European action. degree to which ule can persuade the United Stàtes of America that the policy of internal I was pleased and gratified to hear Mr Hafer- stabilisation, which they have applied success- kamp quoting the French plan for stabilisation fully with much courage and skill, must be and recognising that it was in line with European accômpanied by external action to achieve the recommendations; but it is with some regret that r"rn" ài*t and facilitate the fight against infla- I heard him add that there vr'as a sector in which tion by their European partners? They also European action has caused him some disappoint- must be able to saY: do what I do! ment, namely the dismantling of customs barriers and the introduction of generalised preferences. The situation is therefore still very difficult. This is where the inadequacy of individual Showing considerable restraint, Mr Haferkamp nations' measures against inflation becomes refrained from referring to the monetary vicissi- apparent : whenever the issue of the dismantling tudes we have experienced. Indeed, 1972 was not of customs barriers arises, it involves powerful a particularly satisfactory year on the monetary partners like the United States and it must be front: one need only mention the pressure to said that-as Mr Haferkamp is well awar*'it which the mark, the lira and sterling in turn has not been lack of cooperation by Europe have been subjected. which has held up the process, but as everyone these factors, which further complicate our knows, the attitude of the United States. All task, perhaps warrant a comment from which, How could we discuss custom§ arrangements without dwelling overmuch on the past' a lesson with the United States of America on equal terms for the future may be drawn. as individual countries? A concerted European This lesson for the future seems to me a simple approach is absolutely essential. one, and I shall conclude with it. \Me at the Very recently the Commission replied to one of European Parliament must speak for our peoples our colleagues that the various measures, notably in urging the national Governments to take the DISC fiscal provisions, proposed to Congress, European action to achieve Economic and Mone- "were not in conformity with the commitments tary Union and the specific objectives which entered into by the United States on export- the Summit Conference set. These can only be subsidies under the General Agreement on attained if each obstacle is surmounted through Tariffs and Trade." this common political will. Consequently, if we wish to right the position The institutional problems will be solved as a with America, it is essential, irrespective of our result. I was pleased to hear Mr Haferkamp say national desires to fight against inflation, that that these will only be dealt with as and when we unite our forces, and the Community is the practical problems ari§e, and not merely on the ideal framework for discussions of this nature. basis of theory or quasi-theological wrangling- only in the light of the difficulties we meet on rvVhat I have just said is clearly even more true our path. of monetary matters. Sir Brandon Rhys-Wil- liams has expressed satisfaction upon what has The French Government has displayed this been achieved by the International Monetary political will for many years, and although there Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 1973 39

Triboulet have been disagreements on doctrine, in terms which have a part to play and which are of of action, it has always worked towards the account in Europe. building of Europe, as has the European Demo- great cratic Union-as those of our colleagues who \ü'e, for example, are a political force in have known us for many years will bear witness. western Europe. In Italy and France v/e number A new party of workers for Europe has arrived in our ranks the greater part, the la'rge majority we among us today. With them vr'e are certain of of the workers. And yet in this Parliament late, achieving success. Italian Communists made our entry very as our other colleagues who sit there very well (Applause) know. Even today, however, four years after our entry, we are not recognized as a political group; President. I caII on Madame lotti. we have not, that is to say, the same rights as - the members of the Parliament who belong to other political movements. Mme lotti. (I) Mr President, honoured collea- all gues, - Vice-President Haferkamp drew attention It is not only a question of the Communists. to some of the most serious problems-and not Behind our party, in ltaly, France and other only of an economic nature-which afflict Eu- countries belonging to the Community, small rope: price-rises, the situations and the struc- though they may be, immense forces of workers tural factors which come into play, regional are gathering. And their voice must make itself policies, not to mention monetary and economic heard if we want to solve either the political policies. problems of building up the European Com- munity or the economic problems referred to These are problems character of a and scope by the colleagues who have taken part in the which makes their solution impossible without proceedings, albeit in such high-flown terms. the intervention of the broad masses of the workers of Europe, since without the latter no rüy'e 'contribution therefore pose the question of constructing valid can be made to the progress a European Parliament that will be a mirror for and the civilisation of our continent. I ask myself Europe, for the peoples of Europe, and accord- with the utmost frankness: what is the use of ingly a fundamental element in the "re-found- our Parliament's debates? They represent nothing" of the European Community, if you will ing more than a recommendation. And in saying allow me to use that expression. this, it is not so much to the Commission, Mr Haferkamp, that I am speaking, as to the In the second place let us emphasize-I would Council of the European Communities. say as a consequence of the first factor-the necessity of extending the porü/ers of the After listening this morning our English 'We to European Parliament. are in agreement that colleague who spoke here for the time, we first the powers of the European Parliament should feel-even if we belong different to a very to some extent be considered in the context of party-that we completely support his assertion: the maximum possible exercise of those which namely that the transformation the European of are laid down by the Treaty of Rome. But there Parliament into a real Parliament with a major- to be found are powers of control over the acti- ity and an opposition, and with powers of initia- vities of the Commission and over the Commu- tive and decision, is indeed the last hope for the nity's Council of Ministers, which should become construction of a Europe which would not be the function of the European Parliament if we based only on the interests of the big controlling want to avoid a situation where only the execu- groups, but in which the broad masses of the tive is empowered to take decisions having a fun- workers European Community would in the damental bearing the lives the peoples of participate. on of Europe, without the control by popular sover- This is certainly the big political problem that eignty which is the basis for democracy in all we all face: changing into a real Parliament. We our countries. want here put to once more-as u/e have done rWe so many times in the past-two questions which Italian Communists-if I may be allowed to make point constitute the crux of the matter politically, as this in the European Parliament- far as advancing towards European unity is have adopted within the international concerned. Communist movement a very clearly defined position regarding the enlargement of the In the first place, it is necessary that the parlia- Community. Our colleagues here perhaps know ment, to use the expression of a great 19th- that on this subject of the enlargement we have century English constitutionalist, becomes,'the absta,ined, and have explained in the Italian mirror of the country"; that is to. say, a mirror Parliament the reasons which have led us, with of Europe that reflects all the political forces deep conviction, to adopt such an attitude. \Me 40 Debates of the European Parliament fotti believe that today the Community is a reality I would like to finish by deploring the fact that which cannot be left out of consideration. Iil'e the European Parliament, which for good or ill also believe that it is necessary to encourage- represents the peoples of Europe, has found no and in our opinion the enlarged Community will way of making its voice heard at a time like this. be better able to do this than its predecessor-a From the Parliament of a Europe which nonethe- process of European autonomy, and thus to less knows what bombardments mean, since all participate in the formation of a political entity of us lived through the tragedy of the last war, embracing the whole world. Fina1ly, we believe and saw the face of our country destroyed by that on a worldwide scale, commercial compe- bombs, in smoking ruins, not one single voice tition and the war which is being fought on that was raised in regret. We believe that as a result level and which seems to be a distinctive feature we have failed not only in a duty towards of our epoch, make it necessary that Europe humanity and justice, but also in precisely our should also increase the scope of its development, political obligation to the peoples of Europe. and play a more active role iJ it wishes its voice to be listened to. These are some of the motives I trust that from this Parliament may emerge for our abstention, but we are also highly critical at least the wish that the end of the war will of the way in which the Community functions' come as soon as possible, and that as soon as possible ignominiously inasmuch as there has been no participation in all that has been so the of all the its construction by the broad masses of the destroyed may be rebuilt with aid peoples; particular the aid the people, whose interests-or at least those which and in with of peoples have suffered so much can be called their fundamental interests-have European which the martyrised country of been ignored. from war; so that Vietnam may finally have the right to live, after so many years. W'e have also abstained because-looking forward to the Parliament to which I have President. I call Mr Brewis. alluded-we intend to fight here to transform - this European realit;r. \Me Italian Communists- (E) wish I could speak as beauti- in our capacity as Communists consider that it is Mr Brewis. - I necessary to participate in the reality from the futly as the previous speaker, Mrs Iotti. I think inside in order to modify it in the interests of the Mr Kirk, my leader, will be very interested to workers; to ignore it is not in accordance with know that the proposals contained in his speech our principles. this morning are finding a reflection in the Ita- lian Communist Party. I think I can also say that I agree with the comments of the honou- For this reason-in this Parliament and likewise rable lady concerning the British Labour Party. in the ltalian Parliament-comrade Amendola, who is absent today orl account of important Vice-President Haferkamp was right in refer- engagements, has more than once stressed our ring us to the problem of inflation, to which we criticism, even if a fraternal one, of. the position must give the maximum priority. Taking the of the British socialists whose absence from this nine countries of our Community, only Belgium Assembly deprives the working masses of has achieved a record of less than 6 per cent Europe of their support in the construction of a inflation, which all of us must admit is much too new Europe of a communal character. high. In Britain the rate last year was lyz per cent, somewhat better than a year before but good have To conclude, Mr President, honoured colleagues, not nearly enough. Our Government wage inflation; may I be allowed to draw attention to a problem taken active measures to control touched on here by the Chairman of the Socialist but, as the Vice-President said, there are many Group, Mr Vals. None of us in this Assembly can other causes of inJlation apart from wage infla- can faii to be gladdened by the news of the cessation tion. Some of those causes I am sure vle of the American bombardments over the whole cooperate on as a European Community. of the territory of Vietnam, this country which There is, example, the need control the has now been martyrised for to for more than twenty money supply. There is the possibility of making years. These came to an end after the ringing tariff cuts. There is the need for anti-monopoly protests of peoples and governments against the legislation, which can increase competition and ignominy of the bombardments of the cities of thus prices. There is suggesion North Vietnam. say lower also a that I "ignominy" even if the farm prices might be controlled, although with term is a very strong one. But consider we that the memory of wartime black markets I do not from a moral point of view and political from a think that would be a wise move. point of view what has happened recently in that martyrised land cannot be categorised in any In Britain we seek an acceleration of economic other way. growth to mop up the excessive unemplo5rment. Sitting of Tuesday, 16 January 1973 4l

Brewls

I am very glad to say that economic indicators policy. It must be an integrated policy so that show a rate of growth in 1973 of about 5 per unfair competition between national induce- cent, which is more than we have enjoyed in ments is avoided. It will be an expensive poücy previous years. Our accession to the Community because even a 20 per cent differential between is confidently expected to improve our economic the central and peripheral regions may well performance as v/e move to economic union and not be enough. monetary union. We need to co-ordinate later to welcome the appointment of my old colleague We should I our policy in several spheres. Thompson as the new Regional probably have a policy to stabilise certain Mr George Commissioner. I hope very much that with the industries which are of interest to the regions. cooperation of Vice-President Haferkamp such I refer particularly to the shipbuilding iadustry strong regional policy will soon become a perhaps to aircraft manufacturing and a and also reality. the machine tool industry. Economic union can have a harmful effect on President. I call Mr Lôhr. the prosperity of the regions. Long ago we used - to have a Ê Scots which used to float against Mr Lôhr. (Rapporteur for the Economtc AfJairs the Ê sterling used in England. When the two Committee). (D) Mr President. In speaking countries of England and Scotland became as the reporter- on the problems which concern united the Ê sterling became the national cur- your Economic Affairs Committee, I should like rency and the classic remedy of devaluation to confine myself to one observation. was no longer available. It may well be that the emigration of many thousands of Scotsmen At its sittings on 1 and 2 February the Economic all over the world may have its roots in the lack Affairs Committee will probably, or so at any the of a regional poücy in those days. We agree as rate I hope, discuss with Mr Haferkamp, a country with the use of agricultural funds to Vice-President, the comprehensive report which soften the difficulties of those leaving the land. he submitted today to this Parliament, and This process in fact has been largely completed report on it to this Parliament at its February in the United Kingdom, though the pains caused sittings in Luxembourg. potato by such old events as the lrish famiae Permit me to add one further comment: I find it the and the Highland clearances are still felt by beyond my capacity, Mr Vice-President, to deal descendents of those displaced over a century appropriaiely with the many problems touched ago. upon in your observations. I believe that we on the committee, to Here would make a special observation. In shall have an opportunity, I the causes of the economic the remoter parts of my country it is go thoroughly into some of thus arrive at a common now necessary to give subsidies to keep people discrepancies and policY. on the land and to prevent a region such as economic the Highlands and Islands becoming a semi- For this reason I would prefer-and I speak for desert. my Political Group-to abstain from making any further comments at this stage' f am anxious that the problem of restructuring the former industrial areas should not be lost (Applause) sight of. I know that is a serious problem in Mr President, I should parts of Belgium and also to some extent in Mr Habib-Deloncle. - France. In industrial Scotland-and lve are Iike to speak on a point ,of order. an industrial country-the rundown of traditional industries has been very rapid' There President. I call Mr Habib-Deloncle. has been a decline in mining and quarrying - of over 50 per cent in a short, l0-year, period. Habib-Deloncle. (F) I do not think, Mr In textiles the rundown has been 27 per cent Mr - and in shipbuilding it has been about 25 per President, that it would be right for the Parlia- cent. ment of the Nine to break the rules laid down by the Bureau at its first sitting. It was decided Many new industries have come in. We are several part-sessions ago that sittings would be nour a very large centre, for example, for the adjourned at six p.m. to enable groups to meet. electronics industry, and the oil discoveries in My Group had arranged a meeting for six p.m. the North Sea will also be of great help to the It is now five past six and you will note that I economy. Nevertheless the introduction of new am the only member of this Group present. iadustries is a very expensive process. Iffe feel that the obverse side of the coin of economic There was a time when, in the interests of the integration is a strong and vigorous regional debate, we sought an extension of the sitting Debates of the European Parliament

Eabib-Deloncle

and Mr Lücker was strongly opposed to this at Continuation of the debate on oral report the time, and rightly, stating that the rules fixed - by the Commission of the European Commun- by Parliament should be adhered to. I know ities on the economic situation in the that there are reasons against a night sitting Community tonight, since we have other commitments, but I Oral No. 19/72, with debate, by am obliged to ask Parliament to adhere to the - Question rules, while expressing my apologies to Mr Ha- Mr Glinne on behalf of the Socialist Group ferkamp, whose report was not originally ex- of the European Parliament to the Commis- sion the European Communities the pected to be followed by a debate. I was among of on Franco-Polish Economic Cooperation Agree- those in the parliamêntary Bureau who asked ment and observance of the undertaking by that there should be a debate, but it was agreed EEC Member States to consult each other on that this debate should not encroach upon the foreign matters time set aside for the groups and would termi- trade nate at six o'clock. Consequently I ask that the - Interim report by Mr Ballardini, on behalf agenda should be complied with and that the of the Committee on Energy, Research and sitting should now be adjourned. Atomic Problems, on the establishment of Community structures for the permanent President. You are quite right. If a Group storage of radioactive rù/aste @oc. 217172) meeting is -scheduled, an adjournment is in or- Report by Mr Giraudo, on behalf of the Poli- der. - tical Affairs Committee, on procedures for Does the Commission of the European Commu- involving the European Parliament in the nities desire that the completion of this discus- conclusion of trade agreements between the sion should be put at the beginning of tomor- Community and non-member States @oc' row's agenda ? 226172) Report by Mr Noé, on behalf of the Transport Mr llaferkamp. Vice-President of th,e Comrni.s- - Committee, on the proposal from the Com- si,on of the Communities. - (F) Yes Mr President, mission of the European Communities to the as the discussion could be brief. Council (Doc. L34172) for a decision on the first measures of a common approach to air President. I propose that this debate be con- transport (Doc. 195/72) tinued tomorrow- morning. Does any member object ? It is so decided. Report by Mr Memmel, on behalf of the Legal - Affairs Committee, on the addition of a Rule 47 (a) to the Rules of Procedure introducing a question time in the European Parliament 16. Agenda of the neæt sitti,ng. followed by a debate if so requested and on an outline implementing procedure Fresident. The next sitting will take place (Doc.252172) tomornow -\[ednesday, 17 January 1973 with the following agenda: at 10 a.m. and 3 p.m. (The sitti,ng was closed at 6.05 p.m.) Sitting of \ilednesday, 17 January 1973 43

SITTING OF WEDNESDAY, 17 JANUARY 1973

Contents

1. Adopti,on of the mtnutes l. Oral Questioz No. 19172 uitll d.ebute: Franco-Polish, Economic Cooperation Mr Houdet, Chai,rraan of the Commit- Agreement tee on Agri,culture, Mr Kriedenlann' Mr Lange, Mr Houdet, Mr Lange, Mr Mr Kriedernann, Sâr Chri,stoPher Kriedemann, Mr Berkho'ttu)er, Chai'r' Soarnes, Vi,ce-Presi,dent oJ the Com- man of the Li,beral and Allies GrouP, misston oJ the European Communiti'es, Mr Haferkam,p, Vi,ce-President of the Mr Baas, for the Liberal and AllLes Commtsnon of th,e European Com- Group, Mr d,e la Malène, for the Euro- muniti,es, Mr Berkhoutoer, Mr Hafer' pean Democrati,c Union Group, Mr kamp, Mr Kri,ed,em,ann, Mr Houdet, Giraud, Mr Kried,ernann, Sir Chnsto- Mr Haf erkamp, Mr Houdet, Mr CiPolla 44 pher Soames .... 67

2. Change in agenda 48 8. Resignation of a Member of the Euro- pean Parliament 3. Letter Mr Barre, Vice- from former Mr Oele 73 Prendent of the Commissr.on 48

9. lnuoluement oJ Paùiament in conclu- 4, Documents receiued 48 non oJ comrnercial, agreements tui'th, non-Member Stqtes. Discussion of a Statement bg the Commtssion on the report bg Mr Giraudo, drausn up on situation i,n the Communitg economic behal.t th.e Political Affairs Com- (continued) of mi,ttee. Mr Giraudo, Chairman of the Mr Di,ch,, Mr REan, Mr Bersani,, Sir Poli,ti.cal Affai,rs Committee, Si,r TUJ- Anth,ony Esrnonde, Mr Cruise-O' Brt en, ton Beamish, for the Conseruatiue Mr Cousté, Mr Petersen, Mr Lange, Group, Mr Baas, for the Li,beral and Chairman of the Economi'c Affai'rs Allies Group, Mr de la Malène, Si,r Committee, Mr Hat erkamp, Vice-Pr e- Clt ristopher Soames, V i,ce-Pr endent of stdent of th,e Comrnission of the Euro- the Commi,snon of the European Com- pean Communities 49 munr,ties ReJerence to committee .... 59 Reference to committee .... 74

6. Establtshment oJ a Communitg net- 10. Dectsion orl a corlflùon approach to at'r u:ork for the storage of rad.i'oactiue transport. Di,scussi.on of a report by waste Mr Noè, drawn up on behalf of the Transport Committee. Mr Noè, rappor- Discussion of a report bg Mr Ballar- teur, Mr Jahn lor the Christian Demo- clraton up on beh,alt of the Com- dini, crati,c Group, Mr Oele, lor the Soci,ali,st mittee on Eneryg, Research and Group, Mr Guldberg, for the Li,beral Atomic Problems and Allies Group, Mr James Hi.ll tor Mr Ballardini, rapporteur, Mr Vande- the Conseraatiue Group, Mr Cousté, uiele, draJtsmanfor optnion, Mr Sprin- for the European Dernocrattc Union gorurl, for the Christian Democratic Group Group, Lord Bessborough, Mr Cifa- Mr Scarascia Mugnozza, Vice-Prest- relli,, Mr Spinelli, Commi,sstoner, Mr d.ent oJ th,e Comrnission of the Euro- Ballardini, çtean Communiti,es, Mr Cousté Adoption of the motion f or a resolution 59 Procedural moti,on 44 Debates of the European Parliament

Mr Oele, Chairm,an of the Tranrport 12. Teæts of. agreements receiued, Jrom Cornm,ittee, Mr Noè the Counci,l 92 Postponernent of discusnon on th.e motion for a resoluti,on . . 78 13. Agenda for the neæt sitti,ng

LL. Change i.n the agend,a 91 Mr Memrnel 92

IN THE CHAIR: MR HOUGARDY we wish to express our opinion so that it can Vice-President deal with it itself, we must do so during the present part-session.

(The sitting usas oçteneil at 10.05 a.m,) For this reason, Mr President, I request that, in accordance with the provisions of the temporary President. The sitting is open. agenda, Mr Briot's interim report on the pro- - posed regulation for alcohol be placed on the agenda for our sitting tomorrow or Friday.

7. Adoption of the rninutes This is what I wish to say, Mr President.

President. The minutes of yesterday's sitting President. I call Mr Kriedemann. have been -distributed. - Are there any courments? Mr Kriedemann. (D) Mr President, I regret that I must contradict- the üstinguished Chair- I call Mr Houdet. man of the Committee on Agriculture. The fact is that we recently decided that we would Mr Etroudet, Chairtnan of the Commi,ttee on not revert to resolutions once they had been Agri,culture. (F) Mr President, first I must adopted, more especially resolutions which apologise for- speaking at a time which may affect the agenda. Yesterday it was formally not seern appropriate. I should have made this resolved to delete this interim report, and I do comment yestenday when the House discussed not consider it possible for us to resolve the the agenda of the present part-session, but at the contrary to-day. Moreover, f cannot imagine time I was busy on the Committee for Finance when the political groups would be able to and Budgets. devote themselves once again to this extremely complicated plan. I would therefore ask that The Committee on Agriculture instructed me yesterday's resolution should stand and that we yesterday evening to speak duriag the adoption should not deal with this interim report at this of the minutes determining the agenda for this sitting. I repeat: it was thus resolved yesterday, sitting. and the reasons for it were also explained. The interim report on the organisation of the President. I caII Mr Lange. market for alcohol of agricultural origin v/as on - the agenda of this sitting. At the request of one of our colleagues, this report has been deleted Mr Lange. (D) Mr President, Ladies and from the agenda and postponed sine die. On Gentlemen, for- reasons of fairness I should like behalf of the Committee on Agriculturg I wish to inform the üstinguished Chairman of the to protest against this decision. Committee on Agriculture as follows:

Indeed, this proposal was referred to us by the The impression seems to have arisen in the Council of Ministers as long ago as last April. Committee on Agriculture that it had been Our Committee on Agriculture and other com- attacked by the proposal of the rapporteur of mittees to whom it was referred for an opinion the Economic Affairs Committee to delete this have examined it fully or partially. interim report of Mr Briot from the agenda for the reasons mentioned above. Yesterday, before In the Committee on Agriculture, we decided not the plenary sitting opened, as I could not contact to examine it fuiiy but merely to give a general the Chairman of the Economic Affairs Com- opinion, since during its sitting on 19 December mittee, I had informed one of his Vice-Chairmen last the Council of Ministers decided to deal with of the intention to submit this proposal for the this project at the end of January. If, therefore, deletion of Mr Briot's interim retriort. To that Sitting of Srednesday, 1? January 1973 45

Lange extent the Economic Affairs Committee has I would therefore again request, Mr President, done what it could to inform the Committee on in accordance with the mandate given to me by Agriculture. I share Mr Kriedemann's opinion the Committee on Agriculture, that this matter that the resolution agreed to yesterday must be reinstated on the agenda for tomorrow or the stand, since we, the Economic Affairs Committee, day after. will have to discuss not only the Commission's proposal, but also the interim report of the Com- President. I call Mr Lange. mittee on Agriculture. The latter, basically, has - further aggravated certain questions which con- Mr Lange. (D) I merely wished to inform the cern the industrial sector, so that what the Chairman of- the Committee on Agriculture that Economic Affairs Committee will have to exam- it was not a member of the committee, but its ine thoroughly, in order to express an opinion Vice-Chairman, our colleague Mr Richarts. on both documents, is not only competition, but also prices, etc. We must not pretend that the President. I call Mr Kriedemann. Committee on Agriculture's document as an - interim report is an answer to the Commission's Mr Kriedem (D) Mr President,.even if we proposal. It is, per se, a nevr document, and this had a majority to change yesterday's resolu- fully justifies yesterday's resolution. tion, the attitude of myself and my Group would be that vre are not in a position to take part in President. Ladies and Gentlemen, in view of the debate, because we could not deal with the the size of -our agenda and so as not to prolong matter. Mr Lange has already drawn attention this incident, I shall be glad if you will allow to this; perhaps some of you did not realize this. your President to read you the terms of the An attempt is being made, for the purpose of decision of the Bureau of 14 and 15 September settling an agricultural question, to intervene on last year, which was announced at the sitting a wide scale in the production and marketing of 12 October 1972: Once approved by the Assem- arrangements, and in the competitiveness, of bly, the agenda may not be changed except for many industrial undertakings. This certainly serious and unforeseeable reasons, on the pro- needs serious consideration, because it is not posal of the president of the sitting, a political merely a question of one market system among group or the representatives of the Commission many. V/e have had our experiences of this. As and Council. However, a majority of two-thirds the Committee on Agriculture could not itself of the votes cast is required if the proposal is solve the matter either, it decided to submit at from a Representative. If rejected, the proposal least an interim report with considerable amend- may not be submitted twice during a single part- ments as compared with the Commission's pro- session. posal. rffe really have adequate time to conclude the debate in the Committee on Agriculture and I read you this text so that you may all be fully then to ask Mr Briot to submit a firm proposal aware how of the debate should be conducted. on which the committees with whom we are I call Mr Houdet. having joint consultations can form a judgment. I adhere to my view that we should stand on the resolution adopted yesterday. Mr trIoudet, Chai,rman of the Commi,ttee on Agri,- culture. (tr') Mr President, there is no question Fresident. I call Mr Berkhouwer. of discussing- this matter fully today. Of course, - if this proposal were to be üscussed before the House, we would have-even within our Com- Mr Berkhoawer, Chai,rman oJ the Liberal and. mittee on Agriculture-opinions which might Alli,es Group. - (N) Mr President, I appreciate di-ffer from the draft resolution which will be what Mr Kriedemann and Mr Lange have said. submitted to us by Mr Briot. But the Chairman However according to my information there is of the Econômic Affairs Committee was good a danger that the Council will make a decision enough to say just now, knowiag that I could on this matter in January. We always maintain not be present, that he had contacted a member that the Council should take decisions only after of the Committee on Agriculture. I believe I am we have been consulted and we must therefore right in saying that this member has not adopted prevent the Council making decisions without any position in regard to the substance, either seeking our opinion. for or against. He has not therefore given the opinion of the Committee on Agriculture. President. I think the matter has now been explained to- the House and that there is nothing Clearly I am to blame, since I should have been to add. there, but I did not foresee this deletion and I was busy on the Committee for Finance and Mr Berkhouwer. (tr') Mr President, I would Budgets where my presence \ryas essential. like to have a reply- to my question. 46 Debates of the European Parliament

President. Mr Berkhouwer, Mr Houdet main- effect will be on the processing industry, which tains his request;- it should be put to the vote. faces world-wide competition, if we take the action recently proposed, over and above what Mr Berkhouwer. - (F) I agree. the Commission has devised. Iffe therefore need time. Fortunately we have it. President. - I repeat, everyone must by now be fully aware of the problem and of what it means President. I call Mr Houdet. in practice. - Mr lloudet, Chairman of the Committee on Mr Berkhouvÿer. - (F) But does everyone know Agriculture.- (tr') Mr President, Mr Haferkamp's and accept that the Council of Ministers might statement is very important. I would like to perhaps decide without our opinion ? read the conclusion of the communique of the Council of Ministers of 19 December: it would President. I call Mr Haferkamp to ansv/er also be advisable to have a discussion for this that question.- purpose in January 1973. As I understand Mr Haferkamp, although he cannot give any Mr Haferkamp, Vice-President of the Commi.s- personal undertaking on behalf of the Council sion of the European Communittes, (D) Mr of Ministers, this decision will be postponed President, I will at least try to answer- this till later. Certainly, if the Council of Ministers question. does not discuss it in January 1973, we can postpone this matter to the February part- I am certain that the Council will not decide on session. Should Mr Haferkamp's statement be in this matter without knowing the views of Par- the nature of a recommendation to the Council liament. The subject here is a very complicated of Ministers, I would withdraw my request for one, and I do not assume that it could be dis- reinstatement in the present part-session and posed of in the Council of Ministers in a few ask for this debate to be postponed until the miautes, and without a fairly long debate. February part-session, but only on this condition. In view of the Council's other work load, I do not think the matter wiII be disposed of before the President. I call Mr Haferkamp. sitting scheduled for this month. - Mr Haferkamp, Vi,ce-Presid.ent oJ the Commi,s- Mr Berkhouwer. (D) Will the Council wait ston of the European Communi,ties. (D) until the Economic- Affairs Committee has stated Mr President, I cannot here commit the Council its views ? in regard to its method of working. As regards the basic issue I have just said that in my Mr llaferkamp. (D) I believe that it is not opinion no decision can be taken by the Council material for the Council- which committees have without knowing the views of the Parliament. stated their views. It is material for the Council It is no concern of the Council how the Parlia- that the Parliament states its views. ment has arrived at its views, that is to say which committees have taken part. In the present President. I call Mr Kriedemann. case, irrespective of the Council's inten- - tions in regard to time, I would think it useful if views on this complicated matter could be presume Mr Kriedemann. (D) Mr President, I formulated soon. We are all aware of its Council -is familiar the agreement that the with ecohomic significance. Mr Kriedemann too has and knows that it can adopt no resolutions withdrawn attention to this. We also know that this out having before it the views of the Parliament. matter has been under discussion a very long If there is any risk of danger from the Council, time. it could only be from this technique of the interim report. If we say: that is merely an If there were any possibility of Parliament's interim report, although the interim report does taking a decision this week I would welcome contain quite a lot, Parliament has not yet that. I cannot say what the Council's definite expressed a firm opinion, which would come intentions are in the matter. It would be neces- only after the proper report. The Council sary to ask a representative of the Council. could then take the attitude that consultation had taken place, although the proper report and President. We can now reasonably say that the views of the committees also consulted, after the -exchange of views which has just which, I repeat, are in this case of particular taken place, it would be inconceivable for the importance, are not yet to hand. Nobody can Council of Ministers to take a decision without express an opinion on the financial consequences having sought the opinion of Parliament. I of this market system; nobody can say what its would like to thank Mr Haferkamp in advance, Sitting of lffednesday, 17 January 1973 47

Presldent as he will certainly be our spokesman with the because the terms relating to what could be Council of Miaisters. extracted from the preceding decision of the Commission have been turned upside down. f am convinced that the Council of Ministers does not wish to create an incident between W'e would therefore like to have an explanation, Parliament and itself by taking a decision before bearing in mind that even if we do not form Parliament has had the opportunity of discus- part of the Bureau we nevertheless represent a sing the matter. noteworthy force; and this Assembly cannot treat us as of no account except when it is a I believe that this statement expresses the question of voting, at which point our nine votes unanimous you opinion of the House. Do represent something more than their simple maintain your proposal, Mr Houdet? numerical total; we also want to be remembered when we submit questions like the one under Mr lloudet, Chairman of the Committee on discussion, which in addition has been signed Agriculture. (F) Mr President, it would be - by all the members of our political party. Even churlish of me to maintain my proposal. Mr though, as the result of a legal quibble, we have Haferkamp's statement is very clear. The not been accorded the status of an accredited Economic Affairs Committee, as its Chairman group, our political party makes itself felt in said this morning, and the Committee on this Assembly and in Europe, because it is Agriculture have recognised that this problem present in all countries, unlike other political is a complex one. It may even be complicated formations which exist only in a single country. by the entry of three member countries into Our political party accordingly has the right to this Assembly. be informed of decisions affecting the initiatives which it means to take with due regard for Mr President, in the light of Mr Haferkamp's the procedure laid down. statement, which I consider to be a recommendation, and in view of the fact that you have taken W'e therefore ask in the first place to be note of my statement, I withdratr/ my request informed of the reasons for such a postpone- and trust that this matter will be examined ment, and in the second place we would like to before a decision by the Council of Ministers know, if only in the name of the normal rules is taken. of collaboration and out of respect for the work which our party carries out irr this Par1ia- President. Thank you, Mr Houdet. I call ment in common with all the others, for what Mr Cipolla.- reasons it was not considered necessary to submit this decision, even informally, to our representatives Mr Cipolla (4. Mr President, I too desire to or at least to some of those who signed the question tabled. call the attention- of the Chair and the House minutes yesterday's to the of sitting. I in fact I felt the need to emphasize this poiat, because learn from this that OraI Question no. 25172, it seems to me that at a time when there is listed for discussion regardiag actions against much talk of the powers of the Parliament, free competition in respect of internal trade deferments of this kind and the lack of respect within the Community, has been withdrawn in this Assembly for certain elementary from the agenda and will be discussed during standards of cooperative behaviour, may be the the February session, together with Mr Berk- cause of throwing discredit on our institutions, houwer's report on competition policy. particularly when one considers the matter under discussion. point This question has had a difficult life, having In of fact, Mr President, the news the attitude executive been submitted last November in time for it to of that the bodies of this Assembly be discussed at the forthcoming November part- were said to have taken up, reached me not as result session; why it has been blocked remains a of any direct contact with those who had made decision, unknown. Subsequently, on 2 January, the Com- the mission took a decision on the issue raised by but through the confidential statements of a representative one part of the question, and we noted that this of one of the Italian industries which-without mentioning names-is among question had been placed on the agenda as a separate item having no connection with Mr those which stand to lose most from the decisions Berkhouwer's report. of the Commission. Our only official notification of this postpone- President. You will readily understand, my ment and this joint discussion comes from the dear colleagues,- that f cannot follow Mr Cipolla minutes of yesterday's sitting. We do not find in the last part of his statement. Indeed, I that convincing, in the first place because no assure the House that I have never been subject reason has been given, and in the second place to any pressure, and I also give you my 48 Debates of the European Parliament

Freslilent

assurance that if this had been the case f would take leave of yourself and the European Parlia- under no circumstances have sgbmitted. ment. I would like matters to be so clear that there I shall be grateful if you will convey my is no ambiguity, and I vrish to say absolutely wholehearted thanks to the Bureau of your formally that it is current practice in the Assembly, the Presidents of the Groups and all Bureau, when the agenda of a part-session is your colleagues for the cooperation and kindness discussed at the request of the Commission-as they extended to me during my period in office in this particular case-to defer a matter or as a Commissioner of the European Com- couple it with another one. '[Me acceded to the munities. Commission's request more readily atl the Yours very truly' inasmuch as it appeared sensible to us to combine Mr Cipolla's oral question with Mr Berk- (Applause) houwer's report. There should therefore be no mystery in the postponement of this oral question until 4. Documents recer,oed February. Fresident. I have received the following Let us not confuse the issue for certain people, documents: - for I repeat that I was myself present at the meeting of the Bureau on 10 January, and can (a) from the Council of the European Com- vouch for the fact that business was conducted munities, requests for opinion on: quite normally; I thank Mr Kriedemann for the proposal from the Commission of the agreeiag with me. - European Communities to the Council for a In conclusion, f must ask you to believe that regulation amending the common customs neither I nor my colleagues in the Bureau would tariff for certain fishery products (Doc. allow ourselves to be influenced by any 267172). pressure, This document has been referred to the Com- The matter is closed. mittee on Agriculture: proposals the Commission of the Subject to these comments, the minutes are - the from adopted. European Communities to the Council for: L a regulation on the rate of conversion to - 2. Change in the agend,a be used in agriculture for the currencies of the new Member States, President. The Commission of the European II. a regulation amending regulation (EEC) Communities- has advised me that it would like - No. 97AT so that measures may be the discussion of Mr Ballardini's report on the taken in agriculture concerning the new storage of radioactive waste to take place after Member States to reflect their monetary the debate on the European economic situation situation (Doc. 268172), and before discussion of Oral Question No. 19/ 72, with debate. This document has been referred for full examination to the Committee on Agriculture, Are there any objections? and for their opinions to the Economic Affairs Committee and the Committee for Finance and It is so resolved. Budgets. (b) from the Parliamentary Committees, the fol- 3. Letter from Mr Bame, forrner Vi,ce-Prendent lowing reports: of the Commcssi,on report by Mr Herbert Kriedemann, drawn - President. I have received from Mr Barre, up on behalf of the Committee on Agri- former Vice-President- of the Commission of the culture, on the proposal from the Commis- European Communities, the following letter: sion of the European Communities to the Council for a regulation amending the common customs tariff for certain fishery 'Brussels, 21 December 1972 products (Doc. 269172). Dear Mr President, report by Mr Charles-Emile Héger, drawn I was very sorry that fog prevented me from - up on behalf of the Committee on Agri- arriving in time on Tuesday 12 December to culture, on the proposal from the Commis- Sitting of rvVednesday, 17 January 1973 49

President

sion of the European Communities to the laboration we have now entered into, which Council, on a regulation amending regulation rests from the start on principles originally laid (EEC) No. 9747L so that measures may be down in the Treaty of Rome which will lead taken in agriculture concerning the new to the stagnation or even reversal of the develop- Member States to reflect on their monetary ment which has characterised Danish political situation (Doc. 270 172). and economic life for so many years. We also see in the idea of union and hopes of a wide-ranging political unity a danger of creat- 5. Statement bg the Cornmi.ssi,on on the economi,c ing a new block, which can only cement the sttuation in the Cornmunitg (continued,) division of Europe as a whole. For me and my party, the Socialist People's Fresident. - The next item on the agenda is Party, as well as for about half of the largest the resumption of the debate on the statement party in the country, the Social Democrats, it made by Mr Haferkamp, for the Commission, means in particular that the possibilities of on the economic situation in the Community. carrying out genuine socialist reforms have been drastically reduced. The Treaty of Rome, all the Mr Per Dich. (Dlc) Mr President, Ladies and assumptions on which the European Com- Gentlemen, as -the sole representative of the out- munities are based, is liberalist, based on a Iook which made 3?t/o of Danish voters decide to laissez-faire economic outlook, and therefore vote against Danish entry into the European anti-socialist in spirit and letter. \ffe therefore Communities on 2 October last year, I feel it is consider it naive to the point of frivolity to my duty to express some viewpoints here, believe that as a socialist one should cherish especially as this may help Parliament to form any great hopes of a supra-national authority a realistic picture of the political situation in which is completely founded-both in form and Denmark on this important matter. in practice-on the premises of a capitalist society. Especially when one represents the 370/o of Danish voters said No, although millions Danish Labour movement, which, like the labour and millions of kroner had been invested in a movements in the other Scandinavian countries, massive propaganda campaign for Danish has achieved a position of strength not attained membership-a campaign which dangled the by the labour movements in the countries of the carrot of huge economic benefits before the existing European Community. population trade while wielding the stick of This is underlined by the fact that the unwieldy Baps, mass unemployment, major economic bureaucratic apparatus already created by the regression and something approaching the col- under Treaty-an not join. European Community the lapse of Danish agriculture if we did apparatus which has the characteristic crushing Danish prime the time even The minister of inertia of bureaucracy, with all the effects this the went so far as to say, a feu/ weeks before must have on the prospects of transforming referendum, that Denmark did not become if society-only serves to confirm scepticism. a member of the European Community a considerable devaluation of the Danish krone would The European Community has, moreover, been be inevitable. An astounding and-I am sure you developing in a direction which makes it obvious will agree-unique pronouncement in politico- that economic growth is given priority over economic history. regard for human welfare. Ttris, despite all the fair words which have been uttered to the 370/o of Danish voters said Ne-despite the fact contrary. that the country's 4 biggest parties, which together control almost nine-tenths of the Se-alone among the 10 Danish delegates-I votes, recommended Danish membership with must regard it as rrry duty to work in this all their political pov/er and authority. They did Parliament on behalf of the high proportion of this-the 370/o who voted against-because they the Danish population which voted on 2 October saw in Danish membership an obvious danger against joining the Community. of limitations to Danish democratic self-determination and the sovereignty of the Danish But I am tempted to say that I also have to Folketing. safeguard the interests of an indeterminate number of the voters who voted in favour-' \Me did not do it because we thought that namely those who did it from a belief in the Denmark could or should live in isolation. Of many promises made to them by the leading course we think international cooperation is Danish pro-Common Market politicians, not least necessary, but we think it works best between the present Government party, the Social independent partners-in contrast to the col- Democrats, and the present Government, to the Debates of the European Parliament

Dich

effect that a great deal of the integration and indeed, by the policy assurances which we the efforts to harmonise the policy and economy heard in the Assembly yesterday from the of tJle Nine, and all essential questions of distinguisSsd representatives of the Commission economic policy, budgetary policy, treasury and Council of Ministers. policy, social policy, etc., would continue in the years future to be purely Danish concerns. During the 12 Ireland was knocking at the European door our dedication to the European I admit to some difficulty in understanding the principle has never waned even though we logic of these promises. Even if I do not might have succumbed at times to cynicism sympathise with the views and aims of the and disgust because of delays beyond our con- Eurorpean Community, f am willing to accept trol. By impulse, and in the light of our own that if the Economic Community is to function experience, our approach to current European in accordance with these views and aims, then and international problems is outward-looking this far-reaching integration and harmonisation and generous. of the policy and economy of the Nine countries colleagues is an unavoidable necessity. As my know, in Ireland by a five to one majority the Irish people voted in favour But leading Danish poüticians-the politicians of entry to the European Communities. I suspect who recommended Danish membershiphave some of my colleagues here may well envy the promised that these fields of activity will not moral authority which that gives to Irish apply to Denmark. I, my party and the 1,200,000 parüamentarians. Strengthened by this popular Danish voters who voted against membership support, Irish Members of this Assembly, will do our best to see that these promises are irrespective of party, will be total in their kept. dedication to promote the common welfare of all Europeans so that out of a growing pool of Going on from there, it must be obvious that prosperity the tiving standards and opportunities f cannot support the hopes expressed for an for all our peoples can be dramatically bettered expansion of the power and authority of the in our time and for succeeding generations by European Parliament. We want to keep as much payrng respect to the objective of the Treaty power as possible in the Danish Folketing. An to achieve the constant improvement of living expansion of the power of the European Parlia- and working conditions of all our people without ment will mean a corresponding limitation of disparity. the powers of the Danish Folketing, The control we can exercise must and should therefore be We were pleased to hear from Mr. Haferkamp exercised through the Council of Ministers, yesterday that the Commission recognises infla- where tàe Danish representatives will be directly tion as Europe's most intimidating common responsible to the Danish Folketing. problem. It must be quickly and fully controlled iJ the short-term goals are to be achieved within Naturally I do not cherish any illusions that f, the time schedule set. Indeed, even in the long as one individual in this Parliament, can change run aII our objectives will be put in jeopardy the development of the European Communities if we fail to stop the destructive spiral of infla- by my efforts. I must regard myself and first tion which can erode the increased contribution foremost as an observer-which of course does to the value of life which progress and expansion not always mean being neutral over the matters can otherwise attain. dealt with here. But the basic outlook for me must be that Danish policy-and Danish labour The Paris Summit Conference gave us reason to policy in particular-neither shall or should be hope that the Europe of the Nine would be conducted here, but in Denmark, in the Danish motivated by an increasing anxiety to find solu- Folketing. tions to the problems which vÿorry ordinary people. Inflation is certainly the most frighten- President. Ttre remaining listed speakers are ing problem for most Europeans today. The Mr Ryan, -Mr Bersani, Sir Anthony Esrnonde, European citizen witl be disillusioned if the Mr Crurse-O'Brien, Mr Cousté and Mr Petersen. European institutions fail to control living costs to a level which will not destroy the real value I would draw their attention to the fact that of earnings or inhibit necessary trade within their speaking time is limited to 10 minutes. or without the Community. It is, of course, difficult to select the most effective and least Mr Ryan. - (E) Mr President and Colleagues, the damaging way to control inflation because in the trepidation which Ireland naturally feels as economic world one force cannot be appüed a neurcomer to the European Parliament is without releasing other and sometimes unex- quickly dispelled by our enthusiasm for the pected consequences. Accepting that, it is ideal of European advancement through mutual nonetheless disappointing that the Commission support, mutual respect and co-operation and, and the Council of Ministers have not yet given Sitting of lvYednesday, 17 January 19?3 51

Ryan more effective guidance in this field. If inflation cooperation. \Me hope that our European col- is left to develop its own momentum, it wilt leagues will appreciate the valuable contribu- invariably multiply. That has happened in lre- tion which neutral lreland's participation in the land where an annual inflation increase of I EEC can make to dispelling any fears which our to 10 per cent has become the dangerous norm. neighbours to the east may have about Europe's All Europe, Ireland in particular, no\À/ reqüres intentions and in giving confidence to other efficient economic management if the monster of neutrals, whose interests are inescapably linked inflation is not to devour the living standards with ours, to join us in future years. and future prospects for all our people. As an island in the Atlantic and the most It is a cause of great sadness to us that the western point of Europe, Ireland is also nat- accession of Great Britain and lreland to the urally and uniquely positioned to stepping Community brings grievous be a with it the and stone to the United States of America and her horrifying situation in Northern Ire1and, making neighbours the American continent with it a European problem. in whose peoples Europe has links at once tradi- A dissertation upon the causes of, and political tional and currently of mutual interest. remedy for, the strife in Northern lreland would be inappropriate in this debate, but a relevant We sincerely regret that our Norwegian friends aspect which should be recognised and upon were unable to endorse the application for Nor- which there will, f know, be ready agreement way's membership of this Community. But is that the uneven spread of economic wealth being, like Norway, on the periphery, Ireland and opportunity in that region was, and i;s, a sympathises with those who feared that people contributing factor. The healing batrm of greater remote from the centre would be forgotten. rW'e prosperity, increased employment, increased share with Norway serious economic and social investment, particularly in those western areas difficulties. But we have placed our trust in our of depression which straddle the border between fellow Europeans that they will fulfil the Northern lreland and the Republic of lreland, obligations of the Rome Treaty and that together could help significantly to calm the situation, tù/e may uplift the living standards of all. to give new hope in place of destructive bitterness and to provide stability for the future. Ldvely, broad, indeed daring social arrd regional The under-developed areas in Northern lreland policies must be given priority. Generosity and and throughout the whole ôf Ireland provide efficiency in extending to remote and undevel- promising ground for the application of mean- oped regions urithin the Community the benefits ingful regional and social policies. They demand of Community prosperity will not only attract the concern and co-operation of the institutions the support and enthusiasm of dou,bting people, of the Communit5r and the British and Irish whether they be in Denmark, Ireland or Governments. Ttre peoplè of Ireland are grateful elsewhere vrithin the Community, but will allay for the undoubted compassion and concern of the anxieties of our friends outside whom we the members of the Community and of the hope one day to see with us. Because the first British Government, Parliament and peopte in six members of the Communities never lost sight particular. Our earnest hope is that what could of the economic, social and political objectives be a divisive issue will be in this parliament, of the Treaties v/e are today a Community of end through this Community, through joint Nine. effort, a means to unify and heal. Provided we all keep the same objectives in Being a neutral country by conviction and mind and convince those outside that we have tradition, and the only member of the EEC not abandoned those objectives we shall yet which is not a member of NATO or-Western achieve the ultimate goal of a free, democratic European Union, Ireland brings a nevr dimen- Europe from the Atlantic to the Urals. sion to the Communities. IMe can understand possibly better than other members the interests By lreland's accession we have now gone to the and outlooks of other neutral States whose most vrestern point of Europe to the Atlantic. association with us in ,this great endeavour of W'e must now have a generous and broad out- realistic European co-operation may be inhibited look to look further eastwards. by inherited political principles or circumseribed (Applause) by international obligations. Fortunately, we are now experiencing a trans- President. - I call Mr Bersani. formation in global diplomacy. Powers once preoccupied with confrontation are now pursu- Mr Bersani. (0 Mr President, colleagues, lng d.étente and,'beyond ilétente, entente and yesterday we- lived through a day that was Debates of the European Parliament

Bersani

truly European, and today, under the impetus of payments and taxation policies in relation to of the political energy that dominated it, we the medium-term policy-all these, among continue a debate on general themes that others, are important features of a programme inevitably go beyond the field, essential though already laid down. it is, of the economic situation of our Com- munity. Another series of measures links the economic themes to those which are essentially more of I would emphasize like first of all to the a social character. President Ortoli, following importance of the enlargement Com- of the up yesterday the final declaration the Paris munity which has by finally come into being. We "summit" categorically reaffirmed the intention have already had occasion in this debate to of the new Commission to devote itself a appreciate the significance and the practical to vigorous European social policy. This Par1ia- value of the collaboration of the members from ment has always considered economic problems the Parliaments of the three new countries. They from the have injected aspect of their essential interconnec- new ideas into the discussion. tion, which is, profound Next, I would like to greet and substantial, with many of the new the Community's social problems. colleagues who have come here today to join our Assembly, as old and valued friends W'e are therefore completely in agreement with encountered during these long years at all the the emphasis given to the need to tackle with points key where those who believe in the cause great vigour a social policy worthy of the name. of Europe have worked unremittingly to prepare That, moreover, is what Vice-President Hafer- this enlargement and to create the conditions kamp asked for when, after pointing out to us which would permit the achievement of this the objectives of the economic and monetary goal. policy, both structural and related thereto (pre- dominant It is with feelings of particular warmth and among these being the struggle against sympathy that we finally see them here with inflation, whether you care to regard this as provoked prices us; our colleagues today in an even closer sense by or as linked to costs), he pointed than yesterday, united in the common effort to out the other sectors necessarily involved build up our Community. in the comprehensive strengthening of the Com- munity. The problem of unemplo;rment, already As I pointed out at the outset, the debate is substantial in four out of the nine countries in bound to involve not only the report by the the enlarged Community, is among those which Vice-President of the Commission of the Euro- cause the most concern. pean Communities, illr Haferkamp, but also the statements made yesterday by the Even if we have an increase in productivity in rqlresentatives of the other institutions of the 1973, a rate of growth proportionate to the Community. signs of a general upturn in the economy of the Community, and prices are held to a European I would therefore like to stress in a positive average of 4.45010, the effects on unemployrnent sense the tone and content of the statement will be far too limited. Reabsorption is a made by the new President of the Commission, problem of longer duration in relation to the Mr Ortoli. Iile found in his words the political upturn in the business cycle, and only a period dynamism of his predecessors, in the clear and of relative stability will make it possible to firm call for those values and objectives-includ- overcome this social evil, the structural ing the strengthening of the povrrers of the characteristics of which-at least in some Parliament-with which the great majority of areas-conti:rue to be a negative factor for the our Assembly is in agreement. EEC as a whole.

Mr Haferkamp said yesterday that lgZB On the social plane, we must in fact make a represents a decisive year. This year is likely to new approach. A number of indications of this see a series of basic stages, in the economic and emerged in 1972: guarantees against unemploy- monetary fields, but also in the social and ment in supranational enterprises, projects for political ones, the carrying out of which is the workers to participate in the management of destined to result in fundamental advances companies having the same character, the first towards the construction of Europe. intervention by the European Development Fund in the textile sector and plans for other sectors, The second stage of economic and monetary the reform of that Fund, plans union, the and for taking GATT negotiations, the common on obligations in the field of employment and attitude to the International Monetary Fund as development and some improvements regards the imminent in the creation of a European existing social regulations (transport, etc.). Fund, the definition of a common commercial Other subjects have policy, recenfly been brought the final harmonization of the balance within the scope of this approach. Sitting of \Yednesday, 17 January 1973 53

Bersanl f am convinced, however, that we must go resistance to the launching of an effective Euro- further. After ltaly's adoption of VAT, the way pean regional policy. The real non-solution of is clear for confronting larger objectives for the the European policy has constituted, and will harmonisation of taxation and social security, constitute in the future a large knot which has sectors where there are serious anomalies. I ask to be untied in many contexts: from develop- myself in addition if there may not be a case ment to competition, from harmonization to for arranging as rapidly as possible a meeting integration, from the economy to social factors. with the European trade unions and social 'We therefore agree with the general lines of the organisations. Whenever the question of a short proposals of the Commission in the economic or medium term policy comes up, the aspect of and social fields, even if we think that such an incomes-policy, or as it is sometimes called sectors require a more adequate commitment. today, a contract or "social agreement,', re- emerges as the indispensable instrument for an The debate has nevertheless linked the economic agreed and democratic basis of administration. and monetary themes to those of general policy. At the same time it has become clear that both Mr Kirk in particular and with a large body of sides of industry find great difficulty in taking support has stressed the necessity of first part in such discussions. In reality, not one embarking on the matters which directly concern single forward step of significance has been the political constitution of Europe. Europe it taken, even if it true that in these last weeks was said at the Summit must speak with a single two agreements, which as far as we know are of voice on some matters fundamental to the inter- this type, have been concluded in Holland and national facts of life. That demands a strategy of Austria between managements, unions, and con- greater scope. As was again emphasised yester- tracting enterprises. The position of the Com- day in the debate on the Council of Ministers, munity is that we remain at the stage of good it becomes ever clearer that in this field it is wishes, held up by the political and psychological essential for each step forward to be brought to connotations. arL effective conclusion. The Helsinski confer- errce, the international negotiations referred to There is accordingly as yet no solution to the relations problem with all developing countries, trade of how to arrive at a positive basis relations with non-Member States and especially for a meeting which would create the conditions the State-trading countries, constitute some of for a pooling forces of and for a common defini- the chief domains which concern the new Europe tion of objectives-those at least which have pc,litically. been given timely support in the demand made by Vice-President Haferkamp. As other col- The problems of the Mediterranean, which Pre- leagues have pointed out, the objectives of si

Bersanl

As has recently also been stâted by a very high from Pakistan. While trade is our object and dignitary of the Church, this is something which aim in order to build ourselves economically has gradually become a drama for the conscience strong here, it is quite impossible to dissociate of the world. A drama which has also given rise trade from aid. We as a community owe a duty in turn to profound feelings of anguish and hope. to the outside world. We have a great number of charitable and President. Mr Bersani, I am interrupting you - Christian organisations carrying out magnificent to point out that you have exceeded your speak- work in these different parts of the world, but ing time. my extrlerience \À/as that there is not the fullest I therefore ask you to conclude. coordination between them; that is because they belong to rliffsisnf nations and, shall we say, rliffslsnt religious schools of thought. The Bersani. (D have Mr I nearly finished, Mr EEC could do a lot to co-ordinate these efforts President. (Speaker- T?rese continued, in ltali,an) at governmental level and to ensure that there are feelings which this section of the Parliament is no overlapping of aid that is given to these has fuIly shared and shares now, just as it shares people to enable them to build themselves up. at this moment the keen expectation of a final announcement of peace. This partSr also shares Vÿe in lreland, of course, have some interest in a large degree the hope that after the in these far-flung parts of the world because armistice there will be commitments to active we have throughout the ages contributed a mis- collaboration in measures of international assist- sionary effort there. I have seen our people in ance which can actively contribute to transform- action, but I have also seen many European ing it into a real peace. Mr President, colleagues, charitable organisations in Africa doing a lot I would like by way of conclusion to refer with of good there. I would like to suggest to the esteem and admiration to former Commissioner European Parliament that we should concen- Mr Barre, whose work contributed so much in trate on a coordination of effort to deal with the way of exemplary collaboration and this these under-developed countries. certainly furthered the interests of the Com- Peace in the world is essential to us all' Iti my munity. opinion, the greatest threat to world peace is (Applause) hunger, and we cannot escape the fact that there are countless thousands of people dying' President. Thank you, Mr Bersani. as I have seen them die in the African conti- - nent and in fndia, for the want of the bare I must apologise for having interrupted you, but necessities of life. That is a state of affairs you will understand that the regulations must that exists, and it is not really the fault of be observed. anybody concerned, but it is our responsibility, few u/ords I am saying here this Before calling the next speaker I am going to and in the morning feel that I should stress that point. ask each speaker not to exceed his speaking I time. We in Ireland are very happy to be a member European Economic Community. I have I call Sir Anthony Esmonde. of the always been a European myself. I was at school in Europe as a child, and so I suppose one grolils Sir Anthony Esmonde. I conceive that our - up with a European outlook. W'e may be a principal function in this new assembly of nine small country, but still our people are scattered nations is to endeavour to, build !\rithin the all over the world. We have countless thousands confines of the EEC as strong an economy as of people of lrish descent in America' 'We have possible. But we are an outward-looking Com- countless thousands in Britain as well. Ûr fact, munity and we are also established by our great wherever a nation has existed anywhere it is founders here for the purpose of maintaining very hard to get away from the lrish. I can peace not only within the confines of our own assure my colleagues that Ireland will play het territory but throughout the world. I would like part in the Community. to make a few comments on that line of thought. (Applause) I had the opportunity of going to Africa, Ni- geria and what was then known as Biafra in President. I call Mr Cruise-O'Brien. the closing stages of the civil war there and had - the unfortunate experience of seeing count- Mr Crise-0'Brien. The last speaker, my Iess people dying of starvation. A year or so friend Sir Anthony Esmonde, said it was very later I had the opportunity of going to India hard to get away from the Irish, and f am now and seeing the situation there with the massive proving this by following him immediately. It refugee problem that was created by the influx will not form a habit, I assure you. Sitting of ïllednesday, 17 Jrrnuary 19?3 55

Crulse-0'Brlen

Mr. Vals has already spoken on behalf of the regio,nal policy designed to avert the adverse Socialist Group. That Group has authorised its social consequences which that free flow new members to make brief supplementary threrrtens for certain paÉs of Europe. statements. In these circumstances it would be inappropriate for me to attempt to cover the I referred to the absence of the British Labour wide span of matters dealt with in the Hafer- Parlr from this Parliament as an unfortunate kamp Report and already covered by Mr. Vals. circumstance. In doing so I did not imply any I shall necessarily, in speaking in this context, criticism of our British comrades, and I reject confine myself mainly to matters affecting and repudiate any such criticisms that have Ireland directly or indirectly, but I should like been made here. W'e are all, however, affected to make it clear in so doing that I am speaking by the decision of the British Labour Party, therefore, comment not just as a national representative but as a and we have, a right to committed member of a group, the Socialist on it as comrades and to express our hopes. Group in this Parliament. My party, the Irish W'e are affected by that decision because the Labour Party, was an active participant in the enlarged Community is by that decision to a working of the Socialist International with the certa:in extent tilted towards the Right, with other Socialist parties represented here long consequences which all of the poorer sections before u/e came into this Parliament. of the enlarged Community have every reason to fear. f speak here for what is unfortunately at the moment the only English-speaking section of The people whom v/e represent are among those the Socialist Group in this Parliament, the Irish poor€,r sections. But so are the people whom Labour Party; there are only two of us for the the llritish Labour Part5r represents, who are moment. The question of whether lreland should hencerforward affected by decisions made in enter the Community was decided by popular Eurolle and who go unrepresented in this Par- vote at a referendum. In that referendum the liament, which with all its weaknesses and Labour Party campaigned against entry on the defec'ls, which we acknowledge, still represents terms proposed. We did so because we were the hopes of a democratic Europe. apprehensive about the social and economic The reasonsi which led the British Labour effects of entry on our economically weak and Party not to take their seats must be respected geographically peripheral country. Iü'e are by but we have a right to express the hope that no means satisfied that those fears \ilere before the year is out they will feel able to groundless or are groundless now. Nevertheless, come and join in the work of this Parliament. the lrish people, after the issues had been fully Some of us in the Socialist Group going to debated, decided by a large majority to enter London to speak for the Movement de la Gauche the Community. will be expressing that desire to our comrades Not merely did we accept that position as any there. democratic party has to do in such circumstan- I refer now to the tragic situation in Northern ces, but we also accepted what we regard as Ireland. I do not intend to offer any propa- its full and logical consequences. In adhering ganda because there has been propaganda to the Socialist Group vÿe accept all the enough. It is sufficient to say that, through the principles laid down at the Congress of the entry of the United Kingdom and the Republic Socialist Parties of the European Community at of Ireland into the Community, this terible Brussels in June 1971. problem which we inherited has become to The basic principle laid down there, to which some extent your problem too. We hope that we adhere, is that the common ideals and our cornmon membership in the Community concrete objectives of the Socialist Parties of may help. I share the hope expressed in that the Community must be carried into effect with respect by Richie Ryan, which is that through the the most chance of success in the widest pos- development of a regional policy the worst- sible European integration. affected regions may benefit economically. The changes we feared for our people, fears We also hope that we shall benefit psychologi- which apply to alt the economically weak cally from belonging to the Community. Vle regions of the European population, would be hope that our common membership may begin greatest if the Communi§r were to remain only to set old fears at rest and lay what can at the a corunon market; that is, if the free flow moment be only the foundations of a peaceful of capital, goods and labour were not matched solution. \tre hope also that your collective by a growth in centralised democratic political wisdom and, above all-certainly in Strasbourg quarrels institutions, placing the consequences of that -your experience in laying old to rest free flow under a control responsive to the may be a resource to us in the future. needs of the people and with a long-term (Applause) 56 Debates of the European Parliament

President. I call Mr Cousté. measures of August 1972 have'contrived to halt - the rise in prices and reorganise their economy, (f') col- we would meet with defeat. Mr Cousté. - Mr President, my dear leagues, in speaking of the economic situation in As for monetary problems, they are extremely yesterday the community, Mr Haferkamp important in the actual context of the Com- principles governing recalled the basic the action munity solidarity which rù/e are trying to esta- like of this now enlarged Community. I would blish. They are so important that the States have to base the comments I have to make on two already adopted agreements in this connection- main themes: the fight against inflation and on 21 March 1972 n Basle. When one is a mem- monetary problems. ber of a Community, the first priority is to In regard to the first of these themes, we must adhere to such agreements. emphasise once again, iJ indeed we need to, the In order to narrow parity bands, it is first neces- paramount importance which must be attached sary to fix parities, and as the Summit recalled: to the fight against inflation and a return to that are fixed but adjustable price "...... parities between stability. In using this expression, I am their currencies constitute a vital basis for the merely repeating actual terms the final the of achievement of union, artd the Member States held on 19 Octo- communique of the Conference express their desire to set up, within the Com- Heads ber in Paris by the of State or Govern- munity, mutual defence and support mechanisms Member States and Acceding States of ment of which will enable Member States to ensure their the European Communities. observance." This is to say remarks which we heard that the I have read the whole of this sentence because yesterday, particularly from our colleague Sir it contains two basic concepts. Brandon Rhys-rtrilliarns, were, like ours, consistent. Indeed this fight is being organised, in Firstly, the necessity for a fixed parity. I would the light of the decisions taken in October by the like to address my British colleagues and say Miaisters of Finance and Economic Affairs along that their Government must agree to return to a lines which have our support and express our fixed parity of the pound in relation to the other common will, and this objective refers to the currencies. There is no possibility of common enlarged Community of today. agricultural, regional or social development policies if one country follows an'individual and is not therefore surprising this It that within sovereign' policy in the monetary field. This cornmon purpose, Governments have adopted must be clearly understood. It has been clearly their own measures. It is clear that the decisions stated by persons more qualified than myself. taken in Germany, England and, in December in France, to mention only three countries, reflect W'e had hoped for this gesture from England, the cohesion desired by the Ministers of Finance which could have been a sign on the first of and Economic Affairs, and that they are also, January of that community of monetary interest as the final communique of the Paris Summit promising the prosperous monetary area which says, "reflections of the respective situations of we wish to establish. '\[e are therefore disap- the countries in the enlarged Community." pointed and we say so. Why is this so ? Because we are not integrated. But at the same time we would add in 'We that, have no single policy such as that which was accordance with the guidelines laid down by the decreed on 15 August 1971 by President Nixon Heads of State or Government and, on 30 and for the whole of the United States. W'e are still 31 October, by the Ministers of Finance and in that transitional stage which requires con- Economic Affairs, there is also mutual support. tinuous concertation of our Community vision and what the Heads of State and Government We quite understand that any Member State rightly call "the respective situations of the may, because of a combination of circumstances, countries in the enlarged Community." have its plans affected by financial difficulties and be compelled to reassess the value of its Having said which, I would ask the Commission, currency in relation to others. But the Com- and particularly Mr Haferkamp, to keep this munity stands not only for obligations, but for question of monetary cohesion in the Com- the opportunity to follow a corunon policy munity constantly in mind, because without it together. It is precisely to defend this mutual the solidarity established with so much difficulty support that I am speaking today, to say to the in trade and the movement of labour, and also Commission that it must take initiative in this at monetary level, may founder because of the field, so that the problem, which today involves differences, already visible, between the various the pound sterling but tomorrow may involve national plans for fighting inflation, in which the franc or another currency, is never dealt case, in contrast to the Americans, who by the with from the strictly nationalistic viewpoint of Sitting of \ffednesday, 17 January 1973 57

Cousté one country which seeks, quite understandably, Mr Helveg Petersen. (DK) Mr President, to ensure social progress and'the development of Ladies and Gentlemen.- its economic policy. Many of the speakers have assessed the new On the contrary, the solidarity planned must be situation which has arisen as a result of the the subject of genuine proposals by the Commis- enlargement of the Parliament and some have sion, and decisions by the Council, with a view expressed-and vigorously, too-the hope that to implementation by the Community, thereby a nerü/ dynamism will develop. Obviously we ensuring, beyond the official document marking newcomers have listened to these comments with the establishment of the European Fund for great interest and u/e are wondering what con- Monetary Cooperation which as we know is tribution rù/e can make. Perhaps, iust because planned for I April, that the mechanisms of \Me are inexperienced in this work, we may be monetary solidarity and the prospects for estab- able to raise a number of questions which will lishing a European monetary and economic open up new viewpoints. area are not hindered by difficulties which can- I myself would like to make a few comments, not be finally solved in the near future by the Mr President, arising out of Mr Haferkamp's Commission, for this would be a very serious report, but also connected with many of the matter. If I understood Mr Haferkamp's com- other statements we have heard. Mr Haferkamp ments correcfly, this is in fact the intention of has told us about the expected economic growth the Commission. in the EEC countries in 1973, the inflation from My purpose in speaking is to ensure that there which all the countries are suffering, the experiments with regard to incomes policies and the is no misunderstanding amongst the delegates 'Vr/e here, and that we shall all, with the same objec- employment situation. were told that the tives in mind, be able to call upon the mechan- Commission was preparing proposals for the isms of solidarity and the most normal and revision of customs restrictions and that pro- useful methods for creating this prosperous posals for the first step towards economic and monetary area. monetary union would be worked out. We have been given information about regional policy and This is an even greater duty for Europe inas- social development in association with the eco- much as vre are now faced with the need to nomic policy. reconstruct the international monetary system Now, Mr President, having heard this report and and re-establish a fair and lasting monetary compared it with other speeches yesterday, and order, not only for the prosperity of Europe the in particular with the resolution from the Paris of the Nine, but for that of the whole of Europe, Summit Meeting, I can see, intimately linked since there now arises the problem of the links with economic policy, a broad fieid of general between our Europe and Eastern Europe, in the problems facing the Community, which it is up context of the Conference on Security and Co- to us here in Parliament to discuss. operation. rffe must also, when we thiak about reforming the international monetary system, I have no concrete proposals for resolutions, but take into consideration the very important I would suggest that the Commission, taking the problems involved in defending the interests of resolution of the Paris Summit as a basis, should the developing countries through our ov/n pros- place before the European Parliament as quickly perity. as possible a kind of working programme of the ideas the Commission has evolved as to methods The purpose of these few comments has been not of trying to resolve the problems put forward only to help to throw light on the debate, but at the Summit Meeting. I think it would be also to show that our common will is expressed valuable for both parties to have exploratory not only through noble words, but through discussions before concrete proposals are made. mechanisms that are difficult to master. These I think that a procedure of this type would have are the mechanisms of economic prosperity, a stimulating effect in several ways. certainly, but they must be aimed at social progress. It would be satisfactory for the Parliament to be (Applause) given an opportunity to express its opinions, so that they can be taken into account in the final version of the proposals. It is also important for the Commission to know how the parliamen- IN THE CHAIR: MR HABIB DELONCLE tarians, who have and should have a precise knowledge of conditions in their own countries, (Vice-Presid,ent) see these problems. Other valuable results would also stem from a President. - I call Mr Petersen. process of cooperation of this kind. It would be Debates of the European Parliament

Eelveg Petersen possible for us in the European Parliament to In my view it is necessary for the debates on involve our colleages in our national Parliaments these fundamental problems to be conducted in the deliberations. This in turn will mean here in this House, and what has emerged from improved contact with national Governments. the Summit Meeting in Paris is a challenge to I think that broader cooperation of this sort the Commi§sion, to Parliament and to all the between the parties involved will ensure more iastitutions of the Community. meaningful results produce and will good debates 'u/as at an earlier stage in the proceedings, which will It emphasised yesterday that as the be a great advantage. strongest economic partnership in the world, the Community has a very special responsibilty. Closer cooperation of this nature would corres- If we are going to live up to these demands in pond exactly with what was put forward by the relation to the country we come from, then a Presidents of the national Parliaments in the special responsibility and a whole series of communiqué of 15 January. The communiqué special tasks devolve on this Parliament. I calls upon us to establish closer cooperation believe, Mr President, that many people hope between the parliaments of Europe and the Euro- that the enlarged Community will live up to pean Parliament. the communiqué speaks of a these demands and these expectations. I believe whole series of initiatives, including the organi- that despite the weaknesses which may flow sation of a European parliamentary conference from the Parliament's legal position in the Com- with a view to cooperation between national munity as a whole, it is possible for the Parlia- committees in the European Parliament. It is ment to act. I believe that Parliament can suggested that the whole question of information exercise a really central influence, but this should be tackled. This is tremendously impor- means that we have to be receptive to new tant. We must realise that we are missing out on initiatives, as Mr Kirk said yesterday. I hope, this activity in the highest possible degree. It is Mr President, that we will have the necessary vital for us to be able to make sure that our means and will to take these initiatives. countries are properly informed as to what is (Applause) going on within the Communities, institutions. There are great gaps here. The par- European President. I call Mr Lange, liament can make a contribution here. -

It is obvious that the subjects of these debates IYIr Lange, Chai,rmnn of the Economi,c Aftai.rs to be held at the instigation of the Commission Commi.ttee (D). Mr President, Ladies and will often be general in character, but isn't this Gentlemen, I should- like to propose formally necessary, if we want to deal seriously with the that the Commission's statement, as presented questions raised by the Paris Summit ? by Vice-President Haferkamp, be referred to the Economic Affairs Committee, in, accordance The resolution from the Paris meeting states that with established practice. I should like to draw economic expansion alone is not enough. The particular attention to this and to inform our first goal of economic expansion, they say, must new colleagues from the recently joined coun- be to reduce the disparity of living standards. tries that the Economic Affairs Committee and This must take place with the cooperation of all its members have noted Mr Haferkamp's remarks the national partners and must result in the with special interest and will find them valuable improvement of the quality of life. This must be in their discussions. Further, I would ask that seen, the resolution continues, not only in the the representatives of the new Member States standard of living, but in the actual quality of should assist in the work of the Economic Affairs Iife. rffhat is meant by these concdpts ? What do Committee by basing their cooperation on a people understand by the concept of the quality study of all the statements which have been of life ? Should this concept be interpreted as a made in this Parliament, since the report on the sort of alternative to economic growth ? Economic and Monetary Union at the end of 1970 on matters of trade-cycle policy, monetary As far as I can see, Mr President, we are coming policy, regional policy and on all related matters. close to the debate initiated by Sicco Mansholt in his open letter of Februay 1g?2, which has May I point out that this Parliament and the been raised by a number of scientists the world European Economic Communities, despite the over, people who have long been writing and enlargement which we all welcome, is not start- talking about the dangers threatening mankind. ing from scratch, but that we have arrived at Pollution, over-consumption of resources, the a definite stage in our development, the results population explosion, the poverty of the develop- of which are accepted by our new Members. \[e ing countries, rearmament, problems whièh hope that these new members, as well as the individually seem extraordinarily complex and original members, will be able to treat all that together are almost insoluble. has been achieved so far by the Parliament in Sitting of Wednesday, 17 January 1973 59

Lango matters which particularly concern them with appreciate that I should be verÿ glad to go into the same concentration as hitherto, or, better a number of questions which have been men- stilI, with increased concentration, thus rein- tioned in the economic context. I should, forcing the position of Parliament vis-à-vis the however, prefer not to do so, since it is getting other institutions of the Community, i.e' the late and we shall be continuing the debate on Council and' the Commission. economic problems at the February part-session. As the Chairman of the Economic Affairs Com- I do not really wish to say any more, because mittee has just sa.ld, we can prepare the ground we shall have to conduct the debate on the in this committee. subject, after the thorough preparations made by the Economic Affairs Committee, at its next Mr President, I think there will be an sitting in February. I think that the Commission opportunity to deal with the other politically might then perhaps take the opportunity to state important questions raised in this debate, which its own position after taking due note of the are not strictly economic in nature, during the comments made on Mr Haferkamp's oral report. debate on the Commission's work programme in the February part-session. I should, however, like to remind the Commis- sion of one thing. As we have repeatedly pointed One further comment on Mr Lange's speech. out, the Economic Affairs Committee expects Certainly I shall be glad to report on the state that at the meeting on 1-2 February the Com- of our thinking on the matter he refers to at the mission wilI again make a statement on what sitting on 1-2 February: Growth and stability. we have called a "European law to promote Mr President, I should like in conclusion to thank stability, growth, full employment and extra- most sincerely all those who have made economic equiübrium." This, if we are correctly criticisms and put forward suggestions in this informed, is being dealt with in the Commission debate. guidelines. in the form of a directive or of Ittis (Applause) is part of the game if we want to achieve the full Community policy which has been called for in the debate. The fact is that it will no President. - The House will no doubt wish to longer be possible for the di.fferent national refer the statement by the Commission of the media to solve all the problems which we shall European Communities on the economic situa- have to solve in the context of the debate on tion to its Economic Affairs Committee. the economic developement of the Community. Are there any objections? I merely wished to draw attention to these few It is so resolved. points without prolonging the debate. \Me shall have ample opportunity to do this in four weeks time and I think we should then make the 6, Establishment of Communitg netuork tor necessary time. storage of rad.i,oacti,ue ttsoste

May I just add one more comment. The Com- President. The next item on the agenda is a munity has now been enlarged and, as I have debate on -the interim report by Mr Ballardini, said, we all welcome this. As a result, however, drawn up on behalf of the Committee on Energy, some questions which we have so far dealt Research and Atomic Problems, on the establish- with alone have been modified, both quantitively ment of a Community network for the definitive rtre and quaütatively. fully realize this. On the storage of radioactive waste (Doc. 217172). other hand, we should remember that we are in the final year of Stage One of Economic and I call Mr Ballardini who has asked to present Monetary Union, and in the first year of the his report. transition period for the newly joined members. (I). Mr President, We shall have to examine, from this angle Mr Ballardini, rapporteur - especially, what measures this House should colleagues, our discussions often relate to mat- propose to the Council or the Commission con- ters which show wide variations in the length cerning future economic developments and all of the fruition-period involved. Unlike the the related problems. debates which take place in national Parlia- ments, where these throw a light on subjects (Applause) which are strongly characterized by their topicality, we often here have a feeling of President. - I call Mr Haferkamp. being protagonists in processes which come to fruition somewhat slowly. That is inevitable, Mr Haferkamp, Vi,ce-president of the Commis- since reconstituting the old Europe, of nation non of th,e European Communi,ti.es (D). Mr States as a united entity is a task which by com- President, Ladies and Gentlemen, you- will parison with our lifetimes is certainly not short. Debates of the European Parliament

Ballardinl

Nevertheless, if it is true that our goals are not On the basis of these just data, some may come to around the corner, the pursuit of them is the conclusion that a discussion of this problem not an abstraction, now that we know from today may be a little premature. But this is experience that we shall achieve these goals not the case, Ladies and Genflemen, seeing that precisely by dint of the patient, practical, maybe the measures which would have to be adopted modest efforts which we will make day by day, to ward off this danger are such as to prohibit or that otherwise we will not achieve them. any immediate request for their implementation. There are in fact many technical difficulties to The problem that the Committee on Energy, be overcome. The technical experts have not Research and Atomic problems is today sùb- decided ,the most suitable method of storing mitting to the European parliament is no dif- these radioactive wastes. Any such method must ferent from others in this respect. The Commit- satisfy a double need; the need to do this at the tee wishes to submit to the European parliament lowest possible cost, and the need to make a proposal under which parliament, which is maximum provision for the safety of the public. the most direct expression of the will and There are also enormous difficulties as regards interests of those 250,000,000 men and women specifying the zones or regions in our continent who today constitute the European Community, where these centres for the final storage of would call the attention of public opinion, and radioactive waste would be located. This dif- of the Governments and institutions of the Com- ficulty is rendered even more acute by the munity, to a serious matter which, without wish_ typical characteristics of our continent, so ing to evoke bibtical visions of future densely populated. Then there are difficulties catastrophes, is nevertheless of a nature which of a psychological nature to be overcome, deriv- merits our thoughtful and far-sighted initiative. ing from the fact that the populations are firmly opposed to accepting that these centres for the Humanity cannot renounce the utilisation of disposal of radioactive waste should. be located nuclear energy for peaceful purposes. On this in proximity to where they themselves live. point it seems to me that there is no room for doubt; but rÀ/e cannot forget In any event, from a first examination of this that nuclear series of difficulties reactors, in proportion to the produced, it has been possible to draw energy some initial provisional also result in the formation radioactive conclusions. It wilt be of waste necessary which retains its capacity to pollute to try to limit, to reduce to the over many indispensable minimum, decades. As long as nuclear activity remained the number of these deposits of radioactive waste, and anyhow limited, as is the case today, the problem was not to avoid the situation where every country a serious one since it was easy and simple to in our continent finds itself obliged house neutralize the danger represented by this resid.ual to one or more deposits within the borders radioactive waste. But now that it can easily of its own be territory. On the basis of an analysis foreseen that the development of nuclear of where the centres which produce this raüoactive research and of the industrial utilization of waste are located, it is possible to arrive plan nu-clear energy will expand significanfly, as has at a indeed been forecast parliament, envisaging the expediency of simultaneous use in this it is of the also our duty to anticipate same deposit by more than one country. that this radioactive Starting from waste will accumulate in proportion. these first provisional conclusions, the European Parliament's Committee on Energy, Research and Atomic Problems feels Approximate estimates made by the experts, that the moment has come for the Community but nonetheless accurate ones, predict that the as a whole amount to take an initial step towards dealing with this of radioactive waste of low and medium problem, activity will reach some and such is in particular the content 80,000 cubic metres of the resolution annually in 1980, which it is my duty to present about 88,000 cubic metres in in the name 1990, and about 167,000 of the Committee on Erre.gy, cubic metres annually Research by the year 2000. and Atomic Problems of the European Attention should be paid to Parliament. the high progression in the ânnual increàses, as this indicates a growing accumulation of waste In particular, after the discussion which took which will exceed 225,000 cubic metres by 1gg0, place in the presence of the Commission of the 780,000 cubic metres by 1gg0, and in the year European Community, the Committee has con- 2000 will reach the impressive figure of 2 mil- cluded that it is appropriate to suggest as a Iion cubic metres. practical method of solving this problem, the creation of an enterprise representing the Com- These facts suffice to give an exact idea of the munity as a whole. The characteristics of such appalling danger that could threaten the popula- a body, as sketched out in the discussion in tions of our continent within the brief span of progress on the functions of Community institu- one generation. tions, seem calculated to be the best way of Sitting of \ilednesday, 17 January lgTB 61

Ballardini guaranteeing the provision of the economic of the Italian Government and the reply of the resources for the preparatior, of the service, for French Government couched in these terms, we organizing it and for running the service itself, could conclude in spite of everything that in and at the same time for maintaining those some cases it is quite true that silence is golden relationships required for international col- Fortunately, however, the other governments laboration outside the Community as well, which have replied and in general have all, with are indispensable when dealing with this greater or less enthusiasm, declared their sup- nroblem. port for the initiative that the Committee is todal' submitting to the European Parliament. The Committee has naturally considered the Each of these Governments is of course asking problem of establishing whether the European that the technical aspects of the problem be Community has powers to act in this sector; further studied, ànd in particular that detailed whether, that is to say, there exists a legal basis proposals be formulated; and each of them for an initiative of this character. The conclusion reserves its own final decision until the time is that there is undoubtedly a legal basis for when the detailed proposals have been drawn justifying action by the Community in this up. sector, as is iadicated in the written report made available to my honourable colleagues. At the At this point the Committee considered that it suggestion of the Chairman of the Committee on should submit this initiative in plenary session, Energy, Research and Atomic Problems, the as a stimulating, interlocutory project for Committee itself has considered it necessary to transfer according to the formalities which I sound out the real political wishes of the govern- have already described, to the Commission of menLs of the six Member States. This was done the European Community; the latter has already because at the time when the problem was examined these problems in the past, and is now üscussed by the Committee, the enlargement of in a position, with the vote of the European the Community had not yet taken place. For this Parliament behind it, to proceed with the studies, reason, the Committee decided to clarify the to test the reactions of the Governments of the intentions of the Governments of the member countries which are now new members of the countries by means of questionnaires submitted Community, and to draw up precise proposals on to the national Parliaments. this subject. The Ita-lian Government has until now not yet I trust, Mr President, that the House will approve inücated its opinion on this subject. The the resolution moved by the Committee on problems, persistent silence of the Italian Government Energy Research and Atomic con- on vinced this matter has caused me embarrassment; an as f am that it is our duty to give thought good embarrassment due to the indecision in which in time to all the measures neces- I have found myself, not sary to preserve our peoples from the terrible knowing whether to peril attribute this persistent silence to the which will hang over their future at no insensibility of the Italian Government to the distant date. problems of Europe, or to its indifference (Applause) towards the problem of the public safety of its citizens. I believe that I shall finally resolve my President. - I call Mr Vandewiele, draftsman embarrassment by attributing the cause of this for the opinion of the Committee on Social silence to equal insensibility to both. Affairs and Hea1th Protection. The French Government, on the other hand, Mr Vandewiele, draftsman opi.nion, replied promptly to the questionnaire presented tor the (Àf Mr President, as draftsman for the opinion- by a member of our Committee, but it must be of the Committee on Social Affairs and Hea1th said with due frankness that the reply was Protection it is now my turn to request negative. In its reply, the French Government special attention for the important and, in some respects set out its view that national initiatives are alarming, report by our distinguished colleague, adequate and more suitable solving the for Mr Baïlardini. The draft resolution in this report serious problem confronting us, suggested and voices, and rightly so, a growing concern about that in the event of international collaboration the harmful effects on health which may result being necessary recourse should be had to those from delaying too international organisations long the measures need.ed. to which already obviate any possible danger of contamination. operate in this field, unlike the Community; leaving the Community with merely the role of A network of storage areas for radioactive waste assisting by supplying useful information. should be set up as soon as possib[e by joint action of the Member States. The Committee I think that if we had to compare the attitudes on Social Affairs and Health Protection there- of these two governments, the persistent silence fore supports the arguments put forward by the Debates of the Eurogrean Parliament

Vanrlewlele

Committee on Energy, Research and Atomic hygiene. In this connection we would refer once Problems on the need for a sound Community more to the draft resolution drawn up by Mr network of storage areas. Radioactive wastes are Jahn in 1972 concerning the first communication likely to increase by 500/o to 1000/o within the by the ,Commission on the Commuaity's policy next decade. I will not enlarge upon this matter in regard to the environnement. In this resolu- because it is fully covered in Mr Ballardini's tion Commission and Council are requested "in report. To minimize health hazards and control drafting Community legal provisions for the costs, the wastes should be cdllected at as few maintenance or restoration of a healthy envion- storage areas as possible. ment to give due attention to the harmonization of these provisions with a view to their rigour, Setting up a network of storage areas is very the method of financing the measures, the much an action in keeping with the conservation control of observance of the provisions and promote of the environment as it will research sanctions in case of violation". W'e also thought in this field. It is imperative to ensure that the foundation of a European institute for the harmful materials are collected and supervised environment to be a necessity, "since"-I at accurately determined sites. quote Mr Jahn's resolution-"the duties appro- May I, as a Belgian Mernber of Partriament, priate to this institute, that is to say coordiaation draw you attention to recent occurrences in of investigation and stuües in the field of the Belgium. Some clandestine storage areas for protection of the environment at Community waste u/ere discovered there, used by neigh- level must be taken up with alacrity." bouring countries as well. Even the Government Mr President, the Committee on Social Affairs was zurprised at the time at the significance of and Health Protection stresses, as do the rap- these facts. Mr Ballardini has pointed out that porteur and the Committee on Energy, Research the small countries in particular are pressing and Atomic Problems, the need to set up in for action. Let this be an incentive for Parlia- the coming years a Community network of ment anrd Council to consider these measures storage areas for radioactive wastes. In doing now with due haste. so, however, the aim must be maximum safety The Committee on Social Affairs and Health and man, flora and fauna must be safeguarded Protection stresses that guaranteeing maximum against injury by radiation. The setting up of safety is an essential condition for the setting a Community network $rill presumably not up of these storage areas. Radioactive wastes involve actual storage immediately, as insuf- will therefore have to be stored at a few care- ficient experience has been gained and impor- fully chosen and controlled sites. Presumably no tant investigations in this field are still being country will volunteer for this. The choice of conducted. The Commission is requested to future storage areas poses a very difficult prob- submit the rel.evant proposals to the Council lem. Our Committee debates have rêvealed as soon as possible. that there is stil'l uncertainty about-among other things-underground storage and-what President. I call Mr Springorum to speak for is perhaps already taking place--dumping at sea. the Christian- Democratic GrouP. There are still technical probLems here requiring further investigation, but we urge haste' Mr Springorum. (D) Mr President, Ladies It goes without saying that sparsely populated and gentlemen, on- behalf of my political group I areas shoultd be given priority, even if this is should like to thantr< the two rapporteurs very a debataUle choice. As population increases, so corüally for their york. They have dealt with do the costs of biological protection. Then the a subject which is normally outside the field characteristics of underground storage areas of politics. require examinatisn. Current investigations lead '\ÀIe some, for instance, to prefer saltmines situated are considering an interim report. The Com- as deeply as possible under the surface. Accord- mittee on Ener,gy, Research and Atomic Prob- ing to the Committee's information, disused lems feels that we can take up this subject only coalmines do not normâlly qualify as the danger when the Commission has provided the Coun- of water seepage will remain. In the case of cil and Parliament with the relevant material. waste storage above ground it depends upon We are of the opinion that, now that the Com- the composition of the upper layer of soil as to munity has been enlarged, this very important whether radioactive materials seeping through problem must receive further attention and in can be contained or may enter the food chain. no circumstances be forgotten. Mr President, the Community network of îhe possibility of the use of nuclear fission for storage areas for ratdioactive wastes sought by peaceful purposes, in particular for the pro- the Committee constitutes an important contri- duction of energy, would appear to have solved bution to a common policy on environmental many human problems. \['e should, however, not Sitting of Wednesday, 17 January 1973 63

§pringorum overlook the fact that the production of energy very much concerned whether there was a by nuclear fission in no way solves all the prob- notice up saying : "No entry by unauthorized lems. I constantly admire the courage of the persons." pov/er producers, who seek to plan and to construct new atomic power plants in all areas The third problem-the subject of our report of the world whatever the density, without today-is the removal of atomic waste and apparently realizing that some time, some- radioactive refuse. This problem is not yet where, there must be a limit to the load- recognized politically, though it is recognized carrying capacity which cannot be exceeded. scientifically, to a sufficient extent. The The aim should be never to reach this limit of Americans have recently calculated that in the bearable. 20 to 25 years the annual storrage area will cover 65 square kilometres. Today an area of The main problem is still the human capacity that magnitude defies the imagination. There- to withstand radio-activity and the ionizing rays fore, your Committee must ensure the ,atmosphere. that in the Even if the contribution necessary psychologioal, material and technical made by nuclear power plants is only small, precautions are taken as soon as possible. The even her,e there is 'a limit. Let us remember time to begin is now. that there ,are radio-active substances with a rad.io-active half-life of up to thousands of mil- The rapporteur, Mr Ba,llardini, mentioned that lions of years. Even if their proportion is small, we have consulted all other member Govern- it nevertheless exists. According to American ments on this matter. I should like most estimates, by the year 2000 radio-activity in definitely to recommend this procedure to the their country will have increased by 70/0. This European Parliament in other contexts as well, would appear very low, but, if we calculate since, as'delegates of our national Parliaments at exponentially by the Meadow method, we can the same time, we have this right of question all imagine by what time this limit will have vis-à-vis these Governments, and can bring been exceeded. The risk of the point of no up there questions which concern Europe. It urill return might then be ,quite serious for all of thus be possible to take these European us. questions out of the hands of the bureaucrats and place them before the politicians, some of The second problem is waste heat. It happens to whom be a characteristic of nuclear power plants that do not even know what Article 23b contains more waste heat needs be destroyed than and therefore can hardly make any to contribution. in conventional power stations. Even so, this plus of, is in the region of 32-350/0. The fears The basis of any such measure by the Commis- for example, the inhabitants of the Rhine Valley sion would be Article 203 of the Atomic Agree- caused by the construction of a concentration of ment, the substance of which is the same as that atomic power possible stations, owing to reper- of Article 235 of the EEC Agreement. If this cussions on climatic development certainly just article means anything at all, it certainly does in cannot be dismissed. I have had a letter this case. And for us it would be of great from this area concenring the Fessenheim power interest to know whether a member countf fea,rs the station, which claims that the of would reject recognition of Article 203 on the Fessenheim population the would be allayed by corrlmon storage of waste materials. What fact that, in the event of an atomic accident at nonsense it would be for atomic pou/er plants the power plant, the radioactive fallout would on both sides ,prevailing of the Rhine to transport their be oarried by the west winds across waste to the Pyrenees ,or to Schleswig-Holstein. there the "Land" frontier and that therefore This shows how much thought is necessary. was less risk. Mr Ballardini mentioned the French Govern- There is also a whole series of other problems ment's reply. I believe that, despite the apparent which have not yet been solved. To take one rejection, the French reply contained something example-the event of a belligerent confronta- positive, in that it indicates that the Govern- tion. It is claimed in responsible quarters that, 'thrat ment will await the Commission's proposals, and in the event of a load of nature, atomic only then announce its attitude. In view of this ptrants would. have to be closed down until it reply from Paris, the Commission ought to feel had been established beyond doubt that atomic itself impelled to take some action. plants on either side would not be attacked. Or take another case-action by terrorists. We are The Christian Democratic Group fully supports told that, theoretically, nuclear power plants are the resolution ,and asks the Commission to take sufficiently protected against entry by unautho- active steps irt this direction. \['e are convinced rized penions to ensure that nothing urill that the European Parliament wilt always happen. Of course, terrorists ,are not authorized support the Commission in so doing. persorui, but I doubt whether they would be (Applause) 64 Debates of the European Parliament

President. I call Lord Bessborough. experience in this matter and believe that our - safety measures are second to none. At present Lord tsessborough. (F) Mr President, speak- most of the wastes with long half-lives arise ing in the European- Parliament for the first through chemical separation and fuel reprocess- time, I should have preferred to speak my ing. For the commercial power programme in mother tongue, that is the language of my Britain only one site is involved and that is at mother. But it appears that this would be Windscale, Cumberland. It is the British practice somewhat confusing. I would ask you, therefore, to concentrate on this site all the materials to accept my speaking in the language of my requiring long-term storage. native country. The United Kingdom is closely associated with (Speaker continueil i.n English) the international bodies and with individual radioactive waste I listened to Mr Ballardini with the greatest nations on matters of management. \Me played an important part in the possible interest, and I congratulate him warmly joint IAEA/OECD conference in Paris last on the way in which he has presented his report. November. We havç in Britain a firm which is I was also most interested in what Mr Springo- called British Nuclear Fuels Limited. This firm rum and others have said. Like Mr Ballardini, exports fuel for reactors in Italy and the Nether- I am no prophet of doom in this, but I recognise lands. It does reprocessing of fuel for ltaly and that very serious problems arise. It was only the Federal Republic of Germany. It converts day before yesterday that this motion came into the uranium concentrate for several plants in Ger- my hands. It has not been looked at by any of many and Belgium and provides fuel elements our experts in London. and reprocesses fuel for testing reactors in While I must emphasise that I have not been Germany and Denmark. Of course, British activi- able fully to consult those most concerned with ties are not solely confined to the EEC. \Me these questions in the United Kingdom, I say, as provide nuclear fuel for Japan and reprocess a former Minister who dealt with these matters, fuel for Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and Japan. that I view it very favourably. If any amend- Iffe convert uranium concentrate for many plants ments are subsequently considered desirable by in Australia, Spain, Switzerland, Japan and the the United Kingdom, they can perhaps be intro- United States, and we also provide fuel elements duced when the motion goes to the Commission or reprocess fuel for materials testing and experi- and later to the Council of Ministers. mental reactors in many countries throughout the world from Canada and Australia to Greece I was glad to hear that this question would be and Israel, to mention only a few. kept on the agenda of the Committee on Energy, Research and Atomic Problems be- A significant situation has now arisen in so far cause I hope to sit on that Committee. I as all three partners-that is, West Germany, have not yet had an opportunity to discuss mat- the Netherlands and the United Kingdom-who ters with members of the Committee or with are nou/ involved in the centrifuge process for Mr Ballardini or Mr Springorum. I would wel- enriching uranium are now within the EEC, and come such a discussion. Meanwhile, I view this with our entry there is now a second nation motion favourably, with certain provisos to within the Community with major knowledge which I shall come. and experience in diffusion technology. Above all, may I say that the plutonium stocks of the I did not know until Mr Ballardini spoke that Community have been more than doubled by our there had been a certain reluctance on the part entry and that the nuclear fuel plants of the of the French and Italian Governments to accept company that I mentioned, British Nuclear Fuels the motion. The plan to set up a network of Limited, are approximately equal to the total storage areas is sensible. I understand that in capacity of the original Six members of the November L972-I do not think that this has Community. been mentioned so far-an expert panel con- vened by the International Atomic Energy Therefore, it will be seen that Britain has a very Agency in Vienna agreed that the present tech- considerable contribution to make in implement- niques for conditioning and storage of this waste ing the kind of programme set out in Mr Ballar- were entirely satisfactory for the protection of dini's motion of the Committee for Energy, the human environment within the next few Research and Atomic Problems and although, as decades. It also agreed that additional study was f say, I have not yet had an opportunity of required to provide the most effective system discussing the matter with him, I hope that this question for the isolation of this waste in the long term. will be kept on the agenda and that we will discuss it before or after that Commit- Mr Ballardini mentioned some interesting figures tee's next meeting. At all events, I hope we shall which give an idea of the growing scope of this watch the progress of the resolution through the problem. In Great Britain we have considerable Commission and the Council. Sitting of \trednesday, 17 January 1973 6â

Ioril Bessborough

I was interested to hear the idea of creating ask the Oornmission to make proposals on this what the interpreter described in English as 'a matter, and that if the Commission does not do cornmon firm'. This was mentioned by Mr Bal- so, or if these proposals do not lead to any lardini. I do not know whether it is necessarJr concrete solutions, we should exercise the right to set up a further organisation. Is it conceivable that the Treaty confers on us, namely to censure t,I.at the International Atomic Energy Agency the Comrnission, wiùh the legal consequences would be able to undertake this work ? I do not that follow flsrn rlis. know, but I am certninly favourably disposed to the idea that the EEC should have its own It seems to me that on these praetical points we facilities. should follow up the action we have taken, and that Parüament's spirit of initiative should not 'Ere heard also about the European Institute for express itself only in legal formulations and the Environment whieà is planned and this too, regulations. of course, must play a part. Meanwhile, as I say, I am happy, subject to the provisos that I have There is still a second point that I would like to glven, to advise my friends in this part of the stress. Mr Ballardini the rapporteur has emphas- Chamber to accept the resolution and thank ised tJrat the views of the Italian Government expressed by Govern- Mr Ballardini for having given us so interesting are missing from those the an account of it. ments consulted by the Committee. Our colleague Ballardini has'sought to explain this. I (Applause) do not want to appear here as an apologist, I wantonly to lay stress on the action that Mr President. Since you were kind enough, Lord Ballardini and myself, together wittr all the Bessborough,- to start your speech in my other lta]ian parliamentary rqrresentatives, language, I have the honour to thank you in should take. yours. Here is a chancg a significant instance, for using I eall Mr Cifarelli. the national par,liament to see that this statement of views is forthcoming. I do not believe 1ïIr Cifarelli. (I) Mr President, without enter- that tùris silence on the part of the Italian ing into the technical- aspects of the question, f Government arises from insensibility to the will confine my opening remarks to thanking problem or to Europe's problems, but suppose the rapporteur for hls clear exposition, and to that it is connected with perplexity regarding taking note of the interesting statement made the technical aspects, and therefore the steps ,be by the Chairman of the Committee on Energy, which should taken. But this is not the penplexity. technical Research and Atomic Problems. I regard it as moment for The figures and a favourable omen that this Fariliament of ours, factors revealed by the rapporteur throw into representing a Comrnunity of nine countries, has even dearer relief the need to act. Rapid brought up this problem for discussion im- decisioDs are necessary, Ior when all is said and mediate§ after the inaugural debate. done: "'Wihat is Europe? A race agâinst time".

This interim report is trhe result of the initiative I would like to add that the position taken by of the Comrnittee on T:nergÿ, which has alterd the French Government, which the rapporteur the normail order of working according to which has referred to, even if it must be respected, it is the Commission which makes proposals is not in my view acceptable since the existing and the Council of Mfuristers which makes a agencies and international organisations are not decision after having heard the views of the adequate. They are inadequate not,only because Parliament, and has taken the step of itself they are not yet equipped to solve such prob- putting forward this question, with the request lems, but also because, when ure are concerned Mr Springorum has emphasised among with radioactive waste, my friends, we must other-as things-that a start be made on a policy concern ourselves equally with territorial organ- for the whole Community, with particular isation; that is b sry, with the choices that are ,of referenee to the legal aspects of Article 203, going to be made in the territory the coua- or il we prefer it, Article 235 of the EEC Treaty; tries concerned, as regards the planning of anrl snnssquently to the aspect foreshadowed production and economic development yesterday by Mr Kirk, who stated that Parüa- passiag, ment should assume ne\M powers (a point of I would üke to refer, in to a questiou now arising between Tuscany view which I fully share). and Corsica, that is to say between Italy and France, regart{ing And so we here have an example. Parliament ssnlan'rinative industrial wastes (in this instance has taken the first step, and we must follow titanfitm) which are being deposited in the with courage because the problem is one of Tyrrhenian Sea ;by an Italian industry, and rrngsstrl importance. I believe ttrat we should which is polluting tàe coast of Corsica after Debates of the European Parliament

Ctfarelli being carried there by the action of the sea Presidenl I call Mr Spinelli, Commissioner itself. of the European- Communities.

Mr Spinelli. (I) Mr President I will be brief, this is another problem, but it is still an aspect - of this territorial organisation. There cannot by since the addresses, beginning with that of any modern economy, there cannot be any Mr Ballardini, whom I would like to thank effective development without planning, and in the name of the Commission for the excel- planning means selecting the area involved. W'e lent report submittæd, make it superfluous for do not, as in the days of the colonial empires, me to add ,any argument in support of a cause have territories which can be freely disposed of; which has convinced us a1l-namely the funda- and especially as regards pollution arising out mental importance that radioactive waste will of production processes, as for example the case assume in the next decades, and the necessity of of these radioactive wastes, the localities at tackling the problem in good time. the our disposal are extreme§ scanty and The Commission of the European Communities great the inhabitants have anxieties which has not ignored the problem, but has included democratic states should take heed of. We must questions relating to this waste in the research problem therefore encircle ttris in our selections programme, and has clearly indicated a num- of territory Rrithin the Community. \Me can and ber of steps to be taken for protecting the should have recourse to iaternational regula- environment from pollution by this waste. tions. Where possible, we can and should make use of large international organisations which Having said that, I am pleased tJlat this Par- exist or which may come into being, but we Iiament has taken up the theme in rather more should above all be fully informed as to what general terms which envisage a corrmon the Community wishes to do with its territories, initiative that shoutrd take account of the its production decisions, and therefore the industrial problems, the conservation of the choices regarding the waste arising from them. environment, the problems of research and so A regional policy is required here, and that is forth. This plan of action also includes the why we consider that a reply which tries to necessary participation in all the related inter- refer everything to the i:rternational level is national activites, a:ad maks provision for the unsatisfactory. construction of a network qdthin the Commun- ity which would control the problem of the The track of The Community must deal with these problems utiüsation of radioactive waste. and I would like-by way of conclusion-to such a network exposes us to 'a limitation on nuclear energy and recommend to the Chairman of the Committee the possible exploitation of of 'the competition on Energy, Research and Atomic Problems that to rather serious distortions another, or one region having already consulted the Governments, he between one country and should elso consult public opiniel, and hold and another. interviews on this subject. If there are inde As is known, at the Paris Summit Conference pendent bodies in the various countries, in- the ,Community institutions, and in particular cluding mine, which deal with the conservation the Commission which has a specific mandate to of the environment, nature, and so forth, why take the initiative, took on the responsibiüty of not listen to their opinion? drawing up programmes related to the environment, to a policy for industrial research, and I in fact consider that all Parliaments should to a policy for energy. When drawing these up, have frequent contact with public opinion, since we must keep in mind the requirements the source of strength is uot here, but outside; specified' by Parliament, q/ith which vÿe not in the wording of treaties, but in the associate ourselves in principle. I am oertain convictions of the people. I have had an that for drafting this programme of action, and experience similar to this in the lransport Com- the related pro,trlosals, we can count on the mittee. 'We frequently find ourselves facing continuing cooperation of Parliament. problems themselves a logical which lend to CIearIy, it is not possible now to follow up yet do not materialize. solution, and the solutions suggestion immediately, but the Com- great problems, whether every I feet that behind these mission considers that the general principles in- transport or of energy, lies the in the field of volved are valid, and that they deserve to be problem choosing ground, that is basic of the gone ,into more deeply and developed at a later basis the economic planning. to say, of the of date. It is a great battle, and I congratulate the Com- mittee and their rapporteur Mr Ballardini on Having said which, Mr President, I would like having drawing tJle attention of Parliament at to give you an asfltrance that the Commission this juncture to problems of such intense signifi- will go to work quickly, and that in drafting cance. the proposals it counts on the collaboration of Sitting of \iÿednesday, 17 January 1973 6?

§plnelü

Parliament. The resistence, reticence or silence IN TIIE CHAIR: MR BERSANI of this or that State was a factor noted before a certain political event, that is to say before the Vice-President Summit Conference; in fact this conference showed that the various Governments wished, (The sitting, ad,journed ot iZ.SO, and were prepared to commit themselves to was resurneil at 75.05) making use of all the working tools of the Community, including Article 235 and the equi- President. The sitting is resumed. valent articles in the Euratom and ECSC - Treaties, to give the Community the chance to implement this policy. We must take the view 7. Oro,l No 19172, uith d,ebate: that these hesitations have been to a large Questi,on degree swept av/ay, as a political attitude. It Franco-P oli.sh Econorn i,e Cooperati,on Agreem,ent is now possible to make progress here, and we ought to make progress, since otherwise-as Mr President. Ttre next item on the agenda is Ballardini has rightly pointed out-we could Oral Question- No 19172, with debate, submitted quickly reach a point of deadlock at which our by Mr Glinne, for the Socialist Group, to the development would either cease or would Commission of the European Communities on continue at the cost of such a deterioration in the Franco-Polish Economic Cooperation Agree- living conditions that its zuspension would be ment and the holding of consultations as agreed regarded as preferable. between the Member States of the EEC on external ,trade. President. - I call the rapporteur. The quætion has been eirculated. I remind you that pursuant to Rule a7(3) of Mr Ballarrlini. (l) Mr President, I am speak- - the Rules of Procedure, a questioner may speak ing only to tàank Mr Springorum and my to a question for up to twenty minutes and that colleague Mr Vandewiele, who have assisted in after the ansv/er of the iastitution concerned, the drafting of this report for what they said, to Members wishing to speak may do so for not thank our friend and colleague Mr Cifarelli for more than ten minutes and may speak only pledging his support for this initiative in the once. At his request the questioner may briefly warmest possible terms, and to offer my special comment on the answer given. thanks to our colleague Lord Bessborough whose suptrlort for the action proposed has a I call Mr Kriedemann who has asked to speak significance that ,is worth stressing. It shows to the question on behalf of Mr Glinne. that also on the British sid,e-that is to say from one the newly-joined States-there is a of Mr Kriedemann. (D) Mr President, we know marked receptiveness in the attitude to this the circumstances- in the country of my friend problem, which demonstrates that we can make G1inne which have prevented him from use of the great experience of Britain to Mr being us today. may some con- examine the subject in greater detail. with It be solation to us that, according to the latest reports, these problems appear to be very near Mr Spinelli, the Commissioner, has taken in hope the best good part the request made by Parliament, and to a solution. We shall aII for results. 'we ,are sure that after the vote on this problem, Parliament will wish to urge Governments and In his place I shall table the question, and f the Commission in categoric terms to face ,their can do so very briefly. We have no special responsibility for taking the ûndispensable steps ul,terior thoughts, and the outcome of the we advocate as speedily as possible. question is unlikely to cause any surprise. In raising it we wish to draw attention to one problem only, a problem which is of great President. Does any one else wish ? to speak interest to us all. The Commission shoutrd have I put to the- vote the Resolution. draft The draft an opportunity to express its views on the Resolution is adopted.l matter.

Ladies and Gentlemen, u/e shall adjourn and If today we make an inventory of all that the the sitting will be resumed at 3 p.m. Community has achieved, of what is being done on a Community basis, we shall not overlook, year, the common com- The sitting is suspended. since I January of this mercial policy, because after this date it is the responsibility of the Community to conclude I OJ No C4 of 14 February 1973. trade agreements. 68 Debates of the European Parüament

Krledemann

There are no more bilateral trade agreements, operation agreements signed by all the members apart from commercial treaties of 'a bilateral of the Community with the various State-trad- nature 'concluded in accordance with a ing countries. resolution of the Council of Ministers, that is to joint which has enabled The Commission's reply to this question is not, say a aratrgement qTsuld one or other member country to conclude trade therefore, confined, as Mr. Kriedemann agreements after this date. probably wish, to the Fraaco-Polish agreement alone. Cooperation agreements of the kind There does not appear to be complete concluded between France and Poland, extend- unanirnity ,as to what a corrlmon commercial ing to economic, industrial, scientific and techni- policy is. the first reaction is always to think cal cooperation in general, are not explicitly of trade agreements. By now, however, we zubject to Community prior consultation proced- know tJ:at in a development context conven' rrres as defined in the decisions of 9ttt October tional trade agreements no longer play the 1961 and December 1969. Nevertheless, the role tJrey formerly did ; instead, there are a honsurable Member is absolutely right to raise whole series of agreements differing irr content the question of the link between cooperation and form, which are undoubtedly commercial in agreements and the implementation of a eom- uature, or at least of considerable material im- mon courmercial poücy towards State-trading portance for trade and trade policy. The countries. An effective corrmon commercial question then is: Are such arrangements policy must cover all aspects of trade policy and included as a constituent part of commercial especially those most relevant to the changing policy ? We have selected a case of an agree- conditions of trade with these countries. ment between a member country and a third country, which is in the Eastern bloc. It is not a I mention the changing conditions of trade, trade agreement, but a treatSr which is explicitly because v,re are now at a stage where the described as being of importance for the problems of tariffs or quotas, so important in development of trade between the two parties days gone by have lost the significance they to the transaction. once had in our commercial relations with the countries of Eastern Europe. The emphasis has The questions arising out of this EriU be found now switched to instruments like credit policy in the forrn of a reprinû. I do not need to read and industrial cooperation as a means of extend- them out. They may be found on the tables in ing trade. all languages. If we examine the substance of the cooperation I shall be interested to hear the Commission's qrill agreements, putting them in the broader context comments. I leave the matter there and of East/ltlest d,étente and the new forms of reserve the right to revert to it after the debate East/\Mest economic relations which have and the Commission's reply, if we feel that developed recent years, it is obvious that properly in the question has not been clarified. there are aspects of these agreements which Be it said that it is not a specifically socialist relate directly or indirectly to a policy of export problem, but a problem for the Community promotion. as one of the world's leading trading partners. (Applause) Let me make it quite clear to the House that the new Commission, like it,s predecessor, attaches the highest importanae to the har- President. I call Sir Christopher Soames. - monious development of trade witJl State-trading countries. We also consider that cooperation Sir Christopher Soames, Vi,ce-Prestd,ent of the agreements are a useful instrument to this end, Commissi,on oJ the European Cotnmunities in that tlrey proüde machinery for improving (E) May I first say what a great pleasure and knowledge of the requirements and opportuni- -honour it is for me to be speaking here in the ties in the rlifferent markets. They also establish European ParHament for the first time and how a framework which encourages private initia- proud I am to be following in the footsteps of tives to negotiate and finance cooperation Professor Dahrendorf who did so much in this contracts. area of foreign affairs over the past years. What a privilege it is for me to follow him in attempt- At the Summit Conference Member States ing to make my contribution. referred to the need to promote a policy of cooperation founded on reciprocity with the The question as it was tabled by Mr G1inne countries of Eastern Europe. Indeed, the referred specifically to the Franco-Polish co- existence of an enlarged and strengthened Com- otrleration agreement but as Mr I(riedemann munity should create the opportunities for a has rightly pointed out this whole subject higher degree of cooperation and for a broader concerns to a greater or less extent all the co- range of possibilities. But t}te Summit Confer- Sitting of \Ifednesday, 17 January 19?3 69

§ir Christopher §oa,mes ence also, reaffirmed the Communit5/s declared Eastern bloc. this, as a third Eroup, will compel aim to follow a common commercial policy the Commurrity to form, as never before, a towalds these courrtries. It follows, therefore, picture of the greath cornmercial and political that we should seek to ensure lhat cooperation issues which are behind each commercial agreements negotiated by individual Member agreement How can we present these in concrete countries do not rtm counter to the general form in a Community policy? concept of a common commercial poticy. The Socialist Group did not press this matter The previous Commission, in its communication over the agreement between Poland and France, to the Council dated 20 December 19?2 on the but they have taken this opportunity to confront position as regards commercial policy towards us with the extremely difficult to answer ques- the countries of Eastern Europe, showd itself tion of how, in ways to which we are unaccust- to be aware of this problem. It stated that omed in the Member States, we can combine proposals on this matter would be zubmitted to our interests in an agreement. Concepts of the Council during 1973. I readily endorse tJris price and delivery have a different meaning in undertaking on behalf of the new Commission. the context of a relationship with the Eastern Vfe shall be working on it in the coming months. bloc than in our relationships with the United I hope the House will understand that this means States or Japan. that am not position go I in a to be able to How can we defend our common interests into detail today, hope but I that I have said against the csuntries of Eastern Europe without sufficient for the House to appreciate the Lines being played off against one another by these on which our thoughts are moving. countries? That is the question which we must But I should like to add tbat I am delighted ansvler. that the honourable Member's Question has We must not appear in Poland and Moscow given me an early opportunity to address myself shortly with our offers as nine individual states. to the important subject of our relations with V/e must not pursue our commercial and the State-trading countries, for there is much industrial interests and offer our know-how progress to be made and the time is surely right unilaterally. '!Ve must not, of course, let the to concentrate our minds on this. Recent state development of our relations stagnate; business ments by tJle leaders of these countries make continues, with or without agreements. it clear that they also are rethinking these The Community should, however, form a picture problems in the light of the changes taking place of what it has to do. I am grateful for the way Europe. Progress in will naturally depend not in which Sir Christopher Soames has put it. He on political only the resolve of our partners but said that what was originally the essence of also on our ou/n capacity to think out well- trade agreements has now given way to credit balanced solutions. I wish to assure the House policy, industrial cooperation and e:çort-stimul- that the Commission is resolved to play its ation. proper part in this. I{owever, as Sir Christopher Soanres has introduced these three ideas, it is of course an urgent President. - Thank you, Sir Christopher. I requirement for the Community as such to call Mr Baas. determine how it should give form to the crer{it policy and industrial cooperation, how it should ilIr Baas, for the Li,bqal and, Alli,es Group. stimulate exports and the ways in which all (iV) Mr President, on behalf of the Liberal and- this should be integrated into the Community Allies Group I should like to add a few remarks policy. This does not, of course, mean that it on the question by Mr Glinne and also on the would no longer be possible for Member States remarks made Sir Christopher Soadres. Sir to conclude agreements unilaterally. '$/e must Christo,pher has made it abundantly clear that remember that in addition to commercial tàe policy of the previous Commission wilt be interests there are political considerations. The continued by this one. On the other hand, it is Community must give form . to its politieal elear that taking the date of I January 1973 as a inter.ests. starting point and knowing that we must arrive at a common policy of the Member States, we I !ÿish to thank Mr Kriedemann on behalf of the should, of course, develop our orrrn ideas on Liberal Group. I should also like fe ffiank parti- how we can maintain commercial contacts cularly Sir Christopher Soames. The Liberal with ,Commissiou the countries of the Eastern bloc. Group would appreciate it if the would provide us with a working document, In addition to the contacts with the United this year, indicating the lines along which it States and Japan on the one hand and the seeks to combine commercial interests with our developing countries on the other there will now political responsibility towards the countries also be contacts with the countries of the behind the Iron Curtain. 70 Debates of the European Parliament

Baâs

Mr President, I believe that all nine countries new treaties, to do so in the light of the realities have an interest in correctly balancing the of common commercial policy and Community industrial and commercial interests of the responsibilities. That, of course, is a consider- Community wherever possible. But apart from ation which it is easier to state than to put into this, the separate interests of the Member States practice, because every item is part of a complex must be set in a framework in which v/e can and one could go so far as to say that a cultural conclude certain agreements. Before 1 January exchange, in the event of its making progress, 1973 the Member States were in fact empowered will result in an expansion of trade, because one to conclude commercial agreements. On behalf must at some given stage set a limit. Everybody of the Liberal Group I should like to ask the knows that nothing is more difficult. Commission to say along what lines it considers vÿe we must take care to ensure that commercial interests can be defined in the However, agree instruments common com- near future regard to the strengthening of that it is not the of in policy exchanges between our relations between East and West. We think mercial but there then be opportunities for Community and all countries of the world that that will into line with present day condi- harmonious development, not only for the Com- are brought munity but also for the countries behind the tions. Iron Curtain, to the benefit of the peoples. That is my first observation. the actual purpose of the President. I call Mr de la Malène to speak Second observation: question is some extent irrelevant, because for the European- Democratic Union group. to unquestionably the Agreement referred to is not subject to criticism. It was submitted to the Malène. (î) Mr President, Ladies Il[r de la - Council, as prescribed by the provisions of and Gentlemen. On behalf of my Group I wilt December 1969; it was also signed prior to 31 make some brief observations on the OraI Ques- December 1972; finally, it relates to industry, tion put by Mr Glinne. cooperation and many other spheres. Naturally The first remarks, applicable within the frame- it will have consequences in the commercial work of the constitution by which we are sphere; everyone wishes this, as the signatories governed, namely the Treaties, relate to our do; but under the Treaties it does not fall within policy. reqponsi'bility in respect of common commercial the scope of common commercial poücy. My third observation concerns the State-trading part On this point the Treaties are very precise and countries. I regret the reference, on the of stipulate clearly the scope of responsibility of those who have worded the question, to Community institutions, and consequently the COMECON. I believe that our Community is reciprocal responsibilities of the States and of not concerned with considering that it should the Community. lay down a common policy vis-à-vis COMECON. That name should be excluded from our Many times, within this Parliament and on the vocabulary. It is not the function of our Com- Committee of which I have the honour to be munity to give recognition to, or to lend sup- Chairman, v/e have been faced with this port to, or to give greater authenticity to, that problem, because circumstances have changed commercial body. On the other hand, we should a great deal between the time when the Treaty welcome any intiative fnom State-trading coun- of Rome was drafted and today. Indeed, com- tries to make an. approach to the rest of the mercial policy between States is not expressed world, in particular our Community, regarüess and is not applied in the same way as at the of the existence of that organization for economic time of the Treaties whioh govern us. 'We integration which, for my part, I refuse to certainly have to acknowledge that nevertheless recognize. that is our law and none of us is entitled to depart from it, however much we may wish to Consequently, I believe that if 'we are to make do so. It is not for us to criticise one action or an effort to harmonüe the overall system of our another, because instruments of commercial trade with State-trading countries, and if we policy, which should in some way be adapted to are to continue along tJle lines which we have the Community, are clearly provided for in the already adopted-the Committee of which I Treaty. have the honour of being Chairman has produced a great many reports on trade with Yet we are bound to recognise that commercial the State-trading countries but there has never relations between States are norùr being estab- in any way been any reference to COMECON- lished in different circumstances than those there should be no reference by us to that organ- which prevailed over them at the time of signa- ization for economic integration, because a ture of the Treaty of Rome. It is necessary to be number of the State-trading countries do not aware of this and to endeavour, when negotiating have the benefit of it. We should try and Sitting of \Mednesday, 17 January 1$73 71 de Ia Malène

provide for a harmonization of relations with whether or not he would address the House. the countries of the East, with the State-trad- What I attenlpted to obtain from the Minister, ing countries, but not aim in the terms we use, Mr Schurnan:n, for my colleague Mr Glinne, was as has been specified in the question under a precise statement of the policy of the French discussion, to harrnonize our relations with Government in this matter. Now, clearly, on the coMEcoN. date when the Agreement was made, the French Govdrnment was under no obligation point possible On that I make all reservations. whatsoever to apply a Community policy, for harmonization relations I want a of our with as has rightly been pointed out, it was not a the State-trading countries; I want the relations commercial agreement but merely a granting of our various States to be within the framework quite jointly-determined of credits. And Mr Schumann has made it of a policy which, as Sir clear that rnatters of the kind were not yet Christopher Soames, the ,Commissioner, has so within the scope of the Community. rightly said, is not incompatible with a common policy; but above all I would not wish them to But obviously, 'as all the speakers have said, in be part of a policy of understanding with that one tü/ay or another the granting of credits, even economic organization which, for my part, I if they are not exclusively assigned to trade, repeat, I refuse to take into consideration. has implications for the volume of trade and commerce. Consequentlyl it is fortunate that as Those, President, the three comments Mr are from 1 January 1973 precautions have been which wished to make, which may be summar- I taken for agreements of this kind to'come more ized as follows: or less direcUy within the scope of our com- First, it is necessary to go beyond common competence. mercial policy as provided Treaties. for by the In conclusion, I woutrd mention that this is one How ? lhat is difficult because everything of the forms of gradual extension of the com- naturally favours commercial policy and it is petence of the Community and of our Parlia- indeed necessary to determine a limit, otherwise ment, and without such extension unduly large we do not know what falls within its scope sectors woul,d escape our control or'our know- problem and we imagine that the is solved when ledge. it is not. Therefore it is necessary to go beyond what is specified in the Treaty but also to know Finaly, I should like to express special thanks where to stop. At this moment, it is true, we to Sir Christopher Soames, the Commissioner, do not know this. who irr his first address sho,wed that the new Commission, including himself in particular, is Secondly, the Agreement at issue is not, in it- resolved to play the Community game to defend self, above criticism. the interests of all. Thirdly, as regards harmonization of our policy (Applause) towards the State-trading countries, I fully agree with the idea: the Committee on External President. I call Mr Kriedemann. Trade Relations has always favoured such - harmonization. On the other hand, I believe that Mr Kriedemann. (D) Mr President, Ï should it would be very reluctant for such like to make a few- concluding remarks. I rnust harmonization to be arranged with COMECON. first thank Sir Christopher Soames for his reply and take the opportunity to wish him luck in President. - I call Mr Giraud. his future work. ,extent just I hope we all realize to what the Com- Mr Giraud. (tr) Mr President, a few munity's credibility depends on its gaining - one points in words, in order to clarify or two respect as a trading partner from all, an'd this debate. not only from states we refer to for convenien- When my friend and colleague Mr Glinne made ce, as state-trading countries, a trading parhrer the decision to put this question I, in turn, was which is above any suspicion that it is using its prompted to put it to the Foreign Affairs and economic po\Àrer in ,a manner which could be National Defence Committee of the French desc'ribed as neo-colonialist. This term is no Senate, and I asked the Minister, Mr Schumann longer entirely unknown. It has been clear to for his opinion on the question. me from the outset that we should not be able to come to a final decision on this question now In fact, I would not wish Mr de la Malène or raised by my group, and not be able to go home our co1leagues to have any reason to think that with the feeling that all doubts had now been my intervention is a reply to the specific state- dispelled. Contrary to any such foolish expecta- ments just made by Mr de la Malène, because I tion, I felt that the subject would contihue to had my name put down before even knowing appear on the agenda for some time to come. Debates of tàe European Parliament

Kriedemann

Consequently, the question does not refer, as a question: Do we really want a cornmon com- special case, to France because it conoerns mercial policy in the ful.l sense of the word ? trt France, or to Poland because it concerns Poland would not be the ultimate in Community action or some other state-trading country. Moreover, to divide commereiâl policy according to the I wonder to what extent we in tàis Community, conventional vocabulary and the ,traditional if for instance export subsidies are fixed which methods, and to say that our cofllmon com- are paid from public funds, can daim that it is mercial policy is represented by trade agree- not a case of state-trading countries merely ments; it is only these which are still concluded because a merchant is involved as an inter- in common; anything new will be decided by mediary, and he also wants to make his profit. each member himself. \[rith hindsight we should Are such market econornies still free ? But I will realize too late that h,ardty any trade agree- not pursue this matter now. ments in the conventional sense are still concluded; instead, relations between individual We hope to be able to discuss this subject in countries are arranged bilaterally on a totally detail in the Committee on External Trade Rela- different basis. But this would have little to do tions, in whose competence it fa1ls, and shall with a Community or cornmon commercial find a suiûable occasion to do so. Moreover, I policy. would point out that we are concerned not only with questions' affecting stat+trading This whole range of problems will have to be countries. I can well imagine that we shall also examined verÿ carefi.üly, and there should be resort to solutions of this kind in dealing with ample opportunity to do so in the Committee industrialized countries. The methods and on External Trade Relations. conducting foreign machinery available for The sooner the Committee outlines its views, ü trade policy would appear to have been ampli- more, perhaps even as part the work previously no of fied to some extent. Practices programme, the sooner we shall be able to unknown are today,encountered under the name discuss the entire problem in detail in the policy. natural processr, of trade firis is a very responsible committee. for which no provision is made in the agreements. Allow me, in conclusion, to make one further Agreements are of course the basis of every- comrnent whi'ch conc€rns us a[I, i.e. the powers thing we do, but they must not be regarded of the committees. I see certain dangers in policy puely as obligations which we impose on saying that conventional foreign relations ourselves; we must al-so note what is not is the responsibility of the Committee on included, and is therefore not prohibited. If External Trade Relations, and that anything in policy, agreements, whatever their nature, are not to be the nature of development that is to say a shackle, they must be aonstantly adjusted to economic relations between the Community and developments which, fortunately, do occur in developing countries-and there can be firrther the life and relationships of individuals and dispute about their number, their extent and nations. Withou,t this kind of development the their situation-is the concern of some other entire system woüld be in a very sorry state. eommittee. Let us consider serious§ whether Thus we are not prevented by the agreements it would not be most useful to treat everything from beiug receptive to new ideas, and this connected with economic relations, for whatever extends to our relationships with other trading purpose+itJrer to earn money, to help some- partners, and I mean not ouly behind the Imn body or to settle a pollitical difficulty-according Curtain or the state-trading countries. How can to the not entirely unknown formula: "Trade Çqmÿniffee on we bring this about ? not Aid". Admittedly, the External Trade Relations would again be sole1y Mr de la Malène has reminded us that the Com- responsible. mittee on Exteraal Trade Relations takes a very responsive attihrde to such matters. Com- President. I call Sir Christopher Soames. asn ttrinking is certain to produce ideas, since - we have a cornmou interest ir not deluding ourselves and not raising obstacles iu or.lr patà. Sir Christopher §oames, Vî,ce-Prend,ent of the Frequently, in the course of our strenuous task, Commissi,on of the European Comrnuni.ti,es. beset by disappointuients of many kinds, we (E) If I could reply to the interesting points rnade- have sought refuge in the tàought that despite by some honourable Members during ttr:is brief all difficulties, we have advancad at least one debate, first I take very muoh the point made step forwald. But, when mortring came, lnre rrreFe by Mr Baas. I should like to take this opportun- no step forward. In the light of this real.ization ity, which he gave mq of pointing out that it let us clarify our minds. Have we really a com- is encouraging that in the Communit5r's general mon tradihg policy in the full sense of the relations with Eastern Europe the Nine are wond ? This naturally leads to the further preparing to speak with a well coordinated Sitting of \Mednesday, 17 January 1973 ?3

§tr Chrtsüopher §oa,mes

voice at Helsinki on a nrrnber of issues which lem. We shall, together with the Com,munity will ,be coming up at the Security ConJerence. as a whole, do our best to resolve the problem; lhis must clearly be developed and reinforced and the Commission will play its fuU part in as the work of that conference unJolds during this process. ühe coming months. (Applause) the general approach to the problem of trade a.rrangements was referred to by Mr Baas, Mr President. Thank you, Sir Christopher, for de la Malène, Mr Giraud and Mr Kriedemann- these further- comments on this important issue. I think we all appreciate, as was demonstrated In conclusion to the debate on Oral Question No. by the speeches made, that this is an exception- 19172 I have received no motion for a resolution. ally complicated problem. As Mr de la Malène said, we must not rest on those things laid down Does any one else wish to speak? in the lreaty at the time when it was drawn The debate is closed. lulp; telle qu'elle est d;éfini,e ilaræ le traité. SIe must show ourselves to be pragmatic and demonstrate that the Treaty of Rome and the 8. Rengnati,on of a Member of the European Community are alive. The Community must Parli,ament move wit,l. the tirnes. Here is a particular issue wherg when the Treaty of Rome was signed, President. I have received the following let- there were specific things that were seen at ter from Mr- OeIe, dated 11 January 1973. that tiume, such as tariffs, quotas and the like, which were used in relationsh,ip with trade States General Geleen, 11 January 1973 agreements with the East. Those are novr things which are more or less of the past. Iime has Delegationstolnternational Bilderdijklaan 3 passed. We must adapt ourselves to this changed Parüamentary Assemblies situation. The Community as a whole has com- Mr A.P. OeIe mitted itself to a common commercial policy with State-trading countries. wills the end, If it Mr Walter Behrendt must be prepared to the means to that it will President of the European Parliament end. the means change, ttre ,methods must If Centre Européen du Kirchberg change. We must be prepared pragmatic to be Luxembourg rn this. Having said that, do not let us underestimate Dear Mr President and Colleagues, the problem involved. firere is a white area- there is no doubt about the responsibil- As a result of my nomination as mayor of Delft it-of the ity of the Community as a whole. At the other I am resigning from the Second Chamber of brings extrerme there is a black area w.here individual States General as from I Eebruary. This as a Member of the countries carr make their own individual arrangÈ to an end my term of office merrts with countries in Eastern Europe, and European Parliament. with which no one would wish to interfere. But This latter consequence in particular makes it there is a kind of grey area in between as to hard for me to take my leave of parliamentary what extent it does or does not have an effect life. The road to a European democratic system upon trade policies and upon a common com- has proved longer tJran we supposed at the mercial policy. beginning of our European journey but my faith in the future is unshaken. I would be tàe last to try to mislead Parliament into thinking that I saw this as a problem whieh I thank you personaüy and the Secretary- is going to be easily resolved by us all. I am General and all his staff for the support and fully aware that it wiII not be easily resolved. friendship I have had in Brussels, Luxembourg, But I am equally conscious that we must set Strasbourg and elsewhere. about and tackle this problem. f have no doubt that the COmmunity as a whole and, in partic- Yours very truly, ular, the Council of Ministers are determined to tackle this problem. A.P. Oele.

Fo,r our part, for the Commission's part, and in Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr Oelê has been Chair- particular for my part, let me a$rure the House man of the Transport Committee and a member that I am at the disposal of the Co,mmittee on of the European Farliament since 1965. I am External Trade Relations to discuss this matter, sure I speak for the whole Parliament in offer- realising the difficulties inherent in this prob- ing Mr Oele my congratulations on his appoint- Debates of the European Parüament

Presitlent ment as fnayor of the City of Delft and in upon the resolution relating to the procedures expressing our r,egret that we must forego his through which Parliament may associate itself invaluable cooperation and wide-ranging expe- with the conclusion of Community trade agree- rience at such an important juncture in our ments with non-member States. Community life. As stated in the preamble, the resolution v/as I am sure that in carrying out his new duties considered and unanimously approved by the Mr OeIe will remain equally loyal to the Euro- Political Affairs Committee on 4 and 5 December pean ideal and witl serve our common cause as last. It concerns a subject closely connected with he has always done. trade policy, a field that the Assembly has just been discussing. Naturally, it does not go into I call Mr Oele. the merits of trade agreements as this would fall within the sphere of the Committee for Mr Oele. (N) Mr President, you are too - External Economic Relations, but it does dwell complimentary. I feel that I have done no more on procedures basically relating to the functions than carry out the duties of my office and and powers of Parliament, bearing in mind that whatever has been made possible by the co- by "trade agreements" \ile mean agreements operation of my group associates, the readiness on tariffs, in other words agreements associated to listen displayed by my political opponents with the problem the Community's revenue ,and, of and colleagues in this Parliament last but and in consequence the Community's ov/n not least, by the tremendous cooperation of the budget. As a result, they concern the very splendid services of the European Parliament. povrers of Parliament as they relate to the Mr President, may I add that I find it hard to budget. say farewell to my work at the European level. I would be prepared to comment on this report, Many opportunities came my way because in a but I must iaform you, Mr President, that the certain sense the field of European politics is Conservative Group has expressed to me, both open to all who wish to labour there. as Rapporteur and as Chairman of the Political f am convinced that in the years to come there Affairs Committee, its desire to give this will be new opportunities which will be more subject, whose importance is beyond dispute, far-reaching and also demand greater deci- a little more thought together with ourselves, siveness than was the case in the sixties. the old members of the Political Affairs Com- mittee. I wish you, Mr President, not only as President of this Assembly, but also as a good friend, every Following consultation of Representatives from success in the relationships which we have other groups serving on the Political Affairs eshblished and I hope that the European Parlia- Committee, I thougth it opportune to accede ment vdll indeed grasp the opportunities to this wish. As a result, Mr President, I would which are at hand. ask that discussion of the resolution by the Assembly be deferred until the February part- From nearby-but that also means, of course, session. By deferring the debate, the Political from a certain distanc+I shall endeavour to Affairs Committee would have an opportunity keep in touch with this and that. to reconsider the resolution with the new (Applause) members of Parliament and the new members of the Political Affairs Committee at one of its forthcoming meetings-the meeting on 29/30 9. Irusoluernmt of Parli,ament àn the conclusion January or on 8/9 February-and of course of commerci.al agreements utith non-Member to consult the Executive Committee, in particular Mr Scarascia Mugnozza who deals with relations with Parliament, and Sir Christopher President The next item on the agenda is a Soames. debate oh- the neport by Mr Giraudo, drawn up on behalf of the Political Affairs Committee, This will mean that the subject can be debated on procedtrres for involving the European Par- during the February part-session when the liament in the conclusion of tnade agreements consent unanimously given by the Six will between the Community and non-Member become-as we all hope-the unanimous con- States (Doc.226172) sent of the Nine. I am of the personal opinion that discussion cannot be postponed beyond the present I call Mr Giraudo who has asked to tr'ebruary part-session, for it is vital that we his report. establish a clear operating procedure for Par- liament in this field, since the common com- Mr Giraudo, Rapporteuî. (l) Mr President, mercial policy came into effect on I January you have kindly called upon- me to enlarge 1973. For the very reasons advanced here a Sitting of rüednesday, 17 January 19?3 75

Glraurlo

few minutes ago in the discussion of Mr Perhaps we shall hear why garlic has not been Gliane's oral question, I believe it is important given preferential treatment. I loathe garlic but for the European Parliament to have adequate the Egyptians hoped that it would be given instruments to deal with the development of a such treatment. common commercial policy. For these reasons, Mr President, I would ask you to agree to the There are many examples of agreements in the proposal that discussion of this resolution be pipeline. I understand that the relevant com- deferred until February so that the neur mittee will be considering the trade agreement members of Parliament can make themselves with Israel in the next few weeks. We were told familiar with it and provide their contribution, by the President yesterday that there were to which we attach great importance, and so that agreements in the pipeline with Morocco, TuJtris, the opinions of the new representatives on the Malta and other countries. I am told that Jordan Executive Committee may be sounded out at has applied for an association agreement. I was ,)- the meeting of the Political Affairs Committee. in Syria recently and some interest vlas expressed there in this possibility. you President. Ladies and Gentlemen, have 'We were very glad to have the assurance from - Giraudo, just heard the statement by Mr Mr tr'ayat when questio4ed yesterday that he is Affairs Committee. Chairman of the Political available to discuss all these matters with the In pursuance of the Rules of Procedure, European Parliament. Agreements with coun- reference to committee is always granted when tries bordering the Mediterranean are only one requested by the committee responsible. part of the extending pattern of the Com- munity's trading relations. The Summit com- At the same time, I do not think postponing muniqué spoke of establishing a global approach this point on the agenda to the February part- to external trade by 1st July this year. This is session raises any serious problems. a daunting task in which the European Parlia- I call Sir Tufton Beamish to speak for the ment will certainly want to be involved and Conservative Group. surely has a right to be involved, as the Political Affairs Committee clearly implies. Tufton Beamish. (E) f am very thrilled Sir - There are growing signs of protectionism in the to be speaking as a member of the first British United States. There are the important and dif- delegation to the European Parliament. Standing ficult questions arising under GATT. T?rere is here in this hall brings back happy memories of the application from Norway for an EFTA-styIe making speeches here when I was chairman of agreement and the question mark over the a committee of the Council of Europe 20 years length of the transitional period. There is the ago. question of a Community approach to trade relations Comecon countries, to which would like to thank Mr. Giraudo for what he with I reference been made question has said, and I hope I will not be thought to has in the answered by Christopher. There is, too, the be impertinent in any way in representing the Sir undertaking consult between ourselves in views of the Conservative Group if I comment to making such agreements, not actually to on the very useful report that his committee if coorünate. has put in front of us and on his speech. The President of the Council drew our attention I[e have to clear our minds about how Japan yesterday to the political importance of trade fits into all this and about trade patterns a§reements when he referred to the Association with China. There is the Yaoundé Agreement Agreement between the Community and Cyprus. with all its widespread implications for other The details were not available, and I understand developing countries. There is no need for me that such an agreement had never previously to give any other examples because it is crystal been discussed by this Parliament or by any of clear that the political and economic importance the committees. Furthermore, the statement was of all these and other trade questions is very not debatable, though a question was permitted. great indeed, bearing in mind that as an enlarged Community we are now the world's Cyprus sherry exports matter a lot to this small largest trading bloc. Commonwealth country, and the Conservative Group would have liked a little more informa- Where does the European Parliament come in? tion and a litt1e more v/arning. In contrast, I That is the question to which the Political understand that tomorrow or the day after Affairs Committee addressed itself. Equally there will be a report from the Committee on important, when do we come in, and how? Agricu,lture on the preferential trade agreement With great respect to the work that has been with Egypt where rice and citrus fruits are con- done, I suggest that this question must have cerned and that this will in fact be debatable. more careful and fuller consideration. All kinds Debates of the European Parliament

§lr Tufton Bea,mtsh

of questions occur to us in the Conservative This will ofteu be the same for many of us as Group. Are we before long to have powers of the opinion of our Governments but not neces- co-decision with Coun«i1 of Ministers where the sarily so by any rlêânsr and that, I think, will ratification of internalional agreements is con- be agreed too. ceraed, as proposed jm the signüicant Vedel Report? \Mhat is the fate of that report? I know I recognise, therefore, that we are on deücate that the outgoing Commission thought it would ground in rliscussing this subject. We are grop- be wrong to express a,n opinion on it and that ing for the right and the sensibl,e powers to be the new Commission has not had the time to used in responsible ways in a critical field. consider it. Tÿe certainl.y hope that it v/itl not be The Political Committee's request Iong before we know the views of the Commis- Affairs seen§ sion and the Council of Ministers about this to the Conservative Group to be not far-reaching important report. enough, nor quite positive enough nor-and I say this with real respect-quite clear enough If we are to have these powers of co-decision, in its drafting. I not+-I do not say this in any at what stage is the Errropean Parliament to be critical sense because I nrr sure there 'was a consulted and not mere,ly informed? Is there any good reason for it-that only 13 out of the longer a gap between the signature of a Treaty 28 members of the committee were able to and its ratification or what is curiously called attend the discussion which resulted in these 'final conclusions'? Hovr one can qualify the word recommendations. It goes without saying, as 'conclusion' I am not srrre. Is there a gap so that MlGiraudo has made clear, that there was no the run-of-the-mill trade agreements could be chance for any of the representatives of the sent automatically to l,he correct committee for three new member countries to express their its opinion? views.

If recommendation 2(a) in the report from the I do not know whether Sir Christopher Soames Political Affairs Comrnittee had been adopted, whom I would like to wish the utmost who would have decirled what is 'appreciable -tosuccess in the very heavy task he has taken on- change'in the Community's common commercial intends to reply to this debate in any way. poücy? Who has the initiative here, the Euro- Perhaps that is not so, as he was very willing pean Parliament or the Council of Ministers? and very quick indeed, when asked this morning This was not made cleerr. We should give careful whether he would be prepared to discuss this thought to that. Some major agreements must with the relevant committee, to say that he be conducted in total secrecy; we know that would. It may well be, therefore, that at this perfectly well. The European Parliament could stage he has no further contributiôn to make, not become a court of appeal but we must know but that is for him to decide. what is going on, tlrrough a committee or directly, at the appropriate stage, and the sooner I conclude by thanking Mr Giraudo most the better if we are to have any real inJluence warmly for his sympathetic reaction to the over trade agreements, friendly and constructive proposal that the Conservative Group made to him this morning It is surely the dialogue that matters, and that and for his ready agreement to refer this must be genuine if we as members of the Euro- question back to the Political Affairs Committee pean Parliament are to fulfil our dual mandates for the reasons I have explained. by taking a Community view which also takes full account of national interests and responsibiüties. Our object, Mr President, is the strengtheniag of Parliament's powers and our object is to give a brief example. Those of us in the I sdll ensure that any request we make to the Council British Delegation wh«r belong to the House of and to the new Commission should be practical Commons could not far:e our constituents or put and c1ear. our noses into Parliament at W'estminster if too hard a bargain were to be driven with New (Applause) Zealand, over its dairy' products at the end of the transitional perio«I. Nor, for that matter, President. I ernphasise that reference to would we get a friendJÿ reception in New Zea- committee -is alwayæ granted when requested land if we had not been given an opportunity by the committee req>onsible. at the earüest stage to express our views in this House. \Me must be consulted about such I would therefore ask all Members to confine questions early enough to have real inlluence their remarks to the reference to committee on the thinking of the Council of Ministers. and not go into any point of substance. Hre are here-I think ,3veryone will agree with this-to reflect parJiamentary and pubüc I call Mr Baas to speak for the Liberal and opinion from the count:ries from which ure come. Allies Group. Sitting of \flednesday, 17 January 1973 77

Mr Baas, for the Liberal anil Alltes Grottp. mittee. There can be no discussion on this point. (N) Mr President, I appreciate the fact that But the debate has now come onto a broader -the Political Affairs Committee may wish to issue. re-examine this ,point. However, if that should regards reference other committees lor happen, I am of the opinion that there should As to procedure quite clear: be a combined sitting of the Political Affairs their opinions the is Committee and the Committee on External comrnittees wishing to be referred to for their Trade Relations. Naturally, we all agree with opinions must address their request to the Bu- the remarks made in paragraph I of the reau which takes overlapping responsibilities Resolution regarding inforrnation. However, in for the matter under discussion into account. view of paragraph 2 which sets out to what I call Mr de la Malène. extent and at which times the Commission wishes to be inf,ormed, I consider that the advice of the Committee on External Trade Relations Mr de la Malène - (tr') Mr President, I would is needed because commercial interests as well intervene very briefly to add my modest voice as political aspects are involved in such agree- to yours and ask that we end the debate here. ments. As the correct procedure is to refer the matter for consultation, there is no justification for our As reference is made to the mandate for entering into debate in detail. That could cause negotiation on possible agreemenLs which the us a considerable excursus and I regret that this Commission received from the Council, I would has already been partly begun. appreciate a combined sitting of the Political Affairs Committee and the Committee on I associate myself with Mr Baas in requesting External Trade Relations. The'President of this that in fact, either by the method which you, latter Committee probably agrees with this. yourself, have proposed of calling the Commit- tees into consultation or by the method of a joint I would v/arn you agâiust combing out the meeting, v/e arrange a'collective study of the mandate for negotiation at too early a stage matter. 'We are av/are of Articles 113, 235 and since, after all, great commercial intèrests are 238 of the Treaty and we have implemented involved. As long as one is negotiating one must them. That is what we should study in commit- remain \rithin a certain framework. tee if we wish to amend this procedure. But I would ask for the rule to be applied, namely As far as the mandate as such is concerned, a that we close the debate. After the appropriate good many restrictions have to be observed. will procedure for collective üscussion has been ask Political Affairs'Com- I should like to the adopted we shall be able to hold an organized before final agreement is mittee whether, the debate in the next part-sesion. concluded, it can request a discussion in Par- ]iament. I imagine that this will not be possible urithin the framework of the Treaty of Rome. PresidenL I call Sir Christopher Soames. Is the Commission willing to give Parliament - judge ? auttrority to the desirability of signing Sir Christopher Soqtnes, Vi,ce-Prendent of the I request the Political Affairs Committee to Commissisn of th,e European Communi,ties. (E) study this aspect. After all, one must not ask The last thing would intend do, view- of get; I to in for things one cannot that does not make the request of Mr Giraudo, is to extend the the sense. The signing of the agreement with debate. United Arab Republic has just taken place. The power is vested in the European Com- I would have been prepared to answer tÀe points mission and the ,Council. made by him today. I understand the reasons that led him to refer the matter back to the The European Commission will keep us committee. informed, that we know. The previous Com- mission also did so. If I have understood Mr However the usual channels or the normal chan- Soames correctly, the present Commission is nels-I do not know whether that is a current certainly ready to do likewise. I should be phrase in this Hous*decide it should be done, obliged if the Political Affairs Comrnittee would whether by one committee or a combination of put the question as to whether or not Parliament committees, I need hardly say that I shelt be may give a valid judgement to the Legal AÏfairs at their üsposal to rliscuss the matter with them Committee. before it is brought before the House again. (Applause) Pre,sident Ladies and Gentlemen, in accordance with the- Rules of Procedure we have only President In accordance with Rule 26 of the to take note of a request for reference to com- Rules of Procedure,- reference to committee is Debates of the European Parüament

President

granted as of right. I therefore declare the to the other forms of transportation to which discussion on this item on the agenda to be our attention has been drawn by the Treaty--in closed. other words, rail, road and navigable waterways. It should, however, be borne in mind that there 70. Deasion on a carnrnon approach to air were discusisions in the 1960's with a view to tra',osport achieving Air Union. These broke down for various reasons, including the fact that negotiations were too protracted since the process President. The next item on the agenda is the was fairly ambiti'ous for the time. Nevertheless, debate on -the report by Mr Noè, drawn up on we would like to say unequivocally that the behalf of the Transpolt Committee, on the pro- step we iatend to make is far more modest: it is posal from the Comrnission the European of a minimum measure, whose purpose is to dem- Communities to the'Council for a decision on the onstrate a desire for more cooper tion in this measures r:ommon approach air first of a to field. After lengthy discussion in oommittee, we transport (Doc. 195/72). are of the opinion that we can no longer confine I would remind the Elouse that speaking time ourselves to the Atlas or Kuss projects, set up has been limited as follows: for reasons associated with the new aircraft and the new engines and their maintenance, nor can - 15 minutes for the rapporteur and spokes- we limit ourselves to the Montmartre group men for Political Clroups, which attempts to formulate a unified approach to the problem of acquiring new fleets. - 10 minutes for otber speakers, 5 minutes for speakers on amendments. This is the point: we must enter into the field of operational management, in other words into I call Mr Noè who has asked to present his a concept of a European network from the opera- report. tional point of view, one that has been neglect- ed up to now. This is the core of the problem and we are bringing it to y,our attention. The Mr Noè Rapportanr.-- (4 Mr President, Vice problem is to achieve European, solely European, President of the Commission of the European air traffic: intercontinental traffic will continue Economic Community, fellow Members: in tJlis to be excluded from our analysis, as is the session which marks the enlargement the of iaternal traffic of Member States. Our attention Community, a session which has, to the delight is directed towards European inter-city traffic. of us all, taken on a clear political significance, 'We trust that we shall be able to move avÿay am in the position o.E having to submit before I from the current system of bilateral traffic- you a matter relating to a specific sector, and based on an aircraft flying from Brussels to therefore a matter the.t is not entirely political. Rome, for example, and then back to Brussels- Nevertheless, I believe that I am doing something to a system based on circular flights. This is the useful, since it is only'by the sum of achieve- point on which a decision should be taken and ments in individual sectors t.Lat we can pave to which we should Iike serious attention to be the way for such political advances as the given. enlargement of the C,rmmunitÿ, and since this subject, a subject that affects an international I believe, Mr President, that one of the basic network, has political aspects of some tasks of politicians in these times is not so much signifieance, as we shall see. Furthermore, to solve new pro'blems raised by technological enlargement raises the problem in an even more progress and so many other factors, but rather pressing fashion, for t,he air space now covered to attempt to arrive at a solution of those prob- by the Community is sr far closer approximation lems by an adequate, modern method. to the air space of Eu,rope as a whole. From a cultural point of view, f am surprised This observation affords me an immediate at the comparison between the current network, opportunity to reassurer my fellow members from which is bilateral, and the desired network in the new member countries meeting with us for which certain sections could in fact be operated the first time this wer:k: the step we intend to bilaterally but where the majority of flights take is a small one. If the measures we were to would be circular. Such a comparison should, propose here had been wide-ranging, we should however, be made, especially for the benefit of obviously have prefer.ced them to take part. in the populations concerned so that the best solu- the process of draftirrg. \Mhat we are in fact tion may be adopted. This is the crux of t}re doing is opening the door provided to the matter. I have mentioned the cultural viewpoint: Council by Article 84 (2), which allows it to all my colleagues know the problem of the deal with air and with sea transport, in addition commercial traveller, which I shall state very Sitting of Wednesday, 17 January 1973 79

Noè briefly. It is a problem typical of the 19th century public gallery now (and I am happy that he is when a commercial traveller was first faced with listening to this debate); he could have come to the problem of working out the most economical Strasbourg by air rather than by car had these route taking in many towns at which he would national, star-shaped networks been interlinked. try to sell his wares. From a mathematical point rtre might consider the creation of a general of view, the problem was not finally solved until pool of all aircraft so that some form of opera- very recenUy, in 1960. Apart from this problem, tional reserve could be set up, as this would however, there are other more pertinent ques- certainly be a great advantage. tions. 1965, for example, in the course of a In These, honourable Members, are the points symposium in Rome, three American specialists the course of commit- presented their plan for the optimisation of that have come to light in tee discussions. Problems of this kind ob- transport between American iron ore ports' The viously multifaceted. Consideration should"tu also was not shipped from one port to another ore given problem of the European aircraft the basis of an optimum be to the haphazarüy but on the Commission-to the best of distribution. The solution to this iadustry which system of my knowledg*is tackling but which we have problem has some bearing upon the subject under not dealt with because we have been occupied consideration here. with the management aspect. Ttris, then, Mr President, is an initiative taken by Parliarnent' Another problem that has already had some because the Transport Committee acting indepen- here in this House is that of remote repercussions dently has raised the subject for discussion. I control data processing, a subject that we dis- note that the Commission has submitted a reso- cussecl Luxembourg a few months ago. The in to the Council which is similar in outline problem certain features lution mathematical shares we should like to see. In reality, those under discussion: the optimisation to what with however, this was an independent initiative on network computers, centres receiving of a of the part of Parliament. certain data and transmitting other data, is very similar in some respects to the problem of air- Speaking of these problems, I must make a brief ports with aircraft landing and taking off. One mention of the problems of safety and those method of approach already exists, therefore, arising from hijacking-in fact, they are dis- and we are merely asking that it also be applied cussed in the report-since they affect the to the case under discussion. I should like to add administration of an air line. to this proposal that we can impose specific conditions: using the problem-solving technique, Mr President, on the question of safety I shall $re can say that this network vÿiII achieve its say no more here than that an analysis of the optirnum provided that, for iastance, specific figures for the past few years gives rise to a daily flights are planned for specific centres at measure of optimism, although 1972 was unfor- specific times. tunately a year that marked a slight rise in the accident rate. But since these factors should be We cannot impose too many conditions, but we looked at as a whole, I believe that, comparing can say that certain requirements must be the accident trends over the past few years, the satisfied. I say this because we believe it to be number of accidents and the number of flights a basic concept for the achievement of better and passengers conveyed, we have some grounds use of the whole air fleet. Based on a discussion for optimism for the future. of this problem by the Transport Committee, the objective has been stated of recommending a Since, however, we must continue to spur on European air time table to provide the best the technicians to bring about further irnprove- possible service for the European passenger; ments, I shall merely state the need for grepter in the fiftieg the companies considered air traffic respect of air space. I shall make this one to be a means of conveying passengers to the comment: throughout the Community airports points of departure for trans-oceanic flights' should be equipped with a dual radar system. A Today the residue of this old attitude persists, single radar unit is not sufficient to enable air- but we must think of Europe as having a net- c.ait to fly closer to each other: two are needed. work designed to serve the European passenger. If one radar breaks down, the aircraft would This is the crux of the matter. be in difficulty due to lack of guidance. Another problem is that of flights between places In addition, there must be more than one source on the fringe of the national networks, which are of electricity: there must always be generator often star-Iike in shape. For example, we all units to provide power if the mains supply fails. hope for a flight from Frankfurt to Strasbourg This extension of technical facilities to the whole as it would save time for many of us here. I Community space is one more step to be taken know that the Chairman of IATA is in the before we have the means of tackling situations Debates of the European Parliament

Noè

which might become ,critical in the absence of on a far higher rate per kilometre to go on to such surveillance. another European centre. I should like to remind the Assembly of the This fact has caused alarm, to an extent justi- very recent proposal by a special U.S. presiden- fiable. committee measures be placed before tial that Mr President I have raised this subject-an& I Congress which would enforce stricter specifi- shall be finishing very soon{nly to point out cations for the construction aircraft engines of that there may be some solution to the problem: and other assemblies. aircraft from a review of the figures for the past few Based on experience acquired as the result of years, we note that in 1970 very nearly 10 million passengers any accidents that may oceur, ï/e can be stricter crossed the Atlantic by air. Of these, in accepting certain aircraft parts. 71.6 per cent travelled on scheduled fiights, while the remainder (28.4 per cent) went on The question of hijacking is obviously,a delicate charter flights. The percentage of charter flights matter. It is being debated in the U.N., where had been steadily rising over tJ:e previous few one proposal has been put fomrard by the Unit€d years, as it did between 1970 and 19?1, the year States and another by F'rance: the aim of both in which it reached its peak of 30.9 per cent. is that any measures should be adopted by all The important fact, however, Mr President, is +his basic point which states-and is *re with this: between 1971 and 1972 there was a per- ourselves. Ob- I believe we should associate centage drop in charter passengers and the pro- gap the viously, if tl,rere is one or one failure on portion of scheduled flights started to rise. It part one states compared with the of or more now stands at a total of.72.6 per cent. There has would be- conduct of all the rest, the measures been an increase of almost a million and a half come valueless. believe that this Parliament I passengers compared $rith 1971. In addition, the should concur with the appeals made by the number of charter passengers flying on aircraft pilots essentially pilots' associations, for are owned by the regular air lines is increasing. The citizens who are entitl,ed to work in conditions phenomenon is less serious, thereforg than it humanly possible. States should of safety where seemed a few years ago, especially in view of the these acts of take concerted action to deal wità fact that a more or less standard set of regula- piracy, greatly deprecated by us all. so tions was defined in 19?2 in Canada (for example, I shall not dwell upon the subject, but before passengers must book tickets three months concluding may I, Mr President, mention a sub- beforehand, etc.). This means that certain price jeet tJlat has come to tàe fore over the past ditferentials between charter and schedtüed few months and t,I.at is highly topical. Ihe flights may still be feasible and tolerable in some subject, only touched on in the report, is the cases, thus allaying fears to a certaü extent. elfest of charter fights on airline flights and I would conclude by reminding us all that one of upon fares which, a§t you tctow, have undergone my colleagues on the Transport Committee is an upheaval. looking into the problem of fast hovercraft and other tytrles of transportation: in future years In a few months' time the companies will unfor- rhis huâtely no longer be bound (let us hope that there may be'great competition in sector. greater competi- this point will be overcome) by a general agree- I think that this should lead to companies. tÀe least ment to the effect that fares are to be determined tion among S/e do not in hope but a reducËon by common consent. for a return to Air lfnion, in the number of Europeaa ccrmpanies might be This fact has not occurred, mainly because of desirable. the implementation of charter flights in Euro- I conclude my contribution by associating myself pean air spaee. Here I eonfess that when I first with the greetings you are sending to Mr Oele, have took on these problems I would never Mr President, and by adding my personal thanks passengerÀilo- lmagined that the number of for the help he has given qrith this report. On metres for charter flights in our Community behalf of the Christian Democratic Group, I must general q/as and in Europe in so high-about express our appreciation of his cooperation over per 50 cent. all these years. 'We hope that he will find even But this is not the issue: the issue is that of greater satisfaction as Mayor of the City of chartér flights over the Àtlantic, for there has Delft, and we know tJlat we can always count never been and still is not a minimum fare. In its upon him as a friend of Europe. absence, there has been an element of instability (Applatse) in determining prices. A passenger paying a very low fare from New York to London will rmder- President I call Mr Jahn to speak for the standably be reluctant to pay a price based Christian Democratic- Group. Sitting'of \trednesday, 17 January 1973 81

Mr Jahn. (D) Mr President, ladies and gentle. worthiness, clearance and registration of aircraft, men. On- behalf of the Christian Democratic and chartering of aircraft. These are indispen- Group I should like to thank our colleague Mr sable necessities for the safe transport by air of Luigi Noè for his excellent report. We know all our citizens. that he has devoted a great deal of work to this task; it has taken two years to oollate all the We hope very much that the international nego- relevant data. He has undertaken a great deal tiations now proceeding on standards of air- of research to enable him to express an opinion, worthiness for transport aircraft and their en- which we now have before us for decision in gines will soon be concluded, and consider that the form of a report. what applies to transport aircraft should be extended as soon as possible to cover all air- A study of the resolution and of the reasons craft types, including transport aircraft in the underlying it has convinced us all that joint European field. action in the field of aviation is necessary, as existing European air transport does not in fact In addition, we must establish a uniform stan- meet the demands made on it. dard of equipment in aircraft. Mr Noè referred to this in connection with safety regulations It is repeatedly asked whether a common avia- using the double radar system on airfields. We ' tion policy is reconcilable with the policy on know that both the use and the performance which existing international air agreements are of electronics in aircraft are far from uniform. based. As members of the European Parliament Consequently we must standardize equipment. we cannot accept this. Coordination must cover inspection and safety regulations and all other measures. In Sections 25-29 of. his report Mr Noé has also given detailed reasons why this is not possible. In order to coordinate all safety regulations, the Both economically and in the integration context operating rules must be legally enforceable. European aviation policy is subject to our Anyone who has the national aviation bureau in Community, and therefore to our common re- his constituency will, whenever there is an sponsibility. Any economic solutions introduced enquiry into an air accident, be confronted by by us within the Community affect the entire the many and varied problems which are due continent, and there can be no exception in the entirely to the absence of European cooperation, case of aviation. We feel therefore that a common as very many mea§ures, if the limits are exceed- European aviation policy must be developed as ed and the individual monitoring measures are an integrating factor in common transport policy, examined,. are at fault, as we discovered in the such as is demanded in the resolution before us. Bundestag when investigating a particular case.

Nor does such a policy of common action as we rü'e need universally binding rules for all areas in Parliament demand conflict with the aviation of safety. At present the amount of variation in policy which we conduct in and with existing individual Member States is so great that it international agreements. can no longer be tolerated. I therefore fully share ,colleague's small On the question of circular traffic, to select one my opinion that it is only a step, but that if we could take it, this Resolution aspect, rrye agree with our colleague Mr Noè. He great has explained the reasons in such detail that and its implementation would be a step there is no need for me to go into them again. forward. Permit me to make a few comments on para- I should also like to draw attention to testing of graph 10 of the proposal for a resolution. This flight staff in regard to training, experience deals with the safety question. We mention and fitness for flying. We need standard rules supervision of the upper and lou/er airspace, the for training and examining throughout the common use of the Eurocontrol organization and European area. If you were to study the matter anti-sabotage measures. Indeed it is just in these more closelÿ, ÿou would find that conditions of sectors that cooperation between Member States admission vary widely. As the airspace in the must, in our opinion, be pressed forward. The European area is not equal in height, difficulties pre-condition is that the existing aviation bu- may occur, for which one day we should have to reaux, or national inspectorates, together with take responsibility. the national safety organizations, reinforce their me word collaboration and proceed beyond the exchange Allow to say a about economy. From economic point of information stage to definite agreements. the of view we should be well advised to coordinate èooperation in research and Such agreements must include all immediate developrrient in the aircraft industry step by safety measures, such as the safety check of all step. We know the difficulties and need not aircraft, Iegal regulations and certificates of air- go into them in detail. For reasons of national Debates of the European Parliament

Jahn economy we cannot afford to have the same new phase in European cooperation in which we research work going on side by side in several have to deal with an enlarged Community and Member States. which has been joined by a number of countries which are, to a not unimportant degree, linked Particular attention should be given to charter with an aviation company which plays a great traffic, not only as regards price structure be part in air transport, both within and outside tween scheduldd airlines and charter companies. Europe. That makes discussion Common rules for this charter the both topical traffic in Europe and are essential. interesting. It is in my capacity of Chairman of the Transport A word about environment policy and pollution. Committee that add new phase is Our rapporteur is right. I quote him: I that the marked by the fact that the committee which is "It is apparent that environmental pollution responsible for transport is joined by a new and noise in the vicinity of airports are member, Mr Scarascia Mugnozza. I have already assuming proportions which call for legisla- had the opportunity of congratulating him in tion. Further, it is to be expected that, if writing on his new post, and I would üke to aviation enters the supersonic age, not only confirm this here. I believe that this new field the vicinity of airports, but all the areas will afford him also the opportunity of making overflown will be exposed to supersonic progress in transport integration in the Com- boom", munity. I agree with Mr Noè when he says that solutions In thus greeting the new Commissioner, who may be sought in aircraft construction, in the incidentally is not unknown in our midst, I would layout of airports and in the choice of flight not Iike to omit the presence of another personal- routes. Standards should be either international, ity who has won his spurs outside the European or at least for European airspace. Common rules Parliament by his efforts in the field of air are needed. \Mhen they have been established, it transport, namely Mr Hammerskjôld, representa- is possible that non-Member States too-leaving tive of IATA in Geneva and Director of the aside transit traffic-could be induced to accept European section of IATA. His presence here these rules. On the zubject of hijacking, our view is proof of his support for the efforts of this is that we can effectively d,eter assailants and House to further the integration of air transport kidnappers only if we can establish world-wide in the Community at the political level. agreement. Through UNO we can certainly My Group admits that there is a certain anomaly, advance a step by non-provision of asylum, or that there shortcomings-and I express standard application of severe penalties. are myself carefully-in the organization of the \Me also approve paragraphs 11 and 12 of the present day air transport, and it also recognizes Resolution and chapter fV of the reasons for the the need for tackling this at the political level. way to a corunon air traffic poliey. Those who would be inclined to express themselves in a more forthright manner would say: Mr President and colleagues, once again I thank "Actually, from a European point of view, Euro- our colleague Mr. Noè for his excellent report pean air transport is organized in such a way and the course he has charted with the resolu- that one could speak of a mild form of insanity. tion and I wish to say that my Group supports This is perhaps a Eurocentric view, but it is a this resolution. fact that nowadays when one wants to fly to (Applause) New York or Chicago and one pays part of the price in advance and books a seat well in President. I call Mr Oele. advance, one pays the same or even somewhat - less than for instance for a flight from Amster- dam or Copenhagen to Naples or Catania. This Mr Oele, the Socialist Group. (N) lor Mr is very odd, even to some extent lunatic having President, the discussion this subject- comes of regard to the differences in distance. at an exceptionally opportune moment. 'W'e now see that the introduction of the 'wide body' It is even stranger, when one bears in mind planes affects the overall surplus capacity and that it is easier to travel in one day, that is in the mutual relations between the aviation com- 12 hours, from Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam or panies in tariff policy. 'We are more than ever London to one or other of the state capitals of arrrrare of the defects and bottlenecks connected the Middle West of the United States than to with aviation companies organised on a national a regional or provincial capital of France, Italy basis. or Southern Germany. This is food for thought. There is another reason why we can speak of an Naturally, there is method in the madness, the 'exceptional moment'. \ü'e are embarking on a system of aviation companies organised namely Sitting of \trednesday, 17 January 1g?B 83

Oele on a national basis, according to which the com- the sound, pragmatic and technical manner in mercial framework is limited to and determined which he has tackled this matter. by what is considered to be important from a national point of view and by the nationally Mr Noè's conclusions point, not only to a logicd organised aviation firms. All schedules projected and pragmatic approach, but also to a number on the map have their start and their finish in of fundamental points of policy. the national capitals. It is only seldom possible to get good connections from these capitals to There are, in fact, two points. The first is the regional areas over the border. necessity for a certain control of capacity which, under certain conditions, should also inelude My Group would not think this a great calamity charter transport to guarantee the maintenance if it were confident that the recent great reduc- of scheduled services. That has always been one tion in the prices of transatlantic flight would of the most essential elements in transport lead to a similar reduction in intra-European policy, and it will also be the case as far as air transport. Unfortunately we do not entertain transport is concerned. The expression "control any such hope or expectation. If there v/ere a of capacity" is a comprehensive one and one reduction in prices for the European consumer, we are resigned to using. It is in fact one that we would have to see its effects for the European can only be transposed into the context of a taxpayer. Already the aviation companies are policy, if this policy can be initiated and carried clearly drawing attention to the fact that the out by a political body. One should not ask avia- fall in prices on the transatlantic route will tion companies to achieve control of capacity in adversely affect their activities at budget and the context of mutual relationships. It is a trading levels. Taking into account the structure political responsibility, and this seems to me an of many aviation companies it is the European important starting point for framing policy. taxpayer who will ultimately have to meet the resulting losses. W'e know that the Commission of the European Communities novr wishes to arrange for regular If there is an authority which can consider itself discussions under its guidance, within the Com- responsible for these budgetary consequences, it munity, between the aviation companies on its is Parliament. It seems to me that in this case, proposal. the European Parliament also should have some power. ïl/e believe that these talks can only lead to a sound policy if the Commission takes the re- I can imagine people objecting that one should sponsibility for proposals on capacity control. not put too much emphasis on European air This does not only mean that it should follow the transport, since it has too many disadvantages. discussions but that it should have its own ideas Mr Jahn has pointed out the great disadvantages on this matter. Iil'e are grateful to Mr Noè for of noise nuisance and noise stress connected with making this point. We believe that his way of airfields sited near big cities. There are indeed approaching this problem has meant a start to expectations arising from the introduction of Parliament dealing with it, and that the latter other methods of transport which will presently must follow it up. We must think about this. make it possible to put intra-European air trans- That will also be the task of my successor. W'e port in the background. One thinks, for example, ought to examine more closely how eapacity of the use of superfast trains. When we have the control can be achieved in European air. trans- certainty that superfast trains can be introduced, port. on an efficient basis, over the entire area of the The second point of fundamental importance is Community, including Great Britain and the 'landing Channel tunnel, then, in the long term, our rights, At the moment this is an even interest in European air transport can become more topical one than capacity control. We know marginal. However we do not have this certainty that landing rights present no problems as far as because it is often much more difficult to arrange charters are concerned. It is a technical matter. superfast connections through mountains and It has been agreed that landing rights for because, for the present ïve are still thinking in charters will be renewed automatically. We terms of only one tunnel under the Channel, know also that bilateral discussions must take rvhereas more than one is required, if we want place on scheduled air transport. This means to achieve, with superfast trains, the degree of that according to the well-known principle of a frequency which is possible in present day air "fair return", a certain balance must be achieved. transport. Not only aviation companies but also Ministries of Foreign Affairs deal with all sorts of arrange- Taking aII this into account, we think Mr Noè's ments which are of such minor significance that initiative in attempting to open the debate afresh no official of a Ministry of Foreign Affairs extremely useful and we are grateful to him for should be involved. 84 Debates of tJle European Parliament

0ele

Well now, the proposal in the present report tr'or that reason I wish to say to Mr Noè that if seeks to free those frontier-crossing services I add certain items to the report which he has which are of purely European significance, and submitted to us, that does not imply any crit- to provide automatic landing rights when certain icism at all in conaection with his excellent conditions have been"fulfilled. This proposal work. seems to me to be fundamental. Consequently (Speaker conttnued, i,n Danish) we can soon, I think, achieve better provisions for the intra-European network. The Liberal and Allies Group is prepared to support the Committee's recommendation and Admittedly this is a form of transport which the notion for a resolution. We also think that it attracts relatively few passengers and which has is quite right for the area under discussion here not the commercial potential, instance, of for to be included in the work of the European intercontinental air-transport. That does not Parliament in relation to transport-where it alter the fact that it is of fundamental impor- belongs. tance for further unification ancl integration, that greater attention be paid to frontier crossing 'We have taken note of the debate which took and, inter-regional transport. place on the extract to which these are matters for the European Parliament. We request the Commission to adopt the proposal of Mr Noè and of the Transport Commission to To the arguments already put forward I would provide an outline agreement on landing rights like to add another one irr favour of this being for regional frontier crossing connections which a matter with which Parliament should deal, are, generally speaking, of purely regional im- This is that although the question of air traffic portance. This does not call for the difficult, is actually treated as a transport questlon, over cumbersome machinery of bilateral agreements. and above this it is really often-especially in What is required is simply an agreement on the the country I come from, so we have to pay Council and on the proposal of the Committee particular attention to this-an activity of an- to deal with these matters in a straightforward, other type as well. quick manner. The fact is that air transport is associated with Shou1d this be possible, then a significant step considerable commercial actiüty in the shape forward will have been taken. ff, moreover, we of production, in the shape of trade and in the can further build on the foundation of the forms shape of services. In order to illustrate the extent of technical and administrative collaboration of this-and I would once again ask you to already established by the aviation companies, I excuse me for introducing matters outside the believe that, in the 'Seventies, air transport argument contained in this report-I have only will develop much more favourably. to mention that in the country I come from, the (Applause) combination of activities at the national airport is so great that the group of trades employed there represents the largest conglomeration of trades in any one place of work in the whole IN THE'CHAIR: MR CORONA of Denmark. Larger, that is, than in any private Vice-Presid,snt firm. I am using this as an argurnent in support of my contention that even iJ there may be a Prosident. I call Mr Guldberg to speak for the formal aspect to the question-referred to in the Liberal and- Allies Group. report-as to where it really belongs, it is clear that the general provisions of the Treaty of Rome concerning protection against discriminatory Guldberg. (DIc) Mr President, Ladies and Mr treatment, a demand for non-discrimination on - you the Gentlemen, I address on behalf of a national basis, obviously also makes it necess- Liberal and Allies Group but first I should like ary-no matter how one views the narrovl trans- your indulgence for one or two personal to ask port aspect of the matter-for Parliament to deal remarks. with it as well. It is the first time that I have had the honour of So we in the Liberal and Allies Group are speaking in this Parliament; therefore I may prepared to support the committee's proposal. make mistakes, especially in mixing together the I would also like to mention that we would be standpoint which I am entrusted with presenting prepared to support the amendment proposed behalf group personal on of my and views by Mr Cousté. influenced by knowledge which I gained as a former Minister of Transport of a country that It is not inconsistent with this support that in was not a Member State of th,e Community when the course of our discussion I would like to men- the excellent report by Mr Noè was produced. tion a few complications which make me think Sitting of \lllednesday, 17 January 1973 85

Guldberg it would be practical-without holding up the flights-which is certainly an example of the rü/ork or today's resolution-to discuss certain way in which differing national regulations can matters in the committee with Mr Noè. I hope operate in a way conflicting with our fund- this will be agreed to. amental ideas about the Community which we are now helping to build. On the one hand, at a time when new countries you are entering, there are naturally some uncertain- Mr President, I would like to end by asking ties which it might be a good thing to discuss. once again to excuse me if in any of my remarks On the other hand, I would like to call your ooncerning the Assembly here, or the committee attention to the fact that this development,-the and Mr Noè, I have made the mistake-which lack of which was deplored in the Air Union would be due to ignorance of procedure-of plan-was clearly intended to create close bringing in other matters as well. I can assure cooperation, rationalisation in procuring equip- you that at least it was done with the best ment, its maintenance and use, personnel intentions, and I would like to thank you for training, cutting across national companies over listening to me. a wide area, etc., and that this system-which (Applause) then came to nothing, which is deplored-has been almost fully established in the cooperation, President. There is no call for apologies, Mr also referred to in the report, between IC[,IVI, Guldberg. -You are perfectly in order. IIIA in France, SAS and Swissair, which in practice purÉiue the same policy with regard to I call Mr James Hill to speak for the Con- equipment supplies and distribute the technical servative Group. work and training according to a system which is very close to the type of system we might Mr James Hill. Mr President, fellow delegates, hope for on a wider, European scale. I am extremely- proud today to be speaking in the Chamber on behalf of the Conservative I mention this, Mr President, to draw attention Group of the enlarged Community. I am doubly to the fact that the expansion which has now pleased to be talking on a subject of which I taken place does introduce some new problems. have some knowledge, having spent years on It means, among other things, that it will not the flight deck of an international airline. I hope be possible to the extent that it once was in to bring some of my specialised knowledge to the committee, when 6 countries were there, the Transport Committee. to regard air transport companies as more or less nationally administered-yet it is something We in the Conservative Group-I am sure this which can be organised through the govern- also applies to the lrish and the Danish deleg- ments. As soon as one introduces an air line ates, too-are extremely disturbed because we company in which the State holds a 500/o share, did not receive a copy of this document until but this 500/o is divided among sovereign states, Monday. f know, too, that the document was none of which can therefore inüvidually repre- not read in Lor:rdon until Monday. Ttis has left prepare sent a governmental alternative, it becomes us with less than 48 hours in which to necessary, if one wishes to get further along for a debate of some consqluence for air trans- the road we are speaking of here, to discuss port and associated ancillaries in the United the method of procedure itself in a litUe more Kingdom. detail. The Transport Committee and the Rapporteur, So I would like to emphasise-especially to Mr Mr Noè, have clearly put a great deal of time preparation Noè-that these remarks are in no way intended and effort into the of these interest- far-r,eaching proposals European to alter the proposal put forward, but to give an ing and for air growing ,opportunity for some discussion of the form in transport, an area of importance. lhe which work on these matters could continue. In committee has made a valuable contribution to relation to this I would also like to point out the subject and it is right that the Assembly should be considering proposals for action. on behalf of my Group that the proposal in the report contains a multitude of different tasks The draft resolution proposes action on many which we are glad to see heing tackled, but important issues, both complex and of great that it is quite possible that after more detailed public concern. Such action will have far-reach- disqussion it might 'be a good idea to consider ing implications. My colleagues and I are, there- establishing an order of priority among these fore, in some difficulty in not haviag had the tasks-as other speakers have also suggested. opportunity to consider these proposals in the I am thinking particulary here of the question, detail which they deserve and require. \Me already referred to several times, of the dis- recognise that the report on which the proposals parity between scheduled flights and charter are based was drafted in the light of a Com- Debates of the European Parliament

IIilt

munity composed of the original Six Member One of the grave statements in the report States. We therefore need to consider the effect concerns its fears that growing deficits may fall of the proposals in the resolution and whether on the shoulders of the taxpayers, particularly they fully meet the needs of air transport in if the switch-over is made to supersonic aircraft. the enlarged Community. No one here can be unaware that the British and the French have cooperated on the Some of the proposals are particularly far- . Con- corde and that at long last we are getting orders. reaching those dealing with the agreement In fact only yesterday the Chinese were at on bilateral- air serrrice agreements, with the Bristol, in England, viewing the multilateral approach to European air traffic Concorde, and we expect the signing of firm orders any services, with moves towards fewer European at time for f,60 million airlines which give worth of aircraft and equip- ; is to up its rights ?-and ment. In reply to for action the report I would say it may on issues such as air safety, hijacking, be those purchase and who the Concorde at this the environment, not to mention the irnpor- stage tance genuinely who may well turn their deficits into of a European approach to the profits. problems of European airspace. There are also 'W'e the manufacturing industries. have, too, according to the report to carry on a more efficient air service improüng not These issues all require careful thought. I would only technical but also operational and commer- like further time so that we may obtain the cial cooperation and performance. That is very opinion of those whose livelihoods depend upon easily done. You have already had the advantage this, such organisations as Scandinavian Air in Europe of three such groupings. I feel they Systems, Aer Lingus, BOAC, BEA, British Cale. must be going well, otherwise they would have donian Airways and many other airlines in the broken up by now. 'We must, of course, have charter business. The British Civil Aviation standardisation of European air services and the Authority, which was set up just over a year necessary aircraft but, if you can recall it, it was ago, and its subsidiarÿ, the British Airways this very point as to what aircraft Air Union Board, will need further time to consider this should have that caused the negotiations to report, which contains matters so important that break down the last time it was mentioned. in the United Kingdom Government they stretch over the Department of Trade and Industry and There is also the question of environmental the Department of the Environment. It concerns protection. We in the United Kingdom through the manufacturing industry of both airframes our company Rolls-Royce are trying to perfect and engines with the ever increasing industry an absolutely silent engine which will be the of aviation electronics. engine of the future. The RB 2118 is much quieter than other jet engines on the market There are, therefore, many views to obtain today. before my colleagues on the Conservative Group could possibly give full-hearted conseat to the One of the grave points of the report is that on report. On the other hand, we realise that this the one hand the committee says it wants to is an extremely interesting and vital report. It facilitate customs clearance at airports. In the has been in embryo now for just under two next breath it says that it is necessary to deal years. Naturally, every member of the commit- with the dangers of terrorism and hijacking. The tee that sat and served would like to see today two just do not coincide. I am afraid that while that it is passed through the Chamber with the vre are in this decade of hijacking, it will not least impedance. be possible to facilitate customs clearance. Cer- tainly the rules of charter flights have be Might mention to I some of the things I think we closely studied. I know that the Civil Aviation shoutrd examine in the light of the detay with Authority in London has been working extremely which the British Conservative Group received long hours on this very problem. A short time the documents? Certainly rve are all agreed, ago it was a fact that it was easier and cheaper having tried to get from London to Strasbourg, to get a plane to the States flying to that European United by air transport does not now Luxembourg. Such conditions do not make for' measure up to the requirem,ents of the market. commercial sense. These are the type of things It is quite interesting that in one of our national that in my view need a very close look. newqpapers when we left London Airport it was called the "pâté plane". This was an editorial My own view is that we have a great future in concerning the journey on the first leg of which a European airline, but it must be based on full from London to Paris we had half a glass of cooperation between the nine member coun- orange juice whilst from Paris to Strasbourg tries. This will mean a delay of some four to we had completely nothing. These are not the five weeks possibly to provide an opportunity conditions which I feel will attract the normal for our countries to examine this and advise the commercial market. delegates and, indeed, for the delegates in their Sitting of \{ednesday, 17 January 1978 87

Hilt wisdom to have time to decide whether or not extent and by what procedure appropriate pro- they wish to use this information. visions may be laid down for sea and air transport". \üe are going into this long, all-embracing report with little or no time and certainly with little I end the quotation there. In fact, we are not in or no back-up information to put forward on a sphere in which the usual procedures of consul- behalf of our prospective countries. tation of the European Parliament and of the I should like to think today that this report, if exercise of initiatives from the Commission are applicable. accepted, is accepted without a vote. I should I would point out that we are in a like to think, if it is at all possible, that it could sphere in which the Council, acting unanimously, be delayed until the Luxembourg session in should decide on the procedures and on the February. timing for approaching Parliament and the Commission with a view to the appropriate If neither of those two courses is possible, I am measures for sea traffic-with which v/e are afraid that in the circumstances it would not not concerned here-and for air traffic-which be possible for those who have not trad time to is the topic to-day. consider the document to vote in favour of it. It may be then that my colleagues in their wisdom ïn that connection I publicly express my sur- would wish to abstain. prise, so that this does not pass unnoticed, at the absence of the Council. Either powers exist I think this is a first-class report. It heralds a and this Parliament is considered to have some great future for a union within the aviation importance or powers exist and this Parliament world. After due consideration, I am sure I shall is considered to have no importance, in which come out with the same agreement as that case the procedure placed before us is meaning- expressed by the Chairman and Rapporteur. less. (Applause) Now, if I have correctly understood the matter- and I note the attention with which Vice-Presi- President. I call Mr Cousté to speak for the dent Mr Scarascia Mtgnozza is kindly listening European Democratic- Union Group. to my introductory remarks-, it is entirely clear that the Council Decision, as recorded in the 18 1972, shows pro- Mr Cousté (tr'). Mr President, the observations Official Journal of October gress, and would stress this, the same which I am about- to submit centre on three I but at comparison the fundamental points: first, the way in which this time limitations, by with all previously available material transport problem has been put to us; secondly, the mand- on air policy. ate given by the Council to the Commission in respect of air transport; thirdly, some Precisely because of the existence of these two comments on the document on which decision aspects, I should presently like to hear Vice- is based and the failure of Air-Union. President Mr Scarascia Mugnozza answer some of my questions. On the first point, I would first of all congratulate Mr Noè for the excellence of his report The first, still in connection with the mandate and emphasize its title, which has perhaps given by the Council to the Commission concerns escaped the notice of some members of this the timetable which the Commission is to follow Assembly. That title is as follows: "Report made with a view to arriving at definite conclusions. on behalf of the Transport 'Committee on the Now, on examining Article 1, I find that it is pr,oposal from the Commission of the European the duty of the Commission to enter into consul- Communities to the Council for a decision on tation with the Government experts and the the first measures of a common approach to air representatives of the airline companies nomi- transport", nated by each of the Member States for the 'W'e purpose of studying the measures to be taken at realise at once how far the very wording Community leve1 in the sphere of air traffic in of this d,ocument is influenced by prudence. fn order to implement procedures designed to any case, I should like to make clear a funda- achieve 'improvement of regular services within mental point, which is that \rye are within the the Community'but also 'a common approach in framework of Article 84 (2)-which is linked respect of policy on development of air links with paragraph 1 that states very precisely: between the Community an'd non-Member "The provisions of the present Treaty (the States'. Treaty of Rome) shall apply to transport by rail, by road and inland waterway"-whilst I would wish Parliament, in the light of those the text of paragraph 2 is: "The Council may, terms alone, to take the measure of the problem acting unanimously, decide whether, to what before us. And I, for my part, should like to be 88 Debates of the European Parliament

Cousté informed by the Commission of the means which and Europe there are at present no less than it proposes to employ and the procedures which thirteen European companies for that same it proposes to adopt for the purpose of achieving traffic. Because a priee rüar over the North that improvement of regular services within the Atlantic is being waged we know in advance Community and that common approach vis-à-vis that we are on the way towards allowiag non-Member States. increases in the deficits of each of those thirteen companies and in their inability to renew their That common approach is all the more important equipment when they should do so. in that it should take up the matter of policy on airline fares between Memher States. That The problem therefore has very wide implica- means, from a practical point of view, that the tions. In 1964 or in 1965, when the Council Commission-and I should like to know if such suddenly authorized the Commission, after hav- is indeed its intention-is to investigate why the ing prohibited it from doing so, to take up the price per air kilometre is always higher in Eu- Air Union negotiations, all the latter could rope than, for example, in the United States. A finally determine, as discussions took their question of consumer protection is involved, be- course, was that differences in standpoint-because there is increasing use of air transport tween the ,airline companies had arisen. It event- among Europeans. ually proved impossible to succeed in that endeavour to reduce competition in such a way A matter which also immediately causes me that this was to the benefit and not to the doubt is 'the third point in this mandate - detriment of the user. "harmonization, so far as necessary, of the legal regulations governing air transport". I thought, Nevertheless that was an important initiative, in- in my innocence, that only L{'TA could provide volving not only air transport but also landing us with some kind of assurance and harmoni- rights, to which reference was made just now, zation in that connection. and one which would have prevented the unwel- come aspects of competition between the airline Such is not the case if I correctly understand companies. Moreover, and as a fundamental the duty given by the Council to the Commis- consideration from the point of üew of the sion, and on that specific point I seek clarifi- influence of Europe, it would have placed the cation from the Commissioner responsible. Community in an excellent bargaining position Regarding the fourth point, the matter of vis-à-vis non-Member States, that is to say that "improvement, by conunon measures' of safety we would have obtained landing rights and in air transpott", our colleague Mr Jahn has probably a better position in all respects. just, quite rightly, emphasized its importance' Ttris is what I wanted to say and links up point of We can no l,onger, if only from the with what has been said by various Groups. view of the construction of these machines, con- Despite the discreet way in which this debate tinue in this kind of anarchy in which we find seems to be introduced, the fact remains that it ourselves at present as regards the arrange- has been introduced and we shall take it up in ments ensuring the safety of air transport. As the interests of Europeans. Transport Committee, this "';s Mr Noè stated to the (Applause) matter is linked with industrial policy in Europe. Vÿ'e are not discussi:ag theories or abstract prop- Europeans; President. I call Mr Noè. ositions today but the daily life of - that is what concerns us in this debate. Mr Noè, Rapporteur.- (D) For that reason I would say to our British Mr President, I have asked for say Mr Hill, who was asking just now for the floor to that having listened colleague to the this report to be deferred, that certainly this contributions of all the speakers in the report is very important but I wonder how it debate and having consulted the Chairman of the Committee, is possible for it to be deferred just when this I believe that the Conservative Group's request postponement debate is initiated on an excellent report and for of voting on part-session circumstances which, in my opinion, will the resolution-possibly to the at in Luxembourg-should granted enable us, within the Transport Committee, to be to allow these take up the initiative offered by the Commis- delegates and those of the other new Mernher States to problem greater sion, with excellent motives, I am sure, and to consider the at leisure, gone avoid a repetition of our unfortunate experience although the report has not in fact into problem with Air Union. the in depth. Having heard the opinion of the Vice-President ,of the Commission of the Let us remember that Air Union wâs a very European Communities, Mr Scarascia Mugnozza, interesting venture. fn fact, whereas there are voting on the resolution could be referred. This, five American airlines linking the United States Mr President, is what I would like to propose. Sitting of \lllednesday, 17 January 1973 89

President. Tffith regard to the motion to defer national groups of experts-to start reviewing voting tabled- by Mr Noè, I shall put this to the the whole problem of transport so that a series of House after the Vice-President of the Commis- coherent proposals embodying the requirements sion of the European Communities has spoken. of a sector in a period of transition may be placed before the European Parliament as soon as I call Mr Scarascia Mugnozza. possible. Turniag to Mr Noè's report, paragraph 10(c) of the resolution discusses the need to safe- eon- Mr Scarascia Mugnozza, V ice Pr esid,ent, Commis- guard the quality of life and therefore to sion of the European Communi,ti,es. (I) iider transport problems as a whole in the light Mr President, Members of Parliament, f must of the environment in which citizens are to live. express my heartfelt pleasure at the debate to point, I would add that very special con- which we have been listening. should like to On this I given to environmental prob- proffer particular sideration is being my thanks to Mr Noè for his which I have been en- presentation proof lems in the office with excellent of his report, a of not chance that I have been problem great trusted. It is by his ability to summarise a of such with the transport sec- proud given the task of dealing moment. I must emphasise how I am to the aim v/as that political requirements be speaking today as the person responsible, tor: should be considered as a whole: the European among other things, for the transport sector, a must not only be a more human concept duty with which I have been entrusted within concept but also provide the impetus for an enhancement the new Commission. I should also like to thank of the quality of life of its citizens, to defend Guldberg and who have spoken Mr Mr Hill natural resources and the environment-in on behalf their orü/n countries which have of other words, to deal with the problems of mod- now joined us in the European Community. The ern society. In this context I refer to a recent number this Parliament has of representatives at contribution by Mr Cousté in which he under- increased due participation par- now to the of lines the need to protect the citizen as a consu- liamentarians a vast political experi- who bring mer. ence and who have also shown outstanding professional competence in the course of their Bearing in mind the aim of consumer protection contributions to the debate. as part of environmental policy, transport was element that could give I should also like to take this opportunity, Mr alsô included as it is an rise to considerable concern and cause extensive President, fellow delegates, to thank Mr OeIe the field of aviation and above for the kind words he has used in referring to harm, both in transPortation. me and for the letter he was so good as to write all in urban me, although I regret that he has had to take a Mr President, honourable Members, in confir- decision which will result in his departure from ming my pleasure at the discussion to which I the European Parliament. I would like to thank navàfeénlistening and Mr Noè's report,I should him for his cooperation both in Parliament itself like to add that the Commission has noted with and on the Committee for Research, Energy and great satisfaction the favourable opinion ex- Atomic Problems where we have worked f,ressed by Parliament on its proposals, together so long. f am sure that he will transfer èspecially since the Commission itself submitted his Europe commitment to to his new office, and them to the Council in 1972' with this in mind I send him my special best wishes. I should also like to take this opportunity \ile believe that this is a necessary preliminary to thank Mr Oele for his good wishes when he step towards a common policy in the field of reminded us that vÿe are about to launch upon a aviation. And it is a very important step because new phase of activity in an enlarged Community, of the fundamental problems that have been in which the transport policy problem must be raised. viewed in another light. I should like to tell the House that over the past few days, in contacting This report proposes amendments referring to the Directorate-General for transport, I have actions that should be taken in the field of air seen for myself the need for a pause for thought safety, in particular on the uniformity of air- on the transport problem. With this in mind, I space control systems and rapid enforcement of have proposed that the Directorate-General be efforts already being undertaken to avert the organised to respond to the many new interests damage caused by sabotage and the trouble that have arisen in this vital sector. In view of caused by hijacking. Ttrese problems are of acute today's discussion, I can confirm that, at my concern. The first in particular merits greater request, a specific section of the Directorate- commitment on the part of Member States, for General will be directed towards the study and it is due to lack of agreement among them that negotiation of air and sea traffic problems. Over it has proved difficult to pursue the objective the next few months it is my intention-through we should all like to attain, that of Eurocontrol' Debates of the European Parliament

§carascla Nlagnozza

With regard to the prevention of acts of sabotage appropriate conclusions following the consulta- and piracy, this is without doulot an important tions which it will naturally have to embark objective; it has already been emphasised that upon. it is a problem on which specific agreement must practice, be reached in the various countries. It has been In there is the problem of Article 84 debated in several international conferences and, of the EEC Treaty: whether or not Parliament's as rrve all know, it is now being considered by opinion should be given. This is the crux of the the United Nations. The Commission is aware debate. I do not wish to enter into the merits of of the importance of these problems, especially a legal discussion which could become involved, the second which often has dramatic implica- but I merely wish to say that Parliament's view tions. Nevertheless, as already underlined at the is of extreme interest and shows that it is taking Transport Committee, these questions are being a lively part in the decision-making process, but viewed, at least for the time being, from a com- I do not know whether it is appropriate to set pletely different angle from the initiative taken aside a procedure open under the Treaties and by the Commission. f wonder whether the Eu- enabling us to intervene, in favour of a proce- ropean Parliament would consider the advisabi- dure as yet imperfect, a procedure discussed in lity of excluding these problems from its reso- the communiqué issued at the end of the Summit lution and making them the subject of a specific Conference in Paris with great emphasis, but on recommendation. We say this not because the which there are too many doubts and uncertain- problem should be shelved or because it is not ties. a fundamental one, but because we consider that Naturally we can discuss the best road to take introduction of factors not strictly pertinent to among ourselves. myself-and general For I believe I the outline put forward by Mr Noè may speak on behalf of the Commission would in this run the risk of compromising certain respect-I would merely say that in asking you solutions. rühile the Commission agrees with and to refer to Article 84, do so the general I in conviction fully shares the Rapporteur's view of that this is the only reliable method problem, of achieving the it believes that these two safety concrete results in Community transport policy problems a should be dealt with separately as at the present time. recommendation of the European Parliament to the Council. It may be objected that Parliament is thus excluded ; I would not agree. Indeed, I believe that On the other hand, the Commission has no diffi- I may even speak on the Commission's behalf in accepting amendments re- culty in the other affirming that Parliament will always be asked point that commended. The only I would raise is for its opinion. I believe that, on this basis, the we think it might be advisable for the draft de- Commission may avail itself of more appropriate EEC cision to refer solely to Article 84 of the legal instruments and ensure that any opinions Treaty, not Article 235, as we think it would formulated in Parliament on the work of the then easier approach and discuss certain be to Commission will, as in the past, bear some problems in the way vÿe intend. weight. The Commission also fully agrees to Mr Noè's Having said this, Mr President, I believe there is proposal for optimisation of the intra-European nothing more for me to add. I thank the House communications network. This was in fact the and hope that in the course of the coming year priority objective of the proposals submitted by 'l;he the Commission may be in a position to present Commission. f have indeed learned with a concrete plan of action for an effective trans- pleasure from Members of this House-the port policy. Chairman also present of IATA was on that oc- (Applause) casion-that the debate on these problems aroused keen interest. Fresident. I call Mr Cousté. It was the intention of the Commission to im- - prove air connections within the Community Mr Cousté. (F) Mr through its proposals. In this framework, any President, I wish to speak on two points.- discussion will find us open-minded and we shall be very happy to take part. First of all I should like to thank the Vice-president I believe that no special comment of the Commission for his statement in is called for connection on the points raised by the speakers preceding with Article 84. He has fully understood my precise aim speaking me except that I would like to repeat in of the way in my thanks which the matter put to Mr Noè and Mr Guldberg. was to us. The interpretation which he now gives regarding the applica- With regard to Mr Cousté's intervention, as im- tion of Article 84(2) to this debate is better than passioned as ever, the Commission will draw the the interpretation of a probable, but not certain, Sitting of V/ednesday, 17 January 1973 91

Cousté extension of Article 235 of the Treaty of Rome. restrict itself to weighing the pros and cons of, I take note of his statement. It is all the more and possible amendments to paragraphs of the important because it removes the doubt that we resolution. might have about the meaning of the letter from If we accept this limitation, the Transport Com- Council of Ministers, dated the President of the whose name I speak, can have no the way in which mittee, in 1? September !972, concerning objection to a postponement of the conclusion was put to us. the matter to the discussion, namely the vote on the draft My second observation concerns procedure' Our resolution. friend and colleague Mr Noè said just now that beforehand to Fresident. I call Mr Noè. he had consulted Mr OeIe shortly - find out if the debate could be deferred. I wish (I) Mr President, the to say, on behalf of the European Democratic Mr Noè, Rapporteur. - Union Group that having consideration for the Chairman of the Committee, Mr OeIe, has ex- arrival of our new colleagues we wish the debate pressed my own view: I too believe that in to be deferred until our next part-session, in Luxembourg we should decide only on the Luxembourg. Thus everyone will have time to resolution, since the general debate has been study the report fullY. closed. I should like to add that my British colleagues and those from the other new mem- President. Mr Cousté, in future would you bers of the Community may take part in the be so kind- as to wait until the Chair throws committee meeting to be held in Brussels some open the discussion on the reference motion. time between today and the Luxembourg part- session, because an exchange of views on the general debate Having said which I declare the resolution would be useful. closed. 'We it is agreed come now to the reference motion tabled President. - Ladies and Gentlemen, by Mr Noè. that the debate in the February part-session will be confined to the rnotion for a resolution call Mr Oele. I because the Chair has closed the general debate. Mr Oele. Chai,rman of th'e Transport Committee. The point now is whether the House is ready to (N) Mr President, Mr Cousté has cut the defei discussion of the various paragraphs -grass from under my feet and has in fact said of the motion for a resolution and the vote on what I wished to express, arriving however at a this motion for a resolution. slightly different conclusion. The legal aspect of would appear that the majority in the House Now that Mr Scarascia It this matter is important. favour of deferment but I must put the Mugnozza has promised to involve the European is in motion from Mr Noè to the vote. Parliament in further policy, in accordance with the procedure lajd down in Article 84 of the EEC I therefore put to the vote the motion from Mr Treaty, the application of Article 84(2) is actually Noè that discussion of the motion for a resolu- the best way. You will therefore find this tion and the vote on it be deferred until the Treaty Article mentioned in the resolution' We next part-session, in Luxembourg' had to come to that conclusion. Are there any objections? In regard to procedure, there must be no misun- is agreed. derstanding. That misunderstanding has just It been referred to by Mr Cousté. The present report is the first of a series of reports and is 71. Change in the agenda therefore an interim one and forms the beginning of a discussion which will take up much President. The next item on the agenda now of the time of the European Parliament. is the debate- on the report by Mr Memmel, It is usual moreover, in an interim report, for drawn up on behalf of the Legal Affairs Com- the conclusions to be of a general nature and to mittee, on the addition of a Rule 47(a) to the question cover a wide field. It follows that in a subse- Rules of Procedure introducing a time quent report the question will be dealt with in in the European Parliament followed by a a more detailed, specialized way, each part sepa- debate if so requested and on an outline imple- rately. I would like to ask our British friends to menting procedure @oc. 252/72). understand this method of working. I must however point out that a Political Group has asked to meet at 6 p.m. It therefore seems to me that in future the discussion should not range in the same brroad rÿvay The Chair cannot fail to respond to this request. over aII the parts of the report but should I therefore propose to close the sitting and post- 92 Debates of the European Parüament

Presiilent

pone the discussion of this last item on the Communities to the Council @oc. L72172) lor agenda until tomorrow. a regulation amending EEC regulation no. 805/68 Are there any objections ? with respect to arrangements for imports of beef and veal @oc. 241172) It is so resolved. report by Mr Vetrone, drawn up on behalf of - the Committee on Agriculture, on the propo- 12. Teæts of agreements recei,ued trorn the sal from the Commission of the European Cpuncil of Ministers Communities to the Council @oe. 208i72) for a regulation on the introduction and alloca- President. I have received from the Council tion of and arrangements for managing the of the European- Communities a certified copy Community tariff quota for frozen beef and of: veal under subheading 02.01 A II (a) 2 of the common customs tariff (1973) (doc.242172). - Agreement between the European Economic Community and the International Committee - report by Mr Vetrone, drawn up on behalf of the Red Cross on food aid in the form of of the Committee on Agriculture, on the cereal supplies to the peoples of Bangladesh. amended proposal from the Commission of the European Communities to the Council This document has been filed in the archives of (Doc. 183/?2) for a regulation introducing a the European Parliament. system of premiums as. an incentive for increasing beef and veal production and premiums for switching over dairy herds to beef 13. Agend.a for the neæt Sitting production @oc. 244/72). report by Mr Vandewiele, drawn up on be- Fresident. The next meeting - will be held half of the Committee on Social Affairs and tomorrow, -Thursday 18 January 1973, with the Health Protection, on the amended proposal following agenda: from the Commission of the European Com- munities to the Council for a directive on the at 70 a.m. and, at 3 p,m.: approximation of the laws of the Member At the request of the comrnittee responsible States on cocoa and chocolate products for human consumption @oe 216172). - report by Mr Reischl, drawn up on behalf of the Legal Affaires Committee, on the pro- Are there any objections ? posal from the Commission of the European I call Mr Memmel. Communities to the Council for a regulation concerning legislation for the settlement of Mr Memrnel (D). It is customary to commence labour disputes in the Community .@oc. - 26u72). on the following day with the agenda item which concludes today's sitting. Hov/ever, I accept the - report by Mr Memmel, drawn up on behalf suggestion to consider my report tomorrow under of the Legal Affairs Committee, on the addi- item 2, on condition that the Reischl report, tion of a Rule a7(a) in the Rules of Procedure which according to your announcement is to introducing a question time in the European be given precedence tomorrour, does not take up Parliament followed by a debate if so re- more than a quarter of an hour. I have to leave quested and on an outline implementing pro- just as do those who previously proposed the cedure (Doc.252172) deferment. Oral Question No 26172, with debate, of Mr - President. Cipolla and others to the Commission of the Mr Memmel, I do not wish to your- giving European Communities on the building up of dispute rights. In tomorrow's agenda, furthermbre, poiated excess stocks of butter and their use. I out that the responsible oomrnittee requested that the report by Mr report by Mr Klinter, - drawn up on behalf of Reischl should be the first item on the agenda. the Committee on Agriculture, on the propo- In view of the time available I think that the sal from the Commission of the European rapporteur will have an opportunity of satisfying Communities to the Council (Doc.25gl72) lor you on this matter. a regulation amending EEC regulation no. 1009/67 on the corrmon organisation of the Are there any further comments ? sugar market (Doc. 265172) (without debate). It is agreed. report by Mr Vetrone, drawn up on behalf of - The sitting is closed. the Committee on Agriculture, on the proposal from the Commission of the European (The sitting was closed at 6 p.m.) Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 93

SITTING OF THURSDAY, 18 JANUARY 1973

Contents

1. Approual oJ the mtnutes 94 Pounder, Mr Citarelli, Mr Dewulf, Mr Jakobsen, Mr Ci.polla, Mr Lard,t- Receipt oJ a peti,tton .... 94 noxs tt2

3. Statement bg the President 94 8. Resolution on the cornrnon organi.zation of the market tn sugar 4. Regulatton on labour disputes Resolution in report drat»n up for the Commi.ttee on Agriculture bg Mr Di,scussi,on of a report drautn up for Kli,nker agreed to uti,thout debate . ... r29 the Legal Affairs Comm,r.ttee by Mr Reischl. 9. Regulation on import @rrangernents Mr Reischl, rapporteur, Mr Va,nd,e- for beef anil ueal utr,ele, draJtsman for the oplnivn Dr Hi,llerg, Vice-Prendent of the Com- Dtscussion of report drawn up tor the mission oJ the European Communities. Comrai,ttee on Agriculture bE Mr Ve- Resolution agreed to .,.. 95 trone; Mr Vetrone, rapporteur; Reso- luti,onagreedto.... t29 5. Addrtlon of a neta rule in the Rules oJ Proceilure 10. Regulation on the Comnr.unltg tanJt quota for trozen beet and ueal Discussi,on oJ report drautn up for the Legal AfJairs Committee bg Mr Mem- Discussion of a report drawn up lor mel. the Committee on Agri.culture by Mr Vetrone; Mr Vetrone, rapporteur; Mr Memrnel, rapporteur; Mr Mei.ster, Resolutr.on agreeil to . .. . t29 for the Christi,an Democrati.c Group; Broeksz, Soctalist Group, Mr for the 11. Regulati,on on a sAstenv of premiums Baas the Li,beral and Allies Mr tor tor beef anil ueal producti,on Group; Si.r Derelc Walker-Smrth for the Conseroattoe Group; Mr Tri,boulet Di.scussion of a report drautn up for tor th,e European Democratic Uni.on tlte Commr,ttee on Agri.culture bg Mr Group; Mr Cipolla, Mr Dewulf , Mr Vetrone; Mr Vetrone, rapporteur; Mr Lef èure, Mr Scarasci,a Mugnozza, Vtce - Ai,gner, DeputE d,raJtsman lor the Prend,ent oJ the Commi,ssi,on of the opinion; Mr Richarts for the Chrtstian European Communities; Mr Cipolla, Democratr,c Group; Lord, St. Ost»ald Mr Memmel, Mr Broeksz, Mr Dewwlt. 98 for the Conseroatioe Group; Mr Briot Jor the European Democrattc Uni,on Ord,er oJ business Group; Mr Scott-Hopkins, Mr Brewis. 130

Mr Briot, Mi,ss Lulli,ng, Mr Briot .,.. 1rl 72. Change in the agend.a Mr Vetrone 143 7. Oral Questi.on 26172 wi.th debate: and thei,r u,se bui,ld-up of butter stoclcs 13. Regulatton on a sAstenù of premi,ums Mr Ci,polla, Mr Lardinots, Member oJ for beeJ anil ueal production (contin- the Commi,ssion of the European Cotn- ued.) muni,ti,es; Mr Martens, f or the Chri.sttan Democrati,c Uni,on Group; Miss Lul- Mr Lardi.nois, mernber of the Commis- li.ng for the Soci.ali.st Group, Baroness sion of the European Communities; Elles tor th,e Conseruatiue Group, Il/Ir Procedural motion; Mr Ci,polla, Mr 94 Debates of the European Parliament

Vetrone, Mr Héger, Mr Cifarelli; Pro- Discussion on a report bg Mr Vander- ceilural motton uithdraun; Motr,on utiele drautn up Jor the Commi,ttee on discussed,' Pr eamble agr eed. to ; Amend- Social AfJai,rs and Health Protection nlents No. 7 and Zlrets. to Para, 7, by Mr Vand,erutiele; Mr Vanderui,ele, Mr Scott-Hopki,ns, Mr Brr,ot, Mr Scott- rapporteur; Miss Lulling f or the Hopki,ns; Amend,ment No. 7 wi,th- Socialist Group; Mr John Hill; Proce- draton; Mr Vetrone, Mr Brr.ot, Mr dural rnotion; Mr Vandertoi,ele, îap- Vetrone, Mr Richarts; Paragraph 7 pofieur; Miss Lulling, Mr Lardinots. agreed to; Amenilment No. Zlreu Vote on the motion deferred, t49 agreed to; Paras 2 to 5 agreed to; Mr Houdet, Mr Vetrone, Mr Scott-Hop- t5. ReJerence to Committee . t54 ktns; Resolution agreed, to ... L43 16. Agenda the neæt ntting 14. Directiue on cocoa and chocolate prod- for ucts Mr Vetrone 154

IN THE CHAIR: MR BEHRENDT in his mother tongue and also to read all documents in his olvn language. This highly Presi:dent democratic principle of giving every delegate the opportunity to perform his work under the (The sitting uas openeil at 10 a.m^) best possible conditions tr/as not always, even when there were only four official languages, President. The sitting is open. easy of accomplishment. You can well imagine - that the task of our Secretariat has been made no easier by the addition of a further two 7. Approaal of the mi,nutes languages. Nevertheless, everything has been done to President. The minutes of yesterday's sitting - observe this principle at the beginning of 1973. have been distributed. For technical and material reasons, however, it Are there any comments ? has not been possible to preserve it entirely; the necessary staff was not yet available on The minutes are approved. 1 January 1973, and it will still take us some time to find it. 2. Receipt of a peti.tion In view of this situation certain measures must be taken and certain priorities fixed. President. I have received a petition on - As an immediate step absolute priority was Vietnam from Mr Feidt, Mr LaIIeur, Mrs given to the translation in six languages of Stevens and other members the of the staff of texts which must be voted on. European Parliament. Thus, all motions for resolutions awaiting a vote accordance Rule 48 Rules of In with of the at this sitting have been translated and Procedure the petition has been entered in the distributed. register as No. 2/72 and referred to the Legal Affairs Committee. On ,the other hand, it was not possible within the short time to translate the reasons for the resolutions, or to duplicate them. Therefore, 3. Statement bg the President the rapporteurs will submit all reasons for resolutions orally. President. Ladies and Gentlemen, The enlargement of the Community, which we have As regards the distribution of documents, every all welcomed, has raised a number of technical effort will be made to distribute documents as possible problems for our Secretariat. far as at the same time in all languages. It is already apparent, however, that owing to \ryithin our Parliament the first concern has these difficulties, it will not always be possible always been the fact that every delegate must to make the distribution at the same time. It has be given the opportunity to express himself therefore been decided that, should distribution Sitting of Thursday, 18 January l9?B 95

President be delayed by translation and duplication in labour mobility across frontiers. As a result the English and Danish, distribution in the other question arises of the appiication of different four languages wilI begin at once, while the national legislation for more and more contracts remaining versions will follow as soon as for work to be performed in a member country possible. other than the worker's country of origin. In the main these are cases where firm has I am convinced that f can count on the under- a branches in another Member State, which standing of you all, and for myself f can assure engages labour from the country of the employ- you that the Bureau and the Secretary General ing firm. There are, however, other cases, and will see that this situation, which is due to they too must be provided for, where workers exceptional circumstances, vrill remain an are occupied in another Member State, but are exception and that all steps be taken to will not on the permanent sta,ff of a firm in that ensure that it is as short as possible. country. Finally, I am pleased to be able to state that, The legal position varies considerably according thanks to the efforts of the Secretariat, and to the legislation in the inüvidual states. The despite very limited facilities, has been it result is that there may be a conflict between possible within a very short time to make social welfare legislation in cases where we available to our new colleagues not only all already have a uniform solution of the question documents shown on our agenda, also the but of which national law is to apply and the sup- following: the Rules of Procedure of the Parlia- plementary labour legislation. I have in mind ment in Danish and English, and in English the continuing u/ages payment in sickness, maternity Rules of Procedure of the Parliamentary Con- benefits and accident compensation. ference of the Association between the Euro- pean Economic Community and the Associated All this means that the freedom of movement African States and Madagascar, as well as a of labour within the Community may be handbook containing all resolutions on the endangered by this legal uncertainly. For this General Reports agreed to since the inception reason the proposed legislation seeks to establish of the Community, and the resolutions which objective criteria and standards airned at the concern the Parliament in the iastitutional field application of a definite practical labour law in and the powers of the Parliament, together with Member States, which will ensure exact know- the resolutions adopted since March 1972. ledge of the labour law which will apply. I consider the solution as submitted by the Com- I should like to take this opportunity to thank mission, for which I sincerely thank the Com- the staff of our Secretariat, especially our trans- mission on behalf of the Legal Affairs Commit- lators, our first British, Irish and Danish lady tee, very well balanced. I am convinced that it secretaries and the printing staff for the work will prove its worth in practice. The starting they have performed and for zeal their their in point is the system of labour legislation work. in force at the place of employment. That is the most (Applause) sensi:ble method, because it creates no contrast between the labour law system to be applied and the "lois de police et de srireté" applicable 4. Regulati.on on lqbour d,i,sputes at the place of emplo5rment. And all workers, both of other Member States and of the Member President. The next item on the agenda is State itself, are subordinate in the firm to a debate on thereport by Mr Reischl, drawn up urri-form system of labour law, so that no risk for the Legal Affairs Cornmittee, on the proposal of discrimination arises. In particular, the risk from the Commission of the European Com- is avoided that, in subjecting the worker to munities to the Council for a regulation on different labour law systems in the same firm, legislation for the settlement of labour disputes the particular national labour law system is in the,Community @oc. 261172). controlled by foreign capital, owing to the use of the home country regulations concerning I call Mr Reischl to present his report. foreign workers. Lastly, uniformity is established between labour law and the law of social Eeischl (rapporteur). (D) Mr President. security. Ladies and Gentlemen, -I should like to make a brief statement in substantiation of the written In principle, as I have said, the law of the place motion for a resolution now before you. of employment applies. Certain exceptions must, however, be made. The Commission has realized The Council regulation of 15 October 1968 which this and has made two exceptions. They apply, established freedom of movsment of workers first, to cases where a worker is transferred by within the Community has led to increasing the firm itself to a branch establishment in Debates of the European Parliament

Retschl

another Member State. The Legal Affairs Com- very grateful to the Commission for haviag mittee proposes supplementary clauses. This submitted this regulation. I express the hope that would mean that an employment contract may as soon as possible the Council will pass what establish in writing that, as an exception, and is, in my opinion, a very well-balanced regula- departing from the basic principle, the law of tion, thus ensuring freedom of movement in our the home state of the worker concerned, that is ,Community. the law of the legal domicile of the firm, is applied. Our wish is that this exception shall President. I call Mr Vandewiele, draftsman for apply also to cases where a worker is transferred the opinion- of the Committee on Social Affairs from one branch establishment to another in and Health Protection. another Member State, or back to the main establishment. Mr Vandewiele, DraJtsman tor the Opi,nion. - This case is intended by way of analogy. (iV) On behalf of the Committee for Social Affairs & Health Protection. Mr President, In the negotiations conducted by the Legal I should first of all like to -congratulate Mr Affairs Committee the Commission has stated Reischi most cordially on his excellent report its approval of such an amplification. I am and equally on his very clear comments. On convinced that it will do the same again today. behalf of the Committee for Social Affairs, which Article 4 is supplemented by a new paragraph 3, has given its opinion on the proposal for a as shown in the printed report. regulation, an opinion ithasnot yet been possible to circulate to Mernbers of the Parliament, I other changes Article 4 are of minor The in should like to put forward a few brief importance. The question is vrhat is to be the still observations. principle governing solutions to such exceptional cases. I too regard it as a good principle .that The problem that now concerns us was examined certain fundamental rules asi to the main by the Committee for Social Affairs back in establishment of the firrn shall always apply. 1967. In the report by Mr Pê,tre, concerning the There follows a long list. We wish to propose proposal for a regulation by the committee in two srnall additions. Not only sruspension of work the matter of free movement of workers within on Sundays and public holidays, but also the the Çommunity, the desire vras expressed that general rules shall applÿ, since there are excep- an Article 49 (a) be included in the Regulation. tions, whereby in certain finns work may be done on Sundays and public holidays. The Council was therefore expected to lay down provisions before 31 December 1968 to define Similarly, we wish to augment the group of the law applicable to disputes. specially protected personsi, e.g. to include severely injured personsi. Further, we intend to The Council did not take up this proposed propose 'that not only prohibitions, but the amendment in it.s Regulation (EEC) 1612 of general rules for protection shalt apply 16 October 1968 introducing free movement of universally. Here again the Commission has workers. The former member of the Committee, /", --q

Vandewiele tion refers only to l,abour law applicable to covers the case of the vÿorker who is transferred workers moving within ttre Community. A from the undertaking's registered office to one number of questions that were put by various of its undertakings abroad. It may be wondered members during the deliberations of the Social why no ,account is taken of those other cases, Committee therefore faII outside the scope of for example the extended transfer of a worker the present regulation. Mr Reisctil also wished from an undertaking established in the territory to draw our attention to this. of one Member State to the undertaking's head office in another Member State and transfer This applies for example to the application of from the one establishment to the other. Articles 14 and 15 of the French Cade Ctuil, a question settled by Article 3 of the above- !ÿ'e are concerned here with cases which are mentioned Convention, and also" to the dif- becoming more frequent due to the phenomenon ficulties regarding legal jurisdiction to which of international companies. The rapporteur has a migrating worker might have recourse should already drawn attention to this point. We note he wish on his return to his home country to with satisfaction that the Legal Affairs Com- serve a writ upon his former employer, in order, mittee proposes an amendment to Article 4, for example, to recover remuneration owing to paragraph 3, to take account of the said diffi- him by this employer. culties, which fulfils a desire expressed both by the Economic Affairs Committees and the The Committee for Social Affairs cannot but Committee on Social Affairs and Health Protec- agree with the territorial criteria chosen by the tion. Commission for the present regulation, which is to say that labour law to be applied must be With regard to the minimum protection guaran- that applying where the employing undertaking teed by virtue of the provisions of Article 4, is established. paragraph 1, clause 2a, to workers transferred abroad, it should be noted that several points These criteria do guarantee that the law will in the Commission's proposal are too limiting apply uniformly in respect of personnel employed in their drafted form. Article 4 of the proposal, in the undertaking. In addition, disputes are for example, mentions provisions prohibiting thereby avoided between native and foreign the carrying on of work on Sundays and public workers. The exceptions made will further holidays, while it would be more correct to enable specüied groups of workers employed speak of provisions regulating such work, which within an establishment or who are sent abroad may be permitted under certain conditions. for ,a limited period to choose which law shall apply to them and therefore if necessary to Mr President, we are therefore gtrad to associate retain the advantages rthat they could derive ourselves with the appropriate proposed amend- from the original agreement. ments made by the Legal Affairs Committee. The Committee on Social Affairs and Health Criticism could probably be made of the Protection can in principle support the criteria proposed Article 4, which relates to workers on which the regulation is based and the solu- transferred by their firm to a branch abroad. In tions contained in it. It however regrets the this case the legislation applying to the worker delay in submitting this proposal. It welcomes will be that of the country in which he finds the fact that the Legal Affairs Committee has himself, unless-according to the remarks by taken a number of its proposals into account, the Commission, merely in exceptional cases- particularly with regard to the important provision is made in writing that the law of the Article 4 of the Commission's proposal. land where the contract of employment was made, that is to say where the undertaking is On behalf of the Committee on Social Affairs registered, will continue to apply. and Health Protection I should in turn like to ask Parliament to approve the proposed resolu- In the first place it should be more explicitly tion and the proposed amendments. stated that the transfers concerned are those abroad for an unlimited space of time and not President. I call Dr Hillery to inform the merely for a limited period, as in the latter case - the worker concerned will be subject to Article House of the position of the Commission of the 5, which provides that the law of the place European Communities on the proposals for where the worker's original undertaking is amendments tabled by the parliamentary com- established remains applicable. mitüee.

Our Committee for Social Affairs has expressed Dr Patrick llillery, Vi,ce-President of the Corn- the wish that Article 4 should be made more missi,on of the European Commru.ni.ti.es. (E) general in intention. This Article in fact only I thank those who have contributed to- this Debates of the European Parüament

Dr. Elllery

complex subject. It has yet to be determined 5. Ad,dition of a new rule in the Rules which legal system will appl5r in labour rela- of Procedur tions law to workers in the Community. This has been seen as an obstacle to the application President. The next item on the agenda is of the principle of the free movement of wor- debate on thereport by Mr Memmel, drawn up kers. To this end the Commission has put for- for the Legal Affairs Committee, on tàe addition ward proposals regulations based for on the of a Rule a7 @) to the Rules of Procedure intro- principle that labour relations should be ducing a question time in the European Parlia- governed by the law applicable in the State ment followed by a debate if so requested and where the establishment is located, where the on an outline implementing procedure (Doc. worker is employed. 252/72). Derogations made from basic will be this I call Mr Memmel to present his report. principle of compulsory application of the labour law of the Member States in which persoru; are employed. These derogations are indicated Mr Memmel (rapporteur). (D) In presenting in Articles 4, 5 and 6. To avoid disturbance of Document 252172 the European- Parliament the social and economic orcler of the State would like to introduce a practice which has where the work is done, the law currently existed for some time in various national Par- applicable in the State must be applied to the liaments and has acquired special importance extent to which it deals with conditions of work in the House of Commons, the "Mother of Par- governed by the police and security regulations liaments". Therg Question Time has proved to set out in Article 4 (a - i) urith the possibiüty be an important parliamentary instrument that the States may extend them under the which influences public opinion, and is a means conditions indicated in Article 4 (2). of subjecting the government and the administration to ,constant supervision and criticism. The committees of the House have endorsed the report and the proposals on this conflict of the Ladies and Gentlemen, the report you have law, and have proposed some amendments, before you with the resolution has of course which, might I add, are acceptable to the Com- certain shortcomings. It certainly needs impro- mission. They unquestionably add a good vement, but I would urge you in all sincerity measure of improvement to the proposals which to make no,changes in it, as it has already taken have been put forward. us long enough to prepare the subject for the Plenary Session. The report has been a regular The Commission therefore welcomes the chapter of accidents, if I may so describe it. On constructive work which ohas been done by the 7 October 1971 repeat 1971 the Legal European Parliament in what f have described Affairs Committee- was directed -to deal with as a field which is proving extremely complex. the matter. Ttre ,committee had several sittings This regulation, once it has entered into force, and voted unanimously in favour on 14 March. v/ilI, f think put an end to the legal uncertainty The Commission then raised some diJficulties. in labour relations prevailing in the Community On 20 Malch 1972 we again discussed the and impeding the full implementation of the matter, noted and took up the Cornmission's principle of the freedom of movement of comrnents, and made an addition to the report. workers. This now enlarged report of 24 Aprit 19?2 found As I have said, the amendments are acceptable, no favour with the enlarged Bureau. Sep- and an additional amendment which uras pro- In tember 1972 that body made some nelry proposed here in relation to the time limit on the posals, which obliged the Legal Affairs Com- transfer of workers seerns to me also to be acceptable. mittee to consider the matter o,nce again. Now at last ure are at the stage where we have a Again I thank you, Mr. Fresident, and the document ready for the Plenary Session. House. (Applause) Ladies and Gentlemen, in principlg the resolution to introduce question tirne and debate, into the European Farliament is to be welcomed. If President. Does anyone - else wish to speak ? both instruments are used properly, both question time and debate, represent genuine parlia- I put the motion as a whole to the vote. mentar5r instruments of supervision and for The resolution is agreed to.1 influencing public opinion, and may serve to some extent to draw the European Parliament out of its shadow existence. Question time and l OJ No g[ of 14 February 1973. debate may arouse public interest in the sittings Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 99

of the Parliament, and perhaps serve to draw will be aroused and promoted. In some nati,onal closer the 'bonds between it and other institu- Parliaments, especially in the House of Com- tions. So much for the principle. mons, this and similar institutions already exist. '\#e in the Legal Affairs Committee have From my knowledge of the Bundestag. I may reached agreement to insert a short Rule 47 (a) say the experience has been successful. We must into the Rules of Procedure, but to incorpo,rate remember, however, that it will ,be favourable the outline implementing procedure into the only if Question Time is conducted at an appro- vade mecum, which those interested may con- priately high level and does not deviate into sult. I cannot help saying that it would be humdrum questions, questions which perhaps do foolish simply to incorporate all the guidelines trouble Members and indeed must trouble them, and outline implementing procedure into the but do not come within the responsibility of the Rules of Procedure. The proposal to absorb them Commission or the Couneil. Very precise con- into the vade mecum is better. ditions must, therefore, be laid down for questions to be accepted: questions must be clearly In conclusion, may I say that the Legal Affairs worded, relate to concrete problems, and should Committee very much welcomes the introduc- not deviate into abstract generalities; they must question tion of time in the European Parlia- be so framed as to elicit short and clear answers, ment, and at the same time expresses the which can be given without time-consuming expectation and hope that, as a result of the preliminary work, detailed study or research, proper use of this instrument by Members, and etc. Questions on the agenda for the day should of course the Bureau it will be possible to not be laised, si:lce we do not wish to bypass, redurce somewhat the large number of written favour or relegate to Time the discus- questions Question tabled by individual Members and sion of items on the agenda. ,- printed in the Bulletin. The principle is also important, Mr President, President. I call Mr. Meister, to speak for that questions must in fact be asked, rather the Christian- Democratic group. than that explanations, statements, assessments or other irrelevant matter be offered. Mr Meister. (D) Mr President, Ladies and limitations, Gentlemen, -on behalf of the Christian Demo- You will. see from these which to cratic Group I have pleasure in speakiag on this require the President of the Parliament weigh a matter admissible, that use has report on an addi,tion to the Rules of Procedure. up whether is been made in the Legal Affairs Committee of Two days ago, in his speech on assuming office, the experience of other parliaments, in onder the leader of the British delegation emphasized to establish a high level for this Question Time the need to develo,p the responsibilities of the and the greater demand for debate in the European Parliament, in other words to build European Parliament. On the other hand, should up democratic parliamentary democracy in this the answer to his question be unsatisfactory, Community. In our judgment the concept expres- the questioner should be able to ask one or two sed is greatly to be welcomed. The struggle for further questions. Any mernber of the House the widening of responsibility has already been may ask further questions and it is to be hoped very difficult in the national States, and will be that Question Time will develop into a living, no simpler in the European Community. We are effective enlargement of the Rules of Procedure, confident, however, that the United Kingdom even if now and again the President of Parlia- representatives, with their long experience, can rnent may have to use the right of limitation, make a major contribution. in order to avoid too great a flow of questions. Purely as a formality it will also be necessary Mr Memmel's report represents a step, if only to know the Rules of Procedure provisions as a small one, in this direction. The resolution in to dates for tabling questions, the order of reply, principle of the enlarged Bureau, the body as well as any written ansrdrers, time allowed which initiated the report, to introduce into for. replies, facilities for complaints, etc. Mem- this House a question time and debate, is greatly bers must therefore study this new section of the to be welcomed, and we feel that, in making Rules of Procedure, in order to make fullest use this resolution, the Bureau really had a brilliant of its potentialities. and original idea. The time for debate is always welcome in cases 'We may expect, and we think this important, where it has not been possible to answer ques- that if Question Time and all that it involves tions satisfactorily at Question Time. \ü'e must is properly conducted, not only will it provide remember that a Member may only ask ques- an effective instrument to in-fluence the public tions, and is at a disavantage vis-a-vis the but that public interest in the Parliament's task representative of the institution. He can merely 100 Debates of the European Parliament

Meister

ask, whereas the representative may choose his available here, including the rrlmportant words and enlarge on them. In our view there observation that even during r4uestion Time, is a need for a broad debate, for an exchange one hour equals sixty minutes. of opinion, for contradiction, and sometimes for a couatenplea, especially on matters of import- Mr President, f can fully support what Mr Mem- mel ance, Such requests for debate should be made and Mr Meister have said. only in the case of really topical questions of I should only like to add to this that is im- general it interest. OnIy then will it fulfil an portant that the question be read out here. important parliamentary function and become an instrument of spontaneous criticism and In other Parliarnents this may perhaps not be supervision. necessary because it is possible there to have written notice of the question that is put. In the Mr President, the enlargement of the Rules of European Parliament this in fact means that Procedure as proposed is an experiment. We the question has then to be translated into the hope it will prove its worth, revÊ[ iJ experience Community's official languages, while if the makes improvements or amendements neces- question is read out here, use can be made of sary. \Me known from long experience that not simultaneous translation. This naturally saves all that is suitable in a national Parliament can a good deal of work. -.^-timply be taken over by the Community with " its complex institutional structure. But we feel Our Group has no objection to the report and confident that the introduction of Question Time hopes that it will be accepted by unanimous will prove its worth and be a real step forward. vote, so that we shall soon be able to make use of this question time. The Christian Democratic Group supports both the motions from the Legal Affairs Committee. But even if the Members of this Parliament It would like to thank the enlarged Bureau for were to make excellent use of what is stated in its suggestions, the members of the Legal Affairs this report, it is nevertheless by no means Committee, and especially the rapporteur and certain that Question Time will be a success. the secretariat of the committee for their work This will always depend in part on those to whom ;'and cooperation. our questions are addressed. In this case f mean (Applause) representatives of the Commission and of the Council of the European Communities. President. I call Mr Broeksz speak - to for the It is very important that we should learn from Socialist Group. them, particularly from the Commission the appropriate member of which is present, what Mr Broeksz, spokesman for the Sociali,st Group. they think of this report. (N) Mr President, Ladies and Gentlemen, the day before yesterday at the ceremonial sitting Will the Commissioners to whom the questions we heard some encouraging words about the are put be present at the time when the question rights of the European Parliament and on the is put ? Or will they not be present ? many rights it lacks. This opportunity was also position rightly taken to ask if v/e are making satis- The should not be that the one Com- factory and correct use of the rights that we missioner says to the other : "You are going to have. This too is an important question. the meeting anyway, this is my answer, just read it out; and as to the supplementary ques- Mr. Memmel's report deals with the very im- tions, you will be able to get round them." If it portant matter of the right to put questions in is done like this, the plan will fail. It will fail the European Parüament. The right to question because it will nc»t then be possible to carry is one of the important means of eontrol that on the debate that may lie behind it with the the Parliament possesses. Commissioner concerned. f consider it very This report deals with how we can activate this important that when questions are put the Com- right to ,question. It gives us the opportunity to missioner concerned and we would hope, the prod in cases of bureaucracy and inattention by President of the Cou-rcil or his Deputy, will be the Commission and its services and by the present to answer the questions. Council and its services. It above all offers the I have one request, Mr President, which is to opportunity of putting questions on possible ask the President of the Commission if it can corruption and fraud in the Community as a hold its weekly meeting on the day on which whole and to exchange thoughts on present put questions. problems. we these I know that the Com- mission does not always meet on the second We thank the rapporteur for his report which day. If they ,always meet on Wednesday, we sheds a clear light on the opportunities that are could consider holding Question lime not on Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 101

Broeksz

the second but on the third day of our part- delving deeper into the material. If we are to sessions. I do not think that the rapporteur will make a success of Question Time the parti- have any objection to this. cipants, and Members themselves in the first place, will have to limit their scope when put- The main thing is that we can be sur,e that the ting questions. As far as possible they must Commission will answer the questions. present their arguments very clearly and very concretely. I do not wish to go as far as Mr The Commissioner present, Mr Scarascia Mu- Memmel, who said that there are some col- gnozza, may perhaps be prepared to promise leagues who ask too many questions. It is not now what we ask here. I have the feeling that for us to make sr.lch value judgements. The the whole of our Group would be glad to accqlt Members concerned feel the need to put a this. I agree with Mr Meister that we must wait question. Democracy gives them a right to it. and see how it works in practice. Should any They are also, of course, bound to make some- changes prove necessary an alteration in our thing of it. Rules would not be so difficult that we could llhe value judgement not introduce it after a year or two. I join with lies in the answer to the question personal the previous speaker in hoping that we shall and in the responsibility of the questioner, make a success of it ourselves and that we shatl but not in the number of questions that he puts. also be able to count on the full support of those to whom we address our questions, the Com- My Group sees Question Time as an opportunity ).mission and Council. of airing topical matters on which policy deci- U sions are soon to be taken. Detailed discussion President. I call Mr Baas to speak for the of frauds and suchlike is perhaps worth space Liberal and- Allies Group. in the newspapers. But Question Time must in fact take its rightful place in that a real contribution is being made policy decisions. Mr Baas, spokesman for the Liberal and Alltes to In Group. (iÿ) Mr President, Ladies and Gentle- Question Time we see a possibility of obtaining men, this- proposal from the Political Affairs an altogether better understanding of the problems Committee is aimed at solving a problem with with which we Erre faced. In addition, which Parliament has been struggling for many cooperation can be furthered by this means. An answer by the Commission or by the a year i.e. whether a Question Time should be Council introduced. The right to ask questions involves can have a fundamental bearing on the preparation discussions on parliamentary an obligation to make use of it. My Group also for committees sees this proposal as a further opportunity of and in Parliament at a later stage. I hope that bringing the preparatory work for policy deci- the Commission and the Council are aware of sions in the CommunitSr more into the public this. eye. The preparatory work for policy decisions A reply by a Commissioner other than the one in the Council and Commission and the prepara- responsible seems to me of little purpose. As tion of our work in our committee meetiags soon as Parliament knows that the Commis- take place behind closed doors. As you know, sioner is reading the reply, it would find it Mr President, this problem has already been put particularly easy to embarrass him by means on the agenda on several occasions. How can of supplementar;r questions. I therefore hope Parliament publicise its work more ? There is that the Commission will prepare itself. From an oppontunity to do so in Question Time. Much the reply to a supplementary question we shall of our work and discussion concerns executive know whether the Commissioner knows exactly arrangements, all that has to be brought about what he has told us or whether he has to make a market regulation effective. The merely read out a piece of prose that has many reports that are on the agenda today been prepared for him. I urgently appeal to the nearly all relate to Commission regulations that Commission and the Council that they be aware have been submitted to Parliament for comment. of this. It is stated quite'clearly in the proposal that two supplementary questions may be put. The problems which Community is with the The supplementarSr questions offer an oppor- faced are seldom topical. So must use we not tunity of testing the Commission or the Council. Question Time to conduct polemics or to continue fruitless discussion which has been making heavy These sixty minutes must be spent usefully, for weather in the parliamentary committee. f agree example, on topical problems where policy with Mr Broeksz that for a discussion to be decisions are being prqlared and are being truly topical the Commission and the Council given attention in the press. It is not a matter would have to be present here. We can read of which Member happens to be speaking. It is the stereotytrle arlswers by the Council, but they a matter of problems being presented in such are not sufficiently interesting to attempt a rflay that we can continue to work on them. L02 Debates of the European Parüament

Baas

My Group therefore sees an opportunity of randum referred to by Mr Kirk in the gaining information, but I should like to stress ceremonial session. two other important aspects. Parliament is is nearly 28 years since made my debut, prepared to work quickly and take decisions. It I my maiden speech, in the House of Commons; But I must comment that experience shows that but even that period is only a very short span there are some in Parliament who attempt to in Britain's long parliamentary history, perhaps postpone 'decisions. Arguments can of course 5 per cent of the whole. always be found to support this, translation amongst others. W'e have not, for example, dealt I shoutrd like to thank Mr Meister and Mr with the problems of ethylalcohol. We are Memmel for their gracious and courteous familiar with the existing controversy on the references to British parliamentary experience matter. It is therefore not just the Council that and to say that we in our turn would hope to attempts to avoid decisions on particular prob- profit from the experience of question time as lems. I think that the Council still has 200 or operated in the Bundestag. 300 proposals in its in-tray, from which at the eleventh hour it can make a selection according At Westmiaster we are still learning after many to the lie of things. But this is a phenomenon centuries. It is not surprising, therefore, that that I can also detect from time to time in Par- this European Parliament should still be in the liament. formative stages of its procedures. For myself, I have some little experience of parliamentary Mr President, in a democracy we have to take questions at both ends, so to speak. For over decisions in such a way that a majority decides. 20 years I have been asking them ; for five years, lhis decision must then be respected and we as a Minister, I sought to answer them ; and must join together in seeing that it is carried both activities v/ere certainly enjoyable. I can through. If Question Time can contribute to only hope that they v/ere useful, too. getting statements of principle from the Council and the Commission at an ,early stage, then I There is no doubt that the inauguration of a regular question time and the opportunities for feel that we can make a success of this Question Time. For the rest I hope, Mr President, that debates on matters of topical interest will mark an important advance in the working methods you will see to it that Question Time takes its rightful place in the sense that we shall be of the European Parliament. put questions able to a large number of and that I have a few critical comments to make but I we shall also receive a large number of answers have harkened to the exhortation of Mr. Mem- end becoming bogged and that we shall not up mel; and in deference to his very natural desire down in controversy with each other, which to see some fruits, albeit tardy, of his long part would deprive this of our activities of their labours, I have not found it necessary to immediacy. formalise them in the way of amendments. They must be viewed against the background of a President, prepared Mr the Liberal Group is warm and general approval of the report as a to cooperate in this experiment, but I do urge whole and of my respectful congratulations to the other Members of Parliament to do what the rapporteur and to the committee of which they can so that vre may receive a mâximum as from now I am proud to be a member. of information in those sixty minutes, so that v.le can take this into account when preparing The first of my specific points is this. In adding resolutions and taking other policy decisions. the proposed RuIe 47 (a) the motion specifically states. Rule 46 shall not be affected by this provision. President. I call Sir Derek Walker-Smith to In one respect I think that is a pity because speak for the- Conservative Group. RuIe 46-albeit that it is a rule dealing \ dth oral questions without debate-makes provision for a supporting ten-minute speech. Sir Derek \üalker-Smith. (E) It is with a sense Speeches in question time are, with respect, out of privilege that I rise to -make my debut in this of place. They may properly and usefully follow Parliament in the debate on this important and in a topical debate such as is contemplated by stimulating report presented with such the new Rule 47 (a), but they should not be grace and distinction by Mr Memmel. It is a injected into the actual question time. They report dealing with matters which lie very inevitably blur the sharp edges and blunt the close to the heart of our parliamentary proced- foils of what should be a quick and lively ures. I speak here for the Conservative Group, exchange of question and ëulswer. If this whose keen and constructive interest in pro- provision in Rule 46 is allowed to co-exist with cedural progress and improvement is already the new Rule 47 (a) it will make it more difficult evidenced by the presentation of the memo- to achieve the brevity and pertinence very Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 19?3 103

Sir Derek lValker-§mith properly sought by the guidelines. I think there- question: \Mhen are studies to be judged as fore, and the Conservative Group thinks, that lengthy, by what criteria and in whose it should not be long before the Legal Affairs judgment? Committee takes a critical look at RuIe 46 and cornments I wish to make, Rule 47 also, and, indeed, at the whole corpus Those are the specific conclusion, to make a general of our procedural code. but I want, in observation. It is a great and important thing for I wish to make some brief reference to the any parliament to introduce a procedure for the guidelines. The first is : 'Questions shall be brief effective and regular interrogation of the and allow of a brief ansrrer'. In the Shakespear- executive. It is a great thing, but it is not ian idiom, a consummation devoutly to be everything. We must not exaggerate the effect wished. But, of course, brevity involves a sub- or importance of these innovations which we jective value judgment, and after operating a discuss here today. It is not the whole answer regular question time for a period Members will to the question of parliamentary control, even,in be struck by a curious fact: it is always the the House of Commons, where v/e have over questions of other members that seem to be 30,000 questions a year, and here only 60 minutes prolix and prosy, whereas their own questions every month or so. However, it is wise not to will always be pithy and pertinent. Harüy will exaggerate the importance of these innovations' they have registered that impression than they It is right to remember that the value of will be subjected to another powerful and question time is not restricted to particular paradoxical impression, that however clear, answers to specific questions. It is a case where relevant and valuable questions mây be, the the whole is much more than the sum of the ansrffers tend to be discursive, evasive and individual parts. unsatisfactory. However, even in forming these question that views, Members will be wise to pause and reflect The real value of a regular time is that that, viewed from the standpoint of the Com- it imposes on the executive the knowledge mission and the Council, things look a bit dif- all their actions are subject to parliamentary ferent. In their view it is the answers that are scrutiny and interrogation and will be examined models of administrative propriety and discre- closely and conscientiously in the interests of tion, whereas the questions, alas, all too often those millions whom we here seek to represent. are misconceived, unneces.sary, prejudicial and That knowledge has a tonic effect on executive sometimes plain mischievous. boües. It is a spur where speed is needed and a brake where administrative considerations are There are further guidelines, most of them in danger of out-running popular will. impeccable if sometimes containing glimpses of the obvious. There is, however, one of main The attitude of Parüament to the executive importance, and one or two require a short should be one of criticism and inquiry, tempered comment. by the realisation that action, administration and the effective practice of government is The one of fundamental importance is that inherenUy and inescapably more difficult than which says that, to be in order, questions shall the task of comment and criticism without the fall within the competence and sphere of function of government, which is all that rests responsibility of the Commission and the Coun- with us here in this Chamber. The relationship cil. When once you have set that very necessary should therefore be one of continual confronta- limitation on the scope of questions, you have tion stopping short of conflict. ïlre should always general done most of what is necessary to safeguard bear in mind the words of the to his question time. For the rest it is a matter for the staff officers: 'Always remember, Gentlemen, discretion and skill of the chair. that, in spite of occasional evidence to the contrary, we are all on the same side really.' The next guideline says that questions shall not require lengthy stuües or inquiries by the AII of what we seek to do here is part and institutions concerned. I must, with respect, parcel of an important task, a task which must warn members of the dangers of this guideline. command the attention not only of this Parüa- It is a dangerous limitation even if well- ment but of all the national Parliaments as intentioned. It would provide an easy and sign- well. It is only by the cumulative efforts of posted escape route for any commissioner or all parliaments that the ideal expressed in the member of the Council who might seek to evade eæposé d,es motifs of bringing the executive forbid the impious thought-an under parliamentary control can be achieved' -Heaveninconvenient question. It is, of course, precisely That is an ideal of abiding importance but of those questions which are inconvenient to the particular signüicance at this present time when exeeutive which it is the duty of Parliament to new countries have joined the Community. prosecute and press. There is the further There are many of these countries with grave 104 Debates of the European Parliament

Slr Derek lValker-Smiüh

and sincere misgivings, especially in regard to ment, we imagine that they were not altogether what they think may be the bureaucratic and unmindful of the fact that our British colleagues supranational rigidities of the executive institu- were to join us on the benches. It is a kind of tions of the Community, and for myself I share welcoming present: so that our colleagues should these misgivings. On the question of British not feel out of their element, this debate has entry to the Community, if I may quote the been placed on today's agenda. Churchillian phrase in a different context : ,I find no difficulty in confining my enthusiasm \Me heard with great interest the address by within the bounds of decorum. Mr Peter Kirk and we have already studied his memorandum. We think that it is in accord If therefore these doubts are to be stilled and with the underlying principles of a concept which these anxieties are to be allayed, if the peoples the European Democratic Union has very much at of our countries are to accept the workings of heart: \rtre can, in present circumstances, obtain the Community in their hearts and in their a great deal from this Parliament. The European minds, these workings must be conducted in a Parliament has powers which it can use and spirit of parliamentary democracy and accord- which are available to it, in particular the ing to its forms and be seen to be so. That is essential pov/er of su5lervision of the Commis- the vital objective. Therefore, though the motion sion's administration. is a valuable step, it is the first step only; but ft seems to us I hope that, in this as other that hitherto that aspect has not in matters, it will been taken turn out to be a case up sufficiently and we very much of il n'y a que le premier look pas qui cofite'. to our B,ritish, Irish and Danish colleagues to assist us to increase (Applause) the supervisory powers of this Parliament.

President. I call Mr Triboulet to speak for Moreover, if you will forgive me for returning the European- Democratic Union Group. to the topic, this aspect was paramount in the Norman Exchequer ,and I know it exists in the British Parliament. We already have powers Mr Triboulet. (F) Mr President, Ladies and the Gentlemen, the- European Democratic to supervise the Commission's administration. Union Solely as a matter of form Group can only be .delighted to see our Euro- I would recall that pean Parliament adopt stillborn motion of censure a few weeks ago, British time. I would which add, because I have been parliamentary in order to be valid within the terms of a our Rules clearly representative for a long time, almost had to relate to the Com- as many mission's administration. years as my colleague Sir Derek Walker-Smith, myself representing Normandy in the French How is it possible that our national parliaments Parliament, that we could equally well call that are not disturbed that we allow a European time "Norman time". fact, In without wishing budget now drawn from own resources to reach to take issue with Mr Memm,el, who mentioned nearly 4,500 units of account without any real the House of Commons ,,Mother paras the of parliamentary control being exercised? liaments", we think that the Norman ,,Exche- quer" played a vital role in the history of Hence a vital function has to be performed ,,question in parliaments. Does this mean that this connection, and the questions put to the time" existed in the era of William the Con- Com,mission and to the Council in the special queror and his successors ? I would not swear period which vre are to introduôe should relate to it ! All the same, that Exchequer, which was to that administrative work. For the same the precursor both of parliaments and counting reason, our Group has always drawn the atten- houses, indubitably made a valuable contribution of this Parliament to the fact that one of tion to the form of parliaments throughout the its essential tasks is to debate the Annual age§. General Report, as provided in Article 148 of the Treaty. presentation fact, British The of that report gives In influence, or rather, so that Parliament the opportunity to require everyone can the Com- be in agreement, Anglo-Norman mission to render account. influence, on our national Parliaments has parliament already been apparent. The French Just now a Member known to everyone in this has recently added an "urgent questions" pro- House and greatly esteemed by all of us was cedure to the procedure of ',oral questions', with criti,cised for putting down a great many written or without debate. Moreover" when the Bureau questions. Permit me to say that I admire a high of the European Parliament and the Legal proportion of his written questions, and Affairs that Committee took up this suggestion of such questions constitute one of the mearns introducing, by means of a H,ule 47 (a), a tirne whereby a member of the European parliament reserved for questions in our European parlia- is entitled to control the administration by the Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 105

Triboulet

Commission. He puts questions on specific companies are mapping out the lives of our aspects of the work of the Commission, which, peoples. unfortunately, we do too rarely in this House. This means that we-not only we Communists the European Democratic Union In that spirit those wish to defend democracy- \relcomes great pleasure this opportunity but ail who with must continually reinforce the full powers of of putting questions at sittings on specific points democratic institutions to combat such operations of the Commission or of the the of the attemps to restrict the powers of Parliament, Council, especially in this seat, in this Parliament which, May I take this opportunity to add that if we as v/e all like to remind ourselves frequently institute these short, specific and effective (but do not always act accordingly), was created debates, we should at the same time free our and stilI exists with scanty porÀ/ers. Indeed, it agenda of a number of specialized debates on has been said that this Parliament is only of topics on which the committees have reached etymological origin: it is a place in which there some kind of unanimity. At your suggestion, is a great deal of talking but very little decision- Mr President, we have initiated a system of a making power. certain number of votes without debate. Perhaps These considerations should stimulate us all, we should also apply that procedure in the case honourable members, Mr President, chairman specialized rnatters whose discussion at a of of the recognised groups, to deploy the few public sitting is of no real interest. powers allotted this Parliament with great force To sum up, iT we can give our European Par- and tenacity. And f express our agreement in liament both greater vitality and greater effect- principle with the proposals submitted to us by iveness, that is assuredly the best contribution the Legal Affairs Committee. While I realise that which we members of Parliament could make they amount to very little, while I concede the towards our common aim of creating a united validity of certain criticisms raised by Members Europe. from other parties these proposals nonetheless (Applause) are a srnall step forwand and we cannot oppose e them. President. I call Mr Cipolla. - I take this opportunity to remind the House that the parliamentary right to question the execut- Mr Cipolla. - (I) This discussion, Mr President, ive bodies is one that should be defended, by has reminded me of the beginnings of my par- whichever political sector it is exercised, and liamentary career in Sicily in a noble old build- the aspect most worthy of deferrce is its time- ing that the Sicilians remember with pride as liness. I would like to remind you of the respect- being the seat of one of the first and oldest par- ful protest that I addressed to the Chair in this liaments in Europe, the parliament established House at yesterday's sitting regarding the con- by the Normans and Swabians in our island. tinued postponement of discussion on my And this memory is a good omen for the meeüiag Group's question,as to the problem of industrial that, after almost a thousand years of conflict sugar monopolies' disruption of Community and suffering, is being held in this seat today regulations on free competition. We raised this among European peoples under the banner, I question in November last year in good time for trust, of peace and progress. consideration during the part-session in Decem- placed Having made these observations and having ber; it vr'as then on the agenda for the January part-session and has now been defer- congratulated all my colleagues who have made it red until February. This fact demonstrates that their contribution and who have raised the parliamentarian- problem of parliamentary control over the the right of the individual and therefore of Parliament itself-is being sup- executive, I cannot forget that the year is 1973, pressed. Yesterday the President said-and it nor can I ignore the fact that powerful economic recorded the minutes-that normal forces are at this time increasingly tending to is in it is practice requested by a committee the Iimit the por,ver of parliaments, that all over that when chair automatically orders its referral. But then, the world they are increasingly tending to curb this is the norm, must say that debases the effectiveness of the form of peoples's control if f it the underlying the parliamentarian's exerted through the parli,amentary institutions. spirit right to exercise his power of questioning. I would I am well a\Mare that such forces are permeatiag remiad you that we did not view the Bureau deep into these institutions and are attempting in ideological terms but rather on a functional to reduce them to the symbolic and the formal, terrain and we gave it our support at the time while the true seats of decision-making power of its constitution; but the Bureau must defend are far from indiscreet eyes and ears, in places Members' rights vis-à-vis the executive, whether where the technocrats and the boards of large this takes the form of the Council of Ministers Debates of the European Parliament

CtpoIIa or whether it is the Commission. To defend the But may I put the following question: Can rights of Members means to ensure that replies either the rapporteur or the Chairman of the are given to them promptly. I wou-ld remind Legal Affairs Committee or the President of the you that I raised the point when the Commission European Parliament give an assurance that the had not taken a decision, and it had not decided Council will not be able merely to agree formally because pressure had been exerted upon it to to this procedure but will also be prepared in prevent it from deciding and to persuade it to practice to accept this nerÀr opportunity to refer everything to the new Commission. I did proceed via the mechanism of question and not obtain a reply then, I am not obtaining one supplementar5r question in fact to a co,nsultation, now and it may be that when I do obtain a reply a dialogue between Parliament and Council. the Court of Justice at the Hague will have That is my v/orry, Mr President. already reached a decision. In this way, the provision of Rule 47 of our Rules of Procedure President. I call Mr Lefèbvre. will have been circumvented. Yesterday we - placated were by the assurance that the chair Mr Lefèbvre. (.E) Mr President, as this debate had not been subjected to pressure. We found draws to its conclusion,- f should like to submit out, however, that pressure for deferment had to the Bureau of this House and to the rap- come from the Commission; this is what the porteur, Mr Memmel, some observations made President said. VIe know what has dictated the in the light of my experienc+which, I regret Commission's attitude, what pressures, which to say, is somewhat longer than that of the governments or which industrial iaterests. For distinguished speakers who have preceded me- this reason, Mr President, I believe that even in the parliament of my country, which has though this regulation increases the House's enabled me to form an opinion on the way in powers to question little and in a very contra- which the system of oral questions works. dictory manner, its approval is without doubt a positive factor; all of us, whatever our party, I think that we shall be agreed that the system must be in favour of such ,an extension of of oral questions cannot be allowed to interfere Parliament's povrers. It is a right which we must with the normal working of the House. The time be very firm in establishing, for its infringe- which \rye are to devote to oral questions should ment may affect one political party today, be so organized by the Bureau that the greatest another tomorrow, or a parliamentary commit- possible number of questions can be put in that tee. The spheres of competence of the institu- space of time. tions must be respected. In the Belgian Chamber of Representatives one Here Europe is playing a very important part hour every I'hursday is reservd for oral in defending this institution. On these grounds, questions and not less than six questions can Mr President, I conclude with the hope that the be put during that hour. novelty of the situation and a more tenacious It is clearly understood, and I think this is the defence of Parliament's rights will enable our general consensus of opinion, that when oral institutions to function more effectively. questions are put the purpose is not to deal with fundamental matters; rather, the purpose, President. I call Mr Dewulf. as Mr Triboulet very pertinently emphasized - just now, is to question the Commission, or iT appropriate the Council of Ministers, on the Mr Dewulf. goes (iV) Mr President, it application of the Treaties. without saying- that I cannot but welcome this initiative and I hope that in applying it we The point which I should like to take up at the shall wish to take account of the particularly moment is that there seems to be a suggestion pertinent remarks that have just been expressed that if a question has been put a:rd the reply by the spokesman of the Conservative Group. given by the spokesman for the Commission or I am convinced th,at we can depend on full co- for the Council of Ministers is not to the operation from the Commission. satisfaction of the questioner, then the questioner is to be allowed to put supplementary questions, Political dialogue with the Council seems to that is, to initiate a debate. me essential in this improvement in parliamentary procedure. \Me all feel that a certain Mr President, I believe that would be an shift should take place from. the dialogue be- extremely dangerous procedure. I much prefer tween Parliament and the Commission to a more the system currently in operation in Belgium. intensive dialogue between Parliament and The questioner puts his question and the Council. The Council is not present here. Nor Minister responsible replies to it. Then the am I a member of the Legal Affairs Committee. matter is declared closed without any other Sitting of Thursday, l8 January 19?3 107

Lefèbwe speaker being allowed to intervene. It should the statements made by Mr Cipolla on the Oral be realized that eight times out of ten the person Question from him and other Members. question who has put a will not be satisfied I have here draft agenda No. 47172. According with the rqly obtained, because in his opinion to this, the question was to have been called some detail or other will be omitted. His today, 18 January. The Commission asked that inclination will be to make a debate of the it be dealt with in conjunction with the report matter and to continue the discussion, the result by Mr Berkhouwer, i.e. on Tuesday. of which will be disruption of the parliamentary agenda. The Bureau would have liked to comply with the Commission's request but was confronted What courses should be open to a questioner with the following situation: the new Members who has been given a reply which he does not from the three acceding States requested that find satisfactory? this statement by the Commission on the social situation in the Community be followed, for the our national Parliaments if a speaker is not fn first time, by a debate. After some deliberation, satisfied with a reply to an oral question he this request was acceded to and, contrary to formal challenge. That is may turn it into a precedent, we had this statement followed by applicable our case. But it is highly not in debate which began on Ttesday and even prejudicial functioning of our Parliament a to the continued yesterday morning. to adopt a system which would lead to the whole of W'ednesday afternoon being given over In view of this, the Bureau decided to with- to question and answer. It could be decided that draw the report by Mr Berkhouwer from the the debate is to be closed when the reply has agenda and carry it forward to the February been given by the Commissioner, but with the part-session. reservation that the questioner would then have The Commission did not, therefore, manoeuver two possibilities: that of putting down a written so that the report by Mr Berkhouwer and your question or that of asking for arrangements to report were not called today. This was purely be made for an emergency debate. But I make and simply a decision by the Bureau announced a distinction, Mr President, between a system in plenary session when the agenda was being which would allow a debate to develop adopted and it was approved by the House. automatically and the system which f recom- pro- mend, whereby a questioner would be permit- This is what I had to say for the sake of ted, he were not satisfied with the reply priety following the statements made by Mr if the from the representative of the Commission, to Cipolla and for the information of Commis- apply for an emergency debate. The question sion. of whether or not to hold an emergency debate I call Mr Scarascia Mugnozza. should, at the request of the President, be decided by the Assembly without debate. Mr Scarascia Muguozza, Vtce Presid,ent oI the Conmission of the European Comrnuniti,es. permission, President, shall With your Mr I (I) Before entering into the merits of Mr Mem-- any other conclude by saying that if we adopt mel's report. I wish to thank President Behrendt system ure run the risk of becoming involved for his explanation of the point raised by Mr far from expedit- in intermiaable debates which, Cipolla. I wish to confirm that the Commission ing the work of this Parliament, will slow has never asked for a postponement but that, matters down even more. to save work, Mr Cipolla's question could be To summarize my proposal: let an oral question combined with Mr Berkhouwer's report. I should be put by a Member and let the Commissioner also like to clarify matters a little further for reply to it. If the,questioner is not satisfied with Mr CipoIIa, for I believe that this system of the reply he either tables a written question or throwing out accusations that pressure is being asks for an emergency debate. In the latter case, exerted must be cleared up once and for all. let the President put the matter of an emergency I do not know whether there has been pressure, debate to the vote-but, of course, there should but all this has not prevented the Commission be no debate as to whether it should be held. from reachiag â decision at the opportune mo- But for the time being let us not engage in long ment. I repeat, I do not know whether pressure discussions of procedure which will only delay has been exerted, but speaking for myself and as progress in our work. the person responsible for Community agricultural policy, as I have already stated to the press I must decfare that no pressure has been Fresident. - The list of speakers is closed. exerted upon me either by the politicians or by professional associations. I say this to assert the Before calling Mr Scarascia Mugnozza, there is trüth and so that it will appear in the Parlia- one point I should like to deal with further to mentary records. 108 Debates of the European Parliament

Mugnozza

As I said at the beginning, I should like to thank I have no corunents on the proposed text, Mr Memmel and the Legal Affains Committee especially as this is a matter for the European for the important piece of work which has been Parliament alone. If the Commission has in fact presented, and to say at once to Mr Triboulet made observations, it has done so with the aim that the Commission is very happy that there of improving our work. should be scutiny of its administration. This May I, Mr President, express desire the is one of the reasons why, in organising the a of Commission: on Mondays and Tuesdays we Commission departments, we agree that size the often have attend of the staff working on parliamentary questions to Council meetings and on those days it is difficult for us to keep abreast should be increased so that replies to both oral of the work of the European Parliament. If and written question may be as prompt, de- 'Wednesday could be established as the day for tailed and comprehensive as possible. This pro- discussion of oral questions, of gress is apparently slight but is undoubtedly of this might be benefit to the work of the European Parliament. great importance, and the Commission will not It is not the Commission's problem, as the Com- try to evade its responsibilities. I am happy that mission has always declared itself to be avail- Sir Derek Walker-Smith agrees that the execu- able, normally tive should be afforded this possibility. but the Council meets on Mondays and Tuesdays. The Commission, for its part, intends to deal President. I call Mr Cipolla. with any questions put to it in a straightforward - and committed fashion, for we believe that only in this way can v/e move forward towards Mr Cipolla. (I) Mr President, I said yesterday building Europe. and today I -repeated that I am quite convinced that the Bureau has not acted as if it had been I would like to reply to two more points. It has subject to pressure; my complaint to the Chair been suggested that the Commissioners should was not based upon these but upon other all be present so that they can speak. I must considerations, and I should like to explain them remind the House that the Commission is a col- further. legiate body and that in consequence it is The first is the following: Rute 47 states responsible for its replies on a collegiate basis, that questioners shall be informed promptly but I must add that a Commissioner who is in of all the particulars of the agenda for the sitting in day-to-day touch with a specific sector is in a which a reply is to be given, as far better position to give convincing replies well as of any changes. But this information made than a Commissioner who lacks daily experience was not available to us. of that sector. 'With regard to my other comment, I wish to As part of the increasingly close cooperation state that this referred to a reply given me with Parliament for which the Commission yesterday from the Chair-as recorded in the hopes, the fact that the President is pri,rnus inter minutes-in the words I mentioned earlier, pores and that he is person the main responsible specifying that a postponement requested by the for political contacts, and that it was thought Commission is automatically agreed. If this is fit for him to be assisted by a Commissioner to the interpretation I take the liberty of dis- make these contacts even closer, does not imply agreeing, for in my political opinion the Bureau should that representation should be given exercise a form of pressure upon the Commission solely to the President Vice-President or in if the Commission proves reluctant to give an office. It is clear that, especially now that the answer. I say g "il the Commission proves Commission has been enlarged from to 18, we reluctant", for this is not always wish the case. I Commissioners to be able to attend a1l the have stated my opposition to this declaration meetings person, present in to be at the sittings of principle and f now reaffirm that opposition. of the House and to reply in person to all the problems raised. Obüously a Commissioner may There is, then, a third point explained by you be absent from time to time, but in that case this morning: it concerns the Commission's another Commissioner will take over with equal application to deal with our question in conjunc- authority. This will be the exception, however, tion with a report and the desire of our British not the rule. colleagues to postpone discussion of this report until the February part-session. It might almost We can, then, assure you that we shall do our be found amusing that the first contribution utmost to see that this new procedure is adopted made by our British colleagues, who have such by the Commission, to see that the debate is great respect for Parliamentary rights according brief but also very clear, providing proof of the to the declaration they made yesterday on thè continued link between the Commission and the first occasion they spoke, should have served to European Parliament. render one of Parliarnent's acts of control less Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 109

Cipolla effective. Perhaps the request put forward by ward to the February part-session were dictated our British colleagues might have been accepted by a lack of time. rather than that of the Commission, for if the question had been discussed during this part- Our British colleagues did not ask for this postponement, session it would not have lost its timeliness and the decision was taken by the no harm would have been done if it had not Bureau in view of the situation. been discussed together with the report on I caII Mr Memmel. competition. My concern, Mr President, arises from the fact that, by discussing this question Mr Memnoel. (D) Allow me, Mr President, during the forthcoming part-session, be it will to say a word- of criticism. examined after irrevocable actions have already been committed by the Community institutions, \Me are at present dealing with the agenda item: which are neither the Commission nor the Par- Introduction of a question time and general liament. This is the point, Mr President. debate on the Rules of Procedure, that is Article a7 @). I therefore cannot understand why now a Nevertheless, the. House has decided and we debate on sugar monopoly, the Berkhouwer must defer to that decision, although we would report and other matters which were due for state our own position in what we believe to discussion the day before yesterday, is begin- be a respectful manner. ning. I object to a Member of the House using an interjection to guide the debate in a diJferent I still owe the Commissioner a reply. The Italian direction. Constitution lays down minimum ages for the right to stand for election: 25 for the Chamber President. Permit me to interrupt you Mr of Deputies and 40 for the Senate of the - Republic. In other words, a degree of maturity Memmel. and awareness is required. As President it is my duty to direct debates. It was for reason I am not in a position to prove whether or not this that I allowed this interven- you have been subjected to pressure, but the tion because I thought it essential for the purposes of the situation. history of ltaly-this is by norû/ a matter of clarifying historical and cultural record-shows that sugar f am sure your remark was not intended as monopolies, both before the advent of Fascism criticism of the Chair. (and this subject is fully documented), during the period of Fascism (of which they were sup- You have the floor Mr Memmel. porters) and in the course of recent events (the sugar producers' trade journals supported both Mr Mernmel. (D) No, no criticism of the the Social Movement and the right wing opera- Chair, but of- the colleague who caused this tion) have had great influence upon political whole discussion and was again called upon to decisions in our country, and also on decisions speak. on and the creation and drafting of the Com- munity sugar regulations, as I can prove when I now come to RuIe 47 (a), and would first say this question is finally discussed. to Mr Dewulf that no difference exists in the relationship of Parliament to the Council and For this reason, Mr Commissioner, although to the Commission. \ile can constrain the Com- your personal good faith may well be beyond mission to come here, we can even send it away, dispute, political pressure exerted by the sugar if we so wish and agree. rffith the Council we monopolies has, alas, become part of the troubled are powerless. \[e are dependent on its grace, history of our country, and these forces have favour and benevolence. For that reason in Rule alway,s acted against the interests of the ltalian 47 (a) we deliberately refrained from including people and of freedom. the Council. It is true that the Council has now agreed to attend. Question Time, but not the debate, if so requested. President. Before calling Mr Memmel I must correct at -least one of the statements made by A word to our colleague Mr Lefèbvre. I am sorry Mr Cipolla. to have to contradict you with your experience in Parliament. Our only purpose in granting the It is not our British colleagues in the Bureau questioner and other members of the House the who requested that the report by Mr Berk- right to ask a supplementary is to make par- houwer and Oral Question No 25172 be liament more up to date. It is the task of the withdrawn from the agenda. The decision of the President-and I place great confidence in Bureau to deal with Oral Question No 25172 in the President-not to allow the whole proceed- conjunction with the report by Mr Berkhouwer ings to degenerate into a limitless debate, as our and the decision to carry these two items for- colleague Lefèbvre suggested. At Question Time 110 Debates of the European Parliament

MemmeI

there are only questions and answers, no debate. It will be for the President to make Question It is quite different after Question Time. If Time into what we want, namely a genuine anyone is not satisfied with an answer from the exercise of control by Parliament over the Com- Commission, because it appears to him too short mission and a way of drawing Parliament's or wrong, he can raise a further question, or ,existence to the attention of the general public persuade colleagues to do so. We consciously pore firmly. chose the number five, rather than ten, as '(Applause) originally proposed. The reason for reducing the number to five Members ïÿas to accommodate President. I call Mr Broeksz. Members of no Political Group, for whom ten - would have been too high. The questioner may induce five people to request a short debate Mr Broeksz. (N) Mr President, I wish to immediately after Question Time, in which concur with the- last remark made by Mr Mem- every speaker may take five minutes. mel, because I fear that nevertheless we are getting into difficulties. We have, in fact, in the I must make a further correction. On pages 5 Legal Affairs Committee opted for the second and 8 of the report you will notice a certain day. I have, Mr President, received a nice pocket variation. This is due to technicalities, transla- diary from you, for which I am most grateful. tion and printing. Rule 47 (a) 2, must read as it But this clearly indicates that in a large number appears in the correction before you. I hope it of months the second day of the plenary sessions has now been translated into all languages, so falls on a Tuesday, which is the day on which that I may refer to it: Before the close of the Commission meets with the Council, as Mr Question Time any poütical group or at least five Scarascia Mugnozza has informed us. Nor can Representatives may request that a debate be we always hold Question Time on the third day held immediately thereafter on the Commission's of the session, as there are three months in the anslver to a clearly defined question of general year in which we meet on only two days. If topical iaterest during which brief oral meetings are held on only two days, it would questions, suggestions or comments may be be difficult to fix Question lime for the third addressed to the Commission of the European day. Hence I wonder whether it would not be Communities. wise if we were to establish at once that Question Time will take place on W'ednesday, A final word on the proposal made by Mr Sca- or othervrise on the second day of the session rascia Mugnozza. ln the report we specified no if meetings are to be held only on two days. definite day of the week, but said 'at the If we always take the second day of the part- beginning of every second sitting day of the session and if this second day falls seven times sitting', because the sittiags of the European on a Tuesday-a day on which the Commission Parliament do not always begin on a Monday. is not present-then vre are already laying down This week, for example, it began on T\resday. So the seeds of failure of Question fime in the we wanted to lay down it should be the second motion for a resolution. sitting day. OnIy when the Commission is present can We wanted a definite time for our question time. Question Time become a success. Hence I have In this way we can ensure that the press adjusts asked you, Mr President, to consult with the to this and is present. What we shall also achieve President of the Commission on the possibility is to arouse Parliament out of its Sleeping of holding Question Time on Wednesdays, the Beauty existence. day on which the Commission of the European Communities meets. In addition, the Commis- Mr ScarasciaMugnozza. it is immaterial whether sion could then meet in the town where we we take Tuesday or W'ednesday. AII I would like are holding our part-session. We have nôt yet is that we should not specify a day of the week a perrnanent seat and we meet in Luxemburg or but opt for every second sitting day or, if you in Strasbourg. prefer every third sitting day. \ü'e take the second sitting day because Parliament does not In my opinion the Commission should meet always begin on a Monday. during our part-session in the town where Parliament is meeting. I feel that this is also I should also like to appeal to you: let,s make a the view held by Mr Memmel. start. It is tru+-as I said at the beginning- the draft has its faults. Perhaps every school Fresident. Ladies and Gentlemen f should has a much better solution in its national Par- like to make- a suggestion. liament. But we want to try to make a start 'We and arouse interest. can make changes as I think Mr Memmel, you too will agree, as time goes by. regards the timing of questions, that the Com- Sitting of thursday, 18 January 1973 111

Presfulent mission must be able to attend and be represent- RuIe 47 shall not be affected by this provision. ed as far as possible by the Commissioner procedure responsible for each matter arising. The detailed for the conduct of such debates shall be governed by guidelines. If Mr Scarascia Mugnozza accepts this and asks put that Wednesdays should always be the day I the two motions to the vote. chosen, we should accede to his request because The two resolutions are agreed to.l we wish Commissioners to attend. simple anstù/er would to I think that the be 6. Order of busi'ness state in paragraph I of Rule 47 (a):'At the commencement of the second or third sitting day during a part-session...' President. I call Mr Briot for a procedural motion. - This would resolve the difficulty. Mr Briot. (F) Mr President, Colleagues, I If the part-session began on a Tuesday, \Me - would take the second sitting day and if it began have been informed that the House has agreed on a Monday we should take the third sitting to delete my report on alcohol from the agenda day. In this way question time would always be for today. I am surprised and do not understand on a Wednesday and we would be reconciling the reasons for this, because for the Iast few the wishes of the Commission and our own. days I have been reminded constantly that we are pressd for time. I call Mr Dewulf. On checking the date on which the Commission Mr Dewulf. (tr') Mr President I agree with in Brussels had the copies of the document your proposal- but I should like to stress that the distributed I find that a letter dated 15 March argument put forward by Mr Scarascia Mugnoz- 1972 shows the decision of the President of za also applies, a fortiori to the Council at the the Council of the European Communities, in same time. accordance with the provisions of Articles 43 and 235 of the Treaty, to consult the European President. Mr Dewulf, we have received Parliament on the proposal from the Commis- assurances -from both institutions. If the situa- sion of the European Communities to the Council relating tion changes we shall naturally have to ask the to a Community system for the market Council, for ethyl alcohol of agricultural origin and supplementary regulations for ethyl alcohol of The Commission has agreed. I think we shall non-agricultural origin and for certain products also come to an agreement with the Council. containing alcohol. Does any one else wish to speak? I do not therefore understand why a debate 'We which was considered urgent a few days ago come now to the vote on the two motions suddenly ceases to be urgent, after I have but first, I am going to read Rule 47 (a) as it several times had to submit the ,document to now stands as a result of our discussion: the Committee on Agriculture, after it has at one time been considered to be too long, and 'RuIe 47 (a) after I have been asked to produce an interim 1. A question time shall be set aside at the report quickly so that final decision could be commencement of the second or third sitting taken last week so that the report could be day during the part-session, when any Repre- debated today. And then, suddenly some one sentative may put a brief oral question to the stands up in this Parliament to declare: 'Gen- Commission or Council. tlemen, we have not been able to study the draft, we have not had enough time.' Rule 46 shall not be affected by this provision. In the circumstances I am justified in mention- The detailed procedure for the conduct of ing, Mr President, that when we receive an questions shall be governed by guidelines. agenda we make our arrangements to be present at the sitting. But if the agenda constantly 2. Before the close of question time any political is changing it becomes impossible to keep group or at least five Representatives may in line with it because, as everybody wil1 be aware, request that a debate be held immediately there- it is difficult for us to be present alt the time. This after on the Commission's answer to a clearly difficulty defined question general is common to all Members as the last of topical interest debate showed. during which brief oral questions, suggestions or comments may be addressed to the Commis- sion of the European Communities. I OJ No C4 of 14 February 1973. tL2 Debates of the European Parliament

Brlot

I therefore protest against this procedure and I do not understand why the Economic Affairs take the opportunity to emplr,asize that on 19 Committee has not had time to examine a draft and 20 December the Council acted unilaterally, produced ten months ago, or why, just when the that is to say without consulting us, in taking House was due to debate it, it suddenly trans- a decision on a regulation relating to alcohol. pires that nobody knows anything about it' And thus we have a discriminatory position in which one decision in relation to one State has President. I call Miss Lulling. been taken-a decision which I do not criticize, - quite the contrary,-but as to the other States, (tr') absence the they must wait! Miss LullinC. In the of Chairman, Mr Lange,- who, as you knov/' has had Thus, there are some obscurities, and I should to return to Germany, I, in turn, would wish to like an explanation of the reasons for the dele- reassure Mr Briot and tell him that there is tion of the report from the agenda. nothing obscure or confused in the present situation and that courtesy has never ceased to be previous I am advised that, during a sitting, it the rule. was decided to defer an item until the next part-session. I should like to point out that In fact, it was after noting, following the amend- hitherto courtesy has prevailed and that never ments submitted by Mr Briot to the report by before when it was election time in his State the Committee on Agriculture-which relate in has a rapporteur, whose timetable was in the particular to the industrial sector-that the com- nature of things very heavy, had the surprise mon organization of the market in ,alcohol is of finding his report deleted from the agenda. now affecting the industrial sector, that the Yet this is what has happened today. Chairman of the Economic Affairs Committee the The position therefore seems to me to be very judged that that Committee should have confused, and I very much regret that the opportunity of defining its position. deletion of this report has been allowed. I do not Mr Briot, I woutrd also like to reassure you on know who authorized it, but please permit me behalf of my Group, because we share your to object to such methods, especially in view of opinion a common organization of the the implications. that market in alcohol is necessary' Quite simply, we believe that the Economic Affairs Committee Fresident. Mr Briot, I regret having to spend - should be allowed to give its opinion and that so much time on points of procedure and I am is why we believe it would be more sensible sorry you were not present when this matter to discuss the matter at a future part-session. was dealt with. At the request of the Economic Affairs Com- Fresident. I call Mr Briot. mittee-and not of any Group or smaller group - House decided not to discuss the interim Mr Briot. (F) One is bound to admire the -thereport during this part-session so that the Eco- way in which- Miss Lulling expresses herself, nomic Affairs Committee could be associated in but I return to the issue which I raised: we know the study of this matter. very well that it is an industrial matter: That seeking confirmation. Yesterday Mr Oele introduced a request, on is the fact on which I was behalf of the Committee on Agriculture, that (Smiles) your report be put on the agenda. In view of the discussion that followed and the statement President. I declare the debate on the order by the Commission of the European Communi- of business- closed. ties that the Council would not take a decision this month, Mr Oele withdrew his request. Thus everything was perfectly in order and the 7. Oral Questi.on 26172 u:i.th debate: decision taken was accepted by the Chairman build-up oJ butter stoclcs and their use of the Committee on Agriculture. President. That was what happened. The next item on the agenda is Oral Question- 26172 from Mr Cipolla, Mr Amen- I think, Mr Briot, that the position is now clear dola, Mrs Carettoni Romagnoli, Mr D'Angelo- and the incident is closed. sante, Mr Fabbrini, Mrs Iotti, Mr Leonardi, Mr Marras and Mr Sandri to the Commission of I call Mr Briot. the European Communities on the build-up of butter stocks and their use. Mr Briot. (tr') Mr President, that clarifies the situation; -I was hot unaware of the facts. But The question reads as follows: Sitting of Thursday, 18 January lg73 113

Presiilent

1. Is the Commission in a position to forecast surplus stocks is a further demonstration that what quantities of butter will be warehoused the Community's agricultural policy in this with Community intervention agencies at the sector is wrong and that consumers in the Com- end of 1972? Having regard to recent statis- munity wiII suffer in the long run, although the tics and the impact of the accession of the main damage wiII be to the producers them- new Member States, what does it feel are selves. They have managed to make enormous the prospects for the immediate future? profits for a short period from the chosen protection system end they are put but in the 2. To what use will existing surpluses be moving towards economic r{isaster together with how much operation cost? Can and will the the Community institutions and finances. the Commission provide Parliament with a Iist of bodies and undertakings to which I believe that the clearest indication that this surplus amounts of butter have been allocat- butter production policy is wrong and contrary ed or sold over the past year? to nature will be found in the data supplied to us by the Community on per capi,ta butter 3. Does the Commission not think that the sale consumption in a country whose per capi.ta of stocks of butter to food industries (con- production and consumption used to be the fectionery, ice-cream, etc.) at prices well highest and whose actual production was the below market or intervention prices allows highest of the Community: Holland. In 1963, this tenderers to make huge profits and puts country consumed 41l2 kilos of butter per head. other competitors, which have to buy on the Its consumption dropped to 2ll2 kilos per head market at higher prices, at a disadvantage? by 19?0-71. The protectionist system which was Does it not consider that such sales also tend intended to favour certain interests finally led to cut down demand for butter on the normal to a drop, not an increase, in consumption. It market and therefore do not solve the is, therefore, a policy against nature: on the one problem of mayketing surpluses? hand it increases production while on the other it decreases consumption. 4. Why have the rules and procedures which used to be . applied to these sales been As I was saying, this policy has been conducted changed? by guaranteeing the price of butter in the Com- munity at a level higher not only than the world 5. In view of the fight against the rising cost market price but, as rdÿe shall see with the of living, does the Commission not consider entrance of Denmark, higher than that of other that, where the level of consumer prices in economies. This encouraged the producers to one or more areas of the Community exceeds produce not for the consumers but for the Com- 30 per cent of the target price to producers, munity warehouses, while at the same time the it would be more advantageous to channel quality of the butter was lowered. consumer sales through cooperatives, i.e. retail purchasing associations tied to an It is impossible to conduct a protectionist policy agreed price? without beariag other competing production sectors in mind. The fact that the Community I would remind you that Rule 47(3) of the Rules then had to liberalise imports of oil seeds of Procedure states that'One of the questioners altogether has, on the one hand, lowered the may speak to the question for up twenty price of vegetable oils and margarine-products minutes' artd that, after the institution concerned that compete with butter-while on the other it has answered, 'Representatives who wish to has reduced the cost of cattle feed products. For speak may do so for not more than ten minutes this reason, as stated by the Commission in the and may speak only once.' Lastly, 'One of the 1972 report on agriculture which refers to 1971, questioners may, at his request, briefly comment the ratio between the price of the basic feeds on the ansvrer given.' for dairy cattle and the price of milk (and there. fore of butter) led to an increase in production. I call Mr Cipolla to speak to the question. The same highly questionable measures which so cheered public opinion inside and outside the Mr Cipolla. (I) Mr President, the delay in Community, such as the giving of premiums for discussing this- question may afford the Commis- slaughtering dairy cows, did not achieve the end sion the opportunity of providing more precise stated by the Commission representatives in this information. It is too late to talk of the outlook House, in other words a decrease in the produc- for 1972, it is now a matter of record. Our tion of milk and butter and a resulting fall in question was motivated by the fact that the milk and butter surpluses. Those measures in whole European press was beginning to raise the fact led to a reduction in the number of cattle, problem of the build-up of surplus stocks of at a time of great shortage of beef in the Com- butter in the Community warehouses from the munity area, and they had an adverse effect on early months of 1972. This accumulation of the production of small farms and small herds, Lt4 Debates of the European Parliament

Ctpolla

while at the same time-siace they were virtual- colleagues who wish to make ,a statement, con- ly an incentive-they led to a rise in the pro- cern another fact: in making concessions to far- duction of large organisations and large farms. mers producing milk and butter, in actual fact The result was a rise in milk production. vr'e are confirming a dual price system qrithin the Community for the benefit of certain sectors This means that the Community has adopted of industry. reducing measures with the apparent aim of There is in fact a market price for the non-trade butter consumption and increasing the consump- consumer (in other words, the household) who larger tion of margarine, and this has led to buys a couple of pounds, a pound, a quarter of stocks of this product and has increased the cost a pound of butter, and there is another price to the Community. for industry. The House will remember all the discussions on the conversion of butter into feed four years ago We will all remember that about for calves, which had to take this butter-based drew the attention the Mansholt Memorandum feed instead of their mother cows' milk, and on public to the very fact that of European opinion various system of denaturing and deferred sales. the prices policy practised by the Community up to then was leading to this surplus situation, While, in the preliminary phase of building up so that various forms of action were nece§sary surpluses, we resorted to such picturesque and to reduce overproduction. Stocks of certain unproductive systems, today we are moving products, including butter, were indeed reduced, away from these and are at the core of the at great cost to the Community. The fact that question. At the very time at which stocks are the prices of these products remained firm for being formed, the Commission changes the pro- a few years led, I would not say to a contraction, cedures (and we wonder why these procedures for there \Mas a degree of stability, but to ,a were in fact changed) and immediately proceeds smaller surplus. On the one hand we have seen to auction off what is considered to be surplus that the last two annual decisions on price butter to the confectionery industry and to the increases, contemporary with the modernisation ice cream industry. of farms (especially in view of the disappearance As a result, we have two prices in the Com- of smaller farms and rising productivity) brought munity for two classes of consumers: the pri- about an increase in surplus stocks. vate conzumer, the worker, the worker's family a price that is made up of the interven- question. Our position buys at This is the reason for our price any increase which the trade our national interests; tion and is not dictated solely by on top; then we have the manu- national manages to add of course, we are also concerned with to buy their supplies on the problem surplus butter is facturers, who used interests, for the of market or who were obliged to procure their concern our country too, but the problem of to supplies on the market; nour' on the other hand, and of a general nature. is above all European they go to the Commission sales, paying half system adopted up to now We reaüse that this the intervention price for the same year's pro- is one of the reasons must be changed, and this duction, creating a situation-as we say-of question. like here to quote for our We would competition, of an infringement of Arti- is not altogether suc- unfair the example-even if it cles 85 and 86 of the Treaty. As a result, we open to criticism (and we our- cessful and is have a situation in which there is no longer a several times)aof the selves have critieised it single butter market in the Community but two system applied to olive oil. In this sector, mea- for industry and the other for the purpose of keeping markets---one sures are taken not for private consumers. up the price to the consumer but to supplement the producer's income directly out of Commun- But this is not all. The auction market is not ity funds. the province of industry as a whole but is used only by that part of industry which has access W'e are by no means engaging in controversy to the Community sales by virtue of its size, its vis-à-vis the small farmer, the German, Dutch or acquaiatances, its contacts and its ties with French farmer, but we do not want their gua- Commission circles (once Mr Mansholt said in ranteed income to be replaced by methods which this House that the walls of the Commission are proving to have such adverse effects for the building in Brussels have ears): in other words, purpose of maintaining a given production. If to that portion of industry which is able to put the consumption of butter continues to fall, itself forward and which is in a better position there is no doubt that this will not alter the than others to purchase butter at the sales. Community's attitude, the Community policy in this sector. Where rÿill this butter end up? I believe that the pages of the official Community documents The second point that we wish to raise in our contain at least a hundred or so questions show- question, addressed to the Commission and any ing that frauds in this product have been vast, Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 115

Clpolla

enormous. Our colleague Mr Vredeling will cer- this problem not to cause controversy between tainly recall the problem associated with imports one state and another, between people who get through the Vatican City, with the Community more from the Community and people who get premium. Those manufacturers who purchased less, but because we wished to highlight a pro- butter at 300 lire per kilo, what guarantees do blem of concern to all consumers, all taxpayers they give that they will not go and sell it again and a1l the Community farmers, beginning with to consumers on the market? And what gua- those who produce milk, butter and the products rantee is there that a great monopoly which can under discussion. make an offer for hundreds and thousands of tons of butter at a time in Brussels will not then resell it at the market price to the little producer or to the small-scale ice cream or IN TIIE CHÀIR: MT SCHIIIJT biscuit factory? This, then, is how the Commun- Vice-Presid,Ent ity's action profoundly affects free competition between companies, allowing certain pressure President. I call Mr Lardfunois to answer on groups to make enormous profits to the detri- - ment of the Community budget. In this way, behalf of the Commission. funds allocated to help growers and small farmers are being used for speculation of this Mr Lardinois, Member of the Comrnission of the nature. I think the Commission should tell us Euroçtean Communlti,es. (N) Mr President, who these companies are and the quantity of may I, before giving my reply,- say a few words butter which each one has purchased and at on the fact that this is the first time that I have what price, and that it must guarantee that the the honour of appearing in this House in this butter wiII be used for the purpose for which distinguished company. I had the honour of it has been purchased. It should not, as has being a Member of this Parliament for four been the case so many times, even with dena- years. That was ten years ago. It is a very great tured products for the production of composite pleasure for me to see a number of very good foods processed by the European companies- friends and esteemed colleagues from that time end up with European consulners. back again at this meeting today. lhis pleases me particularly. I also greatly look forward to the There is, then, another problem which I should cooperation and friendship that I shall find here discuss like to briefly. I refer to inflation, to in carrying out my new, .lifficult task, even if, the high cost of living and the fact that today as f assume, our encounters may often not be competitiveness, even at the international level entirely devoid of acrimony. of the economy of EEC States, imperilled by the. rise in the cost of living, an increase which May I hope and trust that as Member of the naturally legitimises the workers' well-founded Commission entrusted with the Agriculture claims for wage increases. If we wish to start portfolio, a subject that is discussed a lot here, on a new phase in the life of our Community, I may build up a good relationship between this as it has been affirmed with such emphasis in Parliament and the Commission in general and all the speeches celebrating the undoubtedly myself personally? historic event through which we have been 1iv- ing over the past few days, we must lseliss Mr President, I now come to the zubject now that a specific solution to the problem of the on the agenda, the questions put by Mr Cipolla cost of living must be found. This problem and others. I may say that speaking figuratively (especially in my own country, where the per- and almost literally I have landed with my nose centage spent on food is higher than in any in the butter on my first appearance here as other Member State) must be tackled seriously. a member of the Commission. I should very I believe that one of the fundamental causes of much like to answer these questions as pre- the rise in the cost of living, and therefore of cisely and briefly as possible. inflation, is the Community's agrieultural pro- The first question was: Can the Commission give policy, tectionist the butter sector being one of an estimate of the quantities of butter transfer- examples. the On this occasion I would once red at the end of. 1972 to the Community's con- again call upon the Commission to tell us tigency stocks. whether the commitment entered into last March during voting on Community directives The answer is: As far as the Community's con- and on increases in agricultural prices will be tingency stocks are concerred this is some continued and whether it will propose to Par1ia- 240,000 tons of butter. With the CommunitSr's ment a rlifferent system of aid to agriculhrral assistance some 60,000 tons of butter were stored workers, of direct income supplements and not privately. Altogether this is some 300,000 tons merely the manipulation of prices, for this is of butter, stightly more than 2 months of pro- the vital problem today. Sre wanted to raise duction by the Community. 116 Debates of the European Parliament

Larilinols

Has the Commission calculated the prospects peting organisations, who must obtain their in the light of experience and assessed the con- stocks on the market at higher prices? sequences of the accession of the new Member States? Mr President, I should like to repudiate this, at least white use is made on a large scale of As far as the immediate future is concerned, on the opportunity for application, which is open an important date for the dairy market, namely to everyone and which is not sporadic but 1 April next, we expect to be holding much the recurs regularly. I have personal o

Larillnols operative organisations, such as retailers' At that moment there were reasons to assume purchasing associations, I should like to reply that it v/as a question of structural surpluses' as follows: They, too, naturally have a function For that reasion the reforms suggested by Mr in this process, they are given their chance, but Mansholt were partly justified. individual control of prices is an impossible task for the Community. This, however, ulas followed by the years 1970 (Applau,se) a:ld 1971. We have established that we were faced by a genuine shortage of dairy produce in 19?1. The inclination is now to consider this President. - Thank you Mr Lardinois. problem as a cyclical rather than a structural You began your intervention, Mr Lardinois, by phenomenon. recalling that you were a Member of the Euro- pean Parliament. On ,behalf of all Members I I should like to point out that the reduced should like to tell you how glad we are that production has had an important effect on world you have accep,ted the responsibility of Commis- prices and consumers' prices. In 1971, for sioner of the European Communities. instance, we had market prices for butter of 130 dollars. In 1969-1970 that price was 55 'W'e shall now adjourn until 3 p.m. dollars. For powdered milk the price was 25 1969-1970 and 70 dollars in 1971. The sitting is clo,sed. dollars in By 1969 and 1970 the point had been reached (The ntti,ng, ad,journed at 72.55 p.rn. uros rezumed where large subsidies were given for the export at,3 p.m.) of butter and powdered milk. In 1971 the clock had to be put back. It then became necessarJr and grant premiurns President. The sitting is resumed. to impose'Ievies on exports - for imports. Since 1971 we have been faced by The next item on the agenda is continuation of a definite reversal in the ratio production- the debate on Oral Question 26/72 on the build- demand./supply-sales. At this juncture it seems up of surplus butter stocks and their use. right to consider how production and sales are affected, because they are the decisive factors speak I call Mr Martens to for the Christian in the buitrd-up of surpluses. We all know that Democratic Group. production depends on the overall numbers of Iivestock, and on the weather which we are asi Mr Martens. the Ch,ri,stian-Democ:rati,c -for yet unable to control. Producers' prices may also Group. - (N) Mr President, Ladies and Gentle- affect production. If it is a question of butter, men, I listened with great attention to the we do well to realise that butter is in fact a rather emotional speech made by Mr CipoIIa surplus product. Initial milk products are milk on five questions which are nevertheless very f or consumption, industrial derivatives, powdered concrete and to the point. I listened with equal milk, condensed milk, cheese and so forth. attention to the sober and businesslike reply made by Mr Lardinois which proves that he The remainder is turned entirely into butter. If, knows the problems very well. I should like on an overall supply of 60,000 million Iitres of to congratulate Mr Lardinois, because he has milk, production increases by 5 per cent, we prevented the discussion from turning into a may as,sume that the 5 per cent will lead to an wide debate on general agricultural policy, in increase of butter production by 10 per cent, particular on the dairy and beef policy. The i.e. approximately 130 to 150 tons. the actual latter we can discuss when dealing with the situation is, in fact, ,close to that figure. I think agricultural prices for the nevr season as from that we shall have to bear in mfud the cyclical 1st April 1973. phenomenon of milk production. If one looks at problem five-year period, can It was my wish to ,confine myself to the factual the dairy over a it production 1968 question regarding the surpluses and the use to be assumed that butter from L972 was average 1,300,000 tons and which these surpluses are to be put. These to on surpluses are, as confirmed by Mr Lardinois, consumption approximately I,150,000 tons. Of course, fluctuations occur within a five year of the order of 300,000 tons. If is as well to period, years surpluses years of recall 1969-1970, when we had a butter surplus with of and secure supply all of approximately the same size. shortages. In order to the in circumstances it \ffill be necessary to sell \ü'e know, however, that it u/as an accumulated approximately 150,000 tons at lower prices. stock which had grown since 1965. Initially the We shall approve the measures taken by the surplus amounced to 30,000 to 40,000 tons per Commission and the Council, but have neverthe- annum, later 60,000 to 70,000 and even 80,000 less some objections to raise. I pointed these tons per annum. out some months ago. Because we shall have 118 Debates of t,Le European Parliament

Martens regular surpluses avail.able, long-term measures reappearance of excess butter supplies as one will have to be taken to dispose of them. of these.

It is a pity that we should not even have been It is, of course, necessiary to try to overcome able in 1971 to meet our obligations within the these disadvantages, but that will not be achie- framework of the \[rorld Food Programme. ved by raising certain questions here. The cou- We shall have to aim at a longer-term policy rage to adjust relative price levels for agricul- directed towards an expansion of sales. tural produce is required, and that is no easy In the years 1969-1970 we found imFortant matter, as rr/e know. It would be necessary to rnarkets in non-Member States and even in rethink our system of guarantees, for example, developing countries. As a result of the steps in the way I suggested in this House, specifi- taken in 1971 these markets have fallen off. I cally when we discussed the common organiza- think an effort wiII have to be made to give a tion of the market in tobacco. lasting effect to the steps taken. We should not be so careless as to slide from one extreme to But there again Mr Cipolla v/as not in agree- the other. ment. At the time, his supporters accusied me of seeking to ruin the tobacco growers. I should like to point out to the Commission that the steps refenred to have been taken somewhat Mr President, I wonder how many farmers belatedly. As long ago as in April and May it would have been ruined if the Community had u/as to be foreseen that the situation in 7972 not introduced the protection and agricultural would be totally different from that in 1971. price levels against which Mr Cipolla is now The measures which has been shown to be con- militating. When it comes to olive oil or vine- ducive to the disposal of surrpluses should have growing, for example, Mr Cipolla never finds been reinstituted at that time. that there is too much protection, yet without it there would be no more production of olive oil There is, therefore, a problem with regard to in ltaly, in particular. If protection, which we markets. We all know that at all events ,con- consider to be justified, is desired.in order to sumption stagnates and that vegetable fats are maintain the production of olive oil in a certain increasingly used. This increase has been causd region of the Community-although olive oil is partly by the difference in price between butter much more expensive for the workers, for whom and vegetable fats and to a large extent by the Mr Cipolla wishes to act as champion, than striking publicity based on the adverse effect groundnut oil, just as butter is much more ex- of the cholesterol content of some arrimal fats. pensive for them than margarin*then one does I believe that we should endeavou,r to ,correct not have the right to refuse farmers in other this situation- I have already said that we should regions of the Community similar protection and end,eavour to find outlets in non-Member States. fair prices for dairy products. \Me should make an effort to improve quality, but I believe that it is also time for the Mr President, f believe, as does my Group, that agricultural world to counteract the very the rural population, like the other sectors of spectacular publicity given to the use of certain the population in our various Member States, nutritional fats. is entitled to a fair return for its work. That population is also entitled to proteetion as long as Mr President, our Group approves the steps many of those in this House lack the courage to taken, but also emphasizes the fact that in implement the structural reforms or any other future the market situation will require close system, such as deficiency paSrments, to guaran- study in order to prevent the build-up of addi- tee the farming population a standard of living tional surpluses. Lasting measures need to be and way of life comparable to those of other taken in order to eradicate those surpluses. sectors of the population but without running the risk of surpluses such as excess butter President. I call on Miss Lulling to speak on supplies. behalf of the- Socialist Group. I would also mention for the benefit of the honourable Member who put the question that, Miss Lulling (F). President, Ladies and Mr fortunately for the farmers of the Member States Gentlemen, we do not- see this issue as an oppor- of the Community, they are still free to produce tunity to re-open the whole matter of the what they wish to produce. Common Agricultural Policy as envisaged by our friend President Mansholt which, although it I should like to say to him that if I, personally, affords many advantages to farmers in the Mem- had the choice between our surplus stocks and ber States of the Communi§r, also produces some the shortage of certain foodstuffs under the regrettable consequences, and I would quote tJle system and regimes which he favours, I, for my Sitting of thursday, 18 January 19?3 r19

Lu[lns part, would prefer to be concerned with dealing courage to readjust the relative price levels ! with and solving the problem of surpluses than W'e know that is none too easy, but we urge the with how to eke out stocks when production is Commission nevertheless to give priority to footl inadequate. aid in the present situation, pending a recasting of the agricultural policy. \il'e do not wish to see Mr President, the problems involved in reducing malpractices appear, but I believe that we would stocks, and the malpractices and distortions of not avoid them even by supplying butter to wel- competition which inevitably arise from the fare organizations, because in certain of those sale of stocks at cut prices, are very well known. organizations, it would go in through the front ïÿe regret this situation and in our opinion it is door and out by the back door. Some manufac- necessary to try to find another system, another turers will take advantage of this, others will solution. not; hence there wifl be distortion of competi- 'What tion. The scheme of cut-price sales within the is the solution ? Community gives rise to distortions of competi- The one suggested by Mr CipoIIa, namely to tion; it encourages malPractices. such butter for those regions reserve cut-price In these circumstances, we should try to be gen- price highest the cooper- where the is or for erous to third countries to avoid creating disrup- atives? tion within the Common Market and encoura- Such systems are just as discriminatory as the ging such malpractices. In the meantime, I be- one currently in operation. Iieve that we should make very serious efforts to reform our system. Either we accept the con- We are especia§ av/are as Members of the So- sequences of the present system, which, I think, cialist Group, of the important role played by has many advantages for farmers-and I chal- the consumer cooperatives in certain regions of lenge you all to find a means of totally elimi- our Community, but unfortunately not in all the nating all protection for the farmers in our regions of the Community. If we adopt this pro- countries, whatever form it takes-or we must posal we shall be opening the way to a new rethink the system. form of discrimination. (Applause) Mr President, we know also that consumer habits are such that not even lower prices would President. I call on Baroness Elles t'c speak on bring about an increase in the consumption of behalf of the- Conservative GrouP. butter in certain countries of the Community. Baroness Elles. I shatl be speaking on behalf fn our opinion, therefore, it is the function of - the Commission to submit proposals which, of the Conservative Group but I would like first whilst guaranteeing the income of the farming to take this opportunity of expressing my deep population-even people in the regions not re- personal satisfaction that at any rate part of the presented here by Mr Cipolla-are no longer United Kingdom is represented in this Parlia- conducive to surplus production. We believe that ment and that I have the privilege of being able an endeavour must be made to set matters in to address this AssemblY. order for once and for all. I would also lile, because of the perhaps punctuality which some of us Which would be the more costly ? unseemly with arrived this morning, causing a slight flutter It is unacceptable that we in this House should among the interpreters, to say, and I speak on defend the incomes of all other sectors of the behalf of our Group, how grateful we are for population and not gfant fair prices to farmers, all the help and co-operation we have had in whether self-employed or not, irrespective of these first three days which must have been whether these prices are guaranteed by the pre- extremely difficult for translators and inter- sent system, which causes surplus stocks or, as preters dealing with all of our demands. We can I proposed in the case of tobacco, by ensuring only say how grateful we are and express the guaranteed earnings within the framework of hope that we will be as co-operative and controlled production. Let the Commission put undemanding as possible. proposals to us ! The questions which have been raised by Mr But for the moment, in view of the fact that we Cipolla this morning together with the lucid again have surplus butter stocks, I believe that ansurer by Commissioner Lardiaois have raised the Commission should give priority to food aid certain issues. These are of particular outside the Community. This is admittedly diffi- importance and of intimate concern to con- cult with butter. If it were powdered milk it sumers. We recognise that it is a problem to find would be less difficult; however, let us have the suitable methods of support while at the same 120 Debates of the European Parliament

Baroness Elles time attempting to regulate milk and butter without a cow. The slaughtering policy sf lailling production to the level of demand. This may the excess number of animals was tried in involve several considerations. 1969 and farmers were given premiums. This was a global policy. I question whether it is For instance, how does one assess the level of advisable to have such a poücy when there are demand for butter in the Community, let alone so many different varieties of farm. There is the in the rest of the world, as the standard of very large farm of 500 to 1,000 hectares and liüng rises? Even within the Community there the small farmer in Tuscany or anywhere in is a wide range of consumption. Without Italy with, say, six or seven hectares. The üsrespect to Mr Cipolla, I would tike to quote problems in such cases cannot be the same. what are new figures. The annual per capita consumption in Italy is about 2 kg. whereas in I wonder whether there should not be a slightly Ireland it is about L}yzke. more flexible approach to this issue. !ÿ'e shall be faced with a contiaual surplus of butter if fn considering how to support butter prices we are to have increasing beef production- Mr Cipolla mentioned the olive oil market, and unless the scientists find nevr methods of I speak here as an interested party because I breeding cattle. We should focus our attention produce olive oil. He must be well aware that on whether alternative uses for dairy products the olive oil problem has no relation at all to the should be found. Should there be greater butter problem or to any of the dairy products encouragement to drink milk, not only in the produced throughout the Community. It is a Community but outside ? So far we have heard closed market with completely r{iffslent labour of only one dairy product, butter. Should there problems, and the marketing and distribution be greater encouragement to eat cheeses, both problems of olive oil bear no relation to those on nutritional grounds and on grounds of food of butter. value, again not only inside the Community but outside ? Shou1d there be more dried milk The other question is : How do we ensure that products for world markeLs, not only in the the farmer obtains an adequate return for his Community ? Are there other uses to which labour? Just as important is meeting the needs milk and butter products can be put ? W'e are of the consumer by efficient distribution and continually being told by the scientists that reasonable prices. I want to put a question to the world's resources are being used up rapidly. the Commissioner. He dealt with this matter of \ühy does not any scientist-and may I state selling butter cheaply to certain margarine I am not one-ever think of a way of using producers and said that these kinds of margarine any of the dairy products in which there is no are not in competition with butter. We in our deficit at a1l-on the contrarÿr \r/ê are always Group would.be glad for some elucidation of this being told that the surplus cannot be used for because in our country we cannot think of any some more practical purpose than being kept form of margarine which does not in some way in warehouses-for some of our other needs ? act in competition with our butter supplies. This, of course, should be done where there Perhaps in the Community of the Six there was is a surplus. a different problem. In our country we have always believed that A question which the consumer is entitled to one of the major roles in joining the Community ask is: Why is it that when there is a shortage, rüas to help developing countries, especially prices rise, yet when there is a surplus they those where there is a very graphic food never appear to fall? I know that this is difficult, shortage. I am sure I speak for my Group when bearing in mind world prices, inflation and- I say we should support any system of food aid one of the objectives of the Common Agri- to countries which are short of food when there cultural Po1icy-the achievement of stability is food surplus to the requirements of the in prices. Nevertheless, this does not seem to Community. have been achieved so far, and I wonder whether The disposal of butter stocks, of course, is a it ever will be. matter which I shall make quite clear does not affect the United Kingdom time The question of produc- for the surplus milk and butter being. With our estimated present stocks tion is inextricably inter-related and with that of estimated production for this year, together with beef. I have not heard that subject mentioned the authorised imports from New Zealand, we yet. If v/e are to produce sufficient beef to meet should have adequate supplies for the United the ever-increasing demands not only in the Kingdom. Community but throughout the world, we shall inevitably be faced with a continued surplus. In connection urith New Zealand, ure are This is one of the problems wtüch man has not reminded of the agreement with which, I would yet managed to solve-how to have beef cattle say, both New Zealand and the United Kingdom Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 tzt

Baroness Elles

have Rafton Pounder. Mr President, I should vrere very satisfied. Both countries Mr - expressed their satisfaction that the Community like to open in exactly the same way as did would not pursue any commercial policy my colleague, Baroness Elles, because those of undermining New Zealand's search for new us like me whose French is, to say the least markets. of it, at schoolboy level, have been in need during the week of a great deal of assistance. This, of course, to some extent will affect the This has been forthcoming with great generosity 'Whereas programme compared with past years. from everybody in this Parliamerrt and those before, the EAGGF provided export compensa- associated with it. I for one would very much tory payments for butter sold cheaply in Asia and like to join in the expressions of gratitude. the Far East, it would surely be beneficial for Likewise, I hope none of us will be too demand- the Community now that these markets are no ing. longer available, to find ways for the EAGGF to subsidise the sale of dairy products within the I must admit that when last I spoke in this Community. hall five years ago in a Council of Europe capacity, I never irt my wildest moments thought I would say not only to makers of ice cream I should be here in the European Parliament, but to those classes of society at a financial nor that the first occasion on which I should disadvantage-here I am thinking of people speak in this august Assembly would be on a like old-age pensioners, the numbers of which subject on which I have never even ventured are ever-increasiag, schoolchildren and child- to speak in my own national Parliament, ren under five; and here I am not speaking namely, agriculture. However, suctr is the for my Group because I have not consulted importance of butter in the Community at this them-that I do not' accept that they cannot time that I feel I must take some brief com- have this because of an administrative difficulty. ments, and the more so as I come from an area If you want them to have it, they can get it. of the United Kingdom where v/e are not only There are ways of doing this on family al- large per capita consumers of butter but large lowance books and old-age pension books. producers. I refer to Northern Ireland. Although this is not a party political problem, I would be grateful if the Commissioner would In parenthesis, might I add that I refer to examine it. Northern Ireland here purely in the context of the background to this subject. I certainly hope From what I have said it is quite clear that we I am sure honourable Members in this as a Group appreciate the very real problems -andParliament will equally agree-that the other which face the Commissioner because there aspects of Northern Ireland which one hears are so many things that are involved, whether about tragically through the news media are it is the question of beef production, the demo- not subjects for discussion in this Assembly but graphic problem of moving farmers into the are rather a domestic issue. towns or the general economic laws of supply and demand. Thus, when we are considering There are three courses of action which the the price of butter we have to take all these Commission can take in dealing with what is questions into account. As a member from the acknowledged to be the mountaia of butter. One United Kingdom, I would say v/e even have is the time-honoured concqlt of 'Let us do noth- go to consider the time-old tag of the Britons, the ing and hope that the problem wiII away.' total weather. On that basis I would expect there to be disaster. This is not a problem which will 'When, as I hope he will do, the Commissioner resolve itself. It must be tackled by means of prepares a report on this matter in order that positive action. The action could, of course, be vse may üscuss it again in the Assembly, may to put some of these surplus stocks into Third I ask him to bear in mind the points we have 'W'orld markets. I realise that the Comrnunity reised and, in particular, not only to look to the quite rightly is preoccupied with its own prob- needs of the farmer but to balance those needs lems and the challenges which, in its enlarged with the needs of the consumer ? form, are now evident. However, "to seek Third (Applause) 'World markets" could be another term for dumping, and dumping would be a disastrous policy gravest international implica- May I thank Baroness Elles with the President. tions. It is inevitable that the international for her kind words at the beginning of her position dairy products of New Zealand Conservative Group in speech on behalf of the would be crippled-I do not think that is too members of this Parliament and to the to the strong a word-were there to be a dumping the ? members of staff programme to get rid of the butter stocks. Like I call Mr. Pounder. Baroness Elles, I think everybody in the United Debates of the European Parliament

Pouniler

Kingdom and New Zealand greatly appreciates Do not let us allow the dairy farmer to lose. the generous approach during the period of He is already receiving in marry cases a small negotiations to New Zealand dairy problems enough return for the work which he under- adopted. talces. I am not suggesting that it is at the producer end that the prices should be altered; As to the thind course of action, having elimin- it is at the consumer end where the situation ated doing nothing and haviag eliminated should be changed. dumrping, one must novÿ come to the idea of (Applause) some form of direct intervention. I agree with Mr. Martens' observations that the problem could be either structural or cyclical. In my The President. - May I express the same thanks view, it is inevitably structural, and for that in the same kind words to the same people. reason some form of intervention by the EAGGF I call Mr Cifarelli. or some other agency is obviously necessary. This, I suppose, could be called the use of the subsidy mechanism. The fact is there are vast stocks. Mr Cifarelli (0. Mr President, Ladies and Gentlemen, - trIhen the Commissioner replies to the debatg Miss Lulling has already spoken on behalf of the Group might I ask him to reply to one speci_fic to which I am allied and I question? As I uaderstood his answer, he quoted shall therefore confine my remarks to a few per- points. a surplus of 300,000 metric tons or thereabouts. sonal I have been led to ask for the floor The latest information I was able to obtain from because I think that Commissioner Lardinois's the United Kingdom as recently as yesterday reply and the debate itself have taken us very was that the stock surplus in the nine countries far from the point. of the Co,mmunity is 470,000 metric tons. By We wanted to tackle once again the problem of any standards, whether one accepts the 300,000 agricultural aid in a free market system, the or the 4?0,000 figure, one is talking in terms of problem of animal and vegetable fats, the massive stocks, stocks which com- witl be increased petition to these, the level of consumption of once the dairy herds go back to the pasture these products, the creation of surpluses and so lands when the winter has receded. on. However, Mr President, what I believe to have been fhis is a desperately serious and urgent prob- Mr Cipolla's timely question brings up two basic lem. I hope it is not contrary to the spirit of issues competition that there should be some means of W'e are not discussing agricultural poliry in re- attracting the consumer to buy butter. Margarine lation to butter at this moment. The question is a competitor with butter. From my earliest refers to certain consequences of the policy of days I seem to recall newspaper and television eliminating or containing butter surpluses, advertisements assuring me I could not tell the those stocks which, as we have just this minute seen, difference. They are standing in competition one may be evaluated at such disparate with the other. figures, as in the case of so many things in free countries (and-heaven As Mr. Martens also rightly said, butter pro- knows !-not only in free coun- duction is the end of the milk cycle after liquid tries). milk, skim milk, cheese arrd other all the The Commissioner responsible functions for which milk can be used have has spoken of 800 been thousand metric tons, pounder ta.ken account of. while Mr has mentioned the figure of 420,000 tons. I am not Perhaps we could have for a period of time, zufficiently well informed, nor am f competent, until the stocks are reduced and until the to make a pronouncement on the subjeci. It is structural defect-for such it would appear to in relation to tJlis that the question raises two be-is remedied, some form of subsidy so far points. First of all, \ilê wonder whether it is true as the consumer is concerned, because this that, as a change to previous systems, certain subject must be related to the beef crisis. If quantities of this surplus butter have beeu sold that problem is not correctly solved, what is off at special prices to certain firms, to certain an existing butter crisis will become a disaster industrial undertakings, and tr/e are asking for of enormous proportions. information, a list of their names or the trad.es concerned. On this zubject-may I be permitted Because of my political beliefs I do not like to to point out-the Commissioner has told us noth- advocate the concept of a subsidy structurg but ing except that the individual manufacturer, in a grave and serious situation oiceptional even the baker, may buy this eheap butter. No methods must be tried. I would respectfully details have been given and f be[eve that these submit that such an exceptional meazure should should be forthcoming. Above all, it should be be the use of some form of subsidy mecharrism. stated whether or not there are grounds for a Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 r2it

Cifa,relll concern which I believe to be well-founded: concept of my colleague, Mr Cipolla, (indeed, we when a source of supply is created for industry are often in conflict on this), believe that this in order to sell off stocks, the price being deter- question is inspired by the concern for the mined by I know not what means but which is principle of control over the functioning of this at a far more advantageous level, not only does whole that we call the common agficultural this distort the basis of competition but it acts policy, a principle of good administrative con- in favour of Mr X or Mr Y, in favour of this duct and democratic reliability. I believe that company or that company. Furthermore, we the points raised in the House deserve a clear should üke to see by what means such advan- and detailed reply. tages are created. President. I call Mr Dewulf. In a free market where the situation is deter- - mined only 'by current events, we in Italy say that it is the Hand of God. In one region it may Mr Dewulf. Mr President, I suppose that Mr - made on rain a good deal and the wine is poor; in ano- Lardinois will deal with the remarks ther, the weather may be good and the wine food aid to developing countries through the sup- produced is excellent, and this has different ply of dairy produce. I beüeve that it is possible effects upon the market. Im such a case, this to seek and think further in ,that direction. would be the Hand of God. But when the Com- I request the attention of Mr Scarascia Mugnoz- muaity authority intervenes, then the hand of za's successor, who himself was Mr Mansholt's man must be subjected to controls based on the successor, for a suggestion made by me at the criteria of justice, impartiality and prudence, to time, but for which I have not received any prevent even more serious disruption. response from either the responsible members of the Commission or the administration. I feel This the first point. I believe it has escaped is supported to such a degree by Baroness Elles's attention up to now and I should like to submit words that I should like to dwell upon them for it to the Commission for special consideration. a few moments. In some parts of the Community Then there is a second point : aid to developing people eat bread and buter. "Bread and butter" non-Member States. is a euphemism for the eating habit of many I remember (our colleagues from the United families, particularly the large families. There, People Kingdom will have heard of this) that once upon to'have butter on one's bread is a luxury. a tirne a rumour circulated that certain cartrid- are forced to use margarine for the so-called ges were greased with a certain fat and an im- bread and butter. And I know what large fami- whereby mense and shattering mutiny arose in a country lies are. If one could find a system then uader Her Britannic Majesty's flag. But, butter surpluses could be sold at a price which this, there are so many countries is competitive with the retail price of margarine, apart from all group towards which might be directed whose one could undoubtedly reach a con§iumer aid point mechanism of financing and control is very which is of interest from a social of view' familiar to us. I should like to make the concrete suggestion There is another question on which a stand must that by way of a test taken at random an enqui- be taken unless, when we raise the problem of ry be instituted into consumers' habits, into the eliminating surpluses, more account is taken of actual situation in the large families as far as the consumer associations, the consumer coope- butter and margarine are concerned. That en- ratives, in other words of bodies acting more quiry could, if need be, me made with the co- directly on behalf of the consumer population operation of the family associations. I am of the rather than on behalf of the producers who opinion that a technical-administrative system would otherwise be arbitrarily favoured in com- could be devised, by way of the Child Allowan- petition and obtain advantages which might be ces Funds, etc., to make this butter available at very substantial but have little justification. a reduced price to certain social categories, in particular the large families, without there being There seem to me to be two fundamental points the risk of abuse or falsification. at issue. It can be argued that in certain countries cooperatives are not truly democratic bo- President. I call Mr Jakobsen. dies and may lend themselves to speculation; it - may be said that consumers' organisations in other countries are not sufficiently comprehen- Mr Erhard Jakobsen (DK). It is quite natural sive and efficient, and these are concrete pro- for a Danish Member to intervene- in a discus- blems of action. But it is these very problems sion of the butter surplus. However, I must say that the question emphasises, I believe opportu- at once that from reading about it, we know it nely. I, who do not share much of the basic best as a problem which might still further di- 124 Debates of the European Parliament

Jakobsen minish the advantages for Denmark of entry sumers as the poor. fn a good many countries, into the European Community. rvVe have not ta- including Denmark, there will be a good many ken this too seriously-I have the impression producers who are considerably poorer than the that perhaps in this discussion a little too much consruners, And this must be borne in mind exclusive attention has been paid to the fact when the measures to be adopted are being that there are now surplus stocks of butter and thrashed out. how to get rid of them-I am not going to try to deal with this. I am in complete agreement with my English colleague, who said that if something is to be A lot of good suggestions which could be tried done it must be in controlling consumption, not have been made-but I would like to point out controlling the incomes of those who produce, one thing which I learned when I was first be- because there isn't so very much to be picked coming acquainted with agricultural problems up here to begin with. as an economics student, and that is that the Thank you, Mr President. chief characteristic of agriculture is the many alternative forms of operation available. Has President. I call Mr Cipolla. anyone considered that, instead of taking butter - away from the consumer market, one could Mr Cipolla (0. President, perhaps offer agriculture other uses for its pro- - Mr first of all I duction resources ? would like to thank those Members who have been so good as to provide their valuable con- What about milk production ? Instead of encou- tributions to this discussion, making this debate raging people to use more hutter one might so useful for Parliament and for our institutions. encourage them to use more milk. Perhaps the milk could be used for milk powder. Perhaps \il'ith regard to the reply from the Commissioner, there are places where dried milk could be use- I must say that I was disappointed at what he ful. If we gave butter to people in the various did not say, at the replies he did not give, and underdeveloped countries vre would simply be I shall be commenting further on the Commis- killing them off a little faster than they are now sion representative's statements is response to dying of starvation. There must be more possi- my questions. ble alternative uses than there are actually uses I had asked-and I believe this to be the primary for butter. task of a parliamentarian-about the foreseeable cost of this new version of the mountain of In this connection I would like to dispute what Community butter; a cost foreseeable not only my ltalian colleague said earlier this afternoon. in the light of the formation of these new sur- is really not right to blame the agricultural It pluses but also in consideration of the fact that regulations for the fact that butter consumption from 1 April the Communi§r will be broad- has fallen, for instance in the Netherlands. The ened and as a result other producers will enter fact that people are ceasing to eat as much but- and will rightly claim the same measures of deter may be due to quite different factors. Per- fence as the producers of the six Member States. haps some Dutchwomen have been told that you And I believe that, in its reply, the Commission don't improve your looks by eating butter; so should state this, and if it does not v/ish to state they using other materials instead. is not are It this now it has the duty of issuing an official consumption. really this which is wrong with communication. These are two independent problems. Furthermore, what it has not said concerns the In any case, I would like people to look at the firms which have benefited from the purchase alternative possibüties. What can v/e use far- of butter up to this time. I was not enquiring mers for, other than producing butter, and how which baker in Haarlem bought a hundred could we set about encouraging farmers through pounds of butter, nor can this be a matter fo- the agricultural regulations to produce some- the House. I believe that the Commission, if it thing other than butter ? I don't know the whole wishes, could tell us the number of purchasers mechanism, I admit it frankly, $re are just be- and provide a list of those purchasers who ginners. I know it is all very complicated, but have bought substantial quantities af butter, in I would ask that consideration be given to the other words the large Dutch, Italian, French and alternative possibilities. German complexes, and so on. And so finally to certain trends which have I wished to emphasise-and I believe that many emerged in the discussion. As someone who other Members are in explicit or implicit agree- knows a lot about his Danish countrymen, f ment with my comment-that it is extremely would like to say that one must not regard the harmful to the general interest and also to the agricultural producers as the rich and the con- spirit of the Treaty of Rome and the Community Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 L25

Ctpolla institutions that there should be two markets, Lardinois, that we can help you out of this one at a privileged price and the other at a far rather embarrassing position, if you will work higher price, and that the preferential market with Parliament, which has expressed itself in should be made up of industrial buyers and not such clear terms in this debate, to make a radi- consumers. cal change in a situation which is now arisiag for the second time and is such a serious pro- This is the first consequence: a family man (and blem for our Community. And this can be done, Mr Dewulf who has a large family has reminded if one wishes, without harming the producers' us of the problem) must pay three times more interests, indeed reconciling them with the in- for his butter than an industrialist purchasing it terests of consumers and of the Community as for processing. The Member who preceded me a whole. has said that in Holland a baker does not have this problem, but the Community, honourable President. I call Mr Lardinois, a Member of Members, is not confined to Holland. A baker - from Edinburgh or Palermo cannot go ard buy the Commission of the European Communities. from the warehouses storing the surpluses-as can a small producer operating in the areas of Mr Lardinois, (F) Mr President, I should like these warehouses. T?re Italians or the Irish who to deal with the- various questions which have can do something like this obviously have large been put forward in second instance. I wish complexes behind them and have the means of to start with Mr Marten' questions. Mr Martens paying to ship butter from a market where it has pointed out that two years ago we ceasd costs 300 lire a kilo to a market where it costs the promotion of sales by more or less artificial 1400 lire, the price paid by the ltalian consumer. means, because production and demand in the Who prevents anyone from doing such a thing ? Common Market were then in balance. Even Nobody. I believe that this should be stated; then there rü/as a time when production lagged since a specific question has been raised on the behind normal sales and v/e rilere able to use subject, I cannot but urge the Commissioner the stocks rdre vrere keeping in cold store at the once again to carry out his duty and provide a time. This situation lasted for about a year, so list, not of the small firms who can be numbered that we automatically and even over a fairly in dozens or hundreds, but of the other compa- short-term period could get rid of our stocks. nies making purchases of more than 50 or 100 This was the case not only in the Communi§r, tons, so that each one of us can have a better but in the whole of Western Europe and even grasp of the situation. in the whole world. So much for the butter situation in 1971. 'With regard to the comments of a general nature, Mr President-and I am coming to the end I wish to emphasize that a certain measure of must state that we do not raise the problem stockpiling of staple produce, among which I (and-I in this I agree with certain comments on the would include some foodstuffs such as butter and part of the Socialist Group) of reduciag the cereals, has a useful and very important function necessary aid which must be given in a market for the consumer. It is of benefit to the consumer system to the small agricultural producers who if certain periods of scarcity resulting from the have no power over the market, in other words weather or from accident, may be bridged by a the intervention measures in favour of growers. kind of buffer stock. The normal buffer stock But I must recall that these measures, adopted at cannot really be called surplus. A surplus arises a sacrifice by the Community to help farmers, only if the limit of buffer stocks is clearly sur- have proved to be of benefit to other forces, not passed. W'here is this timit? I would not say that to the farmers. When I spoke of olive oil-and for a common market with 250 million inhabi- I would address my remark to Miss Lulling in tants a stock of 300,000 tons of butter is excessive. particular-I said that the price did not rise on On the contrary, the stock may, from the point of the market to help the oil producers but that it view of the provision of the consumer, be called was, with many imperfections, an integration of 'We, acceptable. Unless-and now I am putting the the price. Mr Lardinois, do not make dis- matter in a different light-this stock has arisen tinctions between one farmer and another, and very quickly and we may assume in addition that we believe therefore that in the case under con- this stock in this case 300,000 tons might be in- sideration an intervention measure could be creased considerably in normal weather condi- taken in this direction. In conclusion, I should tions and over a short period-Iet us say next like to thank the Commissioner who has taken summer. It is only then that a problem arises. part for the first time. In itself the present butter stock does not He began by quoting a Dutch proverb, "he has constitute a great problem for the enlarged fallen with his nose in the butter." We hope, Mr Community. t26 Debates of the European Parliament

Lariünots

I also wish to point out-this in reply to some however, it is customary for one expert to view other speakers-that with regard to the butter the situation differrently trom another. Only in stock we fiad ourselves in a fundamentally retrospect can it be said who was right. I agree different situation from that of three years ago. with the view that industry, and in particular As it was, some three years ago we had in this the dairy industry, would do well td develop market a surplus of skimmed milk powder, that its efforts to sell its products by increasing its is the albumen part of the milk, as well as a publicity and also by counteracting the some- surplus of the fat content, the butter. times impudent and importunate publicity promoted by the margarine industry. This is not the case at present. As regards the albumen part of the milk, the situation is almost Miss Lulling has raised the question whether it normal. There is no surplus. There is only a would not be a good thing to devise another surplus situation for the fat content, the butter. system for the disposal of butter in particular. In addition, there is an important difference in It is indeed possible to suggest another system that four years ago beef prices were definitely and it might be possible to get it accepted by the not high and there was also no shortage of beef, Council, at least in part. A fundamental and whereas at the moment there is a combination meaningful reduction of the butter price might in the Community of a butter surplus and a be one possible way to achieve a considerably shortage of beef. In my judgement the beef greater consumption. Of course, the reduction shortage is not a short-term problem. Having in the price would have to be meaningful. Ttre regard to the consumption habits in the world, must not, however, lose sight of the fact that a this shortage may weII be of a more general reduction of the butter price by DMI per kilo- and lasting nature. There is, therefore, sufficient gram would cost the EAGGF DM 1,500,000 mil- reason to endeavour to switch the means of pro- lion. It will be appreciated that the Ministers of duction which are now applied to achieve milk Finance in particular will not be immediately production, towards meat production, so that in convinced of the necessity to do this. the structural sense, too, something would be On the other hand other programmes might done about this situation. It is indeed my view then be cancelled or they might cost less. But gener- that we shall have to try to do something in the ally speaking the end result would likeli- structural sense to prevent the formation of these h all part hood be more expensive. Perhaps this would be ever-recurring butter surpluses, i.e. the fat period of the milk. I suspect that some structural acceptable in a in which everybody is worried about inflation. This will undoubtedly factors in the consumption habits of lMest Euro- rliscussions peans are involved. do not wish to go into be the central theme in the due to I start this. It is not only a matter of the margarine here by the middle of March on the subject of agricultural prices the coming year. Per- industry, although it plays an important part in for haps it will to some extent be expressed in the this context. It is also the view of at least a proposals. However, I do not wish to anticipate section of medical opinion with regard to animal just fats which is involved here as well as the events. \Me have only made a start with a study of the situation regarding market changed living habits of many people. The arrangements and prices next year. only decreased butter consumption and the consid- for I can give the assurance that the sudden appearance erable increase of meat production over a relatively short period, not only within the of this butter surplus will decidedly not simplify the task Parliament and Council fixing Community, but in the whole Western world, on of in next year's prices. a global scale, create problems which are all the more exacerbated by the fact that the dairy Miss Lulling has stated tàat food aid is her season over the past six months was particularly priority. She has underlined that this should not favourable. only apply to butter, but to other dairy produce as well. I can only confirm this. I canaot, therefore, agree with Mr Martens when he says that we did too little for sales in 1971. I assume Baroness Elles was referring to the sale of ghee. She was asking how this could take lf we had persevered with certain programmes' place without it entering into competition with instead of discontinuing them, we would only' margarine. Ghee is widely used in the Middle have accentuated the existing shortage, which East. Normally it consists of other animal fats, certainly was not in the consumer's, nor in tJre but not of butter. producer's interest, at least over the longer term. Maybe we reacted a little late Iast year with If we turn the butter surplus into ghee, its some of our marketing programmes; it might rlisposal will, therefore, not be competitive with have been better to have started a few months the normal disposal of butter. It is, of course, earlier. I do not deny this. In situations like these, competitive with the other animal fats being Sitting of Thursday, 18 January l9?3 t27

Larilinois used for it, but the quality of these fats is such connection with the accession of Great Britain that they do not offer serious competition to to the Community. I must in all honesty say that margarine. one of the reasons why the negotiations in which I took part at the time did not yield the results Baroness Elles has also asked why there should now achieved was that they were carried on just be no price reduction. I have already dealt with at a time when there uras a shortage of butter that point. The expenditure for the Agricultural fats on the European market. Fund would be enormously high, unless we were to increase the price of other dairy produce This makes it easier to be optimistic about the significantly and to utilise the excess (in a round- future than was possible in a period like that about way) to reduce the butter price. This three or four years ago. We have however come happens to a certain extent in the British system to the known settlement and we intend to keep of the Milk Marketing Board which fixes a to it, even in respect cif the point that we must higher price for consumers, milk. The excess not dump large quantities of butter onto the price thus obtained compared with our system world market. Ttris applies not only to New is used as a pool to keep the butter price at a Zealand's market, but also to that of Australia low level. In my view this system has always and other countries, which will probably in worked to perfection in Britain. It was, however, future not be able to rely as much as hitherto very specifically geared to the characteristics on their traditional sales to Britain. I firmty and possibilities of the British market. These believe that the Community has a duty to behave possibilities do not exist in our case. Barring a with restraint in this respect. significant intervention with government finance .the we cannot think of anything of this nature. I do Mr Pounder asked precisely what level of not, however, reject the the system in advance. stocks is at present. Let me recall that in the f beüeve, nevertheless, that it can only function written question, I was asked under point 1: Can in a scheme in which all other aspects are the Commission give an estimate of the quantities considered. Other prices, too, will have to be of butter which were transferred at the end of considered and other possibilities, if any, 1972 to the Community contingency stocks? This examined. I hope that this may be done by the is something different from all the butter end of February or the beginning of March in which-except for what is in the contingency the meetings of the Committee on Agriculture stocks of the Community-is in normal trading and possibly also in other parliamentary com- stocks, including those in the new member mittees. We may be able to revert to this in the states. part-session to be held in March. I have answered the question as to how much I agree with Baroness Elles that against the contingency butter is at present held in the background of the whole situation on the meat Community, giving a figure of around market a'slaughter programme-such as we had 300,000 tons, even if I include stocks which are three years ago-is not the proper method to in private hands, but subject to guarantee of the tackle the butter problem. EAGGF of the Community. Ttris is therefore the quantity of butter for which we in the Measures to stimulate the use of consumers' Qesvnrrnify are responsible (both the Six and the milk are always an excellent thing. At present Nine), since in this respect the figure remains they are mainly taken on a national level. One the same, namely about 300,000 tons. This does country may in this respect be a little more not include the normal trading stocks held in active than another. I am not really in favour of Britain, Ireland and Denmark, where, at the end co-ordinating such activities-on the contrary. If of 1972, these stocks amounted to some 90,000 this is in fact done, it does not necessarily mean tons. that butter fats will r{isappear by way of the Mr President, Mr Pounder also asked whether consumers' milk. Consumers are more and more we cannot further subsidise the consumer, and inclined, instead of drinking milk of a normal Baroness Elles put the same question. think I fat content, to drink milk of a fat content only I have already answered this question. In my half that or even less. Skimmed cheese varieties, we must consider this matter very care- too, are becoming more and more popular. view fully and it might well turn out that prudent Given a constant level of milk consumption, the proposals can be worked out in this connection, problem of butter surpluses would therefore be which might have a better chance today of being very far from being settled. accepted than some three years ago, when the Commission advanced similar proposals, which I was very pleased to learn that Baroness Elles were ultimately not accepted by the Council. and Mr Pounder consider that an excellent agree- Looking at this event with hindsight, this was ment had been reached with New Zealand in perhaps the right decision.'We are however now L28 Debates of the European Parliament

Lardinoi,s dealing with different conditions in respect of a question of absorbing fresh butter which might butter. be sold in some other way. Otherwise my cost figures come out much higher. The supplemen- Mr Cifarelli also pointed out the neèd for proper tary sale of about 75,000 tons of butter in the supervision of the sale of this butter. I am very last six months involves cost of approximately happy to agree with him, but I would like to 100 million units of account. Let me also point point out that this supervision is in the hands out that the expenditure is primarily beneficial of national authorities. There is a sort of central- to the consumers in the Community. ized post-calculation carried out by the Com- munity services, but the real on-the-spot check- Mr Cipolla may weII have said that the expen- ing, i.e. in the warehouses,-must be (and for diture benefits the largest industry, but I empha- that matter is) carried out by the national size that every food industry can make appli- authorities responsible. cation for the controlled sale of butter surpluses. Frequently it is a question of priorities. It is on Everything depends on the manner in which the the national level that it is determined what distribution of the butter stocks is organized in mistakes made in commercial activities need the different Member States. I can only speak more particular detail supervision. from my experience as Minister of Agriculture irr my own country. I made sure that not only Mr Dewulf has suggested an investigation into large bakeries or large industries, but even the consumption of butter in large families, and an smallest baker was able to obtain butter at a. attempt to establish what quantities they could reduced price. consume if ihe price of butter were somewhat lower. This is an interesting proposal. I will make Had I not done so, then I would certainly nave enquiries as to whether such an investigation, had considerable problems in domestic politics. possibly in collaboration with certain offices can Although the supervision in the bakeries wa§ be organized. much more difficult, we succeeded by means of a combination of systems-i.e. by adding colo- I readily concur that rather more can-and rants to butter used as a raw material by bake- must-be done in the field of consumer research. ries-in supplying these small craft units in a In any case I am in principle sympathetic to manner which could still be supervised. In large Mr Dewulf's suggestion. units using 5 tons or more, physical supervision is stilI possible at the moment of mixing. You Mr Jakobsen emphasized the importance of sti- can send an inspector to each such unit. But mulating the consumption of other dairy pro- naturally enough this is not possible with the ducts. I think I have already answered this point. tens of thousands of small bakeries, which pro- possible change He stated definitely that any cess much smaller quantities. Tens of thousands in the present dairy system must not be at the of producing units can apply for quantities of expense of the producer, or in other words that butter every week. The allocations are not made the producer must not be made to suffer from it. by the Commission. They are made on the national level or possibly in cooperation with the Let me here add that, if we wish at a particular management committees. I do not have the moment to slow down production or no longer address, not even of the producing units which to errcourage it, or not allow it to increase any received more than 100 tons could have them our free system, \ilith its mil- I further then-in whether an lions producing units-frequently the only looked out. But I ask myself "in- of picture" has value, possibility is in what I will not call a price stantaneous of this kind any picture is quite different a reduction but rather a prudent handling of price since the whole couple months later. would like to know increases. of I more about it myself, and will have the matter Mr Cipolla has complained that I have not ans- looked into again. Once I have the relevant wered all his questions, and in this respect he is information, I will make it available to the right. I offer him my apologies. I have now Committee on Agriculture. reread some points and will attempt to give a have now broadly answered the ques- supplementary answer. I think I tions which were put to 'me. Thaak you for The cost figures for the butter programmes as your kind attention to my remarks. they stand at present come to between one and (Applause) one-and-a-half units of account per kilogram of butter. President. Does Erny one else wish to speak ? My starting-point here is that the butter can be - sold on a pure§ additive basis, i.e. that it is not The debate on Oral Question 26172 is closed. Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 Lzg

8. Resoluti.on on the conlmùon organizati,on production and marketing conditions were not of the nùarket tn sugar comparable with those of the Community countries, and where the price-levels'were Iow, and Prosident. The next item on the agenda is the markets of the countries where the pro- vote without- debate, on the resolution in the duction and marketing conditions wdre compar- report drawn up on behalf of the Committee able with those obtaining in the CommunitSr, on Agriculture by Mr Klinker on the proposal and where the price-levels were accordingly from the Commissi,on of the European Com- similar to those in the markets of the Commun- munities to the Council for a regulation amen- ity. This fact is of extreme importance for the ding Regulation 1009/6718;EC on the common purpose of fixing the levies which necessarily organization of the market in sugar (Doc. 265/ come into effect as soon as the import price falls 72). below the governing price. There are no speakers listed. Out of this second group of countries whose market-prices could be considered comparable Does any one wish to speak ? with those of the Comrnunit5r, three have become And the I put the motion to the vote. members of the Community itself. since Community is a single entity, these countries The resolution is agreed to.1 can today no longer be called a group. In addition, this would bring into being a discrimination harmful to countries like Austria, Finland, 9. Regulati,on on i,mport aîrangernents tor beeJ Sweden and Switzerland, which have a produc- and ueal tion and marketing structure comparable to that of the Community. The injustice would arise out President. The next item on the agenda is of penalizing these countries by the imposition the discussion- of the report drawn up on behalf of levies that would come to be calculqted on of the Committee on Agriculture by Mr Vetrone data related to other countries where different, on the proposal from the ,Commission of the lower market are in effect. European Council a Communities to the for Hence the necessity for inserting this second Regulation (EEC) 805/68 regulation amending paragraph in Article 10, which fixes a specific with respect to arrangements for imports of beef price for imports, and especially for those from (Doc. 241172). and veal these countries whose interests it is particularly I call Mr Vetrone to present his report. wished to protect. Clearly, there are dangers arising out of deflections of trade, and the proposed resolution recommends the Commission to Mr Vetrone, rapporteur. (I) Ttre official be watchful in seeing that imports benefiting record of the conference at which the three from this specific import price really do consist countries became members of the Community of products originating in the countries v/here carries a report on the intention to revise Art- the production and marketing structure is com- icle 10 of the regulations for beef over an interim parable to those existing in the Community. period, in accordance with the rules prescribed for this procedure. The proposal which relates So this, Mr President and fellow-members, is the to this statement contained in the record of the substance of the proposed regulation on which conference which finalized the new member- the Commission has invited us to give our views. ships, has the particular effect not of amending On behalf of the Committee on Agriculture, I Article 10 of the basic regulations of the Com- recommend that it be approved. munity, but only of adding one paragraph to it. Article 10 of the basic regulations lays down that President. Does any one else wish to speak ? the price fixed for imports must be increased - by a customs surcharge in the event that any I put the motion to the vote. such import price should be lower than the Ttre resolution is agreed to.z governing price fixed by the Community. In point of fact, in order to be able to establish this import price, the Community took the price- 10. Regulati,on on the Convmuni,tg tari.ff quota !o,r Ievels of the most representative markets of the trozen beef anil ueal third countries as its point of reference. These markets, however, can be divided into two Presidenl The next item on the agenda is groups : the markets of the countries where the discussion of- the report drawn up on behalf of

OJ No Clt of 14 Februarÿ 1973. s OJ No el of 14 February lYl3. 130 Debates of the European Parliament

Presldent the Committee on Agriculture by Mr Vetrone President. Does €myone else wish to speak? on the proposal from the Commission of the - I put the motion to the vote. European Communities to the Council for a regulation on the introduction and allocation of The resolution is agreed to.1 and,arrangements for managing, the Community tariff quota for frozen beef and veal under sub- heading 02.01 A II (a) of the common customs 1.1. Regutatton on a system of premiums tor beef tariff (1973) (Doc. 242172). and aeal prod'ucti'on

I call Mr Vetrone to present his report. Prosident The next item on the agenda is discussion of- the report drawn up on behalf of Mr Vetrone, rapporteur, (I). Mr President, the Committee on Agriculture by Mr Vetrone Ladies and Gentlemen, the proposal- from the on the amended proposal from the Commission Commission of the European Communities con- of the European Communities to the Council cerns the administration of a tariff quota, im- (Doc. 183/72) for a regulation introducing, a sys- plying by the term administration the opening tem of premiums as an incentive for increasing of this tariff quota of frozen meat and its allo- beef and veal production and premiums for cation among the Member States. As part of the' switching over dairy herds to beef production international agreements under GATT, the Com- @oc. 244172). munity has entered into a commitment to open call Mr Vetrone to present his report. a tariff quota of 22,000 tons of frozen meat per I year at 20 per cent customs duty. On 8 November rapporteur. (D Mr President, a 1971, the Community signed an agreement with Mr Vetrone, - the Argentine to the effect that the tariff quota Iong list of speakers was to be expected, for I has been set as 22 thousand tons of frozen meat, believe that the main item at the moment is not but that the Community reserves the right to so much the problem of surpluses (though that allow additional quotas in the light of its needs. has required a debate of three hours), but The draft regulation aims at giving a truly Com- precisely that which forms the subject of this munity nature to this tariff quota, so that the report. I feel sorry for the Commissioner, Mr Lar- ,attach Community will propose a mechanism for the dinois, for if you want to importance you allocation of the quota, according to which 90 to this problem as I believe do he will have per cent of the quota will be shared out âmong to reckon with a longer speech than that which the Member States. I must point out that ref- kept him occupied with the problem of the erence in this case is made to six states, not nine, butter surplus. because there is a provision for the'Community Mr President, Ladies and GenUemen, it is known entitlement to open additional quotas if it proves that the present scarcity of beef within the necessary in the future for the other states. Community must no\M be considered as having character. In 1970 and 1971 the has been made on a structural The initial allocation, which Community remained at frozen meat by the shortfall within the the basis of the imports of on the basis of the the past three years (the period some 520,000 tons, whereas six states 'over have been made for 1972 this statistics available), is only of estimates that for which are shortfall shows an iacrease from 550'000 to 20,000 tons, the remaining 2,000 tons being a 650,000 tons, with a further negative effect on reserve upon which the six states can draw once Community's rate of self-sufficiency, which they show that they have exhausted 90 per cent the in 1971 came out at 89.4 per cent. of their first allocation. The entry of the three countries now joining I do not intend to dwell on the other mechanisms does not substantially alter the situation. Mean- because they are purely technical and of no while, the levels of consumption show a steady importance to a political assembly such as this. increase, and moreover it should be pointed out In consequence, Mr President, I propose that the that these levels of consumption are rising not House approves this proposal for a regulation only as regards quantity but as regards quality which-I repeat-concerns only the procedures too. as result of the increase for applying an agreement reached by the Com- Quantitively, a of 1,720,000 units in the population the Com- munity under GATT, which requires procedures of munity from 1969 to 1970. on the for allocation of the quota and for its adminis- Qualitatively, other hand, as result the rapid increase tration; the aim, however, is to make this allo- a of in monetary incomes, which aggravates the cation different from what it has been in the situation a considerable degree. The fact is past-in other words, it should be of a truly to Community nature.

(A'pplause) l OJ No Oî of 14 Februarr, 1973. Sitting of Thursday, 18 Jeinuary 1973 131

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that these higher incomes give rise to a strong other countries throughout the world. I do not demand for veal, and are pushing up the price know of any countries which do not have this of veal to levels that are having a discouragiag problem, and perhaps Mr Lardinois can tell you effect on any positive attempts at further this. It may be that Australia is an exception, fatteniag for the production of beef, since the but I believe that all the others are obliged at latter does not ensure levels of monetary return this moment to face the same facts, namely equal to those which are obtaina'ble from veal. that the recourse to imports which we are putting into effect by taking exceptional steps, Furthermore, as we learn from reading the facts does not seem calculated to solve the basic prob- contained in a financial analysis of agriculture lem. The scarcity of beef and the high price in the EEC recently published by the Commis- levels constitute a problem for North America sion-and I am gratified by the publication of a and for the Latin American countries; the same document of this nature for the first tim+the applies to the state-trading countries of the production of beef-cattle gives an average return Eastern bloc, who are major suppliers of the on labour equal to 1,900 units of account for Community but who have also almost all become each unit of labour, that is to say only 5 units importers of frozen meat. This all contributes of account per day. This return takes last place to enhanced prices for this product, the price in the scale of values, as compared with the of which has doubled on the Latin American returns on all other production; that is to say, market within a period of only 18 months. according to the accounting data compiled, after Imports are therefore particularly costly, and the returns offered by sown crops, by pig or have already shown price increases of 34.1 per poultry rearing, and by permanent cultivation. cent for fullgrown cattle, and 32.1 per cent for calves over the period 1968-1972. The same order of things emerges in respect of the gross receipts. The highly significant nega- What have been the first results of the facilities tive effects of such an unsatisfactory state of accorded to the entry of imports ? We do not affairs, which has come about in spite of the know, since the Commission has not until now policy of incentives pursued by the Community made the repercussions known, and perhaps is confirmed by the indications given in the Com- not yet in a position to do this. From the evi- mission's most recent publication-the report dence provided by the press on several occa- fot 1972 on the agricultural situation. We learn sions regarding the situation which has estab- from this that the cattle population of the Com- lished itself following the application of such munity has been falling steadily since 1968, to measures, it should be presumed that no con- the point that the figures show a total contrac- traction in the prices within the Community- tion of 3.50/o in the Community's cattle herds at least duriag the initial period-has been from 1968 to 1971. found to have taken place. Only at a later stage, and then only irt the case of the Dutch marhet, The prices, as could be foreseen, have meanwhile does there seem to have been any appreciable been pushed uptù/ards particularly sharply price reduction recorded. But in any event these during the first half of 1972, the increases measures are not suitable ones for solving our reaching 13.80/o for fullgrown beef cattle and problem. They could even be a danger in them- 9.90/o for calves, compared with 1968 to 1971. selves, as seems to be what is already occurriag, Faced with this disquieting tendency, character- in view of the fact that France has iasistently ized by a continual fall in supplies and a requested-and this Parliament has expressed its continual gnowth in demand, with resulting support-continuous support which should only increases in prices, accompanied moreover by a have a psychological effect in that country. process of inflation that now seems irreversible in all the Community countries, recourse has \Mhat is now emerging is in fact the reaction been had to imports, of both beef and veal, and coming from the breeders, who when facing acoompanied by exceptional measures that have these assisted imports do not feel themselves at times nullified the rates of the customs tariffs. encouraged to take any new steps (and this too That has occurred, for example, in the case of is a psychological factor), but more discouraged veal imports, and it is not impossible that than otherwise. measures of this type may be extended in view of this serious situation. Mr President, Ladies and Gentlemen, the principal evidence recorded, which the Commission The truth is that we do not know whether these itself has given us as a justification for its new steps will pr'ove to be a complete overall correc- proposal regarding a system of premiums for the tive, as only experience will tell us this. But promotion of beef production, makes us suddenly the beef crisis is not a phenomenon which only reflect how our Committee on Agriculture has affects the Community. Unfortunately, this short- brought about the situation that the policy of age is a factor which also concerns almost all giving incentives to this sector which has been in L32 Debates of the European Parüament

Vetrone operation till now, has not achieved the expected Presidenl Mr Vetrone, I must point out to results. On the contrary, the quantities of beef you that your- speaking time is up. available have recently fallen.

Now without wishing to indulge in tendentious Mr Vetrone (I) I have said that it was my polemics-believe me, Mr Lardinoir-but in- intention to curtail- the first reports in order to spired solely by a proper sense of responsibility allow myself more time for this subject. But if and cooperation in facing so serious a situation, you impose a time-limit on me, I will respect we ask ourselves and we ask the Commission this by coming rapidly to my conclusions. if it is possible to be convinced of the soundness of Regulation 1972 of 1969, which fixed a system There is no doubt that the ohjective would have of non-marketing subsidies for milk and dairy been reached if the problem of beef production products and which had in view-as is stated in had been looked at not only as one conflicting the Commission's official document-the double with the production of milk (as has been the case objective of getting rid of the milk surpluses till now), but also from a more general, global accumulated at that time, and also more parti- point of view, which would have related beef cularly switching over dairy herds to beef production to all the other production sectors. production. We ask if it is possible to be con- And today vÿe can reach this objective by means vinced that this regulation has effectively ful- of the guidelines which have been evolved fol- filled such objectives. lowing the application of a common structural policy. You are convinced of this, Mr Larr{inois, In the judgment of the Commission, expressed on because when speaking of the surpluses you 22 July 1971, the first of these objectives is said wanted to emphasize that these are also a struc- to have been achieved, whereas the second-says tural problem. The question which naturally the Commission-appeared to have been only arises is this: whether it is necessary today to partially achieved. WeIl now, if no one can deny continue to operate with this old policy, or that there has been a reduction in the substantial whether instead there may not be a case for surpluses of milk products, it nevertheless paying greater attention to beef rather than to remains doubtful to what extent this reduction the problems of milk. I believe it was in fact you has taken place as a consequence of this non- who said that today beef is a factor of greater marketing subsidy, since it could instead be the importance than the production of milk, and I result of the big financial effort which the welcome this because I consider that this is the Community has had to make in selling off these real position. surpluses at a loss. The Committee on Agriculture has now debated The doubts are further strengthened by the state- this complex subject at length. The basis has ment which you have made, Mr Lardinois. You been the proposals made by the Commission have told us that today these surpluses, at least regarding premiums payable for the slaughter as regards their volume, are the same as they of heifers after their first calf, premiums payable were yesterday (300,000 tons). But if the same for calves born alive or dead (without any Committee, in order to e:çlain how it has not distinction), which result from crossing with a been possible even partially to attain the second bull able to ensure meat-producing progenÿ, and objectiv+-that is to say the switching-over of finally a higher subsidy for the non-marketing dairy herds to beef production-informs us that of milk, the factor which represents the hea- the recipients of these premiums have given up viest financial charge on the resources of the in the face of the financial difficulties created European Agricultural Guidance and Guarantee by moving over from dairy farming to intensive Fund. Nevertheless, though it has completed this beef production, well then, Mr Lardinois, we can task, the Committee on Agriculture has not been conclude that in effect no progress has been able to go equally far in its views on the pro- made, even parti,al, towards reaching this second posals, in the sense that it has not felt able to objective. It would, however, be interesting to express a favourable opinion; it has wished consider what the effect would have been of merely to emphasize its determination to find a suspending this non-marketing subsidy for milk. solution to these problems, but has not shown Why in fact should this subsidy not be considered enthusiasm for the proposals as such. Taken as a as a vaüd factor in the formation of the surplus? whole, these do not contain the indispensable You have said that new surpluses of butter have ingredients for the type of policy required by the suddenly come into being. But it is also true that present serious situation; namely, a global policy the Parliament 1ras not been officially apprised which relates this sector to others and which is of these, and at a certain point the Commission coherent; one, that is to say, which does not has suspended the non-marketing subsidy for disregard the issue of assisted imports, or factors milk. related to these lmports or to prices. Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 19ZB 133

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Only in this way can a solution to this problem that the returns derived from beef production be reached. have fallen so low as to take the bottom place in the scale of the returnsi earned within the As we ltalians have again been obliged to point Community, and whether there is not a case for out today, v/e are witnessing the emergence of a thinking of giving an incentive for the develop- surplus of milk and butter at a time when there ment of zootechnics. Consideration can be given is a shortage of these in one of the countries of to the possibility of applying the provisions of the Community. Furthermore, beef supplies are Article 10 over a wider field than that which its source a of equal anxiety in all the countries terms prescribe; that is to say, without a develop- of the Community. So when there is talk of the ment plan being a requisite. Article 10, on a basis necessity to renew and encourage these supplies of the ürectives given, applies fundamentally to by increasing the actual incentives, like the non- development plans: but today, colleagues, if I marketing subsidy for milk, a citizen of the may use the phrase, the house is on fire, and il Community asks himself how it is possible, if it this is an effective procedure we can use excep- is true that the overall shortage of beef in the tional means to apply it, at this time, over and Community stems from Italy because the largest above the cases which it was designed to cover. consumption of it is in ltaly, to invite the Italians to withhold their milk from the market at a time Mr President, colleagues, I would have liked to when there is a shortage of dairy products in report to you msls frrlly and under less pressure, Italy. but the time at my rlisposal is only 15 minutes, even if the problem of meat, which yesterday It is in fact absolutely out of the question that was costing 2,000 lire a kilo, today costs 4,000, this procedure be put into effect. and within a year will perhaps cost 7,000 or 8,000 kilo, would have merited more Italy, moreover, is the country which has the lire a detailed examination. Our rules, however, impose greatest need for beef. It is a country of hills and a time-limit of 15 minutes in all circumstances. mountains. How is it therefore possible to be so I am glad that the Committee on Agriculture, ignorant of the problems of beef production as whose proposed resolution expresses doubt about not to think of the idea of regionalization? Is it the efficacy of the proposals put forward, Dâÿ possible, for example, to accept the fact that have contributed to avoiding a postponement of even what is in itself a most effective measure, the structural solution to the problem. Mr Lar- namely Article 10 of the directive, according to dinois has declared his readiness to collaborate, the proposals is only applicable over a maximum and has provided some suggestions which are in- of 100 hectares? One hundred hectares will do corporated in the proposed resolution, and in the well enough for the plains, but what is that in report which have had the honour of drawing hilly or mountainous country? I up. The Commission must put this question to itself, We hope that the Commission and the Council and similar arguments have in fact been put for- of Ministers will be able to take a decision, even ward in the meetings of the Committee on Agri- if they have not until now succeeded in reaching culture. I wish to associate myself with those agreement, agreement has not yet been colleagues who have put forward amendments as reached by the experts. intended to ensure that the proposed resolution comes nearer to e>rpressing their thoughts on this This shows the complexity of the problem. We point. Basically, the Committee on Agriculture are av/are of this, and we therefore hope that the has not confined itself to expressing some per- new executive will be receptive to the views of plexity, but has also put forward some new the Parliament's Committee on Agriculture; re- conceptions and ideas; nevertheless, we are not ceptive, and disposed to study this problem in experts, and for this reason we ask that it shoulcl detail, in a spirit of full cooperation. I would like be the experts who study the matter in full to say that it would perhaps be preferable-to detail. use an expression already employed-"to fall with our noses in the butter", rather than to Among other things, the problem the guide of find ourselves facing a problem as serious as price has come up, following remark by a that of beef production. The butter problem could Mr Richarts, who asked there if was not a case be solved with a financial effort, whereas the for relating this the costs production. to of problem of beef has many differen! facets, in- Mr Liogier has observed that this is not mo- the cluding psychological ones. And when these ment for establishing a link between produc- the enter into the picture, the involvement is a tion of beef and production of cereals. Mr Beylot major one. and all our other French colleagues have likewise asked whether the situation does not call for the I trust that in the future the new Commission provision of assisted loans, in view of the fact r,r'ill feel able to give favourable consideration Debates of the European Parliament

Vetrone to these ideas and suggestions formulated by the Allow me, therefore, to make a few critical Committee on Agriculture at the outset of a task comments on the proposal from a financial point which it is to be hoped will have genuinely of view. Mr. Lardinois, the target is plain; milk fruitful results for agriculture within the Com- production is too high and beef production too munity. And this is our greeting to the new low. Thousands of millions are put into the Commission, to which we intend to give our full vr'rong production. On the other hand, thousands cooperation. It is above all to you that we turn, of millions have to be spent in order to market Mr Lardiaois, who among other things have been this surplus production. In principle, therefore, a stalwart pillar for agricùlture in your own it is right to provide an incentive to production country, and also, in your capacity as Minister in places where a bottle-neck exists, and to seek cf the Netherlands in the Council of Ministers to erect barriers where there is over-production. of the Community, a stalwart champion of agri- Already at this point the first criticism must be culture in the Community. made, a note which rà/as also sounded in the (Applause) remarks of Mr Vetrone. In my opinion the Commission always reacts only when the failure or mis-development of a certain production has become apparent. Then the reaction is mostly too IN TIIE CHAIR: MR BEHRENDT late, and often too hesitant. A long-term in- production calls for a clear concep- Presid,ent fluence on tion. For years vre have been demanding a better price relationship between beef and milk and President. I call Mr Aigner who is deputizing between other farming products. Changes in for Mr Reischl,- the draftsman for the opinion milk and meat production demand, in the first of the Committee for Finance and Budgets. p1ace, the support of breeding measures. A long- term programme is therefore needed, a demand Mr Aigner, deputy draftsman for the opinion. frequently made in this House. To be able to (D) Mr President, Ladies and Gentlemen, I am- work at all towards a definite target the produc- deputizing for the draftsman for the opinion tion structure must be clearly visible, and there Mr Reischl. He has asked me to present the views must be a minimum knowledge of other methods judgment of the Committee for Finance and Budgets, since of production. fn our the Commission he had to return to Bonn for reasons of which Iacks even one most elementary item of inform- you are aware. ation-a self-recording system of European statistics, with the necessary criteria of judgment Mr President, the committee has examined the to facilitate intervention in so many different regulation with particular reference to its res- processes and such a variety of regions. ponsibility for finance and budgets. This examination could not ignore the important question The inevitable result is uncertainly and conse- of the probable effectiveness of the regulation, quently inadequate proposals in most cases. or rather of the relationship between expenditure and income. The regulation represents a common measure in the sense of Article 6, (1) of The Committee for Finance and Budgets shares EEC Regulation No 729 of the Council of the view of the Committee on Agriculture that 21 April 1970. According to the Commission's the financial iacentives in the draft regulation estimates, expenditure for the period up to are too weak for changes in the production, and 31 March 1974 amounts to 165 milIion units of too dear for the existing beef production. We account, that is 50 per cent of total expenditure. therefore share the scepticism of the experts and Any extension to 31 March 1975 would require regard the estimated costs as rather too indefi- further provision of the same amount. nite. In my opinion it is certain to be a dearly bought experience, similar to that of the slaught- Mr President, allow me to interpose a comment ering subsidy. Despite these doubts the Com- here. If a proposal for a regulation involving an mittee for Finance and Budgets approves the expenditure of 1,000 million DM were discussed regulation, in the expectation that the Com- in the capitals of our Member States, the discus- mission wiII shortly submit an overall plan for sion would certainly continue for months in the beef production. In addition to the statistical responsible quarters-the Bundestag, the Italian side, measures affecting price, structure, trade Chamber, the French National Assembly. Here, policy and breeding must be developed and however, the matter is disposed of in a few min- coordinated. Only in this v/ay can, in the long utes according to the formula "Eat this, or die", run, a balance be established between market and not even the public is aware that in making and production in this important field of agri- one regulation the Commission is demanding culture. OnIy in this way, Mr Lardinois, are one thousand million. funds of this magnitude justified. Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 135 al8aer

We ask, therefore, for approval of this motion. ments-my new friends will be surprised,at the To you, Mr Lardinois, I wish every success in volume that reaches their desks; I hope they are your task. You have inherited no sinecure, hav- adept at sorting papers; we have learned to be ing regard to the lack of action in recent years. in the many years we have been here-it will be found that the statistics are in fact more President. I call Mr Richarts, to speak the complete than one would expect. - for Christian Democratic group. So far Parliament has omitted to discuss the report on the agricultural situation. The report Mr Richarts (D) Mr President, on behalf of contains some extremely interesting inf ormation. my Group I should- like first to thank our rapporteur, who has presented his report with a certain Last year's report shows, and this year's con- amount of passion. It is a difficult report, pre- firms, that in the old Community alone 5.3 mil- pared with much diligence but without great lion cows are in the sheds of farms which are enthusiasm. without a successor. They have, of course, an heir; there is no difficulty about giving away a A survey of the supply position in the Commun- fortune. What it means is that one day produc- ity, even the enlarged Community, discloses tion will be these 5.3 millions cows short. more surpluses than deficits. In certain fields we have reached, and even exceeded, the stage Mr President, the question is this: Are we to of self-sufficiency. In some sectional areas there reintroduce the slaughtering subsidy, which I is a definite under-supply. It must sometimes do not condemn, or should we perhaps in this rejoice the heart even of a farmer politician to case adopt a different method in a field which find that this sort of thing still exists. As politi- is more social than agricultural? Woutd it not cians we know only too well about the connec- be better to give those with such farms a subsidy tion between exports and imports, between pur- for not supplying milk? chasing power and prices for our farm products. Mr Lardinois, You said just now that the disposal trV'e are certainly not seeking self-sufficiency, but of 75,000 tons of butter had cost between 1 and on the other hand v/e are politically committed 1.5 units of account per kilo. Would it not be to both the producers of farm products based on simpler and perhaps cheaper to place oneself, the Treaty of Rome and consumers. to the not at the end of, or on top of, the mountain of Here we have a product which is virtually a butter, but at the milking-tap and turn off the text-book example of this: beef. 40 per cent of tap at this juncture? I intend no criticism. f all producers in the Community provide it, and have every confidence in our friend, Mr Lardi- at the same time very often also a product whose nois-I use the term "friend" not rhetorically, development sometimes fills us with a certain but from honest conviction-I know that you are alarm-milk. It happens to be a characteristic of assuming no easy task. But this is a suggestion. the cow to provide milk, but without cows there Would it not be possible to consider whether are no calves, irrespective of the particular part of the milk production could not be dis- ideology, and without calves there is no meat. pensed with by adopting social measures, without You have to know this! prejudice to meat production? 'WeIl then, -40olo of the farmers in the Commun- \Me owe it to the consumer to ensure that the ity produce meat and milk, one being more Community is adequately supplied with meat. addicted to the former, and another to the latter. For climatic reasons many are condemned to I also concur with the criticism of those who produce milk and meat, or meat and milk, believe that the measures-I will not go into irrespective of the market situation, because the them in detail now-are inadequate. But I can- direction of production is determined by nature. not leave it to the experts to decide whether This applies particularly to the newly joined such measures are right or \Àrrong. In the last member countries. The northerly regions are resort they are political decisions-political forced to produce milk and meat, just as the decisions for the man in agriculture and not southerly areas cannot escape producing fruit, poütical decisions against one another. May I vegetables and wine. I do not think there is remind you that in the big debate on the any danger of a switch of production from north Mansholt Report, and in the resolution, we used to south, or vice versa. the formula that all agrarian considerations must centre round man and his destiny. That is ü/hat about the structural aspect of the situation. the immediate problem. And I know, Mr Lardi- In the meat sector, the production structure is, nois, that you are committed and will remain quite candidly, pathetic: produce too many farms committed to these people. too little. Turning for a moment to the analysis, Mr Aigner, have just given us the sta- Ladies and Gentlemen, if v/e are to stimulate -ÿou,tistics-and reading the abundance of docu- meat production, the mea§rures we adopt must be 136 Debates of the European Parüament

Rioharts credible. Tariff reductions on the one hand this political will exists more strongly in the and price incentives on the other happen to be enlarged Community. If the political will to two measures which share no common denomi- solve exists, a way will be found. nator. If you want to raise meat production, you must place the farms in a position to do so, and In the past agricultural policy has been the guarantee them, by way of a guide price, a price dynamo of the Community. The farmers of the which enables them to repay the necessary Community can never be accused-we should investment and at the same time-as is their have to reject the suggestion with passion-of perfect right-to make some profit. putting on the brakes. Where else has such a process of integration been achieved, as we have I will not go into the details of the measures. In achieved it, even at the experse of the farmers? principle I support them. I favour any measure The farmers have accepted sacrifices for the which can give an active incentive to beef sake of the greater good. production, in particular if at the same time it corrects the milk/meat balance in favour of Mr Lardinois, my dear friends, who will conti' meat. At the same time the basis of the farms nue to sit in this House, please ensure that this must be borne in mind. spirit persists, to the end that our farm policÿ, hitherto the dynamo, does not become the dyna- I mentioned just now a figure of 5.3 million cows. mite of the Community. I have this confidence Mr Lardinois, the same Commission report irt you, my dear friends and Mr Lsrrlinefs, sllsv/ shows that in the old Community 14.3 hectares me to use this term once again. You come of land are owned by farms which are being perhaps from the farmyard, you may have phased out. these 5.3 million cows and 14 million stuüed agriculture, you were perhaps an em- hectares would, in my opinion, represent an bassy attaché in Great Britain, or a delegate operational asset or a useful area in process of in your national Parliament, or a member of being phased out which is larger than the total the Committee on Agriculture, and you were cultivated area of the Federal Republic. I feel a good friend and a comrade. We did not always that, in deciding its policy, the Commission did agree on methods, but certainly on the goal. not brief itself sufficiently weII on these two You come now, equipped with experience as a points. minister and experience in the Council of Ministers, and ascend the agricultural bridge of Concerning the meat sector, may I add that beef the enlarged Community. On this bridge I wish produced is usually on larger-scale farms. This you lasting good health, steady nerves and a firm necessitates a fairly large surface area. T?re hand as steersmen of the European farm policy, majority of farms are too small; we must enable for the benefit of farmers in the enlarged them financially to take up and stock part of Community and the benefit of the consumers. those 14 million hectares. The logic of the situa- (Applause) tion, however, is that keeping cattle also means having a shed. Hitherto sheds have been too small; therefore, producers need capital, at a President. I call Lord St. Oswald to speak Iow interest rate, to enlarge the sheds. On the for the Conservative- Group. other hand, they need a guide price as well, in order to have the certainty that the capital investment is sound. Lord Sü Oswald. (E) My first and valued opportunity of addressing- this Parliament is None of us is able to recommend a patent recipe provided by these relatively technical and when introducing a measiure. That is impossible. apparently narrow proposals so comprehensively In my opinion you need measures which allow reported on in Parliament by Mr Vetrone. Their for regional differences, aimed mainly at the purpose and application are wide and enter into upland and pasture-land areas of the Commun- every home and on to every table in the Com- ity. With the courage to differentiate we know munity. Even if this were not so, I would find it, that difficulties arise in the marginal areas. Our myself, impossible on this first occasion to utter task as politicians is to overcome such difficulties. no personal word of what I feel as to the whole You will no doubt take up this question anew significance of these days, and the welcome in the discussion on farm prices. If the solution which we three new member States were given had been easy, I should have thought that even on Tuesday morning and in the days that have the Council of Ministers, to whom you, Mr Lardi- followed. Now, as definitive Europeans, ure nev/ nois, have listened long enough, was capable of arrivals must be aware, together with those solving the problem itself. I would ask only one whom we join, that this is no more than a long thing: Do not listen only to the technical experts, and splendid stride along the main highway of listen to the politicians as weII, who have the European unity. ViIe canaot stand around con- political will to solve it. My impression is that gratulating each other. Mr Ortoli himself, at the Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 19?3 13?

Loril §t. Oswalal highest level, in his closing words spoke of .his Some will be misconceived, and many will be passionate belief in the future of this Community. made with a lack of imagination or understanding of what is wise or feasible vrithin tJle Com- Hoping you will have forgiven these somewhat munity, of what is consonant urith tJle greatest diversionary remarks, I shall move closer to the good, the greatest good now insluding the British subject. Islanders ? The President of the Council of Min- isters spoke of an enlightened but firm defence In the field of agriculture, vrithin which my long- of vital national interests as being totally respect- standing and close friend, Mr Scott-Hopkins' able. We must fix our criteria of enlightenment. and I have now become close colleagues of Mr Vetrone and other members of the Committee on For what we see as this corlmon good, and with Agriculture, Britain is happily endowed by an eye on national interest, we in the Con- nature, and the people of our islands have, servative Group, so early in our initiation, have broadly speaking, put that endowment to wise gc,ne to the extent of presenting an amendment, and productive account. A high proportion of our It falls to me not to describe the amendment at land consists of strong moisture-retaining soil this stage but to outline what we see as a failure for growing arable corps, including grass and on the part of the Community so far: a lack of animal feeding stuffs which play their part in action to avoid the crisis in beef which these the production of beef. We have a climate which measures now seek partly to assuage, late in the is, some say, rather more comfortable for crops day, after the crisis point has been reached, than for human beings. Our farm structure is affecting one area of Europe most painfully and not perfect but it compares favourably in econo- disturbingly. in most of \Mestern mic terms with the structure The first aspect of failure, in which the then technologically advanced, and Europe. IMe are' Community's British neighbours bear a degree great capital has been invested in a deal of of parallel blame, has been the lack of foresight of it wiselY. industry, almost all in measuring and meeting the coming dramatic a scar- Added up, this means that we cannot come to scarcity of beef in the world as a whole, this Parliament with any general hard luck city which could have been counterbalanced to vigorous increase in domestic story as to our agricultural lot. As a consequence some extent by a of this, at home in the British Isles we have production. Two and a half years ago the magnif- one consider a come to expect a great deal of our farming icent Dr. Mansho1t, whom I for industry, to demand high standards and low giant among men and among Europeans, came was the proud prices. I should say that I speak also as a farmer to a seminar in London of which I unbroken hours he and so am fairly poignantly aware of this factor. organiser. During eight dominated that gathering of the leaders of the All those present will be arvare of the cheap British food industries. I shall repeat only one food policies which successive British Govern- observation from all the wisdom he provided as ments have maintained and which are being Commissioner for Agriculture at that time' He largely, understandably, forfeited as part of our said: "There is room for an increase in beef undertakings in joining the Common Market. I production. I see that at this moment vre are up suppose I could be told, gently or even sharply, to 88 or 89 per cent consumption of our produc- ourselves tion, and \ re are already sure we are coming that publie relations is a matter for 'We in our own area. I do not think that riposte will to 99 or 100 per cent consumption". know be made, because all of us, from whatever area, today that the 100 per cent figure has been are acutely conscious of the high demands made passed and the crisis is with us. The passion with on them by their countrymen, in one field or which the supposedly phlegmatic British are another where national interests are repeatedly now attacking their Government in this matter and inevitably affected. has to be heard to be believed. 'What we have to do, and f am sure that those The crisis has been blamed, of coutse, in some with longer experience will tell us so, is to weigh quarters, upon our joining the Common Market, and measure and categorise these demands as upon the impatience, if you please, by the author- they come to us according to the importance or ities to reach the Community price levels as occasional selfishness which underlies them. quickly as possible, without waiting for the transitional period to elapse. It has been blamed the Commission in a truly The President of on the greed of the farmers, the greed of the historic address quoted Montesquieu to this butchers, even on the freeze. The effective calule' effect. well known to all of us here, is outside all this: My words contain no poetry but they are uttered it is a world shortage of beef, due to potent in the knowledge that some of the demands made world factors. I wiII not now catalogue those upon us will be reasonable and some exorbitant. factors, in order to save time. 138 Debates of the European Parliament

Lord §t. Oswald

None of these could have been prevented by what he meant. It could be less kindly classed European action but they could have been at as a fetish, though sensible enough as fetishes least partly offset. The British farmers, slowly go, tied as it is to a nation's habits of diet and and tardily enough-and I am one of them- the protein content of beef on which its people began producing more beef cattle three years ago, go to work. and this increased steeply a year ago. The agricultural census in June revealed this. Compared Now we are no longer neighbours but partners with June of 1971, the total cattle breeding herd and from now on we face together tÉe oppor- was up by 121,00-that is, 6 per cent-the tunities and problems. Paying needlessly high beef herd itself growing by 46,000, or 6.6 per prices for beef is against the interests of us cent. The number of heifers-in-caU rose by all. The solution now is not to complain about 73,000, or 12 per cent, but vrithin this, beef heifers marches stolen in the past but to expand our accounted for 52 per cent-that is, 47,000-and own production of this commodity within the that is all in the right direction. Community. Dr Mansholt, in my hearing, is on record as saying that Britain has a large In the meantime-this could appear to be part to play in this, and I believe that is so. a somewhat insular view-the common crisis That is why the present proposals are of interest has fallen more severely on Britain, or so vre to us. believe, than upon others, for two reasons which have to be taken into vivid account by British The background is that no one has achieved producing politicians. The first was the action of the striking successes in wanted beef Community of the Six suddenly to cut by half without at the same time producing large quan- the beef tariff to third countries. This meant tities of unwanted milk. Our system and some of techniques that the customers in the Community became our have, we believe,. been more a dramatically more attractive market than successful than most. Britain. Accustomed as citizens of the Six were The proposals tabled here from the Commission to paying high prices for food, once the tariJf are numbered 1 to 5, and for convenience of was cut, supplies for Britain were diverted to describing the attitude of my political Group I the Continent with a suddenness for which we will take them in reverse order, the last four were not prepared. very briefly. The fifth title affects the importa- tion of calves, and it can only serve to ease the I accept that this interpretation, put so baldy, situation that I have been describiag. 'W'e are may sound naive, and we have learned that it in favour. The fourth title, providing grants for is unrealistic to speak either of "traditional modernisation, we consider useful, although we markets" or "traditional suppliers". Suppliers, think that the rates could well be lower and whether traditional or not, are üable to sell to still provide an adequate iacentive to farmers the highest bidder. That is business. likely to take advantage of them. With title 3, offering a premium to dairy producers to turn Nor could sit down in private any more than I over to beef, we are in agreement. It has self- can stand up in this Assembly and claim I that evident virtues. We would not wish see compatriots to the my and I have some God-given threshold of 20 cows reduced. right to buy all the beef we need from world producers at the price we consider appropriate 'We are less sanguine about the benefits of the and, only when we have been served, leave the premium flowing from the second title. It does other customers to pay what they think fit for not seem to us that this would necessarily what remains. Trade does not, and should not, pro.duce more fully-grown beef animals without work like that. adding inordinately to the milk surplus. We support this, but it is right to announce now The complaint of the British Government at that that we shall be urging strongly that the time to its neighbour, the Community, was that Friesians should be included among the eligible the action in cutting the tariff had been breeds. We have had great success in producing unneighbourly, with a sudden harmful distortion beef cattle from straight Friesians and parti- of the market. The effect has been a rise in cularly from the Charollis-Friesian cross. prices more startling in Britain than on the Continent. It is with the contents of the first title that we find ourselves at issue. The amendment I must ask members of this Parliament even to will be dealt with in detail by my colleague, and take into account the emotive effect of depriving I vrill only say that this idea seems to us the British of their beef. It may seem to others wasteful in ratio to the results that might be to be no more than a foible, but it has caused obtained. It is not clear how long the heifer a palpable national trauma. Mr. Vetrone could be kept after calving, and if it were an mentioned psychology, and f thought I knew extended period, perhaps a whole lactation, milk Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 139

Iord St. Oswald woutd be added during the whole period to the And to increase the beauty of this policy, the existing surplus. Immediately afterwards the slaughter of cows \Jÿas encouraged-another mis- heifer would be slaughtered before having take against which I protested at the time. The another calf. S/e see more positive virtue in fact that calves come from cows had been lost keeping her in the breeding herd for the rest sight of, amongst other things ! of her reproductive life. Experiments in Britain have lately been increasingly successful in On account of aII these mistakes, we are today producing twin calves from a single calving. in a situation which, unfortunately is not Itris could be taken into account. confined to the Community, but is world-wide. This was referred to a few minutes ago, but I I am sorry to end on this note of even mild should like to recall some examples' controversy but I thought it best to do it in this way, to lay the ground for the amendment Consumption is increasing everywhere, but it is has which is to be moved. not followed by production. In France it fallen by I per cent in one year.' According to I hope that I have made it plain that my Group my British colleague just now, Great Britain welcomes the measures in general as being is beating aII records, since, despite the price designed to alleviate what is a distressing crisis freeze, the price of beef has increased there by for us all. rüe in our Group wish to express our 37 per cent and the price of lamb by 50 per cent' gratitude to the Commission for the efforts Do you realize the extent of the shortage which are contained in these proposals. revealed by these figures? As for the Soviet (Applause) Union, it gives the kolkhozes medals as a reward for stockrearing, for that country is also going to be short of meat. In Japan, demand is ten speak the President. I caII Mr Briot to for times higher than suPPlY' European Democratic- Union Group. In other words, thà problem is world-wide. What Briot. (tr') Mr President, Mr Minister, reason this problem? The stock far- Mr - is the for Ladies and Gentlemen, first of a1l let me greet mers, whatever their production methods may Mr Lardinois, who for years was my neighbour have been, have turned to other things. It is pro- in this Parliament, and who has become the new a sign of civilisation' Indeed, it is easier to Vice-President of the Commission of the Euro- clucè cereals than meat. The former activity is pean Communities. Indeed, having sat for some much less exacting than the latter. If, over the sixteen years in this House, I have been able to years, it has been possible to modernise the pro- appreciate his qualities. equipment used for cereal production, this gress is more difficult with livestock. How many times have we not discussed agricul- problems \il'e continue to do so, There twas a wish to maintain the small farms' tural together? just and I dare say v/e have been lacking in skill' Mr Vetrone, the rapporteur, was right now since today we have to re-examine everything in his words about the mountain regions. But we have built up till now! It is a heavy burden, with regard to other regions, we must avoid Mr President, that you inherit by entering the people being compelled to look after livestock longer Commission just now. ior over-Iong hours every day. It is no necessary for people to raise livestock indivi- I beg to point out that the problem of butter, dually. ih"s" people must join forces. That is which was under discussion this morning, and one change. Because you will observe with me that of meat are interdependent. A few years that in all sorts of areas we have entered an ago, we were complaining about the existence of industrial civilisation, whereas agriculture has a surplus of butter. We did our best to clear it. marked time. Farmers must reach the same Today tûr'e are confronted by a second surplus of standard of living as other people, and you will butter. So the first mistake was not enough for achieve this only insofar as you liberate them us.' as the others are liberated, W'hat in fact has been done in the meantime? \Mhat is involved? On the one hand, a new theory On several occasions I have requested the grant- in agricultural matters and, on the other, finding ing of a premium for calf-rearing' You listened the means to put it into practice. For we have to my words but paid no heed to them. On the reached the following situation: at the present other hand, a premium v/as given for the export time we are confronted by a surplus of butter of skimmed milk powder, which encouraged which we do not know what to do with, but milk-collecting. Consequently, butter production which is going to use up the funds of the whole was increased. This accumulation gave birth to Community, whether those of the States or those the butter surplus. 'We must state the facts! of the EEC are concerned and which, at the same 140 Debates of the European Parliament

Brtot

time, is going to use up the funds of the house- We have to make provision not only to limit wives who buy meat, because we are faced with butter production, which is too higir for our a rise in the price of meat. Is not this a magnifi- needs, but to increase meat production, which cent system, seeing that we have lost on both is what ail the starving people on this earth counts? You have to be really clever to achieve need. that! Suppose for a moment, Gentlemen, that tomor- ,China, Faced with such a situation, tù/e must, as I said row the leaders of that country of 800 just now, get out of the rut, and stop financing million inhabitants, decide to intervene on the butter production, since we do not know what to meat market ? Iÿhat would become of it ? It clo with it. would be utter anarchy.

Then again, you propose, in the text submitted A solution is open to us. But unfortunately it is to us-and this does not concern you, but your not valid in all spheres. We pay some jobs better predecessors-'a premium for every beef heifer than others. Why is it that, in most of our coun- slaughtered shortly after the first calving'. That tries, we cannot find the labour to carry out is a great mistake, and in this connection I have certain work and ure are obliged to go looking tabled an amendment. for labour abroad ? Just because people no longer want to do it. Well, you will come across exacfly 'Premium for the switching over to meat pro- the same situation in agriculture as in industry, not done bèfore? \Me had tb be faced with a but a little later, because its development is surplus of butter before this measure vras pro- slower. posed. I should üke you to retain it for the future. That, Genflemen, is the direction in which we are heading. This is why, Mr Minister, I ask you switching 'Premium for the over to meat pro- to be very attentive to what we are asking you duction'. \Mhy was proposed this not before? for: an improvement in farmers, working condi- Such a situation results in the necessity to find tions. Above all we ask you to act and not to another system. The document states, on the one maintain systems which have more to do with hand, that production methods must be changed; folklore than with reality. on the other hand, a modification which I \Me have taken great pains give proposed and which has been accepted asks for to industrial workers a technical training, but we have made stock-breeders to be granted the financial means less effort to give agricultural workers for production. For in short, when someone is equivalent technical training. Producing meat is much both a crop-farmer and a stock-breeder, one more difficult than producing cereals. compares the returns from the two sectors, the It is very exacting and difficult to carry out. It is a consider- levels of investments and profitabiüty. For the able responsibility. pioduction of cereals, one year's invôstment is sufficient. For meat production how many years' As regards the financial means, to obtain a qual- investment is needed? Sometimes four years. ity ox four years' investment is necessary. Have And when there is rlifference a slight in income, you thought of what this represents in volume it is absorbed by tax. The rise in the price of of credits and of the necessit;r for suitable rates ? meat will bring the farmers no gain, since for them it will be as good as a tax tied, not to the Finally we must take into acoount the specific meat's value, but to inflation. The rise in meat is conditions obtaining in the different countries. not going to improve their funds, for if they Mr Vetrone has recalled that his country is very sell meat dearer they will also have to pay mountainous. Some mountain regions favour the dearer for the calf. So an added burden on the obtaining of quality meat, whether oattle or housewife's budget yields the producer nothing. sheep are concerned, because there are quality It is inflation operating. This must be admitted. aromatic plants at a high altitude. Gentlemen, if you want meat tomorrow, you There is a meat industry which is still jüst will have to pay dearer for it. Farmers must be beginning: the production of bully beef, It allowed to enjoy the same living conditions as entails less capital. There should therefore be a the other social classes and in particular the hierarchy in priees as there is in quality. industrial workers. We You are well aware of the shall have begun to solve the problem when gulf which exists between them. such a policy is applied. Today when we are short of prod- agricultural Tflhat good have six years ucts, we realise the importance of agriculture. of discussion done ? It was too easy to find fault with it, to heap on You should have listened to those with first it all the sins of Israel ! hand experience, and f am one of them. I tell you Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 19?3 t L

Briot we must apply these solutions. Down with rou- we have the intolerable situation of a shortage tine, dgwn with bad habits, you will see the sun of beef and the necessity to pour milk down üomorrow only if you follow this road ! into drains and various old quarries. This has (Applause) happened within the Iast 12 years. \il'e have had to buy milk from tàe producers to keep their prices up and then pour it away because there vÿas no prospect of manufacturing and selling IN TIM CHATR: MR SCHIIIXT it in the manufactured milk market. Something is very wrong with such a practice. Yice-Preæilent I am concerned that some of the Commission's President I call Mr Scott-Hopkins. proposals appear to suggest that we shoüd - stimulate milk production whilst achieving a minimal return in the form of more beef or veal. (E) President, Mr Scott-Iloplrins. Mr it In the debate this afternoon we have heard great - pleasure me is a honour and for about the enormous stocks of butter amounting addressing this to have the opportunity of to 300,000 tons or 470,000 tons, to say nothing Assembly for the time. had always hoped first I of cheese and dried milk, and this within our over the years that I would one day be doing new Community of Nine. Can we really afford this. Now my dreams have been ful-filled. What now to take action which in my country point is is more important from my of view that certainly in the past has had exactly the opposite I am talking on a subject which is very near effect of what I believe to be the objective of to my own heart, namely, agriculture, and, in the Commission, name§, an increase in tJle particular, the ways of trying to stimulate beef quantity of cheese and less manufacturing or production. liquid milk going on the market? This is exactly I share the views expressed by my colleague, what Mr. Lardinois has asked us to do, and I Lord St. Oswald, about the five proposals under suggest it is contrary to the intention of Par- discussion put forward by the Commission for liament and, indeed, that of the Commission discussion today. In my view, the report so ably itself. Mr. Lardinois, I believe, does not in fact presented by Mr. Vetrone covered in large part want that himself. the background to the problems currently I refer here to the mention made by Lord St. experienced in beef production. Oswald to the Commission's first proposal. This In my country we have lived with this for a concerns the sihration where a heifer can have long time. We produce just over 76 per cent. of one calf and then, before the next calf, must be our total consumption within our o\iln island, slaughtered. That heifer, of course, wilt stay in but, unhappily, are nowhere near the figure of production for the whole of that lactation, with 85 to 90 per cent. mentioned by Mr Mansholt the result that all that lactation goes on to the for the total European production. We have milk market. never attained this level over the past years. We Nor am I very happy about the idea of zuggest- have, therefore, always been faced with the ing that tJrat same heifer must be put into the problem of importing sufficient stock to be able breeding herd because, after dI, she will to meet the demands of our consumers. continue to produce cross beef calves; she will As has already been said, in the Iast few months also be producing milk between the calfings. we have seen a most astonishing situation with Even if a recognised type of beef-breed bull inflation and ilcreases in the prices of beef until crosses on to her, the increase in milk v/iU today beef is an extremely rare commodity. remain the same. In my view, this is the most Anything that can be done to increase beef objectionable of the Commission's proposals. production should be done. Later I shall be moving an amendment to the effect that this could lead to doubts. I wish As my country has for so many years had this first, however, to cover more extensively my gap between demand and production, it will be reasons for wanting to do this. understood that we have tried all the means I, like Lord St. Oswald, welcome the other available to increase beef production. Some have proposals. However, one must bear in mind what been successful, some not so successful. I hope the rapporteur, Mr. Vetrone, said when talking the European Parliament and the Commissioner about the mountains, the hills and so on. In my from our experience over the past will benefit country we have battled with this problem for decades in trying to achieve precisely what is some time. I do not wish to be entirely negative. happening in Europe. \Mhat is important, in my view, is to find some We, too, have over-stimulated so that we have method of stimulating beef from areas not had a surplus of milk. The result today is that producing it at present. It is well known Debates of the European Parliament

Scott-Eopklns throughout the Community that there are Group, I shall be very brief in the observations I various hill areas and areas of marginal land shall make on Mr Vetrone's interesting report. which would not be very productive for cereals or any root crops but could be brought back into I agree with what Mr Briot said about the long use. This use might well be stimulated by a form time it takes to create a first-class beef animal. of subsidy or grant for the production solely of I believe one can construct a battleship, or at beef-type cattle. In my country we call this least a guided missile cruiser, in less time than method the hill cow subsidy, the conditions for one needs to build a beef beast. Therefore, I which are very strictly drawn. I am sure that should like to see more interest shown in the Mr. Lardinois already knows the details of these Community in lamb and mutton, whieh in my measures ; so I will not weary the Assembly by country are considered very adequate and tasty going through them now. If the conditions as substitutes for beef, and, of course, they can be to the type of animal that can be raised on such produced much more quickly. land are strictly drawn, this can be a worthwhile and positive contribution to solving the shortage It is a cause for concern in Britain that the of beef production. It cannot be done overnight. Commission has not turned its attention to It would indeed deal with the point raised by regulations for the exchange of sheepmeat Mr Vetrong that those areas of his country, within Europe up until now. which are at the moment not as productive as they could be, could in this way be stimulated to I should like to draw attention again to a produce that which we need. potential source of beef touched on in a speech by Scott-Hopkins, namely, the One of the Commission's proposals concerns the Mr potential of the hill and upland areas for the type of beef buII. That was briefly mentioned production of both beef and mutton. There are Lord St. Oswald. this is brought in, the by If many such areas be found in the British type and kind of bull must include the Friesian. to Isles, notably in \Males and Scotland. I do not want to go any further than that. There are Friesian-ffie beef bulls. They are exce[ent. At present agricultural production in these When they are crossed in at the bottom of a areas is encouragd by production grants for milking herd, or crossed into a straight beef drainage and fertilizers, by subsidies for cows breeding herd, they produce an excellent type of recognised beef breeds and subsidies for of calf which later rears to excellent beef in a their calves. But we are not clear whether a short period of time. pa5ment such as this, based on headage, is in I hope the Commission will study very carefully accordance with the fair competition rules of what is done in my country. We want to move the Treaty of Rome. In view of a shortage of towards subsidies, production grants, induce- beef in the Community, which is estimated to ments which are aimed specifically at the beef have been about 600,000 tons last year, we feel co\ r or beef bull, retaining in the herd those that any action which discouraged beef pro- animals which will produce good beef, encourag- duction in these marginal areas would, indeed, ing the sires, the best of beef-type bulls, bearing be a retrograde step. in mind all the time that the minimal encouragement will be needed to cross in the bottom of Recently in our national Parliament I have been a dairy herd a good type of beef bull so that the Chairman of a Select Committee studying from the bottom of that dairy herd one will get the question of land use. The amount of money a reasonable amount of beef. If one over- spent in hill areas is a large percentage of the stimulates that part of the market one wifl over- income of a hill farmer, but in relation to stimulate the milk production, which will be the amount spent on supporting agriculture it self-defeating in the long term. is, naturally, a very small sum indeed. We heard evidence from such witresses as the I welcome all of the Commission's recommenda- hill farming research organisation that for an tions with the exception of that contained in the expenditure of about É 14 million we could first Article, and I hope they wifl help us in a improve up to 350,000 acres of marginal land small way to meet the shortage of beef and to and the return of these improvements in improve the beef herds and the incomes of beef increased beef and mutton production could be farmers throughout Europe. of the order of 1? per cent per annum. (Applause) I would, therefore, be very glad to hear from President. I call Mr Brewis. Mr. Lardinois of the priority the Commission - intends to give to beef production in such hill and areas Mr Brewis. (E) Coming as I do after speeches upland as I have been describing. from two of- my colleagues in the Conservative (Applause) Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 L43

L2. Clwnge i.n the agend,a Parliament and the Commission have not, in the past devoted so much attention to the promotion President. I have a request from Mr Lücker, of beef pr,oduction. - Chairman of the Christian Democratic Group, As Minister for Agriculture, I have had exper- that the debate should be continued now. The ience similar to my former colleague Mr Héger. effect of this is that the Groups will not be able The were many debates on this matter in 1969 to meet at the close of the sitting. and 1970. The Council, as well as the committees Mr Lücker intends to hold a meeting of his of the European Parliament have devoted mtrch Group tomorrow morning between 9 a.m. and attention to it in the last four years. The points 10 a.m. This would defer the beginning of the of view of the various national delegations sitting from 9.30 ,a.m. to 10 a.m. differed very greatly, at the level of officials as well as that of ministers. The incidence in I call Mr Vetrone. regard to this subject varies often greatly in the sevenal,countries, iust because natural and Mr Vetrohe. (l) Mr President, I wish to social circumstances differ, sometimes appre- point out that- if the programme is altered I ciably from country to country. For this reason, shall not be in a position to be present in the a particular measure which one country would another House as rapporteur. I had in fact intended to like to see put into effect is blocked by out request that two other items on the agenda for country where such a measure would turn tomorrow's sitting could be examined without bad1y. The Iatter country often wants another discussion is concluded this measure which is then blocked by the former. debate. If this or evening I shall have the pleasure of being This gradually culrninates in some seven Couneil. These present at the conclusion of the debate, whereas eight proposals being before the Opinions if it is adjourned until tomorrow I shall be in are partly discussed by the Parliament. difficulty. nevertheless differ.

In spite of this sombre introduction, I must say President. Mr Vetrone agrees with this - that just because of the lengthy discussions motion. taking place everywhere as well as because of I have therefore to consult the House on this the urgency of the matter, I expect a great change in the agenda. number of measures. In my view, the question will be decided in our Community before 1 April Is there any objection? next. I believe that it will than be possible to adopt measures within the framework of a It is so agreed. global, coherent policy, in accordance with the Tomorrow's sitting wil'l begin at 10 a'm. wishes of the rapporteur. Naturally 'we are now only dealing with a part of the problem.

13. Regulati,on on a Wstern of premi'ums tor beef Mr Vetrone's report, as well as three or four and aeal produeti'on (conti'nued) of the speeches focussed attention on the di-f- ficulties ,and possibilities of the hill and upland you on the agenda is areas. f am able to inform that Parliament Præident The next item probably proposal contiauation- of the üscussion of the report will have before it a which aims, inter alia, at stimulating beef production drawn up for the Committee on Agriculture by in the hill and upland ,areas. My predecessor, Mr Vetrone 244172). @oc. Mr Scarascia Mugnozza has prepared this draft I call Mr Lardinois. and I have found it in a form that is pretty well complete. I imagine that this proposal can be put before Parlirament some time in February Cornmi,snon Mr Lardinois, member of the There will then also be a number of proposals Euroçtean (N) Mr of the Communities. in regard to premiums as such. At the same like to thank President, I would first of all time there will in February be a whole batch Vetrone, for the quality of the rapporteur, Mr of price measures. Properly speaking, these must he with what is his e:rposition, in which dealt form a coherent whole together with those for simple subject. I would like to anything but a the hill and uptrand areas, the direct stimulation say the same about all the speeches made here of beef production and those in the field of not only are today. Members have shown that price development, as a result of which we the matter but that they deeply involved in must in one way or another seek to slow down ,also it. they can speak about milk production and increase beef production. The question has been asked from various sides Ifithin this framework we will, I believe, have here, the tCommunity, the European Commission, the opportunity of elaborating a coherent policy 144 Debates of the European Parliament

Larilinois

in that most important field. f propose to put In practice this weapon has proved to be a blunt them in one body of proposals before Parlia- one. ment and the Council. The European Parliament and the Council have I hope that we wi[ be able, with help of more in the past dismissed proposals made by the data, to show the extent of the problem, at Commission of the European Communities least in the fairly long term. aimed, for example, at reducing a certain price because of the existence of a surplus, as being Mr President, I have noted with interest a a vreapon not politically easy to handle. Hence number of remarks about individual measures that this original concept of regulating the which have been proposed here. There has, in market exclusively with the price weapon is particular, been criticism of the premium given an inad.equate one. In addition to the price for each heifer slaughtered shortly after calving weapon which, by its very nature, still has a for the first time. It has also been criticised part to play, we must find otàer means with in the Council and I must say that, from the which ure can better grasp the scope of pro- point of view of control, it seems to me to be dr.lction in the various sectors. one of tJle most difficult to put into effect' In compelling this connection, I gladly await the opinion of Mr Richarts made a very strong and speech. that we must use Parlia,ment. I readily promise the latter that I He is of the opinion premium switch quickly from livestock will convey its point of view to the Commission the to geared production one geared to beef as well as to the Council. to milk to production. In this connection I believe that we Mr Ai&er uras somewhat severely critical can quickly come to a solution on this matter when he said that the Commission is too with the Council. Genenally speaking, everybody late in making proposals in order to correct is very keen about this. go wrong. I situations which threaten to To the rapporteur, Mr Vetrone, f can say that, point Commis- would like to out that the on that point, the experience of the previous past made proposals for a sion has in the period has not been favourable in every respect, situation such as this. The aim was not to but will add that the rnethod we used in 1969 the short term, but the I correct a situation in has to some extent been modified and that we on modifying Commission concentrated above all can therefore expect more benefiLs in regard industries. This the structure of the agricultural to the scope of beef production as we could discussion on was very time-conzuming and through the system proposed by the Commis- in productions has more short-term adjustments sion. or less suffered as a result. What I really mean to say is that blame for this must not be laid I agree with Mr Richarts-I have already told exclusively at the door of the Commission but Mr Vetrone sethat the hill and upland areas that Parliament and the Council must also take will be able to give rnore help in regard to beef their share of the blame. production in the seventies and eighties than has hitherto been the case. Mr Aigner has stressed the necessitSr for a modification in the milk-meat relationship. I will In this respect Mr Richarh has made a plea williugly promise hirn to devote a separate for measures which would be more differ- paragraph to this point in the price proposals. entiated from a regional point of view. I would I sriU also give the reasons for the proposals like to consult the Committee on Agriculhrre we will be making. The transparency of the about this. production, particularly this structure of in Urp to the preseut, the,Commission of the Euro- sector is not without its significance; on the pean Communities-and the Council has fol- gladly Aigner told contrary, I will stress it. Mr low,ed the Commission in this-has been most assurned that anything me that I have a task is reluctant to propose measures which would vary the fuct. but easy. I am entirely conscious of from region to region in Europe. nevertheless trust that will be possible to I it tr'rom the point of view of the market as well evolve harmonious collaboration a trrolicy, in as that of giviag a stimulus to certain kinds with colleagues iD t,he Commission, our dtr of production, to take Holland for examplg the Parliament and with the Couneil which, is it same measunes had to be taken in all areas, be hoped, enable will us in the future better to it the case, for instance of Friesland, Sicily or come to grips with the problems relating to Schleswig-Holstein. surpluses and production. In point of fact we have too few weapons in our policy for this Indeed, it seems to me that, given the present purpose. The whole common agricultural policy phase of our Cornrnrrnity agricultural policy, has been built on the conc.ept that it is possible given also the fact that the Çsmmnity has to regulate production by means of price fiüng. reached. a certain maturity-even i-f tJle strip- Sittine of îhursday, 18 January 1973 145

Lardlnols ling is not handsome in every respect-we Denmark interfered with this. '!ÿhen it was must carefully examiae together the possibility heand that we iatended to make such'accursed' of ,an eventual differentiation in the regional regulations in regard to mutton and lamb, just application of certain measures, and we must before regulations could be agreed with New not say in advance that this can never be done. Zealand., u/e urere forcefully given to understand that the entry would founder on this point I am particularly touched by the persona'l note alone. The Cotrncil then decided not to arrange in the wonds my former colleague Mr Ri,charts market regulations before Great Britain, Den- addressed to me. For my part I deerply regret rnark and Ireland could discuss the contents of that Mr Richarts will, alas, shortly be leaving such market regulations on an equal basis with the European Parliament, and will perhaps have us. I trust that the problem is hereby solved. to relinquish the particularly stimulating part The fact that there is not market regulation he played in the development of the agricultural on this point is ln reality due to a concession policy in the Comnrittee on Agriculture and in to the wishes of Great Britain, to enhance her this Parliament. chances of joining the then existing Community' Lord Oswald made a very interesting speech I believe that I have here answered all the about these proposals. His comments were in questions. places very much to the point. He came out in particular against the first proposal for a pre- President. I call Mr CipoIIa. mium. I have already commented on this. In - this connection, I await the judgment on the amendment introduced by Mr Scott-Hopkins. Mr Cipolla. (I) Mr President, I \rrilJ be very brief. I will -confine myself to a proposal, and Mr Briot has criticised a number of mistakes to going on record with my vote in oase my made in this connection. Without being now able proposal is not accepted. to say that I agree with everything he has said, Having listened I can do so on one point alone. By their very to what has been said by all nature, the drafts for the Community agricul- our colleagues and by Mr Lardinois, the Com- tural policy at the EEC level, did not come into missioner, I believe that ParlS.ament would perhaps being without mistakes. It is better to be able be wise-and moreover there was also to say that there are faults in the common üalk of rthis within the Committee on Agricul- agricultural pol,icy than that there should be no ture-not to vote this evening on these measures, agricultural policy at all, that is to say one even if only for the reason that the Commis- that cannot be criticised. sioner has told us that within a month we shall be presented lÿith new proposals. Mr Scott-Hopkins has drawn attention to the ühis possibility of using marginal areas, for instance So most useful debate which I like all of us have listened to with close attention, will in the hills and uplands, and the possibility of give using subsidies to stimulate beef production. I have served to the Commission the true have already said that proposals on this point views of Parliameut much more effectively than contents formal declarations which can be ex,pected shortly. I hope they will reach the of this Parliament in about one month's time. in such cases are always compromises. At the time of the Com:nrission's new proposals and the Mr Brewis has in particular drawn attention to discussions on prices, we will therefore be able the production of mutton and lamb. He has to examine the problem in depth and take pointed ou,t that this meat can be an excellent decisions. substitute for beef. Personally I agree with him on this, but unfortunately many of my fellow If this proposal is not acceptd, I must declare countrymen do not share my view. Even in the that I shall vorte against any resolution tabled small area of Western Europe, customs vary here on thls subject; not because I do not widely. appreciate all that our colleague Mr Vetrone and our other colleagues have put before us, For the res,t, Mr Brewis has sharply criticised or because, Mr Commissiorurer, I do not for the fact that we still do not have a Community example approve Mr Briot's amendment to one market regulation for beef and mutton. He said of the resolutiong but because I consider that that this has aroused some astonishment and measures of this type-and this I explained fully some conGern in Great Britain. In excusing the in the Committee on Agriculture{o not solve old Community of the Si:ç I must point out that the problem, as indeed many colleagues have the Council of Ministers of Agriculture and the 'said. At the roots of rthis current shortage of CommisSion had already two years ago deeided meat in the Communlty-and I believe this is to draft these regulations in a short period of worldwid+lies the overall trend that has been time. However, the negotiations in regard to given to the price structure within the Com- the accession of Great Britain, Ireland and munity, a price structure which has led not t46 Debates of the European Parliament

Ctpolla only to the butter surpluses of which we spoke that the resolution to which lrre are going to earlier, but also to surpluses of cereals, and to subscribe, without too much'enthusiasm per- discour,aging farmers from produoing meat haps, will be of assistance to the Commission, while encoura§ing other t;4pes of production. I wish to make it clear now that if my vote is For this basic reason and for others that I excuse affirmative it is not because I regard the pro- myself from enumerating, I could do nothing posal submitted to us as a solution to the prob- other than vote against these resolutions, but I lem. Other factors must be added to it, and Mr believe that this evening's vote, after what the Lardinois is very well aware that this debate Commissioner has told us, would be of little must be extended to rezuIt, as he has repeatedly importance, since it would not în any event said, in a coherent agricultural poliry, for only preclude the fuller üscussion that will take then will the problem have attained its genuine place when the Commission, having heard the dimension. views of Parliamenit, will make new and let us For hope more effective and trenchant proposals, the moment, my fuelings are tha,t we should the general accept the proposals made by our rapporteur within framework of a modification just of the protectionist policy which has until now and subscribe to the conclusions he has been adopted by the Community. dnawn.

President. Does anyone else to speak? President. I have reaeived a procedural - wish motion from- Mr Cipolla that the vote on the I call Mr Cifarelli. motion for a resolution be deferred. What is the opinion of the ralrporteur? Mr Cifarelli. (l) Mr President, I take the floor to say that- I do not approve the proposal Mr Vetrohe, rapporteur. (l) Mr President, I of Mr Cipolla. Not indeed because I am com- am opposed to Mr Cipolla's- proposal, above all pletely convinced by what rffe are about to because I believe that Parliament has had the vote on, but beoause I consider that a start must feeling that Mr Lardinois himself is awaiting be made by providing suggestions. And I would this expression of opinion; therefore if this is like to stress my full agreement with a passage the situation it seems to me that giving approval in Mr Lardinois's speech, which recalled that at to our views this evening will not trrreclude a certain period in the life of our Community tomorrow's discussion, as tomorrow we will it was better to have a corrmon agricultur.al have the opportunity to continue it while exam- policy, even if it were open to criticism or ining the Commission's proposals on prices. mistaken in many respects, rather than not to During the February part-session, on the other have one at all. hand, Mr Lardinois (whom I thank for his first official statement) will bring up again the I want to add, by way of e:oplanation, that the subj,ect of the premiums to be granted to hill history of these years will demonstrate that it and mountainous areas for the production of is untrue that the dangers of a certain agricut- beef. tural policy have not been seen; but as a result of the way in which relationships were imposed Mr Cipolia knows that I, as rapporteur on this by force, and given the political situation in problem of beef, believe I have the right to say the European ,Community, it was necessary to a ïvord by way of conclusion; but contrary to pay the price of certain errors, atrd even the what the directives say, thotr,gh I have always price of having a common policy, and to proceed been the rapporteur on this matter, I have never by way of the economic field towards the been given the opportunity to utter two words political unity which is in tnuth our great of conclusion on the subject. For this reason, I historioal objective. oppose thre proposal of Mr CipoIIa. Now, fortunately, in the Europe of the Nine Mr President: Does any one else wish to speak? this theme is being taken up anew and given a forward impulse: we keep in mind, however, I call Mr Héger. that our history is of significance and that this experience of ours can be useful to us in order Mr Héger. (F) Mr President I would be glad to avoid the errors of tomorrow. to support -Mr Cipolla's propesal, if we were not faced with the need to take a decision which For such reasons, I oppose, as does the rappor- does not merely aim to instruct the Commission teur, the request for postponement made by Mr as a whole, although today's debate is confined Cipolla. to the Commission's proposals. Indeed, for rne, the meat problem goes very far President. Mr Cipolla, do you insist on your beyond these proposals, so that, while I know proposal for- postponement? Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 1973 L47

Mr Cipolla. (I) No, Mr President, since our This is something of which the Commission colleagues are- not in agreement. But the should take note and beware. I would not favour declaration of a contrary vote that I made at such a move. f confess that if I had seen Mr. the outset, in anticipation of the reply which Briot's amendment before I drafted my own, f has been given, rernrains valid. would not have tabled mine. I think that his is a darned sight better than mine. President. - The procedural motion is withdrawn. I am quite prepared to accept Mr Briot's amendment and to We come now to the motion. withdraw my own.

There are no speakers Iisted on the Preamble President. I call Mr Briot to speak to his and no amendments have been tabled. amendment.-

Does anyone wish to speak? Mr Briot. (F) Mr President, I do not need I put the Preamble to the vote. to repeat my'amendment,- whi,ch, my dear colleagues, you have no'doubt all examined. The Preamble is agreed to. I will confine myself to stating that granting Two amendments to paragraph t have been this premium is intended to reduce milk pro- tabled and can be discussed together. duction. But this heifer we intend to slaughter, if kept for reproduction could, after twelve Amendment 1, tabled by Mr Scott-Hopkins months, have a second calf. Slaughtering her neads: would therefore be a mistake, for four years will be needed for ,another heifer to reach the Insert a new clause at the end of this paragraph same age and be able to calve in her turn. as follows: just "but doubts if the proposal contained in An odd method, to kill an animal as it is Title I of the Commission's proposal will ready to reproduce! make a significant contribution to increasing For all these reaso,ns, I do not understand the beef supplies and feels that there is a consi- motives of the author of this amended text, derable risk of aggravating the Commun- which will be revealed as not only inoperative, ity's surplus problem;" milk but harmful. I therefore ask the House to be Amendment 2/rev tabled by Mr Briot on behalf so kind as to approve my amendment. of the European Democratic Union Group reads: Insert a paragraph 1 (a) as follows: President. Mr Scott-Hopkins, do you uphold your amendment?- "1 a. Considers that the granting of premiums for all heifers slaughtered shortly after first calving runs counter to a rational Mr Scott-Hoplrins. I am quite prepared to policy for beef and veal production;" accept Mr Briot's amendment- and to withdraw my oum. I call Mr Scott-Hopkins to speak to his amendment. President. Amendment 1 is withdrawn. - I would ask him to be brief because he spoke to I call the ratrrporteur. it in his general intervention. Mr Vetrohe, rappoîteur. (I) Mr President, Mr Scott-Hopkins. (E) I take your point, Mr especially nour that Mr- Scott-Hopkins has Chairman, and will- be brief. withdrawn his amendment in order to support the one proposed by Mr Briot, who has followed There is nothing I need to add to what I said the work of the Committee on Agriculture with when I was talking a little earlier. The proposal assiduity, I must point out to Mr Briot that to which this refers, whereby the calf will be by accepting this amendment-even if, broadly kept and the heifer can be kept for one lacta- speaking, I agree with it-we will in effect tion afterwards but must be slaughtered before be distorting the meaning of the considerable the next calf is born, will not increase beef efforts that we have put forth. \il'e have production more than marginally and runs the expressed a favourable opinion, and have said greatest risk of increasing milk production, in general that the control proposals-and not which will aggravate the surplus problem that only this proposal-are unsatisfactory. By we have in the Community. accepting this amendment, we indicate that we 148 Debates of the European Parüament

Yetrpne are also accepting the related proposal as well to the motion tabled by Mr Briot. Because of as the other proposals which have not been the this, and because one may always bow to subject of amendments. superior knowledge, I ask that Mr Briot's motion for amendment be agreed to. For these reasons I would like to ask Mr Briot to withdraw his arnendment, since we have nÔt President. I put paragraph 1 to the vote. in fact made any reference to the inüüdual - proposals, but have instead considered them as Paragraph 1 is agreed to. a who1e. Aceepting the amendment would therefore mean upsetting the balance of this I put amendment 2/rev to the vote. proposed resolution, which with the exception Amendment 2/rev is agreed to. of the dissenting vote of Mr Cipolla has been unanimously approved by the Committee on There are no speakers listed on paragraphs Agriculture. 2 - 5 and no amendments have been tabled. Does anyone wish to speak? Mr President. \lÿ'e have just heard the rapporteur's position. He has just made a I purt them to the vote. request to Mr Briot. I call Mr Briot. Paragraphs 2 - 5 are agreed to. Houdet. Mr Briot. (F) Mr Pre,sident, my position I call Mr is very clear.- We read, in Mr Vetrone's motion, that Parliament "expresses its perplexity..." Mr lloudet. (î) Mr President, as the Aisem- f was among the perplexed members of the bly has adopted- Mr Briot's amendment, it seems Committee on Agriculture. Indeed, while con- to me that we ought to modify paragraph I taining positive points, which I could not reject' of the proposed resolution. the texts were not what we wanted! Indeed, this paragraph expresses Parüament's My dear Mr Vetrone, it does not matter if it general adherence to the initiatives taken, but takes a long time, so long as one eventually by this amendment the House has just rejected comes to the right conclusions. So I would the initiative of fitle I. be astonished if you did not accept my proposal, To remedy this contradiction, which would make you for, iÎ it is not drafted in the wording it difficult for us to adopt the resolution as might have chosen if you had been acquainted a whole, a modification in drafting seems neces- the with it, it is no less within the spirit of sary to me. discussion. President. I must remind you that the vote PresidenL I caII the rapporteur. - - on this paragraph has already taken place. Mr Vetrone, rapporteur. (l) I felt obliged \Mhat is the opinion of the rapporteur? to call Mr Briot's attention- to the task completed together in the Committee, but it appears Mr Vetrohe, rapporteur. (I) I regret not to me that Mr Briot does not wish to accept being able to agree with the- Chairman of my my invitation to withdraw the amendment. Committee. I believe that paragraph 1 should not be altened following the approval of Mr I leave to the House, and especially to my Briot's amendment, since the matter is in fact colleagues on the Committee on Agriculture the one of giving support in principle to certain step of taking a decision on this matter, since courses of action. But which onæ? I would Iike rapporteur I must remain in my capacity as . to say that our Committee has found a very detached; personally, therefore, I shall abstain. ingenious formula in speaking of: "steps taken by the Commission of the European Community President. I call Mr Richarts. to seek out the measures calculated to encour- - age..." The ingenuity of this consists precisely Mr Richarts. (D) Mr President, one brief in the omission of a reference to the proposals - comments of Mr made. This is why I asked Mr Briot not to insist comment. The very valuable given 'and Scott-Hopkinsi on their own on his amendment, since we have support Lardinois Mr principle ,all proposals e:çeriences with these measures would also in not to the but to steps direc,ted the formulatlon proposals. have been accepted by the Committee on to of This is basic Agriculture. If these two gentlemen had taken the difference. part in the discussion in the Committee on Agriculture, we should, I believe, have agreed President. I call Mr Scott-Hopkins. - Sitting of Thursday, 18 JanuarT 1973 tâg

Mr §cott-Hopkins. (E) I was wondering whe- points - The document diverges on important làer, as suggested by the Chairman of the.Com- from the original proposals, in the main as a mittee on Agriculture, paragraph I was now out result of the discussions in the Council of step following the excellent amendment of Mr previously mentioned, but also following on Briot now accepted by the Parüament; and the accession of the three new Member States, whethet it mtght not be worth while accepting which had to be taken into account. my wording indicating that doubt will exist concerning the subject and to include that The Committee on Social Affairs and Health wording at the end of the first paragraph. That Protection asked if the Euçopean Parliament perhaps would meet all the objections. could acquiesce in the fact that certain amenrling proposals 'are given 'for lnformation' only. Or must it call for fresh consultations? President. - I note that there is a disagreement between experts. The President of the European Parliament put I would remind you that when a change in the this question to the Council, and on 13th June wording is necessary this is dealt with. he received a reply to the effect that the draft ürective of 1963 had remained unaltered in I therefore put the motion as a whole to the its broad lines. In other words, that no fresh vote, subject to changes in the wording. consultation was necessary. The resolution is agreed to.l On 2nd October 1972, the President pressed for a fresh consultation. Once again, he received its 14. Directi,oe on cocoa and chocolate prod,ucts a negative reply, but at the request of Chairman, the Committee on Social Affairs and Health Protectlon was then empowered to put President. The next item on the agenda is a supplementary neport before the Parliament. discussion -of the report drawn up for the Committee on Social Affairs and Health Pro- Mr President, Ladies and Gentlemen, the tection by Mr Vandewiele on the amendments Committee on Social Affairs and Health to the proposal from the Commission of the Protection devoted three sittings to this European Communities to the Council for a supplementary report. directive on the approximation of the laws of must the nature of the Member States on cocoa and chocolate pro- In discussing this, we in things take three important basic texts: ducts intended for human consumption @oc. 216172). 1. the proposal of the Commission of 1963 dealt I call Mr Vandewiele to present his report. with in the Hahn report and approved by Parliament in June 1964; M Vandewiele, rapporteur. (N) Mr 2. the document of the Council, dated 22nd July President, f want, first of all, to make a few 19?1, which differs appreciably from the short introductory observations to this report proposal of 1963; regarding some proposals on the common proposal the Commission dated 2nd application of the legal provisions the 3. the of of contains nerÿ amend- Member States on cocoa and chocolate products March 19?2 which also for human consumption. ments. In March 1972, the Community forwarded A closer study revealed that the new proposals its partly proposals for amendments to the draft directive of the Commission only took into account of tÀe Council to the Members of the European the wishes of Parliament formulated in 1964. Parliament. I will not go irrto this in greater detail. I refer These amendments do not, in point of fact, stem to the comprehenSive report which I regret from the proposal discussed at that time in the has not, for ,a variety of reasons, been made Hahn report, which was approved in 1g64 by available in the languages of the Community. the European Parliament. They originate in a I would only draw attention to the point raised new document of the Council. To my great regret, this in the draft resolution on which Parliament document was not sent to Par- presently have pronounce. liament. will to In this connection, a discussion has indeed arisen We, in the committee, were forced to come to between the President of the Parliament and the the conclusion that Article 5 proposed funda- Counci]. mental modifications. Thus, it was laid down that the Council, on the proposal of the Com- mission, would by a unanimous vote, draw up t OJ No C.4 of 14 February 1ÿ73. the list of solvents used for the extraction of 150 Debates of tàe Eurogrean ParUament

Vanrlewlele

cocoa butter as well as determine the purity I would also like to draw attention to Articles 11 requirements for cocoa butter, for the solvents and 12 of the Council's draft directive. Article 11 used and for the ancillary materials. A time- of the Council document lays down that the Iimit was fixed for this purpose. methods of analysis for the checking of cocoa and chocolate products must be determined in The earlier proposal of the Commission only accordance with the procedure stated in referred to the drawing up of another regulation Article 12. by the Cou,ncil, in accordance with the procedure laid down ,in Article 100 of the Treaty, for What is new is that the methods of analysis which a time-limit of four years was set. used in the supervision of purity requirements and methods must also be determined. The new regulation in Article 5 led to a 'sampling According to the original proposal the Commis- comprehensive discussion in the Committee. sion would have to settle this by a directive It is difficult to see why the Council, which is after consultation by the Member States, already overwhelmed with countless commit- whereas, in the Council documents, this is done ments, should wish to take up these problems in accordance with the procedure of the Stand- which are, by their very nature, highly ing Committee on Foodstuffs established by a technioal, decision of the Council of 13th November 1969. The Comrnittee on Social Aflairs and Health The new article 12 of the Council documents Protection came to the conclusion that it was Iays down the procedure of the 'Standing Com- far more the task of the Commission to assume mittee on Foodstuffs'. This procedure should be provision certain responsibility for the of modified in the usual manner approved by Par- measures of application. Hence the comprehens- liament, to avoid the powers of the Commis- ive passage paragraph 4 the resolu- in of draft sion being further eroded. tion. V/e also changed our views on a number of Article 13 is likewise completely new. It states special measunes taken in regard to the new that the procedure of the Standing Committee Member States. These are mentioned in on Foodstuffs is applicable for eighteen months Appendix II of the Commission's proposals. from the date when the Committee intervenes either on its own initiative or at the request of During the discussion in the Committee on a representative of a Member State. Social Affairs and Health Protection, the Commissioner explained, that a transitional The committee, following in this the point of period years of five vras envisaged in view of view of Parliament in similar cases, is opposed the requirernents of the three acceding countries, to a limited period of validity of the procedure production for the adaptation of the industries. of the Standing Committee on Foodstuffs. This question is dealt \rith in detail in Appenüx II of the ,Council document. We therefore propose that Article 13 of the Council document be deleted. The committee is of the opinion that, in view of the fact that Community institutions have \ fôr years striven for the harmonisation of the Mr President, I have tried to explain, as con- law on foodstuffs, the special wishes of the cisely as possible some of our most important new Member States can only be taken into amending proposals. The matter is, by its very account if they are of vital importance to the nature, highly technioal. I would again like to peoples concerned. refer to the report that is comparatively detailed, and, at the same time to certain points The committee would like to modify article 7. in the draft resolution. I hope that the report For the arguments, I nefer to paragraph 6 of will shortly be given to all Members. The com- the motion, which states that the Parliament mittee has unanimously approved the draft still supports the principle that important re,solution as well as the supplementary report, information put on packing should be in a after three long and difficult sessions and after language which is understood by the user, and thorough deliberation with the experts of the therefore requests the Commission and the Commission, in whom we have had the fullest Council to make article 7, paragraph 3 of the confidence. I express the hope that Parliament directive binding. will wish to support us in this today and accept the motion as well as the amending proposals. We think it injust to lay down that the language ! of the consumer ean be used. In our view, it (Applause) is urgent to state that the most important information on the labels rrutst be in the language peoples concerned. President. I call Miss Lulling. of the - Sitting of Thursday, 18 January 19?B 151

Miss Lulling. - F) Mr President, after pasta But it should refrain from wishing to lay down and beer, u/e are again faced with the old all the technical methods of production in the issue of the methods of making chocolate. field of foodstuffs. In our opinion, these fall The enlargement of the ,Community is respon- within the province of the Commission of the sible for reviving this lssue which had been Communities. settled in 1964, in this House, after epic debates, Our Group will ther.efore vote in favour of the in particular with our old friend, Mr Kapteyn. motion. We thank Mr Vandewiele for his In 1964, this Parliament's Committee on Social excellent work. Affairs and Health Protection had expressed (Applause) serious general reservations against the extraction of cocoa-butter by means of solvents. It President. I oall Mr John HilI. reported that cocoa-butter obtained naturally, - that is by pressure, was far superior in quality, Mr John Hill. (E) At this very late hour I but nevertheless it did not go so far as to say apologise for making- my first remarks in this that chocolate made with cocoa-butter extracted Parliament and would have been satisfied not by means of petroleum spirit was detrimental to do so had I not found myself a member of the to health. Committee on Socia1 Affairs and Health Pro- tection. The 1964 compromise consisted in allowing only a single solvent for the extraction of cocoa- I read this document only this morning. I am butter, namely the petroleum spirit called bound to say that it raises in me certain anxieties spirit B. arising not just from the document but from my inability to comprehend all these matters in a Today Commission Communities the of the short space time. perhaps a proposes very of This is that we should be much more liberal, characteristic difficulty at this present juncture that is compelling the Member States to by when the new Members are, as it were, trying permit as solvents for the extraction of cocoa- to board a moving train. However, ,ü/hen I read butter at ,Ieast spirit B. In other words, all the the resolution, although I personally have a Member States will have to permit this manu- constituency interest in the chocolate and cocoa facturing process, and those who wish to may industry, I could see that between the lines there even go further and allow other solvents, pending the famous list which is to be drawn v/as very much more to it than that as soon asi I sarü/ paragraph (3), special up. mentioning that the wishes of the acceüng States can only be taken Despite some reservations, the Committee on into account if the vital interests of their people Socia1 Affairs and Health Protection has are involved. resigned itself sacrificing on the the to altar of That seemed a very fundamental statement for enlarged Community its 1964 positioar in the a committee to feel it necessary to quote in a matter of solvents. resolution dealing with what would appear to Nevertheless, as there has been reference to be comparatively minor matters such as cocoa technical and political subjects in this House in and chocolate legislation. Therefore, I can see, the last few days, I would like to take the oppor- making such inquiries as f could during the tunity of cautioning those who describe as course of the dray, that there were, intertwined technical the debates on approximating Member with a very technical and üfficult industrial States' legislation with regard to the production subject, overtones of considerable constitutional of foodstuJfs. Whether it is a question of cho- significance regarding the relations of three colate, beer or pasta, the proposed directives institutions of the Community - the Commission, may jeopardize the survival of some industries the Council and the European Parliament itself. in some regions of our Community. Employment I am seeking guidance out of ignorance. I did not and working conditions might feel the effects of wish to participate in any decision concerning inadequately balanced decisions in the matter chocolate on this very first day, but it happens to of harmonisfurg legislation, and the debates on be a subject somé of my constituents asked me these apparently technical questions conse- to watch for. I started at some disadvantage, quently have political aspects which, , in our which I put on the record not by way of protest opinion, deserve to be taken into consideration. by in explanation. Subject to these remarks the Socialist Group On Document 216, containing the resolution supports the amendrnents proposed by the Com- which was published on Tuesday, 16 January, f mittee on Social Affairs and Health Protection. have had no opportunity of adequate consultation Above all it urges that, making haste at last, or guidance either from my Government or from the Council of Ministers should give a decision anyone else because it was too soon. I have not on the directives. been able to consult my constituents at all. I 162 Debates of the European Parllament

EIII could not, in fact, get an English text I apol- and European chocolate. One knows that on ogise for being no tinguist of the Commission's- holidays, after eati:ng European chocolate, I have latest proposals, which the- committee's resolu- more often had to lick my fingers. It does not tions commented upon; and the key documents mean I do not like the two chocolates, and I for newcomers referred to in the foobrotes on cannot see why in principle, provided the dif- page 5 are obtainable at the moment, I under- ferent means of manufacture are not a danger stand, only in Brussels, Luxembourg and from to health, we the consiumers could not have as a photocopying machine. These will arrive short- wide a range of choice as we might. I am a little ly. Meanwhile, I apologise for being ignorant afraid of harmonisation for harmonisation's sake. about the matters on which the Committee on Harmonise the law but let us be careful about Social Affairs and Health Protection have harmonising taste in case it becomes a matter of spent a very great many years. Mr Vande- uniformity. Otherwise v/e shall be in danger, wiele, I know, has been concerned with undér the influence of British travellers, of this for years, anid, thereforg quite clearly having pommes frites with everything. I am he wants to draw it to the conclusion he has been concerned that, whatever the result of this reso- waiting hours for today. Miss Lulling also has lution is, insofar as it has an effect on the pro- been waiting. The last thing they want is for a posals affecting the cocoa and chocolate industry, nerfrrcomer to urge postponement of it, and, there- it should not, as it were, adversely affect the fore, I do not urge postponement. I would'like British position and the position of the other to feel that the newcomers could consider this ne\ilcomers. Ideally we u/ould like to have had a among themselves and that the new proposals chance of discussing It d,e nooo, but I see the put forward by a Commission of Nine would be objection of Mr. Vandewiele, and I do not want referred, in accordance with what I would sug- to be unpopular with his committee before I gest is precedent, to a Parliament of Nine for have attended a single meeting. May I, therefore, advice. It seems that the proposals by a Com- just ask for an assurance, which could come from mission of Six originally were discussed substan- the Commission, that the existing British pract- tially by a Committee on Social Affairs of Six ices, which are long-established and clearly, by and not of Nine. the volume of British exports, are not a danger to health, will be allowed to continue and that However, I leave that because I think the poli- the goods being made at the moment will, there- tical criticisms here are fundamental, so funda- fore, be in free circulation within the Com- preferred mental that I would have to see them munity ? If as I understand, but do not know for disentangled from the body of the resolution and certain, there has been agreed some provisional made perhaps the subject sf discussions by other arrangement in what may be a four-year period committees involved, for example, the Political during which these matters can be looked at Affairs Committee, so that if necessary a subs- again, then it should be without prejudice to any tantive motion, if it is to be a matter of argument existiag practices. I am asking for an assurance and criticisms about the relations of the institu- from the Commission that existing British manu- tions, could be tabled separately. facturing practices wiII be allowed to continue. May I therefore confine my remaining remarks I am sorry to have had to make this kind of to asking for some assurances, because there is speech at a late hour, revealing my ignorance. a sharp difference between the industrial pract- This, I hope, will be remedied with the assistance ices in the making of chocolate and cocoa proof the translators when we have caught up urith ducts for human consumption between the Six the technical backlog and when I know more and the Nine. The newcomers have considerable about your procedures. Perhaps I could have that chocolate production. I believe the British and assurance. I would not then wish to oppose the the Germans vie to be the biggest chocolate resolution. eaters and producers in the world. I understand (Applause) British production is of the order of f,250 million a year, so it is ns1 a smqll industry and it exports President. ,and all over the world. I-iadies Genülemen, the Chair has been h-formed- by the ,Commission of the Of these sharp differences of practice, I quote European Comrnunities that it has been unable just one example. The British technology and to produce English ,arrnd Danish translations of own consum likes a kind of chocolate- the document under discussion. which is manufactured by the addition of not This being the case I wonder whether qre can more than 5 per cent of edible vegetable fats. ask our colleagues to vote on a text they have That in our view, produces chocolate which a not in their ourn language. melts in the mouth but not in the hand. I am a great chocolate eater and I often thought that I therefore ask the rapporteur to tell us if there was a difference between British chocolate deferring the vote until the February part- Sitting of Ttrursday, 18 January 1973 153

Preslilent session tnrould raise any unduly serious prob- Member States are still only being partially Iems. dealt with. I call Mr Vandewiele. It is for this reason that I wish to nefer to the Oommission's reply in Appendix B, where it is Mr Vandewiele, rapporteur. (N) Mr Pres- cleanly stated up to what date a number of ident, although your question- is pertinent, it measures will not yet apply to the new acceding cannot be answeretl quickly. countries. The three new Member States are for the moment only partially engaged in the As rapporteur, it seems to me desirable that debate. the Commissioner should reply to the questions of the Com- contained in my introductory speech. In anticipation of the explanations missioner, I am inclined, Mr President, to Moreover, I would very much like to know support your suggestion to posfuone the vote what the Commission thinks of your proposals. to the February part-session. Personally, I am inclined to agree with you, Mr r President, because it is continually becoming President. I call Miss Lulling. more difficult to conduct a debate over the case - at issue before us. A first difficulty stems from Miss Lulling. (F) Mr President, in the absence the fact that only sorne of the documents are of the Chairrnan- of the Committee on Social in the possession of the rapporteur, and then Affairs and Health Frotection, I should lf,ke, in only in the form of photocopies. This is a conse- my oapacity of ViceChairman of this Commit- quence of the diffenence of opinion which has tee, to reassure our new British colleague. arisen between the Council and Parliament. If the Committee on Social Affairs and Health The Council says that Parliament should not Protection has insisted on this exploratory concenr itself with this matter and that it has report being placed on the agenda for this not sought our view. We are, at present, giving sitting, it is ùot in order to steal a march on an opinion which nobody has asked for. our nev/ colleagues in a matter which concernsl them, but because, as Mr Vandewiele has said, The Commission oan reply that it takes note it is an exploratory report. Indeed, progress is of this opinion but that the European Parlia- being made in the work of the Council of merrt is not being consulted. Ministers, which has refused to consult Parlia- ment again on the amendments made by the A secorud difficulty is connected with the trans- Commission of the Communities to its first lation. specifically request that a copy of the I directive, and if we do not hurry, we will not proposals of the Committee be handed amending be able to put forward the European Parlia- to Members of Parliament. These are con- all ment's poiat of view on the problems under tained in the paper of 2 March 1972 where all the divergent stipulations are given in their discussion. enüret5z, and on which a decision was reached I can also assure our neut British colleague after lengthy negotiations with the three new that as regards the modifications proposed by Member States. the Commission of the Communities, the interests of these industries are safeguarded. can reassure the honourable This already with one problem, just remarked thrat was I know that he is concerned Member who has it yet presented only with difficulty that he could follow the but the Comrnission has not proposals fon ,amendments to its ffust directive debate. as regards extraneous faLs. If the Commission That does not surprise me. The discussions have proposes such an amendment and if, again, the already lasted eight years. I myself have parti- Council reiuses to consult us' we will be able' cipated in the debate for one year and oan once more, to tackle this Problem. console him by telling him that an innocent I wish merely to inform our British colleague man, by name Vandewiele, was selected to bring of the position of the Committee on Social out a report o,n tàis extr,emely intricate prob- Affairs, to tell him that it wished to make haste lem. Many Members before me had declined this so as to make this position known to the Council honour. of Minlistæs where discussions are in progress. I am, tàerefore, the rapporteur in connection This is why the Comrnittee on Social Affairs with a subject which has been on the agenda of and Health Protection would like to see this the Member States for eight yeam. text adopted today, but this in no way prejudges other proposals for modification, on other points Mr John Hill's objections are well-founded. The which, I know, is of concern to the new difficulties arising from the accessûon of the new Members. L54 Debates of the European Parüament

President. I oal,l Mr l-rardinois - to inform the Fresident. [ am therefore consulting the House of the position of the Commission of the House on the- motion to defer until the February European Commuarities. part-session the vote on the motion on the report by Mr Vetrone. Mr Lardinois, rnernber of the Commission of the European Communities (N) Mr President, Is there any objection? I do not know whether -the Jtight I can throw will be sufficient to clarify all the obscure It is so agreed. points. The speech just rnade by Miss Lulling reminded me of the discussion which took place here in 1964 on the same subject. At that time 15. Reterence to Committee there was great indignation among some of the national delegates. Perhaps you \#ill too President. At the request remember this, Mr President. The Dutch delega- of the Committee on External- Trade Relations, tion in particular entertained the suspicion that the report by Mr Giraudo on involüng Parliament in the conclu- other delegations were bent on catching them sion commercial out, of agreements between the Cornmunity and non-Member Stahs (Doc. This does not at a1l appear to have been the 226172), referred to the Political Affairs Com- case, but I can well understand the British mittee at the sitting of 17 January l9?8, is delegation in particular being somewhat reluc- referred to that committee. tant simply to agree with a matter which will later some extent be binding upon Great to 16. Agend,a the nert sitting Britain. It is because I know how extremely tor hard ,and difficult it oan be, I support your suggestion, Mr President, on the speech of the President. - As agreed a short while ago, the rapporteur. next sitting will be tomorrow, Friday, lg Jan- uary 1973 at 10 a.m., and not g.B0 a.m., with the It tis perhaps well that the Committee on Social following agenda: Affairs rand Health Protection should hold another meeüing, to which gladly promise Report by Mr Beylot on a regulation dealing I all - general cooperation in rega'rd to the provision of experts. with the rules for financins assistance from the EAGGF (Guarantee Section); I wilt also to point out what m,easure try of Report by Mr Koch on a thind directive agreement the Council has in the meantime - . concerning turnover tax and excise duties reached. It will then perhaps be possible to find on passenger travel; one or other solutions to this very old subject, in regard to which suggestions were made Report by Mr Kriedemann on regulations already eight years ago, so that we should not, - concerning wines originating in Spain; in 1980, have to face a conflict between Par- Report liament, the Commission arnd the Council. by Mr Kriedemann on a CommunitSr - tariff quota for certain eels and on the auton- The Commission can provide Parliament with omous duy on small halibut; documents. However, papers those which are Report by Mr Kriedemann on a regulation available are on those of Farltiam,ent itseflf, namely - definition of the Community customs terri- of the Committee for Soci,al Affaürs. tory; It is for this reason that I agree with your suggestion, Mr President, f ako hope that the I would point out that the Committee on Exter- rapponteur too will agree to all new Members nal Trade Relations has asked that the three of the European Parliament having the oppor- repgrts by Mr Kriedemann be voted on without tunity to get their bearings. I willingly promise debate. every assistance that the committee may require Report by Mr Durand on a decision on action to throw üght on all the obscure points of this - to protect Community livestock problem. against foot- difficult and-mouth disease; Report by Mr Vredeling on the Community President. Do you think, Mr Lardinois, that - the ,Commission- be quota for dried figs and raisins originating in will able to finalize the Spain. Danish and English translations of the directive between now and the February part-session ? I would point out that the Committee on Agri- culture has asked for this report to be voted on Mr Lardinois. (iV) - I think so, Mr President. without debate. Sitting of Ttrursday, 18 January 19?3 155

Preslilent

Report by Mr Baas on two regulations on Vetrone. Mr President, I would like to re- - citrus fruits; quest you- to put this proposal of mine to the Assembly; since, however, tomorrow I shall Report by Mr Vetrone on a regulation on im- be the rapporteur on these two problems - ports of citrus fruits from EgyPt; relating to the import of rice and citrus fruits from Egypt, and since it is only a question of - Report by Mr Vetrone on a regulation on formalities for the application of an agreement rice imports from Egypt; mad,e between the EEC and Egypt, I would like request you to provide for its adoption Report by Mr Kriedemann on certain fishery to debate. - products. without I would point out that the Committee on Agri- President. - The rapporteur of the Committee culture has asked that the report by Mr Kriede- on Agricutrture Mr Vetrone has asked that his mann be voted on without debate. two reports be voted on without debate. Are there any further comments on the agenda ? Report by Mr Héger on measures to be taken -in agriculture to reflect the monetary situation. The sitting is closed. I caII Mr Vetrone. (The sr.tting usas closed, at 7.50 p.m.) 156 Debates of the European Parüasrent

SITTING OF FRIDAY, 19 JANUARY 1973

Contents

l. Approual of the mi,nutes 157 Regulati,ons on usines originati,ng in Spain. Resolution i,n report ilrawn up 2. Tabli,ng of a rnoüon anil refermce to for Cenmi,ttee on Eæternal Trad,e com,rnittee; Mr Ci,polla, Mr Lücker, Relati,ons bg Mr Kriedernann agreeil Mr Cipolla, Mr Lütkeî .... 157 to usi,thout d,ebate 172

quota 3. Tabli.ng of a rnotion anil d.ecisi,on on t. Regulation on Cstnmunitg tari,tt urgent proceduîe 158 for certain eels amil w,spend,ing the iluty on sm,all hali.but. 4. Regulati,on on finaræing osnstance Resoluti,on in the report drawn up ttr trom the EAGGî (Guarantee Secti.on). the Contmi,ttee on Eætem,al Traile Discussi,sn of report ilrawn up tor the Relations bg Mr Kri,ed,emnnn agreeil Cornmi,tte for Finance and Budgets bg to uti,thout ilebate 172 Mr Bqlot. Regulati,on on d,eti,ni,ti,on of the ctætqm,s Mr Beylot, rapporteur, Mr Larilinoi,s, terri,tory of the Communi,ty. ResoluTwn Mernber of the Commï,ssi,on, Scott- Mr i,n the report ilrawn up the Com- H opki,ns, Mr Lar ili,noi,s. tor mi,ttee on Eætsrnnl Trade Relati,oræ bg Resolution agreed, to 158 Mr Kriedemann agreed to usithout ilebate L72 Thi,rd ili,rectiue on turnouq taæes anil eæetse iluties in po,ssengeî trauel. 9. Decisi,on on action to protect Com- li,oestock agai,n^st Di,scussion of repwt ilraun u,p tor the m:u,ni,tg foot-anil- 'mouth diseose. Discussi,on of report Committee tvr Finance anil Bud,gets bg Mr Roch. ilrawn up for the Committee on Soci,al AfJai,rs and Health Protecti.on bg Mr Mr Koch, r apporteur, Mr Duts al, ilratts- Durand. man opi,nion, Mr Artzi,nger the for for Mr Scott-Hopki,ns, the Conserua- Christi,an Democrati,c Group, Mr for ti,ue Grcup, Mr Lard,i,nois, Cotnmis- Vermqlen, Mr Lardinois, Cvrnnùs- stoner, Scott-Hopki,ns, Mr Lard,i- si,oner, Mr Koch, Artzi,nger, Mr Mr Mr nois. Lardi,nois, Resolution agreed to 172 Discussiun of the proposal |or a ili,rectiue: 10. Regulatioræ on ilri,ed fi.gs and raisi,ræ Amenilment No 7. Mr Dursal, Mr Koeh. origi,nati.ng ùn Spai,n; Resolution in report ilrawn the Committee on Amenilment agreeil to. W foî Agricalture bg Mr Vredeling agreed, Disanssi,on of moti,on. to toithcnt debate 175 Preamble agreeil to. ll. Regulati,sn on proiluction anil market- Amend,mqnt No 2 to paragraphs 7-3, ing of citrus fruits; Regul.ation on Mr Duual, procesnng certai,n tsarieties of orange. Arnendment agreed,to. Resoluti,on i,n report ilrawn up Jor the Committee on Agri,culture bg Mr Baas Motion agreed, to 163 o,greeil to toithout ilebate 175 Sitttne of Friday, 10 January 1973 15?

12. Regulation qrl citrus tttt'it i,mpotts 15. Regulation un meo,sllîes to be takeru in trom the Arab Rqubli,c of EggPt. agnculture to retlect the monetarg si.tuati,on. Discussion of a report d'raun drausn u'p the Resoluti,on in report for the Commi,ttee on Agri'culture Commi,ttee Agrieu,lture bg Mt W loî sn bg Mr Héger. Vetrvne agreed to uti,thout debo,te .. t75 Mr Héger, rapporteur, Mr Scott- 13. Regulati,on on i,m,ports of rtce trorn the Hopki,ns tor the Conseruati,tse Group, Arab Republic of Eggpt. Sà,r Brand,on Rlrys-Williams, Mr Lar- Resolution i,n report ilrawn up tor the dinoi,s, Member of the Cont'ntissi,on. Committee Agriculture bg Mr on Resoluti,on agreed, to ,... \75 Vetrone o,greed to without d,ebate .. 176

16. the neæt 180 L4. Regtlati,on on eertai,n fisherg products. Dates Jor Part-session Resoluti.on on a resolution in report 17. Approual of the minutes 180 drautn up lor the Commtttee on Agrianlture bg Mr Kri,eilernann agreeil to usithout ilebate 175 18. Ad,journment of the sessâoz 180

IN THE CHATR: MR BEHRENDT I take note, also on behalf of the mernbers of my group, of the presentation of this document Preæilent and of its reference to the Political Alfairs Committee. (The ntting usas opened at 10.05 a.rn.) As far as tlte presentation of the document that we have had President. Ttre sitting is open. itself is concerned, we believe - a positive influe-nce on the debate whictr has taken place during the last few days in the influenced L. Approual of the mi,rrutes House, and that we have.especially the speeches of Mr Vals and Mrs lotti' I nevertheless 'consider that this fact does not President - The minutes of yesterday's sitting fitl the political vacuurD alluded to by those have been distributed. colleagues; a political vacuum recorded in this occasion has not been Are there any comments? Parlia.merrt, which on this capable of expressing at the'right time the feel- Ttre minutes are approved. ings common to all the peoples of Europe, and not only held by that great party which has always fought at t,Le side of a Vietnam engaged 2. Tabli,ng of a motion and ref æerrce in the struggle for liberation and against to comtrnittee imperialism (in my country the entire Press- except for the Fascist newspapers-has President. I have received a motion for a expressed its condemnation of the latest resolution -on Vietnam from Mr Berkhouwer, atrocious bombardments). Mr Kirk, Mr Lücker, Mr Triboulet and Mr Vals, Chairmen of the Political Groups. \il'e trust that the Political Affairs Committee will wish to make radical changes in this docu- This document has been printed and distributed ment, introducing not only the principle of grant- with the number 272/72. ing the aid for reconstruction which is their due, I propose to refer the motion for a resolution to the Vietnamese people martyrised by the long Affairs Committee as the com- war fought for their own independencg but also to the Political judgment mittee responsible and to the Committee on expressing a negative political in External Trade Relations for its opinion. respect of the bmrbardments and the American aggression, and political solidarity with the I call Mr Cipolla. Vietnamese people who are engaged, today still with arms, and tomonrow after the cessation of lUr Cipolla. (D Mr President, Ladies arrd the foreign aggression with more pacific mearui, Gentlemen, I- take the liberty of commenting in a tense struggle for unity and national briefly on the statements made by the President. independence and liberty. . . 158 Debates of the Europeân Pârüament

President. Mr Cipolla, f am not quite sure which moreover would find us isolated here. I I understand- the intention of your intervention. do however consider that it is necessary to emphasise both the limited scope and the time I call Mr Lücker. lag in the reply which, through this document, lrre are said to be giving to the feeling corrtmon Mr Lücker. (D) Mr President, I find myself in to the peoples of Europe; the feeling of solidarity the same dilem,ma.- Vÿha,t I have heard so far with the Vietnarnese people and of condemna- fnom Mr Cipolla had no reference whatever to tion of the atrocious bombardments, which on a motion for amendment of the procedure pro- this occasion goes beyond the by no means posed,by the five Political Groups. negligible forces which have traditionally given their support in Europe to the battle of Vietnam, I should like to say to Mr Cipolla that we heard Laos and Cambodia for freedoin from the im- from some speakers in the debate on Tuesday perialism of the United States. and 'W'ednesday that they had gone into this problem. Nevertheless, f would point out that I trust that this debatg which has not been held already in this part-session, will not be postponed indef- the initiative for this resolution had ' been discussed between the Political Groups on initely, and that the presentation of this docu- Monday long before the commencement of the ment will allow the European Parliament to debates in this House, and that the initiatives express itself adequately at the first suitable had been prepared in the previous week. The part-session, and thus during the coming month five Chairmen of the Political Groups discussed of February. between them very thoroughly at what time and with what procedure they should bring the President. Mr Cipolla, it is not a matter for matter before the House. We had very grood 'the Chair -whether the position of the Groups reasons, and these reasons still apply, to select has been agreed with you or not. the procedure which v/e propose, and we ask that this procedure be adhered to. The Rules of Procedure require me to take note of requests tabled and to submit them to the For the sponsors of the motion I may repeat House in the manner laid down. that we want the motion to be referred to the Political Affairs Committee, which, if neces- ,It is not a question, for me, of preventing you sary, can bring the Comrnittee on External from expressing your opinion. Our Rules of Trade Relations into the discussion, so that a Procedure allow you to do so in committee and report may be submitted which can provide a during the debate to be held in February. basis for a really full debate in the House on The opinion of the minority is never dis- problem. this regarded. Mr President, move procedure be I that this You can be sure that as President I shall always adopted. see to it that non-attached Members are able to make their opinions known. President. Mr Cipolla, I interrupted you just call Mr now only to- ascertain whether you vr'ere opposed I Lücker. to the proposed procdure. From what you said it was not clear to me if you were opposed to Mr Lücker. (D) Mr President, after what you it. have said I -need not record my wish to speak. I desire merely to e:rplain that the five Political You have the floor. Groups in this House who have tabled this motion wish to abstain from a debate on this Mr Cipolla. (4 Mr President, you must subject even today. Mr Cipolla has already made understand the- particular situation in which we certain remarks which we should have to reject of the left find ourselves in this House. most emphatically if they were made in the course of a debate. 'We have not been conzulted, as have the other Groups, in the drafting of this document. There- My second point is this: Mr Cipolta, your group fore whenever the officially constituted Groups is represented in the Political Affairs Commit- put forward a proposal and thus ex,press their !ee; you will have an opportunity there to real opinion we, like the other Groups, have .express your views in the same way as the the same need to register our opinion. I have representatives of the other Groups, and when already ,briefly expressed our thoughts on this the report of the Political Affairs Committee is proposal (which are also to be found in the debated here, possibly in February, you can staments made here by Mrs lotti), and I do then express your opinion in public in the same not insist on putting the matter to a vote, way as ourselves. Sitting of f'riday, 19 January 19?3 159

Lücker

At the moment it is purely a question of the refers to the reirnbursement of support on agri- Rules of Procedure. Once again, Mr President, cultural markets by the Guarantee Section of on behalf of the sponsors I would ask for the the EAGGF, we plead both not guilty and procedure to be adopted for which we have guilty. asked. Not guilty, because the Commission has request- President. I am therefore consulting the ed pos@onements on two occasions, not being House on the- reference motion. in a position to propose a suitable regulation to the Council. Is there any objection ? Guilty, because the Commission submitted a It is so agreed. draft regulation to us last Septernber, but unfortunately work on the budget and the strike by the European Parliament staff prevented us 3. Tabli,ng of a motion and, d,ecr.si,tn on urgent from rnaking a report at the appropriate time. Procedure The Council has therefore been obliged to enact President. I have received from Mr Schuijt, a regulation which I admit is only intended as Mr Lücker,- Mr Aigner, Mr Bos, Mr Broecksz, a legal stopgap. The Council ,and the Commis- Mr Faller, Mr Houdet, Mr Briot, Lord St. Oswald sion have been obliged to adopt this procedure and Mr Scott-Hopkins a motion for a resolution because of the urgency of the matter, but on the implementation of a Community scholar- Parliament has not given its o,pinion and we ship programme for young Americans (Doc. should not wish to set a precedent. I am fully 271172). aware that the Council has been able to defend its position on the basis of the provisions of A proposal has been made, in accordance with Article 3, (2), of Regulation No 729170 which do Rule 14 of the Rules of Procedure, that the indeed provide that the opinion of Parliament motion be treated as urgent without reference is not indispensable under such circumstances. to commitee. However, may I refer to Article 43 of the Is there any objection to the request the debate Ilrea§r, which provides that the opinion of Par- be treated as urgent? liament is necessary for such matters. It is so agreed. I do not think that it is possible to hold the I propose to proceed at once to the motion. view that a regulation takes precedence over Article 43 of the Treaty and we hope that this Is there any objection ? procedure will not set a precedent. It is so agreed. I shall now turn to the main issue.

Does any one wish to speak on the motion ? Iffe shall examine the proposed regulati,on in the light of three questions. How does it fit into TLre resolution is agreed to.1 the framework of regulations on the EAGGF? ïVhat are the objectives, advantages and disadvantages of the proposed regulation? What 4. Regulation on fi,nancing assistance modiJications have been introduced into the EAGGF (Guarantee fromthe Section) initial text at the committee stage? regards the cornpatibility of the nev/ regu- President. The next item on the agenda is As 1971, Community discussion of- the report drawn up for the Com- lation, since 1 January the has operated under resources' system mittee for tr'inance and Budgets by M. Beylot the 'own financing, on one hand, on levies and, on the proposal from the Commission of the of based, on the other, on customs duties. European Communities to the Council for a regulation on the general rules for financing It was to be expected that this system, which assistance from the EAGGF (Guarantee Section) is based on an entirely different philosophy, (Doc.229172). would make it necessary to modify the operational procedures of the EAGGF which, at the I call Mr Beylot to present his report. time, accounted for 85 per cent of Community expenditure. Mr Beylot, rapportsu,r. (F) Mr President, Regulation No 729170 came Ladies and Gentlemen. fn the matter of the Thus it was that into force; under its provisions, the transitional application of Regulation No 729170 which "lump-sum refund" system was replaced by a new sSr,stem for the settlement of EAGGF ex- r OJ No Ol of 14 February 1973. penditure with effect from 1 January 1971. 160 Debates of the European Parüament

Beylot

U,nfortunately, on 1 January 1971, the Commis- The operations in question are what are known sion was not in a position to propose a definitive as 'second category' interventions, namely pur- regulation to the Council, and was in fact chase and resale, storage and where appropriate obliged on two occasions to apply for a post- processing and subsequent marketing of pro- ponement of the effective date of Regulation ,ducts. No 729170 ; a first posttrlonement was granted until 30 June 1972 anrd then a second until 31 The proposed solution presents hoth disadvant- December 1972. ages and advantages. During the periods of these postponements, Let us begin by considering the disadvantages. Regulation No 17164 remained applicable. It was, It must be admitted that the lump-s"', system it is true, a transitional regulation. 'W'e novr is simple. It is also economical in certain cases. find ourselves in a paradoxical situation in The cost of storage operations, for example, which the financing of the Comrrunity has been varies fairly considerably from one Member governed by the-I repeat-definitive "orryn State to another. resources" system since I Januar5r 1971, whereas the bulk of the expenditure, in the event, the Nevertheless, the system of reimbursing actual expenditure of the EAGGF Guarantee Section, costs offers a number of advantages. A first rernains subject to a transitional regulation consideration is that it is consistent with the principle because the definitive regulations have not been of a community. Once one has estab- proposed or enacted, although a time-limit had lished a common agricultural policy, a single been set. market with uniform prices which are no longer determined by the States but by the Com- llhe object of the proposed regulation before us muni§r, it is to be expected that the Community is to put an end to this anomaly by proposing itself should assume responsibility for supporting definitive arrangements for the settlement of markets. EAGGF Guarantee Section expenditure. For obvious reasons of simplification, the Com- I am aware that it was necessary for the Council munity authorities have preferred to leave to enact, a regulation in order to bridge a gap intervention and storage operations in the hands in the legislation. However trre are unaware of of the States. It is also less costly for the Com- the content of this regulation since it has not munity which, instead of making advance yet been published in the Otfi.cial Jourrwl. I payments, merely settles balances "with the therefore call upon the Commission to provide States, although it does so on the basis of the us with the fullest details. Nevertheless, I have actual cost of operations. it unofficially that this regulation does not Reimbursement on the basis of actual costs also prejudge the opinion which is given today on offers advantages of economy since, as I have 'second category intervention' operations. already mentioned, ûn certain cases, the costs of operations vary from one country to another; This said, however, I repeat my request to the where they are below the fixed price, the Comm:ission. We should like to receive thor- country concerned enjoys a premium, an un- oughly official details of the regulation recently warranted benefit, and such a situation can enacted by the Council today. create distortions between the various States. I now turn to the second aspect of this issue: ïtris is prejudiciel to the proper functioning of the object of the new regulation, and its advant- the agriculturral cornmon market. ages and disadvantages. Finally, it should be noted that in order to Ttre pr.lrpose of the Guarantee Section of the obviate excessive expenditure arising out of EAGGF, which accounts for 60 to 70 per cent reimbursement on the basis of actual costs, the of Cornmunity orpenditure, is to zupport the proposed regulation provides a series of three prices of agricultural foodstuffs and maintain t5ryes of controls and measures designed to align them within the limits laid down by the Com- intervention costs in the various Mernber States; muhity. However, it is tÀe States which are what we in France would oaII "des garde-fous". responsible for intervening on markets initially These measures are asi follows: i, and the Community reimburses expenditure by the States at a later stage. 1) The drawing-up of a l{st of the phases of rei.mbursable operations; tJle terms'interven- The object of the proposed regulation is to tion" replace and "reimbursable intervention" are the method of reimbursement, which defined; had previously been on a flat-rate basis, by a method of reimbursing the Member States for 2) Tlie need for the Member States to cisclose the actual cost of the intervention operation. their administrative practises; Sitttng of trlday, 19 January 1973 161

Beylot

3) the option for the Commission to refuse pay- modification to the effect that an Article 7b ment of par,t of an item of e>çenditure, ü the providing for the simultaneous submission of amount appears unduly inconsistent with good this report to the Council and Parliament be management, particularly if it is substantially included. higher than amounts obtaining in other Member States. In conclusion, I propose an oral amendment to Article 6, paragraph 3, replacing the date of Consequently, taking into account these rneas- I March 1973 by 1 March 1974 ryL order to take ures which are of great importance to the align- irrto account the Council's decision to put back ment of costs, the Committee for Finance and the introduction of this regulation by one year. Budgets and the Committee on Agriculture have Subject these comments, the Committee for decided, after due consideration, to deliver a to favourable opinion on the Commission's propos- Finance. and Budgets recommends that the ed regulation, although proposing a number of proposed regulation should be adopted. modifications which do not alter it in substance. - .($ppïause). Ttrese proposed modifications are slightly affected by the decisions ,adopted by the Council of President. Does any one else wish to speak Ministers which, I believe, puts back provisions in the general- debate? scheduled to take effect on 1 January 1973 to 1 January 1974. The general debate is closed. These proposed modifications are contained in I call Mr Lardinois to inform the House of the the report. They are,as follows : position of the Commission on the amendments to the proposal for a regulation put forward by First, Article 5. We propose that the date on the parliamentary committee. which the Member States are to be required to inform the Commission of the Communities of the financing conditions of intervention Mr Lardinois. - (ÀD Member of the Com,mission operations and the resultant costs should be of the European Cornmunities. two months after the publication of this regula- Mr President, I thank the rapporteur, Mr Beylot, tion in the Ofti.ci.al Journal instead of I January very much indeed for his report on behalf of the 1973. Committee for tr'inance and Budgets on this The date stipulated in the proposed regulation draft. was 1 January 1973. This date has now been I feel that I should first answer some questions passed; it would therefore be appropriate to about the procedure followed by the Commis- allow some additional time to avoid further sion in regard to this d,raft. The rapporteur has applications for successive postponements being been somewhat critical of the fact that decisions put before Parliament as in the past. have been taken in the meantime on an item Secondly, in Article 6, the Committee for in our proposal. I urill first mention the legal grounds Finance and Budgets has asked that paragraph for this. 4 be deleted and reinstated in an expanded form According to Article 3 of Regulation No 729, as Article 7b. consultation with the European Parliament on true say that Thirdly, after -Article 7, we would insert an such matters is optional. It is to Article 7b based on the opinion delivered by the financing regulation is based upon Article 43 Mr Vredeling for the Committee on Agriculture, but, at the suggestion of the European Parlia- the which seeks to limit the term of validitÿ of the ment, the Council has delegated to itself general proposed regulation to 31 December 1974, siace authority to lay down the arrangements as from 1 January 1975, the Community will for financing i'nterventions by a somewhat have achieved total financial autonomy. simplified procedure, that is to say without consultiag the European Parliament. From a .-o. -§inally, the Chairman of our Committee for purely lega1 point of view, therefore, the Council o Èinance and Budgets, Mr Spénale, has pointed was justified in laying down the Regulation- out that it would be appropriate if, once this which had to be introduced by the end of regulation has csme into force, the Commission December-because the Regulation was of a of the Communities \^rere to report on the func- temponary nature. tioning of the Guarantee Section of the EAGGF, particularly as regards refunds to the Member With regard to the query implied in the rap- States. porteur's explanation, I would say that I feel we should apply this simplified procedure as The rapporteur therefore proposes, on behalf rarely as possible. We must use it only in emer- of the Committee for Finance and Budgets, a gencies. I feel that such an emergency clearly Debates of the European Parliament f,aldln6r§ oscurred in December last as a result of the mentioned by the rapporteur when making his personnel strike. For my part, I readily assure introduction to this complicated matter. Vlould the Comrnittee for Finance and Budgets and its this mean that the other Member States would rapporteur that I shall do all I can to ensure have to subsidise the costs ? that this simplified procedure will very rarely have to be used. As it is, under the new arrangements the actual cost of the product storage operation will be The rapporteur has asked what was finally paid. It may be very high. In one country costs decided officially in Council procedure. We may be l5 or 20 per cent higher than the aver- have, in fact, only two Articles which, in view age. Would the Commission then pay that price. of the time-limit, required urgent introduction. regardless, after it had taken due account of Firstly there is Article 1, with annexes, of our the actual costs in any country, particularly in proposal on the recording of interventions. one where the costs are very low ? If so, it would be in the position of subsidising the higher Secondly there is Article 2 insofar as paragraph costs obtaining in the remaining eight countries 1 is concerned. Ihis deals with the simple inter- of the Community. ventions. These two parts of the Commission's proposal have therefore been fonnally decided I am sure the Commission has worked out upon. I feel that this represents a step on the some method whereby that difficulty can be path to the ultimate goal. Parliament, too, has avoided. One does not want to see extra costs now given a 'positive opinion on this. The rest added to something which, because of infla- has not been laid down. TV'e propose to do this tionary pressures or deflationary measures in before 1 August 1973. I readily undertake to one country, has added unnecessarily to the take into account as much as possible the cost of commodity storage. opinion of the European Parliament in this matter, and to try and avoid any conJlict on I ask for information. One finds the regulations this point. very complicated. It would help a great deal if this matter could be explained more fully. I should like to ,make a few remarks on the other questions. the system of flat-rate costs is not too satisfactory. Some Member States President. I call Mr Lardinois. have money to spare and others are short of it. - The system has significant drawbacks. More- over, this system does not lead to the reduction Mr Lardinois. - (N) Member of the Commission of costs. Nor is the system too logical within of the European Communities. the framework of Regulation No 729, for that Mr President, I try to clarify this matter covers financial poücy as a whole. will for Mr Scott-Hopkins. The aim ef this proposal The rapporteur has asked whether ure can sub- is to provirde for di-ffering payments wherever differing storage costs are eviderrt and justified. mit a report by 1 January 1974. \Me intend to 'We amend a number of Articles. We are advised can thus avoid the situation where, for 20 per cent greater not to introduce these amendments until 1 instance, storage costs are August. In this connection I should like to ask in one region of the Community than in another. whether the Comrnittee carl agree to the report That was not so hitherto. There vÿas a mean, a being prepared not by 1 January 7974, but by sort of flat-rate accounting which meant that I January 1975. I feel that this date would be in one region where due to various circum- preferable for practical and administrative stances-for instance a surplus of cold stores reasons. We would have more experience by giving rise in turn to much fiercer competition have a sur- then. I shoutrd like to give positive consideration -the national Government would to a request to that effect from the parliament- plus of money over that paid by the Comrnunity, ary committee. whilst irr another region-for iastance through a shortage of cotrd storage-amounts allocated were in fact insufficient. President. - I call Mr Scott-Hopkins. I wish to emphasize that in this case there is Mr Scott-Hopkins. (E) As a new Member of no question of one country paying for another. the European Parliament,- may I ask for some The countries need not pay anything in this information from the Comrnissioner concerning matter: it is paid for out of the Commurrity the regulations? I refer to storage costs. budget. Our experience on this point and the fact that it concerns only the intervention costs \trhat would be the position, from the Commis- for which u/e are responsible, lead me to believe sioner's point of view, if the storage costs were that this proposal for modification of the present extremely high in one country ? This matter was system meets an urgent need. Sittine of Friday, 19 January 1973 163

President. Does any one else wish to speak? directive are really important. On closer prac- - tical examination of the proposal and of its Before proceeding point to the vote, f would practical results one must conclude, with regret, out that the rapporteur has asked that in Article that the proposal is impracticable, and that the (3) proposed 6 of the regulation the words authors have not sufficiently enquired into the March 1973' amended read 'before I be to practical consequences of their measiure. Other- 1 March 1974.' 'before wise, they would undoubtedly have realized I put the amended motion to the vote as a whole. certain weaknesses in the proposal. The resolution is agreed to.l One weakness is bound up with the fact that we have to observe international air traffic agreements. The Commission in fact does this, 5. Thi,rd, directi,pe on turnouer taæes but I will not argue whether it adheres strictly eæci,se duti,es i,n passenger trauel snil to the latest version of the Chicago Convention; that is of rninor importance. The issue, then, is President. - The next item on the agenda is the Chicago Convention, to which we are co- discussion of the report drawn up for the Com- signatories and under which articles supplied mittee for Fiaance and Budgets by Mr Koch on board aircraft, which are imported for the on the proposal from the Commission of the purpose of initiating the operation of an inter- European Communities to the Council for a national air service by an airline of a contract- third directive on the approximation of provi- ing state into the territory of another contract- sions laid down by law, regulation or admin- ing state, are to be exempted from duties, taxes istrative action on turnover taxes and excise and other impositions. Accordingly, Member duties in passenger transport @oc. 228172). States, inclu,ding ourselves, the whole of the I call Mr Koch to present his report. EEC, are required to permit the duty-free consumption of such articles in the individual Mr Koch, Rapporteur. (D) Mr President, Member States of the Community. In that Ladies and Gentlemen, I -should like to present respect we have to observe the Chicago Con- the report of the Committee for Finance and vention on Air Traffic, and it is apparent that Budgets on the proposal of the Council for a the very fair objection that the Commission, by third directive to coordinate the legal and its directive, sought to ensure that air travellers administrative regulationsi on turnover tax and were treated exactly the same as a r,ail or road excise duties on passenger travel. I understand traveller-it always being said that these poor that the views of the Legal Affairs Committee, creatures were deprived of this possibility-is which participated jointly in the discussion, will without validity, sinee international conventions be submitted by our colleague Mr Duval. As the have to be observed. rapporteur the Committee for Finance and of What further action the Commission now Budgets, have the followiag comments to will I take? \ü'e have, on the one hand, articles of in- rnake: flight consumption, which must be available, The Committee for Finance and Budgets has not free of value-added tax, free of excise duties, made its task an easy one. It has examined the for in-flight catering, for immediate consump- situation in detail in the course of numerous tion on board. meetings. It is, unfortunately, true that the text of the Commission's proposed directive is any- In addition, of course, articles on which turnover thing but easy to follow. It is no simple matter tax and excise duties have been paid are taken to discover the real meaning, but I feel that the on board. Committee has in fact done so in its very care- rü'e have had an argument with the Commission ful deliberations. It has reached the following as w.hether, Commission somewhat conclusions: to as the doubtfully suggests, this implies a prohibition It is the Commission's intention, modelling itself on selling. When, however, it was pointed out on the rules which apply to travel by land, to to the Commission that a prohibition on selling, prohibit all duty-free travel concessions for perhaps under the German Basic Law, would travel by land and air within the EEC, and to not be reasonable, they said: No prohibition on limit exemption from duty in future to con- selling. In other words, two categories of articles sumption in flight, may now be sold on ,board aircraft-and for Of the voluminous ,Commission document only convenience we may treat ships similarly; on the one hand, articles in-flight catering for Article 4, c, (6) and (7) of the proposal for a of immediate consumption; on the other hand, articles which have paid VAT or excise duties. r OJ No Gl of 14 February 1973. It follows, according to the Commission's argu- Debates of the European Parliament

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ment-this is not in doubt, there can be no instance, on a journey from Frankfurt, via argument-that a distinction must be made, ilo London, to New York. In this èase a pre-tax selling on ships and on aircraft, between articles deduction has to be excluded for articles taken intended for immediate ,consumption and other on board in Frankfurt, if such articles are sold articles. The former are exempt from VAT or on the Frankfurt-London leg in larger quantities excise duties, provided they are subject to them; than for immediate consumption. the latter have paid VAT and/or excise. Accord- ing to Adam Riese, it is clear that there must Once again it has to be worked out on board be two prices on boand-prices for articles of what tax.applies between Frankfurt and London in-flight catering, and prices for other articles, and beyond, and how much tax is left. Still since special prices must be fixed for other more prices. To my find, from a tax point of articles which have paid excise duty. view this is capable of neither proof nor dis- proof. I ,do not think I overstate the position The following example may be useful. In the when I say that this solution proposed by the enlarged Community a passenger boards an air- Commission must be described as impractical. craft in Copenhagen and flies to Rome. He has always heard that Copenhagen chocolate is very Moreover, it would involve a distortion of com- good. In Italy it may perhaps not be quite so petition in terms of intra-Community aircraft good, and in any case he is very hungry. He and ship equipment, since articles of equipment ,^- ,as '"/s saÿs to himself; 'I will buy some on board, air- may a rule be acquired tax-free in non- line articles, and get them cheaply, because they Member States. are free of turnover tax.' And as he is very But the matter does not end even there. Think hungry, he consumes three slabs of the chocolate charter aircraft. ,Charter very he has purchased cheaply on boprd. He happens of flights are popular. Fortunately, we have reached the stage to be an ltalian, flies to Rome and reflects that socially where levels of the population can Italian chocolate is perhaps not quite as good all use charter flights. Take a case where, the as Danish (purely arr assumption, 'as I do not in enlarged Community, charter plane des- wish to give offence to my ltalian friends). a is patched from Copenhagen to Sardinia. All Thinking he wilI take something home for his charter aircraft carry duty-free shop goods. But wife and family, he takes a dozen slabs of wait a moment. This is where the third directive chocolate with him to Rome. He buys the choco- of the Commission now being debated im late, on which turnover tax has been paid, on Strasbourg comes in. The matter is not as simple board. The airline must of course fix another as that, Flight-Captain. Duty-free shop goods price for this, as turnover tax has been paid on are out. You are cleared for a direct flight it, and along comes the tax authority, thorough within the EEC, and you will no longer get and stolid as always-it cannot just be pushed these goods, or at most for immediate consump- aside, much as many of us would like to-and tion. says: This is where we have some settling up This leads distortion competition. this to do.' An in-flight accouat has to be made out to of If is cleared a to Spain or North showing the amount of VAT paid, which has to aircraft for flight Africa or other countries, then under the Com- be reported to Ministry of Finance. mission's proposal all goods are free. We have Imagine the situation: A transaction takes place no limitations to cope with. In other words, in mid-flight; two prices have to be established; charter traffic may expect all sorts of difficulties a special list has to be kept. The same applies from this direction. If I am correctly informed, to sales on ships. You \Àrill 'agree, fellow our Italian friends are for this reason somewhat Members, that it is not altogether easy, when sceptical as to this ruling by the Commission, an aircraft is hurtling along at that speed, tens owing to possible rlistortion of competition in of thousands of feet above the ground, for the their air traffic, which would also affect South- steward who is doing the selling to turn his ern France and Corsica. mind to the finance people and to in-ftight officials The question goes even further. Japanese air- accounting. And when actual finance ,and to whom I have spoken tell me that the evi- craft fly to London via Frankfurt, are there- subject EEC rules. But the Japanese dential value of accounts made up in such rather fore to if plane non-Member State, strenuous ,circumstances is in order, I take leave calls at a i.e., if it makes an intermediate stop, not at Zurich, but to doubt it. at F rankfurt, it regains complete freedom, since But the matter does not end there: further the EEC has no po$rer to determine what EEC administrative difficulties arise if, in the course articles may be taken aboard at Zurich. Hence, of sea or ,air travel, not only EEC countries but it would seem that this directive by the Com- more remote third countries are. involved; for mission tends to be pther impractical. Sitting of f,Hday, l9 January 1073 1Ê5

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It is not, however, the case that we, the Com- munity referred to in the first line of the drrect- mittee for Finance and Budgets, have not con- ive to those travellers who dise.mbark from air- cerned ourselves with this special problem of craft and ships. Thls goes a long way towards duty-free goods. If a proposal for an amendment ,meeting the Commission's views. Ihe Commis- cites item 10 of the Parliament resolution of sion would like to abolish everything; we say, 28 February 1972, which states that Parliament be merciful anrd grant the limited exemption, -. -legards an early solution of the freeing from that is 25 units of account, plus specified quant= ' tax of deliveries to duty-free shops at airports ities of the goods subject to excise duties, e.g. and sales on board aircraft and ships as desir- 200 cigarettes. able, one cannot just pick one item out of this resolution; the resolution must be seen as a In my opinion the resultant possibility qf un- And the resolution does in fact contain taxed consunptiou of up to 25 u.a should be whole. ,provisionally. this passage, and the Commission knows that accepted Umder Articles 1 and 2 its hands are tied: of the Commission's proposals it already exists in the case of intermediate stops in a non- '...therefore considers it indispensable' that Member State. Should the passenger leave the rates of Vi.T and excise duties in force in aircraft in London and be asked by the Customs Member Staes be assimilated as soon as officer what he has purchased on boar.d, and possible.' he invokes the limited exemption, the officer will let him go free, following the slightly you Members of the Commission, know that it amended biblical injunction: "Go thy ways, the is not in your power to make any rapid progress Committee on Finance and Budgets and the in this matter. But we have to make allowances European Parliament in Strasbourg hath holpen for this. If we had got as far'as haviag a uniform thee." market, i.e. if the rates of VAT lÿere coordinated, all problems would be solved. But That is the purpose of our proposal. In my view v/e have not reached that stage yet. our proposal of a transition period is perfectly reasonable. Ttris transition period, which we I would suggest, therefore, that our proposal be of the Committee for Finance and Budgets judgment, judgment as follows: in my or in the should like to see established for 5 years-others of the committee, the end sought by the Com- may perhaps wish to limit it to 3 years:should mission can be more readily achieved by a solu- be recognized, tion regarding imports. Duty-free goods would be supplied to aircraft and ships free of all tax Ttre Committee does, however, make one appeal or dqty, and sold on them free of tax or duty. to the economic interests concerned: Please, This meals that only duty-free goods are taken Gentlemen, do a little thinking during this o4 board, i.e. exempted from VAT and excise period and be open to ideas for possible amend- duties. Ttris would do away with the need for ments, since we do not wish to abandon the two prices, and no in-flight accounting with the matter completely. Let no-one come along after finance authorities is neoessary. W'e should have the transition period and say that everything only one uniform price for sales on aircraft anrd should remain as it was. That is not the inten- ships. tion of our proposal. Its purpose is that, given the enormous economic irnportance of this third This assumes of course that the passenger rnust directive, the economic interests concerned be checked on leaving the aircraft or ship. On should merely be given the opportunity to arrival at his destination the traveller must pay change their methods: we concede that such a tax on goods rpurchased and not consumed on change must occur. board. Is such an idea altogether far-fetched? Not at all. We have perused the Commission's I will not refer to the many ramifications of draft and find that Articles 1 and 2 of the such a measure, if it were introduced. I would directive contain such proposals. We shall apply say only that the proposal of the Comrnittee for these universally. Under them the traveller will Finance and Budgets very largely accepts the enjoy the wide immunity from duty if, on leav- Commission's ,case, but that we maintain the ing the aircraft, he affords proof that he has limited exemption from duty. I helieve that the acquired the goods on the general terms of the Chairman of the Committee for Finance and domestic 'market. this vrill probably mean Budgets once very aptly described the position, certâin difficulties at the check-point, since in response to an observation by the Commis- without this proof he should, strictly speaking, sion, when he said: 'In view of the rrillions of enjoy no tax exemption- On behalf of the Com- . turnover of the cigarette industry, is the Com- mittee for Fjnance and Budgets we thus propose, o'ymission really saying that, by granting the in order to lessen resistance to this revised rule, lirnited exemption, say for 200 cigarottes which granting, for a specified time, the limited im- enter the EEC duty-free, the puropean cigarette 166 Debates of the European Parüament

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market would be disorgarrized, or that, given being made towards an ideal solution which we the countless litres of whisky exported from have not yet achieved. Great Britain which are drunk e',rerywhere, not to- a single litre may be imported duty-free for a It is desirable that we should take a step transition period?' wards harmonization through the measure which we shall be approving in this part-session, unless I believe that what I propose is fair to the aims the Commission of the Communities reaches the of the Commission, but preserves a certain conclusion that we have not yet achieved our humanity and affonds an opportunity, during objective and submits a fourth proposal for a the transition period-we propose five years- directive. to think things out, to develop new ideas. I would ask you once again to proceed on these If, as it has been put to us, we reject the con- lines. We have proposed ,a very brief formula clusions of the third proposal outright, I believe and propose to add only a paragraph 4 to Article that we will have failed to make our contribu- 2 of the present directive. This would meet the tion towards finding a universally satisfactory wishes of the Committee for Finance and formula. Budgets. I would ask you to agree to the propos- I listened with the greatest interest to the : al of the Committee for Finance and Budgets extremely pertinent explanations given by our which I have presented to you. colleague, Mr Koch. You will appreciate that, (Applause) asi a nelv arrival in this House, I do not propose to seek to invalidate the proposal made by our colleague. His incisive arguments have un- IN THE CHAIR: MR SCHITYT doubtedly had their effect on the feelings and attitudes of our colleagues. I myself came close Vi,ce-Presid.ent to being convinced by the forcefulness of his arguments. President. I call Mr Duval, draftsman for the - But I cannot disregard the dictates of good sense opinion. and reason which prompt us, not to reject the proposed directive from the Commission of the Mr Duval, draftnnan tor th,e opi,ni'on, (tr') Communities outright, but to try to make good Mr President, my dear colleagues, I shall- be what we have been able to look upon as a few very brief. Indeed, the amendment which I have minor shortcomings and introduce a few amend- the honour to submit for your consideration is ments of form rather than substance to the self-justifying and needs no further e>rplanation, provisions which it contains. I am convinced since you all have to hand the report which I that, in so doing, we shall have accelerated submitted on this matter to the Legal Affairs rather than delayed the progress which we all Commitee, which approved it. wish to achieve. My purpose is to attenlpt, in cooperation with It is for this reason that we have seen fit to the Commission of the Communities, to achieve table these amendments which we ask the the harmonization of regulations which, when Commission to include in its proposal in order applied to the fu1l, are creating an anarchical to achieve our objectives. situation for the ever-increasing number of (Applause) people travelling as tourists in the countries of the Comrnunity, or even outside the territories PresidenL I call Mr Artzinger to speak for of these countries. the Christian- Democratic Group. I have no desire to dramatise, and I therefore believe that the lucidity of your judgment will Mr A,rtzinger. (D) Mr President, Ladies and lead you to concur with me in acknowledging Gentlemen. My- first task is to thank the rap- that, in our progress towards this har:nonization, porteur, Mr Koch, very cordially for his report. we can find nothing in the measures contained I think you will all have noticed that he had in this proposed third directive from the Com- quite a tricky subject to deal with, which it was mission of the Communities which represents not altogether easy to penetrate and is even an obstacle to harmonization. more difficult to present intelligibly. I arn specially grateful to Mr Koch for having I have no wish to suggest that this text is per- discovered a human note, which will certainly fèct. Nothing is perfect in this world, and in toake a discussion of this subject easiêr. this third proposal, reference is made to the first two proposals submitted by the Commis- On behalf of rny Group I wish to say that we sion, and this clearly implies that progress is agree with tJre proposal of the Committee for Sitting of Friday, 19 January 1973 167

Artdnger

Finance and Budgets as submitted by the rap- Brussels to take more time to deal with duty- porteur. free shops. If, as is apparently the case, , the representatives of these States have already Mr President, as you know, this House has come to an agreement, I fear that the Commis- always sought to alleviate the difficulties caused sion has little chance of succeeding with its to passenger excise travel by turnover tax and proposal for a third directive. duties. We are therefore very pleased to have reached a stage where an exemption of 125 u.a It is admitted that important economic interests exists within the Community, which enables the are involved in regard to duty-free shops. To ordinary traveller to pass through without mention only one figure, receipts at Frankfurt customs clearance. airport from duty-free transactions (duty-free shops) represent about 20 per cent of the total fn our relations with non-Member States we turnover. With a total turnover of 232 million have an exemption of 25 u.a. which certaialy DM in 1971, this would mean some 40 to 50 does not satisfy everybody; that is an impos- million DM. You will understand that the lobby sibility, but in the meantime it does afford an representing these interests will oppose the opportunity to take a thing or two with you. directive. The Commission's proposal is intended to close ïV'e have certainly no wish to play the game of a gap of which we too are very consci,ous. I these representatives, but ure believe that would, therefore, ,concur entirely with the practical solutions must be found, and the Com- Commission's request, which this third mission wilI have to denote further thought to directive seeks to implement. It certainly is not the subject. At any rate, this proposal does not satisfactory that there should be loopholes in meet the requirements we have to consider, the system which enable some travellers to the needs of an airline creu/ or of the crev/ of remain relatively immune from the incidence a.ship. of turnover tax and excise duties; I will not refer to sea travel. It is unfair to other travellers, On behalf of the Christian Democratic Group even though I am not prepared to man any we support the proposal made by the Committee barricades in their defence. Sti[, this leak must for Finance and Budgets and discussed by the be plugged, although both we and the rapporteur rapporteur, as we consider this the most balanced and the Committee feel that the method by - proposal that can be put forward at the moment. which the Commission wishes, with its proposal, \ to plug this hole is not appropriate. Some better President. I caII Mr Vermeylen. ideas are needed. - Mr Vermeylen. (Àl) Mr President, I wish to I fully agree with Mr Koch when he says that - it is not practicable to fix different prices in make a short statement in support of Mr Duval. proposal aircraft and ships to meet the tax regulations, I consider his really very moderate. perhaps, and to have to keep double or treble bookkeep- I shall, express myself somewhat dif- ing showing which articles are duty-free and ferently than he did when he addressed the which are taxable. Ttrat certainly is a burden rapporteur, Mr Koch. I must confess that the which people cannot be expected to accept. I rapporteur has not convinced me. One accepts admit that the problem is a di-fficult one. Our that the present situation is indeed unreasonable, intention in framing the resolution v/as, there- However, for practical reasons it is considered present fore, to ensure that we get a practicable solution impossible at to aecept what the Com- proposed. for a transitional period with the limited exemp- mission has Whether it concerns rail, tion of 25 u.a., but that within a period of five air or sea travel, the practical difficulties are, years all conceraed are to consider the problem, in my opinion, the same. Non-Member States are and the Commission is to make a suitable said to be involved. This applies also tq rail proposal to plug this'gap more effectively. I travel. If there are difficulties in particular believe this to be a feasible method and the countries it is very easy to close storage places best way open to us at present, and it is possible wherever they should be closed. I quote a very to discuss the 5 year period. \Me would not simple example. On the railways in Belgium all shrink from reducing this period to 3 years in alcohol is locked away in store; as soon as the accordance with the Legal Committee's motion. bonder has been crossed, the store is opened That should be a possibility. again. That is extremely simple. The trouble is, that it is argued that it would be an unpleasant The difficulty of the position may be judged by move on the part of our Parliament to ask for the fact 'that, according to a report in the this. It would bring a reaction. But to me, it German press, which the Commissioner can seems pleasant enough. For the simple traveller perhaps either confirm or deny, the represent- it is not unpleasant. Only a minimum has been atives of the Nine EEC States have agreed in exempted. It is unpleasant, however, for the 168 Debates of tÀe Europegn Parüament

Vemeylen

great commercial enterprisgs. The figures quoted individual passengers may carry. The result is indicate only too clearly the urgent need for t,l.at we can deal with very large streams of pas- rntervention. I believe the Commission when it sengers at our borders with a measure of con- speaks of thousands of millions. I support Mr trol which is in fact minimal and which is no Duval's amendment. I repeat that, 4s far as I am Ionger directed at the individual. concerned, it is the miJdrnum. I would have been much tougher and would have accepted the I am disappointed at the proposal for amend- Comrrission's proposal. ment by the Committee for Finance and Budgets which in fact seeks to incorporate into our system a considerably greater control especially I call Mr Lardinois to inform the Pregident. - over air and sea pasisengers. If we do adopt Hogse of the position of the Corqrnission of the the parliamentary commission's proposal it will EUropean Communities. have a negative effect of great importance.

Mr Lardiqois, Mernber of the Comnûssi,on of the I believe that I can prove this. What, in fact, is Europeon Comrnuni,ti,es. (N) Mr President, I it that we are doing? \ü'e are trying to follow must excuse my colleague,- Mr Simonet, for a certain path in our enlarged European Com- whom I deputize on behalf of the Commission. munity by adopting what has already been I vdsh first to reply to Mr Koch, then to the achieved in those countries of our Community members who have spoken. which are most integrated. The system proposed by the European Cornmission has already been I aq extremely pleased that this matter has substantially followed in the Benelux countries obviously been thoroughly studied by two of for years. It has proved satisfactory. It may be Parlia-ment's comrnittees. I consider this to be said that the Community need not necessarily valuable and right in view of the fact that this take over the Benelux system and that is indeed subject provokes public opinion. It has received so. a great deal of pr.rblicity and no doubt there is more to follow. During these last days it has But there is, in fact, a similar arrangement be- been mentioned from various sides that in our tween Great Britain and lreland. Economically European work we should give due considera- speaking these two countries are very much tion to subjects which affect the individual integrated and they have taken uleasures on citizen. It is therefore appropriate that ample passenger travel at their borders which make for time is taken in this Panliament to study the a very smooth movement to the extent that there matter. I am therefore pleased at the way in is practically no customs control with regard to which Parliament has felt that it can, may and the passengers themselves. Should we wish to must deal with this matter. meet the dearest wish pf Parliament ald the citizens in the Community and aim at minimal f am, however, disappointed in the point of view control and greatest possible freedom, then I ta.ken by the Committee for Finance and Budgets feel we ought to take some risks. IMe must dare and in particular that expounded by the rap- then to take measures which, technically speak- porteur this morning, and for two reasions. ing, could perhaps be somewhat more perfect if vre were a little further ahead in other aspects I recaU very clearly from the period 1963- of the harmonisation of our regulations. I am 1967 that this Parliament has always held the thinking, for instance, of VAT. Mr Koch has view that, of course, it is all very well to argue said: if orüy we had given VAT full uniformity. that all sorts of arrangements must be made for trade, so that commercial traffic at the borders Mr President, if the Community always had to will be interupted as Iittle as possible during wait until the Ministers of Finance had solved movement between Member States. Parliament their problems, then I can assure you that we has always seen it as its central task, however, would have had trro rqgricultural trlolicy to ensure that the Community as such would whatsoever. If there had been no agricultural catch the imagination of the citizen. It follows policy, then we would not have progressed as that Community measures shoul'd be taken to far with Customs Union as vre have. In my release the ordinary traveller in our Com- opinion there would in that case have been no munity frorn the feeling that at the borders his earthly reason for Great Britain, Ireland and baggage and person are under suspicion. Denmark to join this Community which would then, in fact, not have been a Community in the other words, we sho'ild arrivg as speedily [n present sense of the word. and smoothly as possible, at greater freedom i4 passenger travel. I believe that during the The system proposed by the Commission will pasû few months signi-ficant progress has been also, of course, have its difficulties. Mr Koch made in this respect especially in view of the has illustrated this with the example of the extension of the range of exempted goods which chocolate which I understand one can buy on Stttitrg of Ffiday, 19 January 19?3 109

La,rdinois

an aeroplane from Denmark to Sicily either to five years were hot decisively important to his eat or to take home as a present for one's Group. Ihey could also accept the term of three children. I do not wish to be unkind, but I too years proposed by the Legal Affairs Commtttee. could quot*not to say invent- such examples. \Mhen I fly from Brussels to Rome I am given Mr President, the Commission of the European so many refreshments on the aircraft that I Communities attaches much importance to this proposal gives g,reat would not dream of eating three bars of chocolate and it also value to the as wel:I. It appears to me that we must not try understanding of Parliament's side. It has pro- and look for arguments here which cannot be therefore nothing against the amendrnent posed called very realistic. If one does want to do this, by Mr Duval on behalf of the Legal Affairs however, I may say that we know of something Committee and is prepared to adopt the term similar on the trains a]so. On the train from of three years in its further proposals. Brussels to Strasbourg one can buy goods on I would add, however, that we should interpret whioh there are different values of VAT, accord- the three years as being years in which a sort ing to which country one is in. this is, of course, of degressioncan be applied. If we ùere not âble not the ideal situation, but buying goods is not to agree on this we would flrst have to furcrease prohibited. A way has been found and we must the quantities appreciably in order to teduce try to improve the situation gradually. I do not them again later. feel, however, that it will be sufficient if we say that things should rem'afun unchanged. If the proposer of the,amendment were to adapt his text in this sense, if Panliament could agree Mr President, one of the reasons why the Com- with this thought and if we could therefore mission dealt this proposal so quickly is with interpret the 'amendment itr this sense, the as follows. Please try to vi5ualizs the Commission can in this respect be in complete discrepancies which can arise between travellers agreement with the proposals, the interpretations on the continent and those to the isla:rd areas and the wi:shes of the Legal Affairs Committee. of our Community. These island areas are I must rqreat, however, that it objects strongly e:ttremely important-over 60 million people live to the proposal of i\{r Koch ând that of the there- passenger transport from the Continent Committee for Ffulance and Budgets. give to to the islands and vice versa can rise (Applause) great problerns.

And tryhat fiscal consequences this can have in President. I catl tt u a Community which will be characterized by an - "apportJ,r". enormous expansion in passenger travel. Mr Koch, rapporteur. (D) If I may make a It is, ttrerefore, vital that the problem be tackled comment on the Commisslongr's- reürarks, I and a reasonable solution found. should like to say that he mentioned a cettain degressive element. lfrat in fact is our aim. We Once again, Mr President, 'ean only say that I want to switch over from the wide to the lfunitêd was very disappointed the proposal I in of the exemption- We are not deaf to posslble sug- Committee for Finance and Budgets and that gestions here, but $re say that at this stage you I would dissuade the European Parliament in must not pour out the baby with the bâthwater. every respect from supporting it. I address will fn our opinion, with an exemption from excise this in particular to Mr Artzinger, who declared duty of 25 u.a.-about 90 DM-and reduced duty- that he felt that Koch's proposal should be Mr free quantities, passenger traffic wiltl receive its sup,ported by his Group. course', he said, 'Of 'we due. realize that great commercial interests are involved and we, as Parliament, must certainly \Mhat is it that prompts me to make my pro- not create the irnpression that we act as a sort posal? I ,am not connected with any economic of lobby for these great commercial interests, interests, I,am an independent Membet of Parlia- but the Commission's proposal remains insuf- ment, a fact which I again take the oppdrtunity ficiently balanced. In any case more time is to stress. needed to achieve these things.' May I further emphasize that for this reason, The Legal Affairs Committee, on the other hand, I regret what was said in the October number has taken a different point of view and has of the Commission's German-language edition shown mone understanding for the Commission's of "The European Community" about this pro- proposals. But it has made an important com- posal. The article contained some expressions to ment against the Commission's proposal; namely which I most sharply objected. UnÏortuaately, that more time is needed to bring this into this was not published, and it has not even been practiae. In fact, this came out also in what thought hecessary to debate the case with me, Mr Artzinger said. He, too, mentioned that the at any rate not So far, 170 Debates of the European Parllament

Koch

These remar,ks by the spokesmen's Group of were purchased on the basis of the general the Commission in October, when I as a rap- tax conditions in the domestic market of one porteur received the first draft, may be sum- of the Member States. marized somewhat as follows: 'You in Parlia- ment can do as you wish, by the end of the year This means that he must carry with him an it vrill have been adopted.' Ttris draft and this invoice or bill. Do you regard that as an easing letter were not so very ,gratifying. If, for of passenger travel? If he does not do so, he may instance, there were in the Bundestag a draft, claim only the limited exernption. and the House organ of the Ministry of Finance any case the proposal of the Committee for to say: you are doing is not all that In were '\Mhat Finance and Budgets provides only for the important; by the end of the year the Federal limited exemption and no more. No more! Even Government will have accepted it,' that would if he produces the proof, he cannot claim any be nice either. not very more. Is that an easing of passenger travel? I am not concerned with such economic con- I feel therefore that the Commission should siderations. From my point of view they are consider whether it cannot keep within the limits marginal. For me what counts is the question of the practicable. of practicability, and it is our belief that we in In addition, I should be grateful for an ansvrer no tÀ/ay handicap passenger travel by admitting to my question: Is it really a fact that the this limited exernption for air and sea travel representatives of the Nine EEC States have for a transitional period. This would meet the agreed in Brussels to do nothing for the present, situation. There would be a degressiveness be but to allow themselves more time to harmonize tween the existing conditions and a future this traffic which we are now considering? situation in 3 or 5 years time. I must therefore adhere to the proposal of the President. I will now call on Mr Lardinois. Committee for Finance and Budgets, because it - best meets the present situation and it already Mr Lardinois, Member of the Commissi,on of the signifies a positive gesture towards the Com- European Communities.- (N) Mr President, the mission. We are far from stubborn and have no regulation about which Mr Artzinger has spoken wish to make a clean sweep of everything. \Me does not apply to transport within the Com- are making a transition from the wide exemption munity. It applies only to through traffic where of 125 u.a. to the limited exemption of 25 u.a. part of the movement is within the Community. That surely is a positive gesture. Tÿe reduce the f1'ss allqwances on whieh excise duties are I am pleased that Mr Koch favours a certain based, e.g. from 300 to 200 cigarettes. The degression. In the proposed amendment and in readiness to compromise shown in the Commit- the motion for a resolution, however, no term tee's proposal surely merits eppreciation. I whatsoever has been mentioned. By definition, therefore feel that I must say to the Commis- therefore, degression is almost excluded. Commit- sion's observations that I consider the Parliament accepts the amendment proposed practical If tee's proposal reasonable and the most by the Legal Affairs Committee, the Commis- solution in the circumstances, and for that reason sion is prepared to undertake that in the next ---', wish to sr.tpport it. three years the small franchise of goods to the "9 value of 25 u.a. with a maximum of 200 cigar- President. I call Mr Artzinger. ettes, and the small franchise for excise goods - wilt be maintained. I believe that the degression which I have promised can have real significance Mr Artzing (D) President, regret Mr I in the next three years within the framework that I too must make short comment. Mr a of the Legal Affairs Commission's amendment. Lardinois said he was disappointed at the state. After that vre can continue to build on the ments made, particularly of the napporteur, those original proposals of the Commission. because Parliament had also been concerned to free passenger travel within the Community from unnecessary formalities, but now, when President. Does any one else wish to speak? the Commission made such proposa"l, Parlia- - a The general discussion is closed. ment opposed it. \Mith respect, such is not the case. The Commission is proposing-I will quote 'W'e come now to the proposal for a directive, the text: discussion of the motion for a resolution itself coming immediately afterwards. In order to claim the benefit of the wide exemption the traveller must show proof On the proposal for a directive no. 1 amendment that the goods contained in his luggage no. t has been tabled by Mr Duval and reads: Sitting of trHday, 19 January 1973 LIL

Prestrlent is the opinion of the rap- Adopt the text proposed by the Commission of President. - What the European Communities with the following porteur? amendments: (D) for amend- Mr Koch, rapporteur. - Motion I. Preamble ment No 1, in its present form, supports practically everything that the Commission Insert at the end of the first recital "and proposes. I therefore propose that Motion for 100". amendment No 1 be rejected'

II. Article 4 wish to speak? President. - Does any one else Paragraph (c) 7 of this article to reads as I put amendment No 1 to the vote. follows: Amendment No 1 is agreed to. "concerning aircraft operating on direct routes between airports located in different We come now to discussion of the proposal for Member States, Member States have the a directive itself. sales option of permitting loading for to speak on the (rest of There are no Members down purposes" ParagraPh Preamble and no amendments to it have been unchanged). tabled.

III. Article 5 Does any one wish to sPeak? The words between brackets in paragraph I Shall I put it to the vote? to read as follows: of this article The Preamble is agreed to. years after the date of adoption by "(three On paragraphs 1 - 3 an amendment, No 2, has the Council)". been tabled by Mr Duval and this reads: I call Mr Duval to spoak to his amendment. Paragraphs 1 to 3 of the motion for a resolution are replaced by the following new paragraphs: Mr Duval. (P) Mr President, the Commis- 'Welcomes the submission of this proposal - question "1. sioner wishes to raise the of whether which embodies the suggestion made on the the Legal Affairs Committee would accept the matter in paragraph 10 of the Ewopean principle phased the of reduction inherent in Parliament's resolution of 7 February 1972; application of the measures to which he refers. I am entirely in favour of this formula, which 2. Invites the Commission to check and, if I do not unfortunately find in the proposal from need be, render more precise the terms the Committee for Finance and Budgets. There employed in respect of air and see transporti clear difference between the levels of is a endorse the exemption, but am reluctantly obliged to note 3. Invites the Commission to I pursuant to Article that this is not so much a matter of the phased following amendments, reduction to which the Commissioner referred, 149(2) of the EEC TreatY;" but rather a specific reduction. I call Mr Duval to speak to his amendment. It is my view that the duty-free allowance can (tr') Presi'dent, my dear col- be reduced gradually from 125 u.a. to 25 u.a. Mr Duval. - Mr However, this cannot be done at a single stroke, leagues, amendment No 2 is a logical extension but year by year until we reach the level recom- of amendment No 1. mended. Amendment No 1 would not be worthwhile With your permission, Mr President, f repeat unless amendment No 2, which is complemen- that, given the present circumstances, I consider tary to it, is agreed to by the House. I therefore that the provisions contained in the third ask for you approval. proposal from the Commission represent an advance, and I cannot accept the conclusions of President. I put amendment No 2 to the vote. the Legal Affairs Committee which invite us - to turn them down. Amendment No 2 is agreed to. I believe that the adoption of my amendment No Members are down to speak on paragraph 4 will lead to an improvement of the situation and no amendments have been tabled. and open the way to further improvement until Does any one wish to speak? we find a formula which is entirely satisfactory to a1l those who will benefit. Paragraph 4 is agreed to. Debates of tJre European Pafüâment

Prestrlent

I put to the vote the motion as arnended by the II. a regulation on the temporary suspension of amendments that have been agreed to. the autonomous duty of the conunon . customs tariff on small halibut (Hippoglos- The resolution as a whole is agreed to.l sus reinhardtius) in zub-heading ex 03.01 B1s)'

6. Regulati,ons on uines ori,gi,nating in Spain (Doc.243172). There is no one down to speak. Presidont. The next item on the agenda is Does any one wish to speak? vote $dthout- debate on the motion in the report drawn up for the Committee on External Trade I put the motion to tJle vote. Relations by Mr Kriedemann on the proposal from the Commission of tÀe European Commun- The resolution is agreed to.1 ities to the Council on: I. a regulation on the opening, allocation and 8. Regulati,on on d,etlni.tton customs administration of Community tariff quotas of the Community for sherry wines comlng under sub-heading territorg of the ex 22.05 of the cornmon customs tariff and originating in Spain; Fresident. The next item is vote without debate on the- motion in the report drawn up II. a regulation on the opening, allocation and for the Committee on External Tbade Relations adtninistration of a Community tariff quota by Mr Kriedemann on the proposal from the for Malaga wines coming under zub-heading Commission of the European Communities to the ex 22.05 of the cotnmon customs tariff and Council for a regulation amending Council originating in Spain; Regulation (EEC) 1496/68 of.27 September 1968 III. a regulation on the opening, allocation and on the definition of the customs territory of the administration of a Community tariff quota Community (Doc. 245172). for Jumilla, Priorato, Rioja and Valdepenas There is no one listed to speak. wines coming under sub-headirrg ex 22.05 of the cornmon customs tariff and originat- Does any one wish to speak? ing in Spain. I put the motion to the vote. @oc.246172) The resolution is agreed to.1 No one is down to speak.

Does one any wlsh to speak? 9. Decisi.on on action to protect Comrnuni,tg liuestoclc I put the motion to the vote. against toot-anil-mouth d,isease The resolution is agreed to.l President. The next item is discussion of the report drawn- up for the Committee on Sociâl Affairs and Health Protection by Mr Durand 7. Regulation on Cornmunitg tariff quota on the proposal from the Commission of the certain for eels and, su,speniling the d,uty on European Communities to the Council for a small hallbut decision on action to protect Community livestock against foot-an-mouth disease @oc. President. - The next item is vote without 258172). debate on the motion tn the report drawn trp for the Committee on External Trade Relatlons Unfortunately the rapporteur is unable to be by Mr Kriedemann on the proposals from the present. Commission of ttre European Communities to the Council for: I call Mr Scott-Hopkins to speak for the Con- ,servative Group. I. a regulation on the opening and allocation of and arrangements for managing the Com- Mr Scott-Hopkins. It makes it a little awk- munity tariff quota for certain t;pes of eels ward for me in that- the rapporteur has not been in sub-heading ex 03.01 A II of the common able to give what would have been I am sure, a custorrrs tariff; lucid explanation of this report.

I OJ No C4 of 14 February 1973. 1 OJ No C4 of 14 February 1973, §tttlng of EHday, 19 January 1973 178

§oott-Eopklns

Ttre regutatione and conditions in force in the country hâs no vaccine policy. If the dread 'United Kingdom dealing with foot-and-mouth. disease of foot-and-mouth breaks out in Great disease are different frotn those within the Com- Britain and the slaughter policy is lmplemented, munity. The Community has a policy of vaccina- will the Community funds be called upon to help tion of animals to prevent and to try to keep in the compensation which must, of course, be down the level of infection. The disease is given when animal§ are slaughtered because.of endemic in Europe. In my country there is a the infection or because they have beeu in policy of slaughter. As soon as foot-and-mouth contact wità infected animals ? I would \ilelcome disease is found on any farm or establishtnent guidance from the Commissioner as to whether all affected animâts and animals whlch have or not this proposal vrill apply for compensa- been fir contâct reith them are imrnedlately tory payments. slaughtered. In paragraph 5 the tecommendation from this In the Treaty of Accession of my country there House to the Council states that we shall work rf,/as â derogation dealing with this subject in firmly towards an overall policy aimed at dealing the veterinary regulations. We shall be allowed effectively with anirnal and plant.liseases. I hope to continue with our policy of slaughter as that this wttl be so and that we shall work Iong as it is efficacious. together as a Community of Ni:re towards this 1970 an important committee, the North- aim, but with the exception always, in my view, In policy urhberland Committee, reported in my country that in an island slaughter is obviously an exten§ively examined the best methods of acceptable means of keeping the disease at its It possible protection against this dreadful disease. Its lowest level. recommertdations to my Government were that With that one exception, I hope the Parliament, we should continue with the slaughtering policy. the Commisslon and the Council of Ministers will I horpe it witl be accepted that there is an take every possible step to accelerate whatever important difference in our approach to this measures are avallable to help in the eradication probleth, and that nothing will happen within of brucellosis, tuberculosis, swlne fever àird, the Communlty to affect our policy ln the indeed, the new swine disease which has just Uhited Kingdom until there has beerr the fullest appeared h my couhtry. I hope we catr'wofk po$siblè investigatlon. Luekily fof us, we do not together on thls matter so that, with the one have to deal with this disease very frequently. êxcêptlon I have mentloned, there wlll be the maxilfium interchange animals and also so I turn now to paragfaph 2 (c), deding with swture of the fear infection one to fever, tubetculosis and brucellosis. There are no that of ftom countfy another caü be elimlnated or kept down the pfoblerts about the first two diesases, and I trust to lowest possible degree. that tÀe Cotrtmision's proposals tor dealtng wtth them wlll fotow the well-acceptêd veterinary I hope the Commission will accept the report's lirres established recenUy whieh have resulted, proposals to speed matters up in this respect 6sffalhly fur rny ou/n Oountry, in the virtual eradi- as in my view, and that of my colleagues, this eâtioh of tuberêulosis in bovlne animals. is an extremely important question.

In my country tnre are in the second phase of an eradication scheme for brucellosis. There are President. - I call Mr Lardinois to inform the various problems with which I will not weary the House of the position of the Commission of the House nou/, such as those of compensation, of European Communities. isolation and of screening by S19 vaccine. All of these problems have to be taken into account iltfl l,6din6la, Member of th,e Çommlssi,on oJ the in implemerrting an eradication policy. European Communi,tle§. (N) Mr President, I should like to clarify the- Comtnission's point of I am hot as au tatt âs I should be with the pollcy view on the report by the Corhmittee on Soclal being putsued in the Communities at present. Affairs and Health Protection. I object to the \[heh he replles, perhaps the Commissioner could Committee's standpoint only with regard to the ouUine in brief how this policy for the eradica- procedural amendment. This is a very old tion of brucellosis in thê CommUhities will be put problem. Because of earlier agreements, the into effect. Commission re§rets that it is unable to accommodate Parliarnent on this point. Subsection (d) notes with satisfaction the proposed measures that are to be implemented irr a I should now like to make a few femarks iTr Commlnity framework and financed out of Com- connection with Mr Scott-Hopkins' intetvehtion. munity resources. This concerns the building up I wlsh to remark that this proposal concerns of exotic vaccines and also the tuberculosis and only an exotic form of foot-and-mouth disease brucellosis scheme. As I have already said, my which has never appeared in the Community Debates of the European Parliament

La,rdlnois

of the Six, or in the three Member States which will be brucellosis-free. In terms of veterinary have joined. It is therefore a measure which manpovrer and time, this is an extremely relates to the possibility that in future this expensive and difficult disease to .combat. exotic form of foot-and-mouth disease may Hovrever, it is very important to do so because appear somewhere in the CommunitSr-Denmark, the human disease contracted from contact with Bavaria, Sicily-no matter where. If this should brucellosis animals is undulant fever, which is occur, it is in the interest of the Community to extremely dangerous to human beings. contain this form of foot-and-mouth disease- which never before has appeared in the Com- I therefore hope the Commissioner will look munity-as rapidly as possible. This will no very seriously at what is happening in my coun- doubt be done not by vaccination in a particular try and examine the aid that I am sure will be district alone, but in combination with the so- necessary from the Commission not only to my called 'stamping-out' method, which vras also country but to the other applicant countries and, applied in the old Community. maybe, to some of the other countries of the Six which I suspect may have more brucellosis This, then, is a combination of the two methods than the Commissioner seerrs to think. previously most commonly used in the Com- munity of the Six. Great Britain has not yet President. I call Mr Lardinois. employed this combined system of 'stamping- - out' and vaccination against foot-and-mouth disease. It is of course not obliged to do so, but 11& f,s1.linois, Member of the Commi,ssi,on of the European Communiti,es. (F) Mr President, it could in future adopt such a combined method. - This is possible under British Law. what I have said has apparently led to some misunderstanding. I must blame myself for this As to payment of the costs of normal measures in the first instance. against animal disease, this system is not yet applied in the Communit5r in relation to the I certainly do not think that solving the brucel- fight against foot-and-mouth disease or brucellosis problem is an easy matter. In this connec- losis. As present the situation in the attack on tion I have merely said the following: In three brucellosis varies from State to State within Member States of the present Communit5r there the Community. In the Community of the Six is no longer brucellosis among cattle. One of my there was no brucellosis among cattle in three officials has just told me that this is also the countries, namely Germany, the Netherlands case in a fourth country. Those four Member and Luxembourg. In Belgium the problem was States are: Germany,,Denmark the Netherlands solved in 90 per cent of the territory. In the and Luxembourg. This has required enorrnous other two Member States-as in the three new effort on the part of these countries and has Member States-the problem remains unsolved. also cost a great deal of money. In the other Member States of the Community the fight against brucellosis is still goiag strong. One President. I call Mr Scott-Hopkins. - country is further advanced in this than another. I have quoted the example of Belgium. Mr Scott-Hopkins. Mr President, with the That country is free of brucellosis in almost 90 greatest respect, I am- absolutely astonished to per cent of its territory. In tr'rance very great have heard from the Commissioner that no efforts are being made. attack has been made on brucellosis. I am sure the Commissioner will be aware that in my I am very pleased to hear that it is estimated country for the last 18 months now we have that Great Britain will be free of this rlisease been making the most vigorous attack upon in 1976. This will cost a great deal of money. brucellosis. The large amount of Ê25 million is I will have enquiries made into what the Com- being paid out in compensâtion. AII manner of munity can do in onder to coordinate efforts, other methods are also being used to attack this especially for those countries which are not yet nasty disease. completely free of brucellosis. At any event, I am extremely pleased that Great Britain I am delighted to hear how extremely well this wishes to learn what has happened hitherto in disease has been contained in the old Com- the other countries of the Community. s1rrnif,}r of the Six and to know there is so little of it. I wish to assure the Commissioner that President. Does anyone else wish to speak? when we got down to this in my country and - the screening of the S19 vaccine was removed, I put the motion to the vote. a great deal more brucellosis occurred in our The resolution is agreed to.l herds than we had first supposed. W'e are novr working towards the situation where by 1976, but not until then, the majority of our herds r OJ No C4 of 14 February 1973. Sittlng of EHday, 19 January 1973 175

10. Regulati.ons on d.rt'ed tigs and rai'sins 12. Regutati,on on ct'trws frui't imports frorn the ori,gi.nating in SPai.n Arab Republi'c of EggPt without Fresident. The next item is vote without President. The next item is vote - report drawn up debate on the- motion in the report drawn up debate on the motion in the by Mr Vetrone Committee on Agriculture by Mr Vrede- for the Committee on Agriculture for the the ling on the proposals from the Commission of on the proposal from the Commission of the Council on im- the European Communities to the Council for: European Communities to ports of citrus fruits from the Arab Republic I. a regulation on the opening, allocation and of Egypt (Doc.263172). Community tarilf quota administration of a There are no speakers listed. for pre-packed dried figs originating in Spain, with a net weight of 15 kg or less, under Does anyone wish to sPeak? heading ex 08.03 B of the common customs I put the motion to the vote. tariff The resolution is agreed to.2 II. a regulation on the opening, allocation and administration of a Community tariff quota foÈ pre-packed raisins, originating in Spain, !3. Regulation on i.mports oJ ri'ce trom the with a net weight of 15 kg or less, under Arab RePublic oJ E§YPï heading 08.04 B I of the colrlmon customs tariff President. The next item is vote without - the report drawn up (Doc. 250172) debate on the motion in for the Committee on Agriculture by Mr Vetrone There are no speakers listed. on the proposal from the Commission of the European Communities to the Council on im- Does anyone wish to speak? ports of rice from the Arab Republic of Egypt (Doc.264172). I put the motion to the vote. There are no speakers listed. The resolution is agreed to.1 Does anyone wish to sPeak? I put the motion to the vote. ll. Regutation on procluction and markettng of The resolution is agreed to.'? ci,trus truits-regulation on procesnng certain uarietles oJ orange 14. Regulation on certain Ji'sherg prod,ucts Fresident, The next item is report drawn up for the Committee- on Agriculture by Mr Baas President. The next item is vote without on the proposal from the Commission of the debate on the- motion in the report drawn up European Communities to the Council for: for the Committee on Agriculture by Mr Kriede- marur on the proposal from the Commission of I. a regulation amending (EEC) Regulation No the European Communities to the Council for a 2511169 laying down special measures for regulation amending the common customs tariff the improving production and marketing in foi certain fishery products @oc.269172). Community citrus fruit sector. There are no speakers listed. II. a regulation amending (EEC) Regulation No Does anyone wish to sPeak? 260L169 laying down special measures to encourage the processing of certain varieties I put the motion to the vote. of orange The resolution is agreed to.2 @oc.249172\ There are no speakers listed. 15. Regulati,on on the measures to be taken in agri,culture to retlect the monetarE sttuation Does anyone wish to speak? I put the motion to the vote. Fresident. The next item on the agenda is discussion of- the report drawn up for the Com- The resolution is agreed to.1 mittee on Agriculture by Mr Héger on the pro-

1OJ No gl of 14 February 1973, B OJ No C4 of 14 Februa.ry 1973. 1?6 Debates of tàe Europead pafllanent

PreslilenÉ

posal from the Commission of the European Ttre outcorne of this was Regulation g?4, which Communities to the Council for a regulation provides for the granting of compensation to g74l7t amending Regulation (F,FIC) for the pur- counter the effects of fluctuation. However, poses of measures to be taken for the new rather optimistically-and far be it from me to Member States in agriculture to reflect their criticize anyone for being optimistic-this rule monetary situation (Doc. 270172). only covered upward movements. There was I call Mr Héger to present his report. therefore no provision for the situation whiclr arose when the Chancellor of the Exchequer stated last December pound Mr Eéger, Rapporteur, (F) president, that tàe would Mr I contihue to float after the entry of'Great Britain should like to thank my- colleagues their for into the Community; we already knew that the patience in waiting until this late hour and tell Treaty of Accession provides for trade in agri- them that I shall try to set out the problem as Cultural products from I February next at price briefly as possible: there is a time and place a levels different from those obtaining for eloquence, but, with lunchtime in the Com- approaching, munity, but which must be brought this is certainly not one of them! into line \Àdthin the next four years. The problem before us is a fairly straightforward one, although it relates to an extremely It was therefore necessary to amend Regulation complex overall situation. 974 to allow for compensations in the case of downward movements. The Community is confronted with a slighfly unusüal problem by the entry of our neu/ This would enable the Commission to implement friends: the floating of the pound sterling and compensation of accession', that is compensation the lrish pound; there is not the same problem designed to cover the differences between the with the Danish kronê, which has a fixed parity. prices obtaining in the new Member States and in the former Community of the Six, and at the We are not short of precedent in the matter of same time to introduce measures for monetary monetary upsets. With more time at my disposal, compensation. This problem is extremely would review I them for you. complex and a detailed technical exchange of Ttrere was the devaluation of the French franc views on the subject, on which I do not propose in 1969. It was of course necessary, on that to expand here, was held during the .liseussion occasion, to adopt corhpensatory measures to by the Committee on Agriculture. avoid distortions of competition: a number of However, a second course was open to export levies and import subsidies. the Com- mission. Instead of using monetary compensadon In the same year, 1969, there was also the and 'compensation of accession' in parallel, it revaluation of the Deutschmark. Here, in addi- could combine the two tytrles of measure. The tion to the two types of compensation affecting second solution was the one favoured bÿ the exports and imports, a fixed amount of com- Commission. pensation was set for the years 1971, lg?2 and 1973. Since agricultural prices are always valued This is a wide-ranging and complex problem, in units of account, the revaluation of the but it is also an urgent one. TLre Commission Deutschmark meant a reduction of prices to far- voted a week ago, last tr'riday evening. I was mers in the Federal Republic of Germany. The kindly notified, and the Committee on Agricul- Community granted the Federal Government an ture met on Monday and approved the motion amount of money for lt to distribute according before you today. judgment to its own as compensation for this I do not propose to go through loss. As we it now, but know, although this method of merely stress that the Committee on Agriculture compensation should, irt theory, have been approved it unanimously. satisfactory to those eoncerned, in practice, this system caused a certain degree of bitterness. In this resolution, we resign ourselves to accepting the proposal Next the Deutschmark and guilder from the Commission, beiag of the Dutch the opinion was 'floated'-an inappropriate tertn, that the combination of monetary if ever compensation and there was one, but there has always been 'compensation of accession' a will serve to simplify operations. number of barbarisms in the terminology favoured by our institutions, both the Commission In this context, the Commission has taken as its and the Parliament. llhe Benelux countries were basis a sort of artificial parity of the pound of divided on this issue. But the Belgians, with 0.82 per cent which was arrived at on the basis their usual sympathy for their neighbours, soon of the actual exchange rate obtaining during the accepted the floating, as did the Grand Duchy first two weeks of the month of January this of Luxembourg. year. There are those who will immediately say: Sittine of Friday, 19 Januery 1973 t77

Eéger

what urill happen if the rate of exchange of the in front of me, I would say to hirn: 'since your pound changes again during the coming weeks or responsibilities include the safeguarding of the months? Clearly, if there were to be substantial environment, could you ask your staff to cal- fluctuations, it would be necessary to review the culate how many hundreds of hectares of forest decision taken, or at aII events, adjust the levels land are bled white to make the mountains of of , compensation accordingly. paper we use nowadays?' It has been necessary to make these arrange- To avoid prolonging the debate, I shall end on ments in some haste and with a degree of im- this note, with a unanimous recommendation provisation, and the same is true of my report. from the Committee on Agriculture that this House egree to the resolution before it. spoke a moment ago about our resigning our- I (Applause) selves, and should like to explain this very briefly. We have already had a great number of regulations,arising out of monetary problems. Preqident. - I call Mr Scott-Hopkias to speak As has been said in this House, agriculture has for the Conservative Group. taken a lead over the economic, financial and social sectors in the EEC, but these monetary Mr Scott-Hopkias. (E) May lfirst congratulate problems are harmful to the farmers in that the rapporteur, Mr- Héger, not only on the way they undermine the confidence which they have he has presented the report but also on his great placed in the development of the Community. grasp of the complexities which exist in this fietd. I have now had the pleasure of hearing All this has been caused by the failure of our him speak twice on this matter. My appreciation efforts hitherto to achieve Monetary Unionl I and knowledge of the workings of the Com- do not know whether the latest meetings of the munity regulations have been greatly facilitated Ministers of Finance are sufficiently encouraging by the way in which he has presented the to enable us to hope to see Monetary Union in problem. the near future. I know that undertakings have been given. I hope that they will be fulfilled, It is perhaps a little awkward that during the and particularly that the timetable laid down first session when one is here the difficulty of is adhered to. Hswever, if it becomes apparent the floating of the f should be one of the issues before very long that the parity of the pound of importance and, indeed, urgency. When the cannot be fixed, we shall be obliged to ask the United Kingdom joined the Community we Commission to review this regulation and allow accepted in full the working of the Common us to examine it in detail, not to try to achieve Agricultural Policy. Nobody is more aware than the impossible, but with a view to simplifying I am of the necessity, for the smooth working the situation somewhat. of the Common Agricultural Policy, for a fixed From time to time, we hear disturbing news of rate of exchange between the various currencies involved the Community to facilitate court cases concerning frauds. I refer to major within payments and taxes. frauds benefiting unscrupulous speculators from import levies, compensatory fact accepted. which the exchequers of all our countries and That is a which we have tfe Community suffer. However, only some of Last year, for reasons which are not for me to these frauds are detected, many are never go into no$r, my country had to float the f. discovered. Moreover, the more regulations there This has presented us with problems. Thts is are and the more complicated they become, the why I support so strongly the first paragraph further we fall into the error of acute 'per- of the Recommendation now before us, that fectionitis', the more we lay ourselves open to we should work-and we hope we shall work fraud. monetary union at the earliest -towards Let me say from long experience that this moment. 'perfectionitis' is a serious ailment for our Com- The motion stresses the conviction that any munity. It is sapping our strength. delay is liable to endanger the future of the Our resistance is at a low ebb, and we are in European Economic Community. I am reinforced danger of being suffocated by paper. We are in that view by the communiqué issued after being submerged by an avalanche of paper and, the Paris Summit Conference held at the end soon, very few of the Members in this Par1ia- of 1972. ment will be able to keep up with all the docu- appreciate the diffi- ments from the the Council and this Having said that, I fully Commission, position today. The fact that the House. culty of the Community has in the past had the experlence ln a moment of flippancy recently, I said that of dealing with upwards revaluations and the if I had Mr Commissioner Scarascia Mugnozza floating of the three currencies makes it easier 178 Debates of the European Parliament

§cott-Eopktns

for them and for Members of this House to be a fixed parity in the near future, but the appreciate and understand how this problem prerogative so to do is in no way prejudged by can be dealt with. the acceptance of the Commission's proposal of.2.3499. A solution has been proposed to solve the problem presented by having two levels of mone- In conclusion, f accept the proposals which are tary compensation and a third level called by being put forward by the Commission and by the rapporteur the 'compensation of accession'. the rapporteur, and I hoile this House will accept It means that cumbersome, teüous calculations them. will have to be done on spot rates day by day. The solution proposed is good and workable. President. I call Sir Brandon Rhys-Williams. So far as the Conservative Group is concerned, - I accept what has been proposed by the Com- Sir Brandon Rhys-Williarisr - (E) I wish to sup- mission, a rate of 2.3499 as the arithmetical port my colleague and also to congratulate the figure which was arrived at by taking the mid- rapporteur on his mastçrly and very balanced day figure of the first two weeks in January. introduction of the subject. I realise from This should be the figure used in the calcu- conversations I have had in Strasbourg this week lations of the compensatory payments for how much anxiety is caused to colleagues in intra-Community trade between the United this House by the continued uncertainty about Kingdom, Ireland and the rest of the Commu- the exehange rate of the f,,, and I would like to nity. Denmark has a fixed parity spôt rate. T'hat convey to colleagues here that in London it is has eased matters so far as it is concerned. very well understood that the need for stability There has been a great deal of anxiety, certainly is really paramount and particularly important in my country, among the agricultural com- for people who are planning ahead in .munity, concerning the compensatory payrments agriculture. on those products concerning which negotiations The British Goverament are anxious to a have already been concluded. There is continu- follow good neighbour policy in regard to the Ê. We ing anxiety naturally until the outcome of the ran embarrassingly 1970 negotiations concerning the remaining items an large surplus in are and 1971, and measures have known later this month or next month. been taken to bring our current account into better balance. This is a vital point now. If the new rate of There are many forecasters who say that we 2.3499 to the f, is going to be a realistic rate- shall now have a serious deficit in 1973, but that and I accept that it is-this will make a dif- deficit will by no means be outside the capacity ference to the farming community. of our reseryes to meet. While there remains that uncertainty, the British Government must One thing we must ensure as a Parliament when have a degree of flexibility in fixing the we are talking about these compensatory exchange rate. amounts is that the income of our farming community is not adversely affected, and, It is only this week that the Prime Minister clearly, this will not be the case in what is introduced a major package of measures to being proposed by the Commission now. control inflation which are more stringent and more preeise than have been tried, I believe, I will not deal with the other side of it, the in any other country in the Community. consumer side, as it is not directly relevant to However, this package is still before Parliament, the motion and the resolution in front of us. and it is also too early to judge the reaction Therefore, on behalf of the Conservative Group, of the markets. I accept the Commission's proposals and the resolutions which have been put forward by the Sterling is particularly susceptible to sudden Committee on Agriculture. I believe it is, in the movements of short-term capital. We learned circumstances of today, the right course to take. last summer that it is easy for sums of up to a However, I must emphasise that the freedom thousand million pounds to be removed from 'of action of the Chancellor of the Exchequer London in the course of a single day. Pressures of my country is in no way prejudiced by this of that sort inevitably mean the authorities must proposal from the Commission, which may or have every weapon possible at their disposal if may not be accepted before February by the a reasonably stable market is to be maintained. Council of Ministers. He, of course, can and will The Smithsonian settlement, which brought a fix the future rate of sterling as he wishes. degree of stability to exchange rates, uras at what time he wishes. undoubtedly premature for the Ê, and it is true Like the rest of the honourable Members of to say that that goes for some other currencies, this House, I express the hope that there will too. We must also work together to draw up Sitting of Friday, 19 January 1973 t19

Sir Brantlon Ehys-Iüilliams fixed and comprehensible conventions about atç a proposal for the Committee on Agriculture. this important formula which has come from \Me had to work quickly therefore. The various the Summit Conference, namely, that parities Groups had to take up their positions in short should be fixed but adjustable. Serious discus- order. However, there was, unfortunately, no sions must continue about the way in which this choice. The Commission did what it could. As I formula is to be applied. understand it the Committee on Agriculture has no criticism here. For my part, I have nothing I would like to say how strongly it is recognised but praise, especially for my ex-colleague Mr in London that our partners in the Community Héger, who, fortunately, is not unacquainted are urgently waiting for the fixing of the Ê. with this material and had been able to worh It is one of the Britistr Government's principal on it. priorities. In the meantime, the transitional solution recommended by the Commission seems With regard to what he has said concerning the realistic because it is likely to provide a working perfectionism which §ometimes finds expression basis, from day to day, week to week, possibly in some regulations, I personally agree with him. even month to month, which will give the In the coming years we ought to consider to simplest system of administration and a degree what extent it may be possible to reduce the of stability to the agricultural community which quantities of paper we use, or even to simplifry is welcome to us all. our existiag regulations.

Mr Héger himself knows from his own experi- President. I call Mr Lardinois. - ence that the Commission's proposals, which are not of the simplest anyway, become even more the Mr Lardinois, Member of the Commi,ssion oJ complicated in the Council through aII the European Communi,ties. (E) Mr President, specific requirements which individual members may I begin by thanking -the rapporteur, my feel obliged to state. If this already complicated ex-colleague, Mr Héger, verÿ much indeed and mechanism becomes even more so, because in compliment him on the manner in which he fact the unit of account fails, then at a certain has presented the matter. Through him, I wish moment we are in great danger. I agree com- also to thank the Committee on Agriculture, pletely with Mr Héger on this point. I fervently who have been found willing to tackle this hope, therefore, that it may be granted to us problem in such a short time, so that the Council that the Ministers of Finance and Budgets and can avoid beiag faced with a fait accompli. It of Economic Affairs make progress with would otherwise have been impossible to reach a Monetary Union; otherwise the agricultural decision at Council level on Monday or Tuesday system will become inoperable with a1l that this next. Now the regulation can come into effect would entail for the Community. on 1 February. Mr President, I appreciated Mr Scott-Hopkins' 'What is the case? The Commission is not a little introduction very much indeed. I would say to surprised by this question. Just before Christmas him explicitly that the British Government's the British Government let it be known that, in freedom of action to fix the level of the Ê will spite of certain undertakings, the floating of indeed be unaffected by the proposal. We have the Ê would not be ended before 1st January. even anticipated that the floating of the Ê, which The British Government was of the opinion that is at present at nearly 10 per cent, will settle in therefore the agricultural regulations should be a month or so at a higher or lower percentage. modified before 1 February. It could, for instance, be 129/o or P/0. To this end we have an automatic adjustment in our Eleven days ago I took up my duties, or rather, regulations provided it is a matter of a differ- that was when I began work with the services ence of 10io with the present percentage. Taking entrusted to me. That was a week ago on it that this percentage rests at the moment at Monday. One of the first problems to come 10, it means that the compensating amounts will before me v/as this document. I needed 24 hours not change as long as the § floats between 90/o to be able to make up my mind which of the and 110i0. If it goes above 11o/o or below S/0, the three proposed methods should be put to the Commission and its services have at their Commission. The Commission was able to make disposal a system with which they can regulate a decision the same week. A day before the the matter. I hope, however, together with the Commission took its decision we gave an explan- British Members, that the f, will not remain ation in the Committee on Agriculture. My ex- floating for too tong. I cannot give a date for colleague, Mr Héger, was extremely kind and this, but I believe that we agree that this term immersed himself in the material as early as should be as short as possible. I do hope that Iast Friday. This Monday he was able to elabor- the British Government will succeed in this. Debates of the Europoan Parllement

Lardinois

I will not mention names or dates because this Is there any objection? would possibly not have the deslred effect. It is so agreed. I am grateful to Sir Brandon Rhys-Williams fol his further expla4ation on the present Brttish economic situation. I have nothing to add to that. 17. Approual of the rni.nutes Mr President, thank Parliament in particular I President. In accordance with RuIe 1?(2) of the manner has for in which it been willing to the Rules of- Frocedure, f have to submit to Par- problem deal with this difficult and for the liament, for its approval, minqtes of this approval the which it has expressed for the Commis- sitting which have been kept in the course of sion's proposals. the discussions. there President. - Does any one wish to speak? Is any objection? I put the motion to the vote. The minutes are approved. The resolution is agreed toJ L8, Ad,journrnent of the session

16, Dates for the neæt part-session Presidont. I declare the session of the European Parliament adjourned. proposes President. The enlarged Bureau The sitting is closed. that the next- part-session be held in Luxem- bourg in the week from 12 to 16 February 1973. (The ntti.ng usas closeil at 72.45 p.m.)

1O, No e, of 14 February 1973,